LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1401
OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 13 November 2019
The Council met at Eleven o'clock
MEMBERS PRESENT:
THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN
THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG
THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P.
PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P.
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THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO
THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S.
THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H.
THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S.
THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN
THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG
THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI
THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK WING-HANG
THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P.
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DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG
DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN
THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN
THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, G.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H.
DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, S.B.S., J.P.
IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE ALVIN YEUNG
THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WAN SIU-KIN
THE HONOURABLE CHU HOI-DICK
THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, B.B.S., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HO KAI-MING
THE HONOURABLE LAM CHEUK-TING
THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING
THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-CHUN
THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H.
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THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN, J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN
THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN
THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE HUI CHI-FUNG
THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H.
THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LAU IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.
DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI
THE HONOURABLE JEREMY TAM MAN-HO
THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI
THE HONOURABLE AU NOK-HIN
THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG WING-SHUN, M.H., J.P.
THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S.
THE HONOURABLE CHAN HOI-YAN
MEMBERS ABSENT:
THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN
THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG, J.P.
THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHUN-YU
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PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING:
THE HONOURABLE MATTHEW CHEUNG KIN-CHUNG, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION
THE HONOURABLE NICHOLAS W. YANG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY
THE HONOURABLE JOHN LEE KA-CHIU, S.B.S., P.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY
THE HONOURABLE EDWARD YAU TANG-WAH, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
THE HONOURABLE KEVIN YEUNG YUN-HUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION
THE HONOURABLE PATRICK NIP TAK-KUEN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS
MR LIU CHUN-SAN, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT
CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE:
MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL
MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL
MS DORA WAI, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members to the Chamber.
(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members entered the Chamber)
PAPERS TO BE LAID ON THE TABLE OF THE COUNCIL
The following papers were laid on the table under Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:
Subsidiary Legislation/Instruments Legal Notice No.
Veterinary Surgeons Board (Election of Members) Regulation ...... 161 of 2019
Hong Kong Science and Technology Parks Corporation Ordinance (Amendment of Schedule 1) (No. 2) Notice 2019 ...... 162 of 2019
Allowances to Jurors (Amendment) Order 2019 (Commencement) Notice ...... 163 of 2019
Criminal Procedure (Witnesses' Allowances) (Amendment) Rules 2019 (Commencement) Notice ...... 164 of 2019
Coroners (Witnesses' Allowances) (Amendment) Rules 2019 (Commencement) Notice ...... 165 of 2019
Control of Obscene and Indecent Articles (Amendment) Regulation 2019 (Commencement) Notice ...... 166 of 2019
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Other Papers
Environment and Conservation Fund Trustee Report 2018-2019 (including Report of the Director of Audit and Financial Statements)
Correctional Services Department Welfare Fund Report by the Commissioner of Correctional Services of Hong Kong Incorporated on the Administration of the Fund, Financial statements and Report of the Director of Audit for the year ended 31 March 2019
Prisoners' Education Trust Fund Report by the Trustee, Financial statements and Report of the Director of Audit for the period 1 April 2018 to 31 March 2019
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members, I received this morning requests made by three Members to ask a total of three urgent questions under Rule 24(4) of the Rules of Procedure ("RoP"). After consideration, I have given permission to the urgent question on "Emergency measures to allay public resentment immediately" proposed by Mr IP Kin-yuen. As the other two urgent questions do not meet the requirement set out in RoP 24(4), I do not permit them to be asked. My written ruling on the matter has been issued.
Due to time constraints, I have decided that in today's meeting, this Council will first deal with the six oral questions and then proceed immediately to deal with the urgent question of Mr IP Kin-yuen.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Questions. First question.
Police operation at MTR Prince Edward Station on 31 August
1. MR ALVIN YEUNG (in Cantonese): President, according to the footage captured by the media, on the night of 31 August this year, some police officers attacked members of the public, who did not put up any resistance, with batons 1408 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 and pepper spray and pointed guns at them on the platforms of MTR Prince Edward Station and inside the train compartments thereat. It has been reported that on that night, the Police evicted journalists and volunteer first-aiders from Prince Edward Station and then, by claiming that there were no injured persons in the station, hindered the entry of ambulancemen of the Fire Services Department ("FSD") to the station to perform rescue work, resulting in the delayed treatment of quite a number of injured persons. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) between the night of 31 August and the early hours of the following day, of the respective numbers of police officers, firemen, ambulancemen and personnel of other government departments (please specify) who were on duty inside MTR Prince Edward Station and Lai Chi Kok Station, the respective numbers of persons arrested in the Concourse, on Platform 1/2 Level and Platform 3/4 Level inside Prince Edward Station, as well as the respective numbers of injured persons, arrestees and other non-government personnel who were conveyed by a specially arranged train from Prince Edward Station to Lai Chi Kok Station (and provide a breakdown by the exit through which they left), and set out such figures in tables;
(2) of the reasons and the legal basis for the Police evicting journalists and volunteer first-aiders from Prince Edward Station on that night; whether the Government has assessed if the eviction of journalists has infringed upon the freedom of the press enjoyed by Hong Kong residents under Article 27 of the Basic Law; if they have assessed, of the outcome; and
(3) given that despite the Government's repeated denial of the death of any person during the aforesaid confrontations, quite a number of members of the public still suspect that the Police have concealed some information, whether the Government will make public all footage captured on that night by the closed-circuit television cameras at the MTR stations and by police officers' body worn video cameras, so as to allay public concerns?
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SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, on 31 August this year, a large group of protesters participated in unlawful assemblies in various districts in Hong Kong, Kowloon and the New Territories during which rioters blocked roads, vandalized public property, setting fire, hurled petrol bombs at government buildings at a large scale, assaulted police officers recklessly by bricks and iron poles, and even hurled iron railings and miscellaneous objects onto the tracks of the Mass Transit Railway ("MTR"), completely disregarding the safety of other passengers.
At about 10:45 pm in Prince Edward Station, a large group of rioters got into arguments with other passengers in the train compartments. As seen on news coverage and online footage, passengers including the elderly were abused, assaulted and attacked by these rioters, who later even sprayed the train with a fire extinguisher, resulting in chaos inside the compartments.
MTR reported to the Police, and later made announcements requesting passengers to leave the train compartments. Apart from MTR who reported to the Police, the Police also received 999 reports from members of the public. The Police thus dispatched policemen to Prince Edward Station to stop violent acts and effect arrest against offenders.
The Police were attacked by rioters after entering the station. When police officers arrived at the platforms and entered the compartments, rioters used umbrellas and other objects to attack them. It was necessary for police officers to use appropriate force including batons and pepper spray for arrest and dispersal.
Regarding the incident in Prince Edward Station, as of 31 October, the Police arrested a total of 66 persons for alleged offences including "unlawful assembly", "criminal damage" and "possession of offensive weapon". During the operation, the Police seized weapons and gears such as petrol bombs, laser guns, slingshots, steel pellets, helmets and gas masks.
My reply to the various parts of the question is as follows:
(1) In the evening of 31 August, the Police sent different units of uniformed and plain-clothes officers into Prince Edward Station to combat violent and illegal acts, arresting 52 people in the Prince Edward Station lobby and on platforms 3 and 4. Seven of the 1410 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
arrested people were escorted by the Police from Prince Edward Station to Kwai Chung Police Station. Later, Prince Edward Station was under siege by protesters. Out of safety and security concerns and after discussing with the MTR Corporation Limited ("MTRCL"), a special train trip was arranged to send the remaining 45 arrested persons to Lai Chi Kok Station, seven of whom were immediately sent to hospital for treatment after arriving at Lai Chi Kok Station.
During the period from the evening of 31 August to the early hours of 1 September, 38 personnel of the Fire Services Department ("FSD") were performing duties at MTR Prince Edward Station, among them 20 ambulance personnel escorted the seven injured arrestees from Prince Edward Station to Lai Chi Kok Station. There were another 18 ambulance personnel at the B2 Exit of Lai Chi Kok Station that night who delivered the seven injured arrested persons from Lai Chi Kok Station to Caritas Medical Centre and Princess Margaret Hospital in batches.
(2) According to section 10 of the Police Force Ordinance (Cap. 232), it is the Police's statutory duty to maintain public safety and public order. As such, when unlawful assemblies and violent acts occur, the Police must take appropriate actions to restore public peace.
Hong Kong has press freedom and the media's right of reporting, which the Police will strive to facilitate. The Police also have the statutory duty to maintain public safety and public order. Mutual respect and understanding are beneficial to the work of both sides.
Besides, the Police also always make every effort to facilitate all ambulance services, and will not obstruct or delay such services. Furthermore, most police officers have received first aid and basic medical training and are able to provide preliminary treatment for injured persons before ambulance personnel arrive at the scene.
At 10:45 pm, MTR called the Police for assistance because the train doors could not be closed due to passenger disputes on the train. Subsequently, smouldering was found in the train compartments and a number of Passenger Alarm Devices inside the compartments were LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1411
activated. MTRCL, out of safety concerns, activated the evacuation procedures at 10:53 pm, including making appeals through announcement and sending staff to assist passengers in leaving, as well as closing Prince Edward Station. The Police received the reports from MTR and members of the public and entered Prince Edward Station. As MTR had closed the MTR station, and the Police had to handle a large number of arrestees at the scene, with dangerous weapons such as petrol bombs, slingshots seized; due to safety considerations, the Police appealed to all persons at the scene to leave Prince Edward Station as soon as possible.
When the Police were aware that ambulances had been deployed to the scene to assist the injured persons, immediate coordination was arranged with FSD and MTR for ambulance personnel to enter the MTR station to provide medical care for the injured persons. As a large group of persons besieged the station and dug out bricks from the pavements, the Police considered the vicinity unsafe after assessment. After discussing with MTR, and out of safety considerations, a special train was arranged to send the ambulance personnel and the injured persons to Lai Chi Kok Station, who were then transferred to the Caritas Medical Centre and the Princess Margaret Hospital respectively for treatment.
(3) Regarding the Prince Edward Station incident on 31 August, the Hospital Authority ("HA") and FSD have repeatedly clarified in public and clearly confirmed that no one died. The groundless allegations of still saying that someone had died are sheer fabrications and malicious rumours; the intentions to smear the Police Force and create conflicts in society are ill-willed.
The Police's criminal investigation is actively being undertaken, including reviewing the relevant footage captured by the Police and the footage of the closed-circuit television cameras that night from MTRCL, etc. Such information may likely be evidence in the criminal trial, and to ensure a fair trial, it is inappropriate to and cannot be disclosed before the trial. The court's trial is open and will be known by members of the public and the media.
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MR ALVIN YEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I wonder if the Secretary has heard the saying that goes, "Nowhere to be seen on 21 July; beating people to death on 31 August". That saying refers to the indiscriminate attacks inflicted on members of the Hong Kong public on 31 August by the Hong Kong Police Force, which proclaim themselves the Asia's finest police force. There have even been rumours suggesting that some were beaten to death by the Police on that night.
Now I have a question for the Secretary. Do you really think all the Hongkongers—those Hongkongers who were in the MTR premises—were simply getting their just deserts on that night? Did they all deserve to be beaten up? Was every one of them the "rioters" referred to by the Secretary, "rioters" who attacked police officers with bricks and iron poles? Did they all deserve to be beaten up by the Police of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region ("HKSAR")?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, what the Member has said just now—Let me say it one more time—are false rumours and sheer fabrications. Both HA and FSD, and even MTRCL as well as the Police, have stressed time and again that no one died. What the Member has referred to are sheer fabrications, as I have already stated clearly just now. I hope Members will not keep referring to such a falsehood, which only serves to feed the misunderstandings and conflicts in society.
When faced with illegal acts while discharging duties, the Police have no choice but to enforce the law as required by the law. If they are under attack in the course of law enforcement, they must take appropriate actions. When we look at a certain situation, we must take into account the context and see the matter in its entirety.
As a matter of fact, when the trains heading towards Prince Edward Station arrived at Yau Ma Tei Station that day, the Police arrested 10 persons at Yau Ma Tei Station who were involved in some serious offences on that day, including violent acts. We hope that the whole matter can be gauged comprehensively. As a matter fact, there may be criminal trials eventually, during which we will see the evidence in its entirety.
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Alvin YEUNG, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR ALVIN YEUNG (in Cantonese): My question is simple. Secretary, regarding those members of the public being beaten by the Police of HKSAR on the night of 31 August, was every one of them rioter who had attacked the Police and thus deserved to be beaten? Were those members of the public being beaten by the Police of HKSAR all rioters who had attacked the Police Force and deserved to be beaten?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, any use of force by the Police is consequential to the situation at the scene. If they are attacked or met with resistance while taking actions, they must adopt the appropriate methods and use the appropriate level of force to achieve the purpose of law enforcement.
MR SHIU KA-FAI (in Cantonese): President, regarding the "31 August" incident, I saw from some videos many black-clad people engaging in vandalism at other MTR stations and wandering inside MTR premises. From those videos, I saw some black-clad people getting into arguments with some elderly persons at Prince Edward Station, and then many elderly persons being mobbed and beaten up by many black-clad people, some of whom were even female.
I wish to ask how many elderly persons were injured at the time. Does the Security Bureau have the relevant figures? I also wish to ask a second question. While the station in question is actually quite extensive, in many of the altercations and confrontations amid the disturbances arising from the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance, the items of evidence related to some suspects were already taken away or stolen before their arrests, resulting in a lack of evidence during prosecution. Since the station with four platforms occupies a vast premises, may I ask how the Security Bureau or the Police can ensure that no evidence has been taken away by other people?
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, Mr SHIU Ka-fai has raised two questions just now. You may choose to answer one of them.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, allow me to give a consolidated reply, since there are commonalities between the two questions. First, the Police will definitely make contact with everyone inside the train compartments on that day, including victims, particularly the elderly persons mentioned by Mr SHIU just now. We will contact them for the taking of statements. As for the details, since they relate to the content of the investigation, I do not wish to divulge them at this stage.
Second, Mr SHIU was right in saying that the premises at the scene was vast and there were different items of material evidence. We saw from videos rioters changing clothes and putting on a different look, while trying to dispose of some objects. Yet, we found petrol bombs from some people. In particular, we found two petrol bombs from an arrestee and other petrol bombs near him. Charges have been filed against these persons.
It is indeed challenging and difficult to gather evidence inside such vast premises. That said, closed-circuit television is one source of evidence into which we have tapped. On the other hand, given that there were different police officers performing different duties on that day, the various information provided by them through observation would enable us to link a certain piece of evidence with a certain person. As for the details, however, they certainly must be straightened out during investigations.
Third, in the course of investigations, there may be information provided by members of the public in a third-person account and such information may enable us to link up the different parts of the entire case with the evidence.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr SHIU Ka-fai, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR SHIU KA-FAI (in Cantonese): There is this narrative in the community that many people died during the "31 August" incident. Some people pointed out that if it was indeed the case, the family and friends of the victims would have made a report to the Police …
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr SHIU Ka-fai, that is not part of your supplementary question that has not been answered. Please sit down. If you wish to raise another supplementary question, please press the "Request to speak" button.
MR ANDREW WAN (in Cantonese): President, after reading the main reply by the Secretary, I think it is actually the Secretary who was making fabrications. He could be confusing us, even lying. President, why am I saying this? Because it is stated in the Secretary's main reply that during the period from the evening of 31 August to the early hours of 1 September, there were 38 FSD personnel performing duties at the station and 20 ambulance personnel entering the station. He did not, however, mention the timing. What we take issue is that the Police drove people out of the station while barring the entry of medical personnel for several hours. We also saw, through cameras, some police officers tell the medical personnel: "There were no injuries." Was someone lying?
President, I also saw the response given by the Police at the time, which pointed out that they entered the MTR station to hunt down protesters, not to beat up innocent members of the general public. Yet, we saw that the train entered by the Police had just arrived at the platform. That is why we doubt the Government and the Police for their lack of credibility, and wonder whether the Police have been lying on a daily basis.
In his main reply, the Secretary stated that seven arrestees were injured. Yet, we saw clearly from the television that on the newly arrived train I mentioned just now, there were more than seven people in just one single compartment when the officers of the Special Tactical Squad charged on board and began beating up people. I wish to ask the Secretary if he has the number of people who sustained injuries from the assault but were not arrested. Why no apologies were made to these members of the public?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, we do not have figures for those who went to hospitals on their own for treatment with respect to the incident, as HA would only make public the number of injured persons they admitted.
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As for the number of persons who sustained injuries in relation to the incident on that day at Prince Edward Station, it was affirmed not just by the account of the Police, but that of FSD, among others, as well. I believe FSD has given a clear account in at least three press briefings on what happened that day, under what circumstances were the seven injured persons transferred from Prince Edward Station to Lai Chi Kok Station, and the time it took for the transfer. They also explained the necessity of using a lift to reach one platform from another, the capacity of the lift, and the number of batches in which the transfer was made. Upon arriving at Lai Chi Kok Station, they had to repeat the same process again, resulting in such lengthy rescue time overall. In this connection, FSD has made clear time and again that there were only seven injured persons and no one died.
Moreover, MTRCL has also stated many times in its press releases that according to the records of MTRCL, no one died on that day. Furthermore, HA has also released a clear statement setting out that from the night of 31 August until the morning of 2 September, a total of 46 injured persons in relation to the public meetings in various districts were respectively conveyed to the consultation rooms and the Accident and Emergency ("A&E") Departments of 10 public hospitals, among them 35 were male and 11 were female. And according to information provided by the injured persons and the records of various A&E Departments, 19 of the injured persons needed to be hospitalized for treatment, 5 of them were in serious conditions and 4 were stable, while the rest of the injured persons were discharged upon receiving treatment. All injured persons admitted by HA on that day were discharged by now, and none of them died.
Hence, it is clear that there was no incident of death at all. I hope Members will not make fabrications and fictitious claims on the matter, which would benefit no one. Moreover, Hong Kong is not an isolated island. If someone had indeed died, his or her family would most certainly make a report to the Police. How can it be possible that we have no such information at all? Hence, no one died in the incident. I wish to tell Members loud and clear that there was no incident of death.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Andrew WAN, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
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MR ANDREW WAN (in Cantonese): President, he has not answered my supplementary question at all, as my question was not about whether someone had died. I wish to make sense of the remarks he made …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): You need only point out the part of your supplementary question that has not been answered.
MR ANDREW WAN (in Cantonese): I know. I am elaborating, President. Please listen patiently for a couple of seconds …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Please point out the part of your supplementary question that has not been answered.
MR ANDREW WAN (in Cantonese): I asked him whether there were many injured persons who were beaten up by the Police but were not arrested. Do his remarks indicate that it was indeed the case? For he said that there were many injured persons …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Andrew WAN, you have pointed out the part of your supplementary question that has not been answered …
MR ANDREW WAN (in Cantonese): He needs only answer me "yes" or "no" …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Please sit down. Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): I think I have already answered the Member's supplementary question.
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MR LEUNG YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary accused us of making fabrications. Yet, I wish to ask the Secretary if he has watched the relevant news footage, particularly that of TVB. Did he see police officers of the anti-riot squad entering the train compartments and beating up people at random? Did he see such a scene? On the other hand, he said seven injured persons were conveyed to hospitals for treatment. I wish to ask the Secretary this question. If there were more than seven injured persons, will he seek damages on behalf of these persons for the injuries they sustained and prosecute those police officers who had beaten them?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, I have, in fact, answered similar questions. Regarding the television footage, I have explained multiple times that it is imperative for us to put the entire matter in context. One single video clip, or several of them for that matter, is not enough to fully reflect the situation at the time. If the Police face any resistance in the course of taking actions and achieving their legitimate purposes, they must take actions accordingly. That is the first point.
Second, if there are persons who were injured on that day, perhaps for various reasons of which we have no knowledge, who think that their injuries had something to do with the actions of the Police, they can certainly raise the issue with the Police or make a direct complaint against the policemen involved. In regard to these cases, we will certainly deal with the matter fairly and impartially.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR LEUNG YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): He has not answered me. I asked him whether he had watched the footage showing policemen beating up people at random. He has not answered me whether he has watched them.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1419
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, I have answered the Member's supplementary question just now.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Second question. Mr WU Chi-wai.
(Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung stood up)
MR LEUNG YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): President, I was just asking him if he "had" or "had not" watched the footage.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The Secretary has already answered your question.
MR LEUNG YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): He has not.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): Could you state clearly again the question you wish me to answer?
MR LEUNG YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): I wish to ask the Secretary whether he has watched the news footage of that day, in particular the news footage broadcasted by TVB showing policemen beating up passengers at random.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): The police officers were employing the necessary measures to deal with the situation confronting them at the time, and the level of force they used was necessary for them to achieve their purposes.
(Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung spoke in his seat)
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): If Members are not satisfied with the Secretary's answers, they can pursue the matter through other channels.
Second question. Mr WU Chi-wai.
Procedural issues of the Police's handling of arrestees
2. MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): It has been reported that since June this year, the Police have arrested several thousand demonstrators during a number of demonstrations. Some arrestees had been detained for a period longer than 48 hours, the limit prescribed by law, before they were brought before a magistrate or released. Furthermore, a 13-year-old boy was not accompanied by any parent or guardian, nor was he informed of his rights, when he made a statement. Regarding the procedural issues of the Police's handling of such arrestees, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the total number of persons arrested since June this year, with a tabulated breakdown by age group (i.e. under 14 years old, 14 to 15 years old, 16 to 17 years old, 18 to 30 years old, 31 to 50 years old, and above 50 years old) and duration of detention (i.e. less than 12 hours, 12 to 24 hours, 25 to 48 hours, and more than 48 hours);
(2) of the respective numbers of persons arrested for the first time who, at present, have been released unconditionally, released on bail pending further enquiries, released unconditionally after declining to enter into further bail, and charged, as well as are in other situations, with a tabulated breakdown by the aforesaid age groups; and
(3) of the respective numbers of cases in which the arrestees under 16 years old and other arrestees experienced the following situations (set out in a table): not being informed of the reasons for the arrest when the arrest was made, not having been informed of their rights before they were questioned, not having been informed of their right to silence before they made a statement and, for those arrestees under 16 years old, not being accompanied by any parent or guardian when they made a statement?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1421
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, members of the public enjoy the freedom of expression, speech and assembly but they must do so peacefully and lawfully. If any unlawful act occurs, the Police have a statutory responsibility to take enforcement actions to maintain public safety and public order. Since early June this year, there have been over 700 public demonstrations, processions and public meetings staged in Hong Kong. Many of them have eventually turned into violent illegal activities. In the past five months or more, on many occasions, rioters engaged in serious illegal acts such as blocking the roads, paralysing the traffic, throwing petrol bombs and setting fires at various locations, throwing bricks, and vandalizing and burning shops and MTR and Light Rail facilities, which posed serious threats to personal safety, public order and public safety.
Section 50(1) of the Police Force Ordinance (Cap. 232) empowers the police officer to apprehend any person who he reasonably believes will be charged with or whom he reasonably suspects of being guilty of an offence for which a person may (on a first conviction for that offence) be sentenced to imprisonment.
When any person is arrested by the Police, the police officer will, as soon as possible, inform him of the fact that he is under arrest, as well as the factual grounds and the reasons for the arrest. The arrestee will be brought before the Duty Officer as soon as possible to confirm the legality of his custody and arrest. He will then be handed over to an investigation team for investigation. After the completion of the preliminary investigation, the Police will decide whether it is necessary to detain the arrestee. The Police will, depending on the circumstances of individual cases, consider releasing the arrestee on own recognizance, on bail or unconditionally. The arrestee generally will not be detained over 48 hours.
My reply to the various parts of the question is as follows:
(1) and (2)
There have been ongoing demonstrations, protests and violent conflicts in Hong Kong since 9 June. As at 31 October, the Police arrested a total of 3 001 persons, aged between 12 and 83. Among them, one third are students, and 430 persons (or 14.3%) are aged under 18. The offences involved include "taking part in a riot", "unlawful assembly", "wounding", "assault occasioning actual bodily 1422 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
harm", "common assault", "arson", "criminal damage", "assaulting police officer", "obstructing a police officer in the execution of his duty", "in possession of offensive weapons", and "the use of facial covering in public meetings". Regarding questions about the age of the arrestees, the number of arrestees being released unconditionally, the number of cases that are still under investigation, and the number of cases that have already entered into legal proceedings, we can see the related statistical figures at Annex 1. The Police do not maintain statistics on the duration of detention of the arrestees.
(3) The Police have put in place clear guidelines on handling child or juvenile arrestees for ensuring their rights and welfare. According to the Police General Orders, the Police should, when arresting a child or young person, take all reasonable procedures to inform his parents or guardian. The Police will, as far as reasonably practicable, request an "appropriate adult" to accompany the arrested child or young person at the police station when questioning him. An "appropriate adult" refers to:
(1) a relative, guardian or other person responsible for care or custody of the arrestee;
(2) someone who has experience of handling a person with a particular special need but who is not a police officer nor employed by the Police; or
(3) failing either of the above, some other responsible adult who is not a police officer nor employed by the Police.
The Police will arrange an "appropriate adult" for the arrestees according to the established procedures and guidelines. The Police do not maintain the information requested in the question.
Every "appropriate adult" will be issued a Notice to "Appropriate Adult" for Person Assisting/Under Police Enquiry/In Police Custody who is Mentally Incapacitated or Aged Under 16 ("Notice to Appropriate Adult"). The Notice to Appropriate Adult will state the roles and responsibilities of an appropriate adult so as to help them understand how they can provide appropriate support to the arrestees. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1423
Before conducting a custody search on a detainee under the age of 16, the Duty Officer will ensure the presence of an "appropriate adult" aged 18 or above and of the same gender as the person being searched. The Police will ensure that male and female arrestees are not detained in the same temporary holding area, while adults should be detained separately from juveniles and children.
The Police always strive to protect the privacy and rights of detainees. The fundamental rights of children and juveniles under detention are the same as those of other detainees, which include the rights to seek legal assistance, communicate with a relative or friend, receive copies of written records under caution, be provided with food and drink, and seek medical attention. The rights of a detainee are clearly stated in the notice issued by the Police to every detainee in police custody or involved in police enquiries.
The Police do not maintain the relevant statistics mentioned in the question.
Annex 1
Already entered into Cases are still under or in the course of investigation Age of the Released legal proceedings (on bail for further Total arrestees unconditionally (have been investigation/released charged/summonsed/ unconditionally) directly bound over) Below 14 1 22 6 29 14 to 15 6 114 16 136 16 to 17 13 216 36 265 18 to 30 49 1 548 358 1 955 31 to 50 21 373 87 481 Above 50 7 107 21 135 Total 97 2 380 524 3 001 (As at 31 October)
1424 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): The annex to the Secretary's main reply obviously shows that during the course of law enforcement by the Police in respect of this "anti-extradition to China" movement, being young is a crime. Among the 3 000 arrestees, nearly 2 500 are aged below 30. We have also seen from many video clips that when police officers saw students holding hands to form "human chains" or singing "Glory to Hong Kong" in front of their schools, they would subdue and arrest the students.
May I ask whether the indiscriminate arrests made by the Police arbitrarily in shopping malls or at the entrance of schools during the course of law enforcement were ordered by the Security Bureau? Is the community thus unable to express views by peaceful and rational means? Did the Security Bureau give orders for the Police to not allow the masses to express their aspirations peacefully, including singing "Glory to Hong Kong", requesting Carrie LAM to step down, and even demanding dissolution of the Police?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, the arrest of anyone by the Police must be based on facts and evidence. If someone breaks the law and commits an unlawful act before the Police, the Police must take action based on such facts and evidence. We do not wish to see young people take part in any illegal activities, but we must face certain facts. As I have just clearly stated in the main reply, members of the public enjoy the freedom of expression and freedom of assembly, but they must do so peacefully and lawfully. If the assemblies or free expressions are peaceful and lawful, there will be no need for law enforcement by the Police, and everyone will be fine. On many past occasions, the Police did not take any action after such activities ended. However, when the Police see any unlawful act …
(Mr WU Chi-wai shouted in his seat)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr WU Chi-wai, please stop shouting in your seat.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): … such as someone digging out bricks from the ground and hurling them at other people, or someone throwing bricks and trash from bridges onto highways, the Police must take action accordingly. Now we hope that in respect of such violence, everybody …
(Mr WU Chi-wai shouted in his seat again) LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1425
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr WU Chi-wai, please stop shouting in your seat.
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): The Secretary did not answer my question.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): You have already raised your supplementary question to the Secretary. If you think he did not answer your question, I will later let you point out which part of your supplementary question has not been answered. You should first let the Secretary reply.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, we should look at the whole picture. In particular, after almost five months of social turmoil, we should look at the whole picture rather than merely a certain fragment. Some people expressed their views in a lawful manner, but there were also quite a large number of violent incidents which were illegal. We cannot just mention a certain fragment. We should look at the overall situation in society.
Yesterday, we saw such a situation which we can describe as "petrol bombs going rampant across the city", burning …
(Mr WU Chi-wai stood up and shouted)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr WU Chi-wai, this is my last warning to you. If you continue to shout …
MR WU CHI-WAI (in Cantonese): The Secretary did not answer the question I had asked him.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): You should first let the Secretary finish his reply. If you think he did not answer your question, you may raise a follow-up question.
(Mr WU Chi-wai continued to shout while standing)
1426 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr WU Chi-wai, please sit down.
(Mr WU Chi-wai remained standing)
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, I think the Council should facilitate members of the public in having a comprehensive and clear understanding of the facts. We cannot possibly …
(Mr WU Chi-wai continued to shout while standing)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr WU Chi-wai, please leave the Chamber.
(Mr WU Chi-wai did not left the Chamber as ordered by the President, and a number of Members walked up to Mr WU Chi-wai while shouting aloud. Security officers moved forward to try to help Mr WU leave the Chamber)
(Mr HUI Chi-fung walked up to the President's podium)
MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): He is the Member who asked this question.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Yes, he is the Member who asked this question, but I have warned him repeatedly, requesting him to stop shouting.
(Mr WU Chi-wai still did not comply with the President's order of withdrawal. A number of Members continued to shout aloud and did not return to their seats. Meanwhile, Mr AU Nok-him walked towards the President's podium, and Mr LAM Cheuk-ting walked up to the back of the Secretary for Security)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The meeting is now suspended.
11:45 am
Meeting suspended.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1427
12:40 pm
Council then resumed.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): This Council will continue with the second question. Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, I do not have anything to add because I think the reply made by me just now has already answered the Member's question.
MR MICHAEL TIEN (in Cantonese): Secretary, regarding the arrestees, we know there is a lot of hearsay. I have heard three types: undergoing inappropriate body searches, being unable to see any lawyer and receiving unreasonable treatment.
President, frankly, I find it hard to believe, but I wonder why rumours could be cooked up so easily. Can some improvement be made to the procedures? Since the arrestees were unable to contact other people after being arrested, there turned out to be inconclusive arguments with each party telling their own version of the story. During a recent visit to my district, a kaifong offered a suggestion. He wished to ask the Secretary, through me, if he could consider the suggestion or look into it with the Police. Will it help dispel rumours if all arrestees involved in demonstrations are sent to a hospital for injury assessment in the first instance, with the body searches being done in the presence of health care staff and enquiries being made as to whether they need to contact any lawyer? Certainly, this will increase the workload of the hospitals, yet we may ask if they are willing to do so. If they are not, we have done what we could.
What worries me is that if such rumours go on, the hostile atmosphere against the Police will be aggravated …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr TIEN, please ask your supplementary question direct.
1428 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
MR MICHAEL TIEN (in Cantonese): I have asked my supplementary question. Will the Secretary please reply.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): When anyone is arrested, the Police will definitely fully inform the arrestee of his rights. We had fully consulted the Department of Justice ("DoJ") during the formulation of the existing procedures, including the obligation to state to the arrestee the reason for arrest during his arrest, and inform him of the relevant procedures during his body search.
The arrestee will also be informed of his rights to get legal assistance and request to see a lawyer. If he is injured and needs a physical examination or requests to go to a hospital for treatment, his rights will be fully protected. My main reply has stated very clearly that the existing procedures have been in use for years and fully tested in the Court. If anyone holds that there are individual cases not in compliance with the procedures, apart from raising it in the Court, he may also lodge a complaint under the existing complaint mechanism.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Michael TIEN, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR MICHAEL TIEN (in Cantonese): The Secretary did not answer my supplementary question. I am not asking him about the existing procedures. I know the existing procedures very well. My question to the Secretary is, given so many inconclusive arguments with each party telling their own version of the story, in order to ease the hostile atmosphere against the Police, will he discuss with the relevant department this view which the kaifong has asked me to raise. Can he look into it?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): I absolutely understand that it is important to enhance public confidence in the overall procedure. However, we have got to understand what we need to do after arresting a person under the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1429 procedures in law. Our purpose in arresting someone is to investigate whether there is sufficient evidence to prosecute him, and in general, all such investigation work must be completed within 48 hours.
If he really has such needs during the period of investigation, we will cater for his needs. However, not every arrestee will necessarily have such needs. If we have many additional procedural items and thereby making it impossible for the investigation work to be conducted smoothly, it will have an impact on the overall law and order, criminal prosecution, as well as whether or not we can find sufficient evidence to fight crimes.
Hence, what matters most is that the rights and interests that any arrestee is entitled to can receive full protection in law, and these rights have been set out clearly in the procedures of the Hong Kong Police Force. As I told Members just now, they have been set out clearly.
MR DENNIS KWOK (in Cantonese): President, during this extraordinary period, I hope you will not casually expel any Member from the Chamber. It is most important for Members to raise their supplementary questions. In Mr WU Chi-wai's main reply, it was mentioned that the time limit of detention was 48 hours.
My supplementary question is whether the Secretary can explicitly state that the Government will not make use of the Emergency Regulations Ordinance ("ERO") to extend the detention period. Can the Secretary reply that the Government will not do so?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): We are currently facing such a difficult time. To stop such serious violence, the Government will indeed consider every feasible measure. Hence, if there is any approach permissible under the laws of Hong Kong with which we can deal with the present problem, we will not rule out any possibility. However, when we do anything, we will certainly examine the overall impact on society and give comprehensive consideration in various aspects.
1430 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
MR DENNIS KWOK (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary did not answer my supplementary question. My supplementary question is whether the authorities will invoke ERO.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): My reply has already answered the Member's question.
MR PAUL TSE (in Cantonese): From the figures in the annex, we can see that as at the end of October, the total number of arrestees was 3 001. Among them, 97 had been released unconditionally. Certainly, these may include people who held hands to form "human chains", sang or chanted slogans as mentioned in the criticism levelled by a Member just now. The Police in fact will not take any further action on these people. Apart from that, 2 380 people were still under investigation, including those on bail for further investigation and those released after declining to enter into further bail. The number of persons already entered into or in the course of legal proceedings (including those who had been charged/summonsed/directly bound over) was 524. The total was 3 001. However, in the second and third categories mentioned by me just now, I believe quite a number of persons were already released on bail for further investigation. Few people really needed detention. In this regard, I have noticed many comments criticizing the Police for serving as a "revolving door" when dealing with these rioters, releasing them shortly after arresting them.
As a matter of fact, this was the case with a number of persons, including a student from the Department of Journalism of the Hong Kong Baptist University who has been covered in the recent press reports. He was arrested on 3 November and released later. Then he got into trouble again. Yesterday, he was even severely injured. We need to protect the relevant persons such that they will not get hurt again or have any opportunity to break the law again. In fact, one of the major principles of bail is that if it is possible that the arrestee will break the law again, bail will not be granted. In this connection, did the authorities adopt any appropriate measure and relay to DoJ or the Judiciary that we should stop granting bail to these persons?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1431
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, regarding what the Member has just mentioned, for someone who was granted bail by the Court or the Police after being arrested for the first time, if he is arrested for a second time and we take him to the Court, we will request the Court not to grant bail again. If he gets arrested again while on bail granted by the Court, we will certainly take him to the Court in the hope that the Court will revoke his bail, or detain him in respect of the new case.
If the Police allow his bail owing to incomplete investigation work, when he breaks the law again, provided that the evidence suffices, of course we will immediately take him to the Court and request the Court to impose additional bail conditions, such as a curfew order.
MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, speaking of the arrest procedure, I wish to know whether assaulting young people under arrest by the Police has become a standard procedure of the arrest operations of the Police. Many members of the public have urged me to put this question to the Secretary. In effecting an arrest, just make an arrest. Why did they assault the young people? I have seen it with my own eyes. Some people were dragged along the ground, some were hit on the head non-stop by the baton, and some suffered bone fractures after being pressed on the ground by police officers.
The supplementary question I wish to raise is here. John LEE, will you openly appeal to the frontline police officers to stop meting out extrajudicial punishment during arrest and stop regarding young people as the targets of the Police for venting their spleen?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, the supplementary question just now, in my view, did not reflect the truth. Very often, when the Police effected an arrest, the arrestee would struggle. We have seen many occasions on which the arrestee broke loose when the Police tried to make an arrest. Furthermore, very often, even if the Police could keep someone under control, a third person would come to snatch the offender and help him flee when he was not yet handcuffed. It was also recorded on camera that different persons approached in different roles, stirring up different troubles to divert the police officers' attention, thus enabling the arrestees to get away. As a result, the 1432 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
Police must exercise appropriate force to control the persons concerned. Even when an arrestee is already under police control, if he still keeps struggling, the Police must take appropriate action to control …
(Mr James TO shouted aloud in his seat)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr James TO, please stop shouting.
(Mr James TO and several Members spoke aloud in their seats)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): This is not Members' speaking time. Will Members please stop speaking.
(Mr James TO and several Members continued to speak aloud in their seats)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): If Members continue to shout in their seats, the meeting will be unable to proceed.
Mr HUI Chi-fung, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): President, he did not answer my question. He did not commit himself to telling the frontline police officers to stop meting out extrajudicial punishment. Is this tantamount to giving police officers tacit consent or encouraging them to do so? I have seen it with my own eyes. I was on the front line on each occasion. The arrestee did not resist at all, but the police officer still lashed out at his head. You are actually lying, John LEE.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI, directly accusing a certain official of "lying" has been ruled as unparliamentary. Will you please withdraw the relevant remark.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1433
MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): I am now asking the Secretary if he is lying. This is a question.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, everything I said depicts the situation now frequently faced by the Police. What the Member said just now, in my view, did not reflect the truth because we have really seen such cases in which many people, especially physically strong ones, snatched the offender whom the police officer was keeping under control. We did see offenders being snatched. We did see police officers being attacked after making an arrest. I believe we should look at the whole picture.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Third question. Mr KWONG Chun-yu has informed me in advance that his question will be asked by Mr Andrew WAN on his behalf. I now call upon Mr Andrew WAN to ask the question.
Deploying police dogs for handling demonstrations
3. MR ANDREW WAN (in Cantonese): President, since June this year, the Police deployed on a number of occasions police dogs to assist in the handling of demonstrations. While the police officers all wore gas masks when firing tear gas rounds to disperse demonstrators, the police dogs at the scene had no protective gear. Some members of the public are concerned that tear gas is hazardous to the health of the police dogs. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the number of in-service police dogs which died of unnatural causes in each of the past three years;
(2) of the number of occasions since June this year on which the Police deployed police dogs for handling demonstrations; among such occasions, the number of those involving the firing of tear gas rounds at the scene of the demonstrations, and the number of police dogs which fell sick after carrying out duties and were treated by veterinary surgeons; and 1434 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
(3) whether the Police will consider not to deploy police dogs to carry out duties at demonstrations again; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, members of the public enjoy the freedom of expression, speech and assembly but they must do so peacefully and lawfully. The Police have been facilitating the conduct of peaceful, orderly and lawful public order events while fulfilling their statutory duty of maintaining public safety and public order. The Police will, after assessing the situation at the scene, make professional judgment and take appropriate actions to maintain law and order and public peace.
Since early June this year, there have been over 700 public demonstrations, processions and assemblies, among which many have ended up in violence. Rioters have committed various unlawful acts, such as blocking roads, setting fire, charging police cordon lines, throwing bricks, hurling petrol bombs, violently assaulting police officers, vandalizing MTR and Light Rail facilities as well as traffic lights, damaging shops, assaulting others with different views wantonly and committing arson. The Police must take actions for bringing rioters to justice or dispersing those rioters to control the situation, with a view to restoring public safety and public order as soon as possible.
Tear gas is used to stop violent radicals at the scene from charging police cordon lines or continuing with their other violent acts, creating a safe distance and minimizing physical scuffles for avoiding serious injuries. People gathered should leave the scene immediately when tear gas is being used. Generally speaking, people inhaling tear gas would have temporary burning sensation to the skin and eyes and stimulation to the nose and throat. One could recover within a short period of time after leaving the place affected by tear gas.
Similar to other modern police forces overseas, the Police deploy police dogs as appropriate to assist in law enforcement. Police dogs could help police officers handle violent acts, unlawful assemblies, disruption of public order, etc. Specific tasks of police dogs under such circumstances usually include assisting frontline police officers to deal with violent and harassing acts, reinforcing police cordon lines and guarding specific buildings or locations. During police dispersal of unlawfully assembled crowds, police dogs could effectively deter illegal acts by breachers of public peace at the scene.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1435
My reply to the various parts of Mr KWONG's question is as follows:
(1) No in-service police dogs died of unnatural causes in the past three years.
(2) and (3)
As mentioned above, upon risk assessment of a public order event and the situation at the scene, the Police will, as one of their deployment actions, send police dogs to the scene as appropriate to assist frontline officers in law enforcement.
Police dogs are vigorously trained and receive regular health checks to ensure that they have good nutrition and sufficient rest, and are physically fit to perform duties assigned by the Police. In general, police dogs are deployed to work at emergency units and police districts. They work closely with various frontline squads during police operations for maintaining public and social order and handling emergency situations.
The Police do not have the number of occasions since June this year on which the Police deployed police dogs for handling public demonstrations, processions, assemblies, etc. The Police have not received from handlers reports of their dogs falling sick after carrying out duties during operations in recent months.
The Police pay great attention to the health of police dogs and their working environment. Led by dedicated handlers on a one-to-one basis, police dogs are trained to obey orders from their handlers who build a strong bonding with them by attending to all their needs. Constantly looking after and paying attention to the physical health and needs of police dogs, handlers will arrange immediate check and treatment by veterinary surgeons once their dogs are found feeling unwell. In fact, all members of the Police Dog Unit are very concerned about the health condition of their dogs. During and after operations, they will pay immediate attention to the physical reactions of their dogs and give them appropriate care. Members of the Police Dog Unit will also attend to the various physiological 1436 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
needs of the dogs. Apart from arranging veterinary surgeons to follow up on police dogs that are sick, handlers will maintain close contact with the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department ("AFCD") and other relevant departments to ensure the health of police dogs.
MR ANDREW WAN (in Cantonese): President, no wonder Members are agitated and dissatisfied. Look at this main reply given by the Secretary. Half of it has nothing to do with the main question. Half of the preceding part is totally irrelevant.
President, in parts (2) and (3) of the main reply there is a point which I think is senseless and unscientific. The Secretary's reply to my question about whether police dogs would have their health compromised after inhaling tear gas is that "[p]olice dogs are vigorously trained and receive regular health checks to ensure that they have good nutrition and sufficient rest". If it is written here that "police officers are vigorously trained and receive regular health checks to ensure that they have good nutrition and sufficient rest", does it mean that the police officers need not wear masks? This is just ridiculous! I have here a specific question for him. Have the authorities conducted any scientific studies by, for instance, drawing reference from local or overseas academic literature, on the impact of having inhaled tear gas on the health of animals, including police dogs, in order to understand how the health of animals will be affected after they have inhaled tear gas? President, this main reply is absolutely unscientific.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, the Police certainly attach great importance to the health of police dogs, and each handler and the dog under his charge have built up a relationship comparable to partnership, and the handlers have kept a close watch on the health of police dogs. Certainly, in the deployment of police dogs, we will draw reference from overseas practices. In foreign or Western countries, police dogs are also deployed to take part in police operations for handling public events, and their practices are also similar to ours in Hong Kong. In foreign countries, not only police dogs but other animals, such as horses, are also used for handling public events. So, in respect of the use of police dogs or other animals to assist the Police in handling large-scale LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1437 public order events, the practices adopted by the Police are no different from those overseas. Of course, we will draw reference from certain literature concerning the approaches of deployment as well as the handling and use of police dogs.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary mentioned examples in foreign countries, but do the police in foreign countries fire tear gas rounds wantonly right in front of police dogs and horses? He gave a lengthy reply, yet he did not answer even the simplest question. Why is it that when firing tear gas rounds, police officers all wore gas masks but the police dogs had none put on them? On these two pages of the main reply, he did not answer this question at all. What did they say at the press conference? They said that the police dogs did not show abnormalities such as sneezing and scratching, and they, therefore, considered the health of the police dogs completely normal.
President, in his main reply the Secretary said that the Police did not have the number of occasions on which police dogs were deployed to assist in handling public demonstrations, processions, assemblies, etc. He went on to say that the Police had not received from handlers reports of their dogs falling sick after carrying out duties. Then, in what ways are the authorities monitoring the handlers? How can they ascertain whether the handlers had been derelict in their duties or concealing anything? If the Police do not even have the figures, how can the authorities exercise monitoring?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, we have no objection to views on stepping up efforts in this respect to enable us to attach greater emphasis to the health of police dogs, and we always give consideration to how police dogs should be taken care of.
In reality, as a first step, it is our practice that on receipt of any report showing any reaction of the police dogs or when we discovered abnormalities in them, veterinary surgeons will be engaged immediately for follow-up. This is the first point. Second, as I said in the main reply earlier, we will maintain communication and hold seminars with AFCD in this respect. In foreign countries, when police dogs are deployed for handling these kinds of incidents, the equipment of the police dogs and the gears used on them are the same as those in Hong Kong. Therefore, we consider that in the deployment of police dogs for 1438 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 handling certain types of work, our practices are no different from those in foreign countries; besides, with regard to the care of police dogs, we consider that our objective has been met.
That said, I think in this respect, we can further follow up on requiring handlers to report to their supervisors after every operation to ensure that the police dogs are healthy.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): President, he did not answer my …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, please point out the part of your supplementary question that has not been answered.
MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): During World War II, even the military dogs of the Nazi troops in Germany had gas masks put on them, and how dare he mention overseas experience. My supplementary question is here. As he has said that the Police do not have the figures relating to the deployment of police dogs, then how can they monitor the handlers and ascertain whether they have made reports? The absence of reports does not mean that the police dogs are fine.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): As I have said repeatedly, every handler cares about his dog very much. As for Mr CHAN's views, I can convey them to the Police, so that they can look into how management can be enhanced in this respect.
MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Cantonese): President, as far as I understand it, the deployment of police dogs to carry out duties in demonstrations is, to a certain extent, intended to create a deterrent effect. However, has the Secretary noticed that the current situation is actually very chaotic and dangerous? It is already LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1439 very dangerous to the Police, let alone police dogs. Therefore, whether or not police dogs should be deployed to take part in operations is an issue which I believe the Secretary should give more detailed consideration to.
I have this supplementary question. I notice that quite a large number of retired working dogs have had some injuries sustained while they were in service, and their conditions are more serious than those of pet dogs in general. According to some people who have adopted these working dogs, they have to foot very expensive medical bills in taking care of these dogs.
May I ask the Secretary whether the Government can let these retired working dogs enjoy medical benefits, just as the retired civil servants do, by allowing them to receive free medical consultation and treatment provided by the veterinary surgeons of AFCD?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, I will convey to the Police the Member's views on the use of police dogs in large-scale public events.
Second, I understand that Members love and care about dogs very much, and I believe the Police love and care about dogs too, especially the dog handlers in the Police Force because as I have just said, they have established close partnership with each other. If a police dog, after its retirement, is adopted by a kind-hearted person, I believe this kind-hearted person must care very much about the dog, and I also believe he will take very good care of the health of the dog and attend to its medical needs by all means. Of course, we understand that concerning how we can offer assistance to dog lovers to enable them to better care for the retired police dogs, that is a point that warrants our thought.
However, from the perspective of the use of public coffers, I believe the issue of providing subsidies for this purpose would require careful studies. But the adopters of retired police dogs with whom we have contacted all adopted the dogs out of love for them, and a vast majority of them think that they can take care of the dogs by themselves both in terms of their ability and financial capacity. But if individual adopters are really in need of assistance, actually the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals can provide some assistance, so that some medical services required by the dogs may be provided in circumstances more commensurate with their owners' financial capacity.
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MR WONG TING-KWONG (in Cantonese): President, some information online has pointed out that since June this year, the Police have deployed police dogs for handling demonstrations and riots and that these police dogs died after carrying out duties on those occasions. Whether such news is true or not is hard to tell. I notice that the Police have already made clarifications in the social media, but animal rights concern groups or general members of the public may not necessarily pay attention to the Police's posts on Facebook. My concern is that if they have not seen these messages publicized by the Police, they will not know the truth. So, I would like to ask whether the Police have taken the initiative to get in touch with the relevant animal rights groups, so as to explain to them the situation of the enforcement actions and clarify the facts.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): I thank the Member for his question. I understand that this question is raised out of our love for dogs. We all love animals. In this regard, we do not have the relevant details. But I will reflect these views to the Hong Kong Police Force ("HKPF") when I go back, so that they can strive for continuous improvement in this area of work.
However, I must stress that generally speaking, when deciding on the deployment of police dogs for carrying out duties, it is indeed necessary to take into account many factors. Apart from the ability of the police dogs to assist in the handling of certain duties, it is also necessary to consider the well-being of police dogs. In this connection, regarding the deployment of police dogs for handling large-scale public events, I will convey to HKPF the factors for consideration mentioned by Members earlier, with a view to enabling HKPF to fully consider various factors in making deployment in future.
To ensure the well-being of police dogs, AFCD will always provide professional and technical input in its communication with the Police, and it also often sends veterinary surgeons to conduct checks on police dogs. It is right to communicate more with animal rights groups for they may also provide input for the Police to address more effectively the series of issues relating to police dogs. I will convey these views to the Police.
MR CHU HOI-DICK (in Cantonese): President, it is said in the main reply that the Police do not have the number of occasions on which police dogs were deployed for carrying out duties, and I consider this rather strange because it is LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1441 written here that the police dogs are led by their handlers on a one-to-one basis when carrying out duties. There must be records about the dog handlers reporting to work, the duties undertaken by them at work, whether they had been to the scenes of demonstrations, and so on. It is impossible that they do not have these records. Therefore, I absolutely cannot accept this point.
President, I believe John LEE will not say that he considers it acceptable for police officers to inhale tear gas without protective gears. I would like to put a question to the Secretary in another way. Is it acceptable to the Police and AFCD for police dogs to inhale tear gas without protective gears?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, regarding my reply earlier, I wish to make it clear to Members that when I said that we did not have the number of occasions on which police dogs were deployed to assist in the handling of public order events, I was not referring to the general number of occasions on which police dogs were deployed for carrying out duties. This is the first point.
Second, Members should understand that when police dogs are deployed to carry out duties involving processions and demonstrations, it is not the case that tear gas rounds will invariably be fired on every such occasion. Therefore, the Police will take into account the circumstances comprehensively in considering the deployment of police dogs. If something happened at the scene which necessitated deployment actions in response to the situation at the scene, such as the deployment of police dogs, the Police will certainly make consideration. So, Members should understand that it is not true that the use of tear gas will be involved whenever police dogs are deployed.
Furthermore, when we studied the deployment of police dogs with overseas police forces, we found that we took very similar factors into consideration. The factors that they take into consideration in making deployment are very similar to ours. In dealing with sudden changes at the scenes, the corresponding actions taken by them are also very similar to the deployment made by HKPF in relation to police dogs. What I mean is that in making decisions on deployment and how deployment can be made flexibly at the time in response to the changes at the scene, the Police will give full consideration to the situation and also attach importance to protecting the due interests of police dogs.
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHU Hoi-dick, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR CHU HOI-DICK (in Cantonese): He really did not answer my question. I asked him whether he considered it acceptable for police dogs to inhale tear gas without protective gears, and if he considered it unacceptable, the police dogs should then be sent away when tear gas rounds are fired. It is just this simple. Does he consider it acceptable or unacceptable? It is because this involves not only the Police but also AFCD, President.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHU, you have already pointed out the part of your supplementary question that has not been answered. Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): I believe I have already answered the Member's supplementary question.
(Mr Andrew WAN indicated his wish to raise a point of order)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Andrew WAN, what is your point of order?
MR ANDREW WAN (in Cantonese): President, I have noticed time and again that in response to questions asked by the pro-establishment colleagues, the Secretary would thank the Member for his or her question. I have found him consistently refraining from replying to colleagues in the pro-democracy camp in the same manner, just as what he did earlier on. May I ask if this is a new style of the Government? Will you remind him that for the sake of decency …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr WAN, this is not a point of order. Please sit down. Regarding the request made by the Member, I believe the official will take note of it.
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Fourth question. Mr Paul TSE.
Hardship of the shop operators in Lei Yue Mun tourist area
4. MR PAUL TSE (in Cantonese): President, it has been reported that with Hong Kong experiencing months of social turmoil, many industries have become languished, and the numbers of Mainland and overseas visitors have plunged (e.g. the number of visitor arrivals from the Mainland during the "National Day Golden Week" has dropped drastically by 56% to a record low in nine years). The number of visitors to Lei Yue Mun, a famous tourist area in Kowloon East, has dropped significantly as well. As a result, a large number of tourism-related shops have closed down one after another. Earlier on, the Financial Secretary has introduced a $19.1 billion package of measures to "support enterprises, safeguard jobs and relieve people's burden" ("relief measures"), which include a 50% rental reduction for a period of six months for most short-term tenancies of government land for business use under the Lands Department ("LandsD") and for public market stalls. However, some shop operators in Lei Yue Mun and the District Council members of the district have relayed to me that the aforesaid shop operators have successively received notices from LandsD that their rentals will be raised by 7% shortly. They are afraid that such rental increase will give rise to a wave of closure of these shops, thereby leading to the fading out of a world-renowned tourist attraction in Hong Kong. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) as some members of the public have criticized that the Government's policies are self-contradictory in that on the one hand it has implemented the relief measures and injected several million dollars to promote local gourmet food, but on the other hand it raises the rentals of shop operators in Lei Yue Mun who are facing operating difficulties, whether LandsD has, prior to making the rental increase decision, discussed with the policy bureau and government departments in charge of tourism affairs as well as the affected shop operators, so as to gain an understanding of the rate of decrease in the number of visitors to Lei Yue Mun since the eruption of the disturbances arising from opposition to proposed legislative amendments, as well as the pressure of rental increase to be borne by the shop operators in Lei Yue Mun; if so, of the reasons for LandsD's insistence on effecting the rental increase; if not, the reasons for that; 1444 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
(2) whether it has assessed if the persistent decrease in visitors to Hong Kong and LandsD vigorously effecting the rental increase will compel more restaurants and shops in that district to close down one after another before and after the Lunar New Year holiday; and
(3) as some members of the public have criticized that with the two theme parks, namely the Ocean Park Hong Kong and the Hong Kong Disneyland, being "on saline drip" and operating with a loss, and local tourist attractions having, for a long time, "lived on established advantages" only, whether the authorities will step up publicity for Lei Yue Mun as a tourist attraction which has scenery of a traditional fishing village and offers gourmet seafood, and supplement such initiative with effective policies, e.g. reducing rentals directly, with a view to helping Lei Yue Mun maintain its appeal to visitors?
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr Paul TSE for raising the question. The persisting protests and social unrest in recent months have resulted in disruption to law and order, thereby causing a dramatic drop in the tourist arrivals. Local consumption has also been hit hard. Coupled with the austere external economic environment, the Hong Kong economy has been seriously affected while the tourism and related sectors have in particular suffered a heavy blow.
To relieve the business operation pressure faced by the enterprises, the Government has announced three rounds of measures to support enterprises and safeguard jobs since mid-August with a view to assisting different sectors in reducing operating costs, financing, developing markets, etc. One of the measures is rental reduction by 50% for six months with effect from 1 October this year for tenancies under various government departments, including the Lands Department ("LandsD"), the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department, the Government Property Agency, the Marine Department, the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department and the Leisure and Cultural Services Department. The tenancies involved include catering establishments, retail stores, public market stalls, fee-paying public car parks.
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Having consulted the Development Bureau and LandsD, my reply to the question raised by Mr TSE is as follows:
(1) and (2)
There are currently 19 Short Term Tenancies ("STTs") sites in Lei Yue Mun ("LYM") being used for Chinese restaurants and seafood/grocery stalls or other purposes. These tenants are already benefiting from the aforementioned measure. In other words, the tenants will enjoy a rental reduction by 50% for six months from 1 October, which is applicable to rent payable during those six months.
Meanwhile, under the existing mechanism, LandsD generally conducts rent review for each STT every three years according to the tenancy conditions to reflect the latest level of market rent. In accordance with this mechanism, LandsD has earlier conducted rent review for those 19 STTs in LYM to determine the rent for the three years commencing from January 2020. The rent review showed that the rent payable can be increased by about 6.6% over the level three years ago if it is to reflect the latest level of market rent. LandsD informed the tenants of the rent review result in September this year. Nonetheless, having considered the current economic and social situation, LandsD has informed the tenants concerned that there is no need to pay regard to the rent review result for the time being for LandsD's further review on the arrangement. In other words, the 19 tenants are currently not subject to the rent increase of 6.6% as originally proposed. I have also informed Mr TSE of the above situation before this meeting for his relaying the message to the tenants.
At the moment, the Government is looking into the handling of the rent review arrangement for tenancies under LandsD. Depending on the outcome of the review, the Government will further consider whether additional measures should be introduced to assist businesses to cope with the challenging economic environment at present.
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(3) Characterized as a traditional fishing village, LYM is one of the popular tourist spots in Hong Kong. The Hong Kong Tourism Board ("HKTB") has been promoting the diverse tourism appeal and unique experiences of LYM, including the nearby attractions such as the seafood village and the Jockey Club Lei Yue Mun Plus through different channels, including website, visitor centres, visitor hotline, etc. Besides, HKTB has also been promoting LYM travel products operated by the travel trade, including the gourmet tours at the seafood village.
Besides, with a view to enhancing the attractiveness of LYM as a seafood-dining destination with its pleasant seaside ambience, the Tourism Commission has been actively pursuing the implementation of the Lei Yue Mun Waterfront Enhancement Project ("LYM Project") to improve facilities along LYM waterfront. The scope of the LYM Project includes the construction of a public landing facility, a breakwater and a waterfront promenade; the provision of several lookout points and streetscape improvement works along the footpath linking up the lookout points; as well as the construction of a new viewing platform, etc. Recently, the Government has obtained the support of the local community, including shop operators, the respective District Council and the Harbourfront Commission for the LYM Project. We target to seek funding support from the Legislative Council for the LYM Project in 2020. Subject to funding approval, the construction works are expected to commence in late 2020 for completion by phases from 2022 to 2024. We believe that upon the completion of the Project, the attractiveness of LYM to tourists would be enhanced and would thus help further promote the local economy. HKTB will continue to promote the diverse tourism appeal of LYM to tourists alongside with the LYM Project.
MR PAUL TSE (in Cantonese): President, very regrettably, while we are talking about beverages, food and travelling here, Hong Kong is actually in dire straits right now. We hold that it is necessary to attract Mainland tourists to visit the Disneyland, Ocean Park and LYM in Hong Kong, yet we all saw this morning the shocking pictures of students being evacuated at the Ma Liu Shui Pier. I do not LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1447 know how to explain to the tourists and call on them to come to Hong Kong. This is really heartbreaking to the Chinese people and has brought Hong Kong people into disrepute.
Nevertheless, President, we still have to move on and look into the situation to find the right timing to vigorously pursue some work. It is not only about promoting LYM as a tourist attraction, but the tourism industry of Hong Kong as a whole. How can we truly give―not to say tourists―but all compatriots in China a relatively positive impression of Hong Kong? In this connection, what measures does the Secretary, as one of the most important officials in charge of economic affairs, have in place?
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, I would like to thank Mr TSE for his question. I also agree that, under the prevailing circumstances, if the demonstrations and clashes in society persist or some situations endangering the life or property of ordinary people have even occurred, such that the situations in Hong Kong are being reported in the international media, it would be of no avail even if we roll out a bunch of relief measures.
Having said that, we must continue to carry out our work in different aspects at this difficult time: First, presently 40 countries over the world have issued tourist advice on Hong Kong, we will keep on liaising with these countries and provide them with some accurate information and facts. I have provided information in this regard through our overseas offices, HKTB and all international chambers of commerce in Hong Kong, etc. respectively.
Second, it is very important that despite a drop in the tourist arrivals, a certain number of tourists are still coming to Hong Kong, among which many of them are tourists-cum-businessmen. In this regard, we will continue to enhance measures to receive these travellers, and travel agencies or host organizations would usually take a further step in this respect to ensure that travellers can stay safe and do what they want to during their stay in Hong Kong.
Third, in view of the difficult time at present, the Government has all along been giving support to the tourism industry, including the various measures introduced since August and September, especially those announced in October. I will continue to work with the relevant Members to explore ways to offer support to the industry, with a view to beefing up the relevant work.
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MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, the question raised by Mr Paul TSE has not only highlighted the problem of LYM. In fact, one to two months ago, Mr SHIU Ka-fai also raised at a meeting of the Hong Kong Housing Authority the problem that the Housing Department had implemented a rent reduction on one hand, but indicated on the other that rent increases would be effected upon renewal of tenancies. In view of this, I hope the Secretary can remind other government departments, and I believe everyone is aware that, they must be more sensitive to society.
I would like to ask the Secretary a supplementary question which may not be an issue under his purview, but can he relay it to the Financial Secretary? As we see the Li Ka Shing Foundation recently offering assistance amounting to $200 million to restaurants, and the Liberal Party has also made a suggestion to the Chief Executive in relation to the policy address, can the Government offer a cash handout actually? Second, restaurants are now encountering liquidity difficulties, hence I have repeatedly proposed that the Government should re-launch the 100% loan guarantee scheme which was launched in 2003 for application by micro, small and medium enterprises to enable them to pay the wages of their employees. Can the authorities discuss with the Financial Secretary as soon as possible on the early implementation of a 100% loan guarantee scheme? It would allow the industry to obtain bank loans as expeditiously as possible, so that they can at least pay their employees' wages and thereby saving their employees from being unable to make ends meet, in particular at this point of time when the Lunar New Year is just around the corner.
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, I would like to thank the Member for his suggestions and supplementary question. I will convey to the relevant departments the various suggestions made by him just now. First, in regard to rent reduction and among the measures introduced in August and October, generally speaking, we have in fact reduced by half the existing rents payable by restaurants for a period of six months provided that the Government is the landlord and that it is feasible. We are refining this measure, especially to review whether there are any omissions so as to pursue the work in this respect.
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I agree with Mr CHEUNG's view regarding the cash flow and liquidity problems. We will basically work in three directions in a bid to ride out the difficulties with the industry in the meantime, one of which is the cash flow and liquidity problems. In addition to extending the period of the existing scheme which provides 80% credit guarantee, reducing the relevant fees, and extending the repayment period, we also plan to introduce a new credit product by raising the credit guarantee ratio from 80% currently to 90%. In this regard, my thanks go to the relevant committee for lending us support last week. With this new product, the Government can provide 90% credit guarantee for loans up to $6 million repayable within five years. Subject to approval by the Legislative Council, the additional commitment of the Government will amount to $33 billion. Certainly, we are also aware that there are currently 40-odd items pending scrutiny by the Finance Committee of the Legislative Council, but I still hope that the relevant product can be launched at an early date.
As for the question of whether the credit guarantee can be increased to 100%, in this regard, we must consider the actual situation because a 90% credit guarantee is already a very high level, manifesting a great step taken forward by the Government and the banks. Is there a need to provide a guarantee at 100%? I can recall that the authorities implemented a small-scale scheme for a short period of time in 2003. This time we will launch a new product which offers 90% credit guarantee on top of the one providing a credit guarantee of 80%, it is our hope that it can make up the deficiency of the existing scheme. That said, I will also convey to the relevant policy bureaux/departments Mr CHEUNG's views.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Tommy CHEUNG, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Cantonese): The Secretary has not answered my supplementary question. I asked him whether he would recommend the Chief Executive to offer a cash handout to restaurants, similar to that offered by the Li Ka Shing Foundation …
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHEUNG, you have pointed out the part of your supplementary question that has not been answered. Please sit down. Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, apart from resolving cash flow and liquidity problems, as well as reducing government fees with the aim of lowering costs, we have also provided targeted assistance for various industries under the three aspects of work that I have mentioned just now. There is certainly some order of priority in such work, with emphasis laid on assisting the affected industries that are the first to bear the brunt. Yet, we also welcome any well-intentioned parties in society to join us in tiding over the difficulties with the industries. Nonetheless, Members need to understand that there are certain restrictions on the use of public funds. Regarding our support measures, such as the provision of cash incentive payments for travel agencies, the conditions adopted are rather loose. We hope to benefit the enterprises and also those engaging in the industry, which is in line with the direction of "supporting enterprises and safeguarding jobs" proposed by the Financial Secretary. I welcome any other views in this respect and we will take them into consideration as well.
MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): President, I agree with Mr TSE that what we can do is very limited with regard to the difficulties currently faced by the tourism industry in Hong Kong, among which the most important task is to stop violence and curb disorder. If we fail to stop violence and curb disorder, we can only address the pressing needs in the short run even if the Government introduces more measures. Just now the Secretary mentioned in the main reply the diverse tourism appeal and unique experiences of LYM. In fact, we also see that in addition to the seafood village and the Jockey Club Lei Yue Mun Plus, Devil's Peak is also located at LYM where we can go hiking, visit the Tin Hau Temple which has a history of more than 200 years and the lighthouse built 50-odd years ago. What is more, with a pier nearby and an MTR station also in the vicinity, LYM can be said to be a unique tourist area. In this regard, we notice that the Government and HKTB have respectively launched the "Old Town Central" campaign and the "Hong Kong Neighbourhoods-Sham Shui Po" campaign in recent years. I hope the Secretary can study whether LYM can be made the third tourist spot for targeted promotion, with a view to strengthening the development of diversified tourist attractions in Hong Kong other than relying on the existing man-made spots.
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SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): My thanks go to Mr YIU Si-wing for his supplementary question and views. We agree that LYM has inherent edges on the historical, cultural and geographical fronts, and that it holds a certain appeal to foreign tourists. Therefore, while HKTB has already included LYM in its promotion work presently, as stated in the main reply, the enhancement project to be carried out at the waterfront of LYM can also highlight the local characteristics and enhance the attractiveness of LYM to tourists. The Project will include the construction of a public landing facility so that if water taxi services are introduced in the future, visitors can also reach LYM by sea transport apart from land transport, as suggested by Mr YIU. In addition, we will adopt a new design in the construction of a viewing platform, and also introduce some designs that match with the existing features of a fishing village, so as to enhance the attractiveness of the district.
As Mr YIU mentioned, we have also launched in recent years campaigns for some selected districts with characteristics, such as Sham Shui Po District and Wan Chai District, with a view to enhancing the districts' attractiveness to tourists and highlighting their local characteristics. We will continue to consider launching more of such campaigns. In addition, we hope to carry out the project to improve the facilities along LYM waterfront as expeditiously as possible after securing funding approval in the coming year.
MR SHIU KA-FAI (in Cantonese): For a start, I would like to thank Mr Paul TSE for his concern about the shop operators and restaurants at LYM. In fact, as many members of the public are aware, the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance has given rise to an extremely difficult time now faced by all industries such as the tourism, catering, retail, wholesale and hotel industries, etc.
In addition to the aforesaid industries, some businessmen engaging in trade have also been affected. For instance, a beauty fair of the largest scale in the Asia Pacific Region would be held at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre ("HKCEC") today, but many merchants told me that, first, a great many overseas clients had indicated that they would not come this year; second, the riots in these few days had made it impossible for them to set up the booths today, since their employees did not manage to get to the venue at all.
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May I ask the Secretary what measures does the Government have in place to support or compensate these exhibitors being affected?
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, my thanks go to Mr SHIU Ka-fai for his question and views. I agree that we must make further efforts during this period of time. To my understanding, in the exhibition industry―especially trade shows―many host organizations or the Hong Kong Trade Development Council have undertaken plenty of extra work in receiving the clients, including the reception and transportation arrangements upon their arrival in Hong Kong.
If it is not safe in the streets, it will indeed render a lot of preparation work for exhibitions in vain. However, looking back at the situation in the past five months, I do not think it is completely pessimistic. Recently, I went to HKCEC to understand the circumstances and learnt that at least 14 large-scale exhibitions―such as the large-scale exhibition mentioned by Mr SHIU Ka-fai just now―were held as scheduled in the past five months. Since merchants had already decided to participate in the exhibitions at the early stage, there were no obvious changes in the number of exhibitors, with a single-digit rate of decrease recorded, whilst the number of visitors or participants dropped 20% on average. Notwithstanding this, there was a relatively positive phenomenon. According to the exhibitors, since those visiting the trade shows adopted a more serious attitude, they did not encounter any major problems in the course of discussing business deals. We will exert our utmost to carry out the work on this front.
As to the question of whether they will be offered compensation directly for the impact that they have suffered in a general sense, in this regard, it is indeed difficult for the Government to make such compensation with its funding. Nevertheless, I believe the only thing that we can do for the time being is to do a good job to the greatest extent in the security and reception arrangements through the host organizations and venue management to enable such events to be held as scheduled, just like the events which were successfully held in the past five months that I have mentioned earlier.
The exhibitors whom we have approached expressed that as long as they could make business deals successfully, upon returning to their countries they still considered that, from the perspective of doing business, Hong Kong could continue to offer strong business potential.
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now suspend the meeting until 2:40 pm.
1:37 pm
Meeting suspended.
2:40 pm
Council then resumed.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Fifth question. Mr Charles Peter MOK.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): President, I would like to raise a point of order first.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr MOK, what is your point of order?
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): When I came back from lunch just now, I saw that water-filled barriers were placed on the flyover, leaving merely a narrow gap for us to come in. Police officers checked our passes. I saw that Legislative Council staff also had to show their passes. The Legislative Council has not issued any red or amber alerts, but I understand that many visitors were obstructed and inconvenienced, and some even could not enter the Legislative Council Complex. Has the President been notified of this arrangement? What is going on at all? Is the martial law in force now? Will someone storm into the Legislative Council?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): First, this is not a point of order.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): We do not have other channel to enquire you about this. We have only but this way.
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Second, I had not had knowledge of such arrangement. I was informed by the Secretary General during lunch break that the Police had blocked that section of the flyover outside of the Legislative Council premises. You may make enquiries with the Government later on about the duties discharged by the police officers on the flyover. Mr Charles Peter MOK, please raise your question now.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): President, that flyover links to the Legislative Council Complex, so it does affect us. Even the section belonging to the Legislative Council Complex is blocked, do you not understand? Besides, since you were aware of such arrangement, why did you not notify all Members and staff? Only you were aware of it … President, I am only suggesting that you should do so.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Charles Peter MOK, please raise your main question.
Application of artificial intelligence and protection of personal data privacy
5. MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): It has been reported that the Hong Kong Police Force acquired systems with facial recognition function several years ago. Some members of the public are worried that the extensive collection and use of facial images and other biometric data by government departments, together with integration of the data from various databases, will enable the creation of personal data profiles or credit scoring systems. On the other hand, foreign countries have put in place legislation to regulate the application of biometric data to prevent members of the public from being subject to excessive monitoring, so as to protect human rights, including privacy. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it has studied if the following acts constitute an infringement upon privacy rights comparable to that of interception of communications and covert surveillance: tracking, monitoring and recording the movement and location of a data subject without his/her consent and profiling of personal data through integrating the big data collected from the public domain; if it has studied and the outcome is in the affirmative, whether the Government will LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1455
(a) widen the definition of "covert surveillance" under the Interception of Communications and Surveillance Ordinance, thereby subjecting law enforcement agencies, in their applying facial recognition and related artificial intelligence ("AI") technologies, to the requirement of obtaining authorization and to the oversight of the Commissioner on Interception of Communications and Surveillance, and (b) prohibit law enforcement agencies from applying such technologies before the law is amended; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(2) whether, in reviewing the Personal Data (Privacy) Ordinance, it will make reference to the European Union General Data Protection Regulation and introduce regulation on automated decision making and personal data profiling, to the effect that a data subject has the right to object to his/her personal data being used in automated decision making, and the right to demand from public and private organizations an explanation on the criteria adopted for making the relevant decisions, so as to ensure that the application of facial recognition systems and AI is consistent with the principles of transparency, fairness and respect for human rights; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and
(3) whether, in formulating the Smart City Blueprint for Hong Kong 2.0, it will establish guiding principles relating to the ethical standards and privacy protection in respect of AI and data application, and make it mandatory for the Government to assess the human rights implications and pass through an independent ethical scrutiny in its research and development as well as procurement of data analysis-related technologies (including facial and image recognition), and to explain to the affected persons the operating principles of the relevant technologies before applying them, so as to reduce the adverse impacts as far as possible; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, my reply to the different parts of the question raised by Mr Charles Peter MOK, based on the information provided by the Security Bureau, the Innovation and Technology Bureau and the Office of the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data ("PCPD"), is as follows: 1456 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
(1) The Interception of Communications and Surveillance Ordinance ("ICSO") provides a stringent statutory framework for regulating the conduct of interception and covert surveillance operations by law enforcement agencies ("LEAs"). Since its implementation in 2006, ICSO has all along been effective in supporting the operations of LEAs, while striking a balance between maintaining law and order and protecting the privacy rights of individuals.
As to LEAs, any operation that constitutes a covert surveillance operation under ICSO must be authorized by a panel judge or a designated authorizing officer. All applications for authorization must meet the stringent conditions as prescribed in ICSO, i.e. the operation must be for the purpose of "preventing or detecting serious crimes or protecting public security", and must meet the "proportionality" and "necessity" tests. Moreover, each stage of the authorized operation is subject to stringent control under ICSO. The Commissioner on Interception of Communications and Surveillance also monitors the implementation of various requirements under ICSO by LEAs concerned.
(2) Alongside with the rapid development of information technology, technological advancement in artificial intelligence ("AI"), machine learning and other fields has made it easier for organizations to replace human decision-making with "automated decision-making" technology. According to the General Data Protection Regulation of the European Union, a data subject shall have the right to opt not to be subject to a decision based solely on "automated processing", including "profiling", which produces legal effects concerning or similarly significantly affects him or her, save for a few exemptions. From the perspective of safeguarding personal data privacy, personal data privacy is one of the factors for consideration in regulating "automated decision-making". Given that the Personal Data (Privacy) Ordinance ("PDPO") is a technology-neutral legislation, data users shall comply with the Data Protection Principles ("DPPs") under PDPO, including the principles governing the purpose of data collection, data security and data use, regardless of the type of technology used to process personal data. The use of personal data in "automated decision-making" shall also be bound by these DPPs. For instance, data subjects should be notified of the purpose(s) of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1457
data collection, such as processing by "automated decision-making", before or during personal data collection. In PCPD's practical recommendations for data users regarding Privacy Impact Assessment, data users are encouraged to assess the impact of relevant personal data policies and procedures on personal data privacy, and the scope of the assessment should cover data processing cycle analysis and how to avoid or reduce privacy risks, etc. In light of the development of new technologies, PCPD has provided specific guidelines for various sectors. For instance, in the information leaflets on Fintech previously issued by PCPD, organizations are advised to develop transparent privacy policies and practices when using big data analytics to assess individuals' financial standing for the purpose of credit scoring, including to inform data subjects their rights with respect to their personal data (such as the right to be informed of the purpose(s) of data collection, and that of data access and correction).
(3) The Smart City Blueprint for Hong Kong ("the Blueprint"), published by the Innovation and Technology Bureau in 2017, has set out the vision to build Hong Kong into a world-leading smart city. It has put forward more than 70 initiatives under six smart areas, covering the building of digital infrastructure to promote smart city development, service provision by the Government and public organizations, as well as supporting measures to encourage the participation of public and private sectors in building a smart city. The Blueprint is the strategic document for the overall smart city development in Hong Kong. In the course of formulating and implementing various specific measures in the Blueprint, relevant Policy Bureaux and departments ("B/Ds") have to ensure that the implementation and operational details are in compliance with applicable laws and regulations, including relevant provisions for protecting personal data privacy, and to seek timely advice from the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data. The dedicated Smart City Portal
The Innovation and Technology Bureau is now conducting relevant review in conjunction with various B/Ds, with a view to releasing the Smart City Blueprint for Hong Kong 2.0 ("Blueprint 2.0") in 1458 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
2020. In formulating the Blueprint 2.0, the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer ("OGCIO") will arrange public engagement activities (such as focus groups) and exchanges with the industries in order to gauge views from the industries and the public on various important issues, such as exploring how to enhance information security and protect personal data privacy when adopting different technologies.
With reference to the latest development in other places, OGCIO has planned to commence a study in 2020 to work out a set of technical guidelines on the application of AI and big data analytics for internal adoption within the Government, including the handling of ethical and privacy issues arising from such application, in order to assist government departments in planning and applying emerging technologies like AI and big data analytics. OGCIO will liaise closely with PCPD in the course of the study.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): I thought only Secretary NIP would be present today, so I was worried about to whom I should ask follow up questions. It is so much better to see that the Secretary for Innovation and Technology is also here. Actually, part (1) of the main question should have been replied by the Security Bureau. I feel that the Security Bureau really slipped the Secretary with a banana peel by providing such a reply. I asked if the Government would widen the definition of "covert surveillance" under ICSO, and I consider my suggestion very effective in enhancing public confidence in the use of AI and facial recognition technologies by the Government which would be put under proper regulation. However, the Secretary and the Government did not reply at all but only gave an explanation of ICSO which I do not need. The Secretary did not mention at all whether he will give consideration to the definition concerned, so I know it is pointless to follow up in this regard.
My supplementary question is here. It has been reported that the Police has acquired and been using systems with facial recognition function since several years without letting the public know. In response to Members' questions at another meeting, OGCIO under the Innovation and Technology Bureau stated that this was unknown to them because the Police was not required to consult them. This is no different from the Food and Health Bureau not knowing the ingredients of the blue water. Is this possible? Are the Police LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1459 unregulated? Is this the reason why the Security Bureau dares not come here to reply? I want to ask the Bureau whether the Police are unregulated. The Innovation and Technology Bureau should give advice to various departments on technology use, but the Police may choose to notify the Bureau or not? The Police may request funding or choose to self-finance it, is that right?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Which Secretary will answer this supplementary question? Secretary for Innovation and Technology, please.
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr MOK for the supplementary question. I believe my colleague has explained clearly that various departments have full discretion to decide which types of technology they would use. We are ready to provide assistance if they encounter any technological problems. This may be slightly different from the example he cited just now. Government departments apply various technologies according to their operational needs. OGCIO offers technological support to various departments and assist them in introducing suitable technological solutions, including solutions for pursuing smart city development in Hong Kong.
The facial recognition technology referred to by Mr MOK is quite a mature technology applicable to various aspects, such as immigration control. It is a technology and approach widely adopted internationally. When applying facial recognition technology, departments and agencies must comply with the requirements under PDPO as well as the relevant law and regulations mentioned by Secretary NIP, in order to protect personal data privacy.
Therefore, I hope Mr MOK will understand the responsibilities of various government departments. We are not trying to shirk responsibilities, but our scope of duties is to assist other departments in applying technology. We will certainly conduct consultations and inform Members of the outcomes through various panels. This is all that I can say.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): President, he has not answered my question. My question was that the Police had been using these technologies for several years according to news reports while the department responsible for 1460 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 information technology was completely unaware of the situation. Are the Police not required to consult the relevant departments? I want to confirm this point: the Police are unregulated under the current mechanism. Can the Secretary confirm this point? Can he confirm that this situation exists indeed?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): I do not have much to add. As I have just said, various departments have full discretion to decide the types of technology they use according to their needs. We will provide departments with relevant information if they encounter any questions on the technology.
MR DENNIS KWOK (in Cantonese): President, the question raised by Mr Charles Peter MOK is actually very clear, but the Secretary obviously evaded the question repeatedly. I give the Secretary another chance to reply Mr Charles Peter MOK's question clearly.
SECRETARY FOR INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY (in Cantonese): President, my reply just now is very clear. If Member insists, I invite him to reconsider my reply just now.
MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Cantonese): Has the Secretary replied already? President, insofar as facial recognition is concerned, facial features are actually very sensitive personal data. The privacy legislation in Australia, European Union and the United Kingdom also regulates sensitive personal information, in addition to regulating personal data. I would like to ask the two Secretaries, given the widespread application of facial recognition technology, whether the Administration will amend PDPO expeditiously to regulate sensitive personal information so as to ensure more comprehensive protection for the public.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Which Secretary will answer this supplementary question? Secretary for Constitutional and Mainland Affairs, please.
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SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr Kenneth LEUNG for the supplementary question. Both facial recognition systems and sensitive personal information are personal data of which privacy must be protected. The continuous advancement in technology and emergence of new technologies have certainly given rise to concerns over personal data privacy and protection needs.
As I have said, given that PDPO is a technology-neutral legislation, in the event that concerns over personal data protection and privacy arise, data users, be it the Government, organizations or other users, have to strictly comply with DPPs, regardless of the type of technology used. For instance, data users must obtain the consent of a data subject or notify him/her how the data will be used.
Therefore, insofar as PDPO is concerned, as I have said just now, we are conducting a review with the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data. In light of public concerns over personal data and privacy protection arising from past social incidents, we are conducting a review to keep up with latest developments.
As I have mentioned just now, in conducting the review, we will seek advice from the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data on issues arising from new technologies and draw reference from latest developments around the world.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Kenneth LEUNG, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Cantonese): Since the Administration will review PDPO, will it classify certain types of personal data as sensitive personal information separately? This is a worldwide trend. The Secretary did not reply to this. Would he please reply this question direct?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): President, the overall direction of our amendments covers mandatory data breach notification, duration of retention and relevant penalties. According 1462 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 to my understanding, the current review does not cover Mr LEUNG's recommendation. However, upon his proposal, I am pleased to reflect his views to the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data.
MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): I find it strange that sensitive personal information was one of the options for discussion in last review eight years ago, but not covered in the review this time. Moreover, given the significant increase in quantity, sensitive personal information should have been covered. Why is the scope of review even narrower than last time? I really find it very strange.
President, the information in the main reply was provided by three departments. First, I would like to thank the two Secretaries because the reply for part (2) and (3) is way better than part (1) by the Security Bureau. Since the Secretary for Security is present, I do not want to waste time discussing his part. My supplementary question concerns the ongoing review on PDPO as mentioned by Mr Kenneth LEUNG just now. Although public consultation has yet to be conducted, internal review by the Administration has commenced. The Secretary stated in the main reply that data subjects should be notified of the purposes of data collection, such as processing by automated decision-making, before or during personal data collection. But this is not the case at all, actually. Has the Secretary read the General Data Protection Regulation ("GDPR")? GDPR stipulates that data subjects should also be notified of the processing method and given the right to opt-out. This is completely different from what he just said and is, therefore, worrying. On the one hand, the existing PDPO is very backward, and on the other hand, the consultations conducted by the authorities fail to keep up with the latest GDPR and European standards as they merely mention about raising penalties and adding a mechanism for mandatory data breach notification. That being the case, we will only continue to lag behind the rest of the world …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Charles Peter MOK, please raise your supplementary question.
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MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): President, my supplementary question is here. Given that the Secretary has said that the review does not cover sensitive personal information mentioned by Mr Kenneth LEUNG just now, will the Secretary consult the stakeholders before conducting public consultations to avoid omission of information in the results and rendering PDPO lagging behind others continuously; and when will the consultation be conducted? The Secretary has indicated earlier on that it would be conducted in the first half of this year, and it is already November now.
SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS (in Cantonese): I thank Mr MOK for the supplementary question. I need to clarify a few things. First, Members mentioned that the review conducted seven to eight years ago did cover sensitive personal information. Amendments have been made to relevant legislation since the last review. We will certainly respond to the concerns in society during the past period or the inadequacies of the legislation when conducting the review this time. For instance, the leakage of a large quantity of personal data by an organization last year has aroused public concern and a committee has been established subsequently. We will propose amendments and conduct the review in this direction. This is the first point.
Second, GDPR has been implemented in many countries since it came into effect in May 2018. In addition to looking at the provisions of PDPO, we should also incorporate in the review the situation and issues developed since its implementation. Hence, Mr MOK can rest assured that we will give due consideration to GDPR.
Moreover, insofar as timetable is concerned, we will first draw up a direction for the review. In the past few months, we have held panel discussions with stakeholders in a bid to gauge the concerns of various stakeholders, such as the information technology sector, data users and consumers, before drawing up the consultation proposal. The work in this respect has commenced and we will proceed expeditiously.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Last oral question.
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Handling the aftermath of social disturbances
6. DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, since June this year, the controversies arising from the proposals to amend the law concerning surrender of fugitive offenders have eventually turned into social disturbances, resulting in a large number of demonstrators being arrested and quite a number of shops and public facilities being vandalized. The Chief Executive has indicated in her Policy Address delivered earlier on that she will later invite community leaders, experts and academics to conduct an in‑depth and independent examination of the social conflicts in Hong Kong and the deep‑rooted problems that must be addressed ("independent examination"). In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether the independent examination will include drawing reference from the practices adopted by the Government of the United Kingdom ("the UK") for dealing with the disturbances in 2011, and expeditiously establishing a committee to be responsible for inquiring into the causes and consequences of the social disturbances in Hong Kong, as well as identifying solutions to the social conflicts so revealed;
(2) whether it will consider allocating additional resources to the Judiciary, so that the courts may operate on a round-the-clock basis and, under the premise of conforming to procedural justice, expeditiously handle cases relating to the social disturbances; and
(3) whether it will consider, by drawing reference from the UK's Riot Compensation Act 2016, providing compensation by the Government to those individuals and organizations that have innocently suffered losses in the social disturbances?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, my reply to Dr Priscilla LEUNG's question is as follows:
(1) and (3)
The Chief Executive announced on 4 September four actions to help Hong Kong move forward. One of the actions is to invite community leaders, professionals and academics to independently LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1465 examine and review society's deep-seated problems and to advise the Government on solutions. The Government is undertaking the necessary preparatory work. However, as there have been mass-scale violent confrontations recently and the level of force used by violent protesters has noticeably escalated, the prime task of the Government now is to stop the violence. We will start work on the independent review panel on deep-seated conflicts as soon as practicable after the situation has stabilized somewhat.
The scope and methodology of the review by the independent panel will be determined by its members. It is, nonetheless, expected that the panel will make reference to the approach adopted by the United Kingdom Government in handling the riots in 2011. Through various means, including listening to the views of members of the public and making reference to the reports compiled by various institutions, experts and academics, the panel will examine the underlying causes of the social incidents in the past few months so as to stocktake and study the different deep-seated issues of society and recommend solutions.
In the meantime, the Independent Police Complaints Council ("IPCC") has established a Special Task Force and an International Expert Panel ("IEP") to conduct a study on the major public order events ("POEs") which took place in Hong Kong since 9 June and the corresponding operations of the Police, and will announce the progress of the study by phases. IPCC has stated that it would endeavour to submit the preliminary report of the study to the Chief Executive and publish the relevant details within the original time frame (i.e. early 2020). We understand that the preliminary report would cover the incidents including those in Yuen Long on 21 July, at MTR Prince Edward Station on 31 August, and at the San Uk Ling Holding Centre. In this connection, IPCC has set up multiple channels for stakeholders (including media and members of the public) to provide information. The Government will closely monitor and carefully study IPCC's reports and its recommendations in order to decide on the follow-up action.
According to IPCC, as at 7 November this year, a total of 339 "Reportable Complaints" and 694 "Notifiable Complaints" stemming from major POEs had been received. The investigation work for 1466 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
each complaint is closely monitored by IPCC and its 120 Observers. As at 4 October this year, IPCC received more than 11 800 submissions containing more than 41 400 items of information.
Currently, Hong Kong does not have any legislation which is similar to the UK's Riot Compensation Act. We have no plan to introduce similar arrangements. Nevertheless, different types of insurance products are available in the market to enable businesses to manage the risk of operation-related matters according to their needs. If businesses have bought insurance for their shops, they should be able to have protection according to the terms and conditions of their policies as well as the actual circumstances. In addition, businesses may get support from government schemes for assisting small-and-medium enterprises in various situations, such as guarantee for bank loans and funding for business developments. Separately, those individuals who are injured as a result of a crime of violence or law enforcement actions may consider if they are eligible under the Criminal and Law Enforcement Injuries Compensation Scheme to apply for compensation.
(2) As for the handling of cases by the Judiciary, the rule of law is the cornerstone of Hong Kong's prosperity and stability. To safeguard the rule of law and judicial independence, the Government has all along been according priority to allocating resources as required by the Judiciary. During the past nine financial years (i.e. from 2011-2012 to 2019-2020), the Government has fully met the Judiciary's requests for funding and post creation in the context of allocating new resources. The Government will continue to provide sufficient resources and necessary support to the Judiciary to ensure its effective operation.
The actual time required for a criminal trial to take place from the case's first appearance at the Magistrates' Courts varies from case to case. It depends mainly on the time required for both the prosecution and the defence to prepare for trial, taking into account all relevant factors such as the complexity of the case, the number of defendants involved, the number of factual or expert witnesses involved, and the time needed for processing any duty lawyer or LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1467
legal aid application. The time required is also affected by the anticipated length of the trial, the availability of counsel and the court's own availability.
In response to the upsurge in the number of court cases arising from recent social unrest, the Chief Justice has stated that the Judiciary will strive to deal with cases expeditiously and efficiently as far as practicable while at the same time ensuring that they are handled fairly and strictly in accordance with the law. In fact, in response to some recent cases where a large number of defendants were brought before the Magistrates' Courts, the courts have been exercising flexibility to continue with court hearings beyond the normal court hours until late evenings on a need basis.
The Chief Justice has also tasked the Court Leaders of various levels of courts to explore all possible means to achieve the objective of handling the cases as expeditiously as possible. As the operation of the judicial system requires the support of many other stakeholders, including the legal profession, the Department of Justice, law enforcement agencies, Correctional Services Department, Legal Aid Department and other organizations such as the Duty Lawyer Service, etc., any changes to the court and hearing arrangements may have an impact on them. The Judiciary will consult all relevant stakeholders closely in the process.
DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, the independent examination is definitely not an effective prescription to the present problems. I notice that the Government has made proactive response to my proposal of drawing reference from the approaches adopted by the United Kingdom in handling riots. In part (1) of the main reply, the Secretary says that, the authorities "will start work on the independent review panel … as soon as practicable after the situation has stabilized somewhat". In my view, the Government has failed to seize the golden opportunity to act. While the riots in the case of the United Kingdom were settled in five days, in Hong Kong, the disturbances have not yet been addressed after five months have passed. If we have to wait for the authorities to announce the relevant measures after the disturbances are settled, we cannot but consider this time frame unacceptable.
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President, even though the Riot communities and victims panel of the United Kingdom is not a statutory organization, the ruling party and the opposition have reached a consensus stating their willingness to render all-out support when the government start working. I hope the Government will make the announcement as soon as possible rather than pending the settlement of the disturbances, for if it desires to cease the problem, it should resort to any prescription available.
My question is here. If Hong Kong can make an early announcement to invite persons of credibility to sit on the panel, will the Government follow the practice of the United Kingdom at that time and undertake to offer support to the panel upon the commencement of its independent work, so that government officials will promise to render full support to the panel?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, I thank Dr LEUNG for her views and we will definitely give full consideration to her views. Yet, at the present stage, as I have pointed out in the main reply, our prime task is to stop violence and curb disorder, but it does not mean that we will slow down the work in this aspect. Members can see that preparatory work has already been commenced, but we will take forward the work after the situation stabilized―not become completely stable but slightly stabilized. We also hope to get it done quickly, as we are all anxious to have it done. In fact, we are not waiting idly but working under a three-pronged or multi-pronged approach.
First, priority is given to stopping violence and curbing disorder. This is a very practical concern. The task is of utmost importance for the public are worried about this.
Second, we have to create more channels for the expression of views, that is, to enhance communication and dialogue. In this connection, we have already taken the first step and dialogues will be conducted at different levels.
Third, we really have to start handling deep-seated problems, which includes studying the experience of the United Kingdom. Hence, we will take forward the work using this three-pronged approach, and it is just a matter of timing. During this period of time, we are not staying idle but have been doing preparatory work all along. Yet, the prime task for the time being is to handle LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1469 the prevailing situation. Members know that the violence involved in the present situation is escalating, so the pressing task is to deal with these imminent problems. I hope Members will understand the stance of the Government.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Priscilla LEUNG, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
DR PRISCILLA LEUNG (in Cantonese): In my supplementary question, I asked the Government whether the authorities would promise to render support if the panel should start working as soon as possible.
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): The Government also wishes to get things done. We set up the independent panel for we desire to find a way out. The Government will definitely render support. The Government will surely render support in terms of resources and manpower, and in all other aspects. Otherwise, the arrangement will be meaningless.
DR HELENA WONG (in Cantonese): President, I think they should stop this wordplay. What is this "independent review panel"? The public have been making the "five demands" for five months, one of which is the setting up of an independent investigation committee.
The Chief Secretary has pointed out in his main reply earlier that the authorities would let IPCC handle these cases because IPCC has already established a Special Task Force and an IEP, and that we might wish to wait for their report to be submitted next January. Yet, I would like to ask the Chief Secretary if he has noticed an open statement issued by IEP prior to their departure from Hong Kong, in which they implore the public not to hold expectations about this and state that IPCC is not conferred with the power to investigate, summon witnesses and secure evidence nor the power to secure information from the Police under the Independent Police Complaints Council Ordinance. Yet, the Chief Secretary now counts on them and implores the public to wait till January next year for their report. Have they not called on the public not to expect them to provide any information?
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In that case, why do the authorities not accept the request of the public for the setting up of an independent investigation committee immediately to investigate police brutality and the "causes and consequences of the social disturbances" as Dr Priscilla LEUNG has requested? Indeed, the authorities should act immediately. What are they waiting for? IEP has already made it clear that the result will not be available even if we wait till January. Do the authorities want the chaos in Hong Kong to continue till January, making it impossible for the public to enjoy the New Year?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I thank Dr WONG for her views and the question. First, the stance of the Government is crystal clear. We consider that IPCC must be given ample time and room to perform its work properly, as its work is very important. Regarding the remarks made by the overseas expert, that is, one of the professors, Prof Clifford STOTT, it is true that he has made such remarks and we have also noticed that; however, we also note that IPCC has issued certain statements to make clear its stance.
We all know that the work of IPCC is no easy task. Indeed, the prevailing task is complicated and difficult, as it has to conduct comprehensive examination and the workload will be very heavy. Yet, IPCC has been careful and serious in performing the task, as its objective is to identify the facts, the truth and the future direction. The report to be submitted early next year is not the final report but the report of the first stage of work. Perhaps Members have also noted that, as pointed out in my main reply, the Government has made its stance clear that it will closely monitor the results of the examination and then carefully study the recommendations before deciding the way forward. In other words, we will coordinate with each other. This is one point.
If Members have been attentive, they would have known that IPCC issued a clear statement a few days ago, showing that they were following up the issue seriously. Please allow me to quote the last sentence in IPCC's statement, "… a preliminary report with sufficient facts and preliminary conclusions, which will enable the Police Force and the HKSAR Government to take the next steps necessary to bring Hong Kong forward into an era of enduring peace and harmony under our constitutional system."
This indicates that IPCC has its objective and mission. Hence, we think it is more appropriate for us to coordinate and work together.
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MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): President, with the riots running on, members of the public feel strongly that their safety is under threat, particularly in the past few days. People going to work and students going to school feel that their safety is compromised, as someone may hurl petrol bombs indiscriminately.
President, my supplementary question is to follow up the main reply. It is pointed out that the Judiciary will continue to communicate and closely monitor the situation to facilitate the handling of all cases. Yet, regarding the setting up of special courts which operate round-the-clock, has the Government made no proactive effort to promote the setting up of 24-hour special courts to speed up the handling of these cases for the purpose of stopping violence and curbing disorder?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I thank Mr CHOW for his concern. We also share his concern about the issue. As I have pointed out in the main reply, the Chief Justice of the Court of Final Appeal has stated clearly that he has tasked the Court Leaders of various levels of courts to explore all possible means to achieve the objective of handling the cases as expeditiously as possible. In implementing new measures, the Judiciary will consult all relevant stakeholders―stakeholders from the series of organizations mentioned earlier will take part―and communication is an essential step. Nevertheless, flexibility has been applied in the handling of a number of cases. For instances, there are cases involving more than a hundred accused persons, and at magistrates' courts, certain judicial officers have worked beyond official working hours. In fact, they do not work according to scheduled working hours, as the most important point is that they will follow through the entire work flow. Hence, I have made it very clear that they will closely monitor how things develop.
Resources are by no means an issue. As I have pointed out in the main reply, in the past nine years, we did not deduct any amount from the funding requests of the Judiciary. We will render support whenever they make requests. We will definitely render support at their request, not merely for the 24-hour operation but also other arrangements regarding working hours. Hence, it is not a matter of resources. Members can be rest assured that when the Chief Justice considers the right timing has come for implementation, we will definitely render support to enable the implementation of good measures.
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MR AU NOK-HIN (in Cantonese): I would like to ask the Chief Secretary about "Five demands, not one less". The Secretary often says that the authorities have to wait till IPCC completed their work before they can set up an independent investigation committee. Yet, does he know that his inaction has so far prevented the identification of a solution to the problem and caused the problem to deteriorate? A few months later, when IPCC tells the public that it is not a problem, or when it comes up with an unexpected conclusion, and the Chief Secretary eventually decides to set up an independent investigation committee, conflicts in society will have gone out of hand. Has the Chief Secretary ever considered that continual procrastination will only serve to cause the situation to go from bad to worse?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): Regarding this opinion, we naturally have a different point of view. The stance of the Government is that IPCC is a proper channel to handle the incident, as it is, first, a statutory organization and second, an independent organization. Moreover, it is really a custom-made organization designated for monitoring the operation of the Police, checking if mistakes have been made and handling complaints against the Police, and so on. Hence, this is a proper mechanism which has been working effectively all along.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr AU Nok-hin, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR AU NOK-HIN (in Cantonese): President, the Chief Secretary should have noted that the Chairman of IPCC, Anthony Francis NEOH …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr AU, you only need to state which part of your supplementary question has not been answered.
MR AU NOK-HIN (in Cantonese): The Chief Secretary has not answered me whether the functions of IPCC are extensive enough to cover handling of social conflicts?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1473
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Chief Secretary, do you have anything to add?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, I have pointed out clearly that regarding social conflicts, we have to work on several fronts. As I said earlier, we adopted a three-pronged approach for the purpose. Handling social conflict is one of these fronts and it involves various aspects, including social justice, unequal distribution of wealth and even upward mobility in society. A series of problems are involved. Hence, this is not an isolated issue and we have to examine it in a holistic manner, bringing up problems accumulated for years in Hong Kong and handling them seriously. This is the third step. This is what we mean by the three-step approach.
MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): President, we are not talking about the work in the aftermath of disturbances. Work in the aftermath of disturbances is definitely important, but Chief Secretary, what we are facing now is how to stop violence and curb disorder. Currently, the public can only see police officers working hard and exhausting their effort to discharge their duties, but where have all the senior government officials gone? May I ask the Chief Secretary whether he will consider setting up a command centre for stopping violence and curbing disorder with a view to restoring social order as soon as possible, such that senior government officials will take the lead in promoting the participation of the Government as a whole and public participation, thereby enhancing the effectiveness of the measures to stop violence and curbing disorder?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I thank Ms LEE for her views. In fact, for the past period of time, the Police Force definitely was not fighting on its own or fighting a lone battle. The Government as a team, from accountability officials to various government departments, have been working in solidarity and cooperation with the Police Force to strive for the interest of Hong Kong and safeguard the rule of law in Hong Kong. This is very important that we are on the same side of the battlefront. Hence, Members should never query if only the Police Force is working hard. Certainly, as the law enforcement agency at the forefront, the Police must discharge their duties in this respect, but we have rendered comprehensive support in terms of policies, resources and assistance.
1474 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
A simple example is that in the aftermath of every incident, the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department and the Highways Department would immediately remove obstacles from roads and the operation of some of the traffic lights could resume operation on the next morning. This is all because we have rendered support and handled the situation immediately. Hence, the Police Force is not dealing with the situation alone. Nonetheless, Members have to understand that there will be an adaptation process in the course of cooperation. At the present stage, I can tell Members confidently that officers at all levels of the Government are of the same mind, making concerted efforts to rise to the present challenge. I also trust that Hong Kong will tide over this difficult time.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Starry LEE, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): The Chief Secretary has not answered my supplementary question. This is the personal point of view of the Chief Secretary which the public can hardly share. The public request the authorities, in particular the Secretary in his capacity as the Chief Secretary for Administration, to set up a command centre, so that the public can see that government officials are united and of one mind. Will the Chief Secretary promise to do so?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Chief Secretary, do you have anything to add?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): Regarding the internal coordination of the Government, there are some established mechanisms. All accountability officials have to meet with the Chief Executive every morning, and we have channels for handling different matters, big or small, as well as certain security policies. Also, there are established mechanisms and committees for handling certain subjects relating to social order. We are following up these issues now.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Oral questions end here.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1475
WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
Special constables, temporary police officers and members of the Essential Services Corps
7. MR JEREMY TAM (in Chinese): President, under section 40 of the Public Order Ordinance (Cap. 245), the Chief Executive ("CE") may authorize the Commissioner of Police ("CP") to appoint any person to act as a special constable; under section 24 of the Police Force Ordinance (Cap. 232), CP may employ any person to serve temporarily as a police officer; under section 18 of the Essential Services Corps (General) Regulations (Cap. 197A), CE may call out members of the Essential Services Corps ("Corps members") for active service. These three types of officers, when discharging police duties, enjoy the same powers, protection and immunities as police officers do, and must comply with all orders given by CP. It is not required under the aforesaid legislation that the relevant appointment, employment or call-out procedure must be conducted openly. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council, since 1 July 1997:
(1) whether CP has appointed or employed any person as a special constable or temporary police officer, and whether CE has called out any Corps member for active service; if so, (i) whether such persons, when or prior to being appointed, employed or called out, were members of the Mainland public security authorities, the Ministry of State Security, the People's Armed Police Force, the Chinese People's Liberation Army or other Mainland law enforcement authorities, and (ii) of the reasons for CP or CE to make such appointments, employment and call-out, and among such officers, the number of those who are still in service at present, as well as their responsibilities and duties, and the respective commencement and end dates of their tenure;
(2) whether special constables, temporary police officers and Corps members, when discharging police duties, are bound by the Police Force Ordinance and the Police General Orders; and
(3) whether CP has, through other means, appointed, employed or recruited any member of the Mainland law enforcement authorities to assist the Police in taking law enforcement actions in Hong Kong?
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SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, my consolidated reply to Mr Jeremy TAM's question is as follows:
Under section 40 of the Public Order Ordinance ("POO") (Cap. 245), the Chief Executive may by order authorize the Commissioner of Police to appoint in writing any person to act as a special constable for such period as may be specified in such order by the Chief Executive. A person appointed under POO as a special constable shall, when acting as such, have the same duties, powers, protection and immunities as are imposed or conferred by the laws of Hong Kong on a police officer.
Besides, the Commissioner of Police may employ temporary police officers under section 24 of the Police Force Ordinance (Cap. 232). A temporary police officer shall serve under the same conditions of service as an auxiliary officer of equivalent rank, and shall have and may exercise the powers and privileges of such rank and be liable to the provisions of discipline for such rank while so serving.
Under section 4 of the Essential Services Corps Ordinance (Cap. 197), the Chief Executive may raise and maintain a body of persons to be known as the Essential Services Corps to assist in the maintenance or the performance of 24 essential services as specified in that ordinance. Such services include the administration of government, the administration, management and control of prisons, the maintenance of the firefighting services, etc.
The Government of the Special Administrative Region ("SAR") did not invoke the aforesaid ordinances to appoint any special constables, employ any temporary police officers or raise any Essential Services Corps for assisting the Police in handling public order events in the past five months or so. At the same time, the SAR Government has not sought assistance from the People's Liberation Army to handle the conflicts in recent months. Neither has the Government appointed, employed, mobilized or recruited any members of the Mainland law enforcement agencies to serve as special constables, temporary police officers or members of Essential Services Corps.
Since early June this year, there have been over 700 protests, processions and public assemblies in Hong Kong, many of which evolved into violent illegal acts. In the past five months or so, violent protesters engaged in illegal blocking LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1477 of roads, paralysing the traffic, hurling petrol bombs and setting fires at various locations, throwing bricks, assaulting others with different views wantonly, deliberately assaulting police officers, storming and burning shops, MTR and Light Rail facilities and traffic lights etc., posing a serious threat to personal safety, public order and public safety. Police have the statutory duty to take actions, and will deploy manpower as necessary to maintain law and order and public peace, as well as to stop violence and curb disorder.
At present, stopping violence and curbing disorder in full force is the most important task of the SAR Government. Over the past few months, different bureaux and departments of the SAR Government have been proactively participating in and complementing the Police's work in stopping violence and curbing disorder under their respective purview.
The ongoing riots over the past few months, with their massive scale, simultaneous occurrence in various districts and grave severity of violence, make it necessary to strengthen the support for Police's frontline officers. Currently, the SAR Government is actively considering different initiatives to enhance the manpower of and support for the Police. The short-term initiatives include increasing manpower and attracting retired police officers to continue serving in the Police Force through the Post-retirement Service Contract Scheme of the civil service. Furthermore, the SAR Government is considering other possible measures to strengthen Police's manpower and strength, for example, actively considering the details of the appointment mechanism under section 40 of POO to arrange appropriate officers of other law enforcement agencies to share part of and participate in Police's work.
Parks, zoological and botanical gardens and children's playgrounds
8. MR LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG (in Chinese): President, regarding the parks, zoological and botanical gardens and children's playgrounds under the Leisure and Cultural Services Department ("LCSD"), will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of (i) the population of children aged below 12, (ii) the total number of parks as well as zoological and botanical gardens, (iii) the total area of these two types of parks/gardens, and (iv) the number of 1478 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
inclusive play equipment provided therein, in each of the years 2015, 2017 and 2019, together with a breakdown by District Council ("DC") district in the following table;
2015 2017 2019 District (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv) (i) (ii) (iii) (iv)
Total
(2) of the respective annual expenditure incurred by LCSD on designing, building and repairing play equipment for children in 2014-2015, 2016-2017 and 2018-2019 financial years, together with a breakdown by DC district; and
(3) whether LCSD has regularly reviewed the criteria for the provision of play equipment for children; if so, of the details; if not, whether it will conduct regular reviews?
SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS (in Chinese): President, my reply to the three-part question raised by Mr LEUNG Che-cheung is as follows:
(1) The number and total site area of parks and playgrounds of the Leisure and Cultural Services Department ("LCSD") (including Hong Kong Zoological and Botanical Gardens) and the number of venues provided with children's playground and inclusive play equipment in 2015, 2017 and 2019 with breakdown by District Council district are set out at Annex 1. LCSD does not maintain information on the population under 12 in each district.
(2) Children's play equipment forms part of the facilities of parks and playgrounds. LCSD does not have separate figures on the costs for the design and construction of children's play equipment. The maintenance costs of children's play equipment under LCSD (including replacement of play equipment) in 2014-2015, 2016-2017 and 2018-2019 with breakdown by District Council district are set out at Annex 2.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1479
(3) LCSD adopts a "universal play" concept in planning for play equipment with a view to providing inclusive, interesting and innovative play equipment to cater for the needs of children of different ages and abilities, as well as their parents. In designing facilities for individual venues, LCSD and the relevant works department(s) will consider topographic features, site area and circumstances and views of the District Councils concerned, etc., and review the utilization of children's play equipment in due course for improvement works.
The consultancy study on the design of children's play spaces commissioned by the Architectural Services Department was completed. The consultancy study aimed at devising new design guidelines for children's play space, thereby providing challenging and interesting facilities in future children's play space in a safe environment for public enjoyment.
The Government plans to transform more than 170 public play spaces managed by LCSD across the territory over the next five years. The primary objective of the initiative is to enhance the facilities of children's playgrounds, providing children with more innovative and interesting play spaces. In the process of transforming the facilities, besides making reference to the consultancy study findings concerned, LCSD will also encourage and promote community participation and engagement by adopting different means, such as workshops and opinion surveys to engage stakeholders, including pupils and parents of nearby schools, members of district councils and relevant organizations, etc., and invite them to offer opinions. LCSD will take note of and consolidate the opinions collected, and incorporate feasible and suitable designs and facilities into the play spaces. LCSD will also offer different degrees of challenges and fun, introduce more natural elements in order to provide more innovative, challenging and interesting play spaces.
1480 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
Annex 1
Number of Parks and Playgrounds Managed by LCSD in 2015
Number of Parks and Number of Total Site Number of Playgrounds Venues Area of Parks Venues District Council (including the Provided with and Provided with District Hong Kong Outdoor Playgrounds Inclusive Play Zoological Children's (hectares) EquipmentNote and Botanical Playground Gardens) Central and 117 56 45 26 Western Wan Chai 76 26 24 11 Southern 72 67 18 13 Eastern 111 72 37 13 Yau Tsim Mong 98 46 34 26 Kowloon City 90 74 27 25 Kwun Tong 107 82 37 34 Wong Tai Sin 52 63 15 11 Sham Shui Po 62 66 22 21 Islands 86 17 28 21 Kwai Tsing 80 62 38 27 Tsuen Wan 64 39 34 21 Tuen Mun 76 65 36 31 Yuen Long 112 56 49 41 Sha Tin 89 67 31 17 Tai Po 77 52 46 32 North 141 40 80 56 Sai Kung 55 32 29 23 Total 1 565 982 630 449
Note:
Inclusive play equipment includes transfer platforms/ramps, facilities for children using wheelchairs, play equipment providing sensory experience (e.g. senses of touch, hearing, smell) and play equipment providing physical experience (e.g. sliding, swaying, balancing).
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1481
Number of Parks and Playgrounds Managed by LCSD in 2017
Number of Parks and Number of Total Site Number of Playgrounds Venues Area of Parks Venues District Council (including the Provided with and Provided with District Hong Kong Outdoor Playgrounds Inclusive Play Zoological Children's (hectares) EquipmentNote and Botanical Playground Gardens) Central and 116 56 45 27 Western Wan Chai 87 46 25 12 Southern 70 66 20 15 Eastern 101 52 35 12 Yau Tsim Mong 97 47 31 26 Kowloon City 91 75 27 25 Kwun Tong 110 84 37 34 Wong Tai Sin 51 63 15 11 Sham Shui Po 61 66 22 21 Islands 92 17 28 21 Kwai Tsing 80 62 38 27 Tsuen Wan 65 39 36 23 Tuen Mun 77 65 36 31 Yuen Long 116 56 51 42 Sha Tin 93 68 34 19 Tai Po 82 52 50 36 North 142 39 80 56 Sai Kung 55 33 30 24 Total 1 586 986 640 462
Note:
Inclusive play equipment includes transfer platforms/ramps, facilities for children using wheelchairs, play equipment providing sensory experience (e.g. senses of touch, hearing, smell) and play equipment providing physical experience (e.g. sliding, swaying, balancing).
1482 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
Number of Parks and Playgrounds Managed by LCSD in 2019 (October)
Number of Parks and Number of Total Site Number of Playgrounds Venues Area of Parks Venues District Council (including the Provided with and Provided with District Hong Kong Outdoor Playgrounds Inclusive Play Zoological Children's (hectares) EquipmentNote and Botanical Playground Gardens) Central and 117 57 45 33 Western Wan Chai 86 46 26 17 Southern 71 66 20 15 Eastern 107 54 35 12 Yau Tsim Mong 95 47 30 27 Kowloon City 91 76 29 27 Kwun Tong 107 84 37 34 Wong Tai Sin 51 63 15 11 Sham Shui Po 61 66 23 22 Islands 93 17 28 21 Kwai Tsing 80 62 38 27 Tsuen Wan 65 41 36 23 Tuen Mun 80 66 38 34 Yuen Long 122 56 53 46 Sha Tin 94 70 33 19 Tai Po 85 52 52 37 North 143 40 80 57 Sai Kung 55 33 30 25 Total 1 603 996 648 487
Note:
Inclusive play equipment includes transfer platforms/ramps, facilities for children using wheelchairs, play equipment providing sensory experience (e.g. senses of touch, hearing, smell) and play equipment providing physical experience (e.g. sliding, swaying, balancing).
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1483
Annex 2
Actual Expenditure on Maintenance of Children's Play Equipment of LCSD (including Replacement of Play Equipment) (2014-2015, 2016-2017 and 2018-2019)
Year District 2014-2015 2016-2017Note 2018-2019 Council District Central and Western $1,001,000 $1,307,000 $977,000 Wan Chai $291,000 $1,862,000 $1,213,000 Southern $413,000 $575,000 $270,000 Eastern $1,876,000 $1,306,000 $2,862,000 Yau Tsim Mong $752,000 $2,583,000 $1,117,000 Kowloon City $547,000 $722,000 $1,134,000 Kwun Tong $863,000 $1,263,000 $1,101,000 Wong Tai Sin $765,000 $379,000 $1,054,000 Sham Shui Po $1,351,000 $889,000 $1,313,000 Islands $882,000 $803,000 $861,000 Kwai Tsing $765,000 $2,752,000 $1,026,000 Tsuen Wan $1,048,000 $1,458,000 $1,842,000 Tuen Mun $726,000 $1,591,000 $683,000 Yuen Long $2,064,000 $2,770,000 $1,524,000 Sha Tin $935,000 $2,730,000 $1,189,000 Tai Po $1,532,000 $666,000 $955,000 North $1,354,000 $2,401,000 $1,367,000 Sai Kung $676,000 $1,791,000 $1,251,000 Total Expenditure $17,841,000 $27,848,000 $21,739,000
Note:
In response to the 2016 Policy Address which announced the living of the elderly persons was to be improved, LCSD provided more fitness equipment for the elderly in various districts that year. Some children's play equipment was also modified in tandem with the installation of elderly fitness equipment. Hence, the expenditure on the maintenance and replacement of play equipment increased about 56% as compared with that of 2014-2015.
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New measures to support enterprises
9. MR JIMMY NG (in Chinese): President, in August 2018, the Government rolled out enhancement measures for the "Dedicated Fund on Branding, Upgrading and Domestic Sales" ("BUD Fund") and the "SME Export Marketing Fund" ("EMF") to help enterprises open up new markets. In August this year, the Government announced the introduction of new support measures, including the injection of funding into the two funds and, at the same time, raising the funding ceilings of such funds for individual enterprises with a view to assisting local enterprises (especially small and medium enterprises ("SMEs")) in facing up to economic adversities. Quite a number of SME proprietors have expressed concern about the success rate and the time taken for the vetting and approval of the funding applications concerned. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) regarding the ASEAN Programme and the Mainland Programme under the BUD Fund respectively, (i) of the numbers of applications received since the launch of the enhancement measures, (ii) among such applications, the respective to-date numbers of those approved, rejected, the vetting and approval of which is still in progress and withdrawn, (iii) the average time taken for the vetting and approval of each approved application, and (iv) the average amount of funds granted to each approved application;
(2) whether it will consider further extending the geographical scope for the subsidy of the Enterprise Support Programme under the BUD Fund to encompass all the countries and regions along the "Belt and Road", or even eliminating the geographical limitation; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(3) given that the Trade and Industry Department ("TID") has indicated on its website earlier on that as there has been a significant increase in the number of EMF applications received recently, the vetting and approval of some of the applications may not be able to be completed within the target time of 30 working days as set out in its performance pledge, of the number of EMF applications received by TID in each of the past three years, the average time taken for the vetting and approval of each application, and among such applications, the number of those the vetting and approval of which was completed within the target time; LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1485
(4) as some SME proprietors have anticipated that with the launch of the new support measures, the numbers of funding applications received by the two funds will increase, whether the Government will allocate additional resources to correspondingly increase the manpower for the vetting and approval of the applications, so as to avoid the time taken for vetting and approval of the applications from lengthening; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(5) as it is currently provided under the two funds that the maximum amount of grant for each item will be 50% of the total approved expenditure incurred by such item, whether the Government will raise that ceiling percentage; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and
(6) given that the Finance Committee of this Council currently has a backlog of a number of outstanding funding applications for its consideration, whether the Government will re-arrange the agendas of the meetings of the Committee so as to prioritise the funding applications relating to the new support measures for consideration, so that SMEs can benefit from these measures expeditiously?
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Chinese): President, in response to the question raised by Mr Jimmy NG, having consulted the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau, our reply is as follows:
(1) In August 2018, the Government injected $1.5 billion into the Dedicated Fund on Branding, Upgrading and Domestic Sales ("BUD Fund"), extended its geographical coverage from the Mainland to also include the Association of Southeast Asian Nations ("ASEAN") markets, and increased the cumulative funding ceiling per enterprise from $500,000 to $2,000,000 (including $1,000,000 under the ASEAN Progamme and $1,000,000 under the Mainland Programme).
Since the implementation of the enhancement measures, the number of applications received and the funding amount approved respectively increased by over 120% and 210% year on year from 1486 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
the fourth quarter of 2018 to the third quarter of 2019, a testimony to the effectiveness of the measures in supporting enterprises. Detailed figures are as below:
BUD Fund ASEAN Mainland
Programme Programme Number of applications receivedNote 525 1 278 Including― withdrawn 84 235 being processed 202 405 Number of applications approvedNote 188 559 Number of applications rejectedNote 105 280 Total funding amount of approved applications (in $ million) 113.4 323.2 Average funding amount of each approved application (in $ million) 0.603 0.578
Note:
Applications received may not be processed within the same quarter.
Since 2017, the Trade and Industry Department ("TID") has included in its Controlling Officer's Report a target on the time required for processing BUD Fund applications; and has been able to achieve the target for all BUD Fund applications since then, i.e. to complete the initial processing of applications, and where necessary, ask the applicant enterprises to provide supplementary information, within 60 working days after the application deadline of each quarter, for formal submission to the Programme Management Committee ("PMC") for vetting.
To expedite the vetting process, starting from the fourth quarter of 2018, PMC has been approving straightforward cases by circulation. To further shorten the processing time, more applications will be submitted to PMC for vetting by circulation as far as possible. We will also enhance the workflow and process applications as soon as possible instead of by batches on a quarterly basis.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1487
(2) The 2019-2020 Budget has proposed injecting another $1 billion into the BUD Fund and further extending the geographical coverage of the BUD Fund to include all economies with which Hong Kong has signed Free Trade Agreements ("FTAs"), now and in future, such that Hong Kong enterprises can take full advantage of the FTA network, including enhanced legal certainty and better market access conditions for trade in goods and services, to explore new markets and new business opportunities.
Under the proposed enhancement measures, the geographical coverage of the BUD Fund will be increased from 11 economies currently, i.e. the Mainland and ASEAN, to a total of 20 economies, including also New Zealand, the European Free Trade Association (comprising Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland), Chile, Macao, Georgia and Australia, which is a significant expansion compared with the previous coverage. The geographical coverage of the BUD Fund will also be further extended upon Hong Kong's signing of FTAs with more economies in future. We will seek funding approval from the Finance Committee of the Legislative Council with a view to implementing the enhancement measures in the first quarter of 2020.
We consider it more practical and prudent to implement the proposed measures, taking into account the implementation progress, responses of enterprises, etc., before further considering other enhancements or expanding the geographical coverage of the BUD Fund.
Enterprises that wish to explore overseas markets may also make use of the SME Export Marketing Fund ("EMF") for export promotion in other markets outside Hong Kong.
(3) In August 2018, the Government injected $1 billion into EMF and implemented enhancement measures, including doubling the cumulative funding ceiling per small and medium enterprise to $400,000 and doubling the funding ceiling per application to $100,000. Since launching the enhancement measures, the number 1488 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
of applications received under EMF has increased significantly. In view of this, TID, through an announcement on the EMF website in June 2019, notified applicant enterprises in advance that some applications may take longer to process.
From 2016 to 2018, the number of applications received under EMF was 11 387, 10 895 and 11 757 respectively. For 2019, 11 106 applications were received up to end September 2019. During that period, all applications were processed within the performance pledge of 30 working days, provided that the applicant has submitted all the required information at the time of application.
(4) To assist enterprises in embracing the challenges of the external economic environment and enhancing their resilience in the prevailing economic environment, the Government announced in August and September 2019 a series of measures to support the trade, including injecting $2 billion into the BUD Fund (comprising the above mentioned enhancement measures announced in the 2019-2020 Budget and those by the Financial Secretary in August 2019), so as to extend the geographical coverage of the BUD Fund to all economies with which Hong Kong has signed FTAs, now and in future, and increase substantially the cumulative funding ceiling per enterprise to $4 million; as well as injecting $1 billion into EMF to double the cumulative funding ceiling for each enterprise to $800,000, etc. We will seek funding approval from the Finance Committee of the Legislative Council with a view to implementing the enhancement measures in the first quarter of 2020.
We envisage that, upon implementing the above proposed enhancement measures, the number of applications received under the two funding schemes will again increase noticeably, and the workload on vetting of applications and monitoring of funded projects will also increase correspondingly. The Hong Kong Productivity Council ("HKPC") which operates the BUD Fund for the Government will increase its manpower to handle the anticipated workload upon implementing the enhancement measures. The relevant budget has been reflected in the implementation fees to be LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1489
disbursed by the Government to HKPC. TID has also been gradually redeploying its internal resources to cope with the increased workload of the two funding schemes. TID will continue to closely monitor the implementation progress of the funding schemes and seek additional manpower resources through the established mechanism when necessary.
(5) The BUD Fund and EMF currently provide funding on a matching basis. The Government will fund a maximum of 50% of the total approved expenditure of individual project and enterprises have to contribute no less than 50% of the total approved project expenditure in cash. The funding is provided on a matching basis to ensure that the funded enterprises have genuine intention and plan, and are willing to devote resources in developing brands, upgrading and restructuring operations and expanding sales markets, as well as undertaking appropriate export promotion activities. This, in turn, will ensure a prudent use of public money and avoid abuse. We consider that the current practice strikes an appropriate balance.
In order to reduce the costs of enterprises in using the BUD Fund, we have introduced an enhancement measure to fund in full the audit fee of approved projects (capped at $10,000 per audit and accounted for under the enterprises' funding ceiling). We have also further reviewed the operation of the two funding schemes and plan to provide applicants of the BUD Fund and EMF with up to 75% of the approved government funding as initial payment to alleviate the liquidity burden on enterprises at project launching.
(6) In considering the proposed agenda for the meetings of the Finance Committee, the Government will take into account various factors, including the readiness and relative priority of the proposed items, and the progress of deliberation by the Finance Committee, etc. In the 2019-2020 legislative session, the Government will continue to work closely with the Finance Committee, so that the proposed items which are beneficial to people's livelihood can be handled and approved in a timely manner.
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Impacts of demonstrations on MTR train services
10. MR CHAN HAK-KAN (in Chinese): President, since June this year, members of the public have taken to the streets for many times to stage demonstrations. Radical demonstrators wantonly vandalized MTR station facilities, resulting in temporary closure of a number of MTR stations and reduction in railway services. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it knows, since June this year,
(i) the number of MTR station facilities vandalized, as well as the repair and reprovisioning costs thus incurred by the MTR Corporation Limited ("MTRCL"),
(ii) the number of train trips cancelled and the number of passenger trips affected,
(iii) the number of reports made by MTRCL to the Police for assistance,
(iv) the number of MTRCL staff reported to have sustained injuries, and
(v) the additional manpower engaged by MTRCL, with a breakdown by job type;
(2) of the respective numbers of persons arrested, prosecuted and convicted since June this year for alleged vandalism of railway facilities; the penalties imposed on those convicted;
(3) whether it knows if MTRCL has sought compensation from the convicted persons mentioned in (2); if MTRCL has, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(4) as it has been reported that MTRCL specially arranged, during demonstrations, trains to carry demonstrators to other MTR stations for leaving, whether it knows the relevant details (including the number of trips arranged); whether MTRCL was required, in respect LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1491
of this arrangement, to seek prior consent from the relevant government departments and report to those departments afterwards; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(5) whether the number of general crimes which happened in MTR stations has shown an upward trend since June this year; if so, of the details, and whether it has assessed if the closed-circuit television systems in a number of MTR stations having been vandalized is one of the causes; and
(6) of the new measures in place to ensure the normal operation of railway services and to protect the personal safety of passengers?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, the continuous large-scale public order events taking place since this June have had an unprecedented impact on the services of the Mass Transit Railway ("MTR"). The station facilities, such as ticket machines, add-value machines, entry/exit gates, CCTV cameras, fire services installations, etc., at the MTR stations were often targeted for destruction in protests over recent months. Petrol bombs were hurled at and fires set to the stations and their entrances/exits, causing significant damage to MTR property and posing serious threat to the safety of MTR passengers, staff and other people on the scene.
My reply to the question raised by Mr CHAN Hak-kan is as follows:
(1) (i) As of 7 November, among the 93 heavy rail and 68 light rail stations, a cumulative total of 85 heavy rail and 60 light rail stations were vandalized, involving numerous facilities such as entry/exit gates (about 1 600 times), ticket machines, Octopus add-value machines/enquiry processors and Customer Service Centre facilities (961 times), Octopus fare processors on light rail platforms (952 times), CCTV cameras (about 1 100 times), escalators (77 times), lifts (about 50 times), glass panels at station entrances/exits (about 1 076 times) and roller shutters of station entrances/exits (137 times). Various vandalized station facilities are still in need of repair, and many components and parts are yet to be manufactured and shipped to Hong Kong for reinstallation and test-run. The repair and replacement fees will be assessed and confirmed in due course. 1492 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
(ii) The regular service hours for MTR railway lines and stations have been from approximately 5:00 am to approximately 1:00 am, with more than 8 000 train trips daily. In the first half of 2019, MTR provides service to an average of 5.5 million passenger journeys a day. However, from June this year onwards, the MTR Corporation Limited ("MTRCL") has adjusted its train services as necessary during public order events to strengthen the protection to the safety of passengers, staff and the railway. Such adjustments included bypassing certain stations, closing certain station entrances/exits or a whole station, suspending operation of an entire railway line when many of its stations were being attacked, or even terminating service of the whole railway network early. Due to variations in the scale of each public order event, the number of stations attacked and their distribution, areas of stations affected, the damage they sustained, the scenes of the attacks and the conditions in the vicinity, coupled with chaos caused by sudden incidents at the scenes, immediate on-the-spot response was necessary. As such, it is difficult for MTRCL to compile exact statistics on the number of train trips cancelled.
The recent continuous attacks of rioters to stations have indeed imposed grave danger to passengers, MTR staff and railway safety. MTR was also unable to provide services, making the general public unable to commute and live as usual. The patronage of August to September this year has dropped 8% compared to that of last year. Moreover, in a long weekend in early October, the situation has worsened. Damages brought by and arson act of rioters escalated which seriously harmed railway safety. At the end, MTRCL has no choice but to suspended all railway services on 4 October (Friday) evening and on the whole day of 5 October (Saturday), while the Airport Express could only resume limited service (point-to-point service between Hong Kong Station and the Airport Station) in the afternoon of 5 October. If we take the average 5.5 million passenger journeys of MTR in the first half of 2019 as the calculation basis, a large number of passenger was affected that weekend.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1493
Taking into account the actual condition of the railway system and upon conducting risk assessment, MTRCL has decided to end all train services early (except for the Airport Express) since early October so as to allow time for repair and reduce risks. Take for example the ending of all railway services at 11:30 pm daily between 4 and 8 November, the number of train trips affected every day was over 330.
(iii) From June to early November, MTRCL has made reports to the Police over 900 times regarding vandalism and arson inside MTR stations, station staff being threatened, trespassers on railway tracks, etc.
(iv) There were over 20 cases in which the MTRCL frontline staff were harassed and injured, including being pushed and shoved when handling disputes and being hit by hard objects hurled by the protesters.
(v) In respect of the MTRCL manpower, as many facilities have been repeatedly vandalized, the maintenance team of MTRCL has to carry out overnight repair work. Contractors are engaged while maintenance workers are also redeployed from other departments of MTRCL through flexible arrangement to assist in the repair work in order to expedite the progress. The frontline station staff and maintenance staff have been overstretched owing to numerous acts of vandalism and nuisance. Besides, MTRCL is highly concerned about the violent incidents and the rampant fare evasion inside MTR stations. Hence, a Special By-laws Enforcement Team is newly set up in recent months to help enforce the MTR By-Laws. The team consists of some 160 members who are MTR staff on permanent establishment from the By-laws Inspection Unit/Customer Service and Revenue Protection Unit or security personnel provided by the contractors. More professional security personnel, from initially 100 to currently around 1 000, have been arranged to provide additional support at MTR stations to ensure the safety of the passengers and the staff. In the light of recent public order events, MTRCL has strengthened its manpower inside stations and platforms to, inter alia, manage passenger flow, maintain station order and assist in station operations. 1494 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
(2) Police do not maintain a breakdown of the number of people arrested, prosecuted and convicted for damaging MTR facilities. Overall speaking, as at 31 October 2019, the Police arrested a total of 3 001 people in the public order events in relation to the amendments of the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance, among whom 510 were charged with offences such as "criminal damage" and "arson". According to the Crimes Ordinance (Cap. 200), a person guilty of destroying or damaging property and arson shall be liable on conviction to a maximum penalty of life imprisonment. Among them, from June to September 2019, 164 criminal damage cases were reported in Police's Railway District, most of which involved damaging MTR facilities, with only very few involving damaging private properties.
(3) MTRCL has made reports to the Police regarding vandalism and arson inside MTR stations, station staff being threatened, trespassers on railway tracks, etc. MTRCL reserved the rights to sue and claim compensation for any loss suffered.
(4) MTRCL has been committed to providing safe and reliable railway services for passengers. That said, in order for MTRCL to provide railway services, the railway itself should first and foremost be able to operate safely. MTRCL and relevant government departments (including the Transport and Housing Bureau, the Transport Department and the Police) have closely monitored the situation of public order events and conducted risk assessment so as to implement appropriate measures to strengthen the safety of passengers, staff and the railway.
During large-scale public order events from June to mid-August, MTRCL has, in the light of the Police's dispersal actions in the vicinity of individual stations, made corresponding train service arrangements, i.e. directing the trains with passengers to bypass the stations while at the same time dispatching empty trains directly to those stations to pick passengers up. MTRCL has all along maintained communication with relevant government departments and implement the above arrangements in order to prevent more passengers from entering into the affected stations, while at the same time assisting to disperse passengers who got stuck at those stations. MTRCL has not kept record of the corresponding special train service arrangements. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1495
Since July, damages and disturbance occurred in railway area and violent incidents later on further escalated. When violent situations occur in stations, the safety of passenger was endangered. The best solution to ensure safety is to avoid passengers appear or stay in the affected stations. Thus, MTRCL must, when necessary, adjust its service within a short time (or even without prior notice), including bypassing certain stations, closing certain station entrances/exits or the whole station, suspending operation of an entire railway line when many of its stations were being attacked, or even terminating service of the whole railway network early.
MTRCL will continue to make the best endeavour to provide services to the public under safe condition and as far as practicable. Government departments and MTRCL will, in the interest of safety, continue to assess the risk of upcoming public order events, so as to adopt suitable operational arrangement for the public.
(5) From June to September 2019, 536 crimes were reported in Police's Railway District, among which 164 were criminal damage cases (most of which involved damaging MTR facilities, with only very few involving damaging private properties). This represents a significant increase of 72% (318% for criminal damage cases) over the 311 cases reported during the same period in 2018 (among which five were criminal damage cases).
In the unlawful assemblies over the past few months, many of the violent protesters who engaged in violent acts used facial covering to hide their identities and extensively damaged the closed circuit television systems in public areas (including the closed circuit television equipment in most MTR stations), which hindered the Police's enforcement actions and made it more difficult for evidence gathering, such that they might evade liability.
Masked violent protesters' repeated acts in vandalizing MTR facilities wantonly pose serious threat to the safety of MTR passengers and their staff, as well as the railway operation. Such acts also seriously affect the commuting by members of the public. The Government has repeatedly stressed that regardless of their demands, protesters should not resort to violence and illegal acts. Beautifying violence or illegal acts would only give rise to more violence, and ultimately it would be the whole society and the 1496 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
general public being suffered. The Government will not tolerate any illegal or violent acts, or acts that prejudice public safety or public order, and will take stringent follow-up actions.
(6) MTRCL will keep in view the latest situation, and enhance security measures at stations to ensure the safety of passengers, MTR staff and the railway, taking into account the risk assessment results, practical needs and the actual conditions of station entrances/exits. In addition to engaging additional station security staff and related manpower as mentioned in the above reply to part (1) of the question, MTRCL has also stepped up station security by installing and strengthening roller shutters, protecting glass panels and other facilities at entrances/exits of different stations. MTRCL is also reviewing long-term measures of station security. Moreover, MTRCL will continue to, having regard to the actual circumstances, maintain close liaison with bailiffs and the Police in taking appropriate action according to the Interim Injunction Order granted by the Court (which prohibits a person from unlawfully, intentionally and wilfully obstructing or interfering with the proper use of the stations and trains of the railway network, as well as the West Kowloon Station of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link, and prohibits a person from damaging any property or train, using any threatening language or behaving in a riotous or disorderly manner at any MTR station, and obstructing or interfering with any staff of MTRCL under the circumstances specified in the Order).
As regards to the enforcement work in railway areas, the Police have set up the Railway District to maintain railway network's safety and order. The Police will, having regard to the operational needs, continue to deploy suitable manpower to take all practical and legitimate measures to prevent and detect crimes and to maintain public safety and public order.
Reduction of waste plastics
11. MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Chinese): President, the Environmental Protection Department ("EPD") has indicated that as the disposal of plastic bags rose again in two consecutive years in 2016 and 2017, it will review the effectiveness (including the charge amount and exemption issues) of the existing LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1497
Plastic Shopping Bag Charging Scheme ("Charging Scheme"). On the other hand, currently there is no legislation regulating the use of disposable plastic products (including packaging materials, tableware and containers). In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the respective quantities of waste plastics (i) disposed of at landfills and (ii) recovered, in each month between January last year and October this year, with a tabulated breakdown by type (including plastic bags, disposable tableware and packaging materials);
(2) of the progress of EPD's review of the Charging Scheme; whether the Government will consider taking measures which are more aggressive (e.g. a total ban on the use of plastic bags); if so, of the details and timetable; if not, the justifications for that;
(3) as some green groups have pointed out that since the problem of abusive use of packaging materials is serious, and it is difficult to recover and reuse such materials, packaging materials inflict more harm on the environment than plastic bags do, whether the Government has formulated measures to reduce the use of plastic packaging materials; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(4) whether it will consider including disposable plastic products in a producer responsibility scheme to require various parties such as manufacturers, sellers and consumers to share the cost of handling related waste, with a view to achieving reduction of waste plastics at source; if so, of the details; if not, the justifications for that; and
(5) as it is learnt that quite a number of countries have implemented or will implement a timetable for a gradual ban on the use of plastic products which are disposable or difficult to recover, whether the Government will draw up a timetable on reduction of waste plastics; if so, of the details; if not, the justifications for that?
SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Chinese): President, environmental pollution by plastic products, in particular, marine pollution, has become a topic of concern in recent years. To alleviate its impact on ecology and environment, the Government will continue to adopt a multi-pronged approach by taking forward initiatives on various fronts, e.g. introducing 1498 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 legislation and policies, strengthening education on and support to community, etc., in order to promote a "plastic-free" culture, minimize the use of one-off disposable plastics and create a circular economy for plastic materials. To this end, concerted effort by the Government, various trades and the general public is required to achieve a more satisfactory outcome in tackling the challenges posed by waste plastics.
My reply to Mr Kenneth LEUNG's question is as follows:
(1) The Environmental Protection Department ("EPD") compiles statistics on waste plastics disposed of at landfills based on findings of an annual survey. Due to limitation in data collection, we are unable to provide the disposal figures on a monthly basis and can only provide the average monthly figures. In 2017, the average monthly quantities of waste plastics disposed of were as follows:
Plastics Average monthly disposal quantity (tonnes) Plastic bags 24 120 Plastic tableware 5 040 Polyfoam―tableware 1 180 Polyfoam―others 1 350 Non-polyethylene 2 190 terephthalate ("PET") plastic bottles PET plastic bottles 4 150 Others(1) 26 560 Total 64 590
Note:
(1) Other waste plastics include packaging materials, toys, off-cuts, scrap, etc.
As for the quantities of waste plastics recovered, we maintain breakdown on plastic recyclables recovered for either local recycling or export, but not by their original uses, and are thus unable to provide the corresponding breakdown. In 2017, the average monthly quantity of waste plastics recovered was 9 640 tonnes.
Compilation of the statistics for 2018 is underway and the statistics are expected to be published by the end of this year.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1499
(2) to (5)
We are studying and formulating various initiatives to tackle the issue of waste plastics, but given the many variables in play, we are currently unable to formulate a specific target for gradually reducing the quantity of waste plastics disposed of at landfills and the timetable for implementing the target. We would proactively take forward the works below:
(i) Under the Plastic Shopping Bag ("PSB") Charging Scheme, the current minimum charge of 50 cents has remained unchanged for over 10 years. There are views on whether the charge should be adjusted. There are also views that the current exemption over PSB used for food hygiene purposes, especially the use of PSB to carry frozen or chilled foodstuff, may need to be tightened to further encourage reducing the use of PSB. We are reviewing the operation and effectiveness of the charging scheme along these directions so as to consider the room for further improvement. We plan to consult the public in 2020 on the outcome of the review in order to map out the way forward.
(ii) Packaging reduction is a global trend. This subject has always been a concern to members of the public and green groups in Hong Kong. The Government plans to collaborate with the retail trade to explore and implement practical measures on promoting and encouraging the reduction of plastic packaging materials. We are now actively engaging the sector for commencing the work concerned.
(iii) The Government has indicated earlier to press ahead with the introduction of a producer responsibility scheme on plastic beverage containers first. We will consider, similar to the arrangement in other jurisdictions, providing an economic incentive to encourage the public to return used plastic beverage containers for recycling. The application of Reverse Vending Machines will also be explored to enhance recovery efficiency of used plastic beverage containers. 1500 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
Having regard to the consultant's proposal and stakeholders' views, we will map out the way forward for public consultation.
(iv) With reference to the research and development in other countries or places on the control of disposable plastic items, we are commencing a study on controlling or banning disposable plastic tableware to explore, inter alia, the necessity and feasibility of such control or ban, and the scope, regulatory mechanism and applicable substitutes concerned should such control or ban is deemed necessary and feasible. The study is scheduled for completion in late 2020.
(v) Starting from January 2019, the Government has taken the initiative in banning plastic straws and polyfoam food containers in canteens mainly serving government staff. Besides, when inviting tenders for new or renewing existing contracts, the Government will stipulate the requirement for restaurant operators in suitable government venues to avoid using disposable plastic tableware wherever practicable.
(vi) We also collaborate with the catering sector to promote and encourage reducing the use of disposable plastic tableware. Our efforts include formulating guidelines for the catering sector, co-organizing the "Plastic-Free Takeaway, Use Reusable Tableware" campaign with the trade, encouraging customers to bring their own tableware, etc. The two phases of the campaign have saved a total of about 2.4 million sets of disposable tableware.
(vii) Green awareness has to be fostered from childhood. In this connection, we will step up our efforts in nurturing a "plastic-free" culture in schools. EPD will work with the Education Bureau to launch a "Plastic-free" School Lunch Pilot Scheme, encouraging primary and secondary schools to use reusable lunch boxes in serving school lunch for their students, and cultivating students' green habit of bringing along their own reusable cutlery. We will also provide fridges, rice steamers, dish washers and sterilizers to schools LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1501
in need, so as to encourage students to bring their own tableware. To inculcate the green habit of "bringing your own bottle" in the youth from their childhood, we will also invite about 80 primary and secondary schools to join a two-year pilot programme, under which smart water dispensers with their exteriors designed by these schools' students will be installed at the schools, and the schools are supported to carry out relevant education and experiential activities.
(viii) To enhance the recovery rate of waste plastics, the Government is preparing to provide free collection services for all sorts of waste plastics from non-commercial and non-industrial sources. The waste plastics so collected will be further treated and processed to become recycled raw materials or recycled products. A two-year Pilot Scheme on Collection and Recycling Services of Waste Plastics will be gradually rolled out in the Eastern District, Sha Tin and Kwun Tong by end of this year to the first half of 2020. Drawing from the practical experience gained under the Pilot Scheme, we will then gradually extend the services to cover the whole territory.
Demand of and supply for doctors
12. MS ELIZABETH QUAT (in Chinese): President, non-locally trained medical practitioners are required to pass the Licensing Examination administered by the Medical Council of Hong Kong ("MCHK") and to complete a period of internship at the Hospital Authority ("HA") before they may be registered as medical practitioners. In addition, non-locally trained medical practitioners, if employed by designated institutions such as HA for the purposes of teaching, conducting research or performing clinical work, may apply to MCHK for limited registration. Regarding the demand and supply situation of medical practitioners, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it knows, in each of the past four financial years and the current financial year (up to September), (i) the shortfall of medical practitioners in HA, (ii) the number of vacancies of medical 1502 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
practitioners in HA, as well as (iii) the number of medical practitioners with limited registration to be recruited as planned by HA in that year and (iv) the number of such medical practitioners actually employed;
(2) whether it will request HA to formulate performance pledges in respect of the waiting times for (i) specialist outpatient and (ii) Accident and Emergency ("A&E") services; if so, of the additional expenditure to be incurred and the number of additional medical practitioners to be employed; if not, the reasons for that;
(3) whether it knows if HA has set targets on the numbers of medical practitioners with limited registration to be employed for the various specialties; if HA has, of the numbers; if not, whether HA will set such targets;
(4) whether it knows if HA has employed medical practitioners with limited registration for taking up Consultant posts; if HA has, of the numbers in each of the past four financial years and the current financial year (up to September); if not, the reasons for that;
(5) whether it knows the shortfall of medical practitioners in the various specialties in HA in each of the past four financial years and the current financial year (up to September) (with a tabulated breakdown by Head Office and the various hospital clusters in Table 1); if such figures are not available, of the reasons for that, and whether HA will compile such statistics;
Table 1 Head Office/ 2015- 2016- 2017- 2018- 2019- Specialty Cluster 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Head Office (Not applicable) A&E Anaesthesia (Name of Family Medicine hospital Intensive Care cluster) Unit Medicine Neurosurgery LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1503
Head Office/ 2015- 2016- 2017- 2018- 2019- Specialty Cluster 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Obstetrics & Gynaecology Ophthalmology Orthopaedics & Traumatology Paediatrics Pathology Psychiatry Radiology Surgery Others Sub-total … Total
(6) whether it knows, in each of the past four financial years and the current financial year (up to September), among the medical practitioners with limited registration employed by HA, (i) the respective numbers of those sitting and passing the Licensing Examination as well as the passing rate, and (ii) the number of those turning to private practice after having been registered as medical practitioners, and the practice details of these persons; if such figures are not available, whether HA will compile such statistics;
(7) whether it will look into the practice situation of non-locally trained medical practitioners who have been registered as medical practitioners (including the number of those who switch to work in private healthcare institutions); if not, of the reasons for that;
(8) whether it knows the numbers of Hong Kong permanent residents who were (i) medical students studying and (ii) medical practitioners practising in places outside Hong Kong, in each of the past four financial years and the current financial year (up to September) (with a tabulated breakdown in Table 2); if such figures are not available, whether it will compile such statistics; and
1504 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
Table 2 2015- 2016- 2017- 2018- 2019- Country/Place 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 (i) (ii) (i) (ii) (i) (ii) (i) (ii) (i) (ii) The United Kingdom Australia/New Zealand The United States Canada Mainland Others
(9) of the measures in place to encourage the persons mentioned in (8) to return to and practise in Hong Kong, and to work in public healthcare institutions?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, my reply to the question raised by Ms Elizabeth QUAT is as follows:
(1) The cumulative shortfall of doctors, the attrition figure and attrition rate of full-time doctors in the Hospital Authority ("HA") in each of the past four years are as follows:
Attrition figure of Cumulative shortfall Year full-time doctors of the HA doctors (Attrition rate) 2015-2016 300 240 (4.4%) 2016-2017 300 286 (5.1%) 2017-2018 300 336 (5.8%) 2018-2019 260 374 (6.4%)
Note:
Figures for 2019-2020 are not yet available.
From 2011-2012 to 1 November 2019, the Medical Council of Hong Kong ("MCHK") approved 54 limited registration applications for non-locally trained doctors to practise in HA. Currently, 20 non-locally trained doctors are serving in such specialties with LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1505
manpower shortage as anaesthesia, accident and emergency ("A&E"), cardiothoracic surgery, family medicine, medicine, neurosurgery, paediatrics, radiology and surgery. Four more non-locally trained doctors will assume office between the fourth quarter of this year and the first quarter of next year.
The table below sets out the number of non-locally trained doctors employed by HA under limited registration in each of the past four years and in 2019 (as at 1 November 2019):
2019 2015 2016 2017 2018 (As at 1 November 2019) 10 12 12 10 20
Note:
Except for 2019, the figure was the number of non-locally trained doctors employed by HA as at 31 December of that year under limited registration to relieve manpower shortage.
(2) Waiting time at specialist outpatient clinics ("SOPCs")
HA implements a triage system for new referrals from SOPCs to ensure that patients with urgent conditions requiring early intervention are treated with priority. Under the system, new referrals are usually screened, first by a nurse then by a specialist doctor of the relevant specialty, for classification into priority 1 (urgent), priority 2 (semi-urgent) and routine (stable) categories. HA's targets are to maintain the median waiting time of no more than two weeks and eight weeks for priority 1 and 2 cases respectively. Both targets have been met so far.
For routine (stable) cases, since they do not fall under the urgent or semi-urgent categories, HA will arrange appointments for the patients in accordance with the established procedures. Specialist doctors will review the classification of such cases during the process. A mechanism is also in place to advance the appointment should there be changes in the patient's conditions after the appointment is made.
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HA has implemented a series of measures to alleviate the waiting time in SOPCs. These measures include implementing a triage and prioritization system; enhancing primary care services; promoting public-private partnership; enhancing manpower; implementing various annual plan programmes to manage SOPC waiting time; enhancing the transparency of SOPC waiting time and facilitating patients to make informed decisions on cross-cluster treatment; and optimizing the appointment scheduling practices of SOPCs. In addition, HA has launched a mobile application since March 2016 to facilitate new case bookings for major specialties.
Waiting time at accident and emergency departments ("A&ED")
To ensure that patients in need of urgent care can receive timely treatment at A&ED, HA adopts a triage system which classifies patients into five categories according to their clinical conditions, namely critical, emergency, urgent, semi-urgent and non-urgent. HA has set service targets to provide treatment for patients in need of urgent medical attention within a reasonable time as far as possible.
HA has introduced an array of measures to alleviate the pressure on A&E services through increasing manpower and providing the public with relevant information on medical services. The A&E Support Session Programme, for example, offers a special honorarium for recruiting additional health care staff to handle semi-urgent and non-urgent cases, so that A&ED staff can focus on handling critical, emergency and urgent cases. The Locum Recruitment Website, which was launched in November 2018, also facilitates the recruitment of additional part-time health care staff in a more flexible and efficient way.
Besides, HA's web page and mobile application HA Touch provide information such as the waiting time in A&EDs of public hospitals, web links to private health care services and private doctor directories for public reference.
(3) HA will continue to recruit non-locally trained doctors through limited registration. Upon the enactment of the Medical Registration (Amendment) Ordinance 2017, the validity period and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1507
renewal period of limited registration have been extended from not exceeding one year to not exceeding three years. With this extension and the other improvement measures, the number of non-locally trained doctors recruited under the limited registration scheme is expected to increase.
Since April this year, HA has expanded the scope of the limited registration scheme to all specialties at the rank of Resident, and recruited non-locally trained specialists at the rank of Associate Consultant in eight specialties (namely anaesthesia, anatomical pathology, cardiothoracic surgery, otorhinolaryngology, obstetrics and gynaecology, ophthalmology, radiology and nuclear medicine) where wastage is more serious. All posts held by non-locally trained doctors employed under the limited registration scheme are supernumerary posts created with additional government resources.
(4) From 2011-2012 to 1 November 2019, HA did not recruit limited registration doctors at the rank of Consultant. To encourage and attract more eligible non-locally trained doctors to serve in public hospitals in Hong Kong through limited registration, thereby relieving the manpower shortage, HA, at its Administrative and Operation Meeting held in April this year, approved the implementation of a career advancement mechanism for non-locally trained doctors. Non-locally trained doctors at the rank of Resident with five or more years of clinical experience in public hospitals after obtaining specialist qualification will have the chance to be promoted to the rank of Associate Consultant. As the promotion posts are created with additional resources, the promotion prospects and training opportunities of locally-trained doctors will not be affected.
(5) HA deploys manpower flexibly across specialties, hospitals or hospital clusters, having regard to the service demands as well as the manpower situation and operational needs of various departments. Figures on the shortfall of doctors by specialty and by hospital cluster are therefore unavailable.
Attrition figures of HA's full-time doctors by hospital cluster and by specialty in the past four years are at Annex.
1508 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
(6) From 2011-2012 to 1 November 2019, MCHK approved 54 limited registration applications for non-locally trained doctors to practise in HA. Seven of them were granted full registration after passing the Licensing Examination. Of those seven, six chose to stay in public hospitals and one turned to private practice.
(7) On average, about 80% of doctors who were granted full registration after passing the Licensing Examination and completing the internship assessment joined HA in each of the past five years.
(8) and (9)
The Government does not have readily available statistics on the number of Hong Kong permanent residents who are studying or practising medicine in places outside Hong Kong for each year.
The Government has all along adopted a multi-pronged approach in addressing the serious shortfall of doctors in the public health care system. Over the past few years, MCHK has introduced various enhanced and new initiatives to help qualified non-locally trained doctors obtain full registration in Hong Kong. Some of the measures are as follows:
(i) The frequency of the Licensing Examination has been increased from once to twice a year starting from 2014;
(ii) since 2015, MCHK has refined exemption requirements for the Licensing Examination. For Part III of the Licensing Examination, i.e. Clinical Examination, the minimum requirement of post-registration experience in relevant discipline(s) of an applicant applying exemption has been reduced from 10 years to 6 years; and
(iii) MCHK has shortened the period of assessment for non-locally trained specialist doctors who have passed the Licensing Examination from six months to two days starting from August 2019. We expect that more qualified doctors will thus be attracted to practise in Hong Kong.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1509
Besides, the Medical Registration Ordinance was amended in April 2018 so that doctors admitted under limited registration might practise or have their registration renewed for a period not exceeding three years. The Food and Health Bureau, the Department of Health and HA will continue to work closely, in collaboration with overseas Economic and Trade Offices, to promote the new facilitation measure and encourage non-locally trained doctors to practise in Hong Kong. The Chief Secretary for Administration and the Secretary for Food and Health visited the United Kingdom last year respectively. The Secretary for Food and Health has also led a delegation to Australia in mid-September this year for this purpose.
To provide more incentive for non-locally trained doctors to serve in the public health care system in Hong Kong, the Government is exploring more effective ways to provide specialist training for non-locally trained doctors without compromising specialist training opportunities for locally trained doctors. Colleges under The Hong Kong Academy of Medicine and HA are studying the implementation details with a view to attracting more non-locally trained doctors to practise in Hong Kong.
Annex
Attrition figures of HA's full-time doctors by hospital cluster and by specialty in the past four years are set out in the following table:
Cluster Major Specialty 2015-2016 2016-2017 2017-2018 2019-2019 HKEC Accident & Emergency 1 4 2 3 Anaesthesia 1 2 2 6 Family Medicine 2 4 2 3 Intensive Care Unit 0 0 0 0 Medicine 2 8 10 6 Neurosurgery 1 1 0 0 Obstetrics & 2 4 1 2 Gynaecology Ophthalmology 1 1 1 3 1510 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
Cluster Major Specialty 2015-2016 2016-2017 2017-2018 2019-2019 Orthopaedics & 5 1 1 1 Traumatology Paediatrics 1 0 3 1 Pathology 0 3 2 0 Psychiatry 0 5 2 2 Radiology 3 1 2 2 Surgery 1 5 2 4 Others 2 2 2 3 Total 22 41 32 36 HKWC Accident & Emergency 4 0 1 2 Anaesthesia 5 4 9 7 Cardio-thoracic Surgery 0 0 0 1 Family Medicine 2 1 4 5 Intensive Care Unit 2 0 1 2 Medicine 9 8 5 3 Neurosurgery 1 0 0 0 Obstetrics & 1 1 2 1 Gynaecology Ophthalmology 1 0 1 2 Orthopaedics & 2 2 1 3 Traumatology Paediatrics 3 4 3 4 Pathology 0 2 1 2 Psychiatry 3 3 3 0 Radiology 4 3 5 3 Surgery 4 4 7 5 Others 3 1 2 7 Total 44 33 45 47 KCC* Accident & Emergency 2 2 1 4 Anaesthesia 1 3 2 5 Cardio-thoracic Surgery 1 0 0 3 Family Medicine 1 3 8 7 Intensive Care Unit 1 0 1 0 Medicine 1 4 11 14 Neurosurgery 1 0 0 3 Obstetrics & 6 0 6 5 Gynaecology LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1511
Cluster Major Specialty 2015-2016 2016-2017 2017-2018 2019-2019 Ophthalmology 2 3 4 1 Orthopaedics & 2 3 3 2 Traumatology Paediatrics 2 0 3 5 Pathology 3 2 2 1 Psychiatry 1 3 5 1 Radiology 0 2 7 9 Surgery 0 3 5 4 Others 2 2 0 5 Total 26 30 58 69 KEC Accident & Emergency 4 5 6 7 Anaesthesia 4 3 6 4 Family Medicine 3 5 3 4 Intensive Care Unit 0 0 0 0 Medicine 6 8 8 6 Obstetrics & 2 1 1 1 Gynaecology Ophthalmology 0 2 2 2 Orthopaedics & 1 4 4 5 Traumatology Paediatrics 1 1 1 4 Pathology 3 5 3 3 Psychiatry 1 2 4 5 Radiology 2 0 5 1 Surgery 2 2 3 8 Others 1 1 0 3 Total 30 39 46 53 KWC* Accident & Emergency 3 7 8 6 Anaesthesia 4 2 6 5 Family Medicine 7 10 7 11 Intensive Care Unit 1 1 1 1 Medicine 17 14 8 7 Neurosurgery 0 0 1 2 Obstetrics & 3 2 3 3 Gynaecology Ophthalmology 2 2 5 1 Orthopaedics & 4 5 1 4 Traumatology 1512 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
Cluster Major Specialty 2015-2016 2016-2017 2017-2018 2019-2019 Paediatrics 3 3 1 1 Pathology 4 2 3 0 Psychiatry 1 5 4 1 Radiology 7 7 5 3 Surgery 4 6 4 5 Others 3 4 2 1 Total 63 70 59 51 NTEC Accident & Emergency 0 2 3 2 Anaesthesia 1 4 3 7 Cardio-thoracic Surgery 1 0 0 0 Family Medicine 2 6 7 3 Intensive Care Unit 2 1 2 1 Medicine 5 10 13 11 Neurosurgery 0 0 0 1 Obstetrics & 1 1 1 3 Gynaecology Ophthalmology 1 1 3 3 Orthopaedics & 1 3 5 11 Traumatology Paediatrics 1 5 4 4 Pathology 1 2 1 0 Psychiatry 0 1 5 5 Radiology 1 1 1 3 Surgery 2 5 3 11 Others 1 3 2 5 Total 20 45 53 70 NTWC Accident & Emergency 3 1 2 1 Anaesthesia 1 0 1 2 Cardio-thoracic Surgery 0 0 0 0 Family Medicine 6 2 8 5 Intensive Care Unit 1 0 0 0 Medicine 2 5 9 7 Neurosurgery 0 0 0 2 Obstetrics & 3 0 5 2 Gynaecology Ophthalmology 0 2 1 2 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1513
Cluster Major Specialty 2015-2016 2016-2017 2017-2018 2019-2019 Orthopaedics & 0 1 4 9 Traumatology Paediatrics 2 7 0 2 Pathology 0 2 1 0 Psychiatry 7 3 2 4 Radiology 4 1 4 3 Surgery 5 0 3 5 Others 1 3 3 4 Total 35 27 43 48
Notes:
(1) Attrition (Wastage) includes all types of cessation of service from HA for permanent and contract staff on headcount basis.
(2) Since April 2013, attrition (wastage) for the HA full-time and part-time workforce has been separately monitored and presented, i.e. Full-time Attrition (Wastage) Rate and Part-time Attrition (Wastage) Rate respectively.
(3) Rolling Attrition (Wastage) Rate = (Total number of staff left HA in the past 12 months/Average strength in the past 12 months) x 100%
(4) Doctors exclude Interns and Dental Officers.
(5) Figures for 2019-2020 are not yet available.
* Kwong Wah Hospital, Our Lady of Maryknoll Hospital and Tung Wah Group of Hospitals Wong Tai Sin Hospital, together with the service units in the concerned communities, were re-delineated from the KWC to KCC with effect from 1 December 2016. Reports on services/manpower statistics and financial information are continued to be based on the previous clustering arrangement (i.e. concerned service units under KWC) for the entire 2016-2017 financial year (i.e. up to 31 March 2017), while reporting based on the new clustering arrangement starts from 1 April 2017. All statistics and financial information for KCC and KWC before and on/after 1 April 2017 are therefore not directly comparable.
Abbreviations
HKEC―Hong Kong East Cluster HKWC―Hong Kong West Cluster KCC―Kowloon Central Cluster KEC―Kowloon East Cluster KWC―Kowloon West Cluster NTEC―New Territories East Cluster NTWC―New Territories West Cluster
1514 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
Liberal Studies subject under the senior secondary education
13. MR CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN (in Chinese): President, in September this year, the Education Bureau ("EDB") introduced professional consultancy services under which publishers may voluntarily submit their textbooks for the Liberal Studies ("LS") subject under the senior secondary education to EDB for a professional team to offer professional advice and recommendations on the contents of the textbooks in the light of the curriculum objectives and goals of the subject. EDB will upload onto the EDB webpage a list of LS textbooks which have undergone the professional consultancy procedure and completed the follow-up actions on the recommendations received. On the other hand, it has been reported that some LS teachers have earlier been alleged to have distinct political stances, have made hostile remarks against the Police on the Internet, and have compiled for their schools LS teaching materials ("self-compiled teaching materials") and examination questions with obviously biased views. Regarding the LS subject under the senior secondary education, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the names, number and proportion of the publishers which have so far indicated that they will use the professional consultancy services, and how such proportion compares with that anticipated by EDB;
(2) of the following details of the professional consultancy services: (i) whether publishers are required to submit the full contents of their textbooks (if not, which parts or chapters are required to be submitted), (ii) the background of the members of the professional team, and (iii) the bases on which the team offers advice or recommendations to publishers;
(3) in relation to the LS textbooks which have not undergone the professional consultation procedure or have not been amended in the light of the advice or recommendations offered by the professional team, whether there will be other impacts on such textbooks, apart from their exclusion from the list of LS textbooks on the EDB webpage;
(4) whether publishers are required to pay for the professional consultancy services; if so, of the amount of money involved, and whether EDB has assessed the impact of such an expense on textbook prices; LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1515
(5) whether EDB will require or encourage schools to adopt only those textbooks which have undergone the professional consultation procedure as the main LS teaching materials;
(6) whether EDB has plans to change the nature of the professional consultancy services from voluntary to mandatory;
(7) given that nowadays quite a number of schools use self-compiled teaching materials for the LS subject, how EDB ensures that such self-compiled teaching materials meet the criteria of objectiveness, fairness and impartiality; whether EDB has considered extending the professional consultancy services to self-compiled teaching materials;
(8) whether EDB will study establishing channels for teachers, parents or students to make enquiries or complaints as to whether the contents of their schools' self-compiled LS teaching materials are biased or untrue;
(9) as it has been reported that EDB has earlier appointed all the 11 Curriculum Development Officers of the Liberal Studies Section under the Curriculum Development Institute as inspectors and authorized them to visit schools for the purpose of inspecting LS teaching, of the details of such inspections; how EDB will follow up the situation where the inspectors have found that there is room for improvement or improvement must be made in LS teaching of a certain school; and
(10) whether EDB has formulated measures to ensure that LS teachers are of good characters and uphold professionalism and impartiality in teaching?
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Chinese): President, the Liberal Studies ("LS") subject under the senior secondary curriculum aims at helping students enhance their awareness of personal, social, national and global developments as well as scientific and technological advancement; broaden their knowledge base; connect knowledge acquired from different subjects; and consider issues from multiple perspectives. It also seeks to develop students' positive values and attitudes towards life so that they can become informed and responsible citizens. Teachers should teach the subject in accordance with the curriculum aims and 1516 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 objectives in a serious and professional manner. A wide range of learning and teaching resources, including those developed by the Education Bureau, should be adopted flexibly. In view of the above features of LS, and the evolving nature of most contemporary issues involved in the curriculum, there is no mechanism for submitting the LS "textbooks" for review at the moment. Nor is there any Recommended Textbook List for this subject. However, books published in the form of "textbooks" are made available for sale in the market, and adopted by quite a number of schools.
In view of the social incidents in recent months, some members of the community, alleging some teaching materials used in lessons as containing biased views, are concerned that such materials may cause negative impacts on students. They are particularly concerned that classroom teaching and the learning materials for senior secondary LS which are not objective and impartial will mislead students who are mentally immature. The Education Bureau fully understands such public concerns and, to safeguard the well-being of students, has introduced a special measure to provide a free professional consultancy service to publishers with the aim of reviewing the quality of published senior secondary LS "textbooks" to achieve the curriculum aims and objectives.
Our reply to the questions raised by Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwan is as follows:
(1) to (6)
The special measure of providing a one-off professional consultancy service to publishers in ensuring the quality of the published senior secondary LS "textbook" is a consensus reached after discussion between the Education Bureau and the Hong Kong Association of Professional Education Publishing Limited. It is generally supported by publishers. The publishers participate in the service on a voluntary basis and are not required to pay any fees to the Education Bureau. They shall undertake to duly follow our professional advice and make amendments to enhance the quality of their LS "textbooks" as early as possible. As at mid-October 2019, seven major publishers of the LS "textbooks" participating in the consultancy service have submitted a total of 10 sets of all the latest versions of the LS "textbooks" (including the English versions) to the Education Bureau. According to our understanding, the senior secondary LS "textbooks" commonly used in schools are published by these seven publishers. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1517
A professional team, comprising subject inspectors, university academics and education professionals, has been set up to provide feedback and advice professionally in accordance with the curriculum aims and objectives of LS. The team will provide feedback and advice without any political considerations. The Education Bureau will scrutinize the "textbooks" in phases and the publishers are expected to complete the refinements of their "textbooks" by the end of this school year. Where necessary, the Education Bureau will exchange professional views with the publishers to further enhance the quality of LS "textbooks".
We have uploaded the list of voluntary publisher participants onto our web page
The Education Bureau will continue to develop learning and teaching resources for the senior secondary LS, such as the Liberal Studies Curriculum Resources Booklet Series covering all the modules of the curriculum, and developing the LS Web-based Resource Platform
assurance measures for the subject, including the feasibility of extending the existing textbook review mechanism to cover the LS "textbooks".
(7), (8) and (10)
On school-based resource materials as well as learning and teaching, the school management has the responsibility for ensuring that school-based materials of various subjects, including LS, are in line with the respective curriculum aims and objectives. Also, they should remind teachers to adopt suitable learning and teaching strategies, guide students in an objective, rational and impartial manner, respect different views and refrain from promoting their political views.
The Education Bureau attaches great importance to teachers' professional conduct. Teachers should adopt a neutral stance and analyse issues using diversified resources from multiple perspectives. Teachers should guide students to express their views in a peaceful and rational manner. Teachers serve as students' role models through teaching by words and examples. Their words and actions must be in compliance with the professional conduct and meet the standard as expected by the public. If any complaints relating to suspected professional misconduct are received, the Education Bureau will investigate each case, monitor the conduct of teachers in accordance with the Education Ordinance, and follow up on all suspected cases seriously. For serious cases, the registration of the teacher concerned may be cancelled. As employers, schools are responsible for managing their staff and monitoring their performance, including matters relating to teachers' conduct and discipline. For suspected cases of teachers' professional misconduct, the Education Bureau will keep close contact with schools and urge schools to follow up seriously. Should members of the public have any views on the teaching materials or teachers' professional conduct of individual schools, they may approach the schools concerned or the Education Bureau.
(9) The Education Bureau officers have been monitoring the quality of learning and teaching through external school reviews, focus inspections on different subjects and curriculum development visits. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1519
The Education Bureau has recently appointed officers from the LS Section of the Curriculum Development Institute ("CDI") to double as inspectors. The purpose of engaging these officers is to sustain the professionalism in curriculum development through the collaborative efforts with inspectors from the Quality Assurance Sections ("QAS") in conducting curriculum development visits-cum-focus inspections. The procedures, requirements and follow-up actions of focus inspections, including the focus inspections on LS carried out jointly by CDI and QAS, are consistent among all subjects. Through scrutiny of relevant documents (such as curriculum documents, student assignments and examination papers), discussions with school personnel as well as observation of lessons and activities in relation to the subject concerned, inspectors get to understand the implementation of the curriculum in schools. Based on the school context, inspectors evaluate the subject performance and provide schools with specific professional advice for their continuous improvement in the implementation of the subject curriculum.
The synergy achieved from curriculum development visits-cum-focus inspections conducted jointly by Curriculum Development Officers of the LS Section and the QAS inspectors, will not only benefit schools but also CDI. By following the advice from inspectors, schools can continue to enhance the effectiveness of learning and teaching of LS. Also, CDI can improve the curriculum design and develop more suitable teaching resources with reference to the learning and teaching situation observed during inspection for promoting continuous development in learning and teaching. Should the quality of learning and teaching of a school fall short of satisfaction, the Education Bureau will take follow-up actions in accordance with the established mechanism, such as urging the incorporated management committee/school management committee to make improvement based on the inspection report, encouraging the school to seek school-based support services from us. If necessary, a follow-up inspection will be arranged to ensure that the school has taken appropriate follow-up actions to address the recommendations made in the focus inspection for improving the learning and teaching effectiveness of the subject.
1520 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
The rights and welfare of arrested children
14. DR FERNANDO CHEUNG (in Chinese): President, since 9 June this year, a number of large-scale public meetings and processions ("public events") relating to the "anti-extradition to China" movement have occurred in Hong Kong. During those public events, a number of demonstrators and bystanders, including children under the age of 16, were arrested. It has been reported that subsequent to the arrests of three children aged between 13 and 15 on 29 August this year, despite confirmation from their parents that they would fulfil their duty to protect and care for their children, the Police still filed applications to the juvenile court for Care or Protection Orders ("C or P Orders"). Such children were detained in Tuen Mun Children and Juvenile Home ("TMCJH") of the Social Welfare Department ("SWD"), for 27 days in the longest case, while the court was awaiting reports from SWD. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the number of cases of the Police arresting children under the age of 16 during public events since 9 June this year, and set out the following details of each case in a table by date of arrest: (i) the age of the arrestee, (ii) the location of the arrest, (iii) the offence(s) allegedly committed by the arrestee, (iv) the charge(s) laid (if a prosecution has been instituted), (v) the bail conditions (if applicable), and (vi) whether the Police have applied to the court for a C or P Order;
(2) given that although Chapter 49 of the Police General Orders ("PGOs") provides that "[t]o ensure that the rights and welfare of persons with special needs are fully addressed, … the presence of an appropriate adult is mandatory for detained persons under the age of 16 and detained persons who are or suspected to be mentally incapacitated", some social workers who were at the scene of the aforesaid public events have pointed out that the Police refused to let these social workers accompany children under the age of 16 who had been arrested to the police station or accompany them throughout their detention, whether it has assessed if such practice of the Police has contravened the relevant requirements of PGOs;
(3) whether it has assessed if the Police's treatment of the aforesaid three children conforms to the requirements of Article 37 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child (i.e. "States Parties shall LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1521
ensure that … [t]he arrest, detention or imprisonment of a child shall be in conformity with the law and shall be used only as a measure of last resort and for the shortest appropriate period of time"); and
(4) of the mechanism in place for dealing with requests from religious personnel and Members of this Council for paying official visits to children under the age of 16 who are being detained in TMCJH, including how the urgency of such visits is to be determined, and whether the views of the detainees will be sought beforehand?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, our reply to Dr Fernando CHEUNG's question is as follows:
(1) There have been conflicts and violence arising from public protests and processions since 9 June. As at 31 October, the Police arrested 3 001 persons in total, of which 510 arrestees were charged with offences including "rioting", "unlawful assembly", "possession of offensive weapons", "criminal damage" and "using facial covering while at an unlawful assembly" etc. Among the 165 arrestees under the age of 16, 19 were charged with alleged offences including those mentioned above. The Police do not maintain the number of applications for care or protection orders.
(2) In general, a person upon arrest by the Police will be brought to the police station as soon as possible to confirm the legality of his custody and arrest before the Duty Officer. The arrestee will then be handed over to Police's investigation team for further investigation. After completing the preliminary investigation, the Police will decide whether detention of the arrestee is required. Police will consider releasing an arrestee on his own recognizance, on bail or unconditionally having regard to the circumstances of individual cases.
Police have put in place clear guidelines on handling child or juvenile arrestees to protect their rights and welfare. According to the Police General Orders, if the arrested person is under the age of 16, Police shall make all reasonable efforts to inform the parent(s) or guardian of the child or young person concerned to come to the 1522 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
station whilst the child or young person is being held. Under reasonable and practicable circumstances, the Police will request an "appropriate adult" to accompany the child or young person at the police station before carrying out investigation on the child or young person. An "appropriate adult" is defined as the following:
(a) a relative, guardian or other person for care or custody of that person;
(b) someone who has experience of dealing with a person with a particular special need, but who is not a police officer nor employed by police; or
(c) failing either of the above, some other responsible adult who is not a police officer nor employed by the police.
The Police will arrange appropriate adults for arrestees according to established procedures and guidelines.
Before carrying out a custody search on a detained person under the age of 16, the Duty Officer will ensure the presence of an appropriate adult of the same gender as the arrestee. Subsequent investigations against a detained person, including the taking of statement, collecting intimate body samples, etc., must also be conducted in the presence of an appropriate adult.
Police strives to protect the privacy and rights of detained persons at all times. Police will ensure that males and females shall not be detained in the same temporary holding area, and that adults shall be detained separately from children and juveniles. Detained children and juveniles enjoy the same fundamental rights as ordinary persons, including the rights to request and receive medical treatment, seek legal service and assistance, communicate with a relative or friend, etc. If temporary care has to be arranged, the persons concerned will be transferred to the Tuen Mun Children and Juvenile Home ("TMCJH") for detention.
Detained persons are entitled to the rights set out in the Notice to Persons in Police Custody or Involved in Police Enquiries. The Police will issue and explain the notice to every detained child and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1523
juvenile in the presence of an appropriate adult, and the appropriate adult shall acknowledge the content by signing the notice. Besides, all appropriate adults will be issued with the Notice to "Appropriate Adult" for Person Assisting/under Police Enquiry/in Police Custody who is Mentally Incapacitated or Aged under 16 which explains the roles and responsibilities of an appropriate adult, so as to help them understand how they can provide appropriate support to arrestees.
(3) Under the Protection of Children and Juveniles Ordinance (Cap. 213), a care or protection order may be issued to a person aged below 18 who requires care or protection. If any factor or circumstance below is found in respect of a child or juvenile, a police officer may apply to a juvenile court for issuance of such order to provide the child or juvenile in need with care or protection. According to section 34(2) of the ordinance, a child or juvenile in need of care or protection means a child or juvenile:
(a) who has been or is being assaulted, ill-treated, neglected or sexually abused; or
(b) whose health, development or welfare has been or is being neglected or avoidably impaired; or
(c) whose health, development or welfare appears likely to be neglected or avoidably impaired; or
(d) who is beyond control, to the extent that harm may be caused to him or to others,
and who requires care or protection.
In considering whether to apply for a care or protection order, the Police have along follow the said ordinance by taking into account the circumstances of individual cases and determining if the person concerned meets the criteria to be identified as a child or juvenile in need of care or protection under the law at that time. Whether a order will be issued eventually is a decision by the Court.
As an application for leave for judicial review on the relevant issue has been lodged, it is not appropriate for us to comment on any individual case at this stage. 1524 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
(4) The Social Welfare Department ("SWD") respects children's rights, including their freedom of religion and thought. SWD will, in collaboration with various religious organizations, provide after-school groups and support activities for children in juvenile homes under its purview to help them build meaningful community connections.
TMCJH under SWD provides refuge to children or juveniles aged 8 to below 18 who require care or protection. Given that persons detained in TMCJH are minors, if anyone other than their parents or guardians requests a visit, SWD's case social workers concerned will first make an assessment to ensure that the visit is relevant to the welfare plans of respective children or juveniles in order to protect their privacy and rights. They must also obtain the consent of parents or guardians before issuing an instruction of approval for visit to TMCJH.
Based on the above criteria, SWD's case social worker concerned will, in accordance with the actual circumstances of individual cases, make corresponding assessments and decisions which meet the welfare needs of respective children or juveniles with regard to individual visit requests.
Hand, foot and mouth disease
15. DR HELENA WONG (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that earlier on, a primary school stated in a notice to the parents that some of its students had contracted the hand, foot and mouth disease ("HFMD"), and that the Centre for Health Protection ("CHP") of the Department of Health had instructed that there was no need for students to wear masks because the disease was not transmitted by respiratory droplets. In response to media enquiries, CHP advised that while wearing masks was not the main measure for preventing the disease, it had not given the said instruction. Furthermore, CHP points out on its website that HFMD is mainly transmitted by contact with an infected person's nose or throat discharges, saliva, etc. In its guidelines distributed to schools, CHP classifies the mode of transmission for HFMD as "contact transmission" instead of "droplet transmission". However, a paediatrician has pointed out that the disease can be transmitted by respiratory droplets (saliva being a type of such droplets), and that wearing masks is one of the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1525 precautionary measures. Some members of the public find the relevant information on HFMD confusing. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether CHP has gained an understanding from the aforesaid primary school on the reasons for the school stating in the notice that CHP had given the aforesaid instruction;
(2) whether CHP will discuss with the medical sector the ways for providing the public with clear guidelines on prevention of HFMD, including the effectiveness of wearing masks in preventing the transmission of HFMD; and
(3) whether CHP has conducted studies on the effectiveness of wearing masks in lowering the infection rate of HFMD; if so, of the outcome; if not, whether it will conduct such studies?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, hand, foot and mouth disease ("HFMD") is a common disease in children caused by enteroviruses such as coxsackieviruses and enterovirus 71. In Hong Kong, the usual peak season for HFMD is from May to July and a smaller peak may also occur from October to December. Having consulted the Department of Health ("DH"), reply to the question raised by Dr Helena WONG is as follows:
On the mode of transmission of HFMD, unlike influenza viruses which mainly spread through droplets when infected persons cough, sneeze or talk, viruses that cause HFMD, despite their presence in droplets from infected persons, mainly spread by contact with an infected person's nose or throat discharges, saliva, fluid from vesicles or stool, or by touching contaminated objects. The incubation period of HFMD is about three to seven days. The disease is most contagious during the first week of the illness and the viruses can be found in stool for weeks. As there is no effective vaccine to prevent HFMD at present, good personal and environmental hygiene are the mainstay of prevention.
Key measures for maintaining good personal hygiene are:
(1) perform hand hygiene frequently, especially before touching the mouth, nose or eyes, before eating or handling food, after touching blisters, and after using the toilet; 1526 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
(2) wash hands with liquid soap and water, and rub for at least 20 seconds. Then rinse with water and dry with a disposable paper towel or hand dryer. If hand washing facilities are not available, or when hands are not visibly soiled, hand hygiene with 70% to 80% alcohol-based handrub is an effective alternative;
(3) cover mouth and nose with tissue paper when sneezing or coughing. Dispose of soiled tissue paper into a lidded rubbish bin, then wash hands thoroughly;
(4) use serving chopsticks and spoons at meal time. Do not share food and drinks with others;
(5) do not share towels and personal items with others;
(6) avoid close contact (such as kissing and hugging) with infected persons;
(7) refrain from work or attending school, and seek medical advice when feeling unwell; and
(8) exclude infected persons from handling food and from providing care to children, the elderly and immunocompromised people.
Key measures for maintaining good environmental hygiene are:
(1) regularly clean and disinfect frequently touched surfaces such as furniture, toys and commonly shared items with 1:99 diluted household bleach (i.e. mixing 1 part of 5.25% bleach with 99 parts of water), leave for 15 to 30 minutes, rinse with water and wipe dry. For metallic surface, disinfect with 70% alcohol;
(2) use absorbent disposable towels to wipe away obvious contaminants such as respiratory secretions, vomitus or excreta, then disinfect the contaminated surface and neighbouring areas with 1:49 diluted household bleach (i.e. mixing 1 part of 5.25% bleach with 49 parts of water), leave for 15 to 30 minutes, rinse with water and wipe dry. For metallic surface, disinfect with 70% alcohol; and
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1527
(3) avoid group activities when HFMD outbreak occurs in schools or institutions. Meanwhile, schools and institutions should minimize staff movement and arrange for the same group of staff to take care of the same group of students as far as possible.
Generally speaking, upon notification of HFMD outbreaks from schools, DH's Centre for Health Protection ("CHP") will liaise with the schools concerned for epidemiological investigation and advise on necessary infection control measures. Such measures include intensified cleaning and disinfection of frequently touched surfaces (such as furniture, toys, shared items) and obvious contaminants (such as respiratory secretions, vomitus or excreta); avoiding group activities during the HFMD outbreak; and ensuring that staff and students perform hand hygiene frequently, refrain from attending school and seek medical advice when feeling unwell. CHP had handled the HFMD outbreak of the primary school concerned according to the above established practice.
It should be noted that while viruses that cause HFMD can be present in patients' droplets, droplet transmission is not the major mode of transmission. Hence, wearing masks is generally not regarded as a key measure to prevent HFMD. Nonetheless, under no circumstances would CHP advise staff or students against wearing masks in schools where HFMD outbreaks occur. CHP has all along advised schools to adopt a multi-pronged approach in implementing various preventive measures against infectious diseases, by following the "Guidelines on Prevention of Communicable Diseases in Schools/Kindergartens/Kindergartens-cum-Child Care Centres/Child Care Centres" (at Annex), which include the proper use of masks, among other things. After the aforementioned primary school issued relevant notice to parents, CHP had reiterated the health advice on prevention of HFMD to the school.
Besides, when local activity of HFMD increases, CHP will issue letters to all doctors and schools, urging them to stay vigilant against HFMD infection and providing information on a series of preventive and control measures, among other things. Moreover, DH disseminates health messages on the prevention of communicable diseases and maintenance of personal and environmental hygiene, through various means, to the public, institutions, schools, health care personnel and stakeholders. DH will continue to strengthen related publicity and risk communication work. As regards the effectiveness of wearing masks in reducing the infection rate of HFMD, CHP will keep in view international studies and related recommendations.
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Health impacts of the chemicals used to disperse crowds
16. PROF JOSEPH LEE (in Chinese): President, since June this year, during their operations to disperse demonstrators in various districts, the Police used pepper sprays, fired pepper balls and tear gas rounds, as well as deployed specialized crowd management vehicles (commonly known as "water cannon vehicles") to spray coloured water containing irritants. The Secretary for Food and Health has indicated earlier that the impacts of tear gas on human health are short-term. However, it has been pointed out in an article published recently in the Lancet, a medical journal, that an overseas research study found that among 5 910 people who had been exposed to such chemical irritants, two died and many suffered permanent disabilities. The authors of the article have criticized the Hong Kong Government for neither taking the lead in cleaning the places contaminated by these chemicals nor issuing decontamination guidelines and health advice. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) whether it knows the respective human health risks posed by (i) pepper spray, (ii) tear gas and (iii) coloured water; whether it has monitored continuously the latest reports on the risks posed by such chemicals to physical health and public health; if it has not, of the reasons for that;
(2) of the number of street cleaning exercises carried out since June this year by the service contractors of the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department for removing the chemicals concerned, with a breakdown by District Council district; the protective gear provided to the frontline workers; whether the Department has monitored if the workers employed by the contractors have removed the chemicals in accordance with the guidelines; whether the Government will take the initiative to assist the persons-in-charge of private places in removing such chemicals;
(3) given that some members of the public whose bodies had been stained with coloured water went to seek medical treatment but the doctors were unable to prescribe the right treatment because they did not know the composition of the coloured water, whether the Government will fully make public the composition of the various types of chemicals used by the Police, so that persons exposed to such chemicals may receive appropriate treatment; and
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(4) whether it will request the Police not to use such chemicals again in the vicinity of residential areas, schools, residential care homes for the elderly, hospitals, food premises and densely populated areas, so as to avoid causing hazards to the health and lives of members of the public?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, the Government appeals to the public to express their demands in a peaceful and rational way, to embody democracy under the principles of tolerance and respect, and to uphold the rule of law by lawful and reasonable means.
The Police have a statutory duty to maintain law and order. When public order and safety are severely threatened by incidents such as illegal road blockage, paralysed traffic, unlawful assemblies and violent charging of police cordon lines, etc., the Police will take appropriate actions after risk assessment to maintain law and order. Pepper spray, tear gas and Specialised Crowd Management Vehicles ("SCMVs") are equipment used to disperse crowd, the purpose of which is to stop people from gathering or committing illegal acts.
In consultation with the Security Bureau, the Department of Health ("DH"), the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department ("FEHD"), and the Hospital Authority ("HA"), consolidated reply to the various parts of the question raised by Prof Joseph LEE is as follows:
(1) On health effects of tear gas, in consultation with relevant departments and experts, DH has uploaded health information on tear gas to the website of the Centre for Health Protection ("CHP") for general public's reference. Please visit the CHP website
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Symptoms that may generally occur after exposure to pepper spray include a burning sensation of the skin and discomfort in the eyes, etc. These symptoms would usually disappear within a short period of time after the exposure.
According to Police's information, the colourant used in SCMVs is non-toxic and will not cause bodily harm. When using SCMVs, Police may also add in pepper based solution having regard to actual needs. The main effect of pepper based solution is similar to pepper spray. Exposure to pepper based solution will cause one to have a burning sensation of the skin and discomfort in the eyes, but these symptoms would usually disappear after a short period of time.
(2) The personal safety as well as the occupational safety and health of government employees and outsourced workers (including cleansing workers) are of vital importance. FEHD has issued guidelines to its employees and cleansing service contractors, including reminders and suggestions on personal protective equipment for cleaning residues of tear gas and chemicals from SCMVs. The guidelines stipulate, among others, that cleansing workers should wear masks, rubber gloves, rubber aprons when conducting relevant works, and put on respirators (N95 type or comparable), eye protectors and hats if considered necessary after risk assessment. Cleansing workers should, upon discovery of dangerous goods or chemical waste, report to FEHD which will then refer the case to relevant departments.
As stipulated in public cleansing service contracts, contractors shall comply with all legislation in relation to contract execution, including the Occupational Safety and Health Ordinance (Cap. 509) and its subsidiary legislation. They are also required to provide their employees with adequate personal protective clothing, equipment and safety training, and make appropriate work arrangements.
FEHD does not keep the statistics on frequency of street washing conducted for removal of residues by its cleansing service contractors.
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(3) The colourant used in Police's SCMVs is non-toxic. When using SCMVs, the Police may also add in pepper based solution having regard to actual needs. The main effect of pepper based solution is similar to pepper spray.
According to HA, there were cases where people attended the accident and emergency ("A&E") departments of HA due to discomfort after exposure to tear gas or blue liquid sprayed by SCMVs. Those who were exposed to tear gas or blue liquid generally experienced mild respiratory and skin irritation, and there was no serious health impact reported. Most of them could be immediately discharged after rinsing and receiving treatment at the A&E departments. Decontamination facilities are available at all 18 A&E departments of HA for treating patients who have been exposed to biochemical/hazardous substances. Health care personnel are also experienced in treating these cases.
(4) The Government reiterates that if the public can express their views in a peaceful and rational manner, the Police do not need to use any force. Police have been committed to safeguarding the public safety and public order of Hong Kong. We hope that members of the public would understand this.
Police understand the community's concerns about the use of tear gas near residential buildings, and will take into account the safety and interests of the affected people as far as possible when using the tear gas. Before the operation, the Police will, as far as possible, maintain close contact with the nearby building management offices, commercial tenants and elderly homes through various channels to remind them of Police's possible actions in relation to the demonstration activities so that they can make arrangements accordingly. During the operation, the Police will also appeal to residents in the vicinity to pay attention to the situation through social media and press releases, and to close the windows and stay in a safe place indoors if necessary.
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Value for money audits for the public health institutions
17. MR CHAN HAN-PAN (in Chinese): President, in the past two decades, the Audit Commission conducted value for money audits on a number of occasions in respect of the work and services of particular areas under the purview of the Hospital Authority ("HA") and the Department of Health ("DH"), and published 8 and 16 reports respectively. However, such audits did not cover issues of overall operation of these two institutions. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council whether, in the past five years, the Government conducted on its own or commissioned consultants to conduct:
(1) comprehensive, large-scale and in-depth value for money audits on the overall services, use of integrated resources and administrative management (i.e. rather than particular work and services) of HA and DH; if so, of the details (including the personnel responsible for the audits, the outcome and the recommendations); if not, the reasons for that;
(2) value for money audits on the cost-effectiveness (including the effectiveness on aspects such as shortening patients' waiting time, and enhancing the efficiency of administrative management and work of healthcare workers) of the additional funding allocated by the Government respectively to HA and DH in each of the past five years; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(3) value for money audits respectively on four aspects of the work of HA and DH, namely (i) streamlining service procedures, (ii) optimizing the use of human and financial resources, (iii) alleviating the work pressure on frontline healthcare workers, and (iv) boosting the work enthusiasm and morale of healthcare teams; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(4) value for money audits on the service cross-referral and collaboration between HA and DH; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that; and
(5) a cross-institutional, comprehensive and integrated value for money audit in respect of the arrangements for division of labour in the provision of public healthcare services by HA and DH; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that?
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SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, in consultation with the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau, Audit Commission, Hospital Authority ("HA") and Department of Health ("DH"), my reply to the question raised by Mr CHAN Han-pan is as follows:
(1) to (3)
As an independent auditing body of the Government, the Audit Commission conducts value for money audits of government departments and related organizations from time to time with a view to examining their economy, efficiency and effectiveness when discharging their functions.
Since 1999, the Audit Commission has conducted 8 and 16 value for money audits on HA and DH respectively. The issues examined included waiting time of the HA's patients for specialist outpatient services, drug management and public-private partnership programmes of HA, and the DH's provision of health services for the elderly, efforts in tobacco control and provision of dental services, etc.
In addition to the audit work of the Audit Commission, the Government has been monitoring the operation and utilization of resources of HA and DH through various channels.
HA
HA is an independent statutory body established under the Hospital Authority Ordinance (Cap. 113). The Ordinance includes provisions specifying that HA should use the hospital resources efficiently to provide hospital services of the highest possible standard with the resources obtainable.
To ensure accountability to the public for the management and control of the public health care services system, three government officials are ex-officio members of the HA Board and participate in the governance of HA. Moreover, the Government sets out the performance targets of HA in the Controlling Officer's Report under Head 140 in the Government's Estimates each year. These LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1585 performance targets cover various aspects, including access to services (such as waiting time), delivery of services, quality of services, cost of services and manpower, etc. Through regular reports submitted by HA, the HA Board and the Government assess and examine the performance of HA in accordance with these targets. Relevant service targets, performance and budget estimates are submitted for the vetting and approval of the Legislative Council every year. In the past three years, the Government has provided around 200 to 250 replies regarding funding for HA and relevant services each year in response to questions raised by the Legislative Council Finance Committee Members during the examination of the annual estimates of expenditure by the Finance Committee.
In 2013, the Government established the Steering Committee on Review of HA to conduct a comprehensive review of the operation of HA to explore viable measures for enhancing the cost-effectiveness and quality of its services. The Steering Committee issued a report in July 2015 and HA formulated an action plan in October of the same year with a view to implementing the recommendations of the Steering Committee within three years. The Government has been closely monitoring the progress of HA's implementation of the recommendations. HA submitted a final report to the Government in October 2018 concluding the completion of the implementation of the HA Review Action Plan. HA will continue to implement the ongoing and continuous initiatives for the enhancement of public health care services in Hong Kong.
The HA's Group Internal Audit Department is established under the HA's governance and control framework. It is operationally independent of the HA management and reports directly to the Audit and Risk Committee of the HA Board. The Group Internal Audit Department helps HA to evaluate and improve the effectiveness of internal controls, risk management, and governance processes through adopting a systematic and disciplined approach. Its scope covers HA-wide significant risk areas and includes examining value for money in terms of economical, efficient and effective use of resources.
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Besides, HA has established various key performance indicators, and measures the quality and efficiency of key service performance through the established performance benchmarks to drive service improvement. HA also measures the performance outcome of initiatives against the pre-set targets or deliverables of the funded programmes formulated through the annual planning exercise. In addition to submitting quarterly progress review reports, which set out the service performance on the key performance indicators of HA and progress of funded programmes under the annual plan, to the Food and Health Bureau, HA also reports quarterly to the HA Board on the relevant progress. Moreover, HA will provide in the HA Annual Report an overview on the HA's performance and achievement for the year under report for public reference.
Regarding funding for HA, the Government allocated $68.8 billion to HA in 2019-2020, which was an increase of $18 billion (or 35%) over the $50.8 billion allocation in 2015-2016. The additional funding is mainly used to address the increasing demand for health care services, and to implement new measures and enhance services. Major areas of work are as follows:
(i) opening new beds in public hospitals;
(ii) phased commissioning of the planned medical services of the completed hospital projects in a timely manner. Hospital projects completed in recent years include Tin Shui Wai Hospital, North Lantau Hospital (Phase 1) and Hong Kong Children's Hospital;
(iii) expanding palliative care services;
(iv) enhancing treatment and management of cancers and chronic diseases (such as renal diseases and cardiac diseases);
(v) strengthening mental health services;
(vi) continuing to enhance access to accident and emergency, surgical, endoscopic, diagnostic imaging, specialist outpatient and general outpatient services;
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(vii) strengthening support for chronic disease patients through adopting a multi-disciplinary approach in accordance with the primary care development strategy;
(viii) improving quality and safety of services, including strengthening support for clinical service delivery and enhanced response to contingencies;
(ix) widening the coverage of the HA Drug Formulary and extending the therapeutic applications of drugs;
(x) providing appropriate and affordable drugs and treatments for patients with uncommon disorders; and
(xi) strengthening manpower, including implementing various measures to attract and retain staff.
Regarding health care manpower, HA has been actively pursuing various human resources measures to retain talents and relieve pressure of frontline health care staff. HA continues to recruit full-time health care staff, increase the number of Resident Trainee posts to recruit all qualified local medical graduates, and recruit qualified non-locally trained doctors through limited registration.
To enhance manpower support in the short term, HA actively recruits part-time and temporary health care staff, as well as agency nurses and supporting staff. HA has set up the Locum Office to promote the flexible recruitment of part-time health care professionals, and launched the Locum Recruitment Website in November 2018 to provide a more flexible and efficient way of recruitment, so as to attract and recruit more part-time doctors and nurses to work in public hospitals with a view to strengthening manpower support. HA has also implemented the Special Retired and Rehire Scheme to rehire the retired staff to continue to perform clinical duties in HA.
In addition, HA has since 1 April 2019 increased the Fixed Rate Honorarium for doctors, and enhanced the pay for serving Patient Care Assistants, Operation Assistants and Executive Assistants and 1588 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
the respective new recruits. HA will also continue to enhance the promotion prospects of health care staff, increase flexibility of working arrangements, enhance training opportunities and preceptorship support, improve working environment, and recruit ward clerk and assistants to boost staff morale and retain manpower. The Government will continue to closely liaise with HA to formulate other short, medium and long term measures, and examine the effectiveness of various measures with a view to alleviating the pressure on health care staff in HA.
DH
DH sets out the service targets in the annual Controlling Officer's Report under Head 37 and measures the quality and efficiency of performance of major services through established performance indicators. Relevant service targets, performance and budget estimates are submitted for the vetting and approval of the Legislative Council every year. In the past three years, the Government has provided around 100 to 200 replies regarding funding for DH and relevant services each year in response to questions raised by the Members during the examination of the annual estimates of expenditure by the Finance Committee.
Besides, DH is committed to providing quality services and implements the "Performance Pledges Scheme" covering 21 service categories, including elderly health services, family health services, student health services, tuberculosis and chest services, etc. The pledges for most of the services can be met. DH also conducts regular customer satisfaction surveys to understand the users' satisfaction level with individual services of DH and identify areas for improvement.
DH has an Internal Audit Section for conducting internal audit for various service functions of the department covering operational workflow, payment workflow, fund management as well as value for money studies. It provides comments and suggestions on improving cost-effectiveness and internal control measures for consideration by the Departmental Audit Committee.
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In addition, advisory committees have been established for various public health programmes run by DH. Independent statutory bodies (such as Councils and Boards) have also been set up to advise on the DH's enforcement of health-related legislation. These advisory committees and independent statutory bodies are composed of members from different sectors and professions, so as to facilitate monitoring of the implementation of public health programmes and enforcement of health-related legislation.
The total budget of DH in 2019-2020 is $13.3 billion, representing an increase of $6.8 billion (or 105%) from $6.5 billion in 2015-2016. The increased provision is mainly for meeting the increasing service demands under the DH's programmes (including statutory functions, disease prevention, medical care and civil service medical and dental services, etc.), implementing new measures and enhancing services. Some of the major items are as follows:
(i) increase in personal emoluments and personnel related expenses mainly attributable to the increase in establishment and civil service pay adjustments;
(ii) optimization of the Elderly Health Care Voucher Scheme, including the provision of an additional one-off medical voucher of $1,000 in 2018 and 2019 to each eligible elders; and raising the maximum accumulation limit of medical voucher to $8,000 in 2019;
(iii) increase in expense on reimbursement of medical fees and hospital fees for civil servants and eligible persons; and
(iv) implementation of other disease prevention and control measures, including the introduction of colorectal cancer screening programme and the conversion of the programme into a regular one; implementation and optimization of various vaccination schemes (including the seasonal influenza vaccination scheme, the pneumococcal vaccine subsidy scheme, and cervical cancer vaccination scheme, etc.); provision of health screening services for new boundary control points and increase in provision for medicine expenses for the DH's services. 1590 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
Regarding the medical manpower, DH has been recruiting talents in a multi-pronged manner to alleviate the shortage of medical manpower. Various measures include appointment of civil service and contract staff (including staff on non-civil service contract and post-retirement service contract terms), extension of service of civil service medical staff reaching normal retirement age; recruiting contract doctors (including doctors with limited registration) throughout the year; recruiting civil service doctors throughout the year since September 2019 and raising their entry salary point based on the applicant's experience and academic qualifications. In addition, DH organizes recruitment seminars for overseas and local medical students and interns; promulgates the recruitment exercises through the Internet and medical magazines; and provides suitable training support for the serving doctors of DH including the provision of specialist training, provision of examination support for specialists by the two commissioned universities, and provision of sponsorship for them to pursue postgraduate courses. DH reviews the effectiveness of various short, medium and long term human resource measures from time to time with a view to increasing the medical manpower and retaining talents.
The Government will closely monitor the various work and measures of HA and DH mentioned above to ensure efficient use of resources for providing suitable services to the public.
(4) and (5)
DH and HA are two major department and institution under the Hong Kong public health care system and play their respective roles and responsibilities. DH is the Government's health adviser. It performs public health functions including health promotion, disease prevention as well as regulation of drugs, health care professionals and health care facilities. Meanwhile, HA provides the public with a wide range of curative and rehabilitative services through its hospitals, specialist outpatient clinics, general outpatient clinics and community outreach teams.
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HA and DH have been complementing and facilitating promotion of the Government's policies in different areas such as health promotion, public health and public health care services through collaboration and service referrals at different levels to serve the public. The DH's units which provide primary health care services, such as Maternal and Child Health Centres, Student Health Service Centres and Elderly Health Centres, will refer their patients to the specialist outpatient clinics of HA for follow-up treatment according to their needs. Similarly, DH will also take on cases referred by HA for specialist services, such as those provided in the DH's dermatological clinics, chest clinics and the clinical services for people infected with Human Immunodeficiency Virus. DH and HA have been working in tandem to offer medical services while performing their respective functions. In addition, the Food and Health Bureau coordinates inter-departmental efforts in public health and medical programmes through various platforms and communication channels, such as colorectal cancer screening programme, organ donation promotion and winter surge preparation. HA will also report the progress of individual projects as required by the Government.
The Government will continue to liaise closely with DH and HA, and review the service arrangements when necessary with a view to providing comprehensive public health and medical services that meet the needs of the community.
Coloured water sprayed by specialized crowd management vehicles
18. MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Chinese): President, it has been reported that on 20 October this year, the coloured water sprayed by a specialized crowd management vehicle (commonly known as "water cannon vehicle") operated by the Police when dispersing demonstrators hit 10-odd members of the public and reporters outside the entrance of the Kowloon Mosque. Some of them felt unwell (e.g. temporary loss of sight, burning sensation on the skin) and sought medical consultation, but the doctors were unable to prescribe the right treatment as they were unclear about the composition of the coloured water. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
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(1) whether it knows the number of persons since 1 August this year who sought consultation at public hospitals because their bodies had been stained with the coloured water sprayed by water cannon vehicles and, among them, the number of those admitted to hospitals for treatment;
(2) of the respective names and concentrations of (i) the pigments (ii) the Oleoresin Capsicum jet pack solution, (iii) the adhesives and (iv) other chemicals in the coloured water sprayed by water cannon vehicles; the respective manufacturers and places of origin of such chemicals;
(3) whether it will consider providing all private hospitals, public hospitals and private clinics in Hong Kong with information on the composition of the coloured water as well as the recommended treatment protocols for persons stained with coloured water, so that such persons may receive appropriate treatment; if so, of the details, if not, the reasons for that; and
(4) how persons stained with coloured water can effectively and quickly remove on the spot the coloured water on their bodies in order to alleviate the injuries?
SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH (in Chinese): President, the Government appeals to the public to express their demands in a peaceful and rational way, to embody democracy under the principles of tolerance and respect, and to uphold the rule of law by lawful and reasonable means.
The Police have a statutory duty to maintain law and order. When public order and safety are severely threatened by incidents such as illegal road blockage, paralysed traffic, unlawful assemblies and violent charging of police cordon lines, etc., the Police will take appropriate actions after risk assessment to maintain law and order. Specialised Crowd Management Vehicles are equipment used to disperse crowd, the purpose of which is to stop people from gathering or committing illegal acts.
In consultation with the Security Bureau and the Hospital Authority ("HA"), my consolidated reply to the question raised by Mr CHAN Chi-chuen is as follows:
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According to the Police's information, the colourant used in the Specialised Crowd Management Vehicles is non-toxic. It will not cause bodily harm and will not pose risks to public health. When using the Specialised Crowd Management Vehicles, the Police may also add in pepper based solution having regard to actual needs in order to stop illegal acts. The main effect of pepper based solution is similar to pepper spray. Exposure to pepper based solution will cause one to have a burning sensation of the skin and discomfort in the eyes. Anyone who is exposed to pepper based solution should leave the scene immediately, and wash thoroughly with large amount of water in a ventilated place, in order not be posed to health risks.
According to HA, there were cases where people attended the accident and emergency ("A&E") departments of HA due to discomfort after exposure to blue liquid sprayed by Specialised Crowd Management Vehicles. Those who were exposed to blue liquid generally experienced mild respiratory and skin irritation, and there was no serious health impact reported. Most of them could be immediately discharged after rinsing and receiving treatment at the A&E departments. Decontamination facilities are available at all 18 A&E departments of HA for treating patients who have been exposed to biochemical/hazardous substances. Health care personnel are also experienced in treating these cases. HA does not maintain statistics of relevant attendances.
The Police have been sourcing globally for safe and suitable equipment and ammunitions in accordance with the established procedures to meet operational needs. As the procurement details of the equipment used by the Police involve operational deployment, it is inappropriate for disclosure to avoid affecting the Police's operational capability.
The Government reiterates that if the public can express their views in a peaceful and rational manner, the Police do not need to use any force. The Police have been committed to safeguarding the public safety and public order of Hong Kong. We hope that members of the public would understand this.
Apprenticeship Ordinance
19. MR HO KAI-MING (in Chinese): President, under the Apprenticeship Ordinance (Cap. 47) ("the Ordinance"), an employer who employs a young person (i.e. a person of or over the age of 14 years and under the age of 19 years) 1594 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 in a trade designated under the Ordinance (45 trades in total) must enter into a valid contract of apprenticeship with the young person (unless the young person has completed an apprenticeship, and is in possession of a certificate of completion, in that trade), and send the contract to the Director of Apprenticeship to apply for registration. Employers may also apply for voluntary registration of contracts of apprenticeship involving non-designated trades or employees aged 19 or above. The Office of the Director of Apprenticeship of the Vocational Training Council is the statutory unit which enforces the Ordinance. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the total number of apprentices employed in the 45 designated trades under registered contracts of apprenticeship, together with a breakdown by trade, in each of the past three years;
(2) of the number of contracts of apprenticeship in respect of which employers applied for voluntary registration in each of the past three years; among them, the respective numbers of cases approved and rejected as well as the percentages, together with a breakdown by trade; and
(3) whether it knows the number of Apprenticeship Officers of each rank in the Office of the Director of Apprenticeship, and the average number of cases handled by each officer?
SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Chinese): President, under the Apprenticeship Ordinance ("the Ordinance") (Cap. 47), young persons aged 14 or above may join the Apprenticeship Scheme to receive relevant on-the-job training and vocational education. A young person who is aged 14 or above but below 19 and engaged in a designated trade under the Ordinance, must enter into an apprenticeship contract with the employer and register the contract with the Director of Apprenticeship (i.e. the Executive Director of the Vocational Training Council). Apprentices who are aged 19 or above and engaged in a designated trade, or apprentices who are engaged in a non-designated trade, may voluntarily register their apprenticeship contracts with the Director of Apprenticeship. Currently, there are 45 designated trades and more than 50 non-designated trades.
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My reply to the Member's question is as follows:
(1) The numbers of registered apprentices engaged in the designated trades under the Ordinance as at the end of the past three financial years are set out by trade at Annex 1.
(2) The numbers of apprentices whose contracts are voluntarily registered in accordance with the Ordinance as at the end of the past three financial years are set out by trade at Annex 2. During the same period, there was no rejected case of voluntary registration of apprenticeship contracts.
(3) According to the figures as at 31 March 2019, the Office of the Director of Apprenticeship of the Vocational Training Council arranged a total of 6 Apprenticeship Officers and 27 Assistant Apprenticeship Officers to handle the cases of and provide support to 4 936 apprentices. On average, each officer is responsible for 150 cases of apprentices.
Annex 1
Numbers of registered apprentices engaged in the designated trades under the Apprenticeship Ordinance
2016- 2017- 2018- Designated Trade 2017 2018 2019 1 Audio-Visual and Radio-Frequency Mechanic 13 9 2 2 Bamboo Scaffolder - - - 3 Bookbinder - - - 4 Bricklayer/Plasterer/Tiler - - 11 5 Building Services Mechanic 185 174 164 6 Cable Jointer (Power) 22 22 22 7 Carpenter/Joiner - - 11 8 Clothing Machine Mechanic - - - 9 Compositor - - - 10 Construction Plant Mechanic 100 74 58 11 Electrical Appliances Service Mechanic 9 7 4 1596 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
2016- 2017- 2018- Designated Trade 2017 2018 2019 12 Electrical Fitter 73 72 70 13 Electrician 521 512 512 14 Fitter - - - 15 Gas Utilization Fitter 59 66 60 16 Goldsmith (Fine-gold) - - - 17 Goldsmith (K-gold) 1 - - 18 Hotel Cook (Western Style) - - - 19 Instrument Mechanic 1 - - 20 Knitting Machine Mechanic - - - 21 Lift Electrician 525 569 656 22 Lift Mechanic - - - 23 Machinist - - - 24 Metal Furniture Maker - - - 25 Mould and Die Maker and Repairer 4 - - 26 Offset Litho Plate-Maker - - - 27 Overhead Linesman 15 20 14 28 Painter/Decorator (Furniture) - - - 29 Painter/Decorator/Sign Writer 1 - 11 30 Plumber 20 18 27 31 Precious Stone Setter - - - 32 Printing Machine Operator (Letterpress) - - - 33 Printing Machine Operator (Offset Litho) - - - 34 Process Camera Operator - - - 35 Radio/Television Mechanic - - - 36 Refrigeration/Air-conditioning Mechanic 430 442 416 37 Repairman (Electronics Manufacturing) - - - 38 Textile Mechanic - - - 39 Tool and Die Maker - - - 40 Vehicle Body Repairer/Builder 71 83 91 41 Vehicle Electrician 83 71 64 42 Vehicle Mechanic 431 414 379 43 Vehicle Painter 31 26 36 44 Vehicle Panel Beater/Body Builder - - - 45 Wood Furniture Maker - - - Total 2 595 2 579 2 608
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Annex 2
Numbers of apprentices whose contracts are voluntarily registered in accordance with the Apprenticeship Ordinance
2016- 2017- 2018- Trade 2017 2018 2019 1 Audio-Visual and Radio-Frequency Mechanic 4 - - 2 Bricklayer/Plasterer/Tiler - - 10 3 Building Services Mechanic 121 119 116 4 Cable Jointer (Power) 14 12 12 5 Carpenter/Joiner - - 10 6 Construction Plant Mechanic 81 58 48 7 Electrical Appliances Service Mechanic 8 6 4 8 Electrical Fitter 50 42 37 9 Electrician 367 356 342 10 Gas Utilization Fitter 30 31 35 11 Goldsmith (K-gold) 1 - - 12 Lift Electrician 342 369 445 13 Mould and Die Maker and Repairer 2 - - 14 Overhead Linesman 13 15 9 15 Painter/Decorator/Sign Writer - - 8 16 Plumber 16 13 20 17 Refrigeration/Air-conditioning Mechanic 205 212 191 18 Vehicle Body Repairer/Builder 41 53 49 19 Vehicle Electrician 57 44 38 20 Vehicle Mechanic 286 257 237 21 Vehicle Painter 15 12 17 22 Air-conditioning Technician 3 2 2 23 Aircraft Maintenance Mechanic I 168 84 56 24 Aircraft Maintenance Mechanic II 36 51 53 25 Aircraft Painting Mechanic 1 2 4 26 Analytical Testing Technician - 6 5 27 Assistant Jewellery Production Designer 2 - - 28 Assistant Watch Technical Officer 3 2 - 29 Building Services Technician 205 225 200 30 Communication System Mechanic 21 18 10 31 Construction Assistant 15 10 6 32 Construction Materials Testing Technician 30 26 17 33 Construction Technician 560 491 420 1598 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
2016- 2017- 2018- Trade 2017 2018 2019 34 Craft Apprentice (Waterworks) 16 16 17 35 Craftsman (Air-conditioning) 83 115 136 36 Craftsman (Electrical) 134 175 175 37 Craftsman (Electronic) 26 35 38 38 Craftsman (Mechanical) 179 164 156 39 Craftsman (Vehicle) 39 63 56 40 Electrical Engineering Technician 161 157 143 41 Electronics Craftsman 10 13 23 42 Electronics Technician 53 50 47 43 Engineering Assistant (Air-Conditioning) 2 2 2 44 Engineering Assistant (Building Services) 6 8 12 45 Engineering Assistant (Electrical) 18 9 8 46 Fire Services Mechanic 35 28 30 47 Fire Services Technician 2 6 9 48 Gas Network Fitter 26 22 19 49 Graphic Designer 6 6 4 50 Graphic Designer Assistant (Printing) 2 1 - 51 Lift Control Mechanic 16 18 16 52 Lift Technician 33 39 51 53 Mechanical Engineering Technician 75 66 53 54 Mechanical Fitter 129 134 126 55 Media Publication Assistant 12 12 10 56 Medical Operations Assistant 11 14 13 57 Metal Worker - 3 11 58 Passenger Services Agent - - 12 59 Permanent Way Mechanic 62 61 53 60 Production Planner (Printing) 4 4 - 61 Quantity Surveying Technician 108 79 69 62 Refrigeration/Air-conditioning Technician 22 22 21 63 Security and Communication Systems Mechanic 18 30 29 64 Standby Generator Electrical Fitter 1 1 1 65 Steel Fabricator 11 8 7 66 Technical Assistant (Security Systems) 4 2 1 67 Technician (Air-conditioning) 20 18 22 68 Technician (Building Services) 37 36 23 69 Technician (Electrical) 26 27 39 70 Technician (Electronic) 38 35 37 71 Technician (Mechanical) 35 29 26 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1599
2016- 2017- 2018- Trade 2017 2018 2019 72 Technician (Vehicle) 6 6 8 73 Terminal Services Operator - - 11 74 Vehicle Technician 44 36 26 75 Watch Technical Assistant 10 13 15 76 Welder 3 2 -
Total 4 220 4 081 3 956
Note:
Apprentices who voluntarily registered their contracts in accordance with the Ordinance include those who are engaged in the non-designated trades or those who are aged 19 or above. As both Annexes 1 and 2 covered the numbers of registered apprentices who are aged 19 or above engaged in the designated trades, some figures are overlapped.
Tenants Purchase Scheme
20. MR CHAN CHUN-YING (in Chinese): President, the Hong Kong Housing Authority ("HA") implemented, from 1998 to 2005, the Tenants Purchase Scheme ("TPS") for tenants of 39 selected public rental housing ("PRH") estates to buy the flats in which they lived at a discounted price. Since then, HA has not added any estate to TPS, and one of the reasons is that the co-existence of flat owners of TPS estates and HA's PRH tenants ("mixed tenure") has given rise to quite a number of problems in estate management and repair. For example, the Housing Department ("HD") cannot effectively carry out repair works in buildings that involve both sold and rental units. On the other hand, the Chief Executive ("CE") has mentioned in this year's Policy Address that she will propose that HA make active preparations to accelerate the sale of about 42 000 flats that remain unsold in the 39 TPS estates. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the numbers of complaints or requests for assistance, received by HD in each of the past five years, relating to the repair of the common areas (e.g. schools and slopes) in TPS estates, and the details of each case, including the amount of repair costs shared by each household;
1600 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
(2) of its new thinking on resolving the problem of unclear delineation of powers and responsibilities in respect of the repair work for TPS estates caused by a mixed tenure;
(3) given that at present, the Government may invoke the Roads (Works, Use and Compensation) Ordinance (Cap. 370) to resume private streets, whether the Government may invoke the Ordinance or other legislation to resume the common areas in TPS estates; if so, of the details; and
(4) as CE has indicated that while she has no in‑principle objection to a relaunch of TPS, the implementation of TPS will reduce the number of PRH flats available for allocation in the short term, and she will invite HA to look into the matter seriously when there is more certainty on the overall supply of public housing, of the specific indicators for "more certainty", and whether such indicators include the waiting time for PRH?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, our reply to Mr CHAN Chun-ying's question is as follows:
(1) and (2)
The Hong Kong Housing Authority ("HA") launched 39 Tenants Purchase Scheme ("TPS") estates from 1998 to 2005. At present, of the about 180 000 flats in these 39 TPS estates, about 42 000 flats remain unsold. Sitting tenants may still choose to purchase their flats.
Under TPS, the coexistence of flat owners and HA's tenants in the same estates has given rise to a number of estate management and maintenance problems. Due to mixed ownership in TPS estates, the Housing Department ("HD") cannot effectively carry out maintenance works (such as ceiling seepage, pipe leakage, etc.) which involve both sold flats and rental units simultaneously.
To be in line with government policies and the Building Management Ordinance ("BMO"), HA encourages owners to participate in and decide for themselves the estate management LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1601 issues and has all along been assisting owners of TPS estates to form Owners' Corporations ("OCs") in accordance with BMO to manage their own properties and estates. After taking over the management of the estates, OCs have the full responsibility for the day-to-day management and maintenance of the common areas and facilities in the estates.
As the owner of unsold flats in TPS estates, HA appoints representatives from HD to run in elections for the management committees of OCs; if elected, HD representatives will take part in the management of the estates jointly with other members, including advising OCs on the day-to-day management, the requirements of the Deeds of Mutual Covenant ("DMC") and relevant legislation. In addition, HD representatives will encourage owners to act in the overall interests of the estates so as to safeguard the interests of all owners, including HA. HA will also convey unsold flat tenants' views on the management and requests for maintenance of the properties and common facilities in the estates, and encourage OCs and the property management companies to maintain communication with HA tenants.
HD has not compiled the relevant information on the numbers of complaints or requests for assistance in the past five years regarding the maintenance of the common areas (e.g. schools and slopes within the boundaries delineated in DMCs) in TPS estates, the details of each case, and the amount of maintenance cost borne by each household in respect of the areas concerned eventually
In 2019 Policy Address, the Chief Executive invited HA to make active preparations with a view to accelerating the sale of the unsold flats in the 39 TPS estates. We believe that this measure can further meet the home ownership aspirations of public rental housing ("PRH") tenants and is also conducive to resolving the estate management and maintenance problems in TPS estates arising from mixed ownership. We plan to consult the Legislative Council Panel on Housing in the first quarter of 2020 on proposed feasible measures.
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(3) If the Government resumes land by virtue of Roads (Works, Use and Compensation) Ordinance (Cap. 370), the purpose has to be for or incidental to road works or use. If the purpose of the resumption of common areas of the estates is to solve the estate management and maintenance issues arising from mixed ownership in TPS estates, this Ordinance may not be applicable.
Similarly, other laws which involve land resumption are enacted with different legislative intents, purposes and applications. Whether or not the Government may resume the common areas in TPS estates by virtue of other laws depend on the actual use of the common areas to be resumed.
(4) In recent years, the Government and HA have been identifying land actively to increase PRH supply so as to address public's demand for PRH. In order to increase public housing supply, the Government has implemented a series of measures, including revising the public/private split for the coming 10-year period from 60:40 to 70:30 in December 2018; reallocating nine sites at Kai Tak and Anderson Road Quarry, which were originally intended for sale in the coming few years, for the use of public housing so as to provide about 11 000 public housing units; and exploring the feasibility of redeveloping the factory estates under HA for public housing development, etc. We hope to gradually alleviate the situation of insufficient public housing supply by implementing these measures. When the overall public housing supply can largely meet the public's demand and after consulting the relevant stakeholders, we will explore the feasibility of relaunching TPS and the relevant arrangements, where applicable, in due course.
Death cases handled by the Police
21. MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Chinese): President, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the following information in respect of each of the death cases (including dead body found cases) handled by the Police during the period from 12 June to 30 September this year (set out in a table):
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1603
(i) the date, time and location of receipt of the case by the Police,
(ii) the gender and age of the deceased,
(iii) whether the identity of the deceased has been confirmed,
(iv) whether the Police has notified the family members of the deceased,
(v) whether the deceased died in official custody,
(vi) whether the deceased had any record of arrest within three months before death,
(vii) the category under which the case is classified,
(viii) whether there were suspicious circumstances surrounding the cause of death, and
(ix) whether investigation of the cause of death has been completed; and
(2) of the respective numbers of fatal suicide cases and dead body found cases during (i) the aforesaid period and (ii) the same period last year, with a breakdown by the age group (each group covering five years) to which the deceased belonged?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Chinese): President, in accordance with section 10 of the Police Force Ordinance (Cap. 232), the duties of the Police Force include assisting coroners to discharge their duties and exercise their powers under the Coroners Ordinance ("CO") (Cap. 504).
In accordance with section 9(1) of CO, a coroner may investigate a reportable death or any other death of a person which the coroner considers should be investigated in the public interest. Section 9(2) specifies that the purpose of such an investigation shall be to investigate the cause of and the circumstances connected with the death of a person.
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As prescribed under CO, there are 20 types of reportable deaths including deaths caused by suicide, an accident or injury as well as crime or suspected crime. In accordance with section 4(1) of CO, where a death comes to the knowledge of a person under a duty to report deaths (including a police officer), he shall report it to the coroners as soon as possible.
In accordance with section 14(1) of CO, where a person dies suddenly, by accident or violence or under suspicious circumstances, a coroner shall hold an inquest into the death. According to section 27 of CO, the purpose of the inquest shall be to inquire into the cause of and the circumstances connected with the death. For that purpose, the proceedings and evidence at the inquest shall be directed to ascertaining the following matters in so far as they may be ascertained, which include the identity of the dead person; how, when and where the person came by his death; and the conclusion of the coroner/jury concerned as to the death.
Our reply to Mr HUI Chi-fung's question is as follows:
(1) and (2)
In handling every death case, the Police report to the coroner's court in strict compliance with the law and guidelines. The Police will investigate every reportable death and submit to the coroners an initial investigation report together with a post-mortem report prepared by a clinical pathologist or forensic pathologist. Where the coroners consider that further investigation of the death is required, the Police will investigate further and submit a more detailed death investigation report. Upon perusal of the relevant report, and upon considering all the circumstances of the case, the coroner will consider whether to hold an inquest into the death.
The Police maintain their professionalism in investigating each of the death cases and follow it up in a meticulous manner. In fact, as indicated in the Coroners' Report 2018, the Coroners recognized the performance of the police investigators and that their standard of conducting investigation into every incident of death was very high, as was their reports.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1605
Based on Police's initial classification at scene, the number of suicide reports (including person found hanging or felt from height), and dead body found and death before or on arrival to hospitals reports (including cases of uncertain cause of death at scene) received by the Police between June and September 2019, as compared with the same period in the past four years, are listed below:
Suicide (including Dead body found, death before Between cases of person found or on arrival to hospitals June to hanging or felt from (including cases of uncertain September height)(1) cause of death at scene)(2) 2019 256 2 537 2018 222 2 226 2017 250 2 407 2016 235 2 161 2015 216 2 159
Notes:
(1) based on Police's initial classification.
(2) cases may be reclassified upon conclusion of the investigation, including reclassifying them as suicide reports.
The above figures do not include reports by persons who have a duty to report deaths to coroners, and the relevant cases are eventually being concluded as suicide cases by the coroners. The Police do not maintain other breakdown statistics as mentioned in the question.
Supply of and demand for car parking spaces
22. MR LUK CHUNG-HUNG (in Chinese): President, it is learnt that car parking spaces in Hong Kong are persistently in short supply, and the shortfall of parking spaces for commercial vehicles is particularly severe. The Transport Department ("TD") is taking forward pilot projects of automated parking systems ("APSs") involving six sites ("pilot projects") with a view to providing more car parking spaces. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:
(1) of the shortfall of car parking spaces in each District Council ("DC") district in each of the past three years, together with a tabulated breakdown by whether the parking spaces in question are 1606 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
for use by (i) private cars or (ii) commercial vehicles; if such figures are not available, whether it will compile such statistics expeditiously;
(2) whether it has set the target completion dates for the assessments on the technical feasibility and financial viability for the various pilot projects; if so, of the details; if not, the reasons for that;
(3) of the new initiatives which will make use of innovation and technology, apart from the introduction of APSs, to be taken by TD in the coming three years for providing more car parking spaces;
(4) as it was pointed out in Report No. 72 of the Director of Audit published in April this year that, as at the end of last year, a number of car parking spaces in five government car parks had been occupied prolongedly by abandoned vehicles, whether the relevant government departments regularly deployed staff to conduct inspections on government car parks in the past three years, to prevent the prolonged occupation of car parking spaces by abandoned vehicles; if so, of the details (including the numbers of inspections conducted and prosecutions initiated);
(5) as the Government will explore, under the principle of "single site, multiple uses", the provision of new public car parks in about 20 works projects, of the public facilities involved in such works projects and the respective numbers of car parking spaces to be provided; and
(6) of the respective numbers of car parking spaces (i) to be added and (ii) to be cancelled, in each DC district in each of the coming three years?
SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING (in Chinese): President, given the hard fact that land resources are limited in Hong Kong, coupled with the need to cater to competing demands for land for community and economic development, objectively speaking, it is virtually impossible for the Government to increase car parking spaces continuously to catch up with the growth rate of the vehicle fleet. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1607
The Government's current policy on the provision of parking spaces is to accord priority to considering and meeting the parking demand of commercial vehicles, and to provide an appropriate number of private car parking spaces if the overall development permits, but at the same time not to attract passengers to opt for private cars in lieu of public transport, so as to avoid aggravating the road traffic. The Transport Department ("TD") is conducting a consultancy study on parking for commercial vehicles to comprehensively assess the shortfall situation, and formulate short-, medium- and long-term measures to address the anticipated demand.
My reply to the various parts of Mr LUK Chung-hung's question is as follows:
(1), (5) and (6)
The numbers of parking spaces by vehicle types in various districts of Hong Kong as at August 2019 are at Annex. As the demand for parking spaces in various districts fluctuates with time and is not static, TD is not able to provide information on the shortfall of parking spaces in each District Council ("DC") district.
The Government will continue to closely monitor the parking needs of different districts and to take forward measures to increase the provision of parking spaces, including taking forward pilot projects on automated parking systems ("APSs").
In accordance with the "single site, multiple uses" principle, TD is proactively exploring the incorporation of new public car parks in about 20 suitable works projects involving "Government, Institution or Community" facilities, public open space, etc. Subject to technical feasibility, it is expected that the relevant projects will provide a total of around 5 100 parking spaces by batches.
Since the number and progress in the provision of new parking spaces through the various measures hinge on a host of factors, TD is not in a position to make a precise projection on the number of parking spaces to be provided in each of the coming three years.
(2) TD is conducting a consultancy study on APSs to ascertain the feasibility and applicability of APSs in Hong Kong. The study is scheduled for completion in early 2020. 1608 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
Meanwhile, TD is taking forward six APS pilot projects so as to acquire and consolidate experience in building, operating and managing different types of APSs and the associated financial arrangements. This will pave the way for wider application of APSs in government and privately operated public car parks in future.
So far, TD has identified four sites for launching APS pilot projects, having regard to such criteria as parking demand, geographical environment, planning restrictions and impact on local traffic, etc. The identified sites include a short-term tenancy ("STT") site in Tsuen Wan, an open space at the junction of Yen Chow Street and Tung Chau Street in Sham Shui Po, the proposed government building on Chung Kong Road in Sheung Wan and the proposed government building on Sheung Mau Street in Chai Wan. For the STT site in Tsuen Wan, TD has already secured support from the Tsuen Wan DC, and it is expected that tender invitation for the site may take place in early 2020. As regards the pilot project in Sham Shui Po, TD is currently assessing the technical feasibility after securing support from the Sham Shui Po DC. For the proposed government buildings in Sheung Wan and Chai Wan, TD will consult relevant DCs in due course.
(3) To promote "smart mobility" and assist motorists in finding parking spaces, TD has disseminated parking vacancy information of public car parks to the public through its "HKeRouting" mobile application since 2016. Subsequently, TD launched in July 2018 an all-in-one mobile application "HKeMobility", integrating "HKeRouting" and two other mobile applications in relation to public transport and driving information, to provide one-stop public access to traffic information. As at end September 2019, "HKeMobility" provided parking vacancy information of 330 public car parks.
On the other hand, TD plans to install a new generation of parking meters by batches starting from the first half of 2020. The new parking meters will be equipped with sensors to detect whether individual parking spaces are occupied, and such real-time LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1609
information and data will be disseminated through "HKeMobility" and the Government's Public Sector Information Portal "data.gov.hk". We expect that the installation works for the new parking meters will be fully completed in the first half of 2022.
With the provision of more real-time parking vacancy information of public car parks and on-street metered parking spaces equipped with the new generation of parking meters through "HKeMobility", motorists will be able to locate vacant parking spaces more conveniently, thereby reducing the traffic generated by vehicles circulating on roads in search of parking spaces.
(4) Currently, the day-to-day management and operation of government car parks under TD, including the handling of abandoned vehicles, are discharged by outsourced contractors. TD has been deploying staff regularly to inspect each of its car parks one to two times per month to monitor the work of the operators, including manpower deployment, inspection of crucial facilities in the car parks, follow-up of repair items, collection of parking fees, handling of abandoned vehicles and the overall operation of the car parks, etc.. In response to the Audit Commission's recommendation, TD has requested the operators to submit monthly reports on their handling of abandoned vehicles starting from February 2019 with a view to enhancing the monitoring of the operators' arrangement in this respect. In addition, in order to speed up the process for handling abandoned vehicles, TD has enhanced the procedures whereby the operators can act in accordance with the "Conditions of Parking and Use" displayed at the car parks concerned. When an abandoned vehicle is found, the operator will send a letter to the address registered by the car owner concerned by registered mail, asking him/her to settle the parking fees payable and remove his/her vehicle from the space it has been occupying, so as to vacate the parking space for public use as soon as possible. As at end October 2019, there were no outstanding cases of abandoned vehicles in TD's multi-storey car parks.
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Annex
Numbers of Parking Spaces by Districts and by Vehicle Types in Hong Kong (as at August 2019)
Coaches and Private Goods public District Motorcycles Total(3) cars(1) vehicles(2) non-franchised buses Central and Western 1 408 38 469 1 162 84 41 123 Wan Chai 1 305 39 663 413 123 41 504 Eastern 2 416 46 456 1 885 334 51 091 Southern 1 862 39 292 1 196 347 42 697 Yau Tsim Mong 2 090 34 286 2 537 251 39 164 Sham Shui Po 1 985 29 180 3 167 435 34 767 Kowloon City 1 941 48 765 1 343 286 52 335 Wong Tai Sin 2 282 20 845 1 291 139 24 557 Kwun Tong 4 245 46 610 3 317 196 54 368 Tsuen Wan 1 475 37 004 1 986 425 40 890 Tuen Mun 1 714 41 326 2 524 182 45 746 Yuen Long 1 745 41 558 2 118 352 45 773 North 842 21 725 1 757 77 24 401 Tai Po 994 29 072 1 192 140 31 398 Sai Kung 2 986 41 333 1 579 328 46 226 Sha Tin 2 932 73 405 2 711 221 79 269 Kwai Tsing 2 702 35 917 11 056 294 49 969 Islands 620 16 682 796 242 18 340 Total 35 544 681 588 42 030 4 456 763 618
Notes:
1. Private car parking spaces can be used by private cars, taxis as well as van-type light goods vehicles, light goods vehicles and light buses with such sizes that can be accommodated within the private car parking spaces.
2. Excluding van-type light goods vehicles that can be parked at private car parking spaces.
3. The total numbers of parking spaces include the parking spaces for motorcycles, private cars, light goods vehicles, medium goods vehicles, heavy goods vehicles, coaches and public non-franchised buses. The parking spaces for taxis, franchised buses, public light buses, private light buses, special purpose vehicles and government vehicles are excluded from the calculation because most of them should be parked at depots, bus stops within public transport termini as well as stands. As regards taxis, they generally operate on the road round the clock and their parking demand is mainly short duration stay.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1611
URGENT QUESTION
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Urgent question.
With my permission, an urgent oral question will be asked by Mr IP Kin-yuen under Rule 24(4) of the Rules of Procedure.
Members may ask supplementary questions after Mr IP Kin-yuen has asked the urgent question and the Chief Secretary for Administration has answered it.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members who wish to ask supplementary questions please press the "Request to speak" button as early as possible, so that we can estimate when the urgent question will end.
Having regard to the situation, I will as far as possible allow Members to ask supplementary questions if they so wish. To allow more Members to ask questions, questions raised by Members should be as concise as possible. Members should not make arguments when asking questions.
Emergency measures to allay public resentment immediately
MR IP KIN-YUEN (in Cantonese): President, my question is very concise. The situation in Hong Kong has continued to deteriorate recently. Not only a student, who had been injured during the course of the Police's dispersal operation, died eventually, but resistance activities also occurred in a number of districts in the past five consecutive days since the 8th of this month, and such confrontations have a tendency to spread across the whole territory. Apart from the continued law enforcement actions to be taken by the Police, whether the Government has formulated any emergency measures to allay public resentment, so as to avoid further deterioration of the situation?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, my reply to Mr IP Kin-yuen's question is as follows.
1612 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
In the past few days, rioters unlawfully assembled in different locations in Hong Kong, and unscrupulously attacked police officers and members of the public holding opposite views. An innocent member of the public was set on fire and is still in critical condition. The SAR Government strongly condemns such extremely cruel acts.
In the meantime, the SAR Government expresses great sorrow and regret over the unfortunate death of a man who fell from a car park in Tseung Kwan O, and extends most sincere condolences to his family, friends and schoolmates. The Police have clearly pledged to conduct an in-depth investigation into the incident and submit to the Coroner a report with the recommendation of holding a death inquest for the Coroner's decision. If a death inquest is to be held in future, all investigation data will be disclosed in open court.
Recently, some radical netizens have initiated a general strike on three fronts (i.e. labour strike, business strike, and class boycott) and such protest actions as blocking roads, disturbing transportation services and vandalizing transport facilities, causing serious traffic disruption. Members of the public have been significantly affected in their daily activities of going out, going to work and going to school. Some masked rioters ignored the safety of others and threw bricks, wood planks, mattresses, bicycles, and even petrol bombs onto railway tracks. They set shopping malls on fire and threw bricks and different objects onto roads from atop so as to block the roads, causing injuries to passers-by and damages to vehicles in motion. The throwing of petrol bombs by rioters, which is an outrageous act, has become common. Many areas in Hong Kong have been affected by such unlawful activities of the masked rioters, and the situation has persisted this morning. Such unlawful acts are pre-meditated and planned.
Hong Kong is a city and society which respects the rule of law. The law applies to all places and nowhere is above the law. Whenever unlawful acts occur, the Police are duty-bound to take actions according to the statute. Most of the incidents in recent days took place on the campuses of tertiary institutions. We urge schools to focus on education. Also, violence should neither be condoned or encouraged nor rationalized in society as it will only breed more violence and undermine the rule of law, causing greater harm to society as a whole with detrimental outcomes. The violent acts that were carried out in recent days are sheer violence and nothing else, which cannot be covered up by lies. The seriousness, extensiveness and danger of such acts have substantially LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1613 crossed the line, which are unacceptable to any civilized society or reasonable person. Such violent acts have seriously affected the general public going to work, going to school or going out and infringed their freedom to lead a normal life, bringing serious threats to the entire Hong Kong and putting Hong Kong in an untenable position.
No one should blatantly violate the law even if they are discontented with the Government or the current state of social affairs with any set of beliefs, nor should they resort to or rationalize violence. We must make our best effort to stop violence immediately. The SAR Government is determined to stop violence and curb disorder, defend the rule of law, and restore social order promptly.
Destruction is easy but construction is not. Destruction and vandalism can be done in split seconds, but mending rifts and rebuilding mutual trust to allow Hong Kong to move forward again is not an easy task. As a responsible government, the SAR Government will not only stop violence and curb disorder, but also be tenacious in overcoming differences through dialogue. As Members all know, the Chief Executive announced on 4 September four actions to resolve the ongoing controversy as the starting point for society to move on. Apart from formally withdrawing the amendments to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance and the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Ordinance, the SAR Government is committed to fully supporting the study of the Independent Police Complaints Council ("IPCC"), and will closely follow up on the recommendations of IPCC's future reports. Furthermore, the Chief Executive and the political team will engage in in-depth dialogue with people of different political stances and backgrounds from different strata of society, so that we can gain a more thorough understanding of the deep-seated problems in society and find more pragmatic solutions. As I pointed out in my reply to the sixth oral question asked by Dr Priscilla LEUNG just now, the Government will invite community leaders, professionals and academics to independently examine and review the deep-seated problems in society and advise the Government on them. We are undertaking the preparatory work and will start work on the independent review panel on deep-seated conflicts as soon as practicable after the situation has stabilized somewhat.
The social incidents in recent months have brought serious impact to the local economy and livelihood. In this connection, since August this year, the Government has rolled out three rounds of helping measures costing over 1614 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
$20 billion in total for enterprises and members of the public. Some of the measures aim at reducing the operational costs (such as reduction or waiver of license fees or rents) and tax liabilities borne by small and medium enterprises, or providing assistance to them in terms of capital flow. The helping measures for members of the public include increasing the percentage of tax relief applicable to salaries tax for year of assessment 2018-2019, providing a one-off electricity charge subsidy to residential accounts, and introducing targeted relief measures for industries particularly affected.
President, the spread of violence is severely detrimental to the lives of every member of the public as well as our economy, daily operation and international image. Hong Kong can simply not afford long-term destruction and confrontation. We appeal for the support of the general public to treasure Hong Kong, defend the rule of law and social order, and denounce violence. The Government will take strict enforcement actions against all unlawful and violent acts. We are confident, determined and able to address the current challenges and will strive to mend social rifts. The Government will bring Hong Kong out of the woods by a "three-pronged" approach. Firstly, we must stop violence and curb disorder, ending violence as soon as possible. Secondly, we will proactively engage the public in dialogue and step up communications with the public. Thirdly, we are committed to tackling some long-standing, deep-seated conflicts and problems in society.
Today, President, I join three Secretaries, including the Secretary for Security, the Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development and the Secretary for Education in attending this meeting to respond to questions from the floor.
MR IP KIN-YUEN (in Cantonese): President, I believe the Chief Secretary failed to understand what I was asking in my question. My question is about how to allay public resentment. I wonder if the Chief Secretary thinks that public resentment is overwhelming now. But what can be done to allay public resentment? This is the crux of my question. Why did the Government not tender an apology and rectify its mistakes but only resort to the use of force? Worse still, the Police who abused their power attempted to quell public resentment with the use of force. Is this not tantamount to using kerosene to put off a fire? Our demand is that the Government should put forward solutions to the problems causing public resentment. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1615
President, I have this question. Over the past few days, the Police had forcibly trespassed on a number of university campuses and yesterday, they fiercely attacked The Chinese University of Hong Kong ("CUHK") and fired a large number of tear gas rounds. I have been given to understand that they might even enter other universities today. For the purpose of law enforcement, the Police were entirely in a position to employ more peaceful means and treat our students well with reasonable approaches, such as applying for a search warrant, but the Police chose to attack the university, treating the students as enemies. Under such circumstances, the students certainly had to defend their home and when the circumstances perpetrated conflicts, the objective outcome is that the university was turned into a battleground. President, last night, CUHK collected a total of ¼
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr IP, you have already spoken for a long time. Please come to your supplementary question direct.
MR IP KIN-YUEN (in Cantonese): Let me finish just a few lines before I come to my question. Last night, at CUHK, 2 356 shells in total of tear gas rounds were collected. Why should CUHK be treated in such a way? May I ask the Government whether it considers these approaches effective for allaying public resentment?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Which official will answer this supplementary question? Chief Secretary for Administration, please.
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I will first respond to the first part of the question and then I will defer to the Secretary for Security John LEE to further give a response.
First of all, I wish to reiterate again that it is the common wish of society as a whole to stop violence and curb disorder. This is indeed our first and foremost task. We must do this because without a stable environment, it is downright impossible for members of the public to go to work, nor can they go to school or travel. Their living will be affected seriously. Therefore, I believe Members have no objection to the fact that our priority task is to stop violence and curb disorder. 1616 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
We do not just rely on the strength of the Police who are, of course, enforcing the law at the front line, for this is their duty. But in terms of policy, if Members have paid attention to the Policy Address, they must know that we will implement a series of helping measures for the benefit of the people. These measures will embrace a new mindset in many areas, such as housing and land, transitional housing, and so on. This series of measures represents our new mindset at this very difficult time now. Despite our being criticized for not being bold enough, we have indeed taken a step forward, and a big stride indeed, so to speak. There were certain things we would not do in the past but we will do them now. An example is the rent allowance―we have not yet decided what it should be called―we will provide an allowance for the so-called "N have-nots" to help them tide over their difficulties for a year as the first step. These initiatives were entirely not options for our consideration in the past. Now we will take forward measures that we considered impossible in the past.
Members mentioned public resentment or public grievances which actually are many deep-seated problems among others, and they do not boil down to just one single problem. Moreover, as Members can see from the current situation, violence has escalated to an extent far beyond the situation at the time when opposition was first voiced to the legislative amendment. The cause has been distorted, and its nature changed. Back then in June, we first discussed the issues relating to the amendment bill as everyone was concerned about the amendment of the extradition law. But what has happened to date is a completely different matter. The fact before our eyes is that dozens of places are harassed and disturbed at the same time for one purpose only and that is, to destroy peace and social order. How can the Government not do anything about it?
First, we must deal with the present situation and restore stability but meanwhile, it is also necessary to make preparations in terms of policy by making adjustments to respond to public aspirations and public grievances. For instance, to address the wealth gap, we have substantially raised the Child Allowance by 40% under the Working Family Allowance Scheme. While it sounds to be not so much related to the conflicts in society, it is very important to the overall social atmosphere because in Hong Kong, many grass-roots people are living in poverty. So, basically I wish to tell Members that this is the overall, general situation, and we will conduct dialogues and effect communication. We are not hiding or evading the public, and a lot of in-depth dialogues are going on. This is what we have been doing continuously, and we are most sincere in listening to the views of different people and groups. Perhaps I will now defer to Secretary John LEE for a response.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1617
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, the situation described by the Honourable Member earlier does not reflect the facts. First, if no one breaks the law, it would be unnecessary for the Police to take enforcement actions. On that day, the rioters on various bridges had thrown objects onto the road or tunnel, which was very dangerous. If people under the bridges were hit by the objects or if people driving at a fast speed ran into a traffic accident caused by these obstructions, a multi-vehicle collision could be resulted in a more serious scenario, and human lives might be at stake.
That day, on the bridge of CUHK, the rioters, after occupying the bridge, threw different objects onto the Tolo Highway, and this might cause very serious traffic incidents. So, this is the first reason. Second, the Police must take actions in order to control this bridge and ensure that no one would continue to throw objects onto the highway which might otherwise jeopardize traffic safety underneath the bridge. The Police, having controlled the situation on the bridge, were attacked and in the course of the attacks, different objects, including bricks, were hurled at the Police. Therefore, the Police must take actions to ensure that first, the police officers were safe and second, the threats faced by the police officers could be removed. Members who watched the television that day must have seen that more than 200 petrol bombs were hurled at the police officers. Imagine: If 200 petrol bombs landed just beside you, would you not consider it dangerous? Hence, in such a dangerous situation, the Police had to guard this bridge for the sake of the public safety overall. They held fast to their posts and protected the lives of all the people, especially users of the road underneath the bridge.
I must stress that no place is not subject to the laws of Hong Kong. Universities and all the schools are no exception, and they are subject to the laws of Hong Kong. No place is above the law. Therefore, if someone has broken the law, it is the statutory duty of the Police to take actions in accordance with the law. Any person who attacks a police officer breaks the law and when someone has broken the law, we should explain to the people, telling them not to break the law. Any person who verbally rationalizes these violent acts is tantamount to advocating such acts and pushing other people down the abyss of law-breaking. Anyone throwing a petrol bomb can be charged with arson and may be liable to life imprisonment. Therefore, we …
(Mr James TO and several Members shouted aloud in their seats)
1618 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr James TO, I am warning you and other Members once again. If you or other Members continue to shout in the seats, I will ask you to leave the Chamber. Will Members please keep quiet because Members are very concerned about the contents of this urgent question. Although the Secretary's reply may not be agreeable to Members, Members all have a chance to ask questions.
(Mr James TO and other Members continued to shout aloud in their seats)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members please do not keep shouting aloud in the seats unless you do not wish to be here for the meeting. Members all have a chance to put questions to the Secretary but please press the "Request to Speak" button first and do not shout in the seats. Secretary, please continue with your speech.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, what I have just said was broadcast live on the television and the images speak for themselves. Members can make their own judgment on what really did happen. I very much hope that schools are not places where violence is bred. Therefore, if 200 petrol bombs could be thrown out from a place, Members should calmly give advice and voice condemnation and even help everyone to come to their senses. The use of violence cannot solve any problem, and anything done to condone and conceal this danger does not do any good to anyone.
MS CLAUDIA MO: They seriously could just spit out a load of crap. Yesterday, the Hong Kong Police practically invaded the campus of The Chinese University of Hong Kong. You started it, right? They collected a total of more than 2 300 cartridges today. The Hong Kong Police have become so gun-happy, so trigger-happy. You say the students were very violent, they would be throwing Molotov cocktails at the Police. But you started it. You stormed our Hong Kong university campus and you blamed our students for resisting, for fighting back. You started it, and you say the Police as a result would need to counter-attack …
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1619
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Claudia MO, please come to your supplementary question direct.
MS CLAUDIA MO: Yes, I am coming to my question and that is, we are talking about allaying public resentment, anger, frustration, desperation. Can this Hong Kong Government promise they would stop any more school campus invasion and stop police brutality?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Which public officer will answer this supplementary question? Secretary for Security, please reply.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I think I will answer that in English because I think that is intended for the overseas media. I think it is important to inform the overseas media the actual story …
(Ms Tanya CHAN indicated her wish to raise a point of order)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Tanya CHAN, what is your point of order?
(Ms Claudia MO stood up and spoke aloud)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Claudia MO, please sit down. I am now dealing with Ms Tanya CHAN's point of order. Ms Tanya CHAN, what is your point of order?
MS TANYA CHAN (in Cantonese): President, if my memory has not failed me and that I am not mistaken, the Secretary used the phrase "intended for international media" just now. That was what the Secretary said. Under Rule 41―I do not recall whether it is subrule (4) or (5)―of the Rules of Procedure, we should not impute any motive to Members. I heard that clearly just now.
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, did you impute any motive to Members?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I am happy to withdraw that statement, but I will make my answer "with the intention for the international media".
(Some Members spoke aloud in their seats)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I remind Members that if any Member shouts in his seat again, I will order him to leave the Chamber immediately. All Members hope to ask questions on the urgent question and hear the public officers' replies. While the public officers' replies may not be agreeable to all, will Members please keep quiet so that this question session may be conducted smoothly.
(Ms Claudia MO indicated her wish to raise a point)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Claudia MO, what is your point?
MS CLAUDIA MO: I do demand that official withdraw that statement properly.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you wish to give a response?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I said that I withdraw that statement, and I added that I wanted to answer this question so that the international media would get the right story.
First of all, there have been incidents in which bridges that overstand thoroughfares or highways were taken over by mobsters who had been throwing things down to the highways and thoroughfares, with a view to stopping the traffic. It is an extremely dangerous act because anybody driving on the highway or thoroughfare can face serious consequences of a traffic accident, killing lives, resulting in serious damage, and such acts cannot be tolerated. That is why the Police had to take actions to take control of the bridge, so as not to allow any further such unlawful act of throwing objects down onto the highway. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1621
Because the Police had to take actions to take control of the bridge, then of course they had to be in position. The unfortunate thing was that after they had taken control of the bridge, they were under attack, and they were under attack by all sorts of things, including people throwing bricks and different weapons at them, and over 200 petrol bombs were thrown at them. So all they could do was to ensure that, first of all, they maintained the position so as to ensure that public safety was maintained, and also they had to protect themselves. Thirdly, they had to control the situation. And of course, they had to use reasonable force, so as to prevent further escalation of the situation. It was under this situation that they had to use force.
It is important for us to know that any place in Hong Kong is governed by the laws of Hong Kong, is covered by the laws of Hong Kong. There is no safe haven, wherever you are, whether it is a university or a school. And people who so blatantly use violence to attack people should not be tolerated by anybody, not to mention people who work or do or go about their business in schools. It should be everybody's duty to condemn, to discourage and not to legitimize such violent acts. Schools should be a place for education. We should all work hard to restore this place to tranquillity, for people to go about their studies, but not violence.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms MO, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MS CLAUDIA MO: Will the Government promise they would stop such school campus invasion and all police brutality?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: I have answered that question, saying that if people stop doing unlawful acts, then there is no reason for the Police to take actions. The Police have the duty to take actions against unlawful acts …
(Ms Claudia MO talked aloud in her seat)
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PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Claudia MO, you have asked your supplementary question.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY: Any advocacy for unlawful activities should not happen. It should not happen anywhere. If people advocating violence are to be encouraged, then I think there is no future for Hong Kong and for people who are happy making such statements.
MR HO KAI-MING (in Cantonese): President, indeed, it is most correct for Mr IP Kin-yuen to ask an urgent question on allaying public resentment. Public resentment stems from the whole transport network in the New Territories East being paralysed today. Public resentment also stems from the bridge in CUHK, which is funded by the Hong Kong Government, being occupied, causing all drivers of vehicles running on the road under the bridge to panic and fear of driving past it. Subsequently, the road was completely closed. In the vicinity of that location, there is: one, no hostel, two, no classroom, and, three, no research facility, but only MTR tracks and roads. That was how CUHK paralysed transport in the entire New Territories East.
I wish to ask the Chief Secretary, or any public officer, about the daily interdepartmental gathering to which the Chief Secretary has referred. As regards the current situation, why has the Government not been seen to carry out focused and centralized handling? Can the Government set up an office for stopping violence so as to counteract such an urgent situation? The usual approach is absolutely ineffective. Taking the CUHK incident as an example, has the Education Bureau invoked The Chinese University of Hong Kong Ordinance to request the return of public funds from the Vice-Chancellor? Nowaways, many public intellectuals "get paychecks from Grandpa but hurt Grandpa's interests", and cause harm to people's life. In this regard, what exactly has the Government done? Or, the four public officers present only know how to sit back, not caring at all?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Which public officer will answer this supplementary question? Chief Secretary for Administration, please. As Mr HO Kai-ming has asked a number of questions, the Chief Secretary can choose to answer any one of them.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1623
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): Perhaps let me first answer the question on coordination among government departments in the first part, then I will defer to the Secretary for Education to answer the question about CUHK.
First, as I have clearly explained in my main reply just now, the overall operation of a government is like a football team, which is about teamwork but absolutely not each player doing solitary work on their own and only taking care of the work under his charge. We in the upper and lower echelons alike all work in unison and coordinate with each other. In response to the present crisis, in fact, we have effected mutual coordination, from bureaux to the departments and even the front line. As in the example I have just given, every time in the event of a road blockage, after the Police had taken actions and left the scene, a lot of rubbish and debris remained on the ground and traffic lights were totally damaged. What should be done then? In fact, personnel from various relevant departments immediately arrived at the scene and worked overnight to deal with the situation, thus enabling traffic to partially resume normal the next morning. The MTR Corporation Limited even used to work overnight to deal with the suspension of rail services. As Members can see, we hope the whole society will resume normal as soon as possible. There is no problem of coordination among government departments and Members need not worry. We will continue to strive for improvement and pursue betterment.
Next, I should defer to Secretary YEUNG to give a reply to Mr HO from the perspective of the Education Bureau.
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Cantonese): President, every year the Government makes grants to universities to conduct training of students and research work. The University Grants Committee ("UGC") has established procedures to request universities to account for their utilization of the resources provided by the Government and the results achieved. Of course, as regards the happenings in Hong Kong in recent days, the incident that occurred at CUHK last night, or the events that took place on the bridge, we all consider that such violent acts should not be committed and we condemn them. But is it directly related to the funding provided by the Government for the universities? We cannot hastily jump to such a conclusion. However, in terms of the utilization of resources, we will continue to monitor the universities to ensure that public funds are put to proper use.
1624 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HO Kai-ming, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR HO KAI-MING (in Cantonese): I am not talking about the utilization of resources. I am saying that, pursuant to The Chinese University of Hong Kong Ordinance enacted in 1963, the Vice-Chancellor is duty-bound to maintain order in CUHK. I asked the Secretary how the enforcement of the Ordinance can be ensured. President, I am not talking about the utilization of resources.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
(Ms Tanya CHAN indicated her wish to raise a point of order)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Tanya CHAN, what is your point of order?
MS TANYA CHAN (in Cantonese): President, I wish to seriously seek enlightenment from Mr HO Kai-ming. Is it possible to ask him to clarify what "getting paychecks from Grandpa" means? President, why am I asking such a question? Because just now he said some public officers "get paychecks from Grandpa". I only know that I get my paycheck from the Government, meaning taxpayers' money. Who is "Grandpa"? If "paychecks from Grandpa" refers to some other income, is he suggesting that such public officers accepted some advantages that they should not have accepted, which would affect their work? In this connection, I wish he can clarify the meaning of "getting paychecks from Grandpa". I am asking this question seriously, because I hope the Secretary …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms Tanya CHAN, it is now the urgent question session, not a debate among Members. Therefore, the making of a request for elucidation does not apply to this session. You may make such a request at another time. Secretary, regarding the part of Mr HO Kai-ming's supplementary question not answered, do you have anything to add?
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1625
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Cantonese): President, certainly, the heads of universities are all duty-bound to maintain law and order on their campuses, as well as providing a peaceful and reasonable environment for students and scholars to engage in studies and undertake research work without worries. Over the past period of time, I have maintained close communication with the heads of various universities and learnt that they have spent a lot of time and made a lot of efforts to help students cope with their emotions, so that they will understand they should adopt a peaceful and rational attitude to deal with some social problems. I believe they will continue to do so. Of course, the Education Bureau will continue to stay in contact with the heads and management of various universities, and provide support and services to them.
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): President, my question is very simple. Mr IP Kin-yuen's question is: Apart from law enforcement by the Police, does the Government have other measures to allay public resentment?
The Chief Secretary is the public officer of the highest rank here. May I ask him whether he knows the greatest root cause for public resentment in Hong Kong now? Over the past few months, some have said it could be the amendment to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance. But as the Secretary has stated, the Government has withdrawn the relevant bill. Then, what is the greatest root cause for public resentment in Hong Kong now? Is it the protesters' violence or rioters' violence, or the Police's abuses and violence, and indiscriminate prosecutions? Does he really know?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I thank Mr TO for asking the question. Hong Kong is a place that advocates freedom of speech and cultural pluralism. People's views are certainly not identical, so different people have different thoughts. But generally speaking, what is the root cause for public resentment? In my view, there are many root causes and, as I have said, some of them are deep-seated. The acrimony thus harboured was caused not by the incident, but has now erupted on the fuse ignited by it. Such public resentment has been buried in society for years. The root causes include the housing issue, the disparity between the rich and the poor, employment problems and upward mobility. Public resentment brewed up by a series of social justice issues could flare up at just one opportunity. Therefore, the root causes for public resentment are determined by circumstances.
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That said, we have also read in newspapers, and it is also common knowledge, that some people do have opinions about the law enforcement by the Police. However, as Secretary LEE has just said, the work of the Police is indeed very difficult. In the face of incidents involving law and order, the Police must respond to them. They are the law enforcement agents, so are they not going to do so? Hence, everyone is in a difficult position. Some members of the public blamed the Government for allowing the riots to continue and letting traffic be knocked into chaos. Why have the rioters not been brought to justice and arrested once and for all? For this reason, there are different root causes for resentment, which is also of various levels. Hugely complicated, it is also the very crux of the deep-seated conflicts in society.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr James TO, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): President, my question asked what the greatest root cause for public resentment is. He has pointed out many root causes, but I asked what the greatest root cause is. Could it be that he does not know?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Chief Secretary, do you have anything to add?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): We do not have any results of public opinion surveys on hand. Perhaps, the Honourable Member can convey some views to us.
MR LAM CHEUK-TING (in Cantonese): The Chief Secretary said just now that he did not have the results of public opinion surveys on hand and so he did not know the greatest root cause for public resentment. Such a statement alone evidently indicates that the SAR Government has lost all will to govern and does not even know the thoughts of citizens, then how can it stop violence and curb disorder? Now, public views are very clear. In a public opinion survey, close to half of the respondents gave negative scores to the Police Force. It is an issue of credibility at a catastrophic level.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1627
Chief Secretary, people have clearly seen the abuses and violence inflicted by the Police Force over the past few months. I wish to ask him, as Chief Secretary, if he can tell Hong Kong people clearly that the Government also considers the issue of abuses and violence by the Police Force not to be ignored. The existing mechanism of the Independent Police Complaints Council ("IPCC") and the Complaints Against Police Office fails to counter the abusive and violent acts of the Police Force which have caused a public outrage. Therefore, is it not necessary to set up an independent commission of inquiry to look clearly into the problems of the abusive and violent acts committed by the Police Force, and problems with the mechanism, so as to address the greatest root cause for public resentment?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I thank the Honourable Member for asking the supplementary question. I have already answered the relevant questions in my main reply.
Members ought to note that IPCC has been making efforts to this end. It is common knowledge that the work of IPCC is to monitor the Police's performance in dealing with large-scale public assemblies and maintain law and order, and monitor if the relevant procedures are defective. Therefore, will Members please give IPCC time and space to do its work so that the truth can be revealed. IPCC will submit a full report at the beginning of next year. It has indicated that the report will present specific facts for the SAR Government to follow up. IPCC is carrying out its work solemnly and seriously. Please give them time to do the job properly.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LAM Cheuk-ting, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR LAM CHEUK-TING (in Cantonese): He has not answered if the Government agrees that the abuses and violence by the Police Force now are the greatest cause for public resentment?
1628 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Chief Secretary, do you have anything to add?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, I will not comment on such individual views. As I said earlier, the most important point is that people should look at the facts objectively. As IPCC is already doing work in this respect, we must give them time and space. After the release of the report, we will carefully study the relevant recommendations and arguments, and decide on the next step. As I have also mentioned just now, the Government is about to set up a panel to review deep-seated conflicts in society. Its composition includes independent members of the community, academics and respected community leaders. They will explore altogether the various problems faced by Hong Kong for a long time, thereby seeking a way out. This is our approach.
MR VINCENT CHENG (in Cantonese): President, as regards the decease of Mr CHOW, a student, I believe many Hong Kong citizens are very upset and sad. The social unrest has persisted for five months. The acts committed by the radicals have recently gone out of control. They engaged in arson, caused damages, blocked roads and interfered with railway operation all over the territory, rendering many students unable to go to school and many people unable to go to work. Roads were covered with bricks and barricades and even metal nails, also causing road users to feel extremely unsafe. Social dissension has gone to such an extent. I believe everyone is very upset.
May I ask, in addition to the relief measures introduced earlier targeting at individual industries that have been affected, if the Government as a team can make better deployment to tackle the present chaos in society? For example, around the time students go to and get off from school today, road conditions were very chaotic and information was not readily available. Will the Government consider setting up an interdepartmental group to make relevant deployment so that people can feel safe going out and would not have to clear the bricks on roads on their own initiative?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Which public officer will answer this supplementary question? Chief Secretary for Administration, please.
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1629
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I will respond to the first part of the question, and then I will defer to the Secretary for Education to explain the new arrangement announced by the Education Bureau yesterday, which will come into effect tomorrow.
Whenever such incidents occur, government departments will effect internal coordination and we will monitor the situation all night. This morning, I noticed that in respect of traffic conditions, the Transport Department issued a series of notices in the first instance through the public media and electronic press, and so on, to inform all the people of Hong Kong of the services provided by different means of transport and the time of provision of such services, and updated all the information as soon as possible.
Second, messages are issued to urge employers to make flexible work arrangements and be understanding if employees cannot arrive at the workplace on time or cannot report for duty. We have issued these messages in advance to pre-empt labour disputes and arguments. A host of coordination effort has been implemented. Certainly, each issue can be handled in a better way and there is always room for improvement. Perhaps I will defer to the Secretary for Education to talk about the arrangements for today and tomorrow in the education sector.
SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Cantonese): President, Members also know that the traffic conditions today are somewhat chaotic, and certain public transport facilities, such as railways, cannot operate in a normal condition, particularly in the North East New Territories. Hence, we made an announcement this morning to remind parents of evaluating the situation near their homes and schools to decide whether it is suitable for their children to go to school.
We have been monitoring the situation. As Members may have noticed in particular, railway services as a whole have stopped. Moreover, obstacles of various numbers are found on many roads in the community and in the city. We have also learnt about these cases this morning. For instance, the windshields of some school buses parked on the road were sprayed black maliciously and they had to stop running. These situations will also endanger the safety of students on the buses and affect road safety.
1630 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
We have also noticed these activities. Some school principals have told us that their schools have received messages of intimidation claiming that their schools will be besieged if their classes continue. I trust that Members presents, irrespective of their political affiliation and political viewpoints, will definitely denounce and disapprove of these acts of intimidations targeting at schools.
In view of the consolidated understandings about different schools and having regard to the current situation in society, we announced this afternoon that classes will be suspended tomorrow. We will continue to monitor the latest developments tomorrow to decide the arrangement for the next several days. Here, I would like to call on Honourable Members, individuals in society and all the people not to target at schools. No matter schools have chosen to suspend classes or not, their decisions are made in consideration of the needs of the respective schools with a view to providing services to students as far as possible, ensuring that students may continue with their normal study in a safe environment. Hence, I hope they will not be disturbed. If they can go to school, why should we prevent students from attending school? Why should students be deprived of the right to learn? I hope Members will support this.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Vincent CHENG, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR VINCENT CHENG (in Cantonese): Chief Secretary, the arrangement this morning is extremely undesirable. Will the authorities take an extra step to have an interdepartmental or a senior-level task force to make announcements earlier? For instance, it may make the announcements tonight or tomorrow morning, telling the public in advance how they can go to work safely.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Chief Secretary, do you have anything to add?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): As I mentioned just now, in respect of traffic conditions and transportation, as well as commute, real time information is issued now. Mr CHENG, we will issue the information once we have it and will not wait. Given the advantage of electronic media making news reports round-the-clock and not merely in the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1631 morning, such information can be disseminated at any time. We will continue to identify potential room for improvement. No matter how, we will surely issue the information once we have received it.
As the Secretary for Education said, a number of announcements were made at around 7:00 am this morning. We will continue to do so. If feasible, we surely desire to issue the information as soon as possible in future, as this is most desirable and will spare the public the inconvenience of making alternative arrangements. Yet, as we said earlier, we will continue to examine the operation and if there is room for improvement, honestly, we will definitely do our job properly.
DR FERNANDO CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I think Members will agree that society is in considerable chaos now. Many venues and public places, including university campuses, shopping malls, MTR stations and public facilities, and so on, will suddenly become battlegrounds. It is common to see streets turned into battlegrounds, and it happens nearly every day.
The prevailing situation has continued for five months. In no place in the world would there be such a large number of citizens, young people, university students and even secondary school students risking their lives and safety in this manner. They are exposing themselves to great danger, risking wild hits by police batons, beanbag rounds, rubber bullets, sponge grenades and tear gas rounds. In no place will thousands to tens of thousands of people come out to protest in such circumstances …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHEUNG, please come to your supplementary question direct.
DR FERNANDO CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Mr IP Kin-yuen's question asked what emergency measures the Government has formulated in the face of the intense public resentment. My question is: Does the Government know the root of public resentment? Chief Secretary, please answer me, what are the causes of the intense public resentment prevailing today?
1632 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I thank Dr CHEUNG for his views. As I have pointed out clearly earlier, public resentment is a diversified and complicated problem, a rather complicated issue, and I will not repeat those points here. Yet, I would like to tell Members that the Government does not rely on stopping violence and curbing disorder alone. We adopt the three-pronged approach of dialogue, communication and contact with the public. Secretaries of Departments and Directors of Bureaux will take turns to visit districts to communicate in person with the grass roots and various strata in the community. Moreover, as I said earlier, the Government will study and review the deep-seated conflicts, and colleagues will take forward a series of measures with a view to addressing the current situation properly. But still, the priority task is to stop violence and curb disorder, for if the situation is volatile, other tasks can hardly be taken forward smoothly. Hence, we will continue to work hard in this respect. I hope Members will render us support and sever ties with violence.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHEUNG, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
DR FERNANDO CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Now, he does not even know the root of public resentment and is still talking about pluralism. I am not asking the Chief Secretary about the culture in Hong Kong. I am saying that nowadays whenever we go out, or even at home, we face the risk of exposure to TG (tear gas), yet the Government still does not know the root of public resentment. How can you stop violence and curb disorder then?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Chief Secretary, do you have anything to add?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): President, I have nothing to add. I already gave a clear response just now.
MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): President, with regard to the killings, arson, slashing of someone's neck, vigilantism, vandalism, blockings of roads, and people being forced to go on strike, the pseudo-democrats said that LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1633 they would ever stand together, come what may. But Members may note that in the "21 July" incident, they demanded that the police officers should arrive at the scene swiftly but now, when the "black-clad rioters" are everywhere, they do not wish to see the presence of police officers. Do they want the police officers to come or not? Sometimes we just cannot figure out what they want.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr KWOK, please come to your supplementary question direct.
MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): President, today, on behalf of the "black-clad rioters" the pseudo-democrats asked the Government how it is going to allay public resentment, and this is their position. But I wish to put a question to the Government on behalf of a group of ordinary citizens because they think that they are forced to go on strike as they are unable to commute to work or school. When the parents are stuck in a traffic jam on their way to work while their children do not have to go to school, who is there to look after their children for them? They have encountered a great deal of inconveniences and they can expect that they may not be able to keep their "rice bowls" as the conditions in Hong Kong keep worsening. They, therefore, very much wish to ask the Government this question. The Chief Secretary said just now that communication would be forged. With whom the Government will communicate? Will the Government communicate with the democrats, or will it communicate with the leaders of the "black-clad rioters"? What practical methods does the Government have―not determination; the Government has a great deal of determination but it has to be put into action―to quell the riots and stop violence and curb disorder as soon as possible, so that Hong Kong can return to a calm, peaceful society again?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I thank Mr KWOK for his question which reflects the public sentiments. Just this morning, for instance, there were really complaints everywhere from the people as members of the ordinary public were really unable to go to work and school. It was very inconvenient for them to travel as it took them hours to reach their destinations. None of us would wish to see this happen. This is why I think "stopping violence and curbing disorder" is not just a political slogan. It is really something we all dream of, something we hope to be able to achieve 1634 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 tomorrow. We hope society can return to peace tomorrow. Because Hong Kong cannot afford to be engrossed in divisions and contentions permanently. We cannot afford to have our energy drained incessantly.
Second, Mr KWOK asked just now what tasks the Government can undertake. In the course of communication, what we have done is neither window-dressing nor public relations work. We genuinely wish to listen with humility. This incident is a big lesson to us. We think that we really have to be humble in listening to views on administration. The views of people from different strata and backgrounds carry the same weight. Therefore, we have come down off our high horse, and in the course of communication, we have talked to people from different groups and different backgrounds. In this connection, we have conducted open dialogues, and in-depth ones, too. By in-depth dialogues, I mean closed-door meetings because some participants do not wish to have their identities revealed, and we must respect their privacy. These are very useful channels, including visits to the districts. I myself have visited the districts to listen to the views of grass-roots organizations. We went there not to put up a show. Really, we did not mean to put up any show. We really wanted to listen to views, to understand the public sentiments and to tap the public pulse, so that our policies can be more pertinent.
Therefore, in reply to the Member's question about what methods we have, first, we really hope that we can quell the riots, and when actions are taken to this end, or in situations like what happened yesterday when people stirred up troubles in as many as 30-odd locations at the same time, the Police would need to make responses and this could also lead to clashes. If these people did not cause disturbances in the communities, and if they did not block the roads, destroy the traffic lights, vandalize shops and set fire to shopping malls, why would the Police need to respond to them proactively? It is impossible for the Police not to make any response, for it is their duty to take actions upon receipt of reports. So, Members should understand that in a place where the rule of law prevails, we have to adopt measures that are in line with the rule of law but they still have to be appropriate, lawful and reasonable. I hope Members can realize the situation and address the problem pragmatically and objectively.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr KWOK, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
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MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): President, the Chief Secretary did not put forward any concrete measure from the beginning till the end of his reply. I am worried that his response may probably aggravate public resentment.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Chief Secretary, do you have anything to add?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): The Government has in place concrete measures. Simple enough, we have introduced, for instance―Secretary Edward YAU is in the Chamber―two rounds of measures to provide support to the small and medium enterprises ("SMEs"), and these initiatives will be taken forward on an ongoing basis. Further measures will be introduced where necessary, and we will not stop after completing the second round. We have already spent $20 billion on SMEs.
SMEs aside, in order to alleviate the difficulties faced by the people, we have rolled out some measures for the grass roots. For example, a learning grant of $2,500 will be provided for all 900 000 students in Hong Kong. We have been implementing these measures. Perhaps Members are forgetful or they are too occupied with work that these rounds of measures announced by the Government have escaped their attention as if nothing has happened. However, these measures introduced to provide relief and benefits to the people will gradually be brought into effect. Perhaps Secretary Edward YAU can later give an account of what we will do to provide relief to the economy and assist SMEs, in order to address the problem at root and provide timely relief to them during this difficult time. President, if you do not mind, perhaps I should defer to Secretary Edward YAU to say a few words in response.
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, Mr KWOK asked earlier how we will conduct consultation in various sectors in order to address the problem. I would like to say that I agree with the remarks made by the Chief Secretary for Administration and my colleagues. In this period of time, although not each and every department in the Government has played a part in coping with the violent clashes at the front line, we have, apart from supporting the work of the Police, carried out work respectively in our own positions.
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I recall that in this Council, Members from many different sectors have put forward their views to us. For example, in reply to the fourth question earlier on, I mentioned that under the current circumstances, the industrial and commercial sector as well as employment in society as a whole are actually hanging by a thread because our economic conditions are very bad indeed. This has also directly or indirectly taken toll on Hong Kong's international image and hence affected the business environment. In the meantime, I have to thank a number of Members who are in the Chamber now for discussing with me the problems in their respective sectors, including the labour unions, the tourism industry, the industrial and business sector, and various other sectors. Most of them wish that the Government can provide assistance in three aspects during this difficult time.
Firstly, in respect of liquidity, I have given a response in my reply to the fourth question. Some people hope that the Government can alleviate their operational burden in this period of time. In this connection, as mentioned by the Chief Secretary earlier, the Government has introduced helping measures at a cost of nearly $20 billion and where practicable, we will introduce measures targeting at specific industries. This aside, I believe every Member in the Chamber can also lend us a hand because in the three rounds of financial relief measures introduced between August and October, most of the measures will have to be passed by the Finance Committee. Last week, there were three measures under the purview of my policy bureau, two of which concern two funds for supporting SMEs whereas the other one concerns the 90% guarantee―some Members mentioned earlier the need to enhance the loan guarantee―which involves a commitment of $33 billion. All of these are still pending passage by the Legislative Council, after which the funds can be disbursed to the enterprises.
Having said that, during the last few days when I got in touch with various industries, I found that they are concerned not only about their own operational problems but also how Hong Kong is going to move on. If the situation described earlier by Members altogether persists, and if the clashes and even the attacks on different people in society continue, thus rendering the public affected in their living and also in commuting to work and to school, actually all the measures mentioned just now will be rendered futile.
MR JEFFREY LAM (in Cantonese): President, we can all see that the situation throughout Hong Kong is really becoming increasingly chaotic, with some rioters going as far as openly hurling petrol bombs, splashing petrol on someone holding LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1637 different political views and setting him on fire, damaging MTR stations, blocking roads, causing chaos during rush hours―not just a bit of confusion as the Secretary put it just now but great chaos―it is not possible for shops to operate but rents have to be paid. Even basic personal safety is under threat and the Police are also kept constantly on the run. If this goes on, how long can Hong Kong as a whole hold on? No one knows.
Now, the public feel gravely concerned and condemn these violent acts. Every day, the Government says publicly―the Chief Secretary for Administration and the Secretary also mentioned this just now―that it is necessary to stop the violence and curb the disorder. May I ask the Government what practical measures does it have to truly stop the violence and curb the disorder? I am referring to not the helping measures for SMEs cited by several government officials in their responses just now, although we are grateful to the Government for taking on board our views and implementing the relevant measures. What I refer to is how to stop rioters from throwing objects from footbridges onto roads, injuring people, damaging vehicles, blocking roads and setting fires after splashing petrol? The public hope that the Government can implement some measures to protect them and their properties.
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): Mr LAM has voiced the heartfelt wishes of the general public and what Members said just now are indeed issues of great concern to the public. Definitely, "stopping violence and curbing disorder" is not just a slogan but in the course of implementation, we must rely on measures founded on the rule of law, that is, we have to take resolute law enforcement actions. Law enforcement actions must be resolute, impartial and fair, and this is very important. Of course, law enforcement is not solely the charge of the Police. We all know the entire system, which starts with prosecution, then involves such departments as the Judiciary. For this reason, the Government as a whole is duty-bound to put efforts into this.
Therefore, as I said just now, the foremost task now is: In the event of some situations arising, for example, when some people are blocking roads, damaging public properties, attacking other people, and so on, thus creating problems of law and order, the Police in charge of law enforcement have to respond to them and they have to do so resolutely, impartially and fairly. For this reason, the law and the legal system are very important, that is, there is no alternative to legal proceedings and measures founded on the rule of law.
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However, the most important thing is we must all come out in support of the Government and say "No" to violence. We must stop the violence. We must stop the violence as it is not the answer and it does not give us a way out. I believe no one in the Chamber approves of violence. Which Member seated here would express support for violence? For this reason, the violence must stop before there is room for discussion and the social atmosphere in which all parties can sit down calmly and peacefully to have discussions can be created. In a calm environment, a lot of remedial efforts can start immediately, so the atmosphere is most crucial. First, it is necessary to return to peace and order. I hope Members will understand this. Stopping the violence and curbing the disorder depends on the rule of law and effective law enforcement. This is very important.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LAM, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR JEFFREY LAM (in Cantonese): President, I asked the Government what ways there are to stop the violence and curb the disorder but the Chief Secretary only replied that it is necessary to enforce the law resolutely and impartially. This being so, he did not answer me as to what ways there are to …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LAM, you have pointed out which part of your supplementary question not answered. Chief Secretary for Administration, do you have anything to add?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I said just now that our measures to stop the violence and curb the disorder were founded mainly on the rule of law, that is, measures permitted by the law and no matter what we say, it all boils down to enforcing the law strictly and impartially. Perhaps the Secretary for Security can supplement my reply in this regard as he is an expert in this area. Maybe Secretary LEE can talk about this.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): Thank you, Chief Secretary for Administration. President, I think efforts can be made in at least three areas. First, the Government must ensure that the Police can continue to enforce the law LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1639 strictly and impartially. In view of this, I believe the Government must take corresponding measures in policy formulation, resource allocation and work arrangements as far as possible to enhance the ability and effectiveness of the Police in law enforcement and strengthen the ability of the Police in intelligence collection and analysis.
Second, I believe it is necessary to enhance the equipment of the Police Force, so that they can enforce the law more easily and their law enforcement actions can be more effective. In addition, I agree with the Chief Secretary that it is necessary to have some authoritative judgments, particularly on incidents that we are concerned about. The Court must pass some authoritative judgments to let us know what is permitted by the law, how something should generally speaking be dealt with in the context of the rule of law. I believe authoritative judgments will serve as hugely useful guidance to the whole society.
Thirdly, actively increase the manpower of the Police Force. Recruitment for the Police Force also takes time and I have actively made efforts in various areas, including recruiting retired police officers in good health, with stamina and intent on continued service in the Police Force. We hope this kind of people can be hired immediately and the greater the number, the better. We are also proactively considering the arrangement of special constables under the Public Order Ordinance and are carefully examining how the detailed arrangements can be implemented. I think suitable officers in the disciplined services who have received similar training can join the efforts of stopping violence and curbing disorder.
MR JEREMY TAM (in Cantonese): Just now the Secretary kept saying that violence had to be stopped. I do not know if the violence he mentioned means the abuse of force by the Police. Secretary Kevin YEUNG has made a rather interesting remark just now. He said that schools and students should not be harassed, but this morning the Police Force under the Security Bureau harassed students and requested secondary students in school uniforms to stand aside and in line. I really do not know how the Government is going to stop violence and curb disorder.
Moreover, the Police have been using weapons of increasingly excessive force. The principle under which the Police use force is the so-called "One Plus One" theory of escalation. It means that if the other party is barehanded, batons 1640 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 or pepper sprays can be used; and only when the other party uses a knife that can a gun be used. Let us look at the incident that took place at Sai Wan Ho. The other party was not armed and with empty hands, but the police officer concerned captured him on his own initiative and pointed a gun at his chest. Yet the police officer did not shoot him, but another person standing close to him. The Police pleaded that someone tried to grab the gun. I will not talk about whether someone had made the move to grab the gun for the time being. I would like to first ask why the police officer concerned drew his gun in the first place. Does it comply with the "One Plus One" theory of escalation mentioned just now? The greatest problem with the Police Force right now is the arbitrary use of force not in compliance with guidelines. Secretary, can the Police Force indeed abuse weapons without limits to attack Hong Kong citizens?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, the supplementary question asked by the Member just now indicated that he does not quite understand the true considerations for the use of force. Second, the situation he mentioned is also not the totality of facts. I will not discuss individual cases, but I can point out the several principles governing the use of force by the Police Force. First, when using force, if the circumstances permit, warnings should be given to allow the other party to submit. If force needs not be used, it certainly will not be used. If there is no rioter breaking the law, there is no need for the Police to enforce the law. Therefore, the cause of the incident was that someone broke the law and someone used force, possibly violence. Therefore, we should address the cause of the incident―rioters using force and violence―and require them to refrain from using violence.
When a situation arises and necessitates the use of force to deal with it, the Police will use the appropriate level of force. Such an appropriate level means the method which can be employed at the moment to deal with the situation without entailing too much force. This is the principle. In each case, police officers will determine the level of force to be used according to the actual circumstances. It is not an armchair strategy or a theoretical discussion. Decisions must be made according to the situations on the spot.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr TAM, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
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MR JEREMY TAM (in Cantonese): Just now I asked the Secretary: Have the Police abused weapons? Does it mean that when someone jaywalks he can be shot? When someone breaks the law, he can be shot. Is it the case from now on? The crux of the entire incident is that they have been using disproportionate force.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, the force used by the Police must be proportionate. The situation depicted by the Member does not reflect the truth―indeed not reflecting the truth. For example, when handling a case in which a person is being burnt, the force to be used is definitely different
(Mr Jeremy TAM shouted in his seat)
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Jeremy TAM, please stop shouting in your seat.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): … and the level of force used to handle a petrol bomb being hurled is also different. Questioning some people about their identities does not necessarily warrant the use of force. Therefore, every situation is different. No generalization should be made and the actual circumstances must be taken into consideration. The determination of the level of force to be used is based on the violence faced by police officers at the moment.
MS TANYA CHAN (in Cantonese): President, I have been watching how the Secretary goes on and on with his soliloquy here. Just now the Secretary reminded us that the whole of Hong Kong is covered by the laws of Hong Kong. This is what he said when he answered Ms Claudia MO's question in English. Yet, the biggest problem now is that it appears that the Police are the law, and it seems that only the Police know what the rule of law is―so it has turned into the rule by man. As a result, Hong Kong has descended into a "police city" as 1642 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 people claim, because the Police do not have to bear any consequences for scolding the Judges; there are no consequences for scolding the Chief Secretary for Administration; no consequences for scolding Carrie LAM; no consequences for scolding the vice-chancellor of a university; no consequences even for ramming a motorcycle into a crowd―the officer in question is not suspended from duty, I must repeat specifically: he is not suspended from duty―and then there are no consequences for firing at someone's chest either. Do the Police call all the shots?
President, I now ask my supplementary question. I have now in my hand a map of The Chinese University of Hong Kong ("CUHK"), which is purchased through the Government's website. Whilst this map may be too small, I would like to remind Secretary John LEE that this Council held a special meeting on 29 August 2011 during which the then Commissioner of Police TSANG Wai-hung said, "The University of Hong Kong ("HKU") is certainly a private premises." A verbatim record was made of this meeting, so all of you are welcome to check it online. The meeting was held back then to discuss mainly matters relating to the invitation of LI Keqiang by HKU to attend its centenary celebration ceremony in 2011, and TSANG Wai-hung said on this occasion that "HKU is certainly a private premises."
I have this question for the Secretary. Was the then Commissioner of Police wrong or did you make a mistake of raiding CUHK yesterday?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): As Ms CHAN studied law, I believe she would also agree that everywhere in Hong Kong is regulated by the laws of Hong Kong, unless she does not agree with it. If someone breaks the law, the offender will be subject to the laws of Hong Kong irrespective of the place where the crime is committed. The laws of Hong Kong apply if someone sets fire, attacks other people with violence, thereby threatening the personal safety of others, no matter such acts are committed in a university, private premises or public place. And when the laws of Hong Kong apply, the Police must take law enforcement actions against the lawbreakers. This is the principle of "equality before the law".
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms CHAN, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
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MS TANYA CHAN (in Cantonese): My question is very clear, and I wonder where the Secretary was at that time? Buddy, the university did make coordination with various parties such as the Security Bureau and the Police. I am now asking the Secretary, did you make a mistake on that day?
The Secretary answered my question in a tongue-in-cheek manner as if he was Nat CHAN. Now my question is: Did they break the law on that day?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Ms CHAN, you have pointed out the part of your supplementary question not answered. Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, I take it seriously and solemnly when answering the questions raised by every Member. Perhaps the other party may not treat me with the same attitude, but I do take it very seriously.
We are talking about a serious legal issue. This is a very important message we must let everyone know: Every place in Hong Kong, regardless of its nature, is governed by the laws of Hong Kong. This is a very important message, as many people may break the law inadvertently if we fail to make everyone realize it. We are duty-bound to make members of the public know that they must bear the legal consequences for what they have done, otherwise we are pushing them down an abyss. We are duty-bound to tell members of the public that they may be sentenced to life imprisonment for some acts―arson can bring life imprisonment―we must tell the public about this. We only hope that everyone will face the law and agree with this rule. Anyone who breaks the law in Hong Kong must face the same rule and accept the judgment.
MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, a grave sentiment has been voiced in my sector. The business environment is very poor now with many shopping malls vandalized. Those shopping malls, restaurants and retail shops with more patrons are particularly the first to bear the brunt, and numerous shops were vandalized in the riots on many occasions. I wonder if they can receive any insurance compensation, but it is still an unknown whether the sum can make up for the losses even if they are compensated, and they also have to worry about a sharp increase in the insurance premium for the next year. 1644 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019
Pessimistic sentiments continue to spread among members of the public, rendering them wary of going out for spending. What is more, overseas tourists―especially Mainland visitors―are also reluctant to come to Hong Kong for travel, thereby causing business to plummet. This is extremely deplorable. Many restaurant operators have told me their fear for the foundation laid and savings accumulated in the past two decades all going down the drain.
May I know what contingency measures the authorities have in place to allay their anger or sense of helplessness, and will they consider following the Li Ka Shing Foundation to provide a one-off cash grant to the retail and catering industries, so as to meet their immediate and pressing needs? Besides, the sector also hopes to ask the Government through me whether it will consider waiving their electricity, gas and water charges, as these expenses account for about 5% of their turnover.
In addition, can the Government draw reference from the initiative implemented during the SARS period―the Secretary also mentioned it earlier―to launch a 100% loan guarantee scheme? It will enable shop operators to use this sum of money to pay employees' wages, especially as it is now at the end of the year. Meanwhile, both the customers and employees are anxious and worried as there have been cases in which Molotov cocktails were hurled at shops and rioters broke in when the customers were having meals. Nowadays―not only today―employees of the catering industry have to walk two to three hours to work, and then they have to walk two to three hours again to get home after work, prompting their families to be anxious and worried as well …
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHEUNG, you have asked your supplementary question. Please sit down and let a public officer reply. Which public officer will reply to this supplementary question? Secretary for Commerce and Economic Development, please.
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): I thank Mr Tommy CHEUNG for his supplementary question. I have already given a response in this respect in my reply to the fourth oral question earlier. I agree with what Mr Tommy CHEUNG said and believe that the problems we presently face actually cannot be resolved solely by providing some grants and subsidization measures. I reckon society would not accept it if LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 1645 the consequences of unlawful acts are made up barely in the form of compensation. Therefore, we have spent more than an hour discussing how to deal with the present situation, and it is also what the public are most concerned about.
Nevertheless, in view of the widespread occurrence of violent incidents throughout Hong Kong currently, how should we assist the various affected trades and industries? The three rounds of helping measures we launched in August, September and October are indeed implemented in the light of the three aspects I mentioned just now. These three aspects are also considered by the trades as the areas badly in need of assistance during our discussion with them.
Regarding the cash flow and liquidity problems, Mr Tommy CHEUNG mentioned 100% credit guarantee just now, and I have already given an answer in the context of the fourth oral question earlier. We plan to increase the percentage rate of loan guarantee from 80% to 90% and hope that we can roll out this scheme in collaboration with the banking sector as expeditiously as possible upon endorsement by the Legislative Council. Can we provide a loan guarantee at 100% actually? As we already said in the past, it might not be fully achieved, but such a view has been heard.
Furthermore, the Government will offer reduction of fees, such as rent and Government rent, or grant other subsidies to different trades and industries, especially the deeply affected ones. The three rounds of helping measures that I mentioned earlier have actually covered such trades as retail. We will also continue to listen to Members' comments to see what other new measures can be introduced.
Lastly, I believe all of us would anticipate that at this difficult time, Hong Kong society would have a heart seeking the restoration of harmony. In fact, we really need to calm down in face of the current situation. I am referring not merely to violence, but if the situation in Hong Kong persists in this way, it would be difficult for the Government, or any commercial activities, to carry on. I hope Honourable Members in the legislature would also address this issue with empathy.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHEUNG, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
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MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, the Secretary has largely answered it, but he has not answered whether the Government intends to grant subsidies for electricity, water and gas charges just now.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (in Cantonese): President, I recall that our early initiatives included subsidies for electricity charges, and so on. As for other measures aiming at reducing operating costs, the measures introduced in August, September and October have actually covered various aspects, and the Government would also like to set a good example. But no matter what, I believe the Financial Secretary will also take into account Members' views.
MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): President, despite the Government's pledge to stop violence and curb disorder, over the past few days, we have seen not only the inability of the Government to curb disorder but also escalating violent acts. The city seems to have plunged into a state of lawlessness or even anarchy. Members of the public cannot go to work or school with frequent suspensions of the MTR services and road blockage. Those who speak and act in a way different from that of the rioters will be attacked, and even their family members will be doxxed. The rioters have set fires in multiple locations and even hurled bricks and petrol bombs, causing serious damage to shops.
In fact, President, freedom of speech, freedom of movement, freedom of business and private property rights in Hong Kong are protected by the Basic Law. Hence, President, I have this question for the Government. Will it launch any emergency measures which can suppress such rioters later, so as to protect the human rights and freedom of those law-abiding citizens and traders in Hong Kong?
CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION (in Cantonese): I thank Mr TSE for his supplementary question and concern. Maybe let me say a few words first before I defer to the Secretary for Security for a supplementary response.
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As I stated in the opening remarks, over the past few days, we have actually been worrying about the bleak situation in which violence has rapidly grown in magnitude and intensity. Some 30 locations have seen the outbreak of the so-called guerrilla warfare, seriously affecting communities and arousing a widespread safety concern among the public about going out. Hence, regarding stopping violence and curbing disorder, as stated by Secretary John LEE just now, the Police have proceeded with stopping violence and curbing disorder by taking forward three initiatives, such as strengthening equipment.
Maybe let me ask Secretary LEE to speak further on it briefly. When he answered the question earlier, you might have also been in the Chamber and noticed the three points. But it would be good to ask him to go through them once more.
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): I think we should proactively take forward the three initiatives to assist our efforts at stopping violence and curbing disorder. Of these three initiatives, we should, first of all, ensure that the Police can enforce the law strictly. On policymaking and allocation of resources and equipment, we should strive to enable the Police to enhance capability and effectiveness. The Security Bureau and the entire Government will take forward efforts in this regard.
Second, we hope some authoritative court rulings will be handed down as soon as possible to send a clear message to society about the kind of acts not to be tolerated under the rule of law, and the corresponding punishment for certain unlawful acts in the normal setting of society. I believe these are crucial to stopping violence and curbing disorder.
Third, we will proactively enhance the manpower of the Police Force. On the enhancement of manpower, we will consider recruiting some retired police officers as far as practicable because we believe there are at least over 1 000 retired police officers who are physically and mentally fit for continued service in the Force. Many of them are also eagerly hoping to rejoin the Force and participate in the current task of stopping violence and curbing disorder. They are one of the sources of additional manpower.
Moreover, we will proactively review how we may, under the Public Order Ordinance, appoint Special Constables to participate in the task of stopping violence and curbing disorder. What I have in mind now is that some officers of 1648 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 November 2019 disciplined services have also received excellent anti-riot training. I have been proactively studying the details to see how we may implement such an initiative to allow them to take part in or support the Police Force's anti-riot efforts in this regard. We must tackle the issue from various angles, and I think it is also conducive to stopping violence and curbing disorder.
I also wish to add one more point, that is, we call for support from society to the work of the Government. Support from society is certainly most important for it serves to send a clear message to perpetrators of violence that such violent acts are not permitted in society, which will do no one any good and only result in destruction and harm without achieving their purpose. Overall, I believe it is enormously helpful to stopping violence and curbing disorder.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr TSE, which part of your supplementary question has not been answered?
MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): President, as I am talking about emergency measures, would the Secretary please clarify whether those measures mentioned just now are emergency measures?
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Secretary, do you have anything to add?
SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): I absolutely understand that we should proactively consider all measures as far as practicable. In terms of emergency, just now I have mentioned the appointment of those people willing to participate in the Police's work as Special Constables depending on the needs of the Commissioner of Police by invoking the Public Order Ordinance. In fact, it is a measure considered by us at times of emergency. If such a measure actually comes into effect, I expect to proactively consider how it may be maintained after the first phase.
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now suspend the meeting until 5:15 pm.
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4:46 pm
Meeting suspended.
5:15 pm
Council then resumed.
SUSPENSION OF MEETING
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I have discussed with Members during the break just now. Given that radical protests are now happening in multiple districts in Hong Kong with widespread disruption of traffic, for safety considerations, the meeting will not continue today.
I now adjourn the Council until 9:00 am tomorrow.
Suspended accordingly at 5:16 pm.