Don T Lose That Start-Up State of Mind

October 16, 2010 Don’t Lose That Start-Up State of Mind

This interview with Jenny Ming, president and C.E.O. of Charlotte Russe, a clothing chain, was conducted and condensed by Adam Bryant. Ms. Ming is a former president of Old Navy.

Q. How do you run meetings?

A. I want a really authentic, good conversation. We had interns this summer, and in the beginning they were afraid to speak. But in the meantime, they are our customer — I mean, literally — because they’re 21, 22, and that’s who we sell to. So in the beginning, they wouldn’t say how they feel.

And I said: “Tell me what you love, what you don’t love. You have to have an opinion because actually I pay for your opinion. I pay you to have a point of view, good or bad.” And toward the end of the summer, they couldn’t wait to tell me what they thought. Most people can’t wait to tell you what they think anyway, but they didn’t know that they could.

Q. Have you always done that?

A. I’ve always done that, even when I was in Old Navy and Gap, because I think that kind of environment is very important. We get probably the best advice or the best decisions when it’s a little bit more democratic. I don’t always have to agree with them, but I certainly should listen to them because they are more of the target customer than me. I think everybody has to have a point of view. If they don’t have a point of view, they shouldn’t be sitting around the table, because it’s about clothes. Do we believe in this? Do we like this? Should we go after this? How can you not have a point of view?

I really make sure that the environment is casual enough, the environment is open enough to hear that, and people love that — especially now with Charlotte Russe; it’s a smaller company.

Q. You’ve gone from running a large company at Old Navy to a small one. Talk about that transition.

A. I love it. There are very few layers. You’re much more nimble. We can make a decision, and we can execute really fast. And being private makes it even better, so that we can make a lot of things happen quickly. I actually had a specific structure in mind when I thought about running a smaller company.

Q. And what was it?

A. I really wanted a flat organization. I want to be able to hire the best people in each function, and they all — more than 10 of them — report directly to me. My job actually is connecting all those functions. I get to see the big picture and make sure everybody is aligned. It’s unusual to have that many direct reports, but in a small company it’s very doable.

Q. What else are you trying to foster in terms of the company culture?

A. I consider ourselves a start-up, a turnaround and a growth company. Some people might say, “How can it be all three?” It’s a start-up because it’s a small company and resources are scarce, and we need to be scrappy and innovative, just like a start-up. So if we think “start-up,” then we prioritize correctly, because we can’t do everything. What is really going to make a difference to us? And what are the resources that are going to really move the company? So I would say that we think very much like a start-up.

And we’re a turnaround. I mean, that’s the reason we bought the company, to reposition it. We want to give Charlotte Russe a branding that it really never had before and really change the business model. And then the growth part is because there are parts of Charlotte Russe that are really strong, so how do we take that strength and grow it?

Q. When you helped Old Navy grow, when did you stop thinking about it as a start-up?

A. I was there from the very beginning. But, later, I still considered it a start-up. I think when we were a $3 billion company, someone said to me, “Jenny, we’re not a start-up.” And I said to them, “I think we have to have that mentality of a start-up,” because I think it’s very healthy to think that way — resources are scarce, so what should we do? I have learned that you always have to have a little bit of that. It’s a state of mind. Q. What other benefits do you see from that approach?

A. I think it makes you hungry. It makes you the underdog — you want to prove that you can do it. There are many times when you are a start-up that you feel like, “I’m here to prove something,” and I think that sometimes is also healthy. I’m not saying that you should always feel that all the time. But there are certain times you should use that, and there are certain times you shouldn’t.

Q. What were your most important leadership lessons?

A. There are a few. I was just out of college. I was working at Mervyn’s, and I was a department manager in domestics — linens, towels, those kinds of things. The salespeople tended to be housewives. And one month into my job, my boss called me in and said: “You know, Jenny, you’re not going to make it in the business. You’re just too nice, and you let everybody walk all over you.”

Of course, you can imagine if it’s your first month in the job and someone’s telling you that. It’s pretty devastating. So I didn’t know what to say. I was about 23 at the time. So I thought about it. And I said: “Well, I can’t give up. It’s only my first month on the job.”

So the next day I went back to work, and I told all the sales associates, “The manager said to me that I’m not going to make it because I’m just too nice and let all of you walk all over me.” I said exactly what he said because I just had to tell them the truth. And they all were really surprised.

I said: “You know, I let you guys talk all the time. I’m probably going to get fired, and then you are going to get a new boss, and they are going to probably be much, much harder on you than I am.”

And so they all said, “Well, what do you want us to do?” And I just said: “Well, how about this? I will schedule your break if you tell me who you want to go on break with so you can chit-chat. But when you’re here, you really have to do the work.” And they said, “Of course, we’ll do it for you.” That was a great lesson for me.

Q. And what was the lesson?

A. I learned very early on to communicate, to set expectations and not be afraid to tell the truth.

Q. What were some moments of adversity that you encountered in your career?

A. I’ve been very fortunate. But one time I was passed over for a promotion. I didn’t understand why. And so I went in to talk to my boss, and he said to me, “Well, I didn’t know you were that ambitious.” And I said, “Is it because I have children?” He said, “Well, I just did not know.” I said, “You could have asked.” I just think so many times people just assume that if you’re a woman or if you have kids that you’re not ambitious. He realized he was wrong. It’s not like I was saying, “I want to be president of the company.” It wasn’t even a huge promotion. And I learned from that that I cannot assume anything about people.

So I always ask people: “What do you want to do in the future? What is your ambition? What is your dream job?” So that very much is in my conversation with people because it happened to me. I have three kids, and they’re all adults now. So I really believe that you can balance both, and that’s something that I really try to make sure that I help women do throughout my career.

Q. How do you hire?

A. First of all, when I’m interviewing, I try to just have conversations, because I find that when you have a conversation, you learn more. I sometimes need to meet them at least twice, even three times, especially if they’re my direct report. I like to walk away learning something new. If I can’t learn anything new from a conversation with somebody I want to hire, then I don’t think that is a good thing.

Q. Specifically about business?

A. It could be anything. I look for someone who is very diverse, someone who has an incredible sense of curiosity, who knows what’s going on in pop culture. You have to be aware because clothing is about being of the moment. So if you’re not aware of what’s going on around you in pop culture, music, food, clothes — they all kind of blend together — then you might not be right for an apparel retailer.

Q. If you could ask somebody only two or three questions to decide whether or not you were going to hire them, what would they be?

A. I always love to know what are some of the things they failed in, because people always want to tell you their successes. They don’t always want to tell you what they didn’t do well. It doesn’t even have to be business; it could be life lessons. I think it’s pretty telling. What did they do afterward? How did they overcome that? I always look for somebody who’s very comfortable admitting when something didn’t work out.

Q. And why is that important?

A. Because that means they take risks and they can admit it if something goes wrong. One of my mottoes is always: “You can’t fix something if you don’t admit it’s wrong. If you don’t know what’s wrong, you can’t fix it.” So I always say, especially in our business, you can’t always be right. Admit it when something is not working.

Q. Any others? A. I’m always very interested in hearing about the last thing they bought.

Q. Clothes?

A. Most of them say clothes. And the reason is that I’m very interested in the thought process — why is it important for them? It really runs the gamut. It’s kind of interesting to hear what people say.