Tuesday Volume 541 28 February 2012 No. 270

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 28 February 2012

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2012 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 131 28 FEBRUARY 2012 132

resettlement and reintegration—process of integrating House of Commons the militias, which helps not only the men but the women engaged in the uprising by, for example, redefining Tuesday 28 February 2012 “fighter” to include women. Will the Minister outline what support the UK Government are giving to the Libyan Government in developing their DDRRR plan The House met at half-past Two o’clock to ensure that it addresses the concerns of women in post-conflict Libya? PRAYERS Mr Hague: This is a very important issue. From the beginning, including in the very first visit that I made to [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Benghazi in June last year, during the conflict, we have gone out of our way to support the involvement of women in the transition in Libya. We are working BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS closely with all the relevant organisations on this. We co-funded the first women’s convention in Tripoli in LONDON LOCAL AUTHORITIES BILL [LORDS] November. We are about to start a six-month programme (BY ORDER) of support to promote women’s and youth participation Resumption of adjourned debate on Question (21 February), in the political process in Libya. I am pleased that the That the Bill be now read the Third time. election law that was approved earlier this month will provide, in effect, for a certain proportion of the seats in Hon. Members: Object. the national congress to go to women. Debate to be resumed on Tuesday 6 March. Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) LONDON LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND TRANSPORT FOR (PC): On 21 February, Gareth Montgomery-Johnson, a LONDON (NO.2)BILL [LORDS](BY ORDER) freelance cameraman, and several others were arrested in Tripoli by the Saraya Swehli militia. Despite repeated Second Reading opposed and deferred until Tuesday requests, the militia have refused to transfer Mr Johnson 6 March at Seven o’clock (Standing Order No. 20). and his colleagues to the Libyan Government or to provide access to Human Rights Watch. His next of TRANSPORT FOR LONDON (SUPPLEMENTAL TOLL kin, who are constituents of mine, are increasingly PROVISIONS)BILL [LORDS](BY ORDER) concerned about the situation. Will the Secretary of Second Reading opposed and deferred until Tuesday State assure them that the Foreign Office will do everything 6 March (Standing Order No. 20). in its power to release my constituent from militia captivity?

Mr Hague: Yes, absolutely. The hon. Gentleman is Oral Answers to Questions right to raise the position of his constituent. We are aware of the situation. The embassy in Tripoli is doing everything that it can to assist. It is important that FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE consular access is given to his constituent and to one other person involved, and so, while we have not yet achieved everything that we want on this, we are continuing The Secretary of State was asked— to work on it.

Libya Human Trafficking

1. Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon) 2. Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con): What (Con): What support his Department is providing to steps he is taking to work with his EU counterparts on the Libyan Government. [96687] tackling human trafficking. [96688]

The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr William Hague): We are working closely Office (Mr Jeremy Browne): The Foreign and with the transitional Government to provide stabilisation Commonwealth Office and the Home Office work closely assistance across a range of issues, including policing, with other EU member states to try to prevent human security and prison reform, as well as on projects to trafficking. Three of the countries recognised in the promote youth and women’s political participation and Government’s human trafficking strategy—Romania, human rights. We have also worked to ensure that the Czech Republic and Slovakia—are EU member Libya’s assets are available to fund its own reconstruction. states. We are working with partners in these countries to help to combat trafficking at source. Nicola Blackwood: During a recent round table on women in Libya organised by the all-party group on women, Justin Tomlinson: I pay tribute to the Foreign Secretary peace and security and attended by the Under-Secretary for his work in raising awareness of modern-day slavery. of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my Given the international nature of human trafficking, hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire what support has the Minister provided to the European (Alistair Burt), we heard about the importance of the Commission-backed project, led by the Human Trafficking DDRRR—disarmament, demobilisation, repatriation, Foundation, to set up a parliamentary network on 133 Oral Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Oral Answers 134 trafficking that aims to promote and strengthen a network Mr Browne: We make frequent representations to the of parliamentarians and businesses against trafficking Argentines and to many other countries in south America. in human beings throughout all EU member states? It is a source of sadness and frustration to us that people who are on holiday and who want to further Mr Browne: I share my hon. Friend’s abhorrence of relations between ourselves and Argentina at a people- this terrible crime. We are keen to work through the to-people level are not able to do so. We enter the Commission and through other bodies in the European relationship with Argentina in a spirit of friendship and Union, at Parliament-to-Parliament level, and at it is a source of sadness to us that it does not always do Government-to-Government level. For example, we share the same. skills, knowledge and experience, and fund projects that help countries to tackle the problem at source. Independent Judiciary (Hungary)

Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab): The whole 4. Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): House will share the Minister’s abhorrence of this form What representations he has made to the Hungarian of modern slavery. Will he give an absolute guarantee Government on state control of the judiciary in that that nothing that this Government negotiate at the country. [96690] European level will make it more difficult for women, in particular, who have been trafficked to be given proper The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign refuge in this country and that nothing will give them and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): An an incentive to continue in slavery rather than risk being independent judiciary is necessary for the preservation sent back to their country of origin to be re-trafficked? of democracy and fundamental freedoms. We have urged Hungary to consider the implications of its new laws and to continue working with the European Mr Browne: Our intention always is to give paramount Commission to ensure that those laws are consistent importance to the victims of such crime. When we with EU norms. negotiate in the European Union and elsewhere, we try to give those victims the most protection that we can. Andrew Miller: I welcome that response from the Minister. There have been suggestions in the media over Falkland Islanders the past few days that progress is being made at the EU level. Will he spell out what that progress is? Will he give 3. Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con): the House an assurance that this and the other outstanding What support the Government are providing to the issues with Hungary’s new constitution will be pursued Falkland Islanders; and if he will make a statement. vigorously by this Government? [96689] Mr Bellingham: On 17 January, the European Commission released its analysis of the incompatibility The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth of specific elements of the new Hungarian constitution Office (Mr Jeremy Browne): The Government support with EU treaty obligations. Letters of formal notice the Falkland Islanders’ right to self-determination. That were sent to the Hungarian Government as the first support takes many forms, from the military deterrent stage of EU infringement proceedings. on the islands to the work of our diplomatic network to promote their rights in the region and more widely. We David T.C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): Notwithstanding do all that with the full endorsement of the Falkland the EU’s concerns, is it not the case that the vast Islands Government. majority of Hungarians voted for Fidesz at the last election? We should remember that that party is led by a Sheryll Murray: What discussions have taken place man who was at the forefront of the battle against the with Argentina to encourage it to rejoin the south socialist dictatorship in Hungary, a country in which I Atlantic fisheries commission, which was set up in 1990 have a great personal interest. to facilitate action on conservation issues of mutual concern around the Falkland Islands? Mr Bellingham: I certainly respect the will of the Hungarian electorate. However, we strongly urge the Mr Browne: It is a source of regret to us that the Hungarian authorities to consider the implications of many fruitful negotiations between the United Kingdom the new laws for political balance and to work with the and Argentina in the 1990s on this topic were effectively Commission to ensure that the laws are consistent with suspended in 2007, when the Argentines withdrew their EU norms. co-operation. We want to work closely, co-operatively and in a friendly spirit with Argentina on a range of EU Economic Conditions issues, including this one. It is a source of regret to us that that has not been possible in recent years. 5. Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): What recent assessment he has made of the implications for his Mr John Spellar (Warley) (Lab): The whole House Department of economic conditions in the EU. [96691] and, indeed, the country will be outraged at reports that two British cruise liners, the Adonia and the Star Princess, The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth were refused entry to a port in southern Argentina. Affairs (Mr William Hague): The agreement on a second What representations have the Government made to the rescue package for Greece last week is encouraging for Argentine authorities and to the international maritime Greece and the European economy. The crisis in the authorities about this completely unjustified action? eurozone is having a chilling effect on growth across Europe. 135 Oral Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Oral Answers 136

The Government are arguing vigorously for EU action Relations with France are very good and very close. Of to promote growth by deepening the single market, course, the Prime Minister sometimes meets opposition boosting trade and cutting red tape. leaders and sometimes does not, but I am not aware of governmental leaders across Europe taking a different Claire Perry: Will the Secretary of State tell the approach from his. House what his Department is doing to improve the economic conditions right here in Britain? Are we using Syria our global network of embassies and business contacts to promote British exports, especially those of small companies? 6. Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con): What recent reports he has received on the security situation in Mr Hague: Yes, we absolutely are. The prosperity of Syria; and if he will make a statement. [96692] the country is one of our key objectives. My hon. Friend may have noticed that our exports to India, 15. Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) Turkey, Brazil and other emerging economies went up (Con): What recent reports he has received on the sharply in 2011. That is very important, given that the security situation in Syria; and if he will make a eurozone economy is flat and that our exports have statement. [96704] declined. The Foreign Office is highly active in helping businesses, including small businesses, to seek out new The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth export markets. Affairs (Mr William Hague): I am horrified at the continued violence of the Syrian regime against its own Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Will the people. We will use all diplomatic and economic means Foreign Secretary update the House on the preparations to bring an end to the violence. Those responsible for that are being made in the event of a default by the the shelling of homes, the execution of detainees, the Greek Government and the possible collapse of the killing of political opponents and the torture and rape euro? of women and children must be held to account in the future. Mr Hague: We have contingency plans for many eventualities in the world, and I ensure that they are Sajid Javid: Journalists in conflict zones risk their fully up to date. The right hon. Gentleman will understand lives every day to bring us unbiased news, and that is why I do not go into more detail about those plans, why my condolences go to the family and friends of because doing so can create a greater expectation that Marie Colvin. On that note, will the Foreign Secretary they are going to happen, but we are prepared for any update the House on the whereabouts of the wounded eventuality. British journalist who was in Syria?

19. [96708] Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) Mr Hague: My hon. Friend is quite right—the thoughts (Con): I suggest that EU politicians are failing to recognise of much of the nation have been with the family and that the eurozone is a dead man walking. Given the friends of Marie Colvin. I am happy to confirm, though, effective suspension of democracy in at least two countries that the injured British journalist Paul Conroy is safely and the deepening democratic deficit across the eurozone, in Lebanon, where he is receiving full consular assistance. as politicians break the rules in order to save the euro I pay tribute to journalists who ensure that the world is and their dream of political union, why is Britain aware of the crimes that are being committed, which we supporting the anti-democratic zeal of those politicians are determined to document and seek justice for. Too as they make worse this self-made crisis? many people have already lost their lives in Homs and Mr Hague: To put it in a slightly more balanced way, elsewhere in Syria, and we will urge the Syrian regime to I have pointed out for many years that one of the ensure both an end to the violence against civilians and disadvantages of the euro is the loss of national sovereign safe access for humanitarian agencies. decision making to the countries concerned. However, there is one flaw in my hon. Friend’s argument, which is Mr Evennett: I congratulate my right hon. Friend on that it is very clear that not only the representatives but, the UK’s initiative to help gather evidence of the crimes at the moment, the people of Greece choose to try to against humanity in Syria. Will he update the House on stay in the euro. That is the democratic choice that they the progress of that important work, and can he confirm are making, and we should support them in it if that is whether other nations and international organisations their choice. are involved as well? Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): Mr Hague: This work is progressing. We are sending The European Union is our biggest trading partner, teams to border areas and ensuring that people can and a resolution to the eurozone crisis is clearly in our come to a single documentation hub to bring together national interest. Given that our bilateral relationship the evidence of the crimes that are being committed. I with France is central to that, why is it being reported spoke about that at the Tunis meeting of more than that the Prime Minister has refused to meet one of the 60 nations last Friday, to encourage other nations to leading presidential candidates, François Hollande, when join in that initiative or take initiatives or their own, and he visits London tomorrow? I believe that other nations will be doing so. Mr Hague: Yes, the bilateral relationship with France Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): What discussions is of great importance, and it is true that our co-operation, has the Secretary of State had with Turkey, the Arab particularly on foreign and security policy, is the closest countries and our NATO allies about the idea of creating that it has been at any time since the second world war. a safe haven in north-western Syria? 137 Oral Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Oral Answers 138

Mr Hague: I have had many discussions over the last Mr Hague: It is a constant cry of the international week with Turkey and Arab nations on the margins of community, including among the more than 60 nations our Somalia conference, in Tunis and at other meetings. that met in Tunis on Friday, that humanitarian access That idea has been debated—in public, never mind in needs to be granted, but the regime, which, in the view private—but the difficulty of establishing safe areas of the UN commission of inquiry, has committed crimes without agreement with the country concerned is against humanity, is insensitive even to those demands considerable. Without such agreement, military force for humanitarian access or for pauses each day in the will be required—and sufficient military to force to be conflict—it has refused to do that. We are doing our wholly effective, because one of the worst things we best to send humanitarian assistance. The UK has could do, I believe, is to tell people that they might be provided assistance that will amount to tens of thousands safe and be unable to provide that safety to them. None of food rations and other emergency supplies, and we of those discussions, therefore, have led to the idea are increasingly co-ordinating our work with other countries. being adopted in the international community. European Court of Justice Mr Douglas Alexander (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab): The Opposition welcome the fact that the EU yesterday announced further sanctions on Syria. 7. George Eustice (Camborne and Redruth) (Con): Will the Foreign Secretary confirm that those sanctions What progress has been made in selecting a included travel bans on a further seven close associates replacement for the UK’s judge at the European Court of President Assad? If that is correct, does he agree that of Justice, following the end of the incumbent’s the public naming of many more individuals in that appointment in 2012. [96693] way, specifically including military commanders presently engaged in murder and slaughter in Homs, would help The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth to sharpen the choice for individual members of the Affairs (Mr William Hague): We expect to be in a security apparatus? position to nominate a candidate for this position within the next month. The successful candidate should be Mr Hague: Yes—I agree in general. We adopted a able to take up the position when the term of the number of measures yesterday in Brussels, including incumbent judge expires later this year. sanctions on the Central Bank of Syria. As the right hon. Gentleman says, we also extended by another George Eustice: Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovenia seven names the list, which is now more than 150 strong, involve their national Parliaments in the process of of individuals and entities on whom we have restrictions, selecting the judges whom they send to the ECJ. Given travel bans and asset freezes. We are entirely open to the power that the ECJ can have on this country’s legal extending that list further, but we of course take care to system, what plans does my right hon. Friend have to ensure that we are sure of our ground and that those involve the House in any future appointments? individuals are actually complicit in the regime’s repression. As further evidence accumulates, we will certainly want to add to that list. Mr Hague: We have improved the nomination procedure by advertising the position publicly and subjecting applicants Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD): Does to interview by an independent panel of experts, prior my right hon. Friend agree that the unpalatable fact is to ministerial clearance. My hon. Friend raises a legitimate that we do not have many options in relation to Syria? point. As things stand, parliamentary decisions on this Does he also agree that one option worth following is to matter are inconsistent with existing constitutional practice persuade the Russians to give up their unquestioning in the United Kingdom, and any change to the current support for Syria on the ground that it is deeply damaging procedure would, of course, set a precedent with wider to their long-term interests and should cease? Does he implications. That can be debated in the House. I am remember the impact on Milosevic and Serbia of the conscious of the interest that the House takes and withdrawal of Russian support? commit to keeping it updated on the progress made.

Mr Hague: My right hon. and learned Friend is right West Bank that that would be a desirable piece of persuasion to accomplish. I have had discussions with the Russian 8. Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab): What support Foreign Minister, including at length after the vetoing his Department is providing to private sector initiatives of our Security Council resolution, and it must be said in the west bank. [96694] that the Russians are not yet persuaded of that position. However, I hope others will join in that persuasion. I have spoken in the last hour to the new UN and Arab The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign League special envoy, Kofi Annan, who is charged with and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair Burt): Our private promoting a political process and solution. I hope that sector initiative in the west bank and Gaza supports he will bring his persuasive powers to bear on both about 500 companies. We attribute perhaps £50 million Russia and China. to sales and exports, and also support about 2,200 jobs.

Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab): As Mrs McGuire: Last year, I visited Rawabi, a new the situation in Syria continues to deteriorate, an estimated Palestinian city being built near Ramallah. It is the 70,000 Syrians are fleeing to Jordan and many more to biggest private sector project in Palestinian history and Lebanon. What steps has the Foreign Secretary taken to is being facilitated by the Portland Trust with the Palestinian put pressure on the Syrian regime to allow humanitarian Authority. Does the Minister agree that economic progress assistance and to enable civilians to leave the country? will be an important component of peace? Will he 139 Oral Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Oral Answers 140 update the House on the recent package of economic ammunition. The precise details of the treaty have yet measures reportedly offered by the Israeli Government to be negotiated. I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s in response to the Quartet? comments about the noticeable support of NGOs. I particularly thank Amnesty International for its recent Alistair Burt: I do indeed agree with the right hon. comment on the preparatory conference. It said that Lady. The economic development of the west bank has “the UK championed our right to be in the room during final been a significant feature of the past few years, coupled negotiations”. with security improvements, and it is a measure of the That is a measure of our relationship with NGOs in relationship between Israel and the Palestinian Authority support of a robust and effective treaty. that this has continued. We want the discussions between the Israelis and Palestinians that were started in Amman to continue. A package of support is part of those Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): Mr Speaker, continuing discussions, and there is no doubt that a you and the Minister will recall that one year ago I comprehensive settlement will be of benefit to both the asked an urgent question on Bahrain, when the House Palestinian and the Israeli economies. was shocked to learn that we were still exporting arms to the country used in the repression of its citizens. Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): Commerce, Today, people are still locked up in prison, and Amnesty restaurants and hotels continue to provide the highest reports hundreds, dozens, scores of political prisoners number of jobs in the west bank, according to a recent and tear gas being thrown into confined spaces. It is just United Nations Relief and Works Agency report on the as brutal as ever it was, yet we have resumed arms sales Palestinian labour market. Given that these sectors to Bahrain. Again, may I ask the Minister and the stand to benefit directly from a future Israeli-Palestinian Government to suspend arms sales to these repressive peace agreement, will the Foreign Secretary reiterate the regimes until a political and peaceful solution has been importance of the Palestinian Authority returning to found? direct peace negotiations without preconditions? Alistair Burt: If the right hon. Gentleman looks at Mr Speaker: Order. I remind the House that we are precisely what has been sold to Bahrain, he will find talking about private sector initiatives in the west bank, that licences for any items that could be used for internal not about the peace process more widely. I want a brief repression have been refused. Body armour, sporting reply from the Minister, and then we will move on. targets and rifles, and naval cannon have been sold, but these things cannot be used for internal repression. We Alistair Burt: The health of the private sector economy support the reform process that is under way through is a component part of the all-round package for the the independent commission that is working in Bahrain, future of the Palestinian Authority and Israel to which and we support all political parties in working towards my hon. Friend alludes. There is no doubt that a a settlement and reforms there. comprehensive settlement will benefit both the state and private sector economies, and I am pleased that she raised the matter. UN Commission on the Status of Women Arms Trade Treaty 10. Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): 9. Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): What recent What his priorities are for the 56th session of the UN progress has been made in negotiations on an Commission on the Status of Women. [96699] international arms trade treaty; and if he will make a statement. [96695] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): My The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign hon. Friend the Minister for Equalities is currently in and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair Burt): The United New York attending the commission. She will be pressing Kingdom remains committed to a robust and effective for more progress on meeting the millennium development arms trade treaty. The recent preparatory conference in goals, tackling violence and discrimination against women, New York had a successful outcome as far as the and challenging the way women are represented by the Government and leading non-governmental organisations global media. were concerned, and we look forward to the full negotiating conference in July. Diana Johnson: Given that the UN Commission on Duncan Hames: The UK delegation clearly proved the Status of Women is focusing on the rights of women crucial in making progress at the conference. Throughout in rural areas, will the Minister say what action his the Arab spring, Governments in the region have used Government are taking to encourage the participation policing and security equipment, including tear gas and of women in rural Afghanistan? batten rounds, against peaceful protesters, sometimes with lethal effect. Will the Minister give his strong Mr Bellingham: We are publishing our national action support to a genuinely bullet-proof treaty that includes plan today, and Ministers at the Department for those items? International Development have made it clear, in DFID’s “Strategic vision for girls and women”, that stressing Alistair Burt: We have said clearly that we want a the importance of empowering rural girls and women is comprehensive arms trade treaty, which would include essential for global prosperity, achieving the MDGs all conventional weapons, including small arms and and ensuring safer and more stable rural communities. 141 Oral Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Oral Answers 142

Somalia Mr Hague: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his remarks. The conference was well supported by 11. Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con): other nations, which were delighted with the outcome. What recent reports he has received on the political We have received stronger diplomatic support, and a situation in Somalia; and if he will make a statement. stronger welcome around the world, for this than for [96700] any other diplomatic initiative that I can recall in recent years. That in itself is welcome and shows the commitment The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth of the international community to this matter. We do Affairs (Mr William Hague): At the London conference indeed put a great deal of our humanitarian assistance on Somalia, the international community agreed on the in the direction that my right hon. Friend describes. We need to inject new momentum into the political process, are the second-largest bilateral donor to the horn of using the Garowe principles to chart a route to a Africa, for exactly the reason that he described. broad-based constituent assembly, chosen by the Somali people, that will determine a new and representative Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) Government for Somalia. (Lab): Given the Government’s support for the new stability fund, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that Mark Lancaster: There is growing concern among in order to retain confidence, humanitarian aid, including British Somalis that the sense of isolation experienced that for refugees, should be seen as something quite by those who chew the drug khat is being exploited by separate, necessary though it is? al-Shabaab to recruit in the UK. Now that the UK is completely out of step with Europe, as the only country not to have banned khat, will the Foreign Secretary Mr Hague: Yes, there are many uses for development raise the matter with the Home Secretary as a matter of funds. Much of this is humanitarian aid delivered through urgency? international agencies, and it was of extreme importance during the recent famine in the horn of Africa. Increasingly, Mr Hague: Khat is certainly quite popular among we want to be able to provide stabilisation support, and many Somali people. Indeed, the only other bit of air the more stable each area of Somalia becomes, the more activity I saw when I visited Mogadishu four weeks ago we will be able to do that. At the moment, 60% of such were planes arriving to deliver khat. However, I will funding is going to Somaliland, because that has become certainly look at the point my hon. Friend raises and a more stable area. So, yes, we make a distinction discuss it with the Home Secretary, as he suggests. between different things.

Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): First, may I congratulate Maldives the Foreign Secretary and his team on his work on the Somalia conference? As the final communiqué of the conference says: 12. Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) “We called on all those willing to reject violence to join the (Con): What recent reports he has received on the Djibouti peace process.” political situation in the Maldives; and if he will make How will the Government reach out and engage with a statement. [96701] those individuals to facilitate the broader base for the Somali Government that is necessary to make progress? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair Burt): We remain Mr Hague: All the decisions that were made and set concerned and unclear about the events of 7 February, out in the communiqué at the end of the Somalia in which power transferred from President Nasheed to conference are to be taken forward by different authorities, his vice-president. We welcome an independent inquiry and in this case by the authorities in Somalia, through into those events, and we strongly support the efforts of the creation of a new constituent assembly and, then, a the Indian Government and the Commonwealth Ministerial more legitimate and representative Parliament. That is Action Group in seeking to secure early elections by the a process that is there to be engaged with by people who end of this year. want to be part of a peace process and want now to transform the position of their country. There will be Caroline Nokes: I thank the Minister for that response. some who are irreconcilable and wedded to violence, Will he tell us what progress the Governments have which is why the parallel agreement on expanding the made on securing a date for those early elections, following funding of the AMISOM—African Union Mission in the transfer of power? Somalia—forces is also important. This process is to be taken forward in Somalia, by Somalis, under the Garowe principles. Alistair Burt: So far, it has not been possible to secure a date from the new Administration. We remain absolutely Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): May convinced that an early date for elections—before the I, too, congratulate my right hon. Friend and the whole end of this year—is essential, and we will continue to of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office on their support the efforts of Commonwealth and international remarkable diplomatic and organisational achievement partners to secure that. in convening such a widely attended conference? With an estimated 600,000 Somali refugees now living in Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con): Given that we have Kenya, we now have an unusually valuable opportunity no firm date for elections in the Maldives, will the Minister to ensure that our overseas aid expenditure goes on assure the House that the Government will look closely resettling them in their own country, before they unsettle at any invitations to the Queen’s diamond jubilee that Kenya. might be sent to an unelected Commonwealth President? 143 Oral Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Oral Answers 144

Alistair Burt: My hon. Friend is taking us down a Alistair Burt: Yes, I spoke to the Israeli ambassador particular route, but we will have to wait and see what on 23 February about our concerns about the demolitions. happens. We are quite sure that we need answers from We will continue to raise that issue. There have been a the Administration about what has happened. I am in number of more positive moves over the past few months. regular contact with the former vice-president and with I understand that some of the demolitions suggested in former President Nasheed, to whom I spoke less than a the Bedouin area of E1 have now been suspended, couple of hours ago. We are watching the situation which we believe is good progress, as is the decision not extremely carefully, but there are still questions to be to demolish the school at Khan al-Ahmar that I visited answered if the situation is to be regularised as far as a short time ago. the United Kingdom is concerned. Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): Continued settlement activity on the west bank cannot Human Rights be helpful in securing peace, but does the Minister believe that this is the only barrier to peace when the total withdrawal of all settlers in Gaza resulted in rule 13. Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) by Hamas and a continuing focus on attacks on Israeli (Lab): What assessment he has made of the likely settlements? progress on human rights issues at (a) the next meeting of the Human Rights Council Advisory Committee and (b) the 56th session of the UN Commission on the Alistair Burt: The hon. Lady rightly gives expression Status of Women. [96702] to the complexity of the situation in Israel and the difficulty surrounding the settlement issue, where one side sees it as an obstruction to progress but the other The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign remembers what happened in relation to Gaza. The and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): United Kingdom is firmly of the view that continued The advisory committee sat from 20 to 24 February, settlement expansion is an obstacle to peace, but that and we shall assess its recommendations when they are the confidence and security needed to create an overall presented to the Human Rights Council. I said in an settlement is essential between the two sides, which is earlier reply that my hon. Friend the Minister for Equalities why we welcome the continuing conversations in Oman was currently in New York pressing for progress on between the Palestinian Authority and Israeli leaders. ending discrimination and violence against women. Regional Security (Afghanistan) Sandra Osborne: I thank the Minister for that response. What action are the Government taking to call on the Government of Sri Lanka to bring to justice those who 16. Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): are responsible for human rights abuses—particularly What discussions he has had with his counterparts in the many acts of violence against women—within a Pakistan and other countries bordering Afghanistan reasonable time scale? on the effect on security of the draw-down of allied forces. [96705] Mr Bellingham: We obviously want the Government of Sri Lanka to implement the HRC recommendations, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and we will be pushing them as hard as we can to do so. and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair Burt): In the bilateral We will certainly ensure that the hon. Lady’s strong conversations with Pakistan and at the Istanbul conference representations on the subject are passed on. in November last year, there was a focus on regional security in the full light of combat troop withdrawals. The long-term commitment of the international community West Bank to the security of Afghanistan will be confirmed at the NATO summit in Chicago in May.

14. Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): What Lilian Greenwood: The Minister will be aware of the recent reports he has received on settlement activity in humanitarian cost of previous fighting in the border the west bank; and if he will make a statement. [96703] regions between Afghanistan and Pakistan, including over 1 million displaced people. What assessment has he The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign made of the impact on children and communities of the and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair Burt): We receive draw-down of allied forces, and what steps has he put in regular reports from our posts in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem place to mitigate it? on settlement activity on the west bank. We were concerned to hear on 22 February of moves to legalise existing Alistair Burt: The Department for International housing in Shvut Rachel and Shilo, both of which are Development has a substantial programme to assist those deep within the west bank, but we acknowledge that in Afghanistan. We are acutely conscious of the issues those were the first such announcements this year. affecting withdrawal. There will be a further conference in Tokyo this year where the long-term commitment on Mr Wilson: I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. development will be considered. This conference can be Is he aware of the campaign, supported by many of my seen in conjunction with those in Bonn and Chicago, as constituents, to prevent the illegal demolitions in Silwan I mentioned, that will look comprehensively at the neighbourhood and the village of al-Aqaba? Will he international community’s support for Afghanistan post- pledge to continue to raise this important issue with his 2014. Development issues and the protection of women Israeli counterparts? and children are a key feature of that. 145 Oral Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Oral Answers 146

UK Exports assistance to Burma, and will be spending an average of £46 million a year until 2015 on precisely the sort of 17. Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con): projects that the hon. Gentleman has identified. What steps he is taking to encourage the use of the UK’s embassies and high commissions to support the Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): I promotion of UK exports. [96706] understand that our ambassador meets Burmese Ministers regularly. What is at the top of his agenda when it The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign comes to highlighting the continued abuse of human and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): rights? Supporting UK firms is at the heart of our diplomacy. Our missions overseas are taking a leading role in Mr Browne: My hon. Friend is right to draw the campaigns to win new business. We have a dynamic House’s attention to the appalling abuses of human Trade Minister in my noble Friend Lord Green and a rights that been taking place in Burma for many years. I highly focused prosperity directorate at the Foreign and think it reasonable for us to acknowledge that progress Commonwealth Office. We are determined to play our appears to have been made in recent months, and, when part in driving up British exports. appropriate, to reward it, but we should not anticipate further progress before it has happened. Our ambassador Elizabeth Truss: Under the previous Government, and others, including Ministers, are keen to continue to the number of embassies we had overseas was reduced press the Burmese Government to liberalise society and exports flatlined as a proportion of gross domestic further in that country. product, whereas in Germany exports have increased as a proportion of GDP—up to 50% now. What steps are Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op): The progress the Government taking to open more embassies to help in Burma is very welcome, and no doubt the Burmese firms like Herbert Engineering in South West Norfolk, Government will want to see changes to the current which plans to export 65% of all its goods next year to sanctions regime. I was pleased to note that the Minister countries as far away as China and Dubai? said that it was probably too early for that to happen, but what discussions have been held with our European Mr Bellingham: My hon. Friend is spot on. Our counterparts about the issue? exports in 2011 were up 10.7%, while our trade deficit fell from £36.7 billion in 2010 to £28 billion in 2011. It Mr Browne: A decision is likely to be made in a few is, of course, our intention to get into surplus. That is months’ time. I think it right for Britain to maintain a one reason why we are opening new missions around position on trade with Burma which is very tough, and the world, including five in Africa. I am glad that my which takes account of the concerns about human hon. Friend highlighted the excellent engineering business, rights abuses in the country that are expressed frequently R J Herbert Engineering, which is a superb example of in the House, but we want to maintain a common a medium-sized engineering company succeeding in European position, because we feel that that is an tough export markets. effective way in which to proceed. We will maintain that position with a hard-headed attitude which I hope will Burma meet with the hon. Lady’s approval.

18. Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): What reports Topical Questions he has received on humanitarian access to conflict areas in Burma. [96707] T1. [96712] Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Jeremy Browne): We receive regular updates The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth on humanitarian access to conflict areas in Burma from Affairs (Mr William Hague): I attended the EU Foreign non-governmental organisations and from our embassy Affairs Council in Brussels yesterday. We agreed on a and Department for International Development officials number of additions to our sanctions against the Assad in Rangoon. Access is still very restricted, and we regime, notably the freezing of the assets of the Central continue to press the Burmese Government to increase Bank of Syria, a ban on imports of gold and precious humanitarian access to all areas. metals, a ban on cargo flights, and the listing of seven more Government Ministers. Graham Jones: In addition to medical supplies, Médecins sans Frontières has recently highlighted the chronic Julian Sturdy: I am always sympathetic about the lack of antiretroviral and tuberculosis drugs in Burma. dangers facing the Israeli people from some of their In the light of that, what conversations has the Foreign aggressive neighbours, and will remain so, but does the Secretary had with the Burmese Government about the Secretary of State agree that settlement-building international supply of these drugs? programmes are never a means to an end and are, in fact, becoming a serious obstacle to peace? Mr Browne: The Foreign Secretary visited Burma last month—he was the first Foreign Secretary to do so since Mr Hague: Yes, I do agree with that. As the Under- 1955—and had a wide range of productive conversations Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth with the Burmese Government and others. It is worth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for North East pointing out that although no United Kingdom aid Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), has often pointed out, we goes through the Burmese Government directly, the have made very strong representations to the Israeli United Kingdom is the largest donor of humanitarian Government whenever settlements have been announced 147 Oral Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Oral Answers 148 in recent times. Settlements are on occupied land, they T2. [96713] Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): Does are illegal—that is the view of almost the whole of the the Foreign Secretary share my concerns about the rest of the world—and this is an issue that Israel must proposed evictions of Palestinian families and the address. demolition of their homes in the Silwan area of East Jerusalem? If so, what representations is he making to Mr Douglas Alexander (Paisley and Renfrewshire the Israeli Government and what actions are the UK South) (Lab): Given the recent violence in Afghanistan Government taking to help prevent the destruction of in response to the unintentional burning of the Koran these Palestinian homes? at a United States air base, and given that it took some time for President Karzai to call for an end to the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign violence, are the Government fully satisfied with the and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair Burt): On behalf of efforts that he is making to bring the situation fully the United Kingdom Government, I have made under control? representations on Silwan both to the Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister and the Israeli ambassador. It remains Mr Hague: Yes. The British Government, along with a matter of concern for us, and we continue to press on our partners, condemn any behaviour that disrespects these issues in the manner that the Foreign Secretary set any religion. We welcome the apology from President out a moment ago. Obama to President Karzai, which demonstrated sincere regret for the incident—which was, I believe, a genuine T4. [96715] Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) mistake, as was reflected in the right hon. Gentleman’s (Con): Given that the eurozone is a slow-motion train question—and we welcome the calls for calm from the crash, will the Government divert some of the extra Afghan Government. We echo President Karzai’s call billions of pounds they are, yet again, about to throw at to the Afghan people, as he put it, the inflated EU budget into furthering trade relationships “not to allow the enemies of peace to exploit the opportunity for with the Commonwealth? A shared language, shared their own ends”. accounting and legal systems and growing markets suggest that that is a no-brainer. Mr Alexander: Is the Foreign Secretary fully satisfied more generally with the work that President Karzai is Mr Hague: I think that my hon. Friend has had the doing? The objective of achieving peace is one that we euro as both a dead man walking and a train crash in all share, but according to the latest reports there are the same Question Time, so his metaphors are becoming continuing concerns about corruption, governance and, a little confused. However, we certainly are putting more broadly, the provision of services and security. much-increased effort into our trade with emerging economies across the world, including many Mr Hague: Of course there are always things that we Commonwealth nations. My hon. Friend might like to are urging the Afghanistan Government to do, and know that the Commonwealth represents a steadily addressing accusations of corruption and improving increasing proportion of the trade of the world. That governance—both from Kabul and around the country— underlines the importance of our renewed commitment are important examples. However, our relations with to it under this Government. the Afghanistan Government are very good. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the Prime Minister and President Karzai met a month ago to sign a long-term T9. [96720] Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): Twenty-four enduring partnership between our countries, which hours ago, a new President was sworn in in Yemen, yet demonstrates the good basis of trust between our at the same time 26 people were killed in a suicide bomb Governments. attack in the south. What steps are the Government taking to support the new Government of President Hadi at this crucial moment in Yemen’s history, and T3. [96714] Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): when will the Foreign Secretary visit the country? Burhan Ghalioun, chairman of the Syrian national council, has said that a revolution in Syria will not be successful without the support of the minorities in that Mr Hague: As the right hon. Gentleman knows, I country, and he has offered to ensure that the rights of have visited Yemen, as has my ministerial colleague, my minorities are protected in a post-Assad Syria. With hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire Kurds representing up to 20% of the Syrian population (Alistair Burt), and he will be visiting again in the and the Christian community a further 9% to 12%, not-too-distant future. Over the past few weeks we have what discussions has my right hon. Friend had with the had discussions with the then vice-president, who has SNC and its chairman on this subject? since been inaugurated as the new President. Yemen now has a genuine moment of opportunity. We will Mr Hague: I discussed that issue, and many others, revive the Friends of Yemen process, which has the with the chairman and his SNC colleagues in Tunis on potential to bring a lot of co-ordinated international Friday. I have long encouraged them to set out their support to the efforts of the Government of Yemen to determination to protect minorities and to seek to represent bring stability and peace to their country. all communities in Syria. On this occasion, I was impressed by the chairman’s determination to do so and by the T5. [96716] Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con): speech he gave to the conference in Tunis, which contained Last August the Deputy Prime Minister announced a full commitment to democracy and the protection of that up to £20 million from the Arab Partnership Fund minorities. It is very good that the Syrian opposition would be allocated to Libya from 2012 to 2015. That have made those things clear. investment is co-funded by the Department for International 149 Oral Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Oral Answers 150

Development and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. T7. [96718] Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) How much of the money will be spent on poverty-reducing (Con): There is considerable nervousness among Christian economic growth? communities across the middle east in these uncertain times, and apparently many Copts are beginning to Alistair Burt: I cannot confirm the exact amount leave Egypt. What discussions have the Government because the Arab Partnership projects in Libya are still had with the Egyptian authorities on religious tolerance? being rolled out, but money is being spent not only on building capacity in Ministries that will be designed to Alistair Burt: My hon. Friend raises a subject of work on these difficult issues, but on democracy building considerable concern, not only in Egypt, but across a and the like. I will ensure that my hon. Friend receives a range of countries, as she rightly said. We engage bilaterally full list of current projects as soon as possible. with those countries on the importance of the rule of law and of rights, stressing to Governments how important Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): Ministers those things are. Equally, I keep in contact with the will know that there is a sizeable Somali community in non-governmental organisations that deal with this issue; Leicester, many of whom followed the deliberations of I saw representatives of Christians from Pakistan in my the recent conference with great interest. I am keen to office just last week. This is a matter of concern all over find out how Ministers plan to continue to engage with the region and so the remarks made by Burhan Ghalioun that community. In addition, to what extent was the role in Syria about reaching out to Christian minorities of children discussed at the conference? What more can there were particularly significant. be done internationally to protect children in that part of the world? Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): Reference has been made this afternoon to the emerging political The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and security difficulties in Afghanistan. Have the and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): Government assessed how capable the Afghan state is There has been a huge amount of engagement with the of effectively administering the presidential elections Somali diaspora in this country, both on the part of due in 2014? FCO Ministers and from the Prime Minister downwards. Indeed, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has Mr Hague: As the hon. Lady says, those elections are met Somali diaspora groups on a number of occasions, due in 2014. Over previous elections the Afghan state, and I have had five such meetings and have visited the supported by the international security assistance force, Finsbury Park mosque as a result of an invitation from has shown an increasing capability to administer elections the local MP.We will carry on that engagement, because safely. I am sure that that capability will increase much understanding the views of these groups and their further over the next two years, given that the build-up vision for the future, including that of their children, is of the Afghan national security forces is continuing. As incredibly important. she knows, it is our intention that by the end of 2014 the Afghan national security forces will be able to conduct T6. [96717] Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): Will the security all over Afghanistan for themselves, and that Foreign Secretary assure us that the UK will give no includes supervising elections. support, militarily or diplomatically to Israel if it launches an armed attack on Iran? T8. [96719] Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con): Given the growing tensions between Azerbaijan and Iran, Mr Hague: My hon. Friend will be aware of our which are extremely worrying, what are we doing to policy on Iran, which was debated thoroughly at the upgrade our diplomatic support to Azerbaijan, which is beginning of last week, when the Government’s approach both politically and economically extremely important was massively endorsed in this House on 20 February. to this country? So we have set out our policy in detail. We are not calling for or advocating a military attack on Iran, and Mr Hague: We have good links with Azerbaijan, at this moment we advise others not to do so. But we particularly given its current membership of the UN also believe that it is important to keep Iran under Security Council—it joined a few months ago. So our pressure and that no options are taken off the table. diplomatic contact and co-ordination with Azerbaijan has increased. As to the level of representation, we Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): If the regularly review that but I do not have any new Secretary of State is committed to the UK being a announcement to make about that at the moment. world leader on business and human rights, as I am sure he is, what is he doing to persuade the Secretary of State Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): Earlier, the Foreign for Justice to drop the provisions in the Legal Aid, Secretary outlined the atrocities in Syria. Will he say in Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill that will which circumstances he would stop maintaining diplomatic shift liability for cost and insurance away from multinational relations with Syria? companies and on to innocent victims in developing countries? Mr Hague: There are good arguments for and against maintaining diplomatic relations in these circumstances. Mr Hague: My Department has had discussions with We have seen in recent days some of the advantages of the Ministry of Justice about this matter, and the hon. maintaining relations, because our ambassador in Lady will be aware of the Government’s position, as set Damascus has been very active in trying to secure the out by the Justice Secretary. Of course if there is any safe passage out of Syria of the injured journalist who change in that position, it will be for my right hon. and we were discussing earlier. Having people on the ground learned Friend to announce it. and having a channel of communication has a value, 151 Oral Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Oral Answers 152 even when we so deeply disapprove of the conduct of such loans to Argentina? In fact, will he make the Government concerned. Of course, we must keep representations that we should stop making contributions under review for security reasons the position of our to those loans? embassy in Damascus and I stress that that is something that I keep under very intense review. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Jeremy Browne): I share the hon. Gentleman’s fury and frustrations about the economic blockade that T10. [96721] Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): The the Argentines are seeking to enforce against the Falkland Minister will be aware of the shocking murder of Christians Islands. On this specific issue, I have made inquiries as I in Borno state, northern Nigeria, by Boko Haram. Will know that there are concerns in the House and I have he outline what steps the British Government might be been told that no UK taxpayers’ money is spent on able to take to assist the Nigerian Government in dealing providing finance to Argentina through the World Bank, with that problem? nor does the Department for International Development give any aid at present to Argentina. Mr Bellingham: I certainly share my hon. Friend’s Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): Building on outrage at these attacks on both Christians and Muslim the success of the marine protected area in the British groups in northern Nigeria. The Prime Minister met Indian ocean, may I ask the Minister what recent assessment President Goodluck Jonathan last week and the UK he has made of the merits of establishing marine protected has offered to share experience on counter-terrorism areas in Pitcairn, Tristan da Cunha, South Georgia and policy, doctrine and legal frameworks. We have also the South Sandwich Islands? offered to promote more bridge-building initiatives between Christians and Muslims. Mr Bellingham: My hon. Friend might be interested to know that 90% of Britain’s biodiversity lies in the Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): In view of the fact that overseas territories, which is why a very important part the Argentines are economically blockading the Falkland of the forthcoming White Paper on the overseas territories Islands and threatening the self-determination of the will be devoted to how we manage that habitat and its Falkland Islanders, will the Foreign Secretary make biodiversity. Of course, the territories he has mentioned representations to his right hon. Friend the International will play an important part in that exercise. Development Secretary to ensure that the UK votes Several hon. Members rose— differently at the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank and instead supports American efforts Mr Speaker: Order. I am sorry to disappoint colleagues, to galvanise a coalition among G20 countries to deny but we must now move on. 153 28 FEBRUARY 2012 Health and Social Care Bill 154

Health and Social Care Bill price of that care and treatment—then competition can play an important role in driving up standards throughout the NHS. 3.32 pm We will not see a market free-for-all or a “US-style” Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab) (Urgent Question):To insurance system in this country. I believe in the national ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a health service. I am a passionate supporter of our NHS, statement on the Health and Social Care Bill following and that is why I understand the passionate debate it a letter from the Deputy Prime Minister to MPs and arouses. It is also why I resent those Opposition Members peers and the Government’s response. who seek to misrepresent the NHS, its current achievements and its future needs. We—and I do mean all of us on the The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): Government Benches—are using the debates in the Lords I am glad to have this opportunity again to set out the further to reassure all those who care about the NHS. I purposes of the Health and Social Care Bill. It will give am grateful for this chance to reassure all my hon. patients more information and choice, so that they can Friends regarding the positive and beneficial effects of share in decision-making about their care. It empowers debate in the other place and about the work we are all front-line doctors and nurses to lead the delivery of care doing to secure a positive future for the NHS. for their patients. It cuts out two tiers of bureaucracy and strengthens the voice of patients and the role of Andy Burnham: On Friday, the Prime Minister promised local government in integrating services and strengthening there would be no more amendments, and yesterday public health. lunch time the Minister of State, Department of Health, The values of the Bill are simple: putting patients the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns) said first, trusting doctors and nurses, focusing on results for that the whole Government backed the Bill as it stood, patients and maintaining the founding values of the but hours later the Deputy Prime Minister called for NHS. We are constantly looking to reinforce those changes to a flagship Bill that he has supported all values, strengthening the NHS to meet the challenges it the way. The Government appear to be in complete faces. We know change is essential; we will not let the disarray—or perhaps this was pre-agreed coalition NHS down by blocking change. Throughout the choreography for the Deputy Prime Minister to save development and progress of this Bill, we have engaged face. Either way, this House is entitled to ask, “What is extensively with NHS staff, the public, and parliamentarians. going on?” The NHS matters too much for us to allow it The Health and Social Care Bill is the most scrutinised to be carved up in the unelected House in cosy coalition public Bill in living memory—[Interruption.] With over deals, so we are grateful, Mr Speaker, that you have 200 hours of debate between the two Chambers and brought Ministers here today to start providing some 35 days in Committee, we have ensured that Members answers. and peers have had every opportunity to examine, First, on the process, will the Secretary of State tell understand and amend the Bill to—[Interruption.] the House when he was first made aware of the Deputy Prime Minister’s letter? Was he consulted about its Mr Speaker: Order. I granted this question because I contents in advance and did he consent to the apparent want Members to have the chance to scrutinise the change of policy or was he overruled by the Deputy Government of the day, but courtesy dictates that the Prime Minister? Who is in charge of health policy? Is Secretary of State’s statement must be heard. anyone in charge? Secondly, on policy, will the Secretary of State update Mr Lansley: Thank you, Mr Speaker. the House on the precise detail of the changes that the We have made this legislation better and stronger. We Deputy Prime Minister is seeking in the five areas he have made significant changes to the Bill, including in identifies? For instance, we hear that the Deputy Prime response to the NHS Future Forum’s work and we have Minister, having previously defended the 49% private been open to any further changes that would improve or patient income cap for foundation trusts, now wants clarify the Bill. For example, so far in the Lords, the “additional safeguards”. What are those safeguards? Government have accepted amendments tabled by a Are the changes still under discussion or do they now number of Cross-Bench, Liberal Democrat and Labour represent Government policy? Yesterday, the Liberal peers. Democrats played up the changes, but the Secretary of Yesterday, my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime State’s Department has dismissed them as minor. Is his Minister and Baroness Williams wrote to their Liberal view the same as ours that the amendments do not Democrat colleagues explaining their support for the affect the substance of his Bill but rather are cosmetic Bill, with those changes and some further amendments changes designed to make the Deputy Prime Minister they wish to see. They said, for example, how we must look good in advance of his spring conference? “rule out beyond doubt any threat of a US-style market in the The Prime Minister has been clear: this Bill is about NHS”. competition at the heart of the health service. The I wholeheartedly agree. The Bill is about quality, not Deputy Prime Minister has supported it all the way. Are competition on price. It will not permit any NHS not these just empty gestures designed to save face? This organisation to be taken over by the private sector. It is a bad Bill that cannot be amended. Last week, the will put patients’ interests first. The Bill does not permit president of the Lib Dems spoke for his party when he any extension of charging, and care will be free, based admitted that the Bill should have been dropped. Does on need. Where the doctors and nurses on the ground that not explain what this posturing is all about? In know that competition is in the best interests of their their heart of hearts the Liberal Democrats hate this patients—where it is based entirely on the quality of the Bill but have not had the guts to stand up to the Prime care and treatment provided and not in any way on the Minister and say so. Both coalition parties are putting 155 Health and Social Care Bill28 FEBRUARY 2012 Health and Social Care Bill 156 their political pride before the best interests of the has an electoral mandate? As all the parties in the NHS. Is it not time for them to do what they said they House were mandated not to totally reorganise the would do at the start—listen to doctors and nurses and national health service, would it not be wholly proper drop this Bill? for the Liberal Democrats in the Lords to have some guts, join with Labour and Cross Benchers and vote the Mr Lansley: I am not sure the right hon. Gentleman whole measure down? even read the Deputy Prime Minister’s letter, judging from what he has just said. I will tell him exactly what Mr Lansley: The right hon. Gentleman is completely the process is. The process is for detailed discussion in wrong about that. Perhaps he was not here last Wednesday another place. There were 15 days of debate in Committee when we debated health matters. [HON.MEMBERS: “He in another place. It is the habit in another place not to was.”] Well, then he did not listen. I set out very clearly amend the Bill in Committee, but to use those debates how the Bill was responding to the manifesto mandate in Committee as a basis for amendment on Report. The that we in our party had, and it was a manifesto process is straightforward. My right hon. Friend the mandate that the Liberal Democrats brought to the Deputy Prime Minister, together with Baroness Shirley coalition Government, not least in relation to the role Williams, explained to their Liberal Democrat colleagues of local government, bringing greater democratic some of the amendments on which we have been working accountability, which is precisely how some of these together in order to make sure that there is further things have been achieved. If the right hon. Gentleman reassurance. [Interruption.] That is literally true. is talking about a mandate in the Lords, he might like to Let me put the right hon. Gentleman right about tell his colleagues that at the last election his party was something. What is at the heart of the Bill is improving elected on the basis of supporting foundation trusts, for the quality of care for patients. I note that he did not example, to be able to be free to increase their private quote me or represent that he was quoting me. I have income. never said that competition is at the heart of the Bill. Competition is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Several hon. Members rose— The purpose of the Bill is to achieve quality. Where competition enables us to deliver better quality for patients, we should use it. Where integration of services Mr Speaker: Order. If I am to accommodate anywhere and an absence of competition is in the interests of near the level of interest in this important matter, I shall patients in delivering quality, that is the basis upon require brevity—to be led, as so often, by Mr John which the NHS should proceed. The Bill has been Redwood. tremendously strengthened and is now a long-term sustainable basis for the NHS to deliver the quality of Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Am I right to care for patients that we are looking for, while maintaining tell my constituents that the purpose of this reform is to all the values of the NHS. give more choice of care to patients, and to give more power to GPs to deliver better free treatment? Mr Stephen Dorrell (Charnwood) (Con): Has my right hon. Friend yet been able to understand how it Mr Lansley: Yes, absolutely right. can be that a party which, when in government, promoted practice-based commissioning that involved GPs in Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): Given that the right commissioning, promoted private sector investment in hon. Gentleman inherited an NHS with record short NHS institutions, and promoted the commissioning of waiting times, record high public satisfaction and improving care from private sector providers where that was in the competitiveness, does he ever in his darkest moments best interests of patients now thinks all those principles wish that he had not embarked on this damaging and undermine the national health service to which he, we costly upheaval? and presumably the Opposition are still committed?

Mr Lansley: My right hon. Friend makes extremely Mr Lansley: At the last election the average waiting good points. It is interesting that the right hon. Member time for in-patient treatment was 8.4 weeks. In December for Leigh (Andy Burnham) appears to be trying to 2001, when the most recent data were published, it had represent us as not agreeing about matters. He is chronically come down to 7.7 weeks. The right hon. Gentleman incapable of agreeing with himself. In June 2006 the might like to reflect on the fact that the number of then Prime Minister, Tony Blair, said that what the people waiting more than a year for treatment in the NHS needed in future was foundation trusts, practice-based NHS is now more than half what it was at the last commissioning, more involvement for the private sector election. and payment by results. The thing is that Labour in office did not achieve any of those things. It is only Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) through the mechanism of the legislation that we are (LD): I thank the Secretary of State for accepting many putting together that we are going to enable the NHS to of the amendments to the Bill proposed by our colleagues achieve those things in a way that does not entail all the and others and thank his colleague in the House of difficulties that Labour had, such as getting the private Lords for accommodating not only Liberal Democrat sector involvement with the NHS wrong. We are going and Cross-Bench peers, but Labour peers who have to get those things right. joined us in bringing forward such amendments. Will he give an undertaking to continue to work collaboratively Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab): Does to improve the Bill to the very end and reject Labour’s the Secretary of State agree that the Salisbury convention allegations that it did not force privatisation on the requires the House of Lords not to reject a measure if it NHS, which we are definitely not doing? 157 Health and Social Care Bill28 FEBRUARY 2012 Health and Social Care Bill 158

Mr Lansley: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend Mr Lansley: I will tell the hon. Gentleman exactly and thank him for his positive remarks about my noble what the Bill is about: improving care for patients. That Friend Earl Howe. I attach to that my appreciation to is what I care about, and it ought to be what he cares Baroness Northover for the work she has been doing in about. [Interruption.] another place and to the Minister of State, Department of Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Several hon. Members rose— Cheam (Paul Burstow), who is responsible for care services, who has been heavily engaged in discussing Mr Speaker: Order. May I say to the hon. Member some of the amendments. I recall that nearly a year ago for Colne Valley (Jason McCartney) who is chuntering there was a clear expression of interest from the Liberal inanely from a sedentary position, to no obvious benefit Democrats, as a party, on how they felt the Bill should or purpose, that the Chair is perfectly capable of be improved. I was pleased that we were able to bring adjudicating upon what is and is not in order and that it forward changes that reflected virtually all those. Indeed, does not behove an hon. Member to seek to intervene in they are reflected directly in what my right hon. Friend such matters? These proceedings have thus far been the Deputy Prime Minister said in his letter yesterday. entirely orderly. That is the beginning and the end of the matter. Mr Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab): If the competition in the Bill is just an extension of what the Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): There is an previous Government did by introducing independent old political saying that the Liberal Democrats say one sector treatment centres and everything else, why are thing at one end of their constituency and another more than 90 clauses writing into the law of the land thing at the other end. Will the Secretary of State lay that competition policy should run the NHS, not the that rumour absolutely to rest—that they are not saying NHS, as has been the case in the past? one thing at this end of Parliament and another thing at the other end? Mr Lansley: I would not characterise this as an extension of the independent sector treatment centres Mr Lansley: I am happy to be able to tell my hon. programme. That is precisely what we do not need to do Friend that I, with my colleagues, have had very constructive with the private sector. Under the Labour Government, engagement with my Liberal Democrat colleagues in the private sector was paid 11% more than the NHS, government and, indeed, during the course of our debates which was wrong, and in another place there is a in another place. legislative provision that will prevent discrimination in favour of the private sector. The Bill will carry forward Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): exactly the principles and rules of co-operation and Following the question from the hon. Member for Mid competition, as reflected in the panel set up under the Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries), can the Secretary of previous Government. As NHS Future Forum set out, State tell us when he was aware of the letter, whether he the reason for having that in the Bill, with Monitor was consulted on it and whether he had any input? exercising those responsibilities, is so that there will be a Mr Lansley: I believe that I answered that question. health sector regulator, rather than that being done The point of the letter was to reflect the discussions that without health expertise by the Office of Fair Trading. we have been having.

Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con): Some Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): Does Conservative Members never criticised, and in fact my right hon. Friend accept that the debate so far risks supported, the previous Government when they introduced ignoring the importance of the Bill’s renewed outcomes? private health care providers into the NHS. In his letter, In cancer, for example, such focus is instrumental in the Deputy Prime Minister said that the use of private driving forward earlier diagnosis, which in itself could health care firms has been explicitly prevented as a save quite literally thousands of lives. result of his involvement. Is that really true? If so, should someone not tell him who is running this Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I Government? am sure that in that context he shares with me the appreciation of the benefit that will come from campaigns Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend knows perfectly well to promote the early awareness of cancer, such as, that we are a coalition Government and, therefore, this following piloting, the roll-out of the national campaign is a coalition Bill that reflects the views of the whole for the awareness of bowel cancer symptoms. coalition. To that extent, I reiterate to her and to the House that, as the Deputy Prime Minister has quite John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): Is not rightly said, the legislation will not allow discrimination this another attempted PR and political fix for a in favour of the private sector in the way that the mismanaged health Bill that is again in chaos? Which of Labour party did. the changes set out in the Deputy Prime Minister’s letter was not agreed in government first? Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): All those royal colleges, all those nurses and all those doctors know Mr Lansley: Would that be the same Bill that the that this Bill is about privatisation. Along come these right hon. Gentleman described as “consistent, coherent tin-pot Liberals, who put forward an idea to make a few and comprehensive”? marginal shifts. It is the biggest con trick of all time. This is about trying to save the face of those people, Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) (Con): May I ask who should have opposed the Bill from the very beginning. the Secretary of State today to confirm again that when Drop this lousy Bill. the Bill becomes law the national health service will 159 Health and Social Care Bill28 FEBRUARY 2012 Health and Social Care Bill 160 remain funded through taxation and free at the point of Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): use regardless of ability to pay? Opposition Front Benchers The Deputy Prime Minister’s letter promised should stop scaring our constituents with grossly “additional safeguards to the private income cap”. inappropriate scare stories. Will the Secretary of State explain what are these additional safeguards aimed at ensuring that foundation trusts Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I cannot focus on private profits before patients? share his deep resentment at the way in which Opposition Members misrepresent and distort what is in the legislation Mr Lansley: We have already made it very clear in and then, when people write to us concerned about another place that the legislation will ensure that foundation what is in the legislation, accuse us of not listening to trusts should have the freedom to increase their private them. Opposition Members should read what is in the income, not least in relation to international work. Bill, find out that it achieves the purposes that my hon. However, their principal legal purpose is for the benefit Friend describes and not distort it. of NHS patients, and so they already have to make sure that they reflect that in their annual reports and in their Mr Speaker: Order. I simply say to the Secretary of annual plans. As the letter indicates, we are, with my State that to refer to somebody “distorting” something hon. Friends in another place, working on a further is perfectly in order, but I know that he would not want corporate governance mechanism to ensure that foundation to use an unparliamentary term and talk about anything trusts reflect their principal legal purpose in all that being “misrepresented”. I think he is accusing a Member they do. [Interruption.] of being erroneous. I think that is what he has in mind. Mr Speaker: Order. I want to hear the questions and Mr Lansley: You are absolutely right, Mr Speaker. the answers. Members are a little overexcited and they They are very erroneous. need to calm down just a tad. A good example of such calm will now, I am sure, be provided by Mr John Hemming. Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): There is clearly no mandate, either in this House or in the other place, for these huge changes and massive top-down John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): Under reorganisation. Some 162,000 people have signed an Labour, local democratic accountability in the NHS e-petition calling on the Government to drop the Bill, was reduced by the abolition, without consultation, of so may I remind the Secretary of State that his own the community health councils. The letter refers to the party’s election manifesto stated that creation of the health and wellbeing boards, which will increase local democratic accountability for the health “any petition that secures 100,000 signatures will be eligible for service. Will the Secretary of State explain how that will formal debate”? ensure that local services in the health service better fit Does he not think that it is time for us to have a full local health needs? debate about the issue, to find out who is in favour and who is against and to drop the Bill? Mr Lansley: That is a very powerful and positive step forward. Through the joint strategic needs assessment Mr Lansley: The hon. Gentleman, himself, was present and the strategy derived from that, local authorities and at 40 sittings in Committee, during which his hon. the NHS will now increasingly work together to deliver Friend the Member for Halton (Derek Twigg), the integrated services extending across health, social care shadow spokesman, said that the Bill had been thoroughly and public health. scrutinised. We have debated it; in another place they continue to debate it very fully and very constructively; Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): and I believe that that will deliver us the right Bill for Will the Secretary of State please confirm whether all the NHS. the changes outlined in the Deputy Prime Minister’s letter now represent Government policy? Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): Will my right hon. Friend confirm that this Bill is Mr Lansley: The Deputy Prime Minister’s letter superb news for patients, and that under the Secretary accurately reflects the discussions that we have been of State’s new Bill, my constituent who requires less having in another place—[Interruption] I do not see invasive hip treatment in a neighbouring county will be why that is funny; it is very simple—in anticipation of able to choose to go to that other provider for a less the amendments that will be debated there on Report. expensive operation that will do him less harm and more good? Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con): The previous Labour Government, of whom the shadow Secretary of State Mr Lansley: Yes, indeed. For the first time, not just for Health was an active member, negotiated private through the legislation but through the modernisation finance initiative contracts that are costing the NHS of the national health service, patients will be able to almost £3,000 per minute. Will the Secretary of State see, through the data, the quality of the service provided detail what his Department and the Treasury are doing in the NHS by a range of providers. When patients are to help to alleviate this enormous level of debt, which asked whether they want—on that basis, as NHS patients has risked the viability of some NHS services? with a free service based on their need—to be able to choose who should provide them with care, 81% say Mr Lansley: We are helping all trusts with PFI contracts that they want that choice. We will give them that to manage the costs of those contracts. Seven trusts choice; Labour would not. were left with unsustainable PFI contracts, and we have 161 Health and Social Care Bill28 FEBRUARY 2012 Health and Social Care Bill 162

[Mr Lansley] competition into the NHS. We are not. The Bill does not introduce competition to or extend competition made it clear that we are willing to help support them. within the NHS. The legal advice disclosed in one of Labour Members—they are not even listening—are today’s national newspapers makes it clear that the distorting the nature of this legislation, which does not previous Labour Government introduced the reach of permit privatisation. Given that during their time in competition law into the NHS by introducing the elective office they left the NHS with 102 hospital projects choice programme in 2006. owned, in effect, by the private sector, with a PFI debt of £67 billion, it is outrageous for them to sit there Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): If pointing fingers at us. the Health Secretary believes so much in the value of his Bill, why did he not take the time to explain it to Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): If this is voters before the general election, instead of promising such a marvellous measure that protects the NHS, as that there would be no top-down reorganisation of the the Secretary of State has been saying, why is it opposed NHS? by virtually all those in the medical profession and by most of the public, to the extent that he has become Mr Lansley: I refer the hon. Lady to pages 46 and almost a hate figure? Is it because he lacks persuasiveness 47 of the Conservative party manifesto and, to understand or because this is a worthless Bill that will undermine the Bill fully, to the Liberal Democrat manifesto. the NHS? David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): I encourage my Mr Lansley: The hon. Gentleman should go and talk right hon. Friend to read the minutes of the Hinckley to the clinical commissioning groups across the country and Bosworth health and wellbeing partnership meeting. that are delivering on the clinical leadership that will He will see that clinical commissioning groups are in modernise and improve the NHS rather than simply place and that there is a priority on early intervention. sitting reading the newspapers and imagining that he There is support for the health and wellbeing board and knows what is going on in the NHS. its priorities. Does that not go completely against what we are hearing from Opposition Members? Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend agree that when she was in government, Baroness Mr Lansley: I had the pleasure—before Christmas, I Williams was one of the chief architects of ruining the think—of meeting the local authority, the director of state education system in this country? Given that, why public health and the three clinical commissioning groups would a Conservative-dominated Government wish to from across Leicestershire, who are all enthusiastic about dance to her tune? the opportunities presented by the modernisation of the NHS legislation. Mr Lansley: My right hon. and noble Friend Baroness Williams is now a member of the Liberal Democrat Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): Is it not party, and in that respect I am not aware that she has clear to even this Secretary of State that the Bill is now a ever transgressed in government. dog’s breakfast? Given that doctors, nurses, the public, the Lords and many Government Members oppose the Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): Bill, what mandate does he have for such a radical Last year, when the Bill was in its infancy, the Minister change of the NHS? of State, Department of Health, the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), gave me an assurance that Mr Lansley: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the point I NHS services in Trafford undergoing changes would made about the mandate. Beyond the mandate, staff not be privatised. In the light of all the amendments, is across the NHS have been clear for years that they want the Secretary of State able to offer me the same assurance, more clinical leadership and clinically led commissioning; especially given that the Co-operation and Competition they want local authorities to integrate health and Panel in his Department has instructed the local NHS social care services more effectively; and they support to devise a contract that is divided into six separate lots, the transfer of leadership in health improvement into with a warning that competition must be prosecuted, the hands of local authorities. The Bill achieves those otherwise there will be severe consequences? principles. That is why all through last year, the Royal College of Nursing told me that it supported the Bill. Mr Lansley: I can give the right hon. Gentleman the same reassurance that the Minister of State gave. Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con): The Secretary of State is not the only one who has noticed a Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con): Will my right shift in the Opposition’s stance on independent sector hon. Friend confirm that the previous Government provision. I have started to receive letters from constituents were, in 2006, given the advice that it was neither who are concerned that Labour will next call for much-loved possible nor desirable to ensure that competition was NHS services that are currently provided by the independent not allowed in the NHS because it is subject to EU and charitable sectors to be shut down. Will he assure competition rules? me that if those calls are made, he will fight them?

Mr Lansley: I am glad that my hon. Friend has made Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes an important that important point. People such as the former Chair point about what would happen if we followed the of the Select Committee on Health, the right hon. Member apparent views of the Labour party. More than 11% of for Rother Valley (Mr Barron), who is no longer in his mental health services in this country are provided by place, are fond of asking why we are introducing the private and charitable sectors. Recently, I was in 163 Health and Social Care Bill28 FEBRUARY 2012 Health and Social Care Bill 164

Northampton, where St Andrew’s Healthcare provides are providing clinical leadership in south Devon and important services. I opened its new building, which Torbay to be absolutely clear that the Bill is right to give will provide first-rate, state-of-the-art care for mental them that responsibility and that they will use it extremely health patients. The attitude of the Labour party is that well. all that should be shut down. Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ (Lab): If the Deputy Prime Minister’s letter agreed with Co-op): Up and down the country, thousands of NHS the Secretary of State, as the Secretary of State has staff have already been laid off—so much for no top-down confirmed today, can he explain why the Minister of reorganisation—and many of them are being re-employed State, Department of Health, the right hon. Member at vast expense. When will the Secretary of State publish for Chelmsford, said on Radio 4 yesterday that there the costs to date, before the Bill is even law, of this would be no further changes to the Government’s Bill? overarching reorganisation? Mr Lansley: My right hon. Friend and I are very Mr Lansley: I do not know whether the hon. Lady clear that, as I explained—really quite carefully, I has read the latest monthly data on the NHS work thought—it is customary in another place for some of force, but since the election the number of non-clinical the issues that have been debated to be reflected in staff has gone down by 15,000, including the number of amendments on Report, and that is what will happen. managers by 5,800, and the number of clinical staff has risen, including more than 4,500 more doctors. Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): Can the Secretary of State confirm that the principles underpinning the Bill Several hon. Members rose— are that the NHS is and will remain free for all patients; that a person’s GP knows them and their needs best; Mr Speaker: Order. I would like to accommodate a and that although we are spending billions of pounds few more questions, but from now on I really do require more than Labour would have done, every pound needs single-sentence questions without preamble and comparably to work as hard as possible if the NHS is to be modern pithy replies. and provide care for the future?

Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): My constituency has Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend is right, not least on his considerable health inequalities, so I very much welcome point that the coalition Government are investing in the the fact that tackling health inequalities is at the heart NHS, with real-terms increases each year. That contrasts of the Bill. Does the Secretary of State share my surprise with the Labour Government in Wales, who in the that the Opposition do not similarly welcome that? course of this Parliament intend to reduce spending on the NHS by more than 6% in real terms. Mr Lansley: I have to tell my hon. Friend that nothing much about the Opposition surprises me any more. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): At a very lively Conservative away-day last Friday, a document was Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): Will the issued that stated: Secretary of State now accept that, contrary to the “If we changed or altered the bill now, we would end up in a no impression he is trying to create, the opposition to his man’s land, and chaos.” muddled bill is not some plot by health workers or trade Four days later, can the Secretary of State confirm the unions with vested interests, but is coming from many Government’s position? Liberal Democrats, the majority of the British public and almost the entire health community, to whom his Mr Lansley: The Government’s position is that there Government promised to listen? has been very constructive debate in Committee in the Lords, and I look forward to that being reflected in Mr Lansley: Opposition Members distort what is in equally constructive debates on Report. the Bill and tell their constituents that it is something other than what it is, and then they come to the House Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): Liberal Democrats and say, “Oh, it’s muddled.” It is not muddled at all; it is hate Labour’s health reforms, which result in hospitals they who are muddled. being paid for operations whether they happen or not. Does the Secretary of State consider that the NHS, for Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): I do not know which he remains responsible, would be in better health any GPs who want to see inappropriate use of the had Labour’s reforms been subjected to the parliamentary private sector. They will be doing the commissioning scrutiny that his have? and the public will be able to see what they are doing. Should we not let them get on with it? Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. Many of the issues that have been the subject Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I was of some of the most heated debate on the Bill have been very pleased to hear what was said by Dr Sam Barwell—I raised because Labour never addressed them. He is think her name is Barwell. absolutely right that one result will be that in future, it will no longer be possible for £250 million to be paid to Dr Wollaston: Barrell. the private sector for operations that never take place.

Mr Lansley: Barrell. One had only to listen to how Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): Can the Secretary Dr Sam Barrell and her colleagues in the Baywide clinical of State explain why he is prepared to get into further commissioning group in my hon. Friend’s constituency discussions with the Liberal Democrats to help them to 165 Health and Social Care Bill28 FEBRUARY 2012 Health and Social Care Bill 166

[Helen Jones] Mr Lansley: I think opposition changed his mind. save seats in May, but not to do so with doctors, nurses Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): The Secretary and midwives, who all oppose the Bill? Is he engaged in of State said this afternoon that competition will not be patching up the coalition rather than in providing proper allowed to get in the way of sensible integration of health care? services, so why is Trafford Healthcare proceeding with the commissioning of provider services in six penny Mr Lansley: I think I made that perfectly clear not packets, as described by my right hon. Friend the Member only in the course of the initial consultation on the for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul Goggins)? How White Paper, but then through the NHS Future Forum. can that support the sensible integration of services? Many thousands of NHS staff contributed their views to the NHS Future Forum, which made many Mr Lansley: The hon. Lady must be aware that under recommendations and we accepted them all. the Bill, we will move from primary care trusts that, under current public procurement rules, are very often Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con): Is it not the case not capable of integrating services as they would want, that the text of the letter merely reflects the Government’s to clinical commissioning groups, which will have the amendments on Lords Report? The Opposition really freedom and power to do so. should have done their homework, because it has been on the website since 1 February. They are four weeks Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): Will out of date. my right hon. Friend confirm that clauses 22 and 25 of the Bill remain, which for the first time ever put a duty Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend is right up to a point. on the Government to deal with health inequality. On Report in the other House, amendments reflecting the debate in Committee will be tabled. They might not Mr Lansley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. That is all be Government amendments, but I am looking indeed true, and it gives the lie, if you will forgive me, forward to constructive amendments. As I have said, if Mr Speaker, not to anybody in the House, but to those amendments from Liberal Democrat or indeed Labour who would represent the legislation as having the effect peers are constructive and will help to improve the Bill, of widening health inequalities. Health inequalities widened we will accept them. under the Labour Government. For the first time, our legislation will place on all NHS bodies and the Secretary Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): of State a duty to tackle and reduce health inequalities. Will the Secretary of State clarify whether the changes are significant, as stated by the Deputy Prime Minister, Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab): The or merely reassurance, as stated by the Prime Minister’s Secretary of State will know that Tower Hamlets clinical official spokesperson? commissioning group in my constituency has decided Mr Lansley: The amendments on Report that we will today to ask the Government to drop the Bill, citing the support will, by their nature, be significant. bureaucracy it will generate as a key reason. When the structures he has established to advise him tell him that Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): Will my right they want no part in the nightmare that he is creating, is hon. Friend assure my constituents that our NHS reforms it not time to think again and drop the Bill? will outlaw the practice common under the previous Government of the private sector being paid more than Mr Lansley: I have been to Sam Everington’s practice the NHS for exactly the same operation? in Bromley-by-Bow, which has been gearing itself up. It will use the powers in the Bill and will do so very Mr Lansley: Yes, that is absolutely correct. For the effectively. first time, we will have a provision in law that prevents the kind of discrimination in favour of the private sector Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): that was practised in government by the Labour party. Foundation trusts will be given the freedom to increase private services and patients will have the right to choose Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): In an article in The any provider that meets NHS standards. Was the Secretary Guardian on 13 February, Baroness Williams said: of State as surprised as I was to learn that that was in “The way out of this mess is not hard to find… What that the Labour party’s 2010 manifesto? would mean for the bill would be dropping the chapter on competition”. Mr Lansley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I Will the Secretary of State clarify whether he is willing suppose that we should not be surprised that the Labour to accept such an amendment from Baroness Williams? party in opposition has abandoned everything it said in government, but for it to abandon so quickly so many Mr Lansley: As I understand it, I have come to the of the things it said even in its manifesto is pretty House to answer questions about a letter, jointly signed dramatic. by the Deputy Prime Minister and Baroness Shirley Williams, which does not say that. Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): If I may say so, I think that the Secretary of State and the Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): In 2007, when Government have been at sixes and sevens over this he was Secretary of State, the shadow Secretary of State issue in recent weeks and they would be better off waxed eloquent, saying that he celebrated the private dropping this disastrous Bill. However, may I press the sector in the NHS. Has my right hon. Friend any clue to right hon. Gentleman on the answer he gave to my hon. what changed the right hon. Gentleman’s mind? Friend the Member for Dunfermline and West Fife 167 Health and Social Care Bill28 FEBRUARY 2012 Health and Social Care Bill 168

(Thomas Docherty)? If he now agrees that the amendments improve services for patients; there are patients who are significant, as the Deputy Prime Minister has boasted, realise that they will get additional voice and choice; does that mean that the Prime Minister’s spokesperson and there are local authorities that realise that, through was wrong to downplay them as a mere reassurance? their health and well-being boards, they can use this to drive improvements in health for their population. Those Mr Lansley: I am clear that sometimes we need to are the things that are changing. Unfortunately, not ensure through amendments that we not only achieve only is the Labour party not changing but it is going the effect that we intend, but reinforce it in legislation. backwards. Some of them will reassure, and some will have significant effects directly on the governance of the NHS. Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): I listened carefully to the Secretary of State’s answer to Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): To avoid the my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles continuation of the erroneous—that is the word, I South (Barbara Keeley), but it struck me as gobbledegook. think—statements from the Opposition, will my right Will he spell out in plain English the additional safeguards hon. Friend confirm that the GP survey continually to the private income cap that the Deputy Prime Minister referred to was filled in and returned by about 6% of is seeking to ensure that foundation trusts cannot focus GPs only, and therefore is not reflective of the views of on private profit before patients? GPs across the country, such as those at HealthEast, who are keen to get on with commissioning quality Mr Lansley: The hon. Lady will have to look at the health care for their patients? amendments tabled in the other place tomorrow.

Mr Lansley: Yes, I have the benefit, as do many of my Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): Will my right hon. colleagues on the Government Benches, of talking to Friend detail for the House how the Bill will help to GPs across the country, individually and in clinical improve patient safety and quality of care, which are so commissioning groups. The issue to address is not the important to my constituents and those of everybody in distortion of legislation and its effects but realising the House? benefits for patients. That is where we are. We want to achieve and improve quality for patients. That is where Mr Lansley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, because GPs are, where nurses are and where doctors and health there are a number of ways in which I think this issue professionals are. The legislation is part of the broader will be important. First, for the first time, how we process of devolving responsibility to them and patients improve patient safety will be published in a consistent to allow that to happen. way, as one of the five domains of the outcomes framework. Secondly, that will be demonstrated by achievement—for Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): What is example, we have the lowest ever levels of methicillin- the Secretary of State most worried about: the frightening resistant Staphylococcus aureus and clostridium difficile chaos of the £1 billion commissioning underpinning the infection. Thirdly, the NHS Commissioning Board, which reforms that will benefit Circle health care, United will be established under the legislation, will take national Health, PricewaterhouseCoopers, KPMG, McKinsey responsibility for the delivery of patient safety, linking and the rest at the expense of patients; or the personal it directly to commissioning, whereas in the past the embarrassment that he would feel if he did what he National Patient Safety Agency was an organisation on should do—if he listened to the professionals and the its own and was not directly linked to the exercise of thousands of people who have signed the e-petition—and commissioning responsibility. dropped the Bill? Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): In Chester, Mr Lansley: I will tell the hon. Lady what most we are seeing the effects of tens of thousands of patients frightens me: it is that if we had carried on the inheritance fleeing the NHS in Wales to seek better treatment in from Labour, with waste and bureaucracy escalating England. Will my right hon. Friend reassure my constituents and a year-on-year reduction in productivity in the that there is nothing in the Bill that will cause the NHS, in a financially challenged environment the quality English NHS to be as bad as what we see over the of patient care would have suffered. At the moment, we border in north Wales? have an NHS that is doing magnificently well at raising performance across the service while transforming itself Mr Lansley: Not only are the Labour Government in to meet future challenges. Wales cutting the budget of the NHS, where we are increasing it, but the situation is as my hon. Friend Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con): This describes, with 91.6% of patients in England being seen feels like groundhog day—nothing ever seems to change. and treated within 18 weeks, whereas in Wales the Every time the Labour party brings this issue to the comparable figure is just 68%. House, we hear the same statements, questions and scaremongering. Does the Secretary of State agree that Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): This urgent we hear nothing new from the Labour party? All we question has been very much a repeat of last Wednesday’s hear is the same scaremongering—nothing new, no new lengthy debate. Does my right hon. Friend agree that thinking. the last 50 or so minutes has been more about spiteful politics than about policy and patient care? Mr Lansley: I bring good news to my hon. Friend. Out there in the real world, things are changing: there Mr Lansley: I agree with my hon. Friend, but fortunately are clinicians, doctors and nurses across the country this urgent question has given me another opportunity who are taking the opportunity of this responsibility to to remind everybody in this House and beyond that this 169 Health and Social Care Bill 28 FEBRUARY 2012 170

[Mr Lansley] Treaty on Stability, Co-ordination and Governance Government’s purpose is to empower patients, get front-line doctors and nurses in charge in the NHS, cut our tiers Application for emergency debate (Standing Order of bureaucracy and improve the quality of care for No. 24) patients. 4.22 pm Mr Speaker: I thank colleagues for their succinctness, Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): I seek leave to which enabled 53 Back Benchers to question the Secretary debate a specific and important matter that should have of State in 42 minutes of exclusively Back-Bench time. I urgent consideration, namely the legal and other action am indebted to the House. now to be taken by Her Majesty’s Government in Under the terms of Standing Order No. 24, I now call upholding the rule of law and protecting UK interests Mr William Cash to make an application for leave to in respect of the nature and content of the treaty on propose a debate on a specific and important matter. As stability, co-ordination and governance in the economic I am sure the hon. Gentleman will know, he has three and monetary union. In my remarks I shall refer to it as minutes in which to make such an application. “the treaty”. This is not an EU treaty. The fifth draft was made available only immediately before the last European Council. It confers functions on EU institutions, including the European Commission and the European Court of Justice. The importance of this matter is that the treaty—a non-EU treaty—is between only 25 of the 27 EU member states, the Prime Minister having exercised the veto. However, the treaty makes use of certain institutions of the EU, in particular the European Commission and the European Court of Justice. The United Kingdom Government have expressed grave reservations about the legality of the arrangements, as demonstrated by the recent letter from the UK ambassador to the EU, Sir Jon Cunliffe, to the secretary-general of the European Council, which has been placed in the Library. Concerns expressed by pre-eminent lawyers about the treaty include concerns about breaches of European and other aspects of the rule of law, both in principle and by reference to specific articles of the treaty. The urgency of the matter arises from the fact that there is a European Council meeting on Thursday 1 March, which the Prime Minister will attend. The question of the legality of the treaty and whether the Government intend to take the issue to the European Court of Justice is a matter of great urgency, given that other member states and their Parliaments, such as the Bundestag yesterday, are deciding the issues and the ratification of the treaty. In respect of the United Kingdom, there are legitimate concerns about the legality of the conferral under the treaty of those functions on the European Commission and the European Court of Justice, which are institutions of the EU. The European Scrutiny Committee is taking evidence on the treaty. Last Thursday at business questions, the Leader of the House declined the request I made as Chairman of the European Scrutiny Committee to allow a debate in Government time on the Floor of the House. We are holding an inquiry into the treaty and its legality. The Foreign Secretary has twice declined the unanimous request of the European Scrutiny Committee to appear before the Committee in reasonable time, although the Minister for Europe did give evidence last Thursday. It is essential that the United Kingdom Parliament, on behalf of the voters of the UK who are affected by the treaty proposals and the Government’s decision on the question of legality, debates this subject as a matter of urgency. My proposal is supported by many Members of Parliament. I suggest that the Attorney-General attend the debate. I would of course be grateful for the 171 Treaty on Stability, Co-ordination and 28 FEBRUARY 2012 172 Governance support of the House for my proposal for an emergency Eradication of Slavery (UK Company debate to be held before the European Council, which Supply Chains) takes place on Thursday this week. Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman asks leave to propose No. 23) a debate on a specific and important matter—

Several hon. Members rose— 4.27 pm

Mr Speaker: Members may sit at this stage. They are Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): I beg to move, ahead of themselves, but we are grateful to them. They That leave be given to bring in a Bill to require retailers and are not backward in coming forward. manufacturers in the UK to make annual statements of measures taken by them to eradicate slavery and human trafficking and The hon. Gentleman asks leave to propose a debate exploitation from their direct supply chains; to require large on a specific and important matter that should have retailers and manufacturers to provide customers with information urgent consideration—namely, legal and other action about measures taken by them to eliminate slavery and human now to be taken by Her Majesty’s Government in trafficking and exploitation; to provide victims of slavery with upholding the rule of law and protecting United Kingdom necessary protections and rights; and for connected purposes. interests in respect of the nature and content of the This House is rightly proud of its contribution to the treaty on stability, co-ordination and governance in the abolition of the transatlantic slave trade 200 years ago, economic and monetary union. but a lesson that we need to learn is that we cannot be I have listened carefully to the application from the hon. complacent. It is shocking that in the last quarter of a Gentleman, and I am satisfied that the matter that he century the existence of modern forms of slavery has has raised is proper to be discussed under Standing actually grown. From child labourers on west African Order No. 24. Has the hon. Gentleman the leave of the cocoa farms to Chinese prisoners being exported to the House? Maldives to build infrastructure projects, slavery is thriving Application agreed to. around the world. As consumers, we enjoy the cheap products that forced labour has helped to deliver. The Mr Speaker: Members will be pleased to know that aim of my Bill, which is modelled on legislation already there is no requirement for me to count them, although in force in California, is to ensure that consumers know I hope that I would be capable of so doing, as no when forced labour has been used to make a product objection has been voiced. The hon. Gentleman has that they buy. Armed with that knowledge, they might obtained the leave of the House. The debate will be held well choose an alternative. tomorrow, Wednesday 29 February, as the first item of The Bill would require large UK manufacturers and public business. It will last for three hours and will arise retailers to report on the following issues in their annual on a motion that the House has considered the specified reports and on their websites. They would have to matter set out in the hon. Gentleman’s application. report on how they verified product supply chains to evaluate and address the risks of human trafficking and slave labour. They would have to describe the audits that they conducted to ensure that suppliers adhered to company standards. They would need to certify, through direct suppliers, that the materials used to make a product were from countries that did not engage in slavery and human trafficking and that complied with anti-trafficking laws. They would have to describe their procedures to ensure that employees and contractors maintained company standards on human trafficking and slavery, and the training on human trafficking that was provided to personnel working in supply chain management, focusing on where the risk was greatest. In addition, my Bill would place a duty on a company that uncovered trafficking or slavery within its supply chain to provide remediation to victims. This could include education for children, or refuge or payment to adult victims. Clearly, such a range of responsibilities would be a burden on a smaller company, so the reporting requirements of the Bill would apply only to companies that generated sales worldwide of at least £500 million. That stretches from such companies as Ocado to Tesco via brands such as L’Oréal and Imperial Tobacco, and it excludes smaller companies. The burden is not fundamentally a regulatory one; it is a responsibility to report. My belief is that, confronted with knowledge of such a practice within their supply chain, most successful companies would want to drive it out. Customers would also want to choose slavery-free products. 173 Eradication of Slavery (UK Company 28 FEBRUARY 2012 Eradication of Slavery (UK Company 174 Supply Chains) Supply Chains) [Fiona Mactaggart] this summer. I gather from its competitors Nestlé that KitKat is also being certified by UTZ. So what do I mean by slavery and trafficking? In John Lewis Partnership is an example of a retail 1930, the International Labour Organisation convention company that is acting. It has explicit requirements in concerning forced and compulsory labour defined slavery its suppliers’ code of practice, which is available on its in a way that included website, to prevent the employment of children and the “all work or service which is exacted from any person under the use of forced labour. Many smaller UK companies that menace of any penalty and for which the said person has not supply large companies based in California are already offered himself voluntarily.” being required to report as part of their supply chain This century, the UN protocol on trafficking in persons audit. defines trafficking as Not all the Bill’s sponsors, who include 11 Members from six different parties, will share my concern about “the recruitment…(etc) of persons, by means of the threat or use of force or other forms of coercion…(etc) to achieve the consent abuse of the process whereby unemployed people can of a person having control over another person, for the purpose of get work experience in retail stores here in Britain. This exploitation. Exploitation shall include, at a minimum, the exploitation can be a great chance to learn about the world of work, of the prostitution of others or other forms of sexual exploitation, but in some cases in my constituency, people have forced labour or services, slavery or practices similar to slavery, received no training, have been used to substitute for servitude or the removal of organs…Most simply, slavery covers paid labour and face withdrawal of benefits if they anyone who is forced to work without pay, being economically discontinue the placement after the first week. The Bill exploited and unable to walk away.” was not designed to address that problem. Indeed, when It is an archaic and demeaning practice, yet as the I conceived it, I thought its application to UK-based campaign group Slavery Footprint, which can provide companies would not extend beyond parts of the agriculture people with a phone app to count how many slaves are and food industries that were already regulated by the working for them, points out, people are made vulnerable Gangmasters Licensing Authority. However, if we are to this kind of exploitation by high rates of unemployment, not vigilant, exploitation will not be confined to the poverty, crime, discrimination, corruption, political conflict poorer countries where it thrives most. In enabling or cultural acceptance of practices. public information to be provided, the Bill aims to use If we all agree that slavery and trafficking are wrong, the power of the purchaser to prevent slavery and why has more not been done? I want to recognise that exploitation. some companies have done good work to eliminate I hope that by raising the issue and debating it, we slavery. Let us take chocolate, for instance. In 2001, the shall accelerate progress towards the eradication of global cocoa industry committed to ending child trafficking slavery from the supply chains of every major UK in its supply chains through the US-based Harkin-Engel company before the decade is out. protocol, but it worked too slowly. By 2009, it was Question put and agreed to. estimated that there were still more than 1.8 million Ordered, children working in the cocoa industry, many of them That Fiona Mactaggart, Mr Richard Bacon, Hugh trafficked. Bayley, Tom Brake, Michael Connarty, Mark Durkan, Progress is now being made. As the MP representing Jane Ellison, Dr Julian Lewis, Caroline Lucas, Siobhain Mars chocolate factory in Slough, I am proud to say McDonagh, Jim Shannon and Jim Sheridan present the that in 2009 it committed to certify independently its Bill. entire cocoa supply by 2020. Mars launched the first Fiona Mactaggart accordingly presented the Bill. Rainforest Alliance-certified chocolate bar in the UK Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on —Galaxy—in 2010, and will go Fairtrade with Maltesers Friday 23 March, and to be printed (Bill 311). 175 28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 176

Estimates Day The cut in the bus subsidy scheme was larger than the 11% cut in capital spending. The situation has changed a little following the autumn statement, with some extra [5TH ALLOTTED DAY] money provided for capital projects The fact that most of the Department’s budget is spent by external agencies, specifically Network Rail, VOTE ON ACCOUNT 2012-13 Transport for London and local authorities, makes it more difficult for the Department to have detailed control over those areas. However, the Department was DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT generally regarded as having emerged relatively well from the spending review, despite the significant cut in Transport and the Economy its budget. I welcome the Government’s statement that they believe that spending on transport infrastructure [Relevant Documents: The Third Report from the Transport can help to boost the economy. Committee, on Transport and the Economy, HC 473, and It is important to recognise that congestion on the the Government response, HC 962; and the Fifteenth road, rail and air networks remains a major constraint Report from the Transport Committee, on Counting the on connectivity and growth. There is clear evidence that cost: financial scrutiny of the Department for Transport relieving congestion by providing new capacity helps to 2011-12, HC 1560.] increase productivity and promotes economic development. Motion made, and Question proposed, It is also important to note that congestion is not the That, for the year ending with 31 March 2013, for expenditure only indication of the need for transport investment, by the Department for Transport— particularly where regeneration is required and disparities (1) resources, not exceeding £3,413,771,000, be authorised, on are evident. account, for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1756, The last major Government study of the relationship (2) resources, not exceeding £3,478,411,000, be authorised, on between transport and economic growth was the Eddington account, for use for capital purposes as so set out, and report, commissioned by the previous Administration. (3) a sum, not exceeding £5,850,719,000, be granted to Her It showed that transport is necessary for economic Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated growth, but of itself is not sufficient. To be effective, Fund, on account, and applied for expenditure on the use of resources authorised by Parliament.—(Mr Francois.) transport and economic development must go hand in hand. Building transport links to Canary Wharf regenerated the area because that was linked with an economic strategy. 4.36 pm It is not clear that the Government appreciate the Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): significance of this point made strongly in our report. I am pleased to have the opportunity to launch a debate Our report expressed concern that the abolition of on two reports from the Transport Committee about regional structures may lead to the absence of economic expenditure by the Department for Transport. The first, development strategies required to maximise the potential “Transport and the Economy”, considered how spending of transport investment across local authority boundaries on transport could boost economic growth, and was as well as making it more difficult to prioritise transport published last March. The second, “Counting the cost”, projects of wider significance. The Department has was published only last week. That report follows up encouraged the local enterprise partnerships to fill that important aspects of our earlier work and comments on gap and it is now suggesting that transport funding changes to departmental expenditure plans, particularly could be devolved to groups of local authorities and the new transport projects announced by the Chancellor LEPs. How will this work in practice, however? This of the Exchequer in the autumn. new approach to regional planning might work well in I should begin by putting the Department’s expenditure some areas but could struggle to take off in others, and into context. In 2010-11 the Department’s budget was there will be parts of the country which lack a strong £12.8 billion, which was split between capital projects voice or which fall between two strong regional centres and ongoing resources spending. As a result of the and are overlooked by both. spending review, that budget was due to decrease by The Department did not identify the issues it is 15% in real terms by 2015. Resource spending, covering seeking to tackle through its spending on transport. For items such as local authority grants and the bus service example, the Government state that they want to “rebalance operators’ grant bus subsidy scheme, was cut by 21%. the economy”. That can mean a number of different policies, perhaps including more private sector employment, Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): I congratulate my hon. reducing disparities between regions, or reducing reliance Friend. During the last two or three months, I have on the banking sector and encouraging manufacturing. observed an increasing number of complaints from How are the decisions on transport spending related to constituents whose bus services are being cut in Runcorn these objectives and what assessment takes place to identify and Widnes. Has the Committee made any assessment which transport modes are most appropriate to deliver of the wider impact on bus services throughout the them? How is the balance of spending between road country? and rail determined? Has any assessment been made of the significance of the absence of an aviation policy on Mrs Ellman: The Committee investigated the impact economic activity generated by international connectivity? of spending cuts on bus services, and found that cuts The answers to those questions are not clear. That is had been made in more than 70% of transport authorities. because the Department does not have an explicit transport My hon. Friend may be interested to know that it is strategy and lacks a coherent framework for deciding currently re-examining the issue. which transport schemes to prioritise. 177 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 178

[Mrs Ellman] David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): The hon. Lady raises an important point about the discrepancy I must note, however, that some progress is being in the level of spend in London and the south-east, made. Rail and aviation policy papers are due very soon which occurred under the previous Government, as the and the Committee is looking forward to scrutinising Select Committee report made clear, and is apparently them. There has been an important review of the Highways continuing under this Government, as the IPPR figures Agency, a national policy statement regarding ports has that she cited made clear. Did she and her Committee been agreed, and a policy statement for national networks consider why the methodology by which transportation is awaited. Will the Minister assure us that we will soon schemes are assessed continues to drive an answer that see a Government strategy for transport? That is greatly skews the cash so much towards one small part of our needed and has been long awaited. country? The Committee considered the appraisal that is undertaken of transport projects. There is sometimes Mrs Ellman: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his too much focus on cost-benefit analysis: not all the comments. The imbalance to which he refers dates back costs and benefits of a project can be monetised. For many years and decades, spanning many Governments. example, the wider economic benefits of a project or its The Committee did examine the issue and has stated, in environmental impacts are often excluded. It is also recognition of it, that congestion should not be the often forgotten that the economic appraisal is just one only factor taken into account when deciding where aspect of a more complex appraisal process based on investment should be made. The importance of economic five areas, including strategic fit and project affordability. development and the potential of transport investment Unless an overall strategy is identified, it is not possible in relation to that should be recognised too. The Committee to assess the strategic fit of any individual investment. made a specific recommendation on this in its most Greater transparency in decision making is important. recent report, stating that the Department should No doubt we will debate High Speed 2 in more detail on publish an annual analysis of its “regional spend” and another occasion, but it is notable that although a huge publish information about the “regional impact” of its amount of material about the project has been published, announcements. no information about how it is to be financed has been More clarity is required on the information published made public. generally by the Department about its spending decisions. When the Department’s budget was cut after the 2010 In respect of smaller schemes, there is often very little election, details of which specific items of expenditure published information about the strategic fit or how were reduced were not published until a parliamentary they are to be funded. The new projects announced in question was tabled requesting that information. The the autumn statement seem to have been funded on the Transport Committee also discovered that the Department basis that they were ready to proceed. It is unclear had underspent on its 2010-11 budget to the tune of whether they are necessarily the investments that offer £1 billion and had returned £500 million to the Treasury. the best value for money or that will meet transport The underspend was far greater than the budget cut objectives. The Department contributes significantly to made during the year and it was larger than the cuts to two cross-departmental funds—the regional growth fund bus subsidies, which have caused so many difficulties to and the growing places fund—but no information is bus users across the country. Funding made available available on where the Department’s financial contributions for transport should be used for transport and should have been invested or to what effect. not be returned to the Treasury. I hope that we will all Strategic fit should include consideration of how a be able to have more confidence in the Department’s scheme contributes to rebalancing the economy. The budgeting in the future. major investment that has taken place in transport Most rail projects are agreed as part of a five-yearly infrastructure in London and the south-east is clearly control period process. We are currently waiting for the necessary, but transport investment across the UK is Government to set out schemes they would like Network required. Interestingly, £15 billion will be invested in Rail to take forward during the 2014 to 2019 period, Crossrail, about £5 billion of it directly from Government and to identify the funds that will be available. This funds, and £5.5 billion will be invested in Thameslink, approach has helped to protect rail from indiscriminate while a reappraisal is taking place on whether half a budget cuts at the time of the spending review. The billion pounds should be invested in The Northern Chancellor’s autumn statement included support for Way, improving rail services right across the north. some rail schemes, such as the new Oxford to Bedford The new transport spending announced in the autumn line. The Committee has asked the Minister to make it statement is welcome, but the analysis of the regional clear whether those schemes are additional to the projects breakdown published by the Institute for Public Policy that will be announced as part of the normal funding Research North raises concerns. It found that 84% of process or are simply being brought forward for slightly planned new infrastructure spending would be in London earlier implementation. There is a need for much more and the south-east, compared with just 6% in northern clarity when announcements are made on whether the England. That works out at an average spend per head schemes are genuinely additional to those that have of £2,731 in London compared with just £5 in the already been agreed or whether they are agreed schemes north-east. The Passenger Transport Executive Group being brought forward at an earlier date. has produced similar information showing that transport The National Audit Office has recently suggested spending is more than twice as much per head in that the Government should have a mechanism to reopen London and the south-east than it is in Yorkshire and control period settlements in order to have more flexibility Humberside, the west midlands and the north-east. to make cuts, if necessary. I oppose that suggestion. The That imbalance is a matter of concern. arrangements for rail have helped to provide a relatively 179 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 180 transparent and stable way of investing, which is necessarily By the time the report had been published, however, the medium and long-term, but would be undermined if Government had already set out those things through the Department could reopen earlier settlements. their transport business case. They have also set out The recent strategic review of the Highways Authority quite clearly in their business plan some of their objectives has recommended that a similar five-yearly funding for transport spending, as well as a vision for a transport settlement for road projects should be introduced, and system that is an engine for economic growth, and they it has been suggested that that could lead to a more have attempted to provide a greener, cleaner and fairer efficient procurement and supply chain, delivering significant solution for our communities. savings. That is an interesting suggestion that I am sure Moreover, during the previous Government’s period my Committee will want to examine in due course. in office, many of us on both sides of the House Government expenditure is essential to political decisions, recognised that the formula that the Department for particularly during a time of austerity. The Transport Transport was using to analyse a number of its schemes Committee will continue to focus on financial issues beyond the basic benefit-cost ratio, NATA—the new and has specific plans to examine the cost of the railway approach to appraisal—had a number of deficiencies. when the Government’s response to the McNulty report We should recognise that the Government have set out a is finally published. I look forward to hearing hon. more embracing framework for analysing infrastructure Members’ views today and urge the Minister to support spending. Clearly, there are the four areas to consider: our key recommendations. the economic case; whether there is commercial viability; whether a scheme is financially affordable; and, perhaps most importantly, whether a scheme is achievable. That 4.51 pm sort of framework, beyond what was previously in Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): It is a great place, should provide a greater degree of rigour, for honour to follow the Chair of the Select Committee, the there is now more than one test. There are not only the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman). tests in NATA or the benefit-cost ratio but a number of tests which, added together, will give a transparent and I want to comment principally on the “Transport and more rigorous approach to the analysis of economic the Economy” report. The report recognises, of course, transport investment. I hope that such an approach will that for many years transport was like Cinderella, as it stay in place for some time, because one of the problems rarely came to the fore and was not regarded as one of with transport investment has been that for an awfully the key parts of Government policy. That was true for long period in this country’s history there was complete many years, but there has been a sea change and there is inconsistency in approaches to what a scheme could recognition both in the report and in the actions of the deliver. I support what the Minister has put in place, previous Government and this Government that the and I hope he will ensure that it is enshrined and performance of an economy can be directly related to embedded for a long period. transport. I was somewhat surprised at the report’s conclusions Transport can undoubtedly boost growth and increase about regional strategies and the removal of regional competitiveness, and one of the best policy interventions strategic development and development agencies. I listened a Government can make is to ensure that the infrastructure very carefully to the speech of the hon. Member for allows industry to thrive. Some of the infrastructure not Liverpool, Riverside and I almost intervened, but as I only benefits industry but improves the quality of life of hoped I would have the chance of catching your eye, a number of our citizens, although clearly it can be Madam Deputy Speaker, I saved my remarks. I listened provided in a number of ways that differ not only to the hon. Lady’s comments about what regional physically but financially. Efficient infrastructure will development agencies were doing for transport spending. allow efficient and cost-effective movement around national, However, I think the previous Transport Committee regional, sub-regional and local networks—I think that concluded in one of its reports—I forget which one—as that is implicitly recognised in the report. The fact that did commentators up and down the country, that the transport can boost the economy—the report questions variability among what RDAs delivered regarding transport its efficacy in some areas, which I wish to discuss was vast. It is fair to say that what the regional development later—is also self-evident. agency did in the north-west in some of the delivery and Any report that links transport and the economy is spending on transport projects was well appreciated welcome, but having read both the report and the and supported. However, in other parts of the country, Government’s response and having listened very carefully particularly the south-west, the RDA was felt to be to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside, I would failing almost everybody it attempted to help. like to address one or two areas of slight concern and some surprise. For instance, as the hon. Lady conceded, Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): we are discussing this report some time after its publication Does the hon. Gentleman acknowledge that the arguments and so a number of its explicit recommendations have, and strategies developed by “The Northern Way”, which to the Government’s credit, been covered in a number brought together three RDAs in the north of England, of ways. Indeed, it seemed to me that the Government made a huge contribution to the development of the were already covering a number of the report’s High Speed 2 project and the northern hub? recommendations at the time. Let me pick out recommendation 5 as an example. It Stephen Hammond: Indeed I do, and I thank the hon. states: Lady for making that point because it helps me to make “The Government must explain the nature of the economic my next point. One thing that this Government have solutions that it is seeking to deliver through transport spending recognised is that, although there was some mix of and how the schemes that it is supporting will achieve these RDAs, the reality is that a differing of approach in aims.” different areas will be the solution. 181 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 182

[Stephen Hammond] by the comments of the former chief economist at the DFT. Although those may have been made only in I also think it is quite clear that the report has response to the question that he was asked, it seemed to prejudged the efficacy of local enterprise partnerships. me to miss out quite a lot when he said that if one looks It seems to me that all the initial evidence, anecdotal at the history of the British economy, it is clear though it is because they have been in place for so short “how little the underlying rate of economic growth has varied.” a time, shows that they are taking their responsibilities towards transport seriously. He went on to add that transport had done very little to affect the overall growth rate of the British economy. Mrs Ellman: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his That seemed to miss out the fact that we have had comments. The report reflected the evidence that was wildly varying periods across history. given to the Committee. In taking this further, the The witness’s analysis went back almost 200 years. Prime Minister and the then Secretary of State recognised Over that time, we have had wildly differing levels of the potential gap that would be caused by the removal infrastructure investment, and there have been periods of the previous regional structures. Indeed, efforts are when the growth rate of the UK economy has been well being made to replace them through other means, but in excess of the 2% that he mentioned. His analysis also the comprehensive picture and the total results of the failed to consider the impact of under-investment, which changes are as yet unclear. is a well known phenomenon, how that would have dragged down the underlying potential growth rate of Stephen Hammond: Indeed, but the previous solution the economy even in a period when investment had was a template solution, a one-size-fits-all solution, a resumed, and the potential growth rate had there been “this is the way we must do it” solution, which did not consistent investment. Although the analysis that Mr Riley necessarily reflect the economic realities. As the hon. presented to the Committee may or may not be valid, it Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith) seems to me that it falls foul of the law of averages. I pointed out, in the north of England it was not one think that the analysis should look at the potential regional development agency, but a collaboration of for economic growth with a consistent approach to three. As I observed earlier, in certain parts of the investment. country structures well below the regional level developed and delivered more efficient transport solutions. I hope that in reading the report the Minister will not Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): Having listened be deflected from the idea that solutions of differing carefully to my hon. Friend’s argument and seen some sizes will fit different parts of the country, and that of the evidence that was given to the Committee, it LEPs have been in place for a relatively short time. Just seems to me that, although it could be argued that as regional development agencies were able to collaborate investment in transport might not be such a direct and co-operate, there is little doubt that LEPs will be factor in economic growth, we must also consider what able to do the same. It is also true that in certain parts of would happen if we did not make that investment and the country integrated transport authorities and passenger this country fell further behind, which I think would transport authorities will provide the lead in regional lead to economic shrinkage. structures. The clear message must be that there are differing appropriate sizes and structures. Stephen Hammond: I thank my hon. Friend, who more than eloquently makes the absolutely correct point— David Mowat: I agree that the jury is out on LEPs the final point in my analysis of the economic situation— and that the RDAs were not a panacea in this area, but about the economic analysis presented by Mr Riley. the real point is that neither the RDAs nor the LEPs can compete with the velocity of spending which is so One of the other learned gentlemen who gave evidence, skewed away from the regions and towards London and Professor Goodwin, spoke of the potential for investment the south-east. For example, when the Chancellor not to be transformational, but to be strategic—I am not announces £30 billion of spend, of which 80% was in sure whether he was playing with semantics. He did not London, that dwarfs the amount available to the RDAs like the word “transformational” but said that there was or the LEPs. The real issue is how we fix that problem, an element of strategy—I think “strategic” is the word rather than tinkering with the LEPs, which I hope, as I he used. He is right that there has been a continued am sure does my hon. Friend, will work in time. over-egging of the ability of certain single projects to produce the sort of result that some people hope for. Stephen Hammond: I certainly agree with the latter However, if we look at the sheer size of certain point. It is beyond the scope of my comments this schemes and the investment that this and previous afternoon to go into the differing amounts of regional Governments have made that complements and adds to money. I accept that there clearly is some imbalance in what is already in place, and/or if we look at the smarter subsidy between varying regions of the country. It is changes and smarter choices in transport packages, we important to analyse what that can deliver and its will see that there is a real chance for transport and efficacy. It is interesting to speculate what Crossrail infrastructure investment to be transformational. I suspect might bring to London in future, as opposed to what that some of the moves on work travel packages, which the northern hub might bring to the north. I suspect that aim to increase access to work, and some of the major the benefits of the northern hub might be greater than electrification projects, which are combined with other those of Crossrail. We will wait and see. I am sure the minor schemes in parts of the south-west, will in five or Minister and the DFT will continue to reflect on that. six years’ time be considered transformational. In that As a practitioner of the dark art of economics, I regard, the evidence given to the Committee probably know that different economists will always have differing fails to recognise transport’s ability to be transformational views on everything. Reading the report, I was struck and, more importantly, to enable economic growth. 183 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 184

Moreover, the point that neither of those two learned travel, but now that the collieries have closed many gentlemen discussed—this is where I disagree with the people find that they have to travel a long way, and analysis of the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside—is many miles, to get to work, so a reliable public bus that if transport is part of a cluster of other investments, service is a necessity. including increases in education, access to work, economic The bus service is required not only for work, but by development zones and others, its ability to contribute young people who want to go to college; by the elderly, to the potential for economic growth is far in excess of who might want to go to hospital or to a medical what that would have been had the investment been appointment; by the same groups of people to see made on its own. A number of people will have made a friends and family; especially by young people just better analysis of the cluster theory than I have, but that starting out on their career, who may not have the is broadly what it says. Yet again, if transport is combined money to buy a car and need the bus to get to work; and with other Government policies, its ability to have a by people on low incomes. We need to think also of the significant impact should not be underestimated. unemployed, who might see a job in the newspaper or in I will finish with a few other remarks. I warmly the jobcentre that they would love to do, but who know welcome and support the conclusion that using transport that they cannot apply for it because there is no bus to support and stimulate the economy and to attempt to service to take them to the factory or the office. reduce regional economic disparities is surely right. The Concerns about local bus services have risen up the test of the Government in that regard must be whether political agenda not only in areas such as Sedgefield they are showing any understanding of those challenges. over the past couple of years, but in the rest of County In a time when the key overriding economic priority Durham. I have a steady flow of complaints from must be to reduce the economic deficit and ensure that constituents who are incensed at the cuts to services, the public finances are put on a more stable profile, this especially by Arriva, which pulls services at the last Government are undertaking a number of measures moment, without any notification or consultation. Any which recognise those challenges and provide economic cancellation of a route is not well advertised. On more support in relation to it. We have seen that, significantly, than one occasion, whole villages have been left without through the Minister’s sponsorship of several local transport any services whatsoever. When I compare the services plans and investment programmes, and they are having that Arriva has in County Durham with those that it on a small scale quite a huge impact on bus routes, local has in London, I think, yes, we should have an excellent transport—in terms of local rail—and other issues. public transport service in the capital city, but we need Equally, the support for major projects throughout something equivalent in our rural areas as well, with the regions, such as the northern hub, which has been regulation to ensure that there is a social obligation on mentioned, the electrification of the south-west main privatised bus companies to ensure that people can get line and the investment in the east coast main line over to work. the past 10 years, strikes me as sending a clear message Bus services are being cut in our rural areas as part of that this Government recognise the need to maintain the expenditure cuts to address the deficit. There has transport infrastructure spend. been a 28% fall in funding for councils, combined with As the Chairman of the Transport Committee pointed the ending of ring-fencing of grants for bus services, a out, the Department for Transport has done relatively 20% cut in the bus service operators grant paid to bus well from the overall comprehensive spending review companies, and a shake-up of the free travel scheme for debate, and that represents the Government’s understanding pensioners. Pensioners now often say, “What is the of the need for and importance of transport infrastructure. point of a bus pass if there are no buses to catch I have spoken principally about rail in my last few because they have been cancelled?” As a consequence of remarks, but it is clear also that we neglect at our peril all these cuts, Durham county council has withdrawn the need to maintain and upgrade our roads, and some £322,000 in funding from subsidised public transport smaller road schemes will have a bigger impact than routes, leaving many villages with few or no services in some major, strategic ones, so the £3 billion that the the evening or at the weekend. My postbag has been full Government are putting into local road schemes over of letters and petitions about the repercussions of the four years is likely to have a positive impact on local, changes brought about by spending cuts originating in regional and overall economic growth. Whitehall. I welcome the report, which has sponsored a debate Let me explain what this has meant in practice for about transport and the economy. I welcome also the people needing these services in the rural communities Government having evidenced by their actions their of Sedgefield—villages such Bishop Middleham and understanding of the need for infrastructure in order to Fishburn, as well as Middleton St George, which is in support economic growth and the quality of life of our the south of the constituency. One local constituent can citizens. I am sure that the Minister, in his winding-up no longer get to work without the help of friends, and remarks, will say that this is not just the start but a others can no longer catch a bus and so have to use a continuing policy of the Government. taxi, which obviously inflates the cost of getting to work. 5.12 pm Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): I Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): I want to take this sympathise with the hon. Gentleman’s constituents who opportunity to raise the issue of declining rural bus services, face a problem with bus services, but does he accept that especially in County Durham and in Sedgefield. this is not a new phenomenon? Rural bus services have County Durham is a rural area and home to many been poor in many areas for a long time, and the previous villages, most of which had a colliery at one time. When Labour Government did nothing about reintroducing the collieries were open, people did not have very far to any sort of regulation in areas such as County Durham. 185 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 186

Phil Wilson: There may have been a lack of regulation, My question to the Minister is whether, because the but we had a level of subsidy that had not been cut to money has been there in the past, it will be there in the the extent that it has been since, and some subsidies that future. Will his Department push for extra funding for were made available have been paid back to the Treasury. subsidies so that additional bus services can be provided in areas such as County Durham? There is a lot of talk Angela Smith: Does my hon. Friend recognise that about the need for growth in the economy. I respectfully the Local Transport Act 2008 brought back a level of suggest to the Government that it is a fundamental regulation, but it was opposed by the Conservative prerequisite of any economic growth strategy that employees party with which the hon. Member for Manchester, are able to get to work. Withington (Mr Leech) is in coalition? The lack of understanding in this area does not promise much for the future. There seems to have been a Phil Wilson: We can see from the lack of people on fundamental failure in basic arithmetic. The Department the Liberal Democrat Benches that this issue is not of has imposed deep cuts to bus grants, leading to the particular importance to them. Whatever they said axing of dozens, if not hundreds, of bus routes and to before the election, they are saying exactly the opposite steep fare hikes, only to end up with £543 million to today. spare. As a consequence, Durham county council and I have a constituent called Mrs Hardy who lives in other local authorities are getting the flak for the cut in Bishop Middleham. She has asthma and a heart complaint bus subsidy and the resulting cuts in bus services. My and has worked at the same place for 34 years. Now she constituents have great difficulties in getting to work, to cannot get a direct route to work and arrives an hour the hospital, to college or to see friends. The Department late, and the return journey that she has to make does for Transport lost £543 million down the back of the not take her back to her own home. She is quoted in The sofa, just to find it and hand it back to the Treasury. Northern Echo as saying: Will the Minister therefore apologise to Mrs Hardy and “I am now in the stressful situation of having to beg lifts from the many others who are having difficulty catching a friends, colleagues and family and don’t know how I am going to bus today because of his Department’s carelessness? get to work from one day to the next.” The letter from the Minister of State, Department for Her story is not unique. However, with the help of Work and Pensions, the right hon. Member for Epsom Durham county council, I have been able to get Arriva and Ewell also states: to put on a couple of buses on workday mornings so “The matter of poor public transport in Sedgefield and County that people like Mrs Hardy can get to work. That new Durham”— regime starts on 19 March. Likewise, by applying pressure on Arriva, we have been able to redirect buses around at least the DWP acknowledges that transport in Sedgefield Fishburn. However, that only partly solves the problem and County Durham is poor— and is not the whole answer. There must be many more “is a matter for the Department for Transport. I have forwarded a employees in my constituency who find themselves in copy of your letter to that Department so that Ministerial colleagues such a position. are aware of your constituents’ concerns.” I have raised this issue with the Department for Work Will the Minister tell me what his Department and the and Pensions. If somebody resigns from their job voluntarily DWP are doing to alleviate the situation of poor public because they can no longer get to work, they can no transport in places such as Sedgefield and County longer claim benefit because they are deemed to have Durham? Is there any joined-up thinking in Government resigned. The Minister of State, Department for Work to alleviate this problem? Finally, what plans does the and Pensions, the right hon. Member for Epsom and Department have to re-regulate or regulate more thoroughly Ewell (Chris Grayling) responded: bus services in rural areas around the UK so that people “The Jobseekers Act (1995) provides that JSA will not be paid who have jobs can get to them? for a period between 1 week and 26 weeks to anyone who has lost their employment as an employed earner by leaving voluntarily without just cause. 5.23 pm The law does not provide guidance on how just cause should be interpreted because the circumstances in which employees Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con): I leave employment are so varied.” apologise for missing the beginning of the debate. I am The Government need to do a bit of joined-up thinking serving on a Public Bill Committee at the moment and on this issue because it affects many people in rural will have to return to it at some point. areas around the country, who we are perhaps not I listened carefully to the hon. Member for Sedgefield finding out about. This situation needs urgent attention. (Phil Wilson). I, too, will talk about rural bus services, The Department for Transport needs to liaise with the because my constituency of Staffordshire Moorlands, DWP to find out the extent of the problem in rural as one can guess from its name, is incredibly rural. It is areas. The problems with the buses in my constituency also, perhaps uniquely in central England, a constituency came to a head in the new year. that contains neither a dual carriageway nor a mainline Last week, we found out from the Transport Committee train station, which gives us unique transport problems. report on the expenditure of the Department for Transport We are within one and a half hours of three international that the money was there to maintain the subsidy, but it airports, but I have yet to find a way to get from one of was handed back to the Treasury. To use the Select the main motorways that surround my constituency—the Committee’s word, how “slack” is that? The Select M1, the M6, the M56 and various others—to my home Committee was surely correct to state in paragraph 11: in Leek, in the centre of the constituency, in less than “Money voted by Parliament for expenditure on transport 40 minutes. That shows that Staffordshire Moorlands is should be spent on transport, not handed back to the Treasury.” isolated from much of the rest of the country. 187 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 188

That poses a challenge, because we want people to 60 mph zone. Because of those villages being in an area come to Staffordshire Moorlands. A third of my seat by of outstanding natural beauty, signage is not quite as geography is in the Peak District national park, which is obvious as it should be. A constituent wrote to me only incredibly beautiful. We have the Manifold valley, the this week saying that they live just on the point where Roaches and other places that we desperately want the 30 mph zone starts in the village of Alton, which, as people to come to and—I mention this as we are debating the name suggests, is next to Alton Towers. Many transport and the economy—spend their money. Given drivers use that road to go to Alton Towers and are our transport infrastructure, getting them there is obviously unaware that they have just entered a 30 mph zone. We not easy. need increased signposting and more traffic calming We have not only the beautiful Peak District national measures. We have seen great success with the solar park but Alton Towers, one of the biggest tourist attractions powered signs that flash up a warning that a driver is in the country. Again, we want people to come to that speeding and should be doing only 50 mph, 40 mph, great national institution, of which we are very proud. 30 mph or whatever is the appropriate speed. Those Unfortunately, anybody who has visited Alton Towers traffic-calming measures have been more successful than will know that to get to it, one has to travel through others. some beautiful villages where there can be significant I congratulate Staffordshire county council, which traffic congestion. The challenge is to get people to has been instrumental in introducing 20 mph speed come to Staffordshire Moorlands and spend their money, limits outside schools. Some rural schools in my but also to ensure that the people who live there because constituency are on very busy rural roads, and a 20 mph of its great beauty can do business and trade with the speed limit is welcomed by parents. I encourage the rest of the country and globally. I recently visited a council to introduce more such limits in the rest of the design company based in the Peak park that does constituency. business across the world and needs to be able to get to I would be remiss in a speech about transport in the motorways and trains, but in a way that does not Staffordshire Moorlands not to mention the ongoing damage the beautiful environment in which we live. local issue of road changes in Leek. That is a matter for I say to the Minister that I am not here today to call the local authority and I am not calling on the Minister for great investment in new roads. Perhaps some potholes to make any specific comment on the detail, but I want being filled in would be appreciated, but we are not to state for the record that anything that can be done to looking for great infrastructure developments across improve the ability of pedestrians to cross the road Staffordshire Moorlands, merely better ways for people safely will be greatly appreciated. As things stand, the to travel. shops in Leek will not be accessible by pedestrians It is also worth pointing out that some of the most because there will be no pedestrian crossing between the statistically dangerous roads in the country are in and car parks and the shopping area. That might sound around Staffordshire Moorlands. It is an area very slightly unusual, but it has been proposed and I should much favoured by motorcyclists, particularly on beautiful like to put on record my concern about it. sunny afternoons such as we have had over the past few The hon. Member for Sedgefield mentioned rural bus weekends. Rarely does a week go by without an accident services. The Minister has met one of my local bus being reported in the local newspaper, very often a fatal companies—a very successful family business—and has accident. I know from my local fire service and police heard its concerns. Subsidies across different local authorities that the road traffic accident rate is probably the main are a particular concern to local bus companies in the reason for the high levels of the activity statistics that moorlands, and some bus companies run routes across they report. four local authority areas. Establishing what subsidy My final point in setting the scene is that Staffordshire each local authority provides and what regulation and Moorlands is a border area. It is the most northerly seat Criminal Records Bureau checks each imposes makes it in the west midlands, bordered by Cheshire in the difficult for private bus operators to operate in areas north-west and Derbyshire in the east midlands. That such as the moorlands. causes specific concerns. For example, on some of our Another matter for local bus operators is school most dangerous roads there are different speed limits at transport. As in any largely rural constituency, many different points, because they cross the borders between schoolchildren in mine travel significant distances between local authorities that have made different decisions their home and school. School transport provision is about the appropriate limit. That causes the problem raised regularly with me by constituents, and particularly that drivers do not know what the speed limit is, because those whose children have to walk long distances down they might not be totally convinced about whether they isolated and badly lit lanes to access a bus service to are in Staffordshire yet. The same problem applies to take them to their school, which in many cases is many bus services, which I will come to later. miles from home. Another important business in my constituency is the Road hauliers were probably the only group in the great number of hauliers. Being in the Peak District run-up to the election and afterward to lobby for an national park and neighbouring the Potteries, we have increase in VAT, desperate as they were for a levelling of great natural resources such as limestone and clay, so a the playing field between them and overseas haulage haulage industry has grown up. Again, that poses specific companies. They were grateful for the increase in VAT, problems. but it will come as no surprise to the Minister to learn What transport problems have constituents raised that they are pushing for a cut in fuel duty. They are with me? I have already spoken about speed limits, and also concerned about EU regulations and raise the matter the signposting of them is incredibly important. There regularly. Many feel that EU regulations are imposed is the problem of crossing borders, but also, in some on them that are perhaps not observed or enforced in villages there is a change from a 30 mph zone to a other countries. They are keen to ensure that EU regulations 189 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 190

[Karen Bradley] an enormous number of aggregate lorries leaving the roads and travelling by train, which would be of great are not gold-plated for UK hauliers. They want appropriate benefit to people living in the Moorlands. The quarry regulations because they understand, as all hon. Members owners, too, are keen to get as much on the railway as do, that regulation and health and safety rules are possible. necessary, but there should be a level playing field for our hauliers and those from overseas with which they Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): I have had the compete. privilege of visiting Leek—it is a beautiful place—and I While I am talking about haulage and large lorries, I have seen that railway line. Perhaps it might be possible must mention quiet lanes and sat-nav. It will probably to run a passenger train on it, as well as the steam trains come as no surprise to hon. Members to learn that and freight trains. That would help without putting any numerous signs are popping up around Staffordshire more danger on the roads. Moorlands to advise drivers that the route they are recommended to take by their sat-nav is not suitable for Karen Bradley: That is exactly what Moorlands and heavy vehicles, or often even for normal domestic cars. City Railways wishes to do. It would like passenger That is becoming more important in rural areas such as trains to return to Staffordshire Moorlands for the first Staffordshire Moorlands, and I am sure hon. Members time since the line was officially closed in, I think, the on both sides of the House have the same experience. 1950s. There is a problem, though: part of the line Any pressure that the Ministry could put on satellite extension would involve relaying track to the village of navigation companies to help them to identify inappropriate Alton to provide access to Alton Towers by train. In quiet lanes would be very much appreciated. theory, that is a good idea, but that part of the country is an area of outstanding natural beauty and the residents One problem caused by the lack of public transport along the railway track are very concerned about the gets raised with me a lot. People are reliant on their cars, proposal. Although I can see the benefits of getting and whenever I do a high school hustings, without fail traffic off the roads, it has to be done sympathetically. people mention car insurance for young drivers. The cost is hurting young drivers and preventing them from Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): helping with economic growth by taking apprenticeships Does my hon. Friend agree that such consideration for and attending training. They need to drive their cars areas of outstanding natural beauty should be taken to get to work, but car insurance premiums are a barrier into account for all train systems, or does she limit her to that. remarks to Staffordshire Moorlands? Although my constituency has no main line train station, as I mentioned earlier, we have an excellent Karen Bradley: I fear that my hon. Friend’s question heritage railway, the Churnet Valley railway, which runs might be related to a certain high-speed line, which is wonderful steam trains every weekend. If anyone wishes something that I was going to touch on briefly. to visit Staffordshire Moorlands and ride on the Churnet Valley railway, they will be welcome. It is being extended Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con): I thank my hon. Friend as far as the Cauldon quarry, a large cement works in for speaking so eloquently about her local trains and the moorlands. On Sunday, I was delighted to see the infrastructure. I am sure that she agrees with me about number of cars around the railway lines carrying people the importance of the investment that the Government to see the steam engines travelling through and to enjoy are making in local infrastructure, such as reopening the spectacle of a steam train travelling through the the train station at Ilkeston, for which we in Erewash Peak district. have been campaigning for a long time, .

Richard Harrington: I am conscious that, as has been Karen Bradley: I know how much hard work my hon. pointed out to me on several occasions, my hon. Friend’s Friend is putting into reopening the train station at knowledge of Watford is limited to whizzing through Ilkeston. As one from a neighbouring county, I am well on the train, but notwithstanding what she said about aware that that would be a great asset to the residents of rural areas, I hope she understands that extensions to Ilkeston and the people of Derbyshire. train services such as the Croxley rail link, for which the Government have just given funding—I am grateful to Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con): And Nottinghamshire. the Minister for his time and effort on that project—are also important to constituents such as mine, and do not Karen Bradley: Absolutely. take away from train facilities in rural areas. I cannot pretend that HS2 will affect Staffordshire Moorlands directly, as it is not scheduled to go through Karen Bradley: I agree with my hon. Friend. In fact, the moorlands. My concern is that, although it is half my knowledge of Watford extends to having attended a an hour away, there is already an incredibly good high-speed few training courses in Watford over the years, not just rail service, with journey times of an hour and 24 minutes, to whizzing through on the train. I wholeheartedly on the west coast main line between London Euston concur that any extensions to train services in the and Stoke-on-Trent. Although I have my half-hour Watford area will be greatly appreciated. journey at the other end, it is still a fast line. My great The extension of the heritage railway in my constituency concern is that if HS2 was introduced without imposing is being funded by a private rail company that has been capacity requirements on the line, my existing high-speed a recipient of money from the regional growth fund—it train line would be lost. is very grateful to the Government for that financial Let me make two further remarksbefore I finish. The support. The company is looking to reopen the line to first is about the Peak park cycleways, which I thoroughly Stoke-on-Trent from the quarry, which would result in encourage everybody to use. People will soon be able to 191 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 192 cycle round the whole of the Peak park without setting Jonathan Ashworth: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. foot on a road, and they will be able to get there by To help other Members get in, I will take no more train. Secondly and finally, let me say something about interventions. In answer to the hon. Lady, I recognise inland waterways, although I know that they are not that concern, but on balance I think that HS2 is a good strictly within the Department for Transport’s remit. investment for the economy. However, I want to focus We have some fantastic inland waterways, but I would on the midland main line, if she will allow me. like more use to be made of them. I would be grateful if the Minister passed on my thanks to the Minister of State, Department for Transport, Several hon. Members rose— who last night kindly met me, my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) and the deputy Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I mayor of Leicester, Rory Palmer, to discuss electrification. understand that this debate is important, but if we want It was a good meeting, and I was grateful for the way to get everybody in, we will unfortunately have to drop she responded to our questions. the time limit to six minutes. I would argue that electrification makes economic sense. The midland main line is the slowest northbound route out of London. It is the only main line to London 5.41 pm that has not been electrified and where there are no Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): I start by immediate plans for electrification. Electrification would paying tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for mean improved journey times, improved performance Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), who spoke with times and improved reliability. Crucially, electrification great eloquence and distinction. She spoke a lot of ought to provide good value for money: estimates show good sense on behalf of the Transport Committee and I that savings in operating costs and increases in passenger agreed with every word that she said. She is quite right revenues would greatly exceed investment costs. Full to draw the link between the wider impact on economic electrification along the line would reduce the costs of growth and investing in and building a modern transport rolling stock, energy and maintenance and would therefore infrastructure. meet the aspirations of the McNulty review. It would The Transport Committee’s recent paper highlighted bring huge benefits to cities such as Leicester and to the the need for the Government to east midlands as a whole, as well as to Sheffield and South Yorkshire. “ensure that where it approves transport schemes designed to stimulate economic growth and rebalance the economy, they are supported by convincing economic development strategies.” Angela Smith: Does my hon. Friend agree that the increased relationship between Rolls-Royce and Sheffield In my brief speech I will argue that electrification of the means that connecting Derby and Sheffield more efficiently midland main line meets exactly those criteria, but would be good for the economies of both cities? although that is what I want to concentrate on, I will start by saying a word or two about high-speed rail. Jonathan Ashworth: I said that I would not give way On balance I support high-speed rail, although I again—my apologies, Mr Deputy Speaker. My hon. understand the arguments against it, not least the argument Friend is quite right, though: Rolls-Royce is a major put by hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea employer in Derby and elsewhere in the east midlands—in Leadsom). However, I want to put a point to the Hucknall, for example—and connecting Derby and Minister on which I hope he can reassure me in his Sheffield in that way is crucial for the economy. summing up. There is concern among campaigners for the electrification of the midland main line that they One analysis has shown that the electrification of the may not see any direct advantage from HS2—that resources line would benefit the economy by £12 million a year for the scheme will be taken away and we will never get and by almost £450 million over the appraisal period, electrification. [Interruption.] The Minister is shaking which makes an overwhelming case for it. It would also his head, but that is a genuine concern, so perhaps he improve our links with Northamptonshire, making it can touch on it in his response to the debate. easier for me to visit the hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom) should I wish to do so, as well as the links between Derby and Sheffield. Andrea Leadsom: As I will not get the opportunity to All estimates suggest that the conurbations served by speak later, I want to ask the hon. Gentleman whether the midland main line are set to grow—between 2000 he agrees that there is a concern about the total cost of and 2010, the population of those areas grew by 300,000, high-speed rail, bearing in mind that the Y shape is not and estimates suggest that it will grow by 800,000 by even known yet, and the rising cost of mitigation and 2030—so in addition to the economic reason for the compensation that is the inevitable result of that investment, there is also the simple reason of population uncertainty? Does he share my concern about the impact growth. that that will have on scarce resources? The trains currently running on the route are diesels, and research suggests that CO2 emissions could be Jonathan Ashworth rose— reduced by 43,000 per annum as a result of electrification. There is therefore also a good environmental argument Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. Before the hon. Gentleman for pressing ahead with electrification. There is answers, let me remind hon. Members that the idea another strong value-for-money argument, which is that behind imposing a time limit is to get everybody in. He electrification would result in immediate job creation is well placed, but every time there is an intervention, along the line, it would boost the economy, and it would that adds another minute, which means that somebody help cities such as Leicester to attract more inward else will drop off the bottom. investment. I am sure that it would do the same for other 193 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 194

[Jonathan Ashworth] are essential to UK inward investment. More specifically, I would say that Heathrow is the only hub airport in cities in the region and in South Yorkshire. It would Europe that does not have a rail link to its immediate bring long-term advantages to Leicester and the wider hinterland. It has one to London, but nothing to the east midlands, and it will therefore be crucial for our Thames valley, which is the most productive area for region in the next few years. inward investment in the UK and is obviously essential As I said, I am grateful to the Minister of State for to get growth in Britain. meeting us last night, and I hope that the Under-Secretary of State replying to this debate will pass on my thanks Mr Leech: I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. to her. Last week, at Transport questions, the Minister It is fair to say that the Government have prioritised of State told me: some schemes in London and the south-east—the Crossrail “The electrification of the midland main line has been prioritised project, for instance, which has received an enormous by the industry in its initial industry plan, which will form an amount of money. Other parts of the country have important part of the decisions that we have to make on what will certainly received significantly less funding over a long be funded in the next railway control period.”—[Official Report, period. 23 February 2012; Vol. 540, c. 1012.] There are some encouraging signs, however. In That answer aroused a great deal of excitement that Manchester, rail capacity and journey times will benefit evening’s edition of the BBC’s “East Midlands Today”, greatly from the additional electrification work, including and in my own fine newspaper, the Leicester Mercury.If that of the TransPennine Express, and the funding for the Under-Secretary wants star billing on “East Midlands the Ordsall chord. Congestion will be eased with the Today” this evening, or in the Leicester Mercury, the completion of the airport link road—a scheme for Nottingham Post or the Derby Evening Telegraph,he which my hon. Friends the Members for Cheadle (Mark need only get up and announce from the Dispatch Box Hunter) and for Hazel Grove (Andrew Stunell) have that he is going to strike while the iron is hot, build on been campaigning for many years. Metrolink extensions the profile that the Minister of State already has in the have also been given the green light and are under east midlands, and say yes to the electrification of the construction, including within my constituency. midland main line. From a Manchester perspective, two projects hold the key to whether the Government’s commitment to 5.48 pm rebalancing the economy will be followed through to its conclusion. The first is high-speed rail, and the second Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): I and more urgent is the funding for the northern hub, should like to begin by congratulating the hon. Member which I am sure the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), the Chair of our my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), Select Committee, on securing this debate and opening will be sick of me raising with him on so many occasions. it this afternoon. The contributions so far have been varied, covering a wide range of transport issues from The debate about high-speed rail will drag on, with up and down the country. I want to concentrate on the supporters and opponents making arguments and counter- specific elements of the Committee’s “Transport and arguments about whether the real economic benefits are the economy” report that deal with the role of transport predominantly for London and the south-east. However, in rebalancing the economy. what cannot be disputed is the fact that the north will see the greatest possible level of benefit only once During this time of economic uncertainty, transport high-speed rail reaches Manchester and Leeds. I welcome must be a key factor in stimulating growth. To their the Government’s commitment to the next phase of the credit, the coalition Government have learned from the high-speed rail network, but I want to know what the mistakes made by previous Governments during economic Government are doing about bringing forward the timetable, downturns and prioritised investment in transport so that we do not have to wait another 20 years before infrastructure. While other Departments saw an average we reap the full benefits. reduction in capital expenditure of 29%, the transport capital programme was reduced by only 11%, with I recognise that for once the Government are looking Treasury forecasts that by 2014-15 capital investment towards our transport needs for the next 100 years would be higher in real terms than it was in 2005-06. rather than for the next 10 years, but we need to do This has meant that a number of capital schemes have more to bring forward the time scale so that the regions been able to go ahead that would almost certainly have can benefit as soon as humanly possible. faced the axe in previous economic downturns. From Manchester’s perspective, however, the real test As a northern MP representing south Manchester, I for the Government will be whether or not funding will welcome the Government’s commitment to economic be forthcoming for the northern hub. With £80 million rebalancing and reducing the north-south divide. This already secured for the Ordsall chord, the complete hub received a cautious welcome, I would say, in the Select scheme will cost only £560 million in total—and possibly Committee report. Transport funding has consistently less, given that some elements of the project are already favoured London and the south-east to the detriment of included in other committed individual schemes. We areas of the north and the south-west. If we are to see a should compare this to the billions of pounds that the rebalancing of the economy, this needs to be reflected in Government have committed for Crossrail. current and future transport funding. In a Westminster Hall debate in January, the hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer), Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): On that issue, I who is not in his place this afternoon, calculated that share the view of the hon. Member for Wimbledon three months of Crossrail payments would pay for the (Stephen Hammond) that some projects in the south whole of the northern hub. I am not sure how accurate 195 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 196 the hon. Gentleman’s maths is, but it certainly puts into White Paper on transport and the economy be produced perspective the difference in funding levels for the two exactly to clarify that point. The report is important, schemes. At a cost-benefit ratio of 4:1, with an estimated too, because it makes clear that investment in transport 20,000 to 30,000 new jobs and a £4 billion boost to the infrastructure needs to be linked to plans for economic economy, the northern hub is the opportunity for the development. HS2 provides a good example. Government to show their commitment to rebalancing The argument for HS2 is partly about capacity, so it the economy. relates strongly to the role cited in the Eddington report I questioned the Minister of State, Department for for transport investment to reduce congestion, thereby Transport, the right hon. Member for Chipping Barnet removing barriers to economic growth. HS2 is also (Mrs Villiers), during the Select Committee inquiry, and about bringing economies across the country closer she said that the northern hub together, improving the dynamics of those relationships—in “must be a really strong contender for support in the next railway other words, the agglomeration benefit. funding settlement control period.” She went on to confirm the Government’s intention to Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): Does my try to close the prosperity gap between the regions, hon. Friend agree that unless some time line is put on saying: extension of HS2 further north, there will be considerable “One of the ways in which we could do that is by targeting our cynicism in areas like the north-east that a great deal of transport spending on projects which will generate growth in investment will be made that will have very little economic different regions.” impact on such regions? Well, I could not agree more. If the Government are serious about economic rebalancing, they need to confirm Angela Smith: I wholly concur. In fact, if we are to the funding for the northern hub, and not just in a maximise the agglomeration benefits of HS2, I would piecemeal way. The Government need to come up with argue that the economies—from the far north to London all the cash in control period 5. and the south—that are linked by the HS2 line must have clear strategies in place for economic development In the short time left, I should like briefly to raise two in order that the transport investment represented by other issues mentioned in our report. The first relates high-speed rail can perform to its full potential. to the dependence of transport priorities on local circumstances. A one-size-fits-all or a Government-know- Phil Wilson: It is obviously vital that the HS2 route best approach will not work. In line with the coalition eventually reaches the north-east of England. I do not Government’s localism agenda, there needs to be more know whether my hon. Friend is aware of it, but Hitachi local determination of what works in each local area. is building a train-building facility in Newton Aycliffe National Government is not well placed to decide what in my constituency. It has already said that if this project is best for an individual area and what will best support goes ahead, it will be bidding for the rolling stock. economic growth. Metrolink has been a massive success in Manchester, driving economic growth and stimulating Angela Smith: That illustrates my point about the regeneration to areas such as Salford Quays and Eccles, need to have clear plans for economic development in as well as encouraging modal shift in areas such as my place alongside plans for transport investment. constituency. The report is also important because it points out The need for local decision making was reflected in very clearly that there is a lack of transparency and the report’s conclusions— consistency in the decision-making process at the Department for Transport. Finally, it is important because Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. it points out that the removal of regional structures created by the last Government risks creating a vacuum 5.56 pm in effective planning for transport infrastructure. Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): I I want to focus particularly on the report’s recognition start my short contribution by paying tribute to the that the Government should produce a White Paper Chair of the Select Committee, my hon. Friend the explaining explicitly how their plans for transport investment Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), who will be linked to their plans for the economy more has shown astounding leadership for some time. I am generally, and in particular explaining their plans for particularly proud that this report is being debated rebalancing the UK economy. Rebalancing is important today, as I was a member of the Select Committee when not just to the economic development of areas such as we first met after the election. Indeed, I was one of the north-west and Yorkshire but to the whole country, those calling for this inquiry, so I am particularly pleased including London and the greater south-east. to be able to contribute to today’s debate. We need transport investment to maximise the potential The report on “Transport and the economy” is an for a more dynamic set of relationships between economies important one. We have heard broad statements and across the country. HS2 is a case in point. According to warm words from the Government for some time about The Northern Way, its potential impact of £13 billion transport and its role in supporting economic growth, would deliver at least £3 billion of economic impact to but there is no sense of how their decisions on transport the north. The point is, however, that its economic fit into a strategy, and no clear sense of how any impact will affect the whole country, and therefore particular scheme announced by the Government will potentially benefits everyone. fit into a strategy for economic growth. Nor is it clear What do we need if we are to rebalance the economy how the Government’s decisions will help to deliver in transport terms? I believe that we need three things. their stated intention of rebalancing the economy. I First, we need more transparency and greater consistency therefore welcome the report’s recommendation that a in decision making, so that we can hold the Government 197 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 198

[Angela Smith] £774 in London and £276 in Yorkshire and the Humber. The source of those figures is the most recent version of to account in relation to their stated aim of rebalancing a public expenditure spending analysis from Her Majesty’s the economy. Secondly, we need political bravery: we Treasury. I ask the Minister to respond to them, and to need to use investment to maximise economic development demonstrate by way of a full written explanation— in areas such as the north of England, and to remove barriers to growth in those areas. Thirdly, we urgently Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I call need to know more about how the Government will Stuart Andrew. develop sub-regional, regional and even cross-regional structures enabling them to produce sound, well-thought- 6.5 pm out strategies for the delivery of transport infrastructure. Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): I am grateful for the The removal of the regional development agencies opportunity to speak in the debate. and, by definition, The Northern Way group of RDAs, has left a vacuum in regional planning, especially—as Transport clearly affects all our constituencies. My the report points out—in the context of their role in own constituency forms part of the city of Leeds, which supporting regional economies. Moreover, the local is the biggest financial centre outside London and, as enterprise partnerships have not been thought through. such, as been hugely successful. People from throughout How will these new structures working at sub-regional the county work there every day. That success has put and city-regional level work structurally across LEP huge pressures on our transport infrastructure, and all boundaries to deliver what our regions need? our railways and roads are heavily congested. As a result of that and the conversion of ex-employment The north of England is a perfect example. As a sites in my constituency—particularly the old mills—into result of The Northern Way and its superb work in residential developments, more people are travelling to developing arguments and strategies relating to transport, work, thus adding to the congestion. In the current the case for the northern hub has been clearly made and more difficult economic climate, it is more important accepted even by the coalition Government. The northern than ever for us to do all that we can to make it easier hub is needed, of course, to tackle congestion on the for people to travel, because that will help business to be northern rail network, thereby helping to remove barriers active in a wider geographical area. An increase in to economic growth; but it is also needed in the context economic activity will present real employment of the decision to go ahead with HS2. It is important opportunities to people who are out of work. that we deliver both projects in order not just to reduce congestion on the network but, as I mentioned earlier, Given that the Government have an unprecedented to maximise the potential benefit of HS2. deficit to deal with—let us not forget that that is the biggest threat to economic growth—it is impressive that If we are to maximise the potential of HS2 to make they have been able to announce so many major transport the relationship between the economies of the north projects. For instance, it has been announced that in my and London more dynamic, we must also ensure that own area, in Leeds, the M62 is to be widened. Anyone those agglomeration benefits are spread across the north. who has travelled on that road will know now congested If that is to happen, the Government must recognise the it is. The southern access to Leeds railway station will importance of transport infrastructure in supporting create an opportunity for the southern part of the city economic development plans. In particular, they must to develop economically. New railway stations are being recognise our great northern cities as hubs for economic built at Kirkstall Forge and Apperley Bridge, which will development. They must recognise the importance of help with congestion and will also release £250 million greater connectivity—not only with London, on a north- of private investment. The electrification of the line south axis, but on an east-west axis, between the northern between Manchester and Leeds will be a huge benefit: urban centres, and with international gateways not just anyone who has tried to get on to a train on that line at at Heathrow and Gatwick but at the mouth of the peak times knows how horrendous the journey can be. Humber and Mersey rivers. Extra trains have also been provided on the Airedale line. We need regional planning. As the report says, without it there will be a risk that choices will be made on a basis Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Will the that discriminates against weaker economies. There is hon. Gentleman—who is a member of the Welsh Affairs already an example of that in the form of the Government’s Committee—support my call for the electrification of decision to electrify the Leeds-to-Manchester cross-Pennine the line from Cardiff to Swansea, and say no to any route, which discriminates against what I call the third prospect that people will have to get out at Cardiff on point of the golden triangle of the north: the city of the way to Swansea from London? Sheffield. We need the Govt to recognise the broader context of Stuart Andrew: As the hon. Gentleman knows, the an economic policy that involves stimulation of the Committee is considering the issue of east-west travel. I economy and the role that transport could play in it. look forward to his contributions, for he is a diligent Long-term infrastructure projects should be brought member. [Interruption.] I will not say any more at the forward, as outlined in Labour’s alternative plan for jobs moment. I have my own area to fight for. and growth, but instead we are seeing significant cuts in HS2 means that we can now connect our great cities, investment, such as the £759 million cut on top of the create thousands of new jobs, and release desperately £528 million efficiency savings supported by Labour. needed capacity. That is real investment, which can only We also need the Government to recognise the spending help to increase our economic activity. disparity between the north and the south. The Passenger Let me now say something about the differences in Transport Executive Group has produced some interesting spending in different parts of the country. For years, figures. In 2010-11, transport spending per head was spending per head in the north has been considerably 199 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 200 less than that in the south. Under the last Government, can be four times more expensive than the cost of spending per head in Leeds was less than the national maintaining it. How much of the investment that has average. That difference still exists, and it is important been announced will be spent on new roads and how for us to deal with it. In the many transport debates that much will be spent on resurfacing existing roads? Northern we have had during the last couple of years, Members Ireland has a policy of resurfacing roads every 25 to in all parts of the House representing all parts of the 30 years, and if the work is done right the first time, the north of England have raised that concern, and we now road will be okay. I understand, however, that some have an opportunity to do so again. roads have had to wait for as long as 68 years before The Yorkshire Post has led a major campaign to being resurfaced. Is that situation unique to Northern highlight the problem, and I praise it for its work. It has Ireland? built a coalition of business leaders, transport bosses The Northern Ireland Executive have said that they and politicians. However, although we have benefited will spend £500 million on creating and improving from many recent projects, the gap is still large; and crucial transport routes from Belfast to other major although we are starting to see a decrease, for which I cities and towns. That shows that they recognise the thank the Government, we need to continue the trend in importance of our transport infrastructure. They also a high-speed way. All that we in the north, and those recognise the importance of our construction sector. involved in the Yorkshire Post campaign, ask is a bit The hon. Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen more fairness. Of course London is the powerhouse in Bradley) mentioned construction, and it is important to economic terms, but extra investment is desperately create apprenticeships and other opportunities within needed in the north. In my constituency, the ring road is that sector. I acknowledge that the Minister does not congested, the access to Leeds airport is poor and the have direct responsibility for that, but does he have any A65 is constantly congested. Members on both sides of input? the House have mentioned the northern hub, and investment I have recently been serving on the Civil Aviation Bill is certainly needed in that. On a recent Select Committee Committee, and that experience served to remind me of visit to Wrexham, I thought I would be green by getting the importance for airports of good road and rail links. the train from Wrexham to Leeds. In a car, that journey That can generate considerable economic benefits. Has can be done in about an hour and a half. It took me four the Minister considered increasing expenditure on projects and a half hours by rail, and I had to board five around not only major airports such as Gatwick and different trains. Heathrow, but provincial airports on the UK mainland? There are major businesses in Wrexham, Liverpool, That would also benefit Belfast City and Belfast Manchester, Leeds, Hull, Newcastle and Sheffield— International airports.

Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): And Goole. Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con): The Government have reduced air passenger transport duty Stuart Andrew: Yes, and Goole. We must do all we for Northern Ireland. Does the hon. Gentleman agree can to ensure that those businesses can connect with that that gives Northern Ireland a fantastic opportunity each other and do business with each other. Connecting to market itself and to develop and promote its aviation with each other is an horrendous ordeal for them at industry and airports? present. Improvements to the northern rail routes have been desperately needed for years. Jim Shannon: I entirely agree. We campaigned for I welcome the fact that the Government have made a that, and it has given a great boost. We are grateful to start. The electrification of the line between Manchester the Government. Problems could arise, however, if airports and Leeds will prove to be a great improvement that in other parts of the UK ask for the same measure. helps us economically. The north was a huge player in We should also consider our ports and ferry links. our industrial past, and we must give it all the resources Will the spending that has been announced benefit any it needs to be able to be a huge player in our industrial of the UK mainland’s ports? If the road links to Liverpool future. Investing in our transport infrastructure will and Stranraer are good, that will be good for Northern help us enormously. The Government have got off to a Ireland. When I visit the United States of America, I good start. I just hope they can do more in the future. am always struck by the ease and speed of road travel. That shows that infrastructure investment can greatly 6.11 pm benefit people and the economy. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I am a Northern We want good infrastructure to be put in place and Ireland MP and transport is a devolved matter, but I the construction industry to benefit—and apprentices have some questions for the Minister. to benefit from that. We believe that better transport infrastructure will be good for regional economies and I welcome the money that will be spent on the transport will make the roads of the United Kingdom safer. infrastructure. Only one person has been injured during the construction of the Olympics stadiums and other works, and no one has been killed. The road and rail 6.17 pm links with the Olympic village and facilities must be James Wharton (Stockton South) (Con): Like many addressed, however. In that regard, does the Minister Members who represent constituencies far away from believe the necessary transport infrastructure is now in London, I spend a lot of time travelling on public place for pedestrians as well as for road and rail users? transport—in my case, over three hours twice a week on In Northern Ireland the spend on road maintenance the train down from Eaglescliffe in Stockton South. I is about £2,800 per kilometre, compared with £12,000 am therefore aware of the importance of transport for in England and £7,500 in Wales. Reconstructing a road regions such as the north-east and the vital role it plays 201 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 202

[James Wharton] to make the argument that we should examine whether a PSO for Teesside should be introduced for the period in our regional economies, so I am very pleased to have until that gap is filled—until HS2 extends further north this opportunity to speak about transport and the economy and benefits the community that I represent, along with and the Select Committee report. those of other hon. Members in the region. The report makes a number of interesting observations I therefore wish to ask the Minister and the Department and recommendations. It recognises the importance of this: in the light of the answers given by Ministers in transport to our economy. That is key at the current 2007 that it is for regional agencies to make a PSO time, when driving economic growth is so vital. It also request and in the light of the confirmation given in stresses the importance of our international gateways, 2010 that no such request had been made, what would both airports and ports. The Government must focus happen if the local enterprise partnership requested a on those gateways and thereby maximise the economic PSO for Teesside airport? A single LEP now covers the benefits to the country. entire airport site, even though it is in a number of Airports are important not only as international hubs, constituencies, so if such a request were made, supported but as regional hubs. Our regional airports are very by local councils, business leaders and, no doubt, hon. important to local economies across the UK. In the Members, would the Government examine it? Will they north-east, we have Newcastle airport and Teesside consider that option? Will they constructively work airport. The latter lies partly in my constituency and with me and others to deliver it, so that the future of partly in that of the hon. Member for Sedgefield (Phil this important airport, which has so much potential to Wilson), while a small part also lies in the constituency be a driver for our regional economy, can not only be of the hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex secured in the long term, but improved to deliver a Cunningham). Recently, it has been discussed in the better service to my constituents? That would allow my House on several occasions, as it has faced a challenging weekly journeys down to London and back up to my time of late. There has now been good news, however. It constituency to be shortened somewhat from the three has been bought by Peel, a company that was involved and a bit hours they take today. I look forward to the previously. It has made clear its commitment to run Minister’s comments and would be grateful for confirmation Teesside airport as a successful passenger airport. That on that point, so that I can pursue the matter with the is precisely what people in communities across Teesside, LEP. I hope that a constructive way forward can be the wider north-east area and north Yorkshire who use found for this important regional asset. and rely on its services want. In a Civil Aviation Bill debate I raised this topic and 6.22 pm asked whether the Government could use the licensing Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): It is always a conditions they apply to major strategic airports to pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for require them to retain slots for Teesside. In this debate, I Stockton South (James Wharton). As a member of the shall explore another possible means by which to address Select Committee on Transport, I have a great interest the problem: the public service obligation. Will the in all things transport-related, from aviation and road Minister share his thoughts on the possibility of using to rail and shipping. A 21st-century Britain needs a that? Under EU Council regulation 2408/92, the Republic 21st-century pragmatic transport strategy. Although of Ireland established public service obligations between politics is usually, and regrettably, played as a short-term Dublin and Kerry, Galway, Sligo, Knock, Donegal and game, transport strategies and infrastructure projects Londonderry commencing in 2008. This can be done; it require a steady long-term commitment. It is rarely is quite possible for a Government with the right strategic possible for such projects to deliver results within a view to consider the needs of regional airports and, Parliament or two, but that fact should enable us to take within existing EU regulations, establish PSOs that can party politics out of the mix and unite across this protect them and enable them to prosper. House on a common goal to deliver a long-term, all- In December 2007, a transport Minister said in answer encompassing transport plan. to a parliamentary question that it was for regional On a wider note, I should stress that my interest in bodies to apply for a PSO for Teesside airport. In transport policy is not born simply of my serving on the February 2010, in a reply to Lord Bates, the relevant Transport Committee; it also comes from a far more Minister in the other place confirmed that no application regional and local perspective. On a regional level, as a had been received at that time from the regional Yorkshire MP I know that transport links play a vital development agency, One North East. That failure by role in bridging the north-south economic divide, which the RDA to engage constructively in finding a way to previous Governments have failed to address. This issue protect important routes between the north-east and is vital to providing a sustainable long-term economic the capital reflects some of the challenges that Teesside recovery for our country and for the Yorkshire region. airport faces today. We have an opportunity to revisit On a more local level, congestion and gridlock has an whether a PSO should be given to Teesside airport. impact on the daily lives of my constituents. However, it High speed 2 is not quite set to come up to the is not just local households who struggle with such north-east yet, although we hope it will do so one day, congestion, as businesses are being hit hard, too. The as it is an important infrastructure investment that the York northern ring road and the A64 act as a brake on Government are committed to making. They have local economic growth, bringing increasing congestion, recognised the economic benefits that reduced travel more accidents and costly delays. As the Transport times between the capital and the regions can bring. Committee’s second recommendation in its “Transport Teesside falls just outside the envelope that will benefit and the economy” report outlined, investment in this from HS2, and I suspect that other hon. Members will regard is “a high priority” so that we can support agree with me when I say that we have the opportunity economic growth, locally and nationally. 203 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 204

Travelling through or around the city of York can be Julian Sturdy: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. an extremely time-consuming exercise. York’s infrastructure I will touch on regional airports if I am able to do so, is often seen as a nuisance, but the sad reality is that it but he rightly says that there is some slack there. That is could get a lot worse, and rather quickly too. The City certainly the case at Birmingham, as the Transport of York council’s draft local development plan contains Committee has seen on some of its visits. some stark warning signs. It states that As developing nations hold the key to global economic “congestion delay time across the network could triple by 2026” recovery, it seems ridiculous to suggest that Britain’s and that creaking aviation capacity cannot or should not be expanded. I share the Transport Committee’s concern “even with all reasonably practical and deliverable transport that the Government’s aviation strategy to date has investments in place, congestion delay across the network will double by 2026.” been limited. However, many different ways to improve this situation exist and I am pleased that the Government Such a frank and honest assessment is frightening. The are consulting on how to increase aviation capacity in link between transport infrastructure and economic the south-east. Alongside the consultation, we must growth is undisputable, so my fear for York and for the look again at regional airports, as a number of Members rest of the country is that economic growth over the next have mentioned. Such aviation links to road and, decades will become increasingly choked by the outdated increasingly, rail are hugely significant and connectivity infrastructure. We may want companies and businesses must be the buzz word in this subject. to invest for the long-term future in northern cities such As remarkable and impressive as our railways are, as York, but they will require certainty that there is a there is no denying that many parts of them are in need long-term plan in place to deal with congestion—a of an upgrade, and I am truly grateful to the Government long-term plan that they can buy into. for funding the electrification of the trans-Pennine line between Manchester and York. That is exactly the sort Geraint Davies: In 2014, we will have the centenary of of upgrade that will improve links and productivity Dylan Thomas’s birth in Swansea, and we are looking between Manchester, Leeds and York, with positive forward to massive tourism investment as a result. Does consequences for the businesses located within and the hon. Gentleman agree that it is important that among those three key northern cities, as well as play a business and the people managing these things know in key role in tackling the north-south divide. advance that the electrification of lines will take place, I appreciate that I have touched on a number of for instance between Cardiff and Swansea, so that they different issues, but that is both the beauty and the can plan ahead and business has good time to make difficulty of transport. If I had more time, I would that inward investment? probably go further. I hope that I am not being too optimistic in saying that I truly welcome the Government’s Julian Sturdy: Absolutely. Tourism is also a key element approach. Electrification, high-speed rail, the northern in York’s local economy and the congestion is having an hub—although I recognise that we need the whole thing impact on the tourism level in the city. Sadly, my local on the northern hub—and the £1.4 billion for roads, to authority in York would rather tinker with small-scale name but a few aspects, are positive steps in the right schemes than take the difficult long-term decisions that direction. I must also commend the Department for will safeguard the city’s economic future. As I mentioned Transport for doing so much while registering an at the outset, we need a fearless transport strategy. We underspend in its budget. More for less is a commendable need a long-term approach to investment at a national message for this Government to send out and I for one level and implementation locally. The Government’s am most impressed by the Transport team. £3 billion of capital for local road projects outside London, to be spread over the next four years, is therefore 6.31 pm a welcome starting point, but is that sum part of a long-term strategy for our roads? The crux of road Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con): There is a reason investment is long-term, joined-up thinking. why so many hon. Members and so many of my hon. Friends are queuing up to speak in this debate. We all I shall now discuss another form of transport. We recognise the hugely important role and value of a good have to tackle aviation issues seriously, and we face two transport system in and to our constituencies and therefore problems. Airport capacity in and around London is at the nation as a whole. Indeed, a good public transport breaking point. We should be enormously proud that system and a good transport system are the arteries of our capital city has remained resilient over a number of economic life. I am no exception to those hon. Members years, maintaining its position as the best place in the on both sides of the House who so often come together world to do business. Although international politics and to support such projects, putting aside our party political powers have changed, London has remained at the top differences. table, with a positive knock-on effect for the rest of the I do not want to repeat everything that has been UK. However, if we refuse to expand our capacity, we said by the hon. Member for Leicester South (Jonathan risk throwing away our the capital’s crown and, again, Ashworth), but I agree with him very much and I hope that our economy, both nationally and locally, will suffer. the Government will take on board the arguments that will, without doubt, be made by many Members on behalf Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): Does my hon. Friend of all of us on that route up to Sheffield from London agree that some of the slack that exists in regional —the midland main line route. We desperately want it airports could be used to deal with the shortage of to be improved and hope that we will see electrification, capacity at Heathrow? I am thinking, in particular, of which will benefit both our region and our area. It has Birmingham airport, which is just 90 miles away from been estimated that the wider economic area would Heathrow. benefit by £400 million if that line were improved. 205 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 206

[Anna Soubry] economies, we do things in the right way. It is right and proper that the Government are determined to invest in I am grateful to the Government for saying that after our infrastructure, as that is without doubt the best way many years—more than I would care to remember, to make progress in our economy. because it would give a real indication of my age, but people have been asking for this for decades—the A453, the major route from the M1 into Nottingham city, will 6.36 pm be improved. I am so grateful that the Government have David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): I, too, finally given the go ahead and hope that they will now congratulate the Select Committee on their coherent give us all a date for when that road will be widened. report and I want to focus on one aspect of it, which is Anybody who has travelled along the A46 will know the issue of regional imbalances in spend and how they and appreciate what a first-class modern road can deliver, happen, and to give some of my thoughts on how we benefiting not only the motorists but our quality of life can avoid them. Those thoughts are about the appraisal and economic growth. mechanisms used in the Department for Transport and I do not want to speak for too long and I do not wish the Treasury, the approach to appraisal and the Treasury to be rude, but I will not take any interventions, because Green Book. I know that many Members want to speak. Let me add Let us get the facts out of the way first. Table 2 of the one point. It is imperative that when we improve our Committee’s report makes it clear that in the period transport system we work as much as we possibly can under review—2008-09—one region received substantially with the people who will benefit from it, or we will find more funding than any other, and that was London. In that their lives are hugely disrupted. The tram route is broad terms, London received about two or three times an example of that. The Minister will be familiar with more per head than the English regions. That matters as the debate in my part of Nottinghamshire about the billions of pounds of capital spend generate high-quality tram route, which will now come out of Nottingham private sector jobs that translate, through the power of and up to Toton in my constituency. The proposal has the economic multiplier, into prosperity. The effect is been very controversial because of the route. Broxtowe transformative. Conservatives were always opposed to it, and I am I cannot be the only Member of the House who proud to have been part of their campaign. I know that thinks that it is odd that under the previous Government, the arguments have been well rehearsed, but now that in 2009, the discrepancy in gross value added per head work has started, we are seeing why there was such between London and the English regions doubled at a opposition. It has led to considerable disruption—and time when that capital spending was being poured into there will be more—to the lives of ordinary people London. That discrepancy by a factor of two between through the taking of gardens, the demolition of homes the capital city and other parts of the country does not and so on. In particular, at the terminus of that route, exist in any other European country; it is unique to Britain. very vulnerable green-belt land has been made into a housing development area. When we consider such I had hoped that after the election we would get all schemes, we must look at the broader issues and the fact that sorted out with the new Government, and I was that there might sometimes be detrimental and harmful confident that serious attempts would be made to use consequences for people who live on the route or at the the power of capital spending to fix the north-south end of it, and who want to protect their green belt. We divide. I was disappointed, like others who have already have seen that in Toton, where an application has been spoken, to see that in the autumn statement 84% of the made for some 800 homes on green-belt land, largely £30 billion accelerated capital spend was allocated to based on the fact that there will be a terminus at Toton. London. Let me put it in context: that is £2,731 per head in London compared with £150 per head in my Unfortunately, we must always be careful when we region, the north-west, and £5 per head in the north-east. consider how to finance some routes and extensions to I have heard Ministers talk about and challenge those public transport. Let me take the tram as an example, figures and I would like the Minister to address that although I will not rehearse the many arguments about specific point. such agreements and whether there is a bias towards tram routes over bus routes. Nottingham city council—the The difference in spend is partly but not entirely to do hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood) with Crossrail, Thameslink and the underground, but might address this in her speech—has introduced a even after those projects are removed from consideration, workplace parking levy to finance the two new routes. London and the south-east still receive approximately In my view, that will have a profoundly bad effect on the double what is received in the north. This is very serious very businesses that would otherwise benefit from such and makes a mockery of our attempts to use the regional an extension of good public transport. It is all about growth fund, and previously the regional development getting that balance right, because in Nottingham ordinary agencies, to redress that balance. If we put capital spend workers at many businesses, especially large ones such of that quantity into one part of the country in that as Boots in my constituency, will have to pay up to way, then giving £1 billion here and £1 billion there in £300 a year so that they can travel to work when they regional spend does not make much of a difference. I have no alternative but to use their car because of the am not a conspiracy theorist: I do not think that the inadequacies of the public transport system. Perhaps Opposition, when they were in government, or my own ironically, many of those workers will not be able to use Government have done that on purpose. There is a the very tram that their parking levy will fund. That deeper issue here—a systematic bias that drives these does not seem right or fair. decisions—and it is to do with the method of appraisal. It is a question of balance. When we take all matters As far as I can make out, the mechanism that the into consideration, bearing in mind that better public Department for Transport uses—the new approach to transport provides a wonderful opportunity to fuel our appraisal—leans heavily on a system of multiplying 207 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 208 small, incremental changes by the number of people around the midlands, and an efficient road network was involved to generate the business case. The system vital to our operation. My business was based in Rugby, specifically is not allowed to take into account wider because that is my home town, but I often told people it economic benefits. The consequence of that appraisal was based there because I looked at the UK and chose mechanism, which has been used both by the previous Rugby as the best possible place for a distribution Government and by this Government, is that there is a business. We have the M1 taking us north to Leicester, bias towards the parts of the country that are most Nottingham and Derby and taking us south to congested and where the greatest number of people will Northampton, Milton Keynes and London; we have benefit from relatively small changes in journey times to the M6 taking us west to Birmingham and the west create a huge economic benefit. As a consequence of midlands conurbation; we have the A14 taking us to the that system, resources for projects are continually allocated east midlands, Kettering and Corby; and we have the to one part of the country. A46 taking us south-west to Stratford-upon-Avon and the Cotswolds. The examples I am about to provide of Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): I welcome the fact the importance of the road network could apply to that the hon. Gentleman has brought to the House’s hundreds of thousands of businesses across the UK. attention the disparities with proposed investment packages My business provided a delivery service, and the in transport. Ministers will try to argue this away but measure of our performance was the number of deliveries they cannot argue away the extent of the disparity when our vehicle was able to make during the working day. more than £2,500 per head of population is being spent The more deliveries it made, the better and more efficient in the south-east compared with just a fiver in the my business. That was affected by the efficiency of our north-east. route planning and by how well the road network was working—by the physical layout of the roads, the David Mowat: The hon. Gentleman echoes the point opportunities to use new roads and bypasses to avoid I am making. Just to take the politics out of it, let me bottlenecks, and any hold-ups that were occurring. We point out that broadly the same thing happened under sold to our customers with a promise of, “Order today, the previous Government, so we go back to my previous delivery tomorrow,” in order to minimise stockholding. point: something systemic is happening here in the way Our ability to honour that promise depended on the that projects are appraised within the Department for efficiency of the road network and we prepared our Transport. I do not believe that either the previous loads according to known road conditions. We would Labour Government or the current Government wished know about big contraflows and closures and we might that to be the out-turn. Frankly, the resulting disparity adjust the load on a given vehicle accordingly. Having is not even very good for London, because the consequence advance notice of closures and delays is important to of having a mechanism that removes congestion is to such businesses, and I know that the DFT has improved enable further congestion to gravitate towards our capital its performance in that area. When a van was out for city and we start all over again. Enough is enough— longer or was not able to make its deliveries, we incurred Ministers have to challenge the appraisal mechanism. overtime payments to staff. If a customer did not receive I have thought about how the system could work and their goods on the allocated day, we had to load the I shall leave the Minister with my suggestion. We should goods on to an additional vehicle at an additional cost allocate capital budgets by region as the starting point to the business that could not be recovered from the for where money is spent. Then we would not get the customer. issue with the north-east getting £5 a head while London gets £2,700. I understand that one risk of such a system I also employed a team of sales people who would go would be sub-optimisation and that there is a need to out and visit customers. Again, the more calls they manage cross-regional projects, but that could be done— could make the better, and the cost to my business of an other organisations do things of that nature. It clearly is expensive executive sitting in a car in a motorway traffic not satisfactory for things to carry on as they are. I jam was a significant burden. Both the delivery aspect would like the Minister to give his view on why the of my business and the sales team were affected by appraisal mechanisms used by the Department continue congestion, which can be caused by overrunning works, to give the answers they do. the over-zealous placement of cones, unnecessary lane closures when no work appears to be taking place and extended motorway closures after incidents. I acknowledge 6.43 pm that the Department has undertaken work to reduce Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): It is a great pleasure to such situations, but there are still massive frustrations follow the very thoughtful contribution of my hon. to the road user and effects on the efficiency of businesses. Friend the Member for Warrington South (David Mowat). It is important to consider the contribution that the It is not the first time I have followed him. I first did so distribution, haulage and logistics sector makes to the 45 years ago when we were both at school in my home UK economy.It is estimated to be worth about £10.7 billion town of Rugby. and to employ about 293,000 people. In 2009, the Road I am pleased that the Select Committee noted the Haulage Association estimated, in giving evidence to importance of investment in the transport system as a the Transport Committee, that driver for growth. As a Member for a constituency in the centre of England, where warehousing, haulage and “a UK-based haulier pays around £25,000 in fuel duty each year logistics businesses are a key part of our local economy, for a typical articulated HGV, amounting to some £2 billion per annum for all lorries in the UK.” I shall focus on the road networks and links of which they take advantage. First, let me say a few words about More recent calculations suggest that the industry’s my role before I arrived here. I was the owner of a annual contribution in fuel duty has risen to as much as business involved in the distribution of catering goods £4.57 billion. 209 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 210

[Mark Pawsey] We have also been talking about regional development agencies. I cannot think why anyone would want to The Government have announced a total of £3 billion bring RDAs back, but apparently some do. The a year of spending on new strategic road schemes up to Government have moved to making sure that local 2015. In the current spending period, they will receive authorities work together. A key aim of the Localism £14 billion in income while they are spending £3 billion Act 2011 is to foster a duty to co-operate. We need that on new road networks, so there is a massive surplus to co-operation between local authorities so that they the Exchequer that is available to the Government to think strategically when they are planning anything to spend on other services. What does the logistics industry do with transport and economics. The two go hand in need to help it to generate that income? It needs investment hand, as do the needs of local authorities when transport in the road network, so I am pleased that that is is considered. The LEPs have already been celebrated in mentioned in recommendation 2 of the Select Committee’s the debate—again, quite right too. They too have to report. It also needs the motorways to be kept free. work together in the interests of good strategic planning. Blockages and lane closures are not only frustrating but Speaking in more general terms, we need infrastructure incur a substantial cost. I note that the Select Committee’s that works and encourages communication. That is why report, “Out of the jam: reducing congestion on our I am a supporter of HS2. It does not go through my roads”, said that jams could cost the UK economy constituency, but even if it went nearby, I would still £24 billion a year by 2025. support it because it is right that we start to connect our This has been a very valuable debate. My constituency big cities. We do not need to look very far on the will benefit from the £3 billion allocated to capital continent or beyond to see that good connections bring spend on road networks over the next four years and we about economic growth and more economic activity, so are delighted that many projects, including the one at we need to promote such investment. Crucial to the Catthorpe M1-M6 junction, are going ahead. All infrastructure is the certainty that it gives the private that work together will enable us to generate economic sector, encouraging it to add further investment. If we growth over the coming years. have a plan that people understand and recognise is a good plan, we should also attract private investment in our transport infrastructure. That is an important feature 6.49 pm of the case for linking economics and transport policy. Finally, I shall say a few words about airports and Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): It is a great honour ports. I note from The Economist that most people live to speak in the debate, bringing up the rear, as I often within two hours’ drive of at least two airports, so do. I am a firm believer in the link between good clearly we have plenty of airports. It is important that transport infrastructure and economic development. It they are flexible and able to link up the main hubs. The is critical and one does not have to go far in this country fact that we have so many airports is good for industry, to find proof of that. As Michael Portillo notes in his because aviation development is an extremely important excellent programme about trains, they helped to part of manufacturing and engineering. We need to develop the south-west and other parts of Britain, and make that case more forcefully. that is also true of Europe. Let us understand and I have a small port in my constituency, Sharpness, accept that. The great news is that the Government which handles 600,000 tonnes of bulk material. That accept it; that is why they are investing so much, and activity brings more activity and economic investment, quite right too. so I am pleased that the infrastructure which supports I am pleased to say that in my constituency, Stroud, that port is in place. We could improve it, but the fact £45 million is being invested in the redoubling of a that we have such a port in my constituency is good critical line between Kemble and Swindon, so that we news. Any other hon. Member with a port, small though can radically cut the journey time and increase the it may be, should support it because it is good for number of trains on the track. That great news is business. signalling to people in and around Stroud that it is a In summary, let us never forget that transport and place to do business, more business and better business. economics often go together, and the Government are That is the kind of delivery that the Government are putting their money behind that. already providing, and I thank them for it. The previous speaker, my hon. Friend the Member for Rugby (Mark Pawsey), spoke about logistics, which 6.55 pm is an important subject. I too intend to speak about logistics in the context of the supply chains for manufacturing Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): I welcome and engineering. We have complex supply chains in this the opportunity to debate the Select Committee’s report country, which are becoming more complex as the weeks on transport and the economy. It has given many hon. and months go by because many firms are manufacturing Members the chance to raise constituency concerns, to order and production is ever more dependent on which I hope the Minister will respond to when he sums supplies from further afield. We need good infrastructure up. to support a complex supply chain. Many speakers have I was going to say that it was noticeable that almost emphasised the importance of Government working all the speakers in the debate were MPs representing together. They do work together. The Department for towns, cities and rural areas in the north, but then we Business, Innovation and Skills is focusing on supply had contributions from the hon. Members for Rugby chains, and it is good that the Department for Transport (Mark Pawsey) and for Stroud (Neil Carmichael), which is providing the infrastructure needed to develop good broke the flow somewhat. None the less, I am sure the supply chains, nurture and improve them. Minister will want to reflect on the implications for 211 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 212

Government policy of the concerns expressed by northern Labour would put working people first by taking on MPs and the fact that good transport links are demanded the vested interests. We would not have given back to by the north. train companies the right to fiddle the fare cap, so that The Select Committee report looks at the big picture when we said that fare rises would be limited to inflation and asks some searching questions of the Government, plus 1%, the public would know that that was the which the Minister must answer. At the heart of the maximum rise they would face at the ticket office. We report is the Committee’s conclusion that Ministers would also have been able to bring forward the much-needed have failed to explain how their decisions on investment electrification of the midland main line that, as my hon. in transport will deliver the economic growth and Friend the Member for Leicester South (Jonathan rebalancing they say are needed. Of course that could Ashworth) and my neighbour, the hon. Member for be a failure of communication, but I think it is a failure Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), who is no longer in her place, arising from the absence of any strategy or joined-up pointed out, is so important to improving connectivity thinking from this Government. between London, Northamptonshire and four of the largest cities in the country: Derby, Leicester, Sheffield People throughout the country know that the biggest and, of course, my own city of Nottingham. We would and most pressing problem we face is the lack of jobs have started the electrification of the great western and growth. There are 2.7 million people on the dole—the main line, but we would have gone right through to highest number for 17 years—representing a huge cost Swansea, rather than stop at Cardiff. to the economy in benefit payments and lost tax, a huge cost to the individuals affected and their families, and a cost to their local communities, many of which, especially The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport in the north, are all too aware of the long-term scarring (Norman Baker): The hon. Lady is busy telling us about effects of unemployment. The Government should have all these spending commitments, but she is also saying a laser-like focus on using every aspect of policy to turn that she would make £6 billion of cuts, so will she things around by creating jobs, supporting industry and identify where those cuts would be made? getting our economy moving. Transport should have a key role to play, but time and Lilian Greenwood: I will not go through all the cuts again we have seen this Government take decisions that right at this moment, but I have already said that we send us in the opposite direction. It is not just that they would not have cut £759 million from the rail budget— have cut spending too far and too fast, but that they [Interruption.] Well, the Minister has put forward have made the wrong choices. Labour has not opposed £528 million-worth of savings from the rail industry in £6 billion of difficult and painful cuts to the transport his departmental plans, and we would not have opposed budget—two thirds of the cuts proposed by Ministers—but that. We would happily find the same efficiencies that he we would have made different decisions about how to says he would find, such as the £245 million from spend the remaining money to protect passengers and Crossrail. We certainly agree that where there are efficiencies deliver the maximum benefit to our economy. Labour to be found, they should be found. I could go through would have protected additional investment in the rail his entire departmental budget, but that would detract and road network as part of a five-point plan for somewhat from the debate. I am happy to do that growth and jobs. another time. Under Labour, there would not have been a £680 million Mr Leech: From what the hon. Lady has said, a cut in local transport funding, which is leading to a Labour Government would have been forced to cut Beeching-style cull of our bus network. The Campaign capital spending even further. for Better Transport estimates that one in five supported bus services have been scrapped. Whole communities Lilian Greenwood: No, I think the hon. Gentleman have been left isolated, without access to public transport, misunderstands me. As I said, we have not opposed and fares are rising on those services that remain. £6 billion of difficult cuts to the transport budget, Under Labour, three quarters of local authorities would whether that is capital or revenue funding, but we not be reviewing school transport provision, with many would have maintained a further £3 billion and we families being asked to pay more just to get their would have spent it in different ways, as I will set out. children to school. That increasing problem was rightly We would have protected £500 million for road schemes highlighted by the hon. Member for Staffordshire vital to economic growth, providing a much-needed Moorlands (Karen Bradley) in her wide-ranging speech boost to our construction industry. We would have about the challenges facing her rural constituency. As made sure the £435 million needed for essential road my knowledge of Staffordshire Moorlands was previously maintenance went ahead, saving the taxpayer money in limited to Alton Towers, I now know a lot more about it. the long term, according to the National Audit Office. Time and again the Government have chosen policies Labour would not have cut £759 million from the rail that have a disproportionate impact on the very people budget; we would have put passengers first and tackled who need their help, particularly in these austere times. affordability. We would not have allowed the private My hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) train operating companies to boost their profits with made that point clearly and passionately. He focused in eye-watering fare rises of up to 11% this January, 5% more particular on the impact of bus cuts on villages in his than the RPI plus 1% that the Government told passengers constituency and the real problem that that is creating they could expect, which means that some people are not only for people seeking work, but for those trying to spending more on their fare to work than they do on stay in their jobs. The unemployed, 64% of whom do their mortgage or rent. That is not helping to make not have access to a car, need buses to get to interviews work pay; it is just adding to the cost-of-living crisis and jobs. How can they get back into work if there is no that households are already facing. bus or the fare is unaffordable? What about young 213 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 214

[Lilian Greenwood] missed a trick: why are they legislating only for the first phase of the new high-speed line, from London to people, 72% of whom rely on buses to get to college? Birmingham, when they could have given a real boost How can they stay in education or training to get the to cities in the north by taking the whole Y route qualifications they need for the future if there is no bus forward as one project, opening up the possibility of or the fare is unaffordable? beginning construction in the north and the south and Labour would be prepared to maintain investment in accelerating the benefits north of Birmingham? I hope our much-needed bus services, but it would not be a that the Minister will respond to the pleas from his hon. blank cheque; we want something for something. We Friend the Member for Manchester, Withington would reverse the cut to the bus service operators grant, (Mr Leech), who asked for faster progress on HS2 to but in return we would expect the bus companies to help Manchester and other northern cities. work with us to deliver a concessionary fares scheme for Labour has offered to work on the same cross-party 16 to 18-year-olds in education or training. Many people basis to tackle the urgent need for extra capacity at would like to get on their bicycles because it is not only Britain’s airports. The Government’s failure to set out a good way to protect the environment, but a cheap way any strategy for aviation, or even a plan to do so by the to get about. We would not only protect the road safety end of this Parliament, is putting jobs and growth at budget, but reallocate funding to improve cycling risk across the country.Regional airports have an important infrastructure and give people the confidence they need role to play. The hon. Member for Stockton South to use their bicycle. (James Wharton) mentioned Durham Tees Valley airport, Even for those people who do have access to a car, and I know that my hon. Friend the Member for the situation is little better under this Government. The Sedgefield has led a local campaign on behalf of the Chancellor’s decision to increase VAT to 20%, just airport, so Members on both sides of the House will when global oil prices had taken the cost of filling the look forward to the Minister’s response to that call for tank to record levels, is a real drain on household Government support. budgets, especially in rural areas. That is why a temporary cut in VAT back down to 17.5% is a vital part of Phil Wilson: The campaign in the area is a cross-party Labour’s plan for jobs and growth. It would cut the campaign. We have already arranged a meeting with the price of a tank of petrol by around £1.35 and put Minister of State on 24 April to discuss the public money into people’s pockets. service obligation and the way forward. One of the The Government claim that one of their primary reasons why One North East did not apply for a PSO objectives is to rebalance the economy, including by was the cost that involved, and I am concerned about reducing the north-south divide. I am not sure whether asking the LEP to do that. If One North East did not Derby considers itself to be in the north—Derbyshire have the money, I am sure that the LEP will not. I think always feels reassuringly like the north to me—but I do that we need to be a little more sophisticated in how we not think that the Government’s claims to be rebalancing raise money to go ahead with this. the economy away from reliance on financial services and towards manufacturing ring true with voters in Lilian Greenwood: I thank my hon. Friend for that Derby. The decision to award the Thameslink contract clarification. He is quite right that one of the effects of to Siemens, which will build the trains in Germany, is a scrapping our regional development agencies has been real kick in the teeth for Bombardier, the only company to make co-ordination more difficult. that designs, manufactures and assembles trains in the The Government’s call for airports to be “better not UK. That decision put the whole future of UK train bigger” is not a policy but a slogan, and the blanket ban manufacturing at risk, along with thousands of highly on expansion in the south-east makes no sense, but that skilled engineering jobs not only in Derby but across does not mean any backing down from our commitment the midlands. to tackle climate change. Any new capacity must go I welcome the Government’s admission that they got hand in hand with tougher targets to reduce carbon that wrong and their decision to amend the tendering emissions from aviation. I hope that the Minister will process for Crossrail, but why, instead of spending take forward that work on a cross-party basis. months saying that they could do nothing about the Tackling climate change is not just a challenge, but a process for Thameslink, did they not act to protect huge opportunity for British business, so it is deeply 1,400 jobs at Bombardier? Having delayed the project disappointing that Ministers have reversed their by a year, Ministers had the time and opportunity to commitment to support the development of a national restart the procurement process and ensure that wider public recharging network for lower-emission vehicles, socio-economic factors could be taken into consideration. instead leaving the roll-out of recharging infrastructure They have proved that today. entirely to the private sector. That is a real missed In response to the Transport Committee’s call on the opportunity when such cars could and should be a Government to explain how their policies will achieve growing industry. economic growth and tackle regional disparities, the Families throughout the country are paying the price Department cites the example of HS2. There is cross-party for the global financial crisis of four years ago, and consensus that high-speed rail is the right way to deliver whoever was in power would have had to make tough greater capacity and reduce journey times between our decisions on spending, but that is why it is so important major cities. By linking to the existing east and west that every penny the Government spend delivers on coast main lines, high-speed services will serve cities their overall objectives, and that in turn is why Transport including not only Manchester, Sheffield and Leeds, but Ministers are failing: they simply do not have a strategy Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Liverpool, York and to address needs of the country. Not only are they Durham. Once again, however, the Government have cutting too far, too fast, but they are making the wrong 215 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 216 decisions—the wrong decisions to create the jobs that expenditure, and completely out of touch with the the economy so desperately needs, the wrong decisions economic situation in which we as a nation find ourselves. to get people back into work and to support young It was cloud cuckoo land economics. people in education and training, the wrong decisions to support British businesses, and the wrong decisions Lilian Greenwood: As I made clear in my contribution, to ease the cost of living for hard-working families. we have identified £6 billion of cuts as set out in the It does not have to be that way. Labour would make Minister’s budget, with which we agree. I was talking tough decisions—we accept that there have to be significant about the areas where we would not cut but change the cuts in spending—but we would ensure that all our direction of expenditure in order to protect passengers efforts were focused on getting the economy moving and to stimulate economic growth and jobs. That is again and on getting people into work. That is the only exactly what I set out, and I would be more than happy way to cut the deficit and we would ensure that every to discuss with him exactly where the cuts would be penny spent on transport served that purpose. made.

Norman Baker: I am delighted to hear that, because 7.11 pm my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport has written to the hon. Lady’s boss, the hon. Member (Norman Baker): I am pleased to respond to this debate, for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle), the shadow and I welcome the generally constructive comments Transport Secretary, asking for details of the £6 billion from Members on both sides of the House. I shall try to of cuts, and so far no answer has been forthcoming. answer as many points as I can in the 15 or so minutes Our growth review package will deliver £1 billion of allotted to me. new investment by Network Rail, more than £1 billion The coalition Government’s vision is for a transport to the strategic road network and £500 million for local system that boosts growth and cuts carbon. By investing schemes and, in particular, for schemes that can make in transport that links people with the workplace and the earliest possible contribution to economic recovery. goods with the marketplace, we are building a more We recognise that spending is one thing but that efficient and effective transport network that is an engine spending wisely is something else, so we are determined for economic recovery and for creating jobs; and by to ensure that every pound of public money invested in investing in projects that promote green growth and our transport system is made to count. That is why, help people to make more sustainable travel decisions although our rail investment programme is the largest we can help to build a more balanced, low-carbon and most ambitious since the Victorian era, we are economy that is essential for our future productivity. I committed to reforming the rail industry in order to stress, however, that there is not an either/or choice reduce costs significantly and to improve efficiency. between building a stable and strong economy and Members have today welcomed the electrification of safeguarding the environment: cutting carbon and the north trans-Pennine rail route between Manchester, generating growth are two sides of the same coin. Both York and Leeds, which is part of the northern hub are essential objectives that transport must deliver, and project, as well as other major investment processes. that is precisely what we are delivering. The Chair of the Transport Committee referred in On the question of investment, we are pleased that her opening remarks to her view that an explicit transport the Transport Committee welcomed the additional funding strategy was missing, but with respect I do not accept for transport which was announced in the autumn that point. She made it to the Secretary of State for statement and in the growth review—and which was Transport on 19 October 2011, when my right hon. significantly higher than many people expected. The Friend gave evidence, and I refer the hon. Lady to her announcement was not only a clear demonstration of own question, Q16, from that session. The Transport the coalition’s commitment to growth, but a demonstration Secretary said: of our belief that improving transport infrastructure “To all intents and purposes, …what you will end up with…the can be among the most effective ways to drive our aviation framework…the rail reform… the work being undertaken economy forward. by Alan Cook to look at the Highways Agency” The hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian is what will produce, certainly for the medium term, a Greenwood) spoke on behalf of the Opposition in a strategy. When the Committee looks at the rail reform contribution that I found astonishing and lacking in and aviation papers, which will both be out shortly, the some reality. She referred to allegedly wrong choices, Chair will see that. If she is making the point that we but by wrong choices I wonder whether she is referring need to look over the longer term, say over 40 or to the A453 improvement in Nottingham, or the ring-road 50 years, she is making a fair point, which the Government improvements in Nottingham, or the station improvements will take on board. in Nottingham, the tram extension in Nottingham, or the other projects that we have been taking forward Mrs Ellman: The fact is that currently there is neither throughout the country—in the north and the south—on a rail strategy paper nor an aviation paper. They are behalf of the Government. both awaited. The hon. Lady started by saying that she would make £6 billion of spending cuts, but in fact all we had were Norman Baker: I agree, and we inherited that position indications of further expenditure to which the Opposition from the previous Government, but I have already said are committed: expenditure on a midland main line, on that the rail reform and aviation papers are both due electrification to Swansea, on buses, on cycling and on very shortly, and I hope that the Committee will do its road safety. It seems as if the Opposition have learned usual good job of examining the documents and making nothing. It was another charter for a great wodge of comments to the Government following its analysis. 217 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 218

[Norman Baker] announced in the 2010 spending review, 63% by value is in the north and midlands and 40% is in the north My hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South alone. The spend in the autumn statement for the local (David Mowat) was concerned about the transport authority majors totals over £3 billion of regional spending, business case, but my hon. Friend the Member for of which 35% is in the north-east, north-west, and Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond), who is no longer in Yorkshire and the Humber, 27% is in the west and east his place, made the point that we have refreshed the midlands, and only 24% is in London and the south-east. transport business case, and we also have the departmental I therefore do not recognise or accept the figures in the plan for transport, which sets out our priorities in the IPPR report. short term. The transport business case does include wider aspects of economic development, which my hon. Angela Smith: The Passenger Transport Executive Friend the Member for Warrington South was concerned Group has made it clear that there appears to be no about, so the Government have now put in place a wide basis for the figures given by the DFT to the Select -ranging formula to ensure that those essential points Committee, which are reflected in its report. Will the are captured in our assessment of individual transport Minister undertake to give a full written explanation of projects. the basis of the figures that the DFT is using? The hon. Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) referred to declining rural bus services, a point that he had made Norman Baker: The figures in the IPPR report need before, but 78% of bus services are commercially run by to be questioned rather than the Department’s figures. commercial operators and are therefore not under the In her speech, the hon. Lady accused the Government Government’s control, as he will appreciate. They have of a lack of transparency, but that is completely wrong. been affected only by the BSOG reduction, of which we There is now more transparency and consistency in gave 18 months’ notice, unlike what happened in Wales decision making than there was under previous and Scotland, where bus companies were given almost Governments. For example, we have published the internal no notice. assessments of all 41 approved local authority majors development pool schemes. We published details of the Lilian Greenwood: Will the Minister give way? Highways Agency’s schemes at the 2010 spending review. That is a commitment the Under-Secretary of State for Norman Baker: I shall make some progress, if I may. Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel The performance of local councils across the country Hempstead (Mike Penning), made and took through at varies enormously in respect of buses. If the hon. the time. Every six months, we publish value for money Gentleman has had significant cuts in Durham, he must data on all decisions. consider other areas, such as East Riding and so on, where there have been far fewer cuts. Local councils Angela Smith indicated dissent. have responded in rather different ways to the difficult economic situation they find themselves in, and it is not Norman Baker: There is no point in the hon. Lady fair simply to blame the Government for that. He needs shaking her head—these are the facts. We have also to look at his local council and at the decisions it has published a whole lot of transparency data sets that made in its area. were previously kept secret. We have a very good record I hope the hon. Gentleman will notice that, in trying on transparency, which is very important for decision to deal with the matter, we have given money to community making centrally and locally. transport, including in Durham. I have also announced My hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands a new fund, the better bus area fund, which his local (Karen Bradley) asked about pot holes. The amount of authority has indeed applied for; and the local sustainable money being made available to deal with pot holes in transport fund, which is worth £560 million and includes the four-year period of the spending review is more more money for the area than the previous Government than was made available by the previous Government. invested over the same period, has provided funding for In addition, we have undertaken expenditure to get best the Wheels to Work schemes, which I mention because practice identified across local authority works so that he made a very fair point about the importance of local authorities get better value for money and can ensuring that there is joined-up thinking between the therefore mend more pot holes or, indeed, prevent them Departments for Transport and for Work and Pensions. from occurring in the first place. I recognise the importance I have been corresponded with the Secretary of State of that matter for many of her constituents and no for Work and Pensions on the matter, and the discussions doubt people elsewhere in the country. are ongoing because we recognise the important link I entirely agree with my hon. Friend about the value between transport and work. The hon. Gentleman made of 20 mph limits, particularly outside schools. She will a very fair point. know, I hope, that I have made it possible for local On regional growth, I was disappointed that the authorities to introduce 20 mph limits, where they feel it Committee Chair quoted the IPPR’s report without appropriate to do so, much more easily and with much question because it is incomplete and partial, as she less bureaucracy than was hitherto the case. That has may remember I said when I dealt with it at Transport been well received by local government. She raised a fair questions a couple of sessions ago. Its figures are unreliable. point about school transport provision. I have been in Of all the transport investment announced in the ongoing discussions about that with my opposite number Chancellor’s autumn statement and in the 14 December at the Department for Education, the Under-Secretary announcement about local major schemes, 62% by value of State, my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing is in the north and the midlands and 35% is in the north and Shoreham (Tim Loughton); indeed, I am discussing alone. Similarly, of the strategic highway investments it with him again tomorrow. 219 Transport and the Economy28 FEBRUARY 2012 Transport and the Economy 220

My hon. Friend asked about sat-nav. Next week I am My hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South holding a sat-nav summit to bring all the various players (James Wharton) has done a lot of hard work on behalf together. [Interruption.] Labour Members clearly do of his local airport, and we all recognise that. He asked not think this is a serious issue, but I can tell my hon. in particular about the arrangements for public service Friend that Government Members do think so. We do obligations. I can tell him that it is open to regional not like HGVs going down inappropriate roads and stakeholders to apply to the Secretary of State to impose getting stuck. If Labour Members do not mind that, a PSO on an air route should they feel that a case can be that is up to them, but we are dealing with the issue in made and it satisfies EU regulation 1008/2008. As he government. knows, the airport pushed for a PSO in 2009. There is My hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Withington an issue with the poor service at the railway station, and (Mr Leech) referred to the significant road and rail I will be happy to speak to him separately about that investments in the north-west. He put matters into matter if that would be helpful. context fairly, and I am grateful for that. He also, My final point relates to comments about the rightly, highlighted his support for HS2, which is essential Department’s alleged underspend, which was raised by not only for Manchester and Leeds but for points the Chairman of the Select Committee and a couple of further north. The benefits of HS2 begin as soon as other Members. It is an important point. The level Birmingham is connected, when the first leg is in place, of underspend became apparent only towards the end because trains will be able to run through to the north-east of the year and could not have been predicted earlier. and journey times will be reduced accordingly. We want The money was used to increase expenditure in certain HS2 to be in place as soon as humanly possible, and if areas where results were deliverable in 2010-11 and we can do anything to bring the timetable forward, we represented good value for money. It would not have will. I note his strong support for the northern hub. I been right to scrabble around for something to spend on can only echo the comments of my right hon. Friend at the end of the year that was not good value for the Minister of State, who said that it was a really money; that would not have been a responsible use of strong contender for control period 5. If that gets me taxpayers’ money. I also point out to the hon. Lady that into the Manchester Evening News, that is all to the a very large sum of that related to budget cover for good. I will try to get into the Leicester Mercury as well depreciation and therefore was not, in any case, spendable by saying that the midland main line is a strong candidate cash in the traditional sense. The underspend arose for CP5. largely because of the rail subsidy being lower than I am delighted to see my hon. Friend the Member for expected following the successful negotiations that we Pudsey (Stuart Andrew) here today. The hon. Member carried out with the train operators, which produced for Swansea West (Geraint Davies), who is no longer in better than expected passenger numbers and a better his place, intervened on him to refer to the Cardiff to deal for the taxpayer than hitherto might have been Swansea line. I do not know what the hon. Gentleman expected. wants to achieve by electrification, but I point out to him that it is not necessary to change trains at Cardiff We have had a very good debate. The Government to get to Swansea. When electrification to Cardiff takes have demonstrated that we are committed to transport place, it will be perfectly possible, and indeed desirable, and the economy, committed to creating growth and to run trains through in bi-mode operation without the jobs, and committed to cutting carbon emissions. We necessity to change, and the speed gains that come from are getting on with it and doing a pretty good job. electrification will make it a much quicker and more pleasant journey to Swansea on new rolling stock. He ought to be pleased by that arrangement. Question deferred (Standing Order No. 54). 221 28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 222

DEPARTMENT FOR ENVIRONMENT, FOOD Whatever agreements are reached at Rio, the summit AND RURAL AFFAIRS is not just about one country or one negotiating bloc; it is about developing and developed countries, the haves and the have-nots, and not just one generation, but Rio+20 Summit future generations. This Rio conference will affect us all [Relevant Documents: Eighth Report from the Environmental today, tomorrow and in the days and years ahead. We Audit Committee, on Preparations for the Rio+20 Summit, therefore have to make it a high-level event, where we HC 1026, and the Government response, HC 1737.] change the way in which we do politics. It is a crossroads. Motion made, and Question proposed, From now on, policies should be formulated and budgets That, for the year ending with 31 March 2013, for expenditure made on the basis of what is right for the long term. We by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs— should give notice that we will change course because (1) resources, not exceeding £1,079,958,000, be authorised, on we believe that following a more sustainable path will account, for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1756, enhance human well-being, further global justice, strengthen (2) resources, not exceeding £172,643,000, be authorised, on gender equity and preserve the earth’s life-support systems account, for use for capital purposes as so set out, and (3) a sum, for future generations. not exceeding £1,106,539,000, be granted to Her Majesty to be We all know that it is 150 days to the start of the issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated Fund, on account, Olympics. I wonder whether people in Parliament and and applied for expenditure on the use of resources authorised by out there are aware of the countdown to Rio. There is a Parliament.—(Jeremy Wright.) bit of a paradox here. We have to be cautious and guard against the impression that this summit is the be-all and 7.27 pm end-all. We have to remind ourselves that no instant Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): I am wins or quick fixes are likely to arise form it. Rather, we delighted to have the opportunity to open this debate need a change of direction. Rio+20 must be seen as a on behalf of the Environmental Audit Committee following starting-off point for new initiatives, rather than a signing-off our report on the preparations for the Rio+20 summit. point to end a process. I am pleased that so many members of the Committee The Select Committee report calls on the Prime Minister are in the Chamber. I am grateful that the Minister is in to attend the summit to show the UK’s commitment. his place and say at the outset that I acknowledge that His office informed us that he would not be able to do the Secretary of State is on other urgent business to do so because of a clash of dates with the diamond jubilee with this topic. We welcome the Minister and look celebrations. That seems to have prompted the United forward to his comments. Nations and Brazil to move the summit to later in June to allow not just the Prime Minister, but other Heads of All parliamentarians must engage with this issue; Government to attend. The response to the report those of us on Select Committees are legislators who states that decisions about who will attend Rio, apart are there to hold the Government to account. We have from the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and already seen, in organisations such as GLOBE International, Rural Affairs, will be decided on later, as will the what a powerful contribution Members of Parliament decision on the need for a special envoy. Right from the from different Parliaments around the world can make word go, the Government have to be careful not to be on these important matters. on the back foot. This matter has to be clarified. The report is the first by our Committee to be debated I have no quarrel whatever with the Secretary of on an estimates day. The timing of the debate could not State going out there. It is vital that she attends. I know be better. This morning, along with other MPs, I was that she is very committed and that she has been involved privileged to be able to attend the launch of the report, in all the preliminary stages. However, I believe that for “Resilient People, Resilient Planet”, which comes from the full backing of the team, the Prime Minister needs the high-level panel on global sustainability set up by to be there, as well as the Deputy Prime Minister, the the United Nations Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, scientists and the business leaders. The UK team have and which was presented to us by Janos Pasztor. In to make their mark. At a time when the world is their report, he and the panel members make a truly changing; when environmental debt needs to be as high powerful case for global change, and that is what we up the agenda as economic debt; when we face temperature have to address in the run-up to the Rio+20 summit. rise and biodiversity loss unless we learn to live within This debate also comes after the publication of the zero our planetary boundaries; and when we have one draft of the United Nations outcome document for the opportunity for the international community to frame summit. the new priorities and to work out how we will each, We began the Select Committee inquiry early, starting individually and collectively, engage with this matter, last spring, so that we had time to examine what the we need the UK Prime Minister to be there, actively Government are doing to make Rio+20 a success and shaping the new agenda and understanding what alliances so that we could play a part in getting attention for the are being forged. summit, including the pre-summit events, the actual negotiations and, crucially, the follow-up work that will Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): be needed. If action was needed at the first Rio Earth Does the hon. Lady agree that as we are a global leader summit, 20 years on we need solutions more than ever. in embedding natural capital in the national accounts, Governments and politicians the world over need to get which I hope will be a central feature of the summit in their act sorted. Equally, we have to take this to every Rio later in the year, the Prime Minister has a strong community around the UK and to the people we live story to tell? He will be able not only to boast of our next to and work with. People in countries, towns and work in that area, but to share it and further strengthen cities the world over need to urge the decision makers to our alliance with the Brazilians, who are an emerging do more. and important power. 223 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 224

Joan Walley: I am very grateful for that intervention, The report said that there is scope for the creation of especially as it comes from the hon. Gentleman, who an international court on the environment, which would plays such a constructive role in the work of GLOBE provide a forum for adjudicating on environmental legislators not just in the UK, but internationally. This cases. However, it noted the Government’s line on United debate is about how we can best use our best practice Nations institutions—that the focus should be on making and leadership and be part of the ongoing process. the existing systems work before inventing new ones. We It will be no good if we are not seen as one of the thought that that was a reasonable line to take, but main contributors to a new multilateral process. The stipulated that the UK should not insist on it if it would questions are as difficult as they can be and there are no get in the way of a wider agreement on the substantive easy answers, especially if we are not fully committed issues, such as the green economy. and on board. It is not in the UK’s interests to be The report stressed the importance of engaging with sidelined in any way as the Rio agenda is formulated civil society and, more importantly, of finding creative, and then carried on after the summit. This discussion imaginative and innovative ways of engaging with the came up at the launch earlier today. This is not a public. I know that the Liaison Committee is keen that question of the Prime Minister going out there to Parliament should go out to the community. We are grandstand; we want him there so that he can understand looking to hold a special event at St Martin-in-the-Fields and be part of the process. When the Minister winds up, on 21 May involving the “Hard Rain” project to express I would be grateful if he could tell us what discussions the importance of this agenda not just through the the Secretary of State has had with the Prime Minister words of politicians, but through art, music and about this issue and whether we can expect him to make photography. a commitment to attend. The Government’s response to our report is fine as I would also be grateful if the Minister could address far as it goes, but far more work on the ground is another of our recommendations and say whether the needed. That is why it is so important that we flag up UK will appoint a special envoy to champion some of the matter in today’s debate. I welcome the Government this work in the years ahead. It was important that we response, however, which was positive overall. As we had a special envoy to deal with forestry issues. I am would expect, it accepted the importance of the Rio+20 grateful that the very capable hon. Member for Richmond summit and the need to contribute to making it a Park (Zac Goldsmith), who played such a distinguished success. I welcome the fact that the Government are role in forestry issues, is present. I hope that what fully committed to sustainable development, but we happened to him does not happen again if our always hear a lot of warm words about the importance recommendation for a special envoy on biodiversity for of mainstreaming sustainable development across all Rio is accepted. policies, and we would like to hear a little more about The objectives for Rio+20, as set out by the United how that will actually be done and how the Government Nations, are intend to raise the profile of Rio+20. I know that since “to secure renewed political commitment for sustainable development, our report was published the Secretary of State has assess the progress to date and the remaining gaps in the spoken to non-governmental organisations and business implementation of the outcomes of the major summits on sustainable groups, including on 9 February at the Guildhall. It development, and address new and emerging challenges.” would be helpful, though, if the Minister could set out In practical terms, the two main themes of the conference what further action the Government will take to generate are and maintain engagement on Rio+20. “a green economy in the context of sustainable development and Another relevant issue, that of mobilisation, was poverty eradication” raised at a conference chaired by Nick Stern under the and sponsorship of the United Nations Foundation. We “the institutional framework for sustainable development”. need to concentrate on solutions and on leading by The Select Committee report described the lack of example, so local initiatives all over the country are progress on sustainable development since the first Rio important, such as the one at Keele university that I summit 20 years ago, which I am sure many Members attended just last week for green week on the occasion were involved in taking forward, perhaps in local of the inauguration of Jonathon Porritt as the university’s government. It identified a new impetus for urgent Chancellor. Such initiatives follow on from the “Hard action and for a greater appreciation of our planetary Rain” project, which was a solutions exhibition showing boundaries. The report discussed the merits of new that we need to think not about nightmare scenarios sustainable development goals and recommended that but about what we can do. We need to work together to they take forward the millennium development goals, create solutions. but with the key difference of applying targets to The Government agreed with us that business development as well as to developing countries. involvement in the green economy is key. However, their The report emphasised how the green economy agenda response did not address the important point that we needs to protect those who might be disadvantaged by raised about the need for a fair green economy that it. We need a fair green economy that respects the social reflects the social dimension of sustainable development. justice pillar of sustainable development. The report Another detailed aspect of our report was our reference highlighted the need for the green economy to take to the proposed international court for the environment. account of the value of ecosystem services and beyond- We asked for the Government’s views on the pros and GDP measures of economic activity, including well-being. cons of setting up such a court. We appreciated their It noted the need to involve the private sector in the thorough response describing the lack of international green economy and recommended mandatory sustainability appetite for a court that would bind countries. We reporting by companies in their annual reports and understand that, but a more modest proposal doing the accounts. rounds was a court that would make only declaratory 225 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 226

[Joan Walley] A further issue to consider is the pivotal role of business and the private sector, and the need for companies decisions. We would appreciate an update on that from to be transparent about the sustainability of their operations, the Minister, including what further developments and including their resource efficiency. They also need to discussions there have been. disclose the source of the raw materials that they use, In the run-up to Rio, it is important that we place our the waste that they generate and the efficiency with preparations in the context of UK policy. We must which they use and reuse resources. examine the issues that the UK should be interested in, Many people are doing what they can to show leadership so that we can lead by example. Our constituents should and demand action, and it is vital that the UK Government be pushing us to push the Government to get the best engage with parliamentarians and legislators, civil society, deal for the UK. We should never be satisfied. We need business and people the world over on these most a deal that acts as a catalyst for green growth, takes pressing issues. I welcome this evening’s debate. account of fairness, defines what we mean by a green economy and does not use green growth as a euphemism Several hon. Members rose— for economic growth. It needs to take account of best practice in other legislatures, such as Wales, where there is legislation on sustainable development. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. Please resume your seats. Ten Members want to speak. If We can start now the discussions about a new framework everybody takes 10 minutes, plus the usual injury time and a new economy that invests for the long term and for interventions, everybody will get in. We may have to offers a future for humankind in which we can live tweak that a bit later in the debate. within our environmental limits in a fair and just society. All Departments of our Government must lead by example at home, whether on finance, business or international development. They must consider the causes 7.46 pm of poverty, not the symptoms, and embed sustainable Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con): I shall do my development in cross-cutting policies to invest for the best to be as brief as possible, Mr Deputy Speaker, to long term. We must have the resources to show what the allow colleagues time. UK can do at a time of transition. I first wish to put on record my appreciation of the Local Agenda 21 achieved a huge amount at the first hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley), Rio summit, and we need to see what equivalent outcomes who has not only secured the debate but done extensive we can get at this one. I wish to highlight the enormous work with the Environmental Audit Committee. She efforts of many countries, particularly Colombia, whose has had an extensive career working on environmental ambassador is in London today not just garnering issues, and I appreciate her efforts over a number of years. support and building consensus on the five main issues— energy, food security, water, sustainable cities and oceans— The Government have a fine line to walk. Clearly the but doing all he can with other countries, including the United Kingdom wants to be seen to be leading the UK, to promote the sustainable development goals. world on environmental issues, and we have a moral We do not have time to go into detail about many responsibility to go to Rio and negotiate the best deal aspects of what we need, such as on forestry. It is really that we can for the globe. At the same time, however, we important that we have a time-bound commitment to have to ensure that the rest of the world comes with us. far more areas of forestry, managed by indigenous That will be crucial as we move forward. We need to be people and local communities. I hope that when today’s seen to be leading the demand for improvements to debate is over, Ministers will have a greater understanding protect the world in which we live, but we cannot be of the fact that they need to keep Parliament up to date seen to be charging over the hill and leaving everybody with all the initiatives that are under way, including else behind. We have to take people with us. proposals, actions, the changing positions of different It is also worth putting on record that we have countries and what can be done to address possible nothing to fear from a green agenda. In fact, just the hurdles. The Environmental Audit Committee wants to opposite—the UK has everything to gain from moving be part of that process and actively engage in the towards a green economy. We have seen that in our own progress that the Government make. constituencies. My constituents have embraced solar I also ask the Minister whether we can have regular power in their desire to put panels on their roof and updates on the work being done in our bloc, the European partake of free energy from the sun. It is crucial to Union, in the run-up to Rio+20. How do the Government recognise that we are pushing at an open door, because intend to take forward any commitments reached at our constituents are keen to get on board as long as Rio, and how will Parliament, the place that should be they can see the benefits to themselves. It is important at the centre of the debate, be involved in debating and not only that we achieve things but that we take the agreeing follow-up measures in the years ahead? Will general public with us. They are very keen, and for the the model be that national and regional economies next generation—my children’s generation—having a follow essential components, using environmental taxes little dial in the kitchen telling them what energy they and regulations effectively to promote low-carbon industry? are generating from solar panels and what energy they Can we have greater transparency in reporting, so that are consuming will be very powerful. The Government economic decisions reflect the value of ecosystem services need to push such ideas. and impinging planetary boundaries? In that way we That leads me to science and technology, which will could measure development progress not by gross domestic be crucial. Science has a great deal to offer in solving product alone but by measures that capture well-being some of the problems that we face on Earth, and the and the health of environmental capital. Government should embrace science and technology 227 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 228 and try to find more methods of doing things more energy in an unenvironmental way, and if we continued efficiently. We must ensure that new technology is brought to import those products. It is crucial that we move at forward. the right pace on carbon leakage. We support those One technology that is particularly relevant to the industries in reducing the amount of energy that they Sherwood constituency is carbon capture. Sherwood is use, but we can do that only in a global context. a former Nottinghamshire coalfield and coal is a crucial My final point is also on technology. It is almost part of my constituency, but we all recognise the global impossible to separate the issues of food and energy. If warming problems that coal causes. If we can find a we are to solve the problem of feeding the world and solution to catching carbon from those polluting power keeping it warm at the same time, we must make use of stations, there is an opportunity to make use of the new technologies and scientific innovations. I am keen Earth’s natural resources without releasing carbon. As to see the introduction and use of genetic modification we open new technologies such as shale gas, as long as technologies, which are already used extensively in the we do not release carbon into the atmosphere, we have a US, South America and China. There is a danger that wider window for improving technologies to make them the EU will be left behind on GM technology. The more renewable and, as it were, less traditional. That Government need to lead independent research—I could be a great benefit not only to this country, but to emphasise independence—into GM technology, so that the world. UK consumers can be confident not only that it is a safe At the same time, we need to recognise our nation’s technology, but that it offers rewards. energy security position and how crucial it is for us to Finally—I know I have said “finally” already, but this find new sources of energy so that we are not dependent really is finally—we need to bear in mind that if we are on other nations to produce energy for us. We have a unable to secure the rest of the world and if they do not great thirst for energy and power, and it is important for come with us, we need to look at the practical implications us to find new sources of renewable energy. Solar is a for the UK. That is probably the most controversial good example, but another one that I should like to flag thing I have said. If we are unable to drag the rest of the up is anaerobic digestion, which has a great future. My world with us, the impact of global warming on the UK constituents recognise the benefits of anaerobic digestion. will be catastrophic. If other nations around that table Anybody who is offered the choice of an energy recovery are not supportive, our communities will be at severe plant, an incinerator or an anaerobic digester within risk of flooding and weather conditions. The Government their community will always go for an anaerobic digester, must then consider how we are to mitigate the symptoms because it does not involve a chimney pot. Anaerobic of global warming for those communities. There is a digestion has a great deal to offer the nation, and with balance to strike in that situation. Do we spend taxpayers’ that method we can produce energy using biogas—I money on trying to reduce our carbon footprint, or do want the Government to push that. we spend it on mitigating the symptoms of the world’s Another issue that I want to highlight—I hope the inability to act to curb carbon release? That will be an Government take it seriously—is water. Western nations enormous challenge not only for the UK, but for the drag water around the world and pull it from water-stressed rest of the world. places. We are all keen to eat asparagus and strawberries I thank the House for its time and look forward to in December, but as consumers, we sometimes do not the rest of the debate. give a thought to the impact that that might have globally. That links to other Departments, and I hope 7.56 pm the Minister recognises how important it is that the whole of the Government climb on board with the Rio Martin Caton (Gower) (Lab): As a member of the agenda. I am thinking of projects funded by the Department Environmental Audit Committee under the committed for International Development. UK taxpayers’ money leadership of my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on- could be used, for example, for a project such as building Trent North (Joan Walley), I am grateful for the opportunity a power station in a third world country, which is an to contribute to this important debate. I shall pick up honourable project. However, it is important that that on some of the issues that she raised and ask how we power station does not burn carbon fuels, or if it does, can help to make the Earth Summit in Brazil in June a that it has carbon capture and storage. It is also important meaningful driver of sustainable development. I am that UK taxpayers’ money is not used to devise water also pleased to follow the hon. Member for Sherwood systems—for hydroelectricity or irrigation—if that will (Mr Spencer), a colleague on the Committee. I am not impact on a community downstream and leave it without convinced that I want to look through his shale gas window, a clean water source and unable to live a normal life. but I agree with many of the other points he made. UK consumers need to be mindful of the impact we Twenty years after the original Rio summit, which have on the global ecosystem. adopted the Brundtland commission concept and I mentioned taking the world with us and keeping established the three-pillar approach to sustainable pace, and another issue that needs highlighting in that development, which ties social and environment goals respect is carbon leakage. The last thing we want is for together, it is right to look back at how far we have the UK Government to take firm action over energy- come, or indeed to admit how far we have not come, intensive industries only for those industries to relocate since ’92. To paraphrase the UN Secretary-General, the to another part of the world and for us to import its trends on the three pillars of sustainable development products. The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North are at best mixed. There has been significant economic is keen to see the success of the ceramics industry in the growth overall, but the benefits have not been universally UK. It would be a tragedy if, for example, the steel, felt. He pointed out that income poverty remains an cement and ceramics industries left for other parts of enormous problem in sub-Saharan Africa and south the world and continued to burn enormous amounts of Asia; large disparities between regions remain on other 229 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 230

[Martin Caton] social goals with economic policies. In my view, taxation has a vital role to play in incentivising more sustainable millennium development goals, including school enrolment, behaviour. It helps to make environmentally damaging and maternal and child health; and 1 billion people are activity less economically attractive and encourages still under-nourished. Yet only half the countries with environmental goods. One problem in this country, data on their millennium development goals are on however, is that the Government do not have a definition track to meet their targets. of an environmental tax. They have abandoned the The environmental protection pillar has probably previous Government’s definition, which reflected shown the least progress. The Secretary-General said the international norm—basically, if a tax has an that pressure on ecosystems continued to increase, as environmentally beneficial effect, it is an environmental did the loss of forests and biodiversity. Sadly, the world tax—and the Treasury is now considering a new definition. has failed to respond to the dangers that it recognised Perhaps the Minister will tell us whether the UK delegation 20 years ago, which is enormously disappointing, because will have a new definition to take to Rio to inform its in that time the scientific evidence on the consequences negotiating position in this policy area. of failing to tackle climate change has become stronger. The green economy debate also focuses on the valuation We have also learned a lot more about what is happening of ecosystems services, the role of regulation, the need to ecosystems, biodiversity, the nitrogen cycle and the to measure sustainable economic performance by a other processes that the Stockholm Resilience Centre yardstick that goes beyond gross domestic product so identifies as the planetary boundaries within which that human well-being becomes central, and the need to humanity can operate safely. ensure that the green economy is a fair economy—fair Our Committee took evidence from a range of across the planet, and within regions and countries. organisations, and the picture painted of progress was There is every prospect of those themes being adopted pretty well uniformly gloomy. The International Institute at Rio as essential requirements of a green economy, for Environment and Development said that and I hope that the Government will press the case. “we are currently losing the battle for sustainable development”; The EAC report on carbon budgets called for the introduction of mandatory emissions reporting by business Oxfam stated that progress since 1992 has been “weak”; to help to tackle climate change. Various organisations and the Foundation for Democracy and Sustainable and bodies have called for Rio+20 to agree a mandatory Development identified regime for sustainability reporting, and we agree with “signs of erosion in the overall global political commitment to them. That sort of transparency will help the private sustainable development”. sector to move more quickly to play its part in creating Why then has the world failed to respond anything like that green economy. as robustly as it should to the threats the planet faces? The other main theme for Rio is the institutional There is probably a multitude of answers, but the underlying framework for sustainable development. The UK is not one is that most people in the world have not been in as strong a position on governance issues as it was a convinced of the severity and urgency of the challenge, few years ago. The Government have badly weakened and even if they have, they are far from sure that action the capacity for the objective assessment of their own at any level will be effective. A “business as usual”, or a environmental performance, with the abolition of the “business more or less as usual”, scenario therefore royal commission on environmental pollution, the wins by default. We need to use the run-up to Rio as an withdrawal of funding from the Sustainable Development opportunity to combat that inertia and make the case Commission and the removal of the watchdog role of for action, so that the summit can enable a renewal and Natural England and the Environment Agency. On the more concerted response to the threats, but also the other hand, the UK devolved Administrations have a opportunities, that we face. role in promoting sustainable development. I represent One option that has arisen out of discussions in the a Welsh constituency and believe that the Welsh Assembly run-up to Rio has been the establishment of new Government have a valuable contribution to make on international goals. Colombia submitted a proposal for the governance question. Perhaps the Minister will inform the introduction of UN sustainable development goals. the House how the Government intend to facilitate That seems to have been reasonably well received, albeit input from Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales before with two not unreasonable caveats: first, there is no time and during Rio. Furthermore, the Select Committee before June to draw up and agree a detailed set of such heard evidence in support of an international court for goals, and secondly, the new goals must complement, the environment. Although it must be recognised that not undermine, the existing millennium development that would not be universally welcomed, the idea has goals. Indeed, the Committee considered the establishment real merit and should be pursued. of sustainable development and consumption goals at A real danger in the run-up to Rio is that ambitions Rio—even if at first in broad-brush terms—as a way of will be diminished by the global economic crisis, that we shifting effort contributions from the developing to the will return to the old, sterile, economy versus environment developed world. agenda, and that in practice Governments will choose The two main themes for Rio, as my hon. Friend to define a green economy as “full steam ahead but with the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North said, are to a bit of environmental window dressing”. That will not build a green economy in the context of sustainable do. Across the globe, it is clear that environmental development, and poverty eradication. The UN Secretary- protection and enhancement are too often being forced General envisages that involving a multi-track approach into second place by the economic imperative. encompassing taxation, public procurement, public The message from our own Government and the investment in sustainable infrastructure, public sector lead party in the coalition is mixed. Good things have been support for research and development, and reconciling done and said. I broadly welcome the green investment 231 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 232 bank, the natural environment White Paper, the the Rio agenda into a language that would hold sway in establishment of the natural capital committee and the the most powerful Ministries in each Government—namely, national ecosystem assessment. I thought the Secretary of the Treasuries and Finance Ministries. State’s speech on this very subject to environmental non- Perversely, we still focus on GDP as the indicator of governmental organisations and industry representatives national wealth, when clearly it is only a partial measure in the Guildhall on 9 February, despite a few gaps in that does not take into account the stock of natural detail, took us in exactly the right direction—the direction capital on which we all depend and all economies rely. we need to head in if anything meaningful is to come One reason for the failure to look after and steward out of Rio. natural capital is the absence of effective recognition On the other hand, a rather different message is within the national accounts of what capital there is. A coming from parts of the Government—that environmental country can grow while becoming poorer as it destroys protection is a barrier to economic growth. We see all the natural capital on which its future prosperity depends. environmental regulations being reviewed as potential If Rio+20 is to be a success, we must address these three red tape, the EU habitats directive described as gold-plated challenges. That is why I am so pleased that we have this by the Chancellor without any supporting evidence, the opportunity to discuss Rio+20. mishandling of the solar feed-in tariff issue, and strong We should not leave it to Governments, who have not resistance to the use of wind energy by large numbers of done a particularly strong job. As previous speakers, Government Back Benchers, resulting in the industry not least the Chairman of the Select Committee, have reconsidering major investment in renewables in the UK. said, we need to step up as legislators. We need to ensure Let us be clear that uncertainty about any country’s that in Chambers such as this across the world, we hold absolute commitment to the strongest possible outcomes our Governments to account and ensure that they deliver at Rio will help to make such beneficial outcomes less on the promises they make in high-falutin’ speeches at likely. One way to overcome such uncertainty is for the high-falutin’ summits. As the United Nations Secretary- Prime Minister to commit himself to attending the General Ban Ki-moon said at the formal announcement summit with the determination to secure substantial of the Rio+20 world summit of legislators: progress in the international commitment to sustainable “Parliamentarians have a profound influence. Youenact legislation. development. You approve budgets. Youare at the heart of democratic governance. And in today’s increasingly interconnected world, you are also a link between the global and local—bringing local concerns into 8.6 pm the global arena, and translating global standards into national action.” Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): I am not sure that we have been good at translating It is a pleasure to follow the previous speakers. global standards into national action. The international The Earth Summit in 1992 was a timely and significant presidency of GLOBE International rests with the UK international event that brought together 172 countries, parliamentary group, and the right honourable John more than 100 of which were represented by their Gummer, now Lord Deben, is serving as the president leaders. It led to the creation of the UN conventions on of GLOBE. As the president of GLOBE in the House biological diversity, the framework convention on climate of Commons, I am delighted to say that the Government change, the principles on sustainable forestry and Local of Brazil and the United Nations Secretary-General Agenda 21, all of which were designed to tackle the have both recognised that a new process is required at unsustainable use of natural resources and reduce man’s the Rio+20 to remedy the underlying weaknesses that I impact on the environment. Twenty years later, however, have mentioned. That process will be overseen by the as leaders are about to meet again in Rio, we have to be global legislators’ organisation, GLOBE. With the support honest about where we are. The state of the environment of the United Nations Secretary-General and the has worsened significantly, with many of the natural Government of Brazil, as well as the visionary mayor of resources on which we all depend under ever-increasing Rio, Eduardo Paes, the world summit of legislators will strain in many areas, including oceans and forests, be launched. The summit will involve more than biodiversity and rising greenhouse gas emissions. Yes, 300 Speakers of Parliaments, Presidents of Congresses we can all point to significant advances in parts of the and Senates, and senior legislators. It will mark the world—for example, the significant decrease in deforestation beginning of a new international process for legislators in Brazil—and to political processes such as the recent that is dedicated to establishing a mechanism that scrutinises outcome of the Durban climate negotiations, but all the and monitors Governments on the delivery of the original scientific indicators are flashing red. Rio agenda and the conventions on climate, desertification The question is why? It is not that we committed to and biodiversity, as well as any further commitments the wrong policies at Rio 20 years ago and in Johannesburg made at Rio+20. 10 years later; it is that Governments have failed properly The summit will have three core objectives. The first to implement their commitments. If we are to ensure is scrutiny.Recognising the role of legislators in monitoring that Rio+20 warrants the participation of leaders again, and scrutinising the work of Governments, the summit we need to recognise that three key parts of the Rio will establish a mechanism at the international level to jigsaw were missing, so that that implementation was monitor the implementation by Governments of always likely to be difficult. First, there was a lack of commitments made at Rio+20. The summit will develop domestic legislation to underpin the Rio principles and a set of Rio scrutiny principles to strengthen legislators’ conventions; secondly, there was a lack of credible and capacity to hold Governments to account. The second independent international scrutiny outside the governmental objective is legislation. Recognising the role of legislators processes to monitor and scrutinise governmental delivery; in developing and passing laws, the summit will provide and thirdly, the international community failed to convert a platform to advance and share best legislative practice, 233 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 234

[Mr Graham Stuart] outset, let me put on record my congratulations to the British Government on ensuring that issues that are as well as to promote a mechanism in international important to this nation, including our agriculture, are processes that can recognise national legislation. The on the agenda and will be addressed to ensure that third objective is on natural capital. Recognising the good, sustainable husbandry and agricultural processes role of many countries’ Parliaments in approving budgets are pursued. and national accounts, the summit will examine how I agree with the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member the value of natural capital can be integrated in our for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley) that the Prime national economic frameworks, to enable legislators Minister should attend the summit. That would give it better to monitor the use of natural capital. the necessary panache and provide the necessary proof Based on those objectives, the summit participants that the issue is at the top of the Government’s agenda. will negotiate a Rio+20 legislators’ protocol. They will I hope that Ministers can find a way to do that within be asked to make a commitment to take it back to their their busy schedule. We know it is difficult to find time respective legislatures to seek support for, or formal in what is an especially busy schedule this year for our ratification of, the protocol. Legislators will then be nation, with the jubilee celebrations and of course the asked to reconvene in Rio every two years to monitor Olympics, but this is one of those make-or-break points, progress in implementing the Rio+20 outcomes, as well where world leaders can say either that they are on the as to share best legislative practice. It is therefore with side of some measures that will be very positive in great pleasure that, on behalf of the President of the helping to eradicate world poverty, or that they are not. Brazilian Senate, I formally invite Mr Speaker to lead a That is not to diminish the role that will be played by delegation from this House to attend the summit of our Secretary of State, who has done an excellent job of legislators. I shall be pleased to present the President’s ensuring that British interests and the interests that the invitation after the debate. House is expressing this evening are on the agenda, but The world summit of legislators would not have been sometimes leaders have to step up to the mark too, and possible without the commitment of legislators from I hope that that happens. the Senate and Congress of Brazil. With the support of I would like the Minister to take the opportunity this the President of the Brazilian Congress, Senator José evening to outline the objectives and goals of our Sarney, and the relentless efforts of the President of GLOBE nation’s Government for the outcome of the process, Brazil and First Secretary of the Brazilian Senate, Senator because it is outcomes that are measurable. The Government Cicero Lucena, that process would not be taking place. have to set their own outcomes, not just for the summit Likewise, it is with the support of the mayor of Rio, generally but specifically for our country. What are we Eduardo Paes, that the summit will have a home in Rio. going to do? What are this Government going to do In concluding, let me say that the UK has an extremely and, as the last speaker asked, what is this Parliament important role to play at Rio+20. The UK has made a going to do to achieve those outcomes? We also have to series of significant commitments to incorporate the ensure that our needs as a nation are not disadvantaged. value of natural capital into its accounts—a radical The hon. Member for Gower (Martin Caton) made it step, and one that shows that the Prime Minister is clear that the way to ensure that those outcomes are on delivering on his promise to lead the greenest Government agenda and are achievable is by having good communication ever. In fact, that step alone has the potential to be one with all regions of the UK in advance of the summit. I of the most radical changes to the way in which we would welcome the Minister coming to talk to our operate our economy. I am delighted that it is under this devolved Assembly and those of Scotland and Wales, to Chancellor that the UK natural capital committee build ensure that we have a united national front for the on this experience, which provides concrete and practical whole nation. actions that can be taken at national level. That radical Europe was previously not a good example of sustainable yet sensible agenda can be presented by our Prime food production. It has obviously changed in recent Minister at Rio in person, I hope. I urge him to attend years—we no longer have the vast butter mountains or personally, following the G20 in Mexico, and I believe wine lakes that once marked Europe. Since the decoupling, that the international process would benefit from his the dynamic has changed somewhat, potentially for the contribution. I also urge his personal support for President better, in helping to demonstrate how we can get sustainable Dilma in that undertaking, as Brazil and the UK have food production and how we can set a good example. the potential to be much closer allies. The UK and the European Community now look to I urge the Government to support the world summit security of food supply in driving forward the agri-agenda. of legislators and ensure that it is appropriately We could introduce that agenda and that dynamic to acknowledged and recognized in the leaders’ communiqué the summit to demonstrate that changing our approach at Rio+20. I know that the Secretary of State has been to livestock can change the flow of agriculture and asked to meet GLOBE to discuss the issue. If production levels. Our own livestock numbers, especially parliamentarians are properly engaged, we can deliver suckler cows, have reduced in recent years, thus rebalancing on our nation’s promises, give weight to the needs of the green economy to a degree. That ought to allow the future generations, not just our own, and deliver sustainable UK to encourage the various nations of Africa to development not as a soundbite, but in reality. ensure that food production on their own small agri- holdings is sustainable and that they learn from our own sustainable practices. 8.15 pm It has already been pointed out that 1 billion people Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): It is an honour to around the world are going hungry tonight—largely follow the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness because of inefficient food production, because, frankly, (Mr Stuart) in this important debate. Right at the we live in a world of plenty. We should set a goal to 235 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 236 change that, and I hope that that will be done in Rio. I social justice. Only by taking concerted action across also hope that the big polluters of the world’s vast rich and poor nations, forested and deforested nations, and resources are made to pay. We need to see a change in those nations that are the most and least vulnerable to how the “polluter pays”principle is driven by Governments. climate change, can we tackle this global challenge. We I welcome the moves to prioritise global water governance are, as someone said a few years ago, all in this together. and to protect downstream users of water. That will be Alongside carbon emissions and natural resource important for sustainable village life in many of the use, Rio+20 must tackle the issues of poverty, food, countries that would be regarded as third world, and I energy access and water. I do not entirely agree with the hope that we will be able to ensure that underground support expressed by the hon. Member for Sherwood water resources will be protected for the future. The fact (Mr Spencer) for GM technology. There are other ways is that those who were the poorest 20 years ago are still to tackle food production, including introducing more the poorest now, and that 20% of the population consume efficient food production, as the hon. Member for North 80% of the world’s resources. Furthermore, 20% of the Antrim said. Less wasted food in the richer countries world’s poorest people do not have a decent standard of would be a significant contribution, as would the fairer living. I hope that that we will see change for the better distribution of land and better education and training in Rio. for poor farmers in many parts of the world. All those things can work together to make the whole planet 8.21 pm more efficient at producing and distributing food. Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): It is a pleasure Several hon. Members, including the hon. Members to follow the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian for Gower (Martin Caton) and for Beverley and Holderness Paisley) and all the other speakers of all parties with whom (Mr Stuart), have highlighted the many failures in I agree on many issues. Speaking as a Liberal Democrat, development and environmental protection over the as a former member of the Environmental Audit Committee past 20 years. In the graphic phrase of the hon. Member and, indeed, as a former GLOBE delegate to the Cancun for Beverley and Holderness, many of the scientific climate change summit, I feel as though I am speaking indicators are still flashing red. And yet, many things among friends here on many of these issues. I commend that have happened during those 20 years have given the Environmental Audit Committee for its report, for cause for hope. Many people thought even 20 years ago its mission to raise the profile of Rio+20 and for its role that the UNFCCC process might run into the ground in securing this debate today. and expire very quickly, but despite some close calls, Twenty years ago, I was involved in raising the profile especially in Copenhagen, it is still on track. It is still a of the original Earth summit. I then worked for Oxfam, UN-led process incorporating more or less all the countries and we were sending out tens of thousands of mailings of the globe, and that in itself is an encouraging to Oxfam supporters, trying to get them to lobby their development. MPs. I remember that a young campaigner called Caroline Several hon. Members have said that monitoring and Lucas was working there at the same time. Whatever verification are a crucial part of the process, and we happened to her, Mr Deputy Speaker? Even then, we have seen significant progress in that regard. There is a were trying to link the issues of global poverty, global significant prospect of reconciliation between China justice and global sustainability, and trying to persuade and the United States on those issues, which offers the people that they were absolutely inseparable. In the prospect of whatever follows the Kyoto protocol being intervening 20 years, it has become even clearer that a more robust and verifiable process. We have also seen that is the case. The risk of climate change, and the risk the setting of high-level millennium development goals, that it poses to the global economy, as well as to and the acceptance by many nations that those goals people’s lives and livelihoods, is now even better understood. can provide a driver for international and domestic The risk of climate change accelerating beyond 2 above action, even though we know that many of them might pre-industrial levels is also much clearer, not only from be missed. the United Nations framework convention on climate change reports but from domestic reports such as the In this country, the use of domestic legislation has Stern report, which catalogued in excruciating detail the been important, as the hon. Member for Beverley and risks of flooding, famine and disruption, and the challenge Holderness said. The Climate Change Act 2008 set the that they would pose to global economics as well as to 80% target, and this Government have produced the people’s lives. natural environment White Paper, which is a truly radical Even then, we predicted that the first people to suffer document. If the policy of valuing natural capital that the most from climate change and environmental disaster it advocates were put into practice and were to make a would be the poor. Sadly, that has proved to be the case. difference to the detail of Government policy, we would With hindsight, it was probably true even then, as be taking a massive step forward. We have also heard environments in the horn of Africa and the Sahel were the promise to establish the world’s first green investment beginning to change on a permanent basis. The risks to bank, and seen the prospect of the green deal making a the poor in countries such as Bangladesh are even radical difference to energy efficiency. clearer now. This is also true in the UK, and even more There have also been many other smaller, less high-profile so now. In 2007, my constituency was extremely badly initiatives, such as the local sustainable transport fund flooded, and it was the uninsured and the underinsured— proposed by the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, those on low incomes—who often suffered the most. my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), We know that that kind of extreme weather event, even and his promotion of alternatives to travel. He has done in relatively wealthy countries such as ours, will be many of those things on a small scale, to make sustainable much more frequent thanks to climate change. It is even development approaches work across different Departments. clearer that we cannot separate climate change and However, we need to embed that right across Government environmental sustainability from issues of poverty and to make sure that it functions right across Government. 237 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 238

[Martin Horwood] out, a number of important things came out of Rio 1992, which I believe was signed up to in the end by I commend my hon. Friend, too, for securing an abstention 178 Governments. It was to a large extent informed in the recent European vote on biofuels, which I think by the unsurpassed definition of sustainability from was a positive step. We have seen progress at the European Brundtland—that it is development level as well. The establishment of the European “that meets the needs of the present without compromising the Commission’s emissions trading scheme may be flawed ability of future generations to meet their own needs.” and limited, but it was a first step towards international That is the famous part, but the central definition refers action on limiting emissions, which has been copied to other things from Brundtland, such as worldwide. “the concept of needs, in particular the essential needs of the A great deal of action has been taken by what we are world’s poor, to which overriding priority should be given; and, supposed to call non-state actors nowadays—or people, the idea of limitations imposed by the state of technology and as we used to call them. In business and, significantly, social organisation on the environment’s ability to meet present non-governmental organisations, in politics and for the and future needs.” Environmental Audit Committee and the media, this is If anything, it is that second element of sustainability an issue that has become high profile, leading to a great that we have let slip by over the 20 years since Rio. deal of action at the local and individual level as well as As hon. Members have mentioned, Rio led among the governmental level. other things to an outpouring of local enthusiasm in What are the key messages for Rio? First, it is right the form of Local Agenda 21. I was an enthusiastic for us to support the high-level goals. I strongly urge Local Agenda 21-er at that time, but we were probably that they should include goals on resource use as well as naive about implementation and subsequently about on development and carbon emissions. what sustainability actually meant. In opposition the Liberal Democrats produced a I was recently invited to an interesting seminar on document called “Our Natural Heritage”. It highlighted sustainable aviation. There, I wondered whether the the risk of things such as nickel, tin, tungsten, zinc, concept of sustainability might have been pushed a bauxite and oil becoming rarer in some cases and little to the margins. As far as the approach to Rio+20 is perhaps even running out in the next 50 years; or, if concerned, it is important to get clear what we mean by they did not run out, becoming much more expensive sustainability and what we mean in respect of the needs and more environmentally damaging to extract. The and the limitations that go with the sustainability concept. economic risks as well as the environmental risks were We must then address those matters very seriously in pinpointed, and we suggested introducing an Anti-Waste the Rio+20 discussions. and Resource Efficiency Act to parallel the Climate Things have certainly not happened since the original Change Act 2008, to monitor and set objectives for Rio along the lines that those who participated and sustainable resource use and reduce the associated risks. lauded what happened there would have expected. Although I still commend our publication to Ministers. One policy considerable progress has been made with the millennium we got through from this document was the local green goals that were set at the Rio+10 summit in Johannesburg, space designation to protect green spaces important to most of them will not be met by 2015, partly because, as local communities. I can see why that was a politically I think we now know, many Governments who say they attractive one to pick out, but I think our proposed will do things simply do not do them. Being clear about Resource Efficiency Act would have been even more that at Rio+20 will be an important part of securing a important. If the Rio high-level goals helped to contribute realistic outcome from what it may achieve. to promoting governmental goals on resource use and worldwide goals, that would be significant. Rio+20 is likely to proceed on a much more sombre basis than earlier summits of this kind, but as other Other issues have been raised for Rio, including crimes Members have pointed out, last year’s Durban summit against the environment, which I believe is important, on climate change demonstrated that expectations can as is challenging the primacy of economic growth as an sometimes be confounded, and I hope that we can indicator of the quality of success of economies. approach this summit in that spirit. The fact that it has Finally, the political message conveyed by who attends been demanded by the developing world rather than by the summit is particularly important. It is welcome that developed nations makes a significant difference. It will the Secretary of State has committed to attend. I would look to the themes of Rio, but it will do so in terms of love to see the Deputy Prime Minister flying the Lib everyone’s development. It will consider the concept of Dem flag there as well, but just for once we should put a green economy in the context of sustainable development party advantage aside and strongly urge the Prime and the institutional framework that will make it possible, Minister to attend Rio+20 if he possibly can. I think and I believe that it will do so in the light of the whole that would send out exactly the right message—that, Brundtland report rather than just the oft-quoted first 20 years on, we are turning youthful idealism into real line. It must concern itself with the carrying capacity of leadership and tangible action at governmental and the planet and with its concomitant—the need for global global level. equity in the sharing of the resources that go into sustainable development. 8.31 pm It might be salutary to compare that starting line Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): The with what we thought obtained at Rio 20 years ago. The Rio summit of 1992 represented what many people saw work of the Stockholm resilience centre at Stockholm as a comprehensive programme of aspiration towards university was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member an international understanding of sustainability and a for Gower (Martin Caton), and was examined in some move towards a sustainable world economy. As the hon. detail in the Select Committee’s report. The centre Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart) set asked what the planet could put up with in a number of 239 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 240 areas before its sustainability threshold was breached. way of proceeding, particularly if that tax was clearly What were the planet’s sustainability boundaries? It hypothecated for the purposes of global sustainable considered 10 of them: climate change, ocean acidification, development and global equity. stratospheric ozone depletion, the nitrogen cycle, the I agree with what the Secretary of State for Environment, phosphorus cycle, global freshwater use, land system Food and Rural Affairs said about her approach to Rio change, the rate of biodiversity loss, atmospheric aerosol in her recent speech to NGOs. Rio must be a workshop, loading, and chemical pollution. That work made it not a talking shop. I also agree that being green is clear that we have not only transgressed three of those integral to sustainable economic growth and that we boundaries—the rate of biodiversity loss, the nitrogen must put value on our carrying capacity so that it cycle and, of course, climate change—but have often becomes an integral part of our economic transactions, done so in a startlingly profligate way, and are close to not merely the fuel for them to take place. We must also doing so in three other areas: ocean acidification, the add the essential ingredient of global equity in respect phosphorus cycle, and land system change. of resources. I hope the Secretary of State will pledge Rio+20, then, is not just about how the planet can that the UK will push for that goal at Rio and call for carry sustainable development, but about how can we the Colombian agenda of sustainability with global row back and make the planet sustainable again, in equity to be moved decisively forward. terms of the carrying capacity that the Stockholm That is the shape of the outcome I want at Rio. I do resilience centre set out so carefully. We should, however, not want to be back here in 20 years talking about celebrate some of our international successes. For instance, Rio+40 and wondering what might have been. By then as a result of an international convention, we have it will be too late, as the Stockholm environment institute returned ozone depletion to a point at which carrying shows. capacity has been restored, and have done so through international negotiation and discussion in a way that 8.42 pm was not thought possible a few years ago. That analysis, however, tells us only some of the tale. The reason for George Eustice (Camborne and Redruth) (Con): As our transgression of the boundaries that I have mentioned this debate has shown, there is considerable scepticism is, overwhelmingly, the extent to which the developed about the prospect of getting much change. The hon. world has hoarded its access to the planet’s carrying Member for Gower (Martin Caton) said that in recent capacity at the expense of all other countries. evidence sessions there has been a downbeat response about what has happened over the past 20 years. The This is about sustainable development, but it is also media coverage of the build-up to Rio has revealed about a worldwide green economy that is based on concern about the fact that the summit will last for only fairness and equity. In that context, it is clear that the three days, rather than the 14 days of the original proposals that Colombia and Guatemala are bringing summit. Many people are saying in insistent tones that to Rio+20—there may not be time to organise their this must not just be a talking shop, which points to the sustainable development goals properly, but I think horrible possibility that it might end up being precisely they understand that, and see this as a starting point—do that. not counter the existing millennium goals. I refer to the adoption of sustainable development goals for all, not We must ask why we always seem to end up in such a just developing nations, relating to combating poverty, situation when addressing these issues. We feel very changing consumption patterns, promoting sustainable optimistic and set great targets, but a few years down human settlement patterns, biodiversity and forests, the line we find ourselves wringing our hands and oceans, water resources, advancing food security, and asking why nothing has happened. I am a great believer energy sustainability. All those are sustainability goals in the UN and I think it is fantastic that we can pull for the whole world: they do not simply mean that the countries together to discuss common challenges, but developed world is giving back some of what it took we must also be honest with ourselves about some of from the developing world in the first place. the UN’s limitations. It can bring people together to agree goals and targets, but it cannot take final decisions I think that the promotion of global resources will on policy or implement policies in individual countries. inevitably have to be developed in order to promote those goals. I hope that the United Kingdom will support My hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness the idea of a global transaction tax—even if it does not (Mr Stuart) talked about the idea of holding a summit support efforts to introduce such a tax at European of global legislators. I support that, and wish him the level—with the proceeds going to the development of best of luck in making it work. There is something more these sustainability goals. fundamental that we need to try to do alongside that, however: we must lead by example. We must come up with good ideas, implement them and demonstrate that Martin Horwood: I strongly support the hon. Gentleman they can work so that they become, as it were, contagious in making that call. The Government may have been and spread around the world and other Governments right to reject a financial transaction tax at an EU level, adopt them, too. which would have meant a real risk of driving businesses to other financial centres. A global financial transaction Mr Spencer: One of the major challenges that we, as tax would avoid that risk. a western democracy, face is that some of the things that we are trying to achieve are not very popular. For Dr Whitehead: The hon. Gentleman is right. I appreciate example, we are addicted to consuming, but we need to his continuing loyalty to his adopted coalition on the reduce our consumption. Does my hon. Friend therefore issue. I thought someone had to go it alone and advance agree that education of the next generation to ensure this idea, but he is right: a global transaction tax that that they are better than we have been in such regards everyone could unite around would be a far preferable will be key? 241 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 242

George Eustice: I absolutely agree with that, and I link some of the ambitions of the White Paper with was going to discuss it, because we do not spend anywhere current proposals for the reform of the common agricultural near enough time addressing these issues of our policy, because some of the criticisms of the White environment and biodiversity, and that is a great shame. Paper’s objectives are that there is not really enough The green campaign groups have been so incredibly money to make it work on the scale required, yet there successful at highlighting the problem of climate change is a huge amount of money in pillar 1 of the CAP. We that there has almost been an unintended consequence could have discussions about how that might be “greened” that has been unhelpful to the cause: the creation of a and it should not be beyond the wit of man to design a sense of resignation among people that there is nothing clever system—a market in environmental obligations— that they can do, there is huge impending doom and no whereby some farmers might be able to transfer their person on their own can make a difference. That is a environmental obligations to others. That may lead, in dangerous thing to encourage. some of the more marginal land in less favoured areas, to a critical mass of wildlife and wildlife corridors. We The over-emphasis on climate change in the might, thus, create the habitats that will allow wildlife to environmental debate has been in danger of eclipsing flourish in much a larger number than we will with a other equally important issues, such as biodiversity. I piecemeal approach. have encountered green campaigners who say, “Yes, but tackling climate change is the key to improving biodiversity. We have heard some interesting ideas and I welcome If we solve climate change, we solve a lot of other the fact that the Government have put this idea of things.” That is true up to a point, because climate valuing capital at the heart of their proposals. The change is a factor in undermining biodiversity, but we really important thing is for us to implement something must recognise that a range of other issues, such as that works. We will then be able to go back to other sustainable farming and deforestation, get neglected countries and not just talk about goals, but demonstrate and overlooked. how they can achieve those goals. That is what will be needed to move things forward. The danger of focusing too much on climate change in this debate is that it will not energise the public in a 8.49 pm way that other things can. Fundraisers at bodies such as the WWF do not put complicated issues to do with Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): I am carbon footprints on the front covers of their magazines; very grateful for the opportunity to take part in this they use pictures of baby tigers under threat of extinction, debate, and, as a member of the Environmental Audit and there is a reason for that. People care about our Committee, I too want to pay tribute to the hon. environment and about issues such as species extinction Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley) for and biodiversity, so we are missing a trick by not her commitment to do more and more work on the broadening the debate out to engage people more. environment across the whole House. For those reasons, I welcome the fact that the Secretary I want to focus in particular on recommendations of State and the Government have put the idea of 1 and 9 of the EAC report and the Government’s valuing our natural capital front and centre in their response to them. Recommendation 1 rightly observes approach to this summit, because that is the key message that we should get across. There are lots of other conflicting “there has been inadequate progress on sustainable development messages, but the one thing we can do is highlight how since the 1992 Rio Earth Summit.” we can place a value on our natural capital, and some Sadly, I think that that is something of a grave marvellous ideas have been set out in the natural understatement. Although there has certainly been some environment White Paper. One example cited has been progress, it has been very slow and incremental, whereas that pollinators can be worth £400 million a year to our the science demands an urgent paradigm shift. No economy. As a former fruit farmer, I can vouch for that, wonder our report states: because without the honey bees, the crop cannot be “There is still far to travel. Some ‘planetary boundaries’ having pollinated. been breached, and others approaching, make the task more Emotionally, I have a slight problem with some of urgent than ever.” these ideas, as I think that we should value the intrinsic I agree very strongly with that. There is enormous things about nature and the natural environment. An urgency behind the agenda as planetary boundaries are element of me thinks, “Isn’t it sad that it all has to be indeed being breached. If everybody in the world lived about bean counters trying to add up how much money as we do in the rich north, we would need another three a sparrow might be worth, rather than just valuing it planets to provide the resources and absorb the waste. I intrinsically?” That said, when the limits of regulation hardly need to say that we do not have three planets; we have been reached and innovative solutions are needed, have one, and it is already looking pretty degraded. sophisticated ideas of offsetting and environmental plans Recommendation 9, however, claims: to mitigate damage that might be caused in other areas “It would be unrealistic to expect the imperative for economic can play an important role. There is huge potential in growth not to be high on the agenda of many countries going to this area. Rio+20, developing and developed.” That is why I wish to finish by outlining one idea that My case is that as far as the developed countries are tries to combine all these things. How do we demonstrate concerned, we need a different imperative high on our that individuals can do things, so that people can see agenda. Indeed, the recommendation goes on to state: that they can make a difference? We heard a fascinating “The Government should resist any moves there might be to suggestion in a Select Committee on Environment, use the financial situation to dilute the extent of the environmental Food and Rural Affairs evidence session on the natural and social aspects of the green economy discussed at Rio+20. environment White Paper. Professor Hill, one of the Rather, it should emphasise…that environmental planetary boundaries leading authorities in this area, suggested that we try to will ultimately limit the room for growth.” 243 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 244

It is important to state in black and white that there are their parts to play, they are not going to get us there on limits to growth. I know that that is not a popular their own. In a planet with a rising population and perception or idea, but it is very clear that on a planet of rising expectations, to think that efficiency gains and finite resources with a rising population and rising technology alone will get us off the collision course we expectations, infinite economic growth simply is not are on is to be in fantasy land. We need behaviour possible. change as well and more education on population growth—an issue that no one has put on the table yet Martin Horwood: Does the hon. Lady agree with the this evening. Population is a controversial issue but it economist Kenneth Boulding, who said: has to be part of our discussions about a sustainable “Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in future. I am talking not about anything coercive, but a finite world is either a madman or an economist”? about education and the provision of family planning for those women who still need and want it in developing Caroline Lucas: I will forgive the hon. Gentleman for countries. I am talking about recognising that the impact taking one of my best lines, but I think that that is a of different populations is different in different places. very important point. I am glad to see that our sources The impact of our fewer numbers in the north is far are moving in the same direction. greater than that of higher numbers in the south, but The source to which I want to refer is a film, “The population still has to be part of the discussion. Age of Stupid”. I do not know whether many hon. Social justice also has to be part of the discussion. Members will have seen it, but it features Pete Postlethwaite The aim of meeting the needs of the present without as the sole survivor of a climate catastrophe. It is based compromising the ability of future generations to meet in 2050 and he is looking back to today. He looks their needs does not apply only to the rich or those in through all the newsreels—real, genuine newsreels with the global north—it has to apply to every citizen. Under all the evidence that we have around us that climate current trends, it looks as though there will be 9 billion change is happening—and he says, in words that still people by 2050, and the real challenge we face if we are make the hairs on the back of my neck go up in a shiver, serious about a green economy is how future populations “Why is it, knowing what we knew then, we didn’t act will be able to consume equally on a per capita basis when there was still time?” To me, that is just about the and still remain within resource constraints. I suggest most important question that we could ask. Given that that that could only be feasible if we in the rich north we have all this evidence that we must act, what is significantly reduced our consumption patterns and our stopping us? impact on the planet. Part of it is to do with the fact that for too long, a We have started to make some policies based on shift to a green economy has been portrayed as though recognising the need for constraint, starting with the we were talking about shivering around a candle in a Climate Change Act 2008. I believe, and the science cave. It has been portrayed too often as being about hair suggests, that we in the developed countries need to be shirts and we have assumed that if we scare the life out reducing our emissions by something like 90% by 2030, of people sufficiently with the terrible stories of what so I do not agree with the targets in that Act, but the will happen—and it will happen if we do not get off the architecture in it is incredibly important. The Government collision course with climate change—that, on its own, could do much worse than to mark the 20th anniversary will be enough to motivate people to change their of the Rio summit by amending the Act, first, to set behaviour. Yet, as we have seen, the evidence shows that targets that are in line with the science and, secondly, to that is not what will motivate behaviour change. include traded or embedded carbon. For too long it has Such change would be motivated by our painting a been too easy to outsource our responsibility for much much better picture—a much greener, more compelling of the carbon that is produced in order to make the vision—of what a zero-carbon economy would look products that we consume. The fact that the production like and by our making the point that it is about a better happily happens over in China, with the impact going quality of life. We should also make the point that the on to its balance sheet rather than on to ours, seems current economic model is not even working on its own grossly unfair to me. If we are importing products from terms, and we need look no further than the financial other countries, the carbon that is embedded in those crash to see that. Not only that—it is not actually products should be part of our calculations and audits. making those of us in the rich countries any happier There are also biodiversity constraints. Our consumption beyond a certain point. There is a lot of evidence that of resources has a knock-on effect for habitats, so that once basic needs are met, beyond a certain point more needs to be strictly regulated to prevent further loss of and more economic growth does not make us happier. biodiversity and, where possible, to reverse the losses The stress on turbo-consumerism is not increasing our that have already happened. well-being. I could not put it better than Professor Tim Jackson, a professor at the university of Surrey who Other hon. Members have talked about our current wrote the wonderful report, “Prosperity without growth?” fixation with economic growth, which means that we He has said that we over-emphasise the measure of that growth—gross domestic product—to the detriment of other measures of success. “spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need to create impressions that won’t last on people we don’t care about.” Really, our policy on growth is no more or less than a policy to increase GDP by a certain percentage each To me, that sums up more or less what we are doing year, but as others have said, GDP measures do not wrong. differentiate the social value of different forms of economic We need real change. We need to recognise that the activity or revenue and capital. A Government who use economy is a subset of the wider ecology and the up their capital—the country’s natural resources—and environment—not the other way around. We need to treat it as national income, can boast of having delivered recognise that, although technology and efficiency have growth and increased GDP. We have seen that on a vast 245 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 246

[Caroline Lucas] leading the green economy”. Its objective is to help secure a smooth transition to a green economy, which scale with the billions of pounds-worth of oil and gas can bring significant benefits to East Anglia. from the North sea that has been treated as revenue with no thought to the fact that that income is a one-off The LEP has been asked by the Government to take a boost to the economy. For 30 years it has made the UK UK lead in demonstrating how business can take advantage economy look much healthier than it actually has been, of the new markets for environmental goods and services, and instead of the proceeds being invested wisely in the and to support the strong stance that the UK has taken future—for example, on renewable energy facilities that nationally to reduce carbon and tackle climate change. we can use when the oil and gas run out—it has been The Government have given the LEP green economy used to fund consumer booms that have led to the pathfinder status and it is currently working up with inevitable busts. business leaders and academics proposals that demonstrate how the green economy is vital to the UK economic Perhaps worst of all, the use of GDP as a measure recovery and to sustainable growth. In April the LEP does not count the full costs of production, such as the will present to Government its manifesto, which will impact on our natural world and on people’s quality of bring together a wide range of best practice studies, as life. DEFRA’s natural environment White Paper suggests well as some innovative thinking on how to put low that we can produce metrics of natural environmental carbon at the heart of business opportunity and success. value for transactions, but we need to be clear that simply saying that the natural environment has a value In my view, one role that the Government should be is not, in itself, sufficient to ensure that it is internalised playing on the international stage at Rio is the same one in decision-making processes. I would also argue, as the as the New Anglia LEP is performing in this country. hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice) Rio provides us with the opportunity to showcase what was in some senses, that it is impossible to put a value the UK can do. We were at the forefront of the 19th on some resources. What value do we put on a liveable century industrial revolution. There is now the opportunity atmosphere? That is a public good, not a private good. for us to play the same role in a 21st century revolution, Relying on the markets to offer protection is therefore the transition to the green economy. insufficient. We need regulation as well. There are three advantages of green growth, the three Businesses need to be hugely involved in the project, Es—enhancing the environment, achieving a secure and and in some respects are far more advanced in their stable energy supply, and creating new employment thinking on this agenda than Ministers. We could learn opportunities. First, on the environmental front, it is from some of the businesses that are already beginning vital that we manage our natural resources in a prudent to think about what it would mean for them to live in a and responsible manner and reduce our dependence on steady state economy, rather than one that was based on fossil fuels. Given the vast offshore renewable resources more and more production and consumption. As others and extensive maritime engineering expertise in the have said, it is incredibly important that we send a very North sea off the East Anglian coast, the UK can be a clear message about the importance of the Rio Earth prime beneficiary of clean energy projects. Summit, and we would do that by ensuring that our own Secretary of State is there, but I join other hon. Secondly, it is important that we have a secure supply Members who have said strongly that the Prime Minister of energy, and that we are in control of our own destiny also needs to be there to send a strong message that this and not reliant on fossil fuel imports. Thirdly, the move matters, that this is urgent. The time that we have in this to the green economy creates significant employment Parliament—the next three or four years—will be critical opportunities. At present clean energy employs 250,000 as to whether we invest properly in getting off the people in the UK. With conducive Government policies collision course that we are on with the climate crisis. It this can grow to 500,000 by 2020. Moreover, retrofitting falls on our generation to do that. It is a huge responsibility, our houses through the forthcoming green deal provides but it is also an awesome opportunity. the opportunity not only to make the country’s housing stock more energy efficient and to drive down utility bills, but to help rejuvenate our dormant manufacturing 9pm and construction industries. Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): As a member of the Since May 2010 the Government have done much to Environmental Audit Committee, I am pleased to have promote the green economy. First, they have supported the opportunity to speak in this important debate. I research and development through the proposed technology shall start by paying tribute to my hon. Friend the and innovation centre for renewable energy and the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley) for proposed five renewable obligation certificates that support her passion, conviction and resolution in leading that and encourage wave and tidal technology. Committee. I shall limit my observations to the opportunities and challenges to be faced in the transition Secondly, they have provided a new streamlined planning to the green economy. process for determining applications for large infrastructure projects, which so far appears to be working well, based The forthcoming summit has two themes—the green on the feedback I have received from Scottish and economy in the context of sustainable development and Southern on its Galloper wind farm application and poverty eradication, and the institutional framework from East Anglia Offshore Wind on East Anglia ONE. for sustainable development. These themes are in many respects the same as those of a conference outside Thirdly, there have been important developments in Norwich that I shall be attending and speaking at this investment in sustainable infrastructure, with regard to Thursday. The New Anglia local enterprise partnership rail and the roll-out of superfast broadband across the is hosting a conference entitled “Norfolk and Suffolk— country by 2015, and in encouraging proposals for 247 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 248 investment in electricity infrastructure so that the demand Peter Aldous: The Government’s policy is a mixed-energy for energy can be better managed through a smart grid, approach—that is, nuclear, renewables and carbon capture, smart metering and, in due course, the development of as my hon. Friend said. I support that policy. I was a European super grid. concentrating my comments on the green economy, but Fourthly, working with the private sector is vital if we I agree with him. are successfully to realise the opportunities presented by the green economy. On the East Anglian coast, the 9.9 pm enterprise zone due to start in April in my constituency—in Lowestoft and adjoining Great Yarmouth—and the Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ designation of the two ports as centres for offshore Co-op): I share in the compliments that many Members renewable engineering will provide businesses with much- on both sides of the House have paid to the Committee needed support and will help to reinvigorate supply Chair, my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent chains. Moreover, the green investment bank can act as North (Joan Walley), who has done an excellent job in a catalyst for private sector investment. that role over the past year. I also apologise to her and to the Front Benchers for missing the opening speeches. Fifthly, and most importantly, on skills and advancing I am afraid I was delayed elsewhere, so I welcome the education, the most important thing we can do is invest opportunity, nevertheless, to make a few points in the in people. It is vital that people have the necessary skills debate. to take up the jobs that will be created in the green The hon. Member for Camborne and Redruth (George economy. The further education and apprenticeship Eustice) said that prior to his contribution the debate policies that are being enthusiastically promoted by my had been pessimistic in terms of the seriousness of the hon. Friend the Minister for Further Education, situation that people had portrayed, but I feel that Skills and Lifelong Learning provide an ideal foundation people were being a little optimistic, because there is a on which to build. We also need to promote the teaching danger of striking the wrong balance—between on the of science, technology, engineering and maths in our one hand not being so pessimistic that people are schools. discouraged from taking action, and on the other not The Rio summit presents the UK with an opportunity recognising the seriousness of the position that we all to showcase what we have been doing to promote the face. I know that the hon. Gentleman recognises that green economy. I am not suggesting that the Secretary seriousness, but, although we must always try to be of State should fly down to Rio, hopefully with the positive and see a way forward, we should also look at Prime Minister on the wing, to boast and to swank the underlying realities, particularly when discussing about the Government’s achievements. However, in a what has happened since the conference 20 years ago, measured and constructive way she, with the Prime when an agenda was set out on how the world might Minister by her side, can promote the green economy address its many environmental challenges. and show how a framework for sustainable development Members have already said that although there has can be laid down. I also ask that she supports the UN been progress things have, in many ways, gone backwards Secretary-General’s “Sustainable Energy for All by 2030” very badly over the past 20 years. The examples of initiative, which will be launched at the conference. climate change, deforestation, water shortages, melting On the home front, the Government must finish the ice caps and biodiversity have been mentioned, and in work they have started. There might be a temptation to most respects things have become a lot worse, rather water down the approach to sustainable development than better, over the past 20 years, so it is worth by adopting a “slightly green but business as usual” understanding where we are if we are going to think approach. This temptation must be resisted. Over the about how we move forward. past 20 months the Government have successfully set That point needs to be made before, dangerously, we out their stall, showing how they intend to move towards forget the pessimism because we want to be positive. I a green economy. The private sector has accepted the understand that that is important politically, but we invitation to work with them to achieve that goal. The must consider the underlying reality, because we have to Government must not let the private sector down and work out how we get the world community back on the must continue to work with it to bring to fruition the path to making the fundamental changes and securing three objectives: nurturing and looking after the the fundamental international agreements that are essential environment in a sustainable and responsible manner; if we are to address the challenges faced by our environment. achieving a low-carbon and secure energy supply with We know that Rio is not going to end with any less price volatility; and creating new and exciting jobs massive, great, super plans, or with any great international that can play an important role in leading the economic agreements. Since the failure to secure comprehensive recovery. and legally binding agreements in Copenhagen, the world community has undoubtedly gone backwards, David Mowat: My hon. Friend is using the terms and Rio is not going to reverse that movement, but “green economy” and “renewables” as though they were what Rio can do—and not just Rio, but the other the same as decarbonisation. As the hon. Member for meetings that take place over the next few months, of Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) explained, we have which Rio is just a part—is to go for relatively modest to cut our carbon emissions by 80%, or even 90%, by 2050. objectives and to set out future pathways that, at the Currently, about 2.5% of our energy comes from renewables. same time, put back on the agenda our attempts to Does my hon. Friend accept that other forms of low-carbon secure the wider international agreements that we need. energy have a major part to play, because he has not Rio can, for example, address the food and agriculture mentioned them so far in his remarks? I of course mean issues to which Members have referred, and encourage nuclear and carbon capture and storage. the exchange of technologies and ideas on the green 249 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 250

[Mark Lazarowicz] people are driven into poverty by rising food prices, with food and water scarcity causing civil unrest and economy worldwide, an issue on which we in the UK war. have an opportunity to set an agenda from which other The Government, together with non-governmental countries can benefit. We can try to ensure that the organisations such as Christian Aid, are rightly taking climate finance funds that were promised at Copenhagen, the lead on this, and civil society is very active. More at Cancun and then at Durban are delivered, and we significant, and more sustainable in some ways, is the can look for progress on deforestation. Some progress lead taken by businesses, including British businesses. has been made, but in many areas matters are going Unilever wants within 10 years to double its size, halve backwards not forwards, and we certainly need to push its carbon footprint for production and source all raw action on deforestation much higher up the international materials sustainably. Rolls-Royce is reducing carbon agenda. emissions and saving £26 million per year. I understand We should not, however, delude ourselves into thinking from DEFRA that UK businesses could save £23 billion that such changes and progress are going to be enough. per year by using raw materials, energy and water more Pathways, road maps and signposts are all important, efficiently. but at the end of the day we need to secure the type of While we undoubtedly see great challenges in the internationally binding agreements that were sought at increasing global population, we also see great opportunities Copenhagen on climate change, on tackling deforestation, in the global market for low-carbon and environmental on food, on agriculture and on land use. goods and services, which are worth some £3 trillion These kinds of changes are essential. It is not going and growing at 5% per year. Green issues and economic to happen this year—it may not happen for some years issues are not divorcees but marrieds, with the foundation to come—but we must try to get the world to move in of their marriage being natural capital. We need to put the right direction if we want to save the planet from the value of nature at the heart of the marriage between irreversible degradation. Rio can point us in that direction. the economy and the environment. The Government If we can start to move forward after a few years of are right to promote green accounting and the auditing delay and backward movement internationally—not of the nation’s rivers, forests and other landscapes. The because of this Government, who have played a fairly ecosystems analysis started under the previous Government good role in these issues following the work of the and followed up under this Government is one of the previous Government—then at least Rio will have done best pieces of literature to come out of Government, something. I hope that we can approach the negotiations and it is of wonderful value. It is a useful tool for us at Rio and the other international events over the next domestically and a model that can be adopted by other few months in that spirit. countries that recognise its value—indeed, its financial value. We all know the cost of ignoring nature, and it is 9.15 pm therefore important to put a price on nature. I hope that that will be followed through at the Rio summit. Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): I apologise for missing some of this excellent debate, but We are debating the resources that we want to invest it was for a good reason. I was meeting representatives in preparation for the Rio summit. Those resources are of Christian Aid, who are very interested in the debate important and they must go to the right place. They having been much engaged in this issue; indeed, a must lead to action, not just talk. Other hon. Members briefing was sent to hon. Members. They reminded me have spoken about that. that this week the high-level UN Commission on The proposals for sustainable development goals that Sustainable Development published a report that set came out of Colombia and Guatemala have been the parameters for April’s G20 meeting of Ministers on commended and adopted. They are an important way sustainable energy. That is a very important meeting forward. They are practical and will lead to action, that will set the ground for the Rio summit. I invite the rather than just to more talk about targets and goals. Minister to respond positively in seeing Rio as a practical They mirror the millennium development goals. That way of following up the meeting to ensure that there is approach is important, because it means that at Rio genuine progress. there is the prospect not just of fine-sounding statements As we approach Rio—we all say this in grand terms, and communiqués and green-sounding rhetoric, which but it is true—we have the opportunity to shape the we saw a lot of in 1992 as well as the international future of not just one generation but several generations, agreements, but of action. The sustainable development and they are growing generations. We now have 7 billion goals align properly with practical realities and priorities people on the planet. In 1992, the world population at national level and will drive things forward. stood at 5.5 billion, so there has been an increase of We must also put out some warning signals. In 2000, 1.5 billion in just 19 years—an increase equivalent to seven millennium development goals came out of the total global population in 1900. That is the amazing the process and suddenly people said, “What about the level of growth that is taking place. Those 7 billion environment as a goal?” They then went back into the people are affected by the global economic crisis, in conference and came up with an eighth development many cases very much so, but also by the environmental goal. We need to ensure that we align the sustainable crisis facing this generation and future generations. This development goals with the millennium development Government, and other Governments, have an excellent goals. They need to coalesce. More than that, the sustainable opportunity to make the case that we can tackle these development goals that come out of Rio should act as a economic and environmental challenges. The dramatically catalyst to ensure that the millennium development increasing population means that our natural resources goals are achieved. We do not want a parallel universe cannot cope. There has been an increase of nearly 150% with different development goals. They need to work in real-terms commodity prices, and each year 44 million together properly. 251 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 252

To put it in a straightforward way, we need to improve I will not dwell on climate change, other than to say the situation for the poorest communities across the that even if it is not happening, those other trends are globe. We must banish the need for young people to go real. They are mathematical observations, and there is miles and miles to forage for firewood in forests. We must no doubting them. If even the most conservative predictions ensure that there is sustainable energy so that young people about climate change are accurate, those problems will do not need to do that, but can instead go into education be massively compounded. One has to wonder what is and help to meet the millennium development goals. the purpose of an economy that is so utterly divorced I welcome the Government’s approach of bringing in from basic reality that it is still growing even as it is business, which has been mentioned by hon. Members. eroding the very basis of life. We know that change is As I have said, businesses are taking the lead. The going to happen. The current trends clearly cannot Secretary of State has invited businesses to put forward continue for ever—primary level mathematics tells us their ideas. The businesses that are doing things such as that they have to end at some point, and it is unlikely to sustainable accounting and that are taking the lead in be a happy ending. Change is going to happen either this country should also be invited to take the lead in through our choice or because it is forced upon us. Rio and to make the case. If we make the case, together I accept that if we were to ask people to list their top with business, for a green and sustainable economy, we priorities and concerns nowadays, the environment would can be optimistic that Rio will lead to action for the not feature at the top for many or even most of them. benefit of the world’s children, and indeed their Someone at the bottom of the pecking order in this grandchildren and great-grandchildren. country worries about food, shelter and what school to send their children to—concerns that, unfortunately, 9.22 pm are affecting more and more people in this country as a result of the economic conditions in which we find Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): I congratulate ourselves. However, that does not take away from the and thank the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North fact that, logically, the environment is still the biggest (Joan Walley), not only for initiating this important priority of all. Environmental concerns are neither a debate, but for chairing the Environmental Audit Committee luxury nor a frivolity. so expertly and brilliantly for the two years since the election. She has done extraordinary things with the I believe that we are going to have a debate on Greece Committee. tomorrow, and the Chamber will be packed. I will be Every single environmental indicator that matters is here myself, and I certainly do not want to imply that heading in the wrong direction. It does not matter what is happening in Greece is not a disaster on a which area one looks at. A number of Members have significant scale, but it does not compare to the problems spoken about what is happening to our forests, so I will that we face in our relationship with the natural world. not dwell on that but simply say that since 2000, just Future generations, perhaps our own children, will live 12 years ago, the equivalent of the land space of Germany with an enormous cloud of incredible uncertainty hovering has been lost. That should not have been so difficult to over them. say. [Laughter.] I should not be laughing, because it is a My hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate staggering and appallingly depressing statistic. We have (Mr Burrowes) listed a number of concerns—I believe also learned that 80% of the world’s fish stocks have he was citing research by Christian Aid. I will not repeat either collapsed or are on the brink of collapse. That is them, but I will say that they are not abstract concerns 15 of the world’s 17 major fisheries. We know that most for people around the world. We would do well to take if not all of the world’s bread baskets are shrinking note of that. rapidly. The Gobi desert is growing by roughly 10,000 In questions to Foreign Office Ministers today, a sq km every year—I could go on and on. number of Members discussed Somalia. They talked All that results from a gross model that effectively about action on pirates, what we are going to do to involves cashing in the planet and the natural world for police the borders and how we are going to prevent the short-term consumer goods. What is that actually achieving? problems from recurring. What is too often left out is In the 20 years since 1992, the year of the first Rio the unavoidable correlation between the emergence of summit, we have seen a 162% rise in world GDP, but pirates and the exhaustion of the oceans around the apart from the devastation that that has caused to the coast of Somalia—the hoovering up of the very last natural world around us, what has it actually delivered fish, unfortunately by European trawlers. Fishing for the world? communities lost their access to fish and their livelihoods According to the UN, 1 billion people live in urban and took to an activity that, unfortunately, is so much squalor and more than 1 billion are described as living more financially attractive that we are unlikely to get in conditions in which they are chronically undernourished them out of it without the use of police. That is one —that is a UN Food and Agriculture Organisation illustration of what happens when we undermine basic figure. Between a quarter and a third of the world’s ecological systems and destroy ecosystems. The world’s population live in a state of persistent deprivation. Just poorest are the first in line to suffer, because they are the last week, KPMG produced a brilliant report—I wish I most likely to depend on the free services provided by could remember the title—predicting among other things nature. that food prices will rise by up to 90% by 2030. For most What are we to do? Resource scarcity will define the people in this country that would not necessarily be a world from now on. That is not a matter of opinion; it is disaster, because if we spend 5% to 10% of our budget a matter of basic mathematical fact and there is no on food, even a 100% increase would still allow some avoiding it. Businesses will have to design out of their wiggle room; but for somebody living in a country business model waste, pollution and the use of scarce where people spend 60% of their income on food, such resources. We will have to rearrange our economy and an increase would be absolutely devastating. break the link between economic growth and environmental 253 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 254

[Zac Goldsmith] 9.32 pm devastation. We will have to learn to live within our means. Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): May I reassure Like others, I hope that Rio will, among other things, the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) provide an opportunity for real solutions to be showcased. that I was more concerned that he may be a tenant of Dolphin square, where E.ON is the only provider of No country in the world is doing all the things that energy? are necessary to drive us towards a sustainable future, but there are shining examples in most countries. Japan, I congratulate the Chair of the Committee, my for example, has an enormous amount to teach us hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North about waste. It is much closer to achieving zero-waste (Joan Walley), on her excellent contribution and on status than we are. Costa Rica has done extraordinary her Committee’s work scrutinising the Government’s things with marine protected areas to boost the viability environmental policy. She is an environmental giant, of its fishing communities, and it is succeeding. Denmark and I have been pleased to sit in her shadow. Absolutely has done extraordinary things with its decentralised in character, she took an understanding approach to the energy infrastructure. The list goes on. absence of the Secretary of State. I shall follow her example, but I want to put it on record that I find it I shall not dwell on the natural capital work that the deeply disappointing that the Secretary of State is not Government in this country have done, other than to present. Will the Minister indicate when she will be in say that it is pioneering. That work puts us in front the House so that she can engage in debate? I understand the with, strangely enough, South Korea which has done a importance of engaging with business, NGOs and the lot of work on valuing natural capital. I hope that we public, and that her speech in London’s Guildhall is an can take that work to Rio and showcase it as an area in important part of that. A Government Member quoted which Britain is taking the lead. Ban Ki-moon on the role of politicians in this debate, The Government are not just valuing natural capital. so it is only fair to ask that the Secretary of State, as the They have been bullish in trying to ensure that within lead person on Rio+20, comes to the House at some the Rio agenda there is proper discussion of the need to point to give us a chance to debate the issues with her. phase out fossil fuel subsidies. The International Energy Agency figure for how much we spent subsidising the I welcome the Committee’s report on the preparations consumption of fossil fuels last year is $409 billion. for the Rio+20 summit in June, and I look forward to Clearly, the world cannot become less dependent on hearing the Minister’s response to the report and the fossil fuels without our tackling those subsidies. many questions raised by Members on both sides in their informed and passionate contributions. The tone Finally—this relates to the Minister’s work—I hope of the debate has been very positive, although many we can ensure that marine issues feature heavily in the Members have spoken about the dire challenges that we discussions at Rio. I believe we are responsible, through face. I congratulate the Government Whips for keeping our overseas territories, for around 10% of the world’s their climate change deniers off their Benches. oceans. There is an amazing opportunity for us to create a network, as I know we are already doing, of Rio+20 is the biggest global gathering on sustainable marine protected areas and vast nature reserves that development since the original summit in 1992. It is will benefit not only biodiversity, but coastal fishing crucial that it delivers outcomes and sets down some communities, who are running out of fish and things to serious policy milestones for 2015 and beyond. The catch. That will probably entail taking on vested interests previous Labour Government were the first on the and some of the industrial mega-trawlers, but those planet to enshrine climate change targets in law. Given types of organisation and operations are not compatible the UK’s global leadership on environmental issues, we with a sustainable future. want to work with the Secretary of State and the Government on a cross-party basis to give that same Not only are countries showing us what can be done, leadership at Rio+20. but companies are also doing so. Companies in the most polluting sectors, such as construction, are showing I have to tell the Minister that part of that support what can be done. Uponor, based in London, has involves talking about the Government’s record at home. become a zero-waste company.Construction is responsible My hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Test for about a third of this country’s waste, so if that (Dr Whitehead) said that this is a test for all nations, so company has managed to become a zero-waste company, let us look at the Government’s record. They have a the hope must be that other companies will do the same. poor record on protecting our forests and woodlands. We must take the best practice today and roll it into the More than half a million people signed a national norm tomorrow. We do that only by looking at what petition against the plan to sell off the public forestry others are achieving. estate last year, forcing the Minister and Secretary of Big energy companies—I cannot bear to name them— State to perform an embarrassing U-turn. However, the have shown that they can buy tens of times more sell-off has merely been put on hold until the report solution per £1 by saving energy than by making energy. from the independent panel is published in May. The I will name E.ON, which spent £250 million as part of panel is due to report before Rio. Will the Minister its energy company obligation and saved the equivalent guarantee that while the Secretary of State is waxing of 2.3 Kingsnorth power plants. What would it have lyrical on the international stage about reforestation, cost the company to build 2.3 Kingsnorths—20, 30, she will not return to a fire sale of our forest assets back 40 or even 50 times more? That is the rate of return for home? investing in energy efficiency—I can see the shadow The previous Labour Government committed the Minister doing the maths, so I have probably got it UK to establishing an ecologically coherent network of wrong, but we cannot argue that energy efficiency does marine conservation zones by 2012. The Government’s not pay. decision to delay their implementation is a bitter blow 255 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 256 for the 1 million stakeholders who took part in the It is quite an achievement that in less than two years consultation process. How can the Government provide the Government have alienated businesses over green leadership on the global stage on marine conservation investment, along with the National Trust, the Campaign when they have failed to meet their own deadline for to Protect Rural England and The Daily Telegraph, designating marine conservation zones? The EU is in because of their plans to rip up the planning rules that the process of radically reforming the common fisheries have protected our environment for 60 years. The Minister policy to provide a sustainable and profitable future for of State, Cabinet Office wants to do to the planning UK fishermen. That reform might pose serious challenges system what the Chancellor has done to environmental for the UK fleet on issues such as maximum sustainable regulations, tearing up best practice and replacing it yields, discards and capacity. with a 50-page document. When asked by the Select I was hugely impressed by the contribution from the Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs hon. Member for Richmond Park, although his reputation about the Cabinet Office’s intentions, the Secretary of preceded him, when he spoke about the need to protect State replied: developing countries. What proposals will the Minister “I am not in a position to confirm or deny” bring to the table to ensure that the EU fleet will not the story, adding: resort to unsustainable fishing off the coast of developing countries to offset the conservation of stocks closer to “I was not at such a meeting.” home? What about marine protection in overseas territories, That is exactly the problem with this Secretary of State: which the hon. Gentleman also spoke about? Some 90% she is always outside the room when the big boys are of our marine biodiversity is in overseas territories. making the decisions. Labour designated the Chagos islands as a marine I want to try to strike a positive note, so let me move reserve. What plans does the Minister have to protect on to what Labour sees as the key priorities and biodiversity in these areas? opportunities at Rio. Our leadership at home is key to The hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) our credibility on the global stage, and if Government spoke about the record of some companies in reducing Members do not get that, we have a problem. When it their carbon footprint, but again I want to turn to the comes to food poverty at home, we see rising food prices Government’s record at home. Earlier this month, the and families forced to rely on charities and food banks. Secretary of State said that she would join the call for Last year the Trussell Trust, one of the largest food Rio to drive uptake of sustainable businesses practices charities, opened a food bank every week. The amazing “in particular transparent and coherent sustainability reporting”.— charity FareShare, which I visited yesterday, works with [Official Report, 9 February 2012; Vol. 540, c. 44WS.] other charities to feed 35,000 people a day in the UK. Rio rightly places food security and ensuring a sustainable, Carbon reporting is a vital connection in driving up healthy and safe food supply for the world’s population standards in green jobs and growth, yet when it comes at the top of its agenda. The hon. Members for Cheltenham to carbon reporting at home, the Government are dragging (Martin Horwood) and for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline their feet. Will the Minister guarantee that his Government Lucas) both have a history with Oxfam. As Oxfam has keep their promise and make it mandatory for UK highlighted in its Grow campaign, we need to tackle the companies to report their carbon emissions before Rio? structural causes of food crises, addressing the effects of The deadline in the Climate Change Act 2008 is April 2012. speculation on food prices, the impact of biofuels and Will the Department meet that deadline—yes or no? land grabs. The answer is not producing more food One of the Government’s first acts was to abolish the alone, but producing more food with less impact. We Sustainable Development Commission, their own green need to mitigate the impact of climate change and watchdog. This Government have invented their very invest in agricultural practices and sustainable livelihoods own approach to sustainable development at home, and in developing countries. that is before we even mention the influence of the As the hon. Members for Cheltenham and for Richmond Chancellor on this debate. He sees the environment as a Park both said, resource scarcity is the biggest challenge barrier to growth and thinks that the green agenda is facing the planet. With the population expected to bad for business and jobs. In his autumn statement, he reach 9 billion by 2050, Rio is an opportunity to reach a said that burdening British business with environmental global agreement on how we can ensure access to water, goals would mean that food and energy for all, alongside the long-term challenges “businesses will fail, jobs will be lost, and our country will be of climate change and eco-system management. The poorer.”—[Official Report, 29 November 2011; Vol. 536, c. 807.] interconnected nature of resource scarcity means that Yet the reality is that this could not be further from the political leadership is vital. On this side of the House, truth. The UK is falling behind because of this we are taking a joined-up approach, working across Government’s policies and their lack of environmental shadow Departments to reflect the broad range of ambition. The hon. Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous) issues that will be discussed in June. Will the Minister spoke about the growth in green jobs, but since this tell us when he last met with his colleagues in the Government came to power, the UK has slipped from Department of Energy and Climate Change and the third in the world for investment in green growth to Department for International Development, and what 13th, behind such countries as Brazil and India. In discussions they had about their priorities for Rio? 2009, investment in alternative energy and clean technology As many Members have said, GDP alone is a limited reached £7 billion. That fell by more than 70% the year measure of growth and does not take into account the this Government were elected. The latest figures for last other pillars of sustainable development—the social year seem to suggest that if there was any pick-up, it and environmental costs. Labour agrees that one of the was very modest. Investment levels are still considerably key priorities for Rio should be to develop sustainable below what they were in 2009. development goals and set down serious policy milestones 257 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 258

[Fiona O’Donnell] We are well aware of what is at stake here. This has been well articulated by the hon. Members for Gower for 2015 and beyond. The Committee recommends that (Martin Caton) and for Brighton, Pavilion and by my the Government should engage with European countries hon. Friends the Members for Enfield, Southgate to ensure that the EU pushes strongly for sustainable (Mr Burrowes), for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), for development goals ahead of Rio+20. Indeed, the hon. Sherwood and for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith), Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer) spoke of the need among many others. The key point is that the UK must for countries to work together. With just over four and will take a leading role to secure a successful months until the conference, will the Minister tell us outcome in Rio. what discussions he has had with other EU member Since our response to the Committee’s report, we states, and what progress has been made? have—as the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North The Secretary of State claims that she is ambitious. said—received the zero draft that will act as the basis of However, on forests, marine conservation zones, carbon negotiations until June. We also have recommendations reporting, sustainable development and food poverty, from the Secretary-General’s high-level panel on global the ambition of this Government has not been matched sustainability, which was launched in London this week. at home. We need an ambitious Government who will With just four months to go, momentum is building and lead the world on sustainable development. The Secretary we are getting a clearer idea of what countries, NGOs of State said that Rio+20 had to be and businesses are calling for. I should therefore like to “a workshop, not a talking shop”. make clear the UK priorities for Rio, which will go some way to addressing concerns raised here today, If the Government are to have any credibility, it will not although I will of course pick up any further points. be enough for them to talk the talk; they will have to walk the walk, too. I want to see Governments stand up at Rio and make a clear statement—a political declaration—that sustainable development is the only way forward. We need to make it absolutely clear that long-term, sustainable, climate- 9.45 pm resilient growth is possible only if we use natural resources The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for sustainably and tackle poverty. In the UK, we have Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): shown our commitment to green growth through a raft I should like to start by thanking the hon. Member for of policies and initiatives, including our publication Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley) for securing this “Enabling the Transition to a Green Economy”, which timely debate, and by welcoming the contributions from provides businesses with the certainty and clarity to both sides of the House. These discussions, and the innovate, invest and grow in a green way. strong parliamentary interest in them, are an important part of informing our approach to the negotiations. Fiona O’Donnell rose— The hon. Lady led the debate with real knowledge and power. With the exception of the final speech, there has Richard Benyon: I want to make a bit of progress, if been fantastic cross-party support today.The hon. Member the hon. Lady will allow me. for East Lothian (Fiona O’Donnell) really read the We have established the green investment bank with mood of the House wrongly tonight, and she should £3 billion-worth of funding. Together with the green reflect on that. deal, it will accelerate green investment by businesses The Chairman of the Select Committee, the hon. and households. We have introduced a carbon floor Member for Stoke-on-Trent North, articulated a concept price that will come into force from April next year. We that is considered irrelevant and old fashioned in some have published the natural environment White Paper—the quarters, but it is one that I believe to be totally relevant Government’s vision of how to protect and improve the to the debate on Rio and on sustainability. It is the natural environment over the next 50 years—with concept of stewardship. When we talk about the stewardship 92 recommendations for action. of our planet, we are talking about the future for our Yesterday morning I stood at the top of the Wiltshire children and grandchildren—a point that my hon. Friend downs with a really enthusiastic group of farmers and the Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer) made particularly people from the local community as we launched one of well. The hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline the nature improvement areas—a really exciting prospect. Lucas) also made that point. This is the time to get this At Rio, we must ensure that the commitment to green right. The hon. Member for Southampton, Test growth is secured at the international level—it needs (Dr Whitehead) raised the prospect of Rio+40, and tangible outcomes—which will help all countries move said that it would be a tragedy if we did not put in place to a sustainable growth path. the measures that we hope will come from this conference, and did not hold politicians of this generation to their Fiona O’Donnell: The Minister cannot have it both commitments. ways. He cannot come to this House singing the praises Our understanding of the need to green our economy of his Department and then not expect us to hold it and promote sustainable development has improved accountable for its record at home. Will he give a dramatically over the past 20 years. It is no longer commitment now to mandatory reporting of carbon something that we should do, but something that we emissions? need to do for future prosperity. It has been pointed out tonight that more than 1 billion people are living in Richard Benyon: I will come on to that. I said a little poverty, that two thirds of the world’s ecosystems are in earlier that the hon. Lady had misread the mood of the decline and that climate change will cost up to a quarter House—and she still seems to be doing so. I will answer of global gross domestic product. her points later. 259 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 260

A key part of Rio will be an agreement on the The natural capital committee will advise the Government sustainable development goals—a priority for the UK, on our natural capital, and our work with the Office for on which we are working closely with our EU and National Statistics will embed it in our environmental international partners. There is a lot to do on fleshing accounts by 2020. Our guidance entitled “Accounting out SDGs, but we want to lead the way in helping to for Environmental Impacts” will help Departments to develop this thinking. The Secretary of State met a reflect the value of nature in decision-making. Our group of Ministers in Nairobi last week and the Colombian ecosystems market taskforce—led by Ian Cheshire, Environment Minister here today. We need a renewed chief executive of the Kingfisher group—will look at focus on tackling the major sustainability issues of opportunities for businesses in new green goods and access to food, sustainable energy and water. services, which form a vital part of our work in the future. Our work with the World Bank on its “Wealth We need to focus on global challenges. Agriculture, Accounting and Valuation of Ecosystem Services” will water and energy are fundamental to our economy, and pilot new approaches to wealth accounting in developing provide livelihoods for the world’s poorest people. By countries. 2030, the world will need at least 50% more food, As has been said during today’s debate, we also need 45% more energy and 30% more water. These are massive greater resource efficiency and a commitment to reducing issues. We have tried to do our bit in government by inefficient and environmentally harmful subsidies, including reflecting the concerns that we know future generations fossil fuel subsidies. In the UK alone, resource efficiency will face—for example in our water White Paper published could provide £23 billion-worth of savings, or £2.9 trillion just before Christmas, which set out how we will approach globally per annum, and the EU is well placed to lead the resilience of our economy and natural environment on that through its “Roadmap to a Resource Efficient to provide the water we need in the future. Europe”. We need a clear course of action on food security and As the Government have noted, action by Governments sustainable agriculture, which is climate smart, reduces alone will not be enough. Rio needs to engage the waste and takes into account water resources. We need private sector actively so that it plays its part in delivering to be clear that access to clean and safe water is a a greener economy through trade, innovation and prerequisite for green growth. Just last week, we were investment. However, a Government can facilitate the discussing drought here in the UK—a country famous transition by, for instance, reducing environmentally for its rainfall. In China, which has 20% of the world’s harmful subsidies. A number of Members mentioned population but only 6% of its water resources, half of fishing. Let me assure my hon. Friend the Member for which are undrinkable, access to water resources will Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) that the Government’s only become more important. The UN Secretary-General’s agenda on fisheries partnership agreements is right up “Sustainable Energy for All” initiative is an important there in terms of reform of the common fisheries policy. step towards increasing sustainable energy, energy efficiency It is entirely wrong that, having failed to put our own and the use of renewables. house in order, we are now inflicting bad management on some of the people in this world who can least afford We want to see outcomes that will put sustainability it, and I assure my hon. Friend that dealing with that is at the heart of decision making. This includes a commitment an absolute priority for me. to go beyond gross domestic product so as to account We will be able to assist by incentivising research and for natural and social values, too. Many hon. Members development and innovation, by increasing resource touched on this issue. It is vital that we articulate it not efficiency, to which we have referred in the context of just in the high-level conversations—or high-falutin the water White Paper, by getting price signals right—I ones, as one hon. Member put it—but at the local level. have mentioned the carbon floor in that connection—by Several hon. Members stressed that we have to carry valuing and accounting for natural resources, by making people with us in these arguments. I was particularly the best use of standards and voluntary approaches impressed with how my hon. Friend the Member for such as labelling and procurement, and by developing Sherwood brought the argument down to the household indicators of green growth. We have been engaging level, as it is crucial to impact on households now and in businesses in relation to possible outcomes from Rio, the future. for example through the Green Economy Council. The UK has a lot to share at Rio: through our Caroline Lucas rose— national ecosystems assessment, through the Prime Minister’s work on well-being and through work stemming Richard Benyon: I am sorry; I cannot give way. from our natural environment White Paper, we can We know that UK businesses are world leaders in begin to put natural value at the heart of decision green growth. Marks and Spencer saved more than making. A number of Members referred to the £70 million last year through a combination of efficiency Government’s agenda in that regard. I was particularly savings and new business. That compares with £50 million taken by what was said by my hon. Friend the Member the year before. for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice) and by the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion. We are trying Joan Walley rose— to value natural capital in the context of our economic well-being, of which it is a vital element, and we will Richard Benyon: I have only a minute left, but I must shortly announce the membership of the natural capital give way to the hon. Lady. committee. However, it is impossible to value a view: Joan Walley: I hoped that, before our time ran out, there must still be an element of the spiritual and the Minister would tell us whether the Prime Minister uplifting benefits of nature that we all experience, and it would be going to the summit, and when we could is important that we articulate that. expect an announcement about that. 261 Rio+20 Summit28 FEBRUARY 2012 Rio+20 Summit 262

Richard Benyon: A very strong message has been VOTE ON ACCOUNT, 2012-13 conveyed by this debate. The hon. Lady knows that I cannot give an absolute commitment one way or the DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT other. As was made clear to her Committee, the Prime Resolved, Minister thinks that this is an absolute priority. The Secretary of State will be going, and whether or not the That, for the year ending with 31 March 2013, for expenditure Prime Minister can go will be announced in the near by the Department for Transport— future. (1) resources, not exceeding £3,413,771,000, be authorised, on account, for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1756, As I was saying and as was said earlier, businesses are (2) resources, not exceeding £3,478,411,000, be authorised, on leading the way, and to an extent Government must account, for use for capital purposes as so set out, and follow. We know that the Brazilians are planning to (3) a sum, not exceeding £5,850,719,000, be granted to Her bring non-governmental organisations and the private Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated sector together before the ministerial segment, and I Fund, on account, and applied for expenditure on the use of hope that a range of UK businesses and NGOs will resources authorised by Parliament. help to shape the negotiations that follow. We have also encouraged the Brazilians to hold a trade fair to showcase DEPARTMENT FOR ENVIRONMENT,FOOD AND RURAL the opportunities that the transition to a green economy AFFAIRS can offer. It is important to note that politicians will not just be talking to each other: there will be engagement Resolved, with business, the voluntary sector, NGOs and, of course, That, for the year ending with 31 March 2013, for expenditure Governments. by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs— These are our high-level priorities for Rio. The areas (1) resources, not exceeding £1,079,958,000, be authorised, on account, for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1756, where we think we can make a real difference include the sustainable development goals, agriculture and energy, (2) resources, not exceeding £172,643,000, be authorised, on valuing natural capital and corporate sustainability. account, for use for capital purposes as so set out, and Rio is above all a negotiation, and we will be working (3) a sum, not exceeding £1,106,539,000, be granted to Her Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated hard with the EU Commissioner and member states to Fund, on account, and applied for expenditure on the use of ensure that Europe has a strong voice. We will also need resources authorised by Parliament. to work with our international— The Speaker then put the Questions on the outstanding Estimates (Standing Order No. 55). 10 pm Debate interrupted, and Question deferred (Standing Order No. 54). ESTIMATES, 2011-12 (NAVY) VOTE A The Speaker put the deferred Questions (Standing Resolved, Order No. 54). That, during the year ending with 31 March 2012, modifications in the maximum numbers in the Reserve Naval and Marines ESTIMATES, VOTE ON ACCOUNT, 2012-13 Forces set out in Supplementary Votes A 2011-12, HC 1745, be authorised for the purposes of Part 1 of the Reserve Forces Act 1996.—(Mr Dunne.) DEPARTMENT FOR CULTURE,MEDIA AND SPORT Resolved, That, for the year ending with 31 March 2013, for expenditure ESTIMATES, 2011-12 (ARMY) VOTE A by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport— Resolved, (1) resources, not exceeding £2,705,167,000, be authorised, on That, during the year ending with 31 March 2012, modifications account, for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1756, in the maximum numbers in the Reserve Land Forces set out in (2) resources, not exceeding £390,871,000, be authorised, on Supplementary Votes A 2011-12, HC 1745, be authorised for the account, for use for capital purposes as so set out, and purposes of Part 1 of the Reserve Forces Act 1996.—(Mr Dunne.) (3) a sum, not exceeding £2,660,065,000, be granted to Her Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated Fund, on account, and applied for expenditure on the use of ESTIMATES, 2012-13 (NAVY) VOTE A resources authorised by Parliament. Resolved, That, during the year ending with 31 March 2013, a number SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES, 2011-12 not exceeding 39,350 all ranks be maintained for Naval Service and that numbers in the Reserve Naval and Marines Forces be authorised for the purposes of Parts 1, 3, 4 and 5 of the Reserve HOME OFFICE Forces Act 1996 up to the maximum numbers set out in Votes A Resolved, 2012-13, HC 1735.—(Mr Dunne.) That, for the year ending with 31 March 2012, for expenditure by the Home Office— (1) further resources, not exceeding £66,029,000, be authorised ESTIMATES, 2012-13 (ARMY) VOTE A for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1755, Resolved, (2) further resources, not exceeding £4,421,000, be authorised That, during the year ending with 31 March 2013, a number for use for capital purposes as so set out, and not exceeding 121,540 all ranks be maintained for Army Service (3) a further sum, not exceeding £173,266,000, be granted to and that numbers in the Reserve Land Forces be authorised for Her Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated the purposes of Parts 1, 3, 4 and 5 of the Reserve Forces Act 1996 Fund and applied for expenditure on the use of resources authorised up to the maximum numbers set out in Votes A 2012-13, HC 1735.— by Parliament. (Mr Dunne.) 263 Rio+20 Summit 28 FEBRUARY 2012 264

ESTIMATES, 2012-13 (AIR) VOTE A That the Chairman of Ways and Means, Mr Chancellor Resolved, of the Exchequer, Danny Alexander, Mr David Gauke, That, during the year ending with 31 March 2013, a number Miss Chloe Smith and Mr Mark Hoban bring in the not exceeding 42,210 all ranks be maintained for Air Force Bill. Service and that numbers in the Reserve Air Forces be authorised for the purposes of Parts 1, 3, 4 and 5 of the Reserve Air Forces SUPPLY AND APPROPRIATION (ANTICIPATION AND Act 1996 up to the maximum numbers set out in Votes A 2012-13, ADJUSTMENTS)BILL HC 1735.—(Mr Dunne.) Presentation and First Reading Mr Mark Hoban accordingly presented a Bill to ESTIMATES, EXCESSES, 2010-11 authorise the use of resources for the years ending with 31 March 2012 and 31 March 2013; to authorise the Resolved, issue of sums out of the Consolidated Fund for those That, for the year ending with 31 March 2011— years and for the year ending with 31 March 2011; and (1) a sum, not exceeding £347,072,000 be granted to Her to appropriate the supply authorised by this Act for the Majesty out of the Consolidated Fund to make good excesses of years ending with 31 March 2011 and 31 March 2012. certain grants for defence and civil services as set out in Statement of Excesses 2010-11, HC 1757.—(Mr Dunne.) Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 310). SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES, 2011-12 Business without Debate Resolved, That, for the year ending with 31 March 2012— DELEGATED LEGISLATION (1) further resources, not exceeding £16,430,760,000, be authorised Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1748, HC 1755, Order No. 118(6)), HC 1772 and HC 1783. (2) resources authorised for capital purposes be reduced by CONSTITUTIONAL LAW £4,397,816,000, as so set out, and That the draft Housing (Scotland) Act 2010 (Consequential (3) a further sum, not exceeding £7,170,139,000 be granted to Provisions and Modifications) Order 2012, which was laid before Her Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated this House on 10 January, be approved.—(Michael Fabricant.) Fund and applied for expenditure on the use of resources authorised Question agreed to. by Parliament.—(Mr Dunne.) EUROPEAN UNION DOCUMENTS ESTIMATES, VOTE ON ACCOUNT, 2012-13 Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Resolved, Order No. 119(11)), That, for the year ending with 31 March 2013— EU FINANCIAL INSTRUMENTS FOR THE PERIOD (1) resources, not exceeding £205,575,869,000 be authorised, on account, for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1756, 2014-20 HC 1784, HC 1785, HC 1804, HC 1840 and HC 1848. That this House takes note of European Union Document (2) resources, not exceeding £16,331,213,000 be authorised, on No. 16301/11, relating to a Commission Communication: A account, for use for capital purposes as so set out, and framework for the next generation of innovative financial instruments-the EU equity and debt platforms; notes that the (3) a sum, not exceeding £195,629,897,000, be granted to Her Commission’s proposals increase resources available to the EU; Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated agrees that the maximum acceptable expenditure increase through Fund, on account, and applied for expenditure on the use of the next Financial Perspective is a real-terms freeze in payments; resources authorised by Parliament.—(Mr Dunne.) and supports the view that Innovative Financial Instruments in Ordered, That a Bill be brought in upon the foregoing the next Financial Perspective, 2014–2020, should only be used to Resolutions relating to Estimates, Excesses, 2010-11, deliver a smaller EU Budget and not to supplement existing Supplementary Estimates, 2011-12, and Estimates, 2012-13 funding.—(Mr. Hoban.) (Vote on Account). Question agreed to. 265 28 FEBRUARY 2012 Supermarkets And Public Land 266 (Scotland) Supermarkets And Public Land (Scotland) Scottish Enterprise and Dawn Developments had no discussions with South Lanarkshire council on the viability Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House of that proposal, nor did they submit a request for the do now adjourn.—(Mr Dunne.) site to be re-zoned for retail use through the established Mr Speaker: Before I call the hon. Member for East local plan process. Missives were concluded on 25 October Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Mr McCann) 2007. Around that same time Alan MacDonald, the to speak, I should note that he has written to me to ask chairman of the Dawn Group, met South Lanarkshire that I waive the sub judice rule in respect of a statutory council officials and was told that the site was not appeal to the Court of Session against the decision of a suitable for a supermarket development. Undeterred, planning reporter, to which a number of companies, Dawn Developments submitted a planning application Scottish Ministers and South Lanarkshire council are in October 2008 for the creation of a class 1 retail food parties. This is to enable him to raise the matter of a superstore. The application was processed and South particular planning issue in his constituency in this Lanarkshire council’s planning department produced a Adjournment debate. Given the technical nature of the recommendation that the application be refused, and proceedings, which are before judges only, and the fact those documents are a matter of public record. that no date for a hearing has yet been set, I have agreed With the prospect of a refusal in the offing, Dawn to waive the rule so far as is necessary for this debate to Developments decided to withdraw its application before take place. However, I ask the hon. Gentleman to the planning meeting took place. That presented Scottish exercise this freedom with discretion. Enterprise with an opportunity to withdraw from the 10.4 pm deal, as the conditions stipulated that parties were released from their obligations once the planning process Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and concluded. Despite this natural break, Scottish Enterprise Lesmahagow) (Lab): Thank you, Mr Speaker. inexplicably entered into a new deal with Dawn Competition among supermarkets in our country is Developments on precisely the same terms. at times a cut-throat business. A desire for dominance and market share has meant that in different parts of In mid-2009, South Lanarkshire council received a the UK competing supermarket chains are knocking planning application for a supermarket on a different seven bells out of each other to secure new stores. That site from a different consortium. A short time later, is all perfectly legitimate if no laws are being broken. Dawn Developments resubmitted a planning application However, if we add to the mix the ingredient of public for the Scottish Enterprise site. The new application was land, we change the dynamic completely. Tactics felt to identical to the application that had been processed and be legitimate in private sector supermarket wars cannot recommended for refusal. That marked the start of the necessarily be used when the deal, or part of the deal, supermarket war. The council approved the new, rival involves our public assets. My Adjournment debate is application and Dawn Developments withdrew its planning about a veritable supermarket car crash in my constituency application from the local authority on the grounds of involving public land, where it would appear that perspective non-determination and then sent it to the Scottish and common sense were replaced by avarice and Government. intransigence. The net result is a situation where an agency of Government charged with creating economic The application was independently assessed by a wealth became so detached and consumed by a flawed Scottish Government reporter and again rejected. land sale that it prevented jobs from being created in my Simultaneously, Dawn Developments also legally challenged constituency. the rival supermarket proposals that had been cleared, accusing the local authority of behaving improperly. In this debate I seek to draw attention to the unacceptable Scottish Enterprise, by dint of its relationship with behaviour of Dawn Developments and Scottish Enterprise Dawn Developments, was party to that legal move. The in a land deal in the heart of my constituency, the case was taken to the Court of Session in Scotland and unacceptable behaviour of a senior Scottish Enterprise lost. executive and the failures of the civil service to investigate my evidenced complaints. I have advised the Minister of These tactics would be immaterial to the public interest the contents of my speech, and, as you mentioned, if they involved two private companies slugging it out Mr Speaker, I have sought and taken advice from the for the right to build a supermarket in my constituency, Table Office and your office on what I intend to say to but that is not the case when one side is partnered with ensure that I remain inside the rules of parliamentary Scotland’s economic development agency.Myriad questions privilege. arise. If this was such a good deal, why was the application Let me deal first with the nature of the deal constructed not promoted by Scottish Enterprise to maximise the between Dawn Developments and Scottish Enterprise. return for the taxpayer? Why did Scottish Enterprise The story begins in 2004. Scottish Enterprise—or, more not carry out an independent assessment of whether the precisely, the public—owns land in an industrial estate site was suitable for a supermarket? Did Dawn in East Kilbride in my constituency. The site was marketed Developments inform Scottish Enterprise that in private and five bids were received, ranging in value from discussions with South Lanarkshire council it was told £2.5 million to £15 million. A bid from Dawn Developments that the site was not suitable for a supermarket development? was accepted which, to reach the agreed price, would Why did Scottish Enterprise re-sign a deal that had have required the local authority to re-zone the land already been through the planning process and from industrial to retail use and grant permission for a recommended for rejection? Did Scottish Enterprise supermarket development. The Dawn Developments agree to a strategy which saw its partner, Dawn bid was £15 million and it, in turn, expected to sell the Developments, challenge the integrity of the well-respected land to Asda for a minimum of £22 million, with a cool local council and take the Scottish Government to £7 million profit. court? All those questions remain unanswered. 267 Supermarkets And Public Land 28 FEBRUARY 2012 Supermarkets And Public Land 268 (Scotland) (Scotland) The chief executive of Scottish Enterprise, Lena Wilson, independently when he issued the official Scottish Enterprise appears to be oblivious to the fact that the organisation letters dated 31 March, 6 April and 8 April? Did Scottish she commands is a partner in a deal that has cost Enterprise’s management believe that Stephen Gallagher taxpayers hundreds of thousands of pounds, has prevented behaved in an acceptable fashion by offering cash to a a legitimate application that could create hundreds of local authority in return for a planning consent? If not, jobs in my constituency from proceeding and, going why was he not disciplined? What discussions took back to the original deal, has secured no capital receipt place between Stephen Gallagher and Dawn Developments for the taxpayer. on these matters? What internal investigations took Let me now move to the actions of Scottish Enterprise place in Scottish Enterprise to determine Stephen executive Mr Stephen Gallagher. On 31 March 2010 Gallagher’s motivation for writing these letters? Why Stephen Gallagher, the managing director of Scottish was Stephen Gallagher allowed to leave Scottish Enterprise Enterprise Commercial, wrote to the chief executive of with a substantial package funded by taxpayers? South Lanarkshire council, Archie Strang, offering a That brings me to the final issue I want to address—the share of the capital receipt for the West Mains road site abject failure of the civil service to investigate my evidenced if planning permission for the supermarket was granted. complaints. Having hit a communications brick wall at In plain language, Stephen Gallagher offered South Scottish Enterprise I sought answers from what I concluded Lanarkshire council money to pass a planning application. was the United Kingdom civil service chain of command. On 14 April 2010, Archie Strang wrote to Lena I first wrote to Sir Peter Housden, the permanent Wilson, Scottish Enterprise’s chief executive, making it secretary to the Scottish Government, who, sadly, is fast clear that Stephen Gallagher’s actions could be perceived building a reputation as the Scottish National party’s as an attempt to influence the outcome of a planning cheerleader in Scotland. I asked him to investigate these application. On 16 April 2010, Archie Strang received a matters, but he refused to do so. He accepted Scottish response to his letter from Jim McFarlane, Scottish Enterprise’s position without, it appears, carrying out Enterprise managing director of operations, which stated: even a perfunctory examination of the facts. Undeterred, “Can I first of all apologise unreservedly that this letter has I then wrote to his boss, Sir Gus O’Donnell. I assumed been received by your Council at this present time. This simply that the head of the civil service would not resile from should not have happened.” his obligations to ensure that the service’s staff behave It further transpired that Stephen Gallagher had also according to its code, which states that it must be written to the council’s planning department on two accountable to the public and should meet the highest separate occasions, objecting to the rival supermarket possible standards in all it does. Sadly, he did not. application and asking the council to favour the Dawn Instead, he merely wrote to the Scottish Government Developments-Scottish Enterprise deal. That led to Archie and replied to me reaffirming their original assessment Strang writing again on 19 April 2010 to Lena Wilson, of the matter. So, we have a procedure in which each chief executive, about the letters the council had received complaint I have made has been rejected not on the from Stephen Gallagher dated 6 and 8 April, both of basis of an investigation but because each part of the which objected to the rival supermarket bid. civil service hierarchy involved has reaffirmed their Archie Strang said in his letter: subordinate’s position. That simply is not good enough. “My main purpose in writing to you...is to express concern at What does all this mean for my constituents? We the apparent attempts by Scottish Enterprise to influence the know that the development opportunities that were Council to resist this application, and to support SE’s own available in 2004 when the land was first marketed no proposal, with Dawn Developments, at West Mains Road. This longer exist. The world has moved on. We also know concern arises from the comments made in the letter, dated 6 that the decision of Scottish Enterprise to enter a joint April, where the Council is effectively threatened with a legal challenge if it is not seen to have ‘properly addressed’ all issues venture in pursuit of a larger capital receipt was a associated with the Redwood Drive submission. This is wholly blunder, and the resulting loss of perspective has dragged inappropriate as it appears to cast doubt on the Council’s ability it into a totally inappropriate legal battle that has to deal with planning applications in an impartial manner and challenged the integrity of one of Scotland’s leading questions the professionalism and integrity of planning officers.” local authorities. In a response dated 23 April 2010, Jim McFarlane Mr Speaker, I sought your advice on the next matter stated: that I wanted to raise and you agreed that the sub judice “Until your letter of 19 April was received, I was not aware rule could be waived. I will heed your advice to be that further letters of 6 April and 8 April had been submitted to careful. I am grateful for your decision because it allows your Council. In my view these letters were ill advised and should me to advise the House that Dawn Developments continues not have been sent.” to take legal action against the Scottish Government’s I take the view that at best Stephen Gallagher’s decision to refuse planning permission at the publicly behaviour should have been viewed as gross misconduct. owned site. The madness continues but there is a train I further take the view that the thread running through of thought that, given the collapse of every legal action Mr Gallagher’s behaviour was consistent with a reckless thus far, the action is merely a device to put off the attempt to allow the Dawn application to proceed, fateful day when Scottish Enterprise will be fully exposed whatever the cost, but what beggars belief is that on all these matters and held to account. The reputation Mr Gallagher was not subjected to any disciplinary of Scottish Enterprise has been tarnished by the actions procedure by Scottish Enterprise and was allowed to of its partner Dawn Developments and it should apologise leave the organisation with a taxpayer-funded severance unreservedly for its lack of judgment on this matter and package. the damage it has done in my constituency, where the Once again Scottish Enterprise chief executive, Lena employment opportunities that would have been created Wilson, has refused to answer any questions on the for the many people who find themselves unemployed matter. For example, was Stephen Gallagher acting have not been created. I have not worked out whether 269 Supermarkets And Public Land 28 FEBRUARY 2012 Supermarkets And Public Land 270 (Scotland) (Scotland) [Mr Michael McCann] As the hon. Gentleman said, he pursued the matter also with the then head of the civil service, who fully what has happened is a result of conspiracy, incompetence investigated the matter. or a combination of both, because the questions I have asked have not been answered. However, I do know that Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): Stephen Gallagher’s behaviour was, without doubt, wholly I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate. unacceptable, and that Scottish Enterprise did nothing Having worked in the property industry, I know that about it. The question I ask is, why? Mr Gallagher has something of a reputation for being In conclusion, I put the following points to the Minister. what in Moffat would be called a wide boy. Is the We all have a mutual interest in ensuring that each Minister satisfied that the code covers the culture of component part of the UK is economically successful, behaviour, as well as the actions? and I ask the Minister to enter into a dialogue with David Mundell: I am satisfied that the terms of the Scottish Ministers to ensure that steps are taken to code are appropriate and are appropriately administered. allow a proper investigation to take place, to ensure that As the hon. Gentleman knows, complaints regarding those responsible are held to account and to ensure that the Scottish Government and their agencies which have lessons are learned. Most importantly, an exit strategy gone through those organisations’ own formal complaints should be devised for this whole sorry mess. Will the procedure can also be raised with the Scottish public Minister also agree to engage with his ministerial colleagues services ombudsman. It is for the public services in the Cabinet Office to examine new methods of working ombudsman to deal with these matters, and it is right to ensure that an elected Member’s legitimate complaints that the appropriate avenues are used. The Scotland are properly investigated and not simply paper-shuffled Office does not have any locus in such matters and it from one part of the civil service to another? would not be appropriate for us to take on any investigatory role in relation to these matters. 10.19 pm The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland Mr McCann: Having served for a considerable time (David Mundell): I congratulate the hon. Member for in my career as a full-time trade union official in the East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Mr McCann), civil service, and having represented people who work in my neighbouring MP in south Lanarkshire, on securing Scottish Enterprise, I know how the procedures operate. debating time tonight. Adjournment debates are an In the situation that I described, I made a formal important opportunity for Members to put matters of complaint to the head of the civil service that someone, concern on the record, and the hon. Gentleman has as I set out in my opening address, committed a serious been able to do that this evening. disciplinary offence. No action was taken whatsoever, The issues that have been set out tonight have already and he was allowed to leave the service with a handsome been the subject of a great deal of investigation by the package paid for by the taxpayer. Those questions have relevant authorities. I am conscious that a number of never been answered. Therefore the question that I must the issues raised are still under consideration by both put to the Minister is how am I to pursue such questions the procurator fiscal and the civil courts, and therefore to a logical conclusion when all I got from the civil it would not be appropriate for me to comment on service was a brick wall constructed in front of me and those. The issues raised also relate closely to the decision- my questions not being answered? making process for planning applications in Scotland David Mundell: As I set out in my opening remarks, and to economic development policy in Scotland. It is the hon. Gentleman has had the opportunity this evening important to recognise that these matters in Scotland to place all his concerns on the record. I undertake to are devolved and are properly for the relevant local ensure that a transcript of tonight’s proceedings is authorities, the Scottish Government and their agencies. conveyed to all the relevant parties that have been I can therefore offer no comment on the merits or discussed, including Scottish Enterprise, the Scottish otherwise of the applications in question. Government, Sir Peter Housden, the Information With regard to the responsibilities and accountability Commissioner, and the current head of the civil service, of civil servants, I understand the hon. Gentleman’s Sir Bob Kerslake, so that everyone who has an interest frustration. However, there are proper processes in place. in the matter can read the points that the hon. Gentleman The civil service code, first published in 1996, sets out has raised. However, the Scotland Office is unable to the core civil service values and the standards of behaviour take forward further investigations. Indeed, it would be expected of civil servants in upholding these values. A inappropriate to do so while a criminal investigation Scottish Executive version of the civil service code was and civil court proceedings are taking place. As I have first published in 2006. said, he has used the important opportunity of an On 11 November 2010, the civil service provisions of Adjournment debate to place his concerns on the record. the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010 came into force, placing the civil service values on a Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): Will the Minister statutory footing. Under the terms of the 2010 Act, a give way? revised civil service code was laid before the UK Parliament Mr Speaker: Order. I think that the Minister has on 11 November 2010 and is available on the Cabinet concluded his speech. Office website, and a revised separate code of conduct Question put and agreed to. governing civil servants who serve the Scottish Executive was laid before the UK Parliament and Scottish Parliament 10.25 pm on 11 November 2010. House adjourned. 1WH 28 FEBRUARY 2012 Women in the Church of England 2WH

men are now being recognised and utilised by the Church. Westminster Hall There are four female deans of cathedrals and many others in senior roles. Despite many predictions to the Tuesday 28 February 2012 contrary, that has not led to the collapse of the established Church or to any other existential disaster befalling [MR CHRISTOPHER CHOPE in the Chair] mankind—or even womankind. Women in the Church of England The same would be true, I believe, of moving forward to having women bishops. Women priests have entered Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting the mainstream culture of our country, far beyond just be now adjourned.—(Mr Dunne.) spawning “The Vicar of Dibley”. Like many great 9.30 am progressive reforms, it has put new wine into old bottles. Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): I I want to celebrate and build on that success. We know am delighted to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Chope. that being a bishop is a very difficult job to undertake First, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for and the Church needs to choose bishops with a wide Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) on range of gifts, skills and experience. It is inconceivable securing the debate in the first instance. It is an important that those gifts and skills and that experience will be and timely debate and has attracted a lot of interest. found just in the male sex. The Church could benefit My hon. Friend sends her apologies for being unable to greatly from having the opportunity to select from both attend, but as someone who has been asking questions men and women. That is right and fair. of the representative of the Church Commissioners on The argument, the theological debate, about women the Floor of the House of Commons on the issue of bishops is as it was for women priests. It concerns the women bishops for some time, I am very pleased to be interpretation of women’s role in the great Christian deputising for her today, with Mr Speaker’s permission. teachings. Those against equality believe that God created I pay tribute again to the women and men who have the man to lead and that the woman was there to be his been fighting for justice and equality in the Church of helper. Some hold that Eve was created from Adam’s England for many years: first with the movement for rib. They believe that women should not be in a leadership the ordination of women, and now with the organisation role over men. Therefore women are somehow seen as called WATCH—Women and the Church. In particular, secondary to men. Those in favour of women bishops I have had a number of dealings with Sally Barnes, who more commonly draw inspiration from the arguments is very involved in WATCH. It is a great pity that we are that both men and women were created equal in God’s still having battles in the Church of England about image. equality in 2012. Many people might be quite shocked to realise that the established Church of this country When I was looking at the arguments, I found a has been allowed to opt out of equality legislation. It familiar theme about the God-given role of certain has been able to opt out of its duties under the Sex individuals or groups. I read carefully the debates on Discrimination Act 1975 and under the Equality Act the abolition of the slave trade and I shall explain why. 2010. I believe that if we have an established Church of William Wilberforce fought very hard in the House of England, that Church should have regard to and follow Commons to champion that cause. The discussion at the laws of the land as well. that time was about how a Christian could defend It is good that we are having this debate close to slavery. There is symmetry with the idea that there are international women’s day on 8 March and at a time preordained roles that people have to play. It is striking when we are looking back to the suffragette campaign, when we look back and then look at the issues of which was reaching its peak 100 years ago. The campaign equality and justice that the Church of England should for women bishops follows the campaign for women be at the forefront of championing today. priests, which reached a successful conclusion in 1992. I The role of women in the history of Christianity, have been reflecting on that, because before the legislation from the time of Jesus, has often been painted out of was passed, I was involved in the campaign. I was a the picture, just as happened with black people and the student and very involved in my chaplaincy. I remember tremendous role that they have played in our history. that one morning my dad, who did not share my politics, However, if we look at the Bible, we know that Jesus rang me in a rather irate state. He had opened his treated women fairly. He spoke to them as equals, and morning copy of The Daily Telegraph to find a big of course it is always recognised that Mary Magdalene picture of the scene outside Church House as the then was the first witness to the resurrection. In the early Archbishop of Canterbury, Robert Runcie, was going Christian Church, until about 400 AD, female priests into Synod. A group of women was standing there with and congregation leaders were very common. placards saying “How long?” and “We’re waiting,” and my dad realised that one of them was me. He was quite Those who draw on the literal interpretation of the taken aback that his daughter was in the Telegraph to Bible apply it word for word to the modern world. That start with—I did not share its politics; but he then got can be dangerous, but they also do it based on a the picture from the Telegraph and I have it framed in selective interpretation of the text—one that I think is my office as a reminder of one of the things with which based on worldly interests and prejudice. Whatever I am very proud to have been associated. happens in the politics and obscure committees of the The legislation in relation to women priests went Church of England, the real world and the United through in November 1992, but it specifically said that Kingdom have changed enormously, especially during women could not become bishops. The reform of 1992 the past century. The real world looks like leaving the has been a huge success. There are now 3,000 women Church of England behind. Women are now far more priests. The talents and abilities of both women and educated, are more likely to have a job outside the 3WH Women in the Church of England28 FEBRUARY 2012 Women in the Church of England 4WH

[Diana Johnson] overwhelming support given to that Measure by the wider Church membership through diocesan Synod home, can vote equally with men and are no longer the voting. property of their fathers and passed to their husbands As I said, the draft Measure goes to the House of on marrying. Bishops in May, and it can amend the reforms as it sees There is much further to go on equality issues. There fit. If it does, that would be unacceptable to WATCH is a need for more women in Parliament—as I am sure and most senior women, because it would change the all hon. Members recognise—in our local authorities, at episcopacy in ways that would undermine the Church’s the Bar and in the boardroom. However, women have integrity and mission, as well as limiting female bishops’ broken through as leaders in society. We are no longer ministry too far. there just to make the tea. In 1979, we had the first When I looked at this issue, I was struck by the fact woman Prime Minister; and Margaret Thatcher duly that women have actively engaged with the bishops in proved that a woman could do the job of leader in the discussions that have been held so far. In June 2008, society as badly as any man. senior lay and clergywomen attended a meeting of the College of Bishops to discuss proposals for women We are looking at a process of change. God was said bishops. Since then, no women have been part of the to have created the earth in seven days. It is taking a discussions in the House of Bishops. It is inconceivable great deal longer for the tortuous internal machinery of to anyone engaged in equality and diversity work in the Church of England to introduce the simple reform other contexts that the Church would make the decision for women bishops. The draft Bishops and Priests about consecrating women as bishops without seriously (Consecration and Ordination of Women) Measure is engaging during this last phase with those who will be currently in its final legislative stages. It was considered most directly affected by that decision. at the February General Synod after recent consultation That is where we are at the moment. If the changes among the 44 dioceses saw 42 come out in favour of the bishops make to the Measure are small, it will come women bishops. Only two—London and Chichester— back to General Synod in July for final approval, which narrowly voted against. Thirty-three voted explicitly will involve further debate and voting. If the changes against any provisions for those who did not accept are major—I have explained how the Measure could be women bishops. Nine voted for some provisions. changed in a major way—the whole process will go I want to concentrate on the Manchester motion, as backwards, with another consultation among the dioceses it has become known. Synod debated the motion, which and more debates and voting. asked the House of Bishops to use its powers to amend If we get to the stage of final approval, it will require the Measure by incorporating co-ordinate jurisdiction— a two-thirds majority in each house—the House of there are a variety of interpretations as to how that Bishops, the House of Clergy and the House of Laity. would work in practice—in clause 2 and removing the That sounds a bit like Labour’s electoral college for words “by way of delegation”. That was the substance electing leaders, which is complicated and rather challenging, of the Archbishops’ proposed amendment of July 2010, with the constituency Labour parties, unions and MPs which Synod rejected by a small margin in one house, all having to have their say. The process around the but this time, after a thorough debate, all three houses Measure certainly seems to be more about worldly of the Synod clearly voted not to ask the bishops to politics than about the great doctrinal principles that take such a course. opponents of modernisation argue over. In an earlier debate on the results of the diocesan If the two-thirds majority is achieved, and the interests Synod voting, however, the Archbishop of Canterbury of the minority who can scupper it are overcome, that is intervened to ask Synod to allow the bishops one last still not the end of the process. The Measure then goes look at the Measure. It was unclear whether he meant before the Ecclesiastical Committee of Parliament, which he wanted Synod to support the Manchester motion, can refer it to both Houses of Parliament for a vote. In and members interpreted his words in both directions. that respect, the Second Church Estates Commissioner, Essentially, however, he has paved the way for the the hon. Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry), who will bishops to amend the Measure slightly. be responsible for taking the proposals through the House of Commons, was quoted in July 2010 as saying, Almost all members of Synod, including both “be under no illusion about one thing. A difficult task could well archbishops, are convinced that the Measure must be become impossible if I had to steer through the House of Commons passed in July for the sake of the credibility of the any measure which left a scintilla of a suggestion that woman Church of England. An unknown factor is whether bishops were in some way to be second class bishops.” there is a sufficient majority in the House of Laity, and That is a helpful quote. in the light of that the Archbishop of Canterbury is We now know that only a tiny minority of parishes keen to see whether there is a way through that will oppose women bishops. Under the current legislation, only enable more laity to support the Measure, while not 3% have asked to be looked after by provincial episcopal alienating those on the pro-women bishop side, who visitors, commonly known as “flying bishops”, which is already find the Measure a huge compromise. quite a challenging idea. The idea of someone swooping A known factor, however, is that if the bishops in to provide whatever people need sounds like the amend the Measure, shifting it towards the views of Church of England’s version of “The Sweeney”—the opponents, all the indications are that it will lose support attitude to women that underlies that certainly belongs in the House of Clergy and will not gain a sufficient more to the world of “Life on Mars” than to 2012. majority there in July. It would also be somewhat peculiar People who know change is coming are now looking if the House of Bishops used its powers to change a at any way of delaying it. They are looking at whether draft Measure about its own reform in the face of the there can be more restrictions and at possible ways of 5WH Women in the Church of England28 FEBRUARY 2012 Women in the Church of England 6WH avoiding change. Obviously, some members of the Church and too fast, although clearly the Opposition think that of England—some priests—have accepted the Pope’s we are doing that with many other issues. invitation to join the Roman Catholic Church. Faith matters have been prominent in recent weeks, However, more than enough has been done to cater with debates about prayers in council meetings and for those who have rather challenging attitudes, shall we Parliament, and about same sex civil marriage. My view say, to the world we live in and to the commitment the on prayers in council meetings or Parliament is that it is Church of England and Christianity have always shown, not right for them to be an integral part of the proceedings. and should always show, to equality, justice and fairness. I have no objection to their happening immediately That group perhaps sees the Church as a monument, prior to the meeting or proceedings, but those who do rather than as the movement it really should be. To not participate should not suffer any detriment for that. bend any further to the opponents of progress would mean stopping change. Indeed, they would like to reverse Sir Peter Bottomley: In this world. the progress that has been made so far. There is an idea that we are moving far too fast. Tom Brake: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that There are those who claim to support the cause of semi-serious intervention. women bishops, but who believe that we should not The Government are consulting on how to introduce proceed too far or too fast. With them, the decision same sex civil marriages, and I hope that eventually we always has to be taken in the future, and decisive moves will introduce legislation to allow those faiths that want forward always seem to be a few years ahead. to celebrate same sex religious marriage to do so. Clearly, however, we are not at that point. The Government’s Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con): As the consultation is about same sex civil, not religious, marriages. campaign started in 1909, and we are now in 2012, does If in the future same sex religious marriage is considered, the hon. Lady think that even opponents of the change as with previous measures, compulsion would not operate, would think that 103 years was going too fast? but there would be flexibility and scope for faiths that wanted to proceed down that route. Diana Johnson: The hon. Gentleman makes a good I am not convinced that, as a man and an atheist, I point. St Augustine established the Church in England am the best placed person to comment on the issue of in 597 AD—1,415 years ago. Discussions about women’s women bishops. Indeed, as I walked up the steps to this ordination have been going on since the Church debate, I tripped quite dramatically, as if there were of England’s Lambeth conference in 1920. The issue of some sort of intervention, seeking to restrict my comments. women bishops was first raised in the Church Assembly However, I welcome interventions from Church leaders in 1966. There is, therefore, quite a background to the on political matters, and I think it is therefore legitimate issue, and no one could say we are rushing into making for politicians to comment on faith matters. this change. It has been formally debated in Synod since On 8 February the Synod voted clearly for women 2000, so the accusation that we are moving too far and bishops to have full autonomy, without co-bishops. I too fast on gender equality really does not hold water. welcome that—it is not a party position. However, The Church of England is a broad Church, and we I recognise that it will send shock waves through some want it to go forward as a broad Church. I certainly sections of the Church of England. It is a brave decision, want it to be relevant to the society we live in. I want it which—if it is ultimately passed—would not leave women to promote faith, decency and good work in the wider bishops as second-class citizens in the Church. My view community. It is obviously important to respect its past, is that it will happen in the near future anyway. Given but we should not live in the past; we should look to that 290 women and 273 men were ordained in 2010, at how the Church can develop and serve the needs of the some point this decision will be taken. The Church of community now. We need to serve the people of today England is at a crossroads. It can go down a more and tomorrow, but we are perhaps being held back a liberal route, with the risk, highlighted by the hon. little by some of yesterday’s people. A broad Church Member for Kingston upon Hull North, that that will should not be held back by narrow interests, and there lead more followers of the faith to leave. However, there is now broad support for the Measure to go through all is an inevitability about these things. Following a traditional its stages. route will lead to the same sorts of challenges, and as I hope we will see the first woman bishop very soon. I more and more women are ordained, pressure will grow will certainly persist in putting my questions to the for women bishops to be able to operate independently Second Church Estates Commissioner, the hon. Member and in exactly the same way as male bishops, and it will for Banbury, to ensure that progress continues to be happen eventually. made. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the work I welcome the decision taken at the Synod and hope he does; he is a real champion of equality and fairness that the House of Bishops, the clergy and the laity will in the Church. accept that there was a strong vote in favour of allowing women bishops into the Church as equal partners with their male colleagues. 9.49 am

Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): It is a 9.54 am pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning, Mr Chope. I commend the hon. Member for Kingston Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con): First, I upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), who set out carefully apologise for intervening in both the speeches made by and clearly the reasons for the debate, and what, perhaps, my colleagues. I came here with a self-denying ordinance, should come out of it. It was pleasing to hear, for once, during Lent, not to intervene in others’ speeches, but I that on the issue in question we are not moving too far failed. 7WH Women in the Church of England28 FEBRUARY 2012 Women in the Church of England 8WH

[Sir Peter Bottomley] we know from some of the Bedouin histories, even though someone had done something terribly wrong, if The first thing to remember is that the Church of it was customary to do it, they could get away with it. England has got this matter sorted. It is now a question Whether it was murder, taking others’goods, or slaughtering for the Government, which is why my hon. Friend the members of another tribe, custom was a sufficient Minister is here, and for Parliament. As a member, still, defence. I think that we should look for challenge, and of the Ecclesiastical Committee, I look forward to a say that custom is no longer a sufficient defence for debate, when the matter comes to us, in which the perpetuating what is clearly ineffective, and in many Committee will look as if it is on the side of the Church senses unjust. of England and Parliament, rather than confronting I want briefly to consider the relationship of Church the Church. There has been a tendency in the past and state. F.D. Bruce’s book, “The Legal and Constitutional 10 years or so, for too many people to say that anything Relationship Between Church and State in England”, that comes from the Church of England must be suspect published in 1910, sets out clearly the role of establishment. and treated with disrespect. We should treat the efforts It is not the Church of England propping up Parliament; of the Synod with respect, and remember that our it is Parliament’s role in making sure that the Church present system is a change from when ecclesiastical serves the nation. That applies to the UK Parliament as canon law had to go through all stages of Parliament, it is now just as much as it applied to the English with First, Second and Third Readings. We now have an Parliament, before the unions that created Great Britain abbreviated system, which is to be preferred. and the United Kingdom. A rather good book that is Our responsibilities to the Church of England are relevant is from the Royal Historical Society “Studies perhaps the reverse of what happened in 1797, when in History”: “Representatives of the Lower Clergy in there was a declaration that Magna Carta and the Parliament, 1295-1340” by J. H. Denton and J. P.Dooley. Charter of the Forest had to be read out twice a year in Let me now turn to “Women and Holy Orders”. In all cathedral churches. Anyone who did not do that was 1928, Charles E. Raven, who was Canon at Liverpool excommunicated. The penalties were rather greater in and Chaplain to the King and later became the Regius those days than they are now. Professor of Divinity at Cambridge university, wrote a I went through my shelves this morning to see what I book that effectively epitomised what the suffrage movement had on this subject. I will not read everything out, but it meant in the Church of England in terms of getting the is worth trying to set a context. In a book called vote, which was established when Royal Assent was “Women of the Bible” by H. V. Morton, which was given to the suffrage Act—the Representation of the published in 1940, the author talks about a female People (Equal Franchise) Act 1928. It was then that the gallery unmatched in the world of literature, starting, League of Church Militant, which had offices at Church obviously, with Eve, and working through the women House, Westminster, was dissolved because it was thought of the Old and New Testaments; but not as ministers. that the job had been basically done. However, from That is something that I found covered rather better in 1928 to now, we have had arguments over the ordination the 1981 PhD thesis of Ben Witherington, which became of women as deacons rather than deaconesses and the the book “Women in the Ministry of Jesus”. I have decision, eventually, to ordain women as priests. Now got the paperback copy from 1987. He sensibly takes we come to the decision—this could have been taken at the reader through how we should view women in the the same time as the decision to ordain women as context of their roles in Palestine—in marriage and the priests, but out of kindness to the last ditchers it was family, in religion and as witnesses, teachers and leaders. deferred—about women being ordained as bishops. He goes on to describe women in the teaching of Jesus, My hon. Friend the Minister may say that this matter in chapters about the physical family, women in the parables does not have a great deal to do with the Government, of Jesus, women in female imagery in the judgment but, to the extent that Government determine parliamentary sayings, and Jesus’s attitudes towards women, reflected time, it does. The matter of the ordination of women as in his words. There are then two more substantive bishops should not be left to the Backbench Business chapters, “Women and the Deeds of Jesus”, including Committee. I hope that the Government will accept “Stories of Help and Healing” and “Jesus’ Attitude that they have responsibility for providing parliamentary Toward Women Reflected in his Actions”; and “Women time if the Ecclesiastical Committee decides that it is in the Ministry of Jesus”, including “Mother Mary, expedient to put the Synod’s Measure to both Houses Jesus’ Disciple”, “Mary and Martha”, “Women Who of Parliament. Followed Jesus” and “The Place of Women in Jesus’ I pay tribute to the Second Church Estates Commissioner, Ministry”. Then the book goes on to conclusions. my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry) It is clear from what Ben Witherington has to say, who in his first series of questions in that role uttered and from what is known by scholars, as well as the words equivalent to the ones that he later gave in public campaigners, that Jesus had a rare view, for his time, of and to the Synod. He said that Parliament will not what women could and should do. We should keep that stand for backsliding, significant delay and discrimination, in mind. Most of what we have began, I think, with the and that is right. I also pay tribute to the Synod for the western version of St Luke’s Gospel, in which the decisions that it has made, even though it did not follow translator toned down much of what Luke directly said. what the archbishops had indicated that they would There has been a natural tendency, including among find expedient. some of my friends in both Houses of Parliament, to Lastly, let me reflect on Margaret Hebblethwaite’s suggest that everything must suffer from the historic “Six New Gospels” in which, in a fictional way, she has negative: things cannot be done in a new way, because New Testament women telling their stories. We have an they have never been done that way before. The old law image of Jesus through the eyes of six different women. of custom is also rolled out. In the Old Testament, as She says that this can be looked at metaphorically and 9WH Women in the Church of England28 FEBRUARY 2012 Women in the Church of England 10WH literally. The metaphorical question about whether women House will be given the opportunity to vote for this are fully capable of doing anything that a man can do Measure and to see women enjoying the episcopacy as has been settled for two millennia. The question of soon as possible. whether we can translate that into practice will, in the end, come down to whether the Church of England can 10.6 am act by itself or whether it has to wait for more of Christendom to join us. The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Tony Baldry): One of the great things about the Church of England, I hope that it will be of some help to the House if I am for whatever reason it was established, is that it actually allowed to make a contribution in my capacity as the has the freedom to make its own decisions and we are Second Church Estates Commissioner. If I read this part of that process. It is about time that we took that debate correctly, it will not miss the point. The debate, decision. Please, Synod, pass this legislation on women which was introduced excellently by the hon. Member bishops to us. I hope that the Ecclesiastical Committee for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), has will not make a fool of itself: I trust it to do what is had contributions from an avowed atheist, the right. When it comes to being debated and decided on churchwarden of St Margaret’s and a resolute reactionary, in the House of Commons—I cannot speak for the and they all supported the Measure to enable women to House of Lords; I leave that to my wife, because a become bishops in the Church of England and want it woman’s place is in the House…of Lords—I hope that passed as soon as possible. we will make a decision that will allow women bishops We have a Church of England that is subject to to join the House of Lords and then help decide what parliamentary statute, and has been ever since the first the future of that institution will be as well. Act of Supremacy, when we broke with Rome. However, in 1919, Parliament decided that the Church of England should have its own legislature, the Church Assembly 10.3 am then and the General Synod now. Sir Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con): I start with an As the hon. Lady pointed out, the General Synod is apology: I am due to chair the Committee that is made up of three houses: the House of Bishops, the considering the Civil Aviation Bill very shortly. That House of Clergy and the House of Laity. Resolutions may take me 50,000 feet closer to God, but it will not from the General Synod—Measures—have to come to allow me to hear the winding-up speeches in this debate, Parliament. and for that I apologise to colleagues. May I say to my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing I am a fully paid-up reactionary. This is not part of West (Sir Peter Bottomley) that I hope that the General the debate, but it has been raised, so I will make my own Synod will agree to adopt this Measure in July? In comment. I happen to believe that marriage is a union anticipation of that, I have met Lord Lloyd, the Chair between one man and one woman and anything else is a of the Ecclesiastical Committee, which is made up of a partnership and should remain as such. number of Members of this House and a number of Members of the House of Lords, to discuss the Committee On the issue that we are debating this morning, I have meeting in October to consider and approve the Measure. a very strong view indeed. The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) and others have Leaving nothing to chance, I have already had discussions referred to equality. However, this is about not equality, with my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House of but the right person for the job. As with the House of Commons. Using the precedent of what happened in Commons, so with the Church of England and others; respect of the Measures for ordaining women as deacons we need the best people in the job. Simply, ladies who and priests, it is deemed to be appropriate to consider have been ordained have proved that they are very this Measure on the Floor of the House, rather than good. There may be some bad women vicars, but I can upstairs in Committee. The understanding that I have think of one or two bad male vicars as well. In whatever reached with the Leader of the House is that we will set walk of life—whether in the House of Commons, the aside half a day—we hope, some time in November—to Church of England, industry, medicine or education—we approve the Measure in this House. It has to be approved need the best people in the job. Some of those best separately in the House of Lords, and I hope that it will people will be men and some will be women. If there are do similarly. If the Measure is approved by General more best women than there are best men, there should Synod in July, it is my ambition to do everything be more women bishops than there are male bishops. If possible to have it pass all its legislative stages before the that is a counter-reactionary point of view, I apologise end of this year. We would therefore hope to see the first to my hon. Friends who might expect me to take an women bishops appointed as early as 2014. I agree with alternative view. the comments made by my hon. Friends the Members for Worthing West and for North Thanet (Sir Roger To conclude, in the final line of “Saint Joan”—I Gale) that that would be significant in terms of the know this because as a schoolboy I was required to timetable relating to reform of the House of Lords. utter the words—George Bernard Shaw said: The other day, the Queen was at Lambeth palace to “How long, Oh Lord, how long?” meet faith representatives, and at the conclusion of her This has been going on for far too long. The moment is visit she made a short but very powerful speech. With not with us; it is way past and the decision should have the leave of the House, I will just quote two paragraphs been taken by now. The bishops will be doing the from that speech. Her Majesty said: Church, of which I am proud to be a member, no “Our religions provide critical guidance for the way we live our service whatever if they duck this issue. It is time to lives and for the way in which we treat each other. Many of the move forward, and I hope very much indeed that we in values and ideas we take for granted in this and other countries the House of Commons and our colleagues in the upper originate in the ancient wisdom of our traditions. Even the 11WH Women in the Church of England28 FEBRUARY 2012 Women in the Church of England 12WH

[Tony Baldry] comments, 42 out of 44 of the dioceses have voted firmly in support of the Measure to enable women to concept of a Jubilee is rooted in the Bible… We should remind become bishops. ourselves of the significant position of the Church of England in our nation’s life. The concept of our established Church is occasionally I very much hope that, when the House of Bishops misunderstood and, I believe, commonly under-appreciated. Its considers the resolution from the February Synod, it role is not to defend Anglicanism to the exclusion of other gives it careful consideration. However, given that a religions. Instead, the Church has a duty to protect the free majority of the members of the February Synod voted practice of all faiths in this country. in favour of women becoming bishops—in other words, It certainly provides an identity and spiritual dimension for its they supported those resolutions that enable that prospect own many adherents. But also, gently and assuredly, the Church to move forward—I would be extremely surprised if the of England has created an environment for other faith communities House of Bishops did anything other than to enable the and indeed people of no faith to live freely. Woven into the fabric Measure to move forward, and I have every confidence of this country, the Church has helped to build a better society—more in the good sense and good judgment of the House of and more in active co-operation for the common good with those Bishops. of other faiths.” When we come to the Church of England’s General It is always important to remember that the Church Synod in July, I very much hope that even those who of England is, as Her Majesty pointed out, the established have been opposed to women becoming bishops will Church and as such it has very specific responsibilities recognise the overwhelming support within the Church to be a national Church. This year, we celebrate the of England for the Measure to go forward. In fact, if 350th anniversary of the Book of Common Prayer, but 42 out of 44 dioceses have voted in favour of women it is worth recalling that the Book of Common Prayer is becoming bishops, it would look very perverse—indeed, itself an annexe to the Act of Uniformity. Indeed, later it would look ridiculous—if the General Synod in July this year, the Parliamentary Archives will display the was to use its convoluted voting mechanisms not to original Act of Uniformity, with the original Book of allow that Measure to move forward. Between now and Common Prayer, which, as I say, was attached to the July, I hope that everyone will search their soul and I Act as an annexe. So Parliament has always had an also hope that, if people are opposed to the Measure, important role in the life of the Church of England and they will recognise that there comes a point when it is the Church of England has had a responsibility in our necessary to acknowledge that, in the interests and nation’s life to be a national Church. well-being of the Church of England, the Measure Regarding the concerns that the hon. Member for must make progress. Kingston upon Hull North expressed about the Equality We have always wished to continue to be a broad Act 2010, it is important to recognise that any Measure Church, maintaining space for all those who wish to from the General Synod must come to both Houses of remain within the Church of England. However, there Parliament to be approved. I am grateful to the hon. must be a recognition that this issue has been deliberated Lady for quoting my comments at the General Synod for a long time and that it has been considered carefully, shortly after I was appointed as the Second Church with everyone in the Church of England having had the Estates Commissioner in July 2010, when I made it very opportunity to make a thoughtful and deliberative clear to the General Synod that I did not think there contribution to the debate, and that—as demonstrated was any prospect of getting through Parliament any by the votes in the dioceses during the last year—the Measure that gave the impression that women bishops views of the members of the Church of England are were second-class bishops. I have made it very clear that very clear. if the Church of England is to have bishops, women I hope, therefore, that by the end of this year Parliament bishops must be just like male bishops, regarded and will have passed a Measure that will enable women to respected as male bishops are, and with the same roles, become bishops. Of course, although that parliamentary responsibilities and rights. business would be dealt with in Government time, it It is also important to remember that we are dealing would not be capable of being whipped business. with a Church and that, as is set out in the Preface to Consequently, I will look to all those who have urged the Declaration of Assent: and exhorted me on this issue during Church Commissioners questions and elsewhere to be in the “The Church of England is part of the One, Holy, Catholic, main Chamber to support the Measure when it comes and Apostolic Church, worshipping the one true God, Father, to the Floor of the House. Wherever that support Son, and Holy Spirit. It professes the faith uniquely revealed in the Holy Scriptures and set forth in the catholic creeds, which comes from—whether from atheists or resolved faith the Church is called upon to proclaim afresh in each reactionaries—it is very important that the House of generation. Led by the Holy Spirit, it has borne witness to Commons demonstrates its support for women bishops. Christian truth in its historic formularies, the Thirty-nine Articles In due course, I hope that I and others here will be able of Religion, The Book of Common Prayer, and the Ordering of to be at Westminster abbey or St Paul’s cathedral when Bishops, Priests, and Deacons.” the archbishops consecrate the first woman bishop. Therefore, the General Synod and the whole Church have been grappling with issues that are of genuine Sir Peter Bottomley: We know precisely what my hon. concern—indeed, heartfelt concern—for large numbers Friend means by that, but it is worth spelling out for the of individuals, and the General Synod and the whole record that there are women bishops in other parts of Church are absolutely right to have taken time to ensure the Anglican communion. that those issues are thoroughly debated and resolved. It is a fact that every deanery in every diocese in Tony Baldry: There are of course women bishops England has had the opportunity to debate them at elsewhere in the Anglican communion. I am glad to say length and, as the hon. Lady pointed out in her opening that some of them were present at the February Synod, 13WH Women in the Church of England28 FEBRUARY 2012 Women in the Church of England 14WH and I was very glad to be able to entertain two of them, 10.25 am the Bishop of Rhode Island and the Bishop of Nova Scotia, here in the House while they were at General Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): I congratulate my Synod in February. It was interesting to hear them talk hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull about their experiences as women bishops and how North (Diana Johnson) on taking up the baton after quickly they had become fully recognised in their leadership our colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for role as bishops within their own provinces, countries Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson), was and communities. And why not? unable to start the debate today. She has done it As has been said, we now have women in leadership admirably. I think I am the only ordained person in the roles throughout the Church of England in every position Church of England speaking today, unless anyone is other than as bishops. There are now as many women as hiding something from us. The Second Church Estates there are men coming forward to be ordained as priests. Commissioner, the hon. Member for Banbury (Tony I am sure that it will be the same in other hon. Members’ Baldry) sounded remarkably ordained as he delivered constituencies. In my own constituency, the vicar of his final intonations. Banbury is a woman. The vicar of Bicester is a woman. I remember going to Ripon College Cuddesdon in The vicar in my own parish, from whom I take communion the 1980s. I arrived in 1983. The year before, there had each Sunday, is a woman. They are all excellent examples been one woman in training at Cuddesdon, which was of leadership within the Church, but my hon. Friend generally known as the bishop-making college. In the the Member for Worthing West makes a good and year I arrived, there were 13 women. It was the first time important point. I hope that I will be present when the that the college had had to make real accommodation archbishops consecrate the first woman bishop within for women. Cuddesdon was a strange place, with 72 people the Church of England. living in the same space: eating, drinking, worshipping and studying. It was very intense, and I think it was Diana Johnson: When does the hon. Gentleman think difficult for many women. Frankly, they were given a that might be? In light of the timetable that he thinks we hell of a time by some of the men. I have to confess might complete this year in Parliament, when does he that, in some regards, I think that was because some of think we might see the first woman bishop? the men were gay and did not want women intruding in their world. That is not true of the vast majority of gay Tony Baldry: Sorry, I hoped that I had made that men in the Church, who are supportive of women’s clear. If General Synod approves the Measure in July, ordination and ministry, but it was certainly true at the with God’s good grace and the help of Members of time. Indeed, the Church was going through a difficult Parliament, I hope that we can get it through by the end period because it did not know what to do about of this year and that we will see the first women consecrated inclusive—or not inclusive—language. Should it refer as bishops in 2014. Obviously, that depends on a whole to “all men” or “all men and women”, especially in the number of variables, including the work of the Crown creed and much of the liturgy? Some of us ostentatiously Nominations Commission and so forth, but I hope that refused to say just the word “men”. In retrospect, some we will see such a timetable. of that feels a little childish, but the role of women was hardly respected or honoured at all in the Church, and At the consecration service, the archbishop addresses there was a real conflict for many women. There still is the ordinands. I will conclude with a piece of text, in many parts of the Church, where the role model for a because it is a beautiful piece, but it is also worth woman is as a virgin and a mother at the same time. Not reminding ourselves what function the bishops actually many will be able to achieve that. perform. If one considers this text, there is absolutely no reason why women should not perform any of these In the Church hierarchy, which had the vicar and responsibilities just as well as men: curate, both of them men at the time, few women were “Bishops are called to serve and care for the flock of Christ. allowed to be lay readers, and some churches refused to Mindful of the Good Shepherd, who laid down his life for his allow them to give communion. It felt as though women sheep, they are to love and pray for those committed to their were fine for making cups of tea, as my hon. Friend the charge, knowing their people and being known by them. As Member for Kingston upon Hull North mentioned. principal ministers of word and sacrament, stewards of the They were fine for ironing the linen for the altar and for mysteries of God, they are to preside at the Lord’s table and to mending the cassocks, the albs and the humeral veils lead the offering of prayer and praise. They are to feed God’s pilgrim people, and so build up the Body of Christ. They are to and so on. They were even fine for polishing the silver, baptize and confirm, nurturing God’s people in the life of the and obviously for arranging the flowers, but when it Spirit and leading them in the way of holiness. They are to discern came to the serious business of running the Church, and foster the gifts of the Spirit in all who follow Christ, commissioning that had to be reserved for men. I know that this has them to minister in his name. They are to preside over the changed in many places, but it feels as though the work ordination of deacons and priests, and join together in the is not yet complete. As people were talking about the ordination of bishops. As chief pastors, it is their duty to share time that the change is taking, I was reminded of with their fellow presbyters the oversight of the Church, speaking in the name of God and expounding the gospel of salvation. With Longfellow’s brief poem: the Shepherd’s love, they are to be merciful, but with firmness; to “Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding minister discipline, but with compassion. They are to have a small; special care for the poor, the outcast, and those who are in need. They are to seek out those who are lost and lead them home with Though with patience he stands waiting, with exactness grinds rejoicing, declaring the absolution and forgiveness of sins to those he all.” who turn to Christ. Following the example of the prophets and the teaching of the apostles, they are to proclaim the gospel In other words, I think we will get there, but it is boldly, confront injustice, and work for righteousness and peace taking a long time. It feels as though those who are not in all the world.” prepared to step outside the Church because they are 15WH Women in the Church of England28 FEBRUARY 2012 Women in the Church of England 16WH

[Chris Bryant] However, if hearty adherents of the Church were asked to name the 12 apostles, I bet that most would not be frightened are none the less trying to die in the ditch of able to. It is also difficult to be precise about who the dilatoriness. They are just trying to delay, making it far apostles were. The gospel of St John names Nathaniel, more difficult for the Church to embrace its historic who is not included in Matthew, Mark or Luke. Mark mission. and Matthew both name Thaddeus, who does not appear There is a sad history of some people in the Church, in Luke. Instead, Luke names Jude the son of James, including senior leaders, not understanding how grossly often referred to as Jude the obscure—as opposed to offensive they have been at times. Graham Leonard, the Jude the extremely not obscure: Iscariot—yet Jude the former Bishop of London, said that a woman was no obscure is one of the apostles most frequently cited. more ordainable than a potato. That was a man who My only point about all that quibbling is that I do not was meant to be providing spiritual leadership, not just think the whole decision whether women should be to the men in his diocese but to everybody else as well. bishops can rest on the idea that Jesus supposedly called only men. He undoubtedly had many women followers, Sir Peter Bottomley: I once asked Graham Leonard who certainly considered themselves disciples. My hon. why he did not oppose the ordination of women as Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North deacons, although he opposed their ordination as priests referred to the scene in the garden on Easter Sunday and bishops. I asked, “Does it come down to the fact morning, where it was a woman who first experienced that you believe women were ordained as deacons before, the resurrection, and women undoubtedly played a but not as priests or bishops?” He said yes. That is a significant role in the early Church. plain example of the historical negative, let alone his other remarks. People sometimes have too light an understanding of the Bible and use it flippantly. I remember, many years ago, somebody complaining to me in a letter that we Chris Bryant: Yes. It rather reminds me of Cardinal kept producing new Bibles. He said, “King James wrote Martini—a fine name—who was asked in 1998 or 1999 the Bible in the 17th century, and I don’t see why we whether there would ever be women priests in the have to keep on translating it.” King James was an Roman Catholic Church. He said, “Not in this millennium.” interesting person, but I do not think that he wrote the Obviously, the millennium was about to come to an Bible. end, so I hope that he was anticipating change swiftly, and not within 1,000 years. People often refer to the story in Genesis. Genesis Senior clerics have sometimes not realised what bruises does not tell a creation story; it tells at least two stories. their supposedly theological utterings have inflicted on In the first, in Genesis 1:27, man and woman are many women in the Church who have felt seriously created at the same time: called to work for God, but have not been allowed to “So God created mankind in his own image, due to some flippant remark by a bishop or an archbishop. When it seems to be solely about manoeuvring and in the image of God he created them; whether there are two votes above two thirds in each of male and female he created them.” the three houses, it feels as if humanity has been lost and it has become a political game rather than anything It is absolutely, point-blank clear that it was all done in else. That is when the Church loses adherents, members one fell swoop. and the passionate, loving support of those who want Genesis 2 gives a completely different story.Interestingly, to be there with it. God decides that man is on his own, so He first decides A key argument that many people advance against to give him the beasts of the field and the birds in the the ordination of women, particularly as bishops, relates sky, then creates woman out of man’s rib, as my hon. to the fact that Jesus supposedly chose no female disciples. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North We do not actually know that. If asked how many said. I do not think that anyone thought when those disciples there were, most people would probably say stories were initially recounted that someone would be 12, but we have no idea how many there were. In Luke standing in Parliament today saying, “Youcannot ordain 10, Jesus sends out 70 in pairs, but the chapter does not women bishops because God decided it,” and that that say whether they were men or women. It says that there was a historically accurate version of events. I leave was a large crowd, and that the group was in addition to aside the tiny point that in the Bible, Adam and Eve had others that he had already sent out. two sons. How that could lead to the rest of humanity, I People say, “All right, but there were only 12 apostles. do not understand. We must know that.” Again, it is difficult. In Romans Interestingly, of course, in nearly all the Old Testament 16:7, St Paul refers to two apostles, Andronicus and creation narrative, the word used for the Holy Spirit is Junia. There is only one instance in the whole of classical “ruach”, a feminine word. In the Old Testament, the history where Junia is a man, and I suspect that it is not Holy Spirit is clearly female. In many interpretations this one. Those two people, probably husband and wife, in the later history of spirituality, beautifully recounted were in prison with Paul, and he described them as in Rowan Williams’s splendid first book “The Wound apostles. of Knowledge”, the spirit is female. The overlay of Likewise, in Matthew 10, Jesus appoints 12 apostles history has often made spirituality seem extremely and sends them out. I suspect that there were 12 in masculine—martyrs and all the rest of it, and an authority Matthew’s account in particular because he wanted to structure left in the hands of men—but the spiritual say that they were going to the lost sheep of Israel; it is insights of women in our history have been every bit as about the 12 tribes of Israel as much as anything else. significant as those of men. Our own country gave us 17WH Women in the Church of England28 FEBRUARY 2012 Women in the Church of England 18WH

Dame Julian of Norwich, although a lot of people The Church of England surely offers something different. think that Julian of Norwich was a man. Her spiritual Plenty of other Churches do not have women bishops insights are profound, and one need not look far, to or allow women to perform a full ministry, but I believe Teresa of Avila and many others around the world, to that the Church of England developed not just because see the same thing. of Henry VIII’s licentiousness, but because it had something The hon. Member for Banbury, who should at least genuine to offer—a middle ground between Protestantism be right hon. by now—it must be imminent; I feel grace and Catholicism, and a belief that the rational can falling upon him—asked whether the Church of England inform the spiritual and that disciplinary autonomy in can do it alone. For a start, it is not doing it alone. Other this country was important if there was to be a mission Churches have had women as bishops and in prominent to everyone in this country, regardless of whatever the roles for many decades, particularly some Lutheran Pope might say, do or insist upon from over the seas. Churches, to which we are allied. In addition, as has That was an important mission, and I think it survives been said, every single diocese in the Episcopal Church today. I have a terrible fear that some people want in the United States of America now has women priests, the Church of England to become a sect and not be and ECUSA has had a woman primate—“primate” is a Church at all, and I hope that that will be put behind always an odd word in the Anglican communion. Canada, us. New Zealand, Australia and even the Anglican communion A bishop has to be the centre of unity in the diocese. in Cuba have had women suffragan bishops. We are not That is why all the proposals, including those from the on our own. two archbishops, have completely misunderstood the Secondly, I thought that one of the fundamental theology of episcopacy. If someone is not the centre of teachings of the Anglican and Catholic Churches and, unity, surely they cannot be the bishop. Any proposal for that matter, the whole Orthodox communion, is that that parishes should be able to opt out of a bishop the sacrament does not depend on the person. That is to because the bishop is a woman is not only fundamentally say that even if the person who is giving communion, offensive and demeaning to the ministry of women—we who has stood up and recited, “who, in the same night should either do it or not do it—but will simply create a that He was betrayed, took bread” and all the rest of it, new style of wholly inappropriate schism in the Church. is a filthy, evil, horrible and nasty person—indeed, We were wrong to have flying bishops, and we would be many of them in the history of the Christian Church wrong to advance similar proposals. have been so—that does not mean that the sacrament I hope that when the bishops meet, soon, they do not does not work. That is absolutely essential. Anyone who make any changes at all—certainly no changes of substance. believes that the personality of an ordained woman I also hope that the Government will not shilly-shally somehow means that the sacrament that she presents about providing time for us to get on with it. The does not work is living in theological cloud cuckoo Ecclesiastical Committee should not have to wait until land. October. I am sure that it will take just one day. Why When I was at theological college, I remember clearly can it not meet in July, during the Olympics, or whenever? that Michael Ramsey, perhaps one of the greatest archbishops, was asked a question by a high Church Anglican trainee ordinand at St Stephen’s house in Tony Baldry: We will make all speed, but the reason is Oxford—the very high Church college. What should simply that various pieces of legislative drafting have to someone in a poor parish do if they had just bought an be done. General Synod does not meet until mid-July, expensive new altar carpet costing several thousands of and the House rises quite early this year because of the pounds, and some consecrated communion wine was Olympics, but I assure the hon. Gentleman that the spilt over it? I think the high Anglican lad thought that work will be done with all possible speed. the correct answer would be that since the wine had been consecrated, the carpet would have to be burned. Chris Bryant: It did not sound like it. I have enormous Michael Ramsey said, “Well, first of all, why a church respect for the hon. Gentleman—he has said some in a poor parish would buy an expensive carpet, I do sensible things on the matter and I know that he is on not understand. Secondly, and much more importantly, the side of the angels—but please do not use all that I am sure that if God knows how to get into it, He language; just get on with it. knows how to get back out of it.” I am absolutely sure that if we were to make a mistake with the consecration In the end, the only words on the issue that matter to of woman bishops, God would none the less somehow me are in Galatians 3:28, which I am sure all the people know how to make sure that we were all still receiving down the other end of the Chamber could repeat verbatim valid sacraments through them. with me, but we might be using different translations of the Bible, so let us not try: Sir Peter Bottomley: The reverend, learned hon. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor Gentleman could have reminded us about number 26 of female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” the articles of religion, which says that things done by evil men can still be sacramental. It refers to evil men, but not to evil women. 10.46 am Chris Bryant: Several articles need a little bit of The Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty’s Treasury reform. When I was a curate, my cassock had 28 buttons, (James Duddridge): It is a pleasure to serve under your and I did not do them all up for that very reason, but I chairmanship, Mr Chope. Sadly, the Minister for Equalities, have always been a little heterodox. I feel a bit disturbed the hon. Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Lynne when the hon. Gentleman refers to me as reverend; I Featherstone) cannot be here today, as she is on other think that is over. important ministerial duties at the United Nations in 19WH Women in the Church of England28 FEBRUARY 2012 Women in the Church of England 20WH

[James Duddridge] As a consequence of the special relationship between the Church and the state, all our citizens, whether New York, but she would have very much liked to reply members of the Church or not, have a legitimate interest in person. I hope that you will find me an agreeable in what the Church says and does. Therefore, it is very alternative. appropriate for us to debate such issues here in this I thank the hon. Member for Washington and Parliament. It is good that my right hon. Friend the Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) for originally securing Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake) the debate and congratulate the hon. Member for Kingston has contributed to the debate, because that demonstrates upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) on taking up the the issue is not only about the Church of England and baton, as has been pointed out. I thank the Second Christianity; it is about people of all faiths, and people Church Estates Commissioner, my hon. Friend the Member of no faith or no defined faith. for Banbury (Tony Baldry), who has given a lot of One of the key issues surrounding the place of women clarity on the Church of England’s case. It has been in the Church today is the question of women bishops, enlightening to hear about the parliamentary process which we have discussed significantly. Although I want that we may see in the future. to say something on that specific question, I would like The Church forms a vital part of our culture and to point out that just because we have a special place for heritage, and the fabric of our nation. Today’s debate is the Church within the state, it does not mean that the about women in the Church of England. Women already state should on a daily basis be quick or eager to involve play a vital role at a number of levels, from the top to itself in every single internal debate of the Church—or, the bottom. Some of the best vicars in the UK are indeed, that it should comment on its doctrines and women. Taking a totally random example—from practices. That very much applies to the question of Southend—Louise Williams, the vicar of St Andrew’s who should or should not be bishops, and the associated church, does an excellent and inspirational job, not questions of pastoral care for those who take a contrary because she is a woman, but because she is good at her view to that the Synod appears to be taking. job. My hon. Friend the Member for North Thanet (Sir As we have heard, the direction of travel seems to be Roger Gale) described himself as a reactionary, but one way. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) went on to say that the issue is about getting the right said that we will get there in the end. The debate is person for the job. That does not sound reactionary to about the timing of that travel, not the direction. As we me. I was heartened to hear my hon. Friend the Member have heard, the Church of England is moving forward for Banbury say that 50% of people in training now are and away from a position whereby only men can be women. appointed bishops. I understand and appreciate that the Moving from Southend, another, somewhat different, Church wants to consider the feelings of those who example is that of Her Majesty the Queen—a woman at disagree strongly with that move, including those the head of the Church of England. From top to who consider it is not possible as a matter of doctrine bottom, there are already women operating successfully for a woman to be made a bishop. in the Church of England. That question—how best to provide the appropriate support and pastoral care for those in the Church who Sir Peter Bottomley: Just to give an anecdote, when cannot accept or are having problems accepting this the Lord Bishop of London took up his post in November change—is vital. I recognise that dealing with it is a 1995, he was presented to the head of the Church—the difficult and sensitive task, but it is not one on which it Queen—by the Secretary of State, who was also a is beneficial for the Government to intervene. It is for woman. Of those three, the only one who was allowed the Church itself to decide whether it will appoint to be a bishop in those days, if otherwise qualified, was women bishops. We have been given examples by various Richard Chartres, because of his chromosomes. It seems hon. Members of women bishops elsewhere—Nova absurd that he could be presented by one woman to Scotia, Rhode Island and, indeed, Cuba. We need to another woman for a job that both women were disqualified consider what arrangements should be put in place to from. support those who cannot accept the change. As has been explained, once the General Synod has James Duddridge: We are in Lent, and my hon. finished its work, the matter will come before the Friend has his own self-imposed rule. I am rather glad Ecclesiastical Committee and then the House. I am he broke it again; that was a good intervention. He also grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury for talked about history.If we look back at the decision-making explaining the conversations he has had with the Leader process, it will seem even more ridiculous than it does of the House about providing time when necessary on now. the Floor of the House to deal with the matter appropriately. I will do anything I can to facilitate that process, both I would like to pay tribute to all the men and women from the Leader of the House’s perspective, the Whips’ in the Church who have been involved in invaluable perspective and the perspective of the Government work. The Church of England and those who serve in it Equalities Office. We will provide any assistance we can have a special place in this country and in this Parliament, to ensure that things are not unnecessarily delayed. particularly through the representation in Parliament of the 26 senior bishops and archbishops. My hon. Friend Tony Baldry: It would be very helpful if, immediately the Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) after the business relating to the Measure, the Government worried me a bit by turning up with a book on the could schedule a piece of Government business that period 1295-1340. That is not something the Minister necessitates a three-line Whip. for Equalities had familiarised me with in my briefing. I will speak to her about that on her return from New James Duddridge: I will pass that request to the Chief Yo rk . Whip, who I am sure will take full account of it. 21WH Women in the Church of England28 FEBRUARY 2012 Women in the Church of England 22WH

Diana Johnson: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Banbury was firm in his view that it could be as early as 2014. I, too, hope to attend such an event; it would be a James Duddridge: I will certainly give way to the hon. great privilege. Gentleman. The hon. Member for Rhondda was very entertaining in his speech. I think we would agree that my biblical Chris Bryant: She is not a gentleman. knowledge is not as good as his. However, I think I can go out on a limb—although it does not say so in my James Duddridge: Apologies. briefing—and say that the King James Bible was not written by King James. We do have some commonality. Diana Johnson: People keep calling me a gentleman. I His speeches are always amusing, but I was worried assume that the Queen’s Speech will be in a few months’ when he mentioned Cardinal Martini because I thought time. Will the Measure be in the Queen’s Speech? Do we might have a seedy “any place, any time, any where” the Government expect to announce it as part of their joke. I am glad that he steered us clear of such things. I legislative programme for the year ahead? think my local priest who took me through Sunday school and the confirmation process would be somewhat James Duddridge: I do not think that it is a Government shocked to know that I am responding on this matter Bill in that sense, so I would not expect it to be mentioned for the Government. If I had known when I was 14 that in the Queen’s Speech. However, I am not privy to that I would be responding— speech. I shall turn to the specific points that the hon. Member Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): The hon. for Kingston upon Hull North made so ably in picking Gentleman would have paid attention. up this brief. She drew comparisons with the Labour electoral college. I genuinely hope that she is wrong in that comparison, given the problems that there have James Duddridge: As the hon. Lady said, I would been. have paid an awful lot more attention. I am very grateful to the hon. Member for Rhondda Chris Bryant: Be nice. for not probing me on a number of deeply theological questions because that may be a slight chink in my James Duddridge: I am genuinely sympathetic and, as armour. Given I have a young family, on Sundays, I the hon. Gentleman knows, I am always nice. occasionally do things other than attend church. He On the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member gave us a very interesting tour de force on the apostles for Banbury, he used his own words to repeat the and, at times, I found that I was engaging in the debate underlying point that the hon. Member for Kingston and listening, which is always an unwise thing to do as a upon Hull North made: if there is a scintilla of deviation Minister and will no doubt worry the civil servants. He from what originally went through the General Synod, will have to explain to me at some point his rebellious it might be slightly more challenging to get things streak. He is always very entertaining in the House of through Parliament. A number of people involved in Commons, but not doing up one of his 28 buttons is not the process—the Synod, the bishops and the laity—will as rebellious as he has been on a number of other listen very carefully to the words he has chosen today things. and the words the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North chose. They will reflect very carefully on Chris Bryant: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? that because it is my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury, as the Second Church Estates Commissioner, who will take the Measure through. My hon. Friend has James Duddridge: The hon. Gentleman has been been in detailed discussions with everyone about the provoked. I apologise; it was probably unwise. subject, whether they are a reactionary, as he mentioned, or they are on the other side of the argument. The hon. Chris Bryant: It is not an unknown fact that a lot of Member for Kingston upon Hull North said that my clergy in the Church of England do not subscribe to all hon. Friend will be held to account because parliamentary the articles of religion that we are meant to sign up to questions will be tabled to the Second Church Estates when we are ordained. In fact, on the night before I was Commissioner. That is pretty much a polite parliamentary ordained, when I had to give my oath of allegiance, the threat—his card is marked. bishop who ordained me said, “It’s all right; I crossed I am glad that my hon. Friend the Member for my fingers as well.” Worthing West failed to give up making interventions for Lent, although I am somewhat surprised he did it so James Duddridge: I note that with interest. It was early. I hope that he has more success later. He raised a fascinating to understand the issues surrounding training, number of very interesting points. He will have to invite which the hon. Gentleman mentioned in some detail. me to his library because it must be incredibly extensive I look forward to finding out more. In conclusion, I if he has such a detailed knowledge on the subject. genuinely wish the General Synod and the Church I will not predict when the first woman bishop of the every success in their endeavours to sort out this very Church of England will be appointed. However, I was sensitive issue. I will follow the progress of the matter interested to note that my hon. Friend the Member for very carefully. 23WH 28 FEBRUARY 2012 Media Regulation 24WH

Media Regulation Charlotte Church’s phone was hacked in 2002, as were many others—another lie repeatedly told to Parliament. 10.59 am News International also maintained that the contagion was just about one newspaper. It had to keep on maintaining Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): From the sublime to that, because otherwise there was a danger that the the corrupt. First, I draw the attention of hon. Members whole thing would collapse around its ears. Now we to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial know that it was not. The Sun on Monday, The Sun on Interests. Tuesday, The Sun on Wednesday, The Sun on Thursday, I believe that a free press, a free Parliament and a free The Sun on Friday and The Sun on Saturday were in it society are intrinsic to one another. Investigative journalism, up to their necks just as much as the News of the World, campaigning journalism and, yes, even on occasion now renamed The Sun on Sunday. mischievous journalism are absolutely vital. They are There is then the illegal cover-up. We know for sure the best medication for our political sanity, both in the that senior figures at News International ordered the Palace of Westminster and in society generally. Of mass destruction of evidence—the clear, incontrovertible course, the press and the media entertain, but they evidence of corrupt payments to police that News also shine a light into the darker caves of modern life. International garnered together, gave to lawyers and We should never be naive—if we shine a light into squirreled away, and revealed to the public only very the darker caves, we sometimes get wrapped up in the recently. The authorities in the US should be investigating darkness ourselves. that, because I do not believe that a single member of Many people have told me in the past two years that I the board of directors of News Corp took their have become a bit obsessed with News International responsibilities in this regard seriously enough to prevent and that surely this cannot possibly have gone on only the payment of corrupt officials. at News International. I am absolutely sure that the Yesterday, it was revealed, though I have known for problems that we have seen at The Sun and the News of some time, that some of the people who were targeted the World may well have been replicated at the Daily by the News of the World were on the witness protection Mail, The Mail on Sunday, the Daily Express, the Daily scheme—people absolutely vital to securing convictions Mirror—all the national newspapers, in particular those against very dangerous people in society. They rely trying to pursue what I call celebrity gossip, which was absolutely on the state to protect them, so that they can often where this kind of journalism was going on. deliver justice for others. The only people who could There are three distinctive things about News have given those names and telephone numbers to the International’s contribution. First, there is hard evidence News of the World are the Metropolitan police, who are of what went on at News International. If there were to meant to be the there to defend us. That single fact—it be hard evidence on any of the other newspapers, I is not helpful to know the names—is one of the most hope the police would investigate with the full thoroughness destructive of all. with which they are now investigating News International. We know from yesterday that Tom Crone, the News Secondly, there was a major cover-up at News International, of the World’s head of legal affairs, wrote to the then which stretched right up to the very highest levels of the News of the World editor Andy Coulson on 15 September company—as we know, even up to James Murdoch. In 2006 outlining what Rebekah Wade, now Brooks, told the end, I suspect that that will prove to have been the him about the information relayed to her by the cops. biggest crime. Thirdly, News International is owned by That is like the FBI going to Don Corleone and telling News Corporation, which has the largest holding in him that it has a bit of information on what his family BSkyB. That makes it quantifiably and qualitatively has been up to—an extraordinary thing for us to witness. different from any of the other newspaper holdings in I suspect that people are so punch drunk with all the this country. different stories in the past two years that they almost It is important to remember some of the background fail recognise its significance. The e-mail states: to the debate. Some 10 journalists at The Sun, and, as I “They suggested that they were not widening the case to understand it, 24 employees of the News of the World, include other NoW people, but would do so if they got direct have been arrested. They are all on police bail. Police evidence, say NoW journos directly accessing the voicemails (this and other public servants have also been arrested. The is what did for Clive).” culture of mass corruption was intrinsic to The Sun’s In other words, people right at the top of the News of modus operandi. One public employee received bribes the World knew in 2006 exactly what had gone on, and of more than £80,000. One journalist at The Sun had everything that they have said since has been a pack of more than £150,000 to disburse in illegal cash payments. lies. In total, I believe—my poor old researcher has had So far as we have been told, they were not for grand to count them—there have been 486 lies to Parliament projects of investigative journalism, but to pursue salacious between News International, the police and other gossip. A series of private investigators were used, probably organisations. The police effectively became a partly not as private investigators, but as paid informants. For owned subsidiary of News International, with some example, Philip Campbell Smith was sent to jail yesterday people working at News International then going on to for obtaining private information for cash—another work for the Met and some people working at the Met person caught up in this saga. then going on to work for News International. For a long time, News International maintained that We know also that the Met, in its strategy to deal there was one rogue reporter at the News of the World. with victims of Glenn Mulcaire’s activities, bizarrely We now know that that was a lie told on several occasions got in contact with The Mail on Sunday to tell it that its to Parliament. In an attempt to protect Rebekah Brooks journalists’ phones had been hacked—an irony there; and Andy Coulson, News International said that the clearly, there is no honour among thieves. However, hacking started in 2004 and not before then. However, the Met did not contact all the other victims, including 25WH Media Regulation28 FEBRUARY 2012 Media Regulation 26WH the then Deputy Prime Minister. The Met was saying, His comments are untrue. I do not believe that Members right up until February last year, that his phone had not of either House of Parliament want to control the press. been hacked. We now know that Metropolitan police That should never be our business. He is making that up officers knew for certain that his phone had been hacked and should withdraw the comment. I note that he has in 2007. gone native, because he is already using unattributed This is a problem for politicians, because every element comments, which is of course what most newspaper of the regulatory regime failed. The directors of the articles these days seem to consist of. company did not exercise their fiduciary responsibility, I say to the PCC chairman that I have no desire to either in the UK or in the US. The Press Complaints control, muzzle, undermine or enfeeble the press. I want Commission failed completely in its duty.The Metropolitan a robust, even scabrous, press to hold the powerful to police were suborned. The courts provided justice only account and to probe and bring the truth to light with very slowly and at great expense and financial risk to courage and determination, within the bounds of the those involved. Parliament failed to do its full duty. Let law and common decency and without hubris. It is me start with the PCC. hubris, in the end, that has done for News International. We need a new body—not the PCC dressed up in a The PCC, throughout all this, has proved to be new fur coat—imbued with different principles and on a toothless gaggle of incompetent crones. At every a different standing. It is clear that it must be independent turn, it has tried to defend the idea of self-regulation. of the Government, but it must also be independent of Sir Christopher Meyer, whose period in charge of the the newspapers, because otherwise it will not command PCC was probably one of the most dismal records of the respect of the British people. It must have statutory public service yet seen, has defended what went on teeth provided to it in statute law, so that it can enforce during his time. He has even defended the PCC against its decisions. It must have an independent chairman, the accusations relating to what the press did regarding not a member of the legislature and certainly not a Christopher Jefferies. Why the PCC did not intervene to journalist or someone who takes a party political Whip. say, “I’m sorry folks, it is quite clear what you are doing; It must have the power to enforce redress and, if necessary, you are compromising the course of justice. You must to fine. For instance, it should be able to say, “If you’ve desist,” I cannot understand. published a story on the front page attacking somebody and it proves completely libellous, the response—the Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): I congratulate retraction—must be on the front page, if the victim of the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. As weak, that libel wants.” The new body, whatever it is called, appalling and hopeless as the PCC has been, does he needs to have that power. Ofcom is not that bad a model acknowledge that the PCC only applies to those newspapers for us to pursue. that voluntarily opt in? Other newspapers do not opt in, The Minister said on “Question Time” last week that which puts a big question mark over the self-regulation a new body still had to be self-regulating. He slipped process. that in rather quietly. It is not the view of the Prime Minister, who has made it clear that the body needs to Chris Bryant: The hon. Gentleman, whom I count as be independent of the Government and the press. The a friend in these matters, is right. That issue needs to be Minister is obviously on the edge of his political career addressed and is one reason why the answer that the at the moment in respect of that disagreement. Self- PCC is coming up with at the moment—a contractual regulation is long past the last chance saloon; it has had arrangement—will not do the trick, because by definition its last gin and tonic. It is time for a new body that is a contract can only be entered into by two willing completely independent. volunteers. I do not see how we can proceed in that way. I have some suggestions on how to deal with the problem in other areas. For me, the biggest problem Let us not forget that Baroness Buscombe, when she relates to ownership. At one point, News International was PCC chair, was so fatally compromised by having had nearly 40% of the newspaper share and the largest been appointed by her cronies in the newspapers and by part of the single biggest broadcaster in this country. the editors of the major newspapers that she far too BSkyB is often not referred to as a broadcaster these readily leapt to the defence of the News of the World days, because in most people’s minds it is the platform and News International, condemned The Guardian and on which broadcasts are provided. The Communications ended up having to pay damages to a Guardian journalist Act 2003 needs radical surgery in this regard and must and a lawyer because of how she conducted herself. I do be amended to catch up and include platforms, which not think that she did due diligence. She is now blaming are often the most anti-competitive element of the the News of the World, saying that it lied to her. I do not business, in the ownership structure. think that she ever asked the serious questions that At the moment, the only restriction on ownership is needed to be asked. that if someone owns 20% of the newspaper share they The new PCC chairman regularly criticises politicians are not allowed to have more than 20% of ITV.We need for being politicians. I merely say to him that he is a to be far more radical and say, first, that there is a cap politician. He is in the legislature and was a Minister on the amount of the whole of the media world that and a Member of Parliament; he takes the Conservative people can have and, secondly, if they are to own Whip. He was questioned at the Leveson inquiry: newspapers and broadcasters there has to be a lower cap on how much of that they can enjoy. The Secretary “Do you think that Parliament might seek to use any form of legislation, however it was cast, as a way of controlling the of State for Culture, Media and Sport has asked Ofcom press?” to consider this matter in relation to news only. We need to consider that market, but we also need to consider He said: the whole. We need to reform the language on the fit “Yes, and they have told me so, many of them in both houses.” and proper person, on which Ofcom has to adjudicate. 27WH Media Regulation28 FEBRUARY 2012 Media Regulation 28WH

Zac Goldsmith: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that should be no public interest. The corollary is that, just no matter what regulation or self-regulation emerges as the Director of Public Prosecutions and the Crown from the Leveson process, as long as individuals and Prosecution Service always have to decide, first, whether individual corporations control such a large percentage they are likely to obtain a conviction and, secondly, of the news, it is inevitable—unavoidable—that Parliament whether it would be in the public interest to prosecute, and the democratic process itself will always bend beneath so we should give a specific power to the DPP to decide those interests? not to prosecute in media cases. There will be times when a journalist will rightly Chris Bryant: Absolutely spot on. I agree. In addition, break the law because there is greater criminality to be it is inevitable that political parties, craven as we are, detected. I suspect that the journalists in the United will seek to influence somebody with so much concentration States of America who revealed Watergate broke the of media ownership and the relationship will become law on many occasions, but no one prosecuted—wisely, too close. Tidying this up is for the good of us all. It is because they were revealing greater criminality and not just for those of us who take a particular view about levels of corruption. Such an option should, manifestly, News International; it is about any potential conglomeration be available to the DPP and CPS. in future. Let me say something about the public interest test. In relation to the fit and proper person test, one The PCC has its own test: danger is that because so many members of the BSkyB “The public interest includes, but is not confined to…Detecting board have been there for way in excess of the eight or exposing crime or serious impropriety…Protecting public health years that is now considered to be the maximum time and safety…Preventing the public from being misled by an action that people can be considered as an independent director, or statement of an individual or organisation”, to all intents and purposes none of that board’s members and, secondly: is now an independent director. That is bad for BSkyB. “There is a public interest in freedom of expression itself.” I could go on at great length about why BSkyB operates on a monopolistic basis. It uses its application programming That test, frankly, is riddled with holes. To say that there interface, its operating system and its hoovering up of is a public interest in freedom of expression itself is a rights, in a way, to crowd out any new entrants to the circular argument—that, basically, it is better to reveal market. Broadcasting is always intrinsically prone to whatever it is even if there is no other public interest at monopoly, because it costs a lot to make a programme all. That idea is mistaken; we should not look at the and relatively little to give it to 1,000 people, rather than public interest but at the public good. Many people—many to 2,000, 3,000 or 4,000. That is why statutory intervention editors—confuse the public interest with what the public is needed. are interested in, but the public can be made to be interested in absolutely anything. We need reform in relation to seeking redress. I have already mentioned the powers that a new body might One of the ironies of the past 20 years is that the have, but we also need legal redress through the courts tabloid newspapers in particular, seeing the collapse of that is cheaper than the present arrangements. Let me their circulation, have ended up pursuing titillating, give figures in relation to myself. I was awarded £30,000 salacious stories about who is sleeping with whom and in a settlement. My legal costs came to some £300,000 all the rest of it, thinking that celebrity would maintain and are being paid by News International because of their circulation. They have tended to do that in a the settlement. That is the normal proportion in such pejorative, condemnatory and judgmental way, but we situations. The maximum that has ever been awarded in cannot have prurience and judgmentalism together—they a privacy case by the courts is £60,000, yet if people go just do not fit. If we are going to be prurient, we have to to court in a privacy case their costs will be between give up on the judgmentalism, which in practice is what £300,000 and £500,000 and they may have to meet the has happened. costs of the other side as well, which might be in excess of that. Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. I am listening For the sake of both newspapers and ordinary members with great interest, and he has brought up many relevant of the public, we need a cheaper way of doing this. We points. To dip my foot in the water a little, can we look should set up some form of small claims court, perhaps further than newspapers and expand the discussion to limiting awards to £20,000 or £25,000. Such a process all forms of media, including social media? I have would not be heavy on lawyers—people would not need worked in the media for 14 years and know how they legal representation—and cases would be fairly simply shapeshift and move into different areas. Does he agree and straightforwardly adjudicated, but they would go that regulation must capture that as well, because social through the court system, which has true independence media are currently more or less free from control? built into it. Anyone can go or could have gone in there to collect We need to change some elements of the law. First, in data, photographs and conversations, which could be relation to interception, it is clear in the law that if used for the same purposes, but without redress because people listen to a voicemail message after the person for we are not dealing with giant organisations that we can whom it was intended they are still intercepting it. Some have a Leveson inquiry into. believe that this matter is not quite as clear as crystal. Perhaps we should clarify that position. That is not to Chris Bryant: Social media are a vital part of news resile from the existing state of the law, which is perfectly now. I sometimes say to people who worry about the adequate, but for the sake of clarity. future of the media in Wales that I get most of my news Similarly, we should take away the public interest about my constituency not from the Rhondda Leader, defence for blagging. If someone is obtaining private the Western Mail—it was never from there, actually—or information about someone else by deception, there the South Wales Echo but from Twitter, which is by far 29WH Media Regulation28 FEBRUARY 2012 Media Regulation 30WH the fastest newsfeed. I certainly learn things before they has completely avoided touching anything of a criminal are announced by Ministers in Parliament, and that is nature—rightly, because no one wants to compromise true for most newspapers. I know that half of what I the ongoing criminal investigations or the prosecutions read on Twitter will be untrue, so it is fine for me to that I suspect may follow. In the end, however, I think dismiss it, but something in a newspaper, supposedly, we will find that this has been the single largest corporate has the authoritative seal of truth. corruption case in this country for more than 250 years.

Esther McVey: The hon. Gentleman might know that 11.28 am 50% of what he reads is untrue, but when data are collected, added online and someone does a form of Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con): People Google check on people and their history, anything in Westminster Hall have listened with interest to the found is taken as definitive. Does he agree that that, too, hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant). I come with should come under the same form of scrutiny and a slightly different perspective. I should declare that I exacting regulation? have taken successful defamation actions against a number of newspapers, but they are not relevant to what I will Chris Bryant: Social media should not have the same say. I put on the record that the Organisation for regulation, but they should have the same exacting Security and Co-operation in Europe has a media self- scrutiny so, yes, of course I agree. There is no point in us regulation guide that I commend to all. It takes a legislating for a world that died five years ago, which is perspective beyond this country. almost always what happens with communications Acts, Media regulation can be seen as what the media by definition. I remember one debate in the House of themselves should be doing, or as what people do to the Lords on the Communications Bill in 2002, when two media. On the whole, I am more interested in what the supposed experts talked about black and white television media choose to do themselves. I regret that the ways of licences, which I think had already been discontinued. holding print journalism to account basically disappeared There is no point in having legislation that does not when the Hard News programme with Ray Snoddy was meet the future as well as today. dropped. We ought to be able to justify a weekly serious I wish to finish on the issue of lying to Parliament. news television programme looking at what the media Members will know that it is available to Parliament, do. I recognise that the media pages of the broadsheet through the Speaker or the Chairman of a Select newspapers include serious coverage by people who Committee, under the Parliamentary Witnesses Oaths have had a great deal of experience in the media, but the Act 1871, which was added to by the Perjury Act 1911, ability to use the power of broadcasting to hold people to insist that a witness providing evidence to the Commons to account and to make available to all what is known to do so on oath. It is difficult, if doing an investigation a few would be useful. that goes on for six months, to decide suddenly that the I do not stand here as a supporter of News Corp, or one witness who is coming before the Committee on a News International, or the papers to which the hon. particular day needs to give evidence on oath, because Member for Rhondda referred, but I am not antagonistic that would imply that they are the one person who to them in general. However, I recollect that when John cannot be trusted. I would prefer us to move to a model Biffen was Secretary of State for Trade he did not refer in which every person who gives evidence to a Select to the Monopolies Commission the takeover of The Committee does so on oath. Sunday Times and The Times, when The Sunday Times I am concerned that the Government want to introduce was profitable but The Times certainly was not. Two a new parliamentary privilege Bill which, as I understand Government Back Benchers voted against the Government. it, will put into statute provision on oaths. The danger One was Jonathan Aitken, and I was the other. I am not with that is that if someone lied to Parliament, the case suggesting that the takeover would not have been cleared, would be decided in the courts, but the courts would but it should have been referred. Before that debate and almost certainly ask whether the Committee had the vote, I asked Harold Evans whether he would let me right to ask the question, as a judge in a court might ask have some information. He said he would, but he did whether a question was inappropriate and rule that it not. When he later fell out with his proprietor, he asked need not be answered. Was the witness being bullied? me to join his campaign to expose the wrong that had Was the witness having a question sprung on them to been done, and I said, “You’re a bit late, mate.” which they could not possibly know the answer? Were A programme this morning—I forget whether it was they being ganged up on, and so on? The danger is that on BBC 1 or Sky News—had an excerpt on elements of we would lose control of our own proceedings. the independent media in Russia, where some proprietors We should act robustly in relation to those who have of independent television and radio channels are having lied to us; they should be summoned to the Bar of the great pressure put on them by powerful people. We House and, as in the 1950s, we should not be frightened should know more about what is going on around the of telling people where to get off when they have world when people suffer such pressure, and there should manifestly, in effect, put two fingers up to Parliament. I be a way of providing international interest and pressure am not convinced, however, that that element needs to so that the sort of media dominance that former President be in statute law. Berlusconi developed in Italy can be challenged. If what Many people think that we have heard the last bit of is happening in the media in one country cannot be this story, but I suspect that we have just crept into act challenged, persistent and reasonably consistent IV, scene ii, after being in act III, scene ii, for a long international pressure and interest is necessary. time. I hope that hon. Members will bear it in mind that The only profitable paper that Rupert Murdoch and although we might be punch drunk about the story, his media took over in Britain was The Sunday Times. there are a lot more punches to come. So far, Leveson The Times was not profitable, and what became The Sun 31WH Media Regulation28 FEBRUARY 2012 Media Regulation 32WH

[Sir Peter Bottomley] that if it was not allowed to have a significant share in a television company, it would get us. Fourteen days after was not profitable. He started his satellite television she made the decision that it would not get what it service from scratch, and it is arguable that by choosing wanted, it put a 14-year-old member of our family on analogue he stopped us having a world lead. Robert the front page of its paper. I am not saying that the two Maxwell’s competitor satellite service, which was digital, were necessarily connected, but it seemed suspicious at could have taken us further ahead, but one was the time. There will be casualties in an open society, and commercially successful and one was not. That is the we must accept that people make mistakes and that way the market goes. people suffer. I realise that the hon. Member for Rhondda and our There is value in the press undertaking investigations current media have a great interest in what the News of that others choose not to, and publishing information the World and perhaps some of its fellow papers did, that the powerful do not want published, and on balance but we should not believe that they are the only ones to we gain far more by reducing the amount of externally have caused casualties in some of their ways of operation. imposed regulation. Most of us get most of our news Mostly, they gather news and entertainment, putting it from the BBC. Its news coverage and transmissions, all together, and sell it commercially. There are times from Radio 1 to Radio 4 and the amount of news and when it is possible to apply pressure. I remember being current affairs on BBC 1 particularly—copied well by asked to go on Radio 4’s “Today” programme when The commercial television and Sky News—are important. I Sun had published a photograph of one of the Queen’s do not envy editors who are responsible for judgments children, taken 16 years ago when he and various friends on how to obtain and check information, and then in Canada were jumping into a lake without clothes on. decide what to broadcast and how to broadcast it. The Crowns were drawn across their middles in the photograph. question then arises of how to regulate, how to control, The deputy editor of The Sun was asked about that and how to obtain redress, and those are the matters before I was interviewed, and he explained why he that we should keep in mind. If anyone asked me to vote thought that was legitimate. I was then asked what I for externally imposed regulation, which would reduce thought, and I said that if anyone was looking for the opportunity for people knowing what journalists naked bodies in the papers, there were more in The and other media workers believe should be made available, Guardian, but in the arts pages rather than the so-called I would do so with great reluctance, if at all. news pages. I said that anyone who is frightfully worried The regulation system for the BBC is wrong, but it is about naked bodies should never have a bath, because not enormously wrong. The BBC should have a chairman. all of us have one. I also said that if anyone thought that Having a chairman of the trust who is not officially the The Sun had made a mistake in publishing the photograph, chairman to whom the director-general is responsible there was no point telling it because it had explained as an individual is wrong, but that is what Parliament why it thought it was all right. I suggested going to a decided, and it may take another cycle of change at the branch of one of the 10 named advertisers who had BBC for that to change. Ofcom has done pretty well, full-page advertisements in The Sun and saying, “I’m but we should provide a forum where people who work not going to boycott you; I’m not even going to boycott in the media and feel that they cannot get important The Sun, but if you talk to The Sun could you please say stories broadcast or published could put such information that I think it made a mistake.” Within 36 hours, The so that we know what is cut out. Too often, the inhibitions Sun had apologised. There was similar pressure when on editors and journalists are greater than we know The Sun published the Queen’s Christmas message in from outside. advance, and it apologised for that. I understand what the hon. Gentleman said in his Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): Does the introduction to the debate. I do not believe that the hon. Gentleman agree that my hon. Friend the Member Government necessarily have the answers to all the for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) made a powerful case on questions, and I do not believe that they should have. It retraction? At the moment, when there is misrepresentation is often for the public will or the public mood in which or a deliberate lie, it does not matter much to the people there are many activists. I commend to those who are who perpetrate it because if they are eventually told interested Article 19: Global Campaign for Free Expression, that they must publish a retraction, they can do so, which has a rather more balanced approach than we comfortable in the knowledge that it will be on page 36, have necessarily heard this morning. somewhere between the crossword and the horoscope. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, as my hon. Friend said, we should have like with like, and that we need 11.38 am teeth to do so? Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): I congratulate Sir Peter Bottomley: I am not sure that we should be my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) doing that; I think they should be doing that. As I on securing this debate. The issue is important, and as understand it, the proposals for a revised system for the ever he made an excellent speech and a compelling case. Press Complaints Commission, or whoever its successor I want to make an undeclaration, and to make it absolutely might be, will require that any retractions and apologies clear that I am not related to Clive Goodman. that are negotiated or ordered will have to have agreed Her Majesty’s Opposition are basing their perspective prominence, and not be tucked away in the middle or on of the issue on two principles. The first is the importance the back pages. That problem is in hand. of free speech, which is guaranteed in the European I am not suggesting that we can have a perfect convention on human rights, and the Human Rights system. When my wife was a Minister, a senior person Act. From that flows the free press, which is essential in in another news group, not News International, said our open democracy. 33WH Media Regulation28 FEBRUARY 2012 Media Regulation 34WH

The second critical perspective is that of the ordinary definition of the public interest would provide the flexibility citizen. The phone hacking of the abducted and that we need to ensure proper, genuine and useful subsequently murdered schoolgirl, Milly Dowler, led to journalism, and help to weed out the rubbish and abuse public horror and was why the Leader of the Opposition that we have seen over the past few years. called for a public inquiry. We were pleased to support the Prime Minister in establishing the Leveson inquiry Helen Goodman: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely and agreeing the terms of reference. My hon. Friend right and we must distinguish between occasions when described the horrors of the phone hacking that have the press pursues the public interest or public good, and emerged before the Leveson inquiry, but I suggest, as occasions when it does not. When the DPP produces his everybody in the Chamber will know, that the issues run guidance, however, I do not think that he will define wider than that. the public interest. If, for example, I were to say that the I have heard from a number of ordinary constituents public interest includes uncovering crime and corruption, who have been abused by the press. Such cases seem to or demonstrating hypocrisy by people in high office, the have become a common occurrence, and I want to tell problem is that it would be difficult to encapsulate one story—although I have others—about a woman everything. Therefore, if we were to go down that path, who had a double-page spread written about her and we would have to think about including everything else photographs taken inside her home. She was described as well. I am not convinced that the public interest itself as a person who could not keep a house—in truth, her needs to be defined, although we do need greater clarity house was a tip; the Aggie programme would have had in the way that the test is applied. a field day—or control her children. The newspaper did The problem is that the press has ignored the law and not say, however, that the woman was a victim of the police have not enforced it. Another major problem domestic violence, which was crucial to understanding concerns the inequity that exists in this country when her situation. This woman was extremely alarmed, hurt people deal with the press. A person on a low income and upset by the coverage that she received, but she was can go to the Press Complaints Commission, but it can the sort of person who did not know that she had any offer them only a published apology or perhaps a letter. rights and would not begin to understand the notion of Wealthy people, however, can go to court, which is why redress. We want a system that works for people like we have seen them receiving big payouts. People have her: we do not have such a system at the moment. said, “There seem to be an awful lot of celebs at the The press is already subject to a vast number of laws. Leveson inquiry”, but that is because celebs can afford For example, on matters of content such as racial to pursue their cases, and those are the stories that we incitement, the press is subject to the same laws as know about. We do not know about the victim of everybody else, and as my hon. Friend said, there are domestic violence whom I mentioned at the beginning also laws that relate to the process by which stories are of my speech, or about the child involved in the criminal acquired. The big issue currently under discussion around justice system, because they have not been able to the country is whether the press should have any special pursue their cases. legal privileges. Before Christmas, the managing editor of The Sun Chris Bryant: People who do not have a lot of money—I argued that the press should have an exemption from do not have a lot of money—have been helped by the the Bribery Act 2010. Following yesterday’s evidence to conditional fee agreement, which many would refer to the Leveson inquiry, however, we are bound to think as the no win, no fee arrangement. Such agreements that such an argument may have something to do with worked particularly in cases of privacy and defamation The Sun’s business model. I do not think that the press because the amount that a person might eventually should have special legal exemptions. I agree with the receive would be so low—£60,000 at most, and in many Lord Chancellor: everybody should be subject to the cases £20,000, £25,000 or £30,000—that they could not law. The Attorney-General has made a number of sensible possibly pay all their legal fees. The danger with the statements to say that although a free press and free Government’s changes to conditional fee agreements is speech are vital, the press must respect people’s other that it will be the poor who are unable to get justice. rights, such as the right to a fair trial. Would it not make sense to have an exemption for My hon. Friend raised the issue of whether the press privacy and libel cases? should have a public interest defence when acquiring stories, and we look forward with interest to the guidance Helen Goodman: I was going to ask the Minister that the Director of Public Prosecutions has promised whether he will go back to his colleagues in the Ministry to produce. At the moment, the public interest test is of Justice and address the clauses in the Legal Aid, applied by the DPP when deciding whether to prosecute Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill, which is a journalist. currently before Parliament. It would be good if Ministers from the Department for Culture, Media and Sport Zac Goldsmith: Does the hon. Lady agree that a legal took seriously their responsibilities and got Ministers definition of the public interest would provide the flexibility from the Ministry of Justice to shift their position. that commentators in the press are asking for? Most of We have briefly discussed the fact that we need a free the corruption and the abuses that we heard about press that pursues the public interest. Just like books yesterday, and over the past few months, do not amount and magazines, newspapers have a VAT exemption which, to the noble pursuit of truth but are actually pretty I understand from questions that I have asked of Her squalid. There are exceptions, however; Watergate, which Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, is worth £150 million. was cited by the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris It seems to me that the public expect to get something Bryant), is an example in which laws may have been for their £150 million—namely a responsible newspaper broken in the pursuit of something valuable. A legal industry. 35WH Media Regulation28 FEBRUARY 2012 Media Regulation 36WH

[Helen Goodman] independent of those who are regulated with respect to the decisions that are taken, the governance and the Everybody who contributes to this morning’s debate budgetary control. will say that they favour press freedom. There is, however, Mr Richards went on to set out other qualities that a sometimes confusion about what we mean by that. I good system should have. He mentioned clear objectives, just want to tease out some distinctions in relation to an investigative capacity, transparency of process, power that small phrase. Of course, everyone agrees that we to sanction and public accountability—something that need freedom of expression in a free society. If, after we have not looked at enough in relation to the PCC, this debate is over, people want to say, “The Member for which is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act Bishop Auckland made a terrible speech and I didn’t or all the usual accountability mechanisms of bodies agree with a word of it,” that is fine by me; they are free that are pursuing public interests. The system must also to do that. However, I do not think that that freedom of be accessible to complainants. expression extends to a licence to ride roughshod over In the light of what has happened, I would like to add both the law and ethical considerations in order to four further points. No one should be above the law. pursue stories. The financial compensation that people receive should We need to be very clear about the distinction between be related to the wrong that they have suffered, not the freedom with respect to the content of what is written depth of their own back pocket. We need to see competent and freedom in terms of the process that the media use management systems and proper audit trails in the to acquire stories. If we take seriously that distinction media industries. As the hon. Member for Wirral West between process and content—Onora O’Neill wrote a (Esther McVey) said, we need to look across to the new very interesting essay on this before Christmas—we will media as well, because otherwise we could simply set up find it very helpful. I say that because when we look at a system or see a system set up that made traditional the systems that apply—the PCC and whatever we newspapers completely uneconomic, with everything would like to succeed the PCC—we are looking at migrating to the net. We would then have the wild west systems that address the processes, not at systems that on the net, which would not be acceptable, so the hon. control what people write. No Opposition Member Lady was right to raise that point. and, I am sure, no Government Member has any interest Obviously, this is a difficult and complex area, and it in standing in a newsroom with a big red pen. That is would be good if the industry could produce some not what we are talking about. solutions that met the criteria that have been outlined. So far, we have seen some very positive and interesting The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, ideas put forward to Lord Justice Leveson by Alan Olympics, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey) indicated Rusbridger in relation to the Reynolds defence and the assent. Omand principles, which show what The Guardian has done and how it has kept ahead of the PCC code. Helen Goodman: I am glad that the Minister is nodding; We have also seen proposals from the current chair of we clearly have a consensus on that. However, if there is the PCC, Lord Hunt of Wirral, who, as my hon. Friend to be more discipline in relation to processes, that the Member for Rhondda reminded the Chamber, takes obviously requires the institutions, organisations and the Tory Whip in the House of Lords. Lord Hunt seems corporations themselves to have some proper internal to be putting forward a convoluted construction of management control. commercial contracts between press and regulator. I [SANDRA OSBORNE in the Chair] would like to ask a number of questions about that proposal. First, is it not the institutionalisation of agency I am pleased to welcome you to the Chair, Ms Osborne. capture? Secondly, if it is based on contracts between I have to say that it was pathetic to hear James the regulator and the regulated, how can the regulator Murdoch before the Select Committee on Culture, Media be truly independent? Will not the regulator always be and Sport saying that he did not know in answer to all looking over his or her shoulder to see whether membership the questions that the Committee was putting to him. I or income might be lost? That does not seem to meet am leaving to one side the question whether all those the criteria for independence set out by Ed Richards in answers were, strictly speaking, accurate and truthful. his speech. He seemed to think that not knowing was some kind of My next question is how the proposal can guarantee excuse, but in a well run organisation, the people at the 100% coverage. Of course, it might guarantee 100% top should know what is going on. It is not an excuse coverage in the short term. It might be that Lord Hunt, not to know. I have written about that in more detail, who is an extremely persuasive and plausible man, can and people can see what I have written on my website. I get people to sign up now, but what guarantee is there now want to talk about the move to a new system and that people will not subsequently want to leave such a the criteria that a new system must fulfil. system? Is it not really designed to maintain the existing My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for “cosy club” style of regulation? Do other hon. Members Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman) made a speech really believe that those commercial contracts will satisfy in Oxford last month, in which she highlighted three the public, given everything that they have seen come criteria. A new system must be independent, must be out in the Leveson inquiry? citizen-centric and must have 100% coverage of all On Sunday, on the television, Lord Hunt claimed newspapers. At the same conference shortly afterwards, that he had the support of political parties for the and very helpfully, Ed Richards, the head of Ofcom, proposal. I have to say that he does not have the support spelt out the meaning of independence. Independence of Her Majesty’s Opposition for the proposal. Has the means independent of political influence and independent Minister met Lord Hunt? Has the Minister agreed the of those who are regulated. The system needs to be proposal? I believe that we should wait for Lord Justice 37WH Media Regulation28 FEBRUARY 2012 Media Regulation 38WH

Leveson to fulfil the inquiry that the whole House and it is supervised by the Independent Police Complaints agreed it wanted him to undertake. We all agreed that Commission. So far, those operations have seen 17 and that was important—that we needed the independence 21 arrests respectively. of a senior judge. I hope that the Minister will say that he, too, agrees that we should wait for Lord Justice Chris Bryant: As the Minister may know, I asked Leveson to report, and that he does not accept the Rebekah Brooks and Andy Coulson on 11 March 2003 hysterical criticisms that were made of Lord Justice whether they had ever paid police officers for information. Leveson by the Secretary of State for Education. They said that they had, but only within the law, even though such payments are obviously a criminal offence, 11.58 am and it is not possible to make them within the law. My anxiety, however, is this. Although there is an investigation The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, into these issues in the Metropolitan police, I am pretty Olympics, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey): It is a certain they have happened fairly extensively around pleasure to finish the debate under your chairmanship, the country. We only have to see how regularly the press Ms Osborne, it having begun under the chairmanship turn up for the arrest of some famous person, having of Mr Chope, whose name still appears in front of you, mysteriously guessed when it would happen. Will the which could confuse—well, it certainly should not confuse Minister make sure that Operation Elvedon is not restricted anyone who is watching the debate either on television and that each of our police forces cleans up its act? or in this Chamber this morning, which is about to become this afternoon. Mr Vaizey: Police operations are, of course, independent I congratulate the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris of the Government, as indeed is the Leveson inquiry, Bryant) on calling this timely debate on a subject that I but I am sure the hon. Gentleman’s point will have been think it is safe to say has been in the news for many heard and taken on board by the respective police months. He may or not may recall that I praised him— forces. perhaps presciently—in my maiden speech in 2005 as a The Government are clear that we need to get to the fine Back Bencher. I do not think that anyone gets bottom of this issue. We need to restore public trust in bored with praise and I am sure that he is aware that the regulation and activities of all our newspapers, and many people in the House have admired the way he has only an independent inquiry can do that. Let me also fought his corner on this issue over the last few months emphasise, however, that that should not be characterised and, indeed, years. as an attack on the press. As I said, the Government are Each week, as the hon. Gentleman and other hon. equally clear about the importance of a free press and Members will be aware, seems to bring fresh reports of media that can challenge the Government and others. questionable, and possibly illegal, activities at some To pick up one of the themes in the speech of my newspapers, and witnesses’ statements at Leveson have hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter further stoked the fires. That was why the Prime Minister Bottomley), more than a third of the world’s people live announced an inquiry into phone hacking on 13 July in countries where there is no press freedom, according last year, following revelations that the News of the to Reporters Without Borders. In all the criticism we World may have routinely paid private investigators to have seen of the press in the past year, it is easy to forget hack into the voicemail messages of celebrities and just how fortunate we are to live in a country where the other people involved in high-profile news stories. I media are not subjected to Government regulation and certainly welcome the support for the Leveson inquiry where the right to freedom of speech means that people from the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen can voice views that may be critical of, or offensive to, Goodman), who is the spokesman for the official others. That independence from state intervention is Opposition. fundamental to our democratic way of life. We all need to know what journalists and their agents Just a week after war reporter Marie Colvin was were up to hacking into phone messages. We also need killed in Syria, it is worth reminding the House and to know what the police knew when, what they did ourselves that, although she was American, many journalists about it and how we might learn lessons for the future. working in Britain also deserve our respect and thanks However, it is worth noting, as we have been reminded for the work they do. this week, that the inquiry is not purely about phone hacking. It will also look into allegations that the Sir Peter Bottomley: May I say through the Minister Metropolitan Police Service’s earlier inquiries, although that any Member who gets a chance to go to the they resulted in two convictions, were not sufficiently Amnesty media awards, which are held each year, will thorough. That raised questions about the relationship come away with the most incredible regard for the between senior Metropolitan Police Service officers and courage and suffering of many journalists in the countries News International. they cover? The ongoing police investigations, which are being led by Deputy Assistant Commissioner Sue Akers of Mr Vaizey: My hon. Friend makes a valid point, and the Metropolitan police, are making good progress, and I am sure those listening to the debate will take note of they are thorough and well resourced. As all hon. those awards and attend them or look at what is produced. Members will agree, we must let those investigations, With press freedom comes responsibility, however, which may lead to criminal charges, run their course. and we have consistently heard reports that certain About 120 members of staff are working on Operation parts of the press have not lived up to their responsibilities. Weeting, which, as hon. Members will recall, is focused It will be for Lord Leveson’s inquiry to make specific on phone hacking. Operation Elvedon is the investigation recommendations on future regulation. To answer the into allegations of corrupt payments to police by journalists, point made by the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland, 39WH Media Regulation28 FEBRUARY 2012 Media Regulation 40WH

[Mr Vaizey] that behaviour. That part of the inquiry is necessarily longer because of the difficulties of operating around we will not prejudge what those recommendations might live criminal investigations, as the hon. Member for be. We are satisfied that, with this inquiry, we are Rhondda mentioned. putting in place the means of establishing the correct The first part of the inquiry is made up of four regulatory regime. modules. Module 1 dealt with the press and the public, and the hon. Gentleman will have seen the extensive Chris Bryant: If that is true, why did the Minister say media coverage of the witness hearings at the royal on “Question Time” that the answer had to be self- courts of justice. The evidence given has helped to raise regulation? the inquiry’s profile, and the continued coverage serves only to highlight the intense importance the public Mr Vaizey: The hon. Gentleman is referring to the attach to the regulation of the press and to the inquiry’s fact that my remark, albeit in shorthand, echoed the outcome. Secretary of State. My right hon. Friend said: Hon. Members may have noticed that the hearings “I don’t know whether legislation would form part of the for module 2, which focuses on the press and the police, solution or not…I would love the industry to come to me with their proposed solution, but what I would say to them is that started yesterday. They will be followed by module 3, whatever you propose must have the confidence of the public, which focuses on the press and politicians. It is obvious, because the public are not happy with what’s been going on.” therefore, that media interest will continue right up We all agree that we do not want statutory regulation of until Lord Justice Leveson reports and that there is still the content of the press. We want to hear what proposals a huge amount of evidence to be gathered and considered. the press have for regulation, and we have not ruled out Let me therefore repeat—I have said this almost ad statutory backing for a regulatory system. nauseam—that it is important to wait for Lord Justice Leveson’s report. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State recently noted in the same interview, there is more agreement There is, however, another opportunity to look at than expected on the tougher form of newspaper regulation these issues. We will publish a Green Paper focusing, if I that will emerge in the light of the phone hacking can put this in shorthand, on how to bring the scandal. It is no secret that we would like a regime for Communications Act 2003 up to date. We hope the regulating the press that is independent, but which has Green Paper will lead to a White Paper and then to a credible sanctions to deal with transgressors, to pick up communications Bill. I say that in all sincerity because on the points made by the hon. Member for Bishop of the work the hon. Member for Rhondda has done on Auckland. It must also cover all the press. the issue and the position he has taken. Our preference is that there should be no direct The hon. Gentleman raised a number of issues this statutory regulation of press content and that the press morning, and I hope that he does not feel I am being should be able to come forward with a new regime that too much of a politician when I say it would be wrong is credible to the public. The press have already begun for me to give a view on each of his points about a small that process with the appointment of a new chair of the claims court or amendments to interception rules, or, Press Complaints Commission—Lord Hunt. We wish indeed, his concerns about the proposed parliamentary him well in tackling the challenges he and the industry privilege Bill, which is still very much in the drafting face. However, we have ruled nothing out at this stage, stage, the fit and proper person test or the need to and we are certainly not in the business of pre-empting amend the Communications Act 2003. I hope that he Lord Justice Leveson’s report. will, perhaps in a personal capacity, submit evidence to the Green Paper. Helen Goodman: I am pleased the Minister has said he does not intend to prejudge Lord Leveson’s inquiry, Chris Bryant: I am grateful to the Minister for giving and that is helpful, but does he have any thoughts about way, but I think he is being a bit too much of a the ideas put forward by Lord Hunt? politician, and not even a very good one, because his boss has already said that he will look at the idea of a Mr Vaizey: I hear what Lord Hunt has to say, and my small claims court; so I have got further with his boss understanding is that he wants everyone to be members than I have with him. The draft parliamentary privilege of the new body. He wants credible sanctions, he wants Bill is meant to be published in the next few weeks. I the body to be independent of the Government and the think the Minister could get a bit more up to speed with industry, and he wants the industry to come forward what is going on in the rest of the Department. with credible proposals. As I say, however, it would be wrong for me to comment on the specific elements he is Mr Vaizey: It is sad that our relationship has reached putting forward for debate ahead of the Leveson inquiry’s this stage, when the hon. Gentleman deliberately findings. mischaracterises what I have said. If he is honest he will Let me talk a little about the Leveson process before I say that the Secretary of State has not reached a conclusion make the other point I was about to make. The inquiry on whether the small claims court is the right way will have two parts. As everyone knows, the first part forward. My right hon. Friend said merely that it is an looks at media ethics and will make recommendations idea that should be considered, which is exactly what I for a regulatory regime to ensure we have ethical media. said about two minutes ago: the hon. Gentleman put It is important to note that that part of the inquiry will forward some interesting ideas and I would welcome it report in October 2012. The second part will look at the if he—I am treating him with a lot more respect than he extent of illegal behaviour by News International and is giving me—would put those ideas into the Green other media organisations and at the police inquiry into Paper. Is that all right? 41WH Media Regulation28 FEBRUARY 2012 Media Regulation 42WH

I am sorry, Ms Osborne; I got slightly carried away, any further pressure on his Ministry of Justice colleagues but it is a bit unfair when all we are saying is that the to amend the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of arguments being put across are perfectly valid and Offenders Bill. deserve consideration in a process that is being undertaken by the Leveson inquiry and the Green Paper. Mr Vaizey: It is worth making the point that the conditional fee arrangements could be interpreted as a Helen Goodman: I am grateful to the Minister, who is restriction on press freedom. I hear what the hon. Lady being generous with his time. We were expecting the has said about the Opposition’s case for a clear exemption Green Paper to be published before the end of January, in the relevant areas; but there is certainly an argument and it is now almost March. Does he have any idea that conditional fee arrangements put the press under about the timetable for the process, for which he is in undue pressure. I hear what the hon. Member for Rhondda fact responsible? [Interruption.] says about the sums of money involved, but there is evidence that newspapers might settle cases that they Mr Vaizey: My hon. Friend the Member for Worthing would otherwise be prepared to fight, on the basis of West (Sir Peter Bottomley), who is an experienced politician, the legal costs that they are likely to rack up against a says that the conventional answer is “Soon”. As a litigant. I will happily write to the hon. Lady and the Minister I have come up with a new conventional hon. Member for Rhondda, setting out the position on answer to any question like that, which is “in the that issue. spring”, because I have discovered that in Whitehall the spring season runs from February to November. Therefore, Chris Bryant: Some newspapers have advanced the to say that something will be published in the spring argument that under the proposals they would not write covers all the bases. However, to be more accurate, and things that they would otherwise write; but if the result feeling the vibes of pressure about my performance is that they choose not to write things that infringe coming from the hon. Member for Rhondda, I can say people’s privacy or libel them, that is a good thing, not a that the timing has changed from spring to imminent, bad thing. If there is a chilling effect that means that which means that we hope to publish the Green Paper they do not write lies, that is good, not bad. It is difficult in the next few weeks. We wanted to tighten up a enough, even if conditional fee agreements are allowed number of issues, not related to what we are discussing for privacy and libel cases, for ordinary people to gain today, but on a wholly separate matter. access to lawyers. They just do not know how to go through the process. However, it will be infinitely more Helen Goodman: We know about that. difficult, or almost impossible, for someone from, say, Soham to get justice, as it would be for someone involved in any of the big criminal investigations where the Mr Vaizey: That is the reason for the delay, and I victims of crime have ended up in the newspapers gather that the hon. Lady knows about it. unnecessarily and incorrectly, with their privacy traduced. Chris Bryant: I hope that the Minister will not get rose— wound up—it seems awfully easy to wind him up. Is it Mr Vaizey possible that some of the issues that we have been discussing will not be addressed at all in the Green Sir Peter Bottomley: May I add to that intervention, Paper, and there may just be a great big hole? Is that the and contradict it? The Joint Committee on the Draft Government’s intention—a kind of hole, labelled “Please Defamation Bill has produced a report, to which we insert Leveson here”? Alternatively will there be an expect the Government to respond at some stage; perhaps exploratory consultation as part of the Green Paper? it is as much for the Ministry of Justice as it is for the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. Anyone Mr Vaizey: The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point, who has listened to the editors of Nature or the British which is that the document is a Green Paper, not a Medical Journal, or the campaign “Sense about Science” White Paper. It is not a precursor to the legislation. The or who has heard the saga of Simon Singh or Dr Peter Green Paper is a consultation document, and it will Wilmshurst, would say that what matters to the public raise a number of issues. It will, in some areas, give a interest is to get more information out, especially if it clear view of the Government’s direction of travel, and challenges what other people are saying, or if what is in others it will simply raise an issue and invite comments. claimed is incontrovertible. However, it is important to emphasise that a Green Paper is a precursor to a White Paper and is therefore Mr Vaizey rose— not necessarily so detailed. It is designed to invite comment, ideas, thoughts and proposals. In that sense it Zac Goldsmith: I should like to take up both those is much more open minded, and is effectively a call for last two points, although that was not originally why I further evidence. wanted to intervene. The hon. Member for Rhondda has raised a number I edited The Ecologist for about 10 years. We were of points during the debate, which although its title is threatened every month with litigation. Were it not for “Media Regulation”focused on the issue that has exercised the fact that I personally had deep pockets and could us for the past few months: the future of press regulation. defend the magazine in a way an ordinary editor or owner could not, the magazine would have been thrown Helen Goodman: I intuit that the Minister may be against the rocks, so I take my hon. Friend’s point; but about to sit down. Before he does I want to remind him that is entirely different from the point that the hon. of another issue raised in the debate: whether he has put Member for Rhondda was making. 43WH Media Regulation28 FEBRUARY 2012 Media Regulation 44WH

[Zac Goldsmith] My hon. Friend said that my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West was making a separate point, but There is a clear public interest in the issues that what that illustrates is the fact that there are arguments Nature, for example, wanted to explore. There is no on both sides—whether that in protecting the interests public interest in the kind of industrial-scale but nevertheless of a litigant, we are restricting press freedom, or whether schoolyard bullying that people such as Charlotte Church we are protecting the interests of a litigant against the faced, and which served no public interest. A 16-year-old press. Inadvertently perhaps, he made an interesting girl was mercilessly torn apart by newspapers, and I do point. It is not always the big media organisations to not believe any decent person in this country would which we turn to expose corruption or wrongdoing. defend what the newspapers did to her. The fact that she Often it is small media magazines or publications, which is a celebrity is neither here nor there. What they did do not have large-scale resources to defend themselves was inhuman, and there is no public interest defence. against litigation, that can be silenced when the balance I challenge any of the newspapers following the debate is tipped the other way. The hon. Member for Rhondda to come up with one example of a genuine public made a passionate point about conditional fees, and interest story that has not been published as a result of clearly he will want those points taken on board and the so-called chilling effect of the Leveson inquiry. I ask responded to fully in the light of the legislation that is the Minister to reassure people who are afraid of a currently being considered. As has been said time and chilling effect resulting from it—several people have again, it is interesting that it is the Ministry of Justice made that point—by saying that none of the ideas that is taking forward those important pieces of legislation, being put forward in response to the crisis that we face which are nevertheless having an impact on this debate. would jeopardise a free press. Sir Peter Bottomley: I thank my hon. Friend for Index on Censorship, which has campaigned harder giving way. I think that he will remind us to keep in than anyone else for the kind of reforms that my hon. mind that there are issues of libel or defamation and of Friend the Member for Worthing West wants, has teamed privacy. There are also issues relating to people who are up with Hacked Off, which focuses entirely on the kind not journalists who may want to speak at some professional of abuse we have been discussing. The fact that they conference where reports of what they have said can have joined forces to come up with a solution shows occasionally and wrongly suffer challenge in the court that the proposed solutions are not designed to jeopardise on the grounds of privacy, but more often of defamation. a proper free press. That needs protecting. In terms of the media responsibility, I ask the Minister to make that point and to add, I hope that my hon. Friend and his Department will finally, that even if a crazy idea were put forward—if engage with the Ministry of Justice to ensure that such Leveson lost his head and came up with a lunatic idea, points are not forgotten. which is highly unlikely—the ideas are just recommendations, and Parliament will take a view. Mr Vaizey: Certainly, we engage with the Ministry of There is no reason at all for anyone to fear the Leveson Justice at length on many of these issues. Going back to process. I hope that the Minister will echo those sentiments the speech of the hon. Member for Rhondda, his thesis and make that very clear. was that the regulatory regime failed across the board, whether it be the directors of the company, the Press Sandra Osborne (in the Chair): Order. Could we have Complaints Commission, the Metropolitan police, the short interventions, please? courts or Parliament. However, it is also worth remembering that where there was wrongdoing, there were mechanisms Mr Vaizey rose— to stop it, such as a proper criminal investigation or a criminal prosecution. Nevertheless, we have quite rightly set up an independent inquiry into the future of press Helen Goodman: I just want to comment on the regulation. It seems that there is general agreement that intervention made by the hon. Member for Worthing whatever recommendations emerge from that, we need West. There are many things in the draft defamation a system of press regulation that is independent both of Bill that will free the press, which the Opposition support. Government and of newspapers. However, the Joint Committee report makes the point that the Jackson proposals should have been introduced Chris Bryant: The Minister correctly characterised rather than the things in the Government’s Legal Aid, my argument, but there is one other vital element to it Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill. that Leveson is probably not considering, which is ownership. Part of my argument is that it was actually Sandra Osborne (in the Chair): Minister? the whole pattern of owning BSkyB and 40% of the newspapers that was the problem. It was what led to the Mr Vaizey: I hesitated for a moment, Ms Osborne, in sense of hubris about how News International and case anyone wanted to make a further intervention. News Corp owned the Metropolitan police, the British Perhaps members of the audience might wish to participate Government, Parliament and politicians and could do in this debate, which is, funnily enough, beginning to what they wanted. resemble “Question Time”. I was glad not to raise a point of order with you, Ms Osborne, during the Mr Vaizey: I hear what the hon. Gentleman says. He intervention of my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond has obviously raised the issue of the fit and proper test Park (Zac Goldsmith). Although it was a lengthy and it is frequently referred to in this context. As he intervention, it was full of passion. He is another Member knows, Ofcom, an independent regulator for which I of the House who has taken a great interest in recent have the highest regard, has an ongoing duty to ensure activities. that anyone who owns a broadcasting licence is, and 45WH Media Regulation 28 FEBRUARY 2012 46WH remains, a fit and proper person. It is frequently suggested Energy Suppliers and Prices by the hon. Gentleman and others that the revelations at News International mean that the owner of News Corporation is not a fit and proper person and hence 12.30 pm BSkyB is not fit and proper to continue to hold its broadcast licences. I again emphasise that the regulation Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): It is a is independent of Government and is a matter for great pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Osborne. Ofcom. I understand that Ofcom has contacted the As co-chair of the all-party group on fuel poverty and relevant authorities and asked to be kept informed of as Britain’s first Green MP, I am very happy to have any information that might assist it in assessing whether secured this debate on a cause that is very dear to my BSkyB is, and remains, fit and proper to continue to heart: how do we help the poorest in our society and hold its broadcast licences. deliver social and environmental justice at the same In the last five minutes, I wish to raise the issue of time? technology, which has not come up so far in this debate. The balmy weather of recent days cannot mask the It is worth looking at other systems of regulation. We fact that our newspapers have been filled with chilling now have the Authority for Television on Demand, stories of yet more excessive profiteering by Britain’s which regulates broadcast-style services over the internet. big six energy companies, coupled with stories of big It is interesting to see how that system of co-regulation pay awards for the companies’ top executives. Last year, is working; we have already had references to self-regulation, EDF’s UK profits were up by 8.5%, on the back of a independent regulation and Government regulation. It 15% rise in bills; just last week, Centrica reported will be interesting to see whether something emerges overall profits of £2.4 billion; and Scottish Power has from Leveson and from our Green Paper about how to reported profits of just under £1 billion. join up those different elements of regulation. Newspapers I have been inundated, as I am sure many other hon. on the web do not currently fall under the regime of Members have been, with letters and e-mails from ATVOD because they are not pursuing broadcast-like constituents complaining about their energy bills and services. That is an interesting matter for genuine debate expressing their fears that they will be unable to afford about the future of press regulation. to stay warm. Although a few energy executives are We have had an entertaining and interesting debate. wondering what to do with their gigantic profits, the The hon. Member for Rhondda has put his case with stark reality for many Britons in the difficult economic the clarity and force for which he has become renowned circumstances that we are currently in is that they are in the House. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the wondering how they will pay for this winter’s gas and Member for Worthing West for reminding the House electricity bills. Indeed, it is estimated that more than about the importance of press freedom not just in this 5.5 million households in the UK are now facing fuel country but around the world where perhaps more poverty, leading to an estimated 3,000 premature winter oppressive regimes may exist. I am grateful for the deaths. Average annual household bills for gas and support from the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland electricity increased from around £600 in 2004 to around for the Leveson inquiry and for her pertinent comments £1,200 in 2011, and uSwitch has predicted that such about the position of the official Opposition. The common bills could rise to a massive £3,202 by 2020. position is that we must wait for the Leveson inquiry to Of course it is not just households that are finding reach its conclusions. I hope that people, including hon. energy bills difficult to pay. Small businesses with tight Members with a particular interest in this area, will use overheads are also feeling the pinch from the increasing the opportunity of the Green Paper to put forward their cost of energy. More than 94% of businesses have seen views on the future of media regulation. an increase in energy costs, according to the Forum of Private Business. 12.28 pm The energy regulator has said that although fossil Sitting suspended. fuel price rises—the wholesale price of gas, and so forth—are clearly the driving factor pushing up energy bills, on top of those rises the big six are increasing their margins on our bills. Although some people might argue that those margins have now been reduced slightly, given the gigantic profits that have been reported, it is clear that energy companies could comfortably reduce their prices even further and still make a reasonable profit. At the weekend, the Institute for Public Policy Research, a think-tank, released a report that found that as many as 5.6 million people are probably being overcharged because of pricing policies by the big companies. The IPPR believes that such overcharging prevents new companies from gaining a foothold in the market. Clearly, something is going wrong, and it is about time that we, as elected representatives, did more about it. That is why a number of organisations, such as Compass, which launched the new “End the big six energy fix” campaign a few weeks ago, Friends of the Earth and The Independent newspaper, alongside myself 47WH Energy Suppliers and Prices28 FEBRUARY 2012 Energy Suppliers and Prices 48WH

[Caroline Lucas] The Heddon-on-the-Wall WI is being harangued by npower to pay more than £5,000 in back entitlements of and many colleagues from all parties in the House, have power, dating from 2006. In other words, the company been campaigning for fair energy prices, greater energy got the bill for the WI wrong, and demanding that efficiency measures and a better deal for consumers. money now will effectively put the local WI village hall We believe that it is time to tackle the predatory out of business; it would have to go into administration. behaviour of the energy companies. By overcharging Npower has not answered my letter on this subject, their customers, who include the most vulnerable people which I will also raise with the Minister. Is this story not in society, those companies are driving people into fuel a good example of the sort of haranguing power of the poverty. In addition, they are not fully meeting their big companies, which are overpowering individuals and social and environmental responsibilities and obligations, small organisations? whether by investing in insulation and other energy efficiency measures or protecting the poorest and most Caroline Lucas: I thank the hon. Gentleman very vulnerable from the impacts of bill rises. That is why we much for that intervention, because that example clearly are calling on the Government to stand up to the demonstrates the kind of power that the energy companies powerful vested interests of the big six energy companies can wield. The implications of the story that he has just and to act to end the energy rip-off. told are absolutely outrageous, so I hope the Minister I will set out three simple steps that could help to will take on board that kind of story. As the chief tackle this problem effectively. First, the Government executive of Ofgem concluded in October 2011, and I could respond to the excessive profiteering of the big six hope the Minister agrees: energy suppliers by imposing a levy similar to the one “We do not have a fully competitive market.” imposed in the past on the North sea oil companies and That was the phrase that Ofgem’s chief executive used. the big banks. Such windfall taxation was used by the Another option would be for the Government—working Conservative Government back in 1981 to claw back in collaboration with Ofgem—to legislate for new price- the excessive profits of the high street banks and in 1997 capping powers, potentially based on a new mechanism. by the Labour Government in relation to the privatised Any price capping could be linked to the wholesale utilities. price of energy, to make energy costs fairer. It would be In 2012, nearly two decades after privatisation of the a kind of energy price escalator. energy sector and despite the efforts of the regulator— Ofcom, the telecoms regulator, has made clear its Ofgem—to create a fully competitive market, the big six intention to cap the cost of BT line rental charges, in still control more than 99% of the retail market. Although response to BT’s over-dominance of the land-line rental we may not have a state-owned monopoly any longer, market. Why not apply the same logic and principle to what we now have is an out-of-control private oligopoly the energy market? Perhaps we could suggest that Ofgem that urgently needs to be reined in and better regulated. pick up the phone and call Ofcom to ask for advice; While the energy sector remains an oligopoly, it is after all, we are always told that “It’s good to talk.” quite legitimate that the big six are made to pay a Thirdly, the Government should now launch an premium for their privileged market position. Indeed, independent public inquiry into the big six energy a levy would be one way to address what is essentially a companies. In much the same way that we have had an market failure. The revenues raised by such a levy independent commission on banking, led by Sir John should be ring-fenced to kick-start and support a mass Vickers, and an ongoing investigation into the media, programme of home insulation and energy efficiency led by Lord Leveson, we urgently need a public inquiry measures, starting with the homes of the fuel-poor. into the energy industry, to get to the root causes of the That programme could be part of a genuine green new problems. To be crystal-clear, I must point out that I am deal and it could help to create thousands of new skilled not calling for a Competition Commission inquiry. jobs in the process. There would be a win-win situation: Instead, we need an independent public inquiry with a the programme would help the Government to meet its broader remit than just to consider prices and competition, commitment to eliminate fuel poverty by 2016; it would because more fundamental issues are at work here. create many new jobs; and it would help to meet emission reduction targets. So a levy on energy companies is my Those fundamental issues include trust. It seems first demand today. clear to me, from talking to the constituents whom I My second demand is that, to prevent energy companies meet when I go around my constituency, that many from passing the cost of any levy on to consumers and people do not trust the energy companies. Therefore, it to make energy prices fairer, I want the Government to would be in the interests of the energy suppliers themselves give the regulator more powers to cap prices and— to ensure that these issues are fully addressed and that crucially—to mandate Ofgem to actually use those powers. all the facts, figures and arguments are discussed in the A number of options are available. The regulator already light of day. has the power to cap prices if it chooses to do so—it has threatened to use that power if the energy companies do David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): I am listening not reduce prices—but it is simply no good to make carefully to the hon. Lady’s argument that there is a empty threats. The regulator should have the confidence market failure in the energy sector. If there is a market to intervene actively and to use its capping powers in failure and therefore a de facto cartel is operating, that the face of consistent overcharging by companies and would be a very serious issue that would need to be persistent market failure. fixed. However, what I genuinely do not understand— perhaps she can help me with this point—is why EU Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): May I give an example figures from November last year showed that UK gas of such overcharging from the Heddon-on-the-Wall prices for the consumer were 25% lower than those in women’s institute, which is in my constituency of Hexham? Italy, France and Germany. Indeed, UK gas prices are 49WH Energy Suppliers and Prices28 FEBRUARY 2012 Energy Suppliers and Prices 50WH the 21st lowest of the 27 countries in the EU. Those have individuals as co-generators of their own energy, statistics do not imply that a cartel is operating in our rather than simply sitting back as consumers. I want to country; alternatively, they show that, if a cartel is let the Minister know that, should he be minded to go operating here, it is not operating very well. down this route, he would have enormous support from the public. Caroline Lucas: I cannot help the hon. Gentleman directly on the figures that he has just quoted. The A YouGov poll commissioned by Compass and Friends bigger issue is the amount of power that those players of the Earth found that 71% of voters support a levy on have in our markets. My constituents in Brighton do the profits on the big six; 77% support the money raised not much care about the price of fuel in Italy, but they from such a levy being ring-fenced for home insulation care passionately about the price of their own fuel here and energy efficiency, particularly to remove people at home. It looks as though the big six are coming from fuel poverty; and an overwhelming 86% of voters together. A public inquiry would find out whether any support an independent public inquiry. collusion is going on. Even if there is no collusion, it is I am also encouraged that 70% of people support a certainly the case that excess profits are being made off move away from fossil fuel to renewables. That indicates the backs of constituents who are struggling with very strongly that we need to kick-start a national debate on high fuel prices. When they are urged to swap tariffs, the energy that not only focuses on price and competition, whole process is so deeply complicated that it is not but more fundamentally on the kind of energy industry surprising that, essentially, they are mis-sold the energy that we want for the future, recognising that energy that they need. provision should be viewed not merely as a market commodity, but as a public service that we all rely on. David Mowat: I completely agree that we need transparent energy prices, and I hope that the Minister will talk If we do not use less energy or successfully make the about how we will simplify the tariff structure and all transition to renewable energy, bills will keep going up, that goes with it. However, my point is the same. I because the cost of gas is projected to rise, even allowing understand that the hon. Lady’s constituents do not for highly controversial shale gas extraction as well. We care about energy prices in Italy, France, Germany or need to work hard to protect the vulnerable as much as Sweden. My point is that if there is a cartel operating, it possible from those price rises and ensure that the is surprising that our gas prices are so much cheaper effects are not exacerbated by the greed of the energy than in those countries. I will leave it at that. companies. Instead, we need an energy industry that helps to deliver social and environmental progress, lifts Caroline Lucas: There are a whole set of complex people out of poverty and helps to bring about a good reasons why energy markets are different in various society. member states. If everything is completely clean and above board, with no excess profits being made, that On the point made by the hon. Member for Liverpool, can be examined in a public inquiry. That is exactly why Wavertree (Luciana Berger), I am interested in drawing we need a public inquiry. I can assure the hon. Gentleman, on best practice from countries such as Germany, where as I am sure that he knows from his own constituents, community ownership of the grid has played a pivotal that that is not the perception of the vast majority of role in allowing renewables and energy efficiency, for ordinary people who are faced on the one hand with example, to flourish—unlike here in Britain, where the rising energy bills and on the other hand with stories in grid is privately owned and controlled. Many citizens in the newspapers about rising energy company profits. Germany see themselves as owners and generators of their energy, not simply as consumers. That is the kind Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): Does of shift that I want to encourage, so we need to challenge the hon. Lady agree that, irrespective of what is happening the unacceptable power exerted by some of our big in other countries, the truth is that many ordinary energy companies. working families and small businesses are finding it Local authorities potentially have a major role to hard to survive, and the increase in energy costs is play here, too, in relation to both insulation and to certainly putting some under? local, decentralised energy supply. The more we make it Caroline Lucas: I certainly agree with that. That is easy for communities and councils to generate their much of the motivation for securing the debate this own, the less we rely on the big six. The more we cut morning. energy waste and get off gas, the better protected we are in relation to bills. Of course, we urgently need to tackle Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): the complex domestic rates and charging system that I thank the hon. Lady for giving way in a short debate. I has been the subject of so many debates and motions in know that she shares my concern that the average the House and that serves time and again to disadvantage household now spends £1,345 on its dual fuel bill and consumers, especially those who use the least energy. that profits last year were on average £125 per household, which is why this issue urgently needs attention. I listened Guy Opperman: The hon. Lady referred to the big six carefully to what she said about competition. Does she main energy companies. Does she agree and acknowledge agree that one of the key things that we need to do to that the problem is also off-grid in terms of liquefied reform the energy market is to encourage and ensure petroleum gas and heating oil? Millions of consumers that the big six pool their energy, so that we can increase up and down the country are affected and their position competition and allow more entrants into the market? is just as bad. Caroline Lucas: I absolutely agree with the hon. Lady. If I speak a bit faster, I will make that point shortly. We Caroline Lucas: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that need more players in the marketplace. That is the way to intervention, because he is exactly right. Indeed, in drive down prices. It is also the way to ensure that we many rural areas, people living in poverty are off-grid 51WH Energy Suppliers and Prices28 FEBRUARY 2012 Energy Suppliers and Prices 52WH

[Caroline Lucas] mostly international investors—the greater the likelihood that we will see energy and electricity being rationed, and therefore completely hostage to whatever the energy because of a lack of investment in new supply and a suppliers choose to charge. They do not have much lack of investment in the other associated areas of option. energy efficiency. The consumer will therefore end up On the complex set of tariffs, we are sometimes urged picking up the tab. to shift tariffs to another supplier or to shift within the I was also disappointed that we did not hear any same energy company if we do not like what we are recognition of the global issues that must be addressed. getting. However, it is difficult to compare tariffs, like We are having this debate at a time when oil and gas with like. It is so difficult to understand what kind of prices are at their highest levels in recent years. The tariff we need to be on that it is not surprising that not increase in wholesale prices is being driven partly by many people take up that opportunity. instability in the middle east and partly by other geopolitical I will bring my remarks to a close, because I want to measures. We therefore cannot divorce the issue of give the Minister time to respond. I will summarise energy prices from what is happening globally. However, three key points. First, will the Government start drawing we can do and are doing a significant amount to assist up plans for a levy on energy companies in time for the consumers in paying their bills. forthcoming budget in March? Secondly, will they instruct the regulator Ofgem to use existing powers to cap Caroline Lucas: Will the Minister give way? prices, or will the Government work with the regulator to introduce new powers in the forthcoming energy Charles Hendry: I will not. I hope that the hon. Lady market reform Bill? If the Minister thinks that that will understand. She has raised many issues, and I want might be too much to ask, my third demand is reasonable: to try to respond to them comprehensively. I am more will the Government commit to an independent public than happy to meet her separately to discuss the ideas inquiry into the big six energy companies? behind her initiative and campaign. Irrespective of whether the Minister agrees with the analysis that I have presented this morning, we can all We are already requiring energy companies to provide agree that this issue is the subject of much controversy help to 2 million of the poorest and most vulnerable in our constituencies. Many people feel that they are households through the warm home discount, at a cost being ripped off by the big six. If that is the case, action of £250 million this year, an increase of 40% over earlier should be taken. Let us look into it with an independent arrangements. Over the next four years, suppliers will public inquiry. Let us learn the lessons so that, once and provide support worth £1.1 billion. Citizens Advice and for all, we can move to a more sustainable and fair Ofgem have received their highest level of funding yet energy system without all the question marks that currently from suppliers for the Energy Best Deal campaign, surround it. which helps vulnerable consumers shop around for the best deal. We have extended the carbon emissions reduction target until the end of the year, which we expect will 12.47 pm benefit 600,000 of the most vulnerable low-income families, including those with elderly people and people with The Minister of State, Department of Energy and disabilities, and suppliers will be investing some £400 million Climate Change (Charles Hendry): It is a pleasure to in heating and insulation measures to help those households. serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Ms Osborne. In addition, the community energy saving programme, I congratulate the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion CESP, is expected to deliver about £350 million in energy (Caroline Lucas) on securing this debate. It is a shame efficiency measures to 90,000 households. that we did not have a longer debate—an hour and a half—because we have had an unusually large number Looking forward, we are introducing the energy company of interventions, which shows the interest that the subject obligation, which will include support to provide affordable attracts. I hope that all hon. Members will understand warmth to low-income vulnerable households through that I want to use the remaining time available to heating and insulation measures. The ECO will provide respond to the debate, rather than take further interventions. £1.3 billion in support each year to householders who cannot achieve significant energy savings without additional The hon. Lady has secured this debate at a time when support, and will have a specific target to provide heating we have started to see some prices coming down. In and insulation to the low-income vulnerable households recent weeks we have seen price reductions, which will at greatest risk of fuel poverty. see around a 2% weighted average decrease in retail prices. Prices on wholesale markets are beginning to We are also spending £110 million through Warm reduce and companies recognise that they can start to Front on heating and insulation to help households take some of the pressure off consumers. We all share make their homes warmer. During the current winter, the hon. Lady’s ambition that consumers should be the winter fuel payment, worth £250 for households supported at a time when they are inevitably extremely with members aged up to 79 and £400 for those with worried about the level of energy prices. members aged 80 and over, will help 12.7 million older I will talk about some of the measures that we are people in 9 million households with their fuel bills. taking to address the issues. First, it is important to As I hope the hon. Lady will understand, significant state that we need a market that operates and functions support is going into measures to mitigate the effects of better. Some of the measures that the hon. Lady has set high energy bills, and particularly to ensure that we do out would make the situation worse. We need to get not just help with this year’s bills but provide support in £200 billion of new investment in our energy infrastructure addressing the issue year on year in future through over the next 10 to 15 years. The more that we make this greater emphasis on energy efficiency, for which she an unattractive place for people to invest—they are called in her comments. 53WH Energy Suppliers and Prices28 FEBRUARY 2012 Energy Suppliers and Prices 54WH

Caroline Lucas: I thank the Minister for his response. The hon. Lady discussed having new entrants into He says that the Government are tackling the problem the market. We are absolutely committed to making by, for example, providing the new ECO, but we know that happen. One measure of the success of our market that the amount of money in the ECO is £1.3 billion reform proposals will be whether we increase liquidity and that by the time we subtract the money being by bringing more companies into play in the market, ring-fenced for hard-to-treat homes, there will be far but we should be clear that six is already an unusually less money left for tackling fuel poverty than came from large number, larger than in any other European country. CERT, CESP and Warm Front. We also know that the Most other European countries have one or two dominant money is being raised by a levy on all householders, players and low levels of switching. Levels of switching which will push more people into fuel poverty, whereas here are three or four times higher than in countries Warm Front and the other programmes were funded by such as Germany, which she held up as a good example. taxpayers’ contributions. In the rest of his remarks, will There are many aspects of our market that create better he address the issue of a public inquiry? I do not think opportunities for consumers, and we must be determined that what he is saying addresses the key point, which is to protect those aspects as we go forward. about profits, not prices. It is essential for Ofgem to monitor the market closely. My concern about the sort of public inquiry that she Charles Hendry: I will of course address those issues, suggested involves the consequences. The companies but it is important to provide the context of what else is looking to invest in Britain are exactly the companies being done. A tremendous amount of help is being with the funding and expertise to invest in renewables, given, more than ever before, to insulate hard-to-heat which she says—and I agree—are important. However, homes and direct support to people to pay their fuel if we hold an inquiry, they will defer, making it much bills. That is part of the overall energy picture, and it is more challenging to get new investment during the two important to take a holistic approach and understand years of that investigation. Our scope for meeting our the issue that way. renewables targets will therefore start to slip away. The approach that she suggests would have consequences, In addition, it is important to highlight the impact and I believe that there are better ways to protect that the green deal will have. Through the green deal, we consumers in the short term rather than the long term, are determined to move this country from being one of as her approach would do. the least energy-efficient in the whole of Europe to Part of our approach is boosting competition. We being one of the most. That is an extraordinary challenge, have already gone a long way to cut red tape for smaller and one that we are determined to address. We recognise suppliers, and have increased from 50,000 to 250,000 that we as Government should be trying to create an the number of customers that companies must have environment in which we can make lasting changes to before being required to participate in environmental our households so that people can reduce their bills and social schemes. We are making it easier for small over time. companies to get a foothold in the market. To come directly to the points raised by the hon. In December, Ofgem published for consultation radical Lady, I think that we all recognise that energy companies proposals to require suppliers to simplify their tariffs need to make a profit and invest in infrastructure for the and billing information so that consumers can compare future. They must also make a return for their shareholders. supplier deals much more easily in order to decide We have considered pricing here and elsewhere carefully. whether they will be better off switching. Currently, As my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South more than 400 different tariffs are available—that is the (David Mowat) said, prices here for both electricity and scenario that we inherited when we came into gas are some of the lowest in Europe. However, that is Government—which inevitably leads to great confusion not the same as having the cheapest bills. Our bills are and makes it much more difficult, as the hon. Lady often higher, because our energy efficiency is less good. said, for consumers to make an informed choice when Again, that reinforces the hon. Lady’s point that we they are looking for the best deal. need to make much more progress on energy efficiency in order to contain those bills. Progress is being made on simplifying the approach. British Gas and SSE have announced that they intend It is also worth considering how suppliers’ profits to simplify their tariff structures; SSE has pledged to here stack up against other countries. Their profitability reduce the number of tariffs that it offers from 68 to just in the United Kingdom is worse than in almost any four. Once we get into a world where people can understand other jurisdiction where they operate. If we want suppliers much more clearly what they are paying for and see to continue to invest the £200 billion necessary, they more effectively how it compares with what other companies must see the UK as a good economic area in which to are offering, consumers will be in a much better position invest. The more measures we put in place to make ours to exercise choice. The big six still cover about 99% of an unattractive investment regime, the worse we will the domestic retail market, so it is important to have make things in the longer term for consumers in this additional suppliers and players in the retail sector to country. ensure that we get the best deal for consumers. I am This is not a case in which one must be on the side pleased to see that significant work is happening. either of consumers or of industry. In the longer term, I also welcome the move towards collective switching, we can only be on the side of the consumer by creating an issue taken up by Which? in the past few weeks, an environment in which businesses want to invest. which brings together a range of consumers to give Through our market reforms and other measures, we them much more confidence and to buy on their behalf. are trying to make the UK an attractive jurisdiction and There is more liquidity, more companies are coming ensure that the regulator, Ofgem, takes strong action to into the market and the market will operate better. A prevent excess profiteering in the sector. tougher regulator is taking action to ensure that comparison 55WH Energy Suppliers and Prices 28 FEBRUARY 2012 56WH

[Charles Hendry] Jam Jar Bank Accounts between companies is easier and that profitability is not 1pm excessive. Above all, we are creating a market in which businesses will be keen to invest, in order to ensure, in Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con): It is a the most affordable way, security of supply and low great pleasure to see you in the Chair this afternoon, carbon in the longer term. Ms Osborne. For most of us, using a current account is as natural and normal a part of modern life as indoor plumbing, but it was not always so. Many hon. Members will remember their parents coming home with weekly wages in cash, in an envelope with little holes in it so people could count the money when it was given to them. On arrival at home, the cash would be divided into amounts for the rent, the bills, housekeeping and, hopefully, savings for an unexpected bill, school uniforms or Christmas. The sub-divided amounts would typically be kept in separate boxes, tins or jam jars, from which this debate takes its title. Most households have changed a lot since then, and there are many advantages to that evolution. For most jobs now, people need a bank account to accept their salaries or wages, and people also need an account to pay the rent or the mortgage. People’s money is also safer in a bank than on the kitchen windowsill. As payments through direct debits and standing orders cost less for financial institutions to process, bank accounts give people access to better deals. A bank account also becomes a gateway to other financial services. Much progress has been made over the last number of years on that front. The number of people without a transactional bank account, including a basic bank account, fell by about a half between 2003 and 2010 to just 1.5 million households. As I said, there are many advantages to the transition, but there are also some drawbacks. For a start, there is loss of control, particularly with things such as direct debits. Although people set them up, they happen subsequently without people actively having to do anything.

Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con): My hon. Friend has secured a fantastic debate. Our extensive research in my all-party group on financial education for young people highlighted loss of control as a particular problem. Some 91% of people who got into financial difficulty did so because they kind of lost control, and my hon. Friend has highlighted exactly why that is happening.

Damian Hinds: My hon. Friend goes right to the heart of the matter. There can also be a feeling of being rather flush on payday and a danger of people not making provision for unexpected, or sometimes even expected and known, subsequent liabilities. Although most of us enjoy free in-credit banking, nothing in life is free; there is a cost to operating bank accounts. The point made by my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) also goes to the heart of that issue. The provision of free banking relies on people making mistakes and incurring penalty charges. Research for the financial inclusion taskforce has shown that low-income families that move to have a bank account in order to save money through direct debits and so on found that those savings were entirely wiped out by penalty charges, which averaged £140 in the first year. That combination of factors, as my hon. Friend 57WH Jam Jar Bank Accounts28 FEBRUARY 2012 Jam Jar Bank Accounts 58WH says, can lead to people tripping into debt, which can to a desktop personal computer, or, for those who do then spiral. I mentioned people who do not have a not have that, through smart phones, mobile phones transactional bank account, but many choose to manage and auto-voice recognition. However, there is a cadre of in cash even if they have a bank account. people for whom that is less appropriate. The third question on product design is how to Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): My hon. Friend market such accounts, by whom and to whom. talked about people tripping into debt. He will also find Why would we want a great increase in jam jar that people trip into ill health, particularly mental ill banking? First, it would reduce the extent to which health. I work with Advocacy in Wirral, and one of the people trip into debt. Secondly, the poorest would pay main issues that it deals with is the sheer practicalities less, both directly, through lower bank charges; and of life and not being able to pay bills, leading to a indirectly, because service providers would have a lower deterioration of mental health. average cost of collection. Therefore, the poverty premium, as highlighted by Save the Children and others, would Damian Hinds: My hon. Friend’s point is, as ever, apt be reduced. Thirdly, and just as importantly, it would and to the point. She could also have mentioned the stimulate savings through a sort of a nudge. One of stress that debt and trying to manage one’s finances can someone’s jam jars would automatically be a savings bring to families, which is one of the key factors in account, and they would have to say yes or no to put a family breakdown. few pounds away every week or month. We all know To address those points—at least in part—and a few what a difference that makes; it can be quite other points, we have jam jar accounts. They mimic the transformational to have savings and assets. jam jars on the windowsill; that is the whole point of such accounts. Louise Savell of Social Finance has Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): As my hon. Friend identified three core features. First, when someone’s knows, I am leading a campaign for the establishment wages come in, the money is automatically distributed of community-based local banks. Would one of the among different pots within the bank account—for best custodians for jam jar accounts not be a community- rent, household bills, spending money, savings and so based local bank? Such banks allow people to save on. Secondly, the person would receive a low balance locally with a local bank manager, with whom there can alert by text, if there is a danger of that person failing to be a close, personal relationship. That would increase meet one of their bills from the bills account. Thirdly, if savings and the benefits of a jam jar account. the person does not act on that for whatever reason, there would be an auto-sweep from savings into the Damian Hinds: My hon. Friend makes a fine point, bill-paying account in order to avoid penalty charges or and I commend him on his leadership in the local failing to make the payment. banking movement. I will say a few things about credit There are a number of questions about product design, unions, which I think share some characteristics. which can be done in different ways. One big debate is I have talked about the “Why?” of jam jar accounts, about budgeting support, which could accompany the and it is also fair to ask, “Why now?” There are three accounts. Comprehensive budgeting support—helping good reasons why the issue is particularly relevant at the people to decide how much goes into each pot and how moment. First, the Government and Members on both and when to redistribute—would be a great bonus, but sides of the House are focusing, rightly, on the cost of that is quite costly. The issue should have a separate living. We discussed heating bills in the preceding debate, debate, because we can have a lot of the benefits from and there are active debates about rail fares and petrol jam jar accounts without fully comprehensive budgeting and diesel costs. Bank charges are also a significant part support, and we can have a lot of great benefits from of the cost of living. The second reason why the debate fully comprehensive budgeting support without jam jar is particularly timely is because of the introduction of accounts. universal credit, the move from fortnightly to monthly A second question about product design is how easy payments, and the move away from direct payments to we make it to raid a savings account. Jam jar accounts landlords. The third reason is the sector modernisation are in many ways a method for one to impose discipline fund of £73 million for credit unions that the Government on oneself. A customer might decide that it would be are supporting. That presents new opportunities for good to impose further discipline and say, “If I want to development in that sector. move money out of the savings account into the spending account, I should have to do something actively.Ultimately, Esther McVey: Of course I greatly welcome—as all of it is my choice because it is my money, but I will make us here do—the universal credit, but does my hon. myself ask for it in writing or by e-mail.” Friend agree that what is being offered protects not only those receiving the credit, but potentially the landlords David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): Does the hon. and other people who are the recipients of bill payments? Gentleman agree that more attention and help need to Those people also need protection. be given to those of a certain age? They could find bank accounts hard to deal with—it is taxing, as he has Damian Hinds: My hon. Friend is right. Of course, suggested—and they like to see what they have and there is a potential benefit for landlords and other manage it in that way. More help is needed for the service providers. There is a line of argument that goes: senior citizens of our country. why not just keep the two-weekly payments and the direct payments to landlords? However, a key objective Damian Hinds: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely of universal credit is to make the receipt of benefit feel correct. There is a generation that is more comfortable more like being in work, which usually means having to with managing such matters online, if they have access cope with monthly payments, not having money paid 59WH Jam Jar Bank Accounts28 FEBRUARY 2012 Jam Jar Bank Accounts 60WH

[Damian Hinds] In any case, that is still a lot of money, so the question of how to pay for it remains. My hon. Friend the direct to a landlord and so on. The use of such accounts Member for Wirral West touched on some of those is a good way of helping people through that, which is a issues a moment ago. There is some reason to believe perfectly legitimate aim, while keeping the key features that people—consumers themselves—would be willing of universal credit. to pay something. In the credit market, if we think We know that Ministers are interested in this area. about how much consumers implicitly are willing to pay Most recently, in answer to a written parliamentary for the convenience and flexibility of home credit over question tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for cheaper sources, there is some evidence that people North Swindon, which was published after I applied for value and would pay for control. Some research suggests the debate, the Minister of State, Department for Work that maybe people would be willing to pay £1 a week—£50 and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Thornbury a year. However, that still seems rather a lot. That could and Yate (Steve Webb), confirmed that the Government possibly be augmented with some other charges for are actively looking at the potential for low-cost budgeting ATM withdrawals and so on. accounts. Some people might say, “Get the banks to pay for it. So why do they not exist already? Well they sort of They’ve done all these bad things, so they should do it.” do, just not on a particularly big scale. Last year, there To be fair to banks, they do quite a lot in the corporate were four providers of jam jar accounts, although three social responsibility sphere already, including with credit of them are not the household names that most of us unions. We could perhaps get them to provide such would recognise. Until now, a key driver for the development accounts on a semi-commercial basis, forgoing their and roll out of such accounts has been debt management normal profit margin. What would not be a good idea is companies wanting to have greater security of payment to suggest that other customers should cross-subsidise schedule, rather than consumer advertising. So although those with jam jar accounts. There are two reasons for they exist, they do not exist at scale. Social Finance that: first, for competition policy reasons and, secondly, estimates that there are only about 150,000 such accounts because it is generally a bad idea in the interest of in the UK. They do not exist through big brand effective markets. institutions—by the way, the exception to that is the As my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West Royal Bank of Scotland. I know that it is not very mentioned, there may be a role for service providers, fashionable these days to say nice things about RBS, but particularly housing associations and utility companies, I commend it for having such an account, which it uses who would benefit from having a more reliable payer. for its most challenging customers. However, that also Particularly for the most risky customers, a housing means that the account is not actively marketed to the association, for example, might even be willing to provide general public. Someone would struggle to walk into an cash support for the costs. Perhaps more generally, one RBS branch and open such an account, unless they are would be looking for softer support in terms of marketing referred on to it. and so on to reach scale. Guy Opperman: Given that RBS will potentially be We are talking about banks and consumers, but is sold or divested by the Government in the longer term, there a role for the Government? There is certainly not a is that something that should be carried through post-sale role for the Government in telling people what sort of and hopefully made part of a community-based bank account they should have. There is also not a role organisation? for the Government in telling banks what should be in their new product development pipeline. However, there Damian Hinds: In the interests of time, I will have to is a real social interest in all these issues, as I outlined leave that question hanging—fascinating though it earlier. If it is a question of bringing together organisations unquestionably is—because I must plough on. that may all have an interest, some of which may not The third important point is that such accounts are know about it yet, in developing this market, perhaps not available at an attractive price—with the exception the Government are best or uniquely placed to do that. of the RBS account. Typically, they cost the consumer In my final minute or so, I have three simple asks of about £150 a year. Why are such accounts not available the Government, to which I would love to hear the at scale through big brand institutions at an attractive Minister’s response. The first ask is to prod the banks price? That is a very good question. Intuitively, such and continue to stress to them the benefit that may be accounts seem like an attractive concept. In fact, many had both to society and potentially to them in developing hon. Members here might reflect that, in our own these products. There may even be a pure commercial personal finances, we mimic how jam jar accounts case to be made for them. After all, I often remark that work. We might have a separate current account for nobody knew until 3M brought it to market that the household bills or a separate credit card that we use for thing that was really holding back their office productivity car payments or something like that. was a little yellow square piece of paper that can be There is an attraction to such an idea, but the key stuck to the wall. Sometimes products just have to get stumbling block is economics. There is no reason to out there before we realise their potential. believe that the banks that do offer such accounts at the The second ask is to consider having a pilot scheme prices I talked about are making above normal profits, in one area, working with a housing association and although at scale the cost should come down. Social one or more utilities. It would then be possible to Finance estimates that it should be possible to provide quantify the benefit that comes from security of payment such accounts at between £5 to £7 a month, which is and collection cost, as well as to assess the beneficial around £60 to £85 a year. The biggest sensitivity to that impact on individuals in terms of their budgeting behaviour, cost is the extent to which call centre human support on the amount of money they save and their propensity to budgeting and so on is provided. start to make savings. 61WH Jam Jar Bank Accounts28 FEBRUARY 2012 Jam Jar Bank Accounts 62WH

My third ask is to work with credit unions. This costs—up to 9 million. The report recommended that Government have been a great supporter of the credit further research be undertaken, followed by a pilot union sector, particularly through the £73 million study to explore the potential benefits of such accounts. modernisation fund. If part of that were to be used to develop a robust, sustainable common banking platform, Certainly, the idea is extremely interesting. While no it would open up all sorts of possibilities, including this one financial product will suit every individual, some one. There would also be the potential to work with the people may find these kinds of budgeting facilities Post Office, which would provide a great new source of useful, and far more useful than the methods that they revenue and business to post offices, which matter so use currently.The Government are committed to promoting much to all of us in our communities and constituencies. a diverse and competitive financial services sector that provides consumers with access to a range of financial We know that financial inclusion, helping people to products such as jam jar accounts, which may form a make the transition into work and helping hard-pressed part of those services, to meet consumer need. families with the cost of living are all things for which Ministers have shown a passion. They are also all things If my hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire where jam jar banking could make a substantial difference. will allow, I will refer briefly to a couple of points raised I hope very much that Ministers will continue to work by my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy with consumer groups, housing associations, utilities, Opperman). Ms Osborne need not worry—I will not banks and credit unions to help to stimulate such accounts veer into the scope of the Royal Bank of Scotland in into becoming an at scale reality. this debate. The Government are committed to providing a diverse and competitive financial services sector, exploring options to expand the roles of credit unions, which have 1.18 pm been mentioned and which have an important role in The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe providing services to communities. I note the other Smith): I thank my hon. Friend the Member for East points that were made about more local banks and Hampshire (Damian Hinds) for securing this debate on housing associations. Hon. Members will be aware of the topic of jam jar accounts and low-income consumers. the current opportunity, under the Big Lottery Fund, It is particularly interesting and timely, given the various for housing associations to take an interest in financial reforms going on in the area, which I hope to explain a capability, which is important and an issue that I am bit about in my remarks. In the absence of my colleague aware of at constituency level. The Financial Services the Financial Secretary to the Treasury who leads on Authority has made improvements to its authorisation these issues, I am very pleased to be responding on process to ensure that it will not act as a barrier to entry behalf of the Government. Indeed, hon. Members may for new local banks, if that is something that the good know that I have taken a long-standing interest in these people of Hexham want. issues in my constituency of Norwich. It is relevant to consider this issue, as my hon. Friend My hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire the Member for East Hampshire has, in the context of made a number of relevant points concerning the potential the introduction of universal credit. The new benefit role that jam jar accounts could play in helping to will simplify the existing complex system of benefits improve financial capability and inclusion, particularly and tax credits, improve work incentives and make it alongside the introduction of universal credit. I should clearer to claimants how the move into work will benefit like to respond to the various points that he made and them. As hon. Members are aware, it will be paid in a take this opportunity to set out briefly some of the single monthly payment, with housing costs paid direct work that the Government are doing in this area, which to the tenant. That will enable low-income households I am sure he and others will welcome. to overcome one of the traps of poverty relating to the Let me begin by dwelling on the progress made to responsibility of managing a budget and the impact date on the issue. Jam jar—or budgeting—accounts are that that can have on other things. The monthly payment a relatively new concept, as my hon. Friend mentioned. of benefits will make it easier for households to take However, they are available in various places. As he has advantage of cheaper tariffs and make access to affordable described, such accounts include various features that credit easier through an increased financially responsible are aimed at helping customers to manage their money record. more easily. At the most basic level, that includes the ability for customers to divide their money between The Government recognise that some claimants need different pots. It may also include, as my hon. Friend additional help to budget, particularly during the said, a function that automatically moves money between transitional period. As my hon. Friend suggests, jam jar accounts and access to support from a trained money accounts could have a role to play in helping many manager who can provide advice or direction if necessary. universal credit claimants to budget, protecting their As hon. Members may know, the Financial Inclusion essential payments and supporting positive money Taskforce commissioned initial research into the viability management behaviours. For that reason, I am pleased of this concept in 2010. It was carried out by Social to confirm that, in addition to working with the advice Finance and was published in June last year. As I think sector to ensure that claimants can access appropriate my hon. Friend is aware, the report surveyed the demand budgeting support services, the Department for Work and provision of jam jar accounts. It noted, as he said, and Pensions is working with a range of banking and that such accounts currently exist but tend to carry a financial product providers, such as banks, buildings monthly account usage fee that can put them out of the societies, credit unions, pre-paid card companies and reach of those on the lowest incomes. The report also others, to explore options for delivering such services, quantified the pool of customers who could benefit and to make financial services more accessible and from such accounts if they were available at lower supportive to low-income households. 63WH Jam Jar Bank Accounts28 FEBRUARY 2012 Jam Jar Bank Accounts 64WH

David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): We have study to look at options for expanding their role. That heard a good idea this afternoon, but high street banks study has reported to Ministers and an announcement cannot, or will not, provide such accounts at a cost-effective on its findings will be made soon. rate. Until that issue is fixed, we are just talking about On the point about how the Government can otherwise an idea or a concept, and it will be very hard for it to be help consumers take responsibility for their finances realised. Will the Government do more to bridge the and make better choices, jam jar accounts may be one gap between what the banks are able or willing to do useful tool, but consumers need access to both financial and what the market is apparently willing to spend? advice and an appropriate range of products. That is why last year the Government launched the Money Advice Service, which promotes understanding of the Miss Smith: I shall, with pleasure, come on to some financial system and helps to raise financial capability of the work that the Government are doing to encourage across the UK. In particular, its financial health check simple financial products, via explaining briefly the next is helpful to some of the citizens referred to by my hon. steps for the DWP and via credit unions. Friend the Member for East Hampshire. Another part of empowering consumers is ensuring From June this year, the Government will run a series that the right products are available. They need to be of housing demonstration projects in which we will pay straightforward, easy to understand and simple to provide housing benefit direct to tenants to test the support consumers with a benchmark with which to compare required to help claimants budget and manage their products, make good decisions and make sense of an rent payments effectively. They will be an opportunity often bewildering marketplace. Earlier this month, the to consider what type of budgeting products—whether Government launched a steering group to design a from the commercial sector or elsewhere—can be used range of simple financial products, made up of to support universal credit claimants in the longer term. representatives from both industry and consumer advocates. The group will report to Ministers in July and has Several hon. Members have mentioned credit unions. announced that it will focus initially on developing They play an important role in offering access to financial simple deposit savings and protection insurance products. services—bank accounts, affordable credit, insurance This is an opportunity for industry to innovate and and savings to name but a few—to people who may not develop a range of simple products, and it comes at a be able to, or may not wish to, access those services time of exciting developments elsewhere in the industry. through mainstream banks or building societies. They Under the various developments that I have outlined work within a local community ethos and often actively today, it is clear that there is an appetite, in the Government seek to help those most in need of support. The recent and in the third and commercial sectors, to find a way legislative reform order brings new and exciting forward. I thank my hon. Friend and other hon. Members opportunities to credit unions. It is now for the sector to for their remarks. I am sure that my colleagues, the respond to those opportunities by seeking new ways to Financial Secretary to the Treasury and the Secretary of reduce their costs, to improve the products and services State for Work and Pensions, will appreciate the insights that it offers and to reach out to new markets to become that they have contributed and will continue to take self-sufficient and sustainable. To support credit unions them into account in the further development of work in making this leap, the DWP has carried out a feasibility in this area. 65WH 28 FEBRUARY 2012 Clean Coal 66WH

Clean Coal Minister a little bit on clean coal, recognising that there are 300 years of energy need beneath our feet? The hon. Lady touched on that in her opening remarks. 1.29 pm Chi Onwurah: I will come to that point. I shall Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): consider it a pleasure to push the Minister, just as the Ms Osborne, it is a pleasure to serve under your hon. Gentleman describes. chairpersonship. I am pleased to see so many of my Coal importation does not raise the same issues as colleagues attending a debate on an important subject: gas importation. In terms of energy security, there is no the economic potential of clean coal. vulnerable single coal pipeline and there is a wider As a child in the 1970s I used the phrase, “taking supplier base and a more competitive market for coal, coals to Newcastle”, to describe the silliest, most useless but transporting millions of tonnes of carbon around activity that could possibly be undertaken. I never the world is hardly green and, more importantly, there really thought about the words behind the phrase, of is in this country the budding technical knowledge to course, except to note that it referred to Newcastle, the exploit coal in a cleaner way than our competitors. city in which I lived and which had been exporting coal The first industrial revolution was fuelled by coal and since the 13th century. The region powered Britain’s we are now having to deal with the consequences in the industrial revolution. Recently, when I visited the port form of climate change. Clean coal, as the hon. Gentleman of Tyne and saw huge ships unloading coal, the full mentioned, is any technology that reduces harmful realisation of the extraordinary change in our relationship emissions from burning coal or avoids the need for to coal was forced on me. Three million tonnes of coal burning coal altogether to generate electricity in a more per year are coming up the Tyne, instead of going down sustainable manner. and out to the wider world. We are now importing Carbon capture and storage and underground coal millions of tonnes of coal per year to Newcastle and the gasification are two areas where the UK has the opportunity same is true for Great Britain, once described as an to become a world-beater in clean energy production, island built on coal. but we cannot wait for ever. Underground coal gasification According to the Library, in 1920 there were 1.25 million is the gasification of a deep coal seam to convert coal to miners in the UK. Today, the UK mining industry a high energy synthetic gas, which goes by the lovely provides just over 6,000 jobs directly and supports a name of syngas. Both the technology and the gas produced similar number in coal power stations and coal are relatively clean, compared to coal-fired generation transportation, but demand for coal has not fallen to and surface mining. the extent that those figures might imply. In addition to the increased productivity of coal miners, we also need Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I congratulate the huge levels of imports to satisfy demand. In 2010, we hon. Lady on bringing the matter to this Chamber. produced 18.4 million tonnes of coal to meet demand The potential for clean coal is estimated between of 51.4 million tonnes. What makes that all the stranger £2 billion and £4 billion, perhaps with some 60,000 jobs is that the UK has thousands of billions of tonnes of as well. Does the hon. Lady feel that we should be coal reserves, offshore and onshore. embracing the technology in totality, especially as oil Five Quarter, a company spun out of Newcastle has reached its highest price in the past two years? university, has licences from the Coal Authority to exploit 2 billion tonnes off the Northumberland coast. Chi Onwurah: I thank the hon. Gentleman for Using new technologies and processes, in energy terms mentioning the important economic potential of clean that is equivalent to 11 billion barrels of oil; and that is coal, especially at a time of high energy prices. I shall just one company. Yet in 2010 we imported 26.5 million mention that. tonnes of coal. Let us be clear that by importing so much coal we are Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend not reducing the global carbon footprint or improving agree that the north-east region could play a tremendous the safety of mining. Nearly 10 million tonnes of coal a role in terms of the abundant reserves off its coast, from year is imported from Russia. Despite having improved Durham to the top end of the north-east coast, somewhat in recent years, Russia’s mining safety record underground coal gasification and deep-mined coal reserves? is still poor, although it is better than China’s. In the Does she agree that we should consider every opportunity UK, we suffered the terrible tragedies of three mining to exploit that resource and, in the meantime, create deaths in 2010, the highest for several years. In the same thousands of what we would describe as clean jobs—clean year, 135 Russian miners died at work, including 66 in energy jobs—in our region, which has suffered greatly one explosion. as a result of the closure of the coal industry and shipbuilding? I applied for this debate because I believe there could be huge potential in exploiting the vast reserves of coal Chi Onwurah: My hon. Friend has a huge amount of beneath our feet, and I am concerned that the Government experience in coal, to which I pay tribute. He raises are not doing all they can to realise that potential. I important points about the north-east, with regard to should be grateful to hear the Minister’s views on why our huge coal reserves, which he rightly mentioned, and we import so much coal when we have such vast reserves. the economic potential of coal, which I will say a little more about. I thank him for his intervention. Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con): I Like all new exciting, but as yet untried, technologies, congratulate the hon. Lady on obtaining this important carbon capture and storage and underground coal debate and I welcome her remarks. Will she push the gasification require research, analysis and trialling to 67WH Clean Coal28 FEBRUARY 2012 Clean Coal 68WH

[Chi Onwurah] that is particularly important, because we have many world-leading but energy-intensive industries such as understand the risks, if any, and whether and how they chemical processing. Developing integrated clean coal might be overcome. However, I regret that I am yet to be processes has the potential to supply the energy needs convinced that the Government are fully committed to of those important sectors in the north-east and elsewhere. enabling the potential of clean coal technologies to meet our energy needs in the medium and long term Gloria De Piero (Ashfield) (Lab): I stress the huge and to bring to the region and the country the kind of potential of clean coal. Areas such as Ashford, which I jobs my hon. Friend has mentioned. The Carbon Capture represent, have powered the UK before and would like and Storage Association estimates that by 2025 the to power it again, so I thank my hon. Friend for the market for clean coal could be worth £10 billion a year debate and for pressing the Minister. to the UK, with more than 50,000 quality jobs. Chi Onwurah: My hon. Friend is right to draw attention David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): I agree with to the importance of clean coal and clean coal technologies the hon. Lady’s remarks on clean coal. She mentioned to the north-east and to many regions in the UK, 2025, which might be a realistic time for this technology including the north-west. to come in, because it is unproven. Does she acknowledge Last year, in response to an oral question, the Minister an issue that all hon. Members know about, given the told me: dependence of regions on coal, which is that the previous Government signed the EU large combustion plant “The Government recognise the potential of underground coal directive, which mandated that, by 2015, five of our gasification, but the technology is still in its early stages...Our view is that as a carbon capture option it is not a priority to biggest coal stations will come off-stream, way in advance pursue at present. The Coal Authority has lead responsibility, as of any realistic prospect of CCS working? I hope, the freehold owner of our national coal resource, and we continue eventually, that that technology will work. to monitor developments in the sector.”—[Official Report,7July 2011; Vol. 530, c. 1649.] Chi Onwurah: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman At a subsequent meeting, in January, the Minister supports clean coal technologies. The previous Government and his officials appeared somewhat more positive and made huge efforts to ensure that we were on track for certainly supportive of carbon capture more generally. I sustainable energy to meet the appropriate emissions was not filled with confidence, however, to learn that concerns. I will mention the timetable for carbon capture the DECC policy team that deals with clean coal is and storage, on which, as he rightly says, current coal called the coal liabilities team. A rose by any other generation capacity is dependent. name would smell as sweet, but can the Department We have already seen how the Department’s muddled champion the potential of clean coal rather than the messages have damaged the solar industry and, this legacy of the past? week, the wind industry, so it is now vital for the DECC’s continued delay played a significant part in Government to set out a sufficiently detailed and long-term the failure of the Longannet CCS demonstration project ambition for clean coal technologies in the UK, because in 2010. In November last year, the Department promised the prize in terms of jobs and energy security is far too that the money would be reallocated to other CCS important for us to fumble. projects, but in the autumn statement, the Treasury raided the CCS fund to spend on other projects. Coal- Dan Byles (North Warwickshire) (Con): I congratulate burning power stations still provide 28% of our electricity, the hon. Lady on securing the debate. Does she agree rising to 50% in times of high demand. Many coal-fired that terminology is important? Using the words “renewable stations are dependent on testing the viability of retrofitting energy” all the time, rather than “low-carbon energy”, those new technologies so as to be able to continue can muddle the debate. Effective clean technology, should production past 2015, as mentioned by the hon. Member it be proved to work, will be low-carbon energy, and for Warrington South (David Mowat). that is the sort of descriptor we should be using, rather Globally, China mines three times as much coal as than “renewable”. any other country, or more than 3,000 million tonnes of coal in 2010. Chi Onwurah: The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. He is right that in meeting the emissions targets Ian Lavery: I thank my hon. Friend for giving way a we have set ourselves, “low carbon” is a key term, rather second time. She mentioned China, and it is important than “renewables”. Low-carbon energy can be a transition for us to look at what is happening on carbon emissions to a future that might, in the longer term, be entirely not only regionally and nationally but internationally. I based on renewables as differently based forms of energy was lucky enough to be in China only two weeks ago, run out. with the Select Committee on Energy and Climate My concern is the real possibility that if the UK does Change. The Chinese put coal production in 2010 at not act now, companies will not invest here; they will 3.24 billion tonnes; they forecast 3.9 billion or almost reprioritise their investments away from carbon capture 4 billion tonnes of coal per year by 2020, and then they and storage and away from the UK. The economic are looking to reduce production to a steady output of potential of clean coal extends further than the direct around 2 billion tonnes by 2050. Does my hon. Friend jobs created in the industry and the supply chain. As agree that it is really up to us to use our engineering and has been mentioned, it could bridge the gap to longer-term manufacturing skills to get carbon capture and storage renewable energy and could keep energy costs down in on line in the UK, giving us a great opportunity to the short and medium term, which will be a better deal export our manufacturing to the likes of China, which for home consumers and for industry. In the north-east, will make a huge difference overall? 69WH Clean Coal28 FEBRUARY 2012 Clean Coal 70WH

Chi Onwurah: My hon. Friend makes an important sometimes thousands of metres deep and cannot be point. We might disagree about the speed at which the accessed by humans, can be accessed by machinery, and new technologies can be brought on line—whether 2015 that should be promoted. The last Government agreed or 2020—but what is absolutely clear is that the rest of that a strategic environmental assessment would be the world is burning coal and that the new technologies carried out off the Northumberland coast. Has that will be needed to ensure that the energy required in the happened? If not, will it happen? If so, when will it world does not bring about grossly increased emissions. happen? We have an opportunity to be at the forefront of a new and expanding market. It could be a huge new market, but I fear that we might let it pass by without fully 1.50 pm understanding it. The Minister of State, Department of Energy and I welcome the recent announcement from DECC Climate Change (Charles Hendry): It is a great pleasure that takes us a step closer to the first CCS commercial to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, demonstration project; it is long overdue. We are now Ms Osborne. I am grateful to the hon. Member for told, however, that the demonstration will take between Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) for securing four and eight years. Does the Minister not recognise this debate. She has raised some important issues. I am the importance of being ahead of the curve in sorry that, to make a political point, she distorted the demonstrating and scaling such technology? Instead of situation, but I will clarify how we are trying to take a programme of support and a stable policy environment forward carbon capture and storage particularly, to from the Government, we continue to see confusion. I ensure that Britain can lead global developments in the am sure the Minister agrees that a proper energy policy sector. requires security and a diverse source of supply. How can he reassure the House that he is doing everything to Let me say at the outset that we agree absolutely with ensure that we capture the benefits of clean coal? We the hon. Lady about the important role that coal can also need certainty.What assessment have the Government continue to make. We want it to have a significant role made of the economic potential for clean coal, and in our energy infrastructure for many years to come. It when will he be in a position to make a long-term is valued partly because of its flexibility, and as we decision on whether the Government will support it? move to inevitably more intermittent generation from all sorts of renewables, the flexibility, or dispatchability, of the coal sector is valuable indeed. We recognise that 1.48 pm to secure that long-term future, we must deal with Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): I congratulate carbon emissions. The clean coal technologies—the hon. my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Lady outlined two of them—can help to ensure that Central (Chi Onwurah) on getting the debate, because it coal has a chance to play an important role in our is timely. energy mix. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and in opposition, we We are keen to take CCS forward with all speed. The can all have a go at what the Government did or did not Department has created a new division called the office do in the ’80s or ’90s. Everyone would agree that, if of carbon capture and storage. It is not part of the old anything, the Government went too far in closing down coal liabilities group, which is dealing with the historic the coal industry, which could still have been producing legacies of the mining industry, but a new dynamic for this country today, but the truth is that the Labour team focused purely on developing clean coal technologies. Government also did not do particularly well by the I hope that the hon. Lady recognises that in our message coal industry. to the outside world we are already doing a great deal to signal a step change. Until the petrol price increase of 2007 and 2008, coal was a dirty word in this place. Thankfully, finally, in The hon. Lady referred to coal production and those years, because of the huge, uncontrollable expansion the volume of imports. In 2010, which is the last year in the cost of petrol, people began to realise that we had for which we have full figures, domestic production was to look for alternatives. The alternative could and should nearly 18 million tonnes from 16 underground and be coal, but since those days, we have become bogged 35 surface mines, employing just over 6,000 people. We down in discussions about where we go with it. There have seen a significant drop in imports in recent years, was a bidding process in Europe and in this country, but because of a range of factors, from 38 million tonnes in we have seen nothing but reversals, with projects at 2009 to 27 million tonnes, a drop of 31%, by 2010. Hatfield, Longannet and Kingsnorth all going into There is a range of reasons for that, including pricing reverse and being dropped. If possible—I am very issues—it may sometimes be cheaper to import coal—but aware of the limited time that the Minister has—can he often the reason is the sulphurous content and other tell us exactly where we are with the CCS process? Will issues that are important in combustion uses for the we see anything done in the near or longer term? The different types of coal. Those are commercial decisions, debate has been going on for a long time, and we have but I want to ensure that we create a long-term viable had, in effect, little if any progress. future for the UK coalmining industry, and we want as In particular, the underground gasification of coal is much coal as possible to be provided from domestic a huge issue and is being developed strongly in our sources. region by Newcastle university and the Ramsay project. On carbon capture and storage, the hon. Lady talked The technology was proven more than a century ago to about confusion. At a CCS conference yesterday, Jeff access reserves of coal way beyond anything that has Chapman, who heads the Carbon Capture and Storage ever been reached by conventional mining, whether in Association, used the word “tremendous” to describe the last 10 years or the last 1,000 years. Coal that is the Government’s position. He said that he was encouraged 71WH Clean Coal28 FEBRUARY 2012 Clean Coal 72WH

[Charles Hendry] We have £1 billion of up-front funding. We want to run the project so that it links in with European funding— by the speed at which we are trying to move forward the new entrant reserve 300 funding—so that that can and our dynamism and much more comprehensive also be accessed. We have allocated £125 million for approach. research and development, which is on top of that. Our Last year, we had to accept reluctantly that the Longannet electricity market reform measures are considering a project would not work and that we could not get the range of other factors that can be used to incentivise 300 MW CCS output that we wanted for $1 billion. long-term investment in full-scale plant. I hope that I Some aspects of the old competition were part of that can reassure the hon. Lady that we are moving ahead process. It ruled out some of the pre-combustion with tremendous speed. During the next few weeks, we technologies that we believe have a significant role to will launch the competition with a view to deciding how play and oxy-fuel combustion, which is another technology to select the best companies and the best projects as that could be significant. It did not take account of the soon as possible. £100 million cost involved in putting in place the flue The hon. Lady referred to underground coal gasification, gas desulphurisation technology that an old plant needs and I was grateful to her and the hon. Member for to give it a longer-term future. Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) for bringing representatives from Since pulling back from that project, we have sought Newcastle university to see me at the end of last year to to put in place a new one and a new competition that is talk through some of the issues. Underground coal much more all-embracing. It will give the industry gasification is a fledgling industry so far and has yet to opportunities to identify more projects, and greater be proven in the United Kingdom, but there is increasing scope for collaboration between different industrial partners interest in its potential. It has been suggested, as the in that process. It will also provide the opportunity to hon. Lady did today, that it could be linked with carbon find out whether we can use the funding to support capture and storage, although that concept is still at an infrastructure development. For example, would putting early stage of development and a lot more work will in place large, over-sized pipelines provide the opportunity need to be done on the process. I do not want to go into for an industry to be created, rather than a few pilot the technology, but we think it may be a significant projects? opportunity to enable us to access the extensive coal resources that remain in the United Kingdom. They are Our ambition has moved on. It is not just about how unlikely to be exploited by conventional mining, as the to put a few projects in place, but about how to create hon. Member for Blaydon (Mr Anderson) said, and we an industry that is viable and competitive in the 2020s. must use different technologies to access the very deep That is why there is a real sense of excitement. There mines, which cannot be done by men and women working were 200 people at the CCS conference yesterday. Two in them. hundred businesses attended an industry day last week, and 150 attended a previous one before Christmas. As with any activity involving underground coal, People around the world who know about the technology potential underground coal gasification operators would are looking at the United Kingdom as one of the places have to obtain a lease and a licence from the Coal where they can take it forward. Authority. It is likely that the UCG process would also release native methane, which would require a licence We still have the £1 billion. The hon. Lady is wrong in from Department of Energy and Climate Change under saying that it has been raided. The Treasury said that we petroleum legislation. However, given the incidental do not now expect it to be used in the current spending nature of any natural gas release, the Department will round, but it is still available, and if projects come seek to minimise any administrative burdens in that forward more quickly, they can access it. respect. Chi Onwurah: Is the Minister saying that the £1 billion To be acceptable in the United Kingdom, operators is available to be spent in this period of the spending must be able to demonstrate that they employ processes review? that are sound from the environmental control perspective. A great deal of evidence has been submitted about this, Charles Hendry: We think it unlikely that anyone and we look forward to working closely with the hon. could come forward for £1 billion in this spending Lady and her colleagues at Newcastle university to try round, but we have said that it is still available when it is to take the matter forward. She will be aware that the needed. The likely expectation is that it has been knocked Coal Authority has issued 18 conditional licences, paving back to the next spending round, but the commitment the way for potential exploitation of coal through UCG. remains. I will follow the progress of the Newcastle team and other conditional licences with great interest. Mr Anderson: I understand that I must be brief. If we I hope that in that brief response I have been able to are to reduce emissions by 8% from 1990 levels, when re-emphasise our commitment to clean coal technologies would CCS have to have proven itself and to be operational? and their contribution, and I hope that that strong message will go back to the communities that the hon. Charles Hendry: The hon. Gentleman speaks with Lady and her colleagues represent. tremendous authority on these issues. We want a viable Question put and agreed to. industry that is cost competitive with other low-carbon sources of electricity generation in the 2020s. We want the project work to be done now, and we are looking at 1.59 pm a range of technologies and their contribution. Sitting adjourned. 19WS Written Ministerial Statements28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Ministerial Statements 20WS

Over lunch, and subsequently in formal session, there Written Ministerial was a discussion on the accounting directive. This focused on the proposed requirement for increased transparency Statements in the payments from mining and extractive companies to Governments, on a per-country and per-project basis. I led the discussions by supporting the ambition of Tuesday 28 February 2012 increasing transparency in the sector by developing a meaningful reporting regime, while also stressing the importance of our extractive industries remaining BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS competitive. I also called for the materiality threshold, the monetary level at which reporting occurs, be set out in the directive. Third Statement of New Regulation The final orientation debate focused on venture capital and social entrepreneurship funds, and there was broad The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation support for the proposals. Some member states called and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): The Government are today for a heavier regulatory regime to include the need for publishing the One-in, One-out: Third Statement of depositaries, though this received little support and the New Regulation. This statement reports on regulations UK intervened to call for a light regime. within the scope of the one-in, one-out rule which are The Council agreed conclusions on smart regulation. expected to come into force between 1 January and Poland intervened to support the conclusions. 30 June 2012. In parallel, Departments are each publishing There was one AOB point on day one regarding the a summary of the regulations they intend to introduce. patents package. Several member states intervened to I am laying copies of the statement in the House call for the swift conclusion of the outstanding issues. Libraries. The main research and space items discussed on 21 February were: the global monitoring for the EU Competitiveness Council environment and security (GMES) programme; the annual growth survey in the context of the Europe 2020 strategy; and scene-setting discussions on the Horizon 2020 package The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, with a focus on international collaboration, SME support Innovation and Skills (Norman Lamb): The EU and the social sciences and humanities. Competitiveness Council took place in Brussels on In the orientation debate on GMES, the UK and 20 and 21 February 2012. I represented the UK on several other member states intervened to state that it internal market and industry issues on 20 February, and should be funded from within the EU budget. Andy Lebrecht, Deputy Permanent Representative to the EU, represented the UK on research issues on On the annual growth survey, member states noted in 21 February. A summary of those discussions follows. particular the need to develop complementarities between national and EU-level research programmes through The main internal market and industry issues discussed simplified public/private partnerships; and to improve on 20 February were; Europe 2020; public procurement; the focus on demand-side measures that could stimulate the accounting directive, which was also the subject of innovation, including strengthened support for pre- the lunchtime discussion; social entrepreneurship and commercial public sector procurement as a means of venture capital funds; and smart regulation. driving investment in new products. The UK intervention An orientation debate was held on the Europe 2020 referred to measures adopted at national level. strategy, linked to the 2012 annual growth survey. Discussions from this Competitiveness Council, and On the European Institute of Innovation and other sectoral Councils, are due to feed into the March Technology (EIT), Commissioner Vassiliou introduced 2012 European Council conclusions. All member states the Commission’s proposals, noting that it was a crucial intervened positively. I intervened to press for completion feature within Europe’s wider package of support for of those growth measures that were already in the innovation, and that the EIT was now delivering results pipeline, that is: concluding free trade agreements, fully through the knowledge and innovation communities implementing the services directive, continuing to deregulate (KICs). our professions, reducing regulatory burdens and creating On the bioeconomy. Commissioner Geoghegan-Quinn a fully functioning digital single market. Some member introduced the Commission’s communication “Innovating states also called for greater reciprocity with respect to for Sustainable Growth: a Bioeconomy for Europe”, the external dimension of the single market. I intervened stating that the smart and sustainable use of biological to counter these calls. resources and waste was now a necessity given the dual A second orientation debate was held on the proposal pressures of diminishing fossil resources and global to update the public procurement package. I intervened population growth. By making smart investments the to press for greater flexibility in the procurement rules, EU could maintain global leadership in and secure new and was supported by several other member states in sources of business growth. This was followed by an this regard. I also called for the retention of the current exchange of views over lunch, during which member distinction between so called “A-Services”and “B-Services”, states expressed support for a more coherent approach which are currently subject to different regimes. Specific to policy-making in this area, noting that the issue was to the UK, I also called for the Commission to consider too diverse to be handled by a single directorate-general. whether fledgling mutuals should be subject to full EU On Horizon 2020, the presidency hosted a further rules from the outset, and whether it might be appropriate orientation debate, inviting Ministers to explore the to introduce a time-limited exemption. support that will be required to ensure that the social 21WS Written Ministerial Statements28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Ministerial Statements 22WS sciences and humanities (SSH) are fully integrated within The Government will respond to the OTS the programme. Ministers were also invited to explore recommendations at the Budget, on 21 March 2012. the support necessary for SMEs, and the measures Copies of the final report on small business have been needed to fully embed international co-operation in the deposited in the Libraries of both Houses. programme. Member states, including the UK, expressed strong support for the principle of embedding support for SSH throughout Horizon 2020, with many arguing that technological advances that were not accompanied Asset Protection Agency (Interim Report) by a firm understanding of the potential socio-economic and behavioural impacts were less likely to be adopted by citizens. Several member states supported enhancing The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark international co-operation, notably in the context of Hoban): The interim report for the Asset Protection addressing global societal challenges. Many member Agency (APA) has today been made electronically available states, including the UK, underlined the need to foster in the Libraries of both Houses. participation by SMEs, including through the proposed debt and equity facilities and specific measures for The report contains commentary on key developments SMEs. Some member states highlighted the need for in relation to the APA and the asset protection scheme member states to provide direct networking and mentoring (APS) over the period from 31 March 2011 to 31 December support to SMEs and universities to improve synergies 2011. between the two. The UK noted we would be reviewing I am pleased to note the statements in the report that support available to SMEs. The presidency reaffirmed the likelihood of the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) its ambition to work towards political agreement (“partial being able to make a claim under the APS has reduced general approach”) at the May 2012 Competitiveness significantly and that the British taxpayer is expected Council. to make an overall profit of at least £5 billion from Under AOB, Commissioner Geoghegan-Quinn provided the APS. an update on Commission preparations for a European research area framework and noted that a recent public consultation had highlighted obstacles to researcher mobility and careers as key obstacles to the development Sale of Northern Rock Plc to Virgin Money of a genuine single market in research within the EU. On international thermonuclear experimental reactor programme (ITER), UK and several other member states called on the Commission to include funding The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark within the next multi-annual financial framework (MFF) Hoban): On 17 November 2011, the Chancellor announced as placing the programme outside the MFF risked the sale of Northern Rock plc to Virgin Money. The sending damaging signals about political support for transaction completed on 1 January 2012, following the project, which the EU is leading on. The presidency approval from the Financial Services Authority and provided information on the informal Council it hosted receipt of European Commission merger clearance. in Copenhagen on 2 February 2012. Today, UK Financial Investments Ltd (UKFI) has published a document setting out the background to and rationale for the decision to return Northern Rock plc to the private sector through its sale to Virgin TREASURY Money. The publication includes information regarding UKFI’s assessment of the Virgin Money bid against a Office of Tax Simplification (Small Business full range of options to return Northern Rock plc to the Tax Review) private sector, including remutualisation. UKFI and Northern Rock plc received independent corporate finance advice from Deutsche Bank. Other information includes The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David background on the sale process and the timing of the Gauke): The Government launched the Office of Tax sale. Simplification (OTS) in July 2010 to provide independent The publication also includes an assessment of the advice on simplifying the tax system. expected overall taxpayer returns from the Government’s The OTS has been working on three reviews and intervention in the former Northern Rock which amounts today has published its final recommendations on its to a positive net cash return. The Government provided small business tax review. The OTS will be presenting its £37 billion of funding into the two companies1 that interim reports on pensioner taxation and employee comprise the former Northern Rock and the return of share schemes next week. cash from these companies to Government (excluding On 9 May 2011, the Government asked the OTS to tax proceeds) is expected to total between £46 billion carry out a review of tax administration for small and £48 billion. businesses as part of the next stage of the OTS’s small Copies of this publication have been deposited in the business tax review. The OTS was asked to identify Libraries of both Houses. areas of the tax system that cause the most day-to-day 1The former Northern Rock was split into two entities on complexity for small businesses, recommend priority 1 January 2010: Northern Rock plc, a mortgage and savings areas for simplification and consider the impact of bank; and Northern Rock (Asset Management) plc, the remaining these recommendations on different business sectors. closed mortgage book. 23WS Written Ministerial Statements28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Ministerial Statements 24WS

CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT programme contingency to cover assessed risk. In total, this leaves £527 million of uncommitted contingency remaining. Government Olympic Executive (Annual Report) The change to the ODA anticipated final cost is due to a number of factors, including: A decrease of £72 million in the programme contingency The Minister for Sport and the Olympics (Hugh Robertson): required to meet remaining assessed risks; I am publishing today the Government Olympic A net £29 million increase in transport operating expenditure Executive’s Quarterly Report—“London 2012 Olympic reflecting a reallocation of £34 million to venue transport and Paralympic Games Quarterly Report February 2012”. operations offset by £5 million savings; This report explains the latest budget position as at A decrease of £15 million largely due to LOCOG taking responsibility for operational security from January 2012; 31 December 2011, and outlines some of the investments which are being made to capitalise on the London 2012 A reduction of £6 million in the forecast construction costs of the village due to close out of commercial contracts; and Olympic and Paralympic games. An increase of £3 million in the international broadcast Across the whole games project, preparations are centre and the main press centre costs due to commissioning reaching their final stages. Ownership of the Olympic of the building and improved drainage systems. park has been transferred from the Olympic Delivery With 150 days to go to the games, we remain on time Authority (ODA) to the London Organising Committee. and within budget with more than £500 million of The Olympic and Paralympic travel planning website uncommitted contingency remaining. This puts us in a “Get Ahead of the Games” has been launched to help strong position and gives me increasing confidence that people plan their games-time journeys. The security we can deliver the games under budget. and emergency services have taken part in some very I would like to commend this report to the Members visible testing exercises, and sports test events continue, of both Houses and thank them for their continued most recently the track cycling world cup at the velodrome interest in and support for the London 2012 games. and the diving world cup at the aquatics centre. Copies of the quarterly report February 2012 are At just 150 days to go until the games, the overall available online at: www.culture.gov.uk and will be deposited funding package remains at £9.298 billion with £527 million in the Libraries of both Houses. of uncommitted contingency available, a reduction of £1 million on the previous quarter. The ODA’s construction programme is now 96% complete. The anticipated final EDUCATION cost of the ODA’s construction, infrastructure and transport programme is £6.777 billion—a decrease of £79 million on the previous quarter. This includes £26 million that Cultural Education the ODA has returned to the DCMS, which is being transferred to LOCOG and the OPLC for work on park venues and security. On a like-for-like basis, the ODA’s The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove): anticipated final cost has reduced by £211 million since Together with the Under-Secretary of State for Culture, the 2010 spending review. Olympics, Media and Sport, the hon. Member for Wantage (Mr Vaizey), I am today publishing Darren Henley’s The ODA has achieved £38 million of new savings in report on cultural education and the Government’s the quarter October to December 2011, taking the total response to its recommendations. achieved since the November 2007 baseline to more Darren Henley, managing director of Classic FM, than £950 million. Construction of the venues and sets out a compelling challenge for making cultural infrastructure for the games is 96% complete, with the education in English schools world class. The report Olympic park and village handed over from the ODA to sets out a vision—to enable children from all backgrounds LOCOG in January 2012 so they can prepare the venues and every part of England to have the opportunity to for staging the games. experience and enjoy the best that our unique cultural A number of items of work have been transferred to heritage has to offer. LOCOG following the handover, as they are now best Once again we would like to record our grateful placed to deliver them. Accordingly, £24 million has thanks to Darren Henley for his ambitious approach to been released to LOCOG for operational security and undertaking a review of this scale across such a divergent for the conversion of venues for the Paralympic games. sector. His vision for excellence in cultural education is Up to £12m has also been released to LOCOG for one that we share. capital works which will have legacy benefits, including We would also like to express our gratitude to the the fit out of the media centres, the installation of cultural education sponsored bodies: Arts Council England, electric vehicle charging points and the relocation of the the British Film Institute, English Heritage and the hockey pitches to Eton Manor following the games. Heritage Lottery Fund, who have risen to the challenges As planned, funds have also been released for pedestrian posed in the report and who have found a way to work management outside games venues (£57.7 million) and together to address those challenges. We look forward additional utilities resilience measures across games to continuing to work closely with them, and to their venues (£12.5 million). These costs were previously increasing support for schools. forecast so do not constitute an increase, but rather a Learning about our culture and playing an active confirmation of previous budget assumptions. part in the cultural life of the school and wider community The remaining balance of contingency within the is as vital to developing our identity and self-esteem as public sector funding package now stands at £425 million, understanding who we are through knowing our history with an additional £102 million available to the ODA in and the origins of our society. 25WS Written Ministerial Statements28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Ministerial Statements 26WS

Enjoying and participating in cultural life should be design Saturday clubs, based on a model pioneered by available to all students: it must not be restricted to Sir James Sorrell, to give students access to high quality those young people whose families already enjoy the specialist equipment and tuition at local colleges and benefits of participating in cultural activities. No matter universities. The British Film Institute will lead the what their background or family circumstances, school establishment of a new National Youth Film Academy, pupils should have the opportunity to develop their which will receive £3 million from the Department for creativity, their relationship with society, and to contribute Education, with additional support from the National to the economy in ways that are beneficial to them as Lottery, to support film education for all children and individuals and to society. young people. Its aim will be to train the next generation Cultural education is a valuable part of a rounded of talented British film-makers. education that children and young people should expect Our Departments are determined that, together with to receive, not least on enhanced pupil performance our arm’s length bodies, our collective resources and across the curriculum. expertise will make a real difference to the quality of The Department for Education is therefore making cultural education experienced by all pupils in all schools. £15 million available over the next three years to ensure Copies of “Cultural Education in England”, together that all pupils can engage in a variety of cultural activities with the Government’s response have been placed in the of the highest quality. We want the experience that Libraries of both Houses. young people have of their cultural heritage while at school to inspire them to participate actively in the cultural life of the nation throughout their lives. This is not just about creating opportunities; the real and lasting impact will occur when those opportunities FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE are enjoyable, challenging, of high quality, and when the young people are appropriately supported to achieve. We welcome the collaboration and contribution of the DCMS-sponsored bodies to work with schools and South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands Marine make this vision a reality. Protected Area Our intention is to make it possible for every school to introduce every pupil to high quality cultural education, achieving academic excellence, and for young people to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign contribute to our thriving creative industries, if that is and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): We where their talent and passion lies. We are introducing would like to draw the attention of the House to the new initiatives, over the next three years, with the shared announcement yesterday by the Government of the commitment of the Arts Council England, English overseas territory of South Georgia and South Sandwich Heritage, the British Film Institute and the Heritage Islands, declaring a sustainable use marine protected Lottery Fund. We shall publish a new national plan for area (MPA), covering over 1 million square kilometres cultural education in which we will set out a clear route of the territory’s maritime zone. The Government very for cultural education from early years through to study much welcome this announcement, which means that at the highest level. waters around South Georgia and South Sandwich As evidence of this shared commitment, a new cross- Islands are now one of the largest sustainably managed ministerial group will help the Department for Culture, areas of ocean in the world. Media and Sport and the Department for Education The sustainable use marine protected area enshrines work more effectively with sponsored bodies and each in legislation new and existing policies to ensure the other. highest standards of sustainable fisheries management. We will invite teaching schools to draw up a programme The declaration includes over 20,000 square kilometres of work, investing £300,000 to develop training and of no-take zones, alongside a prohibition on commercial mentoring for new teachers and continuing professional bottom trawling and depth limits on the use of commercial development for experienced teachers. They will work bottom longlining. These measures will provide protection with and be supported by cultural sponsored bodies to for the sensitive biologically diverse seabed and support ensure all schools have access both to excellent teaching the protection of the fish stocks around each of the support and a variety of cultural education activities islands within the territory. for all pupils. The South Georgia toothfish fishery has already been Museums and galleries will receive £3.6 million to certified as sustainable and well managed by the Marine encourage and help all students to experience some of Stewardship Council. The MPA designation further our cultural and historical treasures at first hand. English underpins the sustainable management and environmental Heritage will work closely with schools, encouraging stewardship of South Georgia and South Sandwich them to explore historical sites in their local area. Islands, as well as contributing to the UK’s wider Our intention is that no talented young person, whatever commitment to the conservation of the southern ocean, their background, should be unable to realise their full through its leading role within the Commission for the creative potential. We are therefore investing £600,000 conservation of Antarctic marine living resources. The to establish a new National Youth Dance Company so Government of South Georgia and South Sandwich that talented young dancers can aspire to reach the top Islands has also indicated its intention to undertake of their profession, whether that is in contemporary or further scientific work during 2012 to identify whether classical dance. This will match the excellent models we further additional protection measures should be have in the field of music. We will expand the art and incorporated into the MPA designation in the future. 27WS Written Ministerial Statements28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Ministerial Statements 28WS

UK Government National Action Plan for Oxford West and Abingdon (Nicola Blackwood), (Women, Peace and Security) who chairs that group. I should also like to thank the civil society organisation Gender Action on Peace and Security (GAPS), for the contribution they have made The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign to the process of revising the plan. and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): I We will continue to consult with Parliament and civil wish to inform the House that the Foreign and society, including in the run up to a review of the Commonwealth Office, together with the Ministry of Government’s progress against the revised national action Defence and the Department for International plan in the autumn. As the national action plan expires Development, is today publishing a revised British in November 2013, a full evaluation will take place in Government national action plan on UNSCR 1325 2013, and make recommendations on how the plan women, peace and security. This national action plan is should be refreshed or replaced. fully integrated with the work of the Minister for Equalities, I have deposited a copy of the revised national action who is the ministerial champion on violence against plan in the Libraries of both Houses. It is also available women and girls. on the FCO website at: www.fco.gov.uk. I wanted to announce publication to coincide with the start of the British presidency of the UN Security Council in March, given the lead role that the UK takes on the Council, for the women, peace and security JUSTICE agenda. Since the national action plan was last revised in CPS and RCPO (Merger) November 2010, the Government have been active in promoting the women, peace and security agenda through multilateral bodies, including: a significant financial The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice contribution to UN women; encouraging more states to (Mr Crispin Blunt): I have today laid before Parliament develop national action plans; and promoting the inclusion a public consultation document: Consultation on an of gender issues within doctrine and practice for peace order giving legal effect to the administrative merger of missions. the Crown Prosecution Service and the Revenue and Across Whitehall, further efforts have been made to Customs Prosecutions Office. expand awareness of women, peace and security, issues, The merger of the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) including through revised conflict, security and human and the Revenue and Customs Prosecutions Office (RCPO) rights training programmes that include significant elements has already been achieved administratively. The merger covering gender issues; the deployment of female took place on 1 January 2010 and is safeguarding and engagement teams on UK military operations overseas; delivering improvements to the already high quality and the dissemination of a 1325 toolkit to all of our work on serious and complex cases. It is also providing embassies and Government offices overseas. increased value for money by minimising duplication We have also continued to deliver gender based and driving economies of scale. The benefits include programmes in our three priority countries. For example, an enhanced international capability, a specialist tax DFID has invested £60 million in a security sector prosecution service and a joint prosecution approach to accountability and police reform programme in the cross-border crime. Democratic Republic of Congo, which will include the The two organisations, however, remain legally distinct. development of sexual and gender-based violence focused I believe it is desirable for them to be one organisation police units. The FCO is funding a multi-donor project legally as well as operationally. An order under the to strengthen the capacity of the National Human Public Bodies Act 2011 would achieve this objective. Rights Commission in Nepal, to help develop a responsive The purpose of the consultation exercise is to seek and accessible justice system that will promote gender views on whether we should give legal effect to the equality. In addition to a wide range of gender focused administrative merger and whether the approach we are programme activity in Afghanistan, we are supporting proposing would achieve the desired effect. the Afghan development of a 1325 national action plan, ensuring wide ranging consultation, including The consultation closes on the 22 May 2012. I will with women’s groups. carefully consider the consultation responses before bringing forward any order giving legal effect to the In October 2011,1 published a review of the administrative merger of the CPS and RCPO. Government’s performance against the national action plan. The revised plan that I am announcing today learns from that review and outlines new commitments for action over the coming year. TRANSPORT It also reflects new challenges on women, peace and security, in particular following the Arab spring. The Crossrail Train Procurement national action plan has been expanded to include, for the first time, a regional action plan for the middle east and north Africa. The Secretary of State for Transport (Justine Greening): We are grateful to the associate parliamentary group I would like to inform the House that the invitation to on women, peace and security (APG WPS) for their negotiate for the procurement of rolling stock and active engagement on this important issue, and would associated depot facilities has today been issued by in particular like to thank my hon. Friend the Member Crossrail Ltd. 29WS Written Ministerial Statements28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Ministerial Statements 30WS

Together with the Mayor of London, my co-sponsor wider supply chain and provide opportunities for training, on the Crossrail project, I welcome this major milestone apprenticeships, and small and medium-sized businesses in Crossrail’s journey from inception to reality. within their procurement strategy.Bidders are also required Crossrail will create vital new transport infrastructure to establish an appropriate local presence to manage the to support economic growth. It will deliver faster journey delivery of the contract. times and a 10% increase in the capacity of London’s The Mayor and I are also keen to understand and rail network. communicate the benefit of this contract to the UK Crossrail Ltd is inviting suppliers to design, manufacture, economy; bidders are being asked, in the invitation to finance and service around 60 new trains and build a negotiate, to specify from where each element of the depot at Old Oak Common in West London. These new contract will be sourced. This is not an assessment trains will provide around 27,000 seats, reducing congestion criterion in the decision process, however, the successful and bringing an additional 1.5 million people within bidder will be required to report against their proposed 45 minutes of London’s major business centres. estimates. Hon. Members will recall that the previous Secretary Secondly, Crossrail Ltd, which has already developed of State for Transport committed to consider any relevant a reputation for being an industry leader in this field, findings of the Government’s growth review as part of will ensure that, going forward, this procurement is this and other large-scale procurements. Hon. Members efficient and effective and does not involve unnecessary will also be aware that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor costs for the bidders. of the Exchequer published the national infrastructure In addition, this contract will provide a significant plan in November 2011 and included a package of element of public investment, alongside private finance, measures to reform public procurement in the autumn optimising the balance of public debt and transfer of statement. risk to the private sector. This approach will help ease My Department has been working with colleagues the costs of debt repayments to the public purse, as well across Whitehall and suppliers and delivery bodies to as reduce bidders’ requirements to raise debt and equity, implement these recommendations. Across the transport while still transferring significant risk to the private sector we want to improve dialogue with suppliers and sector, ensuring that we secure value for money. First increase the long-term visibility of forthcoming contracts and foremost, the successful bidder must be able to in order to strengthen the capability of the UK supply deliver the right trains and depot facilities. chain. Above all, I want this procurement to be a fair In respect of Crossrail, reflecting its stage in the process that provides best value for money for the UK procurement process, this invitation to negotiate is a taxpayer and future fare payers’ and high quality, reliable clear example of how, working in partnership with the trains for the millions of people that will use Crossrail Mayor and Crossrail Ltd, we are already adapting our services every week. approach. Four bidders will be receiving the invitation to negotiate First, the invitation to negotiate includes requirements having performed strongly at the pre-qualification stage for “responsible procurement”. This means that bidders and I look forward to a highly competitive process. The are required to set out how they will engage with the contract will be awarded in Spring 2014. 173W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 174W

However, we recognise there is a strong argument for Written Answers to increased transparency by all bodies in receipt of public funds, including companies providing public services Questions under contract. The Government’s “Open Data Consultation” sought views on the types of organisations to which an Open Data policy would apply. A summary Tuesday 28 February 2012 of the responses has been published at: www.data.gov.uk The FOI Act is also subject to post-legislative scrutiny JUSTICE to see how it is working in practice. Further policy in this area will be developed in light of the evidence Action for Employment drawn from both sets of work.

Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Dangerous Driving: Death Justice what contracts his Department has with A4e; and what the (a) purpose and (b) value is of each such contract. [97078] Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many cases of death through (a) careless Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Ministry of Justice has no and (b) dangerous driving were recorded (i) in total current contracts with A4e. However other departments and (ii) involving illegal levels of alcohol in (A) Leeds do have contracts with A4e that deliver services to North West constituency, (B) West Yorkshire police offenders. force area and (C) England in each of the last five years. [96521] Business: Freedom of Information Mr Blunt: The number of defendants proceeded against Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for for, and convicted of, (a) causing death by careless or Justice if he will bring forward legislative proposals to inconsiderate driving, (b) causing death by careless extend the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to private driving when under the influence of drink or drugs, and companies. [97067] (c) causing death by dangerous driving in England and the West Yorkshire police force area, in each year between Mr Djanogly: We do not currently propose to extend 2006 and 2010 (latest currently available), can be viewed the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to private in the table. companies in general. It would be inappropriate for companies not in public ownership and who are primarily Court proceedings data are not available at constituency accountable to shareholders, to face the increased level. administrative burden required by the FOIA when Annual court proceedings data for 2011 are planned Government are seeking to reduce regulatory burdens. for publication in May 2012.

Defendants1 proceeded against at magistrates courts and found guilty2 at all courts of offences related to causing death by careless or dangerous driving in England and the West Yorkshire police force area in each year between 2006 and 2010

2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

Proceeded Proceeded Proceeded Proceeded Proceeded Area/offence against Guilty against Guilty against Guilty against Guilty against Guilty

England

Causing Death n/a n/a n/a n/a — 2 172 80 277 228 by careless or inconsiderate driving3

Causing Death 57 62 36 62 26 44 26 31 30 35 by Careless Driving when under the influence of Drink or Drugs

Causing Death 249 209 256 221 247 208 236 212 183 148 by Dangerous Driving

West Yorkshire police force area

Causing Death n/a n/a n/a n/a — — 8 5 15 10 by careless or inconsiderate driving3 175W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 176W

Defendants1 proceeded against at magistrates courts and found guilty2 at all courts of offences related to causing death by careless or dangerous driving in England and the West Yorkshire police force area in each year between 2006 and 2010 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Proceeded Proceeded Proceeded Proceeded Proceeded Area/offence against Guilty against Guilty against Guilty against Guilty against Guilty

Causing Death 45 23 23 —— 23 by Careless Driving when under the influence of Drink or Drugs Causing Death 14 13 14 9 10 13 13 11 11 6 by Dangerous Driving n/a = Not applicable. 1 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed fortwoor more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 2 The number of defendants found guilty in a particular year may exceed the number proceeded against as the proceedings in the magistrates court took place in an earlier year and the defendants were found guilty at the Crown court in the following year; or the defendants were found guilty of a different offence to that for which they were originally proceeded against. 3 In August 2008 section 2B of the Road Traffic Act 1988 was added by the Road Safety Act 2006. Note: Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extractedfromlarge administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services within the Ministry of Justice.

Departmental ICT number of our own Arms Length bodies. The new solution is due to go live in 2013-14 and has a NPV Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice return over 10 years of £102 million. The new solution how much his Department spent on enterprise resource will deliver significant savings of £40 million per annum planning systems in the last 12 months for which through increased efficiency, reduced systems maintenance figures are available. [96609] and support and improved management information. These benefits are quoted excluding any sharing of our Mr Kenneth Clarke: During 2010-11 the Ministry was platform by other departments and will increase should supported by three enterprise resource planning (ERP) this occur. systems for finance (including procurement, inventory Departmental Legal Opinion and manufacturing), human resources (HR and learning management) and payroll services. Two systems (Aramis Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for and Chrimson) were as a result of contracts between Justice how much his Department spent on external the MOJ and suppliers for the provision, support and legal services in the last year. [96480] maintenance of a system and a transactional processing service from the supplier covering MOJ HQ and HMCTS. Mr Djanogly: External legal spend has been understood The third system (Phoenix) was a contract for the to relate to the Departments legal spend for advice and provision, support and maintenance of an ERP covering representation on behalf of the Department. This consists NOMS which was used by an internal shared services of spend with Parliamentary Counsel, Treasury Solicitors department. There are three systems because the (TSol), external solicitors firms and Counsel. It does departments and agencies which combined to create the not include spend on the provision of legal advice and MOJ had their own systems originally. support to third parties such as for legal aid or criminal The spend during the year 2010-11 was: litigation including enforcement and investigation activities. Information that is currently available shows that for System 2010-11 spend (£ million) the period January to September 2011 the Department’s Aramis 2.38 total external legal spend as defined above was £17,034,601. Chrimson 3.64 Data for the period October to December will be available Phoenix 17.98 for collation at the beginning of March. 1 Excluding project development costs relating to new functionality This information is collated as part of the MOJ’s development to meet new business needs. Business Plan quarterly data summaries (QDS). The As part of the Transforming Justice initiative we are report is available at: currently replacing the three systems through a Shared http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/transparency-data/ Services programme with a new single ERP platform. quarterly-data-summaries.htm This initiative was approved by the Cabinet Office ERG When seeking legal advice from external counsel the in 2010-11 and aligns to the Cabinet Office Shared Ministry of Justice use Panel Counsel in accordance Services Strategy for Government which has within it with Attorney-General Guidance. the concept of a Justice Sector Shared Services solution External legal firms are engaged from the list of building on the investment we are making through our accredited suppliers under Legal Services Framework Transforming Justice initiative. Agreements available on the Buying Solutions website We are currently exploring the opportunity for this for the Government Procurement Services: new platform to be used by the Home Office and a www.buyingsolutions.gov.uk 177W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 178W

Departmental Pay Turnover rate Number (Percentage) Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what his Department’s policy is on payment to October 2010 4 15.3 private companies in lieu of salary and how many (a) November 2010 3 15.8 payroll staff and (b) non-payroll staff, including December 2010 3 17.2 consultants and contractors of (i) his Department and January 2011 1 14.5 (ii) its executive agencies and non-departmental public February 2011 1 14.3 bodies are paid by means of payments to a limited March 2011 7 12.5 company in lieu of salary; what the amount paid into April 2011 5 13.7 private companies is since May 2010; and if he will May 2011 7 16.6 make a statement. [97231] June 2011 6 16.6 July 2011 13 32.7 Mr Kenneth Clarke: The policy of the Ministry of August 2011 6 27.0 Justice is to pay all payroll staff via PAYE. September 2011 4 26.0 The Ministry of Justice employs non-payroll staff, October 2011 8 27.6 consultants and contractors through recruitment agencies November 2011 6 27.2 rather than private companies and only when there is an December 2011 4 30.1 operational necessity to do so. Recruitment agencies supply contractors, interims and agency staff for a fee, Under the Data Protection Principles in the Data which includes the cost of the sourced labour and an Protection Act 1998, it is not possible to disclose the element for their administration. Details on the methods names of each individual staff member. It would breach of payment used by recruitment agencies to individuals, the fair processing principle of that Act. including whether it is through PAYE, is a matter for Family Law: Legal Aid Scheme those companies. When engaging these contracts, the Ministry of Justice ensures that it receives value for Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for money and complies with procurement legislation, HM Justice by what percentage the budget for private and Treasury’s rules and Cabinet Office Efficiency and Reform public family law legal aid will be reduced in 2014-15 Group requirements. compared to 2009-10 if the Legal Aid, Sentencing and The Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the right hon. Punishment of Offenders Bill is enacted in its current Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey form. [96316] (Danny Alexander), has announced an urgent review of the tax arrangements of senior public sector appointments, Mr Djanogly: There is no separate budget for private to report by the end of March 2012. Ministers are paid and public family law legal aid; funding forms part of through the departmental payroll. the overall legal aid provision. Based on a counterfactual Information on the number of non payroll staff engaged assessment using 2009-10 as a baseline and the figures through recruitment agencies by the Ministry of Justice published in the impact assessment, spending would and its executive agencies and non-departmental bodies reduce by 29% in steady state. Steady state figures are since May 2010 is not centrally available. employed here for consistency purposes, as all figures in In respect of the amount that the Ministry of Justice the impact assessment are presented on this basis. has paid to recruitment agencies since May 2010, I refer Freedom of Information the hon. Member to my answer to his parliamentary question number 89643 on 17 January 2012, Official Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Report, column 696W. if he will bring forward legislative proposals to apply Departmental Senior Civil Servants the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to (a) navigation authorities and (b) the conservators of the Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice River Cam. [97129] how many senior civil servants left his Department and its public bodies in each month since May 2010; what Mr Djanogly: A number of navigation authorities, their names are; what the rate of turnover of senior including British Waterways, the Broads Authority and civil servants in his Department was during this period; the Environment Agency are already covered by the and if he will make a statement. [96246] Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA). The Government intend that the Canal and River Trust Mr Kenneth Clarke: The number of senior civil servants should be covered by the FOIA in respect of functions that left the Ministry of Justice and its public bodies in inherited from British Waterways. We will also, within each month since May 2010 and rate of turnover of two years, launch a procedure, under section 5 of the senior civil servants in the Ministry of Justice during FOIA, to consider extending the provisions of the Act this period, is set out in the following table: to other navigation authorities including the Conservators of the River Cam. Turnover rate Number (Percentage) Judiciary: Complaints

May 2010 1 16.2 Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for June 2010 3 15.8 Justice how many judges have been (a) investigated July 2010 3 15.8 and (b) disciplined by the Office for Judicial August 2010 2 15.3 Complaints in each year since 2004; and what September 2010 3 15.1 disciplinary steps were taken in each such case. [97056] 179W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 180W

Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Office for Judicial Complaints These figures include complaints about judges, coroners, (OJC) was established in April 2006 under the tribunal judges and magistrates, where those complaints Constitutional Reform Act 2005. have been referred to the OJC by a Tribunal President The following table details the number of complaints or Local Advisory Committee. received and investigated, along with the disciplinary sanctions imposed.

Complaints received Number of disciplinary sanctions Disciplinary action taken

2006-07 1,674 32 A/W/G1—3 Reprimand—13 Removed from office—16

2007-08 1,437 49 A/W/G1—9 Reprimand—19 Removed from office—21

2008-09 1,339 84 A/W/G1—18 Reprimand—22 Suspended—1 Resigned—19 Removed from office—24

2009-10 1,571 87 A/W/G1—29 Reprimand—11 Suspended—1 Resigned—18 Removed from office—28

2010-11 1,638 106 A/W/G1—24 Reprimand—28 Resigned—25 Removed from office—29 1 Advice-Warning-Guidance

Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009-10 as a baseline and the figures published in the Justice how many cases have been investigated by the impact assessment, spending would reduce by 8% in judicial appointments and conduct ombudsman in steady state. Steady state figures are employed here for each of the last three years. [97057] consistency purposes, as all figures in the impact assessment are presented on this basis. Mr Kenneth Clarke: In each of the last three years, the judicial appointments and conduct ombudsman has Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for investigated the following number of cases: Justice by what percentage the budget for social welfare 2011-12 (current year to date): 68 legal aid will be reduced in 2014-15 compared to 2010-11: 67 2009-10 if the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment 2009-10: 70 of Offenders Bill is enacted in its current form. [96315] 2008-09: 103. Mr Djanogly: There is no separate budget for social Further information and a breakdown of cases can welfare legal aid; funding forms part of the overall legal be found in the ombudsman’s annual reports. aid provision. Based on a counterfactual assessment using 2009-0 as a baseline and the figures published in Legal Aid Scheme the impact assessment, spending would reduce by approximately 53% in steady state. Steady state figures Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for are employed here for consistency purposes, as all figures Justice by what percentage the criminal legal aid budget in the impact assessment are presented on this basis. will be reduced in 2014-15 compared to 2009-10 if the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Bill is enacted in its current form. [96314] Justice how many claims brought by employees for (a) negligence and (b) breach of statutory duty were made Mr Djanogly: There is no separate budget for criminal against his Department in each of the last 10 years; and legal aid; funding forms part of the overall legal aid how much was paid in (i) damages, (ii) defence legal provision. Based on a counterfactual assessment using costs and (iii) claimant legal costs in each year. [96482] 181W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 182W

Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice (MOJ) was down by length of tariff rounded to the nearest year, in created in June 2007 when some functions of the Home the period since the introduction of that sentence; Office (probation, prisons and prevention of reoffending) [96053] were combined with those of the Department for (3) for what offences prisoners were serving an Constitutional Affairs (DCA); the Department only indeterminate sentence for public protection, broken holds records for that period. down by region in which they were resident when Individual business units do not record case types arrested, in the period since the introduction of that and costs in a way that would allow us to provide this sentence. [96054] information. Files held by the Department and/or the Treasury Solicitor would need to be searched manually Mr Blunt: Table 1 shows the number of prisoners to obtain the information which would incur a serving an indeterminate sentence for public protection disproportionate cost. (IPP), who were released from custody by the independent Parole Board in 2010 and January to September 2011, Olympic Games 2012 broken down by offence. Discharge data for the full year 2011 is not yet available; data for 2009 and earlier Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for years is not held in this form, so a breakdown by Justice whether he plans to use his power under section offence cannot be provided without incurring 5 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to designate disproportionate cost. London Organising Committee of the Olympic Games As at 31 December 2011 there were 6,162 offenders in as an organisation that appears to exercise functions of prison serving an indeterminate sentence for public a public nature. [96534] protection (IPP). Table 2 shows a breakdown of these prisoners by offence and tariff length. Mr Djanogly: The Government do not plan to extend These figures have been drawn from administrative the Freedom of Information Act to the London Organising IT systems which, as with any large scale recording Committee of the Olympic Games and Paralympic system, are subject to possible errors with data entry Games Limited (LOCOG), a private company limited and processing. by guarantee. Information is not held centrally on the region in The Government remain committed to full transparency which an offender was resident at the time of their and this includes the right of the National Audit Office arrest, so the requested table cannot be provided. to investigate the spending of all public money in relation Table 1: Offenders released from prison having served an indeterminate to the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games. sentence for public protection (IPP), by offence 1 January 2010 to 30 The Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) September 2011, England and Wales is already subject to the Freedom of Information Act, Offence Number including in relation to information it holds about LOCOG. The DCMS also publish information on the Other homicide and attempted 14 funding it provides to LOCOG in quarterly economic homicide reports. Manslaughter 10 Arson 18 Prison Sentences Other violence against the 121 person Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Rape 7 Justice (1) for what offences prisoners were serving an Other sexual offences 23 indeterminate sentence for public protection (IPP) (a) Robbery 81 who have been released and (b) who are still in custody Other offences 18 sentenced under an IPP, in the period since the Total 292 introduction of that sentence; [96052] Data Sources and Quality: These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems (2) for what offences prisoners were serving an which, as with any large scale recording system, are subject to indeterminate sentence for public protection, broken possible errors with data entry and processing.

Table 2: Prison population for indeterminate sentences for public protection (IPPs), by tariff length and offence, 31 December 2011 England and Wales Other Other violence homicide and against Other attempted the sexual Other Tariff length Manslaughter homicide person Rape offences Robbery Arson offences Total

Less than or equal 4 16 14 4 68 32 19 32 189 to 1 year Greater than 1 year 20 66 298 33 240 313 127 127 1,224 to less than or equal to 2 years Greater than 2 34 37 568 126 194 427 80 130 1,596 years to less than or equal to 3 years Greater than 3 32 31 442 205 106 300 32 71 1,219 years to less than or equal to 4 years 183W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 184W

Table 2: Prison population for indeterminate sentences for public protection (IPPs), by tariff length and offence, 31 December 2011 England and Wales Other Other violence homicide and against Other attempted the sexual Other Tariff length Manslaughter homicide person Rape offences Robbery Arson offences Total

Greater than 4 21 31 221 183 49 155 14 66 740 years to less than or equal to 5 years Greater than 5 16 32 137 138 44 72 1 23 463 years to less than or equal to 6 years Greater than 6 8 22 50 107 15 36 1 14 253 years to less than or equal to 7 years Greater than 7 7 2527731413110170 years to less than or equal to 8 years Greater than 8 2101234581476 years to less than or equal to 9 years Greater than 9 0 17 7 17 4 1 0 1 47 years to less than or equal to 10 years Greater than 10 1933040121 years to less than or equal to 11 years Greater than 11 1 1222100018 years to less than or equal to 12 years Greater than 12 0622000010 years to less than or equal to 13 years Greater than 13 042001007 years to less than or equal to 14 years Greater than 14 062000008 years to less than or equal to 15 years Greater than 15 1311130212 years Tariff not available 2 4 32 18 16 25 5 7 109 Total 149 331 1,820 946 757 1,390 281 488 6,162 Data Sources and Quality: These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems which, as with any large scale recording system, are subject to possible errors with data entry and processing.

Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) what average period in excess of their tariff Justice how many prisoners serving an indeterminate has been served by prisoners given an indeterminate sentence for public protection have served more than sentence for public protection and subsequently (a) six months, (b) one year, (c) two years, (d) three released from custody, in the period since the years and (e) four or more years beyond their tariff. introduction of that sentence; [96056] [96057] (2) what the average period served by prisoners given Mr Blunt: As at 31 December 2011 a total of 3,489 an indeterminate sentence for public protection and prisoners serving an indeterminate sentence for public subsequently released from custody has been, in the protection (IPP) had passed their tariff expiry date. The period since the introduction of that sentence. [96063] following table shows a breakdown of these prisoners by length of time beyond tariff.

Mr Blunt: Between 1 January 2010 and 30 September Number 2011 a total of 292 offenders serving an indeterminate sentence for public protection were released from Total IPPs beyond tariff expiry date 3,489 custody by the independent Parole Board. On average, Of which: these offenders had served 26 months in excess of their More than 6 months to less than or equal to 435 tariff. 1 year beyond tariff These figures have been drawn from administrative More than 1 year to less than or equal to 903 IT systems which, as with any large scale recording 2 years beyond tariff system, are subject to possible errors with data entry More than 2 year to less than or equal to 837 3 years beyond tariff and processing. 185W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 186W

looking at the range of tables we publish and the Number frequency of publication. The right hon. Member’s More than 3 year to less than or equal to 616 request will be taken into account in that review. 4 years beyond tariff More than 4 years beyond tariff 311 Proceeds of Crime These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems which, as with any large scale recording Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for system, are subject to possible errors with data entry Justice pursuant to the answer of 20 February 2012, and processing. Official Report, column 614W, on Manoucehr Bahmanzadeh, (1) whether his Department is having Prisoners: Suicide discussions on (a) the return of monies from the state of Jersey, (b) the Asset Recovery Incentive Scheme and (c) the use of monies held in Jersey; [96477] Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many of the prisoners who committed suicide in (2) who will receive the interest accruing from the (a) 2009, (b) 2010 and (c) 2011 had been in prison for £950,730 held by Jersey. [96478] less than one (i) week and (ii) month. [96850] James Brokenshire: I have been asked to reply on Mr Blunt: The National Offender Management behalf of the Home Department. Service records numbers of self-inflicted deaths. The The Home Office is in discussion with the Jersey definition of self-inflicted death is broader than the authorities about the seized funds. legal definition of suicide and includes all deaths where it appears that a prisoner has acted specifically Repossession Orders to take their own life. This inclusive approach is used, in part because inquest verdicts are often not available for some years after a death. Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many homes were repossessed in (a) Bexleyheath The numbers of self-inflicted deaths in prison and Crayford constituency and (b) the London custody by time in prison custody are published in Borough of Bexley in each of the last five years. the annual Safety in Custody Statistics bulletin. These [96431] can be found in table 7 of the statistical tables on deaths which are available from the Ministry of Justice website: Mr Djanogly: The table shows the numbers of claims leading to orders being made for the http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/statistics-and-data/ repossession of property by mortgage lenders and prisons-and-probation/safety-in-custody.htm landlords in (a) Bexleyheath and Crayford The latest published figures are for 2010. The Safety constituency and (b) the London borough of Bexley in in Custody Annual statistical bulletin 2011 is due to be each of the last five years. The Ministry of Justice does published on 26 July 2012. not hold information on the total numbers of repossessions of property (including where keys are handed back Table 1: Cumulative number of self-inflicted deaths by time in prison voluntarily). custody 2009 2010 These figures represent the numbers of claims leading to orders being made. This is more accurate than the First week 12 10 number of orders, removing the double-counting of First month 18 15 instances where a single claim leads to more than one Note: order. It is also a more meaningful measure of the Numbers in first week include any self-inflicted death that occurred number of homeowners who are subject to court on the day of arrival or the first full seven days in prison custody. repossession actions. Similarly, numbers in first month include any on the day of arrival or first full 30 days in custody. Annual numbers may change slightly These figures do not indicate how many properties from time to time as inquest verdicts and other information becomes have actually been repossessed. Repossessions can occur available. without a court order, such as where borrowers hand the keys back to the lender. Also, not all possession Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice orders result in repossession. Many orders are suspended if he will make it his policy that the July 2012 safer and if the borrower or tenant complies with the repayment custody bulletin should include the (a) date of first arrangements set out in the suspended order the property reception into custody and (b) sentence length, where will not be repossessed. the prisoner had been sentenced, for each prisoner Claims leading to orders figures for all regions and who committed suicide in custody in England and local authority areas in England and Wales in 2011 Wales in 2011. [96851] were recently published on 9 February 2012. This statistical bulletin is available from the Ministry Mr Blunt: The Safety in Custody bulletin is an of Justice website at: official statistics publication and as such the content is overseen by the Ministry of Justice chief statistician. http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/statistics-and-data/ On 23 February we published our annual consultation civil-justice/mortgage-possession.htm on the Ministry of Justice and its arm’s length bodies’ Claims leading to orders figures for all parliamentary statistical work-plan. Within this are our plans to constituencies in England and Wales will be placed on review the Safety in Custody annual statistics bulletin, the website by 8 March. 187W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 188W

Number of mortgage1 and landlord2,3 possession claims leading to orders made4,5,6 for properties in Bexleyheath and Crayford constituency7,8, and the London borough of Bexley7, 2007-11 Mortgage possession Landlord Possession 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011

Bexleyheath and 150 165 135 80 9105 125 125 120 175 9215 Crayford constituency Bexley 490 500 380 255 9265 380 435 400 410 9580 1 Includes all types of mortgage lenders. 2 Includes all types of landlord whether social or private. 3 Landlord actions include those made under both standard and accelerated procedures. Landlord actions via the accelerated procedure enables the orders to be made solely on the basis of written evidence for shorthold tenancies, when the fixed period of tenancy has come to an end. 4 The number of claims that lead to an order includes all claims in which the first order, whether outright or suspended, is made during the period. 5 The court, following a judicial decision, may grant an order for possession immediately. This entitles the claimant to apply for a warrant to have the defendant evicted. However, even where a warrant for possession is issued, the parties can still negotiate a compromise to prevent eviction. 6 Includes outright and suspended orders, the latter being where the court grants the claimant possession but suspends the operation of the order. Provided the defendant complies with the terms of suspension, which usually require the defendant to pay the current mortgage or rent instalments plus some of the accrued arrears, the possession order cannot be enforced. 7 All figures are rounded to the nearest 5. 8 Data up until the first quarter of 2010 (January to March) will reflect Bexleyheath and Crayford constituency boundaries as fixed at the 2005 general election and for the rest of 2010 and 2011 the re-fixed boundaries as of May 2010. 9 All period figures are based on provisional data. Source: Ministry of Justice

Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for These figures do not indicate how many properties Justice how many homes were repossessed in (a) have actually been repossessed. Repossessions can occur Pendle constituency, (b) east Lancashire and (c) without a court order, such as where borrowers hand Lancashire in each of the last five years. [96557] the keys back to the lender. Also, not all possession orders result in repossession. Many orders are suspended Mr Djanogly: The following table shows the numbers and if the borrower or tenant complies with the repayment of claims leading to orders being made for the repossession arrangements set out in the suspended order the property of property by mortgage lenders and landlords in (a) will not be repossessed. Pendle constituency (b) the local authorities in the east of Lancashire and (c) Lancashire in each of the last Claims leading to orders figures for all regions and five years. The Ministry of Justice does not hold information local authority areas in England and Wales in 2011 on the total numbers of repossessions of property (including were recently published on 9 February 2012. where keys are handed back voluntarily). This statistical bulletin is available from the Ministry These figures represent the numbers of claims leading of Justice website at: to orders being made. This is more accurate than the number of orders, removing the double-counting of http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/statistics-and-data/ civil-justice/mortgage-possession.htm instances where a single claim leads to more than one order. It is also a more meaningful measure of the Claims leading to orders figures for all parliamentary number of homeowners who are subject to court constituencies in England and Wales will be placed on repossession actions. the above website by 8 March.

Number of mortgage1 and landlord2, 3 possession claims leading to orders made4, 5, 6 for properties in Pendle constituency7, 8, the local authorities in east Lancashire7 and Lancashire; 2007-11 Mortgage possession Landlord possession 2007 2006 2009 2010 20119 2007 2008 2009 2010 20119

Pendle constituency 155 230 180 155 140 50 55 60 60 60 Blackburn with Darwen 320 440 250 230 220 270 270 245 235 235 UA Burnley 200 275 235 150 175 140 150 110 115 80 Hyndburn 180 260 165 130 160 145 150 125 115 105 Pendle 155 230 180 155 140 50 55 60 60 60 RibbleValley60855045452540152025 Rossendale 145 235 140 110 130 140 125 85 90 90 Lancashire 2,170 2,855 1,850 1,460 1,615 770 790 640 635 595 1 Includes all types of mortgage lenders. 2 Includes all types of landlord whether social or private. 3 Landlord actions include those made under both standard and accelerated procedures. Landlord actions via the accelerated procedure enable the orders to be made solely on the basis of written evidence for shorthold tenancies, when the fixed period of tenancy has come to an end. 4 The number of claims that lead to an order includes all claims in which the first order, whether outright or suspended, is made during the period. 5 The court, following a judicial decision, may grant an order for possession immediately. This entitles the claimant to apply for a warrant to have the defendant evicted. However, even where a warrant for possession is issued, the parties can still negotiate a compromise to prevent eviction. 6 Includes outright and suspended orders, the latter being where the court grants the claimant possession but suspends the operation of the order. Provided the defendant complies with the terms of suspension, which usually require the defendant to pay the current mortgage or rent instalments plus some of the accrued arrears, the possession order cannot be enforced. 7 All figures are rounded to the nearest five. 8 Data up until the first quarter of 2010 (January to March) will reflect Pendle constituency boundaries as fixed at the 2005 general election and for the rest of 2010 and 2011 the re-fixed boundaries as of May 2010. 9 All 2011 figures are based on provisional data. Source: Ministry of Justice 189W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 190W

Society of Editors: Media Lawyers Association (3) what impact assessment was carried out before awarding a contract for outsourced translation support Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for to Applied Language Solutions; [96308] Justice what discussions his Department has had with (4) what discussions he had with the Secretary of the (a) Society of Editors and (b) Media Lawyers State for Culture, Media and Sport on the contract for Association since May 2010; and if he will place in the translation services for the Olympic Games with Library a copy of any correspondence between his Applied Language Solutions (a) prior to and (b) after Department and these bodies. [96483] awarding the contract for court translation services to that company; [96309] Mr Djanogly: On 10 August 2010 and 7 April 2011 (5) how many and what proportion of criminal trials departmental officials held meetings on the draft required the presence of a translator in the last year; Defamation Bill with media stakeholders, including the [96481] Society of Editors and Media Lawyers Association. The Secretary of State spoke at the Society of Editors’ (6) pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for annual conference in November 2011. In addition, there Tooting of 13 October 2011, Official Report, columns has been some correspondence between the Department 534-6W and the answer to the hon. Member for and the Society of Editors and the Media Lawyers Stoke-on-Trent South of 20 December 2011, Official Association. I have placed copies of the relevant Report, column 1135W, which six organisations were correspondence in the Library. invited to give outline solutions for the Commercial Framework Agreement to deliver language services in Translation Services the criminal justice system; and which organisations were invited to submit detailed solutions. [97230] Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what discussions (a) Ministers and (b) civil Mr Blunt: The information is as follows: servants have had with the European Commission on Directive 2010/64/EU; whether the United Kingdom (1) The estimated annual spend across the justice has notified the European Commission of a wish to sector is in the region of £60 million. This was calculated participate in the adoption and application of this using sample data provide by justice organisations. Savings Directive; when the UK plans to transpose the were modelled using detailed sample data from the Directive fully; what assessment has been made of the police, tribunals, courts and the Crown Prosecution compatibility of the Framework Agreement on Service comparing rates paid under previous arrangements translation services with the Directive; and whether against cost under the new arrangements. This provided Applied Language Solutions will be bound by the a figure in the region of £18 million savings across the Directive in its implementation of its contract for justice sector taking account those police forces which had initially expressed an interest in signing contracts outsourced translation services. [96310] under the framework agreement. Mr Djanogly: Directive 2010/64/EU on the right to (2) The precise annual cost of the contract will depend interpretation and translation in criminal proceedings on the number of interpreters required under the new was negotiated in the usual way within the ordinary system. Based on current patterns of demand we anticipate legislative procedure. This process involves a number of that once fully embedded the annual cost will be in the expert Working Groups where officials represent the region of £18 million (based on the current cost of UK to develop the text. It was also discussed by officials £30 million). The new contract will provide much greater at COREPER before coming to Ministers in a JHA transparency of the overall cost of interpretation and Council for agreement. There have been no specific translation. meetings between officials or Ministers and the European (3) The Ministry of Justice considered all the impacts Commission to discuss this directive outside this process. of the new delivery mechanism including conducting an The UK Government opted into the directive at the equality impact assessment. outset of negotiations and agreed to the final text at a (4) The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for JHA Council in October 2010. The directive has an Justice, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member implementation date of 27 October 2013, which is for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), has not had any discussions common to all member states bound by the directive. with the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media The UK will take steps to implement the measure fully and Sport, my right hon. Friend the Member for South by that time. Analysis of the options for implementation West Surrey (Mr Hunt) about the award of any contracts is under way and the Government will consider these in for language services for the Olympics. The Ministry of due course. The Framework Agreement with Applied Justice contract for language services was awarded to Language Solutions makes clear that provision of service Applied Language Solutions following a fair and open must be compliant with the requirements of any EU procurement process. measures on interpretation or translation. (5) This information is not available. Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for (6) The six organisations invited to submit an outline Justice (1) pursuant to the written ministerial statement solutions were: of 5 July 2011, Official Report, columns 86-7WS, on Applied Language Solutions; Language Line Services; interpretation and translation services how the figure The Big Word; of £18 million was calculated; [96317] (2) what estimate he has made of the cost of his K International plc; Department’s adoption of the Framework Agreement Computacentre UK Ltd; and on translation services; [96307] Merrill Legal Solutions. 191W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 192W

The three organisations invited to submit a detailed Common Sugar Regime solution were: Applied Language Solutions; Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Language Line Services; and Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent The Big Word. representations she has received on the EU sugar regime; and if she will make a statement. [96004] Young Offenders: Sports Mr Paice: The Secretary of State for Environment, Damian Collins: To ask the Secretary of State for Food and Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Justice (1) what recent guidelines his Department issues Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman), and I have met on the provision of sporting activities for young adult with, or received correspondence from, a wide range male prisoners aged between 18 and 21; and if he will of sugar stakeholder interests in recent months. These make a statement; [97215] include the National Farmers Union, AB Sugar, (2) what recent guidelines his Department has issued Tate and Lyle Sugars, representatives of the African, on the provision of sporting activities in young Caribbean and Pacific (ACP) and Least Developed offender institutions; and if he will make a statement. Countries (LDC) groupings of nations, the United [97216] Kingdom Industrial Sugar Users Group, the Food and Drink Federation, representatives of several Mr Blunt: The National Offender Management manufacturing companies in the UK food and drink Service (NOMS) has responsibility for providing sector and a number of individual sugar beet growers. instructions to all prisons on the provision of Physical All of these have expressed views on the current Education activities for prisoners including young adult management and potential reform of the EU sugar male prisoners. regime which will be taken into account within the UK The most recent guidelines are contained within Prison position as the reform negotiations unfold. Service Instruction 58/2011, Physical Education (PE) for Prisoners which became effective from 1 October Dogs: Breeding 2011. The PSI contains various specifications that Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for prisons are expected to meet, specifically that all Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if her prisoners will have access to remedial PE activity. Department will consider revising the breeding The ultimate responsibility lies with the governing regulations for dogs to reduce the practice of (a) governor for determining and publishing PE activities puppy farming and (b) irresponsible breeding. [96279] that are both suitable for their population and prison environment. Mr Paice: There are no plans to review existing laws on dog breeding. However, in response to concerns over the health and welfare of pedigree dogs, an independent Dog Advisory Council was set up ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS in 2010, under the chairmanship of Professor Sheila Agriculture: Regulation Crispin. The Council works with key dog interest groups such as the Kennel Club and Dogs Trust to try and tackle problems associated with genetic defects in David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for pedigree dogs. The Government will of course consider Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she is any recommendations that the Dog Advisory Council taking to reduce the burden of regulation on farmers; make. and what estimate she has made of the cost to industry of such regulation. [96871] Dogs: Electric Shock Equipment Mr Paice: We set up the Farming Regulation Task Force in July 2010 to carry out an independent review. Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for It reported to Government in May 2011 and recommended Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent over 200 ways of reducing unnecessary “red tape” and assessment she has made of her Department’s research reducing regulatory burdens on farmers and food project on the implications for the welfare of dogs of processors. The Government published their full response electric shock collars. [97188] to the Task Force on 21 February: http://www.defra.gov.uk/food-farm/farm-manage/farm- Mr Paice: We expect to publish the findings of the regulation/ research into the effects of electronic training devices We have accepted 159 of the Task Force’s on dogs in spring. It is not possible to say at this stage recommendations and are considering what could be when an assessment will be made, as we do not have the possible on a further 31. The Food Standards Agency final research findings. also published an update on 18 recommendations directed to them. Farmers: Income We published an initial assessment of the costs and benefits of all our regulation in ‘The Costs and Benefits Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for of DEFRA’s Regulatory Stock’ in August 2011: Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proportion http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/2011/08/16/pb13623- of farmers earned incomes less than the minimum defra-regulatory-stock/ wage in each of the last five years. [96823] 193W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 194W

Mr Paice: The following table shows the estimate of Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for the proportion of farmers whose returns from the operation Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she is of their farm business was equivalent to less than the taking to increase the sustainability of food (a) adult minimum wage for each of the last five years for productivity and (b) security. [96768] which data are available1. 1 This is based on farm business income per unpaid worker Mr Paice: The Government have placed the need for (full-time equivalent) and may include individuals below the age growth and productivity in the agri-food sector at the threshold for the adult minimum wage rate. Farm business income heart of DEFRA’s business plan. Our aim is to enhance represents the financial return to all unpaid labour (farmers and the competitiveness and resilience of the whole food spouses, non-principal partners and directors and their spouses chain and to secure an environmentally sustainable and and family workers) and on all their capital invested in the farm healthy supply of food, and this aim is embedded business, including land and buildings. It is the relatively small difference between two large numbers (output and input costs). within all our policy work. Therefore small changes in either of these two numbers can have a The Green Food Project is looking at the challenge of substantial impact on farm business income and wide fluctuations how we can increase food production in England, whilst from year to year are not unusual. simultaneously enhancing the environment, and how we might reconcile any tensions that this challenge Proportion of farmers earning incomes less March to February each year than the minimum wage1 (%) raises. The Government are investing about £400 million per 2006-07 43 annum on research including up to £90 million over five 2007-08 34 years for collaborative research and development with 2008-09 31 industry, to stimulate technological innovation in areas 2009-10 35 such as crop productivity, sustainable livestock production, 2010-11 31 waste reduction and management, and greenhouse gas 1 Based on the adult minimum wage rate adjusted for March to February years/ Source: reduction. Government funders, industry and third sector Farm Business Survey, England are working together to through the Government Chief Scientists’ Food Research Partnership and the Global Food Supply Food Security programme to address these challenges through coordinated multi-disciplinary research. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for This Government are committed to ensuring the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what funding UK’s food security in both the short and long term. her Department provided to local food chain initiatives Last year the Government’s Chief Scientific Advisor in each of the last five years. [96204] Sir John Beddington produced a Foresight report “The Future of Food and Farming: challenges and choices Mr Paice: DEFRA support for local food chain for global sustainability”. This report looks at how the initiatives in England over the last five years has come UK can respond to challenges such as population growth mainly from the Rural Development Programme for and climate change along with other pressures on the England (RDPE). During this period this funding has food system and challenges governments worldwide to supported initiatives including, support for local food take action. marketing linked to tourism activity, individual food DEFRA and DFID have signed up to a Foresight producers and retail outlets, food hubs and farmers’ action plan to address the challenges on food security markets. Support will continue to be available through set out in the report. You can access DEFRA’s Foresight the new RDPE nationally consistent schemes. action plan and the Foresight report at the following DEFRA does not record spend on local food chain website: initiatives specifically. However, the following table shows http://www.bis.gov.uk/foresight/our-work/projects/published- funding under the budget heading of ’adding value to projects/global-food-and-farming-futures/reports-and- agricultural and forestry products’, the measure of the publications RDPE which covers the majority of the funded actions Food security cannot be delivered by focusing on that benefit food chain activity. self-sufficiency. International trade has an important role in providing food security and we are seeking to £ million support our industry in accessing and maximising 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 opportunities within export markets. That is why this Spend 4.320 5.775 15.567 20.398 13.698 Government recently published the UK Export Action Committed 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 8.911 Plan. This is the result of Government working closely Total 4.320 5.775 15.567 20.398 22.610 with industry to boost exports, promote innovation and encourage further growth, particularly among small In addition, I know that across the country there are and medium-sized enterprises. a range of local food groups of different sizes and membership emerging, often bringing together growers, Forestry Commission Wales processors and small food businesses. We welcome the development of these groups and the many benefits Glyn Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for they can bring to producers and the local community, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent particularly to support local growth, but recognise that estimate she has made of (a) the cost of a withdrawal with the recent changes to the regional tier and closure of Forestry Commission Wales from Forestry of RDAs, it is for local communities and Local Economic Commission Great Britain and (b) the costs of any Partnerships to decide where and how initiatives of this such withdrawal that will be incurred in (i) Wales, (ii) nature develop. England and (iii) Scotland. [95991] 195W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 196W

Mr Paice: The Welsh Government have recently Horticulture: Finance announced their intention to form a single environmental body. This is a matter for the Welsh Government, but Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State for we will be looking to ensure that there is an orderly Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much transfer of work, and that the Welsh Government fund funding was provided to (a) the HortLINK all costs associated with the change, the details of which programme from (i) her Department and (ii) other have still to be determined. sources and (b) research and development into ornamental horticulture under the HortLINK Forests: Dorset programme in each year from 1997 to 2009. [97079] Mr Paice: Funding to the HortLINK programme Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for between 1997 and 2009 is shown as follows: Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when negotiations commenced between Dorset County £ Council and the Forestry Commission into the disposal Approximate of a lease of land at Cannon Hill, Ferndown, Dorset; DEFRA contribution from other when she expects those negotiations to be concluded; contribution funders and whether any disposal of Cannon Hill plantation by 1997-98 107,437 140,000 the Forestry Commission is subject to Ministerial 1998-99 550,608 700,000 [96941] approval. 1999-2000 1,096,750 1,500,000 2000-01 1,821,516 2,300,000 Mr Paice: No negotiations have taken place between 2001-02 1,340,530 1,800,000 the Forestry Commission and Dorset county council on 2002-03 853,284 1,300,000 the sale or lease of Uddens (Cannon Hill) Plantation, 2003-04 759,186 1,200,000 although there have been discussions about the suitability of the land for a Gypsy or Traveller site. Any disposal of 2004-05 701,225 1,000,000 Public Forest Estate would ultimately need to be approved 2005-06 865,192 1,200,000 by the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and 2006-07 1,093,642 1,600,000 Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for 2007-08 1,310,899 1,700,000 Meriden (Mrs Spelman). However, we have not yet 2008-09 1,465,245 1,600,000 reached that stage of the process. 2009-10 1,268,773 2,000,000 Research and development on ornamental horticulture Horse Passports funded through the HortLINK programme between 1997 and 2009 is shown as follow: Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many £ prosecutions there have been for the offence of a horse Approximate owner not having a valid horse passport in each of the DEFRA contribution from other contribution funders last three years. [92512] 1997-98 48,810 53,000 Mr Paice: Records held on the Animal Health and 1998-99 119,500 130,000 Welfare Management and Enforcement System (AMES) 1999-2000 348,201 390,000 show that in the last three calendar years, the number of 2000-01 344,669 390,000 prosecutions in England were as follows: 2001-02 298,110 340,000 2002-03 163,275 190,000 Appeal 2003-04 60,500 61,000 Subject upheld- Calendar Prosecution Conviction Charges to conviction 2004-05 156,043 120,000 year initiated achieved withdrawn Appeal stands 2005-06 301,462 230,000

2009 0 0 0 0 0 2006-07 318,236 310,000 2010 3 2 1 0 0 2007-08 418,314 410,000 2011 1 0 1 0 0 2008-09 405,026 390,000 2009-10 260,308 250,000 The 2011 figures show one prosecution initiated. This Source: figure corrects that given in my reply of 15 November DEFRA figures: OMNICOM. Contributions from other funders are 2011, Official Report, column 737W,to the hon. Member estimated from the costs agreed at the issue of each grant, split by financial year in proportion to DEFRA expenditure. for York Outer (Julian Sturdy), which indicated that three prosecutions had been initiated. The figures in the Other funders include the Scottish Government, above table relate to England only whereas the figures the devolved Administrations, the Biotechnology and given in my previous answer were for England and Biological Sciences Research Council, Levy Bodies Wales. and other industry contributions (cash and in-kind). The AMES database records enforcement activity Livestock: Antibiotics related to a registered holding that has been issued a Country Parish Holding number. Data relating to other Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for premises, roadside checks of transporters, or other locations, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what guidelines or by bodies other than those local authorities that her Department issues on pre-emptive antibiotic use in upload data to AMES, are not held. livestock. [96202] 197W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 198W

Mr Paice: The greater majority of antibiotics authorised Departmental Pay for use in the UK are for the treatment of disease and it is down to the discretion of the prescribing veterinary Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for surgeon to decide if there is a need to use to use an Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many antibiotic to prevent a disease. officials in (a) his Department and (b) the non- departmental public bodies for which his Department Nevertheless, the routine use of antibiotics to prevent is responsible are paid (i) £100,000 and (ii) £142,500 or disease is not regarded as responsible use of these more per annum. [97034] medicines. Accordingly, the Government have published a code of practice on the responsible use of medicines John Penrose: There are currently five officials in this on the farm and a leaflet on antimicrobials on the Department paid £100,000 or more per annum, and Veterinary Medicines Directorate’s website. The three paid £142,500 or more per annum. Remuneration Government also work closely with the Responsible details for officials who earn more than £142,500 are Use of Medicines in Agriculture (RUMA) Alliance, disclosed annually in our consolidated, resource accounts. which has produced guidance on responsible use of The Department does not collate this information for antibiotics for different livestock sectors all of which its arm’s length bodies. Accordingly, I have asked their can be found on the RUMA website. Furthermore, the chief executives to write to the hon. Member for Leeds British Veterinary Association (BVA) has produced a North East. Copies of the replies will be placed in the poster on the responsible use of antimicrobials for Libraries of both Houses. veterinary practices. Licensing: Alcoholic Drinks Milk Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport if his Department Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment will consider placing community sports clubs in Band she has made of the likely effect of the EU Dairy A for the purposes of alcohol licensing. [95889] Package on the milk industry in (a) England, (b) James Brokenshire: I have been asked to reply on Wales, (c) Northern Ireland and (d) Scotland; and behalf of the Home Department. what outcome she sought in discussions with her EU The Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011 counterparts on the Dairy Package. [96337] (the 2011 Act) overhauls the Licensing Act 2003 (the Mr Paice: We have remained in close contact with 2003 Act) to rebalance it in favour of local communities. representatives from across the UK dairy industry and The 2011 Act contains measures to enable the Home with the devolved Administrations throughout the Secretary to prescribe, in regulations, that licensing fee negotiation of the EU Dairy Package. We believe the levels are determined by the licensing authority to which likely effects will be similar across the UK. they are payable, so as to recover the full costs of We sought only beneficial outcomes which would discharging their functions under the 2003 Act. We will enable the competitiveness of our industry and avoid consult before introducing the regulations governing any barriers to trade. We sought to minimise burdens the fee structure. We will consider whether there are on industry and Government and to avoid increased types of premises, such as community sports clubs, that EU spending. While we recognise that the package does should be subject to a separate fee category. not do everything quite as we would have liked, we Olympic Games 2012: Interpreters welcome those elements which can be beneficial to the supply chain and we are now able to support it. Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for In particular we believe that the package should Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment increase the bargaining power of producers if they form he has made of the (a) effectiveness and (b) usability recognised producer organisations which can then negotiate of his Department’s contract with Applied Language the sale to purchasers of their milk including the price. Solutions for court translation services; and if he will Although we will consult on whether to make contracts make a statement. [96537] for the sale of raw milk mandatory in line with the Mr Blunt: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the package if it is adopted, we do not expect that that Department for Justice. would have any significant effect in the UK. This is why There have been an unacceptable number of problems we strongly encourage the industry to adopt as soon as in the first few weeks of the contract and we have made possible its own voluntary code of practice which should clear to the contractor that this must be changed. The enable broader and quicker improvement to contractual contractor is taking urgent steps to improve performance relationships between producers and purchasers (milk including providing additional staff to deal with bookings, processors). further targeted recruitment of interpreters in key languages and improvements to the call handling and complaints process. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Olympic Games 2012: National Lottery Departmental Internet Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what public answer of 15 December 2011, Official Report, column services his Department delivers online only. [96891] 832W, on Olympic Games 2012: National Lottery, how the increase in Lottery funding available will be divided John Penrose: This Department does not deliver any amongst distributors; and if he will make a statement. public services online only. [96658] 199W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 200W

Mr Vaizey: Income raised for the national lottery WOMEN AND EQUALITIES good causes is divided among the distributors on the basis of shares approved by Parliament. Future income shall continue to be allocated on this basis. Action for Employment

Public Holidays Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Minister for Women and Equalities what contracts her Department has with Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for A4e; and what the (a) purpose and (b) value is of each Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what recent such contract. [97024] discussions he has had on the introduction of public bank holidays in (a) Wales on St David’s Day and (b) Mrs May: On 1 April 2011, the Government Equalities England on St George’s Day. [97178] Office became part of the Home Office. Information relating to the Government Equalities Office will be John Penrose: As part of the Government’s tourism included in the reply of the Minister for Immigration, policy, a pre-consultation on moving the May Day my hon. Friend the Member for Ashford (Damian bank holiday was launched last year. We are considering Green). the large number of responses received carefully and a decision will be made in due course. Beyond that, there have been no additional discussions specifically on other Equality and Human Rights Commission public bank holidays in Wales and England. Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Minister for Women Sports: Homophobia and Equalities what steps she is taking to establish (a) the reason and (b) who was responsible for the breach Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for of the 2009-10 pay remit at the Equality and Human Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what steps he is Rights Commission; and if she will make a statement. taking to reduce homophobia and transphobia in [96333] sports. [96809] Mrs May: The report of the Comptroller and Auditor Hugh Robertson: The Government launched Working General to the House on the Equality and Human for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Equality: Rights Commission’s 2009-10 accounts set out the reasons Moving Forward on 14 March 2011 which sets out the and responsibility for the breach of the pay remit. actions Government are taking to tackle LGB&T inequality, with nine actions for sport. My officials work closely with the Government Equalities Office on this important Equality and Human Rights Commission: Veredus agenda. The action plan is supported by the ‘Charter for Action’ which aims to tackle homophobia and transphobia in sport, to make sport a welcoming Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Minister for Women environment for LGBT people and challenge unacceptable and Equalities if she will place a copy of the contract behaviour. between the Equality and Human Rights Commission and Veredus Interim Management in respect of the The Charter has been signed by over 3,000 sports employment of an Interim Group Director of fans and sports organisations to date, and I am encouraged Communications in the Library; and if she will make a that the Football Association has just launched its first statement. [96296] ever LGBT action plan to address issues at the grassroots and communities level. The Secretary of State chaired a summit at No. 10 alongside the Prime Minister, the Mrs May [holding answer 27 February 2012]: It is Minister for Equalities, the hon. Member for Hornsey not appropriate to publish the details of an individual and Wood Green (Lynne Featherstone) and myself on contract as this contains third party information and 22 February 2012 with the football authorities, former personal data. players and campaign groups on discrimination in football, The Government continue to impress upon the EHRC which included discussions about their plans to eradicate the need for it to reduce its dependence on expensive homophobia and transphobia in the game. interim staff, whose numbers have fallen sharply in recent months. Television Human Trafficking Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport when he intends to make a decision on the licence renewal for Channel 3 Mr Bone: To ask the Minister for Women and in Scotland. [97210] Equalities if she will support a public debate on the annual report of the Human Trafficking Centre. Mr Vaizey: The Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, [96187] Media and Sport, my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Mr Hunt), is considering the options Damian Green [holding answer 23 February 2012]: for re-licensing Channels 3 and 5 across the UK alongside The UK Human Trafficking Centre is part of the the wider consideration of the public service broadcasting Serious Organised Crime Agency. It does not produce a landscape as part of the communications review and separate annual report. Many human trafficking debates will make a decision in due course. already occur within and outside Parliament. 201W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 202W

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Gregory Barker: There are currently no secondees working for the Department of Energy and Climate Building Regulations Change from the renewable energy sector.

Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what discussion officials Energy and Climate Change how many people have in his Department had with the Department for been seconded to his Department from the six largest Communities and Local Government on changes to energy suppliers. [96865] Part L of Building Regulations prior to the consultation on such changes. [96505] Gregory Barker: There are currently no people seconded to the Department of Energy and Climate Change from Gregory Barker [holding answer 27 February 2012]: the six largest energy suppliers. DECC officials meet regularly with their counterparts in the Department for Communities and Local Government Electric Vehicles and other Departments to discuss a range of issues. As has been the case with successive administrations, it is not the Government’s practice to provide details of Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy such meetings. and Climate Change if he will introduce a requirement for electric cars to make a noise to reduce the risk to Combined Heat and Power: Finance (a) vision impaired and (b) other pedestrians of such vehicles. [96767] Tristram Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what discussions (a) he Norman Baker [holding answer 27 February 2012]: I and (b) his officials have had with HM Treasury on the have been asked to reply on behalf of the Department effect on long-term support for combined heat and for Transport. power of the (i) removal of levy exemption certificates The Department for Transport is currently engaged and (ii) introduction of the carbon price floor. [97163] in discussions at the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe on recommendations for added sound from Gregory Barker: DECC Ministers and officials meet electric and electric hybrid vehicles. The Department regularly with their counterparts in HM Treasury to will be seeking to ensure that such vehicles can be discuss a range of issues. As has been the case with clearly heard and identified by visually impaired and successive Administrations, it is not the Government’s other road users in sufficient time, and that the use of practice to provide details of such meetings. bells, chimes, sirens, music or other sounds that “confuse the identification of a vehicle and/or its operation” is Departmental Internet prohibited. Regulations concerning vehicle construction are set Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for at EU level and a recent proposal from the European Energy and Climate Change what public services his Commission includes provisions to deal with added Department delivers online only. [96893] sound from electric and electric hybrid vehicles.

Gregory Barker: The following services are delivered Electricity solely online by the Department: Onshore and offshore well drilling consents; Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Permits for the use and discharge offshore of approved chemicals Energy and Climate Change with reference to page 25 for drilling, maintenance and production activities; of Planning our electric future: a White Paper for Environmental directions under the Offshore Petroleum Production secure, affordable and low-carbon electricity, what and Pipe-lines (Assessment of Environmental Effects) Regulations progress he has made towards reducing central 1999 (as amended); Government greenhouse gas emissions by 25 per cent.; Submission by industry of European emissions monitoring and by how much central Government greenhouse gas returns; emissions reduced in (a) 2010 and (b) 2011. [95829] Field production, flaring and venting consents; Notification of offshore decommissioning liabilities; Gregory Barker: Over the year commencing 14 May Overhead electricity line consents. 2010 the CO2 emissions of the central Government The following services are delivered solely online by office estate reduced by 13.8%, compared with the our sponsored bodies and partners: preceding 12 months. Combined heat and power site assessment tool (AEA); We do not yet have complete data for the year 2011-12. UK combined heat and power development map (AEA); It is intended to publish a report of the pan-Government Microgeneration certification scheme supplier certificates (MCS); picture later this year. Renewable obligation order feed-in tariff accreditation (Ofgem). Energy: Housing Departmental Secondment Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has Energy and Climate Change how many people have made of progress by the Local Energy Assessment been seconded to his Department from the renewable Fund in supporting community projects which energy sector. [96864] promote domestic energy efficiency. [97176] 203W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 204W

Gregory Barker: The second tranche of winning LEAF Green Deal Scheme (Local Action Assessment Fund) projects was announced on 6 February. It is therefore too soon to assess progress Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for in any detail. Work on winning projects will continue to Energy and Climate Change if he will place in the the end of the financial year. Library the guidelines, briefings and policy option The Department is using the bids to create baselines documents issued to stakeholders by the Green Deal against which our evaluation of LEAF will be done, Code of Practice team on warranties for measures later this year when projects are completed. fitted as part of the Green Deal. [96506] There is an online facility for LEAF winning communities to enter updates on their projects on the interactive Gregory Barker [holding answer 27 February 2012]: LEAF map. The LEAF map can be accessed at: In light of responses received from the Green Deal consultation, we are currently reviewing the policy on http://ceo.decc.gov.uk what warranties should be provided as part of a Green Deal plan. A simple discussion paper was written and Energy: Meters sent to potential Green Deal providers and other industry experts to provide an early indication of options suggested Peter Aldous: To ask the Secretary of State for by stakeholders. The paper does not form an official Energy and Climate Change what steps he is taking to Government response to the consultation but can be ensure that any lack of consumer engagement does not found at the following link: adversely affect the timetable for the smart meter http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/tackling-climate- rollout. [97195] change/green-deal/4459-green-deal-provider-warranty- proposals-draft-for-.pdf

Charles Hendry: Timely and effective consumer Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for engagement will be vital to ensure that consumers Energy and Climate Change what consultancy work his benefit from smart meters. The Smart Meters Department has commissioned related to the Green Implementation Programme has been working on the Deal and Energy Company Obligation; and when he development of a strategy for consumer engagement expects the outcomes of such work to be published. and we will publish a consultation on the strategy in [96547] spring, which will include proposals on the objectives and activities for consumer engagement. Among these Gregory Barker: We have commissioned advice from will be activities which need to be undertaken between Grant Thornton, Ipsos Mori, Quadrangle, Deloitte LLP, now and the start of mass rollout to help ensure that PricewaterhouseCoopers and Ernst and Young. This suppliers can gain access to domestic properties for the advice was for DECC’s own use in the policy making installation of smart meters. process and programme management and did not produce reports which were intended for publication. Deloitte Energy: Planning Permission also produced two reports on Green Deal finance and accounting for external use which have been published: Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for Green Deal Finance: Public sector consideration for the Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of Green Deal 20 February 2012, Official Report, column 476W, on http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/tackling/green_deal/ energy: planning permission, for what reasons the gd_industry/gd_la/gd_la.aspx Government does not believe that the Secretary of Green Deal Finance: Accounting for the Green Deal in State is the appropriate decision-maker for major Energy Suppliers energy infrastructure in Scotland and Northern http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/tackling/green_deal/ Ireland. [96995] gd_industry/energy_compani/energy_compani.aspx Grant Thornton were commissioned to carry out a Gregory Barker: The major infrastructure planning fraud risk review of the Green Deal and Energy Company regimes are different in England, Scotland, Wales and Obligation and present internal recommendations to Northern Ireland for historical reasons and reflect the DECC to ensure fraud is minimised in the design of each nation’s devolution settlement. The Planning both programmes. Act 2008 and Localism Act 2011, which broadly cover We also commissioned two pieces of work in relation England and Wales introduced the current major to consumer research. Both of these were published infrastructure planning regime. These changes were alongside the Green Deal and ECO Consultation devolution neutral and did not make any significant Document. changes to the division of responsibility between the Consumer needs and wants for the Green Deal local and national consenting authorities. Qualitative research exploring the consumer response Northern Ireland operates a separate electricity to the Green Deal proposition among homeowners and network and market, which it shares with the Republic small businesses of Ireland. The electricity networks infrastructure in http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/consultation/green- England and Wales have a much greater degree of deal/3505-green-deal-consumer-needs-wants.pdf connectivity than that for England and Scotland, particularly at 132kV. This is due primarily to Green Deal and the Private Rented Sector geographic factors: the network in Scotland tends to Consumer research among tenants and landlords be focused on the central belt around Edinburgh and http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/consultation/green- Glasgow. deal/3506-green-deal-consumer-research-prs.pdf 205W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 206W

Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Gregory Barker: Ofgem published their estimate of Energy and Climate Change what key milestones his measures installed under the Community Energy Saving Department has set to monitor progress towards the Scheme (CESP) in September 2011, this indicated that launch of the Green Deal. [96548] 6,660 solid wall measures (internal and external) had been installed under CESP up to June 2011. Data for Gregory Barker: The Government published draft the period up to the end of 2011 will be published in secondary legislation alongside their consultation on March this year. 23 November 2011 (available from the DECC website). The CESP impact assessment estimated that around Subject to parliamentary approval, we expect to have 42,000 solid wall measures would be installed under the final legislation on the statute book by the summer CESP by the end of the scheme in December 2012. recess. The expected levels of solid wall insulation installation The Green Deal is a market driven mechanism and under Green Deal and ECO are in the process of being the Department is working closely with a wide range of updated. The following figures were published in the stakeholders (including energy suppliers, financiers and consultation impact assessment in November 2011: (i) potential Green Deal providers, assessors and installers) 149,822 in 2013, (ii) 181,133 in 2014, and (iii) 45,964 in to ensure that the framework needed for Green Deals to Q1 of 2015 (up until the end of the initial ECO period happen is put in place by autumn 2012. in March 2015). These figures did not consider supply chain constraints and updated figures will be published Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for in the final stage impact assessment due for publication Energy and Climate Change what consideration he has this spring. given to data-sharing between the Government and energy suppliers as a means of identifying and Nuclear Power Stations targeting households to be assisted by the Green Deal. [96855] Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change if he will consider visiting Gregory Barker: The Department, with the Department the Ironbridge Power Station in Shropshire in 2012 for for Communities and Local Government (DCLG), has the purpose of meeting workers and management to considered the opportunities available to share information discuss progress in reducing carbon dioxide emissions to enable targeting of the Green Deal. From April, at this facility. [96271] DCLG expects to make energy efficiency information publicly available from the Register of Energy Performance Gregory Barker: Subject to diary commitments a Certificates in England and Wales. The information will DECC Minister would be happy to visit Ironbridge also be available in bulk to certain authorised users, Power Station when in the region. We are aware of such as those certified under the Green Deal framework. plans to convert one unit at the station from coal to DCLG have published a Privacy Impact Assessment biomass. which sets out the safeguards that will be put in place to Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs protect the privacy of individuals and ensure they can opt out of having their data made available in this way. Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Housing: Insulation Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the oral answer of 9 February 2012, Official Report, column Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for 473, on feed-in tariffs, what the evidential basis is for Energy and Climate Change what policies his the statement that there has been a 45 per cent. Department has put in place to realise the reduction in estimated installation costs since 2009. Government’s goal to insulate all lofts and cavities by [96352] 2020. [96546] Gregory Barker: DECC’s latest evidence on falls in Gregory Barker: The Government’s Carbon Plan sets solar photovoltaic (PV) costs is set out in the draft out our overall ambition to reduce emissions from impact assessment supporting the current consultation domestic and commercial buildings. The Green Deal on solar PV cost control, and is available to view at: will be launched later this year to help drive energy www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/Consultations/fits-review/4320- efficiency in buildings. Although Government have not feedin-tariffs-review-phase-2a-draft-impact-asses.pdf set a formal sub-target for any individual measures, loft and wall insulation will be central, including completing Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for practicable lofts and cavities by 2020 and supporting Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the oral solid wall insulation through the Energy Company answer of 9 February 2012, Official Report, column Obligation. 473, on feed-in tariffs, how many solar PV installations (a) were planned under the last administration and Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) are projected to take place by 2015. [96354] Energy and Climate Change how many solid wall insulation installations there were under the Gregory Barker: Modelling undertaken prior to the Community Energy Saving Programme in (a) 2009, launch of the FITs scheme projected that there would (b) 2010 and (c) 2011; how many such installations he be approximately 310,000 solar photovoltaic (PV) expects under this programme in 2012; and how many installations under FITs by April 2015. Given uptake to he expects there to be under the Green Deal and date and under the central scenario for future uptake set Energy Company Obligation in (i) 2013, (ii) 2014 and out in the impact assessment accompanying the current (iii) 2015. [96549] consultation on solar PV, see: 207W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 208W

www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/Consultations/fits-review/4320- Gregory Barker: Under the central deployment scenario feedin-tariffs-review-phase-2a-draft-impact-asses.pdf set out in the Impact Assessment accompanying the we estimate that there could be approximately 930,000 current consultation on solar photovoltaic (PV) cost solar PV installations by April 2015. control: Estimates of future solar PV growth are extremely http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/Consultations/fits-review/ uncertain, and depend on a number of assumptions 4320-feedin-tariffs-review-phase-2a-draft-impact-asses.pdf such as future PV costs, and the growth of the PV we estimate that there could be approximately 22 GW market. DECC is continuously reviewing its estimates of solar PV by 2020 in the central scenario. The assumptions in the light of the latest evidence, and will provide behind this estimate are set out in the Impact Assessment. updated assessments for the final impact assessment Estimates of future solar PV growth are extremely published alongside the Government response to the uncertain, and depend on a number of assumptions current consultation. such as future PV costs, and the growth of the PV market. Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the oral Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for answer of 9 February 2012, Official Report, column Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the oral 474, on feed-in tariffs, what the current installed answer of 9 February 2012, Official Report, column capacity of solar power is; and what forecast his 478, on feed-in tariffs, what the evidential basis is for Department has made of the solar capacity expected to the statement that the cost to consumers will be be installed by (a) 2013, (b) 2014, (c) 2015, (d) 2016, £1.5 billion if the Government loses its appeal to the (e) 2017, (f) 2018, (g) 2019 and (h) 2020. [96356] Supreme Court. [96359]

Gregory Barker: The Department publishes the number Gregory Barker: I refer the right hon. Member to the and installed capacity of installations supported by answer I gave on 20 February 2012, Official Report, FITs on a monthly basis. These statistics are available column 479W,to the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion at: (Caroline Lucas). http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/energy_stats/ source/fits/fits.aspx Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for DECC’s estimate of solar PV capacity estimated to Energy and Climate Change with reference to the come forward from 2012-13 to 2020-21 under our proposals Impact Assessment, Comprehensive Review Phase 2A is set out in the following table. This represents the consultation on feed-in tariffs for solar PV, what central growth scenario that was modelled for the impact forecast his Department has made of the number of assessment supporting the current consultation on solar properties that (a) have an energy efficiency rating of PV cost control see: Level D or higher and (b) are expected to have an http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/Consultations/fits-review/ energy efficiency rating of Level D by (i) 2012-13, (ii) 4320-feedin-tariffs-review-phase-2a-draft-impact-asses.pdf 2013-14, (iii) 2014-15 and (iv) 2015-16. [96362]

Mw, rounded capacity (Central Gregory Barker: The Impact Assessment supporting Scenario) the Government’s response to the consultation on Feed-in 2012-13 1,800 Tariffs for solar photovoltaics refers to estimates based 2013-14 2,700 on the 2009 English Household Survey dwelling sample 2014-15 4,300 data which suggest that the proportion of houses currently 2015-16 6,200 at or above Band D is just under 50% (or approximately 2016-17 8,500 11.3 million dwellings), while slightly more non-domestic 2017-18 11,000 buildings were at this level. 2018-19 14,000 Although the Department has not conducted analysis 2019-20 18,000 specifically on level E-G properties getting to a level of 2020-21 22,000 D, our analysis shows that through the uptake of The figures in the table give the central assumption forthcoming Green Deal finance an average of 60,000 on possible PV deployment levels if costs fall as rapidly households in bands D-G could be brought up to an as forecast in the independent analysis commissioned EPC rating of above D each year between 2013 and for DECC. The impact assessment sets out the considerable 2022. uncertainty surrounding these PV costs and learning rates assumptions, and sets out the wide range of potential Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy deployment by 2020 under high and low PV cost and Climate Change what estimate he has made of assumptions. It is important to note that any deployment projected expenditure on feed-in tariffs within the of PV at large scale would also depend on addressing spending envelope in each year to 2015. [96615] issues around distribution and transmission network costs. Gregory Barker [holding answer 27 February 2012]: DECC’s estimates of projected expenditure versus the Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for FITs budget for the spending review period under our Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the oral central scenario are set out in Annex A of the impact answer of 9 February 2012, Official Report, column assessment supporting the current consultation on solar 474, on feed-in tariffs, what the evidential basis is for PV cost control: the statement that up to 20GW of solar power could be www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/Consultations/fits-review/4320- installed in the UK by 2020. [96357] feedin-tariffs-review-phase-2a-draft-impact-asses.pdf 209W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 210W

Estimates of future scheme costs are extremely uncertain, column 577W, how many homes qualified for the and depend on a number of assumptions such as future affordable homes premium in years 1 and 2, in each technology costs, and market growth. DECC is continuously local authority area in England. [R] [96680] reviewing its estimates in the light of the latest evidence, and will provide updated assessments for the final impact Grant Shapps [holding answer 27 February 2012]: A assessment published alongside the Government response copy of the table giving the figures for year 2 has been to the current consultation. placed in the Library of the House. Severn Water: Environment Protection The first affordable homes premium will be paid as part of the year 2 new homes bonus final allocation. Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for This is paid in respect of affordable homes completed Energy and Climate Change if he will visit the new between April 2010 and April 2011. This is because the Severn Water headquarters in Shrewsbury to see the affordable homes data are collected on an April to April construction methods ensuring an environmentally basis, but not available until the following October. friendly carbon neutral impact. [96265] Data for the main grant are collected October to October and available by the end of October. Gregory Barker: I welcome the news that Severn Trent Water has invested in its flagship headquarters, A total of £21.2 million affordable housing premium which demonstrates a strong commitment to saving energy has been allocated for year 2 in respect of 60,690 gross and building a green future. It provides an encouraging affordable units, of which 60,643 were affordable housing exemplar for other UK businesses, and I wish them well and 47 were affordable Traveller pitches. with the project. I would be happy to consider an Affordable Housing: Bexley invitation to the building when next in the region. Solar Power Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many new Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for units of affordable housing in the London Borough of Energy and Climate Change what the average level of Bexley were (a) one bedroom, (b) two bedroom, (c) income received was from the feed-in tariff by three bedroom and (d) four or more bedroom (i) flats households with domestic solar PV installations in and (ii) houses in each of the last five years. [96726] 2010-11. [95622] Gregory Barker: For the 18,073 domestic (<4kW) Andrew Stunell: The following table provides information installations in the 2010-11 period, Ofgem estimate that on new build affordable housing completions for the total generation payments of £5,919,525.48 and export London borough of Bexley through the Homes and payments of £209,752.80 were made. These figures are Communities Agency’s National Affordable Housing based on the total number of installations registered Programme and previous programme over the five years over the period 1 April 2010 to 31 March2011. 2006-07 to 2010-11. Ofgem does not, and is not required to, collect data Number of new build completions of affordable housing in the London borough on individual payments under the Feed-in Tariffs scheme. of Bexley, by type of accommodation and number of bedrooms, 2006-10 Flat House Number of bedrooms: Number of bedrooms: WALES 12342345Total Action for Employment 2006-07 20 63 0004140101 2007-08 48 148 1 0 11 35 2 0 245 Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008-09 0 6 0000006 Wales what contracts her Department has with A4e; 2009-10 19 66 35 0 3 15 6 0 144 and what the (a) purpose and (b) value is of each such 2010-11 46 78 34 16 0 12 28 4 218 contract. [97027] Source: Homes and Communities Agency Investment Management System Mr David Jones: The Wales Office holds no contracts The figures do not include affordable homes delivered with A4e. through acquisition and refurbishment schemes. The Departmental Pay table does not include affordable homes delivered by the local authority or through Section 106 without grant. Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for Coastal Communities Fund Wales how many officials in (a) her Department and (b) the non-departmental public bodies for which her Department is responsible are paid (i) £100,000 or Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for more and (ii) £142,500 or more per annum in the latest Communities and Local Government what methodology was used to determine the amount of period for which figures are available. [96910] funding for each part of the UK in the Coastal Mr David Jones: None. Communities Fund. [96005] Grant Shapps: I refer the hon. Member to the answer COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT I gave him on 21 February 2012, Official Report, column 778W. Affordable Housing Council Housing: West Midlands Mr Raynsford: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for answer of 25 February 2012, Official Report, Communities and Local Government what estimate he 211W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 212W has made of the number of new local authority homes the total cost of the business rate relief scheme was in to be built in (a) Redditch and (b) the West Midlands each year; [96277] in 2012, arising from changes to the housing revenue (2) how much was collected in business rates in each account. [97269] of the last five years for which figures are available. [96278] Andrew Stunell: Over time we expect local authorities to be in a position to self fund new housing and those Robert Neill: Details of the net yield from national authorities who have paid down debt in the past will be non-domestic rates collected in England between 2006-07 in a position to build new homes with or without and 2010-11, ie the amount collected after reliefs have further support. The circumstances will vary from authority been deducted but before an allowance for collection to authority and will depend on their own assessments costs and losses, are available in Table 1 of the Statistical of housing need. The self financing settlement is necessarily Release ‘National non-domestic rates collected by formulaic and it is not possible for central Government local authorities in England 2010-11’ that was published to estimate the scope for new homes at the individual on the DCLG website on 25 August 2011 and can be authority level. found at: http://www.communities.gov.uk/localgovernment/ Green Deal Scheme localregional/localgovernmentfinance/statistics/ nondomesticrates/outturn/ Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Table 1 also gives details of the type and value of Communities and Local Government what estimate he relief granted in each year; these figures are explained has made of the expected level of take-up for the Green more fully in Tables 3a to 3c in the same publication. Deal in (a) 2013, (b) 2014 and (c) 2015 as of result of the new requirements placed on consequential Planning Permission improvements under his proposals for new building regulation standards. [96550] Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Stunell: The consultation stage impact assessment Communities and Local Government what discussions published on 31 January 2012 alongside the wider paper officials in his Department had with officials in the proposing changes to Part L of the Building Regulations, Regulations Oversight Group of the Department for to introduce new requirements for consequential Business, Innovation and Skills prior to the improvements for existing buildings estimates that the introduction of the Non-domestic Self-funding potential number of properties to which this policy Software Validation Service. [96568] would relate would be 120,000 in 2013, 910,000 in 2014 and 970,000 in 2015. The Part L consultation states that Andrew Stunell [holding answer 27 February 2012]: Green Deal must be available as an option to meet the The introduction of the Non-domestic Self-Funding up-front cost of any consequential improvements, although Software Validation Service involved no regulatory changes building owners are free to choose another financing that would, in the normal course of events, require mechanism. discussion with the Regulations Oversight Group of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. Non-domestic Rates Since the introduction on 25 January, we have said that neither DCLG nor the operator of the Energy Performance Certificate Register will Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for introduce any changes for the purposes of complying Communities and Local Government what assessment with Part L of the Building Regulations or for generating he has made of the merits of introducing a two per Energy Performance Certificates and Display Energy cent. cap on business rates; and if he will make a Certificates that would trigger the need for software for statement. [96276] non-domestic buildings to undergo validation in 2012. The only exception to this is air conditioning software, Robert Neill: No assessment has been made of the which will need to undergo validation prior to the merits of introducing a 2% cap on business rates. statutory requirement to lodge air conditioning reports We are giving businesses the option of spreading the onto the non-domestic Energy Performance Certificate retail prices index increase for 2012-13 over the next Register coming into force in April. Air conditioning three years. Businesses will be able to defer payment of software providers were advised in October that central 60% of the retail prices index increase in their 2012-13 funding was no longer available for third party software rates bills until 2013-14 and 2014-15. This will give validation, and that alternative arrangements would be businesses flexibility to manage their rates bills in the introduced. current economic climate, help their cash flow, and give them time to adjust to the impact of inflation. Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for We have also extended the small business rate relief Communities and Local Government whether he holiday, effectively doubling small business rate relief carried out (a) a consultation exercise and (b) an throughout 2012-13, providing reliable financial help to impact assessment prior to the introduction of the small firms and small shops. Non-domestic Self-funding Software Validation Service. [96570] Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (1) how much Andrew Stunell [holding answer 27 February 2012]: was provided to businesses through the business rate The Department has held, and continues to hold, relief scheme in each of the last five years; and what discussions with industry partners about how best to 213W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 214W deliver, and maintain, the validation service for software co-ordinators will be provided to local authorities from developed by, and to understand the impact of any April 2012, so we would expect them to be in post soon changes on, commercial practices for assessing the energy after that. performance of non-domestic buildings. The changes to the Software Validation Service involved no regulatory Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for changes that would, in the normal course of events, Communities and Local Government how much of the require a formal consultation process or impact assessment £448 million allocated to the 120,000 families has been to be undertaken. allocated to date; and what expressions of interest he Since the introduction on 25 January, we have said has received from local authorities outside the areas of that neither DCLG nor the operator of the Energy the family support pilots in the creation of community Performance Certificate Register will introduce any budget schemes. [97285] changes for the purposes of complying with Part L of the Building Regulations or for generating Energy Grant Shapps: The £448 million will become available Performance Certificates and Display Energy from April 2012 to all upper tier local authorities. All of Certificates that would trigger the need for software for these authorities have accepted an offer of £20,000 non-domestic buildings to undergo validation in 2012. preparatory funding in this financial year for the The only exception to this is air conditioning software, programme, which is a strong indication of interest which will need to undergo validation prior to the across England. Further details on the arrangements statutory requirement to lodge air conditioning reports for the new programme, including the payment onto the non-domestic Energy Performance Certificate arrangements, will be announced shortly as they are Register coming into force in April. Air conditioning currently under development. software providers were advised in October that central Urban Areas: Planning Permission funding was no longer available for third party software validation, and that alternative arrangements would be introduced. Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what proportion Social Services: Disadvantaged of new retail floor space completed in each year since 2006 based on Valuation Office Agency data was in a Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for town centre. [96624] Communities and Local Government how many councils have allocated the 60 per cent. of funding to Robert Neill: This information is not held centrally. access the 40 per cent. matched funding from central Government to deal with troubled families. [97156] Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what proportion Grant Shapps: This information is not currently available. of new retail development, in terms of floor space, that Funding for the Troubled Families programme becomes has been granted planning permission since January available from 2012-13. However local authorities’ 2008 is in town centres. [96631] preparations for the Troubled Families programme are under way; every upper tier local authority has accepted Robert Neill: Information is not available centrally on an offer of £20,000 preparatory funding in this financial the proportion of new retail development granted planning year for the programme. permission in town centres.

Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many new Communities and Local Government how many family workers he has recruited to work with troubled appeals for major retail developments have been families; and with which councils they work. [97157] recovered for decision by him since January 2008; what those developments were; whether they were for town Grant Shapps: Recruitment of individual Troubled centre schemes or in out-of-centre locations; and what Families co-ordinators will be handled by upper tier the outcome was of each appeal. [96632] local authorities. Troubled Families co-ordinators will have a strategic role in local authorities to plan, develop Robert Neill: The Secretary of State has recovered 10 and co-ordinate services for troubled families and lever appeals for major retail development since January in resources from partners locally. Funding for these 2008. Details are shown in the following table:

Name of development Description of development Whether in a town centre Appeal outcome

Brielle Way, Sheerness, Kent Outline application for two retail warehouses Out of town Dismiss appeal

Brighton Marina, Brighton, Sussex Demolition of existing store, redevelopment Out of town Dismiss appeal to create larger store of 11,412 sq m with 2,025 sq m of other class Al-A5 uses and residential units

Station Road Backworth, North Tyneside 2,787sq m offices and two A1 units (10,387 Edge of centre Dismiss appeal sq m)

Greenwich Market, London Demolition of buildings and construction Out of town Allow appeal of hotel (C1), retail (Al-A5) and other uses 215W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 216W

Name of development Description of development Whether in a town centre Appeal outcome

Vesuvius Works, Worksop, Notts 6,500 sq m food store, offices, light industry, Edge of centre Dismiss appeal storage/distribution, hotel, restaurants and community facilities White City Way, Old Trafford, Greater A1 food store (9,036 sq m) and two A1 Out of town Dismiss appeal Manchester non-food stores (2,357 sq m) Ashton Gate Stadium, Wedlock Way, (Bristol) Redevelopment of football stadium for 12,852 Not yet known Not yet decided sq m A1 retail store (outline) (4.26 ha) Land to the west of Scotforth Road, Lancaster New food store (7,250 sq m), hotel/pub/ Not yet known Not yet decided restaurant, filling station, roundabout access Former Derbyshire Royal Infirmary. Derby Mixed use regeneration scheme comprising Not yet known Not yet decided 400 dwellings and 9,649 sq m A1, A3, A4 and B1 retail floor space (5,685 sq m) Former Bath Press Site, Bath Mixed use redevelopment comprising 6,300 Not yet known Not yet decided sq m of retail (Class Al), 4,580 sq m of creative work space and 2,830 sq m of offices

Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for STV Communities and Local Government if he will take steps (a) to assess the effectiveness of the Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Government’s ‘town centres first’ policy by monitoring Scotland what discussions he has had with the (i) the location of new planning consents for major Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and retail applications and (ii) completions of retail Sport on the production status of STV. [97208] developments and (b) to issue frequent and regular reports on the outcome of those assessments. [96648] David Mundell: The Secretary of State for Scotland, Robert Neill: The DCLG draft Statistics Plan in 2011 the right hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and confirmed that options would be considered for providing Selkirk (Michael Moore), and I are in contact with the statistics to monitor town centre policy. Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport, my right hon. Friend the Member for South The Government are committed to supporting town West Surrey (Mr Hunt), on a range of matters that are centres; the draft National Planning Policy Framework relevant to broadcasting in Scotland, including the digital clearly asks local authorities to recognise town centres infrastructure and local television. as the heart of their communities and pursue policies to support their viability and vitality. Television The Government’s response to the Portas Review will also outline proposals to support town centres and local Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for high streets. Scotland what discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Wind Power: Planning Permission Sport on the timing of the renewal of the Channel 3 licence in Scotland. [97209] Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government if he will David Mundell: The Secretary of State for Scotland, commission a review of planning policy statement 22 the right hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and on renewable energy. [96610] Selkirk (Michael Moore), and I are in contact with the Robert Neill: In our consultation on the draft National Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Planning Policy Framework we proposed cancelling Sport, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Planning Policy Statement 22: “Renewable Energy” West Surrey (Mr Hunt), on a range of matters of together with other policy documents which will be matters that are relevant to broadcasting in Scotland, replaced by the framework. We are committed to publishing including renewal of the Channel 3 Licence, the digital the final version of the framework by 31 March 2012. infrastructure and local television.

SCOTLAND TRANSPORT Devolution: Advocate-General for Scotland Air Travel Organisers’ Licence

Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent devolution issues the Advocate- Transport how many full-time equivalent staff in her General has considered. [96423] Department are working on reform of the Air Travel Organisers Licence. [96618] David Mundell: The hon. Member asked a similar question on 10 January 2012, Official Report, column Mrs Villiers [holding answer 27 February 2012]: Due 102W. to work practices it is difficult to be precise, but I Since 10 January 2012, the Advocate-General for estimate that there is the equivalent of up to two and a Scotland has received a total of 67 minutes notifying half full-time members of staff in the Department for him of devolution issues, all of which relate to criminal Transport working on reform of the Air Travel Organisers’ matters. Licensing scheme. 217W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 218W

Bus Services: Concessions The Department for Transport also provided £31 million of grant to TCAs in England in 2007-08 for the cost of Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for producing and issuing the England-wide bus passes to Transport what discussions she has had with all those eligible, of which a total of £2.171 million went ministerial colleagues on means-testing of pensioners’ to local authorities in the North East—this includes Tyne and Wear Integrated Transport Authority’s allocation bus passes. [96474] of £1.028 million. Norman Baker: We have no plans to introduce means Bus Services: Finance testing to assess eligibility for concessionary bus travel for older people. The right to free bus travel for both Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for older and disabled people is enshrined in primary legislation. Transport how much in (a) capital and (b) revenue her In the 2010 spending review, the Government stated Department will spend on (i) the Better Bus Fund, (ii) that they will protect the statutory entitlement for community transport and (iii) the Green Bus Fund in concessionary bus travel. each year of the current spending review period. [96757] Mr Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how many pensioners claimed free bus travel Norman Baker [holding answer 27 February 2012]: in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the Funds have been committed for 2011-12, as follows: North East and (d) England in each year since the (i) the Better Bus Areas Fund (£25 million Capital/£25 million concession’s inception. [97342] Revenue); (ii) community transport (£10 million Revenue); and Norman Baker: I refer the hon. Member to the written (iii) the Green Bus Fund (£20 million Capital). answer I gave him to his identical question on 14 September Decisions about the funding allocations for future 2011, Official Report, columns 1193-94W. years in the spend review period will be made at that appropriate time. Mr Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Senior Civil Servants Transport how much her Department spent on concessionary bus travel for pensioners in (a) Jarrow Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North East Transport how many senior civil servants left her and (d) the UK in each year since the scheme was Department and its public bodies in each month since introduced. [97343] May 2010; what their names are; what the rate of turnover of senior civil servants in her Department was Norman Baker: From 1 April 2008 to 31 March 2011, during this period; and if she will make a statement. the Department for Transport provided Special Grant [96241] funding to local authorities to cover the extra costs of the England-wide statutory off-peak bus travel concession Norman Baker: Since May 2010 77 senior civil servants for older and disabled people, which was introduced on have left the central Department, its seven Executive 1 April 2008. The Special Grant funding allocated to agencies and its public bodies. each travel concession authority (TCA) is shown in the The average rate of turnover of senior civil servants following table: in the central Department, its seven Executive agencies and its public bodies was 37.25% during this period. £ million TCA 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 The rate of turnover reflects the restructuring of the Department that took place for senior civil servants Tyne and Wear (including 5.375 5.502 5.670 during 2010-11. Jarrow and South Tyneside) The North East 10.315 10.706 11.903 Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency England 212.0 217.0 221.0 Paul Blomfield: To ask the Secretary of State for Concessionary travel is a devolved issue so the Transport what steps she took to ensure Transforming Department does not hold information about the funding DVLA Services consultation complied with the code of arrangements for travel concessions in Scotland, Wales practice on consultations. [97080] and Northern Ireland. In England, until 31 March 2011, the Department for Mike Penning: I refer the hon. Member to my answer Transport’s Special Grant funded a portion of the of 27 February 2012, Official Report, column 153W. statutory concession but the majority of funding was Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency: Enforcement provided by the Department for Communities and Local Government through Formula Grant. The previous Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for government decided that from 1 April 2011, all funding Transport what estimate she has made of the revenue should be through Formula Grant. generated by Area Enforcement DVLA enforcement Formula Grant is a block grant which is not ring-fenced, centres in the latest period for which figures are so local authorities are free to spend it on any services, available; and if she will make a statement. [97229] not just transport services, in order to meet their statutory obligations. It is not possible to identify how much Mike Penning: The information requested is not held Formula Grant has been allocated to a TCA for a in the format requested and would incur disproportionate particular service, such as concessionary travel. costs to gather. 219W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 220W

Electric Vehicles representatives from (a) cycling organisations, (b) haulage organisations and (c) motoring organisations Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for since May 2010. [97167] Transport how much funding has been allocated to the Mike Penning: My fellow parliamentary Under-Secretary Plugged-in-Places programme for the purpose of the of State for Transport, the hon. Member for Lewes establishment of plug-in vehicle recharging (Norman Baker), and I have frequently met with infrastructure across the UK in each year of the representatives from such organisations. comprehensive spending review period. [96621] Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Norman Baker [holding answer 27 February 2012]: Transport pursuant to the oral answer to the £30 million has been allocated to the Plugged-In Places Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport programme from April 2010 to March 2013, nominally of 15 September 2011, Official Report, column 1163, split into £10 million each financial year. The profile of on heavy goods vehicles, if she will set out the spend is dependant on draw down of the available funds evidential basis for his claim that, ‘We considered by the Plugged-In Places schemes. carefully whether longer semi-trailers posed a risk to cyclists in particular, and the risk is not there’; and if Fuels: Excise duties she will place a copy of any supporting evidence in the Library. [97289] Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what recent research her Department has Mike Penning: The research report by the Transport (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated on feebate Research Laboratory, TRL PPR526 (available on the schemes which provide a refund to buyers of new cars Department for Transport website) concluded that: for purchasing low-emission vehicles funded by “Overall it is considered likely that the effects of the measures taxation on high-emission vehicles. [95847] under consideration will be sufficiently small to make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to identify them in a reliable post-hoc Norman Baker: DFT has not commissioned or evaluated analysis after implementation or to have any measurable effect on any recent research on feebate schemes which provide a the overall long-term downward trend in HGV accident involvement rates.” refund to buyers of new cars for purchasing low-emission vehicles funded by taxation on high-emission vehicles, Rescue Services: Air Force this work would be the responsibility of HMT. The Government continue to support the uptake of Ultra Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Low Emission Vehicles through the provision of around Transport on how many occasions fixed wing top cover £300 million to support customer incentives like the search and rescue RAF aircraft were (a) requested by existing Plug-In Car Grant, which has recently been and (b) provided to the Maritime and Coastguard extended to include vans. Agency in each of the last five years; and where each incident took place. [96184] Large Goods Vehicles: Safety Mike Penning: The Maritime and Coastguard Agency Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for will request, if required, that the Aeronautical Rescue Transport what impact assessment her Department Coordination Centre at RAF Kinloss scramble the carried out prior to plans for the trial of longer most appropriate aircraft for a search and rescue mission. semi-trailers in respect of the potential effects on (a) The number of times a Nimrod has been scrambled in cyclists and (b) other vulnerable road users; and if she each of the last five years is as follows: will make a statement. [97165] Number Mike Penning: The Department’s revised Impact 2007 21 Assessment on the trial of longer semi-trailers took into account evidence submitted on the potential impact on 2008 29 vulnerable road users, including cyclists. 2009 13 2010 3 Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011 0 Transport if she will consider commissioning research This information is available on the Defence Analytical into the potential risks posed by longer semi-trailers to Services and Advice website cyclists and other vulnerable road users; and if she will www.dasa.mod.uk suspend the trial pending the outcome of that research. Details about the location of each of the incidents are [97166] available in the search and rescue annual reports, available Mike Penning: No. Thorough research has already at: been undertaken by the Transport Research Laboratory http://www.dasa.mod.uk/applications/newWeb/www/index. php?page=67&pubType=0&thiscontent=1500&date=2012- on the risk to all road users, including cyclists. This 02-22 indicates that there should be no detectable difference in safety between existing trailers and the proposed longer Rescue Services: Contracts trailers. Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport when she plans that the bidders for the Long Transport how many times the Parliamentary Under- Term Search and Rescue Helicopter contract will be Secretary of State for Transport has met down selected. [97004] 221W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 222W

Mike Penning: The down selection will take place Mike Penning: Tackling the disruption caused by very shortly. When it has taken place, details will be incidents on the road network is a key priority for this published on the DfT website. Government. As such, this Department is leading a joint initiative called CLEAR with the emergency services, Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Highways Agency and the Home Office to reduce the Transport which companies bid for the Long Term time taken to re-open motorways following an incident. Search and Rescue Helicopter contract; and which As part of this initiative we published a review and bidding lot or combination of bidding lots they bid for. action plan in May 2011. This action plan included a [97005] £3.14 million fund to assist police forces in purchasing 3D laser scanning technology to help speed up accident Mike Penning: A number of organisations have expressed investigation and reduce the length of time that roads an interest in this procurement competition. The DFT may need to be closed. will release information on which organisations are to On 29 December 2011 I announced the outcome of be invited to participate in the competitive dialogue awards from this fund. A total of £2.7 million was phase when the result of the pre-qualification evaluation awarded to 27 forces across the country, enabling 37 is announced. scanners to be purchased, which will start to be used from spring 2012. Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport when she plans that the (a) shortlisted Speed Limits bidder down selection, (b) final tender submission and (c) final contract award will be announced for the Lilian Greenwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Long Term Search and Rescue Helicopter contract. Transport what steps she plans to take to encourage [97006] more widespread use of 20 mph limits in communities for the purposes of enabling safer walking and cycling; Mike Penning: The down selection will take place and whether she plans to issue revised guidance on very shortly and a public announcement will be made at setting local speed limits. [97105] that time. The timetable for future stages of the procurement will be made clear to bidders when the Invitation to Norman Baker [holding answer 27 February 2012]: I Participate in Dialogue documentation is issued, but I refer the hon. Member to my answer of 12 January expect the final contract to be awarded early in 2013. 2012, Official Report, column 314. Ministers plan to issue revised guidance on setting local speed limits later Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for this year. Transport for what reason the contract length between bidding Lot 1 and Lot 2 in the Long Term Search and Transport: Expenditure Rescue Helicopter contract is different. [97007] Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for Mike Penning: The contract lengths have been designed Transport pursuant to the answer of 6 February 2012, to ensure the contracts provide value for money to the Official Report, column 39W, on transport: taxpayer. These contracts are similar in length to other expenditure, what methodology was used to calculate commercial helicopter contracts, for example in the oil the total identifiable expenditure figures in Table 6 and and gas industry. They also ensure the large and small Table 7; and whether this methodology took account of aircraft required under the different contracts retain a the benefits of expenditure in one region for other useful residual value after the contracts have expired, regions. [95814] and prevent DFT from taking long term risks on salary forecasts for SAR personnel. Norman Baker: The tables referred to were compiled Rescue Services: Scotland as a part of the Country and Regional Analysis carried out annually by HM Treasury across public authorities Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for and for which HM Treasury publishes guidance Transport how many of the (a) high risk, (b) very http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/cra_guidance_annexb.pdf high risk and (c) medium risk cells within the and Threshold Search and Operating Area are wholly in http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/cra_guidance_annexc.pdf Scottish territorial waters. [97008] HM Treasury looks across a number of years on expenditure to decide whether a funding line is large Mike Penning: Cells are not designated territorially enough to be allotted to reduce the reporting burden. within the UK search and rescue region. I refer the hon. Some items are considered non-identifiable. For example Member to page 10 of the UK Search and Rescue funding for the Maritime and Coastguard Agency is Helicopter Provision and Coverage Criteria Report 2001 usually considered to benefit the country as a whole and (updated 2006), where the classification of each cell in thus not identifiable. the UK SAR region can be seen: Departments are asked to consider who benefits from http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/ anatec_2006_update_to_coverage_report.doc the expenditure. This is done where it is straight forward but for some transport areas this can be difficult. For Roads: Accidents example the benefit of expenditure on a stretch of a major motorway can be difficult to assign to regions. Mr Burley: To ask the Secretary of State for Where it is not possible to assign benefits to regions, Transport what steps she is taking to reduce the length allocation is usually done by examining where the money of time that roads are closed after accidents. [96675] is spent. 223W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 224W

HOME DEPARTMENT Asylum

Ministers: Official Residences Richard Graham: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many failed asylum seekers left the country (a) voluntarily and (b) through Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for the enforced deportation in each of the last five years. Home Department which Ministers in her Department [96602] have the use of grace and favour homes. [96868] Damian Green: Deportations are a specific subset of Damian Green: Home Office Ministers do not have removals which are enforced either following a criminal the use of grace and favour homes. conviction or when it is judged that a person’s removal from the UK is conducive to the public good. The Animal Welfare: Standards deportation order prohibits the person returning to the UK until such time as it may be revoked. Most illegal Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for immigrants are removed under administrative or illegal the Home Department what assessment her entry powers from the UK rather than being deported. Department has made of the likely effects of Central management systems cannot accurately identify transposing the EU Directive 2010/63/EU on animal the numbers of enforced removals from the UK, from welfare standards into UK law. [96847] the number of voluntary departures after enforcement action had been initiated. James Brokenshire: European Directive 2010/63/EU It is also not possible to identify the stage in the on the protection of animals used for scientific purposes asylum process that the nationals of any country have must to be transposed into United Kingdom legislation reached at the time of their removal, including whether by 10 November 2012 and implemented from 1 January their claim has failed at that point and that they are 2013. We currently aim to table regulations to transpose failed asylum seekers, because those departing voluntarily the provisions of the Directive in May 2012. An impact can do so at any stage without notifying the UK Border assessment of the options for transposition is being Agency. prepared and will consider the effects of the transposition The following table shows the total number of asylum options on animal welfare standards as well as other cases removed (including those who have been deported) impacts. The impact assessment will be published in or departed voluntarily from the UK by type in each due course with the regulations. year from 2007 to 2011.

Removals and voluntary departures1, 2 of asylum cases, by type, January 2007 to December 2011 Number of departures 2007 2008 2009 20101 20113

Total asylum cases 13,705 12,874 11,636 10,394 8,869 Of which: Enforced removals and notified voluntary departures4, 8,761 7,848 6,897 6,656 6,384 5 Assisted Voluntary Returns6 2,866 2,658 2,983 2,698 2,003 Other voluntary departures7 2,078 2,368 1,756 1,040 482 1 Figures include dependants, 2 Removals and voluntary departures recorded on the system as of the dates on which the data extracts were taken. 3 Provisional figures. Figures will under record due to data cleansing and data matching exercises that take place after the extracts are taken. 4 Due to a reclassification of removal categories, figures include asylum removals performed by UK Border Agency Officers using in-country powers of removal and a small number of cases dealt with at juxtaposed controls. 5 Figures include people leaving under Facilitated Return Schemes. 6 People leaving under Assisted Voluntary Return Programmes run by Refugee Action (prior to April 2011, run by the International Organisation for Migration). May include some on-entry cases and some cases where enforcement action had been initiated. 7 People who it has been established left without informing the immigration authorities.

The Home Office publishes quarterly and annual Damian Green: As Rob Whiteman reported to the statistics within the Immigration Statistics release. A Home Affairs Select Committee on 22 December 2011; copy of the latest release, Immigration Statistics October the number of cases placed in the controlled archive has to December 2011, published on 23 February 2012, is reduced from an initial figure of 98,000 cases to 93,000 available from the Home Office Science, research and cases. statistics web pages at: Biometrics http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/science-research/research- statistics/migration/migration-statistics1/ Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the and will be placed in the Library of the House. Home Department whether she has made an estimate of the number of people who have biometric data Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for the stored in the UK. [96026] Home Department what recent estimate she has made of the number of legacy asylum cases that are archived Damian Green: The Identity and Passport Service due to lack of communication with the applicant. (IPS) does not keep records in the format requested. [96730] IPS holds biometric data in the form of facial photographs. 225W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 226W

These images are stored on file by IPS, printed in the As the United Kingdom has not implemented the Prüm passport book and, in newer passports, stored on the Decisions it has not exchanged any data with other EU chip in the passport book. There are currently approximately member states under their terms. 48.5 million UK passports in circulation. An exact figure cannot be given because lost and stolen passports Departmental ICT may not be replaced immediately. Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department pursuant to the answer of Civil Disorder 9 February 2012, Official Report, column 353W, on the internet, if her Department will make public any Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for decision made to (a) enhance existing capabilities the Home Department whether she has any plans to within law enforcement and (b) provide additional require police authorities to record crimes relating to resources for new capabilities. [96473] public disorder as rioting rather than as violent disorder for the purposes of enabling businesses to James Brokenshire: We will consider public claim compensation. [95020] announcements in due course, taking into account both public accountability and the need to protect the operational Nick Herbert [holding answer 21 February 2012]: integrity of capabilities. Under the Riot (Damages) Act 1886, police authorities Departmental Pay are responsible for assessing individual claims made to them, including whether the activities that took place Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for should be classed as a riot. This is based on the legal the Home Department how many officials in (a) her definition of a riot as set out in Section 1 of the Public Department and (b) the non-departmental public Order Act 1986. bodies for which her Department is responsible are paid (i) £100,000 and (ii) £142,500 or more per annum. Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for [97040] the Home Department (1) if she will assess the practice of recording rioting as violent disorder by Nottingham Damian Green: In line with the coalition Government’s Police Authority and Leicestershire Police Authority; commitment to greater transparency in the way public [95021] bodies deploy their resources, the Department is required (2) what assessment she has made of the practice by to publish the names and salary information of its most police authorities of recording rioting as violent senior civil servants on a six monthly basis. This information disorder; [95022] can be found on the Home Office website or at: (3) whether she has any plans to take steps to www.data.gov.uk improve consistency among police authorities in the The names and salary information of all members of recording of riot-related crime. [95023] the senior civil service (SCS) in the Home Office, its Agencies and HM Inspectorate of Constabulary at Pay Nick Herbert [holding answer 21 February 2012]: Band 2 level and above are disclosed there; all earn over The recording of all crimes, including riot, is governed £82,900, which is the minimum pay scale for directors. by the Home Office Counting Rules (HOCR). In the In addition, 12 members of the SCS in the Home case of Riot and Violent Disorder, which are offences Office and its Agencies at Pay Band 1 level receive a under section 1 and 2 respectively of the 1986 Public base annual salary of £100,000 or more. Order Act, the HOCR require that police forces record The names and salary information of senior staff in such an offence when the crime is made out as laid the Department’s non-departmental public bodies can down in that legislation. It is a matter for forces to also be found on assess each incident on a case by case basis and determine www.data.gov.uk the appropriate recording decision. Departmental Training Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC) has recently completed an assessment of the quality of Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for the crime and incident data in all forces in England and Home Department pursuant to the answer of Wales, which found that in the case of Nottinghamshire 7 February 2012, Official Report, column 187W, on and Leicestershire their data presented a fair picture. departmental training, where such information is HMIC will carry out further such assessments in due recorded. [95718] course as part of their future work programme. Damian Green [holding answer 23 February 2012]: Criminal Records: EU Action Information on away days held by the Home Office is not collated centrally and this could be achieved only at disproportionate cost. Departmental training expenditure Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home is recorded on the Home Office’s internal accounting Department since what date the UK has been system. exchanging data with other EU member states under the terms of the Prüm decision of 2008. [97214] Departmental Travel

James Brokenshire: The United Kingdom has not yet Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for the implemented the Prüm Council Decisions. The reasons Home Department whether her Department has for this were set out in my letter of 9 November 2011 to agreed any contracts with (a) private hire vehicle and the House of Commons European Scrutiny Committee. (b) taxi companies since May 2010. [92846] 227W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 228W

Damian Green: Since May 2010 the Home Department, (annual) and dt.03.q (quarterly), by country of nationality including its executive agencies, has awarded (a) no of Immigration Statistics July to September 2011 available contracts with private hire vehicle companies and (b)one from the Library of the House and the Home Office contract with a value of £25,000 to a taxi company. The Science, Research and Statistics web pages at: departments expenditure on taxis for the year 2010-11 http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/science-research/research- was £487,000, previous years expenditure has been £920,000 statistics/migration/migration-statistics1/ in 2008-09 and £773,000 in 2009-10. The following table shows people removed on Deportation leaving detention by last place of detention from 2007 to Q3 2011: Chris Bryant: To ask the Secretary of State for the People removed on leaving detention by place of last detention and year Home Department what assessment she has made of Q1-Q3 the compliance of G4S under its contract with the UK 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 Border Agency with the guidance in the Ministry of Total 16,120 163312 16,093 25,959 12,256 Justice’s 2010 Physical Control in Care training manual Immigration on the treatment of minors. [92915] removal centres Brook House 1— 1— 1,439 3,025 1,603 Damian Green: We take the welfare of children in our Campsfield 1,386 1,594 957 1,900 881 care very seriously and act in accordance with Section House 55 of the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act, Colnbrook IRC 134 51 36 524 29 which requires ail UK Border Agency staff and contractors Dover IRC 743 892 627 1,294 723 to carry out their functions with regard to safeguarding Dungavel 277 264 198 636 78 and promoting the welfare of children. Harmondsworth 974 796 750 2,610 2,135 The UK Border Agency contract for escorting services Haslar 124 106 99 424 107 is with Reliance Secure Task Management. The services Lindholme 66 40 27 296 35 Oakington 2,183 1,778 1,487 2,982 1— were provided by G4S Care and Justice Services prior to reception centre May 2011. Morton Hall 1— 1— 1— 1—39 In order to exercise any use of restraint, detainee Tinsley House 3,116 2,660 1,945 2,408 847 custody officers and escorts must be certified by the Yarl’s Wood 2,646 2,576 2,416 3,609 1,545 Secretary of State, a condition of which is that they have undergone training of techniques approved by the Short-term National Offender Management Service (NOMS). Officers holding facilities receive re-fresher training every 12 months. Any use of Colnbrook 3,795 4,750 4,913 5,499 3,978 restraint must be justified, proportionate and for the Short Term shortest possible period to achieve the objective. Dover Harbour 229 507 645 276 1— Harwich 2— 4645251— Officers employed to escort children under the age of Lame House 1— 1— 1— 1—45 18 are trained and certified to use the physical control in Pennine House 447 252 509 451 198 care (PCC) techniques and procedures contained in the NOMS PCC manual. The manual and training packages were written and accredited by NOMS and the training Pre-departure accommodation is delivered by approved PCC instructors. The techniques Cedars 1— 1— 1— 1—13 and the delivery of training are regularly reviewed and 1 Not applicable. assessed by NOMS staff. 2 Not available. Officers are required to complete a report of any use Notes: 1. Data from Q1 2010 onwards are provisional. of PCC, which sets out why it was used and what 2. All people held are detained in the United Kingdom solely under occurred during the incident, including attempts to Immigration Act powers and exclude those in police cells, Prison Service establishments, short-term holding rooms at ports and airports (for less than de-escalate the situation. The report should also reference 24 hours), and those recorded as detained under both criminal and the role of others in the team. Such reports are reviewed immigration powers and their dependants. by a senior manager and are then passed to the UK 3. Relates to most recent period of sole detention. The period of detention starts when a person first enters the UK Border Agency estate. If the person is Border Agency for review. It is open to either party to then moved from a removal centre to a police cell or Prison Service commission an investigation if there are questions as to establishment, this period of stay will be included if the detention is solely whether the use of PCC was justified. under Immigration Act powers. 4. 2008: Pennine House (formerly named Manchester airport short-term holding Detention Centres facility which closed on 15 June 2008), reopened on 30 November 2008. 5. 2009: Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the Brook House opened on 18 March 2009. 6. 2010: Home Department how many detainees have entered Dover Harbour closed on 31 July 2010. each immigration removal centre in each of the last five Oakington Reception Centre closed on 12 November 2010. years; and how many detainees have been removed Harwich short-term holding facility closed on 30 November 2010. Yarl’s Wood closed to families with children on 16 December 2010. from the UK directly from each immigration removal 7. 2011: centre in each of the last five years. [92035] Morton Hall opened on 16 May 2011. Larne House opened on 5 July 2011. Cedars opened on 17 August 2011 only for families deemed suitable by UK Damian Green: The requested information is not Border Agency, advised by the independent Family Returns Panel, for pre- available for all of the last five years. departure accommodation. People entering detention, held solely under Immigration The Home Office publishes quarterly and annual Act powers by initial place of detention have been statistics on the number of people entering and leaving published since 2009 and are available in table dt.03 detention, held solely under Immigration Act powers, 229W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 230W within Immigration Statistics. October to December the convention on the protection of the European 2011 detention figures will be published on 23 February Communities’ financial interests there have been 2012 and will be available from the Library of the between the UK and other EU member states in the House and from the Home Office Science, Research last five years; and what assessment her Department and Statistics web pages. has made of the effectiveness of the convention. [96752] Forensic Science Service: Closures Mr Hoban [holding answer 27 February 2012]: Ihave Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the been asked to reply on behalf of the Treasury. Home Department with reference to the survey of Co-operation between the UK authorities, other member forensic scientists carried out by New Scientist, states and the European Anti-fraud Office, OLAF, has whether she plans to monitor any effects of the closure been ongoing over the last five years. The Serious Fraud of the Forensic Science Service on the number of cases Office is currently handling two cases referred to it by of miscarriage of justice. [96292] OLAF, and assists with cases involving other member states as necessary. James Brokenshire [holding answer 27 February 2012]: The Government believe the current instrument in The closure process has ensured an orderly transition of conjunction with various forms of voluntary co-operation the Forensic Science Service (FSS) services to alternative provides an adequate basis for tackling fraud against suppliers and has given suppliers time to develop additional the EU Budget. capacity. There is no reason to believe that the closure of the FSS will lead to miscarriages of justice. Illegal Immigrants: Northern Ireland Forensic Science: Expenditure Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many people who were Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the detained for attempting to enter the UK illegally Home Department what estimate she has made of the through ports and airports in Northern Ireland in each likely level of expenditure by police forces on forensic of the last five years were (a) deported and (b) services following the closure of the Forensic Science allowed entry into the UK following their detention. Service. [96294] [95051]

James Brokenshire [holding answer 27 February 2012]: Damian Green: From 5 July to 30 September 2011, The police are planning to reduce their spending on 110 persons entered Northern Ireland’s short term holding forensics over the next few years, as forces seek to facility. 45 have been subsequently removed and none maximise efficiencies in this area. At the end of 2010, was granted leave to enter the UK. the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) and This information covers all the UK Border Agency Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary estimated persons in detention and not just Border Force cases that the external market for forensic science services seeking to enter the UK through ports and airports in would reduce by around 35%, from £170 million in 2009 Northern Ireland. towards around £110 million by 2015. We are keeping this under review with key stakeholders, including ACPO. The official published statistics on detention can be The Home Office does not compile details of internal found in “Immigration Statistics: July to September police expenditure on forensics capability, as it is up to 2011”, available from the Library or the Home Office individual police authorities and chief constables to website at: decide how best to spend their money. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research- statistics/research-statistics/immigration-asylum-research/ Fraud: Crime Prevention immigration-tabs-q3-2011/detention-q3-11-tabs Internet: Organised Crime Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what recent discussions her Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the Department has had with police forces on the level of Home Department if she will consider the accuracy of resources for tackling financial crime and fraud. the statements made by the Serious Organised Crime [95989] Agency in respect of rnbxclusive.com that (a) individuals behind the website had been arrested for James Brokenshire: Police authorities are responsible fraud and (b) that the majority of files on the website for setting the budget for their individual force in were stolen from artists. [97225] consultation with the chief constable. The development of the Economic Crime Command Nick Herbert: The statements made by the Serious of the National Crime Agency will provide an opportunity Organised Crime Agency (SOCA) are an operational to examine the enforcement response to financial crime matter. The Home Secretary is not directly involved in and fraud with a view to improving that response, SOCA’s operational matters, which are the responsibility particularly through improved intelligence and collaborative of its director general. working. Marriage of Convenience Fraud: International Cooperation Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Home Department how many planned sham marriages Department how many cases of co-operation in the were detected and prevented in each of the last five (a) investigation and (b) prosecution of fraud under years. [95884] 231W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 232W

Damian Green: The UK Border Agency does not James Brokenshire: The Office of Security and Counter- hold data on the number of planned sham marriages Terrorism within the Home Office is responsible for that were detected and prevented in each of the last five delivering the UK’s counter-terrorism strategy (Contest), years. which was presented to Parliament by the Secretary of State for the Home Department in July 2011. Production Orders: Wales The aim of the strategy is to reduce the risk to the UK and UK interests overseas from terrorism so that Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for people can go about their lives freely and with confidence. the Home Department pursuant to the answer of 20 February 2012, Official Report, column 517W, on The four work streams of Contest are: production orders: Wales, and the answer to the hon. Pursue: to stop terrorist attacks; Member for Hayes and Harlington of 30 January 2012, Prevent: to stop people from becoming terrorists or supporting Official Report, column 403W, on police: court orders, terrorism; for what reason such information is not collected Protect: to strengthen our protection against terrorist attack; centrally; and whether her Department has made an and estimate of the number of production orders issued in Prepare: to mitigate the impact of a terrorist impact. (a) the UK and (b) Wales in the last five years. The strategy covers all forms of terrorism, including [96779] the threat to Great Britain from Northern Ireland-related terrorism and extreme right-wing terrorism, while focusing Nick Herbert: The information requested is not provided on those which pose the biggest risk to UK interests. by police forces because it does not form part of the A copy of the strategy is available in the House Annual Data Requirement (ADR) which the Home Library and it can be downloaded at: Office makes of police forces. The ADR is considered carefully with a view to reducing the bureaucratic burden www.official-documents.gov.uk on police forces and, as an operational matter which is and also at: subject to judicial oversight, we do not see the need to www.homeoffice.gov.uk/counter-terrorism/ collect this information. The Government are committed to ensuring that Because the data are not collected centrally, no reasonable everyone has the freedom to live their lives free from estimate of the number of production orders issued can fear of targeted hostility or harassment on the grounds be made. of a particular characteristic, and is taking action to ensure that the criminal justice services and partners Public Sector: Internet locally are equipped to prevent and tackle such targeted hostility. Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for the We are working collaboratively across Government Home Department what public services her to develop a new hate crime action plan and aim to Department delivers online only. [96897] publish it later this year. We will also work proactively with our Independent Advisory Group on Hate Crime, Damian Green: Many of the Home Office’s services many members of which have been victims of hate can be accessed digitally. However, the Home Office crime themselves, taking account of the group’s views does not currently deliver public services online exclusively, on the issues that need to be addressed. with most of our public websites having a paper based application process to support the online service. We are clear that criminal justice agencies must provide a consistently high standard of service to all victims of Plans are in place to move substantially more of our hate crime, irrespective of their backgrounds and needs. service delivery online, and consideration is being given as to where it would be appropriate for services to be Third Sector delivered exclusively online. Some examples of Home Office plans to move service Chris White: To ask the Secretary of State for the delivery increasingly online include: Home Department what steps her Department has UK Border Agency (UKBA) taken to implement the principles of the Best Value Statutory Guidance in respect of (a) giving at least Immigration Case Work (ICW) is in the process of moving the visa application process online. The UKBA is moving towards an three months’ notice to voluntary and community online business model. organisations and their service users when reducing or Identity and Passport Service (IPS) ending funding, (b) engaging with voluntary and community organisations and service users as early as There is already online certificate ordering from IPS/General possible before making a decision on the future of the Registrars Office (GRO). Currently about 95% of certificates are ordered online although this is supported by a paper-based service, any knock-on effects on assets used to provide service. this service and the wider impact on the local Development of online passport application will move the community and (c) making provision for voluntary and process of form completion and payment online—although existing community organisations and service users to put paper based channels will remain. forward options on how to reshape the service or project. [95785] Terrorism: Racial Incitement James Brokenshire: The Best Value Statutory Guidance Bob Blackman: To ask the Secretary of State for the was published to advise local authorities in their financial Home Department what steps her Department is relationships with voluntary sector organisations. The taking to protect the public from (a) terrorism and (b) Home Office is not a ’Best Value Authority’ under the race hatred. [96903] definition of the guidance and is therefore not required 233W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 234W to adhere to the guidance. However, the Home Office The Government are clear that any changes to the does adhere to the principles of the Compact in its devolution settlement in Wales, including on energy, relationships with voluntary sector organisations, as should be considered in light of the recommendations follows: of the Silk Commission which is currently reviewing (a) The Home Office advises voluntary sector organisations of financial and constitutional arrangements in Wales. funding on an annual basis and advises the organisations that Constitutional issues were not on the agenda for this further funding cannot be guaranteed the following financial meeting. year. The organisations are therefore given several months’ notice that funding may be reduced or cut. The Home Office supports the organisations to find alternative sources of funding. (b) The Home Office engages with the voluntary sector CABINET OFFICE organisations it funds throughout the year and requires them to Adam Werritty provide evidence that they are providing value for money and achieving mutually agreed objectives in line with the Department’s Caroline Lucas: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet business. Office pursuant to the answer of 10 January 2012, (c) The Home Office involves the voluntary sector in policy development from the earliest stages through the regular VCS Official Report, column 73W, on Adam Werritty, for Stakeholder Forum and other meetings at which policy development what reasons the meetings on (a) 8 September 2009 is discussed with the sector. and (b) 16 June 2010 were not referred to in the Cabinet Secretary’s report on the conduct of the right UK Border Agency: Manpower hon. Member for North Somerset. [96664] Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr Maude: These meetings fell outside the terms of Home Department how many UK Border Agency staff reference of the Cabinet Secretary’s report, which concerned were operating at (a) Heathrow airport and (b) Calais the former Defence Secretary’s conduct as a Minister in on 18 and 19 February 2012. [96420] the context of the Ministerial Code. Damian Green: For operational and security reasons Departmental Internet the UK Border Force only publishes resource data at a regional level. Helen Goodman: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what public services his Department delivers UK Border Agency: Passengers online only. [96889]

Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office is responsible for Home Department how many passengers were Directgov which provides access to online departmental processed by the UK Border Agency at (a) each services. Heathrow airport terminal and (b) Calais on 18 and Departmental Senior Civil Servants 19 February 2012. [96421] Mr Thomas: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Damian Green: Statistics relating to the total number Office how many senior civil servants left his of passengers entering the UK are published quarterly Department and its public bodies in each month since in table ’ad.01’ of the Home Office statistical release May 2010; what their names are; what the rate of ’Immigration Statistics’. The latest publication covering turnover of senior civil servants in his Department was data up to and including the fourth quarter (October to during this period; and if he will make a statement. December) 2011 is available from the Library of the [96257] House and from the Home Office Science website at: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research- Mr Maude: The average turnover of senior civil servant statistics/research-statistics/immigration-asylum-research/ (SCS) staff in my Department and its public bodies has immigration-q4-2011 remained stable since before May 2010 and is down The next release of the Immigration Statistics covering from a peak turnover of 34% 2007-08. The average rate the period January to March 2012 will be published on of turnover for 2010-11 and 2011-12 (to date) is 25%. 24 May 2012. The nature of much of the work in the Cabinet Office means that there is a high requirement for expertise to be brought in, including as loan-ins from other DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Departments, in order to work on changing priorities. Nearly 40% of the senior civil servants who left the Devolution: Energy Department moved elsewhere within Government. The following table outlines the number of senior Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Deputy Prime civil servants who left my Department and its public Minister what discussions were held at the Joint bodies in each month since May 2010. Ministerial Council of 20 February 2012 on (a) the devolution of energy matters to the National Assembly Number for Wales and (b) the formation of a constitutional convention for the United Kingdom. [96567] 2010 May 4 The Deputy Prime Minister: At the meeting of the June 5 Joint Ministerial Committee (Domestic sub-committee) July 4 on 20 February, Ministers from the four Administrations August 5 held a wide-ranging discussion on energy policy, with a September 1 particular focus on electricity market reform. 235W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 236W

Table 1: Distribution and average (mean) ratings for optimism about the future1, Number 2: Great Britain Percentages October 2 June 2011 November 3 Optimism about the Optimism about the December 10 Ratings next five years3 next 12 months4

9 10.7 16.4 2011 10 10.8 15.6 January 2 Mean 6.8 7.3 February 1 1 Adults aged 16 and over. March 10 2 Respondents are asked to provide an answer from 0 (‘not at all optimistic’) to April 7 10 (‘completely optimistic’) for each question. 3 Overall, how optimistic do you feel about the next five years? May 7 4 Overall, how optimistic do you feel about the next 12 months? June 6 Source: July 6 June 2011 Opinions Survey, ONS. August 5 September 3 October 6 WORK AND PENSIONS November 6 December 4 Action for Employment

2012 Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what contracts his Department has January 7 with A4e; and what the (a) purpose and (b) monetary Health value is of each such contract. [97077] Chris Grayling: The Department has the following Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet current contracts with A4e. Office whether his Department measures optimism in society. [96838] Contract Estimated package Contract annual value Programme area Area covered No. (£) Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Work 2 East Midlands WP/CPA02/ 1— asked the authority to reply. programme A4E Work 4 East London WP/CPA04/ 1— Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2012: programme A4E As Director-General for the Office for National Statistics, I Work 6 Merseyside, WP/CPA06/ 1— have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question programme Halton, Cumbria, A4E asking the Minister for the Cabinet Office whether his Department Lancashire measures optimism in society (96838). Work 9 Thames Valley, WP/CPA09/ 1— programme Hampshire and A4E On 1 December 2011, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) IoW published a research report entitled “Initial investigation into Work 17 South Yorkshire WP/CPA17/ 1— Subjective Well-being from the Opinions Survey” which is available programme A4E from the following web link: JCPSC 2 Black Country JCPSC/ 1,013,917 http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/wellbeing/measuring- CPA02/09 subjective-wellbeing-in-the-uk/investigation-of-subjective-well- JCPSC 10 North and Mid JCPSC/ 870,286 being-data-from-the-ons-opinions-survey/initial-investigation- Wales and South CPA10/09 into-subjective-well-being-from-the-opinions-survey.html East Wales JCPSC 12 South Yorkshire JCPSC/ 1,335,297 This report provides initial experimental estimates from the and Derbyshire CPA12/09 ONS Opinions Survey of how optimistic adults (aged 16 and JCPSC 16 Hants and IoW/ JCPSC/ 1,398,934 over) in Great Britain were about the next 12 months and 5 years. Berks and Bucks/ CPA16/09 Table 1 attached provides estimates of average levels of optimism Oxon and the percentages of adults who gave different ratings on a 0 to JCPSC 23 West Yorkshire JCPSC/ 1,448,867 10 scale where 0 was “not at all optimistic” and 10 was “completely CPA23/09 optimistic”. JCPSC 24 London JCPSC/ 5,674,478 Table 1: Distribution and average (mean) ratings for optimism about the future1, CPA24/09 2: Great Britain MWA 1 South East 01/01/MWA 664,003 Percentages 1 Dependent on company performance June 2011 Optimism about the Optimism about the Work programme Ratings next five years3 next 12 months4 The Work programme is for individuals who are at

0 1.3 2.2 risk of long-term unemployment and has been designed 1 1.9 0.6 to help people with a wide variety of needs back into 2 2.0 1.6 sustained employment. The programme provides 3 4.1 2.5 individually tailored support and lasts for up to two years. 4 3.4 3.5 Jobcentre Plus Support Contract 5 12.1 9.0 This contract supports Jobcentre Plus advisers’ efforts 6 10.5 8.1 to help people back to work by delivering short courses 7 20.4 15.5 aimed at improving employability. Examples include 8 22.7 24.9 job search skills and motivational events. 237W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 238W

Mandatory Work Activity Employment and Support Allowance Mandatory Work Activity gives extra support to a small number of individuals who would benefit from a Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for short period of work experience. It aims to help people Work and Pensions how regularly individuals in receipt refocus their job search and gain valuable work-related of employment and support allowance are required to disciplines, such as attending on time and regularly, undergo reassessment to determine their continued carrying out specific tasks and working under supervision. entitlement to the benefit. [97218] Paul Blomfield: To ask the Secretary of State for Chris Grayling: Claimants are assessed at the start of Work and Pensions what meetings (a) Ministers and a claim to employment and support allowance to determine (b) special advisers in his Department have had with entitlement to the benefit. Further assessments will representatives of A4e since 12 May 2010. [97092] then be carried out over the duration of the claim to determine continued entitlement and whether a claimant Chris Grayling: This Department has published on a should remain in the same group. quarterly basis since October 2009, details of all ministerial The frequency of these repeat assessments will depend meetings with external organisations. The information on the prognosis given by the health care professional at you have requested can be found via the attached link to the previous assessment. the Department’s website. It is important that claimants have regular assessments, http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/corporate-publications/ so that we can ensure that they are receiving the support ministers-meetings-overseas.shtml they need for their current capabilities and needs, we Information for the period 1 July 2011 to 31 December can determine whether the impact of their health condition 2011 has yet to be published. or disability has improved or worsened, and can determine One of the Department’s special advisers and a DWP whether they have adapted to their condition. official met Emma Harrison on 25 November 2010. Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for Margaret Hodge: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what proportion of final decisions Work and Pensions if he will suspend his Department’s on entitlement to employment and support allowance contracts with A4e until police investigations into differed from the original advice provided by Atos allegations of fraud and any related criminal between (a) June 2009 and May 2010 and (b) June proceedings have been completed. [97158] 2010 and May 2011. [97290] Chris Grayling: The Department treats allegations of Chris Grayling: Between June 2009 and May 2010 2% fraud very seriously but cannot comment on the current of final decisions on entitlement to employment and investigations. Though these cases do not relate to support allowance differed from the original advice A4e’s current contracts including the Work Programme, provided by Atos. Between June 2010 and May 2011 6% rather contracts procured under the previous of decisions differed. This increase is likely to reflect the Administration, we have reminded A4e of their contractual implementation of Professor Harrington’s first Independent obligations. If there is evidence of systemic fraud in review of the WCA. either current or past contracts, we will not hesitate to These proportions do not include clerical assessments terminate our commercial relationship with them. where the Atos recommendation cannot be readily determined but the claimants subsequently received a Automated Service Delivery Project decision from DWP. Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (1) for what reason his Work and Pensions how many people in receipt of Department’s automated service delivery project was employment and support allowance (ESA) underwent suspended in January; and if he will make a statement; reassessment less than (a) eight months and (b) one [97282] year from the date of the previous awarding of ESA in (2) when he expects his Department’s automated (i) the UK, (ii) Scotland and (iii) Edinburgh between service delivery project to go live. [97283] (1) June 2009 and May 2010 and (b) June 2010 and May 2011. [97291] Chris Grayling: The original plans for ASD were made prior to the decision to introduce universal credit. Chris Grayling: This information is not available. As universal credit will begin to replace income-based Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for jobseeker’s allowance from 2013 any further investment Work and Pensions how many recipients of in jobseeker’s allowance now demonstrates only a limited employment and support allowance were placed in the value for money. support group without having to attend an Atos In January 2012 the Department began a review of assessment between (a) June 2009 and May 2010 and the Automated Service Delivery (ASD) project’s future (b) June 2010 and May 2011. [97292] costs, benefits, and strategic fit. The initial findings of that review recommended ASD be paused pending further Chris Grayling: The information requested is not analysis. available as it is not routinely collated by the Department. The Department has now completed this further Jobseeker’s Allowance: New Enterprise Allowance analysis and taken the responsible decision not to make further investment in the project. Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Work The decision does not affect the delivery of universal and Pensions what estimate his Department has made credit. of the cost of allowing claimants of jobseeker’s 239W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 240W allowance to claim for the New Enterprise Allowance participating on the programmes will have a specific set of from (a) the first day, (b) the first month and (c) the characteristics and claim durations. third month. [97284] Source: National Benefits Database Chris Grayling: A change in the entry point to the new enterprise allowance scheme would not impact on New Deal Schemes the cost of delivering the scheme because it is funded to deliver 40,000 places. However, it would potentially Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for reduce opportunities for longer term jobseekers to Work and Pensions what proportion of Flexible New participate in the scheme. Deal participants who were on the programme on 1 September 2011 were subsequently diverted from the Jobseekers Allowance: Young People programme. [97281]

Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Chris Grayling: Everyone on the flexible new deal on Work and Pensions how many people aged 18 to 1 September 2011 was referred back to Jobcentre Plus 24 years in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance for for a conversion interview. The conversion interview 13 weeks were still in receipt of the allowance after a provided the claimant with information about the Work further 13 weeks in the latest period for which figures programme, including when they would qualify for are available. [97288] entry to it and, in appropriate cases, the option to volunteer for early access. Chris Grayling: Between January and March 2011, Post Office Card Account 164,000 people aged 18-24 passed through the 13 week point of their JSA claim between April and June. Of Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for those 164,000, 104,000 were still in receipt of JSA after Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of a further 13 weeks. the demographic profile of people with Post Office Notes: card accounts. [94726] 1. Figures rounded to the nearest 1,000. 2. Between weeks 13 and 26, some of the 104,000 people left Steve Webb: No formal assessment has been made of jobseeker’s allowance and returned to benefit. the demographic profile of people with Post Office card 3. Comparisons with the benefit outcomes of participants in accounts. The following tables provide a breakdown of employment programmes cannot be made because individuals accounts by age, gender and region.

Method of payment—Post Office card accounts by age, gender and region—October 2011 Yorkshire and the Great Britain North East North West Humber East Midlands West Midlands

All Female 2,063,800 131,330 296,590 205,480 146,730 216,820 Male 1,493,400 106,100 229,780 151,530 103,260 154,080

Under 18 Female 7,860 480 1,150 740 500 890 Male 17,240 1,010 2,510 1,490 1,150 1,910

18 to 24 Female 30,850 1,900 5,380 3,120 2,120 3,280 Male 30,830 2,060 5,540 3,200 1,920 3,500

25 to 34 Female 80,930 5,330 13,200 7,820 5,040 8,460 Male 77,730 5,010 12,930 8,080 4,940 8,480

35 to 44 Female 118,260 7,170 19,370 11,280 6,750 11,760 Male 128,420 7,560 22,570 12,600 7,550 12,520

45 to 49 Female 77,870 4,850 12,500 7,040 4,510 7,510 Male 85,800 5,300 14,940 7,850 5,060 7,930

50 to 54 Female 80,740 5,560 13,350 7,300 4,920 7,750 Male 86,450 6,200 14,640 8,070 5,210 8,220

55 to 59 Female 84,680 5,980 14,160 7,810 5,280 8,390 Male 88,890 6,720 14,750 8,740 5,380 8,620

60 to 64 Female 148,060 11,200 23,630 14,540 9,400 14,340 Male 118,420 10,060 20,130 11,800 7,590 11,200 241W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 242W

Method of payment—Post Office card accounts by age, gender and region—October 2011

Yorkshire and the Great Britain North East North West Humber East Midlands West Midlands

65 to 69 Female 206,790 13,700 30,490 20,500 14,610 21,630

Male 156,020 12,970 24,680 15,610 10,110 15,590

70 to 79 Female 586,480 39,380 82,600 60,410 43,000 62,350

Male 391,900 29,710 56,850 41,380 28,720 41,680

80 to 89 Female 512,180 29,710 65,390 52,030 40,330 56,290

Male 270,750 17,460 35,550 28,590 22,060 30,080

90 and over Female 129,100 6,070 15,380 12,900 10,280 14,180

Male 40,950 2,030 4,690 4,130 3,560 4,360

East of England London South East South West Wales Scotland

All Female 145,960 184,340 173,100 161,950 171,380 230,130 Male 94,040 136,860 110,300 108,030 126,900 172,530

Under 18 Female 500 930 680 530 630 820 Male 1,130 2,110 1,720 1,200 1,390 1,600

18 to 24 Female 1,700 3,980 2,160 1,470 2,450 3,280 Male 1,590 3,460 2,020 1,520 2,420 3,620

25 to 34 Female 4,480 11,090 5,540 4,260 6,300 9,410 Male 3,900 9,460 4,840 4,240 5,860 10,010

35 to 44 Female 6,670 16,930 8,230 6,650 8,880 14,570 Male 6,770 16,090 8,380 7,550 9,190 17,620

45 to 49 Female 4,260 11,030 5,450 4,620 6,190 9,910 Male 4,510 11,910 5,700 5,360 6,240 10,990

50 to 54 Female 4,250 9,950 5,360 4,620 6,800 10,880 Male 4,460 10,890 5,720 4,970 6,570 11,500

55 to 59 Female 4,510 9,490 5,470 4,780 7,540 11,290 Male 4,490 10,180 6,040 5,210 7,190 11,580

60 to 64 Female 8,630 14,040 10,080 9,560 14,100 18,560 Male 5,990 10,950 7,300 6,900 11,230 15,270

65 to 69 Female 13,510 16,650 15,880 16,430 19,600 23,790 Male 8,620 13,840 10,080 10,550 15,230 18,740

70 to 79 Female 42,400 42,350 48,530 49,240 49,800 66,460 Male 26,150 27,320 29,580 31,160 36,180 43,180

80 to 89 Female 43,190 37,910 50,460 46,860 39,490 50,540 Male 22,470 17,620 24,350 24,980 22,410 25,200

90 and over Female 11,850 9,990 15,270 12,940 9,610 10,620 243W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 244W

East of England London South East South West Wales Scotland

Male 3,980 3,030 4,570 4,390 3,000 3,230 Notes: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. Totals do not sum due to rounding. 2. Figures only relate to accounts live and in payment on the specified date. 3. Data does not include Northern Ireland. 4. Figures refer to payment accounts. Claimants with more than one account will be counted for each account. 5. Analysis includes the following DWP Benefits: Income Support (IS), Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA), Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), Industrial Injuries (II), Attendance Allowance (AA), Disability Living Allowance (DLA), Carer’s Allowance (CA), State Pension (SP), Pension Credit (PC), Bereavement Benefit (BB), Incapacity Benefit (IB), Severe Disablement Allowance (SDA) and Widows Benefit (WB). Source: DWP Information, Governance and Security Directorate, 100% data

Work Capability Assessments Paul Burstow: The Department’s National Institute for Health Research (NIHR) funds a wide range of Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for research on the incidence, causes, treatment and prevention Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer to the hon. of allergic conditions in children. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West of From April 2012, the NIHR biomedical research 18 January 2012, Official Report, column 845W, on centre at Guy’s and St Thomas’ NHS Foundation Trust work capability assessments, on what date he plans to and King’s College London will have a research theme publish part one of his Department’s research into on environment, respiratory health and allergy. Details what happens to people found fit for work and those of the centre’s research themes from April 2012 can be placed in work-related activity and support groups. found at: [97286] www.biomedicalresearchcentre.org/AboutUs/ TheNewBRC.aspx Chris Grayling: We are currently completing the quality assurance process for this report and expect to be able Research currently funded by the NIHR Health to publish it in due course. Technology Assessment (HTA) programme includes a project on allergen immunotherapy in adults and children with severe hay fever. Details of this project can be found on the HTA programme website at: HEALTH www.hta.ac.uk/project/2282.asp Action for Employment Research currently hosted by the NIHR Clinical Research Network (CRN) includes a birth cohort study investigating Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for the development of asthma and allergic disease, and a Health what contracts his Department has with A4e; study on understanding childhood infection, inflammation and what the (a) purpose and (b) monetary value is of and allergy. Details of these studies can be found on the each such contract. [97075] UK CRN portfolio database at: http://public.ukcrn.org.uk/Search/ Mr Simon Burns: The Department’s central procurement StudyDetail.aspx?StudyID=6616 system holds no records of contracts with Action for and Employment Ltd. http://public.ukcrn.org.uk/Search/ Allergies: Children StudyDetail.aspx?StudyID=8209

Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Anaemia: Health Services Health what assessment he has made on the availability to GPs of guidance on the diagnosis and treatment of Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if allergies in children; and if he will make a statement. he will take steps to improve the frequency of testing [96866] and treatment of pernicious anaemia. [96475]

Paul Burstow: All general practitioners (GPs) will be Paul Burstow: Although pernicious anaemia is a relatively familiar with the symptoms of the common allergic rare condition, all general practitioners (GPs) should be conditions in children. Guidance on specific conditions familiar with the symptoms of anaemia and alert to the is available from a range of sources accessible to GPs, possibility that this is due to vitamin B12 deficiency. including National Institute for Health and Clinical Guidance on the testing and treatment of pernicious Excellence, the Map of Medicine, the Royal College of anaemia is available from sources readily accessible to Paediatrics and Child Health, the Royal College of GPs and other clinicians, including “Clinical Knowledge General Practitioners, and the web resources ‘Patient Summaries” and “Patient UK”. UK’ and ‘Clinical Knowledge Summaries’. Children with complex allergies should be referred to secondary Brain: Injuries or tertiary specialist clinics according to local clinical pathways. Richard Ottaway: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps he is taking to address the disparity Health what recent research his Department has between members of the armed forces and civilian commissioned into the (a) incidence, (b) causes, (c) patients who sustain head injury in arrangements for treatment and (d) prevention of allergies in children. routine screening for post-traumatic hypopituitarism. [96950] [97126] 245W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 246W

Paul Burstow: It is the responsibility of those health In 2011-12, reported spend to end January 2012 professionals involved in treating patients with head against the Cancer Drugs Fund is £71 million. Levels of injuries to decide on whether to screen for post-traumatic current activity are likely to be higher than these figures hypopituitarism. suggest, due to the gap between treatment being provided and payment being invoiced and processed. Cancer: Drugs Information at cancer network level is not collected centrally, nor is information on the indications treated. Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how much of the £200 million allocated to the Cancer Drugs Fund has been spent in (a) total and (b) each Cancer: Health Services cancer network; and as a result of this spending (i) what indications have been treated and (ii) how many Jim Dowd: To ask the Secretary of State for Health patients have been treated. [96336] how many (a) treatments and (b) therapies have been appraised by the National Institute for Health and Paul Burstow: The Cancer Drugs Fund of £600 million Clinical Excellence for (i) advanced breast cancer and over three years was launched on 1 April 2011 to help (ii) advanced prostate cancer; and of all such thousands of cancer patients access the drugs their treatments and therapies how many have been clinicians believe will help them. We made an additional approved in each case since 1999. [96329] £50 million available to strategic health authorities (SHAs) in 2010-11 to support improved access to cancer drugs. Paul Burstow: The National Institute for Health and SHAs have reported that between October 2010 and Clinical Excellence (NICE) has published final technology the end of January 2012, funding allocated so far has appraisal guidance on a number of treatments for advanced helped 11,871 cancer patients in England access the and/or metastatic breast and prostate cancer. Details of cancer drugs their clinicians recommended. NICE’s recommendations are shown in the tables.

NICE technology appraisals (TAs): breast cancer TA number Drug and indication Recommendation1 Publication date Notes

TA30 Docetaxel in combination with an Not recommended September 2001 Guidance has been anthracycline in first-line treatment of incorporated in Clinical advanced breast cancer guideline 81 TA30 Docetaxel for the treatment of advanced Recommended September 2001 Guidance has been breast cancer where initial cytotoxic incorporated in Clinical chemotherapy (including an anthracycline) guideline 81 has failed or is inappropriate TA30 Paclitaxel for the treatment of advanced Recommended September 2001 Guidance has been breast cancer where initial cytotoxic incorporated in Clinical chemotherapy (including, an anthracycline) guideline 81 has failed or is inappropriate TA34 Trastuzumab in combination with Recommended March 2002 paclitaxel for the treatment of advanced breast cancer TA34 Trastuzumab monotherapy for the Recommended March 2002 treatment of advanced breast cancer TA54 Vinorelbine monotherapy for advanced Recommended December 2002 Guidance has been breast cancer incorporated in Clinical guideline 81 TA54 Vinorelbine combination therapies for Not recommended December 2002 Guidance has been advanced breast cancer incorporated in Clinical guideline 81 TA62 Capecitabine for the treatment of locally Recommended May 2003 Guidance has been advanced or metastatic breast cancer incorporated in Clinical guideline 81 TA62 Capecitabine plus docetaxel for the Recommended May 2003 Guidance has been treatment of locally advanced or metastatic, incorporated In Clinical breast cancer guideline 81 TA116 Gemcitabine in combination with paclitaxel Recommended January 2007 for the treatment of metastatic breast cancer TA214 Bevacizumab in combination with a taxane Not recommended February 2011 for the first-line treatment of metastatic breast cancer TA239 Fulvestrant for the treatment of locally Not recommended December 2011 advanced or metastatic breast cancer in postmenopausal women whose cancer has progressed after anti-oestrogen therapy

NICE TAs: prostate cancer TA Drug and indication Recommendation1 Publication date

TA101 Docetaxel for men with hormone-refractory Recommended June 2006 metastatic prostate cancer 1 Where a treatment is ″recommended″, it is recommended in line with the marketing authorisation or in line with clinical practice. 247W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 248W

Chiropody agencies and non-departmental public bodies and (iii) each individual NHS trust are paid by means of Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for payments to a limited company in lieu of salary; what Health how many podiatrists were employed by each the amount paid into private companies is since May primary care trust in 2011; and what the ratio of such 2010; and if he will make a statement. [97232] podiatrists per head of population was. [96989] Mr Simon Burns: The Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Mr Simon Burns: Information on the number of the right hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch podiatrists employed in 2011 will be available on 21 March and Strathspey (Danny Alexander), has announced an 2012, following publication of the NHS Information urgent review of the tax arrangements of senior public Centre Hospital and Community Health Service (HCHS) sector appointments, to report by the end of March annual work force census. 2012. As part of this, the Department is currently carrying out a major data gathering exercise which The monthly publication of the HCHS work force includes its executive agency, non-departmental public numbers does not provide this level of detail. bodies and the national health service in order to determine A table giving the number of podiatrists by primary the contracting arrangements of senior appointees. This care trust and per 100,000 of the population as at exercise is expected to be completed by mid-March. 30 September 2010, the latest data available, has been The Department makes payments to private companies placed in the Library. where this approach reflects a business need, to secure Dental Services: Shrewsbury specific skills and experience through commercial means in the short to medium term to support the Department Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for in delivering its policies. Health how many NHS dentists were operating in Shrewsbury in (a) 2005, (b) 2010 and (c) 2011. Drugs: Misuse [96269] John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Simon Burns: Numbers of national health service Health (1) with reference to his proposed healthcare dentists in the years between 31 March 1997 and 31 reforms, whether he proposes that there will be a March 2006 are shown in Annex E and Annex G of the mandatory duty on (a) Public Health England, (b) ‘NHS, Dental Activity and Workforce Report, England: local authorities, (c) elected crime commissioners and 31 March 2006’. A copy of this document has been (d) GP commissioning groups to fund and provide placed in the Library. services for those misusing drugs and alcohol; [96469] Numbers of dentists active in the NHS in 2010 and (2) what plans he has for spending on drug and 2011 are not available in the format requested. Numbers alcohol treatment when the national Pooled Treatment of dentists active in the NHS in years ending 31 March Budget ends in April 2013; [96470] 2007 to 31 March 2011 by strategic health authority (3) what steps he plans to take to ensure that there is and primary care trust are shown in Table H1 of Annex 3 sufficient investment in drug and alcohol treatment of the ‘NHS Dental Statistics for England: 2010/11’ services to deliver the Drug Strategy 2010; and if he report. This document has already been placed in the will make a statement. [96471] Library. Departmental ICT Mr Simon Burns: Subject to the passage of the Health and Social Care Bill 2011 local authorities will have a new duty to take appropriate steps to improve the Mr Jenkin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health health of the people in their areas and the Secretary of how much his Department has spent on enterprise State for Health, my right hon. Friend the Member for resource planning systems in the last 12 months for South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley), will have the power which figures are available. [96608] to take appropriate steps to improve the health of the people of England. Local authorities will be responsible Mr Simon Burns: The Department makes use of an for commissioning treatment for dependence on drug enterprise resource planning system, (ERP) based upon and alcohol from April 2013, and will receive funding Oracle Financials. This is named the Business Management through a ring-fenced Public Health Grant. The Advisory System. Committee on Resource Allocation has been asked to The running cost per annum of this service is as develop a formula for the allocation of the public health follows: grant to local authorities. We intend to maintain incentive Hardware support and maintenance: £200,000 payments for drug treatment based on those currently Application maintenance and support: £1,090,000 used in the allocation of the Pooled Treatment Budget. Licence costs for Oracle software: £104,000 Local authorities and clinical commissioning groups Total cost of operating the ERP service: £1,394,000. (CCGs) will be required to undertake Joint Strategic Needs Assessments (JSNAs) through health and wellbeing Departmental Pay boards to understand the health and care needs of the whole local population. Based on this health and wellbeing Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for boards will develop and agree joint health and wellbeing Health what his policy is on payment to private strategies, identifying priorities to be addressed across companies in lieu of salary and how many (a) payroll the local system. CCG and local authority commissioning staff and (b) non-payroll staff, including consultants plans will be underpinned by JSNAs and joint health and contractors of (i) his Department, (ii) its executive and wellbeing strategies so that local services meet the 249W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 250W identified needs. Health and wellbeing boards will promote hours have been spent on requests EA/2011/0286 and joined up commissioning that will support integrated 0287; and how many hours of external legal advice provision of services across health, public health and have been spent on those requests; [97223] social care. The Public Health Outcomes Framework (2) what his Department’s total legal costs were published on 23 January 2012 includes indicators on associated with requests made under the Freedom of successful completion of drug treatment and alcohol Information Act 2000 including (a) legal costs related admissions as well as a number of related indicators associated with the cases EA/2011/0286 and 0287 and including reoffending. (b) cases appealed to upper tribunal in each of the last five years. [97224] Foetal Alcohol Syndrome Mr Simon Burns: All staff across the whole of the Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for Department can expect to work on Freedom of Information Health (1) what assessment he has made of the (FOI) requests, as part of their overall duties as civil potential costs and benefits of the UK’s participation servants. No record is held of how many full-time in the World Health Organisation prevalence study into equivalent (FTE) staff have worked on FOI requests in foetal alcohol spectrum disorders; [97245] each of the last five years. (2) what cost benefit analysis his Department has However, the Department has a central FOI team undertaken in respect of UK participation in the global whose job it is to handle and process FOI requests World Health Authority prevalence study into foetal submitted to the Department. FTE staff numbers in the alcohol spectrum disorders. [97287] FOI team, are contained in the following table: Mr Simon Burns: We are aware that the World Health Organisation plans to undertake a prevalence study into Financial year Number (FTEs) foetal alcohol spectrum disorders. The United Kingdom 2006-07 8.2 has not been invited to participate in the study. We look 2007-08 7.2 forward to the findings from the study into foetal alcohol 2008-09 16.4 spectrum disorders in due course. 2009-10 210 2010-11 39.6 Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 8.4 from June 2008. Health what assessment he has made of (a) the 2 11 from October 2009. 3 prevalence of foetal alcohol spectrum disorders and As at 8 July, (10.6 as at 18 March). (b) any difference in approach to diagnosing such No record is maintained of how many non-legal staff conditions between the UK and other countries. hours have been spent on requests EA/2011/0286 and [97246] 0287. As regards to the hours and costs of legal work Mr Simon Burns: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer associated with FOI requests, the Department receives given by the Under-Secretary of State for Health, my legal services through a block Service Level Agreement hon. Friend the Member for Guildford (Anne Milton), (SLA) with the Department for Work and Pensions on 20 January 2012, Official Report, columns 1006-07W, (DWP). Government lawyers working on FOI requests in respect of work commissioned by the Department on do so under the block SLA without costs being apportioned research gaps around the prevalence of foetal alcohol to the Department for those requests. spectrum disorders. With regard to the cases EA/2011/0286 and 0287, up The National Perinatal Epidemiology Unit’s review to 27 February 2012, 116.6 hours have been recorded of the evidence of foetal effects of prenatal alcohol for the time of litigation lawyers. This time will not, exposure, published in 2006 as ‘Review of the Fetal though, be charged to the Department, as it will be Effects of Prenatal Alcohol Exposure’, considered evidence covered by the block SLA. from other countries and the international research To date, the number of hours worked by external evidence base. Counsel on requests EA/2011/0286 and 0287, is 172 hours and the amount billed to the Department is £24,630 Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for (including VAT). It is estimated that approximately Health for what reason foetal alcohol spectrum another 125 hours will be spent by external Counsel on disorders is not a recognised condition in the UK. preparing for the two-day hearing and at the hearing [97249] itself—with the total external legal costs of the cases Paul Burstow: Foetal alcohol spectrum disorder is a thus estimated to be just over £40,000 (including VAT). term used to describe a range of disorders and disabilities Information about legal costs associated with FOI associated with prenatal alcohol exposure. It is not requests for cases appealed to the upper tribunal in each generally regarded as a single condition, but as an of the last five years is not readily available. However, it umbrella term that covers several alcohol-related medical is currently being collated by officials and I will write to conditions. the right hon. Member with the information and place a copy of my letter in the Library. Freedom of Information General Practitioners: Digital Technology John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) how many full-time equivalent staff in his Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Department worked on requests made under the Health what steps he is taking to encourage Freedom of Information Act 2000 in each of the last consultations with doctors to be provided via Skype to five years; how many (i) non-legal and (ii) legal staff enable patients to avoid waiting to see a doctor. [96266] 251W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 252W

Mr Simon Burns: Responses to the Government’s Mr Simon Burns: The Joint Committee on Vaccination consultation “Liberating the NHS: An Information and Immunisation (JCVI) follows the methodology and Revolution”highlighted the potential for digital technologies criteria developed and used by the National Institute of to improve the way that care is delivered. Skype is one Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) to assess the example of how such improvement can be effected but cost-effectiveness of health interventions. The NICE its deployment would be a local, rather than central, methodology considers cost-effectiveness from the decision. The forthcoming information strategy for health point of generating the greatest level of health, measured and care in England will include discussion of opportunities by generally accepted indicators, with the resources to incentivise the use of digital technologies—such as available to the national health service. Wider, non-health telehealth and online meetings and consultations—to societal costs and benefits are not generally included. improve care and outcomes. The JCVI does not, therefore, consider general societal On this theme, the Department recently launched data when considering the cost-effectiveness of vaccination ″3millionlives″—a new way of working collaboratively programmes. with industry, national health service and social care As with all information considered by the Committee, organisations to improve the lives of 3 million people including economic models, details of the source through the integrated use of telehealth and telecare publications are provided in the meeting papers, minutes technologies where appropriate. and/or statements available on the JCVI website at: www.dh.gov.uk/ab/jcvi/index.htm Hospital Beds Some economic models considered by the Committee have yet to be published and have been provided by the Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for authors in confidence. In these cases details about who Health how many NHS beds are available for those conducted the studies is given. receiving treatment for drug and alcohol problems. The recent JCVI statements on influenza, pneumococcal, [96282] respiratory syncytial virus, varicella and herpes zoster, rotavirus and human papillomavirus immunisations that Mr Simon Burns: These data are not collected centrally. set out the Committee’s recommendations and that Influenza: Vaccination provide details about the economic models considered have been placed in the Library. Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Macular Degeneration: Waiting Lists how many doses of Pandemrix were purchased by his Department in (a) 2009 and (b) 2010. [96273] Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps he is taking to ensure that waiting Mr Simon Burns: As part of the response to the times for (a) macular degeneration and (b) other eye H1N1 (2009) influenza pandemic, 34,838,500 doses of problems are reduced in Shropshire. [96267] Pandemrix were purchased in 2009-10. No further orders were placed in 2010-11. Mr Simon Burns: Departmental figures for December 2011 show that referral to treatment and diagnostic test Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Health waiting times are low and stable. 93.2% of admitted what plans he has for remaining stocks of Pandemrix. patients and 96.9% of non-admitted patients began [96274] treatment within 18 weeks. ‘The Operating Framework for the NHS in England Mr Simon Burns: The Department has no remaining 2012/13’ confirms that the operational standards of stocks of the Pandemrix vaccine. All stocks expired in 90% for admitted and 95% for non-admitted patients, October 2011. as set out in the NHS constitution will remain in place. It is for the national health service locally to decide how, Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Health when and where services are provided. The Department how many doses of Pandemrix were dispensed in (a) will continue to publish and monitor hospital waiting 2009 and (b) 2010. [96275] times. General practitioners and commissioners of health services will use this information locally to ensure that Mr Simon Burns: It is estimated that 5.9 million doses they can continue to improve access to services for their of Pandemrix were administered from October 2009 to patients by addressing any clinically unjustified waits. March 2010 in response to the 2009 H1N1 influenza pandemic. NHS Commissioning Boards: Hull Pandemrix was also used during the latter stages of Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2010-11 seasonal flu programme. It is estimated that Health how many people he expects to be directly about 170,000 doses of Pandemrix were administered employed by the proposed NHS Commissioning from September 2010 to February 2011. Boards in the Hull area. [96304] All figures relate to England. Mr Simon Burns: Recommendations for the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation organisational design of the NHS Commissioning Board were ratified at the NHS Commissioning Board Authority Simon Reevell: To ask the Secretary of State for board meeting on 2 February 2012. This paper has been Health if he will place in the Library details of the (a) placed in the Library, and is available on the Commissioning use of societal data and (b) economic models used by Board Authority website at: the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation www.commissioningboard.nhs.uk/2012/01/26/board-meeting- in assessing the cost-effectiveness of vaccines. [96306] 020212/ 253W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 254W

The recommendations make a planning assumption We recognised in the White Paper “Equity and excellence: that the board will employ around 3,560 people across Liberating the NHS” that, as a result of the record England with 2,500 in local offices, 200 at sector level national debt and lower spending growth available to and 860 at the centre. Work will now be undertaken the NHS in the coming years, the service will employ through the strategic health authorities, primary care fewer staff at the end of this Parliament, although trust clusters and aspirant clinical commissioning groups rebalanced towards clinical staffing and frontline support to confirm the locations of the 50 local offices and rather than excessive administration. commissioning support units. Revenue allocations are made to primary care trusts (PCTs). These allocations are not broken down by service or policy area. It is for PCTs to decide how their NHS: Redundancy resources are allocated to meet the health care needs of their local populations, in line with local and national Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for priorities. Health (1) how many redundancies there were in the Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for Hull and East Yorkshire Hospitals NHS Trust as a Health (1) what information his Department holds on result of the implementation of NHS reforms in the number of staff that have been made redundant by financial year 2010-11; how many he expects there to Hull and East Yorkshire Hospitals NHS Trust since be in financial year (a) 2011-12, (b) 2012-13 and (c) April 2010; what the average cost per staff member was 2013-14; and what resources he plans to transfer to of such redundancies to each primary care trust; how Hull and East Yorkshire Hospitals NHS Trust to cover many such redundancies involved an individual the cost of his proposed NHS reorganisation; [96321] redundancy payment of over £40,000; and what the (2) how many redundancies there were in the Hull cost to the public purse has been of such redundancies Teaching Primary Care Trust as a result of the since April 2010; [96324] implementation of NHS reforms in financial year (2) what information his Department holds on the 2010-11; how many he expects there to be in financial number of staff that have been made redundant by year (a) 2011-12, (b) 2012-13 and (c) 2013-14; and Humber NHS Foundation Trust since April 2010; what what resources he plans to transfer to Hull Teaching the average cost per staff member was of such Primary Care Trust to cover the cost of his proposed redundancies to each primary care trust; how many NHS reorganisation. [96322] such redundancies involved an individual redundancy payment of over £40,000; and what the cost to the Mr Simon Burns: Estimates of the number of staff public purse has been of such redundancies since April voluntary and compulsory redundancies in both 2010-11 2010; [96456] and the latest period available, for the organisations (3) what information his Department holds on the named, are shown in the following table. number of staff that have been made redundant by Hull Teaching Primary Care Trust since April 2010; 2010-11 April 2011 to September 2011 what the average cost per staff member was of such Compulsory Voluntary Compulsory Voluntary redundancies; how many such redundancies involved an individual redundancy payment of over £40,000; Hull and East Yorkshire 00 00and what the cost to the public purse was of such Hospitals NHS Trust redundancies. [96457] Hull Teaching Primary 0631 7 Care Trust Mr Simon Burns: Information on the number, total Source: cost and average cost of exit packages, and the number Electronic Staff Record Data Warehouse and cost of exit packages over £40,000 for Hull Teaching Responsibility for determining the level of workforce Primary Care Trust (PCT) and the Hull and East Yorkshire required to ensure the delivery of high quality care is a Hospitals NHS Trust, in 2010-11, is shown in the following matter for the local national health service. table:

Total cost of exit Total number of exit Total cost of exit Total number of exit packages over packages packages Average cost of packages packages over £40,000 £40,000

Number £000 £000 Number £000

Hull PCT 79 3,795 48 35 3,127

Hull and East Yorkshire 00000 Hospitals NHS Trust

Notes: 1. This information is not collected centrally for foundation trusts. 2. Data are taken from the audited summarisation schedules of PCTs and national health service trusts, from which the NHS (England) Summarised Accounts are prepared. The disclosure in the accounts reports the number and value of exit packages taken by staff leaving in the year. 3. Exit packages include compulsory redundancies and other departures. The latter includes the cost of both early retirements (excluding those relating to ill health) and voluntary redundancies. It is not possible to separately identify the value of either of these costs from the data collected. An overall figure for redundancies is therefore not identifiable. 4. Figures for the 2011-12 financial year will be available in the summer, once the Department’s Annual Report and Accounts are laid before Parliament. 5. The expense associated with these departures may have been recognised in part or in full in a previous period. Source: Audited summarisation schedules of PCTs and NHS trusts 255W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 256W

NHS: Rural Areas FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE

Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for Afghanistan Health what plans he has for future funding of the NHS in rural areas; and if he will make a statement. 20. Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for [96424] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has made of the outcome of recent talks between Mr Simon Burns: Subject to the passage of the Health the Prime Minister and President of Afghanistan; and and Social Care Bill, from 2013-14 the NHS Commissioning if he will make a statement. [96709] Board would be responsible for the allocation of resources to clinical commissioning groups (CCGs). The Board Alistair Burt: The Prime Minister met President Karzai would allocate resources to CCGs in a way that supports on 28 January. They had a productive discussion on a the principle of securing equivalent access to NHS range of issues including transition, the peace process services relative to the prospective burden of disease and the international community’s long-term commitment and disability. In addition, from 2013-14, the Department to Afghanistan. They signed the UK-Afghan Enduring of Health will allocate a ring-fenced public health grant Strategic Partnership, signalling our shared vision of a to local authorities (LAs), for their new public health secure and stable Afghanistan. responsibilities. The Advisory Committee on Resource Allocation Business and Human Rights (ACRA), an independent committee comprising general practitioners, academics, public health experts and NHS 21. Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for managers, has been asked to continue to oversee the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what formulae for the distribution of NHS resources to both representations he has received on the potential effects CCGs and LAs. ACRA has considered the impact of of the legislative proposals in the Legal Aid, rurality on a number of occasions, and it is being Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill on the considered again as part of its current work programme: UK’s commitment to the UN guiding principles on ACRA’s recommendations will be published in due business and human rights. [96710] course. Actual allocations to CCGs and to LAs will be announced in late 2012. Mr Jeremy Browne: Members of the Foreign Secretary’s Advisory Group on Human Rights raised this issue in Ophthalmology: Shrewsbury and Telford Hospital NHS December. It has also been raised by other civil society Trust organisations and members of the public. Judiciary: Hungary Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many ophthalmologists were operating in Shrewsbury and Telford NHS Trust in (a) 2005, (b) 22. Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010 and (c) 2011. [96268] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations he has made to the Hungarian Mr Simon Burns: Data held by the National Health Government on state control of the judiciary in that Service Information Centre for health and social care country. [96711] show the number of ophthalmologists operating in Shrewsbury and Telford NHS Trust from 2005-10 in the Mr Jeremy Browne: An independent judiciary is necessary following table: for the preservation of democracy and fundamental freedoms. We have urged Hungary to consider the Numbers (headcount) and full-time equivalents (FTE) implications of their new laws and to continue working of which with the European Commission to ensure these laws are Consultants consistent with EU norms. All staff FTE (headcount) FTE

2005 13 13 6 6 Algeria 2006 14 14 6 6 2007 13 13 6 6 Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign 2008 12 12 6 6 and Commonwealth Affairs how many electoral 2009 13 13 6 6 observers from the UK he proposes will be present 20101 17 17 7 7 during the parliamentary elections in Algeria in May 1 The new headcount methodology for 2010 headcount data is not fully 2012. [96773] comparable with previous years data due to improvements that make it a more stringent count of absolute staff numbers. Further information on the headcount methodology is available in the Census publication. Alistair Burt: The Algerian Government have invited Notes: foreign election monitors to take part in observing the 1. Headcount totals are unlikely to equal the sum of components. 2. Data Quality elections in Algeria for the first time. This is a significant The Health and Social Care Information Centre seeks to minimise inaccuracies step, which we welcome. Although plans have not yet and the effect of missing and invalid data but responsibility for data accuracy been finalised, the EU, OSCE and a number of non lies with the organisations providing the data. Methods are continually being updated to improve data quality. Where changes impact on figures already governmental organisations and other regional published, this is assessed but unless it is significant at national level figures are organisations are considering taking part. We expect not changed. Impact at detailed or local level is footnoted in relevant analyses. embassy officials to take up this positive offer and are Source: The Health and Social Care Information Centre Medical and Dental Workforce also exploring with the Algerian authorities the options Census for Members of this House to participate. 257W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 258W

Bahrain Mr Bellingham: It is a condition of their employment that members of the diplomatic service must be prepared Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign to serve anywhere in the world at any time during their and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has had career, sometimes at very short notice. Those with children discussions regarding the staging of the Formula One have a legal obligation as parents to ensure that their Grand Prix in Bahrain; and if he will make a children receive a full-time education from the age of statement. [97213] five years. Most parents prefer to take their children with them abroad, but in some countries we do not Alistair Burt: The staging of the Formula One Grand permit staff to take their children either for health or Prix in Bahrain is entirely the decision of the Federation security reasons. In others, local schools of an acceptable Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA). We have not had standard are not available. It is longstanding practice any discussions regarding this event, nor have we made that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) any representations to the FIA. helps staff meet their potentially conflicting obligations by providing financial support for their children’s education China in the UK where staff choose this, or are obliged to do so given local conditions in the country to which they Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for are posted. Continuity of education is also an important Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent factor, particularly at secondary level. discussions he has had with the government of China The FCO refunds standard term fees up to a ceiling, on its population planning policies; and if he will make which is reviewed annually. The maximum amount the a statement. [96849] FCO will pay, currently £25,731 per year for a senior boarding child, is determined by an independent survey Mr Jeremy Browne: I have not had any recent discussions conducted by Employment Conditions Abroad (ECA), with the Chinese Government on the issue of their a private company who provide advice and information population planning policies. However, the Under-Secretary to public and private sector employers whose staff work of State for Health, the hon. Member for Guildford across the world. Various factors, including availability (Anne Milton), held discussions on the issue during her of places (sometimes at short notice) and proximity of visit to Beijing in November 2011. Anne Milton met the other family members, influence which schools staff Vice-Chair of the National Population and Family Planning choose for their children. Where staff opt to send their Commission (NPFPC) and discussed family planning children to more expensive schools staff meet the difference policy and China’s ageing population. in cost. Eton fees would be above the ceiling. Departmental Pay The FCO spent a total of £13,067,398 on UK schooling in financial year 2010-11. The final costs for the current financial year are not yet known as the last payments Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for are being processed, but the indications are that the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many final spend will be similar to last year’s. Based on the officials in (a) his Department and (b) the non- numbers and ages of children who are forecast to be departmental public bodies for which his Department attending school we expect to allocate a budget of is responsible are paid (i) £100,000 and (ii) £142,500 or around £13.5 million for 2012-13. more per annum. [97038] We do not routinely pay for children to attend Mr Bellingham: Details of salaries paid to senior staff independent day schools in the UK. But children, who in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office are published have previously boarded while parents were overseas, at regular intervals in line with Government policy on may become day pupils at the same school to continue transparency. their education whilst their parents are in the UK between postings. Additionally, a few children who The latest data are available at accompany parents overseas and are educated in the http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/publications-and-documents/ international system may need to attend a private school transparency-and-data1/fco-staff-salary/ in the UK to continue their education in that system http://www.britishcouncil.org/new/about-us/how-we-are-run/ during time spent here. Spending in this category accounts folder_how-we-are-run/who-manages-us/salaries-and- for around 15% of the total budget spend. expenses/ http://www.fcoservices.gov.uk/eng/ourorganisation/652.asp We are not able to provide details of payments made in connection with individual schools attended by children There are no staff employed by the Wilton Park of staff in the UK and overseas, in order to avoid Executive Agency, the Westminster Foundation for disclosures that, taken with other information, could Democracy or the Great Britain China Centre who are identify individual members of staff and their families. paid a salary greater than £100,000. Departmental Private Education Departmental Senior Civil Servants Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much his Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Department paid to send the children of civil servants Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many senior to (a) private boarding schools, (b) private day civil servants left his Department and its public bodies schools and (c) Eton College in (i) 2010-11 and (ii) in each month since May 2010; what their names are; 2011-12; how much he expects to allocate for such what the rate of turnover of senior civil servants in his purposes in 2012-13; and if he will make a statement. Department was during this period; and if he will make [96629] a statement. [96250] 259W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 260W

Mr Bellingham: Ninety senior management structure end of short-term loans to return to their parent (SMS) officers have left the Foreign and Commonwealth departments; and six left at the end of fixed-term Office (FCO) since May 2010. This includes those leaving appointments. the FCO Services Trading Fund. Data for the arms For reasons of personal privacy, it would not be length bodies is not held centrally and could be supplied appropriate to provide the names of senior civil servants only at disproportionate cost. who are no longer in Government employment. The number leaving each month was: In overall terms these figures represent a turnover rate for the 21 month period of roughly 22%. Number European Union: Business 2010: May 1 Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State June 2 for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his July 1 Department has spent on (a) consular services, (b) August 5 country-specific research, (c) hospitality and (d) September 4 promoting British business interests in each EU October 8 member state; and what proportion of the cost of November 5 running each embassy this amounts to. [94163] December 5 2011: Mr Hague: The following table provides details of the January 4 Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s (FCO) spend within February 2 each EU member state on consular services, hospitality March 16 and promoting British business interests during 2010-11 April 0 and the approximate proportion of the net operating May 0 costs these amount to. Details of the spend on country- June 4 specific research could be provided only at disproportionate July 4 cost. August 4 The FCO’s network of Posts plays a critical role in September 9 maintaining important bilateral relationships, helping October 3 to push the UK’s prosperity agenda and providing November 8 consular support to British nationals overseas. Net December 2 expenditure varies significantly from Post to Post, including 2012: between those of similar size. This is due to a range of January 3 factors including income received, for example for consular services, the value of the FCO’s locally owned estate Of the 90 leavers: 70 left on retirement, early retirement and other country-specific factors such as local staff or severance, resignation, permanent transfer to another salary levels and employers’ social security contributions, government department or career break; 14 left at the rental costs, and utility prices.

UKTI—promoting Business UKTI—promoting British business Consular as % Business hospitality as % British business interests as % Country Consular (£) country total hospitality (£) country total interests (£) country total

Austria 339,133 8 50,081 1 958,957 22 Belgium 202,120 3 21,874 0 2,944,302 37 Bulgaria 322,559 18 14,539 1 427,934 24 Cyprus 593,124 32 29,076 1 572,786 31 Czech Republic 298,611 13 16,402 0 876,101 37 Denmark 63,247 2 27,877 1 1,412,289 44 Estonia 57,039 6 2,282 0 302,736 31 Finland 138,924 5 25,257 1 1,563,348 55 France - 869,079 -11 272,904 2 3,602,975 46 Germany - 893,854 -6 153,218 1 5,046,766 36 Greece 1,092,200 24 34,003 1 1,122,480 25 Hungary 317,375 10 42,562 1 940,132 30 Ireland - 543,642 -64 59,979 3 953,862 112 Italy 1,489,948 32 86,588 2 2,231,857 48 Latvia 27,647 4 14,489 1 133,925 20 Lithuania 45,874 5 14,448 1 218,706 25 Luxembourg 295,745 27 13,317 1 199,885 18 Malta 388,062 24 21,111 1 29,949 2 The Netherlands 380,537 10 13,581 0 940,966 24 Poland 93,943 3 35,383 1 882,602 30 Portugal 803,846 26 20,105 0 1,164,628 37 261W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 262W

UKTI—promoting Business UKTI—promoting British business Consular as % Business hospitality as % British business interests as % Country Consular (£) country total hospitality (£) country total interests (£) country total

Romania 186,750 10 23,136 1 723,719 38 Slovakia 57,882 5 19,157 1 314,230 26 Slovenia 72,520 7 11,628 1 246,130 22 Spain 3,401,965 27 102,016 1 3,815,902 31 Sweden 318,302 10 33,762 1 1,164,629 38 Note: The percentages in the table are derived from net operating cost figures. Net costs exclude overheads, corporate and programme costs and some elementsof management support. In France, Germany and Ireland, income exceeded the net operating costs as these Posts received income through their role as regional passport processing hubs. This has produced negative figures/percentages or a percentage exceeding 100.

Libya Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is taking to encourage the Libyan government to protect Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State for citizens of sub-Sahara nations and regions from Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when (a) he and attacks by militia forces. [97090] (b) Ministers in his Department last met the Libyan government; and whether allegations of human rights abuses committed by government forces and associated Alistair Burt: I have raised the importance of respect militias were discussed. [97088] for minority groups in Libya in discussions with the Libyan Government, most recently with the Libyan Deputy Minister for Civil Society, Dr Atia Lawgali. We Alistair Burt: The Minister of State, Foreign and have also worked through the UN to press the Libyan Commonwealth Office, the hon. Member for Taunton Government to take proper account of this issue. Deane (Mr Browne), and I both raised our serious concerns regarding the recent allegations of mistreatment The Prime Minister, the Minister of State, Foreign and torture in Libya with the Libyan Interior Minister and Commonwealth Office, my hon. Friend the Member when he visited the UK in late January. The Prime for Taunton Deane (Mr Browne), and I raised the UK’s Minister, also reiterated these concerns to the Minister serious concerns about the treatment of all detainees, during his visit. Our ambassador in Tripoli has also including those of sub-Saharan origin, being held by raised this issue with members of the Libyan Transitional militia forces in separate meetings with the Libyan Government. Interior Minister, Mr Abdilal, during his recent visit to the UK. We pressed for concrete action. Mr Abdilai The Libyan Deputy Prime Minister announced on 31 confirmed that bringing all detainees under full government January that all allegations of mistreatment will be control was a high priority for the Libyan authorities investigated. He also announced that officials from the and reassured us that action was in hand. The Libyan Ministries of Justice and Interior would visit detention Deputy Prime Minister announced last month the centres and begin the process of bringing all detention formation of a committee to begin the process of bringing facilities under central control. The UK has already all detention facilities under the central control of the provided training to Libyan judges and legal professionals Justice Ministry. He also stated that all allegations of and will be providing further support, including on mistreatment would be investigated. prison reform. The UK will continue to urge the Transitional Government to live up to their human We continue to monitor the situation closely, and rights commitments. work with the EU and UN on this issue.

Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State for Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assistance Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the UK has provided to the Libyan Government to representations he has made to the Libyan government integrate militia forces in the Libyan armed forces. to allow the Mshashiya and Tawergha peoples who [97089] have been displaced to remain in their homes. [97091]

Alistair Burt: The complex process for integrating Alistair Burt: When I met the Deputy Minister for militias forces in Libya into the state security services is Culture and Civil Society, Dr Atia Lawgali, during his led by the Libyan authorities with international support recent visit to the UK, I stressed the importance of led by the UN Support Mission in Libya (UNSMIL). forming an inclusive society in the new Libya. Our Through our embassy in Tripoli, the Government have ambassador in Tripoli has spoken to the Deputy Foreign been working closely with UNSMIL to help shape and Minister about how reconciliation between different implement the Libyan Government’s plan, including communities, particularly the Tawergha could be achieved. through a security workshop in Tripoli on 20 and We are also working closely with the UN who have 21 February. A UK senior policing adviser is assisting called on the Libyan Government to investigate recent the Minister of Interior with police reform, including attacks on the Tawergha community. UN Security Council reintegration of militia members. Our defence adviser Resolution 2009 highlights the need to protect members in Tripoli continues to monitor the reintegration programme, of minority communities. and the British Government are looking at options to UK officials in Libya are in contact with a wide provide rapid strategic advice to the Libyan Ministry of variety of minority groups and will continue to raise Defence. their concerns with the Transitional Government. 263W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 264W

Mali Alistair Burt: We regularly discuss the political and economic situation in Gaza with the Israeli and Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Palestinian authorities, and on occasion with the Egyptian and Commonwealth Affairs what steps his Department Government. In those discussions, we have argued for a has taken to support the Presidential elections in Mali relaxation of Israeli access and movement restrictions in April 2012. [96771] on Gaza; expressed our concern at the frequent exchange of rocket attacks and air strikes; and set out our position Mr Bellingham: The British Government, along with on reconciliation between Hamas and Fatah. I most its EU partners, supports the democratic process in recently raised the situation in Gaza with the Deputy Mali and is committed to peace, security and stability Israeli Foreign Minister on 18 January while Gaza was across the region. Our ambassador in Bamako has a subject of discussion during President Abbas’s visit to regularly made our support clear to the Malian Government London on 15-17 January. and will be taking part in an informal election observer team along with other EU embassies. Saudi Arabia

Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for and Commonwealth Affairs how many electoral Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions observers from the UK he proposes will be present he has had with the Secretary of State for Business, during the presidential elections in Mali in April 2012. Innovation and Skills on measures to increase exports [96772] to Saudi Arabia. [96697] Mr Bellingham: There are no plans to send official UK observers to the presidential elections in Mali in Alistair Burt: Increasing UK exports to Saudi Arabia April 2012. Our embassy in Bamako will be part of an was last discussed at ministerial level at the Gulf Initiative informal election observer team along with other EU ministerial meeting on 9 February 2012, which I chaired. embassies. The EU will send a technical mission to There are significant opportunities in the education, support the electoral authorities in Mali. We will continue health care and financial services sectors; we believe to work with regional organisations to identify opportunities these to be key areas for both countries. for additional observer missions. Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Nigeria Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will consider commissioning the setting up of a British Trade Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Pavilion in Riyadh to showcase British goods and and Commonwealth Affairs what steps his Department services. [96875] is taking to protect Christians in Nigeria from persecution; and if he will make a statement. [96915] Alistair Burt: The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member Mr Bellingham: The British Government are concerned for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), has no plans to by the loss of life suffered by both Christian and Muslim commission a British Trade Pavilion in Riyadh. However, communities in Nigeria due to recent violent attacks, the British Government are committed to enhancing many of which have been claimed by Boko Haram and our trade relationship with Saudi Arabia and to showcasing existing inter-communal conflict. The Secretary of State British goods and services across the globe, including in for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Riyadh. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), has condemned the 20 January attacks in Kano and the Senegal Christmas day attacks in Yobe, Plateau and Niger states. The British Government are working with the Nigerian Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Government to ensure that all Nigerians can live in and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has peace. The Prime Minister reaffirmed our joint commitment received on the decision by Senegal’s constitutional to tackling security and terrorism when he met President court to allow current Senegal President Abdoulaye Jonathan on 22 February 2012. Britain has shared Wade to stand for a third term. [96018] experience on counter-terrorism policy, doctrine and legal frameworks, providing assistance in areas. The Mr Bellingham: The British Government are aware of Department for International Development also operates the controversy surrounding the Senegal Constitutional programmes in Nigeria that focus on addressing grievances Court’s decision on the eligibility of President Wade to underlying conflict. Furthermore, through our high contest a third term. Ultimately however it is the Senegalese commission in Abuja, the Foreign and Commonwealth people who will choose their next President. The Senegalese Office has promoted a number of bridge building initiatives people voted on 26 February in a calm atmosphere. We and supported a conference in Kano that brought together now await the official results. We welcome the deployment local leaders to discuss Islam, peace building and political of the EU Election Observation Mission to observe engagement. these elections and look forward to their report in due course. Palestinians Sri Lanka Mr Hollobone: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for his Department has had with the (a) Egyptian, (b) Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many UK Palestinian and (c) Israeli governments on the political nationals have requested consular support in Sri Lanka and economic situation in the Gaza strip. [96820] in the past month. [96963] 265W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 266W

Alistair Burt: The British high commission in Colombo (2) what reports he has received on the (a) trial and provided consular assistance in relation to 28 British (b) imprisonment of Sarath Fonseka in Sri Lanka. nationals in January 2012, the last full month for which [96970] statistics are available. This included assistance with regards to lost passports, hospitalisations and approaches Alistair Burt: On 18 November 2011, former Chief of to the consular section for advice, including in regards the Sri Lankan Army and presidential candidate, Sarath to the transfer of money overseas and liaising with local Fonseka, was found guilty of spreading rumours likely authorities. to cause public alarm and disorder and sentenced to three years in prison. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for We have not made specific representations on the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent case of Sarath Fonseka, but the UK consistently urges reports he has received on the number of political the Sri Lankan Government to ensure that the law is prisoners in Sri Lanka. [96965] fairly and objectively applied in all cases.

Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Alistair Burt: We are concerned about the number of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent individuals who continue to be detained without charge discussions he has had with his international following the conflict. We regularly receive reports from counterparts on the treatment by the Government of civil society organisations regarding these detainees. Sri Lanka of Sarath Fonseka. [96971]

Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Alistair Burt: I have regular discussions with international Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (1) what recent counterparts about Sri Lanka, but have not recently assessment he has made of the efficacy of the judicial discussed Sarath Fonseka. Our high commission in process in Sri Lanka; [96966] Colombo has had discussions about the Sarath Fonseka case with other diplomatic missions. (2) what recent assessment he has made of the conformity of Sri Lanka with international standards Syria of judicial independence and integrity. [96967]

Mr Love: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Alistair Burt: Sri Lanka has a developed judicial and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment he system, but there are significant challenges to effective has made of the political situation in Syria. [96698] criminal justice and rule of law. The Lessons Learnt and Reconciliation Commission’s report, issued by the Sri Lankan Government, found that Mr Hague: I have made clear repeatedly that President Assad has lost legitimacy and must step down. An “a large number of persons having political patronage had inclusive Syrian-led political process is needed, which committed offences, but the long arm of the law had not reached addresses the legitimate aspirations of the Syrian people. them because of the political pressure exerted on law enforcement authorities.” We recognise the Syrian National Council as a legitimate representative of the Syrian people seeking peaceful We also have concerns about the use of the Prevention democratic change. It is for the Syrian people to take of Terrorism Act to detain some suspects for prolonged forward their aspirations for a more open, inclusive periods without charge. political future. The Special Rapporteur on the Independence of Judges and Lawyers has requested a visit to Sri Lanka, but this Taxis has not been taken up by the Sri Lankan Government; we urge them to do so. Mr David: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much his Department Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for has spent on taxis in each of the last two years. [93466] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations he has received from (a) the Mr Lidington: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office International Crisis Group, (b) Amnesty International (FCO) currently uses two contracts in the UK with and (c) Human Rights Watch on the treatment by the private hire companies: Addison Lee, covering the London Sri Lankan Government of Sarath Fonseka. [96968] area and Raffles Taxis covering the Milton Keynes area. The following spend for both of these two suppliers Alistair Burt: We have received representations about for the FCO and FCO Services is as follows; Sri Lanka from all of these organisations, but not specifically on the case of Sarath Fonseka. £ 2010-11 318,688.92 1 Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011-12 231,469.31 1 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (1) whether he (a) To December. has made and (b) plans to make representations to the Procurement activity overseas is devolved to our network Government of Sri Lanka on the prison sentence given of over 260 posts across 170 countries. Information on to Sarath Fonseka; and if he will make a statement; taxi use by FCO staff overseas is not held centrally and [96969] could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. 267W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 268W

TREASURY Mr Gauke: Business rates are annually uprated by RPI inflation. The Government keep all taxes under Action for Employment review and all representations are taken into consideration. The autumn statement of 29 November 2011, Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Chancellor of the Official Report, columns 799-810, announced the Exchequer what contracts his Department has with 2012-13 deferral scheme which will give businesses A4e; and what the (a) purpose and (b) monetary the opportunity to defer 60% of the RPI increase in value is of each such contract. [97025] 2012-13 business rates bills, and also a further six month extension of the Small Business Rates Relief holiday Miss Chloe Smith: HM Treasury does not have any from 1 October 2012. contracts with A4e. Planning Permission Gift Aid: Leeds Caroline Lucas: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 7 December Greg Mulholland: To ask the Chancellor of the 2011, Official Report, columns 368-9W, on planning: Exchequer how many charities registered in Leeds expenditure, what recent estimate his Department has North West constituency have applied for Gift Aid in made of the financial benefits of the planning system each of the last five years; and how much such charities to the UK economy; and if he will make a statement. have received through Gift Aid in each of the last five [96736] years. [96984] Miss Chloe Smith: Good planning can bring substantial Miss Chloe Smith: HM Revenue and Customs does economic and financial benefits, in particular through not separately identify Gift Aid claims by regions of the providing predictability for applicants and co-ordinating UK. development. The Government’s aim is to improve the Amounts of tax repaid to charities in the UK on role planning plays in supporting the economy, by donations under Gift Aid are published in Table 10.1 on providing clearer and simpler policy guidance and focusing the HMRC website at: the planning system on delivering sustainable development www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/charities/menu.htm and growth. In 2010-11 a total of £1,081 billion (provisional figure) was repaid to UK charities under Gift Aid. Tax Avoidance

Monetary Policy Mr Laws: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimate his Department has made of the number Mr Carswell: To ask the Chancellor of the of people non-domiciled for UK tax purposes in (a) Exchequer what estimate his Department has made of 2009-10, (b) 2010-11 and (c) 2011-12; and if he will the likely level of costs of borrowing if quantitative make a statement. [96484] easing had not been implemented. [97145] Mr Gauke: Based on initial analysis of self assessment Mr Hoban: The independent Monetary Policy (SA) returns received to date, 118,000 individuals indicated Committee sets monetary policy, including quantitative non-domicile status for the 2009-10 tax year which is easing through the Asset Purchase Facility (APF), in the most recent tax year for which data are available. order to meet the 2% inflation target over the medium However, this figure may need to be revised once data term. for all tax returns in that year have been analysed. The Bank of England has estimated that quantitative easing (QE) carried out between March 2009 and January Taxation: Business 2010 had a downward impact on gilt yields. Alex Cunningham: To ask the Chancellor of the In addition, the clear and credible consolidation plan Exchequer what steps he plans to take to improve set out by the Government have resulted in the UK transparency relating to tax in businesses under public continuing to be seen as a relative safe haven. This has sector control. [96552] helped keep interest rates lower for families, businesses and taxpayers. Mr Gauke: “Managing Public Money” provides the guidance for public spending against which Departments Non-domestic Rates are audited, and applies to all central Government organisations and civil servants. Derek Twigg: To ask the Chancellor of the www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/mpm_ch4.pdf Exchequer (1) what assessment he has made of the Following questions about the pay arrangements around potential effect of the 5.6 per cent. increase in business the appointment of the chief executive of the Student rates planned for April 2012 on (a) the retail sector Loans Company, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and (b) small stores; [96633] the right hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch (2) what recent representations he has received on and Strathspey (Danny Alexander), has asked officials the potential effect of the 5.6 per cent. increase in to review public sector appointments and tax arrangements business rates planned for April 2012 on business including where payments are made through a personal growth. [96647] service company. 269W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 270W

The Treasury officer of accounts has also written to 31 July 2009. Our programme of officer training in the departmental accounting officers to remind them that UK continues and has not suffered any significant public sector organisations should not use artificial tax problems. Training in Iraq through the NATO training avoidance devices. mission came to an end in December 2011. Taxation: Debts Written Off Air Training Corps: Disciplinary Proceedings

Alex Cunningham: To ask the Chancellor of the Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Exchequer if he will publish details of each tax what average length of time was taken to resolve write-off in excess of £500,000 made by HM Revenue suspension of an officer of the Air Training Corps in and Customs since May 2010. [96551] (a) 2010 and (b) 2011; how long has been taken on average in 2012; and if he will make a statement. Mr Gauke: The information requested is not readily [96563] available and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Mr Robathan: Three cases of officers of the Air Table 9.2 on page 157 of HM Revenue and Customs’ Training Corps suspended during 2010 and 2011 have (HMRC) 2010-11 annual accounts sets out the amounts been resolved. No cases from 2012 have been resolved of revenue that HMRC remitted and wrote off in 2009-10 as of 20 February. One case from 2010 was resolved and 2010-11. The HMRC annual accounts are available after an 18 month period. Two cases from 2011 have at: been resolved, one after six months, the other one http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/about/annual-report-accounts- month. 1011.pdf Tax debts are remitted where they are capable of Apache Helicopters being recovered but HMRC decides not to pursue a liability. It does this: when the value of a debt is small Mr Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for compared with the likely cost of recovering it; when Defence how many Apache helicopters are based in enforcing payment would cause an individual, or his or Afghanistan. [97154] her dependents, to suffer financial hardship; or where an earlier error by HMRC would make it inappropriate Mr Gerald Howarth: I am withholding the information or unfair for it to enforce payment. as its disclosure would, or would be likely to, prejudice HMRC writes-off debts when they have become the capability, effectiveness or security of the armed irrecoverable because there are no practical means for forces. pursuing the debt. This applies where taxpayers have Mr Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for gone missing and HMRC has not been able to trace Defence how many Apache helicopters there are in the their current whereabouts or where they have moved (a) RoyalNavyand(b) Royal Marines. [97155] overseas to a territory outside the European Union with which the UK has no reciprocal recovery rights. Mr Gerald Howarth: None. All Apache helicopters Debts are also written off where individuals or companies are Army assets. However, some Apache helicopters are have become insolvent. When this happens, HMRC flown by aircrew from the Royal Navy and the Royal aims to recover a proportion of what it is owed consistent Marines, as part of a longstanding tri-service exchange with its legal rights as a creditor, and it writes off the tax programme. that cannot be recovered in this way. Mr Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Taxation: Oil Defence what weapons systems are used by the Apache Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Chancellor of the helicopter. [97162] Exchequer how much taxation revenue came from Mr Gerald Howarth: The Apache AH Mk1 weapons onshore oil production in England in (a) 2005 and (b) systems are 30mm Automatic Cannon, wing mounted 2011. [96879] 70mm Ariel Rocket and Hellfire Modular Missile Systems. Miss Chloe Smith: Total revenues from all UK oil and The Apache is capable of carrying any combination of gas production activities are published by HMRC, but these pylon-mounted rockets and/or missiles. it is not possible to identify accurately the split between The Apache AH Mk1 factsheet, is available on the total onshore and offshore revenues, or by region. Ministry of Defence website at: http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/Factsheets/ EquipmentFactsheets/ApacheAhMk1.htm

DEFENCE Mr Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Afghanistan: Peace Keeping Operations Defence what assessment he has made of the performance of Apache during Operation Ellamy. Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for [97227] Defence what lessons his Department has learned from the experience of the supply of post-withdrawal (a) Mr Gerald Howarth: Apache helicopters performed equipment and (ii) training packages in Iraq. [95596] well on Operation Ellamy, deploying from HMS Ocean for the first time, and made a substantial contribution Nick Harvey [holding answer 23 February 2012]: The to the NATO mission to enforce UN Security Council Ministry of Defence has not supplied any equipment to Resolution 1973 and protect the civilian population of Iraq since before the end of Combat Operations on Libya. 271W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 272W

Mr Ellwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Armed Forces: Training Defence if his Department plans to develop a permanent helicopter carrier capability which would include Apache helicopters. [97228] Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will update the Defence Training Review 2000 to take account of the 2010-15 Strategic Defence Mr Gerald Howarth: The means for delivering our and Security Review for the purposes of calculation future landing platform helicopter (LPH) capability and assessment of future military training needs. have not yet been decided, nor has the eventual out-of- [95634] service date of HMS Ocean, which provides the current capability.These decisions will be taken to ensure coherence with the introduction into service of the new Queen Mr Robathan: There are no current plans to update Elizabeth class aircraft carriers. Defence Training Review 2000 because the Strategic Defence and Security Review process offered, and will While not originally designed as a maritime helicopter, continue to offer, the opportunity to review training the Ministry of Defence has modified and cleared the and education across Defence. Apache to support maritime operations, such as those demonstrated from HMS Ocean on Op Ellamy (Libya). The Government believes that a modern carrier capability Departmental Lost Property should be able to undertake a variety of roles, and the flexibility of the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers will allow them to be optimised around an air group Mr David Davis: To ask the Secretary of State for consisting of the joint strike fighter and Merlin helicopter, Defence how many of the (a) desktop computers, (b) with a number of other platforms, including Apache, laptop computers, (c) mobile telephones, (d) designated as ’secondary aircraft’. BlackBerrys, (e) CD and DVD discs, (f) removable hard disk drives, (g) printers, (h) backup tapes, (i) USB memory sticks and (j) other IT assets that were Armed Forces: Private Education reported lost in 2011 were lost in (i) the UK and (ii) overseas. [96580] Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many staff in his Department were in Mr Robathan [holding answer 27 February 2012]: receipt of the continuity of education allowance in (a) The MOD takes any loss of CIS and associated media 2009-10 and (b) 2010-11; and what the cost to his storage devices very seriously and has robust procedures Department was in respect of staff based (i) in the UK in place to stop this happening, and investigate when it and (ii) overseas in each year. [96593] does. New processes, instructions and technological aids are also being implemented to reduce to a minimum human error and raise the awareness of every individual Mr Robathan [holding answer 27 February 2012]: in the MOD. The purpose of continuity of education allowance (CEA) is to allow the children of service personnel to achieve a The following table sets out how many (a) desktop stable education against a background of parental postings computers, (b) laptop computers, (c) mobile telephones, both at home and overseas. (d) BlackBerrys, (e) CD and DVD discs, (f) removable hard disk drives, (g) printers, (h) backup tapes, (i) The amount paid to service personnel based in the USB memory sticks and (j) other IT assets that were UK and overseas for financial years 2009-10 and 2010-11 reported lost in 2011 were lost in (i) the UK and (ii) can be found in the following table. overseas.

Number of Amount paid to Amount paid to CIS Asset Lost within UK Lost overseas Total Financial personnel receiving personnel in UK (£ personnel overseas year CEA million) (£ million) Desktop 123 computers 2009-10 6,020 90.9 20.4 Laptop computers 36 20 56 2010-11 6,090 94.6 20.2 Mobile telephones 8 1 9 BlackBerry’s 10 0 10 Elements of CEA are subject to a pay-as-you-earn CD and DVDs 78 162 240 (PAYE)settlement agreement with Her Majesty’s Revenue Removable hard 30 9 39 and Customs (HMRC) for tax purposes. Therefore, in disk drives addition to the money paid to individuals, the MOD Printers 2 0 2 also makes payments to HMRC for tax and national Backup tapes 4 1 5 insurance (NI) following the grossing up of CEA. The USB Memory 28 6 34 amounts paid for financial years 2009-10 and 2010-11 sticks can be found in the following table. Notes: 1. These are only the incidents that were reported to the Joint Security Co-ordination Centre (JSyCC) and may not include any losses which are in the Financial year Tax and NI costs1 (£ million) reporting process. 2. These totals do not include incidents which are currently under investigation 2009-10 65.6 and may also include some losses relating to accounting anomalies during force 2010-11 283.4 rotation and/or disposal activities: 3. The data does not necessarily take account of assets that have subsequently 1 Costs for tax and NI quoted are for all personnel, irrespective of location. 2 been found or returned. To determine where this is the case, each incident would The significant increase in Tax and NI costs are due to a variety of factors have to be individually reviewed in detail and it has not been possible to do so in including an increase in the value of the PAYE settlement with HMRC and the time available. changes in tax bands. 273W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 274W

Members: Correspondence Burma

Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence when he expects to answer the letter from the International Development how much aid he allocated hon. Member for Harrow West on the answering of a to Burma in 2011-12; and what estimate he has made of parliamentary question on civil servant salary the allocation for (a) 2012-13 and (b) 2013-14. [96857] arrangements; and if he will make a statement. [96590] Mr Andrew Mitchell: British aid to Burma will Mr Robathan [holding answer 27 February 2012]: combat the spread of drug-resistant malaria, improve The hon. Member’s letter of 16 February 2012 was healthcare, avert 153,000 unintended pregnancies, improve received by the Ministry of Defence on 20 February; I livelihoods, strengthen civil society, help 200,000 children will respond shortly. In the interim, I can confirm that complete primary school, and support conflict affected the answer I gave on 10 January 2012, Official Report, people. column 17W, was correct. In 2011-12 £36 million has been allocated towards these efforts. For 2013-13 the allocation is £36 million, and for 2013-14 the allocation is £55 million. In January INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT this year £2 million worth of funding was announced for humanitarian work in Kachin state, this funding is A4e in addition to the figures quoted above.

Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Sir Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what contracts his International Development what estimate he has made Department has with A4e; and what the (a) purpose of the number of people living in relocation sites as a and (b) value is of each such contract. [97022] result of the Myitsone Dam project in Burma; what Mr Duncan: There have been no contracts centrally assistance his Department has provided for such people let by the Department for International Development in the last year; and if he will make a statement. with A4e. [97109] Afghanistan Mr Duncan: Sources suggest about 400 households, including around 2,000 people, have been displaced to a Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for new village. The Department for International Development International Development what assessment he has has made no specific allocation to those re-located but made of the effect which the withdrawal of ISAF is supporting NGOs which are providing assistance to combat troops from Afghanistan before the end of 27,500 internally displaced people in other areas of 2014 will have on the gross national income of that Kachin State over the next four months. country. [96732] It is important that the Burmese Government listen to the needs and interests of their people in deciding the Mr Andrew Mitchell: The World Bank recently published future of this project. We note that Aung San Suu Kyi a report on effect of transition including the withdrawal supported the President’s decision to suspend the of International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) troops construction during her meeting with the Burmese Minister on the economy of Afghanistan. It used figures for of Labour on 30 September 2011. We welcome this Gross Domestic Product (GDP), rather than the Gross further stage of dialogue and urge the Burmese Government National Income (GNI), and our discussions with to ensure that it continues. international partners have therefore been based around GDP. The report forecasts a budget shortfall of around Departmental Pay 40% of GDP by 2014-15 and 25% of GDP by 2021-22 ($7.2 billion at 2011 prices). This includes both security Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for and development costs. International Development how many officials in (a) At the Bonn Conference in December the international his Department and (b) the non-departmental public community, including the UK, agreed in principle to bodies for which his Department is responsible are paid provide long-term financial support in line with the (i) £100,000 and (ii) £142,500 or more per annum. Government of Afghanistan’s priorities. Further discussions [97041] on these issues will take place at the Chicago and Tokyo international conferences later this year. The UK continues Mr Duncan: The Department for International to support the Afghan Government to increase its tax Development (DFID) has: (i) seven officials who are revenue and encourage economic growth to help reduce paid between £100,000 and £142,499; and (ii) one official dependency on aid overtime. who is paid £142,500 or more. Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Private Education International Development what estimate he has made of the gross national income of Afghanistan in 2011. Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for [96733] International Development how much his Department paid to send the children of civil servants to (a) private Mr Andrew Mitchell: Estimates for Afghanistan’s boarding schools in total, (b) private day schools in gross national income (GNI) in 2011 are not yet available. total and (c) Eton College in (i) 2010-11 and (ii) The Afghan financial (and calendar) year ends in March 2011-12; how much he expects to allocate for such 2012. Afghanistan’s GNI in 2010 was US$14.3 billion, purposes in 2012-13; and if he will make a statement. an increase of 16% on the previous year. [96627] 275W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 276W

Mr Duncan: The Department for International Departmental Senior Civil Servants Development (DFID) reimburses employees on overseas postings for private schooling overseas or boarding Mr Thomas: To ask the Attorney-General how many school fees in the UK for their children, within financial senior civil servants left the Law Officers’ Departments ceilings. and their public bodies in each month since May 2010; The terms and conditions of employment in DFID what their names are; what the rate of turnover of are set in order to recruit, motivate and retain staff who senior civil servants in the Law Officers’ Departments are skilled and equipped to meet DFID’s objectives. was during this period; and if he will make a statement. Those with children have a legal obligation as parents [96355] to ensure that their children receive a full-time education The Solicitor-General: Information on the number of from the age of five, and they pay UK tax wherever they senior civil servants who have left the Law Officers’ work. Most parents prefer to take their children with Departments is contained in the following table. them, but in some countries they are not permitted to do so, either for health or security reasons. Continuity TSol AGOHMCPSI SFO CPS of education is also an important factor, particularly at secondary level. May 2010 1——— 3 Our central records relate to education allowance June 2010 — — 1 — 0 paid to Home Civil Service staff serving overseas to July2010 ———— 1 assist with school fees in the UK or in an overseas August 2010 2——— 4 location and are not held in a format that allows for the September 2010 1 1 — — 2 disaggregation between boarding school and private October2010 1——— 1 day school payments. We do not hold a central record November 2010 ———— 1 of school fees which are paid locally by overseas offices December 2010 ———— 0 in respect of children in education in these countries. January 2011 ———— 0 The amount spent on education allowance by DFID February 2011 ———— 1 was: March 2011 3——— 1 April 2011 — 1 — — 1 Financial year Total (£) May 2011 2 — — 2 1 2010-11 1,061,307 June 2011 ———— 0 2011-12 (April to January) 931,591 July 2011 — — — 1 0 August 2011 1——— 0 Our records show no children of DFID staff September 2011 — — — 1 0 attended Eton College during the periods 2010-11 and October2011 1——— 1 2011-12. November 2011 ———— 0 The amount that DFID will pay on education allowance December 2011 ———— 0 in 2012-13 will be dependant on the number, of school January 2012 1 1 — 1 0 age children, of staff working overseas. We would estimate February 2012 4——— 0 the amount will be similar to the previous two years Total 17 3 1 5 17 provided in the table.

Turnover rate (May 126 50 85.9 2010 to February ATTORNEY-GENERAL 2012) (percentage) 1 Includes AGO and HMCPSI data as TSol fulfil the personnel Departmental Pay functions for both organisations. 2 The CPS turnover is not representative of the reduction in staffing numbers—in real terms the reduction of SCS staff over this period is Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Attorney-General how 47%. many officials in (a) his Department and (b) the Names have been withheld as it would be inappropriate non-departmental public bodies for which his to reveal the identities of individuals who may no Department is responsible are paid (i) £100,000 and (ii) longer work for the Government. £142,500 or more per annum. [97031] The Solicitor-General: The information requested is EDUCATION contained in the following table. Children: Protection Number of civil servants paid £100,000 or higher £100,000 to Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Organisation £142,499 £142,500 or more Education what steps the Government is taking with Attorney-General’s Office 1 0 parents to reduce the incidence of child neglect. [96465] Her Majesty’s Crown 0 11 Prosecution Service Tim Loughton: The Government continue to support Inspectorate the development and implementation of a number of Treasury Solicitor’s 51evidence based interventions for families where children Department are on the edge of care, including a particular programme Serious Fraud Office 2 1 focusing on child abuse and neglect. These are therapeutic Crown Prosecution Service 24 3 interventions with a recognised evidence base which 1 Public appointment on a fixed salary of £150,000 (no pension have demonstrated effectiveness in significantly improving provision)—not a civil servant. parenting skills. 277W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 278W

Maltreating children is wholly unacceptable and the Sarah Teather: The Government have made considerable Government strongly believe that the responsibility lies progress on provision of family and relationship support. within us to prevent children from suffering harm and The Government attach a high priority to supporting to help those who have been abused or neglected. In line couple relationships and have committed a dedicated with this, the Government have agreed with the fund of £30 million over the spending review period. A recommendations put forward by Professor Munro to range of expert providers are being funded to deliver provide support to children and families as soon as a activities including work to normalise the take up of need is identified. support, innovative preventative services, counselling The Department also funds a range of family support for couples experiencing difficulties and support for services delivered by the voluntary sector, such as Family when relationships breakdown. Research has also been Lives, Gingerbread and the Family Rights Group. Parents commissioned to test the efficacy of a number of can turn to these organisations to seek advice and interventions and a procurement exercise has been launched support in their parenting or if particular issues are a to test ways of promoting relationship support for first concern, such as involvement with children’s services. time parents. Education Funding Agency: Manpower In July 2011, the Department contracted with 11 organisations to provide family support services Dan Rogerson: To ask the Secretary of State for online and through telephone helplines. The most recent Education what estimate he has made of the number of figures (from January 2012) show that the services have people who will be employed by the Education been contacted by 3.2 million parents over the previous Funding Agency in (a) 2012-13, (b) 2013-14 and (c) seven months, of which, 340,000 were seeking advice 2014-15. [96287] and guidance and 69,000 intensive support, with the remainder seeking a wide range of parenting information. Mr Gibb [holding answer 27 February 2012]: The The Department has also provided grant funding to precise number of staff for the Education Funding voluntary and community sector (VCS) organisations Agency is under discussion, but, in broad terms, the for a number of projects, including: agency will have around 750 to 800 staff in 2012-13. The vast majority of the staff will have worked previously School-home Support, to train professionals who work with in the Young People’s Learning Agency or Partnerships parents in and around schools. This will allow schools to be better placed to reach out and help more families support their children’s for Schools or will have moved to the agency from education. elsewhere in the Department for Education. Staffing numbers for subsequent years will be reviewed in due Home-Start UK, to support and advise local Home Start course. The agency’s staff will all be employees of the schemes which provide help in the home by trained volunteers for Department. vulnerable families with children under five. Booktrust, for a new book gifting programme; including new Dan Rogerson: To ask the Secretary of State for targeted elements providing extra support to families for whom Education what estimate he has made of the number of books and reading for pleasure are not yet such a part of staff who will transfer from the Young Person’s everyday life. Learning Agency to the Education Funding Agency. The Department announced on 18 October 2011 that [96288] a trial of universal parenting classes for mothers and fathers of children 0-5 years will run from spring 2012 Mr Gibb [holding answer 27 February 2012]: 580 in three areas (Middlesbrough, High Peak (Derbyshire), posts will move from the Young Person’s Learning and the London borough of Camden) aimed at over Agency (YPLA) to the Education Funding Agency on 50,000 parents. The trial will test how best a commercial 1 April 2012. The large majority of these posts will be market in parenting classes for all parents can be established. filled by staff employed by the YPLA on 31 March. The aim is to provide early support for parents and Around 27 posts will be filled by Department staff families before problems escalate. Better information previously on secondment to the YPLA. early on reduces the likelihood of families requiring more expensive support from public services later on. Education Maintenance Allowance On 15 December 2011, the Prime Minister announced Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for further details of his commitment to turn around the Education what recent discussions (a) he and (b) lives of 120,000 troubled families by the end of this Ministers in his Department have had with charities on Parliament. £448 million has been brought together for the effects of the withdrawal of education maintenance this programme of work, which is led by Louise Casey allowance. [95084] in the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG). Departments contributing funding are Education, Tim Loughton: None of the Department for Education Health, Work and Pensions, the Home Office and the Ministers have formally discussed the education Ministry of Justice. The troubled families team in DCLG maintenance allowance with charities since the beginning is also working with the LGA, councils, front-line workers of this year. and families themselves to develop the delivery of this work. The programme will have specific objectives including Families those of reducing crime and antisocial behaviour, getting adults on the path to work and children back into Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for school. If successful, this will mean significant savings Education what progress he is making on provision of to both central and local government, as by reducing family and relationship support at times of additional the number of troubled families, we will be freeing up pressure. [95860] money in the longer term. 279W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 280W

GCSE Yorkshire and (c) Yorkshire and Humber sat history GCSE exams in each of the last 10 years for which figures are available. [95195] Mr David Davis: To ask the Secretary of State for Education (1) what proportion of year 11 students in Mr Gibb [holding answer 20 February 2012]: The (a) Haltemprice and Howden constituency, (b) East information requested can be found in the following Yorkshire and (c) Yorkshire and Humber sat a modern table for 2007/08 to 2009/11 for modern foreign language foreign language GCSE exam in each of the last 10 GCSEs and 2004/05 to 2009/11 for history GCSEs. years for which figures are available; [95173] Data for earlier years can be provided only at (2) what proportion of Year 11 students in (a) disproportionate cost. Constituency level data for 2010/11 Haltemprice and Howden constituency, (b) East are not yet available.

Percentages of pupils1, 2 at the end of key stage 4 who sat modern foreign language3 and history GCSEs4,5 in Haltemprice and Howden constituency6, East riding and Yorkshire local authority7, Yorkshire and the Humber region8 and England9—Years: 2004/05-2009/10—Coverage: England Percentages of KS4 pupils who sat GCSEs in: 2004/05 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 2010/11

Modern Foreign Language3 Haltemprice and Howden n/a n/a n/a 43.1 43.0 41.6 n/a East Riding and Yorkshire n/a n/a n/a 43.9 44.6 43.9 38.4 Yorkshire and the Humber n/a n/a n/a 36.6 37.0 35.3 32.6 England n/a n/a n/a 41.5 41.3 40.4 38.5

History Haltemprice and Howden 36.7 37.0 31,8 29.6 34.4 31.9 n/a East Riding and Yorkshire 36.1 38.1 37.3 36.2 36.2 38.3 37.3 Yorkshire and the Humber 29.6 29.8 28.4 27.8 28.1 27.9 28.3 England 30.9 31.0 30.0 30.2 30.2 30.2 30.9 n/a = not available. 1 Figures do not include pupils recently arrived from overseas. 2 Figures include all maintained schools (including CTCs and academies). 3 Includes all languages which are counted as being a modern foreign language. Figures for Modern Foreign Languages are not available for the years 2004/05 to 2006/07. 4 Full GCSEs only have been included (Full GCSEs, double awards, accredited international certificates and their predecessor iGCSEs). Figures from 2005-09 exclude iGCSEs, 2010 and 2011 figures include accredited iGCSEs. 5 Including attempts and achievements by these pupils in previous academic years. 6 Parliamentary constituency figures are based on the postcode of the school. 7 Local authority figures are based on the local authority maintaining the school. 8 Regional figures are based on the region of the Local Authority maintaining the school. 9 England figures are the sum of all local authority figures. Source: National Pupil Database

Grammar Schools: Academies Primary Education: Admissions

Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for Education which grammar schools have (a) applied for Education how much he plans to spend on creating and (b) converted to academy status since 2005. additional primary school places in this Parliament. [96491] [96384]

Mr Gibb: Since 2005, 131 grammar schools have Mr Gibb [holding answer 27 February 2012]: For the registered an interest and applied to convert to academy current spending period the Government intend to make status. As of February 2012, 119 grammar schools have available over £4 billion to local authorities to support become academies. the provision of pupil places. It is for local authorities to decide how best to allocate that funding to meet local needs. Human Trafficking: Curriculum Pupils: Disadvantaged

Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for how many schools teach pupils about human Education what steps he is taking to raise the trafficking. [96502] educational aspirations of school children from lower income families. [96419] Mr Gibb [holding answer 27 February 2012]: Personal, social, health and economic (PSHE) education provides Mr Gibb: Narrowing attainment gaps between pupils opportunities for schools to teach about human trafficking. from low-income families and their peers is a priority In secondary schools pupils are taught ways of recognising for the coalition Government. We have introduced the and reducing risk, minimising harm and getting help in pupil premium, which guarantees additional funding emergency and risky situations. PSHE education is not for schools with disadvantaged children, and ensures compulsory and the Department does not collect that the poorest children, wherever they live, are able to information about the topics taught in each school. receive the right support to enable them to achieve the 281W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 282W standards of which they are capable. Total funding is Schools: Finance £625 million in 2011-12, £1.25 billion in 2012-13, and will rise to £2.5 billion by 2014-15. Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Additional funding is only one aspect of our approach Education what progress he has made in amending the to raising standards and aspirations for pupils from funding formula for schools to ensure that the low-income families. For the first time this year the difference between regions is narrowed; and what School Performance Tables include information about progress he has made in ensuring that Shropshire how effective schools are at narrowing the attainment receives an increased level of funding. [96270] gap and achieving high standards for their disadvantaged pupils. Other reforms, including improving the quality Mr Gibb: We published the consultation document: of teaching in our schools, introducing a more rigorous “A consultation on school funding: Proposals for a emphasis on phonics in the early years of primary fairer system” in July 2011. The consultation closed in education and reviewing the national curriculum and October and we published details of the responses in assessment arrangements, will all have an impact on the December. We are engaged in careful consideration of attainment and aspirations of children from lower income how to proceed towards a fairer system of school funding. families. We expect to make further announcements in the spring.

School Capital Programme Chris White: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how much was received per pupil by local Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for authorities through the Dedicated Schools Grant in Education whether meeting the BRE Environmental each of the last three years. [96460] Assessment Method standard is one of the criteria for expenditure on school infrastructure under the School Mr Gibb: The following table shows the Guaranteed Capital Programme. [95845] Unit of Funding (GUF) allocated to each authority through the Dedicated Schools Grant (DSG) from 2009-10 Mr Gibb: We are considering the outstanding to 2011-12. The GUFs for 2011-12 include the amount recommendations in the Sebastian James review of per pupil allocated to local authorities for the specific education capital, including the recommendation on grants that were mainstreamed into the DSG in 2011-12. the future of BREEAM in school building programmes. These specific grants were allocated in addition to the We will be responding very soon with next steps. DSG in 2009-10 and 2010-11. Excluding the specific Schools grant funding, the GUFs for 2011-12 would be the same as for 2010-11. Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for Dedicated Schools Grant (DSG) Guaranteed Units of Funding (GUF) 2009-10 Education what steps his Department has taken to to 2011-12 update and consolidate its guidance on out-of-hours £ 1 use of school facilities. [95888] Local authority 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 Barking and Dagenham 4,725 4,917 5,766 Mr Gibb: In the Schools White Paper “The Importance Barnet 4,723 4,917 5,642 of Teaching” the Government made a commitment to Barnsley 3,987 4,154 4,878 reducing the volume of DFE guidance to schools. Since Bath and North East 4,033 4,204 4,788 then we have carried out a thorough review of all DFE Somerset publications and over 20,000 pages of unnecessary guidance Bedford Borough 3,998 4,198 4,909 has been removed. The review identified over 1,000 Bexley 4,301 4,482 5,120 pages of guidance on the Department for Education Birmingham 4,605 4,790 5,689 and Training and Development Agency for Schools Blackburn with Darwen 4,405 4,583 5,416 websites that related to the provision of extended services Blackpool 4,125 4,296 4,984 in schools; this has been reduced to five pages. Most of Bolton 4,125 4,301 4,999 the guidance that has been removed may still be accessed Bournemouth 3,964 4,130 4,659 in the archive section of the DFE publications website. Bracknell Forest 4,177 4,367 4,861 Additional guidance focused on the responsibilities of Bradford 4,275 4,470 5,293 governing bodies is available in chapter 22 of The Brent 5,102 5,342 6,236 Governors’ Guide to the Law which can be accessed on Brighton and Hove 4,249 4,424 5,017 the Department for Education website: Bristol, City of 4,520 4,702 5,469 http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/leadership/governance/ Bromley 4,123 4,311 4,944 guidetothelaw/b0065507/gttl Buckinghamshire 4,042 4,216 4,814 Bury 4,068 4,238 4,822 Schools: Admissions Calderdale 4,053 4,222 4,917 Cambridgeshire 3,926 4,093 4,644 Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Camden 6,373 6,618 7,649 Education which secondary schools admit pupils on Central Bedfordshire 3,938 4,094 4,658 the basis of partial selection by ability criteria in each Cheshire East 3,943 4,110 4,695 local authority; and what proportion of pupils at each Cheshire West and 4,104 4,275 4,896 school were admitted in this way in the latest period for Chester which figures are available. [96495] City of London 7,603 7,871 9,373 Cornwall 3,879 4,043 4,664 Mr Gibb: The information requested is not collected Coventry 4,258 4,433 5,232 centrally. Croydon 4,432 4,627 5,345 283W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 284W

Dedicated Schools Grant (DSG) Guaranteed Units of Funding (GUF) 2009-10 Dedicated Schools Grant (DSG) Guaranteed Units of Funding (GUF) 2009-10 to 2011-12 to 2011-12 £ £ Local authority 2009-10 2010-11 2011-121 Local authority 2009-10 2010-11 2011-121

Cumbria 3,970 4,137 4,828 Northumberland 3,850 4,016 4,744 Darlington 4,086 4,255 4,897 Nottingham 4,658 4,843 5,713 Derby 4,120 4,291 5,049 Nottinghamshire 3,981 4,148 4,747 Derbyshire 3,964 4,130 4,766 Oldham 4,271 4,453 5,229 Devon 3,843 4,005 4,603 Oxfordshire 4,011 4,182 4,758 Doncaster 4,083 4,252 4,982 Peterborough 4,246 4,422 5,169 Dorset 3,938 4,104 4,683 Plymouth 4,030 4,198 4,891 Dudley 4,092 4,263 4,895 Poole 3,860 4,024 4,579 Durham 4,125 4,296 5,068 Portsmouth 4,207 4,381 5,042 Ealing 5,007 5,213 6,100 Reading 4,428 4,627 5,287 East Riding of Yorkshire 3,851 4,015 4,613 Redbridge 4,380 4,575 5,248 East Sussex 4,141 4,313 4,913 Redcar and Cleveland 4,133 4,305 5,148 Enfield 4,596 4,785 5,569 Richmond upon Thames 4,467 4,654 5,162 Essex 4,067 4,238 4,816 Rochdale 4,321 4,500 5,255 Gateshead 4,129 4,300 5,123 Rotherham 4,190 4,363 5,141 Gloucestershire 3,881 4,046 4,661 Rutland 4,039 4,208 4,749 Greenwich 5,576 5,827 6,801 Salford 4,462 4,642 5,444 Hackney 6,409 6,682 7,811 Halton 4,376 4,555 5,355 Sandwell 4,372 4,557 5,315 Hammersmith and 5,831 6,059 7,040 Sefton 4,058 4,227 4,932 Fulham Sheffield 4,096 4,272 5,001 Hampshire 3,964 4,132 4,648 Shropshire 3,850 4,013 4,612 Haringey 5,161 5,364 6,307 Slough 4,582 4,792 5,540 Harrow 4,669 4,862 5,536 Solihull 3,887 4,052 4,652 Hartlepool 4,173 4,345 5,192 Somerset 3,889 4,052 4,668 Havering 4,287 4,468 5,086 South Gloucestershire 3,781 3,944 4,487 Herefordshire 3,830 4,002 4,724 South Tyneside 4,241 4,417 5,303 Hertfordshire 4,039 4,212 4,787 Southampton 4,265 4,441 5,123 Hillingdon 4,519 4,709 5,420 Southend-on-Sea 4,171 4,344 5,034 Hounslow 4,822 5,024 5,844 Southwark 5,961 6,200 7,244 Isle of Wight 4,198 4,373 5,001 St Helens 4,120 4,290 5,014 Islington 6,043 6,310 7,319 Staffordshire 3,913 4,078 4,653 Kensington and Chelsea 5,956 6,186 7,036 Stockport 4,043 4,211 4,791 Kent 4,081 4,251 4,885 Stockton-on-Tees 4,102 4,272 4,988 Kingston Upon Hull, 4,317 4,493 5,294 Stoke-on-Trent 4,215 4,388 5,200 City of Suffolk 3,900 4,065 4,676 Kingston upon Thames 4,410 4,596 5,184 Sunderland 4,137 4,311 5,025 Kirklees 4,093 4,266 4,990 Surrey 4,129 4,313 4,804 Knowsley 4,414 4,621 5,447 Sutton 4,409 4,596 5,200 Lambeth 6,075 6,337 7,398 Swindon 3,913 4,079 4,696 Lancashire 4,069 4,238 4,902 Tameside 4,126 4,298 4,942 Leeds 4,068 4,237 4,946 Telford and Wrekin 4,052 4,219 4,855 Leicester 4,310 4,497 5,290 Thurrock 4,291 4,470 5,112 Leicestershire 3,728 3,888 4,429 Torbay 4,064 4,233 4,842 Lewisham 5,751 5,981 6,952 Tower Hamlets 6,523 6,792 8,052 Lincolnshire 3,933 4,099 4,798 Trafford 3,992 4,160 4,761 Liverpool 4,484 4,675 5,553 Wakefield 4,022 4,190 4,912 Luton 4,402 4,583 5,315 Walsall 4,183 4,371 5,131 Manchester 4,731 4,919 5,876 Waltham Forest 4,747 4,940 5,842 Medway 4,179 4,351 4,953 Wandsworth 5,376 5,639 6,565 Merton 4,612 4,801 5,425 Warrington 3,958 4,125 4,668 Middlesbrough 4,330 4,506 5,352 Warwickshire 3,927 4,093 4,663 Milton Keynes 4,231 4,413 5,074 West Berkshire 4,137 4,321 4,891 Newcastle upon Tyne 4,256 4,443 5,288 West Sussex 4,018 4,186 4,705 Newham 5,259 5,478 6,449 Westminster 5,650 5,893 6,897 Norfolk 3,945 4,111 4,786 Wigan 4,091 4,262 4,882 North East Lincolnshire 4,281 4,455 5,102 Wiltshire 3,849 4,013 4,593 North Lincolnshire 3,961 4,127 4,818 Windsor and 4,193 4,378 4,967 North Somerset 3,895 4,061 4,677 Maidenhead North Tyneside 3,974 4,140 4,906 Wirral 4,089 4,269 5,028 North Yorkshire 3,993 4,160 4,787 Wokingham 4,005 4,198 4,711 Northamptonshire 3,923 4,088 4,699 Wolverhampton 4,309 4,502 5,348 285W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 286W

Dedicated Schools Grant (DSG) Guaranteed Units of Funding (GUF) 2009-10 In total, 175 responses were received to the consultation, to 2011-12 which concluded on the 26 January 2012, and these are £ currently being analysed by officials. When the consultation 1 Local authority 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 report is published on the Department’s website, it will Worcestershire 3,865 4,028 4,601 include details of how each of the proposals was viewed York 3,939 4,103 4,657 by respondents. These views will be taken into account, England 4,218 4,398 5,083 including those on toilet and washing facilities, before 1 Figures include the per pupil amount for specific grants that were the standards are finalised. mainstreamed into the DSG in 2011-12. The GUFs for 2011-12 would be the same as for 2010-11, if these funding relating to these grants is excluded.

Chris White: To ask the Secretary of State for INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Education what comparative assessment he has made STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE of the level of Dedicated Schools Grant received by Departmental Data Protection Warwickshire and other local authorities; and if he will make a statement. [96461] Mr David Davis: To ask the hon. Member for Mr Gibb: For 2011-12, the average per pupil Guaranteed Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for Unit of Funding (GUF) for the Dedicated Schools the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, Grant in England is £5,082.54. The GUF for Warwickshire how many cases of (a) data loss and (b) breaches of is £4,662.81 per pupil. The Government have published confidentiality occurred in the Independent the levels of Dedicated Schools Grant for all local Parliamentary Standards Authority in 2011. [95725] authorities on the Department for Education’s website at: Mr Charles Walker [holding answer 23 February 2012]: The information requested falls within the responsibility http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/adminandfinance/ of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority financialmanagement/schoolsrevenuefunding/ settlement2012pupilpremium (IPSA). I have asked IPSA to reply. Letter from Andrew McDonald, dated 24 February Schools: Sanitation 2012: As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Education what assessment has been made of the Question asking about cases of data loss and breaches of effects of the standard of school toilet and washing confidentiality at IPSA in 2011. facilities on children’s levels of health and education. There were two cases of data loss: [96562] An IPSA BlackBerry was stolen during a household burglary. The BlackBerry was security protected and encrypted. Mr Gibb: The Department has not made such an A personal computer owned by an IPSA employee was stolen assessment, but it does set standards for toilet and during a household burglary. The computer did not contain washing facilities, which form part of the school premises sensitive personal data. regulations. Proposals for revising these regulations have There have been no breaches of confidentiality. recently been consulted upon. The proposals stress that There are two incidents recorded in IPSA’s information security suitable toilet and washing facilities must be provided log where an email message was sent to the wrong MP. Neither for the sole use of pupils, having regard to their ages, message contained sensitive personal data. number and sex and any special requirements that they may have. Departmental Meetings In both the existing and proposed regulations there are wider requirements for pupils’ welfare. These include Sir Bob Russell: To ask the hon. Member for a specific standard for health, safety and welfare. In the Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee proposed regulations the requirement is that: for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, what the dates were of meetings between “school premises and the accommodation and facilities provided therein must be maintained to a standard such that, as far as is representatives of the Independent Parliamentary reasonably practicable, the health, safety and welfare of the Standards Authority and Government Ministers since pupils is ensured”. 1 September 2011; which Ministers were in attendance We believe that this provides a sufficient safeguard in on each occasion; whether matters relating to the this area. pensions of hon. Members were discussed at each meeting; what the outcome was of each meeting; what Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for other matters were discussed; and if he will publish the Education what plans the Department has to improve minutes taken of each meeting [96194] the standard of school toilets and washing facilities. [95999] Mr Charles Walker [holding answer 23 February 2012]: The information requested falls within the responsibility Mr Gibb: The Department recently consulted on of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority revised regulations for school premises, which include (IPSA). I have asked IPSA to reply. standards for toilet and washing facilities. These stress Letter from Andrew McDonald, dated 28 February 2012: that suitable toilet and washing facilities must be provided As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards for the sole use of pupils, having regard to their ages, Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary number and sex and any special requirements they may Question asking about meetings between representatives of IPSA have. and Government Ministers. 287W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 288W

Since 1 September 2011 the following meetings between IPSA Table 1: Apprenticeship programme starts in Kingston upon Hull by framework, and Government Ministers took place. 2005/06 to 2010/11 On 21 October 2011 the Chief Executive met the Leader of the Framework 2005/06 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 2010/11 House. Electrical and 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— On 26 October 2011 the Chief Executive met the Deputy Electronic Leader of the House. Servicing 1 1 1 1 1 1 On 10 November 2011 the Chief Executive met the Leader of Electricity — — — — — — Industry the House. Electrotechnical 30 40 40 20 30 20 On 10 November 2011 the Chief Executive met the Deputy All 1,400 1,310 1,590 1,790 1,970 3,170 Chief Whip. Apprenticeships On 24 November 2011 the Parliamentary Under-Secretary for 1 Base value of less than five. the Cabinet Office visited IPSA and met several members of staff. Note: Figures are rounded to the nearest ten. On 8 December 2011 the Chief Executive met the Leader of Source: the House. Individualised Learner Record On 15 December 2011 the Chief Executive met the Parliamentary Under-Secretary for the Cabinet Office. Information on the number of Apprenticeship starts On 16 January 2012, the Chair and the Chief Executive met the by framework is published in a supplementary table to a Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the Leader of the House and the quarterly statistical first release (SFR). The latest SFR Minister for the Cabinet Office. was published on 31 January 2012: On 24 January 2012, the Chief Executive met the Chief Secretary http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/ to the Treasury. statisticalfirstrelease/sfr_current These meetings covered a variety of issues relating to IPSA’s Table 2 shows the number of National Apprenticeship statutory responsibilities, including the commencement and Service Apprenticeship Vacancies (online system) by implementation of Schedule 6 of the Constitutional Reform and sector subject area in Kingston upon Hull on 23 February Governance Act, which transferred the power to determine MPs’ 2012. Please note that this information is based on the pensions to IPSA. location of the Apprenticeship vacancy and is valid We do not intend to provide further details of these meetings only for the date presented. as to do so may inhibit free and frank discussions in the future. Table 2: Apprenticeship vacancies in Kingston upon Hull by sector subject area, as of the 23 February 2012 Sector subject area Live vacancies BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Agriculture, Horticulture and 1— Animal Care Apprentices Arts, Media and Publishing 1— Business, Administration and Law 10 Mr Scott: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Construction, Planning and the Built 1— Innovation and Skills what recent progress he has made Environment in increasing the numbers of apprenticeships in UK Education and Training 1— businesses. [97002] Engineering and Manufacturing 1— Technologies Mr Hayes: We have seen increases in the numbers of Health, Public Services and Care 1— people starting and completing apprenticeships at all Information and Communication 1— levels. Final data for the 2010/11 academic year show a Technology 1 total 457,200 apprenticeship starts, an increase of 63.5% Leisure, Travel and Tourism — 1 over 2009/10. Apprenticeship achievements in 2010/11 Retail and Commercial Enterprise — increased by almost 17% to 200,300. Total 20 1 Base value of less than five. Totals may not sum due to rounding. Note: Apprentices: Hull Figures are rounded to the nearest ten. Source: Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for National Apprenticeship Service/Apprenticeship Vacancy data Business, Innovation and Skills (1) how many electrical A vacancy can be advertised on both the Apprenticeship or electro-technical apprenticeships were offered in the Vacancies system and also via an employer’s own website. Hull region in (a) 2006, (b) 2007, (c) 2008, (d) 2009, Therefore, these figures may not provide a comprehensive (e) 2010 and (f) 2011; [96449] picture of all Apprenticeship vacancies within an area. (2) how many live apprenticeships there were in Hull Online reports from Apprenticeship Vacancies are as of February 2012; and in what fields; [96450] updated on a monthly basis and published by the Data (3) how many apprenticeships have been (a) offered Service on the fourth day of each calendar month at the and (b) filled in Hull since June 2010; [96451] following link: (4) how many apprenticeships were offered in the http://mireportslibrary.thedataservice.org.uk/apprenticeships/ Hull region in each year since 2005. [96452] apprenticeship_vacancy_reports/

Mr Hayes: Table 1 shows the number of Apprenticeship programme starts in Kingston upon Hull local education Arms Trade: Bahrain authority by framework, between 2005/06 and 2010/11, the latest full year for which final data are available. Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for Provisional data for the first quarter of 2011/12 (August Business, Innovation and Skills what permits for arms to October) show that there were 910 Apprenticeship exports to Bahrain have been approved by Ministers in programme starts in Kingston upon Hull. his Department since February 2011. [96121] 289W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 290W

Mr Prisk: Information on arms exports is published types of wireless microphones to distributors in India, in the Annual and Quarterly Reports on Strategic Export and passed this on to the company. Prior to this, UK Controls. These reports contain detailed information Trade and Investment (UKTI) in India had received no on export licences issued, refused or revoked, by destination, advice on importing of wireless microphones. including the overall value, type (e.g. Military, Other) Business: Audit and a summary of the items covered by these licences. They are available to view at: https://www.exportcontroldb.bis.gov.uk/eng/fox Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many companies Currently this includes information up to 30 September registered in (a) Bexleyheath and Crayford 2011. Information covering 1 October to 31 December constituency, (b) the London Borough of Bexley and 2011 will be published in April 2012 and information (c) London received a penalty notice for late filing of covering 1 January 2012 to 31 March 2012 will be accounts in each of the last three years; and how many published in July 2012. such penalties were overturned on appeal. [96727] As an export licence is required to export arms and other military equipment from the United Kingdom, Norman Lamb: Companies House does not hold any details about what items were licensed for export to information in regional or constituency format. The Bahrain will be contained within these reports. However, information could be developed but only at a the fact that a licence has been issued does not mean disproportionate cost; it could only be retrieved as a that an export has necessarily taken place. All export bespoke product at a cost of at least several thousand licence applications are rigorously assessed on a case-by-case pounds. basis against the Consolidated EU and National Arms Export Licensing Criteria taking account of all prevailing Copyright: Education circumstances at the time of application. A licence will not be issued where to do so would be inconsistent with Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Criteria or other relevant announced commitments. Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to In particular Criterion Two concerns the: paragraphs five and six of the copyright consultation, ‘respect of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the what research his Department has undertaken to country of final destination’ determine the number of audio-visual works and and states that the Government will not issue an export works embedded in them that would need to be licence if there is a clear risk that the proposed export licensed under his proposals on the use of works for might be used for internal repression. If the situation in education. [94316] the country changes or new information comes to light that causes us to have concerns, we can and do revoke Norman Lamb [holding answer 20 February 2012]: I export licences where we consider that the proposed refer my hon. Friend to the reply I gave to him on export would, in light of the changing situation, contravene 27 February 2012, Official Report, column 70-71W. the Criteria. Copyright: EU Action

Audio Equipment: India Tristram Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for of 7 February 2012, Official Report, columns 244-5W, Business, Innovation and Skills (1) whether his on copyright, what advice he sought prior to Department has provided assistance to UK Trade and discussions with the European Commission on an Investment to ensure that wireless microphone EU-wide copyright exception for data mining; and equipment pre-tuned to 854-862 MHz that is sold by what economic research was conducted prior to those UK companies to India conforms to Indian laws and discussions. [95978] regulations; [95799] (2) what advice his Department received on the legal Norman Lamb: The Government receive a wide range operating bands for wireless microphone equipment in of views from many sources in relation to copyright, India prior to UK Trade and Investment’s involvement and have regular discussions with the European with UK companies distributing equipment in that Commission on a wide range of copyright and other country; [95795] intellectual property policy issues, including the interaction (3) what discussions his Department has had with of new technologies with the copyright framework. The UK microphone distributing companies on the effects Government have drawn the attention of the European of UK Trade and Investment’s involvement in Commission to the recommendations of the Hargreaves facilitating the sale of wireless microphones in India. report. It would be a matter for the Commission to decide whether to pursue any proposal for a European-wide [95798] exception for commercial data mining, and to undertake any public consultation on it. Mr Prisk: Her Majesty’s Government (HMG) provides assistance and support to UK-based companies through Counterfeit Manufacturing: Trade Agreements UK Trade and Investment’s dedicated trade and investment team based in India. Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for In the course of undertaking research for a UK-based Business, Innovation and Skills what communications company involved in selling wireless microphones in he has received from the US Administration on the India, UKTI India received advice from local contacts UK’s ratification of the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade in India on the legality of importing and selling certain Agreement; and if he will make a statement. [96003] 291W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 292W

Norman Lamb: Since conclusion of the Anti- Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) negotiations Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment his in December 2010, the UK Intellectual Property Office Department has made of the potential benefits of has received no official communication from the US making all providers of debt management and advice Administration on the UK’s ratification of the agreement. services subject to mandatory independent audits for the purposes of ensuring an appropriate duty of care Mark Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for to all consumers. [96845] Business, Innovation and Skills what consultations his Department held before the UK signed the Anti- Norman Lamb: Firms which provide debt management Counterfeiting Trade Agreement. [96024] services are required to be licensed under the Consumer Norman Lamb: The Intellectual Property Office held Credit Act 1974. The Office of Fair Trading has a duty a number of stakeholder meetings during the Anti- to ensure that applicants are fit to engage in the activities Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) negotiations. for which they wish to be licensed and to monitor the A range of stakeholders including business, internet continuing fitness of those to whom licences have been service providers and consumer interest and open rights granted. groups participated. The last stakeholder consultation In addition, this Department gave funding to the was held in September 2010 prior to the final round of Money Advice Service to enable them to carry out negotiations. Interested parties were also invited to research which will lead to a reformed debt advice submit comments via the Intellectual Property Office service that will be delivered from 2013. In their plan for ACTA website. the future, published on 22 February 2012, they identified regular, transparent quality assurance of debt advice as Debts: Advisory Services one of seven key areas critical to the provision of debt advice and they will be working with the advice sector Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for to take this forward. Business, Innovation and Skills what arrangements are in place to ensure that consumers who opt to choose a Departmental Senior Civil Servants private debt management company are directed towards a reputable firm; and if he will make a statement. [96843] Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many senior civil Norman Lamb: All who provide debt management servants left his Department and its public bodies in services are required to be licensed under the Consumer each month since May 2010; what their names are; Credit Act 1974. The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has what the rate of turnover of senior civil servants in his a duty to ensure that applicants for licences are fit to Department was during this period; and if he will make engage in the activities for which they wish to be licensed, a statement. [96258] and to monitor the continuing fitness of those to whom licences have been granted. Norman Lamb: The numbers of senior civil servants who Where the OFT has evidence of unfair practices, left the Department for Business, Innovation & Skills action can be taken to refuse or revoke or place conditions (excluding agencies) each month since 1 May 2010 on the consumer credit licence of those concerned. were: The Debt Managers Standards Association (DEMSA) has approval for its code of practice under the OFT 2010 2011 2012 Consumer Codes Approval Scheme (CCAS). The DEMSA Code promotes standards above and beyond what the January — 3 7 law requires. Consumers wanting to use a DEMSA February — 3 — member can look for the OFT code approved logo on March — 12 — company advertising and literature. April — 2 — May 1 1 — Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for June012— Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking July 7 1 — to prevent rogue debt management firms which have August 2 1 — had their consumer credit licences revoked from September 12 5 — continuing to trade whilst on appeal. [96844] October 9 2 — November 3 0 — Norman Lamb: The Government share the concern, December 0 0 — expressed by some stakeholders during the Consumer Total 34 42 7 Credit and Personal Insolvency Review, that a small number of rogue firms may be continuing to engage in Reasons for leaving BIS included resignation, retirement, practices which cause consumer detriment while appealing end of contract and transfer to other Government a decision to revoke their consumer credit licences. Departments. Government are continuing to consider this issue in the context of the wider work to reform the consumer The total number of senior civil servants who left for credit regime as a whole including the transfer of regulation all reasons was 83. The number in post at the start of to the new Financial Conduct Authority. In doing so, the period was 234. The turnover was therefore 35.47%. we recognise the importance of ensuring that consumers Similar information concerning BIS public bodies is are well-protected while at the same time ensuring that not held centrally and would incur disproportionate businesses have appropriate recourse to appeal. costs. 293W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 294W

Education: Prisons prisons education contract awarded to A4e will be reviewed in the light of recent police investigations into Neil Carmichael: To ask the Secretary of State for that company. [97349] Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment his Mr Hayes: All decisions relating to the funding of Department has made of the effectiveness of (a) individual training providers, including the awarding of literacy teaching and (b) other prisoner education. contracts, are made by the Skills Funding Agency, not [96108] by Ministers or the Department. I have asked the chief executive of Skills Funding to write to you in response Mr Hayes: This Department is responsible for to the question. determining policy on education for prisoners. Ofsted It is vital that Ministers, Parliament, the Skills Funding inspects prison education to the same standards and Agency, learners, teaching staff and the taxpayer each with the same expectations as it applies elsewhere, and it have confidence in the way public funds are being spent. is that organisation’s assessments upon which we rely. I The chief executive of Skills Funding has been asked to ordered a review of prison education on becoming the provide assurance to the Department that he has no Minister responsible because of my determination to concerns with the current contracting arrangements drive up standards. The Chief Inspector’s annual report with A4e before issuing them with these contracts or for 2011 confirmed that this was necessary as, though it with any future contracts. indicated that the overall effectiveness of provision in 22 out of 24 establishments inspected was judged to be Electronic Equipment: Waste Disposal satisfactory or better, it noted that the high proportion of provision that is no better than satisfactory in prisons Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for and young offender institutions is a concern, with leadership Business, Innovation and Skills what his policy is on and management and the extent to which provision the European Commission’s proposed waste electrical meets the needs and interests of learners seen as key and electronic equipment directive. [96854] factors limiting improvement. The annual report also noted insufficient literacy courses. Mr Prisk: A revised waste electrical and electronic Which is why the new strategy for offender learning, equipment directive (WEEE) was agreed by the European ‘Making Prisons Work: Skills for Rehabilitation’, that I Parliament on 19 January 2012 and will be adopted by launched last year was based on a significant number of the Council very shortly. The new directive raises the responses to our call for evidence and addresses the environmental objectives of the original, while minimising shortcomings Ofsted identifies. We are procuring new the administrative burdens placed on business. The prison education providers, with prison Governors playing Government will consult on necessary amendments to a critical role in both the procurement process and the the current UK WEEE regulations and propose other ongoing management of contracts. The new contracts improvements that should be made to the UK WEEE are based on clusters of prisons between which prisoners system that are good for business and seek to improve move, enabling continuity in learning and a much improved recycling rates. focus on the needs of employers in the areas to which Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate those clusters of prisons release. A redistribution of offender learning resource will focus delivery on the John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for beginning and the end of sentences in order to ensure Business, Innovation and Skills how many times we meet employer need, a key test of effectiveness. Ministers in his Department have met officials from the Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate since Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for May 2010; and when the next such meeting is planned. Business, Innovation and Skills how many [R] [96642] organisations tendered for the London prisons education contract awarded to A4e; what criteria his Norman Lamb: The then Minister for Employment Department used in making its choice of provider; and Relations, my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston for what reason A4e was awarded the contract. [97347] and Surbiton (Mr Davey), met with officials from the Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate on 5 July Mr Hayes: All decisions relating to the funding of 2010. Ministers receive regular updates on the work of individual training providers, including the awarding of this inspectorate and I will be meeting with the inspectors contracts, are made by the Skills Funding Agency, not in due course. by Ministers or the Department. I have asked the chief executive of Skills Funding to write to you in response EU Social Chapter to the question. Mr Dodds: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, It is vital that Ministers, Parliament, the Skills Funding Innovation and Skills what estimate has been made of Agency, learners, teaching staff and the taxpayer each the cost to UK businesses of the EU Social Chapter in have confidence in the way public funds are being spent. each year since its introduction. [96812] The chief executive of Skills Funding has been asked to provide assurance to the Department that he has no Norman Lamb: There is no longer a distinct and concerns with the current contracting arrangements separate “European Social Chapter” the EU’s provisions with A4e before issuing them with these contracts or for social and related matters are fully integrated into with any future contracts. the treaties. Specific measures agreed and implemented under these provisions are subject to impact assessments Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for at the time of transposition but once transposed are Business, Innovation and Skills whether the London then fully integrated into domestic law. 295W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 296W

Exports: Government Assistance Nature Improvement Areas

Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Neil Parish: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what support is Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions (a) available for companies seeking to export to (a) Egypt, he, (b) Ministers and (c) officials in his Department (b) the Philippines, (c) Vietnam and (d) all other have had with (i) the Department for Environment, international markets; and if he will make a statement. Food and Rural Affairs and (ii) others on the [96218] development and implementation of Nature Improvement Areas. [96224] Mr Prisk: The Government have set out a very clear ambition for the UK’s trade and investment agenda. Norman Lamb: BIS and DEFRA contact on Nature Exporting forms a core work strand of the Government’s Improvement Areas has been exclusively in the course Plan for Growth. of normal Government clearances for the Natural Environment White Paper, which announced the Nature This Department is supporting UK exports to all Improvement Area initiative, and the England Biodiversity markets, including Egypt, the Philippines and Vietnam, Strategy. through UK Trade and Investment (UKTI). Egypt and Vietnam are among UKTI’s top 20 priority emerging Paper: Industry and high-growth markets. UKTI’s strategy, ‘Britain Open for Business’, launched in May 2011, sets out plans to provide practical support to exporters over the Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for next five years. This can be found on UKTI’s website: Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking to assist the UK paper and board industry; and if he www.ukti.gov.uk will make a statement. [96976]

Higher Education Mr Prisk: The paper and board industry has access to the full range of Government support available which Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State includes Business Link, the Manufacturing Advisory for Business, Innovation and Skills what consideration Service, and the Technology Strategy Board. The Deputy he has given to making no change to higher education Prime Minister announced a third round of the Regional policies in 2013-14. [96596] Growth Fund at the manufacturing summit on 23 February. Businesses, including those active in the paper and Mr Willetts: The Department for Business, Innovation board industry, have until 13 June to apply and further and Skills has consulted on proposals for reform of the information on the application process can be found at: higher education sector, as set out in the higher education http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/economic-development/ White Paper. We will respond to this consultation in regional-growth-fund due course. As part of the autumn statement, we announced a package that will reduce the impact of energy and Industrial Action climate change policies on the cost of electricity for those energy intensive industries, such as paper and board, whose international competitiveness is most affected John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for by these policies. This package of measures will be Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what his policy is on worth around £250 million to energy intensive industries the use of (a) recruitment companies, (b) subsidiaries to reduce their energy bills, subject to state aid approval. and (c) in-house recruitment processes to provide In addition, there will be investment available for labour during periods of industrial action; [R] [96637] commercial and industrial energy efficiency projects (2) what arrangements are in place to prevent through the Green Investment Bank, and on 6 December vulnerable agency workers from being exploited when we launched a £125 million challenge fund to boost UK recruitment agencies are contracted to provide labour advanced manufacturing supply chains. Both of these to break periods of industrial action; [R] [96638] schemes will be open to bids from the paper and board (3) whether recruitment agencies are required to industry. inform agency workers from (a) Bulgaria, (b) Romania, (c) other EU countries and (d) non-EU Rentokil: Temporary Employment countries of the industrial context when such companies are recruiting for staff to work on contracts John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for to break periods of industrial action. [R] [96639] Business, Innovation and Skills if he will investigate whether Rentokil Initial’s use of recruitment agencies Norman Lamb: Regulation 7 of the Conduct of to provide labour for the Eurostar contract during Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses industrial action on 16 and 17 February and 1 and Regulations 2003 prohibits an employment business 2 March 2012 is compliant with Regulation 7 of the from knowingly supplying work-seekers to perform the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment duties of staff taking official industrial action or their Businesses Regulations 2003; and if he will make a replacements, doing so is a criminal offence. The nationality statement. [R] [96644] of the agency workers would make no difference to the offence. Employment businesses are required to provide Norman Lamb: The Government may investigate further information about the role a work-seeker takes on with if an official complaint is made to the Employment the hirer. Agency Standards Inspectorate. 297W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 298W

John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for to ensure that the best researchers from a diverse population Business, Innovation and Skills whether he has had are attracted to research careers, enhance the quality of discussions with representatives from Rentokil Initial research training and employability of early career on that company’s use of recruitment companies to researchers and enhance the impact of UK researchers provide labour for the Eurostar contract during by promoting improved career development and industrial action on 16 and 17 February and 1 and management of research staff by research organisations. 2 March 2012. [R] [96645] Science: Higher Education Norman Lamb: All official meetings are published on the departmental website. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State http://www.bis.gov.uk/transparency for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking to encourage more students to study science, John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for technology, engineering and mathematics subjects in Business, Innovation and Skills whether he has had higher education. [96299] discussions with officials from the Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate on the use by Rentokil Initial of recruitment agencies to provide labour for Mr Willetts: Science and technical skills play a vital the Eurostar contract during industrial action on role in ensuring the economic and intellectual prosperity 16 and 17 February and 1 and 2 March 2012. [R] of the UK. The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) works closely with the Department for [96646] Education to ensure Government policies to attract Norman Lamb: There have been no discussions of students to science, technology, engineering and this nature. mathematics (STEM) subjects throughout their educational careers are coherent and consider the needs of both Science: Females students and future employers. BIS funds STEMNET, a UK-wide organisation, whose Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State purpose is to ensure that all young people, regardless of for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is background, are encouraged to understand the excitement taking to support women in science and engineering. and importance of STEM in their lives, and the career [96300] opportunities to which these subjects can lead. There are currently over 25,000 STEM ambassadors across Mr Willetts: I have asked the Royal Academy of the UK. Engineering and the Royal Society to develop a diversity The Higher Education Funding Council for England programme for the Science, Technology, Engineering (HEFCE) run a £350 million support programme for and Mathematics (STEM) community. This will build strategic and vulnerable subjects. STEM courses receive on the academies’ existing and excellent relationships the most support for activities to increase demand with a diverse mix of STEM institutions, and place a under this programme. much greater emphasis on challenging the leaderships HEFCE are also running a national HE STEM at all levels to take on responsibility for delivering the programme, led by the university of Birmingham, from change needed to promote equality. This programme August 2009 until July 2012 with a budget of £20 million, aims to tackle the barriers faced by all minority groups to attract students to STEM subjects at HE. as well as those who are economically disadvantaged. Many of the Department’s other STEM partners are Students: Fees and Charges contributing directly to the equality and diversity agenda. A broad mix of STEM activities and wider societal programmes are funded from the Science and Research Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State budget and these have a major impact on diversity in for Business, Innovation and Skills how many the STEM workforce. institutions have set fee levels below £9,000. [96595] Our work on the STEM pipeline has strands which seek to encourage more girls to study science at school Mr Willetts: Of the 149 institutions that have submitted and university, through the STEM ambassadors access agreements to the Office For Fair Access (OFFA), programme. STEMNET actively seeks to ensure that there are 143 with estimated average tuition fees less the profile of the ambassadors they recruit adequately than £9,000 (96%) after fee waivers. represent the local community in which the ambassadors The full dataset on fees charged by institutions with volunteer. At present, around 40% of the 25,000 access agreements is available on the OFFA website: ambassadors are women. http://www.offa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/ Within the Royal Society fellowship schemes, the Download-updated-2012-13-data-tables-as-Excel- Dorothy Hodgkin Fellowships is specifically aimed at spreadsheet.xls researchers who require a flexible working pattern and women are particularly encouraged to apply. Students: Loans Research Councils UK fellowships and grants are distributed among gender and ethnic groups with no Henry Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for apparent strong bias to any one group. Through the Business, Innovation and Skills whether he plans to Concordat to support the career development of researchers allow student loans to be paid to students wanting to and the Vitae programme, RCUK will lead cultural undertake apprenticeships or trade vocational change in the higher education sector. Their ambition is qualifications for initial training courses. [95894] 299W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 300W

Mr Hayes: From the 2013/14 academic year, loans (2) what guidance is available to agency workers will be available for students aged 24 and over taking from (a) Bulgaria, (b) Romania, (c) other EU courses at level 3 and level 4, including advanced or countries and (d) non-EU countries when they are higher apprenticeships. recruited to work on contracts to break periods of industrial action. [R] [96643] Supermarkets: Competition Norman Lamb: Guidance about seeking work through Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for employment businesses in the United Kingdom is available Business, Innovation and Skills how many meetings he on the Government’s website: has held with (a) the six largest supermarkets, (b) www.direct.gov.uk farmers’ representatives and (c) consumer groups on the introduction of a Groceries Code Adjudicator. Third Sector [96824] Chris White: To ask the Secretary of State for Norman Lamb: The Secretary of State for Business, Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his Innovation and Skills, my right hon. Friend the Member Department has taken to implement the principles of for Twickenham (Vince Cable), has not met any of these the Best Value Statutory Guidance in respect of (a) groups to discuss the Groceries Code Adjudicator. I am giving at least three months’ notice to voluntary and responsible for the Groceries Code Adjudicator and I community organisations and their service users when plan to meet representatives of both retailers and suppliers reducing or ending funding, (b) engaging with in the coming months. voluntary and community organisations and service users as early as possible before making a decision on Supermarkets: Farmers the future of the service, any knock-on effects on assets used to provide this service and the wider impact on the Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for local community and (c) making provision for Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has voluntary and community organisations and service made of (a) levels of bankruptcy of British dairy users to put forward options on how to reshape the farmers and (b) the market power of the six largest service or project. [95779] supermarkets. [96825] Norman Lamb: The Best Value guidance does not Norman Lamb: The Secretary of State for Business, legally apply to central Government Departments or Innovation and Skills, my right hon. Friend the Member their executive agencies. for Twickenham (Vince Cable), has not made any However, as the Secretary of State for Communities assessment of these issues. The Competition Commission’s and Local Government (DCLG), the right hon. Member study of the groceries market, which published its final for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr Pickles), made clear in report in April 2008, considered the market positions of his foreword to the revised Best Value guidance, central both dairy farmers and large supermarkets. Following Government Departments support the fair standards this review a Groceries Supply Code of Practice was set out in the guidance and have reaffirmed their introduced, and the Government now intends to establish commitment to the national Compact. The issues raised a Groceries Code Adjudicator to ensure adherence to are covered by the Compact. In January the National the Code. Audit Office published ‘Central Government’s implementation of the national Compact’, a report Temporary Employment which provides commentary on the implementation of the national Compact across Government. DCLG John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for participated fully in the National Audit Office’s review Business, Innovation and Skills (1) how many agency of the national Compact implementation and will be workers registered as self-employed with limited following up as appropriate the recommendations within company status there were in each sector of the the National Audit Office report to ensure that the economy in each year since 2007; [R] [96636] Department continues to be a strong model of collaborative (2) what estimate he has made of the number of working between Government and the voluntary sector. agency workers from (a) Bulgaria, (b) Romania, (c) The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills other EU countries and (d) non-EU countries who are (BIS) signed up to the renewed Compact published in registered as self-employed with limited company December 2010. status with recruitment agencies in (i) London, (ii) the BIS recognises and values the role that the third South East and (iii) England. [R] [96641] sector can play across all parts of the further education (FE) and skills system in the successful delivery of Norman Lamb: The Government do not hold this learning and skills, particularly in supporting those information on agency workers. furthest away from learning and employment. FE and Skills within BIS works widely with the third sector, John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for particularly through a highly consultative dialogue with Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what guidance is the Third Sector National Learning Alliance (TSNLA) available to agency workers from (a) Bulgaria, (b) to ensure that third sector interests are appropriately Romania, (c) other EU countries and (d) non-EU taken into account in a systematic way. The Skills countries on the effects on their statutory entitlements Funding Agency (a partner organisation of BIS) endeavours of registering as self-employed with limited company to ensure the third sector is represented in the development status with recruitment agencies; [R] [96640] and implementation of policy and service delivery. In 301W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 302W terms of funding, where a third sector provider is a Grade 2011-12 Pay scale 2010-11 Pay scale direct contract holder with the agency we can give assurance that the agency meets the Best Value statutory A2 No officers £18,525 to £21,696 guidance recommendations in relation to notice periods. B3 £21,432 to £27,385 £21,432 to £27,385 In the consumer focused voluntary sector, BIS sponsors C4 £26,102 to £32,509 £26,102 to £32,509 both Citizens Advice and Citizens Advice Scotland—the C5 £32,748 to £40,500 £32,748 to £40,500 umbrella bodies for the Citizens Advice service across D6 £43,084 to £55,782 £43,084 to £55,782 England and Wales, and in Scotland. It provides core D7 £54,340 to £67,861 £54,340 to £67,861 grant in aid funding to both charities under schedule SMS1 £58,200 to £117,750 £58,200 to £117,750 274 of the Enterprise Act. Our funding enables the SMS2 £82,900 to £162,500 £82,900 to £162,500 bodies to provide essential central services to their customers namely the network of Citizens Advice Bureaux UKTI also employs locally engaged staff contracted (information technology (IT), information, training of to the local embassies in many markets. The salaries for staff and volunteers, management services). In return these staff are set at post and dictated by local market this enables the service to provide central Government conditions. with real time data on the issues facing the public on a wide number of social policy issues. Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what the average pay of Trade Promotion: Manpower UK commercial attachés in (a) Egypt, (b) Vietnam and (c) the Philippines was in each of the last five years. [96219] Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many UK commercial attachés were active overseas in each of the Mr Bellingham: I have been asked to reply on behalf last two years. [96217] of the Department for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. Mr Bellingham: I have been asked to reply on behalf All UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) staff operating of the Department for Foreign and Commonwealth abroad do so under Foreign and Commonwealth Office Affairs. (FCO) terms and conditions. The following table gives The staff employed by the Foreign and Commonwealth the grades of UK Based staff in each of the requested Office (FCO), working to UK Trade and Investment countries and the salary range for those officers as (UKTI) objectives can be broken down into UK-based employees of the FCO at 1 January 2010, 1 January staff and locally engaged staff who are employed by the 2011 and currently. embassy. Some staff in the network work across multiple We do not hold staff data for 2008 and 2009. We do objectives and record the appropriate percentage of not disclose actual salary information for individual their time to each. The following table gives the FY officers. 2010-11 and the current full-time equivalent number of staff working to UKTI objectives in each of these Market Grade Payscale categories. The figures for 2011-12 may be subject to revision at the end of the financial year when the 1 January 2010 accounts are completed. Vietnam D7 £51,385 to £66,335 Vietnam C4 £24,644 to £31,778 Locally Vietnam B3 £20,725 to £27,189 UK diplomats engaged staff Total network Philippines C5 £31,102 to £39,589 2010-11 195 1,032 1,227 Egypt D6 £41,106 to £54,789 2011-12 169 1,060 1,229 Egypt C5 £31,102 to £39,589 Egypt C4 £24,644 to £31,778 1 January 2011: Trade Promotion: Pay Vietnam D7 £54,340 to £67,861 Vietnam C4 £26,102 to £32,509 Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Vietnam B3 £21,432 to £27,385 Business, Innovation and Skills what the average pay Philippines C5 £32,748 to £40,500 was of UK commercial attachés in each of the last two Egypt D6 £43,084 to £55,782 years. [96214] Egypt C4 £26,102 to £32,509 Current: Mr Bellingham: I have been asked to reply on behalf Vietnam D7 £54,340 to £67,861 of the Department for Foreign and Commonwealth Vietnam C4 £26,102 to £32,509 Affairs. Philippines C5 £32,748 to £40,500 The following table shows the grades and pay scales Egypt D6 £43,084 to £55,782 at which UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) has had Egypt C4 £26,102 to £32,509 UK-based officers working as commercial attachés across the world over the last two years. All UKTI officers UKTI also employs locally engaged staff in each of overseas working to UKTI objectives on the Foreign these countries who are contracted to the embassies. and Commonwealth Office (FCO) platform are employed The salary for these staff are set at post and dictated by on FCO terms and conditions. local market conditions. 303W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2012 Written Answers 304W

UK Trade and Investment: Air Travel UKTI’s expenditure on air fares is set out in the following table: Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer Total (£000) of 21 February 2012, what the level of aggregate 2009-10 2,160 spending on UK Trade and Investment flights was in 2010-11 1,424 (a) 2009-10, (b) 2010-11 and (c) 2011-12. [96616] 2011-12 (9 months) 1,025 Mr Prisk [holding answer 27 February 2012]: UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) operates in 97 different We estimate that the full year spend for 2011-12 will countries and within the UK. show a 37% reduction over this period. ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 28 February 2012

Col. No. Col. No. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 131 FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE— Arms Trade Treaty ...... 139 continued Burma...... 145 Regional Security (Afghanistan) ...... 144 EU Economic Conditions...... 134 Somalia...... 141 European Court of Justice ...... 138 Syria...... 136 Falkland Islanders ...... 133 Topical Questions ...... 146 Human Rights ...... 143 UK Exports ...... 145 Human Trafficking ...... 132 UN Commission on the Status of Women ...... 140 Independent Judiciary (Hungary) ...... 134 West Bank...... 138 Libya...... 131 West Bank...... 143 Maldives ...... 142 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Tuesday 28 February 2012

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 19WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE— EU Competitiveness Council ...... 19WS continued Third Statement of New Regulation ...... 19WS UK Government National Action Plan (Women, Peace and Security)...... 27WS CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 23WS JUSTICE...... 28WS Government Olympic Executive (Annual Report).. 23WS CPS and RCPO (Merger)...... 28WS TRANSPORT ...... 28WS EDUCATION...... 24WS Crossrail Train Procurement ...... 28WS Cultural Education ...... 24WS TREASURY ...... 21WS Asset Protection Agency (Interim Report) ...... 22WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 26WS Office of Tax Simplification (Small Business South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands Tax Review) ...... 21WS Marine Protected Area...... 26WS Sale of Northern Rock Plc to Virgin Money...... 22WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Tuesday 28 February 2012

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 275W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Departmental Pay ...... 275W Science: Higher Education ...... 298W Departmental Senior Civil Servants...... 276W Students: Fees and Charges...... 298W Students: Loans ...... 298W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 287W Supermarkets: Competition ...... 299W Apprentices...... 287W Supermarkets: Farmers ...... 299W Apprentices: Hull...... 287W Temporary Employment ...... 299W Arms Trade: Bahrain ...... 288W Third Sector...... 300W Audio Equipment: India ...... 289W Trade Promotion: Manpower...... 301W Business: Audit ...... 290W Trade Promotion: Pay ...... 301W Copyright: Education ...... 290W UK Trade and Investment: Air Travel...... 303W Copyright: EU Action ...... 290W Counterfeit Manufacturing: Trade Agreements ..... 290W CABINET OFFICE...... 234W Debts: Advisory Services...... 291W Adam Werritty...... 234W Departmental Senior Civil Servants...... 292W Departmental Internet ...... 234W Education: Prisons...... 293W Departmental Senior Civil Servants...... 234W Electronic Equipment: Waste Disposal ...... 294W Health...... 235W Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate...... 294W EU Social Chapter ...... 294W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 209W Exports: Government Assistance ...... 295W Affordable Housing...... 209W Higher Education...... 295W Affordable Housing: Bexley ...... 210W Industrial Action...... 295W Coastal Communities Fund ...... 210W Nature Improvement Areas...... 296W Council Housing: West Midlands ...... 210W Paper: Industry ...... 296W Green Deal Scheme...... 211W Rentokil: Temporary Employment...... 296W Non-domestic Rates...... 211W Science: Females ...... 297W Planning Permission ...... 212W Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS— continued continued Social Services: Disadvantaged ...... 213W Horse Passports ...... 195W Urban Areas: Planning Permission ...... 214W Horticulture: Finance ...... 196W Wind Power: Planning Permission ...... 215W Livestock: Antibiotics ...... 196W Milk...... 197W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 197W Departmental Internet ...... 197W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 256W Departmental Pay ...... 198W Afghanistan ...... 256W Licensing: Alcoholic Drinks...... 198W Algeria ...... 256W Olympic Games 2012: Interpreters...... 198W Bahrain ...... 257W Olympic Games 2012: National Lottery...... 198W Business and Human Rights ...... 256W Public Holidays...... 199W China ...... 257W Sports: Homophobia ...... 199W Departmental Pay ...... 257W Television...... 199W Departmental Private Education...... 257W Departmental Senior Civil Servants...... 258W DEFENCE...... 269W European Union: Business...... 260W Afghanistan: Peace Keeping Operations ...... 269W Judiciary: Hungary ...... 256W Air Training Corps: Disciplinary Proceedings...... 270W Libya...... 261W Apache Helicopters...... 270W Mali ...... 263W Armed Forces: Private Education ...... 271W Nigeria...... 263W Armed Forces: Training ...... 272W Palestinians ...... 263W Departmental Lost Property ...... 272W Saudi Arabia...... 264W Members: Correspondence ...... 273W Senegal...... 264W Sri Lanka ...... 264W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 233W Syria...... 266W Devolution: Energy...... 233W Taxis ...... 266W

EDUCATION...... 276W HEALTH...... 243W Children: Protection...... 276W Action for Employment ...... 243W Education Funding Agency: Manpower ...... 277W Allergies: Children ...... 243W Education Maintenance Allowance...... 277W Anaemia: Health Services ...... 244W Families ...... 277W Brain: Injuries ...... 244W GCSE ...... 279W Cancer: Drugs...... 245W Grammar Schools: Academies...... 279W Cancer: Health Services ...... 246W Human Trafficking: Curriculum ...... 279W Chiropody...... 247W Primary Education: Admissions...... 280W Dental Services: Shrewsbury ...... 247W Pupils: Disadvantaged...... 280W Departmental ICT ...... 247W School Capital Programme ...... 281W Departmental Pay ...... 247W Schools ...... 281W Drugs: Misuse...... 248W Schools: Admissions ...... 281W Foetal Alcohol Syndrome ...... 249W Schools: Finance...... 282W Freedom of Information ...... 249W Schools: Sanitation ...... 285W General Practitioners: Digital Technology ...... 250W Hospital Beds...... 251W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 201W Influenza: Vaccination ...... 251W Building Regulations...... 201W Joint Committee on Vaccination and Combined Heat and Power: Finance...... 201W Immunisation...... 251W Departmental Internet ...... 201W Macular Degeneration: Waiting Lists ...... 252W Departmental Secondment ...... 201W NHS Commissioning Boards: Hull...... 252W Electric Vehicles ...... 202W NHS: Redundancy...... 253W Electricity...... 202W NHS: Rural Areas...... 255W Energy: Housing ...... 202W Ophthalmology: Shrewsbury and Telford Hospital Energy: Meters...... 203W NHS Trust ...... 255W Energy: Planning Permission ...... 203W Green Deal Scheme...... 204W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 223W Housing: Insulation ...... 205W Animal Welfare: Standards ...... 223W Nuclear Power Stations...... 206W Asylum ...... 224W Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs...... 206W Biometrics...... 224W Severn Water: Environment Protection ...... 209W Civil Disorder ...... 225W Solar Power...... 209W Criminal Records: EU Action...... 225W Departmental ICT ...... 226W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Departmental Pay ...... 226W AFFAIRS...... 191W Departmental Training ...... 226W Agriculture: Regulation...... 191W Departmental Travel ...... 226W Common Sugar Regime ...... 192W Deportation ...... 227W Dogs: Breeding ...... 192W Detention Centres...... 227W Dogs: Electric Shock Equipment ...... 192W Forensic Science: Expenditure...... 229W Farmers: Income...... 192W Forensic Science Service: Closures ...... 229W Food Supply...... 193W Fraud: Crime Prevention...... 229W Forestry Commission Wales...... 194W Fraud: International Cooperation...... 229W Forests: Dorset...... 195W Illegal Immigrants: Northern Ireland...... 230W Col. No. Col. No. HOME DEPARTMENT—continued TRANSPORT ...... 216W Internet: Organised Crime...... 230W Air Travel Organisers’ Licence ...... 216W Marriage of Convenience...... 230W Bus Services: Concessions ...... 217W Ministers: Official Residences ...... 223W Bus Services: Finance...... 218W Production Orders: Wales ...... 231W Departmental Senior Civil Servants...... 218W Public Sector: Internet ...... 231W Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency...... 218W Terrorism: Racial Incitement...... 231W Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency: Third Sector...... 232W Enforcement ...... 218W UK Border Agency: Manpower...... 233W Electric Vehicles ...... 219W UK Border Agency: Passengers ...... 233W Fuels: Excise duties ...... 219W Large Goods Vehicles: Safety...... 219W Rescue Services: Air Force ...... 220W INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Rescue Services: Contracts...... 220W STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE ...... 286W Rescue Services: Scotland ...... 221W Departmental Data Protection...... 286W Roads: Accidents ...... 221W Departmental Meetings ...... 286W Speed Limits ...... 222W Transport: Expenditure...... 222W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 273W A4e ...... 273W TREASURY ...... 267W Afghanistan ...... 273W Action for Employment ...... 267W Burma...... 274W Gift Aid: Leeds ...... 267W Departmental Pay ...... 274W Monetary Policy ...... 267W Departmental Private Education...... 274W Non-domestic Rates...... 267W Planning Permission ...... 268W Tax Avoidance ...... 268W JUSTICE...... 173W Taxation: Business ...... 268W Action for Employment...... 173W Taxation: Debts Written Off...... 269W Business: Freedom of Information...... 173W Taxation: Oil...... 269W Dangerous Driving: Death...... 174W Departmental ICT ...... 175W WALES...... 209W Departmental Legal Opinion ...... 176W Action for Employment ...... 209W Departmental Pay ...... 177W Departmental Pay ...... 209W Departmental Senior Civil Servants...... 177W Family Law: Legal Aid Scheme...... 178W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 200W Freedom of Information ...... 178W Action for Employment ...... 200W Judiciary: Complaints ...... 178W Equality and Human Rights Commission...... 200W Legal Aid Scheme ...... 179W Equality and Human Rights Commission: Olympic Games 2012 ...... 181W Veredus ...... 200W Prison Sentences ...... 181W Human Trafficking ...... 200W Prisoners: Suicide...... 185W Proceeds of Crime...... 186W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 236W Repossession Orders ...... 186W Action for Employment ...... 236W Society of Editors: Media Lawyers Association..... 189W Automated Service Delivery Project...... 237W Translation Services ...... 189W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 238W Young Offenders: Sports ...... 191W Jobseeker’s Allowance: New Enterprise Allowance ...... 238W SCOTLAND...... 215W Jobseekers Allowance: Young People ...... 239W Devolution: Advocate-General for Scotland ...... 215W New Deal Schemes...... 240W STV...... 216W Post Office Card Account ...... 240W Television...... 216W Work Capability Assessments ...... 243W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. 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CONTENTS

Tuesday 28 February 2012

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 131] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs

Health and Social Care Bill [Col. 153] Answer to urgent question—(Mr Lansley)

Treaty on Stability, Co-ordination and Governance [Col. 170] Application for emergency debate under Standing Order No. 24

Eradication of Slavery (UK Company Supply Chains) [Col. 172] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Fiona Mactaggart)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Estimates Day (5th allotted day) Transport and the Economy [Col. 175] Rio+20 Summit [Col. 222]

Supply and Appropriation (Anticipation and Adjustments) [Col. 264] Bill presented, and read the First time

Supermarkets And Public Land (Scotland) [Col. 265] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Women in the Church of England [Col. 1WH] Media Regulation [Col. 23WH] Energy Suppliers and Prices [Col. 46WH] Jam Jar Bank Accounts [Col. 56WH] Clean Coal [Col. 65WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 19WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 173W] [see index inside back page]