1
The Big Interview Episode Number: 205 Episode Title: Crosby, Stills, and Nash Description: Dan Rather goes one on one with GRAMMY® winners Crosby, Stills and Nash to talk about the music that defined a generation.
ACT 1
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH (singing)
I’ve got an answer, I’m going to fly away....
DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)
TONIGHT… ON THE BIG INTERVIEW… CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH…THEIR TUMULTUOUS LIVES...AND SIGNATURE SOUNDS…
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH (singing)
What have I got to lose?
RATHER
I'm a journalist, obviously, and I'm always interested in getting the story straight. Can we settle on how Crosby, Stills and Nash started?
DAVID CROSBY AND GRAHAM NASH
No.
RATHER
There's no agreement?
CROSBY, NASH AND STEPHEN STILLS
No.
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THREE SENSATIONAL SINGERS WHO WERE THERE AT WOODSTOCK. CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH… ON THE BIG INTERVIEW.
2
ACT 2 DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THEY WERE THREE SINGERS WHO ALREADY HAD SUCCESSFUL CAREERS… DAVID CROSBY AS PART OF THE INFLUENTIAL 60S ROCK BAND THE BYRDS… STEPHEN STILLS IN BUFFALO SPRINGFIELD… AND GRAHAM NASH IN THE LEGENDARY BRITISH ROCK GROUP THE HOLLIES … BUT IN LOS ANGELES IN THE SUMMER OF 1968… CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH GOT TOGETHER FOR THE FIRST TIME FORMING ONE OF THE FIRST SUPER-GROUPS …. AND FROM THE INFECTIOUS STRAINS OF THEIR FIRST HIT SINGLE, “MARRAKESH EXPRESS,” IT WAS MAGIC
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH (singing)
Don’t you know we’re riding on the Marrakesh Express, don’t you know we’re riding on the Marrakesh Express...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THE HARMONY AMONG THE THREE SOON BECAME LEGEND...AND INSPIRED ITS OWN NAME...THE CALIFORNIA SOUND.
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH (singing)
All aboard the train, all aboard the train...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
BUT THEIR MUSIC QUICKLY CHANGED WITH THE TIMES….IN THE SUMMER OF 1968, AMERICA WAS IN TURMOIL. VIETNAM WAS RAGING. ANTI-WAR SENTIMENT WAS ON THE RISE… “LONG TIME GONE” WAS WRITTEN IN RESPONSE TO THE ASSASSINATION OF ROBERT F. KENNEDY...
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH (singing)
It’s been a long time coming, it’s gonna be a long time gone...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
SOCIAL COMMENTARY AND CRITICISM BECAME A KEY ELEMENT IN MUCH OF THE GROUP’S SONGWRITING.
CROSBY, STILLS, NASH AND YOUNG (singing)
What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground...
3
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
BY THE FOLLOWING SUMMER, CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH HAD ADDED NEIL YOUNG AND HIS DISTINCTIVE VOICE.
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH
It’s getting to the point where I’m no fun anymore.....
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THE GROUP PLAYED WOODSTOCK. IT WAS ONLY THEIR 2ND LIVE PERFORMANCE TOGETHER. BUT IT BECAME A SEMINAL MOMENT IN THE HISTORY OF ROCK AND ROLL.
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH
Sometimes it hurts so badly I must cry out loud...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
EVEN THOUGH THEIR VOICES BLENDED SEAMLESSLY WHEN THEY SANG, OFF STAGE, ONE BAND MEMBER’S VOICE SEEMED TO DRAW THE MOST ATTENTION - GUITARIST AND SONGWRITER -- DAVID CROSBY.
DAN RATHER
In preparing for this interview, I was told that, they said, "He’s the unpredictable one." Why would they say that?
DAVID CROSBY
I have a reputation for being looney and-- irreverent and-- experimental. And-- and it's, you know, I-- I think it's a fair description. I-- (LAUGH) I wouldn't-- I wouldn’t dispute it at all.
RATHER
Well, you used the word, "experimental." Sometimes, being experimental can get you into trouble.
CROSBY
It has. And sometimes it's gotten me into areas, you know, that I would not otherwise have-- have made it to. For the human race, it's-- it's been the same way. It's been a good thing and a bad thing. For me, experimenting-- experimenting with drugs wound up terribly. For me, experimenting with musical forms wound up being the biggest open door that I hit-- in my 4 musical growth, you know? So I think, in the long run, it's a quality that the human race really needs and-- and should nurture.
RATHER
Well, let's talk about the negative side of it. You said there w-- there is a positive side, the experimenting with new musical forms. But on the bad side, let's talk about the highlights or lowlights, if you will. (LAUGH) How-- first of all, how did it start?
CROSBY
Well, we were a bunch of people trying to blow ourselves loose from the '50s, from Pat Boone and white bucks, you know, from Father Knows Best. That was and age we wanted to leave behind and maybe rightly so. So when the idea of smokin' a joint, you know, came along, we thought, "Wow, this, hey, (WHISTLE) this is pretty wonderful." And we embraced it. And we thought, "Wow, this is gonna give us all kinds of wild, new ideas." And maybe it did, maybe it didn't. Maybe the ideas woulda come anyway. But we loved it. Then we encountered hard drugs, which of course, as you know, although, the government doesn't seem to know it-- are completely different. Pure poison. And-- they pretty much destroyed my life over a period of time, or I destroyed my life with their help. And-- that's where experimenting can get you in a lotta trouble. That's like experimenting when you're trying to climb up Half Dome without a rope, not a good place to be.
RATHER
Well, I'm smiling, but it wasn't funny at the time.
CROSBY
No, it wasn't funny at all--
RATHER
It was serious.
CROSBY
I wound up in a Texas prison. How funny could it be?
RATHER
And you were in prison for how long?
CROSBY
A year. 5
RATHER
Was that the low point?
CROSBY
Yeah. I-- you know, it's low point and high point. I wrote that judge who put me in that prison a thank you letter later on. And I said, "I know that, every day, people show up in front of your court that you've seen before and that you've given a sentence to." And he wasn't-- a mean guy or-- he was a guy that was trying to do a good job, hard guy but fair and trying to do a good job. And I said, "This one time, I wanted you to know it worked. "I'm married. I'm working. I'm sober. I'm being tested, sober. I'm going to AA. I'm happy. My life's workin'. The whole thing actually worked the way it was supposed to. And I just thought it might help you if you knew that, every once in a while, you win one."
RATHER
If you hadn't gone to prison, if the judge hadn't sentenced you to prison, do you think you'd be alive today?
CROSBY
No. I-- I-- I can say that with almost absolute certainty. I would not have.
RATHER
So in that sense, going to prison saved your life.
CROSBY
I think it did.
RATHER
Let's talk about-- your liver transplant-- is public knowledge, very well known. Now, some people question whether the abuse of drugs and alcohol, whether anybody who does that should be moved to the back of the liver transplant line.
CROSBY
You know, I-- I can't be the one to define whether-- what the value system should be on that. I know that, when they gave me the transplant, I was nine years sober. And I know that they would not have given me the transplant if I weren't nine years sober. 6
Saying that-- that I, you know, didn't deserve it because I, you know, was responsible for giving myself the disease-- I don't know if I would agree with that. 'Cause I did learn. And I did change. And I did, you know, make the effort. And boy, is it an effort.
RATHER
I'm a great believer you are what your record is. And your record shows that you did straighten up. And you did become, did you ever, a productive member of society. What turned it around for you and when?
CROSBY
I think one of the biggest factors was my wife, Jan. You know, we went downhill together. And when I got arr-- you know, when I gave myself up, I surrendered myself to the authorities and willingly went to prison-- she went into treatment. And when I got out, we got together. And I think a lot of it was her support and her saying, "Let's go to a meeting," and finding, you know-- other things of value to put our time and effort into, rather than trying to find more drugs.
RATHER
You've been married how long?
CROSBY
Jeez. 36 years? And-- I-- I think we're incredibly lucky that we're still together. Because we-- we would-- I would not be alive if she hadn't been there to help me through it.
RATHER
In music, as in almost every other field, it's very difficult to sustain a career anywhere near as long as you and the others have been able to sustain your careers.
CROSBY
I-- I can tell you why I think that is whether it's Crosby, Stills, and Nash with three writers or Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young with four writers, we had a wide palate, a much wider palate, to paint from than most bands would have. And all four of us can sing lead. All four of us can sing harmony. All four of us can play. And I think the songs- are really the-- the defining-- meat of the matter. Without songs that are about something and that make you feel something, if I can't sit down and sing you a song and make you feel something, I don’t think I really have a song. And I think that's been our strength. We've lasted 40 years. There has to be something. And it's certainly not our looks.
RATHER
7
Well, you've never been-- afraid. Indeed, you seem to have been eager, from almost the very start, to mix political activism with music. And to those who say, "That's not the role of the musician. They should make their music, make good sounds," and-- and, in quotation marks, "I can get behind that. But when they start getting politically active, that's when I get off the bus," unquote. To them, you say what?
CROSBY
Well, you know, there's an awful lotta people who feel that way. I remember when we played-- in Atlanta the last time, last tour that we did with CSNY, and Neil had a song called, Let's Impeach the President for Lying, which the president most assuredly did do—one third of the audience walked out. And we're talkin' one of these big, blimp-hangar-sized buildings. It was a lotta people.
CROSBY, STILLS, NASH & YOUNG (singing)
Let’s impeach the president for lying, let’s impeach the president for hijacking...
CONCERT GOER
Bullshit!
CROSBY
I think that we have as much right to stand for what we believe in as you do, as you have, as you did-- in a very exemplary fashion for many years.
RATHER
Thank you.
CROSBY
Compliment--
RATHER
Thank you.
CROSBY
--intended. I think everybody does. I understand that we have more reach. We can spread word further than-- than the guy driving the bus. But that doesn't deprive us from the right to stick up for what we believe in. I think it gives us a greater responsibility to you know express it carefully and in a prepared and in an intelligent way rather than just ranting rhetoric but I think we have 8 every right to. And I'm more than willing, as-- as you have always been, to accept the responsibility and take the job seriously and try to make sure I get it right and do it right.
RATHER
There must be voices, or tell me if they aren't, managers or promoters, who say, "Listen, could you-- could you stay away from that controversial stuff? Because we don't want a third of the audience walking out of us. It's bad for business."
CROSBY
Yes. There are and have been people who said that to us. They no longer manage us or-- (LAUGH) or are our agents. The people who-- that we work with understand who we are. They give us-- they give us an interview like this, instead of one where somebody says, "Well, what's your favorite color," or, "Do you date blondes?" You're not gonna ask me that. You're gonna ask me things that will test me f-- to come up with a cogent, you know, lucid answer.
RATHER
Then I'm gonna try to put you to the test.
CROSBY
Please do.
RATHER
With your legendary musical past, you really have reached icon level. That's a compliment to you, but it's one not that I give you. It's one that you've earned. But at this age and stage, who are you and what are you?
CROSBY
Grateful. I'm a very grateful man. You come very close to death, it's a very educational experience. I came very close. And I-- and it-- it teaches you to treasure what you've got, every breath you take, every-- I'm startin' to quote Sting. That's not good. (SINGING) "Every bone you break." It teaches you to treasure it. And-- and I do. And I-- I am a very happy guy. I've had a tremendous amount of luck. And you know, I-- I mean, according to the odds, I shouldn't be here. I have three fatal diseases, none of which they have a cure for.
RATHER
And those-- those are?
CROSBY
9
Hepatitis C, heart disease, I've got five stents in my heart, and-- diabetes, which is r-- really a tough one, you know? It's-- a disease of paying attention. And paying attention is sort of an adult quality. I'm not sure I really still qualify as an adult, (LAUGH) still trying, but--
RATHER
When you're not making music, what do you like to do?
CROSBY
Think up more music. (LAUGHTER) I-- I find that the muse will come and visit you if you open the door. So I put a guitar in my hands every night. I sit down at the piano. I sit with a pad. If I get three words in a row that I-- that seem to have something to them, I write 'em down. I spend time, a lot of time, with my family, 'cause it's a treasure. And-- I'm sure you feel the same way. And-- you know, I've always been a sailor. I've been a sailor my-- since I was 11 years old. So I-- I really do love that. I have an old Alden schooner-- sailed it all around the world. And I really love doing that. I’m going to sail it to Hawaii again I think.
RATHER
Wow, that’s a big sail to Hawaii.
CROSBY
Yeah.
RATHER
Well again, I thank you very much for your time. It's been great.
CROSBY
It's an honor to talk to you man--
RATHER
Listen, it's an honor to talk to you. And I-- I wish you many more years. You know-- you're still pretty young by my standards. (LAUGH)
CROSBY
I feel good. You know, I try very hard to stay alive. You know, I go to a gym and work out. I read constantly. I'm still tryin' to grow. I would like to be learning something new and growing the day that I die.
CROSBY, STILLS & NASH (singing) 10
Will you come see me? Thursdays and Saturdays...what’ve you got to lose...
ACT 3
CROSBY, STILLS & NASH (singing)
Got out of town on a boat going to Southern Islands...
DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)
STEPHEN STILLS IS CONSIDERED THE MUSICAL HEART OF CROSBY, STILLS & NASH...A VIRTUOSO AT A VARIETY OF INSTRUMENTS, HE WAS NAMED BY ROLLING STONE AS ONE OF THE GREATEST GUITARISTS OF ALL TIME... HE IS ALSO A MEMBER OF THE SONGWRITER’S HALL OF FAME PENNING SUCH ICONIC TUNES AS FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH WHILE PART OF BUFFALO SPRINGFIELD...
BUFFALO SPRINGFIELD (SINGING)
It’s time we stop, hey, what’s that sound, everybody look what’s going down...
CROSBY, STILLS & NASH (SINGING)
You make it hard....
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
SUITE JUDY BLUE EYES ABOUT HIS THEN-GIRLFRIEND, FOLK SINGER JUDY COLLINS, AND LOVE THE ONE YOU’RE WITH - JUST TO NAME A FEW...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
BUT THE LIFE OF STEPHEN STILLS HAS NOT BEEN JUST ABOUT ACCOLADES, ITS HAD ITS SHARE OF LOW NOTES AS WELL.
STEPHEN STILLS
The end of it-- the-- the end of my enjoyment of my success happened-- December 8th-- 1980. And I believe I poured myself into a bottle of whiskey for about ten years. And-- pretty much missed the '80s. I mean, the John Lennon, the trauma of John Lennon being shot in such a ridiculous fashion just took-- took a great deal of the pleasure out of it for me. And now the whole nation is armed. I-- I-- I think I'm (LAUGH)-- I think I'm well within-- a certain sense of- - of-- tranquility to rema-- to keep to myself. I-- I-- I just-- there are those that-- that really crave the spotlight. You know, the-- besides, you know, other than just singing or playing. I like the 11 stage, but the spotlight following 'em around and all this thing of the-- of this modern age just-- it just-- it drives me to distraction, I must say.
RATHER
Well, it-- and it's well known that you seldom do interviews. And you don't particularly like to do interviews.
STILLS
No. I can get-- I can get downright rude, (LAUGH) particularly when they're-- when the questions are-- are so banal that-- that it’s just "Why are we talking about this?" Sex, drugs and rock n’ roll it’s such a cliché you know?
RATHER
Well, what question-- what question in interviews do you think should be asked that doesn't get asked very often, if at all--
STILLS
What motivates you? Do you sense or do you think about overly the impact on society that these might have? Do you understand the difference between a clever tune and sloganeering? And I'd say we crossed that line a few times, but-I don't wanna be a propagandist. I-- I-- that's why, For What It's Worth is-- so enig-- enigmatic. It-- it doesn't-- it doesn't really come down on either side. It's about being mistreated by the police at home. And it's also-- was a little message and a shout out to the boys over in the 'Nam who were trying to-- just get through the day, you know.
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH DOESN’T EVEN USE ITS TITLE PHRASE IN THE LYRICS. THE SONG IS MUCH MORE EASILY RECOGNIZED BY ITS CATCHY HOOK.
BUFFALO SPRINGFIELD (SINGING)
Stop, what’s that sound, everybody look what’s going down?
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
WRITTEN BY STILLS WHILE PART OF THE SHORT-LIVED ROCK GROUP BUFFALO SPRINGFIELD THE SONG BECAME AN ANTHEM OF THE 60S... AND WAS QUICKLY ADOPTED AS A PROTEST SONG IN THE STRUGGLE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS.
RATHER
12
What inspired you to write that?
STILLS
I came up over a hill in Los Angeles and went down Laurel Canyon and they were having a funeral for a bar. And now this place was a-- had been just a little bungalow in the middle of a sort of triangular block. But it, of course, spilled over into the-- into the-- thoroughfare. And about under L.A., you know, Los Angeles city ordinance says it's a public nuisance, you know. You're obstructing a public thoroughfare.
RATHER
Well, that's what-- I want to get the picture here. This was-- a big party, if you will. It wasn't a protest movement--
STILLS
Yeah. It was a-- it was a funeral for a bar. Beer from--
RATHER
A funeral for a bar.
STILLS
Now being from New Orleans, that's a very natural event. If there's a favorite watering hole, and it's about to close down, then everybody comes to say goodbye to it--
RATHER
And that's what this was. But it was overflowing into the streets--
STILLS
Yeah. It was called Pandora's Box. And-- and it was a little place that would have-- have live music. And it was-- used to be a house so there was--
RATHER
All right. So the funeral for the bar was spilling into the streets.
STILLS
So the cops show up in battalion force.
RATHER 13
And that's what prompted-- the writing of For What It's Worth--
STILLS
Yeah. Yeah. And although the first line is "a man with a gun over there telling me I've got to beware" is both-- those policemen and it's the V.C. over when you're on patrol in a rice paddy.
RATHER
Now did you write this down in a notebook or a piece of paper or you just keep it in your head--
STILLS
I been fiddling with this thing, this line for several days and I looked at this and first thing is my sense of security said, "Turn the car around and go the other way." And-- you know, because that's more trouble than we want any part of. And the other reason for saying, "Turn the car around," is I wanted to get to a guitar right then because the thing was there and it took me no longer to write it than it took me to actually write the sentences on the paper. It was writing itself on the way home.
RATHER
Well, that-- it's no secret-- that-- that you suffer-- hearing loss. Millions of people in this country, including myself-- have-- hearing loss at-- at one stage or another. And I think it might be inspirational for them-- those who-- those of us who do suffer hearing loss to hear you talk about it a bit.
STILLS
Well, the first thing I would say is that contrary to popular-- popular or convenient logic that standing in front of that big old amplifier is what done it. But actually, I remember at least half of my relatives were, you know, from both sides of the family, there was hearing loss and congenital hearing loss and damage in-- in the-- in the-- within the family.
RATHER
Oh, so you don't buy the idea that it's entirely because of rock and roll and listening to such loud music all this time--
STILLS
Oh no. My-- my-- my hearing deficiency was discovered by, here’s socialized medicine for Huey P. Long when he's governor of Louisiana, he got himself a trailer and he put a doctor's office in it. And he sent it to every elementary school in the state of Louisiana, in every parish. 14
And it happened by mine when I was nine years old. And they said, "You have a hearing loss and it's going to get worse. It's right in the speaking range."
RATHER
When you were nine years old.
STILLS
Yeah. So I am now-- it's going to get-- I am-- (LAUGH) I am at the "it's going to get worse" part. As a matter of fact, well past the (LAUGH) "it's going to get"-- I'm profoundly deaf in this ear and about-- oh I'd say-- I've got about a 30% loss on this side.
RATHER
Now, do you or do you not worry that they affect your ability to sing. After all, your voice depends greatly on your hearing ability--
STILLS
Well, only if you're working with bat ears, which is what I call David Crosby. 'Cause he will notice if I slip even a millimeter out of tune. Of course, I will too when I hear the recording later but it doesn't appear to me now that I've got this nice vibrato that I-- that I cover it up with. But it-- that-- what's really irritating me now is that it's gotten so bad that I can-- I've got to be in a pretty close, reflective room to be able to hear my acoustic guitar. But the other thing is that this is not specific to musicians. This is a nation-wide thing because of just the noise of life in America. Cars and trucks and-- and sirens and horns honking and trains and just, you know, all the whistles and bells of modern-day life. There is a general hearing loss that's becoming more and more pronounced. And the equipment that they are building to address this malady is-- I would call it barbaric in its simplicity. It's just a-- it's just a little bitty microphone with a couple of-- amplifiers in it. And it-- and it's woefully inadequate to the job because the human body can hear from anywhere from 25,000 cycles wit-- up where dogs can hear all the way down to about 60. But the frequencies-- they actually harmonize with each other in order to produce a whole experience that in your neurological and physiological and also spiritual. That's what music does, you know.
RATHER
Well, you've written so many songs and great songs, but--
STILLS
I've written good songs. I've written some albatrosses. Those things that just follow you around and on about the thousandth performance, you realize how absurd it is. If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with. You want to slap yourself--
15
STEPHEN STILLS (SINGING)
If you can’t be with the one you love honey, love the one you’re with...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
STILLS PICKED UP THE PHRASE FROM FELLOW MUSICIAN BILLY PRESTON WHO GAVE HIS BLESSING FOR STILLS TO USE IT. LOVE THE ONE YOU’RE WITH WAS THE MOST SUCCESSFUL OF STILLS’ SOLO CAREER AND HAS BECOME PART OF THE CROSBY STILLS NASH REPERTOIRE.
RATHER
I want to ask you about your colleagues of so long. At base, who is David Crosby?
STILLS
He's one of the most wonderful and-- and-- and just delightfully, surreal people that I've met in my life and wonderfully articulate. In the only sense, I've lost my hearing and he grew that mustache and it's gotten all white and I can't understand half of what-- what he says. And he's tr-- very soft-spoken -- he's provided me with endless hours of, I mean, fall-on-the- floor, belly laughs.
RATHER
And how about your friend Graham Nash? Who is he?
STILLS
I do not consider myself, you know, qualified to define. But-- I would say that I learned an awful lot about craftsmanship and about attentiveness and about passion and about tenacity from him. And he's just a lovely, generous, wonderful, beautiful guy. I mean, how-- what a blessing. Both of them.
RATHER
What a blessing indeed. We're near the end here. What question have I not asked that I should have asked you?
STILLS
I can't think of a thing. I think you've done a marvelous job of-- of discerning what we-- what we're about. Because it's not so much that we wan-- we're going to change the world. It's we want to convince everybody that it's possible. And we're about the joy of making a wonderful noise together.
16
CROSBY, STILLS & NASH (SINGING)
I think it’s time we stop, children, what’s that sound? Everybody look what’s going down
ACT 4
GRAHAM NASH (SINGING)
Looking at the world through the sunset in your eyes…
DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THE THIRD VOICE IN CROSBY STILLS AND NASH IS THAT OF GRAHAM NASH, WHOSE PATH TO AMERICAN ROCK AND ROLL STARDOM BEGAN IN SMALL TOWN IN ENGLAND.
RATHER
Well, tell me-- how does-- a British young man become part of a group that's so synonymous with American culture?
GRAHAM NASH
American rock and roll music. When I first heard Buddy Holly, and the Everly Brothers, and Elvis, and Fats Domino, and Jerry Lee Lewis, my life was over. I knew what I wanted to do. The Beatles were successful, of course. And they opened up giant, enormous doors that every single band wanted to run through. You know, when they first had their hit record and-- and conquered America, that's what we wanted to do.
RATHER
W-- this was-- the Hollies, they were a tremendously successful British band. What was it like when you first played in the U.S.?
NASH
1We thought that we were gonna-- do our 45 minutes of dynamite. You know, we got to the Paramount in-- Times Square in New York City in Easter of 1965 on the Soupy Sales Easter Show. And the-- stage manager says, "Okay, what two songs are you doing?" "Two songs? We came all this way to do two songs?" Yeah, but it's six-- six times a day. And there's-- 12 other people on the same act, you know? So it was very strange. We had to let go. We thought we knew what we were doing in our English way. But when we came to America, we had to let go. I don't know whether you remember in Times Square, there was that camel high up that blew smoke rings. That was fantastic to a kid from Manchester. I had never seen anything like that in my life, right? A real hamburger? People that would deliver food to you? This was paradise. 17
Oh yeah. No, we-- (LAUGH) I knew where I wanted to be the moment I set foot in America. I- - I-- I climbed up the nearest palm tree when I went to Los Angeles. And I told Allan Clarke I was never going back.
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
ALLAN CLARKE AND GRAHAM NASH WERE LONGTIME CHILDHOOD FRIENDS WHEN THEY STARTED THE HOLLIES.
THE HOLLIES (SINGING)
Bus stop, wet day, she’s there asking...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
NAMED AFTER BUDDY HOLLY, THE GROUP HAD A LONG STRING OF HITS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ATLANTIC -- INCLUDING THE 1966 SINGLE “BUS STOP” - BUT EVENTUALLY NASH WAS READY TO SING A DIFFERENT TUNE…
RATHER
Well, why did you leave?
NASH
The music. I had heard me, and David, and Stephen sing. As a musician and as a lover of harmony, it was completely a unique sound to me. We-- you know, the Byrds, and the Buffalo Springfield, and the Hollies were very decent harmony bands. But this was something different. When David, and Stephen, And I put our voices and blended them together, before they hit the microphone, we knew that it was something very, very unique and very different. So it's the power of that vocal blend that we got to within 40 seconds of singin' with each other. 40 seconds.
RATHER
Incredible that it was that quick.
NASH
Yeah, yeah. Nobody sounds like us when we’re on it...nobody in the world.
RATHER
In your autobiography you said, "The unique sound that we make, it's like the pull of gravity to the center of the earth."
18
NASH
Yes. That's how important music is to me. I think music is incredibly important in people's lives. That's why it saddens me that, you know, many school budgets are-- are-- the first thing that they cut is the music program, you know, when it's-- it's-- it's proven that kids learn more, get into less trouble, get into-- fewer gangs, you know, stay in school longer if there's music in the schools.
RATHER
You are absolutely convinced that music is-- an essential element of education.
NASH
And of communication between people, yes. Somebody asked me a question last night. I was doin' a book signing and so-- and somebody said, "Would you have made more music and would you have made better music had you been straight all these years?" Obviously, my-- in my autobiography, I go into great detail about our-- our drug use. Because there is no denyin' what happened. You know, we were high for most of our lives at that point. And b-- so there is no real answer to that question. Because we will never know.
RATHER
When did the drug use start? Did it start with marijuana?
NASH
Yes. Yes--
RATHER
And-- and about when did that start?
NASH
For me, mid-'68 when I first came to Laurel Canyon. And-- we had-- a dear friend, Cass Elliott, who was-- the singer with the Mamas and Papas. And she was the woman that changed my life completely. She was the one who introduced me to Crosby, who would then, of course, introduce me to Stills and then, of, Neil. Cass Elliott was a very interesting-- person in-- in-- in rock and roll. She was very much like Gertrude Stein. She would gather people together from different disciplines to talk about what’s going on in their lives, how can we make this better; she was a real-- firecracker, Cass. And had I not met her, my entire life would have been completely different.
RATHER
19
So you say-- you think mid '68 is when--
NASH
Yes--
RATHER
--you started smoking dope?
NASH
Right.
RATHER
And that led to harder stuff?
NASH
It led to-- it led to cocaine. I have never tried heroin. I don't ever want to. It doesn't make sense to me, that you would be able to take a drug that could kill you instantly. I never thought that-- we would die smoking dope. I never thought that we would die snorting cocaine actually. One of the most disturbing parts of putting my life down in-- in the book, was-- was how-- how people would perceive Crosby. The only time I ever got a call from the legal department at the publishing was of-- of a story I-- I-- I told about David, who actually sold his Mercedes for-- for cocaine and the dealer died. And David stole into the house while the dealer was still dead, and stole his pink slip back for the Mercedes, and then resold the car for more cocaine.
RATHER
Well, I can imagine that the book publishers' lawyer would be--
NASH
Oh yes--
RATHER
--all over that.
NASH
20
They were all over that. But-- I-- I told Crosby and I said, "This is what I am saying because that's what you told me happened." And he said, "Don't change a word." He admitted it. He was a man about-- you know, his drug use.
RATHER
I'm thinkin' about how few people would have taken that attitude. It tells you a lot about David Crosby.
NASH
It tells you a lot about David, yeah. David Crosby is one of the most unique people I know. And I know a lotta people. He's an unbelievably unique, rare musician. He’s very jazz influenced. Strange chords, strange tunings, things I-- I personally wouldn't-- as a writer, would never think of, you know? He is a very smart man, David Crosby. And at a point in my life when I was leaving the Hollies and they were allowing me to doubt myself as an artist that maybe I'm not as good as I think I am, or I don't know what I'm doing, or, you know, that kind of strange thing that w-- keeps you awake at night. When they-- when I was going through that with the Hollies, it was Crosby that was sayin', "No, no, no, no. No, that Marrakesh Express? No, no, no. That's a good song. No, no. Come on. Le-- come over here. Come on. Let's go." You know, so he-- he re-- gave-- he gave back my faith in myself. And that's invaluable. What is the price of that?
RATHER
Stephen Stills, who is he?
NASH
Stephen Stills is a leader. Stephen Stills is a tremendous, tremendous musician, a great arranger. Stubborn. Won't quit until he thinks it's right, which I love about him.
RATHER
And what about Neil Young?
NASH
Neil Young is-, as I said in my book, is one of the strangest friends I have. Completely dedicated to the muse of music. Completely a slave to good music. Neil Young, dedicated to his family, dedicated to makin' the world a better place. And also tryin' to-- bring out-- a small player that players high res sounds instead of MP3s and silly things like that. Neil's in a good place.
RATHER
Well, that brings us to the question -- Who and what are you?
21
NASH
There's a part of me that is still waiting to get found out. I am 71 years old now. I have been doin' this successfully a long time. But there's a part of my soul that doesn't quite believe that I should be here. You know, I'm this poor kid from the north of England who h-- had the wisdom to follow his parents' advice about following his heart in my passion for music. Who am I? I wanna get the job done. If we're gonna commit to doin' a tour, or commit to doin' an album, or commit to singing a note, I wanna get the job done the best way we can. I personally think that time-- and our family are all we have. When my father died at 46 and the clouds didn't stop scurrying across the sky, and the birds didn't stop singing, and I-- I realized, "My God. You have to fill your life with the best you can for every second of your life." I-- I'll-- I'll never make it 100%. But I’m certainly trying to have the best life I can. Because why not?
RATHER
Well why not? I like the question --- a lot. You and the others. How have you and the others managed to sustain this success over such a long period of time?
NASH
The music that we make, and that we create, and that we are able to touch people's hearts with is the most important part of our relationship. None of the other stuff that's gone in our lives, all the backstabbing, all the-- (MAKES NOISE). It's meaningless. The older we get, the more that we try and concentrate on our strengths and not our weaknesses.
RATHER
Well, you’ve written some very memorable songs. We won't go through the whole list. But-- Our House, Teach Your Children, Chicago, Wasted on the Way. What are some of the stories behind these songs?
NASH
Th-- there's a story behind every single one of 'em. And-- and what I like to do is celebrate the ordinary moments in life. And I'll give you an example. I took Joni Mitchell to breakfast once in Los Angeles. We had left the restaurant. We pass an antique store. She looks in the window. She sees a beautiful vase in the window that she wants to buy. Now, I mean, I know haven't been with Joan for, you know, over 40 years. But she probably still has-- her first dollar. She (LAUGH) doesn't spend a lot of money on herself. But she did buy this vase and so we went back to her-- house in Laurel Canyon, where we were living. And I said, "You know something? I'll light a fire. Why don't you put some flowers in that vase that you just--" and all of a sudden...
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH (singing)
I’ll light the fire, you place the flowers in the vase that you bought today... 22
NASH
That incredibly ordinary moment that you and I as men have experienced a thousand times-- you know, "Okay, love. You do that, and I'll do this. And then tea'll ha-- you know, dinner'll happen, and the kids'll be fine." That's a perfect example. Because when Joni was in the garden tryin' to find flowers for the vase, she was --wasn't at her piano, which means I was. And Our House was written incredibly quickly.
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH (SINGING)
Our house is a very, very fine house, with two cats in the yard, life used to be so hard...
RATHER
What an interesting concept about writing. You say you like to write about the ordinary moments...
NASH
My life is made up of ordinary moments.
RATHER
Well, most everybody's life is.
NASH
Indeed.
RATHER
And that’s the point, but as I listen to you I’m reminded and you’re very much aware of this that there are any number of people who say, "Listen, I love Crosby, Stills, and Nash. They are great musicians. I love it. But I hate it when they start talking, quote, politics. How do you feel about that?
NASH
I can't separate my music from my politics. And I am not so sure that politics is the right title. When you shoot four kids down at Kent State because of their constitutional right to protest what their government is doin' in their name and you kill them-- is that politics? Or is that humanity?
NEWSREEL VOICE
23
The guardsmen have fired 61 shots. Four students are dead.
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
NEIL YOUNG WROTE THE POWERFUL OHIO IN 1970 AFTER SEEING THE ICONIC PHOTOGRAPHS OF VIETNAM WAR PROTESTERS SHOT DEAD BY NATIONAL GUARDSMEN ON THE KENT STATE CAMPUS. THE SONG CAPTURED THE MOOD OF A DIVIDED NATION AND QUICKLY BECAME A SHARP RALLYING CRY AGAINST THE WAR.
CROSBY, STILLS, NASH & YOUNG (SINGING)
What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground? How could you run when you know?
RATHER
Is that on your list of most important songs you have been associated with or not?
NASH
Yes. Very much so. It was such a wound in the national soul. We are killing our own children? Somethin's terribly wrong here. We had a single of Teach Your Children going up the charts. It was in the top 20 goin' to the top five. We killed our own single because we thought that Ohio was more important to talk about than havin' a hit single.
RATHER
What question have I not asked you I should have asked you?
NASH
How am I feeling?
RATHER
Well, how are you feeling?
NASH
Fantastic.
RATHER
Thank you.
NASH 24
My pleasure Dan.
CROSBY, STILLS & NASH (SINGING)
Teach your children well...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
MORE OF CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH...TOGETHER...WHEN WE COME BACK.
ACT 5
CROSBY, STILLS, & NASH (SINGING)
Please be gone I’m tired of you, what’ve you got to lose?
DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)
FEW BANDS HAVE BEEN LAUNCHED WITH THE FANFARE OF CROSBY STILLS AND NASH.
CROSBY, STILLS, & NASH
Thank you.
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
WOODSTOCK WAS THEIR COMING OUT PARTY. THEY EVEN RECORDED A SONG -- PENNED BY JONI MITCHELL -- ABOUT THE FAMED MUSIC FESTIVAL.
CROSBY, STILLS, & NASH (SINGING)
We are stardust, we are golden, we are...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
FOR MANY, IT BECAME THE DEFINITIVE SONG OF A LEGENDARY WEEKEND.
RATHER
As I was preparing for this interview and talking to someone, this was a person roughly my age, keep in mind I'm now 82 years old. And I said, "I'm going out to talk Crosby, Stills and Nash," and he said, "Oh, those hippie guys." Well, now going back to the beginning were you hippies?
GRAHAM NASH 25
Absolutely.
DAVID CROSBY
Yeah.
STEPHEN STILLS
I wasn't. (LAUGH)
CROSBY
We were.
NASH
I-- I-- I'll admit. Absolutely. But, you know, tho-- those hippie ideals, you know-- the so-called hippie ideals still remain true to this day. That love is better than hatred, that peace is better than war, that maybe we should take care of each other like-- be our brothers' keeper, maybe we should-- take care of our environment. You know, those hippie ideals are still incredibly important today. So, I'll admit to being a hippie and I still am.
CROSBY
I think we started out even before that with, you know, Kerouac and-- and the Beats-- that-- that generation of-- of thinking influenced us. And-- and I think gave birth to the hippies.
RATHER
Did you read Jack Kerouac?
CROSBY
Oh yeah.
RATHER
Did you read him, Stephen?
STILLS
Yes. Yeah, I was-- I was-- I read him when I was in the French Quarter. So-- bohemian is pretty-- pretty much the way I describe it. The hippies are an extension of the bohemians.
RATHER
26
Well, s-- I'm a journalist, obviously, and I'm always interested in getting the story straight. Can we settle on how Crosby, Stills and Nash started?
SEVERAL VOICES
No.
RATHER
There's no agreement?
SEVERAL VOICES
No.
RATHER
Well, start-- let's start—
STILLS
Let's put it this way--
RATHER
--let's start with you. Wha-- what's your version of how it all started? (LAUGHTER)
STILLS
Okay. You know how the-- the mind, memory works and there are some events that impact you so extremely that you have a semo-- semographic, smellophonic, you know, absolutely high- definition picture memory. And I remember looking past Cass Elliot and this guy, he was standing over here, Cass was standing at her door--
RATHER
Graham.
STILLS
--looking past at-- at him and saying, "Oh my God, that's Graham Nash from the other night." And that's the day that I-- that's the day that I think that we first sang at her dining room table.
RATHER
27
Now, Graham, does that match your memory?
NASH
Absolutely not.
CROSBY
No.
RATHER
Well, what's your version of this story?
NASH
My version is that I came from London to visit Joni in Los Angeles.
RATHER
Joni Mitchell.
NASH
Went to her house. David and Stephen were there at dinner. That's when we first sang together. And Stephen is correct in that it was such an incredibly profound musical moment in all of our lives that we will never forget the first time. But on my autobiography that we were talking about earlier the last sentence is, "This is how I remember it." Because we all have our truths. Obviously Stephen and David and I completely disagree about when we first sang together, but that's the fragility of the human spirit. We all have our own truths.
RATHER
So, David, now what's your version of where it all came together?
CROSBY
What he said.
RATHER
You agree with Graham?
CROSBY
Yeah. Oh, there's no question about it. I-- I remember it distinctly. 28
RATHER
Well, there is some question, because Stephen--
STILLS
Because I absolutely--I absolutely remember this as vividly as-- as this moment that we're sitting here, as vividly as where I was when Jack Kennedy was killed. Because that's how special the music was. It was a rosewood dining table in Cass Elliot's kitchen and-- and-- two days later we went to Joni's where she lived in a lovely little bungalow in-- Wonderland Avenue and I we sang around her table with la-- ladder-back chairs. So, I remember both ex—instances. I just, there's-- you know, like I said-- everyone—
CROSBY
I’ll give you an example of his memory. He thinks it was Wonderland. It was Lookout Mountain Drive. So--
RATHER
Well, it my story-- I guess, what I guess I’m going to have to say is there are differences of opinion--
CROSBY
Yes.
RATHER
--as to when and how the first meeting happened.
CROSBY
But we all knew that it was good. And that's the main thing.
RATHER
That is the main thing. So, let's concentrate on that for the moment. For the moment set aside where it happened, whether it happened in--Mama Cass's place or Joni Mitchell's place, what happened, Stephen?
STILLS
He says he did, but I said, "Cass, why don't you and David sing those things that you've been working on?" So, we went to the table and I picked a corner so that I - so I could really hear the 29 two of them. David sat on this side. And the other side he roamed around and listened to us sing- - this very simple song that has one verse, twice, three times.
RATHER
And the song was?
STILLS
"In the Morning When You Rise."
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH (SINGING)
In the morning, when you rise...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THE OFFICIAL TITLE OF THE SONG WAS YOU DON’T HAVE TO CRY....THE LUSH HARMONY BECAME THE SIGNATURE SOUND FOR THEIR LANDMARK DEBUT ALBUM.
DAVID CROSBY
It was a startling moment. Graham--We sang it to him, he said, "Would you do that again?" and we looked at each other and thought, "Well, okay." So we sang it again. He-- he said--
CROSBY AND STILLS
"One more time." (LAUGH)
CROSBY
And we sang it and he put the top part on and that was-- I knew at that moment what I was gonna be doing with my life for quite some time.
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH (SINGING)
In the morning, when you rise...
STILLS
It was like a horse with three heads and galloping on the four legs of my finger-picking.
RATHER
30
Did you know at that moment what you were gonna be doing the rest of your life?
STILLS
I know that I'd never heard a-- a vocal group sound like that ever. I mean, the Celtic keen of his voice, his cat's purr, and my cement truck and or whatever it is-- just had this “blesh” that--
CROSBY
That's blend and mesh.
STILLS
--that was-- we could do anything.
NASH
It was absolutely, completely a unique sound. It was one voice made up of three individual strains of voice. There was no doubt. We knew what we had. We were in love with the music. We were in love with each other's songs. We couldn't wait to get out there. Get out of our way; we're coming forward. We were unstoppable there.
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH (SINGING)
Remember what we’ve said and done, and felt about each other…
STILLS (SINGING)
Oh, babe, have mercy...
ACT 6
CROSBY, STILLS AND NASH (SINGING)
So much love to make up everywhere you turn. Love we have wasted on the way. So much water moving underneath the bridge...
RATHER
So now, you come together and now you're Crosby, Stills and Nash. What happened after that? You realize you've had this incredible moment--
STEPHEN STILLS
31
We kept it very much to ourselves for-- for quite some time-- trying to navigate all the very delicate business negotiation to get releases and things like that.
DAVID CROSBY
We were on three separate record companies.
STILLS
Yes, and so we had to-- we had to play this-- this whole little game. And then the minute we got that done we went into a very quiet studio and did not tell anybody, because one of the most disruptive influences on a recording session is an entourage showing up. So we went into the studio very quietly and we had sung these songs to death. And it was just-- it just (FINGER SNAPS) happened like that.
CROSBY
You have to understand that Stephen played just about everything on that first record except the drums. He played lead. He played acoustic. He played bass. And he played--
GRAHAM NASH
B3 piano.
CROSBY
Yeah-- three and piano.
NASH
I mean, Crosby and I played our-- our guitars on, you know, "Long Time Gone" and "Guinevere" and "Lady of the Island" and s-- you know, stuff like that. But Stephen played most of the instruments. So, when we had created this album and we realized we're gonna have to go out and play live what do we do with a man that played all the instruments? We-- it ca-- it doesn't work. So, we--
RATHER
So, what did you do?
CROSBY
We e turned to-- a member of his former group-- Neil--and-- and I think there was a lot of question in our minds whether or not we wanted Neil in the band. And I remember--
RATHER 32
Was there a question in his mind whether Neil Young wanted to be in the band?
CROSBY
Yeah, there was. But--
STILLS
Yeah.
CROSBY
But he knew what we had too. Neil is brilliant. I-- I-- I came to my decision point about it. I was sitting in the driveway of that same house-- Joni's house on-- on Lookout and I-- Neil drove by. And he saw me sitting there. And he turned around and came back down, pulled in, pulled out a guitar, sat on the-- we sat on the trunk of the car and he sang me, oh, I don't know, four of the best songs I'd ever heard in a row. And I said, "Oh yeah, I want this guy."
NASH
Well, I'd never met Neil Young. I didn't know whether we could be friends. I didn't know whether I could tell him secrets. I didn't know whether we could hang. I'd never met him. So, I said to David and Stephen, "Look, before we make this incredible decision I have to meet this Neil Young guy."
I went to breakfast with Neil on Bleecker Street in-- in the Village and after that breakfast I would have made him king of the world. He was so funny. He was so self-assured. He was so certain that what he could bring, especially his ability to play guitar in and against Stephen would be brilliant.
CROSBY
Neil is-- you know, a very unusual human-being. He will do what he thinks is going to produce the best music. If he believes that-- that it's time for us-- for the four of us to, you know-- play, then he will-- he will come to that party and he will make that happen. It-- when we started this, just to make one thing clear, we planned-- the reason we used our own names instead of calling ourselves the Jetsons or Led Zeppelin or, you know, the Giant Banana Centipede we used our own names, because we intended to be able to work in any combination. And all of us-- Graham and I have always had a special relationship. We always intended to Crosby Nash. And it's been-- a gift from God. It's been so good.
RATHER
Well, if someone arrived and didn't know-- anything about your past, anything about your music and said-- "What is your music about?" How would you answer that question? 33
CROSBY
Everything.
NASH
Humanity, feelings--
SEVERAL VOICES
Love.
NASH
Friendship, loyalty, support.
CROSBY
Justice.
NASH
Less crazy, less lonely. Maybe-- maybe challenge you to think a little differently about things.
CROSBY
Diminishing the space between human-beings.
STILLS
And-- it's about here. (FINGER SNAPS) (LAUGHTER)
NASH
A musician's joke, yes.
RATHER
How is it that so many people perceive you as in the mainstream of music, but way out there when it comes to politics?
NASH
That's a very good question. I think we've had the courage to stand up for what we believe in. I think that we've had the courage to talk about subjects that-- a lot of people don't agree with. 34
We recognize their right not to agree with us. But we live in the United States of America and we can speak our minds. And no one has to listen at all, but we get a chance to speak our minds. And-- that's why I became American citizen 30-odd years ago. I didn't want to be throwing hand grenades into this-- into this-- you know, society without being a part of it. I wanted to vote. I wanted to elect people to represent me. I wanted the ideals of the American dream. And I'm still following it. And I think it's still attainable. And it looks grim out there. I know how depressing it looks when you start to think about global warming and the deniers and you think about Afghanistan and Yemen and Somalia and you think about all the pirates and you think about what's going on. And you think about giant icebergs breaking off in the middle of the arctic and coming into the shipping lanes. It looks crazy out there. But we've got to keep holding the fact that this is an incredible country and we can make it better.
RATHER
Well, I think we can all say, "Amen," to that.
CROSBY
Yes.
RATHER
Thank you very much.
NASH
Thank you, Dan.
RATHER
Thank you so much.
NASH
My pleasure.
SEVERAL VOICES
Thank you so much.
RATHER
Thank you, Stephen, thank you very much.
CROSBY 35
Thank you my friend.
RATHER
David, thank you. Appreciate it, my friend.
END TRANSCRIPT