137 Calling Attention to [ 3 MAY 1978 ] a matter of urgent 138 public importance that there should not only be a Calling ed friend who said that not only should we Attention discussion on the Agra-matter but discuss this Calling Attention Motion but that that there should be a general discussion on we should alsa-immediately discuss the law the atrocities perpetrated on the Scheduled and order situation and the police firings, in the Caste persons. country. In fact, Sir, I feel that the time is ripe when the Government should form a new SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI (Assam): My Ministry which may be named Ministry of friends, Shri Maurya and Dr. Bhai Planning for police firings. We should, discuss Mahavir, have raised some points on which a this Agra matter and connected with it the law ruling is called for. My point is that when and order situation in the rest of the country. you reject a Calling Attention Notice given by the Members, you do not give the reasons SHRI PILOO MODY (Gujarat); In the for doing so and you do not consult the Ministry of Police firings Shri Goswami Members also. Therefore, as a matter of should be appointed a Minis, ter and' Shri procedure, may I know from you—and I Kulkarni a Deputy-Minister. would like to have a ruling on it—, when I feel that the matter is so urgent that it should not MR. CHAIRMAN; Now, after hearing the have been rejected, to draw your views of the various Members from the attention to the urgency 0f it- I want to draw various sections of the House, I would request the attention of this House to this important one or two1 Members to meet me in my matter of following the Rules of Procedure. chamber and I would discuss the matter with, When Mr. Maurya wanted to draw the them and decide it. attention of the House to this important matter through a Calling Attention Notice, the rejection, behind the back of the Member, if he CALLING ATTENTION TO A MATTER wants to impress upon the Chair the OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE importance of the matter, has he violated any Rules of procedure, which Dr. Bhai Increase in th8 price of milk supplied by Mahavir alleges. I want a ruling on this ques- the Delhi Milk Scheme tion. I do urge upon, you, Sir, that this subject-matter is not only important so far as SHRIMATI SAROJ KHAPARDE Agra or U.P. is concerned but that every (Maharashtra): Sir, I call the attention of the citizen of this country today is feeling Minister of Agriculture and Irrigation to the insecure so far as his life and liberty are substantial increase in the price of milk concerned. Are we to remain silent supplied by the Delhi Milk Scheme with spectators when Harijans and others are effect from the 2nd May, 1978 and conse- being killed? Has this House not the duty quential resentment among the common to__.discuss these important matters? The people. rise in the price of milk in Delhi is an important matter but let us also not forget THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE that we have oeen discussing such AND IRRIGATION (SHRI SURJIT SINGH matters pertaining to Delhi for the last two BARNALA); Sir, the Delhi Milk Scheme consecutive days and, therefore, (D.M.S.) was established as a departmental should we not divert our attention to what is undertaking of the Government of in happening in the rest of this country? So, November, 1959 to supply Wholesome milk Sir, I feel that you should admit this to consumers at reasonable prices and at the Calling Attention Motion. And, I do same time ensure a reason- support my learn- 139 Calling Attention to [ RAJYA SABHA ] a matter oj urgent 140 public importance [Shri Surjit Singh Barnala] necessary to revise the sale prices of milk able return to the rural milk producers. The Scheme as follows w.e.f. 2nd May, 1978: — was intended to run on a "no profit no loss" basis. The initial capacity of the Central Dairy was 2.55 (1) Toney milk ...... Rs. 1.80 lakh litres of milk per day which has since been per litre. expanded to 3.75 lakh litres of liquid milk/ day and 0.60 lakh litres of milk/day for production of dairy (2) Double Toned milk Rs. 0.90 products. The capital investment in the scheme as on per litre. 31-3-1977 was Rs. 426.41 lakhs.

Since its inception in 1959, the DMS has been running at a loss (except during 1969-70 and 1970- 71). The loss for the current year (1977-78) has been estimated to be Rs. £08.60 lakhs. The selling price of D.M.S. both toned milk and double toned milk has been revised from time to time. The last revision took place on 5-11-73 when the selling price of toned milk was fixed at Rs. 1.30 and double toned milk at Rs. 0.70 per litre. Since 1973, there have been increases in the raw materials such as milk, skimmed milk powder and butteroil. Indeed, the cost of raw materials alone accounts for about 81 per cent of the total cost of production. Additionally, there has been escalation in the prices of petroleum products since 1973 which has also contributed to substantial increases in the cost of processing and distribution of milk by the D.M.S. Due to upward revision of salaries and wages of employees, based on the Pay Com- mission's recommendations, there have been further increases in the cost of production. The sale price of toned milk in large cities of Baroda, Calcutta and Madras ranges from Rs. 1.80 to Rs-1.90 per- litre and double toned milk from Rs. 1.26 t0 Rs. 1.42 per litre. In order, therefore, to enable the Delhi Milk Scheme to run on a 'no profit no loss' basis, it has become 141 Calling Attention to [3 MAY 1978] a matter of urgent 142 public importance

143 Calling Attention to [ RAJYA SABHA ] a maUer oj urgent 144 public importance

laints that the people in Delhi have about the Delhi Milk Service. He is also a very pleasant and capable-Minister and, therefore, one does not like to be very hard, specially when he is new. But I should like to point out to flfm that the Delhi Milk Scheme for the last so many years, has been distinguished by reeking— corruption, stinking inefficiency and scrupulous mismanagement and you want the people now to pay the price for this inexcusable corruption and mismanagement, because what you are really asking .the people is to pay the price for mismanagement and corruption there. Sir, the Janata Governr ment has proclaimed with great fanfare, and publicity that it wants to ensure the supply of basic needs cf the people, the essential commodities of life, at fair and reasonable prices, even if they have to be subsidized. But I am wondering how item after item is going up, the prices are being increased by the Government of one item after another and it reminds me of Alice in Wonderland. Things do not seem to be what they are expected to be. You say one thing, but when we go out into the market and into actual life it is quite another thing. First you taxed the beedi of the common man. Then you hiked the electricity charges. Now you are coming down heavily on milk. Is it not a fact that for a poor family of four to five members it is going to be very hard? lifter all, whom is it going to hurt? Certainly, not me, not the other irllna's here, it is going to hurt the lo'west middle class and the poorer sections who are below that class even. A family with four or five children, or a family of four or five members will be spending at least Rs. 30 more on milk. In other words, what you are going to do is to make the milk out of reach of these people. And probably, other things like tea will also go for them because milk prices have gone up. I am quite sure that the price of tea will also go up. Now you have said that the Delhi Milk Scheme under-

[Mr. Deputy Chairman in the Chair]

DR. V. P. DUTT (Nominated); Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, the hon. Minister is new to Delhi and actually he doet not know the kind of coir.p

145 Calling Attention to [ 3 MAY 1978 ] a matter of urgent 146 public importance taking's business was to provide wholesome I was happy to learn that the hon.. Minister is milk and you have compared the prices with himself looking into ttus. So I would like to Bombay. I do not know if the hon. Minister is ask, if you are yourself looking into it, getting his milk from the Delhi Milk Scheme would you stop the increase in prices until you or not, but I would like to ask; What kind of have fully gone into the whole question, until milk is being provided by the DMS? Is it you have fully investigated it, until you have wholesome milk? In fact, sometimes one won- found out the proportion of mismanagement ders whether it is milk at all because all I and the increase in the prices of the so called see—I hpve been using this service for many raw materials—that is the price of the milk years—is powder and water mixed together. that is obtained? Would you find out what is That is all. That is the DMS milk that is being the exact situation ancT&nly ihen take a provided to us. And yet you want to raise the decision about the incpease in milk prices? I price even of this mixture of powder and,, would say that "Delhi has been unfortunate water. in every possible way. Every article is going iip. Would you, therefore, at this momenf not increase the price of milk but stay it and Sir, the management is top-heavy as well as fully investigate the working of the Delhi bottom-heavy. If the hon. Minister would Milk Scheme ""arid even have a Parliamentary lend his ears for a minute, what is the kind Committee to assist you? I say this of corruption that one sees even as a daily because it is not some thing which does not occurrence? This milk bottles come. The affect the daily life of the people. It affects covers are loose. ,The cover is removed. the 3aily life of the people. So have a Water is mixed int0 it and the cover is Parliamentary Committee to assist you and replaced. And if you make a complaint, only then come to a decision. Would the hon. you get a letter from the General Minister accept my suggestions? Manager that the matter is being looked into. Then after two months, an Inspector And Finally, I would like to ask, what is comes and asks you, "Did you complain?" the percentage -Df administrative You say, "Yes, I did complain, probably expenditure t0 the total expenditure of the made the mistake of doing it". "Do you go Delhi Milk Scheme which has produced all yourself"? "No, somebody else goes". this heavy loss? Would you kindly enlighten "Well, that man is corrupt. He is doing us as to what is the ratio of the administrative it". When you point out that you have expenditure to the total expenditure? The already taken the precaution of sending real point that I want to make is, as I said, different people for a few days and each per- you have committed yourself to the supply of son has given "the same report, then after the basic needs of the people at three or four months the reply comes: "The reasonable^-prices. Then how is it that you matter has been looked into. It seems are yourself increasing the prices of the basic there is some misunderstanding. In any needs of the people and where will it end? case, we will see that these things do not Would you, therefore, consider this as a happen again, or that you have no cause to contradiction to your own basic policy and stop complain". This is the kind of reply that theThcrease? TTon't increase *he price, stop you get. After all, you are intending to this process here and let there be" a "?tuT~ provide a service for the supply of investigation °f the Delhi Milk Scheme affairs wholesome milk to ths population of before any decision is taken. this country. You arc now giving them sub-standard milk and raising the price. 147 Calling Attention to [ RAJYA SABHA ] a matter of argent 148 public importance SHRI SURJIT SINGH BARNALA; Sir, as ply good quality milk to the people of Delhi. I submitted earlier, the prices pf raw" materials fcjase increased. Fa« DR. V. P. DUTT; Sir, I had raised So many -example, the price of raw milk in 1973, when questions. the price was earlier increased, was Rs. 130 per quintal, which had been selling earlier at SHRI SURJIT SINGH BARNALA: Sir, he Rs. 129 per quintal. And then by 1977 it had had asked about the percentage of gone up to Rs. 186 per quintal. That is an administration charges. I may only mention increase of 45 per cent in the price of the raw that the incidence of salaries and wages per material. Similarly, the price of Skimmed litre during 1973-74 was 11 paise, which milk powder in 1977 was Rs. 8,303, which during 1977-78 has gone up to 17 paise. .in 1978 has gone up to 12,780. DR. V. P. DUTT: The point I was raising DR. V. P. DUTT: Is the hon. Minister was that this administrative cost is put into the certain that the actual price is being paid? DMS milk prioa, It is not just a rise in the price of milk. I also asked him whether he SHRI SURJIT SINGH BARNALA: Yes. would stay the proposed increase in the price of milk until he had himself inquired into the working of the DMS with the assistance of a DR. V. P. DUTT; Or, is he only parlia-menary committee. .going by the books? SHRI SURJIT SINGH BARNALA: I must SHRI SURJIT SINGH BARNALA; This is say that the administrative charges also have the ' price paid to" the dairy . farmers, the producer^ of milk. This is the price being paid to be borne by the commodity itself. We to the dairy farmers or the~ milk producers in cannot provide for the administrative charges Rajasthan or U.P. or areas, because from an outside agency. So they are to be unfortunately Delhi city as such does not have included in the price. And, as the a milk shed and milk hag to be brought from administrative charges have gone up, as I have far-off places and there is the cost of trans- submitted, they have also to be added on to portation also. For example, from Bikaney the price of, milk that is being paid. For the so:jie milk is brought at a very high" cost of time being, Since it is a Cabinet decision, we transportation. Milk is also brought from are not going to reduce the price. Haryana and U.P. That is why all this loss was occurring and that is why from year to year the SHRI N. P. CHENGALRAYA NAIDU loss^was increasing. There have been (); Sir, I agree with the complaints about mismanagement, as alleged Minister that the cost of the raw material has by my hon. friend. We are looking into that increased. But I. want to know from him whe- matter. We are going into all *he aspects, the ther he has got any plan to invite experts from working of the various departments of the Anand Dairy in Gujarat to look into" the DMS. He has also alleged that for many years working of the DMS and find out what steps there has been bungling in its working. That is they can take to cut down the expenditure and why I have stated that the la«ses have been of improve the- quality. Sir, the Delhi people are the order of Rs. li crores every year for the last not only paying for the. milk but also for rats So many years. We are looking into all these and other things which go into the milk bot- things so that we can sup- tles. So it is poison which is being given. And still he wants to increase 149 Messages from [3 MAY 1978 ] 150 the price by 25 per cent. They must cut down the price. I would ask the hon. Minister whether he would consider reducing by half the proposed increases in price.

SHRI SURJIT SINGH BARNALA: Sir, the Managing Committee of the DMS is going to be headed by Dr. Kurien himself. He will look into all the aspects. He is making an assessment of the working of different branches. That has already started. As I have stated earlier, there is no proposal of reducing the increased price. The question was put and the motion was adopted, SHRI MANUBHAI MOTILAL PATEL (Gujarat): What is the practice? Is it that the mover speaks first and then whoever catches your eye will be allowed to speak? MOTION FOR ELECTION TO THE INDIAN COUNCIL OF AGRICUL- TURAL RESEARCH SOCIETY

THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE AND IRRIGATION (SHRI SURJIT SINGH BARNALA): Sir, I beg to move:

"That in pursuance of rule 4(vii) read with rule 9 of the Rules of the Indian Council of Agricultural Research Society, this House do proceed to elect in such manner as the Chairman may direct, two members from among the members of the House to be members of the Indian Council of Agricultural Research Society."

The question was put and fh9 motion was adopted,

MOTION FOR ELECTION TO THE. MESSAGES FROM THE LOK GOVERNING BODY OF THE INDIAN COUNCIL OF MEDICAL RESEARCH SABHA I. The Electricity (Supply) Amend- ment Bill, 1978. II. The Coal Mines Nationalisation aws (Amendment) Bill, 1978.

SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I beg to report to the House the following messages received from the Lok Sabha, signed by the Secretary of the Lok Sabha: —