Road Races (Amendment) Bill 2010 Second Reading approved

6. Mr Callister to move:

That the Road Races (Amendment) Bill 2010 be now read a second time.

The President: We turn then, Hon. Members, to the Road Races (Amendment) Bill. Again, a Bill down for Second Reading and this time in the hands of Mr Callister, please.

Mr Callister: Thank you, Mr President. When I moved the First Reading, I perhaps may have taken the wrong approach for the reasons behind the Bill, because I was fairly brief and a bit clinical, perhaps. Maybe I should have begun by recognising the fact that one of the best racing cyclists in the world today represents the , , a sportsman whose achievements have been recognised worldwide and also of course, by the Isle of Man Government and Tynwald and by the Town Council, who are to give him the Freedom of the Borough and very much by the wider world as well. Mark Cavendish has brought a considerable amount of positive recognition for the Isle of Man in the past few years, matching probably anything the Government has been able to achieve and I think a lot of people here, certainly myself, were most pleased to hear television commentators refer to him as ‘the Manxman’ – you do not often hear that internationally. The point is the Isle of Man has many young gifted cyclists. There are young people today whose ambition certainly will be to emulate the achievements of Mark Cavendish and we need to give them the maximum encouragement and support and provide them with the right facilities and opportunities to achieve international success. So in that regard, I think we should also give credit where it is due to Dot Tilbury and her team (A Member: Hear, hear.) and the devotion that they have spent over many years training and encouraging our people to want to be racers and want to be winners. The Isle of Man, of course, has the ideal terrain, in which cyclists can train. I think probably all Hon. Members would agree with me that we should provide the wherewithal to enable our young people to become top level achievers. I take no pleasure, Mr President, in bringing forward a Bill for such events as the Soapbox Derby, but the advice the Department has received, after getting conflicting advice, in fact, the final advice is that, in order to run the Soapbox Derby, there needs to be legislation and you can argue as much as you like with our legislative draftsmen, but that was the final conclusion that was reached. Maybe the learned Attorney would like to make comment later. However, That is where we are, so we are told that we will need to have this legal cover for such events as the Soapbox Derby and not only that but other matters as well, and indeed for time trials. The first reason for creating the Bill, of course, was to permit road closures in Douglas in fact, and not on the TT course as I understand it, for the in September of this year. It was originally to be, and I think still is, for one specific Sunday for that event. Nevertheless, when legislative officers began to look at this Bill, they then widened it out to some other areas. That is the position that we are in. Of the comments that were made during the First Reading, Mr President, Mr Butt had a comment that as he thought it was primarily for the sports event in September that we could have a sunset clause for this. This has not been met well by the Department, for the very reasons I have explained earlier, that we need to do other events apart from the under this legislation. The Lord Bishop was not at all happy about the Bill in respect of church services and if the Lord Bishop wishes to bring an amendment forward to have some restriction on that – I have already discussed it with him – the Department would not have objection to what he is proposing. With regard to the time trials, and Mrs Christian referred that, the amendment would allow applications to be made to hold time trials on closed roads. However, the Department would restrict this to youth cycling events. (Interjections) I have referred to the sunset clause. Mr Lowey had a number of comments to make in which he was highly critical of the need for this legislation, and he did say that when he used to go running on a Sunday – I take it he does not very much do that now (Mr Lowey: Not any more.) – he used to see bunches of cyclists on the Tosaby Road (Mr Lowey: Absolutely.) getting ready for their time trials, (Mr Lowey: Yes.) and he felt what would happen now would be it would be illegal. (Mr Lowey: Yes.) Well, whether it is going to be entirely illegal is not clear, but certainly as far as the Sunday is concerned, we do need, I am informed, this legislation. Mr Downie supported this Bill at First Reading and quite forcefully, I think, in relation to some of the comments from other Members, but Mr President did have a comment to make about the mechanically propelled vehicle that he claims to be riding from time to time. It was defined in the United Kingdom Road

Legislative Council 08 Mar 2011 Traffic Act 1988 as a motor vehicle driven by petrol, oil, steam or electricity, a mechanically propelled vehicle. The UK Countryside Act 1968, referring to bridleways, said, and I quote:

‘Any member of the public shall have, as a right of way, the right to ride a bicycle [not being a mechanically propelled vehicle], on any bridleway…’

There are two pieces of UK legislation, and there is a third. In 2003, the UK definition of a pedal cycle was changed, and this was on the Pedal Bicycle (Safety) Regulations 2003, Statutory Instruments 2003, No. 1101, which stated:

‘…“bicycle” means a two-wheeled vehicle that is propelled solely by the muscular energy of a person on that vehicle by means of pedals and has not been constructed or adapted for propulsion by mechanical power;…’

Mr Downie: You can have a trike, then.

Mr Callister: Well, it leaves tricycles and four-wheeled bicycles up in the air as well, but nevertheless I think those were the main points that were raised at First Reading, Mr President. If there are any tricky technical questions, the Director of Transport, Mr Richard Pearson, is here with us today. I beg to move, Mr President.

The President: Mr Downie.

Mr Downie: I beg to second, Mr President, and in doing so let us just try and look at what we are trying to do here. The Department has been given legal advice that, for whatever reason, you cannot hold bicycle races or Soapbox Derby races on roads without there being a proper legitimate reason. In another words, technically they are closed to vehicular traffic other than those taking part in the event. My understanding is when they do have cycle racing, there is pedestrian access as they are not considered to be too much of a problem. But let us just try and see what can be made out of this amendment. I know the Bishop’s amendment has not been moved yet. I do not want to get us drawn into a situation where we are putting that many restrictions on things that we have been served up, I think, with the worst of a bad deal here because we have been told that we have got to bring legislation in to cover this. At the same time, I think what we have got to try and do is make the legislation as common sense and practical as we can. For instance, I would not like to see restrictions brought in on somebody wanting to do a time trial or a bicycle race or a Soapbox Derby on a Sunday afternoon because that to me is keen family and sporting time, and as long as the event is taking place away from churches... You might want to have a hill climb in Tholt y Will on a Sunday and there are no churches out there. You might want to have an all-terrain mountain bike race and as part of that you want to use part of one of these small roads that service the Mountain Road, so you want to have that particular section closed for safety purposes and this piece of legislation would then cover all those different things that need to be done legislatively, to deal with the problem that the Department has got. I think that if there are events taking place near places of worship, that there is a commonsense approach to be taken here. The organisers themselves realise that they do not want to interfere with other people’s time and they can either avoid them or come to some other arrangement. There are plenty of places in the Isle of Man where you can have time trials or small cycle races without interfering with people’s religious activities which they might want to follow on a Sunday. Mr Callister mentioned the Commonwealth Games. We are only talking about one event on one particular day. On most Sundays when I get up about seven o’clock, quarter past seven, I go down to the Quarterbridge and there are usually a good selection of 30 or 40 cyclists there who are going off on a ride. (Interjection) They do not need any closing orders at all, but I understand the dilemma that Department is in. I think this is a good opportunity to deal with it and as long as we do not put too many restrictions on, I actually think it will work and serve the purpose that was intended.

The President: Lord Bishop.

The Lord Bishop: I am just a little bit embarrassed, Mr President, that the need for this legislation might be the fear that Christians were behaving in less than a Christian manner and I hope that is not true and that, in fact, from certainly a churches and chapels point of view, this legislation ought not to be necessary; but I accept the fact that if that is the advice that has been given, then, fair enough, it may well be necessary. I am rather anxious that there should be a definition of a soapbox, somewhere, given to us. I would try something like ‘an empty box formerly used to contain a consignment of soap, suitably adapted in order to be

Legislative Council 08 Mar 2011 propelled solely by the mechanical action of human arms and legs’. I wonder if the proposer would be willing to accept that definition?

The President: Mrs Christian.

Mrs Christian: Mr President, we call them go-karts in Maughold! (Laughter)

Mr Butt: Actually they are bogies!

Mrs Christian: I would just like the mover to clarify, because I am in danger of having the issue confused even further for me, from what he has said – can he clarify that you can continue to hold time trials on open roads? But what you are suggesting is that they may be closed on application, should it be desired to have a closed-road time trial for young people. Why young people alone I do not know, but –

The President: Mr Butt.

Mr Butt: Thank you, sir, a couple of comments. First of all, the definition of ‘mechanically propelled’. We do not need to look at the English legislation for that; we have our own version in the Road Traffic Act – (Interjection by the President) Of course they are in use! The second point is about the sunset clause. I did suggest last week that might be an idea, because I thought this Bill was purely for the Commonwealth Youth Games. If it is not for that, I have no objection at all to this Bill and I will support it. Anything that will encourage sporting activity, to my mind, is a good idea and I will be supporting the Bill; but I will point out that on a Sunday… Sunday morning is the peak time for all the athletes in the Isle of Man, all the time trials, the motorbike races, the fell running, the race walking, scrambling, they all start in the morning and they carry on throughout the Isle of Man, usually a 10 o’clock start, without any interference, as far as I know, to churches or from needing a road closing order. So I hope the point has been made that, just because we have the ability now to make road closing orders for some of these events, particularly the cycling events, it will not mean that they will be stopped from using them in the mornings, because in the mornings is the time when people get up and have their races. Just one thing the mover mentioned on sporting occasions restricted to young people. I know some time trials are purely for father and son combinations or mother and daughter, so again, we should not be too prescriptive about the age of the people taking part and as somebody said, Mr Lowey, I think, Mr Downie rather, said there are hundreds of people riding out on cycles every Sunday now. You can see them all round the TT course and through the Isle of Man, without needing a road closing order and some usually on the Sunday mornings as well, so I do hope that if we have the suitable amendment about the Sunday afternoon, it will not stop people taking part in sport on Sunday mornings.

The President: Mr Turner.

Mr Turner: Thank you, Mr President. I was interested to hear that this was sold to us on the basis of the Commonwealth Youth Games and now it seems that the mover has said we are widening it out and has used Mark Cavendish as an example, but of course Mark Cavendish has got to where he is without this provision being in. I wonder why the DoI are deciding to restrict it to youth – picking up on the comment from my hon. colleague, Mr Butt – and also I do not believe this is the right provision to achieve what you are trying to achieve. I would like to know why – and maybe this is something the learned Attorney can point out – for the likes of the Soapbox Derby, the go-karts, whatever else they are called in Laxey, it is thought that the Road Races Act overrides provisions in the Highway Act, that they can close. Turning to the Road Races Act itself, if you make a road race order and close the road, who can actually go on that road, because as I understand in cycle racing they have mechanically propelled vehicles on there riding round? There are vans and recovery vehicles. I know from my own experience within the Motor Sports Association (MSA), the governing body of four wheel sport, those vehicles are covered under the permits of the event. If you are going to be permitting events to be issued road closing orders under the Road Races Act, are those organisers going to be under the auspices of a governing body or not; and, if so, where is the insurance, because to get insurance when you are closing a road is not a cheap process? The likes of the Auto Cycle Union (ACU) and the MSA have a very high level insurance policy which filters down to member clubs and enables them to piggyback off the back of it by virtue of their recognised club. So there is a whole number of issues here, which appear to me not to have been explained as to quite where it is covered. Again, I would like to know where the provision arises that the road cannot be closed under the relevant highway legislation.

Legislative Council 08 Mar 2011 I mentioned at First Reading why I was objecting to this. Objecting to this is not objecting to sport. There are another six days in the week where events can be held. As someone who is involved in organising motorsport, I feel that the public are hit too much with road closures and their patience is being tried. I mentioned at First Reading that one of the jobs I have undertaken in the past is to go round and knock on doors and deliver notifications of road closures. The people who receive the road closures could not care less whether it is mechanically or non-mechanically; they just do not like being shut in. So the fact that this is allowing non-mechanically propelled, I think, is quite irrelevant. What we are actually doing is allowing Sunday road closures, and as someone who is involved in events that close roads throughout the week, I just feel that this is going too far and I think the public deserve to have at least one day in the week where they know they are not going to be inconvenienced. There is provision in the main Act for the TT and the Grand Prix and we understand the reasons why that provision is in there, because as a festival, it is limited by its two-week period with a high level of visitors coming over and with the postponements, you need that middle day in the event, because of the timetable of the events and that has been accepted for a great number of years; but many of these other events happen at different times, their dates move and the public, quite honestly, are getting very tired of the number of road closures there are and if we are going to see a whole raft, as we have just heard from the mover of this Bill, of Sunday road closures, I think we are going to encourage an incredible amount of unrest from people who… we rely on their tolerance to operate these events; I think it goes too far. I also understand from my time in the Department of Tourism that, when this was being mooted about Sunday road closures for events, it was not specifically for non-mechanically propelled vehicles. There was widespread objection to this and I would like to know what consultation the Department has done, where the result of this consultation was published and indeed, what the result of it was. Certainly I have not been aware of a full consultation on this and this is quite a widespread, wholesale change to have road closures on a Sunday and I do not believe the consultation has gone wide enough. If this was merely a Bill enabling racing for the Commonwealth Youth Games, I may have been inclined to support it, but I will not be supporting it and I am even minded to move that this should be actually sent to a committee to look fully at what the implications of this are on the wider aspects of the road races, not least to look into the issues surrounding how this overrides the highways legislation to see whether it is necessary. I am certainly looking into implications of, when you make that order, who is going to be on the road, because it will not just be the cyclists taking part, there will be other people on that road, and how the whole insurance and governing body fits in with that, as it does with ACU and MSA events, which the original legislation was primarily designed for.

The President: Mr Lowey.

Mr Lowey: I find myself on the side of Mr Turner on this particular Bill. I have put it down as a chameleon Bill because... and I would doubt... First of all, if I can say, I am worried about its parentage. When it started, it was sold as a vehicle for the Commonwealth Youth Games and now it is being changed, so I do not know where the parentage comes in for this. Can I come to the mover of the Bill. He says the legal advice fluctuates. Can I have a clear indication from the Member that the advice has not reverted to what I would call another standpoint of view, notwithstanding the position of this Bill now before us? I have got a feeling that maybe what I would call the highway road closing Act versus the Road Races Act and the legal interpretation of one being superior to the other has reverted yet again, and if that is the case then there is really no case for this particular Bill at all. However, if he could give me an update on this flexible legal advice... I would have to disagree with my good friend, Mr Butt, when he says all. I would say the majority of sporting events are on Sunday morning – I would accept that – but cross-country running and fell running, I do know, take place on a Sunday afternoon, because I go out... In my case, if I was running in the morning, they would have to keep the thing open until the evening for me to come home! However, I do support my nephews and great-nephews who do take part and I do know that they go on a Sunday afternoon, even at Laxey. They were out at Lonan a fortnight ago. So I do know that there is a full-time... not just a specific... on the mornings. I just wonder... I am going to support the Bishop’s amendment too. I note the mover of the Bill says the Department will not object to that and I hope the Council will agree with that. Maybe churches are not involved, but people have got to travel sometimes to churches. They do not always live alongside the church. I know people who travel quite a way to come to Malew, for example, from time to time, and therefore it is this insidious drip-drip on the Sabbath which I think we have got to be aware of. Therefore, I will be supporting the Bishop’s amendment. I would urge the Hon. Member to tell me what is the up-to-date legal advice regarding the highways Bill versus the Road Races Bill, which is the driving force for this legislation having to be brought in. My advice is that it has changed yet again. I am back to the chameleon bit: it has changed, although the Bill is here before us.

Legislative Council 08 Mar 2011 It may only be a two-clause Bill, and I am always reminded of the thing – good things come in little bottles. The reverse of that is poison comes in bottles too, and they are little bottles as a rule, aren’t they? You do not see gallons of poison. The two clauses may mean a little, or it may mean a lot. I think this Bill, if we pass it without examination, does seem to me to be a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

The President: Mr Callister, I think.

Mr Callister: Thank you, Mr President. First of all, I thank Mr Downie for seconding the Bill and, indeed, supporting the Bill –

Mr Downie: You are too long, I have got to go.

Mr Callister: You have got to go? Well, I will thank you very much, then, Mr Downie. (Laughter) Also the definition which covers the Soapbox Derby. The way it has been explained to me is that, an event held on a road, which requires two or more competitors to compete for prize is a race. That apparently is the basis for the Soapbox Derby being a race because they compete for a prize. To move on, the Lord Bishop: I thank him very much for his definition of ‘soapbox’ and I hope he is working on go-karts now for a definition! That was excellent. I dare say the learned Attorney would agree with that. As far as the time trials are concerned, the note that I had, and this was in regard to Mrs Christian’s original enquiry, said the amendment would allow applications to be made to hold time trials on closed roads, which would be restricted to youth cycling events.

Mrs Christian: Why? It does not say that.

Mr Callister: This also, to some extent, comes under the Child Protection Act, I am told. However, the indication to me is, if it is restricted to youth cycling events, then it should not apply to adult events. That is the way I certainly read it. Moving on to Mr Butt and the amount of sporting events and sporting matters that happen on Sunday, yes it is perfectly true, it is a big day for sport in the Isle of Man certainly for cycling, and I personally have not in the past had any information about difficulties with the time trials that have taken place. They seem to be a fairly well organised. The matter of –

The President: Can I just stop you, Mr Callister. Just out of interest – because I think we are getting hung up on that a little bit in relation to time trials – are you telling Council that a time trial is a race?

Mr Callister: No, I am not telling –

The President: You were giving the indication that applications could be made under this to hold a time trial.

Mr Callister: Yes. That is what I was given. Applications can be given to hold time trials on closed roads. Are they races? The answer to that, as far as the Department is concerned, is they are.

The President: In that case, all the time trials which are held every Sunday through the summer by the cycle clubs – Manx Biking, Wheelers and Ellan Vannin etc – they will have to make an application every week. Anyway, carry on, sir.

Mr Callister: I will refer that in a moment or two. However, let me continue. Mr Butt introduces another element to this: a father and son in time trials. They do, and again we need clarification and certainly will need it on that. Mr Turner referred to road closures and closed roads on which other vehicles will be able to use the roads. If the roads are closed, they are closed for an event. Therefore, no other road users will be using them during that period of time but those people taking part in the event.

The President: Again, Mr Callister, I think if it is a race of some length – for example, for many years we held cycle races on closed roads over the TT mountain course and those cycle races were always accompanied by motor cars which were on the road... I think that is the point that Mr Turner is making.

Legislative Council 08 Mar 2011 If the Commonwealth Games cycle races that are coming up shortly, the youth cycle races, are going to cover any distance, I would be very surprised if the organisers are not planning on having a vehicle going with them in case of a puncture where they can change a wheel, etc. I would be very surprised. It is just a little wary.

Mr Callister: Yes, but that part of that event and those vehicles are approved.

The President: Which is what Mr Turner was asking you.

Mr Callister: Yes, well, if that was the point he was making... if that is the point he is making then, yes, obviously that would be necessary in any case. The insurance matter I did cover at First Reading, Mr President. The organisers of the event are required to submit details of the event, including the management plans, insurance details, traffic management plans, together with information about prohibited restricted areas and so on. They must be submitted before an order can be written and processed... an order to close the road for the event. The TT and Manx Grand Prix, of course, are allowed to have a race on one specific Sunday only and that is a restriction. The consultation is another point raised by Mr Turner. The consultation was for both the motorised and non- motorised. It took place in December 2009. There were 57 responses and the outcome of those responses was fairly balanced. So, yes, the consultation has taken place and a fairly balanced outcome of that. Sending the Bill to a committee is… You may as well just take it now and tear it up, because the time that is left to deal with this and get it into law, before the Commonwealth Games, is, I think, 182 days before the Games open, which is a six-month period and we would certainly run out of time by going to a committee. I think that is a suggestion that would be in no way helpful whatsoever. Mr Lowey, asked, and indeed I think people are keenly interested in knowing about this conflicting information received. This may well interest the Attorney as well. The information I was given this morning, which was very rapidly countermanded, says the Department has received conflicting advice on this issue, the latest being that the Soapbox Derby can be authorised under section 38 of the Highways Act. That was given, I understand, by a member of the AG’s office and within a very short time of this message, I had a further message to say that that is not possible, it has been changed, it cannot be done under section 38 of the Highways Act, it needs to have this legislation. So I am purely in the hands of the legal eagles, as far as that is concerned. I may or may not have dealt with all the queries. If there is anything... the Bishop, of course, will, as I mentioned earlier… We will be able to support his amendment, if it is the one that I saw earlier.

The President: In that case, Hon. Members, the motion I put to Council is that the Road Races (Amendment) Bill be read for a second time. Those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it.

Road Races (Amendment) Bill 2010 Clauses stage deferred

Mr Crowe: Mr President, because of the differing views on this, and not to hold the passage up, could we adjourn the clauses stage and take clauses in Third Reading in two weeks’ time? There seems to be so much in the air and conflicting legal advice and so on –

Mr Lowey: My advice at dinner time was that it had gone back. I do not know.

Mr Crowe: We are attempting, if we go to clauses now, to pass a Bill that I am sure lots are feeling unclear about or unhappy about.

The President: I am perfectly happy to adjourn to the clauses stage if we accept it and we will take the clauses stage and possibly the Third Reading together, though I understand that maybe Mr Callister would have liked to be progressing a little quicker than that. I think the big problem is that nobody... I am absolutely certain there is not a soul on the Isle of Man who wants to stop the Commonwealth Youth Games (Mr Lowey: Absolutely.) cycle race, and in reality there are very few people who would want to stop a Soapbox Derby down on promenade, when in fact they have got an access road the other way around. So, in those sort of things it is a bit of a nonsense, this whole thing.

Legislative Council 08 Mar 2011 If there is a requirement for clarification – and Mr Turner raised it – hands up. If there is a disagreement over the interpretation of the Highways Act in relation to the Road Races Act, and a disagreement over what is a time trial and what is not a time trial, I just think that we are probably maybe advised to hold it over for a week or two and take consideration, but I am in Members’ hands. (Mr Braidwood: Agreed.) Mr Turner.

Mr Turner: Mr President, I would agree that, as there are certain aspects that I did ask that we could have maybe clarified by the learned Attorney and I appreciate he may not be able to give us the answers straight away. I do have concerns about the insurance issue, and I have highlighted that, that there could be one of these support vehicles, if it was to leave the road and crash into a third-party. There are so many issues here that need clarifying, I would certainly support this be held over.

The President: Mr Callister.

Mr Callister: We do have the Director of Highways with us, Mr President, if these questions are clearly in the minds of Members now, they could be asked of the Director.

Mr Lowey: The Director is not a legal man.

Mr Callister: He is not, I agree.

Mr Braidwood: Mr President, I would probably go along with the recommendation put to us by Mr Crowe, that we hold over and take the clauses and the Third Reading.

The President: I will put that to Council, Hon. Members, that we hold over – Mr Callister, with respect – the clauses stage, on the understanding that we will take the clauses stage with the Third Reading, which would mean that we would be dealing with it in a fortnight’s time. Hon. Members, those in favour, please say aye; against, no. The ayes have it. The ayes have it. Hon. Members, I would add to that by saying that it would be helpful, I think, probably to the Attorney and certainly to Members, if the legal draftsman who drafted this legislation was available for Members, equally along with Mr Pearson, so that in fact we will get a correct interpretation, or a better interpretation. We do seem to be thrashing around a little, which is never satisfactory. If I can just make one aside, to Mr Callister – because I am like that, aren’t I? – I think, in your opening comments, you said something like the Department has no intention to restrict... No, that the Department would wish to restrict road closures on a Sunday. Well, it is rather the same as section 22 of the previous legislation. Whilst this Department may wish to restrict, once it is in law, another Department can do what it likes. Hon. Members, that draws to a conclusion the business on our Order Paper. Our sitting then is in Tynwald on 15th March and we will be back here for legislation on the 22nd. Hon. Members, we have had circulated to us the Council of Ministers’ summary. I do not know whether you wish to carry that over or deal with it today.

Mr Braidwood: Carry it over, please, Mr President.

The President: Carry that over as well. In that case, Hon. Members, we will carry that over to the next sitting as well. Thank you, Hon. Members.

Legislative Council 08 Mar 2011