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Robert Lustig and Fat Emperor - the Bottom Line on Processed Food Toxicity Find out More @ Ihda.Ie and Thefatemperor.Com

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Robert Lustig and Fat Emperor - the Bottom Line on Processed Food Toxicity Find out More @ Ihda.Ie and Thefatemperor.Com Robert Lustig and Fat Emperor - The Bottom Line on Processed Food Toxicity Find out more @ ihda.ie and TheFatEmperor.com Ivor Cummins 00:47 I'm here in the Royal College of general practitioners and I have a very special guest today who I'm honored and privileged to finally meet with. Dr. Robert Lustig, welcome. Robert Lustig 00:59 My pleasure. Thank you for having me, Ivor. Ivor 01:01 Not at all. Early in my research journey way back, I found pretty early on your bitter truth. It's now at 8 million views. Robert 01:08 So I'm told. Ivor 01:09 Yeah, I checked last night. And it was incredible. I was enthralled because it actually appeal to a mass audience, which is highly unusual for such a complex lecture. For someone like me who is biochemical background, it was... I watched it several times in a row. And I'll have to admit, I used your slides in my talks with engineers without getting permission. Robert 01:30 It's called the academic binge watch. Ivor 01:33 Oh, big time. Yeah. Big time. Robert 01:34 Yeah. I have no idea why anyone would watch a 90 minute lecture on carbohydrate biochemistry. So the fact that anyone watched it was surprising to me. Nevermind 8.2 million. I mean, that's just crazy. Ivor 01:49 It's crazy but it's crazy good. The passion actually was part of it, because most lectures in biochemistry obviously are “dry as sawdust”. The passion was enormous. The conviction. That was a big part, I think. Robert 02:02 Well, the thing is… look, I'm a practicing physician, and a scientist. You know, for every one patient I took care of and got better, 10 more would show at my door. There was no way I was ever going to fix this. And the thing that really, really bothered me was I learned virtually everything I know about nutrition in college, because I majored in Nutrition and Food Science at MIT. And then I went to medical school and they beat it out of me, and told me that everything I'd learned was irrelevant, had no place in patient care, and it wasn't Page 1 of 15 Robert Lustig and Fat Emperor - The Bottom Line on Processed Food Toxicity Find out more @ ihda.ie and TheFatEmperor.com necessary and that really all I had to do was focus on calories. I figured, well, these are the clinicians, you know, I'm going to be close, I better like listen to them. And so I practiced that way for like 20 years and then I started doing research because my patients weren't getting better. And I started doing research to try to figure out what's going on and it like all came rushing back to me, kind of like Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It's like, “Oh my God, I knew this stuff back in 1975.” So I got pissed off. 03:10 So I think part of the passion actually is sort of being dumbfounded, and the anger of what I see going on in medicine today. So, I'm glad it translates in a positive way and that people appreciate the passion. But I'm just, like really ticked off. Ivor 03:31 Yeah, and rightly so. And I know when I originally discovered in my own small way that my blood tests were way out of whack, and three doctors in succession couldn't give me any convincing feedback, when I actually discovered how it essentially worked. I was really angry too, because I thought of all the hundreds of millions of people who are suffering, whatever that may, and no one seems to know how it works even at a basic level. Which is crazy. 03:58 So one thing that occurs to me and a couple of people have wondered it too, so I'll ask it. That original video, and the fat chance was the bulk essentially around that. Years later now, is there anything in there that you would change, which are further research or possibly emphasize in different relative ways, do you think? Robert 04:18 Well, we have more data. If I rewrote it today, there'd be so much more that I could add, you know, in terms of fuel to the fire. There's nothing in the book that's wrong. So there's nothing I would retract. I would add certain things. And I've also recognized that the role of fiber, and there's a whole chapter on fiber, so it's not like I discounted it. But I've come to realize just how important the fiber story really is. Ultimately, I can sum up healthy eating in two clauses: protect the liver, feed the gut. If you protect the liver so that it's not getting the tsunami, a mono and disaccharides, that come from ultra- processed food, digestion and absorption early on in the duodenum, then you protect the liver. If you can move that food through the intestine, so that it doesn't get absorbed in the duodenum and gets further down to the jejunum so that the intestinal microbiome can chew it up. That means even though you ate it, you didn't get it. Since this is a macro nutrient Page 2 of 15 Robert Lustig and Fat Emperor - The Bottom Line on Processed Food Toxicity Find out more @ ihda.ie and TheFatEmperor.com excess problem, this chronic metabolic disease problem, if you can get your bacteria to chew it up instead of you, then it doesn't really matter what past here; it matters what past here, Right? It doesn't matter what you ate, it matters what you absorbed. So if you feed the gut, you solve the problem. Protect the liver, feed the gut. Real food does that. Processed food doesn't. Ivor 06:00 Yeah. I love the way you summarize that. And also, of course, when the bacteria take these foods that do pass down to the lower intestine, you know, they will make beneficial things. Robert 06:09 They make short chain fatty acids even more to the point. Because those are anti-inflammatory and anti-insulin, they suppress insulin. So yeah, short chain fatty acids have turned out to be an enormous help in terms of understanding the role of the microbiome. It was just an article in I forget, it was nature, on the role of short chain fatty acids and where they come from and how they work. And basically, you got to get the food down there in order to be able to get those bacteria to do it. And they actually use soluble fiber as their substrate for turning into short chain fatty acids. So again, I think there are a whole host of reasons why real food works. And there's a whole host of reasons why process who doesn't. And that is the crux of the problem. And the question is, how are we going to fix that especially when the food industry doesn't want to fix it? Ivor 07:02 Yeah, that is a killer. Now, I actually ended up in RTE, Ireland's primetime television in a debate last year with a professor of nutrition, who actually works with the ILSI, the International Life Sciences Institute and has published multiple papers, essentially attacking and undermining De Novo European body who are trying to simply categorized ultra processed foods so there is some guidance. Robert 07:31 Very aware. So there's a paper be coming out shortly about in the UK, looking at the various swaths of De Novo classification. So going from non processed all the way up to ultra processed. And basically 56% of the calories and 62% of the sugar in the UK diet is in that ultra processed food category. That is the goal. That is the target. That is the problem. That ultra processed food category. And the question is, what do you do about it? Because that's where the money gets made. And it's even worse than that. Because if you take those ultra processed foods, only 19% of the dollars you pay for pays for Page 3 of 15 Robert Lustig and Fat Emperor - The Bottom Line on Processed Food Toxicity Find out more @ ihda.ie and TheFatEmperor.com the food. 40% pays for the marketing, and the last of the 40%, that's their profit. Ivor 08:23 Wow, I actually didn't really have any of those figures. Now, I would have guessed it, not a mile off that because I know it's insane but it's great to hear those figures actually quoted. Shocking, really. And you're absolutely right, Robert, well you're obviously right, but the thing about the processed food industry, they need shelf life, they need to scale enormously across the world and they need dirt cheap ingredients and refined carbs, grains, seed oils… Robert 08:50 ... doesn't come any cheaper. Ivor 08:51 … it doesn't come any cheaper either. And also, the shelf life… Robert 08:55 It also doesn't come any more dangerous. Ivor 08:58 Yeah, absolutely. And actually, circling back what you were saying about a duodenum and that I had interviews recently with Gabor Erdoshi who's an extraordinary individual and hungry who does deep research, but he exposed me to all of the GIP in the upper intestine and the over exciting of that, versus proper foods that go down the intestine and excite GLP-1 and PYY gets satiety and all the benefits.
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