Parks Paul
Q: [00:00] And I realize that -- wasn’t Obama going to --
where was he going this weekend?
M: Yeah, to --
M: He was (inaudible). Omaha.
Q: -- to -- yeah, Omaha. Normandy.
F: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm
A: Normandy! I was on that beach. Yeah, I was on Omaha,
(inaudible) and I went to four of the five camps
(inaudible).
Q: Let’s see. Where can we put this? Maybe rest it on here?
F: (inaudible) I’d like to you offer you something cold to
drink, but we only drink juice. And I have Diet Dr.
Pepper.
F: You know, can I have a Dr. Pepper? Could I just have a
little bit to see what it tastes like, please?
F: OK.
F: And then I may get a --
A: Now let me see what that is.
F: OK.
A: When President Johnson -- the Civil Rights Act in the
Congress, sort of lolling around. And President Johnson
1 invited 32 black folk and the so-called [01:00] leadership
types from across the country.
Q: Could I ask you what year this was?
A: Let’s see. It would have to be -- Kennedy died -- Kennedy
was killed in sixty-- ’63? Or six--
M: I think six--
A: And the Civil Rights Act was in the Congress in ’64. And
what he did, he invited a group of us, day’s debates a
whole bunch of folk down, a whole bunch of folks down to --
to the White House.
F: (whispered) I’ll have some water. (laughter)
A: And we went to the White House, and he said -- first, we
went in the Rose Garden, and he said he had invited us down
[02:00] because the Civil Rights Act was over lolling in
the Congress and not going anywhere. And he said to us
that, “I’ve invited you down here to support in the Civil
Rights Act.” And he says, “What I’m looking for from you
is that you will be prepared to support me as the President
of the United States in the coming election.” Now, he
says, “If you decide not to, then that has an impact on the
Civil Rights Act.” He says, “You go up to my room, you go
up to the quarters of the President, [03:00] you guys loll
around, go downstairs, and go in the pool, and you’re going
to be here -- we’ll expect you to be --”
2 F: He is in the White House swimming pool. (laughter) You
know? So they don’t even think about what they said. Oh!
A: He said -- and he says they don’t -- “I’m going to -- I’d
expect you to be here for the day. You’ll have lunch with
us, and...” And so Daisy Bates said, “I’m not a whore,
don’t...” And I said, “I’m a prostitute.” And she says,
“What does this mean?” I said, “Look, the Civil Rights Act
means an awful lot to my children and the rest of us as
black folk in America. I am tired of seeing signs saying
‘White only,’ I’m tired [04:00] of seeing -- having to ride
on the back of buses, I’m tired of being treated as a --”
And I said, “Not only that, I was in the United States
Army, and it’s a segregated army. And I can tell you, all
of you, that there is something very embarrassing about
fighting for this nation as a second-class citizen. And so
as far as I’m concerned, I’m ready to pass, because it is
so important, as I see it.” I says, “I will tell you, I
took my children, and we would have --”
Q: Can I just close this window because of the traffic, and
because of the construction noise?”
A: Oh yeah. I think that -- OK.
Q: Is that OK? I just can --
F: Is it the fan?
Q: No, it’s -- it’s just the --
3 M: I think there’s a little noises too, actually, but that’s -
- that’ll be fine for a little longer.
A: [05:00] Can you get it down?
Q: Mm-hmm.
F: I know, it’s hard.
Q: I have heavy hands, so I have to just be careful.
A: And I just had to (inaudible) -- I remember us going on a
white road trip in the service screening, and kind of tell
them then they (inaudible) feed us. We had to eat on the
ground behind the restaurant, (inaudible) President.
Q: (inaudible) hear that.
A: We had to eat on the ground behind -- behind the restaurant
while the other persons ate in the restaurant. I remember
Saturday we rode on the train when we were first going to
basic training. And [06:00] when we got to -- from
Indiana, when we got to Cincinnati, we had to move up to
the front of the train, and the white soldiers moved back.
So we were segregated at that point. And the train went up
to the hills of Kentucky on the way to Virginia. And at
some point, the MPs pulled the shades on the windows. And
I said, “Why are we pulling the shades?” He said, “You’ll
see in a moment.” And I said -- he says, “You’ll see in a
moment. It’s our orders.” And what he told us was -- when
I peeked out behind the sheet, there were all these white
4 guys on a platform. The train stopped for water, and these guys, white guys on the platform, had rifles and pistols, and all kinds of weapons. He said, “We’ve had many black folk, black soldiers, negro soldiers, killed by these guys.” [07:00] And I said, “Well, the army (inaudible)?”
And he says, “Not very much we can do about it. This is just the world we live in.” And so I said, “Now you ask me why I want to stand and support the Civil Rights Act? Sure do. Because I don’t want my children to go through what
I’ve gone through.” Now that picture is just one part of this. You -- you’re looking at -- first, you’re looking at being, and what’s -- just looking back here. She was a person who -- she was a part of the -- of the -- Fannie Lou
Hamer. That was Fannie Lou back then. And this is me.
And this [08:00] young man was pres-- was chairman of the -
- of -- of the -- every year in Massachusetts, they used to have one black guy appointed -- each time there was a governor elected, there was a black guy appointed to be the secretary to the governor’s council. And this was Jim
[Purdy?], who was secretary to the governor’s council.
Obviously, that’s President Johnson. And let’s see. Oh, this was [Roy A Boling?], who was [Senator Boling?]. It’s a very dear friend of mine, which is lost now, but --
5 Q: You’re standing in the back between -- so if we went from
left, there’s -- just to clarify. [09:00] Paul Parks --
A: Jim [Purdy?], President Johnson, [Roy A Boling?].
F: Senior.
A: Senior. And this fellow was -- I groomed him. He was
Johnson’s special guy. He came up from Texas. And I can’t
remember his name, but there was the one black guy who was
that -- it’s that black guy in his administration, in the
White House. And let’s see. And so the reason why -- this
was just the end, the Boston delegation. In each, there
were other delegations who also had pictures made.
Q: [10:00] OK. So about how many people were invited
altogether? So, like, a few from each state? Or a few
from certain states?
A: A few from certain states. We figured it had -- it had
clout, and could help him get elected. About 38 of us.
Q: And what were you involved in at this time?
A: I was -- well --
Q: What weren’t you involved in? (laughter)
A: I -- we had just elected the pre-- the Governor of
Massachusetts. Literally, had -- Governor Peabody. And
it’s the most amazing thing. Governor Peabody had lost
every election for about three or four terms. And Frank
[Poitras?] and I [11:00] had been campaign managers for
6 him. And we -- we just enjoyed working the election,
because we ne-- we figured he may never win. So we went
down, and we -- when the election was over, we’d go down,
and see the little bar downstairs from the hotel, laugh
about it. And this day, we were laughing about it, and
[Poitras?] had... (inaudible) [Poitras?] said, (laughter)
“Well, we lost another one.” And the guy came in and said,
“You know, we just won the election.” (laughter) And we
both said, “That’s not an asset.” (laughter) Just -- but
anyway, [12:00] he did win. And we became a part of this.
F: He wasn’t a bad governor, though.
A: No, he wasn’t a bad governor.
F: [Too much?] (inaudible) Windex.
M: So...
Q: Were you -- where were you working at the time?
A: Oh, I had a business that I owned. I was a partner in an
architectural firm.
Q: So were you involved, you know, with what local
organizations --
A: Oh, I -- it was the Chairman of the NAACP, the Education
Committee, at that point. Because Ruth Batson had moved
up, so -- to another position, and I was -- and we were
fighting Louise Day Hicks. And --
F: You want to take it out on the porch? [13:00]
7 M: I’m just mostly worried about the glare. There might be
more of a glare out there, actually.
Q: You know, sometimes if you take it in the -- in the shadow
area --
M: In a dark place. That’s true.
A: So that was --
F: Feel free.
M: Thank you.
A: And Louisa Hicks was quite an issue.
Q: Oh, you know what? This one’s not sealed. Some of them
are sealed with paper. Can we --
M: We don’t have a (inaudible) same glare.
Q: Mm-mm.
M: You don’t think so?
Q: Mm-mm.
A: Um? What are you saying?
Q: I was just saying to him that, you know, a lot of times
they’re sealed with paper, and you can’t get them out. So
if we could take it out.
F: Oh, the glare of the glass.
Q: Yeah, take the glass off it, and then we can photograph it
without the -- without the glass, and it’ll be fine.
M: Let me (inaudible).
8 Q: All right. Just try it in the shade. In the -- you know
what I’m saying.
A: OK.
Q: Anyway. He’ll work it out. (laughter)
A: [14:00] So -- and as a result of us being there, we all
took -- promised the president that we would support him
for president of the United States in the next election.
And within two weeks, the Civil Rights Act passed the
Congress.
Q: So was that in January of... Civil Rights Act, January of
1964?
A: I thought it was.
Q: Maybe it’s ’61, (inaudible) history as I should be. But
with the internet... (laughter) (overlapping dialogue;
inaudible) I’ll find out.
F: A lot of the things that I’ve lived through, I’m amazed
that I don’t remember [15:00] the dates. Do you remember
when the first man walked on the moon?
Q: Yes.
F: You do?
Q: It was my father’s birthday, and he --
F: Oh, OK. That’s not fair.
9 Q: That’s not fair. (laughter) But it was July 20th, 1969.
And I was very disappointed because I -- you know, this is
long before the movie came out, but --
END OF AUDIO FILE 1
A: [00:00] (inaudible)
Q: Record track one.
A: It was -- people are people. Just about everybody across
the nation who was known to be in the Civil Rights fight
was there.
Q: Let’s see. Civil Rights Act, Johnson. Nineteen sixty-
four.
A: Sixty-four? OK.
Q: Let’s see. July 2nd, 1964.
A: OK. I knew it was in the summertime, because (inaudible).
Q: OK. Let’s see, is this a picture of it here?
F: Oh, do you want some more soda or water? [01:00]
A: Oh, no thank you. It’s interesting that the only pictures
you will see of this is Martin King and all coming through
the -- to the signing. Those of us who played that role,
Johnson never betrayed us. And -- but we passed that law.
Q: I’m going to take this and actually make it a part of your
-- let’s see if I can do that. Yeah, we’ve interviewed a
few vets of World War II. And, you know, one of the
10 questions that the young -- I know you know Dr. Warren
works with young people -- often ask is, you know, how
[02:00] could you, you know -- how and why could you fight
for a country that, you know, treated you so badly? And as
one man said, “What, are you kidding? We didn’t have a
choice! It wasn’t like it was optional.”
A: No, it wasn’t optional. We were drafted. In fact, mine
was a very interesting -- I was at Purdue at the time. It
was my first year of Purdue. And school of civil
engineering, and I was pursuing my civil engineering
degree. And I lived with a lady, Miss Johnson, who had
taken me in, literally. And -- and, you know, colleges are
funny. You always got some guy, or some gal who knows all
the rules, and who can tell you -- is an authority on what
takes place. And this guy, [03:00] Clayton Yates, supposed
-- saw this is somebody he could -- he (inaudible) -- do
you know if you get -- if a letter goes in your mailbox and
you don’t take it out, you haven’t received it.” And all
of us, we figured Clayton knew what he was talking about.
And I had peeked in there, saw my draft notice, and left it
there. And once Sunday morning, three white males dressed
in black suits (laughter) with black ties knocked on the
front door of our house and asked for me. And I went to
see what they wanted, and they showed me their credentials
11 as members of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and that
I had not answered my draft notice. [04:00] And I was one
step away from going to Leavenworth. (laughter) And so I
said, “I didn’t know it was in there. I never saw it. I
didn’t take it out. I didn’t see it.” He said, “What are
you talking about?” And I told him what Mr. Yates said
there.
F: You did not!
A: Yes I did. I told him that he had -- he had told us -- I
was 18 years old. And he had told us that he -- that if
you didn’t take it out the mailbox, you didn’t -- hadn’t
received it. And the FBI said, “Son, whoever told you that
didn’t know what he was talking about. And you have 24
hours to register to -- before the draft board at Fort
Benjamin Harrison in Indianapolis. Now if you miss that,
you’re going to prison.” And I said, “OK, I’ll be down.”
And that’s how we got into the military. (laughter) Oh,
God. [05:00]
F: Well, now, that’s not the version that I heard.
A: Well...
F: Something about a letter going to the university?
A: Oh, no, that’s the -- that’s another story.
F: That’s the next step.
12 A: The next step. What happened was the university told us
that if you were in good standing with Purdue, that Purdue
would automatically see that you were -- you were given --
that you didn’t have to go into the service until you
finish your education. So -- and all -- you go, you get
your draft notice, you go over to see the dean, and the
dean will give you a letter showing the fact that you
didn’t have to be drafted. And I went over there -- once
in a while, that’s the last time that I can remember ever
getting anything [06:00] about me that I didn’t read first.
(laughter) So -- so I went over and got this letter, and
went down to the draft board, merrily saying, “Here’s my
letter.” And he said, “Son, you were drafted.” I said,
“What are you talking about?” He said, “You were drafted.
University has recommended you be drafted immediately.”
And I said, “This doesn’t make any sense.” He said, “This
is not our judgment, or even our call. But you were
drafted.” So -- and he says, “You have 21 days to clear up
all your affairs, and come down here to Fort Benjamin
Harrison as a recruit.” And I took off to see the dean,
and I said, “What is this?” He said, “You’re the guy
they’ve been trying to get black kids into [07:00] the
dormitories. You’re the guy that’s been caught trying to
13 eat at restaurants that you shouldn’t eat in. And what
we’re saying is --”
F: And you caused a riot (overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
A: Oh, that -- in the movie theater. (laughter) And -- but
Thurgood Marshall pulled that one on, he got (inaudible)
got me out. But anyway, the -- the theater thing was that
if you -- you come up to the -- to the window and you pay
your fare and go around the back of the theater and up the
back stairs and sit the balcony. All negroes did -- had to
do that (inaudible). And I refused to do it. (laughter)
Well, anyway...
F: All by himself. Wasn’t planned.
A: (laughter) Well, I made a mistake. I made a mistake that
day, [08:00] because I allowed a policeman to get behind me
and in front of me, and he hit me with is club, and knocked
me out in the gutter. But anyway, so I told the dean,
“I’ll be back.” He said, “Well, you know, people who go to
war don’t always come back.” And I said, “I’ll be back to
Purdue.” And one of my motivations, I remember some tight
spots I was in. I said, “Not yet. (laughter) going back
to class.” So Purdue only had -- we only had -- we had
nine guys at Purdue at the time, in civil engineering. A
couple of them were absolute brilliant. John [Blan?]
became the chief engineer of all -- [09:00] all new general
14 engineers for General Electric. There was (inaudible), who
made these honoraries, like Phi Beta Kappas, but they were
-- and it’s the same level in engineering. And he had
received that as a chemical engineer. So -- but -- so --
F: Tell them who lived in the -- in the dorm when you went
back to -- to Purdue. What was the -- you were in a
special dorm. Was it International House?
A: Oh yeah, International House. That was -- that was a place
for -- for foreign - you know, foreign --
F: Students, yeah.
A: Foreign students. It was made of up Jews and black folks.
(laughter) [10:00] (inaudible) Purdue, (inaudible) God, it
was terrible. There was Jews and black folks who lived in
the international house. And prior to that, when [Dig
Johnson?] or -- we had -- there were -- there were nine
guys, and only -- on that first class, only five of us ever
finished university. It just --
F: You going to tell them your story, your first day in, what
was it, chemistry class?
A: Oh. (laughter)
F: See, I hate Purdue. But he -- he’s an avid supporter.
A: No, what happened was that I -- I couldn’t find the -- the
room, the classroom. And I’m wandering around the halls
trying to find out. Now, my mama told me, “Don’t ever sit
15 [11:00] in the back of the room. Go down front.” So I get
into the chemistry class, which was a chemistry lecture,
which must have been about 40 people in there. And the
only place I could sit was up in the back. So I went over
in the back, and the professors called me down. He said,
“Paul Parks, come down.” And she had something called blue
vitriol, a chemical, that he put in my hand. He says, “Go
over there and dance a little jig for us when it starts to
burn.” And I didn’t go over and dance a little jig for
him. And he then told me that “You’re a smart aleck, and I
don’t want you in my class.” And I left chemistry class
and went to see the -- the one guy in the dean’s, always
assistant dean, who was a guy from Norway. [12:00] I don’t
know where he came from, but -- but he -- he took my issue
and got me back into chemistry.
Q: And so just to put this in context, you’ve been to war, and
now you’ve come back to college?
A: I went to war and came back to college. Yes.
Q: I just wanted to put that story in context in your --
A: Yeah, I came back to college. Came back to Purdue. And --
and went to see the dean. And the dean just said, “Oh my
God.” (laughter) And I had on my uniform, and he said,
“You’re back.” (laughter) And I said, “Thanks to you.”
16 Q: Is he the one that had given you the letter (overlapping
dialogue; inaudible)?
A: Oh yes. I went in to talk to him (inaudible). (laughter)
And I said, “Thanks to you, I’m back.” And he says,
[13:00] “Now, I hope that you have learned some things.
One of them I hope that you have learned, that coming to
Purdue for you is an educational experience, and not a
civil rights experience.” And I didn’t answer him. I just
looked at myself, “I’m back.” And I --
Q: So what would you credit your civil rights, you know, sort
of, backbone to?
A: My mom. My mom. My mom had fought, she fought for the
anti-lynch bill most of her life. And for to -- she -- I
remember sitting in those rooms with the shades pulled so
that I could see the light, because we were afraid the
policemen would shoot through the windows, because she was
a part of trying to get the anti-lynch bill passed.
Q: And where was this?
A: [14:00] This was in Indianapolis. But then I -- when I got
back to Purdue, I was able to lead the integration of the
movies. And I led the -- well, that was (inaudible) Ellis
and those kids came down. We got them into -- it was seven
girls in a room for -- that was usually for two. The seven
17 black girls in a room for two. And because they -- the
typical Purdue.
F: So -- so the integration of the movies was after you came
back from the war?
A: Yeah, after the --
F: Oh, OK. I get it.
A: Yeah, it was after I came back.
F: I thought that was part of the dean’s motivation
(overlapping dialogue; inaudible).
A: No, the dean -- no, no, no. I would never have won it
before the war.
F: And his mother did -- [15:00] got him an attorney, and the
attorney turned out to be Thurgood Marshall as a young
attorney.
A: We was the NAACP lawyer at the time.
Q: Interesting you say that, because I’m sure (inaudible) --
or she didn’t pick up on the microphone. I was just saying
could you tell us about the lawyer, because I don’t think
her comments picked up on the microphone.
A: Oh, yeah. The -- my mother -- Thurgood Marshall was in
Indianapolis, making a speech at the NAACP. And she
brought up him up there, and this -- sued [Lavietes?] and
the movies, and they integrated movies. He’d been
responsible or that. But, you know, [16:00] it’s hard to
18 explain to people, young people today, what the -- what the impact of being discriminated against meant. To walk... the walking blind. (inaudible) When I came out of Purdue, and we joined the State Highway Commission, because we had some guys, some people who sort of -- sort of took us in their hands. Black folk, black males. And we became -- we got jobs. And I got a job with the State Highway
Commission, along with two of us, joined -- [17:00] were given jobs with the State Highway Commission. And I remember every -- every time there was a black person who killed another black person, the paper would be on my desk.
“This is what you folk are like.” And when I finally left him to come out here to Boston, he came to me -- and the man was in tears. He said, “I -- I can’t lose you.”
(laughter) I said, “You lost me a long time ago.” He said,
“Well, you know, I apologize for that, but that’s what I thought about you folk.” “Well, that’s not my problem.”
And I go, “I’m leaving. [18:00] I’m going out to Boston for this position I got.” But -- and -- it was everywhere you went. If you -- if you decided that you wanted to have a vacation in this country as a black family, and you wanted to go across country, you couldn’t stop in a motel, you couldn’t stop in a hotel, you couldn’t stop anywhere. And so what happened is most black folk would travel like
19 you’re in a fraternity. You would let people know you were
coming, and you’d stay one night with them, as you process
across the country.”
Q: As you’re saying this, I’m just realizing why we always --
my parents, when we traveled, had a station wagon, and they
would outfit the back of the station wagon with -- my
mother would go [19:00] and buy foam to line the back of
the bed of the station wagon, and we’d always sleep in the
car.
A: Yeah. There wasn’t any place else you could stay as a
black person. Not a hotel room, unless you happened to go
to maybe Chicago, which had a black hotel. If you could
handle the rats that ran across the floor, you’d be all
right. And -- but Atlanta was a different city. Atlanta
had rich black people living in Atlanta. That’s where
Clayton Yates’s father, that’s how they made it. Now here
he is, I don’t have the money to go to college really,
except I got -- my mother was -- (inaudible) only $50 a
semester was what it cost me to go to Purdue. And what
happened was [20:00] in order to -- you couldn’t eat
anywhere, so I -- I remember I was living with a Mr.
(inaudible) -- or Mr. Walker’s house. And I wasn’t eating
very well. And this little -- this old lady stopped me one
day on the street and said, “You look like you aren’t
20 eating well.” And I said, “No, ma’am, I’m all right.” And
she said, “I don’t believe you.” And she get -- she told
me, “Come into my house, I want to talk to you.” And then
my mother, you know, I had to be polite to adults. There
was no way. So I went in, and she says -- and she says, “I
want to do you a favor.” And I said, “What?” This woman
doesn’t know -- (inaudible). She says, “I’m going to give
you a room, [21:00] and I’m going to give you breakfast.
You can take a lunch to Purdue for lunch, a sandwich, and
I’ll give you supper. And I’m going to charge you $5 a
month.” And that was grandma. And she -- it was -- I
don’t know why she ever did it. She know why it was. But
things that happened like that just saved your life. I was
at Purdue -- I mean, I was -- grew up in Indianapolis in a
segregated school system. And I mean segregated school
system. I never had a white person working in any school
building that I attended. And when I got -- in fact,
[22:00] they got -- back over there, I’ve had a picture
with all of our teachers.
F: Not that. (laughter)
A: On the first one, that’s the first NAACP (inaudible)
picture.
F: Oh. OK. I guess that’s (inaudible). That’s a school
picture.
21 A: That’s just from the eighth grade.
Q: Let’s see. Should I try to pick you out.
A: Let me see. You may give it a try if you like. (laughter)
I’m not sure.
Q: OK. Well, having been a photographer for 40 years, if I
can’t pick you out -- I’m usually pretty good at this.
Let’s see. Hmm. [23:00] Well, I don’t know. But I might
think that you are maybe the -- I get three choices. This
person sitting down here front in the middle?
A: That’s me over there. Third from the end.
Q: Third from the end. No, I wouldn’t have guessed that.
A: Yeah, that’s me. But I was a tough kid. My father was --
my father -- (inaudible) my father was a veteran, was a
disabled war veteran from World War I. But my father never
went any further than third grade in school. He was out of
-- out of Georgia, and they were still in [24:00] Georgia
because they were Seminoles. And it’s -- it was just --
and this is -- this is all -- these are all of -- all the
teachers in our high school, and every one of them had
their Master’s degree in order to be in high school.
Q: Crispus Attucks High School, 1932 faculty.
A: Yeah.
Q: And what school is this one?
22 A: That’s School 42, district high school -- district grade
school.
Q: OK.
A: And the -- I never saw a white person. I could live
forever without seeing one. And at 14, I was a gang
leader, and as tough as you’ve ever --
Q: This picture, you’re the only one in the front row that has
on knickers.
A: [25:00] That’s my mother. (laughter) You picked it up. I
was --
F: Excuse me. That was Sandy, and she and somebody from
Northeastern around (inaudible).
Q: Can [London?] take a picture of this picture?
A: Yeah.
Q: OK. And be sure to, like, really try and maybe do a raw.
M: OK.
Q: OK?
A: And the truth of the matter is is that my father is a
Native American. And kids used to kid us about my father
walking around in Native dress. And I used to get into
fights every day. My sisters would come and tell me, “He’s
the boy that so-and-so-and-so about me.” And -- and after
-- after a while, I became -- I had these -- I had 24 guys
who was with me. [26:00] And -- I shouldn’t. I don’t know
23 if he even had a choice. I wasn’t going to be just one of the crowd. And I ended up being (inaudible). But what happened was there’s a man on this picture here of Mr.
Parker, who was -- who was a head of the math department.
And he’s at Crispus Attucks High School. And one day, I was walking down the hall, and he says, “Come into my office.” And he says, “I’m tired of seeing you throw your life away.” And I got his coat (inaudible) throw over my shoulders, and I got my sunglasses going on. And I’m tough. And he said -- he started to talk to me. [27:00]
And I turned my back on him. Now, I got my hat on, you know, (inaudible). And he hit me behind the head, and [I went?] up against the blackboard, and came off. And I said to myself, one thing I’m not is stupid. This man is six- foot-two, and he was a former football player, and I’m not about to do anything about this one. And he said, “Now, here’s what I’m going to do. I want you to come by my house every day after school, and I’m going to give you a job, keeping -- I want you to (inaudible) the children. I want you to clean the yard. I want you to do all these things, OK? And I’ll pay you for it, and give you a little money so you can buy some clothes.” And he says, “And I want you to [28:00] -- you’re too good in math to throw it away.” And he picked me up, and caught me by the neck, and
24 he stayed with me all the way through -- until he died
several years ago. When I became secretary of education,
(inaudible) I sat in the front row with him. And he came
up to see me, and he really did. He -- the difference
between me being here and in jail was [Fred Parker?]. And
--
Q: And which one in this picture is he? Did he do a wide one?
A: That’s him right there.
Q: This one in the top?
A: Right.
Q: OK. So maybe we’ll be able to get this off a microfiche
somewhere. So if you could take the whole one, and Mr.
Parker is this one here between these two men.
A: Yeah, right.
Q: OK.
A: That’s him. [29:00] And, you know, many things happened
(inaudible) as a kid, you don’t know why. I could never
understand with that man, even when I (inaudible) looked
back at Purdue, he was one of the fellows who helped me
lead the issued -- integrated the housing for -- for -- for
black kids.
Q: I’m going to turn off the recorder for a second and then --
END OF AUDIO FILE
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