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Vol. 725 Thursday No. 118 3 March 2011 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Questions Apprenticeships: Network Rail Railways: Light Rail Vehicles Israel and Palestine Health: Care and Compassion? Charities Bill [HL] First Reading Business of the House Timing of Debates Eight Statutory Instruments Motions to Refer to Grand Committee Postal Services Bill Committed to Committee Postal Services Bill Order of Consideration Motion International Women’s Day Debate News Corporation/BSkyB Merger Statement Forestry Commission Debate Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) (No. 2) Bill First Reading Clothing Industry: Ethical and Sustainable Fashion Question for Short Debate Grand Committee Pensions Bill [HL] Committee (2nd Day) Written Statements Written Answers £3·50 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. 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All prices are inclusive of postage. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2011, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 4DU; email: [email protected] 1169 Apprenticeships: Network Rail[3 MARCH 2011] Apprenticeships: Network Rail 1170 Lord Jenkin of Roding: My Lords, can I draw my House of Lords noble friend’s attention to the success of the National Skills Academy for Nuclear, in which I declare an Thursday, 3 March 2011. interest as its honorary president? It has successfully built up a programme of training for all levels of staff, 11 am including large numbers of apprentices, for which it has secured the support of a large part of the industry Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Liverpool. and its supply chain. This is a something that might be an exemplar to other similar organisations. Apprenticeships: Network Rail Baroness Wilcox: My Lords, my noble friend is Question absolutely right. It came as a surprise to me that we now go from hairdressing to nuclear decommissioning 11.07 am as apprenticeships in this country, which is very worthy. Asked By Lord Bradshaw Baroness Kramer: My Lords, the Minister will be To ask Her Majesty’s Government what aware that there is a desperate shortage of civil engineers encouragement they are giving to Network Rail in this country. I believe that in the core team of civil and other large organisations to increase the number engineers on the Crossrail project there is not a single of apprenticeships on offer. member under the age of 60. In looking at these schemes, will she give some priority to civil engineering Baroness Wilcox: My Lords, Network Rail has a because the need is serious and desperate? direct funding contract with the Skills Funding Agency, as can any company with 5,000 or more staff. The Baroness Wilcox: I am sorry to hear my noble Skills Funding Agency encourages and supports these friend’s news that all those people are over the age of large organisations, enabling them to increase the number 50. I shall look into this when I get back. I cannot of apprenticeship places they offer and address their imagine— wider skills needs. Noble Lords: Sixty. Lord Bradshaw: I thank the Minister for that reply. Does she agree that it is urgently necessary to increase Baroness Wilcox: Was it 60? Good heavens. I shall the status of apprentices in our country? Does she look into this when I get back. We must be missing out further agree that professional institutions, be they in somewhere. engineering or nursing, by adopting a graduate-only approach to membership of those institutions, are Baroness Wall of New Barnet: My Lords, does the making it very unattractive for people to pursue noble Baroness recognise the importance of apprenticeships? The way of entering used to be apprenticeships across big organisations, as the noble apprenticeship, further education, practical experience Lord, Lord Bradshaw, has said—not only Network and then fellowship. Rail—and where the Government’s funding is focused. Will she ensure that the quality of those apprenticeships is maintained and not in any way Baroness Wilcox: My Lords, I agree with pretty diluted to ensure that the speed of getting people well everything my noble friend has just said. through does not in any way denigrate the apprenticeship Apprenticeships should provide a pathway into the qualification? nursing profession as they always did. The Government are working with professional bodies and have made it Baroness Wilcox: The noble Baroness makes a good clear that they expect apprenticeships to be a line into point. We are aware of it and we are monitoring it any professional standards and to be suitable recognised carefully. by the relevant professional body. Lord Boswell of Aynho: My Lords, will my noble Lord Berkeley: My Lords, the Minister will be friend undertake to ensure that her department works aware of the excellent scheme that Network Rail operates closely with the Department for Education in considering in its training and apprenticeships but, bearing in the recommendations trailed in the press today from mind that the Government are proposing much longer the excellent Professor Alison Wolf in relation to passenger franchises and that there is also a large vocational education? Will she look in particular at number of contractors and suppliers in the industry, the package of incentives which may be necessary to will she ensure that the apprenticeship schemes that deliver high quality apprenticeships for young people the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, was talking about can over and above some of the perhaps less well founded be extended to other parts of the industry? quasi vocational qualifications? Baroness Wilcox: Yes, my Lords, I can. Already Baroness Wilcox: My noble friend is referring of more than 200 forms of apprenticeships are being course to Professor Wolf’s review, which was extended across the country. I am quite sure that the commissioned by this Government. It raises a number noble Lord, whose knowledge of his industry is so of interesting points. We are considering her good, will know that we are working very hard to recommendations and will issue a response in the near extend exactly what he has asked for. future. 1171 Apprenticeships: Network Rail[LORDS] Railways: Light Rail Vehicles 1172 Lord Sugar: Will the noble Baroness allow me to go on many branch lines and other places, and costs off the rails for one moment and generalise on could be reduced. They are an alternative to the welcome apprenticeships overall? The coalition Government announcement made two days ago about the intercity have announced that they will provide 75,000 new express programme, where I understand that the places between now and 2014-15, which seem to be procurement costs for that particular train were £30 million focused on adults. There does not seem to be any other for the department. kind of provision for 16 to 18 year-olds. But more to the point— Earl Attlee: My Lords, the noble Lord mentioned the Parry People Mover vehicle. We will encourage Noble Lords: Question. such developments. My officials in the department work closely with Mr Parry and they are working hard Lord Sugar: The question is coming. I have been to resolve some of the technical difficulties. asking my colleagues here why I seem to attract heckling. More to the point, the Government have decided to Lord Bradshaw: My Lords, it took two to three axe Train to Gain, which provided 575,000 jobs, and years for the department to approve one vehicle which, the future jobs fund, which provided 100,000 jobs to as the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, said, has proved people who were out of work for more than a year. My very satisfactory in service. Will the noble Earl ensure question is— that, in the future, his department and the safety authorities get a move on and get something done? Noble Lords: Yes. Earl Attlee: My Lords, my noble friend has rightly Lord Sugar: If we bundle all these into some form raised an issue about the time taken for approval. of initiative for providing work for the young and However, I have to say that Mr Parry is a bit of a those who are out of work, what is the net reduction in pioneer.