INTERVIEW THE WORLD TODAY IS A DANGEROUS PLACE, FILLED WITH VIOLENCE INTERVIEW WITH BRUCE SCIVALLY CONDUCTED BY MICHAł CHUDOLIńSKI 40 MICHAł CHUDOLIńSKI: WHAT ARE THE ORIGINS OF BATMAN’S B.S.:Bill Finger was a former shoe salesman B.S.: The huge success of the campy, comedic thought he would be able to land a movie PHYSICAL APPEARANCE? IT IS SAID THAT IN THE BEGINNING HE WAS whom artist Bob Kane took on as a partner 1966 ‑68 Batman TV show created an image deal immediately, but the studios couldn’t SUPPOSED TO WEAR A RED SUIT AND HAVE BLONDE HAIR... because Kane, though a passable artist, was in the public consciousness of Batman as see any commercial potential in producing Bruce Scivally: When Bob Kane first created not good at coming up with stories. Kane and a comedic character. Comic book enthusiast a movie based on a goofy 1960s TV series. Batman, his original idea was for a character Finger were collaborators on comic strips like Michael Uslan was obsessed with bringing Uslan kept fighting for his vision of Batman, in a red costume with a little black domino “Clip Carson” for National Comics before a version of Batman to the movies that would commissioning scripts and approaching mask, the kind that Robin eventually wore. they jointly created Batman. However, Kane be more like the very first Batman comics, or directors. It was only after he met with He went to his collaborator, Bill Finger, who was a much more savvy businessman than like the comic book stories of the 1970s, in superstar producers Peter Guber and Jon suggested that instead Batman should have Finger, and Kane had it put into his contract which Batman was a dark vigilante. Once Peters and partnered with them that he was an outfit that resembled a bat, and that the co‑ with National that he would always be he obtained the rights to Batman in 1979, he able to get a movie produced that fulfilled lors should be black and gray. In comic books, credited as the creator of Batman, essentially the color blue was used for highlights on shutting Finger out. Over the next couple of black, so it appeared that Batman’s costume decades, Finger – and other writers – came might have been blue, as it would eventually up with stories for Batman comic books, become. and a number of uncredited artists – called “ghosts” – drew the adventures, but Bob Kane M.CH.: WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT BILL FINGER? HOW DID HE got all the credit and all the glory. CONTRIBUTE TO THE CREATION AND DEVELOPMENT OF BATMAN M.CH.: IN YOUR OPINION, WHAT DO THESE EVENTS IN BILL FINGER’S LIFE TELL US ABOUT AMERICAN SHOW BUSINESS? WHAT LESSON ABOUT THE AUTHOR CAN WE DRAW FROM HIS EXPERIENCE? is a film historian, professor and writer who teaches film classes at the Illinois Institute of Art ‑Chicago B.S.: The lesson to be learned from Bill and Columbia College when not working on Finger’s experience is that when you are film history books. His latest book, Billion Dollar Batman,”traces the history of the Dark Knight in embarking on a creative endeavor in partner‑ radio, serials, TV and movies. ship with someone else, you must first come to Scivally previously wrote Superman on Film, Tele‑ terms on how the money will be shared and vision, Radio & Broadway and co ‑authored James Bond: The Legacy. He has also written articles for the credit will be accorded and sign a contract Filmfax, Variety, High Life and British Esquire. before you begin doing the work. Before moving to Chicago, Scivally produced and wrote documentaries for Special Edition DVD M.CH.: MICHAEL USLAN, GREAT PRODUCER OF BATMAN FRANCHISE, releases of the James Bond films, Alfred Hitchcock movies, the Charlie Chan and Mr. Moto series, The OFTEN COMPLAINED THAT IN THE 70S AND EARLY 80S, STUDIOS Pink Panther, The Great Escape, Legally Blonde, SUCH AS WARNER BROS. OR UNIVERSAL DIDN’T WANT TO MAKE ANY A Fish Called Wanda, A Bridge Too Far, Doris SERIOUS FILMS ABOUT BATMAN BECAUSE THEY COULDN’T BELIEVE Day and Alice Faye films, and many others. To learn more about Bruce and his books, IN THEIR SUCCESS. WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR THIS ATTITUDE AND visit www.BruceScivally.com. WHAT CHANGED IT? Illustration: A photograph of Robert "Bob" Kane taken Source: in 1960's. Photofest. INTERVIEW his vision – ten years after he had first acqui‑ 41 red the rights. M.CH.: WHAT ROLE DID THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS PLAY IN TIM BURTON’S SUCCESS? WHERE ELSE DO WE SEE ITS INFLUENCE? B.S.: The graphic novel The Dark Knight Returns, from writer/artist Frank Miller, rein‑ vented Batman in the 1980s, presenting a very dark and grim tale of a 50 ‑ish Bruce Wayne coming out of retirement to fight crime. The incredible success of the comic books and paperback reprints helped pave the way for Happy Meals then went to see the movie, they a darker, grittier interpretation of Batman in were given nightmares by the Penguin with the movies. black bile drooling from his mouth. Parents ; photo courtesy of Bruce Scivally. complained to M.CH.: WHAT CAUSED McDonalds and BATMAN RETURNS TO Warner Bros., so PERFORM SO POORLY? the studio decided Billion Dollar Batman B.S.: The 1989 that for the third Batman movie Batman film, they was a masterpiece BATMAN & ROBIN should get a di‑ cosplayer reading of marketing, SEEMED MORE LIKE rector who would tioned, Schumacher was under a directive M.CH.: WHAT MADE NOLAN MOVIES A WORLDWIDE PHENOMENON? becoming one deliver a more from Warner Bros. to make the Batman films AREN’t THEY A bIT OVERRATED? THEIR PLOTS SEEM TO HAVE A LOT OF of the highest‑ A THROWBACK TO THE kid ‑friendly film, more kid ‑friendly and win back some of the ILLOGICAL TURNING POINTS, ESPECIALLY THE DARK KNIGHT RISES... ‑grossing films and so they chose corporate sponsors who bailed after Batman B.S.: Christopher Nolan’s Batman trilogy was of all time. The 1960S TV SERIES. Joel Schumacher. Returns. He succeeded in those tasks, but his built on the premise of taking the character , Henry Gray Publishing; a sequel, released second film,Batman & Robin, seemed more out of the fantasy worlds of Tim Burton and three years later, M.CH.: WHAT CAN YOU like a throwback to the 1960s TV series, and Joel Schumacher and thinking about how spent more time TELL US ABOUT THE alienated many hard ‑core fans. Nonetheless, Batman would exist in the real world. At the on the Penguin CINEMA INDUSTRY AND it was still financially successful. After critics same time, Nolan was heavily influenced Billion Dollar Batman and Catwoman POP CULTURE STATUS IN slammed the film, Schumacher planned to by the James Bond films, especiallyOn Her than on Batman, who seemed like a guest star THE SCHUMACHER ERA? IN WHAT WAY DID THE FAILURE OF BATMAN make a much lower ‑budgeted, grittier Batman Majesty’s Secret Service, so the plots had in his own movie. One of the tie ‑in marketing & ROBIN CHANGE THE PERSPECTIVE OF PRODUCERS AND INDUSTRY? film, but the studio pulled the plug and began some rather fantastic gadgetry and action partners was McDonald’s, who promoted B.S.: Schumacher is often derided by Batman looking for another director to revitalize the sequences. The Dark Knight, because of the the film through Happy Meals. However, fans who sum up his two films with four franchise. death of Heath Ledger, became a cultural Illustrations: The cover of when little kids who saw Batman on their words: “nipples on the Batsuit.” As I men‑ phenomenon, quickly becoming the second INTERVIEW M.CH.: HOW DID THE IMAGE OF THE MALE HERO CHANGE THROU- 42 Kilmer and George Clooney, both of whom GHOUT ALL OF BATMAN’S HISTORY? HOW WAS HE PORTRAYED IN had athletic physiques. When Christian Bale VARIOUS ERAS AND IN WHAT WAYS WAS HE A REFLECTION OF THE became Batman, he underwent strenuous TIMES? FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE weight training to get a muscular physique, LEADING MALE CHARACTER FROM THE GOLDEN AGE OF COMICS AND which he maintained for his next two outings THE ONE FEATURED IN THE ADAM WEST TV SERIES? as the Caped Crusader. B.S.: In the comic books, Batman has always had a bodybuilder’s physique. In the serials M.CH.: IN WHAT EXACTLY DOES THE IMPORTANCE OF BATMAN in 1943 and 1949, Batman was paunchy, CONSIST? WHAT IS HIS ESSENCE? more like the average American of the day. B.S.: Unlike Superman, who represents go‑ When Adam West was cast as Batman for odness and hope, Batman is a character who more time focusing on the villains the TV show, he had a slim physique, but represent revenge and our darker impulses. than on Batman, and the plot was doubled in many of the action scenes In the introduction to my book, I say that seemed to be overburdened with by a pot ‑bellied stuntman, giving rise to the while Superman represents who we aspire to twists that didn’t stand up to close mistaken perception that West himself was be, Batman represents who we are. scrutiny. For myself, I enjoyed the out of shape. West’s slender physique was in film, but felt it was a bit bloated. It keeping with the style of the 1960s, when M.CH.: WHAT FASCINATES YOU MOST ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR certainly didn’t have the narrative a slim build was considered preferable to STORY? ARE YOU INTERESTED IN CERTAIN HEROES, OR IS IT gusto of The Dark Knight, tho‑ being “muscle bound”; this can also be seen SIMPLY ALL ABOUT THE ATMOSPHERE? ugh I think it is a better film than in the selection of Ron Ely as TV’s Tarzan, B.S.: I was about 6 years old when the Bat‑ Batman Begins.