Nunavut Canada

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF

2nd Session 5th Assembly

HANSARD

Official Report

DAY 24

Wednesday, October 31, 2018

Pages 1497 – 1538

Iqaluit

Speaker: The Honourable Joe Enook, M.L.A.

Legislative Assembly of Nunavut

Speaker Hon. Joe Enook ()

Hon. David Akeeagok Joelie Kaernerk Emiliano Qirngnuq () () (Netsilik) Deputy Premier; Minister of Economic Development and Transportation Mila Kamingoak Paul Quassa (Kugluktuk) () Tony Akoak (Gjoa Haven) Pauloosie Keyootak Allan Rumbolt Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole () (Hudson Bay) Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole Pat Angnakak Hon. Lorne Kusugak (Iqaluit-Niaqunnguu) () Hon. Joe Savikataaq Minister of Community and () Hon. Jeannie Ehaloak Government Services; Minister Premier; Minister of Executive and (Cambridge Bay) responsible for the Nunavut Intergovernmental Affairs; Minister Minister of Energy; Minister of Environment; Housing Corporation responsible for Aboriginal Affairs; Minister of Justice; Minister responsible for Minister responsible for Seniors; Minister Labour; Minister responsible for the Qulliq Adam Lightstone responsible for the Utility Rates Review Energy Corporation (Iqaluit-Manirajak) Council

Hon. George Hickes John Main Hon. Elisapee Sheutiapik (Iqaluit-Tasiluk) (Arviat North-Whale Cove) (Iqaluit-Sinaa) Minister of Finance, Chair of the Financial Government House Leader; Minister of Management Board; Minister of Health; Simeon Mikkungwak Family Services; Minister responsible for Minister responsible for Suicide Prevention; (Baker Lake) Homelessness; Minister responsible for Minister responsible for the Workers’ Safety Deputy Speaker and Chair of Immigration; Minister responsible for the and Compensation Commission the Committee of the Whole Status of Women

Hon. Margaret Nakashuk Cathy Towtongie () (Pangnirtung) (-Chesterfield Inlet) Minister of Culture and Heritage; Minister of Education; Minister of Languages; Minister Patterk Netser () responsible for Nunavut Arctic College

Officers Clerk John Quirke

Clerk Assistant Law Clerk Sergeant-at-Arms Hansard Production Stephen Innuksuk Michael Chandler Charlie Audlakiak Innirvik Support Services

Box 1200 Iqaluit, Nunavut, X0A 0H0 Tel (867) 975-5000 Fax (867) 975-5190 Toll-Free (877) 334-7266 Website: www.assembly.nu.ca

Table of Contents

Opening Prayer ...... 1497

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters ...... 1498

Report of the Committee of the Whole ...... 1537

Orders of the Day ...... 1537

A. Daily References

Wednesday, October 31, 2018...... 1497

B. Committee Motions

004 – 5(2): Deletion of $1,900,000 from the 2019-2020 Capital Estimates of the Department of

Education ...... 1535

C. Bills

Bill 09 – Appropriation (Capital) Act, 2019-2020 – Community and Government Services –

Consideration in Committee ...... 1498

Bill 09 – Appropriation (Capital) Act, 2019-2020 – Education – Consideration in Committee 1528

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1497

Iqaluit, Nunavut I would have to rule myself out of order Wednesday, October 31, 2018 if I informed the House how many Members Present: candles will be on her birthday cake Hon. David Akeeagok, Mr. Tony Akoak, today. Ms. Pat Angnakak, Hon. Jeannie Ehaloak, Hon. Joe Enook, Hon. George >>Laughter Hickes, Hon. David Joanasie, Mr. Joelie Kaernerk, Ms. Mila Kamingoak, Mr. But I can say with absolute certainty that Pauloosie Keyootak, Hon. Lorne I cherish every precious year that we Kusugak, Mr. Adam Lightstone, Mr. have been together. John Main, Ms. Margaret Nakashuk, Mr. Patterk Netser, Mr. Emiliano Qirngnuq, (interpretation) Mary, I know that you Mr. Paul Quassa, Mr. Allan Rumbolt, are watching, so please know that you Hon. Joe Savikataaq, Hon. Elisapee are always in my thoughts and in my Sheutiapik, Ms. Cathy Towtongie. heart. (interpretation ends) Thank you.

>>House commenced at 13:29 >>Applause

Item 1: Opening Prayer (interpretation) Member for Hudson Bay, Mr. Rumbolt. Speaker (Hon. Joe Enook) (interpretation): Mr. Netser, can you say Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. the opening prayer, please. Happy Halloween and a safe Halloween to all of our constituents out there. >>Prayer Mr. Speaker, the first trick I would like Speaker (interpretation): Thank you, to try to pull today… Mr. Netser. Good afternoon, (interpretation ends) Premier >>Laughter (interpretation) and my colleagues. We say “good afternoon” to all …is I would like to seek unanimous Nunavummiut who are watching the consent to proceed directly to Item 19 on televised proceedings and listening to the order paper. Thank you, Mr. the radio broadcast. Welcome. Speaker.

(interpretation ends) Today is October An Hon. Member: Nice try. 31, and I am sure we will experience both tricks and treats during today’s >>Laughter sitting. Speaker (interpretation): Thank you. For me, the greatest treat is the The member is seeking unanimous opportunity to publicly wish my dear consent to go directly to Item 19 in the wife, Mary, a very happy birthday. Orders of the Day. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Let’s now go directly >>Applause to Item 19.

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Please mute your cellphones. Arctic College. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Item 19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters. Chairman: Thank you. Are we in Bills 2, 9, 10, and 11 with Mr. Akoak in agreement that we first deal with Bill 9? the Chair. Some Members: Agreed. In accordance with the authority provided to me by Motion 14 – 5(2), the Bill 09 – Appropriation (Capital) Act, committee will stay in session until it 2019-2020 – Community and reports itself out. Government Services – Consideration in Committee Now I ask you all to remain seated as we shall proceed directly to the Committee Chairman: Thank you. I would like to of the Whole. ask Minister Kusugak: do you have officials that you would like to appear Sergeant-at-Arms. before the committee? Minister Kusugak. Item 19: Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Matters Chairman. I would appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Chairman (Mr. Akoak): Good afternoon. Before I start, just looking Chairman: Thank you. Does the around the room, I see lots of colourful committee agree to let the minister’s masks on today. officials go to the witness table?

>>Laughter Some Members: Agreed.

Thank you. I would like to call the Chairman: Sergeant-at-Arms, please committee meeting to order. In escort the officials in. Committee of the Whole we have the following items to deal with: Bills 2, 9, Thank you. For the record, Minister 10, and 11. What is the wish of the Kusugak, please introduce your officials. committee? Mr. Main. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Chairman. To my right is Mr. Eiryn Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) We Devereaux, ADM of Infrastructure , and wish to continue with the review of Bill to my left is Mr. Kyle Seeley, ADM of 9 and the capital main estimates for the Municipal Government. Thank you, Mr. Department of Community and Chairman. Government Services, followed by the Department of Education, then the Chairman: Thank you. Yesterday we Department of Economic Development were on page J-3. Community and and Transportation and, if time permits Government Services. Local and I highly doubt it will, Nunavut Government Services. The next name on

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1499 the list, Mr. Netser. they will be getting their garages? Thank you. Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I didn’t realize that we Chairman: Minister Kusugak. were on J-3. I was going to ask a question on page J-4. Is that okay? Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you. We’re aware of the Thank you. (interpretation ends) Good importance of parking garages. We’re afternoon, minister. (interpretation) I am currently looking at how we could happy that we’re back today. provide new funding to this program. Once that is done, we will identify which The question I would like to pose is communities will receive parking about the increasing number of garages and when. I will keep my municipal vehicles, such as water and colleagues updated on the status of this sewage trucks. They lack garage space work. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. and they are buying more vehicles. The hamlet councils that I represent have Chairman: Mr. Netser. been requesting garages for their vehicles. I would like to ask the minister Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, for an update and if any planning has Mr. Chairman. I also thank you, been done on that. minister. Our Member for Aggu had made statements in the House in regard Chairman: Minister Kusugak. to dusty roads. We realize that the CGS department provides dust suppressants to Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): the hamlets. They ship it up on sealift. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank Some communities are not sufficiently my colleague for his question. There is a trained on the application of the dust shortage of heated garages in Nunavut as suppressants, so their supply doesn’t last a whole. It’s obvious that is also the case the entire summer. They probably in your communities. With the deplete the dust suppressant because increasing number of vehicles or heavy they don’t know how to use it. equipment, it’s true they are lacking space. We toured the communities in Can the government train workers on Nunavut to find out what is urgently how to use dust suppressants properly? needed and the lack of heated garages Some people have trouble breathing or was a main topic of discussion. The list have weak lungs. If there is proper of priorities is reviewed as to what training on how to use these chemicals, should and should not be included. it could last all summer rather than being They’re all being worked on at this time. depleted right away. Does your Thank you, Mr. Chairman. department have any plans to train its workers at the local level? Thank you, Chairman: Mr. Netser. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Mr. Chairman. When will the communities be informed as to when

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Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Lake and Kugluktuk; in 2020 they will I’m very pleased that you’re asking this be going to Cambridge Bay and Naujaat; question, Mr. Netser. Yes, I have seen and going down the list, different suppressants being put down on will get a new fire truck in 2022. There the road. They put the dust suppressant will be two communities receiving fire on the road and the water truck will trucks each year all the way down the follow behind. We have seen different list. I can go through the entire list if you methods of suppressing dust on the road. want. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know that at the beginning there was a training program for the municipalities Chairman (interpretation): Are you on how to apply the dust suppressant. If done? (interpretation ends) Thank you. you don’t apply it properly, as you The next name on the list, Mr. Rumbolt. stated, it gets depleted right away. Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. We can provide training. The Municipal Chairman, and good afternoon. My first Training Organization provides training question is going to be regarding the to municipal staff for such things as letter that was provided to us yesterday driving and financial management. We by the minister’s staff. Over the past will discuss this matter with the MTO to several months there have been a see if they can provide training in the number of RFPs in the paper for solid summer on how to apply the dust waste management in our communities. suppressant properly. We will deal with it this coming summer to ensure they In this letter you talk about three types of know how to apply the dust suppressant priorities for solid waste management. properly. I will follow up with your You talk about short-term priorities: question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Arviat, Clyde River, Grise Fiord, Resolute Bay; medium-term priorities: Chairman: Mr. Netser. Rankin Inlet, , Gjoa Haven, Taloyoak, Pangnirtung; and long-term Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, priorities: , Hall Beach, Whale Mr. Chairman. I also thank the minister Cove, Sanikiluaq, and Cape Dorset. for his response. When we’re talking about the fire truck identified here, For starters, I wonder if they can give which community is it going to and how me a definition of what a short-term or many communities will be receiving fire medium- or long-term priority means in trucks next year? Thank you. number of years. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. communities will be getting fire trucks Chairman. I will try to elaborate. Thank have been identified. We now order two you for the question, sir. fire trucks every summer. In 2018 Arviat and Pangnirtung will be getting fire In terms of short term, it deals with the trucks; in 2019 they will go to Baker start of the feasibility study on through

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1501 to the end of the feasibility study and communities through the ICSP process, also the anticipated tabling of the in addition to the review of the existing feasibility studies on those projects. It is facilities and their potential lifespan as more driven by the start and stop dates. well as the current management Thank you, Mr. Chairman. practices within the communities. Of course the prioritization is within the Chairman: Mr. Rumbolt. municipalities responsible for managing those facilities. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. There is no specific date or time limit for each particular priority, the Chairman: Mr. Rumbolt. way I’m seeing it, between start and completion. Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am aware that When you decided which communities municipalities are responsible for their were going to be the short term, medium waste facilities. One final question in or long term, how did you come up with this particular area is, your short-term your reasoning for placing each priorities are Arviat, Clyde River… . I community where they are? Thank you, named them all and I won’t name them Mr. Chairman. again. Does it mean that you will finish these communities in short-term Chairman: Minister Kusugak. priorities before you move on to mid- term priorities and the long-term Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. priorities? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. Thank you for the question. There are different things we take into Chairman: Minister Kusugak. consideration, some of which are the existing lifespan of the current facility; Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. how long it can be maintained before we Chairman. Not necessarily. I think there need to replace it is one of the key are some projects that will be priorities. overlapped. We will be finishing up on one project and doing planning and Mr. Chairman, if I could have Mr. design on one or two or three more. It Seeley give more detail on that. Thank will be a continuing, revolving issue, you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. There will not be a “We have to finish Arviat before we start Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Seeley. Sanikiluaq.” There will be none of that. We will do what we can and keep it Mr. Seeley: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. rolling so there is no stalling and hiccups Thank you, minister. I thank the member waiting for project A before project B for the question. The solid waste goes forward. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. facilities are managed by the municipalities. The actual evaluation of Chairman: Mr. Rumbolt. where they sit and fit within the development of the new waste bundles Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. was established in consultation with the Chairman. I thank the minister for that

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1502 clarification. On to a different subject, Chairman: Mr. Devereaux. on page 8 of my opening comments I talked about funds being in your Mr. Devereaux: Thank you, Mr. proposed budget for the South Baffin Chairman. I thank the member for the Energy Management Project, which is question. Our Energy Strategy first also a component of the Nunavut Energy focused on the city of Iqaluit in which Management Program. I do believe there we undertook a pilot and have seen great are six communities involved in that success for return on investment relative program. Can the minister confirm to energy upgrades. which six communities are part of this project? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the committee is likely aware, we then moved on to the Kivalliq and we’re Chairman: Minister Kusugak. currently in the implementation phase, so construction is ongoing as we speak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. While we were in the implementation Chairman. If I could have 30 seconds. phase for the Kivalliq, we had Thank you, Mr. Chairman. undertaken the feasibility study for South Baffin for the six communities, Mr. Chairman, I have to get back to my which I believe are Sanikiluaq, Cape colleague on that on which communities Dorset, Kimmirut, Pangnirtung, they are. It’s here somewhere, Mr. Qikiqtarjuaq, and one more which we Chairman. Thank you. I’ll get back to will verify once we find the documents. him as soon as we find it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We’re hoping to move forward if we get approval into the implementation phase Chairman: Mr. Rumbolt. for the South Baffin in six communities in terms of that strategy. We’re about to Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. embark on the feasibility study for the Chairman. Another question I had along North Baffin communities and, if those lines is there are six communities successful, we would see that feasibility that I know of that are in this project and study completed about this time next it would be interesting to know: what is year, with anticipation that we would be your department’s timetable for coming back in front of the Assembly expanding this energy management looking for potential funding for North project to the remaining communities in Baffin’s energy management program. Nunavut? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Then it would be our intent to move to Chairman: Minister Kusugak. the final region, the Kitikmeot region, to undertake a feasibility study the year Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. after and again seek some form of an Chairman. I appreciate the question and appropriation to implement the thanks for your patience. If I could, Kitikmeot strategy if approved. Thank through you, Mr. Chairman, maybe have you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Devereaux respond to the details particular to that question. Thank you, Chairman: Mr. Rumbolt. Mr. Chairman.

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Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. In terms of accounting, there was a Chairman. Mr. Devereaux just requirement to bring forward a non-cash mentioned the Kivalliq energy appropriation to recognize that capital management program and I believe in investment made by the third-party. The June we carried over, over $24 million reasoning we had to undertake it in a for that particular project. I’m just prior year and then have the carryover wondering: why did your department was probably just around the timing of need to carry over so much funding and the signing of the contract with this what is the current status of the Kivalliq particular energy management firm energy management program? Thank because we needed the appropriation in you, Mr. Chairman. order to sign the contract, although we knew that the implementation and the Chairman: Minister Kusugak. recognition of that capital expense wouldn’t be until the subsequent fiscal Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. year. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. If I could ask you to allow Mr. Devereaux to respond to that line of Chairman: Mr. Rumbolt. questioning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Mr. Devereaux. Chairman. I’ll change the subject again. On page 11 of my opening comments I Mr. Devereaux: Thank you, Mr. talked about section 8 of the integrated Chairman. I thank the member for the bilateral agreement between the federal question. As indicated, the current status and territorial governments respecting on the Kivalliq energy management the Investing in Canada Infrastructure project is we are currently in the Plan. I also stated that it requires the implementation and construction phase. Government of Nunavut to provide We assume that for the remainder of information by November 30 of 2018, 2018 and all of 2019 we will undergo all which is not far away. of those implementation measures across the various facilities. Once completed, I am aware that the City of Iqaluit did we will move into the first year or two of access federal funding from this monitoring in terms of the anticipated program. I wonder what other specific energy savings on that. projects have been approved for funding under the Investing in Canada The described carryover that we brought Infrastructure Plan. Thank you, Mr. forward earlier in the year was a non- Chairman. cash appropriation. This particular project is a third party funded project Chairman: Minister Kusugak. where the energy management firm that we went through an open procurement Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. process to engage put up the capital Chairman. From my understanding, none investment and then through the at this time, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. guaranteed savings over a 10-year period, they recoup that capital Chairman: Mr. Rumbolt. investment.

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Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. (interpretation) When the Department of Chairman. If there is none, then are you Community and Government Services able to inform us what proposals have does their planning, to what extent do been submitted by the Government of they review the ICSPs for the 2019-2020 Nunavut in order to access this funding? fiscal year? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This summer, Chairman. We’re currently working on for example, we went to every hamlet to that list and that list should be complete hear what they foresee and need in terms before November 30. Thank you, Mr. of infrastructure and community Chairman. requirements. All the hamlets were visited to have their priorities reviewed. Chairman: Mr. Rumbolt. The plans are moved forward by a committee which has membership from Mr. Rumbolt: Thank you, Mr. hamlets, our department staff, and the Chairman. One final question, when this (interpretation ends) Nunavut list is complete, will it be made available Association of Municipalities to us regular MLAs for review and so (interpretation) and mayors are included. that we can have an idea of what projects This committee then reviews the entire you’re trying to move forward? Thank requests to see which community you, Mr. Chairman. projects will be prioritized. They prioritize the projects based on health Chairman: Minister Kusugak. and safety, emergency preparedness, and so on and they do that following the Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. procedures. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. As soon as that list is ready, I will be more than happy to share it with Chairman: Ms. Towtongie. all my colleagues. Mr. Chairman, we will ensure that it is in time for the Ms. Towtongie (interpretation): Thank federal government. That November 30 you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the may fluctuate, but as soon as we have minister for a proper response. Looking that available, I would be more than at the document, I do not see where happy to share it with the Members of Chesterfield Inlet is mentioned here. The this House. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. document indicates which communities are getting the gas tax revenue. Looking Chairman: Thank you. Next name on at the other document, Chesterfield Inlet the list, Ms. Towtongie. is mentioned under total block funding. However, in other documents it is rare to Ms. Towtongie (interpretation): Thank see the community of Chesterfield Inlet you, Mr. Chairman. My question is mentioned or listed, and then I see that regarding the hamlet’s integrated in 2016 Rankin Inlet will be getting a community sustainability plan, or fire truck, but 10 years later in 2026, (interpretation ends) ICSP. Chesterfield Inlet will be getting one.

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I know you have to treat all the hamlets placed in the capital plan? I’ll ask that equally, but does Chesterfield Inlet have first, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. the newest equipment? We rarely see anything new going into Chesterfield Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Inlet in this plan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That’s my final question. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All the Chairman: Minister Kusugak. hamlets get operating funds. They get that funding and there was a raise in the Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): money they received this summer. All Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know some the hamlets get different amounts and communities feel left behind and it’s they got different raises. NAM is impossible to provide for all the completing its review of the hamlet communities at the same time. We funding requests. Once that is haven’t forgotten about Chesterfield completed, we will get a better idea as to Inlet. We are even planning now about how much more money will be available the water supply for the community of to the hamlets. Chesterfield Inlet and there will be an announcement soon on a timeline. When the hamlets request extra money However, we work together with all the for infrastructure and vehicles, it’s hamlets to prioritize their needs, Mr. usually done through the (interpretation Chairman. Thank you. ends) ICSP (interpretation) and we look for extra money for them through that. Chairman: Thank you. Next name on With regard to what Ms. Towtongie was my list, Mr. Kaernerk. asking about, we deal with it through the (interpretation ends) ICSP. Mr. Kaernerk (interpretation): Thank (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. you, Mr. Chairman. Good day, minister. Chairman. I really want to ask some good questions, but I probably won’t. Let me Chairman: Mr. Kaernerk. start with your capital requests and small capital. Mr. Kaernerk (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank you for I would like you to look at our hamlet. explaining that. The Hamlet of Hall The hamlet can never catch up to the Beach has financial difficulties and they capital requirements. I said briefly that have debts. Even though that is the the hamlet’s finance officer is living in situation, they serve the community well the hamlet office. A problem occurred in and I see that with the work they’re the spring due to mould. As usual they trying to do. tried to ask for money to upgrade their buildings because they are quite old. The When hamlets have requests like that hamlet doesn’t have enough money to and they have received money from the keep up with the demand. government, can you give the hamlets more authority? If their building cannot With respect to your capital estimates, be upgraded and they want to purchase can’t the municipal buildings for staff be another building, I believe some of the

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1506 rules prohibit the hamlets from doing Let me go back to the document. The that. Whenever they want to purchase capital estimates that were provided to capital items, not just in Hall Beach but the standing committee… . Let me use all the hamlets in Nunavut, can they be this as an example. The city got approval given more authority along those lines? for funds under an agreement. I believe Let me ask that question. Thank you, we can do the same thing for the hamlets Mr. Chairman. under the ICIP funding. Why did the city get approval for their dump proposal? Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The hamlets own their buildings like their offices and Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): parking garages. We have seen some Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I hamlets buying buildings according to understood your question, you were the authority they have. If they feel they asking if the hamlet can request money can afford to buy a new building based from the government for that purpose on their finances, they can do so. Thank and that’s how I responded to your you, Mr. Chairman. question. However, if they work through government, they can apply for Chairman: Mr. Kaernerk. assistance. I don’t want you to misunderstand that. If I misunderstood Mr. Kaernerk (interpretation): Thank your question, I regret that. you once again, Mr. Chairman. Let me move on to something else. Thank you Perhaps Mr. Devereaux can respond to for explaining that. Under the Canada- the question more clearly, if it’s okay Nunavut agreement for infrastructure, with you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. such as buildings and major projects, it includes upgrading of roads and marine Chairman: Mr. Devereaux. infrastructure. Can the hamlets get funding for docking facilities under this Mr. Devereaux: Thank you, Mr. agreement? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. I thank the member for the question. Hamlets are able to pursue Chairman: Minister Kusugak. federal infrastructure capital funding through the various programs, whether Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): it’s the New Building Canada Fund or Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The hamlets the recent ICIP program. can’t do that under this agreement, but we can look further into it. Thank you, The federal government, in that bilateral Mr. Chairman. agreement, wanted to have one single source client to deal with and that is the Chairman: Mr. Kaernerk. Government of Nunavut, but it certainly doesn’t prohibit hamlets from pursuing Mr. Kaernerk (interpretation): Thank capital project funding through those you, Mr. Chairman. That’s unfortunate. programs. The example with the City of Iqaluit, they would have had to present

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1507 that capital request via that bilateral they want to make a request for agreement that the Government of infrastructure? I’ll just use November as Nunavut has with the federal an example. If they made a submission government. in November and they’re requesting to have a particular project funded 100 As the minister had mentioned, we’re percent, when would be the deadline? currently looking at the infrastructure Thank you, Mr. Chairman. plan over the course of the next few months which will outline potential Chairman: Minister Kusugak. future projects under ICIP. Through that examination, I don’t doubt that there will Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): be a number of municipal infrastructure Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Those projects being considered. Hamlets requests have to be properly planned. If would bring those municipal capital the Government of Nunavut has to requests forward the same way they do provide some money as part of the for projects that would be funded 100 requests, we want to receive the percent through the GN. That applications before Christmas so that we mechanism is still there for hamlets. can start planning in April. The sooner we see those requests the sooner we can Some of the federal funding programs make the plan for the upcoming fiscal that were mentioned, whether it’s the year. That’s the deadline that we have. Clean Water and Wastewater Fund or Thank you, Mr. Chairman. the New Building Canada Fund or the recent Investing in Canada program, the Chairman: Mr. Kaernerk. federal government does have certain program eligibility categories. We have Mr. Kaernerk (interpretation): Thank seen that marine infrastructure, as you you once again, Mr. Chairman. That’s had mentioned, was recently approved useful information for all the hamlets in for and Iqaluit, so it is an Nunavut. eligible category. I’ll move on to a totally different subject. Each department brings forward their You indicated that the fibre capital requests that may be eligible for infrastructure project would be a multi- federal funding and they get prioritized. year program. You said that you will That’s really what would be reflective in spend $5 million over several years. You the plan that we have to deliver to the seemed to indicate that only two federal government in the next few communities will get fibre infrastructure, months. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. and then we found out it will now be four communities. Maybe the scope of Chairman: Mr. Kaernerk. work changed that it went from two communities to four. Can you explain Mr. Kaernerk (interpretation): Thank that? This will be my last question for you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank you for now. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. explaining that further. If the hamlets wanted to make a request, do you have Chairman: Minister Kusugak. timelines set? Is there a deadline should

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Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Chairman: Ms. Kamingoak. Thank you for that question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for giving me an Ms. Kamingoak: Thank you, Mr. opportunity to speak. At the beginning Chairman. Thank you for your response. of the fibre infrastructure project or at Moving on, on page 3 of your opening the beginning of any project, we begin remarks you say that there are going to the planning. At that time we wanted to be arena upgrades across Nunavut. Can start with Iqaluit and Kimmirut or Cape you elaborate on that one a little more? Dorset. From the information that we Thank you, Mr. Chairman. gathered, we know that Quebec are also working on that. Chairman: Minister Kusugak.

If you can imagine Hudson Bay, we Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. would install the fibre optic cable going Chairman. Just let me get to that tab. to the west, then go to Nunavik and then to the Atlantic Ocean. If you could Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you visualize the map, since we saw the for your patience. Mr. Chairman, there routes of the planned implementation, are 11 communities eligible for we were looking at including Sanikiluaq upgrades, including Arctic Bay, Baker because it would connect us from Lake, Cape Dorset, Chesterfield Inlet, Greenland and southern Canada. If Clyde River, Gjoa Haven, Hall Beach, something happened to the connection, Kimmirut, Kugaaruk, Naujaat, and then there would be another area where Qikiqtarjuaq. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. we could reconnect to, which is called a redundancy. We’re now looking at four Chairman: Thank you. The next name communities following developments in on my list, Mr. Qirngnuq. this area. That’s what we envision. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome to the Chairman: Thank you. The next name minister and his officials. on my list, Ms. Kamingoak. In response to the member from Ms. Kamingoak: Thank you, Mr. Sanikiluaq, under repairs, the old hamlet Chairman. Welcome, minister and your office in Kugaaruk was purchased for officials. $120,000. I’m sure it is being used by the school and the minister is aware of You said that you will be purchasing a that. Once the school is done with the fire truck for Kugluktuk in 2019. Will building, are there any plans to use it for that also be coming off the sealift of something else? Mr. Chairman, I’m 2019? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. asking that for clarification. Thank you.

Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak.

Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Chairman. Yes, that is the plan, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I didn’t quite Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. get his question. What was he asking for

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1509 clarification on? Perhaps he can tell me sure that we will get that information. which building he is referring to. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Moving on to another subject, on page 5 it states that they have identified the Chairman: Mr. Qirngnuq. communities that will be receiving fire trucks and in what year. Are you going Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank to be upgrading all of the fire trucks in you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Nunavut so that they’re in good working Under CGS Municipal Buildings, order? Repairs and Equipment, Kugaaruk purchase of old hamlet office of For example, when our school burnt $120,000, (interpretation) I was asking down in 2017 in extremely cold weather, for clarification. It is the hamlet’s old it was minus 65 degrees Celsius at that office that has been turned into a school. time and the fire truck couldn’t be used In 2019-2020, what is going to happen to because the water was frozen. Are you that building once the new school is going to be upgrading the fire truck so completed? Are you looking at turning that they can be used in cold climates? I that old office into something else? I hope I was understandable, Mr. hope that was clear. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Chairman. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The fire Thank you. Thank you, my colleague, trucks will be modified to perform in for clarifying your question. It wasn’t on cold climates. I don’t know if they will purpose, but sometimes I don’t still function at minus 65 degrees understand. Celsius, but they would have to be modified so that they can operate in the The old office building that you’re cold climate. That’s our goal. When referring to will be used by the there is a fire in the north, you would government. It will remain a GN asset. want your fire truck to be operable in We will consult with the various cold or warm temperatures. They will be organizations and decide what it is going modifying the fire trucks and we do to be used for. It may possibly be a work closely with them. We want to community learning centre or an office. make sure that they are modified to We haven’t made a decision yet at this function in our northern climate. Thank time on what it will be used for, but we you, Mr. Chairman. won’t be surplusing it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Mr. Qirngnuq.

Chairman: Mr. Qirngnuq. Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank the Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank minister. I’m not sure whether this you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank the vehicle will be able to be modified to minister for that proper response. I’m work in the cold climate. I know that all

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1510 kinds of vehicles are shipped up from Mr. Devereaux: Thank you, Mr. southern parts of Canada, but we would Chairman. I thank the member for the like to be sure that these vehicles are question. If I understood the question adapted to the cold climate, so we need correctly, it was in relation to the City of to be well prepared. That is just a Iqaluit’s approval for a solid waste comment, not a question. Thank you, facility. In that particular funding Mr. Chairman. application, the federal government committed to 75 percent of the capital Chairman: Thank you. Minister funding and the City of Iqaluit brought Kusugak. forward the remaining 25 percent. The GN had no direct investment that would Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): have been in an appropriation through Thank you. Though it was just a the House. comment, I would like to provide a reply. In Kugaaruk they will be getting a The City of Iqaluit’s 25 percent portion, new fire hall in 2020 that is large enough I can’t speak to where within their city to house the fire truck, which is good finances that they targeted that 25 timing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for percent. Certainly, as the committee is allowing me to comment further. aware, CGS does provide capital contribution funding every year to the Chairman: Thank you. Next name on city and they build up that reserve and my list, Ms. Angnakak. then they decide what their priorities are to how to allocate that. We didn’t Ms. Angnakak: Thank you, Mr. provide a direct contribution to that Chairman. Welcome. Good afternoon. specific project that the 25 percent portion would have come from the City On July 10, 2018 the federal government of Iqaluit. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. announced the federal contribution of $26.2 million under the Investing in Chairman: Ms. Angnakak. Canada Infrastructure Plan for solid waste management improvements. I’m Ms. Angnakak: Thank you, Mr. wondering if the minister can tell us how Chairman. I’m just wondering: did the much funding the GN put towards this city come to you at any time and ask for initiative in support. Thank you, Mr. help for that 25 percent? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman.

Chairman: Thank you. Minister Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Kusugak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Not that I am aware of. Chairman. If I could have Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Devereaux respond to that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Ms. Angnakak.

Chairman: Mr. Devereaux. Ms. Angnakak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As Mr. Devereaux alluded to,

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1511 the GN provides block funding for the The city is really growing and looking at City of Iqaluit. Is Iqaluit the only the cost of running our city, there’s community in Nunavut that receives nothing that is getting cheaper. I think block funding? Thank you, Mr. the current agreement is going to expire Chairman. in March of 2019. I wonder: has the department gone to the city now to talk Chairman: Minister Kusugak. to them about new amounts? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the question, Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Ms. Angnakak. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The City of Iqaluit, like every Chairman: Ms. Angnakak. other municipality in Nunavut, is constantly asking for more funds, but Ms. Angnakak: Thank you, Mr. every year the city’s increase was Chairman. Have these block funding $600,000. They just signed a new five- amounts ever gone up or down over the year deal in mid-August of this year, Mr. years? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. Thank you.

Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Ms. Angnakak.

Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Ms. Angnakak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, they went up last year, Chairman. Thank you for that Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. information. What kinds of conditions Chairman. are placed on the city in order to receive this funding? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Ms. Angnakak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Ms. Angnakak: From what I understand, I think it’s at $4 million. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. What kind of an increase did they Chairman. The infrastructure dollars receive from the last time? Thank you, have to be used for infrastructure and Mr. Chairman. follow the guidelines, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Ms. Angnakak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: $600,000, Mr. Chairman, as I understand it. Thank you, Ms. Angnakak: Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chairman. Chairman. I’m not all familiar with what constitutes a community to be on a tax- Chairman: Thank you, Ms. Angnakak. based system. Perhaps you can enlighten me, but I do wonder if the minister can Ms. Angnakak: Thank you, Mr. tell me if there are any other Chairman. Has the city ever come communities that might be close to forward to say that this is not enough? becoming on a tax-based system or are

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1512 we the only one for the next foreseeable City of Iqaluit is not included. I’m future. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. wondering if you have any comments on that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In terms of the communities Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Mr. Chairman, I that want to become a tax-based think the City of Iqaluit has done very community, there is none at this time or well compared to the other none that I see in the foreseeable future, municipalities around Nunavut. They Mr. Chairman. Thank you. have received $4 million every year in infrastructure dollars. The rest of the Chairman: Ms. Angnakak. Nunavut communities have to go through this budgeting system to try to Ms. Angnakak: Thank you, Mr. fight for their infrastructure. The City of Chairman. The reason I ask is it is to do Iqaluit has received, I believe, around with block funding. What do you think $700 million over the last five to eight are the advantages when it comes to years on infrastructure. I think the city receiving funding to be on a tax-based has done very well, Mr. Chairman. They system versus a different kind of should and they continue to fight for system? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. more, so does the rest of Nunavut. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Ms. Angnakak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Mr. Chairman, having been a mayor in the fine Ms. Angnakak: Thank you, Mr. community of Rankin Inlet, there is no Chairman. Well, I think we have the benefit for the smaller municipalities biggest population, so we should be, in with the population sizes that we have to my own opinion. The $4 million still has become a tax-based community. Mr. to go through the House regardless, so Chairman, I’ll leave it at that. Thank it’s not like we’re doing it on the outside you, Mr. Chairman. or that there are any real special favours. I just wanted to bring that to your Chairman: Ms. Angnakak. attention.

Ms. Angnakak: Thank you, Mr. Like you said, everybody could use Chairman. Perhaps there are not enough more money, but as a department, do good reasons to say because sometimes I you ever look at how big each think that the City of Iqaluit is not community is growing and at what rate included because they are tax-based, and to keep up with the amounts that the sometimes I feel that it’s an excuse that community accesses? Thank you, Mr. is used by government. Chairman.

For example, if you’re going to do a Chairman: Minister Kusugak. solid waste management system analysis and you do an RFP, a lot of times the

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Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Thank you. Next name on Chairman. We go through a review in my list, your second line of questioning, terms of what kind of funding we can Mr. Quassa. provide with the funds that we have based on community sizes. Mr. Quassa (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I forgot we started When you talk about Iqaluit being the yesterday and I thought this was my first largest community and therefore should line of questioning, but it’s a get the largest share, that stands to be (interpretation ends) new day. debated amongst our colleagues in this room. Through the municipal association (interpretation) Earlier my colleague and other people out there, I have heard mentioned the issue of dust. Can you arguments when you say, “Well, they explain what this dust suppressant is and still have to account for the $4 million what it’s made of? I would first like to through this legislature.” Well, other find out exactly what it is. It has been municipalities would love to have that tried in a number of communities, as you problem, Ms. Angnakak. have noted. (interpretation ends) What exactly is it? (interpretation) Thank you. It depends on what side of the fence you’re sitting on. It’s very hard Chairman: Minister Kusugak. sometimes to sit where I’m sitting to try to figure out how best to lay it so that it Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): supports as many people as it can. Thank Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is called you for the opportunity, Mr. Chairman. Dustop. It is a dust suppressant. It is made of calcium chloride, which is a Chairman: Ms. Angnakak. salt-based product, to say it shortly, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Ms. Angnakak: Thank you. Maybe you can enlighten my last question. Why Chairman: Mr. Quassa. don’t we do block funding to each municipality? If you could just enlighten Mr. Quassa: (interpretation): Thank me with that. That is my last question. you. Yes, when we are surrounded by Thank you. salt, we have to buy salt in the form of calcium. Almost all communities are Chairman: Minister Kusugak. surrounded by salt. I have a better understanding of what it is now. How Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. much money has the Department of Chairman. I’m assuming you’re talking Community and Government Services about capital. It’s just the capacity to spent in testing this as a pilot project? plan and design projects in each Thank you, Mr. Chairman. municipality. The municipalities don’t have the staff to do planning and design Chairman: Minister Kusugak. of capital. Our department does that. That’s one of the few other reasons why Hon. Lorne Kusugak: (interpretation): it’s done the way it is. Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Chairman. department provides operational funds to

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1514 run the hamlets and they in turn buy the For that reason, do they look at dust suppressant. It comes from the alternatives outside of Nunavut? Have hamlets’ funding, not ours. Thank you, they looked at other options that are used Mr. Chairman. outside of Nunavut? The reason I’m asking that question is because I have Chairman: Mr. Quassa. heard that Yukon College was able to pave a road at a much lower cost than Mr. Quassa (interpretation): Thank you, (interpretation ends) the normal process. Mr. Chairman. I think I understand that (interpretation) They found a method at it comes out of the hamlets’ funding. Is a much lower cost. There are such things it up to the municipalities to decide how as that and that’s why I’m asking that much money to spend on dust control? question, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the Department of Community and municipalities decide how much Dustop Government Services is always looking they would like to buy, Mr. Chairman. for better dust suppressants. Thank you. Dust is a real problem in all the Chairman: Mr. Quassa. communities. I have a breathing problem sometimes and I have descendants who Mr. Quassa (interpretation): Thank you, have breathing problems. When there is Mr. Chairman. I also thank you for that too much dust outside, you cannot go response. Even when Dustop is used, it outdoors even if you want to, especially still gets very dusty. That’s obvious. Has for the older people. They are always CGS ever considered looking at any walking outside if they are capable, but other new products? the dust keeps them from going outdoors. (interpretation ends) Ultimately (interpretation) we all are heading in the I think all of us live in communities right direction when we pave roads. We where there is a dust problem. We’re always hear the desire for this and not always looking at ways to reduce the being able to deliver on it. I wonder if amount of dust. There is training new products are out there that are better available on how to apply the dust suited as it will be a while before we get suppressants. When it is applied paved roads. We know that even if we properly, it is very effective in wanted to pave the roads in our suppressing dust for a period of time. communities, Community and When we have to go places, we should Government Services says it’s not drive too fast because we have a role impossible because it costs too much. to play in it as well. The communities That is what I expect them to say all the are getting more and more vehicles and time. four-wheelers, which is why we cannot keep up.

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1515

Mr. Chairman, we are looking at more every year. Some communities get effective dust suppressants that are also littered with blown debris from landfills, more affordable for the communities. not just to the community but also into We are continually working on that. the ocean, such as (interpretation ends) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. plastic bags, (interpretation) shopping bags, and so on. Chairman: Mr. Quassa. The communities ask, especially Mr. Quassa (interpretation): Thank you, Igloolik, for fencing for solid waste sites. Mr. Chairman. Those of us living in the Can they get funding to start installing communities are aware that roads are not fencing? I want that clarified. There are the only problem. Where they have many communities along with Igloolik runways near the community, they also that talk about getting fencing. I just produce a lot of dust. As we know, it’s want that clarified first, Mr. Chairman. not just roads; it’s also airports. I’m just Thank you. pointing that out. Chairman: Thank you. Yes, we do see a I’ll move on to another subject, lot of garbage even out on the mainland (interpretation ends) solid waste nowadays. Minister Kusugak. management, (interpretation) as it’s called in English. When we’re talking Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): about that issue, it’s explained here in Thank you for asking that question, Mr. your letter of response on (interpretation Quassa. Solid waste management is ends) solid waste management extremely important and it’s becoming (interpretation) that they have reached more and more important. their maximum capacity and they are aging. Solid waste sites are running out of room and one of our main priorities is to have The Department of Community and solid waste sites managed properly. I Government Services is doing upgrades spoke about the plans. Everyone is on 13 solid waste facilities and they’re looking at how solid waste sites will be now working on 12 of them. Three designed. They need liners so that communities are able to get funding now contaminants cannot go into the ground. from the federal government and the They also need fencing so that the Government of Nunavut. The split is 75 garbage won’t blow in the wind and percent by the federal government and animals won’t be getting into the dump 25 percent by the Government of sites. All these things are being looked Nunavut, and that is how it set. There at. has been $136 million identified under the (interpretation ends) Small The planning will be done for Igloolik in Communities Fund. 2020-21. I am aware that it needs fencing and that will be included. All of (interpretation) The reason for stated that the solid waste sites that are being is because there are communities with planned now will all need fencing. solid waste sites that are completely Thank you, Mr. Chairman. open and debris blow around in the wind

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Chairman: Mr. Quassa. Mr. Quassa (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That’s very good to hear. Mr. Quassa (interpretation): Thank you, I will be asking for more information on Mr. Chairman. Thank you, minister. I which communities will be able to get clearly understand that now and the that type of infrastructure. It will be communities will look forward to that interesting to hear because we expect because it will be a huge benefit to us. such things. We know today that when our solid wastes are burnt in our Also on the issue of solid waste sites, to communities, they produce a lot of say incinerators in real Inuktitut, smoke. The smoke reaches vast ittitaliurutiit, that’s not the exact term, distances and it smells bad. I think but I’m comparing them to fireplaces. incinerators produce less smoke and they Communities also talk about should be emitting smaller amounts of incinerators. When will we be able to smoke. That’s just a comment, Mr. look at them? It doesn’t necessarily have Chairman. to be a huge incinerator, as incinerators are smaller sizes now. I don’t know the Moving on, I don’t know if this has exact term in Inuktitut, but I know the anything to do with your department, but interpreters already know the term. in our community of Igloolik near the airport, there are many containers of I don’t know exactly how much contaminated soil. If you ever go to the incinerators cost, but they don’t airport and on your way to the necessarily have to be huge. They can be community, there are bales and bales of small and still be adequate. Has the contaminated soil that have been sitting Department of Community and there for many years now. My first Government Services considered using question on that is if you are aware of it, incinerators? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Minister Kusugak.

Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Thank you. The bales are not owned by my colleague, for asking those questions CGS, so I can’t comment on that. Thank because they are good to hear. Yes, you, Mr. Chairman. we’re also considering them. When we’re talking about solid waste sites and Chairman: Thank you. That was your possible landfill sites, we are also last question, Mr. Quassa. We will take a considering incinerators for each ten-minute break. Thank you. community to burn garbage. They wouldn’t be big, but they would try to >>Committee recessed at 15:01 and accommodate the size for each resumed at 15:18 community’s needs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Welcome back, committee. The minister is waving his hand, so he’s Chairman: Mr. Quassa. got something to say. Minister Kusugak.

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Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Mr. Netser. Chairman. I was just trying to say “hi.” I’m kidding. Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank the minister >>Laughter for that response. Has the old nursing station in Naujaat been released to your Mr. Chairman, I had told our colleague department? It seems that it would be from Sanikiluaq I would give him an demolished. If your department is update as to which six communities are holding it now, my first question on that considered South Baffin. If I may is when it is set for demolition. Thank provide that to you now, Mr. Chairman, you. they are, in no particular order: Cape Dorset, Hall Beach, Igloolik, Kimmirut, Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Pangnirtung, and Sanikiluaq. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity to Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): clarify. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can’t say right now if we have taken over the old Chairman: Thank you, minister. The nursing station in Naujaat or if it is still next name on my list, Mr. Netser. under the Department of Health. However, we haven’t made any plans to Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, demolish it yet. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chairman, for recognizing me again. Chairman. Thank you. I don’t have many more questions to ask. Let me ask the minister Chairman: Mr. Netser. first of all about old buildings that are owned by the government, which are Mr. Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. managed by the Department of The other question I have to the minister Community and Government Services. is there are two portable schools in Are buildings that are no longer being Naujaat. I believe they were held by used still managed by the Department of Arctic College. These buildings are in Community and Government Services? excellent condition and with the chronic Thank you. housing shortages and staff housing shortages that the hamlets have… . I Chairman: Minister Kusugak. understand that the hamlet in Naujaat is requesting to get those buildings. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): (interpretation) I would like to ask the Thank you. Yes, that would be the case, minister if he has heard anything about but what the buildings were used for this matter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. would be identified. If they have not been released by the departments that Chairman: Minister Kusugak. were using them, they remain under their departments. If they release them to us, Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): then we start to deal with what is going Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand to be done with a particular building in that those buildings are still under Arctic accordance with the rules. Thank you, College. That’s where they are at right Mr. Chairman. I hope that was clear. now, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1518

Chairman: Mr. Netser. Chairman: Minister Kusugak.

Mr. Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): (interpretation) Thank you, minister. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we want (interpretation ends) My last question is the new replacement vehicles to have regarding the sewage lagoon in Naujaat. adequate space. Thank you, Mr. (interpretation) There was a plan to do Chairman. some work on it last year or the year before. I would like to ask for an update Chairman: Thank you. The next name on that, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. on my list, Mr. Main.

Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good day, minister. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): (interpretation ends) Happy Halloween. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like Mr. Seeley to provide an update on this (interpretation) My first question will be matter if it’s okay with you. Thank you, about fire halls. Both of my communities Mr. Chairman. of Whale Cove and Arviat expect a fire hall. Is there anything written down as to Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Seeley. which communities will be getting new fire halls? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Seeley: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister. I thank the member Chairman: Minister Kusugak. for the question. The projects in Naujaat did proceed over the summer. We can Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): certainly provide the member with a Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Right now more detailed summary of exactly what there is nothing indicating which was completed over the summer and the communities would get new fire halls. full term of that project. Thank you, Mr. With respect to the communities that the Chairman. member mentioned, I can tell him that there will be a review starting in April Chairman: Mr. Netser. 2019 to locate lots in Whale Cove and Arviat for the new fire halls. In April Mr. Netser: Thank you. You can send 2019 the lots will be inspected to make me a letter or something pertaining to sure they are adequate for the fire halls. that file. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I thought that was my last question, but Chairman: Mr. Main. I’ve just got one more final one, Mr. Chairman, regarding the fire trucks that Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, will be delivered to these communities. Mr. Chairman. That is very good to hear. (interpretation) Mr. Chairman, the old fire trucks are being replaced with new Earlier one of my colleagues asked about ones. Will the old fire halls be adequate the (interpretation ends) ICIP, Investing to house the new fire trucks? Thank you, in Canada Plan. (interpretation) I would Mr. Chairman. like to get more information. The

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1519 minister stated earlier that it would be Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): good if the communities could make Thank you. I think it would be best for their proposals before Christmas. What companies that are interested in kinds of proposals are they supposed to producing energy to have dialogue with give you? I would like to know how long the QEC and those types of companies. the proposal has to be and how much of The door is not closed to small a study they have to do beforehand, as businesses that want to make money out well as where they would send it to. of producing energy through that fund. I Thank you, Mr. Chairman. think you would understand my response if I put it that way. Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman.

Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Chairman: Mr. Main. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The proposals that we get for their needs are Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, always different, but such information as Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I’ll the purpose and how much it would cost switch gears again. I’m trying to get would have to be in the proposal. The through my questions as quickly as communities that want to apply know possible. how to fill out those forms and what information is required. If they are not In your letter dated yesterday, I’m just sure, the Department of Community and curious about this parking garage Government Services has an office that construction program. I understand that can assist hamlets on those matters. this program is under development, but Thank you, Mr. Chairman. what is the concept behind this parking garage construction program? It’s a huge Chairman: Mr. Main. need in my home community of Arviat right now. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman. Thank you, minister. The hamlets have to submit proposals before Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Christmas. Along the same lines, I want to ask about private businesses. This is Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): not about Internet technology, but it’s All the hamlets are building parking about generating energy. It’s called the garages. We hear it from you and we (interpretation ends) Arctic Energy Fund hear it directly from the hamlets. As we (interpretation) and there’s $17.5 million can see through the integrated available annually. Will private community sustainability plans, there’s a businesses be given an opportunity to shortage of parking garages for vehicles. apply for funding to generate energy so I think we have to look at how to catch that we won’t be so dependent on diesel up with the amount of garages that are fuel in Nunavut? Thank you, Mr. needed and how we can work with the Chairman. hamlets to reach that goal. We’re trying to figure out how we’re going to do that. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. We need to find out how much money is

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1520 required for parking garages because Chairman: Minister Kusugak. each community is different. Some communities have raised their own Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): money that they earn interest on and Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s regretful other communities don’t have any that Whale Cove had to go through that money. We have to see the best route to and it’s regretful when communities take for that. That’s what the letter is have to go through that, which is not on talking about. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. purpose.

Chairman: Mr. Main The water filtration system in Whale Cove has been set up so that it can run Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, during the winter. We’re thinking that it Mr. Chairman. Thank you, minister. Let should run until spring. There are me turn to something else again. The usually fewer boil water advisories in the residents of Whale Cove have been wintertime anyway. We’re thinking that experiencing water issues for the past the work will begin in April. We don’t four years; (interpretation ends) every want to see any boil water advisories in summer, a boil water advisory for the the coming year until the new water community of Whale Cove. I know the treatment plant is completed in Whale department did put in a temporary water Cove. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. treatment plant and I know that the tender is out for a permanent or the Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Main. scoping or design on a permanent water treatment plant. Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is very inconvenient. I I’m just concerned about the period from thank the minister for recognizing that. now until when we can get the It’s very inconvenient for the people of permanent plant up and running. The Whale Cove. filter box that’s the temporary water treatment plant is a sea can type system. Looking at all of Nunavut, how many I’m going to quote from the Whale Cove communities experience boil water integrated community sustainability advisories or have problems with their plan. “This year a temporary Filterboxx water supplies today? Thank you, Mr. WTP was put in place, however there Chairman. were adverse water sample results, water output issues and system deficiencies. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Basically the system as designed couldn’t meet the demands of the Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): community.” Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank the member for asking that question. Not (interpretation) Has there been any very many communities over the last consideration done on that matter? I few years have had boil water would like to hear from the minister advisories. Some boil water advisories what the residents of Whale Cove can take longer to be lifted while others expect to be done for the coming year. don’t take very long. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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This year Whale Cove had a boil water Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Devereaux. advisory almost all summer. Sanikiluaq also had boil water advisory. Although Mr. Devereaux: Thank you, Mr. Rankin Inlet is on an utilidor system, Chairman. I thank the member for the they had a boil water advisory this question. If I understand the question spring and summer due to high turbidity correctly, it was in relation to the levels at the water source. Those are the government’s capital planning process communities that had boil water around major capital projects and the advisories. Sometimes they don’t last for undertaking of business cases in addition very long, but other times it takes longer. to the standard substantiation sheets that It also happened in Iqaluit. That’s the get shared and how that unfolded with way it is. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. this particular project.

Chairman: Mr. Main. Where we’re at today is coming forward to seek the money to proceed in the Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, construction, knowing that the Mr. Chairman. I will move on to another government has already appropriated a subject that was brought up yesterday, sum of money to complete a design fibre optics. phase. Prior to the appropriation that occurred in the last year for the $6 Looking at the substantiation sheet that million, which a portion came from was provided, I would like to get federal funding and a portion came from clarification on (interpretation ends) the the GN, I think at that point in time I first page, “Business case required. Yes. wasn’t here to speak to that capital No. No.” (interpretation) I’m not entirely request, but the substantiation around the sure and because I’m a new member, request for the $6 million to undertake I’m not very well versed in some areas. the design phase for fibre infrastructure However, according to my was being driven by, again, as we spoke understanding, if a project is going to about yesterday, the opportunity in the cost over $2 million, there has to be a marketplace to undertake the marine business case. (interpretation ends) I just engineering survey this summer in want to know why it says no on the conjunction with a similar type of substantiation sheet. undertaking that was going on with the KRG team in Nunavik. My apologies for jumping between languages. (interpretation) Thank you, When CGS came forward to put in the Mr. Chairman. capital request for the $6 million design money, at that point in time there would Chairman: Minister Kusugak. have been a substantiation that spoke about the project and where we were Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): hoping to go with the project. Thank Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. you, Mr. Chairman. Devereaux is probably better versed in this area, so I would appreciate it if you Chairman: Mr. Main. could allow him to respond, Mr. Chairman.

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Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Was Chairman. Sure, I think that that request a business case prepared, yes or no? could be fulfilled. We will provide it as (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. soon as we can make it available in the Chairman. very near future. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Mr. Main. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I could have Mr. Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Devereaux respond to that, Mr. Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I’m Chairman. Thank you. almost done with my questions on this project. Chairman: Mr. Devereaux. Also on the first stage it says the Mr. Devereaux: Thank you, Mr. estimates class “A.” Looking at the Chairman. I thank the member for the government’s own documentation it question. In terms of a business case, we says, “Class ‘A’ estimates are generally just completed the business case based on construction documents which probably about two months ago. It was are 100 percent complete.” And then one of the requirements as well to later on it says, “The accuracy of this advance the application to the federal estimate is generally within an government for the 75 percent funding, approximate range of 5 to 10 percent or the $90 million funding. That depending on the complexity of the business case has now been completed project and whether the project is new and has been shared with the federal construction or renovation.” government. It’s going through the process in Ottawa for consideration of I would like to understand: is this what approval of that funding from the we can expect with the total capital cost Treasury Board, which we are hoping here being $126 million that it will stay might be in place by February/March within that 5 to 10 percent range because 2019. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. it does say it’s a class “A” estimate? (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Mr. Main. Chairman.

Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Thank you for the answer. I’m relieved Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. to hear that the business case was Chairman. I thank my colleague for the prepared. Would members be able to be question. Yes, we are comfortable with provided with a copy of that business that figure staying within those case whenever convenient? parameters. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Main.

Chairman: Minister Kusugak.

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Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) I Chairman. We are anticipating that the guess a class “A” estimate, from my O&M will be offset by the use of the understanding, is supposed to be based services from the private sector. Thank on a realistic construction schedule and you, Mr. Chairman. accurate material and labour costs. I don’t want to get too far down into the Chairman: Final question No. 2, Mr. bottom of the ocean or into the weeds, Main. but in terms of the construction schedule, what is the construction Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, schedule and what are the set milestones Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) from where we are now until the What is the anticipated revenue from the anticipated completion? (interpretation) private sector? I’m just looking for a Thank you, Mr. Chairman. ballpark. On an annual basis, what is your anticipated revenue? Chairman: Minister Kusugak. (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Without getting into the Chairman: Minister Kusugak. bottom of the ocean, we anticipate… . Thank you for the question. We Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. anticipate summer 2020 to start and have Chairman. It’s kind of premature at this it completed by that late fall. Thank you, time to get into the details of that until Mr. Chairman. sometime next year. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Main. Chairman: Mr. Main. Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) My Mr. Main (interpreter): Thank you, Mr. final question on this is there is always Chairman. (interpretation ends) That was an O&M component to capital projects. I my final question; I just have two know this is a capital budget and we’re comments I wanted to end on. First of not approving an O&M component, but all, I would like to suggest that the given the department has clarified that department, maybe for next year, look at four communities will be serviced by changing the way the financial this project, what is the anticipated information is presented. I mean, the O&M that will be associated with way it is presented right now, federal servicing those four communities? Will funds are treated like they don’t belong it require additional staff? Will there be to us, but they do belong to us. That’s maintenance costs associated with this the way I feel. project? (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Using this fibre project as an example, we’re asked to appropriate a total of $30 Chairman: Minister Kusugak. million over the next two years for this project, but the true cost is over $120 million and we’re the ones who control

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1524 where those federal dollars go. That is first question is going to be regarding the just a suggestion. I feel it would be a South Baffin Energy Management more accurate, true representation of Project. what is actually being spent and what we’re actually being asked to approve. It Earlier the minister stated that the might be helpful for all projects, if the contract is going to be with a private department feels that would be firm, MCW, and that MCW would be beneficial. recouping the cost savings to fund this project. I was wondering if the minister A final comment about dust control, I’m may provide a little bit more detail about a resident of Arviat and I’m very happy how that works. Specifically the to say that we do not have a problem substantiation sheet indicates that the with dust because the hamlet is anticipated annual utility cost savings is incredibly good at dealing with it. I $1.8 million per year. How is that figure know that the Hamlet of Arviat has had worked into the contract if the actual some communication with other hamlets savings are above or below that mark? in terms of training and ways to help Thank you, Mr. Chairman. them out. If other communities are looking for a place to learn or, I think, as Chairman: Minister Kusugak. long as the hamlet is well compensated for their costs or time sacrificed, they Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. could help to spread the gospel of proper Chairman. Maybe I’ll have Mr. dust control. (interpretation) Thank you, Devereaux respond to that question. Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman: They are just comments. Do Chairman: Mr. Devereaux. you want to comment? Okay. I just have three more names and that’s all the Mr. Devereaux: Thank you, Mr. names we will be getting at this point. Chairman. I thank the member for the We have spent a while on this page. You question. To provide some clarity around will have time to ask questions in the the energy management projects that we House or you can go see the minister. I have undertaken and continue to ask the people who are going to ask undertake, in the Kivalliq region we questions… . You may ask same have gone ahead and we are in the questions that have been asked in a construction implementation phase for different way, please, I ask you not to. an energy management program in The next name on the list is Mr. which the capital investment has been Lightstone. undertaken by the third party contractor and the guaranteed savings would go Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. back to that contractor to repay the Chairman. I’ll keep it brief. I understand capital investment. that the minister and his staff have been answering our questions for a For the South Baffin Energy considerable length of time. Management Project, we have brought forward a strategy in which we would I only have two lines of questioning. The seek approximately 25 percent of the

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1525 capital investment from the GN and seek Project will be incorporating these approximately 75 percent from one of renewable energy solar systems? Thank the funding envelopes, the energy you, Mr. Chairman. envelope from the recently announced federal… . I just want to clarify that Chairman: Minister Kusugak. we’re not undertaking a contract for the South Baffin Energy Management Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. Project in the same manner. We’re Chairman. I appreciate the question and approaching this project with the I agree with you. I think our department intention that we, along with the federal is working very hard to make all of the government’s contribution, would pay government buildings that we are the capital investment at the very front responsible for more energy efficient. end. 100 percent of all energy savings The more efficient they are, the more going forward would be realized by the money we have to spend on other things Government of Nunavut. Thank you, than literally watching our money go out Mr. Chairman. the cracks in the windows and doors. It goes a long way. I appreciate your Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. concern over that.

Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. In terms of exactly the list of which Chairman. Thank you for that buildings and what, we do have that clarification. Before I began my information available. I can provide that questioning, I forgot to give a brief to you in the near future. We just don’t comment on the energy management have that detail in front of us, but I projects. I just wanted to personally would be more than happy to share it thank the minister for taking up these with you and our colleagues so you will initiatives. I understand the department’s have a good understanding of what efforts in putting forward these projects. window and which door are getting fixed I think it is extremely important for our where. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. territory to have these projects completed. The amount of anticipated Chairman: Mr. Lightstone. reduction in CO2 emissions is considerable, so thank you very much Mr. Lightstone: Thank you, Mr. for that. Chairman. The last question for this energy management project is going to My next question on the energy be regarding the schools in the South management project is, under the scope, Baffin. It’s my understanding that in there is a long list of energy efficiency many of the communities, the school are measures. The last item is renewable listed as the emergency gathering places energy and it’s listing solar domestic hot for the communities. water, solar air heating, and solar PV. I’m assuming that is photovoltaic, which I do believe that it would be extremely are energy-generating solar panels. important to incorporate these renewable energy systems or alternative power My question is: which buildings in the generating systems on these schools to South Baffin Energy Management ensure, in the event that a community

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1526 loses power, that there would be an lagoons. We are reviewing the sewage alternative source to ensure the safety of lagoons and solid waste sites in the the community members that are communities. I don’t have the gathering in those locations. I would just information on the status of his like to make a comment on that that I community’s sewage lagoon. Once I get hope that schools will be included in the that information, I’ll provide it to you buildings that are receiving those solar during the session, just not today. Thank systems. you, Mr. Chairman.

I’ll proceed to my next line of Chairman: Thank you. The last name questioning. It’s regarding roads in on my list, Ms. Towtongie. communities. My question is: who is responsible for paving roads in our Ms. Towtongie: Thank you, Mr. communities? Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for recognizing me again. I Chairman. only have two questions to the minister.

Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Earlier this year the Legislative Assembly approved $6.0 million in Hon. Lorne Kusugak: Thank you, Mr. funding for his department’s small Chairman. The communities are capital budget in its 2018-19 capital responsible for community roads. Thank estimates. Will the minister commit to you, Mr. Chairman. tabling a detailed breakdown in the Legislative Assembly after the end of the Chairman: Thank you. The next name 2018-19 fiscal year of how these funds on the list, second line of questioning, were spent? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Qirngnuq. Chairman: Minister Kusugak. Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for recognizing me. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): I have only one question. In the capital Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank estimates for one of my constituency my colleague for that question. Yes, I communities, I don’t see any line items will be able to provide this information in regard to sewage lagoons. They do to my colleagues in this House. Thank have a sewage lagoon in Taloyoak. I’m you, Mr. Chairman. not sure if it’s the same or if it’s a unique design because I don’t see any design on Chairman: Thank you. Ms. Towtongie. that. Can the minister elaborate on what kind of plans they have for that? I am Ms. Towtongie: Thank you, Mr. asking this question for clarification, Mr. Chairman. I thank the minister for his Chairman. Thank you. response. My second question is the Minor Capital Block Funding Policy Chairman: Thank you. Minister expired on March 31, 2018, and I would Kusugak. like to know what specific changes to the policy are being considered by your Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): I department and when a revised policy believe you are talking about sewage will be approved. It was in March of this

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1527 year that it ended. Thank you, Mr. Chairman: Thank you. Minister Chairman. That’s my final question. Kusugak, closing comments? Minister Kusugak. Chairman: Thank you. Minister Kusugak. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): Thank you very much for reviewing this. Hon. Lorne Kusugak (interpretation): I will provide all the information I said I Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, the was going to provide as soon as possible. policy you’re referring to expired last Thank you for asking questions on our year on March 31. At this time we are budget. That is the only way we can reviewing what needs to be amended and operate properly. what needs to be done, and I know that the stakeholders need more authority to (interpretation ends) I would like to deal with this. Our plan is to conclude thank the gentlemen beside me. They this evaluation in 2019-2020. Thank have worked tirelessly. We have spent you, Mr. Chairman. six months without a deputy minister and these two gentlemen beside me have Chairman: Thank you. We’re on been a tremendous help, and so too are Community and Government Services. the departmental staff throughout Local Government Services. Total Nunavut who have stepped up their Capital Expenditures. $29,875,000. game to make sure that our department Agreed? could run as smoothly as possible without the deputy minister, whom I Some Members: Agreed. introduced you to yesterday. She is not here. I hope she didn’t run away. Chairman: Thank you. Go to page J-5. Petroleum Products Division. Any >>Laughter questions? Petroleum Products Division. Total Capital Expenditures. I’m just kidding. She is upstairs. Thank $10,050,000. Agreed? you very much. Welcome, Constance, to our team, and I look forward to the rest Some Members: Agreed. of this session. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Thank you. Go to page J-2. Community and Government Services. >>Applause Total Capital Expenditures. $39,925,000. Agreed? Chairman: Thank you. I would like to thank you also for answering the Some Members: Agreed. committee’s questions when asked.

Chairman: Thank you. Do members Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the agree that we have concluded the witnesses out. Department of Community and Government Services? We will now take a five-minute break to set up for the next department. Some Members: Agreed.

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>>Committee recessed at 16:01 and The 44 schools across Nunavut represent resumed at 16:08 a significant capital investment and commitment to education. Our schools Bill 09 – Appropriation (Capital) Act, host 9,085 students from kindergarten to 2019-2020 – Education – grade 12, with 1,760 in the Kitikmeot Consideration in Committee region, 2,825 in the Kivalliq region, and 4,492 in the Qikiqtani region. Chairman: Thank you. Welcome back to the committee. I would like to call the (interpretation ends) Mr. Chairman, to meeting back to order. I would like to develop, plan, and manage the capital ask Minister Joanasie: do you have priorities I will be outlining, my officials that you would like to appear department diligently gathers before the committee? Minister Joanasie. information from schools, communities, district education authorities, and the Hon. David Joanasie (interpretation): Department of Community and Good day, Mr. Chairman and members. Government Services. Yes, I would like my officials here with me. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, the following are the capital projects that will be continuing Chairman: Thank you. Does the during the 2019-2020 fiscal year across committee agree to let the minister’s Nunavut. These include: officials go to the witness table?  The new Peter Pitseolak High School Some Members: Agreed. in Cape Dorset, which opened to students on August 27, 2018. It is in Chairman: Thank you. Sergeant-at- its warranty phase. The warranty Arms, please escort the officials in. phase is used to ensure all building components are performing as Thank you. For the record, Minister intended. Joanasie, please introduce your officials and then proceed with your opening  The Sakku School Major Renovation comments. Minister Joanasie. project in Coral Harbour is currently in the design stage. The design stage Hon. David Joanasie (interpretation): includes hiring a consultant to Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good day, produce the construction tender Nunavummiut and members. On my left documents. is Barry Cornthwaite, (interpretation ends) Manager of Capital,  Igloolik’s new high school is nearly (interpretation) and on my right is my completed. This school’s scheduled Deputy Minister of Education, Pujjuut completion date of June 2018 has Kusugak. been delayed due to deficiencies that are currently being addressed. Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to be here today to present the Department of  Iqaluit’s École des Trois-Soleil Education’s proposed 2019-2020 capital addition will be in the design phase. estimates which total $20,080,000. The school addition will eliminate

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the need for shared spaces at continue in 2019-2020. This budget not Aqasarniit Middle School and the only covers projects that are often health Inuksuk High School. and safety related, but also small projects such as wheelchair ramps,  Kugaaruk’s new school is in its third chairlifts, and mould remediation. year of construction. This school is scheduled to be completed in August (interpretation ends) Lastly, each year 2019. we review requests for school buses and departmental vehicles. In 2019-2020 we My department will be upgrading plan to continue our school bus project various information technology as we have in the past. infrastructure projects. There is a need to replace or repair intrusion alarms, (interpretation) I look forward to your closed-circuit televisions, paging questions, comments, and analysis as we systems, and telephone systems. review the Department of Education’s capital estimates for 2019-2020. Thank There is also an additional need to you, Mr. Chairman. replace Internet-capable devices, such as computers, modems, routers, SMART Chairman: Thank you, Minister Boards, and printers, to ensure that they Joanasie. Does the chair of the standing are capable of working with current committee have opening comments? software. Please proceed, Ms. Nakashuk.

My department will be continuing with Ms. Nakashuk (interpretation): Thank its ongoing lifecycle repairs. Lifecycle you, Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) items include major components of a I am pleased to provide opening building, such as foundations, boilers, comments on behalf of the Standing generators, roofs, siding, flooring, wall Committee on Social Wellness as the finishes, windows, and air handling Committee of the Whole begins its units. These components require consideration of the proposed 2019-2020 periodic repairs or replacement if they Capital Estimates of the Department of have met or exceeded their intended Education. lifespan. Mr. Chairman, the Department of (interpretation) Mr. Chairman, this Education’s proposed capital estimates budget allows us to prioritize our capital for 2019-2020 include five community- projects and those in collaboration with specific projects, three of which are the Department of Community and ongoing from previous fiscal years and Government Services. Additionally, this two new projects. In addition, four budget also prepares us for any needed projects will provide funding to meet repairs or replacements, enabling us to various Nunavut-wide capital needs minimize any potential impacts on during the 2019-2020 fiscal year in such delivery of school programs. areas as ongoing maintenance, school buses, and information technology. Mr. Chairman, my department has very small capital projects which will

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(interpretation) Members are pleased to programming for Iqaluit’s French- note that the projects for new schools in language students. The federal Cape Dorset and Igloolik will be in their government contributed significantly to final warranty year while the new school the original construction of Nunavut’s project in Kugaaruk will go into its only French-language school. Members second year of construction. look forward to updates on the department’s progress in accessing (interpretation ends) Mr. Chairman, one additional federal funding to help pay for of the new projects included in the some of the costs of the proposed Department of Education’s 2019-2020 additions to the French-language school draft capital estimates is for a major as well as updates on how the scope of renovation to the Sakku School in Coral the project will be impacted if federal Harbour. Standing committee members funds are not made available. had a number of questions regarding the government’s decision to proceed with a Mr. Chairman, the department’s current renovation instead of a replacement of practice of prioritizing school projects this school. For a number of years, takes into account such factors as student concerns have been raised regarding the enrolments, attendance rates, and Sakku School’s poor physical condition. existing school capacity to determine what is called a ‘utilization’ rate. It has been further suggested that the Members have expressed a number of location upon which the school is built concerns with the department’s method has led to a number of problems, in of determining school attendance rates, particular mould and ventilation issues. in particular with the ‘snapshot’ It was not clear to the standing recording of attending students on committee to what extent the Coral September 30 of each year. In many Harbour District Education Authority cases it was felt that the department’s has been involved in the decision to recorded numbers are not an accurate renovate the Sakku School instead of reflection of the number of attending replacing it. Members also had a number students in some communities. This of questions with respect to what other calculation not only has an impact on the practical and financial options are taken utilization rates used to determine a into consideration when comparing community’s need for additional options for proceeding with major educational space, but also affects renovations or [new] facilities. funding allocations for district education authorities and the number of teaching Mr. Chairman, the Department of positions in each community. Education’s new project for an addition to Iqaluit’s French school has been in the For capital planning purposes, members preplanning stage for some time. urge the department to put greater Members recognize that Iqaluit’s emphasis on long-term community growing school population size puts population trends and anticipated future additional pressure on its educational needs as well as taking into facilities. Aqsarniit Middle School and consideration any long-term Inuksuk High School have been environmental issues that certain schools providing additional space for may be facing.

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Mr. Chairman, members appreciate the communities. Providing appropriate need for funding to be allocated towards storage for buses is a growing concern the ongoing maintenance of buildings with the increasing need to protect them and other infrastructure, as well as the from vandalism and harsh weather. upgrading of equipment which is old or Members would appreciate receiving out of date. The Department of any updates on what consideration has Education has identified four estimated been given to allocating capital funding budget areas for the upcoming fiscal to the establishment of garages or year: small capital, ongoing lifecycle, storage space for community school buses, and IT infrastructure. buses.

Mr. Chairman, given the recent, severe Mr. Chairman, computer technology is and costly damage to Nunavut’s now a standard tool in the delivery of education infrastructure, members education programs across Canada. encourage the department to develop a Members are in full support of the comprehensive strategy to ensure that all minister’s plans to update equipment school facilities and school playgrounds across Nunavut’s schools as technology are protected from acts such as evolves. Members further encourage the vandalism and arson. Members minister to work with his counterpart at recognize that it may take some time to Community and Government Services to implement security measures for all of address the disposal of old computer Nunavut’s 44 schools but will support equipment in as efficient, economic and the minister in his efforts to implement environmentally responsible manner as such measures as installing barriers, possible. extra skirting, additional security cameras, and employing security Mr. Chairman, that concludes my personnel as necessary. opening comments on the proposed 2019-2020 Capital Estimates of the Members continue to raise questions Department of Education. I am confident regarding the allocation of school buses that individual members will also have for communities. It is not clear what comments and questions as we proceed. criteria is used to establish the need for Thank you. additional busing services, especially in those communities where new schools Chairman: Thank you, Ms. Nakashuk. are at some distance from the Well read. Do members have general community core or where wildlife comments before we proceed to detailed threats are becoming more common questions? General comments. Mr. occurrences. In addition, some Quassa. communities are growing quickly and current busing arrangements seem Mr. Quassa (interpretation): Thank you, inadequate to meet the needs. Mr. Chairman. I know that the new high school for Igloolik affects the student- Members would appreciate receiving an educator ratio. I am cognizant of its updated listing of the types of school impact, and I will have questions about busing services that are currently this matter later on. Thank you, Mr. provided across all of Nunavut’s Chairman.

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Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Netser. space for it in the winter and it no longer works when the weather gets cold. I will Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, have questions about that later on. Thank Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, minister (interpretation) and your officials. Chairman: Thank you. Questions or general comments. Seeing none. Oh, Mr. As we heard, it sounds like there will be Qirngnuq. major renovations to Coral Harbour’s school. I would like the minister to know Mr. Qirngnuq (interpretation): Thank that I will have questions on it. The you, Mr. Chairman. I thought you saw aging state that the school is in now has me. been brought up by my constituents since last week. I would like to let the I’ll have some brief questions about minister know that I will have some Kugaaruk’s school that is under questions about that. Thank you. construction. The Minister of Education was able to come this summer for the Chairman: General comments. Mr. opening of the airport terminal building Main. in my other constituency community and the finance minister was there among Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, others. It was great that they saw Mr. Chairman. First of all, welcome to Taloyoak’s old school. I’ll also have the minister and your officials. I would brief questions about that. Thank you, like to thank the minister. This past Mr. Chairman. summer he was able to go to Arviat. Arviat is growing really fast and there Chairman: Thank you. Any more are many children now. We have three questions on the comments? None? We schools and I think we need four schools will now proceed to the page-by-page now. If that planned school had gone review of the departmental estimates, ahead, we would have four now. I’ll starting on page G-3. Education. have some questions about that. The Corporate Services. Questions? Mr. minister saw with his own eyes how fast Netser. Arviat is growing and there are a great number of children. I want to thank him Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, for doing that. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chairman. (interpretation ends) Chairman. Welcome, minister and your staff. Substantiation sheets page 2 of 5 Chairman: Thank you. General (interpretation) says, (interpretation comments. Ms. Towtongie. ends) “Critical building components are beyond their useful life. Architectural, Ms. Towtongie (interpretation): Thank mechanical and electrical components you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, minister are in poor condition.” and your officials. The minister is aware that he got a letter from the Chesterfield (interpretation) My community has been Inlet District Education Authority. They requesting a new school ever since have a bus, but they don’t have storage Nunavut was created. I believe it was

Wednesday, October 31, 2018 Nunavut Hansard 1533 renovated in 1995. The question I have longer all the time and the permafrost is is on (interpretation ends) the critical melting. There haven’t been any new building components. (interpretation) reports about the pond that is under the Perhaps it’s the walls and building school. We heard recently that it is safe. foundations. If I read this correctly, it Which information is more accurate? states that the school has deteriorated. I Thank you, Mr. Chairman. would like to ask the minister if that is the case. Thank you. Chairman: Minister Joanasie.

Chairman: Minister Joanasie. Hon. David Joanasie (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank Hon. David Joanasie (interpretation): him for the question. First I should say Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank that if any resident of Coral Harbour or him for the question. There has been a his constituents have health or safety condition assessment on the Sakku concerns, it would be best if they got School. (interpretation ends) The school seen at the health centre so that they can has been deemed to be in extremely poor see what is causing the problem. With condition and that is why we are coming the assistance of the Department of forward with a project to do a major Community and Government Services, renovation of the existing building that the business case was presented. Last would be a full retrofit and an expansion year and in the past there were some of the existing school. Thank you, Mr. studies done on the Sakku School to Chairman. check to see if there is any mould or other hazardous substances. Chairman: Mr. Netser. For those studies, (interpretation ends) to Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, date we have received the previous Mr. Chairman. Our Sakku School sits on results and we have conducted multiple what used to be a small pond. When I assessments that have deemed the school was a child, we would go swimming in to be “occupiable.” That’s where we get that pond. It was our swimming hole and the direction from CGS and after these the school was built on it. That was not assessments are done, that states people mentioned. can be in this building, so that’s where we stand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The (interpretation ends) substantiation sheet (interpretation) states that Chairman: Mr. Netser. (interpretation ends) “Water running through the school has created an ideal Mr. Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. growing habitat for mould.” This substantiation sheet says the last (interpretation) I tabled some letters and time there was a document given to us pictures that I took, Mr. Chairman. I by the Department of Education, it says, received some letters from parents. I “In 2012 a condition report was presented them during (interpretation produced by VFA Stantec which ends) tabling of documents. identified the need for major renovations.” (interpretation) The summers are getting

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(interpretation) Were there any other normal. Even if they go to the nursing studies done after that, (interpretation station, the nurse will say they are fine. ends) to the recollection of the minister? Once I left that building, my headache (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. was gone. Chairman. We believe our constituents and we are Chairman: Minister Joanasie. elected to be their voice. Does the minister not believe the letters I tabled Hon. David Joanasie: Thank you, Mr. here? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman. Like I said, there have been numerous tests done at the Sakku School Chairman: Minister Joanasie. and onsite investigations as far back as 2006, and then more recently in Hon. David Joanasie (interpretation): November 2015 there was a mould and Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also thank fungal assessment done. Last year in him for the question. I’m not a doctor, so 2017 alone there were at least three: in I can’t really comment. We either June 2017 a hazardous building material believe in what people say or we don’t. survey; then in October 2017 a mould air Even though that is the situation, we sampling report; and then in December think that the concerns should be 2017 BluMetric baseline air monitoring. addressed through the major renovation Then the member talked about the most if it proceeds. We don’t want our recent one that was conducted this students and staff to be in a dangerous month. We haven’t had those results yet. place. We’re trying to get the renovation started as quickly as possible. It will be Like I said, all results have concluded able to proceed if we are approved here. that these… . Sorry. Hold on. They have Thank you, Mr. Chairman. concluded that the school is safe to occupy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman: Mr. Netser.

Chairman: Mr. Netser. Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There was someone from Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Coral Harbour whom I flew here with. I Mr. Chairman. The minister responded was late getting here, as you are aware. earlier to one of my questions that It was on Tuesday of last week. He was parents who have sick children should in Coral Harbour on the weekend and he go to the health centre. took many samples from our school. Does the government know what those Very recently I was at the school for samples contained? Thank you, Mr. about 45 minutes and I got a headache. Chairman. The place gives you headaches and the teachers I spoke to said that whenever Chairman: Minister Joanasie. they’re there, they don’t feel as well, especially people who are sensitive to Hon. David Joanasie (interpretation): those things. They get itchy and they Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps you start to get rashes on their skin, but when can allow Mr. Cornthwaite to respond they leave the building, they are back to with regard to the testing that was done.

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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. understand what the extent of the damage is and what needs to be done in Chairman: Mr. Cornthwaite. the future.

Mr. Cornthwaite: Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chairman, I move that the funds Chairman. Thank you for the question. allocated for this project be removed The tests that were completed by until we are fully informed as Coral BluMetric have been sent to the lab and Harbour residents. Thank you, Mr. the preliminary results have been shared Chairman. with us. They indicated that there is no evidence of mould in the occupied Chairman: I ask my committee if Mr. teaching areas of the school, but the Netser would read the motion. Yes? Mr. detailed report will be released to us in Netser. approximately two weeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Committee Motion 004 – 5(2): Deletion of $1,900,000 from the Chairman: Mr. Netser. 2019-2020 Capital Estimates of the Department of Education (Netser) Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m not sure how to say Mr. Netser: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I this, but when you’re from Coral note the minister’s staff has said that Harbour and you’re trying to work with there is nothing to fear from the community members… . This school preliminary results from the recent was built in 1995, which is before study. Based on that, we are not sure and Nunavut was created, but we’re not sure we do not trust what the government is what the future holds. We believe that saying anymore. the water under the school spread, but the government will deny that. They Based on that and prior to getting a won’t say things are bad when they proper assessment from the recent study, actually are. We’re concerned about it. I move that the $1.9 million be deleted from the proposed funding for the Last evening I was talking to Mayor “Sakku School Major Renovation” Willie Nakoolak, and he is concerned project in the 2019-2020 Capital about the condition of the school. Even Estimates of the Department of if it is renovated, the water under the Education. (interpretation) Thank you, school will just get worse and deteriorate Mr. Chairman. the condition of the school once again. Following Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, it is Chairman: Thank you. Mr. Netser, now obvious that the school is please provide a copy of your motion to deteriorating because of the water under the table. the building. Thank you. As the motion is not Mr. Chairman, until we completely translated, we will take a short break. understand the full extent of our school’s Thank you. renovation, I want to remove this item from here. We need to clearly

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>>Committee recessed at 16:45 and hamlet council and the DEA. The hamlet resumed at 17:01 said that they don’t mind if the planned project is removed. I told them that even Chairman: Thank you. Welcome back if it’s deleted, the government is the one to the committee. I call the committee that holds the money and I don’t know if meeting back to order. The motion is they’re going to bring it back. He said being distributed to the members. that it’s okay. We have been asking for a school for many years and it has never The motion is in order. To the motion. shown up in the five-year capital plan. Mr. Netser. He said that we can wait further.

Mr. Netser (interpretation): Thank you, Again, I had a conversation with Mayor Mr. Chairman. I also thank you for Willie Nakoolak last night. He’s a good coming back. leader and he’s concerned about our community. (interpretation ends) Our Mr. Chairman, I do believe that the mayor has taken the leadership in government works as best they can and preparing plans to look at other options when we’re talking about our school, I so that our students will have a place for do believe that they are going to restore learning. (interpretation ends) the structure of the building. (interpretation) However, in The community feels that the longer they the substantiation sheet, the water under stay in our school in its condition even the school builds up all the time and it now, they fear for the health of the doesn’t seem to be mentioned. students and the staff. Based on that, that is why I brought the motion forward. Even if there is a major renovation done (interpretation) Thank you, Mr. on our school, there is the water under Chairman. the building. It’s drained daily for a total of three hours, but it’s obvious that it can Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Main. be drained all day long. If there is nothing done about the water under the Mr. Main (interpretation): Thank you, building, we will just use a lot of money Mr. Chairman. While we are on the from the limited funds that we have. The subject, I think there should be further school may look perfect, but it will keep dialogue between the Department of getting deteriorated by the slough that is Education and my colleague. I think that under the building if it’s not addressed. would be better. With that in mind, (interpretation ends) I would like to The Department of Education and the make a motion to report progress at this government say that there’s no mould in time, Mr. Chairman. the school and I believe it might not be mould, but the smell of the water goes Chairman: Thank you. We have a all over the school. Our students and motion on the floor to report progress staff are getting sick. and the motion is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion. All With that and to add further, before I opposed. The motion is carried came here, I had a meeting with the

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>>Laughter 1. Prayer

2. Ministers’ Statements Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses. I will now rise to report 3. Members’ Statements progress. 4. Returns to Oral Questions

Speaker (interpretation): Going to the 5. Recognition of Visitors in the orders of the day. Report of the Gallery Committee of the Whole. Mr. Akoak. 6. Oral Questions Item 20: Report of the Committee of 7. Written Questions the Whole 8. Returns to Written Questions Mr. Akoak: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 9. Replies to Opening Address Your committee has been considering Bill 9, with one committee motion to be 10. Petitions discussed, and would like to report 11. Responses to Petitions progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the Report of the Committee of the Whole 12. Reports of Standing and Special be agreed to. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Committees on Bills and Other

Speaker (interpretation): Thank you. Matters There is a motion on the floor. Is there a 13. Tabling of Documents seconder? Thank you, Mr. Hickes. 14. Notices of Motions >>Laughter 15. Notices of Motions for First

The motion is in order. All those in Reading of Bills favour of the motion, please raise your 16. Motions hand. Thank you. All those opposed. The motion is carried. 17. First Reading of Bills

18. Second Reading of Bills Third Reading of Bills. Orders of the Day. Mr. Clerk. 19. Consideration in Committee of

the Whole of Bills and Other Item 22: Orders of the Day Matters Clerk (Mr. Quirke): Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Just a reminder that there is a  Bill 2 meeting of the Management and  Bill 9 Services Board at eleven o’clock tomorrow morning in the Tuktu  Committee Motion 4 – 5(2) Boardroom.  Bill 10

Orders of the Day for November 1:  Bill 11 20. Report of the Committee of the

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Whole 21. Third Reading of Bills 22. Orders of the Day Thank you.

Speaker (interpretation): Thank you. This House stands adjourned until Thursday, November 1, at 1:30 p.m.

Sergeant-at-Arms.

>>House adjourned at 17:13