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PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT GENERAL COMMITTEES Public Bill Committee CRIME AND COURTS BILL [LORDS] Tenth Sitting Tuesday 5 February 2013 (Afternoon) CONTENTS SCHEDULE 15, as amended, agreed to. CLAUSE 32 agreed to. SCHEDULE 16 agreed to. CLAUSES 33 to 35 agreed to. Adjourned till Thursday 7 February at half-past Eleven o’clock. PUBLISHED BY AUTHORITY OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS LONDON – THE STATIONERY OFFICE LIMITED £6·00 PBC (Bill 115) 2012 - 2013 Members who wish to have copies of the Official Report of Proceedings in General Committees sent to them are requested to give notice to that effect at the Vote Office. No proofs can be supplied. Corrigenda slips may be published with Bound Volume editions. Corrigenda that Members suggest should be clearly marked in a copy of the report—not telephoned—and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons, not later than Saturday 9 February 2013 STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT WILL GREATLY FACILITATE THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF THE BOUND VOLUMES OF PROCEEDINGS IN GENERAL COMMITTEES © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2013 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 311 Public Bill Committee5 FEBRUARY 2013 Crime and Courts Bill [Lords] 312 The Committee consisted of the following Members: Chairs: †MARTIN CATON,NADINE DORRIES Barwell, Gavin (Croydon Central) (Con) † Lopresti, Jack (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con) † Browne, Mr Jeremy (Minister of State, Home † McCabe, Steve (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab) Department) McDonald, Andy (Middlesbrough) (Lab) Burrowes, Mr David (Enfield, Southgate) (Con) † Paisley, Ian (North Antrim) (DUP) † Chapman, Jenny (Darlington) (Lab) † Rutley, David (Macclesfield) (Con) † Creasy, Stella (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op) † Syms, Mr Robert (Poole) (Con) † Elphicke, Charlie (Dover) (Con) † Vara, Mr Shailesh (North West Cambridgeshire) † Goggins, Paul (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab) (Con) † Vaz, Valerie (Walsall South) (Lab) † Green, Damian (Minister for Policing and Criminal † Wilson, Phil (Sedgefield) (Lab) Justice) † Wright, Simon (Norwich South) (LD) † Hanson, Mr David (Delyn) (Lab) † Heald, Oliver (Solicitor-General) Neil Caulfield, John-Paul Flaherty, Committee Clerks † Jones, Andrew (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con) † attended the Committee 313 Public Bill CommitteeHOUSE OF COMMONS Crime and Courts Bill [Lords] 314 (b) specifying which persons may act as restorative justice Public Bill Committee practioners, (c) specifying what training and accreditation is required for the registration of restorative justice practioners Tuesday 5 February 2013 and the standards they will work to, (d) conferring or imposing functions on restorative (Afternoon) conference facilitators (which may include power to exclude from a meeting constituting or forming part of a restorative conference persons otherwise entitled to participate in it), [MARTIN CATON in the Chair] (e) about the period within which restorative conferences must be completed, and Crime and Courts Bill [Lords] (f) about the information that must be returned to the court including the participation of the offender, a report on the restorative conference, its outcome Schedule 15 and any action which the offender has agreed to undertake. DEALING NON-CUSTODIALLY WITH OFFENDERS (4D) Rules made under this section are subject to annulment Amendment proposed (this day): 100, in schedule 15, in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament in page 262, line 24, leave out ‘activities’.—(Paul Goggins.) the same manner as a statutory instrument, and accordingly section 5 of the Statutory Instruments Act 1946 (c.36) applies to such rules. 2pm (4E) Without prejudice to the generality of section 1(5)(a), Question again proposed, That the amendment be where the passing of sentence has been deferred the court may made. include in a community order or in a youth rehabilitation order an activity requirement— The Chair: I remind the Committee that with this we (a) requiring the offender to underatake any action to are discussing the following: which he has agreed in a restorative conference, or (b) where the victim has agreed to participate in a meeting Amendment 101, in schedule 15, page 262, line 27, constituting or forming part of a restorative conference leave out ‘restorative justice requirements’ and insert at a subsequent time, requiring the offender to participate ‘participation in a restorative conference’. in that meeting.’. Amendment 102, in schedule 15, page 262, line 28, Amendment 107, in schedule 15, page 262, line 43, leave out ‘justice’ and insert ‘conference’. leave out ‘justice’ and insert ‘conference’. Amendment 103, in schedule 15, page 262, line 29, Amendment 108, in schedule 15, page 263, line 1, leave out ‘an activity’ and insert leave out ‘activity concerned’ and insert ‘conference’. ‘a meeting or series of meetings’. Amendment 109, in schedule 15, page 263, line 2, at Amendment 104, in schedule 15, page 262, line 33, end insert— leave out ‘and’. ‘(5A) A restorative conference requirement may be imposed Amendment 105, in schedule 15, page 262, line 36, at whether or not the court considers that there is a real prospect that the defendant will be sentenced to a custodial sentence in the end insert proceedings. ‘and (5B) A restorative conference requirement may not be imposed (d) which is facilitated by a restorative justice practioner unless the offender entered a plea of guilty to the offence.’. whose role is to prepare for, facilitate and follow up Amendment 110, in schedule 15, page 263, line 4, at the meeting.’. end insert— Amendment 106, in schedule 15, page 262, leave out ‘(7) In this section “participation” may include a victim’s lines 37 to 42 and insert— entitlement to participate by teleconference, video conference, or ‘(3) The victim is entitled to participate in any meeting which having another person represent their views to the offender on constitutes or forms part of a restorative conference. their behalf.’. (4) The restorative justice practitioner may allow any other person or persons— Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): I (a) to participate in any meeting which constitutes or do not intend to press amendments 101 to 105, but forms part of a restorative conference, or I was not happy with the Minister’s response, and I (b) to attend any such meeting for any purpose specified intend to press amendment 106 to the vote. by him including to provide additional information or to act as a supporter of the victim or the offender if he considers that their participation or attendance The Chair: First, we must dispose of amendment 100. for that purpose would assist the process of restorative justice. (4A) Participation by any person in a restorative conference Paul Goggins: I beg to ask leave to withdraw the shall require the consent of that person. amendment. (4B) The Secretary of State may make rules about the Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. procedure of restorative conferences. (4C) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4B), The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian rules made under this section may, in particular, make provision— Green) rose—[Interruption.] (a) specifying the circumstances under which the court should consider deferral and imposition of a restorative conference requirement, The Chair: Are you speaking against? 315 Public Bill Committee5 FEBRUARY 2013 Crime and Courts Bill [Lords] 316 Damian Green: Yes. (d) conferring or imposing functions on restorative conference facilitators (which may include power to exclude from a meeting constituting or forming part Paul Goggins: We are dividing. of a restorative conference persons otherwise entitled to participate in it), The Chair: I have not put the question on amendment 106 (e) about the period within which restorative conferences must be completed, and yet. I have put the question to withdraw amendment 100. (f) about the information that must be returned to the court including the participation of the offender, a Paul Goggins: I wish to put amendment 106 to the report on the restorative conference, its outcome vote. and any action which the offender has agreed to undertake. (4D) Rules made under this section are subject to annulment Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): We have already in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament in debated it. the same manner as a statutory instrument, and accordingly section 5 of the Statutory Instruments Act 1946 (c.36) applies to such rules.subsequent time, requiring the offender to participate Paul Goggins: We have debated it all morning. in that meeting.’. (4E) Without prejudice to the generality of section 1(5)(a), Damian Green: If the hon. Lady is suggesting that she where the passing of sentence has been deferred the court may include in a community order or in a youth rehabilitation order is never allowed to respond at the end of debates, she is an activity requirement— inventing parliamentary procedure. (a) requiring the offender to underatake any action to which he has agreed in a restorative conference, or The Chair: Minister, you have responded, but if you (b) where the victim has agreed to participate in a meeting have something very brief to add— constituting or forming part of a restorative conference at a subsequent time, requiring the offender to participate in that meeting.’.—(Paul Goggins.) Paul Goggins: On a point of order, Mr Caton. The Minister responded in full. I have indicated that I wish Question put, That the amendment be made. to put the amendment to a vote. [Interruption.] The Committee proceeded to a Division. Damian Green: On a point of order, Mr Caton. I did The Minister of State, Home Department (Mr Jeremy indeed have something to say, not least because I had Browne): On a point of order, Mr Caton. As a member had a conversation with the hon. Gentleman just before, of the Committee, am I allowed to vote? in which I was prepared to tell him something to his advantage about what would happen to the ideas in his The Chair: Yes.