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KATHY D. &p INS , unfol! 9 1988 Summer. Olympics ts, and friends euben Clark Lazu School

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rmed a cluS":called Athletics they would subsidize my law 01 if I continued trair heir one stipulation was that I

ross-country and track team I had was a law school there, so I enrolle in either sport. In one y n Law School. onary who was a walk-c Fkpbsidizcd my schooling while I continued to train chaser to a participant in the Olympic fi5.3 @#@&:~$my sccond year, I made the 1980 Olympic team. a second off the American record at 8:23 #$.S boycotted the games, I won the Olympic tri- &;jy American record during my second year in Was it about that time you stai-ted making defini: law school? I'd always planned on being an attorney-even whe s Wheit did your i.

in grade school. My father was a Harvard law graduate. I ~ Aft :.:.:.> uiipcc he inqtilled that in me ...... 5'...1 livinv in Eugene. si-

ILLUSTRATION BY JOLEBN HUGHPS

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Did you find that combining the daily in the top 10 in the world. That’s unpar- physical training and the rigors of study in alleled in track history. And that’s been law school were almost impossible at while I’ve been going through law school times? Or were the two endeavors more and working at a law firm. compatible than an outsider might think? Law school’s really pretty easy. It’s 1 would suspect that you’ve had some peo- running that’s hard. ple help you achieve these incredible goals. I’m fortunate that Nike came in and Wait a minute! subsidized me, that I had a lot of cooper- That will go over big with a lot of law ation from those around me, and that I students. What I’m really trying to say is had Rex Lee to run with when I was in that it’s a question of balancing. I knew my third year at BYU. when I started law school and I was still After law school, my luck held out training for the Olympic games that I when I got an opportunity with the law would have to constantly remember my firm Parsons, Behle & Latimer. I worked goals. I wanted to pass my courses, and I there for about three-and-a-half years, wanted to make the Olympic team. And and they gave me time off to train I had so I didn’t have the time othcr students an arrangement where they would just did, but still I didn’t have the time for pay me by the number of hours that I training that I normally would have had worked and let me train as I saw fit So either-because law school does take a I’ve had cooperative employers and lot of time. So I cut back in some periph- school administrators throughout my eral areas of running that are a big time career that have really helped me main- drain and have marginal athletic bene- tain this longevity in competing. fits. I cut back in both areas yet com- pleted law school in three years and inside observing several of them. In 1980 And your family has been there cheering excelled in running. we boycotted; I think 1984 was really the you on? pinnacle for me both physiologically and Definitely-although my training and Did you take the bar soon after your emotionally. The emotion in Los competing has been very difficult on the graduation ? Angeles was unbelievable for an Ameri- family. I had to have their cooperation Yes, in July 1981. That was an inter- can athlete. Korea was almost a letdown because of the unique pressures Yet I esting time in my life. I remember it dis- emotionally by comparison The Korean think that in some ways it’s helped my tinctly. I passed my courses and then people are very polite and reserved, and family a great deal. With a very flexible went off to Europe to compete. I had all they obviously didn’t cheer wildly for the work and training schedule, particularly the bar review materials with me, and Americans. I know it required a lot more since 1984, I think I’ve spent more time between my races I’d be studying for the internal motivation for our athletes to with the family than the typical law bar exam. I came back, took and passed excel there. graduate could who starts working long the bar exam, and then went back over Personally, I had a lot of motivation hours at a law firm I would work only 20 to Europe for the World Cup in Rome- since I knew that this would be the last or 30 hours a week, train, and then all this in the summer of 1981. competition of my career. I wanted to go spend the evenings at home out on a positive note. I think I did that. And then? I ran the fastest semifinal and final back- Tell me of your cutrent professional I started working for Parsons, Behle to-back races that I’d ever run in my life, involvements. & Latimer in Salt Lake City. 8% and 8:14 (the last time being one of I work for the Franklin Institute. I the fastest times I’ve run in my life). A came on as director of the corporate- How did your family life fit into all this? week before the games, I ran the second wellness division I teach time-manage- I got married right after I completed sub four-minute mile of my life. My fin- ment seminars to major corporations my undergraduate degree, and we had ish was the fastest sixth-place time in throughout the country. our first child between my first and sec- history. So, I feel that I went out strong. ond year of law school. So I had time I didn’t win a medal but I fought hard Your career today would be classijied as an pressures that I had to be continually until the end of my career, and I finished alternative to the traditional practice of balancing. my last year as the number-one Ameri- law. How does your legal training fit in? can steeplechaser. I find that my legal background has I understand that 1988’s competition was Obviously the Olympics have been a meant a lot to me in many ways, even your grand finale Could you share with us big part of my life. I’m one of only three though I may never formally work in a your reflections about the 1988 Olympics American male runners who have made law firm again. In my current profession, and those that preceded it? four Olympic teams, so I’m really proud if I have to draw up a contract I know I think I have a unique perspective of of my longevity record. During that time, how to do it. And so I think I’ll always the Olympics since I’ve been on the every year for the past 13 years, I’ve been use my legal background.

4 One main benefit of legal training has Were you in college during this time? And to be credibility. Someone who’s a mem- did you play basketball there? ber of the bar has instant credibility that Yes, I was attending the University of opens doors for them. For instance, I Henry Marsh Calgary, where I received my under- started out on the legislative committee graduate degree I was a guard on the of the Olympic committee because of my university team, and we were always legal background. Currently, for the competitive in the Canadian University U.S. Olympic Committee, I’m president League of the Athletes Advisory Council, and I’m on the executive board and the What did you do between the 1984 and the administrative committee. I’ve done a 1988 Olympics? lot of work with the Utah amateur effort Because of my Olympic dream I had in the summer and winter games, and I put off my mission until the 1984 Olym- serve on the governor’s task force work- pics Denver drafted me and I went ing to bring the winter Olympic games to down and tried out, making it to the Utah. I feel that most of these oppor- final cuts before they released me They tunities have been direct results of my encouraged me to go to Europe and to legal background. come back and try out again I told them that I’d think about it, but I went back Any concluding thoughts? home and dccidcd to go on my mission In thinking about the correlation It seemed like the perfect time between the legal profession and run- ning and athletics, I would have to con- Where did you serve your mission? clude that there are some interesting In the California Arcadia Mission I parallels. The type of person who wants didn’t play basketball at all while I was to become an attorney is usually one but I did make what they call the “B” on my mission, but I did run and I also who is methodical and analytical Those team. They kept 18 players and 12 of shot a few early morning baskets. same traits are applicable to athletic those were on the “A’ team and the training and competing. other six of us went to tournaments with How did you get involved with the Olympic the bottom half of the “A’team. team again? It was in 1982 that I made the “A’ About the time my mission was end- KARL TILLEMAN team as the 12th man. In 1983 I moved ing, I received a phone call from Coach up and played a more important role on Donahue inviting me to come back the team, and in 1984 I wound up being When did your connection with your Olym- sixth man I came right off the bench How dificult was it getting back in the pic sport begin? early in the games. swing? e Even in grade school, I loved playing Somewhat difficult. I came right back basketball. I was born in Ogden, Utah, Can you play on the team if you are not a and went on a couple of trips with the where I caught the Mormon fever for Canadian citizen? team over to China and Korea I wasn’t basketball. When we moved to Wiscon- I have dual citizenship. The US. law in condition to play, but at least I was sin, it was a big sport there, too. But now states that an adult can’t apply for respectable. when I was 12 our family moved to Can- Canadian citizenship and retain U.S cit- ada. At first I was distraught because I izenship. The original law assumed that When did your w$e, Holly, enter the didn’t think that they played much bas- all countries had their age of adulthood picture? ketball there Fortunately, I was wrong. set at 21, but in Canada it’s 18, so the We met before my mission and corre- law didn’t cover it. I went to the sponded while I was away. After I So when did you start thinking about trying U.S. Consulate General in Canada, and returned we planned to get married out for the Olympic team? she said that there wouldn’t be a prob- within a year. That’s about the time I When I was in high school, I saw the lem, so I went ahead with the applica- decided to apply for law school. My Canadians play the Americans in the tion. They subsequently changed the law future father-in-law had told me that if I Montreal Olympics in 1976, and I star- I was fortunate that it all worked out wanted to marry his daughter, I needed ted to dream about playing with the because I really wanted to try out for the to have a future. I don’t think that he Canadian Olympic team. Canadian team. considered a future in basketball to be enough. How did you make that dream a reality? How did your team do in the 1984 I didn’t waste much time. I simply Olympics ? And so you applied to law schools. phoned the coach of the team, Jack We finished fourth and just missed Yes-that was 1986. Also my plans to Donahue, and asked if I could try out winning the bronze medal by three get married in a year turned into a six- My first year I got cut from the “A’ team, points in a loss to Yugoslavia. month plan. Holly was attending BYU, so

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I moved down here and worked full-time I understand that you went full-time your at the MTC during the spring and winter first year, but with the Olympics going well of 1987. That summer I traveled with the into the fall 1988 semester you needed to Canadian national program to the World Kart Tilleman make some arrangements with the school Student Games in Yugoslavia and to the When we received our training Pan American Games. schedule for the Summer Olympics, I realized that our trial camp was smack Were you wondering how to fit law school dab in the middle of my winter-semester into this busy schedule? exams. I phoned my coach and asked if I was so busy that I didn’t have much there was any way we could work around time to think about law school. I got my exam schedule. He told me that he back and started school about a week didn’t see one because he couldn’t let late. I walked into this building and me be a member of the team without everyone was on page 150 in criminal trying out. law-and I hadn’t even started reading Next I went and discussed my predic- in any of my classes. I didn’t have any of ament with Deans Hansen, Fleming, the orientation and didn’t even know and Zobell. They were very helpful. I what a library quiz was. Not having any had to get permission from each of my idea what was going on, I was just blown professors to take the exams at times right out of the water. other than those scheduled. The deans and the professors arranged to give me But you seem to have managed. the same amount of time the other stu- I just jumped into my classes. I didn’t dents had had before their exams. play any basketball for my first month-at law school. I didn’t even look at a gym. I What was your mkd Olympics and law was just going full speed in my classes. school exams schedule? My brother had graduated from this law I took my civil procedure and con- school, and so he helped me out with the tracts exams, got on a plane and flew to pressures. He talked me through it all Canada for the tryouts. After a week and was a calming influence. I just took them one at a time I felt and a half, they gave us a week off before fortunate that I was a part of good study training started. That was the week that When you were able to begin training groups; I felt prepared. I tried to apply I came down and took my property and again, what was your schedule? the same basic philosophy that I do in torts exams. A tough couple of weeks. Before I left Canada, my coach gave athletics: you have one opportunity; Exams and the team required so much me a training program. As I mentioned, sometimes you fail and sometimes you intensity, and they were both very impor- I didn’t follow it for the first six weeks win, but you should always give it your tant to me. that I was back at school. In November I best shot. I had thought that maybe I could started worrying that I needed to be study during the trials, but I wasn’t able ready to play over the Christmas break Was the trip to Holland a nice break for to. It was a 10-hour-a-day ordeal, and I when the team traveled to Holland At you? was physically and mentally exhausted. that point, I began going down to the It was. It was a tournament with Aus- Richards Building and training. tralia, Canada, Germany, Israel, and two Obviously the tiyouts went well for you It was a tough time for me, and I or three Dutch teams I’ve always Yes, I made the team, and then we found the physical workouts a good enjoyed traveling and playing in these had a big round-robin qualification tour- release for the depression and anxiety I exhibition games, but I also decided to nament at the end of May in South struggled with at times. Ironically, I spend as much time there on school America. Only three teams from North probably could have benefited from that work as I could. After my slow start the and South America can qualify to go to kind of outlet earlier in the semester. On first semester, I was determined to do the Olympics. top of everything else, our first child was everything I could to be on top of things due sometime in November. My wife when school started again in January. Did Canada have any difficulty qualifying went to Canada early in the month, and So, I took a casebook and a hornbook this year? then I flew up to join her over the for property and torts with me and read I don’t remember it as easy. The cru- Thanksgiving holidays. We just prayed about 150 pages in each, That extra cial game was against Uruguay in that the baby would cooperate and be study was very helpful. I got a handle on Uruguay. They had beaten us previously, born during that four-day period. He did some concepts and that allowed me to so we had our work cut out for us- and was born on November 21 concentrate on some others I was having though I felt that we were a more tal- trouble with. I was determined that I ented team. In their gym the spectators And then you returned to face your first was going to be able to smile during that get out of control. They throw coins at round offinals How were they? next semester. you and jump the referees if they don’t

7 like a call. I kept telling the police in ably several years later than most players Spanish to help us out. When the final do. Because of the late start, I knew game was over and we had won, we had from the beginning that I had to put to grab our warm-up jackets, put them Karl Tilleman extra time and cffort into my game. I over our heads and race to the tunnel! concentrated so much on it that I became consumed with playing And I Did you get a chance to play quite a bit really learned to love the game during those qualifying rounds? It’s exciting when something you Yes, I did, though I don’t think I enjoy gives you opportunities beyond played my best during that tournament. what you would expect. I know that because of basketball I had options in Was your entire summer devoted to training college and certainly with the Olympic for the Olympics or did you mix in some team that I couldn’t have had otherwise law? I feel very fortunate My training schedule was consuming, but we did come down to Provo for a When did you start to think about trying month in June, and I did some research out for the Olympic team? for Professor Backman I wound up play- I first saw the Canadian team play ing in the Utah Summer Games during when I was in the 10th or 11th grade, and that time. I think I needed that slowed- I remember being incredibly motivated down pace to recharge a bit After that to put cverything I had into being good month, until the Olympics, my training enough to play at that level. Though I was like a full-timc job We trained in think the Olympics became a goal of Calgary for a couple of weeks and then mine then, I had a hard time visualizing made another trip over to China and The city, my team . everything was mysclf competing there. Korea to get used to the conditions a good experience for me I was relaxed I did feel that if I put all my efforts After that we trained in eastcrn Canada and performed well and that meant a into it I could make the national tcam, and then went down to New York City in grcat deal to me After being in the but I knew the timing had to be just right August and played against some profes- Olympics once before, I wanted to play and I had to be ready to be a part of the sional summer-league teams. We wound well and win But I knew that despite the Olympics If I peaked and was the best up in Vancouver for about a week and a final score, life would go on that I could be in 1986, it wouldn’t do me half and then left for Seoul on Septem- much good if my goal was to play in the ber 10. What are your plans now, Karl? Is there 1988 games another Olympics in your fiiture? As I think about the timing, I’m even What were your initial impressions of the I don’t think so I think it’s time to more convinced that the difference Olympics? stop traveling so much and concentrate between being an Olympic athlete and I would say that participating in the on my family and the law. When you’re not being one is very subtle. If a kid has Olympics is the most exciting thing that an Olympic athlete in law school with a a bad day when the coaches are there to can happen to an amateur athlete. All family, it has to be a family team effort I see him play, that could be the end of it. the great athletes in the world are there, really appreciate Holly, and she deservcs So you have to be ready to perform at a and it seems like the whole focus of the to have me stick around and earn our peak repeatedly I think that the secret world is there. It was very exciting. living to distinguishing yourself from other good players is to put more effort into Did yoii receive a warm reception from the How do you think your athletic training practice and to strive for excellence con- people? will enhance your ability to study andprac- sistently every day. Yes, the Korean people werc really tice law? great to us. One of the most enjoyable I’ve learned about setting goals, com- And, as you applied that kind of effort, times was when several LDS athletes mitting mysclf to those goals, and then things began to fall into place. spoke at a regional fircside for the seeing them through to completion. My Yes As a couple of ycars went by I Korean Young Adults training has taught me about discipline, could see that I was getting closer to my The chapel was packed full of mis- resilience, and perseverance. I hope now dream; I got a little bit hungry-I could sionaries and young adults The stake I can apply what I’ve learned to the law start to taste the payoff that could come president was translating our talks for because of my efforts. us, and it was intriguing to watch the During my last year in high school I delayed reaction as our message came DAVID TURCOTTE made it on Canada’s national team. across From then on, I feel that I was very for- tunate. Most players have to wait until Any memories in particular that stand out When did yoii begin playing basketball? the latter part of thcir college careers to for you? *I started playing in ninth grade, prob- earn an Olympic tryout, but I was only

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18 when I got a shot at it. The rest of the lenging him and making him play harder, players were 24 or 25 years of age and and I loved the fact that he was a most of them had already been through national team player who had a phenom- one Olympics. D av id Turco t te enal reputation and was taking the time to make me a better player by challeng- What year was that? ing me. That was 1985. As I look back, I remember it being a little awkward. I Did you keep in touch with Karl after that was definitely the rookie, which meant I initial meeting? got the privilege of carrying as many of Not really. He went on and played in the equipment bags through airports as I the 1984 Olympics, and I didn’t see him could manage. for two years while he was on his mis- But 1 was close enough to my goal of sion. We had a reunion of sorts when, in playing in the Olympics that the dream 1986, we were paired up as roommates at wasn’t as intimidating to me as it had the initial training camp. We had no been when I was younger. There were trouble remembering each other and hit still three years to go but I could focus it off right away Since we were together on the reality of it. 24 hours a day, it could have been a diffi- cult situation if Karl hadn’t been such a I would imagine that those three years went terrific person He is probably the best by quickly. friend I have in the world today. They went by so fast that I don’t even know if they existed! I played basketball where did you attend college?And why did year-round those three years: three you select that school? months of the year for the national team Colorado State University. Since Col- and the rest of the time for my college orado is so far away from my home, I’m team. I never had a summer job; I never sure that it was the recruiting efforts had a vacation. that got me there I was recruited by sev- eral big, top-20 schools. Colorado State Did you ever get tired of the game during wasn’t as prestigious as some of them, those years ? but I went to Colorado State with the Amazingly, I didn’t, probably because understanding that I could pick the I love the game so much. Playing is rec- And one of ymr teammates was Karl Tille- courses I wanted to take and graduate reation for me but it’s also something man. Did you first meet him after you on time in four years. that I’ve had specific goals for. My made the team? motivation is different from that of some No, we had met a couple of years ear- These factors were important because of players; I never played because of social lier. It’s kind of a funny story. Karl and I your Olympic timetable? or financial pressures. I play because I are identical when it comes to our Absolutely. When I talked with the love to play. intense competitiveness, and we found schools, I always brought it up, I wanted that out on our first encounter. When I to study business to get a diverse back- After the initial adjustment, how did you was in the 12th grade, my next to last ground, and I was told by some of the get along with your teammates? year of high school, I was invited to come schools that I could not take classes if Very well. The twelve of us were a to a national camp to meet the players they were going to interrupt my athletic mixed group. We came from different and to work out with the team a little bit. schedule. In other words, I couldn’t reg- economic and cultural backgrounds and Karl was there, and the first thing I said ister for any classes between 10 a.m. and our association with one another to him wasn’t “Hello” but, “Do you want 1 p+m,Some required that classes would enriched us all. The common denornina- to play a little one-on-one?” have to be before 8 a.m. or after 5 p.m. tors of the group were skill, talent, and discipline. It’s unique to be counted And what were the results of that matchup? And Colorado State was willing to work among the top twelve players in an Karl beat me decisively in the first with you? entire nation, game and then, in the second game, I They were terrific. They made it pos- We had a team that was very cohe- think he relaxed a little and I came out sible for me to achieve all my athletic sive; we liked being together and, as a on top. He didn’t handle that too well, so goals and all my academic goals. I ended result, I think we played better I’m glad we played a third game to break the tie. up with a double major in economics we did enjoy each other’s company; and business management. My coach because for three solid months out of Interesting way to get to know someone there, Boyd Grant, was always straight every year, we lived together, ate No doubt. I think we both really with me. He told me that he expected together, practiced together, and played enjoyed the encounter. Karl liked the me to do my share and that they would together. fact that I was a young kid that was chal- help me do what I wanted to do.

10 As you look back on your college career, Are you able to combine the rigors of law what are some memories that stand out? school with your training schedule? I had a phenomenal college career; I I think so. Yet sometimes I do get had more fun than I think any person David Turcotte nervous about what I’ve taken on. I feel deserves to have! I had great academic like I’m living a dual life. I want to do success, in part because I enjoyed the well in my classes so that I don’t limit my courses that I was taking. I had excellent opportunities while I’m in school and instructors in the classroom and in the after I graduate. gym. My diverse experiences at Colo- One price I’ve had to pay to keep rado State considerably helped me everything in motion is that I have to develop personally. function on less sleep. I simply run out The best thing that happened to me of hours in the day because of classes, while I was in college was that I met my studying, and three to four hours of wife, Joanie. She has a business degree training. I can only hope that I’m spend- from CSU and is from Denver. We dated ing quality time on my studies and that while we were both i-n school and then the physical exercise allows me to come got married in March. back to the casebooks refreshed.

How has she adjusted to the fast track that Wth these challenges in mind, have you yoit have selected, athletically and started to formulate a game plan for law academically? school? She keeps busy herself, working, and I’m working on putting one together; she’s thinking about pursuing a master’s and, in the process, I’m finding all kinds degree She’s also an artist. The hardest of parallels with physical training. I part for us has been the travel that I believe that you need to set a series of have to do as part of training with the intermediate, smaller goals to help you Olympic team. During the summer, I’m While attending school at Colorado arrive at major one. One minor goal I gone for six weeks with no visits on State, I learned to love this part of the have is to always be prepared for class. If weekends. In spite of some of these country I love the mountains; this area I do this, I find the whole process to be demands, though, Joanie is supportive is ideal for outdoor training. less intimidating. I also try to concen- because she can see the benefits for us in So I really made up my own mind to trate on my efforts rather than worrying the long run. come here. In fact, I wanted to surprise about what my classmates are doing. I Karl that I had made this choice. When can only control what I’m doing, so I try When did you first decide that you would he asked me which law schools I was to keep my focus there. Karl also helps go to law school? applying to, I told him that I was looking me by encouraging me to avoid the dis- It’s funny; somehow, I always felt that at University of Utah, Colorado Univer- tractions and dead ends that can be very I should be a lawyer Maybe it was sity, University of Denver, Cornell, Yale, time consuming. because when I was in high school trying BYU, University of Toronto, and York I also try to remember that proper to persuade my teachers to adopt my University of Canada We seemed pacing is essential. Law school is a three- point of view, they would comment, “Boy, pleased that BYU was one option, but I year process; I can’t burn out in the first Dave, you ought to be a lawyer.” could tell he wanted it to be my decision. semester and expect to succeed. I’ve got But what attracted me most to this to be committed and disciplined day in profession was my observation of law- What made you select BYU over the other and day out. I’m new to this setting so yers. They seemed to be among the ones schools in the West? I’ll have to let you know how my plan who were making a difference in the After checking around, I decided works out. world. I don’t think that I could ever be that BYU was the best law school in the satisfied in a profession if I didn’t believe West. It has high academic qualifications And after law school? that I was involved in accomplishing and great facilities Probably most I’ll graduate in April 1992, partici- things that matter. important to me was that BYU has a pate in the Olympics, and then study for reputation for turning out graduates the bar exam. I know that this kind of W%enyou started applying to law schools, that are top-rate in terms of their ethics approach won’t be easy, but I anticipate did Karl persuade you to look closely at I’m not LDS, but I subscribe to the pro- combining both law and athletics BYU? fessional standards that I knew would be throughout my life. Yes and no. I was glad that Karl taught here. So, when I thought about would be here for one year because he is all the factors most important to me, I What about the 1996 Olympics? a good friend and he’s someone that can could see that BYU had all of the ingre- If my hometown, Toronto, gets the steer me clear of some problems. How- dients- academically, personally, and bid for ’96, I couldn’t resist giving it a ever, I was already convinced that I geographically; so it was the logical shot. I might be too old then for that should go to law school in the West choice. level of competition, but I’d have to try.

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