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John Boccacino: Hello, and welcome back to the Cuse Conversations Podcast. My name is John Boccacino, the Communications Specialist in Syracuse University's Office of Alumni Engagement. I'm also a 2003 graduate of the S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications with a degree in broadcast journalism. I am so glad you found our podcast.

Well folks, today on the podcast, we are pleased to welcome out Patrick Garrigan who graduated in 2001 from VPA with a degree in musical theater. Now you hear that degree, what I'm going to tell you that he does, it's vastly different, but there's a lot of similarities to it. He's going to give us introductions into his career, how he made the transition. He currently serves as the Global Head of Bloomberg Live. He's worked for the Atlantic. He's worked for Politico. He's got a great communications- based career. And Patrick is our guest today on the podcast. Thank you so much for making the time.

Patrick Garriga...: Thanks so much for having me. I'm delighted to be here.

John Boccacino: It's always one of those meta kind of concepts when you bring a communicator on to a communicating platform like a podcast. But I thought this was a perfect fit to bring you on. And for those that are listening, Patrick is going to be part of a key panel discussion on November 18th for alumni. It's technically geared towards alumni in the DMV, the DC, Maryland, Virginia area, but anybody can sign up for this program about careers in communications and the communications sector. If you go to alumni.syr.edu/virtual, you can register for this program by searching again for The Success in DC, Maryland, Virginia Program. Patrick, what made you interested in a career in communications?

Patrick Garriga...: Yeah, no, it's very funny. I was looking back over because we're ... we've had a lot of spare time during the COVID seclusion here in our house and so going over some old materials. And I was looking through my old from doing theater at high school. And one of the things that came out of there is, I plan on going to school for either advertising and communications or theater. And it just so turned out that that was very prescient. And I ended up kind of landing in careers in both. So, I think that's kind of always been the trajectory. And I went to visit Syracuse when I was still in high school and exploring musical theater programs. And just the first day on campus, I was like, this is where it's going to be. And it's kind of been a very exciting ride and a very, very non-linear ride ever since.

John Boccacino: You were telling me before we started recording, your current job with Bloomberg, you took up right before the pandemic occurred. How has your career, how has your job been impacted and affected by the pandemic?

Patrick Garriga...: Absolutely. No, it's a really great question. I started, exactly as you alluded to, at Bloomberg live on March 2nd. I basically found out where the bathrooms were and where the snacks were located, got a chance to meet some of my wonderful colleagues before we were all sent home. And so, what was a really kind of challenging, but also kind of exciting time was we had to basically reinvent what

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live events were like in the virtual space within the first 72 hours in the role. So, it was being as enterprising and creative as we possibly could, understanding what was unique about Bloomberg in terms of the way that we do our reporting, our data, our insights, the global perspectives, and the way that people experience our work normally across .com and print across the Bloomberg terminal, and being able to bring all of those things to life. So using those as kind of our unique alchemy and make that transition very, very fast.

John Boccacino: When you hear the title Global Head of Bloomberg Life, what exactly would you say that you do and are your key functions?

Patrick Garriga...: Oh, absolutely. It is is something that has been a tremendous experience. When I was at the Atlantic, we'd have to tell incredible stories, but a lot of that was largely US-based with amplification out into Europe to a certain extent, but coming into Bloomberg where we are a 20,000 person operation, it truly is a global enterprise. So, we have teams deployed all around the world with operational hubs in Hong Kong, London, and New York. But being able to tell those stories across all of those different geographies and bringing the fact that we have the largest newsroom in the world to tell those stories.

I really see my mandate is elevating the sort of journalism that people are doing every single day. Telling that in the live space is a unique model and it's ... there are a lot of tools and techniques that I learned from my time at Syracuse that I amplify in that work every single day. And so it's, how are you telling the story to unique audiences, and now in this era of COVID on unique platforms, and helping it kind of live long after that conversation specifically has wrapped.

John Boccacino: It seems like during COVID there is ... would you agree that there's more of a demand for on-demand content and especially the live part of it too? People want to know what's happening, where it's happening. How has the coverage of the news and what's newsy to people, how has that changed with Bloomberg since you've started?

Patrick Garriga...: Absolutely. I mean, we've noticed a very ... a seismic shift in terms of just the psychology of news consumers, right? I think if you would have said, "Come to my virtual event," in a previous life, people have been like, "Oh no, that's stale. That's boring. There's not going to be any news value there." I think what we've seen specifically at Bloomberg Live is people are seeing these as destinations to get those immediate insights from the newsmakers that perhaps they would go to a big convening that Bloomberg Live was throwing in person that they're now saying, "Well, I'm going to find this and watch it live so we can get those perspectives firsthand." And because we're all juggling so many things across ... whether that's family, whether that is work commitments, whether those are social commitments, that we're trying to juggle our schedules as well. And so, I think the fact that folks have evolved to engage with these virtual platforms on an on-demand basis.

We were chatting before we got started about the tremendous growth that you

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found on podcasts. We're experiencing a very similar thing in that people are finding new ways to engage with content. And the fact that you quite literally have captive audiences who are hungry for these insights and these perspectives to make decisions about their lives, about their organizations, about the communities in which they operate, getting these insights in a way that is very urgent has never been more important and we're seeing that register across all of our different touch points in the Bloomberg media ecosystem.

John Boccacino: But what a time to be alive and what a time to be in media, with the pandemic, with this hotly contested election that we're dealing with. And there's a lot of concern about the accuracy of news, fake news, misinformation. How does Bloomberg Live go about trying to break through the clutter, if you will, to let people know that it's a reputable, trustworthy news organization? How do you kind of fight through that?

Patrick Garriga...: Yeah, no. I mean, it is a really interesting time right now. I think you hit the nail on the head in that in some ways people can kind of choose their own adventure in terms of the media that they're consuming. And so, with that comes, I think, a responsibility on the part of the consumer to understand what they're listening to or reading or watching and being able to contextualize that. But I think specifically for Bloomberg, we really see ourselves as kind of safe harbor for telling these really important stories in a way that is truly nonpartisan, that is very straightforward, that is very data driven, which is core to our work. And using the data to tell the story and not going beyond that, really being kind of straightforward in just the facts. And I think, again, and especially in this ecosystem, there is incredible hunger for those sorts of perspectives that are as direct, clear, crisp, and data backed as possible. And we see that reflected across our audiences and the growth that we've seen specifically during this period.

John Boccacino: Yeah, it's really impressive. I'm just looking at some of your information here on the Bloomberg Live website. You've seen a 60% growth in your audience. You've seen attendees from 45 different countries, more than 3,500 companies represented. It's clearly branched out and experienced a lot of growth and we've talked about one of the reasons for that is people are home more, they're working from home, maybe they don't have as many commute so they're connected more to their news sources. How have you tried to ... has there been a change in strategy for delivering that content to people that maybe don't have different ways to access it like they used to before the pandemic?

Patrick Garriga...: Yeah. I think that the imperative, especially since a lot of companies specifically in the media space have made a similar transition, we've found that the imperative to make this work newsworthy, to make it urgent, and to make it must see TV in some instances, that we are in this virtual world, specifically in this marriage of both the live event space and the TV space, which again is something that Bloomberg really excels at and that we were well positioned for. So, I think when you are using those conditions, it helps to inform and provide direction towards how you're telling the story, how you're providing insights that are useful for people.

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And then editorially the fact that we have our own newsroom, our own editorial team that is baked into the Bloomberg Live team, we're able to think specifically about how we're telling stories for this format, which again is something that is different and distinct. There is an immediate feedback loop in the work that we're doing. And so, we're excited to tell those stories in a way that is geared specifically to those audiences. And then using functionality like Q & A and polls etc. to have in that urgent feedback loop, to be able to make sure that we are serving our audiences as best we possibly can. And taking it back to kind of my roots in the theater world, having that connection to your audience is essential. And I think a lot of those core attributes tie back to the work that I'm doing at Bloomberg Live today.

John Boccacino: What is it ... What makes a compelling story in your opinion? We always talk about the storytellers and people want something that holds their attention. But break it down for us. What really makes something riveting that I'm going to want to tune into?

Patrick Garriga...: Yeah, no, I think about that a lot, especially in a world like Bloomberg, where we have a global data set that we're able to draw from. And I think what makes that work really compelling, and in terms of how we're showing up in that space, is that we have the data and the perspectives to tell these incredible macro stories, right? What are the trends that you're seeing? What are the opportunities? Where is there incredible disruption? And being able to see the data sets to be able to animate those stories. But then going down and lensing down and say, "All right, well, we know what this macro narrative is because we can see this through the visualizations that we're doing every day. What does an individual data point mean?" And that's where I'm really curious about right, is using that data and those insights to tell these broad stories, but then to say, "What does that mean on issues of diversity and inclusion in workforces and across the entire spectrum of industries? What does that mean in the role of technology and how that's impacting how we're connecting with one another, how we're working during these disassociated times?"

That's the stuff that I think makes it vivid, makes it crisp, and gives both the narrative that people can connect with, what I kind of see as kind of connecting at the heart, but then being able to provide the data, the insights and the perspectives to say, "This is not just sentiment, there's actually real facts and real reporting behind this to reinforce that work." And I think that's where we really exist in a way that is special. And again, how you're telling these in ways that are not just someone's opinion, but are really, truly backed by a set of perspectives and research and insights to be able to reaffirm kind of why this is on this trajectory.

John Boccacino: There's been a ton of these virtual events that you've held. Give us a couple that really stand out as far as being impactful and meaningful and really resonated with the audience.

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Patrick Garriga...: Absolutely. No, it's a great question. I mean, when we had to do that pivot, like I said, the first 72 hours on the job we had to re-imagine entirely what Bloomberg Live was, which is both terrifying and absolutely thrilling. And when I did that, I wanted to go back ... and you asked this question when we started on this idea of what does it mean to be the Global Head of Bloomberg Live? Is I really wanted to distill it down to what makes us unique. And I think at its core, it is the fact that we are a truly global news organization in some ways that we are reporting around the clock in so many places. How do I bring that sense of intensity that, that incredible metabolism to the virtual event space?

So, one of our first right out of the gate was one that we did called Bloomberg Invest Global. And the aim of this was really animate that story as we are truly endemic to the institutional investor in terms of the reporting that we do. How do we celebrate that work? So, one of my favorite still to this day, this is back in late June, was Invest Global, where we did an hour of programming at 1:00 PM every day in Hong Kong, Dubai, London, and New York for three days straight. So, basically what that meant, John, is I didn't sleep for 75 hours. But what it really was an incredible moment to hear from some of the big thought leaders across the institutional investing community, across academia, across media, about some of the big perspectives that were happening by virtue of the incredible disruption that we felt because of COVID.

So, in addition to bringing these incredible narratives to the floor, we made a ton of news over that period because we were able to animate these stories during this time, and again, deliver that with the backing of the people who are at the heads of these institutions to be able to make that really relevant. And then, as you alluded to, the fact that we were able to stream that across all of the different platforms across the Bloomberg terminal, across .com, across social. So, it was able to actually expand outside of the virtual environment to have real reach and real impact. So, that's what I'm still particularly proud of.

The other is, I think, especially at Bloomberg, we have an incredible investment in green solutions against climate change and sustainability. And so, being able to animate our Bloomberg Green Festival, where to date, I think it is still probably one of the most audacious kind of virtual undertakings to date, where we did five days, we did over 44 hours of programming across an entire week, animating big themes across science and data, across culture, across politics and power, across the role of corporate communities and being an impact force for changing ... for helping to combat climate change. And so, it was just an incredible sense of purpose behind the work that we were doing. And then being able to tell that in a variety of different ways, including one-on-one interviews. We had a performance by Sting. Just finding the ... again, leveraging the tools that we have at our disposal to tell really interesting stories.

And then the last one I would say was one that we wrapped at the end of September, which is the Bloomberg Equality Summit, which was really just taking a day and talking about the role of equality and taking issues that run the gamut from

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housing, to education, to fiscal policy, to inclusion in workforces, and really being able to animate those across the day with some incredible leaders, Alyssa Milano, John Legend. LL Cool J was one of my personal favorites from the day. But again, just talking about obviously the business imperative of thinking of issues of equity, but also the moral and the societal implications of that and taking a really kind of 360 degree look at that. Because I think especially during this moment, it's so important to lean in and prioritize these issues. And so, that was one that I was incredibly proud of. So again, as you alluded to it, it hasn't been a long tenure to date but we've been able to do some really remarkable things by just seizing the moment and telling stories unique to each of those topic areas.

John Boccacino: When you talk about your story, and I mentioned this during your introduction, but it's ... what's really fascinating to me is your career arc. How did you go from studying musical theater here at Syracuse ... now, granted there is a live aspect of the events with Bloomberg. You could call that an event and a performance, but connect the dots for us. How did you go from being a musical theater major to now being Global Head of Bloomberg Live?

Patrick Garriga...: Yeah, no, it's a great story. I was telling you before we were getting started, is I was ... I feel very fortunate, specifically when I was at The Atlantic, to host students from Syracuse during immersion week. And I finished the presentation to talk about the journey that we're about to go on. And at the end of it, one of the students raised their hand and she said, "This is really great. And you have a degree in musical theater. How do you have this job?" Which was both like delightful, but also just it made me actually take that moment to reflect. And I think my life has always been about telling stories in the live space. That's always kind of what has given me that sense of excitement, that let's put on a show aspect to it.

But as you allude to, I was a musical theater major when I was at Syracuse, had just an incredible time there. I really can't speak highly enough about my experience at Syracuse. I credit Rodney Scott Hudson almost every day. He was one of my professors while I was there and I would say I literally quote him on a weekly basis in team meetings and in outward stakeholder groups. But I had the good fortune of graduating from Syracuse with a job. I got the touring cast of Titanic. And I got to travel from Maine to Alaska and everywhere in between. It was just an incredible opportunity. So, I was able to do that for a good deal of time and did off-Broadway and regional and experimental theater in New York. And then, it's interesting, I just ... I think that for me, the dream of what I wanted to be and how I wanted to tell stories changed.

So, I migrated into experiential marketing. It was actually, I was doing some project management work in between theater gigs, and I really got excited by, again, thinking about different tools and delivering experiences for people. And so, I did 10 years doing experiential marketing in for an organization called the Michael Allen group, working largely with lifestyle and entertainment brands. It was just an incredible ride because I would walk through Times Square and literally just be so thrilled because I would look at all the billboards and say, I've worked

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with literally every brand that I see in this space right now. So, it was just such an exciting time.

I did that for 10 years, like I said, and then my wife was pregnant with our first child and we wanted a change of scenery. And so, I was like, well, what am I going to do now? I've been doing 10 years experiential marketing, and I'd always been something of a political junkie. I'd love, especially as you said alluding to the election going on, that was always something that was really exciting to me. And so, there was an opportunity to serve as Director of Events at Politico. And so we moved down to DC, again, thinking about how we're telling the stories around politics policy, and the characters behind it.

And then I worked at The Atlantic shortly after that, and I did five and a half years or so at The Atlantic, again, covering a much broader array of topics, but being able to work firsthand with incredible writers, incredible intellects, being able to tell folks that I was doing an event with Ta-Nehisi Coates, and hearing firsthand from this person who's just doing such incredible work, and being able to grow incredibly remarkable events from The Atlantic Festival and Aspen Ideas, City Lab, a number of others.

So it was, again, not a linear path by any stretch of the imagination. But I think this idea of approaching things with a sense of A, storytelling and narrative, of what is the arc of the journey, whether you're a consumer, whether you're a theater goer, whether you are a media enthusiast, and being able to think about those things in terms of how can we make this as vivid and audacious and go really from the what is possible to what is probable to what is practical and how do we activate these things? And I think being able to have that theater training and run all of these different kind of career segments through those filters has given me the incredible gift of being able to tell these stories in unique ways with the tools that present themselves.

John Boccacino: You know, Patrick, I have to be honest, I had to Google experiential marketing to kind of get a sense of ... I could lie and say, "Oh, I knew what that word is." I had no idea what that experience was and for our listeners, experiential marketing basically creates these experiences between the brands and the consumers. And I can see when I read that description, your personality jumps off the page, jumps off the screen at me.

Patrick Garriga...: I will tell you, John, I've got ... I have the good fortune of ... in concert with my work with the experiential firm there, I hold several world's ... Guinness Book of Records. We had the world's largest cannoli Christmas tree, the world's largest cardboard box. But again, being able to do Times Square takeovers and just build incredibly audacious things, going on national tours, pop-up shops, stunts, custom art installations. Again, it was really just what is kind of ... so often our conversations will begin with, "What's the craziest thing we can think of related to this brand?" And then how do we make that make sense? How do we make that both attract people on an intellectual, on an emotional level, and make that something that

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folks will never forget? Because there is that that quote of, "People will ... may forget what you said, but they'll never forget how you made them feel." And so, using that as the narrative that animates that works specifically with something that was kind of really exciting in that moment when it was kind of the new frontier in experiential.

John Boccacino: Now I really want to have a cannoli and see that world's largest cannoli tree.

Patrick Garriga...: Oh my gosh.

John Boccacino: It probably hasn't aged too well over time.

Patrick Garriga...: No, I would not recommend that.

John Boccacino: It is though, it's such a fascinating arc, again, that you've taken. And you mentioned earlier how influential Syracuse was in your career. What made you choose VPA and Syracuse in the first place?

Patrick Garriga...: Yeah, I think for me, it was really, I knew I wanted a much bigger university experience. I grew up in a small town in Ohio, Marion, Ohio, and had .... theater was always my escape. It was always this thing where I felt like I could kind of my best self. And so, I wanted to do that professionally and maybe ... folks were like, "Well, could you see yourself doing?" And I was like, "I want to do this forever." And so, then just doing my research and exploring incredible musical theater programs.

And as you know from doing this work, Syracuse program is always in the top rated, specifically for musical theater. So, knowing the number of alums that have graduated and have gone on to have incredible careers, Patti Murin, who is Elsa in on Broadway, she and I have been texting all day. And so, you found these incredible relationships and friendships that grow to be kind of lifelong associations. But the curriculum and the planning was just top-notch and being able, to again, think expansively and think fearlessly specifically in this program was something that I've taken away and am incredibly proud of.

John Boccacino: What other examples, Patrick, can you give us of valuable lessons, valuable tips that you picked up from your time at Syracuse that have really served you well in your career?

Patrick Garriga...: I think I mentioned that idea of thinking audaciously, going through that filter of possible, probable, practical. That is something that, specifically when we would, we would tackle any scene or any song, that going through that and using that as kind of how you build something was, again, so foundational to everything that I do today. But I think the other thing is learning to be fearless, right? There are so many people who are striving to be like somebody else, who are trying to kind of aspire towards ... whether that's influencer status or anything else. But being fearless and really kind of owning who you are, in terms of putting your ideas out there. And

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they may be colossal flops. And being able to be granted the permission for that to be okay. But putting yourself, putting your ideas out there, having the confidence to articulate them in a way that is going to move other people and compel them into action, whatever that might be, whether that's emotional or political, or driving consumer behaviors. Those are really, really important, tangible things about my time at Syracuse, that I got.

And then the other was like the value of hustle, of actively going after the things that you want. And again, this kind of ladders back to that sense of fearlessness. But so often specifically when I'm talking to people who are ... especially right now, who are transitioning careers into something else, I'm saying go after what you want. If someone has a job that you want, email them, hit them up on LinkedIn and say, "Hey, tell me about what you do," and be legitimately curious. And I think that that is something, specifically in the theater program, that we were very good at because we were of course learning scene study and vocal classes and writing and scripting and directing. But we were also learning the business of it, of being out there pounding the pavement every day, thinking about how you're marketing yourself, and really kind of going after those things with a sense of purpose. That's something that I've taken away and it have applied through kind of all aspects of my career.

John Boccacino: When you reflect back on your time at Syracuse, I can tell how excited you are to be talking about Syracuse, to be reminiscing about your career on the stage. What are some of your favorite memories and favorite moments from your time on the Hill?

Patrick Garriga...: Oh my gosh. I don't even know where to start. I mean, mine was also such an interesting thing because I had both the top of the Hill and the bottom of the Hill experience. I lived at ... Brewster Boland was what it was called at the time when I was there, and Lawrinson for my first two years. And then lived down at the bottom of the Hill by by Syracuse Stage and the drama program. And so, this opportunity was wonderful because it gave me that chance to reflect, and I will never forget going to Cosmo's and having the sticky bun and a milkshake and just going into like total sugar overload. I think that is one of the biggest ones that I have is just the time on campus.

And the friendships that I've made that are so lifelong. I mean, that sounds like such a cliche, but in so many ways, especially in the theater program, when you graduate, it isn't goodbye and then everyone goes off with the wind. That was your core support system moving to New York and having this network of people who were dealing with the same things. And having the foundation of all having gone through the same thing at Syracuse was just wildly, wildly helpful.

And I think the last piece that I have such a strong affinity for is the way that the Syracuse drama program was structured in terms of having the school aligned with Syracuse Stage. And so, being able to learn from people who are professionals in the space and be able to align with them and learn what people's processes were.

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In a lot of ways, I was well on my way to getting my union card before I'd even left college. And so, having those experiences, that is that mix of the best of the college with kind of being able to toe the water and from a professional world before even graduating is something that I will never forget.

John Boccacino: I know, Patrick, a lot of people again are going to listen, and they're going to keep asking the questions of how and why, and you filled in the gaps of how you went from being musical theater to where you are now. You've mentioned the audacity, live audaciously, go after what you want, and be tenacious. What are some other career pointers you might give for people who want to get into the communications sector based on how constantly evolving the world is right now? What's like your top two, top three pieces of advice?

Patrick Garriga...: I think there are a handful. And I think about this a lot, because I think as you alluded, so many people are in the live events space now, are in the virtual space. So, you have to be kind of always challenging yourself to go forward. I think if I were to kind of put those down into maybe kind of three core tenets to take away from those, it is always be legitimately curious. When I was graduated, I had this five-year plan, as I was going to be on Broadway, then I was going to run the theater, then I was going to run for the Senate and it was all mapped out. I had a plan. But life is way cooler than I could have ever imagined. And so, I think being curious and not shutting down something because it's different than what you thought was your plan. Those disruptions are exactly what leads you in the very kind of nonlinear path that I've had.

I think you've always ... the other one that I kind of go back to is you'll always be rewarded for creativity. What is the cherry on top? What is the thing that you can bring to your work that no one else has thought about? And take the time to really put the work in on those things, to add the element. John, you're doing this right now. You're mentioning like having this be this passion project that you want to bring the stories of Syracuse grads and Syracuse heroes forward, like bring the creativity to that, uncover new things, and do it in ways that no one has thought before. Whether that is something that is embraced or not, is kind of neither here nor there, because I think people always appreciate the colors that you've brought to a specific initiative. And ultimately you may find yourself on the way there.

I think the last thing that I would say is embrace your superhero skills. I think specifically changing from a theater world where it's very laissez faire ... letting your freak flag fly is a core attribute. And I think changing from that world to a more kind of professional or corporate structure, I thought, well, if I'm moving from this world to this world, I should be this. I should fit in this box. I shouldn't talk like this. And I found that I've actually found a much greater success by embracing the fact that I'm not like everyone else, and I like different things, and I'm not scared to talk about the things that light me up, and if someone has a good idea to tell them and not hide those things, because you're also creating a permission structure for other people to do the same.

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And I just love that idea of embracing your own superhero skills. Even now I will start conference calls by singing and like ... sorry. But it is like, those are the things that are unique about me, that help add value to whatever organization that I happen to be in. And everyone has those. They may not be quite as loud as mine are, but they have them. And so, I encourage folks to never put those things away, but to really kind of lift them up, celebrate them and think about the way that you look at things, how does that add value to whatever organization you happen to be in?

John Boccacino: Two things I've taken away from your comments here. Obviously your passion, your direction, your ability to be fluid and pursue your dreams and chase down unusual angles. You don't take no for an answer. Again, you're being audacious and you're living your best life. I also really desperately want a toasted honey bun now, since you mentioned that [crosstalk 00:29:43].

Patrick Garriga...: I know.

John Boccacino: Thanks for getting my appetite all up there during the podcast.

Patrick Garriga...: I know. I [inaudible 00:29:49]. I those things. I can't pack those away like I used to though, man.

John Boccacino: But it's great to hear. I'm so happy to hear about your successes too, again, for those alumni that are listening. And we thank you for, of course, coming on the podcast, Patrick. He will be a part of a panel discussion on November 18th on communications careers, along with Sarah Polger, the Director at National Geographic, Jennifer Arnold, the Senior Director of Marketing and Communications at the US Soccer Federation. You can register for the event by going to alumni.syr.edu, or you can also visit cc.syr.edu/successinanycityseries.

Patrick, we wish you nothing but the best in all your endeavors. Can't wait to see what you cook up more with these Bloomberg Live events out here. And again, thanks for taking the time to reminisce with us.

Patrick Garriga...: Thanks so much for having me, John. It's been a pleasure.

John Boccacino: Thanks for checking out the latest installment of The Cuse Conversations Podcast. You can find our podcast on all of your major podcasting platforms, including Apple Podcasts, Google Play, and Spotify. You can also find our podcast at alumni.syr.edu/cuseconversations and anchor.fm.cuseconversations. My name is John Boccacino signing off for the Cuse Conversations Podcast.

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