Central Information Commission, New Delhi File No. CIC/SH/C/2015/000049 Right to Information Act-2005-Under Section (19) Name of the Appellant : Shri Subhash Chandra Agrawal, R/o: H. No- 1775, Kucha Lattushah, Dariba, Chandni Chowk, Delhi- 110006 Name of the Public : Shri Madan Chaurasia, Authority/Respondent Under Secretary, Central Public Information Officer, M/o Culture Shastri Bhawan, New Delhi-110001 Information Commissioner : Shri Sharat Sabharwal Hearing on 30.8.2016 This matter concerns compliance by the Respondents with the Commission’s order No. CIC/SH/C/2015/000049 dated 25.5.2015, in which a direction was given for provision of certain information in response to the RTI application dated 10.9.2012 of the Appellant relating to his submissions ‘Ram Lila in Delhi’ made to the Union Ministry of Culture through PG portal. The Appellant wrote to the Commission on 17.8.2015, stating that the information had not been provided. After correspondence on the above issue with the Department of Art, Culture and Languages, NCT of Delhi, it was decided to hold a hearing on the compliance issue, which took place on 30.8.2016. Besides, the Appellant, the following were present on behalf of the Respondents:- (i) Shri B. S. Vashisht, Deputy Secretary, Department of Art, Culture and Languages, NCT of Delhi. (ii) Shri Madan Chaurasia, Under Secretary, Ministry of Culture. (iii) Shri Lalit Kumar Gupta, APIO, North Delhi Municipal Corporation. 1 (iv) Shri Rajesh Kumar Sharma, Naib Tehsildar, District Magistrate (Central District) Delhi. (v) Shri Sushil Tyagi, ACP/APIO, HQ (North) (vi) Ms. Meena Naidu, ACP/APIO, PHQ (vii) Shri Rajesh, ASI/PIO, PHQ (viii) Shri Ghan Shyam, ASI/PIO, PHQ (ix) Shri Ashok Tyagi, ACP (Hq.), Central District. (x) Shri Surendra Singh, Inspector, Kotwali. (xi) Shri Parveen Mann, Sub Inspector (North). 2. At the outset, the Appellant submitted that he has not been provided the information in response to point Nos. 5 to 9 of his RTI application. He stated that the Department of Art, Culture and Languages, NCT of Delhi, transferred the queries to North Delhi Municipal Corporation and Delhi Police. However, he has received no information. He further submitted that Shri Ram Lila Committee, Delhi was registered as a Society on 24.6.1938 with its registered office at 2433, Chipiwara Street, Delhi. The registration document provides that the license for the performance of Ram Lila celebrations shall be taken out in the names of the President, the Secretary General and all the Mahants. He also produced an authorisation letter dated 11.10.1985, issued by the Delhi Police in the names of the above functionaries and three Mahants to take out Shri Ram Lila processions from 14.10.1985 to 24.10.1985. He stated that the permission in subsequent years has been given without a mention of the Mahants who, according to the 1938 registration deed, are to be ipso facto members of the Managing Committee. 2 The Appellant submitted that adherence to the provisions of the registration deed is linked to maintaining the heritage of Ram Lila and glory of the day-night Ram Lila procession. The Appellant wanted to know, in particular, the status of the following:- (a) Absence of the three Mahants from the procession in contradiction of the provisions of the certificate of registration of 1938. (b) Missing of one main chariot with wooden horses and silver-engraved plates for the last so many years. (c) Missing of silver chairs and carvings of chariots, decorations of wooden horses and other silver items used by characters of the Ram Lila procession. (d) Encroachment in the tin shed at Daryaganj (two side corner plot between Sanjeevan Hospital and commercial school), housing chariots of Ram Lila procession. (e) Status of Shri Ram Lila temple at Ramchandra Dehlvi Marg. 3. Shri Ashok Tyagi, ACP, Central District stated that there is no complaint on their records in regard to the above matters from North Delhi Municipal Corporation. 4. The Appellant stated that the information sought by him relates to the heritage of the country and its disclosure is important. In this connection he referred to the 3 following observations made by the Supreme Court in its order in Subhas Datta vs. Union of India & Ors. [W.P. (C) No. 252 of 2004]:- “15. It can hardly be gainsaid that preservation of rich heritage and culture of the country is a constitutional mandate. In UNESCO Convention on the means of Prohibiting and Preventing the Illicit Import, Export and Transfer of Ownership of Cultural Property adopted in the General Conference of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, meeting in Paris from 12th October to 14th November 1970, at its sixteenth session, which has been duly ratified by India, the spirit of the said mandate has been reiterated. The International Council of Museums (ICOM) (working with the support of UNESCO) has issued guidelines for disaster preparedness in Museums which are well known to those concerned with the management of Museums. The UNESCO in its quarterly journal “Museum” has suggested measures for security of museum objects in the light of studies undertaken by it. Performance audit of preservation and conservation of Monuments and Antiquities is also conducted by the Comptroller and Auditor General of India (CAG).” 5. We have considered the submissions made by the Appellant with reference to the queries of his RTI application at point Nos. 5 to 9. This matter has lingered on for a long time without even a clarity regarding where the information lies in respect to certain issues raised by the Appellant. This situation cannot be allowed to continue. We list below the authorities who, prima facie, should be in possession of some information concerning the issues raised by the Appellant at the following points of his RTI application:- (a) Point No. 5: “Complete information on steps taken if any to take over oldest Ram Lila staged at Ram Lila Grounds (New Delhi) on lines of Mysore Dussehra also because of mismanagement as highlighted in enclosed submissions.” Point No. 7: “Complete information on restoring heritage of ancient Shri Ram temple at Ramchandra Dehlvi Marg (formerly Esplanade Road) at Delhi 4 to restore it originating point (sic) for ancient day-night daily Ram Lila procession during Navratras.” Point No. 9: “Complete information restoring glory of day-night daily Ram Lila procession during Navratras for oldest Ram Lila of Delhi being staged at Ram Lila grounds (New Delhi).” Authorities who should, prima facie, have the information:- (i) Shri Madan Chaurasia, Under Secretary and CPIO, Ministry of Culture, Shastri Bhawan, New Delhi. (ii) Shri B. S. Vashist, Deputy Secretary and CPIO, Department of Art, Culture and Languages, NCT of Delhi, 7th Level, C Wing, Delhi Secretariat, New Delhi. (iii) Shri B. L. Meena, District Magistrate (HQ.), 14 Daryaganj, New Delhi 110002. (iv) Shri Ashok Tyagi, ACP (HQ.), Central District, New Delhi 110002. [Sl. No. (iii) and (iv) should provide, in particular, such information as is available with them, as mentioned in para 2 above, relating to the Ram Lila procession and the issue concerning the status of the Mahants in it.] (b) Point No. 6: “Complete information on removing encroachments from sheds of Ram Lila housing chariots at Daryaganj (New Delhi).” 5 Point No. 8: “Complete information on tracing costly silver-items, decorative and other property of oldest Ram Lila of Delhi being staged at Ram Lila grounds (New Delhi).” Authorities who should, prima facie, have the information:- (i) Shri Lalit Kumar Gupta, APIO/ Nodal Officer, North Delhi Municipal Corporation, Shyama Prasad Mukherjee Civic Centre, J. L. Nehru Marg, New Delhi - 110002. (ii) Shri Ashok Tyagi, ACP/HQ/Central District, Daryaganj, New Delhi– 110002. (iii) Shri Surendra Singh, Inspector, ATO/ Kotwali, Delhi 110006. (iv) Shri Praveen Mann, Sub Inspector (North), Civil Lines, Delhi -110054. 6. The matter raised by the Appellant concerns the religious and cultural sentiments of a large number of persons and, therefore, we are, prima facie, of the view that the authorities listed above should provide whatever information is available with them on the issues mentioned above. However, before taking a final decision regarding disclosure of the information listed above, we would like to give an opportunity to Shri Ram Lila Committee (Regd.) to make their submissions, if any. 7. The matter will be heard again on 20th December 2016 at 2.00 p.m. at Room No. 305, 2nd Floor, August Kranti Bhawan, Bhikaji Cama Place, New Delhi - 110066. Shri Ram Lila Committee (Regd.) should be represented at the next hearing on 20.12.2016 in case they wish to make a submission in the matter. Besides the CPIO of the Ministry of Culture and the CPIO of the Department of Art, Culture and Languages, Govt. of NCT, the remaining persons listed in paragraph 5 above should 6 also be present at the next hearing to make their submissions. Further, they are directed to file their written submissions so as to reach us latest by 12.12.2016, listing the information that they possess and the authorities who may have additional information on the above issues. The Registry is directed to send copies of this order to all the above mentioned officials. Hearing on 10.1.2017 8. The matter came up on 10.1.2017 instead of 20.12.2016. The Appellant was present in person. The following were present on behalf of the Respondents:- (i) Shri Surendra Singh, Inspector, Kotwali. (ii) Shri Radha Krishan, S. I., Police Station, Central District. (iii) Shri Sohan Vir Singh, ASI, Police Station, Daryaganj. (iv) Shri Raghunath Yadav, A. O., Central Zone, South Delhi Municipal Corporation. (v) Shri Parveen Mann, S.