Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

FRIDAY, 9 DECEMBER 1898

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Swpply. [9 DECEMBER.] Supply. 1445

FRIDAY, 9 DECEMBER, 1898, like to see holding a higher office ; but there were a number of officers in the department who had The SPEAKER took the chair at half-past 3 Practically attained as high a position as it was o'clock. possible for them to do for many years to come. QUESTION. They could not go on increasing their salaries every year, but that officer was well deserving CLASSIFIED OFFICERS, POSTAL DEPARTMENT. of an increase, and had been overlooked on one Mr. FOGARTY asked the Chief Secretary­ or two previous occasions. !. Are there at present in the General Post Office, Mr. KEOGH noticed that, while the late doing the work of classified officers. men who do not Under Secretary had received £800, the present belong to any department of the public service? 2. Are ·there men belonging to tbe department classi­ Under Secretary was only paid £750. ·what fi,ed officers at the same time restricted to inferior was the reason for the reduction? work? The HOME SECRETARY: Mr. Heeney 2. If so, what rBason has the department for employ­ had been promoted to the position of Under ing the former to the detriment of the latter? Secretary from that of chief clerk, where he only The TREASURER (for the Chief Secretary) received .£500 a year. A rise of 50 per cent. was replied- a pretty good one. !. Yes; temporarily employed. Mr. KEOGH: He has to perform the same 2. All classified officers continue to pm·form their duties as the other man. ordinary duties. The HOME SECRETARY knew that, but 3. Temporary men are only employed when required his predecessor had occupied the office of Under owing to pressure of work, etc., and are lial;Jle to be Secretary for a great number of years. He dispensed with at any time. hoped that Committee would give Mr. Heeney LOCAL WORKS LOANS ACTS AMEND­ the full salary of .£800 a year-which was the MENT BILL-BRITISH PROBATES tip-top salary paid in the public service-when BILL- TOWNSVILLE MUNICIPAL he :had been Under Secretary-as he hoped he LOAN ACT REPEAL BILL. would-for as long a period as Mr. Hume. ASSENT. Mr. SIM asked whether any provision had The SPEAKER announced .the receipt of been made for placing a sum of money on the messages from His Excellency the Governor, Estimates for a special commissioner to inspect intimating that the Royal assent had been given the district in the north-west of Carpentaria, in to these Bills. accordance with the promise made by the Minister? HARBOUR BOARDS ACT AMENDMENT The H0~1E SECRETARY: That came on BILL- HARBOUR BOAl·m in a later vote, but, as it was under"tood that BILL. the whole department could be discus•ed on the l!'IRST READINGS. first vote, he would tell the hon. member now. The House having, in Committee of the Whole, An officer appeared amongst the land com­ affirmed the desirableness cf introducing these missioners as being stationed at Boulia, who Bills, on the motion of the TREASURER, they would be a travelling commissioner. It had not were read a first time, and their second readings been thought desirable to make the appointment made Orders of the Day for Tuesday next. until Parliament voted the salary, but probably the headquarters of the commissioner would be at ADJOURNMENT-SEPARATION DAY. Boulia. He hoped to obtain a large amount of The TREASURER said: I move that this valuable information from his reports. Of House, at its rising, do adjourn until Tuesday course there was not sufficient work for a com­ next. missioner to do at Boulia et present, but it was Mr. DUNSFORD: I think we ought to hear the most central point, and he would travel both SJme reason for this motion. 'fhere is important north, south, east, and west from there. business to be done, and country metnbers desire Mr. STEWART very much regretted being to get away and eat their Christmas dinners at compelled to call attention to the continual sales home. We do not want to sit here after Christ­ of country lands which were going on. It was mas; and, as the Government would not accept agreed to not only by members of that Committee, my suggestion that we should sit on Saturdays but by the great majority of the electors of the and Sundays, and sit twenty-four hours a day, colony that the sale of country lands should they should tell us what is the reason for this only be resorted to in the last extremity-when holiday. We ought to go right on with business the Treasury was depleted and it was considered until it is finished. inadvisable or impossible to impose additional The HOME SECRETARY: Aren't you a separa­ taxation. But those sales were going on at tionist? a time when the Treasurer issued statements Question put and passed. showing that month after month the revenue was expanding by leaps and bounds-although SUPPLY. that was not due to the good manage­ RESUMPTION OF COMMITTEE. ment of the Government, but owing to the SECRETaRY FOR PUBLIC LANDS. kindness of nature and the energy of the people The H.OME SECRETARY moved that of the colony. .£7,275 be granted for salaries. The alterations HONOURABLE MEMBERS 011 the Government were only of a trifling character. The vote W'-'S side: What about the drought out West? only increased hy .£15. There were four pro­ Mr. STEWART : The policy of the Govern­ bationers at .£70 each. The accountant was to ment, taken by itself, without any of the receive an increase of .£30, which he was natural advantages which belonged to the colony, thoroughly entitled to. Something like .£125,000 would have been sufficient to stifle every industry, passed through his hands in the year, and con­ and reduce the colony to a state of insolvency. sidering the importance of the department, The CHAIRMAN: I would remind the hon. and comparing his work with that of the member that the policy of the Government is accountants in other departments, he deserved not before the Committee at the pre•ent time. an increase. His predecessor was pain £475 a That can only be discussed when the Speaker is year, while the present accountant would only in the chair. The matter now .before the Com­ receive £370 this year. The record clerk was to mittee is the vote for the Lands Department, receive an increase of £30. He was a very old and I must ask the hon. member to

Mr. STEWART : I was discussing the land the courtesy to tell him that he was going to bring policy of the Government. up that question he should have been very glad The CHAIRMAN: I hope the hon. member to have had the information there, but that one will not misunderstand me. "When I rose the fact knocked his figures kite high.. The hon. hon. member was discussing "the policy of the member said those sales took place when Government." the colony was in a prosperous state, and that Mr. STEWART : In selling land. again was one of those beautiful pieces of The HOME SECRETARY : The financial policy misrepresentation they so frequently heard from generally. the hon. member for North . The The CHAIHMAN : I think the hon. member colony was not prosperous at the time those sftles forgot about the lands. were effected. 'l'he hon. member had carefully Mr. STEWART: Coming then to the ques .. disguised the fact, as far ae he was able to do, tion of land sales he found that by the Act of 1897 that those sales took place before the 31st of the utmost area the Government could sell in December, 1897, and they were now close on any one year was 150,000 acres. It was generally 1899. During 1897 the leader of the hon. mem­ understood that those sales of land should not ber's party was nothing better than a calamity be resorted to except in the colony's extremity. howler ; according· to his statements then the But what was the position to-day? The revenue colony was simply going to the dogs. It was not was expanding, and the colony was pwsperous, until this year that things began to look a bit and yet ·according to the last annual report of brighter for the colony. If the hon. member for the Lands Department the sales of land last year North Rockhampton had gone to the Lands wer~ larger than they had been in any year of Office and got the particulars of land sales up to the colony's history. The average saies per date-which would have been a fair thing for annum from 1869 to 1892 were 53,000 acres. In him bo have done-he would have found that the the year 1893 the Government sold 43,000 acres; state of things now was very different from what in 1894, 31,000; in 1895, 28,000; in 1896, 21,000; it was during 1897 .. but last year they sold 149,223 acres, or within Mr. STEWART: As a matter of fact the 747 acres of the limit allowed by the law. senior member for Ruckhampton had told him The Committee were entitled to some explana­ thal; the return of which he had given notice as tion as to why those sales were being continued. to sales of land would not be opposed by the Go­ Another feature in connection with the matter vernment, but it was called ''not formal " yester­ was that the area sold in the Southern portion of day. the colony was 4,862 acres ; in the N orLhern 'fhe Hm1E SECRETARY: Not by me. I was division, 51,911 acres; and in the Central not here. division, 93,437 acres. Did that not point to the Mr. STEW ART: Either by the hon. gentle· fact that the Southern portion of the colony, man or the Secretary for Lands. which held the preponderance of political power, The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC LANDS : I was not was simply exploiting the Northern and Central here either. divisions? \Vhy did not the department sell Mr. STEWART :\Vell, somebody called" not land in the Southern portion of the colony, where formal." settlement was closer? The Government knew The HOME SECRETARY : Give us a little truth. that some day they would have separation in the Mr. STE\VART: Some person on the Minis­ North and Centre, and that those divisions terial bench called "not formal." It did not would become indPpendent colonies, but they matter to him who it was. The hon. gentleman were taking very good care that when those disputed his figures, oO he would read them from divisions got tbeir independence their lands and the report. The following were the sales:­ assets should be swallowed up by the huge Burke district, 40 acres ; Cook, 6 ; Darling vortex in the South. Downs, 404; Gregory North, 51,7t\2; Kennedy Mr. LEAHY : You will repudiate the sales. North, HiS; Kennedy South, 15; Leichhardt, Mr. STEWART : There was not a man in 2,829; Maranoa, 94; Mitchell, 86,173; Moreton the House more given to repudiation than the East, 1,049; Moreton \Vest, 1,259; Port Curtis, hon. m em her for Bulloo, who was the represen ta­ +,800; \Varrego, 660; ·w,de Bay and Burnett, tive of a class in this colony who had done 563 acres. Now, unle;Os the Mitchell district nothing but repudiate ever since it had had a was in the Southern division the hon. gentle­ footing in the colony. But they saw through the man's figures could not be correct. The head­ hon. member's little game, and would endeavour ing of the return was " Return of all lands pro­ to checkmate him. However, he should now claimed for sale by auction, those sold by auction give the Home Secretary an oppcrtunity of ex­ and their subsequent selection, and those with­ plaining why those sales of land were being drawn from sale during the year 1897." He continued. protested against the lordly manner in which The HOME SECRETARY had not got the the Home Secretary told members they could official figures to correct the statement of the find out the information for themselves, and he hon. member, but he was certain that it was could tell the hon. gentleman that he intended wrong all the same. to have the information no matter how long the Mr.. STEW ART: Why haven't you got the House was kept sitting for it. He wanted to figures? know why the Government were selling land, 'rhe HOME SECRETARY: Became he had and what they were doing with the money? not got the Lands Office there. The hon. gentleman accused the leader of the . Mr. STEW ART : Why don't you bring informa­ Opposition of being a calamity howler in 1897. twn to the House ? The HOME SECRETARY : So he was. The HOME SECRETARY: Why did not Mr. STEW ART : According to the Govern­ the bon. member bring manners here? He ment the country had never been anything but knew that the hon. member w'"s wrong in his prosperuus, but when they wanted an excuse for figures, becausf\ 30,000 acree. of land were sold favouring individuals or financial inHtitutions last yea.r on one run in the Southern district. they were glad to fall hack on the statement that Mr. STEW ART: Which run was that? the country was not prosperous at a particular 'l'he HOME SECRETARY: Boombah. The period. The House was entitled to know who hon. member could find out all the rest for bought those lands and the areas in which they himself. But· that at all events showed that he were sold. The information ought to be in the was wrong in his statement that 4,000 acres was report. the extent of land sold in the Southern part of The HOME SECRETARY: The hon. mem· . If the hon. member had done him ber wanted to know why the Goverm11ent was Supply. [9 DECEMBER.] Supply. 1447

continuing to sell land as in 1897, hut under­ who was chosen in consequence of his knowledge lying that assumption there was an untruth. of the district, and the department acted upon 'l'hey were not selling laud in anything like the his recommendation. To run down a of same area as in 1897. If the hon. member had the Gazette, and assume that all the land thrown called for a return a fortnight ago it probably open was of the same quality wa.~ most ridiculous. would have been supplied by this time. He Probably the higher priced land in the North knew nothing about the hon. gentleman's com­ was first-class scrub land, while that thrown plaint as to a return having been blocked yester­ open at Ipswich would necessarily be inferior, day. because all the good land was selected twenty Mr. STEW ART: Somebody blocked it. or thirty years ago, and there was no more The HOME SECRETARY : He was not Crown land there worth anything. Of course, here, neither was the !::lecretary for Lands when it wa8 impossible for him to explain in each the motion was called on, so that both the hon. particular case why it was that the price was member'• statements were untrue. fixed at that figure. If the hon. member Mr. NEWELL : A great deal of settlement took the average price in each district, and had taken place in the !::louthern division, and it then made a compttrison, there might be some­ had occurred to him to inquire why that ]Jortion thing in it, hut even then he would be of the colony was attractmg attention, while the leaving out the relative quality of the land in North, with equally good land and equal facili­ the ~ame district. He understood that the land ties, was not attracting settlers. From an about JI/Iareeba and Herherton was of the very advertisement which he had ~xtracted from a best description, while some of the land in the Brisbane paper, he noticed that land was thrown Central district was very poor, and it was open to selection at Bundaherg at 4~d. per acre unreasonable to suppose that the same price rent, with the purchasing price at 15s. for con­ should be charged for each. ditional selection, and £1 for unconditional. At Mr. NEWELL : If these prices were fixed by Bowen six portions were advertised for selection, the land commissioners, it was about time thaG the annual rent being 6d. and 9d. per acre those officers were shifted from one district to and the purchasing orice .£1 and .£1 10s. pe; another, so that they might be able to compare acre for conditional selection, and £1 6s. 8d, the different qualitiee of the land. It was very to £2 for unconditional selection. At Charle­ strs 4~d. per acre, asked for a certain piece of land .in the North be whrle the purchasmg pnce was 15s. for condi­ asked a high price for it when a man asking for tional and .£1 for unconditional selection. a piece of land in the South could get it for a low At Winton it was 6d. per acre rental, and the price? purchasing price obl for conditional and The Ho~rE SECRETARY : It all depends on the .£1 6s. Sd. for unconditional selection. He quality of the land. We have been asked for wished to know how it was that land was so years to have land classified, and now you are cheap in the South compared with the North. objecting to rt. Was it because the land was inferior, or because Mr. NEWELL thought it very strange that there was a less rainfall? At Wintnn there was it should be classified at the highest price in the certainly not so great a rainhll as in parts of the North whether it was of the highest quality or South, although it was greater at Geraldton. It not. It struck him that whut was wanted was was nqt so very long ago since the Government to have settlement directed to the !::louth, and he asked £2 for land near Herberton ; and in fact could not see why if a man asked for a piece of he had paid that price for land there. He land in the North he should have to pay so much wanted to know the reason for these differences. more for it than in the South. The HOME SECRETARY did not think The HOME SECRETARY : I could show you the hon. member had adopted a fair method of plenty of land thrown open in the South at .£2. comparison when he quoted a few selections that Mr. N:B;WELL thought it would he a good happened to be collected together in the same thing if some of the land commissioners in the Gazette. The land at Georgetown, fur instance, North were given a six montbs' holiday in the might be first-class land, and quite close to the South that they m1ght have an opportunity of town. comparing the quality of the land in the different Mr. NEWELL: It is on Green Hills Station. portions of the colony. Heavy scrub land in t]Je The HOME SECRETARY : The recom­ North cost from £8 to .£12 an acre to cleur it, mendation was made by the local commissioner, and he could not see why people should be asked 144S Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. to give more for it than for land in the South. that land previous to taking it up was less than £1, Some of the land in the list he referred to was he couldnotincrease his holding. A good many had near , and it could not be said thnt taken up land years ago when the values were was not good land. pretty high. 'l'hose values did not exist now, and The HOME SECRETARY: All the good land near he would very much like t0 see the Act amended Toowoomba was selected years ago. so as to enable those 160-acre men to increase Mr. NEWELL : This was land in the parish their holdings to 320 acres. There was plenty of of Terry, and the annual rental put upon it was land in the district for which 10s. to lf)s. per only 4?!d. per acre. The question was one which acre would be fair value, and if a slight amend­ should be looked into. With respect to the ment were u,ade in the Act those people would Green Hills land being well watered, it could be able to increase their holdings. He was sorry not be said that the land at Winton was well the Minister for Lands was not present, but he watered when they had to have a bore there to was satisfied that the hon. gentleman in charge get a supply of water. of the Estimate had svmpathy with the small Mr. KING had never been in the district of selector, and he hoped· that next session some­ the hon. member for Woothakata, but he was thing would be done on the lmes he had sug­ 'led to believe that the land there was very good. gested in the interests of agricultural settlement. There was some good land in his own district, The land on Maranoa flats was good, but unfor­ but there was also some very inferior land there. tunately when there was a fairly good fall of To get a proper classification of land it should rain it did not come at the right time. If it was be overhauled thoroughly, and it could be more distributed whPn the seed was going in it divided with advantage into seven or eight would be all right; but as it was now there had classes. With reference to the Maranoa flats, been four bad seasons, and with the p~ices the he did not know whether the hon. member people had paid he was satisfied that unless referred to the people or to the lands on the banks something was done a good deal of the land of the Maranoa River. There was some fairly would be thrown up, and he did not want to see good land on the banks of that river, but there that. was not a very extensive area of it. People had The HoN. G. THORN trusted that the salary selected that land at a purchasing price of £2 of the present Under Secretary for Lands would an acre, and that was as high as any of be put up to the same amount as was paid to his the land in the hon. member's district. When predecessor. He must congratulate the present the 1897 Act was being passed he thought it Home Secretary on the successful way in which possible that some of those people would get he had worked the 1884 and 1897 Acts-not some relief under it, but lw was satisfied that he believed in either of them. There WBre now that they could not. They might get many reasons why he was opposed to the present some relief in a reduction of purchasing price, Act, and one of the greatest reasonq was that the though the Bill did not say they should. He best lands of the colony were thrown open as bad a letter from one selector on the subject, in grazing farms instead of agricultural farms under which he mentioned that he had 320 acres, with its provisions, notably in the Centra!. division. He a rental of 6d. an acre and a purchasing price of was anxwus that that division should be treated .£2. If that gentleman took advantage of the as favourably as the South. If the hon. mem­ 1897 Act, and came under it, he might get a ber wanted the Central di.vision to be thickly reduction of 10s. on the purchasing price, but populated he would see that the Minister did not his annual rent would then be 9d. insteadof6d. per throw open so many grazing farms, but threw acre; and if he got a reduction of 5s. his annual open more agricultural farms in small areas. He rent would be 10!Jd. So that those people could had seen wheat grown in the Central division not come under the new Act, He agreed that equal to anything on the Darling Downs, if not the price for conditional selections was too high, better ; he might say quite equal to South Aus­ but for unconditional selection there should be a tralian wheat. It was of such a texture that it good purchasing price and a fairly high rent woulcl make more loaves to the ton than the to stop dummying. The conditionnl selector wheat grown in the South. Grazing selection in going on to the land to live on it and bring up the Central division ought to be stopped at once, his family on it might well get some concessions. and the cuuntry devoted to agriculture. He had 'l'hat selector said in his letter that he had taken never believed in the theorv of taking land from up 320 acres under the 1884 Act at 6d. per acre one grazier and giving it to another. Indeed, he per year, and a purchasing price of £2 per acre. was of opinion that that part of the Land Act He had already paid 6s. 6d. during thirteen of 1.884 which took aw:J.y half his land from the years, and if he paid 10~d. for another seven squatter and gave only a short lea~e for the years that would be 12s. 7~d. per acre for the remainder was the great cause of the crisis of twenty years. That would be the extent of his J 893. Money was withdrawn from that sort of lease, and at the expiration of that time he speculation, for it was not likely that capi­ would have to pay in cash .£1 2s. 4~d. per acre. talists would lend monev to pastoralists with such He was satisfied that the majority of hon. mem­ a precarious tenure. He trusted the Minister bers considered that was too high a price for would discourage the giving away of the tit-bits land in an arid district like the Maranoa flats. of the colony in grazing farms, more especially Of course there was no time to do any­ in the Central division. \Yith regard to the thing in the way of legislation this session Gilbert River, he had never been in that part of to relieve those people, but he made these the country, but he knew th~re was excellent remarks because possibly they might tend to permanent water, anrl he had no doub.t that, •omething being done later on to provide when railway communication was extended to for a revaluation in the case of those original Georgetown, good wheat, equal to anything in selectors, and bring their land down to a the South, would be grown there extensively. fair value-say £1 per acre. No dr. with their families. He would just like to refer ·rhe SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Nonsense! to another matter. \Vhen the 1897 Act was It is perfectly dry now. going through a clause was inserted to enable an The HoN. G. THORN: At Herberton there original selector of 160 acres to increase his hold­ was any amount of good land. The hon. ing up to 320acres, but the provision was guarded member' for Kennedy held a tit-bit of 10,000 in such a way that unless the purchasing price ef acres. He hoped the hon. member would offer [9 D:moEMBlm.] 1449 it to the Government at a reasonable figure, so the manager of Dalgety and Co. on the matter; that it might become closely settled. He could but the facts bore out his statement that the understand that the Secretrtry for Railways, lands had been dummied in the first instance, who did not want close settlement, was in favour and thrown up on condition that they would be of grazing farms ; but the next census would offered at 10s. per acre. That was the kind of show that the result of that system was that the thing which was taking place in the Central South had nearly doubled in population while district, and against which the peoplP of the dis­ the Centre and the North had remained com­ trict rebelled. 'fhen there had been the salt: of paratively stationary. He wanted to see all the Lang-morn lands, which had been arranged parts of the colony thickly populated, and that by an hon. member o( that House. One family could be brought about if the Secretary for had purchased the whole area thrown open, and Lands would only administer the Land Act recently the same family selected another large wisely. lot of the same country at very short notice, and Mr. KERR : It was astonishing that the hon. on which a gentleman in Rockhampton made an member for Fassifern, who was a native of the offer to settle a number of families, if he was colony, should know so little about it. The best allowed a certain time. thing he could do when the House rnse was to The HmrE SECRETARY: What do you call take his swag and go into the Central district; short notice? It must be advertised for a month at it would open his eyes somewhat. If the hon. least. member knew anything about that district he Mr. KERR : Did the hLted 4,600 acres, were all purchased by stated was not correct was the return prepared Dalgety and Company, Limited, as agents for the Port­ by the hon. member himself, in which he said land Downs Pastoral Company, at the upset price, 10s. that in 1897 there was only 4,000 odd acres per acre, the total proceeds of the sale amounting to of land sold in the Southern portion of the £2,300. colony. Exception had been taken to his statement, and Mr. KERR: He made hat up from official he had afterwards been privately interviewed by documents. 1450 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supp~1J·

The HOME SECRETARY: Then he made selected for twelve months the rent should be it up incorrectly. He was not responsible for reduced, and" after n, further term-if it still returns made np by the hon. member for North remained unselected-the rent should be further Rockhampton. As a matter of fact the Lands reduced. He trusted that the Lands Depart­ Department did not in a question of that sort ment would extend the experiment which had take any notice of the financial districts. He been tried at Bando of putting down horeswhich did not know whether the hon. member had would water three or four selections. Even included the Wide Bay and Burnett district in selectors in combination could not afford the the Central district, but he would find that on cost of a hore, but they would be willing and Baram ba alone 6, 900 acres were sold last were able to pay a fair interest charge on the year. cost of the bore. He hoped the department would The HoN. G. THORN: The hon. member for take this matter into serious consideration at an Barcoo knew very little about agricultural Jam1, early date. and he appe::,red most n,nxious that the pre>ent Mr. KERR: The hon. member for Fassifern pastoralists should continue in the colony. The had talked a lot of nonsense in reference to hon. member was not an advocate for close grazing farms being unoccupied in the Central settlement, like the hon. member for North district. Bailey was held by Mr. Trundel Rockhampton. The grazing farms the hon. and Mr. Young, and was occupied; the adjoin­ member referred to were taken up mainly by ing farm, Torness, was occupied hy Brown Southern people who did not reside on them Bros. Mr. Johnstone, of vVestwater, was also with their families, but occupied them by in the same vicinity; and Yandaroo was also bailiff. He had been informed thn,t there was occupied. In fact, the hon. member came before only one bona jide selector, "ho resided on his the Committee with a lot of fancies and gave land, settled on the' \Varrego grazing farms; and them out as facts. As a matter of fact he had that land was all fit for agricultural as well as no knowledge of what he spoke about, and his grazing purposes. The wheat crop on tlw staLernents with reference to those grazing farms Darling Downs was a failure this year, whereas was entirely wrong and misleading. in the Central division of the colony it was not a Mr. CROSS hoped people outside would not failure. take the hon. member for Fassifern any more Mr. DANIELS: Nonsense! seriously than hon. members took him. If the The HoN. G. THORN: It was a fact. He hon. member knew n,nything of the Central dis­ alluded particularly to the Clifton lands which trict he would not talk such utter nonsense. 'The were repurchased by the Government a little Lands Department had been blamed-to a cer­ while ago, and he was info•med by people from tain extent justifiably-for throwing open land there that the wheat crops in that district were as agricultural farms when it was really second almost a total failure. On the other hand the and third class grazing land. The greater por­ hon. member for Cambooya had shown him in tion of the Central district was more suitable for the library recently some samples of wheat three grazing than agriculture, although there were feet six inches high, with large ears and hard areas of very fine agricultural land. If the grain from the Central district. hon. member had kept his eyes open he would Mr. Cnoss : It was the hon. member for have known that the best use to which most Leichhardt who showed you those samples. of the Central district could be put was to The B:oN. G. THORN: At any rate those throw it open in grazing areas, as had been done. samples showed what the Central division of the He wao sorry the hon, gentleman stood up colony could do-that it could grow wheat and made RUCh extravagant statements, because better than the far-famed Darling Downs, and unfortunately people outside did not know the seeing that it could do that he was most anxious hon. member as he was known in the House. that the lands in the Central division should be Half his time he was only poking fun, and re:,erved for small settlement. He was anxious simply served the purpose of relieving the to see the Central district peopled as the South monotony of debate; but readers of Hansard was, and he maintained that that would never be would not understand that the hon. member brought about unless the land was thrown open had been speaking of a district which he knew in smaller areas. The hon. member for Leich­ absolutely nothing about. He knew of land in hardt need llf>t be ashamed of his diatrict, which the Clermont district which had been open as could produce almost anything. He was not agricultural farms for ten or eleven years, but like the hon. member fur Barcoo, who only wanted now the department had decided to throw it to Ree the Central district peopled with persons open as grazing farms he w,as convinced that walking the district with their blankets on every inch of it would be greedily taken up. their shoulders. In fact, both the hon. mem­ With regard to wheat-growing in the Central bers for Leichhardt and North Rockbampton district, it was known that about Springsure desired to see close settlement, and he and Peak Downs there was excellent wheat believed they were sincere in their profec,sions. land, but there was great difficulty on account He had not been all over the Central district, of the uncertainty of the seasons. That was the but he knew all about it, and it was a pity to see case in most parts of the colony, but in the Cen­ it so devoid of close settlement as it had been tral district growers were more dependent for years. upon the rainfall than on the Darling Downs. Mr. HOOD desired to draw attention to the The hon. member also forgot that, although land way the rents were fixed for grazing farms in the might be able to grow excellent wheat, it might far West. A lot of poor mulga country was be very indifferent agricultural land indeed ; in rented in a way that blocked settlement; the fact wheat was most prolific upon inferior land. rents were almost as high as those charged in the In South it was grown upon land that Central district:. The desire should be not onlv people in Queensland would not take up at all. to have the land taken up but to induce mE'n t'o The hon. member had lived in an agricultural stay upon it; and with such high rent and the district all his life, and his utter want of reliable want of water it was hopeless to expect the land information was most n,larming in an hon. mem­ to continue to be occupied. He knew of large ber who once had the great honour of controlling are::ts of country in the far West which had been the destinies of this colony. The fact that the lying idle for years because the rent was too hon. member for Fassifern should stand up in high. In the meantime the Crown was that House, and with an air of seriousness point getting only a nominal rent, as the land was out things which were ohviously so far from the liable to be taken up at any time. He fact, was a matter of great regret. would suggest that after land had remained un· At twenty minutes past 5 o'clock, Supply. [9 DECEMBER.] Supply. 1451

Mr. KEOGH called attention to the state of the 150,000 allowed by the Act. That was the Committee. position the hon. gentleman's own assertion had Quorum formed. placc•l him in, and the Committee should know The HoN. G. THORN: It was rather peculiar the truth of the matter. The hon. gentleman that he should have to stand up as the sole was quite wrong, for he now saw that, though champion of the Central districts, but he hoped there were 7, 791 acres proclaimed for sale in the the hon. member for Leichhardt would back him '\Vide Bay and Burnett division, 7,000 acres had up in what he had to say in regard to the Central been withdrawn. They had not been sold at all, division as a wheat-producing district. He was so that the hon. gentleman evidently did not aware that the Secretary for Railways held views know what had been going on in his own not unlike those of the hon. member for Clermont, department. and neither of them were anxious for agricultural The HOME SECRETARY : I am speaking entirely settlement. But he held that it was time that from memory, and my officers are, too. the Secretary for Lands and the Land Board set ::Yir. STEWAllT: He was outside the depart­ apart a large proportion of the Central division of ment altogether, and the hon. gentleman had the colony for agricultural settlement. He .,, as accused him of not knowing what he was talk­ sure that the land would soon be taken up if the ing about. He believed that the hon. gentleman price were reduced, but farmers could not afford knew all about it, but he did not want to tell the to pay 30s. and 40s. an acre for it. The price of C,munittee. He pleaded ignorance, and that this land was a great bar to settlement, espe­ was very convenient on occasions. The hon. cially when, as was pointed out by the hon. member for Bulloo had very glibly talked about member for Rockhampton North, it could be repudiation, but he found it was the Govern­ bought at auction for 10s. per acre. He did not ment who h<~d been guilty of repudiation, be­ see why the conditional selector should not get it cause in June or July last the late Mr. Byrnes at that price, and he could assure the hon. promised a deputation in Rockhampton, that member for Clermont that he was only doing his asked him to put a stop to the sale of lands in duty in saying what he had. He was very the Central division, that those sales would be much grieved to hear the hon. member oppose stopped forthwith. And yet they had had two close settlement in that great division ,,f the sales of land in the Central division since-one colony, as he hoped to see it settled with a large at Langmorn, and another at Portland Downs ! number of small farmers in the near futur.o. He Now who had been repudiating? That let light looked upon the grazing-farm system as a per­ npon certain dark places in the general adminis­ nicious system, because no one would m"'ke ex­ tration of the colony. They had had two sur­ pensive improvements upon leased land as he pluses one year after another, and they found would upon a freehold. The system ought never those surpluses had been built up out of sales of to have been allowed upon the coast country, land. which all ought to have been re,erved fur agri­ The HOME SECRETARY: What would have been cultural settlement. In those districts the people the surplns if it had not been for that 149,000 were already clamouring for lands held as grazing acres sold? farms. Mr. STEWART : There would have been no The CHAIRMAN : I would ask the hon. surplus, but would have been a deficiency. member if he is a ware that there is a vote 'The HOME SECRETARY: Exactly ! Then the before the Committee, because he has never yet colony was not so prosperous as some of you tried referred to it? to make out. The HoN. G. THORN: He wished to point Mr. STEWART maintained that those oales out that the Central district was as dear to him of land in huge blocks was neither more nor less as the Fa>sifern district, and he was anxious to than an evasion of the law. The Act said the see it peopled with a different set of men from land should be sold in portions of 320 acres each. the present. He trusted that before they had So they were, nominally, at mock auction ; but next year's Estimate• presented to them his ideas what he wanted to know was whether those would be carried out. 320-acre blocks were surveyed separately and Mr. CROSS : The hon. member was unfair with roads aligned through them? when he said that he (Mr. Cross) was opposed to The HOME SECRETARY : Yes. clo'e settlement, but he would point out that the Mr. STEW ART: There was no survey made districts he had referred to were not on the coast. of the different blocks in the Langmorn case. Clermont was 12!) miles in a direct line from the The HOME SECRETARY: Every block has a coast, and he repeated that there was very little frontage to a road. agricultural land in that district. Therefore he Mr. HARDACRE: On paper. and the hon. members for Barcoo and Leich­ Mr. STE"W ART : Yes, on paper, but the real hardt were only doing their duLy in ad vacating survey was not made in that case. It was only grazing-farm settlement. make-believe. The le,•see of a run approached Mr. STE\VART: The only answer the the Government, and made an arrangement with Home Secretary had given to his figures in them; a sort of nominal survey was made; the regard to the acreage that had been sold in the lands were gazetted for sale, and advertised in a different divisions of the colony was that he was kind of way ; and the sale was completed wrong; but he could show that he was within a to the lessee on the day appointed. He did few acres of being absolutely correct. The hon. not only complain of the sales but of the member in his last few remarks unearthed a way in which they were conducted. If the Go­ fact that might have a very important bearing vernment would persist in selling land they upon the report when he said that some 6,000 should follow the example of private persons acres were sold upon one run in the Wide Bay who sold land-advertise it in the best possible and Burnett division. In looking up the report way to secure the best possible price. The he found that in that division there were pro­ Langmorn advertisement in the Reco1'd was one claimed for calein 1897 7,791 acres. of the barest advertisements that could possibly The HoME SECRETARY: 7,000 will not go into be published: "twenty-five couutry portions in 4,000. the parish of Raglan." No description of the Mr. STEWART: There were 7, 791 acres land, and no indication as to whether it was proclaimed for sale in the Wide Bay and Burnett well watered, fit for agriculture, fruitgrowing, division, but there were only 563 acres sold. If pastoral purposes or anything else. '\V as that the hon. gentleman's statement that there were the w>ty to advertise public lands that the Go­ 6,000 acres sold in that division was correct, then vernment wished colonists to buy? Then with the Government had sold 5,000 acres more than regard_ to the terms of sale-he did not know 1452 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] SuppZy.

whether it was a clerical error, but he preferred would contribute to the railway when built not to believe it was-there was an important dis­ five tons per annum; bnt if it were occupied by crepancy between the terms published in the small settlers, from lOO to 150 tens per anJ;J.nm Gazette, and thooe printed on the maps. The would be carried on the line on their account. Gcczette gave the terms as one-quarter cash, and That was information from an individual who balance at twelve, twenty-four, and thirty-six evidently knew what he was writing about. months without interest; and the maps gave the He was aware that the Secretary for Railways tjrms as one-quarter C~t Mr. BOLES: Any country worth taking up deal more for the land than the purchasers of there had been selected already. There were large areas; The experience of the last few certainly portions of the district where there years had been that while large areas were being was good grazing country, but it had got zamia Bold in the Central district, the Government on parts of it, and it was not to he supposed that were buying back estates on the Dll-rling Downs people would pay rent for and fenco in zamia at ten or twelve times the price that had been country, esp?.cially when the Government originally paid to the State. In portions of the objected to allow the holders of the land to fence colony where there was not likely to be railway off the Z<>mia. But what he chiefly rose for was communication for many years, or when tlie to express his regret that the Government Treasury was in need of money, there might be should continue the mischievom policy of selling an excuse for parting with the public estate. lands close to settlement. He was not one of The HOME SECRETARY: Thera is no land those who held cast-iron 'iews on that question, being sold now. and contended that land should not be sold on Mr. BOLES: No; but the Government had any occasion; he believed that there might be power to sell land. They might get a request times when it would be reasonable for the from some person to put np 10,000 acres in some Treasurer to a.,k to be allowed to depart from favourable locality. the policy of non-alienation. At the same time The HOME SECRETARY : There are plenty of he maintained that where the State had built requests. railways at a large expense to develop the Mr. BOLES did not believe that the recent sale country, it was bdd policy to sell the lands along at Langmorn would. add half a dozen to the that rail way, especially as that land was never population of the Central district, whereas if the Ui

acre, or 3d. in the .£1. \Vhy, it would actually could bring forward no better arguments pay more in divisional board rates than the than those produced in connection with adjoining leaseholds were paying for grazing the land q nestion their case was hopeless farms at 1d. an acre. Hon. gentlemen oppo­ inde' d. Hon. members talked about the iniquity site were desirous of imposing a land tax, of the Government selling Central lands, but and he presumed that as soon as they got the hem. member for Rockhampton North never into power they would succeed in doing so, pointed out that in the month of June the Go­ and, in the face of their avowed inten­ vernment withdrew from sale 60,000 acres of tion, was it not surprising that people who Central land. They had practically for the time considered themselves business men would buy being abandoned the sale of land and the evil­ land and run the risk of having to pay that if it were one-was only passing; but the time tax? The hon. member for Rockhampton would come, he ventured to say, when the Go­ North quoted a newspaper article which abused vernmen~ of the country would be only too glad the Government for selling a few thou"and acres for the people to come and buy the land. U n­ of second-rate land at 10s. an acre, and that was doubteclly it was by far the best investment for termed a calamity and disaster to the country. the State that people should buy it. The State The article said the land was gone, and gone for got the c1sh value, and posse'osed the power to ever. Now he held that the land was just as impose a tax on landed property at any moment. much the property of the State after alienation He invited hon. members to get on with business as it was before. The difference was all against instead of wasting the time of the Committee by the buyer, because in the first instance the clamouring over fancy evils. They were only State got ca"h value for the land, and the brou~htforwardassomuch political :fireworks and buyer had the certainty of paying the divisional noth mg else. The electors "'ere not to be blinded board tax, and run the risk of paying a by having dust thrown in their eyes in this way, land tax in addition. Of course· those things as the thing must be perceptible to any man who would always find their own value, and he chose to think. assumed that if the Langmorn land had been of Mr. STORY: Although the Secretary for so very much value, there would have been some Rail ways had made a speech upon a subject that demand for it. How was it, thereforA, tha~ not was not before the Committee, there were some a soul attended the lands office to buy it? Did remarks made by hon. members opposite that hon. gentlemen opposite think there was a family required either contradic'ion or explanation. ready in this colony to go upon every 1,280 acres When the hon. member for Rockhampton North the Government had got? The people were not was spf'aking he (Mr. Story) made an interjec­ standing round in millions ready to be dumped tion that the hon. member did not understand on the land, but hon. members talked as 'if they properly, and he would exolain what he meant. were. He maintained that such settlement as The hon. member was talking about repudiation, they had got was exactly suited to the circum­ and it could only be inferred that he meant that Rtances of the country. Hon. members talked the pastoralists had repudiated their engage­ a lot nf nonsense about a great land monopoly. ments, but he should have stated in what way If it was such an evil, it was evident that they had ever done so. If the hon. member only it could only be of short duration. It could knew what those people had to suffer-the con­ only last during the lifetime of the owner. ditions under which they lived, and the desperate The greatest complaint that had bt>en made efforts they made to honourably meet their throughout Australia against land monopoly eiJgagements-he would have~ very little to say had been directed against their lately deceased about repudiation. It was a very sweep­ friend, Mr. Tyson. Where was the land mono­ ing charge, and the hon. member was entirely poly now ? Why, it was likely to be scat­ unable to substantiate what he said. The hon. tered to the four wind' of Heaven ! It was member said ':hat the main reason why these perfectly absurd to cry out against th~ Govern­ people gave 10s. per acre for land was that the ment for selling a few acres of land, whether land was worth it, and he stated that they were gt'lod or indifferent. Those things would always willing to pay 6d. per acre rent for it, which was right themselves. He had no fear whatever equal to 5 per cent. upon 10s. Now the very of the lands of this cnlony being held by best lands in the colony would not carry more monopolists, but he was afraid the time was than one sheep to two acres, so that at 6d. per coming when landowners would be taxed out of acre pastoralists were paying 1s. per annum for existence altogether. Hon. members opposite grazing a sheep. 'When the hon. member had thought that because a man held a few acres of got that far, he (Mr. Story) interjected, "Surely land he was necessarily defrauding the public you would n0t make a grazing farmer pay the and the revenue nf something he had no right to. same amount of rent as that," beca,nse he held Tf the hon. member for Rockbampton North bad that, even at 2d., the grazing farmer was had helf as much experience of the land as paying too high a rent, considering all his he h'' d had, and the difficulty of earning a other taxes and liabilities. None of this land living upon it, he would no~ talk about land was worth 6d. per acre, and the only ex­ monopoly in the way he did. If hon. member• planation was that men might l.uy up a block thought it was such an easy thing to pile up a or two for the purpose of holding under control fortune by going on to the land he advised them a large area, of w .cter frontnge. But that explan­ to go on to it and try. He had had no intention ation would hardly hold now, because artesian of saying- much on the question, but it seemed to water could be obtained in nearly every district, him a disgraceful thing that there should be so and that water was better than frontage water. much time wasted on the matter. The article He had never been able to explain the contra­ which the hon. member for Rockhamptnn North diction that p~ople who were willing to pay 10s. had quoted was altogether at variance with per acre for the freehold should object to paying fact; and the statements he read were utterly 6J. per acre rent. He did not advocate the untrue. The article said the Fitzroy Park selling of land, but had always advocated tbat Estate, bought by the Government, was sixteen land should l1e thrown open to selection wherever miles away fron, the railway station. As a required. He had ;mpported every applica­ matter of fact, it was exactly eleven miles from tion that had been made to him to get land the Rockhampton Post Office, and in getting thrown open, and in not one case had he failed. there one had to cross a rail way line. Was it There had never been any objection on the part of not utter nonsense to talk in that way ? It only the Land Board when any real desire for the land showed the straits that some people were put to was shown by the people. The hon. member for to find fault with the Government. If they \Varrego said that grazing farm land was too Supply. [9 DECEMBER.] Supply. 1455 highly valued, and he agreed with him that the until it was required for closer settlement. He great question was that of classification. A did not want the land alienated so as to block value mnst be put upon each selection, irrespec· closer settlement wrne day in the future. tive of the value of the neighbouring land, and The PREMIER : Did you say you approve of he had always contended that the real value of the sale of ]a.nd where there is close settlement? land was its carrying capacity in its unimproved Mr. STEW ART: He had said nothing of the condition. Instead of calling the amount paid kind. He believed, o·ith the Secretary for to the State "rent," let them call it " agist­ Railways, in leasing land. The hon. gentleman ment," and then la,nd that would carry one sheep said that was better for the settler; but he to two acres would pay twice as much as land (Mr. Stewart) went further, and said it was that would carry one sheep to four acres, and so also better for the State. The Secretary for on in proportion, so that every man would then Rail ways had tried to make it appear that that be paying the same amount for the sheep he ran family bad bought that land for sentimental upon Government property. considerations; but they could have remained Mr. LEAHY: Making allowance for carriage. there by leasing it for another twenty-one years. To s:-,y that people paid 7d. or 8d. per acre for Mr. STORY: Yes; but the first thing to the mere sentimental consideration of living in a consider was the carrying capacity of the land. particular place, when they could get the land Mr. STEWART: He had listened atten­ for ll;d. or l~d. per acre, wa~ to say what it was tively to the bon. member for Balonne, but that too much to ask any hon. member to swallow. hon. m em her had failed in his explanation just The PREMIER: What i~ the objection? when he came to the crucial point. He admitted Mr. STEvV ART : The objection was to that, in consequence of artesian water being making it freehold. obtainable, there was not much in the explana­ The PREMIER: Do you object to all freehold? tion that land might be bought at 10s. per acre Mr. STE\VART: The hon. gentleman wanted to secure a water frontage, but he could give no him to commit himself. Because he objected to other, and they might expect from that that see the town on fire did it follow that he must there would be no more demands for freeholds in object to fire. The Secretary for Rail ways said the West. That was the logical conclusion, but that the present land system suited the popula­ it was in opposition to the facts, because the tion, but he did not agree with that. \Vhy, in Home Secretary told them at Rion's report, dealing with the things. He objected to the hon. gentleman sale of Western land :- being Home Secretary, and he would be glad to Your commissioners are of opinion that the practice see the hon. gentleman out of the position and a or alienating large .areas of Western lands at public better man in it. Ht' objected to anything· that auction is a proceedrng which receives no justification obstructed the progre<;s of tbis colony. either from the experience of the past or from the con~ The HoME 8ECRJ<;TARY: 'l'hen you object to tlit~ons of .the present time. The incongruity of a public pohcy whrch on the one hand buys back land at a price yourself. double that which the State received for it but a few Mr. STJ<~W ART: The Secretary for Rail­ years before, and on rhe other continues to sell large ways said land monopoly was not an evil, but if tracts of Western downs to individual purchasers or the hon. ?·entleman had his ;enses he must see private companies, must be manifest to all who examine the evil of it everywhere in the colony. The ~he subject. Settlement in Queensland, using the term rn the sense of exchanging the original pastoral lessee hon. gentleman also pr pounded the wonder­ for the smaller holder, receives no assistance from such ful idea that when land was sold it was just as a. course, but indeed is checked by it. It is much more much the State's as before. He knew that to be desired in the public interest that the we.tel'll theoretically the land was always the State's, lands should be leased at a fair rental to grazing and freehold land <' mld be . resumed at any farmers t.han that they should be sold in blocks to large moment, but when the State \\ianted to rtsume pastoralists; and your commttSioners strongly recom­ mend that no legislative authority should sanction in land it had to pay handsomely for it. The hon. the future any departure from this principle ev~Jn in gentleman also talked about a land tax, which, consideration of relief demanded by the exige~cies of a it appeared, was the great political bngbear temporarily embarrassed Treasury, withou· insisting­ looming in the hon. gentleman"s horizon. If that a special application be made to Parliament for there had been a land tax in Queensland twenty authority in ertch case. years ago there would have been no necessity for One of the signatories to that report was "John the Government to buy back those estates on the Murray," whom they heard a moment ago Darling D.lwns. Of course it was better that expressing sentiments exactly the reverse of what the Government should repurchase them in order appeared in the commissioner's report. He had that they might be settled and cultivated, hnt if made no reflection upon the Creed family. He there had been a land tax those estates would knew th~t family, and it was as a g

Mr. HARDACRE: Those men were occupied_ missioner which he (Mr. Kerr) thought was an chiefly with other duties altogether; their atten insult to him. Mr. Borton, the commissioner, tion was drawn away from the administration of wrote- the land laws and when people sent them appli­ The tands Department do not take hallpennies in cations for lB,nd they sent them a short reply that payment of rent, but as you possibly cannot afford the there was none. extra halfpenny I have paid it myself. The HoME SECRETARY : You will see that we Would any business inan allow one of his have increased the Estimates in that'respect ver:J employees to reply to one of his custoiners in considerably this year. that manner? Here was a well-known grazing farmer-- Mr. HARD ACRE: It would be a very good The HoME SECRETARY : What is his name? job if they had. Ho thought they should have Mr. KEllR : Edward Powell was his name, some statement from the Minister as to what and he had held his country for the last ten was to be th.; policy in the future. Were the years, and never been behindhaud with hia rent. Government going to continue land sales or not? Yet he had received that insulting letter from In the report of the department for last year it the commissioner. was stated that there was a marked increase in The HOME SECRETARY : Is not this too uoterly the total area of land sold for the year, the excess paltry? being considerable in country lands; and it was Mr. KERR: Not when a public officer went said that that was to be attributed to the growing out d his way to send such a message to a man demand for freehold land in certain pastoral who had always paid hi• rent. di,tricts. If that demand exi•ted to-day, he The HOME SECRETARY : He knew Mr. thought the ·Central people had a right to ask Borton to be one of the best commissioners the whether the Government were going to carry out department had, and one of the most upright the promise of the late Premier or were going to men to be found in the West of Queensland. sell any further land. Assuming that Mr. Borton wrote the letter, he Mr. KERR: The hon. member for JYiitchell woulrl point out what might have happened. If had asked him to bring forward a matter show­ Mr. Powell wae a total stranger to Mr. Bm·ton ing the time selectors had to wai" aftet· they had he did not consider that was a proper letter for made application betore they conld get on their Mr. Borton to write. On the other hand it land. A m<>ln named Thomas Furber made was quite possible that Mr. Powell might have application at Longreach on the 20th December, written an offensive letter to Mr. Borton, which 1897, for a grazing farm on the Ruthven Resump­ would fully justify his sarcasm. A third hypo­ tion, and on the 5th J anu.'ioner for the improvements. He familiar terms, and tha>. the letter was written also wrote to the manager of Ruthven to see if in a jocular manner. It might be any une they could agree as to the valm: of the improve­ of those three ; but he protested against hon. ments, but never received a reply. It appeared member• ventilating in Committee petty griev­ that the selection was applied f,•r before survey ances of that sort against individual officers of on the 20th December, and instructions for survey the department, which did not concern Parlia­ were issued by the department on the 26th J an nary, ment at all. If a grievance of that sort was 1898. The les,ee appeared not only to have thought of sufficient importance to ventilate ignored Fnrber's letter, but also any communi· there, surely it should have been brought under cation he had received from the department. the notice of the departm•·nt before so that the Tlwre was a letter from the department dated officer condemned or clisraraged should have an the 7th October, 1898, stating that the applica­ opportunit.y before being arraigned at the bar of ti.m was confirmed on the 8th July, and on the public opinion there. \Vith regard to the ho ble time ; and if he did not do so the The HOME SECRETARY: As far as the Land Court .should step in and allow the select<•r hon. member knew, but the latest communica­ to go on the land. ThPre was also another matter tion they h'tve ascertained whether the grievance ·still the ~d. l.mt claimed 1d. The reason he existed. The land had evidently been tbrow:n asked was that a well-known grazing farmer open for selection before survey, probably at the in the Biackall district, who had always, before re-1uest of the selector himself, who preferred to the last occac-ion, paid his rent at the land run the chance of a survey being executed within cowmissioner's office at Blackall, bei,1g away a reasonaLle time afterwards. Probably no from home when it fell due, calcuiated the survevor was available, and he had to wait amount his rent would come to and forwarded before he could get his confirmation. With a cheque to the commissioner. \Vith his receipt regard to the valuation of the improvemen.ts, that grazing farmer got a note from the corn· that also was capable 6f explaiootlio-n. !!.'he Suppl.'lf. (9 DEOEMBER.] Supply. 1461

man, instead of applying to the Land Court Mr. KERR : The hon. gentleman must know to hold a sitting to value the improvements, very well that Mr. Borton and Mr. Powell were wrote to the lessee to endeavour to come to not strangers. Blackall was nut a very large an otmicable arrangement with him. If the place, and Mr. Powell had held some of his lessee did not reply, the department was not guczing farms fnr ten yearH. \Vhatever the responsible. The lessee was not bound to Home Secretary might say, Mr. Borton had no reply to the selector. The selector must apply right to write such a letter as a public serva.nt. to the department to have the improvements The Hmm SECRETARY: You might have valued. ::lo long as the selection was unsur­ asked for his explanation bofore bringing it np veyed, and he had not got his license to occupy, here. there was no advantage in holding a court to value the impt·o,·ements. It wa• quite possible Mr. KERR wished to remind the hon. gentle­ man that he represented the Bareoo, and so long th"t the L>tnd Court might have delayed goino­ as he occupied that position he intended to to Longreach until the ·12th October, becaus~ there was no necessity to hurry so far as that repre~ent his constituents on the floor of that casE) was concerned, for the simple reason that Cnamber without fear of being sat upon by the the selection had not been surveyed. He pro­ Home Secretary. tested against wasting the time of the Committee Mr. GL'I\.SSEY: The selector referred to had over these matters of detail. They were very written to the hon. member for Mitchell com­ 1mpoctant, no doubt, to the individual affected plaining that he had been put to great incon­ but they did not affect the country at large. Hi~ venience in not being able to get on to his experience was that such cases admitted of a selection. The hon. member for Mitcbell, in complete explanation if the proper course was his absence, had entrusted the case to the hon. taken. Hon. members might consider themselves member for Barcoo. The answer given by the justified in endeavourin~ to show that the department was not satisfactory-that there were Government was responstble for those things not sufficient suneyors; and the hon. member for but surely the hon. member could see that it wa~ Mitchell had written on the margin of the purely a qnestion of a depa.rtmental officer ! letter, " Why are there not more surveyors?" Mr. KERR: You are impnting motives now. The Home Secretary must be aware from his The HOME SlWRETARY: Not at all! connection with the Lands Department that Did the hon. rnember say that he had no desire this was a very general complaint. In the to show that the Government was doing wrong interests of the Lands Department, as well as in politically? the interests of settlement, the surveying staff Mr. KERR: This does not affect me at all. should be increased, even though it increased The HOME SECRETARY: Why did the the cost of working the department to some appre­ hon. member bring it up if it did not affect the ciable extent. There was no question that it Government or the Committee? entailed not only inconvenience to a selector who Mr. KERR : It affects the hon. member for was unable to get on to his land, but considerable Mitchell. loss as well. 'rhe discussion with reg>

He had seen a good deal of the country himself, within a month of the date of selection. If and he was bound to say that the know], dge the land ·~ :>s thrown upen at the request of a thus gained had enabled him to adminiscer the m m before survey, he took the risk of delay in department better than lte could have done if he obt ,ining a ourveyor. He could •ssure hon. had not seen the country, hut the :Minister could members thnt as many •urveyors as could make not act on his own know ledg-e of 'he land in a li dng w, re employed, and they were not doing m;,,ny cases. He had to be guided by the recom­ too \YelL If more were crowded into each dis­ mend.ation of the commi,sioner, and where trict, they coulrl not live. The department the commissioner was an offirer of the Post and could not afford to pay more for surveyors, Telegraph Department, or a police magistrate, by because already there were ct, and the Hmaller areas were for his lucid explanation. He admitted it was not selec~ed, and the land was subsequently impossible f,,r outsiders to be acquainted with taken up m larger blocks, the whole. of the Rc'ect­ in !.he int·.·csL of the country, he would recom­ ing the land to bn thrown open; and, know­ mend Bma!l eel<·ct!l•n••. Four ,;elections of 5,000 ing that bore water could be ohtnined there acres were much better Lban one of 20,000 acres. at from 700 to 900 feet, he took it UJ.'lil There had been complaints that the department himself to halve the areas recommended bv t.he had not met the views of men with limited commissioner, and the result proved that b'e ,,, as means; that land was thrown open in larger areas correct in doing that, for the whole of the land than they could afford to take up. He hoped was selected. He had abn interfered in the that would not be the policy of the department, matter of rents, po"ibly on the information of because the aim should be t.o have settlement as a commi,sioner who happened to be in Brisbane close as possible, During a tour through at the time, and who knew the di"trict. In ,ome the Central district it had been sug;;ested cases he had reduced the rent, but as a rule he to him that it would never do to have had increased it. Tile rent.s of the Green Hills certain lands thrown open in less than 10,000 and Kensiugton lands, which were thrown opfluence reduced, and abo that if he put the rent might be brought to bear upon the commissioner too low the tender system woulry occasion to carry bn t he had read those letters merely to show the out the surveys as soon as the a;,plicati,m was general inefficiene:v of the department. There made that the land 'hould be t.hrown ope;, In w;.s an increase of £11,000 in the expenditure on the case mentioned, the man m·;st have asked the department this year, but £6,000 of that was that the land should be thrown open before for wire-netting, There was an increase of only survey, possibly haviPg il'forma:ion that a sur­ .£690 for land c'>mmissioners f·nd hnd ag'ents, veyor would be round soon, and he might have and only £109 for ranger&. The department been disappointed. The policl of the depart­ wa8 in a state worthy of twenty yHtrs ago rather ment had been to have selections surveyed before than of to-day, the country offices especially being thrown open. Thex, there was no delay, being badly equipped. and he had previously quoted instances of selec­ The HoME SECRETARY : To a certain extelj tors being in possession of licenses to occupy that is true, and I regret it. Supply. [9 DECEMBER. J Supply. 1463

Mr. HARDACRE : One sore spot was in hoped the Secretary for Lands would be asked to regard to thA areas of land thrown open to selec­ consider the desirability of giving increases m tion. They had to depend entirely upon the the cases to which he had referred. surveyor who happenwl to be in the district, and Mr. STEWAL{T: There was much complaint he s1mply recommended what would suit him in all parts of the colony at the delay which touk best ; or there might be no loc~l officer there at place between an applic~tion for a >election and all, and it would be very much better if they the time when the applicant received permission spent more money and put the de[lartment into to enter. To give one case in his own district: a thoroughly efficient state. He might refer hon. A man applied on the 11th May for a grazing members to the annual report of the department homestead. In August the applic&tion was which shower! that the work had increased with: approved, and in September it wa' sur,· eyed; out a corresponding augmentation of the staff. and then the applicant heard nothing more about The necessity br a larger staff wa9 very it until the Acs of 1897 came into force. Then apparent, as without it the public interP~ts it was found that as no priority was given under would not be well served. If the Railway that Act he could not get the homestead. Then Department or the Mines Department were it was recommended by the land agent that treated in the same way there would be a grt:at the land should be thrown open to condi­ outcry. Another matter he wished to refer to tional selection. No one would take it up was in connection with timber licenses. Some under that tenure, as it was too fat· from time ago a deputation, who waited on the Seere­ any market. He might state that all those tary for Lands, were told that quarterly licenses delays were supposed to have been occasioned by ":'ould be issued to those engage i in cutting the lessee of the run. Almost exactly twelve t1m~er f'?r sleepers, but not to those engaged in months after his first application, the man got C'lttmg tnnber for ordinary sawmill purposes. the homestead and w"s permitted to enter. That But many sawmills were cutting timber for was altogether too long, and, whatever was the sleepers, and he wished to know whether the cause for it, he trusted that in future more concession would apply in their case? expedition would be shown by the department. He wished to know whether the tender system . The HOME SECR~l'ARY: Quarterly had resulted in an increase of rent, and had hcenses had been proclanned as available for worked satisfactorily? splitting purposes, but not for sawmills. That The HOME SECRETARY : Yes ; and it has worked would probably meet all cases that might crop satisfactorily so far as I know. up. He was very glarJ. to hear the hon. member for L3ichhardt adopt a tone which was a novel Mr. STEW ART also asked whether the one so far ae the hon. member's party was con­ expenses of the applicants in the recent appeals cerned. What Ministers dreaded in proposing to the Supreme Court had been paid by the increases in the Estimates was that there would Government in any case ? be sure to be opposition to them from the other The HOMF> SECRETARY : Speaking side. roughly, the costs to the Cro#n were £1,500. MEMBERS of the Labour party: No, no ! Each side paid their own costs in each case. The HOME SECRETARY: He could re­ Mr. STEWART asked whether the repurchase member the time when' every increase-unless of theFitzroy Park Estate, in the Central district, it was for someone receiving less than £300 a had been completed? year-was systematically opposed by hon. mem­ The HOME SECRETARY: The purchase bers on the other side. He was glad to see that had been completed, the deeds transferred, and there was to be a change, and that they were going the money paid. The land was now being sur­ to let bygones be bygones. He could say that V''yed, and it wonld be thrown open for selection after the severe retrenchment of 1893 the Secre­ at the earliest possible date. tary for Lands had rather a difficult row to hoe Mr. J ACKSON : In the e;J,rly part of the in satisfying his colleagues-who had not· his evening the hon. member for Fassifern said in a knowledge of the needs of the department- that jocular way that he (Mr. Jack8on) W>tS t'1e happy the department really had been starved in the possessor of 10,000 acres of land, and as il; might past. Hon. members would see that there was have got into Hansard he took the opportunity an increase 11roposed upon last year's Estimates­ of contradicting the statement. He agreed with that more commissionerB and more staff surveyors the hon. member for \Voothakata thc.t too high were being asked for this year. He sincerely a price was pnt upon land in the North as com­ hoped that his successor in the department pared with the South, and that it would not be would, next session, he able to ask for a further a bad idea to make a transfer of officers, as sug­ increased staff. If he did he would hwe his gested by the hon. member. What he rose for assistance, because it was very necessary. was to briefly ventilate a grievance of the Mr. GLASSEY: The Minister was in error Northern pastoralists, who had for some time with regard to their actions in the past in been asking that the certificates in connection with the meat and da1r.y fund should be attempting to reduce expenditurE>. What ~hey attempted to do, and wh,,t they would contmue accepted by the Government m P'tyment of rent; to attempt to do, wa• to cut down increasos pro­ also that a Government official shonl:l be sent to posed upon salaries which were already too high inspect and report upon their runs with a or high enough. He drclW attention to the fact view to reduction of rent on account of the that in the first vote there were seven clerks losses they had sustained through the ticks. mentioned, one of whom got £90, two £80, and A fAW months ago an influential meeting was held four £70 each per annum. Toose were very in Townsville, at whwh evidence was given of small salaries. the losses of the Northern paotoralist,, and as a result of that meeting a deputation of members The HoME SECRETARY : Four of them are of Parl ament was arranged for by the hon. probationers. member, Mr. Castling, and they were informed Mr. GLASSEY: Some officers who were on interviewing the Minister for Lan'ls that called probationers had wives and families, and they would get an answer to their reque4. 'fhe he wanted to see them gettin!<" a living wage. reqt1est was that the Government would grant The seven got between them £530, and yet the the concessions which he hnd just mentwned. accounta,nt who was getting £3!0-a very fair Though he was convinced that the s'aternents salary-was down for a rise of £30. He was not made by the Northern pastoralists with regard going to move a reduction after the exhaustive to their losses were correct, he thought it would discussion there had been on the vote, but he be better for the Government to send an officer 1464 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. to insp~ct those runs; and if his report corro­ lost 60 or 70 per cent., and they were certainly borated those statement,, a very fair case would entitled to somf' further conce~sion than an he made out for a reduction of rents. He th<·ught extension of time for payment of rent. As to the answer sent by the Ministe.r for Lands tn the the into·jection of the Premier that if the whole hon. member tor Townsville a day or two ago of the rents were remitted the pastoralists would was that nothing would be done as regards the not be satisfied, he knew that in the Northern certificates-that it would require an Act of portion of the colony they were always ready to Parliament to he P>\'Sen before the concession receive aiJd appreciate any concessions they could be granted. But he was led to believe since received ; and the Government should at once then that the Minister was inclinerl to send an send an inspector there to report on the actual officer to report upon the losses suffered by the condition of affairs, so that they could j;:;dge for pastoralists in the North, as requested. It was themselves. a pity the Government could not see their way Mr. CASTLING: He was not awar.e that to accept the certificates of the Meat and Dairy any deputation had waited upon the Govern­ Board in payment of rent. The only concession ment, and stated that they would be satisfied the Northern pastoralists had received up to the with an extension of time. In any case it was pr!'\sent was an extensio1l of time, from the 30th no very great concession to allow the rent to September fo 3lstDecember, >Lnd that was hardly stand over for the three or six months. Many worth considering. of the Northern pastoralists had lost, not only The PREMIER : It was gratefully accepted from 50 to 80 per cent. of their cattle, but they when it was given. had lost all their bulls. If a similar affliction Mr. JACKSON: Of course they were grateful had happened in the South the Government £or any concession, because they got so few. would be much more sympathetic. The Govern­ They were not nearly so clamorous as the ment should certainly come to their as,istance, Southern men. He had evidence that the losses and they had a perfect right to ask for it. That on some of the runs amounted to 50, 60, and 70 relief should take the shape of a reduction of per cent. of their stock. They had been stocked rent. If something of the kind was not done up Rince, but that meant getting heavily involved. the Northern pastoralists would have good He knew personally that 50 per cent. were lost grounds to complain of unfair tTeatment, seeing on DotRwood. that that had been done in the case of the The PREMIER : They would not be satisfied if 1Jastoralists of the West. they got a remi,sion of the whole of the rent. Mr. J ACKSON : The Home Secretary must Mr. JACKSON: The Premier's sympathy be mistaken in saying that a deputation of was with 1nd trust the hon. member is not going to raise a his salary was not in the least in jeopardy. It contentious debate on the vote now before the had long been apparent to the heads of the Committee. Lands Department that a.s •o much of the land Mr. KEOGH was not going to raise any con­ about Brisbane and Ipswich had been selected, tentious debate, but he wished to say that "hen­ and as there was now so little available for ever the pastoralists were in trouble they asked •election, a readjustment of the ?ffi<;e of 'Lhe Parliament for concessions and generally got all commissioners for those two

The CHAIRMAN : I do not think it neces­ of the committee of inquiry had been carried out, sary that the hon. member sb,mld explain these there would have been a great deal more heard matters as they have t·een dealt with b,- the about the case than there was. Minister. · Mr. HARD ACRE: 'l'he staff at Rockhamp­ Mr. BAT'fERSBY wanted to let hem. nwm­ ton was not as large as that at Townsville, and bers know as much he did 'jmself, but as they the district was larger. appeared to know .. tll about it he had nmhing Question put and passed. further to SitY. Mr. MAUGHAN thanked the Government CROWN LANDS RANGERS. for at last re."ognising the importance of the The HOME SECRETARY moved that Nanango district by .1ppointing a commissioner. .£5,898 be granted for Crown lands rangers. The ts'llary proposed to b, given, however, was Additional rangers had been appointed at not commensurate with the work to be P' r­ Blackall, Cunnamulla, and St. George, and formed. The Blackall officer received £400, and ano"her would be available for ;;pecial work in last year the land op~.l in his district ran into any district where his services might be 48,000 acres. The Maryborough officer also required. The total vote was some £1,100 more received .£400, and the acreage in that district than last year. was 2G,OOO acres. Question put and passed. The HOME SECHETARY: If the bon. member would allow llim to say a few words he OPENING Ol!' ROADS, would explain the matter. It was not a question The HOME SECRETARY moved that of area selected. The commissioner at Blackall .£1,800 be granted for the _opeJ?-ing of roads. had to go r.s far as JYiuttabunc, and Aramac, and There was an increase of £o00 m the amount 500,000 acres were selected in his district. He available for this purpose, as additional demands rwd to travel long disth to select behind them. The HOME SECRJ

£here had been a considerable amount of re­ very poor condition, and not adequate to prevent arrangement this year owing to the transfer of the incursion of rabbits. He was speaking of men casually employed as draft8men on to the the Cunno,mulla district, and away back from permanent staff. He had thought it better­ there. It was very poor economy to save the and the Surveyor-General concurred with him, Falarie,3 of two or three inspectors, wht'n to have them permanently employed. It was the" might save the country a considerable sum not practicable in every case, but so far as it had of money by seeing that the fences were kept m been found to be practicable it had been done. proper repair. Mr. HOOD asked if it was prtlposed to send a '['he HOME SECRETARY: Under the new district. surveyor to the Oharleville district? system proposed by the amending Bill of this There had been one there for many years past, seosiun a certain proportion of the £10,000 a year who was land commissioner as well, and his loss M ailable for the Oentrr.l Rabbit Board would be was very much felt. There was now no district devoterl to the employment of three or four surveyor in the West at all, and he thought it more inspectors, thre., of whom had been was necessary that one should be stationed at already appointed. He regretted to hear the Oharleville. sto,tement of the hon. member, because the board The HOME SECRETARY understood from were maintaining very careful supervision, and he the Surveyor-General that Mr. Bedford was thought the information the hon. ;1entleman had now at J undah and on his way to Charleville, received must refer to private fences, with which where he ought to be early in January. the Government were in no way concerned. Mr. HooD : Is he to be stationed there? The supervision was not all that he could desire, The HOME SECRETARY: He had charge but that was not the· fault of the iaspectors; it o the Charleville and Roma districts. A com­ was simply because there were only two in­ missioner was to be sent to Cunnamulla for the spectors to cover an enormous territory. 'l'hey Cunnamulla, Thargomindah, and Oharleville did their best, and they did it well. He would districts. It might be necessary to appoint a be glad if hon. gentleman would furnish the staff surveyor there as well, but he would have information he had privately to the depart­ to have a very large district, because when Mr. ment. Starcke was there he held the office of lanrl com­ Mr. DANIELS : Could the Minister inform missioner as well as staff surveyor. Any staff the Committee what- was the mileage of fence surveyor stationed in the West must have a very each boundarv rider had to look after. large district to work, and he could be very The HOME SECRETARY: That was a seldom in Charleville. matter for the rabbit boards. The hon. gentle­ Question put and passed. man might be able to get the information from any of them. TRIGONOMETRICAL SURVEY. Mr. HOOD: The Mitchell Rabbit Board was 'l'he HOME SECRETARY moved that £200 the largest in the colony, and the boundary be granted for the Trigonometrical Survey. As riders who looked after the fences under that it w