43rd PARLIAMENT, 2nd SESSION Standing Committee on Natural Resources EVIDENCE NUMBER 011 PUBLIC PART ONLY - PARTIE PUBLIQUE SEULEMENT Friday, February 5, 2021 Chair: Mr. James Maloney 1 Standing Committee on Natural Resources Friday, February 5, 2021 ● (1310) That's the motion. [English] The Chair (Mr. James Maloney (Etobicoke—Lakeshore, Let me speak to the motion, if I may, Mr. Chair. Lib.)): I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 11 of the Standing Committee on Natural Resources. This meeting is on the forest industry. We've been through a lot in the energy industry over the last five years, and that includes the cancellation of several projects that Today we have two witnesses scheduled for the first hour and a were years in the mix. As you know, Mr. Chair, I've only been a half, and then at 2:30 we are going to suspend and go in camera to member of Parliament for a year and a half. In that year and a half, discuss some committee business, including the balance of this re‐ getting towards common sense about how we approach what's hap‐ port. pening in this industry and in the world has been what I think we need to bring to the table. Before we get into the introduction of the witnesses, which I will do in a second, I want to chat briefly about something that hap‐ pened at the end of the last meeting. We ran out of time when we The recent cancellation of Keystone XL is one in a long list of were going into committee business. I understand that Mr. McLean failures that have happened on our side of the border vis-à-vis con‐ wanted to present something at the time, which didn't happen. I structing infrastructure to get our product to market with our most subsequently spoke to Mr. McLean. important trading partner—and that partner, of course, is the United To the extent there was any confusion on Monday about process States of America. and how that happened, I will take responsibility, and I apologize. I understand that Mr. McLean is going to be the first person asking questions today, but to avoid cutting into his time, I would like to I know that the United States is the party that cancelled this offer him the floor right now for a few minutes to allow him to do pipeline, but it did seem very much like a shrug of the shoulders by what he was trying to do on Monday. this government. It was one more failed infrastructure investment that didn't occur and allow us to get our resource to market. That Mr. McLean, again, you have my apologies for the confusion on market we're getting to, of course, is the gulf coast. That gulf coast Monday. It was a misunderstanding on my part. I'm yielding the is essential as a home for the heavy oil produced in Alberta to get floor to you to allow you to do what you were going to do on Mon‐ the proper pricing. day. Mr. Greg McLean (Calgary Centre, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Infrastructure is constraining us from getting a world price for Chair. our resource at this point. That lack of infrastructure translates to I presume we're in a public meeting at this point. a $16-billion-a-year wealth transfer from Canada to the United States, and we should all be standing against that at this point. It The Chair: Yes, we are. matters to this economy, to the Canadian taxpayers, to our future Mr. Greg McLean: That's good. and to every one of these social services that we, as elected repre‐ sentatives, are trying to provide to our constituents. That's not hap‐ I'll read into the record the motion we put on the paper and dis‐ pening right now, and there is no real path forward. tributed to all the committee members: That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of the cancellation of the Keystone XL pipeline including (a) the loss of jobs and in‐ Every path forward we seem to take over the past five years has vestment across Canada in all sectors that supply the energy sector, (b) the im‐ pact the cancellation of this project will have on the economic recovery from been stymied. I agree that sometimes it's stymied by a foreign gov‐ COVID-19 of Canada’s energy sector/natural resource industry; that the com‐ ernment that we don't seem to be paying enough attention to as far mittee invite relevant witnesses, including representatives of industries and as getting them through the process is concerned, and sometimes workers affected, as well as, the Minister of Natural Resources; that the Minister it's stymied by our own government. We can look in reverse here appear for not less than two hours; that these meetings be televised; that six meetings be allocated for this study; and that following this study a report with over the last year at Keystone XL, which seemed to tick all the box‐ recommendations be presented to the House of Commons. es, just like Tech Frontier. 2 RNNR-11 February 5, 2021 These are all projects that are worth thousands of jobs to Canadi‐ Mr. Chair, are you going to recognize the point of order or do I ans, billions of dollars in tax revenue, environmental advances in still have the floor? the way we produce our energy in this country and indigenous par‐ ticipation in the economy in Canada. All of these things have to move forward together, yet every time one of these proponents The Chair: I was wondering if you were finished. I was going to brings one of these projects to the table and ticks all those boxes so let you go, but if you're not, then I'll acknowledge the point of or‐ that it looks like it's getting through the process, there's an interrup‐ der. tion at some point in time. Suddenly it does not proceed. This has to change. Mr. Greg McLean: I'm not finished. It's the outlook that has to change, more than anything else, and I humbly submit, Mr. Chair, after being in this job for a year and a half, I feel there does not seem to be an open mind in many of the The Chair: Okay. Mr. Sidhu, you had a point of order? members on the other side of the aisle. I appreciate that there are still some who are entertaining our need to move forward with re‐ Mr. Maninder Sidhu: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. source development in Canada. This is the natural resources com‐ mittee. We need to look at how we produce resources in this coun‐ try and how we take advantage of what we have in this country and I do know and I'm respectful of the matter, but I also know that contribute to the world's goals going forward. the witnesses have taken time to be here and many of us want to Some of those goals are energy goals and some of those goals are hear from the witnesses. It's very important that we hear their testi‐ environmental goals, and if you take a look at how much our indus‐ mony. I understand the sincerity and the sensitivity of the matter, try has progressed as far as meeting its environmental commitments but I also want to respect our witnesses. is concerned, it's astounding vis-à-vis every other industry in Canada, vis-à-vis every other hydrocarbon industry in the world. Mr. Greg McLean: Thank you, Mr. Sidhu, but this is the first We lead on so many of these measures. week we've been back in Parliament since Keystone XL was can‐ In debate in the House of Commons yesterday, the parliamentary celled and this is an important issue for the country, whether you secretary had an excellent speech on Line 5, which does appear to like it or not. The witnesses can wait while we go through this mat‐ be, again, in the mix as far as a cancellation is concerned. That can‐ ter, with all due respect. Please, let's continue. cellation is going to be disastrous, and not just for the oil flow. It's not just Canadian oil; there's also some U.S. oil that finds its way into that pipe. It is a big conduit of important oil moving towards I heard the parliamentary secretary in the House of Commons refining and manufacturing. [Technical difficulty—Editor] We get yesterday talking about this matter, Line 5 being one aspect, and he that raw resource to the markets, we manufacture it, we refine it in‐ actually said the opposition raised this issue irresponsibly, that this to finished products and we turn it into things like automobile prod‐ is something we as the opposition shouldn't deal with in the House ucts. of Commons. We raised this matter six times before the govern‐ ment even acknowledged that Line 5 was an issue that they had to We're building with the plastics that come out of the finished deal with. This is the job of opposition—to hold the government to product at the end of the day. It is a linchpin for our economy. To account on the issues that affect our country, the issues that affect lose that because a state governor is saying they don't like the envi‐ our constituents, yet again I see from the parliamentary secretary's ronmental effects of a pipeline under the lake...