Andy Petranek: So Bart Yasso, welcome to the podcast is so great to have you on.

Bart Yasso: Oh, thank you. Andy I'm excited to be on your show.

Andy Petranek: , you know, I, I like to, I mean look in the running world and endurance world, you have a pretty well defined name. People know who Bart Yasso is, but not everybody on my podcast knows who Bart Yasso is. So we could you, could you tell us a little bit about your, like a reader's digest of like your, how you got to be who you are in the world of running?

Bart Yasso: Sure, yeah, no problem. Yeah, you know, I always say I say to myself, I wish I could have taken a selfie when I went for a run 42 years ago because I just went out to run one mile thinking I was going to change my life, getting shaped, use running to get in shape. And I never knew what was going to happen. But, you know, I fell in love with running and , I ended up working at runner's world magazine and I ended up running all over the world and doing all these crazy races. And then never thought any of this stuff would be possible to happen. And so I, you know, I was just a local run living in Pennsylvania. Runner's world gets relocated eastern Pennsylvania, purchased by a company called Rodale. It was a previously published in the bay area and , I started working on runner's world not long after that and , I retired after 31 years and literally had a dream job working at runner's world and , being engaged in a running community for 30, for 31 years or presenting runner's world was a dream.

Bart Yasso: So I was more of a triathlete prior to that. I mean, I always ran, did a lot of running racist, but I did a lot of tries and duathlons. And then once I got my job at runner's world and started traveling extensively, I kind of focus more on running just because it was easier to do. , but I still cross train, , you know, when I can. And , you know, I just loved the endurance space. , you know, I really did concentrate more on running because I worked at runner's world as I said, for 31 years, but endurance athletes and training, , that's really the space I'd lived in for many years.

Andy Petranek: Well, how, , take us back to that because I think there'll probably a lot of people that listen in that and I talked about this a lot. Starting anything is hard. I mean getting, getting yourself to start, whether it's a run or it's a changing your life, like you were describing when you went to that for that first one mile run, what were, were you in your life like in terms of your age and what you up to, where you out of shape, where you, you know,

Bart Yasso: was out of shape? And I was 22 years old. I thought smoking pot and drinking beer was a good lifestyle for, you know, I obviously didn't know them, but I was thinking of that because I thought, you know, I was going to be 18 forever and you know, just live carefree. I don't really want a job or you know, that kind of mindset. That's not really what I wanted to do, but it was a, what I was thinking I wanted to do when I was 16 or 17, but I was starting to get serious when I was 22. I wanted to have a good life and be fit and you know, have a good job and all that kind of stuff. So I had to make some changes. But, you know, , the thing running to, you know, , I, you know, I wore cut off jeans when I went in for that run that one mile ride, like to cut off jeans and the belt and like a budweiser tee shirt and you know, beat up pair of Keds and , you know, I did not look like a runner.

Andy Petranek: Let's see. Forty two years ago was around 19 six. No, seven

Bart Yasso: 70, 77 slash seven. I think it was December of [inaudible] 77 or January of [inaudible] 78 when I really started

Andy Petranek: running some errands. And, and , but why was it, was it just the easiest thing you could think of to do? Like you didn't have a bike, you didn't like it. Why running?

Bart Yasso: Yeah, I just, and I think you're right, the simplicity and the, I just thought, you know, all I need is a head out the door and I had a dog that I would walk every night. So I thought, okay, when I go walk the dog, I'm going to run dogs walking around this field. I run around this field kind of thing. And then, , that's when I really realized I liked the motion and like being out in nature and, and running just gave me this little piece for, you know, a part of the day where you just go out and sorted out what you really want to do. And then I started running every morning and that's when I got hooked. I used to see this, this guy run in the morning and a friend of mine from school and I used to see him go running every morning and I thought, God, this guy looks happy out there and that's what I want to do. And that's when I started these morning runs. And , you know, literally from there led me to running all of them over the world

Andy Petranek: that, that's amazing. You know what, you know, what I love about that story is your willingness to just go out there and do something. You know, I think very often, especially in today's world, people get paralyzed by thinking they need more information. Thinking may don't know the answer. They don't know how to do it. They, they've never done it before. And so they don't, they don't just go out and do it. And I think most of the problems that people experience could be solved if they just were willing to go out and run, you know, quote unquote run a mile.

Bart Yasso: Sure, now you're right. Andy, I agree and it, it, it, you know, something's got to get you going. Like I think a lot of people just need a little spark, somebody to tell them, no, you really couldn't be a runner. You're going to get a lot out of this. We're going to head out the door and I'll run with you. And that kind of thing. But it is hard to make change on your own because it's so easy to be complacent, you know, you're going along and doing what you think is the right thing to do or what you, what your, you know, what you're doing at the time and why make change but a change. One thing. Change is inevitable. So to think about it and change is good. I know we are creatures of habit and sometimes we do get complacent with the lifestyle or in. But I always think changes, changes. A good thing Andy Petranek: there. Go there, go, there comes a lawnmower, I hear it more, then it'll be quiet. You know, it's real, it's fantastic. That's awesome. You know, I'm waiting for the guy next door. There's a house that's in construction. I'm waiting for him to fire up the Jackhammer or something else. Breaking habits. No matter when I, when I press record it always happens. S. , so in, in those first, I don't know, few years or whenever you want, however long a period you want to think about, did you, did you run into difficulties or obstacles or things that were like, okay, maybe this isn't for me. Did you get injured, did you like.

Bart Yasso: No, I really didn't think sexually actually really easy for me. I just, , you know, I was a skinny guy to begin with. I had a runner's build already. I was six foot tall, weighed 145 pounds so I didn't have to drop any weight. In fact, I've put on a little weight after I started running because I turned a little fat in the muscle and I know that's usually not the case with people that start running, but that, that's what the case was for me. But it was more than just a, it just came natural to me and I enjoyed it so much that I just kept, you know, two mile run this, turn in the four mile, run a four mile runs, turn on the six mile runs and all of a sudden you're running 10 miles. And it just really came easy. And it wasn't a matter of, you know, I, I wasn't thinking about doing races. I literally was thinking about just enjoying the running. And then, , you know, I did that first race and men after I did that first race, I was hooked.

Andy Petranek: Was the first race the first race come soon after you started

Bart Yasso: now? It was about two years. I had two little over two years of consistent training under my belt and I was running a lot of miles and I really still wasn't thinking about, you know, being a runner as in doing races. I was just happy I was that fit and enjoying all the benefits from it. And then, , my brother George challenged me to a 10 k race because he thought I could be good unless a racing. So he challenged me to this race and I said, there's no way you can beat me in a 10 k race, but I said, I'll ratio and Dang, he beat me. He was training really hard without me knowing about it. He threw down this challenge and then, , and then I got serious after that because I said, okay, I now I realize I can do this, I want to do this.

Bart Yasso: So then I really started reading everything and studying everything and how, how I couldn't be a good runner, picked up a lot of books. And then I, , got lusher is a lot more serious after that. My brother never beat me again.

Andy Petranek: Really? Really. That was my next question.

Bart Yasso: After that, I would spot bottom five minutes to 10 k and , so yeah, but I mean he was, , he was, he really knew what he was doing. He knew if he pushed me that I would get into it. He knew I would be good at it and then I would stick with it. And then I didn't know that, but he knew that. I bet he didn't know though, that you'd make it a career for 40 for 40 some years. No, I don't think he knew that. He really knew that , that I would get a lot of enjoyment out of racing and he was spot on Andy Petranek: when, , so did you continue in the running realm or you said you got into triathlons? Was that soon thereafter?

Bart Yasso: 1982. I, , I remember in 81 there was a local triathlon that happened and I didn't take part in it, but I remember hearing about it in Pennsylvania. Oh, that's right. We had an old triathlon that dates back to. It's gone away now, but dates back to I think 1980 and we still have one that continues up in Wilkesboro, Pennsylvania. It's been around since 1980. Wow. So I remember hearing about this triathlon and I thought I got to do this and a man, it was fun. It was a, it was just different than doing a running race. It was fun to go fast on a bike and do all the transitions and all the craziness. And , and back then and 82, the, the organizational side of triathlons was not really figured out. There was no us.

Andy Petranek: Was there any USTA, was that not exist and exist?

Bart Yasso: And I think that's about right when it started. But I remember the first triathlon I did, we, you know, we slammed, we came out and we biked 30 miles in one direction and ended a big 10 mile loop. So when you finished the race, your bike was 30 miles away. So if you didn't have friends with you it was, it was pretty tough deal together. All your stuff like 30 miles away at a lake and then they figured out, wow, if we stage everything around the lake, you know, we don't have to drive around and gather all this stuff up after we finished their own. So it was interesting to the early days of triathlons.

Andy Petranek: It's funny, the things you think of after you do them in are like, well that didn't work so well,

Bart Yasso: but it was fun. You know what I remember most about triathlons, like 82, 83 is. There were a lot of runners that, that did, , but they didn't train as a triathlete, so literally they borrowed a bike from a neighbor and said, okay, I'll go out and bike and they're, you know, the first bike ride and was like two weeks before the race, you know, not enough air in their tires and all that kind of stuff. And , but they could run and as they're swim would consist of just at a local pool and swimming a couple of laps and I said, okay, I'll make this lamb and then we'll figure out how to cover the bike and then I know I can do the run. So it was funny to see that kind of kind of stuff. But I was , you know, I did cycle so I was , I was really trained for it.

Andy Petranek: Yeah, I remember, I'm certainly not in the early eighties, but in, in 1989 I did my first triathlon in San Clemente and, , it was a usta part of this series. And I very much the same. The story that you just told, I bought a bike. I was a marine, so I lived in San Clemente and I bought a bike about a month before, maybe two months before. , and I was right. I ran all the time I was running, I was running, I was, I was rocking. I was going out for these long hps with, with heavy weight on my back and a swimming. Forget about it. I didn't swim at all like I was a. I Mean I knew how to swim. I was a good, decent swimmer, but I didn't do it. I didn't practice, Bart Yasso: didn't train, I didn't do any swim training.

Andy Petranek: And the funny thing is, I'm trying to remember. I think we did it as a team. We did it. Yeah, I did it. I didn't do it all myself. I did it as a three person team and I think now this is crazy. I think I did the bike leg, but I wasn't, I wasn't a cyclist.

Bart Yasso: That's the best way to start.

Andy Petranek: Yeah, it's just weird now. I hadn't thought about that. That's very funny. That literally, as I was telling you the story, that's what I remember because I was not the fastest runner of our, by a little group of like four or five guys that I used to run with it. I wasn't the fastest runner. And then one of the other guys was a college swimmer, so he was a natural fit and we didn't know. We didn't really have a cyclist, so I became the. I wanted to do it. So I became the default default guy. That's so funny,

Bart Yasso: but that's the way to do it. That's on stuff like that happens. It makes for good stories and it makes it fun.

Andy Petranek: What was it about the competition that, that, , was it just you have a competitive nature inside that you know, between you and your brother or.

Bart Yasso: I wasn't that competitive nature and every I, you know, I just, I. What I loved about running when I really started doing those races was you go out and you do the hard work and you, you reap the benefits. The clock doesn't lie. Like you get to the finish line, whether it's a 10 k, half marathon marathon, the nbers will improve if you do the hard work. And it was just so obvious to me and that's what I loved about it. Like if I went out there and busting my butt for a couple months, I knew I could get faster. And , I really loved that feeling. And, and you know, there were no, there's no shortcuts and running and you know, , it wasn't a, it was such an individual sport. You have to do the hard work. And that's what, that's what I made me gravitate to it and stick it.

Andy Petranek: Yeah. How so speaking of training, there's so many different ways. I know you've written a book about it. There's so many different ways to train. Depending on the distance you're running a, you know, and the, you know how badly you want to be faster or feel good at the end of the race instead of feeling like crap at the end of the race, which I've done both by the way I'm would say in there. What kind of advice do you, what kind of advice do you give people around, around, , you know, being more organized around training as opposed to just going for a run and then, and then entering a race?

Bart Yasso: Yeah, I, I tell people like every run should have a purpose. It should have a meaning and sometimes meaning can be just, I want to be outside for 30 minutes and enjoy the air. It doesn't have to be so structured like every, every training run doesn't have to try to get you faster. But I believe in being consistent that you can train a long periods of time without an injury. Those are the people that get fast and do very well. So I, I tell people, you gotta find out the mileage your body can handle. You've got to build up slowly and that's the way you stay injury free. And then if you're consistent, you're going to have some great racing time. You can get faster for a long period of time and then at some point you do this stuff for 40 plus years that like I have and you age and become a in your mid sixties, you're going to start slowing down, but it's still a joy.

Bart Yasso: The one, the one thing that's never changed in my running is I never lost the passion. I never lost the desire and I never lost the joy to be out there. I mean, that's truly what it's all about. But yeah, I tell people, you got to figure it out kind of mileage you can handle and stay injury free and then you gotta you gotta figure it out what you want out of the sport. Do you want to run a lot of marathons and go all over the world? Or do you want to get faster and only run a few marathons? , you know, it's really what you want to get out of it is what is the best thing. You've got to figure out what you want to get out of it and then go out and accomplish it.

Andy Petranek: How do you know how much mileage, you know, like for a beginner, how do you know how much mileage is a enough to to to finish a half marathon or a 10 K or even a marathon without, you know, without crashing and burning, without feeling like crap at the end.

Bart Yasso: Yeah. I always tell people it's not so much the. It's really that long run on the weekend. You do the weekly mileage, you know if you can get into some shorter runs during the week, it's really beneficial. I know it gets hard and people with kids, family work, all this stuff that gets in the way, but if you just get some shorter runs during the week and then the weekend where it's happening, that's where you get that long run. Which is the cornerstone of endurance racing. Yeah. The long run is where it's at, so doing a half marathon. If you can go out, it'd been built up and eventually run 10, 11 miles comfortably. You're ready for that half marathon and then after you do the marathon, when you cross that finish line and you can look yourself in the eye and say, okay, I'm ready to do, I could turn around and go right back to where this restarted or cover that 13 again.

Bart Yasso: Then you are ready for the marathon. Then a marathon training, how to get your body up to 20, 22 miles that you finish a training run and feel comfortable. Then you're ready to tackle that marathon distance. But I. But I try to not to get people so wrapped up in mileage because then that's when I find people get injured. No, you do some runs during the week and then a really concentrate on those long runs on the weekend and then if you really want to get fast on those ones during the week you have to start doing hill repeats, speed work, tempo runs, that kind of stuff and then you will get a lot faster.

Andy Petranek: So if you're not too concerned with getting a lot faster, just getting in, you know, three to six mile runs during the week is, is, is fine, and then going out and doing your long run runner runs on on Saturday or Sunday, that would be fine.

Bart Yasso: You can get in two to three runs during the week that are three to five miles and then the weekend, that long run, one of the days, the long run than the other day. Whatever time you get out, just go out and get it a run on the weekend and you'll be, you know, that's all you need to do. Some people over overdo it. And , you know, I'd say it's better to be undertrained and injured and overtrained injured and overtrain. You never make it to the starting line. That's not what you want. Much better to be a little undertrained and healthy and uninjured and you'll have better time racing and you'll have an easier time training.

Andy Petranek: How much time does someone need to. I'm not a mean time in terms of hours during the week, but if somebody has never run a half marathon, how do you say they've run a five k before they've never run a half marathon? Should they? Should they give themselves three months before the half marathon is six months like

Bart Yasso: yeah, I always tell people, make sure you have a base going. You know, if you're thinking about the half marathon, at least three to four months and when I call a base, just continue in a weekly running mileage that you have under your belt that you then can follow a training program. If you're thinking about the marathon, I'm going to say six to nine months of consistent running where you have a base and then you could follow a training plan. So. So you had this thing. We're doing a half marathon. He got this three to four months space going where you're running and then you follow at least a 12 to 14 week training that peaks right for the. For the half marathon. You want to do the marathon after you had that good nine months of base. Are you using you, you got that underneath your belt. Then you can follow like a 16 week training program for a marathon. I think what happens with a lot of people is they just follow a training program that their body's not ready to handle because they don't have a base. So I always have people build that base first, get some continuous running that your body knows how to handle it and then follow the training program.

Andy Petranek: It's an interesting thing with running with running in the base that you're talking about. I mean I found when I was doing a lot of my adventure stuff that your body just has to. I mean I don't really even know what the adaptations are but, but just being on your feet and putting one foot in front of the other for, you know, like in the long races I did were ridiculous, you know, three or 400 miles. But the , , the, the, there's just, I dunno, I dunno, it's, it's a, it is a base and it's something to do with your joints and your tendons and your muscles and then how your body uses the signals and d, but it's so important and I think you're right, a lot of people, skip that step.

Bart Yasso: Yeah. A lot of people don't do the base first and they just see the training program and I jped on that and they're not able to handle it, right? Run an injury problems or they only do three quarters of what they really should have done. And that's when you just lead the problem. your body has to be ready for it. Like you said, Andy, when you were doing these long hauls, if you didn't go out and do like, you know, you can't do the race and training. You don't want to go out and run 26 miles and miles and train. You want to save it for the race, but you have to build their body up to a certain point that when you're out there on race day, your body's used to going this far so it can do it.

Andy Petranek: Now you've had some experience with some ultra long events. What's the longest event you've done on your feet?

Bart Yasso: Yeah, so I did Badwater back in the eighties was 146 miles. you know in July in death valley on from the lowest point in the western hemisphere, 282 feet below sea level, which is Badwater to the top of Mount Whitney. Fourteen thousand 500 feet, which is the highest peak in the contiguous 48 states.

Andy Petranek: It doesn't. It doesn't end the portal. It goes all the way to the summit?

Bart Yasso: In the old days. It was called the badwater 146 and the 146 mile mark was on top of Whitney. Yeah. Now they end that the Whitney Portal and that's where it became the bad water. 135. So in the old days you had an 11 mile climb up the mountain that once you reach Portal, which is a pretty serious climb to get up to the devil

Andy Petranek: when there was a trail you took, you took the standard, the standard trail, right?

Bart Yasso: Yep. Yeah. Well use trail. It's a, it's a common hike done by a lot of people because it is the highest mountain in the contiguous 48. So, , it's not, it's not that it's not, it's not technical. It is a nice trail to run, but it is a. When you hit it out of 135 miles, it's a, it's a, it's a chore to get up there as so to speak. And you got to, got to have a pack on your back with a lot of water. We didn't have all the, weren't hydration packs back in 89 when I did bad water and stuff today, which will make it a lot easier. I literally just had a backpack with a bunch of water bottles in it to have hydration on the way up and the way down.

Andy Petranek: You forget about the way down.

Bart Yasso: Yes, it is just a walk because the race is over, but yeah, your closest vehicle you can get is that the portal, so after you covered 146 miles, you're going to 11 mile walk back down to the trail

Andy Petranek: and forget it. If you're cramping or are, you know, you know the, you know the way people finish marathons, you know they need a medical time. You didn't have a medical tent at the top of Mount Whitney for God's sakes.

Bart Yasso: There was nothing. No, but the race was really smart. The race always had a, you know, they always said, look at, we know the extreme conditions to do this race. You had to have a crew, you had to have a, he doesn't need an Rv, but you have to have some kind of vehicle were you can store a lot of ice and water and food and all that kind of stuff and, and something that's going to survive that valley because it's even hard on cars going through death valley in the smertime. It's a crazy place in July. But man, it's such an interesting race to do.

Andy Petranek: I mean, I can't think of a part that would be easy, but what would we. Do you have a recollection of the hardest, like the crux for you?

Bart Yasso: Yeah. Once, once you hit past a 120 miles and you come in at a town of Lone Pine, California, you actually first place you see civilization. That was pretty cool and that made it feel easier. And , you know, just a pizza places, stuff like that. And you're like, ha ha ha, I'm really not going to die in the middle of the desert. There are, there are amenities when you get the lone pine, but you don't, I think you hit the main part of lone pine, like 125 miles, but about 120 miles five miles before that you can actually see lone pine. And there was little like see a gas station, stuff like that. There's little bit of civilization. Once you reach about 120 miles and then the heat is not as intense, it's still, I would say when you got the lone pine, if it's in the afternoon, when you run to lone pine, it's still over 100 degrees, but it's not that intensity that happens in the valley.. The valley floor is just in July when you got 17 hours a day light. The valley floor just heats up all day. The sand, the road, and then, you know, sunsets and not that long. The Sun's not down that long and it does cool off to about 100, five degrees and then that sun comes up and the temperature starts rising right away. And , it's pretty intense place in the smertime.

Andy Petranek: Was that the hardest part because, . Or was it harder though the elevation gain in the climb?

Bart Yasso: I think the hardest part or the section after you go to what's called a panamint springs, , in between, , so like miles 75 or 100. Man, I was hot in the afternoon going through that section and it just. And it's hard. It's hard on your body because you've covered that much distance already. So it's a combo. If we to started there, it wouldn't have, wouldn't feel so bad. So once you got 75 miles under your belt and you're still on 120 plus degree temperatures, it , you know, you're, you know, you're out there.

Andy Petranek: Do your, do your shoes fall apart because of the heat. I mean like I can imagine your shoes or like cooking or melting.

Bart Yasso: Yeah, the , you know, we try to run on when you're on the road, we try to run on the white line because that's the coolest [inaudible] on the road, like five degrees cooler. But the actual, you know, everyone said, you know, we, everyone had thermometers and testing all this heat and all the literature that I read says that, you know, if the ambient air is 123 degrees, which is a typical day in July and Death Valley, , the blacktop when the sun's out will heat up to about 150, 155 degrees. And then the sand just, you know, just go couple steps in off the road and that sand is about 160 degrees. It's pretty intense. So the, the, the most intense part is the warm wind coming off the sand and sandblast you guys are running down this road. It's pretty intense. you know, luckily when I did that I was pretty fit and a lot younger than I am now.

Bart Yasso: And doing this stuff 30 years ago it was a lot easier than trying to do it today. I could tell you that. But it's , you know, the race still goes on. They still cover, you know, like now only do the 135 miles. But it's still a hundred and 35 miles is a, it's a long day,

Andy Petranek: long day. How long did it take you?

Bart Yasso: You know, I don't remember it because we, , we had a stop at the trail head. I'm wait for daylight because the national park wouldn't let you. I did, we did file for permits beyond the mountain. That was one of the things we had to do. But you can hike the, you can't hike the trails at night. So I remember we were scheduled to get to the portals about a buy one in the morning and then we'd have to wait four hours.

Bart Yasso: So we actually took a break in lone pine at 125 mile mark and then started early in the morning and dark and then got to the trail head at sunrise so that we could just continue up the trail. And I say we because, , I had to crew people by wishnia and Jane's Cirrus. And without them, you know, although your crew, it's not going to happen. It's not going to be brutal. I mean, I know people do it Solo, but, , you know, I, I just don't, I just can't imagine doing it solo and you certainly couldn't do it as fast or I mean to have a crude and looking over you and make sure you've got fluids, make sure you're gonna have something to not only stay hydrated but fuel you. And the only, the only thing we had back then was the first energy bar, which was power bar.

Bart Yasso: , there was nothing, no glue or blocks or gels or anything like that. We just had good old power bar, which was awesome. I remember them through the nation of pretzels, fig newtons, power bars. , but then when we took that break in lone pine, they eat pizza on my God. That was unbelievable. That was brought me to life.

Andy Petranek: Like the best pizza you've ever had.

Bart Yasso: Odd. Definitely. Yeah. I know the place was called the pizza factory. It's been 29 years since I've been there, but I'll never forget that. It's. Yeah. And I'm sure it's not the poor make pizza or not the best pizza you've ever had, but it was the best pizza I ever had because of needing something to get them. My system is pretty cool.

Andy Petranek: Not all. You're not all your running has been that hardcore obviously.

Bart Yasso: Definitely not. Andy Petranek: What are some of the most fun, , like joyful experiences? Like in terms of either marathoning around the world or you know, like your top, your top few marathon experiences around the world?

Bart Yasso: Yeah. You know, some of that stuff for you when it happens, you don't think it's that great of an experience, but then you look back on it and think, wow, that was very special one that comes to mind when I did the Rome marathon, which was a back 2001. , so we're talking 17 years ago, , my mom was there, my older sister, emory and my mom rose Marie was, you know, they were, they were there and they were at spots along the course and my niece and , you know, I got, I stopped during the race. I really wasn't concerned about my time. I was just happy to be in Italy and doing, run the marathon. And I remember when my mom was at two spots, you know, I stopped and gave her a hug and she was looking at me like, what are you doing here in this race?

Bart Yasso: Keep, you know, she'd never. That never happened before, but I knew it was something significant. It's the first time my mom traveled out of the country and it was a big deal and she got to see a lot. She went to Paris on the way to Rome and it was truly a life changing experience for my mom and , she passed away 10 years ago, so when I look back, I had these pictures of the stuff, but now my mom at Trevi Fountain and the Spanish steps in Rome and those are priceless photos for me and pipe and priceless memories. Yeah. It had nothing to do with running, you know, and I didn't know it at the time that it would be one if not my most famous favorite running moment or, or certainly in the top 10, , you know, stopping, hugging my mom at these locations, which was, which was pretty cool.

Bart Yasso: But that's the kind of stuff that means the most to me. I, , I did the comrades marathon in South Africa, 56 mile old sro, the oldest old turn in the world, largest ultra in the world. And I was actually pretty good at that 50 mile range. I, , I didn't break six hours and 50 miles, but I was right there. I was. My best time was six hours on 11 seconds.

Andy Petranek: God, that is smoking and that is incredibly fast. Holy crap.

Bart Yasso: So I always wanted to do comrades, but I didn't want to go to comrades during apartheid. And then when apartheid was abolished, I entered comrades twice and both times I was sick at the time the race came around, I had, I struggled a lot with lyme disease. And so I never got to do the race. And when I, , when I wrote my book, My life on the run and I finished my book saying I only had one regret and running, I never did the comrades marathon.

Bart Yasso: When I actually physically wrote those words, that's when I said, okay, I gotta go do this race. Even if it kills me, I'm going to do this race. And I was not in good shape when I got over there, but I did do it in 2010. And what I remember most about comrades was, , you know, nothing to do with the running. I did finish it and didn't make it in time before they closed the finish line down. , but what I remember the most was, , I sponsored two South African children through world vision and I got to meet my South African sponsored children, which was just the coolest thing. And then they were out on the course cheering for me, so I got to stop and give him a hug. Must be given people a hug them mean a lot to you along the way.

Bart Yasso: , so, you know, at the time they were a seven years old and nine years old. So the, ayonda and sanagoogoo are their names and I got the, you know, World Vision. I had them out on the course. They cheering for my stuff and give them a big hug and , that, you know, that stuff you can't script that kind of stuff. It just, it happens. It's awesome. And then I got to the finish line. I was so happy to finish and then, , because I had press credentials, they kinda scooted me around and got got me right on the finish line. And then this tall at South African guy comes up to me and congratulates me, puts his arm around me, gives me a hug, and I'm like, God, this is. I looked at him and I really thought it was this a runner named Willie Mtolo, and I said, you Willie Mtolo, right?

Bart Yasso: And he said yeah, and he gave me a kiss on the cheek. And unlike this guy had no clue that he was one of my biggest running heroes. He was a, he won the New York City marathon in the early nineties. And he did it, you know, when training under apartheid and being in South Africa at that time, for him to be that successful growing up, you know, , where he wasn't encouraged to be a runner or not supportive to be a runner. A pretty incredible feat to then go on and win the New York City marathon at a time when South Africa was not allowed to participate in the Olympics, do to apartheid. So you know, you, you wouldn't think someone could be that good under those kind of conditions. But he was good enough to win New York City, so he was always one of my running heroes and he had no clue how much of a hero he was to me.

Bart Yasso: And I'm standing there out of all the people in South Africa, Willie Mtolo congratulates me. I was a wow. I was blown away, brought, brought me to tears when I, when he, when he did look me in the eye and say yes, I'm Willie Mtolo was, you know, I was sure it was him, but then I thought maybe I'm delirious after running 56 miles. And again, being meeting you're running heroes, not knowing you're running hero would be there. It was, it was pretty special. Yeah. That sounds amazing. But those memories are what, you know, when I looked back, , when I retired from runner's world, when I cleaned out my office and I had all this stuff to gather, it's memories like that, that, that mean the most to me. I was fortunate enough to win races and , you know, fun and stuff. But it, it in the big picture.

Bart Yasso: It didn't mean anything to me. It was the stuff that was life altering and stuff that I connected with people that I never thought possible. That's the stuff that meant the most to me..

Andy Petranek: How did you pick what events and what places to go to and what race is to enter? Like what was your, did you have a strategy or was it just looked at a map and just pick the place? Bart Yasso: I love that question. You know, it's , a lot of them came from invites. The races would invite me to do their races. Some came from places I always wanted to visit and I'd go race and then a lot of them were runners rolled a work assignments had to go to the race. So it was a really combo of, of all that stuff. And , you know, there certainly, I don't know the breakdown, but there was certainly a fair amount of races that. I always wanted to go to this location and I wasn't going to go with without doing a race when I went to these locations, whether it was, you know, Istanbul or you know, east Africa. , as I always say, if you don't sign a waiver, it's not really a vacation. That was my stuck to them. Still stick to that rule. There's got to be a waiver involved, you've got to sign, sign some waiver and then you know, you're going somewhere you always wanted to go and then you're doing a race while you're there.

Andy Petranek: It's so funny because I used to tell people a lot that , my favorite way to explore a new city was to just lace up my running shoes. And this was before iphones. , I would just go for a run and a very often it would result in me being lost and , you know, like having to Frickin scavenger hunt my way back and a country that didn't speak my language or you know, like I learned that the hard way that I should probably go with the address scribbled down on a scrap piece of paper before I left. Yeah. But so much fun.

Bart Yasso: I remember doing a running Cairo, Egypt and I, I ran so far and I was not, I was completely lost and, and I'm pretty good with direction, but I got way off base and already covered at that point, like 30 miles trying to get back. And I said, okay, I got to get in the subway and get back to where I'm, I did have a little bit of money with me, but I got into the subway and then everything was an Arabic and I thought, man, I'm never going to get home. So I just stayed on that, on that train or subway till a lot of people got out. And then I thought, okay, I got them being like a busy area. And I got out and Bam, I was really close to my hotel, but I really wasn't. There was a little bit of luck involved. But, but that, what better way to explore. I mean, , you know, it doesn't make it a lot easier today with today's technology, you know, and I, I did to a solo bike rides across the United States, , west to east. So basically Seattle in New York City.

Andy Petranek: Were you doing like you weren't doing RAAM or anything like that?

Bart Yasso: No, no. I was doing it solo, just on my own. It was literally my vacation and , you know, I, I did in 1992 and 1994.

Andy Petranek: Wait - this is crazy. I rode my bike across the country in 1992 also.

Bart Yasso: Yeah, I was August first to August 20th, 1992. Basically a Everett Washington to Asbury Park, New Jersey.

Andy Petranek: Wow. We were, we went, I went with two other marines. I just gotten out of the Marine Corps and we went from July first. Yeah, maybe June 28th until July 22nd and we went from Camp Pendleton to Washington dc with a, with a couple excursions outside of that we, we, we drove up to , we drove due north from St Louis to , Minneapolis because we, a family, one of the guy's family was up there and then we resumed from Minneapolis and so we came through Wisconsin and then down through Chicago and then down across.

Bart Yasso: Okay. Yeah. That yeah, I went through Wisconsin and I was south of Minneapolis but we had them down similar roads, but that's what a way to see the country in a way that, you know, it's the most incredible thing that just cruise along our country like 15, 16 miles an hour and see all the change geographically. All the people change all the different ways people live. I'm telling you, this country is built up of these little towns and you really get that feel when you're on a bike. But I remember when I saw I did it in 1982 and I said, you know, the next day I rode my bike to work and everyone I worked out I wouldn't get on my bike to work, but I was committed on my bike. So of course I did. And they're like, oh, we thought you'd be sick of your bike.

Bart Yasso: And I told everyone in that meeting I was in when I get on the work, we had a big meeting every Monday and I said, you know, if I can do it again, I would do it right now. But a lot of vacation days, so I'm here at work, so that's why I did it in 94. And what I did in 94, I did the same route from a Everett Washington to Asbury Park, New Jersey. But this time through, if I took a higher road, like an alternate road 16 a versus 16, I just kind of mixed it up a little bit and got a different feel but basically covered the same, the same course, same route. And then I did a little bit faster. I did an 18 days a second time and then , but you know, after I finished in 94, of course, this thing called the Internet was, was coming to life and , and I always, you know, and of course with the Internet became and then the iphone and the smartphones came out, I, we said, God, wouldn't it be fun to do that bike ride again and have all this technology.

Bart Yasso: But you know, that the technology actually as much fun as it would be, it actually scares me today. So it's interesting that what I think would, would have been helpful is actually would be dangerous because I hadn't, I never felt the distracted driver thing when I was out there on those miles. So yeah, I honestly, I hadn't more people pull over and try to help me than do anything else. People offer me money, people offer me food and I'm like, no, I'm fine. I got money. I, you know, I always had that. I did all my hotels in advance so I always had. That was always my carrot. I had to get to this town because there was a pet hotel waiting for me.

Andy Petranek: That was my next question is, were you doing with panniers and camping or where you had a little more civilized?

Bart Yasso: No, I have two panniers on my bike. I took packs on my bike and , I stayed in a hotel every night. It was a joy to sleep in a bed and I get a nice meal and then, you know, try to get six, seven hours of solid sleep and then get up and get some breakfast and head out on the next day. Andy Petranek: Well, and if you did it in 18 days, you were, , you were motoring. I mean you were doing 100. That's like an average of 100 - 130 miles a day.

Bart Yasso: No, I think it's more like 160 a day.

Andy Petranek: Oh gosh. Sheesh!

Bart Yasso: Yeah, 165. I think the first time I averaged about 155 and the second time 165. Yeah, you're out there. , but you know, you get in. What I used to do is get on my bike and concentrate on getting in over 100 miles and then I would stop for a good lunch. And then I knew I had, you know, the rest of the day to get to my hotel before dark. So I wasn't pressed for time and I was never stressed out. I knew I could make it to the next location and ,

Andy Petranek: so that distance was enjoyable for you?

Bart Yasso: It was enjoyable. Fun. Oh my God, I was so much fun. I got some crazy stories out of doing that. Right? It was crazy. I just a, I remember going through this town in Washington and eastern Washington called Davenport and I stopped at this gas station, so it was the first time through in 92.

Bart Yasso: I stopped with this gas station, get some gatorade and stuff and I remember this young guy said, I was just put gatorade in my bowels and I was just about to head off and the guy goes, what are you gonna run? I said, I'm cycling across the United States, and he thought it was really cool and then I said, what's it like to live in Davenport, Iowa? And he said her a diamond for Washington. He said, I hate this place. It's hot in the smer. It's cold in the winter. I hate them for it. And I said, well, you don't have to live here. And he said, ah, I hate this place. So 94, I'm coming along and I'm on that same road route to Davenport. And I remembered that kid that got the gas station. So I come along and I go, that's the gas station. So I, I go in and get some gatorade and sure enough that person hit like 18, 19 years old to finally 17.

Bart Yasso: First I went through and now he's now he's 19. So of course he's not going to remember me. I was like, I, I baited him a little bit. I said, wow, this Davenport looks like a really nice place. I'm thinking about maybe I should move here. I live on the east coast. This kid looks at me, is the worst place in the world. So funny he was going crazy. I laughed so hard. So then I had to come clean and tell them, but I was here two years ago and you told me you hated the place then and you still hate it. You've got to go somewhere. Stuff like that just cracks me up and , meeting people in small towns in Wyoming, South Dakota, they never left their state. They'd never been anywhere. It's amazing to me and I just, it was just something I wasn't used to and you know, but you really see these little towns and what really is what keeps our country going.

Bart Yasso: It's, , it's pretty cool in some ways. And then the cross on the mountain ranges and you know, I remember I'm in Wyoming, everyone was a cowboy. Everyone had a cowboy hat, cowboy boots, Spurs. They were cowboys like real cowboys. You cross into South Dakota, there's no river. It's just a, you know, you're just cruising along. The sign says, welcome to South Dakota. Everyone was native American. I was literally like, there was a line there. You don't see it, you don't know it, but it was like, okay, you're a cowboy. You, you migrate this way in the Wyoming. Okay, you're native American, you stay in South Dakota. It was so obvious. , you know, and I could see if when you cross a big river where we're states are separated by the Mississippi, you could see change because there's a big river there. But when there's nothing to obstruct it, it's, it was really, really something I observed. And you did it, you know, you, you really pick up on things like that when you're cruising along at 15 miles an hour versus 60 miles an hour in a car.

Andy Petranek: Yeah. I always thought that Kansas was flat and , we got to Kansas and we were riding on these back highways with trucks with like two lane highways with 18 wheel trucks going by and it is hardly flat. I mean it is, it's, it's flat ish. But yeah, the, the hills roll and they're long and you can't see where they end and you feel like you're going flat but you're not, you're only going like 12 miles an hour and you're like, why can't I ride faster? You can't figure out what's wrong. I love that. And it was a, it was a horror. Was that, that was one of the toughest parts of the ride actually. It was funny.

Bart Yasso: Yep. Yeah. I will say the toughest part for me both times was western Pennsylvania and West Virginia and go up these hills between, from western Pennsylvania into central Pennsylvania. My God, these hills are lists. Yeah.

Andy Petranek: They never entered. Then they go straight up and straight down and they're not that big and God, you go over one and you see the next one and you go to the next. You think I couldn't be anymore. And then there's another one and

Bart Yasso: yeah. Oh, you know, you brush the continental divide across the big Horn mountains, the, you know, all that stuff. I had clients that were 14, 15 miles long. Yeah. But it's a nice gradient. You just keep climbing and you just get into gear and it's just easy. Yep. Pennsylvania is just the steep hills that are just, you can't get in a groove and then you get a break where you get to the fan and then right away you're going up the next day. It is, it is relentless in western Pennsylvania.

Andy Petranek: Yeah. Same experience. Same experience. So that was definitely the. I wouldn't say Kansas was the hardest physically, mentally the hardest. But the, I don't know actually that a western Pennsylvania had the exact identical experience because we came through western Pennsylvania and then into Maryland and it continued in Maryland. Yeah.

Bart Yasso: Continues in that part of Maryland. No doubt about it. Yeah. That's so interesting. And we had the same experience Andy Petranek: at the same time. I mean within a month of basically as one another.

Bart Yasso: Wow. I saw another cyclists in cody, Wyoming. And when I was on the trip and he was so excited to see someone else that was going cross country and we were at the same hotel and we're going to talk all I. and then I thought this is really cool and you know, I said, oh, I just left on front, you know, I said I left Friday and here I am. And he said, I left Friday, but I never saw you. And we were comparing roads. We're on towns. We went through following basically the same route and so I never saw you. And he, he's like. And then I said, well I, you know, I went from a Everett, spent the first night one action and the second night spokane, and the third night in Thompson Falls, Montana. He's like, a, you mean you just left?

Bart Yasso: You just left last Friday? I said, yeah. He goes, oh no, no. I left Friday two weeks ago after he realized that I was doing twice as much as he was. He didn't even want to talk to me. He said, there's no you could do that kind of mileage because he was worn out. He looked pretty rough and I look pretty fresh and I was literally doing twice the mileage he was, but I said, you know, hey, we're out here doing what you can do. Yeah, I was, I was pretty trained to ride cross country, so I was, I was pretty fit at the time.

Andy Petranek: Now do you use technology? I know you mentioned, , a tech, but a minute ago, , do you use technology now? Like heart rate monitors? Do you track your workouts with any sort of Strava or.

Bart Yasso: I use stuff. Sometimes I'll track stuff, I'll use my phone. I always have my phone with me. I will never run or ride without my phone ever. I really like it as a safety mechanism and it's not all, it's not all about me. I mean you can save someone's life when you're out there. If something happens, you can call 911 and literally save someone's life. So I always have my phone, but I don't use a lot of technology. I love the simplicity of running and when I go home from my bike rides, you know, I know how far I'm going, how long I'm out there, I don't need something to tell me what I'm doing. So I kinda think a lot of runners and cyclists to get so caught up in the electronics that they take some of the funnel we're from what we really like to do.

Bart Yasso: But I do love that this technology's out there Strava as a cool thing that I just think it's awesome. And, and heart rate monitoring training is , you know, I really think it helps a lot of people, but I've always been in tune with my breathing and stuff. So I just like, I just like being out there and you know, I know people, you know, people might run with, we're going to do this eight mile course, which we've done a bunch of times. We know at takes miles, but everyone has to start up a device and then, you know, the devices don't work that and gps, they don't work precisely. They're not 100 percent accurate. So one time, you know, do this eight mile course and one time you finished and I, you know, it's seven point eight and then the next time it's eight point two. Bart Yasso: What I, what really, , what, what I can't, I'm amazed by is like people and they finished under their watch clicks and it's eight miles. They stopped running even though the car is like two tenths of a mile down the road. They stopped. Oh, we hit a miles and then the next time we do that exact same loop, run the same location and now they get back and it's only seven point eight. So you just run around in circles in the parking lot to the watch.

Andy Petranek: That's funny. Your missing the point.

Bart Yasso: You guys are really happy. We're out here. Your body, your heart really doesn't know all. He only won seven point nine or whatever. It's not that technical. Sometimes we'd get crazy about the technology, I believe in using it to your benefit using it to your safety, but not letting it control your, your running or cycling. Because , sometimes the beauty of what we do is the simplicity of it.

Andy Petranek: Absolutely. I couldn't agree more and I, and I think, , you know, if you're really good with your, with your technical use of, of , electronics, great. If it's a supplement to what you're doing, great and if it adds to your experience and you get to go back and track what you're doing, great, but if it, if it changes your experience or changes the purity of why you're out doing what you're doing, then it's not. I don't think it serves.

Bart Yasso: Yeah. But like doing some of your adventure races and having a phone could save your life.

Andy Petranek: Yeah, we didn't have them. I mean back in the nineties before that stuff

Bart Yasso: and they'd been out there today and , you know, orienteering was a big part of what you did. And obviously with the phone it makes a big. difference

Andy Petranek: I don't know how they do that, how they manage that now because I know that they still, I think for most of the big adventure races, they still require people to navigate and orienteer and , but I don't know how they manage, you know,

Bart Yasso: that was one of the skillsets you needed to do. Yeah,

Andy Petranek: I was in that. I was the team navigator too, so I, I love that. That was one of the most fun parts for me. It was, you didn't know the course you had to, you had to be good at plotting points on a map and reading, reading and Topo map and, and finding your way. It was really awesome.

Bart Yasso: Yeah. Yeah, that's what I loved about my first bike ride across the US. Like I, I wasn't areas I've never been before and you know, I could tell my map, I knew I was going to do a climb, but you know, you can get to the climb and it really isn't really 17 miles and then you get to the top of it later on. and you go. Yeah. You know what it really is. Seventeen miles long climb to the top of the big horns or you know, it's pretty awesome, but never seeing it before. I thought it would made it very special. Yeah.

Andy Petranek: Tell me about the Yasso 800.

Bart Yasso: Oh my God. Having a workout named after you. I got, I got to think Amby Burfoot who was the editor of runner's world for many years and my boss for many years. And a champion, a winner of the Boston marathon in 1968.

Bart Yasso: So when Amby found out I did this workout where you do 10, 800 meter repeats with the 400 meter recovery and you do it. , so if you're trying to run, you know, as you're trying to run a three hour marathon, you do the Eight hundred meter repeats in three minutes. So the 800 meter repeat equals your marathon time. Of course the 800 meter repeat is in minutes and seconds versus your marathon time and hours and minutes. But the correlation is there. So you want to run a marathon, you do your 800 meter repeats in two minutes and 40 seconds or so. Amby found out that it did this work out and he just thought it was the great thing for the readers of runner's world. That'll be real simple for them to understand. , you know, he thought it was great and of course he named him after me cause it's like finding a star.

Bart Yasso: He said you're like an astrologist you found this out and that's not based on science. So he named him after me without me knowing it. And , I took off from there and then I thought, oh my God, this is in the magazine back in 1993. I thought, okay, people will read this in a little, talk about the Yasso 800's for a month. And then a couple people do them and then we'll never hear about them again. And then the internet came along And then people started doing them all over the world. And I hear about, I hear from people all the time, whether it's twitter, facebook, instagram, , you know, it's amazing to me how many people do, yes, so $800 and a lot of people have success with it, so it's kind of fun. But it was something, you know, and be named.

Bart Yasso: And he said, I had an unusual last name. He'd never heard my last name before, so he said it's going to stick. It's Kinda like a Yahoo, like, you know, it's going to really work. And I said, ah, I, I, you know, I thought it was a little crazy, but he's a really smart guy. And , you know, it shows he was really smart because it really did stick. And , he, everything, he said, well, what's going to happen did happen. But I was not convinced when we're in these meetings talking about it. But, you know, , in hindsight it was pretty funny. But again, I, you know, in the early, when he talked to me about why I did them and then he did the story. So I wasn't, I knew we were going to do this story and I did a photo shoot, but I really didn't know all the ins and outs to. It was all over. But then he explained to me call them. Yes. So He'd hundreds. He thought it's really going to stick.

Andy Petranek: Did you, how did you stble across that correlation? Because I was just doing some quick calculations in my head based on my marathons. You know, I've done a marathon, I've done a 3:30 marathon, never faster than I think 3:20 was my fastest, but it makes a lot of sense to me. You know, like if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna run a 4:30, that means four minutes and 30 second 800. Okay. I can, I can, I can see that correlation based on and how fast, how, what kind of shape I'm in to run a 4:30 marathon. ,

Bart Yasso: yeah. So for me it was, I liked that workout 10 times, 800. I was always told by the first people that I started running with, if you go to the track, you've got to warm up three miles. When you get to the hard stuff, you've got to do five miles worth of hard stuff five times a mile, 10 times 800, 20 times 400, a combination of 400, 800, whatever it is. The hard stuff has to equal five miles. So I followed the rules of what, you know, what the people told me to do. So I like that 10 times 800, 800 just felt like it was long enough that you've got endurance but short enough where you got some speed. So I just, , I liked that workout. I do that a couple times and write down, okay. I averaged 2:40 and then I would run a 2:40 marathon and that's when I, that's when I noticed the correlation is like wow, I average these 800, it's in this time and that's the time I ran. And I checked like the first four or five marathons and that correlation really worked. So that's what I told Amby. And Amby was convinced that it would work for a high percentage of runners will readers and that's why he won with the story. And it's pretty funny story when I came out, you know, they painted me like I was a mathematician or a Russian scientist and all this,

Andy Petranek: you're a modern day Pythagoras.

Bart Yasso: Yeah. I found this formula, you know, the holy grail of running. You know, it was really meant as just a fun story and, but he also said this will really work for a lot of people. So it was done in a fun way. But also, you know, we're very clear, this is not based on science and , but it works for a lot of people and people still. I still hear about it to this day.

Andy Petranek: Yeah, I mean, I, I'm on an article right now that was updated April 19th of 2018 and it's how to do Yasso 800's

Bart Yasso: hysterical.

Andy Petranek: It's pretty cool

Bart Yasso: I didn't know that, that would stick around.

Andy Petranek: It's pretty cool. And I, and I, I liked that correlation and it's very simple. Like I'm not really running these days right now. Anyway. , but it, it, it almost sounds inspiring to me, like, ah, I'd like to actually go out and do that again. It's been a long time.

Bart Yasso: Yeah, me too. Actually. I see the same thing. People think I'm always on the track on doing Yasso 800's and I haven't been on the track in quite a while. but it's more just because of physical problems I have from my lyme disease stuff. If I could physically get out there, I would, I love running on a track, but I spend most of my time on the trails. A trails are a little bit easier on my legs and I like running on the trail.

Andy Petranek: The only thing I don't like about the track is the correlation in my mind to the difficulty of the workouts. They're always hard, they're always fast or all and they always suck

Bart Yasso: literally when you step on the track. There's no way around that. That's my totally to deal with some pain.

Andy Petranek: Well, , so, you know, I'm looking at our time and we're, we're about, we're about finished. What, , what's next for you now? What were you

Bart Yasso: like nine months into my retirement, I still stay connected with the running community through social media. I still go to a few events and do race announcing and key. I'm a keynote speaker at some events and , that's going to continue to do that just because I loved the running community. , but you know, I'm not going to travel extensively. I really cut back on my travel. So when I say I'll go to some events, , you know, in the old day is I would be at 45, the 40 to 45 events a year and now it's more, probably like a, probably 15 to 20 and then there'll be a, you know, a lot less traveling during the week. I'm not a runner's world so I'd just come home, kick back a little bit and relax. It's a, it's a real lifestyle. Change the word retirement. , it's a joy.

Bart Yasso: Go out and walk nine holes of golf every once in awhile and , you know, it's kind of fun.

Andy Petranek: It's an adjustment too

Bart Yasso: it is an adjustment, but just not being under the pressure to be in the office and you know, so it's a nice deal. Do you, do you look for Kinda defining purpose now in the like is that a hard thing given, given where you are and like identifying what, what is the purpose now? You know, what? I really, when I left runner's world really, like those last couple of weeks when I was in my office and really thought about, you know, just doing all these interviews on retirement or what I was going to do on, you know, someone said what, what in print are you going to leave? And I said, well, you know, I've always heard from people that I inspire them to do running and to, you know, take their running to another level and I certainly want to keep, keep that going.

Bart Yasso: But when I looked at all the stuff that I collected in my office, the thing that meant the most to me was the people had I inspired that. I never really knew. I connected with this, a young kid from upstate New York who had a mental disability and his brain never developed past a, like a five year old. He had a five year old Iq, but he could run. And this kid, when he did races, you know, he felt like he was like everyone else. He just ran. I think it was a good runner. And , you know, now he's in his mid thirties, but he always used to send me these letters and you know, it was really hard for him to write a letter, but as parents would help him and he always called me his running buddy and I saved all his letters.

Bart Yasso: So they had, they sent me and , you know, I connected with this autistic kid and who's 16 and, you know, I would do public speaking a lot at events his mom would go to and he would be with his mom and I never knew. I really connected with this kid. And then his mom sent me a email one day and said, this is what my son told me. And , and my son doesn't talk a lot. He really lives in a nonverbal autistic world, but this kid said he wanted to be Bart Yasso because everyone hangs out with Bart Yasso on, , you know, I wish paint. He said he wished Bart Yasso was my age. We'd hang out with me and all this kind of stuff, but was like, man, this kid blew me away. What he said to his mom, and you know, when you connect with someone you don't even know you connect with and when it is someone who's autistic or has a mental disability, I mean that means a lot more than just connecting with someone who has the faculties to do a lot of things.

Bart Yasso: So that's the stuff that really meant the most to me. So when I, my last interviews I was doing and as I was, people were sending me congratulations. I really wanted people to realize how much they inspire me and how much they inspire other people. And I said, believe me, you're inspiring people that you've never met and you may never meet and you have no clue how many people you inspired. But trust me, you inspire a lot of people. People would always say, but you know, I just finished in the back of the pack or the middle of. I said, there is no such thing as the pack. You are out there doing what you're doing. Trust me, you're inspiring people because I had no clue that I was inspiring these, these young kids and I was in some way and , you know, if they want to be me, that's something that means a lot to me because, , you know, we need to especially reach out to people that need us.

Bart Yasso: You know, this kid said that all, you know, he has no friends in the Cmba. We told his mom, I have no friends, no one wants to hang out with me. Everybody wants to hang out with Bart Yasso. So he would see me out of race and a lot of people come up to me and , and when I've read this email, it was really, it was really hard to read. It was very emotional to read, but the kids said the best thing at the end, he kind of brought me around. It was, I was all torn up. He said, he said, I want to be Bart Yasso, but I want to do, I don't want to do all that running crap that he does.

Bart Yasso: I said that I was like, you know, just like you and I, I got, you know, what I'm went from tears to laughter. And I was like, wow, this kid really knows how to end the conversation, but he does run. I didn't run, I didn't run a race with his, with his mom and this kid. So he does run, but he doesn't want to do bad water and that gut stuff, but it's, but, you know, the endurance world. And, and, you know, I, as I, as you know, I spend a lot of my time in the running space. , it is a very special inspiring place. And , I don't want people to lose sight of that because I kind of lost sight of it a little bit and it retiring and looking at this stuff that I collected really it brought it back home.

Bart Yasso: We're lucky to be able to connect with people and to inspire other people and inspire each other to keep, keep the running community going and keep us all motivated and, and always never lose sight that we're so lucky to physically be able to do what we do and culturally be able to do what we do. You know, , you know, I talked about Conrads, meeting runners that were brought up during apartheid. I mean, they were not encouraged to do anything. In fact, they were discouraged to do any to anything. So it's a, we're lucky once we got a pretty good.

Andy Petranek: Well you've really made a difference, you know, in your career. And I love that you are continuing to do that now, you know, like in your, in your pursuit of just being around being with people, you know, like I, I think how you've described the most impactful moments of your career. They had nothing. They were around running but they had nothing to do with running. , and you know, I think that that describes the epitome of, of leading a life that, that was worth, it was worth it. You've made an impact.

Bart Yasso: Oh, thank you Andy. I sure hope so. I mean, I feel that way and not a braggadocious person, but I really feel like a. But I got to be honest some days, you know, going in my job at runner's world, it never really felt like work. You know, I always felt like God, if I, if I were to write a job description, what I'm doing is actually what the job description I would write. And I know most people don't get to do that. So I feel very fortunate that I, that I had this opportunity and I think I met. He made the best of it.

Andy Petranek: Yeah. That is really, really cool. You're right. Not many people get to make that, make that kind of job description choice. So, , it's, it's cool that some people do, you know.

Bart Yasso: Yeah, yeah. I know there's other people that do, but you know, you hear people not happy at work and I can't get out of work and all they want to do is live on the weekends. I, I really loved the week. I mean, I'd love doing my job and I loved what I did. So it was a, it was a fun ride, but everything comes to an end. Retirement was a, it was, the timing was right. It was, it was the right time for me and not kick back a little bit and , but I'm still doing the best I can to stay connected with the community.

Andy Petranek: Yeah. I would just encourage you to stay the course, not me not make your life like work again, but , but, , continue to make a difference because you are and you're inspiring whether you, like you said you just do you. And that's enough.

Bart Yasso: Ah, man, thanks, that means a lot to hear that from you. Andy Petranek: Well, , thanks so much for spending the time and I'm, man. I'm really appreciative that we got connected and , that you were, were able to come on and, and talk. This has been really, really fun.

Bart Yasso: I love these opportunities. So I really appreciate you having me.

Andy Petranek: How , well really quick before we go, how can people best find you?

Bart Yasso: You know, twitter, instagram seems to be, you know, I still have faced facebook page one that, you know, you just go on and like it, it's, I have two facebook page on my personal one is maxed out, but then there's another page that you can like and then I post on there and, and I use instagram and twitter and I do have a website but you know, I don't do that much on that website a. seemed like what I got the website, it was the hot thing to do, but I really don't do that much on. I really like to social media connection because it's an easy way to connect with everybody.

Andy Petranek: So in your, is it easy to find you just Bart Yasso?

Bart Yasso: Oh yeah, just Bart Yasso. Yep. Alright. Easy. I did that right from the beginning, honestly, I know everyone else at runner's world attached runner's world and their title, other twitter and Instagram and I said, you know, as much as I loved runner's world, I'm not going to work here the rest of my life. I think my, , social media should be Bart Yasso because I think that's gonna be my name the rest of my life to you're,

Andy Petranek: you're lucky you weren't John Smith

Bart Yasso: Smith's 800's probably wouldn't have stuck around so much.

Andy Petranek: No, but Yasso 800's? Absolutely. It's very cool. It's funny. Alright, well let's take care of yourself and , thanks again.

Bart Yasso: Alright Andy, thank you so much. Really appreciate the opportunity to be on your podcast.