The Council, 31/07/08

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THE COUNCIL, 31/07/08

Present: Councillor Evie Morgan Jones (Chair) Councillor Anne Lloyd Jones (Vice-chair) Councillors: Bob Anderson, S W Churchman, Anwen Davies, E T Dogan, Dyfed Edwards, Dylan Edwards, Huw Edwards, Trevor Edwards, T G Ellis, Alan Jones Evans, Alun Wyn Evans, Jean Forsyth, K Greenly-Jones, Gwen Griffith, Margaret Griffith, Alwyn Gruffydd, Siân Gwenllian, Christopher Hughes, Dafydd Ll Hughes, Huw Price Hughes, Louise Hughes, O P Huws, Aeron M Jones, Brian Jones, Charles W Jones, Dai Rees Jones, Dyfrig Wynn Jones, Eric Merfyn Jones, John Gwilym Jones, J R Jones, John Wynn Jones, Linda Wyn Jones, R L Jones, Penri Jones, Eryl Jones-Williams, P.G.Larsen, Dewi Lewis, Dilwyn Lloyd, June Marshall, Keith Marshall, J W Meredith, Llinos Merks, Linda Morgan, Dewi Owen, W Roy Owen, W Tudor Owen, Arwel Pierce, Peter Read, Dafydd W Roberts, Caerwyn Roberts, Glyn Roberts, Gwilym Euros Roberts, John Pughe Roberts, Liz Saville Roberts, Siôn Selwyn Roberts, Trevor Roberts, W Gareth Roberts, Dyfrig Siencyn, Ann Williams, Gethin Glyn Williams, Gwilym Williams, J.W.Williams, Owain Williams, R H Wyn Williams and Robert J Wright.

Also present: Harry Thomas (Chief Executive), Dilwyn Williams (Strategic Director - Resources), Dewi Rowlands (Strategic Director - Environment), Dafydd Edwards (Head of Finance), Dilys Phillips (Monitoring Officer/Head of Administration and Public Protection), Gareth Wyn Jones (Senior Legal and Administrative Manager), Arwel Ellis Jones (Senior Manager - Policy and Operational), Ann Owen (Policy and Performance Manager, Economy and Regeneration), Sharon Warnes (Senior Policy and Performance Manager - Development), Dylan Griffiths (Strategic and Financing Planning Manager), Eleri Parry (Senior Committee Manager)

Invitees: Heulyn Davies, Senior Welsh Affairs Manager, Royal Mail Group Wales, Dave Wall, External Relations Manager, Post Office Ltd. , Alan Knowles, Field Change Advisor, Post Office Ltd.; Eifion Pritchard, Chairman, Postwatch Wales and Keith Richards, Welsh Operations Manager, National Federation of Sub-postmasters.

Apologies: Councillors EIwyn Edwards, Simon Glyn, Selwyn Griffiths, Sylvia Humphreys, Dewi Llewelyn, Ieuan Roberts, Ioan Thomas, Guto Rhys Tomos

1 PRAYER

The meeting was opened with a prayer by Councillor Dyfed Edwards.

2 MINUTES

The Chair signed minutes of the previous Council Meeting held on 19 June as a true record.

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3 DECLARATION OF PERSONAL INTEREST

The following members declared a personal interest for the reasons noted and withdrew from the chamber during the discussions on those items:-

Councillors S Churchman and Dewi Lewis in the item “Post Office Ltd’s Network Change Programme” since they own Post Offices in Gwynedd.

Councillor Linda Wyn Jones in the notice of motion regarding bulky waste since she was a Director of Cwmni Seren, which collected bulky waste.

4 CHAIRMAN’S ANNOUNCEMENTS

Congratulations were extended to Alun Ffred Jones AM and former Leader of this Council on being chosen the Minister for Heritage in the Assembly Government Cabinet.

Condolences were extended to Councillor Arwel Pierce on losing his mother-in-law recently.

Condolences were extended to everyone who had recently lost loved ones and the Council stood in silence as a mark of respect and sympathy.

5 CORRESPONDENCE, COMMUNICATIONS OR OTHER BUSINESS

(i) Reported, for information, that a letter had been received from West Lothian Council expressing concern regarding the increase in fuel prices and requesting the Council to call on the Westminster Government to act in order to mitigate the problems.

It was further reported that the Council Board, in its meeting on 29 July, had already expressed concern regarding the situation and had resolved to write to the Chancellor expressing concern to this end.

6 URGENT BUSINESS

(i) It was reported that an urgent notice of motion had been received from Councillor Gwilym Euros Roberts regarding the Ambulance Service and that the Chair had agreed that the matter be considered by the Council. However, following a meeting between Councillor Gwilym Euros Roberts, the Ambulance Service, the Assembly Member and the Member of Parliament on the morning of the Council, it was reported that the member wished to withdraw his motion.

(ii) The Chair agreed, under Section 100B (4)(b) of the Local Government Act 1972, to include a question from Councillor Alwyn Gruffydd regarding the use of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA) because the matter had appeared in the press very recently, after the Council agenda had been published.

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7 POST OFFICE LTD’S NETWORK CHANGE PROGRAMME IN RELATION TO GWYNEDD

(a) The Chair welcomed to the Council, representatives of the Royal Mail Group Wales, Post Office Ltd., Postwatch Wales and the National Federation of Sub-postmasters.

Background

Since the UK Government had identified that fewer people were using Post Office branches, partly owing to the fact that traditional services, including benefit payments and other services, were available by other means, the Government had decided to change the Post Office Ltd network to make it more sustainable.

In May 2007, bills had been published by the UK Government for the restructuring and modernisation of the network and Post Office Ltd had now drawn up The Network Change Programme which meant closing 2,500 UK branches and, in some cases, introducing new ways of providing the services through “Outreach”.

Proposals had been provided by Post Office Ltd. for approximately 50 different areas and the proposals for the provision in North Wales, including Gwynedd, were subject to public consultation between 29 July and 15 September 2008.

Postwatch Wales, an independent body monitoring postal services, would be working with Post Office Ltd. and local communities to assess the proposals in order to ensure the best outcome for customers in the different areas.

(b) The Chief Executive spoke briefly.

It was reported that the Council had already embarked upon the work of gathering evidence and a working group would be looking at the proposals in August in order to draw up a formal response for submission and for consideration by the relevant committee at the beginning of/mid September.

(i) Heulyn Davies, Senior Welsh Affairs Manager, Royal Mail Group Wales on the Network Change Programme and New Ways of providing services through “outreach”.

(ii) Eifion Pritchard, Chair of Postwatch Wales, on the work of the independent body which monitored the postal services and worked with Post Office Ltd. and local communities to assess the proposals.

(iii) Keith Richards from the National Federation of Sub-postmasters regarding the sub- postmasters situation and views.

Members were given every opportunity to ask questions of the representatives and the Council Chair thanked them for their presentations and responses.

8 QUESTIONS

Question from Councillor Eryl Jones-Williams:

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A notice of question had been received from Councillor Eryl Jones-Williams but the councillor explained that he had received a satisfactory response to his enquiry from the Portfolio Holder and that he no longer wished to ask the question.

Question from Councillor Alwyn Gruffydd

“Why is Gwynedd the second- highest user of RIPA of councils in Wales?

Twenty of Gwynedd’s officers have authority to operate the act; is this reasonable/essential?

Is there justification for using an Act originally intended to combat serious crimes and terrorism, against the citizens of Gwynedd?”

Response from Councillor John R Jones, Senior Portfolio Leader - Resources

“RIPA stands for Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. The Act provides a framework for ensuring that there are proper checks and balances when public authorities authorise and conduct covert surveillance. It is there to ensure that private individuals are protected from unwarranted intrusion. It is wrong to say that it was brought in to combat terrorism or serious crime. Its purpose is to enable public authorities, when undertaking surveillance work, to do so in a way which is compatible with the European Convention on Human Rights. It is intended as a protection for citizens. The Council does not have access to information about the approach to or the use made by other authorities of the legislation. The Council has authorised the use of surveillance under the Act on a total of 133 occasions in the 30 month period between 1 January 2006 and 23 June 2008.

The vast majority of authorisations related to the investigation of alleged benefit fraud, in particular offences under the Social Security Administration Act 1992 relating to failure to declare partners and failure to declare employment. The other instances in which authorisation were granted related to investigations of alleged anti social behaviour and theft. It is a Council requirement that before any officer can authorise surveillance activity he or she has received formal training. A number of officers at Manager level and above have received the training but only 5 have actually sought and been given power to authorise the activity. A central record of all authorisations is kept, which includes the reasons why surveillance is considered necessary. External inspectors periodically inspect the Council’s processes relating to the Act.”

Supplementary Question from Councillor Alwyn Gruffydd

“Is it possible for elected members and the public to be informed of the occasions on which it can be used?”

Response from the Monitoring Officer

“That is possible within the limitations of the Data Protection Act.”

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9 COUNCIL’S THREE YEAR PLAN

Submitted, for Council approval, the final version of the Three Year Plan.

(i) It was reported that the Three Year Plan sought to offer a clear and co-ordinated focus to the work of the Council. It established a longer term planning horizon for the Council – breaking in for the first time into the annual planning cycle, and concentrating on the main priorities, making the biggest difference to the county and its people and providing a focus on delivery and looking forward even at a difficult financial time.

(ii) A draft of the plan had been approved for consultation purposes in the Council meeting at the end of February 2008 and detailed attention had been given to the main observations received during the consultation.

(iii) £300,000 permanent revenue had been included in the 2008/09 Financial Strategy for the funding of any new commitments arising from the plan and the Management Team would continue to challenge and verify the proposed use of the money, reporting to the Council Board on recommendations prior to releasing any resources.

The Chief Executive was thanked for convening sessions on the Three Year Plan and for providing new members with an opportunity to be part of the Plan.

While agreeing that much was to be welcomed in the Plan, a member was of the opinion that it was not ambitious enough, not challenging enough and that it did not give sufficient attention to rural affairs. Many wished to defer making a decision in order to give new members an opportunity to have more input into the Plan.

It was emphasised that the Plan was relevant to the whole of Wales – to rural and urban areas alike, and that it was a live document. It was explained that there would be opportunities to review, improve and modify the Plan regularly, and members were encouraged to approve it.

An amendment was proposed and seconded to “to defer making a decision in order to give new members an opportunity to have input into the Three Year Plan.”

In accordance with Procedural Rule 19 (6) the following vote was recorded:

For (17)

Councillors: Anwen Davies, Alwyn Gruffydd, Christopher Hughes, Dafydd Ll Hughes, Louise Hughes, Aeron M Jones, Eric Merfyn Jones, Eryl Jones-Williams, Dilwyn Lloyd, Llinos Merks, Peter Read, Gwilym Euros Roberts, Siôn Selwyn Roberts, Gethin Glyn Williams, Gwilym Williams, Owain Williams and Robert J Wright.

Against (46)

Councillors: Bob Anderson, S W Churchman, E T Dogan, Dyfed Edwards, Dylan Edwards, Huw Edwards, T G Ellis, Alan Jones Evans, Alun Wyn Evans, Jean Forsyth, K Greenly-Jones, Gwen Griffith, Margaret Griffith, Siân Gwenllian, Huw Price Hughes, Anne Lloyd Jones, Charles W Jones, Dai Rees Jones, Dyfrig Wynn Jones, Evie Morgan Jones, John Gwilym Jones, J R Jones, John Wynn Jones, Linda Wyn Jones, R L Jones, Penri Jones, P.G.Larsen, Dewi Lewis, June Marshall, Keith Marshall, J W Meredith, Linda Morgan, Dewi Owen, W

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Tudor Owen, Arwel Pierce, Dafydd W Roberts, Caerwyn Roberts, Glyn Roberts, John Pughe Roberts, Liz Saville Roberts, Trevor Roberts, W Gareth Roberts, Dyfrig Siencyn, Ann Williams, J.W.Williams and R H Wyn Williams.

Abstentions (0)

The following members had withdrawn from the chamber before the vote had been taken:- Trevor Edwards, O P Huws, Brian Jones and W Roy Owen

The Chair declared that the amendment had fallen.

Voting was held on the original proposal and the proposal was carried.

RESOLVED (i) to approve the final version of the Gwynedd Council Three Year Plan (ii) To authorise the Head of Policy and Performance to complete minor changes to the plan prior to its printing.

10 APPOINTMENT OF A COMMUNITY COMMITTEE MEMBER TO THE STANDARDS COMMITTEE

Submitted – the report of the Monitoring Officer,

Reported that (i) the Council had recently re-appointed two independent members and appointed three elected members from the Council to the Standards Committee, and that a new ‘Community Committee Member’ needed to be appointed. (ii) that the appointment panel had considered the application against the relevant criteria and had recommended appointing the applicant.

RESOLVED to appoint Councillor Ashley Michael David Clay to serve as the Community Committee Member of the Standards Committee for a period of four years or until the next ordinary elections for community councils, whichever is the shorter.

11 TAXATION POLICY

Submitted – the report of the Strategic Director – Resources, on adopting a taxation policy for a period of four years.

(i) It was reported that a taxation policy was needed in order to set out a framework for the medium term, and to be of assistance when undertaking financial planning for the medium term. The policy should reflect the Council’s attitude towards the emphasis on spending on services on the one hand and the fact that ratepayers were expected to pay for those services on the other hand. A balance needed to be struck between expenditure and taxation.

(ii) Reference was made to four possible options. Details were given of the advantages and disadvantages of those options and it was explained that the Board had recommended setting a Council Tax policy which would restrict the increase in the Council Tax to a band equivalent to -1% to +1% per annum of the average increase across Wales.

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A member expressed grave concern regarding the fact that between 2005/06 and 2010/11, Gwynedd Council had received the second lowest settlement throughout the whole of Wales, equivalent to £6.6m to the Council. He noted that a cross party delegation should be sent to Cardiff in order to draw the Assembly’s attention to the unfairness in relation to regular poor settlements and to fighting for basic services.

In response, it was emphasised that the Council was applying pressure in various fora in seeking to ensure fairness to rural areas. Reference was made to specific efforts by the Chief Executive, the Strategic Director – Resources, and the Council Leader in seeking to improve the situation, and reference was made to various Council successes in lobbying e.g. success in getting the Assembly’s Rural Affairs Sub-committee to submit a report on supporting the giving of more attention to rural affairs in the formula, and delaying the implementation of the Professor Bramley formula. It was noted that co-operation was needed with other Welsh councils, and it was emphasised that powerful lobbying would continue.

RESOLVED to adopt a taxation policy which would limit an increase in the Council Tax for the council’s four year period to a band equivalent to -1% -+1% per annum of the average increase across Wales.

12 NOTICES OF MOTION

(a) (i) Submitted – the following notice of motion received from Councillor Aeron Maldwyn Jones under Procedural Rule no. 13 along with a procedural notice under Procedural Rule 13(12) requesting that the matter be discussed in the Council instead of being referred first to committee:-

RESOLVED to discuss the motion in this meeting.

The following motion was proposed and seconded:-

“The County Council charges its taxpayers a fee for collecting items such as freezers, mattresses and other bulky items from their homes - a service that was previously provided free of charge and as part of the Council rates.

By charging our taxpayers, it causes these items to be left on the side of highways or in other remote locations in our areas, which creates pollution and also gives a bad impression to any tourists that visit during our seasons.

In addition, it creates a financial strain on the vulnerable within our society such as the elderly and those who can not afford a car to take the items to the appropriate centres.

I therefore propose that the fees be abolished and that the former regime be implemented whereby the County’s taxpayers are allowed three items per year free of charge”.

(ii) Submitted – a report by the Head of Highways and Municipal outlining the main considerations and noting the advantages and disadvantages of the motion.

Early in 2008 the Board resolved to change the arrangements for (initial) free collections, and a fee of £32.90 in addition to this for every additional collection, to a new procedure

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for 2008/09, of charging £15 for every collection of up to a total of five items. The new procedure allowed the Council to control the use of the service and the costs, to set a more reasonable fee on collections, and to contribute a sum estimated at £50k from the Council’s annual savings.

At the same time, the Head of Service was requested to give further consideration to arrangements for addressing the needs of elderly and vulnerable people, reporting in good time for 2009/2010 to the relevant scrutiny committee or working group of that committee.

A full discussion was had on the motion and the advantages and disadvantages were weighed up.

It was noted that providing a service free of charge would be a popular step forward in terms of the residents, it would fulfil the need to address the needs of vulnerable people and it would silence assertions that the procedure had lead to fly tipping.

Some members were of the strong opinion that fly tipping was an increasing problem and very costly for the Council.

It was, however, explained, that the demand for collections had reduced significantly, that there was better use of amenity sites, and it was emphasised that no increase had been recorded in the cases of fly tipping. It was noted that it was possible that the income target of £50k would not be reached this year.

It was agreed that the needs of vulnerable residents needed to be addressed. Many were of the opinion, however, that the discussion was currently premature since arrangements were in the pipeline to establish a procedure to respond to requests for bulky collections, which would include a procedure for identifying and confirming requests from vulnerable residents. It was noted that a report to this end would be submitted to the Environment Scrutiny Committee in September 2008.

It was strongly emphasised that no resources were available to provide a service free of charge, and should it be resolved to provide a service free of charge, another service would have to be cut in order to find the necessary savings.

It was noted that it had to be ensured that civic amenity sites had been established across the county, and that it must be ensured that the county’s residents were familiar with waste disposal arrangements – including recycling.

A vote was held on the motion and in accordance with Procedural Rule 19 (6) the following vote was recorded:-

For (19)

Councillors: S Churchman, Anwen Davies, Jean Forsyth, Alwyn Gruffydd, Christopher Hughes, Dafydd Ll Hughes, Louise Hughes, Aeron M Jones, J R Jones, Eryl Jones-Williams, Dilwyn Lloyd, June Marshall, Llinos Merks, Peter Read, Gwilym Euros Roberts, Siôn Selwyn Roberts, Gethin Glyn Williams, Owain Williams and Robert J Wright

Against (37)

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Councillors: E T Dogan, Dyfed Edwards, Dylan Edwards, Huw Edwards, T G Ellis, Alan Jones Evans, Alun Wyn Evans, Gwen Griffith, Margaret Griffith, Siân Gwenllian, Huw Price Hughes, Anne Lloyd Jones, Charles W Jones, Dai Rees Jones, Dyfrig Wynn Jones, Evie Morgan Jones, John Wynn Jones, R L Jones, Penri Jones, P.G.Larsen, Dewi Lewis, J W Meredith, Linda Morgan, Dewi Owen, Arwel Pierce, Dafydd W Roberts, Caerwyn Roberts, Glyn Roberts, John Pughe Roberts, Liz Saville Roberts, Trevor Roberts, W Gareth Roberts, Dyfrig Siencyn, Ann Williams, Gwilym Williams, J.W.Williams and R H Wyn Williams.

Abstentions (1)

Councillor: Keith Marshall

(Many members had left the meeting since the previous recorded vote)

RESOLVED not to adopt the motion.

(B) (i) Submitted – the following notice of motion received from Councillor Gwilym Euros Roberts under Procedural Rule no. 13 along with a procedural notice under Procedural Rule 13(12) requesting that the matter be discussed in the Council instead of being first referred to committee:-

RESOLVED to discuss the motion in this meeting.

The following motion was proposed and seconded:-

‘That this Council writes to Mr Ieuan Wyn Jones A.M., Deputy First Minister of Wales and Minister for the Economy and Transport to request him to authorise a Freight Facilities Grant to upgrade the Conwy Valley Line and to provide a multi-modal freight terminal at Blaenau Ffestiniog - that would be available to any future rail freight users - as soon as possible.

Authorising this Grant would create at least fifty jobs in Blaenau Ffestiniog, develop and future-proof the Conwy Valley Line, and deliver considerable benefits to the environment, whilst contributing significantly to WAG’s aspiration regarding aggregates (i.e. that secondary aggregates should form 25% of aggregate produced in Wales), by utilising Blaenau slate waste and transporting it from Blaenau to the world.’

(i) Submitted – a report by the Head of Economy and Regeneration outlining the background to the motion.

It was explained that the plan could bring advantages to the community of Ffestiniog and the wider area by offering new jobs and opportunities, maintaining the Conwy Valley Railway as a viable transport route, and developing the status of Blaenau Ffestiniog as a transport exchange.

It was noted that members and officers had worked consistently to have a dialogue with the Assembly, requesting it to keep the possibility of realising the plan high on the agenda, ensuring that the strategic justification of the plan was included in the strategic documents. It was also noted that the plan had been identified as a strategic priority project by the Council for the Convergence Programme.

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An amendment to add a paragraph to the motion as follows was proposed and seconded: “That the Council also writes to the NDA and National Rail encouraging them to invest substantially to upgrade the railway line and every relevant junction in order to enable the nuclear service to decommission Trawsfynydd Nuclear Power Station by using the line”

With the agreement of the proposer and seconder, it was agreed to add the following amendment to the original motion.

A vote was had on the following revised amendment and the amendment was carried:-

“That this Council writes to Mr Ieuan Wyn Jones A.M., Deputy First Minister of Wales and Minister for the Economy and Transport to request him to authorise a Freight Facilities Grant to upgrade the Conwy Valley Line and to provide a multi-modal freight terminal at Blaenau Ffestiniog - that would be available to any future rail freight users - as soon as possible.

That the Council also writes to the NDA and National Rail encouraging them to invest substantially to upgrade the railway line and every relevant junction in order to enable the nuclear service to decommission Trawsfynydd Nuclear Power Station by using the line”

RESOLVED to adopt the revised motion and to authorise the Strategic Director – Development to act thereon.

The meeting commenced at 2:00 p.m. and concluded at 5:10 p.m.