30 Oct 1996 Papers 3629

WEDNESDAY, 30 OCTOBER 1996 DISTINGUISHED VISITOR Mr F. Turner Mr SPEAKER: Order! As Speaker, one Mr SPEAKER (Hon. N. J. Turner, Nicklin) acknowledges visiting dignitaries and members of Parliament in the public gallery. read prayers and took the chair at 9.30 a.m. Today, I believe I create a part of history in welcoming the most important dignitary whom PRIVILEGE I will ever welcome in the Speaker's Gallery—my 97 year old father. Resignation of Mr K. Carruthers, QC Honourable members: Hear, hear! Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central—Leader Mr Mackenroth: May you live as long, of the Opposition) (9.31 a.m.): I rise on a Mr Speaker. matter of privilege. Yesterday saw the forced resignation of former Supreme Court Judge Mr Mr SPEAKER: If I take it easy and do Kenneth Carruthers, QC, as head of an inquiry not work very hard like he did, I am sure that I into a secret deal involving the Premier and will live to his age. the Police Minister. I rise to inform Parliament that this PETITIONS morning I delivered a letter to the Premier The Clerk announced the receipt of the pointing out the seriousness of this matter and following petitions— indicating that, unfortunately, unless the Government moves within the next 24 hours to amend the terms of reference or the Gun Control Laws enabling legislation to allow the Carruthers From Mr Littleproud (269 signatories) inquiry to continue without any outside requesting the House to explain why it interference then, regrettably, we have no considers that the nation's law-makers have a alternative but to move a motion of no clear and urgent duty to legislate against the confidence in this Government in an attempt lawful owners of firearms in Queensland in to restore integrity and honesty to the order to fulfil an obligation to the Federal Government of Queensland. I table the letter Government instead of pursuing a royal for the information of the House. commission into the Port Arthur incident.

Coconut Palms and Seedlings, PRIVILEGE Hinchinbrook Area Letter from Leader of Opposition From Mr Rowell (442 signatories) Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers requesting the House to put an end to all Paradise—Premier) (9.32 a.m.): I rise on a future destruction of coconut palms and matter of privilege. I thank the Leader of the seedlings in the Family Island Group, Goold Opposition for tabling the letter. He did not Island, Brook Islands and Hinchinbrook Island have the decency to deliver it to me before he areas until such time as a proper process of raised it in this place. consultation is established between the Department of Environment and Heritage and Mr BEATTIE: The letter has already local community organisations representing been delivered and I have tabled it for the the recreational and commercial users of information of the House. these regions. Mr Borbidge: Another lie. Petitions received. Mr BEATTIE: Mr Speaker, I take the strongest possible objection to what the PAPERS Premier has just said. I have tabled the letter. It was delivered to his office. It is not my The following papers were laid on the responsibility if the Premier does not receive table— an urgent communication from the Leader of (a) Minister for Education (Mr Quinn)— the Opposition. Department of Education—Annual Report Mr Gibbs: What do you want—a tissue for 1995-96 or a napkin? (b) Minister for Natural Resources (Mr Hobbs)— Mr SPEAKER: Order! Does the Department of Natural Resources—Annual member for Bundamba want a 123A? Report for 1995-96 3630 Ministerial Statement 30 Oct 1996

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT winter off-season of northern hemisphere Alumina and Lychee Export countries. Opportunities This advantage will also mean that hotel Hon. D. J. SLACK (Burnett—Minister guests in Asia will soon be eating quality for Economic Development and Trade and Stanthorpe apples. Not only do we produce Minister Assisting the Premier) (9.36 a.m.), by the Pink Lady variety in the northern off- leave: I wish to inform the House of two major season but we also produce it earlier than any export developments that have the potential other Australian State. I am informed that the to create additional jobs and wealth for Federal Government is working towards Queensland. signing a protocol to allow more Australian fruit into China. I am pleased to report that Last week, whilst leading a trade mission Queensland's fruit producers are poised to through China, I inspected two of the 10 export the Grown in Queensland label to manufacturing plants of the Brisbane/China premium markets around the world, such as company, Sky Trading. These plants process quality hotels. non-ferrous metals—a major Queensland export to China. In particular, these plants process Queensland alumina. The company is MINISTERIAL STATEMENT looking to expand in order to cater for the Regional Forest Agreements major economic development that China is undergoing. The company expects to increase Hon. H. W. T. HOBBS (Warrego— its annual importation from 20,000 tonnes of Minister for Natural Resources) (9.39 a.m.), by alumina to 150,000 tonnes by 1998 and to leave: I would like to inform the House of an 1.5 million tonnes early next century. I am important step taken by this Government to pleased to report that the Queensland bring peace to our forests. Cabinet has Government's Hong Kong office and its endorsed the undertaking of regional forest Brisbane-based China secretariat has been agreements in Queensland in cooperation with assisting the company to accomplish its the Commonwealth Government and all major targets. stakeholders. Queensland is a leader in alumina This is an important step forward for processing and manufacturing. Sky Trading's Queensland as the agreement process is expansion plans open up opportunities for designed to resolve the vexed questions Queensland companies. China has turned to related to the use and management of our Queensland for our expertise as well as our native forests. The key outcomes from the bauxite. My department is now locating RFA exercise will be a sustainable, secure and Queensland companies to assist with this internationally competitive native forest development. The likely outcome will be industry and a world-class forest reserve increased bauxite exports and more system. Queensland jobs. The RFA will be the basis to deliver the In a development that is comparable with Government's commitment to the sustainable selling coal to Newcastle, I am pleased to use of forest resources, providing resource report a breakthrough that will see that famous security to the timber industry and protecting Chinese fruit, the lychee, exported from forest biodiversity for present and future Queensland to China. The Chinese authorities generations. The RFA process will assemble have agreed to negotiations aimed at sharing the full range of forest, economic, social, tree stocks and technological and agricultural environmental and heritage values and, based expertise and the import into China of on these assessments, the Government will Queensland lychees. This will be to the mutual decide on the most appropriate allocations. benefit of Queensland and China. The This is good news for the timber industry and company, Pomona Orchards Pty Ltd, plans to for the conservation movement which have for grow and export the fruit during the Chinese so long found themselves on opposite sides of off-season, and thereby take advantage of the forest debate. heightened consumer demand at the time of The RFA will bring all parties to the table the Chinese New Year. Chinese growers will and decisions will be based on scientific, also benefit by exporting their agricultural and economic and social facts and realities. They technical expertise to Queensland to help us will not necessarily be based on the arbitrary grow a better lychee. This is another example application of benchmarks. While the process of how Queensland's food producers can take will be applied to all defined forests, it will be advantage of the State's proximity to Asia and focusing implementation on State forests and its ability to produce quality foods during the other reserves and will not be overriding the 30 Oct 1996 Ministerial Statement 3631 tree-clearing guidelines for leasehold land The member for South Brisbane made which are almost complete. There is still much some quite outrageous allegations in relation hard assessment and planning work ahead to Sid Marr of Yeppoon, who was a committee before we can sign off on the regional forest member of the Scurr inquiry. I do not intend to agreements, but with the goodwill of go further into that issue. I will leave it to the stakeholders I am confident that we are on the member for Gladstone to enlighten the right track. member for South Brisbane in regard to Mr Marr's credibility. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT On the basis that Mr Allan Risk, a nominee of BISCOA, an umbrella group Allegations by Opposition Members representing as many as 14 separate Hon. R. T. CONNOR (Nerang— subcontractor groups, had signed off on the Minister for Public Works and Housing) report into security of payments, I stated so (9.41 a.m.), by leave: Yesterday, a number of accordingly in the House. Since that time, members opposite made quite scurrilous and BISCOA has denied its total concurrence with often false statements in this House. I intend the report. Today I contacted the president of to deal with these issues one at a time. BISCOA, Mr Frank Huysing. I have been Yesterday, the member for Chatsworth, informed that there has been a Mr Mackenroth, made comments about a communication problem between Mr Risk, public servant who works within the their nominee and their committee, which I will Department of Public Works and Housing. The be dealing with at a meeting with them member launched into a tirade of attack upon tomorrow. the public servant, defaming this individual Finally, I refer to a matter raised by the under the protection of parliamentary privilege. member for Kurwongbah, who made The member used this House as a cowards' allegations in relation to an unnamed woman castle to attack a public servant who is widely who had allegedly been poorly treated and not respected by his peers and who cannot replied to by my office. Interestingly, I am defend himself. This would have to be one of informed that my department has nothing on the lowest moments for the member opposite record of any representation made on behalf in his many years in this place. I call on the of any woman by the member for honourable member to make an immediate Kurwongbah. So much for the warm and apology. I table a statement by the public caring member for Kurwongbah! However, I servant involved. table a letter in reply to the woman spoken of The member for Chatsworth also made by the honourable member. She wrote to my some unfounded allegations in relation to department and my department replied on 16 telecommunications. The umbrella group September. representing the industry was highly offended Mr MACKENROTH: I rise to a point of by the actions of the honourable member. It order. Could the Minister explain to the House has released a letter that has been made why everyone else in the world is wrong and available to me to table, and I do so he is right? accordingly. Mr SPEAKER: There is no point of The letter from ATUG, the Australian order. The member is wrong and I am right. Telecommunications Users Group, states— "Dear Minister, MINISTERIAL STATEMENT On behalf of the Queensland ATUG Quality Assurance committee I would like to apologise Hon. R. T. CONNOR (Nerang— unreservedly for any embarrassment that Minister for Public Works and Housing) may have been caused by Mr Terry (9.47 a.m.), by leave: It gives me great Mackenroth's outburst in Parliament pleasure to inform the House that the earlier today. Queensland Cabinet had put its stamp of . . . approval on a new quality assurance policy for The committee have been this State. A review of Government policy on canvassing industry views and operating quality assurance was a coalition election in confidentiality and we are most commitment. concerned that this agreement has been Quality assurance has been one of the breached. Accordingly, we are currently most vexed issues for Queensland small trying to trace the source of Mr businesses in recent years. The coalition went Mackenroth's inaccurate information." to the polls with a commitment that we would 3632 Ministerial Statement 30 Oct 1996 review QA, because small businesses automatically from a QA standpoint. Also, the maintained that QA was too onerous and three-star Motor Trades Association program expensive, that it was keeping them out of will comply with the new policy. Most Government work and that QA policy was professional accreditations would be accepted. inconsistent in its administration. However, there will be exceptions that will have In June of this year, we commenced an to be worked through. internal departmental review, at no direct cost There are two systems of accreditation to taxpayers. The review involved no outside with a $10,000 threshold, and the big winners consultants and lasted four months. A public are small business. Most small businesses will consultation period attracted 64 submissions not have to come to terms with QA unless and culminated in a Brisbane summit on 26 they want to. In summing up, approximately September. Industry anger over the QA 300 companies are currently in the high-risk system had grown through the 1990s and category of QA, and they will still continue to came to a head last year. Under Labor there be QA audited. Most of the larger was confusion about the policy, as well as a organisations, who are providing high-risk lack of proper consultation, especially with services, already have third-party audits. small to medium-sized businesses. It was not until our September summit that some form of compromise emerged. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT We did not go into the summit with any Mr M. Howden particular outcome in mind. What led to this Hon. D. E. BEANLAND (Indooroopilly— new policy was really industry's own solution to Attorney-General and Minister for Justice) the problem. The original three-part, risk-based (9.51 a.m.), by leave: As the Minister QA system still remains, but with a $10,000 responsible for consumer affairs, it is my threshold. Transactions below $10,000 do not unhappy duty to inform the House about the require QA, except in extraordinary activities of several Gold Coast tourist circumstances at the discretion of the relevant businesses that have closed their doors and Minister. The potential impact on around left a number of interstate visitors stranded. 20,000 suppliers to the Government is more The Office of Consumer Affairs is currently evident when it is realised that an estimated conducting an investigation into the activities 97 per cent of Government transactions are of Matthew Howden and the companies in below the $10,000 threshold. which he has been involved—Queensland We have over 14,000 State purchasing Resort Marketing, the Tourist Development officers in the Queensland Government. As Centre of Surfers Paradise and Gold Coast soon as we move to this new QA model, only Baywatch Direct. Both the Office of Consumer 400 to 500 purchasing officers will be involved Affairs and the Australian Competition and in purchasing goods and services above Consumer Commission have been interested $10,000. Almost 14,000 purchasing officers in in the affairs of Matthew Howden for several Queensland will no longer need to be trained weeks. A full investigation into Howden's in QA. This will substantially reduce costs in activities has been established, search our training, but will greatly improve the warrants have been issued and certain Gold consistency of QA determinations among the Coast premises have been raided in an 400 to 500 purchasing officers making those attempt to recover paperwork, computers and decisions. records. In addition, $60,000 in bond monies The three-tier, risk-based QA system will has been frozen by the Residential Tenancies run parallel with industry accreditation. The Authority pending the outcome of any Government will recognise approved investigations. The Office of Consumer Affairs accreditation from industry organisations as and the ACCC are investigating possible equal to a QA accreditation. It will mean that breaches of the Fair Trading Act for misleading industry bodies, where they are recognised by and deceptive conduct, the Travel Agents Act the Government, will be able to issue and relevant Federal legislation. These are certificates—a low-cost alternative to QA. very serious matters that will be investigated These industry bodies' accreditations will have under the full extent of the law. to be evaluated by the Government to our The Office of Consumer Affairs has taken standards. In most circumstances, they will be a number of steps to aid stranded tourists. A recognised automatically from a QA point of hotline has been established for affected view. Take the Law Society as an example. holiday makers, and I would urge any anyone For someone who is a member of the Bar, in with information to call (07) 5581 3303. The most cases that person would be recognised Office of Consumer Affairs is continuing to 30 Oct 1996 Ministerial Statement 3633 work closely with local hotels, motels and "1. To examine and make apartments to find appropriate recommendations in relation to the accommodation for those interstate tourists future role, structure, powers and who have been stranded. It is a credit to the operations of the Criminal Justice goodwill of the Gold Coast accommodation Commission established under the industry that it has offered assistance and Criminal Justice Act 1989; accommodation to interstate tourists who have 2. Without limiting in any manner the been left stranded. I offer my sympathy to generality of paragraph 1:— those people who have been inconvenienced by Matthew Howden's activities. (a) To examine and review whether the functions and responsibilities of the Criminal Justice MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Commission set out in the Criminal Justice Act 1989 remain Criminal Justice Commission appropriate and provide a Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers proper legislative framework for Paradise—Premier) (9.53 a.m.), by leave: the future operations of the Since 1991, the people of Queensland have Criminal Justice Commission invested more than $140m in the Criminal having regard to:— Justice Commission. The commission is an (i) the original purpose for unelected body with vast, sweeping powers to which the Criminal Justice intrude into many areas of human conduct. It Commission was can be a force for both good and bad. Much established; of what it does is done in secret. The only (ii) the extent to which such body to which it is to report is the original purpose has been Parliamentary Criminal Justice Committee. fulfilled; That body itself is compelled by statute to keep much of what is reported to it secret. The (iii) whether there are any whole apparatus of the commission was novel functions currently vested in and untried. Any Government that failed to the Criminal Justice take measures to scrutinise the activities of a Commission which should commission with such awesome powers and now be performed by with the right to expend such large sums of another agency or entity; public money would be failing in its public duty. and Let me make it clear at the outset that, (iv) the appropriateness of the contrary to what has been stated in the media operational priorities and elsewhere, the Criminal Justice previously determined by Commission is not a judicial organ and is not the Criminal Justice part of the judicial process. It cannot imprison Commission and the people, it cannot empanel juries, and its relevance of these priorities officers do not take the judicial oath. It is to the proper objectives of essentially an inquisitorial investigative body the Criminal Justice with quasi-judicial administrative powers. It is Commission; not, and should never be equated with, a (b) To examine and review Divisions court of law. To suggest that either it or its 4, 5, 6 and 7 of Part 2 of the appointees should be treated as if they were Criminal Justice Act 1989; judges is an insult to the duly appointed (c) To examine and review the judges of this State. confidentiality provisions of the Bearing in mind the public ground swell of Criminal Justice Act 1989; support for an investigation into the cost- (d) To examine and review whether effectiveness and accountability of the the Parliamentary Criminal commission, the Government announced the Justice Committee established appointment of a commission of inquiry to look under Part 4 of the Criminal into these matters in accordance with the Justice Act 1989, is the most policy that we took to the people of appropriate model for monitoring Queensland prior to the last election. The and reviewing the operations of letters of reference were uncontroversial to any the Criminal Justice fair-minded person. For the benefit of the Commission, or whether there House, I will refer to them. They stated— are other or additional 3634 Ministerial Statement 30 Oct 1996

accountability measures that Assembly of Queensland of 13 should be put in place; September 1996 at pages (e) To examine and review when a 2915-2918. periodic review or audit of the AND to make full and faithful operations of the Criminal report and recommendations Justice Commission should be touching the aforesaid subject matter undertaken; of inquiry and to transmit the same to (f) To identify what legislative or the Honourable the Attorney- other action should be taken by General." the Government of the State of An Opposition member interjected. Queensland in relation to the Mr BORBIDGE: It was printed in the future role, structure, powers Queensland Government Gazette. Members and operations of the Criminal knew all about it. Justice Commission; An Opposition member interjected. (g) To examine and review the past operations of the Criminal Mr BORBIDGE: It might help the poor, Justice Commission with a view shallow honourable member. to making recommendations The Government appointed to head that concerning the performance, inquiry two of Queensland's most efficiency, effectiveness and distinguished retired judges. The people of accountability of the Criminal Queensland need only glance at their record Justice Commission and its of achievements, experience, public service, various organisational elements; impartiality and qualifications to appreciate (h) To examine and review the that in all respects they are of more than equal policies that have been adopted experience with any other retired judges, by the Criminal Justice including—and I make no apology for saying Commission in relation to:- it—Mr Carruthers, QC. Once appointed, those (i) the manner and form of any commissioners stood at arm's length from the proceedings which have Government. Neither my Ministers nor any of been instituted on behalf of their officers have had any communication the Criminal Justice with those distinguished gentlemen since their Commission under the appointment, except for Attorney-General and Criminal Justice Act 1989; Justice officials with respect to staffing, accommodation, financing and other facilities. (ii) the criteria for the selection Such inquiries and approaches as may have and engagement of been made by them or on their behalf in persons to undertake duties pursuance of their inquiries have been entirely for and on behalf of the at their own behest and at arm's length from Criminal Justice the Government. I therefore unequivocally Commission, being persons reject any implication or accusation that the who are not staff of the Government has interfered in the Carruthers Criminal Justice inquiry. Any notion, any suggestion or any Commission in terms of smear that either Mr Connolly, QC, or Mr Section 64 of the Criminal Ryan, QC, could be in any way susceptible to Justice Act 1989; and Government pressure or influence is utterly (iii) the allocation of resources offensive to these high-minded gentlemen, and funds between the and I refute any such suggestion. various Divisions of the The self-aborted inquiry by Mr Carruthers Criminal Justice has cost the Queensland taxpayers, on a Commission in the conservative estimate, $3.5m. Mr Carruthers discharge of the statutory himself has been paid a minimum of functions of the Criminal $400,000 in fees. In addition, there were paid Justice Commission; on his behalf a considerable amount of (i) To examine all the events, facts expenses. "What value has Queensland got and circumstances involved and for this?" the people may well ask. The surrounding, or relevant to, the Government did not set these fees and allegations which are contained expenses; the Criminal Justice Commission in the Hansard Reports of did. The extraordinary, unprecedented, Proceedings for the Legislative sudden resignation of Mr Carruthers, the 30 Oct 1996 Ministerial Statement 3635 appointee of the Criminal Justice Commission, opinion being then appointed to inquire into the wasted millions and the trauma of cross- him—an entirely different point. examination, accusation and delay to which Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point those who gave evidence before Mr of order. Carruthers were subjected are sufficient reason for the Government's unapologetic Mr BORBIDGE: I acknowledge the fact determination to try to find out what value the that Mr Carruthers was quite happy to get a people of this State are getting from the legal opinion from a QC who acted on behalf Criminal Justice Commission. of the Labor Party during the last State election. That is okay—one rule for members The Government is sick and tired of the opposite, one rule for us. What a pack of misrepresentation of and the lies about its sleazy hypocrites! position in this matter. We have an absolute The second point, conveniently commitment to an honest police force and overlooked by the Opposition, is that Mr honesty in public life. We do not intend to Carruthers' inquiry was also into allegations of dismantle the CJC. We will carefully consider grave misconduct by the Labor Party's most the recommendations of the commission of senior non-parliamentary official, Mr Kaiser, inquiry and give effect to such of its and, more importantly, the former Labor recommendations that, as a Government Premier of this State, the honourable member elected to govern, we consider appropriate. for Logan. He no more did his duty and was I come now to the extraordinary events of he paid for in respect of their conduct as he Mr Carruthers' resignation. In the short time did in respect of anyone else. available, I have spoken to many lawyers. The third point is that Mr Carruthers was They are all astounded by his precipitate not sitting as a judge. He was carrying out a actions. The word "irresponsible" has been very well remunerated inquisitorial task which used, and the word "irresponsible" has not he declined to finish. He cannot have it both been used lightly. Let us examine his ways: to accept an appointment not as a complaints. He objected, apparently, to an judge but as a commissioner, at great public opinion provided by Mr Connolly, QC, as to the expense and at a salary far in excess of a legal meaning of a section of the Electoral judge's, to inquire into matters with political Act—a pure legal question. Has Mr Carruthers implications and expect to be immune from never had a disagreement with another judge scrutiny and legitimate criticism on matters on a legal point? Any sitting judge in Australia, upon which conscientious and fair minds except the seven judges of the High Court, is differed. Mr Carruthers, on the one hand, has subject to the reversal of his or her decision by equated all of his conduct with judicial an appeal court. Mr Carruthers should have conduct. I am advised by my legal advisers been grateful for an opportunity to consider that in all of their collective legal experience other informed legal opinion. It was in fact his they have never witnessed such a prolonged duty and obligation to the taxpayers of this accusatory cross-examination of the kind that State to so do. This House should be made Mr Carruthers conducted of my colleague the aware that he himself, Mr Carruthers, obtained Minister for Police and Corrective Services and legal opinions from barristers—not retired me. judges—on the meaning of the difficult and The fourth matter is, I understand from obscure legislation introduced by the what I have read—I have spoken to no Opposition when it was the Government. Only members of the commission—that Mr the most sensitive and uncertain could be Carruthers claims that he has been politically upset by a reasoned, careful opinion by a compromised by a request that his documents distinguished former jurist. be preserved. If he made that claim, it is The second point, conveniently absolutely absurd. How on earth could the overlooked by the Opposition, is that—— preservation of relevant documents possibly compromise his decision? Would the Mr BRADDY: I rise to a point of order. Opposition prefer them to be shredded, as it The Premier is deliberately misleading the illegally shredded the Heiner documents? House. The records of the Carruthers inquiry "Shredder Beattie" over there—we know his will show that at no time did Mr Carruthers inclination to shred documents! I again ask the object to the legal opinion being submitted by question: would the Opposition prefer them to Mr Connolly. The Premier has misled the be shredded, as it illegally shredded the House in saying so. Mr Carruthers has Heiner documents when it was in objected only to the person who gave that Government? 3636 Members' Ethics and Parliamentary Privileges Committee 30 Oct 1996

Neither Mr Cooper nor I have behaved in MEMBERS' ETHICS AND any culpable way. The unseemly, expensive, PARLIAMENTARY PRIVILEGES unprecedented and wholly unjustified abortion COMMITTEE of the CJC inquiry by Mr Carruthers has Report deprived all of us of the opportunity to clear our names. If ever the people of this State Ms WARWICK (Barron River) needed a justification for a careful assessment (10.10 a.m.): I lay upon the table of the House of the CJC, its appointees, its policies, its the report of the Members' Ethics and actions, its expenditure and its effectiveness, Parliamentary Privileges Committee's review of this travesty of public duty by Mr Carruthers is the Members' Register of Interests. I also lay it. upon the table of the House a copy of submissions received by the committee during Mr Bredhauer: Corrupt to the core. its review. Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of A Member's Register of Interests and a order. I take offence at that remark that was Related Person's Register of Interests was made by the honourable member for Cook. I established by a resolution of the Legislative ask that it be withdrawn. Assembly on 19 April 1989. The resolution was subsequently amended on 27 November Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Honourable 1990 and 2 March 1993. One of the the Premier has taken offence at a remark responsibilities given to the Members' Ethics made by the honourable member for Cook and Parliamentary Privileges Committee by and has asked for a withdrawal of that remark. the Parliamentary Committees Act 1995 Mr BREDHAUER: I did not mention Queensland is to examine the arrangements anyone personally, but if the Premier takes for compiling, keeping and allowing inspection offence at the remark, then I withdraw. of the registers. The committee has undertaken an extensive examination of the registers. During SCRUTINY OF LEGISLATION the committee's review, no evidence was COMMITTEE received that would warrant a major change to the operation of the registers. However, the Report committee has recommended a number of Mr ELLIOTT (Cunningham) changes which it believes will increase (10.09 a.m.): I lay on the table of the House transparency and enhance the workability of the Scrutiny of Legislation Committee's 1995- the register. The primary change proposed by 96 annual report, which outlines the the committee relates to greater transparency operations of the committee over its first nine in respect of family and business trusts and and a half months of existence and provides private companies. The committee was details of major issues considered by the concerned that such trusts and companies committee during that time. In addition, the could be used to hold assets or incur liabilities annual report contains reports on two areas of and effectively and legitimately circumvent concern identified by the committee's other disclosure requirements. Whilst there is predecessor, the Subordinate Legislation no evidence available to the committee to Committee, and continued by this committee. suggest this has happened, the committee believed that the possibility was sufficient to The work of this committee has not been add new disclosure requirements in respect of without challenge, and I would like to thank trusts and companies. Therefore, the both the current members of the committee committee has recommended that members and those members who served on the disclose the investments, beneficial interests committee during the first session of this and major liabilities of trusts in which they Parliament for their efforts in laying the themselves hold the beneficial interest. groundwork for the operations of the Similarly, the committee has recommended committee. I thank also the committee's legal that members be required to disclose the adviser, Professor Charles Sampford, for his investments, beneficial interests and major valuable contribution in providing legal advice liabilities of any private company in which the and the committee staff for their efforts in member is a shareholder. managing the workload of this busy committee. I move that the Scrutiny of To protect the privacy of third parties who Legislation Committee's annual report be may have an interest in those trusts and printed. companies, the value of investments and liabilities is not required. In this context, it must Ordered to be printed. be stressed that the registers are not 30 Oct 1996 Private Members' Statements 3637 established to measure wealth, although PRIVATE MEMBERS' STATEMENTS unfortunately there is a tendency for the Carruthers Inquiry media to use the publicly disclosed Member's Register of Interests in this manner. Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central—Leader of the Opposition) (10.15 a.m.): The events I would like to take this opportunity to which led to yesterday's resignation of Mr thank all members of the committee for their Carruthers were not an accident; they were attention to the preparation of this report. The deliberately engineered. The Premier and his recommendations of the committee have Police Minister have interfered with the course come about after much soul searching and of justice and perverted the course of justice to discussion. The decisions made in the report get themselves out of the dock. were not made lightly. It is a great tribute to Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of the members of the committee that they were order. I find those remarks totally offensive; able to undertake this matter in such a they are untrue. I ask that they be withdrawn. professional and bipartisan manner. I am particularly pleased to be able to present to Mr BEATTIE: I withdraw them. The the Legislative Assembly a unanimous report member is not fit to be the Premier of this on an issue which often generates very State and the Police Minister is not fit to be a diverse views. I am confident that the registers Minister of this State, either. Their actions as amended by the committee's have turned back the clock to the corrupt days recommendations will represent best practice of the 1980s. The Government has and Queensland parliamentarians will become demonstrated that it believes that it is above the most accountable in Australia. Members of the law. The Premier thinks he is above the this Parliament are leading the way in respect law and his mate, Peter Connolly, has set out of declaring interests. This is a challenge for with a specific agenda to destroy the other professions who influence the decision Carruthers inquiry. What did we hear today? making process to make similar disclosures. I This morning, on radio, we heard Mr Connolly commend the report to the House. advocating the Government's cause and defending the Government's position. He is not fit to head the inquiry and the Premier NOTICE OF MOTION knows that he is not. Pacific Highway; Canowindra Country Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of Estate order. My point of order is that right through the period of the Carruthers inquiry—— Hon. J. P. ELDER (Capalaba—Deputy Mr BEATTIE: I rise to a point of order. I Leader of the Opposition) (10.14 a.m.): I give have an opportunity to speak for two minutes notice that I will move— and the Premier wants to waste it. He wants to "That this Parliament calls on the run away and hide, that is what he wants to Minister for Transport and Main Roads to do. resolve the conflict over a route for his Mr BORBIDGE: Right through the Pacific Motorway through the Pimpama period of the Carruthers inquiry, no-one from area. this side of the House criticised Mr Carruthers In particular, the Parliament calls on and I would suggest to the Leader of the the Minister to direct the Department of Opposition that he is very close to being in Main Roads to follow the route described contempt of another commission of inquiry by as Option A, through the Pacific Springs attacking Mr Connolly in this way. Golf Course. Mr BEATTIE: What we have just heard Further, it calls on the Minister to rule is an attempt by the Premier to muzzle debate out Options B and C because of the in this House on a matter of significance to all damage they would do to the lives and people in this State. If he thinks that we are lifestyle of the more than 500 residents of going to be silenced in our opposition and the Canowindra Country Estate. concern about the way he is running a corrupt State, where he is seeking to corruptly Finally, the Parliament calls on the interfere—— Minister to resolve this issue as a matter Time expired. of urgency to relieve the concern and uncertainty that hangs over all the residents of Canowindra Country Estate Roller-skater, Ms M. Royes as a result of the bungled attempts at Mr TANTI (Mundingburra) (10.17 a.m.): community consultation over this issue." A Townsville roller-skater, Michelle Royes, is 3638 Private Members' Statements 30 Oct 1996 aiming to be part of her sport's introduction to The Premier talks about the cost of the the Olympic Games when it starts Carruthers inquiry, but one has to ask: who are demonstration sports in 2004. Royes is back the beneficiaries of this decision? The from a successful stint at the national titles in beneficiaries are Russell Cooper and the Adelaide. She has hit the end of the road at Premier. Who is the other beneficiary? the intermediate level and must aim for higher Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will honours. Jumping up to the seniors refer to members not by name but by their international division is her next aim, which electorates. may take two years, and then she aims for the 2004 Olympics, if she continues to improve. Mr ELDER: The member for Crows Nest This year's nationals was the third she has and the Premier are the beneficiaries here. attended and this year she won gold in the The only other beneficiary is the Connolly international artistic division. inquiry. This morning, on radio, Mr Connolly let the cat out of the bag. He showed just how The first-year James Cook University implicated the Premier and the member for student found success despite the fact that Crows Nest are. This morning, he said that he she can only train with her Mackay coach, would be considering complaints coming from Steve Bowman, every six weeks. I will detail the Carruthers inquiry that were in the pipeline. some facts that show what Michelle has What I want to know is whether the complaints achieved and what she has to do to achieve are from the Premier. Are the complaints that even more. Michelle started skating in 1983 at are in the pipeline that Mr Connolly has the age of five. She started freestyle skating in received about the Carruthers inquiry the 1989 and entered her first freestyle skating Premier's complaints, because this morning he competition in 1990. She first entered the clearly—— Queensland Roller Sports Championships in 1992. Michelle has competed in five Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of Queensland championships from 1992 order. In reply to the honourable member: no. through to 1996. Her coach, Steve Bowman, Mr SPEAKER: Order! has lived in Mackay since the end of 1994. Mr ELDER: Then it is up to Mr Connolly Michelle trains alone under the covered to come out and be forthright and to say that area of a school as there is no suitable roller- publicly. He did not do that this morning. He skating venue in Townsville. The floor has to has a clear conflict of interest. be swept every time before her training Honourable members interjected. because it is too risky to take the chance of falling due to a stone or some other small Mr SPEAKER: Order! Order on both objects which may be on the floor. Because sides of the Chamber! the floor is not enclosed, she must also cope Mr ELDER: He has a clear bias. That with the weather, which is extremely hot in was evident this morning during that radio summer and very windy in winter. The floor interview with Patrick Condren. For the first often becomes wet, which makes it dangerous time, he let the cat out of the bag. We now to skate on. Michelle must always be know that the instructions and the riding orders accompanied by another adult. that the Premier gave him were clear, and that Time expired. was to undermine the Carruthers inquiry. Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. Those remarks are blatantly untrue. Carruthers Inquiry They are offensive. Hon. J. P. ELDER (Capalaba—Deputy Mr ELDER: The Premier has the chance Leader of the Opposition) (10.19 a.m.): By to amend the legislation. taking a point of order on the Leader of the Opposition, the Premier was attempting to Mr BORBIDGE: I ask that those muzzle debate. He will not muzzle the debate remarks be withdrawn. on this issue, he will be called to order on it Mr ELDER: The Premier has his chance and he will be brought to account for it. Either to amend it. his actions are corrupt or, through the Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for Attorney-General's legislation, he has actually Capalaba will resume his seat. inadvertently undermined the Carruthers inquiry. The Premier has 24 hours to resolve it Mr Borbidge: Don't threaten me, before we move a motion of no confidence. Is buster. there some other explanation for this, or is he Mr ELDER: I can threaten you any day corrupt? of the week. You are not big enough. 30 Oct 1996 Private Members' Statements 3639

Mr SPEAKER: Order! Those remarks months, the number of flies trapped was low, are unparliamentary. The Premier has found but that number is expected to increase during the remarks that the member made offensive spring and summer. and has asked for them to be withdrawn. The impact on growers in the quarantine Mr ELDER: With due deference to you, area has been greatly reduced now that Mr Speaker, I withdraw. certification assurance has been introduced. Mr BEANLAND: I rise to a point of There is an indication that the mango trade order. I also find those remarks most offensive with Japan will once again occur this season and ask that they be withdrawn. with the vapour heat treatment process that had been implemented. Tests have been Mr ELDER: What remarks did I make in carried out in Cairns with that particular relation to the Attorney-General? process. Mr BEANLAND: Quite clearly there is an imputation on my character. I ask that Time expired. those remarks be withdrawn now. Mr ELDER: I will let the evidence speak Carruthers Inquiry for itself. I withdraw whatever remark the Attorney-General found offensive. Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga) (10.23 a.m.): Legal history was made Mr BEANLAND: Did I get an yesterday by Premier Borbidge and Police unequivocal withdrawal? Minister Cooper in sabotaging a legally Mr SPEAKER: Order! I understood that constituted inquiry into their conduct. I refer to the honourable member, in deference to me, the legal opinion of the former president of the withdrew the remarks that the Attorney- Bar Association, Walter Sofronoff, QC, who General found offensive. said in his independent advice to Mr Mr Fouras interjected. Carruthers— Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for "We have been unable to turn up a Ashgrove! He is down at the bottom of the single case in which an on-going House now. independent inquiry authorised by statute has itself been made answerable to another inquiry set up by persons whose Papaya Fruit Fly own conduct is the very subject of the Mr ROWELL (Hinchinbrook) original inquiry." (10.22 a.m.): Around the world, fruit fly To use a metaphor, this is the first time in legal infestation of crops is a major problem. Now, history when the prisoners in the dock have with the ability of large numbers of people to been able to get rid of the judge trying their travel from one continent to another in a short case. period, the spread of pests and diseases is becoming prevalent. ACIAR and AUS-aid are Let us look at the Police Minister's considering funding a fruit fly program in conduct. He brokered the sleazy deal with the Papua New Guinea for species endemic to Police Union. He got the Premier to sign it. He that country. If the program can be referred the deal to the CJC—— implemented, it will assist in the understanding Mr COOPER: I rise to a point of order. I of the pest. In the future, such initiative would find the remarks false and offensive and ask be greatly assisted if the outbreak occurred that they be withdrawn. here in Australia. With the level of travel taking Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Honourable place, it is only a matter of time before Minister has found the remarks offensive and Queensland will see a similar occurrence to asks that they be withdrawn. the papaya fruit fly outbreak of last year. Surveillance must be upgraded to a level Mr FOLEY: Mr Speaker, I regard the which enables a rapid response should a remarks as true, but in deference to your positive sighting be registered. ruling, I withdraw. Flies that are not endemic to Queensland The Police Minister then appeared before and other States of Australia are a major trade the Carruthers inquiry. He retained Peter barrier to our billion dollar a year horticultural Connolly, QC, to give advice favourable to his industry. The papaya fruit fly program has case. Then, in Cabinet, he set up an inquiry been a heavy cost burden to Government and designed to torpedo the Carruthers inquiry growers. Good progress is being made with and, in Cabinet, appointed his own legal the eradication program. During the winter counsel to head that inquiry. 3640 Private Members' Statements 30 Oct 1996

Mr COOPER: I rise to a point of order. can be designated as a noxious weed, I begin Once again, I find those remarks false and to wonder where we are going as far as offensive and ask that they be withdrawn. opportunity is concerned. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Honourable Time expired. Minister has found the remarks offensive. Mr FOLEY: The requirement for Carruthers Inquiry withdrawal of a remark is that it is untrue and Hon. P. J. BRADDY (Kedron) offensive. Nothing that I have said is untrue. In (10.28 a.m.): In the political and legal crisis Cabinet, the Police Minister appointed Mr facing Queensland, this Government has an Connolly, QC, to head the inquiry. Unless he obligation to ensure that its judicial review into challenges that fact—— the CJC does not conflict with the Carruthers Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Honourable inquiry. It is not good enough for Government Minister for Police has found offensive some members to come in here today and wash remarks that the member has made. He their hands of it by saying, "What we have claims that they are untrue. The member will done has no impact on the Carruthers inquiry." withdraw them. That is clearly not true. The terms of reference Mr FOLEY: Mr Speaker, in deference to of the judicial review have been used by Mr your ruling, I withdraw. However, I point out Connolly and Mr Hanger to move into the that, in his statement this morning, Mr Carruthers inquiry. We now see Mr Connolly Connolly foreshadowed the very matter which and Mr Hanger standing over and intimidating he had addressed—— Mr Carruthers, QC, as he carries out his duties in this State. Time expired. I refer to correspondence of 24 and 25 October from Mr Hanger, QC, to Mr Land Use Carruthers. On 24 October, when writing to Mr Mr STEPHAN (Gympie) (10.26 a.m.): Mr Carruthers, Mr Hanger said— Speaker—— "Please advise whether you are Mr Bredhauer interjected. prepared to give an undertaking that neither you nor any person engaged in Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the assisting you in the preparation of your member for Cook under Standing Order 123A. reports will destroy any document which Mr STEPHAN: Recently, comments comes into . . . your . . . possession." have been made about land use and the He goes on to say—— various areas that come under the control of some local authorities. Some of the decisions Honourable members interjected. that those councils have made cause me a Mr SPEAKER: Order! Order on both great deal of concern. sides of the House! Mr Gibbs interjected. Mr BRADDY: Mr Hanger stated— Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the "I include drafts of your reports in the member for Bundamba under Standing Order category of documents which should not 123A. be destroyed." Mr STEPHAN: I have no quarrel This Premier talks about thought police. regarding the protection of land to ensure that, To say to a person carrying out an inquiry that where possible, that land is left in as good a he must preserve the drafts is an intimidation. position or even a better position than it was in On 25 October, Mr Hanger said the following— when we first took hold of it. I refer to grasses "It would be regrettable if this such as Green Panic and decisions by local Commission of Inquiry was compelled to authorities as to whether or not such grasses exercise its coercive powers to achieve an should be eradicated or certified as a noxious object which could readily be achieved by weed. In fact, that determination has been cooperation." made about land in local authorities that are They have threatened to coerce Mr Carruthers very close to my electorate. Green Panic is not and they say that they have no impact at all the only fodder that cattle can use. It has on the inquiry. been a tremendous asset to many dairy farmers and beef producers over a long Time expired. period. When a local authority can determine Mr SPEAKER: Order! Time has expired. that such a grass, which has been important It is time for question time. I call the Leader of to producers and is helping the cattle industry, the Opposition. 30 Oct 1996 Questions Without Notice 3641

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE fit to pack up his bat and ball and go home. Carruthers Inquiry The least that he can do now is return the taxpayers' money he has resolutely been Mr BEATTIE (10.31 a.m.): In directing a soaking up and stringing out to no end since question to the Premier, I refer to his March at the rate of approximately $2,500 a Government's attempts to corruptly pervert the day plus expenses. I submit that that is a very course of justice by sabotaging the Carruthers expensive job to leave so irresponsibly inquiry. I ask: why should Queenslanders undone. regard his nobbling of Carruthers as any different from the desperate attempts by Over the past eight months, I, other Bjelke-Petersen to close down the Fitzgerald members of the Government and other inquiry? Queenslanders, including members of the Labor Party, have had their names dragged Mr BORBIDGE: There has been no through the mud. The actions of Mr Carruthers attempt by this Government to nobble the yesterday mean that we have been denied Carruthers inquiry. The Leader of the natural justice. The main reason that I wanted Opposition's allegations are offensive. They to address this matter today, apart from show increasingly that he is a leader of making those points, was to reject again any desperation, of malicious defamation, rather suggestion that Government interference was than sustainable and reasonable debate. The a catalyst or element in the farce that we saw question by the Leader of the Opposition does yesterday. allow me to offer some more remarks in respect of yesterday's actions by Mr Mr Foley: The bomb going off is Carruthers. I was both amazed and extremely someone else's fault. disappointed on behalf of the taxpayers of Mr BORBIDGE: The honourable Queensland by the extraordinary decision of member should just listen. Mr Carruthers, QC, to resign a very The plain, indisputable fact is that a handsomely paid, long strung out job before review of the Criminal Justice Commission was finishing it. I also advise the House that I find coalition policy at the 1995 State election. The his stated reasons for doing so offensive and views of the coalition in relation to the way in totally inadequate. which that body needs review are well known In suggesting emphatically that it is Mr and have been widely expressed for a very Carruthers and nobody else who is culpable, I long time. There was no secret, no surprise refer particularly to a line in the extraordinary and no relationship in respect of the statement that Mr Carruthers made as he Carruthers inquiry. It is a nonsense to suggest, walked away from his job— as Mr Carruthers now so offensively does, that "Mr Sofronoff and Mr Newton also the commission of inquiry established by the advised me that an interference by Mr Government was established to get him. It Hanger in the conduct of my inquiry would was not. I would ask anyone tempted to that be a contempt of my inquiry and view to examine fairly the terms of reference consequently, a contempt of the CJC and to consider the people whom we have contrary to the Criminal Justice Act." engaged to carry out that particular inquiry: the I would have thought—indeed, I would have honourable Justice Peter David Connolly, QC, expected based on that high-powered legal and the honourable—— advice alone, let alone via the application of Mr LIVINGSTONE: I rise to a point of any reasonable, responsible regard for the order. The Mr Connolly to whom the Premier expenses imposed upon the taxpayer by the refers—is that the same Peter Connolly who extraordinary length of his inquiry—that Mr represented the Liberal Party in this Carruthers, instead of spitting the dummy, Parliament from 1957 to 1960? might have gone forward instead of out the Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point door heading for a plane back to Sydney. I of order. The honourable member will resume would have thought that in those his seat. circumstances—— Mr BORBIDGE: To suggest that Mr Mr Beattie: He was intimidated. Connolly or Mr Ryan would be party to some Mr BORBIDGE: No, in those bid to stitch up the Carruthers inquiry is simply circumstances, I would have thought the outrageous and does the honourable member responsible thing to do—the only thing to no credit. The clear fact is that Mr Carruthers do—both in relation to the law and in relation had two distinct courses open to him in the to public duty was to stand, to fight and to face of his own views and those of his legal finish the job. Instead, Mr Carruthers has seen advisers on the import of the commission of 3642 Questions Without Notice 30 Oct 1996 inquiry into the CJC on his own proceedings: ". . . arguably, the establishment of the one was to cut and run; the other was to stand Connolly-Ryan Commission created a and fight. He made the wrong choice in perception of an intention by the relation to defending the integrity of his own Executive to interfere with Mr Carruthers' inquiry, the wrong choice in relation to meeting inquiry." his responsibilities to the taxpayers of I ask: would the Premier now agree that it was Queensland. That is not the Government's completely inappropriate to create that inquiry doing; that is Mr Carruthers' doing. and to appoint Mr Connolly at $3,000 a day as In conclusion, I would make this one its head? observation based on another part of Mr Carruthers' extraordinary statement yesterday in which he expressed concern at being Mr BORBIDGE: In reply to the honourable member, I want to make a few subjected to coercive powers—the very observations about Mr Connolly and Mr Ryan. coercive powers that he has been applying to Up to this time, never have two distinguished people from one end of Queensland to the former members of the Supreme Court of other for the past eight months. He said— Queensland been subjected to such massive "The coercive powers . . . are those and disgraceful political vilification as the under the Commission of Inquiries Act Opposition has engaged in today. 1950 and they include the issue of a Mr BEATTIE: I rise to a point of order. I summons upon a person which, if not find those remarks by the Premier offensive. I complied with, renders the person guilty of have made no disparaging remarks either an offence, and, then, upon the inside or outside this House in relation to Kevin presentation of the certificate of the Ryan. I seek those matters to be withdrawn. chairman of the Commission to that effect to a Magistrate, liable to arrest. In this Mr BORBIDGE: I accept the remark case the person is me." made by the Leader of the Opposition that his campaign of vilification is directed at Mr There seems to be this view that coercive Connolly, not at Mr Ryan. I am happy to powers, by Mr Carruthers' definition, are fine withdraw my comment in respect of Mr Ryan. when they are applied to anyone else. However, I remind the Leader of the Perhaps it is well that Mr Carruthers has been Opposition that this is a joint commission—two reminded that he is a person subject to that judges working together—so when he criticises law just as those who have been subjected to one, he criticises the other. The other irony in his exercise of coercive powers in recent all of this is that—— months. Mr Foley: So, if the Police Minister signed it, the Premier signed it. Inquiry into Criminal Justice Mr BORBIDGE: Look who has burst on Commission to the scene. Mr BEATTIE: Don't anyone give him an Mr HAMILL: I rise to a point of order. IQ test. For the purposes of clarification for the House, earlier today the Premier was at great pains to In directing a question to the Premier, I point out that Mr Carruthers was no longer a refer to the fact that the Opposition warned judge. Is the Premier suggesting that Mr Ryan that the appointment of Peter Connolly, who and Mr Connolly are judges, or are they former had given favourable advice on behalf of the judges and, as in the case of one of those Police Minister to the Carruthers inquiry, to former judges, counsel for Mr Cooper at the head the politically motivated inquiry into the Carruthers inquiry? CJC would be inappropriate. I also quote Mr SPEAKER: Order! They are former independent legal advice from Mr Walter judges and there is no point of order. Sofronoff, QC, the former president of the Bar Association, to Mr Carruthers— Mr BORBIDGE: To correct the honourable member, one of those judges was "Some observers might think that this not counsel for Mr Cooper at the Carruthers conduct of the Queensland Government inquiry. I suggest that he get the facts right. constitutes a use of raw political power, calculated to influence or frustrate the Mr HAMILL: I rise to a point of order. Is outcome of Mr Carruthers' uncompleted the Premier seeking to suggest that Mr inquiry . . ." Connolly did not supply an opinion which was tendered as evidence on behalf of Mr Cooper It further states— at the Carruthers inquiry? 30 Oct 1996 Questions Without Notice 3643

Mr SPEAKER: There is no point of the letter. I have been in my office since 7.15 order on this issue. this morning and the letter that the Leader of Mr BORBIDGE: If we apply the logic of the Opposition said was delivered—— the mixed-up member who interjects, Mr Beattie: It was handed to your staff. presumably someone who operates on my big Mr BORBIDGE: No, I have been with toe cannot operate on his big toe. The simple them all morning. It is a bit like—— fact is that from time to time Mr Connolly, like other barristers—like Mr Sofronoff and An Opposition member interjected. others—provide legal opinions. That does not Mr BORBIDGE: It was by fax, was it? I preclude them from subsequent public office. see. It was interesting to note that last night If Opposition members want to denigrate we had the Leader of the Opposition trying Mr Connolly, let me remind them that during very hard to create a political crisis in the 1980s Justice Tony Fitzgerald worked on Queensland. The Government in exile—— the Labor Party's submission on one vote, one An Opposition member interjected. value. Did the coalition say that that should Mr BORBIDGE: They were all a bit prevent him from some future appointment grumbly. They had to leave the dinner table under the Government? He provided advice to early. They had to leave a couple of bottles of the Labor Party. red down there. Last night, they were all called The Leader of the Opposition quotes the into a special caucus meeting where the words of Mr Sofronoff. Mr Sofronoff is entitled accumulated brains trust of the Opposition to his point of view. During the 1995 State was gathered—the prominent legal adviser, election campaign, he provided legal counsel the member for Yeronga; the former Police to the Labor Party. So I think that the morality Minister; the member for Ipswich; all of those that we are seeing from honourable members former Ministers who set Queensland into opposite is extremely selective indeed. such a shambles in terms of public One of the great ironies of this place is administration—to work out how they would that from time to time the Leader of the generate this crisis and bring the Government Opposition and shadow Ministers get up and to its knees. So they decided that they would ask, "Why have you not implemented your issue an ultimatum. I guess an ultimatum is as election commitments? Why have you not good as anything else. The basis of that done this? Why have you not done that?" I ultimatum, or piece of blackmail, is that unless know that it is an embarrassment to the I and unless the Government take action to Leader of the Opposition that, after about intervene in the activities of a properly eight months in office, the coalition has constituted commission of inquiry—— implemented close to 70 per cent of its pre- Mr BEATTIE: I rise to a point of order. I election commitments. I also remind the find the remarks of the Premier offensive. We Leader of the Opposition that, prior to the last are simply seeking to restore integrity and election, I made a commitment that a coalition honesty to Government. I find the untrue, Government would have an independent dishonest remarks by the Premier to be judicial review of the Criminal Justice offensive and I seek for them to be withdrawn. Commission by a retired judge or by a panel of Mr BORBIDGE: He would not know judges. The Opposition can try all the slurs, all how to spell "integrity", but if he is upset, I will the smears, all the allegations that it likes: the withdraw it. dye is cast. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I heard the Honourable Premier say that he has Inquiry into Criminal Justice withdrawn. Commission Mr BEATTIE: I have not. Mr Speaker, if Mr SPRINGBORG: I refer the you have, I accept that. Honourable the Premier to a threat by the Mr BORBIDGE: If the Leader of the Leader of the Opposition to move a motion of Opposition rested his mouth a bit and no confidence in the Government unless the exercised his ears, we would save a lot of time Government intervenes in the activities of the in this place. We do not have blackmail—I Connolly/Ryan commission, and I ask: could accept that it is not blackmail from the Leader the Premier advise the House as to how this of the Opposition; it is an ultimatum that contrasts with previous comments by the unless we take action to intervene in the Leader of the Opposition? activities of a properly constituted commission Mr BORBIDGE: I thank the honourable of inquiry by nobbling it, by saying what it member for his question. I am still waiting for cannot investigate, then we face a no 3644 Questions Without Notice 30 Oct 1996 confidence motion. That is what the Kaiser was corrupt, yet they face exactly the Opposition is saying. The Opposition is saying same situation as members on the that the commission of inquiry, headed by two Government side. I suggest that the narrow- former judges of the Supreme Court of minded, short-sighted political expediency of Queensland, should be restricted by way of the Leader of the Opposition does him no legislation in regard to what it can investigate. good. It is very easy to cry "corrupt". However, So if a teacher, or a policeman, or someone I say to the Leader of the Opposition: "Prove else happens to go to this commission of it. Put your money where your mouth is and, if inquiry and raise certain matters that the you can't, have the decency to apologise—if Opposition does not think should be you have a shred of public decency left in investigated because it might relate to Mr you." Carruthers, the inquiry is to be restricted or Today, the tactics of the Opposition are stopped. clear. The Opposition is not interested in Mr BEATTIE: I rise to a point of order. political stability; it wants to force the people of The Premier is grossly misrepresenting what Queensland back to the polls. Let its actions the Opposition has said and done. The be clear; that is what it wants. This is just Opposition is simply wanting the Carruthers another part of the strategy and the inquiry to have its independence and its ability dishonesty that we have seen employed by to continue. The Premier is misleading and the Leader of the Opposition and the Labor lying to the House, and he knows it. Party from the day that they were tossed out Mr SPEAKER: There is no point of of action. They never came to grips with the order. fact that they have been rejected by the electorate. They could never understand how Mr BORBIDGE: Cop it. The Leader of so great a Government, in their own words, the Opposition accused me of lying. He might had been rejected. Ever since then, they have like to withdraw that. frustrated and sought to generate political Mr BEATTIE: I withdraw. instability in this State, whilst running around Mr SPEAKER: I call the Premier and I Queensland saying, "We're a responsible call order. Opposition." The Leader of the Opposition is the most irresponsible Opposition Leader in Mr BORBIDGE: The Leader of the any Parliament in Australia today. Opposition is saying that a commission of inquiry, which has been established in On issue after issue after issue, the Labor accordance with the policies of the duly Party and the Opposition have sought to elected Government of this State, placed destabilise this Government. The Labor Party before the people of Queensland prior to an and the Opposition set out to destroy the election, should be subject to this Parliament super bank merger. The Leader of the saying what it cannot look at. The Opposition Opposition and the shadow Treasurer—— talks about nobbling inquiries; it is out to Mr HAMILL: I rise to a point of order. nobble Mr Ryan and Mr Connolly because The Premier's remarks are deeply offensive to they might like to look at something that the me personally and to the Opposition. We have Opposition does not want them to look at. not been destabilising the Government, he The commission of inquiry should be has. allowed to continue its business unfettered, Mr SPEAKER: There is no point of free of political interference and free of political order. stunts such as we have seen from the Leader of the Opposition. All this comes from a Labor Mr BORBIDGE: Is it not amazing how Party and an Opposition Leader who have some Oxford scholars flunk out so badly? In said that they do not want an early election—a regard to the Metway merger, the Labor Labor Party and a Leader of the Opposition Opposition tried to talk down the shares and who actually passed an amendment to a take the merger off the rails, at a time when confidence motion passed in this Parliament in the Labor Party had shares in Metway and February which basically said that there should wanted that bank lost to St George in New not be an election before May 1998. South Wales. The Leader of the Opposition and honourable members opposite have Mr Beattie: Unless there's corruption. railed against the reforms to workers' Mr BORBIDGE: We hear this ballad compensation and the disgraceful $400m opposite about corruption. That is untrue, and black hole that they generated. The Leader of the Leader of the Opposition knows that it is the Opposition and honourable members untrue. I have not said that the member for opposite have sought to undermine this Logan was corrupt, I have not said that Mr Government's clear mandate to introduce 30 Oct 1996 Questions Without Notice 3645 industrial relations reform. Now, the Leader of Workers Compensation Fund, out of a total of the Opposition and the Labor Party are asking some $400m, for his question. I was rather this Government to intervene in the workings surprised by the political nature and content of of a properly constituted commission of the so-called legal opinion given to Mr inquiry, which was a clear election commitment Carruthers. Late yesterday and this morning, I of the coalition prior to the last election. browsed through that opinion. It contains a It is time for this Government to be given number of comments that cannot be a fair go. It was elected to get on with the job; construed in any shape or form as other than it was elected to govern; it was elected to political. They certainly do not relate to legal implement its program of change. Now the issues. If one goes through the opinion, one Leader of the Opposition says that he wants will see that, in a number of places, the an election. It is no surprise that his own comments in fact relate to political issues. people are rejecting him. It is no surprise that Of course, I totally refute the member for former Ministers of the Goss Government do Yeronga's allegation of an intrusion into the not want a bar of him. It is no surprise that current inquiry. In fact, it is quite clear from the Warren Pitt, a former Labor Minister, is not correspondence that what was requested was going to nominate for the seat of Mulgrave. the non-destruction of documents. Judges of Today's Cairns Post states— the Supreme Court are part and parcel of such "Opposition Leader Peter Beattie's a regime, because they do not destroy confidence former Labour minister Warren documentation as their decisions are subject Pitt would re-contest . . . Mulgrave was to review by the Court of Appeal. dealt a blow yesterday when Mr Pitt Consequently, they are very aware of the revealed he remained to be convinced need to keep documentation. Reading the the ALP was 'on the right track'." documents sent by Mr Hanger and other members of the commission of inquiry into the The paper quoted Mr Pitt as saying— CJC, it seems to me that they have been "Before I make up my mind, I want to required to keep the same documentation. be convinced the party has learnt the Consequently, there was not any interference. lessons that were handed out at the State Mr Carruthers was not asked to produce any and Federal levels over the last two documentation or anything else—not even years." comments on how he arrived at his The Opposition Leader can have an election if conclusions. On that point, I presume that he he likes, but he has not got a candidate for has arrived at conclusions because it has Mulgrave! been several weeks since the inquiry's public hearings were completed. Certainly by this stage he would be writing those conclusions Inquiry into Criminal Justice up. Commission The member for Yeronga's inference in Mr FOLEY: I refer the Attorney-General relation to the inquiry is certainly not apparent and Minister for Justice to the legal opinion of from the material provided—far from it, in fact. the former President of the Bar Association, From reading through the opinion, it is quite Walter Sofronoff, QC, who, in his independent clear that it is written more from a political point advice to Mr Carruthers, stated— than a legal one. Quite frankly, when one reads it, it is clear that several sections of it "We have been unable to turn up a relate to political issues and not to legal single case in which an on-going matters. independent inquiry authorised by statute has itself been made answerable to another inquiry set up by persons whose Hospital Waiting Lists own conduct is the very subject of the Mr CARROLL: I refer the Minister for original inquiry." Health to recent media reports which have As first law officer, does the Attorney-General quoted the Labor Opposition as claiming that not agree that it is scandalous that Premier waiting lists at the Royal Brisbane Hospital Borbidge and Police Minister Cooper, through have risen, and I ask: can the Minister please their participation in Cabinet, have been able tell the House the real situation of the Royal to sabotage the Carruthers inquiry into their Brisbane Hospital's waiting lists? own conduct? Mr HORAN: I thank the honourable Mr BEANLAND: I thank the honourable member for his question. How devastated and member for Yeronga, who gave the taxpayers disappointed the good staff of the Royal of this State a $105m black hole in the Brisbane Hospital must be by the actions of 3646 Questions Without Notice 30 Oct 1996 the Opposition spokesperson, the member for leadership in respect of the time that people Mount Coot-tha. It is a pity she is leaving the wait for elective surgery. What did we see over Chamber at the moment. six years under the previous Government? Mr Springborg: She's going to find Only once was it ever prepared to announce more victims. the waiting lists. What did it do about it? It issued a 32-page booklet containing 18 pages Mr HORAN: She was the person who of definitions. trawled around, with all of her parliamentary colleagues, to search for a victim a day to try What did we do? We put in place a to keep Horan at bay. funded plan which provided waiting list coordinators, theatre nurse educators, An Opposition member interjected. workplace reform within the theatres and Mr HORAN: What a pity that the Labor cooperation between the surgical specialists, Party does not even have the Australian nurses and administrators. We put in place a courage to call each other "mates". They call plan. We are prepared to say to the public, each other "comrades". Do members opposite "This is the target." We issue 177 media have some sort of ambition to be sputnik releases every month containing all the pilots? figures. And members opposite reckon they Mr SCHWARTEN: I rise to a point of have obtained leaked information! Every order. I rise in defence of the RSL, whose month, 177 sets of facts and figures are members refer to their comrades as issued, yet members opposite reckon they "comrades". The attack made on them—— have obtained some leaked information! Mr SPEAKER: There is no point of The point I wish to make today is that the order. staff at the Royal Brisbane Hospital should be congratulated on achieving a magnificent step Mr HORAN: On Sunday—— forward in reducing the time that people wait Mr Schwarten: You dirty rat, attacking for elective surgery. Under the Labor the Salvation Army like that. Government, people were lying in pain for years. To someone lying in pain who is in Mr HORAN: I have heard it all now. Mr need of an operation, only one thing matters: Schwarten is comparing himself to the how long they have to wait for their operation. Salvation Army. Our program is about reducing the time that Mr SCHWARTEN: I rise to a point of people wait. We set targets. order. It so happens that close relatives of my Mr Livingstone: When are you going to family are very senior people in the Salvation fix the operating theatres in Ipswich? Army. I am much aggrieved by the accusation that I am either irreligious or that I have no Mr HORAN: The honourable member respect for the Salvation Army and the fine knows that things will not be done overnight; work it does. I ask that filthy grub to withdraw trying to clean up the mess that the it. honourable member's Government left us will take time. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I find that remark unparliamentary and I ask the honourable We set the target that, after six member to withdraw it. months—by the end of this year—we would have no more than 5 per cent long waits. I Mr SCHWARTEN: I withdraw it. wish to tell the Queensland Parliament about Mr HORAN: Mr Speaker, can you what the Royal Brisbane Hospital has imagine how devastated the staff at the Royal achieved. Since 1 July, they have reduced the Brisbane Hospital were—— time that people wait for long-wait Category 1 Opposition members: Withdraw. surgery from 34.9 per cent to 26.9 per cent. Those figures are as of 1 October. Did the Mr HORAN: Whatever the honourable member for Mount Coot-tha, Mrs Edmond, member asked me to withdraw, I will withdraw praise or thank them for achieving that? No. it quite happily. All she did was denigrate them. Mr Speaker, can you imagine how the As to Category 2, under which category staff at the Royal Brisbane Hospital felt, given patients should have an operation within 90 that they have undertaken under Surgery on days—we have reduced the percentage of Time to meet this most difficult of targets, that patients who wait for more than 90 days from is, to reduce the time that people wait for 26 per cent to 20 per cent. Was there any elective surgery? Of all the Governments in praise for that? No. The shadow Minister just Australia, only one State Government is said that the Category 2 waiting list had grown. prepared to set some high targets and provide It has grown. What a measure of success it is 30 Oct 1996 Questions Without Notice 3647 that we could actually reduce the time that Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point people wait and reduce the percentage of of order. people who have long waits despite the fact Mr HORAN: In conclusion, I once again that more people have come onto that list. Do praise the staff at the Royal Brisbane Hospital honourable members know why they came for their outstanding achievement. Surgery on onto the list? It is because members opposite Time has been a plan and a policy of this did not record minor and private operations, Government, but it is the staff of Queensland and we do. As to Category 3, under which Health who are making these achievements category people should not wait for more than possible. I thank the nurses and doctors for 12 months—at the Royal Brisbane Hospital we this outstanding achievement, and I condemn have reduced the percentage of patients the member for Mount Coot-tha for her slur on waiting longer than 12 months from 37.3 per the staff of Queensland Health and the Royal cent to 34.69 per cent. Brisbane Hospital. It is time that parliamentarians started to thank and praise the good staff of the public hospital system who are making possible Carruthers Inquiry; Inquiry into these outstanding achievements. It is about Criminal Justice Commission time recognition was given to a Government Mr ELDER: In directing a question to which has the ticker to stand up and say, the Attorney-General, I refer to his duty as "These are the targets. This is what we are Attorney-General to defend the integrity of the trying to achieve. We know how tough it is. We legal system and to the actual interference know the constraints of finance. We know the with the independence of the Carruthers demands. We are not frightened to have a inquiry by his Government's politically inspired go." Connolly commission, and I ask: did he advise Cabinet of the conflict of interest involved in Mr Mr NUNN: I rise to a point of order. Mr Borbidge and Mr Cooper participating in the Speaker, the Minister need not carry on with Cabinet decision designed to sabotage the all this rubbish. We freely acknowledge that he very inquiry scrutinising their conduct, or is this got rid of the waiting lists in Hervey Bay by the just another case of a weak Liberal Attorney- simple masterstroke of closing down the General abandoning legal principle in favour of surgical ward there. political expediency to protect his National Mr SPEAKER: Order! I will get rid of the Party masters? point of order. I ask the Minister to conclude Mr BEANLAND: I thank the member for his answer. Capalaba for his question. I am surprised that Mr HORAN: I take that interjection. In he is able to even come up with a question in three years, they did only 90 operations at the House. The member for Capalaba has their day surgery at Hervey Bay. What gets up some difficulties with his position. his nose is that—— As to the Cabinet which decided the Mr NUNN: I rise to a point of order. I terms of reference—let me say that in no way seek some clarification. Is the Minister saying do the terms of reference interfere with Mr that those 95 patients were not worth Carruthers' inquiry in that they do not refer to operating on? Is that what he is saying? I Mr Carruthers' inquiry in any shape or form. demand a clarification of that point on behalf Mr T. B. Sullivan: They nobbled him. of the people of Hervey Bay. Mr BEANLAND: The only nobbling Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point going on is that by the Labor Party of the of order. Before I call the Minister, I say to my current commission of inquiry into the Criminal poor old father that they are harder to handle Justice Commission. What this process is all than those scrubbers we ran that day in the about today is the intimidation and nobbling of back paddock! the current inquiry by the Labor Party. The Mr HORAN: I thank the honourable advice to Mr Carruthers from Mr Sofronoff member for Hervey Bay for his interjection. I pointed out to Mr Carruthers that, if he felt that know he is upset that we are going to fully he was being affected in any way—nobbled, if fund the Hervey Bay Hospital. That is what members want to put it that way—it could upsets him. constitute a contempt and he could take some action in that regard. The fact is that he did Mr NUNN: I rise to a point of order. It is not seek to take any action in that regard at not this Government which is fully funding the all. Mr Carruthers quite clearly felt comfortable. Hervey Bay Hospital, it was funded by a Labor He did not seek to initiate contempt Party Government. proceedings, because perhaps that was not 3648 Questions Without Notice 30 Oct 1996 the real issue. Had it been an issue, he would of a document tabled in Parliament on 11 have initiated contempt proceedings. Judges October purporting to be a list of coalition of the Supreme Court come under pressure reviews? Of the 12 reviews identified as being from time to time on a range of matters. The undertaken by or on behalf of the Justice pressure facing Mr Carruthers was no different Department, could the Attorney-General from—and was probably a good deal less indicate how many result from Labor's failure than—that which he faced on hundreds of to tackle problems during its six and a half other occasions. years in office? As to the terms of reference—it is quite Mr BEANLAND: I am very pleased to clear that they are broad terms of reference answer that question. I thank the member for looking at the operations, the functions and Maroochydore for her very careful noting of the role of the Criminal Justice Commission. In the rubbish that the Labor Party proffers in this no way do they interfere—and they are not place from time to time. The Leader of the intended to interfere—with the functioning of Opposition has tried to gain some currency out the Carruthers inquiry. In fact, Mr Carruthers of these so-called inquiries and reviews. In had already finished hearing all of the relation to my portfolio area, there are really submissions—— seven matters that fall into the category Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I rise to a point of outlined by the member for Maroochydore. I order. The Attorney-General is misleading the will refer to some of those matters. House to this extent—— Following Labor's neglect, an update and Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will rewriting of the Auctioneers and Agents Act is state the point of order. currently under way. There is no review. There Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: My point of order is a good deal of public consultation occurring is that the Attorney-General is misleading the and a good deal of discussion with people in House. The effects of the broad terms of the public arena. If the Labor Party is saying reference were pointed out to him by me in that the Government should not do that, fair the second-reading debate on the Criminal enough. The Labor Government did not Justice Amendment Bill, but he chose to consult widely. The problem with the ignore me. Auctioneers and Agents Act has been around now for six and a half years—longer than that, Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point in fact. Issues were being confronted by the of order. former National Party Government when it lost Mr BEANLAND: That was obviously a office. Those issues were not taken up by the debating point and not a point of order. former Government during its six and a half Clearly, the fact that Mr Carruthers did not years, but we are certainly getting on with that seek to take action in relation in contempt task. We will produce new legislation in this proceedings shows that he was comfortable at area following widespread public consultation. the end of the day with that point. Judges of No committee has been appointed to review the Supreme Court continuously come under this matter. There is no inquiry. No review as pressure in their positions. In this case, Mr such is taking place, but very extensive public Carruthers did not feel that he was under that consultation is under way. type of pressure, and he accordingly As to the justices of the peace proceeded to go on his own way, after having legislation—amendments have already been cost the public of Queensland a good deal of brought into this place. It was a case of going money. through the current legislation. Do members It has been said that this in some way opposite claim that I am not supposed to read benefits this side of the House. It certainly through legislation before producing material does not. It leaves a grave shadow hanging for this place? That is a load of nonsense! Of over at least two members on this side of the course one has to review what is currently in House and also some members of the the legislation and give it consideration. But Australian Labor Party. Those matters need to there is no public inquiry or investigation or be resolved clearly and conclusively, and I call anything else. The same applies to the review on the Criminal Justice Commission to do so of the PCJC reviews. I have been going expeditiously. The terms of reference speak through that documentation also. That is for themselves. something which the Labor Party apparently never bothered to do, because there are issues which go back five years or more—to Justice Department Reviews the time when the honourable member for Miss SIMPSON: I ask the Attorney- Brisbane Central was chairman of the General and Minister for Justice: is he aware parliamentary committee—that were never 30 Oct 1996 Questions Without Notice 3649 acted upon by the former Government. There demanding that Mr Carruthers hand over all is also the issue of the reform of the court his documents, including—and I quote from rules, which are subject to judicial approval in the Hanger letter to him of 24 October—— due course. That matter was not proceeded A Government member interjected. with by the former Government. Mr BRADDY: No, this is a direct quote As to wheel clamping—the former from Mr Hanger's letter to Mr Carruthers. Mr Government did set up an alternative dispute Hanger demanded that he hand over all his resolution group to canvass wheel-clamping documents, including "drafts of your reports in issues. But once again, there has been no the category of documents which should not inquiry on our part into this, except that we be destroyed", and when refused, warned took the Victorian report and the material Carruthers to "do as he was told" or face the produced here and made a decision. I think coercive powers of the Connolly commission. the Leader of the Labor Party is concerned about the decision-making processes. We Mr BEANLAND: I think it is fair to say actually make decisions and get on with that the claim that Mr Carruthers was being them—unlike the members opposite when asked to hand over some documentation has they were in office. Another issue is already been totally rejected today by one of country courthouses. We are certainly not the joint commissioners of the inquiry. What undertaking a review there; we are getting on he was asked was simply not to destroy any with the job of making a determination on documents, and that is quite clear in the which courthouses might be reopened. There documentation sent by Mr Hanger and others. is also the matter of the Bail Act. I had a There was a request not to destroy discussion with some people about that, but documentation. One can imagine that the there is certainly no review or investigation Opposition and others—the public at under way. large—would be saying how stupid this commission of inquiry would be if in fact it did The only matter in relation to which one not ask for all documents to be preserved. I could say that there is an actual review is the can imagine the chorus opposite claiming that Criminal Justice Commission—a matter which it failed to do its job. the Opposition has been noisily debating this morning. There has been an update of the Mr Borbidge: They're very good at Criminal Code following the mess created by shredding over there. the former Government. All members of the Mr BEANLAND: They are very good at legal profession and members of this House shredding and taking cheap shots. Their will be aware of the mess that was created actions in relation to the Heiner documents with the draft code after some five years of illustrated how good they are at shredding! stagnation by the former Government. It is only fair and reasonable that any It is clear that this Government getting on documentation be preserved. Mr Clair, the with the job. There are 12 matters relating to Chairman of the Criminal Justice Commission, the Department of Justice. It is a complete had no problem with this. Under no furphy and there can be no currency given to circumstances were these documents sought; the allegation by the Labor Party that this it was simply requested that they not be Government is a Government of review—far destroyed. For members opposite to try to from it! This is a Government that makes portray something otherwise is a falsehood, decisions—a Government of action. and that was made perfectly clear on radio this morning by one of the joint commissioners. Carruthers Inquiry; Inquiry into Criminal Justice Commission Sunday Race Meetings Mr BRADDY: I refer the Attorney- Mr HEALY: I refer the Minister for Police General to his speech in this Parliament on 11 and Corrective Services and Minister for October in which he said— Racing to the fact that newspaper reports "To suggest that in some way any indicate that he has approved the transfer of inquiry now is going to change his mind up to 15 Saturday race dates to Sundays for and particularly alter the judicial manner in the Sunshine Coast Turf Club and that which he might operate casts a slur on Mr Caloundra will secure the exclusive rights to Carruthers himself." race on Sundays in south-east Queensland. I ask: how does the Attorney reconcile this Will the Minister outline the details of this statement with the actions of Ian Hanger, who decision? directly interfered with the Carruthers inquiry by Mr Braddy interjected. 3650 Questions Without Notice 30 Oct 1996

Mr Lingard interjected. I have informed the Sunshine Coast Turf Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the Minister Club that I support its proposal in principle. I for Police, and I ask the member for Kedron have also informed the club that its application and the Minister for Family Services to cease for a change in race days, betting meetings interjecting to one another across the and any exclusivity arrangements will require Chamber. the approval of the Racing Industry Coordinating Committee. The Sunshine Coast Mr COOPER: I think it is about time we Turf Club has thanked me for my in-principle had a question about the gee-gees. support and it has advised that it will now Mr T. B. Sullivan interjected. submit its application to the Queensland Mr COOPER: Think about the Principal Club and the RICC, which is the Melbourne Cup and things like that. All sorts of normal process. I wish it well. things are about to happen. Mr Mackenroth: It's good to talk about Carruthers Inquiry something else for a change, isn't it? Mr HAMILL: I refer the Premier to Mr COOPER: There are lots of things to statements by Commissioner Kenneth talk about. We have had eight months of Carruthers, QC, when he said of the Premier talking about that other matter. There are and his Police Minister— other things to talk about—my oath there are. "Two of the persons into whose I recognise the knowledge and support of conduct and possible misconduct I am and the work done by the member for currently inquiring have participated in Toowoomba North for the racing industry setting up a commission of inquiry into my across the State, and especially for the inquiry into them." Toowoomba Turf Club. Of course, it is his role, as it is the role of any member of Parliament, Is it not an undeniable fact that the real to represent his area. The member does a reason the Premier established the Connolly tremendous amount of work in that regard. In commission was that he and his Police the near future, I intend to visit Toowoomba Minister were in the dock and he had to get rid and to meet with people involved in the of the judge before the judge brought down industry there because I also recognise the his verdict on the Premier? tremendous input that they have to the Mr BORBIDGE: In reply to the sick economy of racing in Queensland. mind opposite, the answer is: no. In answer to the member's question, I want to make it very clear that I have not Property Owners; Heritage Register overridden any of the decision-making processes of either the Queensland Principal Mr J. N. GOSS: I ask the Minister for Club—QPC—or the Racing Industry Environment: what action has he taken to Coordinating Committee—RICC—relating to prevent unprincipled property owners from those approved changes. I have received a flouting the law and destroying properties with submission from the Sunshine Coast Turf Club significant heritage values? Does he agree to transfer those 15 race dates from Saturday with the Opposition's claim that he, as to Sunday to take advantage of the higher Minister, can simply place stop orders over all prize money and incentives available to properties nominated for listing on the heritage Caloundra for Sunday racing. register? Following a recommendation from the Mr LITTLEPROUD: Recently, there has RICC, the higher prize money for Sunday been a lot of discussion and some quite inane racing was recently approved by me. The suggestions made by various people about Sunshine Coast Turf Club was the only race the quite premeditated and calculated breach club prepared to take the risk of racing on of the law relating to demolition of properties some Sundays when New South Wales and that have heritage value. I will deal with the Victoria staged race meetings. The increased last part of the question first. prize money recommended by the RICC for The member for Everton suggested that, Sunday racing was a strategy designed to as Minister, I should put a stop work order on encourage Caloundra to cover more of those every property that is being nominated for meetings. This move is strongly supported by listing. When I became the Minister, 500 the TAB, which stands to gain from increased buildings were still waiting for assessment and turnover from Sunday betting which in turn currently more than 50 buildings per month benefits the whole industry right across the are being nominated for listing. The State—and that should be remembered. department assesses and deals with about 50 30 Oct 1996 Questions Without Notice 3651 nominations per month, so there is a backlog its records and, if it thinks that a building has of about 500. got heritage value, then it can put a stop work Mr Welford: What are you doing then? order on that building straightaway. The two of us are working together, and with that sort of Mr LITTLEPROUD: I will give an cooperation we will be able to nab these example of what could happen if I took the people; they will no longer be able to flout the absurd suggestion of the member for Everton laws of Queensland. to its conclusion. I understand that the Leader of the Opposition lives in a very nice old I also advise members of the House that I Queenslander. Some vexatious person could have written a letter to Mr Greg Hallam of the make a frivolous nomination of his house and Local Government Association of Queensland a quick assessment could be made by asking for his comment on how else this law someone, which would mean that I would might be applied across the State. have to put a stop work order on his door. Unfortunately, a few people in Brisbane have There could be 500 of those across the State, taken notice of a bloke who previously got and every two months I would have to go and away with a lesser fine by being too smart and replace those orders. That is quite impractical. being prepared to pay $15,000 rather than come under the full force of the provisions of Last Friday, I met with the Lord Mayor the Queensland Heritage Act. I believe that we because he, too, shares my concern about will now be able to thwart those types of the operational problems with the current people. regulations. Between the two of us, we are determined to nab some of these people who are presently taking advantage of those Carruthers Inquiry operational problems in the law. I will elaborate. First of all, if a person knocks over a Mr BARTON: I ask the Minister for building before it is nominated for listing, that Police: why should fair-minded Queenslanders person is in breach of the Queensland not see through his plot and realise that Building Act and the Local Government Commissioner Ken Carruthers is his version of Planning Act, and the penalty for such an act former Police Commissioner Ray Whitrod in is no more than about $15,000. However, if a that both were hounded out of their jobs after person's actions came under the Queensland suffering political interference from National Heritage Act, that is, demolition occurred after Party Ministers? a property had been nominated and some Mr COOPER: That is an incredible assessments were made, the fine could climb question. That is about all we could expect up to about $1m or more. Some people are from someone such as the member. He never quite deliberately working out what is the best asks any questions of any sense. It is a road to take if they want to break the law; they ludicrous, stupid question. It is a pointless, are breaking the law before they come under silly, stupid question that does not require and the full effect of the Queensland Heritage Act. does not deserve any sort of answer. I can tell the honourable member for Everton that today I have written to the Lord Mayor and, using section 7 of the Act, I have Industrial Relations Legislation given him a delegated power, authorised by Mr HARPER: I ask the Minister for me, to carry out the powers of the Queensland Training and Industrial Relations: can he Heritage Act. People understand that local inform the House of what safeguards authorities throughout the State have the best Queensland workers will enjoy under the contact with their own local communities. Government's proposed industrial relations Mr Beattie: Can you do that? legislation? Mr LITTLEPROUD: I can; it is allowed Mr SANTORO: The answer to the for in the Act. The Brisbane City Council member's question obviously requires a lot already has a register of the sorts of buildings more time than I have available to me. and precincts which it thinks have heritage Nevertheless, I will do my best in the few value. Last week, one member of the seconds available. First of all, the Brisbane City Council had a discussion with a Borbidge/Sheldon Government is determined member of the public who had a demolition to maintain a very strong and independent order refused. Unfortunately, that councillor did Queensland Industrial Relations Commission. not make contact with my department. I have Honourable members opposite have always now delegated that power to the Lord Mayor. said that this Government was going to If he becomes aware of an application for a abolish the commission. They have a demolition, the council can very quickly refer to tremendous amount of mud on their faces, 3652 Bank Merger (Banksa and Advance Bank) Bill 30 Oct 1996 because that particular commission will, in fact, Officers who enter a contract of remain. employment for a fixed term will have their Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time for remuneration protected by section 70 of the questions has expired. Public Service Act, which states that a person's remuneration under the contract must not be less than if that person were PUBLIC SERVICE AMENDMENT BILL employed on tenure. This clause will provide Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers for officers on contract to seek a remedy Paradise—Premier) (11.30 a.m.), by leave, before the Industrial Relations Commission in without notice: I move— a case where the contract is considered to be unfair, harsh or unconscionable, against the "That leave be granted to bring in a public interest or provides a total remuneration Bill for an Act to amend the Public Service less than a person performing the work as an Act 1996." employee. The current legal situation is that Motion agreed to. decisions made under a contract of employment are not subject to the application of the Judicial Review Act. Matters relating to First Reading the removal of statutory office holders who are Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and not already exempted under the Act or the Bill, on motion of Mr Borbidge, read a first regulation are also excluded from review. time. The removal of statutory office holders has received considerable comment in the Second Reading debate on the Public Service Act. The Act prescribes certain exemptions at section 11 Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers and section 109. I made it clear during the Paradise—Premier) (11.31 a.m.): I move— debate that other quasi-judicial bodies and "That the Bill be now read a second offices critical to the body politic of the State time." would be exempted by regulation. No-one in The clause that is proposed for insertion this House has suggested that the into the Public Service Act 1996 deals with Government of the day should not have the matters which are excluded from review under right to determine who provides them with other Acts and relate to the more senior policy advice. The exemption from judicial officers in the Public Service, such as— review ensures that the Government may make adjustments to the statutory bodies not Commissioner, Office of the Public exempted from the application of Part 8 of the Service; Act without the potential for such removal to Chief executives and senior executives; be opened up to review under the Judicial and Review Act and thereby delaying and Senior officers. frustrating the operation of the body concerned. It also impacts on statutory office holders removed from their office in terms of this Act. Finally, existing tenured SES officers and In addition, matters concerning any other senior officers employed on tenure will have officer on a contract of employment are their current rights of review to the Supreme covered by this provision. Court under judicial review continued and protected under this clause. I commend the An excluded matter is not an industrial Bill to the House. matter for the purposes of the Industrial Relations Act 1990. Under the current Debate, on motion of Ms Bligh, legislation, officers employed on contract are adjourned. not subject to any industrial award or agreement or rule of an industrial tribunal. BANK MERGER (BANKSA AND Currently, SES levels are not subject to awards ADVANCE BANK) BILL or industrial agreements. The senior officer level, replacing the SES 1 level, are similarly Hon. J. M. SHELDON (Caloundra— exempted under this Act. Under the Act, Deputy Premier, Treasurer and Minister for senior officers will be, in the main, on tenure. The Arts) (11.34 a.m.), by leave, without These officers and existing tenured SES notice: I move— officers will retain the right to seek remedy "That leave be granted to bring in a before the Industrial Relations Commission in Bill for an Act to provide for the merger of the case of unfair dismissal. the Bank of South Australia Limited with 30 Oct 1996 Consumer Law and Other Justice Legislation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 3653

Advance Bank Australia Limited and for Challenge Bank (Transfer of Undertaking) Act related purposes." 1996. It is essential for this legislation to be Motion agreed to. passed urgently to ensure uniform proclamation in all States. South Australia has requested that the legislation be operative by First Reading 1 December 1996 in order to enable a Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and coordinated transfer of undertakings across all Bill, on motion of Mrs Sheldon, read a first jurisdictions. I commend the Bill to the House. time. Debate, on motion of Mr Hamill, adjourned. Second Reading Hon. J. M. SHELDON CONSUMER LAW AND OTHER (Caloundra—Deputy Premier, Treasurer and JUSTICE LEGISLATION Minister for The Arts) (11.35 a.m.): I move— (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) BILL "That the Bill be now read a second Hon. D. E. BEANLAND (Indooroopilly— time." Attorney-General and Minister for Justice) (11.37 a.m.), by leave, without notice: I In June 1995, the South Australian move— Government reached an agreement to sell the Bank of South Australia (BankSA) to Advance "That leave be granted to bring in a Bank Australia Limited (Advance) as the final Bill for an Act to amend various consumer stage in the corporatisation of the former State law Acts and other Acts administered by Bank of South Australia. BankSA is required the Attorney-General and Minister for under Reserve Bank regulations to surrender Justice, and for other purposes." its banking licence. It is thus necessary to Motion agreed to. transfer BankSA's undertakings to Advance. The South Australian Government has passed legislation transferring the South Australian First Reading assets and liabilities and has requested that Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and complementary legislation be passed in all Bill, on motion of Mr Beanland, read a first other States and Territories, with the exception time. of the Australian Capital Territory and Tasmania. Second Reading The aim of the Bill is to transfer the Queensland undertakings of BankSA to Hon. D. E. BEANLAND (Indooroopilly— Advance. The transfer could be achieved Attorney-General and Minister for Justice) without legislation being enacted. However, (11.38 a.m.): I move— legislation overcomes the administrative "That the Bill be now read a second burden of transferring assets and liabilities time." individually. In addition, legislation has other The objective of this Bill is to amend a beneficial effects in that it achieves continuity number of statutes administered by the Office in customer relationships and staff of Consumer Affairs and two statutes entitlements as well as providing protection for administered by the Department of Justice. persons dealing with either bank in respect of The amendments contained in this Bill are transferred assets and liabilities. A further designed to increase consumer protection, objective of the legislation is to provide an streamline certain administrative procedures, exemption for Advance from State taxes and overcome unintended statutory anomalies and charges (primarily stamp duty), which normally validate the exercise of powers by would be payable, on the condition that a departmental officers. lump sum in lieu of all charges is paid. The amount of that payment will be determined by Amendments to the Associations Governor in Council upon my advice. Incorporation Act 1981 are designed to assist Preliminary indications are that the amount will associations in country areas, or which have be $440,000, which will be paid by Advance to Statewide membership, by providing that management committee meetings may be the Consolidated Fund. held by way of telephone, video link or another Queensland legislation of this nature has form of communication. This amendment will been enacted on several occasions to effect provide a practical alternative to face-to-face vesting of banking undertakings and to committee meetings, which are often difficult facilitate bank mergers, most recently the because of Queensland's vast distances. The 3654 Consumer Law and Other Justice Legislation (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 30 Oct 1996

Act presently provides that management register is replete with registrations relating to committee meetings must be held every two interests which have expired. The Act has months. This amendment will ease the therefore been amended to provide that, regulatory burden on Queensland's when security interests are registered, the associations, with management committee registration will expire at the end of five years, meetings now required to be held quarterly. Of but can be renewed for an additional five course, if they choose to, associations may years. The register will be progressively hold meetings more frequently. expunged of spent interests to bring it into line Under the Act, the secretary of the with this new directive. association must be a resident of Queensland. There are also a number of important This is a problem for associations located in amendments to the Registration of Births, border districts where, for example, the Deaths and Marriages Act 1962. Where a association is based in Coolangatta and the child's parents are not married and where the proposed secretary is a resident of Tweed father can be registered as the child's father, Heads. In order to assist these associations, an application can be made to change the an amendment has been made which will surname of the child. Currently, the only way in allow a person to be the secretary of the which the change of surname can be association if the person lives within 65 registered is by combining the surnames of kilometres of the Queensland border. The Act the mother and the father, or in the mother's also provides that an association can only be name. Logically the Act should allow for the incorporated as a branch of its parent body if choice of the father's surname only, if the parent body is incorporated under the required. The Act has therefore been Associations Incorporation Act. This has amended to allow this. created problems where an association is Presently, the parents of a minor may precluded from incorporating under the Act apply to change the first name(s) of a child. because the parent body is incorporated This facility does not apply to the parents of under the Corporations Law, or under the law adopted children. This has caused a great of another State or Territory. The Act has deal of distress to the parents of adopted therefore been amended to allow the children who may wish to change, or add to, incorporation of the branch of a parent entity the names of their children. The Act has incorporated under another Act. Currently the therefore been amended to give the parents Act requires associations to take out insurance of adopted children the same rights as the cover of $100,000. This amount is clearly parents of non-adopted children. inadequate for the needs of modern associations. To cure this problem, an The Act has also been amended to amendment has been made to allow provide a method to overcome delays in associations to secure insurance of at least relation to the issue of post-mortem certificates $1m. under the Act. The amending provision allows another doctor to complete the post-mortem The Bill amends the Land Sales Act 1984 certificate, where the certificate is completed and the Mobile Homes Act 1989 to provide for on the basis of the clinical notes made by the the appointment of inspectors and the original examining doctor. provision of investigation powers. As honourable members will be aware, for many The Classification of Publications Act years the enforcement of these Acts has been 1991, the Classification of Films Act 1991 and difficult because inspectors have been unable the Classification of Computer Games and to enter private land or require production of Images (Interim) Act 1995 are amended in this documents in order to assist them with their Bill so that they accord with the provisions of inquiries. It was particularly difficult to carry out the Commonwealth Classification investigations under the Mobile Homes Act (Publications, Films and Computer Games) Act because inspectors could not enter private 1995. These amendments make provision for parkland to interview complainants. These a number of technical amendments to amendments will now enable officers from Queensland's censorship regime. The Consumer Affairs to fully investigate and enactment of the Commonwealth Act has pursue potential breaches of the legislation. compelled a number of changes to The Motor Vehicles Securities Act 1986 Queensland censorship Acts, which include— has been amended to provide for the renewal 1. replacing references in the three Acts to of registrations under the Act. Presently, the the former Australian Capital Territory Act does not require the holder of a security ordinance, offices and procedures with interest to provide for an expiry date for the references to those contained in the new registration of the interest. This means that the Commonwealth Act; 30 Oct 1996 Drugs Misuse Amendment Bill 3655

2. ensuring that the Classification of Films Debate, on motion of Ms Spence, Act 1991, like the two other censorship adjourned. Acts, "picks up" the decisions of the Commonwealth censor and enables them to be enforced in Queensland; DRUGS MISUSE AMENDMENT BILL 3. inserting provisions enabling the Hon. T. R. COOPER (Crows Nest— Commonwealth censor to "call in" certain Minister for Police and Corrective Services and publications, thereby facilitating Minister for Racing) (11.47 a.m.), by leave, compliance with the legislation; and without notice: I move— 4. ensuring that the enforcement provisions "That leave be granted to bring in a Bill for an Act to amend the Drugs Misuse accord as far as is practicable with those Act 1986 and for other purposes." contained in the model State/Territory Classification (Publications, Films and Motion agreed to. Computer Games) (Enforcement) Bill prepared for censorship Ministers. First Reading This Bill also contains amendments to the Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and Roman Catholic Church Lands Act 1985 and Bill, on motion of Mr Cooper, read a first time. the Roman Catholic Church (Northern Lands) Vesting Act 1941. These amendments have been made at the request of the Roman Second Reading Catholic Church, so that title to certain Hon. T. R. COOPER (Crows Nest— properties at Cardwell and Coorparoo will be Minister for Police and Corrective Services and legislatively vested in Roman Catholic Church Minister for Racing) (11.48 a.m.): I move— entities. "That the Bill be now read a second The Scout Association of Australia time." Queensland Branch wishes to change its status from a corporation under the Religious, The purpose of this Bill is to amend the Educational and Charitable Institutions Act Drugs Misuse Act 1986 to overcome a number 1861 to a corporation under the Associations of deficiencies which became apparent after a Incorporation Act 1981. The Scout Association recent incident on the Gold Coast. Members of Australia Queensland Branch Act 1975 is will be aware that a number of young people amended in this Bill to effect this. were hospitalised after ingesting a drug known colloquially as "Fantasy" or "GBH". I do not Under the Partnership (Limited Liability) propose to comment on the specifics of that Act 1988 there is no mechanism whereby the matter, except to outline that the incident registrar may cancel registration of a limited served to highlight a number of deficiencies liability partnership which is no longer in within the Drugs Misuse Act. existence, unless one of the partners notifies the office of its dissolution. This Bill amends The first of these is that GHB, the the Act so that the registrar may, by inquiry of substance which caused the problem on the the firm's general partner and by public notice, Gold Coast, is not presently listed as a take action to cancel the registration of dangerous drug within the Act. Despite the defunct partnerships. obvious dangers of the drug, no moves have yet been made to include this and other newly In addition, numerous Acts have been identified drugs within the scheme of the Act. amended in the Bill to streamline Recent years have seen the proliferation of administrative procedures and to overcome what have come to be termed "designer drafting anomalies. These include drugs". These have proven popular with amendments to the Second-hand Dealers and certain elements within the "dance party" or Collectors Act 1984, the Business Names Act "rave party" culture. Their popularity appears 1962, the Cooperative and Other Societies Act to stem from the fact that they are both 1967, the Juvenile Justice Legislation inexpensive and easily produced, relative to Amendment Act 1996 and the Pawnbrokers the more traditional illicit narcotics. Act 1984. Since the incident on the Gold Coast I The amendments contained in this Bill will have had Inquiries made and have learnt that significantly strengthen consumer protection in apart from GHB, the drugs ketamine and Queensland and provide legislation which is nexus are also recently identified designer practical and receptive to the needs of all drugs which are not included in the scheme of Queenslanders. I commend the Bill to the the Drugs Misuse Act. The drug nexus has House. recently been the subject of a warning from 3656 Drugs Misuse Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 health authorities in New South Wales after it Under the scheme proposed, when a recently penetrated the dance party scene in substance is newly identified as a dangerous that State. At present, drugs such as drug, it can be readily included in the amphetamines, morphine, cannabis and the schedules, and hence into the scheme of the like are included in Schedule 2 to the Drugs Act, by amendment of the regulation. When Misuse Act. In terms of potential dangers, circumstances demand it, this can be addictive qualities and effects on the user, accomplished very quickly. This means that GHB, ketamine and nexus are broadly similar the Police Service can pro-actively use to those types of drugs. For this reason their intelligence from other States and overseas inclusion in Schedule 2 is proposed in this regarding developments in the drug scene, legislation. specifically the appearance of new and It has also been recently identified that in dangerous drugs. Armed with such some illicit laboratories amphetamines are intelligence, authorities can move swiftly to being produced with a recipe which uses the outlaw such substances here—before they hit chemical hypophosphorous acid. This acid has our streets. not previously been identified as an A final aim of the proposed legislation is amphetamine precursor and for this reason the creation of an offence to publish or to does not appear in the Drugs Misuse Act. possess the instructions for the preparation or Precursor chemicals are presently listed in production of a dangerous drug. I have Schedule 6 of the Drugs Misuse Act and are mentioned the proliferation of designer drugs considered controlled substances. This means in the dance and rave party cultures and that that certain reporting requirements attach to their popularity stems, in part, from their their sale and purchase. This legislation relative ease of production. This has in turn led proposes to include hypophosphorous acid in to another disturbing trend, which is the Schedule 6. distribution of recipes for producing certain The second deficiency in the Act is the dangerous drugs by mechanisms such as the fact that it is presently difficult to respond with Internet, or publication in underground drug any urgency to include newly identified magazines. While we recognise that these substances into the Act. The Gold Coast types of activities are very difficult to police, it is incident highlighted the fact that in some nonetheless proposed to create an offence for cases it will be necessary to move very quickly undertaking these activities in an attempt to to include a new substance into the scheme of stop the spread of such information. the Drugs Misuse Act. At present it is not The proposed legislation creates an possible to do this because of the construction offence to publish or have possession of the of the Act. The Act lists the various dangerous instructions for producing a dangerous drug. I drugs in either Schedule 1 or 2, depending on am sure that there will be vociferous criticism its potential dangers. The very worst of the by some on the other side of this Chamber dangerous drugs, cocaine, heroin and the like, who want to paint this Government as are listed in Schedule 1. Schedule 2 lists all draconian and/or impractical in its response. remaining substances deemed by the Act to To those and other critics I say there is as be dangerous drugs. At present over 100 potent and important a symbol in sending a substances are listed. Other schedules are clear message to the young and the unwary then used to assign weights or quantities to that these drugs are not harmless—that they the various drugs so that more serious can in fact cause their deaths. The tragic and penalties apply to the possession, production highly publicised deaths of Anna Wood in or supply of larger quantities. Sydney and Deborah Hanger here in Brisbane To add or remove a substance from the brought that fact bluntly home to many. But schedules entails the creation of a legislative the sad fact is that our young people need amendment and its passage through constant, stark reminders that these drugs can Parliament. As members will be well aware, kill them. Outlawing the publication of recipes and despite the best of intentions, this is a for these drugs may very well not result in process which may take some time. This many convictions. But the act of outlawing legislation proposes to remove the schedules such activity is a forceful message that may from the Act and place them in the Drugs help prevent further deaths. Misuse Regulation 1987. Doing so will It is not intended that this provision will be overcome the problems identified. It is not used to catch and charge every high school intended that the general scheme of the student who finds a recipe while accessing the legislation will be affected and the schedules Internet. The provision is intended to put in will maintain their present relationship with the place strong penalties for those who seek to Act in terms of penalties and so forth. add to the proliferation of dangerous drugs in 30 Oct 1996 Townsville Zinc Refinery Bill 3657 the community. The provision is aimed This project will be the first major industrial squarely at those who would encourage the development in north Queensland for 20 years use of illicit drugs, such as the irresponsible and is seen by the Government as having editor who seeks to distribute the instructions strategic significance to the State. Stage 1 of for producing drugs, or the drug producers the project will produce 170,000 tonnes of zinc who retain collections of recipes which enable ingot annually and represents a capital them to carry on their illegal businesses. investment of over $500m. Almost 600 jobs Overall, the Bill represents necessary will be generated during construction and 350 amendments to the Drugs Misuse Act. The Queenslanders will be employed when the drug scene appears to be a fast-moving refinery is fully operational. Almost equally culture, constantly inventing supplies of new, significant to the State, the company is easily manufactured and extremely harmful expected to source much of its raw materials substances. The police must have the tools at from the north, valued at $150m, leading to their disposal to keep up with the criminals other spin-off benefits to the region and the who are preying on our young people. Just as State. Annual sales from the refinery will earn the nature of illicit drugs and their markets $250m annually, of which more than 85 change, so too must the relevant legislation percent will be export revenue. Townsville and change—and have the capacity to change the region will benefit from the downstream quickly as required. I commend the Bill to the creation of almost 1,700 jobs directly and House. indirectly and the generation of $84m a year of additional income. Debate, on motion of Mr Barton, adjourned. I am sure honourable members will agree with me that investment in north Queensland and creating employment opportunities for the TOWNSVILLE ZINC REFINERY BILL community is desired by both sides of the Hon. D. J. SLACK (Burnett—Minister House. With this Bill, the Government will not for Economic Development and Trade and only be achieving these objectives but will also Minister Assisting the Premier) (11.55 a.m.), by be honouring a commitment to expedite the leave, without notice: I move— project as expressed in the Heads of "That leave be granted to bring in a Agreement signed by the previous Labor Bill for an Act to facilitate the Government. Members will also recall that I establishment of a zinc refinery at recently announced the Government's Townsville." intention to introduce enabling legislation with this commitment in mind and that this had the Motion agreed to. support of the Townsville City Council. The refinery has the potential to create First Reading hundreds of jobs and broaden the industrial Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and base of the north by providing a major Bill, on motion of Mr Slack, read a first time. economic stimulus to important value-adding industries within the region as well as the State. I am confident that it will not be another Second Reading 20 years before the next major industrial Hon. D. J. SLACK (Burnett—Minister development occurs in Townsville. Honourable for Economic Development and Trade and members will be aware that my department is Minister Assisting the Premier) (11.56 a.m.): I facilitating the Townsville Industrial Land move— Project which has as its key objective the "That the Bill be now read a second identification and protection of sufficient land time. to accommodate major industry in Townsville over the next 30 years. This study will address This Bill is the result of a cooperative effort environmental, social, economic and ongoing by local government, the previous State issues, so that residents of the city can be Government and this State Government to assured that such development occurs attract investment to north Queensland and to responsibly. facilitate the establishment and operation of a major economic development of benefit to the The approval by Parliament of the people of Queensland locally, regionally and proposed legislation as soon as possible is Statewide. I refer to the proposed Korea Zinc necessary so that earthworks can commence refinery to be established near Townsville by early in 1997 in order to meet the Sun Metals Corporation Pty Ltd, a subsidiary commencement deadline of 1999 which has of the Korea Zinc Company Limited. been set by this Government. This Bill will 3658 Primary Industries Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 2) 30 Oct 1996 contribute to the achievement of these ago. Therefore, it would be inappropriate to deadlines. present this Bill without acknowledging the The purpose of the Bill is to enable the primary input of the previous Government. We zoning of land for the purposes of a zinc also acknowledge the considerable assistance refinery south of Townsville and just east of a given to us by the Townsville City Council copper refinery. The Bill also includes which demonstrated the council's clear provisions which protect land of cultural awareness of the favourable social and heritage significance to Aboriginal people. The economic impact of this project. Bill is enabling legislation and includes expiry Through an extensive consultation provisions which will allow time for the process, including the impact assessment necessary administrative actions to be study and the strategic plan amendment, it undertaken by Government bodies and by the has been possible to clearly identify and company. address areas of public concern. A native title The construction and operation of the zinc search of the site, adjoining land and refinery will be facilitated using four infrastructure service routes was undertaken mechanisms— by the Department of Natural Resources and it was found that the site and the infrastructure (1) the Bill which is before Parliament; service routes were free of native title (2) a support package for water, implications. waste water, road, rail and power This Government is committed to infrastructure; ensuring that the Townsville region will serve (3) the Townsville refinery agreement as a focal point for value-adding industries and between the Government and the using the infrastructure services such as road, company which stipulates the rail and port facilities already established within environmental conditions which will guide the region. The proposed development will the development and operation of the contribute to ensuring that this commitment is refinery; and met. I commend the Bill to the House. (4) the requirements of the planning Debate, on motion of Mr Beattie, scheme for the City of Townsville. adjourned. The Townsville City Council and the local people clearly support the development proposal and this support is evidenced by the PRIMARY INDUSTRIES LEGISLATION fact that the council initiated an amendment to AMENDMENT BILL (No. 2) its strategic plan which designates the area for Hon. T. J. PERRETT (Barambah— the purposes of a refinery. Only two Minister for Primary Industries, Fisheries and submissions were lodged to this amendment Forestry) (12.04 p.m.), by leave, without when advertised by council. The amendment notice: I move— was forwarded to the Department of Local "That leave be granted to bring in a Government and Planning for assessment Bill for an Act to amend legislation about and a decision by the Honourable Mrs primary industries." McCauley, and was approved by the Governor in Council on 24 October 1996. Motion agreed to. I would like to make three matters very clear about this legislation. The Bill does not First Reading override existing environmental legislation Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and such as the Environmental Protection Act. It Bill, on motion of Mr Perrett, read a first time. does not relieve the company from complying with the normal development standards of the planning scheme for the City of Townsville. Second Reading The Bill simply provides that a parcel of land is zoned for the purposes of a zinc refinery. The Hon. T. J. PERRETT (Barambah— Bill also provides that some 44 hectares of Minister for Primary Industries, Fisheries and land of cultural heritage significance to Forestry) (12.05 p.m.): I move— Aboriginal people are surrendered to the "That the Bill be now read a second Crown and will be protected pursuant to the time." Cultural Record (Landscapes Queensland and The Queensland Government has a long Queensland Estate) Act. and proud history of partnership with this In several respects, this administration is State's primary industries. That partnership is finalising a process which began some time most commonly seen in the organisational 30 Oct 1996 Primary Industries Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 2) 3659 and consultation structures sponsored by this Bill takes the important step of allowing Government and supported by Parliament. them to be considered for membership of the Various statutory bodies exist to regulate bodies that administer the industries for which industries, to protect the public interest in they speak. healthy foods, to strengthen industries, and to I am sure all honourable members will find enable industries to organise and to speak in it odd that Queensland's industry leaders are a unified way with Governments and the able to participate fully in national bodies community. Successive Governments have administered by the Federal Government, but supported this partnership between primary are prohibited from participating in industries and Government. This Bill is about Queensland's bodies. For the benefit of that partnership. honourable members, the following bodies are Over recent years, this Parliament has affected— passed legislation that implemented a system Brisbane Market Authority of formal policy councils as the way the Queensland Abattoir Corporation Government, industry and other interests consulted. Further, a legislated system of Queensland Dairy Authority selection committees was put in place for Queensland Fisheries Management choosing members of statutory authorities, Authority and the leaders of major industry peak bodies Queensland Livestock and Meat Authority were expressly excluded from potential membership of those authorities. Honourable Queensland Sugar Corporation members may recall the concern these The statutory policy councils that are measures caused at the time—concern I abolished will be replaced by advisory or expressed along with other members of the industry development bodies of various types, then Opposition. according to the needs of industry. The When I became Minister earlier this year, I relevant policy councils are those in the made it a priority to examine these structures following industries: the dairy industry, and procedures to see whether they were fisheries, horticulture, the meat industry and effective in delivering what industry, the the sugar industry. community and the Government expected of The above matters are of great them. The policy councils did not seem to importance to the future of Queensland's allow for differences between the various primary industries, and they are a step in the industries. The same structure was used right direction of Government in partnership regardless of the industry. with industry, but I know honourable members In talking to industry leaders and will be most interested in certain other consulting widely within industry, it was clear amendments in this Bill. A number of these that needs varied greatly from industry to are to the Meat Industry Act in regard to the industry. Accordingly, this Bill replaces policy Queensland Livestock and Meat Authority. councils with more flexible bodies that can be The authority has a primary responsibility of structured according to the needs of the ensuring wholesomeness and integrity of industries concerned, and which can change meat. It does so mostly through a system of over time. accrediting meat processing premises and The selection committees have frankly auditing activities at those premises. been a failure, and this Bill repeals the When the new Act was introduced, it gave provisions that force this rigid bureaucratic Queensland the opportunity to go to the process to be used. This Government is leading edge in meat safety. Other States are committed to having the best people possible now following Queensland's lead, introducing as members of these important statutory a modern quality assurance based meat bodies, but the selection committee process inspection system in lieu of the heavily simply adds unnecessary time and cost, with prescriptive and intrusive regularity regimes little gain. previously in place. The authority has met that Under this Bill, merit will still determine challenge and continues to maintain a who sits on the various boards, but the standard in which both industry and process of deciding will be more flexible. We consumers can have full confidence. will no longer have the embarrassment of it However, soon after coming to office, I taking 12 weeks or even more to fill a casual became aware of a looming financial difficulty vacancy. More importantly, we will no longer facing the authority, basically due to an have the embarrassment of industry leaders imbalance between revenue on the one hand being forced to sit on the sidelines, because and expenditure on the other. The ill- 3660 Natural Resources Legislation Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 conceived administrative and financial deficiency from the Queensland statute books, arrangements imposed on the authority by the namely, a series of Henry VIII clauses found in previous Government made the current the Primary Producers' Organisation and situation not only likely but inevitable. It has Marketing Act 1926. This is an old but fallen to this Government to put things right. In important Act that became unworkable after doing so, I have given the instruction that the the Legislative Standards Act 1992 required paramount consideration must at all times be Acts to have proper regard for the institution of to continue the emphasis on meat safety. I Parliament, and especially that subordinate can assure both consumers and industry that legislation should not amend Acts. The meat safety has not been compromised and it Electoral and Administrative Review will not be compromised in any way. Commission was critical of the Primary Producers' Organisation and Marketing Act for While the financial situation of the this fault, and it reflects poorly on the authority is not a matter that threatens its Opposition that it failed to remove these operations in the immediate future, if the provisions while it was in Government. situation is not addressed it could escalate into a potentially serious problem during the next The amendments are not substantive in financial year. Naturally, having become aware nature but procedural. I assure honourable of the situation, I was not prepared to sit idly members and the producer representative by in the hope that the problem would resolve bodies concerned that the intention of the Bill itself. Accordingly, I commissioned a review is to preserve as best as possible the status team to take a good look at the situation. The and constitutions of the bodies. They are review team has reported to me with a set of afforded a little extra flexibility because their recommendations which centre on the need constitutions will be made under ordinary for the authority to develop and implement a regulations rather than the Henry VIII clauses. business plan. While I will be closely In order to remove the Henry VIII clauses, this monitoring the implementation of the business Bill omits specific mention of each of plan, if it proves necessary to take more Canegrowers' district executives and the mill immediate action at some time in the future, suppliers' committees from the Act. Before the then that option needs to be available. relevant part of the Bill is commenced, Accordingly, these amendments provide what regulations will be prepared to ensure that is essentially a "reserve power" to appoint an these executives and committees continue on administrator to the authority, should the need exactly the same basis as before. arise. In closing, the Bill also implements a I want to emphasise that the Bill does not number of minor administrative changes and automatically place the authority under statute law revisions. The explanatory material administration, nor does it automatically that accompanies the Bill provides details of restructure its membership, but it does allow these more minor matters. I am pleased to for this to happen if the need arises. Of commend the Bill to the House. course, such action will only be taken after Debate, on motion of Mr Gibbs, consultation with industry. If an administrator is appointed, the authority's members naturally adjourned. must go out of office, because the administrator takes over the authority. The maximum period of administration allowed NATURAL RESOURCES LEGISLATION under the Bill is two years. AMENDMENT BILL The authority currently has 10 members, Hon. H. W. T. HOBBS (Warrego— one of whom is the chairperson and also chief Minister for Natural Resources) (12.12 p.m.), executive. Under this Bill, the authority will be by leave, without notice: I move— reduced to a maximum of five members at the "That leave be granted to bring in a start of its next term, and the position of Bill for an Act to amend legislation about chairperson and chief executive will be natural resources." separated in accordance with normal commercial practice. This will allow for greater Motion agreed to. guidance and control by the board, and the smaller numbers will allow more focused management. First Reading I am also pleased to inform the House Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and that this Bill finally removes a serious Bill, on motion of Mr Hobbs, read a first time. 30 Oct 1996 Natural Resources Legislation Amendment Bill 3661

Second Reading these plans will involve community Hon. H. W. T. HOBBS (Warrego— consultation and participation. It is necessary Minister for Natural Resources) (12.13 p.m.): I to amend the Act to give these plans move— legislative force. "That the Bill be now read a second The Bill, by the insertion of a new Part 3A time." of the Water Resources Act 1989, will enable the Minister to give clear indications in an The Natural Resources Legislation approved water management plan for a Amendment Bill 1996 amends the Water nominated area on the policies and principles Resources Act 1989 and the River under which the water rights vested in the Improvement Trust Act 1940, and addresses Crown in the nominated area are to be matters considered essential for passage at exercised. Where an approved plan exists, a this time. In respect of the amendments to the decision, agreement or other action which Water Resources Act 1989, the Bill provides impacts on the allocation of water must not be for: inconsistent with the plan. improvement in the management of the The new Part 3A of the Water Resources State's water resources which will assist Act 1989 prescribes the process under which a the resolution of contentious water water management plan will be prepared and management issues in sensitive areas of approved. This includes public notice of a the State such as in Cooper Creek; proposal to prepare a plan for an area and clarification of the appeal provisions in inviting submissions on the draft plan. section 51 of the Water Resources Act Submissions from the public on these notices 1989; and may be made in writing or orally. An oral submission may be recorded and submitted more efficient administration of the as a cassette tape. However, it would be legislation. reasonable to ask persons who wish to make The incremental approach to water oral submissions to do so at the earliest allocation as provided in the Water Resources opportunity to enable departmental officers Act 1989 does not provide a process or power sufficient time to deal with them. for preparing and implementing a water The new section 25N in Part 3A of the Bill management plan that addresses a situation prevents processing of certain licence where further allocations of water should not applications received prior to the day of be made or only be limited to certain types or publication of a notice to prepare a plan. This sizes of water allocation. Such a situation can also applies to proposals to enter into certain arise when it is considered further allocations water agreements and other decisions made would significantly and adversely: or to be made under the Act in relation to affect the existing entitlements of other water allocation which may impact on the authorised users; or water resource. impact on the provision of water for It is essential that there be a cut-off date ecosystems; or for dealing with applications to enable all impact on beneficial flooding enjoyed by relevant considerations and planning to be other land-holders; or undertaken in the water management planning process prior to making decisions a combination of those factors. which could have significant impact on the There are areas of the State where this resource. It may be that a particular licence situation is now arising, such as Cooper Creek, application or water supply proposal is the and this will continue to arise with further trigger for the planning process and the need development and use of the State's finite for a water management plan may not have water resources. arisen but for the scope or perceived impact of The current provisions of the Water the proposal or application received. Resources Act 1989 require the chief The Bill also puts beyond doubt whether a executive to consider any licence application regulatory impact statement is required under received. The chief executive's decision on a the Statutory Instruments Act 1992. The Bill licence application may be, as prescribed, amends section 51(1) and replaces the term subject to appeal to the Land Court. The "person aggrieved" with "dissatisfied person". Government and my department are moving That term is defined in the Bill and clearly to establish water management plans as a identifies persons who may appeal the framework for future licensing decisions in decisions. The term "person aggrieved" was certain areas of the State. The preparation of considered by the Court of Appeal in its 3662 Transport Operations (Marine Safety) Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 decision in Stevenson v. Wenck and Others "That the Bill be now read a second (Appeal No. 224 of 1994) and the court was of time." the view that the term should be given its The purpose of the Transport Operations natural meaning. The natural meaning of the (Marine Safety) Amendment Bill 1996 is to words gave a meaning not intended by the adjust the current legislative framework for Water Resources Act 1989. marine safety in Queensland to provide a clear The new definition of "dissatisfied person" direction for the marine industry and boating will provide for appeals by persons directly public, provide flexibility in the administration of affected by a decision. The term will also marine safety, reinforce the Government's role provide for a person who purchases property in this administration and preserve the legal from a person who was entitled to object to an status of current operators in the industry. application made under section 42. The Submissions from industry have brought amendment puts beyond doubt the persons to my attention several parts of the legislation who may appeal to the Land Court under which are proving unworkable. Owners and section 51(1) and (2). operators of ships built in Queensland are The amended Act also includes specific finding that there is great uncertainty about power for the chief executive to appoint the acceptance of these vessels into the persons as authorised officers to exercise the survey and registration systems of other State powers granted under section 7 of the Water authorities. This will clearly have a devastating Resources Act 1989 for the administration of effect on the Queensland ship-building the Act. industry unless it is corrected. This amending The Bill also amends the River legislation will ensure the continuing strength Improvement Trust 1940 and will provide for of the industry. the amalgamation of trusts and the trust areas Since the commencement of the Act, and other matters necessary to give effect to numerous examples of difficulty and inflexibility amalgamations under the River Improvement have hampered the administration of this Trust Act 1940. This is in response to local legislation. Variations from the regulations, government boundary changes and will also which are usually simple and practical and in facilitate voluntary amalgamation of trusts. The no way affect safety, are necessary to industry Bill also makes minor amendments which will but at present can only be granted by improve the administrative efficiency of the regulation. Such a procedure is ponderous Water Resources Act 1989. I commend the and involves using valuable time in Cabinet to Bill to the House. consider minor technical matters. This Debate, on motion of Mr Palaszczuk, amendment will create a more flexible adjourned. administrative process which will assist industry but also continue to be accountable and transparent through the publication of TRANSPORT OPERATIONS (MARINE exemptions and variations in the Government SAFETY) AMENDMENT BILL Gazette. Hon. V. G. JOHNSON (Gregory— The use of variations and exemptions is Minister for Transport and Main Roads) not new. The former Marine Board of (12.19 p.m.), by leave, without notice: I Queensland frequently approved applications move— for exemptions from regulatory requirements which were considered onerous in particular "That leave be granted to bring in a cases. The introduction of this Act has cast Bill for an Act to amend the Transport doubt over the legality of the design or Operations (Marine Safety) Act 1994." construction of vessels built using these Motion agreed to. exemptions. This amendment seeks to preserve those approvals of the former board. First Reading As the responsible Minister, I need to have available to me reliable advice from Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and industry sources on the issues affecting Bill, on motion of Mr Johnson, read a first time. marine safety and the efficiency of the industry. This Bill creates a Marine Board Second Reading which will give me that advice. The board will be limited to five members with a sound Hon. V. G. JOHNSON (Gregory— knowledge of maritime issues. In addition to Minister for Transport and Main Roads) performing a general advisory role both to (12.20 p.m.): I move— myself and to the department, the opportunity 30 Oct 1996 Transport Operations (Marine Safety) Amendment Bill 3663 for the department to seek advice from the a design approval certificate by the board will enable it to get an opinion from department. This will provide assurance to industry where complex issues are involved. other State authorities that the Queensland The board will have specific roles of Government is prepared to stand behind its providing advice on the referral of marine industry. It will also complement the already incidents to a board of inquiry on marine important role of the accredited designer and safety standards which establish how a person will give him or her the assurance of ready should satisfy a general safety obligation acceptance of design work throughout under the Act and on applications for Australia and overseas. A further benefit of exemptions from provisions in the Act. These this amendment is that it will provide an provisions will to some extent define the avenue for non-accredited designers to have functions of the board. This will resolve a their designs approved without having to go to problem experienced by the present Maritime an accredited designer who may also be a Industry Consultative Council, which has competitor. struggled to identify its role. The creation of These amendments also allow for the Marine Board will mean that the role of the statements to be made on a certificate of Maritime Industry Consultative Council will survey. These statements will make clear the cease. Before going on to address the other rules which have been followed in designing main issues in detail, I would like to and building the ship and will list any variations acknowledge the dedication with which the 14 which have been accepted by the department. members of the council carried out their task This once again is to assist ship owners to and to thank them for their contribution. I demonstrate to other State authorities how the might add that many of the issues addressed ship complies with national or international in this legislation were initially raised by standards. The Act presently requires that any members of the council. exemption from a provision of the Act or The commercial ship-building industry subordinate legislation can only be granted by currently directly contributes $300m to the way of a regulation made by the Governor in State economy each year. A key element in its Council. This has proved to be impractical in continuing growth is its ability to attract orders many instances because of the time required from owners in other States and overseas. But to make a regulation. It also results in Cabinet the present legislation has put that export having to deal with a range of relatively minor market in jeopardy because, as I technical marine safety matters. The time foreshadowed in 1994 during the second- involved in processing a regulation has, for reading debate on the current Act, the other example, caused the cancellation of several States will simply not accept ships built in powerboat and waterski races because Queensland unless they have the approval of applications requiring exemptions under Government at every stage of their design and controlled circumstances could not be building. The other marine authorities are processed in the available time. Besides being saying to owners that unless all the a major disruption, this has adversely affected documentation is approved by the another important industry to Queensland, Queensland marine authority, they will not that is, tourism. accept it. This situation is virtually forcing This Bill gives the chief executive of the owners looking to build their ships to go Department of Transport the power to grant a elsewhere—a very poor outcome for person or a ship an exemption from the Queensland and one which the Labor regulation. This proposed power is constrained Government failed to comprehend. in the Bill by setting strict criteria about the However efficient the accredited circumstances in which an exemption can be designers, builders and marine surveyors given. These include establishing that there are—and I have every confidence that they will be substantial compliance, or that are diligent in their inspections—the compliance is unnecessary in the particular Government must be seen to give its circumstances to achieve a safe outcome. Any endorsement to the procedures by issuing exemption granted must not adversely affect documents confirming its acceptance of the marine safety or the effectiveness and standard of the design and survey of a ship efficiency of the maritime industry. To ensure which is intended for buyers in other States or transparency and accountability, the details of overseas. This legislation will put in place a any exemption granted must be published in system in which an accredited ship designer the gazette as soon as is practicable after it will be able to submit design plans for a ship has been granted. Use of this exempting accompanied by a certificate of compliance power will greatly enhance the ability of the and, subject to audit inspection, be issued with department to respond to the particular needs 3664 Transport Operations (Marine Safety) Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 of individual operators or sectors of the results from a strong co-relation between industry. By way of illustration, it will enable the drivers' licences and speedboat drivers' chief executive to relax safety equipment licences in that about 90 per cent of the requirements for specific events subject to a holders of speedboat drivers' licences also condition that suitable rescue boats are hold a vehicle driver's licence. To enable this immediately available. The power will also orderly changeover to take place, this Bill will provide for longer-term exemptions. For extend the validity of speedboat drivers' example, it could be used to relax a detail of licences to 30 June 2002. vessel design to accommodate industry needs There is one further provision in this Bill provided clearly defined compensating which I want to bring to the attention of the features are provided. This will return to House, that is, the vesting of the power to set operators in the maritime industry the ability to speed limits in the chief executive. The Act at make innovative changes while still retaining present provides for speed limits to be set by the overall prescriptive approach which is regulation. To give effect to this the regulation generally favoured. establishes a blanket speed limit of 40 knots in Earlier I mentioned the exemption power designated smooth water areas and which was exercised by the former Marine empowers the chief executive to vary that Board of Queensland. Over many years the speed limit by placing signs. This is fine for board exercised that power both by allowing setting long-term speed limits in areas where specific variations from the regulation and also special safety considerations apply. However, by making general variations for types or there is a problem in catering for special classes of ships. These latter were published events like waterski or powerboat races where and circulated to industry as standard practice the variation to the speed limit is only instructions. Designers and builders have temporary and is subject to a variety of made extensive use of these exemptions to conditions to ensure ongoing safety. tailor new vessels to meet the requirements of Under the current legislation, this variation the owners. For example, many tourist vessels can only effectively be made by regulation. operating day trips to the Great Barrier Reef This has proved to be impractical. The need to carry fuel for glass-bottomed boats or Queensland Water Ski Association alone has helicopters which are an integral part of the events somewhere in the State almost every tourism operation. But the legislation does not weekend of the year. In addition there is a allow the carriage of such fuels on passenger- need to practise for these events. The effect carrying ships. So an exemption was granted of this restrictive procedure has been the subject to strict quantity limitations and cancellation of several events and a serious provided it was stowed in racks where any loss of sponsorship for the association brought spillage would go overboard and from where it on by the uncertainty. This amendment will could be jettisoned in the case of fire on remove the need for the device of a Statewide board. The legislation as it stands will make all general speed limit for smooth waters and will of these exemptions invalid on 1 January enable the chief executive to set speed limits 1997. This is already causing industry a great by gazette notice as required to ensure safety. deal of concern. The cost of altering these In conclusion, these very practical vessels to meet the prescriptive requirements amendments will loosen the straitjacket which of the Uniform Shipping Laws Code and the has been constraining the ship-building disruption this would cause would be ruinous industry and many ship operators since the to industry without achieving any significant Act was introduced and will remove the improvement in marine safety. So this uncertainties of legal standing and mutual legislation will preserve those original acceptability which are absolutely vital to exemptions wherever they apply to ships built ensure that Queensland retains its premier before the new regime came into effect. place in Australian ship building. These The Act provides that all speedboat amendments have resulted from strong drivers' licences issued under the former representations by industry leaders to this legislation will expire on 1 January 1997. The Government and are a demonstration that, intention is that these will be replaced by unlike the previous Labor administration, this recreational ship masters' licences. But it has Government is listening to business concerns become clear that the procedure for changing and is committed to ensuring the ongoing these documents is much more complex than strength of industry in Queensland. I was originally envisaged. The proposal now commend the Bill to the House. being finalised is to link the changeover to the Debate, on motion of Mr Elder, renewal date of drivers' licences. This link adjourned. 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3665

WEAPONS AMENDMENT BILL under a tremendous amount of pressure. It Second Reading was not a lot of fun and it certainly was not something that I would have chosen to do. As Debate resumed from 29 October (see I said yesterday, the Commonwealth p. 3613). Government handled the matter very badly Mr ELLIOTT (Cunningham) and it was a mistake. (12.33 p.m.), continuing: Yesterday, just prior Before I mention the Scrutiny of to the Adjournment debate, I started my Legislation Committee, I want to say that the speech, and I wish to continue with what I was meetings that were held allowed us to feed saying then. I was talking about the time that back to the Minister the views and concerns of has been taken up by this matter. Because the people involved. Although we finished up the Federal Government has taken up so with imperfect legislation—I have to say that if much time on this matter, people's eyes have we had a conscience vote I would not support been taken off the ball, so to speak. This all of the aspects of the legislation before the matter has been discussed for months and it House—we have finished up with legislation has been a monumental waste of time, and it which is much better than that we would have has certainly had an impact on Government in received under an ALP Government or if the Queensland. legislation had been foisted on us by the In common with me, my colleague the Commonwealth Government. member for Warwick and many other members went to a lot of trouble to attend as The difficulty we faced was whether to many meetings as they could. We took the persevere with the process and to try to turn agenda on ourselves and we set up meetings the legislation into something with which we with the people who were directly involved in could live or to have a referendum. If the shooting, the sporting shooters, in particular, Commonwealth had taken control of the and also farmers, graziers and other people process, we would have ended up with much who had recreational shooting interests. The harsher legislation which would have impacted object of attending those meetings was on our constituents to a far greater degree. It twofold: one was to listen to people, and the was a very difficult issue for us to grapple with. second was to take in information and then There was also the possibility of a referendum. feed that back to the Minister, the Honourable If a referendum was held and it was lost, then Russell Cooper, who did a fantastic job in we would find ourselves back in the same receiving, processing and trying to have boat. In the end, we took a balanced implemented the concerns of those people judgment; we felt that we would try to work on that we heard at those meetings. the legislation to bring it into some sort of format with which perhaps we could live. At one meeting I attended at Millmerran I answered questions from about a quarter to 8 While on that subject, I have to take this until something like quarter past 10. Hundreds opportunity to say that I am totally disgusted of people were at that meeting and they were with the way in which the Prime Minister voicing their concerns. I took those concerns behaved on the crimping issue. Every Police expressed at that meeting directly back to the Minister in the Commonwealth, including the Minister, as did many other members after Federal Attorney-General, agreed that meetings they had attended. It was most crimping was a sensible process. We must important that at least the Queensland remember that there will be people who will legislation reflect the views, concerns and not hand in their weapons. There is no problems that are unique to many of our question about that. However, it is ludicrous to constituents in rural Queensland and the other suggest that those people who are going to people who are involved in the shooting obey the law and bring in their weapons for industry. crimping would then go and uncrimp those weapons. For people to say that sort of thing There is no question that the introduction shows how little those people understand of of this legislation has been a very difficult the whole shooting mentality and of the process. In the entire time I have been in people involved. politics, that is, 21 years, I have never been involved in a more difficult issue. It really did Some people say that criminals will get make life very difficult. The Honourable some of those guns and uncrimp them. Minister said to me one day that the process Criminals will do anything. Handguns have was character building. He can bet his life that been banned since the 1930s, yet we still see it was. No-one was ever put under more robbery after robbery in which illegal pressure than he was during that time, and I handguns, such as sawn-off shotguns, are know that many members were similarly put being used. Why would anyone complain 3666 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 about crimping being reversible? Everything is Prime Minister said that money would be reversible. With enough money and enough available for compensation, but those people time, just about any process can be reversed. have been totally ignored, as have people That argument was a nonsense and a great who deal in firearms. They will lose business. It disgrace. It brought little credit to the Prime will be interesting to see what happens to Minister's approach to the whole issue. He was them. ego driven on this issue and he stands In the interests of giving all members an condemned for it. opportunity to speak to this Bill, I will conclude I would also like to mention what the my speech. Basically, I am most unhappy with Scrutiny of Legislation Committee, which I this legislation. However, I am happy with the chair, had to say about this Bill. I think it is job that the Minister did. I believe that important that I do put this matter on the everyone in Queensland should understand record. Firstly, it was interesting to consider the how much work the Minister did to try to Bill of Rights and the right to bear arms. My accommodate those views which National committee colleague the member for Party members fed back to him. If some Gladstone put in a separate report because people think that the suggestions of National she did not agree with the committee. Anyone Party members do not make them worthy of in the gallery who is interested in her report will support, then I suggest that they consider find it in Alert Digest No. 7. Anyone who is what some of the other parties did in respect interested in what the committee had to say of this legislation. about the matter should have a look at its report. At the back of the Alert Digest is the Mrs CUNNINGHAM (Gladstone) dissenting view of Mrs Cunningham, the (12.43 p.m.): I rise with regret to speak to this member for Gladstone, and that is worth Bill before the House. At the outset, let me noting. state clearly my opposition to the Bill. In common with previous speakers in this As to the Bill of Rights—it was important debate, I acknowledge the hard work done by for our committee members to look at that. I the Minister and his officers to endeavour to have some concerns about the legal advice ensure that as many people as possible are that was tendered. I am not at all sure that this covered by this legislation. However, this does issue really has been circumvented or not alter the fact that it is fundamentally overridden by other subsequent laws. It is fairly wrong. Community concerns are so many that fuzzy, but it did not have the support of all I can deal with only a few. members of our committee. The tragedy of this legislation is that, in The compulsory acquisition of property is great measure, it will affect the honest people an important issue. One aspect of which of this State. The miscreants of society will committee members were critical was that continue to keep their weapons, and the people will have to hand in category A and criminal element will continue to function category B weapons, that is, standard rifles unaffected. The initial introduction of the and shotguns. I have spoken with my legislation as proclaimed by the Prime colleague the Minister about this. He Minister, Mr Howard, was a reaction to the understands the problem, but unfortunately it tragedy that was Port Arthur. That day will is beyond his control. Some people might not remain in Australia's history as one of the be able to join a club, or they might not be saddest in recent times. No words could prepared to compromise their principles by adequately describe the enormity of the asking someone to let them shoot on a tragedy. However, it is clearly obvious to many particular property. In many instances those sane, thinking people that the proposed laws people are farmers, former farmers or will not prevent a future Port Arthur tragedy. It recreational shooters. They will have to hand is more than interesting that Mr Howard, the in normal shotguns, .22 calibre rifles, centre- architect of this legislation, is the first to admit fire rifles, single shot rifles or repeating rifles, that. but they will receive no compensation. The idea is that supposedly they can sell them. In this State, we have very strict gun laws When all those firearms flood onto the market, pertaining to concealable weapons, yet—as there will be no market. We have indicated this other members have said—many criminals in the Alert Digest, because we consider that have unlicensed, concealable firearms. If we to be a fundamental infringement of the rights took the step to recall every concealable of the people who own those guns. They will firearm in Queensland, again the only people lose a massive amount of money. It is a to comply would be the law-abiding citizens. travesty of justice that they have not been The criminals would not hand in even one taken into account. That annoys me. The single pistol. I contend that the logical direction 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3667 to take is to target the criminals, not the law- not therefore needlessly oppose their abiding citizens. interest . . . Rather, one should seek The Prime Minister and State to . . . modify their habits only where they Governments could well have approached the seem to create problems." Port Arthur problem in a different way. There Thirdly, the penal provisions should have were many in the community who made been increased so that anyone who suggestions. I would respectfully suggest that committed any gun offence would feel the full a response could have been made in three force of the law. For example, if anyone ways: firstly, by banning the likes of cannons, robbed a bank, a business, a service station or mortars, hand grenades, machine guns and a home, that person would not only lose that military-style semiautomatic weapons unless— weapon but his or her freedom as well. With as in the case of rural production—a real need this approach, we would have had the rather could be shown for automatic weapons, that novel situation of targeting the criminal and is, those items which people generally do not not the law-abiding citizen. need. My office has received the greatest One of the deceptions of this issue is that, number of individual letters on this issue for months after the Port Arthur tragedy, the compared to any others to date. A total of 95 Prime Minister continued the rhetoric that he per cent of the writers did not support the wanted to ban only automatic and proposals. Particularly, they were concerned semiautomatic weapons. The reality was that that their long-held belief that, as responsible proposals put to him and by him included an adults, they could provide a safe home was overwhelming inability for very many people to being significantly eroded. Two of the legally own even an air rifle. He persisted in arguments used by supporters of the continuing in these misleading statements. disarming of the community have been that Initially, the main people who reacted were rights conferred by the Bill of Rights no longer those who use automatic or semiautomatic apply and that previous State legislation weapons for work, that is, primary producers, removes the right to own a gun for self- or in their sporting pursuits. Over time, protection. however, the effect of the proposals seeped On these two issues may I say that, firstly, through, and reaction against the proposals I dispute that rights conferred by the Bill of was clear, collective and forceful. Rights in the area of weapons ownership have Secondly, a response could have been been impliedly repealed. The Bill of Rights, as made by developing a prohibited persons confirmed by the Attorney-General, is still register. This register need contain only the applicable to our State and our nation. It is names of those people who had police additionally recognised in the Imperial Acts records for violence, including domestic Application Act 1969. Secondly, the "previous violence and the like, and for people who, in gun legislation" referred to in no way the short or long term, could be considered complements the current proposals. Indeed, inappropriate. Names could be removed from to say that "it has never been lawful that self- the register once medical or other indicators protection was an approved reason for owning showed that their position or demeanour was a weapon" is nonsense, as in the past no deemed appropriate. specific reason was necessary to own a low- Whilst acknowledging his opinion on a calibre firearm. broad range of weapons matters, I refer to Gun licensing has only recently been what R. Harding said in 1981. He stated— introduced. Prior to licensing, controls existed "Shooters appear to be much the only over a very limited category of weapons, same as non-shooters with regard to their and predominantly concealable weapons from marital status and their social stability (as 1927. The majority of Queenslanders would indicated by residential habits). Overall, it continue to be of the view that responsible seems clear that gun-owners are not, in gun ownership should continue. Advertising fact, some freak segment of Australian regarding the proposed gun laws grandly society but part of its mainstream . . . stated— People from all segments of Australian "The new laws will have no effect on society are shooters . . . the existing rights people have to defend This is a very important point when themselves." desirable strategies of lawmaking are I ask: defend themselves with what? They being considered; one is dealing with may be able to use comparable force under ordinary citizens; not with a peculiar or the Criminal Code; however, if they cannot deviant segment of society. One should show a genuine reason for owning a weapon, 3668 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 they will be ineligible to be armed. Many and public sector bureaucracy that will people who have weapons for self defence feed off sports shooters and whoever would probably never use that weapon, but cooperates with it the provisions of the they gain a significant level of comfort and Bill. Secondly, it provides the excuse to security from the knowledge that, in the most pass on an endless flow of costs, charges extreme circumstances, they would be able to and fees to sportsmen, farmers and offer some resistance to intruders to their productive workers in order to feed and home and to those who would threaten their fatten the bureaucratic monster that is family members. now being established. Thirdly, it is a It is interesting to note the reaction of the recipe to destroy sports shooting in coalition to the Labor proposals for gun Queensland through useless harassment licensing. Without intending any offence by and ruinous costs and charges. Fourthly, selecting specific speakers, time constraints it is not directed at stopping crime . . . require that I do so. I will not read his whole Fifthly, it has the capacity to identify speech, but in September 1990 Mr Perrett firearm ownership in Queensland . . . stated— The licensing provisions of this Bill "I welcome this opportunity to take are horrific enough to frighten even the part in this debate and at least bring toughest of red-tape specialists. The some sanity back into it. workload that they will generate will most certainly create backlogs, bottlenecks, . . . mass armies of paper-shufflers, buck- This Bill"— passers and the frustration of long and that is, the Weapons Bill 1990— senseless delays on the minutest of things. "marks the beginning of a police State in . . . Queensland and the duplication of crazy, foolish and worthless legislation from This legislation will not work. It cannot southern States which has already failed work because it does not tackle the and which is making criminals out of problem. everybody. . . . A Stalin or Hitler could not . . . have worded it better to enable the State People will ignore this legislation as to go after the law-abiding and honest an invasion of privacy, an invasion of their citizen who has the pride to defend historic rights to bear and own firearms himself against the bullies, the thugs and and a duplication of the failures that they the criminal element that this Government know already exist overseas and so favours. interstate where crime is out of control . . . Today, by this legislation, the This Bill does not work. The Government is trying to make criminals of Parliament must go after the criminals, a third of the State's population . . . not the law-abiding citizens who happen This Bill is a recipe to disarm to own and use firearms." Queenslanders in the face of organised Those same comments were replicated by crime. many members during that debate. They . . . apply equally to the current proposed This legislation is right out of the legislation. Berlin . . . The cost of implementation is significant. This Bill is the greatest assault upon In human resource terms, from the Weapons civil liberties that this State will ever see in Regulations Section of the Police Service I am my life-time. It is a Bill aimed to harass advised that staff numbers will increase from and hound a third of the Queensland 13 to 38. Given acknowledgment that the population, without ever hurting a hair on legislation will not achieve its stated goal, that the head of a criminal or even deterring is, to prevent a repeat of Port Arthur—and, criminals from criminal acts. indeed, I have heard many comments that the proposals will not be enforceable . . . anyway—those additional officers would be There is so much wrong with this Bill better allocated to police stations currently that it is difficult to list all the faults short of struggling to give communities adequate day- using a document the length of an to-day police cover. I know that in my Encyclopaedia Britannica. Firstly, it gives electorate the situation at Boyne/Tannum and, the excuse to build a huge, useless police indeed, in Gladstone City is critical. 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3669

During the Estimates committee security. The proposal includes a National deliberations, we were advised that at that Register of Firearms, which will include time no firm assurances had been given by information pertaining to each licensed firearm the Federal Government, who are the linked to the person's firearm licence. That instigators of this legislation, that they will fully licence will at least include names and some fund the implementation of the legislation. A identifying information. The register will be a levy has been placed on all taxpayers of document of concern to anyone with a Australia to establish a fund for the buyback of weapon. Who will be able to access the banned weapons. Even today many people information? How secure is the system to remain unaware that if they cannot establish hackers or other unauthorised computer genuine reasons for keeping even their experts? Who will have legal access to the humble .22, they must relinquish ownership. information? What future use could or would They will not be compensated. They must the list be put to? The questions go on. place the weapon on an already saturated People across this State have responded market or hand it in to the police. Anecdotal to these proposals in many ways. Huge information has been received that in South amounts of mail and faxes have been sent; Australia they are already proposing to reduce public meetings have been held; petitions the period of amnesty and the levels of have been lodged; repeated requests have compensation for listed weapons. One been made for a referendum; demonstrations wonders where it will finish. have been held; calls have been made for On 17 July 1996, the Minister for Police controls on violence and pornography on stated— television and in movies; and a call has been "Prime Minister John Howard is for Parliament to allow a conscience vote. enjoying a position of all care and no What is the result? It is a piece of legislation, responsibility in relation to proposed new albeit much more accommodating than firearms laws. originally proposed, that will impose new, extensive, intrusive and divisive obligations. 'Mr Howard is being lauded as the Additionally, the regulations, yet to be moral champion in the push for national published, have further potential to impose uniformity in much tighter firearms significant demands on those people who are legislation but he does not have to deal able to comply with this legislation as far as with any of the practical administrative initial eligibility. and financial problems associated with Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.30 p.m. those laws,' Mr. Cooper said. Mrs CUNNINGHAM: In the Gladstone 'The fact is that the States, who are area, there were a number of meetings. I also being branded as recalcitrant, are the called a public meeting, but only after the ones wrestling with those administrative legislation had been published. The format of and financial problems. that meeting included a one-hour walk through However, while Mr Howard is insistent the legislation to ensure that everyone at that that the May 10 resolutions be reflected meeting had up-to-date information about the down to the smallest detail in new legislation, its intent, its implications and the legislation, he is not prepared to give the unknowns. All but one person at that meeting States even one dollar towards ensuring were opposed to the legislation. I add that that legislation can be properly although some people who attended that administered or enforced.'" meeting were sporting shooters, many of them Although that situation may have relaxed were citizens of the electorate who attended in small measure, the reality as revealed for no other reason than a concern about the during Estimates hearings is that full funding proposed erosion of their rights through this for the measures has not been given and legislation. should the State be required to finance the On Saturday, 29 June, Elizabeth implementation, costs are not clearly known Meryment reported the following— nor the source of necessary funding identified. "State Police Minister Russell Cooper Not only immediate costs should be taken into yesterday branded the Federal account; ongoing financial commitment to Government's proposed gun laws maintain a system which at its outset will not unworkable, despite minor concessions to be efficient or effective must be seen as farmers." money wasted. Elizabeth Meryment went on to report Minister Yet another area of the proposal Cooper as saying that any Government which associated with the costs issue is one of could not make "sensible and workable gun 3670 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 laws was in danger of losing its credibility". I of our very good mayor up there, Barbara can only agree with that statement. Wildin, I was able to obtain the use of the civic Governments have the responsibility to bring centre. Although the meeting was held on a in practical, workable, sensible and just Monday morning at short notice, and therefore legislation. Unfortunately, this legislation fulfils a lot of people were at work, over 350 people none of those criteria. attended. We all deplore the deaths that occurred at It was a very well behaved, very well run Port Arthur. However, it is worth mentioning meeting. Of course, from that meeting I that some 12,000 people have died of received every possible view, which I will not smoking-related causes; this year alone, there go through now. However, every single one of would have possibly been 20,000 abortions; those views was passed on to the Police many people die of alcohol-related causes; Minister. That meeting provided an opportunity and hundreds of Australians die on our roads. for those people to put their views. Sadly, I ask: where has there been public outcry or appropriate Government action on Within my electorate, there has been a lot those issues? They command little or no of give and take on this whole issue. attention. Unfortunately, in relation to some people it has not been the most pleasant affair. I made it The issue of gun control is complex. Other very clear that I would do my best for them. members in their contributions have dealt with Hundreds and hundreds of representations other facets of the proposal. Objections to the from people in my electorate have been made proposals have come from all quarters and at my office, and they have all been passed from a mix of socioeconomic groups. Even on to the appropriate people. My office also though this Bill is the most divisive to come held all the latest information from the Minister before the House in recent times, members plus the amending Bill. It was quite amazing. I will not be afforded a conscience vote. That in think I ended up with four boxes of copies of itself is a tragedy. I reiterate that the legislation the Bill at my home. Within minutes, they were will not work. Only honest people will even all gone. Everybody was waiting for a copy. So think of complying with it. Our role as members that was the impact that this issue has had on is to represent our community on matters the electorate of Keppel. which build our community and which will enhance quality of life. However, I regret that I need to say simply to those people who in representing the people of our State we are still offering all sorts of threats to me, propose to so markedly reduce their freedoms. whether they be about forming some other I continue in my opposition to the Bill. party to oppose me at the next election or whatever, that I can look them all squarely in Hon. V. P. LESTER (Keppel) the eye and say that I have done my very best (2.33 p.m.): Much of what I was going to say for them. Many of those people have said that has been covered and there is no point in we should have had a referendum. All I can going over it all again except to say that, in say to those people is that I have visited many instances, I agree with what has been Melbourne, Sydney and various other capital said. cities in relation to other activities that I am When this whole issue arose, one of my involved in through this Parliament and, in first chores was to call a public meeting within those cities, I did a number of random street the electorate of Keppel to ascertain the views surveys and found out that very few people of the people. Initially, that particular meeting were pro-guns. So without doubt a referendum was simply going to be a morning drop-in at would have been carried in favour of those the office where people could come in, have a people who wanted guns banned altogether. cup of tea and some biscuits, and tell us what The big problem with a referendum is they thought about the issue. that, if we had agreed to that course, the Mrs Wilson: Scones? Federal Government would have written the Mr LESTER: Yes, scones as well. From questions and there would have been very there, I found that the interest was enormous. little leeway; whereas through the patience of At the time, the telephones became the Minister—and he did try very hard and I absolutely jammed. So I figured that I was believe that we should all take our caps off going to get more than people just dropping in and congratulate him on his effort; it was not at random and decided that I would an easy thing to do because there are some endeavour to obtain the use of the RSL hall in very hard-headed people on all sides of the Yeppoon. I then found out that that hall could debate—we have achieved as best we could not accommodate all the people who wanted for every single person. We have tried to cater to come to the meeting. With the cooperation for the people on the land; we have 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3671 endeavoured to cater for the people who are really to blame for a lot of what has happened. in gun clubs; we have endeavoured to cater At the public meeting that I held in my for sporting shooters and, as far as possible, electorate of Keppel, I made it very clear that if we have endeavoured to allow people to own anybody misbehaved the meeting would a gun. There is no way that today, had there cease immediately. We held a very been a referendum, we would have had responsible meeting at which not one person legislation at least as good as this Bill. It is all got out of hand. If anyone had got out of very well for some people to make all sorts of hand, that person would have been lynched threats to me or whatever, but if they were in because the people really wanted to find my place, they could not have done any solutions to the problem. I know that the better. They are still carrying on about what Minister was very impressed with the conduct they are going to do at the next election. I of that meeting and, indeed, the solutions that have done my best and I cannot do any more. were put forward. He has endeavoured to I believe that the Government has done its address them as best he can. I hope and pray best and it cannot do any more. that there are no massacres in the future, but I would like to think also that we could we will have to wait and see. look at where the real problems lie in this Ms SPENCE (Mount Gravatt) issue. Some of the real problems lie in the (2.42 p.m.): It gives me great pleasure to psychiatric area. People are being taken out of support the weapons legislation because, institutions and placed among the public. I am unlike many members of this House, I believe not saying that that should not be done. that legislation such as this does have the However, there is really not enough desired effect of limiting the number of guns in backup—and I do not think that there ever will our society. I also believe that in limiting guns be, no matter what Government is in we will ultimately save lives. power—to support those people. They have a down time, and that is when things can go I congratulate the Police Minister, the wrong. Unfortunately, that does not happen Government and the Opposition on the only to people who have psychiatric problems; introduction of this legislation today and the it can happen to anybody at any time. support for it. I recognise that all political Some of the people who are so keen to parties have struggled to convince their get rid of all guns seem to forget that only members that new, tougher weapons about 17 per cent of people killed in a violent legislation should be introduced in this State. act are in fact killed with guns. Most are killed I remember speaking on the 1990 with knives, instruments or some other force, weapons legislation introduced by the Labor which puts another angle on the debate. Government. At that time, many in the Ultimately, I am not convinced that this community felt that the Government went too legislation will solve all of the problems. far in toughening gun laws. On that occasion, Unfortunately, I do not believe that it will mean Liberal and National Party members opposed that massacres will never occur in the future, the Bill. They believed that the Government although I would be delighted if it did. All of my had made conditions of gun ownership too constituents know what I have done. I have stringent. In her speech earlier today, the released many press statements on the issue, member for Gladstone quoted parts of that and I repeat that I have done the best that I debate from Hansard. Many members in this can. I have put to the Government every House presented vigorous, sometimes possible argument, and under the hysterical reasoning as to why we should not circumstances the Government, with the have tougher gun legislation. bipartisan support of all parties, has done the That we are here today introducing these best that it can under very difficult more stringent gun laws is testimony to the circumstances. fact that Australians have progressed a long One cannot walk away from a massacre way in their attitudes towards guns and gun such as that which occurred at Port Arthur. ownership. Members who originally opposed Some action must be taken. Some of the pro- tough gun legislation in 1990 have also come gun lobbyists have only themselves to blame a long way. I am pleased to hear members on for what has happened. I say "some" because both sides of the House recognise that a many of them have acted very responsibly. referendum on this issue would have meant The genuine pro-gun lobbyists are concerned that the Australian people, and indeed the about what happened at Gympie. It is Queensland people, would have supported comments by people such as Mr McNiven this type of legislation and that is why we are about blood in the streets and so on that are all supporting it today. 3672 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996

For a long time our society has been year more than 400 to 500 of us shoot experiencing considerable pain because of ourselves dead. By comparison, during the guns. Many of us have ignored this pain, entire Vietnam War 504 Australians were perhaps because we have not experienced it; killed. we have not been touched by it. In the wake It is a disturbing trend that guns are the of the Port Arthur tragedy, grieving Australia preferred method of suicide among boys and was touched by this pain. Grieving Australia young men and that gun suicides are has brought us to this position today, where increasing among this group. Numerous we will finally start to prevent the pain caused statistics have demonstrated a direct by guns. It shows our maturity as a nation that relationship between the rates of gun Australians could effect something positive out ownership and the rates of suicides by guns. of such a shocking, senseless and shameful Guns are killing people. But will fewer guns tragedy as Port Arthur; a maturity where mean fewer suicides? All the indicators Australians could final agree that enough is suggest that it will. enough, that guns kill, that the cost of obtaining a gun is low but the social cost is Suicide by gun is much more prevalent in high, and that gun ownership must be rural areas where there is a higher rate of gun uniformly restricted at a national level. ownership and a greater variety of guns per household than in suburban Australia. In I acknowledge the crucial part played in Queensland and Tasmania, the gun laws this historic decision by Prime Minister Howard have been more relaxed and Queensland and and Opposition Leader Beazley. Without their Tasmania have the highest suicide rate by leadership in the gun law reform process, we guns. These facts undoubtedly confirm that would not be at this point today. Throughout greater access to guns means more deaths by the past decade we have had numerous guns. These facts strongly endorse that more reports, committees and inquiries into violence stringent legislation is warranted and that in this country which have made numerous restrictions on gun ownership will save lives. recommendations. I recently read the report compiled by the National Committee on Suicide should be a major concern in the Violence. It is pleasing to note that this decisions on gun control. Suicides are rarely legislation is along the lines of the committee's reported in the media and the families are recommendations, which call for strong rarely seen on TV, but suicide is bringing huge measures to deal with gun injuries and social costs to Australia. The inescapable facts fatalities. are that guns are used in more suicide attempts and guns are more lethal. For every As shadow Minister for Women, I am female that contemplates suicide, about 100 particularly interested in the relationship attempt it. For every male that contemplates between guns and women in this State and I suicide, about 15 attempt it. Males intend to speak about that today. However, I contemplate suicide more because they am also concerned about some of the other choose more lethal methods of suicide. They wide social costs brought about by guns, choose guns. Among common methods of particularly in relation to suicide. Some attempting suicide, a gun is clearly and statistics about deaths from firearms in certainly most likely to prove fatal. Queensland vividly illustrate some of these social costs. Many people believe that if guns were not In 1994, 135 deaths were caused by available, those 400 to 500 people who would firearms registered in Queensland. Seven of otherwise put a bullet into themselves will take these were accidents, 13 were homicides, two their lives in another way. However, all the were undetermined as to whether accidentally evidence suggests that this is not the case. Of or purposefully inflicted and a shocking 113 the estimated 100,000 people who attempt were suicides. Nearly 95 per cent of those who suicide in Australia each year, just over 2,000 died were males. The Queensland total of 135 actually commit suicide. What makes a was just over 35 per cent of the Australian difference between a suicide and a suicide total. This proportion is significantly greater attempt? It is often the method used. than the Queensland mean resident Dr Michael Dudley, a lecturer in psychiatry population of around 18 per cent. While guns at the University of New South Wales who has are used in about a quarter of suicide studied youth suicide in relation to firearms, attempts, sadly it is all too clear that the vast suggests that most suicide prevention majority of gun deaths in Queensland—about programs head off suicide attempts by 80 per cent—are actually a result of suicide. It preventing people from reaching a crisis point. is all too apparent that guns are killing males But he suggests that gun control may have a for the purpose of suicide. Nationally each role in providing protection further down the 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3673 track in preventing those attempts that do of death in 42 per cent of spouse murders and occur from turning into suicide. The chances of 35 per cent of general homicides. survival are slim for attempters of suicide with In common with suicide, firearm-related access to guns. homicides between partners are higher in rural If through this Weapons Bill we can areas, probably reflecting the relative ease of prevent a repetition of some of the terrible accessibility to these types of weapons in the suicide statistics, it will have more than served country. While other weapons are obviously its purpose. As citizens in Australia, we enjoy also frequently used in domestic violence, it is many individual rights, but we have the frightening to note that a study of Victorian collective right to live in a safe, secure society colonial records by the Family Court of protected where possible from violence, Australia identified that 75 per cent of gun- aggression and oppression. Unfortunately, related spousal murderers were premeditated, many women do not enjoy this right. The compared with only 22 per cent of deaths by firearms that people buy are often used in knives and 11 per cent from assault. Firearms scenes of domestic violence throughout the are involved in domestic violence simply by State and nation, and women, one of the their presence in the homes of victims of most vulnerable groups in society, are often domestic violence. the victims of violence. A domestic violence phone-in conducted Most of us dream of a reality in which our in Queensland in 1988 revealed that guns are homes are safe havens from the dangers of used to threaten, dominate and control victims the world. In reality, they often are not. The of domestic violence. Imagine how the mere reality is that the family home is the breeding presence of a firearm in a house could pose a ground of violence in Australia. Tight gun threat to the victim. Imagine how the mere control needs to be instituted not only to keep presence of a firearm in the home would very guns out of the hands of criminals but also to much increase the fear in which the victims of protect family members, who are most domestic violence live. The ownership of a frequently the victims of murders involving firearm indicates the intent to kill. Sport is the firearms. One quarter of all murder victims are excuse, but the capacity to kill is the main killed by a family member with firearms. purpose of a firearm. During the period between June 1995 It seems a common question to ask: why and April 1996, domestic homicides do abused women not leave their husbands? accounted for the deaths of 18 people out of Some try, but murders of estranged wives are a total of 53 homicides—an average of two another common occurrence. Most are people per month in Queensland. Guns, planned carefully in advance and women are usually a rifle or a shotgun, are used in four often tricked in a rendezvous at which they are out of 10 domestic killings. The reality is that killed. Often women who have been family homes are often battlegrounds where, threatened by their partner with a firearm are for some, violence and abuse are ways of life too fearful to leave their relationship for that and children grow up believing bloodshed and very reason. Divorce and distance are not aggression are a normal way of life. sufficient protection for the determined Unfortunately, in some cases these children pursuer. For many battered women, flight is will either replicate the violence in their adult not an alternative. Many are physically lives or become victims to it. This tragic picture isolated, have lost their self-esteem and face is what we know as domestic violence. More an uncertain future. Often, the battered and tragically, the extreme end of this terrifying bruised wife faces a choice between a life of continuum is killing. continuing violence or a life of ongoing relative In the period between 1980 and 1991, poverty. spouse murder accounted for about 23 per Violence in Queensland homes is a grim cent of Queensland homicides. Detailed reality, often masked by fear and shame. The research has revealed that women are more incidents range from occasional slaps to a likely to be killed by a partner than by anyone chronic situation in which women and children else. Domestic homicide is not usually a are assaulted periodically with hands, fists, spontaneous act of violence. Domestic belts, irons, chairs, knives and guns. Too homicide is usually preceded by a history of often, such incidents are not intercepted domestic violence. What is important in the before a tragedy occurs. The tougher gun context of this new weapons legislation is that legislation proposed in this Bill today is not the firearms are implicated to a greater extent in panacea to prevent domestic violence and domestic killings than in homicide generally. In suicide, but it will prevent those people subject Queensland, gunshot wounds are the cause to domestic violence orders from obtaining a 3674 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 gun licence. It will also enable police to revoke and society we operate within a system in guns and gun licenses. However, the which drivers must be licensed, a system legislation will serve its purpose if we prevent which can and does revoke those licenses if any of the horrific statistics and high social we abuse the regulations and put others at costs of domestic violence. risk. In the interests of public safety, most of Until we can mend all those aspects of us accept that driving restrictions are placed society which produce domestic violence in the on us, and so we should accept restrictions on first instance, we must stop the immediate gun ownership. bleeding. We need to protect women and Just as the vast majority of drivers are children who will otherwise become the victims responsible, the vast majority of Australian gun of domestic violence. We should certainly look owners are responsible individuals who do not to address the underlying problems. Let us pose a threat to themselves or their fellow examine our tolerance of violence as a citizens. With this new legislation, responsible society, whether on the street, in the home or citizens with a legitimate reason to possess on the football field. Let us examine the way guns will inevitably face some inconvenience we bring up our sons and daughters. Let us in obtaining them. However, responsible examine the support systems designed to citizens will realise that that is not an excessive help those with emotional, physical and price to pay for increased public safety. psychological problems. In the meantime, the I congratulate all the politicians in this balance can be addressed by legislation which State on their resolve to introduce this is both humane and effective. legislation. This legislation will not diminish the It is not the right of every person to own or civil liberties of Queenslanders but will bear guns. It is a cliche perhaps, but gun enhance the civil liberties of those who would ownership is not a right, it is a privilege. A gun have been killed in horrifying domestic is potentially a lethal weapon. It is an murders around this State. This legislation will instrument of war. It is an instrument of much reduce homicide generally and reduce the pain, trauma and death amongst women, incidence of suicide. I am not so hopeful as to men and children. Firearms are sometimes believe that this legislation will prevent all used to shoot inanimate objects in sport, but deaths by guns, but I believe there is a reason they were developed for no other purpose to hope that lives can be saved. than to intentionally kill or injure living beings. I ask honourable members to remember Firearms exist for the purpose of launching a that gun-related deaths and injuries are not projectile capable of striking with maximum always committed by professional criminals; force and accuracy a target beyond the that the huge social costs are more likely to be physical reach of the shooter. the result of domestic violence or suicide. I Those who would argue that guns should have faith that in introducing this new, more be freely available argue that it is people who stringent weapons legislation we will reduce kill, not guns—it is the intent, not the means. domestic homicide, suicide and massacres, That is correct. However, in a situation of such as that at Port Arthur. I believe this violence, the likelihood of a fatality is greatly legislation will ultimately save lives and reduce reduced if a gun is not present. The argument the enormous pain and social costs of gun- of self-defence has very little going for it. The related deaths. I support the Bill. armed victim produces a more deadly Mr MALONE (Mirani) (3 p.m.): I rise to attacker. In a famous cartoon, R. Cobb speak briefly on the Weapons Amendment expresses it perfectly. He says, "Anger plus fist Bill. In common with other members on this equals bloody nose. Anger plus gun equals side of the House, I have some reservations tragedy." about the Bill. Gun ownership has nothing to do with the Mr Dollin: Some on this side, too. expression or suppression of individuality. In fact, for the very acts of suppression we regard Mr MALONE: I imagine that that applies as extreme—that is, murder, assault and to both sides of the House. suicide—guns are the instruments most likely I want to thank very much and to be used to carry them out. In the hands of congratulate the Minister for Police on bringing the wrong people with the wrong reasons, forward the legislation. Along with many guns are dangerous instruments. For the others, I know the heartbreak and the difficult safety and good of society as a whole, they times that the Minister faced in framing the must be regulated. Cars are potentially legislation and working through the dangerous instruments, and driving a car is a amendments to the Act to enable us to bring privilege, not a right. For the good of ourselves before the House some sensible form of 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3675 legislation which conforms to a reasonable achieve. That was unfortunate. I suppose it is degree with the national resolutions. I thank human frailty that these sorts of things are also the residents of my electorate for the misrepresented and blown out of all understanding way in which they have come proportion. The issue is a difficult one, and it to grips with the intent of the legislation and was made even more difficult by the ideas that worked with me to convey to the Minister their these people were fostering throughout the feelings on this issue. community and spreading right throughout the I want to support the comments of nation. members from both sides of the House and The heavy-handed attitude of the Prime speak about the difficulties that we all have in Minister also did not help matters. As my coming to grips with this legislation. The gun colleagues have explained, he was totally was not to blame for the events at Port Arthur. opposed to crimping and some other Martin Bryant, the police, the community, the measures that we, as responsible gun owners, relevant doctors and the whole system were to thought may have contributed to a reasonable blame for what occurred at Port Arthur. If we debate and ensured that the legislation realise that fact and keep it in the back of our ultimately had a reasonable impact. To allow minds—— such measures would have minimised the cost Mr McElligott: What harm would he of the buyback, and it would have proven to have done without the gun? the general public that at least some allowance had been made for the legitimate Mr MALONE: The fact remains that use of guns in the right sort of atmosphere. Martin Bryant was identified as a person who was in a difficult circumstance. Had there been To sum up the legislation—the realisation a system in place to ensure that people in that has to be that basically this is not circumstance did not have access to a Queensland's legislation; it is legislation that gun—and I am referring to the prohibited has been forced on us by the Prime Minister. persons register, which was not available in It impacts very severely on law-abiding citizens Tasmania at that time—the police, the in varying degrees simply because of the community and the relevant doctors may have insistence of John Howard. But I strongly been able to work with that information, and believe—and I think most of my colleagues the catastrophe at Port Arthur may never have would agree with this—that it is absolutely come about. When we talk about preventing imperative that a national prohibited persons tragic events such as this one, there are many register be set up as quickly as possible, with issues to address besides amendments to the all the necessary constraints and all the Weapons Act. legislative strength that is needed to make sure that it works. I believe this is the only way There are many hundreds of thousands that gun ownership can be targeted at of lawful gun owners in Australia who would responsible citizens and the only way that the never contemplate any misuse of their onerous conditions can be lifted from those weapons. I say that very sincerely, because I people. know quite a number of them—myself included—who would never, ever contemplate I have discovered a couple of using a gun to hurt another human being. The disadvantaged groups in my community, and I unfortunate aspect is that there is a small suppose that is reflected right across minority of gun owners who, no matter Queensland and possibly even across whether we legislate until our faces are blue, Australia. I speak of the military rifle clubs will never accept legislation, will never conform throughout Queensland. I have dealt with to legislation and will always be outside the members of the club in Mackay, and I found law. In reality, legislating to try to cover people them to be very responsible people. They now who will not conform with the law is a wasted will be restricted to repeater-style military effort. weapons. Some of those people have actually One unfortunate feature of the debate shot in national and international competitions which has made it even more difficult was the and have won trophies at the very highest outspoken minority—who in some cases were level. They enjoy their sport. They are very legitimate gun owners and will always be responsible people. It really is a shame that legitimate gun owners—who became very we cannot in some way recognise the very emotional about the issue and talked of blood enjoyable sport in which these people participate. in the streets and those sorts of things. Such talk made it very difficult for level-minded and The other group in the community that is responsible people in the community to come being disadvantaged are those people, be to grips with what the legislation was trying to they retired farmers or people who have just 3676 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 moved to town or actually live in town, who examine the resolutions put before the Police have a .22 or some similar-style rifle that they Ministers and to look at the Weapons Act to have held for a long period and who do not see which matters they suggested we go really feel like going out and getting forward with. permission from a land-holder to shoot on their I would like to read some of the property or even joining a gun club, for that recommendations that were made and I would matter. Under this Act, those people will be particularly read from the introduction, which unable to hold that gun. I really believe that states— that is an imposition on those people. They may not ever use their gun—elderly people in "The report has been drafted to particular probably do not even know where it reflect the basic principles of the is—but the fact that they will have to hand it in Resolutions of the Australian Police is going to be a difficult decision for them to Ministers' Conference, 10 May 1996, make. without overly impacting upon current lawful firearm ownership and use. In my electorate, I received hundreds of phone calls, probably thousands of faxes and In drafting the submission the hundreds of letters. This was the most difficult Committee took into consideration, issue I have had to deal with for a long period. submissions from individuals, shooting The other aspect that I had to deal with was associations and other organisations. The the fact that, being a Government member views expressed in this submission have and a National Party member, I was receiving varied greatly. However, it is fair to say calls from people in the electorates around that the vast majority of the submission mine. I made a decision to call together a supports the view that: committee. The people on the committee 'Fit and proper persons should have were not particularly from my electorate but reasonable opportunity to pursue were from the region. They have a long history responsible shooting practices.' " of involvement in rifle clubs and administration That was the underlying theme of the in those areas. I requested them to look at the submission that we sent to Russell Cooper. proposed legislation and come up with some The introduction continues— recommendations. "This Committee is of the opinion I want to name those people. Howard that the current Queensland 'Weapons Zelenka has been involved in the competitive Act 1990', and 'Weapons Regulation shooting of service rifles. He has been 1991' currently contain legislation which shooting at a very high level for a long period. does enable the State Government to Peter Eyre has 19 years' experience in law. He meet most of the requirements of the is a non-gun owner but has a very strong Police Ministers' resolutions. interest in the issue of gun ownership. Geoff Gibson was a State pistol champion, State We are also of the opinion that coaching director from 1981 to 1985, member violence within the community cannot be of the Commonwealth Games Queensland reduced by the implementation of strict training squad, member of the Queensland firearm controls alone. pistol team from 1979 to 1985 and 1989 to Attention has been given to a wide 1993, member of the north Queensland rifle range of social issues within the team, a pistol shooter and member of the community which include: State executive for 10 years, so he has a long Educating the general public about history in that field. Rod Williams competed in safe firearm practices and the target shooting sports, including rifle and implications of firearms misuse. shotgun, and was a representative in State and national teams. Kingsley Honan is a gun Implementation of better mental and ammunition retailer. Peter Breuer is the health care. chairman of the Sarina and District Introduction and implementation of Neighbourhood Watch. Sib Torrisi is a strong harsh penalties for criminal misuse of advocate on rural issues. Charlie McLennan is firearms. the Deputy Chair of the Mackay Cane . . . Protection and Productivity Board. Ted Dey is the Branch President of the Sporting Shooters Detailed review of existing censorship Association. Jim Fredrickson is the chairperson laws and classifications, especially in and spokesman of the Mackay and District regard to violent videos, arcade video Military Museum Association. I pulled those machines and personal video people together to form a committee to games." 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3677

Not many members have raised that point in problem requires a sound multi-pronged this debate, but the review of censorship laws response covering a wide range of social, should be high on the agenda of health and economic issues. Governments. The committee also mentioned Any new laws which are introduced the need for community education for suicide will need to be, and seen to be, prevention. reasonable, fair, cost effective, workable I would like to highlight some of the and above all deliver a real and recommendations in that report, which measurable decrease of violence within particularly highlights the prohibited persons the community." register. The recommendations state— I would like to thank the members of the "That a Prohibited Persons Register committee who worked on this report for their be implemented immediately and that recommendations. The committee met on a licensed firearm dealers be given direct number of occasions and all members access to this system to enable checks to participated to the extreme. They drew up their be conducted prior to transactions submission and then sent it to the Police involving the sale of firearms and Minister, and I believe that amendments to ammunition." the Weapons Act reflect some of the attitudes The recommendations also state that personal that were seen in that submission. I would protection be recognised as a legitimate particularly like to thank all members of that reason for owning a firearm. Even though, committee for their cooperation. because of the Police Ministers' resolutions, In conclusion, I would like to say that that was not able to be introduced by the trying to implement changes to the Weapons Minister in our legislation, I still believe that Act has been a very difficult task for the there is some justification for that reason. National Party. Under the circumstances and Under the heading "Semi-Automatic Firearms the conditions that prevailed, Russell Cooper and Pump-Action Shotguns", the has made excellent headway in this regard. I recommendations continue— would like to thank him for the way in which he "That a system be implemented has done his job. I support the Bill. whereby the above types of firearms are Mr ARDILL (Archerfield) (3.16 p.m.): restricted to people with a proven record Firstly, let me say that I have no such of safe firearm ownership, such as bona baggage to carry as the Minister for Police and fide members of rifle clubs, certain bona the Minister for Primary Industries, who are fide collectors, shooters engaged in feral both present in the Chamber. They stridently pest control." opposed the original gun control legislation I am pleased that that recommendation has that was introduced in this House. I supported been addressed in the legislation. The that legislation wholeheartedly, and I still do, recommendations continue— but I cannot give unqualified support to the present legislation that we are discussing. I "It is envisaged that a system similar believe that it is overkill and it is inadequate in to that currently used for the control of many ways. As a person who has shot the hand guns could be utilised." odd feral pig and certainly a large number of That pertains particularly to the semiautomatic rabbits—— centre-fire rifles. With that recommendation, Mr J. H. Sullivan: That's brutal. maybe military shooting clubs could become Mr ARDILL: It is very brutal—I can see licensed. The recommendations continue— both sides of the argument. Despite "That semi-automatic rimfire riles, misgivings about this legislation in general, with a magazine capacity no greater than clearly we must support it for seven very good 10 rounds, and semi-automatic and reasons. The seven reasons are: firstly, the pump-action shotguns with a magazine need for uniform gun laws, which I totally capacity no greater than five rounds, be support. We had very good weapons laws in exempt from the extremely strict controls this State but other States did not follow and, as outlined in paragraph (A)." in the interests of the safety of all citizens, it is Under the regulations perhaps we can work necessary that there be uniform gun laws for around that. the whole of Australia. Secondly, this is the first time that the Liberal Party has indicated Under the heading "Conclusion", the any interest in gun regulations of any kind and recommendations state— it is only as a knee-jerk reaction to the Port "Firearm control alone will not reduce Arthur massacre that this has occurred. violence within the community. This Thirdly, if this opportunity is not seized, the 3678 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996

Liberals will melt away. Fourthly, there are There is inadequate provision for sporting many people who should not own a gun of guns to be kept in magazines. There is an any kind. Fifthly, there are very good reasons inadequate balance of people who may obtain why semiautomatics should be restricted and a licence to hold a gun. For instance, graziers heavy anti-personnel guns should be totally and large property owners are okay; but prohibited, except within certain defined areas. country town dwellers who may want to Sixthly, the Federal Labor Party wisely or indulge in their sport are out of luck unless unwisely for those reasons quoted has they have written agreement from a property guaranteed support to legislation sight owner. A citizen who lives in Quilpie, unseen. Seventhly, and most convincingly, the Einasleigh or Dingo cannot own a gun unless majority of people in Australia want this he or she has written agreement from a legislation passed at this point in time. I property owner to shoot on that individual believe we have no choice but to support the property. legislation. One of the worst inadequacies of the There is another reason which I might legislation is that the Medicare levy will be mention, that is, the total support for the used as funding for the buyback scheme. That legislation from my wife. She believes that is an inadequate way for the Federal anyone who needs a gun must suffer from Government to fund this problem. The personal inadequacy. That is her opinion as Medicare levy should not be milked for this given to me. Of course, I cannot accept that. I purpose. It is inevitable that it is going to be believe that I was doing a good job ridding used this year, but I believe that should be the bush areas of feral pigs and rabbits and I have end of it. The Medicare levy is vitally needed, seen nothing to change my opinion. but it is presently inadequate to service our health schemes and our public hospitals. All Some criticism has been expressed that it funding from Medicare must be returned has taken a long time for the Queensland immediately to the purpose for which it was set Parliament to deal with this Bill. However, on up. 24 July, the Minister for Police said—I was not in the Chamber at the time; I was As I said, I find that I have to support the overseas—that this issue would be dealt with Bill. However, I believe that greater emphasis after the Budget to allow sufficient public should be placed on education to obtain discussion. There has certainly been that. compliance and to prevent unfair and unjust However, I am not quite sure whether we have treatment of many law-abiding citizens who will received the views of a true cross-section of be placed outside the law by this new the Australian population in the legislation. They must be educated and representations that we have received from persuaded to comply with the new law. people in the community. Much of it has been Mr GRICE (Broadwater) (3.24 p.m.): Just nonsensical stuff about the Bill of Rights and after that dreadful day at Port Arthur, and just about the fact that everyone—particularly after the knee-jerk reaction by the Prime women—is in danger if the ordinary citizen is Minister, when I said that I felt that he was able to have a gun. I do not believe that either attempting to create legislation on the way side of that argument contributed a lot to the home from a funeral, we were asked by the debate. The Minister was correct in leaving the Minister to go to meetings, talk to the people matter open to allow proper discussion. and feed back the information. I did that in my There are many flaws in the legislation. electorate and on the rest of the coast. I went Firstly, there will be inadequate compensation to the pro-gun rallies and meetings and was from the Federal Government for the criticised by the anti-gun people. I went to the procedures that will take place. There is anti-gun rallies and meetings and was inadequate Federal funding for compensation criticised by the pro-gun people. Then I set out for people who must surrender their guns on a to conduct a telephone poll in my electorate. depreciating market. There is little chance that Simple questions were asked. people will get a fair price for the guns that Mr Dollin: Unreliable. they hand in when there is no open market Mr GRICE: The member says that was remaining for guns. There is inadequate unreliable. He has not heard the results. The provision for exclusions for historical interests. poll was conducted between 7 June and 11 For instance, the Moreton Bay Regiment, July across 1,000 of the 23,000 people in the which puts on historical pageants from time to Broadwater electorate. The times of the calls time, has had problems with this. I believe that varied so that we did not catch only one type the Minister has considered this, but I still do of person, that is, those who are at home not know what the answer will be. during the day. The ages of the people 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3679 ranged from 18 to 80. I believe that these national motor racing titles and doing probably statistics tell a very interesting story. 40 race meetings or more a year, that took up The first question was: "Do you think all all of my weekends and most of my weeks semiautomatic and automatic military-style because I was travelling all over Australia. firearms should be banned?" Eighteen per When I wanted some relaxation, I went pistol cent said "No" and 79 per cent said "Yes". In shooting. I found that, on a Wednesday answer to the question, "Do you believe that afternoon, I could go out to the Blacktown there are any type of firearms that should range. There would be almost no-one there, remain legal?" 15 per cent said "No" and 78 and I could shoot quietly and in a very relaxed per cent—almost exactly the same percentage fashion—which is the way that one must as in the first question—said "Yes". In answer shoot. I relaxed for the afternoon. That was to the question, "Do you think it should remain the relaxation that I had from my pretty hectic legal for a householder to use a firearm to lifestyle. I have been associated with firearms protect his or her family?" 30 per cent said and clubs ever since, and I plan to continue "No" and 63 per cent said "Yes". In answer to that. the question, "Do you believe that the People who sometimes portray those who proposed gun laws will assist in the prevention use firearms—whether it be for hunting, target of future massacres involving firearms?" 41 practice or shooting—as aggressive, per cent said "No" and 49 per cent said "Yes". hypertensive, nervous-type people do not In answer to the question, "Do you believe really understand what it is all about, and they that gun owners are being discriminated show their ignorance. I have personally against by the proposed gun laws?" 60 per experienced shooting to be a very relaxing cent said "No" and 34 per cent said "Yes". In pastime, and it will remain as such for me. answer to the question, "Do you believe that Mr McElligott interjected. the public should have more say in the proposed gun legislation?" 40 per cent said Mr GRICE: He is clearly mentally "No" and 58 per cent said "Yes". In answer to retarded. the question, "Are you happy with the Time and time again, police officers tell us suggested Medicare increase to fund the that, if one has a dog, one has a much lower proposed $500m gun buyback scheme chance of one's home being broken into. announced by the Federal Government?" 45 What is the reason for their telling us that? It is per cent said "No" and 46 per cent said "Yes". not the fact that the dog might be six-feet tall I believe that the statistics that mean the and will tear off a thief's leg; it is the fact that most to me are those obtained to the first the dog can kick up a racket and alert people three questions: "Do you think all to the fact that somebody is on the property. If semiautomatic and automatic military-style it is a fact that a dog will keep people out of firearms should be banned?"—79 per cent one's yard—and it is—is it not also logical to said "Yes"; "Do you believe that there are any think that, if thieves and people who commit type of firearms that should remain home invasions are aware that a firearm is in legal?"—78 per cent said "Yes"; and "Do you the house, they would be less likely to enter think it should remain legal for a householder that house? I think that that is logic that—— to use a firearm to protect his or her Mr Fouras: Did you find out from your family?"—60 per cent said "Yes." Those are survey what is going to happen to you when very important figures that should be borne in you vote on this Bill today? Will that have an mind by us all. impact on you in local terms? I believe that the way in which these Mr GRICE: I am sorry to interrupt what changes to our firearm regulations were the honourable member was doing. instigated was an absolute knee-jerk reaction. Mr Fouras: I really wanted to find out Some of the advice given to the Prime whether you found out whether you would be Minister was bizarre. For example, to pick out re-elected or not? the action of a pump-action rifle from lever and bolt action rifles defies any logic that I am Mr GRICE: Does the honourable aware of. What is the difference between a member want to put that question on notice? pump action, a lever action or a bolt action? Mr Fouras: No, I just thought that you Any practised shooter can get shots away might tell me if you found out whether people equally as quickly with any of those three will vote for you, depending on how you vote types of actions. on this Bill. My connection with firearms goes back a Mr GRICE: I do have that statistic. I will long time. When I was competing in two tell the honourable member quietly. It is on the 3680 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 bottom of my notes. I did not mention it. I will understand—and I find it an affront—why show it quietly to the member for Ashgrove people who have little .22s and shotguns at later. home do not receive one cent of I would like to thank the Minister and his compensation, yet we have to pay people who staff. I think that they have clearly done the have expensive guns worth thousands of best they possibly could. If the people of dollars. If anyone can, those are the people Queensland look at the legislation and the who could afford to bear that cost. I find that regulations we finish up with, they will very difficult to accept and understand. I appreciate that, when they are correctly believe that, if we act decently and we want to interpreted, we finished up with the very best lawfully take a person's gun, that person that we could. I thank them for making the should be compensated, even if it is a little best of what a large number of Queenslanders slug gun, a .22 or a pump-action shotgun. If clearly think is a bad situation. we want to take that gun, why are we discriminating? We are discriminating because Mr CAMPBELL (Bundaberg) some of those guns come under category A (3.32 p.m.): This debate on the Weapons and others under category B. The really Amendment Bill reminds me greatly of the restricted ones that come under category C debates on the National Competition Policy. and category D are the only ones that we will When that issue was debated, members said pay for. Personally, I find that very difficult to that they were very concerned because they accept. If we have the money to compensate did not know whether it was in the best people for guns—— interests of their constituents, yet the legislation would go through. As a member of Mr Dollin: Even the illegal guns. this Chamber that legislates, I am concerned Mr CAMPBELL: We compensate that, as individuals, we all have those same people for illegal guns, but we do not pay concerns about this legislation, yet we know anything to people for guns that they legally the Bill will go through. We are all concerned owned. Often those people are the battlers that it has been said again that this is not who probably do not own much else. I thought good legislation, that in many cases it is a at least $50 for a .22 would be a sign of good sham and that we should be considering faith. It is not as if we do not have the money. legislation that is more workable. When the The suspense account of the Treasurer Minister for Primary Industries participated in contains only approximately $230m, but the the debate on the Weapons Bill, he referred to ordinary old battler will not be compensated. the coming of a police State; yet, suddenly, all Mr Barton: That's a lot of $50 pop guns. that has changed and everything is now all warm and fuzzy. I am concerned that Mr CAMPBELL: There would be a lot of members are railroaded into doing something $50 pop guns. And what about the road tolls! that we know may not work. This is unfair legislation. It is unfair to say I listened to the member for Maryborough that we are going to take something off when he spoke in this debate. His comments people and not compensate them for it. The really do make sense. I believe that it is people who can least afford it are the ones unlawful and immoral to ask hardworking who will lose. families who are battling to make ends meet Some very genuine people have talked to to buy someone else's gun. In most cases me about their concerns. They are not those families do not own a gun. Even if they rednecks; they are genuine collectors who did, they would not be able to afford or be have collected guns that were manufactured allowed to keep it under this legislation. last century. They have done the right thing What worries me more than anything else and kept them in appropriate and safe ways. I about this legislation is the fact that, because think that we should make certain that those a person lives in a certain place and owns a people are protected. large tract of land, for some unknown reason Today I would like to raise some issues that person will have the right to own a gun; that were raised with me. Some organisations however, people who live in provincial cities or have annual hunting expeditions and take capital cities are not allowed—because they people pig shooting on the Cooper. Do the are not responsible enough—to have that companies that organise those hunting tours same privilege. obtain the licences? Can they have guns for The second aspect that really concerns their clients? Many people who go on pig me is that the people who can least afford it hunting tours in western Queensland do not are the ones who are going to pay. We will have a right to have a gun because they do pay for it through the Medicare levy. I cannot not know the place that they are going to. Will 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3681 that activity no longer go ahead? How will that other words, people have to have a licence problem be overcome? before they can get a gun. I am just Another aspect that has been raised wondering whether people can actually get a again and again, and will be raised yet again licence and a permit at the same time, or do because of increased licensing requirements, they have to get one first and then the other relates to what happens when a gun owner later? That could result in a situation in which dies and leaves a gun in an estate. That has people who do not have a licence have to go happened in my electorate. A widow has through the procedure laid down to get a suddenly become the owner of a gun and she licence and then, once they have a licence, is not a registered gun owner. People in that they have to go back and get a permit to be circumstance suddenly own a gun illegally. able to get a gun. I am just wondering if those What can they do with those guns? Are they procedures can be done concurrently. allowed to sell that gun when they do not have Otherwise, in reality, it could be several a licence and they are unregistered? That months before a person could become a problem is occurring at present and needs to member of a gun club or is able to participate be clarified. in a sport or something like that. I am not certain whether that is clarified in this Another concern relates to guns that are legislation. not provided for under proposed new section 8(4). When a licence application is being Mr Cooper interjected. considered, among other things the mental Mr CAMPBELL: Yes, because a lot of and physical fitness of a person is considered. people will have to get new licences. I know that mental fitness is very important, Mr Cooper interjected. particularly in the context of domestic violence. That is something about which we should be Mr CAMPBELL: They will be able to do very concerned. However, as to physical that? Again, I am not certain whether that will fitness—in some cases, shooting is one of the happen. Those are some of the concerns that few sports in which some disabled people can have been raised in other forums. I believe participate. In fact, they modify the guns so that matters relating to ammunition for that they can participate in that sport. I wonder collectors have been taken out of the Bill and whether that has been taken into account. dealt with in another way. Although there are That applies whether one has to use a cane or some major concerns about that matter, I has a dicky knee. It will be interesting to see believe that they may have been taken into how that will be defined. account. Some people have suggested we should I raise the situation regarding paint-ball be considering the definition of an antique guns. Are they covered under this legislation? firearm. The legislation states that an antique Do they come under category A? I am firearm means a firearm manufactured before wondering how they are going to be 1900 and not designed to discharge cartridge handled—whether they are included in the ammunition. I do not know whether that definitions or whether or not we should have definition is the right one to use. I believe that them included in the legislation. the definition that is used in Victoria is that I have raised some concerns and I have such guns have to be made before 1900 and listened to the speeches of many of the other that there is no commercially available members. This is another piece of legislation ammunition. Who is going to take a gun that about which many people have very great was made in the last century to do damage concerns. Many people have said that some such as was done at Port Arthur? Some of aspects of the legislation are unworkable. It those people who collect those guns take concerns me that we are prepared to go down great pride in making them a workable a path of enacting unworkable legislation. I do collector's item. I am just wondering whether not own a gun; I will not have one in my we are getting caught up in definitions that we house. I do not want one. I have seen too really do not need. Perhaps we could consider many people hurt through gun accidents— amending the legislation or whether there is family members hurt through gun accidents— some other way of making sure that those and they have been sworn off guns forever. I antique guns are not treated the same as have seen too many problems created those high-powered, automatic and through domestic violence and the damage semiautomatic guns, which are of great that guns have done in those situations. I concern to the general public. believe that we have done some good work in The other concern I have is about the that regard and tightened up the laws relating licence and the requirement to get a permit. In to domestic violence. 3682 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996

I believe that anyone who has a record of does so on the basis that this approval of the committing domestic violence should have House that is being sought is given only in guns taken out of their control. I think that is these particular and unique circumstances and something that we have to feel very strongly is in no way to be seen to create a precedent about. If we are going to take guns off those for future occurrences of the person holding people who have domestic violence orders the office of Speaker coming down onto the taken out against them, we must ensure that floor of the House either in the second-reading the police are going to enforce those orders. debate or in Committee. Too many concerns have been raised about Mr Lingard: The Speaker of the British police who would rather not be involved in Parliament does not stand for election. domestic violence situations. They would rather get away from it than go through the full Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I accept that process of ensuring that no guns are involved interjection from the member. The Speaker of in a domestic violence situation and that the the House of Commons—— people who are in those domestic violence Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Laming): situations are protected. Until police follow Order! The member will complete his point of those procedures, I do not know whether order. people in domestic violence situations are Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Mr Deputy going to be protected from being hurt by guns. Speaker, I am sorry. I was being provoked. I believe that we need greater gun Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Do not be control. Although we have great reservations provoked. about whether this legislation will work or not, I hope that we will have fewer deaths because Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I must add that it of guns. was an incorrect interjection. The point that I would like to see made in this instance is that Hon. N. J. TURNER (Nicklin) (3.45 the approval that is sought from the House is p.m.): I seek leave of the House to speak in given on the basis that it is not—— this gun debate as the honourable member for Nicklin. Mr Radke interjected. Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: Mr Deputy Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I rise to a point of Speaker, I wish that you would ask these order under Standing Order 333. It is not my people to stop making provocative avowed intention to prevent the member for interjections while I am making a point. The Nicklin from taking part in this debate. point that I want to make is that this incident However, I think that it is important that the be not seen as a precedent in this Chamber or House understands exactly what it is doing. in any other Chamber that follows the For the information of members, Standing Westminster tradition. I recognise that we are Order 333 states that in all cases not specially talking about conventions and not hard and provided for by the Standing Orders the fast rules. However, I believe that those practice of the House of Commons prevails. conventions are important and they are what The House of Commons says this about the sets this Chamber, and other Chambers like it, participation of a Speaker in a debate before apart from many other forums of debate. I the House—and I quote from Erskine May— think that it is important that we should "Confidence in the impartiality of the acknowledge them and abide by them. Speaker is an indispensable condition of Mr FITZGERALD: I rise under Standing the successful working of procedure, and Order 333. The honourable member for many conventions exist which have as Caboolture raised the issue of the practice of their object not only to ensure the the House of Commons and said that it is a impartiality of the Speaker but also to convention that the Speaker of that House ensure that his impartiality is generally does not take part in debates or does not vote recognized." or speak in Committee. This House has It then says, and this is quite specific— already set the precedent. When the "He takes no part in debate either in honourable member who is just trying to get to the House or in committee." his feet, the honourable member for Ashgrove, was Speaker, he voted in this I recognise that these are conventions Chamber in the Committee stage. This House and are described as such in Erskine May. has already set the precedent that overturns However, I ask that this House understands the practice of the House of Commons. We the question that is being asked of it by the have had precedents in this place where member for Nicklin. If the House accedes to Speakers have voted, as the member for the request that is being made, the House Nicklin or as the member for Ashgrove, in the 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3683

Committee stage. However, the member, by the Bill and defeat its passage through the referring to Erskine May, has implied that the House. Speaker should not join the debate. I believe The Weapons Amendment Bill is the that the honourable member for Nicklin should most divisive legislation to have ever come be heard. before the Parliament since I entered this Mr FOURAS: I rise to a point of order. I House in 1974. It contains the most un- would like to ask the Speaker to reconsider his Australian proposals this nation has ever seen. decision to speak. I do not believe that he has These laws were conceived out of the Port the luxury of just becoming the member for Arthur tragedy with the best of intentions, and Nicklin. He was called as the member for I extend my deepest sympathy to the families, Nicklin. I will quote again the relevant part of relatives and friends of everyone killed on that Erskine May. It states— tragic day. If I could believe that this Bill ". . . conventions exist. . . to ensure the included suitable proposals and solutions to impartiality of the Speaker but also to prevent a similar tragedy occurring, it would ensure that his impartiality is generally have my utmost support. However, not even recognized. He takes no part in the Prime Minister, in his own words, believes debate . . . He votes only when the voices this to be the case. are equal." Governments have a responsibility to bring in practical, sensible, workable I point out to members opposite that legislation. Sadly, those criteria do not apply in when I was Speaker and asked for a this case, no matter how well meaning it may deliberative vote to be given to the Speaker be. In fact, I venture to say that it could because the numbers were so tight, it would possibly have the opposite effect and cause have allowed the House to be totally even more deaths and an escalating crime representative. When I asked for the Speaker wave such as this nation has never seen. to be given a deliberative vote, the coalition said that it would politicise the office of the Since the loss of 35 of our fellow Speaker. I think that the member whom we Australians at Port Arthur, some 25,000 have elected to be our Speaker in this people have died as a result of smoking- Parliament cannot, when he chooses, become related illnesses and 1,500 people have died the honourable member for Nicklin. He cannot in motor vehicle accidents. That is all very do that. I think that he is setting a dangerous tragic, but no-one is suggesting that we go to precedent. I believe that we are throwing the extreme and make it almost impossible for conventions out the window, which is a very people to own a car in the way that is dangerous way to go. I will not divide the proposed with guns. Everyone who steps into House. I will say no more other than to a car is a potential killer, but we cannot brand express the point of view that this is totally Australian citizens as potential law breakers wrong. Again, I ask the member for Nicklin because they possess the machinery which how he expects to be treated: as the member has the capacity to do harm. for Nicklin or as the Speaker? Drugs, alcohol, cars, guns, knives, petrol, Leave granted. bombs—all are a problem. Prohibition of all these potential dangers is not the solution. Hon. N. J. TURNER (Nicklin) There is enough evidence to show that (3.51 p.m.): In answer to the honourable prohibition has never saved lives. America did member for Ashgrove, I put myself before the not solve its alcohol-related problems during House and was quite happy not to speak in Prohibition. In fact, the opposite occurred. the debate if the House so chose. I would Prohibition encouraged an escalation in the then have followed the precedent set by the size of the criminal element and an honourable member, if need be, and spoken unprecedented crime wave which in itself killed during the debate on the clauses. many more people than did alcohol, and I thank the Parliament for granting me citizens were worse off. leave to speak as the member for Nicklin on We in this State already have extremely the legislation before the House. It gives me strict gun laws. Why drive the trade no great joy to take this action. However, my underground, lining the pockets of conscience dictates that I do so. I believe that unscrupulous people while leaving us what I have to say today will strike a chord in unprotected in our homes? It is naive to quite a few members in this Chamber and, believe that all Australians will happily hand were it possible to have a secret ballot on this over their guns. We can recall guns until we issue, there would be enough Liberal, Labor are blue in the face, but I venture to say that and National Party members to vote against no criminals will hand over their weapons. All 3684 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 we will be targeting are our law abiding citizens massacre in Australia has ever occurred as a with the insulting inference that they have the result of the use of an heirloom firearm. All potential to be killers. This is very offensive to thinking persons accept that military-type me, and many of my fellow Australians feel weapons should not be in the hands of the same way. civilians. It should also be noted that the To top it off, anyone who premeditates a lunatic who committed the massacre in massacre like Port Arthur will have no problem Tasmania was not a licensed shooter and illegally obtaining a gun to carry out his bizarre stole the weapon that he was using. act. Surely we do not believe that the criminal As a result of the massacre and the dealer has any concern about the outcome of media-created hysteria which followed, all the his sale? His motive is profit only. A gun kills law-abiding, legitimate shooters in many and effectively, be it licensed or unlicensed. varied disciplines have been insulted. They have been insulted because they will be A madman who wants to kill does not classed as criminals should they pursue their even need a gun. If one looks at the history of sport as it presently exists. Many shotgun tragic events, there will always be a way to do shooters prefer a gas-operated, low-recoil the unspeakable: the Oklahoma bombing semiautomatic shotgun as it provides comfort killed 168 people; the Lockerbie air disaster, and stability, especially if the shooter is aged, 258 killed; the New York air disaster; the has arthritis, is a woman or teenager or is Alabama bombing; the events at Waco, handicapped. Why on earth do we want to Texas; the Birmingham bombing; the Hilton punish tens of thousands of law-abiding bombing in Sydney; three gallons of petrol citizens and deprive them of the opportunity to thrown at the Whisky Au-Go-Go in Brisbane, a participate in their chosen sport, simply mile from this place, killed some 15 or 20 because the Prime Minister, Mr Howard, will young people several years ago; the fatality at not allow crimping of their shotguns? To think Ayers Rock when a drunk was thrown out of a that any of those people would reverse the bar, cranked up his Mack truck and drove it crimping is ludicrous, because they only need through a wall, killing some six or eight people; to fire two shots out of a five-shot shotgun. and the Tokyo subway gassing. An empty However, the criminals will not be crimping; beer bottle full of petrol and detergent creates they will still have their automatic and pump- napalm, and thrown into a bus load of old action shotguns. The people to whom I have tourists going to the casino would virtually kill referred cannot use any ordinary shotgun to them all. Gang bashings of innocent people fire 50 or 60 rounds on a Sunday afternoon; it taking a stroll—just kick them to death. would destroy their shoulder. Smashing up their spleen or head will do the trick. There is no need for a gun. You name All State Governments should have it—the potential to kill is with us and all around forced a referendum on this issue alone if the us, whether we like it or not. Banning the hard- Prime Minister could not or would not toed boot, petrol, bullets and so on will not understand their very real concerns. Turning to solve the problem. the bureaucrats behind the introduction of this particular legislation, I have in my Perhaps money spent on a punishment hand—although it will not go into Hansard—a that fits the crime and money spent on social brochure entitled, "Gun Use. How it Affects solutions to overcome many of the social You". That brochure was put out by the problems confronting society would be a better Commonwealth Government in June 1996. alternative. Many police officers have put the When looking at the front page, I do not proposal to me that $4m to $5m spent on wonder that they would not know the police enforcement work with criminals and difference between centre-fire and rim-fire. dealers would be money better spent and There is a picture of a gun on the front of the would achieve more than the estimated cost brochure, but I do not know what it is. It is a of the gun laws proposal, which is somewhere break-open, lever-action gun. I have been between $500m and $1,000m. In which other around a long time, and I have never seen areas could that sort of money be spent to one in my life. That shows how knowledgeable better effect to save Australian lives? they are! The possession of any heirloom firearm I turn to the supposed genuine reasons will be allowed through an heirloom licence necessary to possess a firearm. The one which limits ownership to one firearm, a brace paramount reason for the possession of a or a set and requires the firearms to be firearm is not included in that section and it is rendered permanently inoperable. This action essential that it be included if this legislation then makes them totally valueless. Although I goes through, namely, a reason allowing am not aware of it, I venture to say that no "appropriate self defence". This is so vital that 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3685 to leave it out implies ulterior motives by right of gun ownership for people with criminal politicians and those behind the basic records or who are the subject of domestic intention of the legislation. It is inconceivable, violence orders; and, finally, they should have unbelievable, incomprehensible and downright strengthened the penal provisions such that un-Australian that self defence against anyone—and I mean anyone—who criminals and hoons is not reason enough to committed any gun offence had the full force own a gun. of the law brought down on them, with The Bill suggests that every firearm something up to an extra five years' penalty requires a separate permit and has to be being given on top of the sentence imposed licensed, which means that what was once a by the judge, for example, if a bank or service lifetime licence now becomes a licence for a station was robbed or any gun offence was maximum of five years. What a great revenue committed in this nation. raiser for the future for all forms of I know that there is a limit on the speaking Government! We will have a nationwide time. I thank the House for giving me the register of all guns. Apparently we do not learn opportunity to have my say. In conclusion, I from other jurisdictions. New Zealand tried this wish to say that we have the strictest gun laws tactic, but it proved an administrative possibly in the world pertaining to concealable nightmare and was dropped. firearms. There would not be one member of Shooters will require a genuine reason this Chamber who could go out tomorrow and and need to have a weapon, and the police, obtain a licence to carry a concealable firearm. of all people, will decide whether we can have However, every criminal has one. If we passed one. The power of the police to make that legislation tomorrow recalling every decision leads me to the issue of the concealable firearm in Australia, I will tell regulations which do not accompany this Bill honourable members what would happen. but which cannot be separated from it. The Bill Some 99.9 per cent of all law-abiding citizens is so complex, convoluted and bound up in would hand in their pistol reluctantly. They red tape that it is a nightmare. To this would feel antagonised and would not be very legislation after it is passed will be added happy with the political parties which instigated volumes of regulations—regulations governing that legislation. However, not one criminal or how guns will be seized, stored, destroyed, bank robber in Queensland would hand in his and the rights of entry of the police. Such gun. regulations do not have to go before the As a hypothetical example, honourable Parliament. Many of our fellow citizens of members might have a family heirloom which European origin have concerns about the has been handed down from their grandfather extent of the powers of these as yet unknown who used it to win the Military Medal in 1918 regulations which rekindle fears of past on the Western Front. Such an heirloom would experiences in Europe, Bosnia, Cyprus and so have to be handed in to be either rendered on. inoperable or destroyed. I think it is crazy Unfortunately, we are now also faced with legislation. I thank honourable members for the stirring up of racial tensions—something giving me the opportunity to express my views compounded by Pauline Hanson's on it. campaign—which is instilling a sense of Mr HEALY (Toowoomba North) unease in people who have come here to (4.03 p.m.): Today I rise to speak to this piece avoid the very insecurities that they now of legislation with the same reservations and perceive, rightly or wrongly. This sense of the trepidation as has been expressed by other unknown, insecurity and resentment no nation members of this House in relation to this Bill. can afford. We are undermining the core of As many other members have done, at the our belief system, the very foundation which outset I wish to pay tribute to the Minister for allows Australia to be an example to the world Police and Corrective Services for the way in of how people from many nations can work which he and his team have done what they together cohesively to build a strong, vibrant could to rescue what was going to be a tragic nation and live in peace and harmony. Why situation for gun owners in this State. sow the seed and potentially destroy all this? I well remember the Minister's words when Following Port Arthur, my belief is that all he returned to Queensland following that now Governments had to do three particular things: infamous Police Ministers conference, when firstly, ban all bazookas, cannons, mortars, the even more infamous resolutions were hand grenades, machine guns and military- released that have led to the legislation we are style semiautomatics and leave the law- debating today. I can remember that the abiding citizens alone; secondly, revoke the Minister said he thought he had been hit over 3686 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 the head with something totally unexpected. I resolutions and saying to the Prime Minister, also think it is fair to say that, in common with "We'll do our best", and eventually agreeing to quite a few of his colleagues at that what he had to say, we have probably saved a conference, our Minister believed that the lot of people a lot more heartache than that States were simply going to be asked to enact which they may or may not be encountering legislation that would outlaw only the types of now in respect of the use of their firearms. weapons used in the Port Arthur massacre— I think it would have been an absolute the semiautomatics and military-style disaster had that referendum been held. weapons. I guess most of the Ministers There is a lot of opinion around the nation to attending that conference believed that that suggest that it may have gone another way was going to happen, but of course it was not and that it would have come down to a States' to be. When they arrived, they found that they rights issue. That may very well have been the had to take away resolutions around which case but, again, it was too much of a they had to try to enact some legislation. dangerous situation and it was too great a We are all aware of the intent canvassed threat for us to take that risk. It was a huge by the Prime Minister and the Federal risk. All of the concessions that have been Attorney-General. So it was up to the Minister fought for by people such as Russell Cooper in Queensland to try to protect the interests of and his team may have been thrown out. as many gun owners in Queensland as he Eventually, with Commonwealth control of the possibly could. I believe that is probably what legislation, there could have been a possible he has done with this legislation. He did disarmament of this country had there been a consult with as many creditable groups and referendum. That is my opinion. Fortunately, organisations as he possibly could. Then not that has not happened. only did he set about formulating legislation At the end of the day, I believe that that would adhere to the basic philosophy of Queenslanders, in the main, will still be able to the Police Ministers conference; he also tried keep those firearms which are allowable under to placate the thousands of gun owners in this the various categories if they are able to State, who should never feel that they are provide the required reason or need. While being held responsible for the tragedy of Port Queensland and this Government have been Arthur. They should never be made to feel forced to introduce this legislation, the one that way. saving aspect of it is that it is our legislation, Much has already been said in this not the Commonwealth's. That is an important debate about the threat of a referendum had consideration, because it means that we have the Prime Minister not got his way in relation to the power and the authority to amend the uniform gun laws across this nation. That legislation should that be required at any time threat was a very real one. In common with in the future. If it was Commonwealth members on this side of the House, I can legislation, we would not have that power. I remember the Monday prior to a parliamentary suggest that that scenario may very well come sitting week when we gathered in the about, because I do not believe that this is O'Donovan Library. I can recall the Premier going to work. Many members of the House saying to us that he had just been on the have also expressed the opinion that it is not phone to the Prime Minister and that the going to work. I may be proven wrong, but that Prime Minister had said to him that, if we did is my personal belief. At least if I am not wrong not agree with what he had to say on the and at some time in the future there is enough issue of crimping, he was ready to call a reason to amend the legislation, the important referendum the next day. It was a real threat. thing is that we have the power and autonomy I say to all gun owners in the State, in Queensland to do that. particularly in my own area where firearm As I said, much of what I wanted to say in owners showed great concern, as they did in this debate has already been said by other most electorates, that it was a threat which I members from both sides of the House, so I am personally glad we were able to thwart. will not be repetitive and take up much more Deep down in my heart I felt that, had that time. However, I would like to say something referendum been held, the large populated about the contribution of my colleague the areas in the major cities in this country would member for Warwick, who was the first of the have overwhelmed the rest of this nation by speakers from this side of the House in this voting to hand complete control over to the debate. I know how concerned he was about Commonwealth. That is how I felt. That is how this legislation. I know about the amount of I know a lot of my colleagues felt, and that is time, effort and thought that went into what he something that I was not prepared to support. had to say. If there was a need for only one By our being able to work around some of the speaker from this side of the House in this 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3687 debate, I think we would agree that what he decisively away from the USA path, then we had to say summed up what most of us were should seize that opportunity. thinking. In the future I am sure that if people The legislation we are debating today are looking for some sort of direction as to the does not remove all firearms from the intent of members, particularly on this side of Queensland community. In the lead-up to this the House, they have only to read the Weapons Amendment Bill, there was much contribution of the member for Warwick. comment on constitutional rights. There is only Whether we like it or not, or whether we one Federal constitutional right in this whole agree or not, we are all victims of Port Arthur in debate which is actually referred to in the one way or another. The issue is whether we Australian Constitution, that is, that acquisition as Australians can learn from the tragedy and of private property must be on just terms. This be better Australians for it. point has been debated by other honourable Mr RADKE (Greenslopes) (4.10 p.m.): I members present. do not come to this debate as someone who Much comment has been made by some reacted in a knee-jerk response to the tragic pro-firearm owners that they need firearms for events of Port Arthur. In fact, should people self-defence. Our courts have recently upheld examine my correspondence, they will find the defence plea of killing in self-defence that my attitude to firearms is as follows: it when the attacking force was met with remains a privilege, not a right, to bear arms. equitable defending force. However, when the This position is based on our prehistoric force of self-defence is greater than custom that it is a sign of adulthood to bear necessary, the charge of murder is justified. To arms, where adulthood is a status determined prove this point I wish to examine our colonial by society and society has the right to fix and history, which shows that the constabulary maintain or adjust its own ideas, policies and were, and still are, responsible for delivering laws. Furthermore, arms used for defence of a and maintaining law and order. The case in nation are most suitably kept in an armoury, point involves the bloody battles of the colony as is our custom since the middle ages. of New South Wales, where there was a Thirdly, I am an Australian, and the reference treacherous slaying of Aborigines at Dangar's that the United States of America's Myall Creek pastoral holding near the present Constitution is admirable in permitting citizens town of Inverell in the year 1838. I will read to to bear arms remains questionable, since the House some extracts of a letter from reference to the right to bear arms is in context Governor Gipps of 17 July 1838 to Lord with citizen militias who take their weapons Glenelg. The letter states— home, as occurs in today's Switzerland. "My Lord In speaking to the Weapons Amendment Bill 1996, I wish to place on record the In my Despatch of the 21st July last, overwhelming support, voiced to me by the (No. 115), I brought under your Lordship's majority of constituents in the Greenslopes notice a long list of atrocities, committed electorate, that we Queensland both by and on the Aborigines of this parliamentarians do not weaken our resolve to Country; and I then stated that I had pass national gun laws, thereby restricting the despatched a party of Mounted Police in availability of weapons in the community. I do search of some white men, who were acknowledge that these laws involve some supposed to have put to death in cold reduction in the individual liberty of some blood; not less than twenty two helpless Australians. I also know that, in the main, the and unoffending Aborigines; it is now my overwhelming bulk of current firearms owners painful duty to inform your Lordship, that are decent, ordinary, law-abiding fellow seven of the perpetrators of this atrocious Queenslanders. However, it is necessary that deed, having been convicted on the a group accept some curtailment of their clearest evidence, suffered yesterday individual liberty in the overall greater common morning the extreme penalty which the good. law awards for the crime of murder. The nature of democracy is always a The act for which these men have constantly revolving comparison between the paid the forfeit of their lives, took place on aggregate rights and interests of the the evening of Sunday, the 10th June last community and the unrestricted rights of at or near a Cattle station, belonging to a individuals. Achieving that compromise is the person of the name of Henry Dangar, responsibility of a democratically elected distant perhaps 350 miles from Sydney in Government. Therefore, when it comes to the a direction due North, on the banks of the safety of our community, when we have the Myall Creek. opportunity as people to freely choose a path . . . 3688 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996

It appeared on the trial that, for some 1954. Now, in 1996, the Weapons weeks previous to the 10th June, not less Amendment Bill will also ban the current than fifty Aborigines of all ages and sexes practices of some firearm owners. Fortunately, had been living at these different stations so far in the debate before the House no (but mostly at Mr Dangar's) in perfect innuendo has surfaced raising concerns about tranquillity, neither molesting the Whites personal gain in the passage of this Bill. nor being themselves molested by them. In closing—during the Committee stage of In consequence of some old quarrels, the debate I will raise the issue of how licences however, or possibly from accounts will affect hand-made precision projectile having reached the place of occurrences manufacturers and bee keepers. in other quarters, a termination seems to have been formed by the white men to Mr CARROLL (Mansfield) (4.19 p.m.): put the whole of the Aborigines to death. Other members from both sides of the House On the afternoon of the Sunday, the 10th who have spoken in this debate have flagged June, a number of them suddenly the many issues relevant to this Weapons Bill surrounded the place, where more than and I shall keep my contribution brief. I speak thirty of the Aborigines were assembled; in support of the Bill which has the support of they tied them all to a rope in the way that Labor, Liberal and National Party members. I Convicts are sometimes tied, in order to agree with the remarks of the member for be taken from place to place in the Keppel on the likely outcome of the Colony, marched them to a convenient referendum that was threatened to us. There spot about a quarter of a mile off, and put is no doubt that the vast majority of them all, with the exception of one Australians, and especially Queenslanders, woman and four or five children, wanted us to pass this Bill. deliberately to death." In the past six months, I have spoken to This reflection on Australian history clearly thousands of people from Hobart to Saibai demonstrates that civilians are not permitted Island in far-north Queensland, from to take the law into their own hands. One point Mornington Island and Mount Isa to the cities often missed by Australia's citizens is that the up and down the Queensland coast. The vast first type of European Government in Australia majority of these people want the much tighter was a military Government. Therefore, gun laws that they believe are contained in historically in Australia and Queensland there this Bill. exists no basis for ownership of a weapon on I object to the way in which the media, grounds of self-defence. especially television broadcasters, confuse the public by constantly referring to automatic and A second argument which has been semiautomatic firearms. Many of those people noisily peddled in the community is that we are supporting prohibition thought that our banning a way of life for decent, law-abiding legislation would be limited to the military style citizens. In response to this argument, I wish weapons which we have seen wreaking havoc to refer this Forty-eighth Parliament to the in the crazy video films that misshape the debates involving the Animals Protection Acts minds of our young people. I have no doubt Amendment Act of September 1954, which that we would have different legislation if the successfully banned and made illegal a way of media had been fair and truthful on this issue. life. The Animals Protection Acts Amendment For years, automatic firearms have been illegal Act made it an offence for any person to in this country and they are not used in crime promote, or take part in, any shooting match here. at which any animals are released from captivity for the purpose of being shot, While I am aware that many of those including live pigeon shooting. In September people pressing us to pass this Bill have not 1954 there were innuendos that live pigeon yet read it or the Australian Police Ministers' shooting was being banned not out of a Agreement, I do not attack their intelligence response to prevent blood sports but, rather, for nevertheless demanding that this Bill be to save a member of Queensland Parliament passed. They have said that they accept the from bankruptcy due to gambling debts wisdom of Prime Minister Howard and the incurred at live pigeon shoots. Australian Police Ministers, which was backed up by the combined efforts of all of us who Mr McElligott interjected. have made submissions to our Queensland Mr RADKE: I take that interjection—the Police Minister in drafting this Bill. first interjection made during my speech. No, Some people have attacked our Prime he was not a Tory! I advise the honourable Minister and the State Ministers charged with member to read the Hansard of 15 September the tough task of drafting and implementing 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3689 this weapons legislation. I ask those critics to are sentencing criminals involved with firearms, put some serious and constructive effort such as perhaps five years if a firearm is used behind the claims which they mouth. Negative in the commission of an offence and 10 years people get us nowhere. More Queenslanders if a firearm is discharged. If the judges are not should become active in local political party prepared to belt criminals more severely, then branches of whatever flavour might suit them. we parliamentarians will have to simply impose These people should refrain from whingeing those minimum penalties for many of the about the remuneration of elected State and serious offences and therefore narrow the Federal parliamentarians, whose pay I think window of discretion in judicial discretion in should be increased. Let their level of reward sentencing. continue to fall in comparison to salary As the member for Gladstone said, we packages of proven business leaders and must go after the criminals; we must make fewer people with wisdom and the decision sure that sentences are heavier and that they making ability needed for this public work will are in fact what they are supposed to be. If be interested in taking on the very hard work this nation invested in crime punishment the of elected public political life, especially those funds that will be going to weapons collection filling ministerial positions or higher office. and repayment of people who might be The publication of the draft Bill and dispossessed of weapons under this Explanatory Notes is important. I know that legislation, then we would be far better off. most members of this House happily took delivery of hundreds of copies of that material I am sorry to say that the legislation will and distributed them. I distributed over 300 cause great inconvenience to those many law- copies of the Bill, the Explanatory Notes and abiding citizens who have collections of the Minister's second-reading speech to the valuable and interesting firearms. There are many Mansfield constituents and others who many such citizens who have developed a are members of the several gun clubs that hobby that involves a study of history, science, have their headquarters in the electorate of ballistics, fine instrumentation, art work, Mansfield. I have been to the meetings that I maintenance and even lathe work relevant to could get to, that is, those protesting against firearms. I appeal to these folk to apply their the expected legislation, and I have drawn flak knowledge in complying with the new weapons from people, even in my own party, over an legislation. I have spoken to members and implication that I would speak firmly and office bearers in the many gun clubs and know bluntly to express the views of my constituents that they will do that. I compliment all those on this matter and other coalition decisions. involved with the Belmont Rifle Range in the electorate of Mansfield, which is one of the I have been to the five major gun club largest and best in the southern hemisphere. premises in the Mansfield electorate at Many of the clubs there have made Belmont Rifle Range to deliver copies of this substantial improvements and have made a material and to listen to people's views. I have very heavy investment in a particular sport met with dozens of delegations and gone to which I hope will survive this legislation. several homes, as requested, to view the collections of weapons and to try to The agreement of the Australian Police understand and make sure that we could Ministers attracted overwhelming public reflect in this House the views of the people support because it looked like a big help in concerned. In common with many other combating the Rambo mind-set imprinted on members, I have dealt with hundreds and our young men by violent video films. The hundreds of phone calls and letters. While I member for Mirani spoke on this subject and I have not spoken today on all those issues endorse his remarks that we need to pay raised, I am sure that all of those issues raised much more careful attention to ridding our have been dealt with by other members on society of that rubbish. both sides of this House in their speeches. I Finally, we need to ensure that elected shall continue to go out of my way to listen to members do not waste time and distract constituents and to work through serious attention and waste the energy of Ministers issues with them. with some of the meaningless, small-minded We all know that this Bill is only part of the debates in which we have become embroiled solution to violent crime and suicide afflicting in this House, and I am not talking about this our society. I urge honourable members to particular Bill but others of recent times. The look at the need for minimum sentences for 6 p.m. to 7 p.m. debate each evening often violent crimes, perhaps set at one-third of the occupies too much of our time in preparation maximum sentences. We should also look at for a sterile debate on issues of no use or additional mandatory impositions when judges relevance to taxpayers. The trial of that 3690 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 particular debate session has been ample and and had laws imposed upon us. We could not we have seen that it is of little benefit to this contemplate that. We have to try to make Parliament. In my view, it should be reduced these laws work. I believe that, in the main, to only one one-hour session each week. they can work. We have a substantial backlog of I want to deal with some of the legislation for the attention of this House. Our contributions of honourable members during Government has done the work of preparing this debate. I might not have time to cover all the legislation and introducing it, but there is a of them. The member for Warwick epitomised serious log jam. All members of this House the views and thoughts of many. He reiterated have cooperated on this Bill by keeping their that this was a difficult decision for any speeches brief and avoiding repetition. Of Government, particularly the National/Liberal course, that discipline should be exercised in Party coalition. He mentioned that it had been all debates. This debate has been sobering, to difficult to get legislation out of those 11 say the least, and I hope that it sets a trend resolutions. If he thinks that was difficult, he for more efficient dispatch of the business of should have gone to Canberra and then come the House. back and tried to deal with it, as I had to do. Hon. T. R. COOPER (Crows Nest— Then he would realise just how difficult it was. I Minister for Police and Corrective Services and thank the member for his comments. Minister for Racing) (4.28 p.m.), in reply: I The member for Warwick said also that realise that time is short, but many members these laws will need to be monitored. That is have put a lot of effort into their contributions true, and they will be monitored. He to this debate and that needs to be mentioned a public education program to acknowledged. Members have raised issues outline what firearms can be retained and to and problems about which we have known give details of the buy-back scheme. That will since at least 10 May. There is no shadow of a be carried out as conveniently as possible. He doubt that this has been an extremely difficult mentioned also a registration scheme, which and trying time for all members. We have could have been a more practical method. heard a wide cross-section of views from The member is right. But if we had bailed out members in this place. of this scheme, the threat of legislation being I wish to refer to the Opposition imposed upon us would have raised its ugly spokesman, the member for Waterford, and head again, and that would have been far his bipartisan support. This issue obviously worse. affected people right across-the-board. We all The Leader of the Opposition, the have constituents who have differing views. member for Brisbane Central, also mentioned Because of those views, it has made this the referendum and the fact that there was no legislation extremely difficult for those of us on choice; that we had to take the hard way. That this side of the Chamber. Nevertheless, it was is exactly what we have done. The Leader of felt that this issue was of such magnitude that the Opposition said that the buy-back scheme a bipartisan approach could work, and that is has been delayed. It has been delayed the way it has gone. because we had to hold out for every cent and We have heard the feelings and thoughts every dollar that we could get. This State does of members on this issue, and I do not not have the funding that was required to pretend for one second that this has been an enter into this sort of scheme. It involves an easy task; it has not. It was probably one of enormous expense, which is estimated to be the worst and most difficult issues we have about $18.25m. The Commonwealth had to come to grips with, but come to grips Government initially offered about $10m or a with it we have. The easy way out would have bit more. But that was still $8m short, and $8m been to do nothing, but if we did nothing we is $8m. We do not have that sort of money, so would have been steamrolled by others who there was a delay. We certainly held out. We would have imposed legislation upon us that said, "You come up with the money. You have was no good to us, and that we did not want. had it pretty easy all the way through. You It was far better, and indeed the harder route, have given us these resolutions, and now that to admit that, while we were going to receive the legislation and the hard work have to enormous criticism, we had to try to do the come to us, you can fork out the funds." It has best we could by those honest, decent been confirmed that that money is available shooters so that we could protect as many of for this scheme. Although the Federal them as possible to allow them to continue Government has given its word, we need to with their pursuits. Had we not done that, we keep an eye on it to make sure that we get would have been run over by a referendum every cent to which we are entitled. 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3691

The Leader of the Opposition referred to The member for Burdekin also referred to extreme elements. He said that some people, category D semiautomatics. He also referred that is, the normal, interested shooters are to that initial stupid idea of locking firearms in genuinely concerned about this. However, he police stations and then going there to pick said that the extreme elements make it difficult one up and take it out to do a job and then for everyone. They have probably confused take it back. We recognised the stupidity of the issue and made it even more distorted that. We had to cut through all of these issues than it was. It is a tragedy that that has over several months—and cut through we did. occurred. Fortunately, in the main, we have It is very disconcerting when one is faced with been able to accommodate most of the those sorts of problems and people who shooters who want to continue their simply do not understand what they are talking pursuits—whether they be recreational, rural, about. That made matters very difficult. occupational or whatever. Most of them Fortunately, we were able to get some sense understand that it will mean some out of this and to ensure that primary inconvenience. We have never denied that. producers and others in similar situations have The idea is to limit that inconvenience as access to category D firearms. They do not much as possible. have to store them in police stations; they can store them at home, even though pretty The member for Burdekin, Mr Stoneman, severe conditions are being placed on that certainly knows an enormous amount about practice. The member mentioned also the firearms. He has had them for yonks, he has compensation factor for fittings. Unless they quite a few of them, and he knows and are custom made for a specific firearm, they understands them. He recognised the difficulty do not qualify for compensation. We of my position during those extremely difficult understand that. The member referred also to circumstances. He was very vocal in his crimping and modification, which I will mention criticism early in the piece. I thank him for that, later. because he was able to point out the I pay tribute to the United Graziers difficulties that many people were facing. The Association, the Queensland Graingrowers question arose as to how on earth we were Association and the Cattlemen's Union. I refer going to deal with that. The member's practical particularly to Mr Ian Macfarlane and Mr Larry understanding was beneficial in drafting this Acton, who gave their support right from the legislation. start. They knew it was an extremely difficult The member for Burdekin referred also to situation. They also knew very well that primary collectors' difficulties. I believe that we have producers could well suffer as a result. resolved quite a number of those difficulties. Fortunately, we were able to work together to ensure that, as far as possible, people can All members on this side of the House wish retain most of their firearms up to and that this legislation was unnecessary, and that including some semiautomatics, which I will the events that led up to it were unnecessary. also mention later. However, we have had to come to grips with it. Mr Stoneman referred to the fact that guns The member for Yeronga talked about are not dangerous unless loaded. He criticised the right to bear arms and the Bill of Rights of the Prime Minister for his severe lack of 1688. People who are involved in occupational understanding of the practicalities of the shooting—be it recreational, target, sporting implementation of such ill-thought-out shooting and so on—can bear arms. A lot of resolutions. Other members have covered that comments have been made about people aspect. being disarmed. That is simply not true. People who have category A, B, C, some The member mentioned his own category D and category H firearms will be semiautomatic sporting rifle. Sporting shooters able to keep them, but I recognise that those have been victimised. I believe that people will suffer some inconvenience if they semiautomatic centre-fire rifles should be want to do that. permitted on military ranges and places such The member for Hinchinbrook is another as that. We tried extremely hard to get member who has expert experience and agreement along those lines. People in the background. He assisted enormously right Mackay area and in Brisbane have suffered as from the start. I thank him for that. He a result of that. There was nothing on earth mentioned the service .303 and said that that the Federal Government would do to people were aggravated about that. He said change or bend on that. We were in a cleft that his constituents certainly were stick, and it was a case of opting in or opting aggravated. Many of them wanted the out. That decision was extremely difficult. legislation to stay the same; so did a lot of 3692 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 people. But, as I have said, the circumstances worked with her in the Mulgrave area on many were beyond our control. It was a case of occasions. It was nice to meet with people doing the best we could. But those firearms who were concerned but also very that the member was talking about will be understanding and who wanted to make the available to people who are eligible. It is simply legislation work. They were prepared to work a question of which category they fall into. with it. On many occasions, we met with The member for Hinchinbrook mentioned people who were willing to recognise and the massacres that have occurred and talked understand the difficulties that we all about others that may follow. Of course, no- experienced. We were trying to do the best we one has any control over that. Obviously, could, and they were prepared to work with us massacres have occurred in the past, and I in order to make the legislation as sensible believe that they will occur in the future. and as practical as possible. The member for Although we do not want them to occur, no- Mulgrave also mentioned my leaving the one can legislate against them occurring. The legislation on the table for a decent period to member mentioned also the Prohibited allow a fairly long period of consultation and Persons Register and the support from the discussion. We have tried to use that time to AMA and other organisations. That is explain the aspects of the legislation to those interesting, because I remember trying to do people who wanted to listen. business with people from the AMA some The member for Mulgrave mentioned the years ago in relation to a prohibited persons Prime Minister's reluctance to accept register, and they would not look at it then. modification by way of crimping. That certainly That was in about 1992. Since then, the AMA created difficulties. Members of this House has adopted a more open, amenable and have mentioned that issue before. It was practical approach to this. I understand that certainly a stance that mystified us, because the AMA does agree that the medical crimping would have provided a lot of savings profession should inform authorities if they in terms of compensation. Crimping of the realise that they have a person with a guns was an eminently sensible option for problem. Although notification may not be young people, females and handicapped compulsory at this stage, in the case of people who use semiautomatic shotguns in sexually transmitted diseases and other target and trap pursuits, but there was no way diseases health authorities have to be notified in the world that that would have been by compulsion, so the stage may be reached accepted by the Federal Government. at which doctors will be compelled to nominate However, there was a recognition that those people who have problems with the state of who use semiautomatics in those pursuits will their mental health. However, so far so good; be able to utilise those firearms in national and there has been a great deal of cooperation international pursuits such as in the Olympic from those people, as well as from others. Games and Commonwealth Games. That is a major step forward. Members of approved clubs involved in those The member for Maryborough criticised pursuits will be able to retain semiautomatic the legislation, in particular the aspect of the category C firearms and pump-action Medicare levy being used to buy back guns. shotguns. They can be retained for those That was an initiative of the Federal purposes. That belated recognition should Government. It increased the levy with the have existed in the first place. The member for idea of raising approximately $500m. No-one Mulgrave mentioned also the concerns of knows exactly how much that will raise. those involved in the fishing industry. Those Certainly he served that up to us. concerns relate to occupational needs and no Circumstances and responsibilities with which problems should arise there. we were faced had to be confronted. We As the member for Fitzroy said, he does could not run away. The member for not own a firearm. He is a Vietnam veteran Maryborough said that all guns would be who recognises the damage that firearms can prohibited; of course, we know that that is cause. I have taken on board his criticisms of simply not true. He said that storage would be the legislation. I will not take umbrage at those a severe cost. Storage will be dealt with by comments. Those are the sorts of issues that regulation. That issue will be handled on the we have to work through. I believe that we basis of what is practical and sensible. That can. I believe that we have an obligation to do storage will not involve—as some people that. I am quite happy to work with him. When thought—large, heavy safes. we get to the stage of proclamation and the The member for Mulgrave certainly gave regulations and start to deal with the a more enlightened view than the member practicalities of the legislation, we will be able who preceded her in the debate. I have to resolve a heck of a lot of issues that people 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3693 are still concerned about. I intend to stick with could do without it. Nevertheless, we did what people in that regard so that people who have we were expected to do, that is, listen to been aggrieved will be properly and well and people and take those thoughts and concerns truly accommodated. on board and do the best that we could. I As to the member for Albert, Mr appeal for understanding from all those who Baumann—I have been fully aware of his have been hurt, angered and aggrieved by criticisms and grave concerns for quite some this legislation. I have already mentioned the time. I understand that. He mentioned alternatives with which we were faced. It was possible legal challenges to the legislation and not worth taking such a risk when we could do possibly amendments in the future. I cannot far better by dealing with the issue, difficult comment on future legal challenges, but I can though it was. comment on the fact that this legislation will be I know that the member for Gladstone watched. If anomalies arise, it will be up to all echoed the beliefs of many in the community. of us to ensure that we note them and then As has been stated many times, we were in do something about them. an invidious position. We had to The member for Rockhampton, apart accommodate shooters to the best of our from putting the boot in occasionally as he ability. We also had the difficult balancing act does from time to time, reiterated the genuine of accommodating those in the community concerns of many people. I again suggest to who have a genuine dislike and fear of guns. him, as I do to the member for Fitzroy, that we As I have said before so often, that is not an work closely on the practicalities and sensibility easy task. of making this legislation work. He will always The member for Gladstone mentioned receive a welcome ear from me. that this legislation was really going after and The member for Redlands, Mr Hegarty, making criminals of honest people. That demonstrated his understanding of the issues. certainly is not the intention of members on I believe that he has represented his this side of the Chamber. We understand that constituents well. Problems will arise when the people are aggrieved and that they are going legislation comes into force. The member to experience some inconvenience. That is not raised many of the issues that people had our intention. It is our intention to make sure raised with him. that those people who should not have firearms are dealt with. As we have always The member for Mount Coot-tha gave an said, it is our intention that they be dealt with example of the diversity of issues throughout by the imposition of some very severe the State and also in this House. She brought penalties. another dimension to the debate by reiterating the other side of the issue. I understand that The member for Gladstone mentioned view, because it does exist in the community. the cost of administration and expressed a It epitomises the difficulties associated with the concern that that cost may impact on issue. She mentioned that many women fear operational police. The fact is that that guns and violence, whereas others prefer to $18.25m is there; it is guaranteed. That will be protected. Therein lies the dilemma. pay for the cost of administration. However, if The member for Cunningham expressed the amount of compensation exceeds $500m, concern about decisions being made in the then the Commonwealth Government will heat of the moment. We allowed the revert to the compensation being paid two- legislation to sit on the table of the Parliament thirds by the Commonwealth Government and for as long as possible so that the emotion one-third by the State Government. So we will would die down. We will never forget the just have to watch that figure of $500m. No- people involved in the Port Arthur tragedy, but one knows what the compensation figure is rational thinking needed to prevail. The going to be. member mentioned the scores of meetings The member for Keppel mentioned a held in his electorate and across the State. He referendum. He believes that it would have mentioned that we had to listen because it been carried with disastrous consequences for was very difficult to obtain information from firearm owners. He mentioned the fight that Canberra at that time. We needed to listen to we have had to put up to accommodate as the concerns of as many people as we many people as possible. We certainly have possibly could and the members were able to done that. The member for Keppel mentioned convey people's messages to us. I can assure the threats that have been made to him by all members that that was no fun. The people regarding the next election. I believe member for Cunningham mentioned that that that he has been honest and true and he has was character building. I think that many of us done the only thing that he could do in order 3694 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 to accommodate people as best he could. I words to think that our shooters were going to commend him for that. The member for be handicapped and not be allowed to use Keppel mentioned the fact that the events at those guns. Eventually—and I say to Port Arthur could not be forgotten and that members that it took a long time—we got that throughout the process most people have amendment through. been very responsible. He also said that he The member for Bundaberg mentioned has had very responsive meetings with people that compensation should have covered in his electorate. category A and B firearms. Again, I can only The member for Mount Gravatt agree with him. However, the Commonwealth mentioned the bipartisan support for the Government would not agree with that. We did legislation and the difficulty that all members not know just what this Bill was going to have experienced. As she said, she is the contain and it is not fair that the State has to shadow Minister for Women and, as such, she pick up that sort of compensation. It should expressed her point of view and the points of come from the Commonwealth Government; it view of other women. She also gave relevant is the one that controls the purse strings. statistics relating to suicide and other forms of Again, it is one of those extremely unfortunate violent death. elements of the legislation. The member for Mirani recognised the I want to deal with some other points difficulties experienced by this Government in raised by the member for Bundaberg. He relation to this legislation. Of course, he also mentioned the case of a widow who inherits a recognises the difficulty experienced by those firearm. Yes, that person has to comply with people who are members of centre-fire, the legislation and either get a licence, sell the military-style rifle clubs. All I can do is agree gun to a dealer, or hand it in. That is the way with him. We tried very, very hard to the legislation works. However, this legislation accommodate those people and there was allows for amnesties to cater for people who just no give from the Commonwealth innocently and honestly want to get rid of a Government on that at all. Yet as we know, firearm by just handing it in. along with trap shooters and clay shooters, The member for Bundaberg mentioned those people are probably the most the physical fitness aspect of the licensing responsible of all shooters. However, I believe requirements. People are not going to be that they have been discriminated against. ruled out of owning a gun because they have The member for Archerfield mentioned a deformity. We understand that those people historical enactments and that there was a can use, will use and want to use genuine need for regulation in relation to the semiautomatic shotguns. We have been able Moreton Bay Regiment. That is a genuine to retain permission for those people to use need, and that regiment will be able to use guns. It is just a question of being careful with ammunition for its re-enactments. That them. If they are going to be using heavy regulation applies also to any other firearms that would, in fact, inflict some organisation that falls into that historical damage to them, it is a case of trying to category. protect them. That is all it is. The member for Broadwater mentioned The member for Bundaberg mentioned the listening process, which the coalition went hunting tours. Firstly, people from overseas in for. There is no doubt that we certainly can apply for a visitor's licence. They do not copped an ear full—and we knew that we have to bring their firearms; they can apply for would—while we were seeking more a visitor's licence for a three-month period and information from the Commonwealth go on those particular tours. If those people Government. He mentioned the category C do not have a licence, they can apply for a pump-action shotguns, which are in the same visitor's licence for that period. If they have a category as automatic shotguns—and they licence, that is okay. Similarly, Queenslanders should have been. Although those guns are in can go on those hunting tours. They do have category C, I can say that both firearms will be to have a licence, but they do not have to eligible for use on approved ranges for trap have the firearm. So they can apply for a shooting. I refer to national and international licence. They can say, "That is what I want to sporting pursuits. Quite obviously, other do. I want a licence to go on a tour." The countries use these sorts of firearms when licence is for recreational use, so those people they participate in the Olympic Games, the qualify to obtain one. Commonwealth Games and international The member for Bundaberg mentioned shooting competitions. It is too stupid for paint-ball guns. They are covered under the 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3695 provisions of the Bill which relate to shooting Committee galleries. Unlicensed persons can use paint- Hon T. R. Cooper (Crows Nest—Minister ball equipment within the confines of shooting for Police and Corrective Services and Minister galleries. The member mentioned the for Racing) in charge of the Bill. circumstance of people obtaining a licence and a permit at the same time. Yes, people Clauses 1 to 4, as read, agreed to. can have both. There is a 28-day period in Clause 5— which people have to wait to get a licence, Mr COOPER (5.03 p.m.): I move the and the same period for a permit. So those following amendment— people who are licensed can transfer over to having a permit free of cost. They will qualify "At page 9, line 13, after 'and'— for their licence and then they have to list their insert— firearms. Again, that is free of cost. 'automatic and self-loading'." Mr Campbell: A new licensed owner takes 56 days before they can actually get a Amendment agreed to. gun. Clause 5, as amended, agreed to. Mr COOPER: Yes, the 28-day period, Clause 6— yes. I thank all members for their contributions. Mr BARTON (5.04 p.m.): I seek some Mr Speaker, as you pointed out in your own clarification from the Minister. On page 11, the speech—— Bill provides a definition of "landowner". I am a Mr Palaszczuk interjected. little concerned about what an owner of rural land means and the meaning of, as stated in Mr COOPER: I thought that the the Bill— member was one of the brighter members opposite. Did the member not hear his "a person authorised by the owner or speech? Is the member going deaf, or occupier to act on the owner's or something? occupier's behalf in the general management or control of land." Mr PALASZCZUK: I rise to a point of order. Mr Speaker, for the edification of the I raised this issue in my speech in the second- Honourable the Minister, the point I am reading debate and I am sure that the Minister making to him is that he cannot refer to is familiar with it. yourself as the "Speaker". Mr Speaker, you Advertisements have appeared in some spoke as the member for Nicklin. Does the newspapers and, I am advised, in some Minister understand that now? shooters magazines which go to the heart of Mr COOPER: I thank the member for the issue of people collectively purchasing the edification. I appreciate it deeply. As I say, land so that they can say that they are I appreciate the efforts of everyone who legitimate landowners for the purposes of spoke. They expressed points of view across holding licences. We are concerned that this the entire spectrum. I appeal to people in this may allow for inappropriate land to be place and elsewhere to assist the people out purchased or may simply give some innovative there and, if they are going to experience real estate agents a capacity to sell land that difficulties at all, to make sure that we can they are having trouble selling. Are there resolve those difficulties as quickly as we mechanisms in the Bill that can adequately possibly can so that we can ensure a smooth cover that situation? I know it may well be changeover and people can get on with the covered by the regulations, but I would like the pursuits that they like doing best, be it Minister's response on whether, in his view, occupational shooting, rural or recreational the definition is adequate to prevent pursuits, trap and target shooting or sporting inappropriate land being purchased for that shooting. I hope that we can get on with the reason—a concern that I know he has also job to make the very best that we can out of expressed. this legislation and to make it work. I thank all Mr COOPER: I take on board the of those speakers who contributed to this comments of the honourable member for debate. Waterford. Firstly, I will comment on the issue Question—That the Bill be now read a of the definition of "landowner" and then I will second time—put; and the House divided. turn to that of "rural land". As stated in the Bill, There being fewer than five members "landowner" means— voting in the negative, resolved in the "(a) the owner or occupier of the rural affirmative under Standing Order 148. land; or 3696 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996

(b) a person authorised by the owner or ' "temporary protection order" means a occupier . . ." temporary protection order under the Paragraph (b) refers to a manager and so on. Domestic Violence (Family Protection) Act That clause is okay because it refers to either 1989, section 3, and includes an the owner of the land or the occupier. We interstate domestic violence order have deliberately stated that— corresponding to a temporary protection order.'. " 'rural land' means land other than land situated in any city or town or, in the case At page 12, after line 9— of a shire, any township in the shire." insert— Obviously, it is land outside those areas. We did not specify the number of hectares or '(c) a thing that would be a weapon acres, because even on five or 10-acre blocks mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b), if it people may have vineyards or fruit farms and were not temporarily inoperable or do require a firearm of some description in incomplete;'. order to look after their crops. They must have At page 12, lines 10 and 11, from that ability. 'ammunition' (first mention) to 'or'— I think that the real cause of the omit. honourable member's concern is the fact that, in order to be able to get a licence for a At page 12, after line 20— firearm, one needs a letter from someone, insert— thereby enabling access to a licence. Of course, at this point we simply do not know '(4) Section 3, definition "major whether there will be thousands of people component part", after 'body,'— writing letters to allow people to get licences insert— through their places. Quite obviously, we will keep an eye on that to see that it is not 'barrel'.'." abused. Again, we say that honest-to- Amendments agreed to. goodness, decent people are innocent until found otherwise. Therefore, if a letter is a Clause 6, as amended, agreed to. means of getting a licence, we want to ensure Clause 7, as read, agreed to. that those people are accommodated for as best we possibly can. We will keep an eye on Clause 8— that. Mr BARTON (5.08 p.m.): I may need I move the following amendments— some indulgence from yourself, Mr Chairman, "At page 10, line 27, 'interstate order and a bit of patience from the Minister, under that Act'— because a large number of issues go to clause 8 which, in fact, is the great bulk of the omit, insert— Bill itself. I will go through the issues in clause 'interstate domestic violence order'. 8 one by one, because although they are all At page 11, after line 7— contained in the one clause it may become difficult for the Minister to keep tabs on them. insert— ' "interstate domestic violence order" The first issue that I raise is at page 14, means an interstate order under the line 2, which states that the age limitation on Domestic Violence (Family Protection) Act the issue of a minor's licence is 11 years. 1989, section 3, whether or not the Some concern has been expressed to me and interstate order is registered under that other members of the Opposition, and also Act.'. publicly, that an 11-year-old is a little too young to receive a licence. It would be helpful At page 11, line 13, after 'a licence'— if the Minister could explain to the Committee insert— why Queensland has adopted 11 years for the 'continued,'. limitation on the issuing of a minor's licence, when most other States have adopted a At page 11, line 25, 'means'— higher age limit? omit, insert— The next issue I raise is found at page 14, 'includes'. lines 5, 6 and 7, regarding adequate At page 12, after line 4— knowledge of safety practices. How will this be insert— determined, because that is not totally clear from the Bill? I take it that the police weapons 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3697 branch will be making decisions on the criteria Mr BARTON: After the last 24 hours, I that authorised officers will use to determine am not sure that I can. that a licence applicant has adequate Mr T. B. Sullivan: Ever the optimist. knowledge. Mr BARTON: I am ever the optimist. The next issue I wish to raise is also on page 14, at lines 8, 9 and 10, and concerns I move on to line 11 on page 17. The key access to secure storage. The Minister words in respect of gaining a licence are "proof commented in his response that there would of identity to the satisfaction of an authorised not be any horrendous provisions. I forget the officer". This is an issue that has been raised exact words the Minister used, but I think he with me by a number of organisations. Some said that they would be sensible but of them have indicated to me that the issue, adequate. I must ask: what constitutes secure rather than focusing on leaving the discretion storage? How will that be determined? Is it with an authorised officer, goes to the intended that there will be inspections in all or question of who an authorised officer is. I only some circumstances? I ask the Minister to presume it is an officer of the police weapons provide some more detail on that issue. The division. But there is discretion in terms of the next issue I raise goes to line 12 on page 15. word "satisfaction" in that phrase. It has been suggested that it might be better to use Mr Elliott: Are you moving off that something like the bank system, which clause? I would like to speak. requires 100 points of identification to prove Mr BARTON: The difficulty is that clause identity, rather than leaving it as a matter of 8 is literally two-thirds of the Bill. Maybe the discretion. Chairman can help me. I would rather debate The next matter I wish to draw the them one by one, but I cannot think of a Minister's attention to goes to line 1 on page better way to do it. We have to put it all on the 18, and the inspection of secure storage deck, even though it may ultimately become facilities. I probably raised this matter when I confusing. canvassed the first issue. There is a concern Line 12 on page 15 relates to the mental about whether this provision will allow entry to and physical fitness of the person. This is an private homes. Again, I think it is one of the issue that has caused not only some concern issues that has been raised by the Scrutiny of among constituents and people who have Legislation Committee. That is a double- raised it with the Opposition but also among edged sword in some circumstances. Similarly, some of the shooting organisations that have if we go to lines 14, 15, 16 and 17, which state had discussions with me. I understand—and that identifying particulars may be used, which this may be the interest of the member for I understand means fingerprints, I understand Cunningham—that the Scrutiny of Legislation the Scrutiny of Legislation Committee has Committee has also raised some issues some concerns about that issue. Also, related to that. I seek some clarification of this according to line 27, the police have to return issue. It is my understanding that it is to the applicant any identifying particular essentially related to the prohibited persons obtained in the course of inquiries into the register, although it is not described as such. application. There does not appear to be a That is an issue we have some concerns time limit for that return. That is an issue raised about, and I would like some explanation of it. by the Scrutiny of Legislation Committee. The next issue relates to line 8 on page I draw the Minister's attention to the next 16, which states "another reason prescribed point. I am not belabouring the point, because under a regulation". This relates to the it has been raised by the Scrutiny of genuine reasons for possession of a weapon. Legislation Committee. As to lines 13 to 17 on It is my understanding that this is the catch-all page 19—the Scrutiny of Legislation phrase that is intended to allow for category D Committee has indicated that it could be an weapons to be held by rural producers in insufficiently defined administrative power. It is particular. The concern that has been my understanding that discretion is being expressed to me is that essentially this term is given to the police weapons division. The a little too broad. I understand that there may Scrutiny of Legislation Committee has left that be a necessity for a broad clause, but my issue up to the Parliament to determine. I question goes to the concern about how this simply draw attention to that matter and seek provision will be interpreted to ensure that it the Minister's response. does not become just a catch-all clause that Similarly, in clause 8, at lines 7 and 8 on could allow the police weapons division to give page 20, firstly, a person is permitted under people a licence for any reason at all. the licence to use the firearm, or the weapon, Mr FitzGerald: Trust us. for any lawful purpose. I take it that this is one 3698 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996 of the provisions that would mean that, if a requirement has come back to being very person legitimately has a weapons licence, practical and sensible. that person is able to use the firearm for a Mr Elliott: Will the old style one with a purpose other than the reason they have holder and bar be all right? given for wanting to hold a firearm or holding a licence. Similarly, as to lines 9, 10, and 11 of Mr COOPER: That is approvable. page 20—I understand that those two As to inspections—we have heard a fair sentences are intended to cover the positions bit about that. People have claimed that a under the Criminal Code where people do use stormtrooper is going to come and knock a firearm for personal defence or in the down the door. That cannot happen. Privacy defence of family members or property. Again, has been protected, in that there must be I indicate that that provision is a double-edged mutual consent as to when an inspection can sword. It does give people that legal defence, take place. So privacy is being respected in but it also means that some people could use that regard. But to answer the member's firearms for other reasons. question about whether they can be Time expired. inspected—the answer is: yes, by mutual arrangement. The CHAIRMAN: Order! It may be easier for the Minister to respond to those As to mental and physical fitness—I questions now, otherwise it might get a bit believe that I answered that during my reply to confusing. the second-reading debate. The provision relating to physical fitness is purely for the Mr COOPER: I did not catch a couple of protection of the person. If a person is one- points, but I will start with the issue of the age armed but can still use a firearm, they of 11 years being applicable to a minor's probably would not be able to use a fairly high- licence. That provision was introduced in the powered .303 or something like that. This is legislation of members opposite back in 1990. only for their own protection. If they want to It has been there for quite a while and it is become a member of a club or whatever, it accepted. does not prevent them from having a firearm Mr Elliott: Will anyone else on the and a licence. The mental fitness side of property have to have a licence for the minor things relates to the psychiatric records to to get a licence? which police do have access. That is one of Mr COOPER: Yes, they do. However, the reasons for this provision: they are trying to that person has to be in control of that minor, keep a check on those who simply should not be it on the range, the property or whatever. have firearms. The idea is that, in allowing younger people to In referring to the genuine reasons for learn to use a firearm, they will gain a greater possession of a weapon, the member respect for them. The APMC wanted to set the mentioned the line containing the words age at 14 years. We believe that the age of "another reason prescribed under a 11 years has worked and so we are retaining regulation". He was concerned that that would that provision. This was one of the rare be used as a catch-all to allow anyone and instances when they said that we could have everyone in. It is just there for the weapons our way. registry and in the regulations in case there As to the issue of the practicality of are instances in which a person can genuinely storage and inspections—and the member indicate that they have a right to a licence. So can correct me if I have missed his point—in rather than say, "Boom, it is just cut off here", most respects we are talking about either a it does allow for those other reasons that may wooden or steel lockable container fixed to a exist, but again under the tight control of the wall so that it cannot be removed. The rifles weapons registry. and other firearms are kept inside it and Mr FitzGerald: Subject to the approval ammunition is stored separately. I have that at of this House. home. I have a lockable wooden cabinet with Mr COOPER: Subject to the approval of firearms inside. I have separate drawers which this Parliament through regulations, which are are also lockable in which ammunition is tabled and which can be dissented from. stored. As to proof of identity—police are Mr Schwarten: So in other words it is experienced in this area. They have been the same compliance as the previous Act. doing it for yonks. The member raised the idea Mr COOPER: More or less, that is right. of using something like the 100-point People were concerned that they would be identification system used by banks. Other required to have large, heavy safes. The States might use that. The police have had 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3699 experience; they simply do not need that to be register a .22 on one licence, a .303 on a able to prove identity. It should not be different one, a .243 on another one, and so forgotten that that is appealable by the person the list goes on. Each one of those licences concerned. will cost $50. So if a person has 20 firearms, The member mentioned the inspection of they will be up for $1,000, next year it will be storage facilities and whether this will allow $2,000, and so it will go on until everybody will entry to private homes. I believe that I have have to give them up anyway. I really believe it answered that. He mentioned the Criminal would be remiss of us to leave this debate Code and referred to page 20, sections 12 (1) without that point being clarified. I understand, and (2), "Uses permitted under licence". The of course, that it is subject to regulation, but I member is right. If a person has a firearm think that we need to nip that one in the bud through any of those reasons for having a forthwith. licence and they use it in self-defence, that is Mr PEARCE: I want to raise a couple of lawful, as they say. But the same conditions points. I hope that the Minister will bear with which currently apply—and which have applied me. Constituents have raised these points with for a while now—under the Criminal Code will me, and I have an obligation to raise them in continue to apply. this place on their behalf. I hope that the The next point relates to page 19, clause Minister will understand why I am doing it and 10(4), lines 13 to 17, which concerns the ability be sympathetic in his response to what I am of an authorised officer to impose conditions. going to put to him. It is necessary because it is impossible to I refer to page 16 and the section titled prescribe all possible conditions which might "Genuine reasons for possession of a be placed on a licence. The legislation simply weapon". I wish to raise a point on behalf of cannot list all of the possibilities. It then those people who, for one reason or another, becomes necessary to leave the application of do not have a genuine reason for possession conditions to the authorised officer, who will of a firearm as set out in this section. If they decide whether any conditions are necessary do not have a genuine reason for possession on a case-by-case basis. of a weapon and, because of other reasons, Mr SCHWARTEN: I rise to reiterate a want to retain the firearms in their possession point that I made in the second-reading and are caught in possession of a firearm, debate. While the Honourable the Minister they will be—naturally—in contravention of the Act. While I agree with the penalties for failure accused me earlier of sinking the boot into to comply with the licence provisions of the him—— Act, I have real problems with a person of Mr Cooper: You do occasionally. good character being charged with an offence Mr SCHWARTEN: I do from time to under the Act for non-compliance. We could time, but I thought that I was pretty modest have a situation in which a person of good towards him on this particular occasion. In fact, character—a family man or woman who has I think I was even a bit gratuitous in my praise no record and no intention to become a for him. Perhaps next time I will think better of criminal—is charged with a criminal offence it, seeing that praise is not forthcoming from simply because the Act does not permit the the other side in this spirit of goodwill. person to possess a firearm. My point—which the Minister obviously did Before the legislation passes through this not pick up on and which I obviously did not place, I ask the Minister to give a commitment make eloquently or loudly enough—was that in some way—I do not know how he is going the overwhelming concern that people now to do it—that a person who is caught in are pervading around the traps is that the possession of a banned firearm and not registry will be a tool by which Government will licensed in accordance with the Act and who is effectively price people out of the market. I of good character with no history of criminal referred yesterday to the lunatic fringe of the activity or violent behaviour be issued with gun lobby, which is by and large controlled by some sort of notice to comply within a the League of Rights. It seems to have done prescribed period to either get a licence or to very well on that particular issue. I have hand in a firearm and not have a charge received many letters, not just from my registered against them. I think it is constituents but also from other people who unreasonable that decent people could be are legitimately concerned about this issue. charged with an offence simply through being They are frightened out of their wits that the ignorant—— Government will make a person individually Mr Elliott: Quite a few people out there register each firearm, so they will have to still don't understand it. 3700 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996

Mr PEARCE: I thank the member for but the Minister knows as well as I do—and so that support, because that is where I am would other members in this place—that from coming from. It is unreasonable that decent time to time there will be officers who, for one people could be charged simply through being reason or another, simply bastardise the ignorant of the Act and its requirements. The process. What protection is there for an public perception is that this legislation applicant who does not get a fair go? Where addresses only the banning of semiautomatic does the applicant go to appeal the process military-style rifles. I was very strong in trying to and who would assess the appeal? I would stress that point yesterday. The Prime hope that it would not be another police Minister, the Minister and the media have not officer. really made that point very clear: what we are talking about are a wide range of firearms and Under subclause (f), the officer must not simply semiautomatic military-style make a report about the applicant or weapons. I ask the Minister to give this matter application and under subclause (g) the officer serious consideration and to give a fair go to must make a recommendation about the the good people of Queensland who could be applicant the officer thinks appropriate. The hurt by this legislation. inclusion of these two subclauses strengthens my argument for an appeal process because I I have another point. It appears on page am of the opinion that they are also open to 17 under the section titled "Inquiries into abuse. Most police are genuine and fair application". I have some real concerns here. dinkum and are there to try to do the right Mr FitzGerald: What line were you on? thing, but there are a few who could make life pretty difficult for people living in towns, Mr PEARCE: I am talking about particularly small country towns. Let us face it, inquiries into applications. The Bill states— this sort of thing happens in all walks of life. It "Before the application is decided, an happens in this place here; some people will officer in charge of police or authorised go out of their way to help other members, officer with whom an application for a while others who, because they do not like licence is lodged may"— somebody, will make life difficult for that member. There is a need to protect those and I repeat the word "may" require the disadvantaged by officers not acting in the applicant to give further information. It is there spirit of the Bill. There needs to be a right of in front of the Minister, I am sure he does not appeal to an independent body outside of the want me to read it. I am most concerned that Police Service, and probably outside the local this clause of the Bill is open to abuse, community, which would take away the risk of particularly in country towns where everyone any abuse. We need to retain the right of an knows everyone else's business. Last applicant to be given a fair go. I thank the weekend, I spoke to a couple of police officers Minister for taking those matters on board. in New South Wales about this and they felt that the points I have raised are very genuine Mr COOPER: The member for concerns, and I believe that they should be Rockhampton mentioned registering, which is raised here. In small country towns, friendships a very hot issue and I am fully aware of the can begin and end on simple words of cost of that registration. Those people who disagreement. If for one reason or another a already have licences will have their licences police officer gets off side with a local transferred over free of cost. They would have resident—and I can see that happening in already paid their $40. I know that initially that some circumstances—some people applying $40 was for life, but this legislation provides for for a licence may be disadvantaged because the registration of a weapon for five years. So of their personal relationship with the police we said that the least we could do was to officer or authorised officer. make that free of charge. People have asked about the cost of registering each firearm and Mr Elliott: You are spot on. I have heard some horrendous figures Mr PEARCE: I thank the member for his mentioned. Those with existing licences will support. Subclause (b) in particular could have their licences transferred over free of become very embarrassing and distressing for charge, so there is no charge on them. A an applicant who, because of the attitude of licence for a new firearm carries a $40 charge. the officer, will have to seek out and provide Mr Schwarten: An additional firearm. medical evidence relevant to that applicant's physical or mental health. There would be Mr COOPER: An additional one. It is occasion where the actions of the officer would the same cost as the cost for a handgun be justified, and I certainly would support that, under category H, that is, $15. 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3701

Mr Schwarten: So in other words, there know what they can have; we do not want to will be one register and there will be one fee dwell on the negative stuff. We want them to for all firearms? know what they can have, how they go about Mr COOPER: Individual firearms. it and what they have to do to take away their worry and anxiety. That is how that program is Mr Schwarten: So if you have 10 to be designed. It will begin soon—maybe late firearms, it will be $150? November or early December—and it will run Mr COOPER: Yes. The member for through to September 1997. Fitzroy raised some very valid points which have already been raised during my An honourable member interjected. involvement with this legislation. I will go back Mr COOPER: But I cannot direct the to page 16, which talks about the genuine weapons registry to take it easy. It has to reasons for possession of a weapon. It is enforce the Act as such, but I have said that probably easier to discuss the circumstances amnesties can be implemented from time to in which a person is eligible for possession of a time. A public education program is vital. I weapon. When it comes to normal, single- understand that it has been very difficult to get barrelled, double-barrelled shotguns, the that information. However, we must display unders and overs, the .22—category A and some commonsense in the implementation of category B weapons—again, all a person this Bill. I guess that that is as far as I can go. needs is a letter with permission to use a We have often talked about how vicious some firearm or to join a club. I know that that might people are going to be in the implementation be inconvenient for some people, but at least of this legislation. they can be eligible for a five-year licence; they should not have any trouble getting that at all. The member for Fitzroy mentioned the I think the member was talking about the .22 matter of inquiries into applications—line 24. behind the door. The member was worried about police being vindictive in their local area. I have heard Mr Pearce: Yes. those sorts of complaints and I understand Mr COOPER: Again, it is very obvious. I that that could happen. If a person has been can only repeat that, while it may be knocked back, he or she can appeal to a inconvenient, those people can still receive a magistrate. That condition applies now under letter from a rural landowner which gives them the existing Act and it will apply after this Bill permission to shoot on their property. That amends the Act. If a person does have does not mean that that person has to shoot problems in that regard and if a police officer on that landowner's property, it means that has been found wanting, then that police that person can shoot anywhere in the State, officer will be dealt with through the normal provided, of course, that that person has the processes of police discipline and conduct. usual permission. That does entitle those Police officers and authorised officers have to people to a five-year licence. That was a worry be very careful that they act fairly in that that some people had. They could join an regard. I know that that situation could happen approved club, and this Bill does not say that under the existing Act, but we will continue to those people have to shoot at that particular provide the appeal provisions that already club or on that particular range; it does not exist. mean that at all. If the club has different rules, that is the club's business. Under this Bill, that Mr Elliott: Is your $15 for each weapon, does give those people the genuine reason to then an additional $15 as it goes? For every own a firearm. weapon it is $15? Mr Schwarten: Any sort of firearm? Mr RADKE: I have some questions for Mr COOPER: Not the banned ones. the Minister in relation to clause 8 on page 16 under "Licences". I refer particularly to Mr Pearce: The point is that if a person licence (j). Some of my constituents are is caught with one of those firearms—— manufacturers of precision bullets. I will not Mr COOPER: I am coming to that. I will discuss how they make a bullet, but they are cover the other concerns raised by the concerned about the sale of the bullets. I member. Firstly, there is the amnesty through understand that the amendments remove the to the end of September 1997. People have word "ammunition". Those people make the that period, and during that time there will be a bullets at home, and then they sell them at pretty extensive public education program. ranges on Sundays. I want to get it clarified for That might cover most of the points raised. those people who make precision bullets that The idea is to try to make it effective and they will still be able to sell to clients on a Queensland-flavoured. We want to let people range on a Sunday. That is the first issue. 3702 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996

The second issue relates to beekeepers. Mr Veivers: That is not annually. Beekeepers often do not own land, but they at Mr COOPER: No. least own a .410 shotgun, and they use it to blast the blossom out of the gum trees to see Mr PURCELL: I wish to clarify a point how far advanced it is. What reason do they that the member for Fitzroy raised and in have to give to own a weapon? which I am quite interested. When the Act comes into effect after September next year, Mr COOPER: The member for persons caught with a firearm in their Cunningham had a query. I want members to possession will be charged under the Act. I be clear about the transfer from a current know that a lot of old utes that get around in licence to a new licence. That is to be free of the scrub have a couple of racks welded in charge to those people who already have behind the back seat, where rifles are usually licences. Under this register, the transfer for kept for killing stock that are injured or for those who already have firearms is to be free killing vermin or something like that. One of of charge. For a person applying for a new those utes may be sold, the rifles may be sold licence, the charge is the same—$40. The with the ute, and the person who buys it may registration fee per firearm is to be $15. not know about the rifles. Under this Mr Elliott: In five years' time there will legislation, that person would be charged, and only be another $40. You will not keep there would be no right of appeal against that charging the additional $15? charge. That person is inadvertently in Mr COOPER: No, it is only for every possession of that firearm and, technically, is additional firearm. in breach of the Act. That person would be charged as a criminal and convicted through As to the production and sale of no fault of his own. What recourse is there for ammunition—as the member would realise, people who are caught in those sorts of the word "ammunition" is being removed by situations? Probably hundreds of utes in the some of these amendments. That will now scrub would have those racks fitted so that come under the Explosives Act. No doubt the people can keep rifles in them. Or someone people about whom the member for may buy an old house in the scrub, and there Greenslopes has spoken would be licensed may be a rifle in the shed, in the ceiling, or under the Explosives Act. As such, nothing wherever. If, for some reason, there is a changes. search of that house and a rifle is found, what Mr Radke: The point is that they do not happens to those sorts of people? make the case. They don't actually have any Mr COOPER: This is a similar situation explosives. They are only manufacturing the to that mentioned by the member for projectile, and they sell the projectile as an Bundaberg. He spoke about a person dying accessory. It comes under "accessory" in the and the weapon then being in the possession Act. So they are selling accessories on a of his widow, for example, and the widow not range. having a licence. The same situation would Mr COOPER: No problem. The member apply to a person who has bought a vehicle also mentioned beekeepers and a .410 rifle. with a firearm in it. That person has to comply Again, that is an occupational issue. As with with the Act. In other words, the person would the fisheries people and others, if they have have to get a licence or sell it. an occupational reason, they will be all right. Mr Purcell: But they might not even Mr SCHWARTEN: I seek clarification know it is there. about a registry. Let me use the hypothetical Mr COOPER: I think they would find out situation of somebody who currently has a sooner or later. They just have to comply with licence and owns 20 firearms. What would that the Act. They either dispose of it, or they person pay? comply with the Act and get a licence. Mr Cooper: Nothing. Mr CAMPBELL: I also refer to Mr SCHWARTEN: What will that person "Licences" on page 16, particularly a minor's pay in five years' time? licence. In reply to another question the Minister said that the minor could have a Mr COOPER: The same thing. For the licence only if there was a licensed person on licence it will be $40, or whatever the price is at the property. My concern is that, in some the time. The transfer is to be free of charge cases, an under-age person has been given a for five years. In five years' time, those people driver's licence in extenuating circumstances. will be required to pay that $40, but not to For example, if a husband dies, his widow register them. Those firearms are already cannot drive and she lives miles from town, registered. she can go to the local police inspector and, in 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3703 extenuating circumstances, get a driver's Queensland or elsewhere within the licence. I understand that a minor's licence preceding 5 years— applies until the age of 18. What about a (a) the person has been convicted situation in which the adult of a family does of, or discharged from custody not want to get a licence? Technically, that on sentence after the person adult's son should not have or be given a has been convicted of, any of minor's licence. Can the Minister appreciate the following offences— that extenuating circumstance? (i) an offence relating to the Mr COOPER: I am not sure that I do. misuse of drugs; So far as the driver's licence is concerned, the Traffic Act is not taken into account. (ii) an offence involving the use or threatened use of Mr CAMPBELL: I understand that. violence; However, are there going to be extenuating circumstances in which a minor will be able to (iii) an offence involving the get a minor's licence for a gun when there is use, carriage, discharge or no adult who has a firearms licence on the possession of firearms; or property? That is my concern. I know that this (b) a domestic violence order, other has happened in regard to getting a driver's than a temporary protection licence. Is the Minister saying that, in this order, has been made against circumstance, there should not be a gun on the person.'. that property? There are some responsible 15, At page 16, line 7, 'firearms'— 16 and 17-year-olds who should be able to omit, insert— have a gun to shoot snakes and things like that. 'weapons'. Mr COOPER: I am afraid that if there is At page 16, line 13, '(ammunition),'— no adult on that property, the minor cannot omit. have a licence and cannot shoot. At page 16, after line 16— Mr CAMPBELL: I ask the Minister to insert— consider some extenuating circumstances. I believe that there could be a situation in which '(fa) firearms licence (instructor);'. a widow on a property does not like guns and At page 16, line 18, ', (guard) or will not have a gun, but a responsible son (instructor)'— should be able to get a licence. omit, insert— Mr COOPER: There are extenuating 'or (guard)'. circumstances in that regard. I move the following amendments— At page 16, line 22, 'and ammunition'— "At page 14, lines 9 and 26, 'or the ammunition'— omit. omit. At page 16, line 23, '50A,'— At page 15, lines 5 and 6— omit. omit, insert— At page 18, line 2, 'or the ammunition'— '(a) a course in safety training for omit. weapons approved by the commissioner; or'. At page 19, line 6, 'possible'— At page 15, line 7, 'or (instructor)'— omit, insert— omit. 'practicable'. At page 15, lines 13 and 14— At page 19, line 10, 'or holds a licence'— omit, insert— omit. '(b) whether a domestic violence order has been made against At page 19, line 16, after 'use'— the person; and'. insert— At page 15, lines 19 to 26— 'or possession'. omit, insert— At page 19, lines 22 and 28, 'or '(6) However, a person is not a fit and ammunition'— proper person to hold a licence if, in omit. 3704 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996

At page 19, line 26, '(instructor) or'— At page 27, line 31, 'under the omit. licence'— At page 23, lines 11 to 14— omit. omit, insert— At page 28, line 9, 'and may be '(a) the licensee's or the licensee's made to a officer in charge of police'. representative's circumstances omit, insert— change from those given by the 'in the way prescribed under a licensee or representative in regulation'. support of an application under section 8 or 24M; At page 30, lines 2 and 3, 'and ammunition'— (b) the licensee or the licensee's representative is convicted of an omit. offence mentioned in section At page 32, lines 26 to 29, and page 5(6)(a) or has become the 33, lines 1 to 12— subject of an order mentioned in omit. section 5(6)(b);'. At page 34, lines 27 and 28— At page 23, line 22, after 'licensee's'— omit, insert— insert— '(b) whether a domestic violence order has been made against 'or a licensee's representative's'. the person; and'. At page 25, lines 15 to 22— At page 37, line 14, 'possible'— omit, insert— omit, insert— 'licensee— 'practicable'." (a) has been charged with an offence against any law in force Amendments agreed to. in Queensland or elsewhere— Clause 8, as amended, agreed to. (i) relating to the misuse of Clause 9— drugs; or Mr COOPER (5.49 p.m.): I move the (ii) involving the use or following amendments— threatened use of violence; "At page 40, lines 15, 16 and 17, 'or or ammunition'— (iii) involving the use, carriage, discharge or possession of omit. firearms; or At page 40, lines 21 and 22, '(other (b) is temporarily unable to comply than ammunition)'— with a condition of the licence. omit. '(2) The licence is suspended until— At page 40, lines 27 to 29— (a) if subsection (1)(a) applies— omit, insert— (i) the proceeding for the 'Limitation on organised target shooting charge ends; or '25A. Unless otherwise authorised by (ii) the suspension is lifted by this Act, a person may conduct organised an authorised officer; or target shooting only on an approved (b) if subsection (1)(b) applies—the range. authorised officer is satisfied the Maximum penalty—20 penalty units or 6 licensee is able to comply with months imprisonment.'." the condition. Amendments agreed to. (3) If a licensee whose licence is Clause 9, as amended, agreed to. suspended under this section holds a permit to acquire, the permit is also Insertion of new clauses— suspended.'. Mr COOPER (5.49 p.m.): I move the At page 27, line 1, after 'licence'— following amendment— insert— "At page 40, after line 29— 'and any relevant permit to acquire'. insert— 30 Oct 1996 Weapons Amendment Bill 3705

'Amendment of s 30 (Discharge of At page 44, lines 6 to 12 and 19 to weapon on private land without owner's 21— consent prohibited) omit. '9A. Section 30(1), definition At page 45, lines 5 to 7— "weapon", 'a spear gun'— omit." omit, insert— Amendments agreed to. 'an antique firearm, spear gun'. Clause 16, as amended, agreed to. 'Amendment of s 31 (Particular conduct involving a weapon in a public place Clause 17— prohibited) Mr COOPER (5.52 p.m.): I move the '9B. Section 31(1), definition following amendment— "weapon", paragraph (a), 'a spear gun'— "At page 45, line 16, 'weapon'— omit, insert— omit, insert— 'an antique firearm, spear gun'. 'weapon,'." 'Amendment of s 33 (Possession or use Amendment agreed to. of weapon under the influence of liquor or Clause 17, as amended, agreed to. a drug prohibited) Clauses 18 and 19, as read, agreed to. '9C. Section 33(1), definition "weapon", paragraph (a), 'a spear gun'— Insertion of new clause— omit, insert— Mr COOPER (5.53 p.m.): I move the following amendment— 'an antique firearm, spear gun'.'." "At page 46, after line 10— Amendment agreed to. insert— New clauses 9A, 9B and 9C, as read, agreed to. 'Amendment of s 92 (Conditions of approval) Clauses 10 and 11, as read, agreed to. '19A.(1) Section 92(1)(b) and (c)— Clause 12— omit. Mr COOPER (5.50 p.m.): I move the following amendment— '(2) Section 92(2), '(b), (c) and (d) do'— "At page 42, line 17, 'to another person'— omit, insert— omit." '(d) does'.'." Amendment agreed to. Amendment agreed to. Clause 12, as amended, agreed to. New clause 19A, as read, agreed to. Clause 13, as read, agreed to. Clause 20— Clause 14— Mr COOPER (5.53 p.m.): I move the following amendment— Mr COOPER (5.51 p.m.): I move the following amendment— "At page 46, line 19, after 'sale,'— "At page 43, line 4, 'in'— insert— omit, insert— 'supply,'." 'on'." Amendment agreed to. Amendment agreed to. Clause 20, as amended, agreed to. Clause 14, as amended, agreed to. Clauses 21 and 22, as read, agreed to. Clause 15, as read, agreed to. Clause 23— Clause 16— Mr COOPER (5.54 p.m.): I move the following amendment— Mr COOPER (5.51 p.m.): I move the following amendments— "At page 48, lines 27 to 29— "At page 44, line 3, 'ss 50A–50C'— omit." omit, insert— Amendment agreed to. 'ss 50B and 50C'. Clause 23, as amended, agreed to. 3706 Weapons Amendment Bill 30 Oct 1996

Clause 24, as read, agreed to. Will people who are holding illegal automatic Clause 25— rifles be compensated? Given that those weapons have been illegal for approximately Mr COOPER (5.54 p.m.): I move the 22 years, will we spend money to compensate following amendment— criminals? "At page 50, lines 10 to 15— Mr COOPER: No, I am afraid not. omit." Mr ELLIOTT: In respect of category A Amendment agreed to. and B weapons, for which people are not Clause 25, as amended, agreed to. eligible for compensation, have any Clauses 26— discussions been held with the Commonwealth in respect of those people Mr BARTON (5.55 p.m.): I refer to page who are going to hand in guns because they 50, lines 19, 20, 21 and 22, which provide that will not be able to get a licence? The fact is landowners face no liability if they give that the market for those guns will collapse. permission for a person to shoot on their property. This goes to the point of whether or Mr COOPER: I take the point. That has not permission may be given on dangerous been a bone of contention right from the properties. I point out the importance of outset in relation to categories A and B, officers of the police weapons division because they are not so-called illegal or watching closely where permission is given. If banned and do not qualify for compensation. a landowner gives permission for people to We took that case very hard. As I said before, shoot on a property that is totally unsuitable we were not successful. The Commonwealth for shooting, that person has protection from would not budge. Those people have only liability under this provision, yet it could be a those outlets. They can either apply for a rort of the system. I would like to hear the licence and go through the process of Minister's response. obtaining a letter or joining a club. They can go to a dealer and try to sell those weapons. Mr COOPER: I am certainly aware of As the honourable member said, the market what the member is saying. However, it is also will be rather bad. The other option is to important to protect the innocent and honest surrender them. people who are issuing in good faith a letter that allows people to shoot on their property. Amendments agreed to. Those people who have given permission by Clause 28, as amended, agreed to. way of a letter will not be penalised for having Clause 29— done so. The defence applies only to the act of providing permission. The person shall be Mr COOPER (5.58 p.m.): I move— liable under laws of negligence. The main "At page 56, lines 6 and 7— point is that people will be protected from omit, insert— liability. '¥ any firearm capable of firing 50 Clause 26, as read, agreed to. calibre cartridge ammunition'. Clause 27, as read, agreed to. At page 56, line 21, 'RPG'— Clause 28— omit, insert— Mr COOPER (5.56 p.m.): I move the 'rocket propelled grenade'. following amendments— At page 56, lines 28 to 31— "At page 52, line 7, 'of'— omit, insert— omit, insert— '¥ mortars, all artillery and any 'or'. incendiary or inflammable device At page 52, line 16, 'under the new containing any substance Act'— capable of causing bodily harm omit." or damage to property'. Mr DOLLIN: I would like to speak to At page 57, line 16, 'a sap glove'— proposed section 154, page 53, which omit, insert— provides— 'a weighted glove designed or "A person who owns a weapon and, constructed to be used as a weapon'. after the commencement, surrenders it to At page 57, lines 20 to 24— the commissioner is entitled to compensation from the State, but only omit." under this section." Amendments agreed to. 30 Oct 1996 Pacific Highway; Canowindra Country Estate 3707

Clause 29, as amended, agreed to. Main Roads to follow the route described Clause 30— as Option A, through the Pacific Springs Golf Course. Mr COOPER (5.59 p.m.): I move— Further, it calls on the Minister to rule "At page 58, lines 12 and 13, 'and out Options B and C because of the ammunition'— damage they would do to the lives and omit." lifestyle of the more than 500 residents of Amendment agreed to. the Canowindra Country Estate. Clause 30, as amended, agreed to. Finally, the Parliament calls on the Minister to resolve this issue as a matter Clauses 31 and 32, as read, agreed to. of urgency to relieve the concern and Clause 33— uncertainty that hangs over all the Mr COOPER (6 p.m.): I move the residents of Canowindra Country Estate following amendments— as a result of the bungled attempts at "At page 59, lines 17 and 18— community consultation over this issue." omit, insert— This motion relates to the options being considered by the Department of Main Roads '(4) Section 12, proposed section for a route through the Pimpama district for 3.48F— one of this Government's great follies— omit, insert— another one of its great follies—the so-called 'Limits on approvals Pacific motorway. This motorway, which the Minister tells us is going to be world class, will '3.48F A range may be approved be eight lanes between Beenleigh and only if the range is conducted by an Nerang. A problem lies north of Logan, which approved shooting club.'.'. has experienced already significant volumes of At page 59, after line 20— traffic. North of Logan, there will be no insert— increase in the capacity of the South East Freeway other than perhaps for buses. So it is '(5A) Section 12, proposed section a folly because this plan will just not work as a 3.48N(1), definition "range operator", after transport option. 'approved range'— The Minister has assured this House insert— already that the first priority for this road will be 'for an approved shooting club'." the car carrying parts of the road. The Amendments agreed to. busways and the high-occupancy vehicle lanes will be a secondary consideration and Clause 33, as amended, agreed to. will receive funding only if the Government can Clauses 34 and 35, as read, agreed to. sell enough of its assets to fund it. So much Schedules 1 and 2, as read, agreed to. for the Government's commitment to public transport! Bill reported, with amendments. Mr Johnson: Who said that? Mr ELDER: The Minister said that. He is Third Reading on the record, and the Government is on the Bill, on motion of Mr Cooper, by leave, record, as saying that. It is roads, roads and read a third time. more roads, and if the Minister does not recall that he is on the public record as saying that, I suggest that he reads the Estimates debates PACIFIC HIGHWAY; CANOWINDRA COUNTRY ESTATE of this House. It is roads, roads and more roads, and if the Government has anything left Hon. J. P. ELDER (Capalaba—Deputy over, then it will think about public transport. Leader of the Opposition) (6.02 p.m.): I move— This is a Government that has lost its way. This is a Government that has no sense of "That this Parliament calls on the priorities. The Government should be about Minister for Transport and Main Roads to providing services to people. Of late, the only resolve the conflict over a route for his thing that this Government has been about is Pacific Motorway through the Pimpama keeping the Premier and the Police Minister area. out of Her Majesty's Service. Over the last six In particular, the Parliament calls on months, all of the Government's energies the Minister to direct the Department of have been devoted to keeping the Premier 3708 Pacific Highway; Canowindra Country Estate 30 Oct 1996 and the Police Minister out of gaol. There is no the Pacific Springs Golf Course and taking a focus on providing the best services for the small parcel of land from the Pimpama State people of Queensland. There is no focus on School. Option B pushes this highway building Queensland's economy or eastwards right smack bang through the encouraging export industries. There is no Canowindra Country Estate. It involves focus on creating jobs in Queensland. When numerous resumptions, it involves dislocations the Cabinet sits down on Monday mornings, and the disturbance of the lifestyles of some almost inevitably and invariably the primary 500 people who live in that particular estate. matter for discussion is the CJC or, more This matter has been raised already in the precisely, how to get the CJC and how to House by the member for Albert. He scuttle Carruthers before they get the Premier presented a petition signed by 522 of his and the Police Minister. Surely, as in this case, constituents. When he presented that petition, when there is a choice between building a the member for Albert said, "It is not simply my road—— duty, it is my pleasure, to support this Mr Johnson: What has this got to do preferred option." Those locals would be very with the motion? interested to know how the member for Albert Mr ELDER: I will tell the Minister what it votes on this issue and whether he is true to has got to do with it. When there is a choice his word and supports the preferred option, between building a road through a golf course which is option A. Those locals will be watching and paying some compensation and the member for Albert to see what he does. destroying the lives of hundreds of As I said earlier, in relation to options A Queenslanders by putting the eight-lane and B, there was an extended period of monster freeway through their backyards or consultation. However, on Friday, 18 October close to their front steps, then it should be an 1996, representatives of Rust PPK, when easy choice. visiting residents in Canowindra, informed The Minister for Transport should be them of a new option, option C. Option C thinking about providing services to the people would entail fewer resumptions in Canowindra of Queensland. That is what he should be but would still mean massive disruption and about. Instead of worrying about the CJC, he dislocation of the local residents and the should be worrying about this matter. If that destruction of the lifestyle that had attracted were so, there would not be a choice for him those people to that estate. Later that day, to make; it would be a simple decision, and representatives of Rust PPK informed that simple decision would be not to build a residents of a public meeting in relation to road through the Canowindra Country Estate. option C to be held at 2 p.m. the next That is the simple decision. afternoon. Members of the House are only too well At least the Minister's consultation was aware of the Transport Minister's bungled immediate. Someone must have come up attempts at community consultation over this with the idea to have the consultation and highway upgrade. Those issues have been then hold a public meeting. The fact is that the highlighted previously by many Opposition Minister spent three months talking about two members. The Pimpama debacle is just options, yet he gave less than 24 hours to a another of the Minister's failed attempts at few selected residents to attend a public consultation. Most users of the Pacific discussion about the new option. Obviously, Highway would be readily able to identify the that does not bother the Minister. Let me area in question, as it contains the little church assure the Minister and the member for Albert with the soldier standing sentinel beside it on that it bothers both this Opposition and those the right-hand side of the highway residents in Canowindra. I think that the claims southbound. Currently, the highway passes of this Government about fair and open close by the church, the statue and the local consultation are just an absolute joke. cemetery. There seems to be a general On Saturday, 19 October 1996, at that acceptance that the highway needs to avoid public meeting when representatives of Rust the church. PPK were quizzed about the period of Approximately two months or three consultation in relation to option C, one months ago, the Department of Main Roads representative suggested that perhaps two and its consultant, Rust PPK, presented two weeks would be an appropriate period. A options for the local community for number of residents complained about that consultation. Option A entails the highway short length of time, so someone else from passing west of the church and the cemetery, Rust PPK suggested that maybe there should through some undeveloped private holdings, be three weeks for consultation. Not 30 Oct 1996 Pacific Highway; Canowindra Country Estate 3709 surprisingly, further complaints followed. The abundance of correspondence that has been suggested consultation period was then received from residents of the Canowindra extended to four weeks. After more heated estate, examples of which I have. A letter from discussion at this public meeting, the a number of residents states— consultation period was extended to 22 "However, politics and arrogance November. That decision came about only appears to be coming in and lack of through that public meeting. There are few listening to normal people's better illustrations of the haphazard nature of understanding." this Minister's community consultation than that meeting and how that consultation period How true that is! It was the case in Eagleby, was resolved. What a joke! where there was little or no consultation and the Minister spoke about taking it right up the In reality, option C is little different from guts; he talked of "no apologies". That was option B. It is still unacceptable to the local the first example. We have also seen residents. I acknowledge that, if option A is examples of it in the way in which the people chosen, the issue of compensation will arise, who live between South Brisbane and Mount but that is surely a superior result to destroying Gravatt have been handled in relation to this the lifestyles of so many Queenslanders. It is matter. This is a classic example. interesting to note that the land-holdings located close to option A are those owned by Mr Johnson: You're a vicious little man. the family of a former prominent National Party Mr ELDER: I will take the interjection. figure, Sir Charles Holm. The residents of The Minister says that I am vicious; why does Canowindra will observe very keenly how that he not ask the people of Eagleby and property will be treated in comparison with how Canowindra who is vicious? This is a simple their properties will be treated. decision. For the last four months, the residents of Mr Robertson: He accused you of Canowindra have lived with uncertainty as to being too generous. the future of their lifestyle. That uncertainty Mr ELDER: The Minister accused me of has now been extended to 22 November with being far too generous on the southern no indication to the local residents that a bypass and now I am being vicious because I decision is likely to be made. Going by am exposing the fact that there has been a previous experience, it would not be complete lack of consultation. The unreasonable for them to expect that no Government is trying to hoodwink the people action will take place until Christmas. of Canowindra, who will not have a bar of it. As Since unveiling option C, the mood in I have said to the member for Albert, "Tonight Canowindra has darkened significantly. A new is your chance, cobber. You can live up to the petition has been collected hurriedly, and it expectations that the people of the electorate has gained even greater support than the one have of you. You can vote for putting the that was tabled previously by the member for route through Pacific Springs Golf Course Albert. Some 94 per cent of households in the where there will be little or no dislocation to the area have signed that petition. For the local community." All support that option, and information of the House, I will table a copy of all the Government has is a compensation that petition. problem—— The residents of Canowindra have the full Time expired. support of all members of the Opposition. If Mr ARDILL (Archerfield) (6.12 p.m.): I their local member is willing to support them, have much pleasure in seconding the motion as he has previously claimed that he would, of the shadow Minister, the member for then this motion will be passed and the Capalaba. I think he is being too generous. He winners will be the constituents in his certainly was not too generous on the electorate. If the member rats on his southern bypass; he was looking after the constituents, I am sure they will all know about environment. However, in this case he is being it—we will certainly let them know about too generous in talking about option C and not it—and they will decide the issue at the ballot discussing what "C" stands for. "C" stands for box, whenever that might be. Charlie Holm; it stands for compromise and it The simple fact is that, at the end of day, stands for corruption. After what we have seen there has been a complete lack of community in the last 24 hours, it is very plain that consultation in relation to this issue, that is, corruption is involved in everything that option C. Consultation on options A and B happens on the other side of the House. proceeded for three to four months; for option In point of fact, neither option A nor C, 24 hours. One only has to look at the option B should be adopted and, certainly, 3710 Pacific Highway; Canowindra Country Estate 30 Oct 1996 option C for corruption should not be adopted. roads and country roads where overtaking What should be adopted is option R for the lanes are vitally needed. Funding should be Gold Coast railway, which should be extended going to those projects and not to this project, to where it will be useful, not merely exist as which is a waste of money. I urge the member an appendage to a road in the middle of for Albert to do the right thing and vote for his nowhere. The $630m that will be wasted on constituents. this highway should be transferred to the Mr HEALY (Toowoomba North) railway. A sum of $244m is needed to bring (6.16 p.m.): I rise to oppose this motion. It was this road up to motorway standard. I suggest interesting to hear some of the comments that the Minister goes overseas and looks at made by the member for Archerfield, because motorways, autobahns, autostradas— I am certain that they caused great concern to whatever he likes. None are eight-lane roads. some of his colleagues on that side of the Only in stupid Los Angeles would one find House. eight-lane roads. All of the motorways in civilised countries have six lanes, three in each The construction of the Pacific motorway direction. is, indeed, a landmark event for south-east Queensland and for the State. When it is There is absolutely no need to expand completed four years from now, it will be one this road to eight lanes. It is a sheer waste of of the most innovative and exciting money. As a prime example, only a short while infrastructure projects to be carried out in ago the overpass at the church was opened Queensland. The motorway will not only over six lanes. Now they find that they cannot benefit road users but will also provide fit eight lanes through there so they are economic, social and environmental benefits looking at other options. That is an absolute to a much wider community. More importantly, waste of money—money which could be put it replaces the Pacific Highway, which was to better use. identified earlier this year by the RACQ as At the northern end of the highway, the being the most dangerous road in the State road will not carry the volume of traffic that will because of the number of accidents and be encouraged onto it by building eight lanes fatalities that occur on that stretch of road. It is at the southern end. There is absolutely no also a very busy highway. Some sections of need to build an eight-lane road, which will be the Pacific Highway carry up to 85,000 counterproductive because it will encourage vehicles per day. more people to drive rather than to use the Finding the best solutions to the growing train in morning and afternoon peak periods. demands—— This is a crazy situation. It is not only "C" Mr Ardill: What about the Gatton for Charlie Holm, "C" for compromise and "C" bypass? for corruption, but it is also "C" for crazy. It is time that the Government did something Mr HEALY: What about the Gatton about the needs of the area, which does not bypass? What about the $50m regional road need an eight-lane highway. If any money is infrastructure announced last week for the left over, it should be put into local roads such Oakey bypass? The shadow Minister came to as the Tamborine Road from Oxenford and Toowoomba and said that that would not the Albert and Coomera Valley roads, all of happen. It will happen and so will the which will need a lot of upgrading over the Toowoomba bypass and the feasibility study next few years. Instead, the Government is will be done. The Federal Government has wasting approximately $400m on an guaranteed that we will get the money and the unnecessary, eight-lane road. People in Opposition knows it. The community has country areas could do with money spent on already told us that it does not want an their highways, but instead the Government alternative corridor between Brisbane and the wastes it on this road. That is absolutely crazy. Gold Coast. The Opposition's eastern corridor and south coast motorway are as dead as the Mr Johnson: If you want us to spend it koalas would have been if they had gone in the bush, we'll spend it in the bush. ahead. Mr ARDILL: It certainly should not be To meet the expected demand on the spent on an eight-lane road. Six lanes is existing highway, an eight-lane Pacific adequate and six lanes will fit in the present Highway is needed, and this Government is corridor. For goodness' sake: the Government providing it. However, projects of this nature do should get its priorities straight and stop occur at a cost and the challenge for the worrying about Charlie Holm. The Government Government is to find the balance between must spend the money where it is needed, on environmental, social and other costs. When projects such as the Gold Coast railway, local people are affected, there is a need to ensure 30 Oct 1996 Pacific Highway; Canowindra Country Estate 3711 that they are treated fairly, compassionately This section of the Pacific motorway is an and quickly so that they can get on with their important area that the Government is lives. At this stage, we do not know if people's addressing fairly. It is doing this through a homes will be affected and that is rightly so series of community consultations, and that because the consultation is still continuing— process is still continuing. As to the bigger the consultation that the Opposition said was picture—when completed, the Pacific not happening is continuing. motorway will be world class and will Mr Robertson: When is that going to accommodate traffic speeds of 110 kilometres start? per hour. It will feature wide shoulders on both sides of both carriages for safety. A state-of- Mr HEALY: In fact, there are still three the-art traffic management system will regulate weeks of consultation to go. the flow of traffic onto the motorway to Our record of listening to the people is minimise congestion. well documented and option C was the result Mr Ardill: What about Karawatha? of consultation. The Government will not be interfering with that process, but the Mr HEALY: Service roads will separate Opposition wants us to. This Government will local traffic from through traffic, which answers not be politicising public consultation, but the the member for Archerfield's question. Opposition wants us to. The Opposition wants Extensive noise buffering and revegetation will this Government to make a mockery of help to minimise the impact on surrounding consultation. It wants the Government to communities. This group is consulting and indicate a preference on the route tonight. Not working with the community to develop a road only would that set a dangerous precedent, system which will help meet the existing and but it would also jeopardise future future transport needs of this rapidly consultation. We believe in the principle of expanding corridor. giving all people a fair go and we do that Mr ROBERTSON (Sunnybank) through public consultation. (6.21 p.m.): I rise in support of the motion Comments made by the community have moved by the Deputy Leader of the been or will be incorporated in the plans. Main Opposition. In so doing, I invite the member Roads officers are endeavouring to ensure for Toowoomba North, since he thinks that the that those individuals and organisations who Pacific motorway is such a grand plan and a have made comments are now given the beautiful piece of infrastructure, to come to opportunity to see how their comments have Underwood in my electorate where, because been considered and to make any further of a decision by the Minister, another two suggestions that they feel are necessary. An lanes will be added to the South East intense period of consultation is under way or Freeway, which will bring that road to within 50 has already occurred, including further metres of the back doors of homes. That is an meetings with community groups, local MLAs, absolute disgrace. That is why the people of the Opposition and affected local Pimpama have a lot in common with the governments. The Government has included people of Underwood. Both communities are the Opposition in its consultation and the finding out what a joke this Minister's Opposition has chosen to use it as a stunt. commitment to public consultation really is. The Government does not have a An honourable member interjected. preferred alignment option at Pimpama. The Mr ROBERTSON: I take that Government is seeking to have the best interjection; I know the honourable member possible outcome. We also recognise that does not go anywhere without getting lunch. some people will be inconvenienced regardless of whatever option is selected. The experience of the Pimpama Compensation is provided to those people community is also sending a very powerful and whose properties are resumed. On this disturbing message to the people of occasion, conflict is good. It has turned latent Underwood that this Government is not groups along the motorway into active prepared to listen. The Pimpama debacle is groups—the Opposition included. This has also demonstrating what little concern this allowed those people who otherwise may have Minister has for the quality of life of been silent on the issue to have a say. communities along the freeway. There is Perhaps the motion tonight may improve the absolutely no logic to the prevarication on quality of the decision that has to be made, behalf of this Minister in adopting option A, and I am sure the consultants would look except for one important point of evidence. forward to receiving copies of the Hansard Given the debate earlier today about the record of this debate. demise of Mr Carruthers, it is timely that I 3712 Pacific Highway; Canowindra Country Estate 30 Oct 1996 remind members in this House of what that members on this side of the House, his point of evidence is, and that is the grubby promises and commitment to his electorate will political deal between VETO and the National have meant absolutely nothing. Tonight, the and Liberal Parties which Mr Carruthers challenge for the member for Albert is to do himself described as the most "extraordinary" what is right for his electorate, lest he just document he had ever seen in his life, a become another member of the minority document which is contrary to the public Government opposite. interest. It is this deal which commits the Mr BAUMANN (Albert) (6.26 p.m.): Government to containing the coalition's Naturally enough, I rise to oppose the motion. alternative to the eastern tollway within the I am not going to be a party to supporting general present alignment of the Pacific anything that attempts to politicise the plight of Highway corridor. the people in the Canowindra estate. The Despite the strong public support for honourable member for Capalaba speaks of a option A, which for all the right reasons as far conflict, and that is typical of the Opposition's as the local community is concerned takes the cheap brand of politics. We have seen tonnes highway outside of that corridor and the of it. The people of Canowindra appreciate current general alignment, this Minister is where the member is coming from. The bound by the terms of its agreement—its Deputy Leader of the Opposition has never grubby political deal with VETO—so solemnly been to a meeting there, and he has no idea entered into between the Premier of this State what is happening. and VETO. No wonder this corrupt The member seeks to divide the Government did everything it could to get rid community again, which is typical of members of Commissioner Carruthers. As every day opposite. He seeks to stir up the "not in my passes, this agreement—this grubby political backyard" attitude in an effort to cloud the real deal—is coming back to haunt this Minister issues and stall important decisions. He finds it and Government, an agreement which, until so convenient to drum up hysteria and to pit recently, was supported 100 per cent by the one group of Queenslanders against another. member for Albert. He speaks of damaging the lives and lifestyles However, even the member for Albert is of the residents of the Canowindra Country coming to understand the stupidity and Estate. The Government is not in the business irresponsibility of the deal—the agreement— of damaging anyone's lifestyle. It is with VETO. The member for Albert is fast responsible for improving the lifestyles of all coming to the conclusion that he cannot rely Queenslanders. on the support of the Minister for Transport. I Mr Elder: How does an eight-lane am sure that at the recent public meeting with highway through their front door improve their residents at Pimpama the Minister for lifestyle? Transport was nowhere to be seen, just as he was nowhere to be seen at the three public Mr BAUMANN: The honourable meetings held for Underwood residents, just member has no understanding at all. as he was nowhere to be seen at the two All Queenslanders living in the Brisbane- rallies against the freight line through Gold Coast corridor know the value of Karawatha forest, and just as he was nowhere transport infrastructure which this Government to be seen in respect of the residents of is building. We are engaged in one of the Eagleby. The Minister is fast becoming known most significant transport projects ever as "Mr Invisible". No-one has seen him. No- undertaken in this State, a motorway that will one in the community ever gets to see the bring social, environmental and economic Minister. And he wants to talk about benefits to Queenslanders—those same consultation! Queenslanders who absolutely rejected the That is why the member for Albert is politics of members opposite. coming to understand that the Minister for This debate is not really about conflict and Transport has no idea what he is doing. That the drummed up dramas of the member for is why, to his credit, he is coming out publicly Capalaba; it is about consultation. I know full in support of local residents in demanding the well about the consultation processes. I have scrapping of option A. The problem for the been involved in every consultation. I did not member for Albert tonight, though, is that he notice the honourable member for Capalaba needs to take it one step further. He has to attending those meetings. I have also been take the extra step to show how fair dinkum he trying to smooth the waters in the electorate of really is. Tonight, when we divide on this the member for Waterford, who has been motion, we will see on what side of the House creating mass hysteria in his area. He has not the member will sit. If he fails to vote with helped one of his constituents. He would 30 Oct 1996 Pacific Highway; Canowindra Country Estate 3713 rather stir up major conflict and hysteria. This for consultation, and my colleague the Government listens to the people in its care, member for Clayfield will discuss that in detail. unlike the Opposition. We have acknowledged All interested individuals and groups are being their failure to stay in touch with the electorate, encouraged to take this opportunity to have and they paid the price for their arrogance. their views heard. Would members opposite With such a major development as the have this House slam the door and refuse to Pacific motorway, we have sought public input listen? Queenslanders have always valued the at every stage. As the elected representative right to have a say—— of the concerned people of Canowindra, I Time expired. have carried forward all submissions to the Mr BARTON (Waterford) (6.31 p.m.): relevant departmental officers and consultants Today is a fairly important day in terms of this involved in this project to ensure that their debate, because this is the day of reckoning voices have been and will continue to be for the member for Albert. This is the member heard. who, as has already been mentioned, earlier The notice of motion makes specific this month presented a petition from people in mention of the so-called Pimpama deviation, his electorate containing 500 signatories. He so I will be specific in my response. On 19 has risen in this House and essentially said August, the residents of the area were shown that he is backing his constituents. I think we two options for the alignment, and a third have to have a bit of a look at his track record falling between options A and B was put to in this regard. them early in October. As honourable Some months ago we had a debate on members are well aware, the deadline for the issue of the widening of the Pacific feedback on the possible alignment has been Highway during which he rose and extended until 22 November. We will not be wholeheartedly supported the Minister for cutting short the process we have put in place Transport—wholeheartedly supported the or the time we have offered the people to widening of the South East Freeway and the have their say. Pacific Highway. I do not have the exact words The motion proposed by the member for here, but he essentially said—and my Capalaba today might just as well have said, recollection is very clear—that there were very "Forget the proper process. Don't worry about few people in his electorate affected and that the investment that individuals or businesses his constituents were happy with the proposals have made. Never mind plans for housing that were being put forward. On that occasion estates and other facilities that may be I interjected on the member, and he indicated required in the future. Let's not bother to me that I did not know what I was talking ourselves with the cost to the public purse. about because it was not going to affect many Just crash through." That is not good enough. of his constituents and that they were all Allow me to make this absolutely clear: happy. the Government does not yet have a preferred I must say this to the member for Albert: alignment option. We will not pre-empt the my electorate office is a lot closer than his to process of public input, and everyone will have the people who are mainly affected in this the time promised to make their opinions regard. From day one, the constituents in known. Many residents have already taken Canowindra and in Ormeau have been that opportunity, and they are to be trekking into my electorate office and congratulated on being involved. As the attending the meetings that were held in member for Albert, I have received a petition Eagleby saying that they were opposed to the from some of my constituents showing their proposals, at a time when they could not even preference. I have lodged that petition. This get the member for Albert to listen to them. Government is committed to genuine, wide- An honourable member interjected. ranging public consultation. All comments are being considered in relation to the three Mr Baumann: I think he must be. He options. As I mentioned, the consultation doesn't consult his own constituents. period has been extended by three weeks to Mr BARTON: This is just ridiculous. I allow free and open discussion. take that interjection. I had numerous The Government is looking for the best meetings in Eagleby with my constituents. I possible outcome. We recognise that some went to the meetings that were held by the people will be inconvenienced regardless of various community groups. Those meetings which option is chosen, but compensation will were being attended by many of the be paid to those whose properties are constituents of the member for Albert. I did not resumed. There is a well-established process see him at one single meeting. If he is talking 3714 Pacific Highway; Canowindra Country Estate 30 Oct 1996 about the fact that I did not attend some of plan for that area because it impacts on their the consultation meetings that he did, I also property values. want to put this on the record: I have attended Time expired. every single meeting on this freeway widening that I have been invited to, and I also invited Hon. S. SANTORO (Clayfield—Minister myself to a number of others that I was not for Training and Industrial Relations) invited to that I found out were being held. If in (6.36 p.m.): As honourable members would fact there were consultation meetings about appreciate, I do not say very much in this my electorate attended by the member for House these days, though that is about to Albert at which I was not present, it is because change. In fact, I was not intending to speak I was not told about those meetings, nor was I in this debate, but I was absolutely outraged invited to them. when I saw this motion. I forced myself into the debate, and I am pleased that the Minister We had the Minister say in this House accommodated me. This motion refers to a that there has been all of this consultation and so-called lack of consultation and lack of all of these meetings, particularly with interest by the Minister. When we look at the businesses in the area. I was not invited to record of the Minister and compare it with the any of those meetings at a time when I was record of those opposite, particularly when saying very clearly, "Those meetings can't they were in Government, it becomes clear have taken place because we were not told that the contents of this motion represent about them." I want to put that on the record. nothing but a total outrage. Mr Baumann interjected. Let me pay a tribute to the Minister for the Mr BARTON: I can hear the chattering way in which he has come into my electorate, of "Elvis" up the back. This is the day of on at least three occasions now, fronted up to reckoning, because now the member for my constituents and listened to them while Albert is going to have to put his money and they raised the difficult issues that were left to his vote where his mouth is. It is not good us by those opposite. The Minister has taken enough for him to walk away from his their concerns on board. He has been working constituents. with me over a period of two months now, and slowly but surely we are working through the Charlie Holm's name has already been concerns of the people in my electorate, which mentioned tonight. One of the main reasons were taken on board personally by the those opposite did not want the south coast Minister—concerns that were left unattended motorway as proposed by the Labor and unresolved by members opposite. How Government was that it was going to cut many times have I turned on the TV—and Charlie Holm's cane farm in half. They members opposite, if they were honest, would opposed it principally for that reason. Now they also acknowledge this—and seen the Minister are going to ram a highway option through acknowledge the concerns of the people in another area—an area in which a large Eagleby? How many times have we seen the number of the constituents of the member for Minister talk to the people in Dublin Drive? Albert reside—to save Charlie Holm's other How many times have we seen the Minister property. We need to put that in context. The listening and talking to individuals in those member for Albert claimed that he is not being places? political about it. I point out that it was the Let us now go through the process that people on the other side who wrote the book the Minister has followed. The people of on being political on highway widenings, Pimpama were originally given two options to certainly since the time that I was a candidate consider. One option had a negative effect on for and a member of this House—from 1992 the golf course and the other had a negative through to 1995. We have certainly seen what effect on the homes in the area. Both options these people think about the constituents out were put on display on 19 August. As a result there, political interference and political of this consultation, this Minister—this involvement. Government—has gone back to the people This has been a disaster from day one. It and other industries, including the investors in is going to continue to be a disaster. As my the golf course, with a third option, option C. colleague the member for Sunnybank said, it Option C was put on display on 11 October, is all because of another dirty deal that was and feedback on this option does not close done with VETO. The people who did not want until 22 November. I respectfully suggest to the road and who wanted to protect the koalas members opposite that, if this is not are the very people who are now turning up to consultation, then absolutely nothing that the meetings and objecting to the koala protection Government does in terms of consultation will 30 Oct 1996 Pacific Highway; Canowindra Country Estate 3715 please members opposite. The people of The Pacific Highway between Brisbane Pimpama are indeed very fortunate to have and the Gold Coast has been consistently the opportunity of being able to have input shown to be inadequate and the previous and to have the opportunity of dealing with a Government responded to this by approving Minister who appreciates the concept of the six-laning project. The daily frustrations of consultation better than those opposite. traffic jams and the nightmare of horrific I will not take up much time reminding accidents along the existing four lanes could members opposite—in fact, all members—of not be ignored by any Government, but this the disgraceful performance of those people Government has gone too far. The opposite in their handling of the airport Canowindra Country Estate is a relatively new motorway. The airport motorway was a deal, estate where many young families have struck in secret, which was to go before struggled to save and to build their dream Cabinet. It was only after a conscientious homes, and what does this Government want whistleblower blew the whistle on the to do? It wants to bulldoze a highway through dastardly, ghastly secret deals done by the front of their properties. Why? Because it members opposite that we were able to stop could not accept what the experts said and that motorway. That was a secret deal the consultant's advice, which was to build the six lanes. That would have been the smart hatched up within their sick, non-consultative option—the option supported by the Labor imaginations. Government. No, this Government made rash Mr T. B. Sullivan interjected. political statements, trying to score political Mr SANTORO: Later on, we will hear points during the campaign in the lead-up to the member for Chermside in an impotent way the State election and now, since it became stand up and rabbit on about nothing. We are the accidental Government, we are stuck with the people who are fixing that problem and we it. are the people who will look after the people in The eight-laning proposal not only my electorate, just like the Minister is looking adversely affects the Pimpama community but after the people on the south side. also the residents at Studio Village, the Movie Apart from that, we are implementing an World Theme Park overflow car park, seven election policy. Do members opposite forget service stations, three caravan parks—the list goes on. The work on the six-laning and the seats that they lost as a result of the service roads was ready to begin by the implementation of an election promise? The previous Government—a six-laning proposal people have spoken and, as a result of the which would have caused much less disruption consultative efforts of this Minister, they are to business and residents than this ill- continuing to speak to him and they are conceived, ill-considered eight-laning project. continuing to speak to the Government. They are letting us know their concerns; they have Even the Gold Coast business community got up to 22 November to let us know their thinks it is a ridiculous proposal. I will refer to concerns. They are going to be better off as a some comments that were made by the result of the proper and due process that this Chambers of Commerce in the Gold Coast Minister and this Government have Bulletin in April. An article in that newspaper implemented. states— The reason they are all sitting there like "The Queensland Government's plan stunned mullets, not even able to rise to any to eight-lane the Pacific Highway within sensible interjection, is that they know they three years is destined to fail, say Gold have no argument. Coast business leaders. . . . Mr T. B. Sullivan interjected. A submission to Transport Minister Mr SANTORO: I have been defending Vaughan Johnson, released by the the member against the charge of being chambers' transport issue spokesman, egotistical for so many years. Darryl Woods, said six-laning of the Time expired. highway and upgrading service roads was the best option"— Mrs ROSE: (Currumbin) (6.41 p.m.): I am pleased to support the motion moved by That was the best option, as was planned by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition that the the Labor Government. The article Minister direct the Department of Main Roads continues— to follow the route described as option A "as plans were already in place and through the Pimpama area. construction could begin promptly. 3716 Pacific Highway; Canowindra Country Estate 30 Oct 1996

Premier Rob Borbidge has said he Minister in relation to the Carruthers inquiry. expected to honour his election promise What has that got to do with this motion? All to four-lane the Pacific Highway in both he is good at is character assassination. He is directions from Brisbane to the Gold talking about two men of integrity, two men of Coast within three years. great ability—a man who is currently the . . . Premier of this State and a man who is a former Premier of this State. The member for The chambers said Mr Borbidge's Capalaba is a gutless wonder. Will he go promise could not be fulfilled due to the outside of this place and say the same thing? time it would take for new designs to be He has not got the guts to do it. finalised and acquisition of properties to make way for the road." However, this motion is about causing chaos and causing pandemonium in the lives This roads plan is a bandaid solution for of people who live along the Gold Coast the coast. While any widening of the highway motorway. Members opposite had the option is to be applauded, the Government will create to put in place the south coast motorway that chaos with this ill-conceived plan to widen the they wanted but, no, they procrastinated over highway only between Beenleigh and the it for nearly six years. We were elected to Smith Street connection. It has let the people power on 15 July—— on the coast down by not adopting the previous Government's option of turning the Opposition members interjected. highway into six lanes from Smith Street north Mr JOHNSON: We won those seats. past Beenleigh. We will talk about Mundingburra; we will talk While this Government's plan will be fine about whatever members opposite like. This for anyone wanting to get to Beenleigh, traffic Government came to power because of the conditions after that will get even worse than votes of those people on the southern side of they are now because vehicles spread across Brisbane. Members opposite talk about eight lanes are going to have to squeeze into options A, B and C. They can talk about four lanes at some spots close to Brisbane, whatever they like—this Government will not and people travelling south will have to cope be rushed into making a decision on these with eight lanes running into four lanes at options. We are having full, proper, open and Nerang. This will create bottlenecks and traffic responsible consultation. We have a very jams, especially with projected increases in reputable company in Rust PPK carrying out traffic. It is a recipe for disaster. No wonder the these consultations. plan has been heavily criticised not only by the Mr Elder interjected. Gold Coast business community but also by Mr JOHNSON: This bloke over here—— the State's peak motoring body, the RACQ. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Minister will The former Labor Government was refer to the member as the honourable committed to improving both the Pacific member for Capalaba. Highway and other roads on the southern Gold Coast and I fear that this Government's Mr JOHNSON: The honourable clumsy attempt to fix the Pacific Highway member for Capalaba, yes, that is the fellow. problem will mean that those improvements He was the one who engaged this team of will come to an end. The social costs of the consultants when he was the Minister, yet eight-laning construction impacts, particularly here he is criticising this Government today noise, on local residents will be enormous. I about the lack of consultation. We are carrying ask the Minister if he has had his department out that consultation. We are not going to be carry out community impact assessments for rushing this program and will not procrastinate the Pimpama community, the Ormeau over it in the same way the Labor Government community, the Studio Village community, the did. We are going to do it properly. Eagleby community and all the other The motion calls on me to override the communities who will be affected along the proper process put in place by the Department corridor? of Main Roads. I am not going to override the Time expired. proper process. This Government is going to do this properly and responsibly. We will not Hon. V. G. JOHNSON (Gregory— cut short the proper process. We will not ram Minister for Transport and Main Roads) through a particular option without balancing (6.47 p.m.): In rising to speak to this motion all the factors involved in the life of that this evening, the first thing I want to put on community. record is the attack of the member for Capalaba on the Premier and the Police Mr Barton interjected. 30 Oct 1996 Pacific Highway; Canowindra Country Estate 3717

Mr JOHNSON: The member for the day, this Government will make the best Waterford knows that. Being negative is all option available, and we will make it known to that the member for Waterford, the member the public. That will be done in December this for Capalaba, the member for Sunnybank and year. The people who the member claims will a lot of the other Labor members have ever be affected will not be affected. The member done. They have caused chaos and they have is creating hysteria. caused a great deal of concern to the lives of Mr Elder: Why won't they be affected? many people. Mr JOHNSON: They will not be Mr ROBERTSON: I rise to a point of affected. We will be making sure that that order. That is untrue. I find that remark consultation is fully exhausted, and the offensive. At all times I have acted responsibly member knows that. and informed my constituents of the facts. I ask the Minister to withdraw that. Time expired. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable Mr T. B. SULLIVAN (Chermside) member has asked for a withdrawal. (6.52 p.m.): I rise to support the motion moved by the shadow Minister for Transport, the Mr JOHNSON: I withdraw. But the truth Deputy Leader of the Opposition. The process hurts sometimes. Negative people do not rate of community consultation is an important part a mention with me. Members should be of this debate. Previous speakers have positive and constructive. The members for highlighted serious deficiencies in the process Waterford and Sunnybank should cooperate undertaken in the Pimpama section of the and try to work with the people in that area. coalition's eight-lane, half a highway to the Mr Elder interjected. Gold Coast. It is reasonable to ask whether the consultation process associated with this Mr JOHNSON: The Opposition road project is an exception or whether it is the spokesman, the member for Capalaba, has norm for the Department of Transport. Sadly, had full briefings from the Department of we must conclude that, all too often, the Transport and Main Roads in relation to the consultation process associated with road project. He is a hypocrite for moving this projects is inadequate and deficient. My motion. criticism is not directed at the individual Mr ELDER: I rise to a point of order. The departmental officers but rather at the culture debate is robust, but I find that remark that has developed within the Department of offensive. I ask that it be withdrawn. Transport. My aim is to improve this system of Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable community consultation, which will benefit the member has found that remark offensive. The residents of that area. Minister will withdraw it. The history of the department means that Mr JOHNSON: The member might have engineers have largely been in charge and, found it offensive, but he has had briefings when they have built a road, they have from the department. received praise. It is great for people in regional and remote areas when a new road Mr ELDER: I am not denying that. I just leads to better communication between want the remark withdrawn. remote areas. However, in the built-up urban Mr JOHNSON: Yes, I will withdraw it so areas of the south-east corner, new roadworks that the member will sit down. He is wasting pose problems. My colleagues have my time and that of the House. This debate highlighted the problems and inadequacies of has taken up another hour when we could the community consultation with respect to this have been putting through legislation— road project. I wish to outline two other something constructive for the people of examples of Department of Transport Queensland. consultation to illustrate that the process needs to be improved. Mr ELDER: I rise to a point of order. Between 6 and 7 p.m. the House deals with With respect to the Nundah bottleneck—a matters of public interest, not legislation. problem which has been around for more than 30 years, affecting most of Brisbane's inner- Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point northern suburbs—community consultation did of order. produce a result. Early in the 1990s, a local Mr JOHNSON: This Government will be area consultative group met over a period of having full, proper and open consultation with more than two years. Even though no the people in that area. The motion moved by conclusive solution arose out of that the honourable member for Capalaba refers to consultation process, a local group called the area of Canowindra estate. At the end of NOTION, which was made up of business 3718 Adjournment 30 Oct 1996 people, community groups and residents, did The numbers being equal, Mr Speaker carry on the process and found a solution, that cast his vote with the Noes. is, the cut-and-cover or tunnel option. Resolved in the negative. My point is that the Department of Transport process of consultation did not produce a result, but the grassroots, locally ADJOURNMENT based group with wide representation did Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer—Leader of succeed. Unfortunately, as we know, this Government Business) (7.01 p.m.): I move— process has been scuttled because the "That the House do now adjourn." Treasurer failed to fulfil the commitment made by the previous Government on 18 December last year. The Treasurer chose to spend Rural Families $200m to remove the toll on the Sunshine Mr PEARCE (Fitzroy) (7.01 p.m.): It is Motorway, which would benefit her with much sadness that I inform the constituents. She ignored the hundreds of Parliament of an injustice that is about to hit thousands of residents of Brisbane's inner- rural families throughout Queensland who are northern suburbs who use Sandgate still in drought or recovering from the Road—just as the Minister is ignoring the devastating effects of drought. National Party hundreds of residents who will be badly members in this place should be angered affected by this part of the Pacific Highway. about what I have to say. The Leader of the Unfortunately, the member for Clayfield Liberal Party, Deputy Premier and Treasurer, failed to convince his fellow Cabinet Ministers Joan Sheldon, is literally starving Queensland to solve this problem, which is adversely rural families by cutting Government affecting his constituents—not just motorists department funding to such an extent that the but particularly the business people in Minister for Families, Youth and Community Nundah. Good community consultation from Care—— the grassroots group has resulted in greater Mrs Sheldon interjected. than 95 per cent support for the cut-and-cover Mr PEARCE: The Treasurer should sit option. If the Transport Minister goes ahead there and listen, because that is what she is with the eight-laning of the Pacific Highway in doing. that area, he will not only waste money—as was pointed out by the member for The Minister for Families, Youth and Archerfield—but he will use money that could Community Care cannot provide additional be spent on other and better projects. The direct funding to enable rural support workers BINSTS, or the Brisbane Inner Northern to continue to assist those families in need of Suburbs Transport Study, was another financial support during the coming months. I example of how consultation from the would like a National Party member to please Department of Transport was an absolute grab hold of Mrs Sheldon and explain to her failure. that the effects of a long-term drought do not end with the fall of rain. Please explain to her Time expired. that many families have been hit so hard by Question—That the motion be agreed drought that it will take years for them to get to—put; and the House divided— back on their feet, that is, of course, if the AYES, 44—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, seasons come good. Please explain to her Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, D’Arcy, that farmers have to till the soil, plant the grain De Lacy, Dollin, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, and harvest the crop before they can hope to Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, Lucas, receive any financial return. Please explain to McElligott, McGrady, Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, Mrs Sheldon that, because of the drought, Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Roberts, many rural producers have not had a financial Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Smith, Spence, return for years and that it will take several Sullivan J. H., Welford, Wells, Woodgate Tellers: good crops and many hundreds of head of Livingstone, Sullivan T. B. cattle through the saleyards before rural NOES, 44—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, producers can pay their bills and return to a Cooper, Cunningham, Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, cash flow position that allows them to pay their Gamin, Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, own way. Hegarty, Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Laming, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, The Labor Party understands the Perrett, Quinn, Radke, Rowell, Santoro, Sheldon, problems of rural producers during drought. Simpson, Slack, Stephan, Stoneman, Tanti, Veivers, That is why in Government we established Warwick, Watson, Wilson, Woolmer Tellers: programs to provide them with genuine help. Springborg, Carroll One of those programs was the Rural Family 30 Oct 1996 Adjournment 3719

Support Package, which was designed to help Program, Church groups and charity rural families and individuals cope with the organisations. social and economic impact of drought. The Unfortunately, many of the Rural Labor Government put in place the rural Support Workers have already used most support workers and provided them with funds of their $16,000 allocation of Direct to make on-the-spot cash payments to Financial Aid and will have very little to families in financial crisis and to provide other offer people by Christmas if more funds assistance such as emotional support, are not made available. information referral to drought initiatives and other social services, and help to form We trust that your government will networks among local people. During the see fit to continue to support the rural drought in central Queensland, and in families of Queensland through this particular in my electorate, I know that extremely difficult time by providing Rural hundreds of families and individuals were Support Workers with additional Direct assisted by that package. Importantly, a lot of Financial Aid funds to meet the most that assistance has been provided in the urgent needs of these families." privacy of the homes of rural families. I say to the Treasurer, who had a shot at me Those families are now facing a funding as she left the Chamber: get fair dinkum; give drought because of the anti-family, non-caring the people in the country a break; loosen up attitude of the Treasurer. We have seen those purse strings that are hidden in your Mrs Sheldon introduce new taxes on oil, tyres, office and give decent Queenslanders a fair cigarettes and bank charges. We have seen go. Every National Party member in this place who has any sympathy with what I have said her commit taxpayers' dollars to funding a tollway for her constituents. We have seen her tonight should be knocking on the Treasurer's risk millions of dollars on the stock market for door telling her just what it is like in the country the Metway merger, but our long-suffering and how those people are suffering and why drought-stricken rural producers have been those drought support workers need the denied much-needed financial assistance to funding—— help them to put food on the table, pay their Time expired. power bills and meet the day-to-day needs of their families. National Servicemen's Association I will read from a letter from rural support Mr TANTI (Mundingburra) (7.07 p.m.): In workers to the Minister, Mr Lingard— this House on 4 September I made a two- "Further to our letter of 31st May and minute speech on the details relating to my your replies of 21st June and 2nd July, we wearing of a commemorative National would again request that you give urgent Servicemen's Association of Australia medal consideration to providing additional Direct and the fact that it has been estimated that, Financial Aid funding to those areas during 1951 to 1959, up to 250,000 young covered by the Rural Family Support nashos served their country across the three Program who need more than the services. In Queensland, approximately $16,000 currently available for this 40,000 nashos passed through Wacol. In the financial year. period 1965 to 1972, military conscription was You will be well aware that there will reintroduced coinciding with the Vietnam be a large number of families in southern conflict and 761,854 men who turned 20 years Queensland who will not be receiving between 1965-1972 were potentially eligible Drought Relief Payment after 10th for call up into the Army. December due to the revocation of their The National Servicemen's Association, Exceptional Circumstances Declarations based in Toowoomba, was established by the on 10th June, 1996. Many families will still late Barry Vicary in 1987. In 1994, the not be receiving any income from their organisation was incorporated under properties by this time. Queensland's Associations Incorporation Act under the name National Servicemen's The knowledge that they will be Association of Australia (Queensland) Inc. facing Christmas and a return to school in January with little or no income is causing I will now give honourable members some extreme stress for many of these families. great news, which appeared in the Sunday Many of these families will be forced to Mail on 6 October 1996— rely on any assistance they are able to "Nashos will finally be clasped to the obtain from the Rural Family Support bosom of the RSL today in a ceremony at 3720 Adjournment 30 Oct 1996

the RSL's south-eastern HQ in New Farm. The welfare of all former servicemen That's when the National Servicemen's and women of all kinds should be Association of Australia will officially important to this country. become a sub-branch of the League. A Certainly their contribution should not sadly belated formality for many ex- be treated as if it never happened." Nashos who recall that for years after I urge all ex-national servicemen to join that Vietnam they weren't even welcome to join the RSL as ordinary members. It's association.The welfare of former servicemen hoped that today's ceremony will apply and women of all kinds should be important to balm to some of yesterday's differences. " this country. Certainly, their contribution should not be treated as if it never happened. So I That ceremony took place and it was, I urge all ex-national servicemen and women to understand, a first in Australia. join this association. I repeat: a first in Australia. The member for Fitzroy, Mr Pearce, did A recent article headed "Queensland not believe that I had been a national Forms its own R.S.L. Sub-Branch" in the RSL serviceman and asked me to prove that I had newsletter stated— completed my national service. I very well "An application by the Queensland knew that I had completed it and I said that it branch of the Association to the South was up to him to prove it if he did not believe East District of the RSL for permission to me on the matter. His questioning of my start its own Sub Branch has been national service was mainly because of an granted. The Sub Branch is completely article that appeared in the Courier-Mail on 5 different to the N.S. Association of September 1996, which stated that I had Queensland and there is no obligation for served in Papua New Guinea when in fact I members to join the new Sub Branch. told the reporter, Fran Metcalf, that I did training at Puckapunyal. For the benefit of the It will however give Queensland a member for Fitzroy, I point out that I have voice within the RSL. The new Sub available my Army ID card and my certificate Branch will be known as the National of discharge dated 26 July 1972. Servicemen's Sub Branch of the Returned Services League of Australia. The two-minute speech that I gave on this matter received television, radio and press NSW has been reviewing its possible coverage. The National Servicemen's involvement in its own RSL Sub Branch and this will be discussed at our AGM in Association also received many telephone and February." written inquiries about this commemorative medal. In Townsville on 5 September 1996, The spokesperson for NSAA, Mr Spring, this matter made the front page of the said— Townsville Bulletin, and over the following "After Vietnam, no politician wanted weeks comments were made in the same to know about National Service. Many paper in the Letters to the Editor column. My Nashos were not told of their entitlements office also received letters in relation to the after discharge from the Army. wearing of the medal. One letter, which For a long time they couldn't even appeared in the Letters to the Editor column, join the RSL as ordinary members. was from the member for Thuringowa. Under Vietnam Veterans began to receive more the heading "Grubby Exercise", Mr McElligott recognition in the late 1980's, but National had this to say— Servicemen still remained forgotten. "Somehow or other I got dragged . . . into Mr Tanti's grubby little exercise to get his photograph in the paper and on All we're trying to do is make sure television wearing his medal. that our members' service is recognised and that they are looked after if All I did was ask what the medal was necessary. and I certainly didn't attack Mr Tanti or his medal." The official linking of the NSAA with the RSL at the weekend should go some He did that through other means. The letter way to making those goals a reality. stated further— It might also result in a much-needed "If Frank wants to buy himself a boost to both groups, as some 7,000 ex- medal or swan around in a kilt, that's up Nashos have joined the NSAA nationally to him." and there are up to 300,000 more That is fair enough. potential members around the country. Time expired. 30 Oct 1996 Adjournment 3721

Mr P. Kelly condemned to a back room. The lousy Mr NUNN (Hervey Bay) (7.12 p.m.): Mr mongrels would not give him a VER. Speaker, firstly let me congratulate you on It is a travesty and it should not have having your 97-year-old father in the gallery happened. This man had dragged health into today. I must say that for a 97-year-old man to the 1990s and past it, yet what did the climb those blasted steps outside this place Government do with him? It threw him on the says to me that he had no trouble running scrap heap, and he was not the only one. scrubbers and kneecapping them all. He and I However, I have to say that I am proud to be would probably have had a great time. entertaining him tonight. The person who put However, I have a parallel for Mr Speaker him in the Gulag, Health Minister Mike Horan, because tonight I have a person in the gallery can come and shake Paul Kelly's hand if he of whom I am extremely proud. I refer to Mr wishes, because we will be in the Strangers Paul Kelly, who was—and in my opinion Dining Room later on. A lot of other people will should still be—the best regional director of be shaking his hand because they know that health in Queensland. He served the Wide he is a person of merit. Bay area and Queensland very, very well. It is very, very difficult to get good men. Mr SPEAKER: Order! Is he 97? When good men speak the truth, evil does not Mr NUNN: No, but given his courage flourish. Paul Kelly fought against the and fortitude, he will live to be 97 and his combined might of the Maryborough medical memory will live on after him. Having said that, Mafia, as it is known—the Maryborough I want to say that without Paul Kelly the specialist group—which was committed to one distribution of health care in the Wide Bay purpose, and that was to control the area would not be what it is today. Given all distribution of health care in that area to the the insults that were thrown not only at the detriment of ordinary people. When the Labor service during that time but also at his running Party came to power in 1989, one could not of it, I say that he was a man of courage and get a public patient into a public hospital he was a man who had the courage of his because it was full of private patients, who convictions. He stood by the people of Hervey were being looked after by those very people Bay, Maryborough, Bundaberg and all of the about whom I have spoken. However, I will say other rural places from Wondai, Murgon, this: although people such as Paul Kelly may Cherbourg, Mundubbera, Gayndah and be uncommon, they are not extinct, and with Biggenden—all of those places that had little or without the change of Government, they will hospitals that were literally falling down around come again into our areas and into our their ears—and brought those hospitals up to communities to look after people in regional a standard which, although it was not Queensland. That is what we are supposed to extravagant, gave to those people a standard be doing—looking after the people of regional of health care which they never imagined that Queensland, not fiddling around with a they would have in their lifetimes. It was a centralised bureaucracy. We had people in network of health care that came from a truly regional areas who could walk into the regional professional administrator, and it is health centre and get a decision from the top administrators such as Paul Kelly whom the man in the area. That is what used to happen Government has done away with. under regional health. It cannot happen now. However the big jewel in Paul Kelly's Time expired. crown is the establishment of the new Hervey Bay Hospital. The first stage of that Volunteer Involvement Program and hospital—130 beds of a 300-bed Supplementary Recognition Awards hospital—could not have come about if it had not been for Paul Kelly. Guess what the Mr HEALY (Toowoomba North) Government did with Paul Kelly? It took him (7.17 p.m.): A couple of weeks ago, I had the out of that position and brought him to pleasure of presenting the Volunteer Brisbane where he gave the Government Involvement Program and Supplementary advice which it could not get from the scurvy Recognition Awards on behalf of the Minister blokes whom it had working for it who knew for Emergency Services and Minister for Sport, nothing. Once the Government had milked Mick Veivers. Tonight, I would like to inform him of all he knew, it put Paul Kelly in its the House of the winners of these important Gulag. The Government gave him the Courier- awards, who rightly deserve to be recognised Mail, and the highlight of his day was to read throughout the community. the Courier-Mail. One of the best professional The main award of the night went to health administrators in Australia was Queensland's Little Athletics Association. The 3722 Adjournment 30 Oct 1996

Little Athletics Association was awarded the proud of this group—was Toowoomba's Outstanding State Organisation prize for its Glennie Gymnastics Club in the Junior Sport innovative volunteer recruitment and training Young Persons Leadership Development initiatives. Award category. The club received the award Little Athletics needs something like 80 for its innovative methods of involving and volunteers for every competition it runs. I am training young volunteers in all aspects of sure that most members of State Parliament gymnastics. The club relied on volunteers to would have been involved in Little Athletics in organise and run its carnivals, which often some way either as spectators, supporters or involve more than 200 participants. even as participants. Anyone who has been Brisbane's Buranda Therapy Group won involved would know well that it is the the State Coaching Centre Models of hardworking volunteers who make the athletics Excellence Award. The group, which is made carnivals the successes that they are. Many of up of coaches of the Gateway District Bowls Australia's past, present and future sporting Association, works closely with staff from the champions come through the Little Athletics QE II and Princess Alexandra Hospitals, the ranks. With approximately 50 events in one Eventide Home and the Buranda Special day spread over 10 age groups and an School to encourage patients and students to average of 175 children competing, the play bowls as part of their remedial association really does have to manage its rehabilitation. The group received its award for volunteers well or there would be utter chaos. the innovative "buddy" system that it has With the need for so many volunteers, the developed to skill new coaches entering the association has simplified its recruitment program. Each of the coaches specialises in practices by giving free automatic membership disability areas such as cerebral palsy, to the parents of all children signing up with intellectual disabilities, Alzheimer's disease or Little Athletics. Little Athletics has also Down syndrome and then pass on their surveyed its branches throughout the State to knowledge and skills to other coaches who identify the qualifications and needs of their want to join the group. The therapy group's volunteers so that the association can better efforts have resulted in over 900 people with plan future education and training programs. various disabilities now enjoying the The other major winner on the night was challenges and other benefits of being actively the Ipswich Brothers Basketball Association, involved in sport and recreation. The group is which received the Outstanding Achievement not resting on its laurels, either. It is currently Award in the club/community category. refining the program and developing a video Brothers won the award for its innovative and manuals which will be used Australiawide. practices in recruiting and managing the 200- The night's other winners were the plus volunteers needed to help run its Queensland Weight Lifting Association in the activities. The club is the biggest and one of State Coaching Centre Models of Excellence the most successful in the Ipswich basketball State Award and Equity Best Practice Award competition. This year it is fielding 33 teams categories. the Fitness, Sport and Recreation and catering for 105 senior players and 240 Industry Training Council in the Statewide children. Brothers is very big on listening to its Services Award division and the Leadership volunteers and recognising their efforts which, Strategy for Young People with a Disability in turn, has helped the club to retain them and group in the State Junior Sport Young keep them happy. One of the club's most Persons Leadership Development Award successful initiatives is the introduction of category. delegates to support each of the different age groups. Each age delegate is an experienced The State awards are conducted annually team manager who provides ongoing by the Queensland Government's Office of education and support for the volunteer team Sport and Recreation to publicly recognise and managers and coaches. The delegate is also reward those sport and recreation able to raise the concerns of volunteers at organisations which have shown commitment management meetings. to their volunteers. It was an absolute pleasure to be there on the night. I congratulate all of Both the Little Athletics Association and those organisations who were involved in the Ipswich Brothers Basketball Club received a night. I congratulate those that did not win and trophy and a cheque for $1,000. They will now those that did win, which, of course, went go on to represent Queensland at the national away with their cheques and their trophies. It awards in Canberra in December. shows the importance of volunteers in groups Among the other award winners that I and organisations right around the State. I would like to mention—and I am particularly congratulate the Minister for this continuing 30 Oct 1996 Adjournment 3723 important initiative. I think it was a fitting tribute of the discipline standards of previous years, for those organisational volunteers. as I understand he had a reputation as a fairly Time expired. stern disciplinarian in the classroom. From a personal point of view, I deplore the hurt and distress the sisters have suffered Neerkol Children's Orphanage from the allegations and subsequent insults in Mr MULHERIN (Mackay) (7.23 p.m.): the media which flowed on as a result of the On 13 September 1996, the Minister for ministerial statement. In common with my Families, Youth and Community Care, the mother, father, four brothers and sister, I Honourable Kevin Lingard, made a ministerial received a convent education and I am very statement in this House concerning the proud of it—we all feel for the Sisters of Mercy. Neerkol Children's Orphanage. That statement A number of members have expressed similar concerned six complaints from former feelings about their education by and gratitude residents on the child sexual abuse hotline to the Sisters of Mercy. I am sure that within the Minister's department. The callers members from both sides of the House who alleged a pattern of incidents of physical and, live in the Rockhampton Diocese will attest to in some cases, sexual abuse by the priests the fine work and service provided to the wider and nuns at the orphanage. community by the Sisters of Mercy over the It now transpires that, at the time of the last 100 years. Minister's statement to the House, the phone Many former children of Neerkol have calls regarding Neerkol numbered six of the contacted the Rockhampton Sisters of Mercy, 140 calls received by the Minister's telling them how bitterly they resented having Department, yet for some reason the Minister their only home put on trial in the Parliament selectively mentioned only the Neerkol and in the media. These people feel the same complaints. No verification of the allegations about Neerkol as we feel about our childhood was made at the time and to date they have homes, and are very hurt and upset. They still not been substantiated. No contact was resent the suggestion that the home in which made with the Rockhampton Sisters of Mercy they were cared for and educated can no who had run the Neerkol Children's longer be spoken of with pride. Orphanage. In fact, the first the Rockhampton The Rockhampton Sisters of Mercy Sisters of Mercy heard about the allegations congregation is fully conscious that when was from reporters following the ministerial individual allegations of abuse are made, they statement. must be investigated. In fact, the sisters and This most insensitive ministerial the Diocese of Rockhampton have promised statement, of one minute's duration, did more every assistance to the appropriate authorities. harm to the magnificent reputation of the In conclusion, I point out that it does this Rockhampton Sisters of Mercy congregation House no credit when unsubstantiated than any other criticism levelled at them in the allegations are made under parliamentary over 100 years that they have been of caring privilege and with complete disregard for the for orphans, caring for the sick in their distressing and harmful consequences of hospitals and teaching children in their statements made without any sort of convent schools. These allegations have been accountability. I believe the ministerial most distressing to every member of the statement on the Neerkol Children's congregation of 122 sisters. Many of the Orphanage fits into this category. sisters served at Neerkol before 1978, the year it ceased to operate as an orphanage. Most of the sisters served at Neerkol in conditions Commissions of Inquiry which today would be considered as Mr CARROLL (Mansfield) (7.26 p.m.): impossibly hard and, over a period of almost a Tonight, I wish to answer some misleading century, they have cared for more than 4,000 statements made by the member for Logan in children. a Brisbane radio interview this morning. I am sure that all members of this House According to a transcript of his statement on acknowledge that discipline was much stricter that radio program, which I have, he made two in family life and all aspects of education even statements which I believe are wrong. as recently as 1978, when the Neerkol Firstly, the member alleged that the Children's Orphanage ceased to operate, than Government is intervening in the it is today and allegations of physical abuse independence of the judicial process. His have to be judged in that light. As a former comments in that regard arise from the school teacher, the Minister should be aware resignation statement of Mr Carruthers. The 3724 Adjournment 30 Oct 1996 process in which Mr Carruthers was engaged with equivalent powers; one is not greater than simply is not a judicial process. the other. The Carruthers commission was I rely on a couple of articles, the first of established by the CJC and utilised one judge. which appears in the Australian Law Journal, The wisdom in the later Connolly/Ryan volume 52 of October 1978, written by the commission having two judges now can be honourable Sir Murray McInerney, a judge of seen. the Supreme Court of Victoria at the time. He Curiously, the resignation letter of Mr states that it is highly appropriate for retired Carruthers seems to have been well timed to judges to be appointed to commissions and allow the Opposition to attempt a few free royal commissions as men of enormous kicks. It is a pity that they missed in all experience in public life, with prestige and the attempts. reputation of the judiciary. He states that they The second angle of Mr Goss' statement have the ability acquired through many years that I challenge is his claim that the Carruthers of experience as barristers or solicitors and, inquiry was to be torpedoed by the second subsequently, as judges to sift evidence and commission of inquiry. That is simply not true assess the credibility of witnesses. In this case, and there is no foundation for that claim. as Mr Carruthers himself claims in his Returning to my first point, there is an resignation statement, he was assessed as interesting decision of the Privy Council in such a person. 1983, as reported in the New Zealand Law The article upon which I rely states—— Reports, on the Erebus royal commission in "Moreover, like all executive action, which the distinction between judicial or court the proceedings and findings of Royal inquiries and Executive inquiries is further Commissions may properly be, and defined. frequently are, the subject of public The important and very wide-ranging controversy." powers which are possessed by commissions of inquiry are much wider and do the Mr Carruthers must have known that. He preparatory and investigative work for possible should have been aware that there would be later court inquiries. It is that kind of inquiry comments and public discussion about his that I think, for example, should be allegation. He should not simply bolt when the established—— heat in the kitchen warms up a little. Time expired. The Carruthers commission of inquiry and the Connolly/Ryan commission of inquiry are Motion agreed to. both simply Executive commissions of inquiry The House adjourned at 7.30 p.m.