Lady Deborah Macmillan and Jann Parry

Lady Deborah MacMillan and Jann Parry Monday 21st January 2013 Civil Service Club, SW1

New Chairman, Susan Dalgetty Ezra, introduced guests Lady Deborah MacMillan and Jann Parry for the first (snowy) LBC meeting of 2013. Deborah is the wife of acclaimed choreographer, Kenneth MacMillan, and holds the rights to all of his ballets, and Jann is the author of MacMillan’s award-winning biography, ‘Different Drummer’.

Jann began by asking Deborah which of MacMillan’s works was most popular with ballet companies. It is Manon, which is performed by 20 companies around the world despite originally receiving terrible reviews. “Kenneth did say to me, if anything's done in the future it will beManon. It's the most requested ballet and the work that ballerinas want to do. I'm pleased some of the original critics have stayed around to see its success.”

How does Deborah go about giving companies permission to perform the ballets? “I respond to requests. I'm not a dancer so I have to be quite careful how I run things and not be a bossy Australian. Someone, usually a notator or producer, needs to see the company and decide if they are capable of performing MacMillan's work. Then they put the ballet on. I get personally involved in the last couple of weeks. As my background is in visual arts, I help with lighting and other details. It is better to withdraw a work if a company are not performing it correctly as it makes both the dancers and the choreography look bad. The Kirov Ballet is no longer allowed to do Manon for that reason. Each dancer there has an individual coach with their own ideas and so the work gets changed substantially. When I last saw it, it looked like a dog's dinner!”

What is Deborah’s view on new designs for MacMillan’s ballets? “It's not usually the case that a company can't afford the original designs, but that they want their own version for whatever reason, usually for ease of touring. I like that – it's great to see the ballet through a new, young designer's eyes. Any revival will have an imprint of who puts them on, but as much as possible they retain the integrity of Kenneth's original.”

Deborah described some of her particular experiences with international companies.Anastasia was recently put on in Japan for just a two-night run. “Working in Japan is like working in heaven. It was remarkable – everything works perfectly.” In Queensland, Australia, the ballet company has only 34 dancers but are putting on MacMillan’s Romeo and Juliet with the aid of older guest dancers and local performers. “Three act works can be reduced for a smaller cast as long as they don't lose the integrity of the work.”

Both Jann and Deborah are keen to see more of MacMillan’s one act ballets. Deborah stated “The Royal Ballet has the most astonishing heritage of work. They should be showing it more regularly. But they have to balance their heritage with creating new works and pleasing the accountants. There aren't enough nights in the year. Also, it is difficult to evaluate older works – video recordings are not very good and don't show off the work so directors don’t realise how great they would be to perform. I’d love to see Kenneth’s early attempts at narrative work, likeThe Invitation. It was quite a shocking ballet at the time and shows the roots of his later works.”

Jann commented on Las Hermanas, which was performed at the Royal Opera House last year. “It has very tricky choreography. You don't notice as you get caught up in the story, but Kenneth was such a good choreographer of pure dance.” The guests then discussed MacMillan’s Sleeping Beauty, which was recently performed by English National Ballet. Why did Deborah think this ballet was so important? “Kenneth would say, ‘If a company can't do Sleeping Beauty, then I don't want to choreograph on them. If they are up to that level, then they can do what I want. It's the cornerstone of the art form, what ballet comes from.’ Sleeping Beauty shows a level of technique throughout a company. That's why Kenneth kept going back to it.”

Jann described MacMillan as someone who “broke the rules” of ballet choreography. Deborah described the choreographer’s style in more detail. “His language was choreography. Choreographically anything was possible. All the movements are a means to an end – the intent is more important. He never wanted to destroy classical ballet but to use it. Beauty was a model of how to do things. He wanted to work with exquisite bodies, classically-trained, with beautiful turn out and technique. Kenneth hated labels – they constricted things. There are lots of crossovers between ballet and dance. Look at Darcey Bussell in ‘Strictly Come Dancing’ – there's no greater crossover than that! Kenneth choreographed dance for dancers.”

The guests discussed the lighting and other backstage demands of MacMillan’s ballets. Jann had been to a seminar introducing lighting principles to critics earlier in the day. “Lighting designers have so little time to prepare for opera and ballet performances. There are no previews like in musicals and other theatre.” For Deborah, “The noise in general rehearsals is people having nervous breakdowns as it's the first time they've seen the work on the stage and it looks completely different. It's amazing how professional people are behind the scenes. You can make changes at the eleventh hour and they go and deal with it. They're as passionate about it being a success as any of the dancers onstage… It doesn't matter how beautifully someone is dancing if you can't see them or the atmosphere is wrong. Lighting is so important and so powerful emotionally. I've learnt more about painting through watching stage lighting than I did at art school.”

Deborah commented on the harshness of critics. “Critics are too keen to say a work isn’t successful. They shouldn’t be so black and white. Ballet is an art form that doesn't exist without being performed. It's an experience. The reviews are just six or seven versions of that experience. Jann is a great critic. She brings a lot of other experience into her reviews so they're interesting to read. A lot of critics take a stand just because that's what they think they should do.”

Jann replied: “In defence of critics, there is huge amount of information take in during a performance. Like with Mayerling, you need subtitles with arrows saying who is who! And you have to try and write something coherent in a small space. It’s only when you see the ballets over and over again that you understand the full story and who all the people are.” Audience members then asked questions. How did MacMillan feel about Frederick Ashton? Deborah replied: “He admired him enormously. He learnt how to choreograph by being in Ashton's ballets. He was aware his own choreography had to be different, though there are Ashtonian touches, like the maids in Mayerling and parts of The Prince of the Pagodas.” How does Deborah feel about Kevin O’Hare taking over as artistic director of the Royal Ballet?

Kevin O'Hare is very approachable and he's interested in the heritage of the company. He also brings a lot of experience from outside of the ballet world. Personally, I think 21 Nutcrackers is too many, but they sold out and the box office has to add up.” Finally, did MacMillan have any plans for new works before his death? Deborah stated: “He said he was never going to choreograph ever again, but he always said that. He'd actually committed to another three works for the Royal Ballet. I think he might have liked to create something to unaccompanied vocals, but he kept his cards close to his chest.”

The evening finished with Susan thanking the guests for their fascinating insights into MacMillan’s world and choreography.