March 10, 1998 Alberta Hansard 803 Legislative Assembly of Alberta from the Auditor General on September 23, and he's reporting on the progress there. I'd just like to read into the record the last Title: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 8:00 p.m. sentence of the Auditor General's letter to Mr. O'Brien, in which Date: 98/03/10 he says: head: Committee of Supply As I said in my 1996-97 Annual Report, the management of the Department of Treasury are to be congratulated on their achieve- [Mr. Tannas in the chair] ments regarding the quality of the consolidated financial state- ments. THE CHAIRMAN: I'd like to call this meeting to order. Hon. That is signed: Peter Valentine, Auditor General. So I appreciate members of the committee, if we could all sit down, then we'll that letter reflecting on the management and the personnel in the just go on the usual practice of only one member of the committee Treasury Department. standing and talking at one time, whether you're a minister or not. I'm interested and open to other remarks by opposition Just a reminder to all members of the agreement that the House members or even my own colleagues, and though I may not be leaders have arranged and the committee acceded to last night: up able to answer all questions tonight, I will indeed endeavour, as to 20 minutes for the minister, up to 20 minutes for the Official I have in the past, to reply to questions that may be forthcoming. Opposition, and should there be the third party, up to five minutes for them to reply, and then the calling of the vote. If that's still THE CHAIRMAN: The hon. Member for Edmonton-Mill Creek. in agreement, any objection? None. MR. ZWOZDESKY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A pleasure to head: Main Estimates 1998-99 join in on this excellent debate tonight on Treasury estimates, in fact to conclude debate on them. Before we get going with some Treasury of the specific questions that I have, I would like to take the THE CHAIRMAN: The hon. Provincial Treasurer. liberty of tabling a letter which in fact corrects a misimpression from a week or two ago that was offered in the House I believe MR. DAY: Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I'll be brief. First, as we by the Provincial Treasurer. That's with respect to my predeces- get into this reporting night, I want to thank the members who sor's comments relative to the stabilization fund. have spoken and addressed a number of questions related to the The letter I'm tabling is dated August 6, 1996. It's from Mike estimates. They were good questions and, I think, resulted in Percy, MLA, Edmonton-Whitemud, Treasury critic, and it's information forthcoming. addressed to the hon. Jim Dinning, Provincial Treasurer. As Dr. I'd just like to remind members that at the February 24 Percy talks about various concerns that he has relative to the subcommittee of supply meeting, I tabled the ministry's business inadequacy of legislative frameworks pertaining to the high plan. That provided quite a bit of detail on the following entities; volatility of revenue bases in the provincial government, it's quite AGT Commission, Alberta heritage savings trust fund, Alberta clear that in that context he does say in fact, hon. Treasurer, on Insurance Council, Alberta Intermodal, Alberta Municipal page 2, “Another solution is to set up a stabilization fund.” That Financing Corporation, Alberta Securities Commission, Treasury is basically the same thing that I've been talking about, which is Branches, Chembiomed, Credit Union Deposit Guarantee the fiscal stabilization fund. He talks about how it could in fact Corporation, Gainers Limited, and N.A. Properties. I also tabled be brought to bear. In fact, Dr. Percy was quite a strong at that time a clarification of the Gainers income statement – it proponent of that fund. I wanted to just raise that so that the was published in the '98-99 government lottery fund estimates – record shows that Dr. Percy had in fact initiated that particular as well as answers to questions on the '97-98 supplementary idea, and I wanted to give him full credit for it. estimate for long-term disability. I hope the information as Now, let's go on to the estimates before us. I want to start by requested was useful to the hon. members across the way. talking about program 3, which is financial management and In response to many of the questions that were raised on planning. This of course refers to the area of support services and February 24, I tabled the following items on February 26: a programs of government toward the provision of planning, breakdown of the department's '98-99 operating costs by object management, and reporting on the government's financial affairs of expenditure for ministry support services, revenue collection and also the maintenance of sound financial services to the and rebates, and financial management and planning. That financial services industries. In the 1998-1999 gross operating included information by object, as requested I believe by the budget we note expenses of $17.685 million, which represents, I Member for Edmonton-Mill Woods, on such items as salaries, believe, about a 46.5 percent decrease from the previous year's wages, travel, contract services, data processing services, hosting, comparable '97-98 budget. I'm always interested when I see these et cetera, and also a status report on the electronic filing of the kinds of decreases in expenditures. [interjection] I'm just reading Alberta corporate tax returns and a synopsis of the guarantees, from my notes here, hon. Treasurer; I'll get you the page in just indemnities, loans, and advances that were issued since '92-93. a moment. So I hope that information was useful. I understand other In any case, just to carry on, I'm interested in that decrease, departments have begun now to also file gross operating expenses because I'm wondering if it has something to do with decentraliza- by object. So I appreciate the members opposite raising the tion within the department or if it has something to do with question and maybe getting a bit of a trend going here, which I outsourcing. In any event, it represents about a $15 million think is positive. decrease from the previous year, so it's a question I'd like I'd like to just read into the record if I can, Mr. Chairman, answered. Mr. Chairman, I will tell the Treasurer that it's page before I sit down a letter of March 4, 1998, and I'll table this 381 that we were trying to reference. letter. It's addressed to Mr. Al O'Brien, Deputy Provincial Now I want to talk about item 3.0.1, which is the office of Treasurer, and it's from the Auditor General in response to a budget and management. I'd like to know with respect to the letter of February 9 regarding some recommendations coming office of budget and management what standards and guidelines 804 Alberta Hansard March 10, 1998 have been established to allow the office of the controller and the Another point about costing in a general sense, Mr. Chairman, office of budget and management to ensure that individual is in relation to outputs. I think we have to make the point that departments do in fact follow consistent internal audit and there should be closer monitoring and reporting of not only the financial and reporting procedures. input side but the outputs and what we're getting as a result. I'm also concerned about the performance indicators insofar as Perhaps the Provincial Treasurer at some point might be able to this department is concerned, in particular accuracy of recording tell us about the plan that he has prepared or that the budget and departments' financial information, time lines of reporting management division has prepared to ensure that these outputs are departmental financial information, adherence to legislative in fact being costed out. If so, would he be willing to release a compliance, and ensuring that departmental budgets are not copy of that plan? exceeded. So in that respect, I wonder if the Treasurer would tell Additionally, I'm hoping that the Treasurer will tell us soon us what benchmarks he's established with and by the office of when he expects to comply with the Auditor General's recommen- budget and management to look after those performance indica- dation for costing the outputs referred to and relating the results tors. In that same vein, Mr. Chairman, I'm hoping the Treasurer to costs based on specific outputs. In short, what's your time line will indicate whether any consulting projects are being undertaken on that? Or is that work already in progress? by budget and management in 1998-99 and, if so, in what areas Which reporting systems do you have, hon. Treasurer? Which they fall. ones do you have to adjust in government to meet the new Similarly, I want to make some comments with respect to reporting requirements that have been talked about and the annual reports, and some of these flow out of comments made by changes in budgeting that precede the changes in actual reporting? the Auditor General's department as they relate to these estimates. Now, there's another issue here relative to capital assets, My questions are as follows. Are there any plans for allowing the specifically lands, buildings, highways, et cetera, and their Auditor General to provide a formal audit of specific ministry appearance on the consolidated balance sheet.