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[Podcast Intro] Thanks for downloading a 3CR podcast. 3CR is an independent community radio station based in Melbourne, Australia. We need your financial support to keep going. Go to www.3CR.org.au for more information and to donate online. Now, stay tuned for your 3CR podcast. [Show Intro: Opening music plays. Speaker: Sally Goldner] Panoply, panorama, panpipe, pansy? Aha! Pansexual! Knowing no boundaries of sex or gender. Sound interesting? Then join Sally on Sundays at noon for Out of the Pan. All those gender questions making you think too hard? Whether it's transgender, bisexual, polyamorous, or beyond, we’ll throw those questions into the pan and cook up the answers for you. So go on, push that gender envelope, only on 3CR 855AM digital and 3CR.org.au. [Snippet of ‘Let’s Cook’ by Mental as Anything] [Song: ‘Castles in the Air’ by Hoodoo Gurus] [Speaker: Sally Goldner] 3CR, 855AM. 3CR Digital, 3CR.org.au, and 3CR On Demand, ‘Out of the Pan’ with Sally, first broadcasting noon to one every Sunday afternoon, Australian Eastern Standard Time. Thanks for joining the program. 3CR proudly broadcasts from the lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation and we pay respect to elders past, present, and emerging, and hello to any Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people tuning in, and acknowledge that all the lands were stolen and never ceded, and also acknowledge that some of the language, a lot of it maybe in this program, could be of a western or Anglo-Saxon nature. Of course there's been people authentically identifying and expressing their gender all over the world since time began. Lots of ways to get in touch with the show today. ‘Out of the Pan’, a show covering pansexual issues: knowing no boundaries of sex, gender, or musical genre, opening up with ‘Castles in the Air’. And that was honestly, I picked that at home and then figured, how am I going to link it in to the program? Well, tell you in a minute, be – there is a theory in this program, it's called planning and sometimes it works. Seriously, lots of ways to get in touch with the show: [email protected]; you can SMS +61 45 675 1215; you can tweet @salgoldsaidso, and that's the bottom line. And you can also look for posts on my page, Sally Goldner and on Facebook and also Out of the Pan 3CR 855AM Melbourne on Facebook. And remember any opinions on the show that I express are my own and any resemblance to organisations with which I've been involved past or present is purely coincidental, and the judge's decision is final and no correspondence will be entered into. Thanks to the crew from ‘Out of the Blue’ diving deep for the marine news as they do every Sunday, and they've had their first guest in the studio after sometime, Jill Wheeler from Parks Victoria. You can check out the podcast of ‘Out of the Blue’ marine news 11:30 till noon, every Sunday on 3CR.org.au, as well as you can for lots of if not all of the programs on 3CR. Well, I'm going to build a castle in the air, great track by the Hoodoo Gurus that; they were known for their rock, but they also did the proverbial big ballad and that one and ‘1000 Miles Away’ were just two of them. I love the musicianship on that: all the guitars and the great percussion by Sonny Da Silva, something innovative. And well, we’re needing some innovative leadership. This has been something on my mind for some time over the last few months with events – I'll just say for now in my own life – but also, of course, what's been going on in our feral – sorry, Federal – Parliament with, you know, the issues in the news surrounding – I'm not going to comment on these two in, you know, in any great detail. So no real content warning, you know, in regarding sexual harassment, that sort of thing, and it's got me thinking, and the coffees help do that as well, because it's Melbourne. You know, it's about leadership and ethics in humanity and it's something that's been on my mind. We sometimes look at things issue-by-issue. Let's go beyond the rainbow communities for a second. Aged care issues. How on Earth did we become so callous and so inhuman that we set up an aged care system that put people on drugs, didn't give them enough food or any quality food, didn't give them the time and attention they needed, didn't give people the dignity and respect they wanted and needed it the rest of their life. Regardless first of all, as a person and then in various aspects of diversity that interest this show, I give them the, you know, the respect as the unique individuals they are, whether that's something to do with gender, sexuality, Aboriginal background, multicultural background, many, many others. So now, then there a few years ago – It seems like ages ago now, two or three years ago there was the banking Royal Commission and what a shemozzle came out of that. And how could people just, you know, continue to charge dead people. Why was that happening? You know, for as one example thereof, commissions for people really doing nothing. Where did we lose our way? Well, I mean we could ask that and I think it's of some relevance and why and how and maybe they're useful questions. And I mean I honestly thought, maybe childhood Pollyanna, but I thought we were a sort of, you know, not obviously a long way to go, but we started to get on the right direction throughout the 70s, bit of progressive attitude. Something, you know, bit of a burst of increase in respect for women, for example, on gender and other things, and lots of people began to see that and we did have some reasonable degree of approach in our politics. I didn't obviously agree with every politician of every party. I'm thinking of this in light of the recent passing of Andrew Peacock, probably the last Federal Liberal leader who I could respect and easily agree to disagree with. Even if I didn't agree with some of his ideas. You know, look at things have gone largely downhill since then, don't even mention what we have now. It’s interesting, just before I came on here, I saw something on Twitter that someone is going to write to the Australian Electoral Commission and see if they can get the Liberal Party deregistered for being misleading because it claims it's a ‘liberal’ party when it's really a big C, you know, rich white male conservative party or words to that effect. That is their opinion. But where did we lose our way? How on Earth can we have media – and here's something that happened to me once about in the last three years or so, give or take. I was contacted by the producer of a commercial radio program to talk about trans issues. And the producer said quite – you know, I’ll use ‘they’ as a de-identified pronoun – quite frankly of their own free will and all that sort of thing, Presenter X knows your issues, but only wants to talk about bathrooms. So they admit candidly they're doing blatant bias to a guest. I actually refused to go on the show, even when I got written questions. And unfortunately, they very quickly, before I could alert other trans people, got on to someone else and threw them in the boat. But you've got to live by your conscience and there's a word that seems to have gone sort of down the tubes a bit in the last 30 or 40 years, or at least 25 in the Australian context, the word ‘conscience’, what happened to it? Does it matter anymore? And so I've been thinking about this a lot and of course, you know, the president number 45, as one of our usual listeners, you know, sort of used to refer to that person, you know, sort of fake news. What was it? Fake news and what's it sort of – all those sorts of things, those sorts of clichés, I don't even want to remember them. Maybe it's good that my mind's blanked it out. And so we could ask where did we go wrong, and I think that's a useful academic exercise. I have nothing against that and we could ask why it changed and how it changed. Was it pushed back? People feeling afraid they were going to lose their own power, for example, that could be something. But also I think it's time we asked how we get it back on track, and this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately is that we – I was thinking about this, as I say, in context of events of my own life and things in the world around me, but so much of our ideas on everything, but in particular, including leadership, come from in inverted commas, ‘male / masculine’ perspectives. Now, this is not ‘#notallmen’, you know. Seriously, you know ‘male’ and ‘masculine’ are not bad things in themselves. It's like anything when it is misused when it is, when power is misused, then we have a problem.

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