Presidential Views: Interview with Hyman Bass

Every other year when a new AMS president takes office, the Notices publishes interviews with the in- coming and outgoing presidents. What follows is an edited version of an interview with AMS presi- dent Hyman Bass, whose term ended on January 31, 2003. The interview was conducted in Novem- ber 2002 by Notices senior writer and deputy editor Allyn Jackson. Bass is professor of mathematics education and Roger Lyndon Collegiate Professor of Mathematics at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. An interview with AMS president elect David Eisenbud will appear in the March 2003 Notices.

Notices: You have had a lot of contact with math- than anything before in history. We are a much larger, ematicians during your presidency. Based on those more complex community. A lot of the problems contacts, what do you see as the biggest challenges facing mathematics are the persistent problems of facing the profession? maintaining a large professional community and Bass: There are two perennial issues. One has to maintaining its standards and norms. We also have do with resources to support the research enter- to make sure that supporting resources from pub- prise. That is a constant campaign with federal and lic institutions remain robust and that our commit- public agencies. And the other is whether we are ment to serve the public needs remains strong and drawing enough talent into the field to maintain effective. Related to this is capacity building, the quality and productivity. need to bring talent into the field. We need to make The Carnegie Foundation [for the Advancement the significance and importance and beauty of the of Teaching] has begun an initiative to examine field apparent to the public and to make mathe- the doctorate1 and it has commissioned essays by matics as a profession attractive to talented young people in different areas. I wrote one of the essays, people. in which I draw attention to a distinction between Notices: What is the AMS doing to try to make mathematics as a discipline and mathematics as a the profession more attractive? profession. The “discipline” refers to our tradi- Bass: The AMS has a proud record of interven- tional concept of the field as a body of knowledge ing when outside conditions put some of our val- and an intellectual heritage to which people con- ued cultural institutions at risk, something that it tribute: They generate new knowledge, they war- has been able to do through a combination of using rant and document that knowledge, they assimilate corporate income and member contributions. When it, they record it in the literature, and they trans- the community perceived gaps in federal programs mit it through education. This has happened for mid-career support, the AMS established the throughout the history of mathematics in differ- Centennial Fellowship program. At the time of the ent forms and at different levels of intensity. Until collapse of the Soviet regime, the U.S. mathemat- the middle of the twentieth century, mathemati- ics community contributed generously to protec- cians, as a community, were sociologically pretty tive measures for the remarkable Russian mathe- much at the level of a village. There were very small matical community. At a time when public numbers of highly dedicated people whose in- institutions held back on resources to encourage volvement in the field grew from a love of knowl- talented and highly motivated young people—for edge and a philosophical commitment. example, termination of the NSF Young Scholars Mathematics has now grown into a profession. Program—the AMS took some small but important This is driven partly by the growing recognition of the initiatives to fill in the gaps in those resources, for importance of mathematics in social and economic example by creating the AMS Young Scholars Fund. needs and partly by the building up of a professional, This “Epsilon Fund”, which is symbolically and ma- intellectual community that is vastly larger in size terially quite important, enhances support for en- richment programs for young people. This kind of 1 See http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/CID/ gesture is very congenial and recognizable to math- index.htm. ematicians because, in our educational roles, nur-

232 NOTICES OF THE AMS VOLUME 50, NUMBER 2 turing young talent is in some sense our favorite Notices: Are the “math activity. In some ways these enrichment programs wars” over? And if so, who are at odds with prevailing ideologies in education, won? which argue that such programs are elitist. Bass: No, they are not Strangely, there is not the same disposition to- over. Right now two things ward encouraging high talent in athletics, or music. are going on. One is a contest Actually, everyone benefits from very high per- of ideas: what are the prob- formance in mathematics; it is a public good. A lot lems in education (most peo- of people mistakenly believe that anything dedi- ple agree that the funda- cated to very high performance is inherently in- mental problem is that U.S. equitable. Not only is that wrong, but I think it is students are not becoming a disservice to underprivileged students in educa- mathematically proficient), tion because the premise is that somehow they are and what are the best ideas not going to be capable of performing in the same to help solve them? The way. other is a contest of power The AMS has spent a lot of time on building a and authority. Here the issue is not, What are the best better public image of mathematics, to make it Hyman Bass. better appreciated by the public: getting better ideas? but, Who is best qual- press coverage, writing popular material, and stag- ified and who is appropri- ing various kinds of public displays of what math- ately authorized to make decisions about what ematics does. But we fail to recognize adequately should be done? For example, some mathematicians that we have a fantastic slave audience right at believe that research mathematicians, with per- our feet. Much of people’s attitudes toward the haps some advice from a few friendly school teach- discipline and toward the profession is formed in ers, are the sole and final authority in fashioning policies in school mathematics education. (The his- the classrooms that we control. Of course we do tory of school reforms authored mainly by math- not want to conduct our classrooms as PR enter- ematicians, for example the New Math, is hardly prises. But implicitly, the way we instruct provides something to celebrate.) Unfortunately a lot of en- huge opportunities for giving our field a better ergy is spent on the latter kinds of issues. public face. We need to push the politics into the back- Saying that does not offer a solution to the ground and try to frame things so that ideology problem, because doing the kind of teaching and does not play such an important role. The funda- instruction that would really make a difference is mental problem is that the learning and teaching a pretty demanding professional undertaking in its of mathematics is not happening at the quality own right. This is a part of our professional cul- levels and scale that we need. Everybody agrees that ture to which, historically, we have not greatly at- that is pretty much what the problem is. So one tended. We have assumed that if you have expert strategy is to focus attention on the specific edu- knowledge of the subject matter, good expository cational problems. Deborah Ball and I have tried to skills, and a reasonably friendly personality, then do this in our work. For example, we show a group you have all the necessary resources for effective of mathematicians and educators a video of a math instruction. Education, like clinical medicine, is a class. In the video a teacher is trying to teach some profession of human improvement. The latter re- topic. A kid says something, and it is obviously quires not only a knowledge of biochemistry, drugs, mathematically significant, but it is not clear what and bedside manner, but also a detailed and prac- is going on in the kid’s head and it is not clear what ticed knowledge of the human body and the ways the teacher should do with it. This is the kind of it can malfunction. Similarly, mathematics teach- decision making teachers have to do every day, ing requires not only a sound and comprehensive and it draws on mathematical knowledge and knowledge of the subject matter and good pre- understanding. If we present a scenario like that sentation skills, but also a knowledge of student to an audience of mathematicians and educators, thinking and of how to usefully assess student un- ideology completely disappears. The range of opin- derstanding of what is being taught. ions and views is totally unpredictable, based on Education is a body of knowledge and a field of public stances people have taken. This shows two expert practice where there are things to be learned. things. First, there is less disagreement about real Unfortunately, given the way the political envi- fundamentals than one might think, and there is ronment has evolved, there is a tendency in many a lot of earnest interest. And secondly, it makes peo- quarters to completely discredit the field of edu- ple realize that there is a huge amount of work to cation or not even to acknowledge that it exists, be done before we understand these problems well. much less that we have something to learn from Notices: What is the AMS doing in education it. So this is difficult territory right now. right now?

FEBRUARY 2003 NOTICES OF THE AMS 233 Bass: The official instrument for educational is- The first step of the MIME project is to assemble sues in the AMS is the Committee on Education. It a group of mathematicians who are interested in the has been carrying on some very good work. It func- possibility of contributing in these ways. The sec- tions in a mode somewhat parallel to the Committee ond step is to conduct workshops to provide pro- on Science Policy. It meets with representatives of fessional development to these mathematicians. organizations and federal agencies to find out For example, suppose we want to focus on cur- about things happening in the field, it undertakes riculum development. That is a field in which there initiatives of its own, and it stages presentations by is a lot of expert knowledge. The workshop could experts at the Annual Meetings and venues like address such questions as, How are curricula ac- that. In contrast with the MAA [Mathematical tually used by teachers and in schools? What char- Association of America], the AMS has not been a very acteristics of them besides mathematical accuracy active agent in education. But I think the AMS has are important to consider? How do you contextu- done quite a bit to raise awareness in the field. alize mathematics problems appropriately? And the third step relates to the fact that in some The AMS has collaborated with other organiza- sense we are marketing something. We have to tions on projects like the Mathematical Education make it known to the potential client communities, of Teachers [MET] report.2 That is a natural site for the people who make policy decisions in educa- us to be involved, because part of the instructional tional environments. We also have to make sure that mission of mathematics departments consists of what we are doing meets their needs. The AMS courses for pre-service teachers. Mathematics de- plans to apply to the federal government for fund- partments feel pretty strongly that those courses ing for the MIME project. should be taught in mathematics departments, not Notices: Just to sum up, can you say a few words in schools of education. On the other hand, the level about how you see the AMS overall? How is it func- of quality of attention that has been dedicated to tioning? What does it need to work on further? What those courses has been highly variable. As the de- is it doing well? bates in education have heated up, we have come Bass: I think the AMS is just great. It is one of to recognize that the mathematical knowledge of my favorite organizations, period. It is extremely teachers is really a crucial factor. This recognition well run. [Executive Director] John Ewing is an draws a lot of focus on the quality of those courses. absolute gem. The leadership, the morale of the The MET report was a way of mobilizing the field staff, the whole culture of the organization is to make it clear publicly, not only to the outside absolutely fabulous. I think it is underappreciated but to our own community, that this is a very by the field. The Washington office, Math Reviews— important problem site that has to be met re- each of these is exemplary in professional quality sponsibly and that resources are needed to help and effectiveness. the profession address it. As I mentioned earlier, in my essay for the Another effort is a project we are tentatively Carnegie Initiative on the Doctorate, I focus on the calling MIME, for Mathematicians in Mathematics distinction between mathematics as a discipline Education. The premise is that research mathe- and mathematics as a profession. The professional maticians have important things to contribute to organizations are a big part of that professional life. public education. These contributions might be in, How does a new doctorate, someone coming into for example, developing or critiquing curricula or the field, think about membership in the AMS? I assessment instruments, or in professional devel- think the AMS does a huge amount that benefits that opment for in-service teachers to strengthen their person, but often in invisible ways. This brings to mathematical background. This activity is not un- mind John F. Kennedy’s invocation, “Ask not what like other kinds of interdisciplinary work, where your country can do for you—ask what you can do mathematicians can function as consultants: They for your country.” I think we have to get across that message, that we are part of a community, and a work with other people to try to understand the na- whole lot of what holds that community together ture of the mathematical aspects of the problems and really keeps it going and healthy is carried by at hand, and they try to communicate so that the the professional organizations. In some sense, the mathematics can be understood and used by other invisibility of the AMS is a virtue. This is similar to people. In areas other than education, we take it how a well-run department protects young people for granted that to do that kind of work produc- from administrative burdens. The young people tively you need to know something about the other should appreciate what is being done for them and field. We have not treated education that way. know that some day they are going to have to do the same for the next generation. We have to develop 2 See “Spotlight on Teachers”, by James Lewis, Notices, April a more holistic sense of what we are as a profes- 2001, pages 396–403; and “Two Reactions to The Mathe- sion and as a professional community. matical Education of Teachers”, by Amy Cohen and Steven G. Krantz, Notices, October 2001, pages 985–91.

234 NOTICES OF THE AMS VOLUME 50, NUMBER 2