537 Re. Split in Telugu PHAlGUNA 26,1913 (SAKA) Desam Party 538
12.00 hrs. ter, a central team comprising 3 experts was sent there in the first half of this month which RE. SPLIT IN TELUGU DESAM PARTY held an enquiry in this regard. In its report, the enquiry team has recommended sanc- [ Translation) tion of Rs. 40 crore in addition to the said Rs. 65 erore to this factory in this very month. SHRI RAM LAKHAN SINGH YADAV Otherwise, this factorx which is the most (Arrah): Mr. Speaker, Sir, while laying the useful and important for the country will foundation of the Heavy Engineering Corpo- come to a last very shortly. ration of Bihar, Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru, the then Prime Minister, had rightly said that Even now, 22,000 people are earning a this factory would be a unique one and would living from this factory and about 2 lakh of prove to be the 'mother factory in Asia. He their dependents are getting sustenance from had said that it would manufacture and supply it. machines for other big factories. This factory was built at a cost of Rs. 400 crore but now I, therefore, request that. the factory its assets have gone upto thousands crores shOuld be freed it from the grip of bureauc- of rupees. It is capable of manufacturing racy and the Central Government should machines for other factories as well manu- take immediate measures to revive the fac- facturing machineguns and tanks for meet- tory and pay the funds this very month ac- ing strategic requirements. cording to this agreement and issue orders to various factories to place orders with it In spite of the fact that it meets the orders in time and maintains 110% quality, it [English) is not getting orders from other Government factories which are supposed to place or- SHRI SOBHANADREESWARA RAO ders with it. During the last two years nearly VADDE (Vijayawada): Mr. Speaker, Sir, with Rs. 18,000 erore were sanctioned as grant an due regard and respect to the Chair, I by the Government to expand different steel would like to make out some important factories, but this factory was sanctioned Rs. matters. The ruling party is encouraging 600 erore only. The remaining funds were defections from the Opposition parties and it allocated to all private companies which are is engineering split in some political parties. totally against national interests. It will natu- Very recently, they had split a political party rally result in loss of this, factory. in Maharashtra Now, they have engineered a defection from our T elugu Desam Party. In h is said that its losses have gone upto fact, the Telugu Desam Party, which was Rs. 100 crore whereas it still pays an amount established as a regional party, has certain of Rs. 165 crore as excise duty and other principles. For a definite reason, since Shri taxes to the Government exchequer. It is P.V. Narasimha Rao Garu, the present Prime very surprising and undesirable that the Minister, as Prime Minister, contested the Reserve 'Bank of India charges interest @ Nandyal bye-elections, our Party President 25% from it. was good enough and thought it fit - be- cause for the first time, after Independence According to agreement signed between a person from the South and more so from the H.E.C. and the Central Government on our State of Andhra Pradesh has been func- October 30, 1991, this factory waS supposed tioning as Prime Minister of this great coun- to receive a sum of Rs. 65 crore from the try -not to field a candidate against Shri P.V. Central Government during the year 1991- Narasimha Rao. And now this ruling party 92 but not a single paisa has been paid to it which is in short of majority by some Mem- so far. bers, they have engineered defections from our Telugu Desam Party. You are aware of N the instance of the Hen. Prime Minis- it. I will not go into the details of chronology 539 Re. Split in Te/ugu MARCH 16, 1992 Desem Party 540
\ . of events because you yourself were the (interruptions) person before whom all these developments have taken place. They had come to you, SHRI SOBHANADREESWARA RAO met you and expressed their intentions and VADDE: We felt very much alarmed when on submitted their letters to you. It is very 13th a letter was sent to the persons who had disturbing to find that some responsible Union parted company with us. Iam not going into Minister had to advise our former Members, the merits of it. You were good ~nough to colleagues about the draft of the letter that sign a letter stating that so and so division should be submitted to you. It came in the numbers were allotted to them because you press also that some of these Members had ' treated it as a split in a group. Again in a 'stayed in, a guest house belonging to an matter of two hours, another letter was sent agricuttaraluniversityof an adjoining State, to another Member who also had parted very near to our capital city. And unfortu- company ... (Interruptions.) nately, the.ruling party's hand is very amply dear in this process of defections and split it is most unfortunate that this G"vemrnen1 MA. SPEAKER: I will explain to you h€'aded by the present Prima Uinister who ~Vel)1hing in my Chamber and not here. says that this Government 45 intereS'lsd in establishing certain moral values in the pc- SHR4 SOBHANADAEESWARA &'\0 lilicnlsyst0.m and also he has some behalf in VADDE: While in the casa of Janata Dal, the 3fri ring at a consensus with all fua political dodsion could not be taken for nearly two pof'ios, !Ialie 'left all these thlng~ 0the winds months and now in respacl .ofMembers from 'v<'hl~~'1tt.eirquestion of survival came. It is our T a!ugu Desam who have destructed and now Yi!:Jl11y shame that ',vithout 8f11' has ita- erJ~ineared a split, you are kind enough to 'll:'!,'''j.~~~1?ry'have encouraqod the cofections take some daelslon in a matter of 48 hours ... 1md HI~lfhave engineered it What I want to (Interr.g.ptions) bring 10 your kind notice is m}' agony and deep sense ot heart -burning. t will not repeat Sir, f am no! questioning; let me make it again what all has happened. But I would clear. like to bring to the hon, Ch.air's notice the letter which I have given you - you remem- {J"terruptions} ber that - to enquire from each and every Member who had earlier given letters to your MA. SPEAKER: PIQ~se, just a minute goodself expressing their intentions and later Shri Rao, Now. I am going to allow Shri Raju. on changing their views. And also, some Shri Bao, I am just saying that you can come Members, after meeting you on the 121h. 10 ma and meet me in the Chamber and I will ,.,., were not seen anywhere. When we told you explain 10 you. If you are discussing &very to kindly examine that, you were good enough ruling nf th9 Spoaker, in the House.fhen it to say that you would examine each and becomes very difficult for me to explain and every person. Our Members had also brought for you to cornpiy with it. So, let us discuss it to your notice that they were having the it in the Chamber. As far as other part is parliamentary party meeting in Hyderabad concerned, let us not be very touchy about on 14th. Then you said, "do not be worried. that. Something has happened and it is There is no hurry. I will take some time and bound to be felt by the Members. let us net definitely you will be given an opportunity ...•• be tOllchy about that.
(Interruptions) (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please. I do not have MR. SPEAKER: Please, it is not neces- an opportunity to explain on the floor of the sary. You take your seats. House what I said in the Chamber. You can talk to me in my Chamber. SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATIERJEE 541 Rs. Split in Telugu PHALGUNA 26,1913 (SAKA) Desam Party 542
(Dumdum): I want 'to say something differ- (L"!!erruptions) ent. SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE: MR. SPEAKER: Shri Nirmal, I am not Sir, there are certain important things which allowing you. Shri Raju. cari be discussed in the Chamber and we appreciate that. (Interruptions) But there are SHRI BH. VLJAYAKUMAR RAJU (Nar- important things which cannot be decided in sapur): Hon. Speaker, Sir, I am very thankful the Chamber. (Interruptions) to you for giving me an opportunity. MR. SPEAKER: Shri Thangkabalu, I Shri. V.S. Rao, narrated everything in will look into it. You please sit down. Yes, this august. House which is false and which Shri Khurana: is without any evidence. I want to say categorically that on 11th, we had submitted ( Interruptions) our resignation and we have formed a new party. (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Shri Nirmal, this is not an economic matter. That is a legal matter. SHRI SOBHANADREESWARA RAO You please sit down. VADDE: Sir, they have formed a new party! (Interruptions) SHRI BH. VLJAYAKUMAR RAJU: That is T elugu Desam group. (Interruptions) It is SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATTERJEE: my party and it is not your party. (Interrup- Sir, we are proud that India is a standing tions) Sir, let me tell you. We submitted our example for parliamentary democracy. (inter- papers to you. Before we carne to submit the ruptions) papers to you, these people came alongwilh some outsiders and they pulled down my MR. SPEAKER: There are other issues; Members and thrown them out and they took it is not like that. away three Members from my group. (Ints,· ruptions) Let me say Sir. (Interruptions) SHRI SRIKANTA JENA (Cuttack): This is a very important issue. This issue should SHRI SOBHANADREESWARA RAO be resolved first. VADDE: Have we kept them in any Guest House? (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: I allowed them. You can come and enlighten me in the Cham- SHRI BH. VIJAYAKUMAR RAJU: Sir, ber... (Interruptions)... - he is telling a false story. He said that we stayed in an Agriculture Minister's farm MR. SPEAKER: I have provided oppor- house. That is wrong. I am having the proof tunity to express their views; it is not a full- of evidence as to where I had stayed. I never fledged debate. stayed there. I have the proof of evidence and we can produce the bills before you. I ( Interruptions) am telling you and I am also challenging him. Since this Government has not given us any MR. SPEAKER: Nirmal Kantiji, you are protection, we ran to some hotel and we not in know of things. Those who are in know stayed there on our own names. Sir, we can of things have spoken. Please sit down. produce the proof in this august House. (Interruptions) SHRI SRIKANTA JENA: You told us that during Zero Hour you will allow us to MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down Shri raise this issue. This is a very important Paswan. Now Shri Khurana: issue. (Interruptions) 543 Re. Split in Telugu MARCH 16, 1992 Desam Party 544
MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down, I wiD study the law and convince me. If you are explain. If you think that such matters should able to convince me in writing,' wiD keep it on be discussed on the floor of the House, you recOrd and • will take a decision on that. But can take a decision and we can discuss this please do not raise matters without under- issue. But aD such matters will come to the standing the legal position. House for discussion. If you think that these matters have to be discussed in the Cham- ( Int9mptions) ber, I am ready to discuss them in the Cham- ber. AU such matters wiD come to my Cham- MR. SPEAKER: Shri Paswan,l win hear berthen. you in the Chamber.
(Interruptions) . (Int9mptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I am saying that this MR. SPEAKER: It is not like that. House is sovereign, you can decide in any manner as to how a matter should be de- (lnt9mptions) cided. If you think that all such matters should be decided on the floor of the House, SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHAITERJEE: I shan have no objection. If you want that Sir, you allow us to explain as to why we want they should be decided somewhere else, I to rise it; then, you give your ruling. shall have no objection. But until the time the decision is that such matters have to be MR SPEAKER: Mr. Nirmal Kanti Chat- decided in the Chamber,let them be decided terjee, it is not necessary. I am saying every in the Chamber. If you take a conscious now and then, it is not necessary. (IntelTUp- decision, I will send an matters to the House tions) Your wish should not be against the for a decision. wish of the entire House. If the House wishes,l am ready to aUow you to discuss; if ( Intemptions) the House wishes, • will bring an the matters to the Chamber and you decide it here. But, SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHAITERJEE: if you and you alone are standing up and Allow us to explain as to why we want to raise saying that this should be discussed, I can- this in the House. not allow you.
MR. SPEAKER: This is what happens. (Interruptions) I wiD aIJow you if the House decides. I shaD have no objection if the House decides and SHRI NIRUAL. KANTI CHATIERJEE: I will bring all the matters to the House only Sir, I believe that you wUI be in agreement for a decision. with that we say. (Interruptions) Kindly allow us to say as to why we want to do this~ then ( Intemptions) you come to the conclusion.
SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHAITERJEE: ( Interruptions) Allow us to explain why we want to raise it in the House. SHRI SRIKANTA JENA: Sir, what the Members want is this. (/ntemptions) MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Chatterjee, you don't know what has happened. Probably MR. SPEAKER: All of you are standing. you have not gone through the rules and the This is what happens in the House; we are relevant provisions and yet you want to dis- not able 10 do. I am allowing Mr. Jana to cuss it in the House and you want that speak. everybody should discuss it in the House. I wlll give you an opportunity, study the rules, (lnt9rrup1ionS) 545 Re. Split in Telugu PHAlGUNA 26,1913 (SAKA) Desam Party 546
SHRI NIRMAl KANTI CHATTERJEE: plete first. You allow me, Sir. I will explain as to why we want to do this. (Interruptions) SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: You have already - plenty of you - spoken on this. SHRI SRIKAr+TA JENA: Sir, we heard ( Interruptions) the two Members - Telugu Desam Deputy leader and the erstwhile leader-speak. The SHRI SRIKANTAJENA: Shri Azad, we erstwhile leader says. ·Yes. we want to a know that you are really competent as to how Guest House - Hotel - and paid the Bill.· to respond to this particular subject. They have their own MP accommodation and they did not prefer to go there and call a ( Interruptions) meeting there. They went to a Hotel and paid the Bill. (Interruptions) At that point of time, SHRI SRIKANTA JENA: In this field. the Congress ... (Interruptions) let me com- you have enough experience. You have plete. (Interruptions) defended when the same Telugu Desam MLAs were hijacked. At that point of time SHRI K.V. THANGKABAlU (Dhar- also. you have defended the Congress party mapuri): Sir. the House is not concerned and today also you are going to defend them. with this matter. That is not the point. Why We know. you are efficient in this particular is should come to the House? (Interruptions) subject. (Interruptions) The Members were deliberately kept in captivity. they were of- SHRI SRIKANTA JENA: Sir, at that fered money and they were ... (Interruptions) time, the Congress Members. thumped the 'abies. What is the allegation? (Interrup- SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU: Sir. the tions) Sir. we are all concerned about the House should not discuss this matter unnec- allegation. We know. we are in the Opposi- essarily. (Interruptions) tion; and the ruling party is short of some Members. They want some Members to get SHRI SRIKANTA JENA: Why not? It the majority. The kind of thing which they are may be unnecessary for you. (Interruptions) pursuing is deliberately encouraging the Sir. we are really concerned aboutthis. (lnter- defection in the Opposition ranks. That is ruptiollS) their habit. So. we allege that the Congress party is deliberately engineering defection in MR. SPEAKER: You have said all those the Opposition benches and polluting the things. Now. you sit down. please. whole polity of the country. That is our allegation. (Interruptions) ( Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY MR. SPEAKER: Okay. Now. Shri Azad. AFFAIRS (SHRI GHULAM NAB I AZAD): You hear the reaction ofthis side also. You (Interruptions) cannot say all the time; let somebody else also speak from this party. SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (Bankura): Sir. you hear us first. ( Interruptions) ( Interruptions) SHRI SRIKANTAJENA: Do you want to respond? MR. SPEAKER: I am hearing Mr. Nir- mal Kanti Chatterjee. (Interruptions) No. SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Yes. I cross-talk please. want to respond. SHRI NIRMAl KANTI CHATTERJEE: SHRI SRIKANTA JENA: let me com- Sir,l am sure that you - not only you but also 547 Re. Split in Te/ugu MARCH 16,1992 Desam Party 548
the entire country - will share our feellings. Therefore, why we want a discussion is In India not a single individual would be that what is at s take is the moorings of discovered who does not take pride in the parliamentary democracy. All these years, fact that India, in the whole of South Asia, we tried to generate in terms of parliamen- was a shining example of parliamentary tary democracy. (Interruptions) The stories democracy. That was since 1947. (Interrup- are there. Even at that time of defection and tions) You will agree to that. (Interruptions) to day everything went into it: favours, money, You agree to t~at ! Okay. (Interruptions) hotel, everything (Interruptions) Please bear with me. MR. SPEAKER: Now what is thin going Even in 1948, there was Preventive on? Detention Act. What happened was that for at least a decade or even more, the political ( Inteffuptions) and moral authority of the largest political organisation of the country was, more or SHRI NIRMAL KANT! CHATIERJEE: less, intact. (interruptions) Let me explain. I Therefore, what we are concerned with is am trying to raise the issue. Then you that many important things can be decided in counter. What happened after that was that the Chamber. We agree with that. But there it began with the Preventive Dete~ion Act, are important things in the country whicll 1948. Increasingly the ruling party, which have to be decided in the House. (Interrup- was still the biggest party, was losing its tions) . moral and political authority. (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Enough of it. Now, please sit down. Thereafter in the country what was happening was that in orderto sustain power, SHRI NIRMAL KANTI CHATIERJEE: in order to have a party rule, the develop- Therefore, we demand. that speakers from ment of parliamentary democracy was being various political parties should be allowed to thwarted for a narrow short-term considera- speak. Also, let them know the answer from tion of a party majority. Punjab was de- the Members of the ruling Party or the leader stroyed. Kashmir was destroyed. Every- of the ruling Party. as to what their approach where the toppling game was going on. to this problem is. Why have they acted in (Interruptions) This was discovered in 1984 this manner? in Andhra Pradesh when the NTR Govern- ment, despile having a majorily, was pushed MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Chatterjee, you out. It is unfortunate that once again we are have to sit down now. You have spoken too standing on an issue which concerns with much. Andhra Pradesh MPs. What has a hap- pened is th3t in that effort, in that desire to SHRI GHUlAM NABI AZAD: Mr. somehow or other retain the party rule, they Speaker Sir, ...... (lnteffuptions) have started this thing. We know how the former National Front Government was . SHRI SOBHANADREESWARA RAO destroyed. Every single means has been VADDE: What is the memorandum of under- adopted to see that they tried to have a standing? What were your offers? majority. This happened in Tripura. This happened during the National Front Govern- SHRI PRAFUL PATEL (Bhandara):You ment. This has become now a theme. They are also welcome! could not come here with a majority. They were a minority Government. They continue SHRI B.N. REDDY (Miryalguda): Mr. to be a minority. Therefore, they are, in trying Speaker Sir, defections should nol be en- to have their own party rule, stopping at no couraged. In the name of decency ad in the means to destroy our party. (Interruptions) name of upholding democratic values, they 549 Re. Split in Telugu PHALGUNA 26,1913 (SAKA) Desam Party 550
all must resign. They must be advised to levelling charges. I level my charge against resign forthwith from the membership of Lok you. I would like to repeat that the Anti- Sabha The recognition granted to them Defection Bill was passed keeping in view should be withdrawn immediately. Sir, this is the dignity of the House. We had hoped that a blot on the face of this august House. there will be some ideology, some morality (Interruptions) with the Narasimha Rao Government.. .. (/nterruptions) .... But I charge that this Gov- SHRI GHU:..AM NAB I AZAD: Sir, the ernment has proved to be worse than any remarks made by ;'on. Members of the other previous Governments and it is delib- National Front that Congress (I) is respon- erately misusing its offices on the strength of sible for creating this split are totally irre- money ..... (Interruptions). sponsible, uncalled for and far from the truth. Let me, on behalf of this Government. make Mr. Speaker. Sir, this is my charge. It it very dear that the Congress Party and the the hon. Members who have defected have Government have nothing to do with the the courage, let them face the elections . . split. This split is their internal matter. If TDP Such things are dangerous for democracy. is falling under its own weight because of its internal contradictions and internal differ- [English1 ences, we cannot help it. Central remarks made by han. Members on the other side SHRI TAR IT BARAN TOPDAR (Bar- from the National Front are out of frustration rackpore): Sir, he has said that he has re- and fear psychosis. I would like to make it signed from the Party. By doing so he has clear that we have not encouraged defec- disqualified himself to be a Member of the tions and we are not in favour of any split, House. What is your ruling on this? whatsoever it might be. Our friends from the National Front are always in the habit of MR. SPEAKER: On that point, I have levelling changes against the Congress even my own ruling. Icangivearuling. Please do for those things which are not the concern of not worry about it. the Congress Party. If the National Front feels that maintaining the unity of the Na- [ Translation1 tional Front is also the duty of the Congress, then Sir, I am afraid, we cannot fulfil that duty SHRI SHARAD YADAV (Madhepura): (Interruptions) Mr. Speaker, Sir, it appears from the cold response of the Government towards the [ Translation] Anti-Defection Bill that this Government is encouraging defection everywhere .... (Inter- MR. SPEAKER: Shri Paswan, Please ruptions) ... sit down. The hon. Minister stated that it is not his (/nterruptions) .... responsibility. I do not say that running the National Front or any other Party is his SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN (Rosera): responsibility, but it is not good to entire Mr. Speaker, Sir, he has levelled changes people to the fold of one's party. Within a day against the entire National several cars came out simultaneously and Front. .. (/nterruptions) ... several peopls su~or~d i~:n h~art discroe! at a time. On the 9th the number 01 people SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: I have not admitted as heart patients in Bihar is un- so far levelled any charge. But, if you speak precedented in history ..... (/nterruptKlns) in a loud voice, I will level charges ... (lnter- ruptions) ... Is it not your responsibility?
SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN: But I am SHRI GHULAM NAB I AZAD: Is it our 551 Re. 'Split in Tefugu MARCH 16, 1992 Desam Party 552 responsibility to ensure your presence? We are not afraid of facing the people. We will face the people and come here again. SHRI SHARAD YADAV: Fake certifi- This is a challenge I am giving in this august cates where produced. Are not the hospitals House. (Interruptions). under Government control. MR. SPEAKER: I will give time to you [English] also.
MR. SPEAKER: I think this House has (lnteruptions) taken more than haH-an-hour now and haH- an-hour in Question Hour. One hour is SHRIK.P. REDDAIAH Y ADAV: Charges enough for this. are levelled against us.
[ Translation] MR. SPEAKER: I will give you time.
SHRI SHARAD YADAV: Mr. Speaker, (Interruptions) Sir, it is a very serious matter.... (Intern.tp- lions). ... If you do not want to hear us, we SHRI BH. VIJAYAKUMAR RAJU: Sir, I would like to stage a walk out. give a challenge; I am prepared to resign let them also resign. (Interruptions) [Eng/ish] SHRI SOBHANADREESWARA RAO SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE VADDE: You resign and go to the people. (Bolpur): Sir, I will take only one minute. All ( Interruptions) sections of the House.... SHRI BH. VIJAYAKUMAR RAJU: You (Interruptions) should also resign and go to the people. ( Interruptions) SHRI K.P. REDDAIAH YADAV (Ma- chilipatnam): Sir, they say that we have SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE taken money. So, it is quite appropriate to (Bolpur): Sir, so far as elections are con- give me time. I will resign but you first give cerned, in this House, all sections, have me time to explain my position. expressed their grave concern over the use of muscle power and money power. Every- MR. SPEAKER: I will give time to every- body has said that. (Interruptions) body who want to speak. SHRI KODIKKUNll SURESH (Adoor): ( Interruptions) That is being done in West Bengal.
SHRI BH. VIJAYAKUMAR RAJU: Sir, SHRI V.S. VIJAYARAGHAVAN you have not given me time to explain the (Palghat): Telugu Desam and theJanata Dal matter. Please give me some time. have already broken. Mr. Somnath Chatter- jee, why are you weeping? Nobody can save MR. SPEAKER: I will give you time. it.
( Interruptions) DR. DEBI PROSAD PAL (Calcutta North West): Sir, if they say that there is muscle SHRI BH. VIJAYAKUMAR RAJU: Sir, I power and money power, there is a perfect am asking my colleagues to resign from the example of that and that is West Bengal. Membership of the House. We are all going VIOlence, intimidation, rape, muscle power to resign. I give a challenge; I will resign frOll! and money power have been used at the the Membership but you should also resign. time of elections in West Bengal. 553 Re. Split in Telugu PHALGUNA26, 1913 (SAKA) Desam Party 554
SHRI RUPCHAND PAl.. (Hooghly): That of the House and waste the valuable time of is how he has been elededfrom West Bengal. the House.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: I am I mayklndlybeglYen afew minutes time not surprised at their ignorance. Even their Just to remind the Opposition as to what had party have said that there have been use of happened in the last three years in this muscle power and money power at the time House and in this country. When the Na- of Elections. Several reports are there. tional Front Govemment Came to power, They are not aware of it. I am not surprised they elected their Prime Minister. At the time at their ignorance. What is troubling us is of elections, there was a difference of opin- that even aftertheelections, money power is ion. Shri Chandra Shekharwas here. I was being utilised. Therefore, Sir, what we are . trying to mention this in his presence only but feeling disturbed is that whether that cancer unfortunately, he has left. He was not happy will continue to pollute our Parliamentary to elect the former PrIme Minister Shri V.P. democracy. Singh as the leader.
Shrl Ghulam Nab! Azad gas denied There was dHference of opinion. In their that. Of course he has to dellY that. party, some sort of a secret arrangement was made whereby Mr. Devi Lal was first SHRIGHUlAM NABI AZAD:Ofcourse, elected Leader and he accepted it. And we have to deny that. thera was an understanding that he would vacate it; and in the same meeting, Mr. V.P. SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: He Singh was instalied as the leader of the has denied that the Congress Party has Party. nothing to do With it. But unfortunately, we are not satisfied witt) that denial. We watched on the TV all over the country how Mr. Chandra Shekhar reacted. Sir, to ragister our protest in the further He said, that was the last minute fraud that decimation of this Parliamentary institution, was committed. That was the way the then we walkout. PrIme Ministerwas elected. We nevermade any observation hera. Nor did we raise it as 12.43 hI'S. an issue in the House. The entire Opposition including BJP, Marxist Party and the Na- At this Stags Shri Somnalh Chatt6f88 tional Front when they were in Government, and some other Hen. M8nrb8ts 18ft the had only one programme: anti-Rajiv, anti- Hauss. Congrass. That was the most unfortunate story that happened in the last three years. SHRI K.P. REOOAIAH YADAV: With- out hearing me, they are walking out. Let Our beloved RajlY Gandhi was assassi- them hear me and then walk out. They do nated last year. It was the result of the not want to hear the facts. destabilisation that was created in the last three years, that enabled his assassination. SHRI A. CHARLES (Trlvandrum): Sir, during Question Hour. this Issue was raised. Now they are frustrated because on the In cll propriety, It should have been taken up Motion of Thanks On Ptesident's Address, only aftertheQuestion Hour. As theSpeaker, they never expected that the Govemment in your own wisdom, have giVen a ruling that would win with the difference of 52 votes. all the Leaders of the Opposition Parties can They are unhappy; they are demoralised. be called in the Chamber.. That would have What has happened in the Top is their inter- been the most proper thing. But, unfortu- nal matter. Why should their dirty. linen be nately, the entire Opposition again wants to washed In this august House? Hthere Is any repeat the game of staRing the proceedings Internal problem let them sort out. They 555 Rs. Split in Tslugu MARCH 16, 1992 Dssam Party 556 have not. We challenged that from our The objective was firstly to see that the Party. We do not interfere stand for any of commitment, any MP gives to the people their internal problems. If they break them- when he returns to Parliament, that commit- selves how are we responsible? If some of ment is maintained; he stands by that. the programmes we have now brought over Secondly, to consolidate the political sys- here, if some of the economic changes that tem, to consolidate political parties to enable we have initiated have shown results, why parties to crystalise. And therefore, if, for are they annoyed? They always say that we any reasons, instead of consolidation, one have surrendered our economic sovereignty. finds a fragmentation of parties, one cannot But, unfortunately, they have surrendered but feel sad. And therefore I do not appreci- their intellectional sovereignty. They have ate the mood of glee I see on the faces of the no programme; they have surrendered even Ruling Party. (Interruptions). I see very all their values. So, Ifeel that this matter may obviously. (Interruptions) I am sorry. not be discussed here, as you have already ruled that the Leaders be called in your (Interruptions) Chamber. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MR. SPEAKER: I have not ruled any- MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS thing. AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINIS- TRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI M.M. SHRI A. CHARLES: Thank you, Sir. JACOB): Should we cry in the House? Should we weep in the House? (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: That was a suggestion I accepted. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (IntslTUpOOns) AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINIS- TRY OF LAW, JUSTICE AND COMPANY SHRI SOMNATH CHATIERJEE: They AFFAIRS (SHRI RAMGARAJAN should be taughl some parliamentary things. KUMARAMANGALAM): Do not cast asper- They do not know what is the meaning of sion. walk out, what is the significance? SHRI LAL K. ADVANI: I could see the This was a democratic method of regis- kind of remarks that were being made even tering aprotes!. when this unhappy discussion was going on. The Minister is very right when he says that (Interruptions) it is not his responsibility to maintain disqlline in your Party; he is very right He is very right, SHRI TARIT BARAN TOPDAR: This when he says that out of 13 Members of the indicates that they want absolute power, Telugu Desam Party, nine absented them- monopoly, a single party rule. You do not selves on the crucial vote, he is not respon- know the meaning of walk out. sible. He is very right in that. I would not blame him for that. But in the course of these ( Interruptions) remarks that were being made, there was an element of gloating over it that the party has SHRI LAL K. ADVANI (Gandhi Nagar): broken up. (Interruptions) I recall that since 1967 the Parliaments has been very much concerned about the prob- I would say that this is not the first lem of defection which started in a big way instance. that year. Many committees were formed; many proposals and uttimately in 1985, the SHRI RAMGARAJAN KUMARAMAN- Parliament enacted a low to prevent defec- GAlAM: These are accusations being made tion. without any basis. 557 Re. Split in Telugu PHAlGUNA 26,1913 (SAKA) Desaro Party 558
SHRILAl. K. ADVANI: In the last three SHRI KP. REDDAIAH YADAV: Mr. months, the Janata Dal has broken up, the Speaker, Sir, I am very sorry that wild charges Shiv Sena has broken up and the Telugu were levelled against us, especially Shri Desam has broken up. And I would say that Raju, K.P. Reddaiah, Dr. Chowdary, Shri it is they who are also responsible for this. Ganga Reddy and Shri Indrakaran Reddy. Not only you. Essentially, what is to be learnt from this episode is that some of the political You may not be knowing, but our Andhra parties in the field today are in a state of Pradesh people know what Shri Raju and disarray. But what I have to say to the ruling KP. Reddaiah are. And I am sorry that, party is, only because you do net have a without hearing what exactly has happened, numerical majority, therefore, do not suc- we are discussing in wilderness, in a vac- cumb to the temptation of engineering fur- uum. ther disarray, as you have been doing in aU these things. (/nterrupticns) I know thai for What has exactly happened is that eight a ruling party whICh is in \-'OUf prG~ilr:! stat"" Mambf.H·'!:wmt ~ .." rlC:l. Spe
SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sir, this is SHRI MURAU DEORA (Bombay very highly objectionable. How can a non South): V.P. Singh is the biggest defector..•. Member of Parliament drag the Members of ( Ini9rruptions) Parliament inside the premises ofthe House? How was he permitted to do that? This is SHRI K.P. REDDAIAH YADAV: WIth- highly objectionable ... (interruptions) He is out the mass leaders like Mr. Ajit Singh, Mr. not a Member of Parliament and he is not N.T. Rama Rao, Mr. Mulayam Singh, they even an ex-MP. He has no right to enter and want to continue their party as a National grapple with the MPs. A non-Member of Front.... (Interruptions) We know how Rus- Parliament has no right to do so .... (Interrup- sia has fallen into pieces. Everybody wants tions) some freedom to speak; freedom to func- tion; freedom to express his opinion as to SHRI K.P. REDDAIAH YADAV: The how people are suffering and what the Ka- House should understand what has hap- shmir problem is. You do not allow people to pened .... (Interruptions) It is a warning signal speak in the internal party meetings. to all the parties ..... (Interruptions) H they were interested to see that this split should 13.00 hrs. not have taken place, they - the Janata Dal Members or the Communist Members - Therefore, we have taken the decision should have came to us for negotiation.... on our own. Eight people, majority of the (Interruptions) They do not want the pres- party Members, decided to sit as a separate ence of Mr. N. T. Rama Rao in the National group, not as defectors. H there is any Front. That is what they wanted. Mr. N.T. defector, it is only Mr. Sobhanadreeswara Rama Rao was thrown away. The split is not Rao Vadde, who has stabbed Mr.N. T. Rama due to N.T. Rama Rao and Congress. The Rao. Because of him, because of his anti- differences were created within us. The democratic principles, we have gone out. He great leader Shri V.S. Rao says that he is a does not like backward dasses, he does not democrat... (Interruptions) You do not know like Muslims, he does not like Scheduled what is going on inside the Party. You do not Castes. Shri Balayogi is a Scheduled Caste know our heart burning and how they are man. He wants to go and harass him·· ... treating the colleagues and the Party mem- (Interruptions). And what is this Govern- bers. Is there any democracy in this? .. ment, this Home Minister doing? He should (Interruptions) How was Mr. Ajit Singh thrown come forward and give protection to the out? How was Mr. Mulayam Singh thrown Members of this House...... (Interruptions). out? The leadership of the Parties do not want the mass leaders to continue in their parties. When the mass leader is not accom- MR. SPEAKER: I will look into the rec- modated, just like in Punjab, he will go and ord. start a Regional Party. That is how, the Indian politics has been spoiled by the SHRI K.P. REDDAIAH YADAV: Sir, he Opposition as well as by the ruling party has failed to protect us. That is why we are some time back. .. (interruptions) Instead of taking our own steps to protect ourselves. I going into the problems, they are simply have got great respect for N. T. Rama Rae .... accusing the Congress Party. It is not like ( Interruptions). that. And nobody is interested in that... (Interruptions) The Janata Dal Members and MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now. the Communist Members - you set right your own house and you just nourish, cu~ivate, SHRI K.P. REDDAIAH YADAV: It is Mr. the democratic principles in your parties. Vadde Sobhanadreeswara Rao who initi- That is V.P. Singh .... (Interruptions) ated this split and.,. finally we had to split.
""Expunged as ordered by the Chair. 561 Re. Split in Telugu PHALGUNA 26, 1913 (SAKA) Desam Party 562
SHRI SOMNATH CHATIERJEE: Sir, What has happened in TOP, we are not he made a comment about us. He says that happy with that. The Congress is not at all we have not negotiated with him. happy with the TOP split. If all these sundry parties are going to continue this policy of SHRI K.P. REOOAIAH Y ADAV: Not that, opposing this Government with a negative they were not interested in N. T. Rama Rao to attitude, this will continue. play politics in the Indian politics. They want that somehow his party should be destroyed. Sir, the rules and procedures of the This is what the Janata Oal, Shri V.P. Singh House... wartts. Otherwise, if he was really inter- ested, he could tell his colleagues to behave (Interruptions). democratically and behave properly. Then this split would not have taken place ... MR. SPEAKER: What is the business at this point of time you do according to the (Interruptions). rules?
MR. SPEAKER: Zomnathji, there is SHRI P.C. CHACKO: Sir, you have given nothing personal or derogatory ... a directive that these matters may be dis- cussed int he Chamber. ( Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: I have not given any SHRI K-V. THANGKABALU: Sir, on the directive, let me make it very clear. What same issue, he walked out... (Interruptions). they have suggested, I have accepted.
SHRI P.C. CHACKO (Trichur): I will SHRI P.C. CHACKO: Sir, the so-called take only two minutes, Sir. What is happen- senior Members are taking a position that all ing in this House for the last forty-five min- these matters should be discussed here. utes, unfortunately, is quite unbecoming of We are not against that. the traditions of this august House. There are certain things happening in certain par- MR. SPEAKER: Now please ooociude. ties. I only want to tell the Opposition lead- ers, especially, the leaders of the LF parties, SHRI P.C. CHACKO: Sir, I express my theat this is going to continue, not because utter dissatisfaction in the way the senior we are engineering defection in any party but members of the opposition are behaving in because of their wrong policies. All parties, this House, throwing aU the precedents and including Communists, Janata Oal, TOP, are all the oonventions of this House to the wind. going to face this crisis tomorrow because Our party is not at all responsible for the split they are opposing the pro-people policies of and we will not engineer any split. But they the Narasimha Rao Government They are should know how to behave. (Interruptions). feeling some prick of conscience, due to their anti-people policies. MR. SPEAKER: I will lock into it. If there Shri Somnath Chatte~ee has said about is anything derogatory, it will not form part of muscle power and money power. If city is the record. Now, Khuranaji. flourishing anywhere in the country, it is maximum in Jyoti Basu's West Bengal. He is coming here and teaching us political SHRI SOBHANADREESWARA RAO morals. For the last seven-eight months, all VADOE: Only one minute, Sir. popular policies of the Narasimha Rao Government are being opposed by the MR. SPEAKER: No, Mr. Rao otherwise Communists and the National Front. This is it wiD oontinue. I have called him four-fIVe creating deep problems inside their party. times. Please cooperate now. 563 Re. Split in T9Iugu MARCH 16,1992 Desam Patty 564
[TJanslation) the inciderL H. said that It was not his duty to look Into the matter and the police cam. SHRI MADAN tAl KHURANA (South after an hour, Delhi): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to divert the attention of the House from Andhra Mr. Speaker, Sir,l would give only one Pradesh to Punjab, where. example among the deceased persons a young boy of 16 named Arjun Chopra was MR. SPEAKER: You want to speak on also there. H"IS father is a cancer patient. He Punjab or on Soviet Union, the topic you says that since his sone Is no more, he has wefe supposed to speak on. lost interest in life and thus he would not gat himself treated for his ailment. SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am going to speak on the . Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am referring to these people of B.J.P. in Punjab. things because in the last elections B.J.P. took part in the interest of the country. But MR. SPEAKER: Alright. speak what you now the Congress Party is in power there want to speak. which is accountable to the people. It is under their rule that people are being demor- SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA: Mr. alised and B.J.P. workers who participated Speaker. Sir, three weeks have passed since in the last elections are being picked on to be the new Government took over in Punjab. It killed. Th$refore, through you, I would like to was only in the last week that 15non·Punjabi submit that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs engineers were shot dead in SafYiJrur and Is aiso present here. He may kindly direct the day before yesterday, 20 unarmed innocent Punjab Government to take effective meas- persons were gunned down in Bhagwan ures to stop the killing of innocent people in Nagar and Vishwakarma Nagar in Ludhiana. Punjab which is proving like a violent stroke As it has appeared in the newspapers tha4 ~ ~ '":cpe of people of getting protection about half dozen of IhGSl' :)1) ~I sons were from the elected Government. Therefore, I the I:i.J.f-'. workers, so much so that 2 of them would request the hon. Minister of Home were the block presi The terrorists came to Bhagwan Nagar SHRI HARPAL PANWAR (Kairana): Mr. and Vishwakarma Nagar in two giOUps and Speaker, Sir, I woukllike to draw your atten- killed the people at point blank. Al! of the tion to the atrocities by the police in the deceased had bullet marks on their heads Ganga town of Saharanpur district. 22 per- and chests. Ths terrorists came in two sons including Shri Raseed Masud an MP groups and in police uniform. Not only the have been seriously injured. 5 persons out newspapers have published it, we aiso have of the total were injured due to the fire got the information that police was given opened by the police and 17 due to the lathi- prior information in regard to it, the victims charga. had received threateniDg letters a few days ago. The police station is just at the distance Day before yesterday, on Saturday, the of 200 metres from the place where the 14th 01 this month, an S.H.D. along with incident took place and the killers remained another police official of another district tried there for about 15 minutes after committing to enter the house of Shri Rasheed Masud at the heinous crime. They came on foot and 9 0' clock. When his nephew stopped them also went back on foot. When a CRPF jawan and asked why they wanted to do so, they who was deployed to provide security to a said that some wicked persons were hiding Bahujan Party Member was informed about inside. His nephew refuted their charge. At