House of Commons Welsh Affairs Committee
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
First Report of Session 2008–09
Report, together with formal minutes, oral and written evidence
Ordered by the House of Commons to be printed 16 December 2008
HC 57 Incorporating HC 401 viii-xii, Session 2007-08 Published on 16 January 2008 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £0.00
The Welsh Affairs Committee
The Welsh Affairs Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Office of the Secretary of State for Wales (including relations with the National Assembly for Wales).
Current membership Dr Hywel Francis MP (Labour, Aberavon) (Chairman) Mr David T.C. Davies MP (Conservative, Monmouth) Ms Nia Griffith MP (Labour, Llanelli) Mrs Siân C. James MP (Labour, Swansea East) Mr David Jones MP (Conservative, Clwyd West) Mr Martyn Jones MP (Labour, Clwyd South) Rt Hon Alun Michael MP (Labour and Co-operative, Cardiff South and Penarth) Mr Albert Owen MP (Labour, Ynys Môn) Mr Mark Pritchard MP (Conservative, The Wrekin) Mr Mark Williams MP (Liberal Democrat, Ceredigion) Mr Hywel Williams MP (Plaid Cymru, Caernarfon)
Powers The committee is one of the Departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk.
Publications The reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the internet at www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_committees/welsh_affairs_committee.cfm.
Committee staff The current staff of the Committee is Dr Sue Griffiths (Clerk), Judy Goodall (Inquiry Manager), Christine Randall (Senior Committee Assistant), Annabel Goddard (Committee Assistant), Jim Lawford (Committee Support Assistant) and Rebecca Jones (Media Officer).
Contacts All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Welsh Affairs Committee, House of Commons, 7 Millbank, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 6189 and the Committee’s email address is [email protected].
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 1
Contents
Report Page
Summary 3
1 Introduction 5
2 Further education 6 Further education policy 6 Student access to cross-border further education 8 Links between employers and further education institutions 11 Sector Skills Councils 11 Government funded training 13 Qualifications 15 Apprenticeships 17 Cross-border coordination 19
3 Higher education 21 Higher education policy 21 Student access to cross-border higher education 23 Higher education funding 25 Research funding 27 Research council funding 27 Other sources of research funding 28 Territorial allocation of research funding 32 Policy consultation and coordination 36 Coordination between the Welsh Assembly Government and the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills 36 Science policy 38 Development of higher education policy 40
4 Conclusion 45
Conclusions and recommendations 46 Further Education 46 Higher Education 48
Formal Minutes 52
Witnesses 53
List of written evidence 54
List of Reports from the Committee during the current Parliament 56
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 3
Summary
Our inquiry examined the way in which cross-border issues affect the quality and delivery of further and higher education services in Wales. There are now significant differences between further education policies in Wales and in England. Some learners need to cross the border to attend college, usually because of geographical convenience or to attend a specialist course which is not readily available on their own side of the border. We recommend that the Learning and Skills Council and the Welsh Assembly Government take steps to ensure that cross-border access is maintained and encouraged, particularly when local authorities in England take over responsibilities which currently rest with the Learning and Skills Council. Employers need clearer information about the government training schemes available on both sides of the border and we recommend that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Welsh Assembly Government work together to ensure that employers understand the support available to them and how they can gain access to it. More joint working is also necessary in order to consider the potential impact of proposed new policies relating to further education on both sides of the border and to anticipate unintended consequences that could do damage well before decisions are made. At all times the needs of learners and employers must be kept to the fore rather than the convenience of institutions and authorities.
Wales is developing its own distinct approach to higher education.1 However, the need to maintain shared high standards throughout the UK, and common interests such as shared markets for staff and student recruitment, mean that in practice there is a high level of interdependency between the nations. The higher education sector in England is much larger than that in Wales so that Wales is bound to be subject to some of the consequences of policy changes across the border. Differences in spending priorities between Wales and England have led to a funding gap between the amount which higher education institutions in Wales receive compared to what they would receive if they were funded on the same basis as higher education institutions in England. This is estimated at £61 million on 2005/06 figures.
Witnesses told us that if this funding disparity continues, higher education institutions in Wales will become unable to compete effectively with institutions elsewhere in the UK and in other European Union nations and that this would limit their contribution to growing the economy in Wales. Welsh higher education receives a smaller share of UK research funding than would be expected from its relative size and if the funding gap continues to grow, this will make it increasingly difficult for higher education institutions in Wales to compete on an equal basis with English institutions for research funding, with the prospect of a downward spiral developing. We believe that research councils should not just follow excellence, but must also foster it and we recommend that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills makes available a specific allocation of research funds to develop research capacity in economically deprived areas. This would enable more higher education institutions to gain a track record of success and so be able to compete more effectively for research funds from other sources. However, it must be acknowledged that
1 As outlined in the Welsh Assembly Government’s Reaching Higher strategy and the One Wales agreement.
4 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
it will be harder for Welsh higher education institutions to attract research funding if the funding gap continues.
It is clear that communications between the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Welsh Assembly Government have not been sufficiently effective. Some of the responsibilities of the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills are UK-wide whereas others relate only to England, and our evidence suggests that this has given rise to confusion, both within and outside the Department. We recommend that the Department ensures that the devolved administration is fully consulted and involved in the early stages of planning which might lead to any further decisions with regard to higher education policy in England. Cooperation and mutual scrutiny as ‘critical friends’ should be a benefit of devolution to both sides. The Department should establish processes to ensure that the territorial extent of any policy and the potential for wider impact are clearly identified and communicated by officials before implementation. We also recommend that, unless and until any alternative structure is put in place, the coordination of higher education policy should be a top priority for the Joint Ministerial Committee.
Throughout all the strands of our inquiry, our evidence has suggested that the decision- making processes on each side of the border needs to be more coordinated, more coherent and more transparent. There is a need for officials within Whitehall to have a better understanding of devolution as there is an impression that some officials believe that it means that they can ‘forget’ about Wales. Similarly there is a need for officials and Ministers in the Welsh Assembly to take a greater interest in developing policies across the border. Devolution provides an opportunity for Wales to do things differently and for different approaches to be road-tested on either side of the border, but in both cases the objective must be to do things better for the sake of learners, employers and the wider community rather than being different just for the sake of it. In particular, officials in Wales and both in Whitehall and at a regional level in England need to be outward looking and sensitive to the realities of our long and porous border. It should be a cause for celebration and cooperation rather than an obstacle to efficiency and effectiveness. We look to the Wales Office to improve communications between the Welsh Assembly Government and the UK Government and to ensure that they are fit for purpose.
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 5
1 Introduction
1. In November 2007, we announced a wide-ranging inquiry into the provision of cross- border public services for Wales. In July 2008 we published our interim Report into the provision of cross-border health services. In that Report, our first Report within this inquiry, we noted that since the introduction of devolution in 1999, concerns have been voiced that policy makers in Cardiff and London are failing to consider the impact of diverging policy on the natural flow of people across the Welsh-English border. We believed it was important to consider the impact which such diverging policy has on those wishing to access services, and those providing services in both jurisdictions.
2. This Report focuses on cross-border issues as they affect the provision of further and higher education services. In the course of this part of the inquiry we have heard oral evidence at Westminster and received written evidence from a range of colleges, universities, education and business organisations. We are most grateful to all those who took the time to provide evidence. We would also like to thank our specialist adviser, Mr Rob Humphreys, Director, The Open University in Wales, who has provided us with expert guidance and advice throughout the inquiry.2
2 Mr Rob Humphreys declared the following interests to the Committee: member of the higher education in Wales review group; appointed to the All-Wales Convention; employed by the Open University; member of the Committee of Higher Education Wales; Past President and Chair of Welsh Liberal Democrats; member of the Wales Country Panel of Lifelong Learning UK.
6 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
2 Further education
Further education policy 3. Further education is post-16 education that is distinct from secondary school education and from university-provided higher education. The decision to take further education out of the hands of local authorities through the Education Reform Act 1988 and the Further and Higher Education Act 1992 frustrated and ended the developing trend towards tertiary education in Wales and left further education relatively isolated within the Welsh education environment. There is clearly a need to reconnect further education, or to build on the connections where they exist, both with schools and higher education institutions in Wales. Further education is primarily provided via tuition in further education institutions and through work-based learning. The Welsh Assembly Government plans and commissions further education in Wales, and its strategy for education, The Learning Country: Vision into Action, differs from that in England. The development of its policies is being informed by a number of reviews and consultations including the recommendations of the Webb Review, a review into the mission and purpose of further education in Wales which was published in December 2007.3 Further education policy is also closely linked with the Welsh Assembly Government’s skills and employment strategy, Skills That Work for Wales, which forms its response to the UK wide Leitch skills review4. Several policy papers have emerged from Skills That Work for Wales, including consultations on reducing the proportion of young people not in education, employment or training in Wales,5 and on formalising collaborative arrangements between schools and colleges via the setting up of joint committees.6
4. In addition, a draft Measure to increase the number of subject options for students aged 14 and 16 is currently being scrutinised by an Assembly Committee with a view to its being implemented from September 2009.7 In September 2008, the Welsh Assembly Government published a paper, Transforming Education and Training Provision in Wales, which proposed a radical transformation and restructure of post-16 education in Wales.8 In the same month it launched a consultation on adult community learning, A New Approach to Adult Community Learning, to seek views on a proposed new approach to this area of provision.9
3 Promise and Performance: The Report of the Independent Review of the Mission and Purpose of Further Education in Wales, December 2007, (“The Webb Report”) 4 HM Treasury (December 2006) Prosperity for all in the Global Economy – World Class Skills, Final Report of the Leitch review of skills 5 Delivering Skills that Work for Wales: Reducing the Proportion of Young people Not in Education, Employment or Training in Wales, Welsh Assembly Government 2008 6 Delivering Skills that Work for Wales: Draft Regulations for Collaborative Arrangements Between FE Institutions and FE Institutions and Schools, Welsh Assembly Government 2008 7 Learning and Skills Measure (Wales) 2008 8 Delivering Skills that Work for Wales : Transforming Education and Training Provision in Wales, Welsh Assembly Government 2008 9 Delivering Skills That Work for Wales: A New Approach to Adult Community Learning, Welsh Assembly Government, Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills 2008
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 7
5. Further education policy in England has also been subject to recent review and development. In March 2006, the Department for Education and Skills published the Further Education Reform White Paper which set out a strategy to raise skill and qualification levels for young people and adults in England.10 The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills (DIUS), created in 2007 in a Departmental reorganisation, is now responsible for further education provision in England. The Learning and Skills Council (LSC), a non-departmental public body established in 2001, currently has responsibility for the planning, commissioning and funding of post-16 education and training (excluding higher education), but there are proposals to abolish the Learning and Skills Council and transfer the responsibility for funding 16-19 provision to local authorities in England. Given that there was strong objection at the time to further education being taken away from local authorities in Wales, the role of local authorities should be reconsidered in Wales in the context of the Webb Report and policy developments which flow from it.
6. There is, then, increasing policy divergence between Wales and England. The national organisation representing further education colleges and institutions in Wales, fforwm, drew our attention to some of the differences:
There are a number of specific initiatives in Wales such as the development of the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification; the Welsh Assembly Grant system for learners attending FE or higher education; recognition of the Welsh language and the importance of Welsh-medium or bilingual education. In England there has been Train to Gain, the development of Centres for Excellence and Skills Academies and policies such as the presumption that a high performing school seeking to open a sixth form will have its application accepted.11
7. There have also been significant differences in the levels of funding for further education in Wales and England since devolution. The Webb Report noted that there had been a downward trend in the level of post-16 programme funding in Wales since 2001/02, with less being spent per head of population in Wales than in England.12 In addition, the report noted that in 2007/08, post-16 capital expenditure in Wales was less than 3% that of England (whereas the population of Wales at that time was 5.84% that of England). It suggested that £200 million would be required to upgrade the high proportion of accommodation categorised as poor, and that there was a serious danger of the estate being allowed to fall into decay.13
8. One specific difference in funding priorities is that the Welsh Assembly Government has invested in lecturers’ pay so as to achieve parity with schoolteachers. One English college close to the border reported that the higher pay available to lecturers in Wales had caused staff to leave for colleges in Wales, and had made it difficult to recruit more staff in England.14 Witnesses commented that in Wales, the additional investment in pay had
10 FE Reform White Paper Raising Skills, Improving Life Chances, Department for Education and Skills, March 2006 11 Ev 137 12 The Webb Report, p.103 13 The Webb Report, p.104 14 Ev 112
8 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
reduced the amount of funding available for other purposes such as facilities and equipment.15 16
9. The Alliance of Sector Skills Councils told us that:
Differences in funding and priorities between nations, and in FE, between regions and sectors, impacts adversely on student choice and access. It can also disadvantage employers making some sectors less attractive to students. For example; lower resourcing of FE in Wales, lower levels of funding for apprenticeships, and varying levels of tuition fees.17
10. In the further education sector, there is now a significant policy divergence between Wales and England. The different policy and funding priorities result in different opportunities and challenges for learners in the two nations.
Student access to cross-border further education 11. The great majority of further education learners are recruited locally, on the basis of ‘catchment areas’.18 Statistics provided by fforwm and the Association of Colleges indicate that the number of 16-18 year olds crossing the border from Wales to attend further education in England is about the same as the number travelling from England to Wales: for 2005/06 the numbers were respectively 763 and 760. The numbers for adult learners (aged 19 and over) were higher (4,013 from Wales and 5,195 into Wales in 2005/06).19 20 Of fforwm’s 25 member institutions in Wales, all but two had some English-domiciled learners in 2005/06, predictably with the colleges closest to the border with England recording the greatest numbers.21 According to the Association of Colleges, the majority of Welsh-domiciled learners studying at English colleges were attending colleges within a few miles of the border and other, more distant, colleges provided specific courses which also attracted Welsh-domiciled learners. Fforwm suggested that the English-domiciled learners who chose to study in Wales did so either because of geographical convenience, or because of the specialist courses offered, or because their workplaces were in Wales.22 The Association of Colleges told us that over 40% of the learners at West Cheshire College learned at their workplace (rather than at the College campus), and that “quite a lot” of them were living in Wales but working in England.23
12. The Association of Colleges stated that some English colleges close to the border served communities in Wales, but that those colleges were restricted in their ability to recruit Welsh-domiciled learners because of Learning and Skills Council funding guidance. The
15 Ev 85 16 Q 710 17 Ev 83 18 Ev 188 19 Ev 140 20 Ev 112 21 Ev 136 22 Ev 137 23 Q 638
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 9
guidance places the following restrictions on English colleges wishing to recruit learners from Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland:
Colleges and providers are reminded that Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own funding arrangements. There may be exceptional circumstances where, on occasion, individual Scottish or Welsh learners may wish to travel to or reside in England to study when specialist provision is not offered locally. The LSC has reciprocal arrangements with the funding councils for Wales and Scotland for colleges and providers close to the borders. However, it is not expected that colleges and providers in England will recruit entire groups of learners from outside their local area.24
Welsh Assembly Government guidance includes an equivalent restriction for Welsh colleges seeking to recruit English learners. This states that:
… it is not expected that colleges and providers in Wales will recruit entire groups of learners from outside their area.25
Neither of the guidance documents contains an explanation of the circumstances in which the provision of reciprocal arrangements would or would not be acceptable. We regard both sets of funding guidance as unhelpful and inappropriate and urge all authorities to see ease of access across borders, including access across regional borders within England, as something to be encouraged.
13. Ms Sara Mogel, representing the Association of Colleges, stated that the guidance limited the ability of colleges to provide information about opportunities available to prospective learners, because “in terms of recruiting, English border colleges cannot go into Welsh schools even if the college is closest to that Welsh school.”26 The Association was unable to quantify the extent of the problem, stating that:
As colleges based in England … are unable to advertise their courses direct to potential learners over the border, Wales-domiciled learners may be unaware of the full range of options available. We do not have any specific evidence, other than anecdotal, of potential learners remaining to study in Wales because of a lack of information about courses in England.27
14. The Association of Colleges pointed out that learners often have to cross the border in order to access a specialist course which is not available to them in their home nation:
For example, learners who live in west or central Cheshire who want to study aerospace engineering would probably choose Deeside College as no nearby college in England offers this course. Equally, if a potential student in North Wales wants to study hospital pharmacy they would choose West Cheshire College as no local Welsh
24 LSC Learner Eligibility Guidance 2007/08, 17 May 2007, paragraph 27 25 The National Planning and Funding System: A Guide, paragraph 8.48, Welsh Assembly Government 26 Qq 645 and 646 27 Ev 114
10 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
college offers it. A primary objective of the education system in both England and Wales must be that these learners are able to access the courses of their choice.28
The Association expressed the view that when a learner’s choice of course was only available across the border, then every reasonable effort should be made by the education providers, the funding bodies and local authorities to ensure that the learner was able to exercise his or her choice.29 Fforwm told us that in general there was an adequate range of specialist courses offered by Welsh FE institutions, which met the needs of the vast majority of learners.30 There were some very specific cases where courses were only available in England, and where “it would not make sense for colleges (in Wales) to invest in if that provision is being made available in England”.31
15. Fforwm’s view was that a more systematic coordination of cross-border provision was unnecessary, and it quoted the comments of one of its college principals:
We are not conscious of the ‘border’ for the vast majority of the time, and in an education context the current arrangements seem to be working well in that they are flexible enough to ensure that individual learners and employers get the learning they want.32
Fforwm added that:
The current arrangements seem to be working satisfactorily in that learners choose to attend provision that suits their needs. There is a risk that establishing formal cross-border coordination might lead to bureaucratic obstacles or planning systems which might make provision more difficult.33
We are not entirely convinced that cross-border arrangements are satisfactory as they stand as they seem more focussed on the convenience of providers than the objective of inspiring would-be students.
16. Bill Rammell MP, Minister of State for Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education, told us that he agreed it was important that reciprocal arrangements were in place to provide finance for students who did cross the border to attend further education, but that it was not envisaged that large groups of students would need to do so.34 Again, ‘need’ seems an unduly restrictive concept and the wishes of students and their ability to gain access to the right course for their personal aims and those of their employers should be paramount.
17. There is a not only a need for some further education learners to cross the border between Wales and England to attend college, but it should be welcomed and
28 Ev 113 29 Ev 113 30 Q 697 31 Q 697 32 Ev 137 33 Ev 135 34 Q 939
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 11
encouraged. Geographical convenience for those living close to the border, or a wish to attend a specialist course which is not available locally and conveniently in the learner’s home country are not the only reasons for crossing the border. There are advantages to colleges and learners on both sides of the border if this type of cross-border provision is made available when required and driven by learner and employer choice rather than by regulation. The evidence suggests to us that some processes to enable this to operate are in place, but that the border does act as a barrier, or at least as a perceived barrier, to colleges in their recruitment and to students in their search for the right course. We recommend that the Learning and Skills Council and the Welsh Assembly Government take steps to improve the level of cooperation, and that they give due consideration to cross-border issues when reviewing coverage and student demand in respect of further education provision on both sides of the border, particularly when local authorities in England take over responsibilities which currently rest with the Learning and Skills Council. In addition, we recommend that they encourage further education institutions to provide information to all potential or prospective learners, bearing in mind that the nearest convenient college or nearest provider of specialist courses could be across the border.
Links between employers and further education institutions 18. A key role of further education institutions is to work with employers and learners to raise skill levels and thus develop the economy and increase levels of prosperity. Links with employers are clearly a crucial aspect of the work of further education institutions, as explained by fforwm:
The scope of employer engagement in FE in Wales is vast and covers work with micro, small or medium sized enterprises (SMEs) as well as large multi-national companies. It can be part of the colleges WBL (work-based learning) contract; bespoke training; curriculum links through entrepreneurship champions; through the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification (WBQ); through learners’ work experience programmes.35
Sector Skills Councils 19. Sector Skills Councils (SSCs) have been established over the last six years to represent the skills and training interests of specific economic business sectors throughout the UK. They engage with employers, identify the current and future employment and skills needs of their businesses and develop a common framework of standards of competence to help employees identify the qualifications and training required for their area of employment. The Sector Skills Development Agency was formerly responsible for funding, supporting and monitoring Sector Skills Councils and for overseeing industries that fell outside a Sector Skills Council remit. From 1 April 2008, the Sector Skills Development Agency was replaced by the UK Commission for Employment and Skills and the Alliance for Sector Skills Councils.
35 FE Review – supplementary submissions, Paper 3, p.1, www.fforwm.ac.uk
12 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
20. The Alliance of Sector Skills Councils explained how Sector Skills Councils work across the UK, in terms of liaising between employers and education providers throughout the four nations:
The SSCs understand that education and skills are devolved functions and recognise the need to work on a four nation basis. In fact, SSCs are the UK ‘glue’ in the skills system. Large national companies wish to see consistency and transferability of skills across the UK, whilst smaller businesses need their specific needs met more locally. All demand quality and transparency in qualifications that are offered in both HE and FE. SSCs are the crucial interface between employers and the education providers.36
21. Mr Alan Woods, CEO, Skills for Justice explained how the Sector Skills Councils’ policy formulation took account of the different priorities and issues of the four nations :
…the governance arrangements within each individual organisation are set up so that each of the four countries has a voice within the governance arrangements of the individual organisations themselves. It is something within the relicensing of all Sector Skills Councils which Leitch recommends that is going to be a high priority for the United Kingdom on Employment and Skills to take cognisance of, so that the voices of all four nations have equal weight within the process.37
22. Ms Michelle Creed of Lifelong Learning UK, advised us that managing a very diverse remit within the resources provided to Sector Skills Councils was “challenging” and that there were capacity issues, both in Wales and in some regions of England.38 CBI Wales suggested that the capacity problem was more acute in Wales and that there was less frequent liaison between employers and Sector Skills Councils in Wales than in England.39
23. Sector Skills Councils play an essential role in terms of achieving many of the Leitch recommendations relating to increasing employer engagement.40 The Welsh Assembly Government skills strategy describes Sector Skills Councils as having a “key influence” in terms of shaping the employment training system, describes them as a “strategic interface between employers and the Assembly Government” and notes that “A strong network of Sector Skills Councils in Wales (SSCs), working closely with employer bodies, will help to strengthen the employer voice in decisions on skills provision.” 41
24. Sector Skills Councils play a key role with regard to consistency and transferability of skills throughout the UK. We believe that they should play a bigger role in coordinating cross-border issues for employers arising from policy divergences. We are not convinced that the Sector Skills Councils are adequately resourced to fulfil their role, particularly when taking into account the need for each Sector Skills Council to have the capacity to give due regard to territorial differences in skills policies.
36 Ev 81 37 Q 824 38 Q 826 39 Q 1029 40 The Leitch Report, p .139 41 Skills That Work for Wales Strategy and Action Plan, Welsh Assembly Government, July 2008, pp 6, 69, 70
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 13
Government funded training 25. Train to Gain (T2G) is a skills programme run in England by the Learning and Skills Council to support employers and help them improve the skills of their employees as a route to improving business performance. Professor Deian Hopkin, Chair of Universities UK Skills Task Group, provided the following information about the scheme:
The total budget for T2G in the 2007/8 financial year is £527 million and £657 million in 2008/9 reaching approximately £1 billion in 2010/11. … Further education colleges are central to this provision and most, if not all, FE colleges in England are providing training …42
26. Wales has its own Workforce Development Programme, and employers (and their employees) located in Wales are not eligible for support through Train to Gain.43 This is the case even if the employee works for a UK-wide organisation. Skills for Justice told us that, even though the prison service is a reserved matter (that is, not devolved to the National Assembly), prison staff based in Wales could not benefit from Train to Gain funds, whereas prison staff in England were able to attend leadership and development training which was financed by Train to Gain.44 The Association of Colleges pointed out that whilst colleges in England could offer commercial provision to businesses located in Wales (where the costs of the training were fully met by the employer), they could not offer the Government-funded programmes, even if the college was the most conveniently located facility for the employer, or if it offered a particular specialist course.45 Ms Sara Mogel, Principal, West Cheshire College, and representative of the Association of Colleges said that:
If the student is an individual who approaches my college because we can offer them a particular skill that maybe Deeside College cannot offer them then usually there is a way around it. If they are an employer who has a cohort of students then there is not, and that is the real issue. It is about making sure that the border does not become a barrier to both employers achieving their business aims and individuals achieving their own personal aims.46
27. Summit Skills, the Sector Skills Council for the building services engineering sector said that the marketing information and access arrangements for Train to Gain were better than those for the Workforce Development Fund in Wales:
T2G (Train to Gain) in England has seen a significant uptake of training in our sector, it’s not perfect but then nothing is. The workforce development fund is … one of the biggest secrets around, employers don’t know about it. No advertising from WAG on it at all. The ones that do know about it think the process is complicated and not worth the hassle. Training providers who work cross-border
42 Ev 157 43 Ev 131 44 Ev 100 45 Ev 113 46 Q 684
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constantly ask for T2G in Wales. The system is well marketed, simple to access and has engaged employers; this is not true for the workforce development fund.47
Fforwm described the method by which funding for employee training was allocated in Wales as “a barrier to responsiveness”, adding that it needed to be “more flexible to enable partnerships between FE and employers to grow”.48 Dr Graystone, Chief Executive of fforwm, told us that his organisation hoped that the Welsh Assembly Government would “move towards incentivising colleges to work much more closely with employers to increase the number of adults receiving training in the long-term.”49
28. However, Mr David Rosser, Director, CBI Wales suggested that there were good and bad aspects of both schemes:
We have had mixed reports on Train to Gain from employers in England. Some have found it very useful, some have found some of the structures a bit too rigid for what they as individual employers need in terms of the qualifications. The Workforce Development Programme Wales, as intended, seems to offer a high degree of flexibility, but the funds put towards it are pretty small currently and we look to see with interest how that develops. It strikes us in a number of areas in education policy in Wales that good initiatives that we would support sometimes fail to be taken forward through general lack of funding, so this is probably the latest in that line.50
29. Professor Deian Hopkin commented that the development of different policies for employer engagement in Wales and England could limit the potential for cross-border collaboration:
… it appears that the absence of programmes in Wales similar to HEIF (Higher Education Innovation Fund) or Train to Gain limits the degree to which Welsh and English institutions can collaborate on programmes relating to business and development. While Wales has developed its own strategies for innovation, enterprise and skills, there is no obvious alignment between these and similar programmes in England and this may make joint-ventures or collaborations difficult.51
30. Bill Rammell MP, Minister of State, Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills, saw it as an appropriate consequence of devolution that Wales and England should each pursue its own priorities with regard to its constituents and businesses.52 However, he agreed that it was important to provide employers with clear information about the different available schemes:
We need to do our level best to ensure that people do understand the differences [between Train to Gain and the Workforce Development Programme]. … The
47 Ev 95 48 FE Review – supplementary submissions, Paper 3, p1, www.fforwm.ac.uk 49 Q 720 50 Q 1027 51 Ev 162 52 Q 940
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 15
Welsh Assembly Government has taken a view of what it feels its businesses within Wales require … We have taken a different decision within England and, yes, we need to ensure that people are not confused between the two offers …53
31. The evidence suggests that at least some aspects of the Train to Gain scheme are working better than the Workforce Development Fund. One advantage of devolution is that the different administrations can learn from each other’s successes and failures and we suggest that the Welsh Assembly Government might consider the lessons to be learned from the implementation of Train to Gain. In particular, the Workforce Development Fund should be more actively advertised and better funded.
32. Employers need clearer information about the government training schemes available on each side of the border. This is especially important for smaller employers in border areas and employers with sites in both Wales and England. We recommend that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Welsh Assembly Government work together to ensure that employers understand the support available to them, how they can gain access to that support and to treat the border as an opportunity for comparison and cross-fertilisation of best practice rather than as a barrier.
Qualifications 33. The Sector Skills Councils told us that employers wished to see greater parity of qualifications and training on either side of the border. 54 Ms Sue Hunter, Skills for Justice stated that:
There are slight differences between the credit and qualifications frameworks ... Whilst the difference between the English framework and the Welsh framework is not as marked as the difference between the English and Scottish frameworks, Sector Skills Councils and employers have to make sense of the three different qualification and credit frameworks. Not only that, but those also have to be articulated to the European qualifications and credit framework. For employers and, I think, probably learners too there is a huge area for confusion here.55
Ms Michelle Creed of Lifelong Learning UK, explained how Sector Skills Councils were working to develop qualification systems which were transferable across-borders within the UK. 56 The Alliance of Sector Skills Councils stated that it would “welcome equal influence on the content of qualification frameworks in Wales as they are now achieving in England”.57 Lifelong Learning UK Sector Skills Council told us that it supported “the need to rationalise and audit the number of vocational and vocationally related qualifications that are currently available for all Sectors”, adding that the Leitch report had “highlighted that the number of different courses/qualifications available makes
53 Q 941 54 Q 839 55 Q 841 56 Q 823 57 Ev 82
16 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
choosing the correct programme of study very difficult”.58 For example, Lifelong Learning UK Sector Skills Council, drew our attention to what it described as a growing divergence in the qualifications requirements for further education teachers in Wales and England.59
34. Airbus told us that it had concerns that different approaches were being taken by the different administrations with regard to developing the vocational qualification system. It stated that “there are fears from employers that if there is not some common agreement we could end up with an extremely confusing and disparate qualification system. For employers like Airbus who employ large numbers of apprentices, the changes being proposed are seen as a significant potential risk.”60 Mr Gary Griffiths, Manager for Apprenticeships and Vocational Competencies stated that Airbus’s preference was to have a system which it could use across its sites in both Wales and England.61
35. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills explained that the UK Vocational Qualifications Reform Programme was established in February 2006, and that it was “being introduced in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and, to a lesser extent, Scotland”, the aim being to create a system which is “more flexible and responsive to learner and employer needs, more inclusive and less bureaucratic”.62 With regard to this and other qualification reforms, the Department advised us that “Officials in England and Wales keep each other informed. They will be monitoring the impact of the different systems on pupils moving or seeking to learn across the borders”.63 In November, the Welsh Assembly Government announced that a common framework for vocational learning, the Qualifications and Credit Framework, would be implemented in Wales, England and Northern Ireland.64
36. A specific issue raised by witnesses was the ability of further education institutions to award foundation degrees. When foundation degrees were launched in September 2001, the great majority were delivered in partnerships which involved a validating institution with degree awarding powers (a higher education institution) and one or more providers, usually further education colleges, as well as businesses and employers. The Further Education and Training Act 2007, gave further education colleges in England but not in Wales the power to validate their own foundation degrees, subject to Privy Council approval. Higher Education Wales expressed reservations about granting foundation degree awarding powers to further education institutions in Wales, 65 but fforwm suggested that if this power were not to be granted to colleges in Wales, “it could lead to English border colleges putting on their own foundation degree courses which could be targeted at
58 Ev 86 59 Ev 85 60 Ev 78 61 Q 1062 62 Ev 131 63 Ev 133 64 http://new.wales.gov.uk/news/latest/081114learners/?lang=en 65 Higher Education Wales response to the Welsh Assembly Government Skills That Work for Wales Consultation, April 2008, para 18
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 17
learners in Wales”.66 CBI Wales supported further education colleges being given the power to award foundation degrees “where they can demonstrate that they operate sufficient quality standards”.67 During the course of our inquiry (in July 2008), the Welsh Assembly Government’s First Minister, Rhodri Morgan AM, announced that his Government intended to seek legislative competence to enable it to legislate to provide for further education institutions in Wales to have the power to award foundation degrees.68
37. Given the relatively small size of many further education colleges in Wales, we believe that it is essential to aim at the highest quality and that further education colleges must be encouraged to work with higher education institutions and for such cooperation to be required rather than encouraging separate development. This is particularly important in view of the recent change of course signalled by a Ministerial announcement that further education colleges in Wales may be given powers to award foundation degrees.
Apprenticeships 38. In January 2008, the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Department for Children, Schools and Families published a consultation paper, World- class Apprenticeships: Unlocking Talent, Building Skills for All: The Government’s Strategy for the Future of Apprenticeships in England. This set out the Government’s plans to improve the quality and expand the number and range of apprenticeships available for young people in England. In July, the Departments published the Draft Apprenticeship Bill which set out a statutory basis for the apprenticeships programme, defined measures to ensure that apprenticeships would meet uniformly high standards and described the functions of the new National Apprenticeships Service. Whilst there is a statement in the Bill that it applies to England and Wales,69 some parts of the Bill clearly do not apply to Wales. For example the Bill describes the duties on the Learning and Skills Council (which has an England-wide remit) to secure sufficient and appropriate apprenticeship places but makes no mention of the Welsh Assembly Government, which would have responsibility for equivalent functions in Wales. Whilst the draft Bill took account of the English strategy, World-class Apprenticeships, there were no apparent links with the Welsh Assembly Government’s skills strategy, Skills That Work for Wales, even though the Welsh document devoted a full chapter to apprenticeships. The written statement by Baroness Morgan of Drefelin, Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills, included a comment that the draft Bill would “strengthen Apprenticeships in England”,70 adding further to the lack of clarity about the geographical extent of the Draft Bill.
39. Witnesses raised concerns about disparities between the apprenticeship schemes in Wales and in England, and about the lack of clarity regarding the impact of decisions made
66 Ev 139 67 Q 1025 68 Welsh Assembly Government Cabinet Statements, The Welsh Assembly Government’s Legislative Programme 2008-09, 15 July 2008 69 Draft Apprenticeships Bill, July 2008, Section 29 and paragraph 6 of the Explanatory Notes 70 Written Ministerial Statement, 16 July 2008, House of Lords, Apprenticeships Bill (Draft)
18 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
in England on employers in Wales. The Energy and Utility Skills Council identified the funding of apprentice training as a particular cross-border challenge, stating that:
Employers in the sector have to deal with cross-border funding inconsistencies, and employers with their own excellent in house systems have, in the past, turned away from government funding because of a heavy burden of bureaucracy which was exacerbated by audit and quality checks carried out by stakeholders from different departments with duplications across the nations. This confusion over funding may well turn employers away from recruiting apprentices.71
40. Airbus pointed out that, as a cross-border business with sites in both Wales and England, it was required to interact with the two different skills strategies of Wales and England, whilst trying to provide equal opportunity to all of its employees, wherever they were located. One circumstance where this was difficult was in the development of adult apprenticeships, because the proposed level of funding for adults from the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills was significantly less than that available in Wales.72 Airbus also commented on the proposed introduction of a National Apprenticeship Service in England and stated that it would have an immediate impact on employers with a cross-border business. It listed a number of concerns about the proposals for apprenticeships in England, and noted that it was awaiting the response from the Welsh Assembly Government with regard to any similar changes in Wales. It stated that:
Until Airbus UK and other employers fully understand what the Welsh strategy for apprenticeships entails and how it will dovetail into the far reaching changes being proposed in England we will not be able to fully develop our skills strategy for the 21st century.73
41. Airbus also suggested that there was a need to improve cross-border marketing of apprenticeships:
Apprenticeships still appear to be considered by teachers and parents as an option for the less academically able student, and careers advisers are seen to be there to support the students who aren’t academically capable of going on to further/higher education. The marketing that we carry out with Careers Wales and Connexions therefore, often doesn’t reach the high-achievers we want. We feel this is a UK issue, rather than an English/Welsh one, but one that could be better addressed with a common, coordinated Careers Wales and Connexions approach.74
42. There is bound to be some divergence in qualification systems and apprenticeship programmes between Wales and England and the proposed Apprenticeships Bill seems likely to widen these. This creates further problems for employers whose businesses are close to, or straddle the border. A lack of clarity with regard to the geographical extent of the Draft Apprenticeships Bill suggests to us that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills paid inadequate regard to the implications of devolution when
71 Ev 107 72 Ev 77 73 Ev 80 74 Ev 80
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 19
developing its apprenticeships policies. This is unacceptable. We recommend that the Department works more closely with the Welsh Assembly Government when it comes to drafting the final version of the Bill. Similarly, it is important for the Welsh Assembly Government to engage with and seek to influence the Department at an early stage of policy development. In the final analysis, the overriding objective should be to equip learners with a qualification that is recognised on both sides of the border.
Cross-border coordination 43. A common theme throughout all of the cross-border further education issues which were raised by witnesses was the need for better coordination between the Welsh Assembly Government and Whitehall Departments with regard to the development and implementation of policies. Airbus requested that government departments in Wales and in England communicate clearly any proposed policy changes so that employers are able to understand them, and ensure that their workforces are equipped for the needs of future business.75 Witnesses also identified a need for careful discussion of the likely impact of policies on both sides of the border, before decisions were made, rather than merely providing information once policies had been agreed and implemented. For example, fforwm was concerned that the proposed transfer of responsibility for funding of 16-18 education from the Learning and Skills Council to local authorities in England could create difficulties for Welsh colleges in border areas.76 The transfer could mean that policy variations between different local authorities might develop, and that cross-border issues might be dealt with less consistently. The Association of Colleges agreed that colleges on both sides of the border would need to work to ensure that the transfer did not limit opportunities for young learners77 and suggested that the consultation document could usefully have raised cross-border issues.78
44. Other witnesses made more general observations about strategic coordination and communication. CBI Wales commented that where policies diverge there ought to be greater joint working to ensure that both parties made clear to businesses operating in Wales the different funding and administrative arrangements being put in place79 and suggested that there was “a growing need for greater strategic coordination to plan and deliver better public services”.80
45. Cross-border coordination in terms of monitoring the development and consequences of policy differences is clearly important. We received assurances that coordination mechanisms were in place, but it has proved difficult to find evidence that intention is matched in practice, and employers are yet to be convinced. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills told us that it had regular contact with the devolved administrations on policy areas such as “the 14-19 agenda, qualifications reforms and the implementation of the Leitch reform, where both countries are developing similar policies,
75 Ev 81 76 Q 716 77 Q 653 78 Q 655 79 Ev 76 80 Ev 118
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but targeted to their particular needs”.81 The Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills in the Welsh Assembly Government commented that “the Leitch Review of UK Skills has required extensive cross-border working on policy and administration matters as ‘skills’ is devolved fully to the Welsh Assembly Government”.82
46. Our inquiry has persuaded us that there is a need for greater joint working to consider the impact of proposed new policies relating to further education on both sides of the border, before decisions are made. The evidence shows that there is also a need for better and more timely communication of policies to employers, so that they can consider how any changes will affect their businesses and to enable them to influence the design of courses and qualifications. In particular, officials in Wales and both in Whitehall and at regional level in England need to be outward looking and sensitive to the realities of our long and porous border. It should be a cause for celebration and cooperation rather than an obstacle to efficiency and effectiveness.
47. Finally, there is a need for greater transparency in the way that the Welsh Assembly Government and the UK Government and their respective agencies collaborate with emphasis on recognising the advantages of co-operation as well as distinctiveness and divergence.
81 Ev 120 82 Ev 196
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 21
3 Higher education
Higher education policy 48. The higher education sector makes a significant and increasing contribution to the Welsh economy. According to Higher Education Wales, for every £1 million invested in higher education in 2005/06, universities contributed £5.3 million to the Welsh economy.83
49. Many key higher education matters have been devolved. Under the Further and Higher Education Act 1992, separate funding councils were established for England, Wales and Scotland (and separate arrangements made for Northern Ireland). The Higher Education Funding Council for Wales (HEFCW) is now responsible for the administration of funds made available by the Welsh Assembly Government in support of the provision of higher education in Wales. Most higher education student support functions were devolved from what was then the Department of Education and Skills to the Assembly in 2006 via the Higher Education Act 2004. Some functions, such as the rules determining UK residency and home fee status, remain non-devolved.
50. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills is now responsible for higher education in England, and for science policy and the UK research councils throughout the UK. Higher education policy in England is currently under review. In a speech in February 2008, John Denham MP, Secretary of State for Innovation, Universities and Skills, announced a series of work streams to examine various aspects of higher education in England with a view to developing a ten to fifteen year framework for the expansion and development of higher education.84 The commissioned contributions were published in November.85 In April 2008, the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills published Higher Education at Work—High Skills: High Value, a consultation document which described a strategy to achieve growth in high level skills in England, and in October it published its report on the consultation. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills also plans to conduct a review of undergraduate variable fees (as they apply in England) in 2009.
51. Wales has its own distinct approach to higher education. The Welsh Assembly Government’s strategy for higher education, Reaching Higher, published in 2002, set out a vision to achieve a competitive and inclusive higher education sector by 2010, and described the steps to be taken to achieve that vision. It included proposals for greater collaboration between higher education institutions and, where appropriate, reconfiguring the sector so as to build on strengths and establish greater critical mass of activity in key areas such as research. The Assembly Government allocated additional funding to support this reconfiguration and collaboration,86 and some developments have flowed from this, the largest of which was the merger between Cardiff University and the University of Wales College of Medicine. The Higher Education Act 2004 enabled the Welsh Assembly
83 Ev 150 84 http://www.dius.gov.uk/speeches/denham_hespeech_290208.html 85 http://www.dius.gov.uk/policy/he-debate.html 86 Ev 192
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Government to set its own student support and tuition fee regime in Wales, and the then Assembly Minister for Education, Jane Davidson AM, invited Professor Teresa Rees to chair an independent study to offer advice on the most appropriate student support arrangements for Wales. The review team published a progress report in March 2005, setting out a number of options and the final report (‘The Rees Report’), published in May 2005, contained a number of broad recommendations to “deliver a better funded HE system and a fair and flexible student support system”.87 It recommended the introduction of variable fees (as in England) with a National Bursary Scheme to help those in need of financial assistance (instead of a competitive bursary market as in England). However the system which was implemented, and which became operational in 2007 included a policy that all Welsh-domiciled students who studied at Welsh higher education institutions were entitled to a non-means tested, non-repayable fee grant (of up to £1,845 a year for 2007/08 and £1,890 a year for 2008/09). This policy was designed “to attract more Welsh domiciled students to study and remain in Wales”.88 The Assembly Government had committed itself in its Learning Country 2: Vision into Action document to increase the percentage of students enrolled at Welsh higher education institutions who are Welsh-domiciled from 60% to 70% by 2010, in order “to encourage more graduates to work in Wales”.89
52. In June 2008, the Welsh Assembly Minister for Education, Jane Hutt announced a two stage review of higher education in Wales, in order to refresh the Reaching Higher strategy. She explained that the first stage (which concluded in September 2008) would focus on student financing arrangements in Wales, and the second stage (due to be completed by the end of February 2009) would review the mission, purpose and role for higher education in Wales.90 In November 2008, she announced that the first stage report had concluded that the present system of student finance for full-time undergraduates was no longer the most effective nor the most sustainable option and she therefore proposed that a significant proportion of the resources currently devoted to the Tuition Fee Grant should be redirected to an enhanced system of Assembly Learning Grants. Changes would be phased in, beginning with new students from the start of the academic year 2010/2011. She added that the Assembly Government intended to consult upon three policy areas: support for students, tackling student debt and investing in higher education.91
53. Most aspects of higher education policy development are now devolved, and each of the four nations has distinctive approaches and priorities for its higher education sector. Nevertheless, the benefits to all of maintaining consistently high standards in higher education institutions throughout the UK and the existence of other common interests such as shared markets for staff and student recruitment mean that in practice there continues to be a high level of interdependency between the nations. The higher education sector in England is much larger than that in Wales, and whilst Wales has the
87 Fair and Flexible Funding: A Welsh Model to Promote Quality and Access in Higher Education, Final Report of an Independent Study into the Devolution of the Student Support System and Tuition Fee Regime in Wales (The Rees Review), May 2005, p.18 88 Ev 189 89 Learning Country 2: Vision into Action, Welsh Assembly Government, Department for Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills, April 2006, p 53 90 Welsh Assembly Government, 25 June 2008 91 Statement by the Welsh Assembly Government, 25 November 2008, Higher Education, Jane Hutt, Minister for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills.
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 23
powers to develop its own policies, it remains in a number of significant respects subject to the consequences of policy changes across the border in England.
Student access to cross-border higher education 54. The recruitment of full-time higher education students is managed via the UK-wide Universities and Colleges Admissions Service (UCAS). Applications from part-time and distance learning students are managed directly by the institutions. The Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills of the Welsh Assembly Government provided the following information about the numbers of students crossing the border between Wales and England to attend higher education institutions (HEIs):
Overall Wales is a net importer of full-time undergraduate students. In 2006/07 17,950 Welsh domiciled full-time undergraduates were enrolled at HEIs outside of Wales and 26,835 students from the rest of the UK were enrolled at Welsh HEIs – an overall difference of around 9,000 students. For full-time postgraduates, 1,945 Welsh domiciled students were studying outside of Wales while a similar number from the rest of the UK were studying in Wales.92
There was a total of 66,003 full-time undergraduate students enrolled in Welsh higher education institutions in 2006/07, including 2,295 from other EU countries and 3,796 from non-EU countries.93
55. It is clear then, that students from outside Wales make up a significant proportion of the total. HEFCW pointed out that in 2006/07, nearly 50% of full-time undergraduates at Welsh higher education institutions came from outside Wales.94 Over half the full-time undergraduate students at Aberystwyth University and Cardiff University were from England (62% and 52% respectively). Higher Education Wales commented that “Clearly as a sector we are very dependent on attracting students from other parts of the United Kingdom and from the rest of the world”.95
56. Cardiff University described the benefits to Wales brought by these students:
In addition to the 2,500 (approximately) international students from over 80 countries outside the EU, Cardiff University also recruits a significant number of students from across the border in England… These students bring financial benefits to the Welsh economy and friendships and networks can bear fruit in future years for the local economy in business partnerships and alumni suggesting or locating businesses in Wales or choosing to trade with Welsh partners.96
Higher Education Wales commented on the importance of cross-border activities for universities in Wales:
92 Ev 187 93 HESA Student Record 2006/07 94 Ev 146 95 Q 762 96 Ev 114
24 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
Many universities in Wales now recruit a third or more of their academic staff from beyond the UK. Global charities and foundations are increasingly important sources of research income. Multinational corporations are increasingly footloose when locating their global research and development centres. Universities have entered a new age in which cross-border activities are absolutely pivotal to their long term success. Universities in Wales have embraced this process and have welcomed the opportunities that cross-border working provides in helping to build a knowledge based economy in Wales.97
57. Recent research reports published by Universities UK have predicted how the size and shape of the higher education sector in the UK might be affected by demographic changes, and discussed how universities might respond to changing market conditions. One of its reports suggested that:
…Higher education faces significant demographic change over the next twenty years amongst the age groups from which it traditionally recruits full-time and part-time undergraduates. In particular the number of 18 to 20 year olds who make up over 70 per cent of entrants to full-time undergraduate programmes is projected to fall sharply from 2009 to 2019 before rising again up to 2027.98
Higher Education Wales noted that Wales’s success in attracting students from across the rest of the UK and beyond will become increasingly important as the effects of this demographic change takes place and suggested that:
It is important to bear in mind the potentially negative consequences of policy measures to engineer a more insular Welsh undergraduate student market as this could lead to considerable difficulties in maintaining overall student numbers at universities in Wales.99
58. Higher Education Wales told us that there were some indications that the proportion of Welsh-domiciled full-time undergraduates at Welsh institutions had increased over the last three years, and that the proportion of English-domiciled students at Welsh institutions had decreased. It explained that some changes were to be expected following the introduction of variable top up fees in England in 2006/07 and in Wales in 2007/08, but that it was too early to be fully confident about trends.100 HEFCW pointed out that the distinctiveness of Welsh higher education policy could be another factor behind any cross- border student application patterns.101
59. Harper Adams University College, a specialist higher education institution focusing on agriculture, land and food related studies, also expressed concern about the potential for differing fees policies to affect cross-border student applications. The College is located in
97 Ev 150 98 The future size and shape of the higher education sector in the UK: threats and opportunities, Universities UK, July 2008, p.6 99 Ev 153 100 Ev 146 101 Ev 147
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 25
England but close to the border with Wales. In 2006 and 2007, 10% of its students were Welsh-domiciled, but it stated that:
…we note that there are differences in the costs to students of studying in Wales relative to pursuing similar studies in England … Whilst we have not yet seen a reduction in our Welsh intake, we would be concerned were there to be any greater divergence in relative costs of study to students which could undermine recruitment in a strategic subject area within a major provider.102
60. Student flows from England to Wales are very significant for Welsh higher education institutions and for the Welsh economy. Although it appears that increasing numbers of Welsh-domiciled students are choosing to study in Wales, within the UK Wales has the highest proportion of full-time higher education students coming from outside the country. Policy decisions made in England which alter the pattern of student flows, whether as an intended or unintended consequence, could have a major impact on Wales. Similarly, decisions of the Welsh Assembly Government need to take account of the reality of choices made by would-be students and the health of Welsh higher education institutions.
Higher education funding 61. UK higher education and research funding is provided via the dual-support system. The first element is the Government’s investment in teaching and research. The devolved administrations receive this funding from the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills as a result of Barnett formula consequentials, related to the level of higher education spending in England. They are then free to decide how much of this investment to allocate to higher education, via their respective funding councils (HEFCW for Wales). The second element of the dual-support funding is provided on a UK-wide basis by the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills via the research councils and bodies such as the Technology Strategy Board. Research councils set priorities and budgets under a framework set by the UK Government, and funding is provided through a competitive grant application process based on research excellence.
62. Witnesses told us that since devolution the different spending priorities of the Welsh Assembly Government and the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills had led to the development of a significant difference between levels of funding for higher education in Wales and England. Higher Education Wales pointed out that whilst Scotland and England were pursuing a policy of investing in higher education, the Assembly Government had “chosen to freeze the HE unit of resource in real terms since 2001/02”.103 It went on to describe the extent of the issue:
The divergence in HE funding has led to the emergence of a growing investment gap between universities in Wales and those in Scotland and England. The size of the gap has grown to such an extent that it now represents 19% of total HE grant in Wales. An even larger investment gap exists between Wales and Scotland. A
102 Ev 165 103 Ev 153
26 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
position of equal funding between the HE sectors in Wales and England in 2001/02 has rapidly deteriorated and developed into a substantial HE investment gap which totalled £61m in 2005/06 (the latest available figures) according to HEFCW statistics.104
63. Professor Teresa Rees described the dual funding system as “well respected”. However she pointed out that many key decisions about higher education spend (such as pay and pensions) were made at a UK level, while universities’ income and therefore capacity to meet the bills depended upon devolved funding decisions. She commented on the possible consequences of the funding gap:
We are already seeing the consequences of this gap in deteriorating spend per student in Welsh institutions … Infrastructure repair and new investment are first casualties. Difficulties in recruiting and retaining good staff are likely to follow. Universities in Wales are unlikely to be able to compete effectively.105
64. Other witnesses expressed similar concerns: Higher Education Wales stated that:
Such persistent underinvestment from the Assembly Government will significantly frustrate the ability of universities to create a knowledge economy at a time when Wales’s economic performance is lagging well behind the rest of the UK.106
Cardiff University explained that:
HEIs in Wales are committed to helping Wales succeed in meeting the challenges of globalisation but, without a level playing field with England and Scotland, Welsh HEIs will lag behind their counterparts in the rest of the UK in contributing to the opportunities presented by globalisation.
The Assembly sets out ambitious goals and targets for the HE sector and it is questionable whether these can be met within current resources. In order to secure the sustainable growth and development essential to support Wales’ needs, appropriate and sufficient resources must be made available to secure a vibrant and competitive HE sector able to compete with the very best in the UK and beyond.107
North East Wales Institute of Higher Education (now Glyndŵr University) agreed, stating that:
Given that all HEIs are in competition, the comparatively lower level of funding given to Welsh HEIs disadvantages them in the market place. Welsh institutions are able to provide fewer resources per student, possibly resulting in equipment and buildings being of a lower standard.108
104 Ev 154 105 Ev 171 106 Ev 154 107 Ev 113 108 Ev 182
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 27
CBI Wales described the possible consequences for Welsh businesses and the Welsh economy:
A clear consequence of devolution is the possibility of divergent decisions on funding for higher education. However, we believe the current £61m investment gap between the Higher Education sector in Wales and England must be addressed. Higher Education is vital in supplying the economy with graduate and postgraduate skills and engaging in research and development partnerships with business. While HE is as yet performing well, Wales cannot hope to fully achieve a ‘knowledge driven economy’ with an underfunded HE sector. It is almost inevitable that underfunding will lead to Wales falling behind EU nations and greatly undermining this major driver to a knowledge economy. It will be extremely difficult to rectify this at a later stage. Action must be taken immediately.109
65. Differences in spending priorities between the governments in Wales and in England have led to a funding gap, estimated on 2005/06 figures to be £61 million, between the amount which the higher education sector in Wales receives compared to what it would receive if it were funded on the same basis as the higher education sector in England. Witnesses told us that if this funding disparity were to continue, the higher education sector in Wales would become unable to compete effectively with institutions in the UK and other European Union nations and that this would limit its ability to contribute to a growing economy in Wales.
Research funding 66. Universities in Wales have two sources of research funding under the dual support system; the Welsh Assembly Government (via HEFCW) and the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills (primarily via the UK research councils). The HEFCW research funding, known as quality-related funding, is provided to support overheads, build capacity and to match-fund certain contracts rather than to support specific research projects. It is allocated to higher education institutions on a formula basis, weighted by research excellence. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills describes this quality-related funding as “core funding to support research infrastructure and build capacity for HEIs’ own determined and blue skies research”.110 It stated that HEFCW quality-related funding for Welsh higher education institutions was £67.3 million in 2008/09.111
Research council funding 67. The other sources of research funding under the dual support system are the UK research councils. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills provides funding to the research councils through the science budget. Welsh universities can apply to the councils and compete with universities from across the UK for a share of the funding. Decisions about funding awards are made by the research councils, and the role
109 Ev 117 110 Ev 127 111 Ev 127
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of the Department is “to oversee the Research Councils in undertaking the funding of high quality research against the priorities agreed in each Council’s Delivery Plan”.112 According to Research Councils UK, “the seven UK Research Councils are the largest public funders of research in the UK, investing over £3 billion per annum in research, training and knowledge transfer across a broad spectrum of research areas”.113
68. In addition to funding research at higher education institutions, two research councils support their own research institutes in Wales.114 The Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council supports the Institute of Biological, Environmental and Rural Sciences which is part of Aberystwyth University, and the Natural Environment Research Council supports the British Geological Survey at Cardiff and the Centre for Ecology and Hydrology at Bangor. The budget for these institutes in 2006/07, as a proportion of the research councils’ total UK spend on institutes for that year, was 5.8% and 2% respectively.115 Research councils also fund postgraduates in universities, either through a block grant to the universities who allocate the individual grant or through competition for grants by individual students.116
Other sources of research funding 69. Universities in Wales and the rest of the UK also secure research funding from other sources such as businesses, charities and international bodies. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills stated that universities in both England and Wales were actively involved in European Research initiatives and that they secured funding for European Union collaborative research with a range of partners in the UK and Europe.117 Welsh higher education institutions won research grants of £121.3m in 2007/08 (of which £35m was awarded by the research councils). 118
Research Capital Investment Fund 70. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills has UK-wide responsibility for the new Research Capital Investment Fund and the Technology Strategy Board. The Research Capital Investment Fund replaced the Science Research Investment Fund which was a temporary fund designed to reduce a backlog of underinvestment in research capital. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills described the Research Capital Investment Fund as “a permanent funding stream to provide ongoing funding for research capital.”119 It is allocated by formula, and is made up of a combination of funding from the Department’s Science Budget across the UK, and funding from the separate higher education budgets (from the Welsh Assembly Government in the case of Welsh higher
112 Ev 127 113 Ev 173 114 Ev 178 115 Ev 179 116 Ev 128 117 Ev 128 118 Ev 190 119 Ev 128
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 29
education institutions). According to the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills, for the spending review period 2008-2011, the total budget from this fund for Welsh higher education institutions is £56.3m.120
Technology Strategy Board 71. The Technology Strategy Board was established in July 2007 and funds research and development in emerging areas of technology. It has a UK-wide remit and its budget for 2008/09 to 2010/11 is over £1 billion.121 The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills explained that the Board had established arrangements for liaison with the devolved administrations:
The Devolved Administrations are working with the Technology Strategy Board on a number of activities, including Knowledge Transfer Partnerships and jointly funded Collaborative R&D projects where the Devolved Administrations have, since 2004, provided over £6.7 million (Welsh Assembly Government £4.5m, Northern Ireland £1.8m, Scottish Government £0.4m) of funding. Work is underway to further strengthen the national-regional interface.
David Grant, Vice Chancellor of Cardiff University, is a member of the Technology Strategy Board’s Governing Body and has a role of representing the Devolved Administrations.122
Professor Ian Diamond, Chair of the Executive Group of Research Councils UK commented that Welsh institutions were keen to engage with the Technology Strategy Board and its work,123 and that the Technology Strategy Board was doing everything it could to engage with industry and with policy makers throughout the UK.124
Matched fundraising scheme 72. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills has responsibility for some research funding initiatives which only relate to England. In 2006 the UK Government announced that universities in England would benefit from a matched fundraising scheme under which donations to universities would be partly matched with funds from the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills. Higher Education Wales pointed out that there was as yet no equivalent scheme in Wales, which could discourage potential donors from supporting Welsh higher education institutions:
The Assembly Government has yet to announce a similar matched fundraising scheme in Wales. … There are fears that charitable foundations or donors who may have considered giving to universities in Wales may not consider donating because
120 Ev 128 121 Ev 191 122 Ev 129 123 Q 885 124 Q 886
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their contribution would not be matched by government funds, whereas a donation in England would attract that support.125
73. The introduction of a matched fundraising scheme for universities in England, and the absence of any equivalent scheme in Wales, will inevitably increase the funding disparity between England and Wales and the advantages of such a strategy should be explored by the Welsh Assembly Government.
Health research funding 74. There are some sources of research funding specific to Wales. The Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills at the Welsh Assembly Government stated that the Health Department had its own research funding of £36.5m in 2007/08.126 Witnesses suggested however, that this research funding was not readily accessible by higher education institutions. Professor Teresa Rees told us that there were “enormous difficulties in the research allocation which is in the NHS” and stated that “in Wales it is incredibly difficult to extract that budget from the NHS in Wales, frankly because the NHS in Wales is under-funded and it is needed to subsidise clinical practice”.127 In England, the NHS research budget is now the responsibility of the newly formed UK Office for the Strategic Coordination of Health Research, which has also assumed responsibility for the UK-wide former Medical Research Council. Higher Education Wales commented on this dual role:
Cross-border coordination of health research … is also vital for universities in Wales. …it is also important that the new UK Office for the Strategic Coordination of Health Research … takes the views and priorities of health researchers in Wales fully on board before recommending its strategic approach to clinical research across the UK.128
Professor Dylan Jones, Head of the School of Psychology, Cardiff University, described the combining of the Medical Research Council with the England-only National Institute for Health Research (NIHR) as “a cause for concern”.129 He stated that:
At present, funds that are derived from NIHR are not available to HEIs in Wales, and at present there is no equivalent or matching funding stream in the Welsh system. Not only does this mean Welsh HEIs cannot collaborate on NIHR-funded projects, but there is also a significant funding gap in the medical research arena in Wales.130
The Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills stated that the Assembly Government was planning to establish a National Institute of Health Research for Wales “to maximise impact of its research funding and help create synergies with
125 Ev 154 126 Ev 191 127 Q 967 128 Ev 152 129 Ev 164 130 Ev 164
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 31
other UK research funding bodies”, but did not provide any further details as to whether or how this might be coordinated with equivalent bodies in England, or whether the funding would be available for research in higher education institutions, outside the NHS.131
75. Witnesses expressed concerns about the decision to merge the responsibilities of the Medical Research Council, which has a UK-wide remit, with the National Institute for Health Research, whose remit covers England only. We recommend that the newly formed UK Office for the Strategic Coordination of Health Research implements procedures to ensure that the views and priorities of health researchers in Wales are fully taken into account when considering its strategic approach to clinical research across the UK.
Funding to support collaboration 76. There is funding available in both Wales and England to support greater collaboration between higher education institutions, both within nations and across the border. The Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills told us about the support it provides for research collaboration between Welsh university departments and between Welsh and English universities:
In some areas, research collaboration between Welsh university departments has been strengthened through transitional support from a ring-fenced budget, Reaching Higher, which is provided to drive up performance in the Welsh HE sector. There are good signs that this reconfiguration agenda is successful, increasing capacity to win further funds. … Collaboration is also developing across-borders, such as between Cardiff and Bristol Universities. In some research areas, and especially in EU regional funding, it has also been possible to leverage additional business investment, therefore driving up the scale and likely economic impact of research.132
The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills described a similar approach in England:
In February 2005 HEFCE announced specific funding to support innovative strategic research collaboration between HEIs where this was likely to improve strength, quality and responsiveness of the national research base; and where partners had a commitment to sustained strategically-driven collaboration. The funding aims to support innovative, leading-edge work that will carry forward work in the discipline(s) on the national or international scene. It supports collaboration by HEIs in England with other HEIs within the dual support system across the UK.133
This source of support for collaboration and for cross-border projects was welcomed by witnesses. Professor Teresa Rees commented that:
131 Ev 191 132 Ev 191 133 Ev 128
32 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
There is through HEFCW the research and collaboration fund and that has enabled quite a lot of joint research projects across the institutions in Wales, bringing strengths together. That has been excellent. One of our difficulties though has been … that our natural partner on some areas may be in fact be an institution in England … and I am very pleased that the two funding councils have now enabled us to apply jointly, together, for something that cuts across the border.134
77. Some witnesses suggested that it was difficult in practice to secure funding for cross- border projects. Cardiff University stated that there were “challenges in securing funding for such initiatives from the respective funding councils”135 and the University of Wales Institute, Cardiff stated that Welsh higher education institutions were unable to participate in Centres of Knowledge Exchange projects which were supported by the English funding council.136 The North East Wales Institute of Higher Education (now Glyndŵr University) stated that the Research Councils and the Technology Strategy Board both invited UK- wide collaborative proposals and that it had participated in several bids and benefited from the cross-border expertise gained through conducting such research.137 However, it also commented that HEFCW’s funding to support collaboration and reconfiguration amongst Welsh institutions was less valuable to institutions close to the border, where collaboration would be more appropriate with English institutions, because of geographical proximity.138
78. HEFCW gave an assurance that the necessary arrangements for cross-border collaborations were now in place:
The two councils [HEFCW and HEFCE] are clear that, where a good case exists … there should be no impediment to joint funding. … There is well established custom and practice in these matters, so that usually the main focus of discussion is about the nature of activity and the deliverables sought, rather than about the partition of funding or the governance arrangements.139
79. We have been assured that the necessary arrangements are in place to enable the funding councils of Wales and England to support cross-border collaborative projects. We are supportive of such projects and believe that they could help foster better cross- border cooperation and as a consequence, potentially improved research funding in Wales. We recommend that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Welsh Assembly Government monitor this issue so as to ensure that joint funding is provided to appropriate projects.
Territorial allocation of research funding 80. Research commissioned by Universities UK showed that the territorial allocation of research funding from all of the main sources (research councils, charities, industry and
134 Q 952 135 Ev 115 136 Ev 185 137 Ev 181 138 Ev 182 139 Ev 148
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 33
commerce and the EU) was not representative of the relative populations of the four nations. The research report stated that:
Scotland enjoys significantly more than its population share of research funding from all sources other than the EU, although on a proportional basis its share is now declining and England’s is gaining. Moreover, as England continues to have a little under its population share of income from most sources, it appears that Scotland’s strong position is largely at the expense of Wales and Northern Ireland, which receive significantly less than their population shares of research funding.140
81. HEFCW told us that there was “a well-established pattern” of Wales winning a lower share of research council income than might be expected from its relative size and stated that it was working with the research councils to address this issue by encouraging them to address meetings of senior university research leaders and managers and by seeking to foster better research performance within the sector.141 Research Councils UK explained that for the financial year 2006/07:
…around 3% of funding to HEIs by the Research Councils was directed to Welsh HEIs, although there is considerable variation between Councils, with a range of 2- 8%. For comparison, the proportion of UK academic staff employed by Welsh HEIs was around 5% in 2004/05 …142
82. The North East Wales Institute of Higher Education (now Glyndŵr University) suggested that since there were no Welsh-based representatives on the councils of several of the Research Councils, there might be “a lack of a Welsh voice steering the work of these organisations which fund a large proportion of the fundamental research undertaken in the UK”.143 Professor David Worsely, Swansea University, noted that there had been no Welsh representatives on the research council panel which turned down his bid for an industrial doctorate centre in the Engineering School at Swansea University.144 However, the Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills told us that there was “active participation by researchers from Welsh HEIs within each of the Research Councils” and that “appropriately qualified individuals from Welsh HEIs are encouraged to engage with the Research Councils, including involvement in peer review panels”.145 Both the Welsh Assembly Government and Research Councils UK confirmed that there were formal Memoranda of Understanding and clear channels of communication between the research councils and relevant bodies in Wales.146 147
83. However, witnesses also suggested that Welsh higher education institutions would continue to encounter difficulties in securing research funding because of the lower levels
140 Devolution and higher education, Universities UK, December 2008, p.28 141 Ev 149 142 Ev 173 143 Ev 182 144 Ev 183 145 Ev 191 146 Ev 191 147 Ev 179
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of infrastructure investment in Wales. Professor Gummett, Chief Executive of HEFCW stated that:
…it would be better, given that we are running from behind and therefore as always when trying to catch up having to run faster, if we could inject a bit more pace into that process by investing in more staff in key research areas…. That requires additional funding.148
Professor Teresa Rees expressed support for the way in which research councils operated,149 and agreed that it was the funding gap which made it difficult for Welsh higher education institutions to prepare sufficiently competitive research bids:
I have served on research councils myself and I am very confident that they are fair and they follow excellence, but the difference with the funding gap … of £61 million is that academics in Welsh institutions are going to have less time to develop research skills, put bids together, go to conferences and all of that, that is the issue.150
CBI Wales agreed with this view, stating that “because awards by funding councils are done on a competitive basis and if you are less able to invest in your research capability because of the core under-funding then you are probably going to be in a poorer position to compete for further funding council bids”.151
84. Witnesses suggested that collaboration between higher education institutions was a key route to making stronger research bids and to securing more research investment. Professor Ian Diamond, Chair of the Executive Group of Research Councils UK told us that:
… there is an enormous need … for collaboration across institutions so that the very best researchers do not need to have the very best equipment, for example, in their own institution, but they can work together across institutions to establish that. That does not say that you need one research institution; it does say that you need collaboration and partnership, which goes across institutions, and may indeed cross institutions outside Wales into the rest of the United Kingdom, or indeed internationally so that the very best scholars feel that they can pursue their research in entirely the best way within Wales.152
Higher Education Wales advised us that higher education institutions in Wales were collaborating with each other in order to produce stronger bids:
148 Qq 777, 778 149 Q 967 150 Q 973 151 Q1020 152 Q 881
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 35
That is the key to it because many of our science departments are a bit on the small side, even within each institution, but if you put them together with other institutions they become very significant.153
85. Universities UK suggested that the research councils’ criterion of excellence created a trend for funds to move increasingly toward already-successful institutions:
A policy that has research excellence as the sole criterion for their allocation will have the effect, over time, of rewarding the already-successful and diverting funds away from those who have potential but who may not have demonstrated success in the past.154
Universities UK also pointed out that whilst the use of the criterion of excellence was “understandable” and “laudable” in order to maintain standards of high-quality research, it took no account of the significant economic impact on the regions and localities where that public money was spent.155 An illustration of this was provided by Professor Worsley, Swansea University. He pointed out that the rejection by the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council of his Department’s research bid to continue with its engineering doctorate in steel technology programme would have significant economic implications for Wales:
The disinvestment in Wales is significant. The EngD and MRes schemes represent an annual Research Council income to Welsh HEIs of around £1.4 million which is matched by industry and is critically the catalyst for far more value added research activity in the various clusters at the partner HEIs. In addition, for the longer term, the fall off in talented high calibre researchers entering Welsh Industry will have a negative economic impact. With an upcoming period of recession, increasing global output of materials and the noted skills shortages in the UK this could make the industry sectors very vulnerable since innovation and product differentiation will be the success measures for a sustainable manufacturing sector in Wales.156
Universities UK suggested that funds should be made available to provide opportunities for institutions with new potential which might not be able to demonstrate past success and to stimulate economic growth where it was most needed:
Given the economic impact of research spending, and the significantly lower Gross Value Added of Wales and Northern Ireland than the UK average, the question of whether additional funds should be made available from UK sources to support the development of research capacity in the devolved territories needs to be considered. Such funds could take the form of an allocation from the UK to support research
153 Q 758 154 Devolution and higher education, Universities UK, December 2008, p 32 155 Ibid 156 Ev 184
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capacity generally, or specific funds within the budget of each of the research councils.157
86. It is clear that the higher education sector in Wales receives a smaller share of UK research funding than would be expected from its relative size. Witnesses have suggested various explanations for this, including the possibility that the lower level of higher education infrastructure investment in Wales is compromising the quality of research bids; the fact that there is a greater proportion of smaller institutions in Wales; the possibility that Welsh interests are inadequately represented when selecting successful research bids; and the possibility that current systems for awarding funding favour established institutions with a proven track record rather than ones with future potential.
87. Research investment brings significant economic benefits to the surrounding localities. Higher education institutions in Wales will be disadvantaged if the funding gap continues to grow, which will make it increasingly difficult for them to compete on an equal basis with English institutions for research funding, with the prospect of a downward spiral developing. This would have a significant and negative impact on the economy of Wales. We believe that the UK-wide distribution of research funding by the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills should take account of the relative needs of different parts of the UK for such economic investment. However, it must be acknowledged that it will be harder to attract research funding if the funding gap referred to in paragraph 65 continues. We recommend that the Department prepares and publishes a report on the varying levels of research investment across the different nations and regions of the UK, together with an explanation of the variation and steps which could be taken to achieve a more equitable distribution, giving consideration to each of the factors listed in paragraph 86 above.
88. We believe that research councils should not just follow excellence, but must also foster it. Higher education funding should not be based on a winner takes all model. We support the suggestion of Universities UK that, given the economic impact of research spending, funds should be made available at a UK level to support the development of research capacity in economically deprived areas of the four nations. We recommend that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills makes available a specific allocation of research funds to develop the research capacity of higher education institutions outside the established elite to enable them to gain a track record of success and so be able to compete more effectively for research funds from other sources.
Policy consultation and coordination
Coordination between the Welsh Assembly Government and the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills 89. Responsibility for higher education policy is now largely devolved, and each of the four nations has developed its own distinct approach. However, the Department for
157 Devolution and higher education, Universities UK, December 2008,p32
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 37
Innovation, Universities and Skills retains UK-wide responsibility for some aspects, and there is a need for it in those instances to consider the interests and policies of each of the four nations. This is not always a straightforward matter. In a recent report, Universities UK commented that “Devolution has created a range of anomalies, discrepancies and complexities in almost every sector”.158
90. Witnesses expressed concerns about the extent and effectiveness of consultation and coordination between the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Welsh Assembly Government, and about the potential for confusion to arise because some of the Department’s higher education responsibilities were UK-wide and others related only to England. Professor Gummett, Chief Executive of HEFCW told us that he was concerned about the number of Government documents which appeared to show “insufficient awareness of differences across the UK”. 159 HEFCW noted that there was a risk that “the desire for greater strategic coherence might take insufficient account of the diversity of agendas across the UK, and so result in too England-oriented a focus for the UK-facing aspects of the work of DIUS”.160 Higher Education Wales agreed, stating that:
…there appears to have been a culture in some Whitehall departments that aspects of HE policy which are legally devolved but have an essential UK dimension do not require consultation with the devolved administrations. For example, there has been a recent tendency by the UK Government to take unilateral decisions in relation to research assessment policy, which though devolved, can only be organised on a UK basis to be effective.161
Aberystwyth University commented that it was often necessary to remind UK-wide agencies “that research funding is indeed UK-wide and that Wales should be given the opportunity to compete for a share of the available funding”.162
91. Universities UK noted in its report on higher education and devolution that the devolved departments and funding bodies were members of the Funders Forum, which was now under the remit of the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills, but that although its meetings provided an opportunity for networking and discussions, it was not a decision making forum. It concluded that the remit of the Forum was limited, and that “The devolved departments or funding bodies find it hard to point to tangible outcomes in which they have been able to exercise influence through the forum to the benefit of their country or region”.163
92. We were told that there were a number of communication mechanisms in place between the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the devolved administrations. Bill Rammell MP, Minister of State, Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills, explained that his Department’s officials held a series of
158 Devolution and higher education, Universities UK, December 2008, p5 159 Q 797 160 Ev 149 161 Ev 151 162 Ev 75 163 Devolution and higher education, Universities UK, December 2008, p.31
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quadrilateral meetings with the devolved administrations which took place three times a year.164 We were also told that the UK Funders Forum met quarterly “to share and agree strategies for ensuring the sustainability of the research base” and that it included representatives from the devolved administrations.165 HEFCW told us that the funding councils sought to inform one another about locally distinctive aspects of higher education policy, “doing so via cross-observer status on each other’s boards, twice-yearly meetings between their chairs and chief executives and regular dialogue between officers”.166 HEFCW explained that informal dialogue also took place between the English and Welsh funding councils from time to time, for example concerning potential cross-border collaborative activity between institutions.167 The Welsh Assembly Government’s Department of Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills stated that it had been “mindful to the cross-border implications” of its further and higher education policies and had “engaged in coordination and communication activities across its policies”.168 It added that higher education student finance was coordinated via policy quadrilateral meetings which took place at least three times a year and, within Wales, via a student finance Wales consultative group which met on an ad hoc basis.169
93. Whilst there are undoubtedly a number of communications mechanisms in place between the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Welsh Assembly Government, it is clear that these have not been sufficiently effective. We fear that the liaison between the two departments is of a formal nature only and steps need to be taken to create a relationship which develops into a true partnership. We heard evidence of instances where UK policy had been developed with little attention given to Welsh issues, and of policy developed for England without consideration of the impact it would have on Wales and vice versa. We look to the Wales Office to improve communications and ensure that they are fit for purpose. There should also be better liaison between the Wales Office, the Welsh Assembly Government and HEFCW.
Science policy 94. Other matters described by witnesses related to particular policy areas where more effective UK-wide coordination would benefit both Wales and England. For example witnesses raised the potential for confusion over responsibility for science policy. Whilst science policy is a UK Government responsibility, the Welsh Assembly Government funds research conducted in science departments in Welsh universities through HEFCW’s quality related grants. The Welsh Assembly Government published in 2006 its own strategic document, A Science Policy for Wales, which set out key priority areas for science research in Wales, although it has not provided specific additional funding to support the
164 Q 908 165 Ev 128 166 Ev 148 167 Ev 148 168 Ev 196 169 Ev 189
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 39
implementation of the strategy.170 The Welsh Assembly Government’s First Minister, Rhodri Morgan, AM told us that:
…science policy is, in principle, not devolved, but that does not mean, because of its importance for climate change or for higher education or for economic development, that we do not have a pretty strong input into making our own science policy and devising how to make sure that is properly done.171
Higher Education Wales suggested that there was scope for greater collaboration and investment with regard to science policy:
… the Welsh Assembly Government should be working closely with DIUS to explore the potential for a joint WAG/DIUS science investment fund and/or the location of a DIUS ‘strategic science site’ in Wales (as has been developed in the North West and in Oxfordshire). HEW does not believe that sufficient policy collaboration in this area of cross-border policy responsibility is occurring between WAG and DIUS, despite the recent appointment of an (interim and part time) Assembly Chief Scientific Officer.172
95. Bill Rammell MP, Minister of State, Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills, remained convinced that since science policy was clearly a reserved matter, there was no need for further clarification. He told us that:
I believe it is because of the importance of a joined up approach to science funding that science is a reserved matter. I am clear that when the Government sets out science policy it does so in view of the UK as a whole. A key foundation of the policy is the Science and Innovation Investment Framework 2004-2014. The allocation of the Science Budget for the CSR2007 period clearly and repeatedly emphasises the UK-wide nature of science spending. Against that background, I see no need for a national debate at this time.173
The Secretary of State for Innovation, Universities and Skills told us that he “would not want to raise expectations of a DIUS “strategic science” fund or site in Wales” and that his Department’s policy for science and research funding was “to fund the best science wherever it occurs in the UK, not to aim for a particular national spread of research investment.”174
96. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills is responsible for science policy throughout the UK and must ensure that all of the four nations benefit from its science investments. The Welsh Assembly Government has defined its own science priorities for Wales but has provided no specific additional funding to pursue these
170 Ev 151 171 Uncorrected transcript of oral evidence taken before the Welsh Affairs Committee on 12 June 2008 (Hc 401-vii, Session2007-08) Q605. Corrected version to be printed with the Committee’s Report on the provision of cross-border health services for Wales. 172 Ev 152 173 Ev 135 174 Ev 197
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aims. There is a clear risk that neither body will give sufficient priority to science investment in Wales, despite the obvious benefits to the economy there. We recommend that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills explores with the Welsh Assembly Government the potential for a joint science investment fund or a joint strategic science site in Wales.
Development of higher education policy 97. A key issue raised by witnesses was the apparent lack of coordination between the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Welsh Assembly Government with regard to the development of higher education policy, given that each has separately initiated reviews of higher education policy this year. In November, the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills published nine contributions which it had received to date regarding different aspects of its higher education review, most of which appeared to relate to the UK rather than solely to England.175 Witnesses pointed out in particular the impact which the English review might have on the Welsh higher education sector, and questioned whether appropriate consultation mechanisms had been put in place to consider possible impacts on Wales before making policy decisions. Higher Education Wales stated that:
The result of a wholesale review of Higher Education in England announced by the DIUS Secretary of State, John Denham, in February 2008 will doubtless have a huge cross-border impact on Welsh universities. With ten major strands of work covering all aspects of HE, the DIUS review is both in-depth and wide ranging. Without proper input from the devolved administrations there is a danger that the DIUS review of HE in England may stray into areas of UK competence.176
98. Professor Merfyn Jones, the then Chair of Higher Education Wales, told us that his organisation would “certainly be inputting into the discussion directly through Universities UK” but that there would also need to be “an engagement between the Welsh Assembly Government and DIUS”.177 Ms Wilkinson, Director, Higher Education Wales told us in June that her organisation was not aware of any specific engagement between the Welsh Assembly Government and the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and that it was not clear how the English work might inform the Assembly Government’s own review.178 The First Minister told us that he had asked for “a very early sight of and a very early discussion on what you are thinking of doing in England” because it could have a very significant effect on “the viability of the Universities’ cross-border flows of students”.179
99. The Minister of State at the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills, stated that part of the work of his Department’s review would be to look at the effect of the first three years of variable tuition fees within England and that as part of that the review team
175 http://www.dius.gov.uk/policy/he-debate.html 176 Ev 154 177 Q 742 178 Q 746 179 Q 602
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would want to look at the effect so far on the devolved administrations. He commented that “What we need to ensure is that each of us is aware of the decisions that the other is taking and the impact of those”.180 With regard to the Welsh Assembly Government’s review of higher education he stated that:
What the Welsh Assembly Government does with its system is a matter for it. I am more than happy however, either at ministerial level or at official level, to talk about our system and the way that, frankly, since the introduction for example of variable fees the system is working well …181
100. However, Professor Teresa Rees suggested that merely seeking better communication between the reviews in Wales and England was insufficient,182 and that what was really required was “more strategic thinking”183 and a coordinated UK approach:
I think it is a strange place to start to look at the expansion of higher education in just one of the countries …184
…there are responsibilities at UK level for higher education and if you are making a decision about expanding the sector then it is very strange to do that in just one country… why not discuss the issue with the other ministers for higher education and say should we do this at a UK level?185
101. The higher education sector in Wales is less than a tenth the size of England’s. According to Universities UK, in August 2008 there were 12 higher education institutions and 66,055 full-time undergraduate students in Wales compared to 133 higher education institutions and 985,810 full-time undergraduates in England.186 Professor Rees explained that given the relative sizes of the higher education sectors in Wales and England, decisions in England inevitably had a significant impact on the Welsh sector:
The cross-border flows are terribly sensitive and if you have a policy on one side of the border —and it would be England because it is so much bigger—that can have an incredible effect in Wales … any tinkering with policies can either bankrupt three Welsh institutions or make it very difficult for access students in Wales to compete with very highly qualified students coming across the border from England. I think, therefore, that it is the responsibility of the ministers for education in the four countries to think about these issues from a UK perspective. It does not mean that higher education should not be devolved, but you cannot have one country making a decision, particularly England, and saying “You can do what you like in the other
180 Q 929 181 Q 930 182 Q 948 183 Q 948 184 Q 978 185 Q 979 186 Higher Education in Facts and Figures, Universities UK, Summer 2008
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countries” because that decision affects the other countries and in particular Wales.187
Higher Education Wales agreed, stating that:
Because we are part of a UK system of higher education, and that is the way … we are perceived globally, if there are major changes … either in policy or in funding in England, then that will have a profound impact on our competitive position in Wales.188
102. Professor Charlie Jeffrey, University of Edinburgh, when describing some of the findings of his research programme on devolution and constitutional change, observed that the UK had a structure of devolution which was “unusually open to far-reaching policy variation and lacks the mechanisms employed elsewhere to balance divergent territorial preferences with overarching state-wide concerns”.189 With regard to mechanisms for cross-border coordination, he concluded that:
The UK’s system of post-devolution intergovernmental relations is extraordinarily underdeveloped. It would be difficult to assess it as fit for purpose. The UK does have codified arrangements—but these in most cases are not used. Intergovernmental relations instead work typically through ad hoc, case-by-case interactions among different and changing groups of officials.190
Universities UK came to a similar view:
The UK government’s policymaking process often considers devolved concerns late, or not at all and liaison remains undeveloped. Greater clarity in the UK Government about devolved and non-devolved matters is needed, with more systematic liaison and recognition of the impact of the financial systems and the anomalies they can create.191
103. Higher Education Wales noted that although the three higher education funding councils met regularly and frequently, it was unaware of formal regular and frequent meetings of senior higher education officials in the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills, the Welsh Assembly Government and the Scottish Government at which emerging policy developments in the three home nations could be systematically discussed.192 Higher Education Wales suggested that “Direct discussion between the four Higher Education Ministers is … a key priority to ensure a basic level of policy coordination” and suggested that the coordination of higher education policy across the
187 Q 968 188 Q 743 189 Ev 198 190 Ev 198 191 Devolution and higher education, Universities UK, December 2008, p8 192 Ev 154
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UK should be a top priority for the Joint Ministerial Committee over the next 18 months.193
104. The Minister of State at the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills, told us that there was already “a good deal of communication” between officials in his Department and those in the devolved administrations.194 However, he agreed that there might be scope for more formalised Ministerial discussions and stated that he was considering the possibility of establishing formal bi-annual meetings with counterparts in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland to discuss aspects of further education, higher education and research policy.195 He conceded that:
… in addition to official level contacts, I agree that there may be scope for more formalised Ministerial discussions. I suggested in my oral evidence that I should add formal bi-annual meetings with the Welsh Assembly Government to existing contacts. I can see a benefit in also exploring this idea with counterparts in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and will put a proposal to them after the recess. I believe a targeted ministerial meeting covering aspects of FE, HE and Research Policy would be a more appropriate mechanism than using the Joint Ministerial Committee, which I do not believe is the appropriate forum for seeing consensus or making agreements on policies.196
The Minister also accepted that greater transparency about meetings being held between the devolved administrations and UK ministers, and the subject matter of those meetings, could be beneficial, provided that it did not inhibit more ad hoc liaison.197 In order to encourage better joint working, we suggest a greater use of secondments between the two government departments as well as between funding bodies on both sides of the border.
105. Some of the responsibilities of the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills are UK-wide and others relate only to England. Our evidence suggests that this situation has given rise to confusion, both within and outside the Department. Welsh interests are not being adequately taken into account when formulating UK policy, and UK policies are overly based on English interests. We recommend that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills establishes processes to ensure that the territorial extent of any policy is clearly identified and communicated by officials before any developments to it are proposed and that this should be done in consultation with the Wales Office and the Welsh Assembly Government.
106. With regard to the development of higher education policy, we were told that there are a number of opportunities for officials of all administrations to meet and share information, but there appears to be no framework to ensure that future strategy is developed with due regard to the interdependencies of the higher education sectors of
193 Ev 155 194 Ev 135 195 Ev 135 196 Ev 135 197 Q 910
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the four nations. We saw no evidence of any clear process for considering the implications for the devolved administrations before decisions about policies for England were made. Because of its relative size, changes to the higher education sector in England will inevitably have an impact throughout the rest of the UK. Policy decisions must be taken in the knowledge of the likely consequences on both sides of the border. We recommend that the Department ensures that the devolved administrations are fully consulted before any further decisions are made with regard to future higher education policy in England, and that any future reviews routinely include this type of consultation as a matter of course. We look to the Wales Office to ensure that this happens.
107. Occasional and ad hoc meetings serve a useful purpose in exchanging information about current issues, but there is also a need to establish better protocols and relationships to ensure that the Government’s policymaking process routinely considers devolved interests at an early stage. We recommend that until any alternative structure is put in place, the coordination of higher education policy should be a top priority for the Joint Ministerial Committee, and that information about its discussions is made publicly available.
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 45
4 Conclusion
108. Throughout all the strands of our cross-border inquiry, our evidence has suggested that the decision-making process on each side of the border needs to be more coordinated, more coherent and more transparent. Democratic devolution means that decisions should be taken in England and Wales in the best interests of the local population. This does not mean, however, that governments on either side of the border should close their eyes to the consequences of their decisions on the population of the UK as a whole, particularly those living in close proximity to the border itself. We have found clear evidence that a better interface between government departments and the Welsh Assembly Government would be to the benefit of students and education staff both in Wales and in England.
109. The Welsh Assembly Government has chosen to invest less in higher education than the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills has in England and the consequences of this are increasingly evident in competition for students, the strength of the institutions and capacity for research. We note the Minister’s willingness to address these issues,198 many of them identified by Professor Merfyn Jones’ review.199 The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills appears to be pressing ahead with strategic changes to higher education policy, with little regard for the consequences for the devolved nations, and little consultation. The role of the Wales Office is to be the voice of Wales in Westminster, but with regard to the development of higher education policy it has failed to make the UK Government factor Wales into its planning. Equally, neither the Welsh Assembly Government nor HEFCW appear to recognise the importance of the Wales Office in raising Welsh higher education policy and funding issues at the UK level.
110. In addition, the approach of the research councils is blind to the social and regeneration consequences of their decisions. Unless there is a more active acknowledgement of Wales by the UK Government, better coordination with the Welsh Assembly Government and an increased awareness within the funding bodies of the UK dimensions of their decisions, all of these factors add up to a gloomy prospect for Welsh higher education.
198 Statement by the Welsh Assembly Government, 25 November 2008, Higher Education, Jane Hutt, Minister for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills. 199 http://new.wales.gov.uk/news/topic/education/2008/2371870/?lang=en
46 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
Conclusions and recommendations
Further Education 1. Given that there was strong objection at the time to further education being taken away from local authorities in Wales, the role of local authorities should be reconsidered in Wales in the context of the Webb Report and policy developments which flow from it. (Paragraph 5)
2. In the further education sector, there is now a significant policy divergence between Wales and England. The different policy and funding priorities result in different opportunities and challenges for learners in the two nations. (Paragraph 10)
3. We regard both sets of funding guidance as unhelpful and inappropriate and urge all authorities to see ease of access across borders, including access across regional borders within England, as something to be encouraged. (Paragraph 12)
4. We are not entirely convinced that cross-border arrangements are satisfactory as they stand as they seem more focussed on the convenience of providers than the objective of inspiring would-be students. (Paragraph 15)
5. Again, ‘need’ seems an unduly restrictive concept and the wishes of students and their ability to gain access to the right course for their personal aims and those of their employers should be paramount. (Paragraph 16)
6. There is a not only a need for some further education learners to cross the border between Wales and England to attend college, but it should be welcomed and encouraged. Geographical convenience for those living close to the border, or a wish to attend a specialist course which is not available locally and conveniently in the learner’s home country are not the only reasons for crossing the border. There are advantages to colleges and learners on both sides of the border if this type of cross- border provision is made available when required and driven by learner and employer choice rather than by regulation. The evidence suggests to us that some processes to enable this to operate are in place, but that the border does act as a barrier, or at least as a perceived barrier, to colleges in their recruitment and to students in their search for the right course. We recommend that the Learning and Skills Council and the Welsh Assembly Government take steps to improve the level of cooperation, and that they give due consideration to cross-border issues when reviewing coverage and student demand in respect of further education provision on both sides of the border, particularly when local authorities in England take over responsibilities which currently rest with the Learning and Skills Council. In addition, we recommend that they encourage further education institutions to provide information to all potential or prospective learners, bearing in mind that the nearest convenient college or nearest provider of specialist courses could be across the border. (Paragraph 17)
7. Sector Skills Councils play a key role with regard to consistency and transferability of skills throughout the UK. We believe that they should play a bigger role in coordinating cross-border issues for employers arising from policy divergences. We
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 47
are not convinced that the Sector Skills Councils are adequately resourced to fulfil their role, particularly when taking into account the need for each Sector Skills Council to have the capacity to give due regard to territorial differences in skills policies. (Paragraph 24)
8. The evidence suggests that at least some aspects of the Train to Gain scheme are working better than the Workforce Development Fund. One advantage of devolution is that the different administrations can learn from each other’s successes and failures and we suggest that the Welsh Assembly Government might consider the lessons to be learned from the implementation of Train to Gain. In particular, the Workforce Development Fund should be more actively advertised and better funded. (Paragraph 31)
9. Employers need clearer information about the government training schemes available on each side of the border. This is especially important for smaller employers in border areas and employers with sites in both Wales and England. We recommend that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Welsh Assembly Government work together to ensure that employers understand the support available to them, how they can gain access to that support and to treat the border as an opportunity for comparison and cross-fertilisation of best practice rather than as a barrier. (Paragraph 32)
10. Given the relatively small size of many further education colleges in Wales, we believe that it is essential to aim at the highest quality and that further education colleges must be encouraged to work with higher education institutions and for such cooperation to be required rather than encouraging separate development. This is particularly important in view of the recent change of course signalled by a Ministerial announcement that further education colleges in Wales may be given powers to award foundation degrees. (Paragraph 37)
11. There is bound to be some divergence in qualification systems and apprenticeship programmes between Wales and England and the proposed Apprenticeships Bill seems likely to widen these. This creates further problems for employers whose businesses are close to, or straddle the border. A lack of clarity with regard to the geographical extent of the Draft Apprenticeships Bill suggests to us that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills paid inadequate regard to the implications of devolution when developing its apprenticeships policies. This is unacceptable. We recommend that the Department works more closely with the Welsh Assembly Government when it comes to drafting the final version of the Bill. Similarly, it is important for the Welsh Assembly Government to engage with and seek to influence the Department at an early stage of policy development. In the final analysis, the overriding objective should be to equip learners with a qualification that is recognised on both sides of the border. (Paragraph 42)
12. Our inquiry has persuaded us that there is a need for greater joint working to consider the impact of proposed new policies relating to further education on both sides of the border, before decisions are made. The evidence shows that there is also a need for better and more timely communication of policies to employers, so that they can consider how any changes will affect their businesses and to enable them to
48 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
influence the design of courses and qualifications. In particular, officials in Wales and both in Whitehall and at regional level in England need to be outward looking and sensitive to the realities of our long and porous border. It should be a cause for celebration and cooperation rather than an obstacle to efficiency and effectiveness. (Paragraph 46)
13. Finally, there is a need for greater transparency in the way that the Welsh Assembly Government and the UK Government and their respective agencies collaborate with emphasis on recognising the advantages of co-operation as well as distinctiveness and divergence. (Paragraph 47)
Higher Education 14. Most aspects of higher education policy development are now devolved, and each of the four nations has distinctive approaches and priorities for its higher education sector. Nevertheless, the benefits to all of maintaining consistently high standards in higher education institutions throughout the UK and the existence of other common interests such as shared markets for staff and student recruitment mean that in practice there continues to be a high level of interdependency between the nations. The higher education sector in England is much larger than that in Wales, and whilst Wales has the powers to develop its own policies, it remains in a number of significant respects subject to the consequences of policy changes across the border in England. (Paragraph 53)
15. Student flows from England to Wales are very significant for Welsh higher education institutions and for the Welsh economy. Although it appears that increasing numbers of Welsh-domiciled students are choosing to study in Wales, within the UK Wales has the highest proportion of full-time higher education students coming from outside the country. Policy decisions made in England which alter the pattern of student flows, whether as an intended or unintended consequence, could have a major impact on Wales. Similarly, decisions of the Welsh Assembly Government need to take account of the reality of choices made by would-be students and the health of Welsh higher education institutions. (Paragraph 60)
16. Differences in spending priorities between the governments in Wales and in England have led to a funding gap, estimated on 2005/06 figures to be £61 million, between the amount which the higher education sector in Wales receives compared to what it would receive if it were funded on the same basis as the higher education sector in England. Witnesses told us that if this funding disparity were to continue, the higher education sector in Wales would become unable to compete effectively with institutions in the UK and other European Union nations and that this would limit its ability to contribute to a growing economy in Wales. (Paragraph 65)
17. The introduction of a matched fundraising scheme for universities in England, and the absence of any equivalent scheme in Wales, will inevitably increase the funding disparity between England and Wales and the advantages of such a strategy should be explored by the Welsh Assembly Government. (Paragraph 73)
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 49
18. Witnesses expressed concerns about the decision to merge the responsibilities of the Medical Research Council, which has a UK-wide remit, with the National Institute for Health Research, whose remit covers England only. We recommend that the newly formed UK Office for the Strategic Coordination of Health Research implements procedures to ensure that the views and priorities of health researchers in Wales are fully taken into account when considering its strategic approach to clinical research across the UK. (Paragraph 75)
19. We have been assured that the necessary arrangements are in place to enable the funding councils of Wales and England to support cross-border collaborative projects. We are supportive of such projects and believe that they could help foster better cross-border cooperation and as a consequence, potentially improved research funding in Wales. We recommend that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Welsh Assembly Government monitor this issue so as to ensure that joint funding is provided to appropriate projects. (Paragraph 79)
20. It is clear that the higher education sector in Wales receives a smaller share of UK research funding than would be expected from its relative size. Witnesses have suggested various explanations for this, including the possibility that the lower level of higher education infrastructure investment in Wales is compromising the quality of research bids; the fact that there is a greater proportion of smaller institutions in Wales; the possibility that Welsh interests are inadequately represented when selecting successful research bids; and the possibility that current systems for awarding funding favour established institutions with a proven track record rather than ones with future potential. (Paragraph 86)
21. Research investment brings significant economic benefits to the surrounding localities. Higher education institutions in Wales will be disadvantaged if the funding gap continues to grow, which will make it increasingly difficult for them to compete on an equal basis with English institutions for research funding, with the prospect of a downward spiral developing. This would have a significant and negative impact on the economy of Wales. We believe that the UK-wide distribution of research funding by the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills should take account of the relative needs of different parts of the UK for such economic investment. However, it must be acknowledged that it will be harder to attract research funding if the funding gap referred to in paragraph 65 continues. We recommend that the Department prepares and publishes a report on the varying levels of research investment across the different nations and regions of the UK, together with an explanation of the variation and steps which could be taken to achieve a more equitable distribution, giving consideration to each of the factors listed in paragraph 86 above. (Paragraph 87)
22. We believe that research councils should not just follow excellence, but must also foster it. Higher education funding should not be based on a winner takes all model. We support the suggestion of Universities UK that, given the economic impact of research spending, funds should be made available at a UK level to support the development of research capacity in economically deprived areas of the four nations. We recommend that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills makes available a specific allocation of research funds to develop the research capacity of
50 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
higher education institutions outside the established elite to enable them to gain a track record of success and so be able to compete more effectively for research funds from other sources. (Paragraph 88)
23. Whilst there are undoubtedly a number of communications mechanisms in place between the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Welsh Assembly Government, it is clear that these have not been sufficiently effective. We fear that the liaison between the two departments is of a formal nature only and steps need to be taken to create a relationship which develops into a true partnership. We heard evidence of instances where UK policy had been developed with little attention given to Welsh issues, and of policy developed for England without consideration of the impact it would have on Wales and vice versa. We look to the Wales Office to improve communications and ensure that they are fit for purpose. There should also be better liaison between the Wales Office, the Welsh Assembly Government and HEFCW. (Paragraph 93)
24. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills is responsible for science policy throughout the UK and must ensure that all of the four nations benefit from its science investments. The Welsh Assembly Government has defined its own science priorities for Wales but has provided no specific additional funding to pursue these aims. There is a clear risk that neither body will give sufficient priority to science investment in Wales, despite the obvious benefits to the economy there. We recommend that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills explores with the Welsh Assembly Government the potential for a joint science investment fund or a joint strategic science site in Wales. (Paragraph 96)
25. In order to encourage better joint working, we suggest a greater use of secondments between the two government departments as well as between funding bodies on both sides of the border. (Paragraph 104)
26. Some of the responsibilities of the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills are UK-wide and others relate only to England. Our evidence suggests that this situation has given rise to confusion, both within and outside the Department. Welsh interests are not being adequately taken into account when formulating UK policy, and UK policies are overly based on English interests. We recommend that the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills establishes processes to ensure that the territorial extent of any policy is clearly identified and communicated by officials before any developments to it are proposed and that this should be done in consultation with the Wales Office and the Welsh Assembly Government. (Paragraph 105)
27. With regard to the development of higher education policy, we were told that there are a number of opportunities for officials of all administrations to meet and share information, but there appears to be no framework to ensure that future strategy is developed with due regard to the interdependencies of the higher education sectors of the four nations. We saw no evidence of any clear process for considering the implications for the devolved administrations before decisions about policies for England were made. Because of its relative size, changes to the higher education sector in England will inevitably have an impact throughout the rest of the UK.
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 51
Policy decisions must be taken in the knowledge of the likely consequences on both sides of the border. We recommend that the Department ensures that the devolved administrations are fully consulted before any further decisions are made with regard to future higher education policy in England, and that any future reviews routinely include this type of consultation as a matter of course. We look to the Wales Office to ensure that this happens. (Paragraph 106)
28. Occasional and ad hoc meetings serve a useful purpose in exchanging information about current issues, but there is also a need to establish better protocols and relationships to ensure that the Government’s policymaking process routinely considers devolved interests at an early stage. We recommend that until any alternative structure is put in place, the coordination of higher education policy should be a top priority for the Joint Ministerial Committee, and that information about its discussions is made publicly available. (Paragraph 107)
29. Throughout all the strands of our cross-border inquiry, our evidence has suggested that the decision-making process on each side of the border needs to be more coordinated, more coherent and more transparent. Democratic devolution means that decisions should be taken in England and Wales in the best interests of the local population. This does not mean, however, that governments on either side of the border should close their eyes to the consequences of their decisions on the population of the UK as a whole, particularly those living in close proximity to the border itself. We have found clear evidence that a better interface between government departments and the Welsh Assembly Government would be to the benefit of students and education staff both in Wales and in England. (Paragraph 108)
30. The Welsh Assembly Government has chosen to invest less in higher education than the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills has in England and the consequences of this are increasingly evident in competition for students, the strength of the institutions and capacity for research. We note the Minister’s willingness to address these issues, many of them identified by Professor Merfyn Jones’ review. The Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills appears to be pressing ahead with strategic changes to higher education policy, with little regard for the consequences for the devolved nations, and little consultation. The role of the Wales Office is to be the voice of Wales in Westminster, but with regard to the development of higher education policy it has failed to make the UK Government factor Wales into its planning. Equally, neither the Welsh Assembly Government nor HEFCW appear to recognise the importance of the Wales Office in raising Welsh higher education policy and funding issues at the UK level. (Paragraph 109)
31. In addition, the approach of the research councils is blind to the social and regeneration consequences of their decisions. Unless there is a more active acknowledgement of Wales by the UK Government, better coordination with the Welsh Assembly Government and an increased awareness within the funding bodies of the UK dimensions of their decisions, all of these factors add up to a gloomy prospect for Welsh higher education. (Paragraph 110)
52 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
Formal Minutes
Tuesday 16 December 2008
Members present:
Dr Hywel Francis, in the Chair
Mr David Jones Alun Michael Mr Martyn Jones Hywel Williams
The Committee discussed informally the Chairman’s draft Report.
Draft Report (The provision of cross border public services for Wales: Further and Higher Education) proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 110 read and agreed to.
Summary agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the First Report of the Committee to the House.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
[Adjourned until Tuesday 13 January at 10 a.m.
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 53
Witnesses
Tuesday 17 June 2008 Page
Ms Sara Mogel, Principal, West Cheshire College (and nominated representative of the Association of Colleges), and Mr David Jones, Principal, Deeside College Ev 1
Dr John Graystone, Chief Executive, fforwm, and Mr John Stephenson, Principal, Coleg Powys Ev 7
Tuesday 24 June 2008
Professor Merfyn Jones, Chair, Higher Education Wales (HEW) and Ms Amanda Wilkinson, Director, Higher Education Wales Ev 15
Professor Philip Gummett, Chief Executive, Higher Education Funding Council for Wales Ev 21
Tuesday 8 July 2008
Mr Alan Woods, CEO, Skills for Justice, Mr Richard Jones, Country Manager, Skills for Justice, Ms Sue Hunter, Development and QA Manager, Skills for Ev 29 Justice and Ms Michelle Creed, Director, Wales, Lifelong Learning UK
Professor Ian Diamond, Chief Executive, Economic and Social Research Ev 38 Council and Chair of RCUK Executive Group
Tuesday 15 July 2008
Bill Rammell MP, Minister of State, Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education, Mr Michael Hipkins, Director, Student Finance Strategy, Mr Ashley Malster, Deputy Head, Economic Impact, Science and Research Ev 45 Group, and Mr Matthew Hamnett, Deputy Director, Adult Skills Directorate, Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills
Professor Teresa Rees, Chair of the Rees reviews of Higher Education and Pro Vice Chancellor, Cardiff University; Professor Michael Scott, Principal Ev 52 and Mr Andrew Parry, Head of Corporate Communications, NEWI; and Professor Wynn Jones, Principal, Harper Adams University College
54 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
Tuesday 7 October 2008
Mr David Rosser, Director, and Mr Leighton Jenkins, Head of Policy, CBI Ev 63 Wales
Mr Michael Fleming, Head of Employment Training and Competencies, and Mr Gary Griffiths, Manager for Apprenticeships and Vocational Ev 70 Competencies, Airbus UK
List of written evidence
1 Memorandum submitted by Aberystwyth University Ev 74 2 Memorandum submitted by Airbus UK Ev 76 3 Memorandum submitted by the Alliance of Sector Skills Councils Ev 81 4 Appendix 1 Lifelong Learning UK Ev 84 5 Appendix 2 Institute of Motor Industry (imi-motor) Ev 90 6 Appendix 3 Goskills Ev 91 7 Appendix 4 Financial Services Skills Council (FSSC) Ev 94 8 Appendix 5 Creative and Cultural Skills Council Ev 95 9 Appendix 6 Summit Skills Council for Building Services Engineering Ev 95 10 Appendix 7 Skillset Ev 96 11 Appendix 8 Skills for Justice Ev 99 12 Appendix 9 SEMTA (Science, Engineering And Manufacturing Technologies Sectors) Council Ev 100 13 Appendix 10 Asset Skills Council (Property Services, Housing Facilities Management And Cleaning Industries) Ev 102 14 Appendix 11 Lantra Council (Land Based And Environmental Sector) Ev 104 15 Appendix 12 Cogent Council (Chemicals, Pharmaceuticals, Nuclear, Oil and Gas, Petroleum And Polymers) Ev 105 16 Appendix 13 Energy & Utility Skills Council Ev 105 17 Appendix 14 Government Skills Council Ev 107 18 Appendix 15 SkillsActive Council Ev 108 19 Memorandum submitted by the Association of Colleges Ev 111 16 Memorandum submitted by The Right Reverend Anthony Priddis, MA, Dip Theol, FCEM, Bishop of Hereford Ev 114 17 Memorandum submitted by Cardiff University Ev 114 18 Memorandum submitted by CBI Cymru/Wales Ev 116 19 Memorandum submitted by the Children's Commissioner for Wales Ev 118 20 Memorandum submitted by the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills (DIUS) Ev 119 21 Supplementary memorandum submitted by the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills Ev 134 22 Letter from Bill Rammell MP, Minister of State for Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education to the Chairman Ev 135
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 55
23 Memorandum submitted by fforwm Ev 136 24 Supplementary memorandum submitted by fforwm and The Association of Colleges Ev 140 25 Supplementary memorandum submitted by fforwm Ev 143 26 Memorandum submitted by Mark Harper MP Ev 143 27 Memorandum submitted by The Higher Education Funding Council for Wales (HEFCW) Ev 144 28 Memorandum submitted by Higher Education Wales Ev 150 29 Memorandum submitted by Professor Deian Hopkin, Vice Chancellor and Chief Executive, London South Bank University Ev 155 30 Memorandum submitted by Professor Dylan Jones, Head of School of Psychology, Cardiff University Ev 162 31 Memorandum submitted by Professor E W Jones, Principal, Harper Adams University College Ev 164 32 Memorandum submitted by the Letterkenny Institute of Technology Ev 166 33 Memorandum submitted by the Lifelong Learning Network for Herefordshire & Worcestershire Ev 167 34 Memorandum submitted by the National Institute of Adult Continuing Education (NIACE) Dysgu Cymru Ev 167 35 Memorandum submitted by Professor Teresa Rees, Pro Vice Chancellor (Research), Cardiff University Ev 171 36 Supplementary evidence from Professor Teresa Rees CBE, Pro Vice Chancellor, Cardiff University Ev 172 37 Memorandum submitted by Research Councils UK (RCUK) Ev 173 38 Supplementary memorandum submitted by Research Councils UK (RCUK) Ev 178 39 Memorandum submitted by Professor Michael Scott, Principal, the North East Wales Institute of Higher Education (NEWI) Ev 180 40 Memorandum submitted by Swansea University Ev 183 41 Memorandum submitted by Universities UK Ev 185 42 Memorandum submitted by the University of Wales Institute, Cardiff (UWIC) Ev 185 43 Memorandum submitted by the Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills, Welsh Assembly Government Ev 186 44 Letter from Rt Hon John Denham MP Ev 197 45 Memorandum submitted by Professor Charlie Jeffery, University of Edinburgh Ev 198
56 Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education
List of Reports from the Committee during the current Parliament
Session 2008-09 First Report Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: HC 57 Further and higher education Incorporating HC 401 viii-xii, Session 2007-08
Session 2007-08 First Report Energy in Wales: follow up inquiry HC 177 Second Report The proposed Legislative Competence Order in HC 44 Council on additional learning needs Third Report Work of the Committee in 2007 HC 325 Fourth Report The proposed National Assembly for Wales HC 257 (Legislative Competence) Order in the field of social welfare 2008
Fifth Report The proposed draft National Assembly for Wales HC 576 (Legislative Competence) (social welfare and other fields) Order 2008 Sixth Report The provision of cross-border health services for HC 870 Wales: Interim Report Seventh Report The proposed draft National Assembly for Wales HC 812 (Legislative Competence) (Housing) Order 2008 First Special Report The proposed Legislative Competence Order in HC 377 Council on additional learning needs: Government response to the Committee’s Second Report of Session 2007-08 Second Special Report Energy in Wales – follow-up inquiry: Government HC 435 Response to the Committee’s First Report of Session 2007-08 Third Special Report The proposed National Assembly for Wales HC 715 (Legislative Competence) Order in the field of social welfare 2008: Government Response to the Committee’s Fourth Report of Session 2007-08
Session 2006-07 First Report Work of the Committee in 2005-06 HC 291 Second Report Legislative Competence Orders in Council HC 175 Third Report Welsh Prisoners in the Prison Estate HC 74 First Special Report Government Response to the Committee’s Second HC 986 Report of Session 2006-07, Legislative Competence Orders in Council
Cross-border provision of public services for Wales: Further and higher education 57
Session 2005-06 First Report Government White Paper: Better Governance for HC 551 Wales Second Report Proposed Restructuring of the Police Forces in Wales HC 751 Third Report Energy in Wales HC 876-I Oral and written Energy in Wales HC 876-II Evidence Fourth Report Future of RAF St Athan HC 1129 Fifth Report Current Restructuring of the Police Forces in Wales HC 1418 Oral and written NHS Dentistry in Wales HC 771-i Evidence First Special Report Government Response to the Committee’s Second HC 433 and Third Reports of Session 2004–05, Manufacturing and Trade in Wales and Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Bill Second Special Report Government Response to the Committee's Fourth HC 514 Report of Session 2004-05, Police Service, Crime and Anti-Social Behaviour in Wales Third Special Report Government Response to the Committee's First HC 839 Report of Session 2005-06, Government White Paper: Better Governance for Wales Fourth Special Report Government Response to the Committee's Second HC 1431 Report of Session 2005-06, Proposed Restructuring of the Police Forces in Wales Fifth Special Report Government Response to the Committee's Third HC 1656 Report of Session 2005-06, Energy in Wales Sixth Special Report Government Response to the Committee's Fourth HC 1657 Report of Session 2005-06, Future of RAF St Athan Seventh Special Government Response to the Committee's Fifth HC 1695 Report Report of Session 2005-06, Current Restructuring of the Police Forces in Wales
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Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence
Taken before the Welsh Affairs Committee
on Tuesday 17 June 2008
Members present
Dr Hywel Francis, in the Chair
Nia GriYth Alun Michael Mrs Siaˆn C James Albert Owen Mr David Jones
Witnesses: Ms Sara Mogel, Principal, West Cheshire College (and nominated representative of the Association of Colleges), and Mr David Jones, Principal, Deeside College, gave evidence.
Q637 Chairman: Good morning. Welcome to the diVerent for a Welsh-domiciled learner than it is for Welsh AVairs Committee. For the record, could you an English-domiciled learner. They do not cause us introduce yourselves, please. issues in that sort of way. Ms Mogel: I am Sara Mogel, I am the Principal of West Cheshire College. Q640 Nia GriYth: Do you know whether the fact Mr David Jones: My name is David Jones, I am the that the Lifelong Learning Networks scheme, which Principal of Deeside College in Flintshire. I understand does not operate in Wales and, therefore, Welsh-domiciled students cannot access that, in any way prevents them progressing to higher Q638 Chairman: Thank you very much. Could I education with you and attending the English begin by asking a very straightforward question. colleges to do that? According to the statistics you gave us, West Ms Mogel: I do not think it prevents them Cheshire College is the English college with the progressing. One of the major advantages of the greatest number of Welsh-domiciled students. What Lifelong Learning Networks is the planning and the would you consider, other than the obvious reason, strategy behind higher education particularly, as to be the explanation for that? you say, in FE colleges so the development of Ms Mogel: As you say, there is an obvious reason foundation degrees, for example, is done as a co- that one of our campuses is a mile from the border, operative. Probably there is some disadvantage to therefore for many students we are their nearest Welsh learners that their needs and aspirations are college. I think that is one of the reasons. There are not involved in that sort of development activity. It also quite good transport links, particularly into does not actually stop them progressing on to higher Chester but also by train into Ellesmere Port. It education. I guess there is also the issue that we are often is the easy route for some of the nearer students not picking up the expertise from sister colleges that to come to. The other reason is that they come to us just happen to be across the border when we are sometimes for specialist provision that they cannot having a look at how we are developing that receive elsewhere. For example, we do a lot of provision. pharmacy provision and we get hospital pharmacists coming to us from North Wales. We do an awful lot Y of work with employers, we are a specialist Q641 Nia Gri th: So do you think more could be vocational college and one of the first 26 colleges to done in that respect? be awarded the Training Quality Standard for Ms Mogel: I do think there is an opportunity there to have a look at how the Lifelong Learning Excellence in working with employers. Probably Networks draw their boundaries, if you like. I know quite a lot of them are living in Wales but actually that makes life quite complicated but it might be coming to us via their employers. You have got to worth having a review of that system. remember that does not necessarily mean they are coming on to the campus because over 40% of our students do not actually learn at the campus, they Q642 Alun Michael: Could I just quote one thing learn in their workplace. from what you say. You say that Welsh-domiciled learners are “pushed to study at Welsh colleges even if less convenient or less suitable” and that English Q639 Nia GriYth: Following on from that, does the colleges are restricted in their ability to recruit and number of Welsh-domiciled students that you have tailor their courses to local students. Do you have pose any challenges or particular issues for West factual evidence of that because it is clearly quite a Cheshire College? serious allegation? Ms Mogel: They do not really pose us any major Ms Mogel: Can I take this in two parts, one on issues. I guess our real issue is that adult funding in recruitment, which I will come back to. You are England has declined and, therefore, that is an issue quoting from the Association of Colleges’ report. I for all of our adult learners, but it is not necessarily do not think I would have personally used the word Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
Ev 2 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
17 June 2008 Ms Sara Mogel and Mr David Jones
“pushed”. If you want more evidence on that then I Ms Mogel: We provide information openly. For am sure the Association of Colleges could provide example, we have a website and anybody can do you with more evidence in writing. that, but we know that some of the active things we do on the English side of the border, such as our Q643 Alun Michael: With respect, did we not ask the arrangements for working with schools, our Association of Colleges to give evidence and you arrangements with talking to employers about their are it? up-skilling needs, some of the activities that take Ms Mogel: I am not sure that I am “it” in that I place to try to raise the profile of Lifelong Learning can— on the English side of the border, I am prevented from doing. If I did those activities on the Welsh side Q644 Alun Michael: It was the Association of of the border then my funding would be in jeopardy. Colleges who thought it would be best for the evidence to be provided by you. Q650 Alun Michael: What changes would you like to Ms Mogel: I personally do not have any evidence of see made, or do you think would remove undue students being pushed to study in Welsh colleges. restriction on what you can do? Ms Mogel: One of the things that would be helpful Q645 Alun Michael: In that case, could we is if we were able, both Welsh and English colleges, respectfully ask you as you are their representative because the Welsh colleges also have some to ask them to supplement those comments? restrictions, to fully inform everybody of what Ms Mogel: I will do that. I think the real issue is opportunities are available. I do think that the about recruitment. You will know that in the watershed agreement on funding is clearer than the funding agreement we are told that we cannot recruit situation in terms of recruitment, which is strange specific cohorts, so we are not able to give but true. I also think that there is an issue about how information to learners who might be very close to the work with employers is funded and there is a very our college about the sort of opportunities that we strict regulation on how we are able to fund work oVer. For a student, what they need to do in order to with employers. Train to Gain funding is not make a decision is they need to have full and applicable for Welsh-based employers. Therefore, informed choice and those who are on the border we are in the strange situation where we can oVer currently do not have that because we are not able to English employers the advantage of Train to Gain do it. but we can cross the road to a Welsh employer who wants to work with us and we cannot oVer them that Q646 Alun Michael: What is the line between advantage. providing information and recruiting? Ms Mogel: I guess there is quite a fine line between Q651 Mr David Jones: I have a brief supplementary providing information and recruiting. Providing to Mr Jones. Do you have similar inhibitions on information allows people to make a decision on recruitment your side of the border? what is best for them in order to fulfil their potential Mr Jones: Not really. As Sara has said, the and achieve their ambition. If you do not know all information is out there, it is available, but we do not the opportunities that are available to you within actively recruit across the border. One of the first your area because of a line on a map then that limits things that comes to my mind when people talk what you might want to be able to do. In terms of about the border, as somebody who lives in recruiting, English border colleges cannot go into Denbighshire, works in Flintshire, does his shopping Welsh schools even if the college is closest to that in Chester and Wrexham and goes to watch football Welsh school. in Manchester, is what border? That is what it is like for the people on the ground and that is the reality Q647 Alun Michael: Can I be quite clear. Are you of it. People move across that border and the saying that the inhibition on recruitment is actually information is actively available. From my own preventing you providing information? college’s perspective, I do not feel that there is a great Ms Mogel: Yes. If we “actively recruit”, which is the deal of unhelpful competition. There is useful phrase, then we could be prevented from drawing competition in terms of the oVer that the colleges down funding. provide. Going back to one of the points Sara made at the start, there are a couple of areas where, for Q648 Alun Michael: Are you saying that actively instance, West Cheshire oVers specialities, things providing information is prevented by the restriction that we do not oVer, and equally we have areas, such on recruitment? Is that not carrying it a bit too far? as aerospace engineering, that they do not oVer. It Ms Mogel: I think it limits people’s choice. I would not be sensible to duplicate things on the understand why it happens, but it does seem a shame other side of the border just because the border that a line on a map that actually makes very little happens to be there on a piece of paper. diVerence to people’s travel has that implication for some students. Q652 Mr David Jones: I had aerospace particularly in mind because you have a great number of students Q649 Alun Michael: Let me put the question another from the English side of the border attending courses way. Are you being over-restrictive on yourselves if in your college. Presumably they are in great you are saying that a restriction on recruitment stops demand because it is the biggest industry in that part you providing information? of the world. How do you get information about the Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
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17 June 2008 Ms Sara Mogel and Mr David Jones courses that you oVer out to students in England? Ms Mogel: Obviously they are transferring for the Do you wait for them to approach you or do you younger learners, 16–19, to local authorities but actively go out and, if you like, peddle your wares? there is the Young People’s Learning Funding Mr Jones: I like to think I am fairly up to speed in Authority—I do not know if I have got the words terms of the electronic age, but compared to younger right—they are the people who will, if you like, make people I am clearly not, and in this day and age sure that clusters of authorities work together. How younger people are not naturally looking for a paper it will work, and this is still being worked through as prospectus. Yes, they do use them but perhaps their a consultation, I do think it is something that border mothers and fathers or employers might want to use colleges, both sides of the border, are going to have them first. When they want to know something, they to look at to make sure that it does not limit the say, “Let’s have a look for the website”. That is one opportunities for young people to learn what they aspect of it. Websites do not have boundaries, they want to learn where they want to learn it. In terms of just go over boundaries. The other thing is with a learning for adults, that will be a regional structure company like Airbus and the sector, they cross the and so it is possible that the North West Region, for border as well. Lots of people say that Airbus is in example, where we are, might then think about how it can strategically plan taking into account border Chester and we always point out that it is not, it is in issues. Because the consultation is about funding Broughton in North East Wales. Because they have post-16 learning in England it is not really raised in a big reach as an organisation people are looking out the consultation, though I think a lot of the English every year for the employment and apprenticeship V border colleges have raised it as an issue that needs opportunities that Airbus o ers. If you like, the to be addressed. I do not know whether the Welsh company itself is driving across the border. I think colleges have a view? a wider thing, which is of more interest to my own college, is about how you take that a step further. One of the things we are doing at the moment is Q654 Albert Owen: Specifically on the 16–19 year providing some training at Manchester Airport, olds, Mr Jones? Mr Jones: I am pleased that the border is there at the again linked to the aerospace sector, to do with moment actually with this proposal in place because maintaining aircraft and so on. We are developing I think we already have an overly complicated this through a link with our colleagues at Barry funding model in Wales that we struggle to College in South East Wales. Now, you could say, understand. Bringing in this new two tier “Why is a college in North East Wales operating out arrangement in England, or the proposal at least, of Manchester Airport”? It is because companies in and I am not an expert on it because, as I said, we that area are not getting what they want, so they are are very much funded through the Welsh model, I do coming to colleges like Deeside and saying, “Please, have concerns that it will make it over-complicated can you, on the back of the good name that we have, and also, perhaps, be a retrograde step in the sense V o er provision for ourselves?” West Cheshire that we would feel, as colleges, I am sure right across College also oVers diVerent types of courses at the UK, that since incorporation in 1993 there have Manchester not in competition with ourselves. The been great improvements in terms of quality overall issue of funding then crops up, how does a college produced by colleges, cost-eVectiveness and so on, from Wales operate and is able to deliver in meeting employer needs, and there is lots of evidence Manchester Airport? That often means that a for that and to step back to local authority type company will pay us cash, a price, rather than having arrangements perhaps would remove that a publicly funded supplement. Or, on other commercial cutting edge that has been at the heart of occasions, the way we find our way through the much of our success. complexity of funding models is to partner up with a provider, either a college or a private training Q655 Albert Owen: Do you think that the provider, in that region who is able to access consultation document should highlight cross- Learning and Skills Council funding in order that border issues? through an agreement with them we are able to Ms Mogel: I understand why it does not, but I think provide the learning opportunities for those it should have raised them. I would assume that the employers. If we did not do that there would be a issue is the same between the English and the really important part of the economy in that part of Scottish border as well. I think you will find that the England which would not be supported. consultees are raising it as an issue.
Q656 Albert Owen: It is interesting that you Q653 Albert Owen: This is a question for both taking mentioned England and Scotland, but the flow east- up the point that Mr Jones just said about funding west across Wales is greater than Scotland so it is a issues. The Government has issued a consultation bigger problem. paper to abolish the Learning and Skills Council and Ms Mogel: It is definitely. That has to do as much transfer the funding to local authorities, and you with transport links as with anything else. used the word “region”. Would transferring to local Mr Jones: I think it should be included, it is a factor. authorities help or hinder the process and further Where we need to improve more generally is in the complicate it in many ways in that you would be way that we plan even though there are some dealing with individual local authorities rather than diVerent priorities, diVerent funding models and so a Skills Council? on. Sara and I were talking about it before we came Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
Ev 4 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
17 June 2008 Ms Sara Mogel and Mr David Jones in. I think there are ways in which we can plan better issue if you are talking to someone who is perhaps on the ground to make sure that learners and linked to an employer, and I think there are some employers do not lose out because we are not diYculties there sometimes. Again, it links back to thinking about where we can maximise the potential Train to Gain, which Sara mentioned, which we do of resources right at day one. That is something not have in Wales, we have diVerent initiatives, so which is not just limited to issues across the Wales- potentially you could have an employer having the English border, I have to say within Wales itself same provision for his or her workforce but maybe there are already issues across local authorities and choosing to go one side of the border based on, if you so on. There are huge inconsistencies, for instance, like, the financial deal that a particular college or in transport and travel arrangements where you can another provider may oVer. go across the border in Wales and a 16–19 year old has to pay for travel where they would not in Q659 Albert Owen: DiVerent grants is not an issue? another area. Mr Jones: No. Most of the time we feel employers and the learners make their decisions on the basis of V Q657 Albert Owen: I am sure we will come on to reputation, quality and what they o er, and how those internal issues, but I want to stick on this they get it as well and they get it in the workplace, diVerence between across the border, and which is increasingly what employers want. particularly you mentioned, Mr Jones, a little earlier Chairman: Mr Michael wishes to ask a short about the funding and support mechanisms that are supplementary. in place. Do you think the students and potential students are able to get clear information of what is Q660 Alun Michael: Yes, and it may be that you will across the border at the moment? I was interested need to reply with supplementary evidence perhaps. about the web, but is that the main tool that careers There is something odd about the evidence from the oYcers can check the website or is it far more Association of Colleges in that it only tells us about complicated than that and do the funding issues and learners from Wales and the FE colleges in England, it does not tell us the other. We do have some the issues you talk about limit the opportunities V available to students in Wales to go and study in evidence from orwm, who we will be hearing from, but it seems to have been prepared on a quite England? V Mr Jones: I think the point I made about the website di erent basis, so there is no basis for comparison. is right, that is the way the youngsters themselves Also, you show a trend in turn which is a drop in will look for information. In terms of careers oYcers Wales-domiciled learners studying in colleges in and so on, they are often the first point of call England but no question of what the trend is the other way, if both are dropping or whether there is towards the end of a period in school, and I do not V know this for definite but I am sure that when careers adi erence. Could I ask for some coherent evidence oYcers come to schools and colleges with their bag from the Association of Colleges that makes a of prospectuses in North East Wales alongside the proper comparison on the same basis? Deeside College and the Yale College and the Welsh Ms Mogel: I am sure the Association of Colleges will provide you with further evidence.1 One of the major College of Horticulture there is a West Cheshire V College prospectus, I am sure it is in the information issues is the way that we are funded is very di erent that they have. I would imagine the approach that so, therefore, there is not a like-for-like comparison, they take would be that if a young person is based in if you like, in the same way. Flintshire and they get the feel for the type of course that they want to go on, they probably point them Q661 Alun Michael: I do not see how if you are at Eastern College as a starting point. I think that is simply giving evidence on the trends in relation to sensible because if you have got local provision it the home location, the domicile of students and the cuts out transport, transport costs, and I think there funding, the funding may be the cause of some of is an environmental aspect to that which in the those changes but the like-for-like is what is actually longer term we all need to take on board. Equally, I happening on the ground. am sure that if a careers oYcer or a careers teacher Ms Mogel: The reason for the drop in numbers is— was faced with a young person who was asking for something, and they knew that it was available at Q662 Alun Michael: With respect, I am not asking West Cheshire College I would expect them to refer about the reason. This was a supplementary them over the border to that college and in reality in question asking about facts. You have given us some that part of Wales and England it does not pose a big facts about one, can we have them both so we can problem. have the proper basis for comparison and the trend also on both sides? Ms Mogel: That is fine.2 Q658 Albert Owen: Would the diVerent funding mechanisms and regimes be explained to them? Q663 Albert Owen: I want to move on to staV Mr Jones: It would not because it is not something retention and recruitment, particularly from the that we would explain to students generally, West Cheshire College side. Do you have any particularly your 16–19 year old who is, in fact, problems in retaining or recruiting staV because of getting free full-time provision, it is not an issue. It higher salaries being paid across in Wales? is complicated enough for us as colleges to understand, we do not complicate it by explaining 1 Ev those issues to the learner. It may become more of an 2 Ev Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
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17 June 2008 Ms Sara Mogel and Mr David Jones
Ms Mogel: I think some English colleges have issues. the moment and not just, indeed, in Flintshire but in As West Cheshire College we have a very low a few other counties as well. There are other counties turnover of staV so, therefore, a low turnover is in North Wales where they already decided a relevant to whether they are moving on from us to number of years ago not to provide that funding. work in England or Wales or somewhere else. There While that is an issue for us, I do not feel that it is was an issue at the beginning when the Welsh something which has an impact on cross-border Assembly supported its colleges in Wales in closing issues. the salary gap between school staV and college staV. People that we lose, we do get people who will move Q668 Mrs James: You do not think that students sideways to do the same job but for more money in will make choices based on whether they get free Wales, so that is an issue. I think our other issue is transport or not, or help with their transport? more complex— Ms Mogel: Not necessarily in our area, but in other areas on the border certainly English colleges have Q664 Albert Owen: Sorry, move sideways, you mean found that and have taken up individual cases where move to a similar role? students have wanted to travel from Wales into Ms Mogel: A similar role across the border, so that England but cannot get the funding they would have if you teach in my college you will earn less than if got if they had stayed in Wales and have lost on you teach in Deeside College for doing the same role those occasions. That has not been an incident in my just because of the way the salaries are organised. particular college but it has been for other colleges.
Q669 Mrs James: Given your knowledge and Q665 Albert Owen: So that is an issue? awareness of this issue, if there is a problem are there Ms Mogel: It is an issue, but for my particular any changes or any recommendations or things that college it is quite a small issue because we have a low you think could be done better or ways that maybe turnover, I think it is probably a bigger issue for would help? other colleges. Mr Jones: In relation to transport?
Q666 Albert Owen: Do you have to have bonuses to Q670 Mrs James: Yes, please. keep people there? Mr Jones: I do think we need to have consistency. Ms Mogel: We do not do that. Whether other That lack of consistency is confusing and unfair as colleges do I cannot tell you, but we do not do that. well. I can see the point you are making in terms of The issue that we have found is because the salary are people making decisions based on maybe structure is diVerent and if somebody in Wales is transport being free to Deeside College, but I do not applying for a promoted post in England they may think that is an issue because the vast majority of our discover that actually they are on a much higher transport comes in from Wales to Deeside College, salary where they currently are, and therefore the so it is not as if we are bussing lots of people in from opportunity to progress to promoted posts is limited across the border. When times are tough in terms of for them, if they want to maintain their salary, to funding, it is very easy to say, “Let us stop transport, those colleges in Wales. That is probably the major let us stop paying travel”, but I think that is very issue rather than losing staV. short-sighted and lacking some strategy. In terms of Mr Jones: The thing I would add—which backs up the wider issues that need to be dealt with to do with what Sara has just said—is we are increasingly perhaps falling rolls and similar demographic issues finding for a whole range of diVerent roles at Deeside there should be a greater focus on reconfiguration in College that we are appointing from outside Wales. terms of colleges, schools and others. There could potentially be an answer that would allow us to deliver better and more cost-eVective education by Q667 Mrs James: You have already mentioned actually spending more money on travel and home-to-education transport and I want to take you transport and giving people easier access, albeit back to that. To what extent is the provision of providing that transport to deliver to a far more funding for home-to-education transport a coherently developed and designed network of significant factor when students are choosing which providers. college to go to? Ms Mogel: We are not funded for home-to-college transport at all, so it is quite a diYcult question for Q671 Alun Michael: Can I just ask whether your me to answer. The way that our students pay for catchment area is served by an eVective Wheels to their transport is through the Educational Work scheme given the cost-eVectiveness that they Maintenance Allowance and that has been a benefit have been shown to give? Is the border invisible in to students in our area. I think you will probably any such scheme on either side? have more to say on this issue, David? Mr Jones: I am sorry, I did not get the first part of Mr Jones: Yes. There are a range of diVerent set-ups your question. across North Wales. For instance, in Flintshire, where Deeside College is based, the local authority Q672 Alun Michael: Is your catchment area served still pays the travel costs of full-time 16–19 year olds, by an eVective Wheels to Work scheme? those attending schools, sixth forms and indeed the Mr Jones: By “Wheels to Work” what specifically colleges. That is something which is under review at are you referring to? Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
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17 June 2008 Ms Sara Mogel and Mr David Jones
Q673 Alun Michael: I am gobsmacked that you do provision, therefore, for exactly the same package not know. you are being asked to pay for more yourself and Mr Jones: That is not a term that is used. that can limit what a Welsh employer might want to take up as a package.
Q674 Alun Michael: It is a common term used right across the country. It was found to be particularly Q678 Mr David Jones: Is it your experience that that eVective in relation to students from rural areas with is acting as a disincentive to Welsh businesses? regard to provision of a motorbike and that sort of Ms Mogel: Exactly, it is acting as a disincentive. thing. There is about five months’ payback. Mr Jones: I do apologise if I should know. I would Q679 Albert Owen: What representations do you be lying if I said that I have heard of it when I have have as a college with the regional bodies not. There are a range of diVerent issues, but that is representing employers, the CBI, the Federation of not one of them. Small Businesses, et cetera? Ms Mogel: We are involved particularly with the Chambers of Commerce. Of course, in our area the Q675 Mr David Jones: Ms Mogel, we have heard Chambers of Commerce straddle the border just as from Mr Jones about the links that his college has so many things do. with local businesses, what links does West Cheshire College have with local businesses in both England and Wales with regard to planning the content of Q680 Albert Owen: So what are they doing to courses oVered? address this problem you have just identified to my colleague? Ms Mogel: Because of our specialism in vocational Ms Mogel: I am not sure that they are doing education, that has become a very large part of our anything in particular. The Chamber of Commerce provision. I think I said before nearly half of our in our area is definitely aware of it and has been learners actually learn in the workplace now, they do talking to the LSC about it, but I do not personally not learn on the college campus. We have been know of anything that the CBI are doing about it. recognised for the excellence that we do. We are the preferred supplier for some big companies that work nationally and internationally, so you would expect Q681 Albert Owen: You are raising these issues with us, therefore, to provide, and we do provide, their your Chambers of Commerce, et cetera, but are you training wherever they happen to be. We do quite a raising it with the Welsh equivalents? I know you lot of work with employers, some through partially said that it straddles the border, so are you in contact subsidised provision, such as apprenticeships for with the other employer bodies, the regional bodies? example, some through fully subsidised, such as the Ms Mogel: The main regional body that we are Train to Gain, and quite a lot on a commercial basis, involved in, both colleges are involved in, is the which is what David talked about. Yes, there are Mersey-Dee Alliance and it certainly has been raised companies that are Welsh-based companies that do in that forum on several occasions. training with us for our specialism. Q682 Albert Owen: Tell us a little bit about that. Ms Mogel: The Mersey-Dee Alliance, because there Q676 Mr David Jones: We have heard already that is such a base of employment that straddles the V you are unable to o er initiatives like Train to Gain border, was set up in order to support the to businesses in Wales. To what extent does that development of the attraction of employers, compromise the college’s provision for local recruitment of staV, up-skilling of staV, and both businesses and students? colleges are involved in that. That is a model. It is Ms Mogel: I think what it does is it gives an still fairly early stages for that, it has got an awful lot advantage to those employers who are based in of potential and is a model that both colleges would England rather than compromise those in Wales, so see as best practice. it is a disadvantage. Q683 Albert Owen: Some of my colleagues from that Q677 Mr David Jones: Could you explain that a area, the Deeside area, refer to the Deeside hub as bit more? one of the most exciting, fastest growing areas in the Ms Mogel: If you are an English employer and we go whole of the United Kingdom. in and have a look at your needs in order to improve Ms Mogel: Yes. your productivity, your up-skilling needs, we can oVer you a range of provision, so we will put Q684 Albert Owen: You have just highlighted that together a bespoke package but some of that there are issues with the border that prevent bespoke package will be subsidised, either fully or movement of students and links with business. If a partially subsidised, and that will help you pay to student wanted specialist skilled courses, are there buy the whole package. Obviously if we go to a disincentives because of the border? That is what I Welsh employer we can oVer you the apprenticeship am trying to get at in a number of my questions. provision because that is allowed under the rules, Ms Mogel: It depends on who that student is, which but we cannot oVer you any of the other subsidised is not really a good way of delivering a skills agenda. Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
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17 June 2008 Ms Sara Mogel and Mr David Jones
If the student is an individual who approaches my their ability to benefit from the whole package is college because we can oVer them a particular skill limited. There are similar alternatives running in that maybe Deeside College cannot oVer them then Wales as well. They are not under the banner of usually there is a way around it. If they are an Train to Gain but there are eVectively other employer who has a cohort of students then there is initiatives trying to do the same sort of things not, and that is the real issue. It is about making sure recognising sometimes that you need to do more that the border does not become a barrier to both development of an organisation before you start to employers achieving their business aims and do training and recognising that sometimes that individuals achieving their own personal aims. training needs to be more bespoke. I think that is the issue, it is about the confusion sometimes about the Q685 Albert Owen: You are representing the two messages which go through to companies. Clearly if bodies here today, do you think it is a barrier at this you are running an organisation, particularly a small moment in time? or medium-sized business, you are trying to get on Ms Mogel: I think it is probably a barrier for with trying to keep the company stable, the last thing employers at this point in time. The watershed you want is confusing information on training agreement that we have for young people works well schemes. and is not bureaucratic. If we could overcome this idea from both sides of the border that we are able Q688 Albert Owen: One final question I have is does to recruit in the way that we could before— the further education sector in England have adequate provision of work-based training for students with learning diYculties and disabilities? Q686 Albert Owen: You particularly mentioned Ms Mogel: For work-based training, I think that is Airbus, the largest manufacturer in the region, in the the hardest end. I think the foundation learning United Kingdom perhaps, which is so important to team that is being introduced in England is going to that area and these barriers should be looked at as a have a very positive mark on what we do for students priority. Would you agree with that? with learning diYculties and disabilities because it is Ms Mogel: Absolutely. We are talking about a line much more designed around them being work ready on a map and that is all it is. As somebody who lives and employable than I think the previous provision in Wales and works in England I have yet to have my was. I think what is coming in is going to be of passport checked as I travel to work. benefit. I am not sure whether you are also asking me a question about whether the border is an issue? Q687 Albert Owen: We will check it if you are going to watch football in Manchester! Mr Jones, can I ask Q689 Albert Owen: The whole inquiry we are doing for your opinion on whether it is a barrier? is about the border issue, provision either side of the Mr Jones: It is a barrier, it is a minor barrier. border is what we are looking at and whether the Without being complacent in any way, the Mersey- border is a barrier in many ways to students. Dee Alliance region is served by good colleges, Ms Mogel: I think the real issue for students with including our own and other providers who have disabilities is often a transport issue rather than a very much got a focus on meeting employer needs, provision issue. Certainly my college has not had they are well-engaged with employers, employer any provision issues, but it could be an issue if groups, Sector Skills Councils and the CBI, and that colleges are not being supported in terms of is what makes a diVerence and is a key part of the transporting students across the border because strength of the area. There are lots of areas for often students with a disability are much more improvement and it is about the confusion reliant on public transport. sometimes about initiatives. Train to Gain is an Chairman: Those are all the questions we wish to ask English-based initiative and, whilst we do not have you this morning. Thank you very much, it has been that in Wales, if there is an employer who might be a very helpful session to us. We look forward to doing some training with West Cheshire College receiving supplementary evidence in due course.
Witnesses: Dr John Graystone, Chief Executive, Vorwm, and Mr John Stephenson, Principal, Coleg Powys, gave evidence.
Q690 Chairman: Welcome to the Welsh AVairs Q691 Chairman: Mr Stephenson, could I begin by Committee. For the record, could you introduce asking you a question, could you briefly explain yourselves, please. some of the reasons why the English-domiciled Mr Stephenson: Good morning. I am John students choose to attend your college? Stephenson, I am the Principal from Coleg Powys. Mr Stephenson: Yes, indeed, Chairman. I would The college obviously serves 2,000 square miles of probably want to categorise them in two diVerent Powys and has probably the longest border with ways. First of all, if we look primarily at full-time England and we are probably the least crossed in 16–18 year olds, those who are leaving school, we terms of population flow. have actually very few who cross the border and Dr Graystone: John Graystone, Chief Executive of those who do so generally live very close to that very Vorwm, which is the equivalent body in Wales to the winding border between Powys and Shropshire. One Association of Colleges. or two schools, like Bishop’s Castle School for Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
Ev 8 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
17 June 2008 Dr John Graystone and Mr John Stephenson example, are just the other side of that. When I Q694 Mrs James: I wanted to look at the diVerence analyse our numbers for this year, there are in the numbers between students who are domiciled probably about 10 or 12 students only that come in England who come into Wales to do courses and from the English side of the border within that those in Wales who cross the border into England. particular category. There is a far bigger outflow the Do you think that the number of English-domiciled other way to Shrewsbury, Hereford and those larger students presents any particular challenges or areas which have not only FE colleges but also benefits for the further education sector in Wales? substantial sixth form colleges as well which attract Dr Graystone: I think it does provide benefits. What a lot of students from that border region, for obvious I hope, as was said in the earlier session, is that the reason because it serves that border region. The border should not become a barrier and there is a lot other category of students is the adult students of scope where we can work much more closely, and perhaps attending vocational courses or very often people do benefit by having an experience outside community courses who do not necessarily their own country. I would certainly see it as recognise the border as any form of barrier something positive for both sides. whatsoever, so they will be attending potentially Mr Stephenson: I think I would agree with that. As courses that we are delivering on an outreach basis a college, we claim to serve the community and the to some of the border towns like Knighton and fact that there is a border dividing various parts of Presteigne, and so on, and quite clearly the converse the community should not be a barrier to people is true, people will go the other way for precisely crossing that in one way or another and people will benefit either side of that. At the same time, perhaps those same reasons. So across the piece we have a one of the interesting flows that I did not mention relatively small flow of students from England and earlier is that there are a significant number of indeed there is a small category, again, of students people, small but significant number of people, who who I do not even necessarily know whether they are do cross into Wales to study because they want to do from Wales or England because the postcode Welsh language courses and even though they live in sectors, which is what we use to do the analysis, England they want to do Welsh language courses. actually have the border running through them. People can have a particular postcode and depending on whether they are one side of the road Q695 Mrs James: Are there any particular or the other will depend on whether they are in challenges? You have talked about the benefits but England or Wales. are there any challenges that you feel you might want to comment on? Mr Stephenson: As I say, one of the key challenges is Q692 Chairman: I see that you have a campus at the fact that there are large further education Ystradgynlais. How long have you had that campus? institutions not too far away over the border in Mr Stephenson: We purchased the site in places like Hereford, Shrewsbury and Oswestry that Ystradgynlais about five years ago now. It is only a can provide a significant range of provision and to small community campus. It does not oVer full-time whom a few students coming from the Powys area provision but it has been very useful. Ystradgynlais, simply adds to their numbers . It is not a whole as you are probably aware, is the Community First cohort by any means, they are not providing for a area and we have been able to work with the whole cohort. Hereford College of Technology, for community in a number of places in that area in example, has got a £30 million capital build this year order to develop that type of provision. and, as we look at the numbers over the last two or three years, more of them are flowing in that direction so they clearly perceive the benefits in Q693 Chairman: This may be a rather perverse that sense. question but I know the area very well. In terms of borders, is it more of a real border than the southern Q696 Mrs James: Given your own particular end, your relationships with Neath Port Talbot college, Coleg Powys, are there any changes that you College, is there intense competition for students in would like to see made which would increase your that area? ability to recruit and tailor courses for English- Mr Stephenson: I do not think intense competition domiciled students? would be a fair way of putting it. When we opened Mr Stephenson: As a relatively small college we do Ystradgynlais we talked very closely with Neath not have any major areas of specialism, unlike the Port Talbot College to make sure that their outreach two colleagues I heard speaking at this desk earlier provision and ours were as complementary as was today. We perceive our role very much to provide a possible. You have raised an interesting point, which broad range of vocational courses specifically. is that sometimes those border areas between Powys Again, we do not do GCSE or A levels, the schools and other parts of Wales can be just as significant, if do that in our area. We are having to look very not more so, not least because of the convergence arc carefully in Powys at how collectively both the and the competitiveness area and the additional college and the schools can make that range of funding that is available to employers and so on in provision locally in order to avoid pupils having to those areas, much more significant on many travel to those English colleges in order to access the occasions than the border between Powys and full range and depth of provision that is envisaged England. under the new 14–19 arrangements and so on. Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 9
17 June 2008 Dr John Graystone and Mr John Stephenson
Dr Graystone: Firstly, in Wales colleges do work Dr Graystone: Yes. very closely in partnership. There are 25 FE colleges and FE institutions, you can meet all the principals Q699 Mr David Jones: I was having diYculty when in one room and we meet regularly and discuss a I read the note from the AoC in understanding the wide range of issues, but we never meet principals way that the funding regime worked for the Welsh who are along the border. Meeting Sara today has students who go there, and in fact there are a large been a pleasure but we do not meet formally. You number of Welsh students, 53% of the total number could argue that one possibility might be from time enrolled on that course who are from Wales. The to time it might be useful to establish relationships AoC memo did not make it particularly clear as to with colleges along the border, maybe to discuss how it was funded. Are you able to help us with that? their provision and so on. Also there is the issue of Mr Stephenson: I have not got a clue personally, I the diVerent funding methodologies, which I know am afraid. David Jones has explained and they are very Dr Graystone: I would assume that the Learning and complex. I do not think there is any solution to the Skills Council would fund that provision. We can diVerence unless you abolish devolution, which certainly come back when we find out for you. would be very sensitive. We have also raised the issue V of sta pay. I have spoken to principals in Wales and Q700 Mr David Jones: In fact, according to the AoC asked, because we now have pay parity with school memo only three of these are funded by the Learning teachers are they now recruiting more lecturers and Skills Council, the majority are studying at full coming in from England, the answer is not very cost. many, it seems to be very marginal. There is a Dr Graystone: I have just had a note passed to me psychological barrier between England and Wales in saying the fees are paid by the employers. that probably many English lecturers would not wish to apply for jobs in Wales because it is now becoming very diVerent. There is an issue there in Q701 Mr David Jones: I see. We have touched briefly terms of cross-border flow of staV. Lastly, and this already in this session on foundation degrees and, of course, the position is that English FE institutions has been alluded to, there is a huge disparity in are able to validate their own foundation degrees but capital programmes either side of the border. In Welsh FE institutions are not. Does this impact in England there is a very strong commitment to have any way on students’ choice of college now, or do world class facilities in further education. I think you anticipate it will in the future? something like £750 million or so is being spent in Dr Graystone: At the moment the answer is no the current year. If in Wales we had a similar type of because I know in England the first college which is funding we would be getting about £50 million or seeking to have its own foundation degrees validated £60 million a year, but we are getting about £20 is now going through the process and that is a college million. The Webb Report alluded very strongly to in Durham. It will start having an impact over a the capital funding gap. Over time that could have period of time because I should imagine that more an impact because learners may start looking for and more English colleges would want to start campuses which are very well equipped and we may having foundation degrees validated. I think that find it diYcult to compete at that level. That would would help raise the profile of those colleges and it be a longer term issue. would be something which we could not compete with on the borders. We are very much hoping that the Welsh Assembly Government will be making a Q697 Mr David Jones: Dr Graystone, would you say decision on foundation degrees and would seek to that overall there is an adequate range of specialist V give the powers to colleges in Wales who fulfil a courses o ered by Welsh FE institutions? certain criterion and have a critical mass. My answer Dr Graystone: Yes. I think we give a very wide at the moment is it is not having an impact but in the provision of courses which meet the needs of the vast long-term, if colleges in Wales did not have those majority of learners. There will be occasions, and I powers, it could start having an impact in the next think the AoC in their evidence have drawn few years. attention to nautical studies in Blackpool, in Fylde College, when there will be some things where that would involve a substantial amount of investment Q702 Mr David Jones: So is it a matter of regret that and it would not make sense for colleges in Wales to when the legislation went through, I think it was last year, Wales was excluded? try and duplicate what was happening in that Dr Graystone: Yes. We lobbied on that issue and we college. My answer to the question is they do provide regretted that decision. It is now a devolved matter a very wide range but there may be some small areas and we are hoping the Welsh Assembly Government of specialism which require substantial investments will take up that decision. which it would not make sense for colleges to invest in if that provision is being made available in England. Q703 Alun Michael: Just on the issue of confusion over the policy on foundation degrees at the moment. As I understand it, there was clarity that Q698 Mr David Jones: I was particularly interested colleges in Wales would not be able to award those in the mention of the Blackpool and Fylde College, degrees but there have then been statements made but that is a highly specialist course. suggesting that perhaps that will be diVerent. Is there Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
Ev 10 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
17 June 2008 Dr John Graystone and Mr John Stephenson not a need for some certainty in order to promote at Q708 Alun Michael: So you see it as some sort of least eVective partnerships between FE colleges and reserve power really? universities in this area? Dr Graystone: Obviously there are opportunities Dr Graystone: We understand that the First Minister that universities cannot oVer themselves where we will be making a statement shortly which will clarify have that specialism. If you look at New College, the position on foundation agrees. We are hoping Durham, they have got some specialisms which local that the First Minister, Rhodri Morgan, will give the universities do not have and so they can move colleges those powers. Certainly we would strongly forward on that basis. emphasise that whether or not we have those Mr Stephenson: Can I perhaps comment as one of powers, and we hope we will, it should not those colleges that probably would not be seeking undermine partnerships with higher education foundation degree status because we do not believe institutions. We work very closely with higher that we have got the capacity in terms of our size and education institutions and we suspect that most so on. We have very constructive relationships with foundation degrees will continue to be operated in four universities in Wales to make HE provision in partnership. We believe there are some areas of the County of Powys. We value and welcome that specialism which colleges have which universities do partnership with those HEIs and the support that not have, or may not be interested in having, and they provide us because without that we would not those are the areas where we feel we can make that be able to make that delivery available to people contribution. locally. Having said that, those colleges in Wales that do have particular specialisms, and I will not Q704 Alun Michael: Would all FE colleges in Wales cite particular ones but there are clearly about four have the capacity to do so? that— Dr Graystone: No. I suspect at the end you will probably find a handful, two or three, and that would be it, and most colleges would not have the Q709 Alun Michael: It might be useful to have some capacity and would not expect to do it. I understand illustrations, perhaps outside this meeting. that for New College, Durham, which I think is the Mr Stephenson: It is probably fairly obvious as you first college to apply in England, it will take at least look at the size and the specialisms of those six years before they get final accreditation, so it is a particular institutions. They would certainly benefit long process. from that particular status. As a college that probably is not seeking it myself then I do not see why those colleges in Wales that have got the size Q705 Alun Michael: The root of my question is and the capacity and so on should be disadvantaged would not giving those powers to colleges in Wales compared with their English colleagues. possibly undermine what seems to be quite a fruitful path towards co-operation, as you have indicated yourself? Q710 Mrs James: You have already mentioned Dr Graystone: We argue no and we have met with funding in passing and we turn to funding now. In Higher Education Wales to reassure them of that Vorwm’s written submission you note that funding fact. If you look at the picture in Wales in terms of on post-16 education per head of population in foundation degrees, we are behind England in terms Wales is less than that of England. Are there any of numbers if you look at it on a pro rata basis. implications for cross-border provision that aVect it Whereas in England there seems to have been a very particularly in that area? strong drive towards increasing the numbers of Dr Graystone: Obviously this is not just Vorwm foundation degrees, we have not had that strong saying it, it is an independent study. Clearly it means push in Wales. By colleges having the power, it that we cannot oVer perhaps the best facilities and might help lever up the numbers. the best provision that we might do if we had equivalent funding to England. Certainly at the Q706 Alun Michael: Can I ask whether that is lack moment, as Vorwm and colleges collectively, we are of push from the FE colleges or a problem with the involved in rather detailed negotiations with the universities? Welsh Assembly Government over our funding for Dr Graystone: No, colleges are very committed. In next year. We have had a very, very tight funding fact, if the Committee wishes, we could send you lists settlement which will widen the gap. It is at the of examples of foundation degrees oVered by margins and I have to say that we do not do colleges. We are very keen to work on that and take ourselves any favours because at the moment forward those responsibilities. colleges in Wales have got a superb quality record. One of the advantages we have got as an Association Q707 Alun Michael: But you would see it primarily when we are lobbying the Welsh Assembly through a partnership approach? Government for funding is that we are doing Dr Graystone: Definitely. Wales partnership is the extremely well. Our inspection reports over the last key thing between colleges and universities, between three or four years have been superb. We are now colleges and school sixth forms. We are keen to work being described by the senior Civil Service as being in partnership and we do not want to undermine “the quality sector”. We would still welcome that those partnerships. Having those powers we would additional funding because it could mean that we not be seeking to compete against universities. could provide some more benefits for our learners. Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 11
17 June 2008 Dr John Graystone and Mr John Stephenson
Mr Stephenson: There are two or three issues related significance of that is not that my organisation is to funding. There is some evidence that overall the disadvantaged, “Oh gosh, I’m losing compared with funding levels are lower for Wales than in England. those”, it is the fact that those people who are not on Not only that, certainly my college and many other the border areas who need my organisation to colleges are also capped as well in the sense that if we provide their further education and so on, will be were able to deliver all the educational training that significantly disadvantaged as a result of that. Those people were demanding from us we could have a who are close to the border will be able to access higher settlement, so the budget is capped by a cash those high level facilities and that is fair enough, but sum. That is one of the issues. The second issue is those who are not— obviously more of the funding is actually hypothecated against the pay initiative which has come in over the last two or three years. Of course, Q713 Albert Owen: Sorry to cut across you. Dr we all want our staV to be rewarded in the same way Graystone, why do you think there is this funding as staV within schools, but it does mean that more of gap? the funding that is available is devoted to those Dr Graystone: That is a very good question. For purposes and less of it is then flexible to be used for example, Webb alluded to £200 million as what was other purposes. The third issue, if I may, and John required to bring colleges in Wales up to an has already mentioned this, is the disparity in capital acceptable standard. It is obviously the policy of the funding is very, very marked now and that is Welsh Assembly Government, and it may be their impeding a lot of colleges in being able to undertake priorities in terms of funding and a whole range of the development that we require to really deliver to factors, but as an Association we need to keep the highest level in the 21st Century. pushing and reminding the Welsh Assembly Government. They are now setting up a strategic capital investment board which will be looking at Q711 Mrs James: So what are the priority areas for capital investment in the round and we, as FE, will any additional capital investment? be putting forward our case. There is quite a lot of Mr Stephenson: Learning resources in terms of new evidence that if you invest heavily in capital it does building in many areas to actually make sure the actually increase enrolment and also raises environment is equivalent to that which it is in many achievement. Although we have not got any hard other institutions now. Learners, whether they are evidence, certainly the evidence we have seen shows 16–18 year olds or adults, want to be able to have that it could have a long-term impact. It is obviously environments that relate to them as well as good a policy decision on where funding should go in social space within it and so on. Learning resources Wales. and electronic networking and all those sorts of things require a significant amount of investment and maintenance. Once you make the initial Q714 Albert Owen: Do you think one of those investment it seems to be a never-ending process of policies is top-up fees? Is money going away from keeping them up-to-date and functioning eVectively. capital investment into foreign students so that they If we were strategically across Wales to look at some pay less? of the areas of specialism, and I am not proposing Dr Graystone: I think we would be a little bit shipbuilding in Powys to compete with Blackpool reluctant to say. That may be the case but there are and Fylde, but if there were one or two areas of other priorities in Wales as well. We have had specialism that we ought to be looking at across decisions on health and so on which— Wales then capital funding would be needed to drive that in whatever strategic locations were selected. Q715 Albert Owen: The reason I raise that with your organisation is the fact that we are coming into Q712 Albert Owen: Just before I move on to the another round of top-up fees in 2009 and I am regulation and funding bodies in England and interested to know whether you have an opinion that Wales, on the issue of the lack of capital investment further education has been losing out in Wales in Wales, and you have given some general because some cash has been diverted away from examples, is there a worry in the border areas that capital investment that you have raised in your England will have these state-of-the-art facilities and paper to other areas, particularly top-up fees. students will want to move to the best environments Dr Graystone: We recognise that money has got to in the future? Has it reached that point or are you come from somewhere and it could well be that that putting a marker down that we have got less funding money might have been invested in capital and FE, now and it could be a problem in the future, or is it but equally it may have been invested in other areas. a problem now and you envisage it will get worse in All I can say is we are going to keep pushing the the future? Welsh Assembly Government on that matter and Mr Stephenson: I believe it is a problem now. There when they go into the next round of top-up fees we are more students going across the border from our will be in there bargaining. As we are now funded area. I have to bear in mind that in our area it is a centrally from the Welsh Assembly Government it relatively low absolute number in overall Wales does mean that FE, in a sense, has to compete for terms, but there are more students crossing that resources with the Health Service, with transport, border now than there were last year and I think with housing, and it makes it more diYcult. When there will be more again as a result when some of this we had a funding body at least the funding body was capital investment comes through. The major fighting our corner, but we now have to do that Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
Ev 12 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
17 June 2008 Dr John Graystone and Mr John Stephenson ourselves. Whether we would get more capital changed in order to get greater clarity about the rules funding if top-up fees changed, I do not think it is for cross-border provision or home-to-education quite as easy as that. transport? Mr Stephenson: I do think the fact that each local Q716 Albert Owen: I accept that. You mentioned authority, both in England and Wales, has a one funding body and across the border now the discretionary power that they can exercise in V Skills and Learning Council is going to be devolving di erent ways does lead to a patchwork of provision its funding of 16–19 year olds to local authorities and a patchwork of opportunities that are quite Y and you have called for greater co-operation with di cult for somebody to follow through. I also think those individual authorities. Do you think there is a the fact that each authority has to produce that lack of co-operation now with the regions or are you scheme for September as late as 31 May in-year is a saying you have got to get ahead of the game and major problem because if they were to make those start talking to those local authorities? changes on 31 May many students attending colleges Dr Graystone: At the moment, and this was perhaps would have already made their decisions previously, behind our evidence, I think we used the words “free so the timing of that decision is probably trade” in one of the quotations from a principal, it inappropriate. goes on and people work together but there is no systematic planning, and I do not think we would Q719 Alun Michael: In view of the response I had to want that either. In England they are going to have an earlier supplementary, and I will explain in the 16–18 funding devolved to local authorities and that question, a number of years ago Wheels to Work is going to create more of a challenge because there projects were shown to be very eVective in having will be a range of diVerent local authorities along the something like a five month payback for investment border, all of whom may have diVerent views and in things like providing a motorcycle to a youngster diVerent approaches, and it may make our position to get them on the way to work, which might be more complex. In your questioning to the previous through a college course in the first instance. Are you speakers, those matters have not yet been resolved aware directly of that sort of approach being used in on the English side, but looking from the Welsh side your area and, if so, is the border invisible for such we are quite pleased to be in Wales in respect of that schemes? policy because we think it is going to make it much Mr Stephenson: Am I aware of the provision? Yes, I more complex in the longer term. am. Certain communities do have an eVective Wheels to Work scheme. Llanidloes, for example, Q717 Alun Michael: To what extent is the provision has a relatively eVective Wheels to Work scheme of home-to-education transport a significant factor that gives young people access to transport, not only in students’ choice of college and, indeed, their to come to college but obviously to work, by ability to attend? definition. Frankly, I am not aware of anybody the Mr Stephenson: I do not believe it is a significant other side of the border who has access to a similar factor in our area any more than the issue of scheme who uses that to access college. I am aware transport to college even within Wales. Many of my of the schemes and we have students who make use learners come 45 minutes to an hour’s journey each- of them, and I certainly have not done any research, way in any case. We are fortunate in that we have but I do not believe there are any students accessing one of those local authorities I heard David Jones that on the other side of the border. refer to earlier that still provides post-16 transport Alun Michael: That is interesting because I think under its discretionary powers, although I do know Shropshire was referred to as one of the more that they are looking very hard at whether they are successful early experiments. Thank you very much. able to continue to do that in the future. Students who do come across the border, the relatively few Q720 Mr David Jones: We touched on this in the last that I spoke about earlier on a full-time basis, have evidence session, but perhaps you could tell the to make their own way. I checked up on their Committee in what ways does the FE sector in Wales transport arrangements the other day. They make engage with businesses in both Wales and England their own way into Powys and then they are able to with regard to the planning of courses? access a subsidised seat on a Powys bus that brings Dr Graystone: Just in terms of in Wales, obviously them into college, so they have got quite a complex we do not have access to Train to Gain so you do arrangement to make, but in terms of time and have diVerent funding systems. There are two types convenience it may be not significantly greater than of funding primarily. There is either employer accessing the college in any case. I do not believe for funded training or funding which is given by the that particular cohort that it makes a significant Welsh Assembly Government, which in colleges V di erence in their choice. I do actually think a lot of totals about £23 million a year out of a total budget learners in Powys will choose to continue to go to of about £280 million, so that gives you an idea of their local school and study A levels rather than the percentage. Clearly that is a capped amount, a potentially travel 45 minutes to an hour to access a finite amount of money, and if you go above it you vocational provision, and that is an issue. do not get any more funding. On the other side you have got the training which is paid for by the Q718 Alun Michael: You referred to some employer, what we call full cost, and you have heard complexity for students going in one direction, but in Deeside and other colleges there will be some do you think there is anything that needs to be training delivered for employers which is fully Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 13
17 June 2008 Dr John Graystone and Mr John Stephenson funded by those employers. The diYculty with the sort of provision. There are certain things we are work-based learning allocations to colleges, which able to do in Wales possibly more eVectively than in are publicly funded, is they are capped, so there is no England but, at the same time, there are other encouragement for you to increase the numbers of initiatives on the other side of the border. trainees if you are not going to get draw down Dr Graystone: It is interesting that Webb, which had funding for that and that makes it diYcult and gives about 130 or so recommendations, does not ever you less incentive to go cross-border if you know you mention cross-border services at all. In terms of are not going to get funding for those loans, whereas employer engagement, the one thing he has pushed if it is fully funded by the employer then there is an very strongly, and we are waiting for the Welsh incentive. For colleges, in the Webb Report and the Assembly Government’s response, is this idea of Skills Strategy for Wales, the employer engagement top-slicing £40 million from college budgets, from is a key priority. Certainly we are waiting for the post-19 budgets, which is primarily to be used for Welsh Assembly Government’s response now to the training and working with employers. The idea will Skills and Employment Strategy and we know they be that over a three year period employers will will see colleges as being very much at the heart of determine their needs and buy-back provision from the skills development. Perhaps I am straying those colleges. After three years it would then be slightly away from things here, but at the moment open to the private sector and so on. There are quite there is a priority for 16–19 in terms of funding, not a few developments in Wales which are very diVerent for adults, not 19-plus, but that is where the skills from the Train to Gain initiative in England. requirements are going to be over the next 20 or so years, so we do hope that the Welsh Assembly Q722 Mr David Jones: It is odd that there was no Government in its wisdom will move towards mention of cross-border issues in that report because incentivising colleges to work much more closely there are a relatively large number of FE institutions with employers to increase the number of adults that are operating in a cross-border environment receiving training in the long-term. dealing with employers who recruit from both sides of the border working in labour markets that Q721 Mr David Jones: Does the unavailability of frequently straddle the so-called border. How do FE Train to Gain amount to a handicap to Welsh FE institutions best operate in an environment such as institutions? that because clearly, if you like, you are in the same Dr Graystone: Speaking to colleagues in England, market but you are competing with institutions on probably not, there seems to be a range of views on the other side of the border who are operating under that. No principal has ever raised it with me saying, diVerent funding regimes? “If only we can have Train to Gain in Wales”. I do Mr Stephenson: It is obviously a mixed bag. Many not know if you feel it has been an issue for you, employers will work with a provider that they have John? built a relationship of some trust and confidence Mr Stephenson: No. Again, I am sorry I am giving with and under those circumstances a border evidence from the specific perspective of a very rural becomes of less significance. Again, within the area in Powys. We engage quite strongly with Powys context I currently chair the Powys employers but specifically in relation to those things Regeneration Partnership and one of my vice-chairs that are legislative driven, so on courses in first aid, is actually the Chief Executive of the Mid-Wales health and safety, hygiene, et cetera, we are able to Manufacturing Group, so there is a very close engage with them and provide a significant range of working relationship there and, indeed, the full cost courses on that basis. Those employers who voluntary, public and private sectors all come need more specialist provision very rarely have together in that regeneration partnership to talk suYcient commonality of interest for us to be able to about what forms of provision, not only skills-based make that provision. In places like Telford, for provision but what sort of infrastructure provision, example, where there is a strong manufacturing base will help regenerate the Powys economy in a number and so on, they will probably access provision there. of ways. There are opportunities for employers and V They cannot use the Train to Gain monies, colleges to work together e ectively and we use obviously, in order to do it but it makes more sense those where we can, but that is not to say there will for them to do that. I believe Vorwm is going to not be a need for some of those employers to access submit to you a supplementary piece of written that more specialist training as well. evidence that was produced for Sir Adrian Webb’s Report which talks about employer engagement. Q723 Mr David Jones: Do you ever feel at a Dr Graystone: Yes. disadvantage in terms of seeking business, if you Mr Stephenson: And cites five colleges, including like, from employers across the other side of the Powys and Deeside, and David Jones was here border who may be based on the other side of the earlier this morning, and indicates the whole range border but are actually operating on both sides? of provision that is made. Colleges actually work Mr Stephenson: Do I feel I am disadvantaged in that very closely together sometimes to make provision. respect? Probably not. Many employers in the For example, leadership and management training Powys area, in the Newtown area, in the Welshpool has been a consortium of colleges delivering an area, have got people coming from England to work Assembly contract across the piece. For IT training within those particular companies rather than the for the Welsh Ambulance Trust, again a consortium other way round. They migrate across the border to of colleges north and south has been delivering that work there and they live in England. Processed: 22-12-2008 23:42:45 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG2
Ev 14 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
17 June 2008 Dr John Graystone and Mr John Stephenson
Q724 Mr David Jones: So your experience in terms on them to provide me with information like that. If of employers from across the border is maybe less you want that information at a Committee level it than it would be, say, in north east Wales. may well be that Careers Wales would be the source Mr Stephenson: Absolutely. of that. I have certainly seen the AoC evidence and it does not mention sixth form colleges and they are significant players in the cross-border traYc of post- Q725 Mr David Jones: Where obviously, with a 16 learning. larger population more closely concentrated, the border, if anything, is irrelevant. Q727 Alun Michael: Perhaps we can have further Mr Stephenson: Yes. I heard one of the previous comments from Vorwm on that and also ask for the witnesses say she lived in Wales and worked in information from Careers Wales. England. In our area it is often the other way Dr Graystone: I would say one of the issues we raised around. was the issue of data. It took us a very long time to get hold of our figures. We need to go back and Q726 Alun Michael: Just to go back to the question scrutinise some of these. I think one or two colleges have been quite surprised to see those numbers of figures about people crossing the border. With the 3 earlier witnesses I made the comment that there is against them. We will do that. one set of figures that is given by Vorwm which talks Alun Michael: Thank you. about the numbers of learners crossing from Q728 Chairman: Could I ask one final question England to Wales and the Association of Colleges about adult residential colleges, Coleg Harlech and gave us figures going the other way and it is diYcult Ruskin. In the context of Powys, we were struck by to reconcile the two and also to understand what is the statistics that we saw that very large numbers of happening in terms of trends. It is probably a rather people from Powys go to Ruskin College. Do you more detailed question than you can deal with in provide any residential facilities yourselves? Would evidence, but it would helpful to have your take and you be surprised by the exceptionally high numbers what statistics you have available of movement in going from Powys to Ruskin? both directions and trends. In addition, perhaps an Mr Stephenson: I certainly was not aware of those explanation of the distinction which probably is figures at all and I think I would want to look much absolutely clear to you but not to somebody new more behind them as to what they were and why they coming to this, such as learners stating an English were doing that. Certainly some years ago we used postcode and learners stating their domicile as to have a close relationship, and we still have a close English. Clearly I understand that particularly in relationship with Coleg Harlech and there were places like Montgomeryshire there are some issues more learners progressing from our provision and about that. I am surprised that the figures cannot be accessing residential courses in Coleg Harlech. We refined rather more than appears to be the case in the do not make residential provision, we do not have figures you have provided. that provision ourselves. Mr Stephenson: The figures for people going out of Chairman: Thank you very much for your evidence Wales, clearly I have some which have been today, it has been extremely helpful. We look provided to me by various sources but the source of forward to receiving the additional information that that information would generally be Careers Wales, you will send to us. Thank you. I would suggest, who ought to be tracking the destinations of each school leaver and so on. I rely 3 Ev 139–142 Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [SO] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 15
Tuesday 24 June 2008
Members present
Dr Hywel Francis, in the Chair
Mr David Jones Alun Michael Mr Martyn Jones Mark Pritchard
Witnesses: Professor Merfyn Jones, Chair, Higher Education Wales (HEW) and Ms Amanda Wilkinson, Director, Higher Education Wales, gave evidence
Q729 Chairman: Welcome back to the Welsh AVairs Assembly Government’s global initiatives and Committee. We are delighted to see you both again. international initiatives in terms of creating a Wales Professor Jones, could you introduce yourself and brand globally. your colleague for the record? Professor Jones: I am Merfyn Jones, Vice Chancellor of Bangor University and Chair of Q732 Mark Pritchard: There has been a lot of Higher Education Wales. Amanda Wilkinson is debate, as you know, in England about the Director of Higher Education Wales. equivalent qualifications and associated funding. What impact do you think that will have on Wales? Ms Wilkinson: On the ELQ (Equivalent or Lower Q730 Chairman: Could I begin by asking you the Qualifications) issues in particular, our simple question: could you explain the role of understanding is that ELQ is supposed to be cost- Higher Education Wales and how it relates to the neutral, so in terms of the consequences to Wales, Higher Education Funding Council for Wales? there should not be an impact. Clearly, Wales has Professor Jones: Higher Education Wales is a taken a diVerent stance in terms of the ELQ issue. National Council of Universities UK; that is, all the That has certainly been supported by the sector in universities in the United Kingdom are represented Wales, given the need to focus on life-long learning in Universities UK. Higher Education Wales and the fact of whether individuals should be represents all the higher education institutions in deprived of a second bite 20 years hence when we are Wales. The funding council of course is an all very well aware of the structural changes that are Assembly-sponsored body that provides advice to likely to occur in the economy. Government and also through which a significant amount of funding flows. HEW and HEFCW work Q733 Mark Pritchard: For the record, can you very closely together to promote the interests of briefly outline, as you see it, as professionals, what higher education, but we have very diVerent and England is doing and what Wales is doing and the clear roles. diVerences. Ms Wilkinson: In terms of my understanding of Q731 Chairman: Given that higher education ELQs in England, in broad terms, the proposal is to generally is becoming more global, has devolution withdraw funding for second first degrees or second been a good thing or a bad thing? equivalent qualifications. If an individual has Professor Jones: I do not think it has necessarily already completed one undergraduate degree, there been either good or bad. I think there are clear would not be funding for a second undergraduate advantages in devolution and being able to operate degree. That is not being proposed in Wales. globally with other agencies of the Welsh Assembly Government, but clearly we would wish to Q734 Mark Pritchard: If it was equivalent or less and emphasise that higher education is a global business, if it was higher? that we are dependent on student flows across Ms Wilkinson: Yes, and in Wales there are no plans boundaries and that knowledge of course itself at present to follow such a policy. recognises no boundaries. There is also the fact that recent changes in the structure of government responsibilities at the UK level with the creation of Q735 Mark Pritchard: Do you think there might be DIUS (Department for Innovation, Universities some migration then of people who want to study and Skills) means that there are diVering political certain subjects in England and because of these structures on both sides of the border, and there has changes might come to Wales and knock on your been some policy divergence as well. That does universities’ door? create some diYculties for higher education because Ms Wilkinson: That would require some quite we do operate as part of British higher education detailed analysis, which we have not carried out. It globally as well as well as in Welsh higher education. depends on the nature of the individual and the type I think it does create some challenges for us, but it of study that they are wishing to undertake. Quite also creates very real opportunities as well. Only last clearly, for those people who are working and who week I had a meeting with oYcials from the Welsh have families and who are rooted in England, there Assembly Government to explore how higher will clearly be some impediment to them coming to education can make better use of the Welsh Wales. Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
Ev 16 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
24 June 2008 Professor Merfyn Jones and Ms Amanda Wilkinson
Q736 Mark Pritchard: Obviously as a university but in England of £200 million to match-fund fund- as a business, Professor Jones, do you see some raising campaigns. It is designed of course to try to opportunities that England’s misery might bring get universities in England successfully to create new Wales? funding streams; that is, from donations and so on. Professor Jones: I do not want to intrude on private That money is not being made available in Wales grief! There might be some possibilities but we are and therefore we are not in a position not say to the talking about very specialist areas which aVect in a potential donor, “If you give us £1, it will be match- significant way actually quite a small number of funded and become £2”. institutions in England that are very dependent, as it were, on this type of student. It does seem to me, if I am allowed to say this, that in the context of life- Q740 Mark Pritchard: Do you think part of the £60 long learning it seems to be a somewhat self- million deficit might be met by a similar scheme defeating measure because clearly professionals are being introduced in Wales and, if so, where do you going to need to update and up-skill and so on. The think those likely pools of donations and whole emphasis of our higher education policy in the international companies are going to come from, UK is very much on ensuring that people have the given that by definition there are less international relevant qualifications for whatever new roles they companies in the geographical area of Wales than adopt, new jobs they take. There may be there are in the geographical area of England? opportunities for us in Wales but I would see them Professor Jones: I do believe that the investment gap, V as being extremely limited realistically, partly the di erence in funding between England and V because, as Amanda was saying, many of these Wales, is a di erence in the core funding and needs people will be in employment of course and would to be addressed as such. The matched funding not be the kind of people who would move. scheme in England is in a sense additional and is a fairly small sum of money in global terms, in terms of the funding of higher education in the UK. There Q737 Mark Pritchard: Will you be marketing into are two separate problems, it seems to me: one is the that niche? funding issue; and the second is that the policy Professor Jones: From my own university’s point of variation and the matched-funding scheme is an view, we have not intended specifically to market for example of diVerent policies being pursued in that at this stage. England from in Wales. Its impact is serious but marginal compared to the fundamental issue of the Q738 Mark Pritchard: I have a further point on core funding. funding. Obviously when you compare the funding of higher education in Wales to that of England and even Scotland, there is a disparity. I just wonder Q741 Mark Pritchard: May I just say I was in whether you could outline the implications of that Amman recently and I met somebody who works for not only for your university but for Wales as a the Amman Government. He had studied at whole. university in Wales and he was praising the Professor Jones: This is a major concern for higher university sector. education in Wales, as you can imagine. Perhaps I Professor Jones: You must give me his name! should say at the outset that the Minister for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills Q742 Mr David Jones: I would like to ask you about has asked me to chair a group to advise on how this the DIUS review on higher education in England. Is might be addressed. Up to a point, I am constrained HEW or are Welsh universities individually in how I can respond to that question but clearly it participating in that review? is on the record in the report published by HEFCW Professor Jones: We certainly are through that there is a funding gap of some £60 million. I Universities UK, which is preparing a statement to suppose the bottom line is that our cost base is, as it present to the DIUS review. I do not think I am were, UK based. We pay the same salaries and sign revealing any secrets: I have seen an early draft of up to the same national agreements as universities in that document. Right up front, I think it does England. All our funding does not come from the emphasise that even though the DIUS review is a Welsh Assembly Government but a very significant review of higher education in England, and a root part of it does, and if that part is significantly less and branch review by the way of higher education in than what the English equivalents would be England, the implications of any recommendations receiving, in the end clearly that can create and will create an unsustainable situation. Indeed, I think in that arise from that review are going to be profound evidence to you recently the First Minister referred for the whole of the UK—for Wales, Scotland and to that as a problem. Northern Ireland as well. We will certainly be inputting into the discussion directly through Universities UK, but there also of course needs to be Q739 Mark Pritchard: Finally, on matched-funding an engagement between the Welsh Assembly donations, which has been announced in the Government and the Department for Innovation, framework, how do you think that will impact on Universities and Skills. higher education in Wales? Professor Jones: This is one of those policy variations that I was referring to in response to the Q743 Mr David Jones: What do you see the first question. This is a scheme that was introduced implications for Welsh higher education to be? Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 17
24 June 2008 Professor Merfyn Jones and Ms Amanda Wilkinson
Professor Jones: Because we are part of a UK system Assembly’s own policy in relation to higher of higher education, and that is the way in a sense we education Reaching Higher, which is due to take are perceived globally, if there are major changes— place this autumn. and I do not know what those changes might be and certainly when we also consider the issue of funding Q747 Mr David Jones: Do you think that is a and the cap on student fees and so on that is also shortcoming, given the clear importance of the being reviewed across England—either in policy or DIUS review to Welsh higher education as much as in funding in England, then that will have a to English higher education? profound impact on our competitive position in Ms Wilkinson: I think, as we have already Wales. If there is an increase of funding in England, articulated, it is very important that there is proper V then that will clearly a ect our ability to compete. engagement between all players in terms of this There may be policy divergences as well. We do not DIUS review because there are bound to be impacts know what the recommendations are going to be. on Welsh higher education as a result of this review. V Anything that a ects the English sector, which after One could argue that it is an England-only policy, all is the major part of the UK’s university sector, but that may well necessitate changes in Welsh V V and any policy that a ects that a ects us in Wales. policy if we are going to stay competitive. We need If I may say so, that is why this committee and to be well-cited on what comes through that review Members of Parliament have a very important role at all levels, particularly in relation to those UK in ensuring that the process in England is aware of issues around research in science, which are very the situation in Wales and similarly that policy important and where we have already had some makers in Wales are aware of possible shifts in policy issues. in the UK Government. Q748 Mr David Jones: It would be fair to say that Q744 Mr David Jones: If the review were to result in you would be looking for more co-ordination at an expansion of the number of higher education government level in terms of higher education policy centres in England would there be any particular in England and Wales? Ms Wilkinson: Yes, I think consequences for Welsh higher education centres? I that is right. I think we do have to look at the am thinking particularly perhaps of those close to mechanisms for co-ordinating higher education the border. policy at a UK level, not to prejudice the role of the Professor Jones: There already are some plans of Welsh Assembly Government and the devolved course in England to expand the number of outlets, powers that it has in relation to higher education, as it were, for higher education. Yes, it certainly but there are clearly UK competencies and there would have an impact. The truth of the matter is of needs to be co-ordination in order those are properly course that perhaps not quite all but most addressed and that the needs of Wales are properly institutions in Wales are not very far from the border reflected. and do already compete with institutions, On the other hand, they do not have to be just on the other Q749 Chairman: When we had the Secretary of State side of the border; they can be some way away. The for Wales before us discussing health matters on this distribution of HE institutions in England could inquiry, when we asked him about the nature of the clearly aVect our market because there is, as you bilateral ministerial meetings, he agreed with us that know, a considerable flow of students across the it would be healthy for democracy and for policy border in both directions. development that these meetings should be made Ms Wilkinson: There is certainly an issue in terms of clearer, announced, the nature of the meetings England looking at this review only within should be explained. Would you agree that that England’s borders and not taking into account the would be equally helpful in terms of when the institutions that are spread certainly along the Welsh education or higher education ministers met in this border, which could give a very diVerent complexion context? to what one might describe as a cold spot for higher Professor Jones: Yes, I am sure that it would. You education, given that provision is there just over will see in our written evidence that we do suggest the border. some mechanisms, and indeed we discussed those with the Secretary of State—that would allow an all- Q745 Mr David Jones: To what extent do you UK view to be developed so that at least the various understand that the Welsh Assembly Government is administrations understand what each other is doing engaging with DIUS in this review? because whatever happens will impact on other parts Ms Wilkinson: I would say we are not clear about the of the UK. We do need that kind of structure. Again, level of engagement between the Welsh Assembly if I may repeat what I said earlier, it seems to me that Government and DIUS in terms of this review. that is where, if I may say so, there is a role for Members of Parliament and indeed for this Committee to be aware of what is happening, both Q746 Mr David Jones: Are you aware of any at a UK, England and Wales level. engagement at all? Ms Wilkinson: There is also a need for proper co- Ms Wilkinson: We are not aware of any specific ordination between civil servants, otherwise we miss engagement in terms of the DIUS review between out on what appear to be quite straightforward the Welsh Assembly Government and DIUS in issues; for example, DIUS is co-ordinating a meeting terms of how that is going to inform the review of the with Indian oYcials to look at the UK initiative for Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
Ev 18 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
24 June 2008 Professor Merfyn Jones and Ms Amanda Wilkinson higher education. Again, we are not clear about the Ms Wilkinson: The real issue is how we develop our level of Welsh involvement in that meeting and it is activity and how we can be supported to do that, as important a market for our institutions as it is for given the supporting role that scientific development institutions in England. It is also in those smaller can play to the economy in Wales. That is fairly market-sensitive issues where co-ordination is going fundamental from our point of view in terms of the to be helpful to us. way we have approached science policy. One has seen interventions in funding at a UK level which necessarily have quite specific regional impacts. I Q750 Mr Martyn Jones: What are your views on the think we would like to see Wales considered for that Welsh Assembly Government’s science policy sort of funding. document “A Science Policy for Wales”? Professor Jones: Science policy is an area where clearly there is some funding through HEFCW into Q753 Mr Martyn Jones: Can I move on to health V scientific research but science as such is not a policy? How e ective is the UK-wide co-ordination devolved area because much of the funding for of workforce planning for health professionals? science through the science research councils and so Professor Jones: May I respond to that in a very on is UK-based. We very much welcomed the narrow, edgy way rather than the big question V development of “A Science Policy for Wales” and involved here? This a ects higher education and this look forward to it being underpinned by funding is true across the United Kingdom, as much in V that would allow the science base to be developed in England as in Wales. It can a ect us very directly. Wales. Of course, when one is thinking about science The first point to note, I suppose, is that the market in Wales, it is not entirely limited to universities but for health professionals is a UK market or indeed a it is very dependent on universities in the sense that global market. Work force planning within national we do not have the other corporate capacity in boundaries can perhaps in itself be not very helpful. science research that you find elsewhere. Science and What happens in HE, to give you an example, is if the development of science—and I use the word one day we think we need thousands more nurses, we V “science” broadly—it seems to me is absolutely put on the courses; we hire the sta and create fundamental to the future success of our economy. thousands more nurses. Then the workforce panel We do need a coherent plan for ensuring that we do might say, “Actually, we do not need any more V have a strong, healthy science base in Wales. We do nurses”, so we will turn o the tap and then you are V face particular challenges in that regard. Some of the left with very expensive sta and equipment and so statistics do demonstrate that we have a long way to on. That has been a big problem in England and it is go in order really to establish ourselves as a major something of a problem in Wales as well. The same force. goes in other areas. Once you do attempt to fund on the basis of workforce planning, it is very important that those who are doing the funding and planning Q751 Mr Martyn Jones: Is it in the best interests of recognise that when HE puts on these courses to the Welsh people to have a separate Welsh policy on train vocationally that infrastructure is still in place science when science is a UK responsibility, as you when the tap is turned oV and that it is a real noted in your memorandum? expenditure. Therefore, there is a real risk in being Professor Jones: I do believe there are certain involved in that business because we cannot be emphases in Wales; there are strengths and guaranteed on the throughput of students. weaknesses in Wales which are not reflected elsewhere. It does seem to me to be probably sensible Q754 Mr Martyn Jones: Is there anything that you to have a science policy which drives and which is, can do to help the over- or under-supply of as it were, built on our strengths and addresses our professionals in the HE sector? Can you liaise with weaknesses. To some extent, the science policy we DIUS to get them to try to get that balance, if you have does exactly that. like? Professor Jones: Yes, we do and there is engagement Q752 Mr Martyn Jones: Does Welsh higher between the professional bodies and we train in these education get a fair hearing and allocation from the vocational areas. The same is true, by the way, of UK-wide elements of the Department for teacher training as well. There is a considerable Innovation, Universities and Skills programmes? interchange of views and planning, but it is not Professor Jones: It is up to us really to respond to always clear that there are significant costs involved those initiatives but there are some initiatives which in reducing provision in these areas. are England only. I am not referring to DIUS here but for example the merger of the Medical Research Q755 Mark Pritchard: I have two brief Council with the NHS research capacity in England supplementaries on research funding. Do you think as it were brought a UK-wide body and an England- Wales gets a fair slice of the cake from central only body together into one funding mechanism. It government and do you think research funding is is early days to say if that is having any impact on dominated by the Russell Group and the usual blue funding. Clearly, if you look at the percentage of sky allocations? research council funding coming into Wales, we Professor Jones: I think there are all sorts of issues ought to be getting more of that but I would be the there when you look at the distribution of research first to admit that that is as much to do with the funding. Of course research funding does not just strength in the sector as with research council policy. happen in universities. As I said earlier, because of Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
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24 June 2008 Professor Merfyn Jones and Ms Amanda Wilkinson the distribution of corporate R&D, relatively little Professor Jones: We are but not so much through of that happens in Wales. In Wales we are Higher Education Wales. We are certainly particularly peculiarly dependent on universities to collaborating in order to try to do that. That is the sustain research. If you look at the figures, we should key to it because many of our science departments probably be getting a bit more of that research are a bit on the small side, even within each council money and money from other sources. That institution, but if you put them together with other is in part because all of this money is not distributed institutions they become very significant. by formula; it is distributed in competition. So it is all to do with the strength of the competition. Yes, Q759 Alun Michael: I think some of us have there is a huge degree of concentration of research in welcomed the engagement of Higher Education a relatively small number of units. It is quite Wales with Members of Parliament in the last year extraordinary the degree of concentration of or so, and perhaps the upping of the game and that research. It is not just institutions in Wales that have relationship might help. found it rather more diYcult; many others do as Professor Jones: Absolutely. well. Q760 Alun Michael: Can I go to the question of the Q756 Mark Pritchard: To help the Committee, attraction of students from the rest of the UK? I am Professor, is there a particular example of a sure you would want to say that Welsh universities university in Wales, not necessarily Bangor to help are very successful at this. What are you seeing as the yourself, where if the increase in research funding trends? What have been the recent trends and what was given, Wales’s global competitiveness or are you predicting for the future in terms of the industrial base would be enhanced? numbers applying from England to Welsh higher education institutions? Professor Jones: I think so very definitely. There are Professor Jones: The figures are diYcult to interpret, a number of universities in Wales where that would partly because the rules have changed. What would make a huge diVerence. I was quoting last week a concern us, and we really need to wait until the figure—and this comes from MIT—that in order autumn when we see the acceptances to know quite really to have a major impact on a regional economy what has happened, is if there were to be a reduction you need a research income of about £40 million a in the number of students from England, or indeed year. Certainly the research universities, obviously from the rest of the EU, coming to Wales. There are Bangor and Swansea, are not yet in that category; we at least some signs—it is really too early to see it as are more at about the £20–£25 million per year. V a trend I think—that would allow us to worry. Cardi of course is over that point. If that step Certainly, something like 96%, I think I am right in change were to happen, I think we would see a very saying, of students in England go to English major impact on the Welsh economy. I have no institutions. We are talking about a very small doubt about that. segment of the English market.
Q757 Alun Michael: Before going on to the main Q761 Alun Michael: Can I try to push you there? question, can I stick with this question of research You say there are some signs that we need to worry funding? What measures, if any, should be taken to about it. There is a good piece of advice that if there try to increase research council funding? Martyn are things to worry about, worry early. Taking your asked you about the relationship with the point that we cannot be conclusive until we see the Department of Innovation, Universities and Skills numbers actually coming and the figures in the but what about the specific role of the research autumn, what about the figures applying? Is that council? where there is a worrying trend? Professor Jones: All of that money is won Ms Wilkinson: There has been this year some competitively. In a sense, it is our responsibility; we reduction in the numbers of those applying, but we should be putting in stronger bids and perhaps have to weigh that against the fact that the number lobbying harder for the bids. I think we do very well of choices applicants can make has moved from six but we need to do better. I honestly do not believe institutions to five institutions, which is what makes Y that it is driven by any kind of policies at the research it particularly di cult this year to make a judgment. council level. On the other hand, we do need to be aware that there are other substantial funds going Q762 Alun Michael: Given that we are talking about into research in other parts of the United Kingdom, universities and the mathematical capacity within either directly from corporate investment or from the universities to work out and predict what the regional development agencies, which have made a impact of six to five would be, is the number of big impact of direct investment in research in other applications lower than you would have predicted? parts of England, particularly the north-west of Professor Jones: The truth of the matter is that going England for example. from six to five has not been equalised across all universities. There has not been an average drop. Everybody has gone to diVerent points on it, but I Q758 Alun Michael: In that event, if it is really in the think I would allow myself to say in this context that hands of the universities in Wales to do better I am worried about any trends that would indicate competitively, is your organisation seeking to that, and I think other evidence to this Committee enhance their capacity to do that? has also suggested this. Clearly as a sector we are Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
Ev 20 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
24 June 2008 Professor Merfyn Jones and Ms Amanda Wilkinson very dependent on attracting students from other high percentage of people at level 4, which is parts of the United Kingdom and from the rest of graduate level, in the workforce by 2020. Certainly, the world. as much as a citizen as somebody involved in higher education, I would be very disappointed if the Q763 Alun Michael: Are there decisions that have percentage of graduates in Wales was significantly been taken in respect of the higher education sector lower than in England. It is at present marginally in Wales that might have helped to encourage that lower and significantly lower than Scotland, but trend and are there steps that you consider should be clearly, if we are to survive in the innovation and taken to enhance the capacity of Welsh universities knowledge economy of the future, we must have to attract students in the next and subsequent years? people with higher level skills. Professor Jones: What research has been done in this area would suggest that there is not really a problem Q767 Alun Michael: So that is a “yes” really? in the way in which Welsh universities are perceived Professor Jones: It is a “yes”. by potential students from England. It is very Ms Wilkinson: That would be a “yes”. Our policy is diYcult to get a handle on whether there is an issue that we should be pursuing the Leitch target of 40%. or not. Certainly one of the things that would attract We cannot run an economic policy that is about more students would be perhaps a higher level of creating a knowledge-driven economy in Wales and capital expenditure so that when students do visit not look at how we are supplying that economy with universities in Wales they do see the same level of graduates. If we are going to be competitive, because accommodation and quality of buildings and so on we will need to be competitive in attracting those that they would find on an English campus. businesses, then we need good availability of properly qualified individuals. Q764 Alun Michael: And you are suggesting that Chairman: I was very impressed with the evidence they do not? given by Corus to the Welsh Assembly Education Professor Jones: I am suggesting that it is beginning Committee recently. I think they were exploring the to look like that. relationships with major international companies like Corus. Q765 Alun Michael: What about things like maintenance and finance available to students Q768 Mr David Jones: Just reverting to the issue of directly? attracting students from the rest of the UK, would Professor Jones: That is the way of course that you say that overall the Welsh Assembly universities are coping with under-funding, by not Government’s policy on tuition fees has proven investing as much because you cannot not invest in beneficial or otherwise? staV and salaries and pension costs and so on. What Ms Wilkinson: I think it hard to say. It is clearly you can save on is investment on buildings. going to be appropriate at some point that that Ms Wilkinson: Certainly if one looks at national policy is reviewed, particularly because obviously it early student survey data, Welsh institutions still is a universal policy and one would want to look at score extremely highly in terms of student whether or not that has been worthwhile satisfaction, but if you look at some of the key expenditure and whether one would want to look at indicators, then clearly views about the learning and more targeted expenditure, for example. One would teaching infrastructure in Wales are somewhat lower also want to consider issues such as obviously the than they are elsewhere. I think that is a major need to fund EU students coming to Wales from that concern for us, particularly if we are looking to the particular fund. There has been some slight increase future; it is not just what happens now but it is the in the numbers of Welsh students choosing to study demographic predictions which are also key to us, in Wales, but it is not a huge increase. I would not which will make attracting students from England say there was a clear indication that Welsh and elsewhere much more important to us over the institutions are more attractive to Welsh-domiciled next five years or so. students as a result of the arrangements that have been put in place. Q766 Alun Michael: It would probably be useful to have any supplementary detailed information that Q769 Mr David Jones: What are your views as to you can provide for us, both now and subsequently. what might happen if that policy continues? Do you I am sure we would be interested. My final question: think that there is a danger that it will result in an obviously skills are enormously important to the under-funding of universities and the things that you Welsh economy and to the future of individual have been talking about—capital expenditure and students. Should Wales be adopting the Leitch adult so on? skills targets, bearing in mind the old device that Ms Wilkinson: We need to be clear. From our point “what don’t get measured don’t get done”? of view, the Welsh Assembly Government can run a Professor Jones: It is my belief very strongly that policy to support students, but what we need to Wales needs to be ambitious in terms of the skills ensure at the same time is that we are also providing base that we have. It seems to me that the Leitch the right and the same quality of higher education. position is very clear—and it is a Leitch assessment Quite clearly, we have concerns that our own for the United Kingdom but up to each funding needs need to be met, irrespective of administration how they respond to it—that the whatever decision is made in respect of support to needs assessment of the United Kingdom is a very students. Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 21
24 June 2008 Professor Merfyn Jones and Ms Amanda Wilkinson
Q770 Mr David Jones: Have you received any have to wait and see what the outcome of that reassurance over that from the Welsh Assembly particular review is to see whether or not our funding Government? needs can and will be addressed. Ms Wilkinson: Any reassurance about our funding? Q772 Chairman: Could I thank you for the evidence you have given us today and also for the various memoranda you have provided earlier. It has all Q771 Mr David Jones: Yes, if the policy is been extremely helpful to us in this inquiry. We look maintained? forward to receiving a memorandum from you. You Ms Wilkinson: As Professor Jones mentioned at the oVered to give us some information that Alun beginning of our evidence, he is shortly to chair a Michael requested. review of higher education in Wales, which will, I Ms Wilkinson: That is in relation to student flows hope, also look at our funding situation. I think we and future student trends.
Witness: Professor Philip Gummett, Chief Executive, Higher Education Funding Council for Wales, gave evidence.
Q773 Chairman: Good morning, Professor Professor Gummett: I am going to answer in similar Gummett. Could you briefly explain the role of the terms, I fear. I have drawn up a little balance sheet. Higher Education Funding Council for Wales and It is too long to present fully in oral evidence. how it interacts with Higher Education Wales? Professor Gummett: We are an Assembly Q776 Mr David Jones: What are the bottom lines? Government sponsored body set up under the 1992 Professor Gummett: The bottom line is quite diYcult Further and Higher Education Act at the point when to read—my writing is not very good! I would higher education responsibilities across the UK were emphasise three areas where it is possible to see separated between the diVerent territories within the advantages, but there are disadvantages that UK. So we sit alongside the English Funding correspond to this. One is in tailoring policy to more Council, the Scottish Funding Council and a rather local needs. There are a number of things I could cite diVerent arrangement in Northern Ireland. Our there. It is a growing list as policy diverges between responsibility is to disburse funds made available by the diVerent parts of the UK, but it comes down to the Assembly Government for higher education things like tailoring widening access policies in purposes in Wales, and also to be a principal source particular ways. It comes down to funding research of advice on higher education matters to the diVerently; diVerent levels of funding compared with Assembly Government. In addition, we have a England. It comes down to not pursuing the function in Wales diVerent from that in England in Equivalent or Lower Qualification policy in that we are responsible for the provision in initial England or to having what we regard as a world- teacher training. There is no equivalent to the leading programme for student placements in Training and Development Agency, nor is there an Wales, Graduate Opportunities Wales, which we do equivalent in Wales to the OYce of Fair Access in not think is replicated anywhere else in the UK and England. We do that also. We are a very cost- which is possible to do on our scale, and scale is quite eVective organisation. important in all of this. It comes down to funding for third mission activity by formula and therefore being quite interested to see the Sainsbury Report Q774 Chairman: Given your wide remit and given regard it as a great step forward to begin to do this that you need to work with other funding councils in England. Already in Scotland and Wales this is and various other bodies and have various joint familiar practice. We fund higher education meetings, are you confident that you have, for a generally by credit, which is not the case in England small organisation, suYcient capacity to deal with but is the case in Scotland as well, and which we the increasing number of cross-border issues that argue gives more flexibility about funding. It is appear now to be emerging? possible to tailor, first of all; secondly, it is possible Professor Gummett: I suppose it would be an to join up, and one reason we can fund by credit is unusual organisation that said it would not welcome because we have a credit qualifications framework more if it had it. I do not think we are unreasonably for Wales running at all levels. So we have that pressed. I think as long as we manage our staYng degree of continuity through all levels of the nimbly and carefully, we have suYcient to be able to education system, as is the case in Scotland but not maintain reasonable liaison across the UK with the in England. All of our higher education institutors parties with whom we interact particularly strongly. are all engaged with the Sector Skills Councils, which is replicated, we understand, by only one RDA region in England. We have a number of Q775 Mr David Jones: Given, as we have heard from things going on between departments in the Professor Jones, that higher education transcends Assembly Government, particularly in the third national borders and is truly international, would mission area where again we can operate in you say that devolution for Wales has been complementary ways. So tailoring is one thing; beneficial for higher education in Wales? joining up is the second; and the third, and these are Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
Ev 22 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
24 June 2008 Professor Philip Gummett linked, is accessibility. It is possible with our small that institutions in Wales are less able to invest in number of institutions to have all the Vice capital, and we have less capital funding available Chancellors and all the chairs of governing bodies essentially to give to them than is so elsewhere in the and the members of the funding council round the UK. You have already heard evidence about what same table, just about, and to have a dialogue at that that means. It means that if you go round a campus level. It is very diYcult to do that once you move in Wales, you are not going to see quite the same as beyond our scale. It means that you can have quite you do if you go round some campuses in England personal, detailed knowledge of what is going on now in terms of the quality of the relatively recently and that there is lots of access to Ministers and built buildings. The second thing is in terms of Assembly Members. If I were to run the negative capacity to invest in teaching, which is not to say that side, I would start with those same things and say existing staV are not working extremely hard and that those same three things about accessibility are eVectively, but in terms of modernising, there are also negatives. It can be very personal; it can be very issues there. The third is in terms of research. There accessible, so accessible that you know you are going was discussion earlier about the fact that Welsh to catch up with who said what to whom, and so higher education wins less than one might wish from Y there are di culties there, too. In terms of tailoring, the research councils. There are a number of reasons we had some discussions earlier about funding for that, and some of those were gone through V priorities; if di erent choices are made about earlier, and some of that is to do with scale and scope funding levels, that can be positive or negative. At of departments. That is why we are driving so hard the moment, the evidence we have presented to the to try to get collaboration between departments and Assembly Government is that it is negative, that putting together Bangor University with CardiV and there is a gap in funding between Wales and the rest Swansea, for example, in cognitive neuroscience, of the UK. There are complexities about student which is a world-leading research operation now, or flows. Perhaps the last thing I might say is this. On an institute of mathematical and computational joining up, just to resume a theme raised earlier, it is sciences with about 70 or 80 people. We realised that in the relations with Whitehall where devolution has there are lots of mathematicians in Wales but they led to issues about joining up. We have heard were hidden in civil engineering and other discussion about DIUS earlier. You will have seen in our submission to you a concern expressed about departments. Essentially we forced them to come what seems an inevitable direction of travel, given out, declare themselves, and unite within an Institute the structure of that Department. I will happily of Mathematical and Computational Sciences, come back to that. We have had references to the which is now a very considerable force. We have Medical Research Council transition into the new activity between Bangor and Aberystwyth across a OSCHR arrangement, which I am very clear was number of research streams where they are begun without realisation in the Treasury that the integrating these research activities and essentially MRC had a UK-wide remit. It was trying to take the doubling the size of their departments. What we Department of Health’s research budget and seek to hope is that that will enable more ambitious do something with it but to put it with MRC without proposals to go into research councils, which would appreciating initially that MRC had a UK-wide be more successful in winning larger prizes, but time budget. I would say the same thing about the great will tell. The merger that we took through between debate about the future of the research assessment CardiV University and the College of Medicine has exercise in March/April 2006 where again it is very already demonstrated the value of that degree of clear that in moving towards a radically diVerent scale in research co-cooperation because they have method of assessing research funding for England, gone up in research funding tremendously since that the Treasury did not take account of the fact that the merger. Some of the research issues, as Merfyn Jones RAE (Research Assessment Exercise )was a UK- was saying, are to a degree within the scope of the wide process and was seen as an activity of great institutions themselves to address by putting in place importance in other parts of the UK. The bottom the organisational arrangements that enable them to line is moving, I guess I would say. be more ambitious, but part of it also is about having enough bodies on the ground relative to competitors Q777 Mr David Jones: That was very helpful. You as well. One is trying to deal with that by bringing have just mentioned the funding gap, which is people together, but it would be better, given that we obviously a matter of considerable concern to you. are running from behind and therefore as always What are the medium to long-term implications if when trying to catch up having to run faster, if we that gap is not addressed and how would you say it could inject a bit more pace into that process by V should be addressed? investing in more sta in key research areas. Professor Gummett: I think the first thing is that the institutions in Wales have done a very good job, as Q778 Mr David Jones: But that requires closing the has been indicated already, in managing within this funding gap? particular financial environment. As has been said, Professor Gummett: That requires additional the results of the national student survey, for funding. example reflect very well on higher education in Wales, and there are other similar indicators. Where I think the problem falls is in terms of investment in Q779 Mr David Jones: How should that be capital, first of all, and we have very clear evidence achieved? Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 23
24 June 2008 Professor Philip Gummett
Professor Gummett: I fear I am the wrong person to things of that sort, rather than massive new answer that. We work within the grant that we investments. I anticipate too that they are going to receive from the Assembly Government and we find themselves swamped by massive demand from advise on the consequences of that grant as we do in more or less every town in England saying can we papers such as our funding gap paper. have one of these, please, we would like a university too. It is going to be very interesting to see how this Q780 Mr David Jones: But the grant is insuYcient at process is managed. the moment? Professor Gummett: The advice we have given is that over the last three years when we have been doing Q783 Chairman: Given the challenges that you have this analysis there has been a growing gap in funding outlined very comprehensively, could you explain to between Wales and England, yes. us briefly how you interact with Higher Education Wales as a kind of, for want of a better word, advocacy role for higher education? What is the Q781 Mr David Jones: DIUS’s review contemplates relationship and should you not be creating some more higher education institutions in England and kind of a united front to explain some of the the Secretary of State has asked the Higher problems that you have outlined to the public—not Education Funding Council for England to lead the just to the Welsh Assembly Government—and then debate on this. What are the implications for the maybe with a higher awareness of the challenges that higher education sector in Wales of new centres in face you perhaps you would have a much better and England and is HEFCW engaging in the debate, stronger response from the Welsh Assembly too? Government. Professor Gummett: We are not engaging in the Professor Gummett: There are, I am sure, things that debate about the new “University Challenge”, which between us in HEFCW and our colleagues in Higher I take it to be the reference here, because that is an Education Wales we could and should be doing to England-only exercise. We would be concerned if explain rather better to the public at large, the there were significant investments in higher Assembly and surrounding organisations as it were education on the English side of the border, for all the reasons that have been given earlier about the what the value of higher education is. I am quite sure competitive pressures that they would generate, but we need to raise our game in that regard, but in terms I am not all that concerned in some ways about this of forging alliances and things of that sort there are V exercise. The amounts of money involved do not very di erent roles here. We are an Assembly seem to me to be huge. There is a little bit of growth Government-sponsored body; our powers come on an English scale in student numbers coming through Acts, our funding comes through the through this. I think it is going to be a very Assembly Government, we work within our annual interesting process to see how this moves forward. I remit letter which gives guidance and comes from was doing some sums last night looking at the figures the Minister, so we are in that sense the instrument in the English document, just scaling them for Wales of the Assembly but we are also the adviser to the by roughly dividing by 20 and seeing what that Assembly Government and so we try to operate in a looked like. I would say, in relation to the early way, in our relationship with the Assembly phases of this process in England, that we are Government where we can be seen as being fully already spending—and bear in mind that a lot of this responsive to guidance coming from the Assembly discussion in England is about prospective funding, Government, but also quite robust in the advice that it is not actually happening yet—on developing a we give about that guidance and any issues over higher education presence in the heads of the valleys implementation of it that we think the Minister or at least equivalent, and arguably slightly more, than oYcials should hear, but ultimately they will decide the funding which is going in in England and across the process and we cannot gainsay that. In our England to this whole range of activities. So I am not relationship with Higher Education Wales—and entirely sure what to make of this English initiative. others would need to endorse or deny this—we try to It may be one of those of which one might eventually operate on a basis of no surprises first of all, of trying say there is less to it than meets the eye. to make sure that in so far as it is politically possible we keep each other alert to developments. There are Q782 Mr David Jones: Are you not engaging in the times when it is not but in so far as it is my sense is debate because you are precluded from doing so or that it is a mature relationship, it is the sort of because you do not think it appropriate to do so? relationship that one would want, where from the Professor Gummett: We do not have any right of funding council point of view one can talk to the access to the debate. I think what is going on is the organisation which represents the institutions in a HEFCE—and you really need to ask them—are fairly frank, oV the record way and think about trying to work out now how to take this forward; things jointly. We may agree to act in the same way they are looking at partnerships. I would be or we may agree that we are going to have to act in surprised if they were looking at very many brand diVerent ways, but we are not surprising each other new higher education institutions. They are much particularly when we do that. We try above all to more likely, I would imagine, to be looking at ensure that whatever the issue at stake is we agree possibilities for liaison between HE and FE about what the facts are, even if we place diVerent institutions, for outreach centres of various kinds, interpretations on them. Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
Ev 24 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
24 June 2008 Professor Philip Gummett
Q784 Alun Michael: We heard earlier about the Professor Gummett: There has been. worry that has been expressed in a variety of quarters elsewhere about the decline in the number Q787 Alun Michael: And what about applications of applicants from England to Welsh higher by students from one part of Wales to another, from education institutions. Taking for granted the South Wales to North Wales or vice versa? business that we need to see the outcome in October Professor Gummett: I do not have detail on the latter and all the rest of it and cutting to the chase, is the to hand but I could get it. Certainly there has been decline in applications from England worrying, an increase in students from Wales applying within what do you think can be done to increase the Wales, yes. One of the things that has come out of number of applications and how important do you the marketing work is that there are some students think it is? from England who are attracted to Wales because it Professor Gummett: In terms of your earlier is distinctive and diVerent; there seem to be some reference to sage advice, we did start to worry early who are being deterred because it is distinctive and and we, jointly with Higher Education Wales, have diVerent as well. That sort of tension is not unusual commissioned some market research into this. We in any sort of marketing environment. There is have had initial phases of that work and we sent the also—and this was the interesting discovery—a researchers back to do a bit more. As our evidence really quite significant number who do not seem to to you indicated, we are seeing some changes in have thought about Wales at all, so in terms of what patterns of application. It is very diYcult, for the can be done, that is something that we are wanting reasons we have already given, to say with any to probe a little bit more, to see is there is in fact a firmness at the moment whether or not these are potential market there that could be addressed. blips or whether they are trends. Since the Then, though, we get into some quite diYcult issues introduction of variable top-up fees in England and about branding, and again if you had Merfyn and then a year later in Wales there has been such Amanda here they might well wish to say to you turbulence in the system, with all sorts of strange something about the dilemmas over whether one things happening—students rushing to enter and brands Welsh higher education or whether one not taking gap years in order to get under the wire brands Wales as part of the UK higher education. It before the new fee regime and that sort of thing, then is quite a delicate issue. the relaxation afterwards—actually interpreting Y what is going on is extremely di cult. As has also Q788 Alun Michael: You referred to the market been said, the students who come from England into research and you said you sent them away to do Wales, although very large relative to the Welsh some more; when is that research going to be higher education population, are very small relative available because, clearly, it would be of interest? to the English one, so only a very slight variation on Professor Gummett: Quite soon; it is weeks rather the English side can have a big impact one way or the than months away. other; it is very, very turbulent and diYcult to understand. Nevertheless, it has seemed to us that whereas in England with the introduction of variable Q789 Alun Michael: We might be able to see that fees there was a drop in applications, followed by a before the summer then. rise which has now restored the position above Professor Gummett: Yes. where it had been before, in terms of English applicants to Wales that has not happened. There Q790 Alun Michael: That would be helpful. Powys, was a rising curve, it dropped, it has not yet risen for example, has no university of its own, nor do the back to the point where it was before that. neighbouring English counties of Shropshire and Herefordshire as such. How do you make sure that there is adequate part-time provision in that part Q785 Alun Michael: What can be done about it? of Wales? Professor Gummett: There is still a question about Professor Gummett: We did do a joint review with whether it will rise back or not, and the second thing HEFCE three years ago when there was a lot of is to understand what is going on. It is not excitement being raised in Herefordshire and economically rational for an English domiciled Shropshire about the need for new higher education student to be deterred from coming to Wales V provision, and our colleagues in HEFCE because of the di erent fee support regimes because appreciated very quickly that anything they did it costs them the same whichever side of the border would impact on Wales. We did a joint exercise on they study, but it may be that some are susceptible that and the long and the short of it was that the to the syndrome on the plane or the train where you problem began to dissolve as the inquiry proceeded. discover that the passenger in the next seat has paid V The consultants we sent in to talk to the various adi erent price, and it may be that that is a factor. people who had been saying there is a problem came It may be that there are issues to do with staying at back saying when you probe them on their reasons home. It is a UK-wide trend that students generally the arguments collapse. We also had the consultants are staying nearer to home and again if one is go and do some survey work of young people in looking at migration across borders that could be a schools and people in FE colleges as well. The significant factor. overall conclusion was that there is no sign of a clear problem in Powys, there is very high participation Q786 Alun Michael: Is there an equivalent increase rate in Powys, but there may be latent demand for in Welsh students applying to Welsh universities? part-time or vocational courses, but the trouble with Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 25
24 June 2008 Professor Philip Gummett latent demand is that it is very hard to know how to go forward, and we were quite disappointed and bring it up to the kind of visibility. The issue further made that very plain at the time when eventually it would be then about the fact that it would be such did not go forward. The logic of it did seem to us to small numbers. What we found through this work be very well expressed in the document that was put was that you could go to an individual firm and they out by the institutions themselves. Since then there say, yes, I need two people trained and you think have been various flurries of activity and you will no how do I deliver to two people? It is the economics doubt be aware that the current minister and the of it. The answer, it seems to us, lies through work First Minister have put in train further work on that, between HE/FE. You had the principal of Coleg and we shall see what that comes to. On the more Powys here last week, did you not, John Stephenson, general picture the issue is about trying to recognise and as I recall he said that Coleg Powys, which runs that we are where we are in terms of the distribution right through Powys in four locations, works closely of institutions and their current size, but we can with four higher education providers from make a lot more of it by working together. memory—I may not have caught that quite right— and it seems to us that that is the way in which one Q795 Alun Michael: With respect—and I do not might be able to maintain local provision on some want to take too much time—if the argument is that scale within an area where the population density is compelling, is it not something that your council quite low and where there is no real evidence from ought to be more compelling about? the detailed work done that there is unsatisfied Professor Gummett: We operate within a legal demand. framework which we have to respect, so that does provide us with a constraint. In other areas we are Q791 Alun Michael: Perhaps it would be interesting seeing something very positive. For example, not to see that work that you referred to. If I could just much talked about is what is going on in south-west ask one other question, what has come out from a Wales where very quietly and very modestly, but number of comments has been the importance of really quite innovatively, between Swansea critical mass in terms of research, in terms of profile University, Swansea Metropolitan University and and so on. What approach are you taking to Trinity College, Carmarthen there is now a universities that do not have that critical mass? triangular relationship which is integrating a whole There has been talk for ages of a merger between the series of their administrative functions from student University of Glamorgan and UWIC and the records and libraries, and it oVers all sorts of University of Newport in order precisely to get that possibilities for developing higher education in that critical mass, yet everything seems stalled. Are you region. I am not aware of anything quite like it in the going to get that moving? rest of the UK in terms of the range of activities that Professor Gummett: There are two parts to your they are seeking to bring together. question if I understand it correctly, one about Alun Michael: It sounds a compelling message. critical mass in research and the other about critical mass in relation to teaching and so on. Q796 Mr Martyn Jones: Is there adequate UK-wide co-ordination of higher education policy at a Q792 Alun Michael: And profile. government level? Professor Gummett: If one were designing a higher Professor Gummett: May I ask which government? education system for Wales from scratch— Q797 Mr Martyn Jones: You take your pick. Q793 Alun Michael: You would change the Professor Gummett: There is an issue. You heard geography. earlier about the issues in relation to DIUS and I Professor Gummett: That would be quite helpful, but made some comments fairly directly about the it would lose many of the distinctive features which Treasury in relation to the RAE and the Medical make it attractive, so it would be double-edged, but Research Council earlier. We make the point in our it probably would not end up looking like it does. submission to you that perfectly naturally and Part of what we are trying to do therefore—and this understandably it seems to us there is a concern from has been going on since 2002—is to encourage our the devolved point of view about the way that DIUS institutions to be more ambitious, not to say we are will now work because it just seems absolutely this size in this place and all we can manage therefore natural if you have within one organisation the is to go for these kinds of prizes. responsibility for research councils and the responsibility for English higher education to start Q794 Alun Michael: Is this a yes then? to look for ways of building something greater out Professor Gummett: On south-east Wales do you of those parts, but the problem is that the research mean or more broadly? We certainly think there are councils are UK-wide and we might have the issues in south-east Wales. When the discussions Medical Research Council story all over again. We took place several years ago, following the are concerned about that and we are also concerned publication of the Assembly Government’s about the way that so many documents emerge from Reaching Higher strategy, there was as you will be Whitehall that show, from our perspective, aware discussion about potential mergers. We saw a insuYcient awareness of diVerences across the UK. business case consultation document published I might cite the Sainsbury Report and I hope I am which seemed to my council to make a compelling right in saying that there are only two references to case—and we said so at the time—for that merger to Wales in that document and both of them are Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
Ev 26 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
24 June 2008 Professor Philip Gummett incorrect; there is a reference to a no longer existing Q801 Mr David Jones: I would like to ask you about WDA and a reference to the fact that we apparently funding for cross-border collaborative projects. We fund the further education sector which we do not. have had a submission from CardiV University It is disturbing when one finds a report which is which says that “There is great potential for highly ostensibly about the UK science and innovation productive collaborations between CardiV and system and to then read it and either see things like English HEIs but there are challenges in securing that or to say to oneself is this about England only funding for such initiatives from the respective or is this about the whole of the UK; it is not an funding councils. There are often common interests uncommon experience to find it quite diYcult to be and objectives across the UK and, as such, it would sure which is meant, and if there are funding be helpful if the various administrations could consequences what they are. I do think therefore consult and consider a common way forward.” Do that there is an issue here about understanding in you recognise these obstacles to collaborative Whitehall about devolution. It takes two to tango projects? though so I am not trying to place all the Professor Gummett: No. I have been in discussions V responsibility at one end of the relationship. with Cardi University—since you mention the particular case—for several years now about cross- border collaborative possibilities. We have had Q798 Mr Martyn Jones: How eVective then is the discussions with the English Higher Education UK-wide co-ordination of workforce planning— Funding Council about this and we established with you probably heard the question before about them a very clear understanding that if a proposal healthcare professionals and teachers? came from a university on the Welsh side or the Professor Gummett: That is quite diYcult for me to English side of the border about doing something answer because we do not intersect with it in the way jointly, we would each look at it according to our that the question implies. The discussions that go on normal criteria for making decisions. People come between universities and the health services on either with ideas all the time and sometimes we would say side of the border about nursing, paramedics and so yes and sometimes not, so we would each look at the on are ones which they conduct, we do not directly proposal according to our normal criteria and if we engage in those. The discussions that take place both felt there was advantage in it, we would find a similarly on teacher training across the border—we way to fund it. It is true to say that there are some are not involved in those discussions but we are legal constraints here and since we have not yet involved in trying to administer changes within crossed that bridge there might be some stumbling Wales on teacher training but we are not involved in blocks that we have not identified, but we do not Y any sort of forum. think that should actually be very di cult at all. If one thinks of a jigsaw puzzle I do not see why we in Wales should not fund the Welsh piece and the Q799 Mr Martyn Jones: Should you be, given that English funding council fund the English piece, slot you are supposed to be funding it? the two together and make something that is bigger Professor Gummett: The medical world is a very than the sum of the parts. Basically, that is the advice separate world from us lesser mortals I often find that both funding councils have given the and there seem to be ways of taking things forward universities involved in that discussion and said to in that field which seem to us sometimes to seal them, “Come back to us with a coherent proposal themselves oV as it were from the rest of the world, and we will look at it.” That is where we stand. but it would not hurt to have some scope for wider discussions on this. In saying that I am honestly not Q802 Mr David Jones: CardiV are not very happy sure what the right mechanisms would be and it has with that though, are they? to be reflected too and understood too that in the Professor Gummett: I would have to ask them. area which I do know something about, which is teacher training, the modelling work which is done Q803 Mr David Jones: This is what they tell us. within the Welsh Assembly Government to Professor Gummett: They have not come back to us determine how many teachers it believes should be with a proposal; I would like to see the proposal. trained in Wales, is done with very careful attention to what is happening in England, so the modelling Q804 Mr David Jones: If it resolves itself to a for Wales takes account of what is happening in question of policy and the policy varies on either side England, it is not as if it is just ignoring it or anything of the border then the project is less likely to succeed. like that. Whether it is done right or wrong history Professor Gummett: I am sorry, perhaps I have not will tell, but I know that if there is not join-up in the expressed myself very well. We have not had a people talking to each other, then certainly in the concrete proposal; we have had suggestions and modelling that goes on there is very careful analysis. ideas but I appear before audit committees and I am not going to advise my council to commit millions of pounds to something without proper due diligence Q800 Mr Martyn Jones: Do you know if that and a proper proposal, and we have not had that. modelling takes place in the healthcare area? We have gone back to CardiV and the other Professor Gummett: I do not know how it is done in university with whom they are talking, and our the healthcare sector so it would be wrong for me to English counterpart, and said bring us something we try and answer it. can get our teeth into and look at properly and we Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
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24 June 2008 Professor Philip Gummett will see what we can do, but at the moment we have Q808 Chairman: If I could pursue this question of not had anything. I do not think it is the case that research funding, during the period of HEFCW’s there are policy barriers and what we have both said, existence have you succeeded in improving the both the English funding council and ourselves, is proportion of funding that came from the research that if there were then we would aim to break them councils? In your memorandum you note that it is down because we think if it makes sense to do lower than in England and you say it is about 3.5%. something then we should find a way forward. How has that varied? Professor Gummett: It has not moved much over the Q805 Mr David Jones: What are the legal constraints five years now that we have been trying to work on Y that you mention? this. It is a di cult problem, for the reasons I Professor Gummett: Unless I discover anything else, outlined earlier, and of course it is dynamic. It is at the moment our understanding is simply that we dynamic because everyone is raising their game, so could only fund the Welsh end and the English all the English, all the Scottish and all the Northern funding council the English end of a joint activity, Irish competitors for research council funding are but we do not see any reason why, that said, we also raising their game and in that sense actually should not do that, so long as the two pieces of the staying still is itself not an inconsiderable jigsaw fit together in some sensible fashion and we achievement. Our problem is that in order to get up both think there is a benefit and advantage to what we think would be a more appropriate figure according to our normal criteria for investment, we like 4.5%—given that Wales is about 5%—as in the do not see why we should not do it. racing metaphor I used earlier, we are running from behind and we have therefore got to run faster. The issue then is about being able to invest in order to run Q806 Mr David Jones: Can you give us some faster. That said, we are doing—as we indicated in examples of successful cross-border collaboration? our evidence—a number of things, and the research Professor Gummett: Of that sort, university to councils have been very helpful in this regard, they university, of the kind that they are speaking of have laid on various kinds of events in Wales to there, no, because we have not had any proposals come and talk about what they do, tell people about come through to us, but in other contexts, yes. We work with the research councils on joint their priorities, give help on how proposals get arrangements. For example, Bangor University has written and those kinds of things. A series of things a centre for bilingualism research which is co- is being done about this, therefore, but it is a tough founded by the Economic and Social Research one and we are simply holding the line. Council and ourselves; we have a Wales Educational Research Network, similarly co-funded by ESRC and ourselves; we have joined the Engineering and Q809 Chairman: But a decade ago all this was Physical Sciences Research Council (EPSRC )in a happening, it was clearly identified a decade ago. number of ventures where they have been trying to You used the words earlier in your evidence build scientific research capacity across the UK and ambition and a lack of ambition, would it be the case the other funding councils have gone in the same that you are also part of the problem as well in way, and we have all said that if the winner of one of HEFCW in that you also lack ambition? these competitions falls in one of our territories we Professor Gummett: I would accept the charge that will come in with funding as well. There is actually a we are part of the problem in so far as we are not able case which involves CardiV where I guess we would to invest more heavily in this area than we have done have to say it is a very complex funding package, because we are stretching the funding in other because CardiV is part of a consortium led from dimensions as well and we have to have balance Lancaster University in the field of operations across the whole array. We have already pushed research where the funding is now coming from funding latterly in the direction of research, but EPSRC, the English funding council and the Welsh there is a limit to how far it is essentially safe to do funding council, so we do those things and we find that without starting then to do damage to the ways through any little diYculties that might crop teaching, which is of course the major part of the up. We are quite open and I do hope I have not given activity of the universities. We have made the impression that I see any serious barriers in submissions on various occasions in the public policy terms to the sorts of things we are speaking of, spending rounds to say how we would use additional but what we do need is a serious worked-up proposal funds if they were to become available. Short that we could analyse, do due diligence and take a essentially of robbing teaching to pay research there proper view. is a limit to what we can do in that direction, and that is why we are going down the line instead of trying Q807 Mr David Jones: Would not such projects be to encourage more ambitious proposals and to easier if there was simply one funding council? encourage restructuring to underpin. The game in Professor Gummett: Possibly, but equally one might winning the really big research prizes is about having lose the advantages of being able to play both ends teams with scale and scope, so that they would be against the middle. The key thing in all of this—and large enough but also covering enough inter-related it goes back to our earlier discussion about winning research areas to be credible competitors against research grants—is actually getting ideas and similar teams elsewhere. Given, as was explained proposals; are they there, are they good? earlier, the scale of most of the departments in our Processed: 17-12-2008 13:34:37 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG3
Ev 28 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
24 June 2008 Professor Philip Gummett universities, that is a tough one and the way we are Q813 Alun Michael: Could I just come in on that trying to go forward is through collaboration. That because given that Wales is a small proportion of the we are seeking to do quite actively I submit. whole of the UK does that not mean that we need to do more for people to understand the distinctions, understand the needs of the higher education sector Q810 Chairman: You have already touched earlier in in Wales, and that therefore the Welsh Assembly your evidence upon the problem of making the Government should be encouraging you to take on Department of Innovation, Universities and Skills a sort of ambassadorial role for higher education in aware of the Welsh dimension; how can you tap into Wales. Is that encouraged or discouraged? the UK-wide elements of that department more Professor Gummett: It is encouraged. I shall be going eVectively? Do I get a sense that there is a dialogue back to CardiV this afternoon and back to London that is only going on with the Welsh Assembly tomorrow evening to go to Central Hall for the Government and you are not really reaching out to launch of the concordat on researchers, which I Whitehall and Westminster at all? Have you met the submit is part of this public relations role, being Secretary of State for Wales, for example? there simply to be seen to be there along with the Professor Gummett: Personally, no. other parties.
Q811 Chairman: Why is that? Q814 Alun Michael: My point is really that you said Professor Gummett: Simply that there has not been a few moments ago that the same problems existed an occasion where it has arisen; there has not been a when we had the Welsh OYce and DTI, as indeed natural occasion for doing so. they did. There is always a changeover of staV within Westminster departments, it is the bane of everybody’s lives, but it is also the way that people Q812 Chairman: Some of these problems are easily get experience and develop so it means that you have addressed—I am not saying solved—if you actually got to accept that as a fact of life. I am not clear in knock on his door because he is the voice of Wales your response to the Chairman whether you are in Whitehall and Westminster. actually doing the foreign service part of HEFCW’s Professor Gummett: With respect what I would say job with the enthusiasm that perhaps is necessary. is that we convey the message into these departments Professor Gummett: Others would have to judge frequently enough, the problem is a problem of that, it would not be for me to do so. culture and personnel. It is one thing to put a message in at the top—and I accept that perhaps Q815 Alun Michael: I was asking you to judge it. there is more that we should do there—but the Professor Gummett: I would say I spend a great deal problem then is that it is the instinct that arises out of my time—for example, there is an organisation of working in an environment where the focus is called Funders’ Forum which brings together all the predominantly English. Then when you combine funding bodies and research bodies. That is a high that with the turnover of staV, what you find is that priority activity for me. It is meeting in a couple of you have developed relationships with one set of weeks time in London and I am cancelling other oYcials and they have changed, there is another lot things to be at that. I come to things in London now, and so you have to start again. There is a frequently in order to make sure that Welsh higher tension, therefore, in the dual functions of DIUS education— and it was there to a degree in the DTI before as well. We have to be a bit realistic about it; we are a very Q816 Alun Michael: Do people go away from those small part of the UK, we are 5%, and although we meetings saying “Gosh, the really impressive bit was will trumpet loudly and proudly about what we do, that guy who came and represented those exciting it is also easy to understand how, if you are dealing universities in Wales”? with the 80% odd that is England, it is quite easy Professor Gummett: You would have to ask them simply to forget—not to be malicious in doing so but that. simply to forget. That is part of what I mean about Chairman: Thank you very much for your evidence the cultural dimension. today. Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [SO] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 29
Tuesday 8 July 2008
Members present
Dr Hywel Francis, in the Chair
Mr David Jones Mark Pritchard Alun Michael Mark Williams
Witnesses: Mr Alan Woods, CEO, Skills for Justice, Mr Richard Jones, Country Manager, Skills for Justice, Ms Sue Hunter, Development and QA Manager, Skills for Justice and Ms Michelle Creed, Director—Wales, Lifelong Learning UK, gave evidence.
Q817 Chairman: Good morning. Bora da. For the Ms Creed: The Sector Skills Councils have UK record, could you introduce yourselves, please. councils or boards as part of their governance Mr Woods: I am Alan Woods, the Chief Executive structure; so the Sector Skills Agreements that have of Skills for Justice in the Sector Skills Council for been negotiated at country level will be drawn back the Justice Sector. together as part of the Sector Skills Councils’ Mr Jones: I am Richard Jones, Wales Country business planning process; and the business plan for Manager, with Skills for Justice. the Sector Skills Council will look for those areas Ms Hunter: Sue Hunter. I am the Development and where there is commonality across the UK and seek Quality Assurance Manager for Skills for Justice. to deal with those on a UK level; but, equally, Ms Creed: Bora da. I am Michelle Creed the obviously need to identify where there are things Director for Wales, Lifelong Learning UK. that are diVerent in diVerent countries and deal with those on a country level. Q818 Chairman: Thank you very much. The acoustics are not brilliant in this room, so do not be afraid to project your voices. Is there a Sector Skills Q823 Chairman: This inquiry is about cross-border Council for that? Could I begin by asking you a very issues, how do the Sector Skills Councils then deal simple question: are there separate Sector Skills with those precise issues of cross-border, Councils’ agreements for each of the four nations for particularly at the border? It seems to be quite acute every sector? in some areas like Northeast Wales. Mr Woods: Yes, I believe that to be the case. Ms Creed: May I respond by giving a specific example from my Sector Skills Council. Obviously Q819 Chairman: Could you tell us how that works we commend the written evidence from the out in a practical sense, given that labour markets individual Sector Skills Councils to you on all of and sectors do not always match national these points, but an example from the Lifelong boundaries? Learning sector would be that we have highlighted Mr Jones: Did you mean the Sector Skills in each of the four nations of the UK a need for Agreements that we have? enhancing the information learning technology skills—so the ability of a teacher to deliver learning Q820 Chairman: Yes. through technology. The way in which we are Mr Jones: Yes. For the vast majority I believe that seeking to progress that issue is again by drawing all Sector Skills Councils now have a Sector Skills representation from each of the four nations Agreement at Level 5. They are a true reflection of together to look at what the solution to that issue the needs of the employers of the sectors because will be; to look at how collectively and they have had to have been agreed with the collaboratively that can be funded to be moved employers in the sectors; and also partners, such as forward; and then to look at what the delivery for our sector we have agreements with the Welsh implications for that would be. Assembly Government, Jobcentre Plus, the Higher Ms Hunter: If I could just add, the whole basis on Education Funding Council and Careers Wales. which Sector Skills Councils operate is the development of national occupational standards which define the competence and describe Q821 Chairman: Where do the trade unions fit into competent performance in any given activity and that? task; and because those are developed for Mr Jones: I am sorry, that is the final one I missed countrywide application they have input from all the out, with Wales TUC. four nations and the practitioners of the four nations. That means any learning development or Q822 Chairman: With that particular point that I qualifications can be built on those national raised, the very fact that national boundaries do not occupational standards, which enables the in any way necessarily match labour markets, I transferability across borders, because you design would imagine that employers would have a very the qualifications based on the actual job roles and strong view about these matters. How, in a practical functions carried out by the individuals; I hope that sense, does this work? helps to explain it. Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
Ev 30 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
8 July 2008 Mr Alan Woods, Mr Richard Jones, Ms Sue Hunter and Ms Michelle Creed
Q824 Mark Pritchard: When developing the policy available is diVerent from the extent of the core for your respective SSCs, how much does the four remit. Capacity I think needs to be viewed in the nations approach work within that policy context of the resources that are made available to formation? us. I would not say there is an issue in terms of Mr Jones: From our particular area, social justice, capacity between England and Wales per se. There some of it is led centrally because of central is as much a capacity issue between coverage for the policies—for example, dealing with the Ministry of Southwest of England, the Southeast of England or Justice, the Crown Prosecution Service, the Court the Midlands. We have got a regional dimension to Service and then dealing with the police, especially take account of as well as a country dimension. when we have got issues that are non-devolved. Managing that £1.3 million over a very diverse remit Obviously justice is not devolved in Wales, however is challenging, I think it would be fair to say. certain parts of the work of the police is a devolved issue. Therefore, the policing issue is generally a Wales issue, whereas some of the other issues are Q827 Mark Pritchard: Although the potential for delivered centrally. possible disparities in diVerent parts of diVerent Mr Woods: I would also add, the governance regions in England does not necessary, if you like, arrangements within each individual organisation mitigate the impact of the disparity between Wales are set up so that each of the four countries have a and England? voice within the governance arrangements of the Mr Jones: If I could just give an example of that, individual organisations themselves. It is something again, from my sector where we have four conjoined within the relicensing of all Sector Skills Councils and distinct police forces in Wales. This has given us which Leitch recommends that is going to be a high an opportunity to work together on the skills agenda priority for the United Kingdom Commission on to bring the four forces together and have the Employment and Skills to take cognisance of, so commitment of the four chief constables to work that the voices of all four nations have equal weight together on any new initiatives with an all-Wales within the process. initiative.
Q825 Mark Pritchard: Do you think England takes Q828 Mark Pritchard: Finally, what policies could precedence in that? you identify in higher education that diVer from Mr Woods: I do not think it takes precedence. There England to Wales? are diVerences which the Committee is investigating Ms Creed: The Committee has already received a between various issues to do with funding provision response from Higher Education Wales which, as where there may be diVerent sets of monies the representative network for our part of our sector, available. I think one of the things for employers, we would obviously commend to you. One of the certainly within the private sector, is that the challenges that Higher Education Wales are boundaries between nations and regions are not focusing on is the diVerence of what they term the really that meaningful. They work, I think, on the “funding gap” between England and Wales; in that basis of their own economic units and markets. because of the nature of higher education, which What we have to do as Sector Skills Councils is make obviously sees itself as a global entity but obviously a sure there is a consistent support delivered where UK-wide entity as well, aspects of higher education V they need it and ensure the qualifications o ered in spending are fixed at a UK level; and then the each of the countries are transferable across the UK. resources that are made available to higher Certainly some of the responses for which the education in Wales put pressure on the institutions Committee has had evidence show that there is a in Wales in terms of, say, what Higher Education need for a consistency of approach across the UK, Wales would refer to as a “funding gap”, which because some of the organisations are trans-global certainly the sector would say is in the longer term organisations in their own right. It is our role in going to have an impact on the maintenance and trying to translate what is happening in each of those quality in Wales versus the levels of quality in nations for employers, and we are part of the glue of England. the system. I would not say that one has any preference over the other. It is our role I think to make sure that the interpretation of all four nations Q829 Mark Pritchard: I did say “finally” but given is one which employers understand. you have taken the time to read previous evidence for which the Committee, through the Chairman, is Q826 Mark Pritchard: Given the diVerence in size no doubt grateful, you will have identified that there between England and Wales, are there any issues of is a funding gap both in the provision of higher capacity in relation to you delivering what you need education. Within the same evidence, perhaps to deliver? supplementary evidence, there is a shortfall as far as Ms Creed: I think the question of capacity is raised research funding is concerned, which no doubt you frequently, and I think capacity has a direct relation have identified, and I think you are sort of agreeing to resources. Sector Skills Councils receive £1.3 today there are certain disparities, if not a shortfall, million in core resources to deliver their business on that funding for skills and training provision in across all of the constituencies they represent and the Wales. The cumulative impact of that, in my view, is UK nations. I think Leitch has adequately not particularly helpful to the people of Wales. What highlighted that the level of core funding made is your view? Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
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8 July 2008 Mr Alan Woods, Mr Richard Jones, Ms Sue Hunter and Ms Michelle Creed
Ms Hunter: If I could just pick up on that before Q832 Alun Michael: Would seeking those additional Richard answers. There are a couple of specific areas skills be triggered automatically by such a move? where for the learners there are issues about the Ms Hunter: In most cases, yes. diVerences between England and Wales in higher education: one is the funding of Foundation Degrees; and the other is the actual student fees Q833 Alun Michael: The third example I give is Y which vary quite considerably between England and police community support o cers, where obviously Wales. Those are issues for the learners which, given you have got a new set of challenges, some of which the fact that the infrastructure funding is not deemed relate to policing and some of which relate much suYcient in Wales, the impact of that means many more to my old profession of community work? more students and learners may move to England to Ms Hunter: Exactly the same. A whole suite of higher education, and therefore the fees diVerence national occupational standards that identify the will impact on them as well. activities that a community support oYcer carries out. It includes some standards that have come in from other Sector Skills Councils to show the Q830 Alun Michael: I just wanted to pursue one issue activities that have been taken over. really. It is diYcult sometimes for those outside the system to get under the skin of what you do, which is probably a challenge for you as well as a problem Q834 Alun Michael: Chairman, I have found the for us. I would just like to know how in the future, answers reassuring but I think, because it is helpful just as you do with interdisciplinary issues—to give if you work down to practical examples, it perhaps one example, the whole question of how people would be useful to have some supplementary analyse crime and disorder in their area; the evidence against those three examples of how that development of crime and disorder audits and things works in practice. like that require methodology and techniques—how Ms Hunter: Yes, we can do that.4 do you deal with that sort of issue, given that a lot of the people who need to be engaged with that will be Q835 Mr David Jones: I would like to return, if I outside the direct ambit of the Criminal Justice may, to funding gaps in further and higher education System? which I know is an issue that concerns you, and it is Ms Hunter: I think again this is where national also an issue on which we have already had evidence. occupational standards come in; because the For example, HEFCW have indicated the funding standards define all the functions and activities that gap in Wales in higher education was running at have to be carried out across the justice sector. In something in the region of £61 million. What would any partnership arrangements we encourage the you say are the consequences for employers of these sector to use the national occupational standards, disparities in the funding regimes from outside of the even with the partners who are coming in from the English/Welsh border? outside. There are a lot of generic national Ms Creed: The funding gap will cover such issues as occupational standards which are used by all the the development of the premises of a learning Sector Skills Councils, but if there are ones that are environment, which obviously is a critical part of the specifically about certain activities—for instance, student’s learning experience. It will impact upon the analysing intelligence data and so on—those are resources that the learning institution is able to there, and we would encourage the partner buy—the new technologies, the electronic SMART organisations who are working with our sector to Boards, suYcient access to e-learning to wider access use the relevant standards as well. access etc., and inevitably it will have an impact on the amount of funding that can be invested into the Q831 Alun Michael: Could I try another example, staV development of the individuals working in and that is youth oVending teams where, again, there those institutions. As you are hearing from both is a spread of diVerent professions and educational Fforum, on an FE basis, and from Higher Education backgrounds that come together, and again where Wales, for HE, England is increasing their there are cross-border as well as cross-disciplinary investment in these areas, whilst Wales funding has issues in places like Northeast Wales and parts of either remained capped or has declined in real terms. South Wales? It is diYcult at this particular juncture to say what Ms Hunter: Again, I would refer you to the same the impact would be; but I guess if you were to answer. The national occupational standards logically follow through, the questions one needs to encompass the whole of the activities in the justice look at will be: how will the staV delivering learning, sector. For instance, when a police oYcer moves into particularly as we move to more vocationally-based a youth oVending team, which happens quite programmes, who have a dual professionalism of frequently, the police oYcer will already have both teaching skills but also their underpinning demonstrated their competence against the national technical skills, how will they keep both sets of skills occupational standards for their police role; but suYciently up-to-date to be able to eVectively deliver when they move into the youth oVending team there the new vocational agenda that we are seeking to will be a number of additional national occupational push hard right across the UK? In terms of learning standards that reflect the additional work and the environment, not only will perhaps employers and change in role as they move into the youth oVending team. 4 Not printed Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
Ev 32 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
8 July 2008 Mr Alan Woods, Mr Richard Jones, Ms Sue Hunter and Ms Michelle Creed learners look at where they are going to learn to Ms Hunter: I do not think we are as a Sector Skills understand whether it is somewhere they want to go Council, but I think some of our colleagues to learn, staV undoubtedly (particularly near the probably are. borders) will be making a judgement about: do I Mr Woods: Perhaps Mr Jones answered some of want to go and work in a state-of-the-art college that your questions. There is evidence supplied by is 20 miles down the road that way, where they have colleagues in Lantra, which is the environment, had a substantial investment programme in the where they talk about specialist HE provision for premises, or do I want to go and work 20 miles in this example in veterinary services where there is no direction where perhaps they have not? One would provision. image that if the banding gap were to continue to sustain that we would see the issues on a series of Q839 Mr David Jones: We may come back to that diVerent levels. later on in the course of this session. Would you say that employers need more parity in qualifications Q836 Mr David Jones: Could I concentrate, please, and training on either side of the border? on employers per se. Given nowadays (and we have Ms Hunter: Absolutely. I think one of the things that had evidence already in the course of this inquiry) has come out from several of the Sector Skills that students are increasingly opting to study closer Councils is there are some specific examples in to home, so therefore your pool of students in due materials sent through to you but the diVerences course is probably going to be from the area in which between the Welsh Baccalaureate and the 14–19 they want to be employed, what eVect will this have diplomas in England and EU skills is a particular upon employers? I am thinking in particular of example. I think it was EU skills about start-dates. Northeast Wales where the border is almost invisible Although there were similarities between those for practical purposes, but there are a lot of major qualifications, one will start in 2009 and one will employers. What can you see the impact upon start in 2010. So there is a diYculty there for employers in particularly that part of Wales as employers, and the diVerences between the Young being? Apprenticeship Scheme and the Workplace Ms Creed: I think in the scenario you are Learning Pathways in the two countries. Where they highlighting, employers are customers of the are national employers, where they cover the four colleges. What employers anywhere are keen to do is countries, there is a confusion and they do not V buy high quality learning that is fit for purpose, and understand why it is a di erent qualification or a V that will mean the university or the college needs to di erent funding route in the two countries. I think be able to invest suYcient monies in ensuring that its that is a particular issue for them. course content remains valid and up-to-date; but it also needs to ensure that its staV are up-to-date. If Q840 Mr David Jones: Do you see any signs of the there is reduced investment over a long period of administrations in England and Wales moving time I think those two issues will become more of a towards trying to achieve that parity; or has there challenge for the institution and that will therefore been no such movement as yet? then have an impact on the quality of the product Ms Hunter: I think there is a lot of working together that the employer has access to. and talking together about the diVerent qualifications; but I do see the two governments diverging in many ways. Q837 Mr David Jones: Where will the employer look to in order to obtain that product? Ms Hunter: I think the issue as Michelle said is about Q841 Mr David Jones: So it is actually getting worse? quality and fit for purpose, and employers will go Ms Hunter: Potentially, but I do not think we have where the quality and fit for purpose training is being yet seen the impact of some of that potential. There delivered. The other issue that has been highlighted are slight diVerences between the credit and by EU skills, Energy and Utility Skills and the qualifications frameworks as well. Whilst the Automotive Sector Skills Council, is the issue that diVerence between the English framework and the where the funding for the learners going onto the Welsh framework is not as marked as the diVerences programmes is diVerent then the employers either between the English and Scottish frameworks, will opt for the country where the funding is higher, Sector Skills Councils and employers have to make or they will back-oV from taking up things like sense of the three diVerent qualification and credit apprenticeship frameworks because the frameworks. Not only that, but those also have to be combination of two diVerent sets of bureaucracy, articulated to the European qualifications and credit two diVerent lots of funding and two diVerent lots of framework. For employers and, I think, probably audit will make it too bureaucratic for them and they learners too there is a huge area for confusion here. V will back-oV altogether. That could have a long- What does that mean? Why is there a di erent one term impact on skills development. over there? We struggle sometimes in Sector Skills Councils to understand the diVerences, so what employers and learners have to struggle with is Q838 Mr David Jones: Are you noticing at this stage even greater. any change in attitude of employers as to where they Ms Creed: Can I just supplement that as well. I think are seeking their employees from, or is too early Sue has clearly outlined where we currently are. I days yet? think one of the lights on the horizon for us that we Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 33
8 July 2008 Mr Alan Woods, Mr Richard Jones, Ms Sue Hunter and Ms Michelle Creed must take account of is a major qualification reform Mr Jones: Yes. I believe that monies will follow over programme, which is called the UK Vocational but it is not a natural follow-through. If we want to Qualification Reform Programme, which is going to deliver any local training using local colleges, or be looking at, ironically, not including Scotland but local universities, they could not access that Train to England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and looking Gain money. to bring together a common accord as far as the credit and qualification systems are concerned. One Q849 Alun Michael: Because the finances are specific of the drivers behind the re-licence role of Sector to the college rather than to the location of the Skills Councils will be working within that new employment activities? framework to try and bring parity, esteem and a Mr Jones: Yes, because the Train to Gain money clearer understanding of how qualifications in would be kept in England and it would not V di erent nations will actually articulate together. necessarily follow into Wales.
Q842 Mr David Jones: So eVectively trying to return Q850 Alun Michael: There is also an issue that has to where we were 10 years ago? been raised in relation to the European Social Fund. Ms Creed: I am afraid my memory does not stretch If you have got specifically funded programmes, as I that far back. understand it, it cannot be delivered across the border in Wales by colleges based in England, which Q843 Mark Williams: Carrying on, on what you said therefore makes it more diYcult for colleges who about the confusion of employers and employees, want to support a deprived community which is have you picked up that that is particularly marked essentially a part of their catchment but is over the on the border where companies have got employees border. Is that an issue as far as you are concerned? from both sides of the border? Ms Hunter: It depends on the European Social Fund Ms Hunter: Yes, I think there was an example in the stream that they have got the project funding pack you had previously from one of the other through, and what the remit and scope of the project Sector Skills Councils—I think it was the financial bid was. If it specifically identified some activity in services one—where they have got funding for England and working with partners in England then Welsh students coming over the border into that would be true, yes. Gloucester College. The students needed to come to Gloucester to do the particular programmes, but the issue for the employers and the college was Q851 Alun Michael: So if a bid were to identify a identifying the funding. So they have to get need to work across the border then that would be fine; but if that point was not appreciated at the bid permission to bring the funding with them; whereas Y for the students based in England coming to the point that could lead to practical di culties later? Gloucester College it is almost automatic. Ms Hunter: I believe that is the case, yes. Mr Jones: It could also aVect where the college is actually based; so you may have the college that is Q844 Mark Williams: How challenging is it getting ideally placed to deliver that training, but because that funding to follow the student? the college is outside the bid area it would be Ms Hunter: From our understanding, from what the ineligible to deliver it. Financial Services Sector Skills Council has said, it is “diYcult and lengthy”. Q852 Alun Michael: One part of the equation, which again has already been touched on, is the question of Q845 Mark Williams: Is that an impediment for how the voice of business is heard in the areas of students to carry on? further and higher education. My understanding Ms Hunter: That is what they are saying. Not only Y Y and my experience is that that is particularly di cult is the process di cult and lengthy but sometimes in Wales where perhaps there are not the resources permission is refused to bring the funding with them. of headquarters-based companies to make a contribution to those sorts of discussions. So what Q846 Alun Michael: Is the fact that “Train to Gain” are the best structures in the cross-border context for is available in England but is not available in Wales making sure that those voices are heard? a significant issue as far as you are concerned? Mr Jones: I have to say in our sector, the justice Mr Jones: It is indeed, especially if we take for sector, we are very fortunate in that we do have example the HM Prison Service. We have three 100% engagement with all of our employers at the prisons in Wales, and the Prison Service is entitled to senior level, and also very good engagement with Train to Gain, but obviously Train to Gain does not those departments in HEIs who deal with the justice come into Wales, so there are marked diYculties sector. I do not think other sectors are as fortunate. there. Q853 Alun Michael: Perhaps the more commercial Q847 Alun Michael: So the Prison Service as a non- sectors. devolved service is eligible? Ms Creed: I think it is very much a sector by sector Mr Jones: It is indeed. based question. It will depend on, as you say, some sectors will have everything from very large Q848 Alun Michael: But a prison that is located in employers to very small employers; and every sector Wales is not? will have an employer engagement strategy that will Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
Ev 34 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
8 July 2008 Mr Alan Woods, Mr Richard Jones, Ms Sue Hunter and Ms Michelle Creed look at how both the voice of the small and large Q856 Mark Williams: We had some evidence from employer will be accessed. The way in which the Summit Skills Council that again talked about Lifelong Learning UK works as an organisation is the diVerence between Train to Gain, which is that we engage employers through the plethora of perceived to be well marketed, simple to access and networks that already face our sector. We are not has engaged employers, whereas the workforce interested in re-inventing the wheel; we are not development fund (which is available in Wales) is interested in getting employers to come to us if we poorly advertised, communicated and “not worth can go to them, so we are going to where they would the hassle”. naturally congregate already. As well as the general Ms Hunter: And quite complicated as well. collection of the voice through Fforwm, there are Mr Jones: Depending on which route you choose also the events that we would run in Wales where, for some of the training may be 100% funded, there will example, we consult on the national occupational be a contribution; but we do believe that an standards, to which we have already alluded; and we announcement is going to be made by the Assembly would use electronic online support to also access next week on the way forward with the Sector diVerent employers to get views on diVerent topics Development Fund. and matters. I think there is a plethora of ways that we can do that, but I think the message has to be very Q857 Mark Williams: We talked about—again, definitely in collaboration and in partnership your phrase—about the divergent policy between because I am sure the Committee will have already the two countries. How diYcult is it to broker heard that engagement with employers is a challenge partnerships between Wales and England? Is it more for many partners throughout the system, and what diYcult to broker partnerships across the border employers do not want are 101 people arriving on than within England or Wales? the doorstep at the same time—we have to be Mr Jones: Again, just talking for our sector, we have Y e cient in the way in which we approach them. seen it as an opportunity, especially some of the work that the South Wales Police have been doing, Q854 Alun Michael: Does that mean that some for example, they have developed what is known as activities, some commercial activities in particular, an advance appointment scheme. So if you are a that eYciency requires a relationship with the student who chooses to undertake the BA in police employers at a national UK level rather than a more studies at Glamorgan whilst you are studying you national and regional level? can become a special constable at weekends, and you Ms Creed: That again would come back to the can serve as a special constable in your holidays. And there is one student from Wiltshire who is sector. So, for example, I previously worked for the attending Glamorgan on the same course and Financial Services Sector, and obviously Wiltshire Constabulary have taken him on to their organisations that are global or pan-UK, like Lloyds advanced appointment scheme to run parallel to TSB, for example, there would have needed to have show the diVerence that is being made. been a relationship through the pool there; but also working with the area oYces and networks at a country level. Q858 Mark Williams: How common are those partnerships in other Sector Skills areas? Ms Hunter: I think there are some examples but I Q855 Mark Williams: I think we touched on this a think they are few and far between. bit earlier but on what basis would you choose an Mr Woods: For me the evidence that comes out is English further education college to work with over that as we are supposed to be articulating the voice a Welsh one and vice versa—again getting into the of employers, employers are going to go to wherever realms of the government funding system in each there are business driven high level skills on oVer, country? and it is those relationships that we are having to Ms Hunter: The first consideration for most broker. I do not think, as I said in my comments, employers, particularly in our sector, is whether the that necessarily that is seen as an England or Wales V college or the higher education institution can o er issue—they are going to where they see the best value a quality fit for purpose programme, regardless of that is added to their business from the skills being where it is. We have a number of examples in our oVered by that HE institution. The diYculty that we sector of police forces and probation services using have is translating the need from the employer to higher education institutions that are quite some those HE institutions because sometimes the considerable distance from where they are based language and the focus is diVerent. One might because they are the right institution to oVer that characterise it stereotype it as being academic and provision. But for some Sector Skills Councils the one being about vocational. It is about us as Sector employers will have a much greater interest in what Skills Councils trying to broker those partnerships the funding issues are; so for our sector they between the HE institutions and employers to speak traditionally have not been able to access a lot of a common language that they can then deliver public funding for educational and training in something which the employer wants, and that is colleges and HEIs anyway. But for some sectors that part of our work and it is also part of the new remit will be a real issue and it goes back to what we were of the Commission for Employment and Skills— saying previously about the infrastructure they will be looking at the relationship in higher investment and the funding regimes. education to businesses. Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 35
8 July 2008 Mr Alan Woods, Mr Richard Jones, Ms Sue Hunter and Ms Michelle Creed
Q859 Mark Williams: Do you detect a change in that good and bad in the context of Wales, I think attitude in those higher education institutions? that is diYcult to do. We, for example, within the Obviously you have pointed to the success stories, justice sector that we have good relationships; there but more generally. are other colleagues, obviously with things like Mr Woods: I think there is a greater recognition that veterinary science that say there is not a good universities to some extent or higher education relationship because that oVer is not just there. institutions are going to have to go back somewhat to their roots in providing business added value Q863 Mr David Jones: Can we look at it more qualifications, and if the attainment that we wish globally rather than in respect of your sector? For which is articulated through REACH about world example, you have mentioned veterinary science and class skills then that is the only way in which that is would have thought that tuition fees would be some going to happen, and to have it divorced from the sort of disincentive to students who wish to study reality of business productivity and performance I veterinary sciences having to come from Wales; is think is a false one. that what you are finding? Ms Hunter: I think there is some evidence of that but Q860 Mark Williams: The frustration is where we there is another issue in that the colleges and the have—your words “divergent funding” issues. universities will not put on a programme that they Mr Woods: I think that does not help when cannot guarantee a break-even number of students. businesses are trying to understand the diVerence So if your pool of students is quite limited and out of between a Welsh Baccalaureate and an English that pool of students only one or two want to do a diploma, even for the same subject where they then particular programme it is not worth the university start at diVerent times; or that there is Train to Gain actually oVering that programme. funding which is available in England but not Y available in Wales. Those things are di cult for us Q864 Mr David Jones: To pause briefly there, that to articulate. could actually impact upon students from England in that particular case, who would also be unable to Q861 Mark Williams: On a personal level, going access that particular training course? back to those individual companies specifically on Ms Hunter: Yes, it depends on the particular the border, it must be immensely frustrating. programme and the university and what the Ms Hunter: It is immensely frustrating and I suppose catchment area is and whether they can actually get Y the bottom line for business, if there were two the su cient number of individuals on to the equally competitive oVers either side of the border in programme—whether it is at a college or a terms of what is being oVered, and the quality and university. content is right, then my guess is that the business would opt for whichever one was the most cost Q865 Mr David Jones: How would you say that V e ective at that point. So there will be an imbalance. cross-border access to specialist training could be improved? Is it just down to finance or are there Q862 Mr David Jones: Mr Woods, you will be glad other factors? to hear that we are going on to specialist training Ms Hunter: I think the Sector Skills Councils have a now! You mentioned briefly that, for example, there role to play in this in identifying and working with, are no higher education institutions in Wales as most of us do, with the higher education delivering higher education institutions in Wales institutions and defining for them what learning is delivering veterinary science courses, and required in which areas of the country because some presumably that is only one example. Are learners needs will be much more localised than others, from Wales who want to attend specialist training particularly for some of the other Sector Skills Councils. So I think we have a role to play in courses usually able to access them? If not, what sort identifying and brokering the development of of factors are an impediment to them obtaining programmes. such access? Mr Woods: From the evidence that has been supplied to the Committee there are issues where Q866 Mr David Jones: Can you give some examples they have access to training; there are good examples of the way in which you are actually fulfilling that as well as the example which you quoted from role? Lantra, saying that there is no provision. There is the Mr Woods: Colleagues from Asset Skills have evidence from colleagues which talks about the identified that there are needs, for example, in airbus project, which is with the Manufacturing surveying and planning and they are addressing that Sector Skills Sector. I think what again is happening by working with the Royal Institution of Chartered is that because we are based upon a sectoral basis Surveyors for accredited courses in surveying and employers are looking for relationships with planning at the University of Glamorgan. So there providers of learning that can deliver their needs, are, I think, examples within the documents that the and you can pick out examples where it is working Committee has received, which are again trying to well and you can pick out examples where it is articulate the employers’ needs. Where they identify working less well, and that is evidenced throughout that there is a skills gap, which we will have the report. To try and say that on a global basis is published in our Sector Skills Agreements, it is then Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
Ev 36 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
8 July 2008 Mr Alan Woods, Mr Richard Jones, Ms Sue Hunter and Ms Michelle Creed us trying to work with the providers of learning to community learning and development, work-based actually oVer those courses where there are gaps, learning, within that FE system used to be joined by which then means that there is a progression from statutory instrument for both England and Wales, somebody taking that learning into the world of and were both the same sets of qualifications and the work. same sets of underpinning standards. In 2005 the Equipping our Teachers for the Future agenda moved the England position to a new level and Q867 Mr David Jones: But is there necessarily a gap England pursued the development of their own because the course is available but it just happens to standards and their own qualifications, driven by the be on the other side of the border. To what extent needs that were highlighted within the Ofsted can you assist learners in accessing training on the Reports and the FE system. We have as a result of other side of the border? It is all very well to create a those changes within England, because obviously new course within Wales but what if the student is in education and skills is a devolved matter, we have North Wales and wants to access the course in been working with Wales, working with the support England? of the Assembly Government to review the Ms Creed: We have a policy lobby voice as well as a standards for teachers in Wales, and we have voice that faces the supply side, so where these issues submitted recommendations to the Assembly on surface and where the employers say that this is what the new teacher qualification framework for becoming an issue for them, and obviously that Wales should be. There are some diVerences between becomes an employer issue as opposed to an the standards and qualifications that employers have individual learner issue perhaps, we are able to said they would like to see because of the diVerent capture that and feed that back in to the policy agenda between 14 to 19, for example; and obviously consultation processes that we go through. Just to Wales is a bilingual country and has complexities give you a specific example of where an SSC has there in terms of bilingual learning delivery. Where overcome that issue, if I can refer you to the Skills the issues require further support at the moment, Set’s submission, Skills Set are the Sector Skills obviously we are working with the HR managers’ Council for the creative media industries and they network through Fforwm and the principles specifically stated, if I can quote: “We have noted network through Fforwm to help them look at the instances where specialist training was not available implications of cross-boarder labour market through the FE and HE sector in Wales or indeed its mobility. We do not perceive there to be barriers for neighbouring English regions. For example, a new individuals moving across the system but we do in entrance programme for the post-production the short term perceive a need to support employers’ industries that we successfully ran in Wales called understanding what of the new England First Post was delivered in Wales by the qualifications they can accept and what the collaboration of a Welsh Company, Barcud implications are for students that are trained in Derwen, and a London based training facilitator, Wales in terms of moving into the England system. Soho Editors, the collaboration provided an It may well be as a result of the diVerences that have opportunity to develop the capacity for specialist emerged between England and Wales that there are post-production training in Wales.” That is an some additional induction requirements that are example there where Skills Set has actively helped required into devolved education systems in both develop the capacity of the system in Wales to be countries, but I would say that that is in hand. able to provide that specialist training.
Q870 Mark Williams: What is the timetable for this? Q868 Mr David Jones: Given your remit though I You have discussions but when do you expect some guess that you would tend not to intervene until it action from the Assembly Government? was becoming a problem that looked as if it was Ms Creed: The Assembly have already the new going to impact upon employers; is that right? professional standards for teachers and trainers in Ms Creed: We are set up to be employer-led Wales and the qualifications framework businesses. recommendations is currently with them for review and we expect a response shortly. Q869 Mark Williams: To Lifelong Learning, you have expressed concern about the increasing Q871 Mark Williams: How big an issue was that? divergence of the qualification requirement for You said not a huge number of individuals, but how further education teachers in Wales and England, I big an issue has this been in terms of cross-border think following the new regulation that came into movement of teachers to date? eVect last year. What is the nature of the problem Ms Creed: Because of the regulated nature of teacher and how big a problem is it? qualifications, where the immediate impact has been Ms Creed: Thank you for the opportunity. We are felt has been within, for example, the University of still at very early stages with this agenda because, Newport, who previously had a franchise for teacher obviously as you have identified, it only came into training provision that stretched across England and play in September 2007. In essence what has Wales because obviously they were working on the happened is the training of teachers for the post basis of the same standards. As a result of the compulsory system, so further education, regulatory changes Newport has relinquished Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
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8 July 2008 Mr Alan Woods, Mr Richard Jones, Ms Sue Hunter and Ms Michelle Creed elements of its franchise in England and is body that I was associated years ago, which is now concentrating on the bulk of its provision, which called NIACE Dysgu Cymru, a body that usually in always has been in Wales. So that is an immediate days gone by 10 years ago would have been the impact. Obviously there have been some tensions in public forum where learners, employers, trade this transition. As a result of this the role that LL unions, local authorities all came together to discuss UK has played is that we have established a four and help to develop policy. nations strategic summit where we bring the senior Ms Creed: An important part of Lifelong Learning civil servants from departments for education and UK’s governance structure in Wales is our Wales skills together, to look at what the implications are Country Panel. Our Wales Country Panel draws for learning delivery, and I would say that in terms representation from the employers within our of standards for teachers the UK has never had a footprint, so each of our further education, higher UK-wide approach before. But we have now education work-based learning, libraries, archives brokered agreement across the four governments and information services and community learning and we were in Belfast last week actually and development, which would include, for commencing a project that is going to look at the example, community development, youth work, standards for teacher training across the whole of community-based adult learning, on that Country the UK for the first time, bring it together as a set of Panel the director for NIACE Dysgu Cymru is a national occupational standards for learning member, as is John Graystone, who is the Chief delivery and in due course that overarching set of Executive of Fforwm, as is the Higher Education national occupational standards will inform the Wales Committee, as is the Wales TUC, so on and needs of the four governments, which in an evolving so forth, through the well-established names and sense will make understanding of the similarities and organisations in the Lifelong Learning sector. We diVerences between the qualifications easier for meet with that Panel three times a year and we— employers and learners to understand. Q874 Chairman: Could you stop a moment? I did Q872 Mark Williams: Not least because Sir Adrian not make myself clear. Is that an introspective body Webb has talked about the need to have ongoing or does it actually take account of what is happening vocational professional development, which across the UK and globally as well? obviously is going to lend itself very much to what Ms Creed: Yes, we do. Certainly as a body we are the you said. This is not written in a tablet of stone now, sum of our component parts, so NIACE would still is it, it is going to be reviewed in the future as well. have its UK links; it would also have its forums Ms Creed: Within England the commitment to about which you are talking where its networks can continuing professional development and a licence come together and oVer input on a policy matter, for to practise for teachers in the FE system has been example. And what we have a function of doing as established as part of the equipping our teachers for well as directly accessing our employers and as well the future agenda. Decisions on licence to practice as looking to developments in Europe we are able to and commitment to CPD have not yet been taken in draw on the combined intellectual capital that those Wales, and it is certainly something that employers key organisations and groups bring together. So it is in the sector are firmly behind, and it is something quite a complicated network but we are pulling that we have covered in our sector skills agreement together the component parts of the sector. process; so we are on the case. Q875 Chairman: I think there ought to be more Q873 Chairman: I was intrigued and interested in public knowledge of what you are doing. that particular example. Important as it is it is a very Mr Woods: Can I just comment upon that question highly localised part of the whole debate. It occurs that you asked my colleague Michelle? The Alliance to me that there are very fundamental questions that of Sector Skills Councils also has a role in that you have raised today about funding, about process of working across the 25 sectors to enable qualifications and about policy, and I was interested that debate. Although we are employer led with the to hear that this four nation approach is being employers’ voice as the one that we are hearing in developed in relation to further education teachers. terms of trying to understand what employers want Where is the actual public debate in terms of through the various skills systems throughout the Lifelong Learning, in terms of your work, in terms United Kingdom, that debate is managed across of skills taking place now? There are quite serious those 25 Sector Skills Councils. The challenge, of developments in terms of funding obligations and course, as you say, is then to bring that out into the policy occurring in Wales and in England, but you wider arena as an independent voice and I think that are talking about senior civil servants. Is there a is something that the Alliance of Sector Skills body in Wales that actually now raises the question Councils will be looking to do. how do we come together and discuss these changes? Chairman: Thank you very much all of you for your Is there a sense of introspection or are you actually very challenging evidence this morning; it has been suVering in silence, or are you actually looking extremely helpful to us in our inquiry on cross- outwards and asking the question? For example, the border issues. Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
Ev 38 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
Witness: Professor Ian Diamond, Chief Executive, Economic and Social Research Council and Chair of RCUK Executive Group, gave evidence.
Q876 Chairman: Good morning and welcome to the Q880 Chairman: But how do you account for that Welsh AVairs Committee. For the record, could you stark contrast between Scotland and Wales? Is it introduce yourself, please? purely historical? Professor Diamond: I am Ian Diamond and I am Professor Diamond: I cannot say that it is purely Chief Executive of the Economic and Social historical; I would have to say that there are some Research Council. bigger universities in Scotland, in my observation. I would also have to say—and you talk about the Q877 Alun Michael: On a point of order, Mr history—I think going forward there will be some Chairman, I believe it is correct to say that Professor very good news stories. For example, my own Diamond is also Chair of the Research Council UK Council has partnered with the Welsh Assembly as distinct from an organisation called ECUK that Government, with WORD and with HEFCW on a appears in our papers. I make this point in pursuit number of initiatives just recently and there have of the banishment of acronyms and initials from the been some significant successes. For example, if I work of this Committee, despite the alphabet that we may, the recent centres of excellence in public health have had to be provided with an explanation of in research, which were competitive right across the V this particular session. UK, Cardi was highly successful in gaining one of Professor Diamond: I am also Chair of the Executive those, and that was a competition through the UK Group of Research Councils UK, which is all Clinical Research Collaboration. In addition my Research Councils working together. own Council joined with HEFCW has just funded the Welsh Institution of Social and Economic Research, and that is joint between CardiV and Q878 Chairman: You are aware that this inquiry Swansea. These are significant pieces of funding focuses very sharply on higher education and higher which have not yet started but which are for the next education research and in earlier evidence it has been three to four to five years, and I personally believe identified that there is quite a serious funding gap or will see a start to raise that funding profile. a lower proportion of research funding coming into the higher education sector in Wales. How do you explain that? Q881 Chairman: You give individual examples, Professor Diamond: There is variability between the almost piecemeal examples, pragmatic examples in a seven Research Councils, I have to say that. Put very sense of collaboration. Are there other remedies simply, all Research Council funding is allocated on more root and branch, more radical? For example, the basis of excellence, which is allocated on the back in the early 1990s, 15 years ago now, Sir John basis of a peer review process, which is accepted by Meurig Thomas had this major role in the all higher education institutions across the UK; we University of Wales where he was basically are UK bodies and simply have open competition to proposing one university, one Research University. which all the Welsh institutions, as well institutions Would we need to go back to that model or are there throughout the UK, can bid. other models that need to be looked at? Professor Diamond: I think it is very disciplinary Q879 Chairman: But by size Wales appears to be based. In my view there has to be a real desire to have underperforming compared with, say, Scotland. Is the very best facilities for the very best scholars to be that purely historical or is it historical plus what able to pursue their research, and I believe perhaps some people would say—and I am not personally—and speaking, I stress, personally— necessarily saying it—a lack of aspiration or a lack there is an enormous need and model for of ambition? collaboration across institutions so that the very best Professor Diamond: I cannot speak for aspirations researchers do not need to have the very best or ambition; I am very conscious that the Welsh equipment, for example, in their own institution, but institutions are often contacting my Council to ask they can work together across institutions to for advice on funding, so my own personal establish that. That does not say that you need one observation is that there is evidence of aspiration. I research institution; it does say that you need would have to say that competitively the Welsh collaboration and partnership, which goes across institutions have in the past not been doing as well institutions, and may indeed cross institutions as those in some other parts of the UK. There are outside of Wales into the rest of the United exceptions and I have to say it is really diYcult to use Kingdom, or indeed internationally so that the very the word “institution” because if you take, for best scholars feel that they can pursue their research example, an institution like Bangor, in my own in entirely the best way within Wales. Council, which as a whole has a relatively low percentage of funding, there are within Bangor real Q882 Mark Williams: That last answer is very much pockets of international excellence, particularly in borne out with the partnerships being built between psychology and linguistics, which mean that we have Aberystwyth University and Bangor, of course. You jointly with the Welsh Assembly recently funded a mention your pockets of excellence and of course in major centre on bilingualism there. So I think it is the Ceredigion constituency is of course the former very diYcult to say institutions because within IGER, and pioneering work being undertaken there. institutions in Wales, which may not as an In the various debates that have been pursued over institution gain great funding, there are absolutely the past two or three years of the funding of the then pockets of supreme international excellence. IGER an alternative model was suggested whereby Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
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8 July 2008 Professor Ian Diamond at least part of the funding for an institution like that reviews and take the decisions and so for the would be by a formula which would give a set credibility of the process these have to be the proportion to Wales rather than the existing bidding absolutely best scholars; they tend to be the process. I emphasise from my constituency that the absolutely best scholars who give of their time, and pursuit of excellence has always been there but there in order to be able to appoint them people have to has been that perception that the Chairman alluded apply, so I think it is very important that we do get to, that the research base within Wales has failed that stream. somewhat short of other countries in the United Kingdom. What are your thoughts on a formula Q884 Mark Williams: Is there a bit of reluctance based system to govern these matters in Wales? from people from Welsh institutions to apply? Professor Diamond: My personal view is that one Professor Diamond: I would have to say that there needs to have aspirations to be able to compete at the has been a reluctance of people from a number of very best and that formula based funding may not, institutions across the UK, and I have found it a very if you like, really raise that aspiration because it important part of my role over the last four to five enables one to think that the money is there. Having years to encourage people to apply, and I have said that, I think one needs a very clear strategy observed that when I have encouraged people to about how you not only raise aspirations but raise, apply we have started to see a much greater flow in, if you like, the game in applications to ensure that and yet it is something that we must continue to do. you are competing at the very highest level. I cannot Because it is something that takes a considerable speak in depth to IGER but I could see why one amount of time to do properly and there has to be might want to invest funds over a period of time to support from within the institution so that people ensure that the best facilities and best scholars were are not pulled too thin. In addition this is something there so that one had success in funding. So it does which is, I believe, a contribution not only to the seem to me that it is an area that is important for community of scholars as a whole to help make the research over the next few years; it is not an area decision but one’s institution gets a lot from it as which is going to be, in my view, slowing down its well, because if you are sitting on the board which is research needs. Indeed, it is also an area in which making the decisions about funding you learn pretty Wales as a nation would benefit from the knowledge quickly about the very best ways of writing a transfer which comes from research in an institution proposal and of getting funding. You are thus able like that. to transfer that back and to mentor junior scholars. So I think it is something that is really important, Q883 Mark Williams: Do you think there is a case that we really work hard to make sure that the best for how you achieve this, but including the number colleagues are applying and then the Research of Welsh based representatives on the Research Councils will be able to appoint them to the boards. Councils’ governing bodies to make the case for Wales in organisations like yourself? Q885 Mr David Jones: Professor Diamond, to what Professor Diamond: I think that is a very good extent are Welsh universities participating in the question. I think it is important to recognise the broader innovation and knowledge transfer distinction between Research Councils’ governing initiatives in the Research Councils, such as the one bodies, which is a relatively small group of people that it is conducting in collaboration with the and the funding boards because if you were to look Technology Strategy Board? at my own council since the late Haydn Ellis stepped Professor Diamond: The Technology Strategy Board down from our council we have not had a I think is a wholly good innovation and we as representative from Wales, although we always are Research Councils meet very regularly with Iain concerned to have representatives from the diVerent Gray, the Chief Executive of the Technology devolved countries of the United Kingdom and I can Strategy Board and with his colleagues to ensure assure you that at the moment Professor JeVery and that we are working with them. They are taking a Professor Alexander, who are Scottish very broad view of the economy, which I think is representatives, take every opportunity to take a wholly good and that will have very good devolved view and to make sure that we do so on opportunities for Wales. They are in the early council. At the same time my own council, which has phases, let us be frank, of the work that they are no representatives currently on council has a higher doing and I am very clear in my mind that there is than you might expect number of representatives on a lot of interest from the Welsh institutions that are the four funding boards. We always look at that taking part in knowledge transfer partnerships and position. So I think it is something that we are some of the other major initiatives that they will concerned about and would want to ensure that we take. I think it is too early as yet to judge on the are always clear that we must take into account the success because this is an organisation that in its devolved angle on any decision on council and we current incarnation has only been going for a always look at the distribution of colleagues on the relatively small amount of time. What I can tell you, actual funding board. Having said that, there is a Mr Jones, that the engagement is there and that my two-way street and one of the things I always say to view is that the Welsh institutions are very keen to colleagues in universities, not only in Wales, is that engage. I would also have to say that my observation you must encourage your very best people to put is that a number of the Welsh institutions have really their names forward for those funding boards. These taken the whole knowledge transfer agenda very, are the people who take into account the peer very seriously and are doing so throughout the Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
Ev 40 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
8 July 2008 Professor Ian Diamond institution because I think it is important that partnership between CardiV and Bristol, really leadership is given from the highest level that this is taking the opportunities to use the skills in social a very good thing for academics to spend their medicine in Bristol, the skills in epidemiology and time on. clinical trials in CardiV and bringing them together with Welsh data in particular, which I think has a real potential over the next few years to have impact Q886 Mr David Jones: Is there any concern, on the health of the population of Wales. I might perhaps, that the Technology Strategy Board may also say that that is also part of a network of centres be driven by policy formulated in London? of health which includes the northeast, Northern Professor Diamond: That is not clear to me. My observation—I stress my personal observation—is Ireland and there is one on physical activity in that the Technology Strategy Board is doing Cambridge and one on smoking in Nottingham, everything it can to engage with industry and with which will also be linking together and then working policy makers throughout the UK and to engage to impact for example on the health of people of V Wales. There is a lot of engagement of Welsh right across the di erent sectors of the economy, and 6 that I think is a wholly good thing. I would stress researchers with the electronic health initiative of Y that these are early days and we need to continue to the O ce for the Strategic Co-ordination of Health monitor and to encourage. Research at the moment, which is UK-wide and colleagues working across those boundaries absolutely freely and openly. Another example is the Q887 Alun Michael: Could we look at the rural economy and land use programme, which I proportion of the Research Councils UK’s funding believe has been a real example of multidisciplinary for their own research institutes that is allocated to activity, where there were social scientists working research establishments in Wales? I think we are with biologists, and environmental scientists and a talking about the fields of biotechnology, medical number of those projects involved colleagues in research and natural environment. What proportion Wales and in England, and really therefore getting actually goes to Wales? the benefits of that collaboration. I think one of the Professor Diamond: I do not have that number right things we have to work on in the future, if I may say in front of me. I would be happy to provide that 5 so, is ensuring that there are also no barriers to subsequently ; it would be very easy to do that. participation between Welsh scholars and those in Currently there are institutes within Wales from other countries,—my own council now has a each of those organisations but I would have to say number of bilateral agreements with Research also very clearly that all the institutes of those Councils around the world—so that we make it as councils, wherever they are situated, have a UK easy for a colleague in CardiV, Swansea, brief, so that the laboratory for molecular biology, Aberystwyth or Bangor, to name but four, to work for example, situated in Cambridge would have a brief to be a UK body, and I know would look right with a colleague in Mannheim, as it is to work with across into Wales as well. I do not think personally a colleague in another Welsh institution or indeed in in the main that there would be an immense point Bristol or Oxford or another English institution. about where the institutes historically have been situated. Having said that, the British Geological Q889 Alun Michael: I think what you have said is Survey does actually provide a Welsh service in the very welcome and outward looking. It is perhaps way that it is working on the geology of Wales, and worth suggesting that there is a need for a better I think that that is important. I think the key thing profile of that wide cooperation. We tend very is that we ensure that there is the right degree of largely to be focused purely on things that are engagement with the Welsh authorities to ensure that the really important results that are coming out English or Welsh rather than on the benefits of— are being driven into policy and opportunities Professor Diamond: I could not agree more. The within Wales. whole higher education story and indeed the whole benefits, both on the economic development and quality of life of the people of this country—and Q888 Alun Michael: We are not seeking to be indeed beyond this country—is a very good one that defensive or parochial about this, but to understand we have been rather secretive in telling, and I think how the system works so that additional we have started to improve on that, and I think information would be helpful. Part of the Research CardiV, for one, is a place that has become much Council support for research includes the provision better in its outlook focus. But I do believe that there of facilities that are available to researchers UK- is a real need to celebrate and explain some of the wide and you have just referred to a good example benefits that have happened and to use that as a way of that. Can you provide some examples of projects to generate and to encourage the next generation. which have involved collaboration between researchers in Wales and England which have been of particular significance? Q890 Alun Michael: Taking that point, obviously Professor Diamond: The one which I really hope has the starting point for research is the questions that a huge impact—I have referred recently to the need to be asked. centres for public excellence in health and that is a 6 Note by witness: of the OYce for the Strategic Co- 5 Ev 178–179 ordination of Health Research. Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 41
8 July 2008 Professor Ian Diamond
Professor Diamond: Too right. constituent parts are represented. So I do feel that there is a very good story to tell. I am not saying that Q891 Alun Michael: How do you integrate UK we should be complacent—please do not think that research questions or questions that are coming out I am—and I think it is terribly important that (a) we of the research community or from public bodies at continue to be reminded of the need to consider all a UK level with the research and policy priorities of these angles; and (b) that we work together with devolved administrations? Wales and Welsh institutions to raise the game Professor Diamond: I think in a number of areas. thereon. But I do think that there is a considerable The way that this has happened is by the devolved amount of good work going on. administrations being part of the overall base of any conversation that goes forward with regard to Q893 Mark Williams: Turning to postgraduate directed research. Here may I take a second to say training, how eVective do you feel that the UK-wide that there are two ways that we fund research? One coordination of the provision for postgraduate is in what we call response mode research, where we qualifications is in particular with regard to the in the research councils sit and wait for the great needs of the public sector—and I am thinking in ideas to come from the scientists in any area that terms of things like education and clinical they wish in any field that they wish. The second area psychology? Is there a mismatch between what has is directed research, where we take a view on where been provided, what has been funded and the needs there is likely to be a gap or a need and we may do so with partners, for example WORD or the Welsh of the public sector more generally? Assembly Government, or HEFCW and those kinds Professor Diamond: It is a very good question. I of bodies are represented on all of the committees think one needs to be able to decide exactly what it which are UK wide. I, for example, chair the is you are trying to generate research for in the next Electronic Health Records Board for the OYce of generation. If we take one of the examples you have Strategic Coordination of Health Research and just raised, which is education, bringing on the next Professor Ronan Lyons from Swansea sits on that, generation of educational researchers is an as does Professor John Williams, and so there is the extremely urgent agenda because academics in opportunity to get the Welsh angle built into that. It institutions across the UK in education are, as a is through that and through those kinds of group, aging somewhat more rapidly than almost partnerships that we are able to identify areas which any other subject. Therefore, to bring on that next are important and where there may be some—to use generation there are a number of challenges that we your word, Dr Francis—pragmatic but at the same have to undertake. Firstly, many of those people time strategic, need to take work forward. So that, who will come to do research in our education for example, with the Welsh Assembly Government institutions to be researchers will do this as a second where there was a feel of a need to look at the career, having firstly, for example, taught in a economic impact of higher education institutions on school. We need to make it easy for them to transfer a particular area then the Welsh Assembly from one career into another and to become very Government, together with the ESRC, together with good researchers in so doing, and my own council is the Scottish Government were able to put together a working to ensure that. But also much of the great piece of research which will be reported either later educational research comes from people who are not this year or the beginning of next year, which looks formally trained as educationalists. So that, for at that and which is able to take a comparative example—and you have given the example of perspective between Scotland and Wales. clinical psychology—educational psychology is often trained psychologists who become researchers Q892 Alun Michael: I suppose the reason for some in educational psychology or similarly for sociology of these questions is the media-driven questioning or indeed economics. So that we need to ensure that about whether there is a fair share to Wales and a we are bringing on new generations of psychologists, concern I suppose that would arise from the fact that economists and socialists whose interest is to the Research Councils have a relationship to undertake their research in education. These are real government ministers and that others might be left challenges that we are facing and addressing at the out. Would I be right in saying that your view is that moment. I am not saying that in the area of that is not what is happening and that there is a education—and a similar area is management—that much more integrated situation as far as the work of we are there yet, but certainly within the Economic the Research Councils are concerned that perhaps a and Social Research Council there are critical areas superficial glance might suggest? on which the Training and Development Board is Professor Diamond: I think that would be a fair working and which we have as a priority for the next point. My own council has a concordat with the few years. Welsh Assembly Government which is not just a friendly meeting; it is something that goes on throughout the year at oYcer level. We have a Q894 Mark Williams: How explicit can you be in serious meeting once a year to review progress and your directions? You mentioned in terms of to set strategy for the next year. Other councils have directing what you see in the previous answer in memoranda of understanding and regular meetings. terms of the specific area of research, so how And on many of the strategic decision-making proactive can you be in directing the shortfalls in bodies the Welsh Assembly Government or its particular area of postgraduate qualifications? Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
Ev 42 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
8 July 2008 Professor Ian Diamond
Professor Diamond: It is absolutely critical that we identify all the skills you really need. And one of the do that. If I might just speak to my own council, but things that is coming across, for example, is the need this is indicative of others, and the Engineering and for teamwork skills, and I think in the future we will Physical Sciences Research Council I can give an be working on our postgraduate training guidelines example of as well. First we look at the demography; to build in more employer needs into the transferable annually the Research Councils as a whole provide skills that people get as well as their research skills. a report to the Research Base Funders Forum on the health of the research base which looks at the demography of the academic base in the UK by Q896 Mark Williams: Are those relationships discipline and also sub-disciplines. So that for formalised through a formal relationship with the example while it may look like research in biology is Sector Skills Councils or are they still pretty ad hoc? in a healthy state we are short of people who work on Professor Diamond: I would have to say that I think whole animal physiology, particularly with regard to they are still pretty ad hoc with the Sector Skills big animals, which has huge impacts, for example, in Councils, although the research careers and a rural area with dairy farming, and enabling diversity groups within the Research Councils UK therefore that we generate a new base there is certainly works across those bases. We have formal important. But it is not just demography. For meetings with some of the major employers, but I example, there has been a decline in quantitative think it would be fair to say that much of what goes skills and so we are very keen to raise the capacity for on is rather ad hoc. quantitative social science and one of the reasons that HEFCW and the ESRC has funded the Welsh Q897 Alun Michael: Turning to science policy, the Institute for Social and Economic Research has been Welsh Assembly Government has published a to have a real initiative to raise capacity in science policy under the heading of A Science Policy quantitative skills in the social sciences in Wales. So for Wales. What do you think of this? we are very cognisant that we have a dual role in Professor Diamond: I thought it was interesting. I research training and that is firstly to provide an thought it raised aspirations and raised some points overall base in the research students; but secondly to which I would hope to see now moving forward into be very clear on areas which need special attention— an agenda for action. either areas which are going to be new in the future, areas where there are demographic declines in the academic base which we wish to address, or areas Q898 Alun Michael: As far as the Research Councils which for some other reason have dropped oV, and are concerned, are you able to take account of for those we allocate specific funding to do that. diVerent priorities such as the ones articulated in Could I also just say that we are also very clear in our that policy document when considering research mind that we need to engage better with policy bids from Welsh Higher Education Institutions? makers at the beginning of the academic career and Professor Diamond: I think what we are able to say that is why we have had student-ships funded jointly very clearly is that we encourage excellence, so I do with the Welsh Assembly Government, where not think anyone would want to say that it is a people are jointly supervised in an academic priority there so therefore it is not subject to the institution and by a civil servant with research same standards of excellence as if it were not a expertise, and that gets people who are able priority. Having said that, we are very keen to work therefore to do research and to know how to apply with the devolved admissions more broadly and in that into policy; and we are also within my own this case in particular, the Welsh to say, “These are council introducing a scheme which enables research the key areas you have identified as areas you wish students to spend time on an internship in to take forward, areas that you see Wales focusing government, and that is also true of other councils, on, areas that you see as important, now what can for example the Natural Environment Research we all do to work together to ensure that the capacity Council. is there, to ensure that the opportunities exist and to ensure that the applications that are coming in have the best opportunity of being of the excellence that Q895 Mark Williams: What about early engagement is required?” with employers as well in terms of the overall career development of researchers? How engaged are employers in this process? Q899 Alun Michael: So if I understand you correctly Professor Diamond: I think that is something that you are suggesting that where there are the again diVerent councils have worked in diVerent aspirations that you refer to in this document they ways. So the Engineering and Physical Sciences would stimulate a discussion amongst the scientific Research Council has a huge engagement with and research community about ways of pursuing employers where people are often jointly supervised them rather than being a straight line response? in major industry and in the university. I think it is Professor Diamond: Yes. You could not say, “We something that we really have to work through in the have an aspiration here, therefore we will put the future and that is why we have been investing in money in,” but the question is how do we, for transferable skills within all the councils and example, link those aspirations to focus in a engaging with the major employers, so that we particular area with the funding base? Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
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8 July 2008 Professor Ian Diamond
Q900 Alun Michael: So part of the question might Professor Diamond: I could not speak to the need for be, “How serious are you in those aspirations?” a Science Minister. Having said that, I think that Professor Diamond: Yes. there is a real benefit for serious conversations between the Research Councils’ and the Welsh Assembly Government—and that is precisely what Q901 Alun Michael: On that point I wonder if you we have with the Chief Social Researcher from my would comment on the papers that we have had own council—about the critical issues for Wales. submitted to us by Sir John Cadogan, who I believe You mentioned Julian Tudor Hart, who is still, even was Director General of the Research Councils UK, at the age he is now, providing advice to some of the who has been— ways in which we are taking forward the electronic Professor Diamond: Sir John was in the 1990s. patient records agenda, which although it is a UK agenda Wales is leading much of the rest of the UK on, and on which I think there are real benefits for Q902 Alun Michael: Some time ago, yes; but he has the UK to have. I am absolutely clear in my mind made comments that have been quite scathing about that we need to have the kinds of strategic the rejection by the Welsh Assembly Government of discussions that you are talking about and we need the suggestion that there should be a Chief Scientific to make sure that they are integrated into policy Adviser to the Assembly. Would not that sort of post within the Welsh Assembly Government. be necessary to enable the Assembly to engage in the sort of wider dialogue that you have just referred to Q904 Chairman: The reason we have this inquiry is as being the sensible follow-on from a policy because this matter has not devolved and what we statement? are trying to address is this need for a synergy Professor Diamond: I take a very strong—I stress— between a Welsh Assembly Government which is personal view that there is a great advantage to there not responsible for research, which has aspirations being a Chief Scientific Adviser. I think Scotland has in the science arena, and the non-devolving areas of shown that. There is a Chief Social Researcher in research such as yourselves. Wales and I think she is excellent, and I think she Professor Diamond: The real commitment that I also provides an excellent link between the policy have given you—and I hope I have given you some imperatives in social research in Wales and the examples of the way that has happened over the last Research Councils and we have very, very good two to three years—is that the kind of discussions relationships and extremely good links with her. that are needed we are willing to have and indeed are having and there are a number of opportunities that have come up as a result of those strategic decisions, Q903 Chairman: Could I end with the question either with the government or with HEFCW or with which was triggered by Alun Michael’s questions, WORD, which have enabled there to be strategic but also in your diVerentiation between a response investments in Wales in areas which are important to mode and a directive mode? This idea that Research Wales, and we need to make sure that there are no Councils could be more interventionalist in creating barriers to those happening in the future. That is greater collaboration, it occurred to me that in Mr why in answer to one of the earlier questions I said Michael’s own constituency perhaps one of the great that I would expect the proportions to go up because research institutions of the 20th century, the we have made some significant investments in recent Pneumoconiosis Research Unit funded by the months that the funding has not really started to Medical Research Council at Llandough Hospital flow in yet. was a case in point where you had people like Professor Archie Cochrane pioneering epidemiology and Julian Tudor Hart pioneering Q905 Chairman: I began this session by asking a community medicine, Dr Vernon Timbrell question about posing the question of the diVerence pioneering dust diseases. That unit there was a world between Scotland and Wales. Could I request that centre for 20 years but a wrong decision was taken you provide a memorandum which gives us a route in the 1950s not to integrate it into higher education map or an explanation of the qualitative diVerence and to collaborate more fully with the university. It between the way in which Scotland responds to you came into being by accident with a Health Minister, and Wales responds to you? How does actually the Aneurin Bevan, a very proactive union, the Miners Scottish Executive and the HEFCW equivalent in Union, and a desire to do something about a very Scotland relate to you and its respective bodies; and serious problem in pneumoconiosis. Could we not how do the Welsh bodies relate? Is there a see a situation where a real science policy of the significance diVerence? Welsh Assembly Government could be real if you Professor Diamond: You have asked for a actually had a much closer and interventionist subsequent memorandum and I will give you that.7 collaboration between the Research Councils and Had you asked me just to respond I would have the Welsh Assembly Government, and to have responded that I suspect there is no significant actually, as Sir John Cadogan proposes, a Science diVerence; that there is a real commitment for us to Minister, albeit the First Minister is the Science engage at exactly the same level. I can speak for Minister. We have a Culture Minister but we do not have a Science Minister. 7 Ev 179–180 Processed: 23-12-2008 05:01:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG4
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8 July 2008 Professor Ian Diamond
ESRC, of course, and for ESRC we have very, very Q906 Chairman: It would be helpful if you could good relationships with the Scottish Government; map it out. we have very, very good relationships with the Welsh Professor Diamond: I will map it out and make sure Assembly Government and I would find it very that you have a very clear document on which to diYcult to expect that a very close examination of base your deliberations. our processes would see any great diVerence Chairman: Thank you very much for your evidence whatsoever. this morning and this afternoon. Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [SO] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 45
Tuesday 15 July 2008
Members present
Dr Hywel Francis, in the Chair
Nia GriYth Alun Michael Mrs Siaˆn C. James Mark Pritchard Mr David Jones Hywel Williams Mr Martyn Jones Mark Williams
Witnesses: Bill Rammell MP, Minister of State, Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education, Mr Michael Hipkins, Director, Student Finance Strategy, Mr Ashley Malster, Deputy Head, Economic Impact, Science and Research Group, and Mr Matthew Hamnett, Deputy Director, Adult Skills Directorate, Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills, gave evidence.
Q907 Chairman: Good morning and welcome to the that we are not running major national advertising Welsh AVairs Committee. Minister, for the record campaigns at the same time, and that we manage any could you introduce yourself and your colleagues. cross-border issues. I certainly at the moment and on Bill Rammell: Bill Rammell, Minister of State for a needs-must basis meet with my Welsh counterpart. Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education; Perhaps as a result of this inquiry I am minded to say Ashley Malster, who is the Deputy Head, Economic that we probably need to up that and maybe meet Impact, Science and Research Group within the formally two times a year. Department, Mike Hipkins, who is the Director, Student Finance Strategy, and Matt Hamnett who is Q909 Chairman: Is that understanding there the Deputy Director, Adult Skills Directorate. amongst your senior and not so senior oYcials? You would be aware that the Secretary of State for Q908 Chairman: As you know, this is an inquiry on Wales, the Wales OYce itself runs seminars, cross-border issues, and one of the challenging or briefings and awareness-raising about the nature of intriguing issues facing us is the role of your own democratic devolution? Are you confident and Department. Could you explain to us whether there comfortable that that is actually happening and your is a strict separation, demarcation, between the oYcials are signed up to it? higher education responsibilities of your Bill Rammell: I think I am. If I put it like this: I have Department between UK-wide responsibilities and certainly not had representations from the Welsh English-only responsibilities? Is that clearly Assembly Government, either at ministerial level, or understood, and is that understanding there with at oYcial level that there is a gap or an absence of your oYcials? knowledge on the part of oYcials. If I think of key Bill Rammell: I think it is clearly established. It specific announcements that I have been responsible probably helps if I just try and set it out in some for, the perspective and the ownership of the detail. Institutional funding and student finance are devolved administration is actually brought into the devolved. Nevertheless, there is formal liaison system at a very early stage; because we know that between my Department and with the devolved ultimately we cannot get to making announcements administrations. There is a series of quadrilateral if it is a UK-wide issue without that buy-in. meetings between my oYcials and the devolved administrations that takes place three times a year. Q910 Chairman: When the Secretary of State for My Department also coordinates the key Wales was before us I posed to him the question: do performance indicators agreed by each you think that it would be helpful (and it was in the administration in respect of the Student Loans context of health, as it happens) that there should be Company that we jointly own. There are a relatively greater transparency about meetings that are being small number of issues where the UK is still treated, held between the devolved administration ministers in terms of student finance, as one nation in respect and UK ministers, an announcement of what is of the European Court; therefore elements of being discussed and when it is being discussed, that student financing relating to EU students and UK that would be helpful to wider civil society? Would residency are not devolved. All four UK countries you sign up to that? have to agree the same provisions. We lead in trying Bill Rammell: I do not instinctively have a problem to broker agreements when that issue arises. In with it, as long as it does not actually block ad hoc respect of further education, funding comes to liaison where specific issues come up and you further education colleges in Wales through the actually need to engage and have a dialogue within Welsh Assembly Government and through the a relatively short period of time. I have no problem Learning and Skills Council in England. I think both with regularising meetings, where everybody is at oYcial level and at ministerial level there is a good aware that those meetings are taking place. As I say, ongoing dialogue. To take one specific example, in the fact that I was coming before this select terms of communications on student finance which committee forced me to think about the working is critically important, there is regular ongoing arrangements, and I am instinctively committed informal liaison at oYcial level to ensure for example (and I will have to discuss this with Jane Hutt) to the Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
Ev 46 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
15 July 2008 Bill Rammell MP, Mr Michael Hipkins, Mr Ashley Malster and Mr Matthew Hamnett idea that twice a year we get together and have that Bill Rammell: Let me take some specific instances. I kind of formalised dialogue where people are aware have already referred to the quadrilateral meetings that it is taking place. I would not want that to block that take place in respect of student finance. Those out other avenues of communication in between meetings occur three times throughout the year. If those meetings. we look in the research area, the creation of a strategic coordination of a Health Research Committee, which was a recommendation of the Q911 Chairman: One gets the impression, anecdotal Cooksey Review, the Welsh perspective is inputted evidence shows us it appears that the Scottish with regard to that. If we look at the move from the Executive and Scotland seems to be extremely well research assessment exercise to the research organised in its relationships with UK Whitehall excellence framework, the Welsh perspective, the departments. I am not making any observation on devolved administration is part of that process of the situation in Wales by comparison. I am not sure forming the new structure. Indeed, Bangor where this question is going! It is a rhetorical University is part of the pilot study. I think in a question in the sense that we are still at early days in number of ways the Welsh perspective is inputted terms of democratic devolution. One of the into those areas where there is a UK-wide remit. If interesting features is the variation between the four there is a perception that that is not happening countries. Part of the British/Irish Council role of adequately enough then I think that is down to the Secretary of State for Wales now is to achieve dialogue at oYcial level and at ministerial level. That some greater coherence. What would you say about is where I say maybe if we were to meet formally that variation between the countries? twice a year that would help the process. Bill Rammell: As a graduate of CardiV University I would not want to say anything that undermined the impact of Welsh further or higher education. What Q914 Mrs James: Higher Education Wales when I would say seriously and genuinely is that, as the giving their evidence have suggested that your Minister of State, I do not observe a diVerence in Department should work very closely with the scale or quantity of interaction at ministerial level Welsh Assembly Government to explore the comparing Scotland to Wales. Mike, I do not know potential for a joint science investment fund and/or at oYcial level whether it feels diVerent? possibly a strategic science site in Wales. What are Mr Hipkins: At oYcial level it does not feel diVerent your views on this proposal? either. I think we have as good and as close Bill Rammell: Can you outline that again to me. relationships with our colleagues in Wales as we do in Scotland. Q915 Mrs James: Higher Education Wales have suggested that your Department should work much Q912 Chairman: Let me finish with one final specific more closely with the Welsh Assembly Government question. Can you assure us that it is your view, your on establishing a science investment fund (we have oYcial view, that Wales has a fair share of the already touch upon what Bangor is doing etc) and/or resources from your Department for matters that a strategic science site in Wales. Have you any views? are UK-wide? Bill Rammell: I am aware of the science policy for Bill Rammell: Yes, I do believe that to be the case. Wales that has been developed. It appears to me There are a series of mechanisms whereby the there is a lot of synergy between that approach and interests of the devolved administrations are the approach that we are driving. I think we need to factored in at an early stage. Take one example, be clear as well in respect of research funding; there research, and the Research Base Funders’ Forum on has been a concentration of research funding both which both the Welsh Assembly Government and within Wales and within England, and it is driven on HEFCW Wales sit to ensure that that view is put a competitive basis. The applications to the research forward. I am sure when we come on to talk about councils do not take account, and in my view should research, and I have actually seen some of the not take account, of location. There is clearly a evidence that has been before your Committee on debate about the way in which Wales ensures that this issue previously, when you talk about a fair through, for example, the Research Base Funders’ shares allocation, of course research funding is Forum it influences the kind of projects that the driven by excellence. There is a competitive bidding research councils will seek funding proposals in process and it is not driven by formula; therefore, the relation to, to ensure that that fits with the priority extent to which Welsh higher education institutions areas for Welsh universities. I do not think, and I actually get their allocation of research funding is would not be comfortable of getting into a process really down to their own eVorts. of national planning about what science capacity Chairman: We will come back to that in a moment. went to which institutions in which part of the UK. Mrs Siaˆn James. I think that would run very counter to what has been a very successful policy of driving up the quality of research over the last 10 or 15 years. Q913 Mrs James: Minister, I would like to turn to Mr Malster: We do work closely with all the policy coordination now. For the UK part of your devolved administrations and, in particular, the Department’s higher education responsibilities, how funding bodies in relation to capital funding. Up do you ensure that the policies and priorities of the until now there has been the Science Research Welsh Assembly Government are articulated and Investment Fund, SRIF, which has been jointly fed into the policymaking process? funded by the HE budgets of the four countries and Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 47
15 July 2008 Bill Rammell MP, Mr Michael Hipkins, Mr Ashley Malster and Mr Matthew Hamnett the UK Government to try and clear the backlog of Mr Malster: If there was a proposal for a project under-investment in the science facilities. There is which was suYciently attractive to the Research going to be a new one, the Research Capital Council, they felt it met their priorities, that could be Investment Fund, which is basically the same sort of something they looked at; but they would not be idea but looking forward. We have more or less dealt looking at it on the basis that there needs to be a with the backlog and now we are into more of a care strategic site in Wales—there is not one at the and maintenance basis. The idea is that we moment so they must make up that gap. coordinate funding there to make sure that the HE system across the UK has suYcient investment in Q920 Mr David Jones: The point I am trying to get capital facilities, where there has been a tradition in at is that it is not something you are currently the past focussed on getting the grant money in and considering? spending it on paying the academics but leaving the Bill Rammell: No. infrastructure to decline slightly. We have been working together on that particular thing, so there is Q921 Mark Williams: Mr Malster mentioned the funding available for capital in that way. joint funding of the capital infrastructure fund. I am Bill Rammell: Although again the formula for that is just wondering if you could quantify that in terms of driven by performance in terms of how successful how Welsh institutions are benefiting from that, or you are in getting research contracts. perhaps you could send us a note.8 Mr Malster: Yes. Q916 Mrs James: Perhaps the earlier questions, the questions from the Chairman and my first question, Q922 Mark Williams: The Welsh institutions have were about how do we get that dialogue between the benefited from that? Welsh Assembly Government and your Department Mr Malster: Yes, absolutely, we can do that. As the to ensure that everybody is working on a level Minister explained, there is a contribution from the playing field, and that everybody is getting a fair bite UK central government, there is an England HE at the cherry? contribution and then the three devolved Bill Rammell: I think through fora like the Research administrations contribute. The bit we advance is Base Funders’ Forum there is a clear channel of based on a formula which is worked out about how communication; but I would actually resist a move much grant money you get from research, so it to allocate on a fair shares basis because I think that would be roughly along the same lines as the grant would run counter to a policy that has been very money that the Welsh institutions get from the successful in driving up the UK’s research research council budgets in the future. performance nationally. Bill Rammell: Certainly over the last decade that has proved very successful in both English universities Q917 Mr David Jones: Minister, what proposals and Welsh universities, of putting right the historic does your Department have for a UK-wide strategic deficit in terms of capital funding that has taken science site? Science policy is not devolved, is it? place. Mr Malster: I think the general approach is that the science policy operates at a UK level as a whole and Q923 Mark Williams: There is a long way to go? we look to fund excellent science wherever that may Bill Rammell: Yes, but if you talk to academics and be, rather than trying to specify that particular vice chancellors within the higher education sector regions should have particular funding. Obviously they see and feel the diVerence compared to a on certain occasions there are certain sites which decade ago. have built up significance historically—the Mr Malster: One example I remember is the CardiV Daresbury and the Rutherford Appleton Lab area. University brain imaging and repair centre which In particular, because of the significance of it, we got £8 million out of the SRIF programme. That is look at those issues specifically; but in general we do a major investment and one of the key benefits of not try and plan and say, “We need to have a major that sort of investment is that it can help attract investment here and a major investment there”. We world-class scientists to better quality infrastructure look at proposals in terms of the excellence. “Is this so that helps in increasing the excellence level of the best place to invest in the science?” research as well.
Q918 Mr David Jones: Because Higher Education in Q924 Hywel Williams: How eVective is UK-wide Wales seems to think a strategic science site would be coordination for the provision of postgraduate quite a good idea? qualifications for public sector jobs, such as health, Bill Rammell: Again, I am in danger of repeating teaching and those sorts of fields? myself, I think that would run counter to the policy Bill Rammell: I think the coordination is reasonably of actually rewarding research excellence regardless eVective. There is a specific role, for example, for the of its location. I am not a fan of actually saying we Sector Skills Councils in determining what specific should single out a specific institution or a specific qualifications are required looking forward within site and focus a disproportionate amount of funding their particular sectors. There is also an interaction to that site regardless of performance. with the chartered professional groups, particularly in terms of what continuous professional Q919 Mr David Jones: You see no merit in establishing a new strategic site? 8 Ev 134–135 Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
Ev 48 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
15 July 2008 Bill Rammell MP, Mr Michael Hipkins, Mr Ashley Malster and Mr Matthew Hamnett development requirements are necessary to enable Bill Rammell: In terms of our 2009 Commission? professionals across the sectors to maintain their up- to-date professionalism. We have certainly been Q929 Hywel Williams: Yes. encouraging greater liaison between the Sector Skills Bill Rammell: The format timetable and other Councils and the professional bodies and it will be details of that Commission are yet to be announced. one of the issues that is looked at within the re- Undoubtedly part of the work of the Commission licensing of the Sector Skills Councils that we have will be to look at the eVect of the first three years of committed to. I think in terms of mutual variable tuition fees within England; and as part of recognition, the relationship between the National that the Commission will want to look at the eVect Qualifications Framework (NQF) and the credit so far on the devolved administrations. Again, we qualification framework for Wales does appear to cannot avoid the fact that ultimately devolution has V work e ectively. There is that mutual recognition taken place—that is a proposition that I support. across borders. Looking at the picture generally, That will mean that decisions will be taken whilst I am never completely satisfied, I think it is sometimes in Wales that are diVerent from those moving in the right direction. within England. What we need to ensure is that each of us is aware of the decisions that the other is taking Q925 Hywel Williams: I should say I used to teach and the impact of those. on a postgraduate social work course, and used to be on the Central Council for Education and Training. Q930 Hywel Williams: Given that answer therefore, Since then there has been quite a divergence which how do you expect to liaise with the Welsh Assembly has arisen in health and social services between Government’s review of higher education? Wales and England and also a great deal of Bill Rammell: What the Welsh Assembly devolution or autonomy for Welsh bodies regulating Government does with its system is a matter for it. I certain professions in Wales. Do you talk to them am more than happy however, either at ministerial Y directly, regularly, and do your o cials? level or at oYcial level, to talk about our system and Bill Rammell: To which, the professional bodies? the way that, frankly, since the introduction for example of variable fees the system is working well; Q926 Hywel Williams: Yes. acceptances for this year are up by over 7%; Bill Rammell: Certainly we are encouraging that applications for next year are up by over 7%; and the dialogue between the professional bodies and the proportion of students from lower socioeconomic Sector Skills Councils which is where the drive is backgrounds is increasing. I think the presumption coming for the kind of qualifications that we are that was about when variable fees was established in looking for. My experience is that most professional many quarters that actually this would lead to an bodies do work on a UK-wide basis and not a Welsh adverse impact on access, that has simply not basis and an English basis. In terms of particular happened. In the major part that has not happened drivers within Wales as opposed to England, that is because we have got a very progressive system of a feature of devolution. This is about localised student financial support—the reintroduction of accountability, localised decision-making, and grants and targeting support where it is most needed. inevitably that will create some diVerences. Q931 Mark Williams: Returning now to research Q927 Hywel Williams: I am thinking specifically of councils, I know you touched on this in your earlier health and social services, where the Welsh answer. We have had figures from Research Assembly has responsibility and has taken some Councils UK which suggest that 3% of funding has diVerent direction; and also, from my own point of been directed to Wales, whereby the proportion of view, specifically in professions which have a high UK academic staV employed by higher education level of contact with the public, there is also a institutions was around 5%. The variation of substantial language issue in Wales which impacts funding to the diVerent research councils has been on professional qualifications, or does not. How between 2–8%. How do you explain that the Welsh aware are you of those sorts of features? higher education sector gets a lower proportion of Bill Rammell: Certainly we are aware of them. If you Research Council funding than its size would merit? do devolve health responsibility, inevitably that I know you are going to talk about the excellence, means that some diVerent decisions will be taken in but I think some of institutions would argue they are England as opposed to Wales and vice-versa; punching above their weight but Wales is still inevitably the professional bodies will have to losing out? respond to those changes. At oYcial level there is Bill Rammell: I think if you took a particular group monitoring of these processes that taken place. of institutions within England, not naming names, Mr Hipkins: Yes, I think there is. and then looked at their proportion of the total they would not be getting a pro rata allocation in terms Q928 Hywel Williams: In your review of higher of research funding; and I think exactly the same education in England will you be taking into account equation applies within Wales. Certainly the issues of the implications cross-border flows of evidence that was given, for example, from Professor students and the allocation of research funding? It is Merfyn Jones, I looked at his evidence very carefully a specific cross-border issue that we are concerned and he was making the point that Wales gets a lower about here. You are reviewing higher education percentage of Research Council funding than people system in England. might expect and I think it is very diYcult to dispute Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
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15 July 2008 Bill Rammell MP, Mr Michael Hipkins, Mr Ashley Malster and Mr Matthew Hamnett that; and in his view that is because Welsh of that. I think you were right to highlight the institutions are failing to win through the sensitivity of that, some of us representing university competitive bidding process. You cannot get away constituents in Wales. There certainly is a concern from that. We do have an excellence-driven there, particularly about that voice and that competitive bidding process. There is no means of dialogue between university and funding council. lobbying on behalf of individual proposals. Bill Rammell: For example, I have got a meeting However, maybe there is a case for Welsh with the Coalition of Modern Universities, the institutions engaging eVectively within the dialogue Million Plus Group, this afternoon and they would through the Research Base Funders’ Forum to very much share that perspective, that there is not a influence the kind of broad subject areas the fair allocation of research funding. In a sense, I put particular research councils will seek funding for, my hands up and plead guilty to that, that we do which matches the areas that Welsh institutions want research funding to go to the most appropriate specialise in. location driven by performance.
Q932 Mark Williams: It certainly should be placed Q934 Hywel Williams: Can I just ask you the broad on record that many Welsh institutions have been question, Minister: historically have Welsh able to do that and there is a lot of excellence out institutions always done worse in terms of attracting there in the country. That leads on to the next research funding than institutions in England? To question. You said it then and you said it earlier use a racing analogy, if a horse always comes second about the need for institutions to influence the kind it is either a three-legged horse or the ground suits of projects. That is very diYcult when some of the the winner! Which one is it? funding councils have not got Welsh based Bill Rammell: I have not looked at the figures going representatives or suYciently Welsh based back prior to the last five years or so. representatives. That was a point made to us by the Mr Malster: I have only seen them recently where North East Wales Institute for Higher Education. they seem to be broadly setting the same trend. For some funding councils it is very, very diYcult to Bill Rammell: I am happy to provide you with a note get that message across. on what the trend is over time. I do not think there is Bill Rammell: I think, and I know, that the Research an inbuilt disadvantage to Welsh institutions. If you Councils would strongly refute that the academics took a subsection of English universities they would who sit on their research and funding councils are make exactly the same argument that you are representing their sectional interests. They are making on behalf of Welsh institutions. actually there to bring their research perspective, their academic perspective and to ensure that, Q935 Chairman: What you are actually saying is that regardless of where it is coming from, the right you sign up to a self-perpetuating golden triangle institutions, the right departments are actually and that you are not prepared to break out of that getting access to the right amount of research golden triangle. Really you will hear the northwest funding. This is a sensitive subject within higher of England universities making that same valid point education. Every university that I talk to, depending as we are making now. In order to reassure everyone, on its performance, will have a view about how whether they are from the northwest or Wales, it “fair” or “unfair” the system is. What I do know is, may be that you need to challenge that very senior if you look across the advanced world, there has group of people who are actually signing up to that. been an increasing concentration of research Perhaps you need to have some form of peer review funding; and in major part that does lead to an that has an external mechanism—academics from improvement in research performance. That will rub outside the UK—as part of the process. Would you against the desire for research funding to be be afraid of that, or would they be afraid of that? allocated on a formula-driven basis. Bill Rammell: I think through the evaluation process Mr Malster: I totally agree with the point that the there is a constant search to ensure that we genuinely people on the boards are not there to represent recognise excellence. Of course, we have shortly, this sectional interests. Also I do not think it is the case December, got the results of the latest research that the people on the boards are going to be the only assessment exercise, and it remains to be seen ones having an input into the key decisions. I think whether there is a further move towards the research councils, when they are looking at the concentration or maybe some movement back from research priorities, have a bottom-up kind of that. Certainly the move towards the research approach; in the sense that they look to the research excellence framework will maintain a degree of peer community, they ask them and the doors are open review, whilst removing some of the administrative for them to contribute ideas as to where the priorities burdens. We are in a pilot phase at the moment. We should be. It is a question that if the Welsh HEIs have added an additional 12 months to look at the want to make sure their voice is heard they have to way the system works. In terms of external make sure they get in there and they are contributing evaluation that is one of the issues that is reflected and they are taking part. upon. Mr Malster: I think also if you look at the way there Q933 Mark Williams: To reiterate, I think some of has been shown to be a reasonable degree of them are looking to the partnership between correlation between the scores and the income that Aberystwyth University in my constituency and universities are getting and their bibliometric data Bangor in the northwest. There is acknowledgement which shows their performance, it actually shows Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
Ev 50 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
15 July 2008 Bill Rammell MP, Mr Michael Hipkins, Mr Ashley Malster and Mr Matthew Hamnett that in terms of bibliometric data, which is based on colleges both sides of the border. I wondered how international recognition of research, it is not just an that sits with your statement, and do you envisage old boys’ club which gets together and certain people that it is more appropriate in areas where there is not vote for each other: the evidence shows that the provision, say, on the Welsh side for things like externally people recognise the excellence of that e-learning to be used, rather than for them to go research and how it correlates. somewhere which is more local and easy to access, Bill Rammell: Whilst I have been very clear that which is the other side of the border? there has been a concentration of research, I think Bill Rammell: I think the point I was trying to make you can overstate it. There are, from memory, over in the submission is that we do not envisage almost 70 departments in 70 diVerent institutions that get a as part of the planning process for large numbers of five-star rating. Whilst, yes, there is a concentration, students to move across the border. Nevertheless, it is not quite as concentrated as people sometimes one works with the reality and there will be groups maintain. of students who do cross the border and you need reciprocal arrangements in place to ensure that that Q936 Mr Martyn Jones: To what extent are Welsh is financed, and that does indeed happen. I think if universities involved in the Research Councils’ the numbers are large, and this is actually set out in broader initiatives for innovation and knowledge the terms of reference of the Learning and Skills transfer, such as those conducted in collaboration Council, they would need to explore other options, with the Technology Strategy Board? like distance learning, like e-learning, to see if that is Bill Rammell: Certainly, although it is not an easier and more appropriate form of study; geographic representation, there is Welsh presence bearing in mind travelling large distances will be on the Technology Strategy Board. The Funding diYcult in a lot of circumstances, quite apart from Council certainly supports that approach in terms of the funding impact. some of the technology clusters. Welsh institutions are part of that. Q940 Nia GriYth: I think what we are getting at here Mr Malster: In terms of the Research Councils one is where the travelling is actually less by going cross- of the things we are trying to do is get them to drive border than by staying within sometimes if that up the economic impact of their research generally, particular course is available in a college over the things like follow-on funds, and the approach that border. Does that make sense to you? they use. They will be making sure they can try and Bill Rammell: I can see that argument. I am not maximise the impact of all the funding they put going to be desperately dogmatic here. What the through HEIs no matter where they happen to be LSC does is engage in a series of case-by-case based. I am sure they do good work with the Welsh judgments when particular circumstances in cases universities as well as the ones in England. come forward and there are some cross-border movements. We certainly do not have a preset Q937 Mr Martyn Jones: Higher Education Wales planning assumption that we want large numbers of were worried that those kind of things like the students to be travelling across the border, because Technology Strategy Board were becoming over- in some areas of further education, for example influenced by English policy. I do not know if you Train to Gain versus the Workforce Development are aware of that concern and if you are doing Programme within Wales, it is actually a diVerent anything about it? oVer that is available and that comes back to the Bill Rammell: The inevitable nature of a select heart of the devolved settlement, that the Welsh committee inquiry is that people get oV their chest all Assembly Government has the right to pursue its sorts of things that have been worrying them. I have priorities in respect of its constituents, its businesses, to say, and oYcials will correct me if I am wrong, as similarly we do within England. there has not been any formal representation at ministerial level about these concerns. I do not Y Q941 Mr David Jones: If we return to Train to Gain believe there has been any representation at o cial and the Workforce Programme, we have had some level either. evidence before this Committee that a considerable amount of confusion has been caused to both Q938 Mr Martyn Jones: Good. Tell them to tell you trainees and employers over these two programmes, if there are any problems! especially in areas such as northeast Wales, which is Bill Rammell: Indeed. highly populated, where the border is virtually invisible. In other words, we have a large Q939 Nia GriYth: Minister, if I could turn now to conurbation that more or less straddles the border in further education and remind you that you told us in northeast Wales. To what extent is your Department your submission that it is not expected that colleges liaising with the Welsh Assembly Government over in England will recruit entire groups of learners from these programmes to see if at all possible they could outside their local area. This contrasts somewhat be coordinated and that employers in particular do with evidence we have had to this Committee from not feel disadvantaged by not being able to access northeast Wales in Cheshire where we do find that one or the other? particular subject areas perhaps are promoted and Bill Rammell: There is liaison between the Learning have done well in one of the colleges, and therefore and Skills Council and the Welsh Assembly there is a tendency for students to go cross-border Government which is responsible for funding rather than a duplication of provision in both further education and skills within Wales. We need Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
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15 July 2008 Bill Rammell MP, Mr Michael Hipkins, Mr Ashley Malster and Mr Matthew Hamnett to do our level best to ensure that people do whether it is a public sector body or a private sector understand the diVerences. Forgive me, this does cut body, if you are located within Wales you will have the heart of the devolved settlement. The Welsh access to the Workforce Development Programme, Assembly Government has taken a view of what it and you will have access to that Workforce feels its businesses within Wales require, and it is a Development Programme because the Welsh more targeted programme through the Workforce Assembly Government has said, “Given the Development Programme than we have within particular circumstances and skills requirements England with Train to Gain. That is the nature of the within Wales, that is the type of programme we think devolved settlement. That is the decision that has is most beneficial”. Across the border in England been taken in Wales. We have taken a diVerent you have a diVerent set of arrangements. decision within England and, yes, we need to ensure that people are not confused between the two oVers Q944 Mr David Jones: Notwithstanding, as in this but they are actually two distinct and separate oVers. particular case, you are working for a UK institution? Q942 Mr David Jones: I understand that, Minister, Bill Rammell: The same argument could be made but the fact is that the evidence we have had so far is about UK-wide private sector institutions, and that people are confused by the divergences between given the strategy is about securing within that these two programmes. Is there any way that your localised context the appropriate skills to meet Department and the Welsh Assembly Government particular business needs, they will diVer depending could at least coordinate your eVorts so that, for on whether the institution is located within Wales or example, employers can understand the diVerences whether it is located within England. and what support they are able to access? Bill Rammell: Certainly I am prepared to look at Q945 Chairman: Could I end, Minister, by returning that, and I will task the LSC with working with the to the questions I began with, namely, your UK- Welsh Assembly Government to ensure that a clear wide responsibilities. Given, as I understand it, that message is going out to the right businesses in the decisions of Research Councils Boards cannot be right locations so they are aware of what programme appealed against, what mechanism is there, in a is available. What I cannot say to you is that hypothetical situation where an outrageous decision businesses within Wales will generally have access to is taken, or a series of outrageous decisions are the Train to Gain programme because that is a taken, for some means by which you, or the Welsh programme for English businesses. Assembly Government, could make an appeal about those decisions, or are they sacrosanct? Would you Q943 Mr David Jones: There was an anomaly that call in the Chief Executive of a particular Research was actually drawn to our attention by Skills for Council and ask him or her to explain herself? Justice relating to the Prison Service, which of course Bill Rammell: Where we are concerned about trends is not operating under the auspices of the Welsh in allocation of funding there is a dialogue between Assembly Government; it is not devolved. the Department and Research Councils; but we do Nevertheless, staV in Wales working for the UK operate explicitly according to the Haldane principle Prison Service are unable to access Train to Gain. whereby we set the broad macro framework within That does appear odd, does it not? You have got a which research allocation decisions are taken, but body which is not devolved and yet it is not able to Government does not, and I do not believe should, access UK funding. actually intervene in, “Has this institution Bill Rammell: It is interesting, that was exactly the successfully got its research contract, as opposed to subject I was discussing with oYcials this morning. another one”. We do not actually diVerentiate between public Mr Malster: Yes, that is right. sector businesses and organisations and private Chairman: Thank you very much for your evidence sector businesses. It is the location of that institution this morning, and thank you to your colleagues as that actually drives their access. That does mean, well. Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
Ev 52 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
Witnesses: Professor Teresa Rees, Chair of the Rees reviews of Higher Education and Pro Vice Chancellor, CardiV University; Professor Michael Scott, Principal and Mr Andrew Parry, Head of Corporate Communications, NEWI; and Professor Wynn Jones, Principal, Harper Adams University College, gave evidence.
Q946 Chairman: Welcome to the Welsh AVairs universities and those in Welsh Assembly Committee. For the record, could you introduce Government responsible for policy, have been yourselves, beginning with Professor Rees? somewhat introspective in the way you have dealt Professor Rees: My name is Teresa Rees. I am the with matters. You heard the Minister earlier Pro Vice Chancellor at CardiV University. speaking about relationships in a positive way but, Professor Scott: I am Michael Scott. I am the Vice nevertheless, I get a sense that people in Wales have Chancellor of the new university in Wrexham which taken their eye oV the ball in terms of whether came into being formally on 3 July, but is not decisions have been taken here in Whitehall and announced until Friday. It will be announced by the Westminster? First Minister of Wales on Friday. I am still here as Professor Rees: If I could do this without oVending Principal of NEWI, although legally I am not. everybody, I think there is a level of introspection on Mr Parry: I am Andrew Parry, Head of Corporate both sides of the border. I am particularly concerned Communications, NEWI. hearing, for example, the Minister speaking about Professor Jones: Wynne Jones, Principal of Harper communication decisions made in England for Adams University College in Newport, Shropshire. England. We have seen examples where decisions made in England for England can have very severe Q947 Chairman: Thank you for that. I would begin unintended consequences in Wales. For example, with a simple question. First of all, could I thank you when there were diYculties in England in recruiting all for your memoranda; they have been extremely teacher trainers, the idea was developed of giving helpful to us in preparing for this session. Just a people who wanted to train to become teachers a general question to each of you. Has democratic golden hello, and that was fine—an English solution devolution been a good thing? to an English problem. In Wales the Assembly Professor Rees: I think it has been a good thing, but Government were then slightly caught on the back I think we are still at the early stages of a long process foot: do we have this problem in Wales? They got in and there is a lot of tidying-up to be done. There are touch with those who provided teacher training. No, gaps and there are issues of lack of communication there was no problem. Recruitment figures were fine. which are having a deleterious eVect, particularly on As a consequence it was decided not to try and Wales, and they need to be sorted very rapidly. match this oVer. Then what happened was that Professor Scott: I would agree. I think it has been a people in Wales who had applied for and been very good thing. I think it has given a new confidence accepted for the following year in these teacher/ to the people of Wales which is really to be training institutions thought, “Hang on a minute, if applauded. It also brings Government closer to the I apply in England I will get a golden hello. I will people, which is something that I personally favour immediately apply to England”. Then suddenly we greatly. Obviously there are policy issues and there had a crisis in Wales. Then again on the back foot the are operational issues which, in these early days, as Welsh Assembly has to decide to do something. This Professor Rees has said, need to be addressed, and is not joined-up government. I think we need more they are early days even though it is 10 years. than just better communication between the two Mr Parry: I think it has been very successful. I think countries; we need some more joint strategic we have got a framework now for further thinking. That is why I am very, very keen on the developments. I think one of the major challenges joint ministerial committee and the senior civil ahead of us now is to try and get people and servants responsible for further and higher organisations on both sides of the border to accept education really doing some of this strategic how devolution works and understand the new planning together. This does not mean you cannot structures and how to get the best for everyone do diVerent things in diVerent countries but you concerned out of the new structures. have to do it within the context of what is happening Professor Jones: I would add that it has been very elsewhere in the UK. We are not islands. positive viewing from where I am in terms of ownership, stake holding and real confidence and aspirations for providing for the best of Wales. Certainly as regionalisation in England and Q949 Mrs James: This is a question for all of you operating in England, for those of us trying to work about the extent of cross-border provision. Why has within that, it does provide some challenges in there been a decline in the number of English making sure that we are proofing all the policies and students who are applying for higher education implementation across the regions. There is a lot of institution places in Wales? All of you to some extent consultation required to make sure that we are able reported that in your memoranda. Have you any to move across some of these boundaries smoothly. ideas on this? Professor Scott: I think we can look at funding Q948 Chairman: As a follow-up to that, I notice in issues, but I would start at another issue, and that is your evidence, Professor Rees, you look forward in to do with where students traditionally have come the last sentence to the early decade of devolution from into traditional universities in Wales, and you have identified some critical issues. Would particularly the traditional universities in the west of it be fair to say that all of you, both those of you in Wales. They have tended to come from northwest Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
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15 July 2008 Professor Teresa Rees, Professor Michael Scott, Mr Andrew Parry and Professor Wynn Jones
England and from the Midlands. Those traditional are more likely to stick to your home country. I think universities have been in competition with the market among higher education institutions that traditional universities in the big civic cities: we were encouraged to develop is problematic for Liverpool University, Manchester University and potential students. The evidence that we had when Birmingham University. What has happened since we conducted the Rees Review on our education 1992 has been the rise of the post-1992 universities in funding and student support was that students are those cities. You have very large post-1992 very happy to search eBay for the best deal for universities actually in some instances much larger trainers, a holiday, a bike or something, but when it than the city university. Liverpool John Moores is higher education they take it much more seriously University is larger than the Russell Group and they want the right course at the right university, Liverpool University in Liverpool. You institution, and the marketing of it is actually not have a string of these going from the University of helpful to them. Certainly in England I think there is Central Lancashire, through Liverpool, into a view that because the Welsh Assembly Manchester, through StaVordshire, to Birmingham Government subsidises Welsh domiciled students to and Wolverhampton. Those universities, I believe, go to Welsh institutions that somehow they are have actually stemmed some of the flow of English losing out, even if in fact in the interstices of the students to the traditional universities in Wales. I do financial systems they may not be. That complexity, not think that is the case, although I am not sure, for which is an unintended consequence of devolution, CardiV University; but I am sure it is the case for is problematic for student choices, and I think it has some of the west universities. There is an issue I meant more students go local. think related to funding, but I think there is also an issue of market and the fact that those universities, Manchester Metropolitan, Liverpool John Moores, Q950 Mrs James: My next question is about being Birmingham City University, are actually growing proactive. We have touched upon it quite a lot with in reputation; and they are growing in reputation in the earlier evidence, about being proactive in the context of particularly their applied research and Whitehall. Do you think the Welsh higher education in the context of their employability. For my own sector, particularly HEFCW, is suYciently institution on the border we take less students proactive when lobbying in Whitehall? proportionately on the border than those Professor Rees: I think there has been a focus, as universities to the west of us. We take about 23% and your Chairman suggested at the beginning, on they take in the order of 40–43%—I can give you the lobbying ministers within the Welsh Assembly exact figures. We have traditionally taken a more Government. As far as all the parties are concerned, local cohort. Why, because actually we are in a very I think it took a while to identify what was really a populous area in northeast Wales. When you go to Welsh Assembly Government policy issue and what the northwest of Wales you have not got the was still a UK. I think we were all slow to this. It compensation of local students to be able to go to the seems to me there are lots and lots of higher universities, so there starts to be a crisis in terms of education issues that are still UK issues and we may those initiatives. That is a fundamental issue which not have been as active as we should have been in I think gets lost when we almost start to talk identifying those and lobbying appropriately. immediately about funding issues. I think there are Professor Scott: As I was coming into Westminster funding issues and discrepancies of funding and so this morning I was met by my local MP who said that on and so forth, but I think we lose that kind of I seem to come here more than he does! I am sure perspective about the rise of these very, very that is not true but certainly from my perspective, in successful post-1992 universities. trying to develop a new university, I have lobbied Professor Jones: I think it is a characteristic very hard in Westminster. I am happy to put on wherever you are that students tend to go to a record, without the support of my local MP and university within one or two hours travel of home indeed my local MPs, and without the support of regardless—except for a few that have a particular other Welsh MPs, I do not think we would be in this provision. I suppose uniquely our institution has a situation now. They have been incredibly very national spread across regions, but it is a very encouraging and very, very helpful. As have the two specialist one. Looking at some of the big name Secretaries of State for Wales. I have been able, over universities in our region in the west Midlands, they the past years, to see both of those Secretaries of draw up to 50% from that region, and I think it is to State on the issue of the university of title. Certainly do with general human geography issues as much we saw it as being extremely important and spanning as funding. all parties, the four parties represented, so we have Professor Rees: Higher Education Wales and done that. Whether others do that to the same HEFCW are very interested in the cross-border flow extent—this was a particular issue, a particular issue, which is clearly a very sensitive one. My own project, and we felt it was absolutely necessary for institution has not been so much aVected by the the economy of North East Wales that there should decline in the number of students applying to be a university in North East Wales, we see it as institutions in Wales. I think what this evidence absolutely essential that we should have connections shows is that potential students are enormously with North West England, in particular other confused by what the deal is in diVerent countries. institutions in England and elsewhere. Therefore we Even if they would be just as well oV in one country have taken that through, but we have done it as an as another, the confusion about it means that you institution. Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
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15 July 2008 Professor Teresa Rees, Professor Michael Scott, Mr Andrew Parry and Professor Wynn Jones
Q951 Mark Pritchard: Do you think, given the lack research projects, and one of the issues I am hoping of communication which was touched on earlier, the we will get to discuss is the funding gap because that possibility of not enough joined-up government, is a core issue for the Welsh institutions. there is an opportunity for universities and higher education establishments themselves to take the Q953 Alun Michael: Professor Rees, you made a initiative and to try and have joined-up thinking comment earlier—and I just want to clarify the amongst themselves and better communication language—on the question of proactively lobbying amongst themselves, and is one way of delivering in Whitehall and UK institutions as well as within this a possibility of new strategic partnerships across the Assembly and you referred to “parties”. At that Wales and England? I was just wondering whether time I think you meant everybody who was one, you think that is a good idea; two, is it concerned in higher education as distinct from happening; three, what examples do you have if it is political parties. happening? Professor Jones perhaps first. Professor Rees: Oh yes. Professor Jones: I think there is a political will for it to happen at that level and the funding council is Q954 Alun Michael: I thought it was just as well to be certainly very helpful with initiative funding, in that clear because there was then a reference to political they do not put any restriction on where we deliver. parties by one of your colleagues immediately I am thinking particularly now of issues to do with afterwards. I would like to ask you specifically about employer engagement with this particular initiative the recommendation in your review in 2005 because and reaching those who have already passed the that recommended a variable fee system similar to stage of university. It is an area we are very active that which pertains in England, and of course that is with and, certainly, the minister who was here not what was introduced in Wales. Frankly, has that previously has been very supportive of that, not been to the detriment of the higher education development funding for us but no restriction on sector in Wales? where we deliver. The diYculty then becomes maybe Professor Rees: I think we did have the variable fee with some of the agencies below that at the delivery system introduced in Wales, the only diVerence is level and certainly if you are trying to lever money— that the Assembly Government decided that it some money we have had from the funding council would oVer to underwrite the cost of the increase in from our region or other regions or nations, there is fees that was charged for Welsh domiciled students some reluctance for some of that money maybe to going to Welsh institutions. When we think of the pass borders or for HQ to be in one region and the Higher Education Act, the variable fees here was delivery in the other region. It is at the lower level; passed by five votes so it was always going to be a contentious issue and there were lots of political there is enough push and pull maybe at our level and Y probably politically, but there is a little bit in the di culties around the time of the launch of the middle that we need to look at. report. It was absolutely vital that we had what we called—rather a mouthful—an end-loaded income contingent variable fee; the critical thing was that it should be paid when somebody reaches a graduate Q952 Mark Pritchard: I do not want to put words in income rather than upfront. That for me is a your mouth but are you saying that the current fantastic shift and has really done the most towards structures and—dare I use the word—bureaucracies expanding opportunities for people from low are perhaps getting in the way of some future income backgrounds to go to university. In a sense strategic partnerships and also, perhaps more the variable fees is not a diVerent issue, it is just that importantly, joint research projects? If it makes there is the underwriting of Welsh domiciles going to sense for geographical economies of scale and even Welsh institutions. That is something that the Welsh academic economies of scale, given some of the Assembly Government decided that they would synergies between some of the institutions we have pay for. discussed today, it seems unfortunate that bureaucracy is getting in the way of where joint Q955 Alun Michael: Indeed, but that then working can best be put into practice. presumably is paid out of money that would Professor Rees: Speaking from a research intensive otherwise go into the higher education pot, so is university I do not think that is so much an issue. there not a net loss as far as higher education in There is through HEFCW the research and Wales is concerned? collaboration fund and that has enabled quite a lot Professor Rees: Absolutely; you have put your finger of joint research projects across the institutions in on it. I think my view about this is that we did have Wales, bringing strengths together. That has been in the Rees Review “wriggle room” as it was excellent. One of our diYculties though has been— described at the time whereby many of the and I am sure it is true for other universities as well— politicians in the Assembly were very much against that our natural partner on some areas may be in any kind of fees at all. What they could do is oVer fact an institution in England—for us Bristol, very some sort of oVering to subsidise Welsh domiciles close—and I am very pleased that the two funding going to Welsh institutions, but we had in mind councils have now enabled us to apply jointly, something like £500 that would be means-tested. together, for something that cuts across the border. What the politicians decided was actually to That is relatively new and that will benefit all Welsh underwrite the whole amount, the £1,700 odd, and institutions. This is for projects, it is really for not to means test it. It is still the case that it is largely Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
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15 July 2008 Professor Teresa Rees, Professor Michael Scott, Mr Andrew Parry and Professor Wynn Jones middle-class students who go to university so as far Q957 Nia GriYth: We have obviously been talking as I am concerned that is a waste of public money about the fee structure and one of the points made and it would make quite a contribution towards the when it was introduced was that it would encourage estimated funding gap. We think it is about £41 Welsh domiciled students to go to Welsh universities million—and of course it will rise every year—going and that that would be a good thing. What is your to Welsh domiciled students who go to Welsh view on that? institutions, and the funding gap at the moment is Professor Rees: I am very much against any about £61 million; that is for us the critical issue. If restrictions on choice driven by finance; all students I can just add I heard the debate with Mr Rammell should choose the course and the place that is earlier, I do not think any institution in Wales is appropriate for them. If we have students from the against research funding through research councils Valleys who want to study at Oxford, why should we following excellence, what we are really concerned be trying to steer them somewhere else? I just feel it about is the lack of core funding that we have in is inappropriate; there should be complete student Wales for higher education vis-a-vis England, that is choice in where they study. the real problem. Professor Jones: Can I come in on that? Particularly Professor Scott: I would agree with what has just with some of the courses in my own institution which been said, although with some caveats. Within my are an exemption degree for rural practice chartered own institution, of course, we do specialise in people surveyors, a BEng degree in agricultural coming from the lower socio-economic classes and engineering—we are the last resort in the UK, it is we have probably got a higher proportion of them not anywhere else—and one or two degrees in than any university in Wales; that is one point. The veterinary nursing, accredited with the Royal second point is I also agree about research money College of Veterinary Nursing, they are not following excellence, but we have got to find some available in Wales and therefore it would be an kind of way in order to fund new universities in the unwise decision. Not every nation or region can context of getting a research base because without provide for those because the market is not big research there is no such thing as a university, it is a enough, so I think one has to be aware of certain distinguishing feature of the university, so that has strands of specialism within this debate as well got to occur. The third thing I would say is clearly, as rather than take a broader look, and I think some a new university, I have got to work with established sort of mapping or proofing to understand some of universities in order to be able to establish our own the outlying provision is quite important in that university. That is a traditional way of creating a context. university. We do work closely with CardiV University, particularly in the development of Y clinical skills in North Wales, which we are very Q958 Nia Gri th: Do you actually think that V proud of, and in other areas, and we work with other students have been put o taking the courses that V V universities in Wales. However, we need to be able you o er, they have said “I will go for a di erent V to work closely also with universities just across the subject because of the funding di erences”? border. We have another Russell university in very, Professor Jones: There was a wobble when the fees very close proximity to us, Liverpool University, were introduced where people were not quite sure and a test case will be going to HEFCW within the what it meant and the numbers dropped, but now we next few months about us developing a course with are in a steady state again. Probably people are Liverpool University to be taught within North getting to it and understand what the implications Wales. When I have tried that before the are and work through it. bureaucracy has been such—I was trying to do it Professor Scott: We give bursaries to ensure that the with Chester University—that the Vice-Chancellor English students will still come to us and that is very of Chester and I just said this is going to be too important. Where this starts to get more diYcult to do and we backed oV. I do not want to complicated is within the funding regime and it then back oV with Liverpool University, it is very is gearing it in the way that Professor Rees was important for my development that I am working outlining and not actually tackling some other with a university of that quality, as it is that I am issues. If you are an institution that is specialising in working with CardiV. widening participation, then the demands being made on you as an institution are really costly. You cannot teach a higher education level in the Q956 Alun Michael: That was very helpful. Can I traditional way for widening participation among just go back to your first sentence though because students who are coming from communities which you referred to the follow-on to my question to have never ever sent students to university before. Professor Rees. If you are taking more students from There has got to be a greater gearing than there is at poorer backgrounds then presumably, were there to the moment to those institutions which do specialise be a means test, you would get the additional income in widening participation; however you do not then and your poorer students would still have the want to set up a two-tier system so that middle-class advantage. Was that the point you were making? students will go to CardiV University and the poorer Professor Scott: It was the point I was making, yes, students will come up to the new university in and I would be delighted, but I would not actually Wrexham or whatever, so that leads you into have said that with Professor Rees next to me. To get another kind of series of fundamental questions. If some money from CardiV would be indeed a you get a situation whereby you will have female triumph. students who suVer domestic abuse because they are Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
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15 July 2008 Professor Teresa Rees, Professor Michael Scott, Mr Andrew Parry and Professor Wynn Jones going to the university and their partner beats them fees. Looking at this on the basis of research up and they have nowhere to go except to come to internationally, the higher the fees charged the more the university, and they arrive at the university with bursaries and that is the critical thing. If it is end- children at nine o’clock at night, we have to have the loaded and if you really want low income people to resource to be able to link in with the social services be able to go to university you need to charge higher of course and to be able to handle that. If you have fees, and because it is counterintuitive people often a situation where the students are under great end up voting for the opposite of what they pressure, psychological and economic pressure, intended. I would also like, if I may, just to go back within their communities because they are going to to Mrs James’ point about Welsh domiciled students university, you have got to be able to handle that and going to Welsh institutions and why I think it is a you have also got to be able to handle the cultural bad idea to constrain choice in that way. I remember change. With everybody around here there is no in Ireland when they were trying to develop the IT problem about universities, there is no problem industry they developed a lot of IT courses in about going into a university, but with some of the universities but the industry was not really there to students that we have there is a huge problem about absorb all these graduates, so they had to go oV to going over the threshold and meeting professors, Japan and US and whatever to pursue their careers. PhDs, funny clothes—what is all this about? They But then the diaspora eVect kicked in and they came do not know and therefore they are deterred. You back with fabulous international experience, set up therefore have a big communication issue which has companies and then, 10 years after the Irish to be funded, but that is not funded in the same way Government intended, the IT industry really kicked as a priority in my view that research is funded. oV. I think that can work for us but if we do not What you then find is that a university such as mine allow in eVect, by financial constraints, Welsh gets a double whammy; we do not get the research people to go and be educated elsewhere or to leave pump-priming and we do not actually get adequate after they have graduated for postgraduate or funding, in my view, for providing participation. employment opportunities, we will be shooting ourselves in the foot. Q959 Alun Michael: Really what we are exploring Chairman: I am very conscious of the time and there here to some extent is unintended consequences and are two major areas we have not covered. I would adjustment to change and I would just like to ask ask everyone now—not the witnesses obviously—to whether there are other eVects that have arisen from be a little more disciplined in the number of the disparity between the grant assistance available supplementaries that they are asking. Could I try to to Welsh students who study in Wales compared to move forward, I will call Mr Pritchard in later but England? Is there anything we have not covered? could we now move forward to Mr Martyn Jones. Professor Rees: Yes. Do you want to focus on the students rather than the research because I have Q961 Mr Martyn Jones: Two questions to Professor quite a list of the research funding diYculties? Scott on the new university in Wrexham. Is the name . . . Q960 Alun Michael: I am not surprised that you Professor Scott: The name will be announced by the have a long list on research and I dare say you ought First Minister on Friday. to have the opportunity to give it to us, but I did want to focus on the students, yes. Q962 Mr Martyn Jones: In your written evidence Mr Parry: One of the interesting things about the you imply that some Welsh students who have eVect of fees on student recruitment is really it does studied in England might subsequently be prevented not seem to have had too much eVect particularly on from practising professionally in Wales because of the young students, the ones under 21, but it does curricula and policy diVerences. Is this a diYculty seem—and this reinforces something that Professor you have met in practice? Rees said earlier—that students who are young are Professor Scott: This is a reference in particular to a more interested in the whole student experience, decision made on the recommendation of HEFCW employability and whether the courses are that initial teacher training should close in North particularly relevant to what they want. It is the East Wales, with the argument being made that mature students who are more interested in the initial teacher training will then, for North Wales, be finance and more aVected by the finance because in centred on Bangor and Aberystwyth. The argument many cases they have other expenses already—they is mainly concerned with Welsh medium teaching, have family commitments and other expenses—and which we support; however, we have a significant so it does have an eVect on them. As an institution problem on this because all our teacher trainers go where we have got 75% of our students who are through a Welsh second language, we have set up a mature we are in a rather precarious position Welsh second language centre which is doing because we are greatly influenced by that cost eVect extremely well under a lecturer called Julie Brake on student recruitment. who wrote Teach Yourself Welsh and has done a lot Professor Rees: Can I just follow up with two small on the Web with Welsh, but we are going to find that points. It is counterintuitive this; people have been if teacher education ceases as is planned and as is traditionally against fees because they think that it recommended by HEFCW in 2010 in North East discriminates against low income, but it is a mistake Wales then we believe that our students will travel to in my view to call them fees, it is really a Chester. 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15 July 2008 Professor Teresa Rees, Professor Michael Scott, Mr Andrew Parry and Professor Wynn Jones curriculum and therefore will be lost to Wales. We Professor Scott: Again, we are going to get problems have lost the argument so far with HEFCW on that in relation to further education colleges. Just on the matter but I think it is a matter of strategy and it is edge of the border there is West Cheshire Technical a matter of strategic vision. College which has the power to do foundation degrees. If you are widening participation in institutions it is absolutely essential that you are Q963 Mr Martyn Jones: Thank you for that. Also, taking foundation degree students. Fortunately, at Professor, your institution is very close to the the moment, foundation degree powers are not English border—I do not know how many miles as being given to FE colleges in North Wales because the crow flies. at the present time that would cause too much of a Professor Scott: Six miles. strain on the development of the new university in terms of taking students away, because they are Q964 Mr Martyn Jones: I was going to say five or already going to be taken away within North West six. Are there other cross-border issues—good or England. It is not just the universities, therefore, that bad—which you would like to draw the attention of are hugely competitive with us—and they are the Committee to? competitive in the sense that they get a lot of capital Professor Scott: There is an issue for us which is to funding as well. There has been a huge amount of do with the economy of North Wales. The economy capital funding going into the University of Chester, of North Wales is linked to Manchester and there is a huge amount of capital funding going into Liverpool, to the two big cities. Of course, our the University of Cumbria since it was created, over national identity and our political relationship is £50 million I believe going into the University of south to CardiV, but the growth of the economy in Worcester since its creation. There is not the money CardiV—which is the growth of a city, in fact the in Wales to go into the creation of a new university. growth of three cities: CardiV, Swansea and We were given—and I am very grateful for it—£5.3 Newport—is not being replicated in North Wales, million which we worked very hard for, with a lot of nor is it aVected in North Wales by what is lobbying here and in the Welsh Assembly, but it is happening down south. Therefore there is a tension, nothing compared with the investment going into I believe, in North East Wales in particular. That is new universities over the border, absolutely nothing. exacerbated in North East Wales because of Objective One funding which does not apply in North East Wales but applies, rightly, in North West Q966 Mark Pritchard: I wanted to give Professor Wales where money can be pumped in and get Jones an opportunity, this is a cross-border inquiry matched funding, but it has nothing to latch onto. and clearly there are students coming over to Harper Then you say what is happening in North East Adams in Shropshire, England; if you had a magic Wales? In North East Wales you have generally a wand what would you wish to see improved in the high pay, low skill economy and it is probably the cross-border flow of funds and students? last example of that certainly in England and Wales. Professor Jones: There are probably two areas, very You have got to change that economy round. We are quickly. There is a big distance between Harper not changing it round because we have not got the Adams and Aberystwyth, which is a journey I make investment that is going in around the creation of a regularly having a house in Aberystwyth. There was city; meanwhile in North West England that is being a review in 2004, HE in Herefordshire, Powys and changed round, it has been changed round with Shropshire that looked at the demand side, but it Manchester and Liverpool, so the wealth of North looked at the demand side of any business with more West England is building and I believe a crisis is than 10 employees. Our focus is on rural micro- building in North East Wales which is an economic businesses and a lot of the discussion here today has crisis which has not actually yet been seen. If you did been on a certain type of student, maybe a have a situation where there was a problem with traditional age group. We have the challenge in the Airbus—and we already know despite the good rural sector of bringing higher skills—not news not so long ago about the order from the necessarily higher qualifications—into rural micro- United States that that has now been held up by businesses and assisting rural entrepreneurs, so we Congress—in particular in North East Wales there have to work and have a smoothing of some of the would be a significant problem in the economy of procedures there. Equally, a recent review of land- North East Wales which we saw in South Wales based studies in England highlighted that 40% of HE when we saw the closure of the mines and steel and was delivered in the further education sector, for so on. That is what is happening, that is what a good reasons of geography, and in fact only 30% was university needs to be telling you and also that is why delivered in the university sector at all. Two of those we need to be co-operating with North West universities, the two main ones I am sure—if the England in order to try and bring that economy RHE does not go well in December—could well be across, but the funding actually is not there. out of agriculture, so there are very good strategic reasons for us to look at research provision. I do not Q965 Mr Martyn Jones: That is a very important buy into the research concentration of basic research point that I agree with. Are there any other issues in as much as others, maybe because our focus is that area? 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15 July 2008 Professor Teresa Rees, Professor Michael Scott, Mr Andrew Parry and Professor Wynn Jones have to work together in that and bring the industry, incredibly diYcult to extract that budget from the the micro-businesses, with us, so there are a lot of NHS in Wales, frankly because the NHS in Wales is issues there. under-funded and it is needed to subsidise clinical Chairman: Can we just move on now? There are two practice, so we lose out in that way again. I sat on the major areas that we still have not covered; Mr Mark HEFCW strategic research committee and time Williams wishes to ask some questions on diverging after time there were new initiatives announced to investment policies, particularly with regard to the protect vulnerable subjects and so on and so forth; funding gap. in each case I would ask the question is this being matched by HEFCW and the answer was almost always no because they did not have the resource. Q967 Mark Williams: This may well be an Most recently we have seen DIUS announce quite a opportunity for Professor Rees and her long list. lot of very interesting reviews of higher education in What are the practical implications and England and has announced some quite helpful consequences of low levels of funding across the schemes—for example, if you donate to a university border, not least the gap that has been highlighted of in England that donation will be matched. This does £61 million in 2005–06. Do you agree with Higher not happen in Wales. My own institution has just Education Wales’ statement in evidence when they received a donation of £5 million, which is fantastic, said “such persistent under-investment from the but that will not be matched because we are in Wales Assembly Government will significantly frustrate not in England, so at all of these levels we seem to be the ability of universities to create a knowledge missing out on opportunities to build up the economy at a time when Wales’s economic infrastructure and the capability—capacity performance is lagging behind the rest of the UK”? building, as my colleague Professor Scott was You touched earlier on possible solutions, but how referring to—to do research and to be competitive to do we address that funding gap? do research with colleagues in the rest of the UK. I Professor Rees: I absolutely do agree with that do not think that was what devolution was intended statement and although there is a huge diversity of to do and that is why my argument through all of type of higher education institutions in Wales, we all this is we need a strategic framework to ensure that V feel it in di erent ways. We are all operating in we have a UK perspective, particularly on research V di erent competitive markets as it were, not funding, negotiating with the European Union— particularly with each other interestingly enough, that is not something that should happen by the V because of where we are spatially and the di erent devolved administrations. We need to do far more of sorts of institutions we are. One of the issues that that work to ensure that we do not end up with a very concerns me considerably is about research, if I can higgledy-piggledy higher education sector whose just focus on that for a moment. I do not want to talk strength lies in unintended consequences of the about research councils because actually I think we devolution process. are all fairly happy with the way that the research councils operate, but it is the other side, the QR (quality related research), but particularly the way in Q968 Mark Williams: What are the practical which government departments and charities are big implications of that? You have talked about funders of research. The Westminster Government students and the fees regime and how that has made the decision, when research councils went to a conspired in some of our views against Wales. What full economic costing—it is a bit of a misnomer about in terms of numbers of applicants, has there because it is actually 80%—for research, that this been a feed-through there? would apply to government departments and they Professor Rees: The cross-border flows are terribly would make good the gap for charities so that sensitive and if you have a policy on one side of the charities would not have to spend more of their border—and it would be England because it is so money on overheads in eVect. That was fine, but that much bigger—that can have an incredible eVect in only applied to England. At the bottom of all of this Wales, and it is the only cross-border that really has is the Barnett formula, which means that the Welsh that impact, it is not the same with the other Assembly Government is having to decide whether devolved administrations. If you think that roughly to put money into hospitals or education. It is all half the students in Wales are going across the incredibly tight and in the sector we understand that, border and roughly half the students in Wales come but the eVect of this means that essentially if you are from across the border, given the relative size of the a government department and you want to fund two countries any tinkering with policies can either research, there are good reasons for doing it in bankrupt three Welsh institutions or make it very England rather than in Wales and for a Welsh diYcult for access students in Wales to compete with institution it means it is actually financially diYcult very highly qualified students coming across the for us to apply for charity money or government border from England. I think, therefore, that it is money that comes from the Assembly because it responsibility of the ministers for education in the does not always have that full economic funding. We four countries to think about these issues from a UK also have enormous diYculties in the research perspective. It does not mean that higher education allocation which is in the NHS which in England has should not be devolved, but you cannot have one been sorted out recently, that that budget should be country making a decision, particularly England, spent on research. In Northern Ireland it is actually and saying “You can do what you like in the other earmarked, there is £12 million for research in the countries” because that decision aVects the other NHS budget and that is for that. In Wales it is countries and in particular Wales. Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 59
15 July 2008 Professor Teresa Rees, Professor Michael Scott, Mr Andrew Parry and Professor Wynn Jones
Q969 Mark Williams: As the last question from me, broad issue do you think we get our fair share from you mentioned the issue of core funding for the Department of Innovation, Universities and research. We are not deviating from the excellence Skills? debate, it is there and Welsh higher education Professor Rees: No. institutions seem to be performing very well. How receptive has the Government been to your views on Q972 Hywel Williams: You are saying no? the need for some core component to the research Professor Rees: Definitely. base which, again a constituency interest, is particularly important to some of our universities Q973 Hywel Williams: That is fine. Professor Rees, in Wales? you did say earlier on that one of the questions was Professor Rees: It is not simply the research base, it about core funding but you seemed fairly sanguine is really the infrastructure. There are issues to do about the way that the research councils were with the infrastructure of the buildings in Wales and allocating funds. I think there is some sympathy in the Welsh Professor Rees: Yes, I have served on research Assembly Government and among ministers and councils myself and I am very confident that they are politicians for higher education. We were in a fair and they follow excellence, but the diVerence situation some years ago where the nature and with the funding gap, the investment gap as it is potential growth of the funding gap was not sometimes called, of £61 million is that academics in properly appreciated, but I think that the tide has Welsh institutions are going to have less time to turned and that politicians are now aware and I am develop research skills, put bids together, go to hearing from them a lot more sympathy across the conferences and all of that, that is the issue. board with the situation that higher education Y institutions are in. The di culty is where would that Q974 Hywel Williams: To develop the analogy that money come from? I used earlier on, that particular horse is not even Professor Scott: Chairman, if I may, there is a sense getting to the starting line, let alone running the race. of de´ja` vu for me in this, and what I am about to say Professor Rees: Absolutely. is no criticism of the Welsh Assembly Government, it is just a description of the situation. My higher Q975 Hywel Williams: Can I just refer to the £200 education experience over 30 years has been million that has been allocated for matched polytechnic into university, first at Sunderland and fundraising. Do you know if that has Barnett then at Leicester. What happened whilst we were in consequentials or not, is there money from that the polytechnics and were funded by local councils coming to the Welsh Assembly Government which was that the pressures on the local councils were so is then not being passed on or is it new money or not? great that they could not actually invest in the Professor Rees: I do not know and of course it is only infrastructure of the polytechnics. The starting in August so it is a bit diYcult to unpack infrastructure investment came after the that. But we are certainly clear that there are some polytechnics became free and independent of local elements of these decisions which do have a Barnett council finances. Ironically what I am seeing here formula element and it is not at all clear—this is under devolution is a similar kind of problem; it is another diYculty—whether that comes down, and if not a criticism of the local councils, it is not a it does come down is it necessarily spent on higher criticism of the devolved government—I am not education? That is again one of the benefits of saying that our Government is acting like a local devolution, they can decide how to spend it, but it council but is the same kind of problem. The issues means that we are competing with institutions across that are there for the devolved government are to the border which have that resource. make strategic choices in relation to policy for the country as a whole, of which higher education is a part. That was the same kind of thing for Leicester Q976 Hywel Williams: Could you, for the benefit of and the same kind of thing for Sunderland, and what the Committee therefore, perhaps in a written occurred was really that we got to a position where submission identify those issues which you think are the buildings were in such bad repair that the people Barnett consequentials so that we can pursue the had to move out. That will happen. money trail as it were to see whether, if there are Barnett consequentials, they are coming to the Welsh Assembly Government and are they coming Q970 Hywel Williams: The analogy of the funding out to you?9 from the Welsh Assembly Government that you Professor Rees: Certainly. make there with funding for polytechnics from local authorities is an interesting one. The Welsh Q977 Hywel Williams: Can I invite you to do that? Assembly Government of course is dependent on the Professor Rees: Thank you. block funding that we get. Professor Scott: Yes. Q978 Mr David Jones: Could I turn to the Denham review, please? If the review were to lead to an Q971 Hywel Williams: A couple more questions expansion of higher education in England what therefore just on the broad issue. Do you think that would you say would be the consequences for higher Welsh higher education gets its fair share? I am not education in Wales? sure how I would define “fair” by the way because you could unpack that in several ways, but on the 9 Ev 172 Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
Ev 60 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
15 July 2008 Professor Teresa Rees, Professor Michael Scott, Mr Andrew Parry and Professor Wynn Jones
Professor Rees: I think it is a strange place to start to Q981 Mr David Jones: To what extent are Welsh look at the expansion of higher education in just one universities engaging with the Denham review? of the countries. Why? Professor Rees: Through Higher Education Wales we will be engaging, but there is a question to what extent is one invited to the table. I am very concerned Q979 Mr David Jones: But Mr Rammell would about the particular review about lifting the fees cap, undoubtedly say that that is devolution. and what we were hearing from the minister is of Professor Rees: Yes, but there are responsibilities at course the other countries will be informed, but that UK level for higher education and if you are making is in a sense, in my understanding of it, not enough, a decision about expanding the sector then it is very you need to do a scenario of if this happens in strange to do that in just one country. I do not England, what will be the eVect on these other understand the point of that—why not discuss the countries? That needs to be factored into the issue with the other ministers for higher education decision-making. and say should we do this at a UK level? I do not know that that has been asked. The issue of Q982 Mr David Jones: I was just about to ask you, devolution has meant people are coy about talking what are your concerns about lifting the fee cap? about UK strategic level policy-making for fear Professor Rees: If the fee cap is lifted in England, perhaps of appearing to be taking over, whereas which I personally think should happen because the what that means is that there is then a gap. sector, not just in Wales, is under-funded—we are Professor Scott: If I could add to that, this is an expected to be as competitive and leading edge as we economic issue. If we are going to expand higher are and provide mass education—then it will have education then expanding higher education because very serious eVects in Wales, particularly as the the economy requires graduate level jobs goes back Assembly has committed itself up to 2009–10 to to something that I was talking about earlier. If it is providing this subsidy for Welsh domiciled students an economic issue it is an economic issue which going to Welsh institutions. I do not see how that can actually is involved with Westminster as well as be sustained so there would have to be a policy V Cardi equally—it must be. If we do not see that change on that, but that would be a policy change what we are going to find is that there is going to be brought about in response to what has happened an economic division. What this is is just a symptom. over the border rather than as the politicians and the The under-funding or the funding gap in the Welsh Assembly Government might see it, driven by universities in Wales will just be seen as a symptom what they think is best in Wales. about economic decline between the two countries, because if you are not educating your workforce to the same levels in the two countries, either we are Q983 Mr David Jones: Is it fair to say that the going to have to bring in people from England to do funding gap is likely to increase? Professor Rees: Certainly. If the cap is lifted in all the jobs that we have got—there is a big problem England and the situation in Wales remains as the with that, people are living in Wales because they are status quo well, frankly, that is pretty much the end not qualified to do the jobs—or you are not going to of higher education; why would you want to go to grow the economy in the same way. It is not university in Wales even if you get a subsidy when something, with the greatest respect, that is just there the investment is such that it just cannot deliver the for the department of education, it is there within the business. context of the economy of the country as a whole, of the United Kingdom. Q984 Mr David Jones: Do you know to what extent the Welsh Assembly Government is engaging with Q980 Mr David Jones: Mr Scott, clearly you have the Denham review; are you aware of that? concerns about the potential economic impact. Professor Rees: I am not aware of that. I am sure Professor Rees, what do you think are the potential there are communications there, there are bound to implications for Wales because the answer you gave be, between ministers and civil servants, but I think was we would not start from here in the first place; what I have been trying to argue all along is that we it is ongoing; what are your concerns about the need much more proactive dialogue and planning implications for Wales? between ministers and senior civil servants on higher Professor Rees: Again, it is the lack of a strategic education across the UK. The absence of that has framework that concerns me. We have to take into already caused enormous diYculties and if we do not account in devolution that the four countries are not address that it will be disastrous, frankly. of the same size; it is this issue that one country, Professor Scott: I would agree with that. particularly England, in making a decision has eVects on the other countries whether anybody Q985 Chairman: It occurs to me that without intends it or not. If one does not take that into demeaning the relationship what you are describing account—and I think after 10 years we have seen is a very serious situation and this occasional chat or enough examples of this—then in a sense how can this meeting three or four times every year is not the Welsh Assembly Government plan for what what you would aspire to, a strategic framework. might be the outcome? We do not know what the Professor Rees: No. There is a joint ministerial outcome of these reviews may be—it does not make committee but my understanding is that for many any sense to me. years it never met. Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 61
15 July 2008 Professor Teresa Rees, Professor Michael Scott, Mr Andrew Parry and Professor Wynn Jones
Professor Scott: Chairman, I would fully support down and sort it out, it becomes a thing that one that. I was asked to a meeting with John Denham learns to live with in a sense and gets increasingly last week; I thought it was a very valuable meeting worried about. but I was the only person from Wales there and I certainly felt on the periphery of it, even though they made me welcome and so on. The issues really were Q988 Chairman: It seems that the priorities are not focused at all on Wales, they were focused on somewhat askew. There is a stated science policy in England. Similarly, I had a breakfast meeting with the Assembly without a budget line. Bill Rammell and on that occasion again I was the Professor Rees: Yes. only person from Wales, although Deian Hopkin from South Bank was there. Again, it was very clear Q989 Chairman: And it does not relate to the science that this was an English discussion. policy of the UK Government? Chairman: Mr Jones, have you finished? Professor Rees: Yes, exactly. Mr David Jones: I could go on, Chairman. Chairman: We will try and round this up now. There are a few more questions; Mr Alun Michael. Q990 Chairman: It seems that the science policy was a knee-jerk reaction to a very strongly worded memorandum led by Sir John Cadogan rather than Q986 Alun Michael: This is one that could open up a proper policy debate within the Welsh Assembly and become very wide as well so can I suggest it Government. might be useful for some thoughts afterwards; it is really what do you hope will come out of the recently Professor Rees: I absolutely agree and I think again announced Welsh Assembly Government review of it is strange if the UK ends up with four or even five higher education in Wales? I suppose a secondary science policies because, again, science does not question really is do you hope that it will look at know national boundaries, it just does not work like higher education in Wales in the wider context of the that. I think what the Welsh Assembly Government UK and beyond and not just look at it traditionally did was to look at its own manifesto priorities and in terms of the comparison between the situation in try and identify what science it would need, what Wales and England? research it would need, to try to inform those Professor Rees: Absolutely. We are in an policies, and that is one way I guess of developing a international market for students and for research science policy. In a sense, however, you would not funding; they do not know barriers and national want to be restricted to just choosing what research borders so I certainly hope that will be the case. happened to go on in your backyard, you would Alun Michael: It is clear that there is a parallel presumably take the best science from wherever it situation that is bound to be there between the final was to inform that policy. Science policy is another stages of our cross-border inquiry and the work of area where there is a lack of joined-up thinking and that, and the more synergy we can have between the we could end up with something that looked rather two the better. May I suggest that you could let us odd if we do not try to have a UK approach as well have a note about your hopes for the outcomes of as whatever priorities the devolved administrations that which we can then take into account in our and England want to put on their own version of it. work?10 Q991 Chairman: It seems to me that Secretary of Q987 Chairman: You began by making reference to State Denham had a responsibility within his own the fact that there should be consultation and I department to help lead the debate on a UK-wide alluded to your closing remarks in your strategy which it appears he has failed to undertake. memorandum which have been the theme really of Professor Rees: I do not know whether he tried to your evidence today, “The next stage of devolution undertake it and people did not respond, I have no should ensure that there is more consultation across idea, but it does seem to me that there is a danger of borders and more decision-making informed by the thinking, right, it is just England now. new landscape, otherwise the unforeseen Professor Scott: There is an issue, Chairman, about consequences, especially those for Wales, will be devolution, if I may say so. I began by saying that highly detrimental.” We posed the question to devolution is a very good thing and it has boosted Higher Education Wales and to HEFCW about the the confidence of the people of Wales. I believe that nature of the debate, the dialogue, going on in Wales absolutely fully and I think the country itself is and now, clearly, across the United Kingdom. It trying to go forward. I do not think that when seems to me highly unsatisfactory; would you share devolution came about these sorts of issues that are that view? now coming to the surface were actually thought Professor Scott: It is the lack of a framework. There about within the context of England and its are conversations going on between diVerent relationship with the Government here and its bodies—Universities UK addressed the issue of relationship with the Government in Wales or devolution recently for about an hour in one of its Scotland. I do not think it was thought about and I meeting. I do not think anybody quite knows what think we are playing catch-up a bit. to do about it; it is one of those diYculties where, Chairman: Short of opening up that debate no doubt because of a lack of an arena where people can sit the members of the new convention will be addressing this matter very thoroughly. Could I 10 Ev 172 thank you for your evidence today? It has been a Processed: 23-12-2008 03:28:24 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG5
Ev 62 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
15 July 2008 Professor Teresa Rees, Professor Michael Scott, Mr Andrew Parry and Professor Wynn Jones very comprehensive discussion but if there is please feel free to write to us, we look forward to anything further that on reflection you wish to add receiving anything you want to add. Thank you to it, in light of the open-ended questions at the end, very much. Processed: 23-12-2008 03:33:47 Page Layout: COENEW [SO] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG6
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 63
Tuesday 7 October 2008
Members present
Dr Hywel Francis, in the Chair
David T C Davies Mr Martyn Jones Nia GriYth Alun Michael Mrs Siaˆn C James Mark Pritchard Mr David Jones Mark Williams
Witnesses: Mr David Rosser, Director, and Mr Leighton Jenkins, Head of Policy, CBI Wales, gave evidence.
Q992 Chairman: Good morning and welcome. which will impact directly on companies and their Could I first of all ask you to introduce yourselves day-to-day activities. There are a couple of examples for the record, please? here. Building regulations being devolved to the Mr Rosser: Yes. I am David Rosser, Director for the Welsh Assembly Government will have a tangible CBI in Wales. impact on companies involved in the development Mr Jenkins: Leighton Jenkins, Head of Policy for industry. The Welsh Assembly is currently the CBI in Wales. developing a policy on fees or contributions from employers towards post-19 education and training. Depending where that policy ends up, one could see Q993 Chairman: First of all, could I thank you for very real diVerences to companies in the day-to-day the memorandum you sent us and for the operating environment. What would business like to comprehensive nature of the memorandum. Whilst see happening as a result of these diVerences? I think, this session is essentially about education and first of all, the key issue is one of communicating to training, we are keen to ask you about other business. The Welsh Assembly Government, when it questions in response to your memorandum, so it is imposing and implementing diVerent policies must will be somewhat more wide-ranging, and I communicate how the environment in Wales is understand that you would welcome that. diVerent and what companies can expect to see in Mr Rosser: We would, thank you. Wales. Some of the written evidence from Airbus is particularly pertinent in that respect. The other issue that we are quite keen to push at the Welsh Assembly Q994 Chairman: First of all, could I just ask a Government is that the calculation of the costs of general question about what impact devolution has diVerent policy decisions in Wales should be made at had for employers located near to the Wales/ a very early stage and made in a very transparent England border. fashion. The Welsh Assembly Government is Mr Rosser: I think increasingly we are seeing V currently consulting on an Impact Assessment Code di erent policy environments developing in Wales to match the Impact Assessment Code which compared to the rest of the UK, and in particular operates for the UK Government on UK policy. We England. It strikes us that is a natural consequence are very keen that should be as wide as possible so of devolution. that where we have diVerent policy decisions taken by a democratically elected government in the Welsh Q995 Chairman: We have acoustic problems in this Assembly we understand the consequences and room. where those costs will fall. Mr Rosser: I am sorry. It strikes me we have had an increasingly diVerent policy context developing in Q996 Mr Martyn Jones: Where further and higher Wales from that which employers see in England education policies diVer between England and and the rest of the United Kingdom and that is an Wales, are those diVerences made clear to you as an entirely natural consequence of the devolution organisation? process. There are two broad impacts on business Mr Rosser: They are sometimes clear and sometimes arising from that. Firstly, there are consequences in less so to us as a business organisation. To individual what I would call the general business environment companies they are frequently not clear until a within which companies operate. I have some company tries to access funding to introduce examples here: the lower use of public-private apprenticeships or whatever other training scheme it partnerships, for example, including PFI, in Wales is is looking to do and then discovers that actually leading to diVerent infrastructure pressures and less things have changed and maybe are diVerent from its investment in the public infrastructure in Wales and, English operations. That is not always worse; just indeed, lower business opportunities for companies diVerent. I have one example of a company which which might otherwise have been involved in those operates across south Wales and the south-west markets, and that is of general concern. DiVerent which implements apprenticeships in both areas. It planning regimes and diVerent policies towards a found the system much easier to get into in the reform of planning is something else which impacts south-west of England. The Learning and Skills on the general business environment. The second Council is a much more visible point of entry into the broad impact is around specific policy decisions system than the DCELLS (Department for Processed: 23-12-2008 03:33:47 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG6
Ev 64 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
7 October 2008 Mr David Rosser and Mr Leighton Jenkins
Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills) Mr Jenkins: I would like to say that in terms of might be in the Welsh Assembly Government. Once companies that we have spoken to, they have said into the system, using a private sector training they would appreciate more understanding of what provider, they found that the Welsh system worked happens post-devolution. In some ways, the Welsh a little more flexibly and was a little more Assembly Government has developed the encouraging, but it was not until the company was conventional consultation model which is deeply into that process that it understood the appreciated in terms of, “We will talk to you as and diVerences. There is a degree of improvement in the when the process goes on”, but businesses need communication that could be seen. certainty, an understanding of what will happen after key decisions are made. There is inevitably going to be this tension, but I think companies Q997 Mr Martyn Jones: In addition, do your would appreciate some understanding of what will members have problems when they are working with V happen after the decision has been made, what kind institutions within Wales relating to the di erences of issues are likely to change, if not the actual between establishments? I am particularly thinking changes themselves then where they need to be of north-east Wales where we have our own colleges looking, where they need to be considering. How just across the border. they need to plan what I call their business models, Mr Rosser: I think the appetite and enthusiasm with is often or not three or four years in advance in terms which certainly further education colleges work with of building regs they are buying plots of land and if business is quite varied. There are some very good building regs are going to be devolved, what is the colleges which are very business focused, and I think impact of that and they do not know. you have two of them in north Wales, Glyndwr and Deeside. Q1000 Albert Owen: One of the early successes of the Assembly was that it was more accessible for Q998 Mr Martyn Jones: One of which is now a particularly the voluntary sector and community. university. Do you feel that the Assembly has developed that Mr Rosser: That is not always replicated elsewhere approach with business or do you find Whitehall is within further education in Wales. I think higher easier to access than the Assembly itself? education institutions have made much more Mr Jenkins: I think it is fair to say that the intent is progress along that agenda of working with there and the systems are there, so the Government business. The relative under-funding of higher of Wales Act 2006 was amended in line with the education in Wales limits the degree to which some Business Partnership Forum that is meeting, but the of those institutions can invest in working with issues of business are in some ways diVerent from businesses and that is something we are quite keen to others and business is not just interested in economic see addressed. Shortly, I think Wales will be the only development, it has a bigger interest in planning one of the four administrations in the UK which is sometimes and skills as well. It would be worthwhile not oVering, for example, R&D innovation exploring what kind of additional requirements vouchers to companies to use with higher education businesses have to ensure that certainty and those institutions and that would be a shame. directions are given to market forces to enable companies to invest and I am not quite sure we are Q999 Mr Martyn Jones: You suggest the UK there yet. There is a will, but I am not quite sure we Government could do more to incorporate the needs are there yet. of Welsh businesses in its policy development. How do you think that is best achieved? Q1001 Mr David Jones: You have indicated that Mr Rosser: Clearly the Assembly Government has there is a need for greater strategic co-ordination of increased requirements now to consult with business cross-border service provision. Do you consider that under the new Government of Wales Act that was the establishment of formal cross-border structures passed recently and we look forward to seeing that would be a good idea and, if so, what sort of work well both in spirit as well as the letter of the structures would you recommend? regulation. It is working better in some areas than Mr Rosser: I think there is a role for that. It is not others. We are currently involved with the Welsh always visible to ourselves as a business Assembly Government at a very early stage in organisation, as a lobbyist, the extent to which that helping their thinking on a fees or contribution co-ordination goes on between the two policy towards post-19 education. That method of governments. We receive assurances from Ministers working is to be welcomed. It is quite resource and oYcials in the Welsh Assembly Government intensive both on us as well as the Assembly that it does take place, but it would be of interest to Government. We would like to see more of that. It us to see that happening more visibly and, indeed, does not apply in some areas and some regulations where appropriate, perhaps to participate in it. where there is much more “brief the business Some of the areas where that could be particularly community once we have taken the decision”. pertinent are around transport where there surely Again, we come back to the current Impact has to be a role, for example, in the Welsh Assembly Assessment Policy that the Assembly Government is Government and the government structures in the considering and highlight the importance of that to south-west of England to develop a case for understanding the consequences of diVerent policies improved rail links to the south-west corner of the on business and the costs and where they will fall. UK and, indeed, in energy policy where energy Processed: 23-12-2008 03:33:47 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG6
Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Ev 65
7 October 2008 Mr David Rosser and Mr Leighton Jenkins supply and its resilience in Wales is of critical interest M4 where, of course, a major relief road is proposed to business and policy is largely determined in for Newport, and the A494 in north Wales where Westminster except for energy generation under there will have to be, as it were, a process of certain limits, which is in Wales. That kind of negotiation between the Welsh Assembly strategic co-operation could work there. Government and the Department for Transport? Mr Rosser: I think the situation with the M4 south Q1002 Mr David Jones: Do you consider there are Wales is a little more self-contained in that the any forms of structure that could be put in place improvements which need to take place, I believe, which would make life easier? rest entirely within Wales, so it is for the Welsh Mr Rosser: I think a new structure has just been set Assembly Government to get its processes and up specifically to look at the proposed Severn systems operating as eYciently as possible. One Barrage, for example, which has the Welsh assumes that its commitment to that improvement Assembly Government, the south-west of England remains firm. I think it is much more of an issue in government structures and also central north-east Wales where the road needs improving Government. It is probably early to say just how across both sides of the border and it would seem eVective that is likely to be, but that strikes me as a silly to treat them as two separate applications and, model which could be developed. indeed, for one side of the road to be determined, delivered and then grind to a halt whilst planning Q1003 Mr David Jones: You mentioned the issue of procedures are then implemented the other side of transport and the importance of co-ordination of the border. cross-border policy and, in fact, you devote paragraphs 18–22 of your submission to the issue of Q1007 Mr David Jones: Of course, the single consent the planning system. You point out, as you have just regime which is provided for in the Planning Bill done, that planning is a vitally important issue, but actually envisages the completion of the whole you express some concern about the growing consent process in nine months, whereas is it not the disparity between the planning systems in England case that in Wales we will be left with lengthy and Wales. You comment: “Where England’s planning inquiries which could potentially take planning system will be faster and more responsive, several years while people are waiting for their road delivering early decisions on vital infrastructure improvements? projects, Wales’ planning system could remain Mr Rosser: Indeed. largely unchanged.” I take it that this is in the wake of the Planning Bill that is currently going through Q1008 David Davies: What do the CBI think about Parliament? a new Welsh Language Act? Mr Rosser: Certainly the CBI is a strong supporter Mr Rosser: Gosh! of the IPC (Infrastructure Planning Commission) which will apply in Wales for large energy Q1009 Chairman: This is wide-ranging! generation but not, for example, to large transport Mr Rosser: It is wide-ranging, you are right. It rather projects, which it will in England. If that provides a depends what a new Welsh Language Act might barrier to us developing our transport infrastructure contain. and improving it in an eYcient manner, that would be a great shame. We are also aware of other reviews Q1010 David Davies: If it contained provisions for going on in England to try to streamline the strongly encouraging private companies to adopt a planning system for smaller scale applications. I am Welsh language policy, which is what is suggested, not sure we detect a similar enthusiasm to do that would that be something the CBI supported? kind of wide-ranging review in Wales. Anything Mr Rosser: No, it would not. The CBI is entirely which makes it more diYcult and more cumbersome opposed to any form of compulsion on private (a) for companies to invest and (b) for the public sector companies to provide services to customers sector to invest in public infrastructure in Wales through the Welsh language. Those companies would not be helpful. which do, and there are several, currently report a very low take-up for those services provided in Q1004 Mr David Jones: Do you consider it a matter Welsh. We strongly believe that the eVorts and of regret that the single consent regime which will resources which might otherwise be put into policing apply to highway projects in England will not apply legislation would be far better applied to in Wales? encouraging provision on a voluntary basis where Mr Rosser: Yes, we do. companies see it as being appropriate, but more so to encourage the use of them by the people of Wales. Q1005 Mr David Jones: Do you know of any Passing legislation which requires a relatively small proposals in Wales for putting in place a similar number of companies probably, ex-utilities, current system to the single consent regime that will apply to utilities, to provide more services which most of transport projects in England? them already do something on and nobody is using Mr Rosser: We are not aware of any proposals. seems rather pointless. The CBI has oVered to work with the Welsh Assembly Government and with the Q1006 Mr David Jones: Would you agree with me Welsh Language Board to develop and promote a that this is going to be a particular problem in more comprehensive accreditation scheme for respect of important cross-border routes, such as the companies providing Welsh language services, some Processed: 23-12-2008 03:33:47 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG6
Ev 66 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
7 October 2008 Mr David Rosser and Mr Leighton Jenkins form of kite marking, if you wish. We would use our for powers which would transfer power to the Welsh best eVorts to work with our members, with other Assembly Government that would have an impact business organisations, to promote that across a on the business community. One, for example, that range of sectors and then to promote take-up of it by springs to mind is the transfer of building the public in Wales. regulations, which I think will be done as a Transfer of Functions Order rather than the LCO Measure Q1011 David Davies: Do the CBI think that were process, where there are very clear consequences for that Act to happen and were it to impose obligations companies, for the development industry in Wales, on private sector companies that would act as a but we have gained a very strong impression when Y barrier to businesses coming to Wales? we have come to Westminster to talk to o cials that Mr Rosser: I think that depends very much on the it is a done deal. sorts of companies that might be covered by any legislation. At the moment our understanding of the Q1014 Alun Michael: Another thing you say is: thinking within the Welsh Assembly Government is “Learning from each nation or region needs to be that it is likely to apply to companies predominantly better integrated into the policy making processes providing public services, which we take to mean that impact on Wales.” Are you, as the CBI in probably ex-public sector utilities. We think that Wales, drawing on experiences in other regions to would lead to a dumbing down in some areas of the try to inform that sort of debate? In future, will you services provided by those utilities that currently be drawing interesting comparisons to the attention provide good services and a levelling up in others, of Members of this Committee, for example, as well costs which would almost certainly be passed on to as to Assembly Members? the consumer in Wales, and we already have regional Mr Rosser: We would be happy to. The CBI in pricing in most utilities. Any language compulsion in Wales is a fully integrated part of the CBI nationally, legislation which went into other business sectors so we have regular discussions with colleagues in would have a much more dramatic impact, but we Scotland but also policy experts in our head oYce in are not certain that is the way WAG are thinking at England. We have been talking to the Welsh the moment. Assembly Government, for example, about innovation, research and development vouchers Q1012 Alun Michael: In your evidence and in your piloted in the West Midlands, delivered by the note in advance you have talked about the University of West Midlands in Bristol, just across importance of certainty, clarity and communication, the border, and now being rolled out in Scotland and things like that, and understanding your business Northern Ireland too. We very much welcome the concerns. Do you feel that oYcials at the Welsh opportunity to speak to this Committee about some Assembly have a good grasp of business issues and of those issues in the future. is the relationship right following the incorporation Mr Jenkins: A positive example of this type of of the WDA (Welsh Development Agency)? dialogue can be found in the DET that have set up Mr Rosser: Inevitably the grasp of business issues is the KPI panel, and that is a dialogue with business, going to be highly variable. One might expect, and almost a first blush, behind closed doors discussion one does see, that oYcials within the old Welsh about where we are going on certain key Development Agency who are now within consultations and we have found that incredibly Economic Development and Transport tend to have helpful because it enables businesses and policy- a better feel for the way businesses are thinking, makers free discussion on some critical issues that what the issues are and what concerns them, than will impact on businesses down the line and allows oYcials in maybe the Environment Division or them to be fed in at the earliest stages. That type of Culture Division dealing with Welsh language approach has been very fruitful. issues. That is perhaps not surprising. Quite a lot of Chairman: Can we move on now to higher our work is not actually talking to Economic education. Development within the Welsh Assembly Government, it is talking to other departments to try Q1015 Mark Williams: What are the consequences and get across some of those messages from the for employers of the diVerent funding policies business community. between England and Wales with regard to higher education? You have talked in your brief about the Q1013 Alun Michael: There are a couple of shortfall of 61 million that the Welsh universities are comments that you make in your evidence. You say: facing. What are the practical manifestations of that “Deferring to the expertise of the Welsh Assembly for you as employers? Government should not always be the assumed Mr Rosser: The CBI has most of the large higher course of action for Whitehall and Westminster education institutions in Wales within membership, when developing non-devolved policy proposals or but I will answer this question from the perspective considering requests for the transfer of legislative of our mainstream business members. To date, I do competence.” Have you come across specific not think business is seeing any consequences in examples or is this a sort of fear rather than a terms of the quality of graduates leaving Welsh concern? institutions. Speaking as somebody who sits as a Mr Rosser: It is certainly a fear. We very much governor on one of Wales’ HEIs, universities in encourage the UK Government to consult with Wales find it more diYcult increasingly to invest in companies in Wales when it is dealing with requests their estates, in their facilities, in the best teachers Processed: 23-12-2008 03:33:47 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG6
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7 October 2008 Mr David Rosser and Mr Leighton Jenkins and research teams. Whether that will have an Q1018 Mark Williams: Do you have a view on that impact on the choices of potential students as to the as an organisation—specifically on the lifting of institution they choose to go and whether they will the cap? gravitate more towards better funded institutions Mr Rosser: I am not sure we have developed a view outside Wales is something that is not certain but we on that, but certainly the consequences of the should all keep an eye on. Companies in Wales will diVerential policy are clear to us. One other thing work with the most appropriate higher education which could be usefully done, I think, is institution when it comes to research, for example. consideration given to moving higher education Some of the large companies are equally likely to from the Education Department within the Welsh work with English institutions as they are with Assembly Government and putting it into the institutions in Wales, but there is a much greater Economic Development Department if we are appetite to work with their local university. serious about making universities part of the infrastructure for developing our economy. Whilst universities are competing for funding alongside Q1016 Mark Williams: Have you detected a change schools they will always struggle somewhat, but in attitude between higher education institutions putting them within an Economic Development and those employers? budget might make us think more clearly about how Mr Rosser: There is an undoubted change in attitude we use that Economic Development budget. between the two groups wanting to work together. The agenda of business and HE working together is moving ahead at a pace. Medium-sized and smaller Q1019 Mark Williams: It would be a very interesting companies are more likely to turn to their local dialogue with the universities on that one! university rather than larger companies who might Mr Rosser: I think the universities would probably support that. trawl the expertise wherever it exists in the UK or, indeed, Europe. If the funding gap between HE in Wales and England continues and, indeed, Q1020 Albert Owen: You touched on research continues to widen, as it currently is, and Welsh briefly in your paper. Does the fact that Welsh universities are less able to invest in their research higher education institutions receive capability then one could see that being a problem proportionately less research funding than might be for Welsh businesses, but I am not certain that we expected for the relevant size of the sector have are there yet. Lastly, I think what are called third implications for employers in Wales? mission activities for universities, which generally Mr Rosser: I think the implications are probably include working with companies, working with around funding generally, which I have dealt with businesses, is something that they tend not to be core quite fully in the answer to the previous question. I funded for. At a time when universities are under am aware that Welsh institutions get a lower financial pressure, I think a number of them would percentage of Funding Council monies than one like to do more with companies in Wales than they might expect. I am not sure how those figures look feel currently financially able to do. It is more a once you strip out Oxford, Cambridge and London, question of companies in Wales to a certain extent the research intensive, whether we are then doing as not knowing what they are missing, there is more well as the next two universities or whether we still that could be done if the funding was better receive less funding than one might expect. Clearly managed. there is a chicken and egg situation here because funding awards by Funding Councils are done on a competitive basis and if you are less able to invest in Q1017 Mark Williams: Notwithstanding that, and your research capability because of the core under- you talk of good relationships between the funding then you are probably going to be in a institutions and business, in your brief you talk poorer position to compete for further Funding about the funding gap as being “Extremely diYcult. Council bids. We have to try and break this logjam We have got to rectify that now. It is going to be somehow and free that up. diYcult to rectify this at a later stage. Action must be taken immediately”. What action would you like to Q1021 Albert Owen: I understand what you are see to remedy the gap? saying about Oxford and Cambridge, but is there Mr Rosser: It is very easy to call for some more not a danger that any foreign investment might go money to be ploughed in. The consequence of the close to those areas and to bring it to Wales we need decision on tuition fees policy in Wales was to take to bring those research centres up to standard and some higher education budget and put it into the we need the funding. What I am suggesting is hands of students as opposed to into the hands of business is losing that. What do you think can be institutions, and one can understand the arguments done to close that gap? Do you think it is the quality for putting money into the hands of students but of the bids that are not there or do you think that the there are consequences which flow from that. The mechanism across the United Kingdom does not tuition fees policy is likely to be reviewed both in support Wales in the way that it should? England and Wales in the next year or two and it will Mr Rosser: I am not sure I am qualified to comment, be interesting to see what decisions come out of that. certainly on the quality of the bids that come out of I do not think we would want to see that reiterated Welsh universities, I am not yet familiar enough with in the next review. the mechanisms used by Funding Councils. Processed: 23-12-2008 03:33:47 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG6
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Switching that from a competitive bidding process Mr Rosser: The answer is we support further to some form of geographical allocation of research education colleges being given the power to oVer is a pretty fundamental switch. foundation degrees provided they can demonstrate that they have the quality systems in place that we want. Q1022 Albert Owen: Have you got any anecdotal evidence of companies looking at other parts of the United Kingdom because of the issues regarding Q1027 Alun Michael: Have you made any research and lack of funding? assessment of the value to business of two Mr Rosser: I think there are plenty of examples of comparative approaches, the Workforce companies in Wales who are choosing to partner Development Programme in operation in Wales and with universities outside of Wales because the the Train to Gain Programme in England? expertise that they are particularly interested in rests Mr Rosser: It is probably too early to tell. We have in those other universities. There are plenty of had mixed reports on Train to Gain from employers examples of that. Whether that is a consequence of in England. Some have found it very useful, some the way in which Research Councils allocate their have found some of the structures a bit too rigid for funding is something I am not at all clear on. what they as individual employers need in terms of the qualifications. The Workforce Development Programme Wales, as intended, seems to oVer a high Q1023 Chairman: Professor Mervyn Jones of degree of flexibility, but the funds put towards it are Bangor University is undertaking on behalf of the pretty small currently and we look to see with Welsh Assembly Government a review of higher interest how that develops. It strikes us in a number education, initially on finance but much more of areas in education policy in Wales that good broadly beyond that. Will you be giving evidence to initiatives that we would support sometimes fail to that review? be taken forward through general lack of funding, so Mr Rosser: We have not received a formal request to this is probably the latest in that line. do so yet, but I would be surprised if we were not asked to give evidence. Q1028 Alun Michael: Do you think more needs to be done to make sure that particularly for businesses Q1024 Alun Michael: We have a situation at the that are on either side of the border there is clarity moment where further education colleges in and parity of opportunity? England are able to validate their own foundation Mr Rosser: Certainly clarity of opportunity is degrees and that is not the case with FE colleges in important. The communication to companies of Wales. There seems to be a debate going on, one diVerent policy decisions and diVerent funding saying FE colleges in Wales should be given that regimes is critical so that companies can plan. Parity, power, the other alternative is saying, “We took a I think we would like to see the best applied across decision, don’t mess about with what has been both sides of the border irrespective of which side decided and which is now understood between the dreamt it up really. HE and FE sectors”. Does the CBI have a view on that? Mr Rosser: We had understood from the Skills Q1029 Mrs James: I would like to turn to the Sector Minister in WAG that FE colleges were going to be Skills Councils. You have already mentioned in your given the powers to accredit foundation degrees. earlier evidence the diVerence between provision and training, et cetera, between south-west England and south-west Wales. Do you think that the Sector Q1025 Alun Michael: I am referring to the fact that Y originally there was a decision that they would not Skills Councils are su ciently equipped to deal with and then there was a statement that they would and cross-border issues? some of the HE institutions were saying the Mr Jenkins: At the moment we understand the goalposts seem to be trotting around the pitch. challenge that Sector Skills Councils have to actually Mr Rosser: The CBI supports further education work with employers throughout Wales. There are colleges being given the power to award foundation geographical issues and there has been a huge degrees where they can demonstrate that they expansion in Sector Skills Councils in the last few operate suYcient quality standards. From our years and we have to recognise that. In terms of the perspective it is the quality of what is being oVered actual on the ground liaison with employers, we and provided rather than the category of the have found that it is not as high in Wales as it should institution doing the provision which is important. be compared to England. If Sector Skills Councils, The other point that is worth making here is that in which they have been, are given quite a key role in England the numbers of foundation degree places Wales Employment and Skills Board going forward, they need to have a marginal resource or they need funded have increased dramatically. We are pretty V sure that has not happened in Wales, so further to use the resource more e ectively in terms of education colleges provision presumably would just communicating with employers. The Wales reduce the provision by higher education. Employment and Skills Board is almost going to judge courses and plan courses at a strategic level and they need real-time information at employer Q1026 Alun Michael: Your answer really is it level of the kinds of skills needs and the Sector Skills depends? Councils, for good or bad, are that role in Wales. Processed: 23-12-2008 03:33:47 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG6
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7 October 2008 Mr David Rosser and Mr Leighton Jenkins
Q1030 Mrs James: You have touched a little bit qualifications base? Some of your individual upon the next part of my question which is the WAG employees could do 3 and 4”, whereas Train to Gain skills strategy states that the Councils will be asked has traditionally been pushing them into Level 2. In to articulate the demand for higher level skills. Can Wales we would not want to go down that line, we you see this working well in a cross-border situation? would want to be looking at the skills base of the Mr Jenkins: It is diYcult to see at the moment how individuals within companies and then choosing it will pan out. The setting up of the Wales what course is right for them rather than the other Employment and Skills Board is the first start of way round. Wales’ response, if you like, to Leitch and it is the 11 start of trying to plan things on a strategic level. At Q1033 Mark Pritchard: The CBI pride themselves the moment we would say that it is pause for thought on telling it like it is and we could not really have the in terms of whether the Skills Councils will be able to CBI before us without asking a more general deliver that strategic level input on HE, particularly question about the economy in Wales given the Level 3, Level 4 courses, because there is that lack of global financial crisis, and I do not know what has input at the moment at the local level, particularly in happened to the Stock Market this morning. Do you parts of Wales, so you do wonder what the impact of predict that employment will go up in Wales this the information feeding into the Wales Employment year or will it be unemployment that goes up in and Skills Board from the Sector Skills Councils Wales? will be. Mr Rosser: According to the radio in the taxi on the way here the banks are still suVering this morning on Q1031 Mrs James: I sense when I go to companies their share prices. It is rare that I meet a company in that I represent in my constituency a frustration at Wales at the moment that is not adjusting its the match between their levels of skills need and workforce. what is happening on the ground, the provision there. Do you sense that frustration within your Q1034 Mark Pritchard: What does “adjusting” organisation? mean? Mr Jenkins: I think there is that level of frustration. Mr Rosser: Downwards, I am afraid. There are exceptions and construction skills is a classic example where the Sector Skills Council is brilliant. There is that expectation that the Skills Q1035 Mark Pritchard: So laying oV people? Councils will be liaising with the companies that are Mr Rosser: Yes. Early retirement, generally by small in their appropriate Council and getting to know numbers, losing contractors. I think the Welsh them, getting to know their needs to be able to feed economy— into this intelligence. Not on a one-oV basis, but continually. I do not think we are there yet in terms Q1036 Mark Pritchard: Just so I am absolutely clear, of Wales having that rounded feel and depth. They because, as I said in my introduction, you like to tell may have had one or two contacts, but the depth and it like it is as an organisation, are you saying the quality of the engagement is not quite there yet for companies that are laying oV people, which is my employers. In terms of Alun Michael’s question in term, are doing it solely through early retirement? terms of HR advisers, the Workforce Development Mr Rosser: No, I am not saying that. Fund, there is going to be a 35% increase in HR advisers in the Wales Employment and Skills Board Q1037 Mark Pritchard: Therefore, they are laying planned over the next few months and that is a oV some people? critical bit, getting the quality of advisers to liaise Mr Rosser: Yes, they will be. with the Sector Skills Councils and employers. It does come back to the Workforce Development Q1038 Mark Pritchard: When you talk about small Fund having the proper advisory structure in place numbers, what do you mean? A job to an individual to liaise with employers as well. is a big number. Mr Rosser: I have been there myself, I fully Q1032 Mrs James: May I ask one more understand that point. A company of 500 employees supplementary. The other frustration that I am losing 40; a company of 500 losing 50/55; a legal hearing from companies that are operating in practice of 120 losing 10. Those sorts of numbers. Swansea East is there are lots of demands made of Too small to make too many headlines in the media them to ramp up and to put in good HR and good but, as you say, cumulatively it will have an impact training, but they really do not have the expertise. and for the individuals concerned it is a very, very They want more, but they are frustrated as to how diYcult time. I think the Welsh economy will suVer they can actually get it. as the UK economy is going to suVer over the next Mr Jenkins: You are exactly right, there is that 12–18 months. frustration. This is where HRD advisers could be the diVerence. In England you have seen that in Train to Grain, for example, they have been quite good but Q1039 Mark Pritchard: Given that we all want the there has been an issue around them actually just United Kingdom economy and the Welsh economy pushing Level 2 rather than saying, “What is your to do well, and I want to end on a positive note, what hope can you give them, given the fears out there in 11 Leitch review of skills: Prosperity for all in the global the community of people losing their jobs today, economy—world class skills, HM Treasury, 2006 next week or next month? Processed: 23-12-2008 03:33:47 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG6
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Mr Rosser: The Welsh economy is far better at the moment to stop what is happening, but there balanced than it would have been in previous is a lot they can do to not make it worse and to allow downturns. I would expect the Welsh economy to companies in Wales to participate in the recovery. suVer in proportion to the English regions outside the south-east and London, which may suVer worse, but equally to bounce back and to participate in any Q1040 Chairman: Can I thank you both for your recovery in proportion too. What we want to see at attendance this morning and the very wide-ranging this stage is what can Government do to ensure that evidence you have given us. It will be very helpful to is the case. I think the message of government at the us in our cross-border inquiry. If you feel there are moment is not to do anything to hamper that points which we have not covered then we would be recovery, so it is about retaining flexible markets, very pleased to receive a further memorandum. not taking any decisions which further increase costs Once again, could I thank you for the written on business, building regulations might be one, memorandum which you provided to the additional climate change targets might be another, Committee earlier. Thank you very much. for example. There is very little Government can do Mr Rosser: Thank you for the opportunity.
Witnesses: Mr Michael Fleming, Head of Employment Training and Competencies, and Mr Gary GriYths, Manager for Apprenticeships and Vocational Competencies, Airbus UK, gave evidence.
Q1041 Chairman: Good morning. For the record Mr Fleming: It is not something I would comment could you introduce yourselves, please? on. It is not something I have thought about. Mr Fleming: I am Michael Fleming. I am the Head of Employment Training and Competencies for Q1045 Mr Martyn Jones: You are aware of the Airbus UK. Mersey Dee Alliance? Mr GriYths: I am Gary GriYths. I am Manager for Mr GriYths: Yes. We have representation on the Apprenticeships and Vocational Competencies for Mersey Dee Alliance and it makes a lot of sense, Airbus UK. especially for the FE colleges and the universities to have a relationship. Just to expand upon that Q1042 Chairman: Could I place on record our slightly, we have also developed a good relationship thanks not only for you coming along but for the between our FE college in north Wales and the FE very warm welcome Airbus gave us when we visited college in the south-west of England. Our next step, you some months ago now. We are very conscious of just to confirm something that Mick was just saying, the fact that you are right on the border and that is we are also now working with a college in Bremen in the first question that I wish to ask of you. What Germany as well. We are looking at it from a impact has devolution had on Airbus as an employer completely diVerent landscape than perhaps very on the Wales/England border? localised within one area. Mr Fleming: Personally, we have had some excellent good practice within Wales on what we have been Q1046 Mr Martyn Jones: So it is not just cross- doing with local education, with our colleges and border England and Wales, it is Germany and universities. The impact for me is we are moving France possibly. away from Airbus Broughton, Airbus Filton, Mr GriYths: We do welcome the FE colleges and Airbus UK, and we are now a very large trans- universities working together to support businesses national organisation and we are trying to promote and ourselves especially. that to young people. The opportunities are far wider than just in Wales. That is really for you to Q1047 Mark Pritchard: How would you describe the understand the direction we are taking as Airbus. future of Airbus in the United Kingdom, and in We are always seen as two separate sites. My particular in Wales, given the competition from organisation now is responsible for a service to the other providers—this is a more general question UK, so obviously it is more and more diYcult to about Airbus—for example, Boeing? On the military work across border with a devolved administration. side we have had the stalling of the aircraft refuelling programme which obviously will have an impact Q1043 Mr Martyn Jones: Is SEMTA, your Sector over your companies globally, but also the internal Skills Council, well-equipped to deal with cross- diYculties through some of the delays on the border issues? delivery of civilian aircraft projects? How do you Mr Fleming: We have got an excellent working think that plays for Airbus as a company in the relationship with SEMTA and, yes, they are very medium to long-term against external competition well-equipped, I think mainly because we are within and internal, shall we say, diYculties? the aerial sector. Mr Fleming: Looking at Broughton specifically there is some very, very positive future strategic Q1044 Mr Martyn Jones: That is good to hear. Do direction for the plant. We went through quite a you think there is a need for additional cross-border reorganisation within the whole of Airbus. Within structures, such as the Mersey Dee Alliance, to that we were looking at creating sites with a prime improve co-ordination of cross-border education responsibility. From a Broughton point of view, provision? Broughton came out very, very high and it is now the Processed: 23-12-2008 03:33:47 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG6
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7 October 2008 Mr Michael Fleming and Mr Gary Griffiths prime site for wing assembly. With that, the site is cross-border co-operation? The second brief now creating opportunities for investment. We have question is, do you currently use training providers a West Factory, as you know, for the A380, we have from France coming into Wales to provide training? the East Factory for our single aisle aircraft but we Mr GriYths: In answer to the first part of the are currently building a North Factory for the A350 question, I have had meetings and some discussion composite wing. The future opportunities at with the universities from the M54 area. I forget Broughton are excellent. We are currently looking at what it is called now. further recruitment opportunities to bring more people on to the Broughton site. Mr GriYths: For this year we will target to be Q1050 Mark Pritchard: Telford technology corridor. making 473 aircraft for Airbus. We are about 50/50 Y with Boeing, with our main competitor, at this Mr Gri ths: We have looked at what they can do moment in time. The rate increases for next year are with regard to our composite development. We are well in excess of 500 and going even higher for the encouraging them to come into our composite following year. At the moment our build consortium once we get that established fully. The programmes are looking good for the foreseeable second part of the question was? future and in the short-term. What we need to understand is what will happen with regards to the Q1051 Mark Pritchard: France. credit crunch and the fuel costs, and that will have a Mr GriYths: France coming in. I am not aware that big impact on how companies, airlines especially in we use any training providers from France. It is the the future, will be buying their aircraft. At the opposite really, our Lean Learning Academy has moment our build programmes are excellent and are now been set up in Toulouse and Germany as well, growing year on year. We are increasing our so we are sending the other way around. workforce for this year by a further 100 between now and Christmas, and in the New Year and spring by Y about 120. Q1052 Nia Gri th: In the very detailed brief that you have given us you explain some of the diYculties dealing with cross-border with apprenticeship Q1048 Mark Pritchard: I do not know if you had issues. Obviously we know the Department for time to read the Leitch Report of last year about the Innovation, Universities and Skills on the English skills mix within the United Kingdom. There are side is implementing changes in that programme. quite a lot of skills shortages and engineering still, What would you like to see happen on the Welsh side whilst getting better, does perhaps have a bad press, of the border in respect of that programme in order it does not attract people into engineering, to make the programme better and facilitate things particularly women from some of the Russell Group for yourselves as well? universities, perhaps young undergraduates Mr GriYths: There needs to be clarity really. We studying physics, say, or whatever. Given the other need to understand what strategy WAG is going to competition that I have not mentioned thus far, have to respond to what happened in England. I am Brazilian manufacturers, and even Russia now make quite aware that as a devolved administration, from jets and are getting better and moving into medium an employers’ perspective they do not need to range aircraft, do you think given their wider pool of respond to something that has happened in another engineers in the medium to long-term it is going to administration but we need to have some clarity have an impact on you meeting your orders as a around the direction in which they plan to go so that company compared to those other companies we can develop our strategy to meet across the UK coming into the marketplace, having the skills our needs for apprenticeships and other training already in place, being able to deliver projects on activities as well. time and on budget? Mr GriYths: We are committed to growing our own engineers both through an apprenticeship but also Q1053 Nia GriYth: Can I perhaps follow that up. through our degree programme. We are bringing You mentioned also that simply on the ground you people in with degrees and putting them on a two do not get Careers Wales and Connexions doing year programme to support activities that we need joint events and things which in your case would be within engineering. I am fairly confident that within beneficial. Would you like to see much more Airbus we will be able to meet the changes in collaboration there? technology and our build programme with the Mr GriYths: Absolutely. engineers and plans and strategy we have got Mr Fleming: Definitely. developed. Q1054 Nia GriYth: Further to that, there still seems Q1049 Mark Pritchard: Two brief points. One, are to be this emphasis on sending academic children you aware of the technology corridor in Shropshire? down one route and there does not seem to be I am a Shropshire MP, a border MP, so I have got enough training perhaps of either schoolteachers or to mention that. There are some real engineering of careers advisers in the career paths that are open skills, as you are probably aware, at RAF Cosford through companies like yourselves. Would you see a and MoD Donnington and other places, and going need for possibly some joint training linked to into Wolverhampton where it has a history of employers’ needs and driven by employers’ needs to engineering and technological expertise. Is there any take the focus oV the individual finding their path for Processed: 23-12-2008 03:33:47 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG6
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7 October 2008 Mr Michael Fleming and Mr Gary Griffiths their future and trying to bridge that skills gap we Welsh-based university you get your fees paid. Do have been talking about? How could you see that you think that has an influence on whether they actually operating? would choose to come to you instead? Mr GriYths: We already do that. We bring teachers Mr GriYths: When young people are making a and careers advisers from both sides of the border to decision to come on to a higher apprenticeship they our site in Broughton and we identify the areas that have really thought through what it is they want out we need them to concentrate on. We said in the of it and, yes, the cost burden is something they do evidence that what they tend to do is work with the take into consideration, but they also look at the individuals, the students, as opposed to working other aspects of our apprenticeship and the fact that with employers and we are trying to rectify that by they get some vocational development, the fact they bringing them onto our site, working with them in are working with a large organisation and are able to some workshops and encouraging them to work in Germany and France as part of their understand what our needs are. apprenticeship as well. It is not purely a financial Mr Fleming: Just to add to that, any additional decision that they are making, they are making a support that can be given to an employer to increase decision that they want to come to our that awareness would be greatly received. It is an apprenticeship so they can work for an organisation initiative we do where we have work experience for such as ours and have the benefits of the overall teachers, but an employer can only do so much. We apprenticeship rather than just having a degree and really do need to educate teachers and schools about then having to do some additional work once they the opportunities in engineering. We are developing have completed their degree. I think that needs to be now the higher engineering apprenticeship more taken into consideration. which is looking at NVQ level or Level 4 foundation degree type activities. The people in the schools and Q1058 Nia GriYth: How eVectively does SEMTA, teachers are not aware of these types of your Sector Skills Council, engage with you and opportunities. educational providers? Is there any way you can see improvements could be made there? Mr GriYths: The experiences that we have with Q1055 Nia GriYth: Are you doing anything SEMTA are excellent. We have got an excellent specifically to get young women more interested in relationship with them. We sit on a number of their these careers? Y strategic groups. I sit on a four nations group Mr Gri ths: We are embarking with Middlewich at looking at issues that are aVecting the UK as a whole this moment in time, which is an English initiative as well. The work that we do with them in looking at trying to get women into engineering, and conjunction with our FE colleges and even HE next week we are working on a DVD to try and university as well is second to none. There is some encourage that. It is the influences, such as the development that needs to take place with regard to parents and teachers, we need to be working with. the activities that are happening from a lobbying We need to get them to understand that point of view. One of our chief execs sits on the apprenticeships are not just for low achievers, or SEMTA board so we have been able to influence it even medium achievers, but also for high achievers. from that direction as well. It is an excellent Our higher apprenticeship requirements are six relationship that is working well. GCSEs at grade B and above and two A levels at grade C and above. We are in competition with the decent universities for the same students. The Q1059 Albert Owen: A few years ago this Committee schools encourage young people to go to university undertook an inquiry into manufacturing in Wales as a means of getting a degree as opposed to coming and Airbus UK gave evidence to that. One of the through an apprenticeship such as ours. I do not concerns from Airbus was the lack of basic skills for think our apprenticeship is marketed through either 16 year olds and 18 year olds who are taking up the Welsh Assembly Government or UK apprenticeships. Is that still a problem? Is there a diVerential between Welsh students and English Westminster Government suYciently. I notice there students? Are basic skills still a big issue for you, was no mention of a higher apprenticeship in the numeracy and literacy, or has that improved? Are proposal that is going through on the you finding that you are getting a better quality of Apprenticeship Bill in Westminster. apprentices with basic skills when they come to you? Mr GriYths: There is still an issue with regards to Q1056 Nia GriYth: Presumably it is less of a how the GCSEs are preparing people with regard to financial burden if a student goes via you to get this their basic skills. I notice in the Skills That Work for type of degree than going straight to university. Wales they are aiming to address that by ensuring Mr GriYths: Absolutely. that basic skills are incorporated into GCSEs within Wales. It will be interesting to see how that moves forward in the future. We have not really done any Q1057 Nia GriYth: Therefore, is there any influence work on identifying necessarily where the students in the fact that funding is applied in a diVerent way are from before they join us to see whether it is better for students on the Welsh side of the border than in in England or Wales, but when we have people the way it is provided for students on the English side joining our apprenticeships we do find they come in of the border when they go to university? In other and we require from them at least four GCSEs and words, if you are a Welsh-based student going to a that must include English, maths and science, and Processed: 23-12-2008 03:33:47 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 415939 Unit: PAG6
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7 October 2008 Mr Michael Fleming and Mr Gary Griffiths we would therefore expect they are going to be on a Department but they have not actually announced Level 2 for their literacy and numeracy and we find as yet the direction they are going to be taking with that the majority of them are on Level 1 and we have regards to the qualification structure. even had some that are on entry Level 3. There is some remedial work that our FE colleges have to do Q1062 Mark Williams: What route would you like in order to get them in a position so they can develop them to take? through their apprenticeship and the academic Mr GriYths: I would like them to work together with rigour that is going to be required. It is still a England to ensure we have got something we can use problem. We have not done an assessment with the across both sites. I do not see the advantage of us new intake as yet, but certainly for last year it was going down an independent route as Scotland has 90% who were not at the level that we expected them decided. However, there are still some issues around to be. what is being proposed and I would like employers to be able to input into that debate, for instance if the proposal to get rid of NVQs needs to be reviewed Q1060 Albert Owen: With you being more of an and there needs to be a change in the policy around international group, talking about your European that across both England and Wales. partners, is there a diVerential between the UK and the rest of Europe that you have noticed? Q1063 Mark Williams: In a Welsh context, and I Mr GriYths: They do not have the same literacy and appreciate you have said you want some parity, how numeracy issues when they join the apprenticeship. much of an input do you have in that balance Mr Fleming: One point I would like to make is that between vocation versus academic outcomes in the as an organisation we are trying to use wider and NVQs? How much input do you have in the wider deployment of structure programmes. As specifics, or do you envisage having in the specifics Gary has said, we are now looking at the Level 2 of the balance between academic versus vocational? Y programme for our semi-skilled population. We Mr Gri ths: From an employers’ point of view I have adult apprenticeships. The reason we are using think that the vocational element of the programme these frameworks is so we can give people is something that we need to have and it needs to be assessment and support in these types of activities. supported academically through the academic We have on-site through Deeside College local programmes as well. We need to have a vocational initiatives so if somebody does have basic skill needs route that will measure people’s competence that we we have support mechanisms. At the moment, as an will be able to underpin with an academic employer, it is very, very diYcult to get individuals qualification as well. Our concern is that if they get to own up to those deficiencies, so we are trying to rid of the NVQs then we are not going to be able to use that and there will not be a consistent approach use the programmes to identify them. by all engineering employers. This is something that Mr GriYths: As per the Welsh Assembly initiative is a UK concern and SEMTA are lobbying hard on that anybody who is on a funded programme needs our behalf for that. to have a basic skills assessment, we incorporate that into our apprenticeships both for our adults and our Q1064 Mark Williams: Any indication when the new entry apprentices as well. That is how we Assembly are going to have an outcome on this? support the individuals who need it. Mr GriYths: I am not aware, no. Mr Fleming: No. Q1061 Mark Williams: Specifically in your brief you Chairman: Could I thank you on behalf of the Committee for your evidence, firstly for the very talk at length about the concerns you have over the interesting points you were making about qualification system and the change in the NVQ Y apprenticeships and the low level of understanding procedures. In response to Ms Gri ths’ question about what you are doing. The Select Committee on you asked for clarity. Are you getting clarity from Universities, Innovation and Skills are currently the Welsh Assembly Government on the issue of undertaking pre-legislative scrutiny on a draft NVQs? In Scotland they are quite clear on it. It Apprenticeship Bill. We undertake to pass on to that seems from your brief you are unclear as to which Committee the evidence you have given, but you route the Assembly is going to take. may also wish to submit some evidence yourself. We Mr GriYths: I think that is still the case. They have will arrange for you to be given the contact details not communicated to us the direction that they for that Committee. If you feel that there are some propose to take with regards to the qualification. We points that we have not covered we would be very work closely with the Assembly and we have very pleased to receive a supplementary memorandum good relationships with people within the from you. Thank you very much. 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Ev 74 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence Written evidence
Memorandum submitted by Aberystwyth University Aberystwyth University is grateful for the opportunity to submit evidence to the Welsh AVairs Select Committee’s inquiry into the provision of cross border services for Wales.
Background 1. Aberystwyth University has about 10,000 students, of whom about 7,500 are full time, and about 2,000 staV. Its turnover is around £100 million per annum. The University is one of the largest employers in mid- Wales, and is a major driver of both economic development and of cultural and social change in its region. 2. Recently the Institute of Grassland and Environmental Research (IGER), a Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council (BBSRC) sponsored research institute, has merged into the University, creating one of the largest centres for research in the Biosciences and the Environment in the UK. It will have a wide range of expertise in sustainable land use, mitigation of climate change, and food and water security.
Context 3. Universities in Wales operate with several distinct but complementary foci : local, regional, Wales- wide, UK-wide and international. The university’s mix of students is that about 30% of full-time students are from Wales, 60% from other parts of the UK and EU and 10% from elsewhere. Hence we are especially dependent on transborder flow, and it is essential that we are able to compete eVectively on a UK-wide basis for students. This is also the case for academic staV. We are also, of course, dependent on research funding distributed on a UK-wide basis (through GO-Science, the Technology Strategy Board and, in particular, the Research Councils) and our competitor set in Research and Enterprise extends well beyond the UK. 4. The sector as a whole is experiencing very rapid change, in part been driven by the increasing internationalisation of education. It has always been the case that disciplinary communities are international, and typically academics have a network of international collaborations. However, there is a rapidly increasing transnational flow of students—for example, the number of students studying in other countries doubled in the last quarter of the 20th century, and the trend has accelerated since. Numbers studying abroad have increased by 50% since 1999, and it is estimated that there are 2.8 million internationally mobile students. There are well over 300,000 students in higher education institutions in the UK from outside the UK; 14% of undergraduates and as many as 43% of research postgraduates are from overseas. 5. The UK is attractive to overseas students because of the quality of provision: consequently it is essential that quality and standards are maintained across the sector—HE UK is as strong as its weakest link in terms of quality assurance. Several countries are developing as competitors to the UK and US in particular (both have lost market share over recent years—though of an increasing transnational market). For example, China is becoming a serious international competitor, and Malaysia is becoming a hub for transnational education in the region. This incidentally gives Aberystwyth a particular opportunity—we have a long relationship with Malaysia and Aberystwyth is held in very high esteem. In 2000 the UK was third in the OECD on the percentage of young people graduating; now it is 10th. The UK spends under 3% of GDP on tertiary education; China spends 4%. India has similar ambitions, with more than a doubling of the participation rate planned over the next few years. 6. In parallel with these international trends, the fact that Higher Education in Wales is a devolved responsibility gives Wales the opportunity to develop policies which diVer from those in England and are geared to Welsh requirements. However, the boundary between England and Wales in Higher Education is, to say the least, porous, and consequently a nice balance must be struck between being part of the UK system and introducing some policies which are particularly geared to Wales.
Student Recruitment 7. Clearly one of the areas in which the variation in arrangements is most marked is in relation to deferred flexible fees. In recent years Aberystwyth has experienced a significant increase in applications to Welsh HEI from Welsh domiciled students. This would have been expected, and is in line with the Welsh Assembly Government’s policy in relation to increase the percentage of students from Wales studying within Wales. Aberystwyth warmly welcomes this increase. However over the last few years we have also experienced a significant downturn in applications from English domiciled students (between 2005 and 2007 there was a decrease of over 20%, with a similar increase in percentage terms in applications from Wales). Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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8. This downturn has aVected most institutions in Wales to some extent, depending in part on the mix of students from Wales and those from outside Wales. The reasons are likely to be complex: there may have been an issue of obtaining clear information about the fee regime and in particular bursary provision. At the same time other factors have been at play, in particular the increasing localisation which has occurred at the same time as the internationalisation noted above. 9. We are conscious of the way in which DIUS has encouraged and incentivised universities in England to engage with schools. It is important for Aberystwyth that we can engage with schools in England to remain competitive. It is already the case that our bursary provision is recognised as one of the best in the UK. At the same time we have to ensure that our provision remains attractive, and we spend significant eVort in portfolio renewal. 10. The eVort which Aberystwyth devotes to ensuring an attractive and competitive provision on the UK- wide scene is evinced by the fact that it has done extremely well in all surveys of student satisfaction (as, indeed, have HEIs in Wales generally). The results of the National Student Survey have been excellent, and Aberystwyth registered the highest score in the UK for student satisfaction in The Times Good University Guide 2008. 11. It is because it is so essential to remain competitive that we are concerned about the potential cumulative eVect of the so-called funding gap if corrective action is not taken soon. 12. The flow of students into Wales provides significant direct inflow to the economy in Wales, but is an outstanding means of demonstrating the best that Wales has to oVer. We agree with the statement made by Higher Education Wales in its submission to the Select Committee that there would be serious consequences to reputation and to the economy of Wales if a more insular approach to cross-border flow of students and staV develops.
Research 13. Aberystwyth University strongly support the maintenance of the dual support system for supporting research. This however does mean that one funding stream is devolved (the support channelled through the Funding Council), while the other, that through the Research Councils, is not. It is important that Welsh HEI are seen to compete on a UK-wide basis, and the assessment of research in future, by whatever mechanism is agreed, should be UK-wide. It is reasonable to use diVerent policy drivers which acknowledge the particular needs of Wales and in order to strengthen the research base in Wales, but only in the context of a single overarching framework. 14. It is often necessary to remind UK wide agencies that research funding is indeed UK-wide and that Wales should be given the opportunity to compete for a share of the available funding. An excellent example involving Aberystwyth is the funding from BBSRC for the new Institute of Biological, Environmental and Rural Sciences. 15. It is important that governments in Westminster and CardiV exchange information and we endorse the comments made in the HEW submission on the importance of eVective channels of communications between oYcials and politicians.
Policy Initiatives 16. We are concerned that a number of initiatives have been introduced in England without a counterpart being available in Wales. One of these is the matched fundraising scheme, and we hope that such a scheme can be introduced in Wales. 17. Of particular concern is the large scale review of HE in England announced by DIUS. This could have serious cross-border impact, and there is a serious danger that HEIs in Wales could simply “lose out” as a result of the wide range of initiatives that are likely to emerge. We have already mentioned the mechanisms for engagement with schools and colleges. 18. Perhaps the most serious implication would be as a result of any decision to change the fee regime in England. Should the fee cap be raised or even lifted completely, without a corresponding facility in Wales, HEI in Wales would face a period of sharply decreasing competitiveness, over and above that which might ensue from the funding gap if it persists. 19. HEI in Wales engage with employers both within Wales and across the border. We recognise the economic impact of universities such as Aberystwyth and the importance of engagement with local companies. However, the engagement must be with companies of all sizes, and that means establishing working relationships with companies outside Wales. 20. Direct knowledge transfer is an important aspect of our work, through consultancy work and research contracts, and also through the establishment of spin out companies, an area where Aberystwyth has been successful. The diYculty which we have found in relation to direct commercialisation is the attracting of second phase venture capital funding; we are certain that improved communications would have a significant eVect. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Conclusion
21. A vibrant and successful Higher Education sector is essential for the development of the “Knowledge Economy” in Wales. Aberystwyth is very much aware of its contribution to the local and regional economy, and we emphasise the importance of the spectrum leading from pure research, through applied and strategic research, to knowledge transfer and innovation. Our approach to research, scholarship and knowledge transfer is outward looking, acknowledging the requirements of the end-users of research, and gathering together interdisciplinary teams to respond to important current challenges and problems. 22. Wales needs an HE sector which competes eVectively within the UK. It is part of the UK Higher Education system and must develop mechanisms for combining this position with its contribution to the needs of Wales. Policy must ensure that it continues to attract students, staV and investment into Wales. Professor Noel Lloyd Vice Chancellor and Principal June 2008
Memorandum submitted by Airbus UK
Introduction
1. Airbus UK welcomes the opportunity to submit written evidence in respect of cross-border further and higher education services. Our evidence is provided in the context of an employer located in Wales near to the border with England with the consequence of having two sets of policies, agencies and funding models to consider when developing their learning and training strategies. 2. We will provide evidence from an employers perspective on the cross border provision of: (a) Foundation Modern Apprenticeships (b) Modern/Advanced Apprenticeships (c) Higher Apprenticeships (d) Degree programmes 3. Airbus UK has two manufacturing sites in the UK, one in the south west of England in Filton near Bristol and one in the north east of Wales in Broughton, Flintshire. Our submission will reference concerns from an Airbus UK perspective but concentrate on the issues faced by Airbus UK at Broughton. 4. The Broughton site has around 7,000 employees of whom around 60% live in Wales. At present, we have 577 apprentices with a further 100 apprentices planned to commence their employment in October. This will take us to a situation where close to 10% of our workforce is following an apprenticeship of some kind. We also have a significant number of employees working on degree courses. 5. The following is a breakdown of our current programmes: (a) 209 existing employee apprentices following a mixture of Foundation Modern Apprenticeships and Modern Apprenticeships. These apprenticeships are for the development of our existing workforce in relation to up-skilling, re-skilling or for personal development and formal recognition of current skills (b) 368 new entry apprentices follow Modern/Higher Apprenticeships in diVerent occupational areas dependent on our resource requirement (c) In addition, 61 individuals who have already completed their Higher Apprenticeship are now completing their Honours Degree in Aerospace Manufacture at Glyndwr University Wrexham. 6. Airbus Broughton uses two strategic partners/providers for all apprentice programmes, one for Further Education and Work Based Learning (Deeside College) and one for Higher Education (Glyndwr University Wrexham). The Department of Children Education Life Long Learning and Skills of the Welsh Assembly Government (DCELLS) supports the funding of these programmes. We also use Glyndwr University Wrexham for the delivery of our Aerospace Manufacture and Aeronautical Engineering degree programmes. 7. Airbus also uses other HE providers to support a number of diVerent learning programmes across the UK. 8. Airbus sits on a number of UK advisory groups whose remit covers cross border issues. These include the “Four Nations Group” within our Sector Skills Council (SEMTA) and the “Peoples Review” within the Society of British Aerospace Companies. We are also represented on the Mersey Dee Alliance. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Employer engagement with the system
9. Airbus would like to bring to the attention of the Committee the concerns we have about several policy changes that we consider could be a risk aVecting our future skills strategy. As a devolved administration Wales has developed its education, learning and skills strategy independently from England. Employers like Airbus that have a cross border business need to come to terms with the diVerences between the two national strategies.
10. Airbus UK has developed it’s own Skills Strategy largely influenced by Lord Leitch’s report “Prosperity for all in a global economy—world class skills”. This was a report developed for the UK and as a result we felt confident the agenda we set would not only deliver our requirement but also that of the UK as a whole.
11. Airbus supports the concept of a devolved system and recognises that there will some diVerences in policy between the diVerent administrations. We have been actively involved with a number of pilots to test some of the innovative initiatives being developed in Wales and as a result we have introduced the Welsh Baccalaureate to our craft apprenticeship with great success.
12. Both UK and Welsh Assembly Governments have now responded to Leitch and Airbus UK is confident we can continue to develop our strategy taking into consideration what each administration has set out. This however will not be straightforward.
13. There are some specific concerns around the funding diVerences, which our training providers need to observe whilst trying to apply an Airbus UK common strategy for apprenticeship programmes. Our providers are working in very diVerent landscapes in England and Wales and Airbus UK has to recognise this and adapt to these diVerences with the aim of providing equal opportunity for all regardless of location.
14. A good example of this has been the development of Adult Apprenticeships. Due to the Welsh Assembly Government policy for “all age apprenticeships” Broughton has developed a strong programme of both Foundation Modern Apprenticeships (Level 2) and Modern Apprenticeships (Level 3). In Wales there are no funding diVerences between an adult’s apprenticeship programmes or a young person’s apprenticeship programme and our providers are therefore able to treat them in the same way. However there has not been the same funding support at our Filton site, which causes our provider diYculty in meeting our requirement. Even with the changes proposed in the DIUS Report “World Class Apprenticeships: Unlocking Talent, Skills for all”, the proposed funding changes for adult apprentices is only two thirds that of an under 19 apprentice.
Brief Background
15. In addition to the funding anomalies employers also need to be aware of other fundamental changes that each administration is proposing such as: — Wales has one department covering Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills, whereas England now has two departments one for Children, Schools and Families and one for Innovation, Universities and Skills. — England has set out its strategy through a number of documents and for example will put a Draft Bill on apprenticeships before parliament this year. Within Wales, the Welsh Assembly has set out a distinctive Welsh agenda through “Skills that Work for Wales” that includes its plans for apprenticeships. — England is to introduce a new participation age for compulsory education to 18 years; this will provide an apprenticeship place for all suitably qualified young people aged 16–18. Whereas Wales is going down a diVerent route, which is based around entitlement of learners to education up to 18 years of age. The Welsh approach diVers in that they believe the best way to engage young people and employers is through encouragement and support rather than compulsion and the creation of artificial demand. — England has decided to put FE Colleges back in the hands of Local Authorities whereas Wales is retaining incorporation of FE Colleges. — England has developed the 14–19 Diploma and Wales has developed the Welsh Baccalaureate. Wales has said that it will be allowing the principle lines of Learning from the diplomas to be incorporated within the Welsh Bacc but as yet employers are not clear what this will look like. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Risks to the qualification system 16. There are proposals to the qualification system that are being driven through in England that Scotland has already stated they will not adopt and both Northern Ireland and Wales have yet to respond to. There are fears from employers that if there is not some common agreement we could end up with an extremely confusing and disparate qualification system. 17. For employers like Airbus who employ large numbers of apprentices, the changes being proposed are seen as a significant potential risk. The Qualification Curriculum Authority is proposing some fundamental changes that will need to be fully understood. Airbus is in discussion with DCELLS to ensure that we are fully briefed as to their position. The concerns we have are as follows: (a) NVQ as a type of qualification will cease to exist in the Qualification Credit Framework (QCF), as the focus will be on learning outcomes rather than competence and in the future the only qualification types that will be available will be Awards, Certificates and Diplomas no matter whether the qualification is currently a NVQ, a technical certificate or any other qualification. This suggests to us that a typical engineering/manufacturing apprentice will have a number of diplomas. It will not be clear if each diploma is an academic or a vocational qualification. (b) We believe that Ofqual has suggested that the “NVQ brand” would be allowed to stay in those sectors that wish it. This however is not the same as having a qualification on the QCF and there is a risk that the Assessment Strategy and Code of Practice will no longer be part of the qualification. Airbus is concerned that having the words NVQ will mean nothing if the qualification behind it is diVerent. This means that as a result of the QCF every NVQ and possibly technical certificate we currently have delivered will change thus causing Airbus and other employers more confusion and our providers a serious amount of work to come in line with the new qualifications. (c) Although our Sector Skills Council (SSC) will continue to put a version of the National Occupational Standard into the QCF our understanding is that assessment strategies will disappear and there is a real threat that SSC will no longer have a mechanism to ensure consistency of delivery and quality amongst awarding bodies and each awarding body will be able to produce their own version of a pseudo NVQ. (d) As NVQs are currently based on the National Occupational Standards, developed by employers with a clear assessment strategy and code of practice we feel this is a retrograde step. (e) These changes will create serious confusion amongst employers and concern that the NVQs that they know and respect may not be the same in the future. (f) With the QCF allowing diVerent awarding bodies to produce their own version of the same qualification we are also concerned that we will lose the clarity and transferability that NVQs currently have. As stated previously Scotland is retaining it’s SVQs in the same format as we know them, and our concern is that as yet, employers are not aware of the line the other devolved administrations will be taking.
Risks to Apprenticeships 18. The introduction of a National Apprenticeship Service (NAS) in England is one of the proposals that will have an immediate impact on employers who have cross border business. We believe that the NAS is being set up as part of a new agency, which will replace the LSC. The establishment of separate delivery agencies is not part of the policy agenda in Wales but we believe they will be looking at what support is needed for apprenticeship delivery in Wales as a part of delivering the Skills that Work for Wales strategy and action plan. As mentioned previously, to our knowledge WAG or DCELLS have not made a formal response to the changes being implemented by Westminster Government or DIUS. However Airbus considers the recent report on the developments in apprenticeships by the House of Lords Economic AVairs Committee as significant and we share some of their concerns as identified in their conclusions on Page 9 of their report:1 (a) That there is suYcient funding to meet the proposed expansion of apprenticeships. (b) The division of responsibility for apprenticeship between two government Departments is not satisfactory. (c) The new National Apprenticeship Service will have diYculty-engaging employers as it will not be the initial point of contact, this will be Train to Gain. (d) The relationship between the NAS and local authorities needs to be clarified. (e) Much more needs to be done to involve employers, especially SMEs, including providing all government funding directly to employers. (f) A strong commitment to minimum levels of oV-the-job-training is crucial.
1 House of Lords, Apprenticeships: a key route to skills, Fifth report of the Select Committtee on Economic AVairs, Session 2007–08, HL Paper 138, page 9 Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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(g) The continuing lack of progression from apprenticeship to higher levels of education must be addressed. (h) The removal of Technical Certificates in some sectors, there is a real risk of apprenticeships being perceived as being “dumbed down”. (i) Action is required to ensure that schools fully inform pupils about apprenticeships. 19. The following are also changes being proposed by DIUS that will be England only initiatives unless DCELLS follows their lead and implements the English strategies in their response: (a) A revised apprenticeship Blue Print will be introduced. (b) National Completion Certificate will be introduced. (c) Changes in the quality assurance against a revised blue print will be introduced. (d) Integration of apprenticeships into the rest of learning to enable easier movement between the new 14–19 diploma and apprenticeships. (e) Introduction of a new delivery system, customer facing National Apprenticeship Service. (f) Creation of a dedicated field force to support employers and apprentices. (g) Significant staYng at regional and sub regional level to manage relationships with other stakeholders in the system, including working in partnership with local authorities as they fulfil their obligations to young people. (h) A director of apprenticeships will be appointed. (i) There will be greater range and flexibility for apprenticeships. (j) All apprentice experience will be recognised as “an Apprenticeship”. (k) Direct incentives payments will be introduced. (l) Government will be responsive to demand that there will be additional funding for apprenticeships for those aged 25 or over. (m) There will be support for more employer ”ownership” of apprentices. (n) Public sector targets and duties will be introduced. (o) The Government will promote Apprenticeships in strategic projects such as the Olympics. (p) Dedicated information channels will be set up for Apprenticeships. (q) Investment will raise the profile of the Apprenticeship programme. (r) Clear progression routes to higher education will be built. (s) Positive action will be taken for under represented learners. (t) Pilots will be used to drive a “Critical Mass” of underrepresented learners. (u) “Super Mentors” will be appointed to support under represented learners through their experience. (v) Contractual wage regulations set by the LSC will be fully enforced pending the results of the investigation of apprenticeship wages by the low pay commission. 20. Until Airbus UK and other employers fully understand what the Welsh strategy for apprenticeships entails and how it will dovetail into the far reaching changes being proposed in England we will not be able to fully develop our skills strategy for the 21st century.
Student Recruitment and Retention 21. With regard to cross-border provision of public services for Wales, the following are key areas where our position as an employer located on the border of England and Wales aVects our recruitment and retention of apprentices: — Marketing. — Sifting and assessing of applicants. — Data for information.
Marketing 22. In attracting apprentices to apply to work for Airbus, we engage with the government-funded organisations Careers Wales and Connexions, as well as directly with local schools and colleges. This approach is eVective in communicating our positions to school-leavers, however teachers do not appear to be influenced by careers advisors and careers advisors do not appear to be as influential over more academic students. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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There is awareness of this issue amongst careers advisors, but an apparent lack of a coordinated approach, from oYces within England and Wales, and between Careers Wales and Connexions, means that we are not seeing much of a change in attitude. 23. Apprenticeships still appear to be considered by teachers and parents as an option for the less academically able student, and careers advisors are seen to be there to support the students who aren’t academically capable of going on to further/higher education. The marketing that we carry out with Careers Wales and Connexions therefore, often doesn’t reach the high-achievers we want. We feel that this is a UK issue, rather than an English/Welsh one, but one that could be better addressed with a common, coordinated Careers Wales and Connexions approach. 24. In contacting Careers Wales and Connexions to communicate our activities, we find we are repeating ourselves. Firstly because the two organisations have split themselves into regional oYces and it is diYcult to liaise with anyone centrally, and secondly because there seems to be little or no communication between the two organisations. 25. Any “grouped” careers fairs are grouped according to the national borders. This approach does not take into account the fact that as an employer located on the border we are looking for candidates from England and Wales. The approach of both Careers Wales and Connexions is very student-focussed rather than employer-focussed and means that advisors are concerned with finding roles for individuals rather than finding individuals for roles. We are often therefore, dealing with candidates who only just meet our minimum criteria. We feel that if careers advisors were more in tune with what organisations are looking for, they would push stronger candidates to apply for apprenticeships and to consider us as an alternative route to further qualifications to college or university. 26. Both Careers Wales and Connexions seem to focus their marketing directly to students with their websites and literature. We have found that to attract candidates to apply to us, it is their key influencers, ie teachers and parents we need to influence. It appears diYcult for Airbus to influence the thinking of these two sets of influencers, because of the lack of a central or coordinated approach. At the local oYces, there seems to be agreement, but inability to influence at the right level. 27. Independent of Careers Wales and Connexions, we often market to schools and colleges directly. We also hold Information Evenings when we invite students and their families or friends onto site to find out more about the company and the apprenticeships. More than 4,000 people attended in 2008. With such activities, the diVering school holidays from county to county, as well as country to country, can make our marketing, and the timing of the events themselves, harder to manage. Given that we are on the border between Cheshire and Flintshire in Broughton, and very close to South Wales in Bristol, we have a lot to take into account if we want to ensure that we reach as many as possible of the local students in England and Wales. 28. Skills that Work for Wales announced that there would be a review of Careers Wales and employers are waiting to see what exactly are the changes if any that will be proposed. Airbus would like to see a restructured Careers Wales to create a unitary organisation run by DCELLS with realistic targets that are outcome rather than activity driven. We are aware that WAG is currently working with Careers Wales to enhance Careers Wales online to create a vacancy matching service, which will enable employers to advertise vacancies and accept applications online. It would be useful to explore how this will link with the English vacancy matching service.
Sifting and assessment 29. We sift candidates according to whether they meet our minimum entry requirements for both the Craft and the Higher. These entry requirements are based entirely upon qualifications, since the apprenticeship courses demand a certain academic level. The new qualifications that are being introduced and the disparity across England and Wales mean that sifting candidates will become increasingly diYcult. For us as a business to understand the qualifications that applicants have and what that means in terms of capability is increasingly complicated.
Statistics 30. Generally over the last five years the new entry apprentice programme in Broughton has attracted approximately 60% of starters from Welsh schools and 40% from schools outside of Wales with the majority being from English schools. As you may be aware our apprenticeship programmes attract applicants from all over the world and within our current programme we have apprentices who have come from Singapore, Australia, America, France and Germany. 31. The apprentice intake for September 2008 in Broughton has 55% of apprentices from Welsh schools and the others are mostly from England with one apprentices coming from Scotland. Of those apprentices who come from England the vast majority come from Cheshire and Merseyside. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Conclusion 32. Airbus is delighted with the current arrangements for the delivery of our programmes through our partnership with Deeside College and Glyndwr University and has worked hard to develop robust partnership arrangements. In Broughton we accept that we are based in Wales and therefore will be subject to the skills strategy set out by the Welsh Assembly Government. However we do have concerns over the many changes in policy in both England and Wales that will potentially aVect qualifications, standards, frameworks and apprenticeships in the future. Communicating clearly these proposed policy changes to ensure clarity of understanding by employers will be vital to ensure that the skills agenda is met and that our workforce is capable and equipped for the needs of our future business such as new technology and our increasing build programme. September 2008
Memorandum submitted by the Alliance of Sector Skills Councils 1. This summary document accompanies written submissions from the Network of Sector Skills Councils. It does not seek to summarise individual submissions which stand on their own for discussion at the Committee. It seeks to provide a context for the Committee by highlighting the core contribution SSCs are increasingly making in this area. 2. The Sector Skills Councils have now established the Alliance of Sector Skills Councils to help them co-ordinate their voice and to support collaborative activities between the SSCs. The Alliance is continuing to support a forum in Wales and in each of the English regions, Scotland and Northern Ireland. 3. The SSCs understand that education and skills are devolved functions and recognise the need to work on a four nation basis. In fact, SSCs are the UK “glue” in the skills system. Large national companies wish to see consistency and transferability of skills across the UK, whilst smaller businesses need their specific needs met more locally. All demand quality and transparency in qualifications that are oVered in both HE and FE. SSCs are the crucial interface between employers and the education providers. 4. Recognising its responsibilities in Wales, the Alliance has recently responded to the “Skills That Work for Wales” consultation and look forward to working with the Welsh Assembly Government on its implementation. SSCs appreciated the recognition of SSCs in the document “A strong network of SSCs in Wales, working closely with employer bodies, will help to strengthen the employer voice in decisions in skills provision . . . SSCs will be the strategic interface between employers and the Assembly Government” (pg 12). The Alliance is committed to strengthening and supporting the role of its member SSCs in Wales to ensure this is a reality. 5. The Alliance has also recently responded to and provided evidence at the Welsh Assembly Government Enterprise and Learning Committee on the “Economic Contribution of Higher Education” inquiry. 6. In this inquiry, we have submitted evidence from 15 SSCs and the Chief Executive of Skills for Justice, Alan Woods along with three National and Specialist representatives will be meeting with the Committee, who will be able to answer questions on their specific sector submissions.
Themes 7. The essential characteristic of Sectors is that they have a distinct mix of employment and skills needs and this is reflected in the detailed work of each SSC to identify the specific relationship that their employers need with the education system and its cross border applicability. However, we believe there are common themes which run through the submissions which may serve as a basis for further discussion.
Understanding the Role of Sector Skills Councils 8. Sector Skills Councils have been formed by employers and have been licensed by Government to give employers a co-ordinated voice and a lead role in driving forward the skills base of the UK thereby improving productivity and performance across the economy. 9. The role of a Sector Skills Council is to engage with employers in identifying the current and future employment and skill needs of their businesses. Then, to identify the key occupations and to work with employers across the sector to define a framework of National Standards of Competence (National Occupational Standards) for each of those occupations. These standards then provide the basis for employers to identify, through their SSC, the qualifications and training that they need and will recognise as a route to employment. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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10. These standards provide a common currency across the UK and enable the SSCs to advise in each country, on the development of the national credit and qualifications frameworks, based on the co- ordinated views of employers. 11. Major research into employer needs has been carried out by each Sector Skills Council which has been pulled together in Sector Skills Agreements signed by SSCs and key stakeholders in each of the four nations. These are crucial documents that should drive the relationship between education providers and employers across the UK on a sector basis. 12. Sector Qualifications Strategies are being developed as a clear statement from a sector about the type of qualifications that are valued by employers. They are based around the national standards. Additionally, SSCs have responsibility for developing Apprenticeship frameworks which are based on these standards and qualifications.
Student Recruitment and Retention 13. Individuals need to be able to make informed choices about their education. A key issue is to understand their career prospects and vocational relevance of programmes. Traditionally supply has been led by student demand but this is now being tempered by the demands of employers and the job prospects of graduates. SSCs are the route for this employer influence on supply. 14. A key measure of the economic value of Higher and Further Education is the extent to which it provides a route to employment. The level of graduate recruitment varies by sector and needs to be understood. A key criticism is of oversupply and the non-employment relevance of programmes. 15. The key partnership between SSCs and HEIs is to ensure a smooth transition between education and employment. A consistent concern from employers is the vocational relevance of degrees. It is recognised that not all degree programmes are designed to be specifically vocational—however individuals need to be able to make an informed choice. We need to be able to answer the question “if I want to be a...then do I need a degree . . . and if so, which one?” In turn employers need to understand what skills are acquired by those with a particular degree. 16. Mapping degree programmes against the skills and knowledge articulated in the National Occupational Standards, produced by SSCs, can help this. 17. Many sectors welcome the inclusion of work experience in a vocational degree programme, again this is something to explore with individual SSCs. Flexible delivery such as Foundation Degrees are proving a popular way in many sectors to link a university education with work. In these sectors, SSCs welcome the opportunity to work with HEIs to shape the programme and content. Indeed, in the Alliance response to “Skills That Work For Wales” SSCs encouraged “more robust support” for the development of these foundation degree programmes in sectors where demand is evidenced. 18. Employers welcome bite-sized learning and flexible delivery that can support the development of their current employees in their career development. Up-skilling the current workforce is a key target for all sectors. To be able to step back into Higher Education to develop new skills as your career develops is important for individuals and their employers. Many sectors see this as the best investment for increasing HE numbers and raising skills levels. However, flexible delivery and the integration of distance learning and work-based project work are key components in these programmes. 19. Employers understand that graduates are often not the finished article. A few sectors have explored the concept of “graduate apprenticeships” to help employers to provide a structured development pathway for graduates that can help embed themselves in the organisation and enable the employer to make the best use of graduate skills. 20. There is a need to ensure lecturers and college staV are up to date in their understanding of industry. SSCs can assist with this. For example, a successful exchange programme operates in Northern Ireland with the involvement of SSCs and Universities and colleges, enabling university staV to step back into industry to help them keep up to date with the latest developments. At the same time they can undertake a problem solving project to assist the employer. 21. Traditionally, further education oVers more vocational relevance and flexibility of delivery, supporting work based training and apprenticeships. SSC influence over national qualification frameworks in each of the four countries and in the introduction of credits is a way of ensuring the vocational relevance of FE provision. SSC support the rationalisation of vocational qualifications in line with employer needs and would welcome equal influence on the content of qualification frameworks in Wales as they are now achieving in England. 22. SSCs understand the desire to expand numbers in both higher and further education. However, they would like to see this in the context of Life Long Learning and continuing professional development. They would encourage flexible delivery and support for access in later life, with the use of distance learning and innovative modes of learning and assessment. 23. There is some concern about completion rates. It is felt that the flexibility indicated in the previous paragraph would help to address the issue. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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24. The SSC Management and Leadership forum would like to see the principles of management introduced at an early stage throughout the education system, encouraging self management and team working, therefore growing and understanding the role of management both in the role of work and in personal life. 25. The submissions from individual SSCs highlight the importance of specialist provision and the need to ensure that this is accessible equally to students across the UK. For example; the lack of HE provision for Veterinary Science in Wales, means that potential students, who would be essential to provision of Veterinary service in Wales, need to study elsewhere in Wales. The disparity in tuition fees can adversely aVect these opportunities.
Student Finance 26. DiVerences in funding and priorities between nations, and in FE, between regions and sectors, impacts adversely on student choice and access. It can also disadvantage employers making certain sectors less attractive to students. For example; lower resourcing of FE in Wales, lower levels of funding for apprenticeships, and varying levels of tuition fees. 27. Funding needs to be more flexible and support available to lifelong learning and existing up-skilling of existing workforce through access to HE and FE throughout peoples working life is seen as crucial to addressing the training culture that is necessary for the UK to remain competitive in a global market and improving its skills base as recommended by Lord Leitch.
The Way in which Further and Higher Education Institutions Engage with Employers on Both Sides of the Border 28. Sector Skills Councils are the key to this relationship across the UK. In summary, SSCs oVer Higher and Further Education: — A coherent and researched evidence base on the future skill needs of each sector of the economy in Wales and the UK. — A link to the co-ordinated and oYcial voice of employers in a sector and help to shape a programme so that it meets the needs of employment. — A clear route back to employers to explain and promote an understanding of their programmes. — An opportunity for UK employment relevance for their programmes. — Informed advice on career routes and prospects to support informed choice by individual learners. 29. Further and higher education institutions engage with employers for four key purposes: 1. To supply learning programmes to employers and their workforces. 2. To ensure that the curricula oVered remains relevant to employment. 3. To recruit vocationally skilled professionals who are able to/desire to teach and pass on their skills. 4. To enable FE/HEI providers to access vocationally based CPD opportunities for their staV. 30. It is fair to say that relationships between SSCs and the supply-side are improving on both sides of the border. As a result of the scale of provision in Wales it is sometimes easier to make these relationships. These relationships have been smoothed by the Sector Skills Agreement dialogue which has involved key stakeholders such as HEFCW. In England, a recent protocol agreed between the Association of Colleges and the SSC network is resulting in the appointment of “skills champions within FE on a sector basis, which will help FE present itself to an SSC as a coherent network”.
Conclusion 31. In principle, employers see no reason why higher education provision in Wales should not serve the UK market and why English provision, particularly in specialist areas, should not be used to support the development in Wales. Quality is the key. Use of the sector specific National Occupation Standards as the basis for course design can ensure UK-wide industry applicability. SSC should provide advice on the employment market and priorities to ensure provision is relevant and to avoid over-supply. 32. The Sector Skills Agreements have opened the way for new relationships with individual institutions and educational stakeholders. In the submission there are many examples of good practice. 33. Employers work in a UK wide labour market and indeed increasingly in a global market. Links with SSCs can help ensure not just that the needs of employers in Wales can be met but that the skills are transferable across an industry on a UK basis. 34. Further education provision has the capacity to serve a more local focus and working within the National Credit and Qualification frameworks of Wales and England will ensure transferability across border as individuals develop their careers. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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35. Ultimately, employers need to understand qualifications and would welcome consistency, transferability and simplicity in the system. Equality of access and funding support should be the aim. 19 June 2008
APPENDIX 1
LIFELONG LEARNING UK Lifelong Learning UK (LLUK) is the independent employer led Sector Skills Council representing the lifelong learning sector. Our key goals are to: — reduce skills gaps and shortages; — improve productivity, business and public service performance; — increase opportunities to boost the skills and productivity of everyone in the sector’s workforce; and — improve learning supply. LLUK provides the strategic perspective for workforce planning and development for the sector across the four countries of the UK. We represent employers whose primary business is the delivery or support of learning for adults and young people outside of school. These include: — further education; — higher education; — work-based learning and private training providers; — libraries, archives and information services; — community learning and development—which further embraces: — community development; — working with parents; — youth work; — development education; — community based adult learning; — family learning; and — community education. We are the UK wide body with responsibility for defining and developing the Lifelong Learning sector’s occupational standards and the Sector’s Qualifications Strategy (SQS). These standards are used to inform the recruitment and professional development of our employers’ staV. LLUK works with and in support of the employers and stakeholders of the Lifelong Learning Sector in Wales, in addition to the comments that we make below we would also like to endorse and support the evidence provided by: — FFORWM—the equivalent body in Wales to the Association of Colleges in England. — Higher Education Wales (HEW)—a National Council of Universities UK representing Wales. — NIACE Dysgu Cymru. — National Training Federation (NTFW), Wales. — The Alliance of Sector Skills Councils (TASSC) for Wales. LLUK welcomes the opportunity to provide evidence to the Welsh AVairs Committee on the provision of cross border public services for Wales (and in accordance with our remit) our response focuses on the Workforce Development challenges that face employers in the Lifelong Learning Sector. As part of our employer engagement strategy in Wales LLUK works in partnership with FFORWM, HEW, NIACE and NTFW, all of whom are represented on the LLUK Wales Sub Committee to our main UK Council. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Devolution and Education
Context The Committee has already received independent evidence from FFORWM and Higher Education Wales, who have articulated detailed responses to the key evidence areas. LLUK supports the evidence provided by our partner organisations, and whilst not wishing to duplicate their respective positions LLUK wishes to set our response in the context of: — FE colleges in Wales are funded less generously than colleges in England.2 — Capital investment in FE in Wales falls well behind that of any other UK country.3 — However, lecturers in FE in Wales have achieved pay parity with schoolteachers and WAG has invested heavily in ensuring this takes place. — In England, there has been considerable increased investment in learners post-16. This funding has been directed towards improving facilities and equipment whereas in Wales the funding has gone on increasing the pay of lecturers. Thus learners in Wales attending colleges in England will have the benefit of improved facilities. — In HE, a very large proportion of the cost base for universities in Wales is determined by collective agreements made at a UK level—be they in relation to pay or pension costs. Universities in Wales therefore manage a paradoxical situation whereby their cost base is largely fixed at a UK level while their funding allocations are agreed at a Wales level. This particular challenge has occurred at a time when there is an increasing divergence across the UK in the relative levels of HE funding—with Scotland and England pursuing a policy of investing in HE while the Assembly Government has chosen to freeze the HE unit of resource in real terms since 2001–02. — This divergence in HE funding has led to the emergence of a growing investment gap between universities in Wales and those in Scotland and England. The size of the gap has grown to such an extent that it now represents 19% of total HE grant in Wales. An even larger investment gap exists between Wales and Scotland. A position of equal funding between the HE sectors in Wales and England in 2001–02 has rapidly deteriorated and developed into a substantial HE investment gap which totalled £61 million in 2005–06 (the latest available figures) according to HEFCW statistics.4 — The magnitude of the investment gap is set to grow further up to 2011 as a result of recent HE investment decisions in the three home nations. A Universities UK analysis of the HE settlements in Wales, Scotland and England as a result of CSR 2007 demonstrates that, for the third consecutive CSR period, the HE sector in Wales will receive the worst HE settlement in Britain. Given the nature of this recent HE settlement in Wales it is quite possible that the teaching unit of resource for universities in 2008–09 will be cut in real terms. At the same time, DIUS has guaranteed that the unit of resource in England will increase in real terms throughout the CSR period 2008–09 to 2010–11.
Post compulsory Education: Teacher Training Provision — Standards Verification UK (the subsidiary of the sector skills council Lifelong Learning UK) and its predecessor body FENTO have been responsible for the endorsement of initial teacher training qualifications (ITT) for Further Education (FE) teachers since the mandatory requirement for FE teachers to hold an approved teaching qualifications was introduced in England and Wales in 2001. — The regulatory and policy requirements endorsement scrutinised were the same for higher education institutions in England and in Wales providing ITT for FE teachers, and the FE Teachers’ Regulations 2002 adopted by the Welsh Assembly in 2002 referred to the same qualifications as the Regulations adopted in England the previous year. — Over time there has been evolution of the requirements to support policy in each country, but recently more significant divergence has taken place. In September 2007, new regulatory requirements in England have introduced a licence to practise for FE System (Further Education and publicly funded work based learning and Adult/Community) teachers, with a qualifications framework based on roles and revised England specific professional standards that now diVer significantly from the continuing requirements in Wales even with the planned adoption of the new professional standards for teachers, tutors and trainers in the lifelong learning sector in Wales, planned for September 2008.
2 Funding on post-16 learning per head of the population in Wales is around 5.45% compared with 5.85% England. ibid, p 102 3 Post-16 capital expenditure per head of the population in Wales is around £4.20 compared with £9.95 in England, £16.50 in Northern Ireland and £14 in Scotland. ibid, p 102 4 See: http://194.81.48.132/The Funding Gap 2005 06.pdf Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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— Teachers in the FE System in England must be registered with the Institute for Learning. The impact of this divergence is threefold: — For individual teachers who qualified in either country it raises the prospect that there may be additional requirements where once there were none, should a post be obtained with an employer across the border. — For HEIs in Wales who have traditionally worked with partner FE colleges on both sides of the border in making ITT provision, these arrangements have become more challenging as regulatory and other requirements have diverged. — For learning provider employers with operations in both England and Wales the determination of the qualifications required by their staV has become more complex. To illustrate the scale of these issues University of Wales, Newport have estimated that the proportion of teachers training in Wales who might then teach in England could be up to 40% for full time (pre service) cohorts in some years. As a result of the changes to the England regulations for teacher qualifications happening independently in England, UW Newport has had to relinquish the franchise arrangement that it held with Hereford College. Professor Charlie JeVery’s earlier written evidence to the Committee suggested “the UK lacks those forms of systematic intergovernmental coordination that exists in most other decentralised states to identify and pursue common objectives across jurisdictional boundaries and to build understandings of the legitimate scope of cross-border relationships that arise” (paragraph 8). In recognition of this position in early 2007 LLUK established a 4 Nations’ Strategic Summit which supplements its other UK forums and which invites the senior civil servants with responsibility for Education and Lifelong Learning Sector policy from each UK nation, to discuss the implications/impact that the devolution of Education and Lifelong Learning policy is having on the Lifelong Learning Sector workforce, prospective workforce, students and employers, across the UK. The Summit meets twice per annum. LLUK maintain that Sector Skills Councils, the UK Commission for Employment and Skills and The Alliance (TASSC) are an underplayed yet vital component of “systematic inter-government coordination . . . to pursue common objectives across jurisdictional boundaries and to build understanding of the legitimate scope of cross-border relationships that arise”.
1. Student Recruitment and Retention — The challenge facing student recruitment and retention in Wales must be set out in the context of Prosperity for all in the Global Economy—World Class Skills Leitch Review of Skills (Dec 2006) where Leitch stated that the UK must “raise its game” on skills at all levels if it is to sustain and improve its position in the global economy and get on track to achieve world class skills by 2020. — The target aspirations for a highly-educated, highly skilled and high employment Wales are not as demanding as those which Lord Leitch has suggested the UK must aspire to achieve. LLUK notes that since the publication of the Leitch review in 2006 the position of the UK against the BRIC economies has already shifted unfavourably. We fully support the need for the targets for student recruitment and retention in Wales to be reviewed in line with the recommendations made by Lord Leitch, by the new Employment and Skills Board in Wales as a matter of priority now that it is fully formed. — In order to achieve the challenges articulated by Leitch, Wales must have a successful post compulsory education and training system. The economic case for the Lifelong Learning Sector to be formally recognised as a priority sector is very well articulated. Welsh Assembly Government must give the sector due recognition in this regard. — Rationalisation of Vocational Qualifications—LLUK supports the need to rationalise and audit the number of vocational and vocationally related qualifications that are currently available for all sectors. The Leitch report has highlighted that the number of diVerent courses/qualifications available makes choosing the correct programme of study very diYcult. LLUK believes that the confusion caused by the overwhelming choices on oVer does not assist the process of student recruitment and retention. In line with the DCELLS statements about the role that Sector Skills Councils have in relation to Sector Skills Agreements and Sector Qualification Strategies, LLUK continue to seek assurance and support from DCELLS that LLUK will be given parity of esteem with all other SSC’s in terms of being the recognised lead body for our sector. — Where policy drivers require changes in practitioner knowledge, skills and behaviours or increased numbers of practitioners to deliver them (eg basic skills, economically important sectors, Learning Coach role, Welsh language, UK Vocational Reform Programme) we would welcome working with DCELLS to ensure that the practitioners are recruited and developed to service the needs of increasing student numbers. In particular where funding is specifically targeted at developing Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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training places (such as in the recent Annual Learning and Skills Assessment 06–09 where 40,000 places on the E Skills ITQ programme were prioritised) there should be a corresponding calculation to determine the uplift in the number of practitioners required to deliver the agenda. — In recent years the contribution that Libraries, Archives and Information Services (LAIS) make to the economic agenda by engaging (or recruiting) “learners which other forms of learning do not reach” has not been appropriately recognised within Lifelong Learning Sector policies. Despite lobbying, LLUK were disappointed to note that the LAIS role did not figure in the Webb Review recommendations. When Webb was questioned about this omission, he said, “We simply forgot”. In accordance with the Beecham review, the role LAIS play in the Lifelong Learning Sector needs to be articulated and recognised and valued, with connections made within this strategy and at a strategic level between ACL and LAIS agendas, and thereby DCELLS and CyMAL, Heritage division. LLUK advocate that library venues need to be considered as community/satellite learning centres and the premises, resources, and personnel need to be profiled and equipped as such to ensure that this valuable resource is no longer overlooked. On behalf of our Libraries Archives and Information Service employers LLUK continues to lobby DCELLS on this position. — The learning environment (the premises, the classroom facilities, the resources and the skills/ knowledge of the Teacher) are an important part of a prospective student and prospective teacher/ tutor/trainers criteria for selection of a programme of learning/place of work. LLUK is concerned that the increasing funding gap that has been independently evidenced by both FFORWM and HEW (which we have referenced briefly in our context statement above) will have an increasingly negative impact for Wales in terms of student recruitment/employer engagement and recruitment of high quality teachers/tutors/trainers, especially for those institutions close to the England border.
2. Student Finance (for students seeking to study to become Lifelong Learning Sector practitioners and for Lifelong Learning employers wishing to encourage staV development) — The recent Skills that Work for Wales—A skills and employment strategy consultation signalled the need to “develop a more eYcient learning network that will take us from success today to excellence tomorrow”. Section 1.4 also specified a compelling goal for a successful post compulsory education and training system, but it stopped short of talking about the skills that the “system” will require of its workforce. LLUK strongly urges that all departments across WAG need to recognise the post compulsory Lifelong Learning Sector as a priority sector that has a crucial role in supporting the development of skills in every other sector of the economy—and the initial training and continuous professional development of staV within the Lifelong Learning Sector needs to be funded as such. — LLUK has urged WAG to apply the principles it is commending to other employers “A more highly skilled workforce is a route for employers to achieve higher productivity”5 and recognise that investing in/financing the development of the World Class skills of the Lifelong Learning Sector Workforce is essential to the success of delivering the proposed Skills & Employment Strategy. — Higher Education—whilst LLUK recognises that there are major issues to be tackled in terms of basic and lower level skills in Wales—the case for higher level skills has been eVectively articulated by Lord Leitch. The Lifelong Learning Sector needs to be viewed as an entire system where the ultimate goal is ensuring progression to higher level skills. LLUK is concerned that the recent Skills and Employment strategy proposals do not eVectively recognise the important role of HE. — Young People—In LLUK’s response to Towards a National Youth Service Strategy for Wales we highlighted that a grant of £470,000 to support the training and development of youth workers and other professionals working with young people was inadequate when estimates that 3,669 members of staV are employed in the statutory youth service. If distributed evenly across the statutory workforce alone this equates to £128 per annum per person. Against the backdrop of the low numbers of fully qualified staV, and the expectations of degree level qualifications from 2010, we believe that this level of funding is inadequate, especially when we consider the additional size of the voluntary Youth Service. We suggested, with reflection on “Making the Connections: Delivering Better Services for Wales (WAG Oct 2004)” agenda, that the youth service division negotiates investment funding/preventative funding support from other departments within the Assembly Government (Health, Justice, Enterprise Innovations and Networks) to support the necessary investment in those Youth Service staV who deliver on supporting and complementary agendas. — In Wales, the way that students finance their learning is currently under review. The recent Skills and Employment strategy proposals have suggested the need to develop a financial contribution policy which outlines diVering levels of financial contributions from government/learners and employers. For this to be fully eVective the customer (the person who buys the learning) and the consumer (the learner/student) must be convinced of its value. The eVective implementation of a
5 Page 7 Paragraph 1.9 Footnote 8 Dearden, L, Reed, H and Van Reened, J (2000) Who Gains when Workers train? Training and Corporate Productivity in a Panel of British Industries, IFS Working Paper No 00/04. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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financial contributions policy is therefore reliant upon Sector Skills Councils being resourced suYciently in Wales to ensure that the emerging Sector Qualifications Strategies are able to fully reflect the demands of students and employers in Wales. — Further clarification on how the contributions policy will aVect Lifelong Learning Sector employers would be welcomed. The public sector double funding rule, which prevents public sector employers applying for government funding for learning alongside counterpart private sector employers needs to be reviewed and removed in Wales. The Public Sector in England is no longer disadvantaged by this funding restriction. — Learner Entitlement: LLUK proposes that learners/students in Wales, should be entitled to have access to appropriately qualified, professionally registered and supported (via CPD opportunities) teachers, tutors and trainers irrespective of which setting learning is delivered. This would enable learners in Wales to regain their parity of esteem with learners in England. The proposal for the financial contributions policy should consider this in terms of safeguarding value for money. — The development of a contributions policy will need to be supported by a corresponding workforce development programme for employers in the Lifelong Learning Sector as articulated within LLUK Sector Skills Agreement; Theme 5—Learner Centred/Demand Led provision.
3. Research Funding We defer our position to the cases already expressed by FFORWM and HEW.
4. The Way in which Further and Higher Education Institutions Engage with Employers on Both Sides of the Border.(Linked to the Role of Sector Skills Councils) Further and Higher Education institutions engage with employers for four key purposes: 1. To supply learning programmes to employers and their workforces. 2. To ensure that the curricula oVered remain relevant to employers. 3. To recruit vocationally skilled professionals who are able to/desire to teach and pass on their skills. 4. To enable the F/HEI or Work based Learning Provider to access vocationally based CPD opportunities for their staV. — LLUK welcomes the role identified by WAG for SSCs as the Employer voice of the skills system, within the recently published Skills that Work for Wales—a skills and employment strategy consultation. We wish to emphasis the pivotal role that the collective voice of the Sector Skills Councils have as an employer engagement mechanism which further supports and compliments the way in which F/HEIs engage with employers. — LLUK engages with our employers at both a Nation specific level and a UK level. In each of the four countries of the UK we operate a “Country Sub Committee” to our UK Wide “Council”. In addition to our UK Council, we have a series of UK Constituency panels that draw together constituency specific employers and stakeholders from each of the four nations (eg UK FE Constituency Panel; UK HE Constituency Panel, etc). Our Sector Skills Agreement has been developed to represent the needs of employers in each nation of the UK. We are now in the process of reviewing those skills issues which have been identified as being common across the UK and are starting to broker UK consortiums to enable us to deliver appropriate solutions in a cost eVective way. — We also work with our employers across the UK to develop UK wide National Occupational Standards, eg Youth Work. These standards underpin the emerging Sector Qualifications Strategies that SSC’s are charged with developing. In turn SSC Sector Qualification Strategies are assisting F/HEIs and awarding bodies develop and deliver fit for purpose qualifications that employers require for their workforces. — The UK Council of LLUK has identified the need for LLUK to take advantage of its unique position within the Alliance of SSCs to support the continuing development of dialogues between FEIs and HEIs, SSCs and Employers. — A key vehicle to support this could be the further and ongoing development of the LLUK Impact Review project which was an additional component of the LLUK SSA, undertaken in recognition of the unique position LLUK has within the Skills for Business network. As the SSC representing the workforce in FE, HE, work-based and community learning, as well as libraries and archives, LLUK employers are the providers involved in implementing SSA the priorities and actions identified by employers in all other sectors. These priorities and actions are captured in the SSAs developed by the other 24 SSCs over the period from 2005 to 2008. The Impact Review involved a range of activities. The primary task was an analysis of the key themes impacting on the lifelong learning workforce as presented in the wealth of SSA material produced by Spring 2007, and the Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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production of a report presenting the analysis. In evaluating the Impact Review, GHK reported that “The rationale for the Impact Review has been reinforced during the process (ie LLUK can clearly add value as a broker)”. — The new 14–19 Agendas in both England and Wales recognise the importance of vocational learning pathways based upon the needs of employers. Whilst LLUK recognises the necessary and statutory requirements of supporting teacher development in the statutory (schools) sector, we remain gravely concerned about the lack of funding that DCELLS is able to apportion toward equitable levels of initial and continuing professional development for teachers and support staV in the post compulsory sector. We recognise that this is an issue that also needs to be owned by the WAG cabinet in terms of the size of budget that is allocated to DCELLS. We consider this issue to be a major risk to the eVective delivery of the Skills & Employment Strategy for Wales. — A strong apprenticeship model is dependent upon strong Work Based Learning Delivery and Assessment and Verification. The LLUK Sector Skills Agreement has highlighted that qualified Assessor and Verifiers are generally in short supply, and gaps are more pronounced in some areas. An urgent recruitment campaign for Work Based Learning Assessors and Verifiers will be required to support any projected uplift in Modern Apprenticeship delivery within Wales, as will an audit of Teachers (both in terms of numbers and vocational updating (C&PD) requirements). —ToeVectively represent the Lifelong Learning Sector employer demand voice—LLUK must support the view that Foundation Degrees should become a supported qualification in Wales. Employers within our footprint see these qualifications as important progression awards on a path towards professional standing in some of the constituencies that we represent. LLUK therefore welcomes the Deputy Minister’s statements on the matter. — Vocational Qualification Learning Delivery—Sir Adrian Webb has urged us to address concerns that teachers in FE do not always have leading-edge or even current knowledge, particularly in vocational subjects. Vocational subjects must be taught by vocational specialists who undergo regular professional development and intense immersion in their specialism. This should lead to the establishment of a minimum entitlement to CPD for teaching and lecturing staV in schools and FEIs which should form not less than 10 days per year and which should include the opportunity for staV teaching on work related programmes to have a period of immersion in the appropriate work environment. LLUK supports the need to consult with the sector to develop and agree an accepted definition and framework for CPD across all settings. In contrast, as a result of the changes in regulations in Engalnd, FEIs in England are already required to ensure that their full time teaching staV engages in a minimum of 30 hours CPD per annum, on a sliding scale for part time staV down to a minimum of six hours per annum.
Conclusion — LLUK maintains that Sector Skills Councils, the UK Commission for Employment and Skills and The Alliance (TASSC) are an underplayed yet vital component of “systematic inter government coordination . . .to pursue common objectives across jurisdictional boundaries and to build understanding of the legitimate scope of cross-border relationships that arise”. — The Webb Review has highlighted the unhelpful nature of “jam jar funding” arrangements for stakeholders. LLUK would urge that the development of criteria for the proposed Sector Priorities’ fund should take this into account and consider providing infrastructure funding to enable SSCs to development long term capacity and capability.
The Community Learning and Development Footprint Community based adult learning involves all young people and adults and takes a range of contexts. It plays a major role in building social inclusion and supporting civil renewal. Those employed in this field may work face to face, and their roles include leading learning by teaching or tutoring, supporting learning through tutoring, providing guidance and facilitating learning. Community development work assumes that within any community there is a wealth of knowledge and experience which if used in creative ways results in high levels of participation and can be channelled into collective action to achieve the community’s desired goals. Community development workers work alongside people in communities in order to build relationships with key people and groups, facilitating the identification of common concerns and helping to build autonomous groups. By enabling people to act together community development workers help to foster social inclusion and equality. Community education encompasses the lifelong range of learning needs with a close integration in approach between work with adults, young people and children, and in providing educational support with community development. Its emphasis is upon the provision of community based learning and development support for individuals and groups based around identified needs and issues. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Development education can be defined as lifelong learning that: enables people to understand the links between their own lives and those of people throughout the world; increases understanding of the economic, social, political and environmental forces which shape our lives; develops the skills, attitudes and values which enable people to work together to take action to bring about change and take control of their own lives; works towards achieving a more just and a more sustainable world in which power and resources are more equitably shared. Family learning is essentially learning that takes place in a “cross-generational” context. The values, attitudes and culture that is learnt from our families can stay with us throughout our lives. Family learning schemes are often a second chance for parents, and grandparents to return to learning. Family learning encompasses family literacy, family numeracy, family IT, classes and activities for families, courses in parenting such as living with teenagers, playing with your child, helping children learn, dealing with your child’s school, and understanding about drugs. Parenting education is a collaborative educational approach that uses a combination of information, skills learning and the building of peer support and networks to enable parents to understand their children’s and their needs better and to feel more confident and competent in their parenting. It is an approach which is relevant to all those who come into contact with children and can play a valuable part in increasing the relationship and skills and understanding of us all.” The complexity of skills required by those working with parents in whatever form is very apparent not least when one considers the huge responsibility of carrying out work which will have a very major impact on peoples’ lives. Youth work oVers young people both planned and spontaneous programmes of personal and social education. As part of the wider 14–19 agenda youth work prepares young people for life. There is a wide range of practice to meet the needs of young people including arts and drama groups, counselling, detached or street based youth work, faith based groups, information and advice centres, outreach work with disadvantaged groups, project work on health issues, school; and college based provision, uniformed groups (Scouts & Guides, Cadet Units etc), and voluntary service groups. The essence of youth work is to enable the transition from childhood to independent adult life. Thus youth work provision is a complex network of providers from community groups through local authority provision to voluntary organisations.
APPENDIX 2
INSTITUTE OF MOTOR INDUSTRY (IMI-MOTOR)
Student Recruitment and Retention The sector struggles to attract the right calibre of people into the industry. Academic achievement has not been a particular strength for these individuals and from this low starting point it is obvious, from an employer’s perspective that providers struggle to raise the level of skills to those needed by the industry. This is not just a Welsh issue, but one that spans all four countries of the UK. Basic and employability skills will form an integral part of future qualifications to ensure that those that need this extra support can receive it as part of their ongoing training. We have made several recommendations in the Sector Qualifications Strategy (SQS) and SQS Action Plans that we believe will begin to remedy this situation. For Wales, particularly, an automotive aspect should feature in the Welsh Baccalaureate. We have also made recommendations about qualifications being structured around bite-sized chunks of learning, so qualifications won’t seem as daunting as they appear to be now. Lessons we’ve learnt from the Automotive Retail Management Standards (ARMS) development are of particular note. The IMI/Automotive Skills are developing a Skills Portal that is to be launched in early 2009 which will direct learners to appropriate job roles, qualifications and providers. The SQS focuses on the importance of ‘attraction and retention’. We have good relations with Careers Wales which is a great help. The IMI will work to maintain good relationships like this to ensure eVective access to information, advice and guidance for young people whether they live in England or Wales.
Student Finance Funding is one of the overriding concerns of employers within the sector. We need to ensure that funding policies align with the needs of the sector. On occasions when no provision is available in Wales, learners have diYculty in securing funding for the training/skills development they require when it takes place outside of Wales. The funding for Apprenticeships within Wales is on average £1,000 short of the England funding—for example Apprenticeship for Service and Maintenance is about £8400 and FMA for Wales is around £7500. There are also a few issues for employers that prevent them accessing provision. Policy in Wales dictates Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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that provision cannot be sought outside of Wales even if the cost of sending them to other locations in Wales is greater or that that provision does not exist. This also creates problems for dealers wanting to use vehicle manufacturer programmes if the manufacturer is not based in Wales. There is no Key/Core skill end test in Wales and our SQS calls for alignment of the components of the apprenticeship across the nations. So alignment between England and Wales would be beneficial from an end user point of view.
The Way in which Further and Higher Education Institutions Engage with Employers on Both Sides of the Border
Our engagement in this, to date, has not been as we would have wished. Through the development of the SQS Action Plan for Wales we hope to gain agreement from individual HEIs to work with us in the development of Foundation Degrees for the sector. We believe we need to focus on two areas for development; management and leadership and motorsport. The draft Action Plan (yet to be agreed with stakeholders) states: The HEFCW report, Study of the role of Foundation Degrees in Wales, identified the automotive sector as one that would benefit from the development of Foundation Degrees in Wales. The development of Foundation Degrees will help begin to extend the level and range of management and leadership skills within the sector and thus help change the culture of management and leadership and the level of skills so needed by the sector. In addition the development of a motorsport Foundation Degree will further help Wales maintain and develop its contribution to this sector. Working with HEIs and bringing them together with employers in Wales will be our first step to ensure fit-for-purpose Foundation Degrees for the sector. From this position we will then work with stakeholders to ensure that Foundation Degrees are solidly based on NOS and that these reflect the needs of the sector. Employer engagement is probably the most important issue for the sector. The key point is that employers won’t want their ability to work with providers or their ability to recruit young people to the sector hampered by cross-border issues. Also, whether Wales has its own policies or the same policy across England and Wales. What is most important is that the system is made easy for the “end user” to understand.
APPENDIX 3
GOSKILLS The paper covers the FE cross-border issues between Wales and England from the viewpoint of GoSkills.
Summary
Whilst in certain respects it is easier in Wales for us as an SSC to conduct business owing to clearer roles and easier communications, in general the supply side is not as developed as it is in England. As many leading employers conduct their own training in house, the lack of consistent public funding for skills in the sector disadvantages it in relation to more favoured sectors.
Background
GoSkills is the Sector Skills Council for Passenger Transport. The footprint comprises airlines, air passenger transport on the ground, bus, coach, community transport, driver training, inland water passenger transport, light rail, metro and trams, rail operations, rail engineering, taxi, chauVeur and private hire and transport planning. It was licensed in October 2004. It represents its employers on a voluntary basis but does oVer membership. It has a Sector Skills Agreement in Wales and a Sector Qualification Strategy in place. The sector groups into three major business models; those businesses which deliver passenger transport services to the end customer, those that engineer the equipment and infrastructure (bus, coach and rail) and those that provide support services (driving instruction and transport planning). These activities are spread throughout Wales, Scotland, England and Northern Ireland. The majority of the sector’s workforce are drivers and customer-facing staV. It is a commercialised though highly regulated sector. It includes a large number of self-employed persons (taxi, private hire and driving instruction). Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Issues in Relation to Further Education Many of the larger operators have good in house training arrangements. Partly this is owing to the shortage of appropriate public provision. In turn this means that the ability to attract pubic funding for employer training requirements is not as high as in some sectors. Modern Apprenticeships are not well used. This is partly a function of lack of publicly-funded provision. There are currently modern apprenticeship frameworks available in five occupational areas in Wales: Transport Engineering and Maintenance (TEM)—covering engineering for the bus and coach industries; also appropriate for some community transport operations. TEM is available at Modern Apprenticeship and Advanced Modern Apprenticeship level. Road Passenger Transport (RPT)—covering driving in the bus and coach industries; also appropriate for some community transport operations. This apprenticeship is available only at Modern Apprenticeship level. Rail Transport Operations (RTO)—covering operational roles such as driving and customer services for the rail industry; also appropriate for light rail. This framework is available only at Modern Apprenticeship level. Rail Transport Engineering (RTE)—covering engineering for the rail industry. This framework is available at Modern Apprenticeship and Advanced Modern Apprenticeship level. Aviation—covering operational roles such as passenger handling for the airport and ground handling industries. This framework is available at Modern Apprenticeship and Advanced Modern Apprenticeship level. There are fewer frameworks available in Wales than in England. Most of the National Occupational Standards and qualifications for the sector have been developed to support job roles at operative levels such as drivers. Although there are some qualifications for roles at supervisory level, there is little available for higher level job roles. Employers throughout the sector have identified management skills as an area of need.
Key message The lack of consistency of funding oVered—Wales has Step up to Level 2 which oVers a similar arrangement to Train to Gain in England with regard to support for NVQ level 2 but, it would seem that each employer initiative has to be bid for separately, the majority of employers would be asked for a contribution, but it seems this is not universal in all cases and contribution levels where required appear to vary.
Key message There is a drastic shortage of providers even compared with England, where it is less than ideal—we have oVered to bring in providers to develop colleges, other providers etc, yet we still meet hurdles that suppliers must be Welsh. However, with the new taxi project (see below) we seem to have been given a little lee-way, in that our oVer to bring in specialist providers to train assessors etc has been provisionally accepted. With regard to the above project, we were initially told of all the diVerent funding areas available for a taxi—Phv development across Wales. We have established partnerships with local authorities and other stakeholders, agreed a pilot programme and then told we have to prove a case for any funding.
Issues in Relation to Higher Level Skills The sector’s demands for higher level skills are conditioned by its structure and market. For those delivering passenger transport services the general skills of business management are required, often blended with operational knowledge. In Engineering, there are both specialist needs in areas such as railway signalling and track engineering and generalist in electrical, mechanical and electronic. There is a recognised route via a second degree for those entering the Transport Planning profession. The demands are fulfilled via general higher level programmes in business management, engineering degrees with specialist input as required and dedicated transport planning qualifications. Within the current English framework, our employers are exploring the benefits of Foundation Degrees as they oVer work- based experience as a key component of the qualification. This theme has value in Wales too. There are links with Higher Education Institutes on the transport agenda in general specifically the University of Glamorgan. There is limited higher education provision available for our sector. The Wales Transport Research Centre is based in the University of Glamorgan in Pontypridd. The Centre is currently writing the Wales Strategy for the Freight Transport Association, but the majority of its work concerns passenger transport policy. The University is the accredited centre for Wales for the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Transport. The centre has also recently established a course for managers in the transport sector. This one- year part-time course provides the underpinning knowledge for Membership of the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport (MCILT). Membership also requires at least four years’ work experience. The course has a capacity for 15 students, and currently eight are enrolled. The Centre provides input to degree courses in Transport plus another discipline. The two main courses are Transport and Travel and Tourism, and Transport and Business Studies. Many employers utilise in-house programmes for development of staV to senior/middle management positions without the use of higher education facilities.
Key Message Virtually no students undertook the identified transport HE courses in North or Mid Wales (one student recorded in each of the past two years).
Future Plans We have a Welsh Sector Skills Agreement (SSA) in place which should assist in improving the supply of skills in Wales. The main issues uncovered by our SSA research in Wales are: Economic predictions suggest that the Welsh passenger transport sector will expand considerably over the next five years, its rate of growth being the greatest of any of the UK nations. Historical records show considerable short term variations, however, due to the relatively small size of the industry. There are concerns in some industries that comparatively high wages, for example in the driving instruction industry, are encouraging people into the profession despite the unsocial hours, and if wage diVerentials are reduced there may be a large shift of people leaving for other jobs with more conventional hours.
Key Message There is a need to improve basic IT skills in Wales. Welsh sector employers face higher levels of skill gaps than the sectors across the UK and for the Welsh economy. The Welsh passenger transport sector faces many of the same skills issues as the whole UK, however there is a specific need for training in basic IT skills. Looking into the future, Welsh companies saw emerging needs in driving skills (13% of those surveyed), but also driving instruction skills (12% of companies). Basic IT skills (7% of companies) remains a priority, as well as a need for people able to service passenger transport vehicles (vehicle engineering skills were reported by 6% of companies). As an indication of the growing demand for basic IT skills, half of all companies would be happy with their employees having less than intermediate IT skills, but this drops to 37% when asked to look three years into the future.
Key Message Employees need to become engaged in training, with a particular focus in enabling those with no qualifications or NVQ level 1 to progress to NVQ level 2. The proportion of the Welsh workforce without any qualifications is higher than the UK average, although the proportion of the workforce with NVQ level 2 or less is close to the average for the UK. Engagement with training is lower in Wales than other parts of the UK, and there are also major diYculties in locating local training provision. Anecdotal evidence gives examples of companies using English providers as far away as Southampton or London to meet their needs. Funding for training is also an important issue for the nation, matching the diYculties faced UK wide. Our Sector Skills Agreement (SSA) Action Plan is currently being implemented, overseen by our Welsh Employer Group. As part of our SSA, we have an agreement in place with Higher Education Funding Council for Wales (HEFCW) relating to mutual support, the sharing of LMI and use of joint communication channels. One of our SSA projects involved the use of drama through a Higher Education Institution to raise customer service issues with managers and supervisors. This has been well received by two businesses active in Wales—Arriva and CardiV City Bus. However, we have had to use the London-based Central School of Speech and Drama. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Other Activities All Welsh bus drivers have been trained in disability awareness, in large part through funding support won by GoSkills. This has been a relatively easy win in Wales owing to the relatively greater importance of the bus in Wales as a passenger transport medium. The position with regard to this training is not as good in England. We are commencing work with local licensing authorities to improve the image and self-esteem of taxi and private hire drivers through the achievement of recognised national qualifications and hence improve service quality. It has been easier to implement this latter reform in England owing to the higher level of skills funding for businesses but the work is now beginning to take oV in Wales too.
APPENDIX 4
FINANCIAL SERVICES SKILLS COUNCIL (FSSC)
The Ways in which Further and Higher Education Providers Work with Employers on Both Sides of the Border The financial services sector engages widely with private training providers. To reflect this, we, the Financial Services Skills Council, have drawn from the experience of a private training provider with LSC and other publicly funded contracts and the experience of a further education college. Unfortunately, we were not able to obtain specific information from any HEIs to include within this report. Gloucestershire College reports diYculties in obtaining funding for students coming from Wales (and indeed from LSC regions other than Gloucestershire). The diYculty appears to stem from the need to ask permission for the funding to come with the student, a process that is reported to be diYcult and lengthy. The college has strong links with employers, working with around 1000 employers annually, on a regular basis. The college has an account management structure for employer engagement and, depending on its nature; provision is delivered either through individual schools within the college or by business units. Since introducing the account management structure, the college has increased the number of employers it works with by 30%. Its employer engagement work is worth approximately £1 million in fees and £3 million in total and includes: apprenticeship programmes, Train to Gain, FE programmes, HE programmes, bespoke and full cost programmes. Acorn Learning and Development, a private provider in receipt of public funding, has a well-established programme of employer engagement activities on both sides of the border. In Wales, its activities include: — Liaison with SSCs to ensure they are fully informed of the funded/commercial training programmes provided to their sectors, attendance at SSC events. — Review of local publications to understand business activities in Wales eg, Western Mail/Business magazines. — Information on training programmes detailed on websites—Acorn website, Careers Wales “Choices” website (this links to LearnDirect), Flexible Business Support Website (Welsh Assembly), Business Eye. — Attendance at regular jobs fairs held locally for employers and individuals, eg, Jobs Fairs, Ideal Business Show. — Involvement in local initiatives supported by the Welsh Assembly and Business bodies, eg, “Lead On” Leadership Conference, DYSG Conferences, CBI Wales lunches/breakfasts/conferences, IoD events, National Training Awards, Chamber of Commerce events. — Use of employer arrangements in existence with Acorn Group Recruitment clients. — General marketing activities eg, emails/press releases/sponsorship of sporting events/hospitality/ local sales activities/mail shots. — Collaborative initiatives with other delivery partners eg, Local colleges/HE institutes/JCP. Acorn does not actively market its services to employers in England, as its strategic focus is working with employers in Wales. However, the following activities are carried out: — Existing employers in Wales with employees in England—provision of training and development solutions is mostly commercial training only; where funding is required Acorn would contact a training provider in England to partner to access funding or collaborate on delivery. — Acorn Group Recruitment clients—where a client of the Group requires training and development solutions in England, Acorn reviews the opportunity and provides costs on commercial delivery, liaises with SSCs/LSC/RDA where necessary. Where funding is required Acorn would contact training providers in England to support/collaborate. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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For employers with their own LSC contract, or a training provider not contracted to provide funded services in Wales, Acorn supports cross-border delivery by: — Sub-contracting some of its WAG WBL contract to the organisation. — Becoming the delivery arm of that organisation in Wales. — Becoming a partner for partial delivery of the programme in Wales. Acorn’s experience suggests that a collaborative or partnership approach to cross-border delivery facilitated professionally between delivery partners, whether private providers, further education colleges or higher education institutions, is the most successful route to ensuring that employers’ needs are fully met. Acorn has found that in practice, there is a lack of awareness and understanding of how such partnerships can work. Other providers, and indeed employers, with national LSC contracts have very little information about how support can be implemented cross-border. Acorn would welcome such information being provided more widely and being more accessible to all.
APPENDIX 5
CREATIVE & CULTURAL SKILLS COUNCIL Creative & Cultural Skills wishes there to be a parity of approach and access to funding and excellence in terms of skills development and training in both England and Wales, in particular supporting talented young Welsh people. One of the priorities for the Creative & Cultural Skills Wales Employers Group is Creative Apprenticeships. The LSC in England supports Creative Apprenticeships and we hope that this qualification receives the same support in Wales. In Wales, all-age apprenticeships are welcomed; the focus in England is still on young people. The National Skills Academy (NSA) in England, that aims to reduce skills gaps and shortages in backstage and oV-stage skills, has now been approved by UK government. Creative Apprenticeships will form part of its core oVer. The same skills gaps and shortages in Wales exist and a Centre for Excellence is proposed in Wales linked to the Wales Millennium Centre. The ambition is for it to be part of the NSA network with education and employer partnerships throughout Wales. Through Creative Apprenticeships and the Centre for Excellence, Creative & Cultural Skills wishes to identify and develop Welsh talent and also attract talent into Wales on UK-wide recognised standards. Support is needed for these programmes so that people in Wales are not disadvantaged. They must have the equality of opportunity and the same clear progression routes in and into industry.
APPENDIX 6
SUMMIT SKILLS COUNCIL FOR BUILDING SERVICES ENGINEERING
Work Based Learning Pathways/14–19 Diploma We have a peripatetic workforce and they need a clear simplified set of qualifications that they can use UK wide, there are so many diVerences in the UK now it’s quite diYcult for them to understand the complexities of it. Also, the functional math’s elements were developed with employers in England to ensure that the candidates have the requisite skills to be able to complete a Level 3 qualification. Level 3 is the minimum standard for a plumber, electrician and HVCA engineer throughout the UK. Functional math’s has not been adopted here in Wales; there was no consultation with us from the qualifications team in the Assembly.
Cross Border Employers T2G in England has seen a significant uptake of training in our sector, it’s not perfect but then nothing is. The workforce development fund is one of the biggest secrets around, employers don’t know about it. No advertising from the WAG on it at all. The ones that do know about it think the process is complicated and not worth the hassle. Training providers who work cross border constantly ask for T2G in Wales. The system is well marketed, simple to access and has engaged employers; this is not true for workforce development fund.
Employers Using FE/HE Colleges in England In our sector this has been going on for years due to the lack of available provision. No level 3 refrigeration courses means Bath College has been the only provider for Wales. N Wales has lost out completely. We have a shortage of consultants at level 4, most of our students go to England for training. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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APPENDIX 7
SKILLSET
Introduction
Skillset is the Sector Skills Council for the Creative Media industries. Jointly funded by industry and government, our job is to make sure that the UK creative media industries have the right people, with the right skills, in the right place, at the right time, so that our industries remain competitive. We are responsible for the following sectors: Publishing, Television, Film, Radio, Animation, Interactive Media, Computer Games, Photo Imaging, Facilities and Publishing. We have oYces in England (with representation in the nine regions), Wales (Skillset Cymru), Scotland and Northern Ireland. Skillset Cymru published its Sector Skills Agreement for Wales in 2005. Below are the themes we base our actions upon, in order to meet the needs of our industries: — Pre-Entry Provision. — Informal and Community Learning. — Further and Higher Education. — Post Entry Training—entry-level training. — Information, Advice and Guidance. — Business and Company Development. The majority of the companies in the creative media industry in Wales are SMEs. Research carried out as part of the Sector Skills Agreement process identified the need for: targeted contextualised business support, a need for business, management and leadership training, support for small businesses to develop higher level specialised skills. Our research also shows that in our sectors 66% of the workforce is graduates and 24% hold postgraduate qualifications. Over 70% of employers see FE and HE as providing the potential to support pre-entry skills and specialized knowledge. The industry has identified a need to work more strategically with FE and HE providers to target resources to known centres or courses of excellence and to assist students and funding bodies making informed decisions about courses. The feedback we get from our industries in Wales regarding the HE provision available in our sectors often mentions the lack of relevance with the reality of the work environment. Industry usually resolves to in-house training or private specialised training (at high cost) in order to address skill gaps. Moreover, industry feedback suggests that the institutions are sometimes driven by the funding formulas to focus on number of learners at the detriment of quality and relevance to our industries. We recognise that HE provision is vital to the success of our industries but in order to meet their needs and contribute to their economic development, it needs to be more responsive.
Cross-border Comments
Skillset works extensively with Further and Higher Education across the UK. Based on our research and consultation with our industries, we have established UK-wide networks of FE and HE institutions which industry has signposted as providing excellence in specialist sub-sector provision. These networks involve Welsh FE and HE institutions and we explain in more detail below. Although we would welcome any initiatives of further collaboration amongst the two Higher Education funding councils (HEFCE and HEFCW) in particular, the relationships are working well so far. The industry is interested in quality provision wherever this can be supplied; competition, we believe, is healthy in raising the standards and we have noted instances where specialist training was not available through the FE and HE sector in Wales, or indeed its neighbouring English Regions. For example, a new entrants programme for the post production industries that we successfully run in Wales (called First Post) was delivered in Wales by the collaboration of a Welsh company (Barcud Derwen) and a London-based training facilitator (Soho Editors). The collaboration provided an opportunity to develop the capacity for specialist post-production training in Wales. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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It is also worth noting that the Skillset Cymru’s Training Framework, supported through the Welsh Assembly’s Workforce Development Programme, is another success story for our industries in Wales. Key to the success is the flexibility that the programme provides by supporting a sector-specific integrated oVer of Company, Freelance / Individual and Training support. This we believe is a good practice model that our Welsh industries are benefiting from.6 More details on this also below.
Project/Activities Outputs from Partnership Working with FE & HE and Employers As we mentioned before, our industries need a consistent supply of relevant high-level skills in order to remain competitive in a global market. Therefore, all our sector strategies have identified working with Further and Higher Education as a priority. Skillset’s work with Further and Higher Education is pioneering in bringing together partnerships of FE, HE and industry in order to address industry’s skills needs. Responding to the needs of specific sub-sectors of the creative industries, Skillset has devised solutions that are beneficiary to our industries, learners and the Further and Higher Education sector. These solutions are UK-wide and they encourage better co- ordination of FE and HE institutions across the borders through a network of Skillset Academies and Accredited courses: — The Skillset Media Academies form a network of colleges and universities across the UK which are Centres of Excellence in television and interactive media, selected by an industry-led panel. http:// www.skillset.org/training/san/sma/ — The Skillset Screen Academies are institutions which the UK film industry has identified as those oVering the highest quality of skills training for film. http://www.skillset.org/training/san/ssa/ — Working with industry, Skillset also accredits practice–based courses in FE and HE that most eVectively provide learners with the skills and knowledge that employers need. http:// www.skillset.org/training/approvals/article 4299 1.asp
In Wales
Skillset Screen Academy Wales The overall aim of the Skillset Screen Academy Wales is to enhance the quality of film education (which impacts on all other creative industries through the transferable skills gained), and therefore increase employability within the creative industries and retain creative talent. The lead partners are CardiV School of Creative and Cultural Industries (CCI) within the University of Glamorgan and the International Film School Wales (IFSW) at the University of Wales, Newport. The Academy also brings together other key centres of excellence in film-related vocational training and education: the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama; CardiV Business School; Swansea Metropolitan University; Cyfle, the national vocational training company for the film, television and interactive media industry in Wales, is the lead consultant to the partners.
Skillset Media Academy Wales Skillset has been approached by the consortium of institutions constituting the Screen Academy Wales. They are working towards a bid to become a Skillset Media Academy. The bid will be considered in autumn 2008.
Accredited Courses Currently, there are four industry accredited HE courses in Wales in two HE institutions: BA in Computer Animation, HND in Art & Design (Computer Animation) & BA Hons Animation at the Glamorgan Centre for Art & Design Technology. BA (Hons) Animation at the University of Wales, Newport. These institutions also receive funding through HEFCW and industry support through Skillset in the form of master-classes, work placements and representation in industry festival and events.
6 The Train to Gain oVer—a skills brokerage service available at present in England— is not sector specific. Skillset is working with Train to Gain brokers to provide a more sector-relevant oVer through the general service which will be more welcome amongst our industries. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Digital Media Consortia Digital Media Consortia is a partnership of six Higher Education Institutes dedicated to increasing communication and collaboration between academia and the digital media sector. It is the Consortia’s intended role to work with industry to help develop new markets and products and develop industrially relevant training provision for the Digital Media Sector. Skillset Cymru is working closely with its partners to develop new Management and Leadership courses for the creative media industries in Partnership with PACT, Cyfle and Learning to Inspire. They will be covering areas such as marketing, budgets and finance, staV and production management. We will be looking at appropriate HE engagement in delivering these courses.
Skillset Cymru Training Framework The Skillset Cymru Training Framework, supports creative media production companies and freelancers to enhance their skills in the challenging and constantly evolving creative media industries. The framework, developed in partnership with S4C and the Welsh Assembly Government, is open to all Wales-based freelancers and companies and provides: 1. Company support—employers will access the services of a Human Resource Advisor to develop Business Learning and Development Plans and then access funding to implement these plans and train their staV. Companies will have to oVer some match funding. 2. Freelance support—freelancers can also access a HR Advisor for guidance and funding to attend any training of their choice—funding could cover up to 80% of their training fees. 3. Funding for Training Providers—there is separate funding for training providers to develop programmes that address specific industry skill needs.
Areas for Improvement/Progression
We believe that better communication and flexibility between industry and HE will increase the economic contribution of the HE sector in the Welsh economy and help raise its productivity through the high level skills of its citizens. Greater interaction is needed to ensure specialist training is relevant, aVordable and graduates are employable. Consistent investment for specialist education focusing on quality will have in the long run greater impact in the economic development. The format for funding for Further and Higher education currently works on a payment per student principle for the institution—so Universities are encouraged to run popular courses, which may not serve the needs of the industry. With a wide range of FE/HE provision available of varying quality and relevance, industry has indicated to us that it wishes to see resources targeted to develop centres and courses of excellence to better assist students and funding bodies make more informed decision about programmes of study and their careers. We would like to note that Skillset Cymru has submitted these views to the Welsh Assembly Government through the Skills that Work for Wales consultation and the Welsh Assembly’s Government inquiry into the economic contribution of Higher Education. We have also expressed our views on the importance of provision for high level skills for the development of a thriving Welsh broadcasting industry to the Welsh Broadcasting Committee and we are making similar points to the Public Service Broadcasting Review currently conducted through OFCOM.
Vision Going Forward
In line with the National Assembly emphasis on skills and learning, Skillset has developed a Sector Qualifications Strategy for Wales. The key priorities identified include: — Create a greater oVer of flexible training for individuals including accredited in-house training schemes, by maximising the opportunities oVered by Credit and Qualifications In Wales. — Raise standards in Wales in both FE and work based learning at levels 3 and 4, undertaking a review of existing vocational qualifications and create a comprehensive and demand led oVer. — Encourage sustainable partnerships between industry and education and work with delivery partners to help develop and sustain eVective collaboration between industry and education in Wales. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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APPENDIX 8
SKILLS FOR JUSTICE
1. Executive Summary 1.1 This memorandum is the response of Skills for Justice, to the Welsh AVairs Committee letter to Karen Nimmo, Alliance of Sector Skills Councils dated 21 April 2008.
2. Introduction 2.1 Skills for Justice is the Sector Skills Council covering all employers, employees and volunteers working in the UK justice system. The Skills for Justice footprint in Wales comprises 24,600 employees, which is 2% of the entire Welsh population. This includes Community Justice; Court Services; Custodial Care operating in both the public and private sectors; Policing and Law Enforcement and Prosecution Services. 2.2 The Sector Skills Agreement is an assessment of skills needs and priorities within the Justice sector. It identifies and articulates the sector’s further workforce and skill needs so that employers, learning providers and Skills for Justice can take collaborative action to address them. It is intended to provide a means whereby employers and employees in the Justice sector can identify skills and productivity needs, the action they will take to meet those needs, and how they will collaborate with providers of training and skills so that skills demand can directly shape the nature of supply. 2.3 Skills for Justice concluded its SSA in Wales in November 2007 and subsequently agreed a partnership agreement with HEFCW which is outlined below as the basis for an on-going relationship between the Sector and Welsh HEIs. As a result of this agreement there are emerging partnerships with individual institutions.
3. Factual Information 3.1 The Committee has requested written evidence on the following issues: — Student recruitment and retention. — Student finance. — Research funding. — The way in which further and higher education institutes engage with employers on both sides of the border. 3.2 As the Sector Skills Council for the Justice Sector, Skills for Justice has a UK wide remit with representation in all four nations. In November 2007 when we agreed our Sector Skills Agreement we drew up a three year action plan with partners including Welsh Assembly Government, Careers Wales, Job Centre Plus, Wales TUC and the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales—HEFCW. 3.3 The Skills for Justice SSA highlighted that the vast majority of employers within the Justice sector provide training for their staV, more than 85% across the UK rely on in-house provision. The focus is predominantly on training at entry level for specialist staV such as Police OYcers or Probation OYcers and initial training ranging from a few weeks to two years. Substantial time, money, resource and planning is focused on induction and probationer training with the sector. There are several examples of how the HE sector is making provision to accommodate the justice sector in Wales for example: (a) University of Glamorgan The University of Glamorgan has founded the Glamorgan Centre for Police Sciences which is a multidisciplinary group of academic staV researching and teaching in police related matters. All initial police learning and development for South Wales Police OYcers is delivered at the University of Glamorgan by a mixture of serving Police OYcers and University StaV. All new recruits undertake a two year foundation degree in Police Studies. There is also an advanced appointment scheme for those students studying on the full time Police Studies degree whereby students enroll as Special Constables during their studies and upon graduation could become fully fledged police oYcers. University of Glamorgan has been innovative in its approach to meet the needs and demands not just of the police service. For example our SSA highlights a problem with a lack of training for multi-agency working. From next year a module on “Dealing with Vulnerable People” will be oVered and will see student police oYcers, health visitors, social workers and nurses coming together for joint tutorials which should naturally encourage multi agency working. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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(b) UPSI—Universities’ Police Science Institute The Universities Police Science Institute (UPSI) has been established to enhance and develop the professionalism of the police service. It will do this by improving the evidence based available to inform how policing is configured, delivered and developed. The UPSI is based upon an innovative collaboration between CardiV University, the University of Glamorgan (through the Glamorgan Centre for Police Sciences) and South Wales Police. This partnership enables the Institute to: — Apply innovative research methodologies and conceptual frameworks to the investigation of the most pressing challenges confronting the police. — Use its inter-disciplinary orientation so that the latest research evidence directly informs the training and development of new recruits to the police, as well as existing staV. — Design, implement and rigorously test new solutions to problems, so that policing agencies can deliver services that meet the needs of all communities. — Enhance the education and training of police personnel to promote evidence-based decision making. (c) Swansea Metropolitan University Swansea Metropolitan University has been working very closely with South Wales Police to develop a program for Leadership and Management—initially for those recently promoted to sergeant and inspector. The program is being developed jointly between SWP, SMU and Skills for Justice will be based upon National Occupational Standards and mapped across to a formal qualification. The project is still very much in the development stage but has been a very clear example of how a University can develop a flexible delivery model in order to meet the needs of an operational police service. Swansea Metropolitan University has also made accommodation available to South Wales Police to base their Western Professional Development Unit at the University. (d) University of Wales College Newport & Bangor University University of Wales College Newport were one of only four UK HEI’s to successfully bid to provide the Degree and Diploma (NVQ 4) in Probation Studies. The course can be delivered and examined through the medium of Welsh and has been developed as a joint exercise with Bangor University—who deliver the course to students in North Wales. 3.4 Out of the four issues highlighted in your letter we can only comment on the last point relating to cross border engagement. There are diYculties in our sector as the function of law enforcement and policing is not devolved. Prisons are not devolved, where as Education is. We currently have an issue where in England, Her Majesty’s Prison Service is using Train to Gain funds to finance Leadership and Development training whereas Wales has four prisons but no access to the Train to Gain fund. These examples may aVect the way in which further and higher education institutes engage with employers on both sides of the border. However, from the perspective of Skills for Justice it is too early to envisage what aVect this may be.
4. Conclusion
4.1 At the current time, Skills for Justice is unable to provide any further factual information to the Committee. However, as progress against the Wales action plan with HEFCW is achieved and further engagement made with HEI’s in Wales, Skills for Justice will be in a stronger position to comment in the future.
APPENDIX 9
SEMTA (SCIENCE, ENGINEERING AND MANUFACTURING TECHNOLOGIES SECTORS) COUNCIL
Executive Summary
1. Semta has focused on the employer engagement of further and higher education. Our view is that employer engagement is patchy for a number of reasons, which are common across the UK, but that the challenges faced by FE and HE in engagement are diVerent. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Semta, the Sector Skills Council 2. Industry owned and led, Semta aims to increase the impact of skilled people throughout the science, engineering and manufacturing technologies sectors. 3. We work with employers to determine their current and future skills needs and to provide short and long term skills solutions, whether that be training and skills development, or campaigning with government and other organisations to change things for the better. Through our labour market intelligence and insights from employers across our sectors, we identify change needed in education and skills policy and practice, and engage with key industry partners and partners in the education and training sector, to help increase productivity at all levels in the workforce. 4. The sectors we represent are: Aerospace; Automotive; Bioscience; Electrical; Electronics; Maintenance; Marine; Mathematics; Mechanical; Metals and Engineered Metal Products. 5. Semta is part of the network of 25 employer-led Sector Skills Councils.
Semta Response
Further and Higher Education Cross-border Employer Engagement 6. Semta manages a 4 Nations Group, which was set up specifically to highlight cross-border issues, and promote good practice across the four nations of the UK. This group has already identified a specific issue with the lack of a joined up strategy for UK PLC, which positions the needs of the economy within the business strategy for the higher education funding councils and Universities UK.
Further Education 7. FE employer engagement in England is variable, with some colleges and providers managing to oVer a wide range of training services appropriate to and tailored for companies in our sector. 8. The engineering sector is particularly fortunate in its network of Group Training Associations (which are found in England, Scotland and Wales), which provide apprenticeship management services, and bespoke training which is especially relevant for small firms. 9. The issues around FE employer engagement are typical across the 4 nations, namely: (a) Lack of flexibility of provision, particularly in colleges, whereby courses are oVered from a “menu” of content and delivery which does not permit an employer to access the kind of short, “just-in- time”, on-site courses it requires. This is usually due to the funding being linked to completion of whole qualifications, which necessitates the provider charging full cost for any provision outside this. Private providers may have an advantage in the “full cost” market as they have more credibility with employers to deliver bespoke, specialist training. (b) Indirect and direct cost to FE and employers of the process of engagement—setting up networks, and spending time building relationships can be a costly process for both parties. (c) FE college staV lack of time to improve their vocational skills in the workplace. One of the ways in which employer engagement can be facilitated is through tutor placements in industry, but the process of setting these up and giving them proper support is time-consuming. FE tutors’ current industry knowledge can be somewhat patchy, which also means their training delivery may compare poorly to that from private providers who can call on current practitioners. (d) Potential conflict between many colleges’ ethos of social inclusion, and the principle of “skills for employability” which is increasingly their remit. Some colleges have built their excellent reputations on local community links, helping those on the margins of society engage for the very first time in meaningful learning, but this reputation means local employers do not see them as credible providers of technical training. (e) The necessarily competitive market for employer training can lead to employers being “turned oV” from FE providers, particularly if they are cold-called repeatedly by local providers, all oVering similar provision and funding.
Higher Education 10. As mentioned previously, HE has particular issues in that economic need should be embedded in the strategy for funding across the four nations, in order to present a coherent picture. HE is more of a national and international consideration than FE, with students and institutions engaging across borders. 11. Issues with employer engagement with HE: (a) Problems of “language”—HE uses a very diVerent vocabulary to that of business, and the two sides can feel that their viewpoint is little understood by the other. University career structures and succession plans should give more importance, currency and priority to relevant job roles where business knowledge and experience will add value; thus encouraging staV in these job roles to Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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maintain and improve their business knowledge and experience via employer secondments. However, these career structures and succession planning processes must be transparent to give staV the incentive to develop this knowledge and experience. Current higher education culture does not appear to encourage this type of personal development. (b) Similarly to FE, HE has a potential conflict between meeting employer needs and its wider accepted remit—not social inclusion in this case, but rather the enlargement of knowledge, and development of pure research. Balancing these priorities can be problematic. (c) Although employers recognise and value higher education qualifications, not enough of these qualifications deliver the business-driven higher level skills that employers need and demand to drive their businesses forward. As a consequence employers buy the majority of the business driven higher level skills training and education from the private sector. The higher education sector needs to work more closely with Sector Skills Councils and employers to fully understand employer needs and demands for higher level skills and then develop new products and services that employers are prepared to buy.
Examples of Good Practice
Higher Apprenticeship at Airbus
12. The Higher Engineering Apprenticeship is being delivered for Airbus via a partnership arrangement between North East Wales Institute and Deeside College. Working with Semta, the company and providers have been able to develop a programme which meets the needs of the company, and which can be funded through existing channels. The Higher Engineering Apprenticeship comprises a Foundation Degree (or HND), NVQs at Levels 3 and 4, and Key Skills to the highest levels. It also links to professional standards through the engineering institutions. The individual therefore achieves a nationally recognised set of qualifications within a framework of delivery which suits the company, and which provides the skills the company needs both now and in the future.
Work on composites
13. In the Deeside area, work has recently been undertaken to establish the feasibility of the establishment of a Composite Skills Academy. The academy would particularly support the aerospace sector across the UK as it moves into advanced composites, but other sectors such as marine, automotive, construction and healthcare would also benefit. There is clearly a will to become world class behind such projects, and we hope the Committee will consider supporting schemes which are built on strong employer engagement.
APPENDIX 10
ASSET SKILLS COUNCIL (PROPERTY SERVICES, HOUSING FACILITIES MANAGEMENT AND CLEANING INDUSTRIES) Higher Education plays an important role in developing skills across the Built Environment sector and therefore makes a significant financial contribution to the Welsh economy. Asset Skills is the Sector Skills Council (SSC) responsible for the skills interests of employers in the Property Services, Housing, Facilities Management and Cleaning industries. It represents employers and organisations throughout Wales and the UK that provide services to owners and occupiers of all types of property (commercial, public and private). There is an Asset Skills Cymru board of employers representing our four sectors, comprising a cross section of Welsh companies and UK national ones with oYces or branches in Wales. This gives an employer cross section of SMEs, larger focused Welsh companies and also firms with a UK perspective but also Welsh interest. Asset Skills has also developed an extensive data-base of employers that can be filtered to target specific geographical areas, sectors and size of companies. The main issues for our employers regarding cross border issues would aVect the UK wide employers with employees/oYces in Wales due to the diVerences in accessing training and funding eg the Employer Pledge in Wales is diVerent to the Employer Pledge in England. Procurement would also be an issue due to diVerent procedures in Wales and England. These would also be issues for employers operating near the borders eg Wrexham, Monmouth, where within a short operating distance the diVerences in funding opportunities, training, qualifications and procurement opportunities could be markedly diVerent. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Background—Asset Skills Cymru
Profile of the Asset Skills Sector in Wales — The Asset Skills sector in Wales employs about 31,600 people. — About 45% of the workforce is employed in Property and Housing and about 55% in the Facilities Management and Industrial Cleaning industries. — 93% of all Asset Skills’ workplaces in Wales are small, employing between 1-10 people. — The proportion of the UK Asset Skills workforce employed in Wales (4%) is marginally lower than the proportion of total UK employment located in Wales (about 5%).
Skills Shortages/Issues Related to HE
Surveying An area that has been highlighted in Asset Skills’ Sector Needs Analysis (SNA) carried out for our Sector Skills Agreement is the gender/age deficit, especially related to the surveying profession. This has been exacerbated in Wales due to a lack of surveying courses with students having to travel out of Wales for course provision and then often failing to return to Wales for employment possibly due to wage diVerentials. A report by Asset Skills on the Analysis of HE Provision within the Asset Skills Sector showed that surveying students from Wales comprised: — 12% in the North East of England. — 9% in the East Midlands. — 5% in the South West of England. — 5% in the West Midlands. — 5% in Yorkshire and Humberside.
Planning A shortage of town planners, especially in local authorities, has also been highlighted in Asset Skills’ SNA. Students from Wales in planning courses in England comprised: — 12% in the South West of England. — 5% in the West Midlands. — 3% in the South East of England.
Housing The number of Welsh students travelling out of Wales to study housing courses is very small, the highest percentage being 2% in both the North West of England and West Midlands. This could be explained by accessibility to courses within Wales with relatively little need to travel to access a suitable course and also good linkages with Welsh employers. UWIC (University of Wales Institute, CardiV), is also seeing students apply from the Midlands, Marches and the South West of England with around 12% of their full time students coming from outside Wales, and is developing employer links in those areas. However, with regard to part time students connected with UWIC, on qualification a small number have left their organisations to work in England, in areas such as the Forest of Dean, Hereford, Gloucestershire and Bristol. This is primarily for experience in higher level posts and they tend to return to Wales when an opportunity arises.
Addressing the Shortages It is hoped that the shortages in HE courses within surveying and planning will in some way be addressed by the introduction this academic year of a number of RICS (Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors) accredited courses in surveying and planning at the University of Glamorgan eg Foundation Degree in Surveying, HNC in Surveying and MSc Construction Project Management along with undergraduate courses in Quantity Surveying and Real Estate Appraisal and Project Management. These are in addition to five RICS accredited under-graduate and master’s courses already run by CardiV University.
Higher Education Forum and Employer Engagement Asset Skills’ Sector Needs Analysis also identified the following as issues and skills needs relevant to the HE Sector and employers. — More eVective employer engagement with HE. — Undergraduate provision which better meets the needs of employers. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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— Developing qualifications: demand for specialist skills and qualifications eg regeneration. — Refining HE provision in Facilities Management (FM) and developing FM as a career. — Making housing more attractive as a career option to graduates. — Tackling the gender and age deficit within the surveying profession. — Address the undersupply of town planners. — Closing the skills gaps between academic knowledge and reality of undertaking work especially as a chartered surveyor. To meet the skills needs that have been highlighted above by our Sector Needs Analysis an HE Built Environment Forum of HEI providers working in Asset Skills’ sectors has been set up at Asset Skills’ instigation. So far the response from HEIs has been positive with eight institutions participating. Asset Skills is in the process of gathering employers to input into the forum and a number of employers are already committed to an ongoing dialogue with HEIs. The employers involved are all Welsh based but some are part of larger organisations which will provide an opportunity to assess any cross border needs. We will also propose to the forum that when there are cross border interests that these be looked at as well.
Summary/Recommendations — Asset Skills sees HEIs as an important element in delivering their SSA and in meeting the skills needs of employers. — Bringing together HEIs which have common ground and can work together to avoid duplication so that resources are best used and provide graduates who are as ‘work ready’ as possible would benefit the Asset Skills sectors. — We are also looking to develop similar engagement in the further education sector.
Additional Background Information on Asset Skills — Asset Skills is the Sector Skills Council for the Property Services, Housing, Facilities Management and Cleaning industries. — Asset Skills was licensed as an SSC in 2005 and was a combination of national training organisations that joined together. — Asset Skills Cymru’s SSA was completed and signed in October 2007. — Asset Skills’ Sector Qualification Strategy was approved in March this year. — Direct funding has been received from Wales since Asset Skills was licensed to facilitate the delivery of sector specific projects. — Asset Skills’ Welsh Language Scheme has been approved in draft form and is due to go for consultation in the next two months. — The Head of Asset Skills Cymru is based in Wales. Asset Skills has had a dedicated Welsh presence since it was licensed in 2005.
APPENDIX 11
LANTRA COUNCIL (LAND BASED AND ENVIRONMENTAL SECTOR) The land-based and environmental sector is currently served by a network of specialist learning providers. This provision often comes at a cost though, both in terms of estates, capital investment, higher unit costs and provision of residential accommodation. There are concerns that increased pressure for these institutions to amalgamate, particularly with larger general providers, would have a detrimental eVect on their quality and sectoral focus. One particular example is the Welsh College of Horticulture where the current debate concerning amalgamation is polarised between working with a larger local FE provider or seeking a strategic partnership with an HE provider. The latter solution would provide both improved progression routes for students and access to higher level courses in horticulture in Wales for the first time. In respect of curriculum development, The Welsh College of Horticulture is also actively involved in a consortium supporting delivery of the Specialised Diploma in Cheshire and sees this work as also benefiting the development delivery of the land-based Welsh Baccalaureate. This synergy will further enhance individuals’ progression routes within horticulture. Where no specialist HE provision exists, as for instance with Veterinary Sciences, any aspirant Welsh student must travel to other parts of the United Kingdom. With significantly higher levels of tuition fees in England, this has the potential to cause barriers to access. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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There has been a strong flow of students in both directions across the border in order to access specialist land-based provision; if funding barriers were to be put in place this would both damage access for individuals and may put pressure on the financial sustainability of those specialist Welsh providers close to border with England.
APPENDIX 12
COGENT COUNCIL (CHEMICALS, PHARMACEUTICALS, NUCLEAR, OIL AND GAS, PETROLEUM AND POLYMERS) 1. It is diYcult for SSC regional managers to comment on cross border issues since if they solely represent Wales they may be unaware of activities in England. 2. As the education and skills policies of England and Wales increasingly diverge there will need to be additional resources to scrutinize and respond to changes. For example, England will raise the school leaving age to 18 within five years and Wales has no plans to do so and activities to address NEET youngsters are diverging. 3. Employers require ever higher employee skills to remain competitive and are increasingly confused by diVerent qualifications, for example the English diploma and the Welsh Baccalaureate are similar but with subtle diVerences. The engineering diploma starts in England in September but the engineering Baccalaureate starts in September 2009. The engineering outcome aspects are the same but supporting learning diVer. Cogent industries are often global in nature, so comparing potential employee’s qualifications will become increasingly diYcult. 4. Cogent has received approval for two National Skills Academies (one for nuclear NSAN, and one for the process industries NSAPI), which are wholly owned subsidiaries. These will become the delivery mechanism for the relevant Sector Skills Agreements, with employer led National Occupational Standards and Sector Qualification Strategies developed. NSAN has been recognized in Wales (given its employer support and strategic importance in Anglesea, but support for future National Skills Academies in Wales is being reviewed. 5. Cogent are developing foundation degrees for its industry sectors, supported by Foundation Degree Forward in England, but support for foundation degrees in Wales is being discussed. 6. Cogent supports the increasingly important composites sector for aviation, but there are diVering training support mechanisms for Filton in Bristol and Broughton in North Wales.
APPENDIX 13
ENERGY & UTILITY SKILLS COUNCIL Energy & Utility Skills is the Sector Skills Council for the electricity, gas, waste management and water industries. Employer-led, our purpose is to identify employers’ skills needs and provide eVective solutions to improve business performance across the UK. The energy and utility sector in Wales is a critical and significant sector and employs around 30,000 people. The sector in Wales has a strong history of reliability and dependability stretching back some 50 years. Electricity, gas and water in particular have a sound brand name founded on a skilled workforce platform. Our sector faces advancing technology, rapid change, global competition and rising expectations of choice. The skills of our people and their continuing development are crucially important to employers and employees. The sector has an aging workforce and is faced with a declining number of young people entering the workforce. This relates specifically to suitable candidates for skilled roles which are so important to the continued improvements in productivity sought by the economic regulators. Work is needed to ensure that the sector is perceived as an attractive career choice for young people and those from non-traditional employment pools. There is good evidence to suggest that those who come to work for the sector stay for significantly longer than the UK average. This suggests that the challenge of getting candidates across the doorstep can be addressed; our sector will be able to meet the upskilling challenge needed by its workforce to meet the challenges ahead. Additionally, Energy & Utility Skills represents sectors with a higher than average demand for high level, graduate skills, particularly in the STEM subjects, with Water and Electricity having employees with qualifications at level 4/5 at 30% compared to 22% for the whole economy. There is also significant evidence of skills gaps in the emerging renewable energy industry, particularly in design, maintenance and installation. Also skills gaps exist within the gas industry among technicians, engineers and supervisors/managers. Within the waste management and utility contracting industries, a clear need exists to up-skill the existing workforce in basic, functional and technical skills Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Sector Skills Agreement Energy & Utility Skills completed its SSA process in November 2007. Our five major skills priorities are being developed and delivered in Wales. A few examples from each of these priorities which will deliver both macro and micro change are outlined below: 1. Government Policy Our employers consider that one of our strategic sector skills solutions is the need to develop a strong, sector-wide influencing position to take to government which supports the strategic skills needs of the sector. 2. Regulation The electricity, upstream gas and water industries are subject to economic and safety-related regulation. The continued focus on driving eYciency and downsizing has had an adverse impact on medium and longer-term investment in people and skills. Currently, these industries have an ageing workforce and long lead-times to replace these essential people who provide critical services and therefore, potentially significant skills shortages may well present themselves in the next five to 15 years. 3. Competence Our employers need competent and productive people. In electricity and gas (both upstream and downstream) there is a real need to review all the qualifications that currently exist and renew them with employer involvement. Across the whole of EU Skills sector footprint, we are attempting to develop a more flexible approach to qualifications that will give our employers a wider range of options in the future. Employer-led, our Sector Qualification Strategy (SQS) is based on National Occupational Standards (NOS), which are benchmarks of competence for specified occupations that employees can be measured against. The SQS will allow skills and knowledge to be recognised and credit matched against those standards. This process has begun in 2008. For more information on the SQS please contact Hal Igarishi at Energy & Utility Skills, hal.igarishiweuskills.co.uk. In Wales, employers have committed to working in collaboration during 2007–08 and 2008–09, investing “in-kind” support to renewing the qualification structure and competence frameworks to meet the needs of their 21st century businesses. 4. Skills Provision In Wales employers are prepared to invest in new people and to up-skill their existing workforce; however, they identified a significant shortage in training provision and capacity. Historically many employers have been forced to seek provision across the border in England. The need to improve provision is therefore clearly demonstrated across all areas of learning in Wales both within Further and Higher Education provision and within the private training provider sector. The Welsh Higher Education Institutions have an integral part to play in addressing the changing needs of our industries and in providing flexible learning programmes that meet employers’ needs; specifically we are working in collaboration with HEFCW and Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) across Wales. These institutions have committed to addressing the collective needs of the “Sustainable Energy” aspect within the sector, with a focus on new technologies and in utilising best practice in work-based learning techniques. 5. Sector Recruitment & Attractiveness Our employer-led research has confirmed it is increasingly diYcult for our employers to attract and recruit the correct people into our industries. This problem is exacerbated by an ageing workforce and long lead-times to develop competent individuals. Nationally we have agreed to work with employers, stakeholders and partners to develop and implement a sustainable sector recruitment and attractiveness strategy.
Energy &Utility Skills and Cross Border HE/FE Provision Energy & Utility Skills’ footprint contains a range of diverse employers. Many of the employers within the sector, particularly within the Electricity, Water and Upstream Gas, are the large asset owning companies who work across not one, but sometimes all three of the mainland nations within the UK- for example National Grid, RWEnPower, Wales and West Utilities, Western Power Distribution, Scottish Power. Other large organisations work as contractors and subcontractors into the asset owners, such as United Utilities, Amec and Balfour Beatty. Many of these organisations can access little or no provision in Wales. Water contractors currently source training with a private training companies and FE colleges based in England to support their work with Dwr Cymru and while shortages of work based learning assessors are prevalent throughout the UK, these shortages are critical in Wales. There is currently no waste management training oVered with the public sector at FE level in Wales. Energy & Utility Skills are currently developing a bid into Welsh Assembly Government which will develop a network of provision across FE and the private sector. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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However, there are examples of Wales providing exemplar provision. Bridgend College, currently hold the contract with RWEnPower to train all the generation apprentices for the Midlands, South and West of England, and Wales. Bridgend College won this contract through a competitive tendering bid. EUS are striving to develop consortia arrangements between employers and HE/FE. This is based on collaborative development and delivery of higher skills programmes/solutions. The role of EUS is to facilitate these collaborative arrangements in order to optimise sustainable higher skills provision. Whilst recognising the desire for national diversity the cross border challenges include: — Parity on qualifications or at least comparability that is recognisable to employers (eg Foundation Degrees): — The introduction of the Diploma and the inclusion of the PLL into the Welsh Bac is an example of potential areas of confusion for employers. — Any developments in the Work Based Learning Pathway for an employer who works across borders will be diYcult, when the YA programme is already oVered, and funded and managed diVerently in England. — Academic credit systems that enable portability of qualifications. — Alignment/integration, simplicity and transparency of funding agency policies. Eg HEFCE/ HEFCW, Step up Sector/Workforce Development Fund/Train to Gain. — Funding of apprentice training is a particular example. Employers in the sector have to deal with cross border funding inconsistencies, and employers with their own (excellent) in house systems have, in the past, turned away from government funding because of a heavy burden of bureaucracy which was exacerbated by audit and quality checks carried out by stakeholders from diVerent departments with duplications across the nations. This confusion over funding may well turn employers away from recruiting apprentices.
APPENDIX 14
GOVERNMENT SKILLS COUNCIL
1. Executive Summary 1.1 This memorandum is the Government Skills response to the Welsh AVairs Committee letter to Karen Nimmo, Alliance of Sector Skills Councils dated 21 April 2008.
2. Introduction 2.1 Government Skills is the Sector Skills Council for central government and the armed forces. This includes all government departments, their executive agencies and Assembly Government Sponsored Public Bodies (AGSPBs) and the armed forces. This represents an overall footprint of 800,000 staV. In Wales approximately 37,000 staV are employed in the sector. Government Skills was licensed in February 2006. 2.2 The Skills Strategy for Government (Building Professional Skills for Government—A strategy for delivery) represents the Sector Skills Agreement and is an assessment of skills needs and priorities within the sector. It identifies and articulates the sector’s current and further workforce needs so that key stakeholders can take collaborative action to address them. The Skills Strategy for Government is a three year strategy which was approved by the Permanent Secretaries Management Group (PSMG) in January 2008 and was formally launched on 1 April 2008.
3. Factual Information 3.1 The Committee has requested written evidence on the following issues: — Student recruitment and retention. — Student finance. — Research funding. — The way in which further and higher education institutes engage with employers on both sides of the border. 3.2 As the Sector Skills Council for central government, Government Skills has a UK wide remit with representation in all four nations. In accordance with guidance from the Commission for Employment and Skills (and formerly the Sector Skills Development Agency), within Wales, action plans in order to support and implement the Skill Strategy for government have been agreed with all five partner organizations. The five partners (Welsh Assembly Government, Careers Wales, JobCentre Plus, Wales TUC and the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales—HEFCW) approved the three year action plans in February 2008. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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3.3 The HEFCW action plan is in the early stages of implementation and as such, at the current time it is not possible for Government Skills to comment on any of the bullet points in the Committee’s letter. The skills strategy includes a programme of engagement with the higher and further education sectors. Our objective is to articulate government’s future needs as an employer—as they relate to the future and current workforce. 3.4 As the Strategy is implemented and we gain greater experience of working with higher and further education, we should be better placed to answer some of the Committee’s current questions. We look forward to being able to help the Committee further in future.
APPENDIX 15
SKILLSACTIVE COUNCIL 1. SkillsActive is the Sector Skills Council (SSC) for Active Leisure and Learning, covering the sub- sectors of sport and recreation, health and fitness, the outdoors, playwork and camping and caravanning. 2. Like all SSCs, SkillsActive operates across the UK and consults with employers to identify skills gaps and shortages and other pertinent issues within the labour market. Through UK-wide employer consultation, SkillsActive develops National Occupational Standards (NOS) for key occupations to ensure that appropriate qualifications and training are available to respond to the needs that are identified by employers. 3. SkillsActive believes that Sector Skills Agreements (SSA) provide the basis for a shared agenda between a Sector Skills Council, its employers and providers in Wales. Indeed SSCs can be the main route to ensure that the views of employers can be expressed in a clear and co-ordinated way to support the strategic development of both FE and HE in Wales. 4. SkillsActive concluded its SSA in Wales at the end of 2006 and has subsequently developed a partnership agreement with the Welsh Assembly Government and HEFCW which provides the basis for an on-going relationship between the Sector and Welsh providers of both further and higher education. Work is underway in implementing these agreements and there is an emerging partnership approach with individual institutions.
Industry Background (UK) 5. Active Leisure and Learning contributed £8.6 billion in output to the UK economy in 2004—growth is double that of the UK economy over the last five years. 6. SkillsActive’s five sub-sectors employed 660,000 in 2007 paid employees in over 36,500 organisations. 7. Employment growth had soared in the previous five years—almost four times that of all UK industries. 8. The sector comprises of micro organisations (73%) and SMEs, with less than 1% of employers employing over 250 employees. 9. Active Leisure and Learning is the largest single sector for volunteering, accounting for 26% of the voluntary workforce.
Future Growth 10. The sector is expected to continue outperforming the UK economy until 2014—with output up to £11.9 billion. 11. Annual staV turnover is predicted to be around 14%, which combined with growth in employment, will result in at least 1 million job opportunities (paid) between 2004 and 2014.
Wales 12. There are 27,000 people employed within the sector in Wales in around 2,100 organisations. This accounts for around 4.6% of the UK total. 13. Wales has 8% more than its anticipated share of employment in the sector compared to the UK as a whole. 14. 64% of Welsh employers employ less than 50 people. 15. Employment is set to grow to around 30,000 by 2014. 16. Sector GVA is £400 million—the largest sector (sport and recreation) produces 50% of that total. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Demand Side Skills Needs Analysis across Wales 17. Almost 1 in 4 “establishments” report a vacancy. 18. 45% of establishments with a vacancy deemed them hard-to-fill. 19. 38% of organisations with a hard-to-fill vacancy attributed it to a skills shortage reason. 20. 15% of employers report a skills gap amongst their existing workforce. 21. Skills most commonly cited as being in need of improvement are team working skills, customer handling skills, technical and practical and communication skills. Management, IT and Welsh language skills are also cited by a higher than average proportion of employers. 22. Operational/duty managers/assistant managers, play workers and coaches/fitness instructors/ personal trainers account for the largest proportion of skills gaps.
Assessment of Supply Side Higher Education Provision across Wales 23. HESA destination data for Welsh HE courses show 39 courses available in the sector in 2003–04 with 31 containing a sport and recreation element, three health and fitness and 13 in the outdoors. There were no HE courses identified in Playwork or the caravan sectors. 24. Approximately two thirds (64%) of leavers from Welsh institutions are retained in employment in Wales with one third (32%) working in England. 25. Over 1,200 learners were accepted into Sport and Recreation HE courses in 2003–04, a 40% increase since 1999. Approximately two thirds (67%) of those entrants were male. 26. More learners studying Sport and Recreation qualifications in Welsh HEIs come from England (50%) than Wales (46%). 27. Around two thirds (64%) of leavers from Welsh institutions are retained in employment in Wales. 28. Approximately a third of Higher Education leavers in SkillsActive related courses enter employment in the sector.
Main Employer Issues 29. Employers regularly report an oversupply of graduates in areas such as sports science and sports development, and that too many HE graduates lack essential vocational elements and “employability skills”. 30. Employers seek more of a balanced combination between practical and academic modules. 31. Employers sometimes believe that graduates have unrealistic employment expectations. Demand for coaching qualifications in the UK has seen huge increases in take up over the last five years. 32. Demand in other qualifications such as Sport Development courses, Sport and Recreation Management, Health and Fitness and Outdoors courses have also increased significantly in the last five years.
General Comments 34. SSCs are primarily concerned with ensuring that their sectors have the skilled and qualified workforce that they need to succeed—in terms of business growth, productivity or public service performance. A key focus for partnership with providers of FE and HE is to ensure the supply of graduates with these appropriate skills. 35. The transition from education to employment is not always easy. As a Sector we would encourage increased vocational content in academic programmes, based on the Sector’s National Occupational Standards (NOS). 36. We also recognise that not all HE provision should be vocationally specific and it should be noted that already only one-third of Welsh graduates end up in employment in the Sector. People should be assisted to make an informed choice when entering HE as to the courses with a clear vocational focus—the Foundation Degree label is useful for this. “Graduate Apprenticeships” have also found favour in our Sector, recognising that graduates need support and development time in industry after graduation. 37. A second major area of partnership with HE surrounds the capacity of HE to support the technical and scientific research needed by sectors. For us this is more limited than in other sectors such as engineering. However, sports and exercise sciences and psychology underpin high performance in sport and have enabled UWIC to play a lead role in the UK in the preparation of elite athletes. 38. Our partnership with Higher Education is also evident in Sector research. For example, we recently concluded an investigation into employability skills gaps in the Sector with UWIC, resulting in the publication of a training provider database geared to meet the identified gaps. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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39. There are concerns around funding that need to be overcome, for example, a scenario can sometimes emerge whereby a qualification attracts funding in England but not in Wales (or to diVerent levels). Therefore, there needs to be parity in funding across borders and funding regimes need to be closely aligned to sector needs.
40. It is both attractive and advantageous for learners if qualifications and training have parity across borders. The labour market is increasingly becoming more mobile across the UK (and Europe), therefore, it is important to ensure that acquired skills are transferable and have a common status. The Register of Exercise Professionals (REPs) is the quality assurance mechanism for the health and fitness industry. This provides a framework within the health and fitness sector whereby career progression routes can be mapped across the UK, Europe and on a global level.
41. Employers often report that providers of Further Education in Wales are provided with an allocation of learning units at the start of an academic year and are usually capped for growth and development. Therefore, this has resulted in a situation where Further Education Institutions are not able to oVer flexible approaches to respond to the needs of employers.
42. Wales often has unique training opportunities for which we would be keen to ensure that there is suitable provision oVered to students across the UK, for example, the outdoor sector within the Snowdonia National Park area (NW Wales). Focussing upon this example, a situation has emerged where local people are under-represented within the industry. Therefore, SkillsActive has worked with a range of stakeholders in an attempt to develop initiatives that will attract local people into the outdoor sector.
Proposed Solutions
43. SkillsActive can provide labour market information, intelligence and skills forecasts for the sector. This data should be shared with both further and higher education institutions across Wales to inform the content of relevant curricula. SkillsActive has recently worked in partnership with the University of Wales Institute CardiV (UWIC) to identify the specific skills that underpin reported ‘employability skills’ shortages in the areas of team working, customer handling, communication, problem solving and management skills, and specific findings should be used to inform curriculum development or the content of various programmes. This data covers the whole UK and we see no reason why Welsh HEIs should not provide for the wider UK sector market. Our analysis will help this be eVective.
44. As the standard setting body for the industry, SkillsActive develops, reviews and maintains a set of eVective and accessible national occupational standards for the active leisure and learning sector, and has developed frameworks for foundation degrees, modern apprenticeships and work based learning, all of which can be shared with Wales’ education institutions who wish to take account of vocational requirements.
45. SkillsActive is also building upon the Sector Skills Agreement by developing a Sector Qualification Strategy (SQS) in consultation with partners across Wales. The overall aim of the SQS is to establish a coherent framework of education and training to meet the needs of the active leisure and learning sector— to address the skills requirements of the sector. The SQS will determine the basis of our approval of qualifications and credits onto the emerging Qualification and Credit Framework (in England). However, SSCs will require a consistent level of influence over what is included upon the relevant frameworks across England and Wales.
46. The development of Foundation Degrees is seen as a way of delivering a vocational focus and as a sector we would support their development in Wales. These can be delivered flexibly, allowing study alongside employment and are particularly attractive for those seeking access to HE later in their career, supporting their development into managerial positions. Skills That Work For Wales (WAG Skills Strategy) recognises the value of foundation degrees in meeting business needs for higher level qualifications that balance academic study with workplace relevance. We are supportive of the notion that Wales HEIs are free to develop foundation degrees (including through franchise arrangements with FEIs) although understand the WAG view that this should not be at the expense of other provision such as HNCs or HNDs where those courses may have strong employer recognition.
47. We would expect Further Education colleges to serve a more local market whilst drawing on provision that meets National (Sector) Standards. In particular, providing for the up-skilling of the existing workforce through flexible and work- based delivery to support more local employment market priorities. We would encourage partnerships between FE and HE in delivery so higher level skills can be developed as part of the flexible FE oVer and in turn so that the vocational expertise of FE can be harnessed by HEIs to increase the vocational relevance of courses as seen in the development of Foundation Degrees especially in England. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Conclusion 48. SkillsActive are very keen to work in partnership with Wales’ providers of both further and higher education institutions in an attempt to address the concept of employability within the active leisure and learning sector, and to have a positive impact upon the skills and productivity challenges that exist within Wales. 49. We see no reason why HE provision in Wales should not also serve the UK market. Quality is the key. Use of the Sector national occupations as the basis for course design can ensure UK wide industry applicability. We would be willing to advise on market issues when new provision is contemplated to avoid over-supply. 50. FE provision should have a more local priority focus, working within the national credit and qualification provision which will be matched by the SSC against their national standards. 51. Employers need to understand provision. They would welcome consistency and simplicity in funding and qualification frameworks. SSCs can help develop this understanding in their Sectors with employers and establishing a clear relationship back to the Sector’s standards can support this. SSCs can provide UK currency for the skills system.
Memorandum submitted by the Association of Colleges
Summary 1. The Association of Colleges (AoC) welcomes the opportunity to comment on cross-border provision between England and Wales. AoC is the representative body for the 400 further education colleges in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. This submission relates to the Wales-domiciled learners studying in English colleges. Our sister organisation in Wales, Vorwm, plans to submit a response relating to Welsh- domiciled learners studying at English colleges. 2. In 2006–07 there were 3,761 Welsh domiciled students studying at English further education colleges. 11 colleges account for two-thirds of these students, including colleges in Cheshire, Shropshire and Gloucestershire which are a few miles from the border. 3. Learners choose where to study by considering the curriculum available, its quality and the travel to study distance rather than the position of the Wales/England border. 4. This response identifies a number of areas where the rules applying to English colleges limits the choices of those living in Wales, particularly those living within a short distance of the border. Often those on the Welsh side live only a few miles from an institution in England but many more miles from an institution in Wales. 5. We recommend that the Select Committee consider ways in which the Welsh Assembly Government and the authorities in England improve the co-ordination of cross-border 16-19 and post-19 provision and reconsider the rules that apply to funding, transport and marketing.
Welsh Domiciled Students in English Colleges 6. In 2006–07 there were 3,761 Welsh domiciled students studying at English further education colleges. 11 colleges account for two-thirds of these students, including colleges in Cheshire. Shropshire and Gloucestershire which are a few miles from the border. Some, more distant, colleges provide very specific courses which attract an unusually large number of Welsh-domiciled students. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Table 1
LEARNERS FROM WALES IN FE COLLEGES IN ENGLAND, 2006–07
% of Welsh domiciled students in Number of Number of English Provider Name 16–18 students 19! students Total colleges
West Cheshire College 90 725 815 21.7 Walford and North Shropshire College 132 251 383 10.2 City of Bristol College 27 230 257 6.8 Manchester College of Arts and Technology (Mancat) 22 228 250 6.6 Herefordshire College of Technology 84 111 195 5.2 Blackpool and the Fylde College 9 163 172 4.6 Shrewsbury College of Arts and Technology 35 118 153 4.1 Ruskin College Oxford 0 110 110 2.9 Solihull College 0 90 90 2.4 Royal Forest of Dean College 52 35 87 2.3 Telford College of Arts and Technology 0 76 76 2.0 Others (135 Colleges) 207 906 1,173 31.2
7. Table 2 illustrates the comparison with the previous year and particularly a sharp fall in post-19 numbers as a result of the changes to Learning and Skills Council funding rules. These reductions are not particular to Wales-domiciled students and have aVected all colleges in England in a similar way. There was a reduction of 700,000 further education students in English colleges between 2005–06 and 2006–07.
Table 2
TOTAL NUMBERS OF WALES-DOMICILED LEARNERS STUDYING IN COLLEGES IN ENGLAND
% 2005–06 2006–07 diVerence
16–18 763 718 "5.9 19! 4,013 3,043 "24.2 Total 4,776 3,761 "21.3
Enrolment of Students 8. Most further education colleges recruit from a local catchment area with students travelling to study from their home or workplace. The English Welsh border follows natural boundaries at most points but cuts across normal daily travel routes in the North and the South (between Cheshire and Flintshire/Sir Y Fflint and between Gloucestershire and Monmouthshire/ Sir Y Fynwy). This would not create a problem were it not for Learning and Skills Council funding rules and processes. 9. According to LSC funding guidance, enrolment of Welsh learners should only take place in “exceptional circumstances” and “it is not expected that colleges in England will recruit entire groups of learners from outside their local area” (LSC Learner Eligibility Guidance 2007–08, 17 May 2007) Funding allocations are calculated on English demographics even though colleges close to the border are serving communities in Wales. 10. The people who lose out from these rules and processes are Welsh-domiciled learners. English colleges are restricted in their ability to recruit and tailor their courses to local students, who are thereby pushed to study at Welsh colleges even if less convenient or less suitable. This applies in reverse to English domiciled learners who live close to Welsh colleges (for example near the Shropshire/Powys border). 11. The diVerent approach taken to funding and pay also has an impact on staYng in colleges. StaV in Welsh colleges are often better paid than their counterparts in England as a result of the Welsh Assembly Government’s decision to ensure parity with schools. A college near the border reports that these diVerences have caused staV to leave for colleges in Wales and has made it more diYcult to recruit new people. 12. The position could be further complicated by the UK Government proposals to abolish the Learning and Skills Council and transfer responsibility for funding 16–19 provision to local authorities. AoC hopes that the new funding rules are flexible so that college learners in England and Wales are not disadvantaged and the border does not become a barrier to learning. The Government’s recent consultation paper “Raising Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Expectations: enabling the system to deliver” (Cm 7348) may provide an opportunity for the Westminster Government and the Welsh Assembly Government to give a view about the future of cross-border FE provision.
Support for Businesses 13. Colleges close to the border with Wales are unable to oVer employer initiatives such as Train to Gain, through which Government subsidises staV training, to businesses in Wales although many of them may have major skills gaps. Colleges are able to oVer commercial provision (ie fully paid for by the employer) but are not supposed to market the Government-funded programmes direct to Welsh businesses so are responsive rather than proactive. 14. Separately funded initiatives (for example the European Social Fund) cannot be delivered across the border in Wales by colleges based in England. This makes it more diYcult for border colleges to support deprived communities in their areas and more likely that funds will be directed elsewhere. 15. Learners often travel across the border to access specialisms which are not available in their “home” nation. For example, learners who live in west or central Cheshire who want to study aerospace engineering would probably choose Deeside College as no nearby college in England oVers this course. Equally, if a potential student in North Wales wants to study hospital pharmacy they would choose West Cheshire College as no local Welsh college oVers it. A primary objective of the education system in both England and Wales must be that these learners are able to access the courses of their choice. 16. The figures in Table 1 demonstrate that some colleges, although not near the border, attract a significant number of Wales-domiciled students. For example Blackpool and the Fylde College has 163 learners aged over 19 from Wales. Only three of these learners are funded by the Learning and Skills Council with the majority studying, at full-cost, at the College’s specialist Nautical Campus. For example 53% of the total number in the OVshore School and 29% in the Maritime School are Wales-domiciled.
Transport 17. Transport provision for Wales-domiciled students who choose to learn at colleges in England can often present problems. The Welsh Assembly Government is clear that it does not fund provision for Welsh learners who choose to study outside Wales and this rule also covers transport. 18. The issue is complicated by the role of local authorities which is responsible for transport of 16–19 year olds in full-time education. Decisions of local authorities are a major issue when it comes to ensuring learners from both sides of the border are able to access the course of their choice. We have heard from colleges in England whose learners have been aVected by a decision of a local authority in Wales to amend the funding rules regarding transport. 19. A further issue which has been reported to us is England domiciled learners in rural areas receiving free transport to Welsh colleges whereas if they travel to the English college of their choice, in their home county, they have to pay a contribution towards their travel costs.
Conclusion 20. Further education college students on both sides of the England/Wales border need to access the best choice of course to enable their personal advancement and achievement. 21. Sometimes a student’s course of choice is only available on the “other” side of the border. In these circumstances it is important that every reasonable eVort is made by the education providers themselves, the funding bodies and local authorities to ensure that the student is able to exercise their choice. 22. The rules regarding funding of Wales-domiciled students in English colleges, and the transport available, are not clear. AoC recommends that the Westminster Government, in conjunction with the Welsh Assembly Government, uses the recent consultation document on the Machinery of Government changes to clarify the approach local authorities and the funding bodies should take to cross-border post-16 provision. March 2008
Supplementary memorandum submitted by the Association of Colleges I am writing to clarify the AoC written submission for your Committee’s inquiry into Cross-Border provision. Alun Michael MP highlighted paragraph 10 of our submission which stated the following: “The people who lose out from these rules and processes are Welsh-domiciled learners. English colleges are restricted in their ability to recruit and tailor their courses to local students, who are thereby pushed to study at Welsh colleges even if less convenient or less suitable. This applies in reverse to English domiciled learners who live close to Welsh colleges (for example near the Shropshire /Powys border)”. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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As colleges based in England side are unable to advertise their courses direct to potential learners over the border, Wales-domiciled learners may be unaware of the full range of options available. We do not have any specific evidence, other than anecdotal, of potential learners remaining to study in Wales because of a lack of information about courses in England. It would be diYcult to assess whether a student may have, in certain circumstances, taken an alternative course of action if they had been fully aware of all the options. We would argue, however, in order for student choice be maximised there needs to be a full range of information, advice and guidance available. We are pleased to note that, through Clause 66 of the Education and Skills Bill which is currently being considered by Parliament, a duty will be placed on schools to provide independent advice and guidance. We understand that this Clause applies to schools in England and Wales. Mr Michael also asked for figures to show the trend in numbers of Wales and England-domiciled learners studying on the “other” side of the border to allow for a direct comparison. The information AoC supplied to the Committee was taken from the Learning and Skills Council’s Individual Learner Record (ILR) whereas Vorwm’s figures came from the Welsh Assembly Government. AoC can only access the England ILR information already provided. Julian Gravatt Director of Funding and Development 26 June 2008
Memorandum submitted by The Right Reverend Anthony Priddis, MA, Dip Theol, FCEM, Bishop of Hereford
Education 1. You will be aware that Herefordshire has no university or institution of higher education within it. The University of Worcester, formed 18 months ago, looks to make some provision, including providing training for nurses in Hereford Hospital. As a consequence, people are unlikely in the main to come across the Welsh border into Herefordshire or indeed into South Shropshire for higher or further education. 2. The situation with regard to schools is of course quite diVerent and here there is movement in both directions according to where people live and local quality and reputation of primary and indeed secondary schools, together with crucial issues of transport which may well themselves be connected with where parents work if they are taking children to school themselves. Anthony Hereford 18 February 2008
Memorandum submitted by CardiV University
About Cardiff University CardiV University is a major international university. With its research-led mission, membership of the Russell Group, breadth and depth in learning and teaching, and capacity for wealth creation, it occupies a unique place within the diverse provision of higher education in Wales. Its vision is to be a world-leading university and its mission is to pursue research, learning and teaching of international distinction and impact. All of the University’s activities are directed to achieving the highest international standards in research, learning and teaching, pursued in a rich and varied research-led environment where all staV and students can achieve their full potential to the benefit of the wider community and society as a whole. The University aims to demonstrate the tangible benefits that an internationally recognised, research-intensive university brings to Wales and beyond and to make a significant and sustainable contribution to health, economy, education and culture for the needs and good of societies throughout the world.
The Global Nature of Higher Education In terms of higher education it is impossible to think in a Wales only context. Higher education is a global business. StaV and students are increasingly mobile and discerning and will follow quality and excellence wherever it is to be found. In addition to the 2,500 (approximately) international students from over 80 countries outside the EU, CardiV University also recruits a significant number of students from across the border in England. (Conversely a significant number of Welsh students travel to English HEIs). These students bring financial Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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benefits to the Welsh economy and friendships and networks can bear fruit in future years for the local economy in business partnerships and alumni suggesting or locating businesses in Wales or choosing to trade with Welsh partners. However, the global nature of higher education means that CardiV University is in direct competition with other higher education institutions from across the UK and beyond, in terms of the recruitment of high quality staV and students. Thus for Welsh higher education institutions (HEIs) to be successful players in this global market they must be aware of and responsive to the challenges it presents and guard against becoming an insular sector looking only at challenges within Wales. CardiV University has extensive research links with high quality institutions across the globe, including with other Russell Group institutions in England, building expertise and knowledge in collaborative initiatives and allowing students and staV access to exchange programmes. There is a great deal of potential for highly productive collaborations between CardiV and English HEIs but there are challenges in securing funding for such initiatives from the respective Funding Councils. There are often common interests and objectives across the UK and, as such, it would be helpful if the various administrations could consult and consider a common way forward. For example, the Research Assessment Exercise is a good example of where the UK HE sector needs to present itself as one and has so far done so. The University also provides a range of continuing education and professional development opportunities, and in particular, plays a leading role in the provision of continuing professional development for health and social care professionals to meet the medical, social and economic needs of Wales, the UK and beyond. In terms of the healthcare professions, provision crosses the border in many instances, and there is potential for diYculty here in terms of funding regimes.
Funding Issues
The global nature of higher education highlights some funding issues which could impact negatively on cross-border provision and collaboration. The UK government invests only 0.8% of GDP on HE compared to the OECD and EU average of 1.1%. Some EU countries have prioritised investment in HE to advance the development of their knowledge economies in the face of globalisation and Wales and the UK should aspire to the same goal. The European Commission has highlighted the role of HE in meeting the Lisbon targets for growth and jobs and has proposed a specific target of total private and public investment in HE of 2% of GDP. The Welsh Assembly Government provides funding via the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales (HEFCW) for core funding to cover learning, teaching and research. However, levels of overall public investment in HE in Wales currently lags well behind England and Scotland, not to mention key international competitors. The last analysis by HEFCW estimated a £41 million funding gap, based on 2004–05 data, between the HE sectors of Wales and England. We understand that HEFCW has updated this estimate for the Assembly, but we have not had sight of this report. HEIs in Wales are committed to helping Wales succeed in meeting the challenges of globalisation but, without a level playing field with England and Scotland, Welsh HEIs will lag behind their counterparts in the rest of the UK in contributing to the opportunities presented by globalisation. The Assembly sets out ambitious goals and targets for the HE sector and it is questionable whether these can be met within current resources. In order to secure the sustainable growth and development essential to support Wales’ needs, appropriate and suYcient resources must be made available to secure a vibrant and competitive HE sector able to compete with the very best in the UK and beyond. The sector in Wales is working with Higher Education Wales (HEW) to make a case for levels of funding that are commensurate with the public value that can be added by the sector. However, any eVorts by the Committee to draw key decision makers’ attention to this increasing deficiency in core university funding in Wales would be most welcome.
Fee Regimes
The divergence of the fee regimes across the UK also has the potential to adversely aVect cross-border provision of higher education. Whilst variable fees are in operation in both Wales and England, Welsh- domiciled students studying in Wales are entitled to an annual grant which considerably reduces the amount payable by the student. English-domiciled students are not entitled to such grants whether studying in England or Wales (even though other EU students are). It is likely that this will encourage more Welsh- domiciled students to study in Wales and also possible that there could be a negative impact on the number of English students applying to Welsh HEIs. English applicants may find the idea of paying more than their Welsh and EU counterparts for the same courses somewhat oV-putting. In addition there have been changes to the maintenance grant threshold in England leading to a greater rate of eligibility for English students. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Tuition fees will be reviewed in England in 2009 with the distinct possibility of the cap being raised allowing English HEIs to charge higher fees. The Welsh Assembly Government has stated that it will maintain existing fee levels up to and including 2009–10. Further divergence between the funding regimes of the countries has the potential to impact adversely on the cross-border flows of students as well as on the already significant funding gap between Wales and England. It is also worth noting that the recent reorganisation of Westminster Departments has resulted in the creation of the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills. This Department has responsibility for both the Higher Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE) and the Research Councils. Thus its remit covers both England, in respect of HEFCE and the UK, in respect of the Research Councils. This is something that the Welsh sector will need to remain aware of to ensure no detrimental virement of funds between these two remits.
Conclusion Higher education is increasingly a global business and CardiV University attracts students both from across the border in England as well as from across the globe. CardiV’s Russell Group status puts it in direct competition with English Russell Group institutions such as the University of Bristol and the University of Birmingham which are geographically quite close. However, as well as competition for staV and students there are also examples of collaboration and potential for further productive collaborations. The continued divergence of higher education policy, however, does present challenges. There are now diVerences in funding policies, fee regimes and governmental priorities and these all have the potential to have a negative impact on the cross-border aspect of higher education provision. March 2008
Memorandum submitted by CBI Cymru/Wales 1. The CBI welcomes the opportunity to respond to the Welsh AVairs Committee inquiry into cross- border public services in Wales. 2. The CBI deals principally with cross-sector issues which aVect the business environment in which all companies operate. The CBI’s strength lies in its breadth of membership, which includes companies of every size, including over 200 trade associations and academic institutions, and from all sectors of the economy— manufacturing, construction, retailing, financial services, e-commerce, leisure, transport and so on. The CBI represents companies employing about 50% of the private sector workforce in Wales. 3. This paper is intended to summarise CBI Wales’ positions on some current cross-border business issues; they are the policy making process, public services, climate change, planning and higher education.
Non-devolved Services in Wales 4. The advent of the Welsh Assembly Government has led to businesses having a closer and more open relationship with policy and decision makers; this is to be welcomed. However, a great number of non- devolved services remain the responsibility of Whitehall and Westminster and their delivery is critical for the continued growth of the Welsh economy. 5. Even with the Welsh Assembly Government, there remains a need for Whitehall and Westminster to ensure that the services within their remit are delivered eYciently and eVectively within and throughout Wales, meeting the challenges Wales presents. 6. Incorporating the perspective of businesses that operate in Wales within the earliest stages of policy development remains an important aspect of any successful UK government proposal. Deferring to the expertise of the Welsh Assembly Government should not always be the assumed course of action for Whitehall and Westminster when developing non-devolved policy proposals or considering requests for the transfer of legislative competence. 7. Where policies diverge there ought to be greater joint working to ensure both parties make clear to businesses operating in Wales the diVerent funding and administrative arrangements being put in place. We endorse the committee’s recommendation that “policy developed in England and Wales should be ‘border proofed’ in order to ensure that policy developed within one jurisdiction does not have unintended consequences for patients in another”. We would extent that health-care related principle to policies that impact on the business environment. 8. There should be no reluctance from either Whitehall or the Welsh Assembly Government to learn from policy best practice in any nation or region of the United Kingdom. Businesses will invariably locate in the part of the UK which oVers the most attractive business environment. Learning from each nation or region needs to be better integrated into the policy making processes that impact on Wales. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Public Service Delivery 9. CBI Wales is committed to strong public services that promote social justice while remaining economically eYcient and aVordable. 10. Based on the private sector’s experience in responding to customers’ needs, we believe that the future of public service provision in Wales lies in a mixed economy, with public, private and voluntary providers all making a contribution and working in partnership. 11. Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) have been successful in improving eYciency and service quality. However, the challenge is to create the right environment for PPPs to flourish—PPPs need strong political will, the right commissioning skills and a fair market for suppliers to operate. Wales has benefited from more flexible and innovative non-devolved public services. In non-devolved areas such as criminal justice the role of the private sector has grown and delivered benefits for users, employees and the state. 12. In devolved services however Wales has a growing “infrastructure gap” where funding for capital projects has not grown to the same extent as in England. The result is Wales has no “schools for the future” programme, no large road building programme etc. If action is not taken to address these issues the long- term result for businesses is likely to be the emergence of financial, social and logistical disincentives to operating in Wales. 13. Further consideration about how the public and private sectors can collaborate more closely to deliver types of PPP projects is also needed and greater cross-border working between Whitehall and the Welsh Assembly Government would certainly assist that process.
Climate Change 14. The CBI’s landmark climate change task force report—“Climate Change: everyone’s business” called for radical UK and EU joint action to reduce emissions. The Task Force—representing over five million employees—is now engaged in a challenging three year plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, invest in renewables, work with government and consumers to change behaviour and bring low-carbon products and services to the market to make behavioural change easier and to reduce the time lag for return on investment to enable many more companies to invest in green technologies. 15. At the same time, some Welsh Assembly Government policy proposals run the risk of putting additional Wales-only burdens on categories of businesses that are already harshly exposed to tough global competition. Many of these manufacturing companies have also long invested in reducing emissions and are already signed up to further tough EU emission reduction targets. The result is many have already reduced their emissions significantly and have signed up to joint-EU action for further long-term reductions. The consequences for companies of additional Wales-only annual 3% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions being over and above UK Climate Bill need to be understood.
Higher Education 16. A clear consequence of devolution is the possibility of divergent decisions on funding for higher education. However, we believe the current £61 million investment gap between the Higher Education sector in Wales and England must be addressed. 17. Higher education (HE) is vital in supplying the economy with graduate and postgraduate skills and engaging in research and development partnerships with business. While HE is as yet performing well, Wales cannot hope to fully achieve a “knowledge driven economy” with an underfunded HE sector. It is almost inevitable that underfunding will lead to Wales falling behind EU nations and greatly undermining this major driver to a knowledge economy. It will be extremely diYcult to rectify this at a later stage. Action must be taken immediately.
The Planning System 18. For many businesses in Wales, planning is a vitally important issue. In cross-border transport infrastructure it is a policy area where the Welsh Assembly Government and Whitehall could significantly improve people’s quality of life, better connect communities and enhance the contribution of renewable energy by reforming the planning system. 19. There are a number of strategic challenges for the planning system that require a systemic review. Climate change, energy and infrastructure needs will place an unprecedented burden on the planning system. Early action is needed to ensure it is fit for purpose to handle the coming challenges. This has been recognised by the UK government which has taken action by introducing Planning Bill reforms and instigated the “Pretty and Killian Review” into planning applications. The Welsh Assembly Government has yet to do likewise. A more eYcient and eVective English planning system will be a strong draw for future business investment. Early action to improve Wales’ planning system is needed. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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20. All countries within the UK will need to undertake an unprecedented amount of investment across all its core infrastructure networks over the coming decades. Capacity across the UK’s infrastructure networks is being stretched due to increased demand resulting from a period of sustained economic growth. Many core infrastructure facilities, particularly in the energy sector, also need upgrading or replacing. 21. Without a more expeditious decision-making process there is a real risk that the UK will develop an infrastructure deficit which will pass damaging costs onto the economy, undermine our ability to achieve a number of environmental objectives and have a detrimental impact on peoples’ quality of life. The Infrastructure Planning Commission (IPC) is set to attempt to tackle infrastructure needs by speeding up the process. In contrast, in Wales there are no current plans to introduce similar systemic reforms to speed up Wales’ planning system. 22. The result of these policy choices may be a growing disparity between the planning system in England and Wales. Where England’s planning system will be faster and more responsive, delivering early decisions on vital infrastructure projects, Wales’ planning system could remain largely unchanged. If planning in Wales becomes slower and less responsive than England’s system there is a danger that this will create a disincentive for businesses to operate in Wales.
Conclusion 23. With regard to cross border service provision, be it in transport infrastructure or in education, there is a growing need for greater strategic co-ordination to plan and deliver better public services. The nature of devolution is likely to result in growing diVerences in key components of the business environment- planning, higher education services and public services. This is understood as a natural consequence of devolution. However key elements of our infrastructure need to be planned cross-border. And companies operate cross-border, and use services cross-border. As the Welsh Assembly Government gains more and wider primary law making powers, there is a growing need to ensure such diVerences do not become barriers to current and future businesses that operate in Wales. July 2008
Memorandum submitted by the Children’s Commissioner for Wales The Children’s Commissioner for Wales is an independent children’s rights institution in line with the Paris Principles. The Commissioner’s remit covers all areas of the devolved powers of the National Assembly for Wales insofar as they aVect children’s rights and welfare. Evidence in this submission will not necessarily deal with issues aVecting adults.
1. Further Education Provision 1.1 Specialist post-16 education placements are commissioned for a small number of learners with learning diYculties and/or disabilities on a cross border basis. These placements are made for those learners whose needs cannot be met on a day to day basis in any of the 25 FE institutions in Wales. These placements are identified by a number of professionals. Great care is needed when placing these young people in specialist residential placements. The Children’s Commissioner for Wales is concerned about the involvement of the young people in the planning of these placements and how the young people’s welfare is safeguarded in these placements by Welsh local authorities or the Welsh Assembly Government. Given the special needs of learners, there needs to be a clear commitment to ensuring the quality not only of the learning experience but also the pastoral elements of the specialist educational placements. 1.2 We are aware that these placements can cause considerable disruption within families and that, although there are appeal mechanisms in place, these may be not be available to children and young people. Through discussions with the Welsh Assembly Government we have been notified of plans to amend the appeals procedure to allow children and young people themselves to raise an appeal to the Special Educational Needs Tribunal for Wales (SENTW) and would welcome a similar policy change in other areas of children’s services. 1.3 Estyn’s7 evidence to the Additional Learning Needs Legislative Competence Order of the National Assembly for Wales highlights a number of other issues for post-16 learners. Of particular concern are the statements at paragraph 21 about the lack of guidance for post-16 learners and the diYculties around the transfer of records leading to disruption of the young person’s education and the statement about the lack of access to transport at paragraph 27.
7 Proposed Additional Learning Needs LCO Committee—The National Assembly for Wales (Legislative Competence) Order 2007 Response to consultation Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector for Education and Training in Wales http://www.assemblywales.org/bus-home/bus-committees/bus-committees-third-assem/bus-committees-third-aln-home/ bus-committees-third-aln-agendas.htm?act%dis&id%60175&ds%11/2007 Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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1.4 Post-16 providers 21. The lack of a statutory framework and supporting guidance for post-16 learners with additional learning needs hinders the process of transition from school to further education, training or employment. Careers oYcers help pupils with SEN to gain access to post-16 provision that is appropriate for their needs. However, schools and LEAs do not normally pass on pupils’ records, statutory assessments or statements to post-16 providers. As a result, post-16 providers often have to make a fresh start with assessments, leading to delays in providing the necessary support. 22. Estyn produced reports in 2004 and 2005 on provision for learners with additional learning needs in further education (FE) colleges and work based learning companies. 23. These two reports highlighted many ways in which going to FE college makes a positive diVerence to the lives of young people with additional learning needs. However, there were also some shortcomings, including the limited opportunities for progression within or from FE for learners with severe or profound learning diYculties, the lack of support for challenging behaviour and limited access to specialist mental health services. 24. Overall, the main focus in work-based learning is on immediate programme outcomes, such as securing employment or a qualification, with less attention paid to learners’ other needs. 25. Few learners with additional learning needs progress from college to work-based learning or employment. Many of these learners need much more support to enable them to use public transport because they lack the skill and confidence to travel independently. 26. By extending the scope of legislation to education and training for “all persons”, irrespective of age, the proposed order will open the way for improving transition arrangements from school to other providers. 27. It is, however, very important to recognise that lack of access to transport is a major barrier to equality of access to education and training for learners with additional learning needs and disabilities.
Memorandum submitted by the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills (DIUS)
Summary
1. This Memorandum provides the Government’s views on the cross-border issues in the field of Further and Higher Education. It sets out: — the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills (DIUS) mission to create a world class skills based economy through investment and reform in the sector; — the policies and arrangements to deliver this in England and how, following devolution, there are similarities with or divergence from Wales; — the success of our policies and the nature and extent of their impact on cross border flows; and — the mechanisms in place for consultation, joint planning and collaboration between Governments, institutions and partners at all levels; and highlights future arrangements for the delivery of Further and Higher Education (F&HE) in England.
Introduction
2. The creation of the new Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills (DIUS), in the Machinery of Government changes in June 2007, provides the opportunity to focus policies and funding to widen access to and increase participation in F&HE to raise skills levels; generate world class research and innovation and develop an improved partnership and engagement with employers to meet the challenges of the 21st century: Britain can only succeed in a rapidly changing world if we develop the skills of our people to the fullest possible extent, carry out world class research and scholarship and apply both knowledge and skills to create an innovative and competitive economy. The DIUS mission is to work with our partners to meet these challenges. (DIUS Mission) 3. The importance of an eVective F&HE system remains at the heart of the Government’s strategy for the long term development economic and social success of Britain. 4. The report of Sir Sandy Leitch on UK skills needs (Prosperity for all in the global economy—World Class Skills) set out the challenge to which the government responded in the Leitch Implementation Plan. The new economic mission required for colleges and the FE sector to boost workforce skills is the key theme Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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of the Government’s White Paper Further Education: Raising Skills, Improving Life Chances March 2007. And in April this year we published, Higher Education at Work—High Skills: High value a consultation document which describes a strategy to achieve growth in high skills (Level 4 and above). 5. It is within this context that the Memorandum considers the cross border issues post devolution in F&HE in the areas of: — student recruitment and retention; — student finance; — research funding; and — institutional engagement with employers on both sides of the border.
Devolution
6. Devolution operates diVerently in diVerent areas. Institutional funding and student finance are devolved; research is funded through the Science budget and employment is co-ordinated by DWP. England and Wales have pursued policies to meet their specific skills and economic goals. In F&HE, and while there are many similarities, devolution has provided the power for customisation and therefore increasing divergence. 7. HE student support policy in England is delivered through the local authorities and the Student Loans Company. Most student support functions were devolved to the Welsh Assembly Government in 2006 and are similarly delivered by the local authorities in Wales and the SLC. 8. Formal liaison on student finance exists through the Quadrilateral meetings between DIUS oYcials and the Devolved Administrations. Meetings are held three times a year, to discuss areas of overlap and mutual interest in relation to Higher Education Student finance, including governance, funding and capacity of the SLC. The role of Chair is rotated between the four countries. DIUS also co-ordinates the Key Performance Indicators agreed by each Administration with the SLC. In addition, there is informal liaison between oYcials to share policy decisions on the student support package and protocols regarding communications strategies. 9. The UK is treated as one nation in the European Court, therefore elements of student finance relating to EU students and UK residency are not devolved. All four UK countries have to agree to the same provisions. DIUS leads on this and works with colleagues in the Devolved Administrations to secure agreement when changes are required. Other mechanisms are established for collaboration and consultation to deal with specific issues as they arise. eg consultation with the Welsh Assembly Government on the proposals for the Sale of Student Loan Debt Bill, currently going through Parliament. 10. The Learning and Skills Council (LSC) has responsibility for the planning, commission and funding of post-16 education and training (excluding HE) in England. The LSC delivers in line with its annual Grant Letter from the Secretary of State. The Welsh Assembly Government (WAG) plans and commissions FE in Wales. The LSC has regular contact with all DAs on a range of diVerent policy areas. For example, on FE learner support, the LSC has regular contact with all DAs every six months at which they discuss policy; and they also have ad hoc informal contact with their Welsh counterparts. 11. DIUS and the LSC liaise with the Devolved Administrations on policy areas that have UK wide implications ie the 14–19 agenda, qualifications reforms and the implementation of the Leitch reform, where both countries are developing similar policies, but targeted to their particular needs. The establishment of Lifelong Learning Networks (LLNs) which promote progression from further education to higher education have supported access to and provision of, cross-border programmes. 12. UK-wide responsibility for science and research through the seven Research Councils rests with DIUS. Institutional funding generally is devolved; and since the Further and Higher Education Act 1992, has been through each of the four UK Funding bodies. In England, the Higher Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE) and in Wales the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales (HEFCW). The section on research funding in this Memorandum outlines the system of research funding in the UK which operates in partnership with the UK Funding Bodies, the Research Councils and a range of collaborative initiatives. However, the funding of research follows the “Haldane principle” and it is appropriate for DIUS to be involved in strategic decisions about support for science through the annual Grant Letter to HEFCE, but not in decisions about support to individual projects. 13. One of the key components of the Government Public Service Reform is that “Devolution and delegation to the front line is required to design and deliver eVective services”. The devolution of education and skills is a part of this wider Government strategy. In many areas similar policies and products exist but diVer in the way they are applied. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Student Recruitment and Retention
Higher Education
Recruitment 14. The Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) publicise and market their course provision. The applications process for full time undergraduates is managed on a UK-wide basis by the Universities and Colleges Admissions System (UCAS). 15. Since 2003, acceptances from students domiciled in England to UK Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) have risen by 10.8%. However there was a large increase to 301,798 in 2005 (from 277,079 in 2004), followed by a fall in 2006 to 289,229. The size of the increase in 2005 and subsequent fall in 2006 is generally agreed to have been mainly due to a proportion of students seeking to gain places at HEIs prior to the introduction of variable fees in 2006. 16. There has been a large increase in numbers of full time undergraduates in 2007 to 307,000, the highest ever. Early indication from UCAS data for 2008–09 indicates a continued rise in numbers. The evidence does not suggest students are being put oV by the introduction of variable tuition fees in 2006–07 as many predicted. 17. The numbers of students from Wales attending full time undergraduate courses in the UK has been rising steadily over the same period: from 16,276 in 2003 to 17,366 in 2007—an overall increase of 6.7%.
Cross border flows 18. In 2007–08, 8,483 English applicants were accepted to Welsh HEIs. Whilst this outnumbers the Welsh domiciled students in English HEIs it represents a smaller proportion (3%) of the total number of English students studying anywhere in the UK. 96% of students from England study in England. This has remained a fairly constant proportion. 19. By comparison 5,306 (31%) of Welsh domiciled undergraduates accepted places at English HEIs in 2007. The numbers of Welsh domiciled students studying in England has fallen since 2006 while those staying in Wales have increased from 60% to 69% between 2003 and 2007. The reasons for students’ choice of study are complex and influenced by a range of factors. However the introduction by the Welsh Assembly of a fee grant in 2007 to oVset the introduction of the increased fees in Welsh HEIs for Welsh students studying in Wales is likely to be a significant factor in the decrease in students going elsewhere in the UK. This is a matter for the Welsh Assembly Government. DIUS does not see any negative issues in the current patterns of study, but would certainly want to keep an eye on any significant trends in the longer term. 20. The flow between England and Wales is much greater than from either country to Scotland or Northern Ireland.
Retention 21. Student retention rates in the UK compare very well internationally. The UK ranks 5th in the OECD for first degree completion rates, out of 23 countries who report data in this area. A university education is now open to more students than ever before and the Government is totally committed to providing opportunities for all people to achieve their potential and to maximise their talent. 22. In 2005–06, the completion rate of 78% in HEIs in England was slightly higher than at HEIs in Wales, 77%. Fewer students from English HEIs leave university without any award (14%), compared with 16% in Welsh universities. Retention rates by country of domicile are not available. 23. These latest figures are before the introduction of variable fees in England in 2006–07 and (the increased tuition fee rate) in Wales from 2007–08. Failure to complete degree courses is triggered by a range of factors including financial, academic and personal reasons. The Government welcomes measures that HEIs and partners put in place to support students experiencing diYculties which might aVect the successful completion of their study.
Widening Participation
Aimhigher 24. Widening participation in higher education and fair access are key elements of the Government’s strategy. Following the 2003 HE White Paper: “The Future of Higher Education” Aimhigher became operative as a national outreach programme in August 2004, working most intensively in disadvantaged areas, to increase the number of young people who have the abilities, qualifications and aspirations to benefit from HE. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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25. Aimhigher works alongside other measures to widen participation, such as HEFCE’s widening participation allocation, the OYce for Fair Access (OFFA), and the maintenance grant for students from poorer backgrounds. In 2007, Ministers announced that Aimhigher would continue until at least 2011. 26. The evidence shows that young people from disadvantaged backgrounds are getting more places. Latest published UCAS figures show that for those applicants aged 18 or under from England, the proportion who are from the lower four socio-economic groups has risen from 28.7% to 29.4% in 2007–08.
Reaching Higher 27. Reaching Higher is the Welsh Assembly Government’s 10 year strategy for a competitive and sustainable higher education sector in Wales. The Welsh Assembly Government has a target in conjunction with HEFCW to work the Communities First areas (of greatest disadvantage) to widen access to higher education. Welsh colleagues report that the success of their policy, with a growing number of people from the Communities First areas accessing higher education.
Part time students 28. The number of students in England who are undertaking part-time undergraduate courses rose from 313,045 in 1997–98 to 420,195 in 2005–06 (an increase of 34% over the period). HEIs are increasingly oVering greater flexibility in the mode of study. Recent research commissioned by DIUS showed that working adults hold a generally positive attitude towards HE and 30% would consider applying to university if the circumstances were right. (University is Not Just for Young People: Working Adults’ Perceptions of and Orientation to Higher Education). 29. 70% of the 2020 workforce is already beyond the age of compulsory education. To achieve the ambitions of the Leitch review to develop world class skills means we need to develop higher skill levels amongst the current workforce. The traditional full-time university attendance model is not likely to attract either employees or employers because of the time needed away from work, family and the costs involved. Therefore in future part-time study will play an increasing part in achieving the Leitch ambitions by flexible techniques such as bite–sized learning opportunities, flexible timetables and innovative teaching approaches such as e-learning and learning in the workplace. 30. Latest figures available show that in 2006–07 of 454,315 English domiciled part time undergraduate students studying in the UK 6,125 (13.5%) attended HEIs in Wales. (Figures based on a HESA Standard Registration Population basis).
Further Education
Adult Student Recruitment and Retention 31. Provision for adults and employers operates on more of a demand led basis, where funding follows the learner. (14–19 provision is covered in paragraphs 133–147.) 32. The FE sector includes a number of diVerent types of colleges: General FE; Sixth Form; Agriculture and Horticulture; Art, Design and Performing Arts and Specialist and Tertiary Colleges. In the academic year 2006–07 these totalled 378, with 199 falling in the General FE category. The number of learners aged 19 and over in General and Tertiary FE Colleges in 2006–07 was 2,060,600. 33. The outcome of learners in FE is measured in terms of retention (the number of starters who complete their programme of learning); achievement (the number of completers who achieve their qualification aim; and success (numbers of starters who achieve their qualification aim). The LSC sets targets for colleges by type and by level. 34. In 2006–07 the average rates for retention (87%), achievement (89%) and success (78%) were similar to 2005–06. The LSC learner surveys do not diVerentiate learners’ country of origin within the UK so it is not possible to analyse participation and outcomes in relation to learners from Wales against those from England.
Cross border flows 35. There is some localised data which suggests, as we would expect, that cross border study is likely to be significant in some border counties. Data from the Hereford and Worcestershire Lifelong Learning Network show: — at March 2008 there were 745 Welsh students studying FE or HE in English institutions; — Hereford College of Technology having the most (460), followed by University of Worcester (139) and Hereford Sixth Form College (87); and Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:08 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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— the remaining institutions had much smaller numbers. 36. This is a snapshot from one area, but generally, we have not identified any particular issues in this area in relation to those living on or near the Welsh border.
Student Finance 37. Finance should not be a barrier to taking a higher education course. Since 2006–07 universities in England can charge full time tuition fees up to an agreed cap (£3,145 in 2008–09); but no student or their parents have to find their tuition fees either before or during their studies. The student finance package is designed to ensure that all those who have the ability and wish to go on to higher education can do so and that those from low income backgrounds get the help they need. 38. The support package is based on a combination of grants and loans. The total estimated cost in 2007–08 is: grants £918 million; and maintenance and tuition fee loans £903 million.
Higher Education
Eligibility 39. Broadly speaking England and Wales currently have the same eligibility rules, based on residency, immigration and nationality criteria. Students apply to their country of ordinary residence for their student support package, wherever in the UK they choose to study. 40. Currently eligibility checks and assessment of applications are undertaken by the local authorities and the SLC.
Full time student support 41. There are four main elements for Students entering HE on/after 1 September 2006: 1. Fee loan: to meet full costs of variable fees—up to £3,145. This is available to all eligible students and is paid direct to the HEI. 2. Maintenance loan: 3 rates depending on where they are studying. (25% is subject to means-test). 3. Maintenance grants (re-introduced in 2006–07): up to £2,835 in 2008–09. (i) New entrants in 2008–09: Full amount available to those with household incomes up to £25,000, partial grants for household income of £60,005. (ii) New entrants in 2006–07 or 2007–08: full amount available to those with household incomes up to £18,360, partial grants up to household income of £39,305. 4. Extra targeted support: (i) Disabled student allowances—(non means tested) are available to help meet the additional costs of study incurred by disabled students. (ii) Child care grant—(means tested) annual maximum for one child is £7,735 and for two or more children £13,260. (iii) Adult dependent grant—(means tested) worth up to £2,510 (£2,575 in 2008–09). (iv) Parents Learning Allowance—(means tested) worth up to £1,435 (£1,470 in 2008–09). 42. In addition a minimum university bursary of £310 (in 2008–09) is available to students in receipt of the full maintenance grant and who have taken out a maintenance loan from the SLC. Universities who wish to charge the variable fee produce an Access Agreement, which outlines its bursary structure and has to be approved by the OYce for Fair Access (OFFA). Most universities oVer more than the minimum amount and also have a range of other bursaries based on diVerent criteria. 43. Students may also apply for support from the Access to Learning Fund, a university-administered fund for students experiencing financial hardship. Student parents may also be eligible to receive Child Tax Credit from the Inland Revenue.
Support in Wales 44. Currently there are two main diVerences between England and Wales. The first is the introduction in Wales in 2007–08 of a tuition fee grant of (£1,890 in 2008–09) that only Welsh students studying in Wales receive. This was introduced in 2007–08 along with the increase in their tuition fees to the England cap. This is aimed at encouraging more Welsh students to study in Wales. 45. The second is that the increased income thresholds for the maintenance grants, which will come into eVect for English students studying anywhere in the UK in 2008–09 will not be applicable in Wales. The Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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income thresholds for all students in Wales have been uprated for inflation only and will be at the same levels as English students starting their course in 2006–07 or 2007–08. 46. There are two future improvements in the English student support package which the Welsh Assembly is not proposing to follow. The first is that English domiciled students that receive an Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) will in the future be given a guarantee of the support available to them if they choose to proceed into higher education. 47. The second is that students who take out their first loan in or after September 2008, and enter repayment in or after April 2012, will be eligible for a “repayment holiday”; and will have the choice of putting their student loan repayments on hold for up to five years. This will be of benefit to graduates at times of particular need, for example when buying a property or starting a family.
Take Up Rates 48. In the 2006–07 academic year 33% of English domiciled students applying for some form of support received full Maintenance Grants, 23% received partial grants, 43% received no grant. In the same year 33% of Welsh domiciled students received a full Assembly Learning Grant, 29% a partial grant, 38% no grant. 49. The Government wants to ensure that all students eligible for a maintenance grant apply for one. DIUS oYcials have worked with the SLC, the OYce for Fair Access, HEIs and the National Union of Students to increase take-up. One measure has been a change in the student support application form requiring applicants to “opt out” of data sharing information about household income in order that the SLC may follow up cases and to enable the HEIs to contact eligible students who do not apply for a Bursary. 50. Provisional 2006–07 figures show that the average maintenance loan taken out by new entrants in that year was £3,360 for English domiciled, £3,210 for Welsh domiciled. The average tuition fee loan was £2,730 for English domiciled, and £1,720 for Welsh domiciled.
Repayment 51. Income Contingent Repayment (ICR) loans replaced the mortgage style loans for students taking out a Government student loan for the first time in September 1998. ICR currently operates the same way across England and Wales. Repayment is partially reserved and administered on behalf of the four UK Administrations by the SLC and HMRC through the PAYE or Self Assessment Tax system. 52. Repayment starts the April after borrowers finish (or leave) their course and in any month that their salary exceeds £1,250 gross per month (£288 per week or £15,000 per annum equivalent). Repayments are collected at the rate of 9% of any income over the threshold. These arrangements are the same in England and Wales.
Part time students 53. In England and Wales, part-time undergraduate students who take less than twice as long as their full-time equivalents to complete their course are able to apply for a means-tested Fee Grant and a Course Grant to assist with course related costs. 54. In addition to HEIs’ own marketing information, DIUS publishes a yearly guide entitled “Guide to financial support for part-time students in higher education” which is specifically tailored for people considering part-time study.
Course Grant 55. In 2008–09 part-time students will be able to apply for assistance with course related costs worth up to £255 in England (£1,050 in Wales) a year on top of the fee grant.
Fee Grant 56. In 2008–09 there will be three diVerent rates of fee grant depending on the intensity of the course. The total amount that can be awarded to a Welsh-domiciled student, depending on his/her individual circumstances is potentially greater than that available to English-domiciled counterparts (subject to eligibility of additional targeted support). Part time disabled students in both countries have access to individually assessed Disabled Students’ Allowance. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Targeted Grants (in Wales) 57. From September 2008 eligible part-time, Welsh-domiciled students will also be able to access targeted support which is currently available only to full time undergraduates; this will be provided through a pro- rated version (reflecting intensity of study) of the Childcare Grant, Adult Dependants’ Grant, and Parents’ Learning Allowance. Part time students in England are not eligible for targeted support other than the Disabled Students Allowance.
Student Income and Expenditure Survey (SIES) 58. The SIES is a periodic survey of full and part time student income and expenditure survey, debt, savings and financial hardship and a range of personal information which enabled an overall assessment to be made of the experiences of students with diVerent characteristics and backgrounds. The last survey was in 2004–05 and was jointly commissioned by DIUS and the Welsh Assembly Government. The numbers of Welsh students interviewed was small (300 out of the total 3,700 in 2004–07). 59. The sample for the 2007–08 survey has been extended to include a larger number of Welsh students around—700. As a result it should be possible to make an improved assessment of the financial circumstances of Welsh domiciled students who study in England or Wales. The final report will be published in early 2009.
Administration of Student Finance—The Student Loans Company (SLC) 60. Currently, the SLC administration of Student Finance Wales diVers from the Student Finance England service in the following ways. 61. SLC administers both FE and HE student finance in Wales. This enables an easier transition into higher education. (For example, HE students do not have to re-evidence their personal identities when they apply to higher education if they have already done so). 62. The discretionary service SLC provides to universities for the administration of bursaries works in the same way across Wales and England, except that Wales partially fund the on-going service costs and there is some use of the national support service for publicising Welsh university bursaries. 63. All customer-facing services in Wales are provided in both English and Welsh languages.
Customer First 64. Following a wide ranging end to end review of the Student Finance in England in 2005, Ministers agreed to a major change programme to transform the Student Finance system. 65. From September 2009 the SLC will take responsibility for the delivery of the total student finance system in England. Local authorities’ role will be phased out as they no longer have responsibility of the assessment of new students. The development of Customer First is on the agenda of the Quadrilateral meetings and DIUS and the Devolved Authorities will monitor progress.
Student Finance Information 66. DIUS is committed to deliver the right message to the right people at the right time. To ensure we deliver on this objective an annual Communications strategy and Delivery Plan is developed with and agreed by Ministers. DIUS fully utilise the directgov website for all our “e-comms”. A multi media campaign on the new student finance package was launched in October 2007. 67. When providing Student Finance information in England, detail on the charges made by Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland institutions is included. This is important to students in England who may wish to study there. 68. Plans for advertising campaigns and general dissemination of student finance information is shared with the Devolved Administrations via the Quadrilateral meetings. Since devolution of student finance arrangements to Wales, DIUS continues to hold informal meetings with communications colleagues in Wales. 69. There is mutual agreement that cross border communications should be avoided. We work hard to ensure this and brief our contractors and delivery partners. However there is an inevitable risk of cross border information, (for instance, when using radio and TV advertising). On an operational level, we like to know what each other is doing, to prevent nationwide campaigns running simultaneously. 70. Communications are subject to a programme of research and evaluation to ensure our messages are delivered eVectively. Findings feed into future campaigns. 2006–07 findings show that: 86% of students and 79% of parents understand that financial help is available; and 77% of students and 78% of parents understand that repayment is income contingent and know the repayment thresholds. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Sale of Loans Bill 71. The Government is currently taking a Bill through Parliament which will give it the power to sell some of the student loans book. This is not a privatisation, but will enable a programme of sales of the student loan book, in order to transfer the risk associated with ownership of a large and growing asset from the public sector to the private sector. Monies gained from any sales of the Loan Book are expected to transfer to the Treasury. 72. The sale of student loans will make no diVerence to the terms and conditions for individual borrowers. Repayment rates and thresholds will remain the same for all loans, whether sold or unsold. The loan system will continue to be administered by the SLC. 73. Following engagement with Welsh colleagues by DIUS oYcials the Bill will include a clause that will give Welsh Ministers enabling powers to sell loans (for which they are already responsible) when they deem it appropriate to use these powers. It is anticipated that the Bill will receive Royal Assent in July. 74. We are aware that the Welsh Assembly Government is undertaking a review of its student finance system. DIUS is pleased to assist and oYcials will be meeting with the consultancy team.
Further Education
Student Finance 75. Financial support for learners in further education is intended to overcome financial barriers to learning which otherwise might discourage people from taking up learning. 76. The LSC has reciprocal arrangements with the funding councils for Wales and for colleges and providers close to the borders. However, it is not expected that colleges and providers in England will recruit entire groups of learners from outside their local area. Such learners should be referred to the possibility of a distance learning or Ufi programme delivered by their local provider or hub in Wales or Scotland. If the learning programme is not available through this route, permission to enrol the learners must be sought from the provider’s LSC partnership team. 77. In England, there are three main programmes of Government sponsored financial support for adults engaging in non HE based learning, which are in addition to the level 2 or level 3 entitlement and any relief from course fees that may be applied initially by further education providers: — discretionary Learner Support Funds. — Adult Learning Grant. — Career Development Loan. discretionary Learner Support Funds (dLSF) 78. dLSFs are the main source of financial support for students in further education who need help with additional costs associated with their learning such as books, travel and childcare. Funds are allocated to colleges and targeted at those experiencing the greatest financial diYculty and in priority groups such as low skilled and low income individuals. 79. Reciprocal arrangements exist between Wales and England, so that Welsh students attending colleges in England would be eligible to receive dLSF; this is true also for English students attending Welsh FE institutions.
Adult Learning Grant (ALG) 80. ALG is specifically aimed at those on low incomes undertaking full time learning and is not available to those who are on “out of work” benefits. It is intended to boost participation and improve retention. 81. It oVers up to £30pw to adults on low incomes studying full-time and undertaking their first full level 2 or level 3 qualifications. It is available for up to two years but can be extended to three years for learners progressing from level 2 to level 3. 82. To be eligible for the grant, learners must have been resident in England for three years prior to starting their course. Welsh learners, studying in England, who meet the residency criteria are eligible to apply. However, discussions with colleagues in the Welsh Assembly (Student Finance Division, Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning & Skills) have confirmed that it would be diYcult to set up any reciprocal arrangements as an equivalent (or even similar) scheme to ALG does not exist in Wales. 83. 16 learners have been rejected on the grounds of being resident in Wales (to March 08). Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Career Development Loans (CDLs) 84. CDLs is a Britain wide Government subsidised programme which operates fully in Wales. CDLs were set up in 1988 and provide interest-deferred bank loans to help individuals finance vocational learning of their choice. The programme aims to: increase the numbers undertaking vocational learning; encourage more individuals to take responsibility for their own learning; and encourage financial institutions to view learning as an investment worthy of a loan. 85. 3.8% of CDL learners are undertaking learning with learning providers based in Wales. This equates to £2,705,241 in loans. In 2007/08, 295 new loans were issued to learners with Wales-based learning providers. The total value of loans for these learners was £1,817,153. 3.6% of the total defaults for 2007–08 are attributable to learners with Wales-based providers with a value of £674,406.
Sixth Form College Childcare Scheme 86. There is also the Sixth Form College Childcare Scheme which oVers help to learners aged 20 or over in school sixth forms and sixth form colleges, who incur essential childcare costs whilst attending their course. Payments are income assessed and the maximum amount payable to cover childcare and associated travel costs is £155 per week per child. Eligibility requires that learners must be attending a full-time or a part-time LSC funded course, be ordinarily resident in England and have a dependent child under 15 years of age (16 for children with disabilities) for whom the learner provides care. 87. The place of study must be in England and the learner must be “ordinarily resident in England”. However, this does not preclude a Welsh learner from applying if they are studying in England and such applications would be considered on a case by case basis. No such applications have been received. There is no similar scheme in Wales and no reciprocal arrangements exist. We do not have any data on numbers of Welsh students who have been refused help on the grounds of their residency.
Research Funding
Research 88. Pursuing global excellence in research and knowledge; accelerating the commercial exploitation of creativity and knowledge and encouraging better use of science in Government are three of DIUS’s Strategic objectives. Research in England is of high quality. In the last Research Assessment Exercise, over half of the departments were rated 5 or 5*. And at UK level, the research base is second in the world, behind the United States. There is much to build on. 89. Research in UK universities is funded by means of the dual support system. One stream is through Quality Related (QR) funding from the UK Funding Bodies and the second is through the 7 Research Councils.
Quality Related Research 90. QR funding by the relevant UK Funding Bodies is based on the periodic Research Assessment Exercise (RAE) and provides core funding to support research infrastructure and build capacity for HEIs’ own determined and “blue skies” research. HEFCE QR research funding for 2008–09 is £1,460 million. HEFCW QR funding for research is £67.3 million. 91. The Government announced in March 2006 its intention to replace the RAE after 2008 with an assessment system based on metrics. Following consultation HEFCE is working with the other UK Funding Bodies and partners to develop these new arrangements—the Research Excellence Framework (REF). The REF will be introduced after the 2008 Research Assessment Exercise (RAE). 92. The REF will be developed as a single unified framework for the UK throughout 2008 and 2009. Aspects of the framework will be phased in from 2011–12, and it will fully drive research funding for all disciplines from 2014. It will make greater use of quantitative indicators in the assessment of research quality than the present system, while taking account of key diVerences between the diVerent disciplines. Assessment will combine quantitative indicators—including bibliometric indicators wherever these are appropriate—and light-touch expert review.
Research Councils 93. The second stream of funding is through the seven Research Councils which operate on a UK wide basis. The newest Council, the Arts and Humanities Research Council, was established though the Higher Education Act, 2004, bringing together smaller bodies in the four Administrations. DIUS provides funding to the Research Councils through the Science Budget. Its role is to oversee the Research Councils in undertaking the funding of high quality research against the priorities agreed in each Council’s Delivery Plan. The Research Councils then consult with their communities on areas of research that are important. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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94. The Research Councils invest around £3 billion in research each year covering the full spectrum of academic disciplines. There is no specific regional allocation. Research Councils all have diVerent mechanisms for allotting funding, but they work together and discuss strategy on areas that cross Council remits. Many activities are undertaken collectively. 95. In 2006–07 around £1,627,189k (83%) of Research Council funding to Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) was awarded to HEIs in England and £54,308k (3%) to HEIs in Wales. 96. In addition to funding research in universities, three of the Research Councils (Biotechnical and Biological Sciences Research Council, Medical Research Council and the Natural Environment Research Council) also support their own research institutes, some of which are based in Wales. 97. Research Councils also fund postgraduates in universities. This is either through a block grant to the universities who allocate the individual grants or through direct competitive recruitment.
Collaboration and UK wide initiatives
98. Research Councils are pursuing a strong “economic impact” agenda, to increase the impact of the research that they fund. Existing knowledge transfer programmes are part of this but the economic impact agenda is broader. Research Councils fund research across the UK, and this will aVect how the university research communities consider economic impact. 99. Universities in both England and Wales and the Research Councils are also actively involved in European Research initiatives and secure funding for EU collaborative research with a range of partners in the UK and Europe. 100. In February 2005 HEFCE announced specific funding to support innovative strategic research collaboration between HEIs where this was likely to improve strength, quality and responsiveness of the national research base; and where partners had a commitment to sustained strategically-driven collaboration. 101. The funding aims to support innovative, leading-edge work that will carry forward work in the discipline(s) on the national or international scene. It supports collaboration by HEIs in England with other HEIs within the dual support system across the UK. 102. HEFCW participates in a number of UK wide initiatives to support national research and facilities. For example they are co-funders with the other HE Funding Bodies of the Joint Information Systems Committee (JISC). JISC supports education and research by promoting innovation in new technologies and by the central support of ICT services. It develops partnerships to enable the UK education and research communities to engage in national and global collaborations to overcome the challenges of delivering world- class ICT solutions and services.
Funders’ Forum
103. The DIUS led UK Funders’ Forum comprises the key funders of research in the UK and includes: representatives from the Research Councils; Government Departments and Devolved Administrations; charities; Regional Development Agencies and HEIs. Its role is to share and agree strategies for ensuring the sustainability of the research base and high quality research.
Research Capital Investment Fund (RCIF)
104. The Research Capital Investment Fund (RCIF) and its predecessor the Science Research Investment Fund (SRIF) have since 2002 addressed underinvestment in research capital. The earlier SRIF fund was a temporary fund designed to reduce the backlog of underinvestment. With that backlog now reduced to manageable levels, the new RCIF is a permanent funding stream to provide ongoing funding for research capital. 105. RCIF is made up of a combination of funding from the DIUS Science Budget across the UK, and funding from the separate national HE budgets (including DIUS for England and the Welsh Assembly Government in Wales), and is managed by the respective funding body. RCIF is allocated by formula. The Science Budget element is calculated on the basis of Research Council research income, the HE budget formulae are slightly diVerent, but take into account funding council block grants for research and external research funding eg from charities and business. 106. For the Spending Review period 2008–11 the total RCIF (science budget and HE budget combined) for English HEIs is £1,276 million; and the budget for Welsh HEIs is £56.3 million. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Engagement with Employers
Higher Education 107. While there has been active work to promote greater contact between HEIs and employers, DIUS’ work and policies relate to England only. DIUS works through a range of partners eg HEFCE, Universities UK; the Sector Skills Councils, the Confederation of British Industries etc. to drive forward the need for greater contact between both organisations. 108. One example between HE and employers, is through the HEFCE Strategic Development Fund, which is supporting HEI-led “employer co-funding” (ECF) pilot projects. Employers are being encouraged to fund and help design high level skills provision for their workforce to meet their business needs. To date some 29 HEIs are undertaking ECF projects—including the universities of Hertfordshire, Chester and Coventry. More are in the pipeline. These projects are looking at a number of practical issues around delivering employer co-funding. The HEFCE grant letter allocated £5/15/40 million to support 5/10/20 thousand employer co-funded places over 2008 to 2011. 109. We recently published “Higher Education at Work—High Skills: High value”, a consultation document, which describes a strategy to achieve growth in high level skills (level 4 and above) set by Lord Leitch. The consultation was launched on 14 April 2008, by the Minister of State for Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education; and it focuses on our aims to raise the skills and capacity for innovation and enterprise of those already in the workforce and to improve the employability of graduates. The document proposes some changes and consults all those involved about what the barriers are from their perspective and what can be done to remove them. Further information can be found at:—www.dius.gov.uk/ consultations/. The Devolved Administrations were consulted and were sent draft copies of the published strategy. 110. DIUS works closely with policy colleagues on the Commission for Employment and Skills, Sector Skills Councils which has a UK wide remit.
University Knowledge Transfer 111. The Government encourages universities to undertake knowledge transfer with business, public services and third sector organisations. The Higher Education Innovation Fund (HEIF) is the main policy intervention in England, to enable universities to build their capacity to engage with business and commercialise research, through collaboration, consultancy and contract research, use of facilities, continuous professional development and generation of Intellectual Property income. 112. HEIF is allocated by formula to all universities in England. The size of the allocation is related to student numbers and business income. This DIUS budget will increase to £150 million per annum by the end of the current CSR and is managed by HEFCE. HEIF helps English universities to work with business but it is not restricted to working with English businesses. 113. The Higher Education Funding Council for Wales have a separate “Third Mission Fund”, and £6.1 million was allocated to Welsh Universities to build their capacity to engage with business.
Technology Strategy Board 114. The Technology Strategy Board (TSB) remit covers the whole of the UK. It aims to make the UK a global leader in innovation. With a business-led board and a business focus, the Technology Strategy Board has been established to play a cross-Government role, advising on polices which relate to technology innovation and knowledge transfer and in delivering a national Technology Strategy. Its activities include support for business-knowledge base interactions through Knowledge Transfer Partnerships and Collaborative Research and Development alongside opportunities for networking through Knowledge Transfer Networks, which are established in a specific field of technology or business application. 115. Working with the Regional Development Agencies (RDAs) and the Research Councils, it will jointly invest over £1 billion in the next three years around three themes: challenge-led innovation, technology-inspired innovation and the innovation climate. In addition, it will continue to work with government departments, the Devolved Administrations and other funding partners to increase the overall total. 116. The Devolved Administrations are working with the Technology Strategy Board on a number of activities, including Knowledge Transfer Partnerships and jointly funded Collaborative R&D projects where the DAs have, since 2004, provided over £6.7 million (WAG £4.5 million, NI £1.8 million, Scottish Govt £0.4 million) of funding. Work is underway to further strengthen the national-regional interface. 117. David Grant, Vice Chancellor of CardiV University, is a member of the Technology Strategy Board’s Governing Board and has a role of representing the Devolved Administrations. A Strategic Advisory Group and an Operational Advisory Group support the work of the TSB—both include representatives from the English regions and Devolved Administrations and the RDAs. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Higher Education Business and Community Interaction (HE-BCI) 118. The Higher Education Business and Community Interaction Survey is a UK survey process managed by HEFCE on behalf of all the UK funding bodies for common reasons of eYciency and benchmarking. The data are collected together but funding decisions are very much at the national level. HEFCW have been on the steering group for the HE-BCI since its inception.
Foundation Degrees 119. We are committed to Foundation degrees (Fds) as a key vehicle for expansion in Higher Education—they are an example of the type of flexible work-focused and demand-led qualifications that Lord Leitch calls for. Courses are developed in partnership with employers to ensure graduates acquire the necessary skills and knowledge required in the workplace. The qualification attracts a range of people who wouldn’t normally consider taking up HE. 120. Foundation Degrees Forward (fdf) was established in 2003 and is funded by the Higher Education Funding Council for England and the Department for Employment and Learning in Northern Ireland in order to generate and support employer engagement strategies across higher education, with a particular focus on Foundation degrees. fdf initiatives include employer-based training accreditation and the establishment of employer consortia to develop national employer-led Foundation degrees for specific sectors. 121. Numerous institutions in Wales have sought advice and support from fdf in developing Foundation degree provision and have expressed interest in becoming involved with initiatives such as employer consortia. fdf has, where possible, provided consultancy and linked Welsh institutions with existing initiatives. For example, fdf has supported a creative and cultural industries project at the University of Glamorgan by linking it with an initiative in the North West of England. fdf are also facilitating the involvement of a Welsh employer organisation in the development of Foundation degrees for the heritage sector. 122. At December 2007 some 73,000 people had enrolled on a Fd in England. We are well placed to see further increases in order to meet our aspiration of a 100,000 Fds enrolments participation rate by 2010. The Further Education and Training Act 2007 allows FE colleges in England to apply for powers to be able to award Fds. FE colleges in Wales are not covered by the Act.
Further Education Engagement with Employers 123. The UK Commission for Employment and Skills was launched on 1 April 2008 to assess UK progress towards achieving world class skills and an 80% employment rate. It is jointly sponsored by BERR, DCSF, DIUS, DWP and the Devolved Administrations. 124. DIUS and the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) are committed to working together to deliver an integrated employment and skills service. However, skills is a devolved matter in Scotland and Wales and as such DIUS’ responsibility only extends to skills provision in England. Employment is a reserved matter and DWP has responsibility for employment and welfare provision across the whole of Great Britain. Therefore, DWP is working closely with the Welsh Assembly Government and the Scottish Executive to ensure that its employment provision dovetails with the skills provision decided upon by the Devolved Administrations. (Both employment and skills are devolved matters in Northern Ireland.) 125. In England the main initiatives are Train to Gain and the Employers Skills Pledge. The local LSC oYce has signed up with other local and regional stakeholders to developing a Cross Border Memorandum of Co-operation with the Welsh Border Counties. This has been led by the West Midlands Rural AVairs Forum, where the initial focus has been on tourism. 126. On 12 June DIUS and the Department for Work and Pensions published the “Work Skills” Command Paper which outlined initiatives to increase skills including the extension of Skills Accounts.
Train to Gain 127. Train to Gain is delivered by the Learning and Skills Council. It is central to the delivery of the Government’s skills ambitions. The aim of Train to Gain is to ensure that the workforce in England has the world-class skills to help the UK be a leader in the global economy in 2020. It aims to encourage employers to invest in the development of the skills and qualifications of their employees. 128. Train to Gain is the Government’s premier service to support employers in England, of all sizes and in all sectors, to improve the skills of their employees, unlock talent and drive improved business performance. It is designed as a flexible service to meet the needs of employers and their employees. All employees, irrespective of age, are included in a discussion between a Train to Gain skills broker and the employer. 129. Train to Gain is already a great success. By March 2008—since national roll-out began from April 2006—Train to Gain had: Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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— engaged with 92,210 employers (37,470 since August 2007); — supported 454,920 learners to begin learning programmes; and — delivered 186,720 full level 2 achievements.
Cross Border Issues 130. Wales has its own Workforce Development Programme and its own funding stream therefore employers and learners who are based in Wales are not generally eligible for support through Train to Gain. 131. The employer or place of employment must be in England. Practically this means that a Welsh person can be funded provided they are working for an English employer or are working in England. However just having a Head OYce in England is not a suYciently strong link to attract Train to Gain funding—where the employee lives and works only in Wales for a Welsh subsidiary they would not be considered eligible. 132. Learners are requested to self declare their “Country of Domicile” on the Individualised Learning Record. This shows that in Train to Gain in 2006–07 there were just over 320 Welsh learners and so far in 2007–08 (to period 8) there are almost 500.
Employers Skills Pledge
133. The Skills Pledge is a voluntary, public commitment by the leadership of a company or organisation to support all its employees to develop their basic skills, including literacy and numeracy, and work towards relevant, valuable qualifications to at least level 2 (equivalent to 5 good GCSEs). The purpose is to ensure that all staV are skilled, competent and able to make a full contribution to the success of the company/ organisation. The Skills Pledge is open to all employers in England, and access is dependent on where the employing organisation’s head oYce is based. 134. The National Basic Skills Strategy for Wales states it will ask the Basic Skills Agency to extend their “Employers Pledge Scheme” into Wales. This scheme is aimed at SMEs encouraging employers to show commitment to improving basic skills of their employees and should not be confused with the Skills Pledge in England which is about Skills for Life and level 2 as a minimum.
Skills Accounts
135. Skills Accounts are a universal oVer for all adults from autumn 2010 following introduction in two regions in 2008–09. We will oVer accounts to 18 year olds alongside a progressive roll out to working age adults, both those out-of-work and in the workforce.
UK Vocational Qualifications Reform Programme
136. The UK Vocational Qualifications Reform Programme was established in February 2006 to address weaknesses in the vocational qualification system. It is supported by Ministers in all four countries. It is being introduced by the governments and qualifications regulators in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and, to a lesser extent, Scotland; working with Sector Skills Councils, awarding bodies, FE providers and various other stakeholders. 137. The commitment to reforming vocational qualifications in the 2005 White Paper, was reaYrmed in World Class Skills: Implementing the Leitch Review of Skills in England. The aim is to create a VQ system that is more flexible and responsive to learner and employer needs, more inclusive and less bureaucratic. 138. The key reform is the innovative introduction of the world’s first regulated and credit based system. In the new framework for regulated qualifications—the Qualifications and Credit Framework (QCF)— reformed qualifications will be made up of units and learners will receive credit points for the completion of each unit. Credit will be recorded onto a learner achievement record, allowing achievements to be recognised and transferred between employers, providers and awarding bodies. Rational and consistent titles will greatly improve users’ understanding of the available VQs Learners will be able to see more readily the progression opportunities of their VQs, including into Higher Education. 139. The main change for employers is the introduction of a range of ways in which their in-house training can be accredited. Taken together, these changes mean that young people and adults can choose a qualification which suits their interests and learning style and allows them to prepare to make success of their life. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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14–19 Reforms 140. We want an excellent system of 14–19 education; a system where all young people have opportunities to learn in ways which motivate and engage them and through hard work position themselves for success in life. 14–19 in England is the responsibility of the Department for Children Schools and Families (DCSF), whether young people are in school, FE or Sixth Form College.
Machinery of Government Changes—June 2007 141. Following the creation of DCSF and DIUS it became the policy of both Departments to replace the LSC: putting 0–19 education and training funding and commissioning in the hands of the local authority; and bringing education and training provision together with responsibility for wider children and young people’s services. 142. Some of the main elements are: — Local authorities in England to lead commissioning of 14–19 education and training, including school Sixth Form and Sixth Form Colleges. — Sub regional clusters to plan and manage provision. — Each FE provider with one commissioning lead. — Designation system by the Secretary of State when local authorities are ready; until then Young Person’s Learning Authority (YPLA) to lead and administer funding system and monitor progress. — Framework set nationally, but decisions on institutional funding made locally. 143. DCSF will legislate for this at the earliest opportunity and are moving forward within the existing legislative structures, with a new system fully in place, subject to the passage of legislation, from September 2010. 144. The Government is transforming learning for 14–19 year olds—working with partners and with local authorities, the Learning and Skills Council, schools, colleges and work-related learning providers. The reforms have three main elements: — raising attainment now; — designing new curriculum and qualifications; and — delivering on the ground.
Education and Skills Bill 145. Through the Education and Skills Bill in our forthcoming legislative programme we will transfer responsibility for 14–19 provision from the LSC to the local authorities and give them the funding and commissioning powers to eVectively deliver the new entitlements and raise the participation age. This will streamline the post-19 skills system to make it better support our policies of creating a demand-led system and integrating employment and skills. This will make faster progress towards our ambition of achieving a world class skills base by 2020. 146. We will raise the participation age to 17 from September 2013 and to 18 from September 2015. We already have a challenging aspiration to get to 90% participation in education or work-based learning among 17 year olds, but we need to see an acceleration in participation in education and work-based learning at 16 and above in every area of the country if we are to achieve this and put us in a good position to move to 100% participation. 147. This legislation will significantly strengthen current adult funding entitlements for basic literacy and numeracy skills, adult first full level 2 qualifications and first full level 3 qualifications for learners aged between 19 and 25. These new provisions will contribute to dramatically driving up demand for skills, enabling the UK to achieve world class skills by 2020.
Qualifications Strategy 148. DCSF is currently consulting on a Qualifications Strategy for 14–19 year olds that will streamline the oVer: young people will choose between GCSE/A level; Diplomas; Apprenticeships—or if working below this level, the Foundation Learning tier.
14–19 Diploma 149. The Diploma is a new qualification that combines theoretical study with practical experience. The Diploma will cover 17 disciplines, including Engineering, Information Technology, Science and Humanities. All require a student to achieve a minimum standard in English, maths and ICT, complete a project and so a minimum of 10 days work experience. Diploma students will also acquire the skills and Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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knowledge which are essential for success in employment and higher education, both related to the discipline and those which are common, like teamwork, self-management and critical thinking skills. Schools and colleges in 146 areas across England will oVer the Diploma from September 2008. All 17 will be available in areas across the country by 2011. 150. As well as the Diploma, GCSEs and A levels are being updated and the number of Apprenticeships is being increased. We will establish apprenticeships as a key route to building the national skills base, working with employers to help young people and adults get the skills and qualifications that employers value. 151. We set out our commitments on Apprenticeships in “World Class Apprenticeships”, which was published in January this year. We are currently recruiting for the post of National Apprenticeship Services Chief Executive. This is a key step in establishing a new National Apprenticeship Service which will lead on delivering the apprenticeship programme.
Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) 152. The EMA was introduced in England in September 2004 to incentivise more 16–19 year olds to participate and ensure that those from low-income families have the opportunity to do so. Payments range from £10 to £30 a week depending on household income and learners’ compliance with their “contract”. Over 527,000 young people benefited from EMA payments in 2006–07. 153. EMA in England are administered by the LSC and by the SLC for Wales. The schemes are similar in both countries with some small diVerences. eg in 2008–09 the income threshold in England will be maintained at the existing level, but will be uprated by inflation in Wales.
September Guarantee 154. The 14–19 Implementation Plan (2005) made a commitment to oVer, by the end of September, a suitable place in post-16 learning to all young people completing compulsory education. This is known as the September Guarantee. The guarantee was implemented nationally in 2007. The guarantee has been extended to 17 year olds in 2008 to give those who enrol on one year or short courses, or who leave the activity they chose when leaving school, further opportunities to engage in learning.
14–19 Reform in Wales 155. The Learning Country—Vision into Action set out the Welsh Government’s vision for young people in Wales. Consultation on the Learning and Skills (Wales) Measure 2008 was launched in January and set out specific proposals to give greater opportunities to young people for access to the most appropriate form of learning in order to achieve the skills required for further learning or employment. These reflect the aims of the 14–19 agenda in England, but with measures tailored for Wales. For instance, Wales have set a target of 93% of 16–18 year olds in education, employment or training and will not be introducing compulsion or legislating to raise the leaving age.
Qualifications in Wales 156. The Welsh Baccalaureate was rolled out in September 2007 with some 9,000 students studying across 76 schools. The qualification is gaining increasing recognition from HEIs. 157. Wales is working with the Sector Skills Councils and awarding bodies to make appropriate modifications to the Welsh Baccalaureate to incorporate the employer endorsed element of the English 14–19 Diplomas. 158. OYcials in England and Wales keep each other informed. They will be monitoring the impact of the diVerent systems on pupils moving or seeking to learn across the borders.
Looking Forward
2009 Commission 159. At the time the HE Bill was going through Parliament in 2003, the Government made a commitment that the current arrangements for university tuition fees would be in place till the end of the decade and there would be no change until after a thorough independent review. Our position remains the same. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Conclusion 160. Further and Higher Education is a dynamic sector. Each of the four UK Administrations faces major challenges in the context of global competition and demographic changes. Since Devolution while there have been some diVerences in the arrangements in England and Wales. Overall, these do not appear to have had a negative impact in the delivery and outcome for learners in Further and Higher Education. 161. It is likely that over time policies and systems will become more divergent as each country looks to provide what best meets its needs. This will inevitably aVect student behaviour and the number and nature of cross-border engagement. That is not unhealthy and convergence and co-ordination is not always desirable nor indeed possible. 162. However, as each country develops its future policies, it will become increasingly important to build on some of the existing mechanisms to ensure continued early dialogue and opportunities are established at all levels, to share, learn and where appropriate consider where greater alignment is advantageous, without undue bureaucracy. June 2008
Supplementary memorandum submitted by the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills
Q921 Mark Williams—Could you quantify (the joint funding of the capital infrastructure fund) in terms of how Welsh institutions are benefiting from that? The Research Capital Investment Fund (RCIF) provides capital funding to universities to help them maintain the infrastructure (including buildings and equipment) that supports their research. In the Science Budget Allocations announcement in December 2007, the Government announced that RCIF would be a permanent funding stream to replace the earlier Science Research Investment Fund (SRIF), which was a temporary funding stream to deal with the historic backlog of funding in research infrastructure. RCIF funding comes in two parts—one part is provided by the UK Government from the Science Budget, the other part comes from the Higher Education funding body in each of the four countries of the UK. The Science Budget component of RCIF is allocated to Higher Education Institutions by reference to the amount of funding that they receive from the Research Councils. The HE Budget component is allocated by the Funding Bodies and is a devolved matter.
Table 1
SCIENCE BUDGET RCIF FUNDING 2008–11
Total Science Budget RCIF 2008–09 2009–10 2010–11 3 Years 3 year total Wales 7,520,66 9,029,305 7,493,686 24,043,653 4% England 164,254,906 196,884,053 177,715,190 538,854,150 82% Whole UK 200,000,000 239,860,000 214,851,000 654,711,000 100%
Q934: Hywel Williams—Have Welsh institutions always done worse in terms of attracting research funding than institutions in England Table two gives a breakdown of Research Council Grant spend in England and Wales, going back to 1996–97. It shows that while the proportions have varied, Welsh institutions have tended to attract in the range of 2.5 to 3.5% of the Research Council funding in the UK.
Table 2
TOTAL RESEARCH GRANT SPENDS IN ENGLAND AND WALES AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE UK TOTAL SINCE 1996–97
Research Council Research Grant Spend (£k) 1996–97 1997–98 1998–99 1999–2000 2000–01 Wales 13,487 15,932 16,454 16,838 18,904 % of UK total 2.5 2.8 2.9 2.9 2.9 England 447,988 480,199 480,498 486,005 558,274 % of UK total 83.1 84.1 84.5 84.3 84.6 Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Research Council Research Grant Spend (£k) 2001–02 2002–03 2003–04 2004–05 2005–06 2006–07 Wales 27,238 29,000 25,222 25,704 27,999 33,576 % of UK total 3.5 3.5 3.3 3.0 2.8 2.9 England 646,420 707,814 645,802 720,582 848,164 970,910 % of UK total 83.4 84.7 83.4 83.7 84.3 85.0 Source: Research Councils UK data
Letter from Bill Rammell MP, Minister of State for Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education to the Chairman Thank you for your letter of 22 July, addressed to John Denham, Secretary of State for the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills, concerning points made by Professor Reesy Pro-Vice Chancellor of CardiV University, at the recent evidence sessions relating to your Committee’s inquiry into the impact of devolution on cross-border services in Further and Higher Education. In his absence I am replying on behalf of Bill Rammell who is Minister for Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education.
I welcomed the opportunity to contribute, with my oYcials, to the inquiry at the oral evidence session on 15 July. I am glad members of the Committee found the session constructive and worthwhile.
Turning to the points from Professor Rees’ evidence that you include in your letter. I believe there is already a good deal of communication between oYcials at all levels across Further and Higher Education with colleagues in the Devolved Administrations. Some of this is formalised, but more is informal. Where there is UK-wide responsibility, there is a range of mechanisms for UK-wide involvement and strategic planning. For example, the Research Base Funders’ Forum, including representatives from Administrations and Funding Councils in the four countries of the UK, is well established and informs priorities and planning at a strategic level. Also, Devolved Administrations had an opportunity to contribute to negotiations on the Seventh Framework Programme and are involved in an ongoing dialogue through the Framework Programme Network.
However, in addition to oYcial level contacts, I agree that there may be scope for more formalised Ministerial discussions. I suggested in my oral evidence that I should add formal bi-annual meetings with the Welsh Assembly Government to existing contacts. I can see a benefit in also exploring this idea with counterparts in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and will put a proposal to them after the recess. I believe a targeted ministerial meeting covering aspects of FE, HE and Research Policy would be a more appropriate mechanism than using the Joint Ministerial Committee, which I do not believe is the appropriate forum for seeking consensus or making agreements on policies.
You mention that Professor Rees said Welsh Higher Education Institutions do not receive their “fair” share of research funding from DIUS. I think there may be some confusion here. In my evidence, I explained that the UK-wide Research Council funding is allocated on the basis of research excellence. Earlier in her oral evidence Professor Rees supported this by saying “I do not think any institution in Wales is against research funding through Research Councils following excellence, what we are really concerned about is the lack of core funding that we have in Wales for higher education vis-a-vis England”. She went on to add “I do not want to talk about Research Councils, because actually I think we are all fairly happy with the way that the Research Councils operate, but it is the other side, the QR”. The QR block grant of funding (that can help act as pump-priming for research) is part of devolved HE policy, so DIUS only funds QR in England (via HEFCE). If Professor Rees is concerned at the level of QR in Wales, she would need to address those concerns to the Welsh Assembly Government, who provide QR funding in Wales.
You also ask about a “debate on a UK-wide science strategy”, where Professor Rees in her evidence expressed concern with having several diVerent science policies. I believe it is because of the importance of a joined up approach to science funding that science is a reserved matter. I am clear that when the Government sets out science policy it does so in view of the UK as a whole. A key foundation of the policy is the Science and Innovation Investment Framework 2004–14. The allocation of the Science Budget for the CSRR2007 period clearly and repeatedly emphasises the UK-wide nature of science spending. Against that background, I see no need for a national debate at this time.
I and my oYcials stand ready to answer any further questions that arise from your inquiry and I look forward to reading your final report. 27 August 2008 Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Memorandum submitted by Vorwm
Introduction 1. Vorwm welcomes the opportunity to submit written evidence in respect of the cross border services in further education to the Welsh AVairs Committee. 2. Vorwm, the equivalent body in Wales to the Association of Colleges in England, is the national organisation representing the 23 further education (FE) colleges and two FE institutions in Wales.8 It is an educational charity and a company limited by guarantee. Vorwm’s Board comprises college principals and chairs of corporations, appointed by member colleges. Vorwm provides a range of services to its members including networks, conferences, research, consultancy and the sharing of good practice. It also works closely with a wide range of partners in post-16 education and training. Through Vorwm, colleges are represented on various committees, working parties and other groups influencing and shaping policy in post-16 education and life-long learning. It works closely with the Welsh Assembly Government in developing and implementing policy.
Data 3. Data from the Welsh Assembly Government (WAG) from the Lifelong Learning Wales Record (LLWR) on learners travelling from England to Wales is attached as an Annex. 4. The data shows that of the 24 colleges/institutions (St David’s Catholic College is not included), all but two have learners stating an English postcode or stating their domicile as English. Not surprisingly, those colleges close to the border with England record the greatest number of learners from England. These colleges are: Coleg Gwent in South East Wales; Coleg Llysfasi and the Welsh College of Horticulture in North East Wales (both specialist land-based colleges), Deeside College and Yale College, all in North East Wales. Coleg Harlech/WEA North is one of the smallest providers in Wales but has a relatively high number of learners from England as a result of its specialist adult provision. 5. Around 6,000 learners stated their domicile as English. This compares with a total of 271,000 learners in total in Wales. Thus the number of English students is approximately 2.2% of the student cohort. 6. There is no evidence about which parts of England learners come from. It is assumed that most would come from areas close to the border with Wales, ie Gloucestershire, Hereford and Worcester, Shropshire, Cheshire, and probably Merseyside.
Context 7. Education is a devolved responsibility. Education policy aVecting further education in Wales diVers considerably from that in England. — In Wales, a significant report on the mission and purpose of FE chaired by Sir Adrian Webb,9 published in December 2007, sets out a future direction for FE colleges. Its main recommendations cover the reconfiguration of FE colleges and other providers oVering education and training post- 16; new funding arrangements for 14–19 education; and a new direction in employer engagement. — The WAG’s draft Skills and Employment Strategy10 sets out the WAG’s response to the Leitch Review on Skills and serves as its initial response to Sir Adrian Webb’s report.11 Both these reports set a distinctive policy direction which builds on the approach set out in WAG’s The Learning Country.12 — Proposals for a Learning and Skills Measure, which sets out the importance of young people having a minimum number of vocational and academic options at the ages of 14 and 16.13 8. A number of other factors include: — WAG policy is focused on cooperation and the development of partnerships between providers rather than competition. — FE colleges in Wales are funded less generously than colleges in England.14 — Capital investment in Wales falls well behind that of any other UK country.15
8 In this response the term further education institution (FEI) and FE colleges are used to describe all of Vorwm’s members. 9 Promise and Performance: The Report of the Independent Review of the Mission and Purpose of Further Education in Wales in the Context of The Learning Country: Vision into Action, chaired by Sir Adrian Webb, December 2008. 10 Skills That Work for Wales: A Skills and Employment Strategy. Consultation document no 047/2008, Welsh Assembly Government. 11 HM Treasury (December 2006) Prosperity for All in the Global Economy—World Class Skills Final Report of the Leitch Review of Skills. 12 The Learning Country: Vision into Action. DCELLS, Welsh Assembly Government, 2006. 13 Proposals for a Learning and Skills Measure (Wales) Measure 2008, Welsh Assembly Government, January 2008. 14 Funding on post-16 learning per head of the population in Wales is around 5.45% compared with 5.85% England. ibid, p102. 15 Post-16 capital expenditure per head of the population in Wales is around £4.20 compared with £9.95 in England, £16.50 in Northern Ireland and £14 in Scotland. ibid, p 102. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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— However, lecturers in Wales have achieved pay parity with schoolteachers and WAG has invested heavily in ensuring this takes place. — There is a single Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills (DCELLS) in Wales covering education of all ages. In England, there are now two departments (Department for Children, Schools and Families and the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills). — In Wales there is no central funding agency equivalent to the Learning and Skills Council (LSC). The functions of ELWa, the equivalent body to the LSC, were transferred to WAG in April 2006. — There is no intention in Wales to transfer funding for 16–19 provision to local education authorities (LEAs). The funding of 16–19 provision will remain with WAG. — In England, there has been considerable increased investment in learners post-16. This funding has been directed towards improving facilities and equipment whereas in Wales the funding has gone on increasing the pay of lecturers. Thus learners in Wales attending colleges in England will have the benefit of improved facilities. — There are a number of specific initiatives in Wales such as the development of the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification; the Welsh Assembly Grant system for learners attending FE or higher education; recognition of the Welsh language and the importance of Welsh-medium or bilingual education. In England there has been Train to Gain, the development of Centres for Excellence and Skills Academies and policies such as the presumption that a high performing school seeking to open a sixth form will have its application accepted. 9. There are a number of similarities. Both the administrations in Wales and in England have seen the raising of standards as central and there is evidence that standards in FE colleges, as measured by inspections (Estyn in Wales, Ofsted in England), have risen considerably over the past few years.
Arrangements Currently in Place to Co-ordinate Cross-border Provision 10. There is little evidence of any systematic coordination of cross-border provision. As one principal close to the border with England pointed out: “I am not aware of arrangements to co-ordinate cross border FE. Free trade exists”. 11. This lack of coordination may not be a bad thing. Another principal reported: “We are not conscious of the “border” for the vast majority of the time, and in an education context the current arrangements seem to be working well in that they are flexible enough to ensure that individual learners and employers get the learning they want”. 12. Another principal stated increasing cross-border coordination might be useful but only if there was no additional bureaucracy: “It would make sense for continued dialogue between FE centres in these areas but it would not be appropriate to require formalised joint planning systems with a swathe of additional bureaucracy to manage and monitor its eVect”. 13. There is some evidence of coordination. For example, a Memorandum of Understanding regarding cross border issues between WAG and the West Midlands Local Authorities was agreed in 2007. However the existence of the MoU is not well known and as yet there is little evidence of the impact of this MoU.
Why Learners from England Attend Courses in Colleges in Wales 14. Learners attend colleges in Wales because of the specific courses oVered, because transport may be more convenient and because campuses may be nearer than centres in England rather than as a result of any systematic policy. They may also attend employment related courses because their workplace is in Wales. 15. One principal reported that: “Because of the specialist nature and quality of provision, we have always recruited significant numbers of students from across north and mid Wales and north west England”. One college reported having a relatively high number of learners from England, owing to the college’s major and relatively high involvement in work-based learning (WBL) and other employer-linked learning in NE Wales, and the wider sub-region of Merseyside and Cheshire. The college is an active member of a multi-agency regional group called the Mersey-Dee Alliance. In addition, there are high employment levels in Deeside and Flintshire, and as this borders with England, many of the workforce reside in England. So to meet these employers’ needs the college trains staV who live outside Wales. 16. Another specialist college has had an overall increase in part-time learners from England in the current year. They show that learners from England have increased from 818 (57 full-time (FT) and 711 part-time (PT)) in 2005–06 to 1,213 (106 FT and 1,107 PT) in 2007–08. In terms of headcount, learners from England as a proportion of total learners have increased from 17.1% in 2005–06 to 18.5% in 2007–08. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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17. The principal sees this recruitment of learners from England as important for the college: “It is essential this flow of students should continue so the quantum of learners can be retained despite the demographic downturn in 16 year olds… In future, the college focus will be on more upskilling of the existing workforce which will involve older learners”. 18. In another college, most learners from England are adults accessing community provision provided in border towns such as Presteigne and Knighton. 19. In Powys, the Welsh county with the longest border with England, there is a flow of learners both ways. Many Powys residents access their health, retail, leisure and education services from Oswestry, Shrewsbury and Hereford for example. These are their local centres of any size. The college refers learners from the area to these other centres for specialist provision (eg plumbing) that is not readily accessible locally. In the past, the college had a significant number of WBL trainees in outdoor education from outdoor centres in the Wye Valley area. In recent years, the way WBL is funded has prevented the college from supporting English learners in this way.
Specialist Residential Provision 20. In respect of specialist residential provision, which is provided by one college located in north west Wales, bursary funding levels are less than those in England and do not cover costs. The college has to draw on Financial Contingency Funds (FCF) and hardship funds to keep this provision going. 21. Within Wales. bursary funds provide some support for learners. FCF or hardship funds are utilised to support learners where appropriate. 22. The college’s specialist long residential courses provide for English domiciled students to receive intensive residential Access provision as a preparation for residential HE level at university, as opposed to day Access courses at FE or HE level, that are not available at the English residential colleges. 23. There is no coordination over the funding allocated to learners. Historically, from the beginning of the establishment of the residential college network, the reciprocal arrangements have worked as they allow Welsh domiciled students to make use of the English residential colleges facilities and apply for funding from England. The bursary marketing material specifically mentions the cross border potential eg the Ruskin bursary booklet names Coleg Harlech as one of the group of residential colleges on the first page.
Transport 24. Transport arrangements vary between colleges. A principal of a specialist land-based college reports that: “We bus most of the full-time students in from England using our own fleet of buses. The part-time students normally find their own ways into the college to access their training. We transport a significant number of our students to the college from a wide geographical location across North Wales. Significant numbers of our full-time students and some part-time students access the transport where appropriate. We link up to the LEA routes where ever possible picking up often where the buses terminate”. 25. Another principal reported that home-to-college transport is a major source of diYculty on account of the geography of the area although the local authority has maintained their post-16 discretionary transport policy to date. 26. The boundary for the Central Wales area within the Wales Spacial Plan includes a number of English towns. Clearly, it would make sense for continued dialogue between FE providers in these areas but it would not be appropriate to require formalised joint planning systems with a swathe of additional bureaucracy to manage and monitor its eVect.
Other Issues 27. Under the Education (Fees and Awards) Regulations, a learner who has been ordinarily resident in Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man who moves to England or Wales specifically for the purpose of attending a course is regarded as being ordinarily resident in the place from which s/he moved. Such a learner would normally be eligible for funding for a programme of learning. However, learners not domiciled in Wales but attending Welsh colleges are not currently eligible to receive financial support such as financial contingency funds or a Coleg Harlech bursary, nor are they able to receive the education deprivation uplift. There are also some diVerences in calculating “sparsity” weightings.16
16 National Planning and Funding System (NPFS). A Guide. ELWa, Jan 2006. “In Wales, calculations show an average sparsity of 13.23 learners per square kilometre. For an electoral division to be classified as sparse, both the division and the unitary authority must have a learner population density of less than 13.23 learners per sq km. For England, as appropriate learner information is not available, a “sparse” ward is defined as a ward whose population density falls below the Welsh national average, provided that population density for the local authority containing that ward also falls below this level”. para 7.51. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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28. WAG has a reciprocal arrangement with the LSC for colleges and providers in England close to the borders with Wales. However, guidance issued to colleges in Wales by ELWa (and in England by the LSC) states that: “it is not expected that colleges and providers in Wales will recruit entire groups of learners from outside their local area”.17 29. Under the FE and Training Act 2007, FE colleges in England—but not in Wales—have the power to validate their own foundation degrees, subject to approval by the Privy Council which will need to be reassured about quality procedures and suYcient numbers of learners. The WAG’s Deputy Minister for Skills has indicated that WAG intends to seek equivalent powers for colleges in Wales. If this power is not extended to colleges in Wales, it could lead to English border colleges putting on their own foundation degree courses which could be targeted at learners in Wales—a one-sided aVair. It would benefit learners if colleges in Wales, once awarded foundation degree making powers, worked with colleges in England on an equal basis in developing foundation degrees. This would help avoid duplication and boost demand as learners would be drawn from both sides of the border.
Recommendations 30. This response has covered some aspects of cross border services in further education. They have applied to Wales and England only and have not referred to learners attending colleges in Wales from other UK countries. It is assumed that numbers from Scotland and Northern Ireland are very small. There are a number of recommendations that Vorwm would like the Committee to consider. 31. Regular data should be collected and published on the number of learners from other UK countries attending colleges in Wales and those from Wales attending other UK countries. 32. The current arrangements seem to be working satisfactorily in that learners choose to attend provision that suits their needs. There is a risk that establishing formal cross-border coordination might lead to bureaucratic obstacles or planning systems which might make provision more diYcult. 33. However, it would be useful for relevant regulatory and funding bodies in Wales and England to liaise on cross-border matters and encourage liaison between providers where there is clear benefit for learners. This will be particularly important when local authorities in England take over from the LSC responsibility for funding 16–19 learners. 34. Wherever possible, learners from Wales attending courses in England should not be disadvantaged as compared with English domiciled learners. The same principle should apply to English domiciled learners attending colleges in Wales. 35. Encouragement from WAG and from the DCSF and DIUS to colleges to enrol learners from both sides of the border might be helpful. 36. It might be useful for meetings to be organised of colleges in Wales which have a significant number of learners from England (say, over 100) with those colleges in England with equivalent numbers of learners from Wales to share issues and any problems. The same principle might apply to sixth forms in schools. 37. The major policy diVerences in Wales and England over the funding and management of 16–19 learners and of adult learners, particularly those taking employment related courses, and the disparities in levels of recurrent and capital funding between the two countries should not prevent cooperation.
Annex
NUMBER OF LEARNERS DOMICILED IN ENGLAND AND ENROLLED AT WELSH FE INSTITUTIONS IN ACADEMIC YEAR 2005–06
Learners stating an Learners stating their domicile as English** FEI English postcode* All 18 & under 19 & over
Barry College 45 * 0 * Bridgend College 15 0 0 0 Coleg Ceredigion 50 45 * 45 Coleg Glan Hafren 95 15 5 10 Coleg Gwent 950 355 10 345 Coleg Harlech/WEA (North) 225 225 5 220 Coleg Llandrillo 290 10 * 5 Coleg Llysfasi 165 150 10 145 Coleg Meirion Dwyfor 20 5 * 5 Coleg Menai 90 55 * 50 Coleg Morgannwg 50 * 0 * Coleg Powys 270 185 15 170
17 NPFS ibid, para 8.48. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Learners stating Learners stating their domicile as English** an FEI English postcode* All 18 & under 19 & over
Coleg Sir Gar 70 * * * Deeside College 2,420 2,650 215 2,435 Gorseinon College * 0 0 0 Merthyr Tydfil College * 0 0 0 Neath Port Talbot College 25 20 * 15 Pembrokeshire College 40 20 * 20 Swansea College 45 15 * 15 WEA South 10 * 0 * Welsh College of Horticulture 1,050 645 100 540 Yale College 1,565 1,875 420 1,455 YMCA 10 0 0 0 Ystrad Mynach College 35 0 0 0 Total 6,285 795 5,485 Unique Learner Total 7,540 5,955 760 5,195 Data source Lifelong Learning Wales Record (LLWR), 12 March 2007 Notes 1. Counts greater than 0 and less than 5 are asterisked out for data sensitivity. 2. All other counts are rounded to nearest 5 and there may be slight discrepancies between the sums of constituent items and the independently rounded totals. * On a unique learner basis any pre-filters learning programmes with English postcode before reducing to learner level. ** On a provider-defined basis and Learners domiciled in England: reported before commencing learning programme as their country of domicile for their latest learning programme. April 2008
Supplementary memorandum submitted by Vorwm and The Association of Colleges
SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION ON DATA
Introduction
1. This paper has been submitted following oral evidence to the Welsh AVairs Committee by Vorwm and the Association of Colleges (AoC) on 17 June 2008. 2. The paper outlines the diVerent student data collected in England and Wales, identifies some issues concerning the use of the terms “domicile” and “postcode” in England and Wales; and compares data collected in Wales and England.
Student Data Collection
3. In Wales, learner data is collected using the Lifelong Learning Wales Record (LLWR). In England, the Individualised Learner Record (ILR) is used. Although there is much in common between the two, both systems diVer in terms of the type of data collected (for example the ILR collects data on Train to Gain, which does not exist in Wales) and definitions of terms.
Difference between Domicile and Postcode
4. The data on learners enrolled at colleges in England or Wales is collected on the basis of whether the learner is “domiciled” in one country or on the basis of their postcode. 5. The term “domicile” in respect to the LLWR refers to the “country in which the learner has his/her permanent home”. The country of domicile is recorded before the person commences a learning programme. The ILR, however, defines “domicile” in the following way. Domicile: “should reflect the learner’s normal country of residence. This is the country the learner would normally regard themselves as going home to”. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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6. The other data used in Vorwm’s written evidence is based on “postcode”. The LLWR states that the postcode refers to “the home postcode for the learner at the start of a learning programme”. Home postcode is defined slightly diVerently in the ILR as “the permanent or home postcode of the learner prior to enrolling at the provider”. The LLWR and the ILR both have a field covering “current postcode”. There is no definition in the LLWR whereas in the ILR it is defined as “the postcode of the learner’s current or last known residence . . . This may diVer from home postcode field where a learner has changed residence since enrolling. For example, if they are living away from home”. 7. The definitions of data used by the LLWR and the ILR diVer slightly and this may lead to data not being strictly comparable.
Data on Cross Border Movement of Post-16 FE Learners
8. Data collected by the LLWR on learners attending colleges in Wales who are domiciled in England diVer from the data on learners who have been recorded as having an English postcode. 9. Thus 7,540 learners studying in colleges in Wales gave their postcode as England whereas the numbers stating they were domiciled in England totalled 5,955—a diVerence of 1,585 (25% higher in the case of “domiciled” learners). 10. It is important therefore to recognise the diVerences between “postcode” and “domicile” in analysing data. The same diVerence of scale might apply to data collected in England through the ILR. 11. Another complicating factor is that learners can change addresses during a course. For example, a student studying in Wales but living in England might move to an address in Wales during his/her studies. 12. The data on domiciled students shows that the numbers of 16–19 learners living in Wales and enrolling in English colleges is almost identical to those travelling in the opposite direction (760 as opposed to 763). However, there is a major diVerence in 19! learners. There are 1,182 more 19! learners travelling to colleges in Wales than travelling to English colleges—almost 30% more. 13. The evidence presented by AoC shows that the numbers of learners domiciled in England studying at colleges in Wales fell between 2005–06 and 2006–07. Similar data is not yet available from the LLWR.
FE STUDENTS DOMICILED IN ENGLAND AND WALES CROSSING THE BORDER 2005–06
Domiciled in England/ Domiciled in Wales/ DiVerence in number attending college in Wales attending college in England (a"b) (a) (b) 16–18 760 763 "3 19! 5,195 4,013 !1,182 Total 5,955 4,776 Data collected from the Lifelong Learning Wales Record (Wales) and the Individualised Learner Record (England). Data is not available in Wales on 2006–07.
Conclusion
14. England and Wales both use diVerent data collection systems—the Individualised Learning Record in England and the Lifelong Learning Wales Record in Wales. Although both systems have much in common there are some diVerences between them. Definitions of terms—such as “domicile”—diVer. Data collected in the two countries needs therefore to be treated with caution. 15. There is a diVerence in both data collection systems between “domicile” and “post-code”. Data based on postcode rather than domicile in Wales increases the numbers of learners from England studying in Welsh colleges by around 25%. 16. The Committee might wish to recommend that there should be common definitions of terms and that data should be collected in the same way between both countries. This would help paint a clearer picture of the numbers of learners crossing the border to study in colleges in Wales and England. 17. The Committee might also wish to recommend that the Welsh Assembly Government and the Learning and Skills Council (and successor bodies) might wish to publish annual figures on the extent of migration in respect of post-16 education to monitor the trends. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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LEARNERS FROM WALES IN FE COLLEGES IN ENGLAND, 2006–07
% of Welsh domiciled students in Number of Number of English Provider Name 16–18 students 19! students Total colleges
West Cheshire College 90 725 815 21.7 Walford and North Shropshire College 132 251 383 10.2 City of Bristol College 27 230 257 6.8 Manchester College of Arts and Technology (Mancat) 22 228 250 6.6 Herefordshire College of Technology 84 111 195 5.2 Blackpool and the Fylde College 9 163 172 4.6 Shrewsbury College of Arts and Technology 35 118 153 4.1 Ruskin College Oxford 0 110 110 2.9 Solihull College 0 90 90 2.4 Royal Forest of Dean College 52 35 87 2.3 Telford College of Arts and Technology 0 76 76 2.0 Others (135 Colleges) 207 906 1,173 31.2
Table 2 illustrates the comparison with the previous year and particularly a sharp fall in post-19 numbers as a result of the changes to Learning and Skills Council funding rules. These reductions are not particular to Wales-domiciled students and have aVected all colleges in England in a similar way. There was a reduction of 700,000 further education students in English colleges between 2005–06 and 2006–07.
Table 2
TOTAL NUMBERS OF WALES-DOMICILED LEARNERS STUDYING IN COLLEGES IN ENGLAND
% 2005–06 2006–07 diVerence
16–18 763 718 "5.9 19! 4,013 3,043 "24.2 Total 4,776 3,761 "21.3
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Supplementary memorandum submitted by Vorwm
EXAMPLES OF FOUNDATION DEGREES CURRENTLY OFFERED BY FE COLLEGES IN WALES Aeronautical Engineering Animal Studies Art & Design Automotive Management Building Studies Childcare Childhood and Learning Support Complementary Therapies Computer Aide Architectural Technology Computing Deaf Studies Early Childhood Studies Graphic Design Health & Social Care Hotel & Hospitality Management Library and Information Management Management of Care Management and Business Management of Travel & Tourism Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering Multi-Media Studies Police Studies Purchasing and Supply Retail Management Sport—Adventure Sport Sports Coaching and Performance Sport—Fitness Sports Science Tourist Guiding Travel and Tourism Youth & Community Development
Memorandum submitted by Mark Harper MP
LIVING NEAR A BORDER
Education
The teaching of Welsh in Welsh state schools is now part of the National Curriculum for Wales.18 English pupils living in England are eligible to attend a nearby Welsh school but have to study Welsh up to year 11 (GCSE). Pupils in Tidenham, in the South Forest of Dean, for example, may attend Chepstow School but have to study Welsh even though they may never have any further exposure to Welsh culture. Every school day, a bus transports pupils from Ross on Wye in England to Monmouth Comprehensive School in Wales where they will be taught Welsh. And a bus, travelling the other way, takes Welsh children to the John Kyrle School in Ross on Wye where they will not be taught Welsh. Welsh Independent schools do not have to provide for Welsh teaching. Central powers provide funding to the devolved powers on the same basis as it provides funding to the English Local Education Authorities, ie. a non ring-fenced sum derived from standard parametric equations that incorporate pupil numbers and their characteristics. The devolved power represents an extra layer of administration and, hence, an extra financial burden. English people who have to deal with public services in Wales can either be put at a disadvantage with Welsh people, in the case of public transport, or other English people, in the case of healthcare. People very close to each other can therefore find that their experience of public services in border areas is very diVerent. This is a direct result of certain aspects of the devolution settlement. Part of the problem with this system is that English people use Welsh public services in a variety of circumstances, but have no
18 http://old.accac.org.uk/eng/content.php?cID%3&pID%16 Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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ability to influence services through the ballot box. There is also perceived unfairness in the amount of money that devolved nations get from the UK government and the resulting improved services—for example, free prescriptions in Wales. The Government compounds this problem by referring to national schemes to mean England only, not the UK. Clarity of meaning and communication is therefore also essential. Future developments in the process of devolution need to consider the impact changes in the policy will have on those that live close to the border and how local services in border areas will be aVected. May 2008
Memorandum submitted by The Higher Education Funding Council for Wales (HEFCW)
Introduction 1. We understand the scope of the Committee’s inquiry is to include an examination of: — the extent to which cross-border public services are currently provided for and accessed by the Welsh population; — the arrangements currently in place to coordinate cross-border public service provision; and — the funding of cross-border public services.
Background 2. Our expectations of a pan-UK system of higher education are, in some respects at least, of relatively recent origin. 3. Prior to 1992, higher education provision was run broadly on a UK-wide basis for the older, “traditional” universities. However, for the “public sector” institutions, although there was a national framework for some aspects (eg quality assurance through the Council for National Academic Awards) the polytechnics and HE colleges were funded and run by each local authority, with very diVerent approaches, levels of funding, etc. 4. Scotland historically has had a diVerent approach, with school highers, students going to university younger and four year degrees. This tended to militate against cross-border flow even before fee arrangements started to diVer. 5. Under the Further and Higher Education Act 1992, separate funding councils were established for England, Wales and Scotland, and separate arrangements for Northern Ireland. 6. HEFCW’s responsibilities under the 1992 Act are for the administration of funds made available by the Welsh Assembly Government in support of the provision of education, the undertaking of research by higher education institutions, and the provision of prescribed courses of higher education at further education institutions. The Council also has responsibility to secure provision for assessing the quality of education provided in institutions for whose activities it provides financial support. 7. In addition, under the Education Acts 2002 and 2005 HEFCW is responsible for funding and accrediting providers of initial teacher training for school teachers and commissioning research to improve the standards of teachers and teacher training. 8. HEFCW’s mission is to promote internationally excellent higher education in Wales, for the benefit of individuals, society and the economy, in Wales and more widely. Working with partners, we deploy funds from the Welsh Assembly Government and others in order to: — secure higher education learning and research of the highest quality; — maximise the contribution of higher education to the culture, society and economy of Wales; and — ensure high quality, accredited teacher training provision across Wales. 9. In addition to our funding responsibilities, we provide advice to the Welsh Assembly Government on the funding needs, aspirations and concerns of the higher education sector in Wales. 10. At the same time, much policy towards research, science and innovation remained at UK level, via the Research Councils and related central government apparatus (now the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills—DIUS), although HEFCW funding (as the largest single source) makes an essential contribution to the Welsh research infrastructure. 11. Further devolution of HE policy took place after the Higher Education Act 2004, which set out a new statutory framework governing the introduction of flexible tuition fees for higher education provision in England and Wales and resulted in student support and fee setting powers transferring to the Welsh Assembly Government. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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12. Policy for higher education in Wales rests, therefore, with the Welsh Assembly Government, whose main instrument on matters other than student fees and finance is HEFCW. The main policy framework was set in 2002, after a major review, with the publication in March of that year of Reaching Higher: Higher Education and the Learning Country. A strategy for the higher education sector in Wales.19 There have been a number of more recent policy statements also of significance to higher education, notably the Assembly Government’s Science Policy20 and, following the 2007 election, One Wales.21
Extent to which Cross-border HE is Currently Provided For and Accessed by the Welsh Population 13. Until very recently, there has been very little sense of the full-time student market making any strong distinction between Wales and England (after allowing for the UK-wide pattern of geographical distribution of students at universities within a certain radius from home). Part time students, in contrast, have always had a strongly local aYliation. 14. In broad terms, the latest figures for full-time students (AY 2006/07) show, for undergraduates, and for all students (including postgraduates), the following distribution in terms of domicility and country of study. It is evident that there is very substantial movement of students in both directions across the Wales- England border.
FULL-TIME UNDERGRADUATE ENROLMENTS AT UK INSTITUTIONS BY DOMICILE AND COUNTRY OF INSTITUTION 2006–07
Country of Country of institution domicile England Wales Scotland Northern Ireland Total
England 840,249 26,525 14,073 254 881,101 Wales 17,531 32,946 405 15 50,897 Scotland 5,342 165 93,470 38 99,015 Northern Ireland 7,598 276 4,335 28,322 40,531 Other EU 41,729 2,295 6,914 1,547 52,485 Other overseas 73,359 3,796 6,918 545 84,618 Total 985,808 66,003 126,115 30,721 1,208,647
PERCENTAGES
Country of Country of institution domicile England Wales Scotland Northern Ireland Total
England 85% 40% 11% 1% 73% Wales 2% 50% 0% 0% 4% Scotland 1% 0% 74% 0% 8% Northern Ireland 1% 0% 3% 92% 3% Other EU 4% 3% 5% 5% 4% Other overseas 7% 6% 5% 2% 7% Total 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% Source: HESA Student Record 2006–07.
FULL-TIME ENROLMENTS AT UK INSTITUTIONS BY DOMICILE AND COUNTRY OF INSTITUTION 2006–07
Country of Country of institution domicile England Wales Scotland Northern Ireland Total
England 932,341 28,378 15,847 318 976,884 Wales 19,394 37,081 484 16 56,975 Scotland 6,939 219 104,235 52 111,445 Northern Ireland 8,606 307 4,578 30,595 44,086 Other EU 66,145 3,338 9,813 2,041 81,337
19 Reaching Higher: http://new.wales.gov.uk/topics/educationandskills/policy strategy and planning/further and higher education/ reaching higher/?lang%en 20 The Assembly’s Science Policy 2006: http://new.wales.gov.uk/about/departments/dein/publications/science-policy-2006?lang%en 21 One Wales: http://new.wales.gov.uk/about/strategy/strategypublications/strategypubs/onewales/?lang%en Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Country of Country of institution domicile England Wales Scotland Northern Ireland Total
Other overseas 154,211 7,856 17,836 1,088 180,991 Total 1,187,636 77,179 152,793 34,110 1,451,718
PERCENTAGES
Country of Country of institution domicile England Wales Scotland Northern Ireland Total
England 79% 37% 10% 1% 67% Wales 2% 48% 0% 0% 4% Scotland 1% 0% 68% 0% 8% Northern Ireland 1% 0% 3% 90% 3% Other EU 6% 4% 6% 6% 6% Other overseas 13% 10% 12% 3% 12% Total 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% Source: HESA Student Record 2006–07. 15. Wales has the highest proportion of all UK Administrations of full-time students from outside the country of institution (50% of full-time undergraduates at Welsh HEIs come from outside Wales). The majority of these come from England (80%). In contrast, over 70% of full-time undergraduates at English, Scottish and Northern Irish institutions come from the country of institution. 16. With the introduction of variable top up fees in England in 2006–07, and Wales in 2007–08, it was to be expected that there might be some disturbance of traditional patterns of student movement. The fact that the eventual support settlement for Welsh (and EU) domiciled students studying in Wales diVered from that for students from other domiciles was likely to add to this disturbance (students who normally live in Wales and study at a Welsh University are able to receive a non-means tested fee grant of up to £1,890 a year, which does not have to be repaid).
The underlying accepted applicants trend 17. InsuYcient time has elapsed since the variable fee developments to be fully confident about trends. There is, however, some early evidence that the market may have shifted, in that the proportion of full-time undergraduates accepted to Welsh institutions who are Welsh domiciled has seen an increase over the last three years, from 48% in 2005–06 to 53% in 2007–08. There is a corresponding decrease in the proportion of accepted applicants of English domicile to institutions in Wales. 18. The proportions of accepted applicants that come from the country of institution do not show the same pattern in England and Scotland as they do in Wales, with the proportion of accepted applicants to English institutions who are English domiciled being 85% in both 2005–06 and 2007–08 and the proportion of accepted applicants to Scottish institutions who are Scottish domiciled decreasing from 72% to 70%. In Northern Ireland, the proportion of accepted applicants who were from Northern Ireland went from 91% in 2005–06 to 92% in 2007–08, and was 94% in 2006–07. 19. Accepted applicants to Welsh HEIs from Wales were the only group that applied to institutions in their country of domicile to show an increase in 2006–07. The overall number of accepted applicants to Welsh HEIs also increased in 2006–07 compared to 2005–06. In contrast, the overall number of accepted applicants to other UK countries decreased for each country in 2006–07. Comparing 2005–06 to 2007–08, accepted applicants to Welsh, English and Scottish institutions increased, by 4%, 2% and 1% respectively.
ACCEPTED APPLICANTS TO FULL-TIME UNDERGRADUATE COURSES AT UK INSTITUTIONS BY DOMICILE AND COUNTRY OF INSTITUTION, 2005–06, 2006–07, 2007–08
Country of Country of institution domicile Year England Wales Scotland Northern Ireland Total
England 2005–06 287,909 9,482 4,287 120 301,798 2006–07 277,237 8,302 3,599 91 289,229 2007–08 294,533 8,483 3,814 129 306,959 Wales 2005–06 6,324 10,400 132 7 16,863 2006–07 5,434 11,616 94 4 17,148 2007–08 5,306 11,945 108 7 17,366 Scotland 2005–06 1,881 64 25,710 18 27,673 2006–07 1,743 58 24,988 13 26,802 2007–08 1,754 44 25,395 25 27,218 Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Country of Country of institution domicile Year England Wales Scotland Northern Ireland Total
Northern Ireland 2005–06 3,174 109 1,257 9,370 13,910 2006–07 2,995 110 1,231 8,049 12,385 2007–08 3,203 101 1,114 8,583 13,001 Republic of Ireland 2005–06 1,437 278 775 687 3,177 2006–07 1,352 249 727 347 2,675 2007–08 1,215 185 701 471 2,572 Other EU 2005–06 11,988 408 1,654 20 14,070 2006–07 12,936 494 2,157 18 15,605 2007–08 14,793 594 2,686 16 18,089 Other overseas 2005–06 24,777 912 2,126 63 27,878 2006–07 23,557 920 2,522 47 27,046 2007–08 24,377 1,136 2,657 55 28,225 Total 2005–06 337,490 21,653 35,941 10,285 405,369 2006–07 325,254 21,749 35,318 8,569 390,890 2007–08 345,181 22,488 36,475 9,286 413,430 Source: UCAS
The trend in applications 20. Applications to Wales have also increased, with a 15% increase between 2004–05 and 2006–07. Over the same period, applications to England increased by 5%. Applications from Welsh domiciles to Wales increased by 29%, whilst the percentage of applications from English domiciles to Wales increased to a lesser extent, by 8%. Applications to England from Welsh domiciles decreased by 5% whilst those from English domiciles increased, by 6%.
APPLICATIONS TO FULL-TIME UNDERGRADUATE COURSES AT ENGLISH AND WELSH INSTITUTIONS BY DOMICILE AND COUNTRY OF INSTITUTION, 2004–05, 2005–06, 2006–07
Percentage Country of Country of change 2004–05 Institution Domicile 2004–05 2005–06 2006–07 to 2006–07
Wales Wales 32,927 36,575 42,480 29% England 48,744 54,258 52,470 8% Other UK 1,380 1,558 1,737 26% Total UK 83,051 92,391 96,687 16% Other EU 3,918 4,289 4,638 18% Other overseas 6,492 7,229 6,358 "2% Total 93,461 103,909 107,683 15% England Wales 43,820 45,780 41,812 "5% England 1,412,955 1,548,736 1,492,320 6% Other UK 34,600 37,819 35,699 3% Total UK 1,491,375 1,632,335 1,569,831 5% Other EU 76,717 91,352 97,458 27% Other overseas 180,995 185,570 168,311 "7% Total 1,749,087 1,909,257 1,835,600 5% Source: UCAS 21. In partnership with Higher Education Wales, we are exploring further the question of cross-border application patterns. It is a complex issue, and one on which it is important to be clear about the reality of any changing trends. 22. To the extent that real changes are confirmed, cross-border changes in the fees and student support arrangements may be part of the explanation. 23. So too, however, may be another factor. It is essential to the purpose of devolution to take distinctive approaches to issues, the better to serve local needs. That being so, this distinctiveness may have consequences when applied to activities that span the boundary of administrative divisions. It is not impossible that, if there is indeed a shift in the perception of an England-Wales market, it may be connected to perceptions of this distinctiveness in Welsh policy. We return to this point in the discussion of funding below. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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24. It is worth adding that we have good subject coverage in Welsh HEIs, the main exception being Veterinary Science, and so we do not think that application trends are being significantly driven by diVerential availability of subjects across the UK.
Arrangements in Place to Coordinate Cross-border HE Provision 25. Since 1992, the HE funding councils have recognised the reality, at some level, of a UK-wide HE market in terms of domestic, and international, students (and also staV). They have, therefore, sought to ensure that each other is well informed about locally distinctive aspects of HE policy, doing so via cross- observer status on each other’s boards, twice-yearly meetings between their chairs and chief executives, and regular dialogue between oYcers. 26. They have also recognised that certain functions are best delivered on a broadly UK-wide basis, either in order to ensure consistency of delivery standards, or to seek economies of scale, or both. Examples include teaching quality assurance, research assessment, professionalisation of teaching, data gathering, and IT network infrastructure. There is also recognition of a common market in terms of staV pay and conditions, and values such as respect for academic freedom and institutional autonomy. These in turn are rooted in a deep-seated appreciation that higher education in the UK as a whole operates in a tough international competitive environment for students, staV, research standing, and so on. All the funding bodies keep these considerations firmly in mind, as well as bending their energies to the policy ambitions of their local territories. 27. To this end, funding council oYcers participate in standing groups established by themselves, or by the sector, across the UK. Examples of such pan-UK activities include: Association of Heads of University Administration (AHUA) British Universities’ Finance Directors Group (BUFDG) Estate Management Statistics & Space Management Groups Equality Challenge Unit Funders Forum (DIUS) HE and Public Engagement Steering Group Higher Education and Research Opportunities in the UK Higher Education Academy Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) High Level Policy Forum (Europe Unit) Joint Information Systems Committee Leadership Foundation for Higher Education Measuring and Recording Student Achievement (Burgess Group) Quality Assurance Agency (QAA) Research Assessment Exercise (RAE) 2008 Steering Group Research Councils (individual Concordat meetings) SKILL (National Bureau for Students with Disabilities) Supporting Professionalism in Admissions (SPA) Steering Group Sustainability Integration (SIGnet) Group Teaching Quality Information Groups UK Higher Education Performance Indicators Steering Committee UK Healthcare Education Advisory Committee UKERNA (JANET network) 28. In addition, the Training and Development Agency (TDA) for Schools in England is contracted by the Welsh Assembly Government to promote teaching as a career in Wales. This enables major publicity media campaigns to cover Wales, in both the English and Welsh mediums. The TDA has appointed a Teacher Adviser, Wales to work with providers of Initial Teacher Training, and other partners, to ensure a Welsh dimension to the TDA’s recruitment work in Wales. 29. We also engage from time to time in studies that specifically address cross-border issues. For example, in 2003 a question arose about the provision of HE in the Marches. HEFCE invited HEFCW to join in a review of provision in Herefordshire, Powys and Shropshire, resulting in a report published by HEFCE in 2005.22 30. Informal dialogue also takes place between the English and Welsh funding councils about other possibilities, as they arise from time to time, concerning potential cross-border collaborative (and sometimes also competitive) activity between institutions. The two councils are clear that, where a good case exists according to each council’s criteria and policy environment, there should be no impediment to joint funding. Each council would be able to fund only that part of the activity that fell within its jurisdiction, but it ought to be possible to fit together an English-funded element with a Welsh-funded element, to make a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts.
22 Options for higher education in Herefordshire, Powys and Shropshire, available at: http://www.hefce.ac.uk/pubs/rdreports/2005/rd07 05/ Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Funding of Cross-border HE Services
31. Where activities, as illustrated above, are organised on a joint basis across the funding councils, or indeed across a wider set of partners, funding is managed jointly according to negotiated shares. For purposes of good governance and accountability, it is usually agreed that one council (typically HEFCE) will act as lead on behalf of the others, with the others maintaining close interest in developments via some form of funders group.
32. There is well established custom and practice in these matters, so that usually the main focus of discussion is about the nature of the activity and the deliverables sought, rather than about the partition of funding or the governance arrangements.
33. There is another dimension of funding, however, that merits some mention. We refer here to the consequence of devolution that decisions about funding for higher education, be it for institutions or for student support, are now made according to local criteria in the four territories of the UK. This necessary consequence of devolution opens up the possibility of (potentially significant) divergence, not only in the specific priorities to be attached to particular aspects of HE, but also in the overall levels of funding available in the four territories. Given our earlier discussion of possible developments in the behaviour of the student market, it is easy to see that perceptions of relative levels of funding, with implications for such things as facilities, quality of buildings, attractiveness to staV (and hence also to students), and so on, could over time have profound consequences. It follows that, were such divergences to become significant, the picture we have presented above would change.
Research Funding
34. This paper has concentrated on cross-border services as related to students. It is worth adding, though, that there continues to be a strong sense of a UK-wide community, but with a strong local focus as well, over research, knowledge exchange, and other “third mission” activity.
35. Concordats between the Welsh Assembly Government and each of the Research Councils provide for annual meetings to discuss strategies and priorities, and to consider the performance of Welsh HE in winning funding. There is a well-established pattern of Wales winning a lower share (typically about 3.5%) of research council income than might be expected from its relative scale. HEFCW works with the Research Councils to try to address this issue by, for example bringing them into Wales to address meetings of senior university research leaders and managers and by seeking to foster better research performance within the sector.
36. HEFCW’s underlying strategy for research, with a strong emphasis on reconfiguration and collaboration, is also leading to significant new research groupings, with greater mass and scope, with the aim of increasing competitiveness. Notable steps in this respect include the merger of CardiV University and the University of Wales College of Medicine, the Aberystwyth-Bangor Research and Enterprise Partnership, the Wales Institute for Cognitive Neuroscience, the Wales Institute of Mathematical and Computational Sciences, the Low Carbon Research Institute, and the Wales Institute of Social and Economic Data and Methods.
37. In addition, we work closely with the other funding councils over major research issues, such as the joint running of the RAE and the planning of the Research Excellence Framework. The Assembly Government and HEFCW also participate actively in the DIUS-led UK-wide research Funders Forum, which serves to maintain a UK-wide perspective on overall levels of funding, CSR submissions, full economic costing, research careers, and many other matters.
38. Reference to DIUS leads to a final observation about research. The establishment of this new department sharpens considerably, in a welcome way, the focus on innovation across the entire UK, and also the attention given to universities within government in England. However, there is likely, in the nature of an organisational development of this kind, to be an inclination to seek to pull more closely together the UK-wide dimensions of DIUS’s work (principally through the Research Councils and the Technology Strategy Board) and the England-only dimensions (principally, for this discussion, HEFCE). This would be understandable, but from the perspective of devolved parts of the UK it does carry a potential risk. This is that the desire for greater strategic coherence might take insuYcient account of the diversity of agendas across the UK, and so result in too “England-oriented” a focus for the “UK-facing” aspects of the work of DIUS. This is a risk which will require sensitive handling by all parties. In this regard, the reassertion of the value of the dual support system in the March 2008 DIUS White Paper, Innovation Nation, is welcome, with its reference to how the two arms of the system “combine to drive excellence in the research base with flexibility to respond to changes and opportunities” (para 5.13). What is important, from a devolved perspective, is to maintain the UK-wide focus of the Research Council arm. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Conclusion 39. As devolution of government across the UK leads to increasingly divergent policy positions, the higher education funding councils play challenging roles in seeking to marry their local HE provision into wider local policy ambitions while also maintaining suYcient commonality and competitive strength to support reasonable movement of students and staV into and across what remains a recognisably UK HE system. Finding a way to maintain that balance, in the face of existing and potential patterns of student and staV mobility, will be critical to the future of higher education in Wales, and to the ambitions of the Welsh Assembly Government. 20 March 2008
Memorandum submitted by Higher Education Wales
About Higher Education Wales (HEW) HEW represents the interests of Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) in Wales and is a National Council of Universities UK. HEW’s Governing Council consists of the Vice-Chancellors and Principals of all the HEIs in Wales. HEW provides an expert resource on all aspects of Welsh higher education. Universities in Wales represent a fast growing sector of the economy contributing an increasing share of our national economy. For every £1 million invested in HE by the National Assembly in 2005–06 universities contributed £5.3 million to the Welsh economy.23 The HE sector in Wales: — had a turnover of over £1 billion in 2006–07; — generated a £2 billion output to the Welsh economy including direct multiplier eVects; — gained export earnings for Wales of £170 million, including £65 million from EU/overseas research grants and £104 million in fees and “knock-on” expenditure from international students; and — earned £121 million in total research grants for Wales and over £205 million from contracts and other income streams.
Introduction 1. HEW welcomes the opportunity to give evidence to the Welsh AVairs Select Committee’s inquiry on the provision of cross border services for Wales. In many respects, Higher Education represents the paradigm of a “cross border” public service—locally delivered by institutions grounded in their communities but with horizons focused beyond the borders of Wales and the UK. 2. Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) in Wales see their local, national and global missions as being complementary and mutually enriching. Higher learning thrives on cross border and interdisciplinary research—where ideas and concepts are tested and cross-fertilised. It is to the manifest advantage of all that learning, knowledge and scholarship are no respecters of national boundaries—within or without the UK. Diversity in a university faculty and the student body brings significant advantages in fostering an outward facing learning and research environment. It is in this positive vein that we oVer our evidence to the Welsh AVairs Select Committee inquiry on cross border services. 3. The intrinsically cross border nature of higher education has intensified as a result of the rapid internationalisation of HE in recent years—a trend which will accelerate rather than abate. Many universities in Wales now recruit a third or more of their academic staV from beyond the UK. Global charities and foundations are increasingly important sources of research income. Multinational corporations are increasingly footloose when locating their global research and development centres. Universities have entered a new age in which cross border activities are absolutely pivotal to their long term success. Universities in Wales have embraced this process and have welcomed the opportunities that cross border working provides in helping to build a knowledge based economy in Wales. 4. As our “About HEW” section above demonstrates HE in Wales is, on many key indicators, performing very well for Wales in securing cross border income from business and other external sources. However, this success has been achieved in spite of, rather than because of, the HE investment policies of successive Assembly Governments since 2001–02 as section (v) of this submission shows. 5. The Higher Education Funding Council for Wales’s (HEFCW) evidence to the Select Committee has provided much of the background statistical evidence on the cross border elements of Higher Education in Wales. HEW will therefore focus on six cross border policy issues and put forward specific proposals to ensure that these issues are handled in a more eVective manner by policy makers in Wales and across the UK.
23 Other than turnover figures the statistics in this section relate to 2005–06. The HEW evidence to the Assembly’s Enterprise & Learning Committee’s Inquiry into the Economic Contribution of HE provides more details on these impacts: http://www.assemblywales.org/bus-home/bus-committees/bus-committees-third-els-home/bus-committees-third-els- agendas.htm?act%dis&id%66756&ds%11/2007. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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(i) Cross border issues in research policy 6. HEW wishes to emphasise the importance of maintaining the dual support system within the UK higher education system. This dual support system has two elements. The “Wales end” of the dual support system is government investment in teaching and research, channelled through the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills (DIUS) in England and the devolved administrations in Wales and Scotland. The three national HE funding councils in Wales, England and Scotland—which operate on an “arms length” basis—then allocate grant to universities in their territories. The devolved administrations receive funding as a result of Barnett formula “consequentials” related to the level of DIUS HE spending in England—but are then free to decide how much or how little investment to channel to HE through their respective HE funding councils. Allocations to universities from the national funding councils are distributed largely by formula in the areas of teaching, research and economic development (often called Third Mission). 7. The “UK end” of the dual support system is investment allocated to universities and national research institutes by DIUS across the UK through GO-Science,24 the Technology Strategy Board and the seven UK Research Councils. UK Research Council funding is not allocated according to a formula but is based on a rigorous grant application process. DIUS science funding is allocated to universities across the UK through the respective national HE funding councils, though according to an agreed UK funding formula. This UK funding was allocated until 2008–09 in the “Science and Research Infrastructure Fund” (SRIF) and from 2008–09 such funding will be allocated via a new “Capital Investment Fund”. 8. Universities in Wales therefore have two sources of research funding under the dual support system. Firstly, they have formula-based allocations based on RAE25 scores distributed by HEFCW. Secondly, universities in Wales apply competitively for funding with universities across Britain for research grants (totalling £2.8 billion a year) from the UK Research Councils (eg the Medical Research Council and the Economic and Social Research Council). Funding for the UK Research Councils comes from the UK Government alone. 9. Despite this division of responsibility there appears to have been a culture in some Whitehall departments that aspects of HE policy which are legally devolved but have an essential UK dimension do not require consultation with the devolved administrations. For example, there has been a recent tendency by the UK Government to take unilateral decisions in relation to research assessment policy, which though devolved, can only be organised on a UK basis to be eVective. In March 2006 the Treasury announced a radical change of policy in relation to research assessment policy (which had been conducted as part of the RAE process) in which peer review was to be removed from the assessment system altogether26—against the advice of most independent policy specialists. This decision was reached without consultation with the Assembly Government or the Scottish Executive. Though neither Wales nor Scotland could be compelled to join such arrangements, the nature of UK research assessment left Wales and Scotland little option but to participate in a system the devolved administrations had little role in designing. 10. Since this announcement on a new research assessment system in 2006 the UK Government has gradually adjusted its policy on research assessment in the wake of an “evidence based” critique from many quarters. Indeed, DIUS announced recently there will be a peer review element to research assessment across all academic disciplines including the “hard” sciences.27 This is a welcome development but as this illustration indicates, a policy making process that involves consultation with the devolved administrations on matters that have clear cross border ramifications can help to improve the policy making process.
(ii) Cross border issues in relation to science policy 11. Responsibilities for science policy in Wales are shared between the UK Government and the Welsh Assembly Government (WAG). On the one hand WAG funds research conducted in science departments in Welsh universities through HEFCW (via “Quality Related” grant, the Research Infrastructure Fund and the Reconfiguration and Collaboration Fund). This investment, strictly speaking, comes under the heading of “HE research”, which is devolved and as such, WAG receives a Barnett formula “consequential”. On the other hand “science policy” in a stricter sense is a UK Government responsibility for which the Assembly Government receives no specific Barnett formula monies. 12. Despite this joint responsibility for science, the Assembly Government issued its own strategic document—A Science Policy for Wales (2006)28—that set out the Assembly’s vision for science in Wales. This Assembly science policy set out certain key priority areas for science research in Wales. However, this new Assembly science policy lacked any additional funding for the science base in Wales from the UK or Assembly Governments. This situation has not altered in the three year budget allocations (2008–09 to 2010–11) announced in the Assembly Budget confirmed in January 2008. This lack of a strategic science fund
24 The “Government OYce for Science” based in DIUS—formerly the OYce of Science and Innovation. 25 The “Research Assessment Exercise” which measures research excellence according to peer review and other indicators. 26 The March 2006 HM Treasury proposals on research assessment proposed that all Funding Council research allocations be based the results of quantitative bibliometric indicators. 27 http://new.wales.gov.uk/about/departments/dein/publications/science-policy-2006?lang%en 28 http://new.wales.gov.uk/about/departments/dein/publications/science-policy-2006?lang%en Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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to underpin the Assembly policy was agreed in spite of the clear recommendation of the National Assembly’s Enterprise Committee in 2006 that significant additional investment in the science infrastructure in Wales was necessary.29 13. Assembly Ministers have stated that lack of a new science investment fund to support the new science policy is due to the fact that science policy is not strictly devolved. This would not prevent WAG from establishing a science investment fund using its general executive powers.30 There are also clear precedents where the UK Government has invested directly in strategic science projects in regions of England in recent years,31 for which Barnett “consequentials” would not have come to Wales. Moreover, we are not aware of equivalent investments by the UK Government in Wales. 14. HEW therefore believes that the Welsh Assembly Government (WAG) should be working closely with DIUS to explore the potential for a joint WAG/DIUS science investment fund and/or the location of a DIUS “strategic science site” in Wales (as has been developed in the North West and in Oxfordshire). HEW does not believe that suYcient policy collaboration in this area of cross border policy responsibility is occurring between WAG and DIUS, despite the recent appointment of an (interim and part time) Assembly Chief Scientific OYcer.32 This need for strategic investment by the UK Government is especially important as Wales has a very low number of UK Government funded National Research Institutes compared to parts of England. 15. Northern Ireland has recently been granted significant new investment—above and beyond the Barnett formula—by the UK Government to enhance collaborative research in the form of a new Northern Ireland Innovation Fund.33 This investment will total £500 million over a number of years. No equivalent “above Barnett formula” investment on innovation from the UK Government has been forthcoming for Wales, despite the fact that Wales has lower Gross Value Added per head than Northern Ireland. While appreciating the political reasons for pump priming research in Northern Ireland, the fact that Wales is the poorest part of the UK and the least productive part of Britain34 should also justify strategic investment measures from the UK Government—as has been the case in English regions (eg Daresby) on occasion. 16. Such a joint WAG/DIUS approach to science policy in Wales is particularly important because the One Wales Government’s first budget (approved in January 2008) does not contain indicative allocations even in 2010–11 for the One Wales commitments to establish a National Science Academy or a National Institute for Health Research. Without additional investment, these new entities will either have no impact or have to be created from resources “top sliced” from the existing (and deficient) HE budget in Wales. In particular we are concerned that the Assembly Government’s interim Chief Scientific OYcer has not been charged with looking at how the Assembly’s science policy can be implemented in concert with the extant DIUS policies on science and innovation, or look at how a new National Science Academy could develop the Welsh science base. 17. Higher Education Wales is therefore concerned that the cross border policy responsibility for science in Wales is not receiving the necessary fiscal priority from either the UK or Welsh Assembly Governments to enable a step change in the development in a knowledge based economy in Wales. This issue needs to be addressed urgently by the two governments given the overlapping nature of funding and legal responsibilities in this crucial area. In summary, HEW is asking that WAG and DIUS Ministers to work together to explore the potential for a Strategic Science Fund for Wales in order to develop the science base in Wales.
(iii) Cross border issues and health policy 18. HEW would wish to see a greater degree of policy co-ordination between the UK administrations on the issue of workforce planning for health professionals given that there is, in eVect, a single labour market for health professionals across the UK. Proposals to radically reform medical education in England, for instance, must be made in consultation with those organising medical education in the devolved administrations if the NHS, as a coherent UK entity, is to remain. 19. Cross border coordination of health research—funded by the Medical Research Council at a UK level and by the NHS at a devolved level—is also vital for universities in Wales. NHS Wales Research and Development in Wales (funded by the Assembly) runs at about half the proportionate level of that in
29 http://www.assemblywales.org/606d2dc8f8b45dc7c9854cfec2b0d5ae.pdf Enterprise Committee Report “A Review of Science Policy in Wales”, page 50, point 10. 30 Indeed, the North West Development Agency—a mere regional quango—has established its own Science Investment Fund in recent years. 31 The DTI’s OYce of Science and Innovation directly invested at least £8m of UK Government science funding money in the Daresby Science Park, to supplement large allocations made by the UK Research Councils. See Note 1 in the DTI press release here: http://www.interactions.org/cms/?pid%1024417 32 The interim Assembly Chief Scientific OYcer (CSO) has primarily been charged with scoping the role of a permanent Assembly CSO. 33 See HM Treasury Press Release 35/07: http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/newsroom and speeches/press/2007/Press 35 07.cfm 34 See the Report from Boddy, Prof M, Hudson, J, Plumridge, A and Webber, D of the University of the West of England and the University of Bath to the Welsh Assembly Government’s Economic Research Advisory Panel entitled “Understanding Productivity variations between Wales and the rest of the UK” (Nov 2006): http://new.wales.gov.uk/docrepos/40382/40382313/293077/40382322021/res-productvar.pdf?lang%en Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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England, putting Welsh clinical departments at a competitive disadvantage when bidding for other UK and European research grants. In this area it is also important that the new UK OYce for the Strategic Coordination of Health Research (OSCHR—which was set up in the wake of the Cooksey Report35) takes the views and priorities of health researchers in Wales fully on board before recommending its strategic approach to clinical research across the UK.
(iv) Cross border issues and student flows 20. Welsh universities are particularly successful in attracting students from the rest of the UK and increasingly successful in retaining graduates in Wales.36 HEFCW’s evidence to the committee outlines in detail the current position in relation to cross border flows of students. As HEFCW notes, HEW is jointly conducting research with the funding council on reasons why students apply to universities in Wales and monitoring any emerging trends in cross border student applications and acceptances. 21. Cross border flows of students have the potential to benefit the Welsh economy. Universities in Wales do well for our nation by attracting a net 9,000 students from the rest of the UK into Wales in 2005–06. Once student expenditure and multiplier eVects are factored in these 9,000 students generated a £52 million output to the Welsh economy.37 22. It is also worth noting that Wales’s success in attracting students from across the rest of the UK and beyond will become increasingly important as the eVects of demographic change in the 18–21 age group takes place. According to newly published projections England is the only part of Britain that can expect any growth in home full time undergraduate student numbers (!3.3%) by 2027 while Wales and Scotland will face reductions of "2.0% and "3.6% respectively. As a Universities UK commissioned report on demographics concludes, this relative change “may lead to increased cross border flows especially to HEIs in Scotland and Wales”.38 23. Given these projections, it is important to bear in mind the potentially negative consequences of policy measures to engineer a more “insular” Welsh undergraduate student market, as this could lead to considerable diYculties in maintaining overall student numbers at universities in Wales. This point is also particularly important because, unlike DIUS (which has announced 60,000 more funded full time student places in England39) and the Scottish Government,40 the Assembly Government has announced no policy of expanding full time funded student places. The Assembly Government has also expressed scepticism about the need for adult skills targets as recommended in the Leitch Report41 and has referred the issue to its new Wales Employment and Skills Board for future consideration. As the Leitch skills targets have the potential to drive policy and investment decisions in Wales, Higher Education Wales would be concerned if Wales did not adopt a high level skills participation target at a time when England was pursuing targets that are even more ambitious than those set out in the Leitch Report.42
(v) HE Funding—A cross border “cost base” tied to diverging investment policies 24. A very large proportion of the cost base for universities in Wales is determined by collective agreements made at a UK level—be they in relation to pay or pension costs. Universities in Wales therefore manage a paradoxical situation whereby their cost base is largely fixed at a UK level while their funding allocations are agreed at a Wales level. This particular challenge has occurred at a time when there is an increasing divergence across the UK in the relative levels of HE funding—with Scotland and England pursuing a policy of investing in HE while the Assembly Government has chosen to freeze the HE unit of resource in real terms since 2001–02.
35 For more information see: www.nihr.ac.uk/about oschr.aspx 36 According to the most recent figures Wales retains a greater proportion of graduates than seven out of nine English regions outperforming “equivalent” regions in England such as the South West or the North East. Also notable is the fact that more than two thirds of postgraduates stay to work in Wales—a higher rate than all but one English region, including London. See table 2 in the HESA/Assembly Government publication: “Destination of Leavers from HE in Wales” published in February 2008: http://new.wales.gov.uk/docrepos/40382/40382313/statistics/post16/post162008/sb6-2008a.pdf?lang%en 37 Estimates based data from the Student Expenditure Survey with multiplier eVects calculated according to a University of Strathclyde econometric model. 38 See p 38 of the UUK Report “The Future Size and Shape of the HE sector in the UK” Universities UK (2008). http://bookshop.universitiesuk.ac.uk/downloads/size and shape.pdf 39 See the DIUS Secretary of State’s January 2008 Letter to HEFCE:http://www.hefce.ac.uk/news/HEFCE/2008/grant/ letter.htm 40 Which announced a small increase in funded student places for 2008–09 in its circular http://www.sfc.ac.uk/information/ info circulars/sfc/2008/sfc1008/sfc1008.html, despite a static 18–21 year old demographic cohort. 41 See comments critical of the concept of national adult skills targets as recommended by the Leitch Report from the acting Director of the Department of Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills on 16 April 2008 at the Assembly’s Enterprise and Learning Committee (p 22–23). http://www.assemblywales.org/bus-home/bus-committees/bus-committees-third1/bus-committees-third-els-home/bus- committees-third-els-agendas/el20080416qv.pdf?langoption%3&ttl%EL%283%29-10-08%20%3A%20Transcript%20%28 PDF%2C%20190kb%29 42 DIUS has announced an additional interim level 4 skills all age attainment target of 34% in England by 2014. See: http://www.dfes.gov.uk/skillsstrategy/uploads/documents/World%20Class%20Skills%20FINAL.pdf Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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25. This divergence in HE funding has led to the emergence of a growing investment gap between universities in Wales and those in Scotland and England. The size of the gap has grown to such an extent that it now represents 19% of total HE grant in Wales. An even larger investment gap exists between Wales and Scotland. A position of equal funding between the HE sectors in Wales and England in 2001–02 has rapidly deteriorated and developed into a substantial HE investment gap which totalled £61m in 2005–06 (the latest available figures) according to HEFCW statistics.43 26. The magnitude of the investment gap is set to grow further up to 2011 as a result of recent HE investment decisions in the three home nations. A Universities UK analysis of the HE settlements in Wales, Scotland and England as a result of CSR 2007 demonstrates that, for the third consecutive CSR period, the HE sector in Wales will receive the worst HE settlement in Britain. Given the nature of this recent HE settlement in Wales it is quite possible that the teaching unit of resource for universities in 2008–09 will be cut in real terms. At the same time, DIUS has guaranteed that the unit of resource in England will increase in real terms throughout the CSR period 2008–09 to 2010–11. 27. When all universities are facing an unprecedented series of cost pressures from increased pension costs, the costs of pay modernisation and a new pay settlement, the relative financial burden of the increasing “cross border” cost base on Welsh universities will be highly disproportionate as a result of the escalating investment gap. Such persistent underinvestment from the Assembly Government will significantly frustrate the ability of universities to create a knowledge economy at a time when Wales’s economic performance is lagging well behind the rest of the UK. 28. An important example of where diVerences in national HE policy could have an important impact on the ability of universities to thrive in the future is in the area of fundraising. In 2006 the UK Government announced that universities in England would benefit from a matched fundraising scheme under which donations to universities would be partly matched with monies from DIUS. The total financial support for fundraising in English HEIs would total £200m over the CSR period. 29. The Assembly Government has yet to announce a similar matched fundraising scheme in Wales. Cross border impacts of the decision to support giving to universities in England but not Wales may become clearer as the DIUS scheme comes into being. There are fears that charitable foundations or donors who may have considered giving to universities in Wales may not consider donating because their contribution would not be matched by government funds, whereas a donation in England would attract that support. This might have the eVect of displacing donations from universities in Wales—which would be a highly undesirable unintended consequence of choosing not to adopt a similar scheme. If the Assembly Government does establish a matched fundraising scheme in Wales it is crucial that funding for the scheme is not “top sliced” from existing Assembly investment plans for HE but is truly additional to planned expenditure.
(vi) Cross border issues and general HE policy coordination 30. In an area of public service delivery that has a crucial UK dimension the need to a develop policy with cross border ramifications in mind is essential. Devolution means that decisions on policy should rightly be made in Wales taking into account Welsh needs, but this should not discourage voluntary policy coordination between the UK administrations where the nature of the policy area concerned has crucial cross border elements. As we have seen, decisions in Scotland, Wales and England have clear mutual impacts which merit discussion and careful consideration before major decisions are taken. 31. Though we note that the three HE Funding Councils meet regularly and frequently, we understand that there are not formal regular and frequent meetings of senior HE oYcials in DIUS, WAG and the Scottish Government at which emerging policy developments in the three home nations are systematically discussed. This does not seem to be a sensible state of aVairs and we hope that the Welsh AVairs Committee will recommend that proper formal channels between UK HE policy making oYcials are established as soon as possible. The nature of the UK Civil Service should allow such confidential discussion to take place. 32. The result of a wholesale review of Higher Education in England announced by the DIUS Secretary of State, John Denham, in February 200844 will doubtless have a huge cross border impact on Welsh universities. With ten major strands of work covering all aspects of HE, the DIUS review is both in-depth and wide ranging. Without proper input from the devolved administrations there is a danger that the DIUS review of HE in England may stray into areas of UK competence. This holistic HE review in England will also take place alongside the major review of the level of permissible “top up” fees in England beyond 2010. This decision on top up fees alone will have an enormous impact on universities in Wales and it is crucial that the impacts on, and potential policy responses to, such a decision in Wales should be considered very soon by the Assembly Government and HEFCW. 33. We have, as yet, had no statement or indication from the Assembly Government about how it will interact with or feed into the DIUS HE review. The Assembly Government’s Remit Letter to HEFCW— issued in March 2008 (after the DIUS HE review was announced)—also makes no mention of the DIUS
43 See: http://194.81.48.132/The Funding Gap 2005 06.pdf 44 See the speech by John Denham MP announcing the DIUS HE review here: http://www.dius.gov.uk/speeches/denham hespeech 290208.html Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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HE review or how WAG may contribute to or monitor the review. This is clearly a cause for concern for the HE sector in Wales. The involvement of the Assembly Government in the DIUS HE review could be very timely as the Education Minister, Jane Hutt AM, has announced a review of the HE performance targets contained in the Assembly Reaching Higher strategy (these targets are due to expire in 2010). 34. Direct discussions between the four UK Higher Education Ministers is therefore a key priority to ensure a basic level of policy coordination. HEW believes that it would be appropriate for the four HE Ministers to meet regularly and frequently to discuss cross border issues—especially during the period of the DIUS HE review. The Joint Ministerial Committee (JMC) with its “plenary” and “functional” committees was established after devolution in 1999 to enable cross border issues to be considered in the policy making process. 35. HEW is pleased to hear that, after a six year lapse, the JMC has now been re-established by the Secretary of State for Wales, Paul Murphy MP. We would suggest that the coordination of HE policy across the UK should be a top priority for the JMC in the next 18 months. In particular, we would wish to see a “functional” JMC established constituting the HE Ministers and senior oYcials of the four UK administrations to consider the future of HE policy in the light of pivotal decisions that will be made in 2009 or 2010 as a result of the these DIUS reviews. These are not pedantic points about processes—this seems to be the only formal and established way in which the substance of cross border HE impacts can be fully aired and factored into the decision making process. We hope that the Committee will echo this point in its final report.
Conclusion
36. Universities in Wales see the cross border nature of higher education both as a strength and a future opportunity. Indeed, the success of universities in Wales is dependent, not only on our ability to engender skills and prosperity in our local communities, but in our ability to secure cross border students, research funding and business partnerships which will in turn directly benefit our communities. 37. In order to optimise these cross border opportunities for Wales, universities need a policy framework at a Wales and UK level that facilitates this positive cross border activity and does not inhibit it. We trust that—as crucial decisions are made about the future of the HE sector by the Assembly Government and the UK Government—Ministers and oYcials at the diVerent levels of government will collaborate fully with each other and the HE sector to ensure that universities are assisted in our eVorts to create a learning society and a knowledge economy in Wales.
Memorandum submitted by Professor Deian Hopkin, Vice Chancellor and Chief Executive, London South Bank University
Section A: Executive Summary
1. The concept of employer-engagement in higher and further education, which features largely in current government policies in England, has evolved over a number of years since the Technical and Vocational Education Initiative (TVEI) and the Enterprise in Higher Education Programmes of the 1970s and 1980s. 2. Over the past few years, however, major investment has been made both by the Learning and Skills Council (LSC) and the Higher Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE); the former has placed greater emphasis on its Train to Gain (T2G) programmes while the latter is investing heavily both in business-industry interface and in trialling the notion of employer co-funding of higher education provision. A variety of other government departments and non-governmental agencies, including the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills (DIUS), the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (DBERR), the Department of Health, the Department of Work and Pensions and many others, also provide support for diVerent forms of employer engagement and business support. Universities, in particular, draw on a variety of diVerent sources for this work, including substantial private sector support. 3. This submission oVers an overview of the current arrangements for supporting employer-engagement and business support by both universities and further education colleges in England. It is not, however, a comprehensive review, nor does it oVer a complete spectrum of data. Instead, it points to some of the key developments which may interest the Welsh AVairs Select Committee. 4. The pace of change, moreover, is such that even the most fastidious examination of the present situation will not capture everything that is occurring. With over 140 institutions of higher education and Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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384 further education colleges in England, new initiatives are being announced on a weekly basis. The scale of the financial investments and incentives is such that most institutions are now engaged, in some form or another of employer engagement activity. 5. Particular emphasis is being placed on the development of Foundation Degrees, in which employers are key stakeholders, and in the provision of Continuous Professional Development. To this end, new curriculum developments are being seen with employability and business awareness becoming an ever-more important part of course content.
Section B: The Witness
6. I have been the Vice Chancellor and Chief Executive of London South Bank University since 2001. Over a 40 year career I have held academic posts in the University of London, Aberystwyth University, the Open University and at London Guildhall University where I was the Vice-Provost. I have also been a governor of two Further Education Colleges in London. 7. London South Bank University is an inner-city university, originally established as the Borough Polytechnic Institute in 1894. With over 24,000 students, it is substantially involved in professional, vocational and academic education at all levels of higher education. Some 8,000 individual students are trained and educated under NHS Contracts, while a large number of part-time students in engineering, science, the built environment and business are sponsored by their employers. The University has recently been awarded £3 million by HEFCE to establish and develop a dedicated Employer Engagement Unit alongside its existing Research and Business Development OYce. 8. I hold a number of positions in relation to the broad topic of the skills agenda, employer engagement and employability including Chair of Universities UK Skills Task Group and Joint-chair of the DCSF’s Higher Education Engagement Board. I am also a Board member of the Learning and Skills Council, Foundation Degree Forward and the London Skills and Employment Board, a member of the Council for Industry and Higher Education and serve on the DIUS Higher Level Skills board. 9. Over the past two years, as a member of Skills for Health SSC, I have chaired the new 14–19 Diploma in Society, Health and Development in which there is substantial employer involvement and I was appointed by the Secretary of State as HE Champion of the 14–19 Diplomas, alongside Sir Alan Jones of Toyota and Sir Mike Tomlinson, representing employers and schools respectively.
Section C: Factual Statement
Policy context
10. Interest in the skills agenda and the general issue of graduate employability has been a feature of the policy landscape for many years. From the TVEI initiative in the 1980s and Enterprise in Higher Education, launched in 1988, to the most recent HEFCE projects in employer engagement, a significant number of policy statements and strategy documents have been generated in England in order to shape the relation between university, business and employers. Most recently, a consultation has been launched over the DIUS Higher Level Skills strategy. 11. The Leitch Implementation Plan advised that “. . . all HE institutions need to grow their capacity to engage on a large scale with employers in ways adapted to their diVerent profiles and missions”. Individual institutions have responded according to their mission. For some universities, especially the former polytechnics, direct engagement with business and industry has been a core activity for many years, sometimes from their very inception. Now even research-intensive universities are seen taking a keener interest in the development of business-facing services; a casual examination of university web-sites shows that many universities oVer business services as an equivalent to academic and research activities. 12. It has become clear that any substantial expansion of higher education to meet the Leitch target of 40% of the workforce gaining level 4 attainment by 2020 can only be met by developing new modes of delivery, such as work-place education and training, and new ways of funding this enhanced provision. For this reason, HEFCE has been encouraged by the Government to explore the degree to which employers themselves may be prepared to contribute to the cost of higher education where there is a clear benefit to their own business. 13. A consultation has now been launched by DIUS, entitled Higher Education at Work—High Skills: High Value which seeks to align a number of strategic imperatives including the recently announced strategy on innovation (Innovation Nation) and the strategy on enterprise. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Implementation
The role of English funding councils 14. Both English funding councils, the LSC and HEFCE, have played a key role in encouraging the engagement of employers with further and higher education, not least through the development of special initiatives and programmes some of which are developed in cross-binary collaboration, between universities and colleges.
Train to Gain 15. The Learning and Skills Council has developed Train to Gain (T2G), a national (English) skills service to support employers of all sizes and in all sectors to improve the skills of their employees as a route to improving their business performance. The Service was launched nationally in August 2006. 16. Well over 400,000 people have engaged in learning funded through T2G since the launch of the service. Since April 2006 419,280 starts have been delivered with 174,330 Level 2 achievements (equivalent to five good GCSEs). Cumulatively there are now 183,370 confirmed starts in 2007–08. So far 84,270 employers have benefited from the service. It is expected that by the end of 2010, over 500,000 learners will have achieved a first full Level 2 qualification through Train to Gain. However, it is accepted that this still falls short of the targets which have been set, and currently around 74% of the expected profile has been achieved. 17. Associated with T2G is the Skills Pledge where employers agree to train their workforce to level 2. To date 2,590 employers have signed covering more than 3.7 million employees. 18. The total budget for T2G in the 2007–08 financial year is £527 million and £657 million in 2008–09 reaching approximately £1 billion in 2010–11. It is accepted, however that there is a current underspend on the budget and some considerable variations in take-up between regions and between employment sector. 19. Further education colleges are central to this provision and most, if not all, FE colleges in England are providing training; some colleges, indeed, have engaged very substantially, such as Newcastle College which has recently bought the major part of the private training provider, Carter and Carter, which delivers training in 100 centres nation-wide. 20. In the absence of cross-border arrangements, T2G is not available to Welsh companies and, generally, not open to Welsh learners. By the same token, an individual with an English domicile working in Wales would not be able to benefit from the scheme. 21. However, if a learner is employed across the border in an English-based company, then he/she can become a beneficiary. During 2006–07 a total of 498 registered learners were recorded as having Welsh domicile, which means that they were normally employed in England. However, the T2G oYce in Coventry believes a number of applicants were not able to benefit because they could not demonstrate that they were normally employed in England. 22. Train to Gain is now being trialled at level 4 and above (graduate) in three regions of England and it is anticipated that this will be rolled out substantially in the future within the further and higher education sector.
Higher Education Innovation Fund 23. In 1999 HEFCE established the Higher Education Reach-out to Business and the Community Fund (HEROBAC). In 2001 this evolved into the Higher Education Innovation Fund (HEIF). The aim of HEIF is to benefit the economy, and society, through helping to improve the products and services of industry through knowledge transfer from universities. Funding is designed to build capacity and provide incentives for higher education institutions (HEIs) to work with business, public sector bodies and third sector partners across a broad range of activities. 24. In the first round, projects were invited and subjected to a competitive process which led to 89 awards worth more than £77 million. Thereafter, the programme has grown rapidly. In 2003 the second round was announced, with a total of 124 awards totalling £186 million over two years, of which 46 were collaborations between more than one HE institution. Around £16 million of funding went to support a network of Centres for Knowledge Exchange. 25. In 2005 the third round was announced with total funding of £238 million. In this round, three quarters of the funding was allocated by formula based on data from the Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) and the HE-business and community interaction survey. All HEFCE-funded HEIs received an allocation on condition that they submit a plan setting out how they would use the funding to support knowledge transfer activities. The remaining quarter of the funding under HEIF 3 was allocated through a competition and eleven projects, all large-scale collaborative initiatives, were funded. 26. The latest round of allocations, from 1 August 2008, are formula based and amount to £396 million over three years. Individual annual allocations to institutions are capped at £1.9 million although the range of allocations over three years is between £300,000 for a very small institution to £5.38 million for the largest. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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27. Typically, a university can establish a dedicated unit to support business development, develop consultancy, encourage the development of intellectual property and its commercial application and foster enterprise and innovation within the institution. 28. The cumulative eVect of this investment in all English universities is that institutions have been able to develop substantial new business opportunities. It is too early to determine how sustainable some of these opportunities are, or what proportion of an university’s additional income is generated by such activity. This is complicated by the fact that business engagement can often lead to research contracts which cannot be easily disaggregated from general research income. 29. Nonetheless, it is widely recognised that the HEIF investment, together with KTP (see below) is enabling universities to explore new income streams which were not easily available in the past. 30. As with Train to Gain, Welsh universities are not part of the HEIF programme and it is not clear to what degree Welsh institutions have been able to develop collaborative programmes with English institutions in this respect.
HEFCE Employer engagement projects 31. The most recent initiative by HEFCE has been the development of Employer Engagement projects focussing on the concept of employer co-funded provision. In the Comprehensive Spending Review, £105 million was made available through HEFCE for supporting employer engagement initiatives in English universities between 2008–11. So far, 31 universities have been allocated funds, amounting to over £50 million, to pilot the development of co-funding arrangements. 32. The programme consists of two elements; a grant for revenue and capital to develop the capacity of an institution to develop employer engagement activity, and an allocation of Additional Student Numbers (ASN) which would be funded at up to 50% of the usual grant, with the remainder coming from an employer. The ASNs, however, would not be counted within the contract so that any shortfall would not be subject to a claw-back from the main funded student numbers. The prime purpose of the programme is to test the appetite by employers to co-fund provision which directly benefits them. 33. 5,000 ASNs were allocated in 2008–09 with a further 5,000 in each year to 2011. Grants have varied between £2.5 million and £8 million including a notional allocation for ASN fees. In parallel with this, a target of 100,000 Foundation Degree enrolments has been set which may include co-funded places. To date, more than 7,500 co-funded places have been contracted for 2008–09. 34. The 31 universities which have now been funded under this programme include institutions as varied as Leicester and London South Bank, De Montfort and Thames Valley. Some institutions, such as Derby, have managed to secure substantial further match-funding from their Regional Development Agency to enhance the programme. 35. Important new networks have been formed. The Higher Education Academy’s Exchange Group has been restructured as a forum for all HEFCE-funded Employer Engagement Projects, enabling networking to share common issues, identify and disseminate best practice and provision of collective feedback to HEFCE during the life of the projects. The group also facilitates an easy means of mass face-to-face communication between HEFCE and the individual projects. A network of Vice Chancellors has also been created and a dedicated senior oYcer is based at HEFCE to oversee the programme.
Lifelong Learning Networks 36. HEFCE has also invested £103 million in Lifelong Learning Networks (LLNs), to improve the opportunities open to learners with vocational qualifications for them to progress into and through higher education. There are now 29 LLNs, spanning 120 universities and 300 further education colleges. Many are collaborating with employers, particularly on curriculum design, and some are adopting innovative approaches to stimulating latent demand from employers and employees through new qualifications, credit accumulation, flexible work-based delivery, and accessible information, advice and guidance.
The UK Universities Continuous Professional Development (CPD) Network 37. Established in 2007, the CPD Network has recently been given a £386,000 grant by HEFCE to become a structured national network based in York. Evidence suggests that it has been diYcult for employers to identify which universities could provide the training they needed and who to contact within each institution. The CPD Network will assist UK universities to develop and deliver business focussed training programmes to support workforce development both nationally and internationally. Under the improved scheme, employers will be able to access a dedicated website and identify institutions which can meet their specific training needs. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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London Higher Level Skills Board 38. In partnership with the Learning and Skills Network and London First, London Higher has received funding of £346,000 from HEFCE to take forward the first phase of a major employer engagement project in and for London entitled “A Strategic Approach to Employer Engagement for HE in London”. Grant Thornton were appointed as consultants for this project following an Invitation to Tender exercise. 39. The core of the work consists of three research projects managed by London Higher to understand the demand from employers for higher level skills (HLS) in London, understanding the supply of HLS provision in London and oVering strategic solutions to the issues identified. The first report has been completed and this lays the foundation for future work. 40. The project is guided by the London Higher Skills Board (LHSB) chaired by the Executive Vice Chairman of Rothschild and consists of the heads of four universities and one FE College, with senior managers from Skillset SSC, Merrill Lynch, the Royal Mail, Tubelines, Accenture and Lloyds TSB, as well as the Learning and Skills Network, Foundation Degree Forward, HEFCE and the Greater London Authority. 41. It is anticipated that a second phase bid will be submitted in the summer in order to implement a strategy based on the findings; this will include brokerage, information points and communications strategies. HEFCE are paying close attention to this project to see if it should be replicated in other cities and regions in England.
Knowledge Transfer Partnerships 42. Knowledge Transfer Partnerships (KTP) grew out of the Teaching Company Scheme, established in 1975 by the then Science and Engineering Research Council, and based upon the teaching hospital idea— “learning by doing”. Nowadays, KTP covers most UK business sectors from engineering and science to the arts and media. The distribution of companies has seen the service sector continue to increase in importance, in line with general developments within the UK economy. In 2006 it accounted for 22% of the partnership portfolio. It is now Europe’s leading programme designed to assist business in improving competitiveness and productivity and is led by the Technology Strategy Board with 17 other funding organisations. 43. This particular initiative is open to Welsh institutions, and Gorseinon College in particular has been highly active.
Foundation Degrees 44. Foundation Degrees (FD), which are two year degrees without honours, have grown rapidly since their inception in 2003 and currently (2007–08) there are 71,915 students enrolled on 2,588 courses, of which 40,445 are new entrants. A further 762 are under development. In England, universities and colleges are able to gain Additional Student Numbers (ASN) at the standard tariV in order to develop FDs and HEFCE have announced a target of 100,000 by 2010 and it is expected that this will be reached. Expansion of Higher Education student numbers in England, moreover, will largely take place through FDs rather than standard honours degrees. 45. More than half of FDs are taught in further education colleges but universities are fundamentally involved in accreditation and quality assurance. Under new legislation, however, FE Colleges can have the power, if they wish, to award FDs themselves subject to oYcial approval. 46. Foundation Degree Forward (fdf) is funded by HEFCE to support the development and validation of high quality Foundation degrees and to support employer engagement across higher education programmes generally. 47. Employers are involved, in theory, in the development of FDs and through the provision of work- placements or, in many cases, work-based learning. There have been some questions about the degree to which this has always happened in the past, but indications are that employer-engagement is increasing substantially, with many new FDs emerging with named companies sponsoring them.
Sector Skills Council projects 48. HEFCE is also supporting particular programmes developed by Sector Skills Councils to address identified skills gaps. Examples include £7 million committed to support implementation by higher education providers of a new degree qualification developed in partnership with E-skills SSC. This is a four- year honours degree programme, BA IT Management for Business (ITMB) (Hons) created by leading international companies to ensure that graduates get the combination of business and technical skills that are vital to business today, and tomorrow. Major employers were involved in design and delivery including BT, CA, Ford, Fujitsu, HP, IBM, Lehman Brothers, Morgan Stanley, Norwich Union and Unilever. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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49. A further £2 million has been granted to support the setting up of Skillset higher education academies and more than 40 universities and colleges, in 2006, reported engagement with six leading SSCs— ConstructionSkills, Creative and Cultural skills, E-skills, Lifelong Learning UK, Skillset, and Skills for Health.
General exemplars of employer-engagement activities
50. There are a large number of exemplars of employer-engagement and business-facing activities by universities. A report by UniversitiesUK has shown that 90% of universities oVer tailor-made courses for business on their campuses; 80% oVer education on companies’ premises and 78% report that employers are actively engaged in the development of the curriculum. This includes Universities in Wales and Scotland. 51. Among the many current English examples which are proving interesting are the University of Hertfordshire’s acquisition of the local Business Link and the development of its “a revolving door with business”; the Automatic centre at Liverpool John Moores University; the five-stage UBIC Cycle of business and employer assistance at University of Derby Corporate; the Competitiveness Centre at Wolverhampton University; and CUE, one of the largest UK and European University enterprise organisations which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Coventry University and which employs 150 staV at the university’s Technology Park and in oYces in six continents.
Partnerships
52. The key to much of this new activity is the development of eVective partnerships with business or employer organisations. Historically, these have not always been particularly close across the higher education or further education sectors. 53. Recently however, following a membership campaign by the CBI and growing recognition of mutual interest, around 45 universities have joined the organisation and increasingly play a part in its deliberations and this promises to deliver increasing opportunities for engaging with business. It is interesting to note that this renewed relationship has followed the appointment of Richard Lambert as Director-General; he was, of course, responsible for an influential report into Business-University relations which suggested that there was, in fact, better relations and prospects than had hitherto been believed. 54. Relations with Sector Skills Councils (SSC), too, have begun to develop. Although SSCs have been in existence for six years, it is only recently that engagement between them and Higher Education has begun to expand. Until 2007 there were only 11 members of all 24 councils (amounting to several hundred members) who had higher education connections, and of those three were members of Lifelong Learning UK, the education SSC. 55. However, following a major conference organised by Universities UK on the Skills Agenda, there is visible improvement in contact. An informal group of SSC chief executives has been meeting with Vice Chancellors, and both Universities UK and the Sector Skills Network are represented on the new Higher Level Skills Implementation Group. 56. Individual SSCs are engaged with universities to a substantial degree. E-Skills UK, for example, oVer a four-year degree course, developed by member organisations such as Microsoft, Oracle, Nokia, IBM and others and now taught in 13 universities across the country. SkillsSet, the film and media SSC, has launched its own Academy of Film and Television and other SSCs, such as Skills for Health, have developed a close relationship with the sector. 57. Relations with employers’ professional organisations (eg CIBSE, CIB, RICS, RIBA) has in the past been based on the validation and monitoring of professionally-relevant courses. In recent years, however, this has begun to evolve in the direction of partnerships. For example, CIBSE (the organisation representing the Building Services industry) has begun to sponsor academic posts—eg LSBU chair in Building Services. Such partnerships are, at present, on a modest scale but may well grow in the future. 58. Beyond the Funding Councils, other agencies and organisations work with Universities and Colleges to develop aspects of their work in which employer-engagement is a key feature; these include Foundation Degree Forward, the Learning and Skills Network, the Higher Education Academy and the Council for Industry and Higher Education. Much more could be said about the role of each of these. 59. More generally, Universities UK, the body which represents all UK universities, has established a UK Employability, Business and Industry Strategy Group which acts as an observatory for these developments and regularly meets with key agencies, including Government ministers. The Skills Task Group is a part of this wider strategy group and acts as a conduit with SSCs and other agencies as well as preparing responses to consultations, as well as organising meetings and conferences. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Further Developments 60. The new 14–19 Diplomas, developed in partnership with employers through the Sector Skills Councils, who have been managing the process, will provide a new platform for employer-engagement. The curriculum of the 17 lines of learning which will be rolled out between 2008 and 2012, involves work- experience as well as key employment-related functional skills. Universities are increasingly involved in the development of the additional and specialised elements of the curriculum, especially at the advanced level. 61. The expansion of apprenticeships, including graduate apprenticeships, will also have an impact on further and higher education since it is intended that there will be an alignment between the training of an apprentice and progression routes to formal education.
Some Lessons Learned 62. The whole issue of definitions is still being actively debated. There is some uncertainty over the meaning of “Employer Engagement” whether narrowly in terms of employer co-funded ASNs or more widely, encompassing all forms of HE and FE employer–focused activity. There is also some confusion between the “employability” of graduates and employer engagement in relation to workforce development. 63. There are important questions about the capacity of institutions to deliver all the current agenda; delivering flexible provision in oV-site locations or through novel means of delivery may be diYcult to arrange within the current institutional structures and practices; the availability and relevant qualifications of staV, the flexibility of timetables, the responsiveness of the infrastructure are issues that come immediately to mind. 64. The commitment by institutions at the highest management level, moreover, does not necessarily guarantee commitment to deliver on the ground. Time constraints, contractual issues, the absence of a clear career progression structure for academics involved with employer engagement, the current system of incentives and rewards, and traditional views about the purpose of HE and the role of academic staV are sometimes cited as reasons for non-engagement by staV. Developing employer-engagement, therefore, requires clear institutional strategies across a range of areas from human resources to the teaching and learning processes. 65. The financial model is not clear at present. Given the constraints on standard under-graduate university tuition fees, developing “bite-sized” provision on a pro-rata basis is not necessarily a profitable activity compared with full-cost Income Generating Activities. It is possible that post-graduate provision of this kind, where there is no constraint on fees, may be more profitable. On the other hand, focussing on post-graduate provision may not achieve the stated aim of increasing the percentage of the existing workforce with higher-level skills (level four and above) to at least 40% by 2020. There is also tension between the, sometimes, non-accredited nature of what an employer wants and the co-funding driver for institutions to require accredited provision. 66. There is a further issue over the scope for “closed courses” under the present public funding arrangements for universities and colleges; indeed, some have questioned whether it is permissable, under European directives, to provide HEFCE funding for courses delivered to individual employers exclusively. On the other hand, the Train to Gain model may overcome some of these inhibitions. 67. There is a feeling that employer-engagement may be more relevant and appropriate for certain kinds of institutions than others, building on their distinctive mission. However, given that it is post-92 universities (the former polytechnics) who are most prominent in the current wave of activity, there is a possible danger that this will be seen as activity more appropriate for less prestigious universities. 68. The current multiplicity of employer engagement initiatives may lead to come confusion and even duplication; the boundaries between the activities of Foundation Degree Forward, the Employer- Engagement Pilot Projects and Regional Pathfinder projects, HEwWork, Train to Gain, Lifelong Learning Networks and Student Employability projects, not to mention the curriculum developments of some Sector Skills Councils, may become blurred and, for individual employers, a significant challenge. 69. Currently, Foundation Degrees, STEM-provision and Employer Co-funded ASNs are the only avenues for growing student numbers within a university. In these circumstances, institutions cannot be entirely blamed if they develop provision to satisfy their own internal needs rather than directly responding to the needs of employers. 70. For all these reasons, the provision of clear gateways and information, advice and guidance, is all important, both for employers and for the students themselves. Equally, clarity over the terms of engagement for collaboration between institutions, especially as they develop joint provision for employer- related courses, becomes very important for what are in eVect autonomous, competing institutions. 71. There have been some positive outcomes, in terms of exploring institutions priorities, developing a keener awareness of sustainability, forming collaborations and identifying new business prospects while the development of Employer Engagement Strategies at institutional, organizational and regional levels is enabling the mapping and integration of the plethora of initiatives. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Summary
72. This is a brief overview of the current situation and is intended to inform the Select Committee of some of the key developments which may impact on cross-border relations. 73. In particular, it appears that the absence of programmes in Wales similar to HEIF or Train to Gain limits the degree to which Welsh and English institutions can collaborate on programmes relating to business and development. While Wales has developed its own strategies for innovation, enterprise and skills, there is no obvious alignment between these and similar programmes in England and this may make joint-ventures or collaborations diYcult. 74. There is an anomaly in the T2G programmes identified in section 12 above where an individual resident in Wales may benefit by virtue of employment in England, but the reverse does not apply. The development of a similar programme in Wales would appear to be a desirable proposition. 75. In England, much attention has been paid to the absence of a HEIF-type programme for Further Education colleges, and given the degree to which FE is a key player in employer-engagement through T2G, this is something which may well be addressed in the near future. The situation in Wales may well be similar. 76. One further concern expressed by colleagues in the sector is the diYculty of developing cross-border partnerships, apart from research. Foundation Degrees, for example, are being developed diVerently between Wales and England because, for example, HEFCE funds FDs through the provision of Additional Student Numbers (ASN) placing these two-year degrees on a par with standard degrees, whereas the situation in Wales is diVerent. Given that many employers work across the boundary of Wales and England, there are interesting questions about the degree to which collaboration can eVectively be produced. Recently, for example, it has been announced that a new Foundation Degree in Retail Management is being developed with Tesco PLC, accredited and delivered by Manchester Metropolitan University and the University of the Arts London. It will be interesting to see where employees of Tesco in Wales will be located in this new arrangement. 77. Finally, the situation in England is not static either. In September 2010, the Learning and Skills Council will disappear and there is some uncertainty, at present, about the over-all strategy for which the LSC has been responsible. A new Skills Funding Agency is due to be created and Train to Gain will become part of Business Link, but keen observers are looking to see what the new, integrated strategy may look like. There is interest in England, however, in cross-border developments and the opportunities for wider collaboration in developing employer-engagement. 6 June 2008
Memorandum submitted by Professor Dylan Jones, Head of School of Psychology, CardiV University
Introduction
This response has been divided according to the diVerent functions and interests that the School of Psychology represents in the areas of Higher Education and Health. As one of only a handful of 5* rated (RAE2001) Schools within the Higher Education sector we face common challenges alongside our comparator Schools and Institutions. As part of a Russell Group University the School is acutely sensitive to disparities between the regions of the UK. As a School of Psychology, moreover, we additionally face a range of challenges in the health and social care arenas both in our capacity as a facility for groundbreaking medical and social research and as providers of professional training. A major issue of note is the diVerence between the Higher Education Funding Councils in England and Wales, both in terms of the funding for undergraduate teaching and quality research funding. As an example, Liverpool University and CardiV University have roughly the same amount of money for undergraduate teaching yet Liverpool has only 14,000 undergraduates against 20,000 at CardiV University.
1. Undergraduate Teaching
The School has an intake of approximately 200 undergraduate students each year and all of our courses are accredited by the British Psychological Society (BPS). Admissions criteria are 3 As at A-Level and the School has additional requirements for GCSE achievement. The uncertainty about top-up fee policy, and potential funding disparities in Wales relative to other UK sectors, is a major concern and this uncertainty is likely to be a deterrent to the highest quality applicants from outside Wales. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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2. Postgraduate Research The School is fortunate to get around half of our PhD students progressing from the undergraduate programmes within the School, and is duly sensitive to any eVects that changes to undergraduate population or funding may mean for the students at every level in the School. Otherwise, postgraduate research numbers are very strong in the School, with PhD students funded through a variety of studentships from the Research Councils, as well as by multiple industrial partners, including Eli Lilly, EADS, General Dynamics, GlaxoSmithKline and QinetiQ.
3. Postgraduate Teaching Our postgraduate teaching is recognised internationally as professional training and entitles graduates to become Chartered Members of the BPS and to practise as Psychologists in the UK.
3.1 Doctorate in Educational Psychology The Doctorate run by CardiV University is currently one of sixteen in the UK and the only one in Wales. As a condition of funding (provided to all students by the Welsh Local Government Association and Welsh Assesmbly Government) graduates are expected to seek employment as educational psychologists with local authorities in Wales. Those who fail to do so may be required to pay back all or some of the central funding provided for them. The programme currently runs at a shortfall to the School of some £2,000 per student per year, and top-up fees from the students will, in all probability, need to be introduced in order to provide the balance. This may well increase the disparity between programmes in England and Wales (where size of scheme is likely to oVset high course costs), and may therefore have an adverse aVect on applications in the future. There are also implications for accessibility that run counter to the eVorts of the School and University to widen access to all programmes. In addition, Wales has recently been excluded, against its wishes, from a new clearing house application system brought into force by the Local Government Employers (LGE) within England. Candidates for places on the CardiV programme now apply directly to CardiV University. As this new system has only run for one year, it is too soon to say whether this will have a detrimental impact on applications but it is not conducive to a sense of collective endeavour across the UK previously enjoyed in this sector. There is currently some cross-border collaboration in providing placements for students on this programme, but the Children’s Workforce Development Council (CWDC) has suggested a regional basis for a new workforce planning system which may increase the separation between the counties LEAs on both sides of the border. We have concerns that this will have a negative impact on recruitment and training and the consequent retention of qualified staV in this area.
3.2 Doctorate in Clinical Psychology The Doctoral programme runs as a joint venture between CardiV University and CardiV and Vale NHS Trust and is one of two programmes within Wales. There are often over 12 applications for each of the 10 places on the programme (recently reduced from 12 places) and the applicants typically have relevant practical experience as well as Masters degrees, if not PhDs. The applicants to this scheme are from across the UK and although the graduates generally choose to work within Wales, there is no element of compulsion to do so. There is strong evidence that a large number of undergraduates at CardiV University wish to continue their study on courses such as the Doctorate and given the calibre of the undergraduate students at the School, it is unfortunate that due to the limited funded places on the Doctorate scheme we cannot retain more of them. There are also wide-ranging implications for the recruitment and training of Clinical Psychologists across the UK following the Layard Report (The Depression Report: A New Deal for Depression and Anxiety Disorders) which recommends implementation of the National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) guidelines. At present we know of no plans for increased recruitment into Clinical Psychology training, or additional non-psychologist entry into cognitive behaviour therapy training, in Wales to match that likely to occur in England. This is of significant concern as a strong link has been established between areas of economic deprivation and the need for mental health services. It should be noted that the Department for Work and Pensions still operates on a UK-wide level and their research and recommendations do have a significant impact on the Health professions, which are increasingly separate for England and Wales. This may lead to a disparity in research capability and in patient care.
4. Research Although we welcome the competitions held by the Research Councils and major charities that are open to all UK-based Higher Education Institutions, Wales seems to be at a disadvantage in terms of focused Research Centres from RCUK or major charitable foundations; despite equivalent success in all other areas of competitive research funding, there are no HEI-based research centres funded by the Medical Research Council (MRC), Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council (EPSRC), Biotechnology and Biological Science Research Council (BBSRC), or The Wellcome Trust. This is clearly not due to the quality of research at Universities in Wales and seems to be a hereditary imbalance that merits scrutiny. The combined funding of health research through the MRC and the England-only National Institute for Health Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Research (NIHR) is also a cause for concern in the significant area of medical research. At present, funds that are derived from NIHR are not available to HEIs in Wales, and at present there is no equivalent or matching funding stream in the Welsh system. Not only does this mean welsh HEIs cannot collaborate on NIHR-funded projects, but there is also a significant funding gap in the medical research arena in Wales. The Reconfiguration and Collaboration Fund has been successful in promoting research in Wales, and we would welcome the extension of this Fund to include collaboration across the border in key strategic areas where critical mass could be achieved to bring material benefit (for example, the emerging CardiV and Bristol collaboration in the area of mental health and neuroscience).
5. Recommendations for Action 5.1 QR and QT funding to be comparable in Wales to that in England. 5.2 Certainty of future fee levels and structures at the undergraduate level to be sought. 5.3 Implementation of the Layard Report and the consequent provision for Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, directed particularly to areas of economic deprivation. 5.4 Doctorate in Educational Psychology to be funded at the true cost centrally. 5.5 Exploration to be undertaken into the benefit of cross-border collaboration in all areas of professional training. 5.6 Research Councils UK to be encouraged to establish Research Centres in Wales. 5.7 The Reconfiguration and Collaboration Fund to be extended to cross-border projects with HEFCW and HEFCE support. 5.8 OYce for Strategic Co-ordination of Health Research (OSCHR) to continue to work with oYcials from DH, DIUS and the devolved administrations to set the Government’s health research strategy, taking into account the advice, priorities and needs set out by NIHR and its equivalents in the devolved countries, MRC and the NHS.
Memorandum submitted by Professor E W Jones, Principal, Harper Adams University College
Summary 1. There are a number of key reasons why issues and decisions relating to the Welsh Higher Education Sector have relevance for Harper Adams University College and the cross-border nature of its engagement into Wales. These arise from: — Our location (Paragraph 5). — Our mission and its relevance to the Welsh Rural Economy (Paragraph 5). — Our subject specialization in agriculture, food and land-based studies (Paragraphs 5 and 6). — Our importance in national and regional provision of a Strategically Important and Vulnerable Subject (Paragraphs 5 and 8). — Our recruitment and training of Welsh students (Paragraph 7). — Our active engagement with Welsh businesses and communities in business development, entrepreneurship and training (Paragraph 9). 2. The student funding system in Wales has already introduced a disparity between the grant (non- repayable) assistance to Welsh students that study in Wales compared with in England, and hence its relative financial attractiveness. We would be concerned if any future changes were to exacerbate this situation further (Paragraph 8). 3. We also believe there are significant benefits for Welsh students that study at Harper Adams University College arising from the high employability of its graduates. For those students that might be diverted for financial reasons to study in Wales, these employability benefits clearly may be aVected (Paragraphs 5 and 8). 4. We believe there are opportunities to develop more co-ordinated approaches to HE and RDA/WDA- related initiative-funding streams, where cross-border activity could take place, and where currently either activity and its funding ceases at regional or national boundaries, or the multiplicity of funding agencies to be addressed in securing separate funding streams adds to cost and complexity (Paragraphs 9 and 10). 5. Harper Adams University College is a specialist Higher Education institution focusing on agriculture, land and food related studies, located some 15 miles from Shrewsbury near Newport in Shropshire, in the heart of the Welsh Marches Region. Its mission is “Higher education for the delivery of a sustainable food Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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chain and rural economy”.45 It is a major deliverer in the United Kingdom of a Strategically Important and Vulnerable subject, “land-based studies”.46 The University College has over 2,000 full time equivalent students and almost 4,000 registered learners, and is recognized nationally for the excellence and high quality of its provision.47, 48 A unique feature of provision is the sandwich degree structure at the University College, which includes one year of work experience for its undergraduates in year 3 of a four year degree course. This contributes greatly to the employability of graduates, with almost 99% of graduates employed within six months of graduation.
6. The University College has the largest number of students in the agriculture group of subjects in the UK. In the academic year 2006–07 it accounted for over 22% of all full time first degree undergraduates studying within the agriculture subject group in the UK, and 19% of all undergraduate and postgraduates. This compares with a combined total in the Welsh Universities (Aberystwyth and Bangor) of just over 8% respectively for first degree undergraduate and all students in agriculture and related subjects.49
7. The student recruitment base of Harper Adams is regional, national and international. However, the Welsh dimension to its recruitment is important, with 10% of full time new student entrants in 2006 and 2007 being drawn from Wales. Indeed the University College has a very active Harper Cymry alumni association. Centres for Welsh students to study land-based subjects locally at Higher Education level are at peripheral locations—Aberystwyth, Bangor and Harper Adams University College. Of the Welsh students at Harper Adams, almost half originate from within the Marches border counties of Wales, revealing that despite its cross-border English location, the University College has an important regional role in a geographic sense, where its hinterland is defined not in terms of administrative or political boundaries, but by communications and other socio-economic linkages.
8. However, we note that there are diVerences in the costs to students of studying in Wales relative to pursuing similar studies in England. By way of example, a Welsh student whose parental income was £25,000 per annum would receive a maintenance grant of £1,730 and a fee grant of £1,890, in total grant aid of £3,620. If the student were to study in England, only a maintenance grant of £2,835 would be receivable, a diVerence of some £785 annually, or in total over £2,300 less to repay through the student loan after three years of study. Whilst we have not yet seen a reduction in our Welsh intake, we would be concerned were there to be any greater divergence in relative costs of study to students which could undermine recruitment in a strategic subject area within a major provider.
9. The work of the University College in Knowledge Transfer and more generally in its Third Mission activities through links with business and communities and in the employer engagement agendas also have a significant cross-border reach and impact. The University College is active in continuing professional development and training. In particular, it is responsible for the assessment of all Suitably Qualified Persons (SQPs) who can dispense animal medicines under the Animals Medicines Training Regulatory Authority (AMTRA) accreditation. Almost 200 students registered in this scheme are from Wales. Furthermore, SQP training courses were delivered in situ both last year and this year at Trinity College, Carmarthen. Another important Harper Adams initiative has been in providing support for women rural entrepreneurs through the Women in Rural Enterprise (WiRE) project. There are almost 100 WiRE contacts in Wales, with two vibrant networks in Camarthenshire and Powys providing training, support and workshops. A mini conference was also held in Camarthenshire in 2007 attracting 70 delegates. Such projects and employer-led training could derive still significant greater benefit and impact from the development of co-ordinated cross- border approaches to funding, which currently sit rigidly within administrative boundaries.
10. In summary, Harper Adams University College, through its location on the eastern boundary of Wales is already substantially serving its Welsh hinterland as a major centre for land-based education of Welsh students, and delivering within Wales through a number of cross-border educational initiatives. It would welcome the opportunity to explore further with both the HE funding agencies (HEFCE and HEFCW) and with the WDA and Advantage West Midlands, any possibilities for integrated cross-border activities in higher education delivery, skills development and research within its specialist disciplines. 30 April 2008
45 We note that “the heart of our policy” at the Department of Rural AVairs is “Helping farming become more sustainable economically, socially and environmentally”. http://new.wales.gov.uk/about/departments/depc/?lang%en 46 Review of Provision for Land-based Studies. JM Consulting and SQW May 2007. http://www.hefce.ac.uk/pubs/rdreports/2007/rd09 07/ 47 Sunday Times University College of the Year 2007, one of five UK institutions shortlisted for University of the Year; ranked first for teaching quality and graduate level employment in the UK; 4th in the national Student satisfaction survey and rated “exceptionally highly” by head teachers. 48 It ranks 44th in the Sunday Times 2008 League Tables, with only one Welsh University, CardiV, ranked above it. http://www.universityfinder.co.uk/the-sunday-times-good-university-guide-2008-league-table.html 49 Source Higher Education Information Database (heidi). Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Memorandum submitted by the Letterkenny Institute of Technology
1. Higher Education in the Republic of Ireland 1.1 Higher education in Ireland is broadly characterised by a binary structure, comprising universities and institutes of technology. There are seven universities which are essentially concerned with undergraduate and postgraduate degree programmes, together with basic and applied research. There are fourteen institutes of technology (IoTs), including the Dublin Institute of Technology (DIT), which provide higher certificate, ordinary and honours degree programmes, along with a number of Masters and PhD programmes as part of their growing involvement in basic and applied research and technology transfer programmes with industry. Institute of Technology programmes tend to be applied in nature, with graduates often trained to meet specific needs of business and industry. The Institutes also tend to have a strategic mission to support business and enterprise and respond to economic changes in a regional, national and international context. 1.2 Within each sector and between the two sectors, a diversity of institutions oVers a wide variety of types and levels of courses. A number of other third level institutions provide specialist education in such fields as teacher education, art and design, medicine, business studies, rural development, theology, music and law. In addition, there are a growing number of private institutions. 1.3 There are also seven Colleges of Education located throughout the country. Two colleges, Mater Dei Institute and St. Angela’s College, oVer degree level courses leading to a qualification as teachers of specialised subjects at secondary school. The five remaining Colleges of Education provide approved degree courses which lead to qualification as a primary school teacher: The Church of Ireland College of Education, Froebel College of Education, Mary Immaculate College, St. Patrick’s College and Col†iste Mhuire, Marino. While the Colleges of Education are separate institutions to the universities, all have academic and certification linkages to a university. 1.4 The bulk of third level education is provided in the institutions described above which are supported very substantially by the State; most receive in excess of 80% of their income from the Exchequer. The publicly funded sector comprises circa 135,000 full-time students: universities—83,000 and IoTs—52,000. There are also circa 31,000 part time students: universities—16,000 and IoTs 15,000. 1.5 The sector has grown significantly since the 1980s. During the period 1980—2004 the participation rate in higher education rose from 20% in 1980 to 36% in 1998 and to 55% in 2004.
2. Letterkenny Institute of Technology 2.1 Letterkenny Institute of Technology (LYIT) is a thriving third level education institution that has been providing higher education in County Donegal since 1971. In 1998 it was designated as an Institute of Technology and currently has 2,500 full-time students enrolled on Higher Certificate, undergraduate and postgraduate degree programmes. The college oVers courses in a number of core disciplines, including business, tourism, engineering, science, nursing, computing, design and digital media. 2.2 Since 1997 Letterkenny IT has received exchequer funding in excess of ƒ70 million, allowing it to develop significantly in a number of key strategic areas. The result is that Letterkenny IT now enjoys the benefits of a modern integrated campus with the opening of a suite of graphic design studios as well as state- of-the-art facilities for nursing courses. Sport and recreational facilities are located in a new multi-purpose centre, An Da´nlann, which also houses a dedicated student centre with ancillary student support services including a Medical Centre, a Counselling Service, a Careers OYce and Chaplaincies. Meanwhile, the Institute has developed a full range of administrative services including the Information Resource Centre, Student Services, Computer Services, Human Resources, Estates, Development and Finance. 2.3 Following an application to HETAC (Higher Education and Training Awards Council) in January 2004, an Evaluation Group for Delegated Authority visited the Institute in April 2004. They issued their findings to HETAC and formal approval issued on 27 September 2004. This conferred on the Institute the right to award its own qualifications. Much preparatory work paved the way for this milestone involving the production of a Quality Assurance Handbook and the approval of the Institute’s Academic Council. The Institute went through a similar approval process for taught master’s programmes including a peer review in June 2007, formal confirmation was subsequently granted by HETAC. 2.4 The Institute’s new Strategic Plan 2007–13 ushered in a new era for the Institute as it aligned its profile with the Gateway status accorded to Letterkenny in the National Development Plan (NDP) 2006 and its successor the NDP 2007–13. The Institutes of Technology Act 2006 saw two important developments— regionally with the incorporation of the Tourism College Killybegs (TCK) as a fully fledged School of Letterkenny IT and nationally with the Institute of Technology sector coming under the aegis of the Higher Education Authority (HEA) which has now become the funding agency for all universities and Institutes of Technology in the Republic of Ireland. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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2.5 The Institute’s on-campus Business Development Centre caters for a range of incubation businesses and has resulted in a number of very successful spin-out organisations in the recent past. An extension to the centre is under construction, as is the development of dedicated research space funded by the Department of Education and Science. 2.6 Letterkenny IT continues to evolve its course oVerings to meet the needs of the region and it will continue to play an important role in the transition of the local economy from textiles manufacturing and fishing to a knowledge economy that is now emerging. With over 50% of the Institute’s graduates finding employment in the North West on an annual basis, this is contributing to a pool of graduate employment in the region which should prove attractive to prospective employers. 2.7 Letterkenny IT takes seriously its remit of importing best practice into the region and, in collaboration with other stakeholders, supports the development and upskilling of indigenous industry. It sees its involvement in cross-border programmes as an important regional initiative in the context of ongoing cooperation with the University of Ulster and the North West Regional College in Derry.
3. North West Gateway Strategic Alliance (NWGSA) 3.1 Letterkenny Institute of Technology (LYIT) has been awarded funding by the Irish Higher Education Authority (HEA) administered Strategic Innovation Fund (cycle 2) in relation to a strategic alliance with the University of Ulster (UU) aimed at increasing higher education capacity in the North West and border region. This proposal has two distinct elements: a scoping study and a complete specification or blueprint for the strategic alliance. The focus of the scoping study is: to build a fuller picture of the opportunities for collaboration, views of stakeholders, the needs of the North West Gateway region, the respective operating environments of the partner institutions and possible models for achieving the aims of the proposal. 3.2 Indecon International Consultants and London Economics have been engaged to complete this piece of work. Significant progress has been made to date and a final report is due by December 2008. Following the completion of the scoping study the remainder of the project will detail a blueprint for collaboration between LYIT and UU. 3.3 This project is an example of positive cross-border collaboration, where the higher education institutions are taking the lead in how a strategic approach to planning can benefit the communities that live in the region. October 2008
Memorandum submitted by the Lifelong Learning Network for Herefordshire & Worcestershire
No of Welsh Students Name of Institution Studying FE or HE
Evesham & Malvern Hills College 0 Hereford College of Arts 7 Hereford Sixth Form College 87 Herefordshire College of Technology 460 Kidderminster College 4 North East Worcestershire College 2 Royal National College for the Blind 23 Worcester College of Technology 23 Worcester Sixth Form College 0 University of Worcester 139 Total 745
Memorandum submitted by the National Institute of Adult Continuing Education (NIACE) Dysgu Cymru
About NIACE
(i) The National Institute of Adult Continuing Education (NIACE) is the national, independent organisation for adult learning in England and Wales. As a registered charity, founded in 1921, NIACE both represents and advances the interests of all adult learners and potential learners—especially those who have benefited least from education and training. NIACE aims to improve opportunities for adult learners across all sectors with a particular focus on those adults who have not had successful access to learning in their initial education. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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(ii) NIACE Dysgu Cymru (NDC) the Welsh arm of NIACE, conducts work in Wales supported by a Management Group, which is elected by NIACE members in Wales. The membership of NDC comprises almost all further education colleges, all Local Authorities, most higher education institutions, individuals, Careers Wales, TUC, UfI and other representatives of a range of organisations whose focus is specifically on responding to the needs of adult learners.
Context
1. Policy context in Wales Since devolution in 1999 the divergence in educational policy and distinctiveness of Wales’ educational institutions, structures and working arrangements has become more marked. The Welsh Assembly Government’s strategies for education, and latterly education and employment (The Learning Country: Vision into Action (2006) and Skills that Work for Wales (2008)) continue to diVer from their equivalents in England in particular. Whilst the latter reflects broad similarities (with England) in terms of direction of travel, there remains a greater emphasis on widening participation and social justice. Significantly, the Welsh Assembly Government also diVers from Westminster departments in terms of its emphasis on partnership and collaboration, not competition/ contestability (as a means to achieving these aims). More broadly, the structures within which education and training are delivered in Wales diVer from those in England. The call for a “bonfire of the quangos” pre-dated democratic devolution, but was subsequently embraced by the Welsh Assembly Government. The eVect on quality of delivery of policy in England and Wales is diYcult to assess, though it certainly presents a complex set of arrangements for learners living on the border. The (government) departmental arrangements in England and Wales now diVer significantly. Wales’ Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning & Skills plans and delivers education and training for all ages (excluding higher education), while in England responsibility is split between two departments, Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills and the Department for Children, Schools and Families, and delivered by a variety of quangos.
2. Further Education There are a number of specific points in relation to further education, which NDC believes merit consideration by the Committee: — The level of funding, per head of population, is greater in England than in Wales, particularly in relation to capital funding. If this gap is not closed, it could put institutions near the border at considerable risk of losing learners to nearby English institutions. — FE Lecturers have secured pay parity with school teachers in Wales. NDC welcomes this as a positive step towards achieving parity of esteem between the FE and schools sector. However, there is a concern that pay parity has been achieved at the expense of investment in, for example, facilities, equipment and training in Wales. — There appears to be no political appetite for private finance initiative in Wales (One Wales explicitly rules this out for the Health service), which could potentially impact on levels of capital investment in comparison with England. — Funding for 16–19 provision remains within Welsh Assembly Government (there appears to be no appetite in Wales to shift this to LEAs). — Many colleges (particularly those on border or of specialist nature-including residential provision) recruit students from England. — FE Colleges in England have the power to validate their own foundation degrees. As this is currently not the case in Wales, it could lead to English border colleges targeting recruitment at Welsh learners.
3. Adult and Community Learning There are a number of specific points in relation to Adult and Community Learning (ACL) which NDC believes merit consideration by the Committee: — The ACL sector in Wales is characterised by a diverse range of provision delivered by a wide range of providers, including many outside the mainstream institutions of formal post-school education. These include museums, libraries and various voluntary and community-based organisations. NDC believes that there should be a greater understanding of the contribution that ACL makes to a broad range of Government agendas. These often fall outside of the government departments Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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with direct responsibility for ACL (described above). NIACE’s work on typologies, set out at Annex A, may be of assistance in this respect. In summary, NIACE has identified the following diVerent strands of ACL: — First Steps work; — Skills for Life, (including embedded basic skills); — Skills for Independent Living; — Skills for Work; — Learning for interest, personal fulfillment and for well-being and health; and — Learning for active citizenship and/or community development. — In particular, ACL plays a crucial role in widening participation and contributing to greater equality of opportunity, by taking provision to learners rather than expecting disadvantaged learners to come to the provision. It is also important to recognise the role of informal, non-formal and non-accredited learning which form key parts of ACL provision; developing key skills and building confidence to participate in wider society, as well as often being the first steps to additional learning, qualifications and skills. — Over the last decade or so, much post-19 provision for learners has been underpinned by European funding particularly in the areas of widening participation and reducing economic inactivity. Although the importance of ACL to economic growth is recognised by the European Commission,50 there is significant concern across the sector that ACL related projects will be squeezed out of the ESF Convergence Programme. This is despite compelling evidence on the wider benefits of all types of learning (see www.learningbenefits.net). Furthermore, there is concern that too narrow an understanding of the learning needs of the most excluded and marginalized in society will lead to a devaluation of ACL despite its catalytic role in stimulating demand for all kinds of learning amongst such groups. — NDC is keen that the broad variety of post-16 education provision is maintained for learners in England and Wales to ensure equality of opportunity and that participation continues to be widened. — Whilst appreciating the context of limited funding, NDC believes that it is unfortunate that ACL provision in particular is often the “first to be cut”. In England over the last two years 1.4 million learners have been lost. This may also put additional pressure on ACL providers in the Welsh border regions, as learners travel to access provision which has been cut in England.
4. Higher Education NDC believes that there are a number of specific points in relation to Higher Education which merit consideration by the Committee: — Higher Education is intrinsically cross-border in nature. Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) are also international organisations, recruiting staV, and accessing research income from a global marketplace. — Cross-border working is pivotal to the future success of Welsh HEIs. — The UK Higher Education system operates on a “dual support” model. Firstly, investment in teaching and research is channelled through DIUS in England, the Welsh Assembly Government and the Scottish Executive. Three national funding councils (HEFCE, HEFCW, SFC) operate on an “arms length” from their Governments, and allocate grant funding to their universities. The devolved institutions receive funding as a result of a Barnett formula “consequentials” related to the level of DIUS HE spending in England, but are then free to decide what level of investment to channel to HE through their respective funding councils. It is considered that levels of funding per student in Wales are lower than in England. Secondly, DIUS invests in universities and national research institutes (including all the research councils). This funding is not allocated according to any formula, but is based on rigorous grant application processes. — Given the “dual support” model described above, it is essential that Whitehall departments involve the devolved administrations in any discussions about possible changes to policy in relation to HE funding. — Following the Rees & Graham Reviews into student finance in Wales, diVerent systems of fees and support arrangements have developed in England and Wales. The has been a reduction in applications from England domiciled students to study in Welsh HEIs, although it is not clear whether this is due to the diVering fee arrangements or other issues. NDC understands that HEFCW are currently undertaking research into this issue. However, NDC believes that a reduction in student mobility is undesirable.
50 Communication from the Commission of the European Communities, Adult Learning: It’s Never Too Late to Learn (COM (2006) 614)). Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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NDC would also draw the Committee’s attention to the Furlong Review of Initial Teacher Training, undertaken on behalf of the Welsh Assembly Government in 2005. Furlong made a number of comments in relation to cross-border services. In particular: — Data analysis: Data is collected by UK Government (in the case of initial teacher training) to model teacher supply. Despite the fact that the model covers both England and Wales, it does not include any Wales specific data in the calculations. This was not necessarily a problem pre- devolution, when oversupply (eg of newly qualified teachers) in one part of the country contributed to addressing undersupply in another. However, now that devolved administrations are responsible for the funding, they need ensure a closer match between demand and supply in each country. — This issue raises the question; to what extent should HEIs in Wales use better workforce planning in an attempt to achieve a match between demand and supply, or can the system be better configured to continue to support a UK wide HE system?
5. Media NDC believes that there are a number of points in relation to the media which the Committee might wish to take into consideration: — A number of issues, highlighted most recently by Professor Tony King in his review of network news, impact on the delivery of services in England and Wales. For example, in relation to education and training, advertising funded by the UK Government often relates only to England initiatives (for example Education Maintenance Allowance, “golden handshakes” for teachers etc). — In addition to this, UK wide services, such as those provided by learndirect, can provide inaccurate or misleading information about services in Wales.
6. Conclusions There appears to be little evidence of cross-border co-ordination. However, it is also unclear how desirable or possible such co-ordination would be in the context of diverging policy. Informal reciprocal agreements are in place on the cross-border recruitment of FE learners. Additional bureaucracy would not be welcomed by providers or learners. Marketing (eg of the Train to Gain programme) and indeterminate distribution of English policy documents can lead to confusion for providers in Wales. Of greater significance, however, is the apparent lower levels of funding for providers (particularly FE and HE institutions) in Wales compared to England.
Annex A
ADULT LEARNING DESCRIPTORS (NIACE, MAY 2004)
Title Definition First Steps Learning which is oVered as an initial entry point into learning and from which learners are actively encouraged and supported to progress to other forms of learning. Skills for Life, including Learning for which, whatever the title of the course, the primary Embedded Basic Skills intention is to enhance the basic skills of literacy, numeracy and/or English language for speakers of other languages. Skills for Independent Living Learning which develops the knowledge, skills and understanding of adults with learning diYculties and disabilities for independent living in the community. Skills for Work Learning which enables people to develop the skills they need for paid or voluntary work and which will enhance their employability. Learning for Interest and Learning for personal development, cultural engagement, Personal Well Being and Health intellectual or creative stimulation and for enjoyment, and for which there is no expectation that learners should necessarily progress to other learning. Learning for Active Citizenship Community based learning developed with local residents and other and/or Community learners to build the skills, knowledge and understanding for social Development and community action.
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Memorandum submitted by Professor Teresa Rees, Pro Vice Chancellor (Research), CardiV University
Introduction
I am very pleased that the important issue of cross border services is being addressed by the Welsh AVairs Committee as I believe it is an issue that has been neglected since devolution, particularly so in the case of policies regarding higher education. The matter is more crucial now given that some responsibilities, but not all, have now been devolved to the Welsh Assembly Government. As well as being an academic at a Welsh higher education institution responsible for strategic leadership in research, my background is as follows. I chaired two independent reviews for the former Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning at the Assembly, Ms Jane Davidson, on higher education funding and student support in 2001,51 200652). They made a series of recommendations on these issues, the vast majority of which have been implemented. As a social scientist, I am a member of a 23 strong team of European researchers funded by the European Commission to conduct research on knowledge economies at the regional level. Finally, I have been a researcher concerned with contributing to evidence based policy in Wales, the UK and the European Union throughout my academic life. I am a Fellow of the National School of Government’s Sunningdale Institute set up at the instigation of Sir Gus O’Donnell to bring together “thinkers” and senior civil servants. Clearly it is still early days in the devolutionary journey. However, there is some clear evidence in higher education that some important issues both for Wales and the UK are slipping between stools, however inadvertently, with highly adverse consequences for Wales. I should like to focus on the key issues of student fees and support, higher education funding, and research funding.
Student Fees and Support
I believe it was mistaken to cast student contributions to their education as “fees”. However, during the “Rees Reviews” students explained to us that their education was important to them and they did not want to “shop around” for bargains but to take informed decision based on quality and suitability of course and institution. The “market” between the countries of the UK which have diVerent fee structures means that “choice” is now increasingly confusing for students, and there is a view that the home country oVers the best deal (whether or not this is true). This restricts choice for poorer students. It is therefore vital that any decisions made about lifting the fee cap in England should take into account the eVects on other countries. Consultation is crucial.
Higher Education Funding
The “dual funding system” which supports UK universities is a well respected system. However, since devolution, its eYcacy has been aVected by the fact that some decisions about spend on higher education, for example on pay and pensions, are made at a UK level while universities’ capacity to meet the bills depends upon the approach taken to investing in higher education in the respective countries. Hence, there is now a funding gap in higher education between England and Wales (also known as the “investment gap”) of an estimated £62 million a year, a figure that is scheduled to continue rising each year. We are already seeing the consequences of this gap in deteriorating spend per student in Welsh institutions (reflected in the recent Independent league tables). Infrastructure repair and new investment are first casualties. DiYculties in recruiting and retaining good staV are likely to follow. Universities in Wales are unlikely to be able to compete eVectively. In England, the resource follows “excellence”. In Wales, following the last Research Assessment Exercise, the decision was made that resource earned through selectivity should be spread more thinly. This makes it particularly diYcult for research intensive universities to contribute to a knowledge economy. The funding gap will widen further given the decision by the Welsh Assembly Government not to follow the Westminster Government’s decision to match donations made to English Universities.
51 Rees, T, Humphreys, R, Jenkins, D, Pearle, T, Reynolds, S, Richards, K, Singh, R, Whiting, M, and Woodhall, M (2001) Investing in Learners: Coherence, clarity and equity for student support in Wales. A report to the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning at the National Assembly for Wales, CardiV: Independent Investigation Group on Student Hardship and Funding in Wales, pp 52 (Chair). 52 Rees, T, Bell, D, Bruce, T, Davies, D, Humphreys, R, Jenson, G, McGinley, D, Reynolds, S, Richards, K, Singh, R, Smith, E, Williams, F, Woodall, M, and Wynne-Jones, E (2005) Fair and Flexible Funding: A Welsh Model to Promote Quality and Access in Higher Education Final Report of An Independent Study into the Devolution of the Student Support System and Tuition Fee Regime in Wales (The Rees Review) Main Report, CardiV: Welsh Assembly Government ISBN 0 7504 3657 3 pp pp 113 plus CD-ROM of appendices http://www.learning.wales.gov.uk/students/rees-review-e.shtml Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Research Funding
A decision made in Westminster to resource the gap between charities’ and Government Departments’ funding of research so that they provided Full Economic Costing (80%) for commissioned research was not matched in Wales. Equally moves to ensure that R&D monies in the NHS were used for research have worked in Northern Ireland (where it is ring fenced) but not in Wales where it is suspected it is used for clinical work. Anecdotal evidence from members of Research Assessment Exercise panels suggests that many returns strongly feature reference to investment made in universities in England and Scotland from central government and regional development agencies that has not been matched in Wales.
Post Devolution Joined Up Government
I should like to argue that closer attention should be paid to higher education policies, student support and research funding in particular at a UK level. Technology transfer, science policy, negotiating with international research funding bodies (such as the European Commission), and recruiting international students are all areas where there is a role to play both in the separate countries but also at the UK level. The next stage of devolution should ensure that there is more consultation across borders and more decision- making informed by the new landscape. Otherwise the unforeseen consequences, especially those on Wales, will be highly detrimental. July 2008
Supplementary evidence from Professor Teresa Rees CBE, Pro Vice Chancellor, CardiV University
Barnett Consequentials and Devolution
There are a number of instances where decisions have been made in Westminster that apply to England where as far as I can tell, an appropriate resource has not been made available on the Barnett formula to Wales. This has had an adverse eVect on research in Wales. For example: — when the Government in Westminster decided to address to the issue of Full Economic Costing in Government department and charity funded research in English universities. This was not matched in Wales and remains problematic especially for health charity funded research; — when the funds raised in English universities from alumni were matched by Government resources (following the Thomas report), but the same did not apply in Wales; and — when R&D money in the NHS was earmarked for research but in Wales it remains in Trusts and is diYcult to access.
On WAG’s Review of HE
The first part of this review, on fees, has reported and I am in broad agreement with the recommendations. Indeed, they fall in line with those of the Rees Review.53 For the main report (which, ideally, would have been conducted in advance of the more specific one on fees), I hope that the focus will look at Wales in its wider context and argue for more joined up thinking on higher education in the UK. This would include commenting on the role of Westminster on aspects of HE in Wales such as the recruitment of international students, innovation and engagement, links with industry, the research agenda of the European Commission’s Framework Programme and profiling research of the UK. It would also examine the need for a strategic framework on higher education and research at the UK level at Ministerial and senior civil servant levels. Secondly, I trust the review will pay attention, as I am sure it will, to the issue of cross border flows—of students, staV and research funding, drawing in part on the work of the Select Committee.
53 Rees, T, Bell, D, Bruce, T, Davies, D, Humphreys, R, Jenson, G, McGinley, D, Reynolds, S, Richards, K, Singh, R, Smith, E, Williams, F, Woodall, M, and Wynne-Jones, E. (2005) Fair and Flexible Funding: A Welsh Model to Promote Quality and Access in Higher Education Final Report of An Independent Study into the Devolution of the Student Support System and Tuition Fee Regime in Wales (The Rees Review) Main Report, CardiV: Welsh Assembly Government ISBN 0 7504 3657 3 pp 113 plus CD-ROM of appendices http://www.learning.wales.gov.uk/students/rees-review-e.shtml Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Memorandum submitted by Research Councils UK (RCUK)
Executive Summary — The seven UK Research Councils are the largest public funders of research in the UK, investing over £3 billion per annum in research, training and knowledge transfer across a broad spectrum of research areas. The Councils have a UK-wide remit. — The central criterion for funding of research is academic excellence which is identified by the Councils through thorough and detailed peer review. In 2006–07 around 3% of total Research Council research grant funding to Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) was awarded to HEIs in Wales. — The Research Councils also fund training of postgraduate students. These funds are also awarded on the basis of excellence. In 2006–07 around 5% of the postgraduate students studying in the UK were enrolled at HEIs in Wales.
Introduction 1.The seven UK Research Councils are the largest public funders of research in the UK, investing over £3 billion per annum in research, training and knowledge transfer across a broad spectrum of research areas. The seven Research Councils are: — Arts and Humanities Research Council (AHRC) — Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council (BBSRC) — Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) — Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council (EPSRC) — Medical Research Council (MRC) — Natural Environment Research Council (NERC) — Science and Technologies Facilities Council (STFC) 2. Each Council is an independent Non-Departmental Public Body established by Royal Charter and sponsored by the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills (DIUS). The Councils are funded by DIUS with an allocation from the Science Budget. Details of the funding provided for the present Spending Review period (2008–11) are available in the Science Budget Allocations published by DIUS.54 3. The Research Councils fund research in Higher Education Institutions (HEIs), their own Research Institutes and some Independent Research Organisations. The Councils have a UK-wide remit. 4. Research Councils UK (RCUK)55 is the strategic partnership of the seven Research Councils. Through RCUK the Councils work together to deliver their shared missions and objectives. The memorandum is submitted by RCUK on behalf of the seven Councils.
Excellent Research 5. The Councils, broadly speaking, employ two approaches to distributing funds for research. The first is driven by ideas for fruitful research topics generated by the research community and is known as response mode. In the second approach, Councils, in consultation with their research communities and other stakeholders, identify strategically important areas of study and commission research within these areas. This is known as directed or programme mode, and in some cases this involves multidisciplinary research that crosses the boundaries between the Councils. In both cases the central criterion for funding of research is academic excellence which is identified through thorough and detailed peer review. 6. As a result of this fundamental commitment to fund excellent research wherever it is being carried out within the UK, the Councils do not allocate funding on a regional basis. This means that the distribution of Research Council funding between England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales varies from year to year depending on the quality of research proposals received. The distribution of funds for research by the seven Research Councils during financial year 2006–07 is provided in Table 1. This shows that around 3% of funding to HEIs by the Research Councils was directed to Welsh HEIs, although there is considerable variation between Councils, with a range of 2–8%. For comparison, the proportion of UK academic staV employed by Welsh HEIs was around 5% in 2004–05 (the last year where data is currently publicly available).56
54 http://www.dius.gov.uk/publications/URN07114.pdf 55 See http://www.rcuk.ac.uk/ for further details. 56 Source: Data published on websites of Higher Education Funding Council for England (http://www.hefce.ac.uk/; total number of academic staV at HEIs in the UK) and Higher Education Funding Council for Wales (http://www.hefcw.ac.uk/; total number of academic staV at HEIs in Wales). Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
Ev 174 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence
7. Research Council support for research includes the provision of facilities accessible to researchers UK- wide. A large part of STFC’s remit is to provide such facilities, and NERC also funds a range of services and facilities57 which researchers eligible to apply for NERC research funding can apply to use, irrespective of their location in the UK.
Supporting the Next Generation of Researchers 8. The Research Councils also provide funding for postgraduate research students, provided as either grants to individuals or block grants to HEIs. Students are selected on the basis of excellence, normally by HEIs themselves. Data on the location of postgraduate students within the UK are available from the Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA)—in summary, in 2006–07 around 5% of the postgraduate students studying in the UK were enrolled at HEIs in Wales.58 9. In 2006 the RCUK-supported UK GRAD programme59 published “What do PhDs do? A regional analysis of first destinations for all UK-domiciled PhD graduates”.60 This document is an excellent source of information concerning postgraduate study in Wales (see pages 87–93) including the split between disciplines and career destinations. 10. A policy secondment scheme for postgraduate students has enabled two students funded by NERC to spend three months working in the Members’ Research Service of the National Assembly of Wales during the 2007–08 academic year, and further such secondments are planned for 2008–09.
Research Council Institutes 11. In addition to funding research at HEIs, three Research Councils (BBSRC, MRC and NERC) also support their own research institutes. NERC operates at two sites in Wales (Bangor and CardiV). Prior to 1 April 2008 BBSRC operated the Institute for Grassland and Environmental Research based at Aberystwyth—this operation has recently transferred to the University of Wales, Aberystwyth.
Centre for Ecology and Hydrology, Bangor 12. The Centre for Ecology and Hydrology (CEH) at Bangor is one of four61 research facilities operated by CEH across the UK to deliver research in land and freshwater environments. The Bangor facility, which in 2008 has a staV complement of 30, contributes to the overall science aims of CEH as laid out in its science strategy and delivers this in partnership with a range of Welsh, UK and international research organisations and funders. It responds to specific research needs of Wales through directly commissioned projects and by contributing to the Welsh environmental research and policy community through a range of joint initiatives. 13. NERC contributed £3.6 million in capital investment for the Environment Centre Wales (ECW) opened in Bangor on 15 February 2008 by the Prime Minister. The new £7 million centre of excellence for environmental science co-locates the scientific expertise of CEH and Bangor University in a partnership to deliver new research working across traditional science boundaries. ECW also houses the newly established “Wales Environment Research Hub”. 14. Further details of activities carried out by the CEH Bangor are provided in Annex A.
British Geological Survey, CardiV 15. Work undertaken at the British Geological Survey (BGS) CardiV OYce includes a portfolio of SB, contract research (CR) and co-funded projects designed specifically to: — investigate the geological evolution of Wales; — maintain and improve the BGS knowledge base regarding the geology of Wales; and — provide expertise and gather data which allow BGS to meet the needs of Welsh stakeholders including central and local government in Wales, Environment Agency (EA) Wales and Countryside Council for Wales (CCW), as well as national UK government departments and NGOs. 16. The oYce runs a Welsh enquiry service which deals with requests for geoscience information and advice from both public and private sector bodies, as well as members of the public. An additional function of the oYce is to promote the relevance of earth science research and information in the context of the Welsh
57 http://www.nerc.ac.uk/research/sites/facilities/ 58 Source: Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA). 59 See http://www.grad.ac.uk/ for further details. 60 Available from http://www.grad.ac.uk/downloads/documents/WDPD/What%20do%20PhDs%20do%20a%20regional%20analysis.pdf 61 Four under the new CEH structure, once current reorganisation has been completed. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Assembly Government’s strategy and policy for sustainable land use planning and development in Wales, and as a part of the wider BGS/NERC eVort to raise awareness of national and global environmental issues with the general public. 17. Currently five earth scientists, led by the Chief Geologist Wales, are based at the BGS CardiV site; a further five members of the core Wales team are stationed at other BGS sites. In addition to its Wales enquiry service, the oYce is a point of sale for BGS products; it also serves as the principal route in Wales by which stakeholders can access the broader spectrum of BGS services and expertise based at other UK sites. 18. Further details of activities carried out by the BGS CardiV oYce are provided in Annex B.
Institute for Grassland and Environmental Research, Aberystwyth 19. Until April 2008, Institute of Grassland and Environmental Research (IGER) was a BBSRC sponsored institute, employing 280 scientific and technical staV with an annual income of £17 million. Its research programme included work on genetics and the environment that focuses on grassland land-use systems that lead to a sustainable rural economy; a healthy environment; and a safe and high-quality food chain. IGER has been actively transferring the benefits of its expertise to industry, including new opportunities in the energy, pharmaceuticals and environmental monitoring sectors. 20. On 1 April 2008, the Welsh-based sites of IGER merged with Institute of Biological, Environmental and Rural Sciences at Aberystwyth University to become the Institute of Biological, Environmental and Rural Sciences (IBERS). The merger will be accompanied by new investment in facilities and people to create an enlarged multidisciplinary centre of excellence for research and education in sustainable land-use, and a new driving force supporting biological sciences, agriculture and the environment. The merger, which is supported by BBSRC, the Institute’s Governing Body and the Councils of Aberystwyth and Bangor Universities, will build on expertise in innovation, enterprise and teaching, presenting an outstanding opportunity to consolidate and enhance the scientific contribution of Aberystwyth worldwide. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
Ev 176 Welsh Affairs Committee: Evidence oratories Total 3 EPSRC MRC NERC STFC Table 1 2 in 2006–07, £000s (% of UK total) 1 RESEARCH FUNDING TO HEIs IN UK TERRITORIES IN 2006–07 AHRC BBSRC ESRC Research grant funding to HEIs : Research Council Annual Reports for 2006–07 of the Research Councils (CCLRC) and the figures in this table are the sum of those for PPARC and CCLRC for 2006–07. Notes: 1. This table does2. not include Figures the for funding ESRC3. provided include to funding STFC Public for was Sector research formed Research and in Establishments training. April (including 2007 the following Research the Councils merger own of Institutes). the Particle Physics and Astronomy Research Council (PPARC) and the Council for the Central Lab EnglandN IrelandScotlandWalesSource 48,383 2,238 (80) 6,911 250,307 (4) (11) (84) 2,761 42,383 118,938 (5) 328 (14) (85) (0.1) 5,396 679,883 11,229 (82) (2) 932 (8) 174,520 (1) 114,803 8,517 (83) (14) 15,456 (6) 61,124 30,410 (2) (83) 18,455 (14) (2) 92,110 1,710 9,821 (81) (1) 1,627,189 2,726 (13) (83) (4) 12,738 181 (11) (0.2) 2,726 263,767 (4) (13) 259 (0.2) 9,128 19,194 (8) (1) 54,308 (3) Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Annex A
FURTHER INFORMATION ON THE CENTRE FOR ECOLOGY AND HYDROLOGY, BANGOR
Funding
CEH does not allocate science funding on a regional basis but according to its three science programmes which deliver its science aims. However, direct allocation on a regional basis is used to support the non- science costs of running each facility. A rough calculation puts the total funding by CEH/NERC at Bangor at approximately £0.6 million of the £1.8 million annual turnover. The remaining £1.2 million income is won from a range of stakeholders such as Defra, the EU and the National Assembly for Wales. This allocation has been roughly stable over the past five years.
The “Wales Environment Research Hub”
The “Wales Environment Research Hub” coordinates environmental research and evidence gathering in Wales to inform Welsh Assembly Government policies and actions.62 It is funded by a consortium of environment research users and providers in Wales including CEH which provides approximately 10% of the annual running costs at £15k per annum.
Support for Postgraduate Training
CEH Bangor supports NERC’s remit for training through co-supervision of 10 PhD students each year and contributes to Masters level teaching within Bangor University.
Annex B
FURTHER INFORMATION ON THE BRITISH GEOLOGICAL SURVEY OFFICE IN CARDIFF
Science Budget Funding 2008–09
BGS operates through science programmes and does not directly allocate Science Budget (SB) to Wales except to support specific Geology and Landscape activities that relate wholly to Wales. In 2008–09 these have been allocated £469k.
Welsh Assembly Government Funding
Between 2001 and 2006 BGS received an annual £40k grant from the Welsh Assembly Government (WAG) to support the BGS mapping programme in mid Wales (£200k in total). Other major WAG-funded contract research projects undertaken over the past five years include the production of a Coal Resources Map for Wales (£80k); grants from the Assembly-administered Aggregate Levy Sustainability Fund supporting BGS involvement in a study of the impact of sand and gravel dredging on marine habitats in the Bristol Channel (£448.5k) in partnership with the National Museum of Wales and Bangor University; as well as the Fforest Fawr Geopark initiative (£101k over two years), and the recently approved audit of Regionally Important Geological Sites (RIGS) in south-east Wales (£297k over three years).
Welsh HEI Links
In the past five years BGS has oVered support funding for two CASE studentships based at the Centre for Glaciology at Aberystwyth University. BGS, together with WAG, EA Wales and CCW, co-funded the project “Modelling and predicting future flood risk in Welsh river catchments” undertaken in collaboration with the River Catchments and Processes Research Group also based at Aberystwyth. The results of this research informed the published WAG policy on “Development and flood risk” which utilises BGS data in the guidance it provides.
62 http://www.ceh.ac.uk/news/news archive/2008 news item 04.html Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Outreach Outreach activities are an important component of the CardiV-based work and supporting and promoting geodiversity initiatives in Wales forms a key aspect. BGS is one of the core partners, with Brecon Beacons National Park and CardiV University overseeing the development of the Fforest Fawr Geopark. CardiV based staV participate on this geopark’s Management Group and Partnership Board and are also aiding the CCW and county council with their geopark initiative for Anglesey.
Supplementary memorandum submitted by Research Councils UK (RCUK)
Executive Summary — The seven UK Research Councils are the largest public funders of research in the UK, investing over £3 billion per annum in research, training and knowledge transfer across a broad spectrum of research areas. The Councils have a UK-wide remit. — Two Research Councils have institutes in Wales: BBSRC supports IBERS (Institute of Biological, Environmental and Rural Sciences, which is part of Aberystwyth University and was formerly the Institute of Grassland and Environmental Research), and NERC supports the British Geological Survey (BGS) at CardiV and the Centre for Ecology and Hydrology (CEH) at Bangor. The spend for BBSRC and NERC on these institutes over FY2006–07, as a proportion of their total UK spend on institutes over the same period, was 5.8% and 2.0% respectively. — There are no significant diVerences in the ways Research Councils interact with the Welsh Assembly Government and the Scottish Government, or their respective bodies.
Introduction 1. Research Councils UK is a strategic partnership set up to champion the research supported by the seven UK Research Councils. RCUK was established in 2002 to enable the Councils to work together more eVectively to enhance the overall impact and eVectiveness of their research, training and innovation activities, contributing to the delivery of the Government’s objectives for science and innovation. Further details are available at www.rcuk.ac.uk 2. This evidence is submitted by RCUK on behalf of all Research Councils and represents their independent views. It does not include or necessarily reflect the views of the Science and Innovation Group in the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills. The submission is made on behalf of the following Councils: Arts and Humanities Research Council (AHRC) Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council (BBSRC) Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council (EPSRC) Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) Medical Research Council (MRC) Natural Environment Research Council (NERC) Science and Technology Facilities Council (STFC) 3. The Committee requested a supplementary memorandum following the oral evidence session with Ian Diamond, to answer two specific queries from the Rt Hon Alun Michael and Dr Hywel Francis. 4. Q887 Alun Michael (requested information on) “the proportion of the Research Councils UK’s funding for their own research institutes that is allocated to research establishments in Wales”. Table 1 provides figures in response to this query. 5. Two Research Councils have institutes in Wales: BBSRC supports IBERS (Institute of Biological, Environmental and Rural Sciences, which is part of Aberystwyth University and was formerly the Institute of Grassland and Environmental Research), and NERC supports the British Geological Survey (BGS) at CardiV and the Centre for Ecology and Hydrology (CEH) at Bangor. The table shows that the spend for BBSRC and NERC on these institutes over FY2006–07, as a proportion of their total UK spend on institutes over the same period-was 5.8% and 2.0% respectively. 6. Q905 Chairman (requested) “a route map or an explanation of the qualitative diVerence between the way in which Scotland responds to you and Wales responds to you? How does actually the Scottish Executive and the HEFCW equivalent in Scotland relate to you and its respective bodies: and how do the Welsh bodies relate? Is there a significant diVerence?” 7. Table 2 maps the ways in which the Research Councils interact with the Welsh Assembly Government and the Scottish Government, and Table 3 maps the ways in which the Research Councils interact with the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales and the Scottish Funding Council. The tables show that there are no significant diVerences in the ways Research Councils interact with the Welsh Assembly Government and the Scottish Government, or their respective bodies. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Table 1
SPEND ON RESEARCH COUNCIL INSTITUTES IN WALES AND THE UK OVER FY2006–07
% Spend on institutes in Spend (£M) over Total spend on institutes Total spend on institutes Wales as a proportion of FY2006–07 in Wales in the UK institute spend in the UK BBSRC1 7.70 132.20 5.8 MRC2 No institutes in Wales 209.95 N/A NERC3 3.89 198.84 2.0 STFC4 No institutes in Wales 279.52 N/A 1 Figures include Core Strategic Grant, other BBSRC funding and BBSRC Capital funding. Source: BBSRC Annual Report 2006–07. The total income of £17M to IGER quoted in the original submission refers to all income (excluding BBSRC Capital), not just BBSRC funding. IGER (as it was in 2006–07) is the Institute of Grassland and Environmental Research—now IBERS (Institute of Biological, Environmental and Rural Sciences, part of Aberystwyth University). 2 Figure covers 3 MRC Institutes and 27 UK-based Units. 3 UK figure includes 4 wholly-owned institutes and 15 part-funded collaborative centres. 4 STFC was formed in April 2007 following the merger of the Particle Physics and Astronomy Research Council (PPARC) and the Council for the Central Laboratories of the Research Councils (CCLRC) and the figure in this table is the sum of those for PPARC and CCLRC for 2006–07. The figure includes £267.025M for the Rutherford and Daresbury Laboratories which could equally be classified as facilities.
Table 2
RESEARCH COUNCIL INTERACTION WITH THE WELSH ASSEMBLY GOVERNMENT AND THE SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT
Welsh Assembly Government (WAG) Scottish Government AHRC No high level interactions. No high level interactions. BBSRC BBSRC has a Memorandum of BBSRC has a Concordat with the Understanding with WAG, and in line Scottish Government, under which with this holds annual meetings of senior meetings at senior level have been held to staV to discuss research priorities and discuss policy and research matters of other areas of mutual interest. mutual interest. Historically, BBSRC had specific working relationships with the former SEERAD with respect to the management of research institutes inherited from the UK Agricultural and Food Research Service, which included the Scottish Agricultural and Biological Research Institutes and the Research Institutes sponsored by the BBSRC. Discussions on these matters are still held as required. EPSRC Formal Memorandum of Understanding No high level agreements; with annual Concordat meetings Agent for EPSRC Industrial CASE involving WAG, HEFCWandEPRSC; scheme1; Co-sponsor with EPSRC in Agent for EPSRC Industrial CASE TSB’s Knowledge Transfer scheme1 Partnerships.2 Co-sponsor with EPSRC in TSB’s Knowledge Transfer Partnerships.2 ESRC Concordat agreement with WAG. As Concordat agreement with Scottish part of this there is annual meeting at Government: As part of this there is which common issues, areas for future annual meeting at which common issues, collaboration and emerging priorities are areas for future collaboration and discussed. emerging priorities are discussed. MRC Annual meetings to be arranged at CEO Annual meetings between CEO (MRC) and CMO level. and CSO and CMO. Regular meetings and discussion of Regular meetings and discussion between funding opportunities with WORD senior oYce staV and CSO staV. senior staV. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Welsh Assembly Government (WAG) Scottish Government NERC NERC has an annual high (director) NERC and the Scottish Government level meeting with WAG, which is also generally meet annually at a strategic attended by representatives from the level, though the last one was in 2006. Environment Agency Wales and Two of the Scottish Government’s HEFCW. Havard Prosser (WAG Chief agencies—the Scottish Environment Environmental Science Adviser) always Protection Agency (SEPA) and Scottish attends and at the most recent meeting Natural Heritage (SNH)—also usually (May 2008) the WAG Head of Skills attend. Until being disbanded in 2007, Policy, Employability and Knowledge NERC had observer status on the Transfer and the WAG Head of Science, Scottish Government’s Strategic Science Innovation and Enterprise Policy also Advisory Committee (SSAC). attended. STFC Memorandum of Understanding with Meetings as required with the Scottish WAG with bi-annual meetings between Government. WAG and Senior STFC Management (also attended by HEFCW). 1 The RDA, Scottish Enterprise and WAG allocate a small number of Industrial Case Students on EPSRC’s behalf. 2 EPSRC, along with WAG and the Scottish Government and other Research Councils are among the 17 sponsors in the Technology Strategy Board’s Knowledge Transfer Partnership programme.
Table 3
RESEARCH COUNCIL INTERACTION WITH THE HIGHER EDUCATION FUNDING COUNCIL FOR WALES AND THE SCOTTISH FUNDING COUNCIL
HEFCW SFC AHRC No high level interactions. No high level interactions. BBSRC Covered by the Memorandum of No formal arrangements in place, but Understanding with the Welsh Assembly regular contact is maintained informally Government. through meetings and correspondence. EPSRC Partner with EPSRC in its Science and Partner with EPSRC in its Science and Innovation Awards.1 Innovation Awards.1 ESRC HEFCW attends the concordat meeting Representative of SFC attends the between the ESRC and the Welsh concordat meeting between the ESRC Assembly Government. and the Scottish Government. MRC Work periodically with HEFCW. Work periodically with SFC. NERC The Chief Executive of HEFCW, No direct interaction, although SFC Professor Philip Gummett, attends the (David Gani) had observer status on the annual NERC/WAG meeting, with one Scottish Government’s Strategic Science or two colleagues. Advisory Committee (SSAC) until it was disbanded in 2007. STFC Covered by the Memorandum of Meetings and other contact with the SFC Understanding with the Welsh Assembly as required as well as broader Government. involvement through Scottish University Physics Alliance (SUPA) on a regular basis at diVerent levels within the STFC. 1 Science and Innovation Awards were introduced by EPSRC in 2005 to support strategic areas of research that are particularly at risk.
Memorandum submitted by Professor Michael Scott, Principal, the North East Wales Institute of Higher Education (NEWI)
Provision of Cross-Border Public Services for Wales
The North East Wales Institute of Higher Education (NEWI) is an expanding Higher Education Institution (HEI) with approaching 8,000 students, that is in the final stages of its application for taught degree awarding powers and university title. NEWI has been a full member of the University of Wales since 2004 and is based in Wrexham. With that comes an essentially Welsh ethos. The Institute has close collaborative links with HEIs and Further Education Colleges (FECs) and with businesses in both Wales Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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and England. Given its location less than ten miles from the border with England, NEWI is uniquely qualified to comment on cross-border provision of public services following devolution, informed by both consultancy work and practical experience. NEWI welcomes the call for evidence and provides below, from its unique perspective, a report on the cross-border provision of: — further and higher education; — health and social care; and — transport. The Senior Executive at NEWI would be supportive of any further work on cross-border issues, both by entering into debate with the Committee and by taking forward research into these issues.
Further and Higher Education
The perspective of NEWI, as the HEI in Wales closest to the border, is of particular relevance. NEWI, in common with other Welsh HEIs, collaborates with many HEIs in other regions of the UK, in a variety of ways. Institutions appoint external examiners, and honorary research and teaching staV from HEIs from any area of the UK. There is cross-border working in staV development, such as a senior management developmental activity that NEWI has organized with Keele University, StaVordshire. There is cross-border collaboration on research and development projects. The Research Councils and the Technology Strategy Board have a UK wide brief and invite collaborative proposals from multiple partners. NEWI has collaborated with English institutions in several bids for research funding and has benefited from the availability of cross border expertise in conducting such research. Our partners in current or recent collaborative research include the University of Bath, the University of Durham, University College London, and Surrey University. Through the OpTIC (Opto-electronics Technology and Incubation Centre) Technium in St Asaph, NEWI collaborates with Cambridge University and Cranfield University. Such partnerships enable complementary knowledge and facilities to be brought together in solving complex research problems. The outcome from such research benefits the research community generally as well as industry and students in Wales. Collaborative arrangements for educational provision in further and higher education also cross the border. NEWI collaborates with a number of English FECs, for example, in validating Foundation Degree programmes and other sub-degree awards at Shrewsbury College of Arts and Technology and developing a partnership with Wirral Metropolitan College. NEWI works also with Reaseheath College by out-reach delivery of HE programmes at the college’s premises, and is pleased to provide staV development for academic staV at Reaseheath a Nantwich based college which was awarded the title of “Most Outstanding Commitment to Education and Training” in 2007 in respect of its horticulture provision. NEWI has been exploring the possibility of developing provision in animal health in collaboration with the University of Liverpool, which has one of its Veterinary Science campuses less than 20 miles from NEWI. Increasingly NEWI’s cross-border educational collaboration includes not only HE or FE institutions, but also corporate training organizations and companies (eg SACCS Limited, Shrewsbury; Scalchemy Training and Development Ltd, Worcester). There are a number of cross-border issues around educational provision. Normally, student places funded by the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales cannot be taken up by Welsh institutions delivering or validating programmes at partner institutions in England. For institutions near the Welsh-English border this can be a significant issue. There may be a market for a Welsh institution’s programmes in a neighbouring district of England, and a partner English institution wishing to collaborate on provision; however, the current HE funding regime does not support such delivery. The demand for the provision remains unmet, and a market opportunity is lost for both institutions. There is concern about reports that English HE institutions have been permitted to buy facilities in Wales and to run courses from them, such as the University of Central Lancashire purchasing Tyn Dwr Hall at Llangollen. There is a perception that a Welsh institution would not be permitted to purchase facilities in England in order to grow its academic base; if this is the case, Welsh HEIs are disadvantaged by unfair competition and restrictions. The diVerential HE fees regime between Wales and England means that English students studying qualifications validated by Welsh HEIs at FECs in England have a financial disincentive compared to their Welsh counterparts to proceed to top up degree studies at the partner Welsh HEI. Care is needed in the implementation of policies intended to benefit Welsh students, that students studying close to the border are not inadvertently disadvantaged. Welsh students may find that the closest higher education provision in their subject of choice is over the border in England, but that this choice of institution means that they are subsequently prevented from practising professionally in Wales because of curricula and policy diVerences. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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NEWI is aware that data appear to show a “funding gap” between Welsh HEIs and English or Scottish HEIs. Given that all HEIs are in competition, the comparatively lower level of funding given to Welsh HEIs disadvantages them in the market place. Welsh institutions are able to provide fewer resources per student, possibly resulting in equipment and buildings being of a lower standard. Press releases indicate that there have been substantial investments in individual English HEIs and FECs in recent years far in excess of sums invested in any individual Welsh HEI. The Higher Education Funding Council for Wales provides funding to support collaboration and reconfiguration amongst Welsh institutions. Whilst such a fund is welcomed, it is generally less valuable to those institutions close to the border with England, for which collaboration would be more appropriate with English institutions because of geographical proximity. There are 12 English HEIs which are geographically closer to NEWI than the nearest Welsh HEI. Chester University, for example, is approximately 13 miles from NEWI whereas the nearest Welsh HEI (Bangor University) is approximately 72 miles away. NEWI believes that support for cross-border collaboration would be beneficial to Welsh HEIs and to the Welsh people. It appears that there are currently no Welsh-based representatives on the Councils of several of the Research Councils including MRC, NERC, AHRC or BBRSC and so there may be an issue concerning the lack of a Welsh voice steering the work of these organizations which fund a large proportion of the fundamental research undertaken in the UK. This may be reflected in concern that Welsh HEIs receive significantly less from the Research Councils per FTE academic staV member than English HEIs, with consequent implications for the outcome of the last Research Assessment Exercise (2001) and external, including international, perceptions of the quality of higher education in Wales. It is the case that there is excellent higher education in Wales. The appointment of Welsh graduates to senior posts on either side of the border can only enhance the reputation of Wales. Similarly, if Wales is to be fully recognised for its excellence in higher education, Welsh HEIs need to be supported in oVering programmes and undertaking research that can attract students, employers and research partners that are both within and outwith of Wales. Where engagement with HE in Wales has a positive impact on a person’s career, or in the case of consultancy and research, the competitiveness of a business or enterprise, then Wales naturally creates a network of ambassadors who testify to the high quality service they received. The success of Scotland in creating a “quality brand” in HE demonstrates the eVectiveness and importance of ensuring that HE is recognised beyond regional, national, European and international borders.
Conclusion
Despite its proximity to the border NEWI is firmly rooted in Wales. One advantage of this is the comparatively easy access it has to ministers and civil servants at the Assembly Government. The Institute believes this relationship sometimes allows NEWI’s views to be reflected in the policies and strategies emanating from the Assembly Government. An example of this is the Wales Spatial Plan which recognises the geographical influences on North East Wales and advocates further collaboration across the border while at the same time expanding the role of Wrexham (and NEWI) as a major centre within North East Wales.
References Bogdanor, V (1999) Devolution in the United Kingdom. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Brooks N (2005) Cardiac Services in the UK: are some areas more equal than others? The British Journal of Cardiology vol 12, no 3 pp 67–168. Cwmni Iaith (2002) An overview of the Welsh Language Provision in Care Homes for older people in Wales’ Eight Most Welsh-Speaking Counties. Welsh Language Board. CardiV. Davies S, Devolution stirs policy evolution Health matters issue 54, Winter 2003, pages 12–13. DoH (2007) Protocol on cross-border issues for NHS-funded nursing care in care homes in England and Wales. Irvine, F, Roberts, G, Jones, P, Spencer, L, Baker, C and Williams, C (2006) Communicative Sensitivity in the bilingual healthcare setting: A qualitative study of language awareness. Journal of Advanced Nursing vol 53, no 4 pp 1–13. Jackson-Read, C and Watkins-Young, L (2005) West Midlands Mid-Wales Cross Border Issues: Framework for Action: research and Consultation Report. Rubus, Worcestershire. Keating, M, Stevenson, L and Loughlin, J (2005) Devolution and Public Policy: Divergence or Convergence. Available at http://www.devolution.ac.uk/Keating2.htm Lister S (2008), Postcode lottery in Wales on muscle disease Daily Post. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Misell, A (2000) Welsh in the health service: The scope, nature and Adequacy of Welsh language provision in the NHS in Wales. Welsh Consumer Council. CardiV. Welsh Health Circular WHC (2007) 036—renewed protocol until 31.3.08. White P, James D, Ansell D, Lodhi V and Donovan K L (2006) Equity of access to dialysis facilities in Wales. QJ Medicine, 445–452. March 2008
Memorandum submitted by Swansea University The Engineering School in Swansea University has for many years pioneered successful partnerships between academia (involving the Welsh HEIs), industry and the Research Councils, notably the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council (EPSRC). The most significant long term collaborations have been those involving research and training since they deliver both exploitable knowledge and the people with the skills that industry needs. This year has represented a step change for the funding available in Wales from EPSRC with the principality eVectively cut oV from secured future funding; this will see an eVective annual reduction in Welsh HEI EPSRC funded students of 40 high calibre EngD researchers and around 30 one year Research Masters (MRes) students all of whom currently work with industry in the engineering sector. This disinvestment in postgraduate education in Wales is all the more confusing since all of the schemes which have been eVectively closed have been rated very highly in the EPSRC’s own independent reviews as will be detailed below. To start with the Engineering Doctorate in Steel Technology; this flagship scheme for the Welsh HEIs is a partnership between Academia (CardiV, Bangor, Swansea and Glyndwr) and 23 companies in the steel supply chain lead by Corus Group. The Centre was established in 1992 as a pilot programme (one of only three in the UK) and grew rapidly with industry and EPSRC support with successful independent reviews of the scheme quality and strategic significance to the economy completed by EPSRC in 1997, 2004 and 2007. Indeed, the EPSRC review of the EngD Scheme (completed in 2007) highlighted that the Swansea centred EngD was “an excellent programme“ with “a good focus on a cluster of target technologies”. The following points were specifically praised as particular “strengths” of our programme. — The engagement of an Industrial Advisory Board — Planning for future research and skill requirements and developing projects accordingly — Performance related element of RE stipends which help maintain high achievement — The strong commitment of Corus — The significant financial and in-kind contributions made by users — That projects are driven by strategic business needs — The strong industrial supervision — The “Themed” approach which facilitates links with industry These points accurately describe a vibrant, successful and forward-looking EngD Centre which supports a strategic pillar of the Welsh (and UK) economy. The 40 EngD Research Engineers working with predominantly Welsh based companies represent an important interface between the HEIs and industrialists and world leading clusters of research activity have grown out of the programme. To illustrate this, the launch in October 2008 of the £10 million Corus/Dyesol PV Accelerator project in Shotton Steel Works, which aims to functionalise the 100 million square metres of painted steel Corus produces with photovoltaic coatings, is directly linked to two pilot EngD projects the first of which completed in 2004. The cluster has expanded and now supports 20 industrial research and development positions and a portfolio of EPSRC and WAG funded research at the partner HEIs. Economically the scheme is very important for Wales in developing high level expertise within the industrial sector. Since the year 2000, 87 doctoral researcher engineers have graduated the programme and 70 are working in Wales with 96% recruitment of graduates into industry in the last four years. Even the most conservative estimate of the value of this to the Welsh economy is around £10 million per annum based on salary and “on costs” alone (ie assuming they do nothing other than take a salary and sit in an oYce!). To lose this stream of talent into the Welsh economy represents a very serious blow at a time when technology and innovation are more important than ever for industries in Western Europe competing in global markets. The positive indicators from the EPSRC Review in 2007 were also reflected in the EPSRC review of the Collaborative Training Accounts (CTAs) in 2008. Again the scheme was recognised as “strategically important” for the Welsh economy and business partners. These facts and the continued enthusiastic support of industry were reflected in the bid to EPSRC for an Industrial Doctorate Centre (essentially a Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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re-branding of EngD). The Welsh bid was rejected by email with a follow up letter which stated that “no feedback would be given”. Whereas the decision reached was, in our view, simply wrong the manner in which the scheme was dismissed is utterly condescending, indeed, possibly insulting to the institutions involved. Our industrial and academic partners have used their reputations to promote the scheme widely and have worked tirelessly to get the EngD recognised here and abroad as the premiere UK doctorate degree. To dismiss 16 years of dedicated and successful eVort in such an oVhand fashion was unworthy of EPSRC. We have never received proper response to our request for the reasons for rejection. In response to my email to the EPSRC admin team I was told that: — The successes of existing schemes were not relevant to the panel review. If success is not relevant then this calls into question the value of the recent costly and time consuming EngD review process — There was “concern” over the future demand for our product. This “concern” simply ignores the fact of 96% EngD employment in the sector since 2004 and the 2:1 ratio of project proposals and UK student applications to each funded place — There was “concern” over the international reputation of the researchers. This “concern” is completely absurd. The academics involved in Swansea MRC alone have brought in £14 million in EPSRC research grants and published over 300 papers in international journals in the last RAE period. Given that we pick the best from Wales as a whole and proposed working with metallurgy experts in SheYeld University and Imperial College any “concern” in this area is clearly groundless We have subsequently discovered that only 19 bids of the 41 received were taken forward to full business planning phase (with a view to funding 15) which goes against the figures promoted by EPSRC (89 out of 278) in which they have included all applicants to Doctoral Training Centres (the latter a completely diVerent programme in which students do classical PhDs in clustered topics in a University setting and not linked to any “industry” or “user”). We have also realised that in this instance the normal peer review process (ie proposals sent to four referees and then judged by a panel) was not used such that the panel acted as judge and juror. The composition of the panel was also of interest in that it was very light on industrial involvement with apparently no representation from manufacturing at all. By far the majority of members were academics and whilst the Chair was from Qinetiq, this is hardly an “Engineering Industry”. There was also no Welsh representation on the panel. The panel members did have connections to many existing EngD centres but interestingly to none of the UK Centres that were essentially closed. The reorganisation of EPSRC priorities has impacted on the Welsh HEIs in another way. Under the EPSRC funded CTA programmes a wide range of one year MRes research projects and studentships were funded. This is an important “lifeblood” in certain skills shortage areas such as metallurgy as a “conversion” course for talented science graduates. In addition, it allows industry sponsors to work on a speculative piece of research as part of a larger research cluster with an enthusiastic young researcher who might then join the company after the programme. As such it represents true knowledge transfer. The CTAs were reviewed in 2008 but even before this review was complete EPSRC had already changed the system to KTAs (Knowledge Transfer Accounts) in which Masters research was not countenanced. The EPSRC view is that MRes activity will now form part of the first year of DTC or IDC doctoral research. Since no Welsh HEI has either a DTC or IDC (see above) then there is now no EPSRC funded MRes activity for Welsh HEIs to collaborate with industry across the UK. The disinvestment in Wales is significant. The EngD and MRes schemes represent an annual Research Council income to Welsh HEIs of around £1.4 million which is matched by industry and is critically the catalyst for far more value added research activity in the various clusters at the partner HEIs. In addition, for the longer term, the fall oV in talented high calibre researchers entering Welsh industry will have a negative economic impact. With an upcoming period of recession, increasing global output of materials and the noted skills shortages in the UK this could make the industry sectors very vulnerable since innovation and product diVerentiation will be the success measures for a sustainable manufacturing sector in Wales. Professor David Worsley MRSC CChem Director, EngD Centre in Steel Technology, Engineering School, Swansea University November 2008
Memorandum submitted by Universities UK Universities UK consists of three national councils, the England and Northern Ireland Council (E&NIC), Universities Scotland (US) and Higher Education Wales (HEW). Higher Education Wales (HEW) was established in 1996 to represent the higher education sector in Wales. HEW is the national council in Wales of Universities UK (formerly the Committee of Vice-Chancellors and Principals of the United Kingdom). Its membership encompasses all the heads of the universities and higher education institutions in Wales. HEW normally meets six times a year; it elects the Chair and Vice-Chair to serve for a period of two years Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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and works closely with Universities UK on UK-wide matters. Individual Vice Chancellors and Principals also sit on Universities UK policy committees looking at higher education policies from a UK wide perspective. June 2008
Memorandum submitted by the University of Wales Institute, CardiV (UWIC) The purpose of this letter is to provide evidence on behalf of UWIC to the Welsh AVairs Committee’s inquiry into the provision of cross-boarder services for Wales. Higher Education Wales (HEW)—which represents the interests of Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) in Wales—is providing the inquiry with written information on behalf of the Vice-Chancellors and Principals of all the HEIs in Wales. UWIC endorses HEW’s response to the inquiry. UWIC’s response is therefore largely confined to exemplifying general points raised by HEW.
Investment Gap Data produced by the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales (HEFCW) show that in 2005–06, Welsh Higher Education (HE) is under funded by £61 million compared to England. UWIC might expect to receive an additional £5 million in council funding each year should this gap be closed. UWIC’s income in 2005–06 was £60 million. The funding gap matters because it is only a matter of time before under investment will be evident to students and other stakeholders. Divergent approaches to the level of public funding provided to HEIs in Wales and England will aVect student recruitment patterns. While some students may prefer to study locally (and some may have no other practical choice), many have the capacity to be highly mobile. 28% of UWIC’s students come from England; 12% are overseas students. This “business” could easily be lost to HEIs in other parts of the UK should prospective students perceive Welsh HEIs as having sub-standard learning and teaching facilities. Furthermore, there is the prospect that more Welsh domiciled students (which account for 56% of UWIC’s student population) would look to study outside Wales.
Initial Teacher Training UWIC is the largest provider of Initial Teacher Training (ITT) in Wales. With some specific exceptions (eg the training of Welsh language teachers), a teacher training qualification—whether obtained in Wales or England—is entirely portable from one country to the other. The mobility of students in selecting where they wish to study, and their future employment choices, means that there is considerable level of cross- boarder flow amongst ITT students. Consequently it would be logical for authorities responsible for ITT in Wales and England to undertake some aspects of joint planning, and for there to be consistency in some key areas of policy. The Welsh Assembly Government (WAG) is operating a policy of contracting the volume of students ITT courses. The policy—which is informed by the Furlong Review—is predicated on an assumption that there is an overprovision of teacher trainers by Welsh HEIs. Between 2004 and 2010, the number of places for trainee primary teachers in Welsh HEIs will be halved to 575. However, England will be increasing the number of places in its HEIs by 1,770 in 2009–10.
Knowledge Transfer and Enterprise The funding councils in both Wales and England wish HEIs to develop their knowledge transfer activities for economic and social benefit. Both funding councils operate funding streams to promote and facilitate this activity, and both encourage collaboration between HEIs. However, the funding schemes are designed to operate on a national basis—ie Welsh HEIs are not able to participate in the Centres for Knowledge Exchange (CKE) supported by the English funding council. This fails to recognise the reality that economic activity occurs across UK political boundaries. There are 22 such CKEs in England, each of which comprises a number of HEIs operating in partnership. The regional focus of this approach is not geographically defined in relation to English local government boundaries—it is recognised that HEIs should combine as they are best able to engage with businesses, many of which themselves operate across diVerent England regions. In cases where there is a significant degree of economic overlap between Wales and England and/or where there may be significant benefit to facilitating greater integration between neighbouring regional economies (eg West England/South East Wales, North West England/North Wales), it might have been relevant to allow the possibility of partnerships involving both Welsh and English HEI to have been constructed. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Whilst recognising the legitimacy and need for the Welsh and English funding councils to operate their own funding arrangements, there is scope for one to “buy into” a scheme designed by the other. As the Chief Executives of both funding councils act as observers on each others Board, there should be scope for such opportunities to be identified before funding arrangements have been “set in stone”. Jacqui Hare Pro-Vice Chancellor (Learning & Teaching) May 2008
Memorandum submitted by the Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills, Welsh Assembly Government
Executive Summary
This memorandum, presented to the Committee by the Minister for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills, provides evidence for the Committee with respect to provision of cross-border public services for Wales in the fields of education and training. Key points for the Committee to note are: — the extent of cross-border flows with regard to both Further and Higher Education; — student finance mechanisms and degrees of policy divergence with respect to England; — mechanisms for collaboration in respect of research funding; and — distinctive Welsh policy initiatives in respect of HE reconfiguration and collaboration, 14-19 education and training, additional learning needs and the Welsh Baccalaureate.
Introduction
1. The Department for Children, Education, Lifelong Learning and Skills is a department of the Welsh Assembly Government. Having responsibility for a range of issues regarding education, training and children’s services, it aims to improve children’s services, education and training provision to secure better outcomes for learners, business, and employers as set out in the Welsh Assembly Government’s strategic document for education and training, “The Learning Country” and in line with the aims set out in the Government’s overarching strategic document “One Wales”. The department seeks, through its activities, to help empower children, young people and adults through education and training to enjoy a better quality of life. 2. Cross-border activity in respect of the education agenda takes place under a range of heads. In responding to the Committee’s call, this submission will focus on the following, with particular reference to Further and Higher Education: — student retention and recruitment; — student finance; and — research funding. 3. Considering the education agenda more generally, and taking into account the Committee’s interest in policy, we will also be submitting evidence under the following head: — Policy coordination and divergence.
Student Retention and Recruitment
Student retention and recruitment—Higher Education
4. Student retention and recruitment in HE is undertaken, in respect of full-time applicants, in the context of a UK-wide system managed by UCAS—the Universities and Colleges Admissions Service—and, in respect of part-time and distance-learning applicants, by the institutions themselves. 5. Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) market their own courses across the UK by a variety of means, and there is a significant cross-border flow of students between Wales and the rest of the UK—as well increasingly from Europe and beyond. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Cross-border flows of higher education students Overall Wales is a net importer of full-time undergraduate students. In 2006–07 17,950 Welsh domiciled full-time undergraduates were enrolled at HEIs outside of Wales and 26,835 students from the rest of the UK were enrolled at Welsh HEIs—an overall diVerence of around 9,000 students.63 For full-time postgraduates, 1,945 Welsh domiciled students were studying outside of Wales while a similar number of students from the rest of the UK were studying in Wales. More Welsh domiciled full-time undergraduate students study in Wales than at HEIs in the rest of the UK and this proportion has been increasing (65% in 2006–07 compared with 59% in 2000–01). However, the proportion of full-time undergraduates studying in Wales varies across the Unitary Authorities, with over 80% of students from Merthyr Tydfil, Rhondda-Cynon-Taf, Blaenau Gwent and Neath Port Talbot enrolled at Welsh HEIs. While for a number of Unitary Authorities more students study outside of Wales than at Welsh HEIs—Powys (53% study outside of Wales), Conwy (55%), Monmouthshire (56%), Denbighshire (59%) and Flintshire (65%). Around 3% of English domiciled full-time undergraduate students are enrolled at Welsh HEIs. The proportion varies across the English counties—18% of students from Herefordshire and 15% of students from Shropshire were enrolled at Welsh HEIs. For a number of other areas, particularly in the South-west, around 10% were enrolled in Wales. The proportion of UK domiciled students enrolled at individual HEIs who are Welsh varies. In general the Post-1992 institutions have more students from Wales than from the rest of the UK. For the Pre-1992 institutions more students from the rest of the UK are enrolled than Welsh students (Aberystwyth 31% are Welsh, CardiV 41% Welsh) 6. These cross-border flows are also evident in respect of graduate leavers from higher education, with Welsh domiciled leavers being substantially more likely to take up employment in Wales after graduation, particularly those having studied at Welsh HEIs. The evidence below suggests that there are benefits associated with study in Wales in terms of attracting and retaining graduates to work in Wales, at least in early years after graduation.
Location of employment at around six months after graduation (2005"06 HESA Destinations of Leavers from Higher Education survey at around six months after graduation for UK domiciled full-time undergraduate qualifiers employed in the UK) 71% of Welsh domiciled qualifiers from UK HEIs were employed in Wales at around six months after graduation, with those who studied at Welsh HEIs more likely to be employed in Wales (91%) than those who studied at English HEIs (40%). Overall around 4% of UK domiciled qualifiers for UK HEIs were employed in Wales compared with 59% of UK domiciled qualifiers who studied in Wales. For full-time undergraduates entering employment there has been a net flow of graduates out of Wales over the years. For 2005–06, 570 more Welsh graduates were employed outside of Wales than other UK graduates employed in Wales. 7. At three and a half years after graduation the picture changes, with more outward migration being evident, resulting in retention rates lower that for the other countries in the UK but comparable with the English regions. 8. The section under Student Finance and Funding below provides further detail regarding Welsh Assembly Government policies being implemented to improve graduate retention rates.
Location of employment at 3.5 years after graduation (2002–03 HESA Longitudinal Destinations of Leavers from Higher Education survey at 3.5 years after graduation for UK domiciled part-time and full-time first degree qualifiers employed in the UK) At 3.5 years after graduation, 48% of qualifiers from Welsh HEIs were employed in Wales and 71% of those employed in Wales at six months after graduation were still employed in Wales. These retention rates are lower than the equivalent rates for the other UK countries but comparable with the English regions.
63 Trend information over a number of years suggests that the disparity is increasing, owing to a combination of fewer Welsh domiciled students enrolling at HEIs outside of Wales together with an increasing inflow of UK-domiciled students into Welsh HEIs. For example, in 2000–01 the net import was 6,615 and this has increased to 8,885 in 2006–07, an increase due to a decrease of around 1,000 Welsh students studying out of Wales and an increase of 1,000 students from the rest of the UK studying in Wales over the same period. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Student retention and recruitment—Further Education 9. Further education by contrast is locally promoted and recruitment locally managed, largely on the basis of what are eVectively “catchment areas.” Local promotion, together with travel schemes to facilitate attendance and relationships with local schools are key. 10. The vast majority of learners enrolled at Further Education Institutions (FEIs) in Wales are Welsh- domiciled; however, colleges in counties along the border with England or—in the case of Coleg Harlech/ WEA (North)—with a substantial residential component show a substantial presence of non-Welsh domiciled learners and house a substantial majority of such learners. 11. For information on Welsh-domiciled learners at English FEIs see Ev 145–146.
Cross-border flows of learners at Welsh further education institutions In 2005–06 259,720 learners were enrolled at Welsh further education institutions. 3% of these learners were domiciled outside of Wales. However, this proportion varies significantly by institution with higher proportions of non-Welsh domiciled learners occurring at further education institutions situated in the north east of Wales (Welsh College of Horticulture, Yale College, Deeside College and Llysfasi College) and south east of Wales (Coleg Gwent). In addition, both Coleg Powys and Coleg Harlech/WEA(North) also had notable numbers of non- Welsh learners. The non-Welsh domiciled learners enrolled at these seven institutions accounted for 88% of all non-Welsh domiciled learners enrolled at Welsh further education institutions in 2005–06. 12. Whilst some information regarding learner destination is collected for FE institutions, it is not equivalent in scope or detail to the HESA Longitudinal Destinations of Leavers from Higher Education survey and is unfortunately of insuYcient quality to provide useful input to this call for evidence. From 2006–07 onwards, the data-collection specification has been amended and it is anticipated this will have a positive impact on data-quality.
Further Education 13. Another cross-border flow, small in number but significant, relates to learners with learning diYculties or disabilities. Under the Learning and Skills Act 2000, the Welsh Assembly Government funds placements for learners with learning diYculties and/or disabilities (LLDD) at independent specialist residential further education (FE) establishments in England and Wales where individual learning needs are such that they cannot be met without specialist residential provision. 14. In 2007–08, 211 such placements were funded either in full or jointly with Social Services Departments and/or Local Health Boards at a cost of £7.491 million, of which 80 placements were at four specialist residential establishments in Wales. The Welsh Assembly Government currently funds placements at 30 specialist residential establishments in England and Wales. 15. The Assembly Government uses the same funding matrix as the Learning and Skills Council in England when securing these FE placements, so the cost of a placement is the same whether a learner is Welsh or English. The Assembly Government has its own procedures and processes in this regard and its relationship with specialist residential establishments is separate from the Learning and Skills Council.
Student Finance and Funding 16. The Welsh Assembly Government makes available a range of student finance products to assist Welsh learners in both further and higher education to access and remain in education. These cover both full- and part-time students and address fees, maintenance and allowance issues. 17. Student finance provision includes some elements, such as the Assembly Learning Grant—Further Education, which are unique to Wales, and other areas in which there is some degree of variance in the details of a package, although the overall value of the support remains the same, such as apportionment of fee and course grant for part-time students.
Higher Education: Student Finance 18. Most student support functions (higher education (HE) grants and loans) were devolved to the Assembly in 2006 from the former Department for Education and Skills via the Higher Education Act 2004. These powers now reside with Welsh Ministers. The Welsh Assembly Government currently provides student support through Student Finance Wales with its delivery partners, the Welsh local authorities and the Student Loans Company. Certain elements of the student support process such as the rules determining UK residency and “home fee” status remain non-devolved. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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19. The Welsh Assembly Government has set the tuition fee levels for designated HE courses in Wales, as follows: — From academic year 2007–08 in Wales—introduction of deferred flexible fees of up to £3,070 (£3,145 for 2008–09) a year. Fees oVset by the introduction of a non-means tested, non-repayable tuition fee grant of up to £1,845 (£1,890 for 2008–09) payable directly to the place of study. This grant is only available to students who normally live in Wales and who are undertaking a HE course in Wales. — A deferred fee is repayable by the former student who has taken out a loan, when his/her earnings reach a £15,000 threshold. — An Assembly Learning Grant (non-repayable) is available of up to £2,765 in 2007–08 (£2,835 for 2008–09), dependent on household income. Other specific allowances are available such as a Childcare grant and Disabled Students’ Allowance.
HE Full-Time Student Finance—major points of divergence with England 20. Tuition Fee Grant—As described above this is a Wales only policy designed to attract more Welsh domicile students to study and remain in Wales. 21. The latest UCAS statistics for 2007 entry indicate that 17,366 Welsh domiciled applicants were accepted by UK institutions—a 1% increase on 2006 and 19% higher than in 1997. 69% of the successful Welsh domiciled applicants were accepted by Welsh institutions, 1 percentage point higher than in 2006 and 17 percentage points higher than in 1997. 22. Enhanced maintenance grant in England only for 2008–09 entrants—from September 2008 English students entering HE with household incomes below £25,000 will receive the full non-repayable maintenance grant (£2,835), and students from household incomes up to £60,005 will receive partial, non- repayable grant. In Wales the 2008–09 thresholds will be: household incomes of £18,370 or below will receive a full non-repayable Assembly Learning Grant (maintenance grant) of £2,835 a year, with partial payments to households with income up to £39,300. Other territories have not increased their grant thresholds to the English levels.
Co-ordination of HE student finance 23. Co-ordination of policy and activity in respect of HE student finance occurs under the following three main heads: — Policy “Quadrilateral” meetings at least three times/year between the territories plus the Student Awards Agency for Scotland. The Student Loans Company (SLC) invited for part of the meeting. — UK project board chaired by the SLC for implementing student finance delivery each year (meets in Glasgow four times/year). — Within Wales, a standing Student Finance Wales Consultative Group meets on an ad hoc basis, with stakeholder representation from delivery partners—Welsh local authorities’ student finance oYcers, SLC, NUS (Wales), Higher Education Wales, Fforwm (the representative body for FEIs in Wales), and AMMOSHE (Student Services).
Higher Education: Student Finance—Support for Part-time Students 24. In Wales, as in England, part-time undergraduate students who take less than twice as long as their full-time equivalents to complete their course are able to apply for a means-tested Fee Grant and a grant to assist with course related costs (the Course Grant). 25. The way support is apportioned between fee and course grant diVers in the two countries, but the total amount that can be awarded to a Welsh-domiciled student, depending on his/her individual circumstances, is potentially greater than that available to English-domiciled counterparts. 26. Course grant—in 2008–09 part-time students will be able to apply for assistance with course related costs worth up to £1,050 (England £255) a year on top of the fee grant.
Fee Grant 27. In 2008–09 there will be three diVerent rates of fee grant depending on how intensive the course is. These are as follows (England figures in brackets): — A student studying a course at a rate equivalent to 50%–59% of the full-time course could receive a fee grant up to £620 (England £785) a year. — A student studying a course at a rate equivalent to 60%–74% of the full-time course could receive a fee grant of up to £745 (England £945) a year. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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— A student studying a course at a rate equivalent to 75% or more of the full-time course could receive a fee grant of up to £930 (England £1,180) a year.
Targeted Grants 28. Following the recommendations of the Graham Review of part-time study in Wales (Report published June 2006), eligible part-time, Welsh-domiciled students will, from academic year 2008–09, also be able to access targeted support which is currently available only to full undergraduates; this will be provided through a pro-rated version (reflecting intensity of study) of the Childcare Grant, Adult Dependants’ Grant, and Parents’ Learning Allowance.
Further Education: Student Finance—Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) 29. The Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) Wales scheme was introduced for 16 year olds for the first time in 2004–05. In 2005–06, the scheme was extended to include 16 and 17 year olds and, in 2006–07, 18 year olds. The scheme is designed to provide an incentive for students from lower-income families to continue and remain in full-time education. The principal component of the EMA is a weekly allowance, linked to satisfactory attendance, for eligible students attending learning centres in Wales. Students can qualify for awards of £10, £20 or £30 depending on household income. They can also qualify for periodic additional bonuses of £100 if agreed learning objectives are met. Following full roll-out of the scheme, some 30,000 students a year qualify for EMA funding.
Further Education: Student Finance—Points of divergence 30. The EMA scheme is similar to those run in the other UK territories, although minor diVerences have evolved since EMA was initially introduced in 2004—eg in 2008–09, whilst income qualifying thresholds in Wales will increase in line with RPI, those in England will remain static; the arrangements for allowing in- year reassessments in Wales are significantly more flexible than those which apply under the English scheme.
Further Education: Student Finance—Assembly Learning Grant—Further Education (ALG-FE) 31. The Assembly Learning Grant was introduced for the 2002–03 Academic Year following the recommendations of the Rees Review (Investigation into student funding and hardship in Wales) and originally provided targeted support to both HE and FE students from low income households. Following the transfer of responsibility for all aspects of student finance in 2006–07, the HE component of the ALG scheme was subsumed within statutory HE student support. 32. The ALG-FE is available to Welsh-domiciled students studying in Wales or elsewhere in the UK. For a grant to be awarded both the student and course criteria must be satisfied: a student must be ordinarily resident in Wales on the first day of the first academic year of the course; must be aged 19 or over at the start of the academic year; and the course must be supported through WAG-DCELLS (or equivalent)and requires regular attendance at a Further Education Institution or Other Learning Centre and involves at least 275 taught hours in each academic year. There is no equivalent to the ALG-FE in respect of England.
Research Council Funding and General Research Funding 33. In line with other countries in the UK, research in Wales is funded by means of a “dual support” system. Under this dual support system, most research is funded on a UK or European basis via the Research Councils, Technology Strategy Board, European Framework and other Programmes. 34. The Higher Education Funding Council for Wales (HEFCW) provides core funding to support overheads for contract research, support higher education institutions (HEIs) to establish areas of strength and to build capacity in areas of new or emerging science. Institutions can also use this core grant to match- fund EU Framework Programme contracts. This funding does not support research projects per se. 35. HEFCW’s core funding for this purpose in 2007–08 is some £65 million. It is allocated to HEIs on a formula basis, which is weighted towards research excellence. In addition to academic impact, there is an increasing focus on rewarding high quality applicable research and industrial partnerships. 36. The second strand of funding in the dual support system is research funded via a UK-wide competitive process through the Research Councils. The central criterion for funding is quality. The UK Research Councils set priorities and budgets under a framework set by UK Government that takes account of the broad importance of a research area to the economy and society, as well as the scale of scientific potential. An increasing priority is to engage end users in research and there are now specific targets for the amount of Research Council funding for projects that include industry. Welsh HEIs were awarded £35 million from Research Councils in 2007–08, which represents some 3.2% of UK HEI income. This proportion has remained at constant since 2001–02, though in absolute terms funding has increased. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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37. The Technology Strategy Board (TSB) established in July 2007 funds Research and Development (R&D) that is nearer to market but in areas where UK industry has the potential to be globally competitive in emerging areas of technology that also have substantial market potential. The TSB budget for 2008–09 to 2010–11 will influence funding of over £1 billion. This sum includes some regional funding in England. 38. The Welsh Assembly Government Health Department also has its own research funding of some £26.5 million in 2007–08. The Assembly Government is establishing a National Institute for Health Research to maximise impact of its research funding and help create synergies with other UK research funding bodies. 39. Welsh HEIs won research grants of £121.3 million in 2007–08 from Research Councils and other sources, with the non-Research Council income having shown significant increase. 40. In some areas, research collaboration between Welsh university departments has been strengthened through transitional support from a ring-fenced budget (Reaching Higher) which is provided to drive up performance in the Welsh HE sector. There are good signs that this reconfiguration agenda is successful, increasing capacity to win further funds. Support from the Department of Health and Social Services for the Clinical Research Collaboration Cymru has improved collaborations across Welsh universities health and social care research infrastructure and after two years is showing good returns in external research income generation. Collaboration is also developing across borders, such as between CardiV and Bristol Universities. In some research areas (and especially in EU regional funding) it has also been possible to leverage additional business investment, therefore driving up the scale and likely economic impact of research. 41. Co-ordination is achieved by Welsh representation on Research Councils. There is active participation by researchers from Welsh HEIs within each of the Research Councils. Appropriately qualified individuals from Welsh HEIs are encouraged to engage with the Research Councils, including involvement on peer review panels. 42. Co-ordination is also achieved through formal mechanisms. There are formal Memoranda of Understanding with all of the Research Councils and the Welsh Assembly Government. Within this framework, active engagement varies from Research Council to Research Council. The ESRC fully consults with the Devolved Administrations and their Funding Councils, liaises with them and oVers regular Policy Making Seminars. NERC has a Funders’ Forum which is held annually and consults with stakeholders, including Devolved Administrations. Other Research Councils liaise as occasion arises and directly with other Department’s within the Welsh Assembly Government. For example, the MRC meets regularly with the Welsh Assembly Government’s Health Department’s OYce of Research and Development and participates in the OYce for Strategic Coordination of Health Research. 43. There are several examples of joint research initiatives between individual higher education institutions in Wales and the UK Research Councils. In particular, the ESRC has several joint research initiatives with Wales, including: — UW Bangor Bilingualism Centre. The Centre is co-funded by the ESRC (who also have a role in the administration of the Centre), HEFCW and the Welsh Assembly Government. There is a theoretical focus, looking at the relationship between the two languages of bilingual speakers in bilingual communities. — Future Research Capacity Building in Education: Piloting an All Wales Educational Research Network is a £150,000 project, which has been co-funded by ESRC and HEFCW. — The Impact of Higher Education Institutions on regional economies initiative is a new £3 million research venture which aims to promote better understanding of the key economic and social impacts generated by higher education institutions in the UK. The initiative runs from 2007–10 and has been established by the ESRC, in partnership with all four UK Higher Education Funding Councils. 44. There is also a NERC Centre for Ecology and Hydrology at Bangor University, which is one of seven Centres for Ecology and Hydrology across the UK. Plans are in place for the integration of the BBSRC’s Institute for Grassland and Environmental Research (IGER) with Aberystwyth University and to strengthen links with other relevant research in Wales.
Funders’ Forum (run by DIUS) 45. The Research Base Funders’ Forum has been set up to allow governmental and non-governmental funders of public good research to consider the collective impact of their strategies on the sustainability, health and outputs on the Research Base including how the UK innovation system impacts on the research base. 46. The Core Group of the Forum meets quarterly. It includes representatives from charities, industry, Research Councils, Funding Councils, Regional Development Agencies, the Higher Education sector and Government departments, including devolved administrations. There is a representative from the Welsh Assembly Government on the Forum. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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47. Joint working on business interface with higher education—Wales provides a diVerent and increasingly simplified set of services to support business engagement with HE on research and technology transfer to those provided in the regions of England. Representatives of the Welsh Assembly Government and English RDAs (as well as other devolved administrations) meet regularly on the Research Innovation Science & Technology (RIST) Committee, which is sponsored by DIUS, to share good practice and address common issues. A joint approach to engagement with the Technology Strategy Board was recently set up. A Strategic Advisory Group supported by an Operational Advisory Group will seek to advise and lobby the TSB to invest in areas that the English regions and Devolved Administrations believe are most useful to building a competitive knowledge-based economy. HEFCW likewise enjoys a close working relationship with its equivalent funding councils on HE engagement with business (within the wider “third mission”), although funding deployment and techniques are somewhat diVerent.
Wales Contribution to European and UK-Wide Initiatives—The Bologna Process; PMI; UKIERI 48. Wales contributes fully to the European Bologna Process to create a European Higher Education Area (EHEA) by 2010 and promote the European system of higher education worldwide. In order to ensure that Wales’ HE curriculum and qualifications framework is in line with the EHEA’s overarching framework, it has joined with England to have its self-certification process assessed by the QAA. Wales’ national framework for credits and qualifications positions it well to participate in European developments. The UK Bologna Expert from Wales is active in developing links with Universities and pioneering partnerships in Europe. 49. The three DAs meet with DIUS every four months to share information on international developments in HE, including the Prime Minister’s Initiative for International Education (PMI 2) and UK- India Education and Research Initiative (UKIERI). Wales is fully signed up to PMI 2, with WAG (HED) contributing £135,010 pa towards the initiative. WAG also contribute £50k pa towards the UKIERI research collaboration initiative with Indian HEIs.
Reconfiguration and Collaboration within the Welsh Higher Education Sector 50. Reaching Higher, the Welsh Assembly Government’s strategy for higher education was published in 2002. It set out the rationale for reconfiguring the sector to build on strengths and establish greater critical mass of activity in key areas such as research. At the same time the Assembly Government established a funding stream to promote reconfiguration and collaboration. To date, there have been several successful initiatives funded under this ring-fenced budget. Examples include: 51. Wales Institute for Cognitive Neuroscience—Bangor University, CardiV University and Swansea University—Funding of £5.17 million has been approved for the creation of a Wales Graduate School in Cognitive Neuroscience and the development of partnerships between University researchers and the users of cognitive neuroscience and associated technologies. A major benefit of the partnership is anticipated to be the institutions’ ability to compete more eVectively for research income within the UK and on an international basis. 52. Research and Enterprise Partnership—Bangor University and Aberystwyth University—Funding of £15.4 million has been approved for this major collaborative proposal. The funding supports the creation of a joint strategy for collaborative research and a unified research support framework, with a merged research and enterprise unit to support grant applications and knowledge transfer activities. The overarching framework will support the establishment of a four joint research clusters in the first instance. The research clusters are a Centre for Catchment to Coast Research, a Centre for Integrated Rural Environment Research, a Institute of Advanced Functional Materials and Devices and a Centre for Mediaeval and Early Modern Studies, with a second phase of clusters to be initiated at a later stage. 53. Welsh Medium Provision—We are committed to promoting Wales as a bilingual and multicultural nation. Both the English and Welsh languages enjoy equal status, and an increasing number of students are studying through the medium of Welsh: in 2005–06 this accounted for 5% of Welsh-domiciled students studying in Wales. This is a result of greater support for the Welsh language in our education system. HEFCW’s Welsh medium premium enables HE institutions to meet the additional costs of bilingual higher education provision (delivering Welsh-medium HE costs on average about 25% more than equivalent provision through the medium of English). Additionally, all the Welsh HEIs are collaborating to expand the range of the Welsh medium provision they oVer, through a federal network (the Federal College) with the Welsh medium Development Plan launched in November 2007 paving the way for this. 54. Merger of Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama (RWCMD) and University of Glamorgan— Funding of £12.75 million has been approved to improve the student experience by administrative eYciencies and improved facilities. These include a 350 seat concert hall, two studio theatres, four drama rehearsal spaces, a suite of theatre design studios and additional teaching spaces. The Strategic Alliance between the RWCMD and the University of Glamorgan will help ensure the future success of the Conservatoire by enabling it to develop its facilities substantially further and will also allow the College to benefit from links with the University’s new CardiV School of Creative and Cultural Industries. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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55. Merger of CardiV University and University of Wales College of Medicine (UWCM)—Funding of £15 million was approved for this merger—the earliest large project from this fund. WAG/HEFCW’s investment for the merger led immediately to £8 million support from the former OST’s £30 million Science Research Rationalisation Fund for brain imaging equipment for the new CardiV University Brain Repair and Imaging Centre (CUBRIC). The CardiV Partnership has been operating successfully since 2004. Since the merger, research grant funding at CardiV University has risen from £58 million per annum to £77 million per annum since merger, and it is on track to more than double by 2010, according to an independent evaluation commissioned by HEFCW.
14–19 Learning Pathways
Background 56. The aim of Learning Pathways 14–19 is to transform young people’s options and opportunities by extending the choice and the flexibility available to all learners, especially those likely to leave full time education without any qualifications. We will do this by securing individually tailored Learning Pathways that meet learners’ needs, including the support they need to remain in learning and to achieve their potential. 14–19 Learning Pathways has been developed with wide support from all sectors. The funding available for 2008–09 is £32.5 million.
Learning and Skills (Wales) Measure 2008 57. The proposed Learning and Skills (Wales) Measure 2008 was announced in the Assembly’s Plenary on 15 January 2008 and the consultation ends on 29 April 2008. The Measure will ensure that learners of all abilities aged 14–19 are able to choose from a wide range of applied and general programmes from a collaborative options menu. 58. The provisions sought in the Measure will provide a legal framework that will reflect Learning Pathways 14–19 policy and provide the means to develop that legal framework as policy further develops. 59. The Measure will: — place a duty on Local Education Authorities to form a local curriculum for learners aged 14–16, and on the Welsh Ministers for learners aged 16–19, that contains specified learning domains; — enable Welsh Ministers to specify the minimum number of courses of study to be included in a local curriculum, specify the particular learning domain into which a course of study falls and specify the minimum number of vocational courses of study to be included in a local curriculum; — create a right for pupils of Maintained Schools to elect to follow courses of study from the local area curriculum. It will also enable regulations to specify the maximum amount of courses of study a pupil has the right to choose from and to elect to follow; and — provide for specification, by regulation, of the grounds by which a Head Teacher or Principal may decide that a pupil is not entitled to follow a course they had elected to do. 60. This Measure will provide a statutory basis for encouraging cooperation between diVerent learning settings, which will provide opportunities for young people to be given wide range choices, helping them to meet their aspirations and contribute to the future Welsh economy.
Raising of the School Leaving Age 61. The Learning Country—Vision into Action, the Welsh Assembly Government’s strategic paper setting out our vision for the future, makes clear that we want young people in Wales to develop to the limits of their ability, not to the limits of the system. Our target for 2010 is to have 93% of 16–18 year olds in employment, education or training and for no pupil to leave full-time education without an approved qualification. 62. Following the initial announcement in January 2007 that the then Department for Education and Skills (DfES) was working on proposals to raise the statutory learning age to 18, regular communication has taken place on the proposals between all administrations. Following discussions with all devolved administrations, the Green Paper has been revised to make clear that its proposals relate only to England. 63. On Monday 5 November 2007, it was announced at Parliament that the proposals to raise the compulsory learning leaving age to 18 would be going ahead in England. This anticipates that, by 2013, all young people up to the age of 17 should be in education or training (including training in the workplace) and working towards an accredited qualification. The age would be raised to 18 by 2015. 64. In Wales, the overall policy context has been set by the Learning Country and, within that, one of the key strategic policy areas is the development of our Welsh approach to the 14–19 curriculum, incorporating the innovative and very well-received Welsh Baccalaureate as an overarching qualification to meet the needs of this transition phase. In Wales we want to give the 14–19 and Welsh Baccalaureate initiatives time to bed down before considering major statutory changes concerning the leaving age. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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65. We acknowledge that a possible consequence of England raising the compulsory age to 18 that along the border we may have children from Wales being educated in England who will be encompassed by these provisions.
Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification
Background 66. Following a successful pilot from September 2003 to July 2007 and a positive external evaluation, the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification is being rolled-out to centres across Wales at Advanced and Intermediate levels in post-16 provision. The first phase of roll-out, from September 2007, saw a total of 76 centres approved and some 9,000 Welsh Baccalaureate students. 67. From September 2008 the second phase of the roll-out will see 101 centres oVering the qualification to some 18,000 students. The Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification oVers a qualifications structure for our 14–19 Learning Pathways and we want access to the qualification to be an entitlement for all learners. Every Local Education Authority area in Wales now has post-16 Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification centre. 68. In addition, 34 schools and colleges are currently piloting a Foundation level Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification in the 14–19 age range. In Key Stage 4 schools are also piloting the Intermediate model, alongside the Foundation level. This aligns the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification with our 14–19 Learning Pathways agenda and we expect to make decisions about whether to roll-out the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification at Foundation level and in Key Stage 4 in the summer.
Marketing 69. We have prioritised marketing the qualification, particularly with Higher Education Institutions (HEIs) and with employers. Welsh Assembly Government oYcials, working with partners, including WJEC, HE Wales, HEAT (the Higher Education Advisory Team, which is led by the University of Bath, to promote the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification) and Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification centres have been proactive to raise stakeholders’ awareness of the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification and of the skills that students develop through the qualification.
Higher Education Recognition of the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification 70. HEIs are autonomous institutions and are free to set their own admissions criteria. Significant progress has been made in raising awareness of the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification in HEIs across the UK. In September 2003, UCAS (the Universities and Colleges Admissions Service) announced that it had allocated 120 tariV points to the level 3 (Advanced level) Welsh Baccalaureate Core, when achieved as part of the full Advanced level Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification. This is equivalent to an A grade A level. There are some 50,125 Higher Education courses available in the UK. For almost half of these oVers made to prospective university students are made on the basis of UCAS points, so the 120 points recognition, within the tariV, is very positive for the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification. 71. Significant progress has also been made in terms of HEIs’ specific recognition of the qualification. All HEIs in Wales recognise the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification and it is becoming increasingly accepted in HEIs in the rest of the UK. Currently 20,728 of the courses that use the UCAS system specifically state that the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification is accepted as an entry qualification, either on its own or in a specified combination with other qualifications. 72. The increasing recognition of the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification, which is still a very new qualification (the first Advanced Diplomas were awarded in August 2005), is encouraging and reflects the marketing activities aimed specifically at HEIs to date, including three conferences for admissions staV,a revised information leaflet for higher education and direct contact with admissions staV. We will continue to promote the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification with HEIs to ensure they are aware that this qualification develops skills they say they want students to have.
Employers 73. Employers too, consistently tell us that they want employees to be able to communicate eVectively, they want them to have number skills and to be able to use ICT. They also want employees who can work in teams, solve problems and who want to improve their own knowledge and skills. The Welsh Baccalaureate Core is built around the six Key Skills which develop learners’ capacity in all these areas. 74. In addition, the Work Related Experience and Enterprise Activity that are part of the Welsh Baccalaureate Core have clear links with the world of work and provide an ideal opportunity to inform employers of the qualification. We have also revised an information leaflet for employers. This is distributed at suitable business and employer focussed events. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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75. This is another area where the Welsh Assembly Government will continue to work with partners to maximise awareness of the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification and its value to employers. The Welsh Assembly Government has received many messages of support for the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification form HEIs and employers, which could be supplied if requested.
The Welsh Baccalaureate and 14–19 Diplomas 76. An area which will be of particular interest to employers is the incorporation into the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification structure of the employer endorsed elements of the 14–19 Diplomas that are being developed in England. The full Diplomas do not fully align with the 14–19 Learning Pathways in Wales, particularly the provision for generic skills. We will, therefore not be implementing the full Diplomas here. However, we will incorporate: — the Principal Learning qualifications—which as free standing qualifications, could be used together with or instead of other approved qualifications as part of the Welsh Baccalaureate’s options requirements; and — the Diploma project—again a freestanding qualification, which could serve as proxy for the Welsh Baccalaureate Individual Investigation and possibly, depending on the specific nature of a student’s project other parts of the Welsh Baccalaureate Core requirements. 77. The flexible design of the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification means that we are able to adapt it to incorporate developments such as this, thereby giving students maximum choice in both academic and vocational routes. OYcials are working with partners including Sector Skills Councils and awarding bodies to make appropriate adaptations to the Principal Learning qualifications so that they will be suitable for use in Wales. Our intention is that the first Principal Learning and Project qualifications will be available, within the Welsh Baccalaureate Qualification framework from September 2009.
Special Educational Needs (SEN) and the Additional Learning Needs LCO 78. The UK Government’s White Paper “Better Governance for Wales” published in June 2005 set out the UK Government’s commitment to enhance the legislative powers of the National Assembly for Wales, as a democratically elected institution with its own detailed scrutiny procedures. 79. The Government of Wales Act 2006, Section 95 empowers Her Majesty, by Order in Council, to confer competence on the National Assembly for Wales to legislate by Assembly Measure on specified matters. These matters may be added to Fields within Schedule 5 to the 2006 Act. Assembly Measures may make any provision which could be made by Act of Parliament (and therefore can modify existing legislation and make new provision), in relation to matters, subject to the limitations provided for in Part 3 of the 2006 Act. An Order in Council under Section 95 of 2006 Act is referred to as a Legislative Competence Order (LCO). 80. The first Legislative Competence Order approved by both Houses of Parliament is the Additional Learning Needs LCO. It extends the legislative competence of the National Assembly for Wales to make new laws by Measure in relation to additional learning needs. The intention is to ensure that Measures can be made across a wider range of areas connected with the provision for education for children and adults whose educational needs diverge from those upon which the mainstream education system currently is focused. The reform of current provision about children’s special educational needs is an area of priority for the Welsh Assembly Government.
Recoupment and Belonging—Background 81. There are cross-border service implications under existing legislation. Until 1995, local authorities recouped the cost of educating all primary and secondary school pupils belonging to other authorities. Section 279 of the Education Act 1993 ended compulsory inter-authority recoupment for the majority of pupils. The provisions of the 1993 Act were incorporated into sections 493 and 494 of the Education Act 1996 and amended under sections 207 and 208 of the Education Act 2002. Statutory inter-authority recoupment was retained for pupils aged 5–19: — attending special schools; — with statements of special educational need; — receiving education whilst in hospital; and — receiving bedside tuition. 82. Voluntary recoupment was allowed for under 5’s where the LEAs concerned agreed. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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83. Before the Education Act 2002, where there were disagreements between LEAs over which authority was financially responsible for the placement, the issue was determined either by DfES Ministers or Assembly Ministers. In the 2002 Act England opted out of their determination responsibilities and inter- authority disputes are now settled in Court. However in Wales, there was no such opt out and policy has diverged with the Assembly continuing to determine disputes of this kind. 84. The Education (Inter-authority Recoupment) Regulations 1994 (No 3251) came into force in April 1995 and Circular 2/95, “Arrangements for Inter-Authority Recoupment after 1 April 1995”, was issued as guidance. The Education (Areas to which Pupils and Students Belong) Regulations were then published and came into force in April 1996. Circular 1/96 (Welsh OYce Circular 17/96 in Wales), “The Belonging Regulations and Inter-Authority Recoupment) was issued in July 1996 as guidance. 85. In February 2005, DfES commissioned Capita to investigate inter-authority recoupment for pupils with SEN and pupils receiving hospital education. It was found that existing regulations and guidance on belonging and recoupment are now very much out of date and contain so many obsolete references (certainly in the recoupment regulations) that it is diYcult to follow them. 86. The issue is further complicated by the fact that the recoupment regulations themselves contain several references to the Education Act 1993 which are central to the description of cases in which recoupment is required. The whole of the 1993 Act was of course repealed by the Education Act 1996. 87. There is a need to issue amended guidance which puts the needs of the child first and which encourages a partnership approach between Health, Education and SSDs where appropriate. This work will be undertaken in the context of the Additional Learning Needs LCO.
Post-16 Provision in FE 88. Under the Learning and Skills Act 2000, the Welsh Assembly Government funds placements for learners with learning diYculties and/or disabilities (LLDD) at independent specialist residential further education (FE) establishments in England and Wales where individual learning needs are such that they cannot be met without specialist residential provision. In 2007–08, 211 placements were funded either in full or jointly with Social Services Departments and/or Local Health Boards at a cost of £7.491 million. The Welsh Assembly Government currently funds placements at 30 specialist residential establishments in England and Wales. In 2007–08, 80 learner placements were funded in four specialist residential establishments in Wales. 89. The Assembly Government uses the same funding matrix as the Learning and Skills Council in England when securing these FE placements, so the cost of a placement is the same whether a learner is Welsh or English. The Assembly Government has its own procedures and processes in this regard and its relationship with specialist residential establishments is separate from the Learning and Skills Council. 90. Recoupment regulations which apply to local authorities do not apply in further education.
Other Ongoing Developments 91. As a consequence of devolution, the Welsh Assembly Government has developed a suite of policies in the areas of higher education and the post-16 sector, including further education that are designed to more closely align with the economic agenda of Wales. However, in developing these policies, the Welsh Assembly Government has been mindful to the cross-border implications of these policies. Therefore, the Welsh Assembly Government has engaged in co-ordination and communication activities across its policies. 92. The Leitch Review of UK Skills has required extensive cross-border working on policy and administration matters as “skills” is devolved fully to the Welsh Assembly Government. This has required clarity in the response to the Review from each devolved Administration. 93. The four Administrations agreed to the joint establishment of the UK Commission for Employment and Skills, which became operative on 1 April 2008, and the closure of the Sector Skills Development Agency and National Employment Panel. Agreement was reached to appoint “Country Commissioners” and to align the work of the UK Commission with organisational arrangements appropriate to each country. In Wales, the Assembly Government decided to establish a new Wales Employment and Skills Board, the chair of which would be the Wales Commissioner on the UK Commission. At the same time the new Board reports solely to Welsh Ministers. 94. Spinning out of the Leitch Review there have been a number of cross-country policy reviews, such as the future of Investors in People UK Ltd. 95. Other examples of successful joint working include the transfer of the Basic Skills Agency’s operation in Wales into the Assembly Government; Apprenticeship frameworks and other work on vocational qualifications. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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96. As the Welsh Assembly Government’s focus is on skills, there are a number of examples of cross- border partnerships and alliances which are in development, which will be of direct benefit to the people of Wales. Examples include the skills development training for train crews based at Wrexham on the new Wrexham—London Marylebone Service, the Mersey Dee Alliance (MDA) and the Composites Sector— Partnership in Action, where Airbus is working in partnership with the Welsh Assembly Government on new skills development in composites. April 2008
Letter from Rt Hon John Denham MP, Secretary of State for Innovation, Universities and Skills to the Chairman Thank you for your letter earlier this month following up on your earlier evidence session with Bill Rammell. I agree with the importance of my Department keeping in regular contact with the Welsh Assembly Government (as with the other Devolved Administrations). I had a phone call earlier this month with Jane Hutt of the WAG. In addition, Bill Rammell had agreed to meet Ministerial Counterparts in the Devolved Administrations on a regular basis, and David Lammy will be following this up. This is in addition to the opportunity for regular discussion at oYcial level at the Research Base Funders Forum (chaired by DIUS and including representation from the WAG and the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales). I would not want to raise expectations of a DIUS “strategic science” fund or site in Wales. Our policy for science and research funding is to fund the best science wherever it occurs in the UK, not to aim for a particular national spread of research investment. You mention the Harwell and Daresbury Science and Innovation campuses: whilst we have taken a strategic approach to these two Science and Technology Facilities Council sites, the rationale was eVectively the other way around: it was because there already were major research facilities at those two sites that we need to take decisions on how to develop the sites in a strategic way to make the most of them, not because we were looking to have certain levels of investment in particular places. I cannot comment on your points about additional funding for Wales beyond the Barnett formula, since these are outside of my Department’s responsiblities. I look forward to reading your Committee’s findings and recommendations. 30 November 2008 Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Memorandum submitted by Professor Charlie JeVery, University of Edinburgh
Introduction 1. This memorandum draws on findings from research supported by the Economic and Social Research Council under its research programme on Devolution and Constitutional Change, which ran from 2000-6 under my direction. In particular it draws on work done in collaboration with the Institute for Public Policy Research as reported in books on Devolution in Practice, Public Policy Variations in the UK in 2002 and 2005. 2. It is an inherent feature of devolved systems of government that the packages of public policies experienced by citizens vary from place to place. Devolution in the UK, as elsewhere, is intended, inter alia, to bring greater proximity of decision-making and in that way to reflect better diVerent territorial preferences and identities in public policy in diVerent jurisdictions. 3. It is no surprise, therefore, that devolution here, as elsewhere, has produced greater divergence of public policy. Indeed, post-1999 divergences have built on long-standing practices of territorially diVerentiation of public policy that are in part rooted in the diVerent terms of union among the diVerent nations of the UK, and the administrative practices developed before 1999 by the Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland OYces. The UK has long experience of territorial policy variation.
The Structure of Devolution 4. But the UK also has a structure of devolution that is very, and in comparative terms, unusually open to far-reaching policy variation and lacks the mechanisms employed elsewhere to balance divergent territorial preferences with overarching state-wide concerns. 5. There are three features of that structure that promote variation. The first is the relatively tidy division of powers between those reserved to Westminster and those variously devolved in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The division is neatest in the Scottish and Northern Irish cases, though Wales after the 2006 Government of Wales Act is moving in a similar direction, all the more so if a referendum is held and won on full legislative powers. The tendency is to establish four discrete jurisdictions in a range of important policy fields, including health, education, local government, planning and so on. 6. The second feature promoting variation is the UK’s system of financing devolution through block grants transferred to devolved administrations by central government. These grants are transferred unconditionally; the devolved administrations in principle have complete discretion in how they spend those grants. 7. The third feature promoting variation is the diVerent terms of political competition in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland as compared to Westminster. Westminster is dominated by a classic left-right contest between Labour and the Conservatives. The Conservatives are very weak in Wales and Scotland, and left- leaning Nationalist parties pull party competition there to the left (while also introducing constitutional questions into party competition that are generally marginal at Westminster). The terms of political debate in Wales and Scotland therefore diverge significantly from those at Westminster, as they do in Northern Ireland, where there is an entirely distinctive party system and constitutional debate. 8. Discrete policy responsibilities, full discretion on spending, and diVerent terms of party political competition have already fostered—and are likely to do so all the more over time—notable territorial policy variations in Wales, Scotland and to a lesser extent Northern Ireland. These extend some way beyond those variations inherited from pre-devolution arrangements. There are few institutional counterbalances to that dynamic of variation. In particular the UK lacks those forms of systematic intergovernmental coordination that exist in most other decentralised states to identify and pursue common objectives across jurisdictional boundaries and to build understandings of the legitimate scope of cross-jurisdictional policy variations and the implications for cross-border relationships that arise.
Cross-Border Policy Variation 9. There is a growing number of examples of policy variation. Some of the innovations of the devolved administrations—for example in children’s policy in Wales and on smoking in Scotland—have prompted UK-wide changes. Other devolved innovations—on free personal care, prescription charging, the licensing of NHS treatments, or tuition fees—have not been generally emulated. As significant a source of variation has been Westminster in its role as legislature for England. Its changing approach to the structure and performance management of public services has not been emulated and in many cases has been rejected by the devolved administrations. England also is a force for divergence. 10. A patchwork of diVerent territorial packages of public services has resulted. This—it bears repeating—is entirely consistent with the purposes of devolution. But without an institutional framework for a discussion of the cross-border and UK-wide coordination issues and other implications of cross- jurisdictional policy variation, the UK’s policy patchwork is and will remain ad hoc, inconsistent and confusing for the citizen. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [O] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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11. Some have pointed to the potential for territorial policy variation to corrode the UK’s ‘social citizenship’, the postwar commitment to a welfare statehood that treated all citizens equally irrespective of income or place of residence. Public attitudes surveys suggest that citizens in all parts of the UK share broadly the same values on the role and scope of the state and the obligations of citizens to one another. They also suggest (without the same depth of evidence) that citizens in their majority disapprove of the idea of territorial policy variation (even while endorsing devolved, and therefore potentially divergent decision- making in clear majorities outside England). 12. In these circumstances an under-coordinated structure of devolution runs the risk of producing perceptions of inequity that might lend themselves to political mobilisation. One example of this on a small scale was the recently reported (and, no doubt, methodologically suspect) commercial opinion poll in Berwick-on-Tweed which suggested that the majority of Berwick’s population would prefer re-unification with Scotland to enjoy what are perceived to be better public services there. Equivalent pollster-led skirmishes are conceivable on the Anglo-Welsh border, where in particular diVerent prescription charging policies have been contentious. 13. On a larger scale there have been repeated contributions in some sections of the London-based media, in parts of the Conservative Party, but also parts of the Labour Party in London and in northern England (and more mischievously the Scottish National Party in Scotland) that the arrangements for devolution outside of England are unfair to people in England. A particular focus has been on the seeming connection between the higher level of per capita public spending in Wales, (especially) Scotland and Northern Ireland as compared to England, and the perceived generosity (in some views, profligacy) of public services outside England. 14. These contributions have largely been misguided. They tend to misunderstand both the system used to allocate funding to the devolved administrations, and the pattern and sources of post-devolution policy variation, much of which has been driven by Westminster in England, and in many cases might be said to produce there ‘better’ or ‘more generous’ public services than those available outside England. However misguided, these contributions point to a potential for the political mobilisation of territorial diVerence.
Mechanisms of Cross-Border Coordination
15. To summarise: the post-devolution political system — Has a lack of institutional counterbalances to a structure that promotes territorial policy variation — And runs the danger—in part through widespread misunderstanding of the reasons for policy variation—of causing conflict over perceived inequities between the component parts of the UK 16. Other political systems provide examples of how more robust institutional balances and more rounded understandings of cross-jurisdictional equity and coordination can be achieved. Among the institutional techniques used elsewhere, but absent in the UK, are: — Statewide policy-making by intergovernmental agreement between central and devolved governments — Statewide framework legislation leaving a wide scope for detailed regulation and implementation at the devolved level — Joint central-devolved funding of agreed common policy objectives — Specific-purpose transfers of central funding to devolved administrations to achieve statewide objectives — Systems of fiscal equalisation to ensure all jurisdictions have suYcient resources to deliver equivalent levels of services 17. Typically, such institutional techniques are underpinned by codified, routinised and systematic processes of intergovernmental coordination. These processes provide forums for identifying common purposes, resolving any disputes that may arise, managing the interfaces between jurisdictions, and pursuing joint decision-making. They also, through their codes and routines, generate enduring common understandings about the purposes, benefits and limits of territorial policy variation as balanced against statewide objectives. 18. The UK’s system of post-devolution intergovernmental relations is extraordinarily underdeveloped. It would be diYcult to assess it as fit for purpose. The UK does have codified arrangements—for example Joint Ministerial Committees—but these in most cases are not used. Intergovernmental relations instead work typically through ad hoc, case-by-case interactions among diVerent and changing groups of oYcials. There is an absence of routine and as a result a failure to embed understandings of the ‘rules of the game’ in balancing UK-wide and devolved interests. Without clear, enduring common understandings of balance the devolution arrangements remain vulnerable to their own inconsistencies and the consequent danger of partisan mobilisation of territorial conflict. Processed: 23-12-2008 04:56:09 Page Layout: COENEW [E] PPSysB Job: 400105 Unit: PAG1
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Choices 19. This is an unsatisfactory situation. Its uncertainties are reflected in formal debates about constitutional relationships in Wales and Scotland, and at the UK level in the constitutional ‘review’ or ‘commission’ under discussion by the three main unionist parties. A number of options might be considered in this context: 20. The status quo. The discussion above suggests that the ill-coordinated ad-hockery of current arrangements is not the optimal route forward. Two alternative trajectories appear possible. 21. Renewal of union. Some mixture of the types of technique listed under paragraph 16. are introduced, and underpinned by a more systematic approach to intergovernmental relations. This option would involve the identification of, and measures to achieve, UK-wide objectives across jurisdictional borders. In doing so, it may require some restrictions on the current scope of devolved responsibilities; it is not clear that the devolved administrations would be willing to accept this. A more systematic approach to joint decision- making would also require a conception in Westminster and Whitehall of power-sharing with the devolved administration in the identification and pursuit of common objectives; it is not clear that Westminster and Whitehall would be willing to accept this. 22. A state of the autonomies. This option would not involve the pursuit of a wide range of shared objectives, but rather the acceptance of growing territorial policy variation by the devolved administrations and by Westminster acting for England. In eVect England would be governed as a unitary sub-state of the UK by Westminster, while Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would pursue autonomous objectives, no doubt on the basis of a fuller devolution of powers than at present, including extensive fiscal autonomy. The eVect would be to harden the UK’s internal borders and limit the scope of citizenship rights enjoyed uniformly across the UK. It is not clear that this option would receive public support, for reasons stated above in paragraph 11. 23. These alternatives are presented here in bald terms. Presented baldly they each appear to present diYcult problems. No doubt there are elements in them that are reconcilable (for example the Liberal Democrats’ Steel Commission in Scotland proposed devolution arrangements with greater autonomy alongside measures to strengthen the UK union). Yet put baldly they raise issues of principle whose resolution would appear a precondition for sustainable reform: do we want a more consciously integrated union than at present, with limits on the scope of cross-border variations; or are we happy to see far-reaching diVerentiation in what the UK state does for its citizens from one part of the UK to the next? March 2008
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