253 Leave of Absence Friday, October 29, 2010

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Friday, October 29, 2010 The House met at 1.30 p.m. PRAYERS [MR. SPEAKER in the Chair] LEAVE OF ABSENCE Mr. Speaker: Hon. Members, I have received communication from the following Members requesting leave of absence from sittings of the House: Hon. Sen. Carolyn Seepersad-Bachan, Member of Parliament for San Fernando West, from today’s sitting of the House; Hon. Jack Warner, Member of Parliament for Chaguanas West, from today’s sitting of the House and Ms. Joanne Thomas, Member of Parliament for St. Ann’s East, from today’s sitting of the House. The leave which these Members seek is granted.

CONDOLENCES (DAVID HOWARD THOMPSON QC PRIME MINISTER OF BARBADOS) Mr. Speaker: Hon. Members, we have learnt of the sad passing of the Prime Minister of the Commonwealth of Barbados, the hon. David John Howard Thompson, on Saturday, October 23, 2010. I now invite hon. Members to pay tribute. I call on the hon. Prime Minister. The Prime Minister (Hon. Kamla Persad-Bissessar): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The hon. David John Howard Thompson belonged to a new era of Caricom leaders. He was born in 1961, at a time when several Caribbean countries were negotiating political independence. David Thompson was destined to be among the second wave of post- colonial regional leaders. Indeed, he was born in the year that Errol Barrow was made Premier of Barbados. Mr. Barrow was later to become Mr. Thompson’s political mentor. On hindsight, it appears as though Mr. Thompson was nurtured for leadership. He honed his intellectual and public speaking capacities at both primary and secondary schools and, indeed, at the University of the West Indies where we were fellow students together in the Faculty of Law. He did this in his native land and bolstered his self- confidence in social consciousness in succeeding years. Even as a young man, he was respected in political activism, political insight and oratory skill and so it was not surprising that he became a leading light of the youth arm of the Democratic Labour Party. 254 Condolences Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. K. PERSAD-BISSESSAR] Mr. Thompson joined the Cabinet of his country as far back as 1991 and from there he made steady ministerial progress, because of his acclaimed knowledge, commitment to public duty and capacity for hard work. In addition to his ministerial duties, he also served as General Secretary of his party. He served as Opposition Leader, during what has turned out to be a virtual whirlwind political career. He became the sixth Prime Minister of Barbados two years ago at age 46 and he immediately unveiled a vision for meaningful Caribbean unity and effective and sustainable responses to such pressing concerns as drug transshipment, the small arms trade and the cementing of the CSME. David Thompson had begun to emerge as a progressive Caricom leader, a man of the times, a Prime Minister with a purpose. Regrettably, Mr. Thompson was unable to fully deliver on his abundant promise, having been cut down in the prime of life by a deadly disease. Prime Minister Thompson’s premature death is a sad and unjust blow to the Caribbean community, a huge loss to a region affirming its place in a modern, fast, evolving world. All of Trinidad and Tobago mourn the passing of Mr. Thompson. On behalf of the Government and people of Trinidad and Tobago, I extend deepest condolences to the Government and people of Barbados and especially to his wife, Mara, and the children. Also, in my capacity as Chairman of the Office of the Commonwealth, I extend, on behalf of the Commonwealth leaders, our condolences to the Government and people of Barbados and to the family of the hon. David Thompson. We assure them all, that, here, the loss is felt as sharply in Port of Spain as in Bridgetown and comfort them with the fact that Prime Minister Thompson’s work would be his timeless legacy. The region is indeed poorer for the passing of Mr. David Thompson. May I say that I had the opportunity to interact with him on a personal level as colleagues in the law faculty and then in Hugh Wooding Law School. Throughout the time that I have known him, as a colleague, a fellow student and then as a fellow lawyer, he was always a person who distinguished himself in community service and in his care and passion for the people. Indeed, the Government and people of Trinidad and Tobago will be represented at the funeral on Wednesday. May his soul rest in peace. I thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Leader of the Opposition (Dr. Keith Rowley): Mr. Speaker, I rise to associate myself, and those of us on this side, with all the sentiments expressed by the hon. Prime Minister, on behalf of the people of Trinidad and Tobago, on this very sad occasion. Unlike the Prime Minister, I did not have a lot of contact with David Thompson. 255 Condolences Friday, October 29, 2010

My contact has been very brief, but, on those fleeting conversations, one could not have but noticed the quiet strength and gentleness of a man who was supremely confident in his ability. Whenever a young person dies, the pain of death becomes even greater to bear. In the case of David Thompson, he held out such great promise for us in the Caribbean; a promise of providing us with Caribbean leadership of a kind that we have become accustomed to, especially from Barbados, that his death came as a shock. Even though we knew that he was facing serious health challenges, we somehow still held out some hope that there would be some form of recovery. That is why his death is so painful to us here in Trinidad and Tobago and, I am sure, far greater for the people of Barbados. Mr. Thompson had indicated in his short career as Leader of Barbados, even while being Opposition Leader, that he stood for all that Caricom represented and that he was an integrationist. He held out that promise of being a leader who could contribute to the progress of all of us here in the region. Mr. Thompson was a lawyer. We tend to associate lawyers with boisterousness. We tend to associate politicians with aggression. David Thompson was none of that. He was, in fact, a gentleman; a very gentle person, big in stature and strong in spirit. On behalf of all of us on this side, we want to say that we feel the pain of the people of Barbados. We would miss him. We feel as though there was a promise of something great to come from this well prepared gentleman, but, at the end of the day, God knows best. We extend our condolences especially to his immediate family, wife and children, and also to his parents who would be feeling a very special pain of having to put away a child. Parents should not have to bury children, but, when it occurs, the pain is doubly strong.

From us on this side, the PNM and the Opposition and the people of Trinidad and Tobago, we extend our deepest sympathy to the family, the associates, the people of Barbados and the people of the Caribbean who are now poorer for the passing of one of our gentle sons. Thank you. Mr. Patrick Manning (San Fernando West): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I choose to break my parliamentary silence to pay tribute to somebody with whom I have had a very close association, ever since his ascension to the exalted office of Prime Minister of Barbados. I recalled when he was elected to office; the very first country to which he was invited to pay an official visit was, indeed, Trinidad and Tobago. I recalled, in 256 Condolences Friday, October 29, 2010 [MR. MANNING] making preparations for that visit, we held him in such esteem that we thought we would give him the kind of reception the likes of which he will never experience in his life again from any other country. We are certain that we achieved that, even if we did not expect that his experience would have been as short as it has turned out to be. Mr. David Thompson was very easy to get along with. It was very easy. He was very straightforward, not complicated at all; in fact, a pleasure with whom to work. It was always a pleasure for me to be associated with him in the institutions of the Caribbean, where we were closely associated and where we had to discuss a number of issues, in respect of which Barbados held as keen an interest as the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago. I have a special sympathy for him also, seeing that he passed away as a result of his exposure to a bout of cancer. As you know, two years ago, I had an exposure to cancer myself. The matter was dealt with expeditiously and I am pleased to say to Members of this honourable House that I am completely recovered from it and I do not expect that it would reoccur. Mr. Thompson was not similarly circumstanced and, therefore, as he passed I know that it is going to be a great loss, not just to his family and his wife to whom we extend our very sincere condolences, but to the people of Barbados. The people of Barbados will experience, on this occasion, a very great loss and we would like them to know, as my leader has said, that they have the sympathy of the people of the PNM and those on this side of the House and, I am sure, the people of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: I wish to join with hon. Members in expressing my deepest condolences to the wife and daughters of the late Prime Minister of the Commonwealth of Barbados, the hon. David John Howard Thompson. It is very evident, from remarks made here today, that former Prime Minister Thompson was a man of destiny, a man with a vision for his country and his people; a vision which, in spite of serious health challenges, he pursued with a passion. I too share the sentiments expressed by hon. Members on the life and work of this great fallen Caribbean leader. I have, therefore, directed the Clerk of the House to write a letter of condolence to Mrs. Marie- Josephine Mara Thompson and her daughters and include the transcripts of tribute paid to the late Prime Minister by Members of this honourable House. I now invite all Members to stand and observe one minute’s silence in memory of the late David John Thompson. May his soul rest in peace. The House of Representatives stood. 257 Evidence (Amdt.) (No. 2) Bill Friday, October 29, 2010

1.45 p.m. EVIDENCE (AMDT.) (NO. 2) BILL Bill to amend the Evidence Act, Chap. 7:02, brought from the Senate [The Minister of National Security]; read the first time. PAPERS LAID 1 Annual report and audited financial statements of the Regulated Industries Commission for the year ended December 31, 2004. [The Minister of Housing and the Environment (Hon. Dr. Roodal Moonilal)] 2. Annual report and audited financial statements of the Regulated Industries Commission for the year ended December 31, 2005. [Hon. Dr. R. Moonilal] 3. Annual report and audited financial statements of the Regulated Industries Commission for the year ended December 31, 2006. [Hon. Dr. R. Moonilal] Papers 1 to 3 to be referred to the Public Accounts Committee. 4. Annual report for the Telecommunications Authority of Trinidad and Tobago for the fiscal year 2008—2009. [Hon. Dr. R. Moonilal] 5. Report of the Teaching Service Commission for the year 2009. [Hon. Dr. R. Moonilal] 6. Census (2011) Order, 2010. [Hon. Dr. R. Moonilal] STATEMENT BY MINISTER Children’s Life Fund The Prime Minister (Hon. Kamla Persad-Bissessar): Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. Mr. Speaker, we have laid on the Table today the Children’s Life Fund Bill, 2010. You will recall that in the lead up to the 2010 general election, the People's Partnership had pledged that, should it be victorious, amongst other initiatives, we would set up a Special Children’s Life Fund of $100 million to either meet or assist in meeting in a transparent and equitable manner, the cost of life saving specialist medical treatment and surgery for children. It was also agreed that the salary of the Prime Minister would be reduced by 15 per cent, while that of Ministers of Government and Parliament Secretaries would be reduced by 5 per cent with the sums deducted from the relevant salaries being placed in the proposed Children’s Life Fund. Indeed, from the very first month of taking office, the very first salary, the deductions were made. I am advised that the amount 258 Children’s Life Fund Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. K. PERSAD-BISSESSAR] allocated for the fund as at September 30, 2010 is $239,625 having been deducted from the salaries of the Prime Minister, Ministers and Parliament Secretaries. Mr. Speaker, these moneys are being currently held in a deposit account until the legislation establishing the life fund is approved by this honourable House and that of the other House. Mr. Speaker, I would ask that you kindly note that the Government intends to upgrade the quality and range of locally available health care treatments, and the number of persons qualified to treat locally most ailments in our public health institutions. However, it is recognized that until we can achieve these objectives, the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago will need specialist care that could only be privately sourced either locally or abroad, and that is why we had proposed the Children’s Life Fund to complement and build upon our existing primary and secondary health care services to ensure good maternal and child health. Mr. Speaker, the future of our country is inescapably tied to the good health and well-being of our children. Children are our most precious resource and our very best hope for a successful and prosperous future. Recently, when I addressed the United Nations General Assembly, I stated, and I still hold this view respectfully, it is our belief that children must not die in the dawn of life in my country, or in any other country, because they cannot afford health care. Health care is a basic right in Trinidad and Tobago. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, too many futures have been lost; too much potential has gone unfulfilled, because the families did not have the resources to afford crucial life saving medical procedures. We will remember with sorrow, for example, Satish Deonarine, who passed away at the age of 10 and a half years of a heart attack, just a week after the Minister of Health took office and funding was approved for him to access the care that his family was so desperately trying to access prior to that. To the families of Satish Deonarine and the numerous others who suffered and died because of the lack of funding, we say that your children's suffering and death will not be in vain. By creating the life fund, the People's Partnership is not only delivering on the promise of taking health care to the people of Trinidad and Tobago but also making sure that lives are not lost because of socio-economic standing. Mr. Speaker, you would recall the rationale for the Fund, and it was that surgical procedures and medical procedures that were not available in Trinidad and Tobago were to be sourced abroad, and families who were financially challenged, that is to say, did not have the money, and were too poor to find it and they would do cake sales, bake sales and barbecues trying to raise these sums of money to send their children abroad. On the basis of that, we said, no, the Government should partner with the parents and 259 Evidence (Amdt.) (No. 2) Bill Friday, October 29, 2010 the private sector to afford the procedures needed by our children. The life fund has not been established, as we well know, by legislation to date, and that is why today we lay the Bill which we hope we could debate in this Parliament in the very near future. In spite of that, we decided as a Government to move expeditiously to assist children of Trinidad and Tobago in a fair, transparent and equitable manner and, as such, under the Ministry of Health Medical Aid Programme, nine children—since we have taken office—have received benefits totalling just over $1.942 million. The persons entitled to access this fund and the procedure to access same is being finalized by the Ministry, notwithstanding the process being adopted by the Ministry that has been incorporated into the formal framework in the Bill that is before this House. So, in order now to ensure the sustainability of the life fund, private sector incentives will be established. The Minister of Finance, in his budget statement, did indicate some of those to encourage contributions to the life fund from the private sector and individuals, so the fund will be able to accept donations from private citizens. In this regard, if I may just briefly indicate what our policy position is as contained in the Bill, we will establish the life fund. Clause 4 of the Bill establishes a charity to be known as the Children's Life Fund and a body corporate to be known as the Children’s Life Fund Authority. The functions of the Authority would be to operate, manage and administer the Children’s Life Fund; assist in providing specialist medical treatment to children from families who are unable to afford such treatment; manage the life unit and collect and invest funds. “(1) The President appoint a Board of Management for the purposes of general administration and management of the affairs of the Authority.” This Board we have proposed will comprise eight members: “(a) a senior public officer nominated by the minister; (b) a senior public officer nominated by the Minister with responsibility for finance; (c) a senior public officer nominated by the minister with responsibility for Tobago affairs; (d) four individuals…”—private citizens “(e) the Chief Executive Officer of the Authority, who shall be an ex officio 260 Children’s Life Fund Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. K. PERSAD-BISSESSAR] member.” Mr. Speaker, the functions of the board will be to: “(a) authorize the payment of medical and related expenses of beneficiaries; (b) ensure that the Children's Life Fund is prudentially managed based on international best practices used for investments of a similar nature; (c) review from time to time, the performance of the Children’s Life Fund and make recommendations; (d) establish procedures for applying to the Children's Life Fund, determining the eligibility for the payment or reimbursement of medical expenses for beneficiaries and processing claim disputes; (e) set and administer rules for qualification of beneficiaries adhering to prescribed policies established by the government; (f) approve applications processed by the Life Unit; (g) make payments from the Children's Life Fund to the beneficiaries; (h) disseminate information on the Children’s Life Fund and the programme to the public; (i) authorize and make payments of all administrative costs of the Authority…; (j) review and approve annual operating expenses…; (k) establish and develop strategic partnerships with international institutions to facilitate the execution of best care plans for beneficiaries…”

Mr. Speaker, you would recall after our visit to New York for the UNGA, we had indicated that there was an organization which runs 22 hospitals in the United States of America, and these 22 hospitals are hospitals for children, and they have agreed to partner with us for surgical procedures and medical procedures free of cost to children identified here in Trinidad and Tobago. So, once this legislation is in place, we can have a transparent and accountable manner in which the partnerships will take place locally and internationally in order to assist the children of Trinidad and Tobago. You may recall also that I had proposed at the Caricom Heads of Government Meeting that there be established, as well, a Pan-Caribbean Children's Life Fund, and it was agreed in principle by the Heads, and now we are looking forward to putting the flesh on to that. Certainly, the model that we establish in Trinidad and 261 Children’s Life Fund Friday, October 29, 2010

Tobago will assist us in the framework within the Caricom region. We have had many pledges of support for the Life Fund and for the children, but, without the legislation, we really could not take things much further until that framework is established according to law. Why was it necessary? Why did we not just do it? We could have done it, but we were advised that in order to receive donations from the public we need the legislation. The Government could not just be collecting moneys from the public without the legislation. So, the legislation will give the framework, the transparency and the accountability in order for any partnerships with the private sector with individuals locally, regionally and internationally for that to take place within the legal framework as envisaged in the Bill which is now before the Parliament. And so, we will debate the Bill at a future date. May I say that on Wednesday next, indeed, an organization is partnering with the Government, and, with the legislation coming into place, we will have the transparency for accepting donations. The fashion designers of Trinidad and Tobago will on Wednesday be hosting a special show under my patronage. That show is labelled "Bombay Dreams". What the fashion designers are going to be doing is to take the East meets West—some of the fashions we are seeing being worn by the Member for Laventille East/Morvant, the Member for Port of Spain North/St. Ann's West; the Member for Couva North; the Member for Oropouche East; the Member for St. Joseph; the Member for Couva South and others. The Bombay Dreams envisages taking the East meets West fashions and making them uniquely Trinidad and Tobago. The good news is that all the funds raised from that show, the proceeds are to be donated to the Children's Life Fund. [Desk thumping] It does two things: it allows us to showcase "made in Trinidad and Tobago" while, at the same time, assist the children of Trinidad and Tobago. There are other organizations that want to do likewise, but we have been on hold. We have been accepting the pledges, but, with respect to taking moneys, we are on hold with that because, as I said, we wanted to do it in the framework of legislation to ensure there is accountability and transparency in the administration of moneys put towards this fund. Mr. Speaker, with those few words, I want to thank you very much. [Desk thumping] 2.00 p.m. CHILDREN’S LIFE FUND BILL 262 Children’s Life Fund Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. K. PERSAD-BISSESSAR] Bill to establish the Children’s Life Fund as a charity and for related matters [The Minister of Health]; read the first time. JOINT SELECT COMMITTEES (APPOINTMENT OF) The Minister of Housing and the Environment (Hon. Dr. Roodal Moonilal): Mr. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion: Be it resolved that this House appoint the following six Members to serve with an equal number from the Senate on the Joint Select Committee established to consider the Legislative Proposal to provide for public procurement and disposal of public property together with the Legislative proposal to repeal and replace the Central Tenders Board Act: Mr. Prakash Ramadhar Dr. Tim Gopeesingh Mr. Herbert Volney Mr. Colin Partap Dr. Keith Rowley Mr. Colm Imbert Question put and agreed to. The Minister of Housing and the Environment (Hon. Dr. Roodal Moonilal): Mr. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion: Be it resolved that this House appoint the following six Members to serve with an equal number from the Senate on the Joint Select Committee on Parliamentary Accommodation established to consider essential guiding policies related to Member and staff accommodation during the Restoration of the Red House Project and report to both Houses from time to time: Mr. Stephen Cadiz Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh Ms. Ramona Ramdial Dr. Delmon Baker Dr. Keith Rowley 263 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

Mr. Colm Imbert Question put and agreed to. LAND ACQUISITION The Minister of Food Production, Land and Marine Resources (Sen. The Hon. Vasant Bharath): Mr. Speaker, Be it resolved that this House approve the decision of the President to acquire the lands described in Appendix I for the public purposes specified. Mr. Speaker, the People's Partnership Manifesto, now Government policy, laid out very lucidly its initiative for a secure, prosperous and sustainable nation, guided by the underlying facet and principle that the highest mission of any country, indeed, certainly, Trinidad's society, is the development of its people. That means, as we leverage our resources and we apply our efforts, we do so in a way such that we produce more than we consume, and, as we develop we take into account environmental sustainability and that any such development will always take into account future generations. Sustainability and sustainable development require Government to provide public facilities and infrastructure to ensure safety and security, to ensure health and welfare, to ensure social and economic enhancement and the protection and restoration of the natural environment. In order to do these things, in order to provide these facilities, Government must have access to lands for investment into roads, bridges, hospitals, health care centres, schools, water, sewerage facilities and for protection against flooding and for protecting of watercourses. In most cases these lands belong to the State, and, we are therefore able to move with speed and alacrity in our goal of improving the lives and the quality of lives of the people of Trinidad and Tobago. It has enabled us, for example, over the last 180 days, since coming into office, to build, as a Government, several bridges, to be in a position to pave several kilometres of road, to dredge and widen watercourses, to provide lighting on several recreation facilities across the country, to provide greater water supply for our citizens. In fact, I have been asked by the Minister of Public Utilities to state that, at yesterday's meeting of Cabinet, the Cabinet approved an amount of $1.3 billion for WASA to enable WASA to provide a better supply of water to the population through better distribution channels, through better transmission channels and through greater investment into the production of watercourses. It allows us to be able to build new schools where the State owns lands. We have on the table, as you may know and this honourable House would know, prospects for building several early childhood learning centres. That has been passed in the budget. In the area of agriculture, we are in the process of returning several 264 Joint Select Committees Friday, October 29, 2010 thousand acres of land to its primary use which is agriculture. Lands that were nefariously, I might say, earmarked for other purposes previously are now going to be returned to agricultural purposes. Whilst I am talking about agriculture, I just want to divert for two minutes to talk about the issue of the EMBD, which, as you know, is the agency charged with the responsibility for state lands in Trinidad and Tobago, which previously fell under the Ministry of Finance, but now falls under the purview of the Ministry of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs. It has been in the public domain over the last week or so. Several contracts engaged in by the EMBD, have been stopped. I want to say that there is a bit of mischief there. Those contracts have not been stopped. They have been halted temporarily until a new board has been put in place. There is a particular reason for that, and that is simply this. In the 90 days run up to the general election, from the period April 19 through to May 29; the last 90 days prior to the election date, the EMBD awarded contacts to the value of $1,109,538,000. Mr. Sharma: Are you serious? What craziness is this? Sen. The Hon. V. Bharath: I am not for a moment suggesting that there was any untoward activity there, but we have put those contracts on hold until the new board settles in, until a new board is able to assess these contracts. One of the driving forces behind temporarily halting these contracts was the issue that, in the last four years, the EMBD had embarked upon other contracts, which, for various reasons, having done a significant amount of work, these contracts were actually stopped, completely and totally, permanently stopped. The value of those contracts was $32,331,593 on works expended and projects halted completely. So, effectively, the taxpayers of Trinidad and Tobago got absolutely no value for these works that were done. I just want to clarify for this honourable House the issue with regard to the EMBD. In fact, Mr. Speaker, in many countries across the world, the state actually acquires land for the purposes of agriculture. What we found when we got into office was, there were thousands of acres of land that were lying barren, idle lands. It related primarily to the fact that, although they were fertile, arable lands, what happened was, you had a situation where incentives were tied to the ability to farm the land. So if you did not have title to the land, if you were not a regularized farmer, you were not able to access the same incentives as a regularized farmer was able to; nor were you able to go to the ADB and get a loan at a preferential rate as the farmer who had been regularized. I want to inform this honourable House that as from January 01, 2011, the Ministry of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs has now disentangled the issue of incentives from land tenure and land title. Once a farmer is cultivating at 265 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 least 30 per cent of his farmland, he is now in the same position as any other farmer to access incentives that are offered by the Ministry, as well as the preferential loans offered by the Agricultural Development Bank. Mr. Speaker, you would appreciate that what that does, is, it now brings to the fore, and right to the front, thousands and thousands of acres that were not previously used that the Government may probably have had to have compulsorily acquired had it not been for the fact that they have now been brought into the forefront to be in a position to be able to create food for the people of Trinidad and Tobago. Mr. Speaker, it is noteworthy that, although 53 per cent of the land mass in Trinidad and Tobago is actually owned by the State, there are instances when the State requires to have lands and the owner does not wish to voluntarily sell those lands. In such instances, the State is left with very little option but to exercise its rights to compulsorily acquire those lands. So, compulsory acquisition is the power of the State to be able to acquire rights in land, not owned by the State, without the willing consent of the owner or occupant in order to benefit the society. It is a relatively straightforward procedure. It is governed by the Land Acquisition Act, 1994 and it is a three-pronged process. Stage one involves section 3 of the Act, and that is actually the publication of the intended acquisition in the Trinidad and Tobago Gazette. It is published and notification is given to the landowner. Stage two involves section 4 of the Act, which stipulates publication of an Order authorizing the Commissioner of State Lands to take possession of the land. The Order is published after the land has been surveyed. A valuation report is submitted and verification of title is obtained. The final stage which is stage 3, which is the stage where we are here today, involves section 5 of the Act, and that deals with the formal acquisition by the State which entails the approval of the Parliament of the President's decision to acquire the land. That is where we are today with regard to the parcels of land we are here to discuss, section 5 of the Land Acquisition Act, 1994.

As you would appreciate, Mr. Speaker, and I think all of my colleagues in the House here would appreciate, that compulsory acquisition of land has always been and will always continue to be a very sensitive matter. It will always continue to be a delicate matter, particularly so in today's world of rapid growth and in terms of changes in land use, because, although it may bring benefits to the society at large, it is a process that is extremely disruptive and fraught with a significant amount of tension for those who are actually affected, in fact, those whose lands are being acquired. As you may appreciate, it can cause significant displacement of families from their communities, it can cause disruption and the movement of farmers from lands that they have cultivated 266 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. V. BHARATH] for many, many years, sometimes for generations. It can cause the disruption of businesses; because businesses may have to leave the locations that they have built significant goodwill in over a period of time. Therefore, if the matter is not handled properly, if it is handled poorly and insensitively, it leaves people dispossessed, it leaves them homeless, possibly it leaves them landless, and with a feeling of a great sense of injustice that may have been perpetrated upon them. 2.15 p.m. Of course, if it is handled properly, in a sensitive manner, it leaves communities and people, albeit with a degree of sadness, in a sense of what is called equivalence, in that, they have not either gained or lost, while, at the same time, providing what it is intended to do, which is to benefit society. Mr. Speaker, the record of the previous regime, unfortunately, was that the matter of compulsory acquisition had not been handled in the best possible way, and I say this in the most diplomatic of manners. In fact, in many cases, it was handled in a very callous and inhumane way, leaving hundreds of citizens dispossessed and disgruntled with government. The record would show that there has been very little consultation prior to the acquisition of the lands. In fact, the records would also show that the surveying of these lands, just to be initiated, has taken many years, just to get to the point where the surveyor goes out to look at the land, let alone complete the survey. What has been very lethargic has been the ability of the government to pay the people whose lands have been compulsorily acquired. The records at my Ministry show that there are people still awaiting compensation, who were moved when the Solomon Hochoy Highway was built in 1962 and people in Tobago awaiting compensation since the Claude Noel Highway was built in 1973. These are people still awaiting compensation. I want to remind this honourable House that the valuation is actually done at the market value, at the time of entry of the State onto the land, or at the time of acquisition of the land. We all know that the price of property, over the last 30 or 40 years, even over the last 10 years, has increased dramatically; so when you are looking to compensate someone at 1975 value for a piece of land in 2010, if that person, haply, is still alive, you can see the enormity of the issue. We have over 300 cases backed up at the Ministry of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs for compensation dating back to 30 or 40 years, for persons still awaiting compensation for lands compulsorily acquired by government over that period of time. In fact, on a visit to Lopinot only two weeks ago, I met a 97-year-old lady from Tobago 267 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 whose lands were compulsorily acquired by the government in October 1992. To this day, that lady is still waiting for compensation for her lands. Fortunately, she spoke with me and I have been able to pull her particular claim out of the bag and put it in front of my Permanent Secretary, but there are not many people who may be fortunate enough to meet a representative of the people who is in a position to do that. Therefore, it is clear that the system is not working for the people of Trinidad and Tobago. It is clear that the process is heavily weighted in favour of the State, which, in my opinion, is not a good situation. We may, as a new government and a people- centred Government, need to look at making some amendments, so that persons whose lands are compulsorily acquired may have better recourse to get and enjoy their moneys, particularly in a situation, as it exists, where they have not voluntarily sold their land to the State. For example, there is an argument which says that if the State is unable to conclude the transaction of compulsory acquisition within a certain period of time, purely due to its own fault, that the acquisition should be abandoned. That then puts an onus on the State to complete the transaction within a certain period of time. Mr. Speaker, we have before us today a Motion which the Government is presenting before this honourable House regarding 10 significant projects for public purposes; five in Trinidad and five in the sister isle of Tobago. The projects relevant to Trinidad are the construction of a new fire station at Lady Hailes Avenue at San Fernando; improvement works to the Uriah Highway; expansion of the Oxford Street Health Centre in Port of Spain; the construction of secondary schools at New Lands Village, Guayaguayare and expansion of the Barataria Health Centre. The Tobago projects are the construction of the Claude Noel Highway; the management and protection of the Courland Watershed; the construction of housing and government facilities in Plymouth; the widening of the junction at Bacolet Street and the Claude Noel Highway and the road development along Shirvan Road. Mr. Speaker, as you and all my colleagues in this House would appreciate, many of these projects were completed a very long time ago and we are here today to discuss the fact that these parcels have been compulsorily acquired. I now go into the details of the 10 projects and the parcels that have been acquired. The first is the widening of the junction at Bacolet Street and Claude Noel Highway. This honourable House has been asked to approve the decision of the President to acquire a parcel of land comprising 94.5 square metres or 1,017 square feet, situate at the south-western corner of Bacolet and Main Street in Scarborough, Tobago, and said to belong, now or formerly, to Lennox Phillip. This 268 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. V. BHARATH] parcel is more particularly described in the Schedule on the Order Paper under No. 1. It was utilized by the Tobago House of Assembly for the public purpose of roadworks, the particular project being the widening of the junction of Bacolet Street and the Claude Noel Highway. This project has since been completed. Investigations reveal that this parcel was not formerly acquired at the time of its use; however, since the parcel of land was already in use, section 5 of the Land Acquisition Act was pursued, that is, the occupied area had to be surveyed and a valuation obtained so as to determine the quantum of compensation to be paid. The survey plan for this acquisition was not completed until June 2006 and approved by the Director of Surveys in July 2006. In June 2008, the Commissioner of Valuations advised that the estimated value of the said land was in the sum of $230,000. A final valuation has not been completed, so no payments have been made to date. Mr. Speaker, No. 2 in Appendix I is the expansion of the Barataria Health Centre. This honourable House is being asked to approve the decision of the President to acquire a parcel of land comprising approximately 741 square metres or 7,976 square feet, belonging now or formerly to Trevor Benjamin, Rodney Benjamin and William Iton, situate at No. 7 Seventh Street in Barataria. This parcel is more particularly described in the Schedule in the Order Paper under No. 2. This land was utilized for the public purpose of the expansion of the Barataria Health Centre to include facilities for the physically challenged and a wellness multipurpose centre for health promotion and education. This project has also since been completed. The Commissioner of Valuations advised in July 2009 that agreement had been reached with the affected parties in full and final settlement of their claim in the amount of $1,398 million, in accordance with section 22 of the Land Acquisition Act, Chap. 58:01. The parties were paid 80 per cent of their claim amounting to $1,118,400. The residual amount to be paid is the sum of $279,600. Mr. Speaker, item 3 is construction of the Claude Noel Highway. This honourable House is being asked to approve the decision of the President to acquire a parcel of land comprising 3,367.1 square metres situate at Mt. Pleasant, Tobago, and said to belong, now or formerly, to Cicely McPherson-Shaw and Brian Victor McPherson. This parcel is more particularly described in the Schedule on the Order Paper under No. 3. This land was also utilized for the public purpose of the construction of the Claude Noel Highway. It should be noted that although the highway was constructed, when the original survey for this project was done, several parcels of land, including the subject's parcel, were remitted.

The requisite survey for this parcel has since been carried out and was 269 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 approved by the Director of Surveys in 2000. The Commissioner of Valuations has valued this parcel of land at $891,274.34. No payment has been made thus far as we are still awaiting the advice of the Chief State Solicitor's Department with respect to title of the land. Item No. 4—construction of the Claude Noel Highway. This honourable House is being asked to approve the decision of the President to acquire a parcel of land comprising 1,920.1 square metres, situate at Lambeau, Tobago, and said to belong, now or formerly, to Cecilia Evans-Ojoe. This parcel is more particularly described in the Schedule under No. 4. The parcel was utilized for the public purpose of construction of the Claude Noel Highway. It should be noted that, although the subject's parcel of land was utilized for the construction of the Claude Noel Highway, it was not included in the previous surveys and was, therefore, omitted from the previous acquisitions. Upon discovery of the omission, the Director of Surveys issued a survey order No. 20/2004 in January 2004 to rectify the matter and the requisite survey plan was approved on June 13, 2005. The Commissioner of Valuations has indicated to the Commissioner of State Lands that agreement has been reached with the claimant for the sum of $785,808.20. The Commissioner of State Lands has advised that 80 per cent of the payment, in the sum of $628,646.56, was made to the claimant in June 2008. The residual amount to be paid is the sum of $157,161.64. This sum will be paid after the Parliament formally approved the acquisition of this parcel of land under section 5 of this Act. Item No. 5—construction of housing and Government facilities. This honourable House is being asked to approve the decision of the President to acquire four parcels of land together comprising 24,69.8 hectares; situated at Venture Estate, Plymouth, Tobago, and said to belong, now or formerly, to Norman Martin Schneider, parcels one and two, and Chilo Rooplal Singh, parcels three and four. These parcels are particularly described in the Schedule under No. 5 and were utilized for the public purpose of the construction of housing and government facilities. This has been completed. The two parcels of land, belonging to and owned by Chilo Rooplalsingh, were valued at $17,762,436. No advanced payment has been made thus far as we are still awaiting the advice of the Chief State Solicitor regarding title to the parcels. The two parcels of land owned by Martin Schneider have been valued at $10,310,400; to date, a portion of the land value has been paid in the amount of $8,137,878.92 plus interest, in the amount of $3,262,223.48. The total paid so far is $11,403,302.40. The balance due, which includes interest, is $3,086,767.85. 2.30 p.m. 270 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. V. BHARATH] Item No. 6: the construction of a secondary school at Newlands Village in Guayaguayare. This honourable House is also being asked to approve the decision of the President to acquire a parcel of land comprising 1.9256 hectares or 4.89 acres belonging now or formerly to David Timothy situate at the end of Warwick Street, Newlands Village in the ward of Guayaguayare in the county of Mayaro. This parcel is more particularly described in the schedule on the Order Paper under No. 6. This land was utilized for the public purpose of the construction of the Guayaguayare Secondary School at the request of the Ministry of Education. The project has since been completed. The school was officially opened in August of 2004 and has been in operation for a little over six years. In September 2005 the Commissioner of Valuations advised that the estimated value of these parcels is in the amount of $60,000. No payment has been made to date. We are awaiting the Commissioner of Valuations’ advice in this matter. Item No. 7: improvement works to the Uriah Butler Highway. This honourable House is being asked to approve the decision of the President to acquire two parcels of land comprising 1,480.7 square metres and 367.4 square metres, respectively, both situate at the western side of the Uriah Butler Highway immediately north of the Cunupia River Canal, Charlieville, in the borough of Chaguanas, County Caroni and said to belong now or formerly to Balgobin Rattan and Routee Rattan. These parcels are more particularly described in the schedule on the Order Paper under No. 7. This land was utilized for the public purpose of road improvement along the Uriah Butler Highway and this project has since been completed. It should be noted that these parcels are inadvertently not included in the original survey plans. In 1988 the subject parcels were acquired in accordance with the Land Acquisition Ordinance, Chap. 27:10, which had no provision for any advance payment on compensation. Under that Ordinance, no compensation was paid to a landowner before the land was formally vested in the State in accordance with section 5 of the said Ordinance. In June 2009, the Commissioner of Valuations advised that the estimated value of these parcels is in the sum of $126,000. It should also be noted that, in accordance with section 40 of the Land Acquisition Act, Chap. 58:01, which deals with transitional matters, an advanced payment of compensation in the sum of $100,000 was paid to Balgobin and Routee Rattan, the registered owners. The balance due is still to be determined and negotiations are ongoing with the Commissioner of Valuations. Item No. 8: the construction of the Claude Noel Highway. This honourable House is being asked to approve the decision of the President to acquire three parcels of land 271 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 together comprising 1,566.3 square metres situate at Lowlands, Tobago and said to belong now or formerly to Norman Anthony Bishop, parcel number 14 and the unnumbered parcel; and Merlyn Kennedy, parcel number 15. These parcels are more particularly described in the schedule on the Order Paper under No. 8. These parcels were also utilized for the public purpose of the construction of the Claude Noel Highway. We have been informed by the Commissioner of Valuations that these parcels have been valued at $426,270.56 and no payment has been made on these yet. No. 9: the expansion of the Oxford Street Health Centre in Port of Spain. Again, this honourable House is being asked to approve the decision of the President to acquire two parcels of land together comprising 709.6 square metres situate at, and known as No. 67 and No. 69 Oxford Street, Port of Spain in the Ward of St. Ann's, in the County of St. George and detailed as follows. (a) a parcel of land comprising 354.6 square metres situate at No. 67 Oxford Street, Port of Spain belonging now or formerly to the estate of Egbert Ellis; (b) a parcel of land comprising 355 square metres situate at No. 69 Oxford Street, Port of Spain, belonging now or formerly to Sorzanoville Limited. These parcels are more particularly described in the schedule in the Order Paper under No. 9. This land was utilized for the public purpose of the expansion of the Oxford Street Health Care Centre in Port of Spain at the request of the Ministry of Health. This project has long been completed and the facilities are currently in use. In July 2009 the Commissioner of Valuations advised that the estimated value of these parcels is in the amount of $845,000. A claim for compensation was submitted with respect to the parcel of land owned by the estate of Egbert Ellis and negotiations are ongoing with the Commissioner of Valuations. No claim, however, has been submitted with respect to the second parcel owned by Sorzanoville Limited. Item number 10: the construction of a new fire station at Lady Hailes Avenue in San Fernando. Again, this honourable House is being asked to approve the decision of the President to acquire a parcel of land comprising 734.01 square metres, belonging now or formerly to Federal Tyre Services Company Limited situated at Lady Hailes Avenue in San Fernando. This parcel is more particularly described in the schedule on the Order Paper under No. 10. This land is required for the public purpose of the construction of a fire station at the request of the Ministry of National Security. This project is not yet completed. As at March 2010, terms of reference for the construction of the fire station were still being developed. In March 272 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. V. BHARATH] 2004 the Commissioner of Valuations advised that the estimated value of this parcel is in the amount of $345,000. No claims have yet been made. Number 11 is the protection of the Courland Watershed. This honourable House is being asked to approve the decision of the President to acquire one parcel of land comprising 305 acres, 3 roods and 24 perches, situate at Moriah, Tobago and said to belong now or formerly to Reginald Morshead. This parcel is more particularly described in the schedule on the Order Paper under Item No. 11. This parcel was utilized for the public purpose of the management and protection of the Courland watershed. No works were required to be done on the land as it was acquired to ensure that it remained in its natural state. The Commissioner of Valuations valued this property at $11,156,229. 60. To date, the sum of $6,852,160 has been paid and the sum of $4,304,139.60 remains outstanding until this acquisition is approved by the Parliament in accordance with section 5(3) of the Act. Finally, Item No 12: Road Development along Shirvan Road. Again this House is being asked to approve the decision of the President to acquire a parcel of land comprising approximately 404 square metres or 4,349 square feet, belonging now or formerly to Denyse Wallis and Gail Kelshall situate along Shirvan Road, Tobago. This parcel is more particularly described in the schedule on the Order Paper as Item No. 12. This land was utilized for the public purpose of road development along Shirvan Road. The Commissioner of Valuations advised that in August 2007 agreement had been reached with the affected parties for full and final settlement of their claim in the amount of $695, 482. 25. The parties were paid 80 per cent of their claim amounting to $556,385.80. The residual amount to be paid is the sum of $139,096.45 upon the formal acquisition of the parcel.

There can be absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind, even the most partisan of Opposition supporters, that this is an untenable situation where members of the public whose lands have been acquired through compulsory acquisition, many of whom may have resisted the process but have obeyed the laws of Trinidad and Tobago, have been waiting for many, many years for compensation from the State. In many cases these lands have been used for the benefit of society and governments have reaped the benefits of those lands, but because our system allows for a long and detracted period and our system and our processes—because of the bureaucratic nature of it—allow for citizens to have little recourse or access to officials, we find that many citizens who have had cause to vest their lands in the State have passed on without moneys being paid. It is left for their descendants and the new owners of their estate to now follow through in a very long and tedious process to receive what is justly due to them. 273 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

When I started researching for this Bill, I have to tell you that I was appalled and so I spoke with members at the Ministry to try to understand clearly what has created this problem, and the problems are myriad. The problems stem from issues of not having sufficient staff; the problems stem from not having sufficiently qualified staff; the problem stems from a general malaise and lethargy that pervade our system, such that members of the public who are due these moneys are perceived as a bother. Therefore they get pushed and pulled from pillar to post and many of them, as I say, either give up or they die, unfortunately, waiting for these funds to be paid. I believe that this system needs to be overhauled. I believe that our population requires and, in fact, demands more of us, and I believe that we have the opportunity as a new Government, one that is, as our Prime Minister continually says, people-centered; people-focused, where everything that we do incorporates and is embedded in the mantra: serve the people; serve the people; serve the people. I believe that it is our duty that we must reform this system, collectively. I do not necessarily talk about on this side; I talk about collectively, because I am certain that members on the other side must find it as scandalous, as we on this side do, that these things are allowed to happen. I will not take up too much of the House's time this afternoon, because I know that there is an impending severe storm and weather watch and many schools have closed early today; many of our Ministries have allowed their staff graciously to leave Port of Spain early, but I just want to say that this Government is committed. 2.45 p.m. It is clear that we have inherited, unfortunately, a number of broken institutions. Wherever the fault lies, I am not here at this point in time to point fingers. I am saying that is a fact. We have inherited many broken institutions that we are compelled as a new Government, because of our mandate, to attend to and to repair. We will continue to do our jobs fearlessly with a view that everything we do must impact positively on the quality of life of all of the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, regardless of the social background, regardless of geographic nature, whether we are in Tobago or Trinidad or Penal or Laventille; regardless of class; regardless of colour; regardless of ethnicity. We will do our job that we are mandated to do by the Prime Minister and the Cabinet of Trinidad and Tobago, and guided by our manifesto, as I said, which is now our policy document for Government as we strive to provide that safe, secure and sustainable environment that I spoke of in my opening remarks. Mr. Speaker, I beg to move. [Desk thumping] Question proposed. Dr. Keith Rowley (Diego Martin West): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Periodically, we 274 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. V. BHARATH] come to this House to carry out this assignment, and every time we seem to go over the same ground. It was because of that in 1994 a Bill was laid in this House to rectify the hurt and the unfairness which has been described as callousness by my colleague, the Minister of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs. I happened, at the time, to have held the portfolio of Agriculture Minister and piloted the Land Acquisition Bill, Act No. 28 of 1994 and, at that time, everything that was said by the Minister of Food Production now was said here by previous Ministers of Agriculture. This whole question of land acquisition, especially for the people of Tobago if I might add that—at the time we passed this Act No. 28 of 1994, the intention of this House was to solve that problem and to be more humane. So when my colleague says that the previous administration's callousness ought to be taken note of and it is the reason for this being before us, that was just a political cheap shot because, to the extent that he did give an example of the lady from Lopinot, who in 1991—I think he said—[Interruption] Hon. Bharath: 1992. Dr. K. Rowley: 1992. One may remember that, if it was callousness, then the UNC was in Government from 1996 to 2001. So clearly, they did share in some or had some responsibility for that callousness that you seek to place on the shoulder of the previous administration. It might have been more accurate if it was factual to say that previous administrations have been callous, and I would not have agreed with you on that. There is a certain amount of callousness. I agree with that, because I too met an old lady from Tobago. This time I met her in Grande Riviere where she had lost her land in Castara, Tobago. She was living in Grande Riviere and she had this problem of getting compensation. Mr. Speaker, the Minister did a very good job in going on, moving from the attempt to score a cheap political point, to outline the difficulties that surround the administration of land acquisition. Whoever had prepared the Minister's brief put it in perspective, and he himself subsequently would have said to us here what the real problems are. What we really should be focusing on is whether the attempt at legislating in 1994 has succeeded in doing what we think would have been done then. If it is not as he said it is not, and we could come to that conclusion very easily, then it may very well be that the solution is not to broad-brush previous administrations and score cheap political points about who was callous and who was not callous, but seek to find an improvement of Act No. 28 of 1994 by way of ensuring that there are clauses in this Bill which will make the process more complete once the process has started. When I was given the responsibility to respond to this Bill, I too sought to examine 275 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 the 12 items that are in front of us. I sought to examine them from the point of view of seeing whether, in fact, this Act of 1994 has been violated, or if there was any opportunity for the said acquisitions before us on any of these 12 parcels to have been abandoned as per the clauses of the current Act. Mr. Speaker, I regret to announce that work has not been completed, but it will be interesting to see, following step by step in the process, whether in fact, because of the various delays outlined by the Minister, which are largely departmental delays—because he himself pointed it out. It was not the Cabinet delaying it. There are departments that—I am not talking about department, there are a number of Government departments. He gave a couple of examples of acquisitions being stymied by positions being taken by the State Solicitor, others being held up by concerns of the Commissioner of Lands—another big one, especially for Tobago small parcels of lands. The old lady I mentioned from Castara, her problem was this question of establishing title, and because of the hardship that follows that kind of non-completion of acquisition especially in that case of loss like that, it may very well be that this Act No. 28 of 1994 needs to be amended to create an escrow situation where the State can and must pay into an escrow immediately and, therefore, discharge its responsibility by that payment. Then individuals who have claim to that escrow fund will then proceed in whatever way is possible. What is happening is that the process is not completed because of these kinds of problems as mentioned by the Minister and, therefore, no payment is made. So the Government gets to use the land for two and three decades, as in some instances, Claude Noel Highway, without having paid, and that is what appears now to be callous. In fact, it is a process which has been aborted for sometimes good reason because the State will always want to know that only the person or persons entitled to the funds get the funds, and also that you are paying as you should, as per the ownership. So the law will always have in it, as this law has in it, positions to establish who is supposed to be the beneficiary of this acquisition, the payment that goes for it. So, let us not play politics with this. There is a law here which was meant—only as recently as 1994—to fix it. It is working, but there seems to be stumbling blocks in the bureaucracy, which may be of the bureaucracy’s own making or it may not be. If there is a title problem and there is no provision in the law for the State having accepted the valuation at the time of acquisition to put that money in escrow and say, "We have discharged our responsibility as the State", then we end up with a stalemate process and that is where we need to look. Mr. Speaker, if we look at the 12 items in front of us, we will see the ones that are dealing with the Claude Noel Highway. As I mentioned the Claude Noel 276 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [DR. ROWLEY] Highway, every person would have a perspective of how long this has been going on. I do not think there is any title issue there because the Claude Noel Highway would have passed through a large parcel of land of which the owner and the title would not have been a problem, but it appears as though, as the Minister himself said, "Look at what happened there." In building the road, the State's surveyor, who is the person responsible for doing the surveys on the route, left out some parcels of land from the survey. The road was built. Subsequently, the owner would have complained and the survey would now have to be done. The road was built and probably in use. I happen to know of this particular instance personally because the complaint of the leaving out was made when I was the Agriculture Minister. Subsequently, a number of Governments have been in office, but what did you find? The law requires that the survey be done by the Director of Surveys, using a licensed surveyor of Trinidad and Tobago. If there is any area of shortage of skills in this country, surveying jumps to the front—there is always and has always been, as long as I have been aware, a shortage of surveyors in this country, and it appears as though culturally, in the public system, that surveys for land acquisition are low down on the totem pole especially after the initial works and the project has gone on the way, and there seems to be a cultural difficulty in getting the work completed because there is tremendous competition for the time and services of the handful of surveyors in the Director of Surveys Department. The last time when I had reason to observe that department, there were a number of vacancies which we could not fill because surveyors were not available. Steps were taken to try to get retired surveyors from abroad to work for the State, so as to treat with this matter. That did not seem to be successful. In fact, we went to an international agency—one of the UN agency I think it was—to try to see if they could have helped in finding surveyors to bolster that department. So here you have a department that is chronically understaffed, required to treat with these surveys and as many things, the priority list is long and land acquisition is low down there. So if there is any callousness, it is in treating with that and that is where it actually happens. It is not that somebody says, "We are not going to pay you and we will take your land and do not pay you." When you have a situation where the title of the land is bad, the process gets even more troublesome. Let me give you an example, Mr. Speaker. In my own constituency of Diego Martin West, there is a Health Centre in Carenage which the Parliament has approved funds for reconstruction, I think three or four years ago. Almost three years ago, an announcement was made by the Minister of Health of the start of construction of that project. At that time when the announcement was made, everything was in place for that project to be started. The fact of the matter right now is that we had to move out of the health 277 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 centre in preparation for the construction and move into rental premises, but no work has started. It turns out that the money was about to be paid. It turns out that it was a legal problem because the administration that was done by the family had a legal defect and that was only discovered just about the time when the payments ought to have been made to allow them to vacate the premises to allow the buildings to be pulled down to have the centre constructed. Mr. Speaker, because of the demand for that centre and my interest as Member of Parliament, I personally sought to walk this matter through the Office of the Minister of Health, through the relevant department in the Hall of Justice, to try to get the problem solved. Even as that level of interest is being paid to it, the problem remains intractable, and, as I speak to you now, that acquisition has not been completed and we have been unable to see the commencement of the construction of the Carenage Health Centre. 3.00 p.m. So, Mr. Speaker, I give you this example to show that even with the best will in the world there are things that develop that require additional attention. Today I take the opportunity to bring to the attention of the Minister responsible for acquisition and the Minister of Health that we have a problem with this particular project in Carenage, which requires somebody riding shotgun on it. If you do not run shotgun on it in the current arrangements, it may very well be that, at the end of your term, it will still remain unfinished. I know that you will say that you have done everything, but I would like some personal attention and that of your colleague on this particular matter of land acquisition for the Carenage Health Centre. We got to the point of having the funds in hand to pay the family and, because of this legal impediment which stymied the process midstream, it requires some personal attention. You did say that not many people have access to officials to get their acquisitions done, but the system should not be one where it requires access to an official to get it done. Sometimes, like in this case with the Carenage Health Centre on the site, it requires intervention. When we passed this Bill, if you go back to the Hansard of 1994, much was said and the feeling was that we had solved the problem. If one reads the law, one would get the impression that if the law operates there should not be a system where these old ladies or landowners of whatever age should have to feel aggrieved, as they are aggrieved, that their lands have been used and they have not got the compensation. The point made by the Minister about the valuation being taken at the time of entry is a very important point because it is unfair to come on my land in 1982—one of these 278 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [DR. ROWLEY] acquisitions was in 1982—and the law fixes the price at 1982 valuations and, for reasons of one kind or the other—sometimes if it is within the bureaucratic system—you are now stuck with that valuation and in the meantime land values have appreciated considerably. That is a great injustice being done to the owner who is stymied by the law in this way. Mr. Sharma: Are you suggesting that you will give support to pay the current value at the time of payment? Dr. K. Rowley: The trouble is that you will start the process. If you are saying you will pay at the time of completion of the process, it means that you will have a valuation at the time of completion, so you now have to do a valuation again and that may start a new process. It has to be looked at. It may very well be that one may put a limit to the period of time. If it is 10 or 20 years, it is really unreasonable. If it is only two years or 18 months and the land prices have gone up, we can live with that. If is 10 or 15 years, we may want to amend the law and put a limit which can trigger a revaluation and pay accordingly. If one wants to be fair, one has to look at the operational aspect of it. On the other hand, if we amend the law to force the process into completion, then there will be no need for that. I think that is the better way to do it. See where the impediments are, why they are impediments, remove those impediments and dispatch the valuation at the time of entry. When one examines the reasons for the delays, one sees, in the case of title, someone turns up and says he is or is not the person who is owner; he does not have a deed, but has been living there for 30 or 40 years on his grandfather's land; public servant; just throw their hands up and say they have no documents, what can they do; that happens. Many of the intractable payment situations, if you examine them closely, you will see that is what they are. The public servants cannot change the rule and say that since you have convinced them with a bleeding heart story that you have been here for 40 years, they will pass the payment. The public servants' hands are tied. Where is your documentation? I do not have it. I do not know. My mother was here with me. In that situation, the State needs to discharge its responsibility and I suspect that, if you examine it, you may very well find that paying into escrow for beneficiaries to be determined will get the State out of that situation of appearing to be callous. Secondly, if we put time lines on the process, then it forces the State's operatives to complete the process. No surgeon in the hospital, to the best of my knowledge, opens an abdomen on Monday and walks away to come back the following Monday to do it. He knows if he gets the process started he has to 279 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 complete it. So, before he does the beginning of the operation, he puts everything in place to make sure that he can go through to the end of suturing that wound. A similar approach must be made with land acquisition. We have developed a culture, not peculiar. Culture grows from practice. With respect to land acquisition, the culture is that it is a snail mail process, a slow process. I would not be surprised if some people tell landowners that. Mr. Speaker, just to put this in perspective, I do not know if you are aware that even though we have changed the financial year from January 01 to October 01, the culture of the public service in accepting the callendar year as the beginning of the year has resulted in the first quarter virtually passing unnoticed. Many of you Ministers will understand that, if you have not understood that already. The period between October and December brings no urgency on the part of the public service because the mindset and culture is that the year starts in January. That is how culture works. You end up talking to some people in January and they tell you about the first quarter when in fact you are well into the second quarter. In the first quarter, the mindset has been that we start at the January 01 callendar year, when the fiscal year starts October 01. That same cultural idiosyncrasy is something that one can see at work with respect to land acquisition. There is something that one has to look at in land acquisition with respect to its influence on national development. Let me take a particular project. The highway from Westmoorings to Port of Spain was built almost 30 years ago and the intention was to complete that highway to Chaguaramas. A number of governments have been in office since then. The dual carriageway ends at Goodwood Park and properties from Point Cumana all the way to Tembladora, for all those years, have been virtually held in abeyance by the State, saying to the property owners/occupiers then that: "You cannot be allowed to improve or to build on this route because it is the intention of the State to complete the roadway into Chaguaramas, which is growing and developing very fast. If that is the case, do not build, do not improve because we have to acquire your property." If you drive along the Western Main Road between Goodwood Park and Tembladora, you will meet some very shabby, abandoned properties. Recently there was a change in position by the government that it was not going by the land route but by the sea route. These people were left high and dry because the government was talking about going by causeway to Chaguaramas as against going by an on-land route, which would require the acquisitions. 280 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

Here it is that no acquisition was ever done, but the threat of acquisition and the Town and Country Department’s position that it would not approve any improvement to premises on that route because acquisition is imminent has resulted in considerable hardship and unfairness to my constituents in that area. What does one do? The land was not acquired. They have no claim for compensation under acquisition but they suffered the same effect of not being able to enjoy their premises in the way they ought to. I raise this now as a question to the Government, which I would like them to answer as early as possible. Given our new circumstances and the probable reordering of priorities, the Government is now required to take a position on that matter of a causeway to Chaguaramas, as to whether we do it or not; come back to the original position of how we get road access to Chaguaramas and, if it comes to the position that we go by the road route, then you come face to face with the acquisition of premises which are rundown and held in abeyance for 20-odd years waiting to be acquired. We will probably have to do some significant acquisition if we are to have improved access to Chaguaramas. Right now, the one-lane road that services Chaguaramas, connecting it to the rest of the country, is wholly inadequate. All you need is one beer drinker to park in front of a rum shop in Point Cumana and traffic backs up to Westmoorings and vice versa if you come from the other direction. Chaguaramas is the entertainment centre of the northern part of the country at carnival time and there are instances when there will be functions and for hours you cannot get in or out. There are some serious dangers in that situation. I have known situations where people have been to functions in Chaguaramas and they enter their vehicles at 2.00 a.m. and come out at daybreak because there is virtually no road. The Government of Trinidad and Tobago today is required to address that. What is before us now as the programme of work is a causeway. I know that work has been done on that because the investigative work has been done and it forms part of the development programme. [Interruption] The question now is: do we proceed or do we not? I do not expect my colleague, the Member for D'Abadie/O'Meara, to understand that. Last night he got into a crash or some similar thing and got his head hit. I am not really talking to him; I am talking to the Minister of Agriculture, Land and Food Production. I know he will understand. I would like the relevant Minister to look at it. It is before us now and it is not a case of my fault/your fault but of public administration requiring a decision to be made. If you are going ahead with the causeway let us know. If not, we need to know and we need to know the access to Chaguaramas because it is required to be done and it must attract the attention of the Government of Trinidad and Tobago, which you are. 281 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

Another interesting point that needs to be made at this time, just for the attention of those who are not aware, is the question of land acquisition in Tobago. Tobago seems to be usually at the wrong end of this particular matter. There is a very peculiar problem of land title in Tobago, of which I am sure the Member for St. Augustine is aware. I know that certain things are in the pipeline. The THA has been very aggressive in getting the relevant legislation to this House. I hope it will get here very soon where we can take the relevant steps to ensure that this chronic problem, which has its roots in the absence of proper titles for land in Tobago, can be once and for all dealt with. I know it is far advanced and I hope that the Government will give it priority. Bring it here so that we can treat with the matter. I want to point out something. You will see the acquisition of large parcels of land in Tobago—not a few square metres. You will see estates being acquired and that is a reflection of a policy that needs to be noted by the Parliament and the country at large. 3.15 p.m. The history of Tobago landownership is that virtually if we look at an old map of Tobago, what you see is the whole island, except for the Main Ridge, which is the oldest nature reserve in the Western Hemisphere, virtually every piece of land in Tobago belongs to some estate. That means that the State, in Trinidad, has available to it significant proportions of state lands. [Minister Roberts sits in chair of the Leader of Government Business] I trust that your behaviour would improve according to your station? The State in Trinidad has considerable acreage of land available to it. In fact, Petrotrin and Caroni, both state enterprises, own huge parcels of land in Trinidad, plus there are other state lands owned by other agencies in Trinidad, whereas, in Tobago, there is virtually no land owned by the State. There has also been a policy to try and obtain some land from the private sector. If you look back at the history of it, you will see that at one time, Roxborough Estate came on the market and the government bought it. Then Hope Estate came on the market and the government bought it. That is why the government farm is now at Hope, having been relocated from Shaw Park; Shaw Park being earmarked for the extension of Scarborough. Later on you will see in this document the acquisition of Adventure Estate. Again, that was another large parcel of land which the government acquired and is now being used for housing and the expansion of Plymouth. Then, later on, in very recent times, the Tobago House of Assembly has been aggressive in looking at the market and acquiring, bringing onto the stage, lands that have come to the market and may have gone possibly to foreigners, if we are not careful. 282 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [DR. ROWLEY] The Tobago House of Assembly, in recent times, has acquired Courland Estate, Friendship Estate, Pigeon Point and Indian Walk. They are all private estates, which the owners put on the market, and the THA bought these lands by this acquisition process. A couple of these parcels that we are treating with today fall in that category. I think Indian Walk is in here. I also think there is another one in here of recent. It is a process that has been going on for quite some time. The Kendall Estate was also acquired by the State, where Kendall Farm School is. That was done at the time of the Roxborough acquisition. When the State acquires land like this, for a public purpose, it then allows the State to plan. It brings some spatial planning into the development of Tobago. I make this point for those persons who believe that the THA is just buying land for the sake of buying land and wasting money. That is not how it happens. What happens is, because the State now owns these parcels of land, as has happened at Adventure, if you go to Plymouth you would see the housing project and you would see the plans for accretion to Plymouth. The planners were involved in that. The use of the land at Courland—here again you had a nice parcel of virgin land for development. It was agricultural in some cases. It is now probably tourism and forestry. You can plan and bring a planner in. I know that there is a plan for Courland and the same thing is happening now at Friendship Estate. With respect to these acquisitions, while simply passing for a public purpose—there is no single purpose, say, for housing, a hotel or a road—this is to allow proper spatial planning to take place and I think the Tobago House of Assembly should be commended for this approach in Tobago's development. I think the Government should support it and ensure that we get the benefit of having available to us these larger tracts of land to allow Tobago to develop in an orderly fashion, guided by the hands of proper planners. The Minister of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs made a statement which I find quite interesting. He said that, in carrying out his duties, he is involved in taking back lands from housing that the EMBD had put into housing, under circumstances which he queried. Administration by innuendo is well known. I am here in no position to speak about the business of EMBD and how they conducted their affairs. I can tell you one thing. When it is said that the EMBD spent $1 billion awarding contracts and is left like that, without being put in its correct perspective, I take that as an innuendo, but it should not be for this Parliament, because it would have been this Parliament—if you go to the budget documents, you will see where, in one year, EMBD was allocated a certain amount of resources to carry out infrastructure development, because EMBD was the vehicle that the government used to create the development of 283 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 lands as part of that Caroni land transfer process. It is important to note that the people of Caroni (1975) Limited were entitled to get plots and those plots were always meant to be plots with infrastructure. To be able to deliver those plots, it was a necessary requisite that infrastructure be built, and, once the infrastructure is built, the plot then comes into existence for distribution. That process has been underway. What attracted my attention is the taking back. I have heard my colleagues, on the other hand, from time to time, make the nice political statements that what the previous government was doing was taking agricultural land and converting it to housing for nefarious purposes. That sounds good. It sounds effective and it might have been effective; political Opposition talk. I would like to ask my colleagues on the other hand, identify for me, of all the housing projects available to you now, because you are the Government—I think there are approximately 10,000 houses all over the country—tell me which of those projects you would not have pursued on the grounds that the land on which the project is, is prime agricultural land. When you do that, put in perspective this whole thing about the housing programme being done to the exclusion of agricultural land. I will tell you one thing. There has always been and always will be competition for land use, always will be. It has been so in the beginning and it will be so in the future. Competition for land use, agricultural and housing, is a matter of geography and history; otherwise you would never have found Diamond Vale where it is today. You would not have found Woodbrook where it is. Woodbrook was agricultural estate. In fact, Valsayn was. There is virtually no area in this country, because of the nature of our climate and our lithology—virtually every area in this country is a place on which you can grow something. Some places have soils that are good, some that are fair and some that are poor, but the bottom line is that you always will have this competition for agricultural land. What interests me is the fact that those persons who make a political career of talking about the PNM taking agricultural land in the last housing programme for housing, would point to—let us point to Oropune. It is one of the projects of which I am most proud; the Oropune Housing Project which is at the junction of Piarco. As the Minister responsible, I am most proud of that project. They would say that it was Caroni (1975) Limited's land. It appears as though all lands which were Caroni (1975) Limited lands were agricultural lands. That is not correct. Because the land fell under Caroni (1975) Limited, does not mean that it was agricultural land of the best kind or any kind for that matter. 284 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [DR. ROWLEY] If I talk about Oropune, it was the UNC—the same persons who are today making a career of talking about using agricultural land for housing—that took 150 acres of Orange Grove land and brought them into housing. That was a UNC action. It was the UNC that built the first set of houses at Oropune. They were built to relocate the persons who were involved in the Project Pride Piarco expansion programme. If you look at the Oropune Housing Project now, the easternmost part of it, you will see single unit bungalows built by the UNC, not very attractive, but that was their production. West of that, you will see the more modern, high-density arrangements built by the PNM, which is now to be occupied. Those lands, the 100 acres on which that project is now sitting, the acquisition of that land and the placing of that land into the NHA, which became the HDC, was a UNC act. Orange Grove has the highest quality soil of all of Caroni (1975) Limited lands; all. Land has a value, based on its location. When one weighs the value of that junction at Piarco, agricultural and housing, it may very well be that one can justify using 150 acres for housing. Having done that, do not go making a career of saying that the PNM used land for housing, when, in fact, it should have been agriculture. The most classic case of agricultural land in recent times, going to housing, was that 150 acres, simply because it is a certain class of soil which is about the best in the country. Because of the location, it came into housing and it was done by the UNC, in terms of putting it into the housing pool. The building of the houses was done by the PNM and we are very proud of that. Speak the truth and talk logic. The whole idea of saying that, because land fell under Caroni (1975) Limited, it automatically meant that it was agricultural land, if agricultural land means land on which anything will grow, including bull grass and whatever else, fine, but when Caroni (1975) Limited was closed, as a sugar producing entity, the first thing that was done by the government of the day was to commission a land capability study by experts. That was to determine the nature of the land which formed the Caroni (1975) Limited block of land. I do not have in front of me the document, but a document exists, produced by the experts which showed how Caroni (1975) Limited land, by virtue of the nature of the actual soils, should be categorized for land use from here on in. The bulk of the land, I think it was about two-thirds or half of it, fell under agricultural suitability. Another portion was identified, not being good for agriculture, but, because of the nature of the soil and the configuration of the land, could be used for housing or industry. Another portion was identified as being useful to be put into forestry, single culture, so there exists, for your information, in the Ministry of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs, the work of that committee that oversaw the movement of Caroni (1975) Limited out of sugar into other national developments. There is a detailed study in there showing 285 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 you a significant portion of land available for housing. The reason is that the land on which those houses we built were deemed by the experts to be poor land for agriculture. 3.30 p.m. One of the reasons sugar cane was regarded as the ideal crop for Caroni (1975) Limited lands was because sugar cane, being a grass, was one of the few crops that could have tolerated the types of soils available on much of Caroni (1975) Limited lands. Mr. Indarsingh: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. Could the hon. Member for Diego Martin West—he alluded to this land utilization study in relation to Caroni (1975) Limited lands—indicate to this honourable House if that land utilization plan which he is pointing to was shared with the stakeholders? Was the land utilization plan made public in relation to all Caroni (1975) Limited lands? Dr. K. Rowley: Mr. Speaker, I await your ruling on the point of order. Mr. Speaker: It is a point of clarification but, you see, the moment you give way—let me just clear up something. A point of order is clear. You can rise on a point of order and point to me the particular point of order. If you need to get clarification or elucidation from the Member, and he gives way, you rise. So, you were not on a point of order, you were on a point of clarification. So, I would allow the Member, in the circumstances, if he wishes to, at least address your concern, but it was not a point of order. Okay, continue. Dr. K. Rowley: Mr. Speaker, this Parliament is fast becoming a kindergarten class. [Interruption] Mr. Speaker: Hon. Members, the speaking time of the hon. Member has expired. Motion made, That the hon. Member's speaking time be extended by 30 minutes. [Hon. A. Roberts] Question put and agreed to. Dr. K. Rowley: Mr. Speaker, thank you very much, and I wish to sincerely thank my colleague, the Member for D'Abadie/O'Meara, who is the Leader of Government Business today. I would not be much longer, but let me just try to answer the question that was raised by my colleague, the Member for Couva South.

The document which I referred to was available to the public. It is a document that forms part of the process of moving Caroni (1975) Limited out of sugar into other aspects of national development. The document would have been treated with by all the persons involved in that process—public servants, Cabinet and, I dare say, the unions if 286 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [DR. ROWLEY] they were interested. I am surprised the Member for Couva South is not aware of this. I am sure this document has had no history of secrecy about it. It is a public document that has been referred to on many occasions. It is not the first time that I am making reference to it. As a former Minister of Housing, it was available to my ministry and other ministries, and public servants have spoken about it, so it is not a secret. It is a document about the land capability of Caroni (1975) Limited lands. Mr. Speaker, what has been happening is, it has not been convenient for Members to treat with the fact that these works have been done; the approaches have been proper; we have assessed the various soil; we have taken on board—I am not here pretending that I can say to you categorically that no land that fell as agricultural land ever fell to housing, but I am saying to you, the process did identify significant Caroni acreage—I am going to take a little guess here. I think it would be in the order of about 20 per cent, because it is a few years now since I have had to deal with it. It was in the order of approximately 20 per cent which was specifically identified. It was not just identified as a percentage, but the locations were identified. I commend that document to the Minister of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs, if he has not yet had the opportunity to see it, read it, study it and be informed by it. Just ask for the work of the Cabinet-appointed committee that guided the process of Caroni—let me coin a word—"desugarization". [Laughter] I think the committee was chaired by Mr. Jerry Hospedales. So, the document exists along with many others. If Members are willing to educate themselves on the basis on which these lands have moved to housing, they will see that there is available, under the rubric of "Caroni (1975) Limited Lands" significant acreage. Mr. Speaker, this is why I was concerned when I heard a Minister—I am not sure if it was the Minister of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs—of the Government said no more Caroni (1975) Limited lands would be used for housing. I do not think it came from the Minister of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs, but it is quite normal for another Minister who has no portfolio jurisdiction to make that statement. It was made by another Minister that no more Caroni (1975) Limited lands would be used for housing. That brings us to the point that, if proper assessment were done and the land was found not to be suitable for agriculture but suitable for housing, in a country as small as this, where there is a tremendous demand for land for housing, what kind of statement is that coming from a Government? The only place where you really have land for housing, and identified as such, is Caroni (1975) Limited lands in some areas. You have it available to you, and somebody makes a policy on the hoof that no more Caroni (1975) Limited lands for 287 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 housing. That is not treating with commonsense management of the country. What it is treating with is political misinformation which had been part of a campaign, and which is now being espoused as Government's policy. If you really want to treat with the problem of housing, you cannot make a statement like that. In the East-West Corridor there is a shortage of land for housing. We all know that. The demand is the greatest in the East-West Corridor, but the shortage of land is causing you to have to move out. Some of the housing that the HDC did in the Chaguanas area was on abandoned cane lands even before Caroni (1975) Limited was closed down, because the lands were deemed to be the more inferior of Caroni (1975) Limited cane lands, and they moved into housing as per proper assessment. So, I ask my colleagues on the other side to inform themselves properly before they talk, because you do not sound—[Desk thumping]—and then trying to place blame on the PNM for every single thing in this country. [Desk thumping] Sometimes it works for you, but sometimes it makes you sound very foolish. [Desk thumping] To have a Member of Parliament, who was the head of a union in Caroni, get up and ask me about this document, to me, it is quite shocking, because he has taken a number of positions on the Caroni (1975) Limited matter. One assumes that when he was taking those positions he was properly informed, and he knew what he was talking about. Clearly, he did not know and, therefore, he is somebody to watch very carefully at the ministerial level, because he will want to espouse policy based on, I do not know what, and certainly not on the information which is available to the Government. Mr. Speaker, I do not want to prolong this debate because it is going to happen again many times. We are going to acquire lands many times in the future. I hope that the Minister will take on board the need to re-examine Act No. 28 of 1994; look at the experiences that we had in the interim to see whether we need to amend that Act in light of all that he says he now knows, to see whether the law can be so improved to force the completion of acquisitions within a reasonable time frame so that we can have fairness, equity and efficiency. Mr. Speaker, I thank you. [Desk thumping] The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Hon. Dr. Surujrattan Rambachan): Mr. Speaker, thank you very much. Let me take this opportunity, at the beginning of my contribution, to extend Divali greetings to members of the Hindu community and, by extension, the national community because, indeed, Divali has become a national festival in its own right. Just the attire of everybody in this House today, across the ethnic divides, tells you how important Divali is and how much it is being recognized. 288 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [DR. ROWLEY] Let me also pay tribute to my Government for the manner in which Divali has been supported this year by the generous donation that has been given to the National Council for Indian Culture and the Maha Sabha for the celebration of Divali. My dear friends, let me congratulate the hon. Minister of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs for his presentation in the House today, and the determination with which he has set out to reform a system that needs to be reformed. Knowing the background, the tenacity and the passion with which the Minister of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs carries out his assignments, I am sure this would not be just another promise, but you are going to see that the Minister will be able to achieve what he promises. In fact, if I may say, when we came into office, there were persons who had suffered from flooding in my constituency of Tabaquite, as well as other constituencies. I went to the constituency of Tabaquite to visit with farmers to see the extent of the damages and, of course, noticed that people had lost millions of dollars, and the level of compensation was totally inadequate. Imagine a person who has a full-grown tomato tree, with at least, 10 or 15 pounds of tomato on it, but the compensation is about 53 cents or 93 cents, as I am advised, for a root of tomatoes. It takes years to compensate people even for losses of agriculture. On that occasion, I remember calling the office in Chase Village, and the person who received the call said, "You know what, the people would have to leave Tabaquite and come up here in Chase Village, and then we will see and send the officers down." I realize that, given the voice and the tone of the person, this was another callous public servant who really had no identity or, perhaps, in the wrong profession in terms of identifying with the needs of the farmers. I said to her, "Ma’am, maybe what you need to do is to send the assessors down to the community centre in Tabaquite on Tuesday and let them meet the farmers down there." I then spoke to my hon. colleague, Mr. Vasant Bharath. It was done like that. In the history of compensation to farmers, there is no other agriculture Minister who has been able to process and pay farmers as quickly as Hon. Vasant Bharath did on that occasion. [Desk thumping] Within 30 days farmers were paid in the constituency of Tabaquite and in other parts of the country. That is the approach; that is the sincerity; that is the passion; that is the excellence; that is the vision and the mission with which this People's Partnership Government is approaching the needs of people and attempting to meet those needs. So, when we say that the mission of this Government is to serve the people; serve the people; there are concrete steps that have been taken to ensure that 289 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 mission is made a reality, backed up by appropriate action. The discussion here today on this land acquisition brings into question a wider discussion on the performance of the public service on productivity and, as well, on systems and processes. This was well alluded to by both the hon. Minister and the Leader of the Opposition. You know, unfortunately, the Leader of the Opposition probably to make some political marks out of it, but let me say that the problem in the public service is twofold; one is about processes and systems and, secondly, about human capacity and will. I want to put human capacity and will together. 3.45 p.m. It is one thing to have human beings with skills, but it is another thing to have human beings with skills and will, because motivation is the multiplied effect of skills times will. If you do not have skills times will, you would not have the motivation that is necessary to go into a job to get something done. Perhaps what we need to do, in a case like this, is to map out the process; in other words, create a process flow chart as to what happens in the whole issue of land acquisition and see at each step of the process what has gone wrong. By asking and answering what has gone wrong, maybe we can make it right. I am sure that was the approach the Minister alluded to when he talked about reform of the system and reform of the processes. This discussion today on land reform is an important one because it brings into question the whole area of the performance of the public service. We need to really do something about the human side of the public service, the way in which people take on their jobs and how serious they take on their jobs. There are very, very good public servants, but you really need a total team effort. The people cannot continue to exist at the margins in the public service, just doing sufficient to keep their jobs. We have to have public servants who are ready to add value to the seats and positions they hold.

My erstwhile colleague, the Leader of the Opposition, spoke about the EMBD and, in his own way, tried to defend its development of land and the building of infrastructure. I would like the hon. Leader of the Opposition to make a visit to where these housing estates have been developed by the EMBD and examine the quality of infrastructure that has been done. He would notice that roads are collapsing, that drains are collapsing. If he went to Couva, in the vicinity of the National Helicopter Centre, he would see that no attention was paid to dealing 290 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. DR. S. RAMBACHAN] with drainage that would alleviate flooding in those areas. So those areas are now prone to flooding and the answer has been to create some small catchment ponds that cannot take the volume of water, because no attention was given to the design of those estates. It was a quick fix job, as it were. Further to that, it seems that the contractors themselves were not properly supervised and that is why you have the road collapsing. If he goes to Chaguanas, just behind Woodford Lodge, he would also see the extent to which those roads are collapsing. They collapse so quickly that you see mud just below two or three inches of asphalt, because the subsurfaces have not been done properly; that is because of poor quality supervision. When he talks about the EMBD, he must be honest about the quality of infrastructure. The hon. Leader of the Opposition is a geologist and would be au courant with soil testing. I believe I heard him say, "Show me the areas where the land has not been properly chosen for housing." The Minister of Housing and the Environment, in his first two weeks in office, on his tours, showed housing estates where the houses were all cracked up. He has made an announcement that they have to reduce the prices of houses to people, because of the poor quality of the houses. Hon. Leader of the Opposition, you would have read that. [Interruption] Dr. Rowley: Are you implying that because the house foundations were bad in that particular location for houses, it was good for agriculture? Are you implying that because the houses were cracked in that area, because of poor subsoil conditions, that makes the land good for agriculture? Hon. Dr. S. Rambachan: I am not implying any such thing. I am saying that you made a wrong decision in the first place, because you failed to do the proper soil testing in the first place. You are a geologist; you should have advised the government about proper soil testing. You ought never to have built on that soil, because it was shifting. Go to Golconda and you would see what I mean. Go to Guaracara and Reform and you would see what has happened to the houses there. You would see how shallow the pillars in that place are, so they are being washed away. Hon. Leader of the Opposition, it would be better in your interest to stand there and tell the population, "Listen, we had contractors who did a bad job; we had poor supervision and that was the reason Mr. Rao had to leave the country and run." [Desk thumping] [Desk thumping] Former Prime Minister, would you like to answer him? Advise him. Dr. Rowley: I think we are finally getting somewhere. You are talking about engineering as against suitability; agriculture versus housing. You are raising 291 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 engineering problems. The cracking of a house is an engineering problem; the foundation of a house is an engineering thing. Hon. Dr. S. Rambachan: You do not build a house on shifting soil; you do not do that. [Crosstalk] Mr. Speaker: Order, please! Hon. Dr. S. Rambachan: You make sure the soil is the kind that would retain a foundation or you design a foundation. You can only design a foundation if you have done proper soil testing, which you did not do, therefore, you have to take blame for it. [Desk thumping] You did not do it, so do not say that. Dr. Rowley: That is not the issue. Hon. Dr. S. Rambachan: You used the comparison of Oropune to say that the UNC built small houses. That is a bad comparison because you have to go back in time to when that was done. It was done because you had to solve a problem in the context of understanding the sociology of resettlement of the people of Oropune. The people of Oropune or people anywhere, would like to settle as close as possible maybe to the original communities, because of ties to those communities. In any part of the world in the resettlement of people they take into consideration the sociology of the people, how they settle, where they would like to be and the minimum displacement that they would maintain in normal life as they existed before. In that area, the people want to live in single unit dwelling houses. In Trinidad and Tobago, people have a preference for single houses. This is why Home Construction Limited, for example, in the Trincity area, chose forever to build single-unit houses, because people like their independence in their single-unit houses. If you and your government felt that people wanted to live in high rise houses, and you have done that, then you have made that choice. Maybe there are people who like to live like that, but if the people of Oropune, because of their cultural patterns and preferences, want to live in single-unit houses and that was what was required at the time and the government did that, then tribute to them that they respected the rights of the people. [Desk thumping] Dr. Rowley: The point is that it was agricultural land. Hon. Dr. S. Rambachan: You are using the wrong comparison. Dr. Rowley: The land is still agricultural land. 292 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. DR. S. RAMBACHAN] Hon. Dr. S. Rambachan: We understand there is a need for that, but we also understand that one must respect the way people like to settle. You talked about escrow accounts and you made a good point; maybe we need to find a way. I also heard you say that you piloted the Land Acquisition Act, Chap. 58:01, Act 28 of 1994, which was amended by Acts 15 and 73 of 2000. If you look at section 22 of this Act, you would see under "Compensation", that it talks about advance payment. I think you should reread this section, because it tells you that advance payments can be made. Of course, one might argue that the Act is slated in favour of the State, rather than respecting all the rights of the individual, but the Act does provide for advance payments. Section 22 says: “Where— (a) possession of land has been taken under section 4(1); or (b) a declaration is published and served under section 5(3), the Commissioner shall, subject to subsection (3) and satisfactory proof of title, if a request in that behalf is made in accordance with subsection (2), make an advance payment on account of any compensation payable under this Act in respect of that land.” It goes on to say in subsection (3): “…the amount of any advance payment…shall not exceed eighty per cent of an amount equal to the compensation as estimated to be payable under this Act by the Commissioner.” So it could be paid and the Act provides for that. As you said, it is something that maybe needs further discussion and looking at to bring a greater balance between the State's interests and those of the people whose lands are being taken away. The question of land acquisition is a difficult one for any society. Land is a prized possession. When a man owns a piece of land, he feels that he owns a piece of the world. Every citizen of this country, somehow or the other, aspires to own land. It is a form of wealth but, more than that, it is a form of security. People feel a sense of security when they have a piece of land. Land is used to leverage people's ability to grow in a material way. Acquisition of land is normally an emotional affair for those whose lands are to be acquired, that is why the process of compensation and delays in the compensation become a very important issue for people. When you look at the acquisition of land and compensation, the guiding philosophy 293 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 should be that a person must always feel, at the end of the acquisition and compensation process, that he or she is better off than before the acquisition or remains, at least, at the same point as a result of the acquisition. This is also about good governance, which really, at the end of the day, means upholding the rights of citizens with respect to their place in the society and their space in the society. It also has to do with acquisition. You referred to the Land Acquisition Act of 1994. It does lay out the process for acquisition and compensation, but the law is a funny thing. Laws are passed in Parliament, but sometimes many people do not know which laws are passed and they do not know how laws affect them. They do not know sometimes how the law can work against them or for them. I spent some time reading this Act to get familiar with this debate. I was very surprised at what was in it and how much, as a citizen of this country, I myself needed to know. Particularly, as a Member of Parliament, people coming to me about land matters like this, I needed to know about this Act. I fear that many citizens, landowners, non-landowners and potential landowners may not be aware of what this law really prescribes and, particularly, what are their rights with respect to their lands being acquired. Having read this, a case was made out in my mind for education of the public. I saw a new role for information, a new role for education about the law, the way laws are made and the involvement of people in lawmaking. Through the Parliament today and through the Parliament Channel I would like to say to people that you must not sit as an idle spectator to laws being debated and passed in the Parliament, that you must get involved. There is need for wider consultation on laws being passed in this country, if only to make people sensitive to how laws affect their lives. This is a good example of what I am talking about. Our learned former judge, the Member for St. Joseph, would tell you that ignorance of the law is not a defence. This law, for example, you would be surprised to know in Part II, subsection (2) part (b) it says that a notice shall be served, and listen to how: “…by affixing a copy…to a conspicuous part of the land whenever the whereabouts of any person who is known or believed by the Commissioner to be a person interested, are not known to the Commissioner.” In other words, someone could take that notice, put it on a stake, stake it on a part of the land and hope that you would see it. Suppose you do not see it, what is your position? Does ignorance of the existence of that notice mean that you are not responsible for the notice? I am advised that if that notice is placed there you cannot claim ignorance, you have to keep an oversight of your land, you have to keep an interest in your land. 294 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. DR. S. RAMBACHAN] 4.00 p.m. So that this is why I am saying that knowledge of the process of land acquisition is very important, because there might be cases where lands have been acquired but people do not even know that the lands have been acquired because it might have been staked out and the lands have been acquired. There is a second point that I want to make. I have been hearing within recent times of false deeds in the country where even banks have found themselves in problems where they have accepted deeds and they have used them and accepted mortgages and so on, only to discover that when the persons cannot pay and the lands are advertised in the newspapers, somebody comes and says, "But you are selling my land." Then the bank says, "But no, this land has been mortgaged to us." There are cases like that. Then what happens? This is because people have a kind of business going on in this country; it seems a business that also now involves maybe some of the regional corporations that have the tax records of the lands and so on, and they notice people have not come in and paid their land taxes for 16 years and what have you, and then they combine with people on the outside and they get into a fraudulent scheme where people are dispossessed of their lands—those lands, very valuable lands—and then mortgaged to the banks and in the process the banks do not get paid and they then put the land up for sale and then the real owners of the land turn up. I am told by the Minister of Legal Affairs and the distinguished Member of Parliament for St. Augustine that he is setting up an investigative unit in his Ministry in order to ensure that when people come to register deeds and so on, he can, at that point, discover whether fraud has taken place. Then there is another matter that has to be looked at, of course, which you would be au courant with, the whole question of how searches are done in the Red House and who supervises those searches, because there are very distinguished legal firms in this country that have presented searches to banks which they now find were, in fact, faulty, and that is how those deeds got away. So I wanted to make this point in this debate because the reform system we are talking about involves much more than meets the eye. There is another matter about land acquisition in Part II of this Act of 1994 which is very interesting. It says here in section 3(5): “The Commissioner may after fourteen days, not including Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays, from the date of publication referred to in subsection (1)(a) have elapsed and whether or not a representation has been made under subsection (3), enter upon the land for investigative purposes only 295 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

and do all or any of the following things:” So in other words, if after 14 days they have made the publication and nobody comes up and makes a claim or what have you, the Commissioner can enter these lands for investigative purposes. Listen to the things a Commissioner can do. He can: “(a) survey and take levels of any land in any locality… (b) dig or bore into the subsoil of such land; (d) set out the boundaries of the land intended to be acquired and the intended line of the works…” But this is the one that I am interested in. “(f) cut down and clear away any standing crop, fence, tree or bush, where otherwise the survey cannot be completed, the levels taken or the boundaries or line of the works marked;” The Commissioner has a lot of powers and this is why I am saying that you have to look at this Act and be sure—and maybe we need to review it—that the rights of individuals are also balanced against the rights of the State, because the role of any government in a society, yes, it is to provide for the happiness of people, but, even as we do so, we must understand that people have certain rights also. People have the right to food, to shelter, to clothing, to health care, to security, to ownership and so on, and they have the right to education; the development of their potential and what have you; but the right to ownership of land is something that people have and, in the process, if all these powers are there, we must ensure that people are also adequately protected. This is why I make the point that people must educate themselves about the law. We seem in this country to leave too much in the hands of the parliamentarians and the Government, when people must get more involved in the process. This is why one of the seven pillars of the People's Partnership Government in the manifesto is participation of the people in decision-making and the involvement of stakeholders. It is not just another political word or a political line; it is really intended to ensure that people get cognizant of their rights and that they arrive at a destiny in the future to which they have contributed, and that there are laws in the country to which they contribute, rather than laws that are imposed on them or conditions that are set up for them. So these were some points that I wanted to make in this particular debate on land acquisition here today and also to refer to the section on compensation and advanced payment, in particular, that is here. But I want to say that I am proud to 296 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [HON. DR. S. RAMBACHAN] be part of a People's Partnership Government which is looking in detail at how to improve systems and processes in order to reform the system and make it more customer-friendly. Government is only as good as it is customer-friendly to people and I have given you examples, in this case, where the Minister of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs has already been doing that in a manner that is satisfactory to the people of the country. I thank you, Mr. Speaker. [Desk thumping] The Minister of Food Production, Land and Marine Affairs (Sen. The Hon. Vasant Bharath): Mr. Speaker, in winding up this debate I just want to touch on a couple of the points raised by the hon. Member for Diego Martin West and the Leader of the Opposition. One of the issues that the Member spoke about was the issue of blockages in the system and the bureaucracy involved. I want to reinforce the point that my colleague from Tabaquite made, that ultimately the buck stops with us. I do not believe it is fair of us to blame bureaucrats in the system. We are charged with the responsibility of running the country; we are in Government and, therefore, the buck stops with us and it is for us to ensure that whatever bottlenecks there are, we are in a position to clear those bottlenecks to deal with the issues and to be able to create the quality of life that we have spoken of for our people. The issue of the shortage of surveyors, I do want to agree that apparently there are only two surveyors in Tobago and, as a direct result, there have been those issues. I want to assure this honourable House that this is an issue that we would be tackling frontally, this issue of shortage of surveyors, because it has created issues and we want to ensure that, the next time we come to this honourable House to be able to debate the issue of land acquisition, we are not talking about the same problems that we are talking about today. I want to give the Member for Diego Martin West my personal assurance that the issue of the Carenage Health Centre; I would personally intervene to ensure that this matter is brought to a speedy conclusion. It is unfortunate, as you say, that as representatives of the people in government that matters have, unfortunately, to be brought directly to us to be resolved. Unfortunately, that is where we are at this point in time and we will deal with as many of those as are brought before us. So I want to give you my personal assurance that that matter I will deal with personally. The Member raised some valuable points. The issue of the escrow fund is a good point, similar to the manner in which solicitors and lawyers operate when their clients enter into a contractual arrangement, that moneys are put into an 297 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 escrow account so that both sides of the fence, both people entering into the contract, are aware that there is a valid contract, not just because of the signatories to the contract but for the fact that the participants have put their money where their mouth is, and it gives a level of comfort. Therefore, it is a good point. The issue of time limits for valuations is also a relevant point, because, as I raised in my presentation, we have a situation where valuations may have been done 30 years ago and if the claimant is now being paid 30 or 40 years later, clearly, the valuation would be not just inaccurate but obsolete for today's valuations. So these are some of the changes that we would obviously want to have a look at in terms of making amendments to this particular piece of legislation. The issue of the EMBD, the point that you made with regard to Caroni lands, I do actually have a copy of all of the EMBD's projects over the last five years. I have them listed here and I have the classes of soil on which these projects were conducted. I can share this with you; I will send it to you. Let me, first of all, preface what I am going to say by saying I have not read the Land Use Report; I have not seen the Land Use Report, but what I will tell you is that several of these—I will say at least 40 or 50 per cent of the projects that were conducted and entered into by the EMBD were on soil types that were classified between one and three. Therefore, it means that those were very good agricultural lands; some of the best agricultural lands that we have in Trinidad and Tobago.

The further issue I made with regard to the projects that the EMBD entered into was the sense that there was some sort of indecent haste, because there was a bunching of these contracts valued at $1.1 billion that took place immediately after the date of the election was announced and culminating on May 29, which is five days after the election was fought and lost at that point in time. In fact, the dates range from April 19, 2010 to May 29, 2010; $1.1 billion worth of contracts were awarded in that 90-day period; and there may be a legitimate— Mr. Sharma: There can't be; there can't be. Sen. The Hon. V. Bharath: I am not casting any aspersions. I am suggesting that there may be a legitimate reason. However, I am suggesting that there appears to have been an indecent haste in awarding all of these contracts within that 90-day period. That is the only issue I raise with regard to that particular matter.

I also want to deny any statements that may have been attributed to me that Caroni lands cannot possibly be used for housing. Clearly, the land under Caroni ownership was 298 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [SEN. THE HON. V. BHARATH] over 80,000 acres of land and if we were to take a decision that we are not going to put housing down on any Caroni lands at all, we will not have very much land available to us to put housing. The issue is, what we must do, particularly in light of the issue with regard to food security, not just in Trinidad and Tobago, but in the Caricom area as a whole, where there are many countries worldwide today that are no longer able to export the products that we are accustomed buying. For example, you may know in Russia they banned the export of wheat; in Pakistan they have banned the export of a number of food crops, simply because of the massive flooding they have had in Pakistan; simply because of the bush fires and the major droughts that they have had in Russia. Those countries have banned exports, and we are accustomed purchasing products from many of these countries that are now looking after their own food security; their own food nutrition and, as a direct result, the People's Partnership has taken a decision that we are not going to allow good, fertile, arable class 1, 2 and 3 soils, where it is practical, to ensure that those lands do not go into housing and that we will find appropriate lands for housing just to be in a position to ensure that we can grow more food for our people. You will know that last year we imported $4 billion worth of food; the year before, $3.8 billion; the year before that, $4.2 billion worth of food. We all know that food is a major driver of inflation in Trinidad and Tobago, running at about 17 per cent. Food inflation alone is over 30 per cent. The inflation of fruits is running at 63 per cent, simply because we are not growing enough of our own food. The simple issue of demand and supply has kicked in and we also now have high costs of imported food coming into Trinidad and Tobago. 4.15 p.m. So there are millions of issues that have created a situation where we must, as a nation, look after our food security and our food nutrition. That is the reason why the Government has taken a decision that, where practically possible, we will not be using good, arable, fertile lands for the purposes of housing, not that housing is not important. It is extremely important, but we must find other areas to put our housing units down. I want to say briefly that there are certainly flaws in the existing legislation— the Land Act of 1994—and it has given rise to some of the problems that we are experiencing now. Some of the issues I touched on in my presentation with regard to, particularly the issue of planning and consultation, the Member of Parliament for Tabaquite, hon. Dr. Surujrattan Rambachan, talked about the issue of having 14 days after the notice period where the Commissioner can actually enter into your lands and do all kinds of things with all sorts of powers available to him. 299 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

The fact is, if indeed there was more planning and consultation; if in a number of countries you have public meetings with regard to land acquisition in certain areas, that would get around and circumvent the issue of a landowner who may be absent, who may be living abroad, who may have died and his children would not have known, because you would have much more public discourse, wider discourse, on the issue of acquiring a piece of land, particularly where we are talking about very large parcels. As the Member for Tabaquite said, the issue of land, let us be all fair, it is a very emotional issue. In Trinidad and Tobago, particularly, everybody—I have to tell you when I was a Member of Parliament, the most significant problems I had, the most frequent problems I had—[Interruption] Dr. Rowley: When were you ever a Member of Parliament? Hon. V. Bharath: No. When I was a representative—[Interruption] Dr. Rowley: What do you know? Hon. V. Bharath: Elected representative of Parliament. I am sorry. Forgive me. The most frequent problem I had was the issue of people encroaching on other people’s land. Sometimes the fence is moved by a foot and they want to pull a cutlass or a gun just for a little piece of land. So land is a very emotional issue. There is something in Tobago that we learnt, and maybe we in Trinidad should try to copy. My Permanent Secretary and I met with the Tobago House of Assembly a few weeks ago and I learnt a very valuable lesson. It is something, as I say, that may be worth replicating in Trinidad and Tobago. To be able to bring more lands into agriculture and more productive use, and that is in Tobago, as you may know Member for Diego Martin West, letters of comfort are given for a five-year period for agricultural lands and, therefore, if after five years you are not farming the land, you are not cultivating the land, the land is reverted back to the State, which is really the intention. The intention is to ensure that the land is under productive use. So if you are not using it, why hold on to the land just to be able to pass it on to your child or this one or that. It becomes contentious over a period of years. In fact, if you are using it after five years, the officers come and check that you are using it, it is under cultivation, and then it is renewed for a further five years with a letter of comfort. You do not actually own the land. It is State land that you are using for a period of time to earn an income for yourself. I thought that was a very good idea to ensure that only those lands that were actively and productively being used were actually given out for the use of the farmer. So it is something we 300 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 [SEN. THE HON. V. BHARATH] need to look at, but again, we come back to the issue of culture. We culturally are accustomed to expecting a 30-year lease or a longer lease, and we “get vex” if we get a shorter lease even though the purpose for which the lease would have been granted in the first place was really for agricultural purposes. So, the issue of public meetings and consultations is something that we could definitely look at. There is another issue. You talked about location, location, location, in terms of how land is valued, but you could have two parcels next to each other in same area; one could be full of fruit trees, or one could be full of pepper plants, or one could be full of teak, and is it valued exactly as the empty piece of land next to it because—[Interruption] Dr. Rowley: [Inaudible] Hon. V. Bharath: Yes, but currently, because it is 5,000 square feet of land in this area and 5,000 square feet next to it, it is valued as the same piece of land because of the location. Therefore, we need to be in a position, possibly, to look at the benefits that could have been derived from having planted on those lands and there must be a value to it. If you move a business, for example, it is not just the land that you are paying for. You have a businessman who may have developed goodwill over the period of years, and there is a loss of income involved. All of those things need to be possibly incorporated in the valuation of land. So there are a lot of issues and I think we want to "relook" at this, but I think the major issue is the issue of compensation. The biggest issue here is the issue of compensation and the time delay involved in concluding these transactions. I raised the point in my presentation where I suggested that possibly there should be a time frame within which, if the State fails to conclude the acquisition, then the entire thing could be aborted. Therefore, that forces the State to be in a position to conclude the transaction in a speedy time frame. There are several issues that we have before us. It is a thorny issue, it is an emotional issue, Mr. Speaker, but these are issues that are not insurmountable the fact that we know what they are. I think we need to continue to work diligently to ensure that we correct these issues. I want to give my commitment to this honourable House that I should leave this House having gotten a fuller knowledge of the issues. I will go back and, as I said, when we come to this House the next time around to discuss these issues of co-opting lands, that we will be in a far better place and a far better position to come to the House with decent recommendations possibly for amendments to this Act. 301 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

So, Mr. Speaker, in closing, I want to wish the entire Hindu community a happy Divali. I want to wish all of my colleagues here the same. I see all the ladies are resplendently dressed and I commend them for it. I want to take this opportunity to wish the national community, Sir, yourself and all concerned a happy Divali. I hope we all get home safely in light of the weather conditions. Thank you very much. [Desk thumping] Question put and agreed to.

Resolved: That this House approve the decision of the President to acquire the lands described in Appendix 1 for the public purpose specified. APPENDIX I

PUBLIC PURPOSES FOR DESCRIPTION OF LAND WHICH TO BE ACQUIRED 1. The parcel of land comprising 94.5 square The widening of the junction metres or 1017.2 square feet more or less, of Bacolet Street with the situate at the south western corner of Bacolet Claude Noel Highway. and Main Streets, in the Town of Scarborough in the Ward of Tobago and described in the Schedule and coloured raw sienna on a plan of survey signed by the Director of Surveys and dated 18th July, 2006 executed under Survey Order No. 11/2002 and filed in the Lands and Surveys Division; SCHEDULE A parcel of land comprising 94.5m2 or 1,017.2 square feet more or less, situate at the south- western corner of Bacolet and Main Streets, Scarborough, in the Ward of Tobago and said to belong now or formerly to Lennox Phillips. The parcel of land is more particularly shown coloured raw sienna on a Survey Plan filed in Book 1361 as Folio 20 and surveyed under Survey Order No. 11/2002, which is 302 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

filed in the vault of the Lands and Surveys Division, Old General Post Office Building, Wrightson Road, Port of Spain. 2. The parcel of land comprising approximately Land required for a public 741 square metres or 7,976 square feet, situate purpose at No. 77 Seventh Street, Barataria, in the Ward of St. Ann’s, in the county of St. George, and described in the Schedule and coloured raw sienna on a plan of survey signed by the Director of Surveys and dated 28th August, 2009 and filed in his office is required for a public purpose: the expansion of the Barataria Health Centre. SCHEDULE A parcel of land comprising approximately 741 square metres or 7,976 square feet, situate at No. 77 Seventh Street, Barataria in the Ward of St. Ann’s, in the county of St. George, and said to belong now or formerly to Trevor Benjamin, Rodney Benjamin and William Iton. The parcel of land is more particularly shown delineated and coloured raw sienna on a Survey Plan filed in Book 1551 as Folio 25, in the Vault of the Lands and Surveys Division, Old General Post Office Building, Wrightson Road, Port-of-Spain. 3. A strip of land comprising 3,367.1 square Land required for a public metres and situate at Mt. Pleasant, in the purpose Parish of St. Patrick, in the Ward of Tobago described in the Schedule and coloured raw sienna on a plan of survey signed by the Director of Surveys and dated 21st November, 2000 and filed in his office, is required for a public purpose: the construction of the Claude Noel Highway. SCHEDULE 303 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

A strip of land comprising 3,367.1 square metres situate at Mt. Pleasant, in the Parish of St. Patrick, in the Ward of Tobago and said to belong now or formerly to Cicely McPherson-Shaw and Brian V. McPherson. The land is more particularly shown coloured raw sienna on a Survey Plan filed as J.C. 181 in the Vault of the Lands and Surveys Division, Old General Post Office Building, Wrightson Road, Port-of-Spain. 4. A parcel of land comprising 1,920.1 square Land required for a public metres more or less, situate at Lambeau in the purpose Parish of St. Andrew, in the Ward of Tobago and described in the Schedule and coloured raw sienna on a plan of survey signed by the Director or Surveys and dated 13th June, 2005 and filed in his office is required for a public purpose: the construction of the Claude Noel Highway. SCHEDULE The parcel of land comprising 1,920.1 square metres more or less, situate at Lambeau in the Parish of St. Andrew, in the Ward of Tobago and said to belong now or formerly to Cecilia Evans-Ojoe. This parcel of land is more particularly shown delineated and coloured raw sienna on a Survey Plan filed in Book 1234 as Folio 216, in the Vault of the Lands and Surveys Division, Old General Post Office Building, Wrightson Road, Port-of Spain. 5. The four parcels of land together comprising Land required for a public 24,6998 hectares (61.03 acres) situate at purpose Plymouth, in the Parish of St. David, in the Ward of Tobago and described in the Schedule 304 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

and coloured raw sienna on a plan of survey signed by the Director of Surveys and dated 8th April, 2009 and filed in his office are required for a public purpose: for housing and Government facilities. SCHEDULE Four parcels of land together comprising 24,6998 hectares (61.03 acres), known as Adventure Estate, situate at Plymouth, in the Parish of St. David, in the Ward of Tobago and described as follows: (a) 11.5644 hectares belonging now or formerly to Martin Schneider; (b) 0.8782 hectares belonging now or formerly to Martin Schneider; (c) 6.0774 hectares belonging now or formerly to Chilo Rooplal Singh; and (d) 6.1798 hectares belonging now or formerly to Chilo Rooplal Singh. These parcels of land are more particularly shown coloured raw sienna on a Survey Plan filed as J.R. 12 in the Vault of the Lands and Surveys Division, Old General Post Office Building, Wrightson Road, Port-of-Spain. 6. A parcel of land comprising 1,9256 square Land required for a public metres (4.89 acres), situate at Warwick Street, purpose Newlands Village, in the Ward of Guayaguayare, in the County of Mayaro and described in the Schedule and coloured raw sienna on a plan of survey signed by the Director of Surveys and dated 1st March, 2005 and filed in his office is required for a public purpose: the construction of the Guayaguayare Secondary School. 305 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

SCHEDULE The parcel of land comprising 1.9256 hectares (4.89 acres), situate at Warwick Street, Newlands Village, in the Ward of Guayaguayare, in the County of Mayaro and said to belong now or formerly to Mr. David Timothy. The parcel of land is more particularly shown coloured raw sienna on a Survey Plan filed as J.D. 300 in the Vault of the Lands and Surveys Division, Old General Post Office Building, Wrightson Road, Port-of-Spain. 7. Two parcels of land comprising 1,480.7 square Land required for a public metres and 367.4 square metres respectively, purpose situate on the western side of the Uriah Butler Highway, in the Borough of Chaguanas, County of Caroni, and described in the Schedule and coloured raw sienna on a plan of survey signed by the Director of Surveys and dated 29th October, 2008 and filed in his office are required for a public purpose: improvement works to the Uriah Butler Highway.

SCHEDULE Two parcels of land comprising 1,480.7 square metres and 367.1 square metres respectively, situate on the western side of the Uriah Butler Highway, immediately north of Cunupia River Canal, Charlieville, in the Borough of Chaguanas, County of Caroni and said to belong now or formerly to Mr. Balgobin Rattan and Mrs. Routee Rattan. These parcels of land are more particularly 306 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

shown coloured raw sienna on a Survey Plan filed in Book 1361 as folio 63 in the Vault of the Lands and Surveys Division, Old General Post Office Building, Wrightson Road, Port-of-Spain. 8. Three parcels of land together comprising Land required for a public 1,566.3 square metres situate at All Fields purpose Trace, Lowlands, in the Parish of St. Patrick, in the Ward of Tobago and described in the Schedule and coloured raw sienna on a plan of survey signed by the Director of Surveys and dated 19th January, 2007 and filed in his office are required for a public purpose: the construction of the Claude Noel Highway. SCHEDULE Three parcels of land comprising 1,566.3 square metres situate at All Fields Trace, Lowlands, in the Parish of St. Patrick, in the Ward of Tobago and described as follows: (a) a parcel of land known as Lot 14, comprising 727.1m² and said to belong now or formerly to Norman Anthony Bishop; (b) a parcel of land known as Lot 15, comprising 504.m² and said to belong now or formerly to Merlyn Kennedy; and (c) a parcel of land unnumbered, comprising 334.3m² and said to belong now or formerly to Norman Anthony Bishop; These parcels of land are more particularly shown coloured raw sienna on a Survey Plan filed in Book 1351 as folio 43 in the Vault of the Lands and Surveys Division, Old General Post Office Building, 307 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

Wrightson Road, Port-of-Spain. 9. Two parcels of land together containing Land required for a public 709.6 square metres and situate at No. 67 purpose and No. 69 Oxford Street, Port of Spain, in the Ward of St. Ann’s, in the County of St. George and described in the Schedule and coloured raw sienna on a plan of survey signed by the Director of Surveys and dated 9th February, 2007 and filed in his office are required for a public purpose: the expansion of the Oxford Street Health Centre.

SCHEDULE Two parcels of land comprising 709.6 square metres situate at No. 67 and No. 69 Oxford Street, Port of Spain in the Ward of St. Ann’s in the County of St. George and details as follows:- (a) a parcel of land situate at No. 67 Oxford Street, Port-of-Spain comprising approximately 354.6 square metres and said to belong now or formerly to the Estate of Egber L. Ellis; and (b) a parcel of land situate at No. 69 Oxford Street, Port-of-Spain, comprising approximately 355 square metres and said to belong now or formerly to Sorzanoville Limited. These parcels of land are more particularly shown coloured raw sienna on a Survey Plan filed in Book 1361 as Folio 44, in the Vault of the Lands and Surveys Division, Old General Post Office Building, Wrightson Road, Port-of-Spain. 10. A parcel of land comprising 734.01 square Land required for a public 308 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

metres more or less, situate at Lady Hailes purpose Avenue, in the Ward of Naparima, in the City of San Fernando and described in the Schedule and coloured raw sienna on a plan of survey signed by the Director of Surveys and dated 23rd July, 2009 and filed in his office, is required for a public purpose: the construction of the new Fire Station.

SCHEDULE A parcel of land comprising 734.1 square metres more or less, situate at Lot 1, Lady Hailes Avenue, in the City of San Fernando in the Ward of Naparima owned now or formerly by the Tourism and Industrial Development Company of Trinidad and Tobago Limited and leased to Federal Tyre Services Company Limited for thirty (30) years with effect from 14th November, 1995. The parcel of land is more particularly shown coloured raw sienna on a Survey Plan filed in Book 1551 as folio 47 in the Vault of the Lands and Surveys Division, Old General Post Office Building, Wrightson Road, Port-of-Spain. 11. A parcel of land comprising 123.7977 hectares Land required for a public (305 acres, 3 roods, and 24 perches) more or purpose less, situate at Moriah in the Parish of St. David, in the Ward of Tobago and described in the Schedule and coloured raw sienna on a plan of survey signed by the Director of Surveys and dated 28th January, 1982 and filed in his office, is required for a public purpose: the management and protection of the Courland Watershed. SCHEDULE A parcel of land comprising 123.7977 hectares 309 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010

(305 acres, 3 roods and 24 perches) more or less, situate at Moriah in the Parish of St. David, in the Ward of Tobago and said to belong now or formerly to Reginald Morshead. The parcel of land is more particularly shown coloured raw sienna on a Survey Plan filed as D.E. 68 in the Vault of the Lands and Surveys Division, Old General Post Office Building, Wrightson Road, Port of Spain. 12. A parcel of land approximately comprising Land required for a public 404 square metres or 4,349 square feet, purpose situate along Shirvan Road, in the Parish of St. Patrick, in the Ward of Tobago and described in the Schedule and coloured raw sienna on a plan of survey signed by the Director of Surveys and dated 23rd July, 2009 and filed in his office is required for a public purpose: road development. SCHEDULE A parcel of land comprising 404 square metres or 4,349 square feet, situate along Shirvan Road, in the Parish of St. Patrick, in the Ward of Tobago and said to belong now or formerly to Denyse Wallis and Gail Kelshall. These parcels of land are more particularly shown coloured raw sienna on a Survey Plan filed in Book 1551 as folio 46 in the Vault of the Lands and Surveys Division, Old General Post Office Building, Wrightson Road, Port-of-Spain. ADJOURNMENT The Minister of Sport and Youth Affairs (Hon. Anil Roberts): Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that this House do now adjourn to a date to be fixed. Most likely it will be Friday, November 12, 2010—because of our Divali celebration— at 1.30 p.m. We would like to put the Opposition on notice that the Government 310 Land Acquisition Friday, October 29, 2010 intends to debate the Bail Bill and the Children’s Life Fund Bill, 2010. Divali Greetings Mr. Speaker: Hon. Members, before putting the question for the adjournment, we all know that Divali will be celebrated in the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago on November 05, 2010. I now invite the hon. Members to extend greetings to the community. The hon. Prime Minister. The Prime Minister (Hon. Kamla Persad-Bissessar): Mr. Speaker, the conquest of good over evil, right over wrong principles, and honour over baseness is the essence of all religious pursuits. So with respect to Divali, the time- honoured Hindu festival of lights is an integral aspect of the social fabric of Trinidad and Tobago. For those who follow the scripture, it says that Divali is the return of Lord Rama to the kingdom after defeating the demon king. Mr. Speaker, Divali has ongoing modern relevance to its significance because its philosophical meaning and underpinning is germane to the conduct of all aspects of life. It is a time of spiritual rebirth of enlightenment of tyrant and prosperity. It also symbolizes best practice, goodness, decency and mobility. It denotes fairness, equity, tolerance and justice. That is why this annual festival is so central and essential, not only to the devotees of the Hindu faith, but to all nationals of the God fearing society in Trinidad and Tobago. In a marked way, it reaffirms our country's devotion and commitment to integrity, fair play and probity. It reasserts our fundamental belief, in decency, virtue and goodness. Divali 2010 takes place in the afterglow of the avowal of the people of Trinidad and Tobago for good governance, public accountability, genuine decency and honesty in public affairs. So it is against that backdrop, there is a special lustre, Mr. Speaker, to the festival of lights which we will be commemorating next Friday. On behalf of the Government and those of us here on this side, I extend the very best wishes to all the people of Trinidad and Tobago, with the profound hope and expectation. The sparkle of the deyas will illuminate us in all aspects of our life. So, on behalf of the Government and certainly I am sure the Opposition Leader will speak as well, but all of us, we say may the significance and meaning of Divali guide us each day of the year as we say Shubh Divali. Hurricane Tomas (Possible Impact) The Prime Minister (Hon. Kamla Persad-Bissessar): Before I take my seat, 311 Divali Greetings Friday, October 29, 2010

Mr. Speaker, it may be opportune for me to put the House on notice and certainly the national community, with respect to the ongoing expected weather system that is making its way which will likely affect us later today. I know that steps were taken to have the school children sent home earlier in the day on the advice of ODPM. Many workers are making their way home, some have already done so. The Met Office and the ODPM are advising that we go on alert for the weather system today and tomorrow. As with the Met Office, we have seen in the past what could happen or not happen. So, I think it is very important for us to be put on alert, for the national community to be on alert. I see my colleague is smiling, and I say, I am advised, it is important for us to remember safety and protection in terms of our homes and our families. We will say more as the afternoon progresses in terms of the actual weather system and the expected impact. Thus far, we are being advised: gusty winds, heavy rain falls and, therefore, some flooding and also landslides. This is what we are being advised. We will keep the nation updated through the advisories that are going out from the ODPM as the evening and tomorrow progresses. Mr. Speaker, I thank you very much. [Desk thumping] Divali Greetings Dr. Keith Rowley (Diego Martin West): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While not dressed as resplendently as the hon. Prime Minister, I wish to associate myself with all the comments she made with respect to the Hindu festival of lights which we celebrate here in Trinidad and Tobago, the festival of Divali. Mr. Speaker, we spend a lot of time in Trinidad and Tobago criticizing ourselves, but too infrequently do we acknowledge the strength of our character of our nation. One of the strengths of Trinidad and Tobago is that we all live together coming from different origins. There was a time when Divali was not celebrated as a national festival in Trinidad and Tobago, but we acknowledged somewhere along the way as an independent nation, that we could learn from and join those persons abroad, in India, by here in Trinidad and Tobago celebrating that festival as persons following the Hindu faith, and in fact as it is common in Trinidad and Tobago, not limiting it only to those persons. We are a multicultural society, multiethnic society, living in peace and harmony and we as a people should be proud every year that we can celebrate these festivals as national festivals. 4.30 p.m. Mr. Speaker, when we look at what is happening elsewhere, where probably 90 per cent of the problems around the world can be traced to religious 312 Divali Greetings Friday, October 29, 2010 differences, in Trinidad and Tobago we see religion as a means of bringing us together and we celebrate a record number of holidays in the world. Against that background, to those of us who are not Hindu devotees but who look forward to Divali, to everybody in Trinidad and Tobago, I say Shubh Divali. Mr. Speaker: I would like to join with you in extending to the Hindu community in particular, and the national community in general, Happy Divali Greetings, 2010. Divali is the festival of lights symbolizing the victory of righteousness and the lifting of spiritual darkness. I take the opportunity to wish the people of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago and each Member and his family, Happy Divali Greetings. Happy Divali Greetings, 2010. Question put and agreed to. House adjourned accordingly. Adjourned at 4.31 p.m.