Y CYNGOR 31/07/08 THE COUNCIL, 31/07/08 Present: Councillor Evie Morgan Jones (Chair) Councillor Anne Lloyd Jones (Vice-chair) Councillors: Bob Anderson, S W Churchman, Anwen Davies, E T Dogan, Dyfed Edwards, Dylan Edwards, Huw Edwards, Trevor Edwards, T G Ellis, Alan Jones Evans, Alun Wyn Evans, Jean Forsyth, K Greenly-Jones, Gwen Griffith, Margaret Griffith, Alwyn Gruffydd, Siân Gwenllian, Christopher Hughes, Dafydd Ll Hughes, Huw Price Hughes, Louise Hughes, O P Huws, Aeron M Jones, Brian Jones, Charles W Jones, Dai Rees Jones, Dyfrig Wynn Jones, Eric Merfyn Jones, John Gwilym Jones, J R Jones, John Wynn Jones, Linda Wyn Jones, R L Jones, Penri Jones, Eryl Jones-Williams, P.G.Larsen, Dewi Lewis, Dilwyn Lloyd, June Marshall, Keith Marshall, J W Meredith, Llinos Merks, Linda Morgan, Dewi Owen, W Roy Owen, W Tudor Owen, Arwel Pierce, Peter Read, Dafydd W Roberts, Caerwyn Roberts, Glyn Roberts, Gwilym Euros Roberts, John Pughe Roberts, Liz Saville Roberts, Siôn Selwyn Roberts, Trevor Roberts, W Gareth Roberts, Dyfrig Siencyn, Ann Williams, Gethin Glyn Williams, Gwilym Williams, J.W.Williams, Owain Williams, R H Wyn Williams and Robert J Wright. Also present: Harry Thomas (Chief Executive), Dilwyn Williams (Strategic Director - Resources), Dewi Rowlands (Strategic Director - Environment), Dafydd Edwards (Head of Finance), Dilys Phillips (Monitoring Officer/Head of Administration and Public Protection), Gareth Wyn Jones (Senior Legal and Administrative Manager), Arwel Ellis Jones (Senior Manager - Policy and Operational), Ann Owen (Policy and Performance Manager, Economy and Regeneration), Sharon Warnes (Senior Policy and Performance Manager - Development), Dylan Griffiths (Strategic and Financing Planning Manager), Eleri Parry (Senior Committee Manager) Invitees: Heulyn Davies, Senior Welsh Affairs Manager, Royal Mail Group Wales, Dave Wall, External Relations Manager, Post Office Ltd. , Alan Knowles, Field Change Advisor, Post Office Ltd.; Eifion Pritchard, Chairman, Postwatch Wales and Keith Richards, Welsh Operations Manager, National Federation of Sub-postmasters. Apologies: Councillors EIwyn Edwards, Simon Glyn, Selwyn Griffiths, Sylvia Humphreys, Dewi Llewelyn, Ieuan Roberts, Ioan Thomas, Guto Rhys Tomos 1 PRAYER The meeting was opened with a prayer by Councillor Dyfed Edwards. 2 MINUTES The Chair signed minutes of the previous Council Meeting held on 19 June as a true record. 1 Y CYNGOR 31/07/08 3 DECLARATION OF PERSONAL INTEREST The following members declared a personal interest for the reasons noted and withdrew from the chamber during the discussions on those items:- Councillors S Churchman and Dewi Lewis in the item “Post Office Ltd’s Network Change Programme” since they own Post Offices in Gwynedd. Councillor Linda Wyn Jones in the notice of motion regarding bulky waste since she was a Director of Cwmni Seren, which collected bulky waste. 4 CHAIRMAN’S ANNOUNCEMENTS Congratulations were extended to Alun Ffred Jones AM and former Leader of this Council on being chosen the Minister for Heritage in the Assembly Government Cabinet. Condolences were extended to Councillor Arwel Pierce on losing his mother-in-law recently. Condolences were extended to everyone who had recently lost loved ones and the Council stood in silence as a mark of respect and sympathy. 5 CORRESPONDENCE, COMMUNICATIONS OR OTHER BUSINESS (i) Reported, for information, that a letter had been received from West Lothian Council expressing concern regarding the increase in fuel prices and requesting the Council to call on the Westminster Government to act in order to mitigate the problems. It was further reported that the Council Board, in its meeting on 29 July, had already expressed concern regarding the situation and had resolved to write to the Chancellor expressing concern to this end. 6 URGENT BUSINESS (i) It was reported that an urgent notice of motion had been received from Councillor Gwilym Euros Roberts regarding the Ambulance Service and that the Chair had agreed that the matter be considered by the Council. However, following a meeting between Councillor Gwilym Euros Roberts, the Ambulance Service, the Assembly Member and the Member of Parliament on the morning of the Council, it was reported that the member wished to withdraw his motion. (ii) The Chair agreed, under Section 100B (4)(b) of the Local Government Act 1972, to include a question from Councillor Alwyn Gruffydd regarding the use of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA) because the matter had appeared in the press very recently, after the Council agenda had been published. 2 Y CYNGOR 31/07/08 7 POST OFFICE LTD’S NETWORK CHANGE PROGRAMME IN RELATION TO GWYNEDD (a) The Chair welcomed to the Council, representatives of the Royal Mail Group Wales, Post Office Ltd., Postwatch Wales and the National Federation of Sub-postmasters. Background Since the UK Government had identified that fewer people were using Post Office branches, partly owing to the fact that traditional services, including benefit payments and other services, were available by other means, the Government had decided to change the Post Office Ltd network to make it more sustainable. In May 2007, bills had been published by the UK Government for the restructuring and modernisation of the network and Post Office Ltd had now drawn up The Network Change Programme which meant closing 2,500 UK branches and, in some cases, introducing new ways of providing the services through “Outreach”. Proposals had been provided by Post Office Ltd. for approximately 50 different areas and the proposals for the provision in North Wales, including Gwynedd, were subject to public consultation between 29 July and 15 September 2008. Postwatch Wales, an independent body monitoring postal services, would be working with Post Office Ltd. and local communities to assess the proposals in order to ensure the best outcome for customers in the different areas. (b) The Chief Executive spoke briefly. It was reported that the Council had already embarked upon the work of gathering evidence and a working group would be looking at the proposals in August in order to draw up a formal response for submission and for consideration by the relevant committee at the beginning of/mid September. (c) Presentations were given by the following:- (i) Heulyn Davies, Senior Welsh Affairs Manager, Royal Mail Group Wales on the Network Change Programme and New Ways of providing services through “outreach”. (ii) Eifion Pritchard, Chair of Postwatch Wales, on the work of the independent body which monitored the postal services and worked with Post Office Ltd. and local communities to assess the proposals. (iii) Keith Richards from the National Federation of Sub-postmasters regarding the sub- postmasters situation and views. Members were given every opportunity to ask questions of the representatives and the Council Chair thanked them for their presentations and responses. 8 QUESTIONS Question from Councillor Eryl Jones-Williams: 3 Y CYNGOR 31/07/08 A notice of question had been received from Councillor Eryl Jones-Williams but the councillor explained that he had received a satisfactory response to his enquiry from the Portfolio Holder and that he no longer wished to ask the question. Question from Councillor Alwyn Gruffydd “Why is Gwynedd the second- highest user of RIPA of councils in Wales? Twenty of Gwynedd’s officers have authority to operate the act; is this reasonable/essential? Is there justification for using an Act originally intended to combat serious crimes and terrorism, against the citizens of Gwynedd?” Response from Councillor John R Jones, Senior Portfolio Leader - Resources “RIPA stands for Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. The Act provides a framework for ensuring that there are proper checks and balances when public authorities authorise and conduct covert surveillance. It is there to ensure that private individuals are protected from unwarranted intrusion. It is wrong to say that it was brought in to combat terrorism or serious crime. Its purpose is to enable public authorities, when undertaking surveillance work, to do so in a way which is compatible with the European Convention on Human Rights. It is intended as a protection for citizens. The Council does not have access to information about the approach to or the use made by other authorities of the legislation. The Council has authorised the use of surveillance under the Act on a total of 133 occasions in the 30 month period between 1 January 2006 and 23 June 2008. The vast majority of authorisations related to the investigation of alleged benefit fraud, in particular offences under the Social Security Administration Act 1992 relating to failure to declare partners and failure to declare employment. The other instances in which authorisation were granted related to investigations of alleged anti social behaviour and theft. It is a Council requirement that before any officer can authorise surveillance activity he or she has received formal training. A number of officers at Manager level and above have received the training but only 5 have actually sought and been given power to authorise the activity. A central record of all authorisations is kept, which includes the reasons why surveillance is considered necessary. External inspectors periodically inspect the Council’s processes relating to the Act.” Supplementary Question from Councillor Alwyn Gruffydd “Is it possible for elected members and the public to be informed of the occasions on which it can be used?” Response from the Monitoring Officer “That is possible within the limitations of the Data Protection Act.” 4 Y CYNGOR 31/07/08 9 COUNCIL’S THREE YEAR PLAN Submitted, for Council approval, the final version of the Three Year Plan. (i) It was reported that the Three Year Plan sought to offer a clear and co-ordinated focus to the work of the Council. It established a longer term planning horizon for the Council – breaking in for the first time into the annual planning cycle, and concentrating on the main priorities, making the biggest difference to the county and its people and providing a focus on delivery and looking forward even at a difficult financial time.