<<

TH E

TRANSLATED BY W. HAMILTON

THE PENGUIN CLASSICS 'rHB PBNCUIN CLASSICS

EDITED BY B. V. RIEU

LZ4 THIE SYMPOSIUM

BY PLATO •

TRANSLATED BY W. HAMILTON

PENGUIN BOOKS CONTENTS

1 INTRODUCTION 9 THE SYMPOSIUM 33

NOTES IIS

1

1 QUESTIONS PLATO: SYMPOSIUM will see that these people must inevitably possess these 'Quite clearly, it means love of something.' qualities at the present moment, whether they like it or 'Take a firm grasp of this point, then,' said Socrates, not, and no one presumably would desire what is inevi­ 'remembering also, though you may keep it to yourself table. No, if a man says: "I, who am healthy, or who for the moment, what it is that Love is love of. And am rich, none the less desire to be healthy or rich, as the now just tell me this: Docs Love desire the thing that he case may be, and I desire the very qualities which I is love of, or not ?' possess," we should reply: "My friend, what you, who 'Of course he does.' are in possession of health and wealth and strength, 'And docs he desire and love the thing that he desires really wish, is to have the possession of these qualities and loves when he is in possession of it or when he is continued to you in the future, since at the present not?' moment you possess them whether you wish it or not." 'Probably when he is not.' Consider, then, whether when you say "I desire what I 'If you reflect for a moment, you will see that it isn't possess" you do not really mean "I wish that I may merely probable but absolutely certain that one desires continue to possess in the future the things which I what one lacks, or rather that one does not desire what possess now.'' If it were put to him like this, he would one does not lack. To me at any rate, Agathon, it seems agree, I think.' as certain as anything can be. What do you think?' 'Yes,' said Agathon. 'Yes, I think it is.' 'But this is to be in love with a thing which is not yet 'Good. Now would anybody wish to be big who was in one's power or possession, namely the continuance big, or strong who was strong?' and preservation of one's present blessings in the 'It follows from my previous admission that this is future.' impossible.' 'Certainly.' 'Because a man who possesses a quality cannot be in 'Such a man, then, and everyone else who feels need of it?' desire, desires what is not in his present power or pos­ 'Yes.' session, and desire and love have for their object things 'Suppose a man wanted to be strong who was strong, or qualities which a man does not at present possess but or swift-footed who was swift-footed. I labour the point which he lacks.' in order to avoid any possibility of mistake, for one 'Yes.' might perhaps suppose in these and all similar cases that 'Come then,' said Socrates, 'let us sum up the points I people who are of a certain character or who possess on which we have reached agreement. Arc they not certain qualities also desire the qualities which they first that Love exists only in relation to some object, possess. But if you consider the matter, Agathon, you 76 77 PLATO: SYMPOSIUM AGATHON REDUCED TO HELPLESSNESS and second that that object must be something of which coincides with what is beautiful, he also lacks good­ he is at present in want ?' ness.' 'Yes.' 'I can't find any way of \vithstanding you, Socrates. 'Now recall also what it was that you declared in Let it be as you say.' your speech to be the object of Love. I'll do it for you, 'Not at all, my dear Agathon. It is truth that you find if you like. You said, I think, that the troubles among it impossible to withstand; th(;)re is never the slightest the gods were composed by love of , for there difficulty in withstanding Socrates. could not be such a thing as love of ugliness. Wasn't 'But now I will leave you in peace, and try to give the that it?' account of Love which I once heard from a woman of 'Yes.' Mantinea, called Diotima. She had other accomplish­ 'Quite right, my dear friend, and if that is so, Love ments as well - once, before the plague, when the will be love of beauty, will he not, and not love of ugli­ Athenians had been sacrificing to avert it, she succeeded ness?' in postponing it for ten years- but what concerns us at Agathon agreed. present is that she was my instructress in the art of love. 'Now we have agreed that Love is in love with what I will try, taking the conclusions on which Agathon and he lacks and does not possess.' I reached agreement as my starting-point, to give the 'Yes.' best consecutive account I can of what she told me. As 'So after all Love lacks and does not possess beauty?' you were so careful to point out to us, Agathon, one ,, 'Inevitably.' must elucidate the ~entialnature and characteristics of 'Well then, would you call what lacks and in no way Love before describing his ~cts. The easiest thing possesses beauty beautiful?' will be to go through the same questions and answers as 'Certainly not.' she did with me. I had used very mucl1 the same lan­ 'Do you still think then that Love is beautiful, if this gq_age to her as Agathon used to me, and had said that is so?' Love is a great god and must be reckoned beautiful, but 'It looks, Socrates, as if I didn't know what I was sh~ employed against me the arguments by which I talking about when I said that.' demonstrated to Agathon that to my way of thinking 'Still, it was a beautiful speech, Agathon. But there Love is neither beautiful nor good. "What do you mean, is just one more small point. Do you think that what is Diotima ?" I said. "Is Love ugly and bad?" "Don't say good is the same as what is beautiful?' such things," she answered; "do you think that anything 'I do.' that is not beautiful is necessarily ugly?" "Of course I 'Then, if Love lacks beauty, and what is good do." "And thatanythingthatisnotwisdomisignorance? -? 78 79 /dV')'" I PLATO: SYMPOSIUM SOCRATES AND DIOTIMA Don't you know that there is a state of mind half-way being who has no share of the good and beautiful cannot between wisdom and ignorance ?" "\Vhat do you mean ?" be a god?" "Obviously not." "Very well then, you see "Having true convictions without being able to give that you are one of the people who believe that Love is \ reasons for them," she replied. "Surely you see that such not a god." a state of mind cannot be called understanding, because ' ''\Vhat can Love be then?" I said. "A mortal?" nothing irrational deserves the name; but it would be "Far from it." "\Veil, what ?"-"As in my previous ex­ equally wrong to call it ignorance; how can one call a amples, he is _half-way between mortal and immortal." state of mind ignorance which hits upon the truth? The "\Vhat sort of being is he then, Diotima ?""He is a great fact is that having true convictions is what I called it L.J-.~-1pirit, Socrates; everything that is ofthe nature of a spirit ' just now, a condition half-way between knowledge and '\ / is half-god and half-roan." "And what is the function of ignorance." "I grant you that," said I. "Then do not such a being?" "T~ interpret and convey messages to maintain that what is not beautiful is ugly, and what is the gods from men and to men from the gods, prayers not good is bad. Do not suppose that because, on your and sacrifices from the one, and commands and rewards own admission, Love is not good or beautiful, he must from the other. Being of an intermediate nature, a on that account be ugly and bad, but rather that he is spirit bridges the gap between them, and prevents the something between the two." "And yet," I said, "every­ universe from falling into two separate halves. Through body admits that he is a great god." "When you say this class of being come all divination and the super­ everybody, do you mean those who don't know him, natural skill of priests in sacrifices and rites and spells and :? D or do you include those who do?" "I mean absolutely every kind of magic and wizardry. God does not deal everybody." She burst out laughing, and said: "Well, directlY. with man; it is by means of spirits that all the Socrates, I don't see how he can be admitted to be a intercourse and communication of gods with men, both great god by those who say that he isn't even a god at in waking life and in sleep, is carried on. A man who all." ''Who are they?" I asked. ''You are one of them possesses skill in such matters is a spiritual man, whereas and I'm another." "What can you mean?" "It's per­ a man whose skill is confined to some trade or handi­ fectly easy; you'd say, wouldn't you, that all gods are craft is an earthly creature. Spirits are many in number happy and beautiful? You wouldn't dare to suggest that and of many kinds, and one of them is Love." any of the gods is not?" "Good heavens, no." "And by ' "\Vho are his parents?" I asked. "That is rather a happy you mean in secure enjoyment of what is good long story," she answered, "but I will tell you. On the and beautiful?" "Certainly." "But you have agreed that I day that was born the gods were feasting, it is because he lacks what is good and beautiful that among them Contrivance the son of Invention; and Love de3ires these very things." ''Yes, I have." "But a I after dinner, seeing that a was in progress, Poverty So 81 PLATO: SYMPOSIUM LOVE'S PARENTAGE came to beg and stood at the door. Now Contrivance such. Nor on the other hand do the ignorant love wis­ was drunk with nectar- wine, I may say, had not yet dom and desire to be wise, for the tiresome thing about been discovered- and went out into the garden of , ignorance is precisely this, that a man who possesses and was overcome by sleep. So Poverty, thinking to neither beauty nor goodness nor intelligence is perfectly alleviate her wretched condition by bearing a child to well satisfied with himself, and no one who does not not Contrivance, lay with him and conceived Love. Since believe that he lacks a thing desires what he does Love was begotten on Aphrodite's birthday, and since believe that he lacks." he has also an innate passion for the beautiful, and so for ' "Who then," I said, "are the lovers of wisdom, if the beauty of Aphrodite herself, he became her follower they are neither the wise nor the ignorant?" "A child the and servant. Again, having Contrivance for his father could answer that question. Obviously they are is a and Poverty for his mother, he bears the following intermediate class, of which Love among others character. He is always poor, and, far from being sensi­ member. Wisdom is one of the most beautiful of things, be tive and beautiful, as most people imagine, he is hard and Love is love of beauty, so itfollows that Love must and weather-beaten, shoeless and homeless, always a lover of wisdom, and consequently in a state half-way sleeping out for want of a bed, on the ground, on door­ between wisdom and ignorance. This too springs from and steps, and in the street. So far he takes after his mother the circumstances of his birth; his father was wise and and lives in want. But, being also his father's son, he fertile in expedients, his mother devoid of wisdom schemes to get for himself whatever is beautiful and helpless. So much for the nature of the spirit, my dear good; he is bold and forward and strenuous, always Socrates. As for your thinking as you did about Love, devising tricks like a cunning hutsman; he yearns after there is nothing remarkable in that; to judge by what knowledge and is full of resource and is a lover of wisdom you said, you identified Love with the beloved object all his life, a skilful magician, an alchemist, a true instead of with what feels love; that is why you thought object of love is . He is neither mortal nor immortal; but on one that Love is supremely beautiful. The and wortliy and the same day he will live and flourish (when things in all truth beautiful and delicate and perfect has a totally go well with him), and also meet his death; and then to be thought happy, but what feels love described." come to life again through the vigour that he inherits different character such as I have just from his father. What he wins he always loses, and is ' "Tell me then, my friend," I said, "for your words neither rich nor poor, neither wise nor ignorant. carry conviction, what function Love performs among what I ' "The truth of the matter is this. No god is a lover of men, if this is his nature." "That is precisely The nature and wisdom or desires to be wise, for he is wise already, and am going to try to teach you, Socrates. and he is also, the same is true of other wise persons, if there be any parentage of Love are as I have described, 82 83 PLATO: SYMPOSIUM LOVE IN ITS WIDEST SENSE according to you, love of beauty. But suppose we were employ different names for the other kinds of love." to be asked: 'In what does love of beauty consist, "Can you give me another example of such a usage?" Socrates and Diotima ?' or, to put it more ~. ''Yes, here is one. By its original meaning J?Oet!J means ( 'What is the aim of the love which is felt by the lover of simply creation, and creation, as you know, can take very beauty?' " "His aim is to attain possession of beautiful various forms. Any action which is the cause of a thing things," I answered. "But that merely raises a further emerging from non-existence into existence might be question. What will have been gained by the man who called poetry, and all the processes in all the crafts are is in possession- of beauty?" I said that I could supply no kinds of poetry, and all those who are engaged in them ready answer to this question. "\Vell," she said, "let poets." ''Yes." "But yet they are not called poets, but us change our terms and substitute good for beautiful. have other names, and out of the whole field of poetry Suppose someone asked you: 'Now, Socrates, what is or creation one part, which deals with music and metre, the aim of the love felt by the lover of the good ?' " is isolated and called by the name of the whole. This "Possession of the good," I replied. "And what will part alone is called poetry, and those whose province is ?. D have been gained by the man who is in possession of the this part of poetry are called poets." "Quite true." "It good?" "I find that an easier question to answer; he will is just the same with love. The generic concept em­ be happy." "Presumably because happiness consists in braces every desire for good and for happiness; that is the possession of the good, and once one has given that precisely what almighty and all-ensnaring love is. But answer, the inquiry is at an end; there is no need to ask this desire expresses itself in many ways, and those with the further question 'Why does a man desire to be whom it takes the form of love of money or of physical happy?' " "Quite so." prowess or of wisdom are not said to be in love or called ' "Now do you suppose that this desire and this love lovers, whereas those whose passion runs in one particu­ are characteristics common to all men, and that all per­ lar channel usurp the name of lover, which belongs to petually desire to be in possession of the good, or what?" them all, and are said to be lovers and in love." "There "That is exactly what I mean; they are common to all seems to be truth in what you say," I remarked. "There men." "\Vhy is it then, Socrates, if all men are always in is indeed a theory," she continued, "that lovers are love with the same thing, that we do not speak of all people who are in search of the other half of themselves, men as being in love, but say that some men are in love but according to my view of the matter, my friend, love I and others not ?" "I wonder what the reason can be." is not desire either of the half or of the whole, unless that "Then~'s no need to wonder; the truth is that we isolate half or whole happens to be good. Men are quite willing a particular kind of love and appropriate for it the name to have their feet or their hands amputated if they be- of love, which really belongs to a wider whole, while we lieve those parts of themselves to be diseased. The-Huth f.,..- 84 85 PLATO: SYMPOSIUM PROCREATION THE FUNCTION OF LOVE -is, I tl!,ink, t~ people are not attached to what particu­ in disharmony, and ugliness is out of harmony with larly belongs to them, except in so far as they can everything divine, whereas beauty is in harmony with identify what is good with what is their own, and what is it. That is why Beauty is the goddess who presides over bad with what is not their own. The only object of travail, and why, when a person in a state of pregnancy men's love is what is good. Don't you agree?" "Cer­ comes into contact with beauty, he has a feeling of tainly I do." "May we then say without qualification serenity and happy relaxative oJ..immor.tality as well as of th_e good." Socrates, are in a state of pregnancy, both spiritual and 'All this, then, I learnt on the various occasions on physical, and when they come to maturity they feel a which Diotima spoke to me on the subject of love. One natural desire to bring forth, but they can do so only in day she asked me: "What do you suppose, Socrates, to beauty and never in ugliness.27~ There is something be the cause of this love and this desire? Look at the divine about the whole matter; in pregnancy and bring­ behaviour of all animals, both beasts and birds. When­ ing to birth the mortal creature is endowed with a ever the desire to procreate seizes them, they fall a prey touch of immortality. But the process cannot take place to a violent love-sickness. Their first object is to achieve 86 87 PLATO: SYMPOSIUM IMMORTALITY SECURED BY LOVE union with one another, their second to provide for body, but his soul as well. No man's character, habits, their young; for these they are ready to fight however opinions, desires, pleasures, pains, and fears remain great the odds, and to die if need be, suffering starvation always the same; new ones come into existence and old themselves and making any other sacrifice in order to ones disappear. What happens with pieces of knowledge ;; tJ ~ secure the survival of their progeny. With men yon is even more remarkable; it is not merely that some might suppose such behaviour to be the result of rational appear and others disappear, so ~hatwe no more retain calculation, but what cause is to be ascribed for the our identity with regard to knowledge than with regard occurrence of such love among the beasts? Can you tell to the other things I have mentioned, but that each me?" I again confessed that I didn't know. "How can individual piece of knowledge is subject to the same you expect ever to become an expert on the subject of process as we are ourselves. \Vhen we use the word love, if you haven't any ideas about this?" "I told you recollection we imply by using it that knowledge de- before, Diotima, that this is precisely why I have come parts from us; forgetting is the departure of lmowledge, to you. I know that I need a teacher. So tell me the and recollection, by implanting a new impression in the cause of this and of all the other phenomena connected place of that which is lost, preserves it, and gives it a with love." spurious appearance of uninterrupted identity. It is in '"Well, if you believe that the natural object of love this way that everything_Etortal is preserved; not by is what we have more than once agreed that it is, the remaining for ever the same, which is the prerogative answer won't surprise you. The same argument holds of divinity, but by undergoing a process in which the good in the animal world as in the human, and~l losses caused by age are repaired by new acquisitions of a nature seeks, as far as may be, to perpetuate itself and similar kind. This device, Socrates, enables the mortal become immortal. The only way in which it can achieve to partake of immortafuy, physically as well as in other .:::=:::: this is by procreation, which secures the perpetual ways; but the immortal enjoys immortality after replacment of an old member of the race by a new. another manner. So do not feel surprise that every crea- Even during the period for which any living being is ture naturally cherishes its own progeny; it is in order said to live and to retain his identity - as a man, for to secure immortality that each individual is haunted by example, is called the same man from boyhood to old this eager desire and love." age - he does not in fact retain the same attributes, 'I was surprised at this account and said: "You may although he is called the same person; he is always be very wise, Diotima, but am I really to believe this r» b~ominga new being and undergoing a process of lo!s "Certainly you are," she replied in true professional and reparation, which affects his hair, his flesh, his style; "if you will only reflect you \vill see that the hones, his blood, and his whole body. And not only his ambition of men provides an example of the same truth. 88 89 love You

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SYMPOSIUM SYMPOSIUM

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.-93 .-93

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a

'"Thisaboveallothers,mydearSocrates,"thewoman

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PLATO:

people

continually

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SYMPOSIUM

from

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94

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.{

~ PLATO: SYMPOSIUM [ SPEECH OF 'Oh yes, I'll allow you to tell the truth; I'll even divine origin, of throwing men into a trance and thus invite you to do so.' distinguishing those who yearn to enter by initiation 'Very well then,' said Alcibiades. 'And here is what into union vvith the gods. But you, Socrates, are so far you can do. If I say anything untme, pull me up in the superior to Marsyas that you produce the same effect by middle of my speech, if you like, and tell me that I'm mere words without any instrument. At any rate, where­ lying. I certainly shan't do so intentionally. But don't be as we most of us pay little or no attention to the words of surprised if I get into a muddle in my reminiscences; it any other speaker, however accomplished, a speech by isn't easy for a man in my condition to sum up your ex­ you...,or even a very indifferent report of what you have traordinary character in a smooth and orderly sequence. said stirs us to the depths and casts a spell over us, men 'I propose to praise Socrates, gentlemen, by using and women and young lads alike. I myself, gentlemen, similes. He will perhaps think that I mean to make fun were it not that you would think me absolutely drunk, of him, but my object in employing them is truth, not would have stated on oath the effect which his words ridicule.) declare that he bears a strong resemblance to have had on me, an effect which persists to the present those figures of Silenus32 in statuaries' shops_,represented time. ·whenever I listen to him my heart beats faster holding pipes or flutes; they are hollow inside, and when than it I were in a religious frenzy, and tears nm down they are taken apart you see that they contain little my face, and I observe that numbers of other people have figures of gods. I declare also that he is like Marsyas the the same experience. ~othingof this kind eyer used to ,33 You can't deny yourself, Socrates, that you have happen to me when I listened to Pericles and other good a striking physical likeness to both of these, and you shall speakers; I recognized that they spoke well, but my hear in a moment how you resemble them in other soul was no.!_thrown into confusion and dismay by the respects. For one thing you're a bully, aren't you? I can thought that: my life was no better than a slave's. That is bring evidence of this if you don't admit it. But you the condition to 'vhich I have often been reduced by don't play the flute, you will say. No, indeed; the per­ our modern lVIarsyas, with the result thatJ.t seems im­ formance you give is far more remarkable. Marsyas possible to go on living in my present state. You can't needed an instrument in order to charm men by the say that this isn't true, Socrates. And even at this mo­ power which proceeded out of his mouth, a power which ment, I know quite well that, if I were prepared to give is still exercised by those who perform his melodies (I ear to him, I should not be able to.- hold out, but the reckon the tunes ascribed to Olympus to belong to same thing would happen again. He compels me to Marsyas, who taught him); his productions alone, realize that I am still a mass of imperfections and yet whether executed by a skilled male performer or by a persistently neglect my own true interests by engaging in wretched flute-girl, are capable, by reason of their public life. So against my real inclination I stop up my IOO IOI ~

Sirens

ears

shall an experience capable,

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PLATO:

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my

respects

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to

SYMPOSIUM

which

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But

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