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Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 383

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 aware. I ask the honourable member for Springvale to remain silent.

Mr POPE (Minister for Labour) -On the point of order, Mc Speaker, if anyone noticed, the figure "30" The SPEAKER (Hon. Ken Coghill) took the chair at was still on the digital clock when the Leader of the 10.35 a.m. and read the prayer. Opposition jumped up on a point of order. The Treasurer had only just opened his mouth when the DISTINGUISHED VISITOR Leader of the Opposition jumped down his throat. It is an absolute disgrace. The SPEAKER - Order! Before commencing proceedings I welcome on behalf of members of the If this were a legitimate point of order one would be Legislative Assembly the Honourable Barry House, able to listen to it with a degree of understanding. a member of the Westem Australian Legislative The Treasurer had hardly opened his mouth before CowlCil, who is present in the public gallery. He is the point of order was called. Obviously there is no the guest of the honourable member for Ballarat point of order. North. The SPEAKER - Order! At this stage of the Treasurer's reply I do not uphold the point of order QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE but I remind him that he must address the substance of the question and that he should not debate the matter. VICTORIAN EQUITY TRUST Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - Thank you, Mr Speaker. It Mr KENNETf (Leader of the Opposition) - I was by way of replying to an refer the Treasurer to the assurance he gave at a interjection that I was making the point that there were conflicting statements from the shadow press conference on Monday regarding the Treasurer and the Leader of the Opposition with g~ven~ent's financial obligations in paying out its Vlctonan Equity Trust program, to the different regard to the opposition's attitude to the reserves of answers he gave in Parliament yesterday and to a statutory authority. One was mouthing a public subsequent comments by his spokesman that the campaign against them and saying quite dearly that Treasurer was confused. Which version of these he proposes to take them away; the other was saying three scenarios did Cabinet act upon? he would never do that.

An honourable member interjected. Tuming to the question, and ignoring further interjections, I believe what I said in Parliament Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - I am not yesterday was very clear, but I am happy to go over surprised you are confused! The honourable that in detail now. With respect to the payout of member for Brighton said on the radio this moming some $710 million to the Victorian Equity Trust, the statutory authorities will assume responsibility for that the opposition would not under any circumstances touch the reserves of the authorities. some $630 million of that amount.

Mr KENNEIT (Leader of the Opposition) - On The other $80 million will be assumed by the govemment. The total effect of that - the $630 a point of order, Mc Speaker, the Treasurer is now debating the issue, which is not relevant to the million from the statutory authorities, which the authorities will pay by a mixture -- question. If the Treasurer is not prepared to answer the question, he should sit down. The question was quite specific. We have had three different Mr Kennett interjected. explanations from the Treasurer and the opposition believes Parliament and the public are entitled to Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - To take up the interjection of the Leader of the Opposition, that $630 million know on what scenario the Cabinet acted. from the statutory authorities will be paid for, Mr Micallef interjected. firstly, from their reserves and, secondly, from their borrowings. They are the two sources of funds for the statutory authorities. The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable member for Springvale is out of order, as he is well QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

384 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992

The Budget sector responsibility for the $80 million To retum to the question: with regard to the will be a borrowing that will have an impact on next statutory authority mechanism for paying for VET, I year's Budget of approximately $8 million - or a reaffirm that that will come from a mixture of maximum of $8 million. reserves and new borrowings. That is the poSition I have consistently put in this place for the past two That is the situation I explained to the House days. yesterday over the course of four or five questions and responses, and I am happy to go through it GREAT SOUTHERN STAND again today. That is also the position I put to the press when I made the alU10W1cement on the Mr W ALSH (Albert Park) - Will the Premier Victorian Equity Trust. outline to the House the benefits to Victoria of the completion of the Great Southem Stand at the Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National Melboume Cricket Ground? Party) - Given that at the latest reporting date the State Electricity Commission had short-term liquid Ms KIRNER (Premier) - Today everyone in assets of $41.2 million, the Gas and Fuel Victoria is celebrating the completion and handing Corporation, $10.8 million, and Melboume Water, over of the Great Southem Stand. $9.8 million, will the Treasurer explain whether the resultant shortfall of $568.2 million on the VET Mr Bildstien interjected. payout will simply become a new borrowing and thus add to the aggregate State debt? Ms KIRNER - The stand, which will officially be opened today, is located on a fitting site for a Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - The figures world-class sporting event. Not only will the World the Leader of the National Party mentioned refer to Cup attract some 90 000 cricket lovers but the the cash assets of the authorities, not their reserves. television coverage will be beamed by satellite to 29 Furthermore -- cow1tries. Those people will be able to see what the Leader of the OppOSition is never prepared to Mr McNamara interjected. acknowledge, which is the rich asset base of our State. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - There is a very considerable difference. I do not expect you to Under successful Leaders like Sir Henry Bolte, the w1derstand that, but there is. Secondly, and this has then Mr Hamer and the honourable member for been made very clear -- BW1doora Victoria has been prepared to invest in the future. Mr Stockdale interjected. The opposition is saying that -- Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - You talk about selling dams. We know you have committed yourself to Honourable members interjecting. selling all of the statutory authorities. The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the Premier to The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the Treasurer to pause while honourable members, including the address the Chair. honourable member for Springvale, come to order.

Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - I was taking up the Ms KIRNER - The Leader of the Opposition is interjection of the honourable member for Brighton, implying in every comment he makes about the who has made it clear that if ever he were to become Budget management of the State that there should Treasurer he would sell all of Victoria's statutory be no investment in major capital facilities, no authorities, a course of action that I believe would be ongoing public investment and no public facilitation grossly irresponsible. of private sector investment. The Leader of the Opposition does not want the 19000 international The govemment's position is different from that. We World Cup visitors; he does not want the 37000 intend to put the statutory authorities on an efficient interstate visitors; he does not want the 1000 basis and to retain them in full public ownership. additional jobs that have been generated by the That is a substantial difference of view. project, and he certainly does not want to acknowledge that it has been built on time and below cost, because that would require -- QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

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Honourable members interjecting. he wants to take is the risk that does no good, the risk of the superannuation quantum leap. He is not The SPEAKER - Order! There is far too much interested in the risk that delivers the public good. audible conversation from both sides of the Chamber. I know that the Leader of the OppOSition is disappointed -- Ms KIRNER - The honourable member for Hawthorn would have to acknowledge that the way Mr J. F. McGRATH (Warmambool)-Mr industrial relations was handled on that site was Speaker, my point of order deals with the Premier's first class, that the contribution of the Building debating of the question. In the interest of providing Workers Industrial Union of Australia was first class an adequate forum for question time as a time when and that it was facilitated by the Minister for Labour the accowltability of the government is questioned, I and our members on the Melbourne Cricket Ground point out that the Premier is now debating the Trust. question, and I ask you, Mr Speaker, to ask her to either round off or sit down. What we have today is due to the foresight of those people who were prepared to plan and invest in the Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - On the point future of Victoria. Thanks is due to the honourable of order, the question was: member for BWldoora, who we should be congratulating today. Will the Premier outline to the House the benefits to Victoria of the completion of the southern stand of the What does the opposition do? It does not have any MCG? sense-- We know this is an embarrassment to the opposition Honourable members interjecting. because it does not like any success and it does not like the fact that one billion television viewers will The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable be looking at this -- member for Malvern. Mr Gude interjected. Ms KIRNER - Isn't it interesting? The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the Deputy Honourable members interjecting. Leader of the Opposition. He is well aware of the Standing Orders of this place. He has been a The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the honourable member for a long time. I am quite prepared to act member for Albert Park to listen to the reply to the against him. It is important that the Chair be able to question he has asked and also to enable others to hear the argument being put on the point of order. I listen to it. ask hoilourable members on both sides, particularly the honourable member for Momington, to remain Ms KIRNER - I pay tribute to those people who silent. were prepared to have the vision, the courage and the guts to go ahead with the MCG Great Southern Mr KENNAN - This great and historic project is Stand despite the advice of the knockers on the other indeed the sort of project that is only completed in a side. In fact, Melbourne now has a world-class city like Melbourne once in a couple of generations. entertainment and sports precinct with a world-class The Premier was asked to outline the benefits of the capacity of 109 000 that is also the home of stand, which are extensive indeed. The fact that the Australian rules football; the National Temus Centre opposition does not want to hear about the benefits with a capacity of 15 000; Olympic Park with a does not mean that the Premier is out of order. She is capacity of 20000; and the Sports and Entertainment entitled to outline the extensive benefits of this great Centre with a capacity of 6500. achievement.

The Honourable Sir Henry Bolte said, when some The SPEAKER - Order! At the stage of the people suggested that it might not be a good idea to Premier's reply when she was interrupted I do not have the MCG as the prime stadium, 'We think it is believe she was debating the question, although a risk worth taking". And here we have the great some of her earlier comments may have tended to risk taker; this is the guy who says the young people do so. In view of the time I ask the Premier quickly of Victoria ought to be on about risk. The only risk to round off her reply. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

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Ms KIRNER (Premier) - I want to present to the Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - To reiterate, firstly, from Leader of the Opposition our great MCG the earliest days of the development of the VET it supplement in the Age as a basis for his was well wlderstood by the authorities that they consideration of future policies. would bear the responsibility for the repayment of their share. Secondly, we have for a number of VICTORIAN EQUITY TRUST weeks been discussing with the statutory authorities the VET, the reform of the government trading Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - I ask the enterprises and a debt for equity and dividend Treasurer: is if a fact that when he made the public swap. They are well aware of the proposition and I statement about the Victorian Equity Trust payout was involved in some of those discussions; officers on Monday he had not received approval from the of my department were involved with others and statutory authorities as to their financial officers of the Department of Manufacturing and commitment in this matter; have they Industry Development were involved in others. subsequently -- CHILD PROTECTION SERVICES Mr Spyker interjected. Mrs RA Y (Box Hill) - Will the Minister for The SPEAKER - Order! The Minister for Commwlity Services inform the House what recent Transport is out of order, as he is well aware. initiatives she has taken in relation to the provision of child protection services in Victoria? Mr STOCKDALE - Have the authorities subsequently -- Mrs SETCHES (Minister for Community Services) - I thank the honourable member for her Honourable members interjecting. question and her ongoing interest and action in this important area of social reform. From 17 March The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable Victoria moved to a welfare-based child protection member for Brighton is entitled to put his question system, and this is an historic moment for child so that it can be heard by all honourable members protection services in Victoria because it means that without interruption. I ask members on the we have moved from the dual-track system that was government benches to remain silent. delivered in the past by the police and Community Services Victoria. This was examined by Judge Mr STOCKDALE - Is it a fact that when the Fogarty in 1988; he recommended a welfare-based Treasurer made his public announcement on the child protection system in Victoria and that it be VET payout on Monday he had not received implemented fully by 1992. approval from the statutory authorities as to their financial commitment in the matter; have they The govenunent has acted on his recommendations subsequently approved the arrangement, and if so and there are now 520 child protection workers did they approve the Sunday version, the Monday across Victoria who have been fully trained and version, the Tuesday version or some other version? fully equipped and are prepared to take on referrals for child protection right across the State. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - From the time of the initiation of the Victorian Equity Trust it was Over the past twelve months a great deal of work well understood by the authorities that they would has been done by the police and Community bear the financial responsibility for the repayment of Services Victoria. Protocols on careful handling of the VET. referrals and complaints has been worked out with the police, who now have overall responsibility for Mr McNamara interjected. cases requiring investigation where potential criminal proceedings are involved. Community The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the Leader of the Services Victoria has the full responsibility for child National Party. I have already cautioned him today. protection across the State. He may think it is a funny matter, but the standing of this House is an important issue. It is important Victoria has a child-at-risk register with 5000 names that honourable members in every case respect the of children who may be in potential danger and institution and allow it to operate effectively. I will require protection. There is also an after-hours not warn him again. telephone service and a child protection hot line that operates 24 hours a day. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 387

So tremendous gains have been made by this Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, govenunent, with millions of dollars being placed Post-Secondary Education and Training) - On the into the system. We are now spending $24 million a point of order, Mr Speaker, the honourable member year on child protection in this State whereas in 1982 for Swan Hill has suggested that the issue of child we actually spent less than $700 000. protection is not worthy of debate.

That leads us to looking at what is happening with Honourable members interjecting. the Leader of the Opposition and his stated policy. He has said that he can guarantee no welfare service Mr ROPER - The honourable member has in the State, even if he ever gains government. He suggested that the issue of child protection is not has said that he would sack 14000 public sector worthy of a question in this Parliament. Because the employees and he would reduce government Minister is providing information to the House in spending by $1 billion a year. He has said on response to a question, he suggests she should be sat television programs that he would give no down. commitment to ongoing welfare programs in this State and that he would give no protection or I assure honourable members that this side of the commitment to any welfare service. House believes the issue of child protection is extremely important. The Minister is clearly The child protection service in Victoria is absolutely demonstrating that by advising the House that crucial for the statutory protection of children. Some Victoria has significantly increased its activity in this serious questions should be asked about what the area. The question specifically asked what has Leader of the Opposition intends for child occurred in the child protection area, and the protection. We should carefully consider New South Minister is appropriately providing information to Wales, where many child protection positions have the House on that vital subject. been axed. In fact, the New South Wales Child Protection COW1cil has had its fWlding cut and has The SPEAKER - Order! There are a couple of put out an addendum to its report which states that issues in the point of order. The Minister's answer child protection systems in that State have been has primarily been providing information on both progressively downgraded for the past two years current policy and policy proposals that she has and that they are crucial and in a critical state. considered. In that regard the Minister is in order. However, the Minister is out of order when she That is what is in store for child protection in proceeds from that point to attack the opposition or Victoria. It would be a return to the 1982 position individual members of the opposition. when the government had no clear responsibility for protecting children in this State. Serious questions I do not uphold the point of order generally but I must be asked about whether the opposition, if in remind the Minister she must confine her remarks government, would continue paying the $24 million directly to matters wlder her Ministerial that has ungrudgingly been given by this responsibility. I also ask her to rOW1d off her reply. government for the care of children. Mrs SETCHES (Minister for CommW1ity Mr Kennan interjected. Services) - Thank you for your direction in this matter. It is important to look at the current pOSition Mr5 SETCHES - From $700 000 to $24 million. in Victoria. We have 520 well-trained people who Last year in Victoria the 14 500 referrals that were are carrying out Victoria's statutory responsibilities. made had to be followed up carefully because of the One must consider the recent statements made by government's statutory responSibility. The the opposition. On 10 January 1992 the Honourable opposition has not given any commitment to Bill Baxter, in the Albury Border Morning Mail -- ensuring that any welfare services will continue. Honourable members interjecting. Mr STEGGALL (Swan Hill) - On a point of order, Mr Speaker, this is becoming farcical. If The SPEAKER - Order! In view of the time I ask question time is to be used to debate issues such as the Minister not to introduce further material but to this I suggest you should pull up the Minister and rOW1d off her reply. sit her down. Mrs SETCHES - The opposition has said the area where cuts will come first W1der a coalition PETITION

388 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992 government will be where lobbyists, such as those fact, if honourable members opposite did their against social welfare, squeal the loudest. The homework, they would understand that it is exactly government must act on behalf of children in the the position that the authorities have put to best interests of those children, and it will continue Parliamentary committees on a number of occasions: to do that. The government will not begrudge the that there should be a debt for equity and dividend resources required to do that. The opposition should swap. say what it intends to do for Victorian children. All the indications are that it will hurt children in this We are proceeding down that path and it is clear State. that it has the potential to reduce the level of public sector debt by some billions of dollars. REDUCTION OF STATE DEBT PETITION Mr MACLELLAN (Berwick) - I refer the Treasurer to the rather surprising statement he made The Clerk - I have received the following petition on Monday that he will reduce the $30 billion State for presentation to Parliament: debt by some billions of dollars by the end of this financial year. I ask the Treasurer: by how many Austudy and student concessions billions of dollars does he intend to reduce the $30 billion State debt by the end of this financial To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the year; is he able to tell the House whether it is Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: $2 billion, $4 billion, $6 billion, $8 billion or $10 billion by which he proposes to make that The humble petition of the undersigned citizens of the reduction? I refer him to his exact words: State of Victoria showeth that the undersigned students and staff of the Australian Marketing Training Centre We will have an opportunity to reduce by the end of request that the regulations governing eligibility for this financial year that $30 billion by some billions of Austudy and student concessions be amended so that dollars ... students attending private TAPE providers are able to receive these allowances in the 1992 academic year. Those were the exact words the Treasurer used on Monday. And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray.

Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - With regard to By Mrs Ray (61 signatures) the sums of $2 billion, $4 billion, $6 billion or $8 billion, they are very useful sums because the Laid on table. sum of $8 billion is the one that the Leader of the OppOSition said he could achieve over some eight SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE years. That is in quite clear contrast to the non-commitment of the honourable member for Motorcycle safety Brighton, who said it would take him two years to do absolutely anything about the level of State debt. Mr MAUGHAN (Rodney) presented report of Therefore we have not only a policy vacuum on the Social Development Committee on inquiry into other side of the House but also a clear contradiction motorcycle safety in Victoria, together with about intent to deal with debt. appendices.

What the government has provided is a proposition Laid on table. that will remove debt from the public sector. We are in a position of negotiation with the authorities - Ordered to be printed. and this has been made clear a number of times in this House - where the Budget sector will take from PAPERS the non-Budget sector a significant proportion of debt in exchange for a dividend flow. Laid on table by Clerk:

An honourable member interjected. Adult Parole Board - Report for the year 1990-91.

Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - It is a very reasonable Greyhound Racing Control Board - Report for the proposition and one supported by the authorities. In year ended 31 July 1991. MONASH UNIVERSITY (PHARMACY COLLEGE) BILL

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 389

Harness Racing Board - Report for the Year ended 31 That, pursuant to section 48B(2) of the Audit Act 1958, July 1991. Mr Fergus Ryan be appointed to conduct the audit to determine whether the Auditor-General is achieving Infertility (Medical Procedures) Act 1984 - Report of his objectives and doing so economically and efficiently the Standing Review and Advisory Committee on and in compliance with the Act. Infertility of the Approval of a Pre-Syngamy Experimental Procedure. This motion will put into effect amendments made to the Audit Act a couple of years ago which Loddon-Campaspe Regional Planning provided that there should be an audit of the Authority - Report for the year ended 30 September performance of the Auditor-General. That matter 1991. was supported on both sides of the House.

Seymour District Memorial Hospital - Report the year Indeed, some honourable members became quite 1990-91. Latinate in their discussions, and the honourable member for Kew used a phrase in Latin, which Statutory Rules under the following Acts: meant in English, 'Who guards the guards?" Public Service Act 1974 - Public Service The Economic and Budget Review Committee was Determinations No. 6. charged with the responsibility of choosing an Tobacco Act 1987 -SR No. 25. accow1tant to carry out the audit and of determining the way in which the audit should occur. In its Victorian Prison Industries Commission Act report tabled yesterday the committee sets out the 1983 -SR No. 15. criteria for the appointment of the auditor. Victorian Post-Secondary Education Commission - Report for the year 1990-91. The report says that the auditor should: be a member of a leading firm in the field of auditing and MONASH UNIVERSITY (PHARMACY consulting and should hold a prominent and COLLEGE) BILL respected position in the profession; have an appreciation of the role of the Auditor-General; have Introduction and first reading knowledge and experience in the use of modem audit methodologies and techniques; have Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, knowledge and experience in the application of Post-Secondary Education and Training) large-scale audit project methodologies; have a introduced a Bill to provide for the merger of the general knowledge and w1derstanding of the nature Victorian College of Pharmacy with Monash of public sector organisations and the Victorian University and for other purposes. government's system of financial administration; and, have the ability to allocate sufficiently skilled Read first time. and experienced staff to W1dertake the performance audit of the Auditor-General. VISTEL LTD The committee interviewed a number of leading Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - I move: auditors in relation to the matter and recommends in its report to this House that Fergus Ryan, who That there be presented to this House a statement by from my knowledge of him certainly satisfies the the Treasurer informing the House of a change in requirements the committee has laid down, be so ownership of Vistel Ltd. appointed.

Motion agreed to. The committee goes on at page 3 of its report to set out what should comprise the audit. It is interesting Laid on table. that the committee suggests there should be a survey of a sample of users of the Auditor-General's AUDITOR-GENERAL PERFORMANCE reports to Parliament to determine whether the AUDIT Auditor-General is meeting his objectives in relation to the performance audit. From time to time Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, different views are put about the Auditor-General Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I move: and his staff. Honourable members will recall that NATIONAL TENNIS CENTRE (AMENDMENT) BILL

390 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992 some hospitals have been concemed about aspects We commend the work the committee has done. The of their audits. I can recall a time when the appointment made is one that is obviously Auditor-General and the Commonwealth Bank eminently suitable, and we look forward to.the clearly had quite different views as to what the outcome of the audit. We believe it will provide not Commonwealth Bank believed it had paid for State only an enhanced accountability for Parliament but Bank Victoria. that the end result, whatever the outcome of the audit at the level of detail, can only serve to further Different views are held by people about this issue reinforce the authority and independence of the and the committee has asked that users be consulted Auditor-General and his office. and that there be a survey of a sample of auditees to examine the Auditor-General's ability and Motion agreed to. willingness to provide appropriate resources to meet their needs, to review the audit methodologies and Ordered that message be sent to Council seeking to review the overall management of resources concurrence with resolution. within the Office of the Auditor-General. NATIONAL TENNIS CENTRE A very comprehensive audit is proposed. As was (AMENDMENT) BILL provided in the legislation I introduced in 1989 and as determined in 1990, that report will be made to Second reading Parliament in September. Debate resumed from 14 November 1991; motion In examining the issue of resources it is significant of Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and Recreation). that there has been a doubling of resources for the Auditor-General over the past five years, and it will Mr REYNOLDS (Gisbome) - This is a small Bill, be interesting to see what comments Mr Ryan has in but it will have some profoWld effects, no doubt, on relation to that point. the management and running of the National Tennis Centre by the National Tennis Centre Trust. I commend the committee for the work it has done in choosing Mr Ryan to undertake a very difficult The reason for the Bill is quite obvious. It shows the task, and also in setting out the way that task will be govenunent's lack of wlderstanding of commercial carried out. enterprise in this State, or in any State for that matter, but we are talking particularly about the Mr STOCK DALE (Brighton) - The opposition Victorian government. supports the motion and the initiative it implements. As the Treasurer has outlined the circumstances in It was obvious that the tennis centre, when it was set detail, I do not propose to repeat what he has said up wlder the control of the trust, would be identical other than to say that the Economic and Budget to the Royal Exhibition Buildings, the Melbourne Review Committee has exhaustively interviewed Cricket Ground and many other buildings and applicants for the position of conducting this audit, edifices in Victoria. However, the government, in and I understand that, in terms of the cost of the forming the Act, did not allow for the fact that it exercise, Significant financial benefits will flow to the would need the same regulations and controls to State as a result of the diligence with which the manage the centre as were needed in the other committee pursued its task. venues.

I would only add to what the Minister has said that The Bill does two things: it allows the National it is an example of the way the committee system Tennis Centre Trust through the Govemor in can perform a function which not only complements Cowlcil to promulgate regulations to control the sale the working of Parliament, but also confers of merchandise and to control the behaviour of substantial direct and indirect benefits on the people who are within the centre for various reasons. taxpayer. It is obvious that the trust would make some money It is an example of an enhanced role for the from the sale of merchandise when the venue is committees in the day-ta-day administration, and hired to a particular entrepreneur. As I understand particularly in the areas where there is it, hawkers currently sell merchandise within the accountability to Parliament rather than to the tennis centre, particularly during the Australian executive government. Open and some major concerts, in direct opposition NA TIONAL TENNIS CENTRE (AMENDMENT) BILL

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to official merchandise which is being sold legally Secondly, many years ago the government promised by those who have contracted to hire the centre on a to return public parkland used in the particular day. construction --

I am aware of an example where nineteen "illegal" The ACfING SPEAKER (Mr Evans) - Order! hawkers were in the confines of the National Tennis The honourable member is stretching the rules of Centre during a concert by the modem pop group relevance a little by referring to statements made at Dire Straits. I can understand the logic behind the other times and in other places. He should return to need to control hawkers. In this modem world of the subject matter of the Bill. business, if one hires a venue to put on a function one obviously wants to control what is sold inside Mr REYNOLDS - The next point is the most the venue. That is a business fact of life the relevant, and that is what I am coming to. government overlooked, for which it stands condemned. I make this reference in passing: the government at the time proposed to return an equivalent area of The nineteen so-called illegal hawkers were evicted parkland used for the construction of the National from the centre only through the use of Melbourne Terulis Centre to public use by reclaiming other City Council by-laws because they did not have areas, particularly the old army barracks across the hawkers licences. The police were used to evict road; nothing has happened in seven years. them, and it was a messy and drawn-out method of control. As I said, the opposition does not oppose When the original Bill was debated, the opposition that part of the Bill dealing with hawkers. said that the financial arrangements under which the centre was constructed would not work; and it has The Bill also seeks to control unruly behaviour been proven correct. quickly and easily rather than having to use police. Some people make nuisances of themselves - for This Bill will enable the trust to make money it is example, demonstrators may go beyond the now not making. Maybe the new financial acceptable limit and some people post notices arrangements can return some funds towards around the building. It is necessary to have the making the centre pay for itself. power to remove those people. As every honourable member knows, the financial The Bill also provides protection for those people arrangements were that every cent of the money who pay to watch entertainment at the tennis centre needed for construction was borrowed. Interest rates from the loutish and unacceptable behaviour they subsequently escalated to some extent so that the sometimes have to endure. As one who has been to trust was forced to bear a larger financial burden for the tennis on a few occasions, I hope the centre will the centre than had been anticipated. As the have the power to eject those idiots who childishly operator, the trust runs the centre at a profit of about emulate the whistle that is emitted from the $5 million a year and has done so for the past three electronic eye on the service line. years. The interest payable on servicing the debt is approXimately an additional $17 million a year; The Bill provides me with the opportunity of setting therefore the centre loses around $11 million a year. the record straight on a number of claims that have been made about the opposition's attitude to the At the time of debate on the initial Bill the National Tennis Centre. I was the opposition opposition made those three points; they are still spokesperson on sport and recreation when the relevant today. It is wrong for the opposition to be National Tennis Centre Bill came before the House. accused of opposing the National Tennis Centre At no stage did the Liberal Party ever oppose the operations or of "bagging" the centre. construction of the centre. However, the opposition made three pOints about the centre, the first being By way of passing reference, the latest grants from the problems with car access, egress and parking to, the government are $12 million a year for twelve from and at the centre, and that is still the case. That years; that will cost Victoria $144 million. The problem will be exacerbated through the creation of govenunent and the centre would not be in the mess the Swans ton Street Walk - the mall you have they presently find themselves in had the without having a mall-because it will direct government at the time used its logic. further traffic toward the National Temlis Centre. NATIONAL TENNIS CENTRE (AMENDMENT) BILL

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An interesting aspect is that there are methods by the illegal trading in merchandise by a number of which hawkers may enter the centre and try to sell hawkers in the vicitlity of the centre. merchandise illegally in opposition to the hirer of the venue. I understand that recently one hawker at That was one issue that was not debated when the a function was actually wearing twelve T-shirts; he Bill was passed. The trust is responsible for the would sell one, rip it off his back and give it to the letting of contracts and the sale of souvenirs, purchaser, then sell the next one from his back. After T-shirts, caps and so on. The centre should be he had sold the twelve he would go outside, put on allowed to make a profit. The Bill will allow the another twelve T-shirts, return to the centre and centre to earn about $300000 in revenue a year, again sell them one by one. Some people show which will go towards helping the centre pay its amazing ingenuity to overcome the licence problem! way.

Mr Weideman -It's called free enterprise. From time to time legislation must be tightened. The National Party supports the Bill, and I wish it a Mr REYNOLDS - The honourable member is speedy passage. dead right. If the government and everyone else in Victoria would only show similar enterprise perhaps Mr WEIDEMAN (Frankston South) - The the State would not find itself in its present financial National Telmis Centre (Amendment) Bill is a small straits. Bill. The honourable members for Gisbome and Gippsland South have put their views on some of The opposition does not oppose the Bill but takes the the considerations in the Bill. It is a known fact in the opportwlity of commenting on certain matters commercial world of promotion and franchising that regarding the management of the centre; the Bill concerts and major sporting events, such as World invites such comment. I hope the MiIlister for Sport Cup cricket, provide opportUllities for the most and Recreation - the Chairman of the National extensive tobacco advertisements in the world. One Terulis Centre Trust - has declared a pecuniary would have to agree with that when watching the interest iI1 the Bill; although I am w1sure whether as cricket on television. Companies pay big money for chairman he receives any payment. the privilege of advertising their goods.

Several questions about the financing of the centre I am involved with the Victorian Health Promotion should be answered: during the final days of FOUl1dation, which is trying to put its message construction of the centre how much were some of across only to find that the tobacco industry is the tradesmen offered? Were they paid from other promoting its own wares. fW1ds-- Today one sees full-page advertisements, such as the The ACTING SPEAKER - Order! The one promoting the Benson and Hedges sponsorship honourable member is again straying substantially of the World Series Cup. That is what is happening from the subject matter of the Bill. I suggest he in the world of commerce, particularly in the media. return to the Bill. It is becoming increasingly difficult for companies and governments to promote events and products. Mr REYNOLDS - Finally, I see the Bill as necessary but I cannot understand why the Sporting events are one of the major avenues of government, with all its support and backing from advertisement. Coca Cola is a prime example. the Public Service and the knowledge it has acquired Recently in a major basket ball event the Coca Cola in running other venues, did not have this Bill before logo was blanked out from the chests of the players the House previously. and the other sponsors were mentioned. That is how skilled the media is in selling its wares and how Mr WALLACE (Gippsland South) - I support refined the art has become. One should be allowed the National Tennis Centre (Amendment) Bill. It is a to sell franchise goods at most of the large sporting small but necessary Bill. It strengthens the events, such as the veterans' games. regulation-making powers in the Act because endeavours to manage the centre efficiently have Those who run such events require a 10 per cent been frustrated by the limited regulations that apply. return for allowing the advertiser the right to The Bill allows the National Terulis Centre Trust to advertise the name of the event on a product. The recover some of its losses, which have resulted from Olympic Games franchise will recoup about $3 million to $4 million from the products sold. NA TIONAL TENNIS CENTRE (AMENDMENT) BILL

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The Department of Sport and Recreation informs us work and put in its own teams. Big trucks bring in that the National Temtis Centre will risk forfeiting the equipment and the management teams set up $300000 if the proposed legislation is not passed to the stage, the lighting, the instruments and control the selling of franchised and non-franchised everything else that is needed; another team is goods on the apron and in the environs of the employed to dismantle it all. National Telmis Centre. The result has been that two or three burgeoning I was involved with the SWl Tour at Treasury Place. businesses created by young people have been That is a public thoroughfare and permission had disadvantaged. They tried to establish themselves in been given by the department and the Premier to this area and have found that management has run that event. The foundation wanted to publish taken over the work without any explanation. one of its forthcoming events, the veterans' world games, on T-shirts and posters, but permission was The government is creating a monopoly, which may refused. Although the foundation had sponsored the be the best thing to do in the interests of the National Sun Tour it was not allowed to sell those items Tennis Centre. However, I point out that the down because the organisation that had sold the rights to side of creating such a monopoly is that people who the tour said that the foundation was contravening wish to use the place and cannot afford the the franchise agreement with the other vendors. thousands of dollars necessary to pay for the hire of it are being delued access to something built with If one wishes to promote country telUlis at the telUlis the Victorian taxpayer's money; access to and the centre it calUlot be done because it is not franchised. use of the centre is being limited.

Proposed new section 22 in clause 3 of the Bill states: As I said, the opposition will not oppose the Bill but I have raised one or two points for the consideration (1) The Governor in Council may make regulations for of the Minister. The Bill will result in the trust or with respect to - having powerful rights but will deny some rights to (a) the control, management and use of the Centre other Victorians. and the National TeMis Centre land; Obviously the biggest event conducted at the centre (b) the prohibition or regulation of any activity at is the Australian Teruus Open Championships. the centre or on the National TeMis Centre Consideration should be given to allowing junior land ... telulis competitions and other activities to be Money and the profit-making capacity of the centre conducted at the centre. As I said, access to the is at risk. When the tennis centre was proposed it centre should not be restricted merely for the sake of was argued that that there would be parking dollars. difficulties and that public land would be lost. Victoria has become the non-smoking capital of I received a complaint some years ago from people Australia. I congratulate the Minister, who is the who wished to conduct concerts at the centre. The chairman of the National Tennis Centre Trust, on the centre can seat 14 000 people for concerts by no-smoking signs that can be seen very clearly performers such as Neil Diamond, John Farnham throughout the stadium and the centre generally. I and Frank Sinatra. congratulate him also on the extent to which drinking is controlled. Staff are employed to ensure A large team of people is needed to put the stage that beverages are not taken into the stadium. into place for any important event that will attract a large crowd. That work is usually done by fit young Mr Richardson interjected. people who are students at the universities, colleges and other places and are glad of the opportwuty to Mr WEIDEMAN - My colleague to my left, the increase their income. They become part of a team, honourable member for Forest Hill, who is a smoker, working 24 or 48 hours straight over a weekend. A is somewhat disadvantaged when he goes to the year or so ago it was brought to my attention that centre in that he has to go outside if he wants to the yOWlg people who were wanting to do the work smoke. I do not think he minds doing that! were denied that right. They had been working for people who had contracts for setting up the stadium As I said, when I have attended the centre I have for concerts and other fWlCtions. The management of fowld it well organised and have been impressed the National TelUus Centre took over control of that particularly with the health promotions. I refer to NATIONAL TENNIS CENTRE (AMENDMENT) BILL

394 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992 the eisteddfod that is sponsored by the Victorian Trust as a whole. I refer to Mr Lindsay Thompson, a Health Promotion Foundation and is attended by former Premier of this State and finance chairman; some 14 000 secondary school students from 96 Mr Bill Dix, formerly president of Ford Motor schools around the State. I have found that the Company of Australia and now chairman of Qantas; no-smoking signs and other restrictions are Mike Fitzpatrick; Peter Ross-Edwards; and Frank respected by most people. Wilkes, among others, but especially to the instigator of the centre, John Cain. The team is pretty In conclusion, I reiterate that I have no problem with formidable. the Bill so long as those organisations that want to get messages across to the community are not Again, I thank the coalition parties for their denied that opportunity. They should be able to do cooperation on the Bill. so at no cost, to support what has become a Significant movement in Victoria: to make Victorians Motion agreed to. the healthiest people in Australia. Read second time. Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and Recreation) - I thank honourable members for their Committed. contributions to the debate, particularly the honourable members for Gisborne and Frankston Committee South. I suppose the Bill is to be seen as responding to needs that arise during spring cleaning. Some of Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to. the grey areas in the legislation have become problems. It is a little like what happens after a Clause 3 house is built: people sometimes find that a door or window is in the wrong place. Mr REYNOLDS (Gisborne) - I move: 1. Clause 3, after line 36 insert - The National Tennis Centre (Amendment) Bill will help the trust to run the centre more efficiently: So "(3) Regulations made under this section may be far as hawkers are concerned, there will no longer be disallowed in whole or in part by resolution of a reliance on the Melbourne City CowlCil and/or the either House of Parliament in accordance with Victoria Police to control their activities. the requirements of section 6(2) of the Subordinate Legislation Act 1962. Without being political, I believe all honourable (4) Disallowance under sub-section (3) is deemed to members would agree that the National Tennis be disallowance by Parliament for the Centre is a magnificent venue. It is the most purposes of the Subordinate Legislation Act 1962. profitable centre of its type in Australia. It is the only centre of its type that has been set up without any (5) Where, under sub-section (3), either House of government, council or public backing. Parliament disallows any regulation, no regulation, being the same in substance as the Mr Reynolds - But it will need backing now. regulation so disallowed, shall be made within 6 months after the date of the disallowance, Mr TREZISE - The Arts Centre, set up by a unless the House of the Parliament in which previous Liberal government, cost $270 million. Last notice of the motion to disallow the regulation year this government paid $70 million towards that was given by resolution approves the making debt. If it had not done so, the National Tennis of a regulation the same in substance as the Centre would have financial problems involving regulation deemed to have been disallowed. that same amount. (6) Any regulation made in contravention of sub-section (5) shall be void and of no effect.". All Victorians agree that the Arts Centre, the Melbourne Cricket Ground, and the National Tennis The amendment is the standard amendment usually Centre are great assets for this State, irrespective of moved by the opposition. governments. Mr Cooper - Always! As I said, the government appreciates the comments made by honourable members and will consider Mr REYNOLDS - I stand corrected: the them. I pay tribute to the National Tennis Centre amendment is always moved by the opposition in NATIONAL TENNIS CENTRE (AMENDMENT) BILL

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 395 recent times. It allows either House of Parliament to who sells goods and provides services on his disallow a regulation that might have been made for premises. That is part of his property right, and as a some ulterior motive. I am sad that the need exists to result he has a right to sell or franchise the right to move such an amendment. It is the result of this conduct sales within his area of business. govenunent's clandestine and underhand method of governing in the early years of its reign when the Of course, it may well be that, under ordinary law, govenunent sought to run the State by regulation, the trustees of the tennis centre have the same rights and not wlder the scrutiny of Parliament. As I said, within the structure and perhaps within the fenced this standard amendment is always moved by the area of the land allocated. Enforcement of those opposition. rights may be somewhat more difficult in the case of an operation like the telmis centre. On the other I make another point. Earlier I made great play of hand, it is inherently undesirable for the Parliament the fact that the Minister is Chairman of the National to establish a set of rights that create an effective Tennis Centre Trust. As we all know, the creation of monopoly and do not impose restraints upon the a regulation needs the declaration of the Governor in exercise of the monopoly power or provide a Council. It is put to him by the Minister and it is put remedy in the event of abuse of the monopoly to the Minister by some organisation. This makes the power. There is an issue of judgment here, not only Minister very powerful, especially as he is the as to the power but also as to how it is to be chairman of the trust and able to recommend the exercised. regulation to the government. As the honourable member for Gisborne pointed The only thing I can say to put a shining light on the out, it is a lamentable fact that the track record of the matter is that the Minister may not be the chairman present government does not inspire great for much longer because there will soon be a change confidence that those balances will be struck in the of government. interests of the Victorian community. The whole purpose of the amendment t.as far greater force in Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - I support the legislation of this kind than it has in many other amendment moved by the honourable member for cases, both because of the general desirability of the Gisborne. It is strongly required in legislation of this accowltability of the executive govenunent to kind. The essence of the Bill is to give a very broad Parliament through the mechanism provided and regulation-making power. Indeed, the stated because of its specific relevance to the circumstances purpose of conferring that regulation-making power at which the legislation is directed. indicates that the intention is to give a very wide discretionary power to those conducting the The opposition strongly supports the amendment. business of the National Tennis Centre to control not only what would normally be regarded as the Mr WEIDEMAN (Franks ton South) - I support confines of the centre but also the total of the area of the honourable members for Gisborne and Brighton. land allocated to the trust for the purposes of the My speech of some 15 minutes duration was based centre. on exactly the point the honourable member for Brighton made. I gave the examples of people trying That is not a purpose from which the opposition to get access to the monopoly and he gave the law of dissents, but there are involved here two issues that the monopoly situation. I gave the precise example make the amendment important to this Bill. First is of what has happened there and in other venues the accowltability that the amendment imposes on around Victoria over the past few years. the executive arm of govenunent to the Parliament, and it is an important part of the process of I can see a great change in the way promotions and enhancing the accountability of the executive to the franchises will be carried out in the future, how the Parliament. various aspects of the press and, in the future, satellite television will directly sell the use of Secondly, there is involved in this matter a collision promotions at major supporting events and how between property rights on the one hand and the people will wish to position themselves and be danger of monopoly and the abuse of monopoly excluded from doing so if it is not regulated. power on the other hand. If the telUlis centre were conducted by a private business, clearly the ordinary The amendment will enable the executive to report laws of the land would entitle the proprietor, as a back to the Parliament and examine any regulation matter of recognising his property rights, to control which will deter anybody from what I see as his LIBRARIES (AMENDMENT) BILL

396 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992 right. I am interested in the health area. This will opposition now has the numbers in the Legislative allow us to do what is necessary to promote health Council and there is accountability through in this State, contrary to those who prevent us from amendments to particular pieces of legislation, doing it. which have been forced through the Upper House, have we been able to protect the community. Clearly this amendment should be accepted by the government in order to allow the Parliament to On the basis of experience of the way the decide where these digressions may take place and government operates the opposition knows the prevent people from creating a monopoly situation amendment that has been moved by the honourable which could go beyond the point of not being in the member for Gisborne is absolutely necessary. As best interests of Victorians. I support this such, it deserves the support of the House. amendment. It is important for honourable members to reflect Mr COOPER (Momington) - The proposed upon a recent debate that took place in Parliament regulatory powers under clause 3 of the Bill are, as concerning the autonomy of the Parliament and the the honourable member for Brighton said, accountability of the executive to the Parliament. extraordinarily wide, and that must give concem to This is an ongoing debate in this House, and one all the Committee and to honourable members in honourable members should reflect upon. It is no another place because of the experience we have all good having lengthy debates about the Parliament had of the way this govemment has handled its being able to control the executive and then having regulatory powers under other pieces of legislation. legislation brought forward by the very government that is promoting the debate that simply avoids the On several occasions I have had the onerous full accountability of the executive to the Parliament. responsibility of having to deal with regulations brought in by the govemment. They were clearly The amendment will ensure that the executive is draconian and needed to be amended or thrown out. made accow1table to Parliament, which should be Under the normal proviSiOns, that is extremely supported by members on both sides of the House. difficult when one has a govemment that has If the government fails to support the amendment its brought in the regulations itself and is not willing to statements during the debate on the reform of see a disallowance clause passed through both Parliament will be seen as hypocritical. Houses of the Parliament as is normally required. Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and The amendment enables regulations that are Recreation) - I appreciate the remarks that have brought in by the govemment to be disallowed by been made, and I am in accord with the amendment. either House of Parliament. Of course, when both the opposition parties have control of the Legislative Amendment agreed to; amended clause agreed to. Council, as is the situation in Victoria, that makes our obligation to the community one that can be met Reported to House with amendment. with regard to draconian regulations that can be imposed by the govemment. Passed remaining stages.

It is not as if we are talking about theory; we are LIBRARIES (AMENDMENT) BILL talking about practice. On many occasions we have seen regulations that are detrimental to and Second reading diScriminatory against the general community. Because regulations are not debated in the House Order of the Day read for resumption of debate. but are brought in by the govemment of the day, the people in the general commwlity suddenly find The SPEAKER - Order! As the required themselves affected by a piece of draconian or statement of intention has been made pursuant to discrimina tory regula tion and they tum to their section 85(5)(c) of the Constitution Act 1975, I am of elected members to find out what can be done about the opinion that the second-reading of this Bill it. That has happened in this State. If the opposition requires to be passed by an absolute majority. did not control the numbers in the Legislative Council the government would be able to ride Mr RICHARD SON (Forest Hill) - Because there roughshod over the community. It has set out on is no MiIlister present, I shall move that the debate that course on many occasions. Only because the be adjourned. LIBRARIES (AMENDMENT) BILL

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 397

The SPEAKER - Order! A Minister is present. Hirsh, Mrs Spyker, Mr He may not be in his usual seat, but he is present. Jol\y,Mr Thomson,Mr Does the honourable member for Forest Hill wish to Kennan, Mr Trezise, Mr proceed with the debate or does he wish to move the Kennedy, Mr Vaughan, Or motion? Kimer,Ms Walsh,Mr Leighton, Mr Wilson,Mrs Mr RICHARDSON - I move: McCutcheon, Mr

That the debate be adjourned. Motion negatived.

The SPEAKER - Order! I declare the motion lost. Debate resumed from 26 November 1991; motion of Mr ROPER (then Treasurer). Mr RICHARDSON - The Ayes have it, and a division is required. Mr RICHARDSON (Forest Hill) - The House has just wiblessed another disgraceful episode, House divided on motion: something that is becoming part of the practice of the govemment. No Minister was present to take Ayes, 38 charge of the Bill. The only member of the Austin,Mr Lieberman, Mr govemment present was the disgraced former Bildstien, Mr (Teller) McGrath, Mr J.F. Premier, the honourable member for Bundoora. It Brown, Mr McGrath, Mr W.O. was perfectly appropriate that I should move, in C1ark, Mr McNamara, Mr those circumstances, that the debate be adjourned. Coleman,Mr Maclellan, Mr Cooper,Mr Maughan, Mr (Teller) This is the second time this has occurred during this Delzoppo, Mr Napthine, Dr sessional period. The Deputy Premier was the Elder, Mr Perrin, Mr Minister involved in both cases and he has brought Evans, Mr Pescott, Mr disgrace and discredit on the House. Gude, Mr Plowman, Mr Hayward, Mr Reynolds, Mr The govemment is treating this place with contempt Heffeman, Mr Richardson, Mr and this only a week after the Premier made a Honeywood, Mr Smith, Mr E.R. passionate plea in her Ministerial statement for Jasper, Mr Steggall, Mr reform of Parliament so that honourable members John, Mr Tanner, Mr could show greater respect for the institution. The Kennett, Mr Wade,Mrs day after that Ministerial statement the Deputy Kilgour, Mr Wallace, Mr Premier behaved disgracefully and has done so Lea, Mr Weideman, Mr again today. Leigh,Mr Wells, Dr Mr Speaker, you would have observed during the sittings of the House that the government benches Noes, 45 are nearly always deserted. The government rarely Andrianopoulos, Mr McDonald, Mr has the appropriate Minister available and present Baker, Mr Mathews, Mr in the Chamber when Bills are called on that are the Barker, Mrs Micallef, Mr responsibility of that Minister. Batchelor, Mr (Teller) Norris, Mr Cain, Mr Pope, Mr Last week's Ministerial statement by the Co le, Mr (Teller) Ray, Mrs Premier-- Crabb, Mr Roper,Mr Cunningham, Mr Rowe,Mr The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable DolIis, Mr Sandon, Mr member should not anticipate debate on Order of Emst,Mr Seitz, Mr the Day No. 9 and should turn his attention to the Fordham, Mr Sercombe, Mr Bill. Garbutt, Mrs Setches, Mrs Gavin, Mr Sheehan, Mr A.J. Mr RICHARDSON - The Ministerial statement Hamilton, Mr Sheehan, Mr F.P. by the Premier had a hollow ring about it and adds Harrowfield, Mr Shell, Mr further to the stench of defeat surrounding the HiII,Mrs Simmonds, Mr govemment. LIBRARIES (AMENDMEN'f.) BILL

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The Libraries (Amendment) Bill will transfer the Barry, later Sir Redmond Barry, instigated the museum land from the COWlcil of the Museum of creation of a public library. Indeed he created a Victoria to the COWlcil of the State Library of private library. He had an extensive collection which Victoria. It will make a number of consequential he made available to the public. Frequently visitors amendments which must be made to the Museums would call simply for the purpose of referring to the Act and the Libraries Act concerning the extensive collection held in his home in Russell reappointment of the COWlcil of the Museum of Street. Victoria and the COWlcil of the State Library of Victoria. The cOWlcil of the museum is required to Regardless of who actually initiated the idea that we make by-laws and there are some minor should have a public library, we owe a great debt to miscellaneous amendments. a number of prominent citizens of the time. Even if Mr Justice Barry did not initiate the idea, he took The changes have been brought about by the charge of the project once it was put in place. He planned removal of the Museum of Victoria from was the chairman of the trustees from 1856 Wltil he the site that it has shared with the State Library of died. Victoria for more than 100 years to a new site on Southbank. The first sod has been turned by the In response to the interest shown in establishing a Premier and I Wlderstand she will open the next public library, Governor Latrobe placed upon the phase of the building program on Friday. It is Estimates a sum of 13 000 pOWlds for the erection of necessary at this stage for the government to put in a building and the purchase of books. This amoWlt place some administrative arrangements that will was included in the Appropriation Act, which was accommodate the eventual removal of the museum assented to on 20 January 1853. from the building that it presently shares with the State Library and which, in years gone by, was By proclamation in the Government Gazette in July shared by the National Gallery of Victoria, the the same year, His Excellency appointed the first five National Gallery school and the Archives, some of trustees of the public library, who were prominent which were moved to Laverton, leaving the Latrobe citizens: Mr Justice Barry, the Honourable William collection. Foster Stawell, and the Honourable James Frederick Palmer, Hugh Culling Eardley Childers and David The State Library of Victoria is an historic institution; Charteris McArthur. Mr Justice Barry became the one of the products of the gold rush and the rapid first senior trustee and acted generally as head of the development of the colony in the 1850s. It is the board. He was recognised as head of the institution product of vision and a belief in the common man and according to Mr Armstrong: and the need for the advancement of the common man held by the early leaders of the colony. He worked zealously, judicially and indefatigably for its advancement during the whole of his life. There is some dispute as to who thought of the idea of establishing a public library. I had always The trustees made their first purchase by remitting believed Sir Redmond Barry was the father of the 2500 pow1ds to London for the purchase of books. library, but when one does some reading on the They asked prominent colonists, then in England, to subject, one realises that the govemor of the day, cooperate with the Colonial Agent in securing the Govemor La Trobe, was very important. He was nucleus of a collection of works for the public also a man of great vision, literary and artistic talent. library. On 16 January 1854 a prize was awarded to He was described in a publication, The Book of the Mr Joseph Reed for the plans and designs for a new Public Library, Museums and National Gallery of building. Victoria written by Edmw1d La Touche Armstrong, MA, LLB, the chief librarian in 1906. Mr Armstrong At that point some difficulty occurred in connection wrote in his history of the library from 1856 to 1906 with the money voted for the building, because in that Govemor La Trobe was a man of some literary March a deputation of trustees waited upon the taste and one to whom the establishment of a public Governor and inquired whether a sum of 10 000 library would appeal strongly. pOWlds, voted in 1853, could be placed at the disposal of the board. His Excellency replied that no Mr Hugh Culling Eardley Childers, a member of the fWlds were available. That was the first of many govemment of the yOWlg colony and prominent responses of that kind from successive governments. citizen, claimed to have suggested the idea to We now find, in 1992, that the present government is Govemor La Trobe. We also know that Mr Justice making exactly the same response to appeals for LIBRARIES (AMENDMENT) BILL

Wednesday. 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 399 ftmds for the State Library. The response was then the Acting Governor of Victoria. That is the consistently made is: no fW1ds are available for the history of the library, which is most important. I purpose. now move to the position confronting the current government. In July 1854 a tender worth 9650 pow1ds was awarded to Mr Metcalfe for the building of the first I refer the House to a remark made by the Minister portion of the library building and arrangements for the Arts when he presented his second-reading were made to proceed. On Monday 3 July 1854 the speech on this matter. He made this observation in foundation stones for both the University of the first paragraph: Melbourne and the Public Library were laid by Governor Charles Hotham. Mr Justice Barry Under previous administrations, the State's premier featured prominently in both the establishment of library and museum, located at the historic complex of the university and the public library. He was buildings in Swanston Street, declined to such an extent chairman of trustees of the Public Library of Victoria that large parts of our documentary and material and he was also Chancellor of the University of heritage are now endangered. Melbourne. He had already become the most important intellectual leader in the colony. Later he Since we are now into the tenth year of successive was to become a leading jurist and he was knighted Labor governments in Victoria it is clear that the for his services to the colony. Minister for the Arts was attacking the previous government led by the previous Premier who was Before the laying of the fow1dation stone for the forced out in disgrace as well as having a swipe at Public Library, Mr Palmer, the President of the previous non-Labor governments. We should look at Legislative Council, delivered a long address. He the neglect that occurred in the years since 1982 afterwards spoke at length on the advantages of a when the Labor Party came to power in this State. public library especially on what he termed a working man's library. Mr Palmer says: I took up with great interest the remarks of the Minister for the Arts when he referred to the decline I tell you as your friend and fellow colonist that here of the library and made reference to the effect on the you will find society that will draw you away from collection. One must presume that he is referring to other temptations, and I hope that the library will a decline caused by the inadequacy of the resources contain books of all languages and descriptions, so that provided to the library, so I went to the you may never say you are at a loss for references or Parliamentary Library to inquire about financial information on any subject. details relating to the State Library of Victoria for the financial years 1981-82 until 1991-92. During his address at the laying of the w1iversity foundation stone, Chancellor Barry pointed out that What I asked for was information which showed the only seventeen years had elapsed since the Budget allocation for the State Library and the actual fow1dation of the colony, which was then in11abited expenditure on the State Library for each of those only by savages. Mr Armstrong then wrote: financial years. It was extraordinary that no-one was able to provide that information. We all know that Probably in the world's history no country had Budget documents are designed to conceal rather attempted to found both a university and a public than reveal. One would have thought that library within a score of years of its first settlement. somewhere beneath the weight of figures, confusion and dissemblance that characterised the Budget Indeed one must concur that it was a brilliant Papers there would have been a method whereby achievement. It showed the confidence as well as the the department concerned would be able to identify vision of those early colonists. It also showed the the financial details. great wealth that had been generated by the gold rushes. Furthermore it showed the importance of the I received a most extraordinary report from the Irish influence that can be seen in the names of so library officer concerned with my request, and I many of those early prominent citizens. One of the shall read it to the House: most prominent of those Irish immigrants to the colony was Redmond Barry. Exact figures of Budget allocations to the State Library of Victoria are not available. This fact has been On Monday 11 February 1856 the library was confirmed by the Ministry for the Arts (Finance formally opened by Major-General McArthur who Section). I have contacted the State Library requesting LIBRARIES (AMENDMENT) BILL

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this information but they have not gotten back to me does not care. You are an arrogant, silly, little man yet. and you are incompetent!

Here are figures for allocations to ALL library services. Mr KENNAN (Minister for the Arts) - On a Figures highlighted are the only ones which are point of order, the honourable member should indicated in the Budget Papers as being for the "State withdraw. Library". The SPEAKER - Order! The Minister for the So the Parliamentary Library was not able to Arts has asked the honourable member for Forest establish precise figures in relation to the financial Hill to withdraw remarks to which he objected. allocations to the State Library. The extraordinary thing is that, when the Parliamentary Library Mr RICHARD SON (Forest Hill) - I withdraw. It contacted the Minister's own department, it did not is a sad commentary on what one has to do to gain know either. The department suggested that the the attention of this Minister. However, I shall Parliamentary Library might contact the State examine the figures that I have been able to obtain in Library and see if anyone there knew the precise response to the Minister's claim about the neglect of figures for allocations to the library. previous governments.

Yesterday afternoon the library replied that it was The only figures I have before me are the figures not able to provide precise figures. It sent some relating to the neglect that was shown by the copies of the annual reports of the Council of the previous Cain government. I have not gone beyond State Library but only reports from those years that but I am sure that if the Minister is interested he where there were some details provided. I have the will be able to see whether his department could annual reports for each year since 1981 and it is a track down those figures for earlier years. Since I fact that in only some of those annual reports are have not been able to do it for the past ten years I financial details given. presume figures are not available for an earlier period. I noticed that as I made this revelation about the incapacity of the Ministry for the Arts to provide The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable information on how much had been allocated to the member has been given considerable latitude in his State Library, the Minister for the Arts, as is usual, speech. I direct his attention to the fact that this is a was paying no attention to what was being said and narrow Bill dealing with a narrow range of matters was showing no interest in the deficiencies of his to which his remarks do not seem to relate. I ask him department. to relate his remarks to the Bill before the House.

Wake up, Minister! Are you not interested in the Mr RICHARDSON -1 do so, Mr Speaker, and I deficiency being shown by your department? direct your attention to the first paragraph of the Minister's second-reading speech, the second The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable sentence of which states: member should address the Chair. Under previous administrations, the State's premier Mr RICHARDSON - I shall say it again and I library and museum, located at the historic complex of shall direct my remarks through you, Mr Speaker. buildings in Swanston Street, declined to such an extent The Minister for the Arts is showing no interest that large parts of our documentary and material whatever in the fact that his own department was heritage are now endangered. wlable to provide any information on the financial allocations to the State Library of Victoria and was At the very begimung of his speech on the Bill he so incompetent that it suggested that the was introducing, the Minister was concentrating his Parliamentary Library should contact the State attention on the importance of the allocation of Library. resources and the effect of the allocation or under allocation of resources on the material contained The State Library was not able to provide that within the library. It is for that reason I have been precise information. Is the Minister not interested in concentrating on the matter of financial resources. the incapacity of his own department to provide that information? It just does not know and this Minister The Bill is also fundamentally concerned with the provision of physical facilities. The whole purpose of LIBRARIES (AMENDMENT) BILL

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 401 the exercise is to enable the museum to relocate out Victorian scheme was completed for the Stllte Library of tha t building and the library to take over the of NSW at a cost of $45 million in 1988 to meet "the vacated space. If I am not to be permitted to make challenges of the coming century". reference to the full figures that relate to allocations, I am satisfied I have made my point that the That is a commentary on the proposition put up by situation is so outrageous that the Minister's own the govemment. The criticisms that flowed from the department cannot provide the information, and I State Library Development Council report are shall let it all rest there. serious and substantial. They relate particularly to the intention of the govemment to use the vacated If the Minister were interested in the portfolio for space and the new storage facilities that are being which he is temporarily responsible, he might be established on the site. The report states: prepared to get some answers for himself. It is useful to observe the remarks that have been made The budget is inadequate and "those parts (of the in newspapers from time to time on the-new library) which are worthy of conservation are not to be arrangements and the building program that is in properly restored". place. In an article in the Age of 20 January 1990 the State Library Development Cowlcil said: Proposed new buildings, including four glass-roofed ones around the library dome, are uneconomic and will The government is treating the library as a joke, and the frustrate future expansion. redevelopment is no more than the most superficial patch-up of a warren of obsolescent and deteriorating Maintenance problems such as leakage, which is structures ... nullifying conservative efforts, are not addressed by the plan. There is concern among many library users that the (Arts Ministry) does not give the library its proper Valuable items continue to be "lost, damaged or recognition and is not geared to handling an institution destroyed". of this type. The Ministry appears to be hostile to library interests ... Serious understaffing has led to a cut in the hours of opening, lack of speciali~ation and delays of up to 50 A letter from Axel Lodewycks was published in the minutes for users seeking items. Even then, items are Herald of 6 April 1990. I knew Axel Lodewycks very often unavailable, because they are "in use or missing". well when he was the Chief Librarian at the Baillieu Library at the University of Melboume; he was a Government restructuring of management, including man of great intellectual and professional filling four of the library's top five positions with distinction. Mr Lodewycks says non-librarians, has undermined the position of State Librarian. The Victorian government's "redevelopment" of the State Library sees the library only as a virtual caretaker I agree completely with that. I have known the past of the exhibition galleries to be discarded by the few State Librarians very well; several of them have Museum of Victoria. been close friends of mine. In the main they have been treated shabbily by this govemment. An article Despite the efforts of a top-flight architect to adapt in the Age of 1 October states: these inflexible structures to the library's purposes, there are at least 30 major planning defects which will The development council report comes after recent compound in perpetuity all the accommodation basement floodings at the library that damaged problems experienced by the library in the domed $100000 worth of rare books, some dating from the building for the past 75 years. The library is distinctly sixteenth century, and a fire in July that threatened better off in its present situation, however hopeless that library and museum exhibits valued at $200 million ... situation may be. The decline of the library's status has been The government scheme, estimated to cost at least $115 compounded by a book vote ... lower than all million, cannot achieve even a short-term solution of comparable libraries - the library's present problems. The vote generally was about one-quarter -- An eminently practical, new and functional building to provide two and a half times the capacity of the LIBRARIES (AMENDMENT) BILL

402 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992

The SPEAKER - Order! I am having some to pass through Parliament. Therefore, the difficulty relating the honourable member's remarks opposition will support the Bill. to the question before the Chair. Mr KENNAN (Minister for the Arts) - I thank Mr RICHARDSON - I will just complete the the honourable member for Forest Hill for his and sentence. The article states: his party's support for the Bill. It is notable that apart from personal invective the honourable The library's 1988-89 vote of $1.02 million was a quarter member's speech was really entirely devoted to of that for the University of Melbourne library two questions of funding for the State Library. Of course years ago. it is this government that is undertaking the massive refurbishment of the library over a period of years in So much for the sniping criticism of the Minister for the 1990s, which, together with moneys already the Arts who just cannot resist being a smart alec. spent, amounts to some $180 million, as well as the new museum on the Southbank and the science Mr KENNAN (Minister for the Arts) - On a museum at Spotswood. point of order, Mr Speaker, I ask that that remark be withdrawn. It was also notable that the honourable member made absolutely no commitment on behalf of the The SPEAKER - Order! The Minister has taken opposition to supporting that program and it is exception to the remark of the honourable member especially notable that it was only yesterday or the for Forest Hill. I ask whether he is prepared to day before that the honourable member for withdraw. Brighton, the shadow Treasurer, said that should the Liberal Party be elected to office in this State it Mr RICHARD SON (Forest Hill) - I will always would slash capital works. withdraw a remark the Minister finds offensive. I am gaining a new insight into the sensitivity of this It is therefore apparent from that statement, taken Minister. I now recognise he is a more delicate together with the total absence of commitment in the flower than I imagined and I will have to temper my comments of the honourable member for Forest Hill remarks so that his sensitivity will not be threatened today, that the massive refurbishment of the library in any way. that this govenunent is undertaking is at very serious risk from the opposition. Despite all the The reality is that the Minister's second-reading invective that he could summon, the honourable speech simply does not stand up to scrutiny. The member was unable to give any concrete assurance opposition supports the purpose of the Bill. It is to the public in support of the massive capital works necessary for a Bill of this kind to be passed so that program the government has undertaken. the arrangements that are being made at present to enable the Museum of Victoria to vacate the It will be necessary to go into Committee on this Bill building can proceed smoothly. because the government wishes to make two small amendments. The opposition expresses serious doubts whether the government will be able to meet its obligations to The SPEAKER - Order! As the required fund the museum project. It also has serious statement of intention has been made pursuant to reservations whether the government will be able to section 85(5)(c) of the Constitution Act 1975, I am of meet its funding obligations to the State Library. On the opinion that the second reading of this Bill the evidence before it so far the opposition has good requires to be passed by an absolute majority. As reason to be concerned about the reliability of there are fewer than 45 members present in the ongoing funding because the govenunent has Chamber, I ask the Clerk to ring the bells. proven it is prepared to break all its other promises. Bells rung. With some trepidation, in looking to the future, the opposition fears the government will not be able to Required number of members having assembled proceed with the programs that it has announced for in Chamber: both the State Library and the Museum of Victoria. However, the opposition agrees with the Motion agreed to by absolute majority. propositions in the Bill. If the government is to find the money and proceed, it is necessary for such a Bill Read second time. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 403

Committed. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Committee Priority Victoria - A statement on jobs

Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to. The SPEAKER - Order! I advise the House that I have approved requests for the Australian and Age Clause 5 newspapers to take still photographs of the debate on the Premier's Ministerial statement today. No Mr KENNAN (Minister for the Arts) - I move: additional lighting or flashlights will be used.

1. Clause 5, line 32, after "}988" insert" - (a)". Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - On a point of 2. Clause 5, after line 33 insert- order, Mr Speaker, I understand that the statement is contained in two documents. One is a document of "(b) after paragraph (b) insert- 58 pages and the other is a speech. I am sorry, I had ";and asked an attendant whether we were getting both documents and he said he understood we were (c) the care, protection and management of land getting only one. and buildings or parts of buildings owned or under the management or control of the The SPEAKER - Order! Copies of both Council, and the safeguarding of the contents documents are being made available to honourable of those buildings against theft or damage; and members. (d) the preservation of good order and decency on land and in buildings or parts of buildings Ms KIRNER (Premier) - I wish to make a owned or under the management or control of Ministerial statement on jobs and investment. the CounciL ... ". Victoria is a rich State: rich in assets and rich in The first amendment is a drafting amendment to people. insert "(a)" so we can insert paragraph (b), and the purpose of the second amendment, which inserts Building on that base with commitment and paragraph (b), is to widen the powers for the confidence in ourselves there is no limit to what making of by-laws. Victoria can achieve. Mr RICHARDSON (Forest Hill) - The It is time for everyone in Victoria to share one goal, opposition has no objection to these amendments. one priority. Amendments agreed to; amended clause agreed to; My govemment's priority is to make our economy, clauses 6 to 11 agreed to. our State and our way of life equal to the best in the world. That is what drives this govemment. Reported to House with amendments. Priority Victoria is another step to achieving Report adopted. economic recovery. It is another step to building a stronger future for young Victorians. It is another Third reading step to making our economy the equal of the best in the world. The SPEAKER - Order! As the required statement of intention has been made pursuant to The government is not offering a quick fix to the section 8S(S)(c) of the Constitution Act 1975, I am of recession. It will require consistent effort to beat this the opinion that the third reading of this Bill requires recession and emerge as a stronger, healthier to be passed by an absolute majority. economy. Motion agreed to by absolute majority. We started that process with my June economic statement last year and implemented the first stage Read third time. of that three-year plan in the 1991-92 Victorian Budget. Sitting suspended 12.59 p.m. unti12.3 p.m. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

404 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992

Undoubtedly the most significant achievement of In the short term, there has been a contraction in the past six months was the securing of a change in State revenue. However, the Treasurer has indicated economic policy from the Federal government. that the 1991-92 financing transaction against the Budget Estimates will be within 1 per cent of total We knew we had to win the argument that Federal outlays. government action was needed to boost recovery and ensure long-term prospects. We achieved that The Victorian Government remains committed to policy change for Victoria. Now is the time to turn the three year Budget planning projections outlined that policy change into recovery and jobs. in the June economic statement and updated in the 1991-92 Budget Papers. The 1992-93 Budget is being Priority Victoria is the next step. framed within these targets.

Priority Victoria builds on the Prime Minister's One INVESTING IN VICTORIA'S FUTURE Nation package. Governments have a responsibility to provide Priority Victoria sets out a plan of action to create essential economic and social infrastructure - the jobs now. Priority Victoria pays special attention to fabric that links people and industry and provides meeting the needs of and providing opportunities the basis for economic and individual development. for young people. As the Prime Minister made clear in his One Na tion Priority Victoria strengthens our economy and statement, the provision of infrastructure serves the means we will be better placed to compete for jobs dual purpose of stimulating employment and in world markets. improving economic efficiency.

Priority Victoria builds and develops partnerships Today, I am announcing a package of infrastructure for Victoria's future. investments in Victoria's future that will add to and complement the initiatives outlined by the Prime Priority Victoria is an opportunity for the Minister last month. government, business, unions, the community and the opposition to make Victoria their priority. Melbourne: Australia's transport hub

Our State has great strengths: as Australia's main My government and the Committee for Melbourne manufacturing State and as a corporate put forward visionary proposals prior to the One headquarters and financial centre, we lead the Nation statement aimed at developing Melbourne as country in research, development and training; we the nation's transport hub. have tremendous natural resources and attractions; and we have an extremely productive rural sector. The Prime Minister's statement endorsed and gave life to that concept with the announcement of Priority Victoria builds on those strengths. significant funding for major rail, road, and aviation transport infrastructure. The initiatives I am announcing today represent a responsible and balanced package to assist recovery. Further, the Federal Government created the conditions through tax and other measures to The expenditure initiatives total $30.4 million in encourage private sector investment in public 1991-92 and $132 million in 1992-93, and they will infrastructure - particularly major road unlock, most importantly, many millions of dollars construction. I will turn to opportunities for the of private sector investment, and will ensure the private sector in a moment. target of 80 000 new jobs by the middle of next year is met. Priority Victoria will extend the Federal initiatives. hl the process, we will improve Victoria's Priority Victoria refocuses the existing capital works international competitiveness and create jobs this program to maximise economic activity and ca lender year. employment growth. Due to slower than expected expenditure on works in 1991-92, the cost of this To ensure we create jobs now, I have assigned David package will be met within the Works and Services White, Minister for Manufacturing and Industry Budget estimate. Development, to take overall responsibility for MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 405 driving the implementation of the transport hub the Federal government makes an early decisio?1 initiatives. on designated international routes for the domestic airlines; An efficient rail network the sale of Australian Airlines enhances and does not diminish the establishment of a second Priority Victoria will supplement the $80 million international carrier based in Melbourne; and allocated to the Melbourne-Adelaide rail negotiations for bilateral landing rights are standardisation with an additional $50 million over conducted in the national interest not the interests the next two financial years. This will allow the solely of Qantas. entire main line and associated freight and passenger links to be integrated. This action will be complemented by action to Upgrading the rail corridor between Melbourne and ensure Victoria has an international airport that Sydney, the rail freight terminal at South Dynon and serves the interests of this State and acts as a catalyst constructing a road link to the docks will result in for business and tourism. Federal spending of $60 million. One Nation has committed the Federal Airports Upgrading our road system Corporation (FAC) to accelerate redevelopment of the international terminal at Tullamarine and The One Nation package has allocated $130 million provide new common user facilities. over two years to accelerate the Western ring road, the Hume, Goulburn, Western, Princes and Calder I can announce today that my government has highways, the Springvale bypass and the reached agreement in principle with the Federal Portarlington-Geelong Road. Minister responsible for aviation, Senator Bob Collins, on the establishment of a new Airport Priority Victoria will commit a further $6 million to Development Committee for Tullamarine. the Springvale bypass over the next two years. Members of the Airport Development Committee Federal Govenunent expenditure of $15.9 million on will be appointed by Senator Collins after metropolitan ''blackspots'' over two years will be consultation with the Victorian government and will enhanced by State expenditure of $29 million on comprise FAC board members and prominent road upgrading and rehabilitation by the end of Melbourne business and community leaders, and, I 1993-94. might say, as requested by the Committee of Melbourne. The Ringwood bypass will be accelera ted with Sta te expenditure of $8 million over the next two years. The first task of the development committee will be to review current development plans for the existing In total, State expenditure on transport international terminal building - stages 1, 2 and 3 infrastructure before June 1993 will be an additional - to ensure they meet Victoria's needs for a world $55 million which builds upon Commonwealth standard airport. initiatives of over $135 million before June 1993. The total jobs impact will be 13 300. The executive of the development committee will meet on a regular basis with the Melbourne Airport An airport that serves the State manager.

One Nation foreshadowed major changes and, I The committee will develop with the FAC and the might say, welcome and overdue ones, to the State government a study on the potential for aviation industry and in particular established the developing new commercial opportunities at setting for an international airline based, at last, in Melbourne Airport as outlined in Australian Aviation Melbourne. - Towards the 21st Century.

Priority Victoria will ensure that: Health services for all Victorians

The government has identified key capital works projects in the health area for accelerated development. These projects will create jobs and MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

406 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992 underpin structural change to improve and relocate This program will address critical minor works services. needed in schools and provide an estimated 320 jobs for trades people in the building sector and The projects will involve expenditure of associated industries. $26.2 million in the period to June 1993, with additional expenditure in subsequent years. The Preserving Victoria's heritage total jobs created will be 2700. Priority Victoria will add $2.2 million over the next Priority Victoria will accelerate redevelopment of the two years to the $5.1 million provided in the One Royal Melboume Hospital, one of Melbourne's great Nation package for restoration of heritage buildings. hospitals, replacing obsolete buildings and improving efficiency and patient care. Projects to begin almost immediately are restoration of two of our most historic buildings, the Old We will relocate nursing home beds from Mount Treasury building and Trades Hall. Royal and Greenvale to community nursing homes and achieve a more appropriate, efficient, integrated Honourable members interjecting. and accessible nursing home service for older people. Ms KIRNER - I hope opposition members show Additionally, Priority Victoria allocates fWlds for the same excitement about the next project which, if work on the Bendigo Base Hospital and Geelong it does not have bipartisan support from members of Hospital birthing wlit. the opposition, certainly does from the women of the Liberal Party outside this House: $80 000 will be Better water management allocated to develop a plan to refurbish a tower of the former Queen Victoria hospital as a centre for The financial performance and efficiency of the women. Victorian water industry has a major influence on the cost of services to agriculture, industry, domestic A final list will be decided after consultation with housing and commerce vital to growth and the Commonwealth, the National Trust and the development. Historic Buildings Council.

Priority Victoria will accelerate micro-economic WORKING WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR reform and assist local economies by financing a number of strategic high priority projects. Sustainable economic recovery in Victoria depends on a successful partnership between government, Projects to be financially assisted include: the private sector, the wuon movement and the commwuty. My government has and will continue to develop those partnerships. the Wimmera-Mallee pipeline to improve the existing system, to increase water use efficiency Priority Victoria continues our encouragement to the and ensure adequate water supply; private sector to invest by opening up opportunities sewering of Marlo, Lake Tyers, Marysville, in public infrastructure projects and by lowering the Maiden Gully and Macarthur Township. costs to business. The private sector also looks to government for intervention in the economy, where that is appropriate, to assist restructuring and The total cost to govemment over three years will be encourage investment. $5.4 million in terms of debt forgiveness and cash grants. The total value of the projects will be Priority Victoria will continue to work with the $24 million and 600 jobs will be created in rural private sector to generate investment and jobs while Victoria. ensuring a solid industry base is fostered for the future. Upgrading our schools Private investment in Victoria's future Schools will also benefit from an $8 million program of maintenance, minor upgrades and oil-to-gas Giving Victoria priority demands that we encourage conversion throughout the State. the private sector to share in the proviSion of important infrastructure to improve the efficiency of MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 407 our economy and expand job opportunities in the scheme, the government assistance was matched by construction industry. at least one major private builder effectively reducing the cost of a new home by about In May 1991 the government outlined its cooperative 10 per cent. The government will extend the scheme approach to infrastructure development and with a further $5 million allocation. published guidelines for private investment in public infrastructure. Since then some $100 million In parhlership with the industry, we also intend to of private investment in infrastructure has been create opportunities for mediwn density housing commenced. The total commitment on these projects construction. The accelerated mediwn density when fully implemented is some $400 million. housing program will make available publicly owned sites, facilitate development approvals and Today I can announce that of the seventeen projects offer these packages for joint ventures with the for which the government has sought expressions of private sector. The use of those sites for mediwn interest, nine have advanced to the "de.tailed offer" density housing will make better use of existing stage. infrastructure, create new jobs and demonstrate the efficiency and affordability of this form of housing. Over the next six months contracts will be signed and construction commenced or accelerated on An initial six govenunent-owned sites have been private sector projects worth $580 million including: identified for release in the next few months, yielding about 254 houses or $28.7 million worth of building activity and 1100 jobs. Further sites are in An additional $100 million under the accelerated the process of being identified and they will yield infrastructure program; more than 700 houses and 2800 jobs during 1993. apprOximately $170 million in capital works for the Alfred, St Vincents and Werribee hospitals; The government will spend $12 million on a further $200 million for work on the museum upgrading public housing stock, spot purchases of and Magistrates Court; and public housing and expanding the Share Home an acceleration of water and sewerage works in Ownership scheme. the order of $80 million. Priority Victoria will utilise $5 million of Treasury fWlds made available by the early retirement of debt Those projects will create 17000 jobs. by the Geelong Regional Commission to construct 50 houses in the Geelong region, creating nearly The One Nation statement will lead to further 200 jobs. interest in private sector development as a result of the new depreciation provisions and the Helping industries develop development allowance of 10 per cent on projects exceeding $50 million in value. As a result of work by government and the tripartite Manufacturing Industry Council, this State has The government will shortly call for expressions of developed a clear view of where its industrial interest for two major projects in which the private opportwlities are and the measures needed to realise sector has expressed strong interest. These are the those opportunities. Southern and Western bypasses. Job councils Growth through housing Earlier this year I announced the establishment of Stimulus to the housing sector has an immediate job councils in the key industry sectors of food impact on jobs and assists in meeting important processing, manufacturing, energy, financial social justice objectives. Priority Victoria allocates services, tertiary services, tourism and recreation, $22 million to a range of housing initiatives with an and fibre processing and sustainable development. employment impact of 8600 jobs. The councils have now been determined and will be The government has developed an excellent identifying opportunities for employment growth; partnership with the housing industry and last year how to take advantage of those opportunities; and launched the Homes Now project with the Housing how to overcome impediments to growth. Industry Association. Following the launch of the MINISTERIAL STA TEMENT

408 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992

Individual Ministers will alUlOWlce details of the Victoria capture its share of the expected increase in operations of each cOWlcil over the next few weeks. tourism, the Rural Marketing FWld will be doubled in size to $2 million in 1992-93. That fund attracts Food: an industry of the future dollar for dollar contributions from the industry.

Food processing is a priority growth industry for my In 1992-93 another $1 million will be specifically government.The govenunent has supported food directed to cooperative marketing ventures with the research through a $5 million investment in the Food Australian Tourism Commission. Research Institute at Werribee. Developing a strong film industry Priority Victoria will expand the institute by providing $1.8 million over a three-year period to The govemment already supports our film-making upgrade research and development facilities to meet Industry through Film Victoria and in 1991-92 the specific requirements of the growing Asian provided funding for four film projects. market. This year Priority Victoria will fWld an additional Small business film project employing 32 people at a cost of $300000 and further enhance our reputation as the Priority Victoria will maximise Australian content in cultural capital of Australia. major projects through jOint action with the Federal govenunent and the Industrial Supplies Office. Facilitating major projects

We will improve access to finance for small business In the One Nation statement the Federal government through a working party comprising the banks, referred to the need for measures that will increase employer associations, the Victorian Farmers the efficiency of the project approval process. This is Federation and govenunent. something the employer organisations have clearly asked for during the past two years. Helping farmers invest In Victoria during the past year proponents of major It is anticipated Victoria will receive an additional projects have been able to get one-stop shop action $2.3 million from the increased rural adjustment from action teams that have been very successful in fWlds provided in the One Nation statement and facilitating the Toyota, AMECON, Golden Pacific sufficient fWlds to expand rural counselling services. Aluminium and Australian Defence Industries investments. These teams will continue to be used to With the improved outlook for most commodity secure investment projects in food processing, prices the time is right to assist farmers to Wldertake petrochemicals, pulp and paper, and other sectors. It on-farm works that will have benefits not only for is pleasing to note that One Nation takes up our them as individuals but for the Victorian economy in action team approach, and we will work with the general and regional economies in particular. Federal govemment to improve the processes - in particular, the simplification of export controls for The Rural Finance Corporation believes there are mineral sands. farmers with sOWld prospects that will not qualify Wlder the rural adjustment scheme criteria and has Lowering business costs proposed that fWlds be offered beyond the focus of the scheme. Lowering the cost of government to business has been an important focus of this government's work Priority Victoria will provide $800 000 per alUlUm over the past two years. for three years to enable the corporation to provide capital of $10 million at the concessional interest rate An Honourable Member - Rubbish! of 6 per cent per alU1um. Ms KIRNER - The facts are there for you to see! Helping tourism grow This has resulted in Significant improvements in land tax, payroll tax and WorkCare. The next step is The One Nation statement provided an additional to seek a common approach to payroll tax $15 million to the Australian Tourism Commission indexation between Victoria, New South Wales and for intemational marketing activities. To assist the Australian Capital Territory, and to review the MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 409 payroll tax to exporters program to ensure it meets Lower gas charges our export and employment objectives. The importance of accessible and affordable supplies In relation to payroll tax removal, we believe this of natural gas to the development of industry in this can be addressed only in the broader context of State is widely recognised. It is one of our reform of Commonwealth-State financial relations competitive strengths. and will require greater certainty and growth in relation to State revenues. Priority Victoria recognises this and today I am able to alUlounce: Reforming regulations

Regulation reform was a major focus of Labor in contract gas tariffs - which are applicable to 1982. By 30 June 1992 the entire regulatory structure large industrial gas consumers - will increase by that the govemment inherited in 1982 will have been a modest 2.9 per cent in 1992-93, well below the replaced by regulations no more than ten years old. CPI; After June 1992 all regulations will have a fixed all other gas tariffs will be adjusted in 1992-93 by ten-year life. no more than the CPI.

Priority Victoria will make further improvements to Honourable members interjecting. the regulatory process, developed in consultation with business, that will strengthen the focus of Ms KIRNER - If honourable members opposite regulation reform on job creation, investment and are reading their mail they will be able to reply to economic efficiency. industrial consumers by saying that that the Federal govemment's petroleum resource rent tax will not be bome by gas consumers. Legislation in which significant impediments to job growth and efficiency have been identified Stamp duty reform will be reviewed; the process of regulatory impact assessment At present there is a cap of $SO 000 on the size of involving explicit identification of costs and relief from stamp duty on property and share benefits will be extended to environment transfers occurring as part of corporate regulations; and reconstructions. The government accepts the view of the process of economic impact assessment will business leaders that this cap can hinder corporate be included as part of the legislative proposal reconstructions that would enhance business process as well as being retained for the efficiency and hence the Victorian economy. substantive subordinate legislation. The Treasurer will shortly announce revised guidelines providing relief from stamp duty on bona Better value for money fide corporate reconstructions.

This week the Treasurer alUlounced a WorkCare reform comprehensive reform package for govemment trading enterprises (GTEs) that will operate from In October 1991 the govenunent dramatically 1 July this year. The package pursues the objective I reduced the impact of WorkCare levies by removing set for the govemment last JWle to create a more the 10 per cent surcharge, saving business an commercial framework for GTEs and ensure better estimated $130 million a year. We are now working value for money for taxpayers. with industry and unions to identify opportunities for further reductions in the levy rates in order to The objective of this process is not efficiency for reduce costs to industry and generate jobs growth. efficiency's sake but improving the electricity, gas and water services that Victorians receive from their National electricity grid major trading enterprises. Following the One Nation statement, transmission COlUlections between New South Wales, South Australia and Victoria will be strengthened and new connections with Tasmania and Queensland can be MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

410 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992 established. Victoria and the SECV are strategically will continue to improve that system so as to attract positioned to be at the hub of these developments. investment and jobs to Victoria.

A feasibility study is now Wlder way into the Last year the government attempted to introduce proposed under-sea link between Victoria and industrial legislation to support enterprise Tasmania, and is expected to confirm benefits bargaining. Despite support from employers and available from energy trading and deferment of unions, it was rejected by the opposition. power station development. Priority Victoria will try to persuade the opposition Helping industries restructure yet again that partnership between employers and unions is the way to increased productivity - not The government remains concerned that the pace of confrontation. A Bill to facilitate enterprise restructuring being forced on the textile, clothing bargaining in the State industrial relations system and footwear industries is beyond the ability of will be introduced in the current Parliamentary those industries to adjust. We have argued session. W1Successfully for a slowing of the rate at which protection is being removed. We have succeeded in WORKING WITH THE COMMUNITY gaining additional Commonwealth fWlds to assist restructuring. One Nation allocated $51 million for The private sector is not the only section of the restructuring assistance. community with whom government can form a partnership for investment, growth and jobs. A wide The Department of Manufacturing and Industry range of community groups provide facilities and Development will work closely with the TCF services that can assist in generating jobs and Development Authority on enterprise improvement recovery. Often a relatively small amount of programs for firms with commitment to growth. government help can get a project started.

I am pleased to say, Mr Speaker, that today I am Seeds for community development wearing a suit from one of those firms that has a commitment to growth. Priority Victoria will provide seed fWlding for major commwlity capital projects. By this method the Mr Kennett interjected. govenunent will speed the development of these projects and generate both jobs and facilities to meet Ms KIRNER - It is better than the jumpers! commwlity needs.

Priority Victoria will: The government will consider the provision of an initial capital non-recourse loan to appropriate community groups with the provision that the assist with quick response/ electronic data sponsoring organisation raises the balance of the interchange systems that secure a degree of fwlds. "natural protection" from import competition; ensure anti-dumping measures are working This style of fWldi..ng was approved by the effectively; government in relation to the proposed investigate the scope for reducing the high cost of reconstruction of the Geelong Football Club workers compensation claims for TCF firms; grandstand. These fWlds would be particularly continue to pursue the issue of quota adjustment suited to regional cultural sporting, recreational and with the Commonwealth government. religious facilities of Significance.

Guarantee for development Improving industrial relations To get our community moving again, the A number of important investors in this State in government is prepared to extend the Treasurer's recent years have emphasised the importance of a guarantee facility to appropriate community and sensible and practical industrial relations system. sporting organisations. The government is keen to Recent statistics - despite what the opposition says support sowld applications which propose viable - underline Victoria's industrial relations success capital projects to renovate and construct buildings compared with New South Wales. This government for sport and social clubs and cooperatives. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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One example of how this could be used is the conunWUty a chance to shape its own jobs and Moorabbin TAFE proposal for an Industry Training futures. Centre that in the construction stage would create at least 600 jobs. Another opportunity would be Jobs for the environment basketball facilities where there are an estimated $35 million worth of stadium construction proposals I am proud to annOW1ce today an innovative in the pipeline. conservation and environment employment package. Our govenunent sees conservation of the Developing new opportunities environment and jobs as complementary. Priority Victoria will implement a range of projects to The recession has impacted wlevenly on regions and employ people to help protect, conserve and manage commW1ities. The One Nation statement allocated Victoria's natural resources. By combining State $8 million for additional regional employment and fWlding with assistance available W1der the Federal enterprise initiatives. Jobskills program, opportunities will be created for long-term W1employed persons with varying skills Priority Victoria will introduce further initiatives in and backgrowlds. enterprise development. We will build on the success of regional development bodies in The State fWlding will involve an additional genera ting jobs in rural areas. $15 million. As part of their employment, participants will have access to the training units Rural Enterprise Victoria developed in conjW1ction with TAPE.

Rural Enterprise Victoria (REV) is a program that Mr Stockdale interjected. encourages and assists sustainable economic development in small rural towns by helping local Ms KIRNER - I note the interjection from the commW1ities develop new enterprises and expand honourable member for Brighton. He has been quiet existing ones. so far; I calUlot blame him. The important issue is whether we are prepared to invest in the future of Over the next three years, the Federal govemment yOWlg people who calUlot afford to wait. will fWld eight new projects wlder its Business Advice to Rural Areas program, which will be Honourable members interjecting. supported by the State govemment's REV Resource Centre. In addition, Priority Victoria will fW1d a Mr Hayward interjected. further nine REV projects over a three-year period, starting in April 1992 and costing $720 000 in a full The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the honourable year. member for Prahran. I cautioned him but he took no notice. If he continues to flout the authority of the Based on past performance, the 26 Commonwealth Chair I will take the appropriate action against him. and State projects operating in rural commwlities I will not wam him again. will assist in creating up to 1200 ongoing full and part-time jobs over the next two years. Ms KIRNER -It will be too late if the opposition wants the youth of Victoria to wait until it has some Local enterprise development ideas. We have the ideas and the commitment in this package. Not only do we have the ideas, but we will Based on the REV experience in country Victoria, the also work with the conservation and community govemment alUl0w1Ced last month two enterprise orgalusations to create the jobs that we, in development initiative programs to assist in partnership, can create. stimulating employment in urban areas. Priority Victoria will rapidly expand the scheme over the The government has also arranged with the next six months to support a total of twenty Australian Conservation Foundation (ACF) and the programs in the metropolitan area and in Bendigo, Over 50s Friendly Society to access ACF green bonds Ballarat, Geelong and in the Latrobe Valley. Based finance, which will give Victorians a chance to invest on similar urban employment development models, in Victorian environment jobs. this scheme will create up to 2400 ongoing full and part-time jobs over two years and will give the MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Among other projects, these fWlds will be used to The Leader of the Opposition laughs at that fact. We enhance the Phillip Island Penguin Rookery - one are not laughing, we will do something about it. If of Victoria's major tourist attractions. he finds it amusing, I do not.

Child-care opportunities Honourable members interjecting.

In any time of recession it is tempting not to spend Mr E. R. Smith interjected. on social justice. That is not the view of the government. To assist with the access to education The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable and training for families with young children, member for Glen Waverley will remain silent. Priority Victoria will provide additional child-care service centres at TAFE campuses. Ms KIRNER - By the year 2000, 95 per cent of our young people will complete year 12. They must The government will also provide 250 child-care have clear choices and opportunities for the future places in five outer urban areas as part of its social when they leave school. justice objectives. The government welcomes the expansion of labour OPPORTUNmES FOR YOUTH market programs in the One Nation statement that will result in an estimated 4000 extra places for Mr Elder - Watch my lips. yOWlg people in Victoria.

The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable The specific measures I announce today, taken in member for Ballarat North! conjwlction with other measures in this package and in One Nation, are aimed at increasing post-school Ms KIRNER -It would be wlUsual for me to opportwlities for yowlg people. The government swear and it certainly would not be the language intends to play a major role in introducing that the Leader of the Opposition uses on his car appropriate reforms to the way in which young phone. people train for and enter the work force. I regard this as a key personal priority and government No more pressing task confronts our commwlity priority over the next twelve months. than the need to provide adequate opportunities for young people. Training for the future

We are letting young people down. The One Nation statement contains the Federal govemment's proposal to assume full funding Honourable members interjecting. responsibility for TAPE and vocational education and training and increase funding by a further Ms KIRNER -It is amazing how opposition $720 million over the next three years. For Victoria members resort to personal abuse when they have this will bring $180 million, contributing 30 000 no ideas. It is amazing - not one idea, just personal additional places by 1995, commencing in 1993. abuse. However, Priority Victoria recognises that action to Mr Seitz interjected. increase trahling opportunities is needed now.

The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable Priority Victoria will provide one-off funding of member for Keilor is out of order and out of his $5 million in the second half of 1992 to deliver an place. He is contributing Significantly to the disorder additional 1000 TAPE places with priority for young in the Chamber. I wam him. I will not wam him people. The places will be directed to regions of high again. demand.

Ms KIRNER - We are proud of our record In addition, $3.5 million will be spent on TAPE retention rates for year 12 and of the broad capital works and a further $3 million will be spent curriculum and learning skills of the VCE, but too on minor capital works to refurbish existing colleges many students are leaving school wi th no sense of and increase their capacity to take students. meaningful future. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Jobs and training through conservation long-term needs of chronically homeless young people. The government will provide $76 000 for the Priority Victoria will introduce a new pilot youth extension of the Crossroads industries program to conservation training and employment program, in increase the number of participants, specifically consultation with yowlg people, along the lines young women. Up to 40 young people will receive supported by the Archbishop of Brisbane. employment, training and support.

Designed to involve unemployed yowlg people in The Brotherhood of St Laurence has approached the conservation projects, this program will provide govenlffient with a proposal to provide a package of work-related skills and confidence, as well as measures to address the employment, housing and offering young people an opportwlity to enjoy and income support needs of young people who are contribute to Victoria's natural resources. homeless or at risk in Ballarat and Dandenong. By making the appropriate links with education and The program will provide 400 twenty-week training training, and by offering work placements, the and work placements during 1992 for 15 to project will improve employment opportwlities for 24-year-olds who have been wlemployed for six disadvantaged young people. months or more. The first 150 places will be operational within eight weeks. Priority Victoria will provide more than $100 000 in 1992-93 to address employment, housing and In partnership with private industry income support needs of young people.

My govemment welcomes opportunities to pursue We look forward to working with the brotherhood parhlerships with the private sector in ways that to implement their recent report on meeting social provide lasting benefits to yowlg Victorians. needs in Geelong in a similar way.

In September 1991 the Restaurant and Catering Enterprise development Association of Victoria approached my government with a proposal for unemployed yowlg people. As aIUlounced earlier in the statement, the Priority Victoria will introduce the hospitality govenunent will be expanding the enterprise industry work experience scheme, creating 100 development initiative program. The extension to positions in restaurants and catering establishments the program will link in with a pilot project for the for young people who have been unemployed for New Enterprise Incentive scheme (NEIS), which will six months or more. The cost of employing these be targeted specifically to youth. This project will young people will be split between the employers involve a parmership with the Commonwealth and the Victorian govemment. govemment and will provide a package of assistance, including income support, for young Together with IBM Australia Ltd and Telecom unemployed people in self-employment ventures. Australia, Priority Victoria will also assist the Up to 84 young people will be directly assisted in Wangaratta-based organisation Open Circuit in its the first year of operation. vocational information program. The govenlffient will also provide an additional These companies are setting an example for private $100000 for the Office of Youth Affairs Enterprise employers to share the responsibility for giving program, which will include a number of initiatives young people back their self-esteem. targeted to country areas assisting up to 200 young people. In partnership with community organisations CONCLUSION The government is especially concemed about young people who face particular barriers to gaining The initiatives I have announced today are employment. In developing initiatives to provide extensive. They mean upwards of 40 000 jobs. additional assistance to these groups, the Priority Victoria is directed at the many facets of government has been able to build on parmerships economic recovery. with established community groups. There are no gimmicks - no magic one-liners. The Salvation Army's Crossroads program offers integrated yet flexible support options, meeting the Honourable members interjecting. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the Premier to who are present, hoping to hear something that will pause until the House comes to order. I ask give them the opportunity of retaining their jobs. honourable members on both sides to remain silent. The Premier's statement contains nothing new; it Ms KIRNER - What this statement offers is actually retains some of the expressions from another practical step in what will be an ongoing previous statements made over the past ten years. effort to maximise Victoria's employment On page 2 the following appears: opportuni ties. Priority Victoria is the next step. Unlike our opponents, the govemment is prepared to talk about the future, not just the past; we are We have already had the next step in green prepared to plan for recovery, not wallow in documentation. That has contributed to the 46 per recession; and we are prepared to offer hope. cent youth w1employment created by the govenunent of the Premier and her predecessor. Priority Victoria is an action document, not a content-free and job-free event. It provides both Honourable members have previously heard the immediate jobs and long-term opportunities; it word "priority" used in statements made in this reduces business costs and improves the business place. The Premier said that gas prices will not be environment; it has balanced financial responsibility increased by more than the increase in the consumer with the need for action. price index. I ask honourable members: when did we last hear that? Most importantly, the Prime Minister's One Nation and now Priority Victoria reflect not just the Honourable members interjecting. govenunent's efforts to restore employment growth but the efforts of many throughout the commwlity The SPEAKER -Order! The Premier's statement who want to serve this nation and want to serve this was heard with little interruption by members on State. both sides. I ask members on both sides to respect the right of the Leader of the Opposition to be heard Mr Speaker, the goal is economic recovery. The in a similar manner. game plan is One Nation and Priority Victoria. The community are the players and will be the wiImers. Mr KENNETI - When did we last hear about the Labor govenunent's commitment to keeping Honourable Members - Guilty! Guilty! down the prices of gas, electricity and water? Just prior to the 1988 election. What was it? It was a Ms KIRNER - Mr Speaker, what a contrast. I pledge - not a dollar more! What was one of the present a copy of a paper entitled Priority Victoria: A first things the new Premier did on assuming office? statement on jobs: Speech by The Premier of Victoria and She ripped up the pledge. Now she gives us a I move: document and says, "Believe me; trust me. We are going to get the w1employment numbers down". That this House takes note of the Ministerial statement. There are five or six fundamental reasons for the Mr KENNETI (Leader of the Opposition) - Mr failure of today's statement. The first is that the Speaker, it is quite clear that the Premier has just numbers simply do not add up. The statement has delivered the last will and testament of her dying been prepared in such an ad hoc way that there are govemment. If you wanted any confirmation of that, errors in its fundamental costing, given the overall you needed only to look at the stwmed faces of those amow1t the Premier says she is going to spend. who listened in silence as they sat behind the Premier. Altematively, you needed only to observe There are also figures that do not add up in relation how many of those who sit behind the Premier did to job opportunities. I shall not go through all the not get their hands together when some on that side examples because there are thousands, but under the of the House applauded. The response from some heading "Health projects" on page 16 of the was silence. accompanying document there is a total expenditure of about $26 million over two years. We are told this Mr Speaker, if you want another indication, you will create an estimated 2700 jobs at an average cost need only look at the number of Ministerial advisers of $8888. Either we will have 2700 jobs or we will go MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 415 back to slavery under a Labor govermnent. We In other words, the only reason we have the money cannot have it both ways. to spend today is you have not been professional in meeting the programs you had in your own Budget, Shortly I shall give some illustrations of where the not that you have got them cheaper! Premier has used figures for job opportunities and has different figures to suit different press releases. The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the The figures do not add up either in the number of Opposition should address the Chair. jobs or in the financial ramifications. Mr KENNElT - This document is The second failing of the statement is perhaps more fWldamentally flawed. It is a fraud. There would not important: the document sends out the wrong be as many people out of work today if those message. It is trying to say to the people of Victoria associated with that $150 million had been able to that this State's problem is that the govemment has get the jobs tha t were provided in the Budget eight not spent enough and that if only it could spend or nine months ago. more we could overcome the unemployment problem and encourage growth. The fWldamental The figures do not add up, the statement gives the problem with Victoria is that the government has wrong message, and it is a fraud. been spending too much money for too long. The whole premi$? of this document is, fundamentally, a The third matter that must be understood is that fraud and yet today, waving rubbery figures, six there is no accowltability. Six months from an months from an election and after ten years of Labor election the Premier has come to the Parliament with government and with the highest wlemployment all the failings of the government and said, '1 have levels ever, the Premier wants to say, ''Forgive me; presented two Budgets and a statement and all have trust me; we have the answers. If necessary we will failed. Here is a new one". spend our way out of trouble". She is saying this will be done in year 1 but most This statement is an absolute con trick because we will be done in year 2, and there are projections out have been led to believe that the Premier is going to to year 3. There is no accountability because this stimulate economic activity and create more government will never be put to the test in expenditure. Let us assume for a moment that the delivering what is in this statement. Unfortunately, Premier's figures are right, although they are not. we will see more of this between now and the next On page 3 of the statement she says: election.

Expenditure initiatives total $30.4 million in 1991-92 The only commitment for immediate expenditure is and $123 million in 1992-93 will ensure the target of the money to restore the Trades Hall Council 80 000 new jobs by the middle of next year is met. .. building. The government will make sure its mates are all right. For everything else there will be a little Due to slower than expected expenditure on works in bit this year and the majority next year. There will be 1991-92, the cost of the package will be met within the no new activity; no new moneys. The government is Works and Services Budget estimate. recycling the old moneys. There are recycled jobs, old words and old messages. The govenunent is not spending an extra dollar. There is no new economic activity. The fourth reason for its failure is that central govenunent office bearers have no credibility. The Ms Kimer - You have just argued against Premier has no credibility in the community and yourself! neither do the Treasurer and the Minister for Finance. Let us consider the Treasurer. He is not Mr KENNETT - No, I have not. I am saying this here today; he is out at a briefing. Over the past few statement argues that the opportunity to create jobs days we have seen the most senior financial officer will be met out of the existing Budget. What makes of this State clearly demonstrate his gross this so bad is that at the bottom of page 4 of the incompetence. He had a press conference on statement, which the Premier did not read, states: Monday and he made statements in this place yesterday and today. Also today in a statement in Due to the slower than expected expenditure on works this place he said in part that what he said yesterday in 1991-92, the cost of this package will be met within was the same as what he said on Monday at his the Works and Services Budget estimate. press conference. Clearly the Treasurer has misled MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Parliament, as he has misled the public. He is The Opposition agrees with the Premier: this fundamentally incompetent and, at best, not up to statement should have been one of the most the task. important statements ever made by a government to the people of Victoria, if for no reason other than to Now we come to the credibility of the Premier. It is give Victorians some hope and some sense of future true, she came to the job in recent times. Yes, she has direction. Yet the Premier made her statement on used the resources of the government and the jobs on a day when she knows media coverage of it Australian Labor Party to shore up her own persona. will be limited. If she had been confident of the At the end of the day there is only one thing the programs in her statement she would have had the people want to know: whether under Premier Kirner courage to deliver it away from the distraction of the they will be better or worse off. The answer is a World Cup. resounding: worse off! Mr Batchelor interjected. This statement was going to be her job statement but the public is not listening to the Premier. It has Mr KENNETI - The honourable member for stopped listening; 72 per cent of the public now Thomastown says, by interjection, "Let's hear it". believe Victoria is heading in the wrong direction The honourable member is one of a group of three under this government. In order for the govenunent people - the others being the Premier and the to ignite confidence among the public it must create Treasurer - that mopes around at No. 2 Treasury a belief that what is in the statements it makes will Place, day in, day out. They all arrive early; they be delivered. On past performance the govenunent even go walking together. Those three are the has not been able to deliver. We have heard the architects of the collapse of the Victorian economy rhetoric time and again. Central govenunent officials and the collapse of confidence in this State. are incompetent and the public has no confidence in them. The honourable member for Thomastown came to this House with a strong record of commitment to The Treasurer has now resorted to misleading the people! If he has to lie, he will do it - as he did Parliament to hide his own stupidity and in Nunawading -- incompetence. Honourable members interjecting. By going through the programs outlined I shall expose Priority Victoria as a sham. If the public The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the hoped the document would provide jobs or show Opposition has used a term that is unacceptable and that the government had learnt anything, it has been unparliamentary, and I ask him to withdraw it. sadly let down. Mr KENNETI - I withdraw it, Mr Speaker; but I Knowing as she does what is happening today, one remind the House that at the time the honourable wonders why the Premier decided to make her member for Thomastown admitted he had misled statement when, to the benefit of the State, the the public. attention not only of Victorians but also of a world-wide audience will be focused on the World Honourable members interjecting. Cup cricket. The answer is that the Premier was not sufficiently confident of the document to have it Mr KENNETI - "Get out of the gutter!" Who assessed by a public not distracted by other activities. said that? Right now Victoria is in a huge gutter, with 46 per cent of its youth unemployed and with a Ms Kirner interjected. Premier who will not accept any responsibility for the past but who claims that she knows the answers. Mr KENNElT -If the Premier wants to debate The statement is a fraud and is an example of this that, I shall give her a reference point. The last time government's consistent incompetence. the government indulged in a similar exercise was in 1988, when a State election was called in the middle The Premier continually harks back to the actions of of the spring racing carnival, the football finals and her new-found friend, the Prime Minister, the Olympic Games to divert the attention of Mr Keating. It is generally agreed that the Prime Victorians from the govenunent's failures and to Minister's statement, One Nation, contained some ensure that the true nature of the problems Victoria $360 million worth of projects for Victoria. But in the was facing did not see the light of day. eight months since delivering its Budget the State MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Labor govenunent has lost four times that The only party that has not honoured the amoWlt - $1.2 billion. The government wants to commitments it has given is the govenunent. kick-start the economy with programs totalling $360 million while driving the State further into debt, Anyone who doubts or questions the honesty of this forcing thousands of people out of business and government will have his or her attitudes confirmed creating tens of thousands of w1employed. by the examples I am about to give the House.

Ms Kimer interjected. Firstly, the govenunent made a commitment to redevelop the Royal Melbourne Hospital, a Mr KENNETI - The Premier shakes her head. world-class hospital we all should be proud of. But a That is true! Do not tell me you will deny that truth. closer examination shows that that program was Do not tell me that you are willing to accept first amlounced on Friday, 1 February 1991, more Mr Keating's Bankcard without accepting than one year ago. That program is nothing more or responsibility for the level of the State's debt. less than a recycled policy that has not been honoured. Of course, when the Premier first Let us consider the Premier as a commwlity-based alUlounced the program she gained all the publicity politician, as a mother and a householder. I am sure she was looking for - the program looked good, she tha t in your household -- was able to have her photograph taken, and it seemed as though she was getting on with the job. The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the But at the end of the day she failed, which is why Opposition should address the Chair. this program has been regurgitated in the statement on jobs. Mr KENNETI - Let us assume that the Premier is all of those things. I guarantee that the Premier Honourable members will find the next program of does not run her household the way she rW1S the interest. While in Geelong in November last year the State. I guarantee that when she gets a hike in her Premier alUlounced a $300 000 initiative for a new wages, as we all do intermittently, she does not birthing centre. What do we find in today's immediately go out and incur a debt four times the statement? An alUlouncement of a new birthing size of her increase. centre for Geelong!

This is a govenunent of conflicting standards. On Honourable members interjecting. the one hand it claims a standard of caring for people and representing their interests in Mr KENNETI - You wouldn't believe it! You're Parliament; but on the other hand it has a standard amazing! But I must be fair, Mr Speaker. Since she of looking after itself, of saying that because it has made the statement in November last year, which access to other people's money it knows better than she has not acted on, costs have risen. Last year the they do how to spend it and how to do the job of Premier made a commitment of $300 000; but the governing the State. statement contains a commitment for $500 000 for the building of the centre. But the commitment is The irony of the double standard of the nothing new! government's accepting $365 million while losing up to $1.2 billion should not be lost on anyone. Yet the As an example of a govenunent supposedly driving govenunent dares to aml0unce in the House tha t it its way forward to create jobs, the document has a document that will generate economic activity. contains a commitment to the building of a health centre in Dandenong. Dandenong needs all the Not one new dollar of economic activity will be assistance it can get because it is a working-class generated as a result of the Premier's statement on area that is bearing the brwlt of the policies of this jobs. Instead the statement highlights the useless, incompetent govenunent. But the promise government's failure to spend money it had already to build the health centre was first made just prior to appropriated, which it admits in its own documents. the 1988 election - four years ago.

Let us examine how some of the money set aside in Honourable members interjecting. last year's Budget will be recycled to assist the people of Victoria. The opposition is very much in Mr KENNETI - The then Premier said, ''Trust favour of honouring commitments that are made. me". The present Premier claims to have the MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

418 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992 answers. But this government calUl0t be trusted with reply: the government still believes that the way $1 more of public fWlds. ahead is the expenditure of more money, as opposed to the opposition's view, which is that you cannot The Labor government is not prepared to tell the spend before you generate wealth. truth or to honour the promises it makes. The Premier says, "I have a deal for you", but her There will be one simple question that all Victorians concern about the importance of the creation of jobs will have to answer at the next election: they will not is well documented! be voting for a Liberal Party, a coalition government or the Labor Party or whether they want Joan Kimer Since 21 March 1991, exactly one year ago, the or Jeff KelUlett as Premier, but for which philosophy Premier has made no less than thirteen separa te will secure employment for those currently policy statements on job creation. Every time she employed and provide employment growth in the wants more coverage she visits a safe factory and future. The opposition believes in wealth creation argues that the government has a job creation policy. and in encouraging the private sector so that it can Thirteen policy statements in one year! Every one of employ, and it emphasises a reward for others. them has made a specific promise on the creation of new jobs. In those thirteen policy statements the There was a time during the period of the former Premier has promised 13 030 new jobs to Victorians, Premier, the honourable member for Bundoora, but sadly those promises have not been fulfilled. The when the Labor government believed in wealth thirteen policy statements contained promises given distribution, that is, raiding the reserves. That publicly that have not been met. Yet the Premier government spent money that had been stored in says today that she wants Victorians to believe she so-called hollow logs; it redistributed the wealth. will meet the new criteria. The reality is that during Under the former Premier, the current Premier and her twenty months in office 124 700 Victorians have the former Treasurer who is currently the Minister actually lost their jobs. for Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training, this government redistributed the wealth; The Premier cynically raises the hopes and and under the current Treasurer it is now expectations of Victorians. Yet not one of her redistributing debt. It borrows money to spend, but promises comes to anything. Nothing has changed the commwlity will have to ask itself the question: and nothing will. which economic philosophy will best secure its opporttUlities in the future? As I said earlier, this Ministerial statement is the Premier's fourth major economic statement to Unfortunately the Ministerial statement fails all the Parliament. It is delivered at a time of crisis, at a tests. It fails on debt management because debt period when Victoria faces one of the greatest threatens to engulf Victoria. Under the so--called debt challenges it has faced since the great depression. It management strategy debt is increasing by is delivered at a time when Victorians are $4 million a day. Every day Victoria goes further and fundamentally crying out for three things: real further into debt by $4 million! That debt has to be political leadership, honesty and accowltability. serviced, but the private sector, the wealth creating sector, is shrinking. That is no problem for the The birth of the document was typically and hand-picked Treasurer! symbolically delayed in the hands of the nursemaid, Mr Halfpenny, who had to ensure that his views I never thought I would see the day when someone were considered before it was finalised. would come from the ranks of the Labor government who would make the former Treasurer, The Premier had a final chance to make a statement the Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary that would restore confidence in the community. Education and Training/look good. For all that The overwhelming priority of Victorians is the Minister's failings as Treasurer and as a Minister, restoration of confidence and the examples I have there is no doubt that he has political skills and the given today bear that out, but the document fails the capacity for hard work. We may not agree with his test. philosophies, but he is a consummate politician. He has been replaced not through a vote of caucus, but When one considers the past two Budgets, the by the Premier's hand-picked appointment. The economic statement fails virtually every economic Treasurer, when he was on the backbench, and social test that can be applied to it. I go back to consistently wldermined the former Treasurer the second point I made when commencing my publicly and privately to the media. However, he MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 419 has proved himself to be absolutely incompetent. experience of those on our side who are offering Who would have believed there was a person on themselves to manage Victoria for the next four that side of the House who, when given the years in partnership with the conummity, or the opportwuty to flourish, would make Tom Roper government with its policy of debt distribution, a look like a hero? The Treasurer has done that. It is a government whose leading core was responsible for tragedy and a travesty that the Premier, the all the problems over the past decade because its Treasurer and the honourable member for members had never been involved in business Thomastown are the cartel who are putting their themselves. socialist left imprimatur on this govenunent while the State falls apart. The Treasurer is the The Premier was a community activist and a teacher hand-picked maiden of the Premier. He will transfer but she has never invested a dollar of her own in a debt from one set of books to another and hope the business venture. Has the Pren1ier employed one debt will disappear. person? Has the Treasurer employed one person? He was a bully as a teacher and a bully as a The Premier has made a commitment, a pledge, not footballer, but when has he created work? Has he to increase gas prices. How can she make that paid the taxes and charges imposed on a business? promise when the Treasurer is restructuring the debt of those authorities so that guarantees will be When has the former Treasurer, the honourable removed from their remaining debt! The authorities' member for Doveton, ever employed a person? borrowings will increase to meet the obligations to When has the Minister for Finance ever employed a the Victorian Equity Trust and they will pay more person? Have these people ever created wealth? for their borrowings. It will not work. It is the same They have never done so. However, most stupid economic philosophy that we have heard honourable members on this side of the House have over the past week. Tragically the government's been involved not only in wealth creation in debt will be left to the next government and the next business but they have also used their own skills generation of Victorians to pay. and their own money to provide employment.

As my colleague the honourable member for Honourable members interjecting. Brighton has said consistently during the period that the opposition and the community have tried to Mr KENNETI - Again the Pren1ier mocks my w1derstand the government's philosophy, this involvement in the butting business. She said I had government is deliberately sabotaging the future pulled out. Last year no govenunent - Federal or well-being of the State for political reasons; and in State -was prepared to support that kIUtting sabotaging that future by incurring financial machine. Today the Premier spoke about obligations it is ensuring that unemployment levels teclulOlogy. At the time Felicity and I invested in the will be conSistently high. knitting machin~ we put together the ancillary equipment and a team of people. We built up the The govenunent strategy of debt management is to business and we have sold out, but that business is borrow more money and hang the consequences. It still going today and making a profit. What do you is an outrage. It is one of the most reprehensible acts suggest should have happened? ever taken by a democratically elected government. The government fails on debt management; it fails Honourable members interjecting. on jobs. Mr KENNETI -It is a clear demonstration of The Premier spent much of her time addressing the the stark difference between our parties. The jobs issue. The Budget does not have sufficient Premier has offered the community a document money to create more jobs unless the figures are - words not work. We on this side of the House wrong, and the opposition knows they are. The work and we employ people. But the govenunent govenunent is recycling old money, so there will be ridicules US for it. no new jobs. Mrs Hirsh interjected. Victoria has become a jobs wasteland. When we go into the election it will be interesting to note whether The SPEAKER -Order! I ask the honourable the public chooses the philosophical positions of members for Wantima and Derrimut to remain wealth creation or debt distribution. The commw1ity silent. The Premier was heard by members on both will have the opportunity of choosing between the sides with little interruption. The Leader of the MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

420 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992

Opposition is entitled to exactly the same respect a huge need, have been set up in Dandenong. and the House is entitled to the same respect. Unprecedented demands are being made on those kitchens and on agencies that are assisting in trying Mr KENNETI - Nothing demonstrates more to overcome the legacy left by the Labor clearly the difference between the two sides in this government, a legacy that will affect Victoria for Chamber than the response from the government generations to come. benches. We are proud to have employed people. You, Mr Speaker, know that in Werribee growing Mr Thomson interjected. numbers of w1employed youth have been associated with an increasing incidence of crime. Whatever is Mr KENNETI - The difference between our done, it must be understood clearly that the first step side and that of the honourable member for Pascoe towards overcoming the situation - as I said Vale is that we have employed people. We have months ago when addressing the economic and provided security. The government is using our social recession - is to address the recession of money but then it drives business out of the State. confidence. It is by far the most important ingredient The value of the government's policies is seen not in to be dealt with in the fight to get the State back any new business but in the fact that yOW1g people together again. today between the ages of fifteen and nineteen years want work but cannot get it. I have argued many times in this place and outside it that we are heading in the wrong direction. The only The honourable member for Pascoe Vale laughs. He way to restore confidence is to give the State an has talked about social justice and the government opportw1ity to decide which management team can has talked about social justice. The honourable lead the State to recovery. The Premier has argued member for Coburg represents an area that has one against that but, if she is genuinely concerned about of the highest levels of w1employment - talk about the third point in the document, all the research social justice! indicates that the only thing left for her to do is to ensure that we can rebuild opportunities for our The government does not understand how wealth is yOW1g people and others who have lost their jobs. created and what it is to create jobs. The Premier has delivered Budgets and a statement all of which have This statement does not address the recession of repeatedly referred to getting debt under control confidence because the people no longer believe and creating jobs but she has failed; not one of those what the Premier is saying. They do not believe two three documents has worked. Today we have a Budgets and another statement will make any fourth document that is hidden behind the World difference, particularly when the government uses Cup cricket and all the other hoopla. It will fail much of the phraseology it has used in the past. because it has not been put together in a way that will engender confidence. The document also fails on any assessment of good housekeeping. This year the government has I listened with great interest to the reports about the budgeted for a record $1.5 billion loss. The Treasurer ALP State Conference last week and how the had the audacity to say, "These are good figures; we Premier was leading the ALP arow1d the corner. are on track". How can he be on target when he has How many times have we heard that? There is no lost $1.5 billion on a Budget of $14 billion? We now J-curve with this government; there is a straight line hear that the Budget might blowout, as it has, by that goes down and down. Every month more another $120 million or $130 million and that figure Victorians lose their jobs but they do not receive any is kept lower because the government is trying to reassurances from those leading the State. The sell assets. This is w1acceptable in good government does not have the wherewithal to housekeeping. restore confidence. An Honourable Member - Tell us what your The honourable members for Dandenong and policies are? Dandenong North w1derstand that we now have unemployment ghettos in Victoria, not just of yOW1g Mr KENNETI - I shall come to those shortly people but a whole range of people, including senior because we have released a number of policies. and middle-aged men and women who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own and who will We support some ingredients of the Premier's never get another. Soup kitchens, which are serving statement today because she has stolen them from MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 421 us, as she has done in the past. When the on radio and was laying the blame on intemational govemment fowld out that the Premier's changes to factors this time. She said President Bush's policies education were denying our children competitive were wrong and she said he had better change his education and employment it changed them and policies. We have this paragon of virtue, of economic took up the aspects that my colleague, the restraint and performance on the air waves, not honourable member for Prahran, has been blaming the Federal government because she got the articulating since he released his education policy man she wanted but now looking further afield to last year. America and saying that all our problems are caused by President Bush. Even the way the govemment went about it is appalling. It did it at the last moment so that even If anyone wants to listen to the tape,'we will play it. today there are students still doing Australian It is coming up shortly once the coalition resumes studies because the govemment announced the the advertisements. It's a beauty! ''Don't blame me, changes just before Christmas when the schools had blame President Bush" is what she said. It will be a no opportunity of adjusting and the students had great series of ads. Don't miss it! already bought their books. The Minister for Education and Training at the time messed up the Even now, although she tries, she cannot blame the instruction from Cabinet. The instruction was that coalition because any assessment of this the change was to be a1Ulowlced a year later. He government's performance compared with that of rushed out and alUlounced it immediately! former govemments clearly illustrates that those govemments were putting aside reserves and were Also in the document today the Premier talks about conservative and prudent. The Treasurer in 1982 calling for tenders for the link between the West rushed out with a $400 million forward statement on Gate Bridge and the South Eastem Arterial. When costs. We do not need any special look at the books we a1Ulowlced our Vision for Melbourne document, now; we know by any analysis the government this there it was. How many times has my colleague in year alone will lose in excess of $1.5 billion, six times another place, Mr Birrell, implored the govemment more than the amowlt it argued before. to call for tenders so that we can get on with the job? Yet the government keeps saying we have no As I said, all we hear from the Treasurer and the policies. The govemment keeps taking our policies, Premier now is that these are good figures. If these and we are happy about that. However, the one it sorts of figures and losses are good, what joy do they calUlot take is that relating to debt management offer to the people of Victoria? The Treasurer takes because Labor philosophy is wrong; the govemment great pleasure in rwuling about the community does not know where it is coming from; it has never saying that he will be happy if the deficit comes in at had to manage anything. $200 million or $300 million over the record target. What a Singular indictment of the philosophy that With regard to everything that has been spent on has driven this State for the past ten years! It is one behalf of the commwlity, I should love to know how of absolute rejection of human interest, employment much of Labor's members' own money has been put for all ages, social welfare and social justice. Again into these programs in the past two years. The the legacy of this Labor government will be Premier has many problems but she has one that is wlparalleled levels of unemployment among all fWldamental and crucial: she ca1Ulot go on any sectors of the community. longer blaming Canberra. The big out last year was the "Don't blame me" Kimer philosophy: "It's not This document fails on any test of confidence. There my responsibility, it's the Federal govemment's is nothing in this statement nor in any of the responsibility". The silver bodgie was the one Premier's statements that will lead the responSible for everything. She had to get rid of the commentators, the marketplace or the public of former Prime Minister and she and the Treasurer Victoria to believe the Premier has finally grasped worked for weeks and months undermining her what needs to be done. It will not contribute one Federal Leader. She got what she wanted; she got whit to the restoration of confidence in this State. the Prince of Darkness and now she calUlot simply go and criticise him. It is over! Mr Recession has Mr Gavin interjected. handed over his Bankcard to the Premier. Mr KENNETf - The honourable member for I heard one of the most fascinating interviews I have Coburg is so confident of his position and the ever heard when the Premier was being interviewed policies of his party that he has actually closed down MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

422 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992 his electorate office. I have a letter in my office from believe anything she says ever again; why should a constituent from the honourable member's Victorians accept anything the Premier says about electorate which states that he had a matter of economic recovery, about jobs, investment or employment he wanted to raise and when he implementing an wlfunded infrastructure program? approached the electorate office he fowld the The Premier's rhetoric judged against results paints telephone had been cut off, the office had been a stark picture. It is a picture of a fumbling Premier. closed and there was a sign on the office door to say It is a picture of a Premier wlable to come to grips that the honourable member was now out in another with the economic fWldamentals and incapable of electorate office. delivering a disciplined approach to economic management. Honourable members interjecting. I shall try to give a few examples because it is The SPEAKER - Order! The Minister for important as we go into this election period that Tourism is well aware he is out of order. I ask him to people understand and decide on an answer to that remain silent and I ask the honourable member for question based on the factual activity of this Ballarat North to remain silent. government's period in office.

Mr KENNEIT - If the honourable member for Just on twenty months ago in her first Budget the Coburg had any confidence in the policies of his Premier tackled Budget sector debt. She proclaimed own government he would have the courage to that wlder her management Budget sector debt represent the people who elected him to this place. would decline by $139 million. That impressive He has not. He has left his electorate. He has washed claim would have been supported by all honourable his hands of his commwlity and he is now out there members. The sad reality is a little different. Budget for reasons of personal greed to make sure he does sector debt actually increased by $1105 million. The not become an unemployment statistic. To hell with Premier missed out by only $1000 million! the people he represents! Forget about the young people, forget those who are losing their jobs in the In the same document the Premier said the Budget textile, clothing and footwear industry - this would repay $100 million to the Victorian Debt honourable member is putting his own interests Retirement FWld. That was a clear statement of first. He is saying to the 30 000 people who elected intent, a clear policy commitment. Unfortunately it him that he is not available, he is going out to secure was not repaid. Instead the $100 million allocation his own job. He is guilty, guilty, guilty! was used by the Premier to finance the government's growing deficit. This statement has one significant redeeming feature and some good does come from it: it will be the last In the same document every Budget projection and mini-Budget or statement delivered in this economic forecast tumed out to be wildly wrong. Parliament this century by a Labor Premier. Never Without going through them all and to save the again in this century will a Labor Premier deliver an House some time, as I am only one-tenth of the way economic statement or a mini-Budget to this through my contribution this aftemoon, I seek leave Parliament because this government has failed the to have incorporated in Hansard two tables from the test of responsibility to the community. government's Budget Papers that list the actual and estimated figures referred to in my contribution. We owe the commwlity the answer to one single question and it lies at the heart of the statement Leave granted; tables as follows: today: why should we believe the Premier; why should we believe her statement; why should we MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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KIRNER GOVERNMENT FORECASTING FAILURES

1. Economic Statement June Statement August Projections Budget

"Other Current Outlays" for 91-92 $8547.7m $8694.2m +$146.5m "Capital Outlays" $1896.8m $1785.0m -$111.8m "Deficit" $1488.4m $1494m +$5.6m Between Mrs Kirner's statement in June and the Budget in August, "Other current outlays" blowout was $146.5 million, demonstrating that the Labor government was unable to rein in its Ministers' propensity to spend. Labor's excess spending was partly funded by a cut-back in capital outlays of $111.8 million (government figure includes retrenchment package) and by an increase in the expected deficit of $5.6 million in only two months.

2. Budget Projections 1989-90 1990-91 1991-92

Budget Sector Deficit Forecast $713.2m $659.8m $1494.0m Actual $1003.3m $1248.7m Error +40.7% +89.3% Budget Sector Interest Forecast change +$119.3m +$109.1m +$231.4m Actual change +$178.5m +$128.5m Error +49.6% +17.8% Net Budget Sector Debt Forecast change +$672m -$139m +$1197m Actual change +$1771m +$1105m Error +163.5'Yo wrong direction Net Public Sector Debt Forecast change +$1229m +$574m +$1582 Actual change +$2555m +$1631m Error +1U7.9% +184.1% On key budget indicators, measurable forecasting error is as high as 184 per cent. On the crucial issue of debt management the latest measurable forecast is actually in the wrong direction.

TABLE 10 BUDGET FORECASTS v ACTUAL OUTCOMES 1990-91

A. Budget Indicators.

Indicator Estimate Actual Variance ($M) ($M) ($M) 0/0

Budget deficit 660.0 1248.7 +588.7 +89.2 Increase in Budget sector interest payments +109.1 +128.5 + 19.4 + 17.8 Reduction/increase in Budget sector debt -139.0 +1105 +1244 Increase in public sector net debt +574.0 +1631 +1057 +184.1 Public sector net debt as a proportion of Non-farm GDP 25.2 28.3 MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

424 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992

B. Economic Indicators.

Indicator Estimate Actual (%Change) (%Change)

Real GDP +1.8 - 4.0 Gross national expenditure 0 -7.0 Consumption +2.0 - 1.2 Domestic demand +1.0 - 3.7 Dwelling investment +1.7 -15.0 Business investment -4.1 -16.6 Average weekly earnings +6.9 + 6.0 CPI +7.1 + 5.8 Employment +1.5 - 2.3 Real household disposable income +2.3 - 2.1 Unemployment (level) 5.8 8.4

Sources: Budget Papers 1990-91 and 1991-92

Ms KIRNER (Premier) - On a point of order, The SPEAKER - Order! Will the Leader of the Mr Speaker, will the Leader of the Opposition advise Opposition simply explain the basis of the figures? the House on the attribution of the document? Is it a Liberal Party document, an opposition document or Mr KENNEIT - I suppose we could have a document based on estimates of economic brought in three sets of Budget documents but wt' analysts? thought it would be easier for incorporation into Hansard if we collated the statistics provided in the The SPEAKER - Order! Will the Leader of the government's own documents. Opposition advise the source of the information in the document? The SPEAKER - Order! There is no point of order. The Leader of the Opposition may contim.:.e. Mr KENNEIT (Leader of the Opposition) - The source of the document is the government's Budget Mr KENNEIT - I refer to the Premier's Papers. economic statement of JW1e 1991, a statement that was proclaimed as one that would turn Victoria Ms KIRNER (Premier) - That was not the around and provide jobs; a statement that would question I asked. I asked him who did the analysis of attract investment to Victoria. This was the the figures and to whom will the analyses be statement that was to allow the Labor Party to get its attributed? hOllse in order.

Mr KENNEIT (Leader of the Opposition) - I am One figure starkly illustrates how the govemme:lt happy to provide the information. The document again failed to deliver. In the JW1e economic contains figures for 1989-90, 1990-91 and 1991-92. statement the Premier's projection for other currt'nt The Budget figures for the three years have been put outlays by her government was $8547 million. Ir, the together. period between that statement and the delivery of the August Budget, just a couple of months later. the Honourable members inteljectil1g. figure had blown out by $146 million.

The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the In her June statement the Premier claimed her Opposition is attempting to respond to the point of government had an effective and sustained debt order. I ask honourable members to allow him to management strategy but the Auditor-General continue. revealed an increase of $5500 million in Budget sector indebtedness in just over a year. Mr KENNEIT - My office, my economic adviser has drawn -- In the Premier's second Budget she declared a rew and responsible approach would be taken to thE Honourable members inteljecting. economic management of the State's finances. It was out with the old era and in with the new, although at Mr KENNEIT - Isn't it interesting? I suppose that stage it was the Premier and the former we could have -- Treasurer, Mr Roper. What happened? There was a record $1494 million deficit and budget sector MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 425 spending increased by $1266 million. Imagine what Earlier I said there was a fundamental difference the result would have been if there had not been a between honourable members on this side of the new and responsible approach to economic House and those on the other side. The difference is management! Just imagine if the Premier had been in our philosophies. I do not refer to philosophies irresponsible! One could continue the assessment of under Labor, the coalition, the Liberal Party or the the three documents that have been in place long National Party. Victorians have the clear record of enough for the community to know what has the government before them. The government's happened to the estimates and to the actual figures. philosophies are opposed to the philosophies of my colleagues and me. We are people who, on a Today the Premier tried for the folith time to get it day-to-day basis, create wealth and employment. right. She has produced two Budgets and two economic statements. The Premier says she will have Mr. A. J. Sheehan - And do a bit of knitting! another go in August - the third Budget. Given that the Premier has promised she will extend the Mr KENNElT - It is interesting that the suffering and pain of Victorians for as long as Treasurer, this sneering man, is opposed to anyone possible, we may even have another statement on who employs people. All the Treasurer does is sneer, Christmas Day, the day before the latest date for the sneer, sneer. The Treasurer in this forum tries to use State election, which is Boxing Day! the same tactics he adopted on the football field.

The fundamental question is whether we can believe A fonner football colleague of the Treasurer told me the Premier. I ask: why should we believe the that when the Treasurer played football he was a Premier? Will the contents of her statement enable bully. He charged around the field like a bully. the public to draw confidence from it? There is no When an opponent kicked a goal Tony Sheehan, in a record of achievement associated with any of the gruff voice, would yell out, 'Who was on that three documents that have been handed down by player?" To a man, his team mates all turned around the Premier. and said, ''You should have been!" You failed as a player; you failed as a schoolteacher; and you have I understand the Premier has expressed concern that failed as a Treasurer. the opposition has not introduced or made public all its policies. Members of the government bleat that The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the message day in, day out. A number of opposition Opposition should address the Chair. policies -- Mr KENNElT - The Premier's statement is the Mr Crabb - Just two! philosophy our opponents say will create employment. Again I point out that not one of these Mr KENNETf - There have been more than two. community activists has ever invested his or her money to create one job. Mr Crabb - We haven't seen any. The statement delivered today is a very real symbol Mr KENNETf - Among others, there has been of a government in decay. It is a very real symbol of WorkCare, the vision for Melbourne and the debt a Premier who has lost her way. It is a very real reduction strategy, and there will be more. I advise symbol of a government that is now trying to recycle the Premier she can have all the policies in the world all the phrases and all the prettiness of all the if she does the right thing and calls an election documents that it has put together in the past ten today. She can have all our policies tomorrow. years. The first step will become the last step. The feeling for priority will be someone else's priority. Neither the Parliament nor I intend to allow the government to divert attention away from its Mc Micallef - What about management? failings, even by some good news. In her statement today the Premier is not pushing the government's Mc KENNETT - The honourable member for record. In the document today the government is not Springvale is the man who used to work on the shop saying, 'We are an achieving government". The floor, the man who used to be the union document is an attempt by the government to wash representative, the man who is wealthy today - and its hands and say, ''Forget what we have done over good luck to him - the man who never employed the past ten years; I, Joan of Arc, will create all the but was always happy to be employed, and the man employment opportunities that you need". who wants to mock those who gave him the MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

426 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992 opportwtity to get the security and wealth he now It should give the community the opportunity to enjoys. take control of its own lifestyle.

Mr Micallef interjected. The buck clearly stops with the Premier. She can receive advice from anywhere - from Ministers, Mr KEN NETT - I think it is good that you are from the backbench, from Canberra or from wealthy. I like to see members of the Labor Party members of the trade union movement - but in the garnering wealth. But the only thing they must end she will have to make a decision. How much remember as they are garnering that wealth is that longer is she going to mislead the people of Victoria? they are doing so because of the efforts of those who How much more pain is this Premier going to put have taken risks and those who have paid wages our young people through? How many Victorians and provided opportunities for employment. who are currently at school, at university or doing apprenticeships are going to miss out simply We obviously look forward to the time when the because this Premier wants to put her own perks public will have the opportunity to make a very and lurks before the opportunities for the majority? clear-all decision, not about our future in this House - not like the honourable member for I say to the Premier: you talked earlier last week Coburg who puts his interests before those of his about a new standard of debate in this place; you constituents - but about their future and the said you did not enjoy the bear pit of politics. You direction of this State. have the opportwtity of doing something that will actually assist in Victoria's recovery, and that is to I have no doubt that our strategy and our policies restore confidence by calling an election. You need will be overwhelmingly supported, and the section only to name the date. You may make it Boxing Day. of the community by which they will be supported most will be the young people. There are a few The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the honourable members in this House, such as the Opposition will address the Chair. honourable member for Bundoora and a few on this side, who have been in this place since 1976. Since Mr KENNETT - The Premier may make it that period it has been the case historically that those Boxing Day. between the ages of 18 and 24 or 25 years have overwhelmingly voted for our political opponents, Ms Kimer interjected. the Labor Party. But that has changed substantially because the young today, who are better educated Mr KENNETT - Here we go again with all this than ever before, know that the philosophy followed garbage! by our opponents has not provided them with work. Ms Kimer interjected. In my sixteen years in this place I do not recall a time when the young have so clearly deserted the Labor Mr KENNETT - The whole sta tement today is Party, and they have deserted it because of just words. You have not ever created one job philosophy. They want jobs. They know Labor does yourself. Members of the Uberal Party have, in the not work; they know Labor is fundamentally about middle of recessions, put up their money, run risks greed and self-interest and that its members are and actually provided genuine jobs; yet the Premier concerned with their own greed and their own says to us that we have not created one job. There self-interest, as is well and clearly demonstrated by are honourable members here who actually employ the honourable member for Coburg and the current people out in the community, giving them security Premier, who says that she will extend her time and reward. The Premier has never employed one through to Boxing Day if necessary in order to hold person without using public funds. Not once have onto the lurks and perks of office - not to try to you put up $1 of your own money. help rebuild or restart, but for reasons of sheer selfishness. Under our philosophy and under our practices, as opposed to your theories and words, we will employ That is what Labor represents today: greed and people. But the key to that is getting you and your selfishness. If that is not the case, the government government out of office. has the opportwtity to do something that would have the overwhelming support of the community. The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the Opposition will address the Chair. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Mr KENNE1T - The one important thing left for and testament of a dying government, unfortunately this Premier to do is to make the decision on when led by a person who is now more concerned with she will go. How much longer is she going to put self-interest, perks and lurks than with the benefit of children of this State who are currently at school or the community of Victoria. unemployed through prolonged agony because she will give them no direction except one of Honourable Members - Hear, hear! selfishness? The one answer we have had today is Boxing Day - as late as possible. My perks, the Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - We have Premier's perks and the perks of the honourable listened for more than an hour to the Leader of the member for Coburg are more important than the Opposition and have waited for an idea, let alone a community's interests! As I said last week, and I say series of ideas or a policy. We are no further it again today, it is a sad reflection that the Labor advanced-- Party, which was born out of the labour movement and unemployment, has turned its back on those it Mr I. W. SMITH (Polwarth) -On a point of has claimed to represent. order, Mr Speaker, traditionally in this place in the debate on a statement of this nature the call has It is so irresponsible of the Premier to mislead her rotated from the Minister who made the statement own State Labor conference by trying to say we have to the opposition and then to the National Party. It turned the corner. The Premier does have a seems strange that when the Leader of the National responsibility: she has a responsibility to give Party jumped to his feet he did not receive the call. leadership. There is only one area of leadership that Will you explain why? the community is crying out for now. Give them a date on which they can attempt to take control of Mr CRABB (Minister for Tourism) - On the their own lives again and decide on the philosophy point of order, Mr Speaker, the honourable member that will direct and rebuild the State of Victoria. The for Polwarth does sleep a lot in here and he may not opposition is more than willing and ready to take on have noticed that the other side of the House claims that debate and argue the issues and policies and, to have a coalition. The only reason that the third based on our own experiences, ultimately provide party was ever given a separate call in days of yore the jobs. We come from a base of creation of wealth, was that the Chair did not know whether that party not debt redistribution. was supporting or opposing the question before the House until its representatives rose to their feet and The Premier says, "Oh God!" It is very sad that even indicated as much. now, with this State sinking into debt, the Premier is still not prepared to recognise that the philosophy Honourable members on the opposition side of the that has motivated, not the once-great Labor House have all publicly espoused and said that they Party - I am prepared to say there are some very have a coalition on questions that come before the good things in the philosophy of the Labor House. By definition, therefore, the call goes to the Party - but this Premier, her predecessor and her opposition coalition and then back to the members now is not a philosophy of equity; it is one government, which is the way it happened during of greed and selfishness. By delaying the date of the last two sessional periods. It is astonishing that recovery and the rebuilding process, the Premier the honourable member for Polwarth has not will ensure that more Victorians suffer everywhere noticed that; perhaps he did and he has a problem in the State. with attentiveness.

This statement is and will be seen for what it is: a Honourable members interjecting. recycled grab of former statements. It is dishonest and misleading because it does not create one new The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable job that should not have already been in place this member for BalIarat North is out of order and I ask year, because if the Premier had spent the money him to remain silent. If he cannot I will be forced to that she allocated in the Budget last year she would take action against him. have employed the ridiculously high number of people that she says in this statement will be Mr KENNE'IT (Leader of the Opposition) - On employed. the point of order, Mr Speaker, we are debating a Ministerial statement, which should be treated as This statement is a fraud. As I said earlier, it will be have all other Ministerial statements: the Minister seen both in this place and outside as the last will makes the statement and the call is then given, MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

428 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992 firstly, to the Leader of the Liberal Party and then to Mr HONEYWOOD (Warrandyte) - On the the Leader of the National Party. That has been the point of order, Mr Speaker, during the course of the tradition and practice in this place for the sixteen speech by the Leader of the Opposition this years that I have been here. afternoon the Premier was seen to go up to you and give some very definite instruction-type advice. I think I am correct in saying that, in relation to a Would you care to advise the House whether the Ministerial statement as recently as last week, you Premier was advising you to overlook the Leader of upheld that tradition and practice and called the the National Party in today's debate? Leader of the National Party. I ask that you call the Leader of the National Party to ensure that the The SPEAKER - Order! Firstly, in relation to the traditions, customs and practices of the House are matter raised by the honourable member for applied consistently. Warrandyte it is the general, very necessary and appropriate practice that the Chair does not disclose Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National any conversations that take place between the Chair Party) - On the point of order, Mr Speaker, I in the capacity of Presiding Officer and any member support the issue raised by the honourable member from either side of the House or any member from for Polwarth and ask that the Chair be consistent in another place. I can advise the House that no its rulings. As has already been said, in relation to pressure, suggestion or any other matter in relation these types of statements the call has rotated from to this issue has been put to me by any member the Minister making the statement to the Leader of other than on the floor of the House by the raising of the Opposition or the responsible shadow Minister points of order. and then to the Leader of the National Party. That is how you, Mr Speaker, called matters. Secondly, the order of the call on questions before the House was the subject of an earlier ruling by me In relation to Ministerial statements last week, the and in that particular circumstance related to a Bill. Leader of the Opposition responded and I was given In subsequent rulings that has been accepted by the the next call on both occasions. If there is to be a House. change in the procedures of the House it should be a matter for discussion by the House, and honourable Honourable members would be aware that there members should not have to assume that there has have been relatively few Ministerial statements been a change in the guidelines. debated in the period in which I have been the Presiding Officer. I do not recall any previous The Minister for Tourism is quite wrong. The way occasion, following a contribution by the Leader of the call has rotated has closely followed the the Opposition or another honourable member precedents on Ministerial statements and has not delegated by him and speaking on his behalf, on changed. If the Minister was asleep when those which both a government member and the Leader of Ministerial statements were made that is not our the National Party or a person delegated by him fault; the Minister should have been listening to the have simultaneously sought the call. fairly important statements on matters in which all honourable members should have had an interest. In this case it is the understanding of the Chair that the opposition and the National Party speak with I ask you, Mr Speaker, to follow the precedent and one voice in coalition and, accordingly, the call ensure that your rulings are consistent. should alternate between opposite sides of the House. I do not uphold the point of order. Ms KIRNER (Premier) - On the point of order, Mr Speaker, I can understand the Leader of the Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National National Party wanting to try to make a response to Party) - Mr Speaker -- this statement straight after the Leader of the Opposition because the Leader of the Opposition The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the was so appalling. National Party may proceed only by leave. Is leave granted? As I understand it, and no doubt you will rule as you see fit, in relation to the last debate on a Ms KIRNER (Premier) - No. Ministerial statement during last week the government did not claim the third speaker. In this The SPEAKER - Order! Leave is refused. The case we are claiming the third speaker. Deputy Premier. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - We have Mr STOCKDALE - Mr Speaker, my point of again been reminded what an unstable group of order concerns the relevance of the remarks of the people the opposition is. The opposition is again Deputy Premier. I am illustrating the fact that they seeking to function as two separate parties and is are not only irrelevant, they are objectionable and now staging a walkout. The Leader of the slanderous and quite typical of the bullyboy tactics Opposition spoke for more than an hour and a this thug employs. quarter and did not give us a single policy. The response of opposition members when they are Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - It really is asked to behave as a coalition, as they claim to be, is breathtaking when the Leader of the Opposition to stage a walkout. The people of Victoria -- walks out of the House, remains out of the Chamber, and is followed by a number of honourable Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - On a point of members, and the honourable member for Brighton order, Mr Speaker, I put it to you that not only are jumps up and tries to deny that there has been a the remarks of the Deputy Premier irrelevant to the walkout, because until one or two walked back in a matter before the House but they are patently few minutes ago the Liberal Party was reduced to absurd. I have not had an opportunity of counting, nine members in this place. but I should not be surprised if there were more members of the coalition present in the House than It may be that they wanted to use the walkout as an members of the government. There is simply not a excuse to go to the cricket. It was suggested on this walkout. Indeed, it is clear that the Deputy Premier morning's television that two English cricketers left has failed to hold the attention of a considerable a function addressed by Gerry Connolly last night number of honourable members. because they wanted to go home and get an early night before the game. The same thing seems to be Mr Micallef interjected. applying here.

The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable The SPEAKER - Order! There is no point of member for Springvale is quite out of order in order. attempting to prevent the Chair and the House from hearing the honourable member for Brighton, who is Mr KENNAN - Thank you, Mr Speaker. The raising a point of order. Whether the honourable Leader of the Opposition is no longer here, of member for Springvale agrees with the point of course; we do not know where he is. We know that order is beside the point; if he wishes to comment on another split has occurred and we understand the the point of order he will have his opportunity when embarrassment of the honourable member for the honourable member for Brighton has concluded Brighton. Not only are opposition members his remarks. embarrassed because they cannot perform as a coalition, but also some of them were obviously very Mr STOCKDALE - It is clear there is no embarrassed when the Leader of the Opposition left walkout. This is a typical stunt by the Deputy and a number of others followed. Premier to get into Hansard irrelevant material in an attempt to slander the opposition. There is no Then we have the honourable member for Brighton walkout. The Deputy Premier's remarks were standing up saying, "No, we are a united party. It is obviously so over the top -- all okay; this is how we behave all the time!"

Honourable members interjecting. Mr J. F. McGRATH (Warmambool) -On a point of order, Mr Speaker, the debate today is about Mr STOCKDALE - I know these people are at Priority Victoria - A statement on jobs. I welcome the the end of their time in this House but -- enthusiastic reception from the other side because it is an important subject. The issue before the House The SPEAKER - Order! If the honourable at the moment is a statement handed down by the member believes there has been a breach of a Premier dealing with the fundamental issue of the particular Standing Order or custom or practice of economy in Victoria, particularly as it relates to the House, he is entitled to raise that by way of a opportunities for creating jobs, especially for young point of order. However, he is not entitled to use the people. device of a point of order to make a speech on comments by the Deputy Premier. The comments of the Deputy Premier are in no way related to the statement. He is simply denigrating MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

430 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992 members of the opposition and I call on you, on the One wonders whether or not the Leader of the point of relevance, to rule that the Deputy Premier is Opposition is still in some contact with the reality of not debating the relevant issue. I ask you to call him his own party because, looking around the back to order. Chamber, one could well ask: is the honourable member for Hawthorn a current employer? Is the Mr POPE (Minister for Labour) -On the point of honourable member for Ivanhoe a current order, Mr Speaker, the Deputy Premier has been employer? Is the honourable member for Gisborne speaking for some 3 minutes of his allotted 30 an employer now or has he ever been? Is the minutes. Thirteen minutes have elapsed, and he has honourable member for Murray Valley currently an spoken for only 3 minutes because of points of order employer? Is the honourable member for Brighton a raised by opposition members. He is being denied big employer of people? Is the honourable member his right to speak in support of the Premier's for Prahran currently an employer? Has the statement. honourable member for Glen Waverley ever employed anybody? What about Mr Birrell in The SPEAKER - Order! On the point of order, it another place? Is he an employer? What about is accepted that honourable members make some Mr Storey? Is he a big employer? passing remarks, and to that extent I do not uphold the point of order at this stage, but I ask the Deputy What about the honourable members for Balwyn Premier to turn now to comments relevant to the and Warrandyte? What about the honourable question before the Chair, which is that the member for Ballarat North who seems to be Ministerial statement be noted. infringing upon the dress code of his own Leader? I did not realise that they were all moonlighting. Mr MICALLEF (Springvale) - On a further point of order, Mr Speaker, we listened to the Leader of It really is extraordinary because we have a Leader the Opposition denigrate and assassinate the of the Opposition who, at the next election, will characters of all members of the House. I suggest present the public with a new test for electing that you have a talk to some of the opposition politicians in this State. The question for elected members on conducting themselves in a proper way governments will be how many people you happen rather than having one rule for one side of the House to be employing at the time of the election. and another rule for the other. It has reached a high-water mark since the quantum The SPEAKER - Order! There is no point of leap of May last year. I remember when he became order. Leader of the Opposition in that breathless coup. It was breathless because it did not leak out at the Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - Thank you, time, to be fair to him. His rating went right up and Mr Speaker. I am grateful for the advice because I then he came in and talked about a single idea. He am still having some difficulty adjusting to the more talked about the notion of people believing in robust forms of this House, after six years in the themselves. more sedate Upper House. The difference between the Premier's statement for Honourable members listened to the Leader of the Priority Victoria and the Prime Minister's One Opposition for about an hour and a quarter and, Nation statement and what the opposition is on again, his statement was jobs free and ideas free. He about is that the government is addressing issues in seemed to be saying a number of contradictory conjunction with the Federal government, while the things. On the one hand he said he did not want opposition is free of ideas. spending to be increased. On the other hand he seemed to be saying that the spending was not The Leader of the Opposition apparently thinks he enough; that he wanted to see the number of jobs has a philosophy. He regards himself as some sort of increased, presumably by spending. He was very philosopher and his philosophy is that opposition confused about that issue, but what he came down politicians should go out and employ people. to was introducing the novel philosophy in a democracy that governments should be run by those He also talks about confidence. There is one thing out there running their own businesses, here and that would engender confidence in the opposition now. parties and that is if the Leader of the Opposition were to resign because we know that when he became Leader of the OppOSition he had a MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 431 temporary honeymoon in the polls, and ever since Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - The thing then he has taken a quantum leap downward into that worries the business community about the the mid-20s and we know what business is saying Liberal Party is that the present Leader of the and what a lot of people in the Liberal Party are Opposition may remain as the Leader of that party. saying: in the event that a Liberal Party is elected to The business community knows there is a recipe for government, one thing that terrifies business and instability in any Liberal government and it knows other members of the Liberal Party is that Kennett the Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues will become Premier. lbat worries them enormously. constantly talk down Victoria. When one considers questions of the philosophy and role of government Mr LEIGH (Malvern) -On a point of order, one realises that the differences between the State Mr Speaker, the Minister at the table should refer to government and the opposition are the same as the the Leader of the Opposition by his correct title differences between Keating and Hewson. rather than in the manner in which he is referring to him at present. There is a form of behaviour in this Members of the opposition have no ideas or values. Chamber, and despite the fact that the socialists are The Leader of the Opposition spoke for an hour and in charge, they are still supposed to observe to it. a quarter, but honourable members did not hear one idea on how to address the recession and create jobs. Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National The Leader of the Opposition simply said he wanted Party) - On the same point of order, Mr Speaker, his supporters to be employers in their own right. the Deputy Premier advised the House earlier that he is having some trouble adjusting to the fonns of As we approach the end of the twentieth century it the House, and I suppose we can excuse him, is extraordinary that we heard a speech from the because in the other Chamber a different term of Leader of the Opposition that would have been address is used. If we give him some time to adjust, I better suited to the end of the nineteenth century. am sure he will become familiar with the proper The Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues fail titles of members in this Chamber. to understand the point that has been grasped by this government and the Federal government: I hope the Chair will not be too severe on him on productive economies of the world are not run by this occasion, but will allow him to get off with weak, non-interventionist governments that are not merely a warning and perhaps some direction from prepared to spend on infrastructure. Successful the Chair which, I am sure, will be of great countries of the world have strong governments that assistance to the honourable member. He has been make the types of investments referred to in the One here for only three and a half years and we know he Nation and Priority Victoria statements. is a relatively slow learner and it does take some time for the Deputy Premier to get up to speed. Honourable members have not heard one word from the Leader of the Opposition about However, with careful coaching, the Deputy infrastructure and the problems outlined in Priority Premier will be able to adapt to the fonns of the Victoria. I understand why the opposition wants to House. I again ask you, Mr Speaker, to be work with gimmicks and slogans because it is in the particularly understanding of this individual and difficult position of having a Leader it must keep give him the protection from the Chair that he under wraps. However, it is becoming increasingly deserves. He may be a Broadmeadows boy in the apparent to the government and people throughout electorate he represents, but he is still very much a Victoria that members of the opposition have no silvertail Ivanhoe lad. He is not used to the ideas. hurly-burly of this Chamber, and I ask you to be careful when you advise him. The ultimate insult to the people of Victoria is the decision of the opposition not to inform the public of The SPEAKER - Order! Compassionate and its policies until an election is called. The Leader of understanding though I am, I must uphold the point the Opposition has been in that position on and off of order. After three and a half years in this since October 1982. He is heading for almost a Chamber, the Deputy Premier should be aware of decade in that job, but he is still unable to formulate the fonns of the House. If he wants to refer to the any clear ideas. Leader of the Opposition he should do so by using the tenns lithe honourable member for Burwood" or This government pioneered the ideas for private lithe Leader of the Opposition". investment in public sector infrastructure. For the past twelve months this government and the current MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Premier have been floating the ideas about happy to hand over the photograph. The honourable infrastructure that have been taken up in the One member for Malvern may have heard that this Nation package. For the past year or so this afternoon in this Chamber there was a debate on the government has worked with the Committee for Priority Victoria document. Perhaps the honourable Melbourne to devise a vision for Melbourne. member walked out of the Chamber and did not notice. It is ironic that the Leader of the Opposition described the World Cup cricket as a terrific event. I Mr LEIGH (Malvern) - On a point of order, believe he was suggesting he would have liked to be Mr Speaker, except for the time during which I made there this afternoon. I understand that in some ways a brief telephone call, I have been in the Chamber for because it is a wonderful event, but the reality is that the contributions of the Premier and the Leader of the staging of the World Cup in Melbourne is an the Opposition. Unfortunately, I have also been in achievement of this government. It was this the House for most of this contribution. government under the leadership of the honourable member for Bundoora that invested $147 million in The SPEAKER - Order! There is no point of the Great Southern Stand project. The opposition order. would not have done that. At no time have members of the opposition indicated they are prepared to Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - The undertake such investments. government has established the agenda for the upgrading of Melbourne Airport, attracting an Honourable members should consider the raft of international airline to Melbourne and developing a buildings in the city in which the government has rapid transit link between the airport and the city. I invested and then reflect on the situation under the am delighted the government is able to work in a previous Uberal government. Development had harmonious relationship with the Federal stopped, and that is what the Leader of the government and its commitment to the One Nation Opposition is offering - no vision and no package. commitment to projects. Not one of the ideas I have mentioned emanated Either yesterday or the day before the honourable from the opposition. It is a joke among Ministers member for Brighton appeared on John Jost's that, regardless of what happens with the television program and Mr Jost got stuck into him opposition, one thing a Minister never has to worry asking the honourable member what he would do about is being challenged in a contest for ideas. As about the recession. The honourable member for the Minister for Community Services said during Brighton said the opposition would slash question time the other day, there is no action from expenditure and savagely cut back capital works. the opposition.

Does the opposition support the $100 million The Docklands Project is an example of the accelerated infrastructure program for the opposition's record. When that project was debated construction of police stations, courthouses and a in this House the honourable member for Ivanhoe health centre at Dandenong? and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition supported the Bill and told the government to get on with the Mr LEIGH (Malvern) - On a point of order, project. However, when the government said it Mr Speaker, the Attorney-General appears to be would go ahead with the project the opposition quoting from both copious notes and a document spokesperson on major projects, Mr Birrell, said that that is underneath a photograph. I ask whether he is it was not wanted. The opposition was instantly prepared to make the infonnation, excluding the divided on that issue. What sort of message does photograph, available to the House. that send to the people of Victoria and the business community? The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the Attorney-General to clarify whether he is quoting The business community knows the plans of the from a document and, if so, whether he is prepared government and what it will do. However, the to make it available. opposition is all over the place and is totally unpredictable. Any members of the opposition who Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - I was know anything about business know that businesses quoting from a document called Priority Victoria, and like certainty and predicability. That is the last thing I am quite happy to make it available. I am also MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday. 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 433 they get from the opposition and the first thing they comes from a one-liner delivered at the ALP State get from the government. conference last weekend by the Premier when she said there should be one nation and one priority; she In the past twelve months the Premier has put tried to tag the policy already announced by the forward a range of policies that are now embodied Prime Minister. in the One Nation and Priority Victoria packages. The government has been consistent, but all that has Certainly there is much disillusionment even within been heard from members of the opposition is the trade union movement and among the working criticism. It would be interesting to reflect on how men and women of Victoria. When the Premier Melbourne would appear now if the opposition had entered that conference to make her triumphant been in power for the past ten years. The Liberal announcement about her "One State" priority, which Party would not have spent money on capital works she was to follow up in the House this week - the or development. Ministerial statement we are now dealing with - it must have been a slap in the face for her when the Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National delegates from the largest Victorian trade union Party) - The Premier's statement today is a walked out of the hall. That demonstrates the desperate one. In summing up her document the frustration of the trade union movement about how Premier said it was now time to talk about the the government has lost its way. I believe almost 30 future, and not the past. With the record of this delegates to the conference from the Shop, government over the past ten years no-one would Distributive and Allied Employees Association, the blame it for not wanting to focus on what has largest union in Australia, voted with their feet. happened during that time: not to discuss State Bank Victoria, Tricontinental Corporation Ltd, the They are dissatisfied with the way in which the Victorian Economic Development Corporation or Premier has run this State and that view is shared by WorkCare. The government does not want that. many, if not all, working Victorians. There is an obvious feeling that the Labor members in Mr E. R. Smith - And Nunawading. Parliament, particularly the 46 members opposite, are relying very much on being pimps. They feel Mr McNAMARA - Those scandals and other betrayed and consider the government has sold matters! It would not want to discuss the sacked them out. This statement does nothing to turn Premier, the sacked Deputy Premier or the fact that around the fundamentals in Victoria to ensure a we now have a third Treasurer. The Premier does more positive and real future for our children. not want to focus on those issues, nor does she want Victorians to focus on those matters. In one way it The other disappointing aspect about the statement would be almost an advertisement about a guilty is that it is only half a document. We have heard party, thereby refocusing Victoria's attention on who nothing about revenue - only about expenditure. is to blame for the condition in which the State finds During question time this week the House heard itself. The government wants to perform a charade from the new bumbling Treasurer that we will have and thereby conceal those past events. the problems with the Victorian Equity Trust (VET) resolved and that the associated costs will be passed The government has no mandate. Its leadership does back to the various instrumentalities forming part of not now have the policies that were put forward to the VET. Every Victorian will pay more for those the public prior to the 1988 election. The only costs in their basic services - for example, necessary measure is one that will ensure Victoria electricity. The authorities will have to find about reaches a position of recovery - to go to the polls $630 million from their own resources. and allow the public to have a say. When Victorians have a say as to where they want Victoria to go in Obviously that money must be borrowed or the the future, at least two-thirds of honourable government will conduct a fire sale of the assets of members opposite will be removed after the next those authorities. Either way, the Victorian public election. Victorians are finding it difficult to wait for will be sold out. The Premier has announced no that opportunity; at that time they will have the policy in this statement about how Victoria will deal opportunity of saying precisely where they think we with this $62 000 million of debt. That is a rather should be heading. fundamental issue when one considers that only ten years ago the Victorian debt was about $11 billion­ The Premier said her jobs statement has substance and it had taken nearly 150 years to reach that figure! and does not depend on one-liners. Clearly, it all MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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This government is attempting to have one final challenge to bring Victoria back from those thrust at the tape, in one final desperate measure; circumstances. this is one final attempt to beg, borrow or steal to put future generations into hock to save political Victoria needs to start to build on some solid scalps. The Victorian public is aware of what the foundations; it should not be building on the flawed government is on about and that it is motivated only foundations that the Premier's statement has relied by its own selfishness and greed to stay in office and upon. The Premier's statement is the Christmas ensure its political survival. stocking; she is running around throwing a few trinkets here and there but not tackling the major, Mr Gude - The honourable member for Bendigo fundamental problems. The government is doing West says that is right. nothing to restructure the State's public sector; there is no attempt in the Premier's statement to tackle Mr McNAMARA - The honourable member for that issue. Bendigo West nods in agreement; he will be one of the first Labor members to hit the fence at the next Nothing is being done to cut back the cost of election and he will be accompanied by more than a government and decide how government services score of his mates. After the next election we will be can be more efficiently delivered. There is nothing in lucky to see more than 15 or 16 survivors from the the statement that deals with that issue. Nothing is present 46 members opposite. You, Mr Speaker, being one to cut the costs to industry, such as payroll could be one who does not survive and you know tax and other taxes. The Premier makes the point why the problems have occurred - because the that payroll tax can be addressed only in the broader mismanagement of this State has been so horrific context. The government is not talking about taking and at such an unprecedented level that any the opportunities that are there now. incompetent former government of any Australian State in the past 200 years pales into insignificance There is a real opportunity under the Federal by comparison. coalition's Fightback package. At the stroke of a pen it would wipe out pay-roll tax once and for all. There In decades past Victoria was the pride of the nation; has never been a commitment by any government or it was the heartbeat of manufacturing industries. opposition for such an undertaking. Such a move Victoria was the pride of primary industries with its would break the burden of taxes on individual areas of agriculture. It was the major State for enterprises. The coalition will remove fuel taxes, primary produce, particularly dairying. The canning which will substantially cut the cost of fuel for industry was based on the magnificent orchard country people. Until that is done, the disastrous industry, and milk production companies based fuel costs will continue. their operations on Victoria's fine dairy industry. Victoria had a solid manufacturing and agricultural I urge the Premier to stop playing petty politics and base; it had solid administration of the forest and accept the points in the statement that offer real mineral resources development industries. Victoria incentives. Time and again she has told us that we had everything! need to do something about payroll tax, the cost of services and so on. She has not been concerned In ten short years this government has destroyed about the cost to country people but has said that that heritage, not only for present Victorians but also payroll tax should be tackled. The Federal coalition for our children and our grandchildren. It will take a is prepared to tackle that issue. What do we have? massive change in the attitude of governments in the Deaf and dumb. You have heard nothing about it future to hold Victoria back from the edge of the and are not prepared to comment. precipice because, as our Prime Minister said in his previous calling, we are about to head down the The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable road to become a banana republic. member should address the Chair.

The government has taken every opportunistic short Mr McNAMARA - The Premier has said that cut, every easy-money trick, every funny-money issue should be addressed but when the opportunity deal, every pea-and-thimble scheme - it has tried has presented itself not one word has been the lot! It has appeased every industrial group that mentioned. has exerted any sort of pressure on it and, in the process, has destroyed the basic fabric of Victoria. I turn to deregulation of the labour market. The The coalition government will face a massive Deputy Leader of the Opposition has raised this MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 435 issue on many occasions. Deregulation of the labour instigated the Harrison inquiry. The report market and workplace agreements with employers recommended a number of major reforms to resolve and employees must take place if there are to be the industrial problems and return to work-based reforms to our manufacturing base. The government agreements to ensure greater productivity in the is not prepared to do that; it is a government that industry. takes its marching orders from the likes of Wally Curran and John Halfpenny. The Premier forwarded that report to the Trades Hall COWlcil to enable Mr Curran to white out pages The coalition will ensure there is a vetting of any of that document. documentation or legislation introduced for regulation of the labour market. Before Christmas Mr Steggall - Eleven pages disappeared. last year SPC Ltd was in trouble. Employees of that company sat down with the management because Mr McNAMARA - It was a watered-down they recognised that if that business were to succeed document. We should all be focusing on what is it had to make a profit. That was the bottom line. good for Victoria; on how to make our industries efficient by producing goods to replace imports and The union representatives through their shop aiming to have those industries export their stewards did a fantastic job in negotiating an products. If that can be done it will lower input agreement with the employers. The Secretary of the costs. Productivity schemes must be introduced with Trades Hall COWlcil tried to use every measure to workplace agreements to give the work force more skittle that agreement. When the management of encouragement. Workers generally in the State are SPC came to Melbourne to discuss the matter with committed to work and would be more productive if the Trades Hall COWlcil, the council said, ''We'll talk they were allowed to achieve those objectives to management but we don't want to talk to those without being obstructed by the likes of the Currans shop stewards; keep them out of the room". The and the Halfpennys. THC ordered the SPC shop stewards out of the discussion because they were terrible fellows for I have talked with a number of trade union leaders having taken a practical approach by recognising and, in the main, they realise that industry has to that the business had to work and that everybody make a profit. If industry does not make a profit it was in the same boat. This COWltry will survive only does not exist, and if it does not exist union if it takes such measures. members do not have jobs. A number of union leaders will never recognise that fact. At every turn the government panders to the militant trade unionists who are out of step with the I was disgusted when the Prime Minister came to working man and always out of step with many of Melbourne to talk to the Premier about what should the other trade union leaders. be done to reform Victoria. He had the opportunity of meeting a number of leading business entities and I turn to the meat industry. The coalition recognised people in manufacturing industries. The Premier the problem in that industry. Some years ago there and the Treasurer arranged to meet an individual were twelve export abattoirs in the State and only a whom they said represented the working movement year later there was only one. Something had to be in the State. Who was it? They picked out Wally done for the thousands of meatworkers who lost Curran as one individual who represented the trade their jobs throughout country Victoria, the western union movement. suburbs and other industrial suburbs in the metropolitan area. One can imagine the reaction of the Bill Keltys and the like of this world who have a more enlightened More than 2000 meatworkers lost their jobs because and practical approach to where Australia should be of the industrial attitude of the likes of Wally going. The Premier and the Treasurer selected Wally Curran, a confidant of the Premier. The honourable Curran to represent the interests of the working men member for Essendon, the former Minister for and women of Victoria. Agriculture, instigated an inquiry. I find the situation incredible. I ask: why did the Mr Gude - What happened to him? Premier and the Treasurer not say to the Prime Minister, "Come up to Shepparton and talk to the Mr McNAMARA - I understand he was SPC shop stewards; they are the people who will tell removed. The former Minister for Agriculture you about work-based agreements"? An industry in MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Shepparton was in its death throes yet in the space remarks of Mr Ian Howard, General Manager of of twelve months productivity has increased by 25 Australian Paper Manufacturers, Gippsland. In the per cent. The people who worked in the industry Latrobe Valley Express of 13 March he is quoted as had to bear some cuts in their entitlements but saying: before Christmas last year they were paid almost $1.5 million in bonuses because they had produced There are no plans in the foreseeable future - if ever - after they were given the opportunity to produce. to expand in the style the government speaks of.

Until the Premier is prepared to tackle those issues The statement was made after the government and throwaway the controls and the commitments announced that $800 million would be spent on a she has made in the past to people like Wally Curran new project at Maryvale. Mr Howard said also that: and John Halfpenny, Victoria has absolutely no hope of recovery. Steve Crabb picked that up in the press release announcing East Gippsland (paper mill) wouldn't be It was interesting to see the former Premier, the going ahead, to say there was a possibility of an $800 honourable member for Bundoora, standing outside million project at APM Maryvale mill. The government the door of the Chamber. Obviously he was feeling continues to talk that up, and never on public record uncomfortable because he was the person who anywhere will you find from the APM a level of such started Victoria on this track. That work has only commitment. been continued with no change in direction. Honourable members have heard various Ministers Mr Howard continued: announce that Victoria is on a new track and a plan exists for dragging the State out of the mire. What But what we did say is we'd spend $30-$40 million has followed has been the introduction of another totalling $154 million over a period between now and debt reduction scheme, just another scheme put in the next three to four years. place to ensure that Victoria's insolvency is complete. That is certainly a vast difference from the $800 Mr Gavin interjected. million referred to by the then Minister for Conservation and Environment, now the Minister Mr McNAMARA - I respond to the interjection for Tourism. of the honourable member for Coburg, although I understand he is no longer in Coburg but has shut Mr Howard referred to the major inhibiting factors down his office and deserted his constituency. His in making an investment of the order of $800 action is similar to that proposed to be taken by the million. He said that the lack of resource security Minister for Tourism who plans to desert this State. resulted in an absence of confidence among He will convert his lump sum payment into lire at investors. He is quoted in the same article as saying: the earliest opportunity and leave for Tuscany. He will be off, and those who are left can sink or swim; The bureaucracy, the red tape, the green tape and the they can look after themselves! advice of environmentalists is such that Australia hasn't got a decent project off the ground in recent We must focus clearly on the wealth producers of history. this State. The resources of the State are Significant. We must start to focus on the value of primary Of my total time every day, 60 to 70 per cent goes into industry and recognise it as one of our core fighting off bureaucracy and people who just want to industries. We must consider the value-added area. close us down. Most industries spend their time fighting their competitors; we spend all this time I invite honourable members to reflect on forest fighting amongst ourselves. industries. The government has a policy that involves continuing to put fences around forests and On the question of resource security Mr Howard create parks. It continues to announce that such said: areas are appropriate to be locked off and it continues to ensure that the forest industries in this Daily we face this resource security thing, which is not State have no resource agreements. just security for $100 million future expansion projects, but security for tomorrow's wood. The result is an absence of enthusiasm to invest in the future. I refer honourable members to some MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Mr Howard issued a blunt warning that in such a this State? The answer is, of course: it is going to do climate APM's continued operation in Victoria could just the opposite. not be guaranteed. That is the sort of result that comes from the government's actions: an absence of As I said, investors must be encouraged to come to confidence to invest in industry in this State. Victoria not only from elsewhere in Australia but also from overseas so that a solid investment base Honourable members have heard the current Prime can be established in this State. Minister refer to the need to do something about export replacement and our balance of payments. I Something must be done about the youth of the remind honourable members that timber is State. I ask: what has been done for Victoria's young Australia's third-largest import, to the value of people? The answer is: we have 46 per cent of them $2500 million. As I said, the Victorian government unemployed. takes the view that the way to address that issue is to continue to put fences around areas and lock An honourable member interjected. them off. No wonder we are going backwards! Mr McNAMARA - The unemployment rates in Honourable members must ensure that industry is Coburg are not healthy and that is one of the reasons offered the opportunity of undertaking reforms that why the honourable member has departed from will make it competitive. I ask: why is the Coburg. government not doing something about WorkCare and work practices? WorkCare premiums have Victoria should start to focus on the future and the increased by 40 per cent but the Premier will not people who will provide the entrepreneurial flair acknowledge that payroll tax should be eliminated and the tertiary graduates of the future. What have once and for all. Her current position is contrary to we done? This year in excess of 20 000 graduates the one she has held in the past. who qualified for tertiary education were told there were no places for them. This is part of Labor's I ask also: why does the government not do policy in the clever country. There is no future for something positive to encourage industry in general 20 000 young Victorians because they cannot get into and the mining industry in particular? The tertiary education. That is a fundamental problem government is only loading additional cost on all that should be addressed. industries in this State. We need to recognise that the tourism and Mr Gavin - Such as? hospitality industry is a seven-day-a-week industry, an industry that extends over weekends. It is being Mr McNAMARA - The now departed member crippled by penalty rates. At the moment the for Coburg interjects. I direct his attention to the industry has an application before the Industrial agreement on the SEC Loy Yang B power station. Relations Commission because it wants to vary the The government has said, '''This is the figure; this is award to recognise that this is an industry that what you have to pay for Loy Yang B. You give us a works a full seven days a week and make reforms price you can deliver tariffs on over the next 40 such as those that were created at the Shepparton years, based on going in at that price". It is Preserving Company and generate jobs for the youth. recognised by'people in the industry that the price asked by the government is apprOximately twice the The tourism industry is a great employer of young price for which such an investment could be built. people, particularly girls. We need to focus on that. What is the Minister for Labour doing about that The result is that Victorians are being locked in to application? Does he support it? Has the Premier paying an inflated price for electricity for the next 40 made a statement about the issue? years! All Victorians will pay that inflated price, not only manufacturers. Farmers, people who run Mr Evans - Young girls are being employed in irrigation plants, people who run factories and every brothels! householder in this State will be locked in to paying an inflated price for electricity - for 40 years! Mr Gavin - That's tourism!

I ask: do members of the government think that will Mr McNAMARA - The honourable member for do something for investment in this State? Will it do Coburg is talking about the brothel industry being a something to ensure an increase in production in tourism industry! ADJOURNMENT

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Mr Gavin - I didn't say that; he did! he let him find his own way? Yesterday we saw the poor Treasurer floundering after the Leader of the Mr McNAMARA - You said it! Opposition refused leave and he did not know what to do. There was the poor ex-Treasurer knowing The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the what he should have done but letting him wallow in National Party without assistance. it. He got himself into this mess so the honourable member for Bnmswick let him try to get himself out Mr McNAMARA - We need to recognise that of it. Didn't it show up? tourism has great potential, even under the administration of our expatriate Glaswegian and We need to recognise the basic problems of Victoria potential departee for Tuscany. We need to do and its basic strengths. We need to ensure that the something positive in the tourism industry and rural sector which has been suffering for the past ten recognise the real value that new investment can years is supported. This government thought create. If people build new tourism projects the Melbourne finished at the end of the tram tracks. benefits to the building industry spread across the The government treated country Victoria with State. That is what happened in Queensland. disdain. Everyone in Victoria will benefit from the boom in the tourism industry. We need to recognise that fundamental changes are required to turn Victoria around. The jobs statement Tasmania has approximately 10 per cent of the will not achieve that but, clearly, a change in population of Australia but its current tourism government will. budget is twice that of Victoria's. That is how poorly we are doing. We need to focus on and try to sell the Debate adjourned on motion of Mr ROPER natural assets of the State. There has been no (Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary coordinated approach. How can there be when this Education and Training). government is carrying on the sorts of activities that could have gone on in the court of Caligula! Various Debate adjourned until next day. Ministers and backbenchers are taking turns to knife each other. ADJOURNMENT

Who is sitting at the table? The latest recipient of a Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, stiletto in the back, the honourable member for Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I move: Bnmswick. How dearly he would have liked to stay Treasurer. I know how you must feel, Tom! You That the House do now adjourn. must feel you have been thrown out like an old dish rag. We thought you were bad but we have seen Brothel in Moorabbin your successor! Mr LEIGH (Malvern) - I wish to bring a matter The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Delzoppo) - to the attention of the Parliament and I hope the Order! The honourable member should address the Minister will take some action. Chair. An honourable member interjected. Mr McNAMARA - Through you, Mr Acting Speaker, we have seen the successor, the honourable Mr LEIGH - It is the Minister responsible for member for Northcote, and we think we might have brothels. been harsh in our judgment of the honourable member for Bnmswick. He would be top of the class The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable if the rest of the class were of the calibre of the member should indicate the portfolio. honourable member for Northcote. Mr LEIGH - I raise this matter for the attention The honourable member for Bnmswick must grit his of the Minister for Planning and Housing. The teeth at the performance of the new Treasurer, community of the City of Moorabbin is, especially as he knows he could do better. The wlfortunately, faced with the prospect of having a former Treasurer must feel like prompting his brothel on its doorstep, which neither the council colleague, but I am sure he is tom. Should he go and nor a substantial number of local residents desire. help someone who so cruelly knifed him, or should ADJOURNMENT

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Because of the government's failure to take action to I suggest, therefore, that you advise the Manager, allow local municipalities to decide whether brothels Town Planning, of the City of Moorabbin that the most are allowed to operate within their boundaries, the appropriate course is for the matter to be raised with City of Moorabbin looks like being forced to spend the local government representative on the committee, $10 000 at the next local government election to hold the Municipal Association of Victoria. a referendum to let the local community decide whether it wants a brothel established in the Members of the government, from the municipality. Attorney-General to local members, have abrogated their responsibility in this matter. 'That failure shows a lack of responsibility by several members of the government. I quote from More than 500 people in the area have signed a documents that I shall make available to the House. petition expressing their opposition to the The first letter is from the Manager, Town Planning, establishment of a brothel within the municipality, City of Moorabbin, and is dated 21 June 1991. The yet the honourable member for Bentleigh and her letter was sent to every local member, including colleagues have done nothing. They are obviously Labor members such as the Honourable Peter happy to see local people put through the trauma of Spyker, the honourable member for Mentone, and having a brothel they do not want established in Mrs Ann Barker, the honourable member for their area. Bentleigh. The letter states in part: The government's cowardice in failing to proclaim Council is seeking your support in this matter for a all the sections of the Prostitution Regulation Act, number of reasons including the right to be a and its failure to allow the people of Moorabbin responsible authority that has control over use and their democratic right to make choices affecting their development within its municipality. futures, will cause the spending of $10 000 on a referendum - all because the government has been The lack of brave government members willing to too gutless to give the local community the right to reply to the correspondence is somewhat striking. decide. On 9 July 1991 the honourable member for Bentleigh acknowledged the letter sent to her by the local I ask the Minister responsible to take action to save council. In her correspondence she said she had the ratepayers having to spend money on a referred the matter to the Attorney-General for his referendum and to give the local community an attention and response; and the Attorney-General opportunity to decide whether it wants a brothel subsequently wrote to her. operating within its boundaries. The brothel could be put in a commercial development and have a bed It seems the honourable member for Bentleigh was tax imposed on it, but that is another issue. too frightened to support her government's policy, which was to refuse to allow the local community The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable the right to decide whether it wanted a brothel in the member's time has expired. area. WorkCare anomaly The Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training will be aware that the Mr JASPER (Murray Valley) - I raise a matter opposition sought to have the Prostitution for the attention of the Minister responsible for Regulation Bill amended to give local councils the WorkCare, but in his absence I refer it to the power to make their own decisions. Minister for Employment, Post- Secondary Education and Training. As well as the honourable member for Bentleigh, I am informed that the honourable member for The matter concerns a border anomaly in the Clayton would not tell his local council what his operations of WorkCare, which has been brought to position was, other than to refer the matter to the my attention by a local employer who lives at Attorney-General. Cobram-Barooga, which is situated on the New South Wales-Victoria border. The employer, who The Attorney-General wrote to the honourable lives in New South Wales, employs apprentices to member for Bentleigh on 6 September 1991, saying: whom he pays New South Wales rates of pay. Some of the apprentices have undertaken apprenticeships at the local TAPE college. ADJOURNMENT

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Because the employer works as a contractor for the people and would develop the skills of local Department of Planning and Housing, he is obliged musicians, because the 30 kilometres from Knox to to give an assurance that a Victorian WorkCare levy the Victoria College of the Arts is a long way for is paid for all of his employees who work in Victoria. young people to travel.

The Victorian government gives a rebate to A number of our secondary schools have school employers who pay WorkCare levies for bands and school orchestras. The setting up of a apprentices. But this employer, who pays community-based symphony orchestra would bring WorkCover levies in New South Wales, is also together those young people and experienced local obliged to pay Victorian WorkCare levies for his musicians. apprentices - yet he does not receive a rebate for his WorkCare payments. In other words he pays a Mr Burns suggests the orchestra rehearse on a double workers compensation levy for all regular basis and perform the works of great employees. Not only does he have to pay such levies composers such as Mozart and Beethoven. That on both sides of the border, but he is ineligible to would be a wonderful thing for the young people of receive the rebate that is given to Victorian Knox, who do not have the same access to the arts as employers. those who live in inner urban areas.

I ask the Minister to pass on to his colleagues the Other metropolitan areas such as Malvern, which Minister responsible for WorkCare and the Minister has been deserted by its member, have symphony for Finance the need for this problem to be urgently orchestras. Preston, South Melbourne and addressed. Maroondah have local symphony orchestras that have been performing regularly for many years. The Victorian government should make appropriate representations to the Border Anomalies Committee. I hope the Minister can look, along with the The committee has done a great deal of work in council - I am approaching the council on examining and eliminating many anomalies. I ask Mr Burns's proposals - to see whether a meeting the Minister to resolve this anomaly together with can be held with the Minister and with local his colleagues -and, indeed, the Premier. In 1978 a musically inclined people. It is highly recommended former Premier of Victoria, Sir Rupert Hamer, was and would be good for the community. one of the first to begin negotiations on the establishment of the Border Anomalies Committee. Women's Health Service, BarwonlSouth­ Western Region The problem can be solved if the government takes positive action by working with its counterparts in Mr I. W. SMITH (Polwarth) - I direct to the New South Wales and with members of the attention of the Minister for Employment, committee to eliminate the need for the double Post-Secondary Education and Training a matter payment of WorkCare levies. Apart from anything that I ask him to take up with his colleagues the else the anomaly acts as a disincentive for employers Minister for Finance and the Minister for Health who work along or on both sides of the relating to the Women's Health Service, Victorian-New South Wales border. Barwon/South-Western Region, for which there is a government grant of $500 000. The money is not Community symphony orchestra equitably spent throughout the region. Approximately $80 000 is available to the office at Mrs HIRSH (Wantima) - The matter I direct to Camperdown and the two people who are the attention of the Minister for the Arts concerns a employed there, one full-time and one on a part-time constituent of mine, Robert Bums, who has written basis, but the remaining $420000 is appropriated in to me suggesting that a community-based Geelong. It is a grossly disproportionate use of the symphony orchestra be established in the Knox money. However, that is not the problem about municipality, which would be of particular benefit which I have had complaints made to me. to young people in the area. I have raised with the local council the posSibility of establishing a youth The problem has been that a Ms Lyn Hatton, the orchestra. former coordinator of the service in Geelong, and her assistant, Michelle Ellis, who have both been The establishment of a community-based symphony dismissed for what has been alleged to me as a orchestra would be a good thing for our young multiple of reasons: firstly, questionable financial ADJOURNMENT

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 441 management of the resources given by the Oak Park railway station government; lack of accountability; sheer incompetence in their professionalism and Mr THOMSON (Pascoe Vale) - I direct to the administration; and abuse of the privileges of sick Minister for Transport, through the Minister for leave and other similar employment rights. Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training, the need for rebuilding the Oak Park The collective agrees to supply services to the railway station, which was first damaged by fire in Women's Health Service on behalf of the State, and May 1989 when the main building was burnt, and there is a written health agreement with the State. by a second fire which burnt the area used by the The collective dismissed Lyn Hatton and Michelle newsagent for selling newspapers and magazines. Ellis, but their reinstatement was sought by the The matter is urgent because people who use the acting regional director of health, Mr Arthur Rogers. railway station have had to put up with It seems those three people, Ms Hatton, Michelle inconvenience in purchasing railway tickets. Ellis and Arthur Rogers have something in common: Although the area has been boarded up it can hardly their membership of the local branch of the be described as safe. It is important that the facility Australian Labor Party in Geelong. be reconstructed for the convenience of commuters who use the station and the staff who provide Rather than see these two women out of work, it is various services. alleged that they are now employed by the Queenscliff community health centre to investigate I have contacted the Minister for Transport about alternative women's health services and that that this matter - indeed, successive Ministers for facility is under the management and control of Transport - and in December 1990, in conjunction MrRogers. with interested local groups, I organised a deputation to the Minister for Transport in What is sought from the Ministers by the people December 1990. I am concerned that sufficient who have complained to me - namely, the rest of resources have not been provided to enable the the people involved in the management collective station to be rebuilt. providing health services to the region - is that, because they are concerned about the accountability Local community groups have taken an interest in for public funds, they want the policies and the station and have been supportive of the procedures to maintain proper accountability to be rebuilding program. Last year a community-based strictly observed. project was established to clean graffiti from the walls of the station and to plant Australian native They say to me that the management collective is an plants. Local schools were used to provide murals elected body responsible for the day-to-day running and artwork that were hung in the subway and and financial accountability of the service. They railway station precinct. It was an effective want the provision of a high quality regional service community project. The Oak Park Neighbourhood for which the collective is funded, which is a major Watch is a close supporter of the railway station, as concern of the collective. It should be noted that are Glenroy Uons and local schools such as St Health Department Victoria's regional office has Francis de Sales, Oak Park Secondary College and consistently emphasised Geelong as the focus of the Pascoe Vale Girls Secondary College. The principal service. As it is a regional body people feel the funds and children at those schools have voluntarily have been inequitably applied. prepared paintings and painted murals around the sta tion precinct. The people involved have not been appropriately skilled and they feel that political interference and I am pleased that the Public Transport Corporation patronage have significantly disadvantaged the has prOVided ongoing support in eliminating the service. The collective requests that a proper inquiry graffiti on the station and has been active in be conducted to ensure accountability and that a ensuring that graffiti is cleaned off immediately it service is provided in accordance with the wishes of reappears. The end result of this work is that the the community, which is what the money was station is in considerably better condition than it was granted for. some years ago when the graffiti problem was at its most serious.

The fact remains the station has not been reconstructed since the fire. That sends the wrong ADJOURNMENT

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message to commuters and the travelling public. It is and Templestowe but no funding has been returned important that railway stations project a clean, to the area. modern image. I am aware that if the station were to be reconstructed there is a risk of future fires, which Because this is the second last block of land in the is a problem for the Ministry, given that it acts as its area it is important that it is used for community own insurer, but it is important that the station be services. rebuilt. I am confident that the amount of support provided by the community over the past year I ask that the Minister decline to approve the sale of bodes well for the future of the station if it is the land. The community wants the land retained for reconstructed. aged care facilities because it is situated in front of the nursing home and day care centre, and that use Land in Templestowe would complement that facility. There are myriad uses for the land because of the rapidly growing Mr PERRIN (Bulleen) - I direct to the attention number of aged persons in the area. Public facilities of the Minister for Community Services, who is the should be retained rather than having the land sold representative in this place of the Minister for off. Health, an area of vacant land at 371-395 Manningham Road, Templestowe, which was part Once the land is sold it will be gone forever and that of a larger block of land of approximately 7 hectares will leave only one parcel of land in Blackburn Road, that was reserved for the construction of a public East Doncaster left in the City of Doncaster and hospital for the Doncaster and Templestowe Templestowe, which has 110 ()()() residents. communities. If the Minister has decided to sell the land I urge her Historically it was decided that the City of Doncaster not to do so and if she has not made a decision I ask and Templestowe did not need a public hospital and that she reserve it. The land for the nursing home so the parcel of land was split into three lots. Lot 1, was leased to the City of Doncaster and comprising 1.4 hectares, is vacant. Lot 2 was used for Templestowe and it is possible that another body an ambulance headquarters in Doncaster and lot 3 could lease this land at a reasonable cost for aged was used for a 6O-bed nursing home and day care care facilities. centre, which is prOviding excellent service to the area. Rezoning of industrial site in Keilor

Lot 1 was offered to the Doncaster and Templestowe Mr SEITZ (Keilor) - I direct the attention of the council but it had no money to buy it and was Minister for Planning and Housing to the problem of unable to accept the offer. I understand the land is an old industrial subdivision in the vicinity of presently being rezoned to residential C. There are Sunshine Avenue and Stenson Road, Keilor. I ask the plans to subdivide it for housing. Minister to examine the proposals for the area.

A question on notice was asked in the other place A residential area was developed next to this regarding all Health Department Victoria land not industrial area. There is one parcel of land in presently being used. It was answered on 12 particular that requires a Ministerial decision. The November 1991. In respect of the parcel of land in council, which is divided on the issue, has Manningham Road, Lower Templestowe, it was said approached me about the extension of the permit for that Ministerial approval was being sought as to industrial development. Another council group does whether it would be sold off. As of last November not want the permit extended because it wants it the Minister had not approved the sale of the land. rezoned for housing.

The community wants to keep the land and it has I ask the Minister and the Urban Land AuthOrity to asked that I endeavour to save it because it is the examine the matter and make a decision on whether second last piece of vacant land in the area and it is it is suitable land for a housing estate. I ask that this important that it is retained. We have had a be dealt with by the department rather than having a succession of sales of land over the past ten years private developer involved. The area adjoins a including railway sites, three police station sites, six quarry, and problems would arise if housing were school sites and open space. Some $30 million worth developed while it was still operating. If the quarry of land has been sold off in the City of Doncaster were to close in six to eight years it is also important to know how the land will be rehabilitated and ADJOURNMENT

Wednesday, 25 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 443 whether it will be suitable for housing in the future. issue relating to the problems of older subdivisions A government road is situated on one side and which continue to plague councils and residents Sunshine A venue, a major arterial road, is located on around the State. I shall direct that matter to the the other side. attention of the Minister for Planning and Housing.

The whole area should be examined from a planning The honourable member for Bulleen raised a matter, perspective and only a government department which I suspect relates to the Minister for Finance, would be in a position to amalgamate the land concerning the sale of land in his area. It is holdings, which include part of a government road interesting that when sales of assets occur in their that must be rezoned for use as a housing electorates the dry accountants become quite development. Another road in the area is not a differently minded. I shall direct that matter to the through road. The community is also concerned attention of the Minister for Finance. about a property with a creek running through it. The honourable member for Pascoe Vale referred to I ask that the Minister have the Urban Land transport in his electorate and I shall direct that to Authority examine the feaSibility of the area the attention of the Minister for Transport. becoming a residential zone. The current owners have permits for commercial and industrial The honourable member for Polwarth referred to an development and the council has extended the issue of disputation between the committee of permits for that project. A Ministerial decision will management and employees in the Barwon region. I have to be made because a road easement would am not aware of the problems he raised, but have to be rezoned if this package of land were to unfortunately in a community-based organisation become a residential area. Naturally the community there can be a falling out, and obviously that has is opposed to the establishment of an industrial area occurred in this situation. I do not know whether it in this vicinity. I have sympathy for it and I urge the was back-stabbing, as the honourable member for Minister to examine the matter. Malvern suggests, but I shall direct that to the Minister for Finance for attention. Responses The honourable member for Murray Valley raised Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - The WorkCare payments, and I shall direct that to the honourable member for Wantirna raised a matter attention of the Minister for Finance. that was raised with her by a Mr Robert Burns about a proposal for a community-based symphony The honourable member for Malvern, who seems to orchestra in Knox for the purpose of developing the have a wide interest in brothels, no longer just in his skills of musicians residing in the Knox area and own electorate but now brothels all over performing works by a number of well-known Melbourne -- Australian and European composers. Mr Leigh interjected. I thank the honourable member for raiSing it with me. I know she has an ongoing interest in Mr ROPER - The honourable member says he community arts. The community arts programs are never goes inside them. I cannot attest to the truth or extremely important. This is an ambitious program falsity of that. As the honourable member is aware, and I am more than happy to consider it. Of course councils have powers in relation to certain planning the Wangaratta Jazz Festival is also a successful requirements and if the arrangements are not program supported by this government as are many adequate applicants have the capacity to appeal to other community arts initiatives. I shall bring this to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. I shall direct the attention of the Ministry, which will be able to that to the attention of the relevant Minister to seek a forward to Mr Burns and to the honourable member response. for Wantirna the guidelines for applications under the community arts programs so that a proper Motion agreed to. application can be formulated. House adjourned 5.54 p.m. Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training) - The honourable member for Keilor raised a planning ADJOURNMENT

444 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 25 March 1992 QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Thursday, 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 445

Thursday, 26 March 1992 out of how they say they will reduce debt. The Leader of the Opposition says $8 billion in a one-liner. What would that do to capital works expenditure in this State; what would it do to the sale of assets that people in this State want to keep, The SPEAKER (Hon. Ken Coghill) took the chair at and what would it do for jobs? Nothing. 10.34 a.m. and read the prayer. Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National Party) - Will the Treasurer advise the House why QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE the government is now claiming that the deficit will blowout by $130 million, and what has changed since last week when the Treasurer was claiming BUDGET DEFICIT that the Budget would come in on target? Honourable members interjecting. Mr KENNETf (Leader of the Opposition) - I refer the Premier to her speech yesterday which The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the honourable predicted a blow-out on the Budget deficit of member for Springvale to remain silent and approximately 1 per cent of total outlays - that is honourable members on my left to remain silent. $130 million -and to her statement to the House on Tu~~ay which predicted a blow-out on the Budget Mr A. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - Only in defiCIt of 1 per cent of the financing transaction - J. Victoria could we be having this debate; only in that is less than $15 million - and I ask: which Victoria would we have an opposition -- statement is correct, or is the Premier, like her Treasurer,co~? Honourable members interjecting. Honourable members interjecting. The SPEAKER - Order! I will call the Treasurer again when the House comes to order. It was The SPEAKER - Order! The latter part of the impossible for the Chair and most honourable question is out of order. members to hear the Treasurer's reply. Ms KIRNER (Premier) - It is clear from the Mr A. SHEEHAN - Only in Victoria would an statements that have been made that there will be J. opposition be prepared to walk away from the issue including this package, a Budget blow-out of ' of unemployment in the way it has done for the past $130 million which is largely a drop in revenue, as twelve months. In no other system would an was acknowledged last week. I make no apologies opposition be prepared to say it has absolutely for determining that, rather than not spending the nothing to contribute to the debate. It is incumbent ~ ~llion, we will put it towards jobs for young on all Australians involved in the political process to Vlctonans and for people who are waiting for jobs. put forward their thoughts and policies on how we They will be waiting one heck of a long time if they should deal-- have to wait for the no-jobs policy of the Leader of the Opposition. Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National Party) -On a point of order, Mr Speaker, on the The Leader of the Opposition knows, the shadow question of relevance I ask you to direct the Minister Treasurer knows, in fact the whole financial back to the question I asked. He now seems to be community knows that the June economic statement debating the issue in his normal muddle-headed clearly spells out how were are going to pull the wombat fashion and I ask you to direct him back to Budget back into the black over three years. the question. Honourable members interjecting. The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the National Party -- The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the Leader of the Opposition in particular not to interject and not to Mrs Hirsh interjected. lead others into interjecting. The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the honourable Ms KIRNER - We get no sense of that from member for Wantirna. She is well aware of the members of the opposition; absolutely no spelling QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

446 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 26 March 1992 provisions of Standing Orders and, if necessary, I am The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable prepared to act against her. The Leader of the member for Ballarat North. National Party is well aware of the forms of the House and should use appropriate language to refer Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - I believe the Budget result to honourable members. in Victoria will be the best Budget result of any State in Australia. On the point of order he raised, at this stage of the Treasurer's reply it is difficult to relate his remarks Honourable members interjecting. to the question that was asked. I ask the Treasurer to relate his remarks to the question. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - Let's have a tour of the States. New South Wales is looking at net financing Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - It is not transactions closer to $2.4 billion this year. Nick surprising that the Leader of the National Party, the Greiner's government has rolled over to the extent of honourable member for Brighton and the Leader of more than $300 million in its revenue base. Western the Opposition resort to personal attacks because Australia has conceded that its revenue will decrease they have absolutely no policies to offer. If they wish by almost $400 million. to substitute personal vilification for an idea, so be it, but I will take them on in this forum or any other Returning to the question, yes, the government may forum on the issues of the day. be out by 1 per cent. The other side is that within the Budget the government will maintain levels of Let us explore these issues. The government has employment in this State and an acceptable degree made a clear commitment to spending money in a of services to Victorians. The end result is we will way that will sustain an acceptable level of maintain those levels of employment and services to employment in this country and a reasonable Victorians and we will bring in a Budget within delivery of services to Victorians. The options are 1 per cent of the figures set in June last year. clear. PRIORITY VIctORIA STATEMENT Honourable members interjecting. Mr KENNEDY (Bendigo West) - Will the The SPEAKER - Order! Will the Treasurer Premier outline to the House the benefits of the pause again while the House comes to order. Priority Victoria statement for regional Victoria?

Mr Mac1ellan interjected. An honourable member interjected.

The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable Ms KIRNER (Premier) - Isn't that an member for Berwick. I ask the honourable members appropriate interjection? Where is the line on for Glen Waverley and Doncaster to remain silent. regional development from the opposition? In 1990, the then Leader of the Opposition promised a Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - The options are clear. In regional development policy would be annowlCed in this environment a government can do what the short tenn, the day before I announced ours. Did governments did in the 1930s and cut back on it arrive in 1990? No! Did it arrive in 1991? expenditure and increase the misery out there, increase the unemployment level and worsen the Honourable Members - No! social and economic position; or it can make a clear commitment to Victorians and to Australians to Ms KIRNER - Did it arrive in 1992? maintain appropriate levels of service and employment. Honourable Members - No!

On that basis the government constructed a Budget Ms KIRNER - We have been waiting since 1990 with a deficit of $1.5 billion. The government clearly for a regional development and jobs policy for said that was the basis on which it was framing the regional Victoria from this opposition! Budget. The government will deliver that Budget within a 99 per cent degree of accuracy. Honourable members interjecting.

Mr Elder interjected. The SPEAKER - Order! Will the Premier pause while the House comes to order? I ask honourable QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Thursday, 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 447 members on both sides of the House, including the regional development policy we now have - which honourable member for Keilor, to remain silent so is $40 million over the next three years in regional that the Premier's reply can be heard. Victoria - working with regional boards in partnership to create jobs, in Geelong we have Ms KIRNER - This is an opposition which $500 000 extra for the refurbishing of the birthing largely represents regional Victoria, and they have unit of the Geelong Hospital. Yesterday we heard not proposed a single policy or a single job! that that was in fact a recycled policy. lbat sounded a bit funny, coming from a recycled Leader of the In contrast, Mr Speaker, if you look at our Priority Opposition! But in fact, of course, it is a new Victoria statement of yesterday, right around addition to the building area in Geelong. Victoria-- The Geelong Regional Commission does not treat Mr Elder interjected. the people of Geelong with the contempt that the Leader of the Opposition treats Geelong; they are in The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable fact prepared to put $5 million into debt retirement member for Ballarat North! so that we can invest that in hOUSing.

Ms KIRNER - We might have a look at Ballarat The same result will be achieved for the Geelong in tenns of the assistance -- area by the allocation to schools. The $699 000 for school maintenance will give a number of Geelong Mr Elder - This is done with mirrors and tradesmen the opportunity to create new jobs in the smokescreens! area.

The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the honourable Honourable members should consider the tourism member for Ballarat North. I have already cautioned facilities. There is a $4.3 million program for him a number of times this morning; I am quite Geelong, and the Great Ocean Road will have a real prepared to act against him if he is unable to abide chance to be part of that. by the forms of the House. Priority Victoria will create real jobs and the Ms KIRNER - The honourable member for opposition will have a real chance to decide whether Ballarat North just said that he would in fact stop it wants those real jobs for real people because the the ring-road. statement's allocation of $132 million from July to October will have to be passed by a separate Honourable members interjecting. Appropriation Bill. That will be the challenge. Will the opposition pass the Appropriation Bill? Will it Ms KIRNER - Absolutely. He said that when support the creation of these jobs? there was a question asked by the Deputy Premier - slightly disorderly, of course - across Mr Elder interjected. the House. He said he would stop the ring road. Ms KIRNER - Or as the honourable member for Is he going to stop the State Data Centre? Is he going Ballarat North says, which one job project will it to stop the investment to be made in the Melbourne knock off? to Adelaide rail standardisation? Is he going to stop the investment that will be made in the development QUEEN VICTORIA HOSPITAL CENTRE of a proper social support service for Ballarat? FOR WOMEN

What we have heard from the opposition in the Mrs WADE (Kew) -I refer the Premier to her media is a constant diatribe about a black hole. I statement yesterday promising $3 million for the think the only black hole is in the opposition's heads refurbishment of the Trades Hall building, and in the opposition's jobs policy! What they are $3 million for the refurbishment of the Old Treasury constantly doing is trying to create an arithmetical building but only $80 000 for plans for the number as a distraction because they are offering refurbishment of the Queen Victoria hospital centre regional Victoria nothing. for women. Do the demands of the Trades Hall Council take precedence over the needs of the Just take Geelong; just take a look at what we are women of Victoria? going to do in the Geelong area. Building on the QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

448 ASSEMBLY Thursday. 26 March 1992

Ms KIRNER (Premier) - I am not sure how remain silent, particularly the Leader of the National closely involved the honourable member has been Party. with the whole of the development of the women's centre. I know another member of her party, the Mr THOMSON - Will the Minister for Major Honourable Rosemary Varty in another place, and a Projects advise the House what options are being previous Uberal member of the Upper House, the considered for extending Collins Street into Honourable Gracia Baylor, as well as the honourable Docklands and the likely cost of each option? members for Box Hill, Wantirna and Ringwood have been closely involved. The interesting thing is that Mc KENNAN (Minister for Major Projects) - this has been a bipartisan issue. Honourable members will recall that last year Parliament, with the support of all parties, passed Mr McNamara interjected. the Docklands AuthOrity Bill. That Bill was met with enthusiasm by all parties and all parties expressed a Ms KIRNER - We know you are not interested desire to see the project expedited. in the women's centre! We know the opposition is trying to drag the women's centre into the political At that stage the Deputy Leader of the Uberal Party arena, but the women of Victoria are not interested said: in developing a partisan debate about it. The attempt to fast-track the activities in the Docklands The honourable member for Kew can smile, but I is commendable... invite her to meet the women's organisations that are behind the women's health centre. Come and see The Leader of the Opposition, appropriately quoting the notes they have just sent me thanking me for the honourable member for Ivanhoe, said: taking the next step on the women's centre project. Come and see the flowers that were sent to my The honourable member for Ivanhoe indicated that this office. Come and see the bipartisan attitude that is project should be developed ... as quickly, efficiently part of the project. and as cost-efficiently as possible. He said that all possible obstacles to its development should be Nothing is important to this opposition; it is not in removed. support of anything. It is against many things, but if the opposition had one jot of support for jobs in The Leader of the Opposition went on to say: Victoria it would be right behind the Priority Victoria statement including the heritage project ... it is an important project because it signals some because it spells out jobs. sense of vision.

I invite the honourable member for Kew to a I am pleased to report to the House that the meeting where we will go through where the Docklands AuthOrity, which is led by Mr Eric $80 000 allocation for the women's centre fits into Mayer, a senior and highly respected Melbourne the next planning stage and how much is in the businessman, is getting on with the job of preparing opposition policy for the women's centre and how the first important piece of infrastructure to open up much is in our policy! You had better have your the possibilities of further development of policy developed by then, because you have not got Docklands, and that relates to the extension of one now and you have not got a clue about jobs, Collins Street. I note that Priority Victoria, the whether they be in heritage buildings or anywhere statement made by the Premier yesterday, commits else. the government to the extension of Collins Street.

COLLINS STREET EXTENSION The Docklands Authority has engaged Maunsell and Partners Pty Ltd as head consultants to advise on Mr THOMSON (Pascoe Vale) - I direct a engineering, technical, urban design and question to the Minister -- landscaping issues, and it has been consulting with the major stakeholders including the Public The SPEAKER - Order! It is impossible for the Transport Corporation, the Port of Melbourne Chair to hear the question being asked by the Authority, the Melbourne City Council and VIC honourable member for Pascoe Vale. I suspect, ROADS in the development of this very important therefore, it is also difficult for other honourable project. members to hear. I ask all honourable members to QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Thursday, 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 449

Three main options are being worked on: an figures right. He will have a chance to get those overpass option with an indicative cost at this stage figures right. of some $40 million; an underpass option with an indicative cost of some $60 million; and an at-grade There is $5.5 million in the 1991-92 Budget, which is option which would involve the lowering of rail within Budget estimates, as well as a proposal to lines at a cost of some $900 million. spend $50 million in 1992-93. He will get his chance with that amount and the other amounts that build Although there have been statements by the up to $132 million for the total jobs project from July Melbourne City Council preferring the at-grade to October 1992. option it is highly unlikely that the government or the opposition would support a $900 million He will be able to examine the figures in minute solution to this issue. detail - and we will provide the calculator to enable him to get them right. They will be part of the Work on the feasibility of the project and work by Appropriation Bill, which he will be able to examine, Maunsells will continue until June, when Maunsells as is his right as shadow Treasurer. He will be able will come up with a final recommendation. to examine every single dollar.

I am concerned that recently some members of the It will be very interesting when he does. It will be opposition, including the shadow Minister for Major interesting to hear what this opposition says when it Projects, have not reflected the enthusiasm for the is forced to confront not the political arithmetic it is Docklands Project that was reflected by honourable now playing at but the real question of whether it is members in this House when the Bill was debated in prepared to bring forward the money into the April of last year. I look forward to a continuation of Supply period - that is, July to October - to get at least the bipartisan support that existed in April jobs on the Victorian scene, now. I look forward to last year for the opening up of Docklands and the that discussion. fast-tracking of the process. I also look forward to the post-October discussions PRIORITY VICTORIA STATEMENT when, I am told, we will hear some job policies from the opposition. I am told they will say something Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - I address a about jobs at the end of this year. I am not sure question to the Premier. exactly when, but they say it will be close to the election. Ms Kimer - You are just the guy! I look forward to that; and I look forward to hearing Mr STOCKDALE - Unfortunately you are not the opposition's job policies. We have ours. The just the gal, and I am not interested in smelling the government's policy contains the next step, but the flowers! I refer the Premier to the spending promises opposition has not said anything about its policy. on roads and public transport in yesterday'S statement, and I ask: is the total of roads and They can go on with all the political arithmetic they transport spending $64 million as outlined by the like, but the things that add up for real people are Premier in her speech, $124.5 million as appears in real jobs. There are the beginnings of jobs that this the statement text, $55.5 million as appears in the State can facilitate together with the private sector table on the last page of the statement, some other and the community sector. Those jobs will be added figure or nothing at all? to the One Nation jobs and will be a practical example of what can be done. Honourable members interjecting. Mr Slockdale interjected. The SPEAKER - Order! I shall call the Premier when the House comes to order. Ms KIRNER - This is a great opportunity for the shadow Treasurer to carefully examine the black Ms KIRNER (Premier) -It is obvious that in the hole that is in his head. When he does that he will past 24 hours the shadow Treasurer has spent a see, first of all, how the money is clearly spelt out for good deal of time adding up on his fingers, because 1992-93; and the rest of the money, which he is he certainly has not been using a calculator! U he so-- had been using a calculator he would have got his Mr Gude interjected. PAPERS

450 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 26 March 1992

Ms KIRNER - Mr Speaker, at least you would State Employees Retirement Benefits Board - Report have to say that the Deputy Leader of the for the year 1990-91 Opposition is interested in the debate. Yesterday he stayed in the House while the Leader of the Statutory Rules Under the following Acts: Opposition walked out on the debate on the most Chiropractors and Osteopaths Act 1978- important issue that we have discussed in this State. SRNo.39 I am not surprised he walked out. He preferred to·sit Consumer Affairs Act 1972 -SR No. 36 in his room watching the cricket on television; he Credit (Administration) Act 1984 -SR No. 27 was not interested at all in the real jobs statement because he has no policy. I am not sure -- Education Act 1958 -SR No. 31

Honourable members interjecting. Fisheries Act 1968 -SR No. 35 Health Services Act 1988 - SR No. 38 Ms KIRNER - The dollar figures for the July to Martial Arts Control Act 1986 - SR No. 32 October jobs are clearly spelt out; the 1992-93 dollars for jobs are clearly spelt out. The discrepancy that Liquor Control Act 1987 - SR No. 26 this gentleman thinks he has found is because he has Professional Boxing Control Act 1985 - SR No. 33 not added in the 1993-94 dollars. References Areas Act 1978 -SR No. 34 When you look at the total package you will see that Tobacco Act 1987 - SR No. 37 it all stands up. They will be real jobs for the people of Victoria. FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) Mr WALLACE (Gippsland South) - I refer the BILL Treasurer to yesterday'S statement on Priority Victoria, and ask: can he explain why the Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, government's total expenditure claim ignored the Post-Secondary Education and Training) - By costs in 1991-92 and 1992-93 of promises spread over leave, I move: three years, thus leaving a $41 million black hole in the financial calculations in the statement? That the Order of the House making the resumption of debate on the Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill an Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - That question Order of the Day for Thursday, 2 April, be read and has been adequately answered by the Premier. I rescinded and that it be made an Order of the Day for refer him to the back page of Priority Victoria-A this day. statement on jobs. The back page clearly shows the figures for 1991-92 and 1992-93, and the text refers in Motion agreed to. detail to anticipated expenditures in 1993-94. PAPERS APPROPRIATION MESSAGES Messages read recommending appropriations for: Laid on table by Oerle Dairy Industry Bill Alpine Resorts Commission - Report for the year Aboriginal Land (Manatunga Land) Bill ended 31 October 1991 BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE Building Societies Counci1-Report for the year 1990-91 Mr JASPER (Murray Valley) - Mr Speaker, I do not wish to proceed today with Notice of Motion, City of Melbourne Superannuation Fund General Business, No. 1 on the Notice Paper. Trustees - Report for the year 1990-91 However, I ask that the motion remain on the Notice Paper. Pensions Supplementation Fund - Report and Financial Statement for the year 1990-91 Mr RICHARDSON (Forest Hill) - Mr Speaker, I do not wish to proceed with Notices of Motion, DEFERRED LIABILITIES

Thursday, 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 451

General Business, Nos 2, 6 and 8 standing in my Labor government's irresponsible and cynical name, but I wish them to remain on the Notice strategy has two elements; both are of advantage to Paper. the Kirner government in the short tenn, but are of immense disadvantage to the people of Victoria in Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) - Mr Speaker, I do not the medium and long tenn. wish to proceed with Notice of Motion, General Business, No. 3 standing in my name, but I wish it to The first element is the quick fix, the chronic remain on the Notice Paper. addiction of the government to the avoidance of the problems the Labor Party itself has created by Mr STOCK DALE (Brighton) - Mr Speaker, I do borrowing and deferring liabilities, which increases not wish to proceed with Notice of Motion, General the cost to Victoria of the Labor Party's failure. Business, No. 4 standing in my name, but I request that it remain on the Notice Paper. The second element is the planting of a time bomb in the finances of the State and in the finances of an Mr COOPER (Morning ton) - Mr Speaker, I do incoming government that is designed to shorten the not wish to proceed with Notice of Motion, General coalition's period in office. Business, No. 5 standing in my name, but I request that it remain on the Notice Paper. There are two distinct features of each of these arrangements. Firstly, they provide a cash Mr MACLELLAN (Berwick) -Mr Speaker, I do advantage to the Labor government now and, not wish to proceed with Notice of Motion, General secondly, they will impose additional costs on the Business, No. 7 standing in my name, but I request taxpayers after the election Budget. Today I shall that it remain on the Notice Paper. direct attention to a number of facts which are already public and which indicate that the Mr PERRIN (Bulleen) - Mr Speaker, I do not government has already embarked upon the wish to proceed with Notice of Motion, General preparation of the 1992-93 Victorian Budget on a Business, No. 9 standing in my name, but I request fraudulent basis. It will again defer liabilities into the that it remain on the Notice Paper. future, and will be designed to create the illusion of restraint in expenditure and to allow the DEFERRED LIABILITIES government to fraudulently claim in the Budget-day presentation that it has met its targets in relation to Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - I move: the deficit.

That this House condemns the deferral of liabilities by It is clear the Budget brought down before the next the government and requests the Auditor-General to Victorian election will be a package of lies and deceit investigate and report on the additional costs to extending beyond the scope of any Victorian's taxpayers arising from agreements and other schemes imagination the level of deception and irresponsible which defer liabilities. abandonment of the interests of the people of Victoria. The commtmity is in for a Budget that will This motion concerns the systematic sabotaging of play games to produce a political advantage with no Victoria's finances by the Kirner and Cain less a sum than $8 billion of the finances of the governments to gain short-tenn political advantage people of Victoria. for the Australian Labor Party at the expense of massive increases in the liabilities of the Victorian We are to have a repeat of the scandal of 1988: an people. election conducted on the basis of a fraudulent Budget which the government knows can never be The proposed debt for equity swap, details of which delivered, but which in the course of preparation have been systematically leaked over the past few involves steps that will sacrifice the interests of weeks, is the latest in a series of deferred liabilities Victorians for many years to come. and other stratagems designed to sabotage the Victorian Budget, irrespective of the cost that The purpose of the exercise has nothing to do with imposes on the people of Victoria. the propaganda the government is promoting. The Treasurer would have us believe that the focus of The debt for equity swap is an $8 billion scandal, the reforms the government proposes is the double the size of the Khemlani loans affair which improvement of the finances of Victoria's statutory brought down the Whitlam Labor government. The authorities. Nothing could be further from the truth. DEFERRED LIABILITIES

452 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 26 March 1992

The real purpose of the arrangements is to create an discussion paper on corporatisation. In that paper he artificial reduction in the Budget deficit that will be acknowledges the plain fact that even if the claimed the day the State Budget is presented to government were to remove the existing guarantee Parliament before the next election. on debt for statutory authorities the financial community and more particularly the credit rating In 1988 the government went to the election on a agencies would continue to regard the debt as being fraud. It went to the election on a cover-up of the guaranteed by the State. Mr Theophanous said that consequences of its mismanagement and a cover-up remOving the existing guarantee would be a of the Victorian Economic Development Corporation detriment to the State for little or no gain under the scandal and scandals involving the Victorian sorts of conditions proposed by the government. It Investment Corporation Ltd, the former State Bank would not excuse the State from responsibility for Victoria and Tricontinental Corporation Ltd. that debt held by the statutory authorities.

An election was brought on during the Olympic At the weekend the Age reported comments by a Games, with the football finals in prospect and just senior executive of the credit rating agency Standard after the Royal Melbourne Show so that the attention and Poors Corporation to the same effect: the State of the people of Victoria would be diverted. will still implicitly guarantee the borrowings of statutory authorities and those borrowings will still In 1992 the government proposes to go to an election be treated as State debts for the purpose of assessing on a Budget that will be a package of lies and the State's credit rating and for assessing the credit deception. The government proposes to assume $8 rating of the statutory authorities. billion of the debt of the statutory authorities, which will reduce the authorities' interest bill by I note the response of the Treasurer to the approximately $800 million. The government has unmasking of his dishonest strategy of inflicting on already indicated that most, if not the whole of that the State a double Khemlani crisis: he is leaving the sum, will be taken up in additional dividends by the House! No doubt he will make no response to these government. This is the first proof that the serious allegations about debt. He has deserted his government's scheme has nothing to do with responsibility in this House just as he has deserted improving the financial position of the statutory and failed in his responsibilities as Treasurer. The authorities. Indeed, it will lead only to a government has only three members present in the deterioration in cash terms of the authorities' House for this important debate. financial positions. The leaks have already made it clear that the authorities will be no better off and Mr Theophanous put the lie to what the Treasurer they may be worse off. The three authorities will has said about the removal of statutory authority have $800 million in increased dividends to pay. At debt from reported State debt. If the Treasurer seeks best they will have $800 million reduction in their to treat non-guaranteed debt as non-State debt when interest expenses but they face huge costs as their he publishes those figures in the Budget Papers, he remaining debt is rolled over. will not be telling the truth. He seeks to defer liabilities and avoid facing up to the crisis the The Treasurer also proposes to withdraw the government has created. This will have an impact on government guarantee from statutory authorities the statutory authorities. They are aware that their borrowings. He has done that not because it will be credit ratings are under examination; they have been good for them but because he wants to commit a downgraded twice in the past two years. It is clear fraud on the people of Victoria. He wants to omit the from the comments made already by the rating amount of debt held by statutory authorities from agencies that the authorities face the prospect of a the Budget Papers by not guaranteeing the debt. It is further reduction in their credit ratings if the a ruse to artificially reduce the reported State debt government proceeds with this harebrained scheme. by ignoring the fact that the government must stand In addition, even without a reduction in credit rating behind the borrowings of statutory authorities. the authorities' cost of funds will rise. Again, it is Mr Theophanous who has confirmed that the effect Honourable members do not have to accept my of the government's guaranteeing the debt of the word on that matter. As usual the Treasurer is in authorities is to reduce their borrowing costs. To conflict with other Ministers. Mr Theophanous, in remove the guarantee, as the Treasurer has another place, who is Minister assisting the Minister proposed, is to increase their borrowing costs and for Manufacturing and Industry Development with further undermine their financial viability. responsibility for Corporatisation, has published a DEFERRED LIABILITIES

Thursday, 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 453

Not only that but part of this package involves a additional debt for which the Budget and therefore proposition by the Treasurer that the State taxpayers are responsible? Is it conceivable that this authorities will take over the refinancing of the government with its track record will pay the Victorian Equity Trust on anyone of the three bases interest with the dividend it gets in? he has outlined in the past three days and that the SEC will absorb the cost of the flexible tariff Honourable Members - No! management unit trust, a subsidy this year in excess of $200 million after additional debt is transferred to Mr STOCKDALE - Is it conceivable that it will the SEC. If this clown of a Treasurer takes the accept the responsibility for meeting the $800 million remaining liquid reserves one can only assume the or $900 million of additional interest out of next authorities will be left in the position of having to year's Budget? To do so would have an impact on borrow the subsidy that is currently met out of the the Budget deficit, and it is clear from what has been State Budget. conceded today by this discredited Premier that next year we are looking at a deficit in excess of this This is fraud and deception beyond anything ever year's deficit. It is built into the government's conceived in the history of this State and indeed Budget strategy. So what can we expect from the bigger than anything conceived in this country. Not government's track record? We can expect that the even Whitlam who brought this country to its knees interest will be deferred and we know that the and started the process that has led to the government is exploring ways of deferring the full destruction of our economy over the past three cost of the $8 billion of debt that would be decades could have imagined dealing in this way transferred to the taxpayers' account under this with $8 billion of the State debt. It is being used arrangement. simply as a marketing strategy device for a government in an election year to produce a phoney We know the government has been examining a Budget figure. He might as well do what he has series of deals, for example, a $2 billion fake share done in the past and what the government has done arrangement in which the government would pay in every one of its seven Budgets: simply put only 2 per cent on $2 billion of that debt and defer fraudulent figures in the Budget documents and go the rest to be met in a payout linked to the stock to the election before anyone has a chance of market index at the end of the financing period. We properly analysing them. It would be less dangerous know the government is deferring interest. This year to do that than to play around with $8 billion of the no less than $984 million of interest has been people's finances. deferred to next year and treated as accrued interest. No appropriation has been made for it, it has simply The deal that is proposed by the government been moved from one Budget to the next. The threatens to further undermine the financial viability government is considering the option of simply of Victoria's major statutory authorities. It inevitably borrowing in July, under this arrangement to must result in substantial increases in tariffs for gas, refinance the debt, on the basis of the first interest water and electricity. The government can do payment not being due until July 1993. nothing to guarantee against the consequences of its actions by mere words. This is a Premier of words - What would the effect be? No disclosed interest in not work - and of deception, fabrication and the election Budget but $800 million of additional propaganda. All of this is to focus where the revenue in that Budget and an apparent reduction in government wants the focus: on the disastrous the Budget deficit of no less than $800 million, but at impact on the statutory authorities of the proposed the expense of carrying forward bigger obligations debt reshuffle. into the future. However, it does not rest there: the Treasurer has spoken of the prospect of a gain in the The real purpose of this so-called debt for equity Budget of between $1 billion and $1.2 billion from transfer lies in the Budget sector because it is there this deal. What evidence do we have about what he that the lies and distortions are supported by this has in mind? We have the fact that the government proposal. As I have already said, the government has already undertaken irresponsible and, indeed, has made it clear that the assumption of $8 billion of illegal deals in the form of interest rate swaps on the debt would result in a transfer into the Budget of an basis of a notional debt of about $200 million -- additional $800 million of revenue. So we have an increase in the State's apparent Budget revenue Mr A J. Sheehan interjected. flowing out of this ruse. What will the government do with the interest bill on the $8 billion of DEFERRED LIABILITIES

454 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 26 March 1992

Mr STOCKDALE - I take up the interjection of arrangement already announced by the Treasurer the Treasurer: we have not agreed to ratify what the would further undermine the finances of the government has done, for the good reason that the statutory authorities. It is not about reducing gas, government committed illegal actions and no-one electricity and water charges because the inevitable has ever accepted responsibility for them. We will consequence of what is proposed is higher charges not give the government the authority to carry out for Victorians. It is all about a contrived, artificial, those transactions because the opposition stands for dishonest, deceitful and illegal reduction in the the public interest of Victorians. Victorians do not . Budget deficit that the government, when it goes to trust this government with the power it now holds the people during the next State election, will claim and they are charging us with the responsibility of to have produced. ensuring that the government gains no more power with which to ride this State into the ground. This is the most recent of a long series of actions which sell out the interests of the people of Victoria What do we know about the government's track for short-term gain to the Labor Party. The most record? It embarked upon illegal interest rate swaps obvious examples are the Victorian Economic where existing interest commitments were swapped Development Corporation (VEOC), the sad and for future commitments that will be more expensive tragic legacy of the State Bank and Tricontinental, for Victorians. One may ask: why do that? Why give and the sad legacy of the payout of taxpayers' up favourable interest commitments and be locked money to meet payments due to the government's into even higher interest commitments for the same mismanagement of the Pyramid Building Society money? The answer: the government got an up-front affair. It includes transport losses, which now exceed cash payment to do so. Now it trades off higher $11 billion since the government has been in office, interest bills for cash to appear to defray the deficit, and WorkCare's unfunded liabilities where the to make the deficit look smaller than it is, all in government bowed to the union movement. exchange for committing taxpayers to larger payments in the future. The government did that It abandoned the reform process and left Victoria with $200 million and now it talks about doing that with unfunded liabilities, which are rising again and with $8 billion! eating into the Budget's finances. It is destroying Victoria as an attractive place for business to invest The government is preparing to use all or part of the and driving businesses and jobs out of the State. It $8 billion to obtain up-front cash payments. Not includes $900 million of stock market losses inflicted content with the $800 million of additional revenue on us by the mug punter former Treasurer. It now flowing into its coffers in the form of dividends includes $700 million of foreign exchange losses the government is laying the groundwork for inflicted on us by the mug punter former Treasurer. another illegal deal because the Treasurer has now It includes all the sad and sorry litany of losses and acknowledged that he does not have the power to do tragic disasters for which this State will have to foot those deals; nor will he receive that power from us. the bill for many decades. Nonetheless, the Treasurer intends to use a series of devices tha t shift the interest cost out of the election It is rolled up in the ratchet effect, acknowledged by Budget and to defer the interest, thereby bringing the previous Treasurer, of excessive spending. It has forward cash that will enable him to claim a lower the effect of locking in expenditure programs into Budget deficit. the Budget. The government refuses to tackle the expenditure side of the Budget. It has rolled up a Those actions are not only irresponsible and a massive debt to the extent that the government sabotage of the interest of Victorian taxpayers but appropriates the total resources of the community. they are also illegal. The government and its Ministers ultimately must answer for illegal actions Using the government's own measure, Budget sector undertaken during their remaining short tenure in net debt as a proportion of the State's gross domestic office. product (GDP) has increased from 12.55 per cent in 1981-82 to 16.4 per cent in 1991-92. Public debt as a The real focus of this deal is not the statutory whole increased from 25.4 per cent in 1981-82 to a authorities because the government's corporatisation massive 29.1 per cent in 1991-92 -and that is not plans would actually increase the degree of the end of it. 'That is the government's favoured government intervention in the management of measure, however, that is a nonsense measure; it statutory authorities. It is not about improving the compares a stock of debt built up over 150 years finances of the statutory authorities because the with what the State produces in one year. DEFERRED LIABILITIES

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The more important measure is how much of what superannuation contributions, $18 million and the State produces every year is consumed by finance charges, $233 million - a grand total of interest on government debt. What does the $400 million of accoWlting gymnastics to create the government have to expropriate from the people of illusion of fiscal restraint. Victoria, from the businesses of Victoria, and what does it have to do in driving people out of jobs to The government was not content with that. It not pay its own interest bill? That is a more important only sought to defer liabilities but also sought to measure. create liabilities by calling forward revenue to be received early in the Budget year before it was due. What do the figures show? When the Uberal Party It called forward: recall of advances, $97 million; was last in government the State's interest on Budget financial commitments for the Farrow group, net debt as a proportion of non-farm domestic $64 million; transport charges, $13 million; funds product was 0.9 per cent. A little Wlder 1 per cent of from the racing industry, $9 million; traffic notices, everything the State produced was required to pay $4 million and a contribution from the Victorian the government's interest bill. That figure has now Development FWld of $3 million - a total of doubled and is now 1.8 per cent. $190 million of additional revenue brought forward from future years, leaving holes in future Budgets. I turn to public sector debt. In relation to State net To get cash into the Budget the government wanted debt the figure was 2.5 per cent when the to show that it was "a responsible government". government came to office and it is now 3.6 per cent. Of every single thing the State produces this year It transferred off Budget the following 3.6 per cent will be expropriated by the second mug responsibilities: health and safety, $10 million; pWlter Treasurer to pay interest on State debt. That non-commercial ports expenditure, $5 million and reflects the enormous increase in the burden road safety expenditure, $5 million. That does not government imposes on our commWlity and helps accoWlt for the moneys transferred to the Victorian to explain why Victoria is the most highly taxed Health Promotion FOWldation, the other $30 million State, why Victorians are being taxed out of jobs this transferred to the Transport Accident Commission year, why Victorians are fleeing the State, why net and a host of other devices. migration is higher and why the level of disinvestment is higher than in any other State. The For 1990-91 the government produced an artificial government's financial incompetence and reduction in the State deficit of $610 million by mismanagement is the cause of the tragic leap in blatant and deceitful accounting tricks. In addition, unemployment over the past two years. $202 million of accrued interest payments were not met. That was the net effect of interest transfers It does not stop there. The government has between Budgets. embarked upon a false Budget and a process of distortion and lies to create an illusion of In 1989-90 the government deferred $608 million of expenditure restraint and fiscal responsibility which interest commitments by rescheduling debt does not bear examination. payments. In 1990-91 it deferred $810 million, and this year it is deferring $984 million. The net effect We rely upon the Auditor-General to precisely cost on the 1990-91 Budget was $202 million. The the effects of the government's Budget government lied by reducing Budget expenditure manipulations. For that reason figures are not and increasing Budget revenue. An amoWlt of available for the financial year 1991-92. One can see $812 million was artificially taken off the State's the pattern from what was disclosed by the deficit, yet even then the Budget deficit blew out to Auditor-General in his report last year. The double what the government had proposed. Victoria government has engaged in at least three strategies. had a deficit of just Wlder $1200 million. Had the One is to defer expenditure. The government government not engaged in such tricks and deceit deferred the following expenditures from last the deficit would have been in excess of $2 billion. Budget year into this Budget year to create a false impression on Budget day: payments to suppliers, The same is being done this year. Such deception has $51 million; non-government schools grants, an impact on the Budget figures. They are designed $40 million; grants for mWlicipallibraries and to create the illusion of expenditure restraint and municipal rates, $26 million; Monash Medical fiscal responsibility. Lord knows what the deficit Centre, $15 million; private bus subsidies, will be when it is projected to be $1.5 billion this $14 million; ambulance replacement, $3 million; year and when it is conceded already that it will DEFERRED LIABILITIES

456 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 26 March 1992 blowout by $130 million, particularly when last year buildings the government will have to enter there was not an improvement in the last quarter of non-commercial lease arrangements to artificially the year as the government had claimed there would inflate the leased value. The State will be left to foot be. the bill on artificially inflated rents. The government will have taken the cash in the meantime and When the Auditor-General's figures are available squandered it so that the people of Victoria will have and we can cost the ruses, deceptions, dishonesty nothing but debt remaining. and illegal things done in this year's Budget, will we face a $3 billion deficit? Will it be $3.5 billion? Is The accelerated infrastructure program is nothing there no limit to how far this irresponsible more than another time bomb. The government is government will go in torpedoing the interests of seeking to curry political favour by entering into Victorians? projects that cannot be responsibly funded. I refer to the recent deal - just part of the program - to fund The government has gone beyond the short-term fifteen police stations with $200 million in deferred Budget manipulation; it has embarked on a strategy liabilities. If the people of Victoria were asked of systematically sabotaging future Budgets of this whether the Kimer government should borrow State - systematically sabotaging the Budgets of the another $200 million this year to replace fifteen incoming coalition government - for the dual police stations they would say no. Indeed the purposes of, firstly, avoiding the government having government is saying no because it is not prepared to face the crisis it has created, and avoiding the to borrow the $200 million. Instead it seeks to create government having to face its friends in the union liabilities that will be greater than $200 million by movement, and, secondly, of shortening the locking the State into non-commercial leases on opposition's period in office. The government hopes those buildings over twenty years. Again the to present the incoming coalition government with government is getting a political advantage now at such financial chaos that it will be forced to use the expense of creating costly liabilities in the future. strong action which Labor hopes will be unpopular with Victorians and which will shorten the I turn now to the Victorian Equity Trust (VET). In a coalition's term in office. Therefore time bombs are moment of uncharacteristic charity I must say I feel being laid in the State's finances. sorry for the current Treasurer. He is on the horns of a dilemma. The problem was not of his making; Leasing commitments have been extended again this Mug Punter No. 1 got Victoria into this mess. week, but the published figures acknowledged by the Treasurer - and acknowledged by the former When the honourable member for Doveton was Treasurer in recent times - now total $1504 million. Treasurer he entered into arrangements that the Are those leasing payments simply spread over the opposition said at the time would cost more than lease period for the next seven to ten years? No, they debt every time the amount was rolled over. If are not. Some 83 per cent of the lease payments people were to invest in the VET there had to be a under most of these leasing arrangements are sweetener in the pie: they had to be paid more than deferred until the end of lease periods. The they would get by just putting their money into loan government has gained cash by selling the assets of arrangements and earning interest. the people of Victoria to the extent of $800 million, has committed the State to payout $1504 million The current Treasurer confirmed that. He said the over the next few years but deferred more than costs of continuing the VET would have been higher 83 per cent of those payments until the end of lease than the costs of paying it out. The current Treasurer periods. This is financial irresponsibility on a scale has discredited a former Treasurer and discredited the State has never seen before. the device of the VET. He has abandoned it. The best one can say is that the Treasurer has imposed on The people of Victoria own nine city buildings. The Victorians the lesser of two evils. opposition estimates those city buildings have a combined value of more than $500 million. To get Honourable members will never know how much cash now the government recently announced the payout will be because it will be subsumed in proposals to lease these buildings and then sell them State interest. We can never account for more than on a lease basis with the government committed to the $80 million that it will cost next year. In reality paying rent over ten or twenty years, depending on the $80 million would go on forever if this mob were whether options are taken up. The government to stay in office. Every year the $80 million debt proposes to raise $500 million. In order to sell these DEFERRED LIABILITIES

Thursday. 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 457 would have to be met to cover up the cost of the Honourable members interjecting. collapse of the VET. Mr STOCK DALE - Where is the Treasurer? So the VET is another time bomb planted in the There is no Minister at the table. The guilty State's finances. The only sympathy I have for the Treasurer has flown the Parliament and the Whip Treasurer is that it was not his making and, at least has scurried out, like a frightened rabbit, too in this instance, he chose the lesser of two evils and frightened of the truth. did the least irresponsible thing. The flexible tariff management unit trust is the Yesterday the government claimed credit for the ongoing subsidy set up by the really smart people construction and consequences of the National who came to office in 1982, and who repudiated the Tennis Centre. The opposition has never been agreement the previous Liberal government had critical of the tennis centre. It regards the tennis made which would have guaranteed the centre as an asset for Victoria, but the way it was recommencement of the Portland smelter and left funded is a State disgrace. the Victorian people with an important community business, providing jobs and generating export The government has now acknowledged two things. income, not at the expense of the taxpayer funding Firstly, the National Tennis Centre Trust has $200 million a year in subsidies for electricity. The acknowledged that the government projections of government is now proposing to inflict that cost on the cost of the deal were wrong in 1985 and have taxpayers through electricity tariffs. been wrong ever since. Secondly, it acknowledged that the opposition's projections were proven to be I now refer to the Farrow group, the sad and tragic accurate almost to the dollar. That is compelling disaster which is responsible for the destruction of evidence that the opposition knows what the the life savings of many Victorians through the government is doing but the government does not government's financial incompetence. The know what it is doing. government certainly created a moral obligation to protect the interests of depositors after the former Consequently the government has again squibbed it. Treasurer, the honourable member for Doveton, and It has taken the short-term course for its political the former Attorney-General, now the Minister for advantage at the long-term cost to Victorians. Had Planning and Housing, made commitments and the government refinanced the National Tennis urged people, "She'll be right mate, don't worry, Centre, it might have been done on $70 million and we'll protect you, leave your money in Pyramid". the tennis centre might have been paying its way. Hundreds of thousands of Victorians have lost their Now the people of Victoria are locked into a deal money because of their statement. Even if people that will cost $144 million over the next twelve years benefit from the payout arrangements they will still because they will be subSidising the tennis centre at lose the real value of their money and recover only the rate of $12 million a year. half of what they had put into it. Huge numbers of people, approximately 40 000, were duped and the Yesterday the government referred to the World government has left them deserted. The cost to the Congress Centre. What a disaster the financing of taxpayers of Victoria looks like being in the vicinity the congress centre has been for Victorians! We are of $414 million. I ask: who will have to meet that going to buy this building twice over the next twelve cost? The answer is: not the people who years. The government committed us to leasing the mismanaged the building societies; not the people building at a cost that represented the retrieval of who gave irresponsible commitments; not the the construction costs and the financing cost over people who planned the arrangement that has seven years. We will payout, in round terms, $250 financed this deal on the never-never; it will fall on million over seven years. Will we own the building the Victorian taxpayers during the period of the at the end of that period? No. If we want the coalition's term of office. It represents another building the State will have to buy it again for deliberately created time bomb. another $250 million. What a great deal! Victoria will have the World Congress Centre but it will have to We still have the residue of all the Labor losses: the pay for it twice. Victorian Economic Development Corporation (VEDC), with doubtful debts still at $58 million; the I turn now to the flexible tariff management unit Victorian Investment Corporation, with worthless trust, a commitment that represents -- investment and $28 million of doubtful debts. We have the new Peter Sheehan network. The man who DEFERRED LIABILITIES

458 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 26 March 1992 collaborated with the former Treasurer, the Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - Mr Acting honourable member for Doveton, to bring this State Speaker, on a point of order, I request that the to its knees, to create the monster of WorkCare, to honourable member for Brighton withdraw that destroy the finances of this State, the philosopher remark. I find it offensive. king, so out of touch with reality that he destroyed the State's finances, now has a bigger empire to play Mr KENNElT (Leader of the Opposition) - with. The size of the trusts and reserves Mr Acting Speaker, on the point of order, the Peter Sheehan is now managing and coordinating as Treasurer by his own interjection admitted in the puppeteer pulling the strings behind the response to an interjection from this side, unruly as Treasurer is bigger than the VEDC was at the same it may have been, that the government was the stage of its development. The Auditor-General has guilty party - the Treasurer said by interjection, reported that their losses exceed those of the VEDC 'The criminal party". He corrected my colleague, at the same stage of its development. saying it was not the guilty party; it was the criminal party. This mob have learnt one thing in the past ten years: they have learnt more sophisticated cover-ups. Now It was not something the honourable member for we do not have annual reports which were required Brighton said. If the Treasurer now wants to retract to be prepared for the VEDC; no corporations to the statement himself, let him do so. The Treasurer appear in the corporations register so that searches of this government in this House has said that this could be undertaken and it could be discovered government is not only a guilty party, it is a criminal what was happening to them. Now we have trusts; party. That is not the statement of the honourable we have shadowy figures grouped around Dr Peter member for Brighton. This is the statement coming Sheehan. Now we have the Treasurer giving out from the mouth of the Treasurer. $40 million or $60 million beyond the purview of the Parliament, not accountable to the people of Victoria. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - Mr Acting Speaker, on the point of order -- The opposition is seeking amendments to the law to bring the activities I have described to the puiview Mr Bildstien - Sit down, you mug! of the people of Victoria and the Auditor-General. I ask: what is the Treasurer doing? The answer is: he' Honourable members interjecting. is refusing to disclose and be accountable. He is still shovelling all the people's money out to the man Mr KENNElT (Leader of the Opposition) - who has lost it in the past and is not accountable. Mr Acting Speaker, on the point of order -- Dr Peter Sheehan is an old-fashioned 1930s socialist, just like the honourable member for Northcote, the Honourable members interjecting. Treasurer. The ACI1NG SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of Honourable Members - Guilty! Guilty! the Opposition, on the point of order.

Mr A. J. Sheehan - The criminal party! Mr KENNETT - Mr Acting Speaker, on the point of order, I would suggest to you that the Mr Kennett interjected. Treasurer has no claim to ask the honourable member for Brighton to withdraw a comment that The ACI1NG SPEAKER (Mr Jasper) - Order! he, the Treasurer, made about himself and his own The Leader of the Opposition will have his turn. party.

Mr A. J. Sheehan - The criminal party! Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - Mr Acting Speaker, before you rule on the point of order, I just Mr Kennett interjected. want to make it absolutely clear that I have no intention whatever under any circumstances of Mr STOCKDALE - I take up the Treasurer's withdrawing the matter to which the Treasurer takes interjection and I hope that Hansard has recorded it. objection. He clearly said it. It would be a lie for me He has just admitted that the Labor Party is not only to withdraw, and I have no intention of doing so. guilty, but criminal. The ACI1NG SPEAKER - Order! On the point Honourable members interjecting. of order, Standing Order No. 108 provides that: DEFERRED LIABILITIES

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No member shall use offensive or unbecoming words Mr KENNETf (Leader of the Opposition) - in reference to any member of the House and all Mr Speaker, on a further point of order -- imputations of improper motives and all personal reflections on members shall be deemed disorderly. The SPEAKER - Order! I will deal with the point of order presently before the Chair. If the Treasurer finds the comment made by the honourable member for Brighton disorderly, it Mr KENNETf - Mr Speaker, on the same point would need to be withdrawn. of order, in your absence - I am not sure whether you were able to hear the debate in your room - the Mr COOPER (Momington) - Mr Acting Treasurer by interjection used the words lithe Speaker, on a further point of order -- criminal party". They were an interjection from the Treasurer and were repeated by the honourable The ACTING SPEAKER - Order! The Treasurer member for Brighton. has asked for a withdrawal of the comment and I call on the honourable member for Brighton to The Treasurer then took exception to the honourable withdraw. member for Brighton using or repeating the words that the Treasurer had said by way of interjection. Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - I did no more The Treasurer did not apologise for his comments or than repeat the words that the Treasurer-- ask for them to be withdrawn. He did not find them offensive but found them offensive when repeated Mrs Hirsh - You were asked to withdraw your by the honourable member for Brighton. remarks! The Treasurer has no grounds at all to ask for the Honourable members interjecting. withdrawal of words that he used and introduced into the debate. It is quite unacceptable that the Mr STOCKDALE - Mr Acting Speaker, I did no Treasurer now, recognising the absolute faux pas more than repeat the words which the Treasurer has that he has committed, seeks that the honourable used. I regret that I decline to withdraw the member for Brighton withdraw those words. The repetition of what he himself said. honourable member for Brighton cannot withdraw those words, given that they were contributed by the Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, Treasurer. Post-Secondary Education and Training) - Mr Acting Speaker, on the point of order, the The SPEAKER - Order! I have been listening to honourable member for Brighton -- the matter through the amplification in the Speaker's quarters. I am familiar with the matter now before Honourable members interjecting. the Chair; I do not believe it is necessary for there to be further argument on the point. Mr ROPER - Unfortunately I have been listening to the honourable member for Brighton's The custom and practice of this House, as of other speech, which one would have to say makes a very Houses, is that if a member finds words or slow speech seem even slower. expressions offensive and asks for them to be withdrawn, no matter what their source, no matter Mr Acting Speaker, it is the tradition in this place what their origin, the member who has uttered those that if a member is asked to withdraw remarks he words does withdraw them. does so. You have asked the honourable member for Brighton to withdraw and I believe he should I call on the honourable member for Brighton to withdraw those remarks, as occurs in respect of withdraw in accordance with the request of the remarks made by honourable members on both Treasurer. sides of this House when asked to withdraw. Mr STOCK DALE (Brighton) - I intend no The Speaker resumed the chair. disrespect to the Chair but for me to withdraw would be a mockery of the forms of this House and I Mr Speaker, there has been a request for a decline to do so. withdrawal and I would ask that the honourable member for Brighton withdraw. NAMING AND SUSPENSION OF MEMBER

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The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable However, I uphold the point of order and I ask the member for Brighton places himself and the Chair in Leader of the House to take the proper course to a very difficult situation. support the Chair.

Mr Kennett - The Treasurer did! Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I move: The SPEAKER - Order! If the honourable member continues to defy and disregard the That the honourable member for Brighton be authority of the Chair, the Chair will be left with no suspended from the service of the House. alternative as to the appropriate course of action. Again, I ask the honourable member for Brighton Honourable members interjecting. whether he will withdraw as requested by the Treasurer. The SPEAKER - Order! In accordance with Standing Order No. 117 the motion must now be put Mr STOCKDALE - To withdraw would make a without amendment or debate. liar of me. I repeated the Treasurer's words and I have no intention of putting myself in this Division bells rung. intolerable position. If he wants to explain that he did not mean to say what he said or make the Mr EV ANS (Gippsland East) (Speaking covered) - admission he made, that is up to him. I merely On a point of order, Mr Speaker, I believe there is a repeated his words. It is intolerable for you, grave miscarriage of justice in progress. I refer you Mr Speaker, to place me in this position. He is to Standing Order No. 108 which refers to responsible for it, not me. If you choose to throw me unbecoming words with reference to any member of out you yourself are making a mockery of this the House. It does not make any comment on or Parliament. reference to any outside organisation, even though it might be closely associated with this House. Debate interrupted. I submit to you that the honourable member for NAMING AND SUSPENSION OF Brighton did not mention any member in the MEMBER comment that was made. The reference was to a political party. I believe that if the spirit of the The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable Standing Order which is being applied at the member has now twice refused the request by me as moment is applied in the House generally, there will Presiding Officer following an earlier decision by the be no debate in the House because every time any Acting Speaker, the honourable member for Murray honourable member thinks something offensive or Valley. Accordingly, there is no alternative left for objectionable has been said he will have the right by the Chair but to uphold the practices of this House the precedent being set now to demand a and, for that matter, similar Houses. Accordingly, I withdrawal. name the honourable member for Brighton, Mr Stockdale, for disregarding the authority of the I believe it would be the responsibility of the Chair and I ask the Leader of the House to take the opposition and individual members of the proper course to support the Chair. opposition to rise to their feet and demand a withdrawal of every statement that they found Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, offensive, whether or not it was personal. Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I have to say with some reluctance, because I did ask the Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) (Speaking honourable member for Brighton -- covered) - On the point of order, Mr Speaker, the opposition has mounted a campaign of personal Mr MACLELLAN (Berwick) - On a point of vilification against members of the government. order, Mr Speaker, unless there is a motion before the House or before the Chair no member is entitled Honourable members interjecting. to speak. Unless the Leader of the House is prepared to move a motion, he is not entitled to make a speech. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - There comes a point when a campaign of personal vilification oversteps the The SPEAKER - Order! I took the Leader of the boundaries of what is reasonable. I was perfectly House to be making a preamble to moving a motion. within my rights to ask for a withdrawal. I asked for DEFERRED LIABILITIES

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a withdrawal, which was supported by the Acting Cooper, Mr Perton, Mr Speaker and by you, Mr Speaker. Delzoppo, Mc Pescott, Mc Dickinson, Mc Plowman,Mc Mr MACLELLAN (Berwick) (Speaking covered) - Elder, Mr (Teller) Reynolds, Mc On the point of order, Mr Speaker, the Treasurer Evans, Mc Smith, Mc E.R. said that the opposition was mOWlting a campaign Gude, Mr Smith, Mr LW. of personal vilification. I find that offensive and ask Hayward, Mr Steggall, Mr that it be withdrawn. Honeywood, Mc Stockdale, Mr John, Mc Tanner, Mr The SPEAKER - Order! I will not consider the Kennett, Mr Wade, Mrs further point of order raised by the honourable Kilgour, Mr Wallace, Mr member for Berwick at this stage. The appropriate Lea, Mr Weideman, Mr stage at which the honourable member for Berwick Liebecman, Mc Wells, Or may raise such a point of order is upon the conclusion of the division. Motion agreed to. On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Gippsland East, the point at issue is that Mr Stockdale withdrew from Chamber. the Treasurer fOWld the words used by the honourable member for Brighton personally Honourable Members - Shame, shame! offensive. In those circumstances the Chair had no option but to intervene in the way it did. I do not DEFERRED LIABILITIES uphold the point of order. Debate resumed. House divided on Mr Roper's motion: The SPEAKER - Order! I call the honourable Ayes, 45 member for Berwick. Andrianopoulos, Mc McDonald, Mr Baker, Mc Mathews, Mr Mr MACLELLAN (Berwick) - I repeat my point Barker, Mrs Micallef, Mr of order and ask that the Treasurer withdraw his Batchelor, Mr Norris, Mr offensive remarks. Cain, Mr Pope, Mr Cole, Mr (Teller) Ray, Mrs The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable Crabb, Mr Ropec,Mr member for Berwick has asked the Treasurer to Cunningham, Mr Rowe,Mr withdraw words which the honourable member Dollis, Mr Sandon, Mr fOWld offensive. Will the Treasurer withdraw? Emst, Mr Seitz, Mr Fordham, Mr Sercombe, Mr Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - As is the Garbutt, Mrs Setches, Mrs custom in this House, if the honourable member Gavin, Mr Sheehan, Mr A.J. fOWld the words offensive, I withdraw. Hamilton,Mr Sheehan, Mr F.P. Harrowfield, Mr Shell, Mr Mr KENNETI (Leader of the Opposition) - On Hill,Mrs Simmonds, Mr a-- Hirsh, Mrs Spyker, Mr Jolly, Mr Thomson, Mr Honourable members interjecting. Kennan, Mr Trezise, Mr Kennedy, Mc Vaughan, Or The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the Kimer,Ms Walsh,Mr OppOSition is entirely within his rights to rise on a Leighton, Mr (Teller) Wilson,Mrs point of order. McCutcheon, Mr Noes, 36 Mr KENNETI - I move: Austin, Mc McNamara, Mr Bildstien, Mc Maclellan, Mr That the House do now adjourn. Brown, Mr Maughan, Mc (Teller) Clark, Mr Napthine, Or Honourable members interjecting. Coleman,Mr Perrin, Mr DEFERRED LIABILITIES

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The SPEAKER - Order! I refer honourable The SPEAKER -Order! I understand that this is members to Standing Order No. 25, which states: an emotional time but 1 ask the honourable member for Caulfield to withdraw the expression he used. No member, unless he be a Minister of the Crown, shall be allowed to move "That the House do now adjourn", MrTANNER (Caulfield) -I withdraw. except in accordance with 5.0. 26. Mr EV ANS (Gippsland East) - On a point of I do not accept the motion of the Leader of the order, Mr Speaker, 1 find the remarks of the Opposition. Treasurer to be offensive because I am present in the House to indicate my support for the motion. I ask Mr I. W. SMITH (Polwarth) - Mr Speaker, -- that he withdraw.

The SPEAKER - Order! On the motion? The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable member for Gippsland East has taken offence at the Mr I. W. SMITH - Yes, on item No. 10 on the words used by the Treasurer. 1 ask the Treasurer Notice Paper. whether he is prepared to withdraw the words in question. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - On a point of order, Mr Speaker, the matter before the House was Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - As is the item No. 10 and the honourable member for custom in this House, if the honourable member Brighton has concluded his contribution. finds the words offensive 1 will withdraw them. Accordingly, it is now my opportunity to respond to those remarks. The SPEAKER - Order! The Treasurer may proceed. Mr I. W. SMITH (Polwarth) - On the point of order, Mr Speaker, I have the call. You named me as Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - It is interesting to note having the call on the item before the Chair and I am that at the moment there are seven members of the prepared to proceed. Liberal Party here in support of their business. It is an appalling indictment of their -- The SPEAKER -Order! At the stage at which I' called the honourable member for Polwarth I had Mr I. W. SMITH (Polwarth) - On a point of overlooked -- order, Mr Speaker, on a recent occasion there were only a couple of members of the government present Mr Kennedy interjected. and on one occasion not even the Minister responsible for the Bill was present. The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable member for Bendigo West is out of order. At the The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable point at which the honourable member for Polwarth member for Polwarth has indicated to the House rose I had overlooked the fact that the call should that he finds the words used by the Treasurer to be have gone to the government side in accordance offensive; 1 assume those words are the words with the precedent established quite some time ago. referring to members of the Liberal Party. 1 ask the Accordingly, I uphold the point of order and call the Treasurer whether he is prepared to retract those Treasurer. words.

Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - The position Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - As is the we had outlined before us - that is a very mature custom in this House, if the honourable member performance! found the words offensive I withdraw them.

Honourable members interjecting. The SPEAKER - Order! The Treasurer may proceed. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - It is interesting to note that this is an opposition motion and that the Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - On the motion, which opposition has indicated its support for it by does not seem to enjoy a great deal of support from deserting the Chamber. the opposition parties given the number of members of the opposition who are conspicuous more by their Mr Tanner interjected. absence than by their presence -- DEFERRED LIABILITIES

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Mr I. W. SMITH (Polwarth) -On a point of Chair to compel the withdrawal of the offensive words, order, Mr Speaker, I find those remarks offensive or, in default, by the punishment of suspension. and I ask that they be withdrawn. However, criticism of a member of the House of Lords for his acts in another capacity has been permitted. The SPEAKER - Order! It is the responsibility of the Chair to assist in maintaining order in the That is not relevant to the current circumstances. House. Although an honourable member has a May continues: general entitlement to seek the withdrawal of words that he or she finds offensive, the Chair has a Expressions which are unparliamentary and call for responsibility to ensure that that right is used in a prompt interference include: responsible way that facilitates the order of the (1) The imputation of false or unavowed motives ... House. (2) The misrepresentation of the language of another In the past few minutes I have been listening and the accusation of misrepresentation ... carefully to the words of the Treasurer and to the (3) Charges of uttering a deliberate falsehood ... other contributions that have been made. I suggest to the honourable member for Polwarth that the (4) Abusive and insulting language of a nature likely to request he has made, although he is within his rights create disorder. The Speaker has said in this to make it, is difficult to reconcile with the good connection that whether a word should be order of the House. Accordingly, at this stage I will regarded as unparliamentary depends on the not ask the Treasurer whether he will withdraw the context in which it is used. words in question. For example, expressions which are unparliamentary when applied to individuals are not always so Mr I. W. SMITH - On a further point of order, considered when applied to a whole party. Mr Speaker, I entirely respect your wishes to return the House to a state in which honourable members A charge that a member has obstructed the business of can make appropriate contributions to debates, but the House or that a speech is an abuse of the rules of the Treasurer must realise that if he continues to cast the House is not out of order. aspersions on honourable members it is within the rights of the members on whom aspersions are cast A member is not allowed to use unparliamentary to ask for them to be retracted. words by the device of putting them in somebody else's mouth. Although I respect your ruling, surely it would be reasonable and even handed of the Chair to ask the The quotation I have just cited refers to a number of Treasurer not to be provocative. aspects well beyond the matter raised by the honourable member for Polwarth in his point of The SPEAKER - Order! It may assist the House order. if I refer to the relevant sections of May's Parliamentary Practice. Nevertheless the reference makes the point that there is not an absolute and unlimited opportunity I advise honourable members that Standing Order to ask for words to be withdrawn on the basis of No. 108, which is the Standing Order on which the their being found or claimed to be offensive. honourable member for Polwarth relies, refers to offensive or unbecoming words, imputations of Mr I. W. SMITH - On a further point of order, improper motives and personal reflections on Mr Speaker, I thank you for that quotation from May members. which simply reinforces the opposition's point that aspersions cast on a party are not at the root of the The relevant section occurs in the twenty-first ability of a member to ask for a retraction. edition of May at page 381, where expressions that are unparliamentary are defined: In view of the reference you have read from May, I ask you to consider adjourning the House for a short Reference in debate to either House of Parliament must time to consider the implications of the quotation be courteous, and abusive language, and imputatiOns from May and, after doing so, to restore the of falsehood, uttered by members of the House of equilibrium of the House. Commons against members of the House of Lords have usually been met by the immediate intervention of the DEFERRED LIABILITIES

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Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National misrepresenting the quotation from May that I read Party) - On the point of order, Mr Speaker, during in my recent ruling. I do not uphold the point of the division the honourable member for Gippsland order. East expressed his concern about the ruling made by the Chair that led to the suspension of the Mr McNAMARA - On a further point of order, honourable member for Brighton; and the section Mr Speaker, I urge you to seriously consider the from May that you have just quoted clearly amplifies direction in which the Chamber is heading. We must the honourable member's comments. ensure that we address this matter.

May clearly states, as you have just read to the I ask you to briefly adjourn the House; and I ask for House-- a motion to reinstate the honourable member for Brighton-- The SPEAKER - Order! The matter before the Chair is the point of order raised by the honourable The SPEAKER - Order! I have already ruled member for Polwarth. This is not an opportunity to that I am not prepared to adjourn the House. I am revisit a decision of the House, being the decision on also not prepared to hear a further point of order on the motion recently carried by the House and the the matter. issues relevant to that motion. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - I shall pay due If the Leader of the National Party wishes to speak regard to the sensitivities of the House by referring to the immediate issue raised by the honourable to the motion before it and to the propositions being member for Polwarth, he will be in order. If he seeks put by the opposition. to canvass issues already determined by the House, I will not hear him. We are at the stage where we have to decide the future of government trading enterprises. The other Mr McNAMARA - Mr Speaker, by quoting side of the House has one view and this side of the from May in your ruling you have reinforced the House has its view about the future of the general issue raised by the honourable member for enterprises. Quite clearly the opposition is locked Polwarth in expressing his concerns about references into the sale of those trading enterprises, and that to a political party rather than to individual has been reiterated in today's contribution. members. References to political parties are not matters that entitle members to personal It sees selling them as a way of resolving the future explanations. of the government trading enterprises. The government has a different view of their future. It is We need to ensure consistency in rulings by the on the basis of that view that the government has Chair, based on the advice you have just given the prepared a substantial package of government House. Like the honourable member for Polwarth, I trading enterprise reforms. The objectives of the hope we try to restore the equilibrium of the House, package are: firstly, to improve the operating and because all honourable members want to ensure that financial efficiency of the government trading this Chamber does not become a farce. enterprises; secondly, to secure proper dividend flow to the people of Victoria from those enterprises; If the ruling is supported - and this was referred to thirdly, to protect and define the community service by the honourable member for Polwarth - the and environmental objectives of the government business of the House will be interrupted on a trading enterprises; and fourthly, to reduce the total minute-by-minute basis. level of public sector debt and to improve the management of that debt. Clearly the direction in May allows an honourable member to refer, for instance, to another political They are four laudable objectives relating to a party as a criminal party but does not allow an particular view of government trading enterprises. individual member to refer to another member as a There are substantial and persuasive reasons for criminal. retaining essential services in the hands of the government and the people of Victoria. The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the National Party appears to be very close to breaching Clearly, that is not the view of the opposition. It has the direction he was recently given. It also appears nailed its flag to the mast of privatisation, and that is that he did not hear, misunderstood or is really what today's debate is all about and that is the DEFERRED LIABILITIES

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debate we will be locked into over the next twelve In terms of the Victorian Equity Trust the months as the community discusses the future of government, as it was obliged to do, had to either government trading enterprises. wind it up at the end of this financial year or roll it over. We came to the conclusion that it was in the In selling them off, one realises only their asset value best long-term interests of Victorians to wind up the and forgoes their future revenue stream and retains trust, and that view is supported by the opposition. their debt. On the other hand, they can be seen as playing a continuing and large part of the public The end result is that the statutory authorities will sector. Quite clearly, the government is committed accept their responsibility for the proportion of the to retaining them in the public sector. loans raised by that means.

It is important to understand the background With regard to strategic positioning of the against which the reform package is being government trading enterprises in relation to developed and to understand the issues to which it nation-wide initiatives, it is important to recognise responds. that the nature of the Australian economy has changed as a result of not just Federal economic The first point concerns the markets and what we policy during the 1980s but because of the believe is the inadequa te financial return from inevitability of changes in the world economy government trading enterprises to the State. The during that period. second point is the high gearing levels of the government trading enterprises. For example, the Whether we like it or not we are now in an SECV has a debt to equity ratio of four to one. internationally competitive situation. All of Australian industry is in that situation including the The third point is the relatively low productivity of government trading enterprises. The outcome of this the government trading enterprises, and the fourth is the need both to revise some existing structures issue is the dragging down of Victoria's credit rating and practices and to acknowledge the considerable performance because of the perceived pooling of the opportunities for Australians and Victorians, which Budget and non-Budget sector. emerge as a result. Not the least of which is the potential for a national electricity grid, which has The fifth point - and this is one of the most been announced by the Prime Minister. Victorians important considerations - is the strategic must place themselves so as to achieve the positioning of government trading enterprises in maximum advantage from it and we must relation to nation-wide initiatives that are now at participate competitively in that grid. hand; and, finally, part of the package - and it has been demonstrated this week - is the resolution of Mr Weideman - Just say you support it! the Victorian Equity Trust and discussion on the future of the flexible tariff management unit. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - Of course we do. The potential in that area is considerable, with the links The Victorian Equity Trust was a vehicle for with South Australia, Tasmania and the plugging borrowing of funds on behalf of the authorities, into the New South Wales system. Doing so means which proved very satisfactory at the time. positioning the SECV so that it can play an important role in that future. Mr Coleman - For whom? The same applies to the Gas and Fuel Corporation Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - For the authorities and for and Melbourne Water. New initiatives are being the people who invested in it. addressed in that area. One of the most important outcomes from the corporatisation of Melbourne Mr Col em an - What about the taxpayers? Water and the dragging in of a number of other water authorities is the important environmental Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - They hold assets on behalf and financial outcomes. of the taxpayers. The taxpayers of Victoria own those trading enterprises and will do so under the The package expedites the strategic positioning of proposition the government puts forward, not under the government trading enterprises in relation to the proposition the opposition puts forward. future opportunities in Australia, and by so doing places itself very well within the broader international context so that, to the extent to which DEFERRED LIABILITIES

466 ASSEMBLY Thursday. 26 March 1992 our trading enterprises are operating on a best through, but the basis of the negotiations with the practice basis, the community and industry in authorities is that they remain in government Victoria benefit if we can provide those services at a ownership, that an effective debt for equity and low and efficient cost. Therefore, the strategic dividend swap is arranged, that detailed positioning of the government trading enterprises in performance plans are developed, that the situation relation to nation-wide initiatives is very important. concerning the Victorian Equity Trust (VET) is resolved - this has already been achieved - that With regard to our credit rating, one of the issues relating to the Flexible Tariff Management difficulties for Victoria that is not experienced in Unit Trust (FfMUT) are worked through, that other States is the perceived pooling of public sector assurances about the retention of credit ratings are debt. The Budget and non-Budget sectors are maintained and that professional boards are perceived as having and sharing the one pool of appointed. debt. One of the reasons for this fact is that the trading enterprises are not seen to be operating on a It is anticipated that over the next three months the competitive, commercially orientated basis. government will work through the considerable detail so that legislation is ready for May and the Related to that fact is the government guarantee changes are put in place for the next financial year. which is a matter we will negotiate through this period with the authorities. Mr Cooper - That is July.

The government's credit rating is important for Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - That is correct. The investment in Victoria. legislation will be introduced in May. As I indicated earlier, the government will create a robust Mr I. W. Smith - Mr Speaker, I direct your commercial relationship with the government attention to the state of the House. trading enterprises and will ensure that the duties and competence of the boards reflect the Quorum formed. government's requirements. It will also ensure that an appropriate commercial reporting arrangement, Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - In the context of the such as a negotiated business plan, is established reform of government trading enterprises I was and that financial arrangements are consistent with referring to the pooling of Budget and non-Budget commercial practices so that the appropriate taxes or sector debt. It is important to demonstrate the the equivalent charges are paid. difference between Budget and non-Budget sector debt. It is also important that the government be The payment of dividends will be determined on an seen to be managing the long-term government after-tax and commercial basis. The government will guaranteed debt in the most efficient and effective seek to protect its revenue base and ensure it has at way. Currently Budget sector debt is managed least a neutral Budget outcome. Over a period it will differently from non-Budget sector debt. That produce stronger dividend flows to the Budget arrangement is contrary to the situation in New sector. The government will also ensure there are South Wales, Queensland and in most countries clear mechanisms for the provision of community throughout the world. services and environmental objectives.

Significant management and market-related The government guarantee will be discussed with opportunities are derived from having a central the trading enterprises. Clearly, their debt is borrowing authority. To that end the government guaranteed by the government, but whether the has established Treasury Corporation of Victoria. It trading enterprises issue new debt on the basis of a will enable the government to make significant guarantee is a matter that will be negotiated with savings in the management of debt. Legislation in them. For example, in New South Wales a charge is support of that corporation will be introduced later made for the issuing of that government guarantee. this session. It is important that government trading enterprises manage debt effectively, and use modem The government's objectives will require legislative technology and modem marketing and work changes to the Acts of the authorities so that there is practices so that they are internationally competitive. a consistent approach or, indeed, over-arching legislation that ensures a consistent application The major elements of the government's package across the authorities and establishes clear signals to involving debt restructuring are still being worked government trading enterprises of government DEFERRED LIABILITIES

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requirements, but requires a reduced number of We believe we can achieve substantial efficiency, consequential amendments to other Acts. good dividend flows and the resolution of the debt issues within the framework of public ownership of The debt strategy program will facilitate GTEs. We look forward to improving the operating negotiations with the Commonwealth and will be in and financial efficiency of the GTEs. keeping with our Australian Loan Council obligations. Mr I. W. Smith - Mr Speaker, I direct your attention to the state of the House. The government has already made considerable progress on this matter. The major initiative Quorum formed. explained in the Premier's June economic statement is under way. As the honourable member for Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - I was reiterating the Brighton said, Mr Theophanous, the Minister government objectives: firstly, to improve the assisting the Minister for Manufacturing and operating and financial efficiency of government Industry Development with responsibility for trading enterprises; secondly, to secure a proper Corporatisation, consulted with more than twenty dividend flow for the people of Victoria: thirdly, to government trading enterprises (GTEs) and trade protect and define community service and wlions and released a discussion paper in December environmental objectives of the GTEs; and fourthly, 1991, which has caused considerable discussion. to reduce the level of debt in that sector.

There has been considerable support for the reform We believe the package that we will put to the of the government trading enterprises. The support authorities and then will bring to the House will has come from the broad community, the GTEs achieve that. We will get an improvement in the themselves and the people working within them. currently high gearing level of GTEs. We will get The criteria for judging these policies is their effect better productivity. We will be able to strategically on the lives and opportunities of ordinary position the GTEs with regard to nationwide Victorians. As a result of this package of reforms the initiatives such as the national electricity grid. lives and opportunities of ordinary Victorians will be enhanced. We have already been able to resolve the Victorian Equity Trust problems and it is our intention to The benefits of the debt strategy will begin to flow come back to the House in May with legislation that from the beginning of the next financial year. This is will finalise those arrangements and provide futures the time to decide whether government trading for the authorities in public ownership. We will have enterprises remain in public ownership and that the opportunity of creating social wealth which will efficiencies are sought from them or whether they benefit Victorians and which will enhance the lives are privatised. The question of whether they should and opportunities of Victorians. If we can establish be retained so that the community will gain the GTEs on an international best practice basis, we maximum profit is a matter that must be decided by will then have benefits flowing through to the the people of Victoria. We believe a strong and private sector: to areas such as manufacturing and persuasive case can be made for the retention of mining. these utilities within the public sector because of the substantial benefits that flow from them. The timetable we have set to achieve that goal is ambitious. A lot of work will be required over the The opposition is strongly committed to next few months and it will be necessary to privatisation which means that not only will the concentrate on those objectives in a way that will community lose ownership of the GTEs but also it demand that all parties spell out their views on the will lose the dividends that will stream from them in future of these great Victorian assets. It is important perpetuity and also a residual debt would remain that we act in a positive way because the GTEs have with the public sector. a great deal to offer Victorians. It is our responsibility to ensure they operate in the One can examine the efficiencies of GTEs in other long-term interests of the community. countries; for example, 95 per cent of efficiencies achieved by the Yorkshire Water Board in England The SPEAKER - Order! The time appointed were achieved while it was in public ownership. under Sessional Orders for Government Business to take precedence has now arrived. The Treasurer FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

468 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 26 March 1992 may continue his remarks when this matter is next the lapsing period being brought into effect. For that before the Chair. reason, the opposition does not oppose clause 3.

Debate interrupted. The $150 surcharge will be applied in addition to the 15 per cent levy already charged, so a considerable Sitting suspended 1 p.m. until 2.5 p.m. amount of money will go to the federation, enabling it to provide better facilities for its constituent FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) bodies, such as individual species fisheries. BILL The federation held an annual meeting in December Second reading last year and that meeting agreed to the $150 surcharge as a mechanism to fund the federa tion. Debate resumed from 19 March; motion of The coalition opposition does not oppose the Mr HARROWFIELD (Minister for Finance). surcharge on the licence.

Mr COLEMAN (Syndal) - The Bill was The Bill contains provisions that require further introduced last Thursday and the opposition took discussion. Clause 4 deals with a penalty for the the opportunity of having a briefing on the Bill on illegal possession of abalone. Every time a debate Tuesday, two days ago. It is said that a week in concerning abalone has occurred in this place, the politics is a long time; a week and two days is longer opposition has argued for a provision similar to that because the Premier told us Tuesday week ago how contained in clause 4. The clause provides for half a important it was to improve the image of politicians, penalty unit, an amount of $50, to apply in respect of yet the arrangements on this Bill made between each abalone in excess of the bag limit taken by any Thursday and Tuesday of this week have been person who is not the holder of a current abalone breached. fishing licence. The current bag limit is ten.

In the course of the briefing it became clear that the In some instances, that penalty will amount to a issue of licences for fishing was fundamental to the significant sum because some people trading in operation of the industry. As of 31 March this year abalone are determined to make a living from it all licences lapse and those people holding without actually buying their way into the industry. cornmerciallicences will not be in possession of a An abalone fishing licence in those circumstances current licence. Realising the importance of that, the would probably cost $1 million! Those fishermen are opposition has attempted to facilitate the passage of illegally taking the same quantity as is caught legally the Bill to ensure that people legitimately going by licensed fishermen, thereby placing a severe about their businesses as commercial fishermen have strain on the resource. Also, the government is a licence to cover that activity. deprived of appropriate income. This measure will go some way towards deterring those without Clause 3 relates to an additional surcharge of $150 to licences who fish for abalone. be placed on each master fisherman's licence or a processor's licence. That surcharge has been agreed A major problem with the process is the need to upon by the industry. The Natural Resources and obtain a conviction in the courts, following which Environment Committee of Parliament has been the proposed penalty system applies. The involved for a lengthy period with terms of Department of Conservation and Environment has reference dealing with the bays and inlets along the established an abalone task force which has been Victorian coast and the Victorian Fishing Industry aSSiduously working at controlling poaching. Four Federation has been intimately involved in the fishermen have been imprisoned as a result of preparation of material for that committee. It was successful court action taken by the department. The only reasonable that the federation should be considerable effort made by the task force has supported by fishermen in putting to that committee resulted in many officers being threatened; working information that would contribute towards the in small groups, they have been exposed to outcome of the committee's deliberations. considerable physical pressure from illegal operators.

If licences are not renewed by 14 April, they lapse. Illegal abalone fishing is causing much concern in Therefore it is important to debate the Bill today to the small towns adjacent to the waters where it is ensure that licences can be issued in time to prevent most prevalent. The half penalty unit provided for in clause 4 is entirely consistent with what the FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

Thursday, 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 469 opposition has argued for in this House every time a now the government is asking the community, in a Bill concerning abalone fishing has been debated. period of economic downturn, to adjust very quickly. For that reason the opposition supports that provision. Apart from the work done by the Natural Resources and Environment Committee, nothing has been The third provision about which there may be done about the sustainability of resources in considerable debate concerns commercial fishing in Tamboon Inlet and lakes along the Gippsland coast. Tamboon Inlet. During the past 24 hours discussions That fact is inherent in many of the with the government resulted in an understanding recommendations made. There is a scarcity of that this provision would be dealt with in another information on which decisions can be made. Bill. Recreational fishermen are urging the government Dr Napthine interjected. to remove protection from the activities of professional fishermen. It is not a unique situation; it Mr COLEMAN - Which pledge? None now is simply an issue of resource distribution that the operates, and even their own pledgers will not stick government should address. with them any more; they vote for other people when the opportunity to vote arises! Funds are required to allow research to be undertaken into available resources but the The department estimates that the commercial government will not face the issue of applying a fishing industry at Tamboon Inlet produces licence fee to amateur fishermen. Each commercial 30 tonnes of fish a year. The Minister's fishing licence that is withdrawn means a second-reading speech refers to "only 30 tonnes" but percentage of the licence fee cannot be used for I wonder whether the Minister has ever seen research. Funds which could be applied to study 30 tonnes of fish go off - it is a lot of fish! fisheries along that coast for the benefit of both professional and amateur fishermen are not being Dr Napthine - And a lot of stink. generated.

Mr COLEMAN - Yes, and a lot of stink. Thirty Today the government is attempting to close down tonnes of fish at $3 a kilogram amounts to a fishing operations without sufficient information on Significant sum. Only four licences have been issued sustainable resources and without proper for fishing operations at Tamboon Inlet, and only consideration of the effect of another eleven jobs one is worked on a regular basis. In that small being lost in a small community. The LCC commtmity eleven people are employed by the recommendation referring to the phasing-out period licensee and that isolated town will be considerably foresaw no difficulty in terminating fishing activities. disrupted by the passage of this legislation. Because of the Bill eleven people in and around Tamboon This argument returns me to the old question about Inlet will no longer be employed. a group of people in the community believing that no-one should make a profit from public land; that is Mr Maclellan - All part of the government's what drives the government's consideration. In this jobs program. case, Tamboon Inlet, a secluded stretch of coast in the far east of Victoria and a Mecca for many Mr COLEMAN - An interesting comment. The devoted East Gippsland tourists, has been yielding Bill is being debated in the same week that the 30 tonnes of fish a year for a considerable period. Premier has made a Ministerial statement about jobs. It is necessary to review the capacity of Tamboon The recommendations of the Land Conservation Inlet to sustain continued commercial fishing. I Council (LCC) following the East Gippsland review understand that in the past 24 hours Parliament had refer to commercial fishing. Recommendation A6 the ability to do that, and today we are faced with deals with the Croajingolong National Park and the choice of either the baby or the bath water. The recommends that commercial fishing at Tamboon issuing of licences is a fundamental problem for the Inlet be phased out by December 1991. Imagine the department, as is the illegal possession of abalone, trauma that recommendation, if implemented, which will attract a significant charge. The problem would have caused for the residents! Originally the is that the Bill will close a viable fishing industry in recommendation allowed for a period during which an area of Victoria with a high rate of the community could adjust to that phasing out, but unemployment. Given the downturn in the FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

470 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 26 March 1992 economy, there should be some opportunity of If the Premier were serious about her Ministerial negotiation to maintain that employment. statement on the conduct of Parliament, this issue would be dealt with as a matter of urgency. Her The Land Conservation Council would not have Ministers and the government have broken that recognised that situation when it made its tradition. recommendations. Victoria was not in the parlous state it is in today. Recommendations were made on The Bill has been precipitated by the industry, which information collected over the decade preceding sees it as important to its welfare. The honourable 1985 when different economic circumstances member for Syndal has said that the coalition is prevailed. prepared to facilitate the passage of those sections of the Bill which deal with the Victorian Fishing The opposition opposes that part of the Bill. The Industry Federation. However, the coalition is not proposed legislation was introduced on the basis prepared to facilitate the provisions dealing with that the opposition must accept the lot or nothing. Tamboon Inlet. We tried to avoid that over the past 24 hours. If one takes the government on trust, one finds that that It has given an undertaking to the relevant bodies trust is breached. Experience should be a good that it will seek to accommodate them to enable the teacher. Opposition members recognise that the industry to achieve its goals. The coalition indicated future of Victoria is worth looking after, and that that Tamboon Inlet was not a clear-cut issue and that commercial operators require a licence to fish. Those additional time was required to ensure that those fishermen should have the opportunity of renewing affected by the Bill were given adequate opportunity their licences after 31 March. of putting forward views to allow the coalition to make a considered judgment based on fact and I hope during the course of the debate a different available evidence. That has not been possible. For process of handling the Bill will be established. that, the government should be condemned. There is considerable apprehension about the passage of the Bill. We all acknowledge the need for The SPEAKER -Order! I direct the attention of the issuing of licenses and the implementation of the honourable member to the fact that the matter penalties for poaching abalone. The government has been brought on as a result of a decision of the should acknowledge' that eleven jobs in East House. Gippsland are important and worth fighting for. That particular section of the Bill should not be Mr J. F. McGRATH - I believe I am in order in passed, it should be reintroduced in a new Bill. detailing the reasons why the coalition was prepared to allow the House to debate this Bill as a matter of I hope those who were part of the briefing can urgency, but Tamboon Inlet was not a part of that vindicate some of the statements that have been agreement. I respect the House in giving the made. I am sure they left that briefing with not only industry the opportunity of making its views heard. the same realisation of the urgency of the proposed The government has breached the confidence of the legislation but also the same apprehension about the House, the opposition and the industry by including way it has been introduced. Tamboon Inlet in the provisions of the Bill.

Mr J. F. McGRATH (Warmambool) -In this The Bill has been introduced because of the debate on the Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill I importance of the federation to the fishing industry, join with the honourable member for Syndal in its management and the different factions within it. condemning the government for failing to honour a As a group, one of the most recent issues in which commitment made outside this House. If tripartite the federation took a high profile was the debate agreements in Parliament are to work in the way about scallops in Port Phillip Bay. they are supposed to they should be honoured. The federation represented the views of fishermen Agreement by the three parties was reached to about their livelihood, future planning and facilitate changes that will help the Victorian fishing arrangements for future fishing in Port Phillip Bay. industry. The government has backed down on an That was one tangible example of what the arrangement that has been made outside of this federation can do, is prepared to do and is House. responsible for in protecting fishing rights in Victoria. FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

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The fishing industry is a vital part of our community maximum surcharge of $500 based on the current in Victoria. It has a significant impact on the beach price of abalone. economy of Victoria - such activities as the purchase of recreational fishing equipment bring a These two sections of the fishing community have lot of money into the Victorian economy. The supported the Bill and have sought the cooperation commercial sector employs people in wholesaling, of the National Party and the opposition in processing of the catch and so on. facilitating its passage through Parliament.

The federation consists of a group of people who Clause 4 deals with the everlasting problem of have a significant influence on the welfare of the abalone poaching. Since I have been a member of economy of the State. The honourable member for this House I cannot recall one sessional period, Syndal was seeking to facilitate and encourage the certainly not one year, where abalone poaching has federation by accommodating its request to deal not been mentioned. with the Bill. The fishing industry generally accepts the $150 surcharge for the renewal of a master Mr Coleman - One session! fisherman's licence. The commercial fishermen with whom I have spoken who hold master fishermen's Mr J. F. McGRATH - The honourable member licences are happy with that figure. Only one suggests there has been one sessional period since I fisherman expressed concern about additional have been a member of the House when illegal charges. Mr Howard Willoughby, who represents fishing has not been raised. It is a major problem for the professional fishermen at Port Fairy, welcomed a couple of reasons. Firstly, these people are making the surcharge. He believes every fisherman must be significant sums of money outside the industry. licensed to ensure that the resource is properly Secondly, they are not professional fishermen and managed to enable fishermen and their families to do not care what size fish they take. Their actions continue to enjoy the life of professional fishing. have a dramatic effect on the resource. These people That has been the case for many families in Port will take anything they catch and undersized fish Fairy. mean nothing to them. They do not care about the resource or about the abalone industry in Victoria. A representative of a group of professional fishermen told me, ''Yes, we support the $150 In the past illegal abalone fishermen have been surcharge because it will go to the Victorian Fishing apprehended and taken to court and have been Industry Federation, will be properly used and will given token fines that pale into insignificance when secure our future fishing requirements in this State one considers what they can obtain for a bucket of for decades". The abalone fishermen will pay a processed abalone. On the black market illegal maximum surcharge of $500 while the master fishermen can obtain three-quarters of the $17 or $18 fishermen will pay $150. It is interesting to note that a kilogram that is paid through the abalone although the issue or renewal fee for master wholesale process on the legal market. Honourable fishermen will increase by $150 the fee for abalone members should be aware that the poaching of fishermen will increase by a maximum of $500. abalone is still a major problem in Victoria. Abalone fishermen are happy to accept that because they believe the fees will be used by the federation Although there has been a change in attitude in the to protect their interests and assist in the courts when dealing with illegal fishermen, we have management of the resource. not yet touched the core of the problem. In addition to the fine of $50 a fish over the legal bag limit other The abalone industry has a distinguished record in issues raised by the abalone industry must be self-management. It could be held up as an example addressed. I hope the courts will view the fine of $50 to many other Australian industries for its concern a fish as an additional penalty. about the conservation of the abalone resource. The industry was prepared to agree to fishermen taking Or Napthine - Absolutely! fewer abalone in anyone year. They were prepared to accept a reduction in their incomes in the interests Mr J. F. McGRATH - The last thing we want to of the long-term management and survival of the happen is for the $50 fine for every fish over ten to resource. Not many industries have a long-term be used instead of the normal penalty. It should be vision that allows them to make such tough applied in addition to the existing fine for abalone decisions. The federation has demonstrated its poaching. The industry and the federation will concern by agreeing with the imposition of a watch that carefully. Educating the legal fraternity FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

472 ASSEMBLY Thursday. 26 March 1992 on poaching at the Magistrates Court level has been Victorian economy, and I will make sure they get a a long and slow process. At times illegal fishermen copy of the debate. have walked away with insignificant fines compared with the value of their catches on anyone day. Clause 5, which deals with Tamboon Inlet, is the point where my support for the Bill ends. This is Poachers have become very clever. They park their where the breach has occurred. The government, cars 5 or 6 kilometres away and walk to the beach. together with the opposition and the department, They swim out into the sea, catch the abalone and agreed that it was absolutely vital that the Bill be return to a different area where a colleague is hiding dealt with urgently because of the date -31 March in the sand dunes. They drop their catch and move 1992 - set for the commencement of the Act. For along to another area and repeat the exercise. They that reason the National Party was prepared to have become very sophisticated in poaching abalone circumvent traditional party policy on dealing with and it has become increasingly difficult for proposed legislation. We were prepared to dispense departmental officers to apprehend them, given the with that practice to facilitate the fishing industry lack of resources throughout the State. contingent on one condition: that Tamboon Inlet would not be part of the Bill. In fact, we were told a In south-western Victoria the department is clean Bill with no reference to Tamboon Inlet would undermanned and poorly resourced. It is very be drafted and presented to the House. Tamboon difficult for departmental officers to be vigilant in Inlet would then be included in a separate Bill so protecting the valuable fisheries because the that the normal adjournment period could be used resources are not available. for consultation with affected fishermen, local communities and other interested parties before Dr Napthine - Despite the exorbitant fees! making a decision and debating the Bill.

Mr J. F. McGRATH - I take up the interjection Confidence and trust has been breached. It is a sad of the honourable member for Portland, disorderly reflection on the government, whose members are as it was. If one considers what might be called the prepared to penalise yet another section of the exorbitant fees that abalone fishermen pay, is it any Victorian community on whatever basis. I am not wonder that they, their families and the people who sure what it is that drives members of the work for them are so angry? government, whether it is pigheadedness, a head-in-the-sand approach, or ignorance. I cannot Mr Micallef - It sounds as though it's pretty understand why the government has jeopardised the lucrative! passage of the Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill by not honouring the commitment it made at its Mr J. F. McGRATH - That is the view of an East own instigation. The opposition did not suggest that Melbourne capitalist who wants to undertake capital Tamboon Inlet be left out of the Bill; it was put by development in East Melbourne! They get jealous the government as a method of achieving tripartite when other people start making money. Abalone agreement on the proposed legislation. fishermen work very hard for many hours a day. Diving underwater is a strenuous occupation. Anybody who considers the matter in that light will Although other people may be jealous, not many are acknowledge that little alternative exists but to bury prepared to invest up to perhaps $500 000 in a boat the Bill. If the government is not prepared to deal and licence. with Tamboon Inlet separately, the opposition is not prepared to debate the Bill. We will wait until we Mr Micallef interjected. have had adequate time to consult with the fisherman who fishes in Tamboon Inlet and the Mr J. F. McGRA TH - It is very easy to sit back other licence holders, those eleven people who also in your soft, cushioned chair and criticise people will be affected by the passing of the Bill. Those who invest in their livelihoods. Members of the people will be denied the tonnage of fish and the government are not prepared to go out and have a incomes of $100 000 or $120 000 to which the go themselves; they are not prepared to get a bit of honourable member for Syndal referred. dirt under their fingernails and do something about improving the Victorian economy. Abalone I hope the fisherman will be able to move his fishing fishermen will be interested in the comment of the operation to another fishery. However, that honourable member for Springvale. They will be information is not available because there has been interested in his view of what they are doing for the no opportunity of talking to Mr Day and discovering FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

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whether he has any confidence in being able to earn Parliament are properly followed and that the Bill is one-quarter, half or all of his income. Honourable not dealt with expeditiously today. members are being asked to make a decision on the spot about the future of one man and his family, As I said, to pass the Bill would be to breach the eleven other employees, and a small community. very foundation of the Parliamentary process. If that cannot be honoured, one must question the integrity I ask honourable members to consider whether such of the people responsible for making a change to the action is in line with the statement made by the Bill in the past 24 hours. If at the end of the Premier the other day in which she referred to second-reading debate the Minister for Finance is government accountability, government propriety, not prepared to withdraw clause 5 and clause l(c), I and the functions of the Parliament. I ask shall actively encourage all members of the coalition, honourable members to consider also whether such both in this House and in the other place, to vote an action is in line with the Westminster tradition. against the proposed legislation as a matter of principle. That principle is the democratic right of Mr Cooper - One would hardly think so! constituents in Victoria to have a say in their future. That is what this is all about: whether people are Mr J. F. McGRATH - To take up the disorderly given a right to have a say in their future. interjection of the honourable member for Mornington, I agree that one would hardly think so. The stupid part is that the overwhelming majority of those who will be affected by the Bill have had an If honourable members read what the Premier said opportunity to have a say. However, the people at in delivering her Ministerial statement on Tamboon Inlet have not had the opportunity to take Parliamentary reform, they will find that they agree part in adequate consultation. As I said, that was with many aspects of it. Most of the time during the acknowledged. Premier's speech I was nodding my head because I agree with and applaud many of the things she said. I reiterate: it is with deep disappointment that I have Honourable members will be aware that for some walked into this House to find that the government time I have been calling for some reform of has wiped away what was suggested by the Parliament. Premier. I thought perhaps the processes of the Victorian Parliament and the democratic principles However, I am bitterly disappointed to have walked that underlie them would be upheld. It seemed that into the House this afternoon after lunch, expecting a breath of fresh air had been introduced into the to debate a Bill that has tripartite agreement based House. However, that is gone and in its wake is a on goodwill and acknowledgment of the importance stench that will lie heavily over the government of the proper functioning of the Parliamentary benches; it will certainly be greater than the stench process, to find that that goodwill has been breached. of 30 tonnes of fish!

I have been put into a difficult position. Although I I trust that when the second-reading debate reaches made a commitment to fishermen in my electorate its conclusion the Minister will have reconsidered that I would support the legislation, I made that the decision and will acknowledge that it is a bad commitment contingent upon the provisions relating decision that is not in the best interests of the fishery. to Tamboon Inlet being deleted from the Bill. The The Bill should not be passed in its present form. Minister has indicated that this is an all or nothing Bill: if that part relating to Tamboon Inlet is not All that we have done today is raise the expectations accepted the Bill will not pass. If that is the way the of members of the fishing industry. The Victorian Minister wants to go, the decision is his. Fishing Industry Federation stands to gain $240 000 instead of $90 000 a year. Honourable members will I am not prepared to listen to the second-reading effectively be saying to the federation, ''You can debate and allow the Bill to pass without adequate whistle for the $150 OOO!" consultation being undertaken with the people who will be affected by it. As I said, if that is the I will not be backward in advising fishermen with Minister's decision, so be it. whom I come into contact about what has happened and why. I do not offer that as a threat; I offer it as a In reality honourable members owe it to Mr Day and promise. The confidence I had that the arrangement his employees, to Tamboon Inlet and to the people would be honoured has been lost. I intend to protect of Victoria to ensure that the democratic processes of my integrity. I will ensure that everyone in the FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

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fishing industry with whom I come into contact is The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Delzoppo) - aware that the agreement has been breached because Order! I suggest that the honourable member for of the decision made by the government. It will not Portland is straying from the Bill. be because of anything the opposition has done that the Bill will not pass. Mr Micallef interjected.

I close with a challenge to the Minister at the table: The ACTING SPEAKER-Order! The from now until the conclusion of the second-reading interjections from the honourable member for debate, he has the opportunity of reversing a Springvale are not appreciated either. decision, the result of which will rest heavily on his shoulders. He is picking up a new responsibility. I Dr NAPTHINE - I am sorry I strayed from the assure him there is a regular flow of fishing Bills Bill but I feel passionate about this matter. It is through this Parliament; he will have ongoing important that we have a process that allows contact with members of the fishing industry. It will democracy to work, and this issue is relevant to this not do his credibility one bit of good if he does not Bill. It was introduced, and the second-reading reverse the decision. The challenge is there and I speech was given last Thursday, when debate on it await the Minister's response at the end of the was adjourned for two weeks. Why did the Minister second-reading debate. not announce there and then that there was a problem with urgency? Why did the Minister not Dr NAPTHINE (Portland) - I support the tell us about the 31 March deadline for master honourable members for Syndal and Warrnambool fishermen's licences? Either he did not know or he in their very useful contributions to this debate. The was trying to con the Parliament and the people yet debate has been brought forward by the government again. as a matter of urgency and this morning leave was granted on the basis of an agreement - this is the Mr Micallef - Was there agreement or wasn't understanding of the coalition parties - about what there? should happen with this Bill. Dr NAPTHINE - This Bill came into the House It was our understanding that proposed section 62A only last week and there was a standard period of relating to Tamboon Inlet would not proceed but adjournment. It was not scheduled to be debated would be taken from the Bill and dealt with as a until 2 April. The opposition was made aware by an separate issue. That agreement has been breached, officer of the department of problems the which is an absolute disgrace. This should cause adjournment could create with the licences that are much embarrassment to the Minister for Finance due to be paid by 31 March -if the Bill were held who is handling the Bill in this House. It further up there would be a surcharge on the licences. A highlights the statement the Premier made in this delay would also mean that fishermen would be House last Wednesday -- fishing without licences and therefore fishing illegally. Mr Micallef - Are you sure there was an agreement? The coalition parties recognised that this could cause problems and tried to facilitate the debate. However, Dr NAPTHINE - The Premier made a statement this also caused problems. I represent an area with about Parliamentary reform and spoke at length Significant fishing interests. I am proud to be about the need for improvement in the processes of wearing the City of Portland tie, which has a whale Parliament and the way democracy works in on it, reflecting the proximity of the city to the sea. Victoria. Like the honourable member for Significant groups in the area will be affected by the Warrnambool, I listened with interest because I am Bill, including abalone, squid and cray fishermen, also interested in Parliamentary reform and ensuring trawl fishermen and fishermen who would be in the that democracy truly works in Victoria. general fishing category. I have had little or no opportunity to consult those fishermen about the Bill. However, since that statement there has been a series of disgraceful performances from the I am aware of the Victorian Fishing Industry government which have been an abuse of Federation and I acknowledge that it plays an Parliament and democracy. Whether it is at question effective role but I have a responsibility to consult time or the ridiculous situation of this morning, this the fishermen in my electorate about a piece of government -- FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

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legislation that directly affects the surcharge on each Or Napthine - What were they? licence and hear their opinions on it. Mr MICALLEF - I ask for them to be I have tried to do that this week. There was no time withdrawn! There is plenty of precedent for asking to write to them. I have tried to contact them by for those words that have been found to be offensive telephone but that has been difficult because this has to be withdrawn without having to repeat each been a good week for fishing and they are not word! I ask to be given the same courtesy as every available. You, Mr Acting Speaker, know about other member of the House! fishing, although your interest is more recreational than professional, so you would know that the Mr Cooper - Poor, sensitive fellow! Diddurns! weather has made this an excellent week for fishing. The ACTING SPEAKER - Order! I believe the We cannot say the fishing industry is doing well and words could be refuted in a debate. The honourable making a great deal of money and ask ourselves, member for Springvale will have the opportunity to ''What is an extra $100 or $500 to abalone refute those words at that time. There is no point of fishermen?" The fishing industry is operating in a order. very difficult economic situation. Many fishermen who employ other people and earn income for the Mr Micallef - It's a disgrace! State and export dollars for Australia are struggling financially. They are finding it difficult to make ends Or NAPTHINE (Portland) - The government meet in this very competitive industry. The market sets the Parliamentary sitting dates in this House is depressed and there are extremely challenging and it should have been aware of the urgency of the export opportunities. They do not have a licence to legislation, so the government had the responsibility print money. in its own hands to ensure that the Bill was brought on in time for the industry to be consulted and for That is not the case, even though the honourable individual members of Parliament to perform their member for Springvale suggests that all fishermen democratic duties of consulting the people in their are naturally wealthy and thinks it does not matter electorate, particularly those who will be directly to them. That is his attitude and the attitude of the affected by it, and reporting their findings to their government. party and to Parliament.

Mr MICALLEF (Springvale) - On a point of The government chose not to sit until St Patrick's order, Mr Acting Speaker, I did not raise this point Day, although in previous years the autumn session of order earlier, but I have been totally has begun in early March or even late February, so misrepresented and I take offence. I ask the we have fallen into the trap of being obliged to rush honourable member to withdraw that remark. the Bill through without proper consultation with the industry and the individual fishermen who will Mr Evans - That's ridiculous! You can't take be affected. The government stands condemned for offence at that! taking that position. Any problems that arise during the passage of the Bill will be purely the fault of the The ACfING SPEAKER - Order! The government. As a result of the way the government honourable member for Springvale finds some of the has handled matters today an impasse exists remarks offensive and I ask the honourable member concerning Tamboon Inlet which threatens the for Portland to withdraw. passage of the Bill. That presents a real dilemma for the government. Or NAPTHINE (Portland) - On the pOint of order, Mr Acting Speaker, I seek advice as to what The opposition has facilitated debate on the Bill in the honourable member finds offensive. What does an attempt to obtain a decision before 31 March he want me to withdraw? about a surcharge to be imposed on fishing licences. The actions of the government today concerning The ACfING SPEAKER - Order! I put it to the Tamboon Inlet have threatened that position. The honourable member for Springvale that he should government has shot itself in the foot through its explain what words he found offensive. deception and untruthfulness.

Mr MICALLEF - Those words he used to The Bill contains three major provisions. Firstly, describe my attitude to the whole lot of fishermen. clause 3(1) imposes an additional surcharge of $150 FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

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in the case of the issue or renewal of a master "(6) the surcharge payable under sub-section (5) shall be fish~rman's li~ence. The surcharge does not apply to an amount not exceeding $500 in respect of the the Issue of a hcence to a pensioner or to the issue or issue or renewal of each abalone licence.". renewal of a processor's licence. The current abalone licence fee is approximately $25 000 and is linked to the beach price of abalone in Under existing legislation people in possession of a ~ complex formula. As a result of this provision, master fisherman's licence or processor's licence pay mstead of paying 15 per cent of $25 000, abalone a 15 per cent surcharge on the licence fee and that fishermen will be required to pay a maximum of helps to fund the Victorian Fishing Industry $500. I understand that most abalone fishermen­ Federation (VFIF). Clause 3(1) imposes an extra there are only 71 licences in Victoria - have been $150 surcharge. involved in the process and accept the $500 surchar.ge. H?wever, I should like the opportunity of I am advised that the current fisherman's licence fee consulting WIth abalone fishermen in my electorate is $180, of which 15 per cent, or about $27, goes to on the issue. the VFIF. This provision imposes an extra $150 surcharge. That means that a person renewing a I ask the Minister to explain how the numbers add master fisherman's licence will have to pay $330, of up. The opposition has received advice from the ~hich $177 will go to the VFIF. That is a significant department which indicates that there are mcrease. I am sure that fishermen in my area would approximately 1100 master fisherman's licences, 110 have appreciated an opportunity of consulting with processor's licences and 71 abalone licences. me as their elected representative, and my According to my calculations, based on what the representing their views in Parliament. surcharge will bring in, the VFIF will receive an extra $200 000. I accept that the VFIF and its constituent subgroups have discussed the matter, sought and obtained the In his second-reading speech the Minister indicated approval of perhaps the majority of fishermen and that the result of the levy would be an increase in the resolved that this is the way to go. However, amount going to the VFIF from $90 000 a year under individual fishermen should be given an the current system to $240 000 a year. Is the opportunity of expressing their views on the issue. I difference of $150 000 because of the exemption of am not saying that the surcharge would not be pensioner licence holders? If so, how many supported by the industry, but honourable members pensioners hold licences? I ask the Minister to have not been allowed an opportunity of consulting explain that apparent difference in his response. properly with their constituents. The limited information received from the industry Since its establishment the Victorian Fishing by the opposition indicates that there is general Industry Federation has been active and effective support for the additional surcharge and that the under the leadership of Ms Melita Proebstl, who as president of the organisation has been active in ~dus~ v~lu~s and supports the work done by the Vlctonan FIShing Industry Federation. On behalf of representing the industry in a wide range of the fishermen in my electorate I can say that the ac~vities and providing moral and financial support VFIF is well respected as the peak body for the to Its members. The VFIF has been effective in industry. bringing together under the one umbrella the previously disparate industry groups of abalone, However, it would have been more appropriate if cray and trawler fishermen. the government had managed its business in such a way that I, as the elected representative of the The provision of additional funding for the VFIF would probably be a productive measure but I am fishe~en of ~ortland, had had an opportunity of consulting WIth them on this change which affects concerned that the debate on the Bill has been them directly. brought forward in a manner which has not allowed individual members sufficient time to consult with Clause 4 deals with the illegal possession of abalone. their constituents. The coalition welcomes this change, which is an attem~t to protect abalone resources and stop Clause 3(2) amends section 15(6) to require abalone poaching. It has been estimated that as many fishermen to pay a surcharge of $500. It states: abalone are caught illegally as are caught legally. That is of concern to Victoria as a whole and to the For section 15(6) of the Fisheries Act 1968 substitute - 71 licensed abalone divers in particular, who, over a FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

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number of years, have made efforts to protect and I reiterate the words of the honourable member for manage this major resource to provide long-term Warmambool in saying that I hope when sustainability. Those efforts are being Wldermined considering fines to be imposed the courts recognise by a growing abalone poaching industry, which, one the words "additional penalty" in the proposed could say, is raping and pillaging the abalone section. resources of Victoria. Every effort must be made to stamp out poaching, which is a blight not only on Magistrates should not interpret the provision as a the fishing industry but on the proper management reason for reducing the fine for illegal fishing. of resources. Magistrates should understand that the additional penalty is to be applied in addition to the stipulated The honourable member for Warmambool has fine for illegal fishing; and abalone poachers deserve outlined to the House the sophisticated means by to have to pay every dollar of the penalty that is which abalone poachers avoid detection. As the imposed. honourable member said, abalone poachers have no regard for proper resource management: they take Proposed section 62A concerns the prohibiting of undersized fish and generally abuse the resource. commercial fishing in Tamboon Inlet. Members of the opposition have outlined the problems that this The sternest possible measures must be taken to deal proposed section has created because they have not with the problem. Existing laws provide that the been given an opportunity to consult with the equipment used by poachers can be seized and people directly affected by the Bill. forfeited to the Crown; and, in laymen's terms, substantial fines are able to be imposed for the I understand that four licensees operate in the area illegal taking of abalone. The fines are insignificant and that some of those licensees employ others. I when compared with the amount of money also Wlderstand that between 80 000 and 100 000 poachers are able to earn on the black market by fish are caught in the inlet annually and that that selling the abalone they have taken illegally. activity produces Significant income for the area.

The beach price for legally caught abalone is I am aware that the Land Conservation Council between $17 and $18; but poachers can make up to (LCC) believes the inlet should be closed to fishing. $10 a kilogram on the black market for even The cOWlcil argues that the inlet would be best undersized abalone. That is an incentive for reserved for use by amateur and recreational poachers to continue to find convoluted ways of fishermen and for tourism. plying their illegal trade. The Department of Conservation and Environment The Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill provides for spokesman who briefed the opposition on the Bill the imposition of significant additional penalties to could not produce any evidence of a conflict deal with poachers. Proposed section 61B states that between the interests of commercial and recreational under the regulations an abalone poacher is: fishermen. He told us of perceived conflicts between the two, but could produce no evidence to show that liable to an additional penalty of It.! penalty unit for each professional fishermen had so reduced the amoWlt abalone in excess of the bag limit. of fish available in the inlet that recreational fishermen and tourists find it W13ttractive. The bag limit for each fisherman is 10 abalone, but some poachers take from 30 000 up to 100 000 The opposition has a difficult decision to make on abalone. A penalty of, say, $50 000 - or half a this clause. We have been denied the opportunity of penalty unit, or $50, for each abalone illegally properly consulting the people affected by the taken - on top of a fine of $1000 for fishing illegally proposed closure. The opposition needs to be given would amount to a Significant penalty, in addition to the time to consult people like Jack Day, a the forfeiture of equipment. That is precisely the professional fisherman who works the area level of penalty needed to stamp out this disgraceful extremely well, as well as other licensees, their and illegal industry. families, and employees. We are talking about jobs and about wealth creation - the sorts of things I Members of the opposition fully support the should have thought the government would be measure and will continue to support any action concerned about. necessary to stamp out poaching. FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

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The opposition is concerned about jobs, just as it is pleasure of meeting, and they do not deserve this concerned about tourism and recreation; and the being done to them! Jack Day and his wife have opposition is very concerned to ensure a proper and spent a lifetime eking out a meagre income from the balanced use of our waterways. fishing industry. The Days are a family of fishermen with long-established connections with the East When the opposition agreed to debate the Bill today, Gippsland fishing industry. the government gave a commitment that clause 5 of the Bill would not be proceeded with. If that It is the height of hypocrisy for a government that commitment is not honoured, the opposition will claims to look after the little man and the rights of find itself in a dilemma. the individual to try to completely wipe out, by the stroke of a pen, this man's way of life and ability to It would be unforttmate if, at the end of the earn a living. I can understand how Jack Day must second-reading debate, the Minister did not agree to feel, because my rights have been wiped out today withdraw clause 5. That would mean that the other by a government that gave the assurance that this clauses of the Bill, all of which have some urgency particular provision would be removed from the about them, would be stymied or held up because of Bill, then obtained leave to proceed with it today, the government's failure to keep its promise to and changed the rules. withdraw proposed section 62A from the Bill. If one of my constituents came to me with a problem Mr EVANS (Gippsland East) - Most of the of that kind and had something like that put over provisions in the Bill have been dealt with effectively him by a businessman in the town, I would advise by my colleagues. I shall concentrate only on him that he had very good grounds for taking the clause 5, which concerns the proposition to close matter to the Ministry for Consumer Affairs or some Tamboon Inlet to commercial fishing. consumer protection group on the groWlds that he had been misled and that he should have some I believe I have been cheated because of the way the means of compensation or restitution of his rights. government has handled the measure. Last night the But, it is done in this House with the imprimatur of honourable member for Syndal told me that the government, and we just have to wear it. discussions between the government and the opposition were proceeding with the intention of In the last few minutes there have been discussions having the Fisheries (Further Amendment) Bill about the logic and commonsense of the debated today, a week ahead of schedule. I was told recommendation of the Land Conservation Council that the discussions centred around the proposition on which this particular provision has been based; that the clause concerning the closure of Tamboon but I am sure it is not news to honourable members Inlet would be handled in a separate piece of tha t, so far as I am concerned, the Land legislation and so would be deleted from the Bill. Conservation Council is just about the last body on earth whose recommendations I would agree with. One of the few remaining rights of individual members is the right to refuse a government leave to Repeatedly, I have told this House that the whole rearrange the order of the business of the House as concept of the Land Conservation Council is set down on the Notice Paper. undemocratic. It consistently rejects the point of view of people who live in the country. I am not sure As I said, according to the Notice Paper the Bill was that even one member of the council actually lives in not to be debated for another week. As you know, the country. It is always the city people living in the Mr Acting Speaker, next week is not a sitting week, most polluted environment in the whole State who so under normal circumstances the Bill would not are telling country people to look after their have been debated for another fortnight. environment.

In my office in Bairnsdale I have a detailed They are trying to protect us in East Gippsland from submission from Jack Day, who called to see me late fouling our own nest and destroying our own last year to direct my attention to the predicament in environment yet they are living in the environment which he, his family and those who work for him that has been changed the most. would find themselves if Tamboon Inlet were closed. The best way I can describe Jack Day is to say They are not prepared to live where one has to take that he typifies the Aussie battler. Jack and his wife all the risks associated with the Australian are two of the nicest people I have ever had the environment, such as bushfires, droughts, floods FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

Thursday, 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 479

and the like. They like to live in their highly There are still hoards of cormorants on the protected, drought-proof metropolitan area and Gippsland Lakes. In fact, the bird life on the lakes pontificate about how we look after our this last season has been incredible, and I cannot be environment in the country. persuaded that the bird life is not taking an immense number of fish out of the lakes. Therefore I do not set much store by the recommendations of the Land Conservation If there happens to be a good season for water fowl, Council. As a local member having represented the particularly those water fowl that eat a fairly large Gippsland area for almost 31 years, I can assure proportion of the fish, obviously the fishermen will honourable members that I cannot recall one case of have a poor season. On the other hand, in some a submission being made to me in any shape or form seasons the water fowl population does not increase about commercial fishing being banned in Tamboon to the same extent and the fishing becomes a good Inlet. deal better. That is perhaps one factor to be taken into consideration. I have received hundreds of submissions regarding the Gippsland Lakes area and Lake Tyers, but I Professional fishermen have issued challenges over cannot recall receiving one asking for the Tamboon the years to the anglers who complain that they Inlet to be closed to commercial fishing. cannot catch fish because of the professionals. They have said, 'We will take you out in the boats with Therefore it seems to me that again the government our sonar equipment, and we will locate a school of is taking the path of least resistance, and wiping fish for you and we will challenge you to hook one". only one body off the map in this case. One or two They suggest that because of certain cycles in the life fishermen do fish commercially in the inlet every of the fish, at certain times they simply do not bite, now and then, but most of them have other interests and that is all there is to it. as well, and while it will affect them adversely, it will not wipe them out in the way it will wipe out The art of fishing is knowing what fish are biting Jack Day. and where and what they are biting on. So if a heap of people in an area do not even know the ordinary The government will not tackle the question of bank principles of trying to hook fish, and complain that fishing on the Gippsland Lakes because of the strong they cannot catch them, it is easy to blame the commercial fishermen's lobby in the region. Instead, professionals; but despite various theories for more the government picks on the little man - the point than 30 years as to why people cannot catch fish of least resistance - and says, 'We will run him into periodically, they still have an absolute bonanza in the ground and make big people of ourselves to the these various inlets because a combination of conserva tionists". circumstances come together to make a good fishing period and just about anybody can go up there, drop That is what it is all about. It will not make the a line and catch a fish. slightest difference to fishing in Tamboon because the neighbouring Sydenham inlet has been closed to Tamboon Inlet is not readily accessible to the general conunercial fishing for as long as I can remember. I public. It is virtually a necessity to have a boat to do am not sure how many years it has been, but I have any good, and the present situation could definitely never heard of anglers flocking to Sydenham Inlet be left as it is. because the fishing is so good there. It fluctuates, and I should add that I am not an angler and I have I am happy to be able to advise the House that I no pecuniary interest in the issue and I do not know understand the government is now prepared to whether the Minister has either, or whether he has accept that this particular clause should be ever been to Tamboon Inlet to try his hand, but the withdrawn from the Bill, and of course we will have fishing in all the inlets including the Gippsland the opportunity at a later date, no doubt, to argue Lakes fluctuates considerably. the pros and cons of whether Tamboon Inlet should be closed. At that stage I will certainly present to the I recall pressure being mounted more than 30 years House more detail on the submissions made to me ago when people wanted a scheme to destroy the by Jack Day and his wife and be accurate in the cormorant rookeries along the Murray and various information I give. I have had to rely entirely on my other places because it was claimed the fishing was recollection of information because the Bill was being ruined by them. brought on so suddenly, but I certainly appreciate the fact that at long last, after considerable argument FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

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put so very forcefully by the honourable member for Melita Proebstl, who has engendered trust and given Warmambool, the government has agreed to confidence to those involved in the federation. withdraw this proposition. The federation's good work was demonstrated Mr AUSTIN (Ripon) - The Bill makes three during problems with the scallop industry, which amendments to the Fisheries Act: it imposes a has working in it people with varied backgrounds surcharge of $150 on all master fishermen; it and outlooks on life. The federation has brought increases the penalties for illegal possession of those people together and its submission and the abalone; and it closes Tamboon Inlet to commercial attitude it adopted on behalf of that industry have fishing. led to sensible and balanced judgements being made about the future of the industry and the research Labor governments are more inclined to close things being done. The federation has allowed that down rather than open them up. The Minister for industry and other fishing industries to speak with Finance said that on average less than 30 tonnes of one voice. fish were taken from the inlet for commercial purposes and that only four commercial fishermen The federation's major source of funding has come were involved. That emphasises the philosophy of from the 15 per cent levy applying to most the government: big is beautiful. categories of commercial fishing licences. That levy raises about $90 000 a year. The imposition of the The honourable member for Syndal said the $150 surcharge on master fishermen and processors opposition would oppose the closing of the inlet. will increase the federation's revenue to The honourable member for Gippsland East spoke approximately $240 000. It will provide for more of the Land Conservation Council, which ~ems to research and a more professional approach than has have a wide charter in its recommendations to occurred to date. government. The government should have a better reason for closing down a fishing resource other In the past 24 hours the government has discovered than that the area around the inlet may become a that the Bill should be rushed through this place national park. I feel strongly about this matter and, because certain licences will become void on now that the government has agreed to the deletion 31 March. Was the Minister aware of that situation? of this provision, I hope there is not continuing debate on it during the second-reading debate and The opposition has raised in Parliament time and the Committee stage. again the issue of penalties for abalone poaching. Up until now nothing has been done. Stronger penalties The fishing industry must be confused about which are needed for those who break the law and more Minister is responsible for the industry. Not long resources are required to enforce the law. ago the Premier was responsible for it; prior to that it was the Minister for Community Services and before The abalone task force has done an outstanding job that the Minister for Tourism. The current Minister with very limited manpower and resources. I know is the former Minister for Education and Training. I that during the latter part of the financial year many hope he knows more about fisheries, the of its craft are grounded because of lack of fuel and environment and conservation than he did about other resources. Those professional officers often use education! their own vehicles or boats to stop illegal activities.

It is extraordinary that the House is debating this Bill Apart from yourself, Mr Acting Speaker, and a few today when honourable members have not had the other honourable members, people in this place do opportunity of talking to their constituents about its not understand the abalone industry. Abalone is an ramifications. Clause 3(1) amends section 15(5) of extremely valuable resource along the southern the Fisheries Act to impose an additional surcharge coast of Victoria. Other countries have had similar of $150 on master fishermen. Proposed new section resources, but poachers and the ignorance of people 15(6) will impose a levy of $500 for the issue or have depleted those resources. Victoria still has the renewal of an abalone licence. One would have time to do something about it. expected that in normal circumstances fishermen would have opposed those levies. The fact that they If the law is carried out sensibly and the money is have not speaks volumes for the work of the used properly, the increase in the penalties will play Victorian Fishing Industry Federation, particularly a part. There have been and still are some ridiculous regulations imposed on the abalone industry and on FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

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the task force that has to deal with poachers. The say about the activities of illegal poachers who are Minister should note, for instance, that if an threatening the lives of departmental officers and enforcement officer apprehends an abalone poacher their families. Someone is going to be seriously hurt he can confiscate his boat, his catch and other if something is not done about this. equipment but not his boat trailer. That is an absurd anomaly. Poaching is such a lucrative business that illegal operators can afford to pay cliff watchers about $200 The honourable member for Portland said poaching for a couple of hours watching. They have is so lucrative that it is estimated almost half the sophisticated equipment - much more abalone taken is taken illegally. It is also suggested sophisticated than the department has - which that many poachers are involved in the drug trade makes it more difficult for the under-resourced because of the money involved. Professional department or the abalone task force to deal with the poachers laugh at the penalties imposed on them. problem. The court may impose a penalty on illegal poachers one day, but the very next day they return to their The honourable member for Syndal referred to illegal activities. Abalone poachers make more master fisherman licences and the revenue that is to money in a day than any penalty they may have be used to pay for research. How will that benefit imposed upon them. The abalone task force needs fishermen? Amateur fishermen would be prepared greater financial support, manpower and equipment to fish in the sea if they felt their recreational but instead the government has placed emphasis on pleasure were being improved as a result of the establishing around Victoria more national parks, money they paid for their licences. They would which are under-resourced. The small resources the welcome improved facilities or improved fishing department has are being directed towards national prospects. parks. It is a matter of out of Sight out of mind! I have said many times that we should not be doing It is important that the activities of the abalone task the same old thing year after year but that we force are coordinated with the Police Force. should be looking to sharing the resource between Increased penalties alone will not solve the problems the amateur and commercial fishermen. Many years in that area. I ask that the Minister impress upon the ago on the south coast between Apollo Bay and Minister in another place the importance of the Warrnambool amateur fishermen could use industry and the severe problems that are affecting craypots. There was never any thought that they it. would catch crayfish for commercial use. They caught crayfish for themselves but that opportunity Many people do not realise how dangerous the job has disappeared although they can still fish for of the abalone task force officers is. They have been crayfish in South Australia. threatened and the situation is getting worse. Recently an officer was doing his duty observing a The resource should be shared. I see no reason why gang of people working illegally when another areas could not be designated for amateur fishing. I member of the group came up behind him, grabbed do not believe commercial fishermen would object him, tied him by his ankles and threw him over a so long as their competitors did not have the cliff. He was left hanging there until he was finally opportunity of fishing close to the shore when they rescued and taken to hospital where he recovered. have to fish much farther out.

Rather than having a side chat it would be better for The legislation deals with two separate issues. We the Minister to listen to this disturbing information recognise that commercial fishermen should not be about officers who are being threatened. Their wives put out of business on 31 March. I await the are also being threatened. Surely the Minister should Minister's response and the outcome of the be listening to the details of such a serious matter. discussions.

Illegal operators are on contract to deliver specific Mr COOPER (Momington) - Uke other quantities of abalone to retailers in Melbourne. If honourable members who have spoken in this they cannot meet the contracts they suffer debate I have Significant commercial and tremendous financial penalties. That is why they recreational fishing industries operating in and will go to almost any lengths to ensure they can around my electorate. The townships of fulfil their contracts. I find it extraordinary that the Mornington, Hastings and Crib Point are home to Minister is not prepared to listen to what I have to many fishermen. Of course around Port Phillip Bay FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

482 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 26 March 1992 and Western Port recreational fishing is a major vigorously. I also direct to the attention of activity. Many people in my electorate earn their honourable members present today that this again livings selling such things as bait and gear to shows how two-faced the government has been recrea tional fishermen. about Parliamentary reform on consultation because the commercial fishermen in my electorate have not The Bill is significant to me and it is significant to the been consulted in a meaningful way. They have commercial fishermen who reside within my been muzzled and the process that is now in place in electorate. I jOin with other honourable members on this Bill has no meaning for them. They are this side of the House to protest vigorously about aggrieved by it and I would have been lacking in the inability to properly consult with those fulfilling my duty if I had not stood up today and individuals concerned about the impact of the expressed my concern and aggravation about the legislation on their businesses and their way of life. process that has been followed.

The Minister delivered his second-reading speech This incompetent government has not been able to after 5 p.m. last Thursday and debate was adjourned schedule its sittings properly to enable Bills to go until Thursday next but of course honourable through the House in time for them to receive members all know that the earliest possible sitting proper community consultation. This is not a day for the resumption of debate was 7 April meaningless Bill, it imposes an additional financial because the House will not be sitting next week. obligation on an important part of the primary industry of this State, the fishing industry, and none I have circulated the Bill to the fishermen in my of us should ever forget how important the fishing electorate and I have asked them to respond no later industry is to this State and how important are the than 6 April. Effectively these people have not had fishermen who go out and battle the elements to the opportunity to have input into the legislation. contribute to the wealth of this State. They have been They will feel as aggrieved as I do. They have lost ignored or forgotten in the Bill. that chance because of the incompetence of the government in not introducing the Bill in time for it The honourable members for Ripon and Gippsland to be properly circulated so that the people whose East mentioned that news has filtered into the House lives will be affected could examine it and then about the question of Tamboon Inlet being resolved. respond to their local members of Parliament. I note that and I look forward to the issue being included in a separate Bill. I reserve my comments Other honourable members have made mention of on Tamboon Inlet to future debate on that measure. the Victorian Fishing Industry Federation which acts on behalf of commercial fishermen around this State However, I want to speak about abalone because it and which has been in consultation with both the is a matter I have brought to the attention of government and the opposition on the Bill. That is Parliament on many occasions. The theft of abalone all very well; the federation may be speaking for 100 has been adequately covered by the honourable per cent of the industry but it would be rare to find a member for Ripon who spoke about the tremendous federation, a union, an organisation or an association problems that occur through the theft of abalone and that speaks on behalf of 100 per cent of its the damage it does to the economy of the industry membership. and the economy of the State. Honourable members should realise that abalone is being thieved not only There are always people who have different views from the waters off the coast of Victoria but also and who express those views at meetings of their along the shoreline of Port Phillip Bay by people associations or unions but who are in the minority. who do not even have to get into boats because they They can go to their local members of Parliament can walk along the shoreline and thieve abalone at with a Bill such as the one before us today and put will - and they do. their views individually. The member of Parliament can make a decision about whether he or she is For many years there has been continual theft of prepared to stand up and represent that minority marine food from the shoreline of Port Phillip Bay. It view in Parliament. does not always end up in the home cooking pot, much of it ends up in restaurants in Melbourne. It is Maybe the commercial fishermen who operate in my being commercially flogged to restaurants and, as electorate could be in a minority and want that view the honourable member for Ripon said, represented here. If so, they have been effectively restaurateurs or wholesalers have contracts out for muzzled and on their behalf I protest most this illegal material and many people are on direct FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

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contract to small restaurants in Melbourne and in Minister for Community Services was Minister for the surrounding suburbs. Conservation and Environment and even to her predecessor, now the Premier. My pleas have been Mr Maclellan interjected. ignored by successive Ministers who could not be bothered getting stuck into the problem. It was all Mr COOPER - I do not know whether they are too much trouble. These people wear green sleeves all represented by Labor members but the likelihood and wave the green banner and call themselves is they are. After the next election there may well be dedicated environmentalists and conservationists a change to that. I suggest to the Minister at the but they have turned their backs on a problem that table, the Minister for Finance, that if he got into his is of monumental importance to the future of the car and drove down to my electorate around Mount fishing industry of this State and of this nation. Eliza and Momington he would find teams of people crawling over the foreshore with big buckets No mention has been made of increasing the stripping everything off the rocks. Included in the resources of the department to police the theft of shallow waters in that area is abalone. abalone, nor has there been any talk by the government of introducing a long-running public It is all very well to talk about increasing penalties. education program to diminish this awful theft of a This Bill has been introduced because of the pressure major resource. Until the government is seen to act that has been applied by the opposition, and on its commitment to increase departmental through that we can start to address the issue. resources - the government's failure to act on its Rather than talking about increasing penalties, it promises and pledges is well known - it will be would be nice if the government started talking regarded by those on this side of the House with a about policing the illegal industry and introducing very large question mark and certainly the education programs to try to educate the people community will not trust the government until who are damaging the environment. action is seen to be taken.

If the government could be persuaded to produce I plead with the Minister to respond to this educational material, I suggest it should be printed important matter; he should make the commitment in a number of languages other than English because sought by honourable members on this side of the many of the people apprehended by officers of the House. If that is not possible today, I ask him to Department of Conservation and Environment use consult with the Minister for Conservation and the defence: "I didn't understand the sign; I don't Environment in the other place so that he will make speak English". They use that excuse as a vehicle to that commitment when the Bill is dealt with by the avoid being charged. Legislative Council.

Such offences are being committed daily, especially Mr HARROWFIELD (Minister for Finance) - I during the warmer months of the year. The damage thank the honourable members for Syndal, being done to the environment of Port Phillip Bay is Warmambool, Portland, Gippsland East, Ripon and no laughing matter because it is destroying the food Momington for contributing to the debate and for cycle of the fish in Port Phillip Bay, which is a major raising important issues. breeding ground for fish. The ultimate damage will be seen through the effect on fish numbers around There is a general recognition of the need to provide the coastline of this State. better resources to the Victorian Fishing Industry Federation, which has played an important role It is not good enough to bring in a Bill that merely since its establishment in 1989 by representing the increases penalties. The Department of Conservation important Victorian fishing industry. The measures and Environment must be given the resources to in the Bill will certainly secure funding for the enable its officers to go out and police this crime, not federation so that its members may continue the only in the waters off the coast but also around the important work already done. shores of Port Phillip Bay. In fact it should be a much easier task to police the shoreline around Port As successive speakers have said, the federation has Phillip Bay than to police the long coastline of played a variety of roles in dealing with the major Victoria. issues confronting the Victorian fishing industry. Mention was made of the recently completed This has not been done despite my pleas to inquiry by the Natural Resources and Environment successive Ministers going back to when the Committee into the allocation of fishing resources, FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

484 ASSEMBLY Thursday. 26 March 1992 and the input of the federation into that inquiry is an Cowes - and additional funding was provided in example of its importance in matters of significance the last Budget for the Dandenong region. affecting the industry. The levy introduced by this Bill will certainly give the federation substantially The honourable member said the government had increased access to funding, which I am sure will be not addressed the problem of additional resources, welcomed. but he is incorrect. It is inadequate to rely upon revenue from penalties; the government has taken a The compulsory levy system is used effectively comprehensive view of tackling the problem elsewhere in Australia where it is used to assist through policing, better education, and an industry organisations to provide permanent awareness of the extent of the problem. support for the industry in any ongoing deliberations with government that affect the fishing The third issue raised related to the closure of industry. By way of comparison, the levies imposed Tamboon Inlet. It is the government's clear intention are: New South Wales, $200; Tasmania, $210; and and preference that the inlet should be closed.The South Australia, $264. recommendation that the inlet should be closed to commercial fishing was made in 1985 by the Land A voluntary levy can pose problems because it does Conservation Council as part of its examination of not provide sufficient resources to allow an the Croajingolong National Park. organisation to do its job effectively and the Bill addresses that problem. It has been claimed here that the government has dishonoured an agreement not to proceed with the The honourable member for Portland said the recommendation. I set the record straight: there was second-reading speech referred to the additional no such agreement. In an attempt to resolve the revenue of $150 000 to accrue from the levy. He is conflict the government said it was prepared to correct in saying that that amount does not include examine the issue when the Bill was between here revenue from processors and abalone licences and and another place. that an additional $50 000 will flow to the federation. I thank him for referring to that aspect. The Minister for Conservation and Environment and I recognise that the Bill has been brought forward Much comment was made about the significance of through the cooperation of the opposition, and the second item in the Bill, namely, providing an particularly by the honourable members for Syndal additional penalty for the illegal taking of abalone. A and Warrnambool, for which I thank them. In the number of speakers referred to the practical spirit of that cooperation we have reached problems involved in fishermen poaching abalone agreement about not proceeding with clause 5 at this and that it is now a very organised activity. A stage. However it is the government's clear number of speakers said that poachers go to great preference that that recommendation should lengths to steal the resource. proceed. I accept what the opposition has put about the matter being further considered, and it will be It is important that the government puts in place dealt with in the Committee stage. effective measures to address that problem. The "per fish" penalty introduced in the Bill is an effective Again I thank honourable members who have way of achieving control. It will closely relate the contributed to the debate. Victoria has a rich fishing penalty imposed to the amount of poaching that industry; it is an important contributor to occurs. employment and provides a range of fish products in this State. The levy introduced by the Bill will The honourable members for Mornington and Ripon help to promote Significant progress towards better spoke about enforcement, and the Department of protection of the resource and a more consultative Conservation and Environment certainly takes the approach within the industry through the Victorian matter seriously and regards it as a significant Fishing Industry Federation. I welcome the priority. improvement to the industry that these reforms \\111 effect. I take up the point made by the honourable member for Mornington that the government has not allocated resources to that area. The number of inspectors has been increased during the past two years - from two to three at Mornington and FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

Thursday, 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 485

Motion agreed to. Mr J. F. McGRATH (Warmambool) -I thank the Minister and the government for acceding to the Read second time. amendment. There was some confusion about the discussions that occurred before the debate. As a Committed. result, 1 made certain comments during the second-reading debate that were challenged by the Committee Minister for Conservation and Environment. Those comments were made on the understanding that an Clause 1 arrangement had been made but the Minister has denied such an arrangement had been made. Mr COLEMAN (Syndal) - 1 move: As an indication of the spirit of cooperation within 1. Clause I, line 14, and page 2, line I, omit "and" and Parliament, the parties were prepared to meet in the paragraph (c). hallway to sort out the matter and returned in a I thank the Minister for Finance for his comments. In spirit of goodwill, seeking to achieve what was view of the sensitivity of the comments made by the hoped to be achieved for the industry: to assist the Minister for Conservation and Environment, it is industry through the Victorian Fishing Industry appropriate that I give my perception of events. Federation. The consultations in the past hour or so Other honourable members who have spoken have both in and outside this place have been fruitful. 1 also been under a certain impression based on the welcome that and look forward to the opportunity advice 1 gave them. of debating Tamboon Inlet in the future.

As I said during the second-reading debate, a Amendment agreed to; amended clause agreed to. number of conversations took place yesterday culminating in a discussion with the Minister for Clause 2 Conservation and Environment about what advice he would seek from his department at the Mr COLEMAN (Syndal) - 1 move: completion of those discussions. 2. Clause 2, line 3, omit "sections 3 and 5" and insert "section 3". It was my perception that consensus was reached that clause 5 would be deleted from the Bill prior to Amendment agreed to. its proceeding. 1 believed it was a question of time. I am prepared to accept there may have been some Mr COLEMAN (Syndal) - 1 move: misunderstanding, although my advice to my 3. Clause 2, lines 7 and 8, omit sub-clause (3). colleagues was based on the understanding 1 had about the deletion of that clause. Amendment agreed to; amended clause agreed to; clauses 3 and 4 agreed to. At the end of the day the process outlined by the Minister at the table will achieve what is necessary Clause 5 in the interests of the fishing industry, per se. To that extend it is important that we press on with the Mr COLEMAN (Syndal) - I move: amendment. 4. Clause 5, omit this clause. Mr HARROWFIELD (Minister for Finance) - Among the issues raised during the second-reading The government is prepared to accept the debate was the want of consultation with people amendment on the basis that the Bill will achieve the involved with Tamboon Inlet. introduction of the surcharge and the increased penalties that were mentioned during the It is necessary to be cognisant of the report of the second-reading debate. I accept the point that the Natural Resources and Environment Committee, opposition needs to further examine the issue of Allocation of Fish Resources in Victorian Bays and Inlets, Tamboon Inlet. It may also be necessary to delete which dealt specifically with Tamboon Inlet. During reference to section 5 in clause 2(1) of the Bill, which the second-reading debate reference was made to 30 can be handled when the Bill is between here and tonnes of fish being obtained from that inlet. The another place. second-reading speech states: FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

486 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 26 March 1992

Tamboon Inlet is normally open for commercial fishing to carry on. Surely this man is entitled to some only from 1 May until 14 October each year and consideration. If he were in private employment produces on average less than 30 tonnes of fish for there would be talk about redundancy, severance commercial markets. pay, long service leave --

It is in that context I wish to refer to the report, Mr Cooper - Retraining! which states at page 107: Mr EV ANS - Retraining and goodness knows From 1916 to 1970 annual commercial catches from what. Private industries are required to compensate Tamboon Inlet ranged between 0 and 60 tonnes and the employees who are placed in this position, but the main species caught were black bream, Australian government has not discussed any compensation or salmon, yellow-eye mullet, luderick, tailor and trevally. assistance to get this man back on his feet after On four occasions (1940, 1949, 1950, 1956) annual throwing him out of Tamboon Inlet. The catches were well in excess of 100 tonnes but these were government wants to arbitrarily wipe him out of due almost entirely to very large catches of Australian existence and leave him for dead. salmon almost certainly taken on open ocean beaches outside the inlet. I appreciate the government's difficulty in not knowing when the Bill would be passed by Tamboon Inlet is on the East Gippsland coast south Parliament and that until then it could not provide a of Cann River. It is an isolated area. One would firm commitment. However, I understand the assume those figures are the figures reported by a clause, which would prohibit commercial fishing in limited number of fishermen who had fishing Tamboon Inlet, was intended to commence on 1 endorsements for that area. May 1992. This gentleman was not going to have much warning of when the axe would fall on him. The report goes on to say: I overlooked asking him whether the government Since the introduction of a limited-entry management had the courtesy of sending him a copy of the Bill. I regime in the early 1970s commercial catches in the have not had the opportunity of sending him a copy inlets have been less than 30 tonnes per annum ... or consulting with him in the week since the Bill has been introduced because, unfortunately, I had left The figure of 30 tonnes a year referred to in the the precincts of Parliament House before the Bill was second-reading notes is that produced under a introduced last week. I did that in the interests of limited entry management regime, not what the saving the government money. If I had waited until fisheries have the potential to yield. On that basis the the Bill was introduced I would have missed my opposition wants a further review of the matter and train and had to stay an extra night in Melbourne would welcome the Minister's comments on the and incur additional expenses. In the interests of introduction of a further separate Bill covering the saving the government money I caught my train at Tamboon Inlet issue so that it can be debated at the usual time on Thursday evening and travelled some later stage in Parliament. home.

Mr EV ANS (Gippsland East) - Less than 1 hour I suggest Mr Jack Day has had a pretty raw deal at ago I received a telephone call from Jack Day, the the hands of the government. It is high time gentleman whose whole livelihood would have been individuals who are prepared to have a go, to back thrown out of existence by the Bill if it had their own skill and judgment and put their money proceeded without the amendment. He asked me into businesses to provide incomes for themselves what was happening with his future. I must admit I receive the support of the government. All this talk was a bit taken back. and nonsense we have been hearing this week about job creation becomes totally meaningless when the Apparently the Bill had proceeded to the government intends wiping out good, hardworking second-reading stage without the government people like the Day family and their employees. having had the courtesy of telling the man most affected what its plans were. From my conversation Mr HARROWFIELD (Minister for Finance) - with him it appears that if the Bill had gone through The govenunent supports the amendment because it he was faced with the reality that he would no believes the issue should be pursued through longer have any right to take fish from Tamboon separate legislation. I repeat: it is still the Inlet. That is a disgraceful way for the government PAPER

Thursday, 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 487

government's intention to address the issue but not collaborative research programs. As a separate in this Bill. institution the Victorian College of Pharmacy was too small to qualify for membership in the unified Amendment agreed to. national system of higher education and because of this would have been at some disadvantage in the Clause negatived. allocation of resources for its teaching and research programs. However a decision to seek a merger with Reported to House with amendments. Monash University was not based simply on resource considerations but on a genuine desire to Passed remaining stages. achieve additional benefits through support for its teaching and research activities in the context of a PAPER larger multipurpose institution.

Laid on table by Clerk: The merger arrangements between the college of pharmacy and Monash University are the result of Alpine Park Management Plan extensive discussions between the two institutions over a period of several years and are taking place MONASH UNIVERSITY (PHARMACY with strong support from students and staff and the COLLEGE) BILL members of the pharmacy profession.

Second reading Students will become students of the university and provision is made in the Act for the Council of Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, Monash University to confer degrees, diplomas, Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I move: certificates or other awards for a limited period under a name that includes the words ''Victorian That this Bill be now read a second time. College of Pharmacy".

PURPOSE OF THE BILL The Bill provides for staff employed by the college to become staff of Monash with the benefit of all This Bill provides for the merger of the Victorian existing entitlements, with remuneration no less College of Pharmacy with Monash University under than that received prior to the merger and on terms arrangements that will fully integrate the college and conditions no less favourable than those of the into the university's activities but retain its identity persons employed at the college. It is intended that as a distinct component of the university. no staff will be made redundant as a result of this merger. Monash is a large multipurpose university with a wide range of academic and professional programs It has been the practice in Victoria to grant to on campuses at Clayton, Caulfield, Frankston and universities the land on which they operate subject Gippsland. It is widely recognised for the strength of to constraints that preclude disposal without its research in a number of disciplines including approval of the Minister or the Governor in Council. medicine and science which are closely related to the teaching and research activities of the college of This Bill provides for the transfer of Crown land pharmacy. used by the college to Monash University in keeping with this practice. Arrangements have been made The Victorian College of Pharmacy is a small but through long-term leasing arrangements for highly regarded institution with a particular mission continuing use of property owned by the extending over a period of more than 100 years to Pharmaceutical Society of Australia. provide initial and continuing education programs for pharmacists in all areas of professional practice. The Bill amends the Monash University Act to The college already conducts research based higher provide for a college of the university to be called degree programs and has a distinguished record in the Victorian College of Pharmacy. This college will scientific research. have powers and responsibilities to be determined under Monash University statutes which will be The college has a particularly close relationship with comparable to those of a faculty at the university. the pharmacy profession and the pharmaceutical industry with which it is involved in a number of ADJOURNMENT

488 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 26 March 1992

This arrangement will preserve the identity of the COMPANION ANIMALS BILL former college while enabling it to operate as a fully integrated component of the university. Debate resumed from 24 March; motion of Mr BAKER (then Minister for Agriculture). MAJOR PROVISIONS OF THE BILL Mr COOPER (Mornington) - When my Part 1 of the Bill sets out its purpose, provides for its contribution to the debate was interrupted under commencement and includes definitions. Sessional Orders, I was dealing with some of the problems associated with the poor drafting of the Part 2 of the Bill provides for Monash to be the Companion Animals Bill and using clause 22 as an successor in law of the college and makes provision example of what I was referring to. It is no wonder for the transfer to the university of staff and that the government will move more than 80 students. This part transfers certain land used by the amendments during the Committee stage of the Bill college to Monash and makes necessary because it will be trying to clean up what can only amendments to the Post-Secondary Education Act be described as a disgraceful mess. The Bill is a mess 1978 and the Monash University Act 1958. of the government's own creation because the people who should have been spoken to have not CONCLUSION been approached. If those people had been spoken to, members of the government would have This Bill provides for a merger that will strengthen discovered that the proposals contained in the Bill teaching and research in the pharmaceutical sciences were alarming to the community and would make in Victoria by establishing the Victorian College of members of the community angry. Pharmacy as a college of Monash University. The people alarmed and angered by the provisions I commend the Bill to the House. of the Bill are the vast bulk of responsible pet owners in this State. They see themselves as being beset by a Debate adjourned on motion of Mr GUDE dreadful piece of proposed legislation. (Hawthorn). Clause 22 refers to dogs "found", not "found at Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, large". As I pointed out previously, "found" means Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I move: "becoming aware of". The wording of the Bill does not mean that its provisions must be applied to a That the debate be adjourned until Thursday, 9 April. dog found at large; it means that they could be applied if a by-laws officer became aware of a dog, Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) - On the question of even if it were on a leash and under the control of its time, Mr Speaker, I do not envisage a need for an owner. adjournment period beyond two weeks but it would be appreciated if we could have an undertaking Clause 22 provides that the owner of a dog can be from the Minister for additional time, if required. found guilty of an offence even if the dog is on a leash in the following loca tions: Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, (a) on the premises of a school .. . Post-Secondary Education and Training) (By leave) - Additional time will be considered. (c) in or about a shopping area .. . (d) in or about a railway station ... or Motion agreed to and debate adjourned until Thursday, 9 April. (e) on a beach or within SOO metres of a beach ...

ADJOURNMENT The penalty for a first offence will be $200 and for a second or subsequent offence the owner will be fined $400. Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I move: In closing the second-reading debate the Minister may try to say that the language of the Companion That the House, at its rising, adjourn until Tuesday, Animals Bill is exactly the language of the Dog Act 7 April. 1970. If he did, he would be incorrect because the language of the Dog Act has not been translated into Motion agreed to. COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

Thursday, 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 489 this Bill. I refer to section 16 of the Dog Act which are using the premises for the exercising or training provides that: of the dogs after school hours. (1) The owner of any dog- Under the provisions of the Bill people will not be (a) found on the premises of a school or shop (other allowed to even safely walk dogs through shopping than a shop where dogs are sold or treated for centres. They could be found guilty of an offence illness); or that draws an ultimate fine, for a second or subsequent offence, of $400. (b) (not being a dog being used in the droving of livestock) found - Clause 41 gives councils the power to make local (i) in or about a railway station or in a laws prohibiting or regulating the keeping of dogs in shopping area specified by order of the any part of a municipality. The vast majority of the council of a municipality; and community could be affected by such a provision. I invite honourable members to imagine the results of (ii) not under the effective control of some a council making a draconian decision to declare its person by means of a chain cord or municipality completely dog-free. It is no good the leash- Minister claiming that such a thing cannot happen. shall be guilty of an offence Powers should not be given under any legislation unless consideration has been given to the worst The words of subsection (ii) have not been translated instances that could arise from the exercise of such into the Bill. powers. Section 16(3) provides that: Currently a council in Melbourne is considered - under public perception, although I do not know The council of a municipality may for the purpose of whether it is well-founded - to be totally this section by order published in the Government anti-feline. Under clause 41 that council could Gazette and in a newspaper circulating in its municipal declare the entire municipality cat-free. I ask: does district - the government consider it to be fair and reasonable (a) specify any shopping area within its municipal to give a municipality such control, and to impose district; and such a measure on the people of this State? (b) specify any beach within its municipal district or - Clause 42 gives by-laws officers the power to I ask honourable members to note the following destroy any animal found at large in specified areas, words carefully - or, as I have just pointed out, in any part of a municipality. No right of appeal is provided under within 500 metres thereof ... clause 41. I suggest that most Victorians would be appalled at the prospect of such provisions being The Companion Animals Bill, on the other hand, part of the law. gives a blanket approval to by-laws officers to fine the owner of a dog found: on the premises of a The outrage of the community continues with the school; on the premises of a shop which is not a shop proposals under clauses 88 and 89 which refer to the where dogs are sold or treated for illness; in or about powers of authorised officers. They far outreach any a shopping area; in or about a railway station; or on powers given to sworn officers of the Victoria Police. a beach or within SOD metres of a beach. I invite honourable members to consider the following provisions in clause 88: The bad drafting will dramatically affect many (2) For the purposes of sub-section (1) an authorised people who live, for example, on the shores of Port officer may - Phillip Bay. Honourable members should bear in mind that 500 metres is a long distance and therefore (a) ... enter land, buildings not occupied as places of people will effectively be debarred from walking residence or vehicles; or their dogs near the beach or from even having dogs. (b) search any land or buildings or any part of any People's homes will not be able to be used for land or buildings not occupied as places of keeping a dog. Even worse, under the provisions of residence or vehicles; or ... the Bill people who own dogs will not be able to have them on the premises of a school even if they (d) ask questions; or COMPANION ANIMALS' BILL

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(e) seize, examine or take copies of, or extracts from Let nobody be under any misapprehension. The documents; or government is simply using this as another of its attempts at window-dreSSing. It will be able to say to (f) seize and remove any companion animals in people who have been leaning hard on i~ to im?rove circumstances where he believes the owner of legislation regarding the care of comparuon arumals, the animal may be guilty of an offence under 'We have done our job. We have handed it all over this Act; or to the municipalities and if they make a mess of it (g) request a person to give his or her name and and cannot put it into operation, it is not our fault. place of residence. Talk to the individual councils you believe are not doing the job properly". The following clause states that a person who does not follow those kinds of instructions or who The Minister will not be accountable for his attempts to prevent the authorised office~ from . legislation. To use a euphemism, he will drop the carrying out his rights under clause 88 wlll be gwlty dead cat over the fence and say, "You go and fix it of an offence and subject to a fine of $500. It says: up. We have given you the vehicle to do it". If U:e. (b) When asked by an authorised officer - Minister believed in consultation and accountablhty he would start listening not only to the community (i) refuse to give that person's name and place of which is outraged and angered by the proposals he residence; or wants to bring in but also to the people who will (ii) refuse to produce a document or animal ... have the awful job of administering the legislation. They want the Minister to take it away and redraft it. No-one can say anything other than that is a draconian power. The government has fought tooth He should bring it back in a form in which it can be and nail to prevent the Victoria Police from put into operation successfully. obtaining the powers which are conferred by clause 88. Over and over again honourable members in this Mr Baker interjected. place and in the other House have asked for the Victoria Police to be given the power to ask the Mr COOPER - I am trying to speak over the top name and address of any person whom they suspect of the Minister who is attempting to shout me down. of conunitting a crime and that that person should Obviously he believes in free speech, more for be obliged to give the information. The government himself than for the people who own cats and dogs does not believe police should have that power, but in Victoria. They are trying to make their views this Bill will give the power to a council by-laws known to the Minister and he will not listen to them. officer when he believes a person may be guilty of He is demanding to be heard by means of all the an offence under the Act. shouting that is going on while I am trying to speak on behalf of my constituents. He is trying to drown The officer does not have to have any proof or real me out. So much for his support of democracy. knowledge; he merely has to have a belief that the person has conunitted an offence under the A~t. He I am trying to say, as I said when I spoke on this Bill can go in, demand a name and address and selze the the other night, that this Bill has laudable aims. They animals and documents. He can enter any part of the could not be argued against by any reasonable premises other than the residence, and this Minister member of society. But what is said is that the says that is a reasonable and fair thing for him to be legislation that follows the aims that have ~een set in able to do. the Bill is unenforceable; it will not do the Job. If the Minister cannot recognise that, he is thicker than The opposition says the Bill is a complete and utter most of us on this side of the House think he is. mess. It has been demonstrated to be so by a vast section of the Victorian community. The opposition That that is the case is demonstrable, according to supports the views of most Victorians by declaring the people who have examined the legisla~on: the Bill to be a complete and utter legislative According to the municipalities and orgarusations shambles. Not only that, the Bill cannot effectively that have anything to do with dogs, cats and horses be put into operation. The opposition is backed in the legislation is unenforceable. It simply will not that view by the very organisations this government work. will handball the whole shambles to: the 210 municipalities in Victoria. Our appeal to the Minister is not based on anything but bipartisan grounds. We support the aims of the COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

Thursday, 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 491

legislation because they are laudable but we say to Mr Gude - Madam Acting Speaker, this is a the Minister that he must take the Bill away and riveting contribution and should not be missed. I redraft it. It is not good enough to introduce a piece direct your attention to the state of the House. of legislation on companion animals in November, have it lie over during the recess, bring it in during Quorum fonned. the first week of the new sessional period and say to the shadow Minister and the opposition, "We have Mr LEIGHTON - I was commenting upon the found a few problems. We have 80 amendments to intense interest in the Companion Animals Bill our Bill". The Minister has been yelling and shown by the community; it is an obvious indication screaming that this Bill is the answer to all the of the special role of companion animals - they can problems of companion animal care in Victoria. be a source of joy and companionship, particularly for people who are lonely or living alone. Studies It is not good enough for him to try to turn this have shown how valuable one pet dog can be in a sow's ear into a silk purse. He is making a mess of nursing home for the aged. the legisla tion and we believe a clean measure should be brought in which encompasses those However companion animals can also be a nuisance amendments so everybody in the community will when they stray or become feral and cause damage have an opportunity to look at them and understand to wildlife. It is therefore necessary to achieve a what they do. Let us then debate the Bill in this place balance between our needs for the enjoyment and in the other House. That is the way it should be provided by companion animals and the need to done. prevent them from causing a nuisance. The welfare of companion animals themselves must be of If the Minister believes in consultation and giving overriding concern. The Bill will achieve that the community, particularly companion animal balance. owners, a fair go that is what he should do. If he heads off on a course of riding roughshod over the I have been concerned at the views expressed by people who own dogs and cats he is the one who some individuals and organisations. The level of will get clawed to death. misinformation is so high it could be called lying. Some of the material issued by an organisation Mr LEIGHTON (Preston) - I am pleased to called Cerberus has a real League of Rights flavour support the Companion Animals Bill and I to it. In a letter addressed to me the organisation congratulate the Minister for Food and Agriculture argues: for bringing it into the House. It is a result of community demand that has been growing since the We are writing to you expressing our concern over the middle 1980s. Like many members of Parliament I haste at which the above proposed legislation appears have been lobbied by people expressing many to be passing through the Parliament ... points of view. One constituent quite legitimately inquired about the implications for her horse I have also received what appears to be a form business and others expressed great support for the letter - it looks as though it was probably sent to Bill. every member of Parliament - from Lorraine Hatton of Tecoma. In the letter Ms Hatton argues: I have been impressed with the role taken by a number of the animal welfare agencies who support The shame of this Bill is the clandestine method by the Bill, especially the Cat Protection Society in which it, and its contents, is going through Parliament. Greensborough, the Lost Dogs Home in North Melbourne and the Royal Society for the Prevention Nothing could be further from the truth; the process of Cruelty to Animals (RSPCA). We can say it is a has been neither clandestine nor hasty, as an tribute to them that this Bill has gained widespread examination of the history of the proposals for support in the community. companion animal legislation shows.

On the other hand, I have been horrified by some of The Joint Advisory Committee on Pets in Society the outrageous, inaccurate comments and lies that Ltd - an organisation representing animal welfare have been spread by several organisations. groups and industry bodies - and the government's Animal Welfare Advisory Committee first developed the concept of companion animals legislation in about the mid-1980s. In 1984 the then COMPANION ANIMALS·BILL

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Minister of Agriculture released a discussion paper Another sad aspect of the correspondence I have for public comment which proposed a companion received from organisations such as Cerberus, animals Bill. PAWS - the Permanent Animal Welfare Study group - and Petcare is that although they talk In May 1987 the Animal Welfare Advisory about responsible pet owners they fail to talk about Committee released a discussion paper Proposals for the fallout that occurs as a result of actions of Companion Animals Initiatives. irresponsible pet owners and, in particular, the implications for the welfare of companion animals In August 1987 the then Minister for Agriculture and themselves. Not one of the letters I received Rural Affairs in another place, the Honourable Evan responded to or canvassed the issue of animal Walker, referred the matter to the Social welfare. Development Committee of this Parliament. That committee conducted an inquiry over the life of two One of my constituents has lobbied me constantly Parliaments into the role of companion animals - and vigorously. He has also lobbied the Minister's the 1988 election intervened. The committee held office and is well known to the officers of the Social public hearings, took evidence and provided an Development Committee and officers of my local opportunity for people to make written submissions. municipal council, who have had to prosecute him The committee tabled its report in May 1989 - a on at least one occasion. I will say more about that very public act! later.

In November 1989 the then Minister for Agriculture The person concerned argues that there are no and Rural Affairs, the honourable member for unwanted companion animals. He argues that the Essendon, tabled a Ministerial response to the report. figures produced by the various animal welfare agencies are cooked and that unwanted animals do On the last day of the 1991 spring sessional period not exist. I can assure that gentleman that, as a the current Minister for Food and Agriculture made member of the Social Development Committee of the second-reading speech on the Bill. The Minister's this Parliament who has visited animal welfare intention in proceeding with the second-readmg agencies, I know that each of the agencies I visited speech on the last sitting day of the sessional period houses row after row of stray and unwanted was to allow the Bill to lie over until the autumn animals. Although they do their best to rehouse as sessional period to provide an opportunity for many animals as possible, the number is so great maximum public comment and input. that at the end of the day they must destroy some of them. Although that process is carried out as The timetable I have outlined from around 1984 to humanely as possible it is a distressing sight. The the present is hardly hasty or clandestine; it was figures bear that out. In 1986-87, 42 578 stray cats designed to allow maximum public comment and and 38 000 stray dogs were placed in shelters and input. pounds. Of the 42 578 stray cats, 33 000 were put down, as were 18 500 of the 38 000 stray dogs. It has also been stated that the Bill is not necessary. An organisation known as Petcare, which is a front Many of the criticisms made of the clauses of the for and is funded by the pet food industry, has Companion Animals Bill relating to the Dog Act are expressed. the view that, because the majority of pet ill-informed. One of the aims of the Bill is to reduce owners are responsible, the Bill is not necessary. I the nuisance that dogs cause while outside the suppose one could say it is a bit like any other premises of their owners. matter on which Parliaments legislate: the majority of motor car drivers are responsible but we need I point out to honourable members opposite that a laws to deal with those who are not responsible. number of sections of the Dog Act have provisions similar to those contained in the Bill. Section 12(1) of The Cat Protection Society estimates that although the Dog Act states: up to 80 per cent of cat owners are either responsible or will meet their responsibilities following The owner of a registered dog found outside the education, approximately 20 per cent will not meet premises of its owner without a registration collar their responsibilities through education alone. It is around its neck shall be guilty of an offence. for that minority that we, as a responsible Parliament, must legislate. COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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Section 15 of the Act states: Mr Bildstien - Did you read the Minister's first press release? The owner of any dog found at large outside the premises of the owner shall be guilty of an offence ... Mr LEIGHTON - Did you read the Bill?

To take up the point made by the honourable The SPEAKER - Order! Interjections are member for Mornington about the nuisance caused disorderly. I ask the honourable member to ignore around schools by stray dogs, section 16(1) of the interjections and to address the Chair. Act states: Mr LEIGHTON - I suggest that honourable The owner of any dog - members opposite read the Bill to clarify the matter. I can find no mention in the Bill of a $200 (a) found on the premises of a school or shop (other registration fee. than a shop where dogs are sold or treated for illness) ... shall be guilty of an offence. The Bill provides for a differential in registration I understand that the Minister for Food and fees of 200 per cent between desexed and entire Agriculture will propose amendments to clauses 21 animals while giving councils the discretion to set and 22 of the Bill which concern the definitions of fees. If a fee of $20 is set for a desexed companion effective control by means of a chain, cord or leash, animal, the registration fee for an entire animal will the deletion of the reference to dogs being found be $60, not $2oo! within 500 metres of beaches and the provision that dogs may be brought onto school premises either for Erroneous claims have been made about the 5 per educational purposes or with the permission of the cent of registration fees collected by councils that principal. will be paid into the Animal Welfare Fund, suggesting that somehow that money will find its The honourable member for Mornington and others way into the consolidated revenue. who criticise these provisions should realise that in effect they are criticising sections of the Dog Act, Mr Bildstien - It will be a slush fund for the which was introduced by the previous Liberal government! government! Mr LEIGHTON - Those moneys will be Another criticism made in a number of quarters is directed to the fund for educational, promotional that the Bill will provide unnecessary access to and research purposes. records. Again, section 10 of the Dog Act states: Mr Bildstien interjected. Upon request by any person and payment of the fee (not exceeding fifty cents ($0.50» prescribed in that Mr LEIGHTON - It is a pity that the honourable behalf by the council of the municipality concerned, a member for Mildura has obviously not read the registration officer shall give to the person a certificate report of the Social Development Committee, on Signed by him setting out all or any requested which a number of opposition members served. registered particulars in relation to any specified dog. With the exception of the honourable member for Berwick, who produced a minority report, the I support such access to information if we are to members of the committee made unanimous have any real control over animals that cause a recommendations. nuisance or to resolve problems faced by people who, for instance, are troubled by living next door to The report of the Social Development Committee a dog owner with a number of dogs, all or many of emphasised the need for education, and I am which may be unregistered. In any event, the pleased that 5 per cent of registration fees received relevant clause in the Bill is hardly a radical, new by councils will be dedicated to education and initiative. research into animal welfare issues.

One of the more mischievous lies spread about the Mr Bildstien interjected. Bill is the claim that a registration fee of $200 a year will be introduced for companion animals, thereby Mr LEIGHTON - I suggest the honourable putting their ownership out of reach -- member for Mildura should read the provisions of the Bill relating to the Animal Welfare Fund. COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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Another aspect of the Bill that has been criticised is have already partly covered the first, and that is the the provisions relating to horses. I shall not say too requirement that councils set the registration fees for much about that, given the statement by the Minister non-desexed dogs, and these are 200 per cent higher for Food and Agriculture that he will delete from the than for desexed animals. That is in line with the Bill any reference to horses. Nevertheless the welfare recommendations of the Parliamentary inquiry. The of horses remains a matter of concern. Often when alternative was to go further and require kids outgrow their interest in them, their pet horses compulsory desexing of animals, and I do not stand neglected in paddocks year after year. believe the community would support that.

It is incumbent on all those opposite who support The second area relates to dangerous dogs. Councils the deletion from the Bill of any reference to horses will be able to declare dogs dangerous if: to work constructively to develop alternative legislation that caters for the welfare of horses. In the the dog has caused serious injury to a person or animal meantime we must all be vigilant; and organisations by attacking, worrying, rushing at or chasing that such as the Royal Society for the Prevention of person or animal; been kept or trained as a guard dog; Cruelty to Animals must continue to be prepared to been declared dangerous in another municipality. prosecute owners who neglect their horses. The dog will have to be identified in a permanent Other aspects of the Bill have been wrongly manner. The dog owner will be able to appeal criticised by the Permanent Animal Welfare Study against the council's decision to the Administrative group (PAWS), which I believe is a front Appeals Tribunal. The dog can be taken to a public organisation for the pet food manufacturers, from place but must be on a muzzle and lead, and there which it receives funding. are also proviSions relating to the keeping of a dog on one's own premises. PAWS says that the Bill will force councils to impose curfews on cats. That is simply not true, because The provisions relating to the differential fee for curfews will be introduced only at the discretion of registration, and those relating to dangerous dogs councils in areas where wildlife is at risk from feral are two important and innovative features of the Bill. cats. The study group claims that the Bill will establish controls over birds, fish and horses. Agairi, The Bill gives legal recognition to cats. The that is not true, because the Bill relates only to cats companion animal definition includes cats, and one and dogs. of the submissions I read from the Cat Protection Society gives a very good statement of why cats I shall comment on the positive features of the Bill, require legal status and legislation. The society says of which there are many. The Bill defines companion a legal status clarifies ownership, confers protection animals as dogs, cats and horses - although, as I to the responsibly owned cat, affords protection to said, the reference to horses will be deleted. the shelters handling cats and allows impounding of the unowned "wild" cats that are responsible for The purposes of the Bill include the promotion of the much of the community nuisance and responsible ownership of companion animals; the environmental problem. promotion and protection of the welfare of companion animals; the reduction of over-breeding; During the course of its deliberations the the reduction of the nuisance caused by stray Parliamentary inquiry received a number of companion animals; the regulation of companion submissions in support of cat registration. For animal businesses; and the regulation of the instance, the Cat Protection Society had this to say: boarding and agiShnent of companion animals. Many of the provisions of the Dog Act will continue Cat registration should be primarily and initially aimed to apply. Dogs will continue to have to be registered at decreasing the unwanted cat population of through local councils. They will not be allowed to Melbourne by distinguishing stray and owned cats and stray and will be required to be kept on leashes allowing the impounding of those cats regarded as when outside premises. strays.

Local councils will continue to set fees and to administer and police the legislation. There will be reduced fees for pensioners. However, two important changes have been made to the Dog Act. I ADJOURNMENT

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The Australian Veterinary Association states: actual cost of the microchip is probably about $8 and hopefully will be on the retail market for less than The Victorian division in general has full support for $30. the development of comprehensive legislation regarding companion animals ... It is true that at the moment, with the microchip, one has to actually capture or contain the animal to be The registration of cats and horses should be a able to read the microchip, but I have seen that done, requirement. even with feral cats. Over a period of days they are enticed into a cage by putting a saucer of milk closer Another group, the Sherbrooke Survey Group in its and closer until they come and drink from it and are submission to the Parliamentary Social then trapped. Development Committee states: I am certainly impressed with the microchip. In fact, Cats and dogs have caused many problems in when I was at the Lost Dogs Home at North Sherbrooke and have been responsible for the Melbourne I saw feral cats that had been caught in reduction of the lyrebird population over the years of Preston in the manner I have described, then our survey. Many of these animals belong to people euthanised. whose homes abut or are close to Sherbrooke Forest. The Bill provides for the registration of companion Likewise, the City of Brunswick, an inner animal businesses including animal shelters, metropolitan municipality, supported the municipal pounds or enterprises. They will be registration of cats, presumably because of other registered with councils, pay registration fees, be sorts of problems caused by stray and feral cats. subject to a code of practice and have to notify the council of the sale of unregistered animals. The City of Hamilton outlined the impact on native wildlife such as the eastern barred bandicoot, and I am particularly pleased that that includes markets that native animal is under threat of extinction. The where pets are sold and pet shops. One constituent City of Hamilton, for that reason, strongly of mine, a Mc Alan Walker of 30 Setani Crescent, supported the registration of cats. West Heidelberg, has been lobbying me in opposing this measure. I am aware of amendments that the opposition will move on the registration of cats. While I would He is a pet shop proprietor and this gentleman is a prefer to see specific provision for registration of good example of the reason for the provision. He has cats remain within the Bill, if the opposition insists a string of convictions for cruelty charges and on resisting this provision, I would at least call on it animal welfare charges dating from 1976 to 1983 to preserve the legal status of a cat and provide for induding convictions in 1976 in Kerang resulting in some system of voluntary identification and the a $115 fine, convictions in the Melbourne County capacity to dispose of cats that are stray, a nuisance Court - three cruelty charges resulting in a $1200 or feral. fine - and a 1976 conviction in the Preston Magistrates Court. I should like to comment on mandatory permanent identification. In some ways the opposition The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable amendments will lead to that situation because member's time has expired. obviously if there is a capacity to dispose of an unidentified cat, the cat owner will have a strong Debate adjourned on motion of Mr MAUGHAN incentive to identify his or her cat. (Rodney).

From all of the systems I have seen I believe the best Debate adjourned until next day. one is the microchip. Obviously one such as colours and tags can be easily removed or lost. At its worst I ADJOURNMENT am even aware of cases where people have cut an ear off a companion animal prior to dumping it so Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and that they remove the tattoo identifying the animal. Agriculture) - I move:

From what I have seen of the microchip, it is easy, it That consideration of remaining business be postponed. is safe and it is permanent as well as cheap. The ADJOURNMENT

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House divided on motion: specifically the letter from senior trade union and anti-apartheid officials that was issued last year. Ayes, 44 This scandal has become known as the Tennis Andrianopoulos, Mr McDonald, Mr Australia affair. Baker, Mr Mathews, Mr Barker, Mrs Micallef, Mr The Chief Commissioner of Police chose not to Batchelor, Mr Norrls,Mr proceed against the authors of the letter, but he said Cole,Mr Pope,Mr he would recommend changes to the laws of Crabb,Mr Ray, Mrs blackmail. Mr Glare also warned that others should Cunningham, Mr Roper, Mr not interpret his decision not to prosecute as an Dollis, Mr (Teller) Rowe,Mr invitation to make demands of a similar nature. Ernst, Mr Sandon,Mr Mr Glare said he would make recommendations to Fordham,Mr Seitz, Mr change the law concerning blackmail. Garbutt, Mrs Sercombe, Mr (Teller) Gavin, Mr Setches, Mrs As the most senior law enforcer in the State of Hamilton,Mr Sheehan, Mr A. J. Victoria made these recommendations, I should like Harrowfield, Mr Sheehan, Mr F. P. to know whether the government has received them. Hill,Mrs Shell,Mr Has it acted upon them and does it intend to close Hirsh,Mrs Simmonds, Mr the loopholes that Mr Glare believes exist at the ]olly,Mr Spyker,Mr moment? Kennan,Mr Thomson,Mr Kennedy, Mr Trezise, Mr I am extremely concerned about this matter. I have Kirner,Ms Vaughan,Or spoken about it on a number of occasions, Leighton, Mr Walsh, Mr particularly when I was denied the legal opinions on McCutcheon, Mr Wilson,Mrs which Mr Glare ruled. I sought opinions from the Noes, 34 Director of Public Prosecutions but because of a Austin, Mr Lieberman, Mr timing factor he denied me access to those by a Bildstien, Mr (Teller) McGrath, Mr J. F. cunning sleight of hand. Brown,Mr McNamara, Mr Clark,Mr Madellan,Mr I am constantly harangued by concerned citizens Coleman,Mr Maughan,Mr saying that the matter was a sham. It should be Cooper, Mr Perrin,Mr tested by the courts - a judge and jury - on its Delzoppo, Mr Perton, Mr (Teller) merits. It is one of those matters that is eroding the Dickinson, Mr Pescott, Mr public's confidence in the criminal justice system. It Elder,Mr Reynolds, Mr is a matter that was taken so seriously that the Chief Gude,Mr Richardson, Mr Commissioner of Police was forced to say that he Hayward,Mr Smith, Mr E. R. would be making those recommendations. Heffernan, Mr Smith, Mr I. W. Jasper, Mr Tanner,Mr The matter is six months old. I want to know: what John, Mr Wade,Mrs action has been taken by the chief commissioner? Kennett, Mr Wallace, Mr What action has been taken by the government as a Kilgour,Mr Weideman, Mr result of those recommendations - I assume the Lea, Mr Wells, Dr chief commissioner gave his recommendations to the Minister - and what action does the Minister Motion agreed to. propose to take in Cabinet?

Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and This is a matter that goes to the heart of the Agriculture) - I move: democratic system and it goes to the heart of the criminal justice system. Unless urgent action is taken That the House do now adjourn. by the government there will be a complete erosion of the criminal justice system. Attempted blackmail of Tennis Australia Dialysis services Mr E. R. SMITH (Glen Waverley) - I direct to the attention of the Minister for Police and Mr J. F. McGRA TH (Warmambool) - I direct to Emergency Services a case of attempted blackmail, the attention of the Minister for Health through the ADJOURNMENT

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Minister for Labour the provision of dialysis services system. The Thomastown Secondary College has a to country patients, particularly those in western branch of the Victorian School of Languages, which Victoria. This issue has been of concern in my is currently experiencing an upsurge in demand for electorate for a considerable time. No dialysis the teaching of the Macedonian language. services are available in Warmambool and people needing this service must travel on a regular basis to The centre holds seven language classes on a Melbourne. Saturday morning. Those classes comprise the teaching of: Albanian, 12 students; Spanish, 19 Recently an article in the Warrnambool Standard students; Arabic, 22 students; Italian, 36 students; reported on a local man who needs dialysis. The Greek, 149 students; Macedonian, 168 students and article states: Turkish, 305 students - a total of 711 students at that centre. They provide a good base for languages John Bowman knows where every bend and turn in the other than English (LOTE) that are being taught at Warrnambool to Melbourne rail line is. tha t secondary college and other secondary colleges in the northern suburbs. He ought to - he has travelled the line twice each week for about five years. I am informed by the parents of students in the Macedonian classes that there has been an upsurge Mr Bowman, who lives in a Warrnambool caravan in demand and many of the classes at the different park, needs to make the trips to Melbourne to spend 4 levels are at capacity or beyond capacity. In fact hours straight each time attached to a dialysis machine. there are over enrolments. At the end of February, when enrolments were confirmed and students had He gets to St Vincent's Hospital at about 11 a.m. on paid their fees, there were no classes with fewer than Tuesdays and Fridays and leaves the hospital at 4 p.m. 25 students, whereas some classes had in excess of 30 students, with perhaps two levels of the language He then returns to Warmambool. He does that twice being taught in the one classroom. a week. St Vincent's Hospital, which provides a dialysis service, has offered to make available to the I ask the Minister to provide extra teachers to Warmambool Base Hospital a dialysis machine but alleviate the pressure upon the teachers and the 190 therein lies the problem. The government is unable students in the Macedonian language class. Students to agree on adequate funding for the ongoing service from years 11 and 12 are in a combined class, of the dialysis machine. thereby causing parents to pressure the school to provide additional resources. Tonight I am seeking a commitment from the Minister for Health that she will consider making Students from years 9 and 10 were recently removed available some level of funding through the from classes at the combined level and moved into a Warmambool Base Hospital to facilitate this dialysis Victorian certificate of education (VCE) class so that service because that would eliminate the need for three levels of the one language were being taught these people to travel, some on government funded simultaneously in one room. Surely everyone will travel, to Melbourne. More than that, it would appreciate how difficult that situation must be for eliminate the emotional stress that the long travel teachers and students; it must be almost impossible places on people, which is so debilitating to their to attain the necessary level of teaching and learning illnesses, and would improve their quality of life. expertise. That is an entirely inappropriate circumstance particularly for those students at the I am sure that once the Minister becomes aware of VCE level. this matter she will see the value of it and I trust that funding will be made available to save Mr Bowman Coincidently, VCE students from Thomastown and others like him having to travel to Melbourne Secondary College presently studying Macedonian two or three times a week to rec~ive this service. visited Parliament House today. They expressed concern at the situation and the attempts by some, Thomastown Secondary College including the Leader of the Opposition, to deny even the existence of a Macedonian community in Mr BATCHELOR (Thomas town) - I raise with Victoria. the Minister for School Education a matter relating to the Victorian School of Languages and the teaching of community languages in our education ADJOURNMENT

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I ask the Minister to look at the acute need for written to me expressing concern about the unequal teachers in the Macedonian language at treatment being received by clubs compared with Thomastown. hotels.

Tabaret and racecourse betting I have been contacted by the Morwell RSL and a number of other clubs that operate in my electorate Mr REYNOLDS (Gisborne) - The matter I direct about the implications of the gaming legislation, to the attention of the Minister for Sport and which would allow clubs to be allocated up to 105 Recreation concerns what I believe to be a set of machines, and hotels five in an WlIestricted area and double standards created by him in the racing and up to another 100 in a purpose-built and restricted gaming area. In 1989 sports bookmakers were area. allowed to write bets on a variety of sports only while fielding at a racecourse during a race meeting. In the Latrobe Valley in particular this would place That move was to attract more punters to clubs at a disadvantage. According to the letter, no racecourses, and I applaud that. club in the valley at the moment could feaSibly accommodate 105 machines, but several hotels In 1990 Tabaret instituted Sportsbook betting on could. The letter points out that the clubs carry out a similar sports activities which allowed punters to bet lot of community work as part of their operations. I between 11 a.m. and 11 p.m. six days a week as well am aware of the excellent work the RSL clubs do for as days on which Sunday trading is legal. That is Legacy and ex-service people who are in dire why I allege that two standards exist. circumstances. I am aware of the extra work, time and care taken by the clubs. The letter states: From 26 December 1991 Sportsbook at Tabaret was allowed to accept telephone bets against Totalizator Hotels generally are in business to make a profit for Agency Board accounts. That was done with no their owners or shareholders. prior warning to the Victorian Bookmakers Association Ltd or to oncourse sports bookmakers, In most instances clubs would have to carry out who are not pennitted to bet on any racing event alterations at considerable cost and put on while oncourse, nor can they accept telephone bets. additional staff. That would not be the case for the The Minister has allowed double standards to be hotels; they are not equal. created and he must rectify the situation. The other area of concern to the clubs is their Another problem concerns oncourse telephone membership. People must be allowed to go into the betting for all bookmakers, but I shall not pursue clubs to play the machines. One interpretation of the that matter now. legislation is that hotels would not operate in the same way. The letter makes comparisons with New Bookmakers deserve a level playing field but that South Wales where hotels are allotted ten machines, cannot happen while Sportsbook betting is allowed which on a weekly basis take $10 000. in its present form. A bookmaker has pennission to mail his betting odds to a client who may then How can the clubs compete on a fair basis with the complete his betting slip and return a cheque to the hotels? The legislation has been debated and I bookmaker. Any winnings are then returned by mail understand the interpretation given in the letter is to the punter. That is allowable. They cannot do it by accurate. What the clubs are saying is that they want telephone after establishing a credit. There should be the legislation reviewed to enable the Minister to a level playing field. The Minister has played a lot of take into account the problems that have arisen. sport and I believe he would be interested in creating a level playing field. In this case the I trust the Minister will treat the matter seriously Minister has shifted the goal posts and tilted the because the clubs in my electorate - I would ground in favour of sports betting at the Tabaret. imagine in other electorates throughout the State also - are concerned about the smooth Gaming machines implementation of the legislation on gaming machines in this State. Mr HAMILTON (Morwell) - I direct the attention of the Minister for Gaming to representations by the Returned Services League of Australia, Traralgon sub-branch. The league has ADJOURNMENT

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Community Volunteer of the Year recognised although he does not wish it and would be embarrassed about it. Mr LIEBERMAN (Benambra) - I raise with the Minister for Sport and Recreation an important I make this call for a number of reasons. There are matter and ask him to use his influence in talking people in our State who cannot get treatment for with the Premier. I ask the Victorian Parliament to bone marrow transplantation because there is not support my call for the River Murray marathon enough money to do it. It costs about $140 000 to swimmer Graeme Middleton to be named Victoria's pay for a bone marrow transplant for a child. There No. 1 Commwlity Volunteer of the Year for his are a number of cases where bone marrow has been efforts in promoting cancer research for children. matched and donors are available but they cannot get the beds because the Royal Children's Hospital I raise the issue today because Graeme Middleton is does not have the funds. It is important that children about to complete his marathon swim of the entire in remission have this treatment before much time length of the River Murray, some 2400 kilometres. passes as it may cost them their lives. He will be the first person to achieve this and will be listed in the Guinness Book of Records. Graeme started Graeme Middleton's contribution to raising his swim on 30 November 1991 at the junction of the funds - he wants to raise $100 000 - is a symbol to Swampy and Indi rivers, which is where the River all members of the commwlity that in these difficult Murray starts. So far he has raised more than $50 000 times we can do something to help. If the for cancer research, predominantly for children. He government, for whatever reason, cannot provide is supported by Rotary and the Anti-Cancer Council the money, surely we can all do something. The of Victoria. recognition of Graeme Middleton could provide an example to many others to find ways of raising Graeme has swum 2050 kilometres over 126 days, money to help people who need our assistance at which is incredible, and he is now near Swan Reach. this time. He hopes to complete his swim on 14 April when he will arrive at the mouth of the Murray at Goolwa in Public Record Office South Australia. By that time he hopes to have raised $100 000 for this worthy cause. Mr MAUGHAN (Rodney) - I raise a matter for the attention of the Minister for Finance, who I Graeme Middleton is 56 years of age, and is married believe to be the Minister responsible for the Public with three children. He was an Australian butterfly Record Office of Victoria, which is the repository for champion in the 1950s. His marathon swim has been many of the State's valuable records. Researchers organised by the Corryong Rotary Club. Graeme has have difficulty in gaining suitable access to the the support of a crew of five with two boats and two records and it is particularly difficult to obtain a vehicles, including a bus. Along the river ~otarians, reasonable level of service. One of the complaints local swimming clubs, representatives from the some of my constituents have made concerns the Australian Institute of Sport and other marathon time required to fill in forms. They complain also swimmers have joined Graeme for short periods at that the length of the wait associated with record various stages of his trip to help him maintain his retrieval and other queries has risen to an motivation. unprecedented level.

Graeme's love of sport and desire to keep fit provide I quote from a letter written by Mrs Iris Pearce, who an example to us all. By his tenacity he has shown is a member of the Australasian Association of just what can be done if you set your mind on doing GenealogiSts and Record Agents. Mrs Pearce has something worthwhile and have a good cause. In done a fantastic job in writing local histories and this case his cause is cancer research to assist prOViding a service for other people interested in children. Graeme's contribution is especially accessing historical information, so she is a person important because of the difficult times existing in who knows what she is talking about. Mrs Pearce Australia. frequently uses both the repositories to which she refers in her letter, that is, the one in the city and the Graeme Middleton does not seek recognition for one located in Laverton. Her letter contains the himself. He will be embarrassed to hear that I am following remarks: making this call today. However, I have discussed this with Rotary members who are supporting At both repositories I have been asked for help by Graeme and they believe it is appropriate that he be untrained staff members - how to thread a reel of ADJOURNMENT

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microfilm onto a reader - why is this film not reading providing not only additional staff but trained staff like yours (it had not been rewound onto the original to carry out the work. reel) and having to show another staff member that there were different size lens for the readers, which Churinga Support Services when changed to the appropriate level, allowed the film to be read. Mrs GARBUTI (Greensborough) - The matter I raise for the attention of the Minister for Community Such incidents occur frequently because untrained Services relates to ongoing support and funding for staff are simply not familiar with the equipment and Churinga Support Services, based in how they should go about their jobs. The letter Greensborough. Churinga has a long history of continues: service in the Greensborough area to young people with intellectual disability. Up to the end of 1990, The service in regard to photocopying is becoming Churinga operated a residential school for young worse as this new system progresses. The backlog is people with intellectual disability, run by the building up, the waiting time becomes longer, with Brothers of St John of God, but that was closed at the no-one being able to say when the copying will be end of 1990. available. After that there was a period of intense work during lhis creates its own problems because people do not which Churinga identified the needs of young know when the photocopies will be available. For intellectually disabled people in the region and example, one result is that people from the country developed a totally new program: Community cannot turn up to collect the material personally. As Access and Continuing Education. They sought a result, pre-paid postage adds to the cost of appropriate funding for it to meet the needs of retrieving records for research. The letter continues: teenagers who were not served by special developmental schools and those leaving such I have had pages which I have requested not copied, settings and moving into the community. but to make up the number of pages paid for, others have been included which I did not want copied. At In July 1991 they started a transitional program for both repositories this means a great deal of wasted time young people aged eighteen years and over who for both staff and users, and more wear and tear on the were leaving special developmental schools, original records. particularly the Diamond Valley Developmental School which is located over the road. The Minister As I said, the copies are paid for in advance. An visited Churinga on 18 February this year and was important point is that with the inefficiencies in the delighted to meet the council members, staff and system and the problems referred to in the letter the students. valuable records held in the repositories are subject to more wear and tear than they need be. The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable member's time has expired. Mrs Pearce details a number of other complaints in the letter she has written to Mr Ross Gibbs, of Responses Archival Heritage, expressing her concerns. She makes the point also that: Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and Recreation) - The honourable member for Gisbome I must commend the regular staff of the records offices, referred to a level playing field between bookmakers who I have always found very courteous and helpful. I and the Totalizator Agency Board. I point out that do however feel very sorry for these people as time and the records will show that bookmakers have had a again I hear them being abused for the inadequacies of better deal in all aspects of bookmaking under this the system, over which they have no control. They are government than they had with any of the Uberal the ones who receive the flack from the public. governments. We can consider things like whether there were more race meetings. All the Uberal Party I ask the Minister for Labour to convey my concerns wants to do is raise the turnover tax year by year. to the Minister for Finance. The public repositories We are looking at reducing it. We allow betting for are an important resource for people undertaking things apart from racing - tennis, golf or whatever genealOgical research. I ask the Minister to take - and that is fair enough. some action on the inefficiencies I have described by ADJOURNMENT

Thursday, 26 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 501

So far as saying there should be a level playing field The SPEAKER - Order! I suggest to the Minister with the TAB, rules such as bookmakers betting only that he should not allow this to become a private at race meetings were laid down by the Liberal conversa tion. government under Sir Henry Bolte in 1961. Betting was brought on hours before the race meeting and Mr TREZISE - Either he believes that the TAB that is how it has always been. should drop back to 2 per cent for the racing codes or that the bookmakers should go to between 7 and So far as the level playing field is concerned, is the 12 per cent. What is your answer on that one? honourable member saying any future Liberal government will allow telephone betting out of The SPEAKER - Order! The Minister should hours? address his remarks to the Chair.

Mr Reynolds - You answer the question. Mr TREZISE - There is no answer. The bookmakers should have a decided advantage over Mr TREZISE - Our answer is no. The opposition the TAB in relation to taxes. Bookmakers in Victoria has no answer. We have instigated an inquiry into are not doing well and, unlike the Liberal Party, the this issue and we have asked the Victoria Racing government is doing something to support them. Club to bring down a recommendation for the future. We are examining the issue. So far as the I am waiting for the outcome of the inquiry being level playing field is concerned, I assume the held by the Victoria Racing Club in relation to honourable member is saying the bookmakers off-course bookmaking by telephone. I hope the should be allowed to take bets outside the normal recommendation will not be what the honourable race meeting in the same hours as the TAB, as laid member for Gisborne suggested when he said there down by the Royal Commission in 1961. should be a level playing field so far as tax is concerned between bookmakers and the TAB. Does the honourable member say the level playing field should be the same for the TAB and The honourable member for Benambra raised the bookmakers so far as tax is concerned? question of Graeme Middleton swimming the Murray. It is a marvellous effort not only for the The SPEAKER - Order! The Minister should not individual but also for those sponsoring him, and he invite disorderly interjections. is a marvellous asset for the cancer research appeal.

Mr TREZISE - We are talking about the sports I agree that his efforts should be recognised in some book. The racing clubs and TAB get 12 per cent. The way by the State of Victoria. I shall pass on my view bookmakers get 2 per cent. Are you saying the to the Premier. As Minister for Sport and Recreation bookmakers should have an increase from 2 per cent I would be delighted to talk to the honourable to 12 per cent? That is a level playing field. The member about affording the gentleman some bookmakers would then have a level playing field recognition, perhaps by meeting him when he has with the TAB on taxes. We do not support that. We completed his swim or in some other way. support the TAB getting 12 per cent and the bookmakers paying 2 per cent. That is a different Mr ROPER (Minister for Gaming) - The issue. We do not believe in that level playing field. honourable member for Morwell raised the issue of Again, the opposition has no idea how to run the a letter he had received from the Traralgon State. sub-branch of the Returned and Services League concerning the introduction of gaming machines. As I was asked if I would agree to having a level honourable members know, Parliament decided that playing field for sports betting between the 50 per cent of gaming machines should be allocated Totalizator Agency Board (TAB) and bookmakers. to hotels and 50 per cent to clubs, with a guarantee that at least 20 per cent would be placed outside the Mr Reynolds - Sportsbook. metropolitan area.

Mr TREZISE - Yes, Sportsbook. Do you believe I have had one meeting with representatives of the there should be a level playing field in relation to the RSL since I have had responsibility for gaming. The tax taken from bookmakers and the TAB? only Significant concern the RSL had was that some venues that were basically bingo parlours would Mr Reynolds - Yes. somehow obtain access to gaming machines. That is ADJOURNMENT

502 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 26 March 1992 a matter for the licensing commission and the I believe Churinga is capable of running day gaming commission. If the RSL has other concerns I programs for those aged eighteen years and over; am happy to discuss them. and I am willing to take on board any suggestionc; from the honourable member for Greensborough to I can assure the honourable member that RSL clubs ensure that the services are used to the fullest extent around Victoria will have a significant involvement possible in delivering day programs for the in the gaming industry as it develops. intellectually disabled.

Mrs SETCHES (Minister for Community Mr POPE (Minister for School Education) - The Services) - The honourable member for honourable member for Thomastown directed to my Greensborough raised a matter concerning Churinga attention a matter concerning the Thomastown Support Services, which is now responsible for day centre of the Victorian School of Languages. programs following the closure of the accommodation service that was run by the Brothers The honourable member has spoken to me before of St John of God. I have never had such a shock as I about the need for extra teachers at the Thomastown did on the day I was told that the Brothers of St John Secondary College to teach the Macedonian of God would no longer deliver an accommodation language. I am pleased to inform the honourable service for intellectually disabled people. At the time member that two extra teachers will be provided to I thought it would be a test of being able to work teach Macedonian - and within budget, I might together for all concerned. say - for both the junior and senior sections of the college. The matter has now been resolved, and I The degree of cooperation that was shown by congratulate the honourable member on the success parents and the organisation meant that within the of his continual lobbying. time that was allocated we placed more than 57 children or adolescents in accommodation close to The honourable member for Glen Waverley raised a their homes throughout Victoria and redistributed matter for the attention of the Minister for Police and the money previously given to the Brothers of St Emergency Services; the honourable member for John of God across Community Services Victoria Warrnambool raised a matter for the attention of the regions. Minister for Health in the other place; and the honourable member for Rodney raised a matter for The upshot of that process was that Churinga the attention of the Minister for Finance concerning wished to run day programs. The individuals the issue of public records. I shall pass on those concerned are intellectually disabled young people matters to the three Ministers concerned. with the most difficult and challenging behaviour, and an excellent program has been developed based Motion agreed to. on individual program plans prepared for each person. House adjourned 6.2 p.m. until Tuesday, 7 April.

Churinga Support Services has been effectively delivering services to five young people under the State's plan for day programs. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 503

Wednesday, 18 March 1992

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

The following answers to questions on notice were circulated:

SUPERANNUATION - DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR

(Question No. 864) Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) asked the Minister for Labour: 1. Whether some retirees from the Department of Labour have been underpaid superannuation entitlements due to excessive taxation being deducted? 2. Whether he will inform the House how long the Department of Labour and other agencies within his administration have delayed, or not paid government superannuation contributions which have affected the taxation of its current and past employees, indicating how many complaints the government has received regarding this practice? 3. Whether he has received any legal advice as to the department's procedures in this matter; if so - (a) from whom; and (b) what was the advice? Mr POPE (Minister for Labour) - The answer is: 1. The Department of Labour is not aware of any retiree having been underpaid superannuation due to excessive taxation being deducted. 2. The department's payment of employer's contributions towards an employee's entitlement to superannuation are made by the Ministry of Finance. The agencies have made all superannuation payments according to the schedules of the relevant funds. 3. No.

STAFF ATTRITION RATE - CONSERVATION AND ENVIRONMENT

(Question No. 1028) Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) asked the then Minister for Conservation and Environment: In respect of each department, agency and authority within his administration, what was the staff attrition rate for the fmancial years 1981-82 to 1990-91, respectively? Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - The answer supplied by the Minister for Conservation and Environment is: In respect of the current conservation and environment portfolio: For the purposes of this question, data is provided on the level of staffing as at the end of each financial year in order for the net variation in level of staffing over a financial year to be identified. For 30 June 1984 and for each subsequent 30 June up to 1991, the Treasurer has provided this data on the level of staffing for all the agencies. (Hansard, Legislative Assembly No. 9, dated 12, 13, 14 November 1991, pages 1915 - 1932). Figures in respect of the years 1981 to 1983 are not readily available due to the amalgamations of agencies within this portfolio. The time and resources required to provide this information would therefore be excessive and cannot be justified. Information in respect of the former Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, the Rural Water Commission and the Department of Water Resources will be provided by the Minister for Water Resources. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

504 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992

ENHANCED RESIGNATION PACKAGE - EDUCATION AND TRAINING

(Question No. 1041) Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) asked the Minister for Finance, for the then Minister for Education and Training: In respect of each department, agency and authority within his administration: 1. How many people have accepted the enhanced resignation package as at 30 August 1991? 2. What is the total value of these payouts? 3. Will the enhanced resignation package continue to be available after 30 August 1991? Mr POPE (Minister for School Education) - The answer to the part of the question relevant to this portfolio is: For public servants in the former Ministry of Education and Training (excluding the Office of the State Training Board): 1. As at 30 August 1991 no offers of the enhanced resignation package had been made. However, the following information as at 31 January 1992 is provided in relation to offers and acceptances of enhanced resignation packages: Category Offers Acceptances Cessation Cost of ERPs of Staff Date

Public servants 340 202 29.11.91 $9376136.10 School Support Teaching Service 131 62 20.12.91 $5 335 494.88 Cleaners 166 101 31.12.91 $1584 094.15 Other school- based staff 46 18 31.12.91 $266 961.88 Teachers: 2-yr trained (primary) 133 59 12.02.92 TBA Other TBA TBA TBA TBA

2. No payments had been made as at 30 August 1991. 3. Yes, to the following targeted groups: (a) displaced principals who have been displaced as a result of school closures or as a result of displacement from the School Support Teaching Service; (b) secondary relieving teachers; (c) Band 4 primary teachers.

VTHC GRANTS - FINANCE

(Question No. 1098) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the Minister for Finance: In respect of each department, agency or authority within his administration, whether any grants and/or contributions have been given to the Victorian Trades Hall Council and/or its affiliates since 1 July 1990; if so - (a) what was the amount given; (b) what was the purpose of the grant and/or contribution; (c) what documentation was provided in support of the grant and/or contribution; and (d) has any report or audit been prepared in respect of the use of the grant? Mr HARROWFIELD (Minister for Finance) - The answer is: Records held by my Ministry indicate that no grants and/or contributions have been made to the Victorian Trades Hall Council and/or its affiliates since 1 July 1990 by any department, agency or authority within my administration.

VTHC GRANTS - EDUCATION AND TRAINING

(Question No. 1100) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the Minister for Finance, for the then Minister for Education and Training: QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 505

In respect of each department, agency or authority within his administration, whether any grants and/or contributions have been given to the Victorian Trades Hall Council and/or its affiliates since 1 July 1990; if so - (a) what was the amount given; (b) what was the purpose of the grant and/or contribution; (c) what documentation was provided in support of the grant and/or contribution; and (d) has any report or audit been prepared in respect of the use of the grant? Mr POPE (Minister for School Education) - The answer to the part of the question relevant to this portfolio is: Grants from the Department of School Education were as follows:

Recipient and Purpose Supporting Report/ Audit Amount given Documentation

Victorian Trades Grant focusing Appropriate Report and financial Hall Council on literacy needs documents statement has $4900 in the workplace are retained been requested under the Inter­ in department national Literacy Year Program

Building Workers As above Appropriate Report and financial Industrial Union documents statement has been $2500 are retained requested in department

Federated Clerks As above Appropriate Report and financial Union of Australia documents statement has been $2500 are retained requested in department

Confectionery As above Appropriate Report and financial Workers Union documents statement has been $2500 are retained requested in department

Federated Engine As above Appropriate Report and financial Drivers and Firemen's documents statement has been Association are retained requested $2500 in department

Food Preservers As above Appropriate Report and financial Union of Australia documents statement has been $2500 are retained requested in department

Federated Municipal As above Appropriate Report and financial and Shire Council documents statement has been Employee Union are retained requested $2500 in department

National Union As above Appropriate Report and financial of Workers documents statement has been (Manufacturing are retained requested Branch) in department $SOOO QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

506 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992

Printing and As above Appropriate Report and financial Kindred Industries documents statement has been Union are retained received $2500 in department

The Amalgamated Society As above Appropriate Report and financial of Carpenters and Joiners documents statement has been of Australia are retained requested $2500 in department

Vehicle Builders Grant under the Appropriate Evaluation Employee Federation Victorian Environ­ documents report due $5000 mental Education are retained at the end Council program for the in department of June 1992 development and dissemination of an educational pamphlet that introduces the union's environment policy to its members

TRAINING AND SELF-DEVELOPMENT - AGRICULTURE

(Question No. 1161) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the then Minister for Agriculture: In respect of each department, agency and authority within his administration, whether he will disclose the cost and nature of all training and self-development programs in which officers have participated since 1 July 1985, giving, in each case - (a) particulars of the training or self-development program; (b) the provider; (c) the cost; (d) the participants; and (e) the venue? Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and Agriculture) - The answer is: The time and resources necessary to provide an answer to this question are not considered to be warranted. For example, I refer the honourable member to the similar request he made under the Freedom of Information Act where details relating to the 1990-91 financial year alone amounted to 64 pages. However, I would be pleased to consider a question relating to any specific training program.

TRAINING AND SELF-DEVELOPMENT - TRANSPORT

(Question No. 1177) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the Minister for Transport: In respect of each department, agency and authority within his administration, whether he will disclose the cost and nature of all training and self-development programs in which officers have participated since 1 July 1985, giving, in each case - (a) particulars of the training or self-development program; (b) the provider; (c) the cost; (d) the participants; and (e) the venue? Mr SPYKER (Minister for Transport) - The answer is: To provide the detailed information sought by the honourable member in respect of all transport agencies would require the excessive allocation of time and resources which cannot be justified. Only the Roads Corporation and the Grain Elevators Board are able to provide most of the information sought by the honourable member. It is not practicable to include that detailed information in this answer and a copy of the data will be forwarded directly to the honourable member. It is noted that the honourable member also submitted an application to the Ministry of Transport, pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, for access to documents containing similar information. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 507

AGRIMARK CONSULTANCY -AGRICULTURE

(Question No 1197) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the then Minister for Agriculture: In respect of a consultancy conducted by Agrimark Consultants Pty Ltd for the department to form a review panel to carry out a review of field-based services in the department: 1. Whether he will advise - (a) on what date the consultancy commenced; (b) the original planned duration of the consultancy; and (c) the date of the completion of the consultancy? 2. Whether the duration of the consultant:y has been extended; if so - (a) for how long; (b) why; and (c) which officer of the department approved the extension? 3. What is the contractual price? 4. Whether the consultant/s have been paid any progress payments; if so - (a) what amounts; and (b) on what dates? 5. What are the qualifications of the consultant/ s and the hourly / daily fee for the consultant/ s? 6. Who has been interviewed by the consultant/s? 7. What were the original terms of the consultancy, indicating whether there has been any alteration to the terms of the consultancy; if so - what were the alterations? 8. Whether consultant/s have produced any interim/final finding, reports or recommendations; if so - what are the dates and details of such finding, reports or recommendations? Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and Agriculture) - The answer is: 1. (a) 24 July 1991; (b) 5 months; (c) 24 December 1991. 2. No; (a) NA; (b) NA; (c) NA. 3. The contractual price of the consultancy was $87 550, with provisions for reimbursement for out-of-pocket accommodation expenses at rates up to the equivalent Public Service determinations to a maximum total of $6000. 4. The consultants were paid progress payments in the following way: (a) 10 per cent of fixed contract price plus payment on itemised claims for accommodation, secretarial and administration expenses on a (b) monthly basis. 5. The qualifications of the consultants are: A. Watson - BAg Se, M Ag Ec, Ph D N. Clark -SDA, NDA M. O'Keeffe - B Se (Ag), Grad Dip (Marketing) J. Cary - B Se (Ag), M (Ag Se) R. Hely - M (Ec & Marketing) The hourly / daily fee is not indicated to preserve commercial confidentiality. 6. A large cross-section of relevant groups and individuals were interviewed. This included departmental field staff, clients, collaborators of the department, rural industry funding bodies, and agriculture departments in other States, as well as Commonwealth agencies. 7. The terms of reference for the consultancy were as follows: "The review will consider the scope of field-based services provided by the Department of Agriculture in Victoria to farmers and other client groups, and for the various categories of services, report on: the appropriate objective of agricultural field services provided and funded by government within the context of other options for funding and service delivery; the adequacy of present organisation and resourcing to achieve the recommended objective at acceptable levels; priorities for changes in organisation and resource allocation based on cost effectiveness, agricultural efficiency and social needs and benefits; other relevant issues which need to be considered by the Department of Agriculture management." No change in the terms of the consultancy has occurred. 8. The consultants presented a draft report titled "Review of Field Bases Services, Draft Report" to the department in November 1991. The final report was received by the department in December 1991. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

508 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992

MEDIA CONCEPT CONSULTANCY - CONSERVATION AND ENVIRONMENT

(Question No 1198) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the then Minister for Conservation and Environment: In respect of a consultancy conducted by Media Concept Pty Ltd for the department to produce a weekly 3AW radio program on the environment entitled Life Force and to produce on radio 3KZ FM short community messages dealing with the environment: 1. Whether he will advise - (a) on what date the consultancy commenced; (b) the original planned duration of the consultancy; and (c) the date of the completion of the consultancy? 2. Whether the duration of the consultancy has been extended; if so - (a) for how long; (b) why; and (c) which officer of the department approved the extension? 3. What is the contractual price? 4. Whether the consultant/s have been paid any progress payments; if so - (a) what amounts; and (b) on what dates? 5. What are the qualifications of the consultant/s and the hourly /daily fee for the consultant/s? 6. Who has been interviewed by the consultant/s? 7. What were the original terms of the consultancy, indicating whether there has been any alteration to the terms of the consultancy; if so - what were the alterations? 8. Whether the consultant/ s have produced any interim/final finding, reports or recommendations; if so - what are the dates and details of such finding, reports or recommendations? Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - The answer supplied by the Minister for Conservation and Environment is: 1. (a) The Media Concept Pty Ltd consultancy commenced on 24 March 1991. (b) For an original duration of 12 weeks. (c) Completed on 9 June 1991. 2. The duration of the consultancy has been extended in two instances: (a) The consultancy was extended for a period of 12 weeks (10.6.91 - 1.9.91) and then a further 43 weeks (2.9.91 - 30.6.92). (b) In the first instance the program met the quality standards set out in the contract and met the department's requirements for issues covered. The department considered it important to maintain the continuity and high community interest established in the program. In the second instance the consultancy was extended because ratings and community responses to the Life Force program continued to increase and demonstrate the community interest and need for information on the environment. (c) Both extensions were managed by Mr A. Herington, the then Director, Strategic Planning Division of the department, and approved by the Effectiveness Review Committee and the Tender Board. 3. The contractual price of the original consultancy was $51923. 4. The consultants were paid progress payments of (a) $26923 and $25000 on (b) 28.3.91 and 19.5.91 respectively. 5. This information is commercial in confidence and cannot be provided. When the consultants were engaged, the guidelines for engaging consultants issued by the Department of the Premier and Cabinet were followed. 6. The consultants have interviewed on the Life Force program a large number of people from Federal, State and local government, private companies, major organisations, community-based groups and individuals with specialist areas of interest and expertise. 7. The original terms of the consultancy (which have largely remained unchanged) were that: each week during the term of the agreement the consultant shall provide the department with three Life Force segments of not less than 5 minutes duration and one community service message of 30 seconds. The consultant shall liaise with officers of the department or other nominated persons to prepare the content of the segments. The department shall have the right to nominate the content of each segment. Alterations to the terms of the consultancy relate to changes in the consultancy price and dates of payment. 8. The consultants have not been required to produce any findings, reports or recommendations. They have provided ratings reports on 24.5.91 and 9.8.91. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 509

ACC SOLICITORS PANEL

(Question No. 1229) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the Minister for Labour: In respect of the appointment of legal firms to the Accident Compensation Commission panel of solicitors: 1. Whether there are any criteria for the selection or appointment of legal firms to the Accident Compensation Commission panel of solicitors; if so - (a) what are the criteria for the selection or appointment of legal finns to the Accident Compensation Commission panel; and (b) do those criteria require legal firms to present tenders to the Accident Compensation Commission prior to the appointment to this panel; if not, why; and if so, what guidelines exist to determine the successful tender? 2. What are the names of the legal firms presently on the Accident Compensation Commission panel of solicitors and did those legal firms satisfy any and/or all of the criteria mentioned in parts (a) and (b) of point 1; if so, what criteria did the legal firms satisfy to qualify for appointment to the Accident Compensation Commission panel of solicitors? 3. What fees have been paid to each of the past and present legal firms on the Accident Compensation Commission panel since the inception of WorkCare? 4. Whether the Accident Compensation Commission panel of solicitors are bound to the Accident Compensation Commission on a contractual basis; if so - (a) what is the usual duration of such contracts; and (b) what are the usual terms of the contracts? 5. Whether the Accident Compensation Commission has any system for inviting new firms to apply to become panel members? 6. Whether the Accident Compensation Commission has any criteria for the dismissal of legal firms from the panel of solicitors; if so, what are the criteria for dismissal; and if not, why? Mr POPE (Minister for Labour) - The answer is: 1. Yes. (a) The criteria for selection or appointment is defined in the Accident Compensation Commission ("the commission") Panel of Solicitors Tender documents. The firm of solicitors must comply with mandatory and specific requirements as specified in appendix I, which follows. (b) Yes. The guidelines to recommend appointment to the panel by the board of management of the commission include: (i) a review of the tenders against selection criteria; (ii) a review of the assessment process by the internal auditors of the commission; (iii) an interview of short listed tenders by the commission to assess tenders against selection criteria as specified by the tender documents. 2. The legal firms on the commission's legal panel are detailed in appendix 2. All legal firms met the mandatory criteria and relevant specific criteria for appointment to perform general and/ or the specialist legal services required by the commission. 3. The fees paid to these legal firms include professional costs and disbursements (medical reports, investigation reports, counsel fees, jury fees, etc.) for each service delivered. The individual payments represent commercial data. It is considered that the information if produced may disadvantage the competitive position of the respective firms in the market place. Total payments for legal and associated services paid to all legal firms used by the commission since 1985 to the present are provided below:

Payments to legal finns for legal costs for the Commission

ACC legal 85-86 86-87 87-88 88-89 89-90 90-91 91-92 costs $M $M $M $M $M $M $M·

Tribunal and 0.043 1.554 8.019 24.743 28.169 22.504 5.768 Arbitration·· Common Law 0.003 0.116 0.506 0.937 6.850 25.278 10.599 Recoveries 1.040 6.750 4.279 Total 0.046 1.670 8.525 25.680 36.059 54.532 20.646 1991-92 -up to October 1991. Included in these costs are legal costs associated with fraud investigations and some settlement payments. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

510 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992

4. Appointment to the panel does not create a contractual relationship between the commission and the panel firm. A contract between the commission and the panel firm is formed when a specific case is allocated to the firm. (a) There is no usual duration for the legal panel. However, the panel agrees to act for the commission for a period of three years from 1 September 1991. (b) The terms for inclusion on the panel of solicitors are specified in the commission's panel of solicitors tender documents. The allocation of work to the panel is at the sole discretion of the commission. The minimum standards required by the panel firm in undertaking such work are detailed in appendix 1. 5. The commission advertised for tenders in major newspapers. It is expected that when the current period of the panel expires the commission will re-tender through public advertisements. 6. Yes. The criteria for dismissal of legal firms is detailed in the tender document in appendix 1. Termination can be made by written notification. There is no requirement for the commission to give reasons for termination. Appointment to the panel is a commercial decision therefore removal from the panel would generally be effected without giving reasons. However major breaches of performance may lead to termination, these include: (i) bringing the commission into disrepute; (ii) offering gratuities to commission or agent staff; (iii) a major/significant conflict of interest not reported to the commission; (iv) failure to correct improper or inadequate performance within 30 days.

Appendix 1

ACCIDENT COMPENSATION COMMISSION 485 LATROBE STREET MELBOURNE VIC 3000

PANEL OF SOLICITORS

TENDER IX)CUMENTS

Specification for inclusion on the Panel of Solicitors Tender Document Guide and Requirements Specification for Tender of a Panel of Solicitors Tender Description of Services to be supplied

TENDER IXX:UMENT GUIDE AND REQUIREMENTS 1. TENDER FIRM 1.1 Full description of the tenderer and its business areas, future focus, resource commitment including provision for liaison with the commission, ratio of paralegal staff to qualified staff and supervision. It is not anticipated that a practice with less than three active partners (with appropriate support staff), all with highly developed Accident Compensation Act experience and available to undertake instructions as the commission sees fit, would be capable of meeting our needs. 1.2 Partner level involvement in complex matters and close supervision of all matters is essential. The position and role of partners involved in the specific areas of interest to the tenderer must be clearly stated. 2. STAFF 2.1 Provide a list of all partners and staff it is proposed will act for the commission detailing: 2.1.1 Full name and date of birth. 2.1.2 Qualifications (Academic and professional). 2.1.3 Experience in handling in Accident Compensation Act 1985 claims and/or common law claims arising from employment injury. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 511

2.1.4 Experience in contribution and recoveries from past insurers of employer's workers compensation liability involving the Workers Compensation Act 1958. 2.1.5 Skill level in dealing with specialist areas of the above. 3. COSTS 3.1 The commission is at all times to be billed according to the agreed scale and following any guidelines which might be issued, and on terms which reflect the importance of the commission as a client. 3.2 Interim billing, except for disbursements in common law matters, will not be permitted except in unusual circumstances and with the prior approval of the commission in writing. 3.3 Containment of costs generally, is a principle required to be addressed in the tender document by the tenderer. 3.4 With respect to contributions and recoveries fees, prospective panel members are required to nominate an hourly rate for each of the following stages: i. Assessment processing work up to and including issue of official assessment. ii. More complex work involved in the post official stages. These stages include objection, review and preparing matters for the tribunal - billing is to be provided monthly on completion of defined work stages as determined by the commission and in such format as required by the commission. 4. REPORTING REQUIREMENTS 4.1 Ensure that the quality and format of all reports and letters of advice provided to claims administration agents and the commission are commensurate with such requirements of the commission as are from time to time notified to panel firms. 4.2 Provide directly to the commission monthly statistics on the number of new files allocated, the jurisdiction, the number of matters finalised, the results of finalisations, the number of pre-trial conferences attended and the outcome of those pre-trial conferences, total number of matters on hand and any other matters requested by the commission from time to time. 4.3 Ensure that reports and letters of advice are provided to the claims administration agents within such time limits as may from time to time be specified by the commission. 4.4 Provide summaries of written determinations of the tribunal to the commission. 5. MONITORING AND ALLOCA nON OF WORK 5.1 The commission reserves at all times the right to call for a solicitor's file and to audit the progress of a matter or the results of a concluded case. 5.2 A panel firm must allow access to and facilitate a consultant to the commission on its premises for any purpose arising out of instructions issued to the panel firm by the commission. 5.3 Work will be allocated to a panel firm on a needs, specialisation or a performance basis. Need, specialisation and performance will be determined and assessed entirely by the commission in any way it thinks fit. 6. SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS The tenderer must be able to demonstrate the following: 6.1 Proven expertise and performance in the conduct of Accident Compensation Act 1985 and common law matters. The tenderer must be able to demonstrate an expert understanding of the Accident Compensation Act 1985 and experience in the conduct of matters before the Accident Compensation Tribunal. Experience in running common law matters before the County Court and the Supreme Court of Victoria is also essential, as is experience in the conduct of appeals before the Full Court (Civil Appeals Division) and the High Court of Australia. A tender for appointment to represent the investigations branch of the commission must demonstrate a proven ability to conduct fraud-related matters. A tender to undertake contribution and recoveries matters must specifically demonstrate the ability and expertise to do so. The tenderer is invited to provide separate submissions on its expertise and performance for consideration with regard to general claims files, contribution and recovery files and fraud-related matters. Other specialities may be brought to the commission's notice by submission within the tender application under the general claims category. 6.2 A commitment to commission guidelines and objectives, especially to: 6.2.1 contain settlement quantum levels relative to demonstrable and non-demonstrable injuries, 6.2.2 reduce legal costs per matter, 6.2.3 reduce the disposal time of common law matters, 6.2.4 ensure cost and time effective processes to recover and maximise contribution. Tenderer to outline its views and methods in relation to the above. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

512 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992

6.3 The provision of a prompt, courteous and cooperative service with all persons involved in the conduct of matters. The tenderer must outline its current policy on customer relations/liaison and resolution of complaints by its clients and parties it interacts with. 6.4 Circuit Centres: The tribunal currently conducts hearings in the following circuit centres: Ballarat, Bendigo, Geelong, Morwell/Moe, Shepparton/Wangaratta, Warrnambool, Mildura. County and Supreme court cases are also listed for hearings in the various circuit centres throughout Victoria. The tenderer may also wish to nominate circuit centres where its expertise in such places would benefit the commission and state clearly the benefits to the commission on reducing quantums and legal costs. 6.5 Flexibility in outlook and adaptability to change. The ability to appreciate and maximise the advantages to the commission flowing from legislative changes and precedent. 6.6 A preparedness to assist in and to provide resources for the training of officers of the commission and its claims administration agents. 6.7 The commission must be accorded priority as a client. Conflict of interest situations are of high importance to the commission. The tenderer is required to indicate the internal steps it would take, were it successful, to avoid conflict of interest situations arising, particularly with regard to the question of contributions from insurers approved pursuant to the Workers Compensation Act 1958; its current client base in the context of the secrecy provisions as per section 243 of the Accident Compensation Act 1985 and the confidentiality of that information relative to instructions from a client on which such information impacts. A successful tenderer must give an undertaking that it will not, in any circumstances, accept a retainer or retainers to act in proceedings which arise out of events which lead or may lead to the commission seeking that tenderer's advice and representation. 6.8 A professional business approach to the commission's objectives. 6.9 A tenderer must demonstrate a capacity to handle volumes of work and yet to maintain quality and consistency of service. Since inclusion on the panel may mean that a firm will be instructed in a significant number of matters, the tenderer should demonstrate its capacity to efficiently and thoroughly handle large numbers of cases concurrently. It is estimated that in excess of 3000 common law claim writs will be served on the commission in 1991, the majority of which are issued out of the County Court. The commission also expects to examine a Significant number of matters relating to contribution and recoveries in 1991-92. 6.10 Technological and administrative capacity to meet the commission's reporting requirements and clerical processing responsibilities for contribution and recoveries as determined by the commission and instructed in written format from time to time. 6.11 The ability to provide briefings or advice at short notice on issues of concern to the commission. 6.12 Notification to the commission of any Significant developments of law and practice impacting on the commission's operations within jurisdictions as they arise in matters in which their firms have acted or are acting for the commission.

SPECIFIC AnON FOR INCLUSION ON THE PANEL OF SOLICITORS The firm of solicitors must comply with the following criteria: 1. MANDATORY REQUIREMENTS: 1.1 Agree to meet all standards of the Accident Compensation Commission as instructed from time to time and not to engage in any practice that could bring discredit to the commission. This incudes a complete prohibition on advertising, media interviews or publishing the solicitor's name in connection with WorkCare or the commission without express written approval. 1.2 Agree that where the commission accepts a tender submission from a firm of solicitors, that firm shall be appointed to a panel of solicitors whose services may from time to time be called upon. For so long as panel membership applies to the firm of solicitors, the firm shall agree to render legal services upon the placement of individual instructions on behalf of the commission. The allocation of a particular file or the placement of instructions shall be regarded as an act of acceptance for the purposes of the creation of a contract with the firm of solicitors in that matter. Appointment to the panel shall neither be considered to create a contractual relationship between the commission and a firm of solicitors nor to give rise to any expectation of a guarantee that particular work necessarily will be commissioned or instructions placed by or on behalf of the commission. 1.3 Maintain sufficient qualified staff and sufficient support staff to ensure a high quality operation and do not utilise unqualified staff or agents in the provision of legal services. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 513

1.4 Ensure that no gratuities are offered or provided to any officer of the commission or of its agents. Provision of any reward in any form whatsoever will result in immediate removal of a firm from the panel of solicitors. No entertainment is to be arranged with an agent of the commission without the express written approval of the commission. 1.5 Ensure that warnings issued by the commission to a firm of solicitors relating to inadequate or improper performance are immediately rectified. Failure within 30 calendar days to rectify failings identified by the commission will result in the suspension or termination of the offending firm from the panel. 2. TERMINATION OF PANEL MEMBERSHIP: Termination of panel membership is subject to the following conditions: 2.1 Written notification may be provided at any time by either party of the intention to terminate panel membership. 2.2 Reasons for termination need not be given by either party. 2.3 Subject to satisfactory performance existing matters only will be retained for completion of action by negotiation with the commission which at its sole discretion may determine to permit the retention or withdrawal of instructions in such cases.

ACCIDENT COMPENSATION COMMISSION SPECIFICATION FOR TENDER OF A PANEL OF SOLICITORS Late Tenders: Offers received after the stipulated closing time at the place where the tender box is located will be deemed late by the Accident Compensation Commission. The commission will use its own discretion in determining whether or not such tenders will be considered or will be excluded from consideration.

Tender Document: The tender document is the opportunity for each tender firm to fully describe its establishment, expertise, specialities, capacity for operations, and provide to the commission its views regarding costs and quantum containment and other issues it believes to be significant in the business context of the commission. Assessment of a tenderer relies on the capacity of the firm tendering to supply the commission with sufficient relevant information. The commission reserves the right to seek further information from parties tendering as it sees fit.

Acceptance of Tender: The commission shall not be obliged to accept either the lowest or any tender and reserves the right to accept separate tenders for each and any part for which tenders have been submitted and to negotiate changes in price and service. The commission will appoint a single panel of solicitors which will comprise genera lists and specialists.

Payments: A panel firm shall be entitled to receive payment on the conclusion of a matter or on receipt of an advice, subject to the commission being satisfied that the work that has been performed is in accordance with its written requirements. Interim billing, except for disbursements, will be permitted only by prior agreement with the commission and only in respect of Significant cases where resolution will be protracted.

Failure of Performance: If a panel solicitor fails to execute the work or provide the service at a rate or progress or in manner strictly in accordance with written requirements, or neglects or omits properly to carry out any instruction of the commission or one of its agents, or fails to complete the work specified by the commission or one of its agents, then the commission may: (a) allocate the file or the instructions to another solicitor; (b) cancel membership of the panel effective from the date specified in the notice served on the solicitor.

Confidentiality: A panel member shall not make any public statement on any matter concerning the commission's business without the written permission of the commission. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

514 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992

Government Policy: The tender must abide by relevant government policies on the following: 1. Women's Employment Policy The Victorian government through its agencies and authorities will not provide industry assistance or let contracts to any firm named in the Australian Parliament as not complying with legislation under the Commonwealth affirmative action legislation. 2. Guidelines for Dealing with South African Sources The Victorian government supports the Federal government's sanctions against South Africa. Companies responding to this invitation are required to declare the origin of goods or services being tendered and the extent, if any, of South African ownership of the company or South African involvement in the sourcing of the contract. ACCIDENT COMPENSATION COMMISSION TENDER Tender for inclusion on a panel of solicitors acting for the Accident Compensation Commission. This Tender document consists of 10 pages. Retain a copy for your reference. Tenders close 4 p.m. on Friday, 14 June 1991. Late tenders may not be accepted. Tenders must be enclosed in a sealed envelope, or container, clearly marked with the tender title and be forwarded so as to reach the Chief General Manager, Operations Division, Accident Compensation Commission, 3rd level, 485 LaTrobe Street, Melbourne, 3000, or be placed in the tender box on the 3rd level of the above address by the stipulated closing time. All pages of a tender must be clearly numbered and initialled by the partner(s} responsible for the tender. Further information concerning this tender may be obtained by telephoning: Ian Rogers 6411200 Patrick O'Dwyer 6411844 Steve Kolotylo 6411843

I/We tender for inclusion on a panel of solicitors to act on behalf of the Accident Compensation Commission in Accident Compensation Act 1985 and common law matters in accordance with the specifications included in the abovementioned commission's specifications of tender for a panel of solicitors.

Signature of Date Signature of Tenderer(s} Witness(es} Tenden:..rs Name: ...... Name of Partner(s) responsible for this tender:

Block Letters Address: ...... Postcode:...... Telephone: ......

DESCRIPTION OF SERVICES TO BE SUPPLIED 1. To act for the Accident Compensation Commission in Accident Compensation Act 1985 and common law matters from 1 August 1991 for a period of three years from that date. 2. Whilst most of the files allocated to a firm on the panel will involve litigation, some general advice work may be required by the commission. 3. The allocation of files will be made by the commission according to administrative arrangements to be detennined at its sole discretion. 4. The commission reserves the right to determine the allocation of files to successful tenderers to meet the commission's requirements as they arise from time to time.

Signature of Date Signature of Tenderer(s) Witness(es) Tenderer(s) Name: ...... QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 515

Appendix 2 Recommended ACC Panel of Legal Providers Legal Practice General Specialised Fraud Contributions and Recoveries·· Stage 1 Stage 2

Abbott Stillman & Wilson x x Blake Dawson & Waldron x x x Carroll Dillon x Coltmans x x x Dunhill Madden Butler x x x Hall & Wilcox x Herbert Geer & Rundle x Mills Oakley & Mackay x x x Molomby & Molomby x x Phillips Fox x x x Purves Clark Richards x x x Rogers & Gaylard x Wisewoulds x x Management of contributions and recoveries is split into two stages. Stage 1 is all work performed up to achieving an official assessment. Stage 2 is the negotiation and resolution of the assessment after an objection is lodged with the tribunal by the prior insurer.

COMPUTER AND INFORMATION SYSTEM EMPLOYEES - DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR

(Question No. 1262) Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) asked the Minister for Labour: 1. How many people are employed by the Department of Labour on the development of computer systems as analysts and programmers, indicating - (i) how many of these are permanent public servants; and (ii) how many are contract employees? 2. Whether the Manager of the Occupational Health and Safety Authority Information Systems, Mr M. Fallon, is a contract employee? 3. How many employees are in the Occupational Health and Safety Authority Information Systems Department indicating - (i) how many are Department of Labour employees; (ii) how many are Occupational Health and Safety Authority employees; (iii) how many are contracted; and (iv) what is the cost of each group of people per month? Mr POPE (Minister for Labour) - The answer is: 1. (i) Five analysts and programmers. They are all permanent public servants. (ii) There are no contract employees. 2. The Occupational Health and Safety Authority has a project team developing and supporting WorkCare accident prevention information systems. The project leader, Mr M. FalIon is a contract employee. The Manager, Planning and Review Unit, who has responsibility for information systems, is Mr I. PhiIlips, who is a temporary employee. 3. The Occupational Health and Safety Authority's information systems project team employs 20 persons involved in analysis, programming, user support and data entry. The numbers and cost of Occupational Health and Safety Authority and contract employees for a standard month are: 14 OHSA employees $37000/mth 6 contract employees $49000/mth There are no Department of Labour employees in the information systems team. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

516 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992

WOMEN BOARD, COUNCIL OR COMMITTEE MEMBERS - MAJOR PROJECTS

(Question No. 1270) Mrs WADE (Kew) asked the Minister for Major Projects: In respect of each department, agency or authority within his administration, how many women hold positions on boards, councils or committees, indicating in respect of each board, council or committee, the names and qualifications of each female member, and the total number of members? Mr KENNAN (Minister for Major Projects) - The answer is: I am advised by the Major Projects Unit (MPU) that:

Docklands Authority: The Docklands Authority board has nine members. The one female member is Ms Linda Nicholls, who is Executive Director, Marketing, Country Natwest Investment Management Ltd. Ms Nicholls has a BA(Econ) from Cornell University and an MBA from Harvard University.

Lynch's Bridge General Advisory Committee Gointly established by MPU and Melbourne City Council): Of the committee of 13 members, there are 9 women. MPU does not have a record of their formal education qualifications, nor are these critical to their appointment.

Casino Control Authority: There are five members, one female - Ms T. McMeckan (MA Dip., Bach. of Liberal Arts and Sciences; MT Cert.; Master of Business Studies).

Old Treasury Building Committee of Management: Ms Dulcie Boling - CEO Southdown Press - member of the board of the National Gallery and member of the board of the Melbourne International Festival is the only female member of this committee.

WOMEN BOARD, COUNCIL OR COMMITTEE MEMBERS - TOURISM

(Question No. 1274) Mrs WADE (Kew) asked the Minister for Tourism: In respect of each department, agency or authority within his administration, how many women hold positions on boards, councils or committees, indicating in respect of each board, council or committee, the names and qualifications of each female member, and the total number of members? Mr CRABB (Minister for Tourism) - The answer is: 1. Tourism Industry Advisory Board - Total number: 10 members Ms Katie Lahey 2. Alpine Resorts Commission - Total number: 5 members. Ms Felicity Moss 3. Alpine Resorts Advisory Council - Total number: 12 members. Ms Shirley McInnes 4. Mount Buller Committee of Management - Total number: 10 members. Ms Joan Tehan 5. Falls Creek Committee of Management - Total number: 9 members. Ms Barbara Pyle 6. Mount Hotham Committee of Management - Total number: 10 members. MsJaneCann Details on each member's qualifications have not been provided as the definition is wide-ranging and difficult to assess. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 517

WOMEN BOARD, COUNCIL OR COMMITIEE MEMBERS - COMMUNITY SERVICES

(Question No. 1284) Mrs WADE (Kew) asked the Minister for Community Services: In respect of each department, agency or authority within her administration, how many women hold positions on boards, councils or committees, indicating in respect of each board, council or committee, the names and qualifications of each female member, and the total number of members? Mrs SETCHES (Minister for Community Services) - The answer is: COMMUNITY SUPPORT DIVISION Home and Community Care (HACC) program - Advisory Committee WOMEN MEN VACANCIES TOTAL 7 including 3 2 12 Chairperson 3 Ex officio 1 ex officio

Regional HACC Advisory Committees REGION WOMEN TOTAL North East 18 25 North West 3 7 Western 4 5 Southern 17 27 Otways (Barwon) 5 10 Otways (Glenelg) 4 8 Western Port 6 9 East Gippsland 5 7 Central Gippsland 5 8 Inner East No committee Inner Urban No committee Outer East No committee Grampians (Ballarat) 24 30 Horsham No committee Hume (Goulburn) 9 .1 Hume (Upper Murray) 14 17 Mildura 6 8 Loddon Campaspe 6 8

Ministerial Advisory Committee Supported Accommodation Assistance Program Crisis Accommodation Program WOMEN TOTAL 8 14

Regional Advisory Councils (RAC) WOMEN TOTAL Inner Urban 9 13 North West 10 15 Including chairperson Western Port 7 13 Southern 10 14 Including chairperson Outer East 7 12 Including chairperson North East Disbanded - under review Inner East 6 11 Western New RAC being formed Gippsland 11 19 Hume 8 17 Otways - Barwon 5 13 Otways - Glenelg 7 10 Loddon-Mallee New RAC being formed QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

518 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992

Grampians New RAC being formed

DISABILITY SERVICES DIVISION Ministerial Advisory Council on Disability WOMEN TOTAL 6 11

Ministerial Advisory Committee on the State - Plan for Intellectually Disability Services WOMEN TOTAL 12 20

Intellectual Disability Review Panel WOMEN TOTAL 6 15

CHILD PROTECTION AND FAMILY SERVICES DIVISION Victorian Family and Children Services Council WOMEN TOTAL 8 11

Standing Committee on Child Protection WOMEN TOTAL 5 7

Subcommittee on the Maternal and Child Health Service WOMEN TOTAL 6 7

CHILDREN AND YOUTH SERVICES DIVISION CSV /Child Welfare Association of Victoria (CWA V) Liaison Committee WOMEN TOTAL 2 6

Youth Parole Board/Youth Residential Board (Same members on both boards) WOMEN TOTAL 2 8

CSV /Department of Education and Training Inter-departmental Committee WOMEN TOTAL 6 12

CSV /Department of Labour Inter-departmental Committee WOMEN TOTAL 2 5 Philip Institute Youth Affairs Advisory Committee WOMEN TOTAL 4 10 QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 519

RMIT I Residential and Community Services Advisory Committee WOMEN TOTAL 5 12

Outer East Intellectually Disabled Planning Committee WOMEN TOTAL 3 12

Details of council and committee members' qualifications are not held by this department.

WOMEN BOARD, COUNCIL OR COMMITTEE MEMBERS - TRANSPORT

(Question No. 1289) Mrs WADE (Kew) asked the Minister for Transport: In respect of each department, agency or authority within his administration, how many women hold positions on boards, councils or committees, indicating in respect of each board, council or committee, the names and qualifications of each female member, and the total number of members? Mr SPYKER (Minister for Transport) - The answer is: To provide detailed information relating to every board, council or committee set up within the transport portfolio would require the excessive allocation of time and resources which cannot be justified. However to assist the honourable member, the following information is provided in respect of formal boards, councils and committees established under the provisions of section 36 of the Transport Act 1983. The information includes the relevant qualification appropriate for the person's appointment to the position. It should be noted that all appointments to boards, councils and committees are made in accordance with the relevant legislative requirements and, wherever possible, comply with the government's policy on affirmative action for women.

Board/ Total Name Qualifications Council! Number Committee

MARINE BOARD OF VICTORIA (MBV): MBV Board 13 Ms Melita Proebstl President &: Exec. Officer Vic Fishing Industry Federation PUBLIC TRANSPORT CORPORATION (PTC): PTC AdviSOry 14 Ms Toni McCormack Representing Users Board of Country Passenger Transport Services Cr Leonie Bourke Representing MA V Councillor, Prahran Workshops 10 Ms Gail Moody To Contribute Management Business Skills Board BCE,M EngSc ROADS CORPORA nON (VICROADS): VicRoads 11 Ms Susan Lightbody Elected Staff AdvisoryBoard Representative Victorian Taxi 13 Mrs Edith Morgan OAM Distinguished social Council (Chairperson) service in the community Ms Rosemary Whiting Representing persons with Disabilities Ms Jennifer Coate Representing Women Ms Patricia Liew VicRoads' Manager, Taxi Policy B Comm &: Admin (NZ), M Bus Stud (NZ) QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

520 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992

TRANSPORT ACCIDENT COMMISSION (T AC): TAC Board 6 Ms Merran Kelsall Extensive Financial Management Experience B Com(Hons), ACA Ms Linda Nicholls Extensive Financial Management Experience BA Econ, MBA (Harvard) QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 521

Thursday, 19 March 1992

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

The following answers to questions on notice were circulated:

N. PASCOE CONSULTANCY - CONSERVATION AND ENVIRONMENT

(Question No. 980) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the Minister for Conservation and Environment: In respect of a consultancy conducted by Neil Pascoe and Associates for the department to carry out research into public attitudes on the sale of public softwood plantations: 1. What was the commencement date of the consultancy? 2. What was the original planned duration of the consultancy? 3. Whether the duration of the consultancy has been extended; if so - (a) for hvw long; (b) why; and (c) which officer of the department approved the extension? 4. Who are the individual consultants, indicating their qualifications? 5. What is the hourly /daily fee for each consultant? 6. Who are the members of the steering committee overseeing the consultancy? 7. Who has been interviewed by the consultants? 8. Whether the consultants have been paid any progress payments; if so - (a) what amounts; and (b) on what dates? 9. What were the original terms of the consultancy? 10. Whether there has been alteration to the terms of the consultancy; if so, what alterations? 11. Whether the consultants have made any interim or final finding or recommendations; if so, what finding or recommendations? 12. Whether the consultants have produced any interim or final reports; if so - (a) what reports; and (b) on what dates? Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - The answer supplied by the Minister for Conservation and Environment is: 1. November 1990. 2. Not applicable - market research. 3. No. 4. Not applicable. 5. This information is commercial in confidence and therefore cannot be provided. 6. The director-general at that time, L. Foster. 7. Members of the public. S. $7500 - December 1990 $4000 - February 1991. 9. Not applicable. 10. No. 11. No. 12. A Qualitative Research Study. Assets: Summary of Findings. This report was released to you under FoI. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

522 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992

STAFF A TIRITION RATE - CONSERVATION AND ENVIRONMENT

(Question No. 1028) Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) asked the Minister for Conservation and Environment: In respect of each department, agency and authority within his administration, what was the staff attrition rate for the financial years 1981-82 to 1990-91, respectively? Mr CRABB (Minister for Water Resources) - The answer is: In respect of the water resources portfolio: For the purposes of this question, data is provided on the level of staffing as at the end of each financial year in order for the net variation in level of staffing over a financial year to be identified. For 30 June 1984 and for each subsequent 30 June up to 1991 the Treasurer has provided this data on the level of staffing for all the agencies. (Hansard, Legislative Assembly, No. 9, dated 12, 13, 14 November 1991, pages 1915-1932). Figures in respect of the years 1981 to 1983 are not readily available due to the amalgamations of agencies within this portfolio. The time and resources required to provide this information would therefore be excessive and cannot be justified.

STAFF ATIRITION RATE -SPORT AND RECREATION

(Question No. 1030) Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) asked the Minister for Sport and Recreation: In respect of each department, agency and authority within his administration, what was the staff attrition rate for the financial years 1981-82 to 1990-91, respectively? Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and Recreation) - The answer is: For the purposes of this question, and unless otherwise specified, data is provided on the level of staffing as at the end of the financial year in order for the net variation in level of staffing over a financial year to be identified. Department of Sport and Recreation For the period 30 June 1984 and for each subsequent year up to the 30 June 1991, the Treasurer will provide the relevant data. In relation to the period prior to this time, the resources required to conduct a manual search to enable compilation of this information cannot be justified.

Greyhound Racing Control Board 1981-82 12 1982-83 12 1983-84 14 1984-85 16 1985-86 18 1986-87 23 1987-88 23 1988-89 22 1989-90 22 1990-91 21 Note: Records are available only for the period 1987-1991, and accordingly the details for other years are based only on estimates.

Harness Racing Board 1981-82 45 1982-83 47 1983-84 46 1984-85 50 1985-86 49 1986-87 52 1987-88 55 QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Thursday. 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 523

1988-89 61 1989-90 58 1990-91 53

Totalizator Agency Board The information for 30 June 1984 and each subsequent 30 June up to 1991 will be provided by the Treasurer. The details below for the years 1981-1983 are for the months shown. Full Time Casual Total August 1981 336 1330 1666 February 1982 341 1356 1697 June 1983 229 1074 1373

STAFF ATTRITION RATE - CONSUMER AFFAIRS

(Question No. 1036) Mr GUDE (Hawthom) asked the Minister for Police and Emergency Services, for the Minister for Consumer Affairs: In respect of each department, agency and authority within his administration, what was the staff attrition rate for the financial years 1981-82 to 1990-91, respectively? Mr SANDON (Minister for Police and Emergency Services) - The answer supplied by the Minister for Consumer Affairs is: For the purposes of this question, data concerns the level of staffing as at the end of each financial year in order for the net variation in level of staffing over a financial year to be identified. For 30 June 1984 and for each subsequent 30 June up to 1991, the Treasurer will provide this data on the level of staffing for the Liquor Licensing Commission and the Ministry of Consumer Affairs in his answer to question No. 1022. The data for the periods not covered in the Treasurer's answer is not readily available, as the agencies have been administratively part of other agencies over this period. The time and resources required to obtain this information, where available, cannot be justified.

ENHANCED RESIGNATION PACKAGE - SPORT AND RECREATION

(Question No. 1056) Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) asked the Minister for Sport and Recreation: In respect of each department, agency and authority within his administration: 1. How many people have accepted the enhanced resignation package as at 30 August 1991? 2. What is the total value of these payouts? 3. Will the enhanced resignation package continue to be available after 30 August 1991? Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and Recreation) - The answer is: Department of Sport and Recreation 1. None. 2. Nil. 3. Expressions of interest for the enhanced resignation package closed on 30 August and offers in line with the Ministry of Finance guidelines were made only after this date. Agency 1 2 3 Greyhound Racing Control Board None Nil Not applicable Harness Racing Board None Nil Not applicable Totalizator Agency Board None Nil None QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

524 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992

VTHC GRANTS - SPORT AND RECREATION

(Question No. 1103) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the Minister for Sport and Recreation: In respect of each department, agency or authority within his administration, whether any grants and/or contributions have been given to the Victorian Trades Hall Council and/ or its affiliates since 1 July 1990; if so - (a) what was the amount given; (b) what was the purpose of the grant and/or contribution; (c) what documentation was provided in support of the grant and/or contribution; and (d) has any report or audit been prepared in respect of the use of the grant? Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and Recreation) - The answer is: Department of Sport and Recreation In May 1991 the Victorian Public Service Association (VPSA) was asked to undertake a project into workplace health and fitness in the Victorian Public Service. The following are the details in relation to this project: (a) $10000. (b) To investigate the degree of involvement by Public Service organisations in health and fitness promotion for the purposes of developing a strategy of promoting health and fitness in this sector of the work force. (c) A project brief developed by the department was accepted by the VPSA. (d) This project was placed on hold pending the outcome of the national survey on workplace health undertaken by the National Steering Committee on Health Promotion in the Workplace to ensure complementarity of the two projects. The national project focused on all sectors of the work force with a particular emphasis on the blue collar sector. Through the VPSA project it is hoped that some similarities and differences between the national position and the situation that exists within the discrete area of the public sector in Victoria will be able to be identified. Whilst the results of this national survey are still being analysed, the VPSA has been provided with a copy of the survey tool and is now in the process of identifying appropriate contacts in the various agencies and a consultant to formulate and undertake the survey.

FoI REQUESTS - SPORT AND RECREATION

(Question No. 1149) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the Minister for Sport and Recreation: In respect of Fol requests by Parliamentarians and/ or journalists, for each department, agency and authority within his administration: 1. What are the existing guidelines, instructions, and directions to the freedom of information officer in dealing with - (a) Fol requests by members of Parliament; and (b) Fol requests by journalists? 2. Whether there is any instruction or direction that the documents (or copies) be forwarded to the Minister's office prior to release of the documents; if so, what delay has been caused by the submission of the documents to the Minister's office for each such request since 1 June 1990? 3. Whether any instructions have been given to the Fol officer since 8 September 1991 in respect of Fol requests by - (a) the honourable member for Doncaster; and (b) other members of Parliament and/ or journalists; if so - (i) by whom, indicating the person's name and title; (ii) the nature of the instruction; and (iii) the date it was given?

Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and Recreation) - The answer is: 1. The freedom of information officers of the department and agencies observe the guidelines laid down in Volume 2 of the Freedom of Information Handbook. Any other procedures observed relate to the general administrative practices of the department or the particular agency and are not specific to freedom of information matters. 2. It is a usual part of department and agency activity that the Minister is briefed on any matter on which he may be called upon to respond to in the Parliament or elsewhere. Any delay that might occur with Fol requests does not specifically relate to this procedure, but to the complexity of the individual request and the number of requests received. 3. In respect of the department, the National Tennis Centre Trust, the Totalizator Agency Board and the Harness Racing Board no such instruction has been given. Details in respect of the Greyhound Racing Control Board are as follows: QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 525

(a) Yes. (b) No. (i) FoI request referred by Mr Trevor Lee (FoI officer for the department) to Mr Ken Carr (Executive Director). (ii) To respond directly in respect of information requested. (iii) 29 October 1991.

CARAVAN PARK SITES AT WATER STORAGES

(Question No. 1150) Mr COLEMAN (Syndal) asked the Minister for Conservation and Environment: In respect of the proposal to create and dispose of caravan park sites around the perimeter of the State's water storages: 1. How and which storages are being targeted for such development? 2. Whether Lake Eppalock is included in the proposal? 3. What method of disposal is anticipated and how will private treaty values be determined? 4. Whether the Land Conservation Council recommendations will be respected in determining these sites? 5. Whether water quality will be protected, especially in those storages which supply provincial urban communities; if so, how? 6. Whether the storages of the Melbourne Water Corporation will be included in this proposal? Mr CRABB (Minister for Water Resources) - The answer is: There is no general proposal to create or dispose of caravan park sites around the perimeter of the State's water storages, as suggested in the question. The Rural Water Commission is currently negotiating conditions for the sale of an existing caravan park at Lake Eppalock. The request to purchase came from the current lessee. The sale of this site, or any other should it be proposed, would take into account the Valuer-General's valuation. Any such sale or any proposal to develop caravan parks close to water storages would be negotiated under conditions that recognise Land Conservation Council recommendations and that ensure the protection of water quality. TRAINING AND SELF-DEVELOPMENT - SPORT AND RECREATION

(Question No. 1179) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the Minister for Sport and Recreation: In respect of each department, agency and authority within his administration, whether he will disclose the cost and nature of all training and self-development programs in which officers have participated since 1 July 1985, giving, in each case - (a) particulars of the training or self-development program; (b) the provider; (c) the cost; (d) the participants; and (e) the venue? Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and Recreation) - The answer is: In most instances the agencies within my portfolio do not have records prior to the introduction of the Training Guarantee scheme. Records kept since this time are in some cases too extensive to provide in the format requested, and on that basis the following details are provided:

Department of Sport and Recreation

Listing of external courses attended by department staff during 1990-91 included:

Provider Venue Classif. Course Title Cost $

PSB Training Melbourne CO2 Lotus 1-2-3 350 Aust Inst Sport Canberra LIB Australis Advanced 100 Sport Info Seminar 30 AustNatUni Canberra Act LIB 4th Nat Conference of 195 Library Technicians Cabal Camberwell ADM5 Refresher Enquiry Course 120 ABN Searching Phillip Inst Bundoora A New Approach Seminar 185 PSB Training Melbourne ADM5 Integrated Analysis Course 395 QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

526 ASSEMBLY Thursday. 19 March 1992

PSB Training Melbourne ADM6 Managing for Quality 500 PSB Training Melbourne ADM8 Strategic Planning for 495 Information Systems PSB Training Melbourne Finance for Non-Finance 150 Managers PSB Training Melbourne ADM5 Marketing your Services 225 Karl Rohnke Melbourne Executive Reach Program 200 PSB Training Melbourne ADM3 Bridging Course 400 Edward de Bono Melbourne ADM7 Creativity ok Lateral Think 280 PSB Training Melbourne ADM7 Introto PCs 400 PSB Training Melbourne ADM4 Intro to PCs and OOS 143 PSB Training Melbourne Lotus 1-2-3 ACHPER Melbourne ADM5 ACHPER Conference 528 PSB Training Melbourne ADM4 Intro to PCs 175 PSB Training Melbourne STENO Ventura Desktop Publishing 400 PSB Training Melbourne ADM4 Intro to PCs and OOS 143 PSB Training Melbourne Lotus 1-2-3 Prime ok Vicomp Melbourne WPO Essential PC Awareness 225 OOS Survival Skills 225 Wordstar 2000+ ReI 3.0 375 Word Process Evaluation 45 Ventura Desktop Publish 400 PSB Training Melbourne ADM4 Using PCs in the Public 395 Sector TAFE Holmesglen ADM4 Technical Writing Course 100 PSB Training Melbourne ADM8 Integrated Anal Course 395 PSB Training Melbourne Intro to Micro Computers 150 PSB Training Melbourne Finance for Non-Finance 150 Managers Edward de Bono Melbourne Creativity ok Lateral Think 280 PSB Training Melbourne Basic Lotus 1-2-3 400 PSB Training Melbourne COS Improving your Agency's 225 Service PSB Training Melbourne Team Leadership Skills 300 PSB Training Melbourne Staff Selection Skills 300 Aust Inst Man Melbourne ADM4 Manager Development 1325 PSB Training Melbourne Strategies for Improving 300 Client Services PSB Training Melbourne Financial Management 500 Improvement Program Edward de Bono Melbourne Creativity ok Lateral Think 280 Edward de Bono Melbourne ADM7 Creativity ok Lateral Think 280 PSB Training Melbourne ADM7 Intro to Lotus 1-2-3 150 Aust Inst Man StKilda Resource Management - 135 Corporate Services Planning and Program Evaluation PSB Training Melbourne Intro to Management 1000 PSB Training Melbourne Intro to Project Man 300 PSB Training Melbourne Managing for Quality Serv 1500 PSB Training Melbourne Introto PCs 1600 PSB Training Melbourne Intro to Lotus 1-2-3 1600 Cabal Camberwell ABN Library Update 150 PSB Training Melbourne Ventura Desktop Publish 800 Training Services StKilda Group Instruction 900 Australia Techniques PSB Training Melbourne Work force Planning 350 Training Consult Melbourne Records management 240 QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 527

Greyhound Racing Control Board

The following details are an approximately based on available data:

Provider Venue Classif. Course TitIe CostS

AWA AWA 4COs Work Processing 1200 AWA AWA 4 COs Compusheet Course 1200 AWA AWA 2 COs Operators Course 800 Swinburne Swinburne 1 Manager Train the Trainer 400 MT Melbourne 1 Account Lotus Course 450

Harness Racing Board

Prior to July 1990 when the Training Guarantee scheme commenced, no specific records were kept on staff training. Training for the period 1 July 1985 to 30 June 1990 has involved staff attending night school courses and/or lectures provided by accounting bodies and other groups. Training and self-development details for the period 1 July 1990 to 30 June 1991 are as follows: Providers Compuskill Australian Society of CPAs National Institute of Accountants Bellamy Miller and Monypenny Prime Computer Cost $25347.60 Participants Board staff Venues Board's office at 740 Mount Alexander Road, Moonee Ponds and various training rooms provided by the organisers in the Melbourne CBD and Footscray.

Totalizator Agency Board

For the period 1989-1991 the TAB conducted approximately 146 internal training courses including the following: Tabaret induction programs, player-activated terminals cashiering programs, self service terminal programs, telephone betting training courses, Pubtab training courses. Costs for the courses varied depending on the number of staff trained at anyone time - the average cost of training one telephone betting operator is approximately $194, a new employee $479 and an on-course operator $90. In addition 274 staff attended a total of 189 external training courses and conferences on such subjects as advanced Lotus, marketing, project management, negotiating, quality of service, accountancy, management and information technology. Costs for the courses varied, but on average this amounted to approximately $384 per person.

ABORIGINAL COMMUNITY ELDERLY SERVICES, BRUNSWICK

(Question No. 1189) Mr COLE (Melbourne) asked the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs: In respect of the Aboriginal Community Elders Services facility in Brunswick, whether the government has taken action to ensure Federal funds are available to staff services at the centre; if so, with what result? Mr ROPER (Minister for Aboriginal Affairs) - The answer is: The Aboriginal Community Elders Services Inc. (ACES) is a peak body concerned with the development and coordination of residential and home and community care services for Aboriginal older people in Brunswick, Victoria. ACES has coordinated the establishment of a multi-purpose Aboriginal aged care facility, the Iris (Lovett) Gardiner Aboriginal Elders Caring Place, which includes a 2S-bed hostel, an adult day-care centre and an Aboriginal elders cultural centre. Significant levels of administrative support and coordination are required given the unique nature of operations with four functions on site and the large number of government departments involved in funding and organisational arrangements. ACES management, made up of Aboriginal elders, became formally incorporated in 1987, which makes it eligible for capital and recurrent funding. QUESTIONS ON NOTlGE

528 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992

The current difficulties faced by ACES in relation to the aged care centre involved inadequate planning and commitment of recurrent staff funding by the appropriate Federal department(s). Those government departments that have, to date, provided the building and program funding have made it clear that no additional funding for staffing of administration or full hostel operations will be available in the 1991-92 Federal Budget. The dispute between Commonwealth departments over responsibility for infrastructure funding seems to be due to ACES falling outside various established guidelines in aged care and the lack of policy on Aboriginal aged care. Staff requirements for the facility include an executive officer to oversee the administration and development of all functions of the complex, a bookkeeper/secretary (both funded from HACC service development grants from mid-1989 to December 1991). A third position funded under the HACC program for an ACCESS and ADVOCACY worker to survey the needs of the Aboriginal elderly in Victoria. State Aboriginal funding for the cultural officer position for the elders cultural centre was approved in early October 1991. In November 1990 ACES negotiated a training agreement with the then Department of Education and Training (DEET) to equip staff with the necessary skills for the care of aged residents. However due to the uncertainty of future infrastructure funding commitments, staff recruited through DE ET funding have no security of on-going employment, with the exception of the day-care coordinator. Since May 1991 when the Victorian Department of Aboriginal Affairs was made aware of the lack of Federal infrastructure funding for the ACES project, the Victorian government has made representations to the relevant Commonwealth funding bodies, including health, housing and community services, and the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island Commission (ATSIC), which has assumed the responsibility for Aboriginal Hostels Ltd. The FEderal Department of Health, Housing and Community Services has provided $3.123 million for the construction of the facility. This department has consistently stated that it accepts responsibility for capital costs and funding subsidies for hostel operations, but not administrative costs for such a facility as ACES. The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission has stated that it will not fund an Aboriginal aged care facility until it obtains a direct allocation of Federal funds for that purpose. It does not wish to create a precedent with ACES until infrastructure funding responsibility is clarified by the relevant Federal departments. One-off funding was released by ATSIC in September this year to provide additional resources for furniture and equipment, and measures have been taken to extend the executive officer position to December 1991. An additional $60 000 released by ATSIC via hostels was to be used as top-up funds for hostel operations till June 1992, with a clear understanding that there would be no recurrent funds from Aboriginal Hostels Ltd, as it does not take responsibility for administrative costs. The Victorian government has consistently requested from the Federal government planning and decisions on this matter. More recently a joint letter from the Victorian Ministers responsible for Aboriginal affairs and the aged has been forwarded to the Commonwealth Ministers of Aboriginal affairs and aged care requesting early resolution to these matters.

ALFORD CONSULTANCY - CONSERVATION AND ENVIRONMENT

(Question No 1199) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the then Minister for Conservation and Environment: In respect of a consultancy conducted by Mr John Alford for the department to work with new Department of Conservation and Environment executives on implementation of the revised organisational structure and a strategic management approach to achieving the department's goals: 1. Whether he will advise - (a) on what date the consultancy commenced; (b) the original planned duration of the consultancy; and (c) the date of the completion of the consultancy? 2. Whether the duration of the consultancy has been extended, if so - (a) for how long; (b) why; and (c) which officer of the department approved the extension? 3. Whether the contractual price of the consultancy was $10 000; if not what was the contractual price? 4. Whether the consultant/s have been paid any progress payments; if so - (a) what amounts; and (b) on what dates? 5. What are the qualifications of the consultant/ s and the hourly / daily fee for the consultant/ s? 6. Who has been interviewed by the consultant/s? 7. What were the original terms of the consultancy, indicating whether there has been any alteration to the terms of the consultancy; if so - what were the alterations? 8. Whether the consultant/ s have produced any interim/final finding, reports or recommendations; if so - what are the dates and details of such finding, reports or recommendations. Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - The answer supplied by the Minister for C~nservation and Environment is: 1. (a) 1 July. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 529

(b) 10 days over the period 1 July-3D August. (c) 7 August. 2. (a) It is planned to extend the consultancy for up to two days. (b) Because of changes in the portfolio responsibility of Ministers and the impact of machinery of government changes there is a need to carry out some revision of strategic management and business planning across the portfolio. (c) There has been no need to seek approval for this'extension because of the fact that payments to the consultant to date are well within the contracted price which was approved by the Effectiveness Review Committee. 3. The contractual price of the planned consultancy was $10 000. 4. (a) The consultant was paid $3500. (b) Payment was made on 20 November 1991. 5. This information is commercial in confidence and therefore cannot be provided. When the consultant was engaged the guidelines for engaging consultants issued by the Effectiveness Review Committee were followed. 6. The director-general, the then deputy director-general, director-strategic planning and all interim general managers. 7. The original terms of the consultancy required work with SES officers at and below the level of the executive with particular focus upon strategic management and business planning. One outcome of the initial work was recognition that the development of relevantaction plans would be more effectively done on a divisional basis rather than involve the consultant with a large number of SES officers. 8. As all members of the executive were present at the action planning workshop session on 7 August, there was no requirement for a written report.

M. READ CONSULTANCY -CONSERVATION AND ENVIRONMENT

(Question No 1200) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the Minister for Conservation and Environment: In respect of a consultancy conducted by Mike Read and Associates with Ian Drummond and Associates for the department to undertake the development of a method to rapidly appraise the economic benefits of river management programs: 1. Whether he will advise - (a) on what date the consultancy commenced; (b) the original planned duration of the consultancy; and (c) the date of the completion of the consultancy? 2. Whether the duration of the consultancy has been extended, if so - (a) for how long; (b) why; and (c) which officer of the department approved the extension? 3. Whether the contractual price of the consultancy was $50 000; if not what was the contractual price? 4. Whether the consultant/s have been paid any progress payments; if so - (a) what amounts; and (b) on what dates? 5. What are the qualifications of the consultant/s and the hourly / daily fee for the consultant/s? 6. Who has been interviewed by the consultant/s? 7. What were the original terms of the consultancy, indicating whether there has been any alteration to the terms of the consultancy; if so - what were the alterations? 8. Whether the consultant/s have produced any interim/final finding, reports or recorrunendations; if so -what are the dates and details of such finding, reports or recommendations? Mr CRABB (Minister for Water Resources) - The answer is:

l. (a) 24 July 1991; (b) ten months; and (c) 24 May 1992. 2. The duration of the consultancy has not been extended. 3. The contractual price of the consultancy was $50 000. 4. Progress payments made to the consultants: $25 000 on 24 July 1991, and $5980 on 11 March 1992. 5. The qualifications of the consultants: NeilSturgess B.Agr.Se., University of Melbourne M.Ag.Ee., University of New England

Michael Read B.Agr.Se., University of Melbourne M.Agr.Se. (Economics), University of Melbourne QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

530 ASSEMBLY Thursday. 19 March 1992

John Tilleard B.E. (Civil), University of Melbourne M.S.(River Hydraulics), Colorado State University Tony Ladson M.Sei.(Agricultural Engineering), University of Minnesota B.E., University of Melbourne

JackSinden B.Sei.(Forestry), University of Wales M.For., University of Michigan M.For., University of Michigan Ph.D. (Forestry Economics), University of Wales

Rob Dumsday B.Agr.Se., University of Melbourne Ph.D.(Ag.E.), University of New England

Mark McWha B.Arch., University of Melbourne M.L. Arch, University of Melbourne

The daily fee for the consultants is commercial in confidence and therefore cannot be provided. When the consultants were engaged the guidelines for engaging consultants, issued by the Effectiveness Review Committee, were followed. 6. The following people have been interviewed by the consultants: employees of the Ovens River Management board; engineer of Tambo River Improvement Trust; Geoff Wigg, Bridge Department, VIC ROADS; Brian Doolan, Tourism and Planning Officer, DCE; Murray McDonald, DCE, Queenscliff; Laurie Norman, DCE, Bairnsdale; Rod Thomas, Bairnsdale Office, Port of Melbourne Authority; Bruce McKevath, Ranger, Lower Glenelg National Park; Paul Stevens (under two capacities) Secretary /Treasurer Western District Association of Angling Clubs Member of Glenelg-Wannon Water Board; and Ray Bridges, VIC ROADS, Traralgon. 7. The original terms of the consultancy were: to develop a rapid appraisal method for evaluating the economic benefits of river management programs and produce a guidelines handbook to assist the application of the rapid appraisal method by river management authorities and government. There have been no alterations to the terms of the consultancy. 8. The consultants have not produced any interim/final findings, reports or recommendations but they have submitted two progress reports (10-10-91, 7-2-92) to meetings of the steering committee.

AICHI PREFECTURE

(Question No. 1225) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the Premier: In respect of the sister State relationship with Aichi Prefecture Gapan): 1. What is the total cost to date of the sister State relationship, indicating a break-up of the following costs - (a) trade promotions; (b) cultural exchanges; (c) educational exchanges; (d) air fares; (e) entertainment; and (f) salaries of relevant officers/consultants of her department and other departments, indicating the other departments? 2. What are the details of the economic, business and cultural benefits of the sister State relationship? QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 531

Ms KIRNER (Premier) - The answer is:

1. The total amount spent by the Department of the Premier and Cabinet on Victoria's two sister State relationships (Aichi Prefecture, Japan, and Jiangsu Province, China) from June 1981 to June 1991 is approximately $868 000. Budget data for the sister State relationships does not differentiate between the two relationships, nor does it specify the amounts spent on particular types of exchanges. At present there is one officer (ADM4) within the Department of the Premier and Cabinet who has responsibility for the two sister State relationships as well as other duties not associated with the relationships. The salary for this officer is approximately $33 500 and is not derived from the sister State allocation but from the departmental salaries allowance. The amount spent by the department to date does not include the time and resources devoted to the relationships by other departments. Other departments that are involved with the sister State relationships on a regular basis or which have ongoing programs with either sister State include the Department of Manufacturing and Industry Development, through the Office of Trade and Investment, the former Ministry of Education and Training, the Ministry for the Arts and the Department of Food and Agriculture. Departments other than these are involved where necessary. This department's sister State budget does not include the cost of visits to Jiangsu or Aichi by Victorian Ministers or visits by the Governor. The cost of my visit to Japan, including a visit to Aichi Prefecture in 1990, totalled $35 194 as identified in the Department of the Premier and Cabinet annual report (it should be noted that the Japan visit was mainly for the purpose of the Melbourne Olympic bid). 2. Victoria and Aichi Prefecture have had a sister State relationship since May 1980. The relationship was established with the aim of promoting greater awareness of each other's culture and society. To date the relationship has focused on educational and cultural exchanges. Under the auspices of the relationship the Department of the Premier and Cabinet has provided advice and assistance to a number of individuals and organisations. That may involve making contact with the relevant authorities in Aichi, seeking assistance from the Aichi government in organising an itinerary for a particular visit or promoting the benefits of particular exchanges. In recent years Victoria has sought to emphasise the trade and economic potential of the relationship as well as cultural and educational exchanges. I have listed below some of the specific trade promotions and exchanges which have taken place in recent years: Economic and business exchanges with Aichi Prefecture: (i) Trade Fairs - Aichi exhibited at the Royal Melbourne Show in 1984, and Victoria exhibited at the World Export Fair in Nagoya in 1985. (ii) Investment Seminar - In July 1990, at Aichi's initiative, an Invest in Victoria seminar was held in Nagoya, and about 70 Japanese participants attended. (iii) Officer exchange scheme - The officer exchange scheme was agreed to in 1985 and has involved sending five Victorian Public Service officers to Aichi, usually for up to two months each (including three from the Department of Manufacturing and Industry Development). The exchanges have focused on areas of mutual commercial benefit, such as food processing, the meat industry and industrial ceramics. (iv) Ceramics -Aichi has a thriving ceramics industry. A ceramics delegation from Victoria visited Aichi in October 1991. Cultural exchanges with Aichi: (i) Reciprocal Gardens project - Aichi Prefecture and Victoria each agreed to build a public garden incorporating the traditions of design and the flora of the other State. Governor McCaughey opened the Australian Garden in Aichi at Nagoya in May 1990. The Australian Garden represents a typical Australian forest and grassland settings and is located within a larger public garden in Nagoya. About 50 different varieties of Australian trees and shrubs have been planted in the garden. A display will shortly be shipped to the Australian Garden. The Japanese Garden at the Melbourne Zoo was dedicated by Governor Suzuki of Aichi in August 1990; Governor Suzuki presented five stone lanterns. The garden was opened by Vice-Governor Takane Okuno on 1 November 1991. (ii) Gardener Exchange - Following a visit to Aichi by a gardener from the Royal Melbourne Zoological Gardens to learn about Japanese gardens in May 1991, a gardener from Aichi visited Victoria in October 1991 to assist with the completion of the Japanese Garden at the zoo and to learn about the techniques involved in the construction and maintenance of an Australian garden. (iii) Bicentennial gift - In 1988 Aichi participated in the bicentennial celebrations by hosting the Grand Kabuki in Melbourne. This followed Aichi's gift of the Mikawa fireworks display on Victoria's 150th anniversary celebrations. (iv) Theatre - Japanese theatre has been well represented in recent years at the former Spoleto Festival, now the Melbourne International Festival of the Arts. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

532 ASSEMBLY Thursday. 19 March 1992

(v) Book collection/tapestry -Governor Suzuki presented a Japanese book collection valued at $150 000 during his visit in August 1990. The collection of approximately 3SOO books was presented to the State Ubrary and is to be shared among the three Victorian universities with major Japanese studies programs. In return the Victorian government commissioned the Victorian Tapestry Workshop to create a tapestry incorporating Aichi's State flower, the iris, and Victoria's, the heath. This was presented by the Premier in Aichi in September 1990.

JIANGSU PROVINCE

(Question No. 1226) Mr PERTON (Doncaster) asked the Premier: In respect of the sister State relationship with Jiangsu Province (People's Republic of China): 1. What is the total cost to date of the sister State relationship, indicating a break-up of the following costs - (a) trade promotions; (b) cultural exchanges; (c) educational exchanges; (d) air fares; (e) entertainment; and (f) salaries of relevant officers/consultants of her department and other departments, indicating the other departments? 2. What are the details of the economic, business and cultural benefits of the sister State relationship? Ms KIRNER (Premier) - The answer is: 1. The total amount spent by the Department of the Premier and Cabinet on Victoria's two sister State relationships from June 1981 to June 1991 is approximately $868 000. Budget data for the sister State relationships does not differentiate between the two relationships nor does it specify the amounts spent on particular types of exchanges. At present there is one officer (ADM4) within the Department of the premier and Cabinet who has responsibility for the two sister State relationships as well as other duties not associated with the relationships. The salary for this officer is approximately $35 000 and is not derived from the sister State allocation but from the departmental salaries allowance. The amount spent by the department to date does not include the time and resources devoted to the relationships by other departments. Other departments that are involved with the sister State relationships on a regular basis or which have ongoing programs with either sister State include the Department of Manufacturing and Industry Development through the Office of Trade and Investment, the former Ministry of Education and Training, the Ministry for the Arts, and the Department of Food and Agriculture. Departments other than these are involved where necessary. This department's sister State budget does not include the cost of visits to Jiangsu or Aichi by Victorian Ministers or visits by the Governor. Governor McCaughey's three-week visit to China, including Jiangsu, in June 1991 totalled approximately $36 945 and is in addition to the amount indicated above. 2. Victoria and Jiangsu Province have had a sister State relationship since November 1979. The relationship was established with the aim of promoting greater awareness of each other's culture and society. Under the auspices of the relationship, the Department of the Premier and Cabinet has provided advice and assistance to a number of individuals and organisations. This may involve making contact with the relevant authorities in Jiangsu, seeking assistance from the Commonwealth government in issuing the necessary visas or promoting the benefits of particular exchanges. Victoria has maintained a balance between commercial and non-commercial activities with Jiangsu. I have indicated below some of the specific exchanges which have taken place: Economic and business exchanges with Jiangsu Province: (i) Building and construction - Two single-storey dwellings were constructed in Nanjing using Victorian materials and Jiangsu labour. The aim of the project was to demonstrate a range of Victorian/ Australian materials (particularly hard woods) and techniques which might stimulate demand for further buildings and/or materials on a commercial basis in China. The dwellings are now used to accommodate foreign and Chinese official visitors to Nanjing. (ii) Trade fair - The Jiangsu Arts and Crafts Fair was held in March 1982 in the Exhibition Buildings. It was a major event and Jiangsu displayed and sold a wide range of its arts and crafts. The value of goods sold was in excess of $300 000. (ill) Joint venture - In November 1991 the Minister for Manufacturing and Industry Development announced that an agreement had been signed between Jiangsu Province and a hide company at Laverton North, Victorian Hide and Skin Producers Pty Ltd. It was agreed that a joint venture would be established to provide 300 000 salted hides to Jiangsu each year. The deal is expected to be worth approximately $12 million annually. QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Thursday. 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 533

(iv) Victoria-Jiangsu Joint Economic Committee - The Victoria-Jiangsu Joint Economic Committee (VJJEC) was established to promote mutual understanding between Victoria and Jiangsu and to discuss projects of cooperation and exchange. The first annual meeting was held in Melbourne in March 1987, the second meeting was held in May-June 1988 in Nanjing, and the third meeting was held in April 1990 in Melbourne. A meeting of the VJJEC was originally scheduled to take place in Nanjing in 1991. Prior to arrangements being made concerning the next meeting, the Department of Manufacturing and Industry Development and the Department of the Premier and Cabinet engaged Price Waterhouse Erwick to conduct a study of companies that have tried to do business with Jiangsu and the varied results in order to identify future directions for the VJJEC. Cultural exchanges with Jiangsu: (i) Tours by performing groups: Nanjing Acrobatic Troupe visited Victoria in September 1980; In March 1983 the Jiangsu Peking Opera Company visited Victoria as part of a national tour; Acrobats from the Nanjing Acrobatic Troupe spent nine months training members of Albury-Wodonga's Flying Fruit Fly Circus and Circus Oz in 1985-86; Several Victorian school groups have visited Jiangsu: in 1987 the Scotch College orchestra gave a concert in Nanjing; In September 1991, six performers from Jiangsu participated in Botanica '91 - The Chinese Teahouse program, part of the Melbourne International Festival of the Arts. Two of the performers were members of the Jiangsu Ping tan Troupe and four were members of the Yangzhou Puppet Troupe. (ii) Gifts - Reciprocal gifts such as the Facing Heaven Archway and red pandas for Melbourne, and wombats for Nanjing. (ill) Future exchanges -In order to explore the possibilities for future cultural exchanges with Jiangsu on a commercially viable basis a cultural delegation from Victoria visited Jiangsu in December 1991. Other exchanges include sporting exchanges, in particular, swimming teams and coaches have visited and competed in their sister State's championships, and Victorian athletes won the Nanjing marathons for men and women in 1987.

EMPLOYMENT INITIATIVES FOR WOMEN -CONSERVATION AND ENVIRONMENT

(Question No. 1238) Mrs WADE (Kew) asked the Minister for Conservation and Environment: In respect of each department, agency and authority within his administration for the financial years 1989-90 and 1990-91, what funding was made to non-government organisations under the government's employment initiatives and strategies for women, indicating - (a) the name of the organisation; (b) the amount and purpose of the funding; and (c) whether the organisation concerned made any contribution to particular projects; if so, what was the project and the amount contributed? Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - The answer provided by the Minister for Conservation and Environment is: In respect of the current conservation and environment portfolio: No funding was made to non-government organisations specifically under the government's employment initiatives and strategies for women. Information in respect of Melbourne Water, the Rural Water Commission and the Office of Water Resources will be provided by the Minister for Water Resources.

Mr CRABB (Minister for Water Resources) - The answer is: With regard to the Department of Water Resources, the Rural Water Commission and Melbourne Water, no funding was made to non-government organisations under the government's employment initiatives and strategies for women.

EMPLOYMENT INITIATIVES FOR WOMEN - ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS

(Question No. 1243) Mrs WADE (Kew) asked the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs: QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

534 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992

In respect of each department, agency and authority within his administration for the financial years 1989-90 and 1990-91, what funding was made to non-government organisations under the government's employment initiatives and strategies for women, indicating - (a) the name of the organisation; (b) the amount and purpose of the funding; and (c) whether the organisation concerned made any contribution to particular projects; if so, what was the project and the amount contributed? Mr ROPER (Minister for Aboriginal Affairs) - The answer is: There was no funding provided by the now Department of Aboriginal Affairs in the financial years 1989-90 and 1990-91 to non-government organisations under the government's employment initiatives and strategies for women.

EMPLOYMENT INITIATIVES FOR WOMEN - EDUCATION AND TRAINING

(Question No. 1251) Mrs WADE (Kew) asked the Minister for Finance, for the Minister for Education and Training: In respect of each department, agency and authority within the Minister's administration for the financial years 1989-90 and 1990-91, what funding was made to non-government organisations under the government's employment initiatives and strategies for women, indicating - (a) the name of the organisation; (b) the amount and purpose of the funding; and (c) whether the organisation concerned made any contribution to particular projects; if so, what was the project and the amount contributed? Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training) - The answer is: I refer the honourable member to the reply to Legislative Council question No. 1223, which detailed grants to organisations for 1989-90 and 1990-91 for the then Mnistry of Education and Training and was printed in Hansard of 12 November 1991, page 1650. A copy of that response follows. With the exception of grants to Affirmative Action in Training, these grants were not specifically made under the government's employment initiatives and strategies for women. It should be understood, however, that women are a large client group and that grants not exclusively targeted to women may assist women. Response referred to above follows: The attached tables provided readily accessible information on grants paid. The provision of the remaining details would require an extensive manual search of records, for which the time and resources are not available. Information in respect of the Division of Further Education will be supplied directly to the honourable member, as its publication would take up an excessive number of pages in Hansard.

The tables referred to are as follows:

GRANTS TO ORGANISATIONS - SUMMARY

ORGANISATION EXPN EXPN 1989-90 1990-91

Ausmusic 40000 60000 Australian Association of Special Education o 3000 Australian Childrens Television Foundation o o Australian Conservation Foundation o 10000 Australian Council for Educational Research (ACER) 163600 168850 Australian Council for Educational Research (ACER) o - Sample testing project 40000 o - Effective Schools Project 67000 - Survey of Social Education Australian Council of Post-Primary lost of Vic (ACPPIV) 42800 44400 Australian Educ Council (2 Projects) 83700 o Australian Educ Council - Mathematics Project 9500 Australian National Memorial Theatre School 59000 49990 Australian Schools Sports Council 11451 12436 Ballarat Children's Homes and Family Services o 28121 Burremah Integration Service (Grassmere Youth Ser) 30000 30000 QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Thursday. 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 535

Campaign for International Committee for promotion of Oral Education of the Disabled 2000 o Centre for Educ and Res in Environ Strategies (CERES) 90000 10000 Council for Christian Education in Schools 315300 329 500 Curriculum Corporation of Australia 52400 96600 Curriculum Corporation of Australia o - Careers Education project 20480 DEAL Communications 2000 Doveton Welfare Cluster 15000 o Environmental Designers in Schools o (Architects in Schools) 20000 30000 Ewing House Hostel o (Victorian Committee for the Promotion o of Oral Ed of the Disabled) Family Life Movement 6000 6000 Family Science Project 2.5000 Fitzroy Music Festival 5000 Friends of the Zoo 10000 o Gender and Science and Technology (GASA T) 5000 International Social Service 450 o John Gardiner Centre 5000 Joint Council of Subject Associations 39875 McClintock ColIective 4595 McDonald House Hostel 36000 36000 Melbourne Living Museum of the West Ministry for Health, Education and the Arts (Survey) Muscular Dystrophy 1500 Next Wave Festival 70000 Parents of Hearing Impaired Children 5000 Peer Group Support Foundation 20000 40000 Plumbers, Sheetmeta\' Coppersmiths' Assoc Reverse Garbage Scheme 9500 9500 Salvation Army 2500 o Specific Learning Difficulties Association 15000 15000 Spoleto Music Festival 6000 o State Schools Horticultural Society o State Schools Relief Committee 10000 Summer School -Melb Uni Student Union 2.50 2.50 United World ColIeges Trust YAP Special Schools 3000 VAEIA 34000 o Victn Assoc of rural Secondary Schools Victn Council of School Organisations (VICCSO) 109800 112800 Victn Federation of State School Parents Club 149800 92800 Victn Federation of Catholic Parents Club 9500 9500 Victn Information Technology Teachers Assoc Victn Institute of Marine Science Studies 30000 17500 Victn School Canteen Assoc 30000 30000 Victorian Parents Council 9500 9500 Victn Parents Advocacy Collective 25000 35000 Victn State Schools Sports Fed o (Organised Athletics in Schools) 5200 5200 Wilderness Society 9700 9700

TOTAL 1497451 1634497

Grants from tile Council of Adult Education were as follurvs:

NAME OF REASON AMOUNT OF DATE MADE ORGANISATION GRANTS AND PRINCIPAL

Melbourne Theatre Support to Company Curtain-Up Program 10000 BMay 1990 (Chairperson, QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

536 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992

Prof 0 Penington)

Adult Education To extend services of Association the CAE through AEA 24000 1989-90 (President, Mr Ken West)

2> ORGANISATIONS AMOUNT REASONS FOR GRANT DATE OF PAYMENT

Affirmative Action 1) $25 000.00 Payment for the employment of 2 project 1) 02.08.90 in Training 2 )$30 000.00 officers with the aim of increasing the number 2) 17.01.91 3) $5 000.00 of women in non-traditional trades, 3) 23.05.91 particularly with Group Training Schemes

1) $25000.00 Payment for project officers 1) 16.10.90 2) $1000.00 Payment for project officers 2) 11.12.90 3) $25000.00 Payment for project officers 3) 23.05.91

1) $25 000.00 Payment for project officers 1) 01.08.89 2) $24 000.00 Payment for project officers 2) 26.10.89

Engineering Skills 1) $1600.00 Evaluation Engineer Craft Cert 1) 29.06.90 Training 2) $70 000.00 Accommodation and Travel Subs 2) 28.09.90 3) $32 000.00 Metals and Engineering 3) 30.08.90 4) $48000.00 Production Engineering 4) 30.08.90 Engineering Skills 1) $80 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 24.06.90 2) $110000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 2) 20.03.90

Engineering Skills 1) $80 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 25.10.90 2) $70 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 2) 20.12.90 3) $69 530.64 Operation of Industry Training Boards 3) 23.05.91

Vic Furniture 1) $30 000.00 Commonwealth Adult Literacy 1) 24.06.90 Industry 2) $20 000.00 Commonwealth Adult Literacy 2) 20.03.90 3) $50 000.00 Commonwealth Adult Literacy 3) 12.07.89

Workskill 1) $78300.00 Work Skills 1) 06.12.89 Aust. Foundation

Victorian Trades 1) $55305.00 Grant to enable the continuation 1) 08.06.90 Hall 2) $16044.00 of Skills Training and Technology Unit 2) 08.06.90 3) $67 700.00 3) 30.05.91 4) $10554.92 Grant to enable the continued strategy 4) 06.06.91 of the Access and Equity Office position within Skills Training and Technology 5) $20744.31 Administration costs on salary and on-costs 5) 25.06.91 for Literacy Officer (International Literacy Year Small Grants program) QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 537

Victorian Overseas 1) $4 500.00 Operation grant 1) 15.03.90 Foundation

Victorian Timber 1) $20 000.00 Operation grant 1) 22.09.89 Industry

Albury-Wodonga 1) $1250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 18.08.89 Group 2) $10625.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 30.08.90 3) $10625.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 08.11.91 4) $12500.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 24.01.91 5) $13750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 5 )02.05.91

Building Industry 1) $111 875.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 06.06.91 Group 2) $55,000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 16.10.90 3) $55000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 11.10.90

Central Highlands Group 1) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 30.08.90 2) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 19.10.90 3) $6 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 06.12.90 4) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 07.02.91 5) $12500.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 5) 02.05.91 6) $6250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 6) 02.05.91

Central Melbourne Region 1) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 17.08.90 2) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 04.12.90 3) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 14.02.91 4) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 24.04.91

Central Victoria G.A.S. 1) $3750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1 )18.08.89 2) $26 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 30.08.90 3) $25 000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 11.10.90 4) $25 000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 31.01.91 5) $26 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 5) 24.04.91

Dandenong- 1) $3 750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 18.08.89 Western port 2) $21 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 30.08.90 3) $21 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 11.10.90 4) $25 000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 31.01.91 5) $17500.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 5) 24.04.91

Eastern Victorian Group 1) $9375.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 30.08.90 2) $9375.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 15.11.90 3) $9375.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 07.02.91 4) $9375.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 09.05.91

Geelong and District GAS 1) $18750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 27.08.90 2) $18750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 11.10.90 3) $18750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 24.01.91 4) $18750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 24.04.91

Gippsland Group Training 1) $3 750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 18.08.89 2) $25 000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 30.08.90 3) $50 000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 28.02.91 4) $25 000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 24.04.91

Goulburn Valley Group 1) $15000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 23.08.90 2) $15000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 15.11.90 3) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 31.01.91 4) $18750.00 Operation ofT'ship Group Schemes 4) 02.05.91 QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

538 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992

Group Training Australia 1) $35 000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 30.08.90

Food Industry 1) $5000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 24.06.90 Training

Forest l.T.B. 1) $43500.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 24.05.90

Horticulture Training 1) 20000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 02.02.90 2) $20 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 2) 01.05.90

Local Government 1) $5000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 24.06.90 Metal Trades 1) $65000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 11.01.90 Industries

Nurserymen's 1) $5 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 12.12.89 Association

Plastics, Rubber and 1) $26000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 24.05.90 Printing Industry 1) $17000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 27.03.90 2) $21 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 2) 21.12.89 3) $17000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 3) 14.06.90

Road Transport l.T.C. 1) $32 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards I} 24.06.90 2) $10000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 2) 24.06.90

Social and Community 1) $49500.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 15.03.90 Serviees 2) $80 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 2) 24.06.90 3) $49 500.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 3) 03.05.90 4) $52 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 4) 18.01.90

Textiles, Clothing 1) $5000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 21.12.89 and Footwea

Tourism & Hospitality 1) $60 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 01.12.89 2) $90 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 2) 24.04.90

VACC 1) $5000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 02.02.90 2) $40 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 2) 24.06.90

Vie Building and 1) $54 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 24.04.90 Construction 2) $54 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 2) 19.02.90 3) $80 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 3) 24.06.90 4) $72 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 4) 03.11.89

Vie Furniture 1) $17000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 08.02.90 Industry 2) $15 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 2) 08.06.90 3) $15000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 3) 24.04.90

Vic. Textile 1) $36 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 24.04.90 Clothing and Footwear

Victorian Arts I} $32200.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 11.04.90

Victorian Arts and 1) $16 100.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards I} 27.10.69 Entertainment

Victorian TCF 1) $32000.00 Operation of I ndustry Training Boards 1) 11.01.90 Industry 2) $48 000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 2) 11.05.90

Victorian Timber 1) $5000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 15.03.90 QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Thursday. 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 539

Industry

Wholesale, Retail and 1) $20000.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 1) 24.05.90 Pers 2) $13 700.00 Operation of Industry Training Boards 2) 29.06.90

Inner Eastern Group 1) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 30.08.90 2) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 22.11.90 3) $11250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 14.03.91 4) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 09.05.91

Inner Northern G.A.S. 1) $18750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 30.08.905 2) $18750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 11.10.90 3) $18 750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 24.01.91 4) $15000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 30.05.91

Murray Mallee Training Co 1) $3 750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 18.08.89 2) $16875.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 27.08.90 3) $16875.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 21.02.91 4) $16875.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 21.02.91 5) $15000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 5) 30.05.91

Outer Eastern Group 1) $3 750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemesl 1) 18.08.89 2) $21 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 30.08.90 3) $25 000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 11.10.90 4) $25 000.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 31.01.91 5) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 5) 09.05.91

Plumbing Industry Group 1) $35625.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 14.03.91 2) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 02.05.91

Southern Suburbs Group 1) $9375.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 30.08.90 2) $9375.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 15.11.90 3) $9375.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 28.02.91 4) $9375.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 24.04.91

S.T.E.P. 1) $5625.00 Operation ofT'Ship Group Schemes 1) 23.08.90 2) $5625.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 11.10.90 3) $5 625.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 31.01.91 4) $5625.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 24.04.91

Sunraysia Murray Group 1) $9375.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 30.08.90 2) $9375.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 15.11.90 3) $9375.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 07.02.91 4) $18750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 02.05.91

VACC 1) $43 125.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 21.06.91

Western Region Group 1) $3 750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 18.08.89 2) $21 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 11.04.90 3) $21 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 30.08.90 4) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 30.08.90 5) $21 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 5) 11.10.90 6) $21 250.00 Opertion of T'ship Group Schemes 6) 28.02.91

Western Victoria Group 1) $3 750.00 Opera ton of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 18.08.89 2) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 11.10.90 3) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 07.02.91 4) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 02.05.91

Wimmera and Grampians 1) $3750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 1) 18.08.89 Group 2) $18750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 2) 28.09.90 3) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 3) 30.08.90 4) $18750.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 4) 24.01.91 5) $11 250.00 Operation of T'ship Group Schemes 5) 24.04.91 QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

540 ASSEMBLY Thursday. 19 March 1992

EMPLOYMENT INITIATIVES FOR WOMEN - SPORT AND RECREATION

(Question No. 1254) Mrs WADE (Kew) asked the Minister for Sport and Recreation: In respect of each department, agency and authority within his administration for the financial years 1989-90 and 1990-91, what funding was made to non-government organisations under the government's employment initiatives and strategies for women, indicating - (a) the name of the organisation; (b) the amount and purpose of the funding; and (c) whether the organisation concerned made any contribution to particular projects; if so, what was the project and the amount contributed? Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and Recreation) - The answer is: The department encourages the employment of women in such areas as sports administration but neither the department nor its agencies have provided funds to organisations specifically for these initiatives.

WOMEN BOARD, COUNCIL OR COMMIITEE MEMBERS -ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS

(Question No. 1280) Mrs WADE (Kew) asked the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs: In respect of each department, agency or authority within his administration, how many women hold positions on boards, councils or committees, indicating in respect of each board, council or committee, the names and qualifications of each female member, and the total number of members? Mr ROPER (Minister for Aboriginal Affairs) - The answer is: The Minister for Aboriginal Affairs does not appoint any person to any board, council or committee.

WOMEN BOARD, COUNCIL OR COMMIITEE MEMBERS - SPORT AND RECREATION

(Question No. 1291) Mrs WADE (Kew) asked the Minister for Sport and Recreation: In respect of each department, agency or authority within his administration, how many women hold positions on boards, councils or committees, indicating in respect of each board, council or committee, the names and qualifications of each female member, and the total number of members?

Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and Recreation) - The answer is: Board/Council/Committee Female Members Total Number of Members Bookmakers and Bookmakers Clerk Registration Committee Nil 11 Community Recreation Council Ms ] Goedemoed 11 Ms L Morgan MsH Phillips MsA Thiel Greyhound Racing Control Board Nil 4 Greyhound Racing Grounds Development Board Ms] Rodda 3 Harness Racing Board Ms D Heather 8 Martial Arts Board MsCSchnell 7 National Tennis Centre Trust Ms K Wood 13 Professional Boxing Control Board Nil 6 Racecourses Licences Board Nil 12 QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 541

Racing Appeals Tribunal Nil 3 Racing Appeals Tribunal - Racing Advisory Panel Nil 5

Racing Appeals Tribunal - Harness Racing Advisory Panel Nil 7 Racing Appeals Tribunal - Greyhound Racing Advisory Panel Nil 5 Raffles and Bingo Permits Board Nil 3 State Sports Council Ms H Armitage (Chair) 12 DrR English Ms} Kemp Ms M Lonsdale MsKMahlook Totalizator Agency Board Nil 6

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Tuesday, 7 April 1992 ASSEMBLY 543

Tuesday, 7 April 1992 Members of the opposition will have to face up to the answers because the Bill will be introduced into this. House and they will have the opportunity of saymg whether they support this major benefit to Victorians or whether they do not. The SPEAKER (Hon. Ken Coghill) took the chair at 2.5 p.m. and read the prayer. SEC POWER CONTRAcr

Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE Party) - Will the Premier explain to the House why the 3O-year "take or pay" contract with Mission Energy will be priced significantly above the price of LOYYANG B POWER STATION electricity from other Victorian power stations and from interstate sources of supply? Mr KENNElT (Leader of the Opposition) - Will Ms KIRNER (Premier) -It is heartening that at the Premier explain why the government has sold last the opposition has to focus on an issue that is out Victorians by selling 40 per cent of the Loy Yang important in terms of its detail. We are hearing no B power station at an electricity price of 6.8 cents a more one-liners such as, 'We will privatise the SECV kilowatt hour, which is uncompetitive and which and the Gas and Fuel Corporation." will result in higher charges and add to Victoria's unemployment? The opposition has to face up to a proposition that will be carefully spelt out and will show that the Ms KIRNER (Premier) - Clearly, the decision to decision taken for private sector investment will obtain private investment in the construction of the ensure, both in its own specific decision and in its Loy Yang B power station is a major benefit for the flow-on effects to the whole of the SECV's prOvision Victorian community. The opposition's only policy of electricity, that we will be able to compete in the on debt is that it will totally privatise both the State national electricity grid on a most effective basis. Electricity Commission (SEC) and the Gas and Fuel Corporation, and in that case it is surprising that the I look forward to the debate about some real issues, opposition believes the government's decision and I look forward to these people having to face up should be criticised without having carefully to the fact that they have no more policies -- analysed it in the way my government has done. Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National It is perfectly clear from the decision made by the Party) - On a point of order, Mr Speaker, on the government that there will be major pluses for this point of relevance, I ask you to direct the Premier community by the final signing period at the end of back to the question, which was why the price that J~e. The major pluses will be in the following Victoria has committed itself to for the next 30 years, fields: the first is the reduction of debt. Over the past through the Mission Energy contract, will be few weeks the government has heard nothing from Significantly higher than the price of power from the opposition but an emphasis on debt; members of other Victorian power stations and from interstate. the opposition have said that debt is the main issue. Suddenly, when the government has come up with a The SPEAKER - Order! At this stage of the proposal to enable major private sector investment Premier's reply I take her to be providing in infrastructure in the State, to enable the SEC and background information to set her answer in the public sector to reduce debt and to enable a context, and I ask the Premier to relate her remarks lower interest rate to be paid, members of the to the question asked by the Leader of the National opposition shift to the issue of customer service. Party. The government's decision clearly addresses both Ms KIRNER (Premier) - I shall spell out the th?se issues. It also makes it clear that the projected three major benefits to the community from the pnce of electricity will be within increases in the decision. The first -- consumer price index; and the government is clear that it is in the interests of the consumers. All those Honourable members interjecting. details are spelt out and they will be available to the shadow Treasurer and the Leader of the Opposition. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

544 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 7 April 1992

Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National In respect of the point of order raised by the Leader Party) - On a further point of order, Mr Speaker, of the National Party as to whether the Premier was the Premier is now clearly debating the issue. You debating the question in her answer, I do not uphold directed her that following her preamble she should the point of order. return to answering the nub of the question. Ms KIRNER (Premier) - The question from the Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - On the point Leader of the National Party went to the issue of of order, Mr Speaker, this is another example of the competitive pricing. The benefits of competitive Leader of the National Party not wanting to hear the pricing for Victoria through the national electricity answer. The fact of the matter is that he asked grid, to which we will move - and we will move questions directly relating to the benefits that would further into that as a result of the decisions of the flow to Victoria from the project, but when the forthcoming Premiers Conference - and the Premier outlines the benefits -- flow-on of benefits from our decision will be considerable. They will result from: the reduction of Honourable members interjecting. debt, which will therefore reduce recurrent costs; the flow-on effect of increased productivity caused by The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the private sector investment in the Loy Yang B power National Party was given the opportunity of raising station to the total State ElectriCity Commission a further point of order very shortly after a previous process; and the resultant slower rates of increases in one. I suggest he now allow other honourable electricity tariffs that will come from those members, particularly the Deputy Premier, who productivity changes. wish to comment on the point raised by the point of order, to do so without interruption and assistance. I know the opposition does not want to face up to this real decision. It wants to keep saying, 'We will Mr Stockdale interjected. privatise the SECV; we will take however many billion" - I think it was $8 billion - "off debt in ten The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the Deputy years," but it is not prepared to say how it will do it. Leader of the Opposition. He is well aware of the provisions of Standing Orders and, if necessary, I am The government has made an historic decision for prepared to take the appropriate action against him. Victoria in the reduction of debt and in our competitive participation in the national electricity Mr KENNAN - Thank you very much, Mr grid. I look forward to the debate, the analYSiS, and Speaker. When the Premier outlines the three the result. benefits from the project members of the opposition do not want to hear about it because whenever the COODE ISLAND REPORT government points out the benefits of what it is doing the opposition immediately takes points of Mr SHELL (Geelong) - Will the Premier inform order. the House of the steps the government is taking to implement the recommendations of the Coode Clearly, the Premier was outlining the benefits to the Island review panel report released today? community, matters which relate directly to the question. It does not matter whether or not the Ms KIRNER (Premier) - Mr Speaker -- opposition is embarrassed by the answer - that cannot be a point of order - but consistently Mr Leigh interjected. opposition members are seeking to take points of order on the grounds that they are embarrassed by Ms KIRNER - Your party made sure you lost the answer and do not want to hear about it, and your seat and it showed great judgment. You were that is not a point of order. very lucky to gain preselection for another seat. The government has accepted the Coode Island review Mr F. P. Sheehill\ interjected. panel recommendations that west Point Wilson is the best site available to establish a liquid chemical The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the honourable facility to meet international best standards. member for Ballarat South. He is well aware of the provisions of Standing Orders. If he continues to The establishment of the new facility and the defy the authority of the Chair I will take the relocation of the Coode Island facility by 1996 is an appropriate action against him. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Tuesday, 7 April 1992 ASSEMBLY 545

historic decision by the government and is one that I Clearly, a very careful environmental impact hope will be supported by the opposition. statement must be undertaken to ensure that appropriate environmental safeguards are in place Today and in the past few weeks the government before the facility is put in place. Further has made three very important decisions on major negotiations will need to be undertaken with the issues that affect the community: Coode Island, the Commonwealth government on the explosives issue Loy Yang B power station, and Priority Victoria and because the government would prefer the explosives jobs. site to be decommissioned, but, if it is not, world best practice can ensure that the two are compatible. The opposition will now have the opportunity of passing its verdict on those three issues: on Coode It is always very tempting on these issues for a Island when it receives the panel report and the government to respond to the NlMBY syndrome - appropriate briefing; on the Loy Yang B power not in my backyard - but in this case this decision station, when legislation is introduced into the will ensure that the facility at last will be in nobody's House; and on Priority Victoria when the backyard because no-one will live within 5 Appropriation Bill is introduced this week that will kilometres of the facility. Transportation cover for the Supply period the $60 million of the requirements will be made as safe as possible. An $132 million expenditure to be outlaid in the next interim task force will be set up to ensure that the financial year. development of the legislation for the authority is appropriate, and that membership of the authority The Coode Island issue and the relocation of that includes the necessary representatives of all interests. facility are very important to Victoria. Of course the decision itself is only part of the task. I take this In obtaining community response on this issue we opportunity on behalf of all members of the House have a real opportunity for the opposition to use and indeed on behalf of the people of Victoria to more than its one-liners, first,'We will shift Coode thank the panel, chaired by John Landy, for its Island", and, second, liThe panel was a waste of excellent report. time". Mr Birrell, the shadow Minister for Conservation and Environment in another place, Mr Brown interjected. asked, 'Why is the Premier wasting her time with the panel; why doesn't she get on with the job?" Ms KIRNER - He runs a very good mile as you know! Mr Kennan interjected.

Mr McNamara interjected. Ms KIRNER - We want to know what the opposition is saying now. We want to know how it Ms KIRNER - The Leader of the National Party will address this report, and the Victorian wants to know what Mr Landy's next job will be. community looks forward to its response. Mr Landy's competence and commihnent to this panel deserves better than that interjection by the LOY YANG B POWER STATION Leader of the National Party. If the Leader of the National Party wants to denigrate a person like Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - Will the Premier Mr Landy that is his business but I assure him that explain why the government is allowing its our acceptance of the unanimous recommendation short-term need for up-front cash for this year's of the panel is an important decision on an Budget to result in Victoria being locked into important report. nationally uncompetitive power prices from the Loy Yang B power station for the next 30 years? As I said, the decision itself is only part of the move to relocate Coode Island. The second part is clearly Ms KIRNER (Premier) - In the previous two the implementation. In the spring sessional period answers I have given to the questions from the the government will bring in legislation to establish opposition I clearly explained the benefits to the an authority which will be the proponent for the Victorian community of private sector investment in Point Wilson facility. 1113t authority will manage the the construction of Loy Yang Bl and B2. It is clear facility, which will be moved to Point Wilson, and it we are making a careful long-term decision, not a will have the responsibility of negotiating the one-liner that says, 'We will sell off the whole of the funding commitments both of the government and State Electricity Commission of Victoria; we will sell of the private sector. off the whole of the Gas and Fuel Corporation". We QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

546 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 7 April 1992 will ensure that the benefits that I outlined in my not a laughing matter, as the honourable member for answer to the question asked by the Leader of the Hawthorn would like to make it out to be. I dare say National Party are long-term benefits to the whole he is probably one of the authors of the letters sent to community. me asking for more resources.

SCHOOL INTEGRATION PROGRAM Prior to 1984 not one dollar was spent on this program. Everyone is calling for more resources for Mrs BARKER (Bentleigh) - Will the Minister for this area. The success of this program is such that School Education advise the House what resources demand for integration resources exceeds supply, as have been allocated to provide support for students I have said before. The carping that has occurred not being integrated into Victorian schools? only by the Herald-Sun but also by the shadow Minister for education has been accompanied by Mr J. F. McGRATH (Warmambool) - On a pOint knee-jerk responses about public inquiries being set of order, Mr Speaker, the question is broad in the up, and I continually hear that the integration way it is couched and it should therefore be put on program with its resources is operated to the notice and deemed inadmissible in questions detriment of special schools. without notice. Let us look at the funding of students with The SPEAKER -Order! There is no pOint of disabilities in the special school setting. We order. increased it from some $40 million overall to more than $95 million now. That includes $70 million to Mr POPE (Minister for School Education) - The special schools plus the direct costs and transport government has made a commitment to the costs, making it $95 million in this special school integration of students with disabilities in this State, area. At the same time as we have dramatically a commitment which never existed until 1983 when increased that area there has been a 43 per cent a report was commissioned by the now honourable reduction in the number of school-age children in member for Footscray, then the Minister for special schools. We can hold our heads high in Education. Since then fW1ding for the integration relation to the special schools and integration program for students with disabilities in the school programs because we are world leaders. We spent system has increased year after year. In 1984 it was $44 million this year alone - but not one dollar has $500 000; in 1985, $6.2 million; in 1988, $20.8 miliion; ever come from the opposition! in 1989, $27 million; in 1990, $37 million; last year $39 million; and this financial year in excess of ELECTRICITY TARIFFS $44 million. Mr PLOWMAN (Evelyn) - I refer to the The front page of yesterday's Herald-Sun was of Premier's decision to commit Victoria to concern to many Victorians. It referred to a draft uncompetitive electricity tariffs for at least three report of the Auditor-General about some decades. Will she explain to the House the factors $76 million hole - it was called a black hole - with that will persuade any industry with Significant respect to the integration of students with power needs to stay in Victoria or to invest in disabilities. Not only is that front-page article in the Victoria given the lower costs of electricity in New Herald-Sun wrong but this subject was not even South Wales and Queensland? covered in any draft report of the Auditor-General. Once again it is another beat-up by the Herald-Sun in Ms KIRNER (Premier) - It is amazing that an the area of education, but this beat-up affects 5000 opposition party that supports competition for students out there in normal schools and their competition's sake cannot see the benefits of parents who are currently engaged in the integration introducing competition into the power industry in programs. Victoria.

As I have said before in this House and as I said to As I have said in answer to a number of questions the Estimates Subcommittee of the Economic and today, this decision marks an historic change for the Budget Review Committee last week, the success of electricity industry in Victoria. The decision will this program is evident day after day from letters I reduce debt and increase competition and therefore receive from members of the opposition asking for it will challenge productivity within the industry. more resources to be spent in this area. In excess of The decision falls within the current price range, $44 million is now being spent on this program. It is allowing for CPI increases. In the Loy Yang B area QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

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the productivity effects from the greenfield site on this one! The Bill that will be introduced into this development will allow a flow-on to the rest of the House, which the opposition can address, and the SEC and, indeed, will allow Victoria to participate discussions at the special Premiers Conference will well in the national electricity grid. show that this decision will put Victoria in a very effective situation in terms of the national electricity Victorian industry will be behind the decision and grid. Without this decision Victoria would have will have a commibnent in the Bill that goes through been prey to New South Wales, which would have this House because of the benefits that will be moved far ahead by privatising its electricity available. industry.

1 look forward not simply to the questions and We are now putting in place a decision - and the answers provided in this House - and, no doubt, opposition will be able to assist - that is for Victoria later in the Upper House because "the listener", the and for greater competition. shadow Minister for Conservation and Environment, was standing at the door - but also In terms of employment, our effective participation to a proper debate about the direction of the power in the national electricity grid - which I note from industry in Victoria. The government has taken an what I heard this morning, at least on the radio, the important step towards that. opposition supports - will generate more jobs for Victoria, not fewer. LOY YANG B POWER STATION We will be able to see how the careful discussions Mr W. D. McGRATH (Lowan) - Considering and negotiations led by the Minister for the high rate of unemployment in Victoria due to the Manufacturing and Industry Development will government's mismanagement, will the Premier deliver benefits to Victorians - far more than the explain why she proposes further reduced -- non-policies and constant criticism of the opposition, which is not prepared to stand behind Victoria when Honourable members interjecting. we have made a good decision.

The SPEAKER - Order! There is far too much RAPID TRANSIT LINK interjection from my right and it is impossible for the Chair to hear the question. 1 ask the honourable Mr GA VIN (Coburg) - Will the Minister for member to recommence. Major Projects advise the House of the progress of the proposed rapid transit link between the central Mr W. D. McGRATH -Given the high rate of business district and Melbourne Airport? unemployment in Victoria due to government mismanagement, will the Premier now explain why Mr KENNAN (Minister for Major Projects) - I she is proposing to further reduce employment thank the honourable member for his ongoing opportunities in Victoria by selling Loy Yang Band interest in this project and other major projects and agreeing to uncompetitive prices? developments around Melbourne Airport.

Ms KIRNER (Premier) -I know the Deputy Members of the House will be aware that, together Leader of the National Party was reading his with the Federal government and the Committee for question. It could be he got the opposition policy Melbourne, the government has supported a wrong but I think I detected a query as to why we proposal to upgrade international transport links by were allowing private sector invesbnent in Loy encouraging a second international airline to base Yang B, and a suggestion that perhaps we should itself in Melbourne; and in that regard we have been not be doing that. How strange! I thought private successful in getting a change of Federal investment was part of the opposition's policy as government policy. well as the policy of the government! That is reflected in the Prime Minister's One Nation It appears that when the heat is put on members of statement and is a direct result of actions taken by the opposition to focus on a real policy and a real the Victorian government with the support of the solution - not a one-liner and not something Committee for Melbourne. It must be recognised dreamt up for film or cameras or for rhetoric on the that this was a process in which the opposition radio - they shift and move, and duck and weave parties made little input. so they do not have to face up to policy issues. Not QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

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Another part of the overall shared vision of the The time allowed for expressions of interest in the Committee for Melbourne and the Victorian link expires at the end of April. We are seeking government is a private rapid transit link between private sector support for it and, in addition to that, the airport and the city similar to those that operate together with the Federal government, we have in many comparable international cities. This has brought about changes in Federal taxation policy always been seen as a private sector initiative. It is that will facilitate private sector investment. ironic that this is yet another example of the government's departing from what has been, in I find it extraordinary that the opposition parties in many senses, the tradition in this and other States for this State choose to do nothing but knock this sort of many years, by seeking private sector investment in project. Indeed, the liberal candidate -- the operations of this sort of link. Yet we have heard nothing but criticism of this proposal from the Honourable members interjecting. opposi tion. Mr KENNAN - I understand the opposition's A t the end of December the government called for embarrassment. The liberal candidate for Niddrie expressions of interest in the proposal, and that has come out and knocked this as simply a process will finish at the end of April. Significant pipedream. It is another example of the government interest in the operations of the link has already been going after new investment opporhmities and shown by the private sector both here and overseas. encouraging the private sector while an opponent Market research commissioned by the government, knocks projects like this. Our candidate for Niddrie which has recently been carried out and which will will have no problems whatever because all his be made available to those who express interest in liberal Party opponent does is knock projects like the proposal, looks at potential customer demand this. He says it is a pipedream. like the shadow for a rapid transit link. There has been -- Minister, the liberal candidate for Niddrie does not want any part of it. Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) - On a point of order, Mr Speaker, the Deputy Premier is normally very The government is encouraging these sorts of articulate, but it appears that on this occasion he has long-term projects with private sector investment prepared not only the question but obviously also and all we hear from the opposition is yahooing and the answer. I wonder whether the Deputy Premier knocking all the way down the line, even at the local will make his notes available to the House. electorate level.

The SPEAKER - Order! If the Minister is GAS AND FUEL CORPORATION reading from a document, he may be required to make it available to the House; however, if he is only Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - I refer the referring to notes, he will not. I ask the Deputy Prernier to her public commitment that she is willing Premier to say whether he is reading from a to address the question of part privatisation of the document. Gas and Fuel Corporation of Victoria and to her Treasurer's implacable opposition to that concept, Mr KENNAN (Minister for Major Projects) - I and I ask: which is the official position of the was referring to notes but not reading from a government? document. The opposition was well aware of that fact. The market research indicates a high level of Ms KIRNER (Premier) - I am very interested support for a potential patronage of between that the questions on Loy Yang B have stopped so 17 million and 24 million trips annually, partly from quickly; it seems that the real interest in Loy Yang B commuters and partly from airlines. was to cause a bit of a stir rather than to get a resolution. The opposition does not like the answers The market research commissioned by the Major given by the government because the benefit to the Projects Unit, which retained Ove Arup and Partners Victorian community has been proved. to carry out the study, indicates that both in respect of airport travellers and commuters on the particular When questioned by the media on the injection of routes there is a surprisingly low degree of price private equity into the Gas and Fuel Corporation of sensitivity and that the potential speed of the Victoria or the State Electricity Commission of journey forecast in the studies of between Victoria, I made clear, and have made quite clear to 16 minutes and 24 minutes, depending on the the Cabinet, that I believe it is incumbent on the number of stops, is remarkably effective. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

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government to consider a proposal put up by a create in total some 600 jobs, which will start government authority. flowing very soon.

It is interesting that on this matter of injection of Therefore I was very surprised last week to see a private funding into Loy Yang B the SEC supports press release from the opposition which attempted the Mission Energy decision. It seems to me to be to scuttle these projects by announcing that there extraordinary for the opposition side that is was a $2.2 million funding gap on water projects. constantly criticising our conunitment to reform to What the opposition has done - I do not think it say in relation to either Loy Yang B or the Gas and was the honourable member for Syndal because he Fuel Corporation that matters proposed by agencies is not known for his knowledge on financial matters and authorities themselves should not be considered. at the least, so I think it much more likely some backroom brains trust - is added up the numbers Having said that, I point out that we are unlike the indicated in my press release on these issues, which opposition, whose policy is to sell the whole of the amounted to $5.4 million and included the figures SEC and the Gas and Fuel Corporation regardless of on page 18 of the Premier's statement, which any of the issues we have been raising. That is its amounted to $3.08 million. However, the trouble is policy -one-liners that we have seen in the lOO-line that the opposition had not read the paragraph that debt policy. In contrast to the opposition's policy of, explained what those figures were. The statement 'We will sell them, we will flog them off", the explains them as follows: government's position is that the SEC and the Gas and Fuel Corporation overall should remain in The government will contribute $3.4 million over three public ownership. years in cash grants and $2 million in debt forgiveness, costed at 10 per cent per annum. WATER INDUSTRY PROJECTS If opposition members had bothered to read that Mr McDONALD (Whittlesea) - Will the sentence they would have realised that $3.4 million Minister for Water Resources advise the House of and $2 million adds up to $5.4 million, which is the implications of the water industry projects in the exactly the figure contained in my press statement. government's Priority Victoria statement for employment? I might add that in contrast to the opposition the water boards and sewerage authorities concerned Mc CRABB (Minister for Water Resources) - are delighted with the government's projects, and it One of the largest water projects announced in the was only yesterday that the Orbost Water Board Priority Victoria statement is the commencement of wrote to me congratulating the Premier on the jobs the Wimmera/Mallee pipeline, which will create 300 statement and indicating to me that its project jobs and have a very beneficial effect on the would be going ahead in the very near future. environment. Seven other water or sewerage schemes are contained within the package. They Despite the opposition's inability to do the most include the Marlo sewerage scheme and the Lake basic arithmetical calculations I am pleased to say Tyers sewerage scheme, both of which are important that the sewerage and water authorities of this State in environmental terms; the MacArthur water can see past them. supply scheme and the Violet Town water supply treatment facility, both of which are important for PRIVATISATION the people in those towns and for health reasons; and the Maiden Gully sewerage scheme, the Mr I. W. SMITH (Polwarth) - I refer the Nagambie water treatment plant and the Marysville Treasurer to his often-stated public refusal to sewerage scheme. All these projects are effective in contemplate private ownership of government creating jobs, as well as being important for the authorities such as the Gas and Fuel Corporation, in environment, and all that was necessary was for the contrast to his Premier saying that she was willing to government to provide a relatively small amount of consider private investment in the corporation and I money to enable them to go ahead, largely with ask: what action will the Treasurer take to correct funding from the water authorities themselves. these confusing signals in the marketplace, which are damaging Victoria's capacity to attract These projects are very welcome in country Victoria, investment? not just because of their nature but because they will PETITIONS

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Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) -My position is I am pleased also to announce that it will be done in quite clear and has often been repeated. I believe conjunction with local government authorities. there is a strong and substantial case to be made for Firstly, we will be targeting the most frail and the retention of the public authorities in public disadvantaged older people in their communities. I ownership and control. Within that I quite accept the look forward to all members of the House need to examine equity injections, as substantiated participating in the program. by my acceptance of and support for the Loy Yang proposal. Booklets like Confident Living for Older Victorians inform older people what they can do in a personal Mr MAUGHAN (Rodney) - I refer the Treasurer sense by following a healthy lifestyle, and help to to his statement to the House that the government ensure they can look after themselves when they are intended to retain statutory authorities in full public out and about in the community. ownership and I ask: did he intend to contradict the Premier, or was he simply confused on this matter? We owe a great debt to older people in this community. It is time my generation did something The SPEAKER - Order! The question appears to positive and worthwhile for older people. The be the same as the one just asked. I invite the program is distinctly about ensuring that older honourable member for Rodney to rephrase his people receive practical help, advice and support to question. enable them to live confidently and to enjoy the best years of their lives. Mr MAUGHAN (Rodney) - I ask the Treasurer whether there is a difference of view between PETITIONS himself and the Premier on public ownership of statutory authorities. The Clerk -I have received the following petitions for presentation to Parliament Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - No. Companion Animals Bill SENIOR CITIZENS To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the Mrs WILSON (Dandenong North) - Will the Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: Minister for Police and Emergency Services inform the House of the measures the government is taking The humble petition of the undersigned sheweth that to improve the safety of Victoria's senior citizens? the Companion Animals Act currently before the Parliament of Victoria is unacceptable in its present Mr SANDON (Minister for Police and form. Emergency Services) -Providing support to older people has to be one of the most important priorities The legislation will not solve the problems of straying, of any government. Today I am pleased to announce fouling and excessive and irresponsible breeding of that the government has initiated a confident living companion animals. program for older people. Older people score very low rates in victimisation statistics, but high rates in The legislation is unacceptable. fear levels. It is important to give them information through booklets, videos and seminars on what is Further consultation with the public and interested happening on public safety issues. groups is required before any legislation is enacted.

The government has gone into partnership with Your petitioners therefore pray that this House will service clubs such as the Apex Club and the Lions defer the legislation pending consultation and review Club, the police, the Country Fire AuthOrity, the with interested groups. Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board and the State Emergency Service to provide safety and security And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. devices for older people. By Mr Cunningham (222 signatures) We will be providing peepholes, door locks and security devices as well as smoke detectors. The program will be initiated Statewide across rural and urban Victoria. ADMINISTRA TIVE ARRANGEMENTS

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Apollo Bay water supply Metropolitan Fire Brigades Superannuation Board - Report for the year 1990-91 To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: Parliamentary Contributory Superannuation Fund - Report for the year 1990-91 The humble petition of the undersigned residents and friends of Apollo Bay, citizens of the State of Victoria, Planning and Environment Act 1987 - Notices of sheweth that decisions taken by the Colac District approval of amendments to the following Planning Water Board, without reference to its constituents, will Schemes: lead to the degradation of the Apollo Bay water supply Altona Planning Scheme - No. UO and its catchments. Ballarat (Shire) Planning Scheme - No. L25 Timber industry "interests" have ensured the board's Berwick Planning Scheme - No. U8 endorsement of further logging of the catchments; and a "closed", premature decision has been made to Box Hill Planning Scheme - No. Ll6 disinfect the Apollo Bay water system with hazardous Brunswick Planning Scheme - No. Ll6 chemicals. Camberwell Planning Scheme - No. U6 Your petitioners therefore pray that you will intervene Deakin Planning Scheme - No. Ll6 to ensure: Doncaster and Templestowe Planning Scheme - that logging of the catchments, and the No. L36 chlorination of the Apollo Bay water supply, be not permitted to proceed; and Essendon Planning Scheme - No. llB

a wide-ranging, independent water-testing Footscray Planning Scheme - No. U1 program be conducted to provide an accurate, Frankston Planning Scheme - No. L34 comprehensive profile of the water supply, and enable specific problems to be ascertained and Hawthorn Planning Scheme - No. U1 properly addressed. Melbourne Planning Scheme - No. L71 And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. Mordialloc Planning Scheme - No. U By Mr I. W. Smith (368 signatures) Morwell Planning Scheme - No. 1.32 MyrtIeford Planning Scheme - No. L24 Laid on table. Narracan Planning Scheme - No. U6 ADMINISTRATIVE ARRANGEMENTS Nunawading Planning Scheme - Nos Ll9, 1.39 Ms KIRNER (Premier) presented Administrative Preston Planning Scheme - No. L30 Arrangements Orders Nos 103 and 104. Warracknabeal Planning Scheme - No. LS Laid on table. Waverley Planning Scheme -No. L23 PAPERS Werribee Planning Scheme - No. 1.31 Williamstown Planning Scheme - No. L8 Laid on table by Oerk: Wodonga Development Areas Planning Scheme - No.L7 Dietitians Board - Report for the year 1989-90 Yackandandah Planning Scheme - No. L8 Emergency Services Superannuation Board - Report Statutory Rules under the following Acts: for the year 1990-91 Adoption Act 1984 - SR No. 45 Judicial Remuneration - Order in Council authorising Cancer Act 1958 - SR No. 40 maximum expenditure for the Board of Inquiry into Judicial Remuneration Fuel Prices Regulation Act 1981-SR No. 43 Land Tax (Revision) Act,1991 - SR No. 47 APPROPRIA TION MESSAGE

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Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works Act desexing of companion animals; and to educate the 1958 -SR Nos 41, 42, 44, 46 community. Public Service Act 1974 -SR No. 29, and Public For many years I have had an interest in animal Service Determinations No.7 welfare. As a farmer of 25 years standing I had a Teaching Service Act 1981-SR No. 30 practical interest in animal welfare. I was a member of the Minister's animal welfare advisory council. Tobacco Act 1987 - SR No. 28 For a number of years I was the national spokesman Transport Superannuation Board - Report for the year for the pig industry on animal welfare matters. I also 1990-91 spent some time overseas on a Churchill Fellowship studying animal welfare. For all those reasons I am Tricontinental Royal Commission - Order in Council pleased to speak on the Bill today. authorising maximum expenditure for the Tricontinental Royal Commission The Bill is before the House because there has been widespread interest in this subject for many years. In Yarra Bend Park Trust - Report for the year 1990-91 1984 and 1987 the Animal Welfare Advisory Committee examined the issue and referred it to the ...... Social Development Committee for investigation and recommendation. I believe the committee did an Proclamations fixing operative dates in respect of excellent job in investigating the matter and in May following Acts pursuant to Order of the House 1989 it presented a well researched and well dated 25 October 1988: reasoned report that contained more than 60 specific recommendations. Children and Young Persons Act 1989 - Sections 73(3)(e) and 75; 18 March 1992 (Gazette No. 54, 18 March, I wish the government had taken a little more notice 1992) than it has of the specific recommendations of the committee, which spent much time and effort Adult, Community and Further Education Act 1991 - researching this subject. Had this government done Whole Act; 19 March 1992 (Gazette No. 54, 18 March, so I believe there would not be a dispute over the 1992) matter between the government and the opposition. The committee made a number of sound Health Services (Conciliation and Review) (Further recommendations which, had they been included in Amendment) Act 1991-Section 10; 1 April 1992 the legislation, would have made it a better measure. (Gazette No. G12, 25 March 1992) Instead the government brought in legislation that contains provisions quite different from the Building C~perative Housing and Friendly Societies recommendations of the Social Development (Amendment) Act 1990 -Sections 3, 4, 5 and 6; 1 April Committee. 1992 (Gazette No. G13, 1 April 1992). The Bill as it is presented is supported by the Royal APPROPRIATION MESSAGE Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (RSPCA), the Lost Dogs Home and the Cat Message read recommending appropriation for Protection Society. On the other hand, there has been Monash University (Pharmacy College) Bill. strong opposition to it, mainly from local government - specifically the Municipal COMPANION ANIMALS BILL Association of Victoria (MA V) - but also from horse and cat owners. I have received more mail on Second reading this particular issue than on any other since I have been a member of Parliament, and almost all of it Debate resumed from 26 March; motion of Mr has been in opposition to the legislation. BAKER (then Minister for Agriculture). I compliment the Minister for Food and Agriculture Mr MAUGHAN (Rodney) - In general I support on having the good sense to remove the mention of the aims of this important Bill: to improve animal horses from the Bill, and I hope there will be a welfare; to reduce the number of stray and separate piece of legislation relating to them. It was unwanted companion animals; to encourage the totally inappropriate to include horses in this legislation, just as I believe it is inappropriate for the COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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Minister of the day to have the power to declare any and dogs. Different solutions are required and a animal a companion animal. different Bill is required.

Therefore we should confine our remarks to cats and Before commenting further on horses, I shall quote a dogs, for they are essentially what this legislation number of the key recommendations of the Social deals with. While there has been a polarisation of Development Committee, some of which were views from animal welfare organisa tions on the one overlooked in the drafting of the Bill. The hand and pet owners and municipalities on the recommendations are, firstly: other, there has been little common ground anywhere. After considerable debate there is still a That companion animals legislation be developed to wide division over which way the Bill should go. It cover the keeping of dogs, cats and horses and the is unfortunate that there has been some distortion of regulation of companion animal businesses. the facts in the public debate and registration fees of $100 and $200 have been mentioned. That is clearly I agree with that recommendation entirely. It conjecture, and much of it has been mischievous. It continues: has led to a debate that has been less informed than it might have been. Such legislation to involve two separate Acts: a 'Companion Animals Act' and a 'Horse Act'. Before I go any further I should congratulate the Minister on at least having the courage to do That is clear, and I support it. We deal with dogs something about animal welfare legislation. It is and cats on the one hand, and horses on the other long overdue in Victoria, and while I disagree with hand in completely separate Bills. Instead of that many of the provisions in the Bill, I believe concept, the govenunent has introduced a Bill giving something needs to be done about animal welfare. the Minister power to declare any animal, simply by At least we have a Bill that deals with the issue regulation, a companion animal. That is crazy and before the House and perhaps we will take from it unacceptable, and quite rightly the community is and agree on some of the more useful provisions in concerned about the Minister having those sorts of it. powers.

However, as I have indicated, I believe the Bill was Another recommendation is: not properly thought out and did not take sufficient account of the recommendations of the Social That a mandatory permanent identification system Development Committee's report. This is not based on implantable microchip technology be unique. The govenunent has a habit of establishing introduced for dogs and cats on a Statewide basis. committees, spending a great deal of money on detailed inquiries and completely rejecting the Again the microchip technology has not been taken recommendations of those committees. into account in the Bill. Recommendation No. 8 is:

Fresh in my mind is the govenunent's rejection of That the Statewide identification system based on one of the key recommendations of another report of implantable microchip technology be introduced over a the committee dealing with speed limits. In passing, period of two years from the date of proclamation of I point out that if we are to have an effective the appropriate legislation. committee system - and I strongly believe in such a system because it is an important part of the I fully support that recommendation as well as the workings of Parliament - where members of both following: sides of the House work together for a common purpose and in many cases produce unanimous That municipalities be free to negotiate commercial recommendations, it is up to the govenunent of the contracts with animal welfare shelters, other day to take a little more regard of the reasoning municipalities or private facilities for the provision of behind those reports ra ther than, as sometimes pound facilities which comply with the appropriate happens, rejecting the recommendations outright. code of practice and hence satisfy registration requirements of the proposed legislation. As I said, it is not appropriate for horses to be included in the Bill because the problems relating to There are a number of other detailed them are different from the problems relating to cats recommendations from the Social Development COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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Committee's report, which I would have hoped and to sell it for slaughter rather than leaving it to would have been incorporated in the Bill. waste away in a paddock.

Although horses will not now be included in the Bill, Essentially the legislation deals with dogs and cats. I I should like to take this opportunity of commenting support its aims and objectives in general although I briefly on the problem of horses in our community differ from the government about the means of because of the large number of neglected and achieving those aims. I hope that during the debate unwanted horses. we can reach some common ground and consensus on this issue. One sees them on the outskirts of Melbourne and on the outskirts of our large regional towns as well as in I see no problem with dogs. I believe the Dog Act, country areas, and there are a number of reasons for which was introduced in 1970, has served the this. One is that children outgrow their ponies and community well, although I know even today the their interests change, but the ponies or horses are number of dog registrations is fewer than we would still there, and frequently families are not quite sure desire - 50 per cent in some municipalities - with what to do with them. On many occasions people the highest that I am aware of being approximately simply shut their minds to the problem and leave 70 per cent of dogs actually registered. I strongly the horses in the paddocks at Melton or Pakenham support the financial incentive to desex dogs and or to the north of Victoria or wherever it might be also to apply that same principle to cats. and forget about them. I support clause 84, which deals with dangerous We have real welfare problems with horses, and dogs, and I suggest that to describe a dog as nothing can be done about that except to encourage dangerous because of its deeds rather than its breed more responsible ownership. That is something we is an important principle. I do not believe you can must address. generalise and say that a particular breed of dog is dangerous. We must judge them on their deeds Another problem is racehorses that no longer have a ra ther than their breeds. commercial value. A racehorse or harness racing horse that has served its useful life and no longer has I support the provision that enables fanners to too many wins is a problem for the owner who destroy dogs or cats - if appropriate - that come decides that the cost of keeping that horse in training onto their properties causing damage to sheep and is no longer warranted, so the horse is put onto the cattle. That has been occurring for many years and I market. am pleased that enshrined in legislation will be the provision that the farming community has the right Often these horses finish up at the market in my to deal with dogs that cause inordinate trauma and home town of Echuca and are sold for $100. Low destruction to sheep, calves and other animals. value for a good horse! The owners have some fun for a year or two and then the horse is neglected. There is general agreement in the community that we have a large problem with unwanted cats - feral I believe a ready solution for this problem would be and stray. About 900 000 cats live in Victoria. The to raise the commercial value of the horses, which Social Development Committee put the number at can be done easily by establishing an abattoir in this 849000 and, although it is not possible to count State to slaughter horses for human consumption. I them, I believe that would be about the figure. Of do not suggest that they are used for human those, between 200 000 and 300 000 are accepted to consumption in this State, but honourable members be strays, unwanted or feral cats. They are the cats should be aware that abattoirs in Australia slaughter that cause the problems. ApprOximately 45 000 such horses for human consumption and the horseflesh is cats are picked up by various municipal councils exported. and welfare shelters and approximately 35 000 are destroyed each year. It is ridiculous for us to truck horses to an abattoir in South Australia when we could slaughter them in It is ironic that organisations like the RSPCA, the Victoria, which would provide Victorians with jobs. Lost Dogs Home and other welfare societies spend It would also raise the commercial value of horses considerable resources each year in destroying and reduce misuse. If a horse had a commercial unwanted pets. The RSPCA spends about $3 million value people would be more likely to look after it a year. Those organisations are designed to cater for the welfare of animals, yet they have to spend much COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

Tuesday, 7 April 1992 ASSEMBLY 555 of their resources on the odious task of destroying believes the Municipal Association of Victoria is well unwanted and neglected dogs and cats. placed to undertake that function.

The problem of unwanted cats must be dealt with Mr Costello further states: for a number of reasons, including their nuisance value. It is totally unacceptable to have companion ... in Kyabram's case the introduction of such animals continuing to cause a nuisance and, in those legislation would lead to a large increase in registration circumstances, it is appropriate that they be dealt fees and a lot more expense to council. with. That is typical of the responses I have received from The threat to our wildlife must be of paramount a number of councils. They are generally opposed to importance. Feral cats in particular pose a real additional costs being imposed on them and also to threat. For example, the Shire of Sherbrooke has the fact that they would be obliged to police the taken action to deal with the problem of feral cats proviSions. killing lyrebirds. To its credit, the Shire of Hamilton has taken steps to deal with the threat to the eastern Cat owners are very concerned about the proposed barred bandicoot. I support the principle behind cost of cat registration. Much publicity has distorted those actions because a municipality should have the facts; some of it has been deliberately the power to take appropriate action when it mischievous. perceives a problem. It should not be compelled to register cats and to deal with unwanted cats if it What does the legislation essentially need to do? does not perceive them as a problem. Many Everyone would agree that the legislation is municipalities do not have problems with unwanted required to promote responsible pet ownership and cats but the power should be available for any all members of the community would support that municipality to deal with stray cats and dogs. very worthy objective, but the means of achieving control are open to debate. Local government has been very concerned about this Bill because councils see it as a means of forcing The Bill is required to reduce the nuisance caused to them to assume yet another government others by companion animals and to reduce the responsibility. It is fine for the government to destruction of flora and fauna that is already legislate, but in many cases local government is left occurring. to pick up the tab. The solution to the cat problem is not a mandatory The Town of Kyabram in my electorate is vigorously registration system that involves further opposed to this Bill. I refer to an article on the front bureaucratic involvement of municipal councils and page of the Kyabram Free Press -- the Department of Food and Agriculture, but a voluntary cat identification scheme. That can be Mr Baker interjected. done in two ways - by the use of either a collar and tag, which is not 100 per cent reliable, although Mr MAUGHAN - Yes, the Minister is well many people are prepared to take that chance; or by acquainted with an old mate from way back, Bill the use of microchip technology. McCarthy, from the Kyabram Free Press. The newspaper carried a report of the meeting of the I do not understand why the Minister has not Kyabram council. Bill McCarthy quotes the chief included the microchip technology in the legislation, executive officer, John Costello, as follows: because it is obviously the way to go. There are two systems available in Australia today, the Destron One of the most ridiculous pieces of legislation I have and Trovan systems. A small microchip that has seen for a long time ... Council decided on Tuesday 1 trillion combinations and can be read with a wand night to advise the member for Rodney ... that it totally allows an animal to be identified quickly. opposes the Bill in its current form, given the attempt to introduce broad classification of companion animals, Mr Baker interjected. with particular emphasis on registration of cats. Mr MAUGHAN - I have other ways of dealing It also totally opposes establishment of a further with a feral cat. bureaucratic board to advise the Minister. Council An honourable member interjected. COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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Mr MAUGHAN - That brings me to the next (c) inspect equipment, machinery, implements ... ; or point, that a cat that is not implanted with a (e) seize, examine or take copies of, or extracts microchip or otherwise identified can be destroyed. from documents ... Under this system people who care about their animals can achieve instant identification of their The police are severely restricted in what they can animals by using a microchip system. enforce, yet authorised officers have wide-ranging powers under the Bill. The cost of the system is not as significant as has been suggested. I understand the initial fee for I strongly oppose the establishment of the Animal inserting the microchip is $28. It can then be Welfare Fund. The Bill provides that 5 per cent of the registered at a cost of $6 a year, $26 for five years or application fees collected by councils must be paid $40 for life. For an all-up cost of $68 a person can into the fund. The Animal Welfare Fund ensure identification for the life of the cat. If the cat Administration Board will be set up to administer is subsequently picked up by the authorities it can the fund, but the Bill does not clearly define how the be quickly identified and the owner notified. A money will be used. scanner to read the microchip costs in the order of $1300. People are concerned about the misuse of the fund, the cost of running the board and jobs for people in In the context of what it costs for an average person the animal welfare industry. While I strongly to keep a cat that is not a lot of money. It can cost support education, I believe education is no good anything up to $1 a day to feed a cat. If that is halved without enforcement or penalties. One need only it is in the order of $200 a year. The life of a cat is recall the drink/driving legislation. You can tell approximately 10 years, so one is looking at a cost of people that they should not drink and drive but they approximately $2000 to feed a cat over its lifetime, will not take notice unless they are forced to do so. and $50 or $60 to ensure permanent identification is They have taken notice only because booze buses insignificant in that context. and other measures have been introduced.

It is then necessary to ensure that municipalities It is the same situation with this Bill. Councils are have power to pass on unidentified cats to animal not prepared to cooperate. I suggest the Minister welfare shelters or to attempt to find a home for reconsider a number of the voluntary organisations them. I understand from the Cat Protection Society that are prepared to put money into animal welfare that only about six out of 10 000 cats are reclaimed, education. For example, the PET PEP information and in most cases cats will be destroyed. If service spends about $1 million a year. One could municipalities have the right to do that sooner rather say that organisation has a vested interest, but that than later it will be a big advance on the existing program has been prepared and in large measure situation. written by the Australian Veterinary Association. The PET PEP service has been implemented in There has been a lot of discussion about clause 88 of Western Australia, Queensland and South Australia, the Bill concerning the powers of inspectors. That and is under consideration in Tasmania. provision is draconian and gives inspectors powers to enter property - powers that even the police do In conclusion, I acknowledge there is a problem with not have. animal welfare in the State, particularly with the number of unwanted dogs, cats and horses. Impulse Clause 88(2) of the Bill states: buying is one of the problems that should be dealt with. I have spoken about the problem of unwanted For the purposes of sub-section (1) an authorised officer horses and their commercial value. There should be may- support for an education program, but I oppose many of the principles in the Bill because local (a) at any reasonable time and by any reasonable government, the horse industry and cat owners are means and with any assistance which the opposed to the Bill. I am pleased that horses have authorised officer requires enter land, been dropped from the Bill. I hope the Minister will buildings not occupied as places of take up the opposition's alternative for voluntary residence ... ; or identification. (b) search any land or buildings or any part of any land or buildings not occupied as places of Mr AUSTIN (Ripon) - I join in this debate on residence ... ; or the Companion Animals Bill that was introduced in COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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the spring sessional period last year. It has been a amendments, although I understand some members controversial subject. The lying-over period has on this side of the House have seen them; I do not allowed for the essential exercise of discussion, complain about that. consultation and debate to take place. The matter of what should be the law on keeping Two measures stand out in the proposed legislation: cats, dogs and horses involves people in both firstly, the huge problem that exists in the animal country areas and in the cities, and different views welfare area, particularly with cats, dangerous dogs are held on what should be done. Some of the issues and the agistment of horses. I have a great deal of have been controversial and have been discussed sympathy for those who are trying to do something over many years. about these problems. Secondly, there is no easy fix to those particular problems. Various groups of people are directly associated with both companion and other animals. Firstly, The issue of what should be done about cats, dogs there are animal owners and animal lovers; and horses is considered to be serious. The secondly, there are the various welfare agencies; government presented the matter to members of the and, of course, the Municipal Association of Social Development Committee to study and take Victoria -- submissions on, among other things. Members of the all-party committee did a great deal of work on the Mr Evans - What do you think of the animal matter and eventually produced a comprehensive libbers? report containing recommendations that form the basis of the Companion Animals Bill. Mr AUSTIN - I have not really had much to do with them on this particular issue. Some tribute should be paid to the Minister for Food and Agriculture. He has at least had a go at trying to Dr Napthine - But you have on the duck issue? come to grips with what is a real problem. I acknowledge, as I am sure do other honourable Mr AUSTIN - Yes, I have enough problems members on both sides of the House, that he is with them on other issues. trying to do something about the problem. As I said, honourable members have different like other speakers from the opposition benches, I options open to us. They include letting the Bill pass do not agree with all that is contained in the through both Houses. Honourable members could proposed legislation. The Bill has considerable take the view that it is government legislation; it has weaknesses, as is the case with any legislation some problems or bugs in it that will result in the proposed to provide a comprehensive solution to a government having a difficult time in administering difficult problem. the legislation, but it is the government's legislation and it can suffer the consequences of those We on this side of the House must be constructive in provisions that members of the opposition do not the stand we take and the comments we make. As believe will work satisfactOrily. Such an attitude the Deputy Leader of the National Party said when would be irresponsible. the Bill was last before the House, the Companion Animals Bill has at least given honourable members Members of the opposition could - and still can - the opportunity of taking part in a full and frank make substantial amendments to the legislation. discussion on the matter. At the same time as However, a Bill that has been discussed for as long criticising aspects of the proposed legislation, as this one, with dozens of amendments made to it, honourable members on this side of the House will does not become particularly good legislation. make useful suggestions as to how it can be improved. Members of the opposition could ask the government to withdraw and rewrite the proposed Honourable members have several options when legislation. That option is obviously still open to facing the problem of making a decision on how to honourable members. deal with the proposed legislation. It may be gleaned from the remarks of some speakers that Another option is that the opposition could defeat decisions remain to be made. I understand that the the Bill in the other place. That option also is still government will move a large number of open. amendments to the Bill. I have not seen the COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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The option I favour is that the Bill be withdrawn and detennining who is responsible for the horses. The rewritten. I do not know whether the Deputy Leader RSPCA may know who owns the land the horses are of the National Party agrees with that. on, but the owners of the horses may have delivered them only a day or a week before and their Mr W. D. McGrath - It is an option. condition at that time is the responsibility of the owners of the horses, not the owners of the land. Mr AUSTIN - It is an option and it is a good one. If the Bill were withdrawn, the government and I have a high regard and great respect for those the opposition could work in a bipartisan manner people who work with and are the leaders of animal with the various agencies, municipalities and animal welfare agencies. Dc Hugh Wirth and Mr Peter owners who have a keen interest in the matter. Barber from the Royal Society for the Prevention of Members of the coalition have had discussions with Cruelty to Animals do excellent work on behalf of various welfare agencies and groups wishing to animals and in educating the community in the discuss the matter as well as officers of the proper care and welfare of animals, particularly Department of Food and Agriculture, and there is no companion animals. doubt that the coalition is now better infonned about the extent of the problem and the difficulties Dc Graeme Smith from the Lost Dogs Home has that exist. contributed greatly to the welfare of animals and animal owners. He handles many unwanted animals The government, the coalition and everyone with at the home almost every day of the week. whom members of the coalition have consulted have the same objective in mind: the well-being of Dc Ca role Webb from the Cat Protection Society has companion animals. However, we must try to done a great job in assisting cats and their owners. I overcome the problems of companion animals not am impressed that these agencies and the people being looked after properly and being bred to excess. who work in them have as their first consideration the health and welfare of animals. Having that in The main difficulties people have with the Bill mind Parliament should be careful that it does not involve the provisions dealing with the cat build into the legislation provisions that lead to the population. I know the answers are not easy; unnecessary destruction of animals. If Parliament everyone who has been seriously involved in does not make the right decision there is the danger discussions on this matter would agree with that. that that could happen. No-one is pretending there is an easy solution and that the answer is not being pursued simply because A voluntary identification system exists today. people have different views. Parliament should not introduce a system where a municipality can pick up an unidentified cat and The first objective of the Bill is to promote destroy it. People may lose their cat for an hour or responsible ownership of companion animals. That two and officers from the municipality may pick it is basic to the whole issue. The second objective is to up and destroy it. Some municipalities do not want promote and protect the welfare of companion anything to do with the legislation and some animal animals and the third is to reduce overbreeding. welfare agencies do not regard it as being part of That objective basically applies to the cat population, their charter, which is to care for animals. as does the fourth objective, which is to reduce the destruction of fauna by companion animals. The Bill In 1970, when Parliament debated legislation about also regulates companion animal businesses as well the registration of dogs, there was a tremendous as the boarding and agistment of horses. outcry in the community. Many municipalities did not want a bar of the legislation. Since that It should be noted that the all-party Social legislation was introduced many rural Development Committee recommended that horses municipalities have not taken the registration of should be dealt with in separate legislation, and the dogs seriously. Municipalities that do not have a opposition shares that view. I recognise there is a problem with stray dogs do not enforce the problem with horses that are agisted. For many legislation. The same thing would happen with the years the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty registration of cats. It is better to have some system to Animals has come up against enonnous for the control of cats than no system, but difficulties when it receives reports about horses that municipalities that do not have a problem should be are ill-treated, not properly fed or dying. When the exempt from the legislation. association answers such calls it has problems in COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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In 1970, when legislation was introduced to register All honourable members would have sympathy for dogs, Victoria's population was 3.3 million and its a person in a difficult economic situation who owns dog population was approximately 500 000. three or four cats. Obviously this Bill needs to include exemptions. Nobody in his or her right mind The admissions to just one agency, the Lost Dogs would have any intention of creating a situation Home, in 1971 were 30 000 unwanted, unowned or where a cat owner is forced to get rid of his or her unclaimed dogs. Five years later in 1976 the people cats because of decisions made here in Parliament. population of Victoria was 3.8 million and the dog population had risen from 500 000 to 633 000 with Most respon..c;ible cat owners have their cats desexed. 27272 admissions to the Lost Dogs Home. In 1981 The Bill is meant to relate to irresponsible cat Victoria's population was 3.9 million and there were owners. The official figures for the number of 660 000 dogs, 13 631 of which were admitted to the desexed cats may be technically correct, but I am Lost Dogs Home. In 1988 Victoria had a population sure they do not include the dozens of people who of 4 million with 780 000 dogs and 9488 admissions have their cats desexed by friendly neighbourhood to the Lost Dogs Home. They are the last figures veterinarians who do not charge anywhere near the available but I understand the number of dogs fees that have been bandied about during the debate. admitted to the Lost Dogs Home in 1991 was a little more than 10 000 so the figure has stabilised and no The Animal Welfare Advisory Council is responsible further improvement is evident. not only for examining the issues raised by the Bill but also caring for the welfare of animals and Those figures are Significant when expressed in making recommendations to the government and percentages. The number of dogs admitted to the other organisa tions. Lost Dogs Home as a percentage of the total dog population in 1971 was 6 per cent. By 1988 it was 1 The Municipal Association of Victoria has one per cent. Although the legislation has not been representative on the council. Unless my carried out efficiently and conscientiously by many information is incorrect, the MA V representative municipalities, it has worked well. supported all of the various recommendations made about the Bill by the council. Despite that If we are to do something serious about the cat representative's support for the council's problem we must remove some of the objection to recommendations and despite the representative's this measure. Some people seem to fear it is too hard familiarity with the reasons for the decisions, a decision to make but, if implemented, it will be of recently the Municipal Association of Victoria made great benefit to Victoria. It should be recognised that an about-face and expressed strong opposition to by introducing a system of exercising more control many of the important parts of the Bill. over cats we are not expecting every cat to be caught or identified, but we really must make a start Because it comprises representatives of 210 local somewhere in overcoming a problem that we cannot councils the MA V can be a very powerful pretend is not there. We need to know who owns organisation. If every municipality in an honourable what. member's electorate - I have fourteen in my electorate - approaches the local member and says, There have been some damaging aspects of this for example, "As our local member we do not want whole issue ever since the Bill was introduced into you to have a bar of this legislation; we want you to Parliament and various discussions started. The throw it out", he or she is placed under heavy misinformation that was put out by certain people at pressure. The MA V should have a hard look at the that time has done a great deal of damage. It has way it approaches this and other issues. meant that a lot of people who really do not fully understand what is trying to be done have got off on Another aspect of the Bill about which concern has the wrong foot believing that some terrible been expressed is the extra costs facing the owners consequences will happen to them if they allow of companion animals. But when compared with the anything to be done about the control of cats. costs of keeping and feeding cats for twelve months, any additional costs to dog and cat owners will be Some have said that the cost will be so outrageously relatively small. high that many people will not be able to afford to keep cats, that dear old ladies who own half a dozen I understand why municipalities are reluctant to cats will be up for hundreds of dollars and that the become tax collectors for the government. Because of measure will therefore be completely unfair to them. the increased workload they have been forced to COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

560 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 7 April 1992 carry in recent times local councillors, who work in a year gives us some idea of the extent of the problems voluntary capacity, are unwilling to accept further caused by stray and unwanted animals. responsibilities - unless they can see a particular benefit for their municipalities. Different groups have different opinions on the issue, and it is unfortunate that many of the people A third area of concern is the supposed difficulty of who have taken part in the debate have catching cats. Although dogs are easy to catch misrepresented the truth. Vested interests have tried because invariably they come when you whistle, to influence the outcome of the debate, and we have those who wonder how cats can be trapped betray a heard from people who have shown their lack of understanding. I am sure that when you were unwillingness to act responsibly. younger, Mr Acting Speaker, you would have trapped many cats, because it is so simple to do! Although the Cat Protection Society made a very good submission it was later quoted as saying that it As honourable members who represent rural did not matter whether cats were registered, which electorates know very well, many stray cats can be was completely wrong. All the major welfare found in haysheds and barns around the country. agencies, including the RSPCA, the Lost Dogs Home Although they are seen as a problem, I do not think and the Cat Protection Society, are adamant that all that matters. After all, we are not saying that every cats must be registered. cat in Victoria has to wear an identification tag or that we have to know where every single cat is at In future debates on this issue I suggest the any time. Because cats are territorial it is government, the opposition and welfare agencies unreasonable to expect cat owners always to keep should get together to try to overcome the problems their pets inside at night. that Victoria faces as a result of the damage caused by stray cats. We should put our political differences The average Victorian is not aware of the destruction aside and work towards one end. stray animals cause; and human nature dictates that what people do not see they do not worry about it. Mrs RA Y (Box Hill) - I support the Companion Animals Bill, which has been introduced into the Although official figures state that there are 900 000 House after a lengthy consideration of the many owned cats in Victoria the Royal Society for the issues involved by the Social Development Prevention of Cruelty to Animals believes that figure Committee. is understated. The number of unowned and stray cats is believed to be between 250 000 and 300 000, The first reference on companion animals was given although, again, animal welfare agencies estimate to the committee prior to the 1988 State election. that the number is far higher. In Melbourne alone Prior to the election I had not been a member of the there are some 150 000 stray cats. subcommittee investigating the reference. However I became the chairperson of a rejuvenated inquiry Last year animal welfare centres handled 45 000 under a reconstituted committee. unwanted cats, putting down 36 000 of them. Many argue that most unwanted cats that are put down The full committee undertook its inquiry diligently are either old or diseased, but figures show that only and responsibly. We made a number of visits to 1 per cent of those 36 000 cats were old or diseased. animal welfare shelters, as a result of which The estimated cost of handling or putting down members came to realise the magnitude of the unwanted cats is $1.5 million. On average a cat kills problems caused by stray and unwanted animals. 28 birds a year. I believe that figure is understated because it amounts to one cat killing a bird every Therefore, this Bill addresses the welfare of fortnight, and every cat I have ever known kills companion animals as well as the excess numbers of more than one bird every two weeks! animals and the nuisance component they present to the community. We must keep both aspects in mind. The number of cats times the number of birds killed The Bill is now clearly intended to cover only cats means that each year some 33600 000 birds are and dogs and, as the honourable member for killed by cats, which makes you think that the efforts Rodney said, it was indeed the recommendation of of Laurie Levy and his cohorts would be better the Social Development Committee that horses applied to handling the cat population than should be dealt with under separate legislation. worrying law-abiding duck shooters in the swamps of Victoria. The number of birds killed by cats every COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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I intend basically to address the way in which That is a total of more than 2000 cats and dogs that legislation can help address the cat problem, but first have been destroyed in the first three months of this of all I shall make some comments on the provisions year in just one shelter. The president of the society relating to dogs. The hobby breeders of dogs have a and Aileen Kelly, one of the members, have directed fundamental difficulty with the broad and these current figures to our attention. comprehensive definition of companion animal businesses in the Bill in its present form. The point about cats that come into these shelters is Representations made to me by several groups that the reclamation rates are almost negligible. To suggest there needs to be a subgroup of hobby say that 6 cats out of 10 000 are reclaimed is to breeders. Such a definition might read: "A 'hobby indicate the great difficulty in returning these breeder' means a person who breeds companion animals to anything like responsible ownership or, animals for exhibitions, trials, sporting, recreation or indeed, a decent home. leisure purposes and who has no more than a specified number of fertile female animals", but In its report the Social Development Committee said certainly higher than the number prescribed in one that the problems in most cases are the results of provision of the Bill as it stands, which is three. irresponsible ownership of companion animals, but it also recognised overbreeding and hence There is no doubt that "companion animal" is too oversupply as another cause of the problem. It states: comprehensive a category and I am pleased to have handed this suggestion to the Minister for Food and The handling of these numbers of unwanted animals Agriculture for his sympathetic consideration, and I results in a large cost to the community and places look forward to an amendment being introduced considerable burdens on the municipalities, welfare which will make this differentiation so that people societies and private individuals who tackle the for whom the breeding of dogs is a hobby rather problem. than a form of business for profit are satisfied. The Bill deals seriously with ways of beginning to As many speakers have mentioned, there is no address the problem. The Social Development doubt that the cat problem is a large one. The figures Committee supported a dual approach of education have already been quoted. Certainly the animal and legislation. It is quite clear that education is a shelters in Melbourne bear the brunt of the cost of very long-term strategy. Education is a long-term this problem. Each year animal welfare shelters in solution, requires a long period to show any effect Melbourne receive 45 000 unwanted and stray cats and certainly does not deal with apathetic people. and 36 000 of those are destroyed. The financial costs The report states: run at some $1.5 million and, as I suggested, the animal welfare shelters bear the brunt of those costs. The committee concludes that a legislative approach to deal with the existing problems relating to companion The stray cat problem is different from the stray dog animals is necessary. Such legislation should address problem. Most stray cats are unowned, not lost. the nuisance aspects of companion animals and also Sixty-five per cent of the shelter intakes are in this promote the welfare of companion animals. It is the category and 98 per cent of those animals are not committee's view that new legislation should be desexed. Of the remaining 35 to 40 per cent which developed ... and that this legislation should operate in are genuinely lost cats, 25 per cent are desexed. conjunction with the existing Prevention of Cruelty to Therefore, the issue relating to cats is really about Animals Act 1986 ... excess numbers of cats that do not belong to anybody and are just the result of overbreeding. Legislation in this instance specifically provides for registration. Since there are roughly as many cats in These sorts of figures continue today, and very the community as there are dogs, there seems to me recently the Australian Animal Protection Society of to be no reason why the same treatment should not Keysborough has written to honourable members, apply to cats as to dogs by way of registration. presumably on both sides of the House, indicating Registration will have the benefit of allowing the still very high numbers of cats and dogs that are incentives for responsible owners through a destroyed at the animal welfare shelters. It refers to differential fee system and will also protect the numbers of cats and dogs destroyed in the first identified cats. three months of this year. Those numbers are: January, 800 cats and 145 dogs; February, 633 cats In an important paragraph of its report the Social and 160 dogs; and March, 609 cats and 138 dogs. Development Committee brings together the three COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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aspects - registration, education and desexing - participation scheme will in any way seriously and states: address the stray cat problem. Page 22 of its report to the Minister states: The concept of cat desexing was a controversial issue in this inquiry. The effectiveness of any registration scheme can only be judged if it is universal, as animals tend to cross And it continues to be controversial: municipal boundaries when they stray. A Companion Animals Act which fails to deal with cats is a There was however widespread acknowledgment of contradiction in terms ... the problems created by stray and irresponsibly owned cats and the need to adequately identify owned cats. without a registration/identification scheme there can The committee recognises these problems and be no incentive in the form of differential fees for recommends the introduction of a compulsory desexing of cats. registration scheme for cats ... The society believes legislation should enforce Cat registration in itself will not solve the stray cat compulsory desexing. The Cat Protection Society, problem. However, the committee considers the which is the community organisation best placed to registration and identification of all owned cats would observe the problem, would go even further than the enable the identification of unowned and stray cats and proposed legislation. facilitate their removal. Community education and the promotion of desexing are also very important Another problem is that without registration there is components of any cat control program. no financial source to fund these measures. If after the introduction of the Companion Animals Bill During this debate I have heard some suggestion similar results for cats occur to those currently noted that we should be moving away from the for dogs under the Dog Act we can expect significant compulsory nature of registration to some sort of changes to the number of stray, unwanted and voluntary scheme, and yet at the same time I have unowned ca ts. heard the same honourable members say that we really get into difficulty with legislation only when In its report the society made the following we depart from the recommendations of observa tions: Parliamentary committees that spend a long while trying to come up with a coherent set of 50 per cent of cats will be registered and identified, recommendations. I have some difficulty in compared with 4 in 10000 identified at present. reconciling those two points of view. As 50 per cent of impounded dogs are reclaimed I shall outline some of the benefits of registration of similar results can be expected for cats ... cats as I see them, and by that I mean registration by all cat owners. The differential registration fees will encourage desexing and help reduce overall numbers. The Bill will confer a status on the cat that recognises responsible ownership as an important obligation of Trapping programs for unowned wild cats can be the owner. It will obviously provide protection to conducted as ownership will be clarified. the registered and responsibly owned cat. It also confers protection on the shelters and pounds that In conducting its inquiry the Social Development have the job of dealing with the stray animal Committee had the opportunity of studying, population. Its greatest benefit is probably that it unfortunately not at first hand, registration schemes will require differential fees for desexed animals to in the United States, where the registration of cats in encourage desexing and to reduce the problem of the community has increased in a number of overbreeding. The differential fees are designed to jurisdictions. I refer to a recent publication by the discourage indiscriminate breeding. Humane Society of the United States which states:

A voluntary system will not address the proposed Licensing can help protect lost cats from being aims or outcomes. It will not address the need to unnecessarily euthanised, help keep accurate records of control the numbers of animals. The Cat Protection the numbers of cats living in the jurisdiction, and Society'S response to which the previous speaker provide direct access to cat owners for community referred is critical of any suggestion that a voluntary relations and education programs. COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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The Cat Protection Society supports the Social Earlier today the honourable member for Ripon Development Committee's recommendation that highlighted the differences of opinion on the Bill in microchipping of cats and dogs is an efficient and the community. In commending his contribution, I inexpensive way of identification. I regret that the advise the House that when he was the Minister legislation has not taken up the recommendation. responsible for agriculture in a previous government I had the pleasure of working with him before the Compared with the overall cost of responsibly government changed hands in 1982. owning an animal microchipping would not be an expensive outlay. It is a foolproof means of As the honourable member said, the Bill has created identification and an efficient way of ensuring the a significant amount of anxiety. Campaigns have return of one's lost animal, which is what one been mounted by people with vested interests. should expect for paying a registration fee. Mischievous campaigns have created what I can describe only as hysteria in the community. In the I turn now to enforcement. In determining whose short period I have been a member of this House I responsibility companion animal registration, can report that the Companion Animals Bill has welfare and control should be we must recognise been the second most controversial legislation I have that the problems associated with animal ownership had to address. I have a lO-inch thick file of are a community issue and affect both animal correspondence and information on the Bill. Second owners and non-animal owners. The animal owner to the Mallee National Park debate that was my is entitled to protection for the animal and a service baptism of fire in this House, this Bill would be the for the registration fee. In its report the Social hottest issue I have dealt with in that period. Development Committee states: I wonder whether honourable members will receive The committee recommends that funding for the as much correspondence pertaining to the administration of the schemes should be provided by government's proposal for the part sale of Loy Yang the municipalities through the collection of registration B as they have received on the Companion Animals fees. Without a registration fee, enforcement remains Bill. unfunded and that would be a major criticism by local government. A great deal of concern has been expressed by animal owners and points of view have been put to In summary, if we give up on effective control of the the coalition by proponents of the legislation. It has cat population we will be left, after all the inquiries, been a topic of discussion at many a dinner table. I paperwork, debate, misunderstandings and angst in learned very quickly not to mention the Bill when I the community, with nothing more than a Dog Act was attending public functions because animal with dangerous dog provisions. A voluntary owners directed venom at me as the local member. I identification one-off payment does nothing to suggested that the venom should properly be encourage desexing and therefore does not address directed at the Minister for Food and Agriculture the overbreeding problem. and I hope it is, given that this is his Bill.

A one-off payment as proposed by the opposition The coalition's agriculture committee has spent should apply only to desexed animals and an annual many hours examining the legisla tion and fee should be paid for any animal tha t the owner consulting with a wide range of interest groups. Our does not feel disposed to have desexed. Without consultation has included briefings with the Bureau enforcement the legislation will be totally ineffective of Animal Welfare; PETCARE; the Royal Society for in either promoting animal welfare or in addressing the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals; the Cat the nuisance of stray animals. Protection Society; the Victorian Canine Association; the Municipal Association of Victoria and a number Mr BILDSTIEN (Mildura) - The House now has of individual councils; the Australian Veterinary before it a 51-page Bill. When the Minister for Food Association; the Australian and New Zealand and Agriculture first became a Minister of the Federation of Animal Societies; a group calling itself Crown he was determined to make a mark for Cerberus; the Victorian National Parks Association; himself, but I am not sure whether this Bill will the Victorian Horse Council; the Equestrian make the sort of mark in our history books that he Federation of Australia; and the Australian had intended. The Bill has certainly created a lot of Warmblood Horse Association. By any assessment, tension in the community. the coalition can be judged to have had an COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

564 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 7 April 1992 exhaustive consultation process before it reached its precisely what the position should be in respect of position on the Minister's proposals. horses. Let us consider the recommendations of the Social Development Committee in this regard. Its At the outset let me say the coalition recognises that report states: there is a problem with stray cats and dogs. 'This problem was outlined in the findings of the Social That companion animals legislation be developed to Development Committee report of several years ago. cover the keeping of dogs, cats and horses and the At a briefing we had in February the Bureau of regulation of companion animal businesses; such Animal Welfare informed us that 75 per cent of all legislation to involve two separate Acts: a 'Companion Victorians own companion animals of some sort. Animals Act' and a 'Horse Act'. The honourable member for Ripon commented on the estimated number of cats in Victoria. The The provisions and controls in the Bill that relate to department informed us that there are an estimated cats and dogs clearly are not applicable to horses. 2SO 000 unwanted cats in Victoria. That is a quarter The Victorian Horse Council reacted strongly of a million cats - almost as many as people against the proposal and has supported the unemployed in Victoria. exclusion of horses and the need for separate legisla tion. The animal shelters tell us they take more than 80000 stray cats and dogs annually and that 50 000 Based on its discussions with the council and in are destroyed. Every year 20 000 dogs and 36 000 recognition of the fact that the council represents the cats are put down because owners cannot be Equestrian Federation of Australia, the Pony Club identified and nobody claims the animals. Association, the Victoria Racing Club, the Bloodhorse Breeders Association, the Standard The Cat Protection Society tells us that only 4 in Breeders Association and the Stockhorse 10000 cats carry any identification and only 6 in Association, the coalition early made a decision that every 10 000 cats are actually reclaimed. With that horses should be exempt from the legislation. 'This sort of information before us we would be foolhardy decision was widely applauded and welcomed by to throw the legislation out, despite the many the horse fraternity and, subsequently, by the drafting problems and concerns we have had. The Minister for Food and Agriculture. Around Mildura Bill has a background of support for the need to he is known as the "Minister for FA". further improve animal welfare and encourage responsible companion animal ownership with the I wish to read into Hansard part of a letter to the provision of some necessary controls. Deputy Leader of the National Party and the shadow Minister for agriculture from In first viewing the legislation the coalition went Mr N. G. Semple, the President of the Victorian back to the Social Development Committee report, Horse Council, which believes that an essential part which recommended a number of things. It stated of any horse Act should be the establishment of a that the legislation should promote the responsible central register of all horses and which is prepared ownership of companion animals; promote and to operate such a register. The letter states: protect the welfare of companion animals; reduce overbreeding; reduce the nuisance caused by I am pleased to be able to offer the full support and companion animals and the destruction of flora and active assistance of the horse industry via the Victorian fauna; regulate companion animal businesses; and Horse Council in achieving this aim. regulate the boarding and agistment of horses. The report, to which the previous speaker referred, The Companion Animals Bill was written for cats and defined a companion animal as being a dog or a cat dogs, horses have been added for convenience. The and suggested that separate legislation should be horse industry through racing and other activities is a created for horses, so we were surprised that the Bill major contributor to government revenue and a huge departed Significantly from the report to include employer. We should not have to put up with horses. The Minister will be well aware of the anger legislation which will create more problems than it this generated among horse owners, having solves. witnessed the recent rally on the steps of Parliament House. A separate horse Act can deal with, among other things, the outdated Livery and Agistment Act and the We spoke at length with the Victorian Horse Council standards at riding schools. The only way to seriously and other representatives of the industry about tackle the weUare problem is through a central register. COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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Therefore, through the process of discussion and If the government intends imposing obligations on consultation with the Victorian Horse Council the municipalities, quite clearly the enforcement of the coalition has been able to achieve an objective that provisions of the Bill must be achievable. The the government itself should have been able to reach councils simply are not convinced by the in the long lead-up time involved in preparing the government or by the welfare organisations that this Bill. will be the case.

Now that I have dealt with horses, I will deal with Having outlined the provisions that the coalition the remainder of the Bill. The opposition has several believes should be dealt with by the Minister in concerns, but we acknowledge that attempting to amendments to the Bill, I want to dwell on some of amend the Bill would be difficult in the extreme. It the hysteria whipped up in the community. I was has been suggested that the Minister take on board driving along in my motor vehicle last week and the proposals enunciated by the shadow Minister for was staggered to hear the president of the RSPCA, agriculture and other opposition members, draw up Dr Hugh Wirth, giving the shadow Minister for a second Bill and withdraw this Bill. The second Bill agriculture a real bagging. The suggestion was that should take account of the measures I am about to Dr Wirth had telephoned the shadow Minister's outline. office and been given a blunt and rude reply. He subsequently telephoned the honourable member's The Companion Animals Bill should apply only to electorate office, and no-one at the office was aware cats and dogs. The opposition generally supports the of the Bill. provisions relating to dangerous animals, with the proviso that some refinement is needed. The Bill Dr Wirth and other officers of the RSPCA have been includes some quite impractical provisions such as dealing on a regular basis not only with the those in clause 22, and it appears from the honourable member for Lowan - the shadow government amendments that the Minister has Minister for agriculture - but with all members of acknowledged this fact. the opposition's agriculture committee, and in particular with the opposition member representing The establishment of the Animal Welfare Fund Ballarat Province in another place, Administration Board and the Animal Welfare Fund Mr Dick de Fegely. is not supported by the coalition, and the reasons have already been articulated. It is not necessary at all times for negotiations to occur directly between the shadow Minister and the The opposition agrees, in principle, to Part 4, where interest group involved. I was most concerned at the the requirements for the registration and conduct of inference of Dr Wirth that the honourable member companion animal businesses are outlined, but some for Lowan had not made himself available, because changes are needed to the definition of companion we have had long discussions with all groups and, animal businesses. indeed, at a meeting in February it was suggested that the RSPCA and the Municipal Association of Part 5 relates to boarding and agistment of Victoria meet to iron out some of the differences companion animals and is supported. The provision they had with the Bill. for cats to be registered, as I have already stated, is not supported. The opposition believes the cat Anyone who telephones my electorate office and owner should have the voluntary right to identify wants to speak to my electorate officer now, while I his or her animal using an approved system such as am here in Melbourne, about the Companion the microchip or identification at a central registry Animals Bill, would find that she is not really in a using a collar and tag. That would be a low-cost good position to debate the matter either, so it is alternative. most unfair of the RSPCA to attack the shadow Minister in that regard. The Bill must include provisions to enable councils to deal with stray cat problems in their individual The other point to be made is that we are all very areas. Of all correspondence honourable members busy people, and Dr Wirth should recognise that the have received the most vocal opposition has come honourable member for Lowan has genuinely from the municipalities and, in particular, the attempted to deal with all sides of the debate. I Municipal Association of Victoria. should like to set the record straight in Hansard by stating that the honourable member for Lowan telephoned the RSPCA and that a message had not COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

566 ASSEMBLY Tuesday. 7 April 1992 been passed on to Or Wirth. He has, in fact, now address the problems of stray and nuisance animals written to apologise to the honourable member for in the community or to stop impulse buying in retail Lowan, and that point should be noted. pet outlets. Mr Jensen, the field officer for the association, said the Bill should not proceed in its The other thing Or Wirth should do is conduct a current form. plebiscite of his members because he is telling us that the RSPCA wants the Bill dead-set; but as I I have received correspondence from people who move around the community along with members support the legislation - mostly welfare of our agriculture committee, RSPCA members do organisations. I support the comments made by the not share the same view as Or Wirth. honourable member for Ripon who said a number of people in the community do not understand the Some of the members with whom I have spoken are problems with stray cats and dogs - although there very angry about the Bill and disappointed with the are an estimated 250 000 stray cats in Victoria. I approach of the RSPCA. I say that without in any received a letter from a police officer from Mildura way reflecting on the good work that the RSPCA, as who highlights the problems rather well. He says: a welfare organisation, has done over many years and, I am sure, will continue to do in our Some years ago when I was on night shift patrol I saw community. However, there must be recognition hundreds of wild cats in the central business district of that the view of Or Wirth is not necessarily the view Mildura and large numbers of wandering domestic cats of many of his members. in residential areas for which there are no controls. I have an aviary on the side of my house and I am As I said earlier, the correspondence file I have continually plagued by marauding feral cats. Look developed on the Bill is about 8 or 10 inches thick, what's happening to the Mallee fowl due to foxes and and letters have come not only from the peak animal cats. I doubt if they will survive into the next century welfare organisations throughout this State but also outside sanctuaries. from individuals, councils, political parties, canine associations and cat protection societies, as well as Municipalities are at a loss to understand how they from Uncle Ben's. I will briefly mention some of the will implement the legislation. A report of 12 March correspondence I have received. to the Shire of Mildura by the Shire Secretary, Mr David McMillan, refers to the animal welfare fund The Shire of Karkarooc wrote to me objecting to the and the proposal of a 5 per cent levy to be raised plan to register cats and introduce a new fee from municipalities. In part it states: structure for companion animals. The shire secretary, Mr Phillip Nelson, says: It would be foolhardy in the current financial climate for anyone to give the State government any more The proposed Bill is complex and raises a number of money to play with. issues that make it extremely difficult for rural municipalities like the Shire of Karkarooc to implement We on this side of the House say: ''Hear, hear!" We such a Bill effectively. do not believe the creation of a new board and a new fund is appropriate. We believe more should be Once again the message is being hammered home: done to educate the community. The government how will we effectively implement the objectives we should be prepared to accept the offers that have are trying to impose on the community? The letter been made to it. In one briefing, the PETCARE continues: Information and Advisory Service said it had $25 000 that it was prepared to make available to the Given our location, adjacent to national parks, further Minister to operate a program similar to those that problems arise and responsibility for the control of operate interstate whereby the department could go stray dogs and cats and other predators in the national into schools to begin the process of education from a parks needs to be addressed by the Deparbnent of young age. PETCARE was willing to share a Conservation and Environment. platform with the Minister but he was not prepared to acknowledge its contribution. The Bill in its present state is therefore inappropriate. Mr Cooper - That is a disgrace! In a briefing with the Victorian Canine Association, which has 26 000 members Statewide, we were told that it considered the Bill would do nothing to COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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Mr BILDSTIEN - It is a disgrace. I hope the Mr NORRIS - He is a brave and courageous Minister is prepared to mend his ways in the future. Minister. The Bill has generated a great deal of The shire secretary continues: sound and fury, some of it is significant but much of it is little more than hot air. All honourable members My point in relation to cat registration is not that I think have been inundated, as previous speakers have cat registration is a bad thing. It's a good thing, but I said, by the intensity of lobbying by all sorts of wonder who is going to make it work and who will groups and individuals - both written and verbal. police it. Comments were made at the last meeting in relation to the number of cats roaming at night. If I received a telephone call from one constituent who council is to comply with the letter of the law, it will threatened to kill herself if we dared to suggest that require additional by-law officers. she do certain things to her cat. Another woman said that her tomcat had been neutered and I said, '1 I have additional concern over the introduction of suppose he now spends the evenings by the fire". codes of practices. For example, the code for keeping of ''No,'' she said, ''he still goes out but he acts as a animals in pounds is (as I have said on many occasions) consultant!" one which could force the council into going out of pounds entirely. Adhering to the letter of the law Possibly one of the most vigorous lobby groups is would require council to air-condition the pound, the Permanent Animal Welfare Study Group weigh every cat and dog that came into the place so (PAWS). The Minister released a press statement in that they could be fed in accordance with the which he responded to PAWS and some of the regulations laid down, plus give them a shampoo and remarks made by the Minister about cat curfews are blow wave daily. worth repeating. I know it is difficult to keep a cat inside but wildlife is at risk from feral cats. I do not That is the attitude of the Shire of Mildura about the believe there is a lot of argument about that part of codes of practice. I have not heard anything from the the legislation. No-one denies it is difficult keeping Minister about the expense that municipalities must cats indoors at certain times but if a pet owner lives incur. In a letter to the opposition dated 13 March in a sensitive area, particularly in the Dandenongs, I the Municipal Association of Victoria estimated that believe it is his or her responsibility to do so. If one to implement cat registrations alone would cost a wants to keep cats in those environmentally minimum of $11.5 million. That figure was based on sensitive areas and the council desires to implement the 210 councils throughout the State employing one that part of the legislation, one must put up with it. additional officer at a cost of $30 000, plus overheads. Originally the Bill was designed to create controls The opposition recognises the problem, which has over fish, birds and horses, but the amended Bill will been looked at comprehensively by the Social apply only to cats and dogs. The legislation will Development Committee. The committee made introduce cat registration fees as set by recommendations but the legislation substantially municipalities; normally that fee will be $20. differs from the recommendations made by the committee. I congratulate the honourable member for Rodney on his contribution. He said that a maximum of We are concerned about a number of provisions and about 60 per cent of dogs were registered in shires those have been outlined to the Minister. We urge and municipalities. It does not say much for dog him to take those on board while the Bill is between owners that 40 per cent of dogs remain unregistered! this place and another place. He should withdraw Owning a pet requires a commitment from an the Bill and bring in a clean Bill which incorporates individual; he or she owns a living creature. Puppies our proposals, and he will then get bipartisan grow up to be dogs, and sometimes become a pain support in another place for legislation to deal with in the neck, but responsibility remains. A $20 a major problem confronting Victoria. registration fee is extremely reasonable.

Mr NORRIS (Dandenong) - I shall make a brief One need only visit a supermarket to experience the contribution to this important Bill. I congratulate the scenario of a dog tied up by a rope in a car parked Minister on introducing the Bill. It is certainly a nearby with its owner wandering down the pet food brave Bill. aisle in the supermarket - always the largest section - and coming out loaded down with tins of Dr Napthine - It is courageous! pet food. Perhaps he may have bought a couple of packets of biscuits for the kids! Yet, despite the cost COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

568 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 7 April 1992 of keeping and feeding the animal, he is the owner I return to my original point about an important of an unregistered dog. aspect of the legislation, clause 15. Some years ago during the debate on the motion for the adjournment The legislation will enable municipalities to impose of the sitting I asked that a registry of dog bites be curfews on cats if wildlife is endangered, but it will established. At the time the Royal Children's not deal with birds, fishes or horses. No secret Hospital had commented that increasingly its legislation will be introduced. No doubt the fear of doctors were attending to children that had been God has been spread by some lobby groups that a bitten about the face by dogs. I doubt that any State secret agenda exists or that special legislation will be has a registry of dog bites, as is the case in some introduced as a consequence of this Bill. People in other countries. their homes should not be concerned by the gossip spread by lobby groups. Many elderly citizens When ten years of age one of my children was whose pets mean so much to them have been severely bitten about the face by a neighbour's dog frightened about the supposed effects of the Bill. and required rather extensive plastic surgery. My wife and I turned the world upside down in our I congratulate the Minister for removing horses from insistence that the dog be destroyed. That German the ambit of the legislation and making shepherd dog had been unprovoked but had arrangements with the very responsible and august severely damaged my daughter's face. As it Victorian horse council representing horse owners. happens, most children who are severely bitten by Like many honourable members, particularly those dogs suffer injuries to their faces. We had much from rural electorates and those who represent difficulty in having the owners admit responsibility. electorates on the outskirts of Melbourne, I have Eventually they did so and my daughter was been saddened to see the many dozens of horses tha t compensated; fortunately, the dog owners had are no longer loved or cared for; I see them stuck in appropriate insurance. The next problem was miserable paddocks, and those horses always look having something done about the dog. At the time, forlorn and sad. I appreciate the original intention of council officers visited the owners but nothing could the Minister to do something about that problem. be done under the then existing by-laws. We maintained the pressure and eventually the Many honourable members have experienced a neighbours moved to the country, taking the dog young family member or another young person with them. Later we heard that the dog had attacked saying, '1 must have a horse, my life depends on it". another child. But unfortunately, those good intentions are not always maintained. The horses become a chore. My experience is an example of the frustration that Something must be done to address the problem of many suffer, and I hope the legislation will cover the thousands of neglected horses throughout such matters. I am unsure whether this Bill is the Victoria. appropriate vehicle for adopting the suggestion that hospitals act as a registry of dog bites. Bites treated Cats are difficult creatures to deal with. This brave at a hospital are normally severe; someone with a legislation endeavours to address sensibly the minor bite - perhaps needing several stitches in a problems that cats impose upon the community. hand - will usually attend the local doctor and no Many of the statistics referred to by the honourable record is made. member for Ripon were staggering and cannot be refuted. This legislation endeavours to deal with the At the time of my suggestion that a registry be fact that 36 000 cats are destroyed each year in established, much publicity was focused on the pit Melbourne alone. No doubt many hundreds of cats bull-terrier and German shepherd breeds. Such a continue to wander through the laneways of all registry would provide a control about the breed of electorates, scavenging and becoming sick - with dogs likely to be provoked to attack, particularly many loitering at the rear of cafes in Lonsdale Street, young children whose faces are often at the same Dandenong! Responsible cat ownership must be level as the dogs, often I suppose the dogs being enforced. A registration fee of $20 a year is excited by children running around with flailing reasonable. Responsible owners love their cats; they arms, and so on. have them neutered and they look after them properly. Cat registration is a responsible approach The Minister might consider such a provision. That and will carry a reasonable fee. worthwhile suggestion from the Royal Children"s Hospital should be examined. The registry would COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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pinpoint the number who are bitten and by what possible to take dogs to a school for any reason, breed. including educational reasons.

The House has heard a good debate on this Bill. I am The impact of the Bill has not been thought through; sure that as a result, the legislation will benefit the Bill is ill considered. The Bill has been proposed everyone who loves and respects animals and all by a group of people with a particular point of view responsible animal owners. I congratulate the who have not been prepared to expose themselves to Minister on the Bill. the art of consultation. When one has a view or opinion it is important that it be debated through Mr J. F. McGRATH (Warmambool) - The consultation with a wide range of people in the Companion Animals Bill is the result of an inquiry community, not just with those people who agree by the Social Development Committee of with one's view. It is the mark of having a real feel Parliament. In its 1991 report the committee pointed for and commitment to a subject that a person will to many problems that existed in relation to take from his or her adversaries points they consider companion animals in Victoria. What is in issue is will complement what is being debated. This Bill has how we should deal with companion animals, not been subjected to that sort of approach and, particularly stray and unwanted animals. therefore, we end up with these sorts of anomalies.

The Bill is flawed in that it has not been driven by a Warmambool is on the ocean. A clause in the Bill practical approach to the implementation of control states that no-one who lives within 500 metres of the mechanisms for companion animals. One of the ocean can keep a companion animal. major problems with the Bill is that it imposes an unacceptable and unreasonable burden on local Mr Cooper - Does it say the sea or the ocean? government by forcing municipalities to take responsibility for the adequate identification, Mr J. F. McGRATH - It actually talks about a recording and control of companion animals, as beach. So, under the Bill, anyone who lives within defined in the Bill. 500 metres of Warmambool beach cannot keep a companion animal. I have friends who live fairly I have several concerns about the Bill. In clause 3, close to the beach at Warmambool and they had definitions, "authorised officer" is defined as some fairly curt words to say about that proviSion, meaning any person appointed by the which I will not repeat on the Parliamentary record. director-general or a council. That means that anyone can be an authorised officer. I question The definitions clause defines an authorised officer whether we should give that sort of authority to an as "any person". Under this Bill powers are vested in unspecified person or group of persons. The people who are not specified and who do not definition should be more specific. necessarily hold a special municipal office. An authorised officer could be a parking attendant, a Clause 16 provides that councils must keep a rate collector or a retired schoolteacher who happens register of all registered animals. We need to to walk around town for a bit of exercise and whom consider where councils will obtain the resources the council sees fit to appoint as an authorised necessary to comply with the Bill. The register must officer. I suggest that it is not responsible for be available during office hours and, although the Parliament to vest power in people in that way. Bill provides that a fee may be charged by councils for that service, it will involve staff of councils in the The Bill is really in three parts: a part dealing with preparation and updating of registers. Councils have dogs, a part dealing with cats, and a part dealing indicated concern about that matter. with other companion animals as defined in the Bill. A part of the Bill dealing with horses, which was a Clause 22 deals with dogs being found in particular nonsense, has been removed. At present places, including shopping areas, railway stations, municipalities are dealing in a practical way with beaches and schools. The proponents of the Bill have issues concerning dogs and horses, but when we not examined the situation in a practical way. The attempt to impose mandatory requirements in sorts of educational programs that should be relation to cats the mind boggles. How on earth undertaken to obviate the need for this legislation in could any person appointed as an authorised officer the next decade and beyond should obviously take comply with the requirements of the Bill? place in schools. Yet under this Bill it will not be COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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The Bill deals with the restraint of greyhounds and implants. Councils are expressing concern at the cost with guard dogs. The honourable member for of administering the Bill. They are also concerned Dandenong spoke about dangerous dogs, which are about the membership of the board, the balance of a major problem. People have a commitment to their power on the board, and the need for balanced animals. I can recall that at three years of age a small decision-making. They will be interested to hear the nephew of mine was attacked by the family German Minister's response. shepherd and needed several stitches to his forehead and in the corner of his eye. The Bill deals with other issues. I return to the definition of an authorised officer. An authorised It was a matter of sheer luck that the dog did not bite officer confronted with the owner or person in the three-year-old a little lower. If it had he would charge of the companion animal could be have lost his eye. The husband in that family could obstructionist. I put it to the House that if the officer not be convinced to put the dog down. It was the is not the correct person there is a recipe for disaster first time that the dog had bitten anybody. If with that officer taking leave of the power vested in commonsense had prevailed the dog would have him or her. That would not be in the best interests of been put down. the community generally.

People who have to make a decision about their own A lot of the correspondence through my office has pets will not always make a commonsense decision. been about horses, which are mentioned in the Bill. I When dealing with dangerous animals, dogs in was interested to read the comments of a member of particular, one must consider what should be done the well-known Roycroft family, Mrs Lyn Roycroft, to protect the community. Over the past few years who is a member the Equestrian Federation of there have been a number of sad and horrific Australia. In the local newspaper in March this year experiences where small children and babies have Mrs Roycroft is reported to have said that she been attacked by a variety of savage dogs. Should believed the Bill could mean witch-hunts taking those dogs be allowed to prowl the streets without a place with council officers entering properties and lead or while unmuzzled? One must question taking or destroying animals without the owner's community safety. In one breed of dog, the jaws permission. Although the Bill will stamp out some lock, so if the dog bites a victim, its jaws lock and cases of cruelty, Mrs Roycroft saw it as an invasion cannot be removed. If that dog gets hold of a small of rights and privacy. She went on to criticise the child it can do a lot of damage. Like horses, dogs clause of the Bill that would mean owners paying should be dealt with in a separate Bill. increased registration fees of between $70 and $170 if animals were not desexed. When dealing with cats as a menace, whether they be companion animals, strays or feral cats, the issue Many dog owners expressed such concerns, but it is not as simple as it is with dogs or horses. was pointed out that working dogs were exempt in the Bill. Some breeders of working sheep dogs in my Clause 33 of the Bill states: electorate expressed concern when they first heard of the proposed legislation. It is important to reflect The owner or any other person in charge of a dog must on what Mrs Roycroft said. The Roycrofts are not allow that dog to chase a vehicle. recognised as excellent horse people and people who have conducted themselves in an orderly and Who will police that provision? As a member who responsible manner. Her comments were valid for represents a rural electorate, I know that a farmer today's debate. may be moving a herd of cows and the dog may chase a vehicle and return to the task at hand. How The honourable member for Rodney spoke about the will that be controlled? It is a nonsense! deputation from PETCARE and its involvement. Councils through the Municipal Association of Over time a number of issues of concern have been Victoria have expressed concern about their raised in this place. The Companion Animals Bill has responsibility to administer the Bill. They believe the rated highly with the large volume of letters that Bill has not been put together in a constructive way. have been written. We have not received half pages Councils in my electorate have asked me to put to but reams of material from the animal welfare the House that the Bill be withdrawn and redrafted groups and individual members of those groups. to take account of the practical problems the Bill has Concern is being expressed in my electorate about created. the cost of de-sexing animals and the cost of COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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They say that after talking to those responsible, goldfish to the pet budgie, or even, as was particularly the dog catchers as they are commonly mentioned today, to tortoises. I remind honourable known, the Bill is impractical, particularly in the members that the Bill refers only to cats and dogs. City of Warrnambool. Mr Cooper - You are wrong! I would not venture to guess how many cats there are in the City of Warmambool, but certainly it Mrs GARBUTI -It is proposed to withdraw seems impracticable to impose a system of horses from coverage of the Bill. It is acknowledged mandatory registration. that separate issues arise in keeping horses and therefore separate legislation should be prepared to I suggest that the Companion Animals Bill should be apply to the ownership of horses. taken back to the drawing board. The government should demonstrate some commonsense about the I refer to the compulsory registration of cats. An difficulties in the Bill, as it did in respect of the issue that has arisen is what is described as a curfew previous proposal to include horses. The Bill should for cats. It should be made clear that the Bill does not be dealt with under a tripartite arrangement by make the imposition of a curfew compulsory; it being either withdrawn or considered while it is allows councils to impose a curfew if they choose to between Houses. Members of all parties should be do so, after consultation with the community. given the opportunity of putting their thoughts on the proposed legislation while taking into account Mr Cooper -It can be imposed! and tempering the valuable recommendations of the Social Development Committee. Mrs GARBUTI -It can be, but it is not!

As I said, the Bill seeks to address a serious problem The Bill addresses the considerable problem in the community. However, it is flawed because of presented by the large number of stray cats in this bad drafting and ill-considered clauses. The practical State. The figures have been well established and approach is to withdraw the Bill and redraft it. many speakers have quoted them during the debate. Alternatively, it should be reconsidered while it is In Victoria there are 1 million cats, including 200 000 between Houses. to 300 000 stray cats. They are not lost cale;; they are cats that have not been owned and live by their wits Mrs GARBUTI (Greensborough) - I am pleased in the wild, either in cities or in native bushland. It is to support the Companion Animals Bill and I estimated that animal shelters throughout Victoria congratulate the Minister for Food and Agriculture euthanise 36 000 stray cats per annum. on introducing it. Last week I visited the Cat Protection Society of As most speakers have said, the Bill has aroused Victoria that has been operating for the past 45 years much emotion and created a furore in the in Greensborough. The figures of the SOCiety reflect community. Probably several reasons underlie the the dimension of the Statewide figures. Its members responses to the Bill. deal with 12000 cats per annum and approximately 10 000 of those are euthanised. The animal shelters The first reason for the interest in the Bill reflects the face a cost estimated at $1.5 million a year for importance of companion and other animals in our dealing with the problem of stray animals. SOCiety. Children and older people in particular regard pets as important. Most people have or have Some dispute over the numbers appears to exist. had pets and therefore almost everyone has an Some people are saying that the figures are not opinion on the Bill. accurate. Mr David Chandler of the Permanent Animal Welfare Study group (PAWS) is quoted in The second reason for interest in the Bill is less the Age of 4 April as saying that: fortunate. Much misinformation has been deliberately circulated around the community and ... half the cats put down each year are aged or infirm scare tactics have been used to try to spread the cats brought to the centres by loving owners ... misinformation about. Members of the Cat Protection Society certainly I shall seek to lay to rest a few of the issues raised in deny that. They say that only 1 per cent of the cats the discussion on the Bill. The first is that the Bill they euthanise each year are old or ill and brought in will apply to a range of pets, from the family by loving owners. The others are strays. COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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The other figure that they have given me is that only Of the 6000 odd animals, birds and reptiles brought 6 in 10 000 of the cats they euthanise are owned. into our Forestville headquarters, a quarter to a third Most of the cats are not owned, and they are have been injured by cats. The problem ... is that once a certainly not identified. The people at the Cat cat's teeth have pierced the skin of an animal it's more Protection Society insist that they can verify the than likely that it will die of shock or bacterial infection. figures. They have a staff of 20 people who keep careful records. The article also states that a study done by Dr David Paton of Adelaide shows that a cat takes up to 28 The problem is not overstated; it is probably items of prey each year. If that is so, the annual toll understated because both individuals and groups in Victoria could be between 25 million and collect ill or stray cats that are obviously not owned 50 million. That includes introduced pests such as and take them to private veterinarians. Those cats mice, rats and rabbits, but a large portion is native are not included in the 36 000 taken into animal wildlife. shelters. It is well established that feral cats pose a serious The figures demonstrate that the problem is one of threat to wildlife across Victoria and Australia. The some significance. Apart from the fact that cats that Cat Protection Society quotes figures showing cats are not owned live a miserable or wretched life, they kill and eat 100 different species of Australian birds, cause other problems. For instance, they can be a 50 species of Australian native mammals, 50 species nuisance, both in terms of noise and smell. of Australian native reptiles and 3 species of frogs. Honourable members will all have heard noisy cats The threats to the eastern barred bandicoot at fighting in vacant areas or on factory sites around Hamilton and the lyrebirds at Sherbrooke are well towns. Stray cats pose a threat to owned cats who known. It cannot be overstated that the problem fight with them and catch diseases. Stray cats are a must be tackled. health risk not only for owned cats but also for people. One of the causes of the high number of stray cats is overbreeding. There are far too many cats for the The running of animal shelters imposes an number of people who want them. Another cause is emotional cost as well as a financial cost. People who the poor status of cats; if they are no longer wanted work in animal shelters have to deal with the they are simply dumped. Cats are regarded as euthanising of thousands of cats each year, which is disposable. In the Age of 4 April the General an emotional drain on them. Manager of the Lost Dogs Home in North Melbourne, Dr Graeme Smith, states: Stray cats have an effect on our wildlife both in towns and in native bushland areas. I shall refer to People often have an attitude that cats and dogs are some of these issues because they have been raised disposable. They get some kittens at Christmas, lose in the debate. The effect of stray cats on the wildlife them or dump them and get some more the next of our bushland is not negligible. Scientific evidence Christmas. If we had this legislation, people might in both Victoria and Australia shows that owned consider the responsibility of pet ownership more cats are having a devastating effect on our wildlife. I closely. refer to the Australian Magazine of 28-29 March in which the following remarks of Dr Alan Newsome That says it all. The Cat Protection Society has of the CSIRO Division of Wildlife and Ecology spoken to me about the legal problems it faces in its appear: everyday dealings with the problem. Under common law a cat is a chattel and because of that "Nothing good can be said of them," he says, pointing people who trap or impound them must be careful out that there is a very fine line between feral and to ensure that they are not dealing with someone domestic cats. He maintains that while the impact of else's property. The lack of legal status of cats means feral cats on mainland Australia has not been that the problem cannot be effectively addressed. measured, they have caused a number of species to become extinct on offshore islands. Members of the opposition have argued that education is the only thing needed and that simply Mikla Lewis, Coordinator of the New South Wales promoting responsible ownership throughout the Wildlife and Rescue Service, is quoted as stating: community will reduce the number of cats that are dumped. Education is certainly necessary, and I COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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urge the Minister to pursue that. However, it is not the cat. If people are not paying $500 a year to keep enough. their cats, they are not caring for them properly and are probably letting them out to chase the birds and In its submission the Cat Protection Society states: live off the land. The registration fee is not a major imposition; it is only a minor increase in the existing Legislation is required to give the educational program costs of keeping cats responsibly. a sense of authority and meaning. Compulsory registration and identification of cats The society refers to the experience with the eastern will discourage impulse buying. A person walking barred bandicoot at Hamilton where an education around a market and passing by a pet shop will not campaign was put in place with particular emphasis buy on impulse a kitten that looks pretty and cute on cats because they were the major predators of the and will consider the purchase more carefully if the bandicoot. The society states that although people cat has to be registered and identified. were aware of the education campaign, the degree of responsibility of pet ownership increased only There has been a lot of discussion about the cost of marginally, and it tailed off rapidly when the identification. A collar and tag may cost around $5, campaign ceased. but the alternative to that is a microchip. The Cat Protection Society has estimated that a microchip The Bill provides for compulsory registration and can be implanted for $10 or $12 if the chips are identification of cats and encourages desexing by a bought in bulk and if vets are hired on hourly rates differential in registration fees. The opposition has by local organisations and so on. A microchip is a proposed that registration be voluntary, but that has permanent identification and has no side effects. An been roundly condemned by animal shelters and anaesthetic is not required and a cat is identified their representatives. The Age of 31 March states: permanently with no further cost. When compared with the total cost of keeping an animal responsibly, The RSPCA totally disassociates itself from the $10 or $12 is not a big imposition. proposals of the opposition. Concerns have been expressed about the potential Or Wirth said the opposition's rejection of compulsory decrease in the pet food business. A spokesman for registration was farcical. '1£ there is no compulsory Uncle Ben's, Mc Doug Hislop, has spoken about a registration, the councils will not have the money to decrease in the number of cats leading to a decrease enforce the provisions of the Bill". in the amount of pet food purchased.

The Cat Protection Society has also commented on It is difficult to believe some people would put that whether registration should be voluntary. Its argument. The number of stray cats should be submission states: reduced, but they are not being fed Pal or Whiskas. No-one is buying food for the 200 000 or 300 000 Whilst registration in itself will not solve the stray cat stray cats. They are living on native animals or problem it is a powerful tool. In order to address the vermin or are scavenging scraps from humans or stray cat problem cat ownership must be clarified. owned animals. They are not the sleek, healthy cats Without registration and identification this is legally that are being fed pet food. If the number of cats is not possible. reduced it will be from the stray cat population and that will not lead to a decrease in the amount of pet I shall refer to the cost the Bill may impose on pet food sold. owners. Much has been made about that point, and some people have claimed that cats will become I am concerned about the powers granted to luxury items for the rich. That is a totally authorised officers in this legislation. I am pleased unbelievable argument. I have kept a cat for the past that the Minister for Food and Agriculture has 18 years and I estimate that it costs approximately circulated proposed amendments that will have the $10 a week to feed a cat. One must also consider the effect of ensuring that authorised officers must have cost of occasional health care, so the cost of caring a reasonable belief before entering a property. for a cat for a year is apprOximately $500. I would like to lay to rest the rumour circulating in The average cost of registering a dog in Victoria is the community that authorised officers have the $10, so $10 or $20 to register a cat is not a significant power to enter a person's house uninvited. burden compared with the existing cost of caring for COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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Authorised officers may only enter property outside than I do, because that is exactly what he should be the boundaries of a person's house. doing.

I am concerned also about dangerous dogs. A dog In my view the Bill will introduce draconian, that has caused serious injury to a person should unnecessary, vague and uncertain laws to deal with have no further opporhmity of attacking humans. the control of some animals that cause problems to The Shire of Diamond Valley in commenting on the some sections of the community. That is where it has Bill said that council officers consider that a dog that gone off the rails. I do not believe the legislation causes serious bodily harm to a person should be should be passed in its present form. Parliament surrendered by the owner and destroyed. I urge the should spend more time examining alternative ways Minister to consider implementing such a provision of achieving worthwhile objectives rather than concerning dogs that cause serious injury to humans. introducing draconian laws.

Some vested interests have deliberately circulated The government has not done enough to encourage misleading statements about the Bill, but the the voluntary identification of cats. It should do that legislation is a serious attempt to address the first. In the past 30 or 40 years Parliaments problem of stray cats. throughout Australia have passed 50 000 new laws which have taken away people's rights, which Mr LIEBERMAN (Benambra) - The Bill is control them, which inhibit them, which attempt to unacceptable in its current form. The Minister for direct them and which impose extra costs and Food and Agriculture should know that there is little burdens on them. Surely all members of Parliament support for the legislation in country Victoria. The would agree that it is about time they asked whether best test as a local member of Parliament is not so the introduction of these new laws should be much what you think, although you are obliged to allowed. There should be much more scrutiny and apply your mind to the issue, but what your effort put into innovative ways of achieving constituents think. I say to the Minister that of the objectives rather than simply introducing laws that hundreds of constituents who have been in touch by impose on people obligations which are often letter or telephone with me or my staff, only two or draconian, vague and uncertain and which give three believe the Bill is well constructed. powers where they are not necessary.

An overwhelming number of people are opposed to It is interesting to hear the arguments put forward the inclusion of horses in the provisions of the Bill. I by government members on why the legislation is appreciate that the Minister has now announced that necessary. They speak of legal difficulties people he will withdraw the horse provisions from the Bill may experience in attending to a stray cat; of how as a result of the strong representations put by the they are exposed to possible legal action. I concede coalition shadow Minister, the honourable member that that is the case because I am trained in the law, for Lowan, and other members of the community. but the legislation proposes draconian measures to give cats a legal status. I challenge honourable I have been in Parliament for 16 years representing members to indicate the number of actions that have the electorate of Benambra and I can honestly tell the been instituted in Australia against welfare House that I cannot recall a request to me from any organisations dealing with stray cats. How many part of my electorate to seek changes to the law or people have been taken to court? How many people the introduction of new laws dealing with cats. I have been sued for damages because they have no doubt that the Minister has had some intervened when a stray cat was found on the side of requests and discussions with people from various the road and it was treated and put down? I suggest parts of Victoria. Obviously the honourable member that there have been very few such cases in the civil for Greensborough has had concerns raised with her, courts of Australia. but the number of people calling for the introduction of these laws is minimal. Mr Weideman interjected.

Mr Baker interjected. Mr LIEBERMAN - No, I concede there have probably been some, but they would not amount to Mr LIEBERMAN - I am glad the Minister a ripple in the community. Because animal welfare travels throughout country Victoria; as the Minister organisations have some cause to worry about how for Food and Agriculture, he should. I am also glad they will protect themselves against legal action he aspires to spend more time in country Victoria when they find a stray cat, have it treated and put COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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down, a Bill is introduced that proposes compulsory up such a business. It does not mention the registration and imposes on councils the duty of planning, local government and health Acts, to administering the law and imposing annual fees! name a few, and there are probably others that also require some sort of registration or pennit and, God All of this is because there might be a problem. help us, some annual review of that. What about all Perhaps in some cases it is all a matter of degree. As of those that also have the potential, if they do not Parliamentarians we should be asking for evidence do so already, to control the operation and location of the number of court cases brought against people of these businesses? who are trying to do the right thing. Why do we need to add another layer of Mr Baker interjected. bureaucracy and another level of cost on the community which is already justifiably complaining Mr LIEBERMAN - The Minister is getting about the number of regulations and laws in this impatient with me. I ask him to reveal to the House State that are causing them problems? We must how many cases he knows of people who have listen to and take note of those people's concerns. In intervened with a stray cat and have been taken to his own heart the Minister knows that there are court and asked to pay damages. That is the material already adequate provisions in the planning law, for evidence that we as legislators should be asking for. example, to provide for the control of registration of The Minister should be able to say there have been X premises that deal with companion animals. number of cases in the past five years, and then we would have some material to justify whether we Mr Weideman interjected. should introduce laws that would make it compulsory for families in Victoria to register their Mr LIEBERMAN - And in the Health Act, as cats, pay fees and be subjected to all sorts of policing my colleague interjects. provisions. The DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Norris) - Order! Mr Baker interjected. He was out of order in doing so.

Mr LIEBERMAN - It was one of the Mr LIEBERMAN - We need a bit of lateral government members who spoke a moment ago in thinking in that regard. Even if the Bill were to support of the Bill and said that the Bill is justified include a clause that stated that the planning law because people who wish to care for stray animals would not apply, at least that would be clear and it that have been injured or are sick should not be would bring a focus to this Bill. However, I would exposed to legal action. She said there was a be opposed to that for many good reasons. For many problem with the law. She did not say, but we can years the community has been saying that it knows use our imagination, that the courts would be it must have planning laws but it has pleaded that cluttered up every week with cases of people being these planning laws in all the other Acts should be sued because they had arranged for stray cats to be brought together into one Act. When I was Minister treated or perhaps put down. for Planning, I used the phrase, "one stop shop", on many occasions. However, I realise that as soon as That is not the way things are in the real world. one brings them all together others immediately However, that is not to say that there should not be bring in measures to start putting them out into more effort to introduce into the community a other Acts again! voluntary system that will bring about more responsible pet ownership and care. That is the issue According to this Bill it does not matter what the we should be addressing. I am pleased the planning, local government or health laws say, this honourable member for Lowan is leading the debate Bill will have a provision, but it does not say what is about how this Bill should be changed to make it a to happen with the other laws. As honourable sensible Bill. members know, the other laws also apply. That provision could lead to the building of a couple We should also be protesting about the proliferation more decks on the council chambers! It would need of laws that require individual citizens or business many more people to administer that provision. people to obtain pennission to do something. In this case I am referring to a business associated with That is not the way the opposition wants to go. It is companion animals. According to the Bill one must more concerned with a voluntary registration go to the local council and ask for pennission to set COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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system which will allow people to care for their pets. prospect of having to deal with additional levels of What is wrong with that concept? bureaucracy all because this Labor government says it knows best and will impose additional obligations Mrs Ray interjected. on owners and others without trying a system of voluntary identification of cats. Mr LIEBERMAN - My response to that interjection is that it would allow people to take The regulation-making clause, clause 107, is control of their own affairs instead of the objectionable. Parliament spent many years setting government saying that it knows better. In actual up subordinate legislation provisions to enable it to fact governments generally muck things up. properly scrutinise regulations. That process is Governments cost a fortune and when a government working well and is an Australian pacesetter. starts to introduce these provisions to make people do all sorts of things the consequences reverberate Clause 107 will give the Governor in Council the on everybody and the government is brought into power to make regulations for or with respect to the disrepute. principles to apply to fees for the registration of companion animals and so on. But the Bill is silent There is nothing wrong with a system that says on what the principles should be. voluntary identification will protect one's rights and will bring about accountability. It follows that those The House is being asked to allow the Governor in who are not subject to voluntary identification Council to make regulations for fees, for the systems will be seen to be those about whom registration of companion animals and for the something should be done. In that regard the current conditions and restrictions that may be imposed on system can be made to work well without companion animal businesses, without the introducing all this other nonsense. parameters being defined! It is ridiculous for a government to ask for regulation-making powers I also object strongly to the Bill saying that one can and yet say that nothing more is needed because apply to a council if one wants permission to set up everything will be okay. It is certainly not okay to a companion animal business. However, it does not ask Parliament to pass badly drafted legislation say under what conditions. The council can say yes containing draconian powers. To add insult to the or no but the Bill gives no guidelines to the council injury of the vagueness and uncertainty the Bill will as to what it should be looking for. It does say one generate, the government has included thing: the council can say no but it does not state the extraordinary powers to make regulations without ground for that decision. In this day and age that is a any guidelines. pitiful provision. Clause 107 could lead to open slather. At the The Minister will probably say that the honourable direction of the government the clause has been member for Benambra should have said that there is drafted by Parliamentary Counsel without a right of appeal to the Administrative Appeals limitations. We should say enough is enough, that Tribunal. Of course there is a right of appeal but the we will not pass a Companion Animals Bill which is members of the tribunal are given no guidelines riddled with uncertainty and which has the potential under this Bill by which they can determine the basis to make regulations that no-one can predict. on which the Parliament intended them to deliberate on the vexed question of whether a companion After reading the Minister's second-reading speech I animal business should be allowed. defy any honourable member to say how much it will cost to register a cat. Some honourable members From reading the reports and judgments of the will say that it is unlikely to cost more than $lO, but tribunal it is obvious that tribunal members are the Bill is silent on the fee to be imposed. A screaming out to Parliament to stop passing laws differential of 200 per cent is set, but nothing more is that give people so-called rights of appeal to the said. tribunal without saying what it is on about in the first place and what are the guidelines and the Parliament will be derelict in its duty if it passes the parameters to be followed. Bill as drafted. It is about time we asked what is wrong with the voluntary registration of cats. Before They will have to become experts on all aspects of the Minister pushes on with his desire to companion animals and companion animal compulsorily register cats, he should be asked to businesses. The community faces extra costs and the give the House evidence to prove that legislation COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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dealing with the voluntary registration of cats and registration of cats in the hope that in due course a dogs would be ineffective and could result in costly similar system could also apply to dogs. court cases and damages. The whole matter is out of control! Honourable members have received many submissions on the Bill since its introduction. A I suggest the Minister should take up the suggestion number of opposition members argue that the best made by the Deputy Leader of the National Party, solution would be for the Bill to be withdrawn and who has put forward a very sensible program re-introduced in a fonn that takes into account the designed to bring people together to discuss the submissions they have received. issue, and to either withdraw the Bill or substantially modify it so that a voluntary system of Matters I should like taken into account when the registration is introduced. Bill is redrafted concern clause 21 and the clauses that follow and clause 90 and the clauses that follow The government should begin sensible discussions it. on what is needed. Parliament should not spawn another process of permits, decision-making, Clause 21 makes it an offence for a dog to be found applications and appeals in addition to all of the at large outside the premises of the owner either other levels of bureaucracy we already have to cope between sunrise and sunset or sunset and sunrise, with. the latter attracting the higher penalty. The following clauses refer to, for example, dogs found Mrs WADE (Kew) - Many honourable members at large in particular places and cats found at large have made well-infonned contributions to the outside owners' premises. debate, so I shall not reiterate many of the issues that have been raised. Without doubt the Minister should I am concerned with the interaction of those clauses be congratulated for his courage in tackling this with clause 90, which contains the power to serve difficult and delicate issue, but without doubt the infringement notices. The clauses that follow outline Bill has a number of problems. the infringement notice procedures.

One of the problems that has been identified was the Those matters came to mind as a result of two attempt to include horses in the Bill, which was not separate circumstances. Because I have a family dog in accordance with the recommendations made by I suppose I should declare that I have an interest in the Social Development Committee. The Minister the Bill! Firstly, our family dog will not understand realised that the Companion Animals Bill would be clause 21; and, in particular, she will not understand better off if the provisions applying to horses were that she is not supposed to be at large outside our deleted. premises between the hours of SWl.fise and sunset.

The provisions affecting the registration of cats I am sure that the particular problem I have with my require modification. I agree with the honourable dog is also a problem encountered by many other member for Benambra, who said that the Bill is people. It is certainly not unique. I raise it on the overly bureaucratic and some lateral thinking is basis that it will affect a large number of Victorians. required to overcome the problems he has identified. The other circumstance that led to my concern about Members of both sides of the House have expressed clause 21 and clause 90 is that many people have goodwill towards the Bill and have agreed about the been coming to my electorate office recently need for measures to encourage people to be complaining about fines that they have incurred and responsible pet owners. I am not sure whether that infringement notices and warrants for their arrest recognition extends beyond cats and dogs to that they have received. It has been suggested to me budgerigars and other animals! by many of these people that at present the government is giving a high priority to the collection Honourable members on both sides of the House of these fines; the Sheriff's Office and the PERIN agree about the need to encourage people to have court are working extremely hard and people are their companion animals desexed to control finding they are being hit with large numbers of over-breeding. We must be careful not to penalise infringement notices and warrants for arrest that go responsible pet owners. Consideration should be back up to three years for incidents that they had given to implementing a system for the voluntary totally forgotten about or possibly not known about if they had not received the notices in the first place COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

578 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 7 April 1992 or, in the case of a parking notice, if the notice had one's car. With a speeding offence one may not been removed from their car. know, but it is still a point that one should not incur that penalty unless one has been speeding. However I have been given examples of a couple of instances it is different when one has a dog like mine which recently. Perhaps the most serious one involved a finds every conceivable way of getting outside one's student who had incurred a number of parking fines premises, and if one is locked up here in Parliament as a result of working in a job where she was House one is not really aware of what one's dog is required to deliver goods. In fact, her employer doing during the day. normally paid the parking fines but apparently the employer had failed to pay the parking fines after Therefore we need something along the lines of a she had left the position. She had moved from one clause that says that an infringement notice shall not address to another and did not receive any notice of be served for the second or subsequent offence these particular parking fines until she was unless the officer serving it is satisfied that an earlier eventually found; a number of notices had been sent infringement notice has been served on the owner at by the Sheriff's Office to the wrong house number in least two, three or five days prior to the second or the street and when the mail finally caught up with subsequent offence being noted. her she was given something like half a dozen warrants for the payment of some $1000. The Minister says by interjection that when a dog is picked up it is taken to the pound. I am not aware The problem is compounded in this Bill in that the that that is necessarily the case. So far as I can see the offence is committed by the owner of the dog but the Bill does not contain a requirement that when a dog actual act that causes the offence is committed by the is picked up outside the premises it is to be taken to dog, or indeed the cat. Therefore the person who the pound. If that is the case it puts a different will have to pay the fine may not know that this complexion on the matter because the owner would particular action of the animal being outside the know the offence had occurred. premises between, for instance, sunrise and sunset or being on a beach, a railway station or in a On one occasion the Camberwell council kindly shopping centre has occurred; in fact, the owner may wrote me a letter noting that my dog had been out not know about this until he or she subsequently on the street and suggesting that in future the dog receives an infringement notice. should be kept inside, and of course if it happens again it is obviously my fault for not taking notice of I am aware that it is already an offence for a dog to that notification. I must say that when I was out in be found outside the owner's premises but the the Greensborough electorate just prior to the difference between the existing Dog Act and the present honourable member for Greensborough proposed legislation is not only that this Bill extends becoming a member of this House, the most to cats but also that it substantially increases the common complaint made to me was the level of penalty. At present the penalty for a dog being fines that were being levied by the council in that found outside the owner's premises is $100, but the area for dogs that had been found wandering penalty under a penalty infringement notice is $50. outside the owners' premises. Therefore, although it The penalty that can be incurred under this Bill has not proved to be a problem to me in Camberwell under a penalty infringement notice is $200. in the past, it may well be a continuing problem in some outer suburban areas. It concerns me that a dog may put his or her owner in the position of offending on several days running; I ask the Minister to check whether it is the case that so if the council could pick up the dog in the street it when a dog is picked up it is put in the pound. If it is could note its number and go back to the office and and the owner is notified, that does not present a note down the offence but the infringement notice problem. However, it does not seem to be required may not turn up until a week or ten days after that, under the provisions of this Bill and the matter and if the dog is picked up every day for a week the should be clarified. first time the owner may know about it is perhaps ten days later when he or she receives five or six The other issue I raise relates to submissions that I infringement notices. have received, which I understand have also been sent to the Department of Food and Agriculture - I It is different from a parking offence: if one receives might add that they are addressed to the former a parking fine one should know one has committed Department of Agriculture and Rural Affairs - by the offence because one should get the notice on the Royal Guide Dogs Associations of Australia. The COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

Tuesday, 7 April 1992 ASSEMBLY 579

association is in my electorate of Kew; in fact, guide The Bill has been received with goodwill on both dogs are something of a feature in my electorate sides of the House. I look forward to seeing a clean because the dogs are trained around the streets and draft that will pick up the issues raised by the on public transport in Kew by people who are expert opposition in the debate. in training dogs. People in the local community act as puppy walkers and people who intend to use Sitting suspended 6.22 p.m. until 8.2 p.m. guide dogs are also trained in the use of the guide dogs by walking around the local shopping centres Mr JASPER (Murray Valley) - In contributing to and down residential streets. the debate on the Companion Animals Bill, I indicate my support for the comments of the Clause 4(4) of the Bill provides an exemption for shadow Minister for agriculture - the Deputy companion animals kept as guide dogs for blind or Leader of the National Party - and other opposition deaf persons. Both the Minister and the shadow members. Honourable members have indicated Minister have indicated to me that they support the strong community concern about the Bill. Many exemption of guide dogs. However the guide dog people in the Murray Valley electorate have told me association has directed to my attention some that the Bill should be thrown out. Some strong difficulties it has with clause 4. I shall mention each comments about the Bill have been made to me as of these. Firstly it says the clause does not provide the Parliamentary representative. an exemption for persons training dogs, that is, people in places or on vehicles who are not deaf or In response the Minister may say that some blind but who are engaged in familiarising dogs members of the community do not recognise the with their future duties. I believe subclauses (2), (3) problems created by companion animals and stray and (4) of clause 4 should be extended to include an animals that are roaming the streets throughout exemption for trainee dogs and their handlers. Victoria. He might suggest that the Bill recognises the problems created by companion animals and Another problem that the association has pointed introduces some controls to overcome problems in out is that the exemption in clause 4 does not cover this area. partially blind or partially deaf people and that the reference to blind and deaf people should include a It is clear the proposed legislation does not assist in reference to persons with a visual or hearing addressing the many problems facing the disability so that people with a partial disability who community. As I have advised the House on have a guide dog have the advantage of the numerous occasions, when Bills are introduced into exemption in clause 4. Parliament I always take the opportunity of distributing copies to interested parties, including The other point that should be picked up is that organisations and municipalities in my electorate to subclause (4) refers to places and states that a blind obtain their views, that is, whether they believe it is person or deaf person may at all times and in all appropriate, whether it should be contested or places be accompanied by a dog kept and used by whether amendments should be made. him or her as a guide dog. The Companion Animals Bill has attracted more I suggest it would be desirable to extend the extensive representation than any other proposed reference to "places" in that clause to include legislation in recent years. Most of the constituents "vehicles" because it can be argued that a vehicle is who have responded have opposed the Bill. Most not a place within the meaning of clause 4(4). I am have been highly critical of the measure and have sure each of the problems that have been pointed encouraged me to seek a review of the proposed out by the Royal Guide Dogs Associations of legislation. I am surprised that the Bill has been Australia can be readily dealt with by clause 4. brought before Parliament when it clearly does not solve the many problems created by the large That would ensure that the people who train and number of animals and pets roaming the streets in use guide dogs know that all their activities are Victoria. covered by the provisions of the proposed legislation. I am sure the small problems I have I turn now to the Significant responses I received raised can be sorted out, as can the other issues from municipalities. There are ten municipalities raised by honourable members. wholly or partly within the Murray Valley electorate. When I distribute copies of Bills some municipalities respond and some do not, depending COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

580 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 7 April 1992 on how they view the proposed legislation and municipalities that in these economic times are quite whether they believe it is appropriate or requires unacceptable. amendment. In many cases mwlicipalities are prepared to accept the passage of proposed That the proposed regulations to the Bill should be legislation after appropriate debate in Parliament. made available for comment in addition to the Bill itself.

Every mwlicipality responded to my invitation to That is a Significant point. The House does not have comment on the Companion Animals Bill. They are these regulations before it and many regulations do in total opposition to the implications of the Bill not come before Parliament. It makes it very difficult because of the many problems it will create for for honourable members to debate a Bill when munici pali ties. extensive regulations relating to the Bill are not before the House prior to or while the legislation is Although there is significant opposition it does not debated. As Chairman of the Subordinate mean the Bill cannot be amended or reviewed. The Legislation Subcommittee of the Legal and Bill can be made more appropriate by including Constitutional Committee I am aware of extensive many of the recommendations highlighted by the regulations that are made under the powers Social Development Committee report, Inquiry into provided by Acts which should be made available to the Role and Welfare of Companion Animals in Society. members of Parliament prior to legislation being The government has not implemented many of the debated. Honourable members should be able to excellent recommendations made by the all-party consider the regulations that will flow from Parliamentary committee. proposed legislation while the Bills are being debated. In that way the regulations can be For the benefit of the House and the Minister I will appropriately assessed. refer to some of the responses I received from municipalities in my electorate. The United Shire of The Minister may say that it is extremely difficult to Beechworth, part of which falls within the Murray provide the regulations prior to the legislation being Valley electorate, conducted a public meeting at debated. However, over the past ten years which this resolution was passed unanimously: legislation that has come before Parliament has changed and extensive powers are now provided to That we the ratepayers of Beechworth reject in its make regulations. Less and less detail is included in entirety the proposed Companion Animals Bill and Bills debated before Parliament and more power is direct our elected councillors to notify the relevant given to the executive government to make Parliamentary members that they are required to reject regulations. That is of concern to governments and are not to enforce the said Bill. throughout the Western World.

It is important that the Minister and the government As I said, less detail is provided in Bills and the fully appreciate the sorts of responses the opposition executive government has extensive powers to make has been receiving from individuals, organisations regulations. That makes it extremely difficult for and municipalities. The Shire Secretary of the Shire members of Parliament to assess legislation. In of Yarrawonga, Mr Emonson, states: addition, Bills now contain penalty points if people do not comply with particular provisions. This Bill Council believes that many provisions of the Bill, provides many such penalties. However, the charges particularly those that relate to the registration of cats, associated with the penalty points are determined by are completely unworkable and will be extremely regulation, and that makes it difficult for honourable difficult to enforce. Further to this, council is concerned members to debate legislation. that the Bill places a significant workload on local government without providing councils with The third point made by the Shire of Cobram is: appropriate resources. Generally the additional responsibilities placed on The Acting Shire Secretary of the Shire of Cobram, municipalities by this Bill will become nothing more Mr Clouston, indicated his shire's opposition to the than an additional strain on rural Victorians, which at Bill and made three points: present will be very hard to justify to ratepayers.

The introduction of registrations for cats and other I shall quote part of the response I received from the domestic animals imposes additional costs to City Manager of the City of Wangaratta, Mr Greg Maddock: COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

Tuesday, 7 April 1992 ASSEMBLY 581

While we appreciate this Bill is the result of six years metropolitan conditions and bears no relationship to study and evaluation and has accepted objectives of the rural scene. reducing the number of unwanted and stray cats and dogs in the community, and also the feral cat The final letter from which I shall quote is from the population, the thrust again appears for the State Shire of Rutherglen. It also opposes the Bill, and the government to come up with the strategies and shire secretary, Mr Stephen O'Bree, states: concepts, leaving local government out of the sharp end, to make it happen. While councils may have made Of particular emphasis is council's strong objection to reasonable attempts and achieved reasonable results in the requirement of registering cats for reasons as stated regulation of dogs since 1970, by including other in the response. companion animals, particularly cats, has the potential of involving council, and its officers, in constant and The response is detailed in the infonnation it continuing conflict with its residents. On an emotional provides on the legislation in general and on the subject affecting some 75 per cent of families owning a clauses in detaiL pet of some type it is not hard to imagine the length and weight of argument from conservation and animal I have received responses not only from almost welfare groups, but again it will be councils caught in every mtmicipality within the electorate I represent the cross-fire in their role as impost collection and but also from individuals and organisations enforcement agencies for the State government. concerned about the impact of the BilL Members of Parliament must respond to the people they That is a genuine concern. The Shire of Chiltern also represent. If they do not respond to the wishes of the expresses opposition to the Bill in its current fonn. majority of Victorians, one cannot say we live in a The shire secretary, Mr Terry Smith, states: democracy.

Council at its meeting on Monday, 3 February 1992 I am concerned that the government will propose considered advice from the Municipal Association of some 80 amendments to the Bill. The Deputy Leader Victoria on the Companion Animals Bill which is to be of the National Party is the lead speaker on the Bill debated in the autumn session of Parliament. It was for the coalition and he has indicated that he will resolved at the meeting that you be asked to oppose propose major amendments to it. If legislation this Bill when it comes before Parliament. Council introduced to Parliament is flawed and needs to be believes the Bill is impractical and a further imposition changed, such legislation should be withdrawn and on the scarce resources of local government. redrafted. Administration of the present Dog Act 1970 is a cost to local government. However, local government is being The Minister should be sensible; he should asked to administer this Bill and use part of the fees withdraw the Bill and let honourable members collected to fund yet another State government discuss with all interested parties what its objectives bureaucracy. should be. The report of the Social Development Committee and the responses from the numerous The Shire of Oxley provided a short and sweet organisations responsible for pets throughout the response; the shire secretary, David Montgomery, commtmity should be taken into account. states: In 1987 the Liquor Control Bill was debated in Council has had an opportunity to examine the Bill, Parliament and extensive amendments were believes it to be flawed and therefore the total Bill proposed by the government as well as the should be thrown out. Council believes that what the opposition. At that time I pleaded with the government should be doing is to promote responsible government to withdraw t.1-te Bill, redraft it and ownership of pets through education. return it to the House in an amended fonn. The Minister responded by withdrawing the legislation That is a vital point. The Secretary of the Shire of and introducing a more sensible Bill at a later time. Wangaratta, Mr Doug Sharp, in an extensive letter In passing, I suggest that the Liquor Control Act states: 1987 was not the subject of appropriate consultation and, as I predicted in 1987, the Act has become In general, the Bill is impractical for rural areas and is unworkable and has caused. enormous problems. likely to result in exorbitant costs. It appears to be a Bill designed by metropolitan decision makers for Another Bill that had many amendments made to it was the Water Bill, which brought together all Acts COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

582 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 7 April 1992 relating to water. The government proposed more Again there is the reference to an education than 300 amendments to the Bill. On that occasion program. The letter further states: honourable members had to examine amendment after amendment. I accept that the legislation was The brand new bureaucracy created by the proposed necessary and that changes were required, but it board in this Bill is the most abhorrent to most people should have been withdrawn and a clean Bill to whom we have spoken. This is seen as a cushy job introduced so that members of Parliament could for members of certain animal welfare organisations. assess the issues clearly but, more importantly, so that the legislation would respond to the needs of I do not know whether that is fair comment. the community. However, the government has not given much weight to the responses of various interest groups. The government is hell-bent on introducing legislation that it believes is for the good of the PETCARE wrote to me on 17 January and referred to community, but the government is tired and it does the government's published announcement in late not know what is best for Victoria. When the Labor November 1989: government was first elected in 1982, the then Premier, the honourable member for Bundoora, said The government believes that the cost (of cat that legislation would be brought before Parliament registration) would far exceed the benefit of only after proper consultation. This government has implementing a cat registration scheme. lost its way. It now says that it knows what is best for the people of Victoria. The government will not A cat registration scheme by itself will do little to be the government for much longer. reduce the population of stray cats. However, substantial costs would be involved in paying Many of the organisations that have responded to registration fees and monitoring compliance. the coalition parties provided extensive information on proposed amendments to make the Bill more The opposition has undertaken the work the effective. Some people may say that the opposition government should have done. has received responses from extremist groups and that it is taking too much notice of those groups. Mr Baker interjected. That is not the case. Mr JASPER - The Minister may laugh and say The Permanent Animal Welfare Study group wrote that it is ridiculous. The Bill is a cynical political to the coalition and said, in part: exercise. The government has confirmed that it will introduce some 80 amendments during the It is becoming clear that there is widespread Committee stage of the debate and that it will community anxiety about the serious flaws in the Bill ... remove the provision relating to horses. I understand the Minister is concerned; obviously the It is clear that the confusion between identification and coalition has touched a raw nerve. The Minister has registration needs to be resolved. The benefits of a low introduced legislation without giving it appropriate cost, effective identification system far outweigh those consideration and without consulting with the of a registration system with its attendant problems of organisations involved. cost, administration and impracticality ... The shadow Minister, the honourable member for It also has significant problems where animals cross Lowan, has consulted with a large number of local government boundaries. organisations and he has received many responses. The coalition has examined the legislation and is It is difficult to stop animals from crossing seeking to make it workable and balance the municipal boundaries. The letter continues: interests of pet owners and the obligations of the government to ensure that unwanted and stray pets We believe that effective identification is imperative for do not roam throughout the community. any controls on stray, unwanted and feral animals to be implemented and nobody would be happier than we to I am concerned about the legislation. The Dog Act see a satisfactory solution to this problem, but until this has been accepted by most municipalities problem is solved we must rely on the long-tenn throughout Victoria and is now workable. The solutions of neutering incentives and education government says that the legislation will be programs. compulsory for municipalities and that they will be COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

Tuesday, 7 April 1992 ASSEMBLY 583

forced to toe the line. It is asking municipalities to do should consider withdrawing the Bill, re-examining its job. The opposition's proposed amendments will it and bringing in a more appropriate measure that make the Bill more workable but without major will effectively control companion animals within amendments the Bill will not be effective. the State.

The Minister knows full well that the Bill cannot Mrs BARKER (Bentleigh) - I should like to add work as it is presently drafted. I am concerned that a few comments in support of the Bill. It has been an the Minister has introduced to Parliament a Bill that area of interest to me for some time and I agree with requires extensive amendment to make it workable. the honourable member for Murray Valley that we Legislation that passes through Parliament is rarely should take notice of the views of the constituents 100 per cent correct, but on this occasion the we represent. My interest started in early 1990 when Minister should be smart. Mrs Edna Sanford came to see me about this issue. As the honourable member for Clayton will be Mr Cooper - That is asking a lot. aware, she is a well-known worker for animal welfare groups in the Bentleigh-Clayton area. Mr JASPER - Perhaps you are right. Honourable members are often asked by The Minister has enough intelligence to understand constituents about the wording of petitions and I the implications of the legislation. It should be was happy to help Mrs Sanford with that. She was withdrawn and redrafted. It proposes draconian interested in organising a petition that called for the measures that are not acceptable to the community. compulsory desexing of animals other than those The government is trying to force on the opposition used for breeding purposes and for animal funding and the community legislation that is irresponsible, to animal welfare groups. Honourable members will and the opposition will not accept it. It is typical of realise that animal welfare groups are made up of this government that it introduces legislation of this people who go out day after day and night after type. The Minister is quoted as saying that the night to pick up strays and, especially in the case of government is not going to wimp out on this Mrs Sanford, to take them back to their homes and legislation. Yet already he has agreed to remove eventually to shelters where, in most cases, they are horses from the provisions of the Bill and has put down. mentioned a large range of amendments. I was happy to assist Mrs Sanford's group with the The Bill should provide for a voluntary registration wording of the petition and gave out the appropriate system. Perhaps it should also provide for a review number of copies. I said I would table the petition in two years time. I am opposed to the setting up of because I supported its efforts. In early 1990 when another board because it is another bureaucracy. the group returned to me with the first batch of Already we have the Bureau of Animal Welfare and signatures collected I was pleased to table it in the the Animal Welfare Advisory Committee, which can House. That first batch of Signatures totalled 4881 advise the Minister on what should be done. and progreSSively over the past twelve months the group has gone out and collected more than 9300 The bottom line is that the Bill is unworkable and signatures on petitions which have been tabled in unacceptable and needs major amendments. this House. Today I have given petitions bearing a Nobody disagrees that we have a problem with further 1500 signatures to the Clerks for tabling, as is companion animals which must be addressed. The appropriate. So there are more than 10 000 opposition is prepared to cooperate with the signatures of people who are concerned about this government but the sledge-hammer approach being issue. I have been extremely happy to support them taken by the Minister is unacceptable to the in their efforts. opposition and to a wide range of organisations and individuals. I suggest again that the Bill must be I also arranged for a group of those ladies - and responsive to the wishes of the people of Victoria. they were all ladies - to see the previous Minister for Agriculture, and I was surprised at their My final comment is that education is the key to the commitment to the cause and their pleasure when problem. There should be a more involved they were informed that the Bill would be education system with schools and perhaps introduced. Along with those people I was pleased organisations involved in pet care educating people when the proposed legislation was introduced. It about their responsibilities for animals and the dealt with all of the issues they raised with me. control of animals within the State. The Minister COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

584 ASSEMBLY Tuesday. 7 April 1992

Unfortunately for them, it did not deal with the Many of the locals at that meeting who left while Cr compulsory desexing issue, but other issues with McCormack was reading out these letters contacted which they were pleased were the registering of me over the next few days to ask me to answer the dogs and cats; a lesser fee for those animals which questions they had wanted to ask at the meeting. I are desexed; identification of dangerous dogs and was happy to do that. Cr McCormack would have restraints on those dogs; the registration and code of better served the area which he and I both represent practice for companion animal businesses, and the if he had allowed the local people to ask their Animal Welfare FWld. questions that night rather than allowing groups such as PAWS to give out hysterical and misleading It was interesting earlier to hear the honourable information and to take over a meeting at which member for Warrnambool speak about the art of local people were trying to have their questions consultation. I assure him that some of us do know answered. the art of consultation and that is what we set about putting into practice in the Bentleigh electorate. One classic example that night was a gentleman in Following the second reading of the Bill I sent all of the audience who joined in every time the minority the information to the many hWldreds of people on sang out and disrupted the meeting. He came to me the list in my electorate who were interested in this after the meeting and said that he was concerned as Bill and I also arranged a meeting at the Moorabbin he showed a fox terrier and believed that because he Town Hall which the Minister kindly agreed to had a fox terrier that was not desexed he would have attend. to pay a higher registration fee. He came to the office the next day and I showed him the clauses of the Bill The meeting was designed for people from the and the schedule which clearly showed him that the Moorabbin-Bentleigh area to discuss the proposed owners of dogs registered with an organisation legislation, to ask questions about it and to have approved by the director-general would not have to those questions answered. I was pleased that the pay a higher registration fee. I asked him if there Minister and officers from the department attended. was anything else he wanted to know and he said They were knowledgeable and answered the that was all; it was just that he had received all these questions that were asked. We had a large turn-up, letters from other people and he thought the but unfortunately, as I have said to a number of government was trying to do some dreadful things. people since, a raving minority took over that meeting. I was not unhappy that Cr McCormack took up such a huge amOWlt of time at that meeting because a lot The meeting was advertised as a local meeting for of local people came to me after the meeting and I the area. I add, for the benefit of some honourable was able to talk to them sensibly, which is what members, that Moorabbin is the third largest should have occurred but did not because the time mWlicipality in the State. As such it was entitled to was taken up with reading out hysterical letters. have its own meeting with the Minister and departmental officers and have its questions The flurry of activity in my office after the meeting answered. Some local Moorabbin cOWlcillors were was handled well by my very competent staff. One also in attendance, one of whom was Cr staff member in particular who was well versed in McCormack. Incidentally, the raving minority did the provisions of the Bill answered questions when I not come from the local area and it was was absent. My staff and I must have handed out disappointing that it did not allow the locals to hWldreds of copies of the Bill, which we were happy speak. to do because that is part of what consultation is about. Cr McCormack spent some time at that meeting. He decided he would read out two letters. One was After his second-reading speech the Minister let the from a group called PAWS and I Wlderstand that Bill lie over for further consultation. All this talk group is actually based in Belgrave or at least has about the government's not consulting the Belgrave on its letterhead. Not one representative commWlity about the Bill is rubbish! My staff and I from PAWS attended that meeting but it sent a letter consulted people in my electorate. We welcomed which it asked Cr McCormack to read out. He took their questions and comments, and many of the up 10 to 15 minutes of valuable question time suggestions my constituents made about changes to reading a letter which had been letterboxed or the Bill were forwarded to the Minister and, I am mailed to everybody anyway. sure, were gratefully received by him. Following the COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

Tuesday, 7 April 1992 ASSEMBLY 585 meeting a number of letters were written to the local Ms George invited Cr McCormack to visit her street: paper. Cr McCormack should come to our street. He could Honourable members interjecting. have met Mr Spot, a rabbit owned by a neighbour but which ended up being cared for by my husband and I. The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Evans) - Order! There are too many interjections. The honourable In other words, Nanette looked after the rabbit member has the right to state her case without because he had no-one else to take care of him. The interruption. letter continues:

Mrs BARKER - Following the meeting at the He could also have met the S

Without entering into the dispute over Cr Mr MACLELLAN (Berwick) - On a point of McCormack's behaviour at a recent meeting ... I wish to order, Mr Acting Speaker, I wonder whether the take him up on other matters mentioned in his reply. honourable member for Bentleigh will cite the letter from which she has been reading as to its date and He claims that his job is to represent all points of the correspondent, especially in view of her earlier view- comments about the fringe nature of some of the correspondence received on the Bill by honourable which is what he claimed to be doing by reading the members. letters I have referred to - The ACTING SPEAKER -Order! Is the but he has only represented the viewpoint of those who honourable member prepared to indicate the source own animals or have a vested interest in promoting of the letter she is reading from? their sale. He does not represent the views of many other members of the public. Mrs BARKER (Bentleigh) - As I said, this letter and a number of others were written to the editor of The letter continues: my local paper, and I shall be happy to table them if you wish. The letter I am citing was written by Not long after moving to Moorabbin I was driving Nanette George about the Companion Animals Bill. along South Road when a dog ran from behind a parked car, causing a motor accident. The ACTING SPEAKER - Order! The honourable member for Bentleigh is prepared to Seeing the animal almost get hit a second time ... I make the material available to the House. drove around, got the dog and, with the help of a nice couple, located its owner, who said that the dog had Mrs BARKER - The Bill is important because it been digging its way out, but apparently no effort had reflects the sentiments of people in the suburbs who, been made to prevent this. because they care about stray animals, often end up COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

586 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 7 April 1992 taking in strays without knowing what to do with have done a lot of work to ensure that local people them. have been consulted about the provisions of the Bill.

Nanette George concludes her letter by saying that I congratulate the Minister for the way in which he much of the hysteria and nonsense that went on at has ensured community consultation on the Bill; and the Moorabbin Town Hall: I congratulate his department for the effort it has made to tell people about the Bill's contents and to ... represent the views of selfish, compassionless human listen to the suggestions and comments that have beings who think only of their hip pockets. been made.

Ms George does not believe the views put forward Although I am disappointed about the amendments that night "represent the views of responsible, caring that are proposed to be made, I wholeheartedly citizens". She says: support the Bill.

Instead of thinking in just economic terms, Cr Mr E. R. SMITH (Glen Waverley) - Like many McCormack might think of the suffering endured by government Bills, the Companion Animals Bill will countless neglected animals in Moorabbin. affect many people in our community --

I shall refer to another letter written by Wendy Mr Madellan interjected. Smith. It was published in the Moorabbin Standard of 25 March this year, one week following Ms George's Mr E. R. SMITH - They are the ones who have letter. Wendy Smith says: written to honourable members in the past few months. I was present at the meeting on the proposed Companion Animals Act and I am seriously doubting Like most honourable members I have received my own memory. hundreds of letters on the subject, ranging from people asking for information to people forwarding As I recall, Cr McCormack's presentation of the views signed standard letters of the kind sent to all held by the PETCARE Information and Advisory honourable members. Service and the Permanent Animal Welfare Study group took longer than 10 minutes and was opposed One letter I received from Ms Anna Lindars, of 121 by all on the stage. Brighton Road, Elwood, best sums up what I consider to be the impact the Bill, as drafted, will In her letter she says that she has worked full time in have on Victorian pet owners. In her letter of 25 the animal welfare field for fifteen years and has March, Ms Lindars says: seen more than enough of the evidence needed to support the Bill. In her letter she calls on the I am writing to you with my concerns about the above PETCARE Information and Advisory Service to Bill. I have a dog-walking service and am very worried publish its statistics on the so-called increase in the about the implications of this Bill. responsible behaviour of pet owners. She says: The Bill does not address the problem of impulse This proposed Bill has been a long time coming and buying by stopping all markets selling animals and there is a need for it. allowing only some pet shops to sell. It does not state there should be codes of practice, only that there may I welcome her comments, because they reflect the be. It does not insist on guidelines on animal welfare views of ordinary people in the suburbs who care together with after-sales service. It does not suggest about animals and who, night after night, pick up desexing vouchers should be sold at the time of strays only to see them put down soon afterwards. purchase which would heavily eliminate impulse Like those people I support the Bill and am buying. disappointed by the number of amendments that are being proposed. Nevertheless, I accept that the Bill The Bill should be encouraging responsible pet represents a beginning to the solving of this huge ownership through education not fines and problem. bureaucracy.

As I said I would, I have spoken about the effect the Ms Lindars expresses particular interest in clause 88 introduction of the Bill has had in my local area. I in proposed Part 8, which states: COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

Tuesday, 7 April 1992 ASSEMBLY 587

Section 8 is provocative and will give far too much And, I add, probably a common-law right: power to local government and infringe on civil liberties. For a council to be able to make a local law to own a pet. The Bill [virtually] encourages designating a specific area of the municipality to be irresponsible dumping and denial of ownership companion animal free must go against all our because of the inability of people to pay fines. democratic ideals of a free country. How would this law solve the problem of impulse buying, of feral cats I hope the Minister takes note of some of the points or dumping? being raised because I believe Ms Lindars certainly summarises the feelings of the opposition and of the If one examines clause 88(2) one notes that some of great majority of the community. She also states: the powers being vested in cat and dog inspectors, for want of a better phrase - they are referred to in People have owned animals for hundreds of years and the Bill as "authorised officers" - give cause for have lived side by side in total harmony. If there are too concern not only to people who are greatly many unwanted animals being put down every year concerned about pets but also to those who have then firstly let us solve the problem at source and put a great concern for humans because the government is stop to impulse buying. Let us have more education to once again giving excessive powers to cat and dog encourage the responsible looking after of pets. More inspectors, or pet inspectors, when it is denying the and even more legislation, rules, regulations and same sorts of powers to the Victoria Police in respect revenue raising is not the way to achieve this aim. of identifying crime suspects. Ms Lindars goes on to talk about Hugh Wirth of the Clause 88(2) provides that for the purposes of RSPCA and states: subsection (1) an authorised officer may: Hugh Wirth of the RSPCA is pushing this Bill forward (c) inspect equipment, machinery, implements, plans, probably because the RSPCA has a $1.5 million deficit animals enclosures or other goods; or and he wants this cleared from the revenue collected. (d) ask questions; or He has stated there are provisions for pensioners in the Bill - there are none; (e) seize, examine or take copies of, or extracts from documents; or I have also examined the Bill carefully and I can find (f) seize and remove any companion animals in no such provisions. Shortly I shall refer to a radio circumstances where he believes the owner of the program that I heard on the ABC on a Saturday animal may be guilty of an offence under this Act; moming involving Or Wirth. Ms Lindars continues: or he has stated that horses weren't included, they were; (g) request a person to give his or her name and place of he has stated that the council will have no more powers residence. under the Bill than the Dog Act 1970 - equally untrue. The last provision is the very power that the coalition has been pushing for years to be given to The Dog Act states that the inspectors may enter the Victoria Police, but the government will not give properties in daylight hours. This Bill goes one step it that power. It will not give the Victoria Police the further - so Or Wirth is wrong in this respect - right to ask for the names and addresses of suspects and talks about "reasonable" hours. In other words, in crime, but it has no worry at all in giving such in winter months when the hours of daylight are power to by-laws inspectors in the pursuance of shorter it is probably working time for some people their duties. It is ironic initially and it just shows and they would consider it quite reasonable to enter where this government's standards lie. One of the premises during those hours. I am not taking basic requirements for the police is being denied, exception to that; I am just saying that Or Wirth and this proves again just how hypocritical the made that point. Ms Lindars also says: government is. Yet, where has there been one objective report -- I return to what Ms Lindars says: I hope the Minister is listening to this because I What the Bill does is discriminate greatly against believe Ms Lindars is referring particularly to him in pensioners and people on low incomes who have a this respect: democra tic right -- COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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Yet where has there been one objective report in the place on the Hansard record because it is relevant to supposed free press? Why are letters objecting to this this debate. She states: Bill not being published? This Bill leaves the matter of cat curfews at the total Ms Lindars is implying that pressure has been discretion of the local councils. It does not dictate to brought to bear. I know nothing of this but it is a councils that they must commence a nightly stake-out point made by one person who has written to me in in the hope of arresting an innocent "moggie" out what I consider to be a fairly representative letter of having an evening stroll. Nor does this Bill permit any the whole community. Finally, she says: authorised officer to enter any residence in pursuit of an entire animal. Please investigate. She has this to say about the registration of The radio program involving Or Wirth to which I companion animal businesses: referred earlier was really a challenge. As I said, there is a program on the ABC from, I think, 9.30 to No small business at this stage needs any more red tape 10 o'clock on Saturday mornings in which he takes but this Bill needs to be introduced to stop, or control, listeners' calls about problems they have with their street market selling of animals. Too often, children see pets. and want a kitten or puppy, and, because animals seem to be inexpensive, parents buy with no thought to the I believe it was two Saturdays ago that Or Wirth was next ten-fifteen years of caring and feeding, and on a Liberal and National party bashing program children, too, often lose interest with that puppy or and at one stage he gave us such a bashing that he kitten after it reaches its adulthood. suggested that the coalition would probably deny him his funding. That is not the way we operate. In conclusion she asks: However the way that Or Wirth is promoting his cause at this stage takes away much of his credibility Why is there no room for on-the-spot fines? Dangerous and if I were he I should be very careful about the dogs - should not a breed of dog, already banned way I was antagonising many people because of my from import by the Federal government, have an approach to the Bill. impossibly high registration fee and perhaps even some kind of insurance covering attacks on other The Bill is flawed; if it was not the Minister would persons? not be planning to make 80 amendments to it tOnight. I should be interested to see the extent of The reason I have presented comments made in those amendments and whether many of them could support of the Companion Animals Bill is to let the be described as machinery amendments or Minister for Food and Agriculture know that the amendments correcting typographical errors or opposition is not presenting comments oply from whatever. those constituents who have complaints about provisions of the Bill. However, the fact that 80 amendments are proposed indicates the Bill has not been thought through The Bill addresses an important issue in the properly and has been cobbled together in a hurry community. We want to ensure that after the because the government feels it must have it passed incredible amount of effort and time put in by in the dying stages of its administration before the honourable members on both sides of the House we election; as a result there has been a great deal of get the Bill right. Here is an opportunity for the carelessness and not enough thought put into it. Minister, having heard the criticisms of the opposition, to take them on board and include them I have said that I have received letters from in the Bill along with the 80 amendments he will hundreds of people, as have other honourable move tOnight. The Minister should accept the members. There have also been letters from people amendments that will be moved by the opposition. supporting the Bill. Mrs Lesley Crews of Unless he takes that course, the Bill will not go very 35 Appletree Drive, Glen Waverley, sent me a letter far. also dated 24 March in which she calls for many of the measures which both the government and the I hope that while the Bill is between here and opposition are aware should be implemented. She another place the government will accept the presents a different viewpoint which I should like to substantive amendments that will be proposed tonight by the opposition. Each of the amendments COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

Tuesday, 7 April 1992 ASSEMBLY 589 represents hundreds of hours of consultation with One of my constituents has lobbied me constantly and people who have strong opinions either for or vigorously. He has also lobbied the Minister's office against the original propositions of the government. and is well known to the officers of the Social Development Committee and officers of my local As I said, the Bill affects every household. It affects municipal council, who have had to prosecute him on people who are pet owners, that is, pet lovers, and at least one occasion. I will say more about that later. people who are annoyed by pets or have some reason to be afraid of pets in adjoining houses. I dare The person concerned argues that there are no say that everyone in the community is affected by unwanted companion animals. He argues that the the Bill. figures produced by the various animal welfare agencies are cooked and that unwanted animals do not As I said also, honourable members have taken the exist. time to debate the issues after consultation with our constituents. I reiterate: while the Bill is between The gentleman in question has been identified by the here and another place the government should honourable member for Preston. He is Mr Alan accept the amendments that will be moved by the Walker of 30 Setani Crescent, West Heidelberg. opposition as well as incorporating its own When he rang me he was concerned that he had amend men ts. been referred to in Parliament. He takes the view - and I agree with him - that when someone takes up Honourable members want to get the proposed a matter with a local member of Parliament it is legislation right for the people of Victoria. The done in confidence. He did not give the honourable subject matter of the Bill affects all of us. I wish the member for Preston - or anybody else - an Bill a speedy passage, but I hope that in the end indication that the matter should be discussed in the Victoria will have legislation that is properly House. The honourable member for Preston made balanced and will be in place for many years no reference to such an indication. because it is satisfactory to all members of the community, whether or not they are pet owners. Mr Walker told me that he had put a substantial document before the Social Development Mr WEIDEMAN (Franks ton South) - I had not Committee. He said also that he had been a nuisance intended to speak on the Companion Animals Bill as to the Minister's office. He said this was so because all the aspects of the Bill have been canvassed by he felt for some reason that the Lost Dogs Home in previous speakers. I refer particularly to the North Melbourne was getting special treatment. He contribution of the honourable member for was trying to find out whether it was true that the Benambra and his description of how governments stepdaughter or the daughter of the Minister worked work in the community. I was stimulated to speak in the home. I do not know what that is a reference after the honourable member for Bentleigh referred to. to her response to the requests of a constituent. She said that she had been active and had a high level of Mr Baker - Does that make you feel good? communication from one constituent. Mr WEIDEMAN - No, it does not make me feel Like most honourable members, I have received good. numerous letters, including roneoed documents, about the Bill. Last weekend I must have been the Mr Baker - It does make you feel good; we can only Parliamentarian who could be contacted. A see that. gentleman who telephoned me had been through the list of Parliamentarians in both Houses. He Mr WEIDEMAN - It does not. wanted to comment on how he had been treated by his local member after he had approached him about Mr Baker interjected. the Companion Animals Bill. The ACfING SPEAKER (Mr Evans) - Order! The man to whom I refer lives in Heidelberg and he The Minister for Food and Agriculture can rebut the has approached his local member, the honourable case later. member for Preston, who, in his contribution to the debate on the Bill, said: Mr WEIDEMAN - I ask the Minister to withdraw the comment he made. COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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Mr Baker - Which comment would that be? The honourable member's comments about Mc Walker were false. He did not have a string of The ACfING SPEAKER - Order! The convictions; there were three, and none was an honourable member for Frankston South has asked animal welfare charge. He finds the comment that he the Minister for Food and Agriculture to withdraw was taken to Preston Magistrates Court in 1976 words he finds objectionable. I ask the Minister to do highly offensive because it is false. so, in accordance with the ruling given recently by the Speaker. It is easy to make accusations. I am not defending Mr Walker. He does not claim to be a wonderful Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and person; but the honourable member for Preston Agriculture) - Mr Acting Speaker, I accept that spoke with a forked tongue in this place and made ruling and I withdraw. false allegations. Mr Walker tried to talk to honourable members but could not find anyone. At Mr WEIDEMAN (Franks ton South) - In his the market where he works he went to the trouble of contribution to the debate on the Companion using one of the anti-Companion Animals Bill Animals Bill, the honourable member for Preston petitions and got 1812 signatures. He believes he made allegations about Mc Walker. The record could get more than 10 000 in several weekends, if shows that he said: necessary.

He is a pet shop proprietor... He made a comment about the time he found himself in trouble with the RSPCA. A duck was Apparently Mr Walker conducts a small stall at the involved. It was destroyed. It was a child's pet in the Bundoora market, where he sells fish. Perhaps the garden of the house where he lived. The judge said, honourable member for Preston was referring to a '1f only the duck could talk" but suggested that it previous occupation of Mr Walker. However, he is would rather be a happy duck than a dead duck. not a pet shop proprietor and therefore that statement is false. The Herald-Sun of 15 January 1992 has a picture of a nice dog, which reminds me of my own pets. I do The honourable member for Preston said also that not know whether any honourable member has a Mr Walker is "opposing this measure". That is true; pecuniary interest in the Bill but I am the owner of a very large cat called Sid Vicious and until recently I The honourable member for Preston also said of had a labrador-greyhound cross. The dog in this MrWalker: picture is one I should like to own. The article is headed "Dogs, cats find homes in sale" and states: ... this gentleman is a good example of the reason for the provision. He has a string of convictions for cruelty Melbourne's biggest animal refuge has almost run out charges and animal welfare charges dating from 1976 of cats and dogs. to 1983 including convictions in 1976 in Kerang resulting in a $115 fine, convictions in the Melbourne The Lost Dogs Home and Cat Shelter could not keep up County Court - three cruelty charges resulting in a with sales, its general manager Dr Graeme Smith said $1200 fine ... today.

Mc Walker informs me that 42 charges were brought "There's a huge number of people keen to buy pets," he against him by the RSPCA and three were proven. said. One related to some pigeons in a loft. They were healthy but unable to fly because he did not let them ''1 think the recent cold weather and the holidays have out to fly, wanting to restrict their flight. One pigeon something to do with it". was apparently dead in a cage; and he had a balding cockatoo that he wanted to keep in a rubber cage. It goes on to say that in the clearance sale which was held after thousands of cats and dogs were dumped They were the three instances in which he was and when a 33 per cent discount was offered the found to be wanting. It cost thousands of dollars to shelter was crowded with keen buyers. It states: bring the case against him but only three minor charges were followed through. The home is still housing 400 dogs and cats a week but half are not really suitable for sale. COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

Tuesday, 7 April 1992 ASSEMBLY 591

"People don't want to buy sick or old dogs, so they are The opposition is asking the Minister to examine the put down," Mr Smith said. Bill. He has made great play of the fact that horses no longer form part of the Bill. On the Mornington The last time the home had a shortage of dogs and cats Peninsula many horse-breeding groups use was in 1989. One in six lost dogs, 1 in 100 puppies and enormous sections of the land and there are many 1 in 1000 cats were claimed by their owners, he said. riding schools in the area. Other local members and I have received many representations in regard to the I have some figures that relate to animal welfare Bill and animals in general. The comment was made societies. The RSPCA in Melbourne says in 1985-86 that these animals were being ridden and were work dogs in the refuge numbered 5792 and cats 9027. In animals, not animals one would want to sleep with. 1986-87 there were 7265 dogs. This was an increase of 25.43 per cent. Cats numbered 10 261, an increase Therefore they felt horses should be covered in a of 13.67 per cent. In 1988-89 there was an increase of separate Bill. We understand that and we are yet to 15.04 per cent to 8358 for dogs and an increase of see the amendments that will remedy that situation. 2.91 per cent to 10560 for cats. In 1989-90 there was a decrease of 5.41 per cent for dogs and 4.29 per cent The issue of cat ownership has been raised by all for cats. In 1990-91 there was a decrease of 18.87 per honourable members. The Frankston City Council cent for dogs and 29.05 per cent for cats. supports voluntary registration of cats with the cat owner having the voluntary right to identify an In 1987 the Cat Protection Society received 15000 animal using an approved system such as the cats. This decreased by 8.3 per cent to 13 000 in 1991. microchip, where identification is held at a central The combined Cat Protection Society and RSPCA registry, or a collar and tag inscribed with the figures for cats show that in 1989 there were 22 560 owner's name and address. unwanted cats, a figure that decreased by 19.36 per cent to 20171 in 1991. In 1989-90 the Lost Dogs Most honourable members who are cat owners Home received 10 955 dogs. This figure decreased to would know that cats are not very fond of having 10053 in 1990-91. things a ttached around their necks, such as bells, and that they are likely to lose a collar and tag, The combined figures from the three major animal which makes the collar-and-tag method of welfare societies comparing animals handled identification unreliable. Obviously the microchip between 1989-90 and 1990-91 show a change of method of identification is an attractive proposition. 7.95 per cent to 25 418 for cats and 12.69 per cent to 16467 for dogs. A document from the RSPCA makes Provisions for dangerous dogs are generally the comment that dogs received in 1990-91 supported, but we need refinement of the practical numbered 6414 and cats numbered 7171. In 1989-90 provisiOns of clause 22 relating to dogs found in dogs received numbered 7906 and cats 10 107. In places such as beaches and schools. 1989-90 the number of all animals received, including birds, possums and other native animals, I live in a beachside community and I assure the was 28 529. In 1990-91 the figure was 25 603. Minister that a distance of half a kilometre from the water would take one well into the residential area The document also states that the full measure of the of Mount Eliza and Frankston, and many dogs tragedy should be understood. by the general would be domiciled in those areas. community. The RSPCA received about 13000 cats and 12000 dogs last year. The combined animal The council in my area has caused by-laws which welfare shelters receive about 42 000 cats and 33 000 make it illegal for dogs to be taken onto beaches dogs each year. from 1 December until the end of March each year, and that is very much understood. by the Returning to the matter of Mr Walker I repeat that community. At other times of the year dogs on he was impugned in this House. He tried to put leashes can be taken onto the beaches. As a forward a contrary view and the govenunent was consequence there has been a Significant decrease in not prepared to allow him to do that. False the number of dogs to be seen on the beaches in the allegations were made against him. I hope the summer period. honourable member for Preston will correct the misinformation he put before the House. The opposition commends the work of the Social Development Committee whose aims were: to promote the responsible ownership of companion COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

592 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 7 April 1992 animals; to protect and promote the welfare of before now have tried and failed to actually companion animals; obviously to oversee and accomplish that feat. reduce overbreeding and the nuisance caused by companion animals in the destruction of flora and I also refer in particular to the contributions of the fauna; to regulate companion animal businesses; and honourable members for Rodney and Portland. The to regulate the boarding and agistment of horses. latter honourable member has some specialist disciplinary expertise in these matters, and it has Often in the local press one sees a report of horses shown. not properly looked after. We all receive calls asking for action to be taken. Local people on the Peninsula Among government members I particularly pay are keen to ensure that particularly horses in tribute to the honourable member for Box Hill who paddocks and on small agistments are well looked led the all-party Parliamentary committee on this after. matter and has battled uphill, against the wind, to ensure that something came out of the process. Both here and in the other place the Minister will have a lot of negotiating to do. I understand this Also, the honourable member for Bentleigh has been evening we are faced with 80 amendments. Much active in generating wide-scale community support work has to be done if the Bill is to be passed. for the basic principles of the Bill.

The opposition recognises the need in the I note with some interest that the opposition has not community for such a Bill, and it also sees that many indicated whether it was actually prepared to of the councils and community groups want implement, on slab or in toto, the major involvement in the implementation of the Bill. recommendations of the Social Development Voluntary action is the best action, and in my own Committee. At no stage did it indicate that it would community one has to accept how well it can work. have passed the recommendations. I assume from its unanimous silence that this was not the opposition's Therefore, I ask all honourable members, as did the intention; in fact, it was anything but that. honourable member for Bentleigh, to ensure that both sides of the argument are put forward in the Because this is not an issue of ideology and because community; and it seems fair and reasonable that it is not an issue that is purely political in any sense someone who would take up a matter with a relating to the normal divisions between us, I have member of Parliament could feel protected in the attempted to bring the matter before the community sense that what they believe to be sensitive issues and before Parliament, and to force both parties to are handled correctly in this place. confront a vexatious issue in a way in which the Parliament was originally meant to perform on great It has been a wide-ranging debate, and one hopes Significant serious and vexatious issues of our time. that the issues promoted are of concern to the whole community. Therefore, I have quite deliberately and against hardline and hardnosed political advice produced a Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and Bill that, some eight months ago, started with my Agriculture) - At the outset, I make the observation going to see the Municipal Association of Victoria. that despite some of the complaints about the way Parliament has behaved in recent years this debate, I want honourable members to understand exactly in many aspects, has shown Parliament at its best. It how I proceeded with the Bill because I believe I can was more noticeable among the earlier speakers; and claim to have done it in the most honourable way, the names of people at the front end of the debate despite the cost associated with that method of from both sides of the House will stand in history in approach. this matter. I took the recommendations of the Social I refer to the Deputy Leader of the National Party Development Committee to the Municipal and, in particular, to the honourable member for Association of Victoria and asked it to canvass Ripon, who is a former Minister of Agriculture and different municipalities and in particular select those who is well aware of the difficulties involved in just that had been innovative and had made a serious getting a Bill on a contentious and vexatious issue of attempt to deal not only with the problem of the this kind through one's own party, let alone through irresponsibility of companion animal owners but Cabinet and then into Parliament itself. Many people also to deal with animal numbers. COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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I remind honourable members, as did the government and me, 80 amendments are honourable member for Box Hill, that one of the foreshadowed. They have a compelling logic. They major problems confronting us is the increase in the include five of the six propositions made by the numbers of dogs and cats, particularly in the PETCARE Information and AdviSOry Service, which metropolitan area. Some of the best estimates honourable members know is funded by the pet suggest that there are 2 million dogs and cats in the food manufacturers - they do not even bother to metropolitan area. Some estimates suggest there are hide it any more. The only proposition PETCARE 150 000 stray cats in the metropolitan area. Those did not get was cat registration because the estimates come from the pet food industry. government believes cat registration is an important and critical issue. We do not resile from that view. Or Napthine interjected. The government stands by its position on cat registration because it believes it is essential to clear Mr BAKER - If the bottom end of the estimates up the problems we have in this area. is taken they number 1.5 million. The numbers are somewhere between 1.5 million and 2 million. That The MA V proposed a range of amendments of is a lot of cats and dogs roaming around. We have to which 27 were picked up. The only matters that do something about it. I hope Parliament will bend were excluded were those relating to cat registration to its task. and the animal fund. We believe the fund should be established so that funds can be distributed by the I took the propositions made by the MA V and organising committee for animal welfare education, embodied them in the principles relating to for cheaper desexing clinics and for the animal responsible pet ownership contained in the Bill. The welfare groups. They are all strapped for cash and incentive and disincentive schemes came from the we believe it is a reasonable proposition that 5 per Shire of Mornington. It has used those effectively. I cent of the fees raised should go to those purposes. noted that the honourable member for Mornington failed to mention these matters in his splendid The government will have a limited representation contribution to the debate. I brought the Bill to on the board, which would be largely run by the Parliament and allowed six months for consultation. councils and animal welfare groups. Where is the The Bill was read on the last day of the spring opportunity for dishonesty or for the government to sessional period so that no-one could accuse the get its hands on the funds? It is ridiculous to suggest government of stifling debate or hindering further that is what the government has in mind. Finally the propositions coming forward. RSPCA and other interest groups such as hobby breeders have argued compellingly about the The government does not claim a monopoly of provisions in the Bill that should be amended and wisdom in this matter. No-one can pretend there is a those matters are contained in the 80 amendments simple answer to the problem. Trial and error will foreshadowed. be involved in this legislation but we must get on and do something about it. The Social Development I am proud of what we have done. We have used the Committee sat exhaustively to produce a report and proper basis of consultation and review to bring the if we were to turn around and say we are not going Bill to Parliament. Now it is the turn of the to do anything more because the Bill must be opposition. Let us see how it performs because that referred back to another committee that would not is its role in Parliament. If the opposition believes it be satisfactory. has a better way of doing things then let us hear its ideas. Unfortunately, the opposition is light on ideas. The time has come for Parliament to face up to its Apart from the two or three leading opposition responsibility. I have allowed the process of speakers they were strong on criticism but light on consultation to take place during the six months the suggestions to deal with this difficult problem. Bill has been on the Notice Paper. I have spoken to a range of groups that were concerned about this This is a totally apolitical issue and let us see what issue. I called on all interested parties to send me we can do with a sense of goodwill. The Bill places propositions or opinions about the Bill on whether it the responsibility back on pet owners to be was practical or unworkable. I have taken up many accountable for the decisions they make about their of those suggestions. I do not apologise for that. As a pets. An incentive is built into the registration result of the consultative process, the ferment and process to encourage people to desex their animals fury, the demonstrations and the threats, both and the recommendation made by the Social personal and collective, directed against the Development Committee on dangerous dogs was COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

594 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 7 April 1992 included in toto in the Bill. I gather there is a major Mr W. O. McGRA TH (Lowan) - The Committee problem about that. has been presented with about 80 amendments. Although amendment No. 1 refers to the agistment Finally, we have come to terms with the issue of of horses as detailed in clause 1, I ask that progress cats; difficult though it is, the Bill gives them legal be reported. I know the Minister has circulated the status. The government has set out on the path of amendments to some honourable members but in trying to do something about the significant number concluding the second-reading debate he attempted of unwanted cats and the environmental, social and to explain the government's position about these economical problems they produce for our amendments and said that he has accepted about 27 community. of the amendments put to him by the Municipal Association of Victoria and a number of other I leave the House with a line from Orson Welles, a organisations; so it is appropriate that the coalition great animal lover. He said, "Pets are hostages to be given the opportunity of talking to the fortune" - as are politicians, I would venture to say. organisations mentioned by the Minister.

This is what the Bill is about. Pets are hostages to The Minister did not adequately address the ten fortune -- points put to him during contributions by opposition members during the second-reading The SPEAKER -Order! The Minister's time has debate. He certainly referred to a difference between expired. the coalition and the government on the subject of cat registrations; the government wants a As the required statement of intention has been compulsory annual registration whereas the made pursuant to section 85(5)(c) of the Constitution coalition wants a voluntary identification scheme. Act 1975, I am of the opinion that the second-reading of this Bill is required to be passed by an absolute Quite some work needs to be done on the majority. As there are fewer than 45 members amendments before we proceed further. The present, I ask the Clerk to ring the bells. Committee should be on solid ground before amendments are considered. I am somewhat Bells rung. reluctant to continue the Committee stage because of the complexity of the 80 amendments proposed by Members having assembled in Chamber: the government, although many are consequential.

The SPEAKER - Order! The question is: However, there are significant matters for consideration in the Committee stage. I am That this Bill be now read a second time. concerned that mistakes could be made while going hastily through that stage.l therefore desire to move: As there are some voices for the Noes, I ask honourable members who support the Bill to stand That progress be reported. in their places. The ACTING CHAIRMAN (Mr Oelzoppo) - Required number of members having risen: Order! I am advised that the honourable member may not move a motion as he has spoken to the Motion agreed to by absolute majority. amendment. The honourable member has exercised his right to speak. Read second time. Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and Committed. Agriculture) - I wish to comment on that proposition. The opposition parties have had the Committee amendments --

Clause 1 Or Napthine - I have not!

Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and Mr BAKER - The opposition parties have had Agriculture) - I move: the amendments as they have been coming and, if they are prepared to be honest, have been fully 1. Clause 1, line 8, omit "and agistment". briefed on my recommendations. The government COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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has been more than open on this matter. The Cunningham, Mr Rowe, Mr opposition has had plenty of time to consider these Dollis,Mr Sandon, Mr issues. Emst,Mr Seitz, Mr Fordham, Mr Sercombe, Mr The opposition has also claimed repeatedly during Garbutt, Mrs (Teller) Setches, Mrs the debate that it has consulted widely with these Gavin, Mr Sheehan, Mr A. J. groups. If that is true the coalition parties will be Hamilton, Mr Sheehan, Mr F. P. familiar with the concerns and grievances raised by Harrowfield, Mr Shell, Mr the groups to which I referred. Hill,Mrs Simmonds, Mr Hirsh, Mrs Spyker, Mr Or NAPTHINE (Portland) - I move: Jolly, Mr Thomson,Mr Kennan, Mr Trezise, Mr That progress be reported. Kennedy,Mr Vaughan,Dr Kimer, Ms Walsh,Mr The ACTING CHAIRMAN - Order! The Leighton, Mr Wilson,Mrs question is that the motion be agreed to. Motion negatived. Mr COOPER (Momington) - I wish to speak on the motion. Dr NAPTHINE (Portland) - The amendment deletes the words "and agistment" from clause l(c) The ACTING CHAIRMAN - Order! The of the Bill. That is the first reference to the provisions honourable member may not speak on the motion relating to horses. Agistment applies specifically to that progress be reported; the motion must be put the horse industry where horses are placed in forthwith. paddocks on farms for rest, for housing or for specific purposes. This the first indication that Committee divided on motion: reference to horses will be deleted from the Bill.

Ayes, 39 The coalition welcomes that change. During the Austin, Mr McGrath, Mr W. D. second-reading debate the coalition said that the Bill Bildstien, Mr McNamara, Mr was in line with the primary recommendation of the Brown, Mr Maclellan, Mr report of the Social Development Committee on its Clark, Mr (Teller) Maughan, Mr inquiry into the role and welfare of companion Coleman, Mr Napthine, Or animals in society, which states: Cooper, Mr Perrin, Mr Delzoppo, Mr Perton, Mr That companion animals legislation be developed to Elder, Mr Pescott, Mr cover the keeping of dogs, cats and horses and the Evans, Mr Reynolds, Mr regulation of companion animal businesses; such Gude,Mr Richardson, Mr legislation to involve two separate acts: a 'Companion Hayward, Mr Smith, Mr E.R. Animals Act' and a 'Horse Act'. Heffeman, Mr Smith, Mr I. W. Honeywood, Mr Steggall, Mr The government changed its mind after the coalition Jasper, Mr Stockdale, Mr made it clear that it would not tolerate a Companion John,Mr Tanner, Mr Animals Bill that included horses and treated them Kilgour, Mr (Teller) Wade, Mrs as quasi cats or dogs. Lea,Mr Wallace, Mr Leigh, Mr Weideman, Mr A week later the Minister has agreed that horses Liebennan, Mr Wells, Dr should be treated differently. This amendment is the McGrath, Mr J. F. first recognition of that. While the Minister has been Noes, 44 dragged into that position, the coalition welcomes Andrianopoulos, Mr McCutcheon, Mr that change and hopes the Minister will recognise Baker, Mr McDonald, Mr and give due consideration while the Bill is between Barker, Mrs Mathews,Mr here and another place to the other positions taken Batchelor, Mr Micallef, Mr by the opposition on voluntary identification and Cain,Mr Pope, Mr powers of councils with respect to cats. Cole, Mr (Teller) Ray,Mrs Crabb, Mr Roper, Mr COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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There are 80 amendments. The Minister has said the Social Development Committee's concept of what a opposition has had the amendments for some time. companion animals Bill should be and from what That is not true. A week ago the opposition received this Bill does. In the second-reading debate the a document which contained 53 amendments. It is Minister asked whether the coalition supported the important to understand that what was presented to conclusions of the Social Development Committee. the opposition is somewhat different from what has The difference is Significant. Clause 1 of the Bill been presented tonight. It will be a difficult task for refers to registration, regulation and the payment of the opposition to deal with the amendments. It will a proportion of the fees to administer the fund. That be a slow process to ensure that the amendments is a punitive approach to animal welfare. meet the requirements and that we do not create more confusion. Recommendation 4 of the Social Development Committee is: The coalition welcomes the Minister's change of heart, somewhat forced upon him by the stance That the objectives of the proposed companion animals taken by the coalition in response to the strong and legislation be: effective representations from all sections of the to promote responsible ownership of companion horse industry that recognise there is a need for animals; special and separate legislation to deal with horses. The coalition has demonstrated once again that it to promote and protect the welfare of companion has been able to respond positively to the animals; community's desire to have horses excluded from to reduce the overbreeding of companion animals; the Bill and dealt with in separate legislation. The amendment to the clause is one part of that process. to reduce the financial and physical pressures on animal pounds and shelter services; Amendment agreed to. to encourage the development of an accessible network of animal shelters and services; Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and Agriculture) - I move: to reduce situations where companion animals are causing nuisance to humans or animals and to 2. Clause I, line 10, after "(d)" insert lithe promotion of provide effective ways to redress such situations; the welfare of companion animals through". and Mr W. D. McGRATH (Low an) - Will the to improve the standards of companion animal Minister explain what he means by "the promotion businesses with regard to the welfare of the of the welfare of companion animals"? Is it an animals handled. education program, or is the Minister picking up some of the suggestions made by organisations in That is a quite different concept. It is positive and the consultation process? The coalition has been forward-looking rather than the regulatory, stressing the importance of education for young punitive, negative approach that is proposed in the owners of companion animals. If it is an education purposes of the Bill. The purposes clause is one program, will the Minister explain how that reason the coalition has Significant problems in program will be put into practice? relating the Bill to the report of the Social Development Committee. In addition to examining Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and how many of the BO-odd recommendations the Agriculture) - It was always the intention of the government adopted, the main concept missing government that education programs would play a from the Bill is a positive, forward-looking major role in the way the Bill was given effect. It was approach. The Bill is based on the concept of brought to my attention that it was not spelt out regulatory, punitive measures, and that is one specifically in a way that satisfied animal welfare reason the government is facing problems in selling groups, parties to the Bill and the opposition. the Bill to the community.

What the honourable member has put is correct, and In the second-reading debate I gave the Minister I have no quibble with it. That is the intention of the credit for tackling this tough issue. I also gave credit government. to his departmental officers for the job they have done. The Minister did the right thing in introducing Dr NAPTHINE (Portland) - It is important to the Bill at the end of the spring sessional period last see what clause 1 is about. It is different from the year. Over the past couple of months comment on COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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the Bill has been loud and strong. The Minister must Mr COLEMAN - The government has now listen to what the community is saying; the promoted the proposed legislation as a means of government must change its tack and re-examine addressing the feral and wild animals issue. how the Bill should proceed. The government Honourable members who read the Age may have cannot tidy up the Bill with sticking plaster and observed a recent series of profiles by John Leahy. bandaid approaches; its decision to introduce 80 One article was on a fellow from Omeo with the amendments is fraught with danger. graphic name of ''Dogger''.

The Minister should withdraw the Bill now and The CHAIRMAN (Mr Norris) -Order! 1 do not work with the coalition in a bipartisan approach to wish to interrupt the honourable member in full produce a No. 2 Bill that is acceptable to everyone flight-- associated with this issue. Mr COLEMAN -I understand, Sir, we are on Mr COLEMAN (Syndal) - The Minister should the ground! consider the appeal made by the honourable member for Portland because the purposes of the The CHAIRMAN - Clause 1, the purposes Bill will place an impost on people who have an clause, is reasonably narrow, as the honourable interest in the care of their companion animals. The member well knows. 1 am sure he will not indulge in purposes do not come to terms with the way the Bill a second-reading debate. 1 warn him that the Chair has been sold. The Bill has been sold as a measure will be tolerant but this is not the opportunity for a that will address problems created by feral or wild second-reading debate. animals. Although the government has said the Bill will address that problem there is no provision Mr COLEMAN - Thank you, Mr Chairman. The whatsoever in the purposes clause that will assist purposes clause, as you correctly pointed out, the community in that respect. encompasses what the Bill is about. This broad Bill deals with a range of issues on companion animals. The honourable member for Portland has pointed That is the point of my comment. If you are a out that the 80 amendments the Minister proposes to responsible owner and deem the animal under your introduce are an attempt to come to terms with the care to be a companion animal, the legislation public comment on the Bill. Before today the catches you up. If you are an irresponsible owner, or opposition had not seen all the amendments. The if you are the type of person to drop the cat over the Bill will impose imposts on people who have back fence and say goodbye, this Bill will contribute demonstrated some capacity to look after their to and not overcome the problem. companion animals but it does not address the feral or wild animal populations which the community The Minister laughs, but he knows full well that the recognises require attention. Bill will only add to, not resolve the problem. Nowhere in the purposes clause is there a mention The honourable member for Portland pointed out of education. There is no mention of the control of that the purposes do not provide for community the feral or wild animal population. There is no education on companion animal issues. People who mention of any of the extensive activities that are are prepared to abide by the existing legislation will necessary to ensure that people currently be caught up in the net, but a range of people contributing to the problem are picked up by the beyond those are not prepared to enter the proposed legislation. The Bill has a great hole in it. registration process. More importantly, there is a significant population of feral and wild animals The Minister should consider the proposal of the beyond the reach of the Bill. honourable member for Portland that the Bill be withdrawn to allow further discussion before being Mr Baker-You're a bit feral yourself! reintroduced. Honourable members will recall the 1984 Adoption Bill (No. 2) where a bipartisan Mr COLEMAN - The Minister says that I'm a approach was taken on many issues. At the end of bit feral. He came out of Western Australia with his the day the Bill was acceptable to everyone. tail well and truly tucked between his legs. This Bill was the opportunity for the government to Honourable members interjecting. implement the recommendations of one of Parliament's committees but it has not done so. The government has tried to distort the COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

598 ASSEMBLY Tuesday. 7 April 1992 recommendations of the committee and to wrong way. About twelve months ago the incorporate them in a Bill that does not axiomatically government began an education campaign. It follow the committee's recommendations. Therefore produced a video on the care of horses and all it has a serious fault in it. honourable members were sent brochures and so on.

After a Parliamentary committee inquires into an Amendment agreed to. issue, makes recommendations and presents a report to Parliament, one would expect that a Bill arising The CHAIRMAN - Order! I direct the attention out of the committee's recommendations would be of the honourable member for Mornington to the accepted by all parties. In this case, the Bill cannot be question before the Committee. The debate is accepted because the government has not picked up reasonably narrow; basically it boils down to the fact the recommendations. that the words contained in clause 1 accurately reflect the purposes of the Bill. I remind the I note the presence of the honourable member for honourable member that the question is that Box Hill in the Chamber. She has taken a keen clause 1, as amended, stand part of the Bill and that interest in this matter and I am surprised that she this is not an opportunity for him to launch into has not persuaded the government to adopt the another second-reading debate. committee's report. Mr COOPER - I am not trying to do that, but I Mr Baker - Would you have supported it? thank you for your guidance, Mr Chairman. I am referring to clause 1 and I am talking about the Mr CO LE MAN - You were put to the test on punitive aspects of the Bill. I support the remarks horses and you backed out. You were prepared to made by the honourable member for Portland. As I cover horses in the Bill against the recommendation said earlier, the government started on the right of the committee but when put to the test you course, but it seems to have dropped the education backed out. By backing out you demonstrated that campaign and is now simply telling the owners of your heart was not in it. The Minister was prepared companion animals that they must obey or else. to put together a grab-all Bill knowing that it was against the committee's recommendations. He I shall make clear the position of my electorate. The introduced it into the Chamber and hoped for the Bill has engendered more interest than any other best. piece of legislation during the time in which I have been a member of this place. Every honourable The process outlined by the honourable member for member who spoke during the second-reading Portland should be adopted. There should be debate made the same point. The Bill is of bipartisan consideration of the issues and a structure tremendous community interest and honourable should be put in place to enable all parties to members have heard that almost 80 per cent of the contribute. The result of such a process would be a community own companion animals. Bill that all parties could support. We should not have to go through the ridiculous process of seeing The government has indicated that it will propose 80 amendments moved by the government. That 80 amendments to the Bill but only 57 of them have will not resolve the issue effectively. been seen by the opposition spokesperson. If the government wants genuine consultation with the Mr COOPER (Mornington) - I support the community it will allow the opposition to consult remarks made by the honourable member for with the people who have made complaints and Portland. Honourable members are seeing the suggestions about the Bill. If that plea is ignored the old-fashioned approach that was used for many community can only assume that the government years in town planning legislation. I refer to the will ride roughshod over its concerns. punitive approach and the use of punishments to make people take certain action. I thought those The Minister should report progress so members of days were gone; I thought the government would the opposition can consult with people in their understand that this matter should be approached electorates about the massive number of by using education rather than regulation and amendments to be proposed. The Committee is punitive measures. about to get clause lout of the way, but the remainder of the amendments should be subject to During the second-reading debate I said the community scrutiny. If that plea is ignored I will tell government had approached the matter in the my electorate that the government is not the COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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slightest bit interested in what the community progress to be reported in the first place. It is thinks. I suggest that most honourable members disappointing that the government did not support could make similar points to their electorates. that suggestion because problems such as these would have been ironed out if that had been the Amended clause agreed to. case. Members of the coalition are groping in the dark with regard to the amendments, and the fact Clause 2 that the Minister must seek advice shows that he is also not sure what they mean. Or NAPTHINE (Portland) - I ask the Minister to explain why the Bill is to be proclaimed on "a day or I suggest that the Minister moves that the words "or days". The Minister should indicate what parts of days" be deleted from clause 2. If the Minister wants the Bill he intends to proclaim at different stages. to move an amendment along those lines the The public should be aware of the government's coalition will be happy to accommodate him. intentions regarding the implementation of the Bill. Mr COOPER (Morning ton) - I support the Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and honourable member for Lowan and reiterate for the Agriculture) - The clause applies to the proposition education of the Minister for Food and Agriculture that there should be a universal day on which dogs what the honourable member for Warmambool and cats should be registered. said. Since I have been in Parliament I have seen how the government has been selective in Or Napthine - You are talking about clause 1. proclaiming Acts. On many occasions it has proclaimed parts of individual sections, and has Mr BAKER - I am sorry, that is what I even proclaimed individual sentences. The Minister understand it to mean. The Bill will be proclaimed may say that the coalition is nitpicking, but it is on a day the government decides. directing itself to the experiences it has had at the hands of the government and those experiences Or NAPTHINE (Portland) - The Minister has have not been kind or moral. said the Bill will be proclaimed "on a day the government decides". The Bill refers to "a day or I am delighted to see the honourable member for days". I take it from what the Minister is saying that Reservoir in the Chamber, because when he was a the proclamation of the Bill will not be staged. If that Minister he was a past master at proclaiming only is the case, why does the Minister not amend the Bill parts of a Bill. accordingly? The opposition is not attempting to delay the Mr J. F. McGRATH (Warmambool) - It appears passage of the Bill through the Committee, nor is it that the Minister does not understand the question. nitpicking, but it wants to know that the He has been asked whether the Bill is to be amendments are genuine amendments that will be proclaimed in stages or on a specific date. In the past proclaimed and not merely window-dressing or members of the coalition have proposed lip-service to community groups that have been amendments to exclude the opportunity of a Bill persuaded by the Minister to withdraw their being proclaimed on a number of days because it opposition to certain provisions with the promise of allows the government to proclaim provisions amendments that may not be brought into operation. selectively. The government can exclude parts of the Bill it does not want and proclaim the parts it wants. The opposition needs an unequivocal guarantee from the Minister. Even that may not be sufficient The question being asked of the Minister is whether and it may be necessary in the other place to attach he can advise the Committee what parts of the Bill some conditions to the commencement clause to will be staged in their introduction and what are the ensure that, when the Bill is finally passed - I hope dates of those stages. If the Bill is to be proclaimed in in a bipartisan spirit, but that is proving difficult at its entirety the Minister should advise the the moment - it is proclaimed in its entirety and Committee of that so the appropriate action can be that members of Parliament and the community will taken to amend the legislation. not feel chea ted.

Mr W. o. McGRATH (Lowan) - The ball is now In the past some people in the community have been in the Minister's court. He has taken advice on this cheated by the government and I do not want the matter, and that is why the coalition asked for Minister when replying to the opposition to berate COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

600 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 7 April 1992 it, because the point is raised genuinely and the coalition will not accept this amendment in its Minister should reply in kind. curren t form.

Mr W. O. McGRATH (Lowan) - The Minister Or NAPTHINE (Portland) - This is an important for Food and Agriculture said he would agree to and fundamental issue. It is clear that during the delete "or days" from clause 2. Consequently, I second-reading debate many government members move: were not aware of the proposed amendments that are now being introduced by the Minister. Clause 2, line 2, omit "or days". Mr Chairman, some government members - you Amendment negatived; clause agreed to. were one - said that the Bill would not apply to birds and fish. Other honourable members said that Clause 3 amendments would be introduced to ensure that the Bill would not apply to animals other than dogs and Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and cats and that horses would be omitted from the Bill. Agriculture) - I move: However, now that the amendments are proposed to the Committee it is clear that the government has 3. Clause 3, line 6, before ''In'' insert "(1)". changed course. It is deleting the word "horse" from Amendment agreed to. the Bill but the provisions will still apply to other animals or classes or types of animals prescribed by Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and the regulations to be companion animals. Agriculture) - I move: That leaves it wide open for the government to 4. Clause 3, line 15, omit "87" and insert "90". prescribe guineapigs, snakes, lizards or ferrets. Amendment agreed to. Snakes and ferrets are appropriate animals to use in this context because this is a bit of a Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and snake-in-the-grass act by the Minister who has not Agriculture) - I move: confided to his backbenchers what he is doing. He is telling them one thing and doing another. This 5. Clause 3, line 18, omit ", horse". amendment does not go far enough. In this context Mr W. O. McGRA TH (Lowan) - The coalition is the term companion animals should be defined as disappointed that the Minister is prepared to omit dogs and cats, and that should be the beginning and only the word "horse" from the clause. The end of the definition. definition of companion animal states: As the honourable member for Lowan said, deleting "Companion animal" means any dog, cat, horse or any the word ''horse'' leaves it wide open for horses to be animal of a class or kind which has been prescribed by brought under this Bill by regulation. I would not the regulations to be a companion animal. put it past this government to do exactly that because if pressure is brought to bear by the RSPCA, The coalition believes the definition should read, which said that horses on agistment should not be "any dog or cat" and that is all. If the word "horse" excluded, they might come in through the back door is omitted from the definition the Minister will still in the clauses relating to agistment. That could be have the power by regulation to include horses in done through regulation. the definition. The present Minister may not do it, but a new Minister may. The Minister was in agreement with the position put strongly by the coalition in response to the The argument has been going on for some time. The overwhelming point of view of the horse community Minister has accepted in good faith the coalition's that horses do not belong in this Bill and there pOSition that it did not want horses included in the should be no opportunity for horses to be included definition clause, but when this amendment is in this Bill through the back door. The back door introduced the coalition finds that the Minister is should be closed and it should be made clear that backing down on his agreement. Who is to say that a horses do not belong in this Bill. They should not be new Minister for Food and Agriculture will not introduced into a Bill through regulation, which the include horses in the provisions of the Act? The amendment suggests could still be done. coalition has indicated over the past month that separate legislation should cover horses. The COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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Similarly, the definition should not allow the The CHAIRMAN (Mr Norris) - Order! The Minister to declare other animals companion honourable member should not draw the Chair into animals because it is clear that is not what the the debate. community wants. That is not what government members want and it is not what members on this Mr COOPER - I think the Chair probably drew side of the Chamber want. In the second-reading himself into it, but I shall not concentrate on that. debate coalition members said they were Many members of the government backbench had representing their communities and they said that apparently received a verbal assurance - maybe in the Bill should not apply to birds, fish and so on. caucus - that the Bill would be amended to deal only with dogs and cats, so they stood up here in The only way to clarify that is for the Minister to good faith and made statements. Now they have redraft the amendment to ensure companion made another statement, because if you look to your animals means only dogs and cats; otherwise we right, Mr Chairman, you will see that backbench will have difficulties in trying to ensure that the members are not here. The two or three of them who provisions are adequate or do not inadvertently were here when debate on this clause started have create problems for owners of snakes, lizards, left. I suggest they have walked out in disgust at this ferrets, guinea pigs, goldfish, canaries, budgerigars Minister. and all manner of other animals that may in the government's opinion be considered companion I refer to what I said on clause 2: that this animals. government has a track record of not being able to be trusted. Here is a good example of why the We then come to the situation that applies in government cannot be trusted. Assurances were clause 6, and I shall speak on it again when we given publicly and in this Chamber by the Minister debate that clause. If all manner of animals are tha t horses would not be subject to this Bill, and now declared to be companion animals a local cooodl we see that that is not so. may decide to register them so that local cooodls may be involved in the registration of goldfish. That How far does the definition of companion animals would be absolutely ridiculous, so the position must go? The honourable member for Portland has be made clear instead of being left open, as it now is. mentioned snakes, and that may be a bit of a joke, The Minister should admit there is an error and although some people do keep snakes as pets. Other clearly specify that the term "companion animals" people keep guineapigs, rabbits, cockatoos and relates only to dogs and cats, and that should be the hamsters. I wonder whether at some stage they will end of the definition. be declared to be companion animals. It is the nanny mentality of the socialists that is coming out here. It Mr COOPER (Morning ton) - This amendment is is the cradle-to-grave type of approach. The a sell-out of members of the equestrian community government is going to control us and everything of this State, who have been assured by the Minister we do from the time we are born until the time we in public statements that horses will not be the die - that is obvious in this definition - not only subject of this Bill. As the honourable member for the things we do but also the companion animals we Lowan said, it clearly leaves an escape hatch for the have. That is what this government seems to be on Minister or his successor to come along and drag about. horses back into the proviSions of this Bill. That is totally ooacceptable to me and it is totally I suggest the Minister has been unmasked. He ooacceptable to every member of this Chamber who should stand up and apologise to this Chamber and has received assurances and public statements from to the people of Victoria for misleading them. The the Minister that horses would not be subject to this Minister may smile but he has misled the people of Bill. Victoria in the statements he has made. Even worse, he has misled his own backbench members. They As the honourable member for Portland said, it is a might come and get him. That is if the Premier does sell-out of the Minister's own backbenchers because not get him beforehand because he has been they stood up one after the other and said that dogs white-anting her. and cats would be the only animals subject to this Bill. Some prominent members of the backbench, The Minister recognises that he is presiding over a including you, Mr Chairman, and the honourable shambles. He does not know what is going on with member for Bundoora, spoke on this issue. his own Bill. The time has come for progress to be reported so that the Minister can go away and COMPANION ANIMALS BILL

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discover what it is he is presiding over. Then he can claims it cannot act because the gloss is come back and explain it to us. If he does not do that manufactured in Queensland so the Queensland he will have more egg on his face than he has govemment will have to be asked to investigate this already and he will look an even bigger fool at the issue of major importance! end of the Committee stage than he does at the moment. Horses cannot by any stretch of the imagination be classified as companion animals. Nevertheless one Mr BROWN (Gippsland West) - I enter the thing that can be said with confidence about a debate because of my concem about horses being govemment that has brought on for debate a Bill of included in the Bill. There are many owners of such moment while the State is financially falling horses in my electorate; in short, horses are big apart is that it cannot be trusted - which is why it is business in my electorate. People I know who work rightly called the guilty party. in the industry, including those who run riding schools, treat horses with the respect they deserve. Undertakings given in the past have not been and My family owns five horses, and my daughter will not be honoured. Although a Minister of the shows them. Although horses cannot be classed as Crown, temporary though he is, says he agrees with companion animals, they need a great deal of care what many people in the community say should be and attention. changed - and the coalition is not prepared to support a Bill that defines horses as companion The govemment is attempting to include horses in animals - we now know he cannot be trusted. the Bill, or is attempting to reinclude horses after giving an undertaking to delete from the Bill those Whatever else happens while the Bill is between provisions relating to them, yet it is unable to police here and the other place the coalition will need to be existing laws relating to their treatment and care. assured beyond doubt that horses will be removed from the legislation in every respect, as the Minister Recently I directed to the attention of the Minister has said will be the case. More than words will be for Consumer Affairs in another place the purchase needed, because even if the amendment is agreed to by my wife of a can of Blue Ribbon Lustre Gloss, horses can be reincluded simply by two Ministers of which people who show horses, dogs and other the Crown sitting down as the Govemor in Council animals such as goats spray on the coats of their and making the necessary regulation. animals before they enter the show ring. As I said, my wife purchased the gloss and my daughter -- I have highlighted the fact that a fraudulent product remains on the market although the govemment The CHAIRMAN - Order! The story is knows about it. Although the label claims the can extremely interesting, but I am finding it difficult to and its contents weigh 300 grams net, when the relate it to the amendment before the Committee. fraudulent label is peeled away the revealed can of Black and Gold deodorant spray is said to weigh 250 Mr BROWN - My point is related to the grams. If the govemment cannot use existing laws to inclusion of horses in the Bill, because until all the rectify so simple a problem, there is no hope for amendments are agreed to, that remains the case. horses under the Bill as it stands!

If the govemment cannot control the sale of Mr COLEMAN (Syndal) - This amendment, products such as Blue Ribbon Lustre Gloss, which which I describe as a deceit-and-deception sells for $10.95 - and when the label was removed amendment, goes to the heart of the Bill. When the the can was found to be Black and Gold deodorant Minister for Food and Agriculture invited public spray, which you can buy in the supennarket for debate - albeit limited debate - on the Companion $2.99, which is a rip-off of major proportions -- Animals Bill the Minister picked up comments of the Deputy Leader of the National Party that appeared The CHAIRMAN - Order! I agree with the in the Weekly Times and committed his govemment honourable member for Gippsland West, but I am to confining the Bill to cats and dogs. still finding it difficult to relate his remarks to the amendment before the Committee. The amendment is proof that the commitment given by the Minister in the press has been broken. The Mr BROWN - I am concemed that products Minister has breezed his way through caucus, such as this continue to be sold, despite the through his department and through the public govemment's knowledge about it. The govemment debate by saying that the Bill will address all the ADJOURNMENT

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issues associated with companion animals, yet he is ADJOURNMENT not prepared to honour commitments he has given. The SPEAKER - Order! The question is: The Minister has been caught out by his propensity to use the press, because he is on the record as That the House do now adjourn. saying that the Companion Animals Bill will be confined to cats and dogs. Spina bifida case

Many other animals besides cats and dogs can be Mr CLARK (Balwyn) - I raise a matter with the considered to be companion animals. As drafted - Minister at the table - the Minister for and I understand the necessary regulations are yet to Employment, Post-Secondary Education and be made - clause 3 defines a companion animal as Training - for the attention of the Minister for any dog, cat, horse or any animal of a class or kind Health in another place. It relates to an article that tha t has been prescribed by the regula tions to be a appeared in the Victorian Baptist Witness newspaper companion animal. I ask the Minister to explain to in December last year concerning a child suffering the Committee the meaning of the words from spina bifida. An edited version of the same "prescribed by the regulations". As the Bill reads, article also appeared in the News Weekly magazine the regulations will have to be in place on the day of on 29 February. the proclamation of the Act, which is simply unachievable. I expect that some honourable members will want to discount what is contained in the article because That aside, I repeat that the Minister is on the public copies of it have been circulated to us by the Right to record as saying that the Bill will be confined to cats Life movement. However it seems to me that the and dogs, despite the fact that the amendments he words of that article speak for themselves. I am has moved will not achieve that purpose. That is of greatly disturbed by the article. I made contact with significance to members on this side of the House. the author of the article in the Victorian Baptist The Minister led members of the public to believe Witness and through him I visited the couple that horses would not be included within the ambit referred to in the article and met their daughter, of the Bill; but the public will now realise they have Natasha. She is a bright and articulate child of just been deceived by the Minister's statement. The over three years of age. Apart from the fact that she public will now carefully watch what the Minister lacks control and sensation in the lower part of her says - for as long as he remains in the portfolio. body, she is as happy, lively and healthy as any other child of her age and a source of joy to her I am sure the Minister for Food and Agriculture can parents. hear the march of feet behind him as government members line up to knock him off. However, the pain that her parents have suffered is manifest, as is their passionate desire to ensure that It is instructive that those on the government side no other parents ever suffer similar pain in the who have sat in this Chamber and listened to the future. The parents struck me as being a very honest debate tonight are not supporters of the Minister for and sincere couple. Food and Agriculture, and they are watching his performance on this Bill. Natasha was born by caesarean section at St George's Hospital, Kew, on Sunday, 2 April, 1989. The CHAIRMAN - Order! The time appointed She was transferred that afternoon to the Royal under Sessional Orders for me to report progress has Children's Hospital. She had quite severe spina now arrived. The honourable member may continue bifida, commencing at the TB level in the thoracic his remarks when this matter is next before the section of her spine. Chair. The paediatrician who counselled the parents at the Progress reported. Royal Children's Hospital is a Dr Peter Loughnan. According to the parents, from the start The SPEAKER - Order! The time appointed by Dr Loughnan counselled them to let their daughter Sessional Orders for me to interrupt business has die. He told them that, if they did not agree, the now arrived. baby would require twenty operations by the time she was five years old. He told them she would have "no possibility of quality, joy and love" in her life. ADJOURNMENT

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He advised the parents against visiting the spina excess fluid from the brain. She has undergone only bifida unit to see how children under treatment got one other operation to date to correct some tendons on, saying the unit would not like parents "coming in her foot, and one further operation will be in and looking". He also told them that if they did necessary when she is six or seven years old. Her not let their baby die she would grow up hating treatment has now been transferred to the Monash them for having kept her alive and that many Medical Centre and her parents are very pleased couples who elect to treat their child find their with the treatment she is receiving there. marriages break up. Of course many of these matters are only allegations The parents say that they were subjected to the at this stage but they are matters of a most serious constant pressure of this sort of counselling for some nature. If it is true it means that the doctor time and under that pressure they agreed on the concerned has counselled parents in a biased, Friday afternoon after Natasha's birth to oppressive and dishonest manner to agree to a Or Loughnan's advice to '1et her go". course of action that would inevitably result in the death of their daughter. However, when the father visited the child on the afternoon of the following Monday, he noticed from It is important that until this matter is resolved her charts that she was placed on demand feeding parents of other spina bifida babies are fully aware and had been offered no milk since 6 a.m. that day, of the experiences that Natasha's parents relate in when she had taken a few sips. He also found out case they should ever find themselves being given that Natasha had been dosed with very high levels the same advice by the same doctor. of the sedative phenobarbitone, initially 50 milligrams every 12 hours and later 30 milligrams I have written to the Minister on this matter and every 6 hours. The father attempted to feed Natasha have received nothing but a standard form letter of himself but found she was too drowsy to take food. acknowledgment in response. I reiterate my request to the Minister for Health to ensure that the matters I He says that when he confronted Or Loughnan have raised are fully investigated by a capable and about how the child was expected to demand feed impartial person or body and, if found to be correct, when she was so heavily sedated by the drug, the to ensure that appropriate action is taken. doctor replied, ''You agreed to it". The father was appalled because he and his wife had agreed to no Natasha's parents are willing and, indeed, anxious such thing. to do everything possible to assist such an investigation to ensure that no parent and no child is Or Loughnan then discontinued the sedative ever again put at risk of suffering the trauma which treatment. The parents expected this would enable was suffered by them and their daughter. their child to resume feeding, but it did not because phenobarbitone is a long-acting drug. When the Stock market reporting service parents came to the hospital on the Wednesday they found that their daughter had not urinated for three Mr KILGOUR (Shepparton) - The matter I raise days and had barely dnmk anything for four to five for the attention of the Minister for Food and days. She was grey in complexion and bitterly cold Agriculture, through the Minister for Employment, to the touch. Post-Secondary Education and Training who is at the table, concerns the stock market reporting They say they finally realised then that if they did service, which provided stock market information not act their daughter would die, not from spina throughout country areas. This is very important bifida but from lack of food and liquids. They because farmers throughout Victoria used the begged a social worker at the hospital to let them see service not only to find out what their stock was another doctor. Eventually they saw a Or Campbell, worth at market but also to find out when they who agreed to treat the child. Natasha was placed in should take their stock to market to get the best a humidicrib and fed through the nose. She revived possible price. well and subsequently underwent two operations by a Or Rosenfeld, for whom the parents have nothing Farmers were able to listen to the ABC or their local but praise. radio station or watch the local television news and receive reports from the Department of Food and The operations closed Natasha's back and inserted a Agriculture's stock market reporting service and shunt, or valve, at the base of her skull to drain ADJOURNMENT

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obtain all the latest information on stock market Offshore investment by Australian prices. companies

However, because the agriculture department is Mr THOMSON (Pascoe Vale) - I direct a matter charging the radio and television stations for that for the attention of the Attorney-General, through service the availability of the information it the Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary provided has dropped and there is now only a small Education and Training, who is at the table. I invite service on the ABC. Basically commercial areas have the Attorney-General to investigate the contents of stopped stock market reporting services. an article by chartered accountants Pannell Kerr Forster in their Current Affairs business publication We even have the situation now where the local of January this year, which I shall provide to him. community radio station Shepparton One FM, The advice appears in an article by Arthur Roe, which is operated by volunteers and not run international taxation partner, which is entitled commercially, is being charged $25 for the service, "Low Tax Asian Countries Lure Australian Firms". and obviously it cannot afford it. The article describes ways in which Australian It is quite understandable that commercial stations companies can establish manufacturing operations would drop the service but we were hoping that in Asia for the purpose of exporting back to One FM in Shepparton and other stations operating Australia, and provides advice as to how Asian in the area on a non-commercial basis would be able offshore investment can be structured to avoid to take this up as an important service to farmers. incurring taxes in either Asia or Australia. Such an However, this has not been able to be done. arrangement requires investigation and appropriate Obviously the stations that are operated by discussions through the Standing Committee of volunteers and do not receive money on a Attorneys-General and the Australian government. commercial basis cannot afford to run this service. As a result farmers are missing out on the The article pays particular attention to Malaysia and opportunity to find out what the situation is for Singapore and suggests that the Australian stock sales. government's controlled foreign companies legislation, which is designed to prevent Australian A number of people, including the farming companies from sheltering foreign income in low tax community and the Victorian Farmers Federation, regimes, has loopholes in it. The article suggests that have contacted me and asked what can be done. I offshore taxes can be avoided and, even where the have also been in touch with members of the profits should be taxed on distribution to the saleyards management committees who have ultimate shareholders, that there are ways that that offered, I believe, to obtain this service and make it can be avoided also. available, along with the agriculture department, at a greatly reduced price compared with the price at Some businesses distribute essentially Australian which the department provides it at present. source profits, which benefit from the imputation provisions while retaining some or all of the offshore Country people are being disadvantaged because of profits for further investment in the foreign-based the lack of this service. If the managers of the business. The shareholders' private investment saleyards throughout country Victoria are able to companies take up the direct interest of 10 per cent obtain the information on stock prices and funnel it of the offshore company, as opposed to one overall through a central office or the agriculture holding company taking up such investment. department, the radio and television networks can Through this medium, the private investment be advised of the prices and broadcast them so that companies still benefit from the tax exemption on the farming community knows the very latest prices the foreign dividend income but are free to invest and can ascertain whether to send stock to market. the funds directly for the benefit of their shareholders. It is an important issue for the farming community in country Victoria and I ask the Minister to look The article concludes that businesses should look at into the situation. all available avenues for cost savings, and Australian companies can establish operations in Asia that produce massive cost and efficiency savings at all levels. ADJOURNMENT

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The idea of encouraging Australian companies to The Hon. P. D. Block - Are we to understand that move their activities offshore to benefit from Asian longstanding arrangements that are not contrived to tax incentives is inherently damaging to the best avoid tax will be allowed to stand? interests of Australia and it is un-Australian. It should be investigated as a matter of priority and The Hon. D. R. WHITE - That is my understanding. action should be taken to close any existing loopholes. That undertaking is explicit. It was expressly given on behalf of the Treasurer and therefore, of course, Viking Equipment (Australia) Pty Ltd on behalf of the government. It was specifically applied to direct sellers amongst others. It made it Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - I raise a matter clear that section 3C would not be applied to direct for the attention of the Treasurer. It concerns an sellers. issue relating to the application of payroll tax to direct selling agents. I refer to a matter between the The position is that Viking Equipment (Australia) Commissioner of Pay-roll Tax and a company called Pty Ltd is clearly a direct selling agency. It is not Viking Equipment (Australia) Pty Ltd. Viking is a engaged in any contrived arrangement. Indeed, it direct selling company that sells high pressure had been engaged in its method of operation, direct cleaners known as Gerni water blasters via selling, for many years prior to the introduction of independent contractors. Presently the section 3C. It follows that it cannot possibly be a Commissioner of Pay-roll Tax is claiming some contrived arrangement directed at avoiding that $137150 as arrears of payroll tax. provision. Its operations are longstanding and they are adopted for commercial and legitimate The relevance of raising the matter is that when the marketing reasons, having nothing to do with tax provisions concerning the deemed extension of avoidance. Before section 3C came into force there payroll tax to contractors were introduced in 1983, as had never been any question that it would be subject honourable members will recall, a substantial issue to payroll tax, according to the provisions of the law. arose as to the application of those deeming On advice given to me, the Commissioner of Pay-roll provisions to, amongst others, commission agents Tax has refused to acknowledge the application of and independent selling agents. section 3C on the basis of the undertaking given in 1983 for the sort of arrangement in this case and is In the course of debate on the Bill on 29 November seeking to draw a distinction - which appears to be 1983, the Minister for Manufacturing and Industry a distinction without a difference - between people Development, then the Minister for Minerals and marketing goods for the purpose of personal use, Energy, gave a clear and unequivocal undertaking compared with the sort of arrangement in which on behalf of the Treasurer of the State of Victoria that Gerni water blasters are sold by direct agents. the section would not be applied to direct sellers. The undertaking appears in the Hansard record of Grave concern is being expressed by people in the the Legislative Council of 29 November 1983, at area, including many people operating in similar page 1300. Mr White was dealing with the Bill in his businesses to Viking, that the government is not capacity as representative of the Treasurer, and the honouring the commitment made in 1983. following exchange took place: I remind the Treasurer that the matter has been the The Hon. D. R. White (Minister for Minerals and subject of considerable controversy on a number of Energy) - In response to Mr Block who sought an occasions. Indeed, undertakings were given on a assurance, I provide an undertaking to the Committee subsequent occasion when the issue was raised. I ask on behalf of the Treasurer that proposed section 3C is that the matter be considered urgently. not intended to capture owner-drivers generally. This was to be dealt with under proposed section 3D. The Non-government community service only circumstance where proposed section 3C could agencies apply is if there were a contrived sub-<:ontracting arrangement to avoid pay-roll tax. The same applies to Mrs RAY (Box Hill) - The matter I raise for the direct sellers, insurance commissioners and courier attention of the Minister for Community Services drivers. relates to funding of non-government agencies that provide services for young people and children at risk of harm. The non-government agencies funded by Community Services Victoria to do this kind of ADJOURNMENT

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work include many agencies auspiced by the The Peninsula Gateway advertisement under the various churches, Wesley Central Mission, the name of Oliver Hume states: Mission to Streets and Lanes, the Mission of St James and St John, and other Uniting Church agencies like Just across the way from Mt Eliza, ''Peninsula Orana, now located and operating in Gateway" is a fabulous new estate destined to rival that Broadmeadows. prestigious village. Close to fine bayside beaches, yet with a distinctively rural ambience, this estate will The types of services these agencies have provided undoubtedly become the place to live on the peninsula. in the past and continue to provide include family group homes for children in out-of-home For a start, a covenant on the estate strictly prohibits arrangements, foster care and hostels. More recently, dwellings smaller than 150 square metres from they have provided services such as the Family First lowering the tone of the estate and naturally the value program that has been funded. The purpose of this of your new home. program is to provide intensive in-home support so that the child will not have to be removed from the It goes on to say that it is a wonderful area and has parents or family. something for young and old alike. It is close to the new Frankston freeway and is "the place to live" Late last year, the non-government agencies were near Frankston. The developer sold the blocks at involved in a campaign to request from the about $loo OOO each. When people looked at the government lOO per cent funding for the services plans of the development adjacent to Peninsula they provide on behalf of the government. The Gateway they learned that the government wanted situation came about as a result of the agencies' that area to be high density. The government is declining ability to meet the gap in the funding that planning to have not 80 but lOO blocks. That has had historically been 80 per cent from the caused some concern to the local residents who have government and 20 per cent from their own agencies. paid $loo 000 a block and are now faced with high density planning requirements. As a result of the campaign, the Minister for Community Services and the Premier agreed to give Representatives of the council and I have attended a some consideration to the government's capacity to public meeting. The Frankston City Council is take up the additional financial responsibility and planning a high density housing estate of meet the gap, owing to the increased demand for the approximately 800 homes on the south-east side of services in times of economic hardship and difficulty Peninsula Gateway, with connecting roads to and, indeed, in recognition of the high quality and Woodside Avenue and Sheoak Road. The other two longstanding work of the agencies. access roads at Frankston-Flinders Road and Stotts Lane will not be adequate for the 7000-plus cars of At the time a decision was made to implement 100 residents in this new estate. per cent funding from 1 July 1992 but at the same time in recognition of the difficulties of the agencies Mr Roper interjected. it was agreed to set up a $1 million emergency ftmd on which those agencies could draw if that became Mr WEIDEMAN - The two estates have been necessary. joined. There are more than 800 blocks on the two estates. The number of cars will cause traffic What call has there been on that funding and what problems. response has there been to the agencies that have sought to draw on that emergency funding? The two major issues are the bottlenecks that will be created and the effects on the environment. High density housing Originally the council sought R4 approval, which is five blocks a hectare, and it then sought R3 Mr WEIDEMAN (Franks ton South) - I direct a approval. The Minister said he wanted more than matter to the attention of the Minister for Consumer ten blocks a hectare. The council is happy to have Affairs and partly to the attention of the Minister for five and the developer would be happy with Planning and HOUSing. I refer to the Peninsula something less than 10 blocks a hectare. Gateway project on Hastings Road, Frankston, towards Baxter. That area has always had large Will the Minister examine this matter because blocks of land but the new approach of high density people have been promised these wonderful blocks has changed the area. prestigious blocks. The council has said that it ADJOURNMENT

608 ASSEMBLY Tuesday. 7 April 1992 welcomes low density housing. Will the Minister month they will suffer a licence fee penalty of accept a deputation of people who have lost 20 per $465.54, and in the second and third months they cent to 25 per cent of their land? They would like will be penalised $590.42. They believe that is totally compensation of $20 000 to $30 000 if high density unfair. They have been unable to obtain an extension requirements are forced upon them. They have of time to complete the building of their home. taken up the Peninsula Gateway offer but now certain restrictions will apply with regard to access The couple are operating under the self-build which will create enormous problems. These people program in collaboration with and with the support have come to my area to invest in their future. of the Department of Planning and Housing. Will the Minister allow them an extension of three Self-build program months to enable them to complete their home?

Mr JASPER (Murray Valley) - I direct a matter It is at an advanced stage, but these people should to the attention of the Minister for Planning and not be penalised because of unforeseen Housing and, in his absence, the Minister for circumstances that occurred in the building program Employment, Post-Secondary Education and or because of the lack of support and advice, support Training. A young couple with three children are and advice the Department of Planning and building a house under the self-build program that Housing should have provided. is being promoted and actively sponsored by the Department of Planning and Housing. The young Responses couple, who live in Myrtleford, entered into the self-build program early in 1991. Under the program Mrs SETCHES (Minister for Community people provide their labour as deposit for the Services) - The honourable member for Box Hill building of homes. They enter into partnership raised an issue based on the campaign by agreements with the Ministry as owner-builders. community worker agencies for 100 per cent funding, which was approved by Cabinet. It was The couple were given three months to find a block subsequently communicated to them that funding of land in late 1990. They had some difficulty finding would start from 1 July 1992. The honourable an appropriate block but finally they found one and member particularly referred to my announcement it was accepted and approved by the Ministry. The of an emergency fund of up to $1 million to assist papers were signed in March 1991. During the early the number of non-government agencies that had part of that year the husband organised for the been under pressure because they had insufficient materials to be delivered but there was a lack of revenue from sources other than the government. response from the department. For a number of months the couple heard nothing from the Ministry. Several agencies have advised me that they want to In September and October they received further speak to Community Services Victoria and the information. After they had entered into the Ministry of Finance and have prepared their building program they had a number of setbacks as requests accordingly. I will inquire of my they set about building their house. There were department which of those agencies have made unforeseen circumstances because the husband had applications and which are still in the discussion an accident at work. phase and will report back to her.

They were unable to continue with the building It is a matter of concern to the government that any program as they would have liked not only because agency offering alternative accommodation and care of family circumstances but also because of a lack of services should not be subjected to pressure to give response and assistance from the department which, up the children and should provide a proper level of under the contract, should be prOViding the family care. I will make further inquiries in that area. with regular backup, support and assistance. For the attention of the honourable member I point Under the program the couple had to complete the out that the Children's Welfare Association of building over an eighteen-month period. The Victoria has about 70 paid members under the completion date for the home was 6 April 1992. They alternative accommodation and care budget, 56 of are some months behind in the completion of that whom receive direct funding. There is a good deal of program. The contract provides that if the building scope for agencies to get back to us by 30 June. is not finished by 6 April they will be penalised for every month the house is not completed. In the first ADJOURNMENT

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Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, The honourable member for Balwyn referred to a Post-Secondary Education and Training) - The medical practitioner and seemed to allege honourable member for Murray Valley raised for the malpractice by that practitioner. The honourable attention of the Minister for Planning and Housing member ignored my query on whether he had some building problems experienced by his directed the matter to the attention of the Medical constituents in Myrtleford. I will direct the matter to Board of Victoria. I presume that if such serious the attention of the Minister. allegations have come to the attention of the honourable member, as a responsible person, his The honourable member for Frankston South raised first step would be to take the matter to the Medical an issue concerning property owners who were Board because Parliament has given it Significant protesting against a development on a neighbouring powers to deal with such issues. Indeed the powers subdivision. I must say that people often protest of the board have been increased in recent years. about developments on neighbouring subdivisions, Victoria also has a health complaints commissioner but I will direct the matter to the attention of the as a result of a good deal of all-party work by Minister for Consumer Affairs. members of Parliament, so there are two places where such a complaint could be made. The honourable member for Brighton raised with the Treasurer actions by the Commissioner for If the matter is as serious as is alleged by the Taxation who, as he well knows, represents an honourable member, in the first instance it really is a independent statutory authority. I will direct his matter for the Medical Board. I suggest he should comments to the attention of the Minister. make sure his concerns are certainly taken to the Medical Board of Victoria and/or the health The honourable member for Shepparton raised a complaints commissioner. matter for the Minister for Food and Agriculture, and I will direct it to his attention. House adjourned 11.36 p.m. ADJOURNMENT

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