Guggenheim Museum Archives Reel-To-Reel Collection “Arp I Knew” with Marguerite Arp, 1969

Guggenheim Museum Archives Reel-to-Reel collection “Arp I Knew” with Marguerite Arp, 1969

MALE 1 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. As you know, we have opened last Thursday night for our associate members a concurrent but separate double exhibition of the work of Jean Arp and Julius Bissier. Madame Arp has graciously consented to speak to us this afternoon. [Because?] I shall pick up the story on Bissier tomorrow at the same time in accordance with our usual habit of accompanying exhibitions with lecture commentaries. Madame Marguerite Arp de Hagenbach is Jean Arp’s second wife. In her own right, she’s an important collector of modern art, particularly of Dada surrealism and [00:01:00] other modes of modernism and has collected since 1932. She’s a patron of the arts and a generous donor. And we have particular reason for envy when we think of the largesse that she extended to the museum in [Bowe?]. She is active in social work and a proficient musician. But her primary occupation today is to care for Jean Arp’s legacy. She is cataloguing his work. She is editing his poetry and preparing and controlling exhibitions that relate to his work. In other words, Madame Arp is continuing, with the care and attention after the master’s death, that she extended to him and to his work [00:02:00] during his lifetime. We cannot imagine anyone who would be more qualified to talk to us this afternoon about Jean Arp. Madame.

MARGUERITE ARP [00:03:00] Ladies and gentlemen, dear friends, all of you know Arp the artist. And many of you probably also Arp the poet, and quite a few of you Arp the gentle and generous friend. May I, his friend for many years and finally his second wife, take this opportunity to say that he was as great a man as an artist, and that my life with him was wonderful. I saw some of Arp’s work already as a schoolgirl when our professor [00:04:00] took us to the exhibition Neue Leben, New Life, in the (inaudible) of Basel. My sister and I were very excited about the materials some of the artists used, and we decided to make a show with similar works for our family and our parents’ friends. We pasted and fixed wooden cubes and other materials from cardboards and finally sent out invitations for a certain Sunday afternoon. Visitors had to pay admission, and our pictures were for sale. But we said that the proceeds would be given to the Missionary Society. It was a big success. All [00:05:00] our aunts and uncles came and bought, and we probably got more for our imitations than the young artist Arp for his extraordinary creations. Very many years later, in 1932, I made the acquaintance of Arp and his wife, Sophie, at a party given by the famous Basel collectors, [Nell and Weidman?], who were our neighbors at the time. I was then a student at the Music Academy, and the party was given in honor of [Honecka?], one of whose oratorios we had performed under the direction of (inaudible). I was most fascinated by Sophie’s and [Mon Jean’s?] paintings on the walls. [00:06:00] But I don’t remember to have seen an art sculpture [of a lee?] at this party. I had read many of his early poems, and I loved to dance and to talk with him. He was a wonderful dancer. And I believe that Sidney Janis gained Arp’s sympathy more for being a very fine dancer than a distinguished dealer. Sidney always had to teach him the very last dances, which he had picked up in New York’s discotheques.

Very soon after this party, our neighbors left for their new house, which was partly designed by Sophie Taeuber-Arp. At their opening party, I met [Chivdas?] for the [00:07:00] first time. The Arps were there, too, and Jean said to me that Chivdas was one of his best friends, a very great poet but just a little bit crazy. After the (inaudible) Sonata, which [Ridas?] had brilliantly recited, Chivdas came to me and said, “I had some impression that you liked my sonata. May I introduce you to my good friend, Arp? He’s quite a great artist and poet, and a charming man. But just a little bit crazy.” He must not have understood why I roared with

Guggenheim Museum Archives Reel-to-Reel collection “Arp I Knew” with Marguerite Arp, 1969 laughter when he told me that. And probably, he thought that I was more crazy than either of them.

In [00:08:00] 1935, I met many abstract artists of Paris at the show [Constructuvismos?] in the Basel (inaudible). Arp had not exhibited anything this time, as he was not a constructivist. But his wife, Sophie, had. And I bought my first painting from her, together with a painting of [Bowling Arch?]. We had a wonderful time, with parties at [Mullas?], my parents’ house, the (inaudible), and all the Bowe collectors. Soon afterwards, I went with the Mullas to Paris and visited, for the first time, the Arp house in [Merdant?], where I bought my first [art relief?] for about 150 Swiss francs. Arp, who was a very generous friend, and quite as much interested in the success [00:09:00] of his friends, took me at once to (inaudible). And as I liked [Fantongilo’s?] work, I asked for the price of one of his smaller paintings. He gave me an astronomical sum, and I was very disappointed. Arp took Fantongilo aside and said that he was a fool not to sell me one of his paintings, that I was just beginning to be a collector, and that it was in the interest of all the abstract artists to encourage me. So finally, I got the painting for a reasonable price. My father had given me a check for Paris, and I could pay these two pieces of art and invite the artists I knew in Paris to a good restaurant. I remember that people looked at us when we strolled [00:10:00] through the Champs-Elysees, as (inaudible) wore a large hat, and I, just a tiny, little one. Together, we must have looked rather eccentric.

My collection grew slowly but steadily. And I became a very good friend of the Arps, [Peffsners?], (inaudible). A few years before her death, Mrs. Mulla (inaudible) sent to Arp copies of her [correspondence?] with him, and I read with amused interest a letter of Arp to Mrs. Mulla, in which he said how exciting it was that a new, young collector had appeared in Basel, which obviously was a reference to myself. And that Mrs. [00:11:00] Mulla had to back and encourage me by all means. Arp was always interested in collectors and quite often said to me, “If I were not an artist, I would collect art.” As a matter of fact, he was a collector, exchanging works with his friends and, in his later years, buying from young artists. He was always ready to encourage young friends when they asked him about his opinion. He never began with criticism but always told them first what he liked in their paintings or sculptures. And, at the end, only suggested what he thought they could do better.

Arp was a good teacher, but he only had one [00:12:00] real pupil, (inaudible). I had met (inaudible) at the [Dulaney?] Retrospective in Bern. She told me that her son’s greatest wish was to work with Arp, that he had the opportunity to work in (inaudible), his grandfather’s studio in (inaudible). Just at that time, 1951, Arp had to execute a big sculpture for the University of Caracas. His own studio was not high enough, and so he suggested to work with (inaudible) in (inaudible). (inaudible) showed him his last sculpture, The Vinedresser. And Arp asked, “May I do to it what I like?” “Of course,” said (inaudible). And so my [00:13:00] husband took a saw and cut The Vinedresser in two pieces and put it together in another way. He said, “Don’t you think that the proportions are better this way and that your sculpture is now balanced?” This experience was like an electric shock for (inaudible). He worked during the whole week like a mad [cap?]. And when Arp came again, (inaudible) had changed his style entirely. He still keeps the plaster on which Arp had worked [the miracle?] like a treasure.

But let us come back to the years of World War II. Our small group of Basel collectors, together with [Gail Schmidt?] of the (inaudible) Museum, were very aggressive and tried [00:14:00] to impose abstract and surrealist art on Switzerland. Our contact with Paris was

Guggenheim Museum Archives Reel-to-Reel collection “Arp I Knew” with Marguerite Arp, 1969 close, and we probably would have succeeded if the war had not interrupted our activity. Most of the advanced artists of the pre-war period were primarily interested to show the ideas. Money did not mean much to them, though they were, of course, glad to have at least a minimum to realize their ideas. Scholarships and art prizes were practically not existing in this time. Or if they were, they went to academic artists. Therefore, collectors of modern art in Switzerland, in Belgium, and Holland undertook [00:15:00] to give regular allowances to artists. Thus, for instance, there existed in Bern a (inaudible). Also, friends of Mondrian organized a lottery, and the prize was a beautiful Mondrian painting. And a few (inaudible) collectors sent monthly payments to Arp and his wife. It was a period, also, in which many art groups and many art periodicals emerged. I mention only [Plastique?], which Sophie Taeuber-Arp published, with much help, of course, from Arp and his friends. And also with the help of the American collector [Valentine?], who was a close friend of the Arps. Alas, the very interesting and not in the least one-sided periodical ended with number [00:16:00] five because of the outbreak of the war and the sudden accidental death of Sophie in 1943. Arp was shaken profoundly by this event, and for weeks could not work. He went through a period of mysticism and his in a closet. But with the patient help of his Swiss friends, he recovered from the shock. And his first artistic reactions, [very few, very simple?] and beautiful poems about Sophie. And three (inaudible), which belongs to my collection.

As soon as the war was over, Arp returned to (inaudible) and fortunately found his [00:17:00] house and all of Sophie’s and his own work in good condition. But, of course, he felt lonely. And in his despair, telephoned to me one morning at five o’clock that I had to make up my mind to come at once to France. Arp’s niece told me later that he thought that I would be in Paris the next morning, and that he absolutely had not realized that I needed a visa which, in 1945, could be obtained only with difficulty. Fortunately, I got it because I had worked with the French Red Cross during the war, and they knew me at the French Embassy. When I finally arrived, Arp met me at the station, although I had not been able to tell him at what hour and at which station I would arrive. [00:18:00] In this period, a trip from Basel to Paris took about 22 hours. And the itinerary changed very often if one of the [emergency?] bridges was no longer safe. I’ll never forget our walk through Paris in this morning. On the Place de la Concorde, there was not a single car. Very few metro stations were open, and the beautiful shops were practically empty. There was nothing left to buy. But Arp was happy to see me. He had been able to buy from the (inaudible) some foie gras, and a bottle of champagne. And [though?] we had a luxurious lunch in his garden. During the next years, I spent half of my time in France [00:19:00] and half in Switzerland because I could not give up my [social web?] before I had found somebody to replace me. But Arp, too, liked to live in Switzerland and accompanied me very often. Art life became, again, interesting and international, and all the pioneers of pre-war, modern art were now very much in demand. So there was much to do for me. I had to prepare exhibitions of Sophie and Jean Arp, to write letters to dealers, collectors, and editors. And (inaudible), it was not quite easy to find art supplies and food during the very first years after the war. I remember that I had brought once from Switzerland some rice flour for puddings, as Arp [00:20:00] liked desserts. But he was just in the mood to make collages and did not want to taste [them with?] American rubber cement. So I suggested to make him some paste out of my pudding flour, as we had done as children. This paste delighted Arp so that for much years, he did not want another glue. I was very proud and happy to have contributed at least the glue to (inaudible) of beautiful collage and (inaudible).

In 1947, [Kurt Von Dine?] came to Arp and proposed to be his dealer. This was the beginning of a wonderful friendship which, unfortunately, Von Dine’s death interrupted in

Guggenheim Museum Archives Reel-to-Reel collection “Arp I Knew” with Marguerite Arp, 1969

[00:21:00] 1954. At the same time, George Wittenborn suggested to Arp to publish some of his writings and poems in the original language as well as in English translation. This book, On My Way, was illustrated with many reproductions of sculptures, reliefs, and collages. And Bernard Karpel, the librarian of the Museum of Modern Art, worked with me quite hard on the Arp bibliography. In 1949, Arp and I came for the first time to USA for Arp’s one- man show at the [Valentine Valet?]. We came by boat and travelled, of course, in tourist class, as we did not have much money. So each of us was [00:22:00] in a separate cabin, I with three ladies and he with three men. It was a very rough crossing, but as we were both good sailors, we left our cabins of seasick people as soon as possible and stayed together the whole day on deck or in the lounge. Unfortunately, one afternoon, Arp went to the bar for a ginger ale while the ship was shaking heavily. He tried to take hold of a chair, which was not fixed, and so he was thrown against the wall and tore the tendon of his fourth finger. [At our arrival?] in New York, Valentine sent Arp immediately to a surgeon, who had to operate him at the Hospital for Joint Diseases. When Arp, after his operation, [00:23:00] was brought back to his room, I was there, of course. But there was also one of his old Dada friends, (inaudible), whom Arp had not seen for ages and whom I had not known at all. He knew that Arp would come to New York. And when Valentine told him that he was in the hospital, he at once took his car and went to see him. The French of the Dadaists was a very strong link between them, and I am proud to say that they all became dear friends of mine and that my husband’s death could not break this.

After three days, Arp left the hospital, and the preview could take place on the [fixed?] day in the presence of Arp, [00:24:00], who had his hand and forearm in a plaster cast. Of course, Arp’s accident was quite a handicap for him, and he worried whether his finger would work again. [Hum Friester?], in his spontaneous and emphatic way, comforted him. “We’ll see that you can make a lot of money out of this affair. The insurance company of United States line has to pay you for the loss of [pay?], and you will go back to France as a rich man.” This was too optimistic a prognosis, but we were lucky that the insurance paid the hospital, the doctors, and all the therapy afterwards. His accident was also the reason for an amusing story that many of you perhaps know. But I am tempted [00:25:00] to tell it again.

Arp lived in the guestroom of [Keisler’s?] penthouse at Seventh Avenue, and I close by in a small hotel at Twenty-First Street. We had breakfast together in a cafeteria. As Arp could not carry a tray, I fetched our breakfast at the counter while Arp was sitting already at the little table. When I returned to him with my tray, he told me, “There was a funny man coming to me, insisting very much to sell me a watch, just the same sort of watch I have. Of course I did not buy it. I said to him, ‘No. Go away.’ And he answered, ‘Thank you, sir,’ and went.” “Are you sure that it was not your watch?” “Of course,” he said, “as I have mine in my pocket.” [00:26:00] A few moments later, Arp was looking for his handkerchief and was quite perplexed to realize that his watch was gone.

When the Arp show at Valentine’s closed, it was transferred to the Museum of Cincinnati. Valentine took us to the preview there, and we had rooms at the beautiful Plaza Hotel, with a Miro mural in the bar and lots of modern gadgets in the rooms. Since we were not married yet, the American moral obligated us to be in separate rooms. We returned from a dinner party given in our honor quite late, and Arp wanted to put on the light in his room. He pressed one of the numerous buttons. [00:27:00] Alas, it was not the one for the light, and he saw his bed disappear into the wall. What could he do? He had forgotten the number of my bedroom. His English was too poor for a telephone call. And no maid came when he rang the bell, as it was long past midnight. Poor Arp had to pass a night on what was left from his

Guggenheim Museum Archives Reel-to-Reel collection “Arp I Knew” with Marguerite Arp, 1969 bed. When I came in the morning to have breakfast with him, he was not at all in a good mood. But Valentine was delighted with this story, which made Arp very popular among his clients. Arp could not come to the second show at Valentine Gallery, since he had had a heart attack in [00:28:00] 1953. Valentine, too, was not in good health, and both were rather depressed on account of that. But then came the invitation to Arp to exhibit in the Italian Pavilion of (inaudible), together with his two friends, Max Ernst and Jean Miro, as a representative of surrealism. When we came to Venice, (inaudible) the commissioner of the Swiss Pavilion, whom we knew a little, offered Arp his help for the installation. He did so well that Max Ernst asked for his help, too. Everybody around us made forecasts for the great prices, but Arp was not in the least preoccupied with this. He was delighted to stroll through Venice, to sit on the San Marco [00:29:00] Square and sip his coffee, or eat a gelato. And when, in the afternoon of (inaudible) [of the jury?], [Ambro Appolonio?], the secretary of the (inaudible) telephoned him. Arp did not understand the name and answered, “No, I am not the Polish consulate.” I realized at once what this call meant. I took the receiver and thus could tell Arp that the international prize for sculpture was attributed to him. He was delighted but could hardly believe that one million lira were really given to him. That’s about 7000 francs today. Valentine telephoned a few minutes later and invited [00:30:00] us for a drink. So we went down to the terrace of the (inaudible) Hotel, where Max Ernst, the winner of the first prize for painting, and his wife were already. And we laughed and kissed one another. And there was great excitement in our little group.

Many parties followed this event, but the most charming one was a trip in a private motorboat to Torcello in the company of (inaudible), Valentine, (inaudible), [Penrose?], (inaudible), Marino Marini, and others and their respected wives and lady friends. We had lunch in a small inn on the island. We of course visited the beautiful cathedral, with its mosaics which inspired Arp to write a poem, the first version of which he dictated to me the very night after the [00:31:00] excursion. Arp worked always. If he could not sculpt, he wrote poetry. And on all his journeys, he had a little sketchbook with him and [carved?] with his pencil details of architecture, of landscapes, of paintings in which he was interested. Very often, these appeared later in his reliefs [or collages?], but of course he transformed them entirely. And finally, they became typical Arps. He used the same process in writing poetry. Very often, when we went for a walk together, he wrote some sentences in his little book. Or, if he had no paper with him, he said these words to me, and I had to memorize them until we came home, where I could type them. [00:32:00] Afterwards, he put these little papers into the drawer of his writing table and forgot about them until he was in a mood to write a poem. Sometimes, I told him my dreams. If some detail amused him, it ended his poem quite naturally and became part of his dreams. I believe that to be the companion of a great artist is one of the most exciting experiences in life. And the wonderful thing is that death cannot interrupt this communion. Arp is as real a part of my life now as he was before his death. [00:33:00] I hope that I have been able to convey to you an impression of Arp’s personality. Of course, much more could be said. But since Arp became famous, so many excellent books and essays were written that you know much about his last years of fame and success. For him and for me, fame was, of course, stimulating but not essential. Essential for us was our love for art, our love of life, our love of all that is beautiful and good. And that is what made our life so happy. [00:34:00] (inaudible)

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Guggenheim Museum Archives Reel-to-Reel collection “Arp I Knew” with Marguerite Arp, 1969

Arp That I Knew / Marguerite Arp; Julius Bissier / Thomas M. Messer, 1969/5/17, 1969/5/18. Reel-to-Reel collection. A0004. Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum Archives, New York