Monday, 5th February, 1951
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
’(Part I—Que****®* ■“ <* AuBwet#)] ^ ? - /
OFFICIAL REPORT ^ ^ * ;
▼GLUHE VI, 1861
(6th I^bnury to 81st H anh. 1961)
Third Session (Second Part)
of the
PARLIAMENT OF INDIA
195 1 CONTENTS
Votunu VJ-^/rom 5/A February, U StH Mmrdi, 19i2
Monday, 5th Pelmiary, 19S1
Oral Anfiwen to Qua«li *nmrBday, 22&d Februaiy, IM l— Ooium n9 Oral Amcwtn to QaMti«iu . 1639— 1667 Written Answers to Qowtioui 1667— 1678 Friday, 23rd February, 1951— M«nber Sirom . , . 1679 Oral Answers to Questions . 1679— 1704 Written Answers to Questions 1705— 1712 Monday, 26th February, 1951— OraJ Answers to Questions . 1713— 1739 Written Answers to QuestJons 1739— 1750 Tuesday, 27th February, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions . 1751— 1783 Written Answers to Questions 1783— 1802 Wednesday, 28th February, 19 51- Oral Answers to Questions . 1803— 1830 Writt^si Answers to Questicos 1830—1838 Thursday, 1st March, 1951— Oral Answ«is to Questions . 1839— 1865 W rittoi Answers to Questiocis 1865—1874 Friday, 2nd March, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions . 1875— 1901 Writtra Answers to Questions 1902— 1914 Monday, 5th March, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions . 1915— 1949 Written Answers to Questions 1949— 1956 Wednesday. 7th March, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions . 1957— 1987 Written Answers to Questions H>87<_-1996 Thursday, 8th March, 1951-< Oral Answers to Questions . 1997—2042 Written Answers to Questiocis 2042-^2058 Friday, 9th Mareh, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions . 2059— 2085 Written Answers to Questions 2085—2096 Saturday, 10th March, 1951— Member Sworn . . , 2097 Oral Answers to Questions . 2097—2131 Written Answers to Questions 2131—2314 Monday, 12th March, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions , 2135—2166 W'rittffl} Answers to Questions 2166—2186 Tuesday, 13th March, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions . 2187— 2217 Written Answers to Questions 2217—2224 Wednesday, 14th March, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions . 2225—2264 W^ritt«ai Answers to Questions 2254—2222 O ii ) Tfaund«y» 15tfa March, OmI Aiwwers to Questioiui . 2263—2295 Written Answerv to Questioas 2296—2*08 FricUy, 16 th March, I961-- Oral Answers to QuMiions . 2309—2^40 Writtwi Answen to QoeetioQa 2340—234 Monday, 19th March* 1951— MembOT Sworn . , . 2343 Ora) Answers to QxteBiiona . 2343—2371 Written Anawerv to QneationB 2371—2386 Tueaday, 20th March, 1961- Oral Anawem to QtMetiona . 2387—2416 Written Answers to Questions 2416—2444 W^ednesday, 21«t Martsh, 19 61- Oral AnsweTB to Questions . *44&—2474 Written Answ«T» to Questions 2474—2484 Saturday. 24th March. 1951— Oral Answers to Questions . 2485—2518 Written Answers to Questions 2518—2626 Monday, 26th Marvh, 1961— Oral Answers to Questions . 2527— 2461 Writtmi AnswiNv to Queetions 2561—2576 Tuesday. 27th March, 1951— Oral Answers to Questioiis . 2677—2606 Written Anrwers to Questions 2606—3618 Wednesday, 28th March, 19 61- Oral Answers to Questions . 2619—2651 Written Answers to Q m tions 2661—2658 Friday. 30th Mawh, 19 61- Oral Answers to Questions . 2669—2688 Written Answers to Queeiiona «aiuvday. Slst March* )961— Oral Answers to Questions . 2699—2732 Written Anawen to < 2733—2750 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (Part I—Queitions and Answers) iOmOUJU IU7 i m PARLIAMENT OF INDIA Shrl A. C. Gniia: Is there any definite amount fixed for our annual ndtbdraw>^ Motidatf, 5th Pebrnarff, 1951 , ^ now? Ontl C. O. Dcdnakh: T b m i t The Hotue m et at a QuarUr !» SUfven fixed amount of the Clock. Shri A. C Gidtt: How is our with fM «. SmxESL in the C hiiif] drawal regulated now? S M C. D. OcadmnddK Now there It ORAL ANSWERS TO QUKSTIONS no limit on the withdrawals waA we can CoMiioivwEALT» Doujut Pool antid$»ate that all our reaaooable m- QuiTQpients w ill be met out ^ tbe SInl A. C G«ks: («) Wm the Pool, Minister of « w e e be pleased to state what have been the eandiigs of Dollar A . C. iSabMi What was the to be put in the Commonwealth Dollar arranfem^t in IM ? Pool during the last three jf«ars? Stoi C. D. De^UMft^: The with (b) What was the eam inf eadi unit o f the Commonwealth the drawals wete Ihnited to 75 per n m t last three years? tit our expenditure in D c ^ r s in 1948. (c) How mu<^ has each country SM A. C. Gidui: What Is the cri drawn from the pool during ttiose three terion to decide as to how our ^srttlK years? drawals are to be taken? SM C. a D esteO ck ; l^esre is "no > B fl»l9ler ^ Fiaaaee (SkH C. 0 . limitation now, but it has been agreed Desh«tOth>: (a) There is no Common that all sterling earning countries wiU wealth Dollar Pool. Presumably the do their best to economise tfellar ex* hon. M«mber refers U> the Central penditure with a view to streti^hen- gold and dollar reserves of the sterling Ing the Central Reserve and hasten the •wa* The net retuUs o f our conv«rtibility of sterling. operatlc«s on the*© rejerves during Shrl A. C G«ha: Are we to imfe?- stand that we can withdraiw as mw* as we may like or as we need ? • "** ^ * »* SM e D. DeiiuB^: ^»soiiably yes. rnimoL^ • "** »* • «* iMMStOht BjUIX $ TmMon**®’ • ^ m n . aawl A c. Oaha: Will ^ T fm ncc be ii> (b> and The Minister M fflwoee (Sbri C. D. [Selb Govli^ Das: By wben may it Desbmukh): (a) Excluding shares held be expected?) by Corporate bodies and Institutions, shares held by Indian Nationals on Mr. Speaker: We have discussed this the 23rd May, 1950, were 80 per cent question very often. of the fully paid-up shares and 88 per Sbri A. C Gfuba: Was an Indian c « it of the partly paid-up shares held e^er appointed as Managing Director by individuals, ^ any time? (b) and (c). Under Section 28(1) tiv) Sbri C. D. Desbamkb: Not so far. of the Imperial Bank of India Act, The Managing Director has not to my Government have n(»ninated two per knowledge been an Indian. sons on the Central Board of Direc tors of the Bank. These Directors Sbri A. C. Gfiha: How is the Manag* have the same powers and privil^es ing Director appointed now. by the as other Directors of the Central Directors and share-holders? Board. The GovCTnment have also nominated under sub-section (3> of Sbri C. D. Desbmnkb: The Managing Section 28 an ofBcer of Government to Director is appointed by the Directors. attend the meetings of the Coitral Sbri A, C. Gnba: While 80 per cent Board and such officer is entitled to of the shares have been held by attend all meetings of the Board and Indians, is it not the duty of the Gov to take part in its dellberatiums but is ernment to see that the Manaj^ing not entitled to vote. Director of this Bank is an Indiars^ & ai A . a Chda: Is there any Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I think, special committee for the Cetttral be is arciiins. Board? Sbri C. D. DesluBiikli: The Central Sbfl B. l>as: Will the Hon. Finance Board has no committee, but I think Minister tell us what steps have been the local boards have weekly com taken lo nationaUsc the Imperial Bank? mittees. Mr. ^leaker; Order, order Sbri A. C. Gidut: A re the G«)wrv- Sbrt M. L. Guptm: Yon stated that ment nominees entitled to attcaad the we have two Directors in the pwl and committees and take part in their that Government have aho nominated deliberaticms? the Bengalis who migrated Itoti Cosmic I^ ys Bengal to the Indian Union after tbe ♦1158. Fwf. S* N. m A n : (a) Will 25tti July, 1949; and the Minister of Natural Eemvees and (b) if so. what action have GoveriH B e c a m e Beceareli be {leased to state ment taken in the matter? whether it is a fact ttiat experiments desii^ed to measure the intensity of The Bftalater of Law (Dr. Amt»ed^ poietrating Cosmic rays at altitudes of kar): (a) Yes. above 70,000 ft by balloon fli|^ts had been carried out at Bangalore? (b) These representations w ^ tery carefuUy considered by Government. (b) If so. with what results? Rights of franchise could be conferred m a m a ^ Nalaral BcMire^s on this of persons only by Itrst and Seioittfic Bcsearcli (ShH Sri pas ing a special law conferring ciu^en- Prakaaa): (a) Yes Sir. ship on them, since they ^ nti- £ens of India under tiie Constitution.^ 3 ^ . ^ b e d fca r: That might have i-,S uX*iiX. ^ ^ ^ Hxen so. a r i n u n t d a WaUa; WIU they aU *^ralranchjsed after December this B r. Aabedkar: C» yes, when the Bectoral RoU will be revised. Under •-W o*- uJ V, »the f electoral roll has to beP«»Pl* retdaad Art. «»ery year and they wiU certainly be n e t r i m e Minister (Shri Jawaharlal J U ^ i iFf w I o t ) : In regard to numbers, njsy I add to what the Law Minister has «aid. that it is extremely difficult to ‘«ive in this matter because of the eijSU J fluid conditions. That is to sav, large numbers hftve contraualW and dailr, dunng the last many months* been gi> > o»* u S ^ vatr backwards and forwards, and in ^ ^ retumtog. It is very difficult to *now deanitely in regard to a few after due enquiry as to whether— J jic tu s „i are supposed to leave for the time ^ m g —they are going to go back, ,u ^ ^ ^ uu, gecondly, an hon Member said about ®Tinrlij^. l^ery person who, let us y 5,^ - V say. attains the age of franchise this :^ar. that is, after the date fixed, is •disfranchteBd till he is enrolled the u*j ^ i3U f If r *«*xl tune. There are niillions ot per sons in the country. They attain the of 21: tin they ai« ^ l l e d nc^ they are disfranchised. That rprrKCss goes on. Sipaker; Next question, XhcTiOTmuT or ScnrsTinc Terms ne Hikdt Will the Mini^^<>r of Editcalicn b^ p ie a ^ to y f ^ 114 S Oral An$umt S RBKOABY U51 Oral Aimoen turn ijJ *S t ft ^ *>»q^ >HfcJ J I S £ ^ J - U . V U »“ i ^ ITbe Minister lito ^ : %Err ^ » n ^ t ft? 1147 Ofei Answers 5 FSWUABY 1951 Oal An$t»m U 4 8 are they considering of increasing the «mr I f^Rrtf ^ number of members by including ne- presentatives of such organizations as ^ ^PtFTWrr t ’ have some such work to their credit?] [Pwrf. s. N. MMin: A»e the Govern- t ment aware that the Akhil Bhartiya : o ) / U J y Hindi Sahitya Sammelan has passed a resolution wherein this Board has been severely criticized?] -.)Vf u J 1 ^ J . J h tt ** p ^ «f^ o * * JXA- ^ ^ uut. ^ »a W )ff* or o t^ ^ 0 * 1 ^ ** U)-^t)* * j* t* ^ Lhn^ijA V - >+*■'• £ h t f i . •, ^ jJUt jl***-!" v~* i-ilMu* ^ a l ^ [Maulaaa Asa4: The Governmeflt )Jtuf i ^juw< ^ »J JC.U are prepared to consider every such proposal and the Board sh^U surely tSJi y^i*-Je| ^ ^ take advantage of the work done by various organizations in this connec tion. I may also add that it may not ^ J J i ^ be possible for the members of the Board to do all this work themselves. • 3 u< So various committees wiU be $et up and other capable pers£#ns will be (MftolaBa Azad: It i§ clear that asked to give help ] whenever any such work is undertaken, it becomes very difficult to satisfy all ^ fW f: TO ftR? sections of people. Ail the necessary factors were taken into considctration by the Government in the constitution o i this Board and only such persons aftr WFTTlff % have been selected* as are experts in different branches of Science and also TOTO m w 3nr -are scholars of the various classical .and modem languages of India. The ^ f*rr f 8TT^ Government are satisfied that this w rfjpt? Board as ccKistituted is Q u ite compe tent for the purpose.] [Setli G0viad Oat: May 1 koow whe ther at the time of co-opting memli^rs will the C^vemment consult the Hindi T O »nw»r t Pp ^ 9 n fjp ^ Sahitya Samnielan and other organisa tions about the manner in ix^ieh this <1*4 wjf ijVr j w - » n y * / CS«fli G ovM D»k Are the Govern- txieni aware of the work done in this IMimlaaa Azad: Yes Sir. I am satis behalf by the Hindi Sahiiya Sarnmrfan fied that ihe Board wHl surely keep all and similar' other organitatiofis and this in view,] i m Oral Answers 5 J9 5 1 O r a l AnstC^* lysa . SmxoQusG or Gpu> Shri C. P. D tsbm n i^ Tliere is no such French nobleman. But there is ♦1156. Shri SidbT»: (a) Will the a case in court tn which a high-placed Minister of Fiaattce be pleased to state foreigner is concerned, whose name I wbethef it is a fact that on or about would rather not give at tl*e mvjmeBt the middle of Dec^ber, 1950. the Cus toms Authorities seized large Quanti Paaait Bftnnlshwar Dftti Upadhyay;, ties oi gold smuggled by passengers Sir. out of the five persons referred to arriving by air from the Cc«tinent? in the reply, may I know how maisy (b) If 80, what was the total amount Indians were ivolved and what were of gold so seized? the nationalities of the otJiers? (c) How many persons were involv Shfi C. D. Pertwwkii: Tliere was a o ed? Indian. They were all foreigners course o i emergendw “ (b) If so, what is the estimated ex the normal course. He felt great diffi penditure, recurring and non-recur culty in the matter, and decided pro ring likely to be incurred thereon? visionally that married women were (c ) Have such classes been started; cOTisidered not suitable lor such ^ and if not why not and by which time vices as the Indian Administrative are the said classy likely to be sorted? Service and the Police Service. But the very persons recommended now are being considered actively for the Central Secretariat Service. ■ « 113 ♦ i j * (* - 0 Shrimati JDurcabia: Sir. is it not a fact that many women are e m p lo y , i j f ) I mean married women, m various other departments of the Government, f e j a . J i - 4*ej, A l* * and if that is the case why ^^ould women candidates for the I«A-S. be differentiated against? • Mr. Speaker: Order, order, that is u*t' ofrt' Cj“ ) entering mto arguments. i . ^ y f V y t ^ Skrimati Bnwkm Bay; Sir. this being in violation of the Constitution, will Grovemment think of taking steps to see that no principle is laid down ^ 1 1 0 * U . ^ ^ that marriMi women as such should not be excluded from employment but that each individual case should be <»*-J v f - judged separately? « 11 9 1 ^ Shri Rajagopalachari: That is per haps the course which Government may ultimately take, Sir. [Tiie Minister of Edocatton (lUidMa Sloimati Doigaliai: Sir. may 1 kixow Azad): (a) Yes. From the session whether the difficulties enumerated beginning from July 19S0. by the hon. Minister are only anti The loUowing^ merger and re lay- Slirl »ya«fc ' Mar I know « these ITIie Miatalet «i EdnentiM reorgam^tional changes have been Axaii): A statement Is placed on ^ made in conformity with the recom Table of tlM House. Shri Balagopalachari: Yes* Sir. jRiwpi J c j y f IV # - ^ V W ) [5ee Appendix X, annexure No. 2.] n i t ^ ^ SK I 1157 Oral An$mers 5 FTOfilXftRlf 1051 QnA Atidoers U5S ^WRwr I ; ^ ^ ^r^’fTTc ijft % Pm 4 3IT ^ aftr fipa# ^ A i - ^ tMaobua And; I am unable to furnish details. Certain ruies exist in this respect and grants to private schools are sanctioned in accordance with th«»e rules.] I am unable to state anything in respect of all the ,jUm> : y i\ ^ ^ places, but so far Delhi is concerned we have had an estimate and we think that by the present rate of progress we shall be able to meet the requirements [Giaai G. S. Mttnllr; What is the of the whole of Delhi within the next number of such schools in Delhi?] five years.} - c * * i~ 150^?*“ **“ * * * * ^ number is ^ Wi. i s jii3u iTFPfN U , ,1*3 ^ j U , i inj tii r^s iC . . ^ % fw d irt I, ^nff J i * - jM 5,,U«}L4 ^ 1 ? [Cb. Baabir Slarh: Will the hon. )’■*? „> Minister kindly state as to how many of such schools meant for old persons - have been opened in the villages?] r s a fte SocM sii«ii: May I know whether the students are being coach^ for any particular examination under the present scheme of Adult Biucation, » J » V > i ^ v J - 1 mean whether this education aims at preparing them for the Matricula tion. middle or any other examina* ticn?] TMsnlaaa Asad: Perhaps the hon. Member is referring towards *adults*. Sufficient number of schools have been J V c?»^» * i •• W y. opened in the rural areas , wr •nrWir % viir , J * t ^ * « 0 * A** A -JU If S ififS ra n f TO $ # ^ I f f *A- im Oral Aintetw 5 raKOABT^ m i Oral An«i>er» lUO Dr. Ambedkar. I have no istomar tion on the subject for ttie mpment. - O * " ^ Shri tL C. tJpadhyaya: May I know whether th^ names of most ol ite [Maniaoa Asatd: These s<*ools women, voters in Rajasthan have be«> have b^n opened under the Social wrongly enjered thus depriving them Education Scheme which aims at mak of ttieir vote? ing illiterate persons literate, besides teaching them certain other things as Dr. Ambedkar: My information is are necessary for raising their standard that it is really a very difficult matter of life and help in their professions.] to enrol women voters in Rajasthm, because nobody is prepared to give the name of a woman. A woman generally called by the name of the village from which she comes or things v like that - - ^ Sbrimati Dnr^bai: What arrange^ ments have Government made to tSurdaur Soeliel Stegii: Is it not Bmiroadi the Rajasthan women and necessary for them to pass any exa get to know their correct names? mination?} Dr. Ambedkar: As I say. Govern [Mr, Speaker Order, order. We ment has made the best efTorts it can proceed to the next guestion. but certainly there are these diflfl* culties that I have pointed out. DEUMriATXON OP COKSTITUESCIES * U $ t Shri a K. Das; Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state: m sisftr *N^ aft ^ f t (a) whether it is a fact that delimi tation of Constituencies and allotment M w i ftajT m ^ t ? of seats have been hampered on ac count of want of correct estimate of rSetii Govisd Das: What steps are different classes of population and faro- being taken to remove the difficulties per enrolment of voters; and stated by the hon. Minister?] (b) if so, what steps have been taken to remedy these defects? f t VX Tijt ^ I I%e Mialster irf Law (1^. AmbeA* kar): (a> While there have been diffi culties in a few areas» they have not [Dr. Ambedkar To my mind, tiiey been such as to hamper the work of are taking all possible st<^s.} delimitation seriously. I am informed Shri R. Velayndhaii: May I know by the Election Commission that fair how many delimitation ccwnmilteea^g process has been made. ha\'e submitted their reports so far? (b) Does not arise. Dr. Ambedkar: It does not arise out of this Question. Skri B. K. Das: Is it a fact that in Cooch-Bihar and some other areas the Kosi Project enrolment of voters has been such that on the basis of those voters the number ♦1162. ShH B. R. Bhagat: Will the of population comes to spmething far Minister of KatturiM Resource* a»d below the number that was enumerat Sdestific Researa be pleased to ed during the 1841 Census? As the state: basis of delimitation of constxtooicies Sfcil B. tL Uftgat: May 1 Msk The Deputy ROaist^ at Defeoee whether the Cqmmittee has been (MaJm'-GeBeral IHmatsiehM): (a) and coijstitoted? ^ (b). An e3qi>eriment with 200 persons (Boys) covering a period of six montbs ^ m ai Sri Praiutttt; The decUi^ has was made in 1950. The results are been taken tor the c jy !” 5«wnu Htwrtifhih -nie w t^ erta^ is to rmlace milk but to suppbmeot it ifI and ifb a i we cannot get it in s u fflc te t ttey proceed, lliose are belnc earrM quantities. on to seven stages and we *o t o ‘ ^..wport for the flrrt stage raUr! May I know whether pe put before the C w unltS powder milk is supplied to the miUtarv wl^en it is constituted Th« r*mm- personnel instead of pure milk? «lttee »-Ul also S t S S i n e ^ S n ^ Stages I to IV of the project Major-Geaefal Is a fact that the Sir. Whenever w e cannot get pum K-H?,5 -«»SA5!8 milk i-«.. Wended niiJk S4LE or Fugs Sliri Sri Pfalubtt* am « *UM. Skri K shnfiim v jn tte^Miaister at Detam b T & d to S x a w s T - fa) the auwwrfcollected Statewiset from the sale of flags on flag.day i.«’ a month “ lo “ u ^ a k i Tth December, 1950; and SSTA'S (b) the number of flags sold? Deputy Minister of Defence (MaJ^-G«ieral Hlmatslnkii): (a) A statement ^ collections so far SovA Bean Milk M ^ t e d by States Is laid on the A j^ndjx X, annexore Kaliadimi Wm state^ ^ l ^ n c e be pleased experiment was llaip’ and Bo’« » ea?”« iU « ^ ^ s o k ? * " Soya Bean MUk as a Sm *i natural milk among any Military perso«mel; and * ^ it is used «nd by how many person^ o x ^ M ^ H ta u te lrty ; A Uttte 1H3 Oitrf Anttom 5 lAMY l »51 OroX Aittuwrs UW IimiAR AWCinSTRATIVE SERVICE irppfhr ni65. SItti I>wivedi: Wfll the Minis WRIT j ft! Ppsi ^ ter of Home Affairs be pleased to state; (a) the number of officers and non- who applied for admission in to the IJiS . from Vindhya Pradesh and Bhopal State; fShri DwivedL* May I ask the hon. Minister whether suflftdeat resources (b) how many of them have been exist in Vindhya Pradesh for the selected and what was the basis o# opening of various factories and such selection: and whether any steps have been talsen tc (c) how many out of the selected open any such factwles there?] personnel are the bona fide residents of the States? The Minister of Home Affairs (Shri (a) Offlcem~3. fsfiST fvspff ^ f w Non-Officials—1. n itC : ^ (b) None. (c) Does not arise. 1. Mica, copper and iron in Tlkam- Sliri Dwivedi: May I itnow whether garh district. Bundelkhand. Government have reserved seats in 2. Gold and gemstones near the State-wise? Chitrakut, Sbri Bajacopalaeliart: As far as I know, no. 3. Coal in different parts of Rewa; also Bauxite, and Sltri Dwivedi: May I icnow whether Government propose to start some 4. Ground water conditions in kind of junior I.A.S. or State Bundelkhand District Administration Service for Part C States on the pattern of the P,C^.? ir? OT ^ 3TT# t r V T W # Sliri Ea|ai:opalacliari: Notice may be pven for that—it is a different question. ^ wpFftir ewFrnr Natural Resourcks •U«6. Sltti Dwlvedi: WiU the I Minister of NstanI BeMWces »*d IShH Sri Prakasa: In Vindhya Sd«BtUk BeMUcA be pleased to sUte; Pradesh too research has been con (a) what steps have so far been ducted in connection with the follow taken by the Government of India to ing: tap Uie natural resources .existing In areas which came over either as Part 1. Mica, copper and iron in Tikmn* •B' or *C SUtes in the RepubUc of ^ rh district. Bundelkhand, India as a result of States integration; 2. Gold and gemstones near Chitra- (b) whether any kind of reieajch and survey work is being undertaken kut. in any of these States; and 3. Coal in different parts ot Rewa; (c) if BO. where and in what direo- also Bauxite, and '^ n s ? 4. Ground water ccmditldns hi M iA l^ of Nalatal B m a im B u n d ^ a n d district. aad Scientak Research (Shri Sri Frakaaa): (a) and (b). Systematic All this is about the researcli wwk. geological surveys. geophysic^ If the fton. Member is very keen about surveys, exploratory mining and the opening of the factories, he may drilling and special and routine better address to the hon. Minister ^ mlnerologica) mvestlgations h^ve Commerce and Industry.] been carried out and are being conti nued by the Geological Survey of India in areas which constitute Part «il f l W t : viT # and Part ‘C States with^ti^ exception of the States of Hjrderabad, m m f f t fN r ^ l&lyBore and Travancore-Cochin which have their own geological staff. iMMnr isn# % WfRntr ^ (c) A statement showing the work done and the woris proposed is 1 ^ on the Table of the House. [S ee Appendix X, annexure No. 1.] r w Oral Antmerg 5 liaBTOMY 1951 Oral Anm»ers [fflir! Owivedt! May I ask the hon. (b) whether any fresh attempts have Minister whether Bauxite and been made or are likely to be made in Corundum are also found in Rewa this direction; and State for the preparation oi Aluminium and abrasive materials?] (c) what minerals other than coal are known to be existing in the Mr» SptBStktr: I think he is giving Vindhyan soil? information more than asking for it. The Minister of Natural Sesm ^----- —&de&tifie_____ JLtseaact _ ™ w iSui Sri Prakasa); (a) With the exception of Rewa State which employed two pri vnFfhr arir irRff ^ vate Geologists for short periods, na other State in Vindhya Pradesh, so lar WTW ^ ? as we know, have carried mit any geological investigations. Officers of the Geological Survey of India, how [SItri SH Pnkasa; All these ever, have from time to time studied materials, minerals etc. which I have ^ e general geology and investigated |ust read out exist in Vindhya mto the mineral resources of Vindhya Pradesh. Now what ^ i f t w fital^Sri I M c a s a ; 1 fear 1 could not give the exact acreage. f I 8 M IbaBatt: Have any a t te n ^ tShri Sri Pndum: Yes, the hon, been made recently to work the dla- information on mond mines of Panna? this point in the list Uiat I have laid on the Table of «ie h X s s S ^ as S M Sri Pndnsa: If the hem. Mem I am aware, h ^ . Member’s ber wUl look into the M«noirs of the Uon about the existence ^ ^ e Geological Survey of India, he wiH find aU the information he needs— minus the diamonds. As regards the investigations about diamonds in MllfERAL WEALTH m VlNMrrA PiUI>B8iB Panna, ftiU informatl (h ) the number of decided cases; (b) If so. is it a fact that the Head and ^ quarters of the Collectorate is at Calcutta at present? (c) the number of convictions out of the said decided cases? (c) If so, when do Government pro pose to shift it to Patna? The MiBisier of Home AIKalfs i& a i 1Uia«0palacliari): It is not Hie intention ol G4>vtmmeot laid on the Table of the l^mse in due to extaiid this system of payta&tki ol course. compensation. OShxi Ut4 BafeMtyr. May I know WRITTEN ANSWERS TO whether the incidence of tobacco tax QUESTIONS per acre has been calculated and if so, how much is it? Puauciry O f f ic e s (ApponrrMEjrTs) Seth Goriiid Das: Wil! the Shti C. D. Derimiiklu I am afraid I Minister of InfcnviatifiB a»d Broad* must have notice ol the ijues^on. casting be pleased to state what ac Siifi T m t: Max I know whether tion has been taken to ensure that in Government has considered the gties- future, appointments in the various tion of transferrinif the ^tablishment publicity offices of Govemnjent will be for realizing this excise duty on toba made out of persons fully conversant cco to the various State Governments with Hindi? ^ and it so,, would tiiis transfer be tlie Minister of State for lafofiBa- economical? tloa and Broadeastiag (Shri Diwakar): Shri C. D* Beshmidai: Government The question of making knowledge of has not considered the question and Hindi a qualification for appointments there is no reason to believe that the to publicity posts is under examina* transfer wiB be economical. tion. Shri Tyacrl: May 1 know which is the CoMPENS not be in the public interest to of Ba. 20 for att^ding the meetings of ^disclose the ^diogs and recmmnen- tbe Board. datioDs of the Committee or to supplj | c ^ ^ & e Report to the House at The Oiairman of the' Film ------Committee rec^ves a baaic aub- siatance allowance of Rs. 50 per 4ay. CoMPAHY L a w and the non-offlcial members Ba, 40 per day. in addition, titoy receive, ni76. Shri Kishorinu^ Mnatid: while working away from Delhi, ic i /The Committee was asked to L o a n s t o S t a te s submit its report at the end of Feb ruary 1951 but it is clear that th ^ RaOmaswaiay: WUl th« will need more time to finish their Mmister of Fiiiaiice be pleased to stat»: work. (a) the name* of States to whidi loans were advanced during the yea» D a il y A l l o w a n c e 1949-50 and 1950»51; ni7*, Shrl VeskatanuBatt: Will the (b) the total amount so far advanced Mmist^ of Flaaaee be pleased to sUte in this period, and ^ ,d^ y aUowance paid to the non- ^ a a l members of— (c) the objects for which the loant were glv^? (i) The Planning Advi^^ory Com mittee; of FiMMe (8M C W. (ii) The Film Inquiry Committee; wred into ^ agreement with a 1 ^ 1 on the Table of tte uig Indian Arm of di^e^ enaSi/m SS! Hou«. fsee Appendix X factorer., for the g e n T r a t iS ^ S ^ p ^ agreement cover traJn- CHisr JitsTicE OF Assam High Coww todian techmcians and ft m trw^ed? to 5 Natuwl BeMOM ^ L ^ % P P Ltd p o o J S ^ * ^ o,,cws"!h."sa .!SS» IW'ocedure has been adnnt Monday, 5th February, 1951 Volume V m >7 Monday No. 1- J itfiTcbrnary, 1861>6 ] ■ ' 15 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES PARLIAMENT OF INDIA OFFICIAL REPORT Part II—^Proceedings other than Questions and Answers « G K A W m J V 'd :Z A T t% on ___ CONTENTS Doathfs of Shri A. V. Thakkar ard CJi. Mukhtar Singh [Cols. 2344^2346] Motions for AdjoumnfleAts— Preimration of Electoral RoUs in Engli?}i [Cole. 2345—2347] Den olition of hou^os built by refugees [Cols. 2348— 2351] ^ ** Iiaplementation of recommendations of Tariff Board re: Workers in Sugar Industry [Cols, 2351^2352] Gut in Food Rations [CoLs. 2352—2355] President’s Assent to Bills [Col. 2356] Papers laid on the Table— , Amendment to Union Publi<‘. Service Commission (Consulfetion) Regulationf. [Col. 2356] Reserve Bank of India (Staff) Regulations, 1948 [Col. 2356] Preventive Detention (Amendment) Bill—Introduced [Col. 2356] Hindu Code—Consideration of Clauses—not concluded [Cols. 2356—2423] Price Six Annas THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (Part II— ^Proceedings other thM Questions and Answers.) OFFICIAL REPORT 2344 2345 PARLIAMENT OF INDIA backward humanity. He passed away at a ripe old age of 82, but all the same, his demise leaves a big void Monday, 5th February, 1951. and we feel bereaved. The House met at a Quarter to Eleven Ch. Mukhtar Singh who was a sit ^ of the Clock. ting Member of Parliament was not keeping good health for sometime and died in a nursing home in Delhi. [Mk. S p e a k e r in the Chair] He was a Member of the Central Assembly from 1926 to 1930, and also QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS served as a member of the Central Banking Enquiry Committee and Fis (See Part I) cal Commission. We naturally mourn the loss of 1-45 A . M . these two friends and our sympathies and condolences go to the families DEATHS OF SHRI A. V. T IIA I^A R of the deceased. I am sure the House AND CH. MUKHTAR SINGH will join with me in expressing its sorrow by sending in silence for two Mr. Speaker: Before we proceed minutes. » further, I have to inform the House of the very sad demise of two of our friends. MOTIONS FOR AEJJOURNMENT One is the distinguished Shri Amrit Lai Vithaldas Thakkar, .affectionately called Thakkar Bapa. He was a Mem P r e p a r a t io n o f E l e c t r o l R o l l s in ber of the Constituent Assembly of E n g l is h India and later of Parliament. He re Mr. Speaker: I have received no signed his seat in Parliament due to tices of five adjournment motions: ill-health. Thakkar Bapa was a top two of them seem to be indentical. ranking worker of the Servants o f . One is by the hon. Member, Mr Frank India Society. He worked with Anthony who wishes to discuss “ a Mahatma Gandhi in his several mis definite matter of urgent public im sions, and identified himself with the portance, namely, the failure of Gov cause of the Untouchables, the Back ernment, for example, in such ward Classes and the aboriginal States as Madhya Pradesh and Madras, Tribes. Thakkar Bapa used to run to to ensure that, in accordance with the all the four comers of the country on Constitution, the electoral rolls in occasions of scarcity, floods, epidemics respect of elections to Parliament are etc. He had dedicate his life to silent prepared in English.” but solid constructive activities of a nation building character. As I had I should like to know from him as the privilege of knowing and asso to which article of the Constitution ciating with him in his public work prescribes that the electoral rolls shall and more closely during the last six be prin^^ in English. years in connection with the Kasturba Gandhi Memorial Trust, I naturally Shti Frw* Anthony (Madhya Pra feel the loss as a personal one as many of us must be feeling due to their desh): The article I was thinking of Association with him in . the cause of 293 P. & D. 2346 Motions for 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Adjournment 2347 [Shri Frank Anthony] Rule 6 of the Representation of the is 343 and I shall just read clause (2) ^ople (Preparation of Electoral Rolls) of It which says: Rules, 1950. Under that rule the po sition today is this. “(2) Notwithstanding anything in clause ( 1), for a period of fif In addition to the electoral rolls teen years from the commence prepared by the various Scales in ment of this Constitution, the then: respective regional language or English language shall continue to languages, the Election Commission be used for all the official pur has directed the preparation of the poses of the Union for which it rolls in an additional language in re- was being used immediately before |ard to certain areas of the following such Commencement:” - My submission is that since the State electoral roUs were previously being Area Additional drawn up in English in respect of Uiygtmge elections to the Central Legislature... Bihar Serai - kella - khar sw a n Some Hon. Members: No; no. Not of Singhbhum Dis in Bengal; not in the Punjab. trict. Oriya Mr. Speaker: Order, order. Bombay Bombay city. English Shri Frank Anthony: So far as my Madras Ichapur & Sompeta home province which happens to be Taluks of Srikaku- Madhya Pradesh is concerned, I know 1am District. O iy a that the electoral roUs so far as Adoni, Alur and elections to the Central Legislature Rayadrug Tdluks of were concerned, were being drawn up Bellary District. Kannada m English. Now the roUs are being prepared only in Hindi, leading, as Orissa Plains poition <.f Par- it has done in Madhya Pradesh, to lakimedi and Bor- hundreds of people being disenfran hampore Taluk a of chised. Berhampoie Sub Division uf Ganjam Mr. Speaker: The difficulty appears District, and Guru- to be that the hon. Member is perhaps pur and Rayagada confusing the script with the language. Taluks of Rayagada Telugu Now, the names which are to be prin Sub-division of ted will be the same in both the Korapur District. languages. I do not see there will be any difference. What he really means This is the provision that has been is that they should be printed in the made. If my hon, friend has any English script. Therefore, I wanted to grievance against the orders passed know from him *the particular article by the Election Commission under in the Constitution. Whatever that may Rule 6 and he feels that there are be, I do not know how this motion certain areas in which additional can be admitted. The matter is of rolls might be prepared in English, importance no doubt: it is definite his proper remedy will be to make enough as well. But I think it is a an application to the Election Com matter which is more or less in the mission, hands of the Election Commission. The hon. the Law Minister might enlighten Shri Frank Anthony: May I make me on this point. a point, Sir? The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): Mr. Speaker: The matter does not The matter is very simple. The posi require any further consideration. I tion is this. Immediately before ttbe only wanted to know how far this Constitution the language that was motion could be admissible and it used for the purpose of preparing clearly appears to me that it does not electoral rolls was not English. It deserve to be admitted. was left to the Provincial Govern ments to prepare the rolls in their Shri Frank Anthony: But I would regional languages with the additional like to point out...... proviso that if they felt that the electoral rolls should also be prepared Mr. Speaker: Whatever that may be» in some other language than the re I do not consider there is scope for gional language, they might do so. any further arguments on merits. This provision which existed imme Shri F r^ Anthony: But may I diately before the commencement of raise a point of order on this? the Constitution has also been adop ted by the* Elec^on Commission in Mr. Speaker: Later on; not now. 234 ft 28 48 Motions for 5 FEBRUARY idSi Adjournment D e m o u t i o n o f H o u s e s b u il t b y been enunciated in terms of the ^sui^ R e f u g e e s ances given by the hon. the Prime Minister, these people were not entitl ed to any alternative accommodation Mr. Speaker: The other motion is even then, alternative accommodation by Mr. Kamath and relates to— was offered to them in the area known as Northern Extension. The twenty “The action taken by the Delhi people who were willing to be trans administration in forcibly and ported were given free transport. Not callously demolishing the houses only this. Tents were provided for built by refugees and throwing the them. On that day, and probably foi* latter on the streets in the severe a few days thereafter, they were giveri cold, despite the fact that this free raUon by the Delhi Administratioi^ House is considering appropriate Over and above th.'s I am assured by legislation in this regard, and re the Chief Commissioner of Delhi that gardless of the assurance given he has already passed orders to give by the hon. the Prime Minister them even financial assistance. The that the policy with regard to the rest of the people were not to be found eviction of refugees would be hu there. No force was used and there mane.” was nothing like inhumanity as sug gested in this adjournment motion. If The important point, as it appears the problem is to be dealt with in th^ to me, is that while this House is con way it cannot be dealt with. It will sidering some legislation, steps for be absolutely insoluble and Delhi will eviction are being taken. That seems to be a sufficiently important pomt be a city of slums. in this particular motion. I should Uke The Government policy has been to know what the Government have to to gwe alternative accommodation for say. those people who have been in posses sion and who have built up construc The Minister of Works, Production tions up to the 1st of February, 1949, and Supply (Shri Gadgil); I do not as a matter of obligation. For those know whether it is the hon. Member s who have built constructions after that intention to have a full discussion so but up to August, 1950, when the Bill, far as the policy is concerned. In to which reference has been made in this motion as it is there is no speci this, was introduced, we do not give fic mention of any particular area any undertaking but we propose to do where such thing has happened. But as much as is possible. But every from the enquiries I made as soon as week about 150 hutments or construc I received noUce of this adjournment tions or buildings—call it by whatever motion it seems obviously to be related name you like— are coming into exis to the demolition of a few construc tence, and if we show any slackness the tions in the area known as Damdama problem will become impossible. I near the Roshanara Scheme of the therefore want merely to give the facts Improvement Trust. so far as this matter is concerned. But if the House desires to discuss this, it I want to give full information as will soon have an opportunity next far as possibe to the House. There week when the Bill will come before are 500 huts there: many of which the House after its consideration m have been there for more than a year. Select Committee. Out of those about sixty wTiich, ac cording to the authorities of the Im Shri Kamath (Madhya Pradesh): provement Trust, came into existence These houses which were demolished only three months ago were to be de by the Delhi Administration had been molished, because they were on a built before the Bill was introduced in plot which was sold by the Improv^ Parliament, and I would like to know ment Trust to one of the citizens m from the hon. Minister why the Delhi Delhi, and it held up the further im Administration could not stay their plementation of the Improvement hand till the Bill was finally disposed Trust Schemes. Notices were regular ly issued to the sixty people and of by the House. after the period of notices was over, at the request of the authorities of Shri Gadidl: The answer to that is the Improvement Trust, the Delhi that if a Bill is oending it does not Administration, as it is bound to do. mean an automatic injunction on any provided police help. About a dozen administration to stop anything that is constructions were* demolished. It was possible under the law as it stands. So done in day time. Nothing was done far as the wishes of the members of the after sunset. The next day when the Select Committee and the Sub-Com police authorities went there, out of mittee that was appointed by the the sixty people only twenty were there. Select Committee go, we have substan Although under the policy that has tially respected them. 2350 Motions Jot 5 FEBRUARY 1951 AdjoUfriinM 2351 12 JNoon Sub-Committee had specifically r€(itiest- ed the hon. Minister that he should see. Shri J. K. Kapoor (Uttar Pra to the tests which we have applied The Minister Food and Africul- previously about these motions. It tore (Shri K. M. Munshi): So far as appears that the state of things is a this adjournment motion is concernedr continuing one and it is a matter I appreciate the anxiety of my hon. which can better be discussed when friend to have all the facts placed be the Budget comes up for discussion or fore the House and I myself would be some other related subject comes up very glad to do so at an early oppor for discussion. I do not see haw I can tunity. If perhaps he gave a Short give my consent to have an adjourn Notice Question, I would be able to ment motion on this subject. give all the information that he seeks and I hope that would satisfy him. Prof. S. L. Saksena (Uttar Pradesh): This report was published some time Shri Hu5»sain Imam (Bihar): If Gov back and I was assured that when the ernment are pleased they can give a report was published the recommenda day to discuss this matter. This is a tions would be put into effect. The matter of sufficient importance not season has already commenced and only to be discussed on an adjourn unless there is peace among the labour ment motion but a day should be de classes of the sugar industry, sugar voted to it. production will be greatly hampered. I therefore consider that this is a mat Shri Tyagi (Uttar Pradesh): Before ter of great importance and should be I say anything I want your ruling with discussed in this House. . regard to the admissibility of this motion. I want to bring on record at The. Minister of Food and Agricul least once during the history of this ture (Shri K. M. Munshi): With re Parliament that there was one adjourn gard to this adjournment motion. I ment motion which was strictly in may say that It is not a matter of ur accordance with the rules. 1 plead. gent importance at all. It seems that Sir. that the motion is according to the recommendations of the Tariff the rules, i.e., an adjournm.ent motion Board were made long a^o and the on a definite matter of urgent pul^lic matter for discussion is as to the policy importance can be moved. I submit whether the recommendations were that the motion _that I have made is implemented and if not implemented, on a definite matter, it is urgent, it is what were the reasons for it. As re public and is important. I therefore- gards the strike. I may say that the submit that it is absolutely admissible, strike has collapsed. There is no unless, of course, you in your pleasure strike now and the matter, therefore, withhold your consent to let it be dis is not urgent at all. Then the state cussed. I submit. Sir. that all of a ment namely, the aftermath is still sudden as a bolt from the bhie the holding up sugar production, is. I am reduction fell on the people and e\ery afraid, not correct, because the col child was deprived of one or two lapse of the strike has led to stimula loaves of bread every day. It :s a tion of sugar production. matter on which there are all sorts of misunderstandings in the country. My second submission is that this I^ople attribute all sorts of motives in is really a matter which falls within the matter of efficiency, inefficiency^ the purview of the UP. Government management, procurement and some because the sugar factories in which people accuse the State Governments the strike took place is in U.P and and others accuse the Central Gk)vern- therefore it is really a matter for ment for mismanagement. I would them and not for us. FinaUy, I do not therefore submit. Sir, that the matter want to say anything on the merits is important and it will help Govern because there are no merits to this ment in establishing their position and adjournment motipn. their prestige in the country, so Ihnt the country may aopreciate the posi Mr. ^lealcer: Of course, it is obvious tion and stand by Government in this ttat the matter is neither urgent nor food crisis. So. it will be iust in the does it relate to the Central Govern fitness of things. I hope. Sir, CJovem- ment «o far as the strike is concerned. ment will not take it as a c-ensure Therefore, I rule it out of order. motion. Tn fact it will be complimen- tarv if I give them an opportunity o f C u t i n F o o d R a t i o n s explaining their position to the nation at large. Mr. Speaker: Then there is another motion by Mr. Tyagi, saying that the The Prime Minister and Minister of Hotree do stand adjourned to discuss External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal an urgent matter of public importance, Nehrn): Sir, it is for you to decide on viz,, the recent cut in the supply of the question raised by my hon. friend food rations of the people residing in whether it is a legal or constitutional the ration-controlled areas of the matter, but so far as Gbvernijient are country, I should like to know the concerned, we are anxious and eager hon. Minister’s views. to place all our facts and consult the i m Motions for 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Adioutnment M55 [Shri Jawaharlal Nehru] Mr. Speaker: To decide that ques tion at this stage will be a problemati House in this matter. The only ques cal thing. tion is: What is the most suitable method of doing so? If this very motion was considered a little later, it will be more convenient for the House Shri Kamath (Madhya Pradesh): or as my hon. colleague suggested, per May I ask whether the Prime Minister haps a better course would be if a will make a statement on the interna Short Notice Question was put and tional situation, and if so, when? an answer given and later on, if neces sary, we shall allot a day. Let the Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member may House be in possession of facts first, better leave it at that. and then we can discuss this later. We Shri Fraiik Anthony (Madhya do not look upon it as a question of Pradesh): May I raise my point of having to defend Government etc. but order, Sir? rather as one of dealing with a diffi cult situation in full co-operation with Shri Kamath: May I know the reply the House and the country. to my question, Sir? ‘ Shri Tyagi: I would agree to the Mr. Speaker: I am not permitting it Short Notice Question. at this stage? ' Mr. Speaker: What was passing in Shri Kamath: At a later stage? my mind was—I have no doubt the motion is definitely a matter of urgent Mr. Speaker: He may make* a re and public importance but my attitude quest later. was first of all a little more than that— whether the purpose of a discussion Shri Kamath: I am asking the Prime on such a matter will be fully served Minister. by an adjournment motion or there Mr. Speaker: He must consult him should be a fuller debate; and I was outside the House. myself inclined to request Govern ment to give more time to this, and Shri Kamath: I am asking in the if Government are agreeable, as I House; it is not a matter of privilege. . think they are, then, of course it is no use wasting the time of the House Mr. Speaker: Order, order. over the adjournment motion. So when I say that this adjournment Shri Frank Anthony: My point of motion should not be taken up, it is order, with all due respect to the Chair, not because it is ruled out but because is this: is the Speaker authorised to the House may have opportunities...... sui^sede a mandatory and clear pro vision of the Constitution? Here is a Dr. Deshmnkh (Madhya Pradesh): mandatory provision that English shall May we take it, Sir, that you have ac continue to be used. I am not con cepted an adjournment motion for cerned with the academic assertion of once? • the hon. Law Minister that the States could use other languages. It is stated Mr. Speaker: Not yet. In between, very clearly that English shall be used I was saying, as suggested by the hon. and English was being used by Madhya Minister of Food and Agricultuie, hon. Pradesh Government. Members may put in questions, get as Setb Govind Das (Madhya Pradesli): much mformation as they want and No, Sir. be better prepared for a discussion of the debate that may take place. I Mr. Speaker: Order, order; let him trust that this will suit Government. proceed. Shri K. M. M udsM: I have no objec Shri Frank Anthony: These provi tion. sions are inescapable. There is only one interpretation that can be put Shri Tyagi: I have no objection upon them. Can the Speaker super either. sede the mandatory provisions of the Constitution? Shri Hussain Imam: Whon will the date be fixed? Mr. Speaker: It is very clear on the facts that have come out and as ex Mr. Speaker: It will be according to plained by the hon. Law Minister that the convenience of Government. So, it there is practically no ground for is not that the Chair rules out raising this point of order and it is the motion, but the hon. Member does raised on certain assumptions W'hich not move it. are tantamount to an incorrect inter pretation of the Constitution. I do not Shri Tyagi: I take it that it is In think I need add anything more. order. 2366 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code *S5t PRESIDENTS ASSENT TO BILLS with his Bill, may I make a most hum ble suggestion and it is this; either we Mr. Speaker: Now, the House will finish the more important and shorter proceed with the other business. The Bills in the agenda, and then take up Secretary will lay bn the Table a the Hindu Code Bill and finish it, or statement showing the Bills passed by let it be understood that the Hindu Parliament during November-Decem- Code Bill w’ill be considered from now ber, 1950. and until the Hindu Code Bill is finish Secretary to Parliament: Sir, I beg ed no other Bill will be taken up. to lay on the Table a statement show Either of the two courses must be adopted. It seems that some people ing the Bills which were passed by who are very much in favour of the Parliament during N^vember-Decem- Hindu Code Bill think that they are ber 1950 and assented to by the merely playing with time by taking President. [See Appendix X, annexure up this Bill, considering it for a short No. 10.]. period up to one stage, and then put ting it off further for a longer spell of time. That is rather unfair to every PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE body concerned. Therefore, mv first respectful request is this. Let us A m e n d m e n t t o U n io n P u b l ic S e r v i c e finish thesp shorter and more important C o m m i s s i o n ( C onsultation ) R e g u l a Bills, as for instance, the Preventive t i o n s Detention Bill. Under that Act, a The Minister of Home Affairs (Shri number of persons who were arrested, Rajagop^achari): I beg to iay on the were released under the orders of the Table a copy of Notificatioa making High Courts. They have again been certain further amendment in the re-arrested and the whole thing has Union Public Service Commission been held up in expectation of a more (Consultation) Regulations, in accor comprehensive Bill which was pro dance with clause (5) of Article 320 mised by Government. I submit, Sir, of the Constitution. [Placed in Library. that, in the interests of law and order See No. P-129/51]. and also in view of the fact that justice should be allowed to run undeterred, we must finish the most important R e s e r v e B a n k o f I n d ia (S t a f f ) R e g u legislation, namely, the Preventive l a t i o n s , 1948 Detention Bill first, then the Employ ers’ Liability Bill, and then sit down The Minister of Finance (Shri C. D. on the Hindu Code and finish it alto Deshmokh): I beg to lay on the Table gether. I hope my suggestion would a copy of the Reserve Bank of India be acceptable to the hon. Law Minis (Staff) Regulations, 1948. [Placed in ter. Library. See No. 130/51]. Mr. Speaker: Is this suggestion ac ceptable to the hon. Minister? PREVENTIVE DETENTION (AMEND The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambed- MENT) BILL kar): No, Sir. The Minister of Home Affairs (Shri Mr. Speaker: So, we will proceed Rajagopalachari): I beg to move for with the further consideration of the leave to introduce a Bill further to Hindu Code Bill. amend the Preventive Detention Act, 1950. Shri Nariruddin Ahmad (West Ben gal): Sir, 1 have a point of order. The Mr, Speaker: The question is: Hindu Code Bill is before the House for a very long time. Meanwhile, “That leave be granted to intro some important things have taken duce a Bill further to amend the place, namely, that the Constitiition Preventive Detention Act, 1950.” has been passed, and a large number The motion was adopted. of Acts and sections have been declar ed to be ultra vires of the Constitution. Shri Rajagopalachari: I introduce The present Bill would seem to offend the Bill. against certain * definite provisions of the Constitution. We have enarted so many things in the Constitution HINDU CODE—contd. that I was amazed to find that many relevant Acts are declared ultra vires. Mr. Speaker: The House will now There are two provisions in the Cons proceed with the further consideration titution: One is that legislation should of the Bill to amend and codify cer not be discriminatory. This is enacted tain branches of the Hindu Law, as in article 15; clause (1) of that article reported by the Select Committee says: Shri R. K. Chaudhnri (Assam): Sir, “The State shall not discrimi Ijefore the hon. Law Minister proceeds nate against any citizen on Hindu Code. 5 FEBRUARY igsi Hindu Code [Shri Naziruddia Ahmad] Mr. Speaker: I cannot stop a Mem ber, unless I know what he is going grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex ...... ” to speak, and I cannot know that unless he speaks out. So in order to I submit that the Bill is confmed to know what the hon. Member is going Hindus. Within that expression to say, I must hear him, and that is ‘Hindus’, a large number i.»f classes who the only democratic way in which we would not be_ ordinarily Hindus are can go on. attempted to 6e brought. Even apart from that, there are large classes who Shrimati Dnrgabai: But, will he be will be outside this Bill. I submit that allowed to refer to certain clauses of there is discrimination between differ the Bill? ent castes and persons following dif ferent religions. The words ‘only of Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member religion’ do not seem 1o make any knows that every person who wishes difference. There is discrimination to argue his case is at liberty to between different sections of our citi speak; of course, if I find an hon. zens on the ground of religion. TTie Member is abusing the liberty or is phrase ‘only of religion’ does not mean repeating himself, I shall certainly much, for I find there is no other stop him. reason why there is difference between the different religious sects, except on Shri Kaj Bahadur (Rajasthan); Sir, groijnds of religion. That is one I would like to know by way of a thing. ruling from you whether the hon. The second article which I would Member can use such derogatory Jike to submit for the consideration terms as he did. when referring to of the House is...... certain provisions of the Constitution. He said that “ subject to public Shri Tyagi (Uttar Pradesh): May I morality, health, etc.” are meaning point out. Sir. that last time when we less terms. Can he make such adjourned, it was decided and all observations? agreed,— he was also a party— that no dilatory motions will be made. Shri R. K. Chaudhuri: Sir. I sub mit that when a point of order is Mr. Speaker: Order, order. He is raised and when the Speaker is listen not making any motion. He is only ing to that point of order, there should raising a point of order, according to be no interruptions from any hon. him. Member. Shri Naziniddin Ahmad: I shall be very brief, Sir. Mr. S p ^ e r : Order, order. Shri B. Das (Orissa): But, he is Shri Nazimddin Ahmad: I submit making a long speech. ted that the words in clause ( 1) o f article 25—“Subject to public order, Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: The other morality and h e a lt h d o not really article to which I would like to refer mean an3rthing serious. I think they is 25(1). It says: are the usual dreamy kind of safe guards which have no legal signifies “Subject to public order, ance. The article further says: morality and health ...... ” which do not mean...... “ ...all persons are equally en titled to freedom of conscience ShrimaH Dorfabal (Madras): In and the right freely to profess, the name of raising a point of order, practise and propagate religion.” is the hon. Member allowed to argue the question on the merits of the With regard to the subject of marri case? age, it is considered by all devout Hindus that marriage is part of their Mr. Speaker: He is arguing and he religious profession and practice. So is entitled to argue; let us not be far as I know, a Hindu thinks of impatient with the people who differ. marriage as part of his religion, and’ if a man has no son, he, it is believed, Shri Sonavane (Bombay): What is goes to a particular region in hell, his point of order? Shri Tyagi: Order, order, I have no- Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member son. should hear what he is saying. Mr. Speaker. Will the hon. Mem ber resume his seat? Order, order. T Shri Sonavane: Is he allowed to want the hon. Member not to inter argue it? rupt. 2360 Hindu Code 5 F E B m A R Y 1951 Hindu Code Shri Naziraddin Ahmad: In order may be true in respect of some of the to ensure against a particular kind of provisions at the most, not all the pro hell, the man should have a son, and visions. And the proper procedure and in order to have that, he must marry. time to deal with them would be when That is one of the ten samskaras of the particular provision which he a Hindu, It is a religious practice, thinks contravenes the Constitution, and in order to have a son, a man comes up for consideration, not till can have one wife or more than one. then, because to say all the prDvis'ons: Therefore, I submit that this provision are of that type, and therefore there- curtails the Fundamental Right given should be no consideration of the Bill,, in article 25(1). I am not raising a would be going too far. point which is only of academic interest, for this clause has been That is the short way in which I utilised by the Bombay High Court can dispose of all the objections recently in declaring a certain Act— which the hon. Member has urged. Prevention of Bigamous Marriages This does not mean that I agree withr Act— to be ultra vires. his view. But assuming that his view is correct, still the proper time would* Dr. Ambedkar: By the Bombay be when the relevant clause comes up^ High Court? I am sure that is not for consideration. This House is per correct, it was probably some magis fectly competent to add to, or sub- trate. stract from the Bill as presented to the House, if the House comes to the Slrri N.«i7iriiddin Afamad: The qvies- conclusion that a particular provision tion before us is whether soiTie of the is not proper or offends against the provisions relating to marriage may Constitution. But it cannot be decided not be ultra inres of the Constitution. by the Chair just at the very beginn There is also the ground of discrimi ing. nation. in view of article 15(1) of the Constitution. There are numerous I do not think I need go into the other articles dealing with minor as merits of the arguments as to how far pects of the question. but I think, there is really any discrimination or these two would suffice for the time how far marriage is really a question being. I am well aware of the princi of religion and so on and so forth. ple that the Speaker cannot rule out a point because the legality of it is I think we shall now proceed withr doubtful. But these are real stumb the Bill, clause by clause. ling blocks and I would request you. Sir, to consider the legality of the Clause 2— (Application of Code) Bill. As we all know, a large number of Acts and sections have been Pandit M. B. Bhargava (Ajm er): declared ultra vires. Even at the time I have got an amendment standing ia the Constitution was passed, objec my-name, proposing the insertion o f tions were raised that these might be a new clause 2, after clause 1. declared ultra vires. We have enacted these Fundamental Rights and any Mr. Speaker: Yes, that is right The thing inconsistent with them, to the hon. Member may move it now. extent of that inconsistency, would be null and void. There is no way out Shri Tyagi: Sir, before that, may I of it. If there is any law, any Act, refer to a ruling you gave once, and which is in any way inconsistent with to the ruling which you gave just these articles, those laws or Acts, to now? Once when I raised a point the extent of that inconsistency, shall about a Bill being declared ultra vires,. be void. That is the serious question the ruling was that it was for the before us now. Should we pass an Courts to decide whether it was ultra enactment which would be declared vires and that it was not within the null and void? Should we not recon purview of the Chair. Sir. do you! sider the Bill in view of the structure hold to that view now or will you use of the Constitution which we have discretion in declaring certain clauses chosen to give to ourselves? ultra inres or otherwise of the Consti tution? Sir, these are some of the matters which I venture to submit for your Mr. Speaker: I do not think I have consideration. yet any grounds for changing m y view. If, however, grounds are shown Mr. Speaker: I do not think I need I may reconsider the matter. go in detail over the various points raised by the hon. Member. Mr. Nazir- Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava (Pun uddin Ahmad. The short answer jab): Sir, ordinarily clause 1 is taken which I can give to whatever he has after all the clauses are finished. In stated is this. What he urges now regard to the Hindu Code I find from 3162 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1931 Hindu Cod€ 2S6S [Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava] Mr. Speaker: I am going by the the ^endments to clause 1 that some order so far as the provisions of the of them involve questions of a very Bill go. The official amendments will substantive nature. They relate to come later on. apphcabiUty of the Code in certain states. Many amendments to clause 1 Shrimuti Durgabai: If the official nave been put on the order paper amendments are moved first they may and may I request you kindly to con cover the points to be raised later by sider whether it would be possible to non-official amendments. take up clause 1 first? Mr. Speaker: We will go by the Mr. Speaker: The reason for taking order. up clause 1 at the end is to see that it may be properly worded, after Dr. Ambedkar: May I make a seeing the final form of the various suggestion in the interest of economy provisions m the legislation. The hon. of time...... Member will see that sub-clause ( 1) t>f clause 1 says as to what the name Shri Tyagi: Withdraw the Bill: that of the Bill shall be: sub-clause (2) is the best economy of time. ■deals with the territorial extent of this legislation and sub-clause ( 3) Dr. Ambedkar: That would be too speaks about the date from which the much of an economy. If you look at "Bill will come into force. the various amendments which stand on the order paper you will see .that Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: most of the amenLdments are mere Territorial extent is a substantive variants of one another. There is no ■43uestion. amendment which is very substantially different from the other amendments. Mr. Speaker: Even in regard to I was therefore suggesting whether it that, after going through the provi would not be a proper procedure to sions of the Bill it may be possible permit Members to move their amend for us to see more clearly as to ments and then to have a general dis whether the provisions of the Bill cussion rather than to permit each ^should apply to all parts of India or amendment to be moved, have a debate exceptions should be made in respect on it and then to dispose of it, there of certain provisions in respect to after have another amendment moved, certain States or areas. To my mind, have a debate on it and then to dispose it appears more advantageous to take of it. I was thinking that in the clause 1 at the end, for then the interests of economy of time the pro House will have a more clear picture cedure I was suggesting might appeal as to what the provisions of the Bill to you. ^re. That is a better procedure and we shall proceed with clause 2. Mr. Speaker: In fact, we have been As regards Pandit M. B. Bhargava’s following that procedure. Where amendment, it more or less seeks to amendments involve a common point, •amend clause 1 and he wants to put all the amendments are moved and in a new condition for the application there is a common discussion. That o f the provisions of the Bill. is the practice which we have been following in the past and therefore I Dr. Ambedkar: It is really an shall follow that practice here too. amendment to clause 1. Shri Sarwate: I beg to move' Pandit M. B. Bhargava: I may be idlowed to explain. For clause 2, substitute: :Mr. Speaker: The amendment says: “ 2. Application of Code.—(1) This Code applies to all Hindus. “ That this Code or only such part of it shall come into force (2) The expression ‘Hindu’ in if and when it is ratified on a this Code, shall, unless othwwise referendum by majority of the provided, mean a citizen of India. Hindu electorate of Parliament.” (3) Notwithstanding an 3^hing That is, really speaking, an amend contained in the Special Marriage ment to sub-clause (3) of clause 1, Act, 1872 (III of 1872), this Code though he places it as a separate new shall apply to Hindus, as defined clause. No further arguments are in that Act, and whose marriages necessary and I shall proceed with have not been solemnized under clause 2. the provisions of that Act prior to the commencement of this Code.” Shri Sarwate (Madhya Bharat): Will the official amendments be m o v ^ Mr. Speaker: May I suggest one first or will mine be taken up first? thing more. Those amendments that SM4 Hindu Code 3 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 2998 are .printed, as v(.ell as others too, was not a Muslim, Christian, have been circularised. So hon. Parsee or a Jew by religion; Members may only mention the (d) to any child legitimate or number of the amendment they pro illegitimate one of whose pose to move and I shall take it that parents was a person who it has been moved. All the amend was not a Muslim, Cliris- ments relating to one clause and one tian, Parsee or a Jew by subject will be moved and discussed. religion; Shri Tyagi: The point which the (e) to a convert to any religion amendments seek to amend will be except the Muslim, Chris discussed separately. tian, Parsee or Jew by reli gion.” Mr. Speaker: Yes. ;Sfari Jhimjhimwala (Bihar): I beg The Minister of State for Transport to move: and Railways (Shri Santhanam): Sir. For clause 2, substitute: is it in order to go against the funda mentals of the Hindu Code itself. The “ 2. Application of Code,—This amendment seeks to npply the Code Code applies to all the citizens of v to all Christians, Muslims and others. India that is Bharat, irrespective Does it not go beyond the Code itself? of their caste, creed and irrespec I would like a ruling from you, Sir, tive of their belonging to or pro on that subject. ^ fessing any religion.” Mr. Speaker: Let the amendments Dr. Ambedkar: I beg to move: be moved first. In clause 2,— Shri Tyagi: The amendment seeks to Hinduise the Muslims, which is against (1) in sub-clause ( 1),— the law or Constitution. Everybody (i) in part (a), for “Hindus, has been guaranteed the liberty of that is to say, all persons practising lys religion and to bring the prqfessing the Hindu reli Muslims and Christians also under gion” substitute “ persons the Hindu Code will mean interfering who are Hindus by reli with their religion. gion” ; Mr. Speaker: Let the amendments (ii) in part (d), for “ Hindu reli be moved. ’ gion” substitute “Hindu, Buddhist, Jaina or Sikh Shri Tyagi: This amendment has religion” ; been moved and therefore it is out of order, (2) omit sub-clause (4). Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: I beg to Shri Indra Vidyavachaspati (Uttar move: Pradesh): I beg to move: (i) In part (a) of sub-clause (1) of For clause 2, substitute: clause 2, for “Hindus, that is to say, “2. This Code applies to all all persons professing the Hindu reli Indians irrespective of their reli gion” substitute “persons who are gion, caste or creed”. Hindus by religion” . (ii) Omit part (b) of sub-clause (1) Pandit Thakur Das Bhargaya: I beg of clause 2. to move: (iii) For part (b) of sub-clause (1) For clause 2, substitute: of clause 2, substitute: “ 2. Subject to the provisions of “ (b) to all persons who are .section 1-this Code applies— Buddhists, Jainas or Sikhs by religion;”. (a) to all persons who are Hindus, Buddhists, Jains or (iv) For part (b) of sub-clause (1) Sikhs by religion; of clause 2, substitute: (b) to any other person who is “ (b) to any person who is a not a Muslim, Christian, Jaina by religion”. Parsee, or a Jew by religion; (v) In part (b) of sub-clause (1) ot (c) to every woman who clause 2, for “Jaina or Sikh” , Substi married any person who tute “or Jaina” . Hindu Code 5 FEfiRUASY .1951 Hindu Code m t ^ r dar Hukam Siagfa (Punjab): I gion who has married a Hmdli, beg to move: Buddhist, Jain or'^ Sikh.^*' In part (b) of sub-clause (1) of Shri Nazirnddin Ahmad: I beg to> clause 2, omit “or Sikh”. move: Shri Naziriiddin Ahmad: I beg to (i) Omit sub-clause (3) of clause 2. m ove: - (ii) Omit sub-clause (4) of clause (i) In part (c.^ (i) of sub-clause (1)' 2. of clause 2, after “illegitimate” insert: (iii) After sub-clause (4) of clause ‘'who, if he has attained the age 2, add: of eighteen years, is himself a Hindu and” , “ (5) Notwithstanding anything in this section this Code shall (ii) In part (c) (i) of sub-clause (1) apply only to such areas or to- of clause 2, for “whose parents are such persons or classes of persons Hindus” substitute “ whose parents are in any State from such time or or have been Hindus”. by such stages as' the State Legis (iii) In part (c) (ii) of sub-clause lature may from time to time by ( 1) of clause 2, after “belongs or be Act provide.” longed” insert “ and who, if he has Shri Jhunjhunwala: I beg to mover attained the age of eighteen years, is himself a Hindu”. To clause 2, add the proviso: » Shri S. P. Misra (Uttar Pradesh); I “Provided, however, that not beg to move: withstanding anvthing ror.lai.ed in the above clauses, this Code After part (c) (ii) of sub-clause (1) shall not apply to any person, of clause 2, add: unless such person got his name registered with such authority, ‘‘(iii) to any abandoned child and in such manner, as may be Liought up as a member of the hereafter prescribed by Parlia community, group or family to ment, within one year after this which such parent belongs;” . Code comes into force, and in case of a minor within one year after Shri Nazirnddin Ahmad: I beg to such a minor attains majority.” m ove: Mr. Speaker: I called out each For part (d) of sub-clause (1) of Member who has tabled his aniend- clause 2, substitute: ment or amendments and I find that Shri Shiv Charan Lai and Prof. K. K. “(d) to a convert to the Hindu Bhattacharya were absent when religion, subject to his rights and called. But. as we are following a liabilities before his conversion.” procedure of calling out the number Babn Gopinatti Singh (Uttar of the amendment it is possible that Pradesh): I beg to move: these two Members may not have exoected that they would have been After part (d) of sub-clause (1) of called so soon as that to move their clause 2, add: amendments. Though I am very clear “ (e) to a Muslim or Christian that they should have been in their converted from Buddhism, Jain seats when the Bill is taken up for ism, Sikhism or Hinduism in his discussion, as we are starting this life time.” . procedure in the beginning. I am thinking of permitting them to move Shri Nazirnddin Ahmad: 1 beg to their amendments later on if they move: turn uo in the House and wish to move them during the course of dis Omit sub-clause (2) of clause 2. cussion on this particular clause, Sardar Hnkam Singh: I beg to ^ r i 3. R. Kapoor (Uttar Pradesh): m ove: Sir. there are two amendments of In sub-clause (2) of clause 2, after which I have given notice. One of *‘Parsi” insert “Sikh” . them is an amendment to Shri Jhun- jhunwala’s amendment No. 18 in Shri Brajeshwar /Prasad (Bihar): I Supplementary List No, 1. beg to move: Mr. Speaker: Is the hon. Member ^fter sub-clause ( 2) of clause 2, moving further substantial amend insert: ments? “(2A) This Code also applies to Sliri J. B. Kapoor: No. I may be s o ' any woman professing any reli called but not No. 2. Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 2zm Mr. Speaker: No. 2 of course is an by this Code, and gets such amendment to the amendment of Shri declaration registered in accord Jhunjhunwala. That I am accepting ance with rules prescribed for for moving the purpose by the Central Govern ment.” Shri J. R. Kapoof: So far as No. 1 is concerned, it does so happen that it Mr. Speaker: Amendments moved: has been . given the shape of an 1. For clause 2, substitute: absolutely original amendment though I had given it to the Notice Office in “ 2. Application of Code.— (1) the form of an amendment to Mr. This Code applies to all Hindus. Jhunjhunwala’s amendment No. 13. To put it in a better form the Office (2) Th« expression ‘Hindu’ in has given it as a separate amendment. this Code shall, unless otherwise Therefore, I hope you will admit it. provided, mean a citizen of India. The whole thing will be open to discus (3) Notwithstanding anything sion and the admission of this will contained in the Special Marriage not in any way interfere with the Act, 1872 (III of 1872), this Code propjer disposal of the subject. shall apply to E^ndus, as defined in that Act, and whose marriages Mr. Speaker: It is not a question have not been solemnized under of disposal. If I were to permit the provisions of that Act prior amendments at the last minute, they to the commencement of this will bfe coming in even till the last Code.” stage of voting. Therefore, I am unwilling to waive...... 2. For clause 2, substitute: “ 2. This Code applies^ to aH Shri J. R. Kapoor: Sir, I was making Indians irrespective of their reli this submission only in view of the gion, caste or creed.” special circumstances of the case. Originally I had put in the first amend 3. For clause 2, substitute: ment as an amendment to Shri Jhunjhunwala’s amendment No. 13 in “2. Subject to the provisions of Supplementary List No. 1. But then section 1 this Code applies— to give it a better form the office (a) to all persons who are thought it might be put as a separate Hindus, Buddhists, Jains or substantial amendment. If the Chair Sikhs by religion: is so pleased it can be taken in the original form. (b) to any other person who is not a Muslim, Christian, Mr. Speaker: Very weU. As it is a Parsee, or a Jew by religion; change in form only I will permit him to move it. (c) to every woman who married any person who was Shri J. R. Kapoor: I beg to move: not a Muslim, Christian, Parsee or a Jew by religion; (i) For clause 2, substitute: “2. Application of Code.—^This (d) to any child legitimate or Code or any part or parts there Illegitimate one of whose of applies to all the citizens of parents was a person who was India that is Bharat, who after not a Muslim, Christian, attaining the age of majority, Parsee or a Jew by religion; declare in writing that they shall (e) to a convert to any religion be governed by this Code or any except the Muslim, Christian, part or parts thereof, as the case Parsee or Jew by religion.” may be, and get such declaration registered in accordance with 4. For clause 2, substitute: rules prescribed for the purpose “2. Application of Code.—This by the Central Government.* Code applies to all the citizens of I also beg to move: India that is Bharat, irrespective of their caste, creed and irrespec (ii) In the amendment proposed by tive of their belonging to or pro Shri Banarsi Prasad Jhunjhunwala, fessing any reUgion.” in the proposed proviso to clause 2, for the words beginning with the words 5. In clause 2,— ^‘unless such person” to the end, sub ( 1) in sub-clause ( 1),— stitute: (i) in part (a), for “ Hindus, that “ unless such person, after attaM- is to say, aU persons profes* ing ^ age of majority, declan^ sing the Hindu religion** in that he or she, as the substitute “persons who are be. shall be goyemed Hindus by religion” ; « 7 0 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 2371 [Shri J. R. Kapoor] Sikhism or Hinduism in his life (u) in part (d), for “Hindu reli time.” gion” substitute “Hindu, 18. Omit sub-clause ( 2) of clause 2. Buddhist, Jaina or Sikh reli gion” ; 19. In Sub-clause (2) of clause 2 (2) Omit sub-clause (4). after “Parsi” insert “Sikh” . ’ 6. In part (a) of sub-clause (1) of 20. After sub-clause ( 2) of clause 2, clause 2, for, “Hindus, that is to say, insert: all persons professing the Hindu re ligion” substitute “persons who are “ (2A) This Code also applies to Hindus by religion”. any woman professing any religion who has married a Hindu, Bud 7. omit part (b> of sub-clause (1) dhist, Jain or Sikh.” of clause 2. 21. Omit sub-clause ( 3) of clause 2. 8 . For part (b) of sub-clause (1) of clause 2, substitute: 22. Omit sub-clause (4) of clause 2. add^ sub-clause (4) of clause 2^ “(b) to all persons who are Buddhists, Jainas or Sikhs by reli gion;” . “ (5) Notwithstanding anything in this section this Code §hall 9. For part (b) of sub-clause (1) of apply only to such areas or to such clause 2, substitute: persons or classes of persons in any State from such time or by “(b) to any person who is a such stages as the State Legislature Jaina by religion”. may from time to time by Act 10. In part (b) of sub-clause (1) of provide.” clause 2, for “Jaina or Sikh” , sub 24. To clause 2, add the proviso: stitute “ or Jaina” . “Provided, however, that not 11. In part (b) of sub-clause (1) of withstanding anything contained clause 2.. omit “or Sikh”. m the above clauses, this Code 12. In part (c) (i) of sub-clause (1) shall not apply to any person, un of clause 2, after “illegitimate” less such person got his name insert: registered with such authority, and in suc.i manner, as may be “who, if he has attained the hereafter prescribed by Parlia age of eighteen years, is himself a ment, within one year after this Hindu and”. Code comes into force, and in case ' 13. In part (c) (i) of sub-clause (1) of a minor within one year after such a minor attains majority.” of clause 2, for “ whose parents are Hindus” substitute “ whose parents 25. For clause 2, substitute: are or have been Hindus”. “2. Application of Code.— This 14. In part (c)(ii) of sub-clause (1) Code or any part or parts thereof of clause 2, after “belcftigs or belonged” applies to all the citizens of India insert “and who, if he has attained the that is Bharat, who after attaining age of eighteen years, is himself a the age of majority, declare in Hindu” . writing that they shall be governed 15. After part (c) (ii) of sub-clause by this Code or any part or parts ( 1) of clause 2, add; thereof, as the case may be, and get such declaration registered in “(iii) to any abandoned child accordance with rules prescribed brought up as a member of the for the purpose by the Central community, group or family to Government.” which such parent belongs;”. . amendment proposed by 16. For part (d) of sub-clause (1) of Shri Banarsi Prasad Jhunjhunwala, clause 2, substitute: m the proposed proviso to clause 2, for the words beginning with the words “ (d) to a convert to the Hindu ‘ unless such person” to the end, subs religion, subject to his rights and titute : liabilities before his conversion.” “unless such person, after attain 17. After part (d) of sub-clause (1) ing the age of majority, declares of clause 2, add: in writing that he or she, as the case may be, shall be governed by “ (e) to a Muslim or Christian tjus Code, and gets such declara converted from Buddhism, Jainism, tion registered in accordance wifn 237S Hindu CodM 5 FE W U A B Y 1951 B M u Cod€ rules prescribed for the piirpose with the interpretation which has been by the Central Government.” tried to put on this term “Hindu”. Again, I may point out that in this^^ Shii Nazimddin Ahmad: Sir, I would Bill itself, the term “Hindu” is not like to suggest a short-cut. There are restricted to Hindu law, whatever that a large number of amendments, though may mean. In sub-clause (a) of the* governing almost the same matter. I definitions, it is said to apply: think if all these matters are dis cussed together there would be confu “to all Hindus, that is to say, to sion and I think, from experience, that all persons professing the Hindu we will not get replies to our points. religion”, If we consider separately, we can cur and, in (b): tail our speeches to prevent repetition. I suggest this only as a matter of “ to any person who is Buddhist, opinion. Jain or S i^ by religion”. So. this Bill seeks to extend the Mr. SpeaJcer: If we are all deter provisions to Hindus plus Sikhs plus mined not to repeat the same thing Buddhists plus Jains. I need not go> over again, we need not be very much into the history of the Hindu religion.. afraid of repetitions. Of course, the Jainism was certainly at one time Chair may be put to a much greater opposed to and contradictory to the strain in watching that there are no Hindu religion, if that means Sanatana. repetitions, but the Chair will try its Vedic Dharma. Whereas Sanatana best to do so. Vedic Dharma relied on the Vedas Jainism did not rely on the Vedas. Dr. Ambedkar; And apply sanctions Therefore, Jain and Hindu Sanatana to Mr, Naziruddin Ahmad! Vedic Dharmas were entirely different religions. Shri Sarwate: Sir, at the outset an objection has been raised that my The House then adjourned for Lunch amendment would enlarge the scope of till Half Past Two of the Clock. the Bill. In the course of my speech, I shall try to show that if it does so at all, it is not being inconsistent either The House re-assemhled after Lunch with the object of this Bill or with the at Half Past Two of the d ock . provisions of the Constitution. [P a n d it T h a k u r D a s B h a r g a v a in [P a n d it T h a k u r D a s B h a r g a v a in the Chair.] the Chair.] Shri Sarwate: When the House rose As far as I know, there has been no for lunch I was trying to show that in one definition of “Hindu”. The conno the Bill along with Hindus, persons of" tation and denotation of the term other religions are also sought to be “Hindu” has varied from time to time included—religions which were contra and from place to place. Possibly, dictory to and opposed to Hindu reli there would be a time when it would gion, i.e., Sanatana Vedic Dharma. For come to mean what I have suggested instance. Buddhism was against in my amendment. I may quote Hinduism; so also was Jainism. certain instances where the term But these two religions have been “Hindu” is interpreted variously. included in the Hindu Code Bill. So, Satyarthaprakash, I am told, does if the mover of the Bill is entitled to say that “Hindu” means: “whosoever include certain religions other than resides in India” . Savarkar, reformer Hinduism, then I am entitled to move of Bombay has suggested that whoso that certaiil other religions may also ever is bom in India and who holds be included and in doing so I think I her as his sacred land is a Hindu. He shall not be outside the scope of the has suggested: Bill. I was going further to show that the- Bill under discussion also seeks to codify and reform Hindu law. If I ^ II remember aright, it has been stated in the Statement of Objects and Reasons. (that is to say, one who considers India Possibly that has been done to obviate to be his homeland and also , as his or remove any possible difficulty that sacred land should be considered as the Constitution may bring in at this Hindu.) I need not point out that in stage or later on .' What I mean is this. America and also probably in South Article 25 of the Constitution lays Africa everybody who comes from down that all citizens of India are India is known as “Hindu”. There equally entitled to freedom of cons fore, my amendment does not seek to cience and the right freely to profess, do anything novel but is in conformity practise and propagate relicion. 11 at :2374 Hindu Code 5 JEBJSLIJARY. ^951 Hindu Code 2376 [Shri Sarwate] Vedic Dharma, What this Bill seeks man were free to practise his own to do is that whereas previously X was religion, then he would certainly be at hundred and Y was zero and the total liberty to marry according to the was hundred, X is sought to be reduced tenets of his religion. But what is to zero and Y raised to hundred. They sought to be done by this Bill is that are exactly reversing the position. he will be forced to marry in a parti While once the shruti and smriti was cular way. The principles laid down the whole source and enactment nil, in this Bill may be entirely opposed to now the enactment would be the whole the tenets of his religion. I have a source and shruti and smriti nil. leeling that objection to this may pro Therefore, what I am now saying is bably be sought to be covered by the that instead of giving this benefit only ^subsequent clause of article 25 which to those who are Sanatan Vedic reads: ^ Dharmis it should be extended to all. That would be doing on the professed “ (2 )Nothing in this article shaU lines of the Bill. My object is to give affect the operation of any exist- equality to all persons who are inside mg law or prevent the State from the limits of India. I am neither making any law— partial to the Hindus, nor to Sikhs, nor to anybody else. (a) regulating or restricting any economic, financial, political or other secular activity which It may perhaps be pointed out that may be associated with religious I am trying to extend the scope of the practice; Bill to persons who were^ not examined; for instance, Christians and (b) providing for social wel Paris were not examined, and that it fare and reform or the throwing would be unfair. My answer is that open of Hindu religious institu it would be unfair to include the Sikhs tions of a public character to all either because they were not classes and sections of Hindus.” examined. So, in point of fairness By my amendment I want to j*eform there is not much to choose between "What is Hindu religion. I want to re- the provisions of the original BUI and the amendment which I am seeking to -^orm Hinduism by widening its scope move. The logical course would be to all those persons who are citizens to examine those persons who were of India, including Christians, Parsis Jews, etc. not examined previously and to get their opinion. If necessary the Bill Now, Sir, what is Hindu Law? may be held over or Returned to do -Hmdu law is said to be based on this. .shruti and smriti, that is Vedas. Fur ther it is said that that is not the only The chief claim of this Bill is said -source. The other source is the enact to be this that it is based on a very ment by proper legislature or proper good sense of fairplay^ justice and -authority. So, let us say that enact equity. Suppose it is said, for instance, ment plus Vedas is equal to Hindu law. a person has three sons and three If X represents Shruti and Smriti and daughters. If he has affection for his Y represents enactment, Hindu Law is sons, he has equal affection for his dau equal to X plus Y. The value of X in ghters. If the sons are 1o inherit be The beginning was 100 and that of Y cause they are bom of the parents it zero. But as time went on encroach follows that the daughters also having ments were made by enactments one been born of the parents they should by one with the result that the posi also take the inheritance. That is the tion was completely changed. only reason that can be advanced for giving the inheritance to the daughter, The very basis of the Hindu reUgion namely, that she is bom of her parents, IS the caste system and secondly the and therefore she necessarily ought to particular way in which marriage is get a share in the property of the held. It is held to be sacred; it is held father. In a way it is right. Then it to be sacramental and therefore it is should be right not only in the case of • said to be indissoluble. It cannot be Hindus but of Muslims and Sikhs also; dissolved. There cannot be a divorce it should be so in the case of Christians according to the strict Sanatana Vedic and others. Therefore, if the law has Dharma as practised by orthodox to be amended it should be made appli Hindus. But one by one these funda cable not only to Hindus but to all citi mentals are being removed. For zens who happen to be within our juris instance, divorce is allowed: in certain diction and for whom we can legislate. cases castes have been totally ign<»ed and in this Bill it has been said that And here I am a very good support. there will be no caste. So &is BiU I shall just quote what Dr. Ambedkar takes away the whole basis of himself has said at a previous stage of '•Hinduism’ according to the Sanatan the am quoting from pnge 3$51 2T37e Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Coite 2S77 of the report of the proceedings of the include, for instance, a Muslim or a House: Cnrlstian. The phrase “ unless other “If my hon. Xriencl’s alternative wise provided” would show that it is was that there ought not to be sulficiently elastic. My definition communal laws of inheritance and would be sufficiently elastic to enaJble communal laws of marriage every religion to aaapt the Code to its but there are to be a own tenets or whatever hon. Members common civil code applying to all think that their religion requires them sections, all communities, in fact to do. So there should be' no difficulty in this way either. For instance the aplying to citizens without discri Roman Catholics think that divorce is mination as to religion, caste or not allowable in their case. If they creed, I am certainly one with are convinced they can say that ifor him.” purposes of divorce “Hindu” should He said this in the course of the dis not include a Roman Catholic. cussion on the Hindu Code Bill at some According to this Code there can be previous stage. two ways of marriage, sacramental and An. Hon. Member: He has changed civil. Sacramental marriage would his opinion, mean a marriage done according to Shri Sarwate: He should keep his religion. It may be any religion—it word. may be Hindu, Jain, Christian. That does not come in the way either. F^pr Th^re is also a provision in the Con instance there are necessary cere^ stitution in my favour, and that is monies'in the Sanataha Vedic Dharraa, article 44 which says: What I am suggesting is that people of “ The State shall endeavour to those religions need not be afraid that secure for the citizens a uniform their whole religion would he nullified. civil code throughout the territory Shri Tyagi: What about those whp of India.” are already married according to ano A civil code necessarily means a code ther Code? which deals with marriage, inheritance, Shri Sarwate: My hon. friend Mr. adoption and so on. The scope of the Tyagi may suggest the necessary civil code is co-terminous with and al amendments at the proper stage for most the same as that of the Hindu that. Code Bill. The article in the Consti tution sc^ys that “ the State shall endea I therefore suggest that ray amend'^ vour...... ” , which is being made by ment meets the provisions of this amendment. So it is but proper the Constitution; it is . ijs that the earliest opportunity should be conformity with what has been said by taken to put this provision of the Cons the Mover of the Bill, the hon. Dp. titution into effect and Dr. Ambedkar Ambedkar; it meets also aU the claims - should be the lirst person to accept my which have been made for this BiU, amendment. those of logic, justice and fairplay. I therefore commend my amendment to , While the discussion on this Code the House and to the Moyer of the was going on in the previous session, BiU for acceptance. some of my Muslim friends, and also some of my Parsi friends, expressed Mr. Chairman: There are sOTae their entire satisfaction and were very amendments from the hon. Member loud in praising the provisions of this Shri Gopinath Singh, They have come Code. I would welcome, them and today. The rule in this House has been appeal to them to support me. When that unless the hon. Member in charge they consider that the provisions are of the Bill Qonsents, the Chair does n VT % ^RT? ?rr ?r?FT i i ^ % tpr 5 trf qpt qp- ^51^ arrsr ?r : ^ fjp jj % ^ ^ ^ ^ I ^ ^rf t fV 's ? ! ^ |3n I ^TRvr «n* 1% i?r> ar^ Tf^r aftr 3T«reT «n ft: ^ ^ I ^ t ^TT T^Rf 5 virsRrPmr 1 3TT7 ^fisRi-frorT ^ r t I ^ ?ri?r ^ ^ ftr f ^ 1 *1^1 r % 5iT?rar ^ 1 1 TT aiTsr ^T ^ f ^!Tf^ *n^ ^ 'Tff ^nrr ^i^r 1 5^ 'TRT ^ f I !J5 ^ ’>1 I f% ^ 1 ^ ir!h- iT t^ fRrr I ^ Jil I ftJ 5fr ^ am ^^Tff ^nrr srr Tfr f 1 ?riRr?rfiRr5TT ^ % 5 3ifr % 7 w ^ ^ r % 3TTO ft 3Tl%ft I ^ ’j s ^ iT i^ ?>?rr t sfh: ^ ^ ^ I W W 3PT^ 3TTT ^ srra^ i w ^ ^ ^ ^ 9T^T ^ t ^ ^ ^ (Indian ^ ^ ^ Code) ^ ^rf^ I 3RT sTiT ^ ^ ^ sfk ^ ^ >TTCr- % ^3^ TT ^ ?5T^ ^ I f^d*l ^ aftr '^TRT % ^ ^ ^ yi^ ^ % f^5^ I^<4 ?rt 3TPT ^ *T ^3TT$ *T^ ?rt ^ srrr ^ ^ ctt^ - \ ^ -R ^wcfr i f^ ^ ^ 3R?r t I w % ^5T ^ ^ I «tid ^ ^ 5TT^ % HTTPT 2T^ t f^TITT ^ ^TTT^ ^ I ^ STTSr ^ W ^SfFTT ^ nf^WPT t ^ ^ ^ ?m3T^- ^ ^JRT =^rr^ f I 3TFT ^ 3TiWR ’TT ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ (secular state) | i ^ ^I’i’i'f ^T55^ ^ 3TTT ^FSRR % ^ ^ ^ I I ^ [m R TO f , ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I ^irf^ ^ ^ ^ ?TI- ^ f 3TT f : % f^ : ^ri^ T T f^ : I f% TT3F3T % 3 F ^ 3TTT ^ JTPMRITT^ zft ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ fe r t ?fh: «PT ^ 3Tt# e ?tr ^F Wl WTFT ^ ^ t ?r^ <.iaHi ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ «ff I 3?^ ^ ^ ar^ft trt" % ’ TFT# ^T?yf %fcTlT ^ ^7T^ ^?THT t 3fk ^ t 3ftr ^ qft?r#!T ^ ^^911 % ^ «l ^ 11 W ^[T^ ^ 3Tr ^^ p r «nr ^ T R ^^ ^3(TW I W 3T ^H'»Tl % «I*kI ^ I ^ ftpT ^ i t 5R?rr i tr^ ^«n> T ^ ^?rr «it afV^ ^rnproftr^*^ ^ ^ ^ ^ *T^ ^aTFTT Hl^dT ?fT # ^r^ft ^ ^ ^iTT^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ fOT ^ w ^ (clause) qrr sn^ €t ^ ^ fSTT 1 ^ f% ^ sttT % 3fVt ^ + ^TcT ^ '3rrr ^ ^ % ^ f^ ^ ft ft I 338 1 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 236S On a point fcln nJ iL ^ understand the Member is raising the question of ^ ^ 5firrr I % |iT -competency of this Parliament.. >TT?5ff % ferr !Tr Hon. Members: No, no. ’Tm f % feti ^ ^ # ? had^'already been decided ^ t at fqjT: grpTST the hon. Member was making. He W f I Detent ^blSt House is not com- W 3TTT *R TC WPT ^ ^ ?hnf An- i country, he holds that this House is fully competent. s r r ^ i 31^ ^ VS fiysrr : arrq’ ^ ^ ^ f sft irw % feiT t I Tnr # ^ ^ ?ft fi>T 3rrr ^ ^ I t I 1 ^ ^ ^ STTT gTTj ^ ^ ^Tf^, fHTf,f%^ % fejj 5>iT I if ^ IT? ^ 51^ I ifff ^ I w ^ 5?: % in 'Srnr i ^ - ’>1 t ? ^ ^ . ^ n m I 5ft ^■' 3TFT ^ ^ gfh: ^rpr ^ ftr ^ ^ 3f.*^ C ^ ^ ^ ^ spT t ’ 1 W ^ Tf ^ f% arY^ ?7ft arrf^ 3TT? # ^7^ Trf^fT ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ aftr t I 3 1 ^ ^ ^ * ^ 1 1 !)■ ’T^’ ^ sTTsr 5 ^ ^ 5?TR^ % .a ^ aiTirT^ %3TTm qR 5ft f I ^ ^ t 3^^ ^ ^INt ^ ^J^ ^ afh: ?rfhrr ^ ^ ^ I apR anr ^ 3 ^ I ftr ^ ^ fiTET ^T ^ ^ 5 ^ *R ^f>R?r ^ ^ ^ ^ r^^ M ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^nr I am- | ^ ^ T 1^ ^T ^ fWrr ’TFT 3rnRT ^rd 2Tf TTZT t ^ ^ %tn %T$t T^t 11 t t ^ ^ JTff t \ ^rfr 3? 3T=5^ TO ^ t ^'T ^r^rf^T 3TTT ^ 3TOT t, arrr ^ 5nf%=^T % ^ amim^t t ’ ^ a r ^ TO I ^ ^ ^ ^ arn- w ^ % 5rr^ |t I ^^^ arn^ t*;^ ^ f^nn"^# 'TR^ I arr? tT'3!4trd+ «q^«rr aflr arrfq-ifr o t f^ i ^ f ^ ^?r ^FT arfV^^H ^ ^ ^rmrf^ «t^-pti ^R?TT q f^ ^ft ^ arm y6 f^ i| % ^ ^\i.M ^ f% ?TTt ^ TT ^JFT ^ I arPT ^ TO ^ 3?k ^ ^ tTT^ ^ I 50^ ^ ^fj- ^ ^ f ^ ann: arrr# t o ^ ^ anrr ^ % ^5ypT 7 1 % anq ^ ^ t ^ ^ ^ ^FRT ^R?TT q i ^ afk airq «FT5fft t I ^ P" # ^ ^ ^T STfT ^ TO I # 3tY ^?TT af^T l5T % fetr ^ 3pr^ % ^r# ^T% f, ^ % - ^ a n f w sqr^fsrx ^ ^ afrc ^ ¥FRTT 3 F # ^ 5RF/T ^>r ^ 5Ffe?T % M ^ft ^ 338« Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 2387 (English translation of the above speech) a r k f^-=|r^ ^ f?.Tr % Shii Indra Vidyavachaspati: Sir, my t ftr; 3TT^j5fe] ^ ameiidmBDt is that ttie Hindu Code Bill when passed, should be made appU- a ik 3ft^ ^ cable t 9 every Indian. There should be no distmction of caste, creed or religion ^sprft ^ % ^r 2frr^?r therem. This is my amendment. In the begmnmg, I would like to submit ^ ^ ^ I as to why I am speaking today. I have been a member of this ParUament for 3Tnr ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ fr n r t t one year. But I have not taken a single mmute of the House. It was because ^ ^ ^ WR our hon. Speaker had said that every =0^ ^«IT I I mmute of Parliament costs fifty rupees. Thus I have saved thousands of rupees of this Parliament, but I am not in- [M r . S p e a k e r in the Chair] c lm ^ to make^a saving today. The rea ■ ^ ^ a r r f t son IS that I have a fear lurking in my u ^ t^ere I % 3rrq ?rtiT ^ would be difficulties both if this Bill IS passed and if it is not. I am a t ^ ^r«T «jrr f^rnr ^ staunch social reformer and I want that there should be ^ afiT ^ such l^islations for social re forms. The State has a right 1mf%^nT*^Tr ^ r f ^ i to frame laws for making reforms in the society. Therefore what I want to ^arrr ftr ^ »rr%rr i pomt out is that it cannot be said that It is an interference with any religion. TT g tj, ^ On the other hand I am of the opinion ^ «n, ^ ^ ?rrr that the State and the Legis lature must take steps to provide fOTT I ^ ^ ^ for such legislations relating to social reforms. I do not say that this Bill Passed but I am afraid, this Bill will not be passed in the fonn ^ ^5rm I w M ariq « r o m which it has been presented although Dr. Ambedkar and our Prime Minister SR % ^ 5Ft have repeatedly expressed the view that it would be passed. I think even ^ 3ftr ^ ^ T5#' I ^ in a long session as the Budget Session, we will not be able to pass it unless 'Tr?r ^ r aftranrr the guillotine is used. But it is not ^ ^nrr TPj ^ r ^ arrr proper to use guillotine in the case of such bills which affect the whole coun- % ^ ^ ^ I 5T^ ?ft arrr ^J'st difficulty. The other difficulty is that by passing the % ^r*TT ^rfsqrW ^ ^V?: anrr Bill m its present form, we will give encouragement to an evil which must 3rrr TRT ^ ^ ^ ^ ftpr# not be there and against which we have always stood up. And that evil is com- arrr % ?rm i munalism. If we pass the Hindu Code BiU, this evil of communalism will ^ arrT ^ ^ ^ raise its head for ever. As this Bill is not applicable to all section of the population it will definitely give rise to communa- T^T I I ^ T T ^ i 3 fk hsm. If the BiU is not passed, I fear the avenue of making social reforms 4 g ^ qr^ ^ 3fh: ^ through legislation may be closed for^ ever. I have very little hope of its be arnm % trt ^ appr | ing passed but if it is passed, the feel- mg of communalism will arise and % ^ ^ r ferr srr^srk what should have been a boon will turn into a curse. Therefore when I ^ ^ qr f^r i saw these obstacles and difficulties in the way of social reforms, I decided ^ r ^ 2T^ ^ ^%?rr s i w to say something. I would clearly sub- I miv that I am in favour of making laws relating to social reforms. I do not 2388 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 2380 want to go into the details of the pro circumstances, the Government cannot posed reforms, but I would like to say make any law for a particular commu a few words on subjects like polygamy. nity. The lawyers can discuss a lot on I want that monogamy should be en this subject, but as a layman, I would forced by law in our country not only only submit that in a State where reli for Hindus but for all sections of the gion has not been given any place or population. In the same way, I also consideration, it is against all justice to say that there should be justice for frame laws for the followers of a parti women and their economic rights cular religion alone, and such a step should be safe-guarded. I do not will always encourage sectarianism. believe that only Hindu women are oppressed. There are women of other This Bill originated in the days 'o t •communities as well who are also British rule. During that time, Hindus oppressed. These atrocities must go. and Muslims were used to be k ep t. It is better if the society itself removes apart from each other and everything 'Uiese atrocities, otherwise law must was done to encourage communalism. intervene. If a Constitution can be Thus, the Bill started in that form. I enacted on principles of equality and want to submit as to why this remnai^t equity for the whole of the country, of the British period be allowed to why not laws be made for the entire slick on while we have thrown out all society? In the same way I think, others so that there may be no discri there is the question of divorce. We mination against a particular section of hear nlany quotations from the Shas- the society. tras against it. I do not want to dis-- Shrimati Durgabai: On a point cuss that subject, but I can say on the of order, Sir I understand the iDasis of Dharma Shastras that it is hon. Member is raising the question of ^Tong to say that this has not been competency of this Parliament... JTientioned in the Shastras. Everything for and against a certain subject is Some Hon. Members: No, no. rgiven there. There are 137 Smntis. In Shrimati Durgabai: At least that U -the principal one i.e. Manusmriti it is what I imderstood him to say. If that twritten: is so, I wish to tell him that that issu^ Vidvadbhi sevitah Sadbhir- had already been decided. Jiityamadwesharagibhih Mr. Chairman: I am sorry the hon. Member has not understood the point Htidayenabhyanugyatoyo dhar the hon. Member was making. He ma stannibodhata Sannibodh. never said that this House is not com (meaning thereby the Dharma is petent but, on the contrary, he holds •that which is constantly practised by that this House is fully competent. the good, the learned and those who .are devoid of prejudice and attachment Shri Indra Vidyavachaspati: T^t me and which is in full accord witii the finish all that I have to say and then iheart). perhaps there will be no doubt in this regard. - Manu has himself said that there were Smritis before him. So these By this Bill the Government want to :Smrities are in existence for a very long achieve a big thing, that is they want lime. It is wrong to say that there to remove all injustice that is done to ;should be no reforms in our society. the women. I do not think there is any It will put an end to all the progress Indian social reformer who will not co in our country. All necessary reforms operate with the Government in tliis m the society must be made. I will not matter or who will not support this? go into details because the Bill will move. But I would like to ask one 'be discussed clause by clause later on thing from those who want to remove and amendments can be made this injustice done to the Hindu women. at that stage. Therefore I am This is also an injustice that a man can not in favour of postponing it. marry four women at a time But one thing seems certain, that many but a woman is not al difficulties will arise if it is passed in lowed to do so. This is an this very form. In my opinion, the injustice tf must go. Is this injustice Government may enact an Indian done to Hindu women alone and not Code, but it should be applicable to to Muslim women also? I ask my sis the whole country. The reforms ters whether they will tolerate that should be made for the whole of justice should be done only to Hindu India. women and not to Muslim women? I will now point out the This injustice done to them must also disadvantages of its being be removed. applicable to Hindus alone. How it can be tolerated that in Firstly according to the Constitution justice may continue to be perpetrated o f free India, we do not on them. Why do not the Govern twant communalism to grow. ment include them in this Law? It [Shri Indra Vidyavachaspati] ^ way, we should introduce such a social order that may be applicable to the Muslims and other.s are enacted, it . whole of the country. Such a Bill would mean interference in their reli- should be brought forward. n. If the enactment of social laws interference in their religion, how rthis law is not an interference in If Hindu women face some difficul religion of Hindus also. We • there ties, the Muslim women also face fore, should make such a law which them. When we have framed such may be applicable to all. If it is inter a comprehensive Constitution and set ference in religion, it is for all. I up a uniform economic order for the am of opinion that it is not an inter whole of the country then it is not ference. . The law should be appli very difficult to draft such a BiU. cable to all alike, Muslims, Sikhs and Remember, truth is eternal; place, Christians. There should be no dis time and person cannot prove obstacle crimination about it. It is as much in it. If this principle holds good, our duty to do justice to Muslim then it should be true for all, and if women and women of other religions it is not true then it cannot be true as we do justice to Hindu women. for anybody. I think the intention of Therefore the present form of this Government is good. It would be Bill iihould not be there. better if that is utilised for the benefit of the whole country. This Bill should There is another aspect, we may be redrafted and introduced here. have to face some difficulties regarding this enactment. As we know in I want to submit one thing* more, Bombay the Bigamy Act was challang- that here we faced the greatest of ed in the High Court and the High legal difficulties and complications, all Court declared it ultra vires. The those have been solved and many laws news has appeared in the newspapers, have been passed because of the fact also. that today the country wants to make progress on the basis of equality and , Several H ob. Members: Not High freedom, and is willing to accept all Court, lower Court. those laws as are based on equality. Shri Indra Vidyavachaspati: Well, If a Bill is drafted on this principle let it be Lower Court. Such difficul and made applicable to the whole of ties may arise. This Act will be chal- the country surely it would be accent langed in the Court. In his recent ed. This is my view point. But statement in Bombay Dr. Deshmukh this Bill is not so. Although the Gov had invited our attention towards this ernment are very hopeful, it is very aspect. We will- come across such a good that they are optimist, but they difficulty if we pass this Bill and if will find many difficulties in getting it is challanged and the issue is refer-' this Bill passed, it will require a three red to High Court or Supreme Court months’ session, even then with great then we may have to face new diffi difficulty they will ^be able to get it culties. Such difficulties may arise passed and then even after that there if we make it applicable only to are many obstacles to "be faced. Evfen Hindus. The Government may well if this Bill is got passed we will have realise that more than sufficient to face several difficulties before it is time has passed since this Bill enforced- and we will be involved in has been introduced and why it legal difficulties. I. therefore, will has not been possible to make ask. those who have framed this Bill, any progress in it. Even tlie and especially Dr. Ambedkar, who has ^formist Hindu Organisations do laboured hard for it and has worked not support it fully. Even the Re with firm determination, to broaden formers are inoving amendments to it. their outlook, and with their abilities To my mind the reason for all this is of legal profession, should make such that we have adopted a wrong measure laws as may be aoplicable to all for social^ reforms. If a few lines are Indians instead of Hindus alone. The put in wrongly, there are two ways present minor drawbacks in the Bill to correct them. In the first instan would be removed automatically a's , ce we may draw a line in between the path of tnrffifulness is straight. - them or secondly rub them out and draw a fresh straight line instead. TM r . S p e a k e r in the Chair] But what is being done is that one line is joined with the other line, thus I also wish to say this to my hon. forced insertions are being made. sisters that as they want that full In my opinion the best course justice should be meted out to Hindu would be ,.to withdraw it for re women, similarly full justice should' consideration and introduce such a also-"be done to Muslim women and' revised Bill that may have full support. women of other religions. They may As we have set up uniform political argue as to who would accept them. prder and economic order in the same But in Turkey reforms have takem 2392 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUAEY 1951 Hindu Code place, it is a Muslim country, and the age of majority, declare in there all have accepted those re writing that they shall be govern forms. As these reforms have been ed by this Code or any part or accepted in that Muslim country, parts thereof, as the case may be, similarly here also these reforms will and get such dedaration register be accepted. Therefore our sisters ed in accordance with rules pres should adopt the right course and ac cribed for the purpose by the cept these reforms without making any Central Government.” ' discrimination among themselves. Only then we will be able to get it Secondly, there is an alternative^ passed and if it is passed under such amendment. If this is not acceptable, circumstances, then such difficulties I would commend the other alternative will not crop up. Otherwise we amendment to the acceptance of the have great difficulties before us and House. The alternative amendment if we get it passed even then we will runs thus: have to face many difficulties. In the amendmmt proposed by I may tell them that I am not say Shri Banarsi Prasad Jhunjhunwala,, ing all this to put hindrance in the printed as No. 18 in Supplementary progress of the Hindu Code Bill. I List No. 1 in the proposed proviso am a staunch reformer and want that to clause 2, for the words beginning it should be passed, and with this with the words “ imless such person’ very intention I am submitting that it to the end, substitute: should *be so modified as to be made applicable to the whole of the country. “ unless such person, after attain It can be made applicable only after ing the age of majority, declares such a change otherwise not. in writing that he or she, as the case may be, shaU be governed by Shri Shiv Charan LsU (Uttar this Code, and gets such declara Pradesh); I beg to move an amend tion registered in accordance with ment standing in my name. I was not rules prescribed for the purpose present when I was called. by the Central Government.*" Mr. Speaker: He can move it now. Mr. Jhunjhunwala’s amendment, as' Shri Shiv Charan Lai: I beg to move; further amended by me, w^uld run a^, follows: Omit the proviso to sub-clause (2) of clause 2. ‘‘2. Application of Code.—^his Code or any part or parts there Mr. Spe^iker: Amendment moved: of applies to all the citizens of India that is Bharat ...... Omit the proviso to sub-clause (2) of clause 2. and then follows that this will be Shri J. R. Kapoor: Sir, with your applicable only to those persons who permission, I may read out the amend would make a declaration in writing ment on which I wish to speak, to re and so on and so forth; I need not re fresh the memory of hon. Members, peat that. The amendment runs thus: For clause 2,...... Sir, I propose this ameadment with^ a full sense of responsibility, and I Shri Jhanjhunwala; Which amend hooe I 'wnll not be misunderstood, as ment is the hon. Member referring to? I hope the two ^ previous speakers would not be misunderstood, for my Mr. Speaker: It is an amendment amendment is very much in line with which he has given notice of today. the two amendments which have al It is not printed in the list. • ready been moved by my friend: Mr. Sarwate and my friend Shri Indra Shri JhunjhunwsUa: We have not got Vidyavachaspati. Onlj’ mine is an copies of that. improvement on theirs. I would like* to submit first of all, that in propos-. Mr. Speaker: It was once read to ing this amendment, I am actuated the . House; he is reading it again. more particularly by the consideration that this Hindu Code should have an Shri 3. R. Kapoor: The amendment easy , passage in this House. That is runs thus: my first consideration. My second * consideration is that it should be -For clause 2, substitute: easily acceptable to the country as a “ 2. Application of Code.—This whole, to the various secdons of the- Code or any part or parts thereof community, to the various sections of Applies to all the citizens ol India the nation. And thirdly my considera that is Bharat, who after attaining tion is that it should not be said ot^ 2394 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 2396 [Shri J. R. Kapoor] make a beginning by doing something us that in this Parliament, in this contrary to the specific directive that ^imtry where we have a secular has been given to us by the Consti •^te, where we took very great pains tution. When we were sitting as the to frame a Constitution v/ith the back- Constituent Assembly—we all were in a s^ular state, we are now it, most of us, and many other emi trymg to legislate in a manner v/hich nent persons who are not here were smells of communalism, which clearly aiso there—^many Muslim Members were also there, and there were Parsis trying to legis late for one section of the community also, and there were also Christians, and persons professing every faith not for the others, that we are were there. All of them, as far as I nSfi legislate for persons who •profess one religion and are ignoring remember, unanimously agreed to the mterests of those who profess an these clauses in the Constitution, I other religion, or vice-versa, that we mean articles 15, 25 and 44. When all ihose persons professing every faith, Me tr ^ g to do sometliing to encroach were seriously and coolly and calmly >«pon the rights and religious customs considering what sort of legislation swtion of the community and we should have in this country, they ^ e afraid to encroach upon the rights ail unanimously decided that we and privileges of another section of should have a uniform legislation, so the community professing another as to be in conformity with articles 15 ^hgion. Therefore, I submit that if and 25 of the Constitution, and also amendment is a(‘cepted, it will article 44. What has happened since many advantages and •absolutely no disadvantage. then and now to compel u>, to persu ade us not to act according to those articles of our Constitution? Nothing I w ^ very happy to hear the point lia*? reall 3' happened since then, which JiT morning by my should persuade us to go contrary to friend Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad, not those provisions. On the other hand, wfth agreement we find that even persons profejtslng point of order laised by him. religions other than Hinduism, are but because of toe considerations and also anxious that we should have a toe reasons l^hmd his point of order, uniform civil code. Mr. Naziruddin -tod the considerations which weighed Ahmad is a representative of the ^ h him m raising that point of Muslims. He himself says that it is f point of order, not open to have a legislation which S tn permit wiU govern only one sec*tion of the ^ discrimmatory legis nation, but that one legislation must lation. He referred to article 15 of govern all the sections of the nation, ??• ^institution. He referied also to all persons professing various reli gions. That being so, I submit Jiff provisions there is no reason why we should S?? Hindu Code are beneficent and hesitate to legislate for persons pro f not be appH- fessing different religions. From the amendments that have been tabled fr i in his mind, I and have already been moved, I fuid that the Sikhs would like to go away from the operation of this Code. That is the effect of one of the amendments moved by my hon. friend Sardar ^ ^o enact a legislation whioh Hukam Singh. Then I find that there S e all sections of are other hon. Members who are and r h r ^ l’ Muslirns, Parsis, anxious that this clause 2 should be There is, of course so amended that it should not be Constitution-- applicable necessarily to all the States ^icle 44 to which reference was and all the community. My hon. S e Stab^ Th ^arwate. that friend Pandit Thakurdas Bhargava, attempt to hjve a uni as we all know, is a very groat social form civil code. True, that article is reformer, and he is always anxious to chapter of Funda- introduce legislations in this House niental Rights, but it is under thp directed towards social uplift. Accord PrinHni Directive ing to his amendment what he wants •«s STCcfflMllv rt, ^Constitution directs is that it should be left open to the US s^cincally that we should make various States to adopt the legislation S d l uniform Civil or not. He also desires that it should +KJ« • ^ whole country. Weil be open to the various communities tois IS the first occasion when we are either to be governed by the Code or In to have a civil code and not. Shri Tyagi: Surely H wi’l not be territorially uniform in that case 2397 £896 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code Shri J. R. Kapoor: Exactly. In religion hereto or hereafter, in fact it order to make it applicable to all the should be open to every citizen of territories and communities my amend India either to be governed by the ment should be accepted. It does not Code or not. restrict the operation of tliis Code to one territory or another, nor to one Dr. Ambedkar: Great liberal! community or another. On the other hand it extends the scope of this Shri J. R. Kapoor: Not only that, I legislation and seeks to embrace want that it should be open to any within its ambit Hindus, Muslims, body to pick and choose various parts Christians, Parsis or persons profess of the Code. I am making this state ing any other faith. ment with all seriousness, because of this reason. There are various clauses in this Bill which should be readily During the general discussion of acceptable to some but not to others. this Bill some good points were made Similarly there are other clauses by mv hon. friends Dr. Tok Chand which may be acceptable to others but and Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava. They said that this Bill v.ould operate not to all. in a great measure as a hardship on various sections of the Hindu com Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Does munity, among whom marriage and my hon. friend contend that the choice divorce laws are easy. In some parts of the person should be per clause? of the Punjab and elsewhere, it was pointed, marriages can be easi.y per Shri J. R. Kapoor: Not per clause formed. Why should they be depriv but various important parts of the ed of this easy manner of their Code. When I made that suggesUon marriages? I knew that it may require the legal intelligence of Dr. Ambedkar as also Dr. Deshmukh (Madhya Pradesh): Pandit Bhargava and other legal Easy marriage, easy divorce! luminaries to amend the various sections of the Code so as to make them faU in line with my amendmeri^ Shri J. R. Kapoor: In the matter of I am sure that this task is not beyond divorce they have easy laws in various the capacity of Dr. Ambedkar cr parts of the country, qpiong various Pandit Bhargava or other legal • sections of the people. Why should luminaries. Speaking for myself I those laws be made more difficult? am particularly in favour of the.clause On the one hand the contention of relating to monogamy and divoice. some was that marriage and divorce But there are other clauses which I laws were made more and more strict would not like to adopt. I would by the Code and on the other, the therefore like to have the liberty of contention of others was why should making a declaration to the fact that these marriage and div^orce laws be so far as I am concerned I would like enforced on persons who did not be to be govern*»d by the clauses relating lieve in them. My submission to monogamy and divorce and not therefore is that this Code, in what others, 1 would beg of this House ever form it is passed, should not be very seriously to consider the forced on any particular, section of suggestion. Firstly, that this enact the Hindu community, or the Sikhs pr ment should be applicable to the entire Jains. It should be left open to them nation, secondly, it should be open to- to be governed by it or not. Secondly, anyone to say by declaration that be some of the provisions of this ('ode— wants to be governed by this Code particularly those relating to mono and thirdlj% it should be open to him gamy and divorce, with which 1 am to say also that he wants to be in entire agreement and would like governed by this or that chapter. them to be made a little more liberal— are so good that I see no reason why Dr. DevShmukh: If the husband and the Muslims should not be entitled to wife differ on the issue of say divorce, have the advantage thereof. who will decide? My hon. friends Shri Sarwate and The Minister of Works, Prodactlon Shri Indra have moved their amend and Snpply (Shri Gadgil): The child ments. Particularly the amendme^it will decide. of Shri Indra wants that the whole Code should be compulsorily made Mr. Speaker: Let the hon. Member applicable to the Muslims. I do not proceed. want that it should be so enforced on Muslims just as I do not wan: that it Shri J. R. B^poor: If t}*e husband should be obligatory on every Hindu and wife differ on the divorce issue I to be governed by this Code. I want am prepared to give the choice to the that it should be open to a Hindu, wife, if thereby I can secure the Muslim, Parsi or for the matter of support o f the lady Members here. If that any person professing any other my suggestion is accepted, of course Hindu Code 5 FEfiEUARY 1551 Hindu Code 23901 [Shri J. RJC apoor] are various amendments that have tiie various provisions of t)ie Bill will been moved but I should first wish to have to be recast. It is a matter of speak on the amendment of Mr. principle. Once the piinciple is i>arwate and then oh the amendment accepted—namely that v/e should have moved by the hon. Dr. AmbedKar. I one uniform law for the whole feel inclined to support the amend-' cjJUntry, secandly that we should give ment of Mr. Sarwate on constitutional! the liberty to every citizen to say x;_basis and I feel that he hns certainly whether he wants to be governed by b ro u g h t forward an amendment which the Code or not and thirdly, the advances the cause of the Constitution, ^ liberty to pick and. ^hoose various m ease it accepted that it reqaires m£ff of the Code—proper amend- advancement I personally think it inents ^could of course be drafted. I hPr^ a section of Mem know how difficult it is but dimcult bers of this House w'ho do not regard if, certainly it is much easier what we have embodied than the tesk of g.ettmg this Bil] passed m the Constitution. I wouid beg o f b y , this House and certainly it is you to give me a few minutes to refer easier than to get the support of the to article 44 which reads: ' entire nation for this Bill as it is, “ The State shall endeavour to compulsOTily enforceable among the secure for the citizens a uniform Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists. civil C9 de throughout t.ne territory India . Therefore, I submit that my 01 suggestion should be very seriously considered. I hope and trust that if we consider it coolly. calmly, dis Now, this IS an article from the passionately and withoi!t any pre- Directive Principles of State Policv. - against it, certainly Although it is not contemplated that we shall be able to come to an agreed any decision of Government could be solution and perhaps within five or set aside by the Supreme Court or seven days we ma>^ be aole to pass could be regarded as illegal and this controversial measure. It will against law on this score. I don't satisfy everybody. It *vill satisfy know whether it would be competent ^ uniform for the Supreme Court to give a rul ^ w • ortliodox ing. But if we attach an 3* value or Hindus because it will not be necessary wish to Rive any serious consideration to enforce the Code on them; it will be to the Directive Principle:^ of State onen to them to be governed by it or Policy in the Constitution. I am unable reformers to see how by passing this Code we i w J r le.TisIation on would be endeavouring to secure for these lines because it will enable them the citizens a uniform civil code to decftre^ that they want to territory of India. I- legislation. It will What we would be doing by this Code would be entirely and directly contrary these -jubmissions I to w'hat IS laid down in article -'A commend my amendment for the Because this is not onlv not acceptance o f the House. endeavouring to secure for the citi zens a uniform civil code but trying to , Mv alternative amendment is also enact a different code for a section of on the^ same lines but it restri-ts thp the people. So, before v/e go ahead, before we waste any more time, wh Hindus only J? my first amendment, I should consider this point. And I am sure we are doing nothing else but f ^ in what- massed, should be wastmg time because for the next three days I am certain it wou'd not iS f 4 It entire nation, sub ject to the condition that it will be i farther than applicable only to those who declare pause 2 and we don t know how“ long after that we would bo touching if hi^lS^ governed by it. f ^ sugge.st.ion is not ^ suggestion has ^cem able for any reason, then I sub- ^eady made that it would have ®"^en«Jment that the ^ n far bettCT, if we reaU>^ wanted applicablo to the to nass ^ is Code, that one whole Hindus. Sikhs and Jains a<= has b'en session should have been devoted to To allot three days during whi< h o r there al.so it .should it jvould not be possible to advance Tait. ® such Hindus. Jains. Sikhs and Buddhists who by very far is, I consider, a pure waste of time, energy and money of this govem eTy‘ft* House. It can servo only one purpocte f { merely satisfying the Whims and fancies or dogged determi nation or inclination of certain amendments are concerned. There peoDle. It would be auite easy wben- we have got a couple of thousancT :2400 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 2401 people obstructing our vay or shout have so far been given as to why they ing slogans to desist Members of tliis are going to be substituted by new House from passing this Code, ta find words. If they ate actually omitted, one or two persons who would like to and if Dr. Ambedkar can persuade go to the law courts to a iTiling the House to omit those words, I think that what we are trying to do Ts not a very real difficulty may arise. If only not in keeping with the consti you eliminate “professing” how are tutional provisions but is di.rectly you going to define who is a Hindu opposed to what has been laid down. and who is not a Hindu. The words proposed are “all persons who are Shrimati Dnrgabai: Others also will Hindus by religion”. But how do we go to courts. know who is a Hindu by religion and who it not? Is it proposed that every person would be required to make Dr. Desbmnkh: Both sides will be a declaration? 1 don’t know what there. You will get a notice at the procedure is suggested and how it cost of those people who go there first. would be ascertained if a particular person is a Hindu or not. I would say that the words as they stood in Shrimati Durgabai: Otl^ers will be the original Code as it emerged out there on the basis of provisions re of the Select Committee have stood garding discrimination. the test of time. So far as my re collection goes, these words are there Df. Deshmnkh: Yes, there is dis- in Mulla’s Hindu Code and these, “crimination everywhere and that is words have been us^^ from very old exactly the objection that is raised. times. T hey. have a sanction of long If we enact this code as it is there usage. will be discrimination in favour of certain people and against certain In view of that, there is, in my others who are also handicapped similarly if not worse. That is a opinion, no need for this amendment and I would suggest that it should not point which goes in our favour. be accepted. I support the amendment moved by my hon. friend Shri Sarwate My second point on these amend on the ground that if we accept it, we ments is that I am opposed to the would be acting in the spirit of the Con amendment moved by Dr. An:bedkar. By his amendment No. 15 in the stitution. Otherwise all our efforts are' printed list, he wants the substitution liable to be fruitless in view of the con^ ^)f the words “ persons who are Hindus stitutional difficulty I have pointed out. by religion” for the words “ Hindus, that is to say, to all persons profess Shri Syamnandan Sahaya (Bihar): ing the Hindu religion” . It is very May I make a submission, in this con difficult to find out which version nection? There are several amend-, really holds the ground at the present ments moved formaUy by the authors, Tfioment when there have been so but the movers have not made any many revisions and such a huge let speech explaining their viewpoint. One o f amendments have been moved. It of such amendments is from the hon. is not easy to know where exactly we the Law Minister hiniself. Such 6t us stand. I don’t see what i^* wrong with who have not moved any amendment ^ e original provision contained in the to this clause and have an open mind Code as it emerged from the Select would like to hear the Government Committee. The wording there is: point of view as also the point of view of the movers of the other amendments “2. Dr. Ambedkar: The movers have sat manner as may be hereafter pres back. In fact, I am myself waiting to cribed by Parliament, within one hear them. year after this Code comes into force, and in case of a minor Mr. Speaker: The hon. the Law within one year after such a Minister is at liberty to choose hiis own minor attains majority.” time, but I did not caU upon him now because I thought that if he participated a’httle later it would be possible for him I want to assure the House that these to clear the ground. amendments of mine are not dilatory; nor am I opposed to all the provisions Dr. Ambedkar: I can speak at any of this Code. The main object in mov time. ing my first amendment is that, as has been p>ointed out by my hon. friend Mr. Speaker; He will be entitled to Mr. Naziruddin A.hmad, we have been two speeches that is to say, even if he passing many laws which are being participates in the debate now, he wiU declared ultra vires either by the High be entitled to reply. Courts or by the Supreme Court. It is therefore very necessary that before Shri Syanmandan Sahaya: He may we take any such BiU, Act or legislation into consideration we should make sure reply to the general debate on the that we are acting according to the clause, but as regards his own amend Constitution. If we pass any law and ment he must satisfy the House that ultimately that law is declared ultra there is some reason for moving that vires, it will be a mere waste of • the amendment on behalf of Government. time of this House and also waste of so much money. It will serve no useful Mr. Speaker: I think his position purpose. Under article 15 of the Con stands a little differently. He has to stitution it is laid down that the State take into consideration what others say ' shall not discriminate against any citi and then he will be able to explain his zen. only on ground of religion, race, viewpoint better. That is why I was caste, sex, place of birth or any of them. thinking of calling upon him at a The amendment that I have moved later stage, though not at the end. makes this Code applicable to all citi zens of India, that is, Bharat, whereas Sardar Hukam Singh: I do not know the clause as it stands is restricted how the impression has got into your only to a particular class of persons. mind that the movers-of the amendment If the law that we are passing is for do not want lo speak on their amend the good it is good for all iipople. It ments. is not right that we should discriminate Mr. Speaker: I never said ‘they never one particular community against an wanted to speak’. I said they did not other. We should not discriminate one try to catch my eye. In between, Dr. set of persons who are professing one Deshmukh got up and I called on him religion from another set of persons to speak. who are professing another religion if our law is for their good. If it is not Several Hon. Members rose— for their good, then it is not right that we should thrust any law or enactment Mr. Speaker: I am not sure whether upon a particular community or caste I should cedi Pandit Bhargava at this which is professing a particular reli stage— for personal reasons. Mr. gion. Jhunjhunwala. Shri Jbonjhunwala: Sir, I have given One of the points which I wanted to notice of two alternative amendments. make out was this: the House should One of my amendments reads thus: see whether this BiU is one which “ This Code applies to all citizens Parliament can make, especially as it is of India, that is Bharat, irrespec restricted to a particular kind of per- tive of their caste, creed, and irres 89 ns professing a particular kind of reli pective of their belonging to or pro gion. We can have such a law under fessing any religion”. article 25 of the^^Constitution. Now let us see what are the provisions in arti Alternatively, 1 have moved another cle 25 which entitle us take up such amendment which reads thus: legislation. Article 25 ( 1) reads: “Provided, however, that notwith standing anything contained in the “Subject to public order, morality above clauses, this Code shall not and health and to the other pro apply to any person unless such visions of this Part, all persons are person got his name registered equally entitled to freedom of con with such authority and in such science and the right freely to 2404 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code fess, practise and propagate reli are equally entitled to freedom of con gion.” science and the right freely to profess, practise and propagate religion.” If this^ Clause 2 of the Bill relating to the right has been given to the Hindus and Application of the Code reads: persons professing other religions, I do not see any reason why it is sought “ (1) This Code applies— to be taken away from Hindus by en actment of such laws, such as the one (a) to all Hindus, that is to say, now before us. I would ask the Law to all persons professing the Hindu Minister whether h^is not encroach religion in any of its forms or ing on the rights of Hindus of their developments, including Virashai- religious liberty sanctioned by the vas or Lingayats and members of Constitution. the Brahmo, the Prarthana, or the Arya Samaj; Clause (2) of article 25, however says (b) to any person who is a Bud that: dhist, Jaina or Sikh by religion; “Nothing in this article shall (c) (i) to any child, legitimate affect the operation of any exist or illegitimate, both of whose ing law or prevent the State from parents are Hindus within the making any law— meaning of this section; (a) regulating or restricting any child, legitimate or economic, financial,, political or illegitimate one of whose parents other secular activity which may is a Hindu within the meaning be associated with religious prac of this section: provided that such tice; child is brought up as a member (b) providing for social welfare of the community, group or family and reform or the throwing open of to which such parent belongs or Hindu religious institutions of a belonged; and public character to all classes and sections of Hindus.” (d) to a convert to the Hindu religion. But if this piece of legislation which is now under discussion is being enact- (2) This Code also applies to any ^ as a measure of social reform and person, who is not a Muslim, Chris for the welfare of the people, in that tian, Parsi or Jew by religion: case I cannot understand why it should be confined to persons professing parti Provided that if it is proved that cular religions and not extended to all. such person would not have been governed by the Jlindu law or by Shri Raj Bahadur: May I raise a any custom or usage as part of point of order. Sir. that law in respect of any of the matters dealt with herein if this Three or four hon. Members of this Code has not been passed, then, House have raised the point that the this Code shall not apply to that scope or application of this piece o f . person in respect of those matters; legislation should be extended to all t ^ citizens of Indi^ In the course of (3) The expression “Hindu” in the first residing of the BiU the House any portion of this Code shall be has already committed itself to the construed as if it included a person principle that the Bill shaU apply only who, though not a Hindu by religion to the Hindus. Having accepted this is, nevertheless, governed by the principle, is it now open to Members provisions of this Code; to take up this point anew and afresh. (4X Notwithstanding anything Mr. Speaker: The point of order Special Marriage practically comes to this—I am stating Act, 1872 (HI of 1872), this Code it in my own way. Briefly stated it shall apply to all Hindus whose would be as to whether some of the marriages have been solemnized amendnients which seek to extend the under the provisions of that Act application of this Code to communi prior to the commencement of this Code.” ties other than those included in the Bill is not tantamount to an extension of the scope of the Bill—is that the I have not been able to understand point of order? why this Code is being enacted only for the Hindus, if 'the right hs3 been Shri Raj Bahadur: The Home had given—as has been done under articl© agreed that this Code shall app^v to one 25— that “subject to public order, moral section of the Indian people alone. Can ity and health and to the other pro we now take a new decision that it visions of this Part, all persons shall apply to all? i2406 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 2407 Mr. Speaker: It comes to the same hon. Members have to say and then thing. The objection is that the scope coolly consider. There is no use goijig of the Bill is being extended now—^that on presuppositions. After all it is a IS the point of objection. Personally, matter which affects vitally large I my^eK was feeling doubtful about the sections of people. The question is admissibility of certain amendments whether it otfends against the provi which are now proposed and which sions of the Constitution, appar^tly seek to extend the scope of the Bill, but I have not come to any Shri J. R. Kapoor: Before you are conclusion. I should first hear Mem- .bers and then decide at the end as to pleased to give a ruling on this ques whether I should jput the amendments tion as to whether these amendments to vote or not are or not in order may I request you to give us an opportunity to speak on that particular point, because so far Dr. P. S. Deshmukfa: It is quite open none of us have expressed ourselves to the House to extend or limit the about the admissibility of these scope of any legislation. So long as amendments? any particular clause is not passed by the House, it is completely at liberty to Mr. Speaker: I think I shall give do that. Supposing the original Bill them an opportunity. But first of all says that the Code will apply to the I want to hear what they really mean whole of India and the House proposes and whether they are trying to extend an amendment by which it excludes the scope of the Bill I shall give certain States of vice versa? I feel cer them a hearing. ‘ tain the House is quite competent to do so, Shri JhoBjhimwala: I was pointing out to the House that if a particular Mr. Speaker: The extension of the kind of legislation is one of reform or Act to the whole of India and then is in the interests of public good, then limiting it to a part of India would this Parliament will not be partial in not be an extension of the principle enacting such a kind of legislation. of the Act. The principle of the Act is something of substantive law, which extends not territorially but in other [P a n d it T h a k u r D a s B h a r g a v a in respects. It is perfectly competent, the Chair.] prima facie, to say that it shall not apply to Sikhs, Jains or Buddhists; When a particular kind of legisla but the point is whether it is comoe- tion is being enacted for the welfare tent now to say that it shall apply^to of the people why should it be res Christians, Muslims, Parsis and Jews. tricted whoUy to a certain class of persons and why should it not be Shri Syamnandan Sahaya: There extended to all? If it is good, it is are two submissions I wish to make. good; if it is bad, it is bad. Axid if it is bad why should we apply it to Before you give a ruling I would the Hindus? Why should we thrust request you to give us a little chance. it upon the Hindus? Why should they not be left free to practise their own Mr. Speaker: I shall give Members religion and act according to their every chance. o ^ ancient ideas? It is said that this Bill is being enacted because the 4 P.M. present system of marriage and other things are not in the interest of Khwaja Iiiait UUah (Bihar) f Are society, that they are spoiling society these amendments which are being and that this particular kind of legis moved directed to bring in Muslims lation is good for the society. If a also within tJie scope of the Hindu- particular kind of legislation, may be Code and directed against our Funda regarding marriage, may be regarding mental Rights under article 25 of the inheritance may be regarding any Constitution? thing, I do not want to go into those details which I shall do when Mr. Sp^ker: That does not arise. the particular clauses come— but if, It is a part of the v/ider question as I have said, particular things again as to whether the Code itself are good for certain persons. I goes against the spirit of the Constitu would like to have the reasons from tion my hon. friend Dr. Ambedkar who is described as Mahu of modem age as Khwaja Inait UUs^: It is clear... to why the particular piece of legisla tion is bad for Muslims, because he is Mr. Speaker: It may be clear to the excluding them, he is purposely hon. Member, but it is not so clear to excluding them by saying that th ir me. Therefore, let us hear what the Code shall not apply to Muslims. I 2408 Hindu Code 5 FEBRyARY 1951 Hindu Code 2409 would like to know why it should not not, then the next amendment which apply to everybody and why it should I have submitted to cure this should apply only to Hindus. If it is good be accepted in preference to this. it should apply to you, me and every Nothing wiU be lost but everything body. And secondly, as I said, if it is a will be gained in decorum and official bad law, why should it be thrust upon form. Sir, I ask you to give a ruling a particular class of persons? Last^ on this point. ly, when the question comes up whe ther these amendments are admis Mr. Chairman: I am not impressed sible or not, just as my friend Mr. Jas- by the speech of the hon. Member in pat Roy Kapoor has said, I would re regard to the facts to conclude that quest that we should be given an any point of order regarding my ruling opportunity to explain our position. has been made out. He was making certain observations to which the hon. Dr. Ambedkar will in time reply. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: Sir, as Therefore, there is no point for ruling. reg.ards the amendment moved by the hon. Dr. Ambedkar, I raised at that Shri Nazirnddin Ahmad: The two time a point of order! I should first other amendments which I suggested of all try to explain my point of depended upon the rejection of the order, because the other amendments form or otherwise of the amendments. depend upon that point of order. That is why I want a ruling from you. You will be pleased to notice that If it is in good form, of course, we this arAendment is drafted in a lan shall also indulge in such forms and guage which is highly insulting to the the House can also be allowed to House. It says “ In clause 2, in sub degenerate to that sort of form. clause (1), in item (a), for ‘Hindus, Then with regard to clause 2, one that is to say, to all persons profess important point has been raised by ing the Hindu religion’ substitute the several amendments and supported ‘persons who are Hindus’ ” and so on by several hon. Members. It is that and so forth. In the next item, the the Code should be made applicable wording is “ substitute” something. to all persons in India. I was asked In part (2) it is again “ omit” some to sponsor this idea and when I raised thing. This is expressed in the im the point of order I did nothing of the perative form. As Dr. Pattabhi on sort at all. but my point is that the one occasion said, Dr. Ambedkar Bill is bad for the Hindus and when it speaks in a professorial and dictatorial is bad, this bad law should not be tone. This amendment is couched in made applicable to aU- A bad law that language.. Not merely this, but can not be made good by making it all the amendments. I have examin applicable to all. If it is bad ed one and all of them. They are in the for the Hindus, it should be rejected. form of correction slips, or oraers by The point I was driving at was...... a superior officer of Government to his subordinates. So this is really a Shri J. B. Kapoor: The fate should direction to the House to do this and be shared equally by all the Hindus that, imperatively. The usual form and non-Hindus alike. is that “ for such and such thing the Shri Nazirnddin Ahmad: That is a following shall be substituted” or that form of logic which amounts to a joke “the following shall be omitted” . and is certainly acceptable but seri That is the form. I submit that the ously in a legislature this cannot be drafting has been done so carelessly accented. If a law is bad, it should and so much in the official style that not be extended to put pressure on they cannot be accepted as setting a those on whom it is going to be new standard of courtesy to the apnlied. Constitutionally this law will House. All the amendments are bring degradation. This point has been couched in that language. I seriously seriously raised outside the House; it ask the House to consider whether has been freely talked about and it this method of wording the amend is more than certain that this law could ^ ments will be acceptable at all. I not be taken before a court of law. therefore like in some of the amend We have nassed several principles in ments to cure this imperious form. the Constitution. We have worded I have suggested the usual form. And the clauses in the Constitution in a it is not merely the usual form in this general way with the result that they House but in the previous House and have landed us already into difficul in all other legislative bodies. The ties. The Constitution stands in the question is whether we should permit way of this Bill being passed. the ^ setting up of a new standard Shri Tyagi: We will change the , entirely its own. You will be pleased Constitution. to examine all the amendments and they are all couched like this. The Shri Naziruddin Alimad: My learned point of order which I submit is friend says if the Constituti [Shri Naziruddin Ahmad] Mr. Chairman: I was waiting to hear the last words of his concluding re drafted and has landed us into diflfi- marks to know the inference he pro culties, why not change the Constitu posed to draw from his preceding tion. I ask why should it be that you observations. are at liberty to pass a law for the Hindus? Why should there be a t policy of distinction followed between Shri Tyagi: I want to know how is Hindus and Muslims in their own it that a Muslim is quoting our demestic sphere? I think it is not scriptures. logic. It is not good. The Hindus # should remain Hindus at home and Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: We should they should be Hindus in their reli not think of this Code but we should gious practices. Similarly the think of more and more constructive Christians and Muslims should have things which would make the people their freedom of thought, worship and happy, give them elementary educa religion which has been granted in tion etc. In these dangerous times, another part of the Constitution. I there is the other danger of the world ask the House to consider whether in situation deteriorating. War is view of the number of defects noticed approaching India step by step. in the Constitution, it requires revi sion. I think it is easier within two IVtr. Chairman: I am very sorry, I years of the passing of the Constitution do not want to interfere but I think to amend it than it would be after the hon. Merhber is at sea on his two years. So it is time for us to arguments. He ought to proceed with amend the Constitution to make it his amendments. possible to pass a good law affecting the Hindus. So far aS religious and, semi-religious matters are concerned Shri Naziniddin Alunad: I was only" the law could not interfere and at submitting that this is not the proper least it should not be dictated from time to go on with this Bill. the top. This is a kind of dictatorship which, does persist in democratic Shri Kharshed Lai: We are not dis society. . cussing the consideration motion. Shri Tyagi: Marriage and divorce do Mr. Chairman: I will ask the hon. not come under religion. Member to speak on his amendments. If he wants to say that so far as tiie Shri Naziniddin Ahmad; I believe particular amendments of Dr. Ambed- the Hindu marriage is one of the kar are concerned, they are not right, ScLmskaras; it is the tenth Snmslcara: I would certainly allow that but if he it is part of their religion and it is goes on to say that this Bill should not idle to argue that it is not part of be proceeded with, I think it is beyond their religion. I say you may abolish the province of any hon. Member at religion and the law gives you freedom this stage to say so. and this House is a sovereign House within the Constitution. You can abolish religion, if you like but will' Shri Naziniddin Ahmad: I was you go so far as that? So far as this encouraged to make this suggestion is concerned. I do not want to pur only for one reason that it is under sue it further but then look at the stood that Government has decided to condition in which we exist today.' proceed with this Bill only for two We have no food. We had to spend or three days...... Rs. 200 crores for importing food from foreicrn countries and to make us live Mr. Chairman: I would ask the hon. for this vear, (InteTrvvticm). We Member to proceed with his amend nave no clothes. There are no shel ments. . ters for many of our countrymen; we cgriPot give primary education at all Shri Naziniddin Ahmad: (Interrup but what we give is a free cift to the tion) I rather think that many hon. Hindus in the shane of the Hindu Members have nothing to think of Code. If you want to make them except interrupting. Sir, there are a hanov. voti must give them food, give number of amendments standing to them education. my credit and I shall deal with them one by one. The first two amend The Denntv Minister of Oommnni- ments, Nos. 16 and 17, were suggested catkms (Shri Khnrslied Lai): This to improve the form in which Dr. might have been a very good argu Ambedkar’s motion has been tabled. ment on the motion for taking the Bill They do not deal with any other prin into <:onsideration. W f are now con- ciple except improving the form. gidering a gp^cific clause. Then, I come to am^dm^nt No, 19. 2412 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 2413 In part (c)(i) of sub-clause (1) of Shri Naziraddin Ahmad: My amend clause 2, after “illegitimate” insert; ment says, “ if he has attained the age of eighteen years, is himself a Hindu... “who, if he iias attained the age That is to say, after attaining the of eighteen years, is himself a age of eighteen years, when he attains Hindu and” the age of discretion and is permitted by law to act in a legal manner, if he I am sorry that a very large num remains a Hindu, then, of course, he ber of widely divergent subjects have is a Hindu. He is a child of his father had to be moved separately, and have entitled to inherit and enjoy all the to b e ’ argued upon in n lot. That is benefits of the Hindu Law. This why some hon. Members seem to lose amendment tries to remove a lacima ^ thread of the argument. Sub-clause which exists in the drafting. An ille (1) which I seek to amend, reads thus: gitimate child, if he attains the age “This Code applies— of eighteen years and if he does not change his religion, then, of cdurse, (c)(i) to any child legitimate he could come in. That is what I or illegitimate, both of have sought to clarify here. whose parents are Hindus within the meaning of Let us come to another amendment; this section.” it is of a drafting nature. It reads as follows: , Shri Satish Chandra (Uttar Pra desh); This has been read several In part (c)(i) of sub-clause (1) of times. clause 2, for “whose parents are Hindus” substitute “ whose parents are Mr. Chairman: Let the hon. Member or have been Hindus”. proceed. To keep up thfe thread of the argument, he must be allowed to It may be that the parents of a child read. are Hindus; but they may change their religion. So, I want that in order to Shri Tyagi: This thing about illegi have this relationship ...... timate child was not read. Shri K. C. Sharma (Uttar Pradesh): May I draw the attention^ of the Shri Naziroddln Alimad: The chUd Chairman to the convention of the of a Hindu, particularly, if he be ille House that all drafting amendments gitimate, may not himself remain a be left to the (Raftsmen and the tin. Hindu. This sub-clause proceeds on of the House be not wasted? the supposition that a child of a Hindu remains a Hindu. But, it is quite Mr. Chairman: There is no such possible for him to change his reli absolute convention; it all depends on gion. He may discard all religion; he the particular amendment. may be an atheist. He may become a Jew, a Christian or a Muslim, and Shri Naziraddin Ahmad: This only then again be re-converted to Hin shows that the hon. Member is not duism. The supposition that an ille listening to the arguments, but is only gitimate child of a Hindu is a Hindu trying to find and create objections. presupposes that he does not change. Although this is more of a drafting As a matter of fact, he can change. nature, I think it involves a substan If he changes his religion, certainly, tial thing. The question is this. You he cannot be a Hindu, and cannot say that a child, legitimate or illegi inherit his father’s property and so timate of a Hindu, is a Hindu. Sup^ forth. An illegitimate child of a posing the father changes his religion Hindu father will inherit his father's in that case, he is not a Hindu at tha properties; but if he changes his reli relevant time when the question gion, he ceases to be a Hindu and arises. I therefore want to make it therefore, he ceases to be the heir. clear that he is a Hindu or has been a Hindu. It may be that a father was Shri Tyagi: A father can never have not a Hindu, but has accepted the an illegitimate child; a mother only Hindu religion at the relevant time. can have. If you say, a man who is a Hindu, it means, who is a Hindu for the time Shri Nazlniddin Ahmad: That is a being; he might not have been a Hindu legal question. If a father cannot before. That is why I am saying: “ a have an illegitimate child, this clause person who is or has been a Hindu”; should have been deleted. who has been a Hindu all along. The child of such a parent would be a Shri Tyagi: The child is...... Hindu. Suppose there is a Muslim {Interruption). who adopts the Hindu r^ io n today. The question of the status of his child Mr. Chairman: Order, order; let him comes into question. Could his child, proceed. who was bom at a time when the 2414 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 195i Hindu Code 2415 [Shri Naziruddin Ahmad] what about his rights and liabilities parents were Muslims," be a Hindu before conversion? There are numer today because today the father is a ous rights and liabilities. I do not Hindu? That is why I have tried to wish to detain the House by detailing change the clause. Though it is of a the various considerations which may drsifting nature, it has substantial arise on account of this. I simply put effects. I submit that these small it generally that a convert should be points require careful consideration. a Hindu, subject to all the rights and The question, in effect, is, if a man is liabilities he had before the conver converted to Hinduism today, whether sion. Suppose there was a non-Hindu his child, who may be a Christian, or possessing rich property, and suppose a Muslim or a Jew according to the he is converted to Hinduism. Should religion of his father before his con you ask him to lose all his property? version, would be a Hindu. This is a If he is to inherit from some one, serious constitutional question, and I before conversion, should he lose this hope the House will seriously consider inheritance after his conversion? that. But, the difficulty would be for There are laws relevant to this which the hon. Law Minister to caretully occur to me, but I only submit that listen to these points and to reply to we should preserve all the rights and them, and for the House to follow all liabilities acquired by the man who these arguments and replies. As a is converted, before his conversion. matter of fact, Dr. Ambedkar will say, The status quo of the rights previously “ I oppose all the amendnments” and acquired should not be disturbed. All the House will say, “We respectfully those rights should not be lost simply agree” . by the conversion. Rights once acquired should not be allowed to Several Hon. Members: Never, be lost. Liabilities incurred should never. not be allowed to vanish, all because of a later conversion. The conversion Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: My next should not affect past transactions, r amendment, No. 21, I would repeat my past rights and past liabilities. argument, enforces a condition that a man, whose religion is in question, is Then, my next amendment is that a Hindu if he is a Hindu after attain sub-clause ( 2) of clause 2 should be ing the age of eighteen years; because omitted. This sub-clause is to this at the age of eighteen, he is entitled effect: to act in a legal manner, and if he has attained the age of eighteen years, he “This Code also applies to any may change his religion. Therefore, other person, who is not a Muslim, the option of a boy, on attaining the Christian, Parsi or Jew by reli-, age of eighteen years, to change his gion.” religion, is provided for. That contin gency has not been thought of by the This sub-clause, I submit, is based draftsmen. Therefore, I am submit on erroneous considerations, and on ting this amendment for the considera erroneous analogies. In part (a) we tion of the House. have said that this Code applies: I now come to my next amendment “ to all Hindus, that is to say, No. 23. It runs thus: to all persons professing the Hindu religion in any of its forms or For part (d) of sub-clause (1) of developments, clause 2, substitute: “(d) to a convert to the Hindu And we also say that it applies: religion, subject to his rights and liabilities before his conversion.” “ to any person who is a Bud dhist, Jaina or Sikh by religion.” You say that a convert to a Hindu religion would be a Hindu. It is plain But the Sikhs, I feel, do not very commonsense that a man has freedom much appreciate the conferring of the of conscience and religion and he so-caUed benefits of this Code on would be fully entitled to convert them. My friend Sardar Hukam himself to Hinduism. But, what Singh is ready to give up the so-called happens to his rights and liabilities benefits of the Hindu Code now being before he is converted? I will explain conferred upon the Sikhs. So long as the position. A Christian, a married he remains a Sikh, I do not think he man, is converted today to the Hindu would very much appreciate the Hindu religion. What happens to his wife? Code being applied to him and ...... Would the wife be automatically divorced because she is not a Hindu? Shri Tyagi: He can become a Hindu. A marriage between a Hindu and a Christian would be illegal. I agree Shri Nazimddin Ahmad: But let that a convert to the Hindu religion Sardar Hukam Singh speak for his should be treated as a Hindu. But, own community. I am only...... 2416 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 241^ • Shri Khurshed Lai: Yes, you are expect many such persons in India. speaking for yours. And suppose one such foreigner dies while in India. Who will inherit his Shri Naziniddin Ahmad: Then we wealth? come to part (c )(i) which says that the Code applies to any child, legiti mate or illegitimate etc. A Hindu is Dr. Ambedkar: You will inherit his a Hindu and the child of a Hindu wealth if he dies in India. should also be a Hindu. But what I say is this. Sub-clause ( 2) seems to be somewhat misplaced, because it Shri Nazirnddin Ahmad: The ques states that the Code applies also to tion is, are those persons who do not any other person who is not a Muslim, belong to any of those religions to Christian, Parsi or Jew by religion. be the victims upon whom the so- Looking at it from the drafting point called benefits of this Hindu Code of view, this is a circuitous way of should be forced? The Hindu com drafting the thing, and it shows the munity is docile and in an absolute piece-meal introduction of an idea. If minority in the House, but outside this is the idea, why not say stra^ht- there is a great deal of objection rais away that all persons who are not ed, and that being the case, should Muslims, Christians, Parsis or Jews these so-called benefits be forced on are Hindus? Instead of doing that, all? Should you force the Code upon you first of all say that Hindus are aU the persons who are neither first of all Hindus. Then you say that Muslims, Christians, Parsis or Jews, Buddhifits, Jains and Sikhs are Hindus and because they do not belong to any and then you say that the Code will of these religions, does it necessarily apply to other persons who are not follow that they belong to the Hindu Muslims, Christians, Parsis or Jews. religion? Should the Code be applied I think the most straightforward and to them? That is the question which logical way of putting this definition the House will have to answer. I sub would have been to say that all per mit that this sub-clause ( 2) must be sons who are not Muslims, Christians, omitted because it seeks to enact a Parsis or Jews are Hindus. It comes proposition which should not be to that. Therefore, I submit, at that accepted. Let us proceed gradually. time, there might have been some You must not force the Code upon hesitation in the mind of the drafts such persons. There may be some men and this idea was introduced at who follow some other religion or who a later stage. Otherwise there was. have no religion at all, or a new reli nothing to prevent them from saying gion may come into the world and to what they actually meant. them the law should not ^ made applicable. The application of the But there is a snag in this clause 2, law should be gradual. The impact sub-clause (2). Does it necessarily of this tremendous measure should be follow that a man who is not a Muslim, gradual. In fact I was very much Christian, Parsi or Jew is a Hindu? enamoured with part of the amend He may be a Communist, as is sug ment moved by my hon. friend Mr. gested by a friend here. Or he may Kapoor. There was a great deal of belong to the religion of Shintoism as sense in that part of the amendment professed in Japan. Or he may have which said that the Code should apply no religion at all- How can it be only to those persons who want it. accepted as an inexorable principle That was also the purport of the that a man must be a Christian, Parsi, amendment of Shri Jhunjhunwala. Of Muslim, Jew or a Hindu? There may course there were some differences be a person who belongs to no reli with regard to detail. But the impor gion, br there may be a person whose tant principle is that the Code should religion is apart from any of these apply only to those who want it to be great religions. applied to them. Therefore this defi nition of a Hindu is not warranted. Shri Tyagi: Hinduism is a cocktail If the Hindu Code was not a contro of all religions. versial one and had been an acceptable one to all there would have been no Shri Nazirnddin Ahmad: Of course, difficulty. So by accepting that part to say that all the rest belong to the o flh e amendment...... Hindu religion may sound very sweet to Hindu ears. But the question is whether we should force the so-called Pandit Krishna Chandra Sharma benefits of this Code on anybody? (Uttar Pradesh): It means that every Should we call anyone a Hindu and body should be allowed to make a law force the Code on him? That is the for himself. point. Suppose there are some foreig ners here, or their servants or sub Shri Nazirnddin Ahmad: You are ordinates or friends. We are en trying to force down the throat of a couraging tourist traffic and we can person a medicine which he does not 241& Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 2419 fShri Naziruddin Ahmad] Shri Khurshed Lai: That is why it like. However good the Code may be is not being’ applied to you. you cannot force it down the throat of the Hindu community. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: 1 agree that I am too backward to appreciate An Hon. Member: Who says that? the benefits of this law. This law is We all want it. a jumble. It does not contain much Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: First of all of the Hindu law. It is borrowed you must take public opinion on your from the Muslim law, from the Chris side. You must approach them gra tian. law and borrowed all the worst dually. Make it first optional and elements of those laws. Therefore I then if the law is good for everybody would prefer to be called a backward they will gravitate towards it. The> man so as to please my hon. friend will themselves push each other and Mr. Kurshed Lai rather than be look compete with each other in getting ed upon as civilised and be made to themselves registered earliest. The accept a law which is not applicable law should attract people voluntarily to me and which does not appeal to and not by force. That is the great me either. The great difficulty is that principle which underlies these amend the Government is committed to a ments and suggestions. It is not a principle rather prematurely and the case of everybody making a law for people outside are against it ...... himself but a case of a few persons forcing a law upon 33 crores of Shri Bharati: Who are you to say people...... that? Who said that? • An Hon. Member: Who are you to Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: Just go say that? out and see. If you had gone to the Gandhi Grounds yesterday you would Shri Syamnandan Sahaya: That is have seen something of that. also lately the correct position. Go ahead. Let them shout at the top of An^Hon. Member: Why did my hon. their voice. friend go there? Mr. Chairman: Hon, Members should not go on speaking to each other while Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: It is my sitting. It will create confusion. Let business to be informed: not to sug gest an3^hing to them, not to control, the hon. Member proceed. guide nor mislead them. It is for me Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: That is as a Member to ascertain public why I heartily support the suggestion opmion. If I know that Hindu to make the application of the Code opinion moves in a particular way, voluntary thereby robbing it of its even at the risk of being called back sting. Then I dare say that if the law ward I would bring it to the notice is good gradually every one will come of the House. There is no point in to it. I therefore submit that the law trying to be fashionable and clever at should be made applicable to those the cost of commonsense and equity. who are fit for it. Some hon. Members asked me in an India is a vast sub-continent where oblique manner “Who says so?”. They there are highly advanced people as think that the Hindu community has also extremely backward people. The accepted the Code and are agreeable law is a good law to hon. Members to it. I come from Bengal. At the because it is good to the community request of the Government of their from which most of the Members opinion they said that they were come. It is an advanced law suited opposed to it...... to the advanced community from which hon. Members come. But why Shrimati Renuka Ray (West Ben should it be made applicable to hill gal): What have they said now? tribes, aboriginals and backward people who have no education and Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: If they are who do not even have two meals a changing, I do not know about that. day. Why should it be made appli cable to them by a stroke of the pen Shrimati Durgabai: You too must against their wishes? That is the change along with them. point which arises out of the sugges tions contained in these two amend Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: I do not ments. It is experience and not logic think they have expressed any recent that should guide law. I therefore opinion. Apart from rumours their submit that tne law should be made legal opinion duly approved by the applicable to those who accept it and Government has been sent by their those who. are fit for it. Gradually Judicial Secretary and it has been those who are semi-fit for it will circulated to us. Any other opinion qualify for it...... has not been circulated to us. If they 2420 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 2421 have been circulated to »the private Sardar Hnkam Singh: It was an ears of any Members I cannot take answer to the interruption on his any notice of it here. The Govern statement that Hindus did not want ment of Bengal is against the Bill. it. .. The big people are against it. Mr. Chairman: Order, order. So Shri Sondhi (Punjab): They have far the observations of the hon. Mem compromised, I am told. ber were relevant under amendment No. 31. But at the same time I would Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: I do not request him not to be very general in think they have put themselves in a his remarks. He ought to confine his compromising position at all. Go to observations to the particular points any Bar Association and listen to what made out by him in his amendment. they talk. They are getting tired of it. The very eagerness with which the Bill is sought to be pushed through Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: The point the House...... before us is whether the law should be made applicable to . persons who do not agree to be bound by it. If you An Hon. Member: Is it all relevant do not give the option you will be to the amendment? forcing the law upon people who do Mr. Chairman: I would draw atten not want it. That is why I thought tion to amendment No. 31. that in order to strei^hen that point the objection of eminent authorities It is quite relevant. like High Court Judges and the Gov ernment of Bengal was relevant. It Shrimati Durgabai: He is only re shows that the people are against it— peating himself. not the backward people but intelli gent, civilised people who have some Shri Tyagi: Since the hon. Member status in society. That was my pur has alleged that the Bengal Govern pose in referring to it. ment was against this Hindu Code I want to know from him if the Chief Secretary of the Bengal Government I therefore submit that in view of is opposed to it? all these objections, the law should be made applicable to those who are Shri Khnrshed Lai: He is not the particulariy enamoured of it, who Government of Bengal. think they will be benefited by it but it .should not be made Shri Naalruddin Ahmad: The Gov- applicable to one and all, to emmwit of India circulated the Bill those who do not v/ant it. I and asked for opinion. The various submit that those who are opposed to State Governments gave their opinion the Hindu Code Bill are a minority in and those opinions have been circulat the House, but those who are in favour ed to us. I have no private commu of the Bill are a microscopic minority nication with the Bengal Government. in the country. The whole question The public opinions which have been is: is it enough for you to be fired circulated to us are there, any hon with the idea that the Hindu Code is Member can see them. There you wiH n crood thing if the people do not want find that the Bengal Government it? In a democratic society you must opposes the BiU. not force a benefit upon those who do not want it. The people do not want Pandit Malaviya (Uttar Pradesh): it. Therefore, you must not force this Why should they see if it is not con upon them. I therefore heartily venient to them? support the two suggestions made by the two hon. Members that the law Shri Nazimddin Ahmad: They find should be made applicable first to that the law is not convenient to those who want it. Then if we find Bengal soil. What is more, all the that there is ready acceptance, that it Judges of the Calcutta High Court,— is palatable to the Hindus, that thev I suppose they should be regarded as want it that they readily accept it, educated people, not ortho.dox, not the then this Parliament may later on rabble, they are fine, cultured, intelli extend it to other neople or to other gent men, they are not mere orthodox classes of neople. That should be the men—gave their opinion jointly that proper way. As has been suggested, they are opposed to the Bill. ’■f once we accept this princiole, make its application voluntary, the whole S)iri Raj Bahadur: May I know. Sir. controversy will vanish. The bitter whether it is permissible for the Mem ness of the majority outside and the ber to attack the very foundation and minority in this House di.sapnear principle of the Bill now? Is ho at once. Then there will be no ques speaking on clause 2 or on the whole tion of a difference of opinion. If it Bill? is- good it is good for the highest class 2422 Hindu Code 5 FEBRUARY 1951 Hindu Code 2423 [Shri Naziruddin Ahmad] Hindu if this Code appUes to him. at society. It is not good to the con You should be more straightforward, dition of people who belong to the more logical, more clear in 'your ex pression. The draftsmanship of this middle classes and to the lower clause shows the hand of many a per classes. It is for this reason that I son but it has not been properly think that the suggestion in that drafted. That is why there has been amendment should be accepted. so much. of confusion, so much of Then, one of my amendments is that round-about expression. I therefore sub-clause (3) should be omitted. That submit that sub-clause ( 3) should be sub-clause runs to the effect that: omitted. A Hindu should be a Hindu, one who follows the Hindu religion. “The expression “Hindu” in any With regard to Buddhists, Jainas and portion of this Code shall be con Sikhs, I should quite agree to them strued as if it included a person being included provided the Bud who, though not a Hindu by reli dhists, Jainas and Sikhs agree to be gion is, nevertheless, governed by bound by the Hindu Code. Those the provisions of this Code.” persons also are Hindus who are not Muslim, Christian, Parsi or Jew by It says in effect that though a man religion. But you say that a person is not a Hindu, if the Code applies to is a Hindu, though he is not a Hindu, him he is a Hindu. It begs the very if he is bound by this Code. Some question. It could have been said a how or other that is a most unsatis Hindu is a Hindu! The draftsman factory way of approach. was not satisfied and he tried to make confusing words confounded by the Shri Tyagi: He is a de jure if not a addition of sub-clause (3). To whom de facto Hindu. would you make the Code applicable? If you say a man is a man who is a 5 P.M, human being it does not help anyone. It simply shows some confusion of Shri Nkziruddin Ahmad: If you want mind. You cannot say that a Hindu to call a person a “Hindu”, I have no is not a Hindu but that although he objection. That is a simple way. You is not a Hindu provided the Code simply enumerate him as “Hindu”. applies to him he is a Hindu. I think Why this circumlocutory, round-about a simpler way of approach should and circuitous way of expressing it? have been far more satisfactory and It shows, I say with respect, some better. If you say aU persons having confusion of thought. two legs and two hands are Hindus I have no objection. If you say all Dr. Ambedkar: You are more con Hindus are Hindus even that would founded than anybody else in this have made some sense. You say, all House, I am afraid. Hindus are Hindus, all Jainas, Bud dhists, and Sikhs are Hindus, the ille Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: I have gitimate children of those are Hindus, other amendments which I shall try and then all those are Hindus who are to deal with tomorrow, if I am not not Muslims, Christians, Parsis or interrupted like this. Jews, You are not satisfied with this round-about and circumlocutory way The House then adjourned till a of expression. You say that even Quarter to Eleven of the Clock on though a man is not a Hmdu he is a Tuesday, the 6th Fehruary, 1951.