U.S. and Mexican Counterdrug Efforts Since Certification
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S. HRG. 105±??? U.S. AND MEXICAN COUNTERDRUG EFFORTS SINCE CERTIFICATION JOINT HEARING BEFORE THE SENATE CAUCUS ON INTERNATIONAL NARCOTICS CONTROL AND THE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION OCTOBER 29, 1997 Printed for the use of the Senate Caucus on International Narcotics Control and the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations ( U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 44±791 CC WASHINGTON : 1998 SENATE CAUCUS ON INTERNATIONAL NARCOTICS CONTROL CHARLES GRASSLEY, Iowa, Chairman ALFONSE D'AMATO, New York JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., Delaware FRANK MURKOWSKI, Alaska BOB GRAHAM, Florida JEFFREY SESSIONS, Alabama DIANE FEINSTEIN, California COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS JESSE HELMS, North Carolina, Chairman RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., Delaware PAUL COVERDELL, Georgia PAUL S. SARBANES, Maryland CHUCK HAGEL, Nebraska CHRISTOPHER J. DODD, Connecticut GORDON H. SMITH, Oregon JOHN F. KERRY, Massachusetts CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming CHARLES S. ROBB, Virginia ROD GRAMS, Minnesota RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin JOHN ASHCROFT, Missouri DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California BILL FRIST, Tennessee PAUL D. WELLSTONE, Minnesota SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas JAMES W. NANCE, Staff Director EDWIN K. HALL, Minority Staff Director (II) CONTENTS Page Banks, Samuel H., Acting Commissioner, U.S. Customs Service, Department of Treasury ............................................................................................................ 53 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 55 Davidow, Hon. Jeffrey, Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Af- fairs ....................................................................................................................... 40 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 42 Ferrarone, Donald F., Former Special Agent-in-Charge, Houston Field Divi- sion, Drug Enforcement Administration, U.S. Department of Justice ............ 72 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 75 Godson, Roy, Ph.D., Professor of Government, Georgetown University, Presi- dent, National Strategy Information Center ..................................................... 78 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 80 Kneir, Hon. Thomas, Deputy Assistant Director, Organized Crime and Drug Branch, Federal Bureau of Investigation ........................................................... 58 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 59 McCaffrey, Hon. Barry R., Director, Office of National Drug Control Policy ..... 14 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 21 Milford, James, S., Jr., Acting Deputy Administrator, Drug Enforcement Ad- ministration, U.S. Department of Justice .......................................................... 46 Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 48 APPENDIX Additional Material Submitted for the Record Prepared statement of Senator Russell D. Feingold ...................................... 91 Additional Questions Submitted for the Record to Barry R. McCaffrey, Direc- tor, Office of National Drug Control Policy Questions Submitted by Senator Helms ......................................................... 92 Questions Submitted by Senator Grassley ..................................................... 103 Questions Submitted by Senator Biden .......................................................... 105 Additional Questions Submitted for the Record to Jeffrey Davidow, Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs Questions Submitted by Senator Helms ......................................................... 108 Questions Submitted by Senator Biden .......................................................... 111 Additional Questions Submitted for the Record to James S. Milford, Jr., Acting Deputy Administrator, Drug Enforcement Administration, U.S. De- partment of Justice Questions Submitted by Senator Helms ......................................................... 113 Questions Submitted by Senator Grassley ..................................................... 117 Additional Questions Submitted for the Record to Samuel H. Banks, Acting Commissioner, U.S. Customs Service, Department of Treasury Questions Submitted by Senator Helms ......................................................... 119 Questions Submitted by Senator Grassley ..................................................... 136 Additional Questions Submitted for the Record to Thomas Kneir, Deputy Assistant Director, Organized Crime and Drug Branch, Federal Bureau of Investigation Questions Submitted by Senator Helms ......................................................... 141 Questions Submitted by Senator Grassley ..................................................... 143 (III) U.S. AND MEXICAN COUNTERDRUG EFFORTS SINCE CERTIFICATION WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 1997 SENATE CAUCUS ON INTERNATIONAL NARCOTICS CONTROL AND SENATE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, Washington, DC. The Senate Caucus on International Narcotics Control and the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations met jointly, pursuant to notice, at 2:10 p.m. In room SD±106, Dirksen Senate Office Build- ing, Hon. Paul Coverdell and Hon. Charles E. Grassley, presiding. Present from Foreign Relations Committee: Senators Coverdell, Hagel, Frist, Biden, Dodd, Kerry and Feinstein. Present from Senate Caucus on International Narcotics Control: Senators Grassley, Sessions, and Graham [Senators Biden and Feinstein are members of both the caucus and the committee]. Senator COVERDELL. Ladies and gentlemen, let me bring to order a joint meeting of the Foreign Relations Committee and the Senate Caucus on International Narcotics Control, chaired by Senator Grassley of Iowa. We're both going to make opening statements then turn to our first panel, General McCaffrey, and I'm going to turn to my good colleague, Senator Grassley, for his opening statement. Senator GRASSLEY. First of all, thanks to General McCaffrey and all the other witnesses who are joining Senator Coverdell and me and other members of the Caucus and the committee at this critical hearing. As everyone in this room knows, our growing contact with Mex- ico is one of our mostÐin fact, you might say, the single mostÐ important relationship. And what both of our countries do to deal with the calamity of drug production and use is one of our most important efforts. This hearing is to address concerns about the nature of coopera- tion with Mexico. It follows up on questions raised earlier this year about the extent of that cooperation. Congress raised a number of concerns about the direction as well as the scope of our joint efforts to deal with problems that seem to undermine it. I believe that the Congress made clear its concerns that we not just have more high-level happy talk, but real results. This is one of the reasons that the Congress asked for the detailed report on progress to this point since March. We received that report on September 15. While it contains a lot of information, I believe that we need to hear more about the sub- ject. It is like a lot of government reportsÐit is long on inputs, (1) 2 short on outcomes, and even some of the outcomes are not all that they appear to be. The Congress is in the process of making deci- sions on Mexico in the context of cooperation on drugs. We needÐ the public needsÐmore substance. The report, for example, talks about Operation Success that re- sulted in the seizure of almost 3 tons of cocaine. That is all well and good, but what is not mentioned is that the seizure was of drugs fished out of the water. No one was arrested. No boats were seized. No one knows who was moving the drugs. In short, this was about Operation ``Partial'' Success. The report also talks about working groups, and also, individuals who have been trained. That is very important. But what is left out is how many groups are truly operating, how many arrests there were of key figures, how many extraditions, how many prosecutions of major figures. The report skates over these because the results are not there. Now, I do not want to get into a numbers game or into so-called ``body counts'', but we need to understand something. While we definitely need cooperation to achieve a common purpose, coopera- tion by itself is not a value. It is a means to an end, it is ends that we are concerned about. And the oneÐand one of the ways that we have of knowing if that end is being achieved is through results. If the results are skimpy, then maybe we need to take a long and hard look at the nature of the effort, and I hope that is what we are doing here and going to do here in this hearing. That is the intent of it. I would like to make just one more pointÐthat concerns the cer- tification process. The debate over Mexican cooperation is also a de- bate over this country's right to determine what cooperation looks like. I'm concerned about recent remarks by theÐby our Nation's leaders on a tool that the State Department makes clear is not only working but is critical in ensuring continued cooperation. I am concerned, if reports are to be believed, that our Nation's leaders in the war on drugs have suggested on recent