Township of Mahwah s18

TOWNSHIP OF MAHWAH SPECIAL WORK SESSION MEETING MINUTES WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 22, 2007

The meeting was called to order at 8:05 PM by Council President DiGiulio who read the Open Public Meetings Act Statement as prescribed by law. Notice was advertised in The Record on August 1, 2007 stating this meeting would be held on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 at 8:00 PM at the Municipal Offices, 475 Corporate Drive, Mahwah, New Jersey.

Notice of this meeting is posted on the Municipal Bulletin Board. The minutes of this meeting shall be available in the Municipal Clerk’s Office.

Salute to the Flag.

Present: Councilmembers Alderisio, DaPuzzo, DiGiulio, Hermansen, Kidd, Larson and Roth

Also present were Mayor Richard Martel, Business Administrator Brian Campion, Township Attorney’s Associate Nilufer DeScherer, Municipal Planner Joseph Burgis and Deputy Municipal Clerk Jan Fox.

DiGiulio said Council previously discussed the rezoning of the Crossroads property. More information was needed on the proposed Crossroads Rezoning Site and the Developer has come back with a new presentation to the Council and the Public.

Attorney Jim Jaworski, Legal Counsel for Crossroad Developers, stated he was submitting his latest version of the proposed plan. He wanted to address all concerns and assure the Council that all improvements would be completed prior to the zoning. He suggested that part of the solution would be something incorporated into the Ordinance that would dictate a final Certificate of Occupancy for any retail development and require completion of the Traffic Mitigation Plan as approved by both the New Jersey and New York Department of Transportation.

Mr. Jaworski feels they have solved not only the mitigation of the proposed Development but also the traffic problem with Route 17, Route 87 and Route 287 merger area that the Township has been burdened with.

Mr. Jaworski distributed to Council a three page document listing three considerations; Ordinance Considerations, Traffic Considerations and Miscellaneous Considerations. In the Miscellaneous Considerations of the Concept Site Plan he addressed concerns about the existing heliport the Jersey Street Bridge and potential security problems. He confirmed that the Developers purchased 40 acres of the D’Agostino parcel with 20 acres staying in its natural state. Mr. Jaworski explained they created an Ordinance Consideration Site Plan with specific building sizes, zoning restrictions and specific bulk design criteria. Combined Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes August 22, 2007 Page 2

Mr. Jaworski said in his Traffic Considerations proposal he listed redirecting traffic, reconfiguring roads, and constructing new ramps connecting Route 287 and Route 87 South, all subject to New Jersey Department of Transportation and New Departments of Transportation.

Mr. Jaworski said the cost estimate of the Traffic Mitigation Plan has risen from between $1 and $3 million to between $6 and $8 million due to additional road improvements. To offset this increase, Crossroad Developers wants to increase the retail portion to 550,000 square feet which is 150,000 square feet more than the Township originally agreed to. 65,000 square feet will be for a theatre, 200,000 square feet for office space, 50 square feet for recreation/fitness and 20 acres will be used for recreation.

Mr. Jaworski introduced the Traffic Engineer, Dan Disario, who presented Council with a reduced version map of the site. Mr. Disario gave a brief review of what they had proposed previously and the proposed improvements of what he feels will eliminate the traffic backup going north and east to the Tappan Zee Bridge. The increased cost is due to additional road improvements at a higher level. Mr. Disario explained about reconfiguring the Leisure Line and Mountainside Avenue, intersections by Stag Hill, creating a cul-de-sac on Mountainside Avenue, creating acceleration lanes and creating longer and wider service lanes and eliminates one access into the site.

Hermansen asked how long it would take to complete this project. Mr. Disario said within two to four years. Mr. Jaworski said the timing would be their problem. There will be a process and there will be no Certificate of Occupancy on retail improvements until such time as improvements are completed.

Alderisio questioned the length of the cul-de-sac. Mr. Disario answered 500 or 600 feet. Alderisio said it is important to have new signs on both sides of the highway.

Larson asked if there has been any thought given to the impact this Development will have on Route 202 when there is a backup on Route 17. Mr. Disario stated the improvements proposed should eliminate the backups on Route 17 northbound. Larson asked Mr. Disario if he has an estimate of how many cars will be going into this facility, especially at rush hour. Mr. Disario anticipates 25 or 30% coming north and the balance coming south and feels the large majority will be off hours. Larson questioned if people will be cutting through the shopping center. Mr. Disario said no one will be cutting through it but will be using the frontage road or the Sharp service road.

Roth asked what will happen to the old portion of Stag Hill when the new road goes in. Mr. Disario said the old road alignment would be conveyed to the property owners. Roth asked if Combined Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes August 22, 2007 Page 3 they have studied traffic flow at the intersections. Mr. Disario said they have not done any detailed analysis.

Roth asked if anyone has consulted the New York Department of Transportation. Mr. Disario said they have not. Roth asked if they have consulted with Sharp or Leisure Line. Mr. DiGiovanni said they have spoken with the owner of Leisure Line and the owner feels the rezoning would be a benefit to them. He said they also have had some conversation with Sharp.

Roth asked if they feel the $6 to $8 Million will cover all the work associated with the project. Mr. Disario said yes.

Kidd has concerns about residents on Stag Hill and feels they will be stuck in traffic most of the time and wondered if there would be a traffic light on Mountainside Avenue. Mr. Disario does not envision needing one there. Kidd asked if any property owners have been consulted in the Mountainside Avenue area. Mr. Disario said they have not. Kidd feels traffic is generated north of the Crossroads, in New York, and asked if anything is being done to lessen the bottleneck there. Mr. Disario does not feel that that area further north is causing the bottleneck.

DaPuzzo asked if we rezone and the Department of Transportation says we cannot do certain things, what part of the Ordinance protects the Township. Mr. Burgis answered they could make it a conditional use and make certain conditions for traffic improvements or make supplemental regulatory requirements in the Ordinance. Mr. DiGiovanni commented they need the Township’s approval for rezoning which will give them to right to do the improvement work.

DaPuzzo asked about the possibility of having a direct exit from Route 287 northbound right to Route 17 southbound. Mr. Disario said it is possible but said it would be difficult.

DiGiulio asked if the Department of Transportation could look at the turn around past Sharp. She asked if anything could be done as a lot of trucks are overturning. DaPuzzo stated that Maria Cino from the Federal Government had been there when a truck had a problem turning. At that time, the Department of Transportation recommended $500,000 be allocated to the Mayor to study this intersection. Mayor Martel said this was almost two years ago and the Township has not acquired any of this money.

DiGiulio pointed out the Route 202 cutoff through the West Mahwah area has to be addressed if any improvement is going to be done. Mr. Jaworski said the Department of Transportation indicated they have no money for this project and will not make any changes in this area. DiGiulio said everything has to be done right and not “band aided”. Combined Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes August 22, 2007 Page 4

Hermansen agreed with Kidd and feels roads leading to Greenwood Lake backs up traffic on Route 17.

Hermansen asked if Leisure Line had to go all around the roads to get in and out of the area.

Mr. DiGiovanni said this project will be step by step, needs a lot of coordination and they hope their plan is desirable for this area.

Alderisio asked if same construction will cross into New York State and will we need their approval. Mr. DiGiovanni answered there will be some in New York State and they will need their approval.

DiGiulio asked if our Police Department has seen the proposal for security. Mr. Jaworski said no.

DiGiulio asked about the lighting. Mr. Jaworski said there will be low lighting on timers. and the 20 acres of buffer area with no lights.

The Township Planner said they were initially asked to critique zoning regulations and applicant Mr. Kauker of Kauker Associates submitted a Fiscal Cost Benefits Analysis and made some comments. At the time, Burgis said, Council had been critical of some comments in Mr. Kauker’s report and they did not understand where all the figures came from. Mr. Burgis was then asked to prepare a new Fiscal Cost Benefits Assessment. Mr. Burgis commented on this report and he went into a lot of background analysis going into various municipalities that had similar developments to get an assessment and impact on this type of development. Mr. Burgis stated at the end his firm came to almost the same conclusion as Mr. Kauker’s report and feels that both came to a basic conclusion that it does represent a net fiscal benefit to the Township.

Mr. Burgis went on to explain the cost of this proposed development. Mr. Burgis showed charts that he showed a number of assessments on. He said they looked at the Municipal Budget and broke it down to various categories and measured gross revenues against gross costs.

Mr. Burgis explained the net revenue surplus would be approximately $230,000 annually and estimates the ratable value based on the square footage would be $230 million. The property would generate approximately $2.6 million in tax revenue annually, including $230,000 to the Township and approximately $1.7 million to the school district.

Mr. Burgis stated they spoke with the Police Chief and will adjust the school revenue to make up the difference of the four extra Police that will be needed at a salary of $120,000 per officer per year. Mr. Burgis found out that out of 2,000 police calls per year, 50% represent people not Combined Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes August 22, 2007 Page 5 being able to find their car. Mr. Burgis feels this project would generate approximately 60 fire calls per year.

Mr. Burgis said based on the proposed development’s square footage they estimate this project would generate 1,380 employees.

Larson questioned the figure and the chart of $1.9M. Mr. Burgis explained the total tax revenue of $1.9M. He said the $2.6 million includes the County’s portion.

DiGiulio asked what the Township would receive annually and should be reviewed with caution. Mr. Burgis said it varies under the per capita assessment.

Roth questioned the current revenue of $1.4M and 65% going to the school system. He feels out of all the jobs that will be created there will be children at a net of 2% added to our school system and will have a financial impact. Mr. Burgis said there could be families moving in to the Township but also families moving out which could be a wash or rates would be adjusted accordingly.

Hermansen mentioned if there was 1.8 Million square feet of office space the impact on our school system would be much greater then using the area for retail space. Hermansen added that reassessments that the Township will have next year will also change some numbers.

DaPuzzo asked if the percentage of the tax rate could be adjusted. Mr. Burgis said every year you could make adjustments.

Larson asked if the turmoil in the credit market have an effect on the Developers. Mr. DiGiovanni said no.

Kidd asked if the owner would fully develop what he is currently allowed to build would that have more of a negative impact financially on the Township than the proposed project. Mr. Burgis said he did not do a Cost Revenue Analysis on pure office.

Alderisio mentioned the Township currently has 600 Affordable Housing units which is a 200 surplus. This proposal would generate 55 or 56 units so we are in the range limit and would not have to build anymore Affordable Housing.

On a motion by Roth, seconded by Hermansen, the meeting was opened to the Public at 10:20PM. All in favor. Motion carried. Combined Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes August 22, 2007 Page 6

Mr. Keith Blockin, who owns a business in the Township, feels the Township has a lot of eating establishments. He does not see a need for anymore retail in the Township and feels it will cause a traffic problem as he cannot see the traffic problem ever being fixed. Mr. Blockin said he hopes the Council thinks about the tax payer.

Mrs. Stephanie Derrig of 144 Miller Road said as in most Townships we put the “cart before the horse” in terms of development. Ms. Derrig feels if we had an adequate Master Plan we would know how much retail, residential and commercial we need to benefit our Township now and as we grow in the future. Mrs. Derrig said she found a quote from the Mayor when the original plan was to be a strip mall, saying, there is too much retail. Mrs. Derrig feels it very important to take a look as to where we want to go as a community and balance our needs.

Mr. Robert Zisgen of 85 Hopkins Court said he had been skeptical of this proposed development last year but what he has heard this evening, has given him assurance and feels it could be a benefit to our community. He had been at a “Lifestyle Mall” this past week and was presently surprised how nice it was.

Mr. Mike DeLuca of 11 Parsons Court said he is appalled at this proposal and is frightened that there may be a traffic light. He asked if Rockland Electric can handle this additional power usage. Mr. Jaworski said they have discussed this with Orange and Rockland. Mr. DeLuca said our Township is restricted from by the State as far as availability of water we can draw from our wells. Mr. DeLuca asked if there was any estimate from the Developers as how much water will be needed for this project. The Business Administrator said he has discussed this with the Water Consultant and said this will be on our Agenda in a few weeks as they will be discussing this along with addressing the Water Facilities Plan which has to be completed within 90 days.

Mr. DeLuca asked if the Township is required to purchase additional water from United Water would the tax payers have to pay for this or the Developer. The Business Administrator explained that all of our water cost is paid for by the customers of the Water Utility but not all tax payers. The percentage of water the Township delivers is marked up. If we have to purchase additional gallons from United Water, we would purchase that water and that would be our supply, but we sell it at a greater cost than we buy it for. Commercial customers pay different rates than residential customers.

Mr. Tom Dillon of 10 Bergen Place said he has been a resident for 30 years and always enjoyed the serenity of sitting in his backyard. This project will be in his backyard. He does appreciate the Mayor and Council looking into this project and considering the people in the West Mahwah area. He said he also wants to make sure the Township residents have the input of the residents along the river front. Mr. Dillon said he has concerns about the buffer, the noise and the changes in the roadway as they would impact the responses from the Emergency Response Teams. Mr. Combined Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes August 22, 2007 Page 7

Dillon suggested the Mayor and Council asking Emergency Services to set up a Steering Committee to get their input on this proposed Development.

Mr. George Wagner of 26 Bartholf Lane asked about the green space on the map and what would go there. Mr. Jaworski said it will stay the way it is. Mr. Wagner asked who would own the roads inside the shopping area and who would pay for the lighting. Mr. Jaworski said the Developer will.

Mr. Wagner said he was curious why the Traffic Engineer did not meet with the New York Department of Transportation as he feels the traffic route on Route 59 and Sloatsburg is the reason for traffic jams. Mr. Wagner has concerns about Holidays with traffic backing up and cutting through West Mahwah. Mr. Wagner asked if they will restrict the trucks’ access to Route 17. Mr. Jaworski answered they will not. Mr. Wagner questioned if all of the re-development is worth the $239,000.

Mrs. Heidi Topken of 9 Arrowhead Road feels these suggested roads will not be sufficient to help the traffic situation and there is traffic everyday of the week. Mrs. Topken raised questions about the landowners of the roads by Stag Hill and how would we interest store owners to come to this area. She feels all these things mean a delay in negotiations, planning and timing does not make sense.

Mr. William Topken of 9 Arrowhead Road reiterated what Mrs. Derrig that the Township should have a Master Plan. He feels the huge trucks pulling out of the gas stations near this proposed area is a problem and does not feel that the Developers be addressing this. Mr. Topken questioned if additional traffic lights will be installed and the roadways widened in the West Mahwah area to accommodate trucks coming in from the Suffern area. Mr. Topken feels the plan put forth is insufficient and from what the Developer and Township Planner have said needs a lot more to be desired.

Mrs. Susan Chin of 186 Mabie Court said she has many concerns. She said she cannot understand the comment from the Traffic Engineer that people would not be shopping when they know they will have rush hour traffic. Mrs. Chin said there should be concern with all the high school drivers driving through the side streets which will increase traffic. Mrs. Chin asked the Developer how many feet the traffic light is off of Route 17 as that will back up traffic. Mrs. Chin asked how the Sharp tenants feel about this project and also asked who the tenants will be in the stores. Mr. DiGiovanni said there are significant retailers interested.

Ms. Christine Mauer of 653 Plum Terrace stated the Council has to study what the traffic impact will be and feels this proposal is like a “Trojan Horse.” She compared this with the Garden State Plaza which started out as an open-air plaza. Ms. Mauer feels it will be a traffic nightmare with Combined Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes August 22, 2007 Page 8 people coming in from all areas, especially since New Jersey has no tax on clothes. She stated there are all disadvantages and no advantages.

Mrs. Audrey Gold of 214 Miller Road distributed a paper to the Council with all her questions and concerns on it. Mrs. Gold fees the Developer’s statistics are generally slanted in their favor. Mr. Burgis stated that is why the Township has asked him to do his report. Mrs. Gold asked the Township Planner what Malls he compared this one to. Mrs. Gold said she spoke to the head of the Ambulance Corp. and they are stressed already. Mrs. Gold questioned office space that we had thought desirable and now there is more retail. Mrs. Gold does not feel this Development is a good idea as she feels malls have a life span of about 20 years. She feels this will increase traffic and crime in our area.

Mrs. Gold compared the proposed Development to Woodbury Commons who she said do not make a profit on their stores. Hermansen stated Woodbury is a tough comparison as they had a tax advantages in the beginning. Our taxes will be derived automatically.

Mrs. Gold asked if we would need a new sewage treatment plant. Alderisio said the cost would be the burden of the Developer but there is enough capacity. Mrs. Gold handed out a map that has an area where there is pollution. DaPuzzo said that has been taken care of. Mrs. Gold feels the character of our Township will be changed as people basically moved her because it was country. Mrs. Gold also feels kids will hang out at the mall and then there could be a crime issues.

Mr. John Spiech of 78 Island Road had concerns if the weigh station is put in as it is close to the propane site and truck stop traffic. He also said he has been in the Allentown, PA “Life Center” and it was only half filled after being opened for a year. Mr. Spiech said he has concerns if the stores are not filled we would not get all of our tax money.

Mrs. Audrey Gold of 214 Miller Road spoke again and mentioned there will be stress on the overpasses with all truck deliveries.

Mr. Peter Wendrychowicz of 8 Strong Street said he is opposed to this development as the Township is having trouble meeting their current needs. He concurred with Roth about school children and feels people coming into entry level job will have children. To accommodate the 2% number the school will have to re-district or begin building again. At this point, he said, he has not been shown that there will be no negative impact to our infrastructure on our schools. He said, “Growth is good but it has to be manageable” and more homework should be done. Mr. Wendrychowicz commented about gangs around the malls and feel they could be drawn to the Theater area. Combined Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes August 22, 2007 Page 9

Larson feels more people will be moving into the Township working in offices versus working in retail stores and the Developers can do that without the Township.

DiGiulio asked Mr. Burgis where the proposed plan fits into our Master Plan. Mr. Burgis said discussions are just beginning with the Planning Board and it will be part of the Master Plan.

On a motion by Roth, seconded by Hermansen, the meeting was closed to the public at 11:35PM. All in favor. Motion carried.

Hermansen agreed with Mr. Wendrychowicz that if the Council goes forward with the Ordinance it has to be iron clad to make sure it is done properly.

Mr. Jaworski answered they have attempted to draft an Ordinance that would be air tight with specific detail.

On a motion by DiGiulio, seconded by DaPuzzo, Administration, the Township Attorney and Township Planner shall formulate and work on a proposed Ordinance.

Kidd feels the traffic situation should be looked at through our Township Engineer’s eyes and has concerns the impact this development will have throughout our Township. Kidd said he would like to see a non-binding referendum to be placed on the November ballot so the voters can have their say.

Roth commented he has issues with this proposal and does not know this is revenue-positive or even revenue-neutral. Roth feels the Township is not protected by drafting an Ordinance that says the Certificate of Occupancy will be contingent on everything being completed. That Roth said, seems “late in the game” and the Developer at this time, can sell the property at a much higher value due to the rezoning. Roth feels the roadwork should be finished before the Developer’s Agreement is approved.

Roll call vote on above motion: Alderisio, yes; DaPuzzo, yes; Hermansen, yes; Kidd, no; Larson, no; Roth, no; DiGiulio, yes.

DiGiulio has concerns that there are still many questions problems to be worked out and questions to be answered. She asked Mr. Burgis his opinion on addressing Route 202. Mr. Burgis said he would do his own analysis and involve the Planning Department and the Township Engineer.

Kidd asked what the Ordinance will say and who will formulate it. DiGiulio said the Administrator, the Township Planner and the Attorney. Combined Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes August 22, 2007 Page 10

Larson said they will prepare a draft and make substantial changes if they have to and then if it is introduced it goes to the Planning Board. The Township Attorney stated it will be an initial working draft that will require a certain amount of dialog with the Council.

Hermansen suggested Mr. Burgis addressing concerns that Council has presented before drafting an Ordinance.

Kidd questioned again, the identity of the individuals drafting the ordinance and on what criteria. Mr. Burgis said he will base his information on this evening’s concerns and will meet with our Administrator, our Township Engineer and Township Attorney.

DiGiulio reminded the Council to meet tomorrow evening, August 23, 2007, at 7:30PM for a Council picture.

On a motion by Hermansen, seconded by Roth the meeting was adjourned at 11:50PM.

Respectfully submitted,

Katherine G. Coletta/RMC/CMC Municipal Clerk

Minutes prepared and typed by Deputy Municipal Clerk Jan Fox