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Home , Batman, Batsuit, Bill Finger, Joel Schumacher, The Dark Knight Returns

interview The world today is a dangerous place, filled

with violence Interview with Bruce Scivally conducted by Michał Chudoliński

40 Michał Chudoliński: What are the origins of ’s B.S.: was a former shoe salesman B.S.: The huge success of the campy, comedic thought he would be able to land a movie physical appearance? It is said that in the beginning he was whom artist took on as a partner 1966­‑68 Batman TV show created an image deal immediately, but the studios couldn’t supposed to wear a red suit and have blonde hair... because Kane, though a passable artist, was in the public consciousness of Batman as see any commercial potential in producing Bruce Scivally: When Bob Kane first created not good at coming up with stories. Kane and a comedic character. enthusiast a movie based on a 1960s TV series. Batman, his original idea was for a character Finger were collaborators on comic strips like Michael Uslan was obsessed with bringing Uslan kept fighting for his of Batman, in a red with a little black domino “Clip Carson” for National before a version of Batman to the movies that would commissioning scripts and approaching , the kind that eventually wore. they jointly created Batman. However, Kane be more like the very first Batman comics, or directors. It was only after he met with He went to his collaborator, Bill Finger, who was a much more savvy businessman than like the comic book stories of the 1970s, in superstar producers Peter Guber and Jon suggested that instead Batman should have Finger, and Kane had it put into his contract which Batman was a dark . Once Peters and partnered with them that he was an outfit that resembled a , and that the co‑ with National that he would always be he obtained the rights to Batman in 1979, he able to get a movie produced that fulfilled lors should be black and gray. In comic books, credited as the creator of Batman, essentially the color blue was used for highlights on shutting Finger out. Over the next couple of black, so it appeared that Batman’s costume decades, Finger – and other writers – came might have been blue, as it would eventually up with stories for Batman comic books, become. and a number of uncredited artists – called “” – drew the adventures, but Bob Kane M.Ch.: What can you tell us about Bill Finger? How did he got all the credit and all the . contribute to the creation and development of Batman M.Ch.: In your opinion, what do these events in Bill Finger’s life tell us about American show business? What lesson About the Author can we draw from his experience? is a film historian, professor and writer who teaches film classes at the Illinois Institute of Art­‑Chicago B.S.: The lesson to be learned from Bill and Columbia College when not working on Finger’s experience is that when you are film history books. His latest book, Billion Dollar Batman,”traces the history of the Dark Knight in embarking on a creative endeavor in partner‑ radio, serials, TV and movies. ship with someone else, you must first come to Scivally previously wrote on Film, Tele‑ terms on how the money will be shared and vision, Radio & Broadway and co­‑authored James Bond: The Legacy. He has also written articles for the credit will be accorded and sign a contract Filmfax, Variety, High Life and British Esquire. before you begin doing the work. Before moving to Chicago, Scivally produced and wrote documentaries for Special Edition DVD M.Ch.: Michael Uslan, great producer of Batman franchise, releases of the James Bond films, Alfred Hitchcock movies, the Charlie Chan and Mr. Moto series, The often complained that in the 70s and early 80s, studios Pink Panther, The Great Escape, Legally Blonde, such as Warner Bros. or Universal didn’t want to make any A Fish Called Wanda, A Bridge Too Far, Doris serious films about Batman because they couldn’t believe Day and Alice Faye films, and many others. To learn more about Bruce and his books, in their success. What was the reason for this attitude and visit www.BruceScivally.com. what changed it? Illustration: A photograph of "Bob" Kane taken : in 1960's. Photofest.

interview

his vision – ten years after he had first acqui‑ 41 red the rights.

M.Ch.: What role did play in ’s success? Where else do we see its influence? B.S.: The The Dark Knight Returns, from writer/artist , rein‑ vented Batman in the 1980s, presenting a very dark and grim tale of a 50­‑ish coming out of retirement to fight crime. The incredible success of the comic books and paperback reprints helped pave the way for Happy Meals then went to see the movie, they a darker, grittier interpretation of Batman in were given nightmares by the with the movies. black bile drooling from his mouth. Parents ; photo courtesy of Bruce Scivally. complained to M.Ch.: What caused McDonalds and to Warner Bros., so perform so poorly? the studio decided B.S.: The 1989 that for the third Batman movie Batman film, they was a masterpiece Batman & Robin should get a di‑ of marketing, seemed more like rector who would tioned, Schumacher was under a directive M.Ch.: What made Nolan movies a worldwide phenomenon? becoming one deliver a more from Warner Bros. to make films Aren’t they a bit overrated? Their plots seem to have a lot of of the highest­ a throwback to the kid­‑friendly film, more kid­‑friendly and win back some of the illogical turning points, especially ... ‍‑grossing films and so they chose corporate sponsors who bailed after Batman B.S.: ’s Batman trilogy was of all time. The 1960s TV series. . Returns. He succeeded in those tasks, but his built on the premise of taking the character

, Henry Gray Publishing; a cosplayer readingBillion Dollar Batman sequel, released second film,Batman & Robin, seemed more out of the fantasy worlds of Tim Burton and three years later, M.Ch.: What can you like a throwback to the 1960s TV series, and Joel Schumacher and thinking about how spent more time tell us about the alienated many hard­‑core fans. Nonetheless, Batman would exist in the real world. At the on the Penguin cinema industry and it was still financially successful. After critics same time, Nolan was heavily influenced and pop culture status in slammed the film, Schumacher planned to by the James Bond films, especiallyOn Her than on Batman, who seemed like a guest star the Schumacher era? In what way did the failure of Batman make a much lower­‑budgeted, grittier Batman Majesty’s Secret Service, so the plots had in his own movie. One of the tie­‑in marketing & Robin change the perspective of producers and industry? film, but the studio pulled the plug and began some rather fantastic gadgetry and action partners was McDonald’s, who promoted B.S.: Schumacher is often derided by Batman looking for another director to revitalize the sequences. The Dark Knight, because of the the film through Happy Meals. However, fans who sum up his two films with four franchise. of , became a cultural

Illustrations: The cover of Billion Dollar Batman when little kids who saw Batman on their words: “nipples on the .” As I men‑ phenomenon, quickly becoming the second interview

M.Ch.: How did the image of the male change throu- 42 Kilmer and , both of whom ghout all of Batman’s history? How was he portrayed in had athletic physiques. When various eras and in what ways was he a reflection of the became Batman, he underwent strenuous times? For example, what are the differences between the weight training to get a muscular physique, leading male character from the golden age of comics and which he maintained for his next two outings the one featured in the TV series? as the Caped Crusader. B.S.: In the comic books, Batman has always had a bodybuilder’s physique. In the serials M.Ch.: In what exactly does the importance of Batman in 1943 and 1949, Batman was paunchy, consist? What is his essence? more like the average American of the day. B.S.: Unlike Superman, who represents go‑ When Adam West was cast as Batman for odness and hope, Batman is a character who more time focusing on the villains the TV show, he had a slim physique, but represent revenge and our darker impulses. than on Batman, and the plot was doubled in many of the action scenes In the introduction to my book, I say that seemed to be overburdened with by a pot­‑bellied stuntman, giving rise to the while Superman represents who we aspire to twists that didn’t stand up to close mistaken perception that West himself was be, Batman represents who we are. scrutiny. For myself, I enjoyed the out of shape. West’s slender physique was in film, but felt it was a bit bloated. It keeping with the style of the 1960s, when M.Ch.: What fascinates you most about this particular certainly didn’t have the narrative a slim build was considered preferable to story? Are you interested in certain heroes, or is it gusto of The Dark Knight, tho‑ being “muscle bound”; this can also be seen simply all about the atmosphere? ugh I think it is a better film than in the selection of Ron Ely as TV’s Tarzan, B.S.: I was about 6 years old when ‑ . who was much thinner than the bulging­ man TV show premiered. Prior to that, I was ‍‑biceped Gordon Scott a big fan of The Lone highest­‑grossing film of all time. Conseque‑ M.Ch.: Do you think that Nolan’s legacy is going to have of the 1950s movies. In Ranger and Superman, ntly, expectations for the sequel were very a substantial influence on other movies? Or 1989, whose 1950s TV shows high. Yet when the opening weekend of The maybe it already did? was cast as Batman. The Dark Knight were then in re­‑runs. Dark Knight Rises was marred by a massacre B.S.: The astounding success of The Dark Keaton, a short, slender Around that same time, in a movie theatre, many people Knight had a tremendous impact on comic comedian, was the antit‑ Rises proved I began watching the were put off from going to the film. Even so, book movies, which were once seen strictly hesis of the bodybuilder controversial old it was still a hit worldwide. as kiddie fare, but are now thought to be type one would expect among hard-core horror films on televi‑ dark­‑themed adult entertainment. Even to be playing the caped Batman fans. sion. So, by the time M.Ch.: What reviews did The Dark Knight Rises get from the Superman, a character who symbolizes hope hero, but director Tim I was a teenager, I was audience and critics? What is your take on it? and light, will be a dark, conflicted charac‑ Burton liked the idea of already interested in B.S.: Critics mostly gave The Dark Knight ter when he returns to movie screens next a normal guy who beca‑ pop­‑culture movies and Rises good reviews, but the film proved summer in The Man of , produced by me a superhero when he TV and comic books. controversial among hard­‑core Batman fans. Christopher Nolan. put on an armored uniform with the muscles I also became a fan of James Bond films. I de‑

As with Batman Returns, it seemed to spend sculpted in. Keaton was succeeded by Val cided to try for a career in movies, and went Illustrations: photographer Bill Finger, unknown; Bruce Scivally, photo by Alejandro Arjona; photo courtesy of Bruce Scivally. interview

to the University of Southern California after I writing the book James Bond: The Legacy. to write a book about Batman, so I wrote 43 graduating from high school. I remained in I enjoyed writing that book, so I decided to “Billion Dollar Batman.” Los Angeles, where I eventually became a co­ write a book about another childhood hero, ‍‑producer of the James Bond special edition and wrote Superman on Film, Television, M.Ch.: Has Batman influenced your life? DVDs, creating all the behind­‑the­‑scenes Radio and Broadway” While promoting that – After spending three years researching and documentaries. This led to John Cork and book, everyone kept asking when I was going writing the book, I then went to various comic book conventions to promote it. In the course of researching the book, and appearing at the cons, I made a lot of new friends who are Batman enthusiasts.

M.Ch.: Do you think Batman can inspire people to improve their lives, help others and change the world for the better?

; photo courtesy of Bruce Scivally. B.S.: To be honest, I would say that Superman and the Lone Ranger were more inspiring to me than Batman, since those characters were more “goody­‑two­‑shoes” types, and following their example taught me to be honest and upbeat. If I were influenced by Batman (or at least the current depictions of Batman), I’d with a copy of Billion Dollar Batman be depressed and brooding and meting out punishment on anyone I felt had wronged me.

M.Ch.: Are you of the opinion that Batman makes an essential part of our cultural mythology? B.S.: The world today is a dangerous place, filled with violence. As a result, ordinary citizens often feel powerless. This, I believe, is what makes the so popular; we wish that, like Batman or Superman or , we could be courageous and power‑ ful enough to bring order to the chaos of the world. Illustration: Kilmer, the actor Val who played the lead role in BatmanForever,