529 Finance (No.2) BiI BHAORA 21, 1913 (SAKA) HaJf-an-hour Discussion 530 National Commission for women SHRI JASWANT SINGH: PersonaUy I wasting the time of the House. A Jot of this discussed it with some people could be done in the Chamber. Let the HaIf­ here •.• (lntem.ptbns). In fact.lthink it can be an-Hour discussion go on. We have the time that tomorrow before the Private Members' to discuss it and let us discuss it and sort it Business and after the Private Members' out amongst ourselves. And come to a con­ Business, for however long it takes, we sit clusion. Meanwhile, let the time be utilised and finally dispose of the Anance Bill tomor­ for the Half-an-Hour discussion effectively. row itself. The Private Members' Business willbefinished atsixo·cIock.Acertainamount MR.DEPUTY SPEAKER : May t re­ of disposal would take place of speakers quest Shrimati Suseela GopaJan to com­ before the Private Members' Business starts mence her Half-an-Hour discussion? at 3. 30 or 3.45, whatever it is, and after it finishes at six o'clock. It wiD be much neater and tidierto dispose of the Anance Bill in that fashion. That would be my submission. 17_54 hrs.

SHRt RANGARAJAN KUMARAMAN­ HALF-AN-HOUR DISCUSSION GALAM: There is also another problem, Sir. H tomorrow we are only going to take the National Commission for Women Finance Bill, then there are other Govern­ ment business also which are slated for (English) tomorrow. Keeping that in mind, we had agreed in the BAC that we have the BCCI discussion on Saturday morning. SHRIMATt SUSEELA GOPALAN (ChirayinkiJ): Sir, ,",aise to rise Half-an-Hour AN HON MEMBER: Not in the morning, discussion on the points arising out of the at three o'clock. answer given by the Minister of Human Resource Development on August 5,1991 SHRI RANGARAJAN KUMARAMAN­ to Starred Question No_ 291 regarding Na­ GALAM: No, the discussion is supported to tional Commission for Women. start in the morning and finish by three o'clock. Now we can reverse thal Let us start the Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir .. at the outset, BCCI discussion also after four on Saturday I want to thank the Speaker. who has given and let us finish ... (lntem.ptions). May I some time in this tight schedule, besides the suggest that we discuss in the chamber agreed discussion on the atrocities on because there are complications overall. Let women. On August 5, to a question by Shri­ the Half-an-Hour discussion go on. We wiD mati Malini Bhattacharya about setting up of discuss it and sort it out. the National Women's Commission, a reply was given by the Govemment that decision SHRI JASWANT SINGH: No, we can­ has not been taken. This House has unani­ not. because we have to See the collective mously passed this BiD •.. (lntem.ptbns) interest of the House. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The House SHRI BASUDEB ACHARlA: When can should not suffer for want of quorum and the we II in the chamber? ladies speaking should not feel that they are not cared for. So, care should be taken. You SHRI RANGARAJAN KUMARAMAN­ can continue Suseelaji. GALAM: Now ... (lntem.plbns). SHRIMATI SUSEELA GOPALAN: Sir, Sir, • we are going to start a debate on this House has unanimously passed the BiD the whole mod,. operandi of when reply for constituting a National Women's Com­ should be given, etc. In the House, we .... mission. II was the long-standing demand of 531 Hal-an-hour SEPTEMBER 12,1991 National Commission 532 Discussion forMHJJeIJ (Shrimali Suseela GopaIan) have also started throwing out women from the CHganised sector. They will be thrown the women's movement in the country thai a into the unorganised sector. That is the re­ National Women's Commission should be sult of this indiscriminate mechanisation and constituted for going into the various prob­ attitude adopted. Throwing women from lams of women.lntheyear1975 -which was whatever little employment they have got. is thelntemationalYearofWomen-thepartici­ becoming a regular feature. pants in the United Nations Conference suggested that all member-Govemments Many legislation are passed. But many should establish in their countries such na­ of them are not implemented. Some of the tionalcommissions,committeesandbureaus achievements are being taken away by retr0- to develop the status of women in the world. grade steps like the Muslim Women's' (Pro­ By the year 1985 many countries did set up tection of Rights and Divorce) Ad, 1986 and such commissions. Recently SAARC also some unwarranted sections in the Sati Pre­ hadcaDed on an member-countries toestab­ vention Ad, 1981 which have deep implica­ lish such commissions in this field. tions not only for women's side and to jus­ tice, equality and freedom but to the political We constituted the Status of Women's and social health of the nation. The result of Committee in 1975. But, within a year, that this is compromise with fundamentatism. Committee submitted its report and there ended the function of that Committee. A 18.00 hr. Women's Committee for seH employment was also constituted which too submitted its MR.DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Just a min­ report. That Committee was also for one ute. Is it the desire of the House that we year. No pennanent body was set up. The should sit for half-an-hour more? National Women's Committee was there. Shrimati Gaeta Mukherjee will be able to teD SEVERAl HON. MEMBERS: Yes. you in detail about the functions of that Committee. Adualytherewas no function at MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, an in that Commiltaa. Adually no effective Suseela;i, you continue. I just wanted to take step in any direction was taken to taka suit­ the permission of the House for extension of able slaps 10 develop the position of the time for this. women in the society. SHRIMATI SUSEELA GOPALAN: We Sir, why are we asking for a Women's are witnessing the result of these compro­ Commission? Wa aI know the deplorable mises in our country today. We had compro­ condition of our women in India. 60.58 per mised with fundamentalism from aD sides. cent of them ..a illiterates. 90 per cent are WIth minority fundamentalism and majority working in the unorganised sedor. 65 per fundamentalism we compromised. We are cenl of pregnant women are eating mal­ aD witnessing the result today. Approximately nutrition food. One out of eighteen women 2,500 recommendations regarding women's die during the pregnaney. Infant mortafi1y is issues were made since Independence. also high at91. The sex ratio has come down There are extremely important recommen­ 10 929 women for 1,000 men. In 1981 the dations such as Ia Bhatt commission's ree­ Government was teling that we haV8 ommendalionon ...... mpIoymenIofwomen. achieved an improvement in the sex ratio; Several recommendations of the Law Com­ because sex ratio at thai time was 933 miIsion .. stiI remaining unnoticed. The women tor 1, 000 men. In the next ten years Status of women's Committee Report. 1975, • has come down to 929 for 1,000. What has not been implernent8d. The main rec­ does it mean? Atrocties on women are in­ ommendations was for I8ltIng up a National creasing. Sex determination ..... are going Women'. Commission. That aIIo ... not on unabated. New technological changes done by the cong,... Government. No ,... 533 Ha/f-an-hour BHADRA 21, 1913 (SAKA) National Commission 534 Discussion for women view of the programme was made. It was study and say that none of these legislations wasta of money and time because it is not were implemented. This is the fata of many mandatory on the Government to accept the social legislations. What staps were taken to decision and implement it. The crucial ques­ see that thasa legislations ara implemented? tion is that it is the Government that is violat­ So, women's organisations unanimously ing the Constitutional guarantees given to passed a resolution to constitute a National women. Innumerable struggles were c0n­ Commission for Women with statutory pow­ ducted by women's organisations and put ers. All the women's organisations and the prolonged pres:. -e for the amendment of Social Welfare Board Chairmen were caIIad Dowry Prohibition Act and for constituting for a meeting to discuss the Perspective family courts. Because of pressure the Plan for Women. We discussed the Per­ Govemment was forced to pass some legis­ spective Plan, we have ourown reservations lation. But what happened afterwards? A on it Afterwards, in August, 1989,43 women's family court was meant to be established in organisations convened aconvention in Delhi every district with counselling centres. I would and passed a resolution requesting the like to know from the Government hew many Govemment to constitute the Women's courts have bean established. In 1984 the Commission, but no positive response was legislation was passed, but how many courts there. Finally, the National Front Govern­ are being established ?We have approached mentto brought a BiD with many lacunae and many State Government, but they are say­ flaws and the women's organisations pre­ ing there is no money because in every tested. As a laudable departure from the district they have to set up courts and there Congress Government's policy, the National is no money. They are not setting apart any Front Government re-discussed it with the amount for this purpose. Amount should be Women's organisations and changed iI allocated by the Planning Commission. So, substantialJy although some weaknesses are when pressure is put, you will pass legisla­ still there. But they were prepared to discuss tions. But in very few place family courts are with the women's organisations. Not only set up. One family court in the Capital will not that they discussed withtrade unions, youths serve any purpose and the amount sanc­ and so. on, they were prepared to discuss tioned for this is also very much inadequate. with everybody as to know hew the benefici­ That is the state of affairs. Why should we aries in this country are thinking and how pass a legislation then? they are feeling about these legislations. Actually, the Congress Govemment was About the Dowry Prohibition (Amend­ never willing to discuss with concerned or­ ment) Act, so much agitation was there. We ganisations So,after the discussions, the biB actually picketted the Parliament twice or on Women's commission iI was substan­ thrice and so much agitation was there for tially changed. I can tell you, this is the best the constitution of a Women's Commission. BUI ever passed in the world. h means that That was finally passed here, But where is this is the best Bill passed in the Third World the Dowry Prohibition Officer? Every district countries and the capitaist countries. I ex­ should have one Dowry prohibition Officer. clude socialist countries, because they have But did you make any effort? The State a separate system. This BiD was passed Governments are telling they have no money. unanimously in this House. Why are they What is the solution to this? And you are reluctant to inpiement it now? Not only thai; complaining that there is dowry death, har­ you have a suggestion to have a Women's assment and everything against women. But Rights Commissioner. In a country with so what is the purpose of the law passed? Law many languages, cultures and mulifarious was passed, but lhe Central Govarnmentdid other problems, will a Commissioner be able not take any initiative to implement this leg­ 10 tackle the problems of women in a proper islation. In 1984.1 said in this Pariamentthat way? Whan we taked tothe Minister, he was aa these legislations can be kept in the telling that they are trying to amalgamate archives for the future research students to both the Women's Commission as wei as ... 535 Hal-an-hour SEPTEMBER 12. 1991 National Commission 536 Discussion forwomfJfl [Shrimati Suseela Gopalan) street forthe implementation of the law which is passed by this ParHament That is my the Women's Rightscommissioner .How is it request. It is very easy to implement this possible? It means that you want to put on all thing. The people from various walks of life powerful bureaucrat on the National Women's should be represented in the Commission Commission. There are forces within the and they should go into the various problems bureaucracy which are fighting against the of women as to how those problems should National Commission for Women. When this be tackled and how the various welfare laws Commission is constituted. Their work also are to be implemented. All these things should will be maintained it is going to monitor as to be done. how the Acts are implemented and how the Government is responding with regard to the I am very happy, Kumari Mamata Ban­ problems of women. They can demand rec­ erjee is there in the Government, on the ords from the departments. They can opine other side. As a Minister, she has to fight on them and give them to the Government within also. h is not only outside but within the with their opinion for correction. Now, there Government also you have to fight. We will is nobody to monitor it. Whatever violation is fight for the women's cause from outside. taking place, nobody can actually do any­ Otherwise this Commission will not come thing. Everything is happening every day. into existence. Government does not want Women are suffering so much and there is autonomous body. So,I request the Govern­ so much discrimination against women in ment to immediately constitute 6 National every wak of life. Sexual harassments are Commission for women with propers and being meted out to women in various sectors adequate money. That should be done. The where they are working. Who is there to future of the country is linked with the change monitor and check all these things? That is in women. Then only. there will be progress why, we suggested that there should be an in the country. Whatever deVelopmental autonomous body. But the Congress Party works you organise, without change among has objected to it. They want a Governmen­ the women, there would not be any prog­ tal body so that as usual, they can tackle ress. You are seeing that in every field. these things. But I teU you about the experi­ ence of the Third World 'countries and the With this, I request the Government to capitalist countries where commissions were positively react to the question of constitut­ set up without proper power and money this ing of National Commission for Women. resulted in failure. In very few countries, they have achieved some progress. For example, SHRI SUDHIR GIRI(Contai): Mr. Dep­ U.K., U.S.A., France and Scandinavia Even uty-Speaker, Sir,ljoin with Shrimati Suseela Pakistan has set up a Commissioner for Gopalan and the women fok of our country Women. But they did not give enough to express our deep concern for the r.egH­ powers, it was not an autonomous body. No gence of the welfare of women by the Gov­ money was given. Actually, in the initral emment. stage, with the passing of some legislation, like equal pay equal work. some little prog­ Due to the existence of feudal system ress was made. But again the women were for centuries in our country, the womenfolk very much demoralised by the functioning of have bee" denied the opportunilies and the Commission. Th~y were not happy. advantages which are due to them.

So, the only solutiori to tackle these In this backdrop, various laws have been problems pertaining to the women is to passed by the Government at the Centre as constitute autonomous commission. That is wei as In the States. Various polley meas­ what_ are demanding. Once again. I appeal ures have been adopted by the Centre and to the Government not to force the women's the State Governments. But there is nobody organisations in the country to come to the to look after the machinery which is to Imple- 537 HaH-an-hour BHADRA 21,1913 (SAKA) National Commission 538 Discussion for women ment all the laws and policy resolutions. So, This has created doubts in our mind why there is a need and the need is great to such a Commission has been delayed and establish a National Commission for Women why they are dilly-dallying the implementa­ and not National Commissioner. tion of the Bill on National Commission on Women. In this backdrop, I want to point out that the Minister when he replied to the question So my very brief question is this: In this under discussion said that they have not background, when the weHare of women is decided to implement the provisions of the very much desired in our society, whether Bill for National Commission on Women the Parliament both male and female joint passed in this House. On this, a delegation together to have a National Commission on of women MPs met Mr. Arjun Singh and he Women to be set up. said that they are not opposed to implement­ ing the Bill on National Commission on My pointed question is: What are the Women. He pointed out that they are consid­ reasons for dilly-dallying the implementation ering how much they could harmonise the of the Bill which was already passed by this concept of Commissioner's Office with the .House? My next question to the Hon.Minister Commission on Women. is: Will she give a definite assurance that within a short span of time, the Bill will be The Minister for Women and Child implemented? These are my questions. Development has said that they have not decided as yet. The Bill on National Commis­ PROF. SAVITHRI LAKSHMANAN sion on Women was passed in this House (Mukundapuram): Sir, we, the women, are unanimously. Various women organisations contributors and partakers along with men and various organisations concerned with and are in the mainstream of national devel­ women's weHare had suggested various opment. I an sorry to say that it remains, so measures and those measures were included only on papers and files. We see the case of in the National Commission on Women. So Muthamma, Ameena Aneetha Chawan etc. the Government at that time supported the every other day in this country. There were Bill. Therefore,l think the Government run by Chief Ministers in this land who were justify­ Congress stands committee to implement ing or describing raping as a common phe­ the provisions of the Bill. nomenon just like drinking a cup of tea. When this comment was made by an ex­ MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: We have to Chief Minister in Kerala when he was in close at 6. 30 PM. power, teenage boys used to comment on the girls by asking the question: Are you SHRI SUDHIR GIRl: To make my ques­ coming with me, to have a cup of tea? tion effective, I should made my background effective. SHRIMATI SUSEELA GOPALAN (Chirayinkil): This was corrected by the Chief The Government has confused the Minister himseH. concept of Commissioner's Office with the Commission on Women. This concept was PROF. SAVITHR! LAKSHMANAN:This discarded in 1988 when it was presented in is the condition of the poor women in our the National Perspective Plan. The 25th sovereign State. The Ameena's case was report of the UN on Status of Women and the well-discussed in this House. Some of the Report of the Committee on the Status of Hon. Members having children of the same Women in India recommended unanimously age of Ameena have expressed their deep that there shall be set up an autonomous and sorrow for not allowing Ameena to be looked statutory women's commission in our coun­ after by any women's organisation or individ­ try. Bu.t In the Congress manifesto, the con­ ual. I do appreciate this feeling. But it is cept of Commissioner's Office was revived. reported that a sixty-year old man Kheema 539 HaH-an-hour SEPTEMBER 12, 1991 National Commission 540 Discussion for women [Prof. Savithari Lakshmanan) SHRIMATI MALIN I BHATTACHAR­ AYA: That Is all right. from a village in West Bengal bought a 12 year-old girl for As. 5000/- and married her. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Some of my friends may be interested in MINISTRY OF HUMAN RESOURCE DE­ collecting the data and the political interests VELOPMENT (DEPARTMENT OF YOUTH of that particular person. But to me no matter AFFAIRS AND SPORTS AND THE DE­ who the man is. Let the man be from any PARTMENT OF WOMEN AND CHILD party, caste or creed, he Is a human being DEVELOPMENT)(KUMARI MAMATABAN­ humiliating the girl child. It is reponed that ERJEE): Sir. instead of allowing haH-an­ this man is now under the police custody. But hour discussion. you should have allowed a the girl child has been admitted into a juve­ full discussion on this subject. nile centre, for what crime? In this panlc:ular case, the accused is not a foretgner, but he MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: This sugges­ is an Indian. I never expected such a brutal tion is coming at the fag end of the hour. act from a so~alled revolutionary State like West Bengal.I narrated this story only to KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: Eve­ express the sad condition of the women of rybody's intention is this. (Interruptions) India. [ Translation) Coming to my point I would like to know from the Hon. Minister whether the Govern­ KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: Mr. ment have any plan to decentralise the Deputy Speaker. Sir. first I would like to powers of the National Commission for congratulate Han. Speaker. who has pro­ Women at the district level and at the grass­ vided the opponunity to discuss on this issue root level. That is atl I wahted to ask. in the House. I would like to congratulate Shrimati Suseela Gopalan. Sudhir Giri;i and Thank you. Savithri Lakshmanan for their good sugges­ tions. I too ponder several times over liter­ MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, I would acy. infant monality. atrocities which you request the Han. Minister to reply. have mentioned. I cannot daim that today atrocities in Hindustan are not being commit­ SHRIMATI MALINI BHATTACHARAYA ted and ladies are not suffering from the (Jadavpur): May I seek a clarification? atrocities. I cannot claim so. But it is also not proper tp say that Government is sitting like MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Yes. a puppet and doing nothing in this regard. This is also not correct. Hith&no our Govem­ ment has not taken any decision relating to SHRIMATI MALINI BHATTACHARYA: National Commission for Women. Why not? My question to the Government is: In what It dos not matte, whether It Is National ...... in your election manifesto you have Commission for Women or Office of Com­ talked about setting up of the Office of the missioner for Women. What matters is that Commissioner for Women's Rights? Even ourGov.,nmentlhould say lOmething about after the Bill On the National Commission for It. Weareallothinkingaboutlt.ltwUlbegood Women was passed in this House. it was not If a law Is formulated, • commission is ap­ inplemented. pointed in which the problems of woman may be lOWed. Il don not make any dlffe,­ MRDEPU1'Y-SPEAKER: Just a min­ ence wh8Iher It is the Issue of National ute. Marthe Minist.... reply '.ov.r, you can Commiuion tor Women, CommiHlon for just put any question. You may do It at that Women RIghts. But the maner II that the lime. It will be a new precedent. That is why laws we have and which the Parliament hu I am taRing you. passed. uveratsuch laws Ilke- Dowry Pro- 541 Half·an·hour BHADRA 21. 1913 (SAKA) National Commission 542 Discussion for women hlbition Ad. 1961. Immoral Traffic Preven· deliver a speech they must have a compul­ tion Ad. 1956. Individual Representative of sory subject. My submission to the political Women Prohibition Act. 1986. Commission leaders Is that they sh ·ould speak against on Sati Prevention Act, 1987. National the atrocities on women. I call upon the Commission of Women Ad which was noti­ leaders of the political parties to provide fied but yet to be implemented. the V.P. special protection to women. We are moving Singh Government too fell. but the act could towards twenty first century. but it Is very not be come into force even after the notifi­ distressing that our women are still being cation of the Ad. But this has not been treated as show pieces. Our women are in furnished tlJl now. Be sides these there are distress. They are not physically fit. As such many othar laws. Thara ara Hindu marriage they are being subjected to atrocities. m0- Act. 1955. Special MarriagaAct. 1954. Hindu lestations and rape. There should be no Succession Act. 1956. Hindu adoption of such thing. " India has to make progr.... Maintenance Act, 1956. There are so many women should be brought forward: If they Acts with us... (Interruptions)... Please let are left behind. India cannot make progress. me speak. There is need to be implemented Swami Vivekananda once said. (/nterTC.p­ these only. Law and order is a state-subject. tions) Its being a state-subject, the total responsi­ bility to implement the Ads rest on State SHRIMATI MALIN I BHATTACHARYA: Governments and Union territories. You should speak about the commission. (Interruptions) Swami VlVakananda had said I would like to request every member of that India cannot march ahead unless our the House to insist tha State Government as women are awakened. Women will have to to why they are not taking stringent meas· be brought forward If India wants to make ures to implemant those Bets. For this I want progress ..• (lntem.ptions) •.• 1 know what I to state: have to say. Even if you insist on me you would not succeed. We will do a thing what (English] we ara supposed to do. (Interruptions) Sometimes parties think that this matter does This is not alone a matter of U.P •• Rajasthan. not concem them, Our Gov.mment is think· Bengal. Tripura or any other State. It is ing for women and paying attention to them. related to every State. The Government In 1975 Mrs. Indira Gandhi constituted a should come forward to take stringent ac­ national commission on women. During the tion. At atrocities are on the increase. Are years 19n and 1989 the matt.r was widely the political panies not responsible for this? debated. But office of the commission could Of course, they are also responsible for this. not be set up. It takes time, but nothing concrete could be done Congr.ssm.n ,.. (Translation) main consistent to their words. They never back out of the sam •• Shri RafIY Gandhi Political atrocities are inflicted on women. during his tenure as Prime Minister left no Today, you may find It In three-four Stat •• I stone untumed to achieve the target. but do not want to make the debate controversial after thai eI.Jc:Iions were declared soon. (tIfer. to hurt anybody. But It Is a fact. our party Is tupIion$) not ruling in my States, but the party which is ruling there will torture. The party ruling In FlrSllisten to me. He could not do It due Tripura, will torture my party. In the other to eJections. Th.n Shri V.P. Singh's Govern­ State, my party will torture the other OM. m.nt also came to power. ("'t~) First of all. polltlcal atroc:ities should be ,.. duced. Leaders 01 all political parties and They also could not do .. the .'IId"'" their workers should think over the matter. were round the comer. Th. National Com­ They should .spouse the wom.n's cause. mission of Wom.n Ad was not applied In When political leaders and workers com. to Shah Bano case. Just think about It pi ..... 543 HaH-an-hour SEPTEMBER 12, 1991 National Comm;ssion 544 Discussion forwomBn [Shrimati Malinl Bhaltr.:''' .. ryaJ stringently implement the laws for their pr0- tection.

[English] [Ttanslation]

The Government had introduced the Bill First of all we would set up commission for on National Commission for Women in the women rights I have also been trying for lok Sabha on 22.5.1990. The Bill was dis­ setting up of National Commissionforwornen. cussed in the monsoon session of the lok It is not a political issue for women. Sabha. in 1990. The BiR was debated on 8th August, 1990 and it was passed in lok Sabha on 9.8. 1990. (English]

It was introduced in the Rajya Sabha on There should not be a partisan attitude in this 20.8.1990. It was debated in the Rajya Sabha maner. We are also interested in protecting on 22nd and 23rd of August, 1990. It was the rights of women. passed on 23rd August, 1990, by Rajya Sabha, It was a fact and the National Com­ [Translation] mission for Women AD.. 1990- No.20, was notified in the Gazette on 31.8.1990. How­ Now it is the discussion stage. When a ever, it has not been brought into force. legislation on National Commission for Women will be brought forward its responsi­ [ Translation] bilities will be specified. It has not yet been decided s to what would be the structure, the Our Government was formed only three function and organisation of the commission months back. Our manifesto stipulates that. for women rights. h would take some time. I would therefore, tell the Hon. Members. [English1 SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA(Bankura): The Commission on the status of women An act for this is already there. was set up by our Government. We have always believed that a special mechanism KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: Ad is for pursuing and monitoring the rights of already there, but unless the law is enforced, women should be created. It is, with a view people won' get justice. to see that our party manifesto stipulates that the Office of the Commissioner for women's ONE HON. MEMBER: What is the way rights will be estabfished to defend the out for this? women's rights and for taking timely action, in case of atrocities on women, in the first KUMARIMAMATABANERJEE:There 365 days. is a way to do it.

In the president's Addr... also, it had [Eng··14 been mentioned thai .. wiD take measur.. to enforce aD the legislations for women As you have asked the question I want which is already there in the Statute Book. to reply to it. As a first step we wil appoint a Commis­ sioner for Women rights for taking the r. quired action for effective enforcement of National Commisalon for Women wilt. women rights. I would likeJO assure the Han. only at the Central level. according to the Members that our Government will leave no Ad. Whet... Commiulofw for women atone unturned to ensure respect and dignity rights wit have 1he State branc::t.. ..., and of women citizens of our country and wi. dillrict level oHIoera wit help the women In 545 Half-an-hour BHADRA 21,1913 (SAKA) National Commission 546 Discussion for women the redressal of their grievan(;es. (lnferrup­ speeches alone. If proper implementation is tIons) not done, what Is use of setting up of com­ missions? A number or such commissions SHRIMATI SUSEELA GOPALAN: are already there. A large number of officials Commissions are already formed. It has work in these commissions. But it is of no use already beAn enforced in Kerala and in West when implementation is not done properly. Bengal, it is going to be passed. It is on the There should be a machinery to take care of anvit(lnterruptions) all these things. Then I would like to assure the Han. Members. (/nte"uptions) KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: Please listen to me ... (/nte"uptiom;) .. [English]

The matter is r.ow being politicallsed. Please MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: My request state why this was not done in the sevon to you is to let the Minister say what she month's period after the fall of Shri V.P. wants to say. Singh's GovArnment? There was enough time for this. It W83 not implemented even ( Interruptions) after the B!I! had been passed by the House. We came to power only three months back. ( Translation} A few days ~go 2-3 questions were put in this regard. KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: I would like to say that our department would eX1end (Eng/ish] evpry possible help to v.-omen. We want to I want to reply to the question raised by provide them legal protection, employment Suseelaji regarding family courts. The sub­ opportunities and also eX1end the aware­ ject of family c:ourts IS under the State Gov­ ness generation programmes to them. We ernment and under the Law and Justice are trying to help them through every pos­ Ministry. So far as my knowlede is sibl(> way. But as yet nothing has been concerned ... (/nterruptions)... You asked finalised about setting up of Commi~ion of about the Dowry Prohibition Act also. Humans Rights or National Commission of Women. Because, other Ministers, viz. the [ Trans#ation] Ministry of Law, the Health Ministry, the Department of Education and the Ministry of The august House passed the Dowry Agriculture are also involved in the process. Prohibition Ad. It is now for tMe State Gov­ So we can not take any decision now. I would ernments to implement it. I make a fervent like to assure you that after having mutual request to all the Han. Members to ensure consultations, we will definitely do some­ that State Governments pay more attention thing or the other for the development of to it. Women face employment problems. women. They do not get food. All of us should join hands if we want to give priority to rise the [English] standard of women. THE MINISTER OF 5TATE IN THE (English] MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE We need the cooperation of each and MINISTRY OF LAW, JUSTICE AND COM­ everybody so thai standard of women can be PANY AFFAIRS(SHRI RANGARAJAN raised. Otherwise, It will not be possible to KUMARAMANGALAM): I would like to dar­ raise their standard of living. (Interruptions) if, regarding the family courts. Now, under the Family Courts Ad, fortunately or unfortu­ [Translation] nately, it is provided that the State Govern­ ments are the ones which would take deci­ Nothing concrete Is achieved through these sion to set up family courts and to provide 547 Hal-an-hour SEPTEMBER 12.1991 National Commission 548 Discussion for women [Sh. Rangarajan Kumaraman.galam) definitely try to impress upon the High Court of Karala to allow the Govemment to set up infrastructure. When they Intimate. us, we the family courts In two or three or four notify it We have been requesting the States districts and lets the movement begin be­ 110 Intimate to us. Since this is a forum where cause this is in the interest of the people. all parties and all States are represented, I request you to take it up with your respective MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I permit Shrl­ State Govemments to impress upon them to matl Malini Bhattacharya, Shrimati Saroj kindly intimate the Central Government to Dubey and Shrimati Vasundhara Raje to ask notify. The moment they send us the intima­ some clarifications. as a special case. This tion. we are ready to do it. We have written to should not be treated as a precedent. them notonca but many time!' •We have sent many reminders to the State Govemments SHRIMATI MALINI BHA TIACHARYA: asking them to do it on a regular basis. It seems the Minister has made a distinction between the Commissioner'S Office and the SHRIMATJ SUSEELA GOPALAN: A/;­ National Commission on Women only in tually, we have approached the Kerala name as if there is no real difference. She Govemment on this question. They agreed has stated that whatever be the name, the to set up three family courts in three districts. work may continue. Hthis is her point of view. But the High Court said that in all the 14 then I would ask her to read the Act again. H districts, the family courts must be set up. I am right. later on she said that first of all they They have said that it will not be possible to would set up Commissioner's Office and allow the family courts only in three districts. later they would set up the Commission. If The real question is to find the money. This this Is so. then of course. she has distin­ is the issue that I raised to which the Minister guished between the two. So. in that case has not replied. You know that the State when an Ad. is there and when a simple Govemments will not be able to find so much notification is necessary to implement it. why money. So, my request is to set apart some is it necessary to set up a Commissioner's money in the Plan itself so that these social Office now and the National Commission legislations can be implemented aher they some time 18ter1 .apassed. Then 1would also like to ask that in the SHRJ RANGARAJAN KUMARAMAN­ National perspective Plan which was sub­ GAlAM: I welcome the suggestion. In fact, J mitted in 1988. there was a debate on that ~IYI8. have taken it up with the Planning and during that debate almost all the women Commission and asked them to provide some organisations rejected the idea of a commis­ amount in the Plan IlsaJffor administrative sioner's office for women and instead they justice especially where social causes are recommended a National Commission for involved. At. the same time let me ctarify thai Women, a statutory autonomous body. So. 1 it may not be necessary to .et apart a new would like to know why even after that the building or to establish new infrastructur •. In Govemment have again gone back to that the axisting district courts, it is possble to r.jaded idea of a commissioner's office carve out one court for the purposes of a Instead of having a National Commission family court. II has been done in other States which was unanimously passed. without incurring additional expenditura. FinaRy. since she has put 8 lot of ra- J understand the situation In Karala 3J)OftIbiJity on the Stat.. I would lik. to because the High Court has intimated that. suggett to her only that women's problems would Ike to Itart • on a toIaI Itate"""" are not Just law and ord.r problems which baIis.ln other ar.... where the High Courts the State can solve by instituting police Ie­ haw not Insisted on thil, they have HI up tion. • iI a much more important problem II the family courts in cer1ain are... Wa wi. a nationallavel W. are. of course, rec:om- 549 Half-an-hour BHADRA 21.1913 (SAKA) National Commission 550 Discussion for women mending decentralisation of State Commis­ Why I am worried? If something hap­ aions with district level branches. And. such pens in Tripura - if it is not a Congress ruled • State Commission can only function when State - the Opposition Members will shout. It is coordinated with a nationallevel.body. When it is a question of West Bengal. they will not say anything. It is not a matter of West So. I would like to have a response to Bengal or Tripura. We should not take these that. Sir. matters as matters that come under the State subject. When I am not in power. then KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: Sir. let I will criticise. When they are not in power. me say at the outset that I have gone through they will criticise. That is why. we are going all the reports of National Commission for to establish the Office of the Commissioner Women and I have also seen the recommen­ of Women Right tor giving protection to dation to have the Commissionefs Office for women. women's right. Regarding National Commission for In 1989. when Shri Rajiv Gandhi was Women, the President has already stated in the Prime Minister, he initiated steps to set his Address that we are going to set up such up the Office of Commissioner for Women's Commission. (Interruptions) No decision has Right. 11 you give me at least one hour's time. yet been taken. I am not telling you that the I can read out all the proposals. matter is closed. The matter is not closed. (Inteffuptions) SHRIMATI MALINI BHATTACHARYA: Sir. the agreed reoommendationofthedebate MR DEPUTY SPEAKER: Shrimati Saroj on the national perspective plan says that a Dubey. National Commission should be set up. [ Translation] MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Shall I make a suggestion to the Hon. Minister? Since, it SHRIMATI SAROJ DUBEY(Allahabad): is the fag end of the day, I request the Hon. Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, the Minister has Minister to call all the lady Members and been Irying 10 give a reply since long and has discuss the matter with them. related the miserable condition of women. I would like to know only this much as to why does nol Ihe Government give a straight KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: Sir, I reply about the present position of State have already discussed this matter with the Women Commission in which had been lady Members of the House like Shrimati conslituted by the National Front Govem­ Geeta Mukherjee and others. ment in order to bring the women to the national mainstream by raising their social, I agree that it is an important problem economic and political status? I would fur­ and the Central Government should do ther like that the Hon. Minister should give a something in this regard. But, there are some clear cut reply about the Constitution of rules and regulations. Law and order is a National Women Commission. Will a Woman State subject. So, Central Government Commissioner be appointed? Please let me cannot interfere in any State matter. I re­ know whether the woman commissioner, quest Shrimati Malini 3hattacharya to recol· who will be a Government officer, will have Iect that when one lady named Anita Dewan the same powers as that of the Chairman of was brutally murdered il'\ West Bengal, so Women Commission. many reputed ladies went there to attend some function and they were also murdered. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also We asked for a CB I Inquiry but it was not held like to say that there are already a large because law and order is B State subject and number 01 ol!icers and bureaucrats who Central Govemment cannot int8l'fere in it. havw been appointed to ensure women's 551 Haf-an-hour SEPTEMBER 12. 1991 National Commission 552 Discussion for women (Shrimati Saroj Dubey) House and they tried more often than not to disturb the ladie&-whether It Is the Minister development in this country. Still, what are or lor that matt.r anybody .Is...... who are the reasons that innocent girls like Ameena worried about this. are being sold every day? girl like Sugrna are being t~ of th.ir dresses on the roads, So, there Ia no point In arguing further. Injustice is being done to women agricultural I think, all of us have to sit down and decide labourers. The condition of women is very about it. Why hair-splitting? Why do we say deplorable. If I go on relating the tortures our anything about the State Government or the women are being subjected to, our eyes will Central Govemment or the National Com­ be filled with tears. That is why I want to know mission? Let us come down to something about the safety of those suffering women. which is basic; let us do it soon. Are you Why does not the Hon. Minister give a straight prepared to do it and how soon will you do ia? reply? Why does she want to pass on this work of bringing awareness among women KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: I have to officials? Why does not she announce the already told in what way we can do it from our constitution of National Women Commis­ Department, we are ready to do that. I have sion? already said, the name is not a matter. Wa have to 58e how we can help the women fok. [English] We are ready to do it as early as possible.

SHRIMATI VASUNDHARA RAJE SHRIMATI MALINI BHATTACHARYA (Jhalawar): MR. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank (Berhampore): What are your difficulties you very much for giving me an opportunity about setting up a commission for women? to speak.

Obviously. we are all very exercised about this issue. We have been exercised about it for the whole of this particular Ses­ THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE sion. I do not want to make a lengthy speech MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS on this. AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINIS­ TRY OF LAW, JUSTICE AND COMPANY I would like to slice through the Whole AFFAIRS (SHRt RANGARAJAN thing. Since the issue is of such a burning KUMARAMANGALAM): I propose that we importance, since we are all worried about it, should sit upto eight 0' clock and conclude is it not necessary that we should come to the the discussion on the Finance Bill. conclusion quickly? You meet with the people and discuss with them. Aie you willing to sit MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: There ara a down and give yourself a time bar within number of Hon. Members who want to taka which you wiD put up a framework which is part in the discussion on the Finance Bill. If going to take care of this slt\Jation? We are you all agree, we can sit upto eight o'clock not going to face this day~oday occurrence­ and do justice to the subject. There are Hon. whether it is in the House, whether it is Members who could not get a chance to outside to read it in the papers-because it speak in this Session. Therefore, my humbl. is extremely shameful. So, whether it is my request is that we should try to accommo­ Han. friend Shrimati Malini Bhattacharya date those Hon. Members also. Let every over here or Saroji or the Minister or myself Han. Member stick to five minutes only. It is or any Member oftha B.J.P. Ifealthat we ara no use going on ringing tha beU now and aJ worried about it. I think, even the male then. Members, when we started the discussion on atrocities on women or any such problem, SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES (Muzaf­ , find that there is a general hilaritY in the farpur): You make it upto 7.30 P.M. 553 Finance BHADRA 21,1913 (SAKA) (No.2) Bill 554 , MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shrl R. Now black money deposited in banks Jeevarathinam. attract income tax and it is combined with the inmmetax already paid by such black money hoIders.lnst8adof encouraging black money holders to deposit them in banks, this method 18.57 hr•• of taxation discourage them. Hehce I re­ quest the Hon'ble Finance Minister to treat FINANCE (NO.2) BIU-Contd. such accounts separately and to coiled taxes levied exclusively on them. [ Translation] 19.00 hr•• ·SHRI· R. JEEVARATHINAM (Ar­ akkonam) : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, while The ceiling on taxable income remains welcoming and supporting the second FI­ to be twenty tow thousand rupees. The pres­ nance Bill moved by the Hon'ble Finance ent day prices and salaries if when taken in Minister, I would like to share some of my top consideration would suggest that even views for his kind consideration. ordinary people could earn easily AS.17501- or As.2000 a month. Middle class people are He has announced certain tax relief and the ones who are worst hit by the low income tax exemption on certain goods and com­ tax ceiling limit now. Hence I request the modities.1 welcome them. He has announced Hone'ble Finance Minister to raise liberally income tax exemption on deposits in Aural the income tax ceiling lim it to thirty thousand Land Mortgage Banks, Land Development rupees from existing twenty tow thousand Banks and Cooperative banks. I welcome ceiling limit. This kind gesture of the Finance the tax relief measures with particular refer­ Minister would benefit the salaried class at ence to this tax exemption to those who large. deposit in Aural Banks. I would also request the Finance Minis­ Likewise I heartily welcome excise duty ter to reconsider the slab rates method in the exemption given to beverages made of truit levying of income tax. Those who are in the pulp and fruit juices. Finance Minister has income bracket of two to three lakhs of announced excise duty reduction of As. 25 rupees find it fleecing to pay a tax to the tune from As. 300 levied on picture tubes of black of forty to sixty per cent of their income. This and white T.V. sets. The reduction to the taxation method appears to give rise to black tune of As. 25 may kindly be further reduced money. Our able Finance Minister should to As, 100 so that it could be really beneficial look into this problem in a right perspective. a relief from the budgetary proposal he made I would like to say that appropriate restruc­ earlier. turing would yield better results. In the pres­ ent circumstances revenues from wealth tax In order to bring out the black money, is not good enough. I would like to suggest Finance Minister has announced that there that wealth tax may be increased to augment may not be levying of fine on voluntary the revenue from this area. disclosure or investment in Aural Housing Schemes. I would welcome this and would There is yet another way to bring out like to cite an earlier instance. When Mr. R. black money. Even our Finance Minister has Venkatraman was our Finance Minister, he announced in his Budget speech that invest­ took efforts to bring out black money through ment deposits made in Aural Housing Loan the issuance of 'Bearer Bonds'. I request the banks will be exempted from income tax. Let preseni Finance Minister to reconsider the me request the Finance Minister to extend feasibility of that earlier scheme. this concession to urban housing too. In

-Translations of the speech originally delivered in Tamil.