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COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES HOUSE STATE GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE PUBLIC HEARING IRVIS OFFICE BUILDING ROOM G-50 HARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 2021 1:30 P.M. PRESENTATION ON ELECTION OVERSIGHT HEARING: ELECTION AUDITS BEFORE: HONORABLE PAUL SCHEMEL, HOUSE MAJORITY CHAIRMAN HONORABLE MARGO L. DAVIDSON, HOUSE MINORITY CHAIRWOMAN HONORABLE RUSS DIAMOND HONORABLE MATT DOWLING HONORABLE DAWN KEEFER HONORABLE ANDREW LEWIS HONORABLE RYAN MACKENZIE HONORABLE BRETT MILLER HONORABLE ERIC NELSON HONORABLE JASON ORTITAY HONORABLE CLINT OWLETT HONORABLE FRANK RYAN HONORABLE LOUIS SCHMITT HONORABLE CRAIG STAATS HONORABLE JEFF WHEELAND HONORABLE KRISTINE HOWARD HONORABLE MALCOLM KENYATTA HONORABLE MAUREEN MADDEN HONORABLE BENJAMIN SANCHEZ HONORABLE JARED SOLOMON HONORABLE JOE WEBSTER HONORABLE REGINA YOUNG 2 HOUSE COMMITTEE STAFF PRESENT: SHERRY EBERLY LEGISLATIVE ADMINISTRATION ASSISTANT MICHAELE TOTINO EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, STATE GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE MICHAEL HECKMANN RESEARCH ANALYST NICHOLAS HIMEBAUGH EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, STATE GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE * * * * * Pennsylvania House Of Representatives Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 3 INDEX TESTIFIERS * * * NAME PAGE TIM DEFOOR AUDITOR GENERAL, OFFICE OF THE AUDITOR GENERAL.......12 JANET CICCOCIOPPO DIRECTOR OF THE BUREAU OF PERFORMANCE AUDITS.........12 ANNE SKORIJA DIRECTOR OF THE BUREAU OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY AUDITS...............................................12 HOPE VERELST DEPUTY CHIEF CLERK, DIRECTOR OF ELECTIONS/VOTER REGISTRATION, SULLIVAN COUNTY........................46 THAD HALL ELECTIONS DIRECTOR, MERCER COUNTY....................49 JONATHAN MARKS DEPUTY SECRETARY FOR ELECTIONS AND COMMISSIONS.......88 LIZ HOWARD SENIOR COUNSEL, BRENNAN CENTER FOR JUSTICE'S DEMOCRACY PROGRAM.......88 SUBMITTED WRITTEN TESTIMONY * * * (See submitted written testimony and handouts online.) 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 * * * 3 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SCHEMEL: Very good. I think 4 we're ready to begin. 5 Good afternoon. Welcome to this public hearing 6 of the Pennsylvania House State Government Committee. 7 Today we will be hearing testimony concerning election 8 audits. I'm Representative Paul Schemel from Franklin 9 County. I'm pinch hitting for Chairman Seth Grove of the 10 majority chair. But I'm pleased to be here with the very 11 capable hands of co-chair Margo Davidson. 12 And Chairwoman, if I get off track, please just 13 give me a gentle kick under the desk. 14 This is the third hearing of 14, where this 15 committee will take a deep dive into the Pennsylvania 16 Election Law of 1937 and explore how elections are 17 administered in the Commonwealth. The underlying objective 18 of these hearings is to inform the public and this 19 committee, so we may facilitate election changes, which 20 ensure our voting process is designed to empower voters to 21 select winners, not the process selecting winners. 22 While the 2020 General Election has been 23 extensively debated and litigated, the General Assembly has 24 an important constitutional obligation to conduct 25 legislative oversight of the laws we pass and the agencies 5 1 which administer those laws. Specifically, House Rule 45 2 states, "Each standing committee or subcommittee of the 3 House shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the 4 execution by the administrative agencies concerning any 5 laws, the subject matter of which is within the 6 jurisdiction of such committee or subcommittee; and, for 7 that purpose, shall study all pertinent reports and data 8 submitted to the House by the agencies in the executive 9 branch of the government." 10 Today's hearing is focused on election audits. 11 In 2019, the Pennsylvania Office of Auditor General 12 executed a performance audit on the SURE system. The 13 Committee heard testimony concerning that audit at its 14 hearing two weeks ago. State law also requires counties to 15 conduct post-election audits, commonly referred to as two 16 percent audits. Pursuant to recently initiated pilot 17 programs, 63 out of Pennsylvania's 67 counties conducted 18 risk-limiting audits. We will hear testimony concerning 19 these audits today. 20 Post-election audits are an important tool used 21 to ensure voters have confidence in their election system, 22 and to guide counties in improving their processes. In 23 addition to being efficient, audits must be independent if 24 they are to be trusted to identify problems and improve 25 processes. 6 1 We have three panels for today's hearing. Panel 2 1 is the Office of the Auditor General, Panel 2 are county 3 officials and election officers, and Panel 3 is the 4 Department of State. These three panels will explore our 5 current program of election audits and help the general 6 public and the members of the State Government Committee to 7 better understand our current program of audits as well as 8 recommended changes being advanced by the Department of 9 State and the Governor's Office. 10 Chairwoman Davidson, do you have any opening 11 comments? 12 MINORITY CHAIRWOMAN DAVIDSON: Thank you. 13 First of all, I want to wish my colleague well, 14 Chairman Seth Grove, who according to published reports, is 15 suffering from COVID symptoms and is quarantining. And so 16 it just brings to light the fact that even during the 17 election we were dealing with a deadly pandemic that, as of 18 today's date, has killed over 400,000 Americans, many 19 Pennsylvanians -- tens of thousands of Pennsylvanians. And 20 so recognizing the deadly nature of the disease and its 21 contagious nature, we are certainly concerned for our 22 colleague, Chairman Grove, as well as the other members of 23 the General Assembly who may have been similarly exposed. 24 And so I want to commend the election officials 25 that we heard from last time, who should have further 7 1 instilled confidence in an already settled matter, which is 2 the 2020 election. I am certainly confident, as well as 3 the courts are confident, as well as the certification in 4 all 50 states including territories are confident. The 5 congress is confident, both the House and the state -- the 6 House and the Senate are all confident that the election 7 was fair and it was conducted in the way that it should've 8 been conducted, and the results are clear. 9 As we go through the process of learning just how 10 pervasive the big lie was regarding the 2020 election and 11 the insurrection that it caused at the Capitol, we in the 12 General Assembly continue to go down this same route. But 13 I'm sure today we'll hear further evidence of the fact that 14 the election was accurate, it was fair, it was free, it was 15 uniform, and the results are what the results are, 16 regardless of what side. There's always an election where 17 there's winners and there's losers, and the losers are 18 never happy about it. 19 So I thank you for this time, and I look forward 20 to the testimony. And I hope, at some point, folks will 21 move on past 2020. 22 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 23 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SCHEMEL: Thank you, 24 Chairwoman Davidson. 25 A few matters of housekeeping. We have members 8 1 and testifiers in attendance virtually as well as the 2 public viewing via live stream. Due to Sunshine Law 3 requirements, if either of these platforms experience 4 technical difficulties, we will pause the meeting in order 5 to correct the issues. 6 For the members participating virtually, please 7 mute your microphones. Please know, when you speak, we all 8 hear you. If you want to be recognized for comments, 9 please use the raise hand function. After being 10 recognized, but prior to speaking, please turn on your 11 camera and unmute your microphone. After you've completed 12 your question, please mute your microphone. 13 My goal is to allow as many members as possible 14 to ask questions this afternoon. So please limit your 15 questions to one person for a maximum of five minutes. 16 This should provide enough time for further rounds of 17 questions. 18 Also, this hearing is about the election audits. 19 Please keep your inquiries on other topics until all 20 members' questions have been asked concerning election 21 guidance. 22 We are holding 11 more hearings on specific 23 election topics. If you have a question which falls under 24 one of those hearings, please hold it for that specific 25 hearing. 9 1 We're going to do introduction of the members. 2 This is particularly important since we have individuals 3 who are in attendance virtually, as well as those who are 4 here. So for the benefit of those in the room, we will 5 begin with members in the room, and why don't I start to my 6 right? 7 REPRESENTATIVE WHEELAND: Thank you. 8 Representative Jeff Wheeland, 83rd District, Lycoming 9 County. 10 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SCHEMEL: Very good. And 11 then, up here with Representative Young? 12 REPRESENTATIVE YOUNG: Representative Young, 13 District 185, Philadelphia and Delaware Counties. 14 REPRESENTATIVE KENYATTA: Representative 15 Kenyatta, 181st District. 16 REPRESENTATIVE MILLER: Representative Brett 17 Miller, 41st District, Lancaster County. 18 REPRESENTATIVE STAATS: Craig Staats, 19 representing the 145th District in Bucks County. 20 REPRESENTATIVE KEEFER: Representative Dawn 21 Keefer, 92nd District, York and Cumberland Counties. 22 REPRESENTATIVE DIAMOND: Representative Russ 23 Diamond, 102nd District, Lebanon County. 24 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN: Representative Frank Ryan, 25 101st District, Lebanon County. 10 1 MAJORITY CHAIRMAN SCHEMEL: Thank you. And we 2 have members who are attending virtually. I don't know if 3 we have -- and please recall, those of you attending 4 virtually, that you need to mute your microphone. Those 5 members who are attending virtually, if you'd like to 6 unmute your microphone and introduce yourselves one at a 7 time.

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