A Taste of Currie

order of the day. Compromise usually means someone giving way. And the balance of power was very much on the A Taste side of the big unions. Not the little unions, and not the little man. Again that's an example where Margaret has realised that reforming the trade un- of Currie ions was terrifically popular. She's said the state can't do every- Edwina Currie is one of the new breed of thing. The state shouldn't do every- thing. The state should do as little as Thatcherite Tories, and one of the most possible. If the central planning system controversial. Beatrix Campbell interviewed doesn't work then there is broadly only one other alternative which is the her for Marxism Today market system. And Margaret's breath- taking audacity was to say, 'let's see if the market works'. She plugged into the rise of a new body of theoretical work by people like Hayek. How far were you interested in it, how far do you feel that it describes you? Well, the theories were around for a long time. I've no idea what Margaret's own reading has been. What's yours been? Well, at university my economics read- Edwina Currie was born in Liverpool in 1946. Her father was a shopkeeper. She ing list was much the same as it had was a councillor in Birmingham from 1975-1986. In 1983 she was elected been in the 1930s. And I rebelled rather Conservative MP for South Derbyshire, and was recently appointed junior health against all that stuff, the trade cycle, minister. Joan Robinson and all that. I did try and read Keynes. I did not plough through As part of a generation of Tories around sionately about law and order. She puts the whole of the General Theory. I came 40, you've lived your life as an adult in the the victims first. She isn't that in- to the conclusion that his description of era of Thatcherism. terested, I suspect, in theories about the relationship between investment Not entirely. I grew up under the the criminal as victim. Neither are and demand and employment and the Macmillan regime. The first politician I most people in this country. use of resources, in other words the vividly remember is Kennedy. And I Margaret spoke so much more for the level of supply and demand, probably can remember being immensely moved aspirations of ordinary people, what was reasonably accurate. But it seemed by his inaugural speech: 'Ask not what Marxism Today would call working a bit slick to me. It wasn't until I got on your country can do for you, ask what class people. I don't believe in class war to books on economics written by you can do for your country.' I was 14 at at all. But it came like a breath of fresh Americans like Samuelson that it began the time and I thought 'Wow'. Macmil- air. And you could hear people all to make sense. Because there they lan also tried to develop new ways of around saying 'That's it. That's the first were talking about an economy that thinking, like the National Incomes time I've ever heard any politician say was strongly market orientated, where Commission and NEDO, some of which what I want.' Margaret was able, in the business was the main drive. That have been shown not to work, and some most successful way any politician has seemed to me the best way of doing of which are still in existence. And perhaps since Baldwin - I think he things. again I found myself thinking 'Great. probably had the same sort of talent - But what influenced me, wasn't so There are new ways. We don't have to to touch the popular soul. much reading - I'm not a theoretician, be run in the way we were in the 1930s. though I can pass exams - I'd much It is a new era.' I was most impressed Beyond the populist voice, where would rather tap into the culture of real with his style and obvious concern for you place yourself in relation to the radical people. One of the influential things for the way our people live. So those two Right, the ideology that's associated with me was going to America between were stronger influences at that time Thatcherism, and the things that come school and university. Everybody I met than Margaret, who had only just come together in Thatcherism? in America, or almost everybody, into politics herself. It's a populist voice first and foremost. believed with some passion - and many It derives its strength from Margaret of these people were from very ordin- Thatcherism represents a different mo- speaking to and for a very large ary backgrounds - that if they worked ment. number of people who have felt them- hard they could become wealthy. And Thatcherism is different, yes. selves to be voiceless before. look at all the people who have. How do you feel about that and where do It also represents a challenge to the Where do you think Thatcherism can go as you place yourself in it? postwar consensus. Do you share that a political project? Has it exhausted itself I think where Margaret made a differ- challenge? or has it a radical new energy? Do your ence was that instead of being imposed Yes I do. Probably particularly in the colleagues talk about it? on us from outside, instead of being a business world because she has been Yes we do. Insofar as we want to roll person who'd led a different sort of life, saying very strongly that business back the frontiers of the state, and we a gilded life, Margaret had come from must run itself. do, we want people to take more the most ordinary background anyone responsibility. I think what tends to could have, her father was a shopkeep- Haven't Tories always said that? happen is that the areas we have yet to er. And she had so much more in I don't think they've meant it. The first wade into are so obvious, like local common with us. She said the things, whiff of a strike in Macmillan's day, or government, that we tend to take a deep and she still does say the things, that Mr Heath's day, they'd have them all breath before the next step. ordinary working people believe and down to Downing Street, and try and feel and care about. She cares pas- resolve it. And compromise was the Health has been one of the areas where 20 MARXISM TODAY MARCH 1987 Thatcherism has been rolled back, it has now had to present itself as the defender of the National Health Service. The inauguration of a privatised health service has failed, hasn't it? The basis of Conservative thinking is rooted very deeply in what people want. And they want a National Health Service that deals with their needs properly, responsively, cost-effect- ively, in a caring and consumer orientated way. That's what they want, they've made it absolutely plain. I really do believe very strongly that Thatcherism is a working people's movement. It's a democratic movement. You've got a problem with local government, despite all the populist arguments against the 'loony Left'. In many areas of local government you've been annihilated, and if this goes on you could lose a generation of local councillors, who, like yourself, have found a route to power through local government. You were going to be the decentralising party and you've turned out to be the centralising government because you don't like what local government is doing. Local government elections, particularly in the major cities, tend to go the opposite way from the government, almost automatically. So I'm not that worried. But getting rid of the metropolitan authorities split the party. A lot of people who are loyal to local government and believe in it were very upset on your side. On the other hand look at somewhere like Wandsworth, against all those odds and against all that determinism... .. just about hung on. No, they hold it, they control it. They'll go on controlling it. And they believe in Wandsworth that they did it because they've managed the whole thing better. Whatever we run, we do it better. If we decide that something ought to be run by politicians or ought to be run by the state then we have a tremendous responsibility to make sure that the public money which has been voted to us is well spent. Let's just backtrack to the origins of the question, a third term, a new radical agenda, what next can Thatcherism do? There's a real revolution going on in the health service and the whole philoso- phy of general management is proving its worth more than, frankly, I ex- pected. Efficiency is one thing. But a Thatcherite agenda, a radical agenda.. That's part of the radicalism. Radical- ism says 'we don't have to run this thing in the sloppy old way it's been run before'. Sure. But I could agree with that. Well why didn't those people do it? So what about local government then? 21 MARXISM TODAY MARCH 1987 Well hopefully doing the same thing breast cancer. Are you going to? with local government. We're now asking the questions. I'll Have you changed your mind about give you another example - a qualified Are you going to take even more control screening? You said you were against midwife stays with us, the National over local government? universal screening.

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