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Procedure and Privileges Committee PROCEDURE AND PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE TRANSCRIPT OF MEETING TAKEN AT PERTH FRIDAY, 18 MAY 2007 SESSION TWO Members The Speaker (Mr F. Riebeling) (Chairman) Mr P.W. Andrews Mrs D.J. Guise Mr R.F. Johnson Mr M.W. Trenorden _______________ Procedure and Privileges Friday, 18 May 2007 - Session Two 1 Hearing commenced at 1.35 pm BOWLER, MR JOHN JAMES MANSELL Member of the Legislative Assembly, examined: The CHAIRMAN: Thank you for coming in. There are a couple of things I need to go through at the start of the evidence. It is the same stuff that I went over the last time you were in. The committee hearing is a proceeding of Parliament and warrants the same respect that proceedings in the house itself demand. Even though you are not required to give evidence on oath, any deliberate misleading of the committee may be regarded as a contempt of Parliament. Unless otherwise directed by the committee, witnesses’ evidence is public and may be published, including on the Parliamentary website, immediately after the conclusion. Have you read the notes provided? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: Yes, I have. The CHAIRMAN: Have you read the witness information sheet? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: Yes. The CHAIRMAN: The process is the same as last time. I will ask a series of questions that have actually been compiled and are on behalf of all the committee members. They will have the capacity to ask questions if I have missed something or whatever. At the end of those questions you will be asked if you wish to sum up or make a statement. Do you understand that? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: Yes. The CHAIRMAN: In relation to an email of 17 June 2004, PPC 2, it appears from that document that you and Mr McRae were present when the idea of an inquiry was mentioned by Mr Brown. Is that correct? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: That is right, yes. I do not know if we were there together the whole time. I think Tony may have joined me. Yes; down the bottom, there: “I immediately called Tony McRae over”. Yes. I started it off. The CHAIRMAN: On 26 June, both you and Mr McRae were given a copy of a letter from PMA. Sorry, I will read that again. On 23 June 2004, both you and Mr McRae were given a copy of a letter from PMA to Mr Brown. Is that correct? Perhaps we can have a look at that. It is PPC 31, 33 and 34, as I understand. Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: Yes. The CHAIRMAN: The letter deals with problems from PMA that some of the Windimurra infrastructure was being dismantled or destroyed. Is that correct? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: That is right. The CHAIRMAN: Was that the first time that issue had been raised with you? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: By those? I am pretty sure there were a couple of newspaper articles in The West Australian . The CHAIRMAN: Had you spoken to Mr Grill about that prior to - Procedure and Privileges Friday, 18 May 2007 - Session Two 2 Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: No. The CHAIRMAN: So, in essence, about that time - was that the first time you can recall anyone specifically raising it? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: Yes; I cannot recall, having read The West Australian, if I had raised it with someone else. I cannot say if it was the first time. The CHAIRMAN: Can we have PPC 32? You then advised Mr Grill and Mr Burke that the matter would be discussed in the committee and that you would make a press statement after that meeting. Is that correct? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: Yes. The CHAIRMAN: And it was to be backed up by Mr McRae. Is that correct? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: I would assume that the media would go to the chairman of the committee. The CHAIRMAN: Did Mr McRae know that you had passed on that information to Mr Grill, and was he supportive of that? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: What information? The CHAIRMAN: The information contained in the email - that he would back it up. Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: I cannot recall, but I would imagine he would have, because I think he had a similar attitude towards the whole Windimurra matter, and he was there when we discussed the need for an inquiry in the first place. The CHAIRMAN: So was there a press release issue? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: I cannot recall. The CHAIRMAN: On 3 August 2004, you were informed that Mr Smith had some concerns about the proposed visit of the committee to the Windimurra site. Do you recall that? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: No. I know there were concerns about that time at the rate at which the assets there were being stripped. The CHAIRMAN: No, this is about the committee visiting the mine site - that Mr Smith had some concerns that the committee was visiting the Windimurra mine site. If you move down the page, it is the one from Mr Bowler to Mr Grill. - sorry; Roderick Smith. [1.40 pm] Mrs D.J. GUISE: In the centre of that, Mr Bowler, you will see an email, because it is a passage of email, if I may, Mr Speaker - The CHAIRMAN: Yes. Mrs D.J. GUISE: You will see that there is an email in the centre of that that is actually addressed to yourself and Mr McRae - Dear Tony and John; John and Tony - I think that is to where the Speaker is directing your attention. The CHAIRMAN: Do you recall that? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: No. The CHAIRMAN: In it I think Mr Grill suggested to you to make a similar approach to Mr McRae. Do you know why you said that? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: Where is that? Procedure and Privileges Friday, 18 May 2007 - Session Two 3 The CHAIRMAN: Is that the document - 17? Mr M.W. TRENORDEN: It is not in 17. Mrs D.J. GUISE: I think it was a question. The CHAIRMAN: Just bear with me for a second. I am sorry about that, my question is factually incorrect. Have we got old document 10. Perhaps we will put that up. This is what the question is in relation to. That is when you suggest to Mr Grill that he should raise the same issue with Mr McRae. Do you have any recollection as to why you would suggest that? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: I do not even know why Roderick Smith would have been concerned that we were going. The CHAIRMAN: The other email sets out his concerns, does it? The email indicates that Mr Smith was concerned that Xstrata may get a free kick, so to speak, if the committee went to the mine site. Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: I still do not know how he would think they would get a free kick or what he would mean by a free kick. Our thoughts were that we were being told that the assets were being stripped and we wanted to go there and see it for ourselves. I would have thought that it was the way, but anyway. The CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is it in fact correct to say that you and Mr McRae worked very closely together on this inquiry? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: Yes. No closer - all the time I was on the Economics and Industry Committee there was never occasion where the political divide became apparent so, therefore, I did not work any closer with him than I did with John Day or Mick Murray. In saying that, because he was the chairman, if I wanted something done, I would go to him. The CHAIRMAN: Did you routinely share information about the mine closure and endeavours to reopen it with the chairman? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: In general conversations, yes, and, so, with the other members. Probably more so with Tony McRae because he was the chair. The CHAIRMAN: So you shared information with the other members of the committee as well? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: Yes. The CHAIRMAN: Is it fair to say you had a closer relationship with the chairman than the other members of the committee? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: On the Windimurra matter? The CHAIRMAN: Yes. Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: As a friend, I am a far closer friend to Mick Murray, the member for Collie. On Windimurra, because he was the chair, yes, maybe I spoke to him. I cannot remember the conversations and depth or level of them back three years ago. If I was wanting something done, I would naturally go to the chair. Mr R.F. JOHNSON: Mr Bowler, were you aware that the chairman would have been aware of your close associations and your communications with Julian Grill in relation to what was going to be happening and what was happening in the committee? Mr J.J.M. BOWLER: I think so. Yes, pretty sure. I know I made no secret of it. I remember Bernie Masters, a chappie, a chemist I think he was, he often talked about to get information from to help him. I think John Day, at one stage, might have said that he Procedure and Privileges Friday, 18 May 2007 - Session Two 4 contacted Colin Barnett, because of Colin’s knowledge of the mining industry and also his role in setting up Windimurra in the first place, in much the same regard.
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