Ansteorran College of Heralds Does Estrill Swet, Retiarius Pursuivant, Make Greetings
Here are the decisions about ILoI0009 made on December 9, 2000 (AS XXXV) at Stargate Yule Revel, as typed by Kathri (who has corrected the item headers where Bordure needed it, which explains why some of the comments seem to be about problems that don't exist.)
Griffon, Bordure (and deputy-Asterisk-for-the-day)
Unto the Ansteorran College of Heralds does Estrill Swet, Retiarius Pursuivant, make greetings.
For information on commentary submission formats or to receive a copy of the collated commentary, you can contact me at:
Deborah Sweet
824 E 8th, Stillwater, OK 74074
405/624-9344 (before 10pm)
Commenters for this issue:
Magnus von Lübeck - Raven's Fort. All items were checked against the on-line O&A.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan - Solveig Throndardottir, Name Construction in Mediaeval Japan, Free Trumpet Studies in Heraldry & Onomastics 87 (Albuquerque, NM: The Outlaw Press, 1994). Andrew W. Nelson, The Compact Nelson Japanese-English Character Dictionary, abridged by John H. Haig. (Rutland, Vermont: Charles E. Tuttle Company, 1999).
The documentation for a number of the name submissions in this ILoI is not presented in enough detail to be reviewed by the College of Arms without problems. It is not simply enough to (for example) state that a name is in Withycombe. Even "Withycombe, page (page #)" is not enough. Different editions of Withycombe have the headers on different pages. Even the 3rd edition hardback has entries on different pages than the 3rd edition paperback. Name documentation has to be summarized clearly and completely enough that:
1) a commenter can quickly and easily look up the reference and
2) it is clear why this reference supports the registration of the submitted name
In a number of the comments below, I refer to the Annals of Connacht. That source is: Mavis Cournane, Vibeke Dijkman, Ivonne Tummers, ed., "Annála Connacht" (WWW: CELT: Corpus of Electronic Texts: a project of University College, Cork, Ireland., 1997) [URL:http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G100011/]
Wilim Penbras ap Gurgeneu
Da’ud ibn Auda - al-Jamal Herald Francois la Flamme – Estencele Pursuivant. Used the online O&A. Names were not checked.
Northkeep - Commenters this month were Robert Fitzmorgan, Etienne de St. Amaranth, Rosamund Blaunchfleur, Anawyn Bardolphe, Yoshi Hakamori, Ren the Gimpy, Timothy of Northkeep, and Cunovinda ingen Coinnich. All items were checked for conflict against the on-line O&A. Items for which we had no comment, and no conflicts were found, have been omitted.
Bryn Gwlad - Present: Gwenllian ferch Maredudd, Mari nic Bryan, Andri de Chartres, Johann Kiefer Hayden, Daniel de Lincoln (y'r humble scribe and first-person comments). Unless noted, we checked all armory against the Ninth edition Ordinary and we found no conflicts.
Maridonna Benvenuti
1) Almaith ingen Chormaic (Trelac)
New Device. Name registered 6/99. Azure, a schnecke issuant from dexter base argent.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Device] The name was registered June 1999. The point where the schnecke enters the shield needs to be blazoned.
Francois la Flamme
[Device] Nice and clear; only 2 others registered.
Northkeep
[Device] No conflict found. This was checked both as field-only armory, and as if the schnecke were an ordinary. Nice, simple armory!
Bryn Gwlad
[Name] Name reg in this spelling 6/99 via Ansteorra.
[Device] 10/98 LoAR, Middle ret., cited in Jaelle bootleg prec. s.v. Field Division:
Briana Fallon. Device. Argent, a rose proper, a schnecke issuant from sinister azure.
This question was raised as to whether a schnecke was a charge or a field division. Just as you can have a field gyronny, while a gyron is a charge, you can have a field divided schneckenweise, or a schnecke as a charge. Therefore, this conflicts with Judith the Rose Argent, a damask rose slipped and leaved proper., with one CD for the addition of the schnecke. Note: while blazoned as a damask rose proper, it is in fact gules, and has been reblazoned as such on this month's letter of correction.
Schnecke is categorized in the Ordinary only under Field Division--Other, which therefore appears misleading. Since I have no idea what a "field divided schneckenweise" might look like, I don't know whether the instant submission would be field-only and therefore conflict with any blue-and-white field-only armory (e.g., Daniel de Lincoln), or whether it's a charge, in which case the only two schneckes registered as of 3/00 were: Melusine of Windhill Wood (1/91), "Purpure, a schnecke issuing from sinister chief ermine, in chief two mullets counterchanged." And Peter Schneck (1/97), "Sable, a schnecke issuant from dexter chief argent." So it would be clear. I certainly don't have a clue; if nobody else does either, it's a "send it to Laurel and ask" case. [Kathri believes that a "field divided schnechenweise" would look like a "per fess" division with the schnecke rising in the middle, and that therefore this device has a charge. Her faintly remembered source was Fox-Davies or one of Gwenllian's books on continental armory.]
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] The documentation here is incomplete. Need to add: Name registered 06/99 via Ansteorra.
1. COLLEGE ACTION:
Device: Forwarded to Laurel.
2) Arabella of the Plains (Wastelands)
Resubmitted name. Resubmitted device. Per bend wavy azure and vert between a bend wavy a mistral and a horse argent.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Arabella - Withycombe page 29-30 under Arabella gives the name as Scottish. It dates from 1255 "Magdalen Laver was held by Arabella wife of John de Montpyncon" and Arabella Stuart dated (1575-1615).
Plains - Reaney & Wilson, page 354 under Plain gives William de Planes from 1200 in Essex. Encarta World English Dictionary at http://dictionary.msn.com under Plains dates the word from the 13th century. This should clear up the problem that caused the return.
[Device] Blazon as "Per bend sinister wavy azure and vert, a bend sinister wavy between a mistral contourny and a horse passant contourny argent." The horse posture needs to be blazoned. The narrow bend sinister is still a problem that may cause a Laurel return.
Da’ud ibn Auda
[Device] Either the emblazon has been reversed, or the field division, bend, mistral, and horse are all "sinister", "to sinister", or "contourny". Because the bend completely covers the line of division of the field, there is not way to tell whether or not it is "per bend wavy"; I recommend dropping "wavy" from the description of the field division. Per bend sinister azure and vert, a bend sinister wavy between a mistral contourny and a horse passant contourny argent.
Francois la Flamme
[Device] Clear; add sinister to the blazon. Northkeep
[Name] Arabella is also found on p. 29 of Withycombe (3rd Ed.). Would like to see some documentation for the surname, but it should be acceptable based on commentary from the previous submission attempt (ILoI 1298).
[Device] Suggest drawing the bend a bit wider. Reblazon: "Per bend sinister wavy azure and vert, a bend sinister wavy between a mistral contourny and a horse passant contourny argent."
Bryn Gwlad
[Name] To be precise, the name and device were listed as pended in both 2/99 and 3/99 (AGs 3/99 and 4/99), and no final disposition was shown.
[Device] Did this device get reversed in scanning? [Nope.] 'Cause it's "Per bend sinister wavy azure and vert, a bend sinister wavy between a mistral contourny and a horse passant contourny argent".
Maridonna Benvenuti
[Name] Withycombe, s.n. Arabel(la)"…In 1255 Magdalen Laver was held by Arabella, wife of John de Montpyncon. The name occurs in the 13 C in the forms of Arable, Orable, Orabell. The Lady Arabella Stuart (1575-1615) was commonly called Arbell by her contemporaries…" R&W, s.n. "Plain, playne, plane: William de Planes, 1200; Roger Playne, 1293; Robert Playn, 1383. From Plasnes ." Hey, I won't quibble where it comes from.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] Arabella: Withycombe (3rd ed., p. 29 under Arabel(la)) dates "Arabella" to 1255 and "Lady Arabella Stuart" to "1575-1615". of the Plains: The documentation in the ILoI is, "Locative by name. No other information provided." This is not enough information to send the submission on to Laurel. Reaney & Wilson (354 under Plain) dates
2. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel with agreement to drop "the" if necessary to register the name.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel reblazoned as "Per bend sinister azure and vert, a bend sinister wavy between a mistral contourny and a horse passant contourny argent" with a note that submitter will be advised to draw the bend wider and the waves deeper.
3) Cunovinda ingen Coinnich (Northkeep)
New name. Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] The last name is a form you might still see in 13th century Gaelic. It would be difficult to translate Cunovinda from the 4th century to the 13th. If the name survived at all, I am not sure whether it would be in Gaelic or Welsh or how the spelling would change. If there is any concern about temporal problems with the name, earlier forms would be ingen Cainnech or inigena Cainnech (from Tangwystyl's article).
Cunovinda - This is from "Some British Names in Roman Inscriptions" in The First Thousand Years of British Names by Tangwystyl www.panix.com/~mittle/names/tangwystyl/british1000. It is a Briton name from the 4th century or earlier from Roman records. The article also gives the spelling Cuniovenda.
ingen Coinnich - The name needs to be lenited Choinnich. OCorráin & Maguire page 43 under Cainnech (also Coinneach) gives it as a male name St. Cainnech of Aghaboe and a female name from 979. Black, Surnames of Scotland, page 525 under Mackenzie gives MacCoinnich as son of Coinneach, Cainnechus from Adamnan (writing in the 600s), and early Irish form as Cainnigh. Morgan, Scottish Gaelic Names for Children under Coinneach gives Coinneach mac Ailpein died 858 and St. Cainneach from 599. Woulfe, Irish Names and Surnames page 334 under Coinnig gives the Scottish Gaelic form as Mac Coinnich but this may be modern.
Northkeep
[Name] Pictish/Gaelic combination appears plausible for early period.
Maridonna Benvenuti
[Name] The First Thousand Years of British Names at the Academy of St. Gabriel site Appendix II - Some British Names in Roman Inscriptions by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn. C[uno]vinda (f) to the year 400 A.D. I must have overlooked the name at the site the submitter used. I found info on ingen Coinnich in Academy report 1804 "…A woman… would not use the byname
3. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel with surname changed to Choinnich.
4) Dunstan aet Petrokes Stowe (Loch Ruadh)
New name. New device. Gules, two chevrons inverted and in chief a cross patee, between two lions rampant regardant argent.
Magnus von Lübeck [Name] Dunstan - Withycombe page 91 under Dunstan gives it as Old English and mentions Dunstan son of Heorstan 924-988. Dunstan is mentioned in the Anglo-Saxon chronicle born 924. Searle, Onomasticon Anglo-Saxonicum, page 173 lists Dunstan from 940. I don't know what the a.e. stands for unless it is meant to be æt.
Petrokes Stowe - Ekwall, Dictionary of English Place Names, page 356 under Padstow gives Sancte Petroces stow from 981 and Petrokestowe 1297 as St. Petroc's church. Under Petrockstow page 364 gives Petrochestov from the Domesday Book. Tengvik, G. Old English Bynames. Uppsala, 1938, page 32 gives examples of locatives æt Brandan stane from 970 and æt Heorsttune from 933. I don't have any references that place this in the 9th century. Dunstan æt Sancte Petroces stow should be a 10th century form and Dunstan of Petrokestowe slightly later. Thanks to Cyneric for putting me on to this.
[Device] This can be blazoned: "Gules, two chevronels inverted and in chief a cross formy between two lions rampant regardant argent."
Da’ud ibn Auda
[Device] "I have decided to abandon the use of the term cross paty in favor of the less ambiguous cross formy.... [P]aty defines an entire family of crosses, not just a specific variety. (Baldwin of Erebor, Cover letter of 25 Aug 86, pp. 1-2)
Francois la Flamme
[Device] Appears clear.
Northkeep
[Name] Should "a.e." be "aet?" [We think so. Bordure will double-check the forms.] A. D. Mills, Oxford Dictionary of English Place-Names (Oxford: O.U.P, 1998), gives "Petrochestou" dated to 1086, on p. 271 under "Petrockstow," as well as "Sancte Petroces stow" dated to 11th C. on p. 266 under "Padstow."
[Device] No conflict found. The chevrons are awfully thin; we suggest reblazoning as chevronnels. The angle of the chevron(nel)s is rather obtuse, as well. We also found the lions to be indistinguishable from a distance, due to their small size.
Bryn Gwlad
[Device] "Gules, two chevronels inverted, in chief a cross formy between two lions combattant argent". We don't do "patty" in the SCA; it's an ambiguous term. Gwenllian says the chevronels are way too flat. The lions should be larger (similar in visual weight to the cross).
Maridonna Benvenuti
[Name] Withycombe lists Dunstan with the spellings: Dunstan, Donestan, Dunestan, DB 1086; Dunstan, 1273; Donestan, 1379; Donston, 1529. Ekwall gives the earliest spelling of Sancte Petroces stow in 981. Petrokestowe, 1297; Padristowe, 1351; Padestou, 1361.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] Dunstan: The title for Searle needs to be fixed. Withycombe (p. 91 under Dunstan) dates
4. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel reblazoned as Gules, two chevronels inverted, in chief a cross formy between two lions combattant argent"
5) Fionngan Dubh (Namron)
New name. New device. Argent, a sheaf of holly leaves fructal proper issuant from a chalice vert within a bordure sable.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Fionnagán Dubh looks fine for after 1200. St. Gabriel's #1484 recommended Finnechán Dub or Findacán Dub for the period before 1200 that the submitter is interested in.
Fionngan - The name is spelled Fionnagán or Finnacán in OCorráin & Maguire and given as a diminutive of Finn. Woulfe, Irish Names & Surnames, page 528 under Fionnagáin gives Fionnagán as a diminutive of Fionn and at the end of the 16th century here were O Finegans in all of the provinces. St. Gabriel's Report 1484 lists on 1 occurrence of Fionnagán before 1600 in M. A. O'Brien (ed.), Corpus Genealogiarum Hiberniae (Dublin: The Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies, 1976). Genealogies from Rawlinson compiled by Donnchadh O Corráin www.ucc.ie/celt/online/G105003/ from the book above page 115 #604 gives Finnacáin.
Dubh - Morgan, Scottish Gaelic Names For Children under Dubh gives it as the name of a Scot- Pictish king killed in 967 and meaning black in Gaelic. Black, Surnames of Scotland, page 225 under Duff gives the Gaelic Dubh from the older Dub. The family Duff is merely the adjective dubh used epithetically and Duncan Duff from 1275 is mentioned. Woulfe, Irish Names and Surnames, page 284 under Dubh as black: a descriptive epithet which supplanted the real surname which is now lost. From NOVEMBER 1995 LoAR Ciarán Dubh O Tuathail. "We have corrected the grammar to reflect his apparent intention to have the byname `[the] Black' refer to himself".
Da’ud ibn Auda
[Device] A "sheaf" of three charges are crossed in the center; the leaves here are merely "conjoined in base". Yes, it's a longer blazon. (This is an indication that the style is less than optimal.) Argent, three holly leaves conjoined in base vert fructed proper issuant from ....
Francois la Flamme
[Device] Clear of Owen Revelstorm 3/86 (West), Argent, a tankard gules within a bordure invected sable. Northkeep
[Device] Correct blazon to "fructed" in place of "fructal." Nice, distinctive design.
Bryn Gwlad
[Device] "Fructed"!
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] Fionngan: No support for the spelling
Dubh: For "Dubh", the ILoI states "Irish descriptive byname means "dark, black" Irish Names pg. 77-79 and 64". No indication is given as to why these pages are relevant to this name submission. In fact, Ó Corráin & Maguire pp. 77-79 lists a number of Gaelic given names that include
The Annals of Connacht (entry 1260.12) lists
Given this information, the appropriate spelling for the submitter’s desired time period (9th to 11th C) would seem to be
5. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel with given spelled Fionnagan.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel reblazoned as Argent, three holly leaves conjoined in base vert fructed gules issuant from a chalice vert within a bordure sable.
6) Geanne M’Kiernan (Raven’s Fort)
New name.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Withycombe page 174 under Jean gives Jennet as a diminutive. This adds some support for the J and G being interchanged. M'Kiernane from Woulfe is Anglicized Gaelic.
Northkeep
[Name] Unless stronger documentation for this spelling of forename is provided, suggest changing to "Jeanne." Surname looks fine. Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] Typos in documentation in ILoI: Geanne: Black (p. 732 under SLEIGH) dates
6. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel with given as Jeanne with a note that the submitter prefers it spelled with a G if documentation can be found.
7) Gwenafwy Sinclaire (Gates Edge)
New badge. Name registered 9/93. Azure, a seahorse and a base rayonny argent.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Badge] The name was registered September 1993.
Francois la Flamme
[Badge] Consider Anastasia of Tor Brant 4/92 (Middle), Azure, in fess a sea-unicorn argent scaly sable and a unicorn rampant contourny vairy ancient argent and sable. [One CD for change/removal of half of the primary charge group, 1 CD for addition of base.]
Northkeep
[Badge] Suggest drawing seahorse larger to fit space.
Bryn Gwlad
[Name] Name reg. in this spelling 9/93 via Anst.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] The documentation here is incomplete. Need to add: Name registered 09/93 via Ansteorra.
7. COLLEGE ACTION:
Badge: Forwarded to Laurel with a note that the submitter has been advised to draw the seahorse larger.
8) Ihone MacEogan (Westgate) New name. New device. Azure a bend sinister fusilly argent.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Possible conflict with Eoin mac Eoghain September 1985. They both mean John, son of Eogan. They sound identical but are spelled differently. This needs a ruling by Laurel. This is what Laurel has said about the names in the past:
"Eoin and Ian are significantly different in sound as well as appearance." (Talan Gwynek, LoAR April 1996). April 2000 LoAR Ewan of Balquhidder. "Submitted as Ewan MacLaren of Balquhidder. Since dropping Balquhidder would result in a conflict with the already registered name of Eoin MacLaren, we have dropped MacLaren instead." Meaning Ewan and Eoin conflict.
St. Gabriel's word on the matter: Concerning the Names Iain, Ian, and Eoin from St. Gabriel's Academy Problem Names Project www.medievalscotland.org/problem/names/iain.shtml
"The Scots clearly recognized the relationship between Eoin and its Latin root: Throughout the late Middle Ages it regularly appears in Latin and Scots records of Gaelic names as Johannes, Johnne, Jhone, etc. [9] For example:
Gilleheshoc filius Johannis de Clechenes c.1200 [8, Gilmakessoc], Johannes M'Eogan 1355 [8, MacEwan], Malcolm Jonis 1427 [8, Johnson], Jhone Gilrowth 1546 [8, Gilruth], Johne Dow M'Gillevernan 1563 [8, MacFillevernan], Johnne Monech 1596 [8, MacGillewie], Jhone Murdowsone Makcandie 1600 [8, Macandie], Ihone dow Mcalaster 1614 [8, Macalaster]
[8] Black, George F., The Surnames of Scotland
[9] Black also lists several examples of John as early as the 14th century. The early examples are English translations of Latin documents. Some of the 16th century examples may be accurate, but they may also be modernized spellings; with the sources at our disposal, we cannot tell."
And the article used to document the name: 13th & 14th Century Scottish Names by Symon Freser of Lovat www.s-gabriel.org/names/symonFreser/scottish14/
Name: Ihon, Ihone, Iohn, Iohne Modern: Ian, John
Francois la Flamme
[Device] Looks good.
Northkeep
[Device] No conflict found, as far as Etienne was willing and able to check. Simple!
Post-decision commentary from Magnus:
[Name] Bannockburn is a heading in Place-Names of Scotland by James B. Johnston (Edinburgh: David Douglas 1892) on page 28, which has "Bannockburn (Stirling) sic 1314; 1494, Bannockysborne. Gaelic ban cnoc (also Irish cnoc) 'white hill'; same as Banknock, The Haggs, not far off." 8. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel with note of possible conflict with Eoin mac Eoghain (9/85) and authorization from the submitter to add "of Bannockburn" if necessary to register the name.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel.
9) Ikijima Katsutoshi (Northkeep)
Resubmitted name. Resubmitted Device. Gules, in fess a decrescent and a bat displayed Or.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] This looks like a resubmission of Katsutoshi. (Northkeep) Name and device. ILoI 1/96 9. Kingdom returned 3/96. My Japanese name book hasn't arrived yet.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[My apologies if some of this commentary does not address the documentation summarized in the ILoI; I am writing this based on a forwarded summary of the submission in the ILoI as I have not yet been able to get my hands on a copy of ILoI 09/2000.]
[Name] The submitter has the basic structure of the name correct: family name + nanori. So
Katsutoshi: 'Katsutoshi' is a masculine Nanori whose Kanji is dated to 1568 in Solveig (p. 335). This portion of the name is good to go.
Ikijima: Unlike Western languages that are usually discussed in these comments on ILoIs, Japanese is a pictographically-based language rather than a phonetically-based language.
Kanji characters are modified pictograms representing the item they refer to. Hiragana and Katakana (collectively referred to as Kana) character sets are used to phonetically represent Kanji characters. The fourth character set is the one we are concerned with: Romanji. Romanji is a standardized method of representing Kanji & Kana using Roman characters. So the order is: idea -> Kanji -> Kana -> Romanji. This affects us in the following way: if the proposed Kanji combination does not make sense in Kanji, then it won't appear in Kanji. And so won't appear in Kana or Romanji. Which can bring you up against that phrase we often see in LoARs, "Returned for lack of documentation of ....".
Now, to further complicate things, in the step Kanji -> Kana, the Kana form may vary depending upon some rather obscure rules. For example, the Kanji character for island, when following another Kanji, is normally pronounced <-shima>, occasionally <-jima>. And that's with no stress on any of the syllables. For example,
Solveig (p. 133) lists the character KI (for Divide/Fork/Split/Branch) and says of this Kanji that "the emphasis is not upon the slope of the mountains cutting down to where they meet, but upon the cleavage of a mountain in twain."
Since 'Iki' is therefore already a counter (one) and a solid idea/main focus (a divided mountain), adding island to it would not seem to fit Kanji structure. The names that Solveig lists under Island (pp. 144-145) do not include any parallel examples to the submitted Ikijima. As such, if we cannot find other support for Ikijima as a Japanese family name / surname, I am afraid that this name will need to be returned.
Da’ud ibn Auda
[Device] This submission is very badly balanced for either European or Japanese style. RfS VIII.1.b. requires that "Armory must arrange all elements coherently in a balanced design."
Francois la Flamme
[Device] I don't care for the style, but the sea bat appears clear.
Northkeep
[Name] We defer to those with more knowledge of Japanese and better references.
[Device] Not standard heraldic style, but should be registrable.
Bryn Gwlad
[Name] This was said to be "resubmitted", but no history was given. I presume that this is "Katsutoshi", from Northkeep, item 9 on the ILOI 1/96, returned 3/96 (AG 4/96). That name was returned for not having at least two elements, as required by the RfS. That device was returned for being unrecognizable, as well as being unblazonable in Western European terms.
9. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Returned for lack of documentation of the consturction of "Ikijimi" given that it seems unlikely from the resources available to the CoH. (Magnus got his book on Japenese names, but we couldn't document it there, either.)
Device: Returned for lack of an acceptable name.
10) Joanna of the Plains (Wastelands) Resubmitted name. Resubmitted device. Sable four horseshoes sinister two and two Or.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Joanna - Withycombe page 177 under Joan gives Johanna from 1189, 1220, 1379 and under Joanna gives its use after the Reformation. Plains - Reaney & Wilson, page 354 under Plain gives William de Planes from 1200 in Essex. Encarta World English Dictionary at http://dictionary.msn.com under Plains dates the word from the 13th century. This should clear up the problem that caused the return.
[Device] Blazon as "Sable, four horseshoes base to sinister two and two Or."
Da’ud ibn Auda
[Device] The horseshoes appear to be fesswise reversed. (The default is for them to have their openings to base. Pictorial Dictionary, 2nd ed., #396)
Francois la Flamme
[Device] No conflicts found; even checked against crescents.
Northkeep
[Device] Horseshoes have their opening to base by default. Reblazon: "Sable, four horseshoes, openings to dexter, two and two Or." No conflict found.
Bryn Gwlad
[Name] It's said to be "resubmitted", but no history was given. Submitted as Joanna of the Barren Plains was item 6 on ILoI 12/98, pended in 2/99 and 3/99 for the same reasons as Arabella.
[Device] The horseshoes are "fesswise contourny".
Maridonna Benvenuti
[Name] I found Joanna in Bardsley s.n. Shepley, dated to 1379. Same as the previous submitter, R&W, s.n. "Plain, playne, plane: William de Planes, 1200; Roger Playne, 1293; Robert Playn, 1383. From Plasnes ."
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] Joanna: Withycombe (p. 177 under Joan) dates
of the Plains: The documentation in the ILoI is, "Locative by name. No other information provided." This is not enough information to send the submission on to Laurel. Reaney & Wilson (354 under Plain) dates
10. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel with agreement to drop "the" if necessary to register the name.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel reblazoned as Sable, four horseshoes, openings to dexter, two and two Or.
11) Kathleen Davis McReynald (Namron)
New name. New device. Per chevron azure and vert, two escallops and a cat passant Or.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Kathleen McReynald is a more likely form of the name in our period. Surnames as middle names are, by and large, an 18th century practice. Withycombe page xliii does give Robert Browne Lilly from 1593 whose father was John Lilly and the mother's maiden name was Browne and Arthur Rous Russhe born 1564. Still, it is rare in the extreme. O Corráin and Maguire, Irish Names, page 45 under Caiterína indicates the name became popular in Ireland as a result of Norman and English influence and was established in the Irish aristocracy by the 15th century. Kathleen is given as an English translation of the name. The reason for presenting what references can be found for names under the mundane name allowance is not to be redundant, but to demonstrate the name is not intrusively modern. Rfs Part II.4. Legal Names -"Elements of the submitter’s legal name may be used as the corresponding part of a Society name, if such elements are not excessively obtrusive and do not violate other sections of these rules." This has on some occasions been cause for return. In this example, there is a possible danger of the 2 weirdness rule causing a return.
Francois la Flamme
[Device] No conflicts found.
Northkeep
[Name] Documentation given does not support this spelling of Davis. Were double surnames used in late period Scotland?
[Device] Per chevron field division is drawn too low. This has been cause for return in the past due to confusion with a point pointed. Also suggest drawing cat larger, and as the standard domestic shorthaired variety, for recognizability's sake (also, long-haired domestic cats were not known in Western Europe in period).
11. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel with submitter's permission to drop Davis if necessary to register the name. Device: Returned for redrawing of the "per chevron" line of division, with the recommendation that the cat's front paw be drawn off the ground to make the position clearly "passant." As always, a redrawing within 3 months will be eligible for fasttracking.
[Heralds and submitters are reminded – once again! - that the low tick marks on the device form are for bends, NOT chevrons! (You just thought you'd heard the last of this from me! Kathri)]
12) Marcus the Quiet (Northkeep)
New name.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Withycombe is page 206 for Marcus. Quietly won't work because people didn't use adverbs for names.
Bryn Gwlad
[Name] I assume the "Submission history" was part of the template left in. I find no previous "Marcus the Quiet".
Maridonna Benvenuti
[Name] Marcus- In Withycombe Marcus is dated to 1273 and 1303. Quiet or Quietly - . Although I didn't find Quiet, I did find the by-name/surnames Stille, Still meaning still or quiet in Reaney & Wilson, and Bardsley. OED shows a variant spelling of quiet as quyet(e). This is as close as I could find: Quyteley, John. Family Chronicle – The Agincourt Honor Roll, M-R, http://www.familychronicle.com/agin_mr.htm linked through the Academy of Saint Gabriel Library.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] Marcus: The ILoI states, "English masculine given. Dated to 1303 in Withycombe sn Mark". This citation does not seem to be correct. Perhaps it is a difference between editions? Withycombe (3rd ed., p. 206 under Marcus) dates
the Quiet: I could find no evidence that "Quiet" would have been used in a name in period. However, given the current rulings, the OED citation given in the ILoI should be enough to make the form
The ILoI states: Submission history: "[item]" was returned in kingdom 0/00 for [reason].’ Is this a new name or a resubmission?
12. COLLEGE ACTION: Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
13) Matheus mac Dhomhnuill (Lindenwood)
New name. New device. Argent a wolf’s head cabossed attired of a stag’s horns sable, transfixed of a sword inverted gules and on a chief vert a decrescent and an increasant argent.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] If this were Latin it would be Matheus filius Donaldus but I doubt that is what the submittor wants.
Matheus - Withycombe page 213 under Matthew gives Mattheus from the Domesday Book. Black page 587 under Matthew gives Matheus from 1229 and 1242.
mac Dhomhuill - Woulfe page 350 gives the spelling as mac Domhnaill. It doesn't need to be lenited with the dh. None of my books had the submitted spelling.
[Device] This has a complexity of 8, possibly 9. The sword should probably be made the primary and the wolf's head (wolfalope?) made an overall charge. All of the charges should be identifiable. The wolf head is from a SCA barony's device in Finland. Despite the strange heraldic appearance, complexity is the only thing I could find wrong with it.
Da’ud ibn Auda
[Device] At four types of charge (sword, modified wolf's head, chief, and crescents) and four tinctures (argent, gules, sable, and vert) this is already right at the limits of the rule of thumb for complexity (RfS VIII.1.a.). Add to that the difficulties in recognizing the sword/wolf's face/stag's attires collocation (RfS VII.7.a. requires that "Elements must be recognizable solely from their appearance." For example, the top of the head is very busy, and it's very difficult to tell that the thing extending down from the nose is the blade of the sword and not the wolf's tongue), and I think this may be a little beyond the limits of registrable style. The usual grammar of blazon places the charge closest to the field first: Argent, a sword inverted gules surmounted by a wolf's head cabossed attired of stag's attires sable, on a chief vert a decrescent and an increscent argent.
Francois la Flamme
[Device] No conflicts found.
Northkeep
[Device] This is non-period style. Not only does it have a complexity count of eight (counting the wolf's head/antlers/sword as one charge), but the primary charge is virtually unidentifiable. We suggest that the submitter drop two design elements (the sword and crescents, for example) in order to strengthen the design and bring it more into line with period practice.
Bryn Gwlad [Device] We have grave reservations. The horns may count as a separate charge. The closest precedent I find is from Da'ud 2.2, s.v. Head - Beast:
[A wolf's head erased sable attired of a ram's horns Or] Versus Leidhrun Leidolfsdottir, Per fess paly azure and argent, and Leidhrun Leidolfsdottir, Per fess paly azure and argent, and argent, in base a wolf's head couped sable, there is a CD for fieldlessness and another for the addition of the very prominent ram's horns, which are here clearly the equivalent of gorging of a coronet which has previously been granted difference in the case of a head. "When considering a full beast or monster gorged, the gorging is usually treated as an artistic detail, worth no difference. When consider the same creature's head gorged, however, the gorging is much more prominent in proportion ---and treated as a tertiary charge." (Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme, LoAR September 1993, p. 5) (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR May 1996, p. 17)
If the horns count as separate charges, then this is slot-machine, with three different types of charge in the same charge group (sword, horns, head). The complexity count is at least 8. If the horns count, 9.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] Matheus: The documentation would be better summarized as: "Matheus Latinized form used for the Irish Gaelic masculine given name
mac Dhomnuill: The header in the ILoI has the name as
13. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel as Matheus mac Domniall.
Device: Returned because the combination of attire, wolf head, and sword pushs this beyond the acceptable level of complexity and identifiability. If the primary charge were easier to identify, or if the device weren't so complex, we might have been able to accept it. Together, those at the meeting agreed that the device must be returned. For the record, reblazoned as Argent, a sword inverted gules surmounted by a wolf's head cabossed attired of stag's attires sable, on a chief vert a decrescent and an increscent argent.
14) Medb Liath (Elfsea) New device. Name registered 8/00. Per saltire vert and azure a Norse sun cross and a bordure embattled Or.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Device] Her name was in ILoI 2/00.
Francois la Flamme
[Device] No conflicts found.
Northkeep
[Device] Suggest beefing up the cross a bit. Design is a bit "busy," but acceptable.
Bryn Gwlad
[Device] The word "saltire" should not be capitalized.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] No mention of the disposition of her name is mentioned in the ILoI. It was submitted on the 04/2000 LoI.
14. COLLEGE ACTION:
Device: Forwarded to Laurel with lower-case "s" in "saltire."
15) Merrik Villtr Har (Northkeep)
New name. New device. Or a hare tricorporate vert.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Merrik - Reaney & Wilson page 306 under Merrick give Meurich filius Rogeri 1187, Meuricus 1207, Jeuan Eigon ap Meuric 1391, George Mericke 1641, and Meuric as the Welsh form of Maurice. Gruffudd, Welsh Names For Children, page 72 under Meurig dates the name from the 6th century and 850 from the Latin Mauricius. Withycombe page 214 under Maurice gives Meurik 13th century, the name being in use from the 11th century, and Merick seu Morrice 1655. Bardsley has more useful things to tell us than quoting Yonge's paperwasters (even Withycombe calls Yonge's work valueless). Page 528 under Merrick gives Meurik de Hope from reign of Henry III (1216-1272), William Mericke 1550, Maurice Merricke 1582, and Richard Merrick 1610. From these examples it looks like Merrik is a late period spelling of the name.
Villrt Har - Here is where the problems begin. This mixes English/Welsh and Old Norse. Merrik is a late period form and Old Norse dates from the 800s. How was the phrase 'wild hare' translated in Gordon's book? Were two different words picked out that matched the English words wild and hare? If so, the translation is likely meaningless. I looked in Gierr Bassi and couldn't find any byname for hare. The expression "wild hare" probably originates with "mad as a March Hare". The OED gives this from the mid-1500s.
All this said there may be a solution. Merrik or Meurik is documented from 1200 to well past 1600. Reaney & Wilson page 217 under Hare gives John le Hare from 1197 nickname from Old English hara 'hare' and mentions "liouns in halle, hares in the feld" from 1330. Page 492 under Wildblood gives nicknames formed with a compound of wild- were common. Richard Wildecat 1176, William Wildebef 1327, Roger Wildehog 1246, Stephen Wyldraven 1300, William Wyldebor 'wild boar' 1307, Peter Wildbuk 1525 'wild buck', Osbert Wildgos 1206 'wild goose', Nicholas Wyldefoul 1288. From these examples Merrik Wildhare should be registerable.
[Device] From other examples I believe the hare should have only two ears. The head on tricoporate animals is usually normal, if anything about a creature with 3 bodies is normal. MARCH 1982 LoAR gives the default body posture as rampant for tricorporate beasts. One bunny is rampant and the other two look to be either passant or sejant.
Da’ud ibn Auda
[Name] He's apparently documented Merrick as a surname. Does it appear as a given name in the sources cited? Further, he's only documented the independent elements "wild" and "hare", without any support given for their use (1) grammatically in combination this way, or (2) as name elements compatible with period naming practices for either English (the language of the given name) or Norse. RfS II.2. requires that "Constructed forms must follow the rules for formation of the appropriate category of name element in the language from which the documented components are drawn." No evidence has been presented that "wild hare" does so, in Norse or in any other language.
[Device] Tricorporate monsters do not have three ears; they have three bodies conjoined to a single, normal (two-eared) head/face. Despite one registration of a three-eared bunny in the past (something I will regret to my dying day), I think this is not acceptable style.
Francois la Flamme
[Device] No conflicts found. Not sure this is the correct way to draw, only 3 ears.
Northkeep
[Name] Typo: Meaning of surname is supposed to be "hair" (the stuff on one's head) not "hare" (the bunny).
[Device] In defense of the three-eared bunny wabbit (by Rosamund). When given the submitter’s drawing of his device, I pointed out that the hare had one ear too many. He responded that he liked it that way, because of added symmetry of the design, and requested that we attempt to register it that way. So, I have two questions: Is the extra ear a small enough detail to be explained away as "artistic license?" If not, can we reblazon this to match the picture? If the answer to both of these questions is negative, then the submitter is open to redrawing this in the standard tricorporate style.
Bryn Gwlad
[Device] "Or, a tricorporate hare vert". For all that I (Daniel) like mutant bunnies, this is not a registerable depiction. A tricorporate lion has one normal head, with two ears in their normal positions on a head. Also, the tricorp lion we've seen has the basemost beast rampant to sinister. Also also, the bunnies here are not all in the same posture, and they should all be rampant (with feet to base for the upper ones). Redraw with two ears upward and all bodies rampant the right way, and it should be fine.
Maridonna Benvenuti
[Name] I had some problem with a Welsh given name and an ON by-name. So I asked Tangwystyl who said:
"A complex question, since the real question is "how valid is it to mix Norse and Welsh name elements". There was Norse action around the seacoasts of Wales around the 9-10th centuries, and some fairly strong social contacts between the Welsh nobility and the Dublin Hiberno-Norse community in the 10-11th centuries. (There's actually a (slim) book on the topic Old Norse Relations with Wales.) Norse presence on the mainland was primarily in the form of raids, but they had sufficiently prolonged presence on some of the islands that some of the English names for those locations are taken from Norse (esp. those ending in the ON element "-ey" meaning "island", such as "Anglsey", "Bardsey", "Swansea", etc.). The royal house of Gwynedd became closely linked with the Hiberno-Norse rulers of Dublin through intermarriage. The 11th c. king of Gwynedd, Gruffudd ap Cynan had a Norse mother, for example.
But when you get the question of mixing name elements, the story's a little different. I've found next to no evidence for Norse names or bynames being used in Wales. There are contexts in Ireland where you can get Welsh-origin names (via Welsh participants in the Anglo-Norman occupation) and Norse-origin names (taken earlier into the Irish name pool) with the potential to occur together, but you don't really get the same dynamic with bynames, because they only tend to stick around when they're understood. During the period when Norse culture was significantly present in Ireland, you get some examples of Irish/Norse combinations of this sort, and in Iceland the presence of Irish people (either from pre-existing settlement, or as captives) meant that you got some Irish given names taken into the Norse name pool and appearing with Norse bynames.
But the conditions in Wales were never right to get a Norse-speaking cultural presence, which is pretty much what you'd need for Norse bynames. And there doesn't seem to have been enough name-borrowing from Welsh into Norse for such a combination to appear in a Norse context. (I don't believe I've seen any Welsh given names that were borrowed into Norse use.)
And, of course, if you're specifying an Anglicized form of a Welsh name, then you're setting even stronger restrictions on the possible context.
In summary, if you're going just for an "is it registerable" level, the amount of Norse-Welsh contact in the early medieval period is probably sufficient to satisfy the CoA. But if you're worried about the historic plausibility of the combination, the evidence seems weak to non-existent. Another thing to consider, depending on the actual name elements involved and the client's pickiness about precise forms, would be whether both elements might reasonable occur in an English context in the later medieval period. A fair number of Norse elements worked their way into the English name pool in certain parts of the land, and some Welsh elements slipped over as well. But that would depend on what the specific elements were -- the Norse bynames that made their way into English tended to be relatively simple, one-element names. Tangwystyl"
Villtr Har doesn't seem a simple one-element. Couldn't the client construct a by-name? R&W shows the surnames s.n.Wildbore, Wyldebar 1242, Wydlebor 1307, Wylbor 1379. S.n. Wildbuck, Wildbuk 1525. Wildgoose, Wildegos1201, Wildgos 1206, Wylegous 1379. Why not Wildhare?
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan [Name] The header in the ILoI has no space between the given name and the byname. Merrik:
Villtr Har: No evidence is given that
15. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Returned for a combination of problems: no documentation of a surname meaning "wild hair" in any language, improper construction and meaning of the Norse byname, and unlikely mixture of late Welsh/English and Old Norse. Although solutions to each problem are suggested above, those at the meeting agreed that choosing a solution to each problem exceeded our authority; the submitter needs to do so. (It is a pity that the CoH did not know that the submitter wanted "wild hair" instead of "wild hare." Given that all this work has been done, can anyone find a submitter who wants a surname meaning "wild hare"?)
Device: Returned for redrawing with identical body positions and two ears. For the record, reblazoned as Or, a tricorporate hare vert.
16) Rebekah Newcastle (Elfsea)
New name.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] The name is definitely Rebekah of Newcastle. Please correct this. The example cited in Reaney & Wilson is de Newcastle but this was omitted from the information provided to commentors. Late Sixteenth Century English Given Names by Talan Gwynek www.s- gabriel.org/names/talan/eng16/eng16alpha.html gives Rebecca from 1581-1595.
Wilim Penbras ap Gurgeneu
[Name] Rebekah Newcastle should read Rebekah of Newcastle. I know she wants the 'of' because she's my lady and I've been her 'staging ground' for name and device help.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan [Name] Rebekah: Withycombe (p. 251 under Rebecca) dates the name
Newcastle: The documentation would be better summarized as: "Reaney & Wilson (p. 321 under Newcastle) dates
16. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel as Rebekah of Newcastle with authorization to change the spelling of the given to "Rebecca" if the submitted spelling cannot be documented.
17) Reynald of Northkeep (Northkeep)
New name. New device. Argent on a chess rook gules a garb argent.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] In Withycombe, Reynald is dated to 1273. Northkeep was registered in August of 1983.
Francois la Flamme
[Device] Consider Ceridwen Dafydd 4/86 (Caid), Argent, on a tower vert an equal-armed Celtic cross potent Or. [Once CD for tincture, and possibly type, of primary charge; one CD for type and tincture of the tertiary.] And John of Manchester 12/71, Argent, a tower gules and in base a pheon inverted sable. [Once CD for removing pheon and one CD for addition of garb.]
Bryn Gwlad
[Device] Draw the mini-emblazon larger. Actually, just draw it, period. We couldn't tell whether it was a real chess rook (with the split curled head) or a tower, so we conflict-checked against both chess rooks and architecture.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] Reynald: The documentation would be better summarized as, "English masculine given name. Withycombe (p. 253 under Reynold) dates the spelling
of Northkeep: No date is given for the registration of this group name. In addition, when we look up the registration date, we need to confirm that the registered form is
17. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel.
18) Ruadnat ni Coerc (Northkeep)
New name. New device. Gules, a heron argent and on a gore Or, a heron vert.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Rowan nic Coerc has the problem of mixing English and Gaelic, wrong gender construction, and using an SCA compatible name. That is 3 weirdnesses and it only takes 2 to bounce it. OCTOBER 1985 LoAR "A quick check of the files turned up six previous instances of Rowan as a given name. Dunkling & Gosling (p.370) and Patrick Woulfe (Irish Names for Children, p.34) equate it with Irish Ruadh, a saint who died c.584. (Farmer 349)." MARCH 1987 LoAR "The name Rowan is the standard Anglicization of the Irish name Ruadhan (O Corrain and Maguire, p. 157)." JANUARY 1998 LoAR Rowan Elvesham. "Please inform the submitter that Rowan is a masculine name." DECEMBER 1999 LoAR Rowan of Hakesleah. "Rowan is SCA compatible." From what I have read nighean uí would be used rather than ni for later medieval Irish.
Consider two other constructions that may be useful to the submitter.
Rúadnat ni Corcc - A Gaelic one. OCorráin & Maguire page 158 under Rúadnat gives her as the sister of St. Rúadán of Lorrha. The Book of Saints by Benedictine monks of St. Augustine Abbey, Ramsgate, 6th ed., A. & C. Black Ltd. London, 1989, page 489 under Ruadan of Lorrha lists he died in 584. OCorráin & Maguire page 59 under Corcc gives a St. Corcc, and dates the name from the 12th, 13th, and 14th centuries. 100 Most Popular Men's Names in Early Medieval Ireland by Tangwystyl www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/irish100/ gives the spelling Corcc from roughly pre-1100s. I couldn't find the spelling Coerc.
Rowan O Quirke - The anglicized version. Rowan is SCA compatible. Woulfe, Irish Names and Surnames, page 490 under O Cuirc gives O Quirke from the reign of Elizabeth/James I meaning descendant of Corc. Rowan is still a man's name but it doesn't affect name structure here.
[Device] Blazon as "Gules, a heron close dexter leg upraised argent and on a gore Or, a heron close dexter leg upraised vert." Unfortunately, this lovely device will have to be returned for using a charge on a gore. September 1997 LoAR Aislinn the Faeire "The device is being returned for breaking our ban on charged gores which were banned effective March 1992."
Da’ud ibn Auda
[Device] It's allowable, but poor style, to have identical primary and tertiary charges. Francois la Flamme
[Device] Can gores be charged?
Bryn Gwlad
[Device] Two instaboings. One, from Da'ud 1.2 prec. s.v. Size:
[
Two: gores cannot be charged. Jaelle prec. s.v. Estencely:
The device is being returned for breaking our ban on charged gores which were banned effective March 1992. Estencely is a semy of sparks, and we consider semy of anything as a group of charges, and not a field treatment. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR September 1997, p. 20)
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] Ruadnat: Ó Corráin & Maguire (p. 158 under Rúadnat> gives only one example of this name and that example is legendary: "In the legends of the saints St Rúadnat is siter of St Rúadán of Lorrha." The submitter requested changes to
ni: The ILoI states that
Coerc: Ó Corráin & Maguire (p. 59 under Corcc) gives this name as the root of the family name O Cuirc and says that, "Corcc was favoured among the O Moriartys of Kerry in the twelfth century and was in use among the O Keeffes in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries. The Annals of Connacht (entry 1487.5) dates
If the name
18. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel as Rúadnat ni Corcc.
Device: Returned for use of a charged gore and of two sizes of the same charge.
19) Sibeal inghean ui Ruairc (Namron)
New name.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] The name is spelled Sibéal inghean uí Ruairc. Asterisk must have a British made word processor. Sibéal - OCorráin & Maguire page 165 gives this name in England in the 12th century and was brought to Ireland by the Anglo-Normans.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] Sibeal: Ó Corráin & Maguire (p. 165 under Sibéal) says that this is from the name
19. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel as Sibéal inghean uí Ruairc.
20) Sigen Fridreksdottir (Northkeep)
New badge. Gules a griffin passant contourny Or, grasping a mullet of five greater and five lesser points sable.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Badge] The name was registered January 1996. Conflict with Nerissa Meraud de la Fontaine July 1987: "Gules, a griffin passant to sinister bearing in its sinister talon a goblet Or." There are no CDs between the two for the maintained charges.
Francois la Flamme
[Badge] No conflicts found.
Bryn Gwlad
[Badge] We don't use "grasping". We use "sustaining" for large charges, which this isn't, or "maintained". Exact conflict with Nerissa Meraud de la Fontaine (7/87), "Gules, a griffin passant to sinister bearing in its sinister talon a goblet Or.", with no CD for changes to a maintained charge.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan [Name] No note is made in the ILoI as to the registration of this submitter’s name. The online armorial notes that
20. COLLEGE ACTION:
Badge: Returned for conflict with Nerissa.
21) Siobhon inghean Eoghain ui Neill (Elfsea)
New name.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] The correct spelling is Siobhán inghean Eoghain uí Néill meaning daughter of Eogan, descendant of Niall. Yet another victim of an oppressive British word processor.
Siobhán - OCorráin & Maguire page 165 under Siobhán give it as coming into favor in the 12th century and Sibán was the daughter of the 3rd earl of Desmond. Local Ireland: The Early Modern Period 1169-1650 www.local.ie/content/1813.html gives the third Earl of Desmond, Gearóid Mac Gearailt dated 1398.
inghean Eoghain - page 87 Eogan is given as one of the 20 most popular names in early Ireland. The saints mentioned here are from the 6th century.
uí Néill - It is page 106 not page 724 for Fogartach. Page 145 under Niall dates the name to 778, 846, 948. It is mentioned as being Latinized as Nicholas in the 15th century and was found down to the end of the 19th century.
Bryn Gwlad
This is said to be new. However, is this Siobh{a'}n inghean u{i'} Niall, also from Elfsea, item 32 on ILoI 8/99, ret. by kingdom 10/99 (AG 11/99)? Mari thinks that she has a pended device, but that history doesn't show it.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] I’m pretty sure that this is not a new name. Rather that it is a resubmission of
Siobhon: I think there is a typo in the ILoI here. I have never seen this name spelled
ui Neill: In addition to the Ó Corráin & Maguire information referenced in the ILoI, the Annals of Connacht (entry 1491.2) date
As far as I can tell, the standard 16th C form of this name would be
21. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel as Siobhán inghean Eoghain uí Neill. (If this is the submitter from 8/99, her device "Per fess wavy Or and vert three natural sea horses counter changed" was returned 10/99 [AG1199] for lack of an acceptable name. Since it has been more than 3 months since that return, the submitter and/or her herald must submit new forms to kingdom in order to have the device considered, if indeed she still wants that device. The existance of an acceptable name does make the submission of armory possible, and she is well within the 2 years and 3 months during which the resubmission of the armory is free of charge.)
22) Siobhan ni Domnall (Northkeep)
New name. New device. Per chevron argent and vert three trefoils vert.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Conflict with Siobhan MacDonald registered March 1985.
[Device] The trefoils could be blazoned in chevron or one and two.
Francois la Flamme
[Device] No conflicts found.
Northkeep
[Name] This should be clear of Siobhan MacDonald. Although the surnames have the same meaning, we think they are clear of each other both in sound and visually. If it is decided the names sound too similar, would changing to ingen/inghean clear the conflict?
Bryn Gwlad
[Device] The fact that the trefoils are in chief is mandated by the field tinctures, but it's clearer to state it, and that they are in chevron is not mandated. "Per chevron argent and vert, in chief three trefoils vert one and two".
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan [Name] Siobhan: Ó Corráin & Maguire (p. 165 under Sibán) gives the later form of this name as
ni: The ILoI states that
Domnall: This is the nominative form of the name. Ó Corráin & Maguire (p. 75 s.n. Domnall) dates
The post-1200 form of this name would be
22. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel as Siobhán inghean uí Dhomnaill with a note of the original submission and the possible conflict.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel reblazoned as Per chevron argent and vert, in chief three trefoils vert one and two.
23) Tamara de Montoya (Nothkeep)
New name. New device. Gules, a natural snow leopard sejant guardant proper, and on a chief argent three lozenges gules.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] de Montoya - Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century by Juliana de Luna www.s- gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/MenFullNames3.html Names from the Account Books of Isabel la Catolica (1477-1504, mostly 1483-1504) lists Luys de Montoya.
[Device] Blazon as: "Gules, a snow leopard sejant guardant argent, spotted sable, and on a chief argent three lozenges gules."
Da’ud ibn Auda
[Device] "It has long been the practice of the College that when a standard blazon using heraldic tinctures is available that that blazon is preferable to using naturalistic propers." (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR February 1992, p.19). "This is exactly the type of ‘Linnaean heraldry' that has been banned for some time now, for the reason that one would have to consult a specialized non-heraldic source ... to adequately reproduce the emblazon from a blazon. RfS VIII.4.c. notes that ‘[Proper] is not allowed if many people would have to look up the correct coloration, or if the Linnaean genus and species (or some other elaborate description) would be required to get it right.' Such is the case here." (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR December 1995, p. 18) "PRECEDENT: The College of Arms will no longer register flora and fauna in their natural 'proper' tinctures if to do so they require the Linnaean genus and species. Proper is allowed for natural flora and fauna where there is a widely understood default coloration for the charge so specified. My rule of thumb here is that if you have to look it up in a book, it is excessive. An elephant 'proper' most everyone knows — it's basically gray, as is a natural dolphin proper. A brown bear proper or a brown horse proper, no problem. Natural tigers, trees, zebras, bald eagles, blackberry vines, and such-like may be registered as 'proper'." (Da'ud ibn Auda, Cover Letter May 1992 p.2). Does a "natural snow leopard" have such a "widely understood default coloration"? I do not believe so. If it is something like "argent spotted/marked sable", or whatever, we probably ought to specifically blazon it so.
Francois la Flamme
[Device] What color is the chief? Appears clear with an argent or Or chief.
Northkeep
[Device] A word was left out of the blazon in the ILoI; the chief is argent.
Bryn Gwlad
[Device] No tincture was given for the chief. As written, the chief and its lozenges are both gules. We conflict-checked assuming it was an argent chief and found nothing.
23. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel reblazoned as Gules, a snow leopard sejant guardant argent, spotted sable, and on a chief argent three lozenges gules.
24) Tatiana Kamenskii (Lindenwood)
New name. New device. Gules, a castle Or and a chief triangular argent.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] The documentation is from the Third edition of Wickenden that just come out. Tatiana is on page 360.
[Device] Conflict with Castile December of 1994 (via Laurel): "Gules, a castle triple-towered Or." Important non-SCA arms. One CD for the chief.
Francois la Flamme
[Device] No conflicts found.
Northkeep [Name] Kamenskii is the masculine form of the name; for a woman, the name would probably be "Kamenskaya."
[Device] Conflict with Castile, "Gules, a castle triple-towered Or."
Bryn Gwlad
[Device] Conflict with the Kingdom of Castile, "Gules, a castle triple-towered Or.", reg. 12/94. One CD for the chief.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] Tatiana: The documentation would be better summarized as: Russian feminine given name. Wickenden (3rd ed., p. 360 under Tat’iana) dates
Kamenskii: The documentation would be better summarized as: Polish form of a Russian patronymic byname. Wickenden (p. 130 under Kamen) dates
However, <-ski> is the masculine form. This needs to be changed to the feminine form <-ska>. Wickenden (3rd ed., pp. xxxiv-xxxviii, Appendix A) explains interactions between Russian and Polish names. This name seems to be in line with the practices described there. Additionally, in this section (on p. xxxvii), Wickenden gives
So, I think this name should be
24. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel as Tatiana Kamenska.
Device: Returned for conflict with Castile. The CoH regretfully notes that it is unlikely that we can get permission to conflict.
25) Taya Fitzphilip (Steppes)
New name.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Taya is from Assize Roll 223, 27 Henry III (1242-43).
Northkeep
[Name] Fitzphilip would seem to be a plausible late-period English surname.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan [Name] Taya: The documentation as summarized in the ILoI is not sufficient to register this name. No support for
Taya: English feminine given name. The Academy of Saint Gabriel report 1096 (which can be viewed at: http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?1096+0) says of this name that "We [...] can offer Taya dated to 1242/43 [3]." Footnote 3 reads: "[3] Assize Roll 223, 27 Henry III (1242-43) [personal communication from Talan Gwynek]".
Fitzphilip: The documentation would be clearer as: Reaney & Wilson (p. 170 under FitzJames) dates
25. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
26) Terence Daniel (Namron)
New name.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Terence - Withycombe page 275 under Terence says it has not been used as a christian name except in Ireland. Woulfe, Irish Names And Surnames page 410 under MacToirdealbhaigh gives it as an old Irish name anglicized Turlough and Terence. M'Terrene is dated to the time of Elizabeth/James I.
Daniel - Reaney & Wilson page 125 under Daniel date this name to 1086, 1268, and 1327. Woulfe, Irish Names And Surnames page 499 under O Domhnaill gives O Daniell from the time of Elizabeth/James I. This would support at least a late period English/Irish name that the submitter requested.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] Terence: The entry in Withycombe (3rd, pp. 275-176) mentioned in the ILoI only dates a St. Terentius as a 3rd C Carthaginian saint and notes that it "has not been used as a christian name except in Ireland, where Terence or Terry is commonly used for the native name Toirdealbhach or Turlough". Note that no indication is given as to when the use of Terence for Toirdealbhach came into use. Woulfe (p 410 under Mac Toirdealbhaig) dates
26. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
27) Trahaearn ap Gruffudd (Eldern Hills)
Resubmitted name. Resubmitted device. Per champaine gules and azure a sea dragon issuant from base and a chief embattled Or.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Device] This field division doesn't show up in any of my heraldry books and it isn't in the SCA ordinary. I looked at the documentation that came in with this and it looks like modern heraldry. Getting rid of the base or moving the sea-dragon entirely on the field and playing with the colors would solve this. As is, the base is still color on color and the sea-dragon overlaps a peripheral charge (the base) which has long been disallowed. Alas, it will be returned yet again.
Da’ud ibn Auda
[Device] "Per champaine"??? "Champaine, (1) Champaine (corrupted by some writers to Champion), otherwise urd{e'} and warriated: is an embattled line, but with the top and bottom of each division pointed instead of square, and so resembling somewhat the line usually drawn in vair. It occurs, though rarely, as a line of partition." (Parker, A Glossary of Terms Used in Heraldry; we' call it urdy). What this actually looks like here is: Gules, a base azure, overall issuant from base a sea-dragon and a chief embattled Or. However, we do not register charges overlying a peripheral charge, and we do not register charges (in this case, a base) to be color on color.
Francois la Flamme
[Device] No conflicts found. Reblazon: Gules, a sea dragon issuant from base or, a base azure and a chief embattled or.
Northkeep
[Device] Per champaine is a post-period field division. In period, this would be considered a base, in which case it is color-on-color. In addition, the sea-dragon is not properly issuant from base (although if it were, the tail would be hidden and it would therefore not be recognizable as a sea- dragon).
Bryn Gwlad
[Name] Insufficient history was given to locate it, and what was given was incorrect. He was Trahern ap Seru, item 22, ILoI 3/00; it was returned 5/00 (AG same).
[Device] The causes for return were lack of documentation for: color-on-color point; a charge overlying a peripheral charge. Asterisk was also concerned about the "semi-issuant" and the depths of the embattlements on the chief. One commentary group complained about the excessive size of the point, but Asterisk didn't.
The submitter has corrected exactly one of the causes for return. The rest still are cause for return or concern. He has not provided a definition or period documentation for the term "per champaine". Parker's Glossary, http://www04.u-page.so-net.ne.jp/ta2/saitou/ie401/index.htm, one of the most exhaustive heraldry references extant, has:
Champagne: rarely and irregularly used for the lower part of the shield generally, i.e. the 'ground.' See Point.
Not applicable.
Champaine, (1) Champaine(corrupted by some writers to Champion), otherwise urd{e'} and warriated: is an embattled line, but with the top and bottom of each division pointed instead of square, and so resembling somewhat the line usually drawn in vair. It occurs, though rarely, as a line of partition. ...
Not applicable.
(2) The term Point Champaine, or Champion(q.v.) also is used. It is included in the forms of Abatement.
Definition 2 of "point" has an illustration of a "point champion".
In French coats of arms this kind of encroachment on the shield is much more frequent and more varied than in the English, but the English heraldic writers have adopted the French names, and in their disquisitions have not used them very consistently. The French term champagne is said to occupy one fourth of the shield, while the 'plaine' only one eighth of the shield, both being divided off the base by a line only slightly depressed in the centre. English heraldic writers describe the names champion, champaine, and shapourne, the last term being applied to any portion curved, but as there are no actual examples in English arms, their descriptions are quite valueless.
The illustration in Parker shows a top line on the base being curved way up the sides. In this submission, there is no curving at all, not even the little mentioned in the paragraph above. I gather, then, that the submitter means the "champagne is said to occupy one fourth of the shield" part. That would not be "per champagne", but a "point champagne" or "champagne" -- it's not clear from the text above. In the SCA, you can't blazon "per chief" or "per point" and try to get around the tincture rules, no more than you can do "per lion".
So by the word "champagne" he's using an ambiguous term, not dated to period, to describe a feature of the design to which hardly anyone objected -- and even if it were a "point champagne", that wouldn't fix the causes for return.
Blazon it whatever type of point you will, it still looks like a point, and therefore a peripheral charge, and therefore still color-on-color with the field, and still with a dragon overlying a peripheral. The dragon is still "semi-issuant" in a possibly non-period way.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] No information about the return of this name and device is summarized in the Submission History section under this name in the ILoI.
Trahaearn : The documentation would be better summarized as "Trahaearn : Welsh masculine given name. Gruffudd (p. 90 under Trahaearn ) dates
27. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
Device: Returned for violation of the Rule of Tincture and for using a charge overlying a peripheral charge. For the record, reblazoned as Gules, a base azure, overall issuant from base a sea-dragon and a chief embattled Or.
28) Uriangqadai Cinoajin (Namron)
New name. New device. Per bend sinister sable and argent, two mullets argent and azure.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] On Documentation and Construction of Period Mongolian Names gives "of wolf" as Chinuajin. This may be a variation in transliteration. Otherwise the name looks fine.
Francois la Flamme
[Device] Consider Albrecht von Halstern 1/85 (East), Per bend sinister sable and argent, a mullet of 4 points and a peregrine falcon volant wings elevated and addorsed proper.
28. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel with note of Magnus' question on the transliteration of Cinoajin vs Chinuajin.
Device: Forwarded to Laurel.
29) Veronica da Verona (Elfsea)
Resubmitted name.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Name] Valerie of Elfsea was registered September 1989. Veronica is dated to 1285 and 1427 in the sources. Da Verona is a locative. Verona is 60 miles west of Venice.
Bryn Gwlad [Name] It's said to be resub, but little history was given. Valerie of Elfsea was reg. 9/89 from Anst.
Mari Elspeth nic Bryan
[Name] No mention is made in the Submission history section as to when the holding name
Vanessa de Verona. Name only. Unfortunately, all the evidence points to "Vanessa" as an out- of-period creation as a given name, probably created by Jonathan Swift at the end of the seventeenth century. Loughead, from whom the submitter documented the name, is a notoriously unreliable source and, in this case, even the lepidopteral species "vanessa" seems to be Latinate neologism.
29. COLLEGE ACTION:
Name: Forwarded to Laurel.
30) Veronica da Verona (Elfsea)
New badge. Or, a butterfly displayed gules.
Magnus von Lübeck
[Badge] It can be blazoned "Or, a butterfly gules." Cassandra Brighid May 1992 "Or, a butterfly gules between three serpents, each involved in annulo vert." There is one CD for removing the serpents. Anne Trier of Upper Lorraine August 1979 "Per bend sinister enhanced azure and vert, a butterfly gules fimbriated Or." I get one CD for the field and none for removing the fimbriation. Reference OCTOBER 1995 LoAR Thevenin a la Cotte d'Azur "There is nothing [no CD] for removing the fimbriation."
Da’ud ibn Auda
[Badge] The butterfly is not "displayed", it is in the default "volant en arriere" posture, which need not be specifically blazoned. Or, a butterfly gules.
Francois la Flamme
[Badge] Consider Cassandra Brighid 5/92 (West), Or, a butterfly gules between 3 serpents each involved in annulo vert.
Northkeep
[Badge] Conflict with Anne Trier of Upper Lorraine, "Per bend sinister enhanced azure and vert, a butterfly gules, fimbriated Or."
30. COLLEGE ACTION:
Badge: Returned for conflict with Cassandra and Anne. For the record, reblazoned as Or, a butterfly gules.