E PL UR UM IB N U U S Congressional Record United States th of America PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE 105 CONGRESS, SECOND SESSION

Vol. 144 WASHINGTON, WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 5, 1998 No. 109 Senate The Senate was not in session today. Its next meeting will be held on Monday, August 31, 1998, at 12 noon. House of Representatives WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 5, 1998

The House met at 10 a.m. and was last day’s proceedings and announces as a state public relations director, dis- called to order by the Speaker pro tem- to the House his approval thereof. trict commander, and chaplain in local pore (Mr. PETERSON). Pursuant to clause 1, rule I, the Jour- post 5691. f nal stands approved. f Joe also has served the Holy Cross DESIGNATION OF THE SPEAKER Lutheran Church in many positions PRO TEMPORE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE and has balanced his life between his The SPEAKER pro tempore laid be- The SPEAKER pro tempore. Will the church, family, and the VFW. I am fore the House the following commu- gentlewoman from Ohio (Ms. KAPTUR) proud to recognize this veteran who nication from the Speaker: come forward and lead the House in the has answered the call to serve in so Pledge of Allegiance. many ways throughout his life, and I WASHINGTON, DC, Ms. KAPTUR led the Pledge of Alle- August 5, 1998. giance as follows: offer him congratulations and thanks I hereby designate the Honorable JOHN E. on behalf of all veterans. PETERSON to act as Speaker pro tempore on I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the this day. United States of America, and to the Repub- It is with the tireless efforts of peo- lic for which it stands, one nation under God, NEWT GINGRICH, ple like Joe Berg that the memories indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Speaker of the House of Representatives. and deeds of those who fought on for- f f eign soil will not be forgotten. PRAYER ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE f The Chaplain, Reverend James David The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Ford, D.D., offered the following pray- Chair will entertain 15 one-minutes per er: HOUSE TASK FORCE ON SERIOUS side. With all the tasks before us and the MENTAL ILLNESS f competing voices that demand atten- (Ms. KAPTUR asked and was given tion, may we hear Your still, small TRIBUTE TO ILLINOIS VFW MAN permission to address the House for 1 voice, O God, that calls us to lift our OF THE YEAR JOE BERG minute and to revise and extend her re- eyes to see Your vision and to hold fast (Mr. SHIMKUS asked and was given marks.) to our faith to see each day through. permission to address the House for 1 We pray, O loving God, that Your grace minute and to revise and extend his re- Ms. KAPTUR. Mr. Speaker, we all will be sufficient for all our needs and marks.) know the name Russell Weston, Jr., Your promises will lead us in the way Mr. SHIMKUS. Mr. Speaker, today I and we all know that he tragically of truth and righteousness. Guide us in rise in tribute to Illinois VFW Man of took the lives of two fine Americans, the day and protect us all the night the Year, and Collinsville native, Joe Officers Jacob J. Chestnut and John through so that we will be good stew- Berg. Mr. Berg was selected from near- Gibson. But many Americans still do ards of Your gifts to us. In Your name, ly 100,000 Illinois Veterans of Foreign not know that this tragedy could have we pray. Amen. Wars to be named the 1997–98 Man of been avoided, not by installing even f the Year and has been a dedicated lead- er in both his post and the state VFW more security here, but by improving THE JOURNAL organization. the state of health care available to The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Mr. Berg has held numerous positions the seriously mentally ill among our Chair has examined the Journal of the with the VFW, most recently serving citizens.

b This symbol represents the time of day during the House proceedings, e.g., b 1407 is 2:07 p.m. Matter set in this typefaceindicates words inserted or appended, rather than spoken, by a Member ofthe House on the floor.

H7181

. H7182 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 The state of psychiatric care in our A press release says Nish’s students crat Party took nearly $3 million in il- country has spawned growing home- will not only paint with the fresh blood legal campaign contributions from lessness, more neglect, as well as in- of these sacrificed beasts but also their Communist China. creasing violence since deinstitu- entrails. One would think that the penetration tionalization of mental patients oc- Who is this guy teaching? Jeffrey of the American electoral system by a curred over 2 decades ago with no com- Dahmer? Ridiculous. If that is not foreign power, a communist dictator- munity follow-up. enough to massage your Mona Lisa, art ship with 13 nuclear missiles aimed at The gentlewoman from New Jersey critics say this is an improvement over our shores no less, would not be a par- (Mrs. ROUKEMA) and I are working hard this Dracula of canvas last offering. tisan issue. to establish a special House task force My colleagues, this guy decorated What are we to conclude from the on serious mental illness. This task beautiful, naked women with the bow- other side’s total lack of interest in force would be responsible for examin- els of dead animals. Beam me up. What getting to the bottom of this shocking ing the state of our mental health sys- is next, folks? The Lorena Bobbitt do- scandal? What are we to conclude from tem, especially those who are not being it-yourself art expo? the other side’s silence, total silence, adequately treated. This task force This art business is out of control. in the face of FBI Director Louis Freeh would gather testimony about what We have gone from Michelangelo and and Justice Department investigator America can and should do. Picasso to Herman Nish and Charlie Charles LaBella’s public pleas for an Please support our effort to establish Kruger. I yield back any body parts left independent counsel to investigate this a task force on mental illness. Contact after this expo. matter? the leadership. Urge them to move so f I really would hate to even speculate. we can begin to repair the tattered f dreams of millions of American fami- PLIGHT OF PRAIRIE DOGS lies. (Mr. HEFLEY asked and was given WESTERN SAHARA f permission to address the House for 1 (Mr. PITTS asked and was given per- NATIONAL GAMING IMPACT STUDY minute.) mission to address the House for 1 COMMISSION Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Speaker, this week minute and to revise and extend his re- the National Wildlife Federation of Vi- marks.) (Mr. GIBBONS asked and was given enna, Virginia has petitioned to have Mr. PITTS. Mr. Speaker, I rise today permission to address the House for 1 the Black Tail Prairie Dog listed as an to urge all parties involved in the 20- minute and to revise and extend his re- endangered species in 10 western year conflict over Western Sahara to marks.) states. fulfill their commitments under the Mr. GIBBONS. Mr. Speaker, well, Understand, this was not your run-of- Houston Agreement and the United Na- here we go again. The counterfeit logic the-mill petition but a request for an tions mandate. of some Washington bureaucrats is emergency listing due to the loss of The parties negotiated a cease-fire once again putting the sovereignty of with the understanding that the people every state in this Nation at risk. habitat. While supporters of the peti- On January 22 of this year, the Sec- tion admit that the prairie dog popu- of Western Sahara themselves could retary of the Interior unilaterally lation is not critically low, the logic participate in a free, fair, and trans- made a regulatory decision that would seems to be that we should protect parent referendum to decide their own literally strip every state of their most them now because some day they future either as a part of Morocco or as fundamental rights, rights established might be endangered. an independent country. under the Tenth Amendment to the Let me tell my colleagues about the However, the July 10 report by Sec- Constitution. It seems the Secretary’s prairie dog. They are everywhere in the retary General Kofi Annan raises par- new regulation would give him the sole West. If they want habitat, come west, ticular issues of concern about the ref- individual authority to approve Indian we specialize in habitat for prairie erendum process: Obstructions to the gaming in any state. Not the voters, dogs. With all the growth we have had UN opening an office in the territory, not even the governor, nor the elected along the front range of Colorado, they the lack of progress in the demining of officials of that state would have a de- are still in abundance. the territory, and the refusal of Mo- cision. If we fly over the West, we see the rocco to identify 2,000 individuals to This unconscionable trampling of the ground plowed as if it were plowed by a vote in the referendum. Tenth Amendment is taking reserved steel plow. But it is not. It is by prairie Mr. Speaker, a free, fair and trans- rights from us, from our states, from dogs. If my colleagues are familiar parent referendum is vital to lasting our governor, from our elected officials with the West, they know that the peace and increased stability in North and unilaterally vesting them in some prairie dog is no more endangered than Africa. All parties involved in the ref- Washington bureaucrat. the fly or the gopher. erendum process should maintain their Fortunately, the nonpartisan Na- Maybe we should arrange a trade: We commitments to the utmost. tional Gaming Impact Study Commis- will protect the prairie dog if the East A failure to hold a referendum would sion, which was created by Congress to Coast agrees to protect the gopher and be a failure to all parties involved, in- study the impacts of gaming, made a the terribly endangered house fly. cluding the international community. bold but necessary policy decision tell- By the way, prairie dogs, not dogs. f They are rats. ing the Secretary to rein in his pro- VIOLATED CAMPAIGN FINANCE f posed Indian gaming rules and to rees- LAWS tablish fair and equitable relationships RENO THREE between the States and respective In- (Mr. COOK asked and was given per- dian tribes. (Mr. BALLENGER asked and was mission to address the House for 1 f given permission to address the House minute and to revise and extend his re- for 1 minute.) marks.) DRACULA OF CANVAS LAST Mr. BALLENGER. Mr. Speaker, yes- Mr. COOK. Mr. Speaker, I am not in OFFERING terday the House Government Reform the habit of always quoting from the (Mr. TRAFICANT asked and was and Oversight Committee asked ques- New York Times editorials because given permission to address the House tions about a scandal that is even more they are often reliably hostile to con- for 1 minute and to revise and extend serious than Filegate, even more out- servative values and to the Republican his remarks.) rageous than Travelgate, and even Party. But I think that is what makes Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Speaker, David more troubling than Whitewater. this New York Times July 23 editorial Bowie and Yoko Ono have sponsored This Oversight Committee asked the so remarkable, which I invite everyone Herman Nish’s 6-day Orgy Mystery Justice Department’s two top inves- to consider carefully. Theater. In the name of art, 3 bulls and tigators why an independent counsel Charles LaBella, Attorney General 6 pigs will be castrated, disemboweled, has not been named to investigate Janet Reno’s hand-picked investigator then eaten by a live audience. mountains of evidence that the Demo- to oversee the campaign finance probe, August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7183 has joined FBI Director Louis Freeh in it not been for the Republican takeover policy of deinstitutionalization and un- calling for an independent counsel to of Congress in 1994. The IRS reform bill treated mental illness. Last year alone, find out the truth about Communist passed this summer. Not a chance if over 1,000 homicides were directly at- Chinese money funneled into the the Republicans had not held the ma- tributable to improperly treated men- Democratic Party during the 1996 elec- jority. And last summer’s Medicare re- tal illness. tions. form legislation, which postponed I therefore call the attention of my Of all the independent counsel mat- bankruptcy from 2001 and 2010, it took colleagues to the initiative that the ters currently under investigation, this a Republican Congress to push for gentlewoman from Ohio (Ms. KAPTUR) particular allegation is perhaps the Medicare reform in the face of the and I are taking, urging that Speaker most serious one of all. If one party most constant, shameless demagoguery GINGRICH and the House leadership ap- systematically violates the campaign about good-faith efforts to reform point a task force to have a serious finance laws, compromised national se- Medicare. evaluation, including public hearings, curity with respect to our relations Mr. Speaker, elections do matter. on the failures of the system that re- with Communist China, and then lied Balanced budgets, tax cuts, welfare re- sult in violence in every community in about doing any such thing, that is an form, IRS reform, and Medicare re- this country that results from un- attack on democracy. form. That is the reality of the Repub- treated mental illness. If Janet Reno continues to block this lican Congress. I ask again, join us. Something good investigation, in the words of the New must come from this tragedy. f York Times, ‘‘this will go down as a f black mark against justice every bit as b 1015 historic as any in our history.’’ MANAGED CARE REFORM NATIONAL TRUCK DRIVER f (Mr. BROWN of Ohio asked and was APPRECIATION WEEK given permission to address the House JANET RENO’S FAILURE TO (Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland asked for 1 minute.) UPHOLD THE LAW and was given permission to address Mr. BROWN of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, (Mr. STEARNS asked and was given the House for 1 minute and to revise today the Committee on Commerce permission to address the House for 1 and extend his remarks.) will consider legislation reauthorizing minute and to revise and extend his re- Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland. Mr. the Mammography Quality Standards marks.) Speaker, I hope Americans will take Act, a program which has saved count- Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Speaker, I think time during the week of August 9 to less lives by improving the quality and most of us can agree this morning that note the accomplishments and con- accuracy of life-saving breast cancer the one basic task for the Attorney tributions that truck drivers and the screenings. While we improve early de- General is to uphold the Nation’s laws. trucking industry have made to our tection and screening of this deadly Yet, Janet Reno is refusing to do that lives and the prosperity of the Amer- disease, women who suffer from breast by not appointing an independent pros- ican economy. cancer continue to be denied the best ecutor to investigate campaign abuses Consider: medical treatments available because by officials in the Clinton administra- From 1986 to 1996, the fatality rate medical decisions are too often made tion. for large trucks fell by 35 percent, by insurance company HMO bureau- She is acting a lot like Rip Van while large truck mileage increased by crats. Winkle, who was asleep for over a year. 40 percent. The trucking industry em- The bipartisan Patients Bill of Rights would ensure that women could She has been asleep for the last year as ploys nearly 9.5 million Americans. stay in the hospital overnight follow- her two top investigators, FBI Director More than 423,000 companies in the ing radical breast surgery. The Repub- Louis Freeh and the head of the Jus- United States are involved in trucking. lican bill does not. The bipartisan Pa- tice Task Force Charles LaBella have In 1996 the trucking industry generated tients Bill of Rights would ensure that recommended an appointment of an $346 billion in gross revenues, hauling women can receive reconstructive sur- independent prosecutor. 6.5 billion tons of freight. Incidentally, gery following mastectomy. The Re- The law is clear. The appointment of that represents 82 percent of the Na- an independent counsel should be auto- publican bill does not. tion’s freight bill. This House has passed the Repub- matically triggered with just the hint I encourage everyone to celebrate the of laws being broken by such officials. lican Insurance Company Bill of great safety record and the contribu- Rights. I urge my colleagues to do the What more does she need? tion to our well-being of America’s But meanwhile, the Attorney Gen- right thing. Insist on a real Patients truckers by making August 9 to August eral Janet Reno keeps sitting on her Bill of Rights, legislation which pro- 15 National Truck Driver Appreciation hands blind to the evidence and, Mr. vides real protections for women. Week. Speaker, blind to the law. f f f 2000 CENSUS MENTAL HEALTH ONE-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF (Mr. EWING asked and was given per- TAXPAYER RELIEF ACT (Mrs. ROUKEMA asked and was mission to address the House for 1 (Ms. DUNN asked and was given per- given permission to address the House minute and to revise and extend his re- mission to address the House for 1 for 1 minute and to revise and extend marks.) minute and to revise and extend her re- her remarks.) Mr. EWING. Mr. Speaker, I rise today marks.) Mrs. ROUKEMA. Mr. Speaker, last to ask a simple question: Why would Ms. DUNN. Mr. Speaker, today week two members of the Capitol Po- the President want to shut down the marks the 1-year anniversary of the lice force here were killed in the line of government over the census? He once Taxpayer Relief Act, an historic piece duty here at the Capitol. The senseless said, ‘‘It is deeply wrong to shut down of legislation that consisted of the first death of those two police officers has the government while we negotiate.’’ significant tax cut since the Reagan proved to the world what many of us Now he says he will veto a bill that tax cuts of the early 1980s. already knew namely that there are would in fact close down the FBI, close Let us face it, the Taxpayer Relief gaping holes in the network of services down the courts, and bring home the Act would never have passed had it not designed to identify and treat people Border Patrol unless Congress gives been for a Republican Congress. Let us with mental illness. But I tell my col- him his plan for the 2000 census. That remember that the idea we could bal- leagues something good must come plan is one to be done by polling, not ance the budget and pass tax relief was from this tragedy, and we must work counting individual citizens. We all ridiculed by our worthy opponents on towards a lasting memorial for these know the margin of error in polling. the other side right here in this body valiant officers. Mr. Speaker, the Republican Con- almost daily not too long ago. More and more Americans are wit- gress wants to save the 2000 census. Let us also remember that welfare nessing in their communities every day The GAO and the Commerce Depart- reform would never have happened had the violence resulting from the failed ment’s own Inspectors General have H7184 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 warned that we are headed toward a But this is something that is not just The Clerk read the title of the resolu- failure in the census. We believe that Republicans getting mad at Democrats. tion. before America spends $4 billion on the This is what the liberal-leaning, Demo- The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. PE- census done by polling, we should find crat-endorsing New York Times said, TERSON of Pennsylvania). Is there ob- a way to do it the way we have for 200 that Charles LaBella, who has been jection to the request of the gentleman years, by counting each American. leading the Department of Justice from Ohio? f campaign finance investigation, has There was no objection. now advised Attorney General Janet The Clerk read the resolution, as fol- MANAGED CARE REFORM Reno that under both the mandatory lows: (Mr. GREEN asked and was given and discretionary provisions of the H. RES. 506 permission to address the House for 1 Independent Counsel Act, she must ap- Resolved, minute and to revise and extend his re- point an outside prosecutor to take SECTION 1. FURTHER EXPENSES OF THE COM- marks.) over this. MITTEE ON STANDARDS OF OFFI- Mr. GREEN. Mr. Speaker, I want to I agree with Mr. LaBella. It is time CIAL CONDUCT. share with my colleagues a letter I re- to have an outside prosecutor to figure For further expenses of the Committee on cently received from two Republican out why 3 million illegal contribution Standards of Official Conduct (hereafter in State legislators from Texas. dollars went to the Democrat Party. this resolution referred to as the ‘‘commit- Representative John Smithee, Chair- f tee’’), there shall be paid out of the applica- man of the House Committee on Insur- ble accounts of the House of Representatives CENSUS not more than $200,000. ance, and Senator David Sibley, Chair- SEC. 2. VOUCHERS. man of the Committee on Economic (Mr. MILLER of Florida asked and Payments under this resolution shall be Development opened their letter with a was given permission to address the House for 1 minute and to revise and made on vouchers authorized by the commit- plea to Congress not to disturb the sub- tee, signed by the chairman of the commit- stantial progress already achieved in extend his remarks.) tee, and approved in the manner directed by Texas on managed care reform. Their Mr. MILLER of Florida. Mr. Speaker, the Committee on House Oversight. later this morning we will be having a letter is written because the two Re- SEC. 3. LIMITATION. debate over the upcoming decennial publican leaders of the legislature in Amounts shall be available under this reso- Texas read the Gingrich Insurance Pro- census concerning an amendment by lution for expenses incurred during the pe- the gentleman from West Virginia (Mr. tection Act that was passed by the riod beginning at noon on January 3, 1998, MOLLOHAN). Unfortunately this issue House and they know what it would do and ending immediately before noon on Jan- has become very politicized, and that is uary 3, 1999. to the protections already passed by wrong because the census should not be the Texas legislature. It would render SEC. 4. REGULATIONS. part of the political debate here, it them useless. Amounts made available under this resolu- should be just counting people in this tion shall be expended in accordance with In place of the strong patient protec- country, not speculating and regulations prescribed by the Committee on tions passed in Texas, which include guesstimating by utilizing polling House Oversight. HMO accountability, binding independ- techniques. That is what exactly has SEC. 5. ADJUSTMENT AUTHORITY. ent reviews, coverage for emergency been proposed by the President. The Committee on House Oversight shall care and the elimination of gag What the gentleman from Kentucky have authority to make adjustments in clauses, Texas would be left with a amounts under section 1, if necessary to (Mr. ROGERS), the chairman of the sham bill that for every patient protec- committee, has proposed is that the de- comply with an order of the President issued tion, it gives the insurance companies under section 254 of the Balanced Budget and cision be made next spring. That is Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985 or to a loophole they can drive a truck under agreement by the President, by through because of the bill that passed conform to any reduction in appropriations the Census Bureau, the decision should for the purposes of such section 1. on this floor. be made next spring. That is when we Like many States around the coun- The resolution was agreed to. should face the decision. A motion to reconsider was laid on try, Texas has passed laws that meet Unfortunately the gentleman from the table. the needs of its citizens to deal with in- West Virginia (Mr. MOLLOHAN) says, surance companies licensed by the ‘‘Congress, you’re not relevant in this f State. We should not undermine their decision. We think only the President GENERAL LEAVE work, we should complement it on a knows best to decide and we’ll let the national basis. President decide next spring and we’re Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Speaker, I ask f not interested in what Congress has to unanimous consent that all Members may have 5 legislative days in which to THE FIRESTORM COMETH say on the issue.’’ What we believe is it should be a bipartisan decision next revise and extend their remarks on the (Mr. KINGSTON asked and was given spring when all the facts are in, we can further consideration of the bill, H.R. permission to address the House for 1 make the decision, not now, and we 4276, and that I may include tabular minute and to revise and extend his re- should have an agreement with Con- and extraneous material. marks.) gress, the Democrats and the Repub- The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there Mr. KINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, a lot of licans and the Administration. That is objection to the request of the gen- people criticize the current scandal, what we want to do. I hope everybody tleman from Kentucky? the most visible, the most popular will vote down the Mollohan amend- There was no objection. scandal at the White House as being ment. f overblown and overdiscussed and so f forth. I think perhaps that they have DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, something to say. I think there is a lot PROVIDING AMOUNTS FOR FUR- JUSTICE, AND STATE, THE JUDI- of validity in that statement. THER EXPENSES OF COMMITTEE CIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES I for one frankly am a lot more con- ON STANDARDS OF OFFICIAL APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1999 cerned about why the Chinese com- CONDUCT The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursu- munists funneled into the Democrat Mr. NEY. Mr. Speaker, I ask unani- ant to House Resolution 508 and rule National Party $3 million in illegal mous consent that the Committee on XXIII, the Chair declares the House in contributions during the last election. House Oversight be discharged from the Committee of the Whole House on What was that all about? And why sud- further consideration of the resolution the State of the Union for the further denly after that did we give them un- (H.Res. 506) providing amounts for fur- consideration of the bill, H.R. 4276. precedented missile technology, trans- ther expenses of the Committee on b fers from Loral Corporation, whose Standards of Official Conduct in the 1025 CEO Bernie Schwartz gave $600,000 per- second session of the One Hundred IN THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE sonally to the reelection efforts of the Fifth Congress, and ask for its imme- Accordingly, the House resolved Democrats and the President. diate consideration. itself into the Committee of the Whole August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7185 House on the State of the Union for the cennial census using statistical sampling tage Republican majority control of further consideration of the bill (H.R. methods and report to the Congress, not the United States House of Representa- 4276) making appropriations for the De- later than March 1, 1999, regarding whether tives. partments of Commerce, Justice, and these plans are consistent with past rec- We cannot allow this political debate ommendations made by the Academy, and over scientific sampling to kill the 2000 State, the Judiciary, and related agen- whether, in the judgment of the Academy (or cies for the fiscal year ending Septem- an appropriate expert committee thereof), Census. The on-again-off-again census ber 30, 1999, and for other purposes, these plans represent the most feasible funding in this bill would be fatally de- with Mr. HASTINGS of Washington in means of producing the most accurate deter- stabilizing, and it is for this reason the chair. mination possible of the actual population. that I feel compelled to offer an alter- The Clerk read the title of the bill. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House native solution. The CHAIRMAN. When the Commit- Resolution 508 and the order of the In summary, my amendment does the tee of the Whole rose on Tuesday, Au- House of Thursday, July 30, 1998, the following: gust 4, 1998, a request for a recorded gentleman from West Virginia (Mr. First, it provides uninterrupted full funding for the 2000 Census, removing vote on amendment No. 8 by the gen- MOLLOHAN) and a Member opposed each the language that threatens a shut- tleman from Missouri (Mr. TALENT) will control 1 hour. had been postponed and the bill was The Chair recognizes the gentleman down of the Census. Second, it provides that the Bureau open from page 38, line 4 through page from West Virginia (Mr. MOLLOHAN). proceed to prepare for the 2000 Census 115, line 8. Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I on a dual track, preparing for both a Pursuant to the order of the House of yield myself such time as I may con- sampling and a nonsampling census that day, no further amendment to this sume. until the Supreme Court disposes of portion of the bill is in order except: Mr. Chairman, the purpose of my the sampling cases currently pending, (1) an amendment by the gentleman amendment is to again focus the cen- whereupon the Census Bureau would be from Kentucky (Mr. ROGERS) related to sus debate on the issues of science and allowed to move forward with a census NOAA for 10 minutes; accuracy and remove, to the extent incorporating sampling unless sam- (2) an amendment by the gentleman possible, the political influences which pling has been declared unconstitu- from Alabama (Mr. CALLAHAN) related have become so overbearing with re- tional by the Supreme Court. to NOAA for 10 minutes; gard to this issue. Finally, and I think most impor- (3) an amendment by the gentleman The bill before us today would seri- tantly in some ways, this amendment from Alabama (Mr. CALLAHAN) related ously jeopardize the 2000 census. The enlists experts rather than politicians to a general provision regarding fish- good news is that the bill provides $107 to help resolve the technical and sta- eries for 20 minutes; million more for census preparation tistical issues involved by asking the (4) an amendment by the gentleman than the President requested. The bad National Academy of Sciences to be- from Maryland (Mr. GILCHREST) to news is that what the bill gives with come involved. strike section 210 for 15 minutes; one hand, it takes away with the other. It is important to note, and let me (5) an amendment by the gentleman How? emphasize, that as we stand here today from Florida (Mr. STEARNS) relating to First, it cuts off funding for the prep- scientific sampling is both legal and U.N. arrears for 15 minutes; and aration of the 2000 census in the middle authorized by Congress. Therefore, my (6) an amendment by the gentleman of the fiscal year, and any expenditure amendment does provide that the cur- from West Virginia (Mr. MOLLOHAN) re- thereafter would be dependent upon rent Census Bureau sampling plan will garding the census for 2 hours. passage of additional legislation. This move forward unless the Supreme AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. MOLLOHAN language could cause a sudden shut- Court specifically rules that sampling Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I down of census preparations with irre- is unconstitutional. If the Supreme offer an amendment. versible consequences, in the not un- Court finds that sampling is allowable The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- likely event that Congress and the under the Constitution or does not ignate the amendment. President are unable to agree on the make a clear determination, then sam- The text of the amendment is as fol- terms of that subsequent legislation. pling will be allowed to proceed and lows: Second, the reason this bill takes funding will be cut off for the dual Amendment printed in House Report 105– away from the census is it only allows track. 641 offered by Mr. MOLLOHAN: for half of the funds to be spent till the Mr. Chairman, I feel that my amend- Page 45, strike lines 9 through 19 and insert cutoff period. By dividing the appro- ment represents a compromise that all the following: Provided, That the Bureau of priation in half, the majority with- parties should be able to support. the Census may use funds appropriated in holds funds which must be obligated There are three main arguments used this Act to continue to plan, test, and pre- during the first 6 months of the fiscal in opposition to scientific sampling in pare to implement a 2000 decennial census year. In fact, the Census Bureau needs the Census. My amendment sincerely that uses statistical sampling methods to to obligate about $644 million of the attempts to adequately address all improve the accuracy of the enumeration, consistent with the recommendations of the $952 million appropriation during that three. National Academy of Sciences made in re- first half time period. This creates a In their first argument opponents of sponse to Public Law 102–135, unless the Su- shortfall of about $169 million. sampling cite the Constitution. They preme Court of the United States rules that Why has the Republican majority assert that the Constitution requires these methods are contrary to the Constitu- proposed such a disruptive funding an actual head count of the population. tion of the United States or title 13 of the scheme? At the heart of this matter is I disagree. In fact, separate opinions United States Code: Provided further, That a major dispute over the use of a popu- issued by the Department of Justice the Bureau of the Census shall also continue lation counting technique commonly under President Carter, President Bush to plan, test, and become prepared to imple- referred to as ‘‘scientific statistical and President Clinton all concluded ment a 2000 decennial census without using that the Constitution permits the use statistical methods, in accordance with the sampling’’ which is a method rec- first sentence of section 209(j) of Public Law ommended by the National Academy of of scientific sampling and statistical 105–119, until the Supreme Court has issued Sciences. methods as a part of the Census. But whatever my opinion, whatever the decisions in or otherwise disposed of all cases b 1030 brought pursuant to section 209(b) of Public opinion of Justice Department offi- Law 105–119 and pending as of July 15, 1998 It has been adopted by the Census cials, and whatever the opinion of my (or the time for appealing such cases to the Bureau because it would guarantee Republican colleagues, this issue is Supreme Court has expired), and shall con- that the 4 million people who were not now before the courts, and my amend- tinue such preparations beyond that date counted in the 1990 Census, of which 50 ment provides for the courts to decide only if the Supreme Court has held statis- percent were children, would be count- tical sampling methods to be contrary to the whether we can go forward with sam- Constitution or such title 13: Provided fur- ed in the 2000 Census. It is opposed by pling in the Census. We should all be ther, That the National Academy of Sciences the Republican majority because of able to agree on that. is requested to review the current plans of their belief that including these under- In the second argument opponents of the Bureau of the Census to conduct the de- counted groups will somehow disadvan- sampling say that it is bad science. I H7186 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 simply defer to the experts on this of the Constitution and a goal which what the President requested in order matter: The National Academy of every nonbiased expert who has spoken to have the staff and resources that the Sciences, the American Statistical As- on the matter says can best be Bureau later admitted it needed to be sociation, the Council of Professional achieved in the modern era through the fully prepared regardless of which Associations on Federal Statistics, the use of scientific sampling. method they eventually settled upon. National Association of Business Mr. Chairman, I urge my colleagues So, we gave them more money than Economists, just to name a few profes- to vote for my amendment. they asked for so they can prepare for sional organizations that have all en- Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance both practices. We allow the first half dorsed the use of scientific sampling in of my time. of the money in the bill, $475 million, the 2000 Census. To ensure that the sci- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in to be spent immediately so that nec- entific community stays involved in opposition to the amendment offered essary census preparations can con- this process my amendment asks the by the gentleman from West Virginia tinue through March 31, 1999. This is National Academy of Sciences to take (Mr. MOLLOHAN). pursuant to the agreement the Presi- yet another look at the Census Bu- The CHAIRMAN. For purposes of dent asked us to do. reau’s plans and to recertify that they controlling time, the gentleman from Second, we provide the second half of are indeed the best way to achieve an Kentucky is recognized for 60 minutes. the money, $475 million, once a final accurate 2000 Census. Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield decision on a counting method is In the third argument, Mr. Chair- myself 9 minutes. agreed to by the Congress and the ad- man, opponents of sampling say that Mr. Chairman, let me start by re- ministration as they agreed last year the Commerce Department will politi- minding the Members what this bill to do. cize the results of the Census. Well, I does with respect to the decennial cen- To ensure that the Congress and the do not share this view. Its nature sus and why. administration reach an agreement the makes it impossible to refute through Last year on this bill the Congress bill requires the following: fact or expert opinion. But this concern and the White House agreed to disagree By March 15, 1999, the President must was addressed last year with the cre- on whether the census would be con- request the funds that he needs to be ation of the Census Monitoring Board. ducted using a hard count or using an released and must tell Congress how This entity is already in place and will untested and legally questionable much the census at that time will cost, be the eyes and ears of Congress as method known as sampling. My col- after we have heard the court, hope- plans for the Census move forward. league always refers to it as scientific fully, after we have heard the monitor- In addition, I do not know of any bet- sampling. It is sort of like a toothpaste ing board, hopefully, and after the ter way to create confidence in the or patent medicine, scientifically prov- dress rehearsals in three cities around methodology that we are going to use en to prevent cavities and so forth, all the country have been completed. to conduct the 2000 Census than by an this scientific sampling, as we hear. The Congress must enact, and the active involvement of the National So there is a temporary agreement President must sign, a bill to release Academy of Sciences which is provided between the President and the Speaker the money, and the bill states that for in my amendment. Certainly we of the House, and what did it say? The Congress shall act on the President’s can all agree that the reputation of the agreement said, ‘‘We will hold off on a request by March 31. We bind ourselves. National Academy of Sciences is such final decision on whether or not to use Submit the request to us by March 15, that the great majority of fair minded sampling until the spring of 1999.’’ At 1999, we guarantee we will act on that people would accept their opinion on a that time it was agreed that Congress request 2 weeks later, by March 31, and matter such as this. and the White House would elect the off we go doing the census. Mr. Chairman, having addressed the method of counting in time for the We have done everything in this bill three most expressed concerns against Census Bureau to finish its final plans we can, Mr. Chairman, to facilitate, to sampling, only one remains: fear, fear for the Year 2000 count. live up to the agreement the President that using sampling will affect the po- What did we agree would occur in the asked us to do last year. It is all there, litical makeup of the United States meantime? One, we agreed to test each plus some. House of Representatives. Well, we method using dress rehearsals in three The Mollohan amendment on the must be careful in ascribing motives to cities this year; it is going on right other hand would strike the very provi- people for their actions. In this case, now. Two, the parties on each side sions in the bill that the President the Republican concern about the con- would have the opportunity to test the asked us to put in the bill last year and sequences of an accurate census is well legality and constitutionality of sam- instead gives the administration com- understood. As an example, be sure to pling in the federal courts in an expe- plete authority over how the Census is read any one of the following edi- dited fashion. The Supreme Court has conducted contrary to the Constitution torials: never ruled on this question, and those and the Federal statutes which give The Christian Science Monitor dated cases, by the way, are now going on. the Congress control over how the cen- April 28, 1998; the Buffalo News, June Three, we would appoint a bipartisan sus is conducted. 15, 1998; Newsday, June 16, 1997, or the census monitoring board to oversee all Neither his amendment, nor the ad- Houston Chronicle, June 4, 1998, and aspects of the decennial census, as is ministration which now supports it, these are just a few examples of a long being planned and carried out. That seeks to live up to the agreement of list of editorials that all endorse the monitoring board now is in session, is last year. They are abandoning the use of scientific sampling as the way to meeting regularly. agreement the President solemnly count that 1.6 percent of our popu- That, in essence, was the agreement, committed to last year. In fact, the ad- lation, those 4 million people who were the President and the Speaker: Let us ministration supports something far not counted in 1990, and each editorial have a cooling-off period, let us pro- more destructive than the amendment in its own way criticizes the Repub- ceed with plans to use both methods, the gentleman from West Virginia is lican majority for its political motives let us let the courts rule as they may advocating, advocating a complete cut- for opposing sampling. with a D-Day of next spring to make off of funds for every other agency in To the extent that anyone is oppos- the final decision when hopefully all this bill next spring until we agree to ing sampling because of potential po- three of those conditions would have use sampling, as he wants to in the litical consequences I would only say matured. Census. that such motives are truly unworthy So what does the bill do that we Yes, this President says: and misplaced in the world’s greatest drafted? ‘‘Oh no, don’t give us half the money democracy which absolutely requires My colleagues, it simply implements for the Census and fund all the other fair representation for all of its con- the agreement the President wanted us agencies in this bill all the whole year. stituent groups. Well, Mr. Chairman, to do. We provide a total of $956 million Cut off all the agencies along with the that can only be achieved through the to fund preparations for the Census. Census in March,’’ the President says, most accurate census possible, a prin- That is $566 million over current spend- ‘‘and let’s shut down the Drug Enforce- ciple clearly understood by the framers ing. We added $107 million on top of ment Administration, let’s shut down August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7187 the FBI and the War on Drugs and the In fact, the title of the GAO report York (Mrs. MALONEY), ranking Demo- War on Crime, let’s shut down the says it all: ‘‘Preparations for the Dress crat on the Committee on Government State Department around the world Rehearsal Leave Many Unanswered Reform and Oversight, who has worked and all of the sensitive things that are Questions.’’ That is what GAO titles incredibly hard on this issue. She has going on around the world in America’s their report. Maybe that is why the ad- been at the forefront of ensuring that national security interests.’’ ministration no longer wants to wait we have a fair 2000 Census. b 1045 until next spring to work with the Con- Mrs. MALONEY of New York. I gress on a final decision. thank the gentleman for yielding time ‘‘Let us shut down the Federal Or maybe it is because the adminis- to me, Mr. Chairman, and congratulate courts, the Supreme Court, all the way tration is afraid the courts will rule him on his outstanding leadership on through to the U.S. Marshal’s Office. sampling to be illegal or unconstitu- this job. Shut them all down,’’ he says. ‘‘Let us tional. That would explain why the Ad- Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the shut down the Commerce Department. ministration’s own lawyers have been Mollohan amendment, which will fully Let us shut down the National Weather fighting vigorously in Federal court to fund the Census 2000 so that they can Service. Let us shut down all of the in- get the pending lawsuits thrown out on merely get the job done. We should let stitutions in the Commerce Depart- procedural grounds, so that the courts the Census Bureau be the Census Bu- ment, the NOAA, the Small Business will not rule on the merits of this issue reau, and the Republican majority Administration, all of the agencies in time for next spring’s decision. should stop interfering with the Census that help Americans live a better life.’’ Mr. Chairman, I tell my colleagues, Bureau doing their job. The Nation The President says, ‘‘Let us shut make no mistake about it, if the Mol- needs an accurate count of our popu- them all down so that I can have my lohan amendment is adopted, the very lation, one that includes everyone. way on sampling in the census.’’ He success of the 2000 Census is in jeop- In 1990 the Census missed 8.4 million says, ‘‘Trust me. Trust me, just as you ardy for the first time in America’s people. one in 10 black males, one in 10 trusted me with the FBI files, and I pil- history. If the Mollohan amendment is Hispanics, and one in 20 Asians was fered through them. Trust me on this.’’ adopted, the Congress will have no say missed. Conducting a fair and accurate He says, ‘‘Trust me, even though we in the conduct of the census, contrary Census has become the civil rights may have naturalized tens of thou- to the Constitution. issue of the nineties. The Census Bu- sands of felons so they could vote in We will not get to make a decision reau is working to implement a plan the election of 1996. We gave away based on the dress rehearsal results or that is inclusive. It is modern, cost-ef- America’s most precious gift, Amer- the reports from the bipartisan, inde- fective, and comprehensive, and it will ican citizenship, for the vote, but trust pendent Census Monitoring Board. We eliminate the undercount. me.’’ That is what this amendment will not get to make a decision based The House leadership will say that would do, Mr. Chairman. on the court rulings. In fact, we will the 1990 Census was not so bad. They Could it be that the administration is not make a decision at all. Instead, the say that missing 8.4 million people and afraid that this radical plan for polling Mollohan amendment asks us to trust counting 4.5 million people twice was instead of counting in the 2000 Census, the Clinton White House; defer to the okay by them. They will tell us that that he knows it cannot be held up to same Clinton administration which pil- everyone will be counted if they just do public or Congressional scrutiny? I can fered through the FBI confidential more counting. certainly see where they might be files, which naturalized thousands of However, the truth is, the old meth- nervous, given that the last attempt felons so they could vote; the most in- ods just do not work anymore. They they had to use statistical sampling in vestigated administration in the his- will tell us that the Census plan is un- the 1990 census was an absolute failure. tory of the country; they say, trust us constitutional and illegal, but the In the 1990 census the experts in 1990 again. truth is, every court that has ruled on pushed to statistically manipulate the Mr. Chairman, there is an old saying the use of statistical methods in the statistical count. The Secretary of back in Kentucky, ‘‘There ain’t no edu- Census has found them both legal and Commerce refused, because he thought cation in the second kick of the mule.’’ constitutional. They will tell us that it might be wrong. Guess who was We have learned a bit about this White the Census plan is subject to political right? Ask the people of Pennsylvania, House. ‘‘Trust us,’’ they say. We say, manipulation. The truth is that real for example, who would have lost a ‘‘Okay, we will trust you, but we are manipulation is doing nothing about congressman in this House if the ex- going to verify. We are going to verify the undercount. perts had prevailed last time, as they with an actual count. We do not trust They will tell us that this is Presi- want to do this time. you to guess on the numbers of people dent Clinton’s plan, but the truth is To be fair, the administration and in the country for the purposes of de- that Congress ordered this plan and the experts assure us that this time it ciding who can represent us in this President George Bush signed it into will be different, just trust us. They Congress.’’ That is all we are saying. law, a mandate that the National say that the bugs have been removed They may sample if they will on the Academy of Sciences come up with a from statistical sampling. Not so, says number of people with blue eyes, but plan to correct the undercount. This the GAO, and the Commerce Depart- actually count the people when it plan is supported by every major sta- ment’s own Inspector General, in fact, comes to making up this body that rep- tistical organization. both have said that every major com- resents all the American people for all The House leadership will tell us that ponent of the Census Bureau’s 2000 cen- that is in the Constitution. the plan is partisan. However, the sus plan is at risk for quality problems The American people have a right to truth is that nonpartisan editorial and cost and growth. expect that this Congress will ensure boards across this country, the New Even more disturbing, they both the integrity of the very process that York Times, the L.A. Times, the Wash- raise serious questions about how the determines the nature of their rep- ington Post, have all endorsed the use Census Bureau plans to use a statis- resentation in the House. of modern statistical methods in the tical manipulation of the census count. For that reason, Mr. Chairman, I year 2000 Census. The IG says it is long, complex, and op- urge the House to live up to the agree- Guess who does not support modern erating under such a tight time sched- ment we reached with the White House. statistical methods: the Republican ule that there will be many opportuni- I urge the White House to live up to National Committee. The Republican ties for operational and statistical er- the agreement they reached with us, leadership should not be afraid of rors. and vote down the Mollohan amend- counting blacks, Hispanics, and Asians. The GAO said ‘‘The Bureau has made ment. What they should be afraid of is repeat- several misssteps in drawing the statis- Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance ing the errors of 1990 while the Nation’s tical sample because these errors went of my time. minorities look on, knowing those mis- undetected until relatively late. GAO Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I am takes could have been prevented, is concerned about the Bureau’s ability pleased to yield 3 minutes to the dis- knowing they were intentionally left to catch and correct problems.’’ tinguished gentlewoman from New out. H7188 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 The year 2000 Census must be about Pennsylvania and shift it to Arizona, That is something that was very suc- policy, not politics. It is the right and take a seat away from the State of cessful in Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Mil- thing to do. It is right for America. I Wisconsin. waukee last year. We need to do it urge my colleagues to support full It also came out that data is less ac- throughout the country this time funding for the Census Bureau. Support curate for a less than 100,000 popu- around. the Mollohan amendment. lation. So for towns and cities all This past week’s newspaper in North- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 7 across America with less than 100,000 ern Virginia, the Hispanic newspaper, minutes to the gentleman from Florida population, it is less accurate, on aver- the cover page talks about the United (Mr. MILLER), the chairman of the Sub- age. So if we are talking about accu- States Census 2000. It is talking about committee on the Census, who happens racy, it is less accurate. how we need to have a partnership, to also be a doctor in statistics and Also, we work with Census tracts, where we need to work together. It is marketing, and taught for the MBA where there are only about 4,000 people talking about Census partnerships: program at his university, who is an in a tract. There is no question it is ‘‘We cannot do it without you.’’ expert on this topic. less accurate when we get down to that b 1100 Mr. MILLER of Florida. Mr. Chair- kind of data. It talks about how there are jobs, man, let me congratulate the chairman What has the President proposed in census jobs, an equal employment op- for his treatment of the Census in this the Clinton Census issue? Instead of portunity employer. We need to work appropriation bill, because what he trying to count everybody, what he together in communities, in the under- proposes is basically that the President only wants to do is count 90 percent of counted areas, and do everything to and Congress, the Democrats and Re- the people. He wants to intentionally concentrate on getting everybody publicans, need to work together next not count 26 or 27 million people. We counted, not creating these statis- spring, when the decision needs to be agree to count everybody, yet the Clin- tically or computer-generated arti- made, and this has to be done in a non- ton plan says, we are not going to facts. partisan fashion. This is not something count 26 million or 27 million people, We also should make use of whatever we can delegate to some hand-picked because what we are going to do is administrative records are available. If panel. This is something we need to have these computer-generated people. necessary, we need to pass legislation. work together on. We are going to have this virtual popu- The WIC program, for example, a moth- The reason that this is so political is lation of 26 million or 27 million peo- er may not want to fill out a form but that the President has proposed a radi- ple. That is what we are talking about, she wants to get formula for her chil- cally different approach, an untested not counting 26 or 27 million, and let- dren. We should do everything we can type idea of using polling, because it is ting the computer come up with these to make records where there is Medic- the way to go. He loves polling. He people by cloning techniques. That is a aid, WIC or what have you available. polls every day. Every decision is made little scary, what we are talking about So what we have is a choice of wheth- based on polling. If it works for him, it doing. er we want a census that can be trust- should work for the Census. This plan, as the gentleman from ed, and working together, or we want Many of the Members on that side Kentucky (Chairman ROGERS) talked to trust only the President to make were in Houston this past June. Let me about, is a very risky plan. There is a that decision. Now the President is quote what the President said about high risk of failure. It is not as accu- threatening to shut down the entire the Census when he talked about poll- rate to conduct this. The purpose of a Commerce, Justice and State Depart- ing and sampling. Most people under- Census is for apportionment of rep- ments over this issue. That is irrespon- stand that a poll taken before an elec- resentatives. sible. This is a President that said it tion is a statistical sample. Sometimes What are we recommending? Let us was terrible to shut down the govern- it is wrong, but more often than not, it improve upon the 1990 model. There is ment back in 1995, is already threaten- is right. The President compares it there are a number of things we can do. ing it today over this issue if he does with polling. This is what we are talk- For example, 50 percent of the mistake not get his way. ing about. in 1990 they say was the mailing list, So it is wrong to try to threaten to The American people are not going to the address list, so we need to do a shut down the government. We should trust polling to do something that we much better job. I commend the Census not allow that to happen. Let us work only do once a decade. The Constitu- Bureau for moving in the direction of together and get the most accurate tion only requires it every 10 years. doing that. In fact, there is $100 million census possible, where we count every- Sampling is very appropriate in be- in additional funding for address list one, everyone counts. This is the plan, full enumeration, and let us do it to- tween the Census, when we take it development. The Census Bureau is gether this spring. every 10 years, but it is too critical an going to go out and verify the address- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I issue to be addressed by polling tech- es. That is exactly what we need to do yield 4 minutes to the distinguished niques at this time. is get a better mailing list. That will gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Let me take a minute to explain the help address 50 percent of the problem WATT). difference in the two proposals, because there. Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. there is confusion. What we propose is We are going to used paid advertis- Chairman, I yield to the gentleman basically improving upon the 1990 ing, instead of using free advertising, from West Virginia (Mr. MOLLOHAN). model, where we counted 98.4 percent as we relied on back in 1990. Instead of Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I of the people. We went out and count- having ads at 2 o’clock in the morning, simply want to point out here that the ed, and enumerated fairly successfully we can run them where it is appro- only shutdown associated with this 98.4 percent of the people. Yes, we did priate to the undercounted population. issue is the shutdown that is contained miss some people. We can target our advertising. in this bill, the shutdown that is Then, the second part was we did a We also should use local people work- threatened by the language which lim- polling sampling technique to try to ing with the Census. The gentlewoman its the appropriation for census to mid- see if we could adjust the numbers for from Florida (Mrs. MEEK) and I are year. That is the only shutdown we are full enumeration based on sampling working on legislation to make it easi- talking about. and polling. That failed. The one at- er, so people can work part-time and The President had an agreement with tempt to use a large sampling model on not lose any Federal Government bene- the Republican majority. That agree- the Census was a failure in 1990. It was fits, to work on the Census. ment was untenable. That agreement is not used. For example, the gentlewoman from not even a part of this debate. I do not When the Census Bureau tried to ad- Florida (Mrs. MEEK) represents a large know why we have even alluded to it. just the data, in fact, they tried to ad- Haitian population. We should have The fact is the only shutdown that just it three different times and never Haitians living in that community we are looking at is the language in got it right. They were wrong. They working on the Census. We need to pro- this bill that would shut down the cen- were going to wrongly take a congres- vide whatever legislation is necessary. sus at midyear next year and that sional seat away from the State of We also need to work with outreach. threatens a viable census. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7189 I think it is important to understand the English people did not throw off This is not the first census debate. It that, that the threat to the 2000 census the yoke of the divine right of kings in is not the first decade in which the is contained in the bill, and the Mollo- order to bow before the divine right of methodology has been called into ques- han amendment would free that up, experts. I think there is some truth in tion. This is not even the first century allow it to be funded for the whole that. in which the census has been con- year. In Congress here we have rules that troversial. Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. we go by procedurally, but the ulti- President Washington was concerned Chairman, I want to address one of the mate rule that we have in Congress is about the results of the first census in legal issues that has been raised by the the Constitution of the United States. 1790 because he thought there was an Republican majority. This is the ultimate rule. Let us just undercount. The gentleman from Colorado (Mr. see what the Constitution says about Let us look at some relevant history SKAGGS) will talk about the constitu- the idea of guessing at how many peo- here rather than sort of a Sesame tional issue, but one of the issues that ple are in the United States. Street reading of words. Article I, section 2 of the Constitu- the majority has raised is that the con- The census has its origin in the Con- tion says: ‘‘The actual enumeration stitutional power of Congress to deter- stitutional Convention. There, Article shall be made within 3 years after the mine how the census will be conducted I, section 2, clause 3 of the Constitu- first meeting of Congress of the United is being somehow undermined by the tion was drafted, and it requires that administration. Of course, nothing States and within every subsequent term of 10 years in such a manner as ‘‘The actual enumeration shall be made could be further from the truth. within 3 years after the first meeting The Constitution, as the gentleman they shall by law direct.’’ Let us look at the definition of what of the Congress and within every subse- from Colorado (Mr. SKAGGS) will point quent term of 10 years, in such manner out, clearly says that the census will ‘‘enumeration’’ is. This is the dictionary that we use as they,’’ referring to Congress, ‘‘shall be taken in such a manner as Congress by law direct.’’ shall by law direct, and the Congress here. To enumerate: to mention sepa- rately, as if in counting; name one by According to our Congressional Re- has passed a law, title 13 of the United search Service, examination of the de- States Code, which governs the way one; specify, as in a list. I think that is pretty clear as to what enumeration bates and documents of that Constitu- the census will be taken. And that tional Convention show that earlier title, section 141, says that the Sec- stands for. Also in the Constitution it refers to reference to a ‘‘census’’ was dropped retary of Commerce shall take a census the census. Article XIV of the 14th and ‘‘enumeration’’ was used instead, of population in such form and content Amendment, section 2, very clearly but there is no suggestion that that as he may determine, including the use says, ‘‘Representatives shall be appor- was intended to reflect any change in of sampling procedures and statistical tioned among the several States ac- meaning. surveys. The Republicans seem to have a dif- cording to their respective numbers, The significance of the term ‘‘actual ferent interpretation of that. But counting the whole number of persons enumeration’’ may be discovered from clearly, the statute that is on the in each State, excluding Indians not its context. The same clause of the books allows, directs the administra- taxed.’’ Constitution goes on to provide for Okay. If there is any question as to tion and the census body to take this specified numbers of Members from what that means, I think we can also census with the use of statistical sam- each of the original 13 States ‘‘until take the dictionary and look at what it pling. They seem to think that that is such enumeration shall be made.’’ It is to count. To count: to check over, unconstitutional, and that case is seems clear therefore that the term one by one, to determine the total going up to the Supreme Court. But ‘‘actual enumeration’’ was intended to number; add up; enumerate. distinguish between the rough several courts have held it constitu- When we were elected or sworn in to tional and as long as the law is on the reckonings of the then-current popu- this Congress, we stood here and raised lations of the original colonies that in- books, that is the law that we are obli- our hands that we would uphold the gated to follow and comply with. That formed the size of the first House pre- Constitution of the United States. I do scribed in clause 3 and the later need is what we are doing. not think that there is really a ques- That is why we are here today, trying for a real count. tion as to what the Founding Fathers The Supreme Court has never deter- to debate this issue on an appropria- said. It is very clear. It is defined by tions bill, rather than trying to attack mined whether the requirement of an Webster exactly what the words are. ‘‘actual enumeration’’ precludes sam- this frontally. We have got a law on Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, will the books that everybody is trying to pling or other adjustment, or whether the gentleman yield? it simply contemplates achieving the follow. They have no capacity to repeal Mr. LATHAM. I yield to the gen- the law so they are trying to do by in- most accurate count of the population tleman from West Virginia. by whatever method. direction what they cannot accomplish Mr. MOLLOHAN. Indeed, the gen- As recently as 1996, however, in the directly. tleman has referenced the source, the case of Wisconsin versus New York, the The language in the statute clearly dictionary. Has the gentleman ref- court came very close. There, relying allows, one would argue mandates, the erenced any court decisions on the sub- on the constitutional phrase ‘‘in such use of statistical sampling. And the Re- ject? publican majority is trying to under- Mr. Chairman, the real meaning of manner as they shall by law direct,’’ mine that because they cannot pass a the Constitution is defined through our the court held that ‘‘the text of the law that repeals that law. They are court process, through the appeal proc- Constitution vests Congress with vir- trying to do this indirectly. We should ess. And every court decision on the tually unlimited discretion in conduct- not allow them to do this. We should subject has ruled sampling constitu- ing the decennial ‘actual enumera- pass the Mollohan amendment and tional, with all due respect to the gen- tion.’ ’’ move on with the census as the law tleman’s dictionary interpretation. The lower courts that have addressed now currently authorizes us to do. Mr. LATHAM. That simply is not the the issue all have concluded that the Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 case. I think anyone who is sworn to requirement of an ‘‘actual enumera- minutes to the gentleman from Iowa uphold the Constitution should maybe tion’’ means an accurate count, and (Mr. LATHAM), a very able and hard- read it. that sampling is consistent with the working member of the subcommittee. Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, on Constitution if its purpose and its ef- Mr. LATHAM. Mr. Chairman, I thank point, I yield 4 minutes to the distin- fect is to improve accuracy. the gentleman for yielding me the guished gentleman from Colorado (Mr. For example, in the 1990 ruling, the time. SKAGGS), a member of our subcommit- U.S. District Court in New York con- I rise in strong opposition to this tee. cluded ‘‘that because Article I, section amendment from the gentleman from Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, I thank 2 requires the census to be as accurate West Virginia. Former Prime Minister the gentleman for yielding me the time as possible, the Constitution is not a Harold MacMillan once remarked that and for his leadership on this issue. bar to statistical adjustment.’’ H7190 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 A decade earlier, the Sixth Circuit and be able to document Census Bureau or- down, that was back in 1996, the Presi- determined that ‘‘although the Con- ganizational problems in putting this so-called dent has threatened to shut down the stitution prohibits subterfuge in ad- plan into effect? Commerce Department, the Justice De- justment of census figures for purposes We should not do this, Mr. Chairman, In- partment and the State Department in of redistricting, it does not constrain stead, we should do our duty. We should give order to implement his administra- adjustment of census figures if thor- the Census Bureau the tools it needs to do its tion’s plan. However, we should not oughly documented and applied in a job rightÐwe should give the funds and the support political threats with bad pol- systematic manner.’’ flexibility to produce the best, most accurate icy. So there can be no real question count possible. Congress and the administration about the constitutionality of using Pass the Mollahan amendment. must work together to create a plan sampling to improve the accuracy of Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 that the American people will trust. the actual enumeration. It is for us to minutes and 30 seconds to the gen- We must listen to the warnings, as the decide ‘‘in what manner’’ we ‘‘shall by tleman from Michigan (Mr. KNOLLEN- chairman has pointed out, of the GAO law direct.’’ BERG), a member of the committee. and the Inspector General and create a As the gentleman from North Caro- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I bilateral plan with the administration lina (Mr. WATT) has pointed out, we yield 15 seconds to the gentleman from that will accurately represent the have done that. The census statute al- Michigan (Mr. KNOLLENBERG). American people. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman ready contemplates the use of sampling Mr. Chairman, I firmly suggest we from Michigan (Mr. KNOLLENBERG) is and adjustment in order to improve ac- oppose this amendment. curacy. That is what this is all about. recognized for 3 minutes and 45 sec- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, will We should pass the Mollohan amend- onds. the gentleman yield? Mr. KNOLLENBERG. Mr. Chairman, ment. Mr. KNOLLENBERG. I yield to the I thank the gentleman for yielding me Aside from the constitutional question, his- gentleman from West Virginia. the time. Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, the tory shows us that the level of controversy I rise today in opposition to this gentleman talked about the President around the census waxes and wanes as a re- amendment. While I have worked with saying how we are going to conduct the sult of larger, social and demographic shifts my distinguished colleague from West census, and then he said that it is the and the political pain associated with adjusting Virginia and found common ground on Congress’ job to do that. I totally agree to those changes. For example, the census some significant issues, I must disagree it is the Congress’ job to do that, and was controversial and prone to political manip- with him on this issue because, based we have defined in 13 USC section 141, ulation in the decades before and after the on solid numerical evidence which is in pertinent part, the Congress, in this civil war, when there were issues about count- against sampling, and the Census Bu- law, has given the Secretary of Com- ing African Americans. reau’s own research after the 1990 Cen- Population counts again became controver- merce the responsibility to conduct a sus Bureau enumeration surveys, sam- sial in the 1920's, when census figures ‘‘decennial census in such form and pling did not work in the 1990 census showed more people living in cities than in content as he may determine, includ- post-enumeration surveys, so why rural areas for the first time. In fact, those re- ing the use of sampling procedures and would we expect a similar plan to work sults were so alarming to the party in power special surveys.’’ for the 2000 census? at the time that they simply ignored the cen- Mr. KNOLLENBERG. Reclaiming my sus and delayed reapportioning the House. b 1115 time, Mr. Chairman, sampling simply In short, Mr. Chairman, while this may not Merely increasing the sample size does not produce the accuracy, as has be quite deja vu all over again it's certainly not will not improve the accuracy of the been pointed out. So I would say to the unprecedentedÐand it's not hard to figure out survey, it will only increase the possi- gentleman that it is not a substitute. what's going on. Some of the changes in our bility of error. Sampling is not a substitute for accu- country's demographics are uncomfortable for The Census Bureau’s own 1992 CAPE racy. those defending certain conservative interests report, Committee on Adjustment of Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, will the here. Postcensal Estimates, indicated that gentleman yield? It's projected that by the year 2020, hispanic after the second post enumeration sur- Mr. KNOLLENBERG. I yield to the and African American populations will grow to vey, using the improved so-called gentleman from Kentucky. represent 30% of our total populace. Current grouping method, that sampling was Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, does census methodology takes us further and fur- inaccurate for areas under 100,000. the gentleman also know that the Fed- ther from getting an accurate count of these Many of us have districts with no sin- eral statute says, ‘‘Except for the de- populations. This is not news. The problem gle area over 100,000. How can we mis- termination of population for purposes has been known for decades. Yet when meth- represent such a large percentage of of apportionment of Representatives in ods are proposed to get a more accurate our population? Furthermore, Mr. Congress among the several States, the count of minorities, some try to delay or pre- Chairman, the Secretary of Commerce Secretary shall, if he considers it fea- vent a better count for fear of losing political concluded in 1991, that while 29 States sible, authorize the use of the statis- power. would benefit from adjusted counts, 21 tical method known as ‘sampling’?’’ This year, Republicans are replaying this would be less accurate, or lose popu- but otherwise prohibited. ‘‘Except for political battle in a way that is guaranteed not lation. the apportionment of the House’’ is in just to undermine progressive census reforms, We cannot support a plan that is the Federal statute passed by the U.S. but in a way that's likely to undermine the cen- good for some and not for others. Be- Congress. sus itself. They have misguidedly decided to cause these numbers are used for ap- Is the gentleman aware of this stat- require an overworked group of folks over at portionment, failing to ensure equal ute? the Census Bureau to plan for not just one but representation is a serious threat to Mr. KNOLLENBERG. I am. for two means of collecting population data. our democracy. Enumerate, not poll- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I And then they want to cut off the Bureau's ing, not computer models. Sampling yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from funds in the middle of the year, calling for a does not equal accuracy. Ohio (Mr. SAWYER), who has been such political decision at that time. Not only is sampling numerically un- a leader on this issue, again ensuring Let me restate this crucial point: the majority reliable, it is inconsistent, as has been that the 2000 census is a fair one. party in Congress is saying that they middle of pointed out by my friend from Iowa, Mr. SAWYER. Mr. Chairman, we the most critical census-planning year, 1999, with the Constitution, which does re- learned a great deal from the 1990 cen- the Census Bureau has to lurch along with quire actual enumeration. Nowhere in sus, but one thing was crystal clear: half steps rather than do any full-year planning the Constitution does it state that the Our changing Nation had outgrown for a $4 billion, half-million-person project. President has a right to decide how the past counting techniques and the tradi- Would any CEO of any business agree to census should be directed, which is tional censuses are full of mistakes. take on a critical project under these terms? If what he is trying to do. The idea that traditional counting this bill passes in its current form, does any- And despite his statement that it was techniques are more accurate is simply one doubt that Republicans next year will find deeply wrong to shut the government a myth, and the longer the door-to- August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7191 door counting process goes on, the come to grips with the techniques nec- of Mr. Miller of Florida concerning the more the mistakes are made. essary to make a count of our Nation ‘‘hand-picked’’ nature of the scientific panels More than 11 percent of the informa- accurate and, most importantly, fair. that have recommended consideration of sta- tion collected door-to-door in 1990 was tistical sampling methods. I refer specifi- NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, cally to the Blue Ribbon Panel of the Amer- wrong. Of the 4.6 million people col- OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT, ican Statistical Association. The members of lected based on information from Washington, DC, August 4, 1998. this panel are recognized by their peers as neighbors or building managers, over Hon. THOMAS C. SAWYER, among the nation’s leading experts on sam- one-third, 38 percent, was wrong. Near- House of Representatives, pling large human populations. They are cer- ly 20 percent of the traditional subse- Longworth HOB, Washington, DC. tainly not identified with any political inter- DEAR CONGRESSMAN SAWYER: As you re- est. quent coverage programs was wrong. A quested, I am providing information on stud- half million people added based on ad- The ASA Blue Ribbon Panel included ies of the national census that have been Janet Norwood, who served three adminis- ministrative records, 53 percent were conducted by the National Research Council, trations as Commissioner of Labor Statistics wrong. which is the operating arm of the National from 1979 to 1991. On her retirement, the New These are traditional counting tech- Academy of Sciences and the National Acad- York Times (December 31, 1991) spoke of her niques. Information collected in May emy of Engineering. Three different Acad- ‘‘near-legendary reputation for nonpartisan- was wrong, 6.6 percent of the time. By emy panels have examined the issue of the ship.’’ Dr. Norwood is a past president of June, it had doubled to 13.8. By July, it use of statistical sampling in the census. All ASA, as is Dr. Neter of the University of was 18.8. And from August onward, three distinguished panels, chaired by three Georgia, another panel member. Like these, different individuals, have reached the con- the other members of the panel have been re- nearly 30 percent were counted wrong. clusion that the accuracy of the census peatedly elected by their peers to posts of Because of all these mistakes, census count can be improved by supplementing tra- professional responsibility. For example, Dr. numbers at the block level were off by ditional enumeration with statistical esti- Rubin of Harvard University is currently 10 to 20 percent. So let us not pretend mates of the number and characteristics of chair of ASA’s Section on Survey Research that a census without scientific meth- those not directly enumerated. The member- Methods, the statistical specialty directly ods is in any way an improvement. ship of these committees is attached. relevant to the census proposals. I assure We knew that in 1991, and so I joined I would also like to emphasize the process you that this panel was selected solely on with two of my distinguished Repub- that the Academy uses in the conduct of the basis of their widely recognized scientific studies. Since 1863, the Academy’s most val- expertise. Their judgment that ‘‘sampling lican colleagues in asking the National uable contribution to the Federal Govern- has the potential to increase the quality and Academy of Sciences to review census ment and the public has been to provide un- accuracy of the count and to reduce costs’’ is methods and recommend ways to im- biased, high-quality scientific advice on con- authoritative. prove accuracy. One of those col- troversial, complex issues. The process by Mr. Miller, in hearings before his commit- leagues, the gentleman from Kentucky which the Academy conducts its work en- tee, has indeed produced reputable academ- (Mr. ROGERS), testified eloquently. Of sures its independence from potential out- ics who disagree with the findings of the the 1990 census, he asked, ‘‘Were the side influences and political pressures from ASA Blue Ribbon Panel and the several Na- tional Research Council panels which re- methods for counting our population, government officials, lobbying groups, or others. Committee appointments are made ported similar conclusions. Those whose while learning more about it, out- by the President of the Academy following names I have seen lack the expertise and ex- moded? In light of existing sampling careful review of the nominees by many ex- perience in sampling that characterize the techniques, I think they were,’’ he con- perts in the field of study. Committee mem- panel members. Statistics, like medicine, cluded. What we needed, he said, was bers are nationally-recognized experts in has specialties: one does not seek out a proc- an independent review of the census to their fields, and they serve without com- tologist for heart bypass surgery. I do wish to make it clear that the Amer- determine how to meet our data needs, pensation. The Academy balances the mem- bership of each committee to ensure that the ican Statistical Association takes no posi- in his words, ‘‘in an accurate and cost tion on the political or constitutional issues effective way.’’ He said that the Na- study is carried out in an objective and unbi- ased manner with conclusions based solely surrounding the census. We also express no tional Academy was ‘‘credible, experi- on the scientific evidence. Moreover, the opinion on details of the specific proposals enced and, more importantly, inde- committee’s draft report is reviewed by a set put forth by the Census Bureau for employ- pendent.’’ of independent reviewers, revised based on an ing statistical sampling. As the nation’s pri- I agreed with him then, and I urge all evaluation of the reviewers’ comments, and mary professional association of statisti- of us to carefully consider the decision released in final form only after meeting the cians and users of statistics, we wish to standards of quality and objectivity set by make only two points in this continuing de- we are making now. It comes down to bate: this: Will we take a census in 2000, the Academy. We can assure you that the Academy’s Estimation based on statistical sampling is using methods recommended by those a valid and widely-used scientific method. studies of the census have followed these tra- The general attacks on sampling that the ‘‘credible, experienced and independent ditional procedures to ensure high-quality census debate has called forth from some experts’’ that the gentleman from Ken- and objective scientific advice independent tucky recommended in 1991, or will we quarters are uninformed and unjustified. of political influence. We hope that our ad- The non-partisan professional status of settle again for methods that he called vice is helpful for decision-makers as they government statistical offices is a national ‘‘outmoded and dusty’’? grapple with the complex issues concerning asset that should be carefully guarded. We The gentleman from Kentucky was the conduct of the next census. depend on the statistical professionals in right in 1991 when he said that, ‘‘It has Sincerely, these offices for information widely used in become increasingly clear that we can- BRUCE ALBERTS, both government and private sector deci- President, NAS; Chairman, NRC. not repeat last year’s decennial census sions. Attacks on these offices as ‘‘politi- cized’’ damage public confidence in vital process 9 years from now.’’ The Mollo- AMERICAN STATISTICAL ASSOCIATION, han amendment preserves the chance data. Alexandria, VA, August 3, 1998. Thank you for the opportunity to make to take a more accurate and fair census Congressman THOMAS SAWYER, these comments. in 2000. If we reject it out of hand Longworth House Office Building, Sincerely yours, today, we are headed for a repeat of Washington, DC. DAVID S. MOORE, 1990, and that would be tragic: A use of DEAR CONGRESSMAN SAWYER: Thank you President, American Statistical Association. counting techniques that have been for sending me the Congressional Record ac- count of debate on H. Res. 508, containing Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 demonstrated to be clearly inaccurate. the remarks of several Members regarding minutes to the gentleman from Kansas The census has changed dozens and the use of statistical sampling methods in (Mr. SNOWBARGER). dozens of times over the course of its the 2000 Census. Despite obvious differences Mr. SNOWBARGER. Mr. Chairman, I 210-year history. As the Nation has in perspective, the discussion is thoughtful thank the chairman for yielding me changed, our ability and techniques for and well-informed, the sole major exception this time. measuring ourselves has changed with being the incorrect statement by Mr. Miller I want to come at this in a little dif- it. It is critically important to recog- of California that the Census Bureau plans to ferent approach. In 1992, I was the user nize that in a time of change, such as intentionally not count 10 percent of the of census products in the reapportion- population. The overall level of the discus- the one we are in now, we need to come sion does credit to the House of Representa- ment in our State legislature in Kan- to grips with that change. It has never tives. sas. We have talked about an accuracy been more important to understand I do wish to respond on behalf of the Amer- rate back in 1990 of 98.4 percent. I think that change, to measure it, and to ican Statistical Association to the remarks that is pretty significant. H7192 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 What people need to understand is addition, 342,095 of California’s children not know. Hispanic, 22 percent approve, that when you are using this census were missed altogether by the last cen- 62 percent disapprove, 15 percent do not today to develop districts, we are look- sus. know. ing on a block-by-block basis. We take In the last census the monies allo- We can see the results. one block, add it to another block, we cated for schools, school lunches, Head b 1130 aggregate those blocks together and, Start, senior citizens centers, health sooner or later, we have a Representa- care facilities, and transportation The bottom line is all groups in soci- tive district or a Senate district or never reached the communities where ety, over 50 percent, disapprove. If the even a Congressional District. Right people were not counted. Simply put, if Clinton administration likes polling, if now, by the census’s own numbers, the individuals were not counted in the they believe polling, he ought to listen accuracy rate at the block level is plus last census, they did not receive their to the people. This is an updated, re- or minus 35 percent. Thirty-five per- fair share of Federal fundings for pub- cent poll. cent. lic services. I urge my colleagues to defeat the It has been mentioned here several We have a chance to correct the er- Mollohan amendment. times this morning that sampling is in- rors of the past census by employing Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I accurate at the town and local level. modern techniques that have been yield 2 minutes to the gentlewoman Even the Census Bureau reports that proven to be efficient and cost effec- from North Carolina (Mrs. CLAYTON). sampling counts are less accurate than tive. It is illogical for this body to pro- Mrs. CLAYTON. Mr. Chairman, I an actual head count. It is inaccurate fess to be a democratic institution but, thank the gentleman for yielding. Mr. Chairman, I am amazed that my because of this polling scheme. Small at the same time, refuse to adequately Republican colleagues are saying it is towns, including the majority of Kan- fund a census which employs a method the President and the administration sas, are going to be at risk, and that is which counts everyone. It seems the who are politicizing the census. That is a fact. right wing faction of the party would not true. But do not take my word for The Census Bureau’s own studies prefer to have no census rather than it. prove this. The 1991 Undercount Steer- have an accurate census. I would like to borrow some of the ing Committee said, ‘‘It is understood The Mollohan amendment is a rea- words from editorials published all that for smaller areas, those with less sonable one. It would restore the full across this Nation which make it crys- than 100,000 population, proportion- funding to the Census Bureau so that it tal clear who is interjecting politics ately more units would have less accu- may do its job without interruption. into the census debate. rately adjusted counts than unadjusted The amendment further provides that The Christian Science Monitor, April counts.’’ funds for a statistical counting will be 28, 1998. It says, We just cannot use this polling meth- cut off if the Supreme Court finds sam- od that penalizes small cities and pling unconstitutional. The real issue is political, not constitu- towns. Not only does this undercount tional. Some of the GOP party don’t really Mr. Chairman, it is unreasonable not want a more accurate count on the hardest- or miscount small towns and cities, but to proceed without this kind of ob- to-find Americans, the poor and new immi- the current scheme also eliminates the struction. grants, larger numbers in those categories right of those cities to contest the Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 could affect the political character of con- numbering. The adjustments are going minutes to the gentleman from Penn- gressional districts. Specifically, it might to occur so late that there is no way sylvania (Mr. PITTS). become harder to create ‘‘safe’’ Republican for the census Local Review Program Mr. PITTS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in seats. to be carried out, which would allow opposition to the Mollohan amend- Consider this. Buffalo News, June 15, the cities to see if the counts are accu- ment. I do not believe politics should 1998: rate and make their own input into the play a part in the 2000 census. It is too The argument really is more about politi- Bureau. That has all been taken out important to our country. cal power than logic. Republicans privately because of the timing of this program. We all know how important polls are fear that a census that reveals more minori- Frankly, the polling population to the Clinton administration. They ties and poor people could lead to a redraw- ing of legislative districts in ways that scheme shuts out small town America base most of their decisions on polls. threaten GOP office holders. and denies them the right to challenge. But do we want them to base the 2000 Consider this also. Newsday, June 16, Enumeration is essential, and I would census on a poll? I think not. The 1997: urge my colleagues to defeat the Mol- American people understand that polls lohan amendment. are not very accurate and, as we have Republicans, panicked they might lose Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I congressional seats with a more accurate heard, even President Clinton under- inner-city count, intend to fight again. They yield 2 minutes to the gentlewoman stands that. He has called the 2000 cen- are acting out of self-interest, not the na- from California (Ms. WATERS). sus scheme a poll. Sometimes it is tional interest. Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in wrong, he has said. Consider the Houston Chronicle, strong support of the Mollohan amend- Do we really want to use an inac- June 4, 1998: ment to restore full funding for the curate poll as the basis for representa- Census Bureau so that the agency can The purpose of the U.S. Census is to get tion of all levels of government for the the most accurate count possible. If using get on with the business of conducting next 10 years? Can the American people modern statistical sampling to augment the an accurate census that includes every- really trust a census that is based on a actual head count makes the census more ac- body. Placing a 6-month cap on the poll taken by the Clinton administra- curate, who could reasonably object? No one, funding of the Census Bureau and mak- tion? Mr. Chairman, the American peo- but then politicians who are afraid of losing ing only one-half of the funds available ple deserve a census that is honest and power do not always act reasonably. is an obstruction to an accurate and ef- reliable, one they can trust, not a pop- There you have it, from many dif- ficient census. ulation poll. ferent sources. It is my Republican col- We have heard by now that the 1990 Let me show my colleagues a poll leagues, not the President, not the ad- census was the first in this Nation’s conducted last week by McLaughlin & ministration, who are trying to manip- history to be less accurate than the Associates. People were asked in a sci- ulate the census count for political ad- preceding census. Mr. Chairman, in entific survey, a national survey, ‘‘Do vantage and not for the Nation’s inter- particular, 834,000 people were never you approve or disapprove of the Clin- est. counted in the State of California. Af- ton administration’s plan to replace an Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the Mollo- rican Americans were undercounted by actual head count with statistical sam- han Amendment. 7.6 percent and Hispanics by 4.9 percent pling in order to conduct the 2000 cen- The year 2000 will usher in a new decade, compared to the 2.3 percent undercount sus?’’ a new century and, for the first time in at least for whites. In fact, the City of Here are the results. Overall, 19 per- ten generations, a new millennium. Inglewood, a city in my Congressional cent approved, 66 percent disapproved, Perhaps more than any other time in his- district, had the State’s highest 14 do not know. Black, 33 percent ap- tory, every citizen should be counted, and the undercount rate among major cities. In proved, 52 percent disapprove and 14 do count should be accurate. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7193 The Mollohan Amendment will ensure that In 1992, women received only 12% of the does he have to lock it in in his amend- every citizen is counted. Commodity Credit Corporation Loans and ment? Because, frankly, the Constitu- On the other hand, the Bill, as written, will .06% of Government Payments. tion is on our side, the laws are on our cost more and count less. Additionally, women who work on farms side, history and precedent are on our Do we really want a repeat of 1990, Mr. are not adequately counted either because they work one part of the day in one location side. Speaker, when millions were double counted and the other part in another location. But, no, the Democrats cannot make and millions more were not counted at all? Without accurate census data, such as that this an argument over the Constitu- Do we really want to once again exclude achieved with sampling, in 1990 millions of tion, article I, section 2; it has to be poor people, minorities and rural residents? citizens were counted twice and millions about race baiting, it has to be about There is an under count in rural areas contrary more were not counted at all. political advantage. It is not possible to some in the majority. Without accurate census data, such as that that Republicans believe the Constitu- The 1990 undercount of 4 million people achieved with sampling, in 1992 of the 1.9 tion says what it says. also had a disproportionate impact on women million farmers counted nationally: Only Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, will and their children, particularly women on 18,816—(less than 1%) were Afro-American; only 29,956—(less than 1.5%) were Hispanic; the gentleman yield? ranches and farms. 1 Mr. THOMAS. Mr. Chairman, no, I do If small farmers and ranchers are struggling only 8,346—(less than ⁄2%) were Native American; and only 145,000—(less than 7%) not have time to yield. I do not even to survive, and they are, think of what is hap- were women farmers. have enough time to go through the pening today to women on those ranches and Without accurate census data, such as that points that I think absolutely need to farms. achieved with sampling, in 1992, of the ap- be made. If we accept the current census count, of proximately 2,500 farms counted in North If my colleagues will examine what the nearly 2 million farms in the United States, Carolina, .075—(less than 1%) were reported they are asking to do, contrary to cur- as being controlled by women. only six percent are operated by women. rent law, is to poll. They use the term According to the current census data, Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 ‘‘sampling.’’ Sampling is polling. It is among all the farms in my state, North Caro- minutes to the gentleman from Califor- creating a piece and then extrapolating lina, only three-fourths of one percent are held nia (Mr. THOMAS), chairman of the to the whole. by women. Committee on House Oversight. Their argument is that is more accu- And, because of the current data, in 1992, (Mr. THOMAS asked and was given rate than counting. Have we had infal- women in North Carolina received only twelve permission to revise and extend his re- lible counts in the past? No. Are we percent of the loans from the Commodity marks.) bound and determined to do a good job? Credit Corporation and only about one-half of Mr. THOMAS. Mr. Chairman, I find it Yes. Is there disagreement right now? one percent of Government Payments. interesting that the only way in which Yes. Will we have more information in The data collected by the year 2000 Census anyone can have a disagreement on the will affect social, economic, and political deci- February and March? Yes. Should we question of the census is that Repub- make a decision now? No. sions for years and years to come. licans are purely political and the The current census data simply does not in- When we take a look at polling, sam- Democrats take the usual high moral clude many of the women who actually own pling simply fills in the blanks. Prob- ground, they are right and we are farms. ably my colleagues saw Jurassic Park, wrong. That is interesting. This low count can be corrected, in part, but in which they had most of the DNA I love the quote about ‘‘telling the using sampling techniques to supplement the code, but they had to fill in the blanks truth is a political, not a moral mat- actual count. with what they thought was the appro- The inaccurate picture of women on ter,’’ which was in today’s Washington priate profile on the DNA code. ranches and farms is also due to the type of Post, and I think that sums up a lot of What these people are asking us to do information collected by the Census Bureau the response of my colleagues on the is to count some Americans and then and the Agriculture Department in their yearly Democratic side. We are playing poli- fill in the rest. But it is more insidious count. tics, they are not. than that, because sampling does not Currently, federal forms allow only one indi- The Chief of Staff sent a letter say- just do that. It is not like normal poll- vidual to be listed as the ``primary producer''Ð ing, ‘‘There is no need for a Govern- ing, where they take a random sample or ``owner'' of the farm. ment shutdown. But if there is one, it and assume the universe from that ran- If a man and woman jointly own a farm, will be because Republicans have ei- dom sample. usually it is the male whose name is on the ther not done their job on time and fin- What they actually are going to do is census form. ished the budget or have decided to count people and then not count them. If a woman's name is not on the form, the short-change critical investments in They are going to replace people who woman in not counted. our Nation’s future.’’ have actually been counted with vir- These uncounted women, then, did not The gentleman from Kentucky (Mr. tual people that the statisticians make have the opportunity to benefit farm training, ROGERS) clearly outlined the Presi- up. And that is not political? technical assistance, loans, and other pro- dent’s position. That is, he wants to Let me talk about politics. We cre- grams that can help farm women. shut the entire Department of Com- ated a bipartisan census oversight These women farm owners were not factors merce, Department of State, Depart- board to assist us in trying to come to in funding decision, setting agricultural policy, ment of Justice down over this vote. a very difficult, very complex constitu- and forecasting markets and future needs. Now, I can understand why he wants tional decision. Guess who they ap- The Mollohan Amendment will give the pro- to shut down the Federal Judiciary. We pointed? They appointed a fellow by fessional counting experts the resources they know that when he reappointed Janet the name of Tony Coehlo. A lot of peo- need to do the job they must do. Reno that the Department of Justice ple do not know Tony Coehlo. The Mollohan Amendment will ensure that was pretty well shut down. But clearly, In 1988, a book was written by Brooks we have a fair count in 2000, a count that the Department of State, the first de- Jackson, who was then a Wall Street treats every American the same. partment created, that department Journal reporter, called Honest Graft. Mr. Chairman, the Census determines rep- which deals with international rela- What he did was follow Tony Coehlo resentation and taxation in America. Women tions, ought to at least extend the full around for a year and then wrote a farmers and ranchers deserve to be counted. year given the President’s emphasis on book about what he saw. They too are American. I urge support for the international relations. Now his state- He says in the introduction, ‘‘Con- Mollohan Amendment. ment and White House Chief of Staff gressman Tony Coehlo runs a modern- CENSUS DATA IN THE UNITED STATES DO NOT Bowles’ is not a political statement day political machine, a sort of new ADEQUATELY CAPTURE THE NUMBER OF CITI- that he wants to shut those down for 6 Tammany Hall, in which money and ZENS IN RURAL AREAS INCLUDING MINORI- TIES AND WOMEN WHO OWN AND WORK ON months. pork barrel legislation have become FARMS The gentleman from West Virginia the new patronage.’’ THAT IS WHY WE NEED SAMPLING! (Mr. MOLLOHAN) I am sure offers a well- Tony Coehlo did it better than any- Some women jointly own farms with their intentioned amendment. If you have one else. He moved rapidly through the husbands, because of the way the data are read it carefully, what it does is it ranks of Democratic leadership, be- collected, they are not counted. locks in the sampling position. Why came Majority Whip; and then in the H7194 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 words of those famous poet song- Tony Coehlo. I do not know how fact that you can't possibly know when you writers, Paul Simon & Garfunkel, he Tony Coehlo gets in this debate. I have completed 90% because you don't know was ‘‘one step ahead of the shoe shine, guess if on the merits they do not have what 100% is; and leaving aside the fact that two steps away from the county line; anything more to say that they start the Congress is manifestly prepared to appro- he was just trying to keep his cus- ad hominem discourse or even attack priate the funds required for a first class cen- tomers satisfied, satisfied.’’ somebody who is not even here. So I sus rather than an economy model; what's He resigned from the House of Rep- hope we do not continue doing that. wrong with adjusting the numbers to reflect resentatives. He is the one that they Also, I would like to comment about estimated non-participation in the census proc- chose out of everybody in the world to the use of words like ‘‘polling’’ and ess by residents who, for whatever reason, fail be the key person on this oversight ‘‘cloning’’ techniques. These are very to participate? What's wrong is that this is a board. Talk about politics. unscientific terms. They are disparag- zero sum game. To the extent the census bu- What the chairman is advocating in ing terms. It just makes me have to reau adjusts the figures to increase the num- this proposal, fund it for a year, fence ask, why does every statistical associa- bers for non-participants, it reduces the rep- it for the last 6 months, get better in- tion, professional association line up in resentation and flow of federal funds for others formation, and then make a solid con- favor of statistical sampling, they do who discharge their civic responsibility to par- stitutional decision is exactly the right not use words like ‘‘polling’’ and ticipate in the census process. thing to do. Vote down the Mollohan ‘‘cloning.’’ These words are not a part And there will be a tremendous price to pay amendment. of the vernacular of these professionals in civic morale if this unprecedented change if Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I am who recommend statistical sampling in forced into effect on a partisan basis. very pleased to yield 3 minutes to the this context. First of all, whether warranted or not, the distinguished gentlewoman from Cali- Finally, Mr. Chairman, I would sim- fact that this change is insisted upon and fornia (Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD), who also ply comment on the repeated ref- forced into effect along largely political party has been a real leader on this issue. erences to the unconstitutionality of lines will give rise to the belief that the census Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Chair- sampling or the court’s ruling that adjustment is being implemented for partisan man, I rise to support the Mollohan sampling is not valid. advantage. amendment. That is absolutely the opposite. Secondly, the fact that the change to an ad- The census is critical to our country ministratively determined adjusted census fig- as it is the basis upon which decisions Every Federal district court, circuit court that has looked at this has said ure is most strongly advocated by those are made that directly impact every whose power and authority will be increased community in our Nation. that sampling is constitutional and lawful. by this new approach, will give rise to the con- Without a fair and accurate census, viction that the adjusted figure is the result not States lose their fair share of an an- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as he may consume to the of a search for greater truth, but rather of the nual $170 billion in Federal funds that pursuit of advantage for those in control of the could support children’s education, gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. PETRI). (Mr. PETRI asked and was given per- adjustment process. senior health services, and job training And thirdly, the fact that actual participation programs. Communities could also lose mission to revise and extend his re- marks.) in the census will no longer really affect the state and local government funds for count will result in a decline in participation services and infrastructure, and many Mr. PETRI. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the Mollohan amend- and in an increase in skepticism, and public communities will lose jobs and eco- cynicism, toward basic institutions of govern- nomic opportunities since businesses ment. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the ment. use census data to make decisions like Finally, I plead with my colleagues not to Mollohan Amendment. The Constitution pro- the hiring and the firing of employees play partisan games that could jeopardize the vides for an actual enumeration of our nation's and the opening of new businesses. census. Do not insist, on a partisan basis, for population every ten years. Mr. Chairman, the American people the first time, on an incomplete count and ad- Speaking of possible tax levies on the cannot afford to have us repeat the justment. Let us go forward, as we always states, Alexander Hamilton said in ``The Fed- grievous mistake of the 1990 census have in the past, with a complete enumeration eralist 36,'' ``the proportion of these taxes is when 4 million people were missed, 80 and do all that we can to make it as complete not to be left to the discretion of the national percent of whom were urban Ameri- as is humanly possible. Then adjust if you Legislature: but is to be determined by the cans, 50 percent of whom were children, think it improves things and we will settle it in numbers of each State as described in the and 80 percent of whom were Latinos, court. African-Americans, Asian-Americans, second section of the first article. An actual But to do a partial count and adjustment and American Indians living on res- census or enumeration of the people must fur- going in, without even attempting a complete ervations. nish the rule; a circumstance which effectually count, will confront our people and the courts And many States lost as a result of shuts the door to partiality or oppression.'' with a fait-accompli. If the courts then throw the 1990 undercount, as well. For exam- Hamilton was wise. We open ourselves to par- out that sampling-based census, we'll have to ple, the 1 million Californians that tiality and oppression if we open the census to do it all over again, at tremendous cost, pos- were not counted resulted in the State manipulation. sibly delaying redistricting, and inviting public From the first constitutionally mandated cen- of California losing 1 congressional disgust. seat and at least $1 billion in Federal sus in 1790 to the most recent in 1990, our Defeat the Mollohan Amendment! funds. government has used the most modern means Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 Mr. Chairman, the stakes are very available to perform as complete an actual minutes to the gentleman from Geor- high. It is outrageous that the Repub- head count of our population as possible. gia (Mr. LINDER). licans are forcing the Census Bureau to Now, for the first time, our census bureau pro- Mr. LINDER. Mr. Chairman, I thank use outdated technology that will poses to undertake less than a complete cen- the gentleman for yielding. again miss millions of Americans. If we sus and then to adjust its count to what ex- Mr. Chairman, I find it curious how are willing to ignore communities of perts estimate to be a complete count. One many times the Constitution seems to people and make then victims of ne- reason advanced for this departure from 200 get in the way of this administration. glect, what does that say about us as a years of practice is that an incomplete count It did so in Kyoto, when rather than country? would save money. Well, this Congress is pre- get a treaty agreed to by the Senate, I ask the Republican leadership to pared to spend the money necessary for a they are trying to put it in effect by put the interest of the country ahead first class full enumeration. And, I dare say, regulation. They did it with the INS of politics and support the Mollohan recent advances in communications and data during the last election. amendment to make every person in technology should enable the bureau to suc- Now the Constitution is in the way the country count. cessfully complete a more accurate actual again because they want a poll to find Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I enumeration than ever before in our nation's out who lives in America, count 90 per- yield myself 1 minute. history. cent of them and poll the rest. And Mr. Chairman, I just want to com- ``But doing a 90% count and then adjusting guess who they are? ment on some of the language being it will be cheaper, more accurate, and fairer,'' Polling is what statistical sampling used by the opposition. says the census bureau. Leaving aside the is. I know my colleagues do not want August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7195 to use that word because the President to ensure that the study is carried out in an around the number of people not count- sent a memo saying do not use that objective and unbiased manner with conclu- ed in urban areas, as one who rep- word. They tested it and it does not sions based solely on the scientific evidence. resents a rural district I want to high- test very well. But statistical sampling The committee’s draft is then reviewed by light the fact that people in rural areas independent reviewers, released in final form is polling. only after meeting the standards of quality of the country are missed as well. In I oppose the Mollohan amendment. I and objectivity set by the Academy. fact, some rural areas are under- support the carefully crafted bill of the Mr. LINDER. I have no doubt that counted to a greater degree than the gentleman from Kentucky (Mr. ROG- the chairman thinks he is a fine per- entire country. ERS). The chairman has succeeded in son. According to the Census Bureau, the crafting an effective plan to ensure Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I net undercount for the Nation in 1990 that the administration and the Con- yield 11⁄2 minutes to the distinguished was 1.6 percent, while renters in rural gress jointly decide how to conduct the gentlewoman from New York (Ms. areas were undercounted at a rate of 2000 Census. VELA´ ZQUEZ). 5.9 percent. That means rural renters Unfortunately, the Mollohan amend- (Ms. VELA´ ZQUEZ asked and was were undercounted nearly four times ment undermines their plan in favor of given permission to revise and extend the national average. It is important an untested, unproven population poll- her remarks.) that we give the Census Bureau the re- ing scheme. Supporters of the Mollo- Ms. VELA´ ZQUEZ. Mr. Chairman, I sources necessary to ensure an accu- han amendment are always quick to rise in strong support of the Mollohan rate count for all Americans in rural cite the National Academy of Sciences amendment. Not long ago, minority and urban areas. as a supporter of their population poll- communities were prevented from The Mollohan amendment ensures ing ideas. Unfortunately, much like being represented through violence and the Census Bureau will be able to ob- sampling, the statement appears true repression. Today’s method is far more tain the most accurate count possible in the abstract but falls apart under subtle. in a cost-efficient manner. In a time scrutiny. Let us be honest. Today’s debate is when we have such pressing budget Is it true that the National Academy not about the way we should conduct needs like home health care, independ- of Sciences has created an ad hoc com- the census. This is a debate about ent oil and gas needs, drought assist- mittee to study the census? Abso- whose voice will be heard and whose ance and many other crucial areas, it lutely. Is it true that these committees voice will be silenced. By not counting is not responsible to restrict the Cen- are composed of National Academy minorities, opponents of a fair census sus Bureau from using a cost-efficient member scholars? Absolutely not. In can justify slashing resources to these plan that utilizes sound science. fact, only one Academy member serves communities. In New York City alone, The Census Bureau, under the direc- on the 15-member committee looking just looking at seven Federal pro- tion of President George Bush ap- at the 2000 census. grams, including Head Start, the city pointee Barbara Bryant and the Na- Are the committee members care- lost more than $400 million as a result tional Academy of Sciences, developed fully selected for service? Absolutely of the 1990 undercount. the Census Bureau’s plan to use mod- not. Are they carefully selected to get Worst of all, political representation ern scientific methods to obtain the a broad range of views? Absolutely not. will be denied at every level. Think of most accurate count possible; not all of The panel members come from liberal the message you are sending to minor- the other allegations we have heard think tanks and Democrat politics and ity communities. You are telling the today. This came from that individual are chosen because of their pro-polling American people that these commu- and that plan and that is the way it views. nities do not deserve proper representa- should be. This plan is supported by In my review of the panel members, I tion. scientists and statistical experts in the could not find a single neutral thinker, My colleagues, conducting an accu- field. The plan uses the same methods much less a conservative one. How easy rate census is a matter of basic fairness that determine the gross national prod- it must be to get a favorable report and democracy. I urge everyone to vote uct and the national unemployment from a hand-picked panel stacked with ‘‘yes’’ on the Mollohan amendment. rate. sympathetic thinkers. Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I On Friday national figures on unem- When your panel believes in popu- yield 21⁄2 minutes to the distinguished ployment rates will be released. I can- lation polling as a concept, the only gentleman from Texas (Mr. STENHOLM). not imagine that anyone will rise up in question they are left with is how, not (Mr. STENHOLM asked and was outrage questioning the validity of why or whether. given permission to revise and extend those numbers. Why is it that in so b 1145 his remarks.) many other government functions, Mr. STENHOLM. Mr. Chairman, I such as unemployment rates, that Mr. Speaker, when answering why or rise in support of the Mollohan amend- science is not questioned? Why should whether to engage in this population ment, quite simply because it would we abandon science for partisanship in estimation, even this much-trumpeted, allow the Census Bureau to continue this issue? hand-picked, Democrat-defined pro- preparation for the 2000 census without I urge my colleagues to support the population polling panel would agree the risk of funding disruptions in the Mollohan amendment so the Census with me that even if sampling works in middle of their crucial planning proc- Bureau can use its cost-efficient plan theory, it can fail in practice. It can, it ess. to obtain an accurate count in 2000. has, and it will. I urge my colleagues to We all remember the impossible situ- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield oppose the Mollohan amendment and ation the government shutdown of 3 21⁄2 minutes to the gentleman from Ari- support the base bill. years ago placed on the ability of gov- zona (Mr. SHADEGG). Mr. SAWYER. Mr. Chairman, will the ernment agencies to continue nec- Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Chairman, I gentleman yield? essary work. I believe it is important thank the gentleman for yielding me Mr. LINDER. I yield to the gen- that we not place the Census Bureau in this time and I rise in very strong op- tleman from Ohio. that position again as it prepares for position to the Mollohan amendment. I Mr. SAWYER. Let me just offer a re- one of the most important government oppose it because it is dangerous, I op- joinder on behalf of the National Acad- functions outlined by the Constitution: pose it because it is fundamentally un- emy of Sciences from its president in a obtaining an accurate count of all fair to minorities, and particularly to letter sent to me yesterday: Americans. the most undercounted minority in the Since 1863, the Academy’s most valuable I want to emphasize that accuracy is last census, and I speak from experi- contribution to the Federal Government has critical, in fact, the only relevant issue ence. been to provide unbiased, high-quality sci- as we prepare for the 2000 census. We In the 1990 census I worked as a law- entific advice on controversial, complex issues. Committee members are nationally all acknowledge that millions of people yer in the Arizona legislature advising recognized experts in their fields, and they were missed in the 1990 census. While the legislature on restricting. I worked serve without compensation. The Academy much of the debate on correcting the every day on census tracks and census balances the membership of each committee undercount of the census is centered blocks. I can tell Members that while H7196 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 sampling, or polling, as the proponents Members in this debate would kind of The 2000 Census is perhaps one of the of the Mollohan amendment want, may hold themselves out to making final most important issues of our day. We are work in theory, in practice it will not conclusions about methods of conduct- charged with the responsibility to ensure that work. And beyond that, the census ing the census and disparaging statis- everybody is counted. Because if you are not sampling proposal by the Census Bu- tical sampling when they are not ex- counted you do not count. Since the first Cen- reau this year is fundamentally unfair perts, I do not think they have been sus in 1790, there was a significant to minorities. qualified as experts, and they are real- undercount especially among the poor and Let us start with the beginning. ly going up against the major statis- disenfranchised. 200 years later in 1990, it is Number one, many of my colleagues tical professional associations in the estimated that the census missed 8.8 million have pointed out that sampling is less country, and they are opposing their people. accurate in small areas. The most im- view that sampling is valid and the In Chicago, the City of the big shoulders, portant part of sampling is redistrict- best technique to get a real count of the 3rd largest City in the nation, a city with ing. the number of people in our country. one of the largest concentrations of poverty in Redistricting is built from very small Let me just list them again. Rec- urban America, the undercount was about 2.4 census blocks, which can be as small as ommending the use of statistical sam- percent, or about 68,000 people which trans- 10 or 20 people or as large as thousands pling in the 2000 census to get an accu- lates into at least 2 million dollars of entitle- of people. But when you go and work rate count of the number of people in ment money which could have and should on the maps as I did in 1990, and you this country are none less than the have been used to feed the hungry, clothe the are working with tiny little blocks American Statistical Association, the naked and provide shelter for the homeless. It that have 200 or 300 people in them or Population Association of America, is inconceivable that we could allow this to less, guessing, or sampling, will American Sociological Association, the happen again and that is exactly what will produce incredible inaccuracies. It is in Council of Professional Associations on happen unless we fully fund and implement a that regard less accurate. Federal Statistics, the Consortium of scientific approach to the census. The African Second, they propose that we are Social Science Associations, and the American undercount in Chicago was between going to do an actual count of 90 per- National Academy of Sciences rounds 5 and 6 percent. Most of those who were not cent and then guess the last 27 million out that very distinguished group, just counted were people living in cities and rural people, another 10 percent. My 12-year- so folks understand what they are com- communities, African Americans, Latinos, old son can tell me, ‘‘Dad, how do I ing up against. Asians, and the poor. know if I’ve got 90 percent if I don’t Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to None of us believe that newspapers are al- know what 100 percent is?’’ Their an- the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. ways right, but we must admit that a cross swer to that is, ‘‘We’re going to guess DAVIS). section of them often have their fingers on the at what 100 percent is.’’ Therefore when Mr. DAVIS of Illinois. Mr. Chairman, pulse of the people and all the way across we say we have gotten to 90 percent, much has been said about this debate. America, Roll Call here in D.C., the Chicago that will be a guess. That is a massive Much is going to be said. But after all Sun Times, the Buffalo News, the Chicago invitation for fraud and problems. is said and done, there are some facts Tribune, the Christian Science Monitor, the But let us talk about the human mo- that will remain the same. Fact num- New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the tivations. Since the founding of this ber one, African-Americans and the Atlanta Constitution, the Bangor Maine Daily country, we have told Americans, ‘‘It is poor have been undercounted in this News, the St. Louis Post Dispatch, the Com- your duty to turn in your form and to country since 1790. Even the Constitu- mercial Appeal in Memphis, the Houston tell the government about your family, tion allowed for African-Americans, for Chronicle, the Dallas Morning News and oth- fill out your census form.’’ This year blacks, to be counted as three-fifths of ers have all written about scientific sampling we are going to send a very different a person. Now there are those who and full funding for the Census. message under the Mollohan amend- would tell us 200 years later that it is They knew that when every American is not ment. We are going to tell people, counted America loses, cities lose and people ‘‘Send in your form but, oh, by the all right for the poor to be under- counted because they are hard to find. are denied valuable resources and representa- way, it doesn’t matter because we’re tion in Congress, State Legislatures, County It is all right because you do not know not going to count you.’’ As a matter Boards and City Councils. where they are. It is all right because of fact, as was pointed out earlier by Secondly, I am supporting this amendment the gentleman from California (Mr. they live way out in rural America. It because it avoids the risk of a census shut- is all right because they live under the THOMAS), we may even take you when down and serious disruptions to census prepa- you turn in your form and reject your viaducts in the big urban cities. ration. This amendment ensures that the cen- The only way that the people of this form. sus bureau has sufficient funding to carry out country will be counted is to pass the But let us talk about the most im- its plan. portant issue, fundamental fairness to Mollohan amendment. We missed al- This is a common sense amendment that Native Americans. Their proposal, if most 9 million people the last time, 9 allows the census bureau to move forward they were concerned about fairness, is million of the poorest people in Amer- with their important work of making sure that insane. They say that the current sys- ica. Millions of dollars of entitlement we have the most accurate census possible. I tem undercounts minorities. The single moneys should have gone to them and urge my colleagues to support accuracy and most undercounted minority in the to their cities. It is amazing to me that support the Mollohan amendment. last census was Native Americans. Yet someone could come to the floor of this Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield under the Census Bureau plan, for no House and suggest that sampling is un- such time as he may consume to the rational reason, Native Americans will fair to the minorities in this country. gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. not be sampled. Mr. Chairman, I would urge, let us be PAPPAS). We will sample Hispanics, we will real, let us be serious. Every newspaper (Mr. PAPPAS asked and was given sample blacks, we will sample inner in America, and we do not live by permission to revise and extend his re- cities, but Native Americans we are newspapers, but the Chicago Tribune, marks.) going to actually count. We will not the Sun Times, New York Times, Los Mr. PAPPAS. Mr. Chairman, I rise even sample for them, yet they were Angeles Times, Buffalo Times, Com- today in support of the Constitution the most undercounted in the last cen- mercial Appeal, from Memphis to and our Founding Fathers’ wisdom to sus. Their proposal is fundamentally Maine, all of the newspapers have said call for a ‘‘full enumeration’’ census unfair to the most undercounted Amer- that scientific sampling and full fund- and not a statistical sample that is icans in this Nation. ing of the census is the way to go. bound to be flawed. I urge my colleagues to reject the Mr. Chairman, I rise today to support the Mr. Chairman, the census is one of the Mollohan amendment as unfair and Mollohan amendment for two reasons. First, most important activities our government un- flawed. this amendment strikes language in the bill dertakes each decade and we should take it Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I that restricts funding for the Census Bureau. very seriously. yield myself 1 minute. The amendment allows the Census Bureau to The U.S. Constitution requires that a census Mr. Chairman, I am not a statisti- proceed with its plan to conduct the fairest be conducted every ten years in order to ap- cian. It just amazes me that some and most accurate Census to date. portion the House of Representatives among August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7197 the 50 states. The entire configuration and re- who was the person who headed the Chief of the Decennial Statistical Studies Divi- drawing of legislative districts from federal to 1990 Census that some people say 5 mil- sion, admitted that nearly 1.5 million records state to local jurisdictions is based on the cen- lion miscounted or 9 million mis- would have been subtracted had adjustment sus and helps ensure the democratic principle counted. We need to go forward and been used. of equal representation. count and do the job that cities like To me, the Census is not just a process. It But despite the seriousness of the census, Milwaukee and Indianapolis and Cin- is a decennial portrait of the Nation. Every 10 the Administration has moved to ensure we cinnati did do, and even the guess- years, each person has the affirmative right to have a failed census. Listen to the Govern- timate of the 5 million people was be counted. What do we say to the person ment Accounting Office and even the Adminis- wrong. who lives in Elgin, IL, who says ``I am a 24- tration's own Commerce Department's Inspec- Mr. Chairman, we cannot afford to be year-old American of Irish descent, who lives tor General who have stated this sampling wrong on the 2000 Census. in an apartment with my husband and 3-year- plan is ``high risk.'' Mr. Chairman, as the Chairman of the old son, and my form was deleted from the Mr. Chairman, it is time to get serious about House Subcommittee which formerly had juris- sample?'' I, for one, am not willing to tell her: the census and follow the Constitution of the diction over the Census Bureau, I rise in oppo- ``Don't worry. Although, we did not count you, United States of America. I certainly have faith sition to the Mollohan amendment. I am con- we polled people like you and our odds of in our founding fathers belief in the importance vinced we are at the crossroads in terms of guessing your information correctly are quite of conducting an accurate census and we the decennial Census. Either we will pursue a good.'' I ask you, how can this be more accu- should as well. We should work for nothing Census with the goal of actual enumeration; or rate? less. we will allow the Clinton Administration to I have pointed to several problems I see Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 gamble on a population polling scheme with with the Bureau's plan to supplant enumera- minutes to the gentleman from Illinois the stated aim of not even trying to count ev- tion with polling. I also have pointed out that (Mr. HASTERT), the chief deputy whip eryone. our experience with polling during the 1990 of the House. I think it is important that the American peo- Census was not a good one. Although the (Mr. HASTERT asked and was given ple understand how the Clinton Administration Census Bureau assures us that we should not permission to revise and extend his re- is proposing to conduct our Census. Rather worry, that the problems of 1990 are in the marks.) than trying to count people one-by-one, the past, I remain unconvinced for a variety of Mr. HASTERT. Mr. Chairman, I am Census Bureau is proposing a complicated, reasons: convinced that we are at the crossroads and highly risky, population polling scheme. In First, the Census Bureau has not solved at the terms of the decennial census. essence, they propose to count 90 percent many of the operational problems which Either we will pursue a census with the and guess the rest. Why do they favor such a plagued the 1990 sampling plan. During the goal of actual enumeration or we will risky scheme? 2000 Census, the Bureau plans to poll allow the Clinton administration to When asked, the Census Bureau claims 750,000 households in less time than it took gamble on a population polling scheme ``trust us'' it will be more accurate and cost them to poll only 1¤5 of that number in 1990. with the stated aim of not even trying less. I beg to differ. And, given the strict deadlines that the Bureau to count everyone in the system. While I wholeheartedly support both these faces to get the population numbers re- I am sorry my good colleague from goals of saving taxpayer dollars and making portedÐat the same time Americans will be Illinois talks about bringing in racism sure everyone is counted, I am not convinced struggling with their tax formsÐshouldn't we in this thing. Not at all. What we real- that polling is the solution. In fact, the more I be concerned about quick fixes, made on-the- ly need to do is to look at this issue understand about the Administration's plan, fly, to the adjustment models in order to get and make sure that every American is the more I am convinced that polling will lead the results done? Do we really want this much counted. We need to make an extraor- to a less accurate and ultimately more costly power in the hands of a dozen people at the dinary effort to make sure that every Census. Or, more likely, a failed Census. Census Bureau? American is counted. Every American We have a basis to judge the Bureau's Further, a critical element of the population should stand up and be counted in this claim that polling will lead to a more accurate polling scheme, the Master Address File, is country, not to be some statistic. CensusÐthe Post Enumeration Survey con- seriously flawed. The GAO pointed out that, What really happens in actuality, ducted during the 1990 Census. The results of for two test locations in 1995, the Master Ad- you take 90 percent of the people, those this guesstimate suggested that 5 million per- dress File did not include about six percent of people who turn in their forms, that do sons were not ``counted.'' The only problem is the addresses identified through field verifica- the things they were requested to do, that these so-called ``scientific'' calculations tions; and that some of the addresses belong and then if you have 95 percent of the were wrong. Because of a glitch in the com- to commercial buildings, not households. How people that turn this in, you throw puter software, 2,500 cases were can the Census Bureau conduct a random poll away 5 percent. You uncount people. misidentified. While 2,500 cases in a census of all the households in America if it can't That is wrong. That is absolutely of 250 million seems trivial, because of the even identify where people live? wrong. It should not be done. use of sampling this mistake was magnified Finally Mr. Chairman, I am concerned about b 1200 many times. In 1990, once the error was iden- the potential for political manipulation in this Then they take a statistical guess at tified, the Census Bureau reduced it's estimate plan. Although the Clinton Administration has who makes up the rest of that 10 per- of the undercount by a million persons. As the assured us that politics will not be part of this cent. Las Vegas Review-Journal noted just last census, I am not convinced. They have said Mr. Chairman, as my colleagues week, ``garbage in, garbage out.'' ``trust us'' before, remember Citizenship USA. know, what we need to do is what is As disturbing as the potential for technical For instance, the decision to count only 90 right for the American people. We need errors isÐand the General Accounting Office percent of the population is itself an arbitrary to count the American people, we may noted that similar software problems persistÐ figure. I have heard no scientific rationale why need to make an extraordinary effort I am particularly concerned about what will 90 percent is the magic number. What if they so that every American is counted, and happen to Census forms turned in on time, by are not able to reach this goal? Does this that is in the cities and countryside real people. Because of the use of statistical mean that the Census will have failed? Not and suburbs and everywhere, that we adjustment, real people will be deleted from according to the Census Bureau. The dirty lit- have a true representation of who the the Census. Let me repeatÐthe Clinton Ad- tle secret of this plan is that the poll, not ac- American people are, who that Amer- ministration proposes to delete real people tual enumeration, is their first priority. In short, ican portrait is, because it is tied to from the Census. Once again the 1990 Cen- under the Census scheme proposed by this something else. It ties the representa- sus poll illustrates this point. Had we used sta- Administration, actually counting people is inci- tion of this House. And, if we guess who tistical adjustment for the 1990 Census, peo- dental to the final countÐour population, and the American people are, then we guess ple in 9 counties in my home State of Illinois it's characteristics, will be determined by poll- who should be represented in this would have been deleted from the Census. ing guesstimates. Why did the Census Bureau House of Representatives. Yes, Mr. Chairman, they would have been decide that they needed to count 90 percent Mr. Chairman, that is not good dropped from the Census because some poll of the population? Mr. Chairman, it is my be- enough for the American people. said they did not exist, even though they lief that this figure itself was chosen for politi- We need to move forward, we need to turned in their formsÐthis is wrong. But don't cal reasonsÐit was the smallest number they not take the advice of Barbara Bryant, take my word for it, Howard Hogan, the Acting felt the Congress and the American people H7198 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 could swallow. The plan to count 90 percent is Mr. Chairman, the risk of a failed cent of Americans, and that is as close a fig leaf, a subterfuge, a sham designed to census is increased by those who want as we have ever come in trying to head cover-up their population polling scheme. to cut off funding for the census in count people. But there is a real con- Make no mistake about it, the final numbers midyear. Earlier this year the GAO cern on this side of the aisle in going will be determined by a poll and they will not said the longer this disagreement be- after those groups that are tradition- be dependent in any way, shape, or form tween Congress and the administration ally undercounted, so much so that upon actual enumeration. Furthermore, if for continues, the greater the risk of a this House is preparing to pass legisla- any reason the polling scheme fails, we are up failed 2000 Census. tion that would provide half-year fund- the proverbial creek because the Census Bu- The American people deserve an ac- ing for a whole host of agencies, not reau will have stopped counting at 90 percent. curate count. the least of which is the Department of Let me be clear, I strongly support the goal Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 Justice, the Department of Commerce. of a more-accurate census. However, I believe minutes to the gentleman from Texas Mr. Chairman, no American would go we can accomplish this using methods we (Mr. DELAY), the majority whip of the out and shop for half a house. No Amer- know work. First, the linchpin of any good cen- House. ican would go out there and buy half a sus plan, is to insure that the Master Address Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I have to car. No American would plan for half File is accurate. As of this date, we have no rise in opposition to this amendment, an education for his or her children. No assurance that this will be done in time. Sec- and the question today is quite simple American would buy half a loaf of ondly, we need to engage in a significant out- to me: Do we decide to use polls to con- bread. What we want is something that reach program to get local and state officials, duct the census, or do we actually we can plan for in the future, and we do as well as community leaders, involved in the count the people as required under the not have it in this bill. census. Finally, we need to engage our local Constitution? Can we trust this Presi- That is why the Mollohan amend- communities. We need to organize census dent to do what is right? ment says: events and educational programs. We need to Now this amendment makes it easier Let us fund the Department of Com- reach out to minority leaders. We need to as- for this administration to use polls to merce, the Department of Justice and sure people who, for whatever reason view conduct the census. As the President certainly the Bureau of Census all the participation in the Census with suspicion, that said in Houston, if I can have that way through, and if the courts should all their specific information is confidential. brought over here: say that we are wrong in going with Mr. Chairman, I know we can do an accu- Most people understand that a poll taken statistical sampling, and I cannot yield rate Census; one in which the goal is to count before an election is a statistical sample, to the gentleman although I would love everyoneÐcertainly not count some and and sometimes it’s wrong, but often, more to yield if he yielded me time to do so. guess about others. As Chairman of the Sub- often than not, it’s right. Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield committee formerly with jurisdiction over the So, every time the Mollohan amend- 30 seconds to the gentleman from Cali- Census, I asked the Commerce Department's ment supporters say ‘‘sampling,’’ have fornia (Mr. BECERRA), and, Mr. Chair- Under Secretary in charge of the Census a the word ‘‘poll’’ in mind, because, Mr. man, will the gentleman yield? simple question: If a bank teller gave you a Chairman, this is taking polling to a Mr. BECERRA. I yield to the gen- stack of one dollar bills and told you that he very new level. tleman from Kentucky. thought that there were $1,000 there, how What is next? Should we poll to see if Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, does would you react? Would you accept the the Clinton campaign broke the law in the gentleman understand that this guess, or would you count them? With reluc- the last election? Should we poll to see bill funds the entire year for all these tance, the Under Secretary finally admitted if Ken Starr is doing his job? Well, Mr. agencies and only half a year for the that in order to be sure he got all his money, Chairman, the President is a master Census Bureau? he would count it. when it comes to manipulating the Mr. BECERRA. Mr. Chairman, that is Mr. Chairman, I couldn't agree more. In polls, but sometimes polls are not not the way I see it. But I see what this order to be accurate, let's count all the people enough. Sometimes the American peo- majority has done is funded. in 2000 and not bank our future on a popu- ple need to know the truth. And when Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I tell lation polling scheme. I urge my colleagues to it comes to the census, the Constitu- the gentleman that that is not so. defeat the Mollohan Amendment and to sup- tion requires that we know the truth. The gentleman is completely unin- port an accurate count. The most amazing thing about this formed about what the bill does. We Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, we polling scheme is that it will delete fund all of these agencies for the full all agree on that. real people who happen to be members year. The White House wants to cut it Mr. Chairman, I yield 11⁄2 minutes to of a demographic group who are over- off after 6 months. the distinguished gentlewoman from represented. Can my colleagues imag- Mr. BECERRA. And the chairman California (Ms. MILLENDER-MCDONALD). ine that? Deleting real people? Do my was very artful in the way he describes Ms. MILLENDER-MCDONALD. Mr. colleagues think that the Founding Fa- this. Chairman, the opponents of a fair and thers ever imagined a census count Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, will accurate census have implied that both that actually uncounted citizens of the gentleman yield so I can straighten the Inspector General and the GAO this country? That is what they are this out? have said that the 2000 Census is head- proposing: uncounting citizens of this Mr. BECERRA. I yield to the gen- ed toward failure because of the use of Nation. tleman from West Virginia. statistical methods. In fact, just the So, Mr. Chairman, we have to defeat Mr. MOLLOHAN. The gentleman is opposite is true. The Inspector General this amendment and stop this polling absolutely correct with regard to the said in testimony before Congress: madness. The Constitution requires a important pertinent part of this bill, I have fully supported and have been rec- count of the people, not a poll of the and that is the Census Bureau. Indeed ommending sampling for some time. In fact, people. the Republican leadership in the House the Bureau needs to increase the amount of Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I and the administration were, previous sampling over that presently planned. yield 31⁄2 minutes to the distinguished to our marking up the bill, talking Nye Stevens, who directs this issue gentleman from California (Mr. BECER- about not funding the whole bill but at the GAO, also testified before a Re- RA). only half the year. Well, that was non- publican controlled Congress and said: Mr. BECERRA. Mr. Chairman, I sense. We did not do that. We funded We are particularly encouraged by the de- thank the gentleman for yielding this the whole bill for half the year, except cision to adopt sampling among the non- time to me. we carried on the nonsense with regard response population. We have long advocated Mr. Chairman, it is becoming very to the census, so in this bill only the this step. clear that there is a real fright in this census is not funded for the whole year. Both the GAO and the Commerce I.G. House among some Members if we go It stops at half a year, and it creates have endorsed the use of statistical out and truly count all of the Amer- the same kind of malarkey and non- methods in the census and have criti- ican people, something we have never sense and instability in the census that cized the Census Bureau for not using been able to do. The 1990 Census, as we we would have created with the whole them more. know, undercounted about 4 or 5 per- bill if we had done the same thing. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7199 It is a bad thing to do. We just did it we simply go out and we sample some There are a lot of things in this cen- with the census and not the rest of the of the population, we fill in the blanks sus that you are not even thinking bill, which is horrible, and that is the on whatever discretion or whatever about. The Voting Rights Act is in reason the census is threatened, the numbers we need. there. My people died for the right to very point the gentleman makes, that That is what this argument is about. vote. If you are going to skew the fig- we are only funding the census for half Now think about this administration ures because you do not want to count a year, and that is why the 2000 Census who has politicized the FBI, the BATF, them correctly, that removes the is at risk. I thank the gentleman for the Immigration Service, the National humor from this situation for me. For making the point. Park Service, the Travel Service, the the past six censuses you have under- Mr. BECERRA. Mr. Chairman, in 1991 USDA and the EPA. Now they are counted African-Americans. It is time then Congressman NEWT GINGRICH, now doing the census service by bringing to tell this country we want everybody Speaker NEWT GINGRICH, said: ‘‘Use them into politics. And where is this counted. statistical sampling to adjust the Census Bureau who is so worried about I have been working on this census count from 1990 because my State of their budget, so worried about the cen- issue since the 104th Congress. Mr. Georgia is not going to have everyone sus crisis; where are they? CLINGER was the chairman of the com- counted.’’ Well, we have done a little investiga- mittee at that time. I could not get a 1998, the Republicans under the gen- tion, Mr. Chairman, and here is where sentence to the front. Once we got a sentence to the front, we could not get tleman from Georgia (Mr. GINGRICH) they are: are trying to stop what he asked for in Number one, the itinerary for the ex- a hearing. So it has been just a sequen- ecutives and the head bureaucrats over 1991. Why? Because there is such fright tial means of gagging the Democrats at the Census Bureau, they have got a about the census. out there. Now the time for this gag is over. Now who are we going to trust? The busy month coming up: Rome, Italy, Trevoli Fountain, the You may as well cut it out, because we National Academy of Sciences and the Coliseum by moonlight. Paris, France, are going to let the American public scientists, the experts, who do count- Champs Elysee by summer. Wiesbaden, know that you are taking the right ing? Who? President Bush? Germany. I am getting ready for that the Constitution gave us, enu- Then President Bush, said: ‘‘Please Octoberfest, beat the rush on the beer. meration. Define it for me. I have tell us how best to do this.’’ Armenia. Well, everybody knows Arme- never seen it defined in the Constitu- He said: ‘‘Let us use statistical sam- nians are experts in the census and tion. It does not say that you count pling.’’ every head, that that is enumeration. Or folks who said, ‘‘We want you to then of course there is Malawi and Zomba, Malawi, which, as my col- Enumeration could include sampling. use statistical sampling,’’ when it ben- You cannot prove to me through any efited them but now are concerned leagues know, I do not know exactly what they are, but I know they are real kind of empirical observation that it about it? means what you are saying it means. I will tell my colleagues this: Who good at counting people and we need to go down there. And of course Rio de Ja- Now you are telling me today that should the American people trust? I you know that there will be an inad- would trust those who are devoted and neiro. In case we miss Carnivale, we can go down there in the summertime. equate count, you know there is going have devoted a career to science, not to to be an undercount, yet you are tak- people who are devoted to a career of And then Taiwan. Of course. Census crisis, go to Taiwan. Makes sense to ing the risk to say so. politics. That is what we have today. My good friend the gentleman from me. Will not have problems with mis- Mr. Chairman, I would hope that the Florida (Mr. MILLER), and we are good American people could see through the sile technology transfers with their friends, but he discussed this morning charade and understand that there are neighbor. that we are working on something to The point is, if Clinton decides to some political risks that some folks help this counting, this regular enu- shut down the government over this are very concerned about, and, as a re- meration. sult, they are willing to play with the legislation, at least the Census Bureau How are we going to do it? I offered lives of American people who have will have enough frequent flyer points an amendment to the Republicans. never had a chance to participate in in the bank to keep running around the They hardly let me get in the door of this process. globe for another 3 months. the Committee on Rules, let alone let Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I am Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 the amendment be declared eligible for pleased to yield 4 minutes to the gen- minutes and 10 seconds to the gen- the floor. tlewoman from Florida (Mrs. MEEK), tleman from Georgia (Mr. KINGSTON). There is no way we are going to be who I am sure will speak to the issues Mr. KINGSTON. Mr. Chairman, I able to use these people who work in in this debate. thank the gentleman for yielding this the neighborhoods to help bring about (Mrs. MEEK of Florida asked and was an adequate count, even by their own time to me. given permission to revise and extend The Commerce, State and Justice best estimate, and that is using enu- her remarks.) merators. I have not been able to get bill has become part of the Clinton re- Mrs. MEEK of Florida. Mr. Chair- gain-credibility-by-shutting-down-the- that through the census. man, I just want to ask the Repubs one I want to say one more thing, and government strategy. question: What is this? Some kind of a We have a disagreement, or let us say then I am going to yield, because I treatise on the Clinton administration? know the gentleman is frustrated. Clinton has a disagreement. He wants What is it? An inquiry on the Clinton to renege on last year’s promise and What you have been doing is saying we administration? Or is it a dissertation are going to throw a pile of money at shut down the government using any on the census? That is what we are the census just so we can utilize these excuse to do it. And what was last here for. We are here to talk about the old, worn-out, tired methods. You are year’s bipartisan agreement? To main- census. going to put as much megabucks in tain two tracks on the census: And I want to tell my colleagues there as you can. Number one, the constitutional something. It is not funny to me. It is But I do not care how much money route. Remember that little rule book not funny because they have under- you put there, you are not going to be so carefully crafted by our Founding counted the people I represent, and able to count them all. You have got to Fathers which many on this side and they not only undercounted them, they use some method to count them. But the administration consider a sugges- did it in the last census and they are that is not why I am here. I am saying tion book, but the Constitution says, doing it again. again, use the best method you can. ‘‘You will count people head by head to Mr. MILLER of Florida. Mr. Chair- b 1215 make sure no one is left out and no man, will the gentlewoman yield? one, wink wink, is put in who doesn’t But it is funny to you. But it is not Mrs. MEEK of Florida. I yield to the exist.’’ funny to me, because since the begin- gentleman from Florida. And then the Number Two: There is ning of this country, you have grinned Mr. MILLER of Florida. Mr. Chair- the polling method advocated by the and scoffed at freedom for the people I man, I completely agree with the gen- President. The polling method is where represent. tlewoman that we need to get people. H7200 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 When I was on the floor earlier, I spoke The American Statistical Associa- son laid before this body to use the about how we need to work together to tion created a handpicked blue ribbon best data available to conduct the de- get people in the local communities. In panel to inform the public about sam- cennial census. the Haitian community in Miami, we pling. While all the members of this Rather than providing the Census need to get Haitians. We will get legis- panel may have been members of the Bureau the full funding it requires to lation to give the government all the American Statistical Association, ensure that every American is counted, possibilities. That is exactly what we again, the horse was put before the the Republicans have decided to place need to do. cart. The answer the panel would have their own partisan political interests Mrs. MEEK of Florida. Mr. Chair- delivered was known ahead of time. above a fair and accurate count of man, reclaiming my time, I trust the These phony panels are akin to ask- every person in this Nation. gentleman, but I do not trust those ing Popeye if spinach should be the na- The Census Bureau has created a other people helping you make these tional vegetable. Do we ask the Seven plan that will count everyone. It is a decisions, because if we do not use Dwarfs to be objective about Snow plan that relies on the most modern some people in the neighborhood, we White? Of course not. scientific methods to supplement the will not get an accurate count. It is Do not believe the hype. If you have traditional head count, and will save us fruitless to try to count every person no objective scientific evidence for the hundreds of millions of dollars in costs. with that old traditional method. It did reliability of the population polling Not only does the overwhelming ma- not work before, it is not going to work scheme, then we have to reject it. The jority of the scientific community sup- now. My appeal to you, to this Con- GAO has already expressed their port the Census Bureau’s plan, the Na- gress, is that it is impossible. doubts about this scheme. tional Academy of Sciences has con- So I draw one conclusion, and I will There is too much at stake here. We cluded that using scientific statistical sit down: There are some that do not think that this amendment should be methods is the most valid and cost ef- want an adequate census. defeated. During the dress rehearsal, fective way to count the population. Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 the GAO discovered that the Master Most importantly, the Federal courts minutes to the gentleman from Vir- Address File did not include between 3 have given the Commerce Department ginia (Mr. DAVIS), a member of the and 6 percent of the households. It is and the Census Bureau the authority to Subcommittee on Census. fatally flawed. Reject the Mollohan determine what are the best methods (Mr. DAVIS of Virginia asked and amendment. for conducting the census. Republicans was given permission to revise and ex- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I am ignore the expertise of the scientific tend his remarks.) pleased to yield 3 minutes to the gen- community and the decisions of the Mr. DAVIS of Virginia. Mr. Chair- tleman from Missouri (Mr. GEPHARDT), courts. Their political position flies in man, I rise in opposition to the Mollo- the distinguished minority leader. the face of the facts. han amendment. (Mr. GEPHARDT asked and was Republicans are repeating the mis- We have heard a great deal about the given permission to revise and extend takes of the past. Democrats have National Academy of Sciences and his remarks.) learned from these mistakes and are their endorsement of the population Mr. GEPHARDT. Mr. Chairman, working towards achieving a better polling scheme for Census 2000. Let me there is a great saying by a great per- census and a more accurate count of all let you in on a little secret: The distin- son who once said, ‘‘Those who cannot Americans. guished members of the National Acad- remember the past are condemned to The Mollohan amendment would re- emy of Sciences have not endorsed the repeat it.’’ Republicans have failed to quire the Census Bureau to continue plan. Indeed, the entire membership of learn from our past experiences with planning for the 2000 census until the the National Academy never endorses the 1990 census, at the cost of leaving Supreme Court makes the final deter- anything. out millions of Americans in the year mination of what is constitutional. It So what then are these three blue 2000 count. is the only logical choice for Demo- ribbon panels at the National Acad- We are here today debating the Mol- crats and Republicans alike who want emy? The NAS regularly convenes lohan amendment simply because our to see preparation and planning for the these panels to study important prob- Republican colleagues have forgotten 2000 census proceed without political lems facing the country or govern- about what happened in 1990, when the interruptions. ment, but members of the committees census failed to count over 6 million Let me add one further point. If we need not be members of the National people in this country. Their collective do not get an accurate census, it will Academy of Sciences. Indeed, most of amnesia will condemn us to repeat an- have enormous economic implications the time there are very few National other failed census which dispropor- for every community in this country. I Academy of Sciences members on the tionately undercounts Hispanic and Af- have had both Republican and Demo- committee at all. rican Americans, children and rural cratic mayors say to me that this issue Let me give an example. One of the residents. is the most important economic issue three panels endorsing the use of poll- Republicans like to act like they for their city, their town, their county, ing to adjust the census was called the have learned the lesson of past mis- their village. Panel on Census Requirements for the takes on the great civil rights issues of This is not just about politics, al- Year 2000 and Beyond. There were 20 our generation, when many in their though, unfortunately, it has become people working on that committee. party were on the wrong side of efforts that. It is about the economic future of How many actual members of the Na- to extend voting rights and desegregate every city, village and town in this tional Academy of Sciences? One. That public places in our country. country. Democratic and Republican is right, just one. The census is today’s great civil mayors alike want sampling because The other 19 members were hand- rights issue, and once again Repub- they realize it is the only way we are picked so that the panel would know licans are standing against what is going to get an accurate census. what the answer was before they even right and what will give us an accurate Vote for the Mollohan amendment. asked the question. We are dealing census. They are determined to ensure Let us keep the promise of the Con- with a stacked deck, Mr. Chairman. I, that the 2000 census has an even great- stitution. Let us get an accurate count. for one, am not buying it. er undercount by limiting funding to Let us do the right thing for the Amer- After the panel finished its work and the Census Bureau in the Commerce- ican people. delivered the inevitable report, did the State-Justice appropriations bill to Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 entire National Academy of Sciences only six months. minute to the gentleman from Florida address the report? Of course not. The Republicans’ action in this legis- (Mr. MICA). There are members of the National lation would directly undermine the (Mr. MICA asked and was given per- Academy of Sciences who oppose the ability of the Census Bureau to plan mission to revise and extend his re- projected polling scheme. There are and prepare for the year 2000 census, marks.) other panels you can say the same kind and it would undermine the constitu- Mr. MICA. Mr. Chairman, this is not of thing for. tional responsibility that James Madi- a complex issue. This is an issue about August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7201 the very basis of our representative Sciences concluded, ‘‘It is fruitless to con- On a party-line vote the committee’s Re- form of government. You do not have tinue trying to count every last person with publicans moved to give the Census Bureau to have a Harvard degree to understand traditional census methods of physical enu- only half of its funding for next year and to what the Constitution says. Article I, meration.’’ [Report of the Panel on Census release the rest next March—if and when Requirements in the Year 2000 and Beyond, Congress has voted on how the census should Section 2, says the actual enumeration Committee on National Statistics, 1995; U.S. be conducted. This was a blatant and dan- shall be made. The 14th Amendment Department of Commerce, Bureau of Census, gerous move to keep the bureau from even says counting the whole number of per- Report to Congress ‘‘The Plan for Census planning to implement statistical sampling sons in each State. 2000,’’ August 1997] as a counting method. I defy anyone to come and show me Dr. Barbara Bryant, Director of the Census It’s important that the Census Bureau be where the Constitution, this is the Bureau under Former President Bush wrote fully funded from the get-go in fiscal 1999 be- in a letter to Speaker Gingrich, ‘‘[O]ur social cause much of the agency’s vital preparatory Constitution, where it says we conduct and economic development as a nation will polling, we conduct statistical sam- work for 2000 needs to be done early in the be served best by striving for the most accu- year—regardless of how the sampling issue pling, we conduct statistical methods. rate census possible. In every decade, that finally gets decided. Offices must be leased, We are spending $4 billion to conduct will be one which combines the best tech- employees hired, questionnaires printed and the census to determine our represent- niques for direct enumeration with the best computers bought—which can’t happen effi- ative form of government and who known technology for sampling and estimat- ciently without full funding. Moreover, if comes here and represents the people, ing the unenumerated.’’ [Dr Barbara Bryant there are delays approving a second tranche the very foundation of our democracy. of the University of Michigan Business of funding in March, offices will have to be School’s National Quality Research Center The very least we can do is count each closed and employees let go, making a in a letter to Speaker Gingrich, 5/12/97] botched census even more likely—again, re- and every individual. The American Statistical Association stat- Two thousand years ago, citing Luke gardless of how the sampling issue is re- ed, ‘‘It is unwise to prevent the use of ‘statis- solved. 2, Verses 1 through 7, in those days tical sampling,’ which is a long established The responsible way to handle the sam- Caesar Augustus published a decree or- and fundamental component of statistical pling issue is to let the Supreme Court de- daining a census of the world, and then science . . . it is essential to obtain as accu- cide whether or not use of modern statistical they counted, 2,000 years ago, every rate a measure as is possible using the best methods violates the constitutional mandate statistical tools available at the time of a of an ‘‘actual enumeration’’ of the popu- person. Today we can do at least the census. The environment and methodologies very same for representative govern- lation each decade. We do not see how the are different today from those 200 years ago, Court can possibly decide that it does in ment. and they will be different again in the 21st Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, we view of the changes that have previously century. We urge you to support using the been made in the census. Until 1970, census- have come a long way in 2000 years. latest scientific methods to assure that the takers actually went around counting the Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to yield Census 2000 results are the best current number of persons in households. Since then, 1 minute to the distinguished gentle- knowledge and science can provide.’’ [ASA written questionnaires have been the main woman from New York (Mrs. MALONEY) Letter, 6/13/97] counting method, supplemented by personal The General Accounting Office said it is Mrs. MALONEY of New York. Mr. visits. It’s been conclusively determined that ‘‘encouraged that the Bureau has decided to both methods systematically undercount the Chairman, I thank the gentleman for sample those households failing to respond population, especially in minority and poor yielding me time. to census questionnaires rather than con- communities. So the Census Bureau wants to Mr. Chairman, earlier my colleague ducting a 100-percent follow-up as it has in supplement visits and mailers with sampling from Florida mentioned to the gen- the past . . . Sampline households that fail to achieve a more accurate count. to respond to questionnaires produces sub- tleman from Florida (Mr. MILLER), ‘‘I We’d bet that the Court will find that what stantial cost savings and should improve do not trust you.’’ the Framers meant by ‘‘actual enumeration’’ final data quality.’’ [1997] I would like to really respond to was ‘‘a real count’’ of the population—as op- some of the statements that the gen- Department of Commerce’s Inspector Gen- eral, Frank DeGeorge, remarked, ‘‘The Cen- posed to guesswork or political logrolling— tleman from Florida (Mr. MILLER) has sus Bureau has adopted a number of innova- to determine distribution of Congressional made on this floor and in the many tions to address the problems of past cen- seats and government benefits. But we could meetings we have had in the Commit- suses—declining accuracy and rising costs. be wrong. If so, there won’t be sampling in tee on Census. He has often referred to One innovation, which we fully support, is 2000. If the court decides that sampling is OK, though. Republicans will have no legiti- a book called ‘‘How to Lie about Sta- the use of statistical sampling for non-re- sponse follow-up.’’ [October 1995] mate reason to oppose the practice. To block tistics’’ written by Darrell Huff, and he it, they’d have to say they want minorities uses this as an example in his argu- The National Research Council concluded, ‘‘Change is not the enemy of an accurate and to be undercounted—a disgraceful propo- ments against the use of modern sci- useful census; rather, not changing methods sition that’s unsustainable politically or entific methods. as the United States changes would inevi- morally. The GOP has every right to want Well, I decided not only to read the tably result in a seriously degraded census.’’ sampling to be conducted in an honest, pro- book, but to call the author. And, guess [The Panel to Evaluate Alternative Census fessional manner. But it’s covered this prob- what? He supports modern scientific Methololgies, ‘‘Preparing for the 2000 Census: lem by creating a bipartisan census over- Interim Report II,’’ June 1997] sight board. methods. I quote from Darrell Huff: ‘‘I So, we urge the full House—or the Senate— do not think there is any controversy The Population Association of America’s President, Douglas S. Massey, asserted, ‘‘The to assure full funding for census prepara- among professionals about the validity planned and tested statistical innovations tions. One Y2K problem is plenty. of sampling studies or statistical meth- [in the census] . . . have the overwhelming ods. They are universally used and in support of members of the scientific commu- [From the Washington Post, July 15, 1998] some cases they are the only methods nity who have carefully reviewed and consid- GAMES WITH THE CENSUS possible.’’ ered them. If their use is severely limited or The House Appropriations Committee is Mr. Chairman, I will put into the prohibited, the 2000 Census planning process scheduled today to take up the bill that con- RECORD quotes from leading experts on will be obstructed, and the result could be a tains funds for the year 2000 census. It ought statistics and quotes from editorial failed census.’’ [June 1996] to provide full funding for the kind of census the administration has proposed—first a nor- boards across the Nation, including [From Roll Call, July 16, 1998] Barbara Bryant, former Director of the mal count, then the use of sampling and Y2K II other statistical techniques to determine Census Bureau. There’ll certainly be hell to pay if the na- how many people were missed and adjust the CENSUS 2000: EXPERTS SUPPORT AN ACCURATE tion’s banking, power and communication final figures accordingly. That’s the only CENSUS USING STATISTICAL SAMPLING systems shut down because computers con- way to combat the increasing undercount of The National Academy of Sciences re- fuse the year 2000 with the year 1900. Govern- lower-income people and minority groups es- solved in 1995 that, ‘‘[P]hysical enumeration ment will get blamed for not doing enough in pecially that has skewed the census in recent or pure ‘counting’ has been pushed well be- advance to handle the problem. But at least years. yond the point at which it adds to the over- public officials will be able to say that the But the Republican leadership doesn’t all accuracy of census. . . .Techniques of sta- disaster was not originally of their making. want to do it. They argue that sampling is il- tistical estimation can be used, in combina- That’s not the case with the second Y2K legal, in that the Constitution requires an tion with the mail questionnaire and reduced meltdown that’s impending: a failed 2000 ‘‘actual enumeration,’’ and that even if not scale of follow-up of nonrespondents, to Census, which took another step toward re- illegal it is suspect and susceptible to manip- produce a better census at reduced costs.’’ ality yesterday in the House Appropriations ulation. They also worry that a census ad- And again in 1997, the National Academy of Committee. justed to eliminate the undercount could H7202 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 cost them seats and, conceivably, even con- missed about 1.2 percent of the population. say to minorities or poor people. Is that trol of the House in the next redistricting. In 1990, it missed 1.8 percent. That would not what GOP leaders mean to concede? Any On the other hand, they don’t want to be put be particularly alarming but for the fact party that feels it has ideas that can com- in the position of seeming in an election year that the count consistently missed certain pete for the minds of voters shouldn’t worry to advocate less than full rights for minority groups more than others. It undercounted about the prospect of having more Ameri- groups and the poor. blacks by a whopping 4.4 percent, for exam- cans counted, no matter where they live. To avoid that, they worked out a deal last ple. Republicans in Congress worry that ac- The bottom line is that the census should year with the administration. This year’s ap- tually counting those folks next time would be as accurate as possible. Instead of fighting propriations bill would be for six months result in some congressional districts more to cheat cities like Buffalo by perpetuating only. They would thus be ensured of another likely to vote Democratic. undercounts of certain populations, the GOP chance to vote on the issue after the elec- CONSTITUTION PROVIDES FOR INNOVATION should be fighting with ideas that can at- tion; meanwhile they would have more time The National Science Foundation and a tract those newly-counted Americans. to seek a ruling from the courts. At the same host of experts on the census have rec- time, preparations for a census including ommended the use of sophisticated statis- [From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, June 14, sampling could go forward, and when the big tical sampling methods to complement ac- 1998] vote finally came, the administration would tual enumeration in order to achieve a more CENSUS SENSE—THE USE OF ‘‘SAMPLING’’ IS have a hostage—both sides would, in a accurate count, and the administration plans SCIENTIFIC AND CONSTITUTIONAL sense—in that the census issue, because of to do that. Since 1790, the United States has con- the appropriations’ placement in a bill fund- Republicans have raised the spurious claim ducted a census every 10 years as required by ing three departments, would be intertwined that the Constitution requires actual enu- the Constitution. As difficult and error- with those three departments (State, Jus- meration. The Constitution mandated actual prone as this process always has been— tice, Commerce), and thus the conduct of for- enumeration only in the first census, how- George Washington and Thomas Jefferson eign affairs and most federal law enforce- ever. It states: ‘‘The actual enumeration thought the first count was too low—the ment. A veto over the census issue would in- shall be made within three years after the task has become more difficult as the nation volve a broader government shutdown for first meeting of the Congress of the United has become bigger and more mobile. Unless which neither party would want to be re- States, and within every subsequent term of an adjustment is made, the 2000 census sponsible. ten years, in such manner as they shall by threatens to be the most inaccurate yet. That was the deal. The Republicans now law direct.’’ The manner that Congress by The record for error was set in 1990—the propose to get out from under it by putting law should direct should be enumeration plus first census in recent history to be less accu- just the funding for the decennial census on statistical sampling, using every proven sta- rate than the one before. The Census Bureau a six-month basis. Nor would they provide tistical technique at the government’s dis- estimates that 10 million people were missed even all the funding needed for the six posal. in the 1990 census and 6 million were double months. Next spring they’d be able to hand counted. Thus the census undercounted ap- the president a take-it-or-leave-it propo- [From the Buffalo News, June 15, 1998] proximately 4 million people. The Bush ad- sition—fund the census on their terms or not MAKE THE CENSUS AN ACCURATE COUNT ministration rejected requests to adjust the at all—with no cost to themselves in terms Why are Republicans afraid of a more accu- figures. of shutting down other functions of govern- rate census? Republicans are again resisting adjust- ment. In the meantime, they would foul up, It’s the question that remains after the ments, this time in the method to be used for for lack of sufficient funding, the normal courtroom wrangling the other day between the 2000 census. They oppose using sampling, preparations for the census. This would be to lawyers for House Speaker Newt Gingrich which the Census Bureau, the National Acad- avoid the awful prospect of an accurate and those representing cities like Buffalo emy of Sciences and the Clinton administra- count two years from now. Administration that have significant numbers of minorities tion say will make the count more accu- officials say the president will veto the cur- and poor people. rate—and cheaper. rent bill if it deviates from last year’s under- Gingrich was in federal court trying to The issue may seem arcane but the stakes standing. So he should. block the Census Bureau’s plans to use sta- are high. Of the $125 billion that went to tistical sampling methods that almost all state and local governments in 1990, about [From the Scranton Times, June 27, 1998] experts agree would make the 2000 headcount half involved calculations based on census KEEP POLITICS OUT OF CENSUS far more accurate than the 1990 attempt. For reasons having to do with everything data. And, of course, the census is used to de- Samuel J. Tilden surely wished there had termine the apportionment of U.S. House been an accurate census way back in 1870. If from distrust of government to the tran- siency rates of the poor, the traditional seats, a fact that worries the GOP because there had, you see, he would have been elect- the census disproportionately undercounts ed president of the United States in 1876. door-to-door effort to count people every 10 years misses lots of minority and poor Amer- pro-Democratic minorities. Mr. Tilden, who had broken up the Tweed Naked self-interest, however, is dressed up Ring in New York City, went on to become icans. Most of them live in urban cities like Buffalo and New York. With a variety of fed- in respectable arguments. Two lawsuits have governor of New York (and later, the chief been filed to prevent census sampling, one of benefactor of the New York Public Library). eral and state aid programs pegged to popu- lation figures, cities and states that are the them brought by House Speaker Newt Ging- And, in the presidential election of 1876, he rich. The main contention is that sampling actually received more popular votes than victims of census undercounts miss out on money they need and deserve. is unconstitutional, because Article 1, Sec- his Republican opponent, Rutherford B. tion 2, of the Constitution requires that an Hayes. Equally important, the census counts also affect the drawing of congressional districts. ‘‘actual enumeration’’ be made. In the Electoral College, however, Mr. To read this section as saying that sam- Hayes received one more vote than Mr. That, in turn, impacts on elections and helps determine which party controls the House pling is banned as a supplement to actual Tilden, and became president. Only later did counting is absurd. As the Census Bureau scholars discover that, because of an error in and state legislatures. The technical dispute is over the ‘‘enu- itself notes, the Justice Department has the 1870 census, the Electoral College votes meration’’ called for in the U.S. Constitu- given an opinion on sampling on three occa- had not been properly distributed, and that tion. Republicans insist that the term means sions—during the Carter, Bush and Clinton Mr. Tilden should have been elected. there must be an actual head count and no administrations—each time concluding that That is a dramatic example of the impact sampling is constitutional. of the census, even 122 years ago. Today, the sampling. The Census Bureau, cities and minority Because the opposition has been so over- census retains the potential for those kinds groups, arguing the other side point to ac- stated, the average American could be for- of problems but it is even more important, companying language saying the census given for assuming that the Census Bureau affecting the life of virtually every Amer- shall be conducted ‘‘in such manner’’ as Con- intends to go out and use a few strategic ican. Census data are used for everything gress directs. Logic dictates that the framers samples in lieu of a count, much like public from establishing congressional districts, to would never have included that language if opinion or TV rating pollsters. That is far distributing federal funds, to controlling the they were mandating only one way to con- from truth. test-marketing of new products. duct the census and meant to leave no room Census forms will still be mailed out— GOP WORRIED ABOUT CONGRESSIONAL SEATS for improvements, such as through sampling. short forms to five out of six households and Unfortunately, as the 2000 Census draws But the argument really is more about po- a long form for the sixth. Just as in 1990, near, the only issue that matters in Congress litical power than logic. Republicans pri- when only 65 percent of the forms were re- is the determination of congressional dis- vately fear that a census that reveals more turned, census workers will go out and try tricts. Republicans who now control Con- minorities and poor people could lead to a and reach those who did not respond. gress actually are arguing against accuracy redrawing of legislative districts in ways But because experience shows that it is im- in the 2000 count, with largely spurious that threaten GOP office holders. That could possible to contact everyone (and expensive claims. shift the balance of power in the House or in to try), the census workers will aim to reach It is now known that the 1990 Census was some state legislatures. a minimum of 90 percent of the households in the first one since 1940 to be less accurate Of course, such a fear seems to assume each census tract. The difference will be im- than the one before it. In 1980, the census that Republicans feel they have nothing to puted on the basis of the data of those who August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7203 were reached in follow-up visits. In addition, every front door can’t be visited by follow-up let the experts in the Census Bureau apply a sample of 750,000 households nationwide head counters, particularly in tightly packed their apolitical expertise. will be made as a safety check on the cal- urban areas. culations. The count came up so short in 1990 (at [From the New York Times, Jan. 17, 1998] Sampling is not weird science; many ex- least 10 million) that the Census Bureau de- TAKING LEAVE OF THE CENSUS perts in the field favor the method. It also vised a plan for using sampling methods to The resignation of the Census Bureau’s Di- has ample precedent. As it is, the Census Bu- arrive at a more accurate estimate next time rector, Martha Farnsworth Riche, does not reau takes 200 sample surveys each year. around, in 2000. Sampling is an almost uni- bode well for hopes that the 2000 Census will Some sampling in a major census was done versally accepted statistical tool. But Re- be more accurate than the flawed effort in publicans in Congress have dug their heels as long ago as 1940. 1990. Ms. Riche, a respected professional de- in—no sampling! As a panel from the National Research mographer, says she has accomplished her Council observed, ‘‘It is fruitless to continue Why? Sampling’s critics may say it’s be- cause the Constitution specifies an ‘‘actual goal of redesigning the census process, but trying to count every last person with tradi- regrettably she will not see the difficult task tional census methods of physical enumera- enumeration.’’ But the Constitution also says that the counting shall be done ‘‘in such to completion. Her departure robs the agen- tion.’’ Census day 2000 is April 1. The nation cy of the leadership needed to resist political will be ill-served if partisan politics ob- manner’’ as Congress directs. There’s noth- ing barring techniques like sampling. The efforts to hijack the census. structs the use of the best way to get the Ms. Riche has had to battle fierce political most accurate count. real issue here is political, not constitu- tional. Some in the GOP don’t really want a opposition from Republicans on the use of statistical sampling to supplement the tradi- [From the Chicago Tribune, June 6, 1998] more accurate count of the hardest-to-find Americans, the poor and new immigrants tional head count in the upcoming census. THE WISDOM OF CENSUS SAMPLING who typically vote Democratic. Larger num- The 1990 Census, which did not use sampling, Trying to count every one of the 260 mil- bers in those categories could affect the po- was the most costly in history and yet lion-plus people who reside in the United litical character of congressional districts missed 10 million Americans and counted 6 States is a literally impossible task. No mat- allotted to states after 2000, when the new million twice or in the wrong place, accord- ter how much time, money and effort the census becomes the basis for reapportion- ing to analyses by the National Academy of Census Bureau expends, it can never hope to ment. Specifically, it might become harder Sciences. That is because census counts de- get a perfectly accurate count. In the 1990 ef- to create ‘‘safe’’ Republican House seats. pend entirely on locating people at specific fort, the bureau concluded, it missed some But the effects of an undercount go beyond addresses. New immigrants, those in shared 8.4 million people and counted 4.4 million representation. They can slow the distribu- housing, migrant workers, the homeless, the people not once but twice. And relying on old tion of a range of federal assistance pro- poor and young people tend to be under- techniques, the count is getting steadily less grams, since localities partake according to counted. As these populations grow, particu- accurate. their populations. Beyond governmental con- larly in larger cities, the traditional count- That’s of some importance, since congres- cerns, businesses assessing markets and re- ing approach has become less and less accu- sional seats and federal money are divided up searchers analyzing society rely on census rate. by population. but it is a deeply divisive numbers. Professional statisticians and economists, issue in Washington. After 1990, the calls for improvement were including experts convened by the National The Clinton administration and its allies loud. The sampling procedures drawn up by Academy, have said that taking a sampling in Congress, along with the National Acad- the Census Bureau are a far cry from ‘‘guess- of those who do not return their census emy of Sciences and the great majority of ing,’’ as some charge. The counting process forms by mail and using that sample to esti- experts in the field, favor a census Bureau would begin with the traditional mailed cen- mate the uncounted population would be far plan to use a statistical method known as sus questionnaire, sent to every dwelling on more accurate than sending field workers ‘‘sampling’’ to estimate the millions of peo- a master address list for the country. In 1990, out to make fruitless door-to-door counts. ple who escape the old-fashioned head count. about 65 percent of households responded. Ms. Riche has been a sensible proponent of Republicans, fearful that most of these peo- Follow-up interviewers will contact a large this plan. ple are the sort who tend to vote Demo- number of those who don’t respond, with an But Republicans have fought sampling be- cratic, are resisting that suggestion. They emphasis on areas with high rates of non-re- cause they believe that the missing millions have filed a lawsuit challenging the method sponse. The bureau hopes this will boost the could turn out to be minorities living in on constitutional grounds and, if they lost in total contacted to 90 percent. areas that vote Democratic, possibly giving court, they hope to block it with legislation. But that leaves 10 percent uncounted, and Democrats an advantage since census figures The president raised the volume on the now the going gets tougher. This is where are used to draw state and Federal legisla- issue last week with a speech in Houston— sampling would have its biggest impact. A tive districts. In a compromise deal ham- where, he said, the last census missed some sample of 25,000 census ‘‘blocks’’ would be mered out between the White House and Re- 67,000 people. By this estimate, sampling chosen for a second close, physical canvass- publican leaders last November, the Census would cut the number of people which are ing of every residence—a step that wouldn’t Bureau was allowed to go forward with a missed by the census to just 300,000. It would be practical for the whole country. The re- small dress rehearsal using both sampling also save money. sults of this canvass would be compared to and traditional counting techniques this Republicans claim the use of this method the earlier head count. ‘‘Estimation factors’’ year. In exchange, House Speaker Newt would violate the Constitution, which calls would emerge that could be used to correct Gingrich will be allowed to use government for ‘‘actual enumeration’’ of the population. counts in all blocks, with a close eye to cor- money to bring a lawsuit to stop the use of But the full provision says, ‘‘The actual enu- responding demographic features like home- sampling in the actual census in 2000. meration shall be made within three years ownership, race, and age of residents. Ms. Riche’s departure could leave the Cen- after the first meeting of the Congress of the This spring, the bureau will conduct some sus Bureau without a guiding force when the United States, and within every subsequent dress rehearsals of this system in geographi- sampling battle resumes in Congress after term of ten years, in such manner as they cally varied parts of the country. Congress this testing period. It appears unlikely that shall by law direct’’—which suggests that allowed for that much. But a full-scale gear- the Republicans will approve a nominee to legislators have considerable latitude. ing up for 2000 remains problematic. the post who supports sampling. Yet Ms. Nor is it obvious that ‘‘actual enumera- Preparations for the dress rehearsals have Riche bluntly says there is probably no one tion’’ means individually counting every per- underscored another problem facing the cen- in the professional community who thinks son, particularly when that is known to be a sus: It’s difficult to find workers to conduct an accurate census can be taken without seriously inadequate measure. George Bush’s the count. With today’s very low unemploy- sampling. The Administration may decide to Justice Department issued an opinion that ment, few jump at the short-term, no-bene- shy away from a confirmation battle by sampling is constitutional. A federal court is fits census jobs. This problem will be exacer- naming an acting director to the agency in- expected to issue a decision on these ques- bated if Congress orders a labor-intensive, stead. The politics that drives this debate tions next month. no-sampling national head count. now threatens to undermine what should be Meanwhile, the Census Bureau is having to But Republicans have not made the case a politically neutral government task. split its management—one part moving that a ban on sampling would make for the ahead with the sampling plan, another work- most accurate count possible. However in- [From the Los Angeles Times, Oct. 2, 1997] ing on contingency plans in case Congress convenient its political consequences for flatly rules out sampling. Congress’s own IF THE CENSUS IS FAULTY, THE CITIES WILL some, that goal has to take priority over ev- General Accounting Office just issued a re- PAY DEARLY—GOP OPPOSITION TO SAM- erything else. port warning that continuing indecision over PLING COULD HIT CALIFORNIA HARD When a congressional conference commit- [From the Christian Science Monitor, Apr. census methods could imperil the 2000 count. One other note: If the GOP leadership in tee takes up the debate in coming days over 28, 1998] Congress has its way and demands an ‘‘ac- how to conduct the 2000 census, the Senate DOWN FOR THE COUNT? tual’’ count, the price could be at least $1 version of the bill should prevail. That ver- Every census of a vast country like the billion higher than the sampling approach. sion would sensibly permit the Census Bu- United States is an estimate. Millions don’t For a more sensible, and accurate census, reau to use scientifically sound sampling respond to the mailed census forms, and Washington’s politicians should back off and methods to augment the direct count, thus H7204 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 avoiding an undercount like the 1990 fiasco entific, statistical, computer sampling tech- licans on Capitol Hill are dead-set against that probably cost California a couple of niques to augment the traditional head procedural changes they think could cost seats in the House of Representatives and up count. The National Academy of Sciences them control of the U.S. House. to $1 billion in federal population-based supports this approach. So does the Clinton The arguments against changing the cur- funding. administration. But House Republicans plan rent system are flimsy. They contend the If conference action fails to eliminate the to block the reform when the census spend- U.S. Constitution’s mandate of an ‘‘enumera- House ban on funding for statistical sam- ing bill comes up for a vote later this month. tion’’ of Americans every 10 years implies pling, President Clinton needs to make good At stake is the potential loss of up to 24 Re- ‘‘counting one by one.’’ U.S. courts have on his threat to veto the appropriations bill publican seats in the House, some political ruled otherwise, maintaining that enumera- that funds the Commerce, State and Justice analysts say. But the fundamental right to tion means making the most accurate count departments, a measure to which the House equal representation should not rise or fall possible, period. attached its sampling ban. House Repub- on such political stakes. Some Republicans also suggest that statis- licans let the government shut down in a If all California residents are counted in tical sampling could be subject to manipula- similar standoff last year. Are they prepared the next census, the state could gain one or tion by the Clinton administration in 2000. to do that again? two congressional seats and a larger, fairer That is irresponsible fearmongering. The The Constitution requires a decennial cen- share of the billions in federal funds that are Census Bureau has a proud history of statis- sus. This head count, which is nearly as old parceled out on the basis of population. tical professionalism and independence from as this nation, is becoming increasingly in- Undercounts tend to miss immigrants and politics, and should be relied on to resist any accurate because of the changing face of ethnic and racial minorities, poor people and attempt to undermine its accuracy. America. The growth of hard-to-count popu- children. Transiency is a problem. To count The limited use of statistical sampling lations such as immigrants, the urban poor more of the hard-to-reach population, the planned by the Census Bureau has the enthu- and, in some areas, the rural poor frustrates Census Bureau plans to send out thousands siastic backing of the National Academy of an accurate tally where individuals are phys- of human counters and four mailings, includ- Sciences, the community of statisticians and ically counted. The 1990 census missed 834,000 ing forms and reminders. Forms will also be demographers and even President George residents of California, according to a census available at post offices, churches, conven- Bush’s director of the census in 1990, Barbara study completed after the official count. iences stores, homeless shelters and other Bryant, a respected Republican pollster. Un- That costly failure also denied many Califor- public places and through community doubtedly, Republicans who oppose the tech- nians the fundamental right to equal rep- groups. A toll-free telephone line will serve nique for the 2000 census use it themselves to resentation in Congress. That’s unjust. people who prefer to call in. Census officials get the most precise political data they can The House GOP leadership opposes sam- claim sophisticated computer software lay their hands on. pling, which is commonly used in public should eliminate double counting caused by opinion polling, on the grounds that it falls duplicate forms. This new community-ori- When Congress reconvenes next month, short in terms of accuracy, constitutionality ented approach would work even better in these naysayers will do their darnedest to and safeguarding against political manipula- tandem with computer sampling. deny this tool to the Census Bureau. Fair- tion. In taking that position, the GOP dis- The House Republican leadership opposes minded Republicans and Democrats must re- regards the scholarly assessment of the Na- the proposed methodology, which is com- sist them. Statistical sampling is a proven tional Academy of Sciences. monly used in public opinion polling, on the and efficient way to assure the most accu- Republicans call for a physical head count, grounds of accuracy, constitutionality and rate and honest count of Americans humanly which tends to favor affluent, married sub- potential for political manipulation. They possible. urbanites—the traditional Republican voter prefer a physical head count only, which base—over the poor, minorities, single peo- tends to favor married homeowners who live [From Newsday, June 16, 1997] ple and transients who dominate many cit- in suburbs—the traditional Republican voter THE NEXT CENSUS OUGHT TO COUNT ALL ies. Although the Justice Department in the vase—over single, transient, minority rent- AMERICANS last three administrations has interpreted ers who live in cities. The critics insist that the Constitution as allowing sampling, GOP the Constitution specifies an actual enu- The political truce that has finally allowed leaders insist that the document specifies an meration, although the Justice Department the flood-relief measure to move through actual enumeration and they refuse to pro- in the three past administrations has inter- Congress despite Republican objections over ceed without a constitutional test in the Su- preted that language to allow sampling and statistical methods to be used in the 2000 preme Court. the National Academy of Sciences offers Census was only temporary. The census fight On this issue, the Republicans aren’t con- scholarly approval. won’t go away because it isn’t really about stitutional purists, they’re partisans. The The purely political stakes are high for statistics. It’s about politics, of the worst only heads they are counting are those in both critics and supporters of sampling. The kind. the GOP column. Ultimately this debate is heads the Democrats and Republicans want For years, census officials and other statis- not about population figures, it’s about poli- counted are those represented on their side tical experts have agreed the census has tics. If all Americans are counted, according of the aisle. Still, accuracy, not politics, undercounted minorities, immigrants and to some projections, additional congres- should be the key test for the 2000 census. poor people in the nation’s inner cities and sional districts will be required in areas Sampling is part of a sound strategy for rural areas. But Republicans have long op- dominated by minorities and the poor, who gaining an accurate count. posed techniques to get a more accurate traditionally vote Democratic. Changes in measure: They believe the people who would political boundaries could cost the GOP up [From the Atlanta Constitution, Aug. 1997] be counted would likely be Democrats, or at to a dozen seats—and perhaps its majority in POWER STRUGGLE BEHIND CENSUS DEBATE the least would enhance cities’ political the House—some analysts say. Those are the strength relative to more Republican-ori- A long-simmering fight on Capitol Hill numbers that fuel this partisan controversy. ented suburbs. over how the United States counts its citi- If the Republican majority succeeds in zens in 2000 may strike many Americans as That’s why, before the 1990 Census, then- forcing the Census Bureau to rely on out- arcane. What difference does it make, they Commerce Secretary Robert Mosbacher dated methods, the GOP will probably save may wonder, whether the Census Bureau overruled the census director and ordered several seats. But that victory would be tries to count every nose or instead uses sta- that there be no adjustment for the achieved at the expense of a level playing tistical sampling techniques to fill in the undercount. The result: The 1990 Census was field, especially in California. The California gaps in its tallies? the least accurate ever, with upwards of congressional delegation, Democrats and Re- It could make a big difference. The census 200,000 uncounted in New York City alone publicans alike, should support the census of 1990 undercounted U.S. population by an and the loss of billions of dollars in federal takers in the effort to gain a complete count. estimated 4.7 million people, the majority of aid to some states, localities and school dis- Democracy is not served if the numbers whom are poor people in urban or rural areas tricts. don’t add up. and often are hard to detect through tradi- Now the bureau is preparing for the next tional means of census-taking. A more accu- census, and intends to use some statistical [From the Los Angeles Times, Sept. 4, 1997] rate census would have required federal pro- sampling techniques to take a better meas- THE NEXT CENSUS HAS TO SEEK ACCURACY, grams to redistribute funds in proportion to ure. The approach has been endorsed by NOT POLITICAL GAIN—MODERN TECHNIQUES the population findings. three separate panels of the National Acad- CAN ENSURE FAIRNESS FOR CALIFORNIA More to the point, an exact count would emy of Sciences and several groups of profes- California lost, big time, in the 1990 census. have meant changing the political map of sional statisticians. The Census Bureau believes that a severe U.S. House districts—probably to the advan- The Clinton administration is backing the undercount missed 834,000 residents, costing tage of Democratic candidates because the numbers crunchers, and it is right. Repub- the state a House seat and billions of federal undercounted Americans—the poor and mi- licans, panicked they might lose congres- dollars. norities—are typically Democratic constitu- sional seats with a more accurate inner-city To prevent another huge undercount in encies. count, intend to fight again. They are acting 2000 and to take a more accurate measure- And that is the crux of the dispute over the out of self-interest, not the national inter- ment, the Census Bureau wants to use sci- methods of the next census. Some Repub- est. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7205 [From the Bangor Daily News, July 27, 1997] Republican who’s appalled at his leadership’s Counting every American is physically and 2000 AND COUNTING stubbornness and shortsightedness. financially impossible. The census is con- ‘‘It’s embarrassing to have my party op- ducted largely by mail backed by enumera- To many Americans, one of the most puz- posed, supposedly on scientific grounds, to tors pounding the streets. Even so, many are zling things about the Beltway brawl last something scientists support,’’ Shays said still missed, largely among city dwellers, the month over disaster relief was the insistence the other day. ‘‘Politically, it’s a mistake. poor and minorities, who are presumed to be by Republican leadership that help for flood- The big gainers from a better 1990 census Democrats. ed North Dakotans be tied to Census 2000. would have been the West and the South— No one really knows. Some Republicans be- The census? That boring decennial na- defintely not Democratic strongholds. Lead- lieve a more accurate count would actually tional head count? That mundane, constitu- ership is dead wrong on this.’’ favor the GOP by catching up with the explo- tionally mandated enumeration of every Dead wrong, but there’s time to get right. sive growth of the Sun Belt. man, woman and child? What’s the big deal The Census Bureau will stage a dress re- The count is critical because the decennial and what’s the problem? hearsal of the new techniques in a few se- census determines who gets how many House Well, the big deal is the census is a very lected regions next year. Congress should seats and who gets what percentage of fed- big deal, if for no other reason than that it give the trial run a fair hearing and then de- eral aid. determines how many members of Congress, cide either to go with a head count that is To ensure a more accurate count, the Cen- and thus how much clout, each state gets. accurate and affordable or to stick with the sus Bureau plans to use statistical samples, The problem is that the 1990 census, while re- exorbitant and flawed. As it stands, Census revisiting some of the households that fail to spectably accurate overall, revealed a con- 2000 is a disaster waiting to happen. answer mail questionnaires and revisiting tinuing and unacceptable trend: certain certain neighborhoods. The bureau says the groups, rural Americans and blacks espe- [From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, July 19, extrapolations will produce a count that cially, are habitually undercounted and the 1997] misses only 0.1 percent of the population. gap is growing. GOP PLAYS GAMES WITH THE CENSUS Statistical sampling is a tested technique, And, the census is getting extraordinary refined to a level of great accuracy, and its The battle over the 2000 census is heating expensive. The last one cost $2.6 billion, with use in other surveys, both private and gov- up again in Congress. Republicans insist on much of that going to conduct house-to- ernment, goes unremarked. house follow-ups on the 35 percent of Ameri- an actual count of each and every Amer- However, a group of congressional Repub- cans who did not mail back their initial ican—something that has long proved to be licans is determined to block any use of sta- forms. The Census Bureau estimates Census impossible. The Census Bureau wants to use tistical sampling. In this, they are wrong— 2000, if done with 1990 techniques and if it at- statistical sampling to account for the last ‘‘dead wrong,’’ says Rep. Christopher Shays tempts to correct the chronic undercount, 10 percent of the population that’s hard to (R-Conn.), co-chairman of the census caucus. could run as high as $4.8 billion. find and routinely missed. The bureau is In one other respect, they are right: Statis- Congressional leadership has made it clear right. tical sampling can be prone to political ma- there is no way they’ll spend that much, yet, But this week, the House Government Re- nipulation, and certainly the stakes are high paradoxically, leadership also is staunchly form and Oversight Committee issued a enough to make it worthwhile for someone opposed to a proposal the Census Bureau has statement attacking statistical sampling, to try. to save as much as $1 billion by augmenting while a House Appropriations subcommittee Better their efforts be directed to ensure the follow-up with sampling and statistical in funding the bureau’s normal operations that the statistical sampling is subject to analysis. for next year prohibited any of the money stern, independent, outside scientific scru- With overblown rhetoric that would cause being used for statistical sampling. tiny and audit. The census must not only be most folks to blush, opponents call the plan, This is just plain bad faith. Earlier this accurate but must be seen to be fair and ac- which has the endorsement of the esteemed year, Republicans tried to force President curate. National Academy of Sciences, a ‘‘risky Bill Clinton to accept a ban on statistical scheme of statistical guessing.’’ This from sampling by including it in a disaster relief [From the Houston Chronicle, June 23, 1997] bill. Mr. Clinton parried and forced them to the same politicians who use sampling and ACCURACY A MUST—MUCH RIDING ON CORRECT drop it. In return, the Census Bureau prom- statistical analysis to gauge the public’s CENSUS COUNT FOR HOUSTON mood before every election, who use these ised to report in 30 days the details of just how statistical sampling would work. That In Congress, even the method for counting proven and finely boned techniques to de- the American people is regrettably politi- clare victory five minutes after the polls deadline hasn’t yet arrived, but Republicans are going ahead with their prohibition any- cized. With the 2000 Census approaching, Re- close. publicans and Democrats are at odds, imag- Unconstitutional, they say. That sacred way, making the matter a clearly partisan issue, which it is, of course, since Democrats ine that, over what method the Census Bu- document requires an actual enumeration. reau should use to count the nation’s popu- Yes, it does, but if the Constitution were fol- might benefit by statistical sampling while Republicans won’t. lation. lowed to the letter, felons could buy machine Republicans want to physically count each So Republicans don’t care about the facts. guns off the shelf and any Mormon male with and every one, while the Democrats favor But they do care about losing congressional enough hair on his chest could have 16 wives. using statistical sampling, a method never seats if those people who are routinely Were they to speak today, the Founders before used but one Census officials believe missed—mainly minorities and children—are might say ‘‘Golly, we had no idea the coun- will yield a more accurate count. fully counted. There’s no question that an try would get so big, the population so mo- For years, the Census Bureau has infa- actual body count will miss some of them, as bile and so suspicious of government. Just mously undercounted the population, par- it did in 1990, when 4.7 million people or 1.8 get most accurate tally possible.’’ ticularly in Texas. In the 1990 count, more percent of the population wasn’t counted, in- The most undercounted segment of the than 4 million people in the country—an es- cluding 67,000 Missourians and 162,000 Illi- population is black America and, as the re- timated 500,000 in Texas—were missed. cent revisitation of the abominable noisans. Some 5 percent each were Hispanics, Undercounting the population is not incon- Tuskegee Syphilis Study reminded us, African-Americans and Indians. sequential. Texas and other states where Statistical sampling, widely used by poll- blacks have just cause to be wary when undercounts were greatest lost out on addi- sters, marketers and sociologists, can over- someone from the government comes knock- tional House seats and, more important, bil- come this problem. Several committees of ing on the door to ask a lot of personal ques- lions of federal dollars ranging from Medic- the National Academy of Science have en- tions. Reluctance to count them better aid to highway construction funds. State of- dorsed it, and the bureau is eager to use it. raises a spectre of racism the GOP doesn’t ficials believe missed heads in the 1980 Cen- It may be reasonable for Congress to wait for need and the nation can’t abide. sus cost Texas roughly $600 million in federal a detailed explanation of how statistical GOP leadership says the main reasons money. That is funding that, in fairness, the sampling will be applied. It is unreasonable they’re against sampling is that the census state of Texas cannot afford to concede to rush to judgment now. An accurate count is used to determine everything from con- again. gressional districts and the distribution of is too important to be jeopardized by par- The Census has been particularly inept at federal money to the makeup of state legis- tisan politics. counting inner-city minorities and the poor. latures and local school boards, so the Clin- An estimated 5 percent of all Hispanics and ton administration will find a way to manip- [From the Memphis Commercial Appeal, blacks were not counted in 1990. In Houston, ulate the numbers to its advantage. July 19, 1997] where Hispanics and blacks account for more Certainly, this administration is no NATIONAL HEAD COUNT than half of the population, that’s a major stranger to the concept of manipulation, but To insist that the nation’s census in 2000 be problem. the charge is a little hard to take from the done by tapping every American on the head, Republicans argue that the Constitution Party of Watergate, the mother of all manip- so to speak, is to ensure a deliberate mandates that every American be physically ulations. A bipartisan approach to funding undercount. counted. However, doing so is a practical im- the census and a nonpartisan approach to Yet that’s the position of some conserv- possibility. As well, maintaining the status overseeing it is the logical solution. ative Republicans—for a not very honorable quo with the traditional count contradicts But logic is exactly what’s missing here. reason. They fear a more accurate count the GOP’s movement to make government Rep. Christopher Shays of Connecticut is one would favor the Democrats. more accountable. H7206 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 Understandably, House Republicans are government’s demographic techniques, the with the census. Following the main head being dutifully protectionist about their 2000 census could be the least accurate to count in the year 2000, special census takers slight seat margin, one that they feel will be date. Inner cities and rural areas will be par- will go into selected census tracts to deter- threatened by more minorities being count- ticularly susceptible to a worsening mine how many people were missed. Then ed. undercount. the Census Bureau will make adjustments. But Texas Republicans should know better Capitol Hill Republicans aren’t fazed. They Already the decision is being swamped in than most the stakes riding on an accurate fear that changing the status quo could un- phony constitutional and mathematical ar- count. Houston has a great deal at stake dermine them and help the Democrats— guments, mostly made by congressional Re- with the accuracy of the next Census, and which is why the disaster relief funding bill, publicans. political party interests shouldn’t take a the larger piece of legislation in which the Contrary to their claim, the Constitution front seat over the greater interests of the sampling proposal is hidden, did not come up does not bar use of techniques to supplement community as a whole. for a vote before Congress adjourned for the means normally used to take the census. Memorial Day recess. Thus the year 2000 census should be no dif- [From the Houston Chronicle, June 4, 1998] To be sure, The Dallas Morning News has ferent legally than past ones. COUNTING HEADS—NO REASON TO KEEP U.S. in the past registered its concern over ‘‘cen- Mathematically, the science of statistics CENSUS INACCURATE sus adjustments.’’ Still, concerns such as the can be extraordinarily accurate. Much of following have been answered one by one: The purpose of the U.S. census is to get the science, medicine and commerce depend on Accuracy. The 1990 census was the first to most accurate count possible. If using mod- it. be less accurate than its predecessor. Now, The fact that much of the objection is par- ern statistical sampling to augment the ac- even the Bush administration appointee who tisan is telling. It is based on the assumption tual head count makes the census more ac- oversaw the 1990 census has endorsed sam- that the majority of the undercounted popu- curate, who could reasonably object? pling as promoting accuracy. No one, but then politicians afraid of los- lations are among minorities who are pre- Constitutionality. The Constitution says sumptively Democrats. If so, a few congres- ing power do not always act reasonably. that all people shall be counted. But numer- Since Thomas Jefferson conducted the first sional seats might shift to democrats. ous legal experts believe that sampling is a U.S. census in 1790, census takers have Whether that is true or not, we would rath- reasonable option that would pass muster known that there are discrepancies between er have an accurate national profile than a with the Supreme Court. the actual number of residents and the num- count that is incorrect by errors of omission Politicization. Could sampling be suscep- for the sake of partisanship. ber counted in the census. Some people are tible to political manipulation by one party not counted; some are counted twice. or the other? That’s a risk anywhere in gov- Statistical sampling is nothing more than [From the Ft. Worth Star Telegram, May 14, ernment. Trust has to be placed in the pro- counting some neighborhoods twice to meas- 1997] fessionalism and integrity of civil service ure accuracy. It’s not a guesstimate that can CENSUS POLITICS professionals at the Census Bureau. be manipulated for partisan advantage. It The most important issue in this debate In case you don’t understand why there serves the same useful purpose as an audit of over how to conduct the census should be should be a flap about how to conduct the financial records to make sure the numbers achieving the most accurate census possible. national census in 2000, it’s because of two are correct. That will promote fairness and confidence in factors: In his visit to Houston Tuesday, President our political system. Toward this end— 1. The nation’s nose-counters apparently Clinton was right to say that the issue tran- whether on the basis of scientific accuracy have never been able to count everyone—not scends partisan politics: ‘‘We should all want or cost—objections to sampling are falling even in 1790, when America’s population was the most accurate method.’’ by the wayside, and rightly so. less than 4 million. Oddly enough, the best However, some Republicans believe, with- guess is that the 1990 Census failed to find out much evidence or logic, that a more ac- [From the Bakersfield Californian, May 28, approximately 4 million residents. The prob- curate count would significantly favor 1997] lem is that census-takers seem to be under- Democrats by counting urban residents that counting more each decade. NEW CENSUS SUPPLEMENT GOOD have been missed in the past. Congressional 2. Politics, plain and simple. More than 10 Republicans therefore oppose using statis- The plan by the federal Bureau of the Cen- years ago it became evident to professional tical sampling to make the count more accu- sus to supplement the actual national popu- politicians that the people the census was rate. lation count in the year 2000 with statistical missing were mostly urban minorities who They have little to fear from census accu- projections is a good one. The purpose is to might be counted upon to vote Democratic. racy. Only a couple of states might lose one make up for people who are missed. As a result, Democrats generally favor using The problem of under-representation of congressional seat each, and the number of scientific techniques (‘‘statistical sam- significant numbers of people has been con- residents who show up at the polls and vote pling’’) to make up for the undercount. Re- sistent and growing in recent census counts. Democratic will not increase no matter how publicans generally oppose it, insisting upon The primary purpose of the decennial cen- many residents are counted. an ‘‘accurate’’ head count that the National sus that is mandated by the U.S. Constitu- An accurate census serves all Americans Academy of Science says is impossible. tion is to apportion the 450 seats in the and harms no political party. True, state and According to one political newsletter, Re- House of Representatives among the states federal funding formulas would be signifi- publicans fear they might lose as many as 24 proportionally by population. An undercount cantly affected, but wouldn’t the nation be House seats to redistricting if statistical concentrated in a few areas could result in a better off if government spending were based sampling is used. change in congressional representation. upon accurate rather than grossly inac- The Constitution requires an ‘‘enumera- But the data from the census also is used curate population numbers? tion,’’ period. as the basis on which federal funds for a wide Politicians who argue for keeping the cen- So the question seems to be: Do we use sci- variety of programs worth an estimated $100 sus inaccurate place themselves in an unten- entific sampling in an effort to come closer billion are distributed to states and local- able position. In another context they would to the actual number of Americans, or do we ities. Areas with large, traditionally under- insist the sailors compute their approximate count heads and settle for knowing that the counted populations—often moniorities and position with a sextant and reject satellite census is as much as 2 percent off? immigrants—such as California and Kern technology accurate to a few yards. It is well to remember that the politicians County could lose millions of dollars of fed- who decry using a scientific sampling based eral program funds to which they are enti- [From the Dallas Morning News, May 29, on 10 percent of the uncounted homes are 1997] tled. States also use the information for how happy to stake their political futures on CENSUS—CONGRESS NEEDS TO FUND NEW they distribute funds locally, and the private polls that are based on much smaller APPROACHES sector uses the information extensively for samplings. As we said, this is now mostly Ah, spring, and a census taker’s fancy marketing research. about partisan politics rather than ‘‘enumer- turns to . . . statistical sampling methodolo- It is estimated that the error rate in the ating’’ the population. gies conducive to enhanced accuracy in the 1990 census averaged 1.6 percent nationally, decennial enumeration. How exciting. but was higher on average in California at 2.7 [From the Boston Globe, May 13, 1997] But hold on there. Knowing the actual pop- percent. It was higher than that in some For the first time in history, the 1990 Cen- ulation of the United States is very impor- areas of the state. sus was less accurate than its predecessor, tant indeed. Census figures serve as a basis Although the undercount among whites failing to find about 4 million Americans— for the allocation of congressional seats and nationally was less than 1 percent, for mi- roughly a million more than were under- the lines for congressional and state legisla- norities it ranged between 2.5 percent and 5 counted in 1980. tive districts. In a democratic republic, how percent (for Latinos). Thus, for areas with The Census Bureau’s plans to rectify this much more important can things get? Not readily growing minority and immigrant problem have suddenly become a hot issue in much. populations like Kern County, the error can Washington, not because of the proposed Yet civil service professionals at the Cen- be costly. sampling technique—professionals say it is sus Bureau are warning that unless Congress The problem is compounded because of a sensible and conservative—but because of extends the necessary funding to upgrade the decreasing rate of voluntary compliance politics. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7207 Most of those missed by the Census are How can we be sure we are right Kenneth Blackwell, the cochairman poor, both urban and rural; many are minori- when we are not counting people? What of the U.S. Census Monitoring Board, ties. They are not fictitious people whom bu- statistics reveal is very interesting, Treasurer for the State of Ohio, argues reaucrats theorize must exist; they are real but what they conceal is vital. A cen- that a better way than polling to re- people who live in real dwellings that the bu- tral problem with polling is the politi- reau knows to be occupied, but they have duce the undercount is to use adminis- failed to return mailed Census forms or an- cal temptation, which we have seen a trative forms to fill in the gaps. Forms swer the knock of enumerators. lot of in recent years, to adjust the re- filed with the government agencies Although many of them are not registered sults. Political objectives can shape that administer public programs are to vote, they are individuals who deserve to the assumptions that must be made to available with up-to-date information. be counted, to be recognized, and to be rep- frame any formula for making final For example, children under 18 rep- resented in public life. It is this last consid- rulings. That is why we are opposed to resent 52 percent of the undercount in eration that has caused a flap in Washing- it. 1990. Yet, as of 1996, Medicaid had ton. If a significant portion of the Michael Barone, the author of the undercount is restored, a number of congres- records on 18.3 million people 20 years sional districts—perhaps as many as two ‘‘Almanac of American Politics,’’ says, of age and under. A single mother dozen—may be redrawn in a way that is like- ‘‘This is a White House that had no struggling to make ends meet might ly to benefit Democrats. scruples about getting the INS to drop not have time to fill out her Census Republicans, led by Senate majority leader criminal checks on applicants for citi- form, but would certainly take the Trent Lott and House Speaker Newt Ging- zenship so that more Democrats could time to fill out Medicaid forms. We do rich, have asked Census director Martha be naturalized in time for the 1996 elec- not need polling, we need to count peo- Farnsworth Riche to abandon the proposed tions; why would it suddenly develop ple. sampling, but she has responded that it is scruples about adjusting Census num- the best hope for an accurate count. Con- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I am gress will not and should not pay for a mas- bers for political purposes?’’ very pleased to yield 2 minutes to the sive personal enumeration that would track George Will, in an op-ed piece, said very distinguished gentleman from down every last individual. ‘‘Clinton’s proposal for sampling—for- Ohio (Mr. SAWYER) to speak to this House Republicans may move this week to ever severing this constitutionally horse and buggy versus modern trans- attach a prohibition against this technique mandated exercise from its anchor portation debate that we have going on to a supplementary appropriation for disas- against politicization—comes in the here today. ter relief. The Senate backed off a similar context of Clinton’s lawlessness. Re- attachment, and the House should do the Mr. SAWYER. Mr. Chairman, let me garding the undeniable potential for clarify. Within just this past week, the same. political abuse of sampling, Clinton’s The goal should be clear: the most accu- GAO has testified before the Senate rate account possible, without excessive position is: ‘‘Trust me.’’ ’ That is Governmental Affairs Committee that made-up estimates that would help Demo- George Will, and both he and I say, no, the Census Bureau’s plan will improve crats and without an acknowledged thank you. We have tried that before. the accuracy of census counts for the undercount that helps Republicans. The The Clinton polling proposition will Nation, for States, for counties, for cit- country needs an accurate count of its resi- not work. The GAO and the Commerce ies, and even census tracts, which are dents regardless of political considerations. Inspector General said that, The Presi- the basic building blocks of our democ- dent’s sampling plan, his polling plan, b 1230 racy. They come to that conclusion be- is ‘‘high risk.’’ The Census Bureau Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 cause they know this has nothing to do tried polling in the 1990 Census and it with a poll. minutes to the gentleman from Louisi- failed. Despite this failure, the Clinton ana (Mr. LIVINGSTON), the very able and The plan is very different from a poll. administration is proceeding with a The Census Bureau will be making an distinguished chairman of the full polling plan that is five times as large unprecedented effort to contact vir- Committee on Appropriations. as 1990, and which must be accom- (Mr. LIVINGSTON asked and was tually every household in the United plished in half the time. given permission to revise and extend The Census Bureau’s own study States to fill out and return the Census his remarks.) shows polling is less accurate for cities questionnaire, and everyone who re- Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Chairman, and towns under 100,000 people, where sponds in all of the different ways, the hearing some of these speeches from the majority of Americans live. The unprecedented number of ways, will be the Democrat side, I have to believe President has threatened to shut down counted. They will not be thrown out. Beyond that, then, finally, sampling that I am in George Orwell’s ‘‘Animal the entire appropriations for the De- Farm,’’ and I am hearing doublespeak. partments of Commerce, Justice, and and statistical techniques would be A real count equals polling estimates. State, unless he gets his way. used to supplement that effort in two Yet, the words ‘‘enumeration’’ and ‘‘ac- That is a blatent attempt by the ways. First is in following up on those tual head counting’’ means under- President to gain political leverage, households that do not respond, and counting. Up is down, down is up. Non- but of course that is a trick that he has sending people to them. Then, sam- sense reigns. If they counted by head not employed before, by some ac- pling will also be used to help check on 2,000 years ago, we have come a long counts. The fact is, it is a violation of those who might still have been missed way, baby. We can estimate how many the agreement reached between the or miscounted, even with those new people are out there in the world. Speaker and the President last year. procedures. Mr. Chairman, 200 years ago they We should not take cops off the beat. If polls were taken in this way, with were a little behind the times, too. We should not shut down the courts. a major effort to contact everyone in They used the word ‘‘enumeration,’’ We should not hamstring our Nation’s the country, followed by a very large ‘‘actual enumeration’’ every 10 years to foreign policy over this problem. sample to account for those who did determine congressional seats and Republicans want and have provided not respond, followed by another large shape the districts for elected officials, the resources to count everyone, to quality check, the results would be both in Congress and all around the count everyone. How clear does it have vastly more accurate, not only than country in local offices, State legisla- to be? That is not Orwellian, that is any poll, but certainly than the 1990 tures and local school boards. not doublespeak; to provide the re- Census. They knew what they were talking sources to count everyone. None of this bears any resemblance about. They knew they had to go We have provided $107 million more to the way public opinion polls are around and count people. But that is than the President’s fiscal 1999 request. taken. That is why the American Sta- passe, because we are above that. Ac- We fenced off the last 6 months of Cen- tistical Association has been so ada- cording to the arguments by the mi- sus funding so that a decision on poll- mant in their finding that estimation nority, the Administration’s polling ing can and will be made in the spring based on statistical sampling, the use plan for the year 2000 Census is fine. It of 1999. That was the deal that the of these techniques to improve counts, would count 90 percent of the popu- Speaker and the President agreed to is a valid and widely used scientific lation, and estimate, estimate by poll- last fall. Is there an undercount? Was method. The President of that organi- ing, the remaining population. We can there an undercount in 1990? We can zation wrote that ‘‘The general attacks be sure we are right. address that, too. on sampling that the Census debate has H7208 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 called forth * * * are uninformed and tlewoman from California (Ms. Let me remind this Congress about a unjustified. The truth is the Members LOFGREN). recent study. Ninety-three percent of of these panels are pulled together by Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Chairman, cities scientists in America do not believe in their peers among the Nation’s leading and counties cannot afford an God. They said scientists do not believe experts on sampling large human popu- undercount in the next Census. I know in God because they are superintel- lations.’’ that from personal experience. Before ligent, they are so smart. Beam me up, My friend, the gentleman from Flor- coming to the Congress 3 years ago, I Mr. Chairman. Many of these scientists ida (Mr. MILLER), has said that he can served on the Board of Supervisors for cannot find a toilet. produce reliable and reputable academ- Santa Clara County for 14 years. We The bottom line is this: Every com- ics who disagree. The chairman and the worked hard during times of declining munity should be assisting to help con- president of the American Statistical county revenues to maintain vital duct a reliable head count Census. Association agrees that that is the services like health care for poor chil- b 1245 dren. case. Let me warn the Democrats, sam- But he writes that ‘‘Those whose Every city and county needs an accu- rate Census that counts everybody in pling is an axe that can cut both ways. names I have seen lack the expertise Those in fact who support it one day and experience in sampling that char- order to serve everybody, because each year Census data determines $180 bil- may oppose it another. Those who may acterize the panel members. Statistics, benefit one day may get ripped off the like medicine, has specialties; one does lion in Federal spending. It helps deter- mine money that goes into schools, other day. not seek out a proctologist for heart I just want to close out by saying transit systems, senior citizens’ cen- bypass surgery.’’ Congress should confine itself to some ters, and health care facilities. Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I am basic parameters, which include follow- People do not disappear when they pleased to yield 2 minutes to the dis- ing the Constitution. We were elected are not counted. When there is an tinguished gentleman from New Jersey and we took an oath to uphold the Con- undercount, as there was in 1990, local (Mr. PASCRELL), who has worked so stitution, not the charter of the United taxpayers end up paying for Federal hard on this issue. Nations or some scientific methodol- programs. That is why lawsuits were Mr. PASCRELL. Mr. Chairman, I ogy by a group of scientists who, in filed in California after the 1990 Census have heard pretty horrible things on fact, are not aligned with mainstream by both Democratic and Republican this floor, but I just heard the worst America in just their matters of theol- local officials, because an inaccurate that I have ever heard. To say that ogy. The world was once flat, all the someone has the time to fill out a Med- census is not fair to local taxpayers. scientists told us that. icaid form but does not have the time In 1990, the undercount in the State My community, they say, will be to fill out a census questionnaire of California was estimated to be over hurt without sampling. My community 834,000 people. After the last Census we misses the whole point. What if you will be hurt if we do not have an honest put our thinking caps on. The sci- never got a questionnaire in the first head count because, in the final analy- entists came together and they came place? Oh, there is the rub. sis, whoever is doing that sampling I have heard on this floor a tremen- up with a scientific recommendation some day might not like the makeup of dous amount of discussion with little for a scientific count. my district. I have heard a lot of discussion here anchor in reality. I have been in two I oppose this amendment. I urge that today, but I think the American people censuses. The enumerators worked we defeat it. are going to be able to figure out what Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I very hard to find those people who ei- is going on. Some people here are con- ther, one, did not fill out their ques- yield 2 minutes to the distinguished cerned that the people found through gentleman from Texas (Mr. GREEN). tionnaire, or two, never got one in the scientific methods might vote for first place. But in order to get to those (Mr. GREEN asked and was given Democrats. I do not know whether they permission to revise and extend his re- people, you have to know where they will or not, but out in the real world, live. You have to have a housing unit marks.) real local government officials of both Mr. GREEN. Mr. Chairman, I thank on your form. parties want an accurate count that my colleague from West Virginia for The secret, by both Democrats and the scientists can provide us, so we can yielding me this time. Republicans, and past administrations be fair to local taxpayers. I urge sup- I rise in support of the Mollohan have admitted this, the secret to get- port of the Mollohan amendment for amendment to ensure an accurate ting an accurate census is to have ac- that reason. count and the most cost-effective cen- curate addresses. In a five-family Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield sus in the year 2000. I am glad to follow house, if we have 22 mailboxes, that 1 2 ⁄4 minutes to the very able gentleman my good friend from Ohio, because I should give us a clue that we are not from Ohio (Mr. TRAFICANT). pray that we will have an accurate going to be able to do this by question- (Mr. TRAFICANT asked and was count so we are on the right side of naire alone. They missed the whole given permission to revise and extend theology. That is why this amendment point, and they do it deliberately. They his remarks.) is so important. do it deliberately. Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Chairman, I am glad the chairman of the Com- This is serious business we are talk- there is no one I respect more in the mittee on Appropriations agreed that ing about. We cannot call someone who House than the gentleman from West in 1990 there was an undercount. There ran the Census under President Bush Virginia (Mr. ALAN MOLLOHAN). He is was, not only in my district in Houston out of a Democratic liberal think tank. one of our great Members. I disagree but in the State of Texas and around Give me a break. She believes that with him on this. the country. there is a way, through statistical This debate is about the Constitu- In its current form the Commerce, methods, to come up with an accurate tion. If the Congress of the United State, Justice appropriations act would sample. We need to count as many as States wants to conduct the Census by hinder the 2000 census. It funds the cen- we can possibly find, and as possibly sampling, sampling, the Congress of sus only for 6 months and it continues have filled out census forms, but there the United States should be able to the funding only after Congress deter- will always be those groups or families pass a two-thirds amendment vote to mines the counting method to be used. within units who are never contacted; the Constitution of the United States. We are not going to be here from Octo- who do not even know, perhaps, that a I chose to come to the floor for sev- ber, November or December, maybe census is even going on, for all kinds of eral reasons. Number one, I am hearing half of January, so we are going to set reasons, some real and some unreal. all these plaudits about scientists. If back the census planning even in the But get to the heart and the practice of the Founders thought so much about year 1999. doing a census. Then we can come to scientists, we would be electing sci- This action is shortsighted and will an agreement on what is acceptable entists, not citizen politicians. People hinder the Bureau’s attempt to plan and what is not acceptable. should start being proud of being a pol- and prepare for the census. The Mollo- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I am itician. We do the work of the people in han amendment will strike that re- pleased to yield 2 minutes to the gen- America. striction. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7209 It has been estimated that the 1990 than half of the population, that’s a major missed. That is enough people to fill census undercounted my home town of problem. every seat at Soldier Field in Chicago. Houston by 67,000 people. It is unfair Republicans argue that the Constitution Those empty seats in our census cost mandates that every American be physically that these people were not counted. counted. However, doing so is a practical im- Chicago hundreds of millions of dollars The State of Texas lost a billion dol- possibility. As well, maintaining the status in Federal assistance. It costs your lars in Federal funds because of the quo with the traditional count contradicts community millions of dollars, too. undercount. That is a billion dollars in the GOP’s movement to make government Three presidential administrations, title I funding, road construction, sen- more accountable. the National Academy of Sciences and ior citizen services. The undercount Understandably, House Republicans are the General Accounting Office, all was so severe that President Clinton being dutifully protectionist about their looked at the problem of undercounts actually came in June to the district slight seat margin, one that they feel will be and determined that using modern sta- threatened by more minorities being count- that I am honored to represent to high- ed. tistical methods would help eliminate light the needs of an accurate census But Texas Republicans should know better these mistakes in the future and avoid count. than most the stakes riding on an accurate the kinds of undercounts that resulted Dr. Mary Kendrick, Director of the count. Houston has a great deal at stake by using the old model. City of Houston Health Department, with the accuracy of the next Census, and The reasonable approach is to use the said at that meeting that accurate cen- political party interest shouldn’t take a same methods that we use when we sus count data is critical to public front seat over the greater interests of the compute agricultural production, health. She noted that the census data community as a whole. crime statistics, unemployment fig- on child poverty helps determine nutri- [From the Houston Chronicle, June 4, 1998] ures, as well as countless other govern- tion and children’s nutrition health mental statistics. COUNTING HEADS—NO REASON TO KEEP U.S. Let us use common sense. Support programs. CENSUS INACCURATE the Mollohan amendment which does Many people are not easily counted, The purpose of the U.S. census is to get the whether they are in an urban area like most accurate count possible. If using mod- not place restrictions on its ability to mine because sometimes they fear the ern statistical sampling to augment the ac- provide a fair and accurate count. government, or maybe in a rural area tual head count makes the census more ac- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I like Montana they may not want to curate, who could reasonably object? yield 30 seconds to the gentlewoman send back that form that the govern- No one, but then politicians afraid of los- from Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE). ment sent, they may not want to an- ing power do not always act reasonably. Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Since Thomas Jefferson conducted the first swer that door when that enumerator Chairman, I thank the gentleman from U.S. census in 1790, census takers have Kentucky for yielding me the time. comes by and knocks on that door. But known that there are discrepancies between they still deserve to be counted, even if the actual number of residents and the num- I stand with the children. I support they do not want to be. That is why ber counted in the census. Some people are the Mollohan amendment. And then I this amendment is so important. not counted; some are counted twice. would like to convey to all of us words: The Houston Chronicle, on two sepa- Statistical sampling is nothing more than ‘‘I respectfully request that the cen- rate occasions, reported on the need for counting some neighborhoods twice to meas- sus numbers for the State of Georgia be a fair and accurate census in their edi- ure accuracy. It’s not a guesstimate that can readjusted to reflect the accurate popu- be manipulated for partisan advantage. It torial. The June 23 editorial said, ‘‘But lation of the State so as to include the serves the same useful purpose as an audit of over 300,000 which were not previously Texas Republicans should know better financial records to make sure the numbers than most the stakes riding on a fair are correct. included. Without the adjustment, mi- and accurate count. Houston has a In his visit to Houston Tuesday, President nority voting strength in Georgia will great deal at stake with the accuracy Clinton was right to say that the issue tran- be seriously diluted. Based on available of the next census.’’ scends partisan politics: ‘‘We should all want information, without an adjustment to Mr. Chairman, I include for the the most accurate method.’’ compensate for the undercount, mi- However, some Republicans believe, with- RECORD the following editorials: norities in Georgia could lose two out much evidence or logic, that a more ac- State Senate seats and 4 to 5 House [From the Houston Chronicle, June 23, 1997] curate count would significantly favor seats. As a result of conversations with ACCURACY A MUST—MUCH RIDING ON CORRECT Democrats by counting urban residents that CENSUS COUNT FOR HOUSTON have been missed in the past. Congressional black legislators, it is my understand- ing that they have not only concurred In Congress, even the method for counting Republicans therefore oppose using statis- the American people is regrettably politi- tical sampling to make the count more accu- with this request but stated that they cized. With the 2000 Census approaching. Re- rate. believe it is required under the Voting publicans and Democrats are at odds, imag- They have little to fear from census accu- Rights Act.’’ ine that, over what method the Census Bu- racy. Only a couple of states might lose one Representative NEWT GINGRICH’s let- reau should use to count the nation’s popu- congressional seat each, and the number of ter to Robert Mosbacher, Secretary of residents who show up at the polls and vote lation. Commerce, April 30, 1991. Republicans want to physically count each Democratic will not increase no matter how many residents are counted. Let us get away from Republican pol- and every one, while the Democrats favor itics. Vote for statistical methods and using statistical sampling a method never An accurate census serves all Americans before used but one Census officials believe and harms no political party. True, state and the Mollohan amendment. Let us count will yield a more accurate count. federal funding formulas would be signifi- every single American, no matter who For years the Census Bureau has infa- cantly affected, but wouldn’t the nation be they are, and count the children. mously undercounted the population, par- better off if government spending were based Mr. Chairman, I rise to speak on the rule ticularly in Texas. In the 1990 count, more upon accurate rather than grossly inac- which will govern how we proceed on H.R. curate population numbers? than 4 million people in the country—an es- 4276, the Commerce Justice, State Appropria- timated 500,000 in Texas—were missed. Politicians who argue for keeping the cen- sus inaccurate place themselves in an unten- tions bill. I am grateful to the Rules Committee Undercounting the population is not incon- for allowing the Mollohan amendment to be sequential. Texas and other states where able position. In another context they would undercounts were greatest lost out on addi- insist that sailors compute their approxi- considered which would restore full funding for tional House seats and, more important, bil- mate position with a sextant and reject sat- a fair and accurate census. lions of federal dollars ranging from Medic- ellite technology accurate to a few yards. The subject of the Census was addressed aid to highway construction funds. State of- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I in Article I Section 2 of the Constitution of the ficials believe missed heads in the 1980 Cen- yield 1 minute to the distinguished United States as it states, ``The actual Enu- sus cost Texas roughly $600 million in federal gentleman from Illinois (Mr. meration shall be made within three years money. That is funding that, in fairness, the BLAGOJEVICH). after the first Meeting of the Congress of the state of Texas cannot afford to concede Mr. BLAGOJEVICH. Mr. Chairman, United States, and within every subsequent again. the 1990 census was the first U.S. cen- The Census has been particularly inept at Term of Ten Years.'' counting inner-city minorities and the poor. sus to be less accurate than the one be- With that goal in mind the Bureau of the An estimated 5 percent of all Hispanics and fore it. Approximately 6 million people Census conducted the first National Census in blacks were not counted in 1990. In Houston, were not counted in the 1990 census. In 1790. The census also places our population where Hispanics and blacks account for more the City of Chicago 68,000 people were in a particular location as of census day so H7210 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 Congress can be reapportioned and the state subsequent term of ten years, in such manner him for the very hard work he has done and local governments redistricted while fed- as they shall direct by Law.'' If the Repub- working with the gentleman from Flor- eral monies can be apportioned. licans would step aside from politics, clothed ida to develop an honest and a direct The ability to use scientific methods during in the Constitution we could all absolutely sup- approach to a very serious problem. the 2000 Census will insure that any under- port the Mollohan amendment and support Let me say to my colleagues in the counting which may occur in this census be- statistical methods for the count. Democratic Party, I am really puzzled cause of sparsely populated regions of states Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield by what has happened on the issue of like Texas or hard to count urban populated such time as he may consume to the the census, because I think it comes areas like Houston, can be held to a minimum. gentleman from Missouri (Mr. BLUNT). from a complete misunderstanding of Undercounting the results of the 2000 Cen- (Mr. BLUNT asked and was given what we are trying to accomplish. sus would negatively impact Texas' share of permission to revise and extend his re- The census is at the center of the federal funds for block grants, housing, edu- marks.) American political system. It is the de- cation, health, transportation and numerous Mr. BLUNT. Mr. Chairman, I rise in vice which came out of the Constitu- other federally funded programs. opposition to this bill. I do not think tional Convention by which the Found- In 1990, the city of Houston was under- there is a single Member of this House ing Fathers said the House of Rep- counted by 3.9 percent in that year's Census that would allow polling to be used to resentatives would represent people. using the current ``head count'' method which decide election results. We should not And they then faced the challenge in only recorded 1,630,553 residents. That is allow it to be used for this purpose ei- 1787, but how do you represent people why I have personally joined a lawsuit along ther. unless you know where they are? And with the mayor of Houston to allow statistical I rise today in strong opposition to the Mol- they then faced the challenge in a very methods to be utilized by the census bureau lohan amendment. primitive country of how do you find to be able to count every person. Republicans are prepared to fund an un- all these people who are scattered, Based on the scientific method that was precedented effort to count all Americans be- without telephones, without e-mail, prepared for that Census, but never used it is cause we believe that every American counts. without faxes, without a U.S. Postal estimated that over 66,000 Houstonians were In fact, Chairman ROGERS has provided Service as of 1787. They said, well, once missed by the 1990 Census. $100 million more than the President re- every 10 years we will organize a mass African-Americans, Hispanics, Asians, and quested to help ensure that every American is effort and we will count every person. American Indians were missed at a much counted. The term in the Constitution was ‘‘ac- greater rate than whites. The 1990 Census The Clinton administration plan will delete tual enumeration.’’ undercounted approximately 4 million people, millions of people who turn in their census Now, they went through actual enu- about the same number who were counted all forms on time. These people will be removed merations in 1790, 1800, 1810, 1820. This together in the first census 200 years ago. at random because population polling indi- went up every decade. It was required. Even more troubling, this last census was, for cates that their demographic group is over- It is actually written in the Constitu- the first time in history, less accurate than its represented. tion that we shall have an actual enu- predecessor. The use of modern statistical Americans have the right to participate in meration. And somehow in the most methods to count in the 2000 census will the census and have their completed census primitive of circumstances, without eliminate undercounting the poor children by form included in the count. The Clinton admin- Xeroxes, without fax machines, they 52% and Hispanics and African-Americans. istration cannot arbitrarily decide to delete mil- managed to count people. The undercount was 33 percent greater lions of people from the counts based on pop- Then in the modern era several than the undercount in the 1980 census. ulation guesstimates. things happened. One is, big govern- Every American deserves to be counted in The Clinton administration wants to play pol- ment became so incompetent, so bu- the Census. We must have the most accurate itics with the census. I urge you to oppose the reaucratic, that in fact it broke down. census possible. The 1990 census was the Mollohan amendment and support an accurate The census of 1990 was the first time in first in history to be less accurate than its and honest census. many years that we actually did an in- predecessor. It missed millions of Ameri- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 adequate job of counting. cansÐpredominantly children and minorities. minute to the gentleman from Florida The second thing happened. We devel- In fact, homeless children are particularly vul- (Mr. MILLER), chairman of the Commit- oped much higher standards of accu- nerable; without counting them there will be no tee on the Census. racy. seats in school for them, no immunizations for Mr. MILLER of Florida. Mr. Chair- A third thing happened, which is that them and no housing for them. man, there has been a lot of exaggera- some neighborhoods became harder to Virtually every expert agrees that the way to tion on the other side about what has count, largely for two reasons: one, be- get the most accurate census possible is by been done with the census. Let us cause some neighborhoods seemed dan- using modern scientific methods to supple- make sure we understand. gerous and people were reluctant to go ment the traditional head count. The Census First of all, the plan proposed by the back in them on a regular basis; and, Bureau's plan will not only produce the most President does not count 26 to 27 mil- second, because some neighborhoods accurate censusÐit will save literally hundreds lion people; does not count 26 to 27 mil- had substantial numbers of people who of millions of dollars. The Republican plan is lion people. These are going to be com- were illegally here and it was tricky to geared to undercount the people to their ad- puter-generated people, that they have go and knock on the door and say, ‘‘Hi, vantage. some smart computers and these smart I am from the government,’’ because Using the 1990 methods will cost close to a scientists over at the National Acad- people then tended to not answer the billion dollars more and still miss millions of emy of Sciences. The National Acad- door. Americans. emy of Sciences has a theory. The plan So there were undercounts to some Funding the Census Bureau for only six requires hundreds of thousands of peo- degree. We are also now dramatically months will cripple its ability to adequately ple to implement. more mobile, although the truth is, if plan and prepare for the largest peace-time We need a General Schwarzkopf to you went back to 1790 or 1830, this has mobilization undertaken by the U.S. Govern- run this issue, not a bunch of academ- always been a remarkably mobile ment. ics. That is what our goal is, to have an country, but we are now even more mo- The Mollohan amendment requires the Bu- accurate census, to count everybody. bile. People move around a lot. You see reau to continue planning for a Census wheth- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield this, for example, in school registra- er it uses modern statistical methods, or the the balance of my time to the gen- tions where kids will come and go in older, less accurate ones, until there is a de- tleman from Georgia (Mr. GINGRICH), three month cycles rather than year finitive ruling from the Supreme Court. We distinguished Speaker of the House. long cycles. need a statistical method, we need an accu- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Having said all that, I want to make rate Census in 2000. from Georgia (Mr. GINGRICH) is recog- clear what our position is. We are pre- Finally, the Constitution states specifically, nized for 41⁄4 minutes. pared to work with the Democratic ``the actual Enumeration shall be made within Mr. GINGRICH. Mr. Chairman, I Caucus to provide the resources to three years after the first meeting of the Con- thank my friend from Kentucky for count accurately every person in gress of the United States, and within every yielding time to me, and I commend America. We are prepared, if necessary, August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7211 to hire the Post Office, which has the sign it so we start with the poorest Office and the National Academy of Sciences highest level of accuracy in knowing neighborhoods. We will design it so we both endorse statistical sampling to avoid an neighborhoods. We are prepared to overachieve and we double, triple and inaccurate census. Memos from the Depart- start by counting the poorest neighbor- quadruple count, if necessary, but we ment of Justice under both Presidents Bush hoods first so we have the highest level will get it done. But that would be fair. and Clinton state that the use of sampling is of controlled, managed accuracy. We That would be accurate. That would both Constitutional and legal. The only major want to ensure that every single Amer- ensure we actually had enumerated organization that opposes statistical methods ican is counted, every American. real people. in the 2000 census is the Republican National But here is the danger. There is a But please do not ask the people of Committee. theory. The theory is you could take the United States to rely on politicians Partisan politics cannot play a role in Cen- polls. First of all, if you look at the ac- controlling pollsters to invent virtual sus 2000. We must prevent the majority party curacy of the polls taken last year in people to get a grossly inaccurate from attempting to strip the American people the Presidential campaign, they were count on behalf of some political party, from their Constitutional right to equal rep- often off by as much as 10 points. Most because that undermines the Constitu- resentation. We can start by supporting the of you have been elected in races where tion and that undermines the very po- Mollohan amendment. you know from your own polling you litical process. Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON of Texas. were often off, up or down, by 5 or 10 I urge a ‘‘no’’ vote on the Mollohan Mr. Chairman. I urge all my colleagues to sup- points in the poll. You can take polls amendment. port the Mollohan amendment. A fair and ac- theoretically. Mr. STARK. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in curate census is necessary if we are to be a But there are two dangers with tak- support of the Mollohan amendment to H.R. country which stands for inclusion over exclu- ing polls. The first is, what works in 4276, the Commerce-Justice-State Appropria- sion. aggregate at a national level is absurd tions for FY 1999. The Mollohan amendment The infamous census of 1990 missed 4.7 at a local level. The mathematician at removes funding restrictions from the Census million peopleÐ1.8 percent of the population, the National Academy of Sciences Bureau so that they may continue with the compared with 1.2 percent in 1980 and 2.7 could say, gee, on aggregate if you are task at handÐproviding a fair and accurate percent in 1970. trying to measure 262 million people, Census 2000 for the American people. This undercount was not evenly distrib- artificially do not count people, so you The goal is clear. The only way to provide utedÐa disproportionate number of minorities, create an artificial universe to get an a fair and accurate count for the 2000 census children and renters in urban and rural areas accurate count of 262 million. That is through statistical sampling. The Repub- were missed. sounds theoretically fine. lican-led Congress insists on full enumeration In addition, the census cost us an exorbitant The flaw is, if you are trying to without the use of sampling. In addition, they amount of moneyÐ$2.6 million dollarsÐfor a count Cambodians, Serbians, and El are obstructing the success of the entire 2000 faulty, inaccurate count of Americans. Salvadorans in Los Angeles, polling is census by limiting its funds to only half of the This is upper income people are over- the worst possible way to do it because appropriated amount. This in turn may cause counted by an unknown number because of you get grotesquely inaccurate num- irreparable damage to the entire census, leav- completing their forms at their second homes bers. So you do not get an actual ing an accurate count beyond the realm of as well as their primary residences. I support count. You do not know who is actu- possibility. the methodology of statistical sampling. The ally there. What you get is some math- One might wonder why the majority party in- American Statistical Association and the Na- ematical theory that works nationally sists on wasting taxpayer's money to hinder tional Academy of Sciences has rec- and is grotesquely distorted at the such a vital component of the democratic ommended this methodology as the best and local level. process. Understandably, the majority party is cheapest way to count 90 percent of U.S. resi- There is a second problem. Who is afraid of losing control over the House of Rep- dents. going to be in charge of the polling? resentatives as we enter a new millennium. In Texas, we need all our residents counted, This is the whole base of the Founding Our Founding Fathers intended for population specially the Latino population. Fathers in the Federalist Papers and enumeration to provide for fair representation IN the Latino community, there was a 5% the Constitution. The current Sec- of the American people in the House of Rep- undercount in the 1990 census. this retary of Commerce, who is a man I ad- resentatives. This did not happen in the 1990 undercount has had significant negative ef- mire a great deal and worked with in Census and now we must take steps to cor- fects on Latino access to resources. passing the North American Free rect the problem. I urge my colleagues to support the Mollo- Trade Agreement, represents a family In the 1990, the Census numbers were over han amendment so that all our residents are who for many years had held office in 10 percent in error. This translates to 26 mil- counted, and not missed by the blinded eye. Chicago based on a machine. Chicago is lion mistakes. The 1990 Census under-count- Mr. THOMPSON. Mr. Chairman, the 2000 a city with a great history that you ed 8.4 million people and 4.4 million people census must be the most accurate census could vote for several lifetimes because were double-counted in the United States. In ever taken in American history. Period. I can you could vote long after you passed California alone, 834,516 people were not not understand the controversy that surrounds away. But at least in Chicago you had counted. This was the highest under-count in this issue. Everyone seems to agree that the to have lived; that is, you were in the the nation!! The people of California have most relevant, current scientific methods cemetery because you had once been been deprived of fair representation for the should be used to count every single man, alive. past eight years. woman, and child in this country. Now we have this new theory, which Of the various racial groups, the largest to So what is the problem? Why can certain is that politicians could simulate a vir- be under-counted were amongst the Hispanic members come to the floor and make the tual reality of virtual citizens who population with 5% of this group under- claim, ``we want to count everyone,'' when in have a virtual existence, except they counted. In addition, 4.4% of blacks and 4.5% actuality they have made no efforts to rec- would be translated by law so that you of Indian Americans were under-counted due ommend a method of enumeration that works literally would undercount real citi- to errors that statistical sampling can adjust for better than the statistical methods supported zens in order to invent virtual citizens. in the future. The economically disadvantaged by the American Academy of Sciences, the I think that transfers to politicians a and minorities are being excluded from valu- American Statistical Association, the Popu- level of power which none of the able federal programs. Under-counting means lation Association of America, and the Panel Founding Fathers would agree with. millions of federal dollars are lost for Califor- to Evaluate Alternative Census Methodologies So here is my offer to the President nia's 13th District as well as for districts at the National Research Council. and the Democratic Caucus. You work across the nation. The facts surrounding the 2000 census are with us and we will meet whatever I am not suggesting we replace direct count- simple and conclusive. We know that the 1990 standard is humanly attainable of ac- ing methods with modern statistical tech- census resulted in over one million Americans curately counting every person of niques. We should, however, supplement di- not being counted. Most of those individuals every ethnic background in every rect counting with sampling to ensure an accu- were people of African American, Latino, and neighborhood in the entire country. rate count. Two very reputable groups agree Asian descent. They were urban, poor and We will design it so we use, if nec- that statistical sampling should be used in the rural. We know that a large portion of the essary, postal employees. We will de- upcoming census. The General Accounting undercount consisted of children. We know H7212 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 that the 1990 census was not nearly as accu- million citizens were counted incorrectly, with Lipinski Neal Sherman Lofgren Oberstar Sisisky rate or representative as it should have been. a total of 4 million Americans not accounted Lowey Obey Skaggs As Members of Congress, it is our respon- for at all. Luther Olver Skelton sibility to work with the Census BureauÐnot The Republicans are scared that accounting Maloney (CT) Ortiz Slaughter against themÐto develop a method that will for all Americans will affect their chances at Maloney (NY) Owens Smith, Adam Manton Pallone Snyder count every American in this nation. Holding the polls. They would rather deny Federal Markey Pascrell Spratt the 2000 census hostage to ridiculous partisan funding to those in our country who need it Martinez Pastor Stabenow game will do nothing but undermine the legiti- mostÐyoung children and the poor, who are Mascara Payne Stark Matsui Pelosi Stenholm mate efforts being made to accurately enu- the most hard-hit groups in an undercountÐ McCarthy (MO) Peterson (MN) Stokes merate American citizens. than get an accurate picture for the next con- McCarthy (NY) Pickett Strickland Personally, I'm less concerned with the par- gressional redistricting. McDermott Pomeroy Stupak tisan tone this debate has taken than I am Now that the majority party has put the McGovern Poshard Tanner McHale Price (NC) Tauscher with counting the Mississippians who were sampling debate into the jurisdiction of the McIntyre Rahall Thompson missed in the 1990 census. More than 21,000 courts, the political arguments have become McKinney Rangel Thurman of the 55,500 Mississippian who were missed all but academic. Yet we still have language in McNulty Reyes Tierney in the last Census, 38%, were from Mis- Meehan Rivers Torres this bill that withholds half of the funding need- Meek (FL) Rodriguez Towns sissippi's Second Congressional District, the ed by the Census Bureau to prepare for the Meeks (NY) Roemer Turner District I represent. Let's look at who they 2000 Census. Menendez Rothman Velazquez were: 1.3% were White; 3.5% were African What are the Republicans afraid of? Are Millender- Roybal-Allard Vento McDonald Rush Visclosky American; 3.6% were Asian; 7.3% were Native they worried that the courts won't rule in their Miller (CA) Sabo Watt (NC) American; 4.8% were Hispanic; and 4.5% favor? Minge Sanchez Waxman were children. Join me in putting politics aside and allow- Mink Sanders Wexler The real, tangible impact of this debate has Moakley Sandlin Weygand ing the Census Bureau to go forward. I urge Mollohan Sawyer Wise been glossed over. According to the Census you to support Mr. MOLLOHAN's amendment. Moran (VA) Schumer Woolsey Bureau, my District has the third highest per- Morella Scott Wynn centage of people in poverty (37.7%). It has b 1300 Murtha Serrano Yates the fifth highest percentage of families in pov- Nadler Shays The CHAIRMAN. The question is on erty (31%), and the third highest percentage of NOES—227 the amendment offered by the gen- households in poverty (35.2%). This year, Aderholt Everett Leach tleman from West Virginia (Mr. MOL- some of the counties in my District have had Archer Ewing Lewis (CA) LOHAN). unemployment rates of 20% and higher. What Armey Fawell Lewis (KY) The question was taken; and the Bachus Foley Linder we are really talking about here, is that the Chairman announced that the noes ap- Baker Forbes Livingston 55,500 people in my state who were not Ballenger Fossella LoBiondo peared to have it. counted, represent children who were turned Barr Fowler Lucas RECORDED VOTE Barrett (NE) Fox Manzullo away form HeadStart, poor families who could Bartlett Franks (NJ) McCollum not get public housing, and other vulnerable Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I de- Barton Frelinghuysen McCrery constituencies who were turned away from re- mand a recorded vote. Bass Gallegly McDade ceiving forms of invaluable financial aid. A recorded vote was ordered. Bateman Ganske McHugh The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Bereuter Gekas McIntosh I know that many Members of Congress Bilbray Gibbons McKeon have adopted a real ``slash and burn'' mental- Resolution 508, the Chair will reduce to Bilirakis Gilchrest Metcalf ity when it comes to budgetary spending, but 5 minutes the minimum time for each Bliley Gillmor Mica electronic vote on the amendments Blunt Gilman Miller (FL) I refuse to be a hypocrite. I will say right here, Boehlert Gingrich Moran (KS) right now that if families and children in my that were debated last evening, on Boehner Goode Myrick District will positively benefit from federal which proceedings will resume imme- Bonilla Goodlatte Nethercutt spending, then show me where to sign up. diately after this 15-minute vote on the Bono Goodling Neumann Mollohan amendment. Boswell Goss Ney If there is a better method out there to con- Brady (TX) Graham Northup duct the census, then let's see it. Otherwise, The vote was taken by electronic de- Bryant Granger Norwood let's put an end to the grandstanding and the vice, and there were—ayes 201, noes 227, Bunning Greenwood Nussle not voting 7, as follows: Burr Gutknecht Oxley pontificating and count Americans. The time Burton Hall (TX) Packard for the Census Bureau to determine logistical [Roll No. 388] Buyer Hansen Pappas specifics for the next census is rapidly ap- AYES—201 Callahan Hastert Parker Calvert Hastings (WA) Paul proaching, and in layman's terms, ``it's time to Abercrombie Cummings Hamilton Camp Hayworth Paxon Ackerman Danner Harman put up or shut up.'' If there is another plan that Campbell Hefley Pease Allen Davis (FL) Hastings (FL) enjoys the wide spread support of the sci- Canady Herger Peterson (PA) Andrews Davis (IL) Hefner Cannon Hill Petri entific community, lt's see it. If there is another Baesler DeFazio Hilliard Castle Hilleary Pitts Baldacci DeGette Hinchey way of counting Americans at has been en- Chabot Hobson Pombo Barcia Delahunt Hinojosa dorsed by the Carter, Bush, and Clinton Ad- Chambliss Hoekstra Porter Barrett (WI) DeLauro Holden Chenoweth Horn Portman ministrations, please bring it forward. Becerra Deutsch Hooley Christensen Hostettler Pryce (OH) Once again, Mr. Speaker, I do not under- Bentsen Dicks Hoyer Coble Houghton Quinn Berman Dingell Jackson (IL) stand how anyone could be opposed to cor- Coburn Hulshof Radanovich Berry Dixon Jackson-Lee recting the undercounts that occurred during Collins Hunter Ramstad Bishop Doggett (TX) Combest Hutchinson Redmond the last census in minority, poor, urban and Blagojevich Dooley Jefferson Cook Hyde Regula rural communities. How can anyone be op- Blumenauer Doyle John Cooksey Inglis Riggs Bonior Edwards Johnson (WI) posed to counting the one-in-ten African- Cox Istook Riley Borski Engel Johnson, E. B. America males who were missed in the last Crane Jenkins Rogan Boucher Eshoo Kanjorski Crapo Johnson (CT) Rogers census, or support turning poor children away Boyd Etheridge Kaptur Cubin Johnson, Sam Rohrabacher Brady (PA) Evans Kennedy (MA) from public housing? Therein, Mr. Speaker, Davis (VA) Jones Ros-Lehtinen Brown (CA) Farr Kennedy (RI) lies the real debate. Deal Kasich Roukema Brown (FL) Fattah Kennelly AZIO DeLay Kelly Royce Mr. F of California. Mr. Chairman, I rise Brown (OH) Fazio Kildee Diaz-Balart Kim Ryun in support of Mr. MOLLOHAN's amendment. I Capps Filner Kilpatrick Dickey King (NY) Salmon Cardin Ford Kind (WI) am sure all of us can agree that the 2000 Doolittle Kingston Sanford Carson Frank (MA) Kleczka Census should be fair and accurate and in- Dreier Klug Saxton Clayton Frost Klink Duncan Knollenberg Scarborough clude everybody. But, for the past two years Clement Furse Kucinich Dunn Kolbe Schaefer, Dan Clyburn Gejdenson LaFalce the majority party has played politics with the Ehlers LaHood Schaffer, Bob Condit Gephardt Lampson Census and not allowed the Census Bureau to Ehrlich Largent Sensenbrenner Conyers Gordon Lantos Emerson Latham Sessions get on with their plan. Costello Green Lee English LaTourette Shadegg Tragically, the 1990 Census had the largest Coyne Gutierrez Levin Ensign Lazio Shaw undercount in history. It is estimated that 10 Cramer Hall (OH) Lewis (GA) August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7213 Shimkus Stump Wamp [Roll No. 389] Johnson, E. B. Norwood Skaggs Shuster Sununu Watkins Johnson, Sam Nussle Skeen Skeen Talent Watts (OK) AYES—158 Kanjorski Obey Skelton Smith (MI) Tauzin Weldon (FL) Ackerman Graham Morella Kasich Oxley Smith (MI) Smith (NJ) Taylor (MS) Weller Allen Gutierrez Murtha Kim Packard Smith (OR) Smith (OR) Taylor (NC) White Andrews Hall (OH) Nadler Kind (WI) Parker Smith (TX) Smith (TX) Thomas Whitfield Baldacci Hamilton Neal King (NY) Pastor Smith, Linda Smith, Linda Thornberry Wicker Ballenger Harman Oberstar Kingston Paul Snowbarger Snowbarger Thune Wilson Barcia Hefley Olver Kleczka Paxon Solomon Solomon Tiahrt Wolf Bass Hinchey Ortiz Klug Pease Souder Souder Traficant Young (AK) Becerra Hinojosa Owens Knollenberg Peterson (MN) Spence Spence Upton Young (FL) Berman Hoekstra Pallone Kolbe Peterson (PA) Spratt Stearns Walsh Bilbray Hooley Pappas Kucinich Petri Stearns Bishop Hoyer Pascrell LaHood Pickett Stenholm NOT VOTING—7 Blagojevich Hulshof Payne Lantos Pitts Stokes Clay McInnis Weldon (PA) Blumenauer Jackson (IL) Pelosi Largent Pombo Stump Cunningham Pickering Boehlert Johnson (CT) Poshard Latham Pomeroy Stupak Gonzalez Waters Bonior Johnson (WI) Rahall Levin Porter Talent Borski Jones Ramstad Lewis (CA) Portman Tanner Brady (PA) Kaptur Rangel Lewis (KY) Price (NC) Tauscher b 1320 Brown (OH) Kelly Reyes Linder Pryce (OH) Tauzin Burr Kennedy (MA) Rivers Lipinski Quinn Taylor (MS) Ms. RIVERS and Mr. OWENS Campbell Kennedy (RI) Roemer Livingston Radanovich Taylor (NC) changed their vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ Capps Kennelly Rothman Lofgren Redmond Thomas Cardin Kildee Roukema Lucas Regula Thompson So the amendment was rejected. Carson Kilpatrick Roybal-Allard Manton Riggs Thornberry The result of the vote was announced Castle Klink Royce Manzullo Riley Thune as above recorded. Clement LaFalce Rush Martinez Rodriguez Thurman Costello Lampson Sanchez Mascara Rogan Tiahrt SEQUENTIAL VOTES POSTPONED IN COMMITTEE Cummings LaTourette Sawyer McCollum Rogers Torres OF THE WHOLE DeGette Lazio Saxton McCrery Rohrabacher Traficant Delahunt Leach Schumer McDade Ros-Lehtinen Velazquez The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House DeLauro Lee Serrano McInnis Ryun Wamp Resolution 508, proceedings will now Dingell Lewis (GA) Shays McIntosh Sabo Waters resume on those amendments on which Doggett LoBiondo Sherman McKeon Salmon Watkins Meek (FL) Sanders Watt (NC) further proceedings were postponed in Ehlers Lowey Slaughter Engel Luther Smith (NJ) Metcalf Sandlin Watts (OK) the following order: Ensign Maloney (CT) Smith, Adam Mica Sanford Weldon (FL) Amendment No. 44 offered by the Eshoo Markey Snyder Millender- Scarborough Wexler McDonald Schaefer, Dan Whitfield gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. Ewing Matsui Stabenow Farr McCarthy (MO) Stark Miller (FL) Schaffer, Bob Wicker PALLONE); the amendment offered by Fattah McCarthy (NY) Strickland Minge Scott Wilson the gentleman from New York (Mr. Fawell McDermott Sununu Mollohan Sensenbrenner Wise Moran (KS) Sessions Wolf ENGEL); amendment No. 15 offered by Filner McGovern Tierney Foley McHale Towns Myrick Shadegg Woolsey the gentleman from California (Mr. Forbes McHugh Turner Nethercutt Shaw Yates ROYCE); amendment No. 3 offered by Fossella McIntyre Upton Neumann Shimkus Young (AK) the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Fox McKinney Vento Ney Shuster Young (FL) Frank (MA) McNulty Visclosky Northup Sisisky BARTLETT); and amendment No. 8 of- Franks (NJ) Meehan Walsh NOT VOTING—9 fered by the gentleman from Missouri Frelinghuysen Meeks (NY) Waxman (Mr. TALENT). Furse Menendez Weller Clay Fazio Maloney (NY) Gejdenson Miller (CA) Weygand Cox Ford Pickering AMENDMENT NO. 44 OFFERED BY MR. PALLONE Gephardt Mink White Cunningham Gonzalez Weldon (PA) The CHAIRMAN. The unfinished Gilchrest Moakley Wynn business is the demand for a recorded Gilman Moran (VA) b 1328 vote on the amendment offered by the NOES—267 Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts and gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. Abercrombie Clayton Frost Mr. FOLEY changed their vote from PALLONE) on which further proceedings Aderholt Clyburn Gallegly ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ Archer Coble Ganske were postponed and on which the noes So the amendment was rejected. prevailed by voice vote. Armey Coburn Gekas Bachus Collins Gibbons The result of the vote was announced The Clerk will redesignate the Baesler Combest Gillmor as above recorded. amendment. Baker Condit Goode Barr Conyers Goodlatte AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. ENGEL The text of the amendment is as fol- Barrett (NE) Cook Goodling The CHAIRMAN. The unfinished lows: Barrett (WI) Cooksey Gordon business is the demand for a recorded Bartlett Coyne Goss Amendment No. 44 offered by Mr. PALLONE: Barton Cramer Granger vote on the amendment offered by the Page 52, line 13, after the dollar amount, Bateman Crane Green gentleman from New York (Mr. ENGEL) insert the following: ‘‘(increased by Bentsen Crapo Greenwood on which further proceedings were $8,000,000)’’. Bereuter Cubin Gutknecht postponed and on which the noes pre- Page 52, line 25, after the dollar amount, Berry Danner Hall (TX) Bilirakis Davis (FL) Hansen vailed by voice vote. insert the following: ‘‘(increased by Bliley Davis (IL) Hastert The Clerk will redesignate the $8,000,000)’’. Blunt Davis (VA) Hastings (FL) amendment. Page 53, line 1, after the dollar amount, in- Boehner Deal Hastings (WA) sert the following: ‘‘(increased by Bonilla DeFazio Hayworth The text of the amendment is as fol- $8,000,000)’’. Bono DeLay Hefner lows: Boswell Deutsch Herger Amendment offered by Mr. ENGEL: Page 53, line 5, after the dollar amount, in- Boucher Diaz-Balart Hill sert the following: ‘‘(increased by Boyd Dickey Hilleary Page 47, line 11, after the dollar amount in- $8,000,000)’’. Brady (TX) Dicks Hilliard sert the following: ‘‘(increased by Page 54 line 18, after the dollar amount, in- Brown (CA) Dixon Hobson $5,000,000)’’. sert the following: ‘‘(reduced by $15,000,000)’’. Brown (FL) Dooley Holden Page 92, line 25, after the dollar amount in- Bryant Doolittle Horn sert the following: ‘‘(reduced by $5,000,000)’’. RECORDED VOTE Bunning Doyle Hostettler RECORDED VOTE The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Burton Dreier Houghton Buyer Duncan Hunter The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has been demanded. Callahan Dunn Hutchinson been demanded. A recorded vote was ordered. Calvert Edwards Hyde Camp Ehrlich Inglis A recorded vote was ordered. The CHAIRMAN. This will be a 5- Canady Emerson Istook The CHAIRMAN. This will be a 5- minute vote. Cannon English Jackson-Lee minute vote. The vote was taken by electronic de- Chabot Etheridge (TX) The vote was taken by electronic de- Chambliss Evans Jefferson vice, and there were—ayes 158, noes 267, Chenoweth Everett Jenkins vice, and there were—ayes 168, noes 259, not voting 9, as follows: Christensen Fowler John not voting 7, as follows: H7214 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 [Roll No. 390] Hoekstra McKeon Sessions [Roll No. 391] Hooley Meek (FL) Shadegg AYES—168 Horn Menendez Shaw AYES—137 Baesler Hefner Pallone Hostettler Metcalf Shays Andrews Hansen Paul Barcia Hill Pascrell Houghton Mica Shimkus Archer Hastert Paxon Barrett (WI) Hilliard Pastor Hunter Miller (FL) Shuster Armey Hayworth Pease Bass Hinchey Payne Hutchinson Moakley Sisisky Bachus Hefley Peterson (MN) Becerra Hinojosa Pease Hyde Murtha Skeen Ballenger Herger Petri Bereuter Holden Pelosi Inglis Myrick Skelton Barr Hill Pitts Berman Hoyer Pomeroy Istook Neal Smith (MI) Barrett (WI) Hilleary Pombo Berry Hulshof Porter Jackson (IL) Nethercutt Smith (NJ) Bass Hobson Portman Bilbray Jackson-Lee Price (NC) Jefferson Neumann Smith (OR) Berry Hoekstra Pryce (OH) Bishop (TX) Rahall Jenkins Ney Smith (TX) Bilirakis Hostettler Radanovich Blumenauer Johnson, E. B. Ramstad John Northup Smith, Adam Boehner Hulshof Ramstad Bonior Kanjorski Rangel Johnson (CT) Norwood Smith, Linda Camp Hutchinson Riggs Boswell Kelly Reyes Johnson (WI) Nussle Snyder Campbell Inglis Rogan Boucher Kennelly Riley Johnson, Sam Oxley Solomon Cannon Istook Rohrabacher Boyd Kildee Rivers Jones Packard Souder Chabot Jenkins Royce Brown (CA) Kilpatrick Rodriguez Kaptur Pappas Spence Chenoweth Johnson (WI) Ryun Brown (OH) Kind (WI) Roemer Kasich Parker Stearns Coble Johnson, Sam Salmon Capps Kucinich Roukema Kennedy (MA) Paul Stenholm Coburn Kasich Sanford Cardin LaFalce Roybal-Allard Kennedy (RI) Paxon Stump Collins Klug Scarborough Carson LaHood Rush Kim Peterson (MN) Stupak Cooksey Knollenberg Schaefer, Dan Castle Largent Sabo King (NY) Peterson (PA) Sununu Cox Kolbe Sensenbrenner Clement Lazio Sanchez Kleczka Petri Talent Crane Largent Sessions Clyburn Leach Sanders Klink Pickett Tauzin Crapo Latham Shadegg Coyne Lee Sandlin Klug Pitts Taylor (MS) Cubin Leach Shays Cramer Levin Sawyer Knollenberg Pombo Taylor (NC) Deal Linder Shimkus Cummings Lewis (GA) Schaffer, Bob Kolbe Portman Thomas DeLay Livingston Smith (MI) Danner Lofgren Schumer Lampson Poshard Thornberry Dickey LoBiondo Smith (NJ) Davis (IL) Lowey Serrano Lantos Pryce (OH) Thune Doolittle Lucas Smith, Linda DeFazio Luther Sherman Latham Quinn Torres Dreier Luther Snowbarger DeGette Maloney (NY) Skaggs LaTourette Radanovich Traficant Duncan Manzullo Stearns DeLauro Manton Slaughter Lewis (CA) Redmond Turner Dunn McCollum Strickland Dicks Markey Snowbarger Lewis (KY) Regula Upton Ehrlich McInnis Stump Dingell Mascara Spratt Linder Riggs Walsh Emerson McIntosh Sununu Dixon Matsui Stabenow Lipinski Rogan Waters Ensign McIntyre Talent Doggett McCarthy (MO) Stark Livingston Rogers Watkins Foley McKeon Thornberry Dooley McCarthy (NY) Stokes LoBiondo Rohrabacher Watts (OK) Fossella McKinney Thune Doyle McGovern Strickland Lucas Ros-Lehtinen Weldon (FL) Fox Metcalf Tiahrt Edwards McHale Tanner Maloney (CT) Rothman Weller Frelinghuysen Miller (FL) Upton Engel McKinney Tauscher Manzullo Royce White Ganske Moran (KS) Visclosky Ensign McNulty Thompson Martinez Ryun Whitfield Gibbons Myrick Wamp Eshoo Meehan Thurman McCollum Salmon Wicker Goodlatte Nethercutt Watkins Etheridge Meeks (NY) Tiahrt McCrery Sanford Wilson Goodling Neumann Watts (OK) Farr Millender- Tierney McDade Saxton Wolf Goss Ney Weldon (FL) Fawell McDonald Towns McDermott Scarborough Young (AK) Granger Norwood White Filner Miller (CA) Velazquez McHugh Schaefer, Dan Young (FL) Greenwood Nussle Whitfield Forbes Minge Vento McIntosh Scott Gutknecht Pappas McIntyre Sensenbrenner Ford Mink Visclosky NOES—291 Frank (MA) Mollohan Wamp NOT VOTING—7 Frost Moran (KS) Watt (NC) Abercrombie Christensen Furse Furse Moran (VA) Waxman Clay Kingston Weldon (PA) Ackerman Clayton Gallegly Ganske Morella Wexler Cunningham McInnis Aderholt Clement Gejdenson Gejdenson Nadler Weygand Gonzalez Pickering Allen Clyburn Gekas Gephardt Oberstar Wise Baesler Combest Gephardt Gordon Obey Woolsey Baker Condit Gilchrest Hall (OH) Olver Wynn b 1336 Baldacci Conyers Gillmor Hamilton Ortiz Yates Barcia Cook Gilman Harman Owens So the amendment was rejected. Barrett (NE) Costello Goode The result of the vote was announced Bartlett Coyne Gordon NOES—259 as above recorded. Barton Cramer Graham Bateman Cummings Green Abercrombie Campbell Evans AMENDMENT NO. 15 OFFERED BY MR. ROYCE Becerra Danner Gutierrez Ackerman Canady Everett Bentsen Davis (FL) Hall (OH) Aderholt Cannon Ewing The CHAIRMAN. The unfinished Bereuter Davis (IL) Hall (TX) Allen Chabot Fattah business is the demand for a recorded Berman Davis (VA) Hamilton Andrews Chambliss Fazio Bilbray DeFazio Harman Archer Chenoweth Foley vote on the amendment offered by the Bishop DeGette Hastings (FL) Armey Christensen Fossella gentleman from California (Mr. ROYCE) Blagojevich Delahunt Hastings (WA) Bachus Clayton Fowler on which further proceedings were Bliley DeLauro Hefner Baker Coble Fox postponed and on which the ayes pre- Blumenauer Deutsch Hilliard Baldacci Coburn Franks (NJ) Blunt Diaz-Balart Hinchey Ballenger Collins Frelinghuysen vailed by voice vote. Boehlert Dicks Hinojosa Barr Combest Gallegly The Clerk will redesignate the Bonilla Dingell Holden Barrett (NE) Condit Gekas amendment. Bonior Dixon Hooley Bartlett Conyers Gibbons Bono Doggett Horn Barton Cook Gilchrest The text of the amendment is as fol- Borski Dooley Houghton Bateman Cooksey Gillmor lows: Boswell Doyle Hoyer Bentsen Costello Gilman Boucher Edwards Hunter Bilirakis Cox Goode Amendment No. 15 offered by Mr. ROYCE: Boyd Ehlers Hyde Blagojevich Crane Goodlatte Page 51, line 9, insert ‘‘(reduced by Brady (PA) Engel Jackson (IL) Bliley Crapo Goodling $180,200,000)’’ after ‘‘$180,200,000’’. Brady (TX) English Jackson-Lee Blunt Cubin Goss Page 51, line 10, insert ‘‘(reduced by Brown (CA) Eshoo (TX) Boehlert Davis (FL) Graham $43,000,000)’’ after ‘‘$43,000,000’’. Brown (FL) Etheridge Jefferson Boehner Davis (VA) Granger Brown (OH) Evans John Bonilla Deal Green Page 51, line 12, insert ‘‘(reduced by Bryant Everett Johnson (CT) Bono Delahunt Greenwood $500,000)’’ after ‘‘$500,000’’. Bunning Ewing Johnson, E. B. Borski DeLay Gutierrez RECORDED VOTE Burr Farr Jones Brady (PA) Deutsch Gutknecht Burton Fattah Kanjorski Brady (TX) Diaz-Balart Hall (TX) The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Buyer Fawell Kaptur Brown (FL) Dickey Hansen been demanded. Callahan Fazio Kelly Bryant Doolittle Hastert A recorded vote was ordered. Calvert Filner Kennedy (MA) Bunning Dreier Hastings (FL) Canady Forbes Kennedy (RI) Burr Duncan Hastings (WA) The CHAIRMAN. This is a 5-minute Capps Ford Kennelly Burton Dunn Hayworth vote. Cardin Fowler Kildee Buyer Ehlers Hefley The vote was taken by electronic de- Carson Frank (MA) Kilpatrick Callahan Ehrlich Herger Castle Franks (NJ) Kim Calvert Emerson Hilleary vice, and there were—ayes 137, noes 291, Chambliss Frost Kind (WI) Camp English Hobson not voting 6, as follows: August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7215 King (NY) Nadler Shuster [Roll No. 392] Kilpatrick Mink Shaw Kingston Neal Sisisky Kim Moakley Shays Kleczka Northup Skeen AYES—151 Kind (WI) Mollohan Sherman Klink Oberstar Skelton Aderholt Goode Paxon King (NY) Moran (VA) Sisisky Kucinich Obey Smith (OR) Armey Goodlatte Pease Kleczka Morella Skaggs LaFalce Olver Smith (TX) Bachus Goodling Peterson (PA) Klink Murtha Skelton LaHood Ortiz Smith, Adam Baker Graham Petri Klug Nadler Slaughter Lampson Owens Snyder Barcia Gutknecht Pitts Knollenberg Neal Smith (NJ) Lantos Oxley Solomon Barr Hall (TX) Pombo Kolbe Northup Smith (OR) LaTourette Packard Souder Barrett (NE) Hansen Radanovich Kucinich Oberstar Smith (TX) Lazio Pallone Spence Bartlett Hastert Rangel LaFalce Obey Smith, Adam Lee Parker Spratt Barton Hastings (WA) Redmond LaHood Olver Snyder Levin Pascrell Stabenow Bilirakis Hayworth Riley Lampson Ortiz Spratt Lewis (CA) Pastor Stark Bliley Hefley Roemer Lantos Owens Stabenow Lewis (GA) Payne Stenholm Blunt Herger Rogan Latham Oxley Stark Lewis (KY) Pelosi Stokes Bonilla Hill Rohrabacher LaTourette Pallone Stenholm Lipinski Peterson (PA) Stupak Bono Hilleary Ros-Lehtinen Lazio Parker Stokes Lofgren Pickett Tanner Bryant Hoekstra Royce Leach Pascrell Strickland Lowey Pomeroy Tauscher Bunning Hostettler Ryun Lee Pastor Stupak Maloney (CT) Porter Tauzin Burr Hulshof Salmon Levin Payne Sununu Maloney (NY) Poshard Taylor (MS) Burton Hunter Sanford Lewis (CA) Pelosi Tanner Manton Price (NC) Taylor (NC) Buyer Hutchinson Scarborough Lewis (GA) Peterson (MN) Tauscher Markey Quinn Thomas Camp Inglis Schaefer, Dan Lipinski Pickett Taylor (NC) Martinez Rahall Thompson Canady Istook Schaffer, Bob Livingston Pomeroy Thomas Mascara Rangel Thurman Cannon Jenkins Sensenbrenner Lofgren Porter Thompson Matsui Redmond Tierney Chabot Johnson, Sam Sessions Lowey Portman Thurman McCarthy (MO) Regula Torres Chambliss Jones Shadegg Luther Poshard Tierney McCarthy (NY) Reyes Towns Chenoweth Kaptur Shimkus Maloney (CT) Price (NC) Torres McCrery Riley Traficant Christensen Kingston Shuster Maloney (NY) Pryce (OH) Towns McDade Rivers Turner Coble Largent Skeen Manton Quinn Turner McDermott Rodriguez Velazquez Coburn Lewis (KY) Smith (MI) Markey Rahall Upton McGovern Roemer Vento Collins Linder Smith, Linda Martinez Ramstad Velazquez McHale Rogers Walsh Combest LoBiondo Snowbarger Mascara Regula Vento McHugh Ros-Lehtinen Waters Cook Lucas Solomon Matsui Reyes Visclosky McNulty Rothman Watt (NC) Cooksey Manzullo Souder McCarthy (MO) Riggs Walsh Meehan Roukema Waxman Cox McCollum Spence McCarthy (NY) Rivers Waters Meek (FL) Roybal-Allard Weldon (PA) Crane McCrery Stearns McDermott Rodriguez Watt (NC) Meeks (NY) Rush Weller Crapo McDade Stump McGovern Rogers Waxman Menendez Sabo Wexler Cubin McInnis Talent McHale Rothman Weldon (PA) Mica Sanchez Weygand Danner McIntosh Tauzin McHugh Roukema Wexler Millender- Sanders Wicker Deal McIntyre Taylor (MS) McKinney Roybal-Allard Weygand McDonald Sandlin Wilson DeLay McKeon Thornberry McNulty Rush White Miller (CA) Sawyer Wise Diaz-Balart Metcalf Thune Meehan Sabo Wicker Minge Saxton Wolf Dickey Mica Tiahrt Meek (FL) Sanchez Wilson Mink Schaffer, Bob Woolsey Doolittle Moran (KS) Traficant Meeks (NY) Sanders Wise Moakley Schumer Wynn Duncan Myrick Wamp Menendez Sandlin Wolf Mollohan Scott Yates Ehrlich Nethercutt Watkins Millender- Sawyer Woolsey Moran (VA) Serrano Young (AK) Emerson Neumann Watts (OK) McDonald Saxton Wynn Morella Shaw Young (FL) Ensign Ney Weldon (FL) Miller (CA) Schumer Yates Murtha Sherman Everett Norwood Weller Miller (FL) Scott Young (FL) Foley Nussle Whitfield Minge Serrano NOT VOTING—6 Fossella Packard Young (AK) NOT VOTING—4 Clay Gonzalez Skaggs Gekas Pappas Cunningham Pickering Slaughter Gibbons Paul Clay Gonzalez Cunningham Pickering NOES—279 b 1344 Abercrombie Conyers Gallegly b 1354 Mr. SESSIONS changed his vote from Ackerman Costello Ganske ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ Allen Coyne Gejdenson Mr. KINGSTON changed his vote Andrews Cramer Gephardt from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ So the amendment was rejected. Archer Cummings Gilchrest So the amendment was rejected. The result of the vote was announced Baesler Davis (FL) Gillmor Baldacci Davis (IL) Gilman The result of the vote was announced as above recorded. Ballenger Davis (VA) Gordon Barrett (WI) DeFazio Goss as above recorded. AMENDMENT NO. 3 OFFERED BY BARTLETT OF Bass DeGette Granger AMENDMENT NO. 8 OFFERED BY MR. TALENT MARYLAND Bateman Delahunt Green The CHAIRMAN. The unfinished The CHAIRMAN. The unfinished Becerra DeLauro Greenwood business is the demand for a recorded Bentsen Deutsch Gutierrez business is the demand for a recorded Bereuter Dicks Hall (OH) vote on the amendment offered by the vote on the Amendment No. 8 offered Berman Dingell Hamilton by the gentleman from Missouri (Mr. gentleman from Maryland (Mr. BART- Berry Dixon Harman TALENT) on which further proceedings LETT) on which further proceedings Bilbray Doggett Hastings (FL) Bishop Dooley Hefner were postponed and on which the ayes were postponed and on which the noes Blagojevich Doyle Hilliard prevailed by voice vote. prevailed by voice vote. Blumenauer Dreier Hinchey The Clerk will designate the amend- The Clerk will redesignate the Boehlert Dunn Hinojosa ment. amendment. Boehner Edwards Hobson Bonior Ehlers Holden The text of the amendment is as fol- The text of the amendment is as fol- Borski Engel Hooley lows: lows: Boswell English Horn Boucher Eshoo Houghton Amendment No. 8 offered by Mr. TALENT: Amendment No. 3 offered by Mr. BARTLETT Boyd Etheridge Hoyer Page 102, line 15 insert ‘‘(increased by of Maryland: Brady (PA) Evans Hyde $7,090,000)’’ after the dollar amount. Brady (TX) Ewing Jackson (IL) Page 78, strike line 15, and all that follows Page 103, line 7 insert ‘‘(decreased by through line 6 on page 79. Brown (CA) Farr Jackson-Lee Brown (FL) Fattah (TX) $7,090,000)’’ after the dollar amount. RECORDED VOTE Brown (OH) Fawell Jefferson RECORDED VOTE Callahan Fazio John The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Calvert Filner Johnson (CT) The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has been demanded. Campbell Forbes Johnson (WI) been demanded. A recorded vote was ordered. Capps Ford Johnson, E. B. A recorded vote was ordered. Cardin Fowler Kanjorski The CHAIRMAN. This is a 5-minute Carson Fox Kasich The CHAIRMAN. This will be a 5 vote. Castle Frank (MA) Kelly minute vote. The vote was taken by electronic de- Clayton Franks (NJ) Kennedy (MA) The vote was taken by electronic de- Clement Frelinghuysen Kennedy (RI) vice, and there were—ayes 151, noes 279, Clyburn Frost Kennelly vice, and there were—ayes 312, noes, not voting 4, as follows: Condit Furse Kildee 114, not voting 8, as follows: H7216 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998

[Roll No. 393] Thornberry Walsh Weygand Maryland (Mr. BARTLETT) which struck Thune Wamp White AYES—312 Tiahrt Waters Whitfield all the money. I am striking less than Tierney Watkins Wicker 25 percent. So this is a modest pro- Ackerman Frelinghuysen McKinney Torres Watts (OK) Wilson Aderholt Furse McNulty posal, and I hope my colleagues will Traficant Weldon (FL) Wolf Allen Gallegly Meehan take that into consideration, because I Turner Weldon (PA) Young (AK) Archer Ganske Metcalf Upton Weller Young (FL) saw that the gentleman from Maryland Armey Gephardt Mica Velazquez Wexler (Mr. BARTLETT) lost on his amendment. Bachus Gibbons Millender- Baesler Gilchrest McDonald NOES—114 According to the GAO study released Baker Gillmor Miller (FL) Abercrombie Gutierrez Olver in June of 1998, the United Nations Baldacci Gilman Mink Andrews Hall (OH) Owens itself recognizes that the UN owes the Ballenger Goode Moran (KS) Becerra Hall (TX) Pallone Barcia Goodlatte Morella United States about $109.2 million for Berman Hastings (FL) Pascrell reimbursement for U.S. contributions Barr Goodling Nethercutt Borski Hefner Pastor Barrett (NE) Gordon Neumann Boucher Hilliard Payne for peacekeeping. The chart I have here Barrett (WI) Goss Ney Boyd Hinchey Pelosi on my left from the GAO study shows Bartlett Graham Northup Brady (PA) Hinojosa Peterson (MN) that the United States is owed the sec- Barton Granger Norwood Brown (CA) Houghton Pickett Bass Greenwood Nussle Brown (OH) Hoyer Price (NC) ond highest amount of reimbursement Bateman Gutknecht Obey Cardin Jefferson Rangel for peacekeeping operations, second, of Bentsen Hamilton Ortiz Carson Johnson, E. B. Reyes Bereuter Hansen Oxley course, only to France, at $151.2 mil- Clayton Johnson, Sam Rivers lion. Berry Harman Packard Clyburn Kennedy (RI) Rodriguez Bilbray Hastert Pappas Coyne Kildee Sabo Of course, the $109.2 million that I Bilirakis Hastings (WA) Parker Cummings Kilpatrick Sanchez Bishop Hayworth Paul propose in my amendment the UN does Davis (FL) Kleczka Sanders recognize does not take into account Blagojevich Hefley Paxon DeGette Kucinich Sawyer Bliley Herger Pease Delahunt LaFalce Saxton the multimillions we have spent in var- Blumenauer Hill Peterson (PA) DeLauro Lantos Scott ious peacekeeping operations, as my Blunt Hilleary Petri Dicks Lee Serrano good friend from Maryland (Mr. BART- Boehlert Hobson Pitts Dingell Lofgren Skaggs Boehner Hoekstra Pombo Dixon Lowey Slaughter LETT) has already pointed out. Bonilla Holden Pomeroy Dooley Markey Stark Mr. Chairman, I personally applaud Bonior Hooley Porter Doyle Mascara Stokes the Committee on Appropriations for Bono Horn Portman Engel Matsui Strickland Boswell Hostettler Poshard Eshoo Meek (FL) Stupak what they are doing, trying to pare Brady (TX) Hulshof Pryce (OH) Etheridge Meeks (NY) Thompson down the U.S. arrears amount, specifi- Brown (FL) Hunter Quinn Evans Menendez Thurman cally in regard to the peacekeeping ef- Bryant Hutchinson Radanovich Farr Miller (CA) Towns fort. The appropriators have provided a Bunning Hyde Rahall Fattah Minge Vento Burr Inglis Ramstad Filner Moakley Visclosky reduced amount of $475 million from Burton Istook Redmond Ford Mollohan Watt (NC) what the accounting-impaired United Buyer Jackson (IL) Regula Frank (MA) Moran (VA) Waxman Nations claims is owed, and the appro- Callahan Jackson-Lee Riggs Frost Murtha Wise Calvert (TX) Riley Gejdenson Nadler Woolsey priators are appropriating this appro- Camp Jenkins Roemer Gekas Neal Wynn priation to actual authorization legis- Campbell John Rogan Green Oberstar Yates lation that is intended to push reform Canady Johnson (CT) Rogers Cannon Johnson (WI) Rohrabacher NOT VOTING—8 at the United Nations. Capps Jones Ros-Lehtinen Clay Cunningham Myrick The GAO report indicates that the Castle Kanjorski Rothman Clement Gonzalez Pickering UN even calculates peacekeeping ar- Chabot Kaptur Roukema Crapo Lewis (GA) Chambliss Kasich Roybal-Allard rears amounts that we are inten- Chenoweth Kelly Royce b 1401 tionally withholding for legislative and Christensen Kennedy (MA) Rush Ms. LEE changed her vote from policy reasons. For instance, Congress Coble Kennelly Ryun placed a cap on the peacekeeping as- Coburn Kim Salmon ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ Collins Kind (WI) Sandlin Ms. BROWN of Florida changed her sessment charged by the UN. The UN Combest King (NY) Sanford vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ at that time assessed a peacekeeping Condit Kingston Scarborough charge to the U.S. at an exaggerated Conyers Klink Schaefer, Dan So the amendment was agreed to. Cook Klug Schaffer, Bob The result of the vote was announced 31.7 percent rate that was set by the Cooksey Knollenberg Schumer as above recorded. General Assembly to cover peacekeep- Costello Kolbe Sensenbrenner ing contribution shortfalls following Cox LaHood Sessions The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. Cramer Lampson Shadegg PEASE). Are there further amend- the breakup of the Soviet Union. Crane Largent Shaw ments? Congress thought that the assess- Cubin Latham Shays ment rate was too high and imple- Danner LaTourette Sherman AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. STEARNS Davis (IL) Lazio Shimkus Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I offer mented a policy cap for the peacekeep- Davis (VA) Leach Shuster an amendment. ing at 30.4 percent, which was still too Deal Levin Sisisky The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- high, in my opinion. But even this re- DeFazio Lewis (CA) Skeen duction reduced our financial obliga- DeLay Lewis (KY) Skelton ignate the amendment. Deutsch Linder Smith (MI) The text of the amendment is as fol- tion to the UN for peacekeeping by $123 Diaz-Balart Lipinski Smith (NJ) lows: million. Dickey Livingston Smith (OR) After the UN peacekeeping fiasco in Doggett LoBiondo Smith (TX) Amendment offered by Mr. STEARNS: Doolittle Lucas Smith, Adam Page 78, line 19, strike ‘‘$475,000,000,’’ and Somalia, in which 19 heroic American Dreier Luther Smith, Linda insert ‘‘$365,800,000,’’. service members lost their lives, Con- Duncan Maloney (CT) Snowbarger The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- gress in 1995 further pursued a legisla- Dunn Maloney (NY) Snyder Edwards Manton Solomon ant to the order of the House of Tues- tive cap on peacekeeping assessments Ehlers Manzullo Souder day, August 4, 1998, the gentleman from at 25 percent after October 1, 1995. This Ehrlich Martinez Spence Florida (Mr. STEARNS) and a Member lower assessment pursued by Congress Emerson McCarthy (MO) Spratt 1 has led to an additional $128 million in English McCarthy (NY) Stabenow opposed will each control 7 ⁄2 minutes. Ensign McCollum Stearns The Chair recognizes the gentleman American taxpayer savings. But in- Everett McCrery Stenholm from Florida (Mr. STEARNS). stead of recognizing that the U.S. has Ewing McDade Stump Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I yield chosen for valid policy and legislative Fawell McDermott Sununu Fazio McGovern Talent myself such time as I may consume. reasons to permanently withhold $251 Foley McHale Tanner Mr. Chairman, my amendment would million from the UN for peacekeeping Forbes McHugh Tauscher strike $109.2 million in the bill for assessments, the UN is still maintain- Fossella McInnis Tauzin United States arrears to the United ing, is still maintaining, Mr. Chairman, Fowler McIntosh Taylor (MS) Fox McIntyre Taylor (NC) Nations. Now, earlier we had an we owe them an additional $251 mil- Franks (NJ) McKeon Thomas amendment from the gentleman from lion. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7217 I strongly believe that we need to must continue in Congress to limit any Now, one might draw a bottom line further reduce this funding for peace- appropriations for alleged U.S. arrears on all that and say it equals zero. I keeping arrears, to continue sending to until a comprehensive reform plan is in would draw a bottom line on it and say the Secretary General and the rest of place at the United Nations. As a re- we have been pretty darn successful in the United Nations a message that dra- sponsible representative of these great moving a large organization in the matic, widespread reform has to be im- American people, we can do nothing right direction. I think this effort to plemented, including significant bu- less this afternoon. cut the appropriation, which is the reaucratic staff cuts and budget reduc- So I urge my colleagues to support very incentive to effect these reforms, tions. my modest amendment, modest is the exact wrong thing to do. My continued problem with the amendment, to reduce the money from Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 United Nations is its refusal to imple- the appropriators, roughly $475 million, minutes to the gentleman from New ment such reforms, although the U.S. just reduce it by $109.2 million. York (Mr. GILMAN), the chairman of has been breathing down its neck for Mr. Chairman, I will conclude by say- the Committee on International Rela- some time. ing that regardless of what side you are tions. Mr. Chairman, the Washington Post on in this debate, you have to under- (Mr. GILMAN asked and was given quoted the former UN Secretary Gen- stand that any bureaucratic institu- permission to revise and extend his re- eral Boutros Boutros-Ghali as saying tion can reform itself and reduce its marks.) that, ‘‘Perhaps half the United Nations staff, but this body is not doing it. I Mr. GILMAN. Mr. Chairman, I thank staff does nothing useful.’’ urge Members to support my amend- the gentleman for yielding me time. Congress has consistently demanded ment. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to reductions in the UN worldwide staff of The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Does the amendment offered by the distin- 53,000 people, not including 10,000 con- any Member seek time in opposition to guished gentleman from Florida (Mr. sultants or the peacekeeping forces the amendment? STEARNS). I believe the adoption of this which reached 80,000 in 1993. As you saw Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I claim Stearns amendment would undercut in the Washington Times yesterday, the time in opposition. our efforts to achieve meaningful per- The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The they have the most generous salary manent reforms at the UN, and would gentleman from Kentucky is recog- and benefits package in public life. In actually prevent the U.S. from reduc- nized for 71⁄2 minutes. ing our annual assessments to the UN. fact, the United Nations donates 16 per- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield The UN has already instituted a se- cent of your salary in your thrift sav- myself 1 minute. ries of so-called Track-2 reforms that ings accounts, in addition to your 7.5, Mr. Chairman, the notion of reducing will streamline their departments, re- and you are almost up to 24 percent of arrearages at the United Nations is a duce staffing and improve the effi- your salary. Plus, as you saw, the Sec- good idea. The only problem is that in ciency of their operations based upon retary General makes $300,000, and the Gilman-Helms authorization con- our initial discussions with them about there are roughly 3,622 of these people ference report which we refer to, this the amount due from the United who range from almost $50,000 to credit has already been used to reduce States. For a largely token reduction $300,000 in salary. the amount of arrearages that will be in our arrearage payments to the UN of Most UN salaries are tax-free. Many paid, so these funds have already been $109 million, we would be jeopardizing employees have rent subsidies up to used up. our efforts to lower our assessments $3,800 a month and also have annual Agreeing to this amendment will do from 25 to 22 and actually 20 percent, education grants of $12,675 per child. nothing more than undermine the au- and, in the process, would prevent us We could perhaps argue on the floor thorization bill that is currently pend- from realizing taxpayer savings of up today about these perks, and col- ing. So it puts at risk the entire to $1 billion over a 10-year time frame. leagues on this side or that side that scheme to obtain reforms, reduce the Moreover, on March 26 of this year, defend the UN will say ‘‘Well, Cliff, you U.S. assessment rate, write off remain- by voice vote, the House passed an au- are exaggerating.’’ I would just like to ing arrears, and cap appropriations to thorization measure authorizing the say that if you read the Washington international organizations, which this payment of UN arrearages in exchange Times article, it is pretty clear that all subcommittee has been trying to do for for the implementation of a com- of us would agree it is pretty generous. many years. prehensive package of reforms which What is the solution? Well, the Sec- So the gentleman’s idea is a good are already under way. retary General says we are going to do idea. In fact, it is such a good idea, we b reform. He plans to consolidate 12 sec- have already done it. It assures that 1415 retarial departments into five. Remem- the U.N. makes good on what it owes We should not be taking any nickel ber now, he is just taking these 12 de- the U.S., but it has already been done. and dime approaches embodied in this partments and making five of them, So, consequently, I oppose the amend- amendment. As the chairman of the but he is not reducing, not cutting, any ment and urge Members to vote ‘‘no’’. Committee on International Relations, employee in these 12 departments. He Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the I will be working with our colleagues has a 9,000-strong secretarial staff. gentleman from West Virginia (Mr. on the Committee on Appropriations to The Secretary General also proposes MOLLOHAN.) assure timely and prompt reimburse- three economic development depart- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I ment and repayment of U.S. costs asso- ments representing $122 million of the guess I, in a way, am repeating some of ciated with U.S. peacekeeping oper- Secretary’s budget and employing 700 the sentiments the chairman ex- ations. Moreover, over the past 5 years people be reduced to one department. pressed. I do not understand the theory our overall peacekeeping costs have Again, he is talking about reform but of this amendment. As I understood it, dropped by over 60 percent. there is no reduction in employees or we have used these strong negotiations My colleagues should be aware that expenditures. No reduction in people, and the leverage of the Committee on the adoption of this amendment would no reduction in expenditures, and he Appropriations to effect significant re- prevent our Nation from, one, putting calls that reform. Any of the Fortune forms at the United Nations. And while a cap on our contribution to all inter- 500 companies who did that would be the gentleman, as I understood his national organizations at $900 million laughed out of the convention center statement, represented that we have per year; secondly, assuring that we by their stockholders. not effected reforms, that is not my will retain our voting rights at the Also two human rights offices in Ge- understanding. U.N. General Assembly; and third, neva are merged into one. That sounds We have a budget cap at the UN. We mandating that the U.N. has instituted good. But, again, no reduction in em- have reduced employment by 1,000. I a procurement system prohibiting pu- ployees. am advised at the United Nations we nitive actions against contractors that Mr. Chairman, I do not think there have a Secretary General function op- challenge contract awards and com- has been any reform by the Secretary erating and we have new financial plain about delayed payments. General, and I would be glad to hear if management, and we have combined Accordingly, Mr. Chairman, this my opponents disagree. But I say we departments. amendment is counterproductive. I H7218 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 urge my colleagues to vote no on the tions in the bill before us are unacceptable. Page 53, line 6, after the dollar amount in- Stearns amendment. Unfortunately, that is where our agreement on sert ‘‘(reduced by $29,000,000)’’. Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield this issue ends. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- the balance of my time to the gen- I believe the funding level this bill includes ant to the order of the House of Tues- tleman from California (Mr. BERMAN), for the U.N. is woefully inadequate. The day, August 4, 1998, the gentleman from ranking member of the Committee on United States owes more than $1 billion to the Alabama (Mr. CALLAHAN) and a Mem- International Relations. U.N. in arrears. But this bill provides just $475 ber opposed each will control 5 min- Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I thank millionÐless than halfÐof our debt. And it utes. the gentleman from Kentucky (Chair- makes even that small amount contingent The Chair recognizes the gentleman man ROGERS) for yielding time to me. upon the enactment of legislation authorizing from Alabama (Mr. CALLAHAN). To my distinguished colleague, the this funding, which, conveniently enough, is Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I gentleman from Florida (Mr. STEARNS), lying dead in a dormant conference commit- have introduced a bill to reduce the ap- I would recommend he go see a movie tee. propriations to the National Marine called The Producers, a Mel Brooks So I too think that we need to change the Fisheries by $29 million. It is my ulti- film, where two guys are putting to- U.N. provisions included in this bill. But Mr. mate intention to withdraw this gether a play they were sure would be STEARNS' amendment goes in exactly the amendment, but it gives me the oppor- a flop. It was called Springtime for Hit- wrong direction. tunity to bring to the Members’ atten- ler. They sold 1,000 percent of the play, This amendment hinders the United States tion something that I think is a very knowing it would fail, but it turned out from taking even the first, paltry step included serious thing facing this Nation. the play was a big hit, and now they in this bill toward fulfilling its debt to the U.N. The United States Coast Guard is ob- have to deal with all the people they Mr. STEARNS cloaks his amendment in the ligated to enforce all of the rules and had promised this. rhetoric of reform, and claims that his amend- regulations that are implemented and As the gentleman from Kentucky ment will somehow take us down that path. adopted by the National Marine Fish- (Mr. ROGERS) pointed out, a deal was But let's be very clear, Mr. Chairman. This eries. So the scenario is that the Na- made between the authorizers of both amendment is not about U.N. reform. This tional Marine Fisheries Service, with- Houses in the majority party and the amendment is simply about blocking the out a word, without anything else, one appropriators to deduct $109 million be- United States from fulfilling its financial obliga- bureaucrat, can issue a rule or regula- cause of the offsets of the money that tions to the U.N. tion and pick up the telephone and call we have paid. We can get into a great I don't think there is anyone in this House the Commandant of the Coast Guard debate about whether we should have who is not supportive of further U.N. reform. and say, tomorrow morning send your done that, but it was done. That is why we worked to elect Secretary people out and enforce this new rule we The authorization plan lays out in General Kofi Annan. That is why the U.N. has have implemented. tranches, contingent on certain re- begun to implement reforms developed and The administration this year has forms, this payment schedule. Last demanded by the United States. And that is asked for more money, believe it or year the gentleman from Kentucky why we will continue to advocate far-reaching not, to enforce fisheries laws than they (Chairman ROGERS) appropriated $100 reforms throughout the U.N. system. have requested for drug interdiction million as the first tranche. Now we The United States has a tremendous activities. That, Mr. Chairman, is mis- are having the second tranche. Next amount of influence within the U.N., but that placed priorities at its greatest pos- year will be the third tranche. The level of influence is rapidly decreasing. sible moment. total figure comes to somewhere Our debt to the U.N. is draining our power Let me just give a scenario of some- around $800 and something million. I do in the organization, creating a climate of re- thing that conceivably could take not remember the exact dollar amount. sistance to U.S. proposals and even endan- place. We have a young man who wants It already deducts the $109 million. gering our vote in the General Assembly. to be in the United States Coast Guard. To do this now is to sell the same The U.N. has historically served U.S. inter- He goes to high school, he goes to col- deal once again, double the amount of ests, but our debt is making it hard for the or- lege. Then he goes to the Coast Guard the offset, over what it legitimately ganization to carry out its activities. The Academy. He gets his commission. He should be. So even on the mathematics, Stearns amendment will only make this situa- marries his childhood sweetheart. They even if we accept every premise of ev- tion worse. move into a nice little bungalow. Lo In the interest of U.S. national security and erything the gentleman has said, and and behold, he is called on his first in the interest of reforming the U.N., I urge my even if we ignore the fact that all this tour of duty. He has to leave his wife colleagues to vote ``no'' on the Stearns money is contingent on, one, the pas- and his bungalow. He has to go do what amendment. sage of an authorization bill, if I am The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The he is commissioned to do, and that is correct, and secondly, the implementa- question is on the amendment offered to protect the shores of the United tion of reforms, which the authoriza- by the gentleman from Florida (Mr. States of America. Can we imagine what happens when tion is geared to, even if we accept all STEARNS). of that, this amendment should still be The question was taken; and the he comes back 10 days later and docks voted down because we have already Chairman pro tempore announced that his ship and gets off the ship, runs deducted the $109 million from the the noes appeared to have it. home, he kisses his wife, and says, total amount that we are authorizing Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, on honey, I am back. She is happy to see and appropriating, according to this 3- that I demand a recorded vote, and him. He says, honey, you are not going year schedule. pending that, I make the point of order to believe what happened this week, This amendment should really be that a quorum is not present. my first week asea in the United withdrawn. If it is not going to be, I The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- States Coast Guard. would urge my colleagues to reject it, ant to House Resolution 508, further Would you believe, he tells his wife, because the whole logic of it is faulty. proceedings on the amendment offered that I actually caught a fellow out in The money has been taken. The money by the gentleman from Florida (Mr. the Gulf of Mexico with a 10-inch snap- will be contingent on the reforms the STEARNS) will be postponed. per; and the violation of the law, be- gentleman seeks, and the whole appro- The point of no quorum is considered cause it has to be about 15 inches? So priation is contingent on the passage of withdrawn. I took my multi-million dollar cutter, an already-agreed upon authorization AMENDMENT NO. 28 OFFERED BY MR. CALLAHAN after I saw him with my field glasses, amount which has been left hanging Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I and I rushed over there with my 15- only because of a dispute about the offer an amendment. member crew and we boarded this boat. family planning monies and the Mexico The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The Not only did he violate that one-snap- City policy. So I urge a no vote. Clerk will designate the amendment. per regulation by it being too small, he Mrs. LOWEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong The text of the amendment is as fol- also found out that the guy had five opposition to the Stearns amendment. lows: snappers. Can you imagine that, he Congressman STEARNS and I agree on one Amendment No. 28 offered by Mr. CAL- says? And we arrested that guy and thing: The provisions relating to the United Na- LAHAN: confiscated his boat. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7219 His wife said, ‘‘Oh, honey I am so The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The tions on the part of the people that proud of you. But I saw the darnedest Clerk will designate the amendment. want to extend the State jurisdiction thing on television today. I saw where The text of the amendment is as fol- for Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisi- 500 children died this week because lows: ana are of the highest, and I think they they were using drugs, drugs that prob- Amendment printed in House Report 105– want to do their best for people that ably came through the Gulf of Mex- 641 offered by Mr. CALLAHAN: they represent in this particular area. ico.’’ Page 62, beginning at line 15, strike section My opposition comes in three areas. We have misplaced priorities, Mr. 210 and insert the following: One is an area that we always discuss Chairman, with respect to how we fund SEC. 210. (a) IN GENERAL.—Each of the here on the House floor, the difference the United States Coast Guard. The States of Alabama, Louisiana, and Mis- sissippi has exclusive fishery management between an appropriation jurisdiction Commandant of the Coast Guard has authority over all fish in the Gulf of Mexico and an authorization jurisdiction. told us that he has an insufficient within 3 leagues of the coast of that State, There were no hearings held in this amount of money to even implement effective July 1, 1999. particular legislation. We do not know the activities that they did this year, (b) FISH DEFINED.—In this section, the its impact on the States. We do not much less increase the activities that term ‘‘fish’’ means finfish, mollusks, crusta- know its impact on the commercial need to be done to eliminate the drug ceans, and all other forms of marine animal fishery. We do not know its impact on infusion into the United States of and plant life other than marine mammals the charter boat fishery. We do not and birds. America. know its impact on the shrimp fishery. The National Marine Fisheries Serv- The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- There is a whole range of questions ice is out of control. We need to send ant to House Resolution 508, the gen- that are still out there that we do not them a message. I would not be able to tleman from Alabama (Mr. CALLAHAN) have any real answers for that could be successfully cut their appropriation. I and a Member opposed will each con- resolved through hearings. never thought that I could. I just want- trol 10 minutes. Let me discuss briefly some of the ed to use this opportunity to bring to The Chair recognizes the gentleman volatile debates we have had around Members’ attention, to bring to light, from Alabama (Mr. CALLAHAN). here that have been resolved during the to the light of day, something that ex- Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I course of hearings. We have always had plains that the United States Fisheries yield myself such time as I may con- problems with logging issues. Through Association, the National Marine Fish- sume. the course of hearings, we came up eries, is a bureaucratic, overzealous Mr. Chairman, the language included with, in northern California, the Quin- agency that is out of control, and that in my amendment is an effort to pro- cy Library solution, with the gen- we ought not to be spending the hun- vide jurisdictional parity for fisheries tleman from California (Mr. WALLY dreds of millions of dollars that we are enforcement for the States of Alabama, HERGER). spending to fund this agency, only to Louisiana, Mississippi, with the States We have seen solutions with the let the Coast Guard go wanting. of Florida and Texas. These jurisdic- Committee on Agriculture on logging Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, will the tions were originally agreed to as part and grazing. A couple of years ago this gentleman yield? of the treaty agreements which Congress, in a bipartisan way, came to- Mr. CALLAHAN. I yield to the gen- brought each State into the Federal gether to deal with the Magnuson Act, tleman from Kentucky, a landlocked union. which was to have a plan across State State, I might add, who recognizes the The amendment which I am propos- boundaries, across the wide oceans of importance of the United States Coast ing today would clarify some technical the jurisdiction that the United States Guard. concerns, and allow that date certain has in its coastal areas, to understand Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I want implementation of July 1, 1999, which the need for good, science-based man- to commend the gentleman for bring- would allow the States of Alabama, agement plans on a resource that can ing this matter before the House. He Louisiana, and Mississippi an appro- be overfished. did so in the Subcommittee on Trans- priate amount of time, timetable for So, number one, it is really impor- portation of the Committee on Appro- the execution of this jurisdictional pro- tant, it is vital, not only for this Con- priations, on which he and I are both vision. gress but for the very fishermen in the members. He did so before the full com- It would replace the nine mile provi- Gulf of Mexico, for us to understand mittee and now before the full House, sion contained in the bill as passed by the full ramifications of what this so I want to commend the gentleman the full Committee on Appropriations amendment will do, what this rider for pointing out that this administra- with three marine leagues. It is a tech- will do, without any hearings. tion has cut the number of hours that nical amendment amending language Number two, this, I guess, could be they are allowing the Coast Guard to that is in the bill. It simply amends the stated as an unfunded mandate. I want patrol for drugs coming through the language to make absolutely certain to read two short paragraphs, one from Caribbean, and are increasing the num- that we are only talking about fish- the Governor of Louisiana and one ber of hours that they require the eries, and it changes three miles, or from the Department of Marine Re- Coast Guard to patrol for violations of nine miles, to three leagues, which is a sources in Mississippi. The Governor of the fisheries laws. term we need to do that. Louisiana says: ‘‘I am also advised that We all want the fisheries laws en- So it is a very simple, clarifying the bill is an unfunded mandate, and forced, but which is more important to amendment to an amendment that was provides no funds for Louisiana’s De- us, keeping our kids from dying, or unanimously adopted by the Commit- partment of Wildlife and Fisheries to catching somebody with a fish an inch tee on Appropriations, and also was perform the functions required,’’ and too long? I commend the gentleman. agreed upon by the chairman of the that the bill may be effective as early Mr. CALLAHAN. The gentleman is Committee on Resources, the gen- as, and we now know it would not be ef- absolutely right, they have turned the tleman from Alaska (MR. YOUNG). fective until July 1, 1999. Coast Guard into the meter maids of Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance b the Gulf of Mexico. of my time. 1430 Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous con- Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Chairman, I We are looking into the issue of an sent to withdraw my amendment. rise in opposition to the amendment. unfunded mandate. Basically Mr. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Is The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The Woods from Mississippi says the same there objection to the request of the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. thing. How will they develop their gentleman from Alabama? GILCHREST) is recognized for 10 minutes management plan? What will that There was no objection. in opposition. cost? What are the costs of enforce- The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Chairman, I ment? amendment is withdrawn. yield myself such time as I may con- I would like to make a quick com- AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. CALLAHAN sume. ment about the Coast Guard in re- Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. Chairman, I rise in reluctant op- sponse to my good friend, the gen- offer an amendment. position, because I think the motiva- tleman from Alabama (Mr. CALLAHAN). H7220 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 While the Coast Guard is out there from here in Washington, so the un- yet require that Fish Excluder Devices (FEDs) monitoring the fisheries, they are also funded mandates really is not an issue. or Bycatch Reduction Devices (BRDs) be put monitoring illegal immigrants to our What is an issue is federalism, equal in their nets. country. They are also checking out opportunity for States. In Alaska, they Again, the Callahan amendment is not ef- drug interdiction. They are also look- have a 12-mile limit, extending their fective until July 10 1999, so it will give the ing into environmental pollution. jurisdiction out 12 miles for the super- states plenty of time to require BRDs or FEDs, There is a whole range of things that vision of some of their fisheries. In the if they desire. the Coast Guard does with fisheries en- States of California and Oregon and The Callahan amendment would leave man- forcement, not to mention the fact it is Washington, for the purpose of super- agement of red snapper and other resources a huge, many multibillion dollar indus- vising the development of a particular to the states where it will be more consistent try, that the Coast Guard is out there species of crab they are talking about and fair. preventing many other countries from 200 miles, 200 miles reaching out be- The Commerce Department's National Ma- illegally fishing in our waters. yond the borders of their shorelines. rine and Fisheries Service (NMFS) and NOAA The last comment I want to make is In Texas and in Florida, which the have consistently failed to develop fair and about conservation. I want to focus on last time I looked at my map bounded practical regulations based on all the available the red snapper in particular. The red the States of Alabama, Mississippi and scientific data and economic impacts to fisher- snapper, mature red snapper fish are Louisiana, the outreach is 9 to 10 men. for the most part caught outside State miles. But for whatever reason, and I NMFS consistently has used ``selectively'' waters. That is outside of 9 miles if did inquire of my friend from Maryland chosen data to mandate new regulations like this passes. That is fine. But the imma- the other day what the reason was, he BRDs or FEDs that are advocated by so many ture red snapper, 80 percent of the im- says, you guys came into the country here today. mature red snapper fish are within under different circumstances, almost Remember, this (BRD) or Bycatch Reduc- State waters. Many of those red snap- 200 years ago, whatever reason it is, we tion Device is really a fancy name coined by pers, without bycatch reduction de- have got a 3-mile limit in Louisiana. the National Marine Fisheries Services vices, are lost to bycatch. That means Mississippi and Alabama have a 3-mile (NMFS) so they would not have to call these they never grow up and they can never limit. devices FEDs, Fish Excluder Devices. be caught by the commercial fishermen If Texas and Florida are on either These BRDs or FEDs are an un-funded outside these territorial waters who, sides of us on the Gulf of Mexico and if mandate implemented by the Dept. of Com- by the way, the commercial fishing they have to live by certain fisheries merce and NMFS last April and May for well communities, the red snapper commer- rules, I think the fish swim in the same over 3,000 shrimp fishermen in the Gulf of cial fishermen are opposed to this water. They do not stop at the border Mexico to put in his or her shrimp nets be- amendment. and check, am I in a Texas border or cause NMFS ``claims'' its ``scientific data'' If we do not have some sense of where am I in a Florida border, and then I can proved that these devices will help prevent the waters flow, about how to consist- swim out 10 miles, but I am in the Lou- what they termed was significant red snapper ently manage and sustain these re- isiana border, I can only swim out 3 bycatch. sources, we are going to lose these re- miles. That is ridiculous. When these FEDs or BRDs were mandated sources. So for a conservation effort to We ought to have the same rules, the by the Federal Government in April of this increase the stock of red snapper, to same laws for the fish and the people. year, there was no Federal funding that came find the way to manage the shrimp The outreach ought to be the same with this mandate for the over 3,000 shrimp trawling industry, we need to defeat number of miles, whether it is 3 miles fishermen throughout the Gulf of Mexico. this particular amendment by the gen- or 10 miles, it ought to be the same. Between the equipment you have to buy, tleman from Alabama. Texas and Florida do not want to go to the number of nets you have to modify, and Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance 3 miles. They want to stay at 10 miles. the labor, these FEDs cost each shrimp fisher- of my time. So it seems only proper that Mis- men an average of nearly $200Ðand this Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I sissippi, Alabama and Louisiana ought does not take into account the extra fuel and yield such time as he may consume to to be 10 miles as well. other expenses they have to consume to the gentleman from Louisiana (Mr. The opponents of this amendment do not make up for the shrimp lost because the LIVINGSTON), chairman of the Commit- want this extension of fishery rights for our shrimp fishermen now have a TED and a FED tee on Appropriations. states but, just the past Monday under sus- in their nets. (Mr. LIVINGSTON asked and was pension vote as part of H.R. 3460, they grant- And, when the FED/BRD mandate came out given permission to revise and extend ed the states of California, Oregon, and Wash- earlier this year, there was only one NMFS or his remarks.) ington state jurisdiction for a major crab fish- Government approved device that the fisher- Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Chairman, in ery out to 200 miles! men were allowed to use. It was not until deference to the arguments advanced Opponents are trying to claim in the ``Dear opening day of shrimp season that NMFS ap- by my former shipmate, the gentleman Colleagues'' that the states of LA and Mis- proved a second version. from Maryland (Mr. GILCHREST), an sissippi are opposed to these extensions, that At the same time NMFS was mandating a outstanding Congressman, an ex-ma- they are an un-funded mandate. FED/BRD requirement they said in the same rine and a great American hero, I But, if you read the letters from these two rulemaking that they would conduct a ``four would simply say that I respectfully states you will see that they support extending month, intensive research effort * * * at sea disagree with him on this point. jurisdiction out to 9 miles if the extension is to test the effectiveness of BRDs at reducing We are always hearing about federal- delayed and if we provide Federal funds to im- the mortality of juvenile red snapper. The re- ism, restoring the power to the States. plement state jurisdiction. search will conclusively determine the effec- I think that means equal power to the The revised Callahan amendment provides tiveness of BRDs under actual operating con- States and that all Americans stand this extension by not implementing an exten- ditions.'' equally under the eyes of the law. That sion of the state boundary for fisheries until If they did not have the data and proof, is not the case when it comes to limits July, 1999. under actual working conditions, why didn't for fisheries or for any other purposes And, while direct funding to the states is not NMFS implement a voluntary program with of the Outer Continental Shelf. provided in this amendmentÐthe Federal gov- fishermen as opposed to a Federal un-funded The fact is, as my friend, the gen- ernment already has grant programs, enforce- mandate? tleman from Louisiana (Mr. TAUZIN) ment dollars and mechanisms in place through Also, talk about selective use of data, just 5 will say, red snapper are doing fine. the Dingell-Johnson act and this very bill to months earlier (in December, 1997) NMFS of- There are plenty of red snapper. And provide states assistance in managing their ficials, based on the ``science they devel- the unfunded mandates, I do not think fishery resources. oped'', mandated that shrimp fishermen could that is a problem because the Federal Opponents claim that the Callahan amend- no longer use certain types of NMFS pre- Government did not worry about that ment will mean that some fishermen, particu- viously approved ``soft'' TEDs, turtle excluder when they made the shrimpers carry larly shrimp fishermen, will have an easier devices. BRDs or TEDs or any of the other ex- time in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama NMFS mandated this because they had new cluder devices that they mandated because their state laws or regulations do not ``science'' that indicated that soft TEDs were August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7221 not as effective as ``hard'' TEDs in releasing ducer of blue crabs, oysters and shrimp in the the best interest of all the commercial endangered sea turtles. U.S. fisheries interests. It will certainly not For the uninitiated, ``soft'' TEDs use rope or According to the Commerce Dept's own fig- be in the best interest of sustaining. flexible rigging as opposed to ``hard'' TEDs ures Louisiana has had 4 of the top 10 port Our most important issue in respect that use metal or firm rigging. cities with the highest volume of fish and shell- here in making laws is to sustain so fu- NMFS went ahead with the mandate to fish landings from 1994 through 1996 (the lat- ture generations can have access to eliminate previously approved NMFS soft est figures available). these fisheries. TEDs despite the fact: (1) Most Gulf shrimpers This is despite the fact that Louisiana is re- Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I used soft TEDs and would have to replace sponsible for over 75% of our entire nation's yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from those TEDs with new ones (In fact shrimper OCS oil and gas production. Louisiana (Mr. TAUZIN). compliance with all TEDs was over 97%); (2) I can tell you that we are environmentally Mr. TAUZIN. Mr. Chairman, let me That NMFS was already planning to require sensitiveÐour state leadership is known for its first tell you that as far as this un- BRDs or FEDs; (3) And, that NMFS' own ``sci- track record for helping our fisheries, espe- funded mandate argument goes, we entific'' data and other science strongly indi- cially recreational fisheries. have discussed personally this issue cated that most of the soft TEDs used by If it is good enough for Alaska, Texas, Flor- with our governor, the head of our nat- shrimpers also happened to be excellent By- ida, Oregon, California and WashingtonÐit ural resources in Louisiana. They tell catch Reduction or Fish Excluder Devices; should be good enough for LA, Alabama and us it is certainly right and fitting that and (4) And, that NMFS' ``science'' and ``data'' Mississippi. Louisiana and Mississippi and Alabama justifying the elimination of soft TEDs was only Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Chairman, should have the same jurisdictional en- based on 2 small tests. Alaska has a 3-mile jurisdiction, not a forcement capacities that Texas and NMFS takes away one device, soft TEDs, 12-mile jurisdiction, and there is only Florida have, and they would be very they mandated years ago and that shrimpers one other situation, that is the State willing to accept that responsibility if were complying with at a 97% compliance of California, where we have had hear- the State was accorded that respon- rate, even though they had enough science to ings, and they are managing the Dun- sibility in this bill. They are prepared show that they helped reduce bycatchÐsome- geness crab. for it. thing they several months later fishermen Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to Of course, our fisheries and wildlife must use totally different devices for. the gentleman from California (Mr. department would love to have more All these inconsistent and irrational Federal FARR). money. That is the reason he men- policies and regulations in the name of pro- Mr. FARR of California. Mr. Chair- tioned that in his letter. But the truth tecting the red snapper. man, I rise in opposition to this amend- of the matter is that they want parity A species, despite what many claim, is not ment. I think I represent a sense of of jurisdiction, just as much as the declining. some fishermen who I represent, and gentleman from Louisiana (Mr. LIVING- The same Gulf of Mexico Fishery Manage- knowledge of the California coastline STON) and I, who represent Louisiana, ment Council, that opponents say oppose the and essentially West Coast coastlines. would love our State to have parity of Callahan amendment, said last February, This is not good law. This is not good jurisdiction. when it approved a 9.12 million pound catch precedent. I appreciate the gentleman from for red snapper for this year, that the ``red As has been stated, the fish stocks do Maryland about the fiscal state of af- snapper is in a recovery phase. . .. not respect political boundaries, fairs in Louisiana. I assure you, our ``(and) positive growth indicators include 5 whether they are near shore waters, State officials are one with us in this years of increasing recruitment, increasing offshore waters, State waters or exclu- request. numbers of older fish, increasing size of fish sive economic zone. Secondly, let me point out that the harvested, increasing catch rates in the fish- One of the things that we have been Callahan amendment makes no change ery, and expanding juvenile distribution. . . .'' trying to do with our management substantively in the fisheries laws. The An independent red snapper stock assess- councils is to develop that kind of uni- laws are going to be enforced, whether ment sanctioned by NMFS, and that was con- form practice of how you can best fish by the Federal authorities or the State ducted by a Dr. Rothschild and the University a fishery without catching in the proc- authorities, the same. of Massachusetts, concluded that the red ess what they call the bycatch, which Thirdly, the gentleman from Louisi- snapper stock appears to be ``healthy'' and are also, and when you are fishing for ana (Mr. LIVINGSTON) made the point, that ``recruitment'' is increasing. shrimp, you are catching three times the fact that in Louisiana, Mississippi NMFS chose not to use this stock assess- as much bycatch as you are fish. That and Alabama there is a 3-mile fisheries ment. They used their ``own developed bycatch has an economic value. If you limit enforcement for State authori- science'' to conclude that the red snapper are going to wipe out a species by it as ties, and in Texas and Florida, 3 stock was still threatened enough to require a bycatch, you are going to be wiping leagues enforcement authority. Lit- the mandatory use of BRDs or FEDs. out somebody else’s business. erally, it sets up a crazy boundary line Again, extending this fish boundary for our So in the best economic interest, it for enforcement. states does not make it easier on fishermen. does not make sense to essentially give It does not mean the Coast Guard is Louisiana has as tough or comparable fish- States this exclusive jurisdiction at not going to be out there. The Coast eries enforcement laws in almost every area the expense of other fishermen in the Guard will still enforce the laws out- that the Feds do. ocean. That is why the council of this side the 3 leagues. It will still be there In cases where someone catches beyond jurisdiction is opposed to this. The to protect against drug induction into their limit or is a consistent violator, Louisiana, States indicate they do not have the our country. It will still be there pro- like the Feds, requires criminal fines, allows resources to manage it, have the patrol tecting the fisheries laws on its side of for confiscation of property and other pen- boats and so on. that 3 leagues. alties. It really does makes sense to keep This amendment simply means that But, Louisiana goes furtherÐthey allow, un- these jurisdictions as they have. These Louisiana and Mississippi and Alabama like the Feds in most cases, for additional States have coastal Zone Management would enjoy the same enforcement ju- fines to be paid to the state to help towards Plans. They have exclusive authority risdictional authority that Texas and restoration of the impacted fishery. that has been granted them to regulate Florida have in the same Gulf waters. And, Louisiana, I am told, has tougher laws in certain instances activities in these Finally, let me point out that the on gill nets. Unlike Federal waters, there is a zones. So there is essentially a local, Gulf Fisheries Council finds itself in total ban on gill nets in LA waters except for State, Federal cooperation that has great problems with our own NMFS au- allowing a special type of strike net, that can- been working well all these years. thority here in Washington. National not be left unattended, for only 2 limited spe- The only reason you want to extend Marine Fisheries consistently over- cies. this jurisdiction is to take away Fed- rules the Gulf Council. The Gulf Coun- Louisiana is properly managing their fish- eral Government authority and give it cil has great problems with our own eries and has been for yearsÐif that were not to the States, and that might be in the authority here in Washington, D.C. But the case Louisiana would not annually be best interest of some commercial inter- let me assure you of one thing, we in ranked as the top 1, 2, or 3 nationwide pro- ests in that State, but it will not be in Louisiana are as sincerely interested in H7222 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 maintaining a red snapper population Mr. SAXTON. Mr. Chairman, I rise in the appropriations bill and bring his proposal as any of you, believe me, from Califor- opposition to the Callahan amendment. back to Congress next year as a regular bill. nia or Maryland may be. It is my opinion that this amendment That way we in the fishing industry can Red snapper are important to our would have a devastating effect on study and comment on the bill. If he is un- willing to do that, I would ask you to vote commercial industry. It is also impor- many Gulf of Mexico fisheries. against Congressman Callahan’s rider on the tant to our sports fisheries industry. If Let me just say, Mr. Chairman, that appropriations bill. the commercial red snapper industry is I have the utmost regard for the gen- Thank you for your consideration of my at all worried, it is not worried about tleman from Alabama and for his con- comments on this issue and for your work who enforces the laws 3 miles or 9 stituents. I would like to point out supporting our seafood businesses. miles or 12 miles outside of our bound- that we have heard from some of them Sincerely, aries. They are more concerned that who oppose the gentleman’s amend- PHIL HORN. the sports fishermen do not get a big- ment. For example, the Gulf of Mexico ORANGE BEACH FISHING ASSOCIATION, ger share of the quota. Fisheries Management Council voted 9 Orange Beach, AL, July 27, 1998. That is the real battle. Right now the to 2 to oppose the gentleman’s amend- U.S. House of Representatives, few boats who fish commercially take ment. Washington, DC. 51 percent of the red snapper quotas I also have a communication here DEAR CONGRESSMAN, We fully support the right now. Sports fishermen would love from the Clark Seafood Company from Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Coun- to have a bigger share of that. That is Pascagoula, Mississippi. Let me quote cil’s position to oppose the rider attached to a battle they fight at the council level. from their letter: H.R. 4276 by Congressman Sonny Callahan. It would extend state waters for Alabama, Mis- It has nothing to do with what author- ‘‘I think Congressman Callahan was probably trying to do something help- sissippi and Louisiana from 3 to 9 miles out. ity enforces the law. Although we believe the primary reason for I can assure you, red snapper is criti- ful for commercial and recreational introducing this rider was intended to sup- cal to the sportsmen and to the com- fishing when he wrote’’ his proposal, port the fishery, ramifications have since mercial interests in our State and ‘‘but his proposal, a rider on the appro- been identified that would make the adop- those of us who want to see that won- priations bill, leaves an awful lot of tion of this rider extremely detrimental to derful species of fish preserved. We do questions unanswered and could cause the fishery. some big problems for Gulf fishermen.’’ Ten million dollars in studies, funded by our job in Louisiana and Mississippi Congress, show that reducing shrimp trawl and Alabama to preserve them. We I also have a letter from the Orange County Fishing Association from Or- bycatch is the single most important ele- simply want the same authority that is ment in the recovery of the red snapper fish- accorded Florida and Texas in that re- ange County, Alabama: ‘‘We fully sup- ery. Studies indicate that the stock could gard. port the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Man- not recover in the allotted time allowed The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman agement Council’s position’’ in opposi- under the Magnuson Act even with a com- from Maryland (Mr. GILCHREST) has 21⁄2 tion to the Callahan amendment, they plete closure of the directed red snapper fish- minutes remaining, and the gentleman say. ‘‘The National Marine Fisheries ery (charter/recreational and commercial) without bycatch reduction. Without 50% re- from Alabama (Mr. CALLAHAN) has 21⁄2 Service states that if they lose the val- uable miles for bycatch reduction, duction in bycatch the fishery cannot re- minutes remaining and the right to cover. close. their only alternative would be to The state of Louisiana has a law that pro- Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Chairman, I lower the allowable catch for red snap- hibits enforcing bycatch reduction devices or yield 1 minute to the gentleman from per and thereby extend the closure con- turtle excluder devices in state waters. Last New York (Mr. BOEHLERT). siderably.’’ week at the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Manage- (Mr. BOEHLERT asked and was given We have a letter from the Destin ment Council Meeting the state of Mis- permission to revise and extend his re- Charter Boats Association to the same sissippi’s representative stated that they marks.) effect. We have a letter from the Gal- have no intention of requiring bycatch re- duction devices in state waters, as did the Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, let veston Party Boats, Inc. to the same effect. We have a letter from the Pan- representative from the State of Alabama. me point out to my colleagues that The National Marine Fisheries Service this is not a new issue. In 1995 the Re- ama Boatman Association and they states that if they lose these valuable miles publican-controlled Congress spoke say, ‘‘This rider will be devastating to for bycatch reduction their only alternative loud and clear on the need for bycatch the hook and line fishermen in the Gulf would be to lower the total allowable catch devices. By a vote of 294 to 129 during of Mexico.’’ for red snapper and thereby extend the clo- reauthorization of the Magnuson Act, Mr. Chairman, I include for the sure considerably. Recreational saltwater RECORD the following correspondence: fishing contributes a $7 billion dollar impact the House voted to allow the bycatch annually to these five states. The con- devices regulations to move forward. CLARK SEAFOOD COMPANY, INC., Pascagoula, MS, July 29, 1998. sequences of adoption of this rider would de- I suggest that Members go back and Hon. TRENT LOTT, stroy the ability to preserve this industry check their vote in the 104th Congress Russell Building, and the impacts associated with it. When and be consistent, because absolutely Washington, DC. you include the economic impact of the com- nothing has changed since that time. DEAR SENATOR LOTT: I apologize for wait- mercial fishery as well, the impact of clo- The red snapper and other fish are just ing this late to contact your office about sures is staggering. as vulnerable to poor shrimping prac- Sonny Callahan’s bill to extend the state wa- Numerous delays (since 1990) on imple- menting bycatch reduction devices (BRD’s) tices, the bycatch devices are just as ters of Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana out to nine miles. have been granted to the shrimping industry effective in reducing the problem. I think Congressman Callahan was prob- to accommodate design and minimize shrimp I urge my colleagues not to be fooled. ably trying to do something helpful for com- loss. During this same period, the directed This is not an amendment to protect mercial and recreational fishing when he recreational/charter red snapper fishery has States’ rights. This is an amendment wrote his proposed law extending the fish- given up 60% of their bag limit and suffered to undermine environmental protec- eries jurisdiction in the Gulf out to nine through a 5 week closure. We urge you to op- tion. This is not an amendment that miles. But his proposal, a rider on the appro- pose this rider so that ALL industries con- will correct language in the bill. This priations bill, leaves an awful lot of ques- tribute to saving this valuable resource. Best Regards, is an attempt to block efforts to strike tions unanswered and could cause some big problems for Gulf fishermen and for people BOBBI M. WALKER, the very damaging language in the bill. like me in the commercial fishing business. President. The Gulf of Mexico Fishery Manage- I don’t think a law that makes such big ment Council, Gulf charter boat fisher- changes in the way we operate and that DESTIN CHARTER BOAT ASSOCIATION, men and red snapper fishermen, as well could cost a lot of fishermen a large amount Destin, FL, July 27, 1998. as environmental groups and the gov- of money should be passed without giving all The 100 members and families of the Destin ernor of Louisiana, are all adamantly of us a chance to ask questions about it and Charter Boat Association stand adamantly opposed. at least try to make changes where we see opposed to the Callahan rider that has been attached to the appropriations bill H.R. 4276. Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Chairman, I problems. Congressman Goss has tried to make changes to minimize the problems but This bill will be a disaster for the red snap- yield the balance of my time to the his efforts raise other questions for us. pers fisheries and the lives that depend on gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. I would appreciate it if you would ask Con- the recreational and commercial catch of red SAXTON). gressman Callahan to remove his rider on snappers. The red snapper fisheries will soon August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7223 close because the shrimping industry is about a rider to the Appropriations Bill that not one hearing has been held on the ef- catching and killing millions of pounds of ju- which has been attached by Congressman fects of this change. Mr. CALLAHAN's amend- venile red snappers as by-catch to their Callahan from Alabama. This rider will be ment was granted a waiver for authorizing on devastating to the hook and line fishermen shrimp catch. These juvenile red snappers an appropriations bill, and neither the Commit- are inadvertently caught in the shrimp net in the Gulf of Mexico. If the Appropriations and are discarded back into the water dead. Bill is passed with this rider, we will be faced tee on Resources or its Subcommittee on The N.M.F.S. has recognized that the kill- with the very real possibility of a rec- Fisheries Conservation, Wildlife and Oceans, ing of juvenile red snappers as by-catch is reational red snapper fishery closure this which have authorizing jurisdiction over fish- one of the leading major causes of the de- year and a possible continued closure for the eries issues, have had the opportunity to ex- cline of red snapper stocks. N.M.F.S. has re- next several years. Any recreational fishery amine this issue. It would be ill-advised to give cently ordered all shrimp boats in federal closure has severe detrimental social and this amendment the force of law without know- waters to utilize a proven and well tested by- economic consequences to the local fishing ing its effects. catch reduction device (BRD). communities and the citizens in general I have letters here from recreational and The problem is, the shrimping industry is along the Gulf Coast. In fact, this closure being allowed to kill a large portion of the and its impact might be something from commercial fishermen from the Gulf of Mexico, snapper population as a useless by-catch which many residents of those coastal areas most of which implore Congress to reject this that they discard and has no value to them might never fully recover. We implore you to amendment until a hearing is held, so that whatsoever, while the red snapper fisheries is act now to prevent this disaster! The prob- their concerns can be addressed. Also, here is having their limits and quota’s reduced to lem is confusing and complex, but perhaps the roll call vote taken by the Gulf of Mexico compensate for the juvenile red snappers the following explanation of the status of Fishery Management Council opposing the that the shrimp industry kills. mandatory bycatch reduction in some of the Callahan amendment. This council was estab- The Callahan rider will change the state Gulf Coast states will help you see the ur- lished by the direction of Congress to help water boundary lines to 9 miles from 3 miles gent need for quick action to kill this rider. for all Gulf coast states (except FL where it Currently the states of Alabama, Mis- conserve fish stocks, so it would be ill-advised already is 9 miles). This change will allow sissippi, and Louisiana have state water ju- to ignore their advice. Finally, I have a copy of the shrimping industry to fish in what was risdiction up to three miles offshore. The the Statement of Administration Policy which once protected federal waters without the re- states of Florida and Texas have state water clearly states the strong opposition to this quired use of the BRD. Not only will this ac- jurisdiction up to nine miles offshore. Flor- measure. celerate the catch of juvenile red snappers, ida and Texas have state requirements regu- Until the effects of this amendment can be these inshore waters are the main breeding lating the commercial and recreational red examined, I must strongly oppose the Cal- groung for the red snappers stocks. This snapper fishery, and Florida requires by- lahan amendment. I urge all Members con- rider is the worst case scenario for the red catch reduction devices (BRDs) to be in- cerned about conservation to do the same. snapper fisheries, we are currently facing a stalled in shrimp nets. The National Marine Sept. 1st closure because of the large number Fisheries Service has required BRDs in fed- b 1445 of red snappers killed as a result of shrimp eral waters of the Gulf of Mexico since May Mr. Chairman, I ask all my col- trawl by-catch. 14, 1998. The states of Alabama, Mississippi, Everything possible must be done to defeat leagues to oppose the Callahan amend- and Louisiana do not require BRDs in their ment. the Callahan rider to H.R. 4276. The future of state waters. Presently, with Alabama, Mis- our multi million dollar recreational, com- sissippi and Louisiana extending their state Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I mercial and charter fishing industry is de- waters to nine miles offshore, the area off yield myself the balance of my time pended on it. The red snappers that are being their coasts between three and nine miles just to respond to some of the speak- killed and discarded as trash, are the life would not be subjected to the BRD require- ers. blood of the red snapper fisheries as well as ment. Thus, those states would not be par- First of all, to the gentleman from the commercial and recreational fishing in- ticipating in required bycatch mortality re- New York. This has zero, nothing, to do dustry. duction, and consequently, they would sus- with the bycatch device. Zero. Period. Your help is needed now. tain the massive killing of juvenile red snap- That is a myth, and I think Members Sincerely, per. Since the hook and line fishery is di- MIKE ELLER, should be aware of that. rectly dependent on the percentage of by- Number two, the gentleman from President, D.C.B.A. catch mortality reduction, it is very clear that the elimination of required bycatch Maryland. I doubt if he has even seen GALVESTON PARTY BOATS, INC., mortality reduction in such a vast area the Gulf of Mexico. I know he has not Galveston, TX, July 31, 1998. would be deadly to the hook and line red been shrimping there. I know he has Hon. NICHOLAS V. LAMPSON, snapper fishery. Something must be done to not been fishing there. But I do know U.S. House of Representatives, Washington, DC. save these fish. that they spend more money in the DEAR REPRESENTATIVE LAMPSON: I am We plead with you to kill this rider. We are writing to ask your help in defeating a rider Chesapeake Bay, in his district, than very concerned and conscientious about our they do for all of the Gulf of Mexico for attached to H.R. 4276. This rider, sponsored fisheries and how they are managed; this by Rep. Callahan will extend the state wa- rider will cause severe problems and greatly research. ters of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama hamper current management efforts to re- Maybe it is time for some parity in out to nine miles. Newly mandated by-catch build the currently overfished red snapper that appropriation process. Maybe we reduction devices designed to save juvenile fishery. Please insist this rider be removed ought to take half of the $21 million a red snapper are not required in state waters, from the Appropriations Bill! year they spend in the Chesapeake and including new areas added as a result of this Thank You, spend it in the Gulf of Mexico. That is bill. As such, the National Marine Fisheries R.F. ZALES II, an issue we will have to face later. Service has stated that extending state wa- President. The gentleman from New Jersey read ters would require a severe reduction or com- plete closure of the red snapper fishery in Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the Cal- all of those letters. Now, he read a let- the Gulf of Mexico. As I am sure you already lahan amendment. This amendment would ter from Orange County, Alabama. Mr. know, our industry is already fighting an up- have a devastating effect on Gulf of Mexico Chairman, there is no Orange County, hill battle for survival. The last thing we fisheries. It would effectively eliminate the re- Alabama. They are fabricating a lot of need is for NMFS to be provided with more quirement to reduce shrimp trawl bycatch in these things simply to mislead my col- ammunition to use as justification for reduc- the Gulf of Mexico. It would undermine the leagues. ing our bag limit and season. Please note in ability of the National Marine Fisheries Service My amendment does two very simple the attached letter from Dr. Kemmerer to to manage Gulf fisheries. It would set a disas- things: Number one, the National Ma- Mr. Swingle of the Gulf Council, that NMFS rine Fisheries is implementing rules is already pressuring the Gulf Council to re- trous precedent for changing jurisdictional duce our bag limit. boundaries as a means for avoiding necessary and regulations over the objections of Our information indicates this bill will be marine fisheries conservation and manage- the State of Alabama and the States of voted on this Tuesday, (August 4). Thank ment measures. This amendment would over- Louisiana and Mississippi. But, never- you for your time and consideration in this turn a significant fisheries management deci- theless, Mr. Chairman, most impor- urgent matter. sion, made based on science for the benefit of tant, my amendment says that the law Sincerely, the Gulf's fisheries. Finally, it will place an un- that is in the appropriation bill will ED SCHROEDER. funded mandate on the states, which will pre- not be effective until July 1999. I ask Members to read the amend- PANAMA CITY BOATMAN ASSOCIATION, sumably be charged with enforcement in the Panama City, FL, July 27, 1998. state waters which will be increased threefold. ment. It simply defines fisheries. We DEAR CONGRESSMAN: The Panama City In addition to the conservation arguments wanted to limit it to fisheries only be- Boatman Association is extremely concerned against this amendment, it is the simple truth cause they were passing out rumors H7224 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 that it had something to do with oil, Canady Herger Pombo Manton Payne Smith (OR) Cannon Hill Portman Markey Pelosi Smith, Adam which it has nothing to do with oil. So Chabot Hilleary Radanovich Martinez Pickett Snyder the correcting amendment just delays Chambliss Hobson Redmond Mascara Pomeroy Spratt the effective date until July 1, 1999, and Chenoweth Hoekstra Riley Matsui Porter Stabenow it defines fisheries. Christensen Hostettler Roemer McCarthy (MO) Poshard Stark Coble Hulshof Rogan McCarthy (NY) Price (NC) Stenholm The gentleman from California was Coburn Hunter Rohrabacher McDermott Pryce (OH) Stokes very eloquent. But they have a bill in Collins Hutchinson Ros-Lehtinen McGovern Quinn Strickland that will be on the floor, probably next Combest Inglis Royce McHugh Rahall Stupak week, to extend the boundaries of Cali- Condit Istook Ryun McKinney Ramstad Tanner Cook Jenkins Salmon McNulty Rangel Tauscher fornia. So it is all right for California Cooksey Johnson, Sam Sanford Meehan Regula Taylor (NC) but it is not all right for Louisiana, Cox Jones Scarborough Meek (FL) Reyes Thomas Alabama and Mississippi. Crane Kasich Schaefer, Dan Meeks (NY) Riggs Thompson Crapo Kingston Schaffer, Bob Menendez Rivers Thurman Mr. Chairman, I ask that the Mem- Cubin Klug Sensenbrenner Millender- Rodriguez Tierney bers read the amendment and to keep Danner Largent Sessions McDonald Rogers Torres in mind that it simply says that the ef- Deal Lewis (KY) Shadegg Miller (CA) Rothman Towns fective date of the language in the ap- DeLay LoBiondo Shimkus Minge Roukema Turner Diaz-Balart Lucas Shuster Mink Roybal-Allard Velazquez propriation bill is delayed until July 1, Dickey Manzullo Skeen Moakley Rush Vento 1999, and it defines fish, meaning fin Doolittle McCollum Smith (MI) Mollohan Sabo Visclosky fish, mollusks, crustaceans, and all Duncan McCrery Smith (TX) Moran (VA) Sanchez Walsh Dunn McDade Smith, Linda Morella Sanders Waters other forms of marine animal and plant Ehrlich McInnis Snowbarger Murtha Sandlin Watt (NC) life other than marine mammals and Emerson McIntosh Solomon Nadler Sawyer Waxman birds. So read the amendment, and I Ensign McIntyre Souder Neal Saxton Weldon (PA) would urge my colleagues to vote for Everett McKeon Spence Oberstar Schumer Wexler Ewing Metcalf Stearns Obey Scott Weygand the amendment. Foley Mica Stump Olver Serrano White The CHAIRMAN. The question is on Fossella Miller (FL) Sununu Ortiz Shaw Wicker the amendment offered by the gen- Fowler Moran (KS) Talent Owens Shays Wise Gallegly Myrick Tauzin Oxley Sherman Wolf tleman from Alabama (Mr. CALLAHAN). Gibbons Nethercutt Taylor (MS) Packard Sisisky Woolsey The question was taken; and the Goode Neumann Thornberry Pallone Skaggs Wynn Chairman announced that the noes ap- Goodlatte Ney Thune Parker Skelton Yates peared to have it. Goodling Northup Tiahrt Pascrell Slaughter Young (AK) Goss Norwood Traficant Pastor Smith (NJ) Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I de- Graham Nussle Upton mand a recorded vote. Granger Pappas Wamp NOT VOTING—8 The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Gutknecht Paul Watkins Ackerman Cunningham McHale Hall (TX) Paxon Watts (OK) Blagojevich Gilman Pickering Resolution 508, further proceedings on Hansen Pease Weldon (FL) Clay Gonzalez the amendment offered by the gen- Hastert Peterson (MN) Weller tleman from Alabama (Mr. CALLAHAN) Hastings (WA) Peterson (PA) Whitfield b 1513 will be postponed. Hayworth Petri Wilson Hefley Pitts Young (FL) Mr. KLINK changed his vote from SEQUENTIAL VOTES POSTPONED IN COMMITTEE ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ OF THE WHOLE NOES—261 Mesers. BAKER, ROEMER, The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Abercrombie Delahunt Hooley GALLEGLY and Mrs. CUBIN changed Resolution 508, proceedings will now Allen DeLauro Horn their votes from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ resume on those amendments on which Andrews Deutsch Houghton Archer Dicks Hoyer So the amendment was rejected. further proceedings were postponed, in Baesler Dingell Hyde The result of the vote was announced the following order: The amendment Baldacci Dixon Jackson (IL) as above recorded. offered by the gentleman from Florida Ballenger Doggett Jackson-Lee Barrett (WI) Dooley (TX) PERSONAL EXPLANATION TEARNS (Mr. S ) and the amendment of- Bass Doyle Jefferson Mr. GILMAN. Mr. Chairman, on roll- fered by the gentleman from Alabama Bateman Dreier John call 394, the amendment by the gen- Becerra Edwards Johnson (CT) (Mr. CALLAHAN). tleman from Florida (Mr. STEARNS), I The Chair will reduce to 5 minutes Bentsen Ehlers Johnson (WI) Bereuter Engel Johnson, E. B. was inadvertently detained. Had I been the time for any electronic vote after Berman English Kanjorski present, I would have voted ‘‘no.’’ the first vote in this series. Berry Eshoo Kaptur Bilbray Etheridge Kelly AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. CALLAHAN AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. STEARNS Bishop Evans Kennedy (MA) The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- Blumenauer Farr Kennedy (RI) ness is the demand for a recorded vote ness is the demand for a recorded vote Boehlert Fattah Kennelly on the amendment offered by the gen- on the amendment offered by the gen- Boehner Fawell Kildee Bonior Fazio Kilpatrick tleman from Alabama (Mr. CALLAHAN) tleman from Florida (Mr. STEARNS) on Borski Filner Kim on which further proceedings were which further proceedings were post- Boswell Forbes Kind (WI) postponed on which the noes prevailed poned and on which the noes prevailed Boucher Ford King (NY) Boyd Fox Kleczka by voice vote. by voice vote. Brady (PA) Frank (MA) Klink The Clerk will redesignate the The Clerk will designate the amend- Brady (TX) Franks (NJ) Knollenberg amendment. ment. Brown (CA) Frelinghuysen Kolbe The Clerk redesignated the amend- The Clerk designated the amend- Brown (FL) Frost Kucinich Brown (OH) Furse LaFalce ment. ment. Callahan Ganske LaHood RECORDED VOTE RECORDED VOTE Campbell Gejdenson Lampson Capps Gekas Lantos The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Cardin Gephardt Latham been demanded. been demanded. Carson Gilchrest LaTourette A recorded vote was ordered. The vote was taken by electronic de- Castle Gillmor Lazio The CHAIRMAN. This will be a 5 vice, and there were—ayes 165, noes 261, Clayton Gordon Leach Clement Green Lee minute vote. not voting 8, as follows: Clyburn Greenwood Levin The vote was taken by electronic de- [Roll No. 394] Conyers Gutierrez Lewis (CA) vice, and there were—ayes 141, noes 283, Costello Hall (OH) Lewis (GA) AYES—165 Coyne Hamilton Linder not voting 10, as follows: Aderholt Bartlett Bryant Cramer Harman Lipinski [Roll No. 395] Armey Barton Bunning Cummings Hastings (FL) Livingston Bachus Bilirakis Burr Davis (FL) Hefner Lofgren AYES—141 Baker Bliley Burton Davis (IL) Hilliard Lowey Aderholt Ballenger Barton Barcia Blunt Buyer Davis (VA) Hinchey Luther Armey Barr Berry Barr Bonilla Calvert DeFazio Hinojosa Maloney (CT) Bachus Barrett (NE) Bishop Barrett (NE) Bono Camp DeGette Holden Maloney (NY) Baker Bartlett Bliley August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7225 Blunt Goodling Paul McDermott Portman Smith, Adam through the authorizing committees. Boehner Goss Paxon McGovern Poshard Snyder Bonilla Graham Peterson (MN) McHugh Price (NC) Spratt We do not know the kinds of manage- Bono Granger Peterson (PA) McInnis Pryce (OH) Stabenow ment plans that we will deal with in Brady (TX) Gutknecht Pickett McIntyre Quinn Stark these that are now presently Federal Brown (CA) Hansen Pitts McKinney Rahall Stearns waters. There are a whole host of other Bryant Hastings (WA) Pombo McNulty Ramstad Stenholm Bunning Hayworth Radanovich Meehan Rangel Stokes problems that I think the authorizing Burr Herger Redmond Meek (FL) Reyes Strickland committees could deal with and in the Burton Hill Regula Meeks (NY) Rivers Sununu next session of Congress we may, and I Callahan Hilleary Riggs Menendez Rodriguez Talent feel fairly confident could come up Calvert Hilliard Riley Mica Roemer Tanner Chabot Hostettler Rogan Millender- Rohrabacher Tauscher with a way to find a compromise or a Chambliss Hunter Rogers McDonald Ros-Lehtinen Thune solution to this particular problem. Chenoweth Hyde Ryun Miller (CA) Rothman Thurman The other issue here is an issue, and Coble Istook Salmon Minge Roukema Tierney Collins Jefferson Sessions Mink Roybal-Allard Towns I recognize this is an issue in dispute, Combest Jenkins Shadegg Moakley Royce Traficant but it deals with unfunded mandates. If Condit John Shimkus Mollohan Rush Turner these State waters are extended out to Cook Johnson, Sam Shuster Moran (VA) Sabo Upton three leagues, the Governor of Louisi- Cooksey King (NY) Sisisky Morella Sanchez Velazquez Cramer Kingston Skelton Murtha Sanders Vento ana has told us that he does not have Crane Knollenberg Smith (OR) Nadler Sandlin Visclosky the money to create a fisheries man- Crapo Lewis (CA) Smith (TX) Neal Sanford Walsh agement plan and he does not have the Cubin Lewis (KY) Smith, Linda Neumann Sawyer Waters Davis (IL) Linder Snowbarger Ney Saxton Watkins money for enforcement. The Secretary Davis (VA) Livingston Solomon Nussle Scarborough Watt (NC) of Marine Resources in the State of Deal Lucas Souder Oberstar Schaefer, Dan Waxman Mississippi has said basically the same DeLay Manton Spence Obey Schaffer, Bob Weldon (FL) thing. So this is going to cost those Dickey McCrery Stump Olver Schumer Weldon (PA) Dingell McIntosh Tauzin Owens Scott Weller States a little money. Doolittle McKeon Taylor (MS) Pallone Sensenbrenner Wexler The other issue is conservation. The Dreier Metcalf Taylor (NC) Pappas Serrano Weygand conservation issues which deal with Duncan Miller (FL) Thomas Pascrell Shaw Whitfield these are Federal waters. The Gulf of Dunn Moran (KS) Thompson Pastor Shays Wilson Emerson Myrick Thornberry Payne Sherman Wise Mexico, these waters, do not recognize Everett Nethercutt Tiahrt Pease Skaggs Wolf any kind of boundaries. It is inherent Gallegly Northup Torres Pelosi Skeen Woolsey in the marine ecosystem that these Gekas Norwood Wamp Petri Slaughter Wynn Gibbons Ortiz Watts (OK) Pomeroy Smith (MI) Yates fish swim from one place to another. Gillmor Oxley White Porter Smith (NJ) Young (FL) There are no barriers. There are no po- Goode Packard Wicker NOT VOTING—10 litical boundary lines. There is just a Goodlatte Parker Young (AK) fishery. So to ensure a sustainable fish- Ackerman Cunningham Pickering NOES—283 Buyer Gonzalez Stupak ery, we have created basically through Clay McDade the Magnuson-Stevens Act a method Abercrombie Doggett Hoyer Coburn McHale Allen Dooley Hulshof by which the Federal Government Andrews Doyle Hutchinson b 1520 works with the States to sustain these Archer Edwards Inglis fisheries. If we carve up these waters, Mr. CAMP and Mr. FROST changed Baesler Ehlers Jackson (IL) especially the waters in these particu- Baldacci Ehrlich Jackson-Lee their vote from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ lar sensitive areas, that fisheries man- Barcia Engel (TX) Mr. SKELTON changed his vote from Barrett (WI) English Johnson (CT) agement plan to sustain the fisheries ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ Bass Ensign Johnson (WI) will not work and will basically col- Bateman Eshoo Johnson, E. B. So the amendment was rejected. lapse in my judgment. Becerra Etheridge Jones The result of the vote was announced I feel that we should hold hearings on Bentsen Evans Kanjorski as above recorded. Bereuter Ewing Kaptur this issue. I know it is important to Berman Farr Kasich AMENDMENT NO. 24 OFFERED BY MR. GILCHREST the people in the region, many people Bilbray Fattah Kelly Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Chairman, I Bilirakis Fawell Kennedy (MA) depend on jobs in this particular area, Blagojevich Fazio Kennedy (RI) offer an amendment. but the process is to go through the Blumenauer Filner Kennelly The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- committee, the questions will be an- Boehlert Foley Kildee ignate the amendment. Bonior Forbes Kilpatrick swered about conservation, unfunded Borski Ford Kim The text of the amendment is as fol- mandates, the State synchronizing Boswell Fossella Kind (WI) lows: their management plans, and I feel the Boucher Fowler Kleczka Amendment No. 24 offered by Mr. process will work a lot better. Boyd Fox Klink GILCHREST: Brady (PA) Frank (MA) Klug I urge my colleagues to vote ‘‘yes’’ Page 62, beginning at line 15, strike section Brown (FL) Franks (NJ) Kolbe on this motion to strike. Brown (OH) Frelinghuysen Kucinich 210. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance Camp Frost LaFalce The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to the of my time. Campbell Furse LaHood Canady Ganske Lampson order of the House of Tuesday, August Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I Cannon Gejdenson Lantos 4, 1998, the gentleman from Maryland rise in opposition to the amendment. Capps Gephardt Largent (Mr. GILCHREST) and a Member opposed The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Cardin Gilchrest Latham will each control 71⁄2 minutes. ALLAHAN Carson Gilman LaTourette from Alabama (Mr. C ) is recog- Castle Gordon Lazio The Chair recognizes the gentleman nized for 71⁄2 minutes. Christensen Green Leach from Maryland (Mr. GILCHREST). Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I Clayton Greenwood Lee Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may con- Clement Gutierrez Levin Clyburn Hall (OH) Lewis (GA) yield myself such time as I may con- sume. In 1861, the State of Alabama Conyers Hall (TX) Lipinski sume. The issue that we are dealing joined with a bunch of other States and Costello Hamilton LoBiondo with right now, this motion to strike, we tried to move our boundaries a lit- Cox Harman Lofgren is to take the language out of the ap- tle north. The people in New Jersey Coyne Hastert Lowey Cummings Hastings (FL) Luther propriations bill dealing with extend- and California and New York fought us Danner Hefley Maloney (CT) ing the State jurisdiction in the Gulf of and pushed us back, so we lost that Davis (FL) Hefner Maloney (NY) Mexico of Mississippi, Louisiana, and battle to expand our boundaries north. DeFazio Hinchey Manzullo DeGette Hinojosa Markey Alabama from 3 miles to 3 leagues, or This year we decided to expand our Delahunt Hobson Martinez 9.2 miles. boundaries south, thinking no one DeLauro Hoekstra Mascara I have grave reservations about this would be opposed to Alabama extend- Deutsch Holden Matsui language in the appropriations bill. ing its boundaries out into the Gulf of Diaz-Balart Hooley McCarthy (MO) Dicks Horn McCarthy (NY) Number one, mainly because it has not Mexico like the State of California is Dixon Houghton McCollum gone through a process, it has not gone going to do next week, extending their H7226 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 boundaries out into the Pacific Ocean. AMENDMENT NO. 11 OFFERED BY MR. Mr. CONYERS. Reserving the right But once again, we were beat 2–1. HUTCHINSON to object, Mr. Chairman, all I ask my There is no sense in taking this body Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I colleague: through another debate on the same offer an amendment. I have a preferential motion, and his issue. At the time of the vote, I am not The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- is one to strike, that it go at the prop- going to ask for a recorded vote and ignate the amendment. er time. I mean what is the problem? will accept defeat with humility. The text of the amendment is as fol- Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I say to Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- lows: my colleagues that when the gen- ance of my time. Amendment No. 11 offered by Mr. HUTCH- tleman from Arkansas made his re- Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Chairman, I INSON: Strike title VIII. quest, I reserved to claim the 20 min- yield myself such time as I may con- b 1550 utes time in opposition that has been sume. I want to say also with great hu- The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman agreed to as the original drafter of the mility that the gentleman from Ala- amendment that is in the bill. bama has expressed himself extremely from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON) ask unanimous consent to have the amend- I would suggest the gentleman from well. This is an issue that we will re- Arkansas be permitted to go forward. visit. I would look forward to working ment considered now? Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I It is a straight up-or-down motion on with him and the other gentleman on whether or not we should strike the this amendment in the future very ask unanimous consent that this amendment be considered. title. closely. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair just re- Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, will The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection minds the gentleman from Pennsyl- the gentleman yield? to the request of the gentleman from vania that the Committee is not at Mr. GILCHREST. I yield to the gen- Arkansas? tleman from Alabama. Mr. MCDADE. Reserving the right to that point yet. At the appropriate time Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I object, Mr. Chairman, and I shall not there may be a time limitation. just might remind him that while New object; I just want to assure that I get The Chair might make the rec- York and New Jersey and California the time. There is 20 minutes, I believe, ommendation that the gentleman from were not on our side in the battle that on each side, we have an agreement, Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON) wait until took place in the last century, most of and I rise in opposition to the gentle- the title is considered as read, and he the people from Maryland were. But man’s amendment and request the op- can offer his amendment so that the this year things have changed. I thank portunity to control the 20 minutes. gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CON- the gentleman for yielding. PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY YERS), whose amendment would be in Mr. GILCHREST. The gentleman Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, par- order when section 802 is read, can from Alabama’s words are well spoken. liamentary inquiry. make it. That way we would follow Maryland was a border State. We The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection order. stayed with the union. But this is not to the amendment to strike title VIII Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, may I about a fight between the North and at this time? ask what paragraph we are on at this the South. This is about a battle that Mr. MOLLOHAN. Reserving the right moment? all of us take together to sustain the to object, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk has read resources of this great country for fu- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman section 801. ture generations. from West Virginia reserves the right Mr. ROGERS. And, Mr. Chairman, if Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- to object and will state his reservation. the gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. ance of my time. Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, HUTCHINSON) moves to strike section The CHAIRMAN. The question is on where are we? What are we doing right 801—— the amendment offered by the gen- now? Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I tleman from Maryland (Mr. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk has just move to strike section 801. GILCHREST). read section 801. Mr. ROGERS. Would that be in order, The amendment was agreed to. Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, the and would that supersede the Conyers Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I ask gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CON- amendment? unanimous consent that the remainder YERS) was standing and was not recog- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman of the bill, through page 124, line 2, be nized. could withdraw his request and offer considered as read, printed in the Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I be- another amendment to section 801, in RECORD and open to amendment at any lieve my amendment was pending at which case it would be in order. point. the desk and was preferential, and with Mr. CONYERS. Reserving the right The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection the cooperation of my colleague on the to object, Mr. Chairman, may I explain to the request of the gentleman from Committee on the Judiciary I ask that to the distinguished chairman and my Kentucky? it be called up. friend from Pennsylvania that this is a Mr. MOLLOHAN. I object, Mr. Chair- PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY preferential motion? It is a motion, a man. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Parliamentary perfecting motion that takes prece- The CHAIRMAN. Objection is heard. inquiry, Mr. Chairman. dence over a motion to strike, and it is The Clerk will read. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will not inconsistent with anything that The Clerk read as follows: state his parliamentary inquiry. any of my colleagues are trying to do. TITLE VII—RESCISSIONS Mr. HUTCHINSON. The parliamen- DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE tary inquiry is that I have an amend- PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, par- GENERAL ADMINISTRATION ment at the desk, I was recognized, liamentary inquiry. WORKING CAPITAL FUND there was a unanimous-consent request The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will (RESCISSION) that I be allowed to proceed with my state his parliamentary inquiry. Of the unobligated balances available amendment, and I ask the Chair to rule under this heading on September 30, 1998, on that. Mr. ROGERS. If the gentleman from $45,326,000 are rescinded. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) would listen, I LEGAL ACTIVITIES suspend. think if the gentleman from Arkansas’ UNITED STATES TRUSTEE SYSTEM FUND The gentleman did ask for unani- motion is related to section 801, the (RESCISSION) mous consent to consider an amend- Conyers amendment, I think, relates to Of the unobligated balances available from ment striking all of title VIII that has section 802, if I am not mistaken. offsetting collections derived from fees col- not been granted at this time. There If that is correct, Mr. Chairman, lected pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 589a(b), has been reservations against that at would it not be that the Hutchinson $17,000,000 are rescinded. this time. motion would come first? TITLE VIII—CITIZENS PROTECTION So the question is: The CHAIRMAN. That is correct. SHORT TITLE Is there objection to the gentleman Mr. CONYERS. Continuing to reserve SEC. 801. This title may be cited as the considering his amendment at this the right to object, Mr. Chairman, this ‘‘Citizens Protection Act of 1998’’. time? is not about this bill or anything else. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7227 This is the rules of the House. A pref- amended by adding at the end the following whom shall be a Republican and one of whom erential, a perfecting, amendment has new item: shall be a Democrat. preference over a motion to strike. ‘‘530B. Ethical standards for attorneys for (c) NON-VOTING MEMBERS SERVE ADVISORY ROLE ONLY.—The non-voting members shall This is not just for my colleague’s bill the Government.’’. SUBTITLE B—PUNISHABLE CONDUCT serve on the Board in an advisory capacity or this moment. That is the way the only and shall not take part in any decisions House runs. And to my good friend PUNISHABLE CONDUCT of the Board. from Pennsylvania, his right to control SEC. 821. (a) VIOLATIONS.—The Attorney (d) SUBMISSION OF WRITTEN STATEMENT TO time is in no way impeded or blocked General shall establish, by plain rule, that it BOARD.—If the Attorney General makes no shall be punishable conduct for any Depart- determination pursuant to section 822(b) or by what I am doing. When it comes up, ment of Justice employee to— that will still be in order. imposes no penalty under section 822(c), a (1) in the absence of probable cause seek person who submitted a written statement Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, will the the indictment of any person; under section 822(a) may submit such writ- gentleman yield? (2) fail promptly to release information ten statement to the Board. Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- that would exonerate a person under indict- (e) REVIEW OF ATTORNEY GENERAL DETER- tleman from Pennsylvania. ment; MINATION.—The Board shall review all deter- Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I think (3) intentionally mislead a court as to the minations made by the Attorney General it works both ways. guilt of any person; under sections 822(b) or 822(c). Mr. CONYERS. No, it is not both (4) intentionally or knowingly misstate (f) BOARD INVESTIGATION.—In reviewing a ways. This is the rules of the House, evidence; determination with respect to a written (5) intentionally or knowingly alter evi- and I ask the Chair to give me a little statement under subsection (e), or a written dence; statement submitted under subsection (d), assistance here. (6) attempt to influence or color a witness’ the Board may investigate the allegations I was on my feet, and we have not ap- testimony; made in the written statement as the Board proved of the right of my dear friend (7) act to frustrate or impede a defendant’s considers appropriate. from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON) to go right to discovery; (g) SUBPOENA POWER.— forward. (8) offer or provide sexual activities to any (1) IN GENERAL.—The Board may issue sub- I reserve the right to object, and it government witness or potential witness; poenas requiring the attendance and testi- looks like I am not going to have much (9) leak or otherwise improperly dissemi- mony of witnesses and the production of any alternative. nate information to any person during an in- evidence relating to any matter under inves- vestigation; or The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is pre- tigation by the Board. The attendance of (10) engage in conduct that discredits the witnesses and the production of evidence pared to try to straighten this out. Department. may be required from any place within the The Chair is advised that a motion to (b) PENALTIES.—The Attorney General United States. strike the title which is what the gen- shall establish penalties for engaging in con- (2) FAILURE TO OBEY A SUBPOENA.—If a per- tleman from Arkansas is preparing to duct described in subsection (a) that shall in- son refuses to obey a subpoena issued under do, and a preferential motion to amend clude— paragraph (1), the Board may apply to a section 802, which the gentleman from (1) probation; United States district court for an order re- (2) demotion; quiring that person to appear before the Michigan has, could both be pending at (3) dismissal; the same time, which then would lead Board to give testimony, produce evidence, (4) referral of ethical charges to the bar; or both, relating to the matter under inves- the Chair to make a decision. (5) loss of pension or other retirement ben- tigation. The application may be made with- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I with- efits; in the judicial district where the hearing is draw my reservation of objection. (6) suspension from employment; and conducted or where that person is found, re- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection (7) referral of the allegations, if appro- sides, or transacts business. Any failure to to the request of the gentleman from priate, to a grand jury for possible criminal obey the order of the court may be punished Arkansas to strike title VIII? prosecution. by the court as civil contempt. There was no objection. COMPLAINTS (3) SERVICE OF SUBPOENAS.—The subpoenas Without objection, title VIII is con- SEC. 822. (a) WRITTEN STATEMENT.—A per- of the Board shall be served in the manner sidered read. son who believes that an employee of the De- provided for subpoenas issued by a United There was no objection. partment of Justice has engaged in conduct States district court under the Federal Rules The text of title VIII is as follows: described in section 821(a) may submit a of Civil Procedure for the United States dis- written statement, in such form as the At- trict courts. INTERPRETATION torney General may require, describing the (4) SERVICE OF PROCESS.—All process of any SEC. 802. As used in this title and the alleged conduct. court to which application is made under amendments made by this title, the term (b) PRELIMINARY INVESTIGATION.—Not later paragraph (2) may be served in the judicial ‘‘employee’’ includes an attorney, investiga- than 30 days after receipt of a written state- district in which the person required to be tor, or other employee of the Department of ment submitted under subsection (a), the At- served resides or may be found. Justice as well as an attorney, investigator, torney General shall conduct a preliminary (h) MEETINGS.—The Board shall meet at or accountant, acting under the authority of investigation and determine whether the al- the call of the Chairperson or a majority of the Department of Justice. legations contained in such written state- its voting members. All meetings shall be SUBTITLE A—ETHICAL STANDARDS FOR ment warrant further investigation. open to the public. The Board is authorized (c) INVESTIGATION AND PENALTY.—If the At- FEDERAL PROSECUTORS to sit where the Board considers most con- torney General determines after conducting venient given the facts of a particular com- ETHICAL STANDARDS FOR FEDERAL a preliminary investigation under subsection PROSECUTORS plaint, but shall give due consideration to (a) that further investigation is warranted, conducting its activities in the judicial dis- SEC. 811. (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 31 of the Attorney General shall within 90 days trict where the complainant resides. title 28, United States Code, is amended by further investigate the allegations and, if (i) DECISIONS.—Decisions of the Board shall adding at the end the following: the Attorney General determines that a pre- be made by majority vote of the voting mem- ‘‘ETHICAL STANDARDS FOR ATTORNEYS FOR THE ponderance of the evidence supports the alle- bers. GOVERNMENT gations, impose an appropriate penalty. (j) AUTHORITY TO IMPOSE PENALTY.—After ‘‘SEC. 530B. (a) An attorney for the Govern- MISCONDUCT REVIEW BOARD conducting such independent review and in- ment shall be subject to State laws and SEC. 823. (a) ESTABLISHMENT.—There is es- vestigation as it deems appropriate, the rules, and local Federal court rules, govern- tablished as an independent establishment a Board by a majority vote of its voting mem- ing attorneys in each State where such at- board to be known as the ‘‘Misconduct Re- bers may impose a penalty, including dismis- torney engages in that attorney’s duties, to view Board’’ (hereinafter in this title re- sal, as provided in section 821(b) as it consid- the same extent and in the same manner as ferred to as the ‘‘Board’’). ers appropriate. other attorneys in that State. (b) MEMBERSHIP.—The Board shall consist (k) COMPENSATION.— ‘‘(b) The Attorney General shall make and of— (1) PROHIBITION OF COMPENSATION OF FED- amend rules of the Department of Justice to (1) three voting members appointed by the ERAL EMPLOYEES.—Members of the Board assure compliance with this section. President, one of whom the President shall who are full-time officers or employees of ‘‘(c) As used in this section, the term ‘at- designate as Chairperson; the United States, including Members of torney for the Government’ includes any at- (2) two non-voting members appointed by Congress, may not receive additional pay, al- torney described in section 77.2(a) of part 77 the Speaker of the House of Representatives, lowances, or benefits by reason of their serv- of title 28 of the Code of Federal Regula- one of whom shall be a Republican and one of ice on the Board. tions.’’. whom shall be a Democrat; and (2) TRAVEL EXPENSES.—Each member shall (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of (3) two non-voting members appointed by receive travel expenses, including per diem sections at the beginning of such chapter is the Majority Leader of the Senate, one of in lieu of subsistence, in accordance with H7228 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 sections 5702 and 5703 of title 5, United States The CHAIRMAN. The Chair advises torneys and the State and local attor- Code. the gentleman the Committee is under neys with whom they work, to conflict- (l) EXPERTS AND CONSULTANTS.—The Board the 5-minute rule, so the gentleman is ing State conduct rules. may procure temporary and intermittent For example, if a federal prosecutor services under section 3109(b) of title 5, recognized for 5 minutes on his amend- United States Code, but at rates for individ- ment. licensed in Virginia had to interview a uals not to exceed $200 per day. Mr. MCDADE. And how much time cooperating witness in a drug case in (m) STAFF OF FEDERAL AGENCIES.—Upon am I allowed, may I ask the Chair? Florida and then oversee the use of a request of the Chairperson, the head of any The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman confidential informant in California, Federal department or agency may detail, on stand in opposition? then he would have to worry about the a reimbursable basis, any of the personnel of Mr. MCDADE. I did. rules of each State because he is engag- that department or agency to the Board to The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman ing in his duties in those States. And assist it in carrying out its duties under this multiply this by the number of inves- title. from Pennsylvania (Mr. MCDADE) will (n) OBTAINING OFFICIAL DATA.—The Board be recognized for 5 minutes at the end tigations during the course of the year, may secure directly from any department or of Mr. HUTCHINSON’s debate. we can have the attorneys for the gov- agency of the United States information nec- Mr. MCDADE. Everybody gets 5 min- ernment spending all their time. essary to enable it to carry out this title. utes? Mr. Chairman, I want to be able to Upon request of the Chairperson of the The CHAIRMAN. That is correct, the complete my statement, and I will be Board, the head of that department or agen- 5-minute rule. happy to yield at the conclusion. cy shall furnish that information to the Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I The second problem is that the pro- Board. posed legislation would allow criminal (o) MAILS.—The Board may use the United rise in support of the Hutchinson–Barr– States mails in the same manner and under Bryant amendment. defense attorneys to bring frivolous the same conditions as other departments The distinguished gentleman from ethics complaints against Federal, and agencies of the United States. Kentucky (Mr. ROGERS) has done a State and local prosecutors, creates a (p) ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT SERVICES.— masterful job in developing this appro- new federal bureaucracy called the Upon the request of the Board, the Adminis- priations bill. The title VIII, which our Misconduct Review Board to try ethics trator of General Services shall provide to amendment would strike, goes far complaints under vague standards like, the Board, on a reimbursable basis, the ad- quote, bringing discredit to the depart- ministrative support services necessary for afield from the ordinary requirements the Board to carry out its responsibilities of the spending bill. It includes almost ment, end quote. This board, the Mis- under this title. verbatim the well intentioned, but ill conduct Review Board, will have ac- (q) CONTRACT AUTHORITY.—The Board may advised, Citizen Protection Act. Includ- cess, they will have subpoena power, contract with and compensate government ing this legislative title in the bill vio- and they will have access to pending and private agencies or persons for services, criminal investigations. All their hear- without regard to section 3709 of the Revised lates the normal process in this House by bypassing committee hearings and ings will be public and open to review. Statutes (41 U.S.C. 5). They can subpoena the names of wit- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman markups, but even more importantly, nesses and informants, the identities of from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON) is rec- it is wrong on substance. The proposed under cover law enforcement officials ognized for 5 minutes. The gentleman title VIII, which is the subject of our who have infiltrated the operations of from Pennsylvania (Mr. MCDADE) has amendment, would cut to the heart of our Federal system of justice and the criminal subjects. requested time in opposition and, If Congress passes this legislation, would cripple the war on drugs, and for therefore, will be recognized for a like then the public will suffer. The winners that reason it is understandable that time. would be the drug cartels, fraudulent Mr. MOLLOHAN. Reserving the right the National Director of Drug Control telemarketing operations that prey on to object, Mr. Chairman? Policy, Barry McCaffrey, opposes this the sick and elderly and Internet por- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will provision as well as the DEA, the FBI nographers who prey on children. Why state his reservation. and the National Sheriffs Association. do I say that? Because all of these Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, re- Even though the authors of title VIII serving the right to object, there is no crimes involve multi-State investiga- are sincere in their efforts, the effect tions that would be hampered by the time agreement being offered, pro- would be devastating and demoralizing posed, on this amendment? newly created ethics bureaucracy. to our agents and officers risking their For example, in the days following The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is lives each day to fight crime. I know correct. There is no time agreement at the Oklahoma City bombing Federal that is why all former United States prosecutors’ agents conducted simulta- this point. Attorneys now serving in Congress are Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, will the neous investigations in several States. cosponsors of this amendment and are Under the proposal the laws and rules gentleman yield? leading this effort. Mr. MOLLOHAN. I yield to the gen- of each State would have governed the Now we all agree on one thing, and conduct of department prosecutors no tleman from Kentucky. that is that our Federal prosecutors Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, this matter how inconsistent those rules should live up to the highest ethical gentleman would be amenable to such might have been. What was permitted standards. The proponents of title VIII a request. in one State might not have been per- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, we say that they just want government at- mitted in another State, and because of cannot. torneys to be subject to States ethics the far-reaching and crushing impact Mr. ROGERS. The gentleman from laws. The fact is they already are. of this proposal in law enforcement, it West Virginia cannot agree to a time? Every government attorney is required is understandable that so many in the Mr. MOLLOHAN. We cannot agree to to abide by the rules and ethical guide- law enforcement community have op- a time. lines in the State they are licensed to posed this bill, from the National Sher- The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, practice law. This means the ethical iffs Association to the National Dis- the title is considereed read and the conduct of Federal prosecutors are re- trict Attorneys Associations, State gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCH- viewed by the State in which they are prosecutors, FBI, the National Associa- INSON) is recognized for 5 minutes on licensed, at the federal level by the Of- tion of Attorney Generals, the Na- his motion. fice of Professional Responsibility tional Black Prosecutors Association, PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY within the Department of Justice, the the New York State District Attorneys Mr. MCDADE. Parliamentary in- Inspector General of the Department of Association, the FBI, the DEA, the quiry, Mr. Chairman. Justice and the federal courts. Fraternal Order of Police. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will In addition, we just passed a law that But what was significant, that six state his parliamentary inquiry. said that if any prosecution is brought former attorney generals of the United Mr. MCDADE. I just need to be clear, in a frivolous fashion, then the acquit- States from Benjamin Civiletti to Ed- Mr. Chairman. ted defendant could recover attorney mond Meese, from Democrats to Re- I believe the Chair said to the gen- fees from the government. But the pro- publicans, all six have urged this House tleman from Arkansas that he gets 5 posed legislation goes way too far. It to reject this proposal and to support minutes. would subject all attorneys, Federal at- this amendment. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7229 I urge my colleagues to support the lion. The ordinary citizen cannot even any employees of such independent counsel amendment and not give way to the raise money to defend himself. The acting under the authority of the Attorney drug dealers and the defense attorneys, public at one time used to think that a General),’’. another weapon to use against law en- person was innocent until guilty. Now Page 116, line 6, strike the period and in- sert ‘‘(including any independent counsel ap- forcement in our vital efforts on the they get the impression, because of the pointed under title 28 of the United States War on Drugs. leaks, the unethical leaks that come Code and any employees of such independent Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, will from the prosecutor, that the individ- counsel acting under the authority of the At- the gentleman yield? ual is guilty. torney General).’’. Mr. HUTCHINSON. I yield to the gen- I cannot tell you the physical and Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I tleman from Massachusetts. mental distress that the gentleman reserve a point of order. Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I from Pennsylvania (Mr. MCDADE) went The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman think it is important that, because the through. Now, I see what you are talk- from Arkansas reserves a point of gentleman refers to the National Sher- ing about, and maybe we have to look order. iffs Association, the FBI and the DEA, in conference at some exemptions in The gentleman from Michigan (Mr. I think it is important for the Members drug cartels and things like that, but I CONYERS) is recognized for 5 minutes. to understand that the code of ethics think this is a ploy by the prosecutors (Mr. CONYERS asked and was given that the gentleman is referring to does to continue their unethical conduct permission to revise and extend his re- not apply to investigatory agents. without any kind of regard to the ordi- marks.) Mr. HUTCHINSON. Reclaiming the nary citizen. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I offer time, the gentleman is correct that We call this the Citizens Protection this amendment because it goes to the these ethical standards apply to gov- Act because we feel so strongly that heart of what the McDade provision is ernment attorneys, but if we have a the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. designed to do. I want all my friends on State prosecutor who is cross des- MCDADE) is just an example. What he the other side of the aisle to under- ignated to be a special Assistant did for the House of Representatives is stand that this just is an important United States Attorney, then that absolutely essential to our independ- part of fleshing out the concept that State prosecutor would be subject to ence. But what we are trying to do for has been brought forward here. In fact, these rules and the Misconduct Review the ordinary citizen is absolutely im- for those who support the McDade Board bureaucracy that is established portant to their individual protection. amendment, there should not be any under this rule. We believe we need an independent trouble supporting this provision that So I urge my colleagues to support body to watch over them, to give them really perfects it. this amendment. some sort of controls so that they do Now, as we have seen, the present Mr. MURTHA. Mr. Chairman, I rise not go off without control and then be independent counsel, perhaps more in opposition to the amendment offered promoted, as somebody was after Waco, than anyone else, should be subject to by the gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. and the terrible, terrible injustice they each and every stringent provision that HUTCHINSON). did to the individual in Atlanta with is included in this measure. As a mat- Mr. Chairman, I just want the Mem- the leaks that came out of the Justice ter of fact, I presume that it is an acci- bers of this House to know that I sat Department. dent that the measure was drafted so beside the gentleman from Pennsyl- So I feel very strongly that we have that this was left out. If anybody has vania (Mr. JOE MCDADE), a Member of to get some kind of control. The legis- any information to the contrary, I Congress for 8 years, while he was in- lation that we drew we hoped would would sure like to know about it. vestigated for 6 years; the most insid- come through the authorizing commit- ious tactics that could possibly have tee. We could not work it out at this Not only has the present independent been against him. late date. counsel demonstrated a number of con- The appeals process, which is sup- I just hope that the Members, and we flicts of interest in carrying out his du- posed to make sure that the Federal have almost 200 cosponsors of this leg- ties, the person that he is investigating prosecutors do not get out of control, islation, we have said to the Justice has been under investigation for al- the Federal appeal process ruled two to Department, if you have individual sit- most 5 years, with hundreds of lawyers one. He went 2 years under indictment. uations that you would like us to look and investigators, with 17 congres- The Federal jury, which came from an at, we would be glad to look at that. sional committees. area that said 70 percent of the politi- They have not come back with any- Now, there have also been questions cians are crooks, ruled in 3 hours. He thing. They just want to take this out. about the independent counsel having was acquitted. They want no kind of controls from the violated the First Amendment protec- tions, the principles of fairness, and en- b 1545 outside. So we believe that it is important to gaged in the use of coercive investiga- In the indictment they said campaign put some kind of controls over the un- tive techniques. Familiar, Mr. contributions are bribes. The rules of ethical conduct of the Justice Depart- MCDADE? Sound familiar with your the House are clear about the legality ment. As a matter of fact, we have 50 case? And trampled over important of campaign contributions, that hono- chief justices of the United States that privileges between attorneys and their rariums are legal gratuities. That is have said that they believe that the client. As a matter of fact, going into what they charged him with. They Justice Department of the United court saying the attorney-client does were trying to intimidate a Member of States should fall under the ethical not even involve or affect the President the House of Representatives. rules of each of the States. of the United States, as well as be- In addition to that, in addition to I feel very strongly about this, and I tween the Secret Service. trying to intimidate the House of Rep- would urge Members to vote against A great idea. Let us have the Presi- resentatives and ignore the rules of the this amendment. If there is something dent decide whether he wants to have House, which the public saw imme- that has to be adjusted, we are glad to his life protected, or talk about the diately, he was reelected three times work with them in trying to adjust this issues in his job. during this period, when they leaked when we get to conference. For example, the independent coun- everything that could possibly be sel to whom I refer has chosen to con- PERFECTING AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. leaked, using those unethical tactics CONYERS tinue representing clients, the tobacco we are talking about during this period Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I offer interests; at one time, if not presently, of time. Then, after this is all over, a perfecting amendment. the National Republican Party. How they tried to promote the prosecutor to The Clerk read as follows: about knocking out the class action judge. Perfecting amendment offered by Mr. representation in the tobacco suits? He Now, this is a Member of Congress CONYERS: went into the Federal Circuit Court in who was able to raise $1 million to de- Page 116, line 5, after ‘‘Justice’’ insert ‘‘(in- person to knock out their certification fend himself. The ordinary citizen, the cluding any independent counsel appointed of a class action suit, and guess what? ordinary person, cannot raise $1 mil- under title 28 of the United States Code and He succeeded. I wonder why? H7230 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 So he has issued subpoenas to book And whether or not they choose to we heard earlier in opposition to the stores, ‘‘What is she reading?’’ He sub- agree with the person’s politics, wheth- Hutchinson-Barr-Bryant amendment. poenaed a former staffer of mine who er it is on President Clinton’s part with What we are witnessing here, under now works in the Drug Policy Office, Ken Starr, whether it is a Republican the guise of the usual flowery language who suggested that maybe Linda Tripp that disagrees with a Republican or a emanating forth from proponents of was violating the wiretap laws. He sub- Democrat with a Republican, it is un- this latest foray, is really precisely poenaed him. Remember that, Bob Wie- fair to trample people’s lives. what they purport to be against; and ner? Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, re- that is, a back door effort to do some- Well, it goes on and on. The whole claiming my time, I hope the sponsors thing that they do not often have problem is that this provision, whether of this amendment will not object to the—— it is struck or kept, should not be ex- this provision. Mr. McDADE. Mr. Chairman, the amined without us including the inde- POINT OF ORDER gentleman is not addressing a point of pendent counsel. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman order, Mr. Chairman. I demand regular Does anybody have any reasonable from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON) is rec- order. objection to that? We want to include ognized on his point of order. The CHAIRMAN. In the opinion of all these prosecutors, all these Depart- Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, the Chair, the gentleman is addressing ment of Justice types, but not the my point of order goes to the fact that the point of order. independent counsel, the one who is the gentleman’s perfecting amendment Mr. BARR of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, maybe doing more of this than any- that he is offering is not a proper per- what this amendment purports to do is body else that we know. He is under fecting amendment because it expands to amend the independent counsel stat- four investigations; the court, the De- the scope of the provision in question ute to make a political point about the partment of Justice, the D.C. Bar, and to add legislative language not covered independent counsel statute not allow- even he promised to have his own inde- in title VIII of the bill before us. It is able under the rules of the House as an pendent counsel office investigate the not a perfecting amendment, a proper amendment to an appropriations bill. leaks. perfecting amendment, because it It purports, therefore, to legislate sub- So, in all appropriateness, we ask opens up new legislative language stantively, and the words of the gen- that this perfecting amendment to my amending 28 U.S.C. Section 591, which tleman from Illinois make this very friend from Arkansas’s amendment be is the independent counsel law, and clear. He is launching a political at- included in their consideration. that is not covered under title VIII of tack on the statutory authority of the Mr. FORD. Mr. Chairman, will the the existing bill. Therefore, it is not a independent counsel, something which gentleman yield? proper perfecting amendment. is not the subject matter of this appro- Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- The CHAIRMAN. Do other Members priations bill, and certainly is not the tleman from Tennessee. wish to speak on the point of order? subject matter of this amendment, the Mr. FORD. Mr. Chairman, I thank Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, this Hutchinson-Barr-Bryant amendment. the gentleman for yielding. should not be too difficult. The amend- Therefore, I would urge the Chair to Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposi- ment should be made in order because sustain the point of order, as this is an tion to the Hutchinson-Barr-Bryant it reiterates that the independent effort by the gentleman from Michigan amendment and rise in strong support counsel is included in the group of indi- (Mr. CONYERS) to legislate, and not of including the Conyers amendment, viduals covered under the McDade only to legislate on an appropriations the Conyers perfecting amendment. amendment, specifying that the defini- bill, but in a way that goes far beyond I would say that I bring a bit of per- tion of employee or other attorney act- the language and subject matter of the sonal experience to this as well. I am ing under the authority of the Attor- underlying amendment itself. saddened to have heard what happened ney General shall include the independ- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman to my new friend and my father’s ent counsel. from Tennessee will suspend. friend over the years, the gentleman House rule XXI(2)(c) provides that, Do other Members wish to be heard from Pennsylvania (Mr. MCDADE). ‘‘No amendment to a general appro- on the point of order? The CHAIRMAN. The time of the priation shall be in order changing the PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CON- existing law.’’ This amendment does Mr. ROHRABACHER. Parliamentary YERS) has expired. not change existing law; it is a perfect- inquiry, Mr. Chairman. (By unanimous consent, Mr. CONYERS ing amendment. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will was allowed to proceed for 1 additional My amendment does not create addi- state the parliamentary inquiry. minute.) tional legislation nor does it extend Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Chairman, Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield the range of the term ‘‘employee’’ in I have a point of information. to the gentleman from Tennessee (Mr. the amendment. It simply reiterates Under the 5-minute rule, Mr. Chair- FORD). the fact that under the current law, the man, do we have 5 minutes that we can Mr. FORD. As a matter of fact, my independent counsel under Section 28 talk on this situation, as well as on the father was indicted some several years of the U.S. Code is appropriate. underlying bill or underlying amend- back by one of the prosecutors working There are several supporting sources ment that is before us? with counsel Starr, Hickman Ewing. in current law supporting the clarifica- We have an amendment to an amend- After 5 years of investigating, several tion, 28 U.S.C. 594(a), 28 U.S.C. 596(a), ment, now. The 5-minute rule, does years, one trial, a second trial, abuse and the Supreme Court decision in that mean that we can ask for 5 min- by the Justice Department, simply Morrison v. Olsen. We have all kinds of utes on the Conyers proposal to Hutch- trampling the rights of an individual, cases that I presume that the distin- inson, and then go on as well to speak another Member of Congress, I cannot guished chairman and his able Parlia- 5 minutes on Hutchinson? tell you the pain that it exacted on my mentarian have found. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would re- family and my father personally. I urge that this perfecting amend- mind the gentleman that we are dis- Fortunately and blessedly, we were ment be considered in order. cussing the pending point of order by able to survive. But plentiful and often the gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. b times it seemed exhaustless resources 1600 HUTCHINSON). As soon as that is dis- of the Federal Government, for pros- The CHAIRMAN. Do the other Mem- posed of, we will be under the 5-minute ecutors not to be reined in, not to have bers wish to speak on the point of rule, in which any Member can stand to comply with some sense of ethical order? and debate the underlying issue. conduct, Mr. Chairman, I submit to Mr. BARR of Georgia. I do, Mr. The Chair will inquire further, is you it is un-American. I submit to my Chairman. there any Member who wishes to speak friends on the other side, no matter The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman on the point of order? how noble their wanting to strike this from Georgia (Mr. BARR) is recognized. Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. provision might be, we have American Mr. BARR of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, Chairman, I wish to be heard on the rights, we have American liberties. this is almost as bizarre as the words point of order. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7231 The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recog- the independent counsel is generally absolutely too far. It does not matter nizes the gentleman from North Caro- covered by rule XVI(e) of the Federal whether they are from the right or lina (Mr. WATT). Rules of Criminal Procedure. they are from the left, or where they Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. So under the independent counsel live in this country, what color they Chairman, I think that the underlying statute there is little doubt, Mr. Chair- are. legislation legislating on an appropria- man, that this is covered under the The fact of the matter is that we tions bill is inappropriate. I am op- statute, and is wholly appropriate to be have violations of the Constitution posed to the underlying legislation. offered at this time and at this place. being perpetrated on us by those who But if the underlying legislation on an The CHAIRMAN. Are there further work in the Justice Department, and it appropriations bill is appropriate, then Members who wish to be heard on the is off the scale when we look at this so would the amendment be appro- point of order? special prosecutor. He has gone too far. priate. We cannot say we are going to Ms. WATERS. I wish to speak on the This should be ruled in order. waive the rule and allow legislation on point of order, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Are there further an appropriations bill, and then say or The CHAIRMAN. The gentlewoman Members who wish to be heard on this? make a point of order that an amend- from California (Ms. WATERS) is recog- Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Chairman, ment to that legislation is non- nized. I wish to speak on the point of order. germane. That is the perspective I Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman bring. to the point of order. I would like to re- from California (Mr. ROHRABACHER) is Mr. Chairman, I would join other iterate the point that was made by the recognized. Members who would say that the un- gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Chairman, derlying legislation itself should not be WATT). We cannot in fact have an un- let me just say, and I understand the on this bill. But if the underlying legis- derlying piece of legislation that is in passion, I have a little passion myself lation should be on the bill, then this order that is legislating on an appro- when I get up and have these discus- amendment ought to be allowed to be priation, and then even discuss the pos- sions, but I think the underlying argu- on the bill, and ought to be found to be sibility that an amendment to that is ments that the gentlewoman just made germane. out of order because it is legislating on are correct. If this is in the appropria- The CHAIRMAN. Are there other an appropriation and it does not fit, for tions bill, there should be an amend- Members who wish to be heard on the any reason. ment that is permitted. If we are con- point of order? I think it is important that this de- cerned about the abuse of power of Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I wish bate not be stymied by any attempt to prosecutors, we have to be concerned to be heard. manipulate the rules. This may be one about the abuse of power of special The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman of the most important debates we will prosecutors. from Massachusetts (Mr. MEEHAN) is have in this House. It is not just about The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is pre- recognized to speak on the point of the basic questions that are being pared to rule. order. Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, this raised in the underlying legislation. The gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. bill applies to all Department of Jus- The amendment that is being offered HUTCHINSON) makes a point of order tice employees, or those who are acting by the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. that the amendment offered by the under the Department of Justice au- CONYERS) fits so well in this discussion. gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CON- thority. In this instance, the independ- We are watching unfold before our YERS) is legislation in violation of ent counsel is both. very eyes a violation of the Constitu- clause 2 of rule XXI. We all know when the independent tion of the United States of America. If The gentleman from Michigan seeks counsel seeks to expand his jurisdic- there is one thing I cherish, it is my to amend certain legislative language tion, who does he go to see? He goes in privacy. We cannot have a special pros- permitted to remain in the bill. The to see the Attorney General and he ex- ecutor who will go to a bookstore and relevant provision defines the term pands his jurisdiction. When he needs demand to know what books someone ‘‘employee’’ as used in title 8 of the to get his budget squared away, when purchased in America. That is unac- bill. The provision would denote the he needs additional resources, who did ceptable. term ‘‘employee’’ to include an attor- he go to see? He goes in to see the De- But there are other questions that ney, investigator, or other employee of partment of Justice and talks to the are being raised as it relates to the spe- the Department of Justice, and an at- employees. That is why this amend- cial prosecutor that deal with the vio- torney, investigator, or accountant ment is in order. lation of the Constitution of the United acting under the authority of the De- Let me just, for the purposes of peo- States, not only the violation of pri- partment of Justice. ple on the other side of the aisle, pro- vacy that I just alluded to. We have The amendment offered by the gen- vide some supporting sources in cur- questions of wiretap and wiretapping. tleman from Michigan seeks to par- rent law to support this clarification. We are looking at a whole new debate ticularize that the term ‘‘employee’’ Mr. Chairman, 28 U.S.C. 594(a) pro- about attorney-client privileges. This also includes any independent counsel vides that an independent counsel ap- is too important to be sidelined by appointed under title 28 of the United pointed under this chapter shall have someone who does not want to hear it States Code and any employees of such full power and independent authority because they have got another agenda. independent counsel who is under the to exercise all investigative and pros- Mr. Chairman, there should be no authority of the Department of Jus- ecutorial functions and powers of the question that this is in order. I hope we tice. Department of Justice, the Attorney do not have to get to the point that the The amendment does not propose a General, or any other officer or em- chairman will even have to rule on change in title 28. Rather, it identifies ployee of the Department of Justice. this. I do not want this body divided on one particular category of official as Or let us take 28 U.S. 596, Section A. a partisan basis on this issue. included in the classes of officials cov- It provides that an independent counsel This is not about partisan politics at ered by the legislative language al- appointed under this chapter may be this moment. This is about the Con- ready in the bill. removed from office, other than by im- stitution of the United States of Amer- As recorded on page 663 of the House peachment and conviction, by who? By ica, and whether or not citizens are Rules and Manual, where legislative only the personal action of the Attor- going to have basic protections that we language is permitted to remain in a ney General of the United States. thought were guaranteed to us by the general appropriation bill, a germane Or let us look at Section 3, the Su- Constitution. amendment merely perfecting that lan- preme Court, in Morrison versus Olson, So whether we are talking about the guage and not adding further legisla- at 487 U.S.C. 654. It held that an inde- special prosecutor or whether we are tion is in order, but an amendment ef- pendent counsel is subject to removal talking about the underlying legisla- fecting further legislation is not in by the Attorney General. tion, what we are talking about is indi- order. Or let us look at the appeals court in viduals who have run wild, who are In the opinion of the Chair, the the D.C. Circuit, a case holding that tramping on our rights, who have gone amendment offered by the gentleman H7232 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) merely dividuals working there have had to MCDADE) back when he had the prob- perfects the legislative language per- spend more than $12 million in hiring lems that I know he did, which I think mitted to remain in the bill, and re- lawyers to appear in depositions and were wrong. I believe he was taken frains from adding further legislation. before grand juries who are not in any through hell, and I think it was a very Accordingly, the point of order is way substantively involved. We are improper methodology being used by overruled. going on and on. that prosecutor from all I knew about Mr. KANJORSKI. Mr. Chairman, I What this ends up doing, and the it at the time, and I knew a great deal. move to strike the last word. American people know this, is destroy- But, unfortunately, I cannot agree Mr. Chairman, I want to compliment ing respect for the American judicial with the proposal that is in the bill my two colleagues, the gentlemen from system, all with the idea that every today and that is being amended or at- Pennsylvania, Mr. MCDADE and Mr. now and then some prosecutor who tempting to be amended by the gen- MURTHA, for coming before the Con- wears a pearl handled 45 revolver can tleman from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS). I gress in a timely fashion and raising a find somebody who has a grudge cannot agree with that. I have to sup- question that is very important. I want against an elected official, Republican port the Hutchinson amendment to to say to my colleagues on both sides or Democrat, who can make a point to strike all of this and urge that all of it of the aisle, this is not a political issue. bring a charge, and substantiate that be taken out of this bill, because I do This is an issue of fundamental fair- charge by just marginal testimony, not think we can simply go to con- ness. sufficient to get an indictment, but not ference and perfect something that is I occupy the District immediately sufficient to convict. as bad, unfortunately, as the way this south of the gentleman from Pennsyl- b 1615 is crafted. vania (Mr. JOE MCDADE). Members can- I would hope that we could come But you can take that public official not imagine what this government and back at some point as a body, through down the road to ruination, that fam- those prosecutors did to that Member the Committee on the Judiciary or oth- ily down the road to ruination, our sys- of Congress. I do not know of any other erwise, and craft something that would tem down the road to ruination. Why? Member of Congress who could have address the problems that I think are Why do we sit here? Why are we so in- withstood the leaks and the poisonous genuine, that the Members from Penn- nocent? Why have we not recognized spirit in which the public persecution, that this has been happening over and sylvania, in particular, of both parties not prosecution, occurred. Yes, it was over and over again? Why are we ask- have brought to our attention today lucky that JOE MCDADE had $1 million, ing for the McDade-Murtha language? and so forcefully and rightfully. or could raise $1 million, but how many It was an understanding in the bar But what the underlying provision more Americans could raise that and in the prosecutorial field and in that we are talking about striking amount? That is the substantive ques- the defense field that there were cer- would do would be in essence to permit tion, here. tain standards of ethics and honor, cer- anybody who has some prosecutor who On the amendment offered by the tain things you did not do, an unwrit- goes after them to complain to the At- gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CON- ten code. Well, the prosecutors in the torney General, and the Attorney Gen- YERS), does anyone in their right mind United States today, whether they be eral is going to have to respond with as not understand that at some point, and special counsels or regular prosecutors, vague a standard as bringing discredit certainly next year, this Congress is have shown us that they are going to on the department within 30 days. That going to have to decide what conduct push it to the end of the envelope and could cause untold delays in hundreds we are going to allow prosecutors or beyond. They are going to write their and thousands of prosecutions across special counsels to engage in? How far own definition of what standards are. the country. afield can they go from their assign- So it is incumbent upon this House, It is an enormous cost in bureauc- ment? What can they do? the people’s House, to determine that if racy that we would be setting up in the I am sort of embarrassed to bring up you are going to push it to the edge of process of doing this. Then if you did another issue, but we had a prosecution the envelope and you are going to de- not agree, of course, with the result of in Pennsylvania, and the gentlemen stroy lives and you are going to pros- what the Attorney General decided in from Pennsylvania, Mr. JOE MCDADE ecute people unreasonably at high ex- 30 days, you would have a 7-member and Mr. JACK MURTHA, will remember pense and at a detriment to both, the board that has been created, that sits this. There was a treasurer of the com- family and this democracy, then this in essence outside of the body politic of monwealth of Pennsylvania, where a public House should take action. the Justice Department, to review the prosecutor was prosecuting the im- We are saying we want to codify the questions that may be raised by some- proper award of a contract and brought code of standards. We want to say what body who might be the subject of in- a criminal action. The witnesses in they have to do and what they do not dictment or prosecution. that case testified against the contrac- have to do, and we want to make them It is not that you may be should not tor and the contractor was convicted of subject to a review board. Why should have some review in very limited cir- bribery. not public officials and all Americans cumstances, but they are not defined Within one month, the prosecutors in know that when they get taken by well in the proposal, unfortunately, not that case had those very same wit- their government for hundreds of bil- very narrow at all. The most dangerous nesses change their story 180 degrees to lions of dollars, hundreds of prosecu- provision, from my perspective as the now testify against the treasurer of the tors, thousands of FBI agents, that chairman of the Subcommittee on Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and they have a right not to be ruined. Crime in the House, is the fact that in- threatened those witnesses with pros- That is what the McDade-Murtha lan- formation could be obtained by this ecution of their wives and their chil- guage and the perfecting amendment of board from anywhere in the govern- dren. It is a famous story across this the gentleman from Michigan is going ment, including criminal investigation country. It was witnessed on tele- to accomplish. files, information about informants vision. I urge my colleagues to vote for jus- and potential witnesses, classified doc- The only way that treasurer could tice. uments, or information covered by the protect the future of his family and Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Chairman, I Privacy Act. And things that are re- maintain his pension was to commit move to strike the requisite number of quired, all of these things that would suicide before sentencing, and he did. words. be required could be revealed in public, Mr. Chairman, if that is not extreme, I have the greatest respect for the since apparently the board operates in extraordinary prosecutorial activity, I gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. public. There is nothing in this provi- do not know what is. I have witnessed MCDADE) and the gentleman from sion that would prohibit the informa- it in the case of the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. MURTHA) and the tion that I just described from becom- Pennsylvania (Mr. JOE MCDADE). I am cause that they are out here about ing public. witnessing it with this special counsel. today. Indeed the difficulties that exist with There are statistics now available I happen to have counseled the gen- this provision are myriad. I hope that that, in the White House alone, the in- tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. today this debate on the amendment of August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7233 the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. not work, even though we want to have negotiation by telling me that he was CONYERS) does not deteriorate into a oversight. It will not operate correctly. the United States of America, it was debate over a question about a special It cannot operate, and I urge in the end time that I realized it. prosecutor. We can debate that until that it be stricken. The fact is, no prosecutor in this the cows come home. That is a highly Mr. KING. Mr. Chairman, I move to country is the United States of Amer- political debate. strike the requisite number of words. ica. The United States of America is Obviously, if you are going to cover Mr. Chairman, I rise today in strong the people. We represent the people. It prosecutors, you should be covering opposition to the Hutchinson amend- is time for us to stand up and say no to probably all prosecutors, but we should ment and in strong support of the Citi- these prosecutors, no matter where not be debating the merits or the pros zens Protection Act of my good friend, they are coming from. and cons of the independent counsel the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Prosecutors are out of control. They out here today. We should be debating MCDADE). are ruining the civil liberties of people the merits and the pros and cons of the I think it is time to put a human face in this country. I am a Republican. I underlying premise that everything on the abuses that are carried out by cannot understand how Members in my would be covered by this, all prosecu- prosecutors in this country, prosecu- party who say they support individual tors, in essence, in a fashion that is un- tors who consistently violate the rights could ever allow a prosecutor to workable and unmanageable and im- rights of innocent human beings, inno- trample upon the rights of innocent possible to cope with as a practical cent citizens and their families, friends people, the abuses that they are guilty matter. and relatives. of. So I strongly urge the Members, how- By putting a human face on it, I And I just want to concur in what the ever passionate you may be, and I am would like to refer to a predecessor gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. passionate about my good friend, the that I had here in the Congress, Angelo MURTHA) said. I do not know how the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Roncallo, a man who a number of years gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. MCDADE) and about the improprieties ago sat in the very seat that I occupy MCDADE) went through what he went that do go on from time to time with today. And what went on in his case through over the years and stood tall overzealous prosecutors who are out of has happened in so many other cases and survived it. He is a man of courage. control in our system, I do not believe over the years. He is a man who had the guts to stand that the underlying matter here today, He was a man who was brought in by up. But you think of the average citi- the part that is in the bill today that the United States Attorney and told he zen in your home town, if they went we are trying to strike, is the solution. had to deliver a political leader. When after him, would he have that same It is not the solution. Unfortunately, it he refused to do that, he was called be- guts? Would he have that stamina? makes things more difficult than it fore the grand jury. His family was Would his family be able to resist it? cures. harassed. He was indicted. His friends I again urge and implore all of my In the strongest of terms, I urge were indicted. Everything was leaked colleagues to defeat the Hutchinson Members’ deliberate consideration of to the newspapers. This man’s career amendment, stand with the gentleman this, and I would urge Members ulti- was destroyed. He was defeated here in from Pennsylvania (Mr. MCDADE), mately, after dispensing with the Con- the United States Congress. stand with the Constitution and say no yers amendment, to vote to strike, to Finally his case went to trial. The to this untrammeled abuse of power by support the efforts of the gentleman jury was out 30 minutes and he was ac- the prosecutors and our Justice De- from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON) to do quitted. It came out during that case partment today. that. that all throughout, from day one, the Mr. STUPAK. Mr. Chairman, I move Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, will prosecutors had evidence that would to strike the requisite number of the gentleman yield? have completely exonerated this de- words. Mr. MCCOLLUM. I yield to the gen- fendant. They knew it from day one. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, will tleman from Michigan. Throughout the trial, they had U.S. the gentleman yield? Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I Marshals stand around the U.S. Attor- Mr. STUPAK. I yield to the gen- thank the gentleman for his presen- ney’s office because they had convinced tleman from Michigan. tation. Right now we are debating this the judge that this Congressman, An- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I just small provision, not the whole thrust gelo Roncallo, was somehow going to want to respond to my dear friend, the of the measure. Do you not agree with have them killed during the trial. The chairman of the Subcommittee on me that there have been more than suf- jury had to witness this, marshals in Crime, the gentleman from Florida ficient leaks under the independent the courtroom day in and day out. (Mr. MCCOLLUM). counsel to include him in this meas- When the trial was over the judge My amendment is not about Kenneth ure? said it was a disgrace. He referred it to Starr and his investigations. It is Mr. MCCOLLUM. I do not believe the the Justice Department to have it in- about whether or not the office of spe- debate should be on the question of vestigated. What was done? Nothing. cial prosecutor, who is employed by the what is going on with the special pros- That is what always happens. Nothing. Department of Justice, is considered to ecutor or with what is going on with The gentleman from Georgia said it be an employee. The answer is per- the Clinton investigation or any of is bizarre. He said that opposition to fectly obvious. I can only gather that that. The focus of this debate today, the Hutchinson amendment is bizarre. it may have been a mistake that it was you are distracting by your amend- He said the comments of the gentleman not included in here. ment and debate on it to try to get at from Pennsylvania (Mr. MURTHA) were Starr is going to be investigated. Ken Starr. I think that is wrong. bizarre. I would say to the gentleman There is plenty of time for him. But The issue underlying this today is from Georgia, if he were targeted by a this is to include this in the provision not that question, however volatile prosecutor, if they tried to destroy his of the McDade measure. that is. That will be dealt with in due reputation, he would find that bizarre. I thank the gentleman for yielding to course by the Committee on the Judici- I think it is important for all of us in me. ary, if Ken Starr sends anything up this Chamber, those of us who are self- Mr. STUPAK. Mr. Chairman, I rise in here or when we debate independent righteous, those of us who say it could support of this amendment, the Con- counsel. But what we are debating never happen to us, let you be the tar- yers amendment. Whether we agree or today, and should be, is that the under- get of an unscrupulous prosecutor, and not with the underlying provision of lying premise you are trying to amend you will see how fast you will change the bill, the Murtha amendment, I do is fatally flawed. your tune when you see your wife har- believe and I do not see any reason why The board structure that the gen- assed and your children. And I can go we should exclude any branch of the tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. on and on with case after case. I re- Justice Department or any employee. MCDADE) and the gentleman from member I was once negotiating with What the Murtha-McDade language es- Pennsylvania (Mr. MURTHA) have the United States Attorney in a case tablishes is an ethical standard for worked into this bill unfortunately will and he ended the discussion, ended the Federal prosecutors. H7234 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 If we take a look at the independent the U.S. Attorney’s office who has to point of order, I used the word bizarre. prosecutor right now, we have given be a member of the bar of the jurisdic- It brings to mind something else. It the individual unfettered subpoena tion in which that office is located. brings to mind the Bizarro World. power and about $40 million. b 1630 There used to be a comic book called What does the Murtha-McDade lan- the Bizarro World. And I suppose in the guage say? It says prosecutors and em- If there are, in fact, problems from Bizarro World we can have people tak- ployees of the Justice Department time to time with prosecutors, as there ing the well of the House, while they shall not seek indictment of any person will be with any profession, then there are seeking to dismantle the prosecu- without probable cause. It says that are already very clear, very well time- torial mechanisms of this country they shall not fail to promptly release tested mechanisms, including prosecu- seeking to uphold the laws of this information that would exonerate a tion of a prosecutor for violation of country, and say that an effort made to person under indictment, intentionally civil rights or other violations of Fed- sustain and protect those mechanisms mislead a court regarding the guilt of a eral law, ethical proceedings, disbar- is somehow un-American. person, intentionally or knowingly ment proceedings that can be brought The most appropriate legal theory misstate or alter evidence, I know that against that assistant U.S. attorney or here is let us not throw the baby out has never happened in the current in- that government attorney or that with the bath water. There are mecha- vestigation, attempt to influence a wit- United States attorney, if need be. nisms to protect against abuse. Let us The problem with this language, the ness’ testimony, frustrate or impede use them and let us do away with this underlying language, and I am not even the defendant’s right to discover evi- sham amendment to the amendment, going to bother talking about the dence, offer or provide sexual activities which is an attack on the independent amendment to the amendment so to any government witness, leak or im- counsel and has nothing to do with the much. We know what that is. That is properly disseminate information dur- underlying amendment. ing an investigation, or engage in con- an anti-Ken Starr amendment. The problem is the mechanism that the un- Mrs. FOWLER. Mr. Chairman, I move duct that discredits the Justice De- to strike the requisite number of partment. If that does not sound like derlying language in title VIII, which we seek to remove, purports to do. It words. what has been happening with this spe- Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposi- cial investigation, this special prosecu- will, make no mistake about it, wreak havoc on very important prosecutions. tion to the Hutchinson amendment. I tor, and what has happened on the see this as an issue of accountability. McDade case and some of these other I am somewhat amused. We sit in the Committee on the Judiciary frequently Department of Justice attorneys cases, that is why we need this provi- should be required to abide by the same sion. and, if we come up with an example of how a law has been abused or why a ethics rules as all other attorneys. This is not a political debate. This is These attorneys should be held ac- what happens in prosecutions. That is law is necessary, many of those same folks, including the distinguished gen- countable to the same standards set by why the McDade and Murtha language the State Supreme Court that granted has come before us. So what the Con- tleman who offers the amendment to the amendment, immediately say, oh, each lawyer his or her license to prac- yers amendment says is that the inde- tice law in that State. pendent counsels exercise their author- we are trying to legislate by example; As most of my colleagues know, I ity on behalf of the Attorney General oh, what we are talking about are just have always been a supporter of con- and the Department of Justice, and examples of something; show us the gressional accountability. And in 1995, that we must ensure that all prosecu- law. Well, of course, now what they are when the Republicans took control of tors are held to the same standard no doing is they are raising one example Congress, one of our first orders of matter who they are investigating, and they are saying we have to throw business was to make this institution whether it is the President or the per- the baby out with the bath water. abide by the same laws we make for ev- son on the street. There are mechanisms already in We cannot create a special class of place to address prosecutorial abuse erybody else. Well, my colleagues, we Federal prosecutors. That is what we and prosecutorial misconduct. Those are facing the same issue of account- do if we defeat this amendment. This mechanisms are used day in and day ability here. perfecting amendment needs to be out whenever there is substantial evi- Our Founding Fathers wisely re- passed. We cannot create a special dence of abuse. Defense attorneys file jected the notion of kings and dictators class of Federal prosecutors that is not motions constantly. There are ethical and, instead, they formed this experi- subject to Justice Department ethical proceedings brought. The problem with mental government called a democ- standards. the mechanism set up under this, is racy. Well, in our system of govern- I urge all Members to support the this review panel would have access to ment no one is above the law. No civil Conyers amendment and rein in the the whole range of the prosecution’s servant, no law enforcement official, prosecutors across the United States case, including names of witnesses, no Congressman, not even the Presi- and especially the independent, so- theories of prosecution, undercover dent of the United States is above the called special prosecutors. material. It would be, in effect, Mr. law in our country. But over the past Mr. BARR of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, Chairman, a defense attorney’s dream, decade, the Department of Justice has I move to strike the requisite number which is why the defense attorneys like made every attempt to exempt its own of words. it. attorneys from the ethical rules of the Mr. Chairman, let us just kind of sit We have an oath of office that is States granting them their licenses. back for just a moment here, now that taken by prosecutors, Federal prosecu- Should the Department of Justice be we have at least gotten some of the tors. They do represent the people of above the State laws of ethics? I do not other Members that think that if you this country. I know my friend from see any reason why they should. talk loud enough and bang on the lec- New York sort of denigrated that, but Time and time again it has come to tern and talk fast enough you will get prosecutors do speak for and they pro- my attention that Department of Jus- applause and that really means some- tect the rights of the people of this tice lawyers have conducted them- thing. Let us alternatively focus on ex- country. And if we allowed the lan- selves in a questionable manner while actly what is going on here. guage, as amended, or even without the representing the Federal Government All of the points that the gentleman amendment by the gentleman from without any penalty or oversight. just made, and he has extensive back- Michigan, of title VIII to remain, then What happened to our good friend and ground in law enforcement and I re- we will be severely hampering the abil- colleague, the gentleman from Penn- spect that, all of those things are al- ity of Federal prosecutors to represent sylvania (Mr. JOE MCDADE), could hap- ready encompassed in both the internal properly and to protect the people of pen to any citizen in this country, and rules and procedures of the Department this country. they would not have possibly the cour- of Justice. They are already encom- The gentleman from New York (Mr. age or the resources that the gen- passed indirectly and directly in those KING) apparently paid close attention tleman from Pennsylvania did to fight rules that pertain to every lawyer in to my words, because earlier, on my it and win. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7235 U.S. District Court Judge George I listened to the debate, and I think crooks, when you look at a Justice De- Dunn, Jr., summed it up best when he we have got to step back and reflect. partment that is allowed to really run said, This is really rather simple. It is about amuck, to trample the rights of indi- Congress intended Federal lawyers to be ethics. That is what it is about. It is viduals, to trample the civil liberties of subject to regulation by the State boards of about ethics, and the existing code of individuals all in the quest for a con- which they are members and to comply with ethics that every single state prosecu- viction, all in the quest for fulfilling an the appropriate ethical standards. tor subscribes to ought to be applied to agenda that they may have personally I urge my fellow Members to oppose Department of Justice attorneys. set and that they personally believe this amendment and to oppose the Jus- I do not think that is asking too that this person or group of persons tice Department’s attempt to create much. We have heard a lot about law might be guilty of a crime, which one set of standards for their attorneys enforcement concerns, but that should sometimes might be the case, all we and another set for the other attorneys not justify the creation of a lesser are asking for, Mr. Chairman, and I say in this country. standard of ethics for Federal prosecu- to my friends who are sponsoring this Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I tors. It just does not work. amendment and those who I have a per- move to strike the requisite number of We should pause and think about the sonal relationship with who are spon- words. power of the prosecutor, and I know soring the striking of this provision, is Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, will that power. I was an elected prosecutor that our prosecutors have to behave the gentleman yield? for more than 20 years. I understand and have to follow a certain set of ethi- Mr. DELAHUNT. I yield to the gen- that power. I know what it can do to cal standards. tleman from Michigan. individuals. I know what it can do to There is nothing unusual, nothing bi- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I families, and it should be exercised ju- zarre, nothing un-American, about thank the gentleman for yielding to diciously. I submit that most prosecu- what is being asked, for all that we are me. tors, Federal and State, do that. asking for prosecutors, Federal and My colleagues, we want to keep this The single admonition that I would State, around this Nation to do is fol- in order and proportional. This is not a instruct each and every assistant dis- low a set of standards, the highest set referendum on Kenneth Starr or the in- trict attorney was to never abuse the of standards. vestigation he is conducting or the power of that office, never abuse the My dear friend, the gentleman from leaks, real or alleged, that are being in- power of that office, because it is an Massachusetts (Mr. DELAHUNT), a vestigated. This is an amendment that enormous power. former prosecutor and a dear freshman makes it clear to all to whom it had There is no power greater in a democ- colleague, I think stated it perhaps not previously been clear that all inde- racy where you have the capacity to best. There is no greater power in this pendent counsel, whatever their names, take the individual liberties away from democracy than the power that our are employees of the Department of an individual. That is the ultimate prosecutors in this great America have; Justice. No more, no less. Does not im- power, and if that power is abused, it for they deserve it but they should also plicate Kenneth Starr as a malefactor. begins the process of the erosion of a be checked and it also should be tem- It does not praise him. It does not say healthy democracy. pered. anything about where we come down I dare say the prosecutor should be b 1645 on the investigation. We can be for or held to the highest possible standards, For the individual cases and exam- against the President or anything in the highest code of ethics, because the ples, we have heard the gentleman between. American people have given them an from Pennsylvania (Mr. MCDADE) and All we are making clear to everybody extraordinary power, whether they are my father and others here in this body. that has brought this measure, and it independent counsels, whether they are But let us protect every American, not would be nice for some of the sponsors State prosecutors, whether they are just those in this House of Representa- of this amendment, well, some of them United States Attorneys. tives. And certainly this provision al- already have agreed with this amend- Mr. FORD. Mr. Chairman, I move to lows us to do that. ment, but we cannot have an amend- strike the requisite number of words. Mr. COX of California. Mr. Chairman, ment that covers the Department of Mr. Chairman, all of the legal argu- I move to strike the requisite number Justice U.S. attorneys and leave out ments have been stated quite coher- of words. the independent counsel, who is a U.S. ently and cogently by members of the Mr. Chairman, I know my colleague attorney. All the laws that govern the Committee on the Judiciary and even from California (Ms. WATERS) will be U.S. prosecutors apply to the independ- have been challenged by Members on recognized immediately because we are ent counsel. It should be obvious with- the other side of the aisle. going back and forth, and in fact, hav- out the amendment that he is included. I would side with those who support ing spoken with her about this, I know But since a few do not have this clear, the McDade-Murtha provision and cer- that we agree on our conclusion on the I introduced the perfecting amend- tainly even side with the ranking mem- merits of this legislation. ment. That is all this is about. ber on the Committee on the Judiciary, Reform of our justice system, civil Mr. Chairman, I thank my distin- the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. and criminal, is a top priority of this guished colleague from Massachusetts, CONYERS), in his efforts to perfect the Congress. The low reputation of the who serves with me on the Committee provision. legal profession is of greatest concern on the Judiciary, for allowing me this I would say in addition to all that to ethical lawyers. I rise in support of time. has been said, and not to be redundant, America’s prosecutors, the overwhelm- Mr. DELAHUNT. Reclaiming my not to repeat what has been said by ing percentage of whom already follow time, Mr. Chairman, I was not present, those who spoke so eloquently, includ- the rules written out in this legisla- nor did I serve in this body when the ing my dear friends the gentleman tion. In fact, I dare say virtually all of gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. JOE from New York (Mr. KING) and the gen- them do every day. MCDADE) went through the troubles tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. KAN- Citizens need to understand that that have been related to during the JORSKI), that we are also faced with a they have a legal right to have these course of this particular debate. public relations challenge as well. rules followed, and that is the purpose Just let me say this, as a former One of the reasons that so many of this today. prosecutor and as an elected represent- around this Nation distrust and mis- Reputable lawyers know better than ative of the people of the 10th District trust politicians, the gentleman from anyone else that all too often the of Massachusetts, I have got to know Pennsylvania (Mr. MURTHA) spoke courts today are too slow; that all too the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. about the district in which the jurors often justice is delayed or, because of MCDADE), I know him well, and I know were pooled from in the trial of the delay, denied; all too often the justice of no one who has such unimpeachable gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. system does not ultimately deliver integrity as the gentleman from Penn- MCDADE), where 70 percent of those in what all of us intend it to deliver. sylvania, and I just simply want to that area thought that we were all Because I have so much faith in make that statement for the RECORD. crooks or thought that politicians were America’s prosecutors, because I want H7236 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 to support our criminal justice system, Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I move I am so glad this debate is taking I want the American people to support to strike the requisite number of place. I wish we had this in our com- that justice system as well. I want ev- words. mittee. It should have been in sub- erybody to understand that when they Mr. Chairman, this debate is long committee. It should be in full com- go to court and they are accused of a overdue. It is about time we dealt with mittee. We should bring people in here crime or their family member is ac- what is wrong with the Justice Depart- to tell their stories about what has cused of a crime or when they are a ment and with unethical prosecutors in happened to them. victim and the perpetrator of that this Nation. I should be able to tell my colleagues crime is accused that justice will be Legislators at the state level, at the about a young woman named Kimber done and that it will be fair and on the federal level have been absolutely sup- Smith, who is 19 years old who is sit- level. portive of the criminal justice system. ting in a federal penitentiary today. There are 10 commandments in this They have done everything to give law And so I do not know all of the de- bill. The 10 commandments are already enforcement the ability to apprehend tails about the gentleman from Penn- observed by good prosecutors every- criminals. They have done everything sylvania (Mr. MCDADE). I have heard where and certainly by good prosecu- to be supportive of the Justice Depart- some. But I want to tell my colleagues, tors in our Department of Justice and ment. indeed, I know many because I have those who work in the Offices of Inde- When we look at the generosity of heard the stories and I have seen the pendent Counsels appointed pursuant public policy makers on wire tapping, devastation of unethical prosecutors. to statute. no-knock, search and seizure, all of It is time for America to believe that Let me just read these 10 command- that, when we look at mandatory mini- even though we want criminals pros- ments, because it is so self-evident we mums, three-strikes-and-you-are-out ecuted, indicted and locked up, we do must stand in support of them. conspiracy laws, we have been very not intend for them to be violated and Commandment number one, just generous, sending a message to the run over and disrespected by anybody’s reading from the 10 provisions of the people of this Nation, we want crimi- prosecutor. McDade-Murtha bill, says: Thou shalt nals locked up. I want to tell my colleagues some- not indict without probable cause. Who We never knew that they would take thing. No matter what they think here today says it should be otherwise? the generosity of good public policy about the gentlewoman from California Of course, this is a rule that must bind makers and turn it on its head. We (Ms. WATERS) on the left or somebody prosecutors throughout the Govern- never knew that they would take out on the right, there is one thing that I ment. after innocent people in so many dif- hold dear that was drummed in my Number two: Prosecutors cannot hide ferent ways. head as a student, and that was the information that would exonerate a I cannot even get into telling my col- Constitution of the United States of person who has been indicted. They leagues how they use conspiracy laws. America. cannot hide information that would ex- No evidence, no documentation. These I was made to believe that I would be onerate someone who might not be conspiracy laws are filling up the pris- protected. Even when things were guilty of the crime with which they ons. going wrong, there would be some hope have been charged. That is a rule that I do not know all of the details of the because we had a system of justice that good prosecutors already live by. case of the gentleman from Pennsyl- would make sure that the average per- A prosecutor must not intentionally vania (Mr. MCDADE). I have heard son, in the final analysis, would have mislead a court as to the guilt of the about it. But I want to tell my col- an opportunity for redress. And I be- accused. Of course he or she must not leagues, I know thousands of Mr. lieved in this Constitution. They do that. McDades who do not have any money, taught it to me too well. And that is A prosecutor must not intentionally who do not have any attorneys, whose why I can stand here and fight for it or knowingly alter evidence or inten- grandmothers and mothers come cry- and feel very comfortable with it. tionally or knowingly misstate evi- ing to my office for me to help them I do not care about some other pros- dence. and I cannot do anything because my ecutor who is a prosecutor in a state Number six: A prosecutor must not powerful government, prosecutors, somewhere in Georgia who gets up and try to color a witness’ testimony. Number seven: A prosecutor must have run amuck. defends all prosecutors. I know the rep- not prevent a defendant from obtaining Let me tell my colleagues, my hat is utation of some prosecutors. I know evidence that he or she is entitled to. off, my hat is off to the ranking mem- the lives that have been ruined by Number eight: A prosecutor must not ber of the Committee on the Judiciary, some state prosecutors. They are no offer or provide sex as an inducement my friend from Detroit, Michigan, for better than these federal ones that we to any government witness or potential this amendment. are talking about. witness. But I want to tell my colleagues, I I want criminals to be apprehended, Number nine: The prosecutor should want to make it very clear, he is talk- to be investigated, to be locked up. But not leak information improperly dur- ing about a generic prosecutor. I am I want people to have a chance to have ing the course of an investigation. talking about generic prosecutors, but their voices heard and to have a chance We all know about the importance of I am talking about Ken Starr also. I to be innocent until proven guilty, and grand jury secrecy to the ultimate suc- want to tell my colleagues, he is under that is why we have got to go after this cessful prosecution, because if wit- investigation. He is the poster boy for special prosecutor. nesses are tipped off in advance they unethical prosecutors. I want to tell Mr. BUYER. Mr. Chairman, I move to cannot convict the guilty. my colleagues he is under investigation strike the requisite number of words. And number 10: Prosecutors should because he has leaks about Hillary Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to not engage in conduct that discredits Clinton getting indicted, leaks about the Conyers perfecting amendment, the Department of Justice. Bruce Lindsey getting indicted, leaks and I also rise in opposition to the mo- These 10 commandments in this leg- about Monica Lewinsky meeting with tion to strike the McDade language islation are not controversial. They are Ken Starr in New York City, leaks that is in this bill. not controversial if applied to any about Betty Currie’s testimony, leaks Quite simply, the issue before us is prosecutor within the Department of about FBI wire conversations at the whether the Government attorneys at Justice or within the office of any inde- Ritz Carlton hotel. Even the Repub- the Department of Justice should abide pendent counsel. Every lawyer, cer- licans have said he should be inves- by ethical rules that all other attor- tainly every Government lawyer tigated. neys have to abide by, or can they should follow these rules. So let me make it clear. We would make up their own standards of con- I urge my colleagues to vote yes on not be in this debate today, we would duct. McDade-Murtha and yes on the perfect- not have this amendment today if this Title VIII of the bill before us re- ing amendment offered by the former poster boy for unethical prosecutors quires that federal prosecutors comply chairman the gentleman from Michi- had not violated all of us in the way he with the same state laws and the rules gan (Mr. CONYERS). has done. of ethics as other attorneys. In 1980, August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7237 Congress passed legislation that has re- any forms of standards; if in fact they Mr. CONYERS. Right, okay. But you quired that each Department of Justice are faced with a conflict of interest; do not support it. lawyer to be ‘‘duly licensed and author- whether their actions are based on a Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. ized to practice as an attorney under vindication; whether they operate in Chairman, let me respond to many of the laws of a state, territory, or the bad faith; whether they have abusive or the issues that have been expressed on District of Columbia.’’ overzealous misconduct; whether in The courts have held that the statute fact they are leaking information or this floor. I would say to the gen- requires the Federal Government law- unauthorized disclosure of grand jury tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. yers to comply with the ethics rules of testimony or materials; or in fact they MCDADE) that it is my view that no one their respective states of admission. I are abusing the legal process to harass deserves to be put on the trash heap of believe this is very reasonable. This is or threaten another; or if they begin to life. That sounds like a very harsh not a burdensome nor onerous require- withhold exculpatory evidence, wheth- statement, harsh in that that is not ment. The attorneys for the Federal er it is in favor of a defendant or to im- your destiny. But I do believe that we Government should comply with the peach a particular witness; in fact, have an opportunity today to maybe ethics standards in the states in which where there are issues of conflict of in- speak for many across this country they are duly licensed. terest, whether they are personal, pe- who unfortunately were caught in the The gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. cuniary, or in fact political. web of someone’s misdirections and So the list goes on and on, and I HUTCHINSON) in his arguments pre- someone’s abuse of power. I think it is sented an example whereby an assist- think that, in fact, these attorneys should be held to the same standards appropriate for those of us who are ant United States attorney might find members of the Committee on the Ju- himself litigating in one state and whatever jurisdiction for which they diciary to say first of all that prosecu- through the discovery process find are in. tors across this Nation have done good himself in two other states. And it says When we look at the symbol of lady that if in fact that assistant U.S. At- justice, lady justice is blind. Lady jus- by the people of the United States of torney is faced then with inconsistent tice is blind. And what it means to the America. They have prosecuted those rules on ethics, what should he do? We prosecutors are that they are not to well deserving of being prosecuted. seek the higher standard. That is an litigate a case based on an unjustified They are by and large officers of the easy one. We should always be for the standard, whether it is picking on an court who have upheld the highest higher standard. individual because of their age, race, standards. gender, national origin, or the station So when ethics conflict, do not go to But why are we arguing against pros- the floor and figure out how we can of life. The process is meant to be fair. But lady justice is neither blind, nor ecutors being subject to the same State maneuver through it. Seek the higher does she give a wink to unethical or laws and rules and local court rules standard. So I do not see the inconsist- abusive behavior or conduct. and State bar rules of ethics of any ency. If in fact you set your life to live b 1700 other series of lawyers? Why are we by the higher standard, it is an easy suggesting to our constituents that question. What I would ask Members to do is to I also want to comment, the Depart- oppose the motion to strike and to sup- there is something wrong with requir- ment of Justice, I think unfortunately, port the gentleman from Pennsylva- ing prosecutors, Federal prosecutors, has repeatedly attempted to thwart I nia’s legislation. With regard to the to not seek an indictment against you think this bill and those who believe first vote that will come up, the Con- with no probable cause, to fail to that Government attorneys should be yers amendment, this one is really sim- promptly release information that may held accountable and be held to the ple. When you have about eight or so or exonerate you, to attempt to alter or highest standard. now maybe approaching nine independ- misstate evidence, to attempt to influ- Government prosecutors, they hold ent counsels investigating the Presi- ence or color a witness’s testimony, to tremendous power over life and liberty dent, whether this move to go to the act to frustrate or impede a defend- of our citizens. I have been one, so I un- higher standard is good, what is obvi- ant’s right to discovery. Yes, the scale derstand the power out of the U.S. At- ous about this amendment as I listen of justice is balanced and blind, and torney’s Office. to some of my colleagues speak, this is that is what we are speaking of, to be Title VIII of the bill will hold these more about politics than substance. able to equalize you in a court of law Government attorneys, paid for by the You should stop and ask yourself here, against a Federal prosecutor represent- tax dollars, to the same standards of does good politics make good law? No, ing the United States of America. those attorneys and create a system it does not. whereby they will be held accountable So you are having fun. What fun are Let me thank the prosecutors for to the regulations and in fact to the you having is attacking Ken Starr. going into the deep South in the 1960s highest standard. What makes me most disappointed is and raising up issues of civil rights Under title VIII, the Department of to hear members on the Committee on that other local attorneys could not Justice employees, they are held to the Judiciary who must sit in judg- raise up. Let me thank them, The De- such actions. And I sat down here as I ment and receive this report already partment of Justice did an amazing job was listening to the debate and prejudging their decisions to attack in dealing with those issues. So we re- thought I would make a list of all the independent counsel. I am extraor- alize the uniqueness of the Federal types of things: Whether their state- dinarily disappointed in my colleagues. prosecutor system. But does that mean ments and actions by these prosecutors Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. that we throw people to the trash heap in due process; whether it is through Chairman, I move to strike the req- of life? Do you lose all of your rights the process of filing criminal informa- uisite number of words. because you go into a Federal court- tion, grand jury, the discovery process, (Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas asked and was given permission to revise and room and a prosecutor says, ‘‘I have all the jury alone, the judge alone; wheth- of the rights’’? I believe that we are er their actions are misleading in evi- extend her remarks.) Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, will doing nothing here that is against the dence or by the witness or by the law; the gentlewoman yield? boundaries of respect for our Federal whether their statements are inac- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. I yield system. curate or they use inflammatory ac- to the gentleman from Michigan. Let me say as a member again of the tions or use disparaging statements; or Mr. CONYERS. I say to my dear col- Committee on the Judiciary, yes, I whether their actions are meant to league on the Committee on the Judi- think our job might have been better if harass or use threats or verbal abuse of ciary from Indiana, we just want to a witness or of a defense counsel; if make clear that the U.S. attorneys we had had hearings. In fact, I do not their actions are inflammatory or they have one standard and the Conyers think we are finished. I think we must use false accusations, they use threat- amendment wants that standard to in- proceed and investigate even more ening language or they ridicule a de- clude the independent counsel, what- whether there are abuses across the fendant or witness or the defense coun- ever they may be named, right? country. But today we are where we sel; or if in fact that their actions are Mr. BUYER. I understand your are. We have an opportunity not to at- arbitrary or capricious, held without amendment, yes. tack but to make better. H7238 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 This underlying amendment and, of have great respect for the gentleman appropriate way and it will affect the course, the amendment by the gen- from Pennsylvania, I know very little administration of justice in our Fed- tleman from Michigan that includes about his case, and mistakes have been eral courts and the victims of these the independent counsel, which is very made, I am sure, throughout the his- crimes over and over. clear, an employee of the Department tory of prosecution. Again, I have great respect for the of Justice is the independent counsel, But, as has been said, by and large people who are on the other side of this will protect you the citizen against the these are good prosecutors trying to do issue and who have been involved in kinds of abuses which we face every the right thing in many cases and in the system. But yet I cannot help but day. very dangerous, very tough situations. believe we are literally throwing out There is something that is scriptur- What I want to guard against here the baby with the bath water here. ally based. When the woman touched today is an overreaction to these anec- This is totally, totally unnecessary. the hem of the garment of Jesus in dotal cases. What I want to prevent is For instance, it creates a misconduct Christian doctrine, it was said she was the handcuffing of our prosecutors by board which is constituted by appoint- healed. It is difficult, of course, to per- requiring them as the underlying bill ments from the President and from the ceive prosecutors along those lines. does to submit to the rules and regula- House. That in and of itself violates But they say touch their garment and tions and disciplinary proceedings of the very sacred separation of powers get no justice. That is the tragedy of the various States in which they pros- doctrine. what we face. ecute. These 50 States have enacted in- I would encourage people to stand There is no disgrace for those of us dividually their own rules and regula- back from the emotion and look at the who are members of the Committee on tions for disciplinary procedures for overall interest of justice here, not just the Judiciary to be able to say that their attorneys and rightfully so, be- a few very bad cases, and stand behind Ken Starr has abused the process, for I cause they practice in their State our prosecutors who already subscribe am glad the President is going to the courts. to these ethical laws and oppose this grand jury. I am glad Monica The U.S. attorney, and let me be amendment. Lewinsky. We have no quarrel with the clear on this, the U.S. attorney and the Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I am process of justice. But we do have a assistants practice at the Federal advised that there may be some accom- quarrel with an independent counsel courts. They already are obligated to modation with respect to the limita- who leaks and leaks and leaks. These stand behind Federal guidelines in tion on time if it is limited to the amendments will make it better for all terms of their disciplinary behavior, amendment offered by the gentleman Americans. For that reason I think their ethical conduct as established by from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS), the dis- that we should support the perfecting the Attorney General of the United tinguished ranking member of the amendment and support the Martha- States. But what you do in this bill, Committee on the Judiciary. McDade amendment. and I believe in overreaction fashion, is The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would ea- PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY make those U.S. attorneys, those Fed- gerly await that. Mr. MCDADE. Parliamentary in- eral prosecutors, submit to various Mr. MCDADE. Am I accurate in that? quiry, Mr. Chairman. State regulations on their conduct. I understand that is acceptable. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will Let us take, for example, the Okla- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Could the gen- state it. homa situation. Because so many tleman outline his proposal? Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, we have times, the Federal prosecutor, not the Mr. MCDADE. Yes. May I say to my been on the amendment for quite some State prosecutor like my colleague friend from West Virginia that my un- time. I was going to see at 5:05 if we from Massachusetts was, but the Fed- derstanding is that if we limit the limi- could get some kind of agreement on a eral prosecutors that we talk about in tation on time, if we can get one, to time limit. Members have social en- this bill work in multistate litigation, the Conyers amendment, that that is gagements, most of them, beginning pornography, interstate theft of auto- an acceptable proposal to be made. And about 6 o’clock. I do not think we mobiles, drug cases, where you are if that is the case, I would inquire how would take much time on the next working with folks all over the coun- many speakers there are that remain amendment. I wanted to see if it was try. In Oklahoma City, you had a trag- that would like to be heard on the Con- possible to get an agreement on time ic bombing, an instance where in that yers amendment. on the Conyers amendment and any investigation they gathered evidence Mr. MOLLOHAN. We have several. amendment thereto. in Michigan and in New York and other Does the gentleman have a time pro- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, we States and brought that together in posal? are not in a position to make any Oklahoma City for coordination. They Mr. MCDADE. My understanding on agreements on time at this time. would have had to track every piece of this side is that we have but two, each Mr. BRYANT. Mr. Chairman, I move evidence in that case, where it came five minutes. I would suggest 20 min- to strike the requisite number of from, to ensure that it did not violate utes, 10 per side, and then vote on the words. that particular State ethics and dis- Conyers amendment. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to ciplinary law. That is an impossible PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY this amendment and in further support burden for prosecutors who prosecute Mr. MOLLOHAN. Parliamentary in- of the underlying amendment that I co- multistate litigation to have to do. quiry, Mr. Chairman. sponsored in opposition to the provi- Let us take another State, I believe, The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will sion in the base bill which would un- I could be corrected, but I think Massa- state it. duly, in my opinion, hamper our pros- chusetts. In that State, if you arrest a Mr. MOLLOHAN. Can we limit time ecutors. low level drug dealer and you want to, on the Conyers amendment and not on I stand today to support our prosecu- as so often happens in drug cases, you the underlying amendment? tors. I guess I am somewhat surprised start at the bottom and work your way The CHAIRMAN. Yes, that would be as I sit and listen to all the bashing up to the kingpin. If you arrest a low the understanding of the chair. that is going on about our prosecutors, level drug dealer in that State, the Mr. MCDADE. May I say to my our Federal prosecutors, the people kingpin can hire a lawyer for that low friend, I find that there are some oth- who are presidentially appointed and level drug dealer and as a prosecutor, ers on my side who also wish to speak confirmed by the Senate who serve in you cannot talk to that low level drug on the Conyers amendment. Four mem- our 93 positions as U.S. attorneys as dealer without that lawyer being bers, five minutes apiece is 20, and you well as our assistant U.S. attorneys, present who is actually hired by the have two. Twenty and 20. Is that ac- the people who prosecute day in and kingpin. You know what plays out in ceptable to the gentleman? day out throughout this country the that situation. If that person talks to b people that need to be prosecuted, not you, he may well be dead the next day. 1715 in a perfect way and as we hear anec- Those are examples of how in reality May I inquire of the gentleman, how dotal stories of perhaps cases that this bill will play out. It will ham- about 15 and 15 per side? I am advised should not have been prosecuted, and I string Federal prosecutors in a very in- that Members over here do not intend August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7239 to take the full time, that they can get gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. practicing lawyers. The Conyers their remarks in the RECORD, and then MCDADE). amendment says that this includes spe- the amendment would be ripe. Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 cial counsel as well, not just the people Mr. MOLLOHAN. I think we can minutes to the distinguished gen- who are currently employed by the De- agree to that on the Conyers amend- tleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE), the partment of Justice, and that makes ment, 15 on each side. chairman of the Committee on the Ju- all the sense in the world. Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I ask diciary. Limited government is the pre- unanimous consent the debate on the (Mr. HYDE asked and was given per- requisite for liberty and justice. That Conyers amendment and the amend- mission to revise and extend his re- is what we are talking about today, ments thereto cease in 30 minutes, marks.) limiting government power to what is equally divided. Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I think the a reasonable power to maintain order The CHAIRMAN. And all amend- Conyers amendment is inappropriate, in our society. ments thereto? Equally divided? but I do not disagree with the underly- Well, however, over the last three Mr. MCDADE. Yes, Mr. Chairman. ing thought, which is that independent decades, because of the fear of crime Is there objection to the request of counsels ought to be accountable. we have ended up granting enormous the gentleman from Pennsylvania? I go back to the Iran-Contra days power with very few checks and bal- PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY when Elliot Abrams was destroyed by ances to prosecutors. We have just been Mr. MOLLOHAN. Parliamentary in- an independent counsel, I thought very expanding their power, and yours truly quiry, Mr. Chairman. unjustly, when Caspar Weinberger was is just as guilty as anybody else out of The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will indicted three days before an election, fear of crime to give prosecutors power state his parliamentary inquiry. and there is just no accountability; so without having any checks and bal- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Are there any there ought to be. This is not the time ances. Now we are surprised to see that amendments to the Conyers amend- to do it. The time to do it is when we big government with lots of power, peo- ment in order? reauthorize the bill next year. ple in that government tend to abuse The CHAIRMAN. In theory there In 1994, when we reauthorized the that power. would be, but if the request is granted, independent counsel, I had some sug- Our Founding Fathers would not be of course they would be debatable with- gestions for accountability. They were surprised at that. The fact is every time we expand power we have to put in that time. shot down by the chairman of the Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, we House Committee on the Judiciary checks in place or there will be abuses would not want to make the agreement then, they were shot down by the of power. For far too many times we have seen out-of-control prosecutors if it were to include time limit on any chairman of the Senate Judiciary Com- who now have all this more power to potential amendments on the Conyers mittee. They were perfectly happy with attack the bad guys, not seeking truth amendment. the language of the bill as it then ex- or not trying to protect the innocent The CHAIRMAN. That is the under- isted. but instead engaging themselves in standing of the Chair. Now, of course, experience has self-aggrandizing, targeted attacks, Mr. MOLLOHAN. That we would not changed their mind. So I agree, but often pushing relentlessly for some have any amendments on the Conyers never forget the ultimate discipline is kind of prosecutorial victory regardless amendment that would become a part with the Attorney General. She can of the cost and, at times, regardless of of the time agreement? dismiss the independent counsel, and if the cost and, at times, regardless of the The CHAIRMAN. The request would he is half as bad as people say, I wonder actual guilt or innocence of the target. only impact the Conyers amendment why she has not dismissed him. But I and other supporters of the itself. that is a question for another day. McDade-Murtha provision, and we are Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I renew But any lesser sanction would erode advocates of law and order, take this my unanimous-consent request. the independence of the independent stand today to protect freedom and lib- The CHAIRMAN. Would the gen- counsel, and we must keep the inde- erty threatened by prosecutors who are tleman restate his unanimous-consent pendent counsel independent. not being held to the same standards as request? So I think the gentleman’s amend- other people in the legal profession. Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I ask ment is mis-timed, overshoots the The gentleman from Indiana (Mr. that all debate on the Conyers amend- mark and ought to be defeated. BUYER) answered these charges, that ment cease in 30 minutes, equally di- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman I yield there is going to be confusion, that we vided on each side, that I control time such time as she may consume to the have different standards at the local here and the gentleman from Michigan distinguished gentlewoman from Cali- level. The fact is that we expect our control the time on that side. fornia (Ms. PELOSI). prosecutors to be at the highest level The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection (Ms. PELOSI asked and was given because we are protecting the rights of to the request of the gentleman from permission to revise and extend her re- our citizens, the freedom of the people Pennsylvania? marks.) of the United States of America. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Reserving the Ms. PELOSI. Mr. Chairman, I espe- Far too often we have seen cases like right to object, Mr. Chairman, it ap- cially thank the gentleman from the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. pears to me that the request has two Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) for his leader- MCDADE) where prosecutors are out of people controlling time that are both ship in bringing this amendment to the control and politically motivated. in favor of the Conyers amendment. I floor, which I wholeheartedly support They go out and destroy public offi- would like to claim time in opposition. and consider a breath of fresh air. I cials and public people. But what about Mr. Chairman, I trust the gentleman also rise in support of the underlying the little guys? The little guys who from Pennsylvania to control it. I just McDade-Murtha bill. have no money to defend themselves would like to make sure that it is con- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield and are faced by these same abusive trolled. 3 minutes to the distinguished gen- prosecutors? Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my res- tleman from California (Mr. ROHR- No, putting down a code of conduct, ervation of objection. ABACHER). if my colleagues will, a standard of eth- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Chairman, ics for the prosecutors, is something to the request of the gentleman from I rise in strong support of the Conyers good. It is totally consistent with free- Pennsylvania? amendment as well as in opposition to dom in our country, with what our There was no objection. the Hutchinson amendment, which Founding Fathers wanted, with the The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, would then strike the McDade-Murtha concepts of limited government. Why the unanimous-consent request is provision of this bill. In essence, should prosecutors be exempt from the granted whereby debate will cease in 30 McDade-Murtha codifies the long-rec- ethics standards that the rest of us minutes, 15 minutes controlled by the ognized, but recently-ignored prin- have? gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CON- ciples that U.S. Attorneys must abide Vote yes on the Conyers amendment YERS) and 15 minutes controlled by the by the same rules of ethics as all other to make sure all of the people who are H7240 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 involved in prosecution in our country Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I thank erything because an individual defend- have these standards and no on Hutch- the gentleman from Michigan for yield- ant who has been through an enormous inson. ing this time to me. Federal criminal trial still suffers con- Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 I listened with great interest to the sequences. minutes to the distinguished gen- comments of the very distinguished But I believe that we took a big step tleman from Alabama (Mr. CALLAHAN). gentleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE), in this Congress in remedying and cur- (Mr. CALLAHAN asked and was the chairman of our Committee on the tailing and striking a better balance, given permission to revise and extend Judiciary, and I would say every argu- and that was when we passed and it his remarks.) ment he gave against the Conyers was signed into law the provision that Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I am amendment applies just as forcefully in said that if there is a frivolous prosecu- not a lawyer, and I do not apologize for support of the Hutchinson amendment tion, then the acquitted defendant can that, I am just not. But I do have a and for striking the underlying provi- recover attorney’s fees from the gov- legal question that I would like for sion, and that is going through the reg- ernment. some of the legalese Members who are ular order either in the context of an I think we need to have time for that so educated in the law to inform me. independent counsel law or in the con- to work. I think it strikes a better bal- The Mobile Press Register, my home- text of a Justice Department reauthor- ance. I think that prosecutors were town newspaper, recently published a ization we could look at this proposal, concerned about that, that that is a story where it says a former Internal look at the question of improper pros- chilling effect. Well, I hope it is a re- Revenue informant in a Mobile diesel ecutorial tactics and fashion an appro- medial effect. I hope that it strikes a fraud case claims the IRS paid him to priate remedy. better balance. So I am very pleased skip town during the May trial where But if there is going to be the with that. his testimony could have helped the de- McDade-Murtha language in this bill, But I do want to say also that a num- fense. ber of Members have said, why in the When we questioned, or when the then I cannot think of a reason in the world should we have Federal prosecu- press questioned, the IRS and the De- world why those same restrictions tors who should be exempt from the fense Department as to whether or not should not apply to staff and to an State ethics law? And that is just not it took place, they admitted that they independent counsel or to the inde- pendent counsel himself. the case that we have presently. gave the man $2,500 to leave town dur- Presently, as a Federal prosecutor, ing the trial so he could not testify Independent counsel working in a State, if the Justice Department law- every Federal prosecutor has to be li- against the defense or for the defense. censed to practice law, are subject to The FBI then said, well, this guy is a yer should be complying with the local the state licensure laws of their state, liar and that he cannot be trusted. bar rules, then the independent counsel whether it is Virginia, whether it is Ar- Well, if he is a liar and he cannot be lawyer should be complying with the kansas. They have to abide by those trusted, why did they give him $2,500? local bar rules. If improper overzealous Does the Federal Government have prosecution tactics, the kinds of sto- ethics laws. That is the current law. the authority, any of the legalese ries that the gentleman from Alabama What the present proposal is, wheth- Members can tell me, to pay a defense (Mr. CALLAHAN) told us about, are er it is the independent counsel under witness to leave town if he agrees not going on, then an independent review the Conyers amendment or whether it to be there during the trial and testify, board should be reviewing those tactics is the underlying bill, it would bring and, if that is the case, does the under- as well as the tactics of Justice Depart- all Federal prosecutors subject not to lying amendment offered by the gen- ment lawyers. the ethics laws of their State, but to tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. I have some concerns about the base every State in which they engage in their duties, and that is the point that MCDADE) and the gentleman from proposal, and I will speak to that when my good friend the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. MURTHA), does it the Hutchinson amendment comes up, help correct a situation taking place but we should support the Conyers Tennessee (Mr. BRYANT) was making. In the multistate investigations we like that in the future? amendment and then treat everybody Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, will the in the similar situation the same way. have, when you are traveling down to gentleman yield? Mr. Chairman, I urge an aye vote on Florida to interview a witness, when Mr. CALLAHAN. I yield to the gen- the Conyers amendment. you are going to Louisiana, when you tleman from Illinois. Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 6 have multistates involved, you have Mr. HYDE. The answer is absolutely minutes to the gentleman from Arkan- conflicting laws with different States. not. That is obstruction of justice and sas (Mr. HUTCHINSON), a distinguished My good friend from Massachusetts has was a crime. Member. some very stringent bar rules that are in conflict with the ethics laws in our Mr. CALLAHAN. Then in the gentle- b 1730 man’s opinion, as a prosecutor and as a State and hamstring what a prosecutor man learned in the law, should the Jus- Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I might be trying to do and what could tice Department in that district indict thank the distinguished gentleman be perceived as unfair. the IRS individual who gave him this from Pennsylvania (Mr. MCDADE) for In addition to the reviews of the money? the courtesies that he has extended to State ethics laws, you presently have Mr. HYDE. If the version that the me. He has been in this body some time the Office of Professional Responsibil- gentleman read is accurate, there is a longer than I have, and he has taught ity. You have the inspector general lot of work for the Justice Department me a few things. I have the utmost re- that will have review over these Fed- to do right down there where that hap- gard and high respect for the gen- eral prosecutors, in addition to the pened. tleman. Federal courts. Mr. CALLAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I as- There has been some mention today But let me say in reference to the sume everything we read in the news- about unfairness in prosecution, and I Conyers amendment on the independ- paper is factual, but giving the benefit do not dispute that it happens, that it ent counsel, the essence of the Conyers of the doubt that it might not be fac- has happened in this body. The gen- amendment brings the independent tual, I think that the investigator, the tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. counsel under the Misconduct Review defense attorney in Mobile, who inci- MCDADE) has referred to a case; others Board of title VIII. The Misconduct Re- dentally has called me because Janet have. view Board is, first of all, a board com- Reno told him to and asked me to vote I have made mention of the fact I am posed of three members. Those three against the underlying bill, which I in- a former Federal prosecutor, and that members are appointed by the Presi- tend to do anyway. is true. I was a prosecutor in the mid- dent of the United States. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 80’s, but after I left that, I became a de- The whole idea of the independent 2 minutes to the gentleman from Cali- fense attorney. So I have sat in that counsel law, and I agree with the gen- fornia (Mr. BERMAN), a distinguished courtroom and I have heard a jury tleman from Illinois (Chairman HYDE) member of the Committee on the Judi- come back with an acquittal, and I re- that we need to reevaluate this in the ciary. alized an acquittal does not remedy ev- reauthorization next year, but do we August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7241 want to bring somebody who is sup- the question, do those in law enforce- However, it is also clearly just as im- posed to be independent of the adminis- ment have greater resources, or those portant that every employee of the tration under the review of the Mis- in the drug business? And whether it is Justice Department ought to be cov- conduct Review Board of three people the DEA or those in the cartels, they ered by this language, without excep- appointed by the President? It makes say the other side have more weapons. tion. There should be no exception be- no sense. What we are trying to do by this pro- cause every employee of the Justice The Misconduct Review Board, if posal in this bill is to give more weap- Department has this prosecutorial there is any complaint made by any ons and more tools to those on the power, the right, the ability to deprive citizen, can subpoena evidence, can other side. We need to strengthen law Americans of life, liberty and property. subpoena records, can subpoena wit- enforcement, not strengthen the drug Therefore, we need this perfecting nesses and bring them before them cartels. amendment to make more powerful, with a public show that would com- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I am more straightforward, more direct the promise confidential informants, pleased to yield 5 minutes to the gen- underlying principles of the McDade whether it is a drug case or something tleman from New York (Mr. HINCHEY). language. the independent counsel is doing. So Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. the Misconduct Review Board is a bu- yield? Chairman, will the gentleman yield? reaucracy that is duplicative of what Mr. HINCHEY. I yield to the gen- Mr. HINCHEY. I yield to the gentle- we have now. It is not needed; it takes tleman from Michigan. woman from Texas. us in the wrong direction. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, the Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. The gentleman from California (Mr. gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCH- Chairman, I want to thank the gen- COX) says we have 10 rules that ought INSON) is a great member of the Com- tleman both for his clarification and to be obeyed by Federal prosecutors. mittee on the Judiciary and he is a his passion. I think we would be doing We already have ethical rules for our great lawyer and was a good prosecu- a great disservice to this debate if we Federal prosecutors and State prosecu- tor, a good defense man, but what he did not clarify that this is not a point- tors. But those 10 rules have to be in- needs to understand is that we are not ed and singular attack on anyone. It is terpreted by a Misconduct Review revising or dealing with the independ- simply to provide the cover of ethics Board. So when it says you cannot ent counsel statute. That comes up and of certain legal standards that all bring charges without probable cause, next year, and, brother, we have plenty lawyers across the Nation have to that is what a grand jury determines. to say about that. abide by to all lawyers that are under Now we are going to have a Mis- All we are doing now is making the the Constitution and governing laws of conduct Review Board determine very elementary, simple, nonlegal as- the United States of America. whether there is probable cause or not. sertion that the independent counsel is What I hear the gentleman saying is That is second guessing, that is an im- an employee of the U.S. Department of ethics for you, ethics for me, ethics for possible burden put on prosecutors, and Justice and is subject to the same everyone, and that includes, as the it is a chilling effect. I believe we rules, 6(e) and everything else, that Conyers amendment has so aptly indi- should have a higher standard, but that U.S. Attorneys are. That. Nothing cated, an independent counsel that is is a higher standard that is imposed by more. an employee of the Department of Jus- our State ethics laws, that is applied Mr. HINCHEY. Mr. Chairman, re- tice, so that no one’s rights are vio- by the present system. claiming my time, I thank the gen- lated. Let me end with two points: First of tleman for making that point. It seems I ask the gentleman, are we simply all is a letter that was signed by Demo- to me that in the context of this de- engaging in a discussion of fairness, crat and Republican former Attorneys bate, which is an extraordinarily im- that ethics is the creed, if you will, the General. They said in their letter in op- portant one, that there is one basic oath, if you will, the guiding force that position to the proposal that the de- point that we need to focus on, and should guide all of us as we relate to partment’s policy already requires its that is a very simple one: The underly- those Americans who come under the attorneys comply with the ethical ing principles of this Republic, the system of justice? rules of the States in which they are li- founding and sustaining principle, is Mr. HINCHEY. Mr. Chairman, re- censed and practice. So it is already that government draws its just author- claiming my time, I would say abso- the rule. Across the board they have ity from the consent of the governed. lutely right. Every citizen of this Re- opposition to this. We all know that. We all learned that public has the right to expect ethical Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Chairman, in grammar school. behavior from every other citizen, but will the gentleman yield? You cannot have the consent of the particularly every citizen of this Re- Mr. HUTCHINSON. I yield to the gen- governed unless you have their con- public has the right to expect ethical tleman from California. fidence. The governed cannot give their behavior from everyone who is placed Mr. ROHRABACHER. Does the gen- consent unless they have confidence in in a position of prosecutorial respon- tleman believe if a prosecutor, for ex- that which they are giving consent to. sibility. Nowhere else in the system of ample, encourages a witness to commit Nowhere in the government is that government is the requirement to ad- perjury or breaks the law in some more stringently important than with here to a strict, clear specified code of other way, that that prosecutor should regard to the activities of the Depart- ethics more important than those who himself or herself be prosecuted for ment of Justice. And the reason for have been entrusted with prosecutorial violating the law for doing something that is obvious, because the Depart- responsibilities. like that? ment of Justice has extraordinary Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, will Mr. HUTCHINSON. Reclaiming my power over individual Americans, over the gentleman yield? time, absolutely. That is obstruction of life, liberty and property of every sin- Mr. HINCHEY. I yield to the gen- justice. gle citizen of every State. tleman from Massachusetts. Mr. ROHRABACHER. How many Therefore, particularly the Depart- Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I prosecutors have been prosecuted? Al- ment of Justice must be held under think it is important, given the state- most none, is that right? Instead, like strict constraint. Nowhere else in the ments by my friend from Arkansas, in the case of the gentleman from government is it as important as in the whom I have great respect for, that if Pennsylvania (Mr. MCDADE), they get Department of Justice. That is why the somehow you support McDade and promotions. McDade language in the Commerce- Murtha you are somehow assisting or Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, re- Justice bill is so important, and we abetting drug cartels in the United claiming my time, under the present owe the gentlemen a debt of gratitude, States. That simply is not the case. situation, that is misconduct that is the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. State prosecutors historically have subject to prosecution as well as ethi- MCDADE) and the gentleman from conducted investigations that are cal investigation. When I talk to peo- Pennsylvania (Mr. MURTHA), for bring- multistate in nature, whether it be or- ple who are in hearings that are in- ing this language to us in the context ganized crime, whether it be drug traf- volved with the drug cartel, I ask them of this bill. ficking, whether it be white collar H7242 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 crime. They adjust. As the gentleman independent counsel to exercise inde- (Mr. MCDADE asked and was given from Arkansas indicated, Massachu- pendence. It would do that, as well as permission to revise and extend his re- setts has a very stringent standard in impede, very clearly, the investigation marks.) terms of prosecutorial ethics, but it by being able to come forward at any Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, let me has not caused a problem. point and make objections to unfair say to my colleagues, I had not in- It is reminiscent of when the Warren prosecutions in very vague, very broad tended to speak on this aspect of the Court issued the landmark cases in terms, that would draw to a halt that bill, but in view of the comments that Mapp and Miranda. It was going to im- independent investigation while this were made a few moments ago, I am pede and be the end in terms of law en- disciplinary action against the inde- compelled to. forcement. I dare say now we have bet- pendent prosecutor would have to be Under the current system that we ter and more professional law enforce- investigated. heard described by my colleagues, the ment that is more ethical than ever be- I would point out to my colleagues gentlemen from Tennessee and from fore. on both sides that the Attorney Gen- Arkansas, there is a remedy for a citi- Mr. McDADE. Mr. Chairman, I am eral, Janet Reno, opposes this bill in zen, once convicted. They can appeal to delighted to yield 1 minute to the able total, and states, in regard to the dis- another court, a higher court. They gentleman from California (Mr. ruptions that would occur in the U.S. can make a recommendation or an ar- HUNTER). Attorney General’s office, as well as, gument at OPM, the Office of Profes- (Mr. HUNTER asked and was given we would speculate, in the independent sional Responsibility in the Depart- permission to speak out of order and to prosecutor’s office, that that would ment of Justice, after they have been revise and extend his remarks.) devastate their ability to do the job. convicted; lives ruined, bankrupt. If She says, for example, and this is HONORABLE RANDY ‘‘DUKE’’ CUNNINGHAM DOING they can prove something, they might Janet Reno talking, ‘‘For example, a WELL FOLLOWING SURGERY get a reversal of their case. Mr. HUNTER. Mr. Chairman, I wish grand jury target could allege the pros- Let me be specific. In the case of to announce to my colleagues that our ecutor was ‘bringing discredit on the United States versus Taylor about a Department.’ ’’ That is an allegation good friend, our Top Gun ‘‘DUKE’’ year ago, the Department of Justice that could stop the prosecution, they CUNNINGHAM, who underwent surgery twisted the testimony of an individual today, has come through that surgery are bringing discredit on the depart- and convicted him on perjurous testi- ment. ‘‘The Attorney General would successfully. He is doing great. He has mony. If we read the case, we will read then be required to complete a prelimi- already made one attempt to sneak that the judge that tried it found the nary investigation within thirty days.’’ past a corpsman and get back to work, employees of the Department guilty of They have to stop and do this within 30 but they apprehended him and he is obstruction of justice. What a charge, days. ‘‘The prosecutor would be forced back in bed to rest for a little bit. He corrupting the system that they are to devote his or her attention to the just wishes all of you well. are supposed to be defending. misconduct claim rather than . . .’’ It would be great, if anybody would What did the Office of Professional the underlying criminal investigation. like, we would love to have you come It is just amazing, if one sits down Responsibility do after the judge made to the Republican cloakroom, Demo- and thinks about, I believe, the unin- that finding? Mr. Chairman, they gave crats and Republicans, and sign the tended, very sincerely, consequences of the people who corrupted that system a get-well card that we put together for this bill in terms of how it will disrupt 5-day suspension from their jobs, a 5- DUKE. He is doing well and he is going our very good prosecutors and their ef- day suspension for corrupting the sys- to be back shortly. fort to stand in that gap between the tem of justice in this country. No bet- Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 law-abiding citizens of America and ter example exists as to why we need to minutes to the gentleman from Ten- the criminals of America. empower a citizen to have the right to nessee (Mr. BRYANT). I point out that there are mistakes have his case heard in front of the con- b 1745 made. In those cases, the system does viction and away from the OPM by an work. There is a system out there for independent body. Mr. BRYANT. Mr. Chairman, under the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- the circumstances, I think the gen- JOE MCDADE). It must work. I know he ance of my time. tleman has been extremely gracious. would quarrel with that, but it should The CHAIRMAN. The question is on I certainly I want to, I am sure, work. the amendment offered by the gen- speak for my colleagues who oppose I urge Members to oppose the Con- tleman from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS). this bill, this portion of the bill, that yers amendment. The question was taken; and the we have obviously nothing personal Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield Chairman announced that the ayes ap- against the gentleman and his situa- myself such time as I may consume. peared to have it. tion. It is just that we have, we believe, Mr. Chairman, I want to thank all RECORDED VOTE legitimate differences in this particu- the Members on both sides of the aisle lar bill. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I for a very constructive debate. I think demand a recorded vote. Mr. Chairman, I would stand up to- this is very important, and I appreciate night and argue against the issue at A recorded vote was ordered. the fair discussion under which this The vote was taken by electronic de- hand, and that is, the amendment of- amendment has been considered. fered by the gentleman from Michigan vice, and there were—ayes 249, noes 182, I would point out to the last speaker, not voting 3, as follows: (Mr. CONYERS), the ranking member of an able member on the Committee on [Roll No. 396] the Committee on the Judiciary, which the Judiciary, the gentleman from AYES—249 would bring into this bill the independ- Tennessee (Mr. BRYANT), that he is ar- ent counsel. guing the underlying bill, but the vote Abercrombie Borski Cox As my colleague, the gentleman from Ackerman Boswell Coyne that is now coming up is merely wheth- Allen Boucher Cramer Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON) has so well er or not independent counsel are in- Andrews Boyd Cummings pointed out, it is almost ludicrous cluded in the provisions that apply to Bachus Brady (PA) Danner when we envision the aspects of this U.S. attorneys. Baesler Brown (CA) Davis (IL) bill as it might be applicable to the Baldacci Brown (FL) Deal If we do not do that we have made an Barcia Brown (OH) DeFazio special prosecutor, especially when we incredibly large error, and I think it Barrett (WI) Campbell DeGette consider the Conduct Review Board, was inadvertent when this bill was Becerra Capps Delahunt which is made up of three members ap- drafted sometime ago. I am pleased Bentsen Cardin DeLauro Berman Carson Deutsch pointed by the White House, and also that many of the authors of the bill are Berry Clayton Dicks members appointed in an advisory supporting this amendment. Bilbray Clement Dingell fashion by the Members of Congress. I urge its support, Mr. Chairman, and Bishop Clyburn Dixon It certainly would thwart not only Blagojevich Collins Doggett I yield back the balance of my time. Blumenauer Condit Dooley any color of independence, but any Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I yield Boehlert Conyers Doyle independence, or any ability of the myself such time as I may consume. Bonior Costello Dreier August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7243 Duncan Klug Poshard Lewis (CA) Pitts Smith (TX) but postponed if a recorded vote is re- Edwards Kucinich Price (NC) Lewis (KY) Pombo Smith, Linda quested, to a later time. Engel LaFalce Pryce (OH) Livingston Portman Snowbarger English LaHood Rahall Lucas Quinn Solomon And then I would hope that I would Eshoo Lampson Ramstad Maloney (CT) Radanovich Souder be able to discuss with the gentleman Etheridge Lantos Rangel Manzullo Redmond Spence from West Virginia (Mr. MOLLOHAN) Evans Leach Reyes McCollum Regula Stearns and others limitations on the other Farr Lee Rivers McCrery Riggs Stump Fattah Levin Rodriguez McDade Riley Sununu amendments that are attached to the Fazio Lewis (GA) Rohrabacher McIntosh Roemer Talent bill. Filner Linder Ros-Lehtinen McKeon Rogan Tauzin The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection Forbes Lipinski Rothman Metcalf Rogers Taylor (NC) to the request of the gentleman from Ford LoBiondo Roybal-Allard Mica Roukema Thomas Fox Lofgren Royce Miller (FL) Ryun Thornberry Kentucky? Frank (MA) Lowey Rush Moran (KS) Salmon Thune Mr. MOLLOHAN. Reserving the right Franks (NJ) Luther Sabo Morella Sanford Tiahrt to object, Mr. Chairman, just to clarify Frost Maloney (NY) Sanchez Myrick Saxton Wamp with the chairman that he is proposing Furse Manton Sanders Nethercutt Scarborough Watkins Gallegly Markey Sandlin Neumann Schaefer, Dan Watts (OK) that we do a unanimous consent re- Gejdenson Martinez Sawyer Ney Schaffer, Bob Weldon (FL) quest on the Hutchinson amendment Gephardt Mascara Schumer Northup Sensenbrenner Weldon (PA) now; roll that vote until after 8 p.m., Gillmor Matsui Scott Norwood Sessions Weller Gilman McCarthy (MO) Serrano Oxley Shadegg White giving Members a chance to go to this Goode McCarthy (NY) Sherman Packard Shaw Whitfield event; and then, in the meantime, do a Goodlatte McDermott Shuster Parker Shays Wilson unanimous consent with regard to as Gordon McGovern Sisisky Paxon Shimkus Wolf many other amendments as we can, Green McHale Skaggs Pease Skeen Young (AK) Gutierrez McHugh Skelton Petri Smith (MI) Young (FL) and I know we have some concern Gutknecht McInnis Slaughter Pickering Smith (OR) about maybe one amendment on our Hall (OH) McIntyre Smith (NJ) NOT VOTING—3 side maybe not being included in that; Hall (TX) McKinney Smith, Adam and roll all those votes likewise until Harman McNulty Snyder Clay Cunningham Gonzalez Hastings (FL) Meehan Spratt after 8 p.m. and then consider all votes. Hefley Meek (FL) Stabenow b 1811 So Members could actually leave right Stark Hefner Meeks (NY) Messrs. DAVIS of Florida, BAKER, now and not be concerned about votes Hill Menendez Stenholm until after 8 p.m. Hilliard Millender- Stokes WAMP, BURTON of Indiana, WELDON Hinchey McDonald Strickland of Pennsylvania, and LAZIO of New Mr. ROGERS. That is correct. Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I Hinojosa Miller (CA) Stupak York changed their vote from ‘‘aye’’ to Holden Minge Tanner withdraw my reservation of objection. Hooley Mink Tauscher ‘‘no.’’ Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Chairman, Houghton Moakley Taylor (MS) Messrs. RAMSTAD, FRANKS of New reserving the right to object. We have Hoyer Mollohan Thompson Jersey, KASICH, GALLEGLY, FOX of Jackson (IL) Moran (VA) Thurman a lot of Members right here, right now. Jackson-Lee Murtha Tierney Pennsylvania, PORTER, and UPTON We have already debated this issue, it (TX) Nadler Torres changed their vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ is in everybody’s mind, and I do not see Jefferson Neal Towns So the perfecting amendment was any reason why we should not vote on John Nussle Traficant agreed to. Johnson (WI) Oberstar Turner this and then go forward with the rest Johnson, E.B. Obey Upton The result of the vote was announced of the evening with time with our fami- Kanjorski Olver Velazquez as above recorded. lies. We have just debated this, we are Kaptur Ortiz Vento The CHAIRMAN. Is there further dis- Kasich Owens Visclosky right here, let us vote on it now. Kelly Pallone Walsh cussion on the amendment offered by Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, there Kennedy (MA) Pappas Waters the gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. are Members who wish the 5-minute Watt (NC) Kennedy (RI) Pascrell HUTCHINSON)? discussion time. I would again request Kennelly Pastor Waxman Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I move Kildee Paul Wexler unanimous consent for 5 minutes per Kilpatrick Payne Weygand to strike the requisite number of side, after which we vote, and then roll Kim Pelosi Wicker words. the vote until after 8 p.m. Kind (WI) Peterson (MN) Wise For the purpose of trying to inform King (NY) Peterson (PA) Woolsey The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection Kingston Pickett Wynn the Members of the evening’s schedule to the request of the gentleman from Kleczka Pomeroy Yates so they may plan their activities ac- Kentucky? Klink Porter cordingly, I am hoping that in a few Mr. MOLLOHAN. Reserving the right minutes we can get a unanimous con- NOES—182 to object, Mr. Chairman. I have been sent request to end the debate on the advised on my side that we would prob- Aderholt Chenoweth Goodling Hutchinson amendment with 5 minutes Archer Christensen Goss ably agree with that proposal and do Armey Coble Graham per side and then a vote on that not have any requests for time, at least Baker Coburn Granger amendment, which we would request be if it were agreed upon by the other Ballenger Combest Greenwood rolled until a later time so that Mem- side. Barr Cook Hamilton Barrett (NE) Cooksey Hansen bers would be able to attend the The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection Bartlett Crane Hastert evening activities during the dinner to the request of the gentleman from Barton Crapo Hastings (WA) hour. Kentucky? Bass Cubin Hayworth I would hope in due course of time, Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I sim- Bateman Davis (FL) Herger Bereuter Davis (VA) Hilleary which we are now working with the ply want to state on behalf of my col- Bilirakis DeLay Hobson gentleman from West Virginia (Mr. league, the gentleman from Pennsyl- Bliley Diaz-Balart Hoekstra MOLLOHAN) and others on, to obtain a vania (Mr. MURTHA), and myself, who Blunt Dickey Horn worked this originally, and the 200 of Boehner Doolittle Hostettler time limit on all remaining amend- Bonilla Dunn Hulshof ments, in which case votes could be our colleagues who have cosponsored Bono Ehlers Hunter postponed until around 8:00 at the ear- this bill, that we are ready to vote Brady (TX) Ehrlich Hutchinson liest and give Members a chance to be right now. It has been debated and I Bryant Emerson Hyde Bunning Ensign Inglis with their families during the dinner think we ought to vote. Burr Everett Istook hour. The CHAIRMAN. Is there any objec- Burton Ewing Jenkins tion to the request of the gentleman b Buyer Fawell Johnson (CT) 1815 from Kentucky? Callahan Foley Johnson, Sam Calvert Fossella Jones With that in mind, I would propose a Hearing no objection, the unanimous Camp Fowler Knollenberg unanimous consent request that all de- consent request is granted. The gen- Canady Frelinghuysen Kolbe bate on the Hutchinson amendment be tleman from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCH- Cannon Ganske Largent concluded in 10 minutes, 5 minutes per INSON) and the gentleman from Penn- Castle Gekas Latham Chabot Gibbons LaTourette side, after which the vote would be sylvania (Mr. MCDADE) will each con- Chambliss Gilchrest Lazio taken on the Hutchinson amendment, trol 5 minutes. H7244 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I Let us not throw the baby out with than anybody else. They have a tre- yield myself such time as I may con- the bath water. If there have been mendous power, the prosecutors in this sume to simply say that the amend- abuses, then let us address those par- country, to withhold the liberty of in- ment that is before this body, the ticular abuses, but not change and take dividual citizens. We want to make Hutchinson-Barr-Bryant amendment, away the ability of Federal prosecutors sure that prosecution is done ethically, would delete title VIII of the appro- to conduct multi-State investigations. and I would ask all of the Members of priations bill, which is called the Citi- I urge the adoption of the amend- the House to vote against the Hutch- zen Protection Act. ment. inson amendment. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. minutes to the gentleman from Penn- yield 1 minute to the gentleman from BARR). sylvania (Mr. MURTHA), the coauthor of Tennessee (Mr. BRYANT). PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY the bill. Mr. BRYANT. Mr. Chairman, it is a Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, Mem- Mr. MURTHA. Mr. Chairman, if the difficult task to stand up here and fol- bers are asking about whether or not Members think I am excited about this, low the fine gentleman from Pennsyl- we will postpone this vote. The answer they are right. If they think I am sin- vania (Mr. MURTHA) and the gentleman is we will recommend the vote be post- cere and focused on this issue, I am. from Pennsylvania (Mr. MCDADE), and poned until at least 8 p.m. I sat beside the gentleman from I can in no way empathize with what The CHAIRMAN. The Chair has that Pennsylvania for 8 years, 8 years while he has gone through because I have not discretion when the request for a re- he was under persecution by the Jus- done that. corded vote is made we will take that tice Department: 6 years investigation, The three former U.S. attorneys in under advisement. 2 years intimidation, under indictment. this body have stood up and told my Mr. BARR of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, I watched the gentleman decline phys- colleagues, as I tell you today, being as with most pieces of legislation, it is ically, mentally and emotionally from one of those, let us not overreact. As as important to raise what a proposal the strain of the Justice Department. the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. does not do as it is what it does do, and We were able to raise $1 million to MURTHA) said, the United States attor- I urge all of my colleagues to listen defend the gentleman from Pennsyl- neys have tremendous power. very carefully to these final minutes of vania. The Justice Department system We, as Members of Congress, have debate. leaked information that was erroneous, tremendous power beyond that and let This is a very emotional issue be- leaked continually, did everything that us do not abuse this situation. It was a cause people who are well-known to us could be unethical; charged him with terrible situation with the gentleman are in favor of it. But this bill should campaign contributions being bribes, from Pennsylvania (Mr. MCDADE). I not go forward. This amendment that completely within the rules of the wish it could be corrected. It is not a we have should go forward, and the un- House; charged him with honoraria perfect situation, but the U.S. attor- derlying title VIII stricken, because it being illegal gratuities; tried to intimi- neys are under the ethics rules of their will do tremendous injustice to the fab- date the House of Representatives ric of how United States attorneys con- States. which furnishes the money for the Jus- Fortunately, they do many duct very sophisticated, very complex, tice Department. multistate prosecutions, and as the very far-reaching multi-state inves- Now, what chance would an individ- tigations. gentleman from Georgia (Mr. BARR) There is plenty of mechanisms al- ual have against the Justice Depart- said, these prosecutions will be lit- ready in place to address the occa- ment if they would go after one of the erally handcuffed if we pass this bill sional bad apple, if there is a prosecu- most prominent Members in the House and make them comply with every tor that practices misconduct. Not- of Representatives? A jury, which came local ethics disciplinary board proceed- withstanding that, if we have a prob- from an area that the public opinion ing which they go into, whether it is lem with a particular U.S. attorney, said 70 percent of the public in that Florida, Louisiana or wherever. then we should take action against area thought that all politicians were I know it is tough, but let us do the that U.S. attorney. We can do that crooks, he was acquitted in 3 hours by right thing and vote for this amend- under current law and procedures. If we a jury picked at random from that ment. do not like the standards set by an At- area. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, torney General, then we should take I feel strongly about this because it what is the time balance for each side? action against that Attorney General, would protect the individual citizen The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman but we should not throw out the abil- from prosecution by not every prosecu- from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON) has ity, as title VIII would do, of United tor; I have no question that most pros- 11⁄2 minutes remaining and the gen- States attorneys to conduct multi- ecutors are above board and most pros- tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. state investigations, such as RICO, ecutors abide by the ethics rules. What MCDADE) has 2 minutes remaining and public corruption, drug cases or fraud we are saying in this legislation, when the right to close as a member of the cases. we defeat the Hutchinson amendment, committee. If, in fact, the law in one particular is that they must abide by the ethics Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I State is different from the law in an- rules of the State involved. yield myself the balance of the time. other particular State, both involved The chief justices of the entire The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman in that multi-State investigation, ac- United States, fifty of them, all agree from Arkansas is recognized for 11⁄2 tion could be brought against that with us and say they ought to abide by minutes. United States attorney for doing some- the rules. They do not abide not only Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I thing that is perfectly legal under Fed- by their own ethics, they do not abide have a short amount of time but let me eral law and under the law of a State in by the ethics of the States they are just say that I do believe this is a law which they are operating just because practicing in, and we say a special citi- enforcement issue. You look at the it might happen that part of a case zens commission should do just exactly groups that are concerned about this, falls over into another State where that as they are doing for the IRS. that support the Hutchinson-Bryant- that sort of action, such as consulting So I would hope that the House would Barr amendment: The National Sher- with a defendant’s attorney, such as rise up and show the prosecutors who iffs Association have endorsed this; the conducting electronic eavesdropping, are out of control, not all of them, just Fraternal Order of Police; the FBI might be against the law in that one the ones out of control, that they need Agents Association. None of these are State. some sort of oversight and that this attorneys. Also, title VIII would allow an out- House will send a clear signal to the These are not attorneys. These are side panel, not composed of prosecu- rest of the country that we will not people who work with prosecutors who tors, to have full access to every bit of stand by citizens to be persecuted by a know what is needed in the war against the prosecutor’s case. That would be prosecution. drugs. The Federal Criminal Investiga- outrageous and it would, in effect, stop The gentleman from Massachusetts tors Association, the National District important prosecutions. (Mr. DELAHUNT) said it probably better Attorneys Association, who are state August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7245 prosecutors, the DEA Administrator We have had far too many cases where Mr. Chairman, very alarming information Tom Constantine, the Office of Drug overzealous prosecutors have presented high concerning alleged abuses and misconduct on Control Policy Director Barry McCaf- profile defendants just so that prosecutor the part of career prosecutors employed by frey, each one of these have written could make a name for himself. I remember the U.S. Department of Justice, has been letters supporting this amendment the totally unjustified case against President brought to my attention by State Representa- that we are asking the Members to Reagan's Secretary of Labor, Ray Donovan, in tive Harold James, who is Chairman of the vote on because it is a law enforcement which, after he was acquitted, made the fa- Pennsylvania Legislative Black Caucus, and issue, and even though we have a great mous statement, ``Where do I go to get my Representative Leanna Washington, Secretary deal of sympathy and compassion for reputation back?'' of the Pennsylvania Legislative Black Caucus. bad cases, bad cases can give us a bad Our Federal Government has become far Both Representative James and Represent- precedent here. too bigÐit is far too powerful. We all have ative Washington requested my support for We have to be careful not to adopt heard how, particularly the IRS is running the Citizens Protection Act, which I have sub- bad policy because we are sorry for roughshod over individual citizens. sequently co-sponsored. what has happened in the past. We Newsweek magazine recently had on its They informed me of the results of inde- have to adopt good policy, and the coverÐthe IRS Lawless, Abusive; Out of Con- pendent hearings, endorsed by the National amendment that is being offered here trol. Black Caucus of State Legislators, which my colleagues need to vote for because Unfortunately while there are good federal raised grave questions about misconduct by it will preserve a balance in our sys- prosecutors, there are far too many who are, prosecutors. The Caucus, the Nation's largest tem. like the IRS, lawless, abusive, and out-of-con- organization of African-American elected offi- Six former attorneys general of the trol. cials, in 1995 called for Congressional Hear- Almost no one, except extremely wealthy United States, both Democrat and Re- ings To Investigate Misconduct by the U.S. people, can take on the Federal Government. publican, have come out in opposition Department of Justice. to the underlying bill that we are try- To require Federal prosecutors to have to ing to strike. They have done that be- follow the same ethical rules as other lawyers Mr. Chairman, the McDade/Murtha amend- cause this would jeopardize our fight in is a very minimal step in the right direction ment addresses every area of concern ex- the war against drugs. When you are and toward helping to preserve at least a sem- pressed by my constituents. I urge its adop- talking about a battle of saving our blance of freedom in this Nation. tion. streets, we cannot take weapons away, Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I rise in op- we cannot give weapons to the defense myself the balance of my time. position to the amendment by the gentleman attorneys that are subject to the abuse (Mr. MCDADE asked and was given from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON). in the middle of a prosecution, but we permission to revise and extend his re- The amendment seeks to strike title VIII of have to help law enforcement. marks.) the bill, which consists of the legislation known Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I rise of as the Citizens Protection Act, authorized by b 1830 course in unequivocal opposition to the my colleagues form Pennsylvania, Mr. A misconduct review board appoints amendment of the gentleman from Ar- MCDADE and Mr. MURTHA. 3 people who are going to be reviewing kansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON). Let me say at the outset that I have res- what decisions a prosecutor makes in Sometimes in this House we forget ervations about a number of aspects of this the heat of a court room whether it is the watersheds that come our way and legislation. I am also uncomfortable with the reasonable or not. the moments of history that arrive process by which it has come before the I ask my colleagues to support the here sometimes not of our own making. House. Matters of this complexity and impor- Hutchinson-Barr-Bryant amendment. That is the kind of a night we face to- tance ought to be addressed through the nor- Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I yield night because the question we are mal process of committee deliberation, so that 30 seconds to the gentleman from Ten- about to vote on involves the liberty of the legislation can be fully examined and per- nessee (Mr. DUNCAN). every citizen of this country. fected before being brought to the floor. (Mr. DUNCAN asked and was given The bill is simple. Title I simply says Among the aspects of this legislation which permission to revise and extend his re- be ethical. Who supports it? All the I find problematic are the provisions establish- marks.) chief justices of all the 50 states, the ing an independent ``misconduct review Mr. DUNCAN. Mr. Chairman, I do not American Bar Association, every legal board''Ðan entity which I believe could unnec- have much time, but I just want to say organization besides that who has essarily complicate and politicize the law en- I spent 71⁄2 years as a criminal court taken a position of course supports the forcement mission. judge in Tennessee prior to coming to proposition, abide by the ethics rules. Congress, trying primarily felony Title II. My Lord, my colleagues, Nevertheless, I support the ethical stand- criminal cases, and I rise in strong op- what clarity. Listen to all it says. It is ards which comprise the core of this legisla- position to the Hutchinson amendment not hostile to a prosecutor or to the ef- tion, and I cannot support an amendment to and in strong support of the gentleman fort to prosecution. It simply says, and strip it from the bill. Mr. Hutchinson's amend- from Pennsylvania (Mr. MCDADE). listen to this, if my colleagues consider ment does not seek to remedy any particular Our Government has become far too this hostile, tell me, do not lie to the shortcomings of the measure; instead, it seeks big and far too powerful, and too many court. Oh, that is hostile to prosecu- to delete it entirely. Given this ``all-or-nothing'' individual citizens are being run rough- tion. Do not intimidate a witness or at- proposition, I would prefer to allow the legisla- shod by prosecutors that are totally tempt to color their testimony. Hostile tion to go to conference, where those of us out of control. We need to defeat this to the court. Hostile to the prosecu- who have concerns would have an opportunity amendment. tors. Do not leak information. Do not to have them addressed. Mr. Chairman, I think I am the only Member withhold exculpatory evidence on the I oppose the Hutchinson amendment and of this Congress who has ever sentenced any- person you are trying that may exoner- support the underlying legislation for one sim- one to the electric chair. ate him or her. Hostile. Do not bring ple reason: as a former district attorney, I un- I believe in being very tough on crime, and an indictment against a citizen of this derstand the truly awesome power that has I especially have been a strong supporter of country unless you have probable cause become concentrated in the hands of the local law enforcementÐthe people on the front to prove that they have committed a prosecutor. When abused, that power can and lines who are fighting the real crime, the vio- crime. does destroy innocent lives and reputations. lent crime that everyone is so concerned Those are the guidelines we set down And the system provides few checks and bal- about. for every citizen in this Nation. I hope ances to prevent such abuse. But I remember in late 1993 reading an arti- we will all vote against the Hutchinson When I was a district attorney, I hired many cle in Forbes magazine, one of the most con- amendment. brilliant, ambitious young lawyers. I gave them servative magazines in the Nation. Mr. BRADY of Pennsylvania. Mr. Chairman, a single admonition: ``understand the power of This article said that we had quadrupled the I rise in support of the McDade/Murtha your office, and do not abuse it. Understand Justice Department just since 1980 and that amendment to the Commerce-State-Justice that being a prosecutor is not about winning Federal prosecutors were falling all over them- appropriations bill, a provision also known as and losing. It is about seeing that justice is selves trying to find cases to prosecute. the Citizens Protection Act. done.'' H7246 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998

Most of the prosecutors I have known in the (Mr. HUTCHINSON) to strike the text of H.R. The bill's provision may also lead to an exo- course of my career have wielded their author- 3396 from the Commerce-Justice-State Appro- dus of experienced and qualified federal attor- ity with integrity and restraint. But those who priations bill. neys. According to Manella, senior managers fail to do so can be as dangerous to the I do not doubt the proponents' intent to en- in her office have expressed the view that they health of our society as the criminals they pur- sure that federal prosecutors are held to the would be reluctant to continue their federal sue. highest standards of professional conduct. In- service if the provision was enacted. If this Given this danger, it is necessary and ap- deed, as an attorney myself and member of were to happen, our federal criminal justice propriate that prosecutors be held to the several bars, I fully appreciate the importance system would be weakened, perhaps perma- standards of professional conduct to which of ``bright line'' rules governing ethical behav- nently, and the vigorous enforcement of our other attorneys are subject. I do not accept ior, as well as the difficulty in applying them to laws both Congress and the people expect will the assertion of the Department of Justice that the complex realities of practicing law. be reduced. their attorneys should be immune from these But the bill presumes that federal prosecu- Mr. Chairman, we have to remember that ethical rules whenever they find them unduly tors are not subject to stringent rules of con- our legal system is dependent on both the law confining. That is what ethical rules are for. duct. In fact, they are. They are subject to dis- enforcement officers who make arrests, and AndÐwhatever its other flawsÐthe Citizens ciplinary investigations and actions brought by the federal prosecutors who try the cases. Protection Act would ensure that prosecutors the Office of Professional Responsibility, the Let's not hamstring our fight against crime by follow the rules. Department's Inspector General and the Office imposing an unnecessary set of rules on pros- For these reasons, Mr. Chairman, I support of Public Integrity. In addition, it is the Depart- ecutors or unintentionally giving criminals a the legislation and urge defeat of the amend- ment's policy that its attorneys comply with the tool with which to stall investigations. This provision and its full implications have ment. ethical requirements of the state in which they not been fully examined and, in my view, it be- Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong are licensed and where they practice, unless hooves this chamber to approve the amend- support of the gentleman from Arkansas's those requirements are in conflict with federal ment to strike it until that examination has amendment. duties and responsibilities. But, most impor- taken place. When we get a letter from the Attorney tantly, in appropriate cases, the matter is re- I urge my colleagues to support the Hutch- General of the United States, stating that cer- ferred to the state bar disciplinary authorities inson amendment, and insert the full text of for further action. tain legislative language would ``chill law en- U.S. Attorney Manella's letter in the RECORD forcement and impede the ability of the [Jus- If there is a problem with prosecutorial mis- at this point. tice] Department to enforce the laws that Con- conduct, it should certainly be addressed. But U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, gress has mandated it enforce,'' you would is it better to address it by requiring federal NORA M. MANELLA, think that it would give us pause. prosecutors adhere to a single, high standard U.S. Attorney, Central District of California. When we get a letter from the National Dis- of conduct, or to 50 different sets of ethics Hon. JANE L. HARMAN, trict Attorneys Association, calling certain leg- rules? Indeed, some of the state rules may be U.S. House of Representatives, islative language ``extremely counter- contrary to the obligations and responsibilities Washington, DC, July 24, 1998. productive,'' you would think that we would at we may require of federal prosecutors. And, Re: H.R. 3396: Citizens Protection Act of 1998 DEAR CONGRESSWOMAN HARMAN: As United least want to take the time to analyze the im- as importantly, a federal system requires an States Attorney for the largest district in plications of that language carefully before even-handed application of justiceÐan appli- the country, encompassing 40,000 square proceeding. cation that, in my mind, is more difficult if ap- miles with a population of 16 million, I write And when we get a letter from the National propriate investigative techniques and pros- to urge your opposition to H.R. 3396, the Association of Assistant United States Attor- ecutorial actions are called into question under ‘‘Citizens Protection Act of 1998.’’ I under- neys, characterizing certain legislative lan- one state's set of rules but permitted by an- stand H.R. 3396 has been attached to the Commerce, State, Justice Appropriations guage as ``ill-conceived and unnecessary,'' other. bill, with a proviso that it be voted upon sep- you would think that we would want the com- More troubling, however, is the fact that the arately. As you may know, H.R. 3396 is mittee with oversight jurisdiction to hold hear- provisions have serious, and perhaps unin- strongly opposed by the Department of Jus- ings on that language and then debate tended, consequences which could cripple tice and by the 94 United States Attorneys amendments during mark-up, before we federal enforcement of our laws. In particular, nationwide whose responsibility it is to en- passed on it. the bill would permit defendants and their law- force federal law. It is also opposed by the But here we are, set to pass a Commerce- yers to disrupt ongoing investigations of illegal National District Attorneys Association, which has written separately to voice its ob- Justice-State Appropriations bill containing far- activity by raising claims of misconduct which, jections. A copy of that letter is enclosed. reaching language scorned by much of the under the bill, would require immediate inves- There is no dispute that employees of the law enforcement community, and the House tigation by the Attorney General. Nora M. Department of Justice should be held to the Judiciary Committee hasn't held a hearing or Manella, the U.S. Attorney for the Central Dis- highest standards of professional conduct. mark-up on it during this Congress! trict of California, which includes my district, Indeed, the Office of Professional Respon- That is simply not the way to deal with the wrote me to say that such allegations threat- sibility and the Inspector General’s Office al- ready have broad authority to investigate al- complex and controversial subject of prosecu- ened the disclosure of sensitive and confiden- legations of professional misconduct and to torial ethics. tial information and could jeopardize the safety take appropriate action. In addition, the De- If we're hearing in letters and phone calls of witnesses and the integrity of investigations. partment’s Public Integrity Section can and from prosecutors that the language struck by The bill's ``misconduct review board'' would be does investigate potentially criminal con- the Hutchinson amendment would result in the given authority to inject itself into ongoing duct. Thus, there is no need for additional disruption of multi-jurisdictional drug and gang criminal investigations, demanding confidential legislation. More troubling, however, are the unin- cases and the disclosure of confidential infor- and privileged material, and interfering with a tended consequences of H.R. 3396. It would, mation about ongoing investigations, then I cabinet officer's management of the internal inter alia, subject Department of Justice at- think that the Judiciary Committee should be affairs of a department. torneys to multiple and conflicting rules of hearing from them in actual hearings during As a result, Manella writes, ``in all but the 50 different state bar associations. (Had the this Congress before we proceed. simplest of cases, prosecutors will face the Oklahoma City bombing team been subject We owe at least that courtesy to the people risk of triggering at least some of the bill's pro- to the provisions of this bill, the results whom we charge with putting away gang visions. Far from protecting the public from could have been a virtual nightmare.) In ad- misguided Department employees, the pro- dition, the bill would permit defendants and lords, drug dealers, and white-collar scam art- their lawyers to disrupt ongoing investiga- ists. posed bill would inhibit vigorous investigation tions of illegal activity by raising claims of Perhaps no one here has clean hands with and prosecution of criminals, thus crippling the misconduct which, under the bill, would re- respect to legislating in appropriations bills. ability of federal prosecutors to enforce the quire immediate investigation by the Attor- But the language in this bill regarding prosecu- very laws Congress has enacted. ney General, threatening the disclosure of torial ethics clearly crosses the line between ``Enacting a bill which virtually invites frivo- sensitive and confidential information that the procedurally acceptable and unacceptable. lous complaints designed to obstruct and im- could jeopardize the safety of witnesses and pede legitimate law enforcement investigations the integrity of investigations. I urge my colleagues to support the Hutch- Finally, the proposed bill would subject inson amendment. will do nothing to ensure professional conduct Department attorneys and employees to Ms. HARMAN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in of Department employees, but will, instead, sanctions—including loss of pension—with- strong support of the amendment offered by discourage lawyers from carrying out their law- out the procedural safeguards for disciplin- the distinguished gentleman from Arkansas ful duties.'' ing other federal employees. A ‘‘Misconduct August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7247 Review Board’’ would be given authority to the Chair has exercised that preroga- order and may have done so today, I inject itself into ongoing criminal investiga- tive, and the vote will be postponed. have not had it confirmed that the tions, demanding confidential and classified Are there further amendments to order suspending it was signed. I be- material, and interfering with a cabinet offi- this section? cer’s management of the internal affairs of a lieve that Congress needs to speak very department. In all but the simplest of cases, PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY effectively to this issue, as the mayors prosecutors will face the risk of triggering at Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, par- and the governors, and county officials least some of the bill’s provisions. Far from liamentary inquiry. have done. We must say that we should protecting the public from misguided De- May I inquire as to where we are in kill this executive order to make sure partment employees, the proposed bill would terms of amendments? that it does not raise its head again. inhibit vigorous investigation and prosecu- The CHAIRMAN. Title VIII has been Even the President’s chief of staff tion of criminals, thus crippling the ability considered read pursuant to the earlier colorfully described the administration of federal prosecutors to enforce the very unanimous consent request. as having messed up by not consulting laws Congress has enacted. On a practical level, I can say this pro- Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, are you with governors, mayors, and other posed bill has created greater concern in my then asking if there are further amend- state and local government leaders be- office than any piece of legislation I can re- ments to title VIII? fore they issued this executive order. call throughout my more than a dozen years The CHAIRMAN. Are there further I applaud the efforts of the gen- as a federal prosecutor. Senior managers in amendments to title VIII? tleman from Indiana (Mr. MCINTOSH), my office—outstanding and experienced Title VIII has been considered read. who has already begun to hold some prosecutors and civil litigators—have ex- Are there amendments to this part of hearings on this matter, and I know pressed the view that they would be reluc- the bill? that the Committee on the Judiciary is tant to continue their federal service were Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, my in- this bill enacted. Similarly, District Attor- going to examine what the effects of neys have indicated they would be leery of quiry was has the Chair asked for fur- this executive order, if it is re- cross-designating local prosecutors to assist ther amendments to title VIII? Is it instituted, would be. in federal prosecutions, were they subject to now appropriate for me to ask for other Hopefully, the administration will the bill’s provisions. Should this bill pass, amendments? consult with them in addition to the there is a very real prospect of a significant The CHAIRMAN. If the inquiry is, is state and local officials that were left loss of experienced lawyers from this office, it appropriate for the gentleman from out of the process. But by suspending leaving the public with talented but less ex- Arizona (Mr. KOLBE) to offer amend- Executive Order 13083, the administra- perienced lawyers, willing to run the risk of ments following title VIII, the answer tion has already demonstrated that it operating under this bill (when their pension to that is yes. benefits are few), and determined to leave was premature and ill-advised. And I after fulfilling their minimum commitment. AMENDMENT NO. 19 OFFERED BY MR. KOLBE say it is time to put this House on the I cannot believe this what the bill’s sponsors Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I offer an record as saying we agree and we do intended. amendment. not expect you to implement that exec- As noted above, Department of Justice em- The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- utive order, Mr. President. We should ployees are already subject to multiple dis- ignate the amendment. act now because we do not know when ciplinary mechanisms to ensure their adher- The text of the amendment is as fol- he might act to put it back in place ence to the highest standards of professional lows: conduct. Enacting a bill which virtually in- and we would not have an opportunity vites frivolous complaints designed to ob- Amendment No. 19 offered by Mr. KOLBE: then to offer that. struct and impede legitimate law enforce- At the end of the bill, insert after the last That brings me to another reason for ment investigations will do nothing to en- section (preceding the short title) the follow- offering this amendment at this time. ing: sure professional conduct of Department em- There is an amendment which will fol- ployees, but will, instead, discourage lawyers TITLE —ADDITIONAL GENERAL low this offered by the gentleman from PROVISIONS from carrying out their lawful duties. In the Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY) that would pro- end, the unfortunate and unintended result SEC. . None of the funds made available in hibit funding both for this executive will be a reduction in appropriately vigorous this or any other Act may be used to imple- enforcement of Congress’ laws, and the ment, administer, or enforce Executive order and the executive order that weakening of our federal criminal justice Order 13083 (titled ‘‘Federalism’’ and dated codifies administration policy, does system. May 14, 1998). not change Federal law or create any Please feel free to call me, should you have Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, quoting affirmative action program, but would any questions concerning the above. from the Constitution of the United codify the current Federal practices Sincerely, States: ‘‘The powers not delegated to with respect to discrimination based on NORA M. MANELLA, sexual orientation. United States Attorney. the United States by the Constitution, The CHAIRMAN. All time has ex- nor prohibited by it to the States, are Unfortunately, because this amend- pired. reserved to the States respectively or ment is protected by the rule, it cannot The question is on the amendment to the people.’’ be divided. There is no way to get a offered by the gentleman from Arkan- That is the 10th Amendment to the vote separately on these two totally sas (Mr. HUTCHINSON). Constitution of the United States. different issues that are out there. I The question was taken; and the My amendment today goes to the think most Members in this House Chairman announced that the noes ap- very heart of that and would say that want to have a clean vote on these two peared to have it. the executive order issued 2 months issues separately. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I ago by the President, Executive Order Now, let me just take a moment of demand a recorded vote. No. 13083, could significantly expand my time, since only 20 minutes is per- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House the role and power of the Federal Gov- mitted under the rule to debate the Resolution 508, further proceedings on ernment. Hefley amendment, to say why I think the amendment offered by the gen- Mr. Chairman, a couple of examples that we should vote aye on this, on fed- tleman from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCH- of what this executive order would do: eralism, and no on the one dealing with INSON) will be postponed. It justifies the creation of a national sexual orientation. PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY standards ‘‘when there is a need’’ as de- By passing the Kolbe amendment, it Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, par- termined by the Federal Government. would make it clear in the next debate liamentary inquiry. Second, it would eliminate language when we get to the Hefley debate that The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will in President Reagan’s federalism exec- there is one subject and one subject state his parliamentary inquiry. utive order regarding preemption of only that is under discussion; and that Mr. MCDADE. Mr. Chairman, I sim- state law by the Federal Government. is this simple question: Should dis- ply request that we reconsider the roll- Third, it puts the Federal Govern- crimination be permitted in the Fed- ing of the vote and vote on this amend- ment in the position of determining eral workplace based on sexual orienta- ment right now instead of postponing when States have not adequately pro- tion. And that should be and will be it. The Members are here. tected individual rights. the only question that is involved. The CHAIRMAN. Under the rule the Even though the President has The debate on that amendment is not Chair has the discretion on this and talked about suspending this executive going to be about affirmative action. It H7248 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 is not going to be about quotas. It special preferences, quotas or affirma- To me, one of the most important of should not be about giving the right to tive action in any form, nor does it en- those rights is the right of privacy, the sue. It is not about giving the access of dorse any so-called life-style. right of individual privacy, that unless any individual to the EEOC or the Civil What it does is ensure equality and the government has a reason, a very Rights Commission, because the execu- fairness to a group of individuals by strong reason to find out matters of tive order and the law does none of bringing uniformity to already existing one’s personal life, the government has those things. Individuals have no such Federal nondiscrimination policies. no business inquiring into those mat- right, no such access under current Equal protection under the law is not a ters, and certainly no business denying law. privilege to be enjoyed by some; it is a somebody a position in government be- So when my colleagues vote on basic right to which every American is cause of what an individual might Hefley, they have to ask themselves entitled. characterize as his or her own private the very simple question: Do they be- If anyone in this favored land is dis- life. lieve that Federal employment super- criminated against, civil society is Mr. Chairman, Federal law already visors and managers, those who have weakened and we are all diminished. prohibits discriminating in Federal the responsibility for hiring and firing Bigotry has no place in America and employment on any basis other than and promoting individuals, should be should have no sanction of even the the conduct of one’s actual perform- able to hire, to not hire, or to fire, or most covert sort. ance on the job. This is in title V of the to fail to promote solely on the basis of Here let me be clear. If non- United States Code, section 2302, para- sexual orientation? discrimination precepts cannot be graph 10. Federal law prohibits dis- Members need to ask themselves sanctioned for men and women who are crimination ‘‘on the basis of conduct would they fire someone in their office gay and lesbian, does this not implic- which does not adversely affect the solely because they learned that that itly legitimize discrimination? And if performance of the employee or appli- individual was a homosexual, or con- lawmakers assert that equal protection cant or the performance of others.’’ versely, that they were heterosexual? under the law should not be available Accordingly, the executive order by Now, many in this body, in fact well to one group of Americans, could this President Clinton which added sexual over half of this body, have signed not result in actions that none of us orientation to the list of prohibited their own pledge of nondiscrimination could conceivably endorse, the possibil- considerations for advancing or inhib- within their offices. So I would ask this ity that some Americans could be iting a person’s individual employment question of all of those who have shunned and perhaps, metaphorically, prospects in Federal Government is a signed that pledge: Do they believe stoned? simple application of what is already that if a manager in a Federal execu- Executive orders of this nature and Federal law, namely, conduct that does tive agency in the branch of the Fed- civil rights laws in general cannot by not adversely affect the performance of eral Government should be held to a presidential signature or majority vote the employee or applicant or the per- lesser standard than they are willing to change people’s attitudes, but they can formance of others cannot be used as hold themselves to? Think about it. help protect individual rights and re- the basis of discrimination. An aye vote on Hefley after we have move impediments to the exercise of Case law under this existing statu- disposed of this amendment, the Kolbe individual aptitudes. tory provision also supports this point amendment, which would say no Political leadership involves more of view, both from the Fifth Circuit money shall be spent to implement the than the crafting and execution of and from the Merit System Protection Federal executive order on federalism, laws. An essential role of leadership is Board, that conduct outside of the that after we have voted to dispose of to do everything possible to bring peo- workplace may not be the basis of dis- that, a vote on Hefley would be simply ple together rather than accentuate crimination as to an employee in the putting this body, the House, on record differences which have the effect of Federal service. And so existing law as saying that discrimination on sexual rupturing society. That is why it is so creates a very solid basis for what orientation solely because of an indi- important for elected officials to ap- President Clinton did in his executive vidual’s sexual orientation is okay. peal to what Abraham Lincoln called order. But so also does personal free- Do we want that? Do my colleagues ‘‘the better angels of our nature.’’ dom and individual liberty, the provi- want that? I do not think so. I urge Political debate should thus be meas- sions of the 10th amendment to which Members to vote aye on Kolbe and no ured as to whether it is directed to the my colleague from Arizona’s motion on Hefley. best or the least in all of us. speaks. Mr. LEACH. Mr. Chairman, I rise in In this context, Mr. Chairman, I am The executive order is alleged to lead support of the Kolbe amendment and in concerned that the party to which I be- to quotas or some form of affirmative opposition to the Hefley amendment to long which sprang out of an individual action and the use of numbers. Here I follow. rights tradition, preeminently a cru- must make a substantial point of dis- Mr. Chairman, I would like to speak sade to end slavery, may be in the agreement. First of all, the origin of af- principally to the reasons behind the process of rejecting part of its own her- firmative action under title VII in dis- amendment being offered today by the itage. In the American creed, individ- crimination law was as follows: People gentleman from Arizona (Mr. KOLBE). ual rights are not selective. They do observed a workplace and in observing not apply to some people and not oth- that workplace said, ‘‘Well, we don’t b 1845 ers. Equal opportunity and protection see that many African-Americans, or The history of America is the story under the law cannot be denied any we don’t see that many women. From of individual rights. It begins with a law-abiding American no matter how that we derive an inference perhaps country founded on principles which controversial his or her life-style may that there might be something wrong had never been manifest in any society be. with your hiring program, wrong with and which were not comprehensively Accordingly, I urge intraparty recon- your employment methods.’’ But ori- instituted at the founding of the Re- sideration of legislative initiatives of entation is not observable. It is really public. It has taken two centuries of the nature of that which will follow quite a stretch to make the argument struggle which have included a Civil this one, a ‘‘yes’’ vote on the Kolbe that this prohibition on discrimination War, a suffrage and civil rights move- amendment and a ‘‘no’’ on the Hefley will lead to affirmative action quotas, ment to ensure the rights of minorities amendment. set-asides, or numerical goals for the and women. In the context of our his- Mr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Chairman, I very reason that one cannot look at tory, it is common sense and common move to strike the last word. the workforce and say an employer decency that no one today be allowed Mr. Chairman, the 10th amendment does not have the right number of a to be prejudiced against simply be- that our colleague from Arizona quoted particular group when the issue in cause of their sexual orientation. concluded that the rights not given to question is orientation. The executive order which will short- the Federal Government or to the Secondly, the words of the executive ly be under review has nothing to do States are reserved to the people—the order are that ‘‘an affirmative program with the creation of special privileges, people. of equal employment opportunity for August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7249 all civilian employees and applicants the argument that this executive order here. It means the government must for employment’’ must be followed. I leads to the use of orientation by the root out discrimination, and then af- emphasize just that phrase. The execu- government and leads to quotas, you firmative action was used to refer, at tive order speaks of an affirmative pro- are giving up the argument on every least by some, to the additional obliga- gram. It does not use that catch word other aspect that we are fighting so tions on which people of good will have ‘‘affirmative action.’’ The origin of the hard to establish in title VII law. differed. catch word ‘‘affirmative action’’ was a Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. I Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. I 1961 executive order by President Ken- thank the gentleman. I did take my thank the gentleman. I again want to nedy. In 1965 it was applied to equal time now because I wanted the gen- stress that. Because from any angle housing. And in 1969 it was applied to tleman to complete this very impor- you look at it, the affirmative action Federal employment with regard to tant statement. And he is right. Some issue is not part of this. The President gender and with regard to discrimina- of us do differ on the role of affirma- is not seeking it. This executive order tion on the basis of religion. tive action with regard to race and does not trigger it automatically. Ad- In the order in 1965, there was a care- gender. But I know of no advocate of vocates of nondiscrimination in the ful distinction, in my judgment, in affirmative action with regard to sex- sexual orientation context oppose af- using the word ‘‘program,’’ as separate ual orientation nor, by the way, with firmative action, and most tellingly, as from the phrase ‘‘affirmative action,’’ religion and age, and I cite that be- the gentleman from California has which was well known at that time. cause this particular executive order, said, it is indeed precisely those who But even if that phrase were not dif- which is going to be the subject of a are most critical of affirmative action ferent (and it is and that is an impor- later amendment, deals not just with who insist that you can have a non- tant point), I strongly believe that no race and gender but with religion and discrimination policy without affirma- one should take a statute which says age and it has never given rise to af- tive action. That is what this is. ‘‘you shall not discriminate’’ and use it firmative action. The notion that be- Those who argue that articulating a as the basis of discriminating. It is for cause a category is in this executive nondiscrimination policy automati- that reason that I have always opposed order it will lead to affirmative action cally engender affirmative action are the use of race by government. It is for is belied by the fact that over many, undercutting the anti-affirmative ac- that reason that I supported Propo- many years no one has ever seen an af- tion argument because they are then sition 209 in my State of California. It firmative action, an affirmative out- saying, and I never know what the con- is wrong, morally wrong, for the gov- reach, an affirmative anything pro- verse or the reverse or the adverse is, ernment to look at somebody’s skin gram with regard to many of the cat- but the opposite. They are then saying color, to look at somebody’s gender egories covered. The President has spe- that if you have one, you have to have the other. Those who want to kill af- and to say, ‘‘That is a basis for you get- cifically disavowed any intention of af- firmative action are bound to argue ting a job or you getting into a univer- firmative action with regard to sexual that you may have nondiscrimination sity.’’ orientation, and as one of the drafters And so tonight, Mr. Chairman, I will without affirmative action. of the Employment Nondiscrimination The other thing is, I do want to not surrender the argument to the Act dealing with sexual orientation, I thank the gentleman from Arizona for other side. I will not say that because would alert Members to read that. It bringing up this so we can once again this executive order bans discrimina- again specifically disavows affirmative vote on the federalism order. The gen- tion, it therefore must lead to quotas. action. We are not arguing for affirma- tleman from Florida did it first. So we We are right in saying that anti- tive action in that context. have already had a unanimous House I think the gentleman from Califor- discrimination is not the same thing as vote to kill the executive order on fed- nia, and I would be glad to yield him an obligation to use numbers. We are eralism, then the President suspended right in the Fifth Circuit, we are right again, has made a very important it, then he withdrew it, now we are in the Ninth Circuit and in my judg- point. Those of us who have a disagree- going to vote against it again. We are ment we will very soon be justified by ment about affirmative action have it killing a dead man that committed sui- the Supreme Court. To every fellow with regard to race and with gender, cide before he was born. This executive conservative on this issue, I urge you, but no one is an advocate of it being order on federalism if it was a cat it do not give in to the argument that used here. And in no case, let me just would be dead, because it is going to be antidiscrimination means affirmative close with this, in no case have State killed about nine times. action. laws on this subject given rise to af- PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. firmative action based on sexual ori- Mr. HEFLEY. Parliamentary in- Chairman, I move to strike the req- entation. That is a nonissue. quiry, Mr. Chairman. uisite number of words, and I yield to I yield to the gentleman from Cali- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will the gentleman from California. fornia. state it. Mr. CAMPBELL. I will only use 30 Mr. CAMPBELL. I thank the gen- Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, as I un- seconds, and I most appreciate my col- tleman for yielding one more time. derstand clause 1 of rule XIV of the league for yielding. First of all I think his point is very in- rules of the House, we are supposed to We need to therefore observe the dis- sightful. No one has ever had an affirm- debate the subject of the amendment tinction in the language that affirma- ative action quota, minimum hire for that is before us. It seems to me most tive action is not in this executive religion or on the basis of age. But the of these gentlemen are debating the order, that it is absurd to consider that phrase in this executive order is ‘‘af- next amendment and not this amend- this executive order will lead to affirm- firmative program’’ I quoted, ‘‘an af- ment. I would like to ask the Chair if ative action because one would have to firmative program of equal employ- that is correct and if we should refrain observe the characteristic. And no- ment opportunity for all civilian em- from that. body, nobody, including the worst crit- ployees and applicants for employ- The CHAIRMAN. Members must con- ics of this President, are saying that he ment.’’ fine their remarks to the pending is ordering the ascertainment of I note that the phrase ‘‘an affirma- amendment that is before the Commit- whether one is gay or straight in the tive program’’ was used in the 1965 ex- tee. Federal employment sector. ecutive order to deal with the obliga- Mr. MCINTOSH. Mr. Chairman, I Lastly and most importantly, al- tions of government, namely, that the move to strike the requisite number of though my good friend from Massachu- government must adopt a program to words. I rise in support of the pending setts and I may part company on this, root out discrimination. The phrase af- amendment by the gentleman from Ar- I appreciate his kindness in yielding to firmative action was used as to the izona (Mr. KOLBE). me to make this point once again to contractor, and that, to my judgment Mr. Chairman, so everybody knows those of us who believe there should erroneously but nevertheless by some, and the record is clear, if I refer to ex- never be the use of race or gender to is argued to lead to the hiring or the ecutive order, I am referring to the distinguish among American citizens promoting according to numbers. But President’s federalism executive order, by their government, that if you buy the word ‘‘program’’ is a key phrase 13083. H7250 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 Frankly I was outraged when Presi- they were with the Executive Branch more than any other issue got me here dent Clinton issued that executive for our failure to be consistent in re- back in 1994, and outside my door I order revoking President Reagan’s his- specting federalism. have a copy of the 10th Amendment toric executive order on federalism Now on July 30 I again wrote the written. We could talk for hours and issued in 1987. President Reagan’s exec- President as a result of that hearing hours about a billion different issues utive order provided many protections and Mr. DeSeve, saying that they relating to the Clinton executive order, for and reflected great deference to wanted to start over from ground zero to the 10th Amendment, to the con- State and local governments. based on the Reagan executive order, stitutional ramifications of that execu- By stark contrast, President Clin- asking him to definitively withdraw tive order, and we can spend as many ton’s new executive order, issued with- that, and I understand through news hours talking about an issue that will out prior consultation with State and reports that today he has done so and continue to follow everybody in this local governments, betrays and repudi- suspended Executive Order 13083. Chamber for as long as we live, and ates an 11-year tradition of trust and But I think the Kolbe amendment is that is the rights of homosexuals in mutual consultation between the absolutely necessary to make it clear American civilization. Those two de- States and the executive branch. In its that the agencies cannot spend any bates are as contentious as any debates place, the order laid out the ground- funds pursuant to that executive order that we could bring up, and for a rule work for an unprecedented Federal or any executive order that does not to be drafted that would require us to power grab in virtually every area of fully defer to the States. So I want to speak on the rights of homosexuals in policy previously reserved to the commend the gentleman for offering the Federal workplace as well as fed- States under the 10th amendment. this amendment. eralism in 20 minutes is absolutely not On June 8, I wrote to President Clin- Mr. Chairman, I yield the remainder shocking, but it is a joke. ton that ‘‘I could not understand how of my time to the gentleman from Vir- The gentleman from Massachusetts you, as a former governor, could will- ginia (Mr. BLILEY), chairman of the (Mr. FRANK) said earlier, was talking ingly abandon the protections accorded Committee on Commerce. about how many times this has been the States since 1987 from unwarranted Mr. BLILEY. Mr. Chairman, I wanted killed, and he talked about Rasputin, federal regulatory burdens.’’ to make it clear that I oppose affirma- said he did not think that Rasputin had tive action. I think it divides us rather been shot and killed as many times as b 1900 than brings us together. I would oppose this executive order. I concur, but I Then on June 10 my subcommittee any effort to add sexual orientation as would like to kick it one more time called the National Governors’ Associa- a protected class under the Federal af- just for the heck of it. It was put to tion to ascertain their view of this new firmative action program. death earlier today. executive order. Shockingly, their Ex- That being said, I unequivocally op- The gentleman from Indiana (Mr. ecutive Director was totally unaware pose discrimination. When I hire some- MCINTOSH) had some hearings on the that this order had been issued. They one in my office, I do not ask the pro- issue, we had some fascinating testi- learned about it first from Members of spective employee their sexual orienta- mony on it, and most of the people Congress, not the White House. Appar- tion. agreed that reversing Ronald Reagan’s Executive Order in 1987, and again the ently the Clinton-Gore White House PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY has neither consulted with any of the Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, par- President’s Executive Order in 1993, was dangerous. The Reagan Executive principal State and local government liamentary inquiry. interest groups prior to issuing this The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will Order stated that the constitutional re- order, nor notified them about it after state his parliamentary inquiry. lationship among sovereign States, it had been issued. Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, I be- State and national, is formalized and Now on July 17 the leadership of the lieve the gentleman is debating the protected by the 10th Amendment to Big 7 requested that the President re- next amendment, not this amendment. the Constitution. But this is what voke this executive order. As the gen- My parliamentary inquiry is, Mr. some of the State and local officials tleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Chairman, that I believe the gentleman said about the President’s Executive Order: FRANK) has pointed out, he has done is debating the next amendment, not Mike Leavitt, the Executive Commit- that today. What I think is important the federalism amendment. We have is that we make it very clear that the tee Chairman of the National Gov- federalism in the next amendment, but ernors’ Association, said, ‘‘Executive trust that had been built up is no he is debating a part of the amendment longer there, that this President, quite Order 13083 repudiates the masterful that will follow this one. wisdom of our founders and is now in- frankly, does not have that credibility The CHAIRMAN. The Chair asks with the State and local officials be- consistent with the United States Con- Members to confine their remarks to stitution. The Governors seek your as- cause of that stealthy action to revoke the amendment at hand. that provision. sistance to halt that course.’’ Mr. BLILEY. Mr. Chairman, I am The North Carolina State Represent- Now I think it is the height of irony, sorry the gentleman rose to that, but it ative, Daniel Blue, the President of the frankly, that the President while out does not alter my feelings whatsoever. National Conference of State Legisla- of the country issued an order that re- I think his amendment is a mistake, tures, said Executive Order 13083 must versed that 11-year commitment with and I would hope that all Members be revoked. no advanced notice, no opportunity to would oppose it. Democratic Mayor Edward Rendell comment, no voice for the States in Mr. Chairman, this is ill considered. from Philadelphia, the Chairman of the the decision that will drastically upset It is a wrong amendment. U.S. Conference of Mayors, said it is es- the constitutional balance of power be- Mr. SCARBOROUGH. Mr. Chairman, sential that federalism policy reflect a tween the States and the Executive I move to strike the requisite number proper balance of authority be devel- Branch. of words. oped in cooperation with and supported On July 28 I chaired a hearing to ex- I would like to thank the gentleman by the State and local governments. amine first the potential impacts of from Arizona (Mr. KOLBE) for bringing The President of the National League the new executive order, and second, up this amendment. I may not agree of Cities concurred and said we join in the need for possible legislation to ad- with all the arguments that have been by requesting the rescinding of the new dress the concerns of the State and put forward thus far, but we are talk- executive order on federalism, and local government. This hearing allowed ing about in the next amendment, and jointly the Conference wrote a letter to the States and elected officials to voice I am not going to be going to the ac- the President, and said: their concern and former and current tual substance of that amendment but ‘‘We believe it is especially critical administration officials to express rather the procedure under which that for you to consider and act upon now their rationales for the federalism ex- amendment is going to be debated; we our request to withdraw the order as ecutive orders. Quite frankly, the State are going to be talking about two ex- quickly as possible.’’ and local officials were, let us say, at traordinarily complex issues: federal- That came out in our hearing in the least as perturbed with Congress as ism, which is the issue that probably McIntosh subcommittee and I thank August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7251 the President today from the House even not defined international obliga- Mr. SHAYS. Mr. Chairman, is it not floor for rescinding that order. I think tion. It goes far beyond even the ex- true that a Member can compare one it was an important thing to do, and I panse of reading of the Interstate Com- amendment with another when one hope over the next 90 days, as he talks merce Clause of the Constitution which amendment seeks to deal with one ex- to State and local officials, that he will has provided the basis for so much Fed- ecutive order and another amendment pay special attention to their concerns eral intrusion in the lives of our citi- seeks to deal with that executive order and their needs and recognize the need zens, our schools, our businesses, our in another? And is it not true that we for reinstating the Reagan Executive local governments and our State gov- have the ability and right as Members Order in 1987 and also reinstating his ernments. It simply says as the A-No. 1 of this floor to be able to compare one order in 1993. reason why Federal agencies or depart- amendment versus another and why we Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman ments may supersede State or local ac- support one amendment versus an- from Arizona (Mr. KOLBE) for bringing tion, quote, when the matter to be ad- other? this very important amendment to the dressed by Federal action occurs inter- The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would re- floor. state as opposed to being contained mind Members that if the debate lends Mr. BARR of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, within one State’s boundaries, close itself that way, then the debate ought I move to strike the requisite number quote. Do not even have to have the to connect both amendments in that of words. commerce nexus. regard. But the Chair would ask Mem- We have not seen the stroke of the One can go on and see how expansive bers, and the Chair would remind Mem- pen yet that Paul Begala spoke about, and indeed how expansive and indeed bers, that their remarks should be con- Mr. Chairman. Recently Clinton politi- how frightening this executive order is, fined to the amendment pending before cal adviser, Mr. Paul Begala, was and it is because of that scope, that the committee. quoted as saying, and I quote these im- breathtaking scope of this executive b 1915 mortal words: order, why it is important this evening Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, further Stroke of the pen, law of the land, to go on record to say that we in the parliamentary inquiry. kind of cool, close quote. Congress continue to believe in the Mr. Chairman, there is nothing in Yes, that is really cool. Constitution, we continue to believe in this amendment that has to do with Mr. Chairman, we have heard a lot of separation of powers, we continue to sexual orientation or carving out spe- talk over the last few days, including believe in the 10th Amendment, and cial privileges for any group in the right here on the floor, that cham- until we see, until we see the actual workforce, and yet that is what the pagne bottles are being cracked open signature, we will not rest and we gentlewoman is debating. It would because the President has stroked that should not rest. We must be vigilant. It seem to me that under the rules cited pen one more time and made a new law will be kind of cool if that happens, but earlier in Section 14, that that is not of the land. I am going to reserve judg- let us wait and see. appropriate, and that the gentlewoman ment, Mr. Chairman. I ‘‘ain’t’’ break- Mr. Chairman, I urge adoption of the should wait and seek time under the ing my bottle of champagne open yet, amendment offered by the gentleman following amendment. not with the track record of this ad- from Arizona (Mr. KOLBE). The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would ministration. Mrs. LOWEY. Mr. Chairman, I move ask Members to confine their remarks The only way that an executive order to strike the requisite number of to the amendment at hand. can be rescinded or altered or mended words. Mrs. LOWEY. Mr. Chairman, I want in any way, including its operative Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to to thank the gentleman from Connecti- date, which in the case of Executive the amendment offered by the gen- cut for making that point. I am leading Order 13083 is August 12 of this year, is tleman from Arizona (Mr. KOLBE), and up to that argument. by another executive order or by legis- I want to take this opportunity to Frankly, I have been serving in this lation. Now until we see that dried ink speak against another version of this House for 10 years, and I cannot re- on the new executive order which re- amendment that may soon be offered member a time when someone was ar- scinds Executive Order 13083, Executive to also overturn the executive order re- guing an amendment and someone was Order 13083 remains operative. garding discrimination in the Federal so concerned that speakers were going So I think that this amendment of- work force. to challenge their arguments that they fered by the gentleman from Arizona At the heart of the debate over Exec- would silence Members in proceeding this evening is very much relevant, utive Order 13087 is one of the most and arguing their point. So I am lead- very much on point, very much apropos basic rights in any civil society, to be ing up to the point made by the gen- and ought to go forward. It sends not judged in the workplace on the content tleman from Connecticut. only an important message, as several of one’s character, not on one’s race, Mr. Chairman, I just want to say, it of the speakers have already said, to religion, gender or sexual orientation. is really sad that the radical right can- let the White House know that at least Mr. Chairman, this is a question of not tolerate a society in which all here in the halls of this Congress the civil rights, not special rights, and the Americans are afforded the same basic 10th Amendment does have some mean- sad truth is that the radical right can- rights, and in this election season, the ing. It also, I believe, Mr. Chairman, is not tolerate a society in which all Republican leadership has decided that very important because it will stop Americans are afforded the same basic it is in their political interests to side funding for this executive order if, in rights. with the ignorance and bigotry of the fact, that pen that Mr. Begala loves so PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRIES radical right. much hesitated at the last moment. We Mr. HEFLEY. Parliamentary in- The fact is it is still legal in this day will see. quiry, Mr. Chairman. and age to fire someone simply because I would also like to urge my col- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will they are gay or lesbian. That is out- leagues to take a close look at Execu- state his parliamentary inquiry. rageous, and the majority of Ameri- tive Order 13083 and note the nine cat- Mr. HEFLEY. Is it true that we cans agree it is an outrage. But an egories, count them, nine, categories of should stick to the subject of the overwhelming majority of Americans activities of State, Federal, State and amendment we are dealing with and believe that gays and lesbians in the local government that will be swept not debate another amendment? workplace deserve the same basic away by that stroke of the pen that The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would re- rights. Mr. Begala thinks is just oh so cool. mind Members that the debate should It is terribly ironic, Mr. Chairman, The list of activities of which this ex- be on the amendment that is pending that the very same people who tout the ecutive order purports to give jurisdic- in the Committee and confine remarks virtues of running the Federal Govern- tion any Federal agency or department to that. ment like a corporation are leading the is as vast as any activity of which it Mr. SHAYS. Parliamentary inquiry, fight against this executive order. The purports to give a Federal agency or Mr. Chairman. list of companies that prohibit job dis- department jurisdiction, including if The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will crimination based on sexual orienta- there is some ill-defined or perhaps state his parliamentary inquiry. tion is a ‘‘Who’s Who’’ of corporate H7252 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 America: IBM, Microsoft, Xerox, tion of that phrase, that all men are it is not about quotas, it is about fair- AT&T, Coca-Cola, Home Depot, and the created equal. In 1776 that did not ness. It certainly is not about affirma- list goes on and on. Numerous State mean women, did not mean black peo- tive action. It is about protection from and local governments also provide ple, did not mean Native Americans, discrimination, as both the gentleman these protections for their employees. did not mean anyone other than white from California and my friend and col- Mr. Chairman, the executive order is males. We have spent 200 years expand- league from Massachusetts have al- very modest, it is long overdue, and yet ing that definition. Before the Civil ready gone over. here we are voting whether to deny War we had 100 years of turmoil and In fact, the executive order no more more than 2 million employees this politics and riots to expand that to in- requires affirmative action based on most basic protection. What a sad com- clude people of different races. We have sexual orientation than the original ex- mentary on this institution. now at least professed to include ecutive order that it amends, which, by I urge my colleagues to vote ‘‘no’’ on women. the way, was promulgated by President the Kolbe amendment, and I also urge The only group which someone can Nixon back in 1969, requiring affirma- my colleagues to defeat the Hefley still stand up and say, without being tive action based on race, religion, gen- amendment to repeal Executive Order ridiculed off the stage, is not included der, age or disability. 13087. in the definition of equality are people Not once has the gentleman from Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I move of different sexual orientation, are Massachusetts stated that the execu- to strike the requisite number of gays and lesbians and transgender indi- tive order that was issued in 1969 by words. viduals. President Nixon has ever been inter- (Mr. NADLER asked and was given Mr. Chairman, it is imperative that preted to require affirmative action or permission to revise and extend his re- we begin the process of expanding the to confer special rights of any kind. marks.) promise of the Declaration of Inde- These arguments, if they are made, Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I rise pendence to include the last unincluded are, at best, disingenuous. strongly to oppose this Kolbe amend- group, gays and lesbians and This amendment to the Nixon execu- ment and the Hefley amendment. The transgender people. I think the Amer- tive order simply extends protection amendment is an attempt to gut the ican people support fairness and equal- from discrimination when it comes to recent executive order issued by Presi- ity. It makes sense, if someone is quali- hiring, firing and promotion to gay dent Clinton which added sexual ori- fied to do a job, he or she should not be men and women if you work for the entation to the nondiscrimination pol- denied a job based on irrelevant fac- Federal Government. Nothing more, icy of the Federal Government. That tors. nothing else. executive order was not about special More than half of the Fortune 500 Basically it means that Federal agen- privileges, it was about fairness and companies and most Members of Con- cies must be fair in their employment equality. gress already have their own policies to practices. It is only about fairness, and Many departments in the Federal prevent discrimination on the basis of insisting that the Federal Government, Civil Service have already imple- sexual orientation. It is about time the executive branch, treat everyone mented their own policies against dis- that the Federal Government as a the same, that is, on the merits. crimination on the basis of sexual ori- whole follows suit. Some would suggest that amendment entation. These policies, however, lack That is the bottom line, and after we to the Nixon executive order is unnec- uniformity and consistency. This exec- deal with discrimination in employ- essary, that gay men and women do not utive order is necessary to remedy ment, then we will deal with discrimi- need to be protected in the workplace. these inconsistencies by promoting nation in public accommodation, hous- I submit that is wrong. Look at this uniformity in nondiscrimination poli- ing and other things. Right now it is Chamber. Approximately 190 Members cies in the Federal Government with elemental that this executive order is of this body declined to sign a pledge respect to sexual orientation. the least thing to do. that sexual orientation is not and It is time for Congress to stand up for So I urge that the amendment be de- would not be a consideration in the em- the basic American value of a worker feated. The President should be com- ployment practices in their congres- or anyone else being judged in the mended for the executive order. I urge sional offices. Let us start there. workplace on the basis of job perform- my colleagues to reject the Hefley For many gay Americans, losing a ance, not on an irrelevant factor, amendment. job is the least of it. Some statistics to whether that irrelevant factor be race Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I reflect on, if you believe that gay men or color or creed or religion or national move to strike the requisite number of and women are not discriminated origin or sex or gender or sexual ori- words. against: In 1995, 29 men and women entation. Mr. Chairman, I want to compliment were murder victims either because Poll after poll has shown overwhelm- the gentleman from Arizona for offer- they were gay, or some thug at least ing support in the American public for ing this amendment. While I cannot thought they were gay. In 1996, the FBI the basic premise that lesbian and gay support it, I appreciate his effort to en- reported over 1,000 hate crimes moti- workers should be treated fairly in the sure that Members have the oppor- vated by sexual orientation. workplace. One poll recently indicated tunity to vote on the federalism issue The evidence is clear, unequivocal that 80 percent of the American public alone, so that when the debate comes and overwhelming: Discrimination believes that homosexuals should have in the next amendment, the amend- against gay men and women exists in equal rights in terms of job opportuni- ment of the gentleman from Colorado our society. Let us remember, when a ties. It is elementary, Mr. Chairman, (Mr. HEFLEY), it will not color that qualified person is denied an oppor- that people should be treated fairly and particular debate, because it is my un- tunity because of discrimination, we equally regardless of factors over derstanding that the Hefley amend- all lose. We lose the benefits that we which they have no control, such as ment was rewritten at the last moment might have gained from that individ- race or color or creed or national ori- to also prohibit implementation of the ual’s services. And, even more impor- gin or sex or sexual orientation. executive order on federalism but it tantly, when we tolerate discrimina- Mr. Chairman, we talk a lot here really was not about Federalism, it was tion against anyone or any group, we about American ideals and American about denying Federal workers protec- are diminished as a society and as a values, and one of the chief American tion from discrimination based upon Nation, and this Chamber ought not to values was set forth in the Declaration sexual orientation. So I thank the gen- be about division and discrimination. of Independence, where it says we hold tleman from Arizona (Mr. KOLBE), who So I would submit we are simply bet- these truths to be self-evident, that all allows Members who want to express ter than that. Let us prove it tonight. men are created equal, that they are their views on that subject to do so Let us defeat the Kolbe amendment endowed with certain inalienable without voting for the Hefley amend- and the Hefley amendment. rights, and so forth. ment. Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I ask The history of the United States is a The executive order is not about spe- unanimous consent that all debate on history of the expansion of the defini- cial rights, it is about equal rights; and this amendment and all amendments August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7253 thereto close in 15 minutes, and that which contains the material of the clear that the Federal Government the time be equally divided. Kolbe amendment but also goes beyond does not discriminate on the basis of The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection that material. sexual orientation. to the request of the gentleman from In the difference between the two, I voted for welfare reform because I Kentucky? the Hefley amendment is an attack believe work is a healthy, responsible, There was no objection. upon all our friends in the gay and les- fulfilling, and necessary commitment PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY bian community. The Hefley amend- in life. Why should Republicans, who Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I have ment is one more example of un- fought so hard to open up work for wel- a parliamentary inquiry. abashed homophobia on the part of fare recipients, now vote to deny work The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will some Members of this body. to a dedicated, capable, high quality state it. Nondiscrimination in the workplace person because of that person’s per- Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, does for gays and lesbians is fundamental. sonal, private choice regarding friends this relate solely to Kolbe amendment? Yet, under current Federal law it is and partners? The CHAIRMAN. That is correct. perfectly legal to fire a person from Have Members ever sat and visited Mr. KUCINICH. And not the Hefley their job in 40 States because of their with the parents of a gay and lesbian amendment or any other amendment? sexual orientation, and that alone. No young person? They will tell you, they The CHAIRMAN. This relates to just person should have their work judged loved their baby. They cared for their the Kolbe amendment at hand. or their opportunity to work denied on child. They have saved their money The gentleman from Arizona (Mr. the basis of anything but their ability and educated their daughter or son, and they are proud that their child is a KOLBE) will control 71⁄2 minutes and a to successfully perform their job. good, effective worker. All they are Member in opposition will control 71⁄2 We should not be misled that non- minutes. discrimination in civilian Federal em- asking of government is that we not The Chair recognizes the gentleman ployment for gays and lesbians is allow an employer to arbitrarily fire or arbitrarily deny a promotion to some- from Arizona (Mr. KOLBE). somehow granting special or unique Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 rights. Nondiscrimination in employ- one who is working hard and doing a minutes to the gentleman from Con- ment is already assured to Americans, good job. We certainly owe at least that much, necticut (Mr. SHAYS). regardless of race, color, religion, eth- nicity, gender, handicap, age. Those equal opportunity, to every American. b 1930 Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I are not special or unique rights, they have accepted the responsibility to Mr. SHAYS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in are fundamental. Job performance and manage this time technically in oppo- support of the Kolbe amendment, job performance alone should be the sition to the Kolbe amendment. I am which prohibits funds from being spent measure of success in the civil service. not in opposition to the Kolbe amend- to implement the President’s Execu- By adopting the Hefley amendment, ment, and if there is somebody now tive Order 13083 on federalism. which would deny gays and lesbians who would like to manage the time I rise to support this amendment be- the nondiscrimination policy afforded who is against the Kolbe amendment, I cause I believe that this President’s to everyone else, this House would de- would certainly yield this time to Executive Order should be repealed. liberately encourage job discrimina- This amendment also gives us the op- them. tion against gays and lesbians. The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman tion to oppose the Hefley amendment, History has been unkind, Mr. Chair- from West Virginia (Mr. MOLLOHAN) which repeals both Executive Order man, to those who have tried to stop ask unanimous consent to control the 13083 on federalism and the Executive the march towards equality. All of us time in opposition? Order on nondiscrimination based on have family, friends, or acquaintances Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I sexual orientation, 13087. who are gay. They are Republicans or ask unanimous consent to control the Therefore, I support the Kolbe Democrats, doctors and lawyers, teach- time in opposition to the amendment. amendment and I oppose the Hefley ers and corporate CEOs, our brothers The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection amendment, because the Hefley amend- and sisters, our daughters and sons. to the request of the gentleman from ment does more than the Kolbe amend- To those who insist on continuing job West Virginia? ment. It repeals the Executive Order on discrimination against the gay commu- There was no objection. nondiscrimination based on sexual ori- nity, I urge them, do not be on the Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I entation. wrong side of history. Let us defeat the yield 11⁄2 minutes to the gentlewoman I do not believe we should discrimi- Hefley amendment. Vote no on the from New York (Mrs. MALONEY). nate. I do not believe we should dis- Hefley amendment and for the Kolbe Mrs. MALONEY of New York. Mr. criminate based on someone’s sexual amendment. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the preference. I think it is irrelevant, I Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 Kolbe and Hefley amendment. The think it is wrong, and I speak strongly minutes to the gentlewoman from Con- United States is an inclusive country. in my outrage that some on my side of necticut (Mrs. JOHNSON). It is built upon the thoughts, beliefs, the aisle, my leaders in particular, Mrs. JOHNSON of Connecticut. Mr. practices, of many countries. I am al- have sought to make this a political Chairman, I thank the gentleman from most embarrassed that any Member of issue. Arizona for yielding time to me, and I Congress would attempt such a slap in The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman rise in strong support of his amend- the face against any one segment of from West Virginia (Mr. MOLLOHAN) ment to prohibit the implementation the American population. seek time in opposition to this amend- of federalism order 13083, which is an Do gay people not pay taxes? Do gay ment? extraordinary extension of Federal au- people not participate in this Nation’s Mr. MOLLOHAN. Yes, I do, Mr. thority, and an order developed with- economic growth? Do gay people not Chairman. out any collaboration with the States make creative, intelligent, thoughtful, The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman for the purposes of governing Federal- and important contributions to Amer- from West Virginia (Mr. MOLLOHAN) is State relations. There is certainly a ica as a whole? Why would we then sin- recognized for 7 and a half minutes. better way to do it, a better process gle them out as a particular group not Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I and a better outcome, and I rise in worthy of common courtesy, decency, yield 2 minutes to the distinguished strong support of the Kolbe amend- and fairness? gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. ment. Two hundred and forty-five Members OLVER). I also appreciate the fact that the of this House and 65 Senators have in Mr. OLVER. Mr. Chairman, I thank Kolbe amendment is focused on fed- place proper nondiscrimination poli- the gentleman for yielding me the eralism order 13083 and does not in- cies. More than half of the Fortune 500 time. clude federalism order 13087. As the companies have similar policies in Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the chief executive of the Federal civilian place. The Federal Government should Kolbe amendment and in opposition to work force, it is absolutely within the not be the exception. In fact, it should the Hefley amendment which follows, President’s responsibility to make be setting the right example. H7254 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 No one is asking for any special dreams and aspirations of the Declara- Mr. Chairman, I encourage all of my privileges, quotas, or preferences. The tion of Independence, that says we are fair-minded colleagues to stand on the President’s Executive Order asks only all created equal, with certain inalien- right side of history. for basic human rights for everyone. It able rights of life, liberty, and the pur- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I am simply clarifies existing non- suit of happiness. pleased to yield 1 minute to the distin- discrimination policies of Federal Seventy-two percent of our Nation’s guished gentleman from Massachusetts agencies and offices. I urge a no vote citizens that were polled in the Wall (Mr. MEEHAN). against both amendments. Street Journal support President Clin- Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I want Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 ton’s anti-gay bias in Federal agencies, to speak to an issue of individual lib- minute to the gentleman from Florida which simply means, you cannot be erty, an issue at the heart of the (Mr. STEARNS). fired. amendment offered by my friend, the Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I In 1997 the American Psychological gentleman from Arizona (Mr. KOLBE). thank my colleague for yielding time Association report found that many Specifically, I want to talk about the to me. employers openly admit they would liberty to pursue any field of employ- Mr. Chairman, on September 18, 1996, discriminate against a homosexual em- ment at which one excels. President Clinton sat on the South ployee. Just a couple of weeks ago I Some people around here seem to be- Side of the Grand Canyon in Arizona, held in my district a hearing on the lieve that this liberty should not exist where he commandeered 1.7 million Hate Crimes Prevention Act. The out- with respect to gays, lesbians and acres in Utah. The citizens and elected pouring of tears and hurt that was evi- bisexuals. This belief is so misguided, officials of Utah were shocked, without denced by those who experienced in the so contrary to our Nation’s ideals, and any advance notice and without asking gay and lesbian community outright so outside the mainstream, that its for input, that the President took away hatred and discrimination, outright vi- proponents have felt the need to justify a whole chunk of land the size of Dela- olence; the actual pain of a man who it with untruth after red herring after ware and Rhode Island. was not gay, who was perceived to be misrepresentation. Frankly, Mr. Chairman, the White gay, who was beaten brutally; the abso- We hear that forbidding discrimina- House is busy expanding its powers lute violence against someone in my tion against Federal civilian workers throughout the Nation at the expense district who went into a bar to have a on the basis of their sexual orientation of State and local governments. So I simple, friendly drink, and he was beat- grants special rights to homosexuals. think what the gentleman from Ari- en to death. So we are not talking, Mr. We hear that forbidding such discrimi- zona (Mr. KOLBE) is trying to do is pro- Chairman, about giving away the store. nation protects misconduct on the job. hibit, through his amendment, the exe- I imagine it is equal to the debate we I half expect to soon hear that protect- cution of the Executive Order 13083. had on the 13th and 14th Amendment in ing gays and lesbians from discrimina- For those who keep talking about the the 1800’s. I wonder if I had been a sim- tion in the workplace is responsible for Hefley amendment, this has nothing to ple fly on the wall, what someone global warming and ethnic conflict in do with the Hefley amendment. I ap- would have said about African-Ameri- the Middle East. All of these claims are preciate what they are trying to do. cans not being freed in this country. designed to distract us from the key Frankly, I support the Hefley amend- This is a disgrace on America, it is a question at hand. ment, but I also support the Kolbe disgrace on this flag, and both of these b 1945 amendment, and also believe that the amendments should be defeated. President has to realize that all the Do Members believe it is acceptable Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I Governors do not support what he is for gays and lesbians and bisexuals who yield 1 minute to the distinguished doing, either through his Executive Or- perform their jobs well to be fired from gentlewoman from California (Ms. ders. We will have to wait to see if he their jobs solely on the basis of their LEE). is actually going to rescind these Exec- sexual orientation? I say absolutely utive Orders or not. Ms. LEE. Mr. Chairman, I rise today not. I stand up in support of the Kolbe to speak in strong opposition to any Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield amendment and in support of the amendment which would pave the way myself the balance of my time. Hefley amendment. for continued discrimination against Mr. Chairman, a couple of things Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I am gay and lesbian Federal employees. that I want to clarify. Earlier the gen- pleased to yield 2 minutes to the dis- When President Clinton passed Exec- tleman from Massachusetts (Mr. tinguished gentlewoman from Texas utive Order 13087, he did so with the FRANK) referred to the amendment of- (Ms. JACKSON-LEE). support of the vast majority of Ameri- fered by the gentleman from Florida Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. cans who believe, as I do, that an em- (Mr. SCARBOROUGH). That amendment Chairman, I thank the distinguished ployer should not be allowed to fire gay was offered last week on VA–HUD deal- chairman for yielding me the time. and lesbian employees simply because ing with the Federalism issue. That I rise to oppose both amendments of their sexual orientation. Nonethe- was absolutely correct. pending here on the floor of the House. less, some in America have worked The gentleman from Massachusetts I ask my friend, the gentleman from hard to prevent gays and lesbians from went on to say how this is a stake Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY), does he dis- receiving the same basic protections through the heart, that we are going to criminate, and would he be willing to that most Americans enjoy and take drive it through again and again and acknowledge under oath or on the floor for granted. again. of the United States Congress that he As a black woman who was forbidden There is a difference between what willingly and openly discriminates? from enrolling in public schools be- was offered last week and this one. My Would he ask the President of the cause of the color of my skin, I am es- amendment makes it clear that no United States to openly and willingly pecially troubled to witness this divi- funds in this or any other act; while discriminate against people within the sive, unfair, and un-American attack the amendment last week applied only boundaries of this Nation? on the civil rights of our fellow citizens to the single bill under consideration— This is a ludicrous and outrageous and our constituents. VA–HUD—this applies to any funds discussion that we are having today. In a very high profile case in 1991 that are appropriated in any act. So Flying in the face of equality and op- Cracker Barrel Restaurants fired sev- this really does cover the whole issue portunity, we want to deny those who eral gay employees simply because of Federalism. It puts it to rest once are gays and lesbians the rights to a they were gay. The employees had no and for all. simple job. I would like the gentleman legal recourse, because, according to Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. from Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY) to travel the laws at that point and now, dis- Chairman, will the gentleman yield? with me and meet with the organiza- crimination against gay and lesbian Mr. KOLBE. I yield to the gentleman tion P-FLAG, Parents of Gays and Les- Americans is totally legal. Right now from Massachusetts. bians; parents who work every day, it is legal to discriminate against gays Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. who simply want for their children the and lesbians in 40 of our States. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7255 making that correction. I want to ac- The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Speaker, could knowledge that the gentleman does PEASE). The question is on the amend- we see a copy of the modified amend- stand as the superior executioner of ment offered by gentleman from Ari- ment? this particular dragon. zona (Mr. KOLBE). Mr. ROGERS. It is being delivered to Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I thank The amendment was agreed to. the gentleman as I speak. the gentleman for recognizing my Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I move Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Speaker, con- skills in that area. that the Committee do now rise. tinuing my reservation of objection, we I also want to correct one comment The motion was agreed to. have just had an opportunity to look at that was made, I think erroneously, by Accordingly the Committee rose; and this. It is considerably different than the gentleman from New York (Mr. the Speaker pro tempore (Mr. previous versions. We would like an op- NADLER) when he was speaking not GILCHREST) having assumed the chair, portunity to reserve judgment on this about this amendment in particular Mr. PEASE, Chairman pro tempore of amendment and this UC, pending a re- but about the amendment which is the Committee of the Whole House on view. going to be offered by the gentleman the State of the Union, reported that If the gentleman wants to move for- ward quickly on the UC, maybe we can from Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY) and which that Committee, having had under con- includes this provision on Federalism. sideration the bill (H.R. 4276) making pull this out, look at it and deal with The gentleman from New York made appropriations for the Departments of this in a few minutes. We can come back to it as soon as we have a chance reference to the fact that defeat of this Commerce, Justice, and State, the Ju- to review it, which we have not had a amendment could be a step towards ex- diciary, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 1999, chance to do. panding rights for individuals who are Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Speaker, the only homosexual. and for other purposes, had come to no resolution thereon. difficulty is, this must be done in the This act, this executive order has full House, which we will not be in f nothing, nothing to do with that. It has shortly. only to do with the hiring practices of LIMITING AMENDMENTS AND DE- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Speaker, as we Federal employment managers. It does BATE TIME DURING FURTHER move forward on this or at the time we not give anybody a right to sue. It does CONSIDERATION OF H.R. 4276, DE- get to it, perhaps we can make an not give anybody a right to go to the PARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, agreement. EEOC or the Civil Rights Commission. JUSTICE, AND STATE, AND JUDI- Mr. ROGERS. I would point out to It does not grant any right which is not CIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES the gentleman, we are under an open in law now. It does not create any pro- APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1999, IN rule. tected class. It in no way expands any THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Speaker, I fully rights whatsoever. This only codifies appreciate that, but I am having ex- what are currently the employment Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Speaker, I ask pressions of concern by Members who practices now in the Federal agencies unanimous consent that during the fur- are interested in this amendment. I and codifies them in a single place. It ther consideration of H.R. 4276 in the think we can resolve it and agree to it does nothing to change the law as it Committee of the Whole, pursuant to when we get down to it. I just cannot exists today. H. Res. 508: no amendment shall be in include that in the UC right now. Let me come back to the Federalism order thereto except for the following Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Speaker, if the issue here. I mentioned earlier that the amendments, which shall be considered gentleman will continue to yield, what chief of staff of the White House said it as read, shall not be subject to amend- I am asking is, could the gentleman was a mistake. ‘‘We screwed up,’’ that ment or to a demand for a division of agree that whatever the amendment is, was his quote there. And good reason the question in the House or in the that the time limit would be 20 min- that he said that, because indeed, when Committee of the Whole, and shall be utes as the UC states? President Reagan issued his executive debatable for the time specified, equal- Mr. MOLLOHAN. No, Mr. Speaker, I order on affirmative action in 1987, he ly divided and controlled by the pro- cannot. I understand the proposal, and took several specific steps, steps that ponent and a Member opposed thereto: I simply suggest to the gentleman that Mr. HEFLEY of Colorado, the amend- placed the onus on Federal agencies to until Members who have an interest in ment made in order under the rule, for consult the Constitution to make cer- this have an opportunity to review it, I 20 minutes; tain that ‘‘an action does not encroach cannot agree to the time limit as set Mr. SAXTON of New Jersey, a limita- upon the authority reserved for the forth in the UC. We could break that tion regarding foreign assets litigation, States.’’ out and when we get down to it, I am for 10 minutes; He made sure that it said that they sure we could work something out for Mr. HOLDEN of Pennsylvania, amend- Members who are interested in the must adhere to the notion that Federal ment numbered 23, for 5 minutes; actions are not superior to State ac- amendment. Mr. STEARNS of Florida, numbered 35, Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Speaker, I would tions and that exemptions to Federal for 5 minutes; regulations should be granted on that withdraw the unanimous consent re- Mr. MCINTOSH of Indiana, either No. quest until a further time, but while basis. 50 or an amendment regarding the That same Reagan Executive Order we are in the full House, could I pro- Standing Consultative Committee, for pose that the debate on the Hefley also said that ‘‘Federal regulations 20 minutes; should not preempt State law unless amendment be limited to 20 minutes? And Mr. KUCINICH of Ohio, numbered Mr. MOLLOHAN. I believe it is lim- the statute contains an express pre- 49, under the 5-minute rule; ited under the rule, Mr. Speaker. emption provision or there is some And that the managers of the bill The SPEAKER pro tempore. The other firm and palpable evidence that may make pro forma amendments to Hefley amendment already is 20 min- the Congress intended preemption of strike the last word for the purpose of utes under the rule. State law.’’ engaging in colloquies. Does the gentleman withdraw his re- Let me just conclude by saying this The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there quest? executive order from President Clinton objection to the request of the gen- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Speaker, I with- is quite different than that previously tleman from Kentucky? draw the unanimous consent request. issued. It fundamentally alters the Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Speaker, re- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Speaker, I Federal relationship that has been de- serving the right to object, I ask the withdraw my reservation of objection. veloped through the years. These gentleman to give us a clarification of f changes were made without consulta- the McIntosh amendment. I do not be- tion with governors, mayors, or county lieve that we have seen that. DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, commissioners. We should make it Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Speaker, if the JUSTICE, AND STATE, AND JUDI- clear that this revision should not be gentleman will yield, it is either num- CIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES the law of the land. bered 50, or we understand there could APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1999 I urge an ‘‘aye’’ vote on the amend- be a different version of that that The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursu- ment. would be offered. ant to House Resolution 508 and rule H7256 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 XXIII, the Chair declares the House in going after the misuse of two executive The Nixon order further provides the Committee of the Whole House on orders, but we will be back to go after that the head of each executive depart- the State of the Union for the further others. ment and agency shall establish and consideration of the bill, H.R. 4276. The first executive order, issued on maintain an affirmative program of May 14, virtually ignores the Tenth b 1955 equal employment opportunity for all Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. civilian employees. IN THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE This executive order, titled Federal- Accordingly the House resolved itself ism, establishes broad and ambiguous b 2000 into the Committee of the Whole House circumstances in which the Federal on the State of the Union for the fur- Government could intervene in matters Now, CRS says that that means af- ther consideration of the bill (H.R. that have traditionally been left to firmative action program. History 4276) making appropriations for the De- State and local governments. shows us that this means quotas and partments of Commerce, Justice, and This executive order, which reverses set-asides to measure whether they State, the Judiciary, and related agen- a 1987 executive order by President have an affirmative program. cies for the fiscal year ending Septem- Ronald Reagan, is nothing more than a Mr. Chairman, by amending the ber 30, 1999, and for other purposes, power grab from the States. Adding in- Nixon order, President Clinton’s Exec- with Mr. HASTINGS of Washington in sult to injury, the administration utive Order does, in fact, expand our the chair. never consulted the major organiza- country’s civil rights laws as they The Clerk read the title of the bill. tions that represent State and local apply to Federal employees. This is a The CHAIRMAN. When the Commit- government officials and entities. The flagrant misapplication of Presidential tee of the Whole rose earlier today, executive order greatly impacts those power. The creation of Federal law or amendment No. 19 offered by the gen- constituencies and yet they were never amending Federal law is the power tleman from Arizona (Mr. KOLBE) had consulted or warned. properly invested in the legislative been disposed of, and the bill was open The President says that he will sus- branch. Congress was ignored, and we for amendment from page 115, line 23 pend that executive order and rewrite have spoken many times about this ef- through page 124, line 2. it, but ‘‘suspend’’ is very different from fort. Furthermore, the administration’s AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. HEFLEY ‘‘revoke’’. The President issued another execu- own leading civil rights official was Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, I offer not consulted. In testimony before the an amendment. tive order in May that would amend the Nation’s civil rights laws as they House Subcommittee on the Constitu- The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- tion of the Committee on the Judici- ignate the amendment. pertain to Federal civilian employees. This executive order would require all ary, Acting Assistant Attorney General The text of the amendment is as fol- for Civil Rights Bill Lann Lee admitted lows: Federal agencies to apply affirmative action policies on the basis of sexual that neither he nor his staff had re- Amendment printed in House Report 105– orientation. viewed, approved or been consulted on 641 offered by Mr. HEFLEY: the decision to add sexual orientation At the end of the bill, insert after the last This action amends President Rich- section (preceding the short title) the follow- ard Nixon’s 1969 executive order by to the Federal affirmative action laws. ing: adding sexual orientation to the race, Mr. Chairman, we need to stop this TITLE IX—ADDITIONAL GENERAL color, religion, sex, disability, age, and President, who is trying to legislate PROVISIONS national origin as classes of Federal and govern by executive fiat. While my SEC. 901.—None of the funds made available employees which are entitled to affirm- amendment alone will not overrule the in this or any other Act may be used to im- ative action programs. President’s orders, it will help restore plement, administer, or enforce Executive This amendment that I am offering the current Federal policies regarding Order 13087 of May 28, 1998 (63 Fed. Reg. 30097) tonight, in spite of all that was said on Federalism and affirmative action and or Executive Order 13083 of May 14, 1998 (63 the previous amendment, is not about nondiscrimination. Fed. Reg. 27651). homosexuality. This amendment is not Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House about discrimination, as the gentleman of my time. Resolution 508, the gentleman from from California (Mr. CAMPBELL) said in Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY), and a Member his comments on the previous amend- Chairman, I yield 21⁄4 minutes to the opposed, each will control 10 minutes. ment. We have Federal law which says gentleman from California (Mr. ROHR- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. you cannot discriminate. No one is en- ABACHER). Chairman, I rise in opposition and couraging discrimination here. Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Chairman, claim the 10 minutes in opposition. It is about the misuse of the execu- I got all the prosecutors mad at me The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman tive order process. The process is not earlier; I might as well get everybody from Massachusetts (Mr. FRANK) will designed to circumvent the Congress. else mad at me. be recognized for 10 minutes. This President has tried repeatedly to Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to The Chair recognizes the gentleman come to Congress and add a special set- my good friend, and he is my good from Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY). aside or carve-out for sexual orienta- friend, the gentleman from Colorado Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield tion in the civil rights laws. Congress (Mr. HEFLEY). We probably have a vot- myself such time as I may consume. has repeatedly said no. Now the Presi- ing record that is so equivalent that we Earlier this year Bill Clinton issued dent just goes around us. That is what almost never disagree, but I do dis- two executive orders that mandate pro- this is about. agree with him on this amendment. found policy changes. Neither of these Supporters of the executive order I do so because, after close examina- executive orders received public input argue that the President’s mandate tion, I have determined that the Clin- and as a result, both orders contained only prohibits discrimination based on ton Executive Order, 13087, will not policy decisions which, if left unchal- sexual orientation in the Federal civil- lead to quotas or affirmative action lenged, will have far-reaching implica- ian work force. I support efforts to ban plans for homosexuality; nor will this tions. I oppose these orders and am of- discrimination, but this executive Executive Order give homosexuals any fering an amendment that would pro- order does much more than simply ad- special rights or a protected status hibit the use of funds to implement, en- dress discrimination policies. under the Civil Rights Act. Some of the force or administer either of these or- President Nixon’s executive order set others who spoke earlier, who tried to ders. forth the policy of government of the indicate that, did not know what they This President has issued 254 orders United States to promote the full real- were talking about, and they should since he has been President of the ization of equal employment oppor- read what we are referring to here. United States. Other Presidents have tunity through, and listen, I quote, It simply states that the Federal overdone it, too. I think it is time Con- through a continuing affirmative pro- Government, this Executive Order, will gress questioned his use of the execu- gram in each executive department and not consider sexual orientation when tive order process. Tonight we are agency. making hiring, firing and promotion August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7257 decisions. And homosexuals are tax- Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon. The President’s executive orders payers, too, and deserve an even break ‘‘The principles of a free constitution strengthens our Nation’s commitment in terms of fairness in employment in a are irrevocably lost when the legisla- to equality. It bans discrimination Federal Government that they pay tive power is dominated by the execu- based on sexual orientation. It is a sim- taxes to. There is no reason for the tive branch.’’ Now, this is right from ple thing to do. It is the right thing to Federal Government to discriminate history, 2000 years ago, so I suggest we do. for or against individuals of whatever listen to it. Why? Why must we come to this sexual preference in civilian employ- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. floor again and again to demand equal- ment. In fact, the Federal Government Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gen- ity for all Americans? What could be has no need to inquire into this aspect tleman from Virginia (Mr. BLILEY), an more American? It is unbelievable to of a Federal employee’s private life. eminent historian. me that 33 years after Selma and the Mr. Chairman, I am firmly commit- Mr. BLILEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank signing of the Voting Rights Act we ted to protecting the rights of those the gentleman from Massachusetts for must still battle the forces of bigotry, with strong moral or religious objec- yielding me this time, whom I might discrimination and intolerance. I have tions to homosexuality, and I resent add, when I was a freshman and he was fought too long and too hard against some of the statements made here ear- a freshman, and I had an amendment discrimination all of my life to go back lier that people who believe or who are on the floor, he supported me against now. We cannot go back. We will not go against homosexuality for religious the chairman of the Subcommittee on back. We must never go back. I urge all of my colleagues to stand reasons are some kind of bigots or Health and Environment of the Com- for fairness, stand for justice, stand up whatever. They have every right to mittee on Commerce, and I appreciate for what is right. Oppose discrimina- those religious and moral beliefs and that. tion and vote against this misguided But, look, I oppose affirmative ac- they should not be forced or pressured amendment. to accept something that they believe tion. I think it divides us rather than Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 is immoral. joins us. I would oppose any effort to minute to the gentleman from Texas That is the reason I supported the add sexual orientation as a protected (Mr. DELAY). Riggs amendment to the VA-HUD ap- class under the Federal affirmative ac- Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I rise in propriations bill that is using Federal tion programs. That being said, I un- support of the Hefley amendment and funds to threaten these people into ac- equivocally oppose discrimination. urge my colleagues to support it, and cepting that a local domestic partner When I hire somebody in my office, because I only have 1 minute, I am law was wrong, just as adding sexual as I suspect most of my colleagues going to try to condense my points as orientation as a category to civil when they hire somebody in their of- quickly as possible. rights is wrong. fice, I do not ask their sexual orienta- This is not really an issue, in my That is not what this amendment is tion when I hire them. I feel that if a mind, of sexual orientation or not. all about, however. In short, the gov- person can do the job and give me an There are two basic issues here: One is ernment should neither persecute ho- honest day’s work for a day’s pay, that this President of the United States is mosexuals nor promote homosexuality. is all I have to ask, unless, in his off legislating by Executive Order. He has That is a fair and honest standard, and time or her off time, they do something instructed the entire bureaucracy to that is why I oppose the Hefley amend- that brings disgrace on this great insti- promulgate regulations that have no ment. tution or on my office. Then that is an- authority in law, and he is writing ex- Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 other matter. ecutive order after executive order minute to the gentleman from Florida I hope we will oppose this ill-guided against the Constitution of the United (Mr. STEARNS). amendment. States and the concept of checks and (Mr. STEARNS asked and was given If the Executive Order issued by President balances. permission to revise and extend his re- Clinton mandated affirmative action based on Under our Constitution, the Presi- marks.) sexual orientation, I would support the Hefley dent cannot legislate by executive Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, the amendment. This is not the case. order, and he is doing so. The gen- gentleman from California (Mr. ROHR- All the Executive order says is the Federal tleman from Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY) is ABACHER) gave his speech, and I have government will not discriminate based upon a trying to strike down some executive great respect for him, but I ask him person's sexual orientation. orders to bring attention to the Amer- later to come back and define what I urge my colleagues to oppose the Hefley ican people that he is doing so. sexual orientation is. I am not sure he Amendment. The sexual orientation of our It is, therefore, conceivable that the can define it, or anyone else in this Federal employees is none of our business. implementation of this particular exec- House, yet the President, in Executive Qualifications for the job should be our con- utive order might require that the Fed- Order 13087, adds behavioral character- cernÐnothing more, nothing less. eral Government inquire into the pri- istics of sexual orientation to the im- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. vate lives and practices of Federal em- mutable characteristics of race, color, Chairman, how much time is remaining ployees to accurately assess their sex- religion, sex, and national origin, even on both sides? ual orientations. Now, most Americans believe that though the term sexual orientation has The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman every human being has basic rights, never really been defined. from Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY) has 4 min- and the American people stand for fair- Now, what the gentleman from Colo- utes remaining, and the gentleman ness, not for special breaks or special rado (Mr. HEFLEY) is trying to do is he from Massachusetts (Mr. FRANK) has 1 interests. is trying to roll back some of these ex- 6 ⁄2 minutes remaining. I support the Hefley amendment. ecutives orders from the President. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. 1 Whenever he feels he has to, he starts Chairman, I yield 1 ⁄2 minutes to the Chairman, I yield myself 15 seconds. to move his agenda through an Execu- gentleman from Georgia (Mr. LEWIS) in Mr. Chairman, first, I must say, with tive Order. His proposals make social the interest of fairness. all regret to my friend, the gentleman reforms that he deems necessary de- Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. Mr. Chair- from Texas (Mr. DELAY), probably no spite the will of this body. And the gen- man, during the Civil Rights move- more hugs for awhile. tleman from Colorado is saying tonight ment, thousands upon thousands of Secondly, the President has explic- that let us stop funding these executive Americans joined together for a single itly disavowed any intention of this orders. That is all he is trying to say. cause: To fight discrimination and leading to this kind of inquiry based on This is not a debate about anything have all Americans treated equally sexual orientation. Under the existing other than to try to stop the President under the law. Discrimination was not executive order, it covers religion, it from issuing executive orders that go right then and it is not right now. Ex- covers AIDS. There have been no such against the will of Congress. cluding someone from the workplace inquiries. Let me just give my colleagues a because of their sexual orientation is Mr. Chairman, I yield 11⁄2 minutes to thought in closing, and this is from the discrimination, plain and simple. It is the gentleman from North Carolina History of the Decline and Fall of the wrong. It is dead wrong. (Mr. HEFNER). H7258 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 Mr. HEFNER. Mr. Chairman, as I provided to women, to disabled seniors, Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, I thank look around this room I see only a cou- racial, ethnic, religious minorities by the gentleman for yielding the time. ple of people that are older than I am, an executive order that was issued by When one has been in this business and I want to talk about discrimina- President Nixon in 1969. for a little while, one learns that if one tion. I know discrimination when I see The executive order does not provide does not really have much going for discrimination. any special protected status to gay and them on the merits, they argue proc- When I was a small boy, growing up lesbian employees. It simply protects ess. And so, I understand why my in rural Alabama, we used to go to the the fundamental right to be judged on friend the gentleman from Colorado grocery store. Some of my black one’s own merits. (Mr. HEFLEY) is styling this as a ques- friends, they would stand at the back This is a policy that is embraced by tion of an overreaching of executive door and the clerk would have to come over 300 Members of the House and the order powers. Senate who have stated in writing that and ask them what they wanted and PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY sexual orientation is not a consider- they would bring it to them. I could go Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, par- in the front door. That is discrimina- ation in the hiring, promoting or ter- minating of an employee in their con- liamentary inquiry. tion. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will gressional offices, and the executive I have never been in the marches like state his parliamentary inquiry. order simply applies the same policy to the gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Point Federal agencies. LEWIS) has been. I do not know what it Most Federal agencies, incidentally, of order, Mr. Chairman. The gentleman is like to be in the minority. I do not already have their own policies pre- does not have to yield. It is up to the know the life-style of gay people, but I venting employment discrimination gentleman with the microphone to can tell you this: Discrimination is based on sexual orientation, and yield for a parliamentary inquiry. wrong. It is totally wrong and we through this revised executive order Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, I have a should not be participating in anything the President has properly provided a parliamentary inquiry. that discriminates against anybody uniform policy for all agencies. Mr. SKAGGS. Regular order, Mr. going out and making a living for their Chairman. family. b 2015 Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. It is absolutely ludicrous for us to be The executive order applies only to Chairman, the gentleman has not considering this amendment tonight, Federal civilian employees. yielded for a parliamentary inquiry. because it is about discrimination, Our country is founded on a basic The CHAIRMAN. Would the gen- pure and simple discrimination. tenet that all individuals should be tleman from Colorado (Mr. SKAGGS) Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 treated equally and fairly. Vote yield for a parliamentary inquiry? minute to the gentleman from Ala- against the Hefley amendment. Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, if it bama (Mr. RILEY). Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, how does not count against my time. Mr. RILEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise in much time do we have remaining on The CHAIRMAN. It does count strong support of the Hefley amend- both sides? against the gentleman’s time. ment. The extension of new civil rights The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Mr. SKAGGS. Then I do not yield. deserves to be debated openly, before from Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY) has 2 min- Mr. Chairman, continuing, what this the American people, and not imple- utes remaining. The gentleman from is really about on the merits is wheth- mented by an executive order. Massachusetts (Mr. FRANK) has 23⁄4 er we want a country in which all I believe that all Americans should minutes remaining. Americans have access to fair employ- receive fair and equal treatment under Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 ment treatment by their Federal Gov- the law, but I fundamentally oppose minute to the gentleman from Penn- ernment. It is as simple as that. granting special rights or privilege sylvania (Mr. PITTS). It is not about quotas, not about af- based on sexual orientation. The new Mr. PITTS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in firmative action. It is about whether or executive order undermines the en- support of the Hefley amendment. not we get judged on the merits of the The President’s position is an ex- forcement of legitimate civil rights kind of job we can do. treme special interest position. He has based on immutable characteristics I think it is entirely proper for the taken the back-door approach, not that have been established as requiring chief executive officer of the Federal going through the legislative process. protection. branch of the Government, the Presi- We should maintain the proper balance Furthermore, this executive order dent, to make clear that that is the between the legislative and executive would be an administrative nightmare. standard for this Federal Government, branches of government. It could require Federal employees to President Clinton is out of step with for the executive branch. He is the ask applicants what their sexual ori- the majority of Americans who oppose CEO. It is clearly within his authority. entation is. The thought of that is quotas based on one’s behavior or life- And what kind of country do we real- wrong and it is also unconstitutional. style. This executive order would have ly want? Do we really want to make it This executive order does not create an impact on the private sector. Com- permissible for this to be the basis for equal employment. It creates an unnec- panies seeking to contract with the the denial of jobs by the Federal Gov- essary, unwarranted and unconstitu- Federal Government or grant recipi- ernment to our fellow citizens? I hope tional preference in the workplace. ents would be required to submit to not. Mr. Chairman, I do not believe the this new Federal edict. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman American people support the granting To protect themselves from costly from Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY) has 1 of a special privilege and I urge my col- lawsuits, companies will have the bur- minute remaining. The gentleman leagues to defeat the executive order den of proving that they do not dis- from Massachusetts (Mr. FRANK) has and vote for the Hefley amendment. criminate on the basis of sexual ori- 13⁄4 minutes remaining. The gentleman Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. entation. from Colorado has the right to close. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gen- What the President has done is ex- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. tlewoman from Maryland (Mrs. tend the hand of the Federal Govern- Chairman, I yield the remaining time MORELLA). ment to an interest group with a pow- to the gentleman from California (Mr. (Mrs. MORELLA asked and was given erful, well-funded lobby, an interest CAMPBELL), a constitutional scholar permission to revise and extend her re- group that believes that non-job-relat- who opposes discrimination and also marks.) ed behavior should be the deciding fac- opposes affirmative action and will Mrs. MORELLA. Mr. Chairman, I rise tor in hiring or promotion policies in point out the difference as embodied in in strong opposition to the Hefley our Government. this executive order. amendment. Let us support the Hefley amend- Mr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Chairman, I Let us be very clear, folks. This Ex- ment. thank the gentleman for yielding. ecutive Order 13087 simply extends to Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. The Executive order’s prohibition gay and lesbian employees the very Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gen- that I profoundly believe in goes to the same employment protections long tleman from Colorado (Mr. SKAGGS). question of fairness, that we ought not August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7259 discriminate against people on the sions, President Clinton simply clarifies a long- a lawsuit in Austin alleging that their former basis of their race or their gender, and standing interpretation of an Executive Order supervisor used hostile language to describe least of all should the Federal Govern- issued thirty years ago by President Nixon. victims assistance language and attitudes to- ment make such distinctions. This is hardly a change in policy, but if this wards gays and lesbians by the division's ex- And so, it is deeply hurtful to those small clarification improves the comfort and ecutive director. This type of discrimination of us who believe that gevernment morale of one federal employee, it is worth our should shock all of us, but unfortunately, gays should not make these distinctions to fervent support. and lesbians are still openly discriminated hear the argument made that to ban I believe this Executive Order will have a against in our society. discrimination necessarily leads to af- more tangible impact, as well. Anyone who Not only will President Clinton's Executive firmative action. Because if we hold has ever run a business knows that good mo- Order 13087 help end discrimination against that, we give the strength to the argu- rale improves productivity and attracts the federal workers, it will set an example that will ment on the other side of all of these brightest, best people. help combat employment discrimination every- arguments that I, and our good friend I am proud to say that throughout my public where. No person should be denied a job or and colleague the gentleman from service career, at Multnomah County, and in fired because he or she is gay. 84% of our Florida (Mr. CANADY), have been at- the City of Portland, we have had similar poli- citizens support equal rights in employment. tempting: namely, to end the use of cies of non-discrimination. In 1991, the Port- Shouldn't we? I urge my colleagues to oppose race, to end the use of gender, to end land City Council, believing that what was this bill and to work to end discrimination quotas and timetables and numerical good for workers was good for work, prohib- against gays and lesbians across our country. goals on race and gender, by the federal ited discrimination based on sexual orienta- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. government. tion. I believe that policy had a significant im- Chairman, I yield such time as he may The argument other people make is pact on the effectiveness of employees consume to the gentleman from Ohio to say, ‘‘Well, you know, if we ban dis- throughout the City. (Mr. KUCINICH). crimination, then we have got to re- The continuing assault on gay and lesbian (Mr. KUCINICH asked and was given quire certain numbers or we will never citizens by some of my colleagues is unfortu- permission to revise and extend his re- get rid of discrimination.’’ I profoundly nate and undeserved. No employee should be marks.) say to them, that is false, that I can discriminated against because of sexual ori- Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I rise and am against discrimination, but I entation. The government should lead by ex- to oppose the Hefley amendment. will not tolerate the Federal Govern- ample. I applaud Executive Order 13087 and Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. ment deciding who gets a job because urge rejection of the Hefley amendment. Chairman, I yield such time as he may of the color of their skin. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. consume to the gentleman from Flor- And so, it is profoundly disturbing Chairman, I yield such time as she may ida (Mr. DEUTSCH). and disappointing that my good friend consume to the gentlewoman from (Mr. DEUTSCH asked and was given offers this amendment suggesting that Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE). permission to revise and extend his re- by banning discrimination on the basis (Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas asked marks.) and was given permission to revise and of orientation, we must necessarily be Mr. DEUTSCH. Mr. Chairman, I rise extend her remarks.) leading to the use of quotas and affirm- to oppose the Hefley amendment. Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. ative action and numbers. Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield Chairman, I oppose the Hefley amend- To all of my friends who are col- such time as he may consume to the leagues in this battle against the rule ment. gentleman from Georgia (Mr. BARR). that Government looks at the color of Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the opportunity Mr. BARR of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, our skin, think about how wrong it is to speak on this issue tonight. Representative I ask unanimous consent that my to say that the Government should HEFLEY's amendment attempts to nullify the amendment No. 39, which would have look and ban us from opportunities on effect of President Clinton's May 28, 1998 Ex- covered the same grounds precisely the basis of our orientation as well. ecutive Order which added sexual orientation that we are covering here this evening Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. to the nondiscrimination policy of the Federal with regard to the Hefley amendment Chairman, I yield such time as he may Government. and which was covered in large part consume to the gentleman from Cali- President Clinton's executive order broke no during the previous debate on Execu- fornia (Mr. MILLER). new ground and did not create new law. It tive Order 13083 by the gentleman from (Mr. MILLER of California asked and simply amended the existing federal executive Arizona (Mr. KOLBE) be rescinded. was given permission to revise and ex- order governing equal employment opportunity tend his remarks.) by adding the term sexual orientation and I urge all Members to support the Mr. MILLER of California. Mr. Chair- therefore including gays and lesbians within gentleman from Colorado (Mr. man, I rise in strong opposition to the the nondiscrimination policies of Federal agen- HEFLEY), who would have supported my Hefley amendment. cies and offices. stand-alone amendment. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. Mr. Chairman, I am sure that my colleagues The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection Chairman, I yield such time as he may would agree that we should base our review to the request of the gentleman from consume to the gentleman from Oregon of federal employees on their job performance, Georgia? (Mr. BLUMENAUER). not their sexual orientation. And like my col- There was no objection. (Mr. BLUMENAUER asked and was leagues, I believe in fairness. All of us are di- Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield given permission to revise and extend minished when individuals are prevented from the balance of my time to the gen- his remarks.) contributing the full measure of their talent and tleman from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCH- Mr. BLUMENAUER. Mr. Chairman, I ability to society. Those of us who oppose the INSON). rise in strong opposition to the Hefley Hefley amendment are not alone. 72% of our The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman amendment. nation's citizens as polled in the Wall Street from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON) is rec- I rise in strong opposition to the Hefley Journal support President Clinton's anti-gay ognized for 1 minute. amendment. bias in federal agencies. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I Executive Orders 11478 and 13087 are That gays and lesbians face a hostile cli- believe that everyone today is agreed based on the notion that job performance mate at their jobs and elsewhere is undis- that we do not want to have discrimi- should be the sole measure of a person's fit- puted. In 1997, an American Psychological nation in our country and particularly ness to work. Supporters of this amendment Association report found that many employers by the Federal Government. I fought want us to believe that this fundamental tenet openly admit they would discriminate against a that as a prosecutor, as a private attor- of our American culture is radical and subver- homosexual employee. A survey of 91 em- ney, and I think we agree that should sive. Somehow, they want us to believe, mak- ployers demonstrated that 18% would fire, not take place. ing it clear that the Administration will hire and 27% would refuse to hire, and 26% would But there is a legitimate concern retain the best people for the job is dan- refuse to promote a person perceived to be that this goes beyond consideration, gerous. gay. there is more there. The gentleman By adding sexual orientation to the list of In my own home State of Texas, two former from California raised a question. Well, factors irrelevant to hiring and promotion deci- employees of the Texas governor's office filed it does not. H7260 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 But I look at the executive order It would allow the Federal Government to dis- astonishingly, there are some who would deny very simply that this is the Nixon ex- criminate in its employment practices and it people ordinary rights because of their sexual ecutive order that was amended to in- would show private employers that the federal orientation. I had hoped that by now Ameri- clude sexual orientation. If we include government does not enforce its own anti-dis- cans could at least agree that private consen- that, section 1 says that part of this is crimination policies. This is not the way we sual sexual relationships bear no relationship policy of government to promote the should treat our own employees and not the to job performance and that even those who full realization of equal employment message we should be sending to employers adopt the unscientific view that it is appro- opportunities through a continuing and in the United States and internationally. I urge priate to manipulate sexual orientation in order affirmative action program in each ex- you to support equal opportunity employment to change it (imagine what most of us who are ecutive department and agency. and the end of discrimination in the workplace heterosexual would think if someone tried to The good lawyer understands that by opposing the Hefley amendment. change our sexual orientation) would agree this can be interpreted to say that we Mr. STARK. Mr. Chairman, I rise today to that discrimination is always wrong and should are going to have an affirmative action oppose the Hefley Amendment to the FY99 be off limits. The official expression of bias in program for these categories. It might Commerce, Justice, State Appropriations bill, our law through the repeal of an anti-discrimi- not be the case. which seeks to block the implementation of an nation provision should be as unthinkable as The second point is that when I executive order prohibiting discrimination to gay men and lesbians as to other Ameri- asked the Acting Attorney General Bill based on sexual orientation in the federal civil- cans. Lann Lee on Civil Rights, ‘‘were you ian workforce. The last few months have seen an outpour- ever asked to review this by the Clin- Many Federal civil employers have adopted ing of homophobic proposals that insult people ton administration prior to the adop- individual policies prohibiting employment dis- based on their sexual orientation. Sexual tion, this dramatic change?’’ and his crimination on the basis of sexual orientation. choice goes to the core of a person's being. answer was, ‘‘I was never consulted. I Executive Order 13087 amends the existing Issues of sexual orientation are no place for was never asked to review this change federal executive order governing equal em- amateurs acting out their sexual biases in in the civil rights policy of our Federal ployment opportunity by adding the term ``sex- public policy. History will look back on this Government.’’ ual orientation''Ðthereby uniting the many ex- amendment and shake its head, even as black I think that this major change de- isting nondiscrimination policies of Federal people look back on similar proposals that serves some hearings in Congress, de- agencies. were fraught with racism. Let us not replay serves some thought, and certainly de- In short, the order extends to gay and les- that history with a new set of discredited pro- serves some debate about this execu- bian employees the same equal opportunity posals against a new group of Americans. tive order. I support the Hefley amend- long-afforded to women, seniors, persons with Ms. PELOSI. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong ment. disabilities, and racial, ethnic and religious mi- opposition to the Hefley Amendment. It is a Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. norities. sad day for the House when undermining Chairman, I yield such time as he may Not only do I oppose this harmful amend- equal rights for one group becomes the pri- consume to the gentleman from Vir- ment, I believe Congress should take the mary social cause for leading members. Un- ginia (Mr. MORAN). issue of discrimination in the workplace a step fortunately, this Summer we have witnessed a (Mr. MORAN of Virginia asked and further by passing the long-overdue Employ- rising tide of verbal and legislative attacks on was given permission to revise and ex- ment Non-Discrimination Act. ENDA would the lesbian and gay Americans among us. tend his remarks.) provide protection against employment dis- They have become the easy target of this leg- Mr. MORAN of Virginia. Mr. Chair- crimination based on sexual orientation at islative season. man, I rise in opposition to this amend- businesses with more than 15 employees by But let us put the rhetoric aside for a mo- ment. creating new enforcement rights, such as the ment and say what this amendment really Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposition to ability to proceed before the Equal Employ- does. If you vote for this amendment, you are the Hefley amendment. Don't let proponents of ment Opportunity Commission. The need for sending a message to federal managers and this amendment deceive you into thinking this the passage of ENDA presents itself daily as agency chiefs that it is acceptable to disregard is a complicated issue. It is very straight- promotions are rescinded, chances for em- talent and determination, intelligence and in- forward. It is simply about equal opportunity. ployment are lost, and harassment on the job tegrity, and hire or fire someone based on Equal rights. Anti-discrimination. The Presi- abounds. their sexual orientation. It is ironic that my col- dent's executive order provides no additional No one should be judged on the irrational leagues, who are often so ready to criticize ``special privileges'' for any ``special interest prejudice. Congress has no right to prevent the work of federal agencies, are willing to group.'' It clearly prohibits the federal govern- these individuals the opportunity to contribute vote that the right to discriminate is more im- ment from considering sexual orientation in the full measure of their talent and ability to portant than the need for competence. employment decisions. America's workforce. The President's Executive order provides no This has been the policy for most federal I ask my colleagues to join with me to de- special rights, no affirmative action, and no agencies and offices but has not been uni- fend equal rightsÐand to send the strong quotas for any group. President Nixon's non formly stated for all federal employment agen- message to the majority that discrimination in discrimination Executive Order did not require cies. As the body charged with determining the workplace based on sexual orientation is affirmative action based on age or religion, terms of employment for federal employees, wrong. and neither does this one. This Executive we have a grave responsibility in leading the Ms. NORTON. Mr. Chairman, representative Order is not about quotas, this is about saying effort to break down the walls of discrimination HEFLEY'S amendment to the Commerce, Jus- discrimination has no place in our country. It in employment. The fact that we are charged tice and State Appropriations for FY 1999 says federal workers who happen to be les- with legislating equal opportunity labor prac- would prohibit any of the funds in this bill or bian or gay must simply be allowed to go to tices for all employers throughout the United any other act from being used to implement, work every day to do their jobs just like the States and policies that affect international administer or enforce Executive Order 13087, rest of us. employment practices makes this an even which prohibits federal agencies from discrimi- I am proud to represent a city with many greater responsibility. nating against individuals in federal hiring or in lesbians and gays who have courageously Fortunately, this is not a complicated issue the receipt of federal grants because of their stood up for their right to equality. When an as so many that we consider here are. Dis- sexual orientation. This is an unabashed and amendment like this is offered in the House, I crimination is wrong in any form. Discrimina- bald pro-discrimination provision. It has no think of the many able federal workers I have tion on the basis of sexual orientation is just place in federal law, and all who have worked had the privilege to know and work with who as wrong as discrimination on the basis of for equality or even paid lip service to the no- are gay or lesbian. This bill would allow them race, religion, or sex. We shouldn't discrimi- tion should be offended that this amendment to be fired on a whim, based on prejudice. nate in federal government employment prac- has been offered. An amendment which removes equal rights tices. It is that simple. Every employer in the United States has the for these and other individuals defies logic and The Hefley amendment would deny the use responsibility to be proactive in removing dis- is without merit. And when we disregard merit of funds for the implementation, enforcement, crimination. The President has acted respon- on issues like this, we do more than affect the or administration of the executive order to in- sibly as the CEO of the federal workplace. Un- rights of federal employees. The words we clude sexual orientation in the federal govern- fortunately, there is great confusion among speak and votes we cast in this chamber have ment's anti-discrimination employment policy. some Americans about homosexuality and, broad impactÐand when we send messages August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7261 of prejudice and intolerance, we give licence not offer the same protections to lesbian and I urge a vote against this amendment. to hatred. gay Americans in forty states. Mr. GEPHARDT. Mr. Chairman, the Execu- There have been proud days in this House In Executive Order 13087, the Clinton Ad- tive Order Mr. HEFLEY seeks to nullify is not when we have passed legislation establishing ministration took an important and justified about providing special status to gay and les- equal rights and protections. Today, unfortu- step to correct this inequity in the federal bian Americans in federal hiring and employ- nately, we debate whether to take a step workforce. The Executive Order ensures lib- ment. It's simply about providing them with the backward, and side with discrimination and erty and justice for lesbian and gay federal same protections against discrimination that prejudice. employees by amending a Nixon Administra- are already in place for other Americans who This Summer, some members of Congress tion Executive Order to also prohibit discrimi- have suffered from discrimination. have compared homosexuality with a disease. nation based on sexual orientation. Complaints about the quality of public serv- But the real disease is ignorance. The real sin By defeating the Hefley Amendment, we will ants are unfortunately all too commonplace. is judging people solely by their group status. affirm for lesbian and gay employees of the I urge my colleagues to vote against the federal government the same liberty and jus- Surely, this amendment will drive away many Hefley Amendment. tice enjoyed by their co-workers: the justice of applicants from pubic service at a time when Ms. WOOLSEY. Mr. Chairman, this amend- equality; the justice of protection from discrimi- our challenges as a nation are too great to ment is nothing more than an effort to use the nation; and the liberty to love and live without justify excluding even one qualified American Federal Government to enforce the narrow fear of job-loss or punishment. from helping us solve these problems. views shared by a few members of the radical A bi-partisan majority of our colleagues in Sexual orientation should not be considered right. this House already have policies prohibiting in the hiring, promoting, or termination of an Two months ago the civil rights movement discrimination based on sexual orientationÐ employee in the federal government. You in this country took a major step forward when gay or straight. We know this protection is would think that this would be something we President Clinton signed an Executive order to good enough for our offices and staffs, and I could all agree on. prevent the Federal Government from discrimi- hope a majority will determine it's good But sadly, the supporters of this amendment nating against employees on the basis of sex- enough for federal employees as well. are making a statement that they tolerate big- ual orientation. Mr. Chairman, the economy is humming otry and they condone arbitrary firings. This is Mr. HEFLEY's amendment would negate this along; America is at peace; and the Com- but the latest of several mean-spirited efforts expansion of civil rights by blocking the Presi- munist threat is gone. We don't have an evil by the Republican leadership against the gay dent's Executive order. enemy lurking in the dark and plotting our na- and lesbian community. There is a lot of misinformation being of- tion's downfallÐand we don't need to create But the vast majority of Americans disagree fered about the President's effort to extend one. with the Republican leadership. Seventy-five civil rights to all Americans, so let me start by Let's resist the temptation to demonize seg- percent believe that gays and lesbians should telling you what the Executive Order does not ments of our own society again by resurrect- have the same employment opportunities as do: ing the politics of fear and division. Let's not all other Americans. That's all the Executive It does not establish ``affirmative action'' for make our gay and lesbian children the new Order does, despite the protestations of its op- gays and lesbians. Simply put, it does not re- nemesis. ponents. quire Federal agencies to hire gays. Mr. Chairman, I am not gay, but people I It does not apply to private companies. Only know, love, trust and respect are gay. Today, Why, when we have so much important Federal civilian employees are covered by the I stand here today for them and for all lesbian work left to address over the next several order. and gay federal employees, and I will vote weeks, are we considering this issue here It does not condone incest or pedophilia. against the Hefley Amendment. today? At the very least, this is a case of mis- ``Sexual orientation'' is defined as ``hetero- This debate is not about quotas, nor affirma- placed priorities. At worst, it's a misguided ef- sexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality.'' tive action, nor secret agendas. It's just about fort to condone discrimination. Now that we've got that clear, let me go on liberty and justice for all. Vote against discrimination and bigotry. to tell you what this Executive order does do: I urge my colleagues to defeat the Hefley Vote against this amendment. This order prevents sexual orientation from Amendment. The CHAIRMAN. All time has ex- being used to deny Federal employees a job Ms. DEGETTE. Mr. Chairman, I am dis- pired. appointed to rise today in opposition to the or promotion. The question is on the amendment Hefley amendment. This means that Federal employees must offered by the gentleman from Colo- be evaluated on the basis of their performance At a time when more HMO patients are de- rado (Mr. HEFLEY). on the jobÐnot by their sexual orientation. nied the care they deserve and three thou- Whatever reasoning the radical right uses in sand more children become addicted to to- The question was taken; and the support of this amendment, I think their real bacco products every day, I am outraged that Chairman announced that the noes ap- motives are abundantly clear: this Congress wastes another day of its limited peared to have it. They want to promote discrimination against schedule on punitive and hate-based legisla- Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, I de- gays and lesbians. tion that encourages discrimination against mand a recorded vote. To make matters worse, they are willing to other Americans. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House sacrifice the appropriations process in an at- I resent the recent escalation of anti-gay Resolution 508, further proceedings on tempt to further this narrow cultural war. rhetoric we are hearing out of Washington. the amendment offered by the gen- The fact is, sexual orientation is not a That to be gay or to support gay-rights is tleman from Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY) choice any more than skin color, gender or somehow an anti-Christian value is absurd. will be postponed. One's religious beliefs should be based on our ethnicity. Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I move peaceful co-existence with, and mutual re- And despite what some might think, the that the Committee do now rise. Federal Government does not have the right spect for, our fellow human beings. I am proud to dictate how people should live their lives or to call myself a Christian and I am proud to The motion was agreed to. who they choose their partners to be. stand up against this discrimination. Accordingly, the Committee rose; I urge my colleagues to support civil rights Mr. Chairman, allow me to remind my fellow and the Speaker pro tempore (Mr. by voting against this amendment. Members about a little recent Colorado his- PEASE) having assumed the chair, Mr. Mr. FILNER. Mr. Chairman, we start busi- tory. In 1992 the State of Colorado passed HASTINGS of Washington, Chairman of ness in this House every day by pledging alle- Amendment 2 which would have eradicated the Committee of the Whole House on giance to a nation with liberty and justice for basic protections for gays. If passed into law, the State of the Union, reported that all. it would have had the same effect as my fel- that Committee, having had under con- Without qualification, without pre-requisite, low colleague from Colorado's amendment sideration the bill (H.R. 4276) making without restriction, ``all'' means no one is ex- today. When Amendment 2 passed we be- appropriations for the Departments of cluded, and everyone is includedÐand that came known as the Hate State, a moniker that Commerce, Justice, and State, the Ju- means gay and lesbian Americans too. still sticks today even though the Supreme diciary, and related agencies for the Despite this good intention, however, our re- Court overturned this law declaring it unconsti- fiscal year ending September 30, 1999, ality too often falls short of the ideal, and laws tutional. My esteemed colleagues, do not let and for other purposes, had come to no prohibiting discrimination in employment do us become the Hate Congress! resolution thereon. H7262 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 LIMITING AMENDMENTS AND DE- ber 30, 1999, and for other purposes, Sessions Thornberry Whitfield Smith (MI) Thune Wilson BATE TIME DURING FURTHER with Mr. HASTINGS of Washington in Snowbarger Watt (NC) Wolf CONSIDERATION OF H.R. 4276, DE- the chair. Souder Watts (OK) PARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, The Clerk read the title of the bill. Sununu Waxman JUSTICE, AND STATE, AND JUDI- The CHAIRMAN. When the Commit- NOES—345 CIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES tee of the Whole House rose earlier Abercrombie Filner LoBiondo APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1999, IN today, a request for a recorded vote on Ackerman Foley Lofgren THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE the amendment offered by the gen- Aderholt Forbes Lowey Allen Ford Lucas EFLEY Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Speaker, I ask tleman from Colorado (Mr. H ) Andrews Fossella Luther unanimous consent that during the fur- had been postponed and the bill was Archer Fowler Manton ther consideration of H.R. 4276, in the open for amendment from page 115, line Bachus Fox Manzullo 23, through page 124, line 2. Baesler Frank (MA) Markey Committee of the Whole, pursuant to Baldacci Franks (NJ) Martinez H.Res. 508, no amendment shall be in Pursuant to the order of the House of Barcia Frelinghuysen Mascara order thereto except for the following today, no amendments shall be in order Bartlett Frost Matsui except for the amendments previously Bass Furse McCarthy (MO) amendments, which shall be considered Bateman Gallegly McCarthy (NY) as read, shall not be subject to amend- specified in that order, which shall be Becerra Ganske McCrery ment or to a demand for a division of considered as read, shall not be subject Bentsen Gejdenson McDade the question in the House or in the to amendment or to a demand for a di- Bereuter Gekas McDermott vision of the question, and shall be de- Berry Gephardt McGovern Committee of the Whole, and shall be Bilirakis Gibbons McHale debatable for the time specified, equal- batable for the time specified, equally Bishop Gilchrest McHugh ly divided and controlled by the pro- divided and controlled by a proponent Blagojevich Gillmor McInnis and a Member opposed. Bliley Gilman McIntosh ponent and a Member opposed thereto: Blumenauer Goodlatte McIntyre Mr. SAXTON, a limitation regarding SEQUENTIAL VOTES POSTPONED IN COMMITTEE Blunt Gordon McKeon foreign assets litigation, for 10 min- OF THE WHOLE Boehlert Goss McKinney utes; The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Boehner Graham McNulty Bonilla Green Meek (FL) Mr. HOLDEN, amendment numbered Resolution 508, proceedings will now Bonior Greenwood Meeks (NY) 23, for 5 minutes; resume on those amendments on which Borski Gutierrez Menendez Mr. STEARNS, amendment numbered further proceedings were postponed in Boucher Gutknecht Metcalf Brady (PA) Hall (OH) Mica 35, for 5 minutes; the following order: Brown (CA) Hall (TX) Millender- Mr. MCINTOSH, either amendment Amendment No. 11 by the gentleman Brown (FL) Hamilton McDonald numbered 50 or an amendment regard- from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCHINSON); and Brown (OH) Hansen Miller (CA) ing the Standing Consultative Commit- the amendment by the gentleman from Burton Hastert Miller (FL) Buyer Hastings (FL) Minge tee, for 20 minutes; and Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY). Callahan Hayworth Mink Mr. KUCINICH, amendment numbered The Chair will reduce to 5 minutes Calvert Hefley Mollohan 49, under the 5-minute rule; the time for the second electronic vote Camp Hefner Moran (KS) Campbell Herger Murtha and that the managers of the bill after the first vote in this series. Cannon Hill Nadler may make pro forma amendments to AMENDMENT NO. 11 OFFERED BY MR. Cardin Hilleary Neal strike the last word for the purpose of HUTCHINSON Carson Hilliard Neumann engaging in colloquies. Castle Hinchey Ney The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- Chambliss Hinojosa Northup The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there ness is the demand for a recorded vote Chenoweth Hobson Norwood objection to the request of the gen- on the amendment No. 11 offered by the Clay Hoekstra Oberstar tleman from Kentucky? Clement Holden Obey gentleman from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCH- Clyburn Hooley Olver Mr. MOLLOHAN. Reserving the right INSON) on which further proceedings Coble Horn Ortiz to object, Mr. Speaker, it is my under- were postponed and on which the noes Collins Hostettler Owens standing that points of order will still prevailed by a voice vote. Condit Houghton Oxley lie against these amendments? Cook Hoyer Packard The Clerk will designate the amend- Costello Hunter Pallone The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen- ment. Cox Hyde Pappas tleman is correct. The Clerk designated the amend- Coyne Istook Parker Crane Jackson (IL) Pascrell Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Speaker, I ment. withdraw my reservation of objection. Crapo Jackson-Lee Pastor RECORDED VOTE Cummings (TX) Paul The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there Danner Johnson (CT) Payne objection to the request of the gen- The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Davis (IL) Johnson (WI) Pease tleman from Kentucky? been demanded. Deal Johnson, E.B. Pelosi DeFazio Johnson, Sam Peterson (MN) There was no objection. A recorded vote was ordered. The vote was taken by electronic de- DeGette Kanjorski Peterson (PA) f Delahunt Kaptur Petri vice, and there were—ayes 82, noes 345, DeLauro Kasich Pickering DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, not voting 7, as follows: DeLay Kelly Pickett Deutsch Kennedy (MA) Pitts JUSTICE, AND STATE, AND JUDI- [Roll No. 397] Diaz-Balart Kennedy (RI) Pombo CIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES AYES—82 Dickey Kildee Pomeroy Dicks Kilpatrick Porter APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1999 Armey Conyers Latham Dingell Kim Poshard Baker Cooksey Levin The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursu- Dixon King (NY) Pryce (OH) Ballenger Cramer Lewis (KY) Doggett Kingston Quinn ant to House Resolution 508 and rule Barr Cubin Maloney (CT) Dooley Kleczka Radanovich Barrett (NE) Davis (FL) Maloney (NY) XXIII, the Chair declares the House in Doolittle Klink Rahall Barrett (WI) Davis (VA) McCollum the Committee of the Whole House on Doyle Klug Ramstad Barton Dunn Meehan Dreier Knollenberg Rangel the State of the Union for the further Berman Ehrlich Morella Duncan Kolbe Regula consideration of the bill, H.R. 4276. Bilbray Etheridge Myrick Edwards Kucinich Riley Bono Goode Nethercutt Ehlers LaHood Rivers b 2028 Boswell Granger Nussle Emerson Lampson Rodriguez Boyd Harman Portman Engel Lantos Roemer IN THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Brady (TX) Hastings (WA) Price (NC) English Largent Rohrabacher Bryant Hulshof Redmond Accordingly, the House resolved Ensign LaTourette Ros-Lehtinen Bunning Hutchinson Reyes itself into the Committee of the Whole Eshoo Lazio Roukema Burr Inglis Riggs Evans Leach Roybal-Allard House on the State of the Union for the Canady Jefferson Rogan Everett Lee Royce further consideration of the bill (H.R. Capps Jenkins Rogers Ewing Lewis (CA) Rush Chabot John Rothman 4276) making appropriations for the De- Farr Lewis (GA) Sabo Christensen Jones Ryun partments of Commerce, Justice, and Fattah Linder Sanchez Clayton Kennelly Salmon Fawell Lipinski Sanders State, the Judiciary, and related agen- Coburn Kind (WI) Sandlin Fazio Livingston Sanford cies for the fiscal year ending Septem- Combest LaFalce Schaffer, Bob August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7263 Sawyer Snyder Towns [Roll No. 398] Houghton McDade Roybal-Allard Saxton Solomon Traficant Hoyer McDermott Rush Scarborough Spence Turner AYES—176 Jackson (IL) McGovern Sabo Schaefer, Dan Spratt Upton Aderholt Gutknecht Pickering Jackson-Lee McHale Sanchez Schumer Stabenow Velazquez Archer Hall (OH) Pitts (TX) McKinney Sanders Scott Stark Vento Armey Hall (TX) Pombo Jefferson McNulty Sawyer Sensenbrenner Stearns Visclosky Bachus Hansen Portman Johnson (CT) Meehan Saxton Serrano Stenholm Walsh Baesler Hastert Quinn Johnson (WI) Meek (FL) Schumer Shadegg Stokes Wamp Baker Hastings (WA) Radanovich Johnson, E.B. Meeks (NY) Scott Shaw Strickland Waters Ballenger Hayworth Ramstad Kanjorski Menendez Serrano Shays Stump Watkins Barrett (NE) Hefley Redmond Kaptur Millender- Shaw Sherman Stupak Weldon (FL) Bartlett Herger Riggs Kelly McDonald Shays Shimkus Talent Weldon (PA) Barton Hill Riley Kennedy (MA) Miller (CA) Sherman Shuster Tanner Weller Bass Hilleary Rogan Kennedy (RI) Miller (FL) Shimkus Sisisky Tauscher Wexler Bereuter Hoekstra Rogers Kennelly Minge Sisisky Skaggs Tauzin Weygand Berry Hostettler Royce Kildee Mink Skaggs Skeen Taylor (MS) White Bilirakis Hulshof Ryun Kilpatrick Mollohan Skelton Skelton Taylor (NC) Wicker Blunt Hunter Salmon Kim Moran (VA) Slaughter Slaughter Thomas Wise Boehner Hutchinson Sandlin Kind (WI) Morella Smith (MI) Smith (NJ) Thompson Woolsey Bonilla Hyde Sanford Kleczka Murtha Smith, Adam Smith (OR) Thurman Wynn Brady (TX) Inglis Scarborough Klink Nadler Snyder Smith (TX) Tiahrt Young (AK) Bryant Istook Schaefer, Dan Klug Neal Spratt Smith, Adam Tierney Young (FL) Bunning Jenkins Schaffer, Bob Knollenberg Oberstar Stabenow Smith, Linda Torres Burr John Sensenbrenner Kolbe Obey Stark Kucinich Olver Stokes NOT VOTING—7 Burton Johnson, Sam Sessions Buyer Jones Shadegg LaFalce Ortiz Strickland Cunningham Moakley Yates Callahan Kasich Shuster Lampson Owens Stupak Gonzalez Moran (VA) Calvert King (NY) Skeen Lantos Oxley Tauscher Goodling Paxon Camp Kingston Smith (NJ) LaTourette Pallone Thomas Canady LaHood Smith (OR) Lazio Pascrell Thompson Cannon Largent Smith (TX) Leach Pastor Thurman b2048 Chabot Latham Smith, Linda Lee Payne Tierney Chambliss Lewis (KY) Snowbarger Levin Pelosi Torres Messrs. GANSKE, SPENCE, CRANE Chenoweth Linder Solomon Lewis (CA) Pickett Towns and SCHUMER changed their vote Christensen Lipinski Souder Lewis (GA) Pomeroy Traficant from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ Coble Livingston Spence LoBiondo Porter Upton Lofgren Poshard Velazquez Mr. JOHN changed his vote from Coburn Lucas Stearns Collins Manzullo Stenholm Lowey Price (NC) Vento ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ Combest McHugh Stump Luther Pryce (OH) Visclosky So the amendment was rejected. Cook McInnis Sununu Maloney (CT) Rahall Waters Maloney (NY) Rangel Watt (NC) The result of the vote was announced Cramer McIntosh Talent Crane McIntyre Tanner Manton Regula Waxman as an above recorded. Crapo McKeon Tauzin Markey Reyes Weller Martinez Rivers Wexler RESCINDING VOICE VOTE ON KOLBE AMENDMENT Cubin Metcalf Taylor (MS) Deal Mascara Rodriguez Weygand NO. 19 Mica Taylor (NC) DeLay Moran (KS) Thornberry Matsui Roemer Wilson Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I ask Dickey Myrick Thune McCarthy (MO) Rohrabacher Wise unanimous consent that the voice vote Doolittle Nethercutt Tiahrt McCarthy (NY) Ros-Lehtinen Woolsey McCollum Rothman Wynn on amendment No. 19 offered by the Duncan Neumann Turner Dunn Ney Walsh McCrery Roukema gentleman from Arizona (Mr. KOLBE) Emerson Northup Wamp NOT VOTING—6 be rescinded, and I demand a recorded Ensign Norwood Watkins vote on that amendment to be taken Everett Nussle Watts (OK) Barr Gonzalez Moakley Ewing Packard Weldon (FL) Cunningham Goodling Yates immediately following the vote on the Fawell Pappas Weldon (PA) amendment offered by the gentleman Fossella Parker White b 2057 from Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY). Gekas Paul Whitfield So the amendment was rejected. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection Gibbons Paxon Wicker Gillmor Pease Wolf The result of the vote was announced to the request of the gentleman from Goode Peterson (MN) Young (AK) as above recorded. Arizona? Goodlatte Peterson (PA) Young (FL) AMENDMENT NO. 19 OFFERED BY MR. KOLBE There was no objection. Graham Petri The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to the The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, NOES—252 order of the committee, the pending a recorded vote on amendment No. 19 Abercrombie Clyburn Fazio business is the recorded vote ordered offered by the gentleman from Arizona Ackerman Condit Filner on the Amendment No. 19 offered by Allen Conyers Foley (Mr. KOLBE) will occur immediately the gentleman from Arizona (Mr. after the recorded vote on the amend- Andrews Cooksey Forbes Baldacci Costello Ford KOLBE). ment offered by the gentleman from Barcia Cox Fowler The Clerk will redesignate the Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY). Barrett (WI) Coyne Fox Bateman Cummings Frank (MA) amendment. AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. HEFLEY Becerra Danner Franks (NJ) The Clerk redesignated the amend- The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- Bentsen Davis (FL) Frelinghuysen ment. ness is the demand for a recorded vote Berman Davis (IL) Frost Bilbray Davis (VA) Furse RECORDED VOTE on the amendment offered by the gen- Bishop DeFazio Gallegly The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has tleman from Colorado (Mr. HEFLEY) on Blagojevich DeGette Ganske been demanded. which further proceedings were post- Bliley Delahunt Gejdenson A recorded vote was ordered. poned and on which the noes prevailed Blumenauer DeLauro Gephardt Boehlert Deutsch Gilchrest The CHAIRMAN. This is a five- by voice vote. Bonior Diaz-Balart Gilman minute vote. The Clerk will designate the amend- Bono Dicks Gordon The vote was taken by electronic de- ment. Borski Dingell Goss Boswell Dixon Granger vice, and there were—ayes 417, noes 2, The Clerk designated the amend- Boucher Doggett Green not voting 15, as follows: ment. Boyd Dooley Greenwood [Roll No. 399] RECORDED VOTE Brady (PA) Doyle Gutierrez Brown (CA) Dreier Hamilton AYES—417 The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Brown (FL) Edwards Harman Abercrombie Baker Bass been demanded. Brown (OH) Ehlers Hastings (FL) Ackerman Baldacci Bateman A recorded vote was ordered. Campbell Ehrlich Hefner Aderholt Ballenger Becerra Capps Engel Hilliard The CHAIRMAN. This is a five- Allen Barcia Bentsen Cardin English Hinchey Andrews Barr Bereuter minute vote. Carson Eshoo Hinojosa Archer Barrett (NE) Berman The vote was taken by electronic de- Castle Etheridge Hobson Armey Barrett (WI) Berry Clay Evans Holden vice, and there were—ayes 176, noes 252, Bachus Bartlett Bilbray Clayton Farr Hooley Baesler Barton Bilirakis not voting 6, as follows: Clement Fattah Horn H7264 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 Bishop Franks (NJ) Lucas Roybal-Allard Smith (NJ) Tierney mendous salmon problem facing the Blagojevich Frelinghuysen Luther Royce Smith (OR) Torres Bliley Frost Maloney (CT) Rush Smith (TX) Towns West Coast, including the proposed en- Blumenauer Furse Maloney (NY) Ryun Smith, Adam Traficant dangered species listing of West Coast Blunt Gallegly Manton Sabo Smith, Linda Turner salmon. Boehlert Ganske Manzullo Salmon Snowbarger Upton It is my understanding that the ad- Boehner Gejdenson Markey Sanchez Snyder Velazquez ministration requested an additional Bonilla Gekas Martinez Sanders Solomon Vento Bonior Gephardt Mascara Sandlin Souder Visclosky $7.3 million over last year’s request Bono Gibbons Matsui Sanford Spence Walsh specifically to address these listings on Borski Gilchrest McCarthy (MO) Sawyer Spratt Wamp the West Coast by providing funds for Boswell Gillmor McCarthy (NY) Saxton Stabenow Waters planning and implementation of nec- Boucher Gilman McCollum Scarborough Stark Watkins Boyd Goode McCrery Schaefer, Dan Stearns Watt (NC) essary protective actions for newly Brady (PA) Goodlatte McDade Schaffer, Bob Stenholm Watts (OK) listed species of salmon. Brady (TX) Gordon McDermott Schumer Stokes Waxman Is it correct that the committee was Brown (CA) Goss McGovern Scott Strickland Weldon (FL) unable to provide the requested in- Brown (FL) Graham McHale Sensenbrenner Stump Weller Brown (OH) Granger McHugh Serrano Stupak Wexler creases? Bryant Green McInnis Sessions Sununu Weygand Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, if the Bunning Greenwood McIntosh Shadegg Talent White gentleman will yield, the gentleman is Burr Gutierrez McIntyre Shaw Tanner Whitfield correct. I certainly appreciate the sig- Burton Gutknecht McKeon Shays Tauscher Wicker Buyer Hall (OH) McKinney Sherman Tauzin Wilson nificance of salmon problems which Callahan Hall (TX) McNulty Shimkus Taylor (MS) Wise exist on the West Coast. In fact, be- Calvert Hamilton Meehan Shuster Taylor (NC) Wolf cause of these problems, funding for en- Sisisky Thomas Woolsey Camp Hansen Meek (FL) dangered species programs has been in- Campbell Harman Meeks (NY) Skaggs Thompson Wynn Canady Hastert Menendez Skeen Thornberry Young (AK) creased by almost 200 percent over the Cannon Hastings (FL) Metcalf Skelton Thune Young (FL) last 3 years. Capps Hastings (WA) Mica Slaughter Thurman Unfortunately, the administration’s Smith (MI) Tiahrt Cardin Hayworth Millender- fiscal 1999 budget proposed to pay for Castle Hefley McDonald NOES—2 additional increases in fisheries pro- Chabot Hefner Miller (CA) Chambliss Herger Miller (FL) Carson Jackson-Lee grams through controversial new fish- Chenoweth Hill Minge (TX) eries fees which the Congress already Christensen Hilleary Mink NOT VOTING—15 has rejected. Given this problem, as Clayton Hilliard Mollohan well as the funding constraints faced Clement Hinchey Moran (KS) Clay Cunningham Lampson Clyburn Hobson Moran (VA) Coburn Gonzalez Moakley by the committee, we did the best we Coble Hoekstra Morella Condit Goodling Reyes could within the funds available. Collins Holden Murtha Cox Hinojosa Weldon (PA) Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, if the gen- Crane Hutchinson Yates Combest Hooley Myrick tleman will yield further, I am sure I Conyers Horn Nadler b 2104 Cook Hostettler Neal do not need to tell the chairman how Cooksey Houghton Nethercutt Ms. McKINNEY changed her vote vital these salmon stocks are to the Costello Hoyer Neumann from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ States of Washington, Oregon and Cali- Coyne Hulshof Ney fornia. Currently we are working to- Cramer Hunter Northup So the amendment was agreed to. Crapo Hyde Norwood The result of the vote was announced gether on a recovery strategy, but we Cubin Inglis Nussle as above recorded. desperately need the Federal assist- Cummings Istook Oberstar PERSONAL EXPLANATION ance. Danner Jackson (IL) Obey I can assure the gentleman that all Davis (FL) Jefferson Olver Mr. COX of California. Mr. Chairman, I three of our States will make the nec- Davis (IL) Jenkins Ortiz missed the vote on rollcall No. 399. I strongly Davis (VA) John Owens essary sacrifices as well by matching support the Kolbe amendment, and had I been Deal Johnson (CT) Oxley any Federal funds. I respectfully ask present, I would have voted ``aye.'' DeFazio Johnson (WI) Packard the chairman if he will pledge to work DeGette Johnson, E.B. Pallone Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I move with me and the other Members from Delahunt Johnson, Sam Pappas to strike the last word. DeLauro Jones Parker my region to address the needs of our Mr. Chairman, I take this time for DeLay Kanjorski Pascrell region as the bill moves to conference? Deutsch Kaptur Pastor the purpose of informing Members of Diaz-Balart Kasich Paul Mr. ROGERS. If the gentleman will the schedule for the evening. We pro- yield further, knowing how important Dickey Kelly Paxon pose to proceed with the continuation Dicks Kennedy (MA) Payne this matter is to the gentleman and Dingell Kennedy (RI) Pease and conclusion of the bill. There will others, I would be happy to continue to Dixon Kennelly Pelosi likely be at least two more recorded work with him and the other West Doggett Kildee Peterson (MN) votes, plus final passage; there could be Dooley Kilpatrick Peterson (PA) Coast Members as the bill moves Doolittle Kim Petri three. We hope to speed the process to through the process. Doyle Kind (WI) Pickering where we will get the Members out for Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I appre- Dreier King (NY) Pickett a reasonably early evening, not too Duncan Kingston Pitts ciate the chairman’s courtesy. Dunn Kleczka Pombo late a meeting. So we would say to the Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I move Edwards Klink Pomeroy Members that we propose to roll these to strike the last word. Ehlers Klug Porter votes until final passage, so that hope- Mr. HILL. Mr. Chairman, will the Ehrlich Knollenberg Portman fully they will come to the floor one Emerson Kolbe Poshard gentleman yield? Engel Kucinich Price (NC) more time for a couple of amendment Mr. ROGERS. I yield to the gen- English LaFalce Pryce (OH) votes, or perhaps three, then final pas- tleman from Montana. Ensign LaHood Quinn sage, and hopefully be concluded. Mr. HILL. Mr. Chairman, I am con- Eshoo Lantos Radanovich Etheridge Largent Rahall Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I cerned about two programs that are Evans Latham Ramstad move to strike the last word. not funded in this bill but are included Everett LaTourette Rangel Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, will the in the Senate version of the bill. Last Ewing Lazio Redmond gentleman yield? year my amendment to the Small Busi- Farr Leach Regula Fattah Lee Riggs Mr. MOLLOHAN. I yield to the gen- ness Reauthorization Act was adopted, Fawell Levin Riley tleman from Washington. authorizing $2 million for technical as- Fazio Lewis (CA) Rivers Mr. DICKS. Mr. Chairman, I thank sistance to help small R&D businesses Filner Lewis (GA) Rodriguez Foley Lewis (KY) Roemer the gentleman for the opportunity to compete for SBIR and STTR awards. Forbes Linder Rogan discuss with the chairman the impor- Eligible States could receive $100,000, Ford Lipinski Rogers tance of funds for the National Marine with a $50,000 State match to assist Fossella Livingston Rohrabacher Fisheries Service’s Endangered Species small businesses in applying for these Fowler LoBiondo Ros-Lehtinen Fox Lofgren Rothman Recovery Plan in this year’s budget. I awards and establishing performance Frank (MA) Lowey Roukema know the chairman is aware of the tre- goals. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7265 As this bill moves towards con- ity programs. It is the committee’s in- ment to the Commerce, Justice, State ference, I request that the chairman tention that NMFS consider using a appropriations bill which is identical consider providing $2 million for tech- portion of this increase to augment its to the amendment the gentlewoman nical assistance to the 23 States that activities in this area. from Washington (Ms. DUNN) and I had receive the fewest small business inno- Further, I will be happy to look at planned to offer. vation research grants. the issue regarding additional efforts We intended to introduce that Secondly, I would like to bring to the for this initiative as we move to con- amendment as a stand-alone bill before Chairman’s attention the Mike Mans- ference with the Senate. we adjourn this week. However, in field Fellowship Program. This pro- Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, re- light of the recent outbreak of school gram was created by Congress in 1994 claiming my time, I yield to the gen- shootings this year, I ask for the chair- to honor the distinguished former Sen- tlewoman from Oregon (Ms. HOOLEY). man’s support as we work to make this ator and Majority Leader from Mon- Ms. HOOLEY of Oregon. Mr. Chair- bill law, and create new ways to pre- tana, Mike Mansfield, who also served man, I rise today to enter into a col- vent youth violence in our schools and for 12 years as our Ambassador to loquy with the subcommittee chairman give our communities the tools they Japan. The program builds a core of regarding a program that is important need in that effort. U.S. officials with proficiency in the to the coastal communities in this Na- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I would Japanese language, a network of con- tion. be happy to work with the gentleman tacts inside the government of Japan, Mr. Chairman, less than three weeks and the gentlewoman from Washington and an in-depth knowledge of Japan’s ago the world witnessed one of the (Ms. DUNN) on this legislation over the policy-making process. most devastating natural disasters in coming months. As the bill goes forward to con- history. A giant wave known as a tsu- Mr. DEFAZIO. I thank the chairman ference, I ask that the chairman in- nami struck the shore of northwestern for that. clude the Mansfield program among New Guinea, killing over 2,000 people Mr. Chairman, this country has been rocked the exchange programs supported by and injuring thousands more. Some of by the outbreak of violent shootings and the the conferees. us in this body may recall the tsunami senseless loss of life in our schools this past Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, re- that struck Alaska, California, Oregon year. My hometown of Springfield, OR is still claiming my time, I thank the gen- and Hawaii in 1964, that killed over 120 struggling with the pain and devastation of one tleman for bringing these very impor- Americans. Tsunamis are a real and ex- of those shootings. Like my friends and neigh- tant matters to our attention. I would tremely dangerous threat to life in the bors, I've looked for answers and solutions to be happy to work with the gentleman United States, as well as other coun- these tragic events. It's clear there's no single, and other interested Members to try to tries. or simple, solutions to prevent these acts from address their concerns as we move into In light of the recent New Guinea in- re-occurring when school starts in the fall. But the conference with the Senate on this cident, it is essential that our Nation the circumstances around the Springfield inci- bill. evaluate its preparedness for a similar dent has focused attention on a shortcoming Mr. HILL. Mr. Chairman, if the gen- event. Over the last 2 years, NOAA has in current law. tleman will continue to yield, these been developing a plan to mitigate the When a student takes a gun to school, it programs are of particular importance effects of such an event. I look forward should set-off alarm bells. Someone should to me, and I am pleased the Chairman to working with the chairman to see take a look at that student's life and see what and the Committee will work to ensure that the Federal Government is pre- would be causing that type of behavior, but in- that the funds are provided for both of pared for such an event. stead, police officers are asked to make a these. I appreciate the Chairman’s and judgment call about the youth's state of mind the Committee’s indulgence. b 2115 Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I appre- and determine whether, or not, they pose a move to strike the last word. ciate the gentlewoman’s concern for threat to themselves or the community. But Mr. DEUTSCH. Mr. Chairman, will this very serious problem, and will be may law enforcement officials don't want that the gentleman yield? pleased to work with her as we move discretion. Many law enforcement officials feel Mr. MOLLOHAN. I yield to the gen- through the process to ensure that the these students should be detained and evalu- tleman from Florida. Federal government is taking the nec- ated by a professional before being released Mr. DEUTSCH. Mr. Chairman, I essary steps to be prepared for such a back into the community. Bobby Moody, President of the International would like to discuss NOAA’s South disaster. Florida Ecosystem Restoration Initia- Ms. HOOLEY of Oregon. I thank the Association of Chiefs of Police wrote, ``As re- tive. Because of NOAA’s scientific chairman for the willingness to study cent events have shown, a mechanism must management capabilities, the agency this problem, and am anxious to work be developed which temporarily pulls children plays a critical role in this massive res- with him in conference on this issue. found with guns out of the school system so toration effort. Ten Members of the Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I that a thorough psychological examination can Florida delegation wrote to the com- yield to the gentleman from Oregon be performed to determine the danger such a mittee on May 11 supporting NOAA’s (Mr. DEFAZIO). child presents to others.'' programs. (Mr. DEFAZIO asked and was given Paul Barnett, President of the Oregon State Mr. Chairman, I rise to address two permission to revise and extend his re- Sheriff's Association wrote, ``Oregon's recent points. First, it is my understanding marks.) tragedy in Springfield has been a devastating that the House will provide $2.6 million Mr. DEFAZIO. Mr. Chairman, the and unnecessary reminder of the urgent need for this initiative and $1.3 million to gentlewoman from Washington (Ms. for new legislation to address the obvious in- the National Marine Fisheries Service DUNN) and I were going to enter an adequacies of our current policy regarding to continue its restoration efforts. Sec- amendment today to create an incen- school violence. Over 100 Oregon students ond, I would ask the chairman if he tive program for States to implement a were caught bringing guns to school last year, would consider in conference the re- 24-hour holding period for a psycho- each representing the potential for yet another quest of the National Ocean Service for logical evaluation for juveniles who tragedy. Oregon State Sheriff's Association a coral reef monitoring program. bring firearms to school. urges the U.S. Congress to act quickly to de- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, if the That amendment would have been liver this important tool to communities and gentleman from West Virginia (Mr. subject to a point of order and we will schools throughout the nation by providing in- MOLLOHAN) would yield, the gentleman not offer it, but I wonder if the chair- centives to states willing to implement the pro- from Florida (Mr. DEUTSCH) is correct man would be willing to engage in a visions of the 72 hour hold legislation.'' that the bill includes no less than $2.6 brief colloquy. And Springfield Mayor Bill Morrisette wrote, million in NOAA for this initiative, in- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, if the ``I recently attended a debriefing conference in cluding $1.3 under the National Marine gentleman from West Virginia would Memphis, TN convened by Mayor Jimmy Fos- Fisheries Service to continue ongoing yield, I would tell the gentleman, yes, ter of Pearl, MS and attended by representa- activities. of course I would. tives of Paduca, KY, Jonesboro and Stgamps, In addition, the bill provides a $5 mil- Mr. DEFAZIO. Mr. Chairman, as we AK, Edinboro, PA and Keokuk, IA. It was the lion increase for NMFS for high-prior- know, the Senate adopted an amend- consensus that the 72-hour mandatory holding H7266 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 period for guns on school campuses was a to conference with the Senate, I ask for Crab, a small business in the United necessary first step. If we don't even allow the Chairman’s support in retaining States. They required that the roll joking about having a weapon in an airport, the House funding level for this vital call, which had been word of mouth, be why should we give a kid a slap on the wrist program in directing necessary funds publicized, and required them to spend for bringing a gun to school.'' to combat the methamphetamine prob- $125,000 in ads in the papers that they Guns in schools is too common. A study of lem in Missouri, so we can give local specified. the Department of Education on implementa- law enforcement officials the tools nec- As a result of that, a fewer percent of tion of the Gun-Free-Schools Act found that essary to wage a winning battle over applicants of women were brought in. more than 6,000 students were expelled for this highly addictive and destructive They hired more than the percentage bringing a firearm to school in the 1996±97 drug. of applicants that came in as far as fe- school year. Thirty-four percent of those stu- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I would males were concerned, and again, no fe- dents were in junior high school, and nine per- like to congratulate the gentleman for male complained at any time. cent were in elementary school. Communities his input on this tragic and important When confronted with the 22 percent want and need more tools and resources to matter. I look forward to working with female hiring that had occurred be- deal with these situations. the gentleman and our Senate counter- tween 1991 and 1995, the court then just This amendment is not a panacea, and we parts to move towards the House posi- changed the statistical reference. They can't second guess what would have hap- tion certainly on the COPS meth- then looked at the total of the female pened if this law had been in effect and Kip amphetamine funding. food servers in Dade County, and that Kinkle had been detained and evaluated by a Mr. HULSHOF. I thank the chair- was 32 percent, so they just moved the judge rather than released into the community. man. target so they could do what they But, this law would give local law enforcement Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I move wanted to do. officials one more tool to use to reduce the in- to strike the last word for the purpose The bottom line is that this res- cidence of gun violence in our schools. of engaging in a colloquy with the gen- taurant has spent 6 years, over $1 mil- Mr. ROGERS. I move to strike the tleman from Arkansas (Mr. DICKEY). lion; they have had bad publicity; they last word, Mr. Chairman. Mr. DICKEY. Mr. Chairman, will the have had lower morale; they have had Mr. HULSHOF. Mr. Chairman, will gentleman yield? the court come in and take over their the gentleman yield? Mr. ROGERS. I yield to the gen- operations and examine it from every Mr. ROGERS. I yield to the gen- tleman from Arkansas. angle. Then we are giving them $18.5 tleman from Missouri. Mr. DICKEY. Mr. Chairman, I want million in increase. I think they do not Mr. HULSHOF. Mr. Chairman, I to show my concern about a provision have enough to do. If they claim there would ask to enter into a colloquy with in the chairman’s bill that allows an is a backlog, it is because they are the Chairman of the Subcommittee. increase of $18.5 million for the EEOC. spending time on such frivolous litiga- First of all, I want to commend the I want to do so by drawing attention to tion. They should be examined very Chairman. I also want to commend the a circumstance in Miami, Florida, that carefully. ranking member, the gentleman from I think is worthy of the gentleman’s Small businesses all across the coun- West Virginia, and other members of attention and the attention of my col- try are being victimized by the EEOC. They are at the point where they can- the Subcommittee for their commit- leagues. It has to do with Joe’s Stone not complain because they think retal- ment to address the methamphetamine Crab in Miami Beach. problem in the United States, and spe- That is a well-known, world-re- iation will come. Joe’s Stone Crab is a cifically to provide $50 million of un- nowned restaurant. It has been owned story of one owner saying, I will take on the government for the sake of the used funds to the methamphetamine for 85 years by the same Jewish family. small businesses. program within the community-ori- It has had diversity practices in its hir- My last comment, Mr. Chairman, is ented policing program. ing practices long before it was re- that I urge, as this bill moves forward Tragically, Mr. Chairman, over the quired by law. It has been targeted and and in the years to come, that the last couple of years, my home State of victimized by the EEOC, not because chairman address the issue of frivolous Missouri has ranked among the top there are too few female employees. litigation and damages that the EEOC three methamphetamine-producing The owner is a female, and 22 percent brings upon the small businesses in States in the Nation. We have seen in of the employees are female. The heads America. our State investigations seizures dou- of the departments of the restaurant, Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I appre- ble in recent years. I can tell the gen- Mr. Chairman, are females, but there ciate the gentleman bringing up this tleman that law enforcement in Mis- are too few female servers, according problem. The increase in the bill is tar- souri is waging a war against meth- to the EEOC. geted at resolving the backlog of indi- amphetamine production, and they This is in contrast to what is happen- vidual charges of discrimination, closed over 310 labs last year. Unfortu- ing with Hooters. Hooters has only fe- charges brought by actual individuals nately, a lot of work yet remains to be male servers. They are a chain. The claiming discrimination. These are ac- done. EEOC has targeted just one restaurant. tual employers and employees who de- Demonstrating the problems meth- The reign of terror of the EEOC serve prompt and fair resolutions. A amphetamine is causing in Missouri, I against Joe’s Stone Crab began on major part of the increase is for alter- got a letter from a constituent of mine, April 27, 1992. The charge was a failure native dispute resolution to avoid the Linwood Willis Carman, Jr., who hap- to actively recruit female servers. This costs and delays of litigation, which pens to work for the Wellsville Police was done without a female filing a the gentleman has mentioned. Department in Montgomery County in complaint, and it was done without At the same time, we have included suburban St. Louis. He asked for my complying with the law that 300 days report language that tells the EEOC to help so his police department can con- prior to such a ruling, that there had give priority to the backlog over litiga- tinue to employ officers to combat to be a complaint filed. There was no tion. The report language requires the meth. complaint filed. They went on their EEOC to track and report the resources He says: ‘‘Sir, I ask you for a helping own. spent on litigation compared to re- hand to help me do what I love to do On July 3, 1997, there was a ruling by sources spent on clearing the backlog, and was trained to do. I want to stop Judge Daniel T. K. Early. In his find- so we can make sure they are adhering the meth makers of Missouri, and help ings he said that Joe’s Stone Crab was to our guidance. the countless that fall victim to the guilty; those were his words, even I would be happy to work with the temptation. I don’t want to see Mis- though it is a civil action, that they gentleman as the bill moves to con- souri ranked number one in the meth were guilty of hiring discrimination. ference and beyond. business anymore.’’ There was no finding of any intended Mr. DICKEY. I thank the gentleman. Mr. Chairman, I understand the Sen- discrimination, Mr. Chairman. They Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I move ate provided $15.5 million for the meth- took it on themselves, or the court to strike the last word. amphetamine program, well below the took it on itself at that point to take Mr. FOX of Pennsylvania. Mr. Chair- House level of $50 million. As we move over the hiring practices of Joe’s Stone man, will the gentleman yield? August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7267 Mr. ROGERS. I yield to the gen- against a claim for attachment in aid of exe- There was no objection. tleman from Pennsylvania for the pur- cution, or execution, of property of a foreign The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman poses of a colloquy. state upon a judgment relating to a claim from Wisconsin (Mr. OBEY) will control Mr. FOX of Pennsylvania. Mr. Chair- brought under section 1605(a)(7) of title 28, the time. United States Code. man, I rise to engage the chairman in b 2130 a colloquy. I have offered and subse- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to the order of the House of today, the gen- quently withdrawn an amendment that Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield my- tleman from New Jersey (Mr. SAXTON) would have ensured that none of the self such time as I may consume. and a Member opposed will each con- It is my understanding that the com- funds provided in this act may be used trol 5 minutes. mittee intends to accept this amend- by the Department of State or the The Chair recognizes the gentleman ment on both sides. I would simply like United States Information Agency to from New Jersey (Mr. SAXTON) for 5 to say that, as some Members may re- provide any form of assistance to the minutes. member, this matter was brought up Palestinian Broadcast Corporation. Mr. SAXTON. Mr. Chairman, I yield before the House once before several The Palestinian Broadcast Corpora- myself such time as I may consume. weeks ago on a previous appropriation tion is the official broadcasting arm of This amendment is known as the bill. It was then offered in a form the Palestinian Authority. It has been International Terrorist Must Pay which was technically not germane to receiving assistance from the United amendment. In 1996, the Congress the bill and was subject to a point of States while engaging in a campaign in passed and the President signed the order. support of violence and hatred against Antiterrorism and Effective Death We felt that the Congress had not the United States and her interests. Penalty Act of 1996. This Act allowed had sufficient time to examine the This campaign is fostering an atmos- victims of State-sponsored terrorism to amendment and to understand its im- phere sympathetic to violence and ter- sue foreign governments in Federal plications in terms of the administra- rorism in the region. court for damages arising from terror- tion’s ability to negotiate and to con- I believe the United States should do ism. duct foreign policy. So we were con- everything possible to support a free In 1995, a young New Jersey woman cerned at that time. and independent media, but I say to named Alysa Flatow was killed in We have now learned a bit more the gentleman from Kentucky (Chair- Israel by a suicide bomber from the Is- about the status of the law. There are man ROGERS), this is not media, this is lamic Jihad, a terrorist operation fi- still, frankly, some questions about the propaganda. I do not believe United nanced by and sponsored by Iran. Her advisability of going exactly this States taxpayer dollars should be spent family sued under the aforementioned route, but, frankly, the State Depart- to sustain it. statutes and proved that Iran had fi- ment has not been as clear as we would I understand the committee has in- nanced the activities of the Islamic like in laying out what other options cluded report language addressing this Jihad, and received a judgment of $247 might be available. issue. In addition, I understand the million in damages. So under these circumstances, I Senate has passed legislative language Needless to say, Iran did not volun- think it is advisable for the committee similar to the committee’s report lan- tarily step forward to pay the judg- to accept the amendment with the un- guage. I would hope that the chairman ment. As a result, the Flatows sought derstanding that it will need to be would consider this favorably when ad- to locate Iranian-owned property in the worked on in conference to make cer- dressing the issue in conference. United States. Recently they located tain that it is consistent with U.S. na- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I thank three properties in Washington, D.C. tional interests. the gentleman for raising the issue. As owned by the Iranian government. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the the gentleman mentioned, we have in- They proceeded to go to court to have gentleman from New York (Mr. ENGEL). cluded report language urging the the court attach the properties for sub- Mr. ENGEL. Mr. Chairman, I thank USIA to refrain from assisting the Pal- sequent sale. the gentleman for yielding me the estinian Broadcasting Corporation in The court issued the writs of attach- time. any way which could further the re- ment, and the Federal Marshals were I rise in strong support of the amend- striction of press freedoms or the ordered to serve Iran with the papers. ment of the gentleman from New Jer- broadcasting of inaccurate, inflam- The State Department at that time sey. This will help American victims of matory messages. stepped in and raised objections to the terrorism collect on judgments they It is my understanding that the De- sale, in effect taking the side of Iran, have been awarded against state spon- partment of State and USIA currently and asked the Justice Department to sors of terrorism. have a policy of not providing such as- intervene on the side of Iran. As the gentleman from New Jersey sistance to the Palestinian Broadcast- The Justice Department subse- pointed out, the Flatow family has got- ing Corporation, based on the types of quently made an appearance in the ten a judgment against the government behaviors that the gentleman has just trial and argued that the property of Iran, which sponsors terrorism. It is described. I support that policy. should not be seized, their argument absolutely obscene that we would be in As the bill moves into conference, I being that it would allow the seizure of a position of taking the side of Iran. will be happy to work with the gen- Iranian assets. Of course, if their argu- Iran must understand, as an outlaw na- tleman and other interested Members. ment holds, this would defeat the pur- tion, that we will never stop in trying Mr. FOX of Pennsylvania. I thank pose of the bill that Members on both to combat terrorism. This is certainly the gentleman. I appreciate his assur- sides of the aisle voted in favor of in justice for the Flatow family. ances and assistance in this regard. 1996, the Antiterrorism and Effective By allowing this seizure of Iranian AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. SAXTON Death Penalty Act of 1996. Iran there- assets, this is something that teaches Mr. SAXTON. Mr. Chairman, I offer fore would be allowed to continue to fi- Iran, hits them where it hurts and let an amendment. nance terrorist activity without a price us them understand, again, that we The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- to pay. This amendment finalizes the will not accept state-sponsored terror- ignate the amendment. process and creates a price for inter- ism. The text of the amendment is as fol- national terrorism. It is ludicrous that the State Depart- lows: Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance ment had opposed this. Iran must pay a price for the continuing support of ter- Amendment offered by Mr. SAXTON: of my time. At the end of the bill, insert after the last Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I do not rorism. I compliment my friend from section (preceding the short title) the follow- really want to oppose the amendment, New Jersey. ing: but I ask unanimous consent to claim Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I would TITLE IX—ADDITIONAL GENERAL the time so we can explain why we are simply say that there are some ques- PROVISIONS accepting it. tions, also, the State Department has SEC. 901. None of the funds appropriated or The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection with respect to who should be ahead of otherwise made available in this Act may be to the request of the gentleman from whom in being able to make claims used by the United States to intervene Wisconsin? against countries like Iran. H7268 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the Mr. SAXTON. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 (2) This section and the amendments made gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. minute to the gentleman from New by this section shall not affect any action commenced before the effective date of this MENENDEZ). Jersey (Mr. ANDREWS). (Mr. ANDREWS asked and was given section and pending on such date in the (Mr. MENENDEZ asked and was United States District Court for the Eastern given permission to revise and extend permission to revise and extend his re- District of Pennsylvania. his remarks.) marks.) (3) This section and the amendments made Mr. MENENDEZ. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. ANDREWS. Mr. Chairman, I rise by this section shall not affect the composi- want to rise in strong support of the in strong support of the amendment of- tion, or preclude the service, of any grand or Saxton amendment. fered by the gentleman from New Jer- petit jury summoned, impaneled, or actually serving on the effective date of this section. We clearly gave the right to victims sey (Mr. SAXTON). I congratulate him of terrorists to sue foreign entities for for it. The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to the compensation as a Congress. That is The life of Alysa Flatow was only 20 previous order of the House of today, what the Congress passed in the law. years long, and I am sure that her fam- the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. And it is right for us to do so, to give ily feels a pain that is beyond descrip- HOLDEN) and a Member opposed each 1 a victim with a court-ordered judg- tion. But I am also sure that we can do will control 2 ⁄2 minutes. ment, to be allowed to enforce that something collectively here tonight The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. HOLDEN). judgment against any and all assets of that will help her life have even more Mr. HOLDEN. Mr. Chairman, I yield a country in the United States. meaning than it has already had. We can change the law of our country myself such time as I may consume. It is offensive, in my view, that any What my amendment will do is to and say to terrorists, whether in Iran department or entity of the United transfer Schuylkill, Pennsylvania from or around the world, that in this coun- States Government would actively the Eastern Judicial District of Penn- try you will be held accountable. If you seek to inhibit such a judgment. This sylvania to the Middle Judicial Dis- amendment would allow the family of appear before our courts and you are trict of Pennsylvania. Alysa Flatow, who is someone who in adjudicated guilty, you cannot find a This provision overwhelmingly fact died at the age of 20, a resident of loophole or an escape. passed the House as part of H.R. 2294, the State of New Jersey, a young, vi- This is a legacy that this young the Federal Courts Improvement Act. brant woman who had a lifetime of op- woman’s life can leave for generations However, the other body has notified portunity ahead of her. Her life was cut to come that if, God forbid, if someone us that they will not be able to address short and her family devastated by a else is a victim of terrorism, those ter- this piece of legislation in this session bomb which exploded on the bus she rorists can and will be held account- because of the few remaining legisla- was traveling on in Gaza. She was ab- able in a U.S. court of law. tive days on the calendar. So this is an solutely innocent. I urge the amendment’s adoption. amendment of convenience, an amend- They have a court-ordered judgment. Mr. SAXTON. Mr. Chairman, I yield ment of convenience to the citizens of The judge actually gave them a writ to such time as he may consume to the Schuylkill County who are now forced go ahead against property. We should gentleman from Kentucky (Mr. ROG- to drive in excess of 2 hours to Phila- not be interfering. We should be stand- ERS). delphia to serve on jury duty or for ing up on behalf of the rights of United Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, we have other court business. States citizens to be able to pursue no objection to the amendment. As the If Schuylkill County is moved to the such a judgment. gentleman from Wisconsin indicated, Middle District of Pennsylvania, the Mr. SAXTON. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 this needs to be discussed at some citizens of Schuylkill County will only minute to the gentleman from New point before and during conference to have to travel a distance of about 55 or be sure we are consistent on our policy. Jersey (Mr. PASCRELL) who represents 60 miles, less than an hour on inter- the Flatow family. But we have no objection to this state 81, to the State Capital of Harris- Mr. PASCRELL. Mr. Chairman, amendment and congratulate the gen- burg. Alysa Flatow was a student at Bran- tleman. This is a noncontroversial amend- deis University. She was a woman of Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield ment, Mr. Chairman. Both chief judges great character, both in life and in back the balance of my time. of the Eastern District and of the Mid- Mr. SAXTON. Mr. Chairman, I thank death. Those who received her organs dle District have no opposition to it. very much the chairman and the rank- can attest to the kind of woman she The Bar Association of Schuylkill ing member and all those who have was. Her heart was successfully trans- County is in favor of it. spoken in favor of this amendment to- planted to a 56-year-old man who had I know from my days of serving as night. sheriff of Schuylkill County, the citi- been waiting for a year. Her liver was Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- donated to a 23-year-old man; her zens will appreciate not having to drive ance of my time. all the way to Philadelphia to serve on lungs, pancreas and kidneys to four dif- The CHAIRMAN. The question is on ferent patients. Her corneas were do- jury duty. the amendment offered by the gen- I would like to thank the gentleman nated to an eye bank. tleman from New Jersey (Mr. SAXTON). from Kentucky (Mr. ROGERS) and the New Jersey will not forget Alysa The amendment was agreed to. Flatow or the struggle and trauma her gentleman from West Virginia (Mr. AMENDMENT NO. 23 OFFERED BY MR. HOLDEN MOLLOHAN) for their assistance in this family have gone through as a result of Mr. HOLDEN. Mr. Chairman, I offer matter, as well as the gentleman from this heinous act and this senseless loss an amendment. North Carolina (Mr. COBLE) and the of a promising young woman. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Mr. Chairman, we have had enough ignate the amendment. FRANK) for their assistance in the pre- victims. We do not need to victimize The text of the amendment is as fol- vious legislation. the family any longer. Personally, I lows: Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, will the have had enough of negotiating lever- Amendment No. 23 offered by Mr. HOLDEN: gentleman yield? age, quote unquote. It is time that we Page 124, insert the following after line 2: Mr. HOLDEN. I yield to the gen- stood and stood tall for the Flatow TITLE IX—ADDITIONAL GENERAL tleman from Kentucky. family. PROVISIONS Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, we have Mr. SAXTON. Mr. Chairman, I yield SEC. 901. (a) Section 118 of title 28, United examined the amendment and dis- such time as he may consume to the States Code, is amended— cussed it with the gentleman in detail, gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. (1) in subsection (a) by striking ‘‘Philadel- and we have no objection. FOX). phia, and Schuylkill’’ and inserting ‘‘and Mr. HOLDEN. Mr. Chairman, I yield (Mr. FOX of Pennsylvania asked and Philadelphia’’; and back the balance of my time. was given permission to revise and ex- (2) in subsection (b) by inserting ‘‘Schuyl- kill,’’ after ‘‘Potter,’’. The CHAIRMAN. Does any Member tend his remarks.) (b)(1) This section and the amendments claim the time in opposition? Mr. FOX of Pennsylvania. Mr. Chair- made by this section shall take effect 180 If not, the question is on the amend- man, I rise in support of the Saxton days after the date of the enactment of this ment offered by the gentleman from amendment. Act. Pennsylvania (Mr. HOLDEN). August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7269 The amendment was agreed to. person engaged in the business of betting or state or foreign commerce to provide or en- AMENDMENT NO. 35 OFFERED BY MR. STEARNS wagering to accept or place a bet or wager; able computer access by multiple users to a and computer server, including specifically a Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I offer ‘‘(B) does not include— service or system that provides access to the an amendment. ‘‘(i) information concerning parimutuel Internet. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- pools that is exchanged between or among 1 ‘‘(4) INTERNET.—The term ‘Internet’ means ignate the amendment. or more racetracks or other parimutuel wa- the international computer network of both The text of the amendment is as fol- gering facilities licensed by the State or ap- Federal and non-Federal interoperable pack- lows: proved by the foreign jurisdiction in which et switched data networks. ‘‘(5) PERSON.—The term ‘person’ means any Amendment No. 35 offered by Mr. STEARNS: the facility is located, and 1 or more pari- mutuel wagering facilities licensed by the individual, association, partnership, joint TITLE IX—INTERNET GAMBLING State or approved by the foreign jurisdiction venture, corporation, State or political sub- PROHIBITION in which the facility is located, if that infor- division thereof, department, agency, or in- SEC. 901. SHORT TITLE. mation is used only to conduct common pool strumentality of a State or political subdivi- This title may be cited as the ‘‘Internet parimutuel pooling under applicable law; sion thereof, or any other government, orga- Gambling Prohibition Act of 1998’’. ‘‘(ii) information exchanged between or nization, or entity. SEC. 902. DEFINITIONS. among 1 or more racetracks or other pari- ‘‘(6) PRIVATE NETWORK.—The term ‘private Section 1081 of title 18, United States Code, mutuel wagering facilities licensed by the network’ means a communications channel is amended— State or approved by the foreign jurisdiction or channels, including voice or computer (1) in the matter immediately following in which the facility is located, and a sup- data transmission facilities, that use ei- the colon, by designating the first 5 undesig- port service located in another State or for- ther— nated paragraphs as paragraphs (1) through eign jurisdiction, if the information is used ‘‘(A) private dedicated lines; or (5), respectively, and indenting each para- only for processing bets or wagers made with ‘‘(B) the public communications infra- graph 2 ems to the right; and that facility under applicable law; structure, if the infrastructure is secured by (2) by adding at the end the following: ‘‘(iii) information exchanged between or means of the appropriate private commu- ‘‘(6) BETS OR WAGERS.—The term ‘bets or among 1 or more wagering facilities that are nications technology to prevent unauthor- wagers’— located within a single State and are li- ized access. ‘‘(A) means the staking or risking by any censed and regulated by that State, and any ‘‘(7) STATE.—The term ‘State’ means a person of something of value upon the out- support service, wherever located, if the in- State of the United States, the District of come of a contest of others, sporting event of formation is used only for the pooling or Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto others, or of any game of chance, upon an processing of bets or wagers made by or with Rico, or a commonwealth, territory, or pos- agreement or understanding that the person the facility or facilities under applicable session of the United States. or another person will receive something of State law; ‘‘(b) GAMBLING.— value based on that outcome; ‘‘(iv) any news reporting or analysis of wa- ‘‘(1) PROHIBITION.—Subject to subsection ‘‘(B) includes the purchase of a chance or gering activity, including odds, racing or (e), it shall be unlawful for a person know- opportunity to win a lottery or other prize event results, race and event schedules, or ingly to use the Internet or any other inter- (which opportunity to win is predominantly categories of wagering; or active computer service— subject to chance); ‘‘(v) any posting or reporting of any edu- ‘‘(A) to place, receive, or otherwise make a ‘‘(C) includes any scheme of a type de- cational information on how to make a bet bet or wager with any person; or scribed in section 3702 of title 28, United or wager or the nature of betting or wager- ‘‘(B) to send, receive, or invite information States Code; and ing.’’. assisting in the placing of a bet or wager ‘‘(D) does not include— SEC. 903. PROHIBITION ON INTERNET GAMBLING. with the intent to send, receive, or invite in- ‘‘(i) a bona fide business transaction gov- (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 50 of title 18, formation assisting in the placing of a bet or erned by the securities laws (as that term is United States Code, is amended by adding at wager. defined in section 3(a)(47) of the Securities the end the following: ‘‘(2) PENALTIES.—A person who violates paragraph (1) shall be— Exchange Act of 1934 (15 U.S.C. 78c(a)(47))) ‘‘§ 1085. Internet gambling for the purchase or sale at a future date of ‘‘(A) fined in an amount that is not more ‘‘(a) DEFINITIONS.—In this section: than the greater of— securities (as that term is defined in section ‘‘(1) CLOSED-LOOP SUBSCRIBER-BASED SERV- 3(a)(10) of the Securities Exchange Act of ‘‘(i) three times the greater of— ICE.—The term ‘closed-loop subscriber-based ‘‘(I) the total amount that the person is 1934 (15 U.S.C. 78c(a)(10))); service’ means any information service or ‘‘(ii) a transaction on or subject to the found to have wagered through the Internet system that uses— or other interactive computer service; or rules of a contract market designated pursu- ‘‘(A) a device or combination of devices— ant to section 5 of the Commodity Exchange ‘‘(II) the total amount that the person is ‘‘(i) expressly authorized and operated in found to have received as a result of such wa- Act (7 U.S.C. 7); accordance with the laws of a State for the ‘‘(iii) a contract of indemnity or guarantee; gering; or purposes described in subsection (e); and ‘‘(ii) $500; ‘‘(iv) a contract for life, health, or accident ‘‘(ii) by which a person located within a insurance; or ‘‘(B) imprisoned not more than 3 months; State must subscribe to be authorized to or ‘‘(v) participation in a game or contest, place, receive, or otherwise make a bet or otherwise lawful under applicable Federal or ‘‘(C) both. wager, and must be physically located within ‘‘(c) GAMBLING BUSINESSES.— State law— that State in order to be authorized to do so; ‘‘(I) that, by its terms or rules, is not de- ‘‘(1) PROHIBITION.—Subject to subsection ‘‘(B) a customer verification system to en- (e), it shall be unlawful for a person engaged pendent on the outcome of any single sport- sure that all applicable Federal and State ing event, any series or sporting events, any in a gambling business knowingly to use the legal and regulatory requirements for lawful Internet or any other interactive computer tournament, or the individual performance gambling are met; and of 1 or more athletes or teams in a single service— ‘‘(C) appropriate data security standards to ‘‘(A) to place, receive, or otherwise make a sporting event; prevent unauthorized access. ‘‘(II) in which the outcome is determined bet or wager; or ‘‘(2) GAMBLING BUSINESS.—The term ‘gam- ‘‘(B) to send, receive, or invite information by accumulated statistical results of games bling business’ means a business that is con- or contests involving the performances of assisting in the placing of a bet or wager. ducted at a gambling establishment, or ‘‘(2) PENALTIES.—A person engaged in a amateur or professional athletes or teams; that— and gambling business who violates paragraph (1) ‘‘(A) involves— shall be— ‘‘(III) in which the winner or winners may ‘‘(i) the placing, receiving, or otherwise receive a prize or award; ‘‘(A) fined in an amount that is not more making of bets or wagers; or than the greater of— (otherwise known as a ‘fantasy sport league’ ‘‘(ii) offers to engage in placing, receiving, ‘‘(i) the amount that such person received or a ‘rotisserie league’) if such participation or otherwise making bets or wagers; in bets or wagers as a result of engaging in is without charge to the participant or any ‘‘(B) involves 1 or more persons who con- that business in violation of this subsection; charge to a participant is limited to a rea- duct, finance, manage, supervise, direct, or or sonable administrative fee. own all or part of such business; and ‘‘(ii) $20,000; ‘‘(7) FOREIGN JURISDICTION.—The term ‘for- ‘‘(C) has been or remains in substantially ‘‘(B) imprisoned not more than 4 years; or eign jurisdiction’ means a jurisdiction of a continuous operation for a period in excess ‘‘(C) both. foreign country or political subdivision of 10 days or has a gross revenue of $2,000 or ‘‘(d) PERMANENT INJUNCTIONS.—Upon con- thereof. more during any 24-hour period. viction of a person under this section, the ‘‘(8) INFORMATION ASSISTING IN THE PLACING ‘‘(3) INTERACTIVE COMPUTER SERVICE.—The court may, as an additional penalty, enter a OF A BET OR WAGER.—The term ‘information term ‘interactive computer service’ means permanent injunction enjoining the trans- assisting in the placing of a bet or wager’— any information service, system, or access mission of bets or wagers or information as- ‘‘(A) means information that is intended software provider that uses a public commu- sisting in the placing of a bet or wager. by the sender or recipient to be used by a nication infrastructure or operates in inter- ‘‘(e) EXCEPTIONS.— H7270 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998

‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Subject to paragraph (2), have occurred, or may occur, after providing States Code, as added by section 903, relating the prohibitions in this section shall not written notice to the United States, may in- to material or activity located within the apply to any— stitute proceedings under this section. Upon United States, whether less burdensome, but ‘‘(A) otherwise lawful bet or wager that is application of the attorney general (or other comparably effective means are available to placed, received, or otherwise made wholly appropriate State official) of the affected block access by a customer of the service’s intrastate for a State lottery or a racing or State, the district court may enter a tem- system or network to information or activ- parimutuel activity, or a multi-State lottery porary restraining order or an injunction ity that violates such section 1085. operated jointly between 2 or more States in against any person to prevent a violation of (C) FINDINGS.—In any order issued by the conjunction with State lotteries, (if the lot- section 1085 of title 18, United States Code, court under this subsection, the court shall tery or activity is expressly authorized, and as added by section 903, if the court deter- set forth the reasons for its issuance, shall licensed or regulated, under applicable Fed- mines, after notice and an opportunity for a be specific in its terms, and shall describe in eral or State law) on— hearing, that there is a substantial prob- reasonable detail, and not be reference to the ‘‘(i) an interactive computer service that ability that such violation has occurred or complaint or other document, the act or acts uses a private network, if each person plac- will occur. sought to be restrained and the general steps ing or otherwise making that bet or wager is (B) INDIAN LANDS.—With respect to a viola- to be taken to comply with the order. physically located at a facility that is open tion of section 1085 of title 18, United States (4) EXPIRATION.—Any temporary restrain- to the general public; or Code, as added by section 903, that is alleged ing order or preliminary injunction entered ‘‘(ii) a closed-loop subscriber-based service to have occurred, or may occur, on Indian pursuant to this subsection shall expire if, that is wholly intrastate; or lands (as defined in section 4 of the Indian and as soon as, the United States, or the at- ‘‘(B) otherwise lawful bet or wager for class Gaming Regulatory Act (25 U.S.C. 2703)), the torney general (or other appropriate State II or class III gaming (as defined in section 4 enforcement authority under subparagraph official) of the State, as applicable, notifies of the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act (25 (A) shall be limited to the remedies under the court that issued the injunction that the U.S.C. 2703)) that is placed, received, or oth- the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act (25 U.S.C. United States or the State, as applicable, erwise made on a closed-loop subscriber- 2701 et seq.), including any applicable Tribal- will not seek a permanent injunction. based service or an interactive computer State compact negotiated under section 11 of (c) EXPEDITED PROCEEDINGS.— service that uses a private network, if— that Act (25 U.S.C. 2710). (1) IN GENERAL.—In addition to proceedings ‘‘(i) each person placing, receiving, or oth- (3) ORDERS AND INJUNCTIONS AGAINST INTER- under subsection (b), a district court may erwise making that bet or wager is phys- NET SERVICE PROVIDERS.—Notwithstanding enter a temporary restraining order against ically located on Indian land; and paragraph (1) or (2), the following rules shall a person alleged to be in violation of section ‘‘(ii) all games that constitute class III apply in any proceeding instituted under this 1085 of title 18, United States Code, as added gaming are conducted in accordance with an subsection in which application is made for a by section 903, upon application of the applicable Tribal-State compact entered into temporary restraining order or an injunction United States under subsection (b)(1), or the under section 11(d) of the Indian Gaming against an interactive computer service: attorney general (or other appropriate State Regulatory Act (25 U.S.C. 2701(d)) by a State (A) SCOPE OF RELIEF.— official) of an affected State under sub- in which each person placing, receiving, or (i) If the violation of section 1085 of title section (b)(2), without notice and the oppor- 18, United States Code, originates with a cus- otherwise making that bet or wager is phys- tunity for a hearing, if the United States or tomer of the interactive computer service’s ically located. the State, as applicable, demonstrates that system or network, the court may require ‘‘(2) INAPPLICABILITY OF EXCEPTION TO BETS there is probable cause to believe that the the service to terminate the specified ac- OR WAGERS MADE BY AGENTS OR PROXIES.—An transmission at issue violates section 1085 of count or accounts of the customer, or of any exception under subparagraph (A) or (B) of title 18, United States Code, as added by sec- readily identifiable successor in interest, paragraph (1) shall not apply in any case in tion 903. who is using such service to place, receive or which a bet or wager is placed, received, or (2) EXPIRATION.—A temporary restraining otherwise make a bet or wager, engage in a otherwise made by the use of an agent or order entered under this subsection shall ex- gambling business, or to initiate a trans- proxy using the Internet or an interactive pire on the earlier of— mission that violates such section 1085. (A) the expiration of the 30-day period be- computer service. Nothing in this paragraph (ii) Any other relief ordered by the court ginning on the date on which the order is en- shall be construed to prohibit the owner op- shall be technically feasible for the system tered; or erator of a parimutuel wagering facility that or network in question under current condi- (B) the date on which a preliminary injunc- is licensed by a State from employing an tions, reasonably effective in preventing a tion is granted or denied. agent in the operation of the account wager- violation of section 1085, of title 18, United (3) HEARINGS.—A hearing requested con- ing system owned or operated by the pari- States Code, and shall not unreasonably cerning an order entered under this sub- mutuel facility. interfere with access to lawful material at section shall be held at the earliest prac- ‘‘(f) STATE LAW.—Nothing in this section other online locations. ticable time. shall be construed to create immunity from (iii) No relief shall be issued under sub- (d) RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.—In the absence criminal prosecution or civil liability under paragraph (A)(ii) if the interactive computer of fraud or bad faith, no interactive com- the law of any State.’’. service demonstrates, after an opportunity puter service (as defined in section 1085(a) of (b) TECHNICAL AMENDMENT.—The analysis to appear at a hearing, that such relief is not title 18, United States Code, as added by sec- for chapter 50 of title 18, United States Code, economically reasonable for the system or tion 903) shall be liable for any damages, pen- is amended by adding at the end the follow- network in question under current condi- alty, or forfeiture, civil or criminal, for any ing: tions. reasonable course of action taken to comply ‘‘1085. Internet gambling.’’. (B) CONSIDERATIONS.—In the case of an ap- with a court order issued under subsection SEC. 904. CIVIL REMEDIES. plication for relief under subparagraph (b) or (c) of this section. (a) IN GENERAL.—The district courts of the (A)(ii), the court shall consider, in addition (e) PROTECTION OF PRIVACY.—Nothing in United States shall have original and exclu- to all other factors that the court shall con- this title or the amendments made by this sive jurisdiction to prevent and restrain vio- sider in the exercise of its equitable discre- title shall be construed to authorize an af- lations of section 1085 of title 18, United tion, whether— firmative obligation on an interactive com- States Code, as added by section 903, by (i) such relief either singularly or in com- puter service— issuing appropriate orders. bination with such other injunctions issued (1) to monitor use of its service; or (b) PROCEEDINGS.— against the same service under this sub- (2) except as required by an order of a (1) INSTITUTION BY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.— section, would seriously burden the oper- court, to access, remove or disable access to The United States may institute proceedings ation of the service’s system network com- material where such material reveals con- under this section. Upon application of the pared with other comparably effective means duct prohibited by this section and the United States, the district court may enter a of preventing violations of section 1085 of amendments made by this section. temporary restraining order or an injunction title 18, United States Code; (f) NO EFFECT ON OTHER REMEDIES.—Noth- against any person to prevent a violation of (ii) in the case of an application for a tem- ing in this section shall be construed to af- section 1085 of title 18, United States Code, porary restraining order or an injunction to fect any remedy under section 1084 or 1085 of as added by section 903, if the court deter- prevent a violation of section 1085 of title 18, title 18, United States Code, as amended by mines, after notice and an opportunity for a United States Code, by a gambling business this title, or under any other Federal or hearing, that there is a substantial prob- (as is defined in such section 1085) located State law. The availability of relief under ability that such violation has occurred or outside the United States, the relief is more this section shall not depend on, or be af- will occur. burdensome to the service than taking com- fected by, the initiation or resolution of any (2) INSTITUTION BY STATE ATTORNEY GEN- parably effective steps to block access to action under section 1084 or 1085 of title 18, ERAL.— specific, identified sites used by the gam- United States Code, as amended by this title, (A) IN GENERAL.—Subject to subparagraph bling business located outside the United or under any other Federal or State law. (B), the attorney general of a State (or other States; and (g) CONTINUOUS JURISDICTION.—The court appropriate State official) in which a viola- (iii) in the case of an application for a tem- shall have continuous jurisdiction under this tion of section 1085 of title 18, United States porary order or an injunction to prevent a section to enforce section 1085 of title 18, Code, as added by section 903, is alleged to violation of section 1085 of title 18, United United States Code, as added by section 903. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7271 SEC. 905. REPORT ON ENFORCEMENT. merce, as well as from the National ing with the National Indian Gaming Not later than 3 years after the date of en- Football League, the National Colle- Commission which was established actment of this Act, the Attorney General giate Athletic Association, National under the Indian Gaming Regulatory shall submit a report to Congress that in- cludes— Association of Attorneys General and Act passed by Congress in 1988. I cer- (1) an analysis of the problems, if any, as- other groups that are adversely af- tainly share his concern on this Inter- sociated with enforcing section 1085 of title fected with the continuance of Internet net gaming. 18, United States Code, as added by section gambling. The National Indian Gaming Com- 903; Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gen- mission is the Federal entity that (2) recommendations for the best use of the tleman from Virginia (Mr. GOODLATTE). should enforce the restrictions on In- resources of the Department of Justice to en- Mr. GOODLATTE. Mr. Chairman, I dian Internet gaming under the gentle- force that section; and appreciate the gentleman’s interest in man’s bill. (3) an estimate of the amount of activity this issue. Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I and money being used to gamble on the As he knows, illegal gambling on the Internet. thank the gentleman. I think we can Internet is a rapidly growing industry. SEC. 906. REPORT ON COSTS. also take that into account. Not later than 3 years after the date of en- The Justice Department estimates that The CHAIRMAN. The time of the actment of this Act, the Secretary of Com- $600 million was bet illegally on sports gentleman from Florida (Mr. STEARNS) merce shall submit a report to Congress that alone over the Internet last year, a has expired. includes— tenfold increase over the previous year. Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I claim (1) an analysis of existing and potential I applaud my friend from Arizona, Mr. the time in opposition to the amend- methods or technologies for filtering or KYL, in the Senate for moving legisla- ment. screening transmissions in violation of sec- tion in the other body. I want to assure The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman tion 1085 of title 18, United States Code, as my friend from Florida that we are added by section 903, that originate outside from Kentucky (Mr. ROGERS) is recog- of the territorial boundaries of any State or currently working in the Committee on nized for 21⁄2 minutes. the United States; the Judiciary to move corresponding Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I yield (2) a review of the effect, if any, on inter- legislation before the August recess. such time as he may consume to the active computer services of any court or- I thank the gentleman for yielding, and I ap- gentleman from Florida (Mr. STEARNS). dered temporary restraining orders or in- preciate the Gentleman's interest in this issue. Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I yield junctions imposed on those services under Illegal gambling on the internet is a rapidly to gentleman from Nevada (Mr. GIB- this section; growing industryÐthe Justice Department esti- BONS). (3) a calculation of the cost to the economy mates that $600 million was bet illegally on Mr. GIBBONS. Mr. Chairman, I ap- of illegal gambling on the Internet, and sports alone over the internet last year, a ten- other societal costs of such gambling; and plaud my friend and colleague from (4) an estimate of the effect, if any, on the fold increase over 1996. Congress must take Florida for his interest in placing a ban Internet caused by any court ordered tem- action this year to curb illegal internet gam- on Internet gambling. This issue not porary restraining orders or injunctions im- bling, and I have introduced legislation that only is very important to the people of posed under this title. would clamp down on this type of activity. Nevada but absolutely is essential to SEC. 907. SEVERABILITY. I applaud my friend from Arizona for moving protect American children as well as If any provision of this title, an amend- legislation in the other body to address this the integrity of the legalized gambling ment made by this title, or the application issue, and I want to assure my friend from industry. of such provision or amendment to any per- Florida that we are currently working in the Ju- Allowing gambling to be performed son or circumstance is held to be unconstitu- diciary Committee to move corresponding leg- tional, the remainder of this title, the on the Internet would open the flood- amendments made by this title, and the ap- islation before the August recess. As my friend gates for corruption, abuse and fraud. plication of the provisions of such to any is aware, however, a number of areas and Internet gambling is a virtual Pan- person or circumstance shall not be affected concerns surrounding this issue are still out- dora’s box that, if opened, would have thereby. standing, and I want to assure the Gentleman an irreversible effect on millions of Mr. MILLER of California. Mr. Chair- that we are currently working with all parties to American people. man, I reserve a point of order on the resolve those issues as we continue to move Banning Internet gaming is nec- amendment. the process forward. I would therefore at this essary to prevent widespread abuse The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman time ask that the Gentleman withdraw his from occurring. Unscrupulous opera- from California (Mr. MILLER) reserves a amendment, so that we might continue work- tors could bilk millions of dollars out point of order. ing through the Committee process to produce of unsuspecting customers, leaving the Pursuant to the previous order of the a strong piece of legislation to combat internet affected without recourse. House of today, the gentleman from gambling. b 2145 Florida (Mr. STEARNS) and a Member Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I opposed each will control 21⁄2 minutes. thank the gentleman. I recognize there Another risk presented by Internet The Chair recognizes the gentleman are some areas of the Senate bill that gaming involves young children in reg- from Florida (Mr. STEARNS). need to be improved and clarified, par- ulated gaming establishments all Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I yield ticularly with the treatment of sports across this country. Security guards myself such time as I may consume. fantasy and educational games and are required to check by law the identi- I tell my colleague who objected, I treatment of advertising. As the proc- fication of anyone appearing to be intend to withdraw this amendment ess moves forward in the House, I look below the age of 21. With Internet gam- after a short statement, after engaging forward to working with the gen- ing, however, minors, armed with noth- in a colloquy with a few Members on tleman. ing more than a credit card number, my side and also one on his side. Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gen- could easily access these gaming sites I realize that prohibiting Internet tleman from Michigan (Mr. KILDEE). and literally squander their families’ gambling is a hot button issue today, Mr. KILDEE. Mr. Chairman, I share savings and income. Mr. Chairman, on but I think there is a majority in Con- the concern of the gentleman that the Internet gaming children can es- gress that strongly believes that such a Internet gaming is a very serious prob- tablish overseas betting accounts easi- prohibition is needed to prevent the lem. It is my understanding that the er than they can sneak into an R-rated disease of gambling from infecting the gentleman is going to withdraw his movie. Internet. That is why I have offered the amendment and that the chairman of With all the rise in computers and same bill that Senator KYL has offered the Committee on Commerce has Internet access, Internet gaming oper- in the Senate that passed by 90 to 10, agreed to hold a hearing on his bill in ations are growing equally as fast. We and I believe introducing the Kyl lan- September. must not forget that there are millions guage here in the House would be very I appreciate that the gentleman has of innocent users that could become se- important. agreed to consider an amendment, I rious victims if we are not careful in I want to move that forward. I have hope the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. managing this incredible tool. received strong support both in the GOODLATTE) would, too, that would There are 50 million households with com- committee, the Committee on Com- leave the enforcement of Indian gam- puters and 25 million of these computers have H7272 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 access to the Internet. Experts are predicting The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to the the innocent Americans that would be an explosion in the growth of households with order of the House today, the gen- lost. Please join me in approving this Internet access. By the turn of the century, tleman from Indiana (Mr. MCINTOSH) amendment to the bill. most schools and libraries will be on-line. It is and a Member opposed will each con- Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance important to recognize that the computer in- trol 10 minutes. of my time. dustry is not the only one profiting off of the The Chair recognizes the gentleman Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise in explosion in computer availability. Internet from Indiana (Mr. MCINTOSH). opposition to this amendment, and I gaming operations are growing equally as fast. Mr. MCINTOSH. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 5 minutes. Most would agree that the Internet is a great yield myself 21⁄2 minutes. Mr. Chairman, I want to state from educational tool and an extremely valuable How quickly we forget, or fail to the outset that the intent of this source for all sorts of information. This re- learn the most important lessons of amendment is a blatant attempt to ne- source must be shielded from the dangers as- history. It was just 60 years ago when gate the United States’ obligation to sociated with its unrestricted use. We must not Winston Churchill struggled mightily continue to adhere to the antiballistic forget that there are millions of innocent users to build a defensive air radar system in missile treaty so that proponents of de- that could become serious victims if we are Britain to protect against Nazi threat. ployment of additional missile defense not careful in managing this incredible tool. The British establishment, the appeas- systems in the U.S. can justify their Mr. Chairman, I applaud Mr. STEARNS for ers, as he called them, mocked and campaign to deploy just such a system. brining this issue to the House floor. scoffed him for this effort. They said In my view, the deployment of such Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I yield there was no threat. How wrong they additional systems would not only vio- myself such time as I may consume to were. Because Churchill persevered, late U.S. treaty obligations with Rus- recognize the hard work that other they did build a radar system and beat sia but, more importantly, would de- Members have done here tonight and the Nazis. stabilize our national security by set- also to recognize my good friend, the Today, we are engaged in a similar ting back ongoing arms control nego- debate. The cosponsor of this amend- tiations with Russia and other former gentleman from Florida (Mr. MCCOL- ment, the gentleman from Pennsyl- Soviet republics, and by encouraging LUM), who has worked hard on this, as well as the gentleman from New Jersey vania (Mr. WELDON), has worked to newly emerging nuclear states to pro- bring to our attention since 1995, and ceed without restrictions. (Mr. LOBIONDO) and others who are sup- the gentleman from Louisiana (Mr. Many of the proponents of this porting this. amendment continue to be critical of Mr. MILLER of California. Mr. Chair- LIVINGSTON), for many, many years, this administration’s policies to re- man, will the gentleman yield? that there is a real threat of a ballistic Mr. STEARNS. I yield to the gen- missile attack on the United States. strain India and Pakistan from con- ducting nuclear tests. Now, their ef- tleman from Florida. Yet the State Department establish- Mr. MILLER of California. Mr. Chair- ment, like that of Britain in the 1930s, forts may have fallen short of their man, I thank the gentleman for yield- ignores or ridicules those who recog- goals and, indeed, the world has be- ing and thank him for withdrawing the nize a missile threat, but they do so at come less secure today as a result. But amendment and appreciate the con- each of our peril. the question is what is the next step? The gentleman from Pennsylvania The proponents of this amendment cerns he has raised about further re- (Mr. WELDON) and I are introducing would have us throw out a standing finement of this amendment and legis- this amendment because the American arms control treaty that has been in lation. place since 1972 so that they can pursue I also want to raise concerns about people deserve to have a choice in this decision. The Clinton administration is an expensive and widely premature the treatment of the Indian Gaming trying to negotiate a new antiballistic plan to deploy an elaborate missile de- Regulatory Act under the provisions of missile treaty with the four successor fense system that is years away from the amendment as written, and would states to the Soviet Union and to im- being able to work. hope that they would take into consid- plement it without sending it to the The administration’s intentions with eration the fact that that is the Fed- Senate for ratification. respect to the Memorandum of Under- eral regulatory agency for the regula- Now, a complete, fair and open de- standing on the ABM Treaty’s succes- tion of Indian gaming. bate is needed on renewing this ABM sion have been made abundantly clear Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I ask Treaty, and the Senate should have the and are enunciated in a letter of May unanimous consent to withdraw my opportunity to act properly and ratify 21st from the President to the chair- amendment. any such treaty. man of the authorizing committees. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection The fact is, today we do not have the That letter says plainly that the ad- to the request of the gentleman from ability to intercept a single missile ministration ‘‘will provide to the Sen- Florida? fired at us by an enemy or a madman. ate, for its advice and consent, the There was no objection. Americans would be shocked if they Memorandum of Understanding of the The CHAIRMAN. The amendment is found this out, but it is the truth. ABM Treaty’s succession.’’ The letter withdrawn. What is even worse about this new further clarifies that, ‘‘Despite the AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. MCINTOSH ABM Treaty is not only will a national breakup of the Soviet Union, the ABM Mr. MCINTOSH. Mr. Chairman, I missile defense system not be possible, Treaty is still in force with Russia and offer an amendment. but there are new restrictions on a the- notification of the MOU is necessary to The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- ater missile defense program that remove any ambiguities about how the ignate the amendment. could protect our troops overseas. treaty applies to other countries.’’ The text of the amendment is as fol- My amendment, quite simply, would It is also clearly the understanding lows: say the bureaucracy responsible for im- that the administration intends to sub- Amendment offered by Mr. MCINTOSH: plementing the ABM Treaty cannot mit the MOU on the ABM Treaty’s suc- At the end of the bill (immediately before spend any funds for further implement- cession after the Russian Duma has the short title), insert the following new sec- ratified START II. The timing of the tion: ing the new treaty or any policies con- SEC. . None of the funds appropriated or sistent with a new treaty. submission to the Senate is based on otherwise made available by this Act may be Mr. Chairman, I finish by asking my the orderly progression of arms control used for participation by United States dele- colleagues a rhetorical question. What regimes and was, in fact, developed in gates to the Standing Consultative Commis- would they do the day after a missile cooperation with the relevant parties sion in any activity of the Commission to attack from Iran, Iraq, Libya, or North of the U.S. Senate. implement the Memorandum of Understand- Korea destroyed one of our cities? The This amendment stops all activity to ing Relating to the Treaty Between the very next day we would all be on this bring the Memorandum of Understand- United States of America and the Union of ing on the ABM Treaty’s succession to Soviet Socialist Republics on the Limitation House floor demanding there be con- of Anti-Ballistic Missile Systems of May 26, struction of such a missile protection reality. I wonder how the passage of 1972, entered into in New York on September system repelling such an attack. this amendment will affect the Russian 26, 1997, by the United States, Russia, Why wait for the tragedy? Let us do Duma and the prospects of their ac- Kazakhstan, Belarus, and Ukraine. something now and spare the lives of tion? I wonder what signals it sends to August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7273 India and Pakistan, who are on the I urge the adoption of the gentle- afield on the whole regime of nuclear verge of war in Kashmir, both armed man’s amendment. arms limitation. with nuclear weapons? Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield 21⁄2 Mr. MCINTOSH. Mr. Chairman, how A vote for this amendment is a vote minutes to the gentleman from Colo- much time is remaining on both sides? to unilaterally abrogate the ABM Trea- rado (Mr. SKAGGS). The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman ty on the basis of 20 minutes debate in Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, let us from Indiana (Mr. MCINTOSH) has 51⁄2 the middle of the night. That is what understand what this is really all minutes remaining and the gentleman this supposedly modest amendment about. this is the de facto abrogation of from Wisconsin (Mr. OBEY) has 5 min- tries to do. A vote against this amend- the ABM Treaty because we would be utes remaining, and the right to close. ment is a vote to recognize that Con- prohibited, under the terms of this Mr. MCINTOSH. Mr. Chairman, I gress should not take such irrespon- amendment, from participating in the yield myself such time as I may con- sible actions without clearly thinking Standing Consultative Committee sume. out the consequences. under the ABM Treaty, which is the Mr. Chairman, I would note that the Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance body that deals with compliance issues. proponents of ABM refer to that sys- of my time. How will that be interpreted by the tem as MAD. If they think this is nuts, Mr. MCINTOSH. Mr. Chairman, I Russians who are still debating START that is MAD, mutually assured de- yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from II ratification? It will be seen by them struction. It is truly madness that we Louisiana (Mr. LIVINGSTON), the chair- as essentially an abrogation, as the would hold innocent populations hos- man of the Committee on Appropria- start down the road toward the devel- tage the way we have. tions. opment of a broad missile defense sys- Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to (Mr. LIVINGSTON asked and was tem in this country. the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. given permission to revise and extend That, in turn, will mean that all of WELDON). his remarks.) our efforts to reduce nuclear missile (Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania asked Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Chairman, I armaments in the old Soviet Union, and was given permission to revise and rise in support of the gentleman’s now in Russia, will grind to a halt and extend his remarks.) amendment. play directly into the hands of the na- b 2200 I think about the ABM Treaty that tionalist sentiments in Russia to hang Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania. Mr. was implemented between the Soviet on to every missile that they now pos- Chairman, let us get our facts straight Union and the United States in 1972 in sess. here. I chair the Duma Congress Study an entirely different political world Now, if we think that is going to Group. I probably spend as much time and in an entirely different techno- produce a more secure world for the with members of Duma as any Member logical world. Those were different United States, I beg to differ. of this Congress. In fact, I know over times. They threatened to blow us up, This is fundamentally, profoundly 200 of them personally. we threatened to blow them up. nuts. It is going in absolutely the Let us not put rhetoric on the table. The Soviet Union does not exist any wrong direction. It is inviting an ag- Let us talk about this amendment. more, but the ABM Treaty is here, not- gravation in a very, very dicey and This amendment does not abrogate the withstanding the fact that the techno- delicate path that we are trying to ABM Treaty. In fact, I have been the logical developments of the computer walk down, nuclear disarmament and one to offer to stand up and oppose any age have totally transformed this dan- the reduction of nuclear arms. attempt to deliberately abrogate the gerous world of ours. Now, if that is what the other side Treaty. Look at the headlines: May 1st. wants, so be it, but let us not pretend What does it do? It stops this admin- China targets nukes at the U.S. June that anything else is at issue here but istration from imposing significant 16th. China assists Iran, Libya with that fundamental question of a fork in amendments and expansion of the ABM missiles. June 17th. North Korea ad- the road. Do we want to continue to Treaty that harm our national security mits missile sales. Then we see the In- work with the Russians to reduce their without the advice and consent of the dian and the Pakistani bombs blow up. stockpiles, to get the START III, to Senate. That is all it does. We are living in a nuclear age and bring down the level of nuclear threat Five times this body has gone on the the arms negotiators are still negotiat- in the world? record and said that the U.S. Senate ing a 1972 treaty with the old Soviet Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Chairman, must be consulted. The ranking mem- Union that does not even exist. will the gentleman yield? ber of the full Committee on Appro- We have to give up this arms negotia- Mr. SKAGGS. I yield to the gen- priations just made a statement. He tion. It does not work. Let us defend tleman from Louisiana. said the President said he will submit Americans. Let us start deploying mis- Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Chairman, that to the Senate. sile systems that intercept their mis- will the gentleman acknowledge that Well, I will call to the attention of siles and we do not have to worry about despite the passage of some 5 years’ of my colleague and friend a letter sent who blows up the next bomb in the time the Russians have yet to even rat- on May 1, 1998, by Secretary Cohen to next place. ify START II, let alone START III? the services saying, ‘‘you will begin to We need do defend our American citi- Mr. SKAGGS. We have already ac- implement the Missile Defense Treaty zens. We need to defend the continental knowledged that and it is a pre- signed.’’ That has already been done. United States. We need to defend U.S. requisite to getting to START III, And following that, the Secretary for troops abroad. We need to defend our which I assume the gentleman would Research and Development, John allies all around the world. agree would be in our national interest, Douglas, has begun already implement- We could do it if this President use but maybe not. Maybe he thinks we ing this agreement without the Senate one word that has been absent in his should hang on to more nuclear weap- even being considered to give the docu- vocabulary in the 6 years that he has ons. ment to them. That is already in place. been President of the United States: Mr. LIVINGSTON. If the gentleman What we are saying is give the Sen- Deployment, deployment of missile de- will continue to yield, I think the first ate the chance. Why do we say that? fense systems. thing to do is to defend the American Now, the gentleman talked about the This gentleman’s amendment simple people. negotiations in Geneva. I went there. I says, let us stop this arms negotiation, Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, re- think I am the only House member or at least if you are going to revise claiming my time, that is the practical that sat across from General Koltunof, the ABM Treaty of 1972, come to the consequence of the adoption of this the chief Russian negotiator, for 21⁄2 Senate for the advice and consent de- amendment. Members should be under hours. manded under the Constitution of the no allusion to the contrary. This I said to the general, why do you United States and make sure that what amendment guts the ABM. It prohibits want to expand the Treaty to include you are doing has any logic and com- our participation in compliance activi- Belorus, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine? mon sense whatsoever, because right ties. It will be seen, without any ques- They do not have ICBMs. He said, con- now it does not. tion, by the Russians as a reversal gressman, you are asking that question H7274 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 to the wrong person. We did propose to larger than ever in terms of the prob- to proceed with implementing new mis- expand the ABM Treaty. The gen- lems, I think it is appropriate to think sile defense treaties. Agreed to in Sep- tleman sitting next to you, Stanley about and reconsider questions of mis- tember of 1997. Rivilus, our chief negotiator. sile defenses. It is already underway. It is preced- Why do we want to expand the ABM The fact is every single active pro- ing even giving the treaty to the Sen- Treaty, because it locks us into a trea- gram that we are involved in the area ate which this body has voted on 5 ty that we cannot modify for our own of theater missile defenses PAC–3, times overwhelmingly in favor of. You best interests. What about the demar- THAAD, U.S. Navy Area Wide, all have to match the facts with the rhet- cation limitations, the other expan- under development, researched, every oric, and the rhetoric coming from that sion? The demarcation limitations do one of them as currently configured side just does not match the facts. Sup- not down our missile defense capabil- and designed are fully compliant with port the amendment of the gentleman. ity. the ABM Treaty. Mr. MCINTOSH. Mr. Chairman, I Let me show my colleagues some- This is a question about the breakup yield 30 seconds to the gentleman from thing that I got today. This is a docu- of the Soviet Union, when we signed, Florida (Mr. STEARNS). ment of the most capable Russian air just like we did with START II, when Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, let me defense system that they just tried to we signed those obligations to the suc- just say we have had a vote earlier on sell to Israel. This system we cannot cessor states, Russia, Kazakhstan, the Kolbe amendment. Perhaps my col- match. It is better than PAC–3 when it Ukraine, Belorus, whether those obli- leagues saw the Kolbe amendment is deployed. It is called the ANTEI– gations are going to apply. pass. I think it was almost 400. 2500. The administration has made it abso- The problem is here in the House we This system, I wonder where the de- lutely clear, as soon as the Duma rati- are starting to feel the President is marcation numbers came from. This fies START II, the President is going moving out not just on his own agenda, system just barely complies with them. to Russia to advance that cause in the whether it be domestic or social, he is So now what we found is this adminis- next few weeks, he will submit to the also moving out on a military agenda. tration has agreed to demarcation Senate for ratification not only the As the gentleman from Pennsylvania standards that benefit Russia, that memorandum of understanding but the (Mr. WELDON) mentioned, he is using give Russia a capability that we cannot two agreements related to it that are the word ‘‘proceed’’ forward with a go beyond, even though this system is cause of concern. treaty without going to the Senate to better than our PAC–3. The Senate will have every oppor- ratify. If my colleagues support Israel, if tunity to exercise its constitutional So it is appropriate today, tonight they support Israel’s defense, if they rights with respect to these particular when we think about the executive or- support the defense of this country and issues. ders, to also put in perspective that the our ability to develop capable theater Stopping the funding for the Stand- President is moving out on a defense missile defense systems, then they will ing Consultative Committee and for agenda without Congress, and all my support this amendment. All it does is our ability to participate in it does not colleague is saying is hold it, hold it. it says that we will withhold the fund- advance the cause. Let us get down to Let us not move forward without the ing from ACTA until the Senate is the basic questions. What kinds of mis- Senate. given the required documentation. sile defenses are feasible? To what ex- Mr. MCINTOSH. Mr. Chairman, I That is all it does. tent do we need to break out of ABM? yield myself such time as I may con- It does not abrogate any treaty. It To what extent do we have a strategy sume. does not control the administration. It to do this in cooperation with Russia I would point out that in 1996, this says, let the Congress play its rightful and the other parties down to the ABM House passed a virtually identical role. And I think this Congress de- agreement in a way that both is in our amendment that the gentleman from serves to do that because we need to interests and something that we can Louisiana (Mr. LIVINGSTON) brought to understand our lives and our friends convince is in their interest as well so the floor. and our allies who are at risk here. we can protect against the concerns Mr. Chairman, I yield the remaining Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, how much that the proponents of this amendment 45 seconds to the gentleman from Ohio time do I have remaining? want? (Mr. CHABOT). The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman I urge a no vote on the amendment. Mr. CHABOT. Mr. Chairman, I thank from Wisconsin has 5 minutes remain- Mr. McINTOSH. Mr. Chairman, how the gentleman for yielding. ing. much time is remaining? I rise in strong support of the Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield my- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman McIntosh-Weldon amendment. The self 30 seconds. from Indiana (Mr. MCINTOSH) has 21⁄4 Clinton administration’s record on With all due respect to the expertise minutes remaining. The gentleman missile defense has been very, very of the gentleman who just spoke, for from Wisconsin (Mr. OBEY) has 21⁄2 min- weak. Incredibly, on June 23, the Presi- this Congress, at a little after 10:00 in utes remaining. dent vetoed the Iran Missile Prolifera- the evening, with no hearings and no Mr. MCINTOSH. Mr. Chairman, I tion Sanction Act. And only one month reasonably thoughtful debate on the yield 1 minute to the gentleman from later, on July 23, the White House con- subject, for this Congress to take an Pennsylvania (Mr. WELDON). firmed that Iran had tested a missile action which prevents this administra- Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania. Mr. with a range of 800 miles the previous tion from proceeding to do anything to Chairman, let me answer the distin- day. modernize the very treaty that the guished ranking member. Clearly, Cold War or no Cold War, the other side says must be modernized First of all, he says there has been no world remains a very dangerous place. would be the consummate act of arro- debate on this issue. I would remind Unfortunately, the Clinton administra- gance and ridiculousness performed by my colleague there have been 5 sepa- tion consistently fails to see that dan- this Congress in the entire session. It rate votes on this issue on this floor. ger. would bring great discredit on the Con- And I will include those votes, in the Rogue nations are continuing to at- gress, and we ought not to do that. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. tempt to acquire nuclear weaponry. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to Since 1995, this body has voted 5 And our liberal friends are always say- the gentleman from California (Mr. times, overwhelmingly each time, to ing that we must do this for the chil- BERMAN). require that this administration before dren, do that for the children. If we Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I thank it takes plans to implement submit really want to do something for the the gentleman for yielding. that treaty to the Senate. children of this Nation, we ought to This is not an issue about the role of Our point is that this administration make sure that they are protected missile defenses. In the wake of the end is already implementing the terms of from the threat of nuclear weapons of the Cold War and in the context of a the agreement. I just read to the gen- falling upon their home towns. very dangerous world where rogue tleman a letter dated May 1, 1998, from Mr. MCINTOSH. Mr. Chairman, I states and accidental launches loom Secretary Cohen to the services saying yield such time as he may consume to August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7275 the gentleman from New York (Mr. tem. If it is tested against an ICBM to include such an exception in the text of the FOSSELLA). speed RV, then it is a strategic system. amendment. I am sure that this is a matter (Mr. FOSSELLA asked and was given It is a practical distinction. I do not that will be addressed in conference. permission to revise and extend his re- think it serves a great deal of purpose. It is a very good amendment, and it de- marks.) But, for the time being, in order to serves our support. Mr. FOSSELLA. Mr. Chairman, I rise maintain our relations with the Sovi- HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, in support of this amendment. ets, with the Russians, to stabilize COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, could I in- them to try to get START II ratified RELATIONS, Washington, DC, June 16, 1997. quire how much time I have remain- and START III negotiated, it makes The PRESIDENT, ing? sense not to rattle their cage on the The White House, The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman ABM Treaty. Washington, DC. from Wisconsin (Mr. OBEY) has 21⁄2 min- This is not the kind of diplomacy or DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: Last week the House utes remaining. legislation we need now. It is not nec- of Representatives approved H.R. 1758, the Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield my- essary. The law is already on the ‘‘European Security Act of 1997.’’ I originally self 30 seconds. books. And it is not going to impede introduced this legislation on April 24th of Mr. Chairman, if the gentleman from this year with the cosponsorship of Dick one single thing if these demarcation Armey, Jerry Solomon, Porter Goss, Curt Pennsylvania (Mr. WELDON) is going to rules were implemented by the Presi- Weldon, and others to address a number of quote me, just for the heck of it, it dent. issues bearing on U.S. relations with Russia. would be nice if he would quote me ac- Mr. GILMAN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support Pursuant to House Resolution 159, the Eu- curately. of the amendment offered by the distinguished ropean Security Act as passed by the House I never said that there was no debate gentleman form Indiana, Mr. MCINTOSH. has been appended to H.R. 1757, the ‘‘Foreign in the Congress on this subject. I said The amendment is designed to correct Relations Authorization Act for Fiscal Year that there was no thoughtful debate to- something that shouldn't require correcting, 1998 and 1999.’’ Inasmuch as the Senate com- night, and I stand by that comment. panion measure to H.R. 1757 is scheduled for but regrettably does. Senate floor action this week, it appears I will simply say, Mr. Chairman, that Ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union, likely that the European Security Act will despite all of the rhetoric tonight, the there has been a question about which coun- be addressed in a House-Senate conference practical effect of this action is to uni- tries, if any, succeeded to the obligations of committee in the very near future. laterally take the United States out of the Soviet Union under various arms control As we prepare for conference on the Euro- compliance with the ABM Treaty. That treaties. This question has been particularly pean Security Act, we find it necessary to is no response that any responsible leg- acute with regard to the Anti-Ballistic Missile, ask for additional information relevant to one of the bill’s provisions relating to islative body would make, and I cannot or ABM, Treaty. believe that the gentleman is suggest- multilateralization of the Anti-Ballistic Mis- The administration has had a very hard time sile (ABM) Treaty. ing that we do anything like it. making up its mind about what countries, if Section 6(c)(1) of the European Security Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to any, succeeded automatically to the Soviet Act states that: the gentleman from South Carolina Union's obligations under the ABM Treaty. At ‘‘It is the sense of the Congress that until (Mr. SPRATT) for closing. one point, they appeared to suggest there was the United States has taken the steps nec- Mr. SPRATT. Mr. Chairman, there is no automatic successor at all. More recently, essary to ensure that the ABM Treaty re- mains a bilateral treaty between the United a season for everything. There is a they have implied that Russia alone is the time to ratify START II, and that is States and the Russian Federation (such successor. state being the only successor state of the now, immediately, as soon as we can The Heritage Foundation recently released Union of Soviet Socialist Republics that has get the Duma to do it. And then there an excellent legal analysis concluding that, as deployed or realistically may deploy an anti- is a time to ratify START III. It comes a matter of international and domestic law, ballistic missile defense system), no ABM/ right on the heels of START II. And there is no successor and therefore the ABM TMD demarcation agreement will be consid- that should come immediately. It Treaty has lapsed. ered for approval for entry into force with should come next after we have com- In an effort to clarify the legal situation, I respect to the United States . . .’’ pleted the work on START II. I am aware that, subsequent to the intro- have exchanged a series of letters with the duction of the European Security Act, the Once we do that we will have the President on this subject. I ask unanimous Senate on May 14th approved Treaty Doc. warheads in each of our arsenals down consent that this correspondence be inserted No. 105–5, a resolution advising and consent- to 2,000 to 3,000 strategic warheads in the RECORD at this point. ing to ratification of the CFE Flank Agree- each. At that point in time, it will be The administration has attempted to deal ment. Condition 9 of this resolution required the season to take up the ABM Treaty with this uncertainty by negotiating a Memo- the President to: and look at it, because in many ways it randum of Understanding that would make ‘‘. . . certify to Congress that he will sub- is a relic of the Cold War and it has mit for Senate advice and consent to ratifi- four countries successors to the Soviet Union cation any international agreement . . . that outlived many of its purposes. for purposes of the ABM Treaty: Russia, would add one or more countries as States But, for the time being, it is a sym- Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. Under Parties to the ABM Treaty, or otherwise bol of stability. We pull the rug out pressure from the Senate, the President has convert the ABM Treaty from a bilateral from the ABM, the Standing Consult- agreed to submit this Memorandum of Under- treaty to a multilateral treaty . . .’’ ative Committee, we abruptly cut off standing for Senate advice and consent. I am further aware that, on May 15th, you funding, and that is a signal to the Many Members of both the House and the submitted to Congress the certification re- Russians that they better be careful Senate question the wisdom of the Memoran- quired by Condition 9 of Treaty Doc. No. 105– 5. and think twice about ratifying dum of Understanding, and perhaps because In order to help the conferees on the Euro- START II. And everything begins to of this, the President has delayed submitting it pean Security Act understand the degree to become unraveled. to the Senate. which section 6(c)(1) of that bill has been ad- There is nothing in these negotia- The McIntosh amendment deals with the dressed (and perhaps rendered unnecessary) tions that gives rise to any immediate likelihood that the administration will act as by Condition 9 of Treaty Doc. 105–5, I would problems. We are trying to define the though the Memorandum of Understanding is appreciate receiving your prompt response demarcation between strategic and to the following questions: in effect even though it has not been approved 1. In the view of the Administration, what theater weapons. In doing so, we have by the Senate. It is designed, in other words, countries in addition to the United States chosen to define the difference as being to hold the President to his commitment to the are today parties to the ABM Treaty? the planner in which the system, the Senate. 2. What countries sent representatives to interceptor, is tested. Is it tested I would note the obvious fact that this the most recent meeting of the Standing against an incoming object that would amendment is not intended to prevent U.S. Consultative Commission in Geneva? be the speed of an RV coming from the participation in the Standing Consultative 3. To the extent that the list of countries exoatmosphere if launched by an ICBM, identified in response to question no. 1 in- Commission if the President submits and the cludes countries in addition to those identi- or is it traveling at the speed of a tac- Senate ratifies the Memorandum of Under- fied in response to question no. 2, does the tical or theater missile, a much lower standing on succession. Administration believe that those additional speed? If it is tested only against the Under the rules of the House governing our countries have the legal right to send rep- latter, then it is a theater defense sys- deliberations today, however, it is not in order resentatives to meetings of the Standing H7276 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 Consultative Commission and otherwise par- provided to the Senate for its advice and assets that has been achieved. A change in ticipate in the administration of the ABM consent. Thus, the Congressional concerns course at this time that would exclude key Treaty? that you raised related to approval of these successor states from the ABM succession 4. To the extent that the list of countries agreements have been directly addressed. formula could place at risk continued identified in response to question no. 1 in- You raised a number of questions on ABM progress on strategic arms and other nuclear cludes countries in addition to those identi- Treaty succession generally. Let me make a matters. fied in response to question no. 2, why are few background points. The MOU on succes- Since the last review of the ABM Treaty in those additional countries not currently par- sion was the result of detailed negotiations 1993 (required every five years by the terms ticipating in the Standing Consultative spanning several years. When the USSR dis- of the Treaty, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Russia, Commission? Are those additional countries solved at the end of 1991, it became necessary and Ukraine—each of which have ABM Trea- aware that, in the view of the United States to reach agreement as to which former So- ty-related assets on its territory—have been Government, they are parties to and are viet states would collectively assume its the only former Soviet republics that have bound by the ABM Treaty? On what date rights and obligations under the Treaty participated in the ABM Treaty-related dis- were they informed of this fact by the United (which clearly continued in force by its own cussions held in the Standing Consultative States Government? terms). The United States took the view Commission (SCC). While the other eight 5. To the extent that the list of countries that, as a general principle, agreements be- former Soviet republics have been informed identified in response to question no. 2 in- tween the United States and the USSR that of SCC sessions, none has participated, and cludes countries in addition to those identi- were in force at the time of the dissolution three—Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Moldovia— fied in response to question no. 1, what is the of the Soviet Union would be presumed to have expressed their lack of interest in being legal justification for the participation of continue in force as to the former Republics. considered as Parties to the Treaty. Indeed, those additional countries in the Standing It became clear, however, particularly in the it has become clear over the past four years Consultative Commission? area of arms control, that a case-by-case re- of negotiations that, in addition to Russia, 6. Does the Administration currently in- view of each agreement was necessary. the former Soviet republics of Belarus, tend to conclude with Russia, Ukraine, In dealing with matters of succession, a Kazakhstan, and Ukraine have substantial Kazakhstan, Belarus, or any other of the key U.S. objective has been to preserve the interest in the specific subject matter of the newly independent states an agreement or substance of the original treaty regime as Treaty. For these reasons, prior to the sign- agreements regarding ABM Treaty succes- closely as possible. This was true with re- ing of the MOU, the United States notified sion? spect to the elaboration of the MOU as well. the other eight new independent states of 7. In the event that the Senate fails to act Accordingly, the MOU works to preserve the our intentions to bring the succession issue on an agreement submitted to it by the Ad- original object and purpose of the Treaty. to closure and to sign the MOU with Belarus, ministration regarding ABM Treaty succes- For example, it restricts the four successor Kazakhstan, the Russian Federation, and sion, what countries in addition to the states to only those rights held by the Ukraine, recognizing that these four succes- United States will, in the view of the Admin- former Soviet Union by limiting them col- sor states along with the United States, con- istration, be parties to the ABM Treaty? lectively to no more than 100 interceptors on stitute the Parties to the ABM Treaty. 8. In the event that the Senate votes to re- 100 launchers at a single ABM deployment Upon its entry into force, the MOU will ject an agreement submitted to it by the Ad- area and precluding the transfer of ABM sys- confirm the four former Soviet states par- ministration regarding ABM Treaty succes- tems and components to states that are not ticipating in the SCC as the successor states sion, what countries in addition to the Party to the Treaty. Neither a simple rec- to the Soviet Union for purposes of the Trea- United States will, in the view of the Admin- ognition of Russia as the sole ABM successor ty. This does not constitute a substantive istration, be parties to the ABM Treaty? (which would have ignored several former modification of rights and obligations under 9. Apart from the consequences that would Soviet states with significant ABM inter- the Treaty; rather, it is a recognition of the flow from Senate approval of, rejection of, or ests) nor a simple recognition of all NIS status of those former Soviet republics in inaction on an agreement submitted to it by states as full ABM successors would have light of dissolution of the USSR. As a prac- the Administration regarding ABM Treaty preserved fully the original purpose and sub- tical matter, the recently signed SCC regula- succession, what other developments, if any, stance of the Treaty, as approved by the Sen- tions make clear that the increased SCC par- may lead to a change in the list of countries ate in 1972. ticipation will be structured in a way similar Our willingness to work with key successor that are today parties to the ABM Treaty? to, and having the same effect as, that which states, in addition to Russia, on strategic 10. Apart from the consequences that has been successful for the United States in arms control issues has served, and will con- would flow from the Senate approval of, re- working with Belarus, Kazakhstan, Russia tinue to serve, U.S. national security inter- jection of, or inaction on an agreement sub- and Ukraine in implementing the START ests. Under the Lisbon Protocol to the mitted to it by the Administration regarding and INF Treaties. START I Treaty, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Rus- ABM Treaty succession, what other develop- As to your question regarding the possibil- sia and Ukraine, the successor states on ments, if any, may lead to a change in the ity that the Senate might fail to act upon or whose territory all strategic offensive arms list of countries legally entitled to send rep- might reject the MOU on succession, we be- of the former Soviet Union were based and resentatives to meetings of the Standing lieve that the case for all the ABM-related all declared START-related facilities were Consultative Commission and otherwise par- agreements, including the MOU on succes- located, assumed the rights and obligations ticipate in the administration of the ABM sion, will prevail on its merits. We further of the former Soviet Union under the START Treaty? believe that the package of agreements I Treaty. The Protocol also obligated I appreciate your cooperation in this mat- serves U.S. national security and foreign pol- Belaraus, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine to ad- ter. icy objectives. If, however, the Senate were here to the Treaty on the Nonproliferation of With warmest regards, to fail to act or to disagree and disapprove Nuclear Weapons. Both the Bush Adminis- Sincerely, the agreements, succession arrangements tration and Clinton Administration engaged BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, will simply remain unsettled. The ABM in major diplomatic initiatives to ensure im- Chairman. Treaty itself would clearly remain in force. plementation of the Lisbon Protocol, espe- We appreciate this opportunity to clarify cially with respect to the removal of all nu- the record in this area and look forward to clear warheads from Ukraine, Belarus, and future opportunities to communicate and THE WHITE HOUSE, Kazakhstan; the accession of these successor consult with you on these matters. Washington, November 21, 1997. states to the Nonproliferation Treaty; and Sincerely, Hon. BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, the entry into force of START I. BILL CLINTON. Chairman, Committee on International Rela- For certain key successor states to the tions, House of Representatives, Washing- former Soviet Union, ABM Treaty succession CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES, ton, DC. was, and remains, a priority issue. Ukraine, Washington, DC, March 3, 1998. DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your in particular, has made clear to us that it THE PRESIDENT, letter concerning the Anti-Ballistic Missile considers Ukraine’s legal status under the The White House, Washington, DC (ABM) Treaty succession arrangements. As ABM Treaty to be the same as under the INF DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: We appreciate your you know, after discussion between our Treaty (to which it is considered a Party) response of November 21, 1997, to Chairman staffs, we deferred this formal response to and that, in its view, its succession status Gulman’s letter of June 16, 1997, regarding your letter pending completion of the ABM- with regard to both Treaties should be the the proposed multilateralization of the Anti- related agreements, including the Memoran- same. Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty. We appre- dum of Understanding (MOU) on ABM Treaty There are many complex factors in our ciate as well your making Administration succession. These documents were signed on strategic relationship with the former Soviet lawyers available to meet with congressional September 26, 1997, and mark, along with the states. Had we been unwilling to engage with staff on January 30, 1998, to elaborate on START II documents that were signed the states in addition to Russia on key arms your November 21st response. same day, a significant step forward. The control agreements (START, INF and ABM), The most important legal question that MOU, as well as the agreements relating to it is unlikely that we would have achieved arises in connection with multilateralization the demarcation between theater and strate- the kind of comprehensive resolution of of the ABM Treaty is the first question posed gic ballistic missile defense systems, will be issues related to the disposition of strategic in Chairman Gilman’s letter: In the view of August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7277

the Administration, what countries in addi- Russia, and Ukraine as the successor states AMENDMENT NO. 49 OFFERED BY MR. KUCINICH tion to the United States are today parties to the Soviet Union for purposes of the Trea- Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I offer to the ABM Treaty? ty and make clear that only these four an amendment. Your response to this question appears to states, along with the United States, are the be: Until an agreement on succession to the ABM Treaty Parties. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- ABM Treaty comes into force, the identity of In your letter of March 3, you state that if ignate the amendment. the other party or parties to the ABM Treaty the Administration is unable to identify any The text of the amendment is as fol- is ‘‘unsettled.’’ Indeed, when asked on Janu- country in addition to the United States lows: ary 30th whether Russia, Ukraine, that is clearly bound by the Treaty, then you Amendment No. 49 offered by Mr. KUCINICH: Uzbekistan, or any other country that would have no choice but to conclude that At the end of the bill, insert after the last emerged from the Soviet Union is today pro- the Treaty has lapsed until such time as the section (preceding the short title) the follow- hibited by the ABM Treaty from deploying Senate approves a succession agreement re- ing: an ABM system at more than one site, Ad- viving the Treaty. TITLE IX—ADDITIONAL GENERAL ministration lawyers stated repeatedly that Following the dissolution of the Soviet PROVISIONS it is ‘‘unclear’’ whether any of these coun- Union, ten of the twelve states of the former tries is so bound. Soviet Union initially asserted a right in a SEC. 901. None of the funds made available The Administration’s response is pro- Commonwealth of Independent States reso- in this Act may be used for the filing of a foundly disturbing. If it is unclear as a mat- lution, signed on October 9, 1992, in Bishkek, complaint, or any motion seeking declara- ter of law whether Russia or any other coun- to assume obligations as successor states to tory or injunctive relief pursuant thereto, in try that emerged from the Soviet Union is the Soviet Union for purposes of the Treaty. any legal action brought under section today bound by the ABM Treaty, then it also Only four of these states have subsequently 102(b)(2) of the North American Free Trade should be unclear whether the United States participated in the work of the Standing Agreement Implementation Act (19 U.S.C. is so bound. Yet the Administration has in- Consultative Commission (SCC), and none of 3312(b)(2)) or section 102(b)(2) of the Uruguay sisted for years that the United States re- the other six has reacted negatively when we Round Agreements Act (19 U.S.C. 3512(b)(2)). mains fully bound by the ABM Treaty. informed each of them that, pursuant to the Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, imag- With regard to ballistic missile defense, for MOU, it will not be recognized as an ABM successor state. A principal advantage of the ine that your hometown or state passes example, the Administration has argued con- a law that promotes restitution for sistently that the United States should not Senate’s approving the MOU is that the test or deploy certain systems that could MOU’s entry into force will effectively dis- Holocaust victims whose gold was provide our nation highly effective protec- pose of any such claim by any of the other pulled from their mouths, melted tion against ballistic missile attack because six states. down, and then deposited in Swiss ac- such systems would violate our nation’s obli- In contrast, Belarus, Kazakhstan and counts by Nazis. And imagine that the gations under the ABM Treaty. It now ap- Ukraine each has ABM Treaty-related assets on its territory; each has participated in the World Trade Organization, an inter- pears, however, that the Administration national tribunal of unelected trade views the United States, at least for the time work of the SCC; and each has affirmed its desire to succeed to the obligations of the bureaucrats, decides in Geneva that being, as the only country that is clearly the law is inconsistent with inter- subject to those obligations. former Soviet Union under the Treaty. Thus, a strong case can be made that, even It is obvious to us, however, that under national trade and investment agree- without the MOU, these three states are Par- basic principles of international law a treaty ments. ties to the Treaty. requires more than one state party in order Finally, the United States and Russia Then the mayor and town legislature to give rise to binding legal obligations. If clearly are Parties to the Treaty. Each has are hauled into federal court by the ad- the Administration is unable to identify any reaffirmed its intention to be bound by the ministration of the United States Gov- country in addition to the United States Treaty; each has actively participated in ernment. that is today clearly bound by the ABM every phase of the implementation of the Treaty, then there is no country that the Treaty, including the work of the SCC; and b 2215 United States can look to today to uphold each has on its territory extensive ABM the obligations previously imposed on the Treaty-related facilities. According to the GATT and NAFTA Soviet Union by the Treaty, and no country Thus, there is no question that the ABM implementing legislation, the adminis- that today is entitled to complain if the Treaty has continued in force and will con- tration can sue to preempt the law and United States fails to uphold the Treaty. tinue in force even if the MOU is not ratified. If, in fact, the Administration does not enforce the WTO decree, a power that However, the entry into force of the MOU re- was formerly reserved only for the consider the United States to be the only mains essential. As I pointed out in my let- country that is today clearly bound by the ter of November 21, the United States has a United States Congress. The amend- ABM Treaty, we would appreciate your iden- clear interest both in confirming that these ment that I offer this evening would tifying for us the other country (or coun- states (and only these states) are bound by deny funds for a Federal legal chal- tries) that is today party to—and bound by— the obligations of the Treaty, and in resolv- lenge against our State and local gov- the Treaty. In the absence of such clarifica- ing definitively the issues about ABM Treaty ernments. tion, we will have no choice but to conclude succession that are dealt with in the MOU. I offer this amendment because Con- that the ABM Treaty has lapsed until such Without the MOU, ambiguity will remain time as the Senate approves a succession gress gave too much power to the ad- about the extent to which states other than ministration by permitting it to pre- agreement reviving the Treaty. Russia are Parties, and about the way in Thank you for your attention to this in- which ABM Treaty obligations apply to the empt the laws of local and State gov- quiry. successors to the Soviet Union. Equally im- ernments on the grounds that they are With best wishes, portant, maintaining the viability of the inconsistent with international trade Sincerely, ABM Treaty is key to further reductions in and investment agreements. That is BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, strategic offensive forces under START II the function of Congress. My amend- Chairman, Committee on International and START III. Relations. ment would effectively restore the sep- I appreciate this further opportunity to aration of powers that has existed until JESSE HELMS, clarify the record in this area. Chairman, Committee on Foreign Relations. Sincerely, 1993. It would protect important and BILL CLINTON. valuable State and local laws. THE WHITE HOUSE, The CHAIRMAN. All time has ex- The administration has already stat- Washington, May 21, 1998. ed its opposition to New York City’s Hon. BENJAMIN GILMAN, pired. The question is on the amendment Holocaust victims compensation law. Chairman, Committee on International Rela- Unless we pass this amendment, the tions, House of Representatives, Washing- offered by the gentleman from Indiana ton, DC. (Mr. MCINTOSH). administration will be able to sue New DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your The question was taken; and the York City and any other jurisdiction letter concerning the Anti-Ballistic Missile Chairman announced that the noes ap- that dares to adopt such legislation. At (ABM) Treaty succession arrangements. As I peared to have it. risk, too, are the Burma selective pur- said in my letter of November 21, 1997, the Mr. McINTOSH. Mr. Chairman, I de- chase laws that 22 cities and four Administration will provide to the Senate mand a recorded vote. States around the country have en- for its advice and consent the Memorandum The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House acted or are considering. Those are of Understanding (MOU) on ABM Treaty suc- cession, which was signed on September 26, Resolution 508, further proceedings on laws like the ones passed by Massachu- 1997. Moreover, the MOU will settle ABM the amendment offered by the gen- setts, New York City and Portland, Or- Treaty succession. Upon its entry into force, tleman from Indiana (Mr. MCINTOSH) egon that limit municipal tax dollars the MOU will confirm Belarus, Kazakhstan, will be postponed. from going to the military regime in H7278 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 Burma through companies that do Why have all these groups endorsed Uruguay Round Agreements also state business in Burma. Nearly every State the amendment? Because all the citi- that panel reports under the World in the Nation has laws that are at risk zen groups from the entire political Trade Organization dispute settlement if we do not pass this amendment to- spectrum share a common need for ac- mechanism or under NAFTA are not night. cess to a meaningful democratic proc- binding as a matter of U.S. law and Besides giving a club to the adminis- ess. The GATT/NAFTA implementing cannot form the basis for bringing suit tration, the GATT and NAFTA imple- legislation closed access to the demo- in U.S. courts. In fact, the Uruguay menting legislation has sent a chilling cratic process. Round Agreements Act specifically effect over local lawmaking. Earlier Support our amendment. Support precludes Federal courts from giving this year the State of Maryland consid- your hometown’s constitutional right WTO panel reports any deference. ered passing a selective purchase law to legislate on important matters. Sup- Thus, in the regulation of foreign com- to promote human rights and to cor- port Holocaust victim compensation merce, Federal law is the ‘‘law of the rect environmental abuses in Nigeria. law. Vote ‘‘yes’’ on Kucinich/Sanders/ land,’’ and neither WTO dispute settle- The Federal Government showed up in Ros-Lehtinen/DeFazio/ Stearns. ment panels, nor the WTO itself, has Annapolis to warn lawmakers that the Mr. CRANE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in any power to compel any change in Maryland law would be GATT illegal. opposition to the Kucinich amendment. U.S. law or regulation. It is up to the The threat of a Federal lawsuit backed (Mr. CRANE asked and was given United States government to decide up the State Department official’s permission to revise and extend his re- how it will respond, if at all, to WTO warning. In the face of such pressure, marks.) and NAFTA panel reports. Maryland backed down. Mr. CRANE. Mr. Chairman, this Yesterday we considered a resolution Not long ago, a repressive racist re- amendment would prohibit the use of calling on the European Union to bring gime ran South Africa with an iron any of the funds appropriated by this measures that restrict the exports of fist. Our cities and States responded bill to challenge a State law on the U.S. beef and bananas into compliance with selective purchase and divestment grounds that it is inconsistent with with WTO obligations. The adoption of laws. As Randall Robinson, President NAFTA or the Uruguay Round Agree- of TransAfrica said, ‘‘Had we been the Kucinich amendment would di- ments. bound by such trade rules as these dur- rectly undermine these efforts to get Let there be no mistake. This is an the EU to come into compliance with ing our struggle to free South Africa, anti-trade, anti-export amendment Nelson Mandela might still be impris- its WTO obligations. that would have the effect of encourag- This is a flawed amendment put for- oned.’’ ing States to enact discriminatory Mr. Chairman, some opponents of ward by those who desire to build walls statutes in violation of international this amendment have claimed that of protection around the United States, State laws such as New York City’s trade agreements. By denying the Fed- while sacrificing the benefits of a func- contemplated Holocaust victims com- eral Government the constitutional au- tioning international trading system pensation law are unconstitutional. thority to regulate foreign commerce, for our workers and businesses. That is not true. We agree with the the amendment would invite trade re- I urge a ‘‘no’’ vote on the amendment conclusion of Ronald Reagan’s Justice taliation against U.S. exports. offered by the gentleman from Ohio. Department that State and local gov- In granting Congress the authority Mr. BONIOR. Mr. Chairman, I move ernments have the constitutional au- ‘‘to regulate commerce with foreign to strike the last word. Mr. Chairman, I rise and urge my col- thority to determine with whom they nations,’’ Article I, section 8 of the leagues to support the amendment do business. That opinion is founded Constitution recognizes the need for from the distinguished gentleman from firmly on Supreme Court decisions. uniformity among the States in the Some opponents have said the admin- conduct of international trade. As Dan- Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH). No trade agree- istration is not required to sue State iel Webster stated, ‘‘The prevailing mo- ment should undermine the values that and local governments on the basis of tive was to regulate commerce; to res- we have fought so hard for in this any WTO decision, so this amendment cue it from the embarrassing and de- country, strong environmental laws, is not necessary. That is not true. Con- structive consequences resulting from strong health and safety laws, support sider the GATT panel order in the case legislation of so many States, and to for human rights. All of these issues commonly known as Beer II. There the place it under the protection of a uni- have been fought at the State and at GATT panel wrote that the States had form law.’’ In cases where there is a the local level through debate, through to comply with GATT decisions and conflict between an act of Congress struggle over the years, and no inter- the Federal Government was required that regulates commerce and local or national organization ought to be able to force compliance. The GATT panel State legislation, Federal law enjoys to come in and just shut that off with- said, ‘‘GATT law is part of Federal law supremacy. out having folks be able to participate. in the United States and as such is su- In order to encourage uniformity Now, some of these agreements are perior to GATT-inconsistent State among the States, Congress wrote the being used to strip away these very im- law.’’ laws implementing NAFTA and the portant local and State laws that I just Now, Mr. Chairman, this amendment, Uruguay Round Agreements to state mentioned and that the gentleman the Kucinich/Sanders/Ros-Lehtinen/ plainly that it is the exclusive right of from Ohio so eloquently illustrated. DeFazio/Stearns amendment has re- the Federal Government to challenge What is worse is that the State and ceived widespread support from a rep- State laws on the grounds that they the local governments, which are not resentative coalition of civic organiza- violate international trade obligations. even at the table when these trade tions: B’nai B’rith, Sierra Club, Amer- One thing should be made clear in deals are negotiated, are the targets of ican Cause, the U.S. Business and In- this debate. The authority to bring these efforts. We see threats being dustry Council, Public Citizen, Amer- legal action against the States has made against local sanctions laws, en- ican Jewish Congress, Free Burma Coa- never been used during the 50 years vironmental laws, consumer protection lition, TransAfrica, Simon Wiesenthal that the GATT global trading system laws and Buy American laws, and in Center, Africa Fund, American Lands has been in effect. States and communities across the Alliance, Ralph Nader, Randall Robin- I want to remind my colleagues that country, local initiatives to sanction son, Pat Buchanan and Bay Buchanan, Congress established elaborate con- the regimes in Burma and Nigeria are Citizens Trades Campaign, the Pre- sultation procedures to protect the in- being undermined. I think it is impor- amble Center, Co-op America, the PEN terests of States in these matters, and tant to remember that in the 1980s American Center, the Front Range to ensure that representatives of these same local efforts contributed Fair Trade Coalition of Colorado, Alli- States play a formal role in any inter- greatly to the ending of apartheid in ance for Democracy, Open Society In- national dispute settlement proceeding South Africa and the eventual freeing stitute’s Burma Project, Citizens for that concerns their laws and practices. of Nelson Mandela. We will lose that Participation in Political Action, Se- For those who raise concerns about economic leverage by letting trade attle Burma Round Table, and the list U.S. sovereignty, I emphasize that the deals deny communities their voice on goes on. statutes implementing NAFTA and the human rights and democracy. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7279 Ultimately we must make sure that hundreds of treaties that have yet to have too many people who have waited our trade agreements do not undermine develop meaningful enforcement tools. a long time. the ability of our States and commu- b 2230 Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the nities to protect consumers, to support requisite number of words. workers and to protect human rights. At immediate risk are the sanctions Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong sup- But today at the very least, we can laws the City of New York and the port of this amendment which brings protect the rights of States and com- States of California and New Jersey are progressives and conservatives to- munities and afford them the due proc- considering against Swiss banks that gether and a lot of people in between, ess that we advocate when we come to have held assets stolen by the Nazis and let me briefly state what this this floor every day. from Holocaust victims many years amendment is not about. Mr. Chairman, I urge my colleagues ago. Switzerland has already given This amendment does not deal with to vote for the Kucinich amendment. It public notice of its intent to get a rul- our absurd trade policy which is cur- is an important amendment. If you ing from the WTO. The WTO expects us rently running up a $200 billion deficit, value what your local officials and to forget the price that these Holo- it is costing us millions of jobs and is your State officials do, if you value caust victims have paid, forget fairness lowering the standard of American devolution which we talk about on this and justice, ignore that the Swiss are workers. This amendment does not floor often, if you value local control, protecting the rights of the barbaric deal with that. if you value what is important at the and brutal Nazi criminals and denying But what this amendment does deal heart of democracy, the local level, the rights of Holocaust victims. with, which is equally important, is please vote for this amendment. Is this what we want to defend? Are the issue of democracy and national Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. Mr. Chairman, principles and beliefs that are the ru- sovereignty and the right of the Amer- I move to strike the requisite number bric of American society to be held ican people through their local and of words. I am proud to be a cosponsor hostage by the WTO? The answer, of State elected bodies to make legisla- of this amendment and I congratulate course, must be a resounding no. tion which is in their own best inter- the gentleman from Ohio (Mr. This amendment insures that the ul- ests. KUCINICH) for his leadership and his timate fate of subnational policies and The Members of Congress who are co- hard work on garnering bipartisan sup- laws are decided by the American polit- sponsoring this legislation, progres- port on this very critical and impor- ical system and not by foreign bureau- sives and conservatives, disagree on a tant item. crats. lot of things, but what we do not dis- The message that this amendment Do not be fooled by opponents of this agree about is that the American peo- serves to underscore is that diplomacy amendment. The Kucinich-Sanders- ple in their cities and their towns and does not mean surrender. In our eager- Ros-Lehtinen-DeFazio-Stearns amend- their States have the right to make de- ness to expand and grow through in- ment does not preclude constitutional cisions which affect their own best in- creased global trade, we must be care- challenges to State and local laws. It terests and have the right not to be ful about the concessions that we does, however, prevent the use of tax- overridden by a secretive trade organi- make. We must be careful not to sac- payer funds for legal actions which are zation in Geneva, the World Trade Or- rifice U.S. sovereignty. We must be essentially carrying out the WTO rules. ganization. careful not to sacrifice domestic inter- For these and numerous others, Mr. Mr. Chairman, for many of us trade est and our American principles in ex- Chairman, we must support this is important. We agree trade is impor- change for foreign commitments that amendment. I ask my colleagues to tant. But it is not more important than are ephemeral at best. We must not render their support and vote in favor human rights or social justice, and it is allow foreign entities and international of the Kucinich-Sanders-Ros-Lehtinen- not more important than the freedom tribunals the authority to challenge DeFazio-Stearns amendment. of the American people to exercise and to rival the U.S. constitutional Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the their constitutional right to speak out framework by doing away with local, requisite number of words. for justice or to protect the environ- State and tribal laws, nor must we Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, I know ment or to protect the food that we eat allow them to rule on what constitutes there are a number of speakers on this or the quality of agriculture in our American domestic and national secu- important matter on both sides. areas. rity interests. Unfortunately, this is In the interests of time, Mr. Chair- Let me give my colleagues a few ex- precisely what the World Trade Organi- man, I wonder if we could talk about amples of why this amendment is im- zation is doing. the possibility of capping the debate portant: Through the various agreements at, say, 20 minutes, 10 for each side, or Recently in Annapolis, Maryland, the under the jurisdiction of the WTO, no some other figure. I am trying to find legislature in Maryland was discussing less than seven principles that create something that we can agree upon to a serious way to deal with the military the constitutional foundation for the somewhat cut off debate at some rea- dictatorship in Nigeria, and they had a role of States as laboratories of democ- sonable hour. guest at their hearings, and that guest racies, as former Supreme Court Jus- If 20 minutes is too little, perhaps the was from the State Department who tice Brandeis once said, are in jeop- sponsor would have a better idea? told them that he thought it would not ardy. Several doctrines which the Su- Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, will be in their best interests or even legal preme Court has recognized governing the gentleman yield? for them to go forward under GATT the stewardship of property and natu- Mr. ROGERS. I yield to the gen- law to protest and develop legislation ral resources are directly affected. tleman from Vermont. in opposition to the military dictator- Even free speech in the form of con- Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, I ship in Nigeria. sumer choice campaigns is being would just suggest that Members have What is terribly important to under- threatened as eco-labels, nutrition la- been waiting here for many hours. This stand is that in the 1960s and in the bels and disclosure of child labor are is an issue of enormous consequence. 1970s communities from all over this open to challenges under WTO man- There are a lot of speakers who would country came together to speak out dates of uniformity. The WTO threat- like to speak. against apartheid, and let me quote ens such laws as the Burma selective So I do appreciate, I think we appre- from what Martin Luther King, Jr., purchase laws which limit municipal ciate, the gentleman’s wanting to move said in 1965 about what was going on in tax dollars from going to the military this long, but a lot of people have wait- South Africa and how we could oppose regime in Burma through companies ed a long time to give their thoughts it. This is what he said, and I quote: that do business in Burma. It under- on this issue. Mr. ROGERS. Could we agree on, say, We are in an era in which the issue of mines and challenges the use of sanc- human rights is the essential question con- tions at all levels of our government. a 30-minute total with 15 minutes per fronting all nations. With respect to South According to the Georgetown Univer- side? Africa our protest is so muted and peripheral sity Law Center, this also has a pro- Mr. SANDERS. No, Mr. Chairman, I while our trade and investments substan- found implication for the future of am sorry. I really would like to, but we tially stimulate their economy to greater H7280 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 heights. We pat South Africa on the wrist, overseas who employ his constituents been in effect now for over 50 years. Despite we give them massive support through and my constituents are much more scores of panel reports over the past decades, American investment in motor and rubber concerned with not only making a prof- the Federal Government has never, has never industries. Now is the chance for millions of it but employing people than they are brought suit or even threatened suit to en- people to personally give expression to their force a panel report against a State or local abhorrence of the world’s worst racism. We having the City of Montpelier, Ver- government. mont, or Findlay, Ohio, making foreign therefore ask all men of goodwill to take ac- She closes with this paragraph: policy, and I would say to my friend, tion against apartheid in the following man- Over the past 5 years fully one-third of ner. Listen up. Urge your government to sup- and I may have time to yield at the U.S. economic growth has been tied to our port economic sanctions. Don’t trade or in- end, and I will be glad to do so if I dynamic export sector. American workers vest in South Africa until an effective inter- have, but that is really the issue here, and companies depend on open markets national quarantine of apartheid is estab- whether in fact the Congress of the around the world. Congress and the adminis- lished. United States and the President of the tration have worked very hard over many The fact of the matter is, if apartheid United States have the ability to make decades to put trade rules in place that open existed in a country today, or if an- foreign policy or we are going to let 50 those markets and to keep them open other Hitler came to power, it would be States and Lord knows how many com- through effective dispute settlement proce- impossible for the State of Vermont or dures. The United States is by far the most munities throughout this country frequent user of international dispute settle- the State of California to develop eco- make foreign policy. The imposition of nomic sanctions to say that companies ment mechanisms. They have benefitted U.S. State and local sanctions has become workers and industries across a wide range that invest in those countries could almost a fad which will do more harm of sectors and were put in place at U.S. in- not do business with the State govern- than good no matter how well-inten- sistence with our sovereignty concerns fully ment of Vermont or California or Mas- tioned. in mind. No change in U.S. law is needed to sachusetts. That seems to me abso- Let me read an editorial in the San ensure that this remains the case. lutely absurd. Francisco Examiner, and the language Signed Charlene Barshefsky, U.S. Let me quote from a dear colleague suggests that, quote, at the city’s cur- Trade Representative. that was sent out by my good friends, rent rate of sanctioning it would soon That really says it all, and this real- the gentleman from Ohio (Mr. OXLEY) be able to do business only with compa- ly comes down to the question of and the gentleman from Indiana (Mr. nies who limited their international whether the Congress of the United HAMILTON) and they say in opposition work to Monaco and Iceland, end States in our responsibilities to help to this amendment, quote: quote. create foreign policy and trade policy ‘‘Multinational companies are being So the San Francisco Examiner, not as well as the administration is going forced to make costly choices between exactly a conservative newspaper, I to be trumped by some city council giving up lucrative contracts with gov- think really hit the nail on the head. somewhere out in the Midwest that I ernment agencies or foregoing business State and local sanctions are protec- would submit does not have nearly the in some of the world’s most promising tionist, they are anti-trade and may amount of information available that markets.’’ even be unconstitutional. As a matter we do. Yes, that is exactly what we want. If of fact, I would submit they are uncon- Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, in the colleagues want to do business with stitutional. These laws are not always interest of trying to preserve time and apartheid, if they want to do business applied consistently and often send preserve everyone’s right to speak I with a military dictatorship, then the mixed signals of the U.S. intent. think we have general agreement on people of Vermont and the people of Think for a moment. Sanctions could limiting time. California and cities and towns all over be potentially imposed by 50 States and I would like to, with that in mind, this country do have a right to say to thousands of municipalities. This could propose a unanimous consent that all those companies: raise serious questions among our trad- debate on the amendment be completed ‘‘You have to make a choice because ing partners as to the stability and pre- after 30 minutes equally divided be- we believe that human rights is more dictability of U.S. business relations. tween the two sides, the gentleman important.’’ American values and business practices from Ohio controlling his side, the gen- Mr. OXLEY. Mr. Chairman, I move to are best advanced through engagement, tleman from Arizona, on the commit- strike the requisite number of words. not by isolating us or angering allies tee, controlling the other side. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in support through the threatened use of second- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection of free trade and against the ad hoc ary boycotts. Furthermore, when faced to the request of the gentleman from proliferation of State and local trade with a mandatory choice businesses Kentucky? sanctions being imposed throughout may abandon the local government Mr. MOLLOHAN. Reserving the right the United States, and I strongly op- market in favor of the global market to object, Mr. Chairman, would the pose the Kucinich-Sanders amendment, which only harms local distributors of gentleman from Kentucky please re- which is designed to protect such sanc- the boycotted companies. state? tions from Federal challenge and would The plain facts are that State and Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, will the in effect promote free-lance foreign local sanctions undermine the unity of gentleman yield? Mr. MOLLOHAN. I yield to the gen- policy making at the State and local U.S. foreign policy and make the U.S. tleman from Kentucky. level. less credible and effective in economic Mr. ROGERS. Mr. Chairman, the pro- I thought that is what we got elected negotiations. That is why the Clinton posal is that the debate be concluded in to do, was that the Congress and the State Department opposes this amend- 30 minutes, divided 15 a side, the gen- President make foreign policy. But ap- ment. That is why the U.S. Trade Rep- tleman from Ohio controlling his side, parently, because of this amendment, resentative also opposes this amend- the gentleman from Arizona control- it means that my home city of Findlay, ment. State and local sanctions are ling this side. Ohio, and the city council therein counterproductive, ineffective and could have a foreign policy. I thought Mr. MOLLOHAN. Mr. Chairman, I frustrate cooperation with U.S. trading withdraw my reservation of objection. we settled that many, many years ago partners who frequently view them as a in this country. Denying contracts to violation of U.S. international commit- b 2245 American firms with business commit- ments. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection ments in Tibet, Burma or Nigeria may Now, Mr. Chairman, in closing let me to the request of the gentleman from be at first glance on the cutting edge of quote from our distinguished U.S. Kentucky? political correctness, but the real and Trade Representative, Charlene There was no objection. immediate effect is to punish local Barshefsky, who has done a superb job The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman businesses who have no control over in her tenure at USTR. She says about from Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH) is recognized events in foreign countries. the Kucinich, et al. amendment: for 15 minutes. I would say to my friend from Ver- This amendment is unnecessary and ill ad- Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I yield mont (Mr. SANDERS) that those compa- vised. The amendment appears to be founded 3 minutes to the gentleman from Or- nies who are trying to find markets on a faulty premise. Global trade rules have egon (Mr. DEFAZIO). August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7281

Mr. DEFAZIO. Mr. Chairman, I thank But if it is to take a local jurisdiction Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I yield the gentleman for yielding me time. to court merely because the bureau- 4 minutes to the gentleman from Flor- Mr. Chairman, we have been told by crats at the WTO or the bureaucrats ida (Mr. STEARNS). the other side that it is absolutely un- who are making the decisions in Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I rise necessary to have this amendment be- NAFTA, or Charlene Barshefsky, a in support of the amendment. cause the United States Government former foreign agent, now our Trade Mr. Chairman, I would say to the has never used the power of the courts Representative, says so, that is not the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. MAN- to preempt State and local laws, and it way this country should be run. ZULLO) and also the gentleman from will never do that. Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 Ohio (Mr. OXLEY), I do not think they Well, if that is the case, then why do minutes to the distinguished gen- have read the amendment. When they they not just accept the amendment? tleman from Illinois (Mr. MANZULLO), quote Madam Barshefsky, in which she This only limits the expenditure of who has been a strong advocate of ex- said no panel proceedings have ever funds for the Federal Government to panded trade opportunities. been brought against any State or mu- take local and State governments to Mr. MANZULLO. Mr. Chairman, can nicipal law or regulation, well, perfect, court when their laws are found to be you imagine State and local govern- that is what we are talking about. inconsistent with NAFTA and GATT, ments saying we really do not like international trade agreements, not these international postal agreements, That is what this amendment is. It is the Constitution of the United States. so we are going to enact a community just saying that no State or local laws Of course the Federal Government postal agreement, or perhaps a state- will be challenged by the Federal Gov- can sue if it violates the Constitution wide one; or we think there is an in- ernment, just what she said. It fits in of the United States, but only in the fringement on our sovereignty with the perfectly with our amendment, which case where their local laws, their local international air space agreements be- states basically that you cannot use preference, violates the terms of an cause those airplanes fly over our Federal funds to challenge State and international trade agreement, which State, and therefore we think that local governments. will be decided by secret tribunals State and local governments should So, I do not know, they are talking overseas. If that is what is before us, have the right to enact their own type about the Constitution, they are talk- they should then accept the amend- of agreements dealing with these sub- ing about all these mishmash laws all ment. jects? around our 50 States. They obviously Further, we have the statement in Well, we are not under the Articles of have not read the amendment. We are 1986 of the Justice Department under Confederation, we are under the United agreeing with Madam Barshefsky, who President Ronald Reagan concluding States Constitution, and it was the basically said that no Federal funds that State and local laws and anti- Constitution that specifically gave ex- will go towards such challenges. So our apartheid laws were constitutional clusive power to the United States amendment matches basically what under the market participation doc- Government, the national government, the traditional recognition is by trine. They go on to say, the Supreme to deal with issues of foreign policy Barshefsky and everybody else. All we Court has distinguished, quite prop- and especially international trade. are saying is let us codify it today. erly, between the exercise of propri- What we have going on in this coun- A lot of people say, well, you know, etary powers and regulatory powers. try, for example, Berkeley City Council what are we talking about? The States The Court has shielded proprietary ac- added two more oil companies to its and local communities are not being tions from the strictures of the Com- boycott list. The council will no longer impacted. No? In my State of Florida, merce Clause. State divestment stat- buy gas from Shell and Chevron be- Venezuela brought legal action against utes represent, we believe, an exercise cause it does business in Nigeria. Since Florida under the auspices of the WTO of proprietary power. Berkeley has already banned ARCO, for Florida’s oil refinery standards. That goes to the arguments of the Unocal, Mobil and Texaco for doing Now, Florida maintains a very clean gentleman earlier. These are constitu- business in Burma and considered air standard to reduce pollution, but tional. This is what our country is all Exxon stained by the Valdez spill, the Venezuela challenged that standard be- about, it is what it is founded on. Our town is running out of options. cause the oil produced in Venezuela local and State jurisdictions should be So the issue is not WTO, but simply could not meet the Florida standard. able to express their values in expend- does the Federal Government or the Venezuela was successful, and Florida ing the dollars of their taxpayers. That State and local governments have ju- is now forced to reduce their environ- is what this is about. risdiction over international trade pol- mental standards to accommodate the The largest city in my State, Port- icy? We cannot have an international WTO decision. land, has imposed restrictions on pur- trade policy promulgated by this Con- Do you think that is right? Some of chases regarding Burma because of the gress and then be preempted by 50 the other things that have been men- drug smuggling from Burma, because States and hundreds of local commu- tioned, the Helms-Burton Act which of the oppression in Burma, because of nities. It simply would not make sense. enacted trade sanctions against Cuba the fact that they had an election That is the issue here. was challenged by the European Com- which was won by an 80 percent margin One of the reasons our Founding Fa- munity at the World Trade Organiza- and they refused to recognize it. They thers moved to adopt the U.S. Con- tion. are saying something must be done. stitution in 1779 was that even the We have a bunch of people in the States among themselves had their Switzerland has indicated that they White House, and apparently even here, own tariffs and their own foreign poli- will bring an action to the WTO unwilling to take stern action against cies. against New York City, California and Burma, but at least a few cities will So I would urge Members this New Jersey for their sanction laws stand up for the rights of those people. evening to vote against this amend- against Swiss banks that held assets And that is the way it should be. We ment and to say, look, if we want to stolen by Nazi Germany from the Holo- should not be threatening them be- have a focused international policy, caust victims for over 40 years. Buy- cause they are saying you are violating Congress is the place where the issue of American provisions in numerous the WTO. You know, those butchers Burma should be debated, and it is; States and localities. running Myanmar are in fact compli- Congress is the place where the issue of The question before us tonight is how ant with WTO, and you cannot do that Nazi gold should be debated, and it is, can international agreements go in, to them. They are compliant. in the Committee on International Re- overturning laws passed by States and That is absurd. What we need to do lations, and the sanctions were re- localities that have not been ratified here tonight is adopt this amendment quested here in this body. All these by anybody other than the World Trade and just say in one case and one case issues deal with the United States Con- Organizations? I certainly would not only the Federal Government cannot gress and the authority that we have necessarily endorse every law passed spend these funds. But if it is unconsti- here. We cannot be preempted by 50 by the City of Berkeley, California, or tutional, fine, they can go to court. states going their own way. San Francisco, but are not the laws H7282 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 these localities pass the essence of de- But we have set these things in place of South Africa in their struggle for mocracy? And as long as States and lo- so that there is in fact a trade regime, freedom, Nelson Mandela might still be calities do not violate the U.S. Con- that if a European country discrimi- in jail. We would not have been able to stitution, their local laws should be de- nates against a product from Cleve- use local sanctions as weapons against fended by the Federal Government and land, Ohio, or Cincinnati, Ohio, or apartheid in South Africa. not challenged and thrown out by the Florida, then yes, we as the United I believe one of the reasons this coun- World Trade Organization. States Government can retaliate try remains free is the ability for local So the bottom line is, Mr. Chairman, against that European county. people to have initiatives, started at this is a very simple amendment, and That is what we are trying to do now the bottom, implemented by ordinary it is a perfect amendment that matches with regard to beef hormones, with re- people, and represented by local offi- with Ambassador Barshefsky, that no gard to bananas. We sat here on the cials who oftentimes are closest to government will file against State and floor yesterday and all of us voted for them. local governments, and no Federal this great resolution to beat up on the Mr. Chairman, when I was a member funds can be used. Europeans because they have protec- of the Chicago City Council, alderman So I urge my colleagues to support tionist policies in place, and we in- of the 29th Ward, I fought for selective this amendment and let us move for- sisted that USTR make the Europeans contracting policies. I fought for them ward. fully comply with the WTO decisions because the people I represented firmly Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 which helped the United States. believed that their local government minutes to the gentleman from Ohio Yet we stand here tonight and say and businesses should not be doing (Mr. PORTMAN), a member of the Com- that is not going to apply to us. We business with the apartheid regime in mittee on Ways and Means. should let our cities and our States and South Africa. Mr. PORTMAN. Mr. Chairman, I our counties decide what our trade pol- In the mid-1980s, the city of Chicago thank the gentleman for yielding me icy is, and then in turn we are going to passed a selective contracting policy, time. allow the Europeans to cut off products along with 50 other cities, five other States, and 14 counties that passed Mr. Chairman, this is an interesting that are coming from all over this similar ordinances. I, as a local elected debate. I was over in my office listen- country. official, stood with my constituents, ing to it and decided I should come Let me give you one example of what who were courageous enough to orga- over and just add my voice. I think it could happen if we allow this thing to nize against the injustices in South Af- is probably a little confusing to people go through. You could have one city, rica. This city ordnance was passed as listening because we are talking about Cleveland, Ohio, my city of Cincinnati, a monument to the personal undertak- the Constitution and talking about all or Berkeley, California, as I said ear- ing and fearless conviction that the these trade agreements. lier, put in a place a policy that pro- people in my community have. Basically this is just a back-door at- vides discrimination against some tempt at protectionism. My good friend I hope not to see the day when the product from some company that hap- Federal Government can overturn this from Ohio, from Cleveland, has heavy pens to be European based. The Euro- machinery in his district he wants to kind of conviction. This was our way, peans could then discriminate against the people’s way of supporting the export, he has high-tech goods, he has a product that does not affect just chemicals. My friend from Florida who struggle that was led by the people at Berkley, California, or Cleveland, Ohio, the bottom, at the very local level of just spoke has orange juice he wants to or Cincinnati, Ohio, but affects this en- send over to the Europeans, the best being. tire country and affects jobs here in Why is it that every time there is orange juice in the world. We want the United States. conflict between the people and major those markets to be open. One-third of the growth of this won- corporations, that somehow or another If we were to pass this amendment derful economic situation we find our- the people get shut out, left at the bot- tonight, and if we were to take this selves in today is due to exports. If you tom? There is no fear in a policy like road in trade which says basically, as want to pull up the ladder, fine, let us this. All that it really says is let the my friend just said, that Berkeley, talk about that. But let us not go people decide. That is the democratic California, can decide whether oranges around this backdoor way and say we way. That is the American way. That is are going to go from Florida to the Eu- are not going to have a national trade why I support the Kucinich amend- ropean countries, we will in fact have policy, we are going to have a city ment. the kind of protectionism and break trade policy or a county trade policy or Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I am down the kind of standards that we a State trade policy, which in turn will pleased to yield 2 minutes to the gen- have set up under the World Trade Or- allow our trading partners who have tleman from Louisiana (Mr. JEFFER- ganization and under the GATT. agreed to the WTO, who have agreed to SON). Why? Because what the Europeans NAFTA, to in turn discriminate Mr. JEFFERSON. Mr. Chairman, I will do who are being discriminated against our products and hurt all thank the gentleman for yielding me against by the policies of Berkeley Americans. the time. California, or any other city, is they So I strongly urge a ‘‘no’’ vote on Mr. Chairman, I think it would be will retaliate against the United this. I think we should have more hon- helpful to bring this debate down to States, and they have every right to do est discussion about it. Earth. The fact of it is, no Nation on it under these trade agreements. They Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I yield the face of this Earth uses the WTO would not have the right to do it so three minutes to the gentleman from dispute resolutions more than the long as the U.S. follows the rules. But Illinois (Mr. DAVIS). United States does. No Nation wins if we do not follow the rules and we (Mr. DAVIS of Illinois asked and was more battles before the WTO than the allow our cities and States to discrimi- given permission to revise and extend United States does. We cannot have it nate against their products, then they his remarks.) both ways. We cannot have a case can turn around and discriminate where, if we win with the WTO, we say, b against our products, and that is the 2300 enforce the agreement; if someone else whole point of these agreements. Mr. DAVIS of Illinois. Mr. Chairman, wins from another country, we say, If you do not like the NAFTA agree- I rise in support of the Kucinich trash it. Forget about it. It means ment, which was passed by this Con- amendment. I ask my colleagues, what nothing. Certainly we do not want it to gress when it was under Democratic with the intimidation of the WTO rules mean anything in any jurisdiction that control, when there was a Democrat in and upcoming Federal lawsuits, what any of us have anything to do with. the White House, then let us talk about State or local governments will be able The fact of it is, this debate has al- NAFTA. If you do not like the WTO, to use procurement as instruments for ready taken place on this floor. It took which was passed when President Clin- influencing public policy? place when we did the Uruguay Round ton was in office and when the Demo- If the State and local governments some few years ago. That established, crats controlled this Chamber, then let had been bound by such trade rules as if it was not already well-estab- us talk about WTO. when many of us joined with the people lished, that Federal and international August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7283 law already assures that neither the Chamber? Because the American peo- amble is not binding, but it starts out, WTO dispute panels nor the WTO itself ple are sick and tired of giving up our ‘‘We, the people.’’ The decision was have any capacity to compel THE U.S., States’ rights. Our veterans did not go made a long time ago. This is an abso- our U.S. government, to change its and fight and die so unelected bureau- lutely ridiculous amendment. laws or change the regulations. crats decide for us in some foreign Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I yield More specifically, only the United agreement what our laws are going to 21⁄2 minutes to the gentleman from States can decide how it will respond, be in this country. Massachusetts (Mr. MARKEY). if it does at all, to panel reports. Only It is time to wake up. I am deeply Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, on the U.S. Congress can change U.S. disturbed by the power these inter- June 16 this House passed a bill to laws. Trade panel reports are not bind- national trade organizations have ac- present a Congressional Gold Medal to ing as a matter of U.S. law, and cannot quired to change our laws. In order to Nelson Mandela. The long story, to form the basis for bringing suit in U.S. protect American jobs, we need an bring us to a point where this body courts. If a suit is brought in U.S. amendment like this. This is simply would vote a Congressional Gold Medal courts, it will not because of a trade fair to American workers, and it is fair to Nelson Mandela, began with Massa- panel dispute resolution matter, it will to our States’ rights. I urge support of chusetts University’s cutting off their be because the court otherwise has ju- the Kucinich amendment. investment in South Africa; with the risdiction. Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 State of Massachusetts passing a State Every executive agency, including minutes to the distinguished gen- law prohibiting any contacts with the the office of USTR, is charged with up- tleman from California (Mr. THOMAS), a State of South Africa. holding U.S. laws and defending them member of the Committee on Ways and b 2310 against challenges. The fears about the Means. Federal Government seeking to sue (Mr. THOMAS asked and was given And slowly but surely the inter- State governments to comply with permission to revise and extend his re- national community heard that mes- international dispute panels is to me marks.) sage, and slowly but surely the inter- totally without merit. Mr. THOMAS. Mr. Chairman, would national community tightened the The Kucinich amendment is unneces- all of the Members for just a minute re- reins around South Africa so that Nel- sary. I think it creates an issue where turn with me to 1770? This is not the son Mandela could become the elected there is none. I urge my colleagues to District of Columbia, it belongs to the president of that country. It began, oppose it. State of Maryland. We operate under though, in Massachusetts. Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I yield the Articles of Confederation, and a Another great individual, another 2 minutes to the gentleman from Ohio ship that moves along the Potomac winner of the Nobel Peace Prize lan- (Mr. NEY). stops in Maryland and has a set of guished for 5 years under House arrest Mr. NEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank the rules. It crosses the river, and it has an in Burma, Aung San Suu Kyi, leader of gentleman for yielding me the time. entirely different set of rules, because the Burmese people’s democracy move- I just want to congratulate the gen- the States set the rules. ment, placed under arrest because she tleman from Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH) on The gentleman who spoke earlier had the temerity to win 82 percent of this amendment. I think that the de- said, let the people decide. Excuse me? the vote in a democratic election. The bate tonight is really getting off tar- They did, in 1789. They said, ‘‘We, the State of Massachusetts has passed a get. There has been talk about our people of the United States, in order to law saying that we do not want to have States wanting to get more power in form a more perfect union.’’ We all business relationships with the country foreign affairs. That is how this debate agreed to form a more perfect union. of Burma. has been steered. That is not what this Part of those rules are, in Article I, Recently, Aung San Suu Kyi was re- is about. It is not about our States Section 8, ‘‘The Congress shall have the leased from House arrest, but the mili- wanting foreign powers, this is about power to regulate commerce with for- tary leaders of Burma still tightly con- foreign powers wanting to take away eign nations and among the several trol her movements. And only if we our States’ rights. States.’’ continue to keep the pressure on It has been said tonight also, in the When we deal with foreign nations in Burma will Aung San Suu Kyi one day agreement we cannot find where in fact Article II, it is done by treaties. It address a joint session of Congress. this interferes with our States’ rights says, ‘‘The President shall have power, Now, the World Trade Organization or our States’ laws. That is not true, by and with the advice and consent of believes that we should not in Massa- because when the WTO rules against the Senate, to make treaties.’’ We are chusetts be able to take action against our States and local laws, the Federal dealing with an international organiza- Burma. In Massachusetts. I am in favor Government is obligated to pursue tion which the United States relates to of GATT. I am in favor of NAFTA. I am every measure, including bringing a through treaty. The WTO cannot make in favor of free trade and global eco- legal challenge in Federal court to the United States do anything the nomic competition. The World Trade compel our local governments to repeal United States, or a subunit, does not Organization serves its purpose when it that law. That is the use of force to want to do. prevents a company from using laws to change our laws. This amendment sim- Let us look at the tenth amendment: stifle competition. The World Trade ply prohibits any taxpayers’ dollars to ‘‘The powers not delegated to the Organization serves its purpose when it be used by the Federal Government in United States by the Constitution nor prevents a state from stifling competi- the legal battles against State and prohibited by it to the States are re- tion. But it does not serve our purposes local laws. served respectively to the people.’’ For- when it denies the freedom of people in It was also mentioned when we have eign relations by treaty, the people of countries around the world from being the ability to go to WTO, we do it. Ask the United States said belong to the protected by the individual actions of the steel workers recently about Nation. States within our Nation. Hamboo in Korea. They had to beg this These Members are talking about re- Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 government to try to do something, turning to the Articles of Confed- minutes to the gentleman from Califor- with thousands of signatures. We do eration, and I cannot believe the gen- nia (Mr. DREIER), the vice chairman of not win when it comes to this issue for tleman from Vermont quoted a number the Committee on Rules and a strong the working people. We only win if an of States, including the author of this advocate of expanded trade opportuni- amendment like this is passed. amendment, that had people fight and ties. This amendment sends a message die to preserve this Union. Mr. DREIER. Mr. Chairman, I thank that the American people do not want Take a look at the Constitution, I my friend for yielding this time to me, to transfer power and responsibility say to the Members, if they have not and I have been told by my dear col- from their elected representatives to looked at it recently. What they are league from Cincinnati that the issue unelected trade bureaucrats at the advocating is the failure to honor the of South Africa has been raised WTO in Geneva. Why do Members specific language of Article I, Article throughout this debate. We need to re- think fast track went down in this II, and the tenth amendment. The pre- alize that every bit of action that was H7284 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 taken from the United States on the federal courts from giving WTO panel reports Oppose the Kucinich-Sanders amendment issue of South Africa was taken by the any deference. and demonstrate your respect for what our United States Government, as it was The truth is that if a WTO panel determines Founding Fathers intended. outlined very clearly in the arguments that a U.S. state law violates the WTO Agree- Preserve the right of Congress to establish provided by my friend from California ment, the federal government is not obligated U.S. trade and foreign policy. (Mr. THOMAS). to do anything. Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. Chairman, it is very important Under the Uruguay Round, U.S. sovereignty 30 seconds to the gentleman from Cali- to recognize what it is that the authors is actually strengthened by granting the United fornia (Mr. MILLER). of this amendment hate. They hate the States a number of options that help contain Mr. MILLER of California. Mr. Chair- international economy. They hate the the dispute and protects against the imposition man, I rise in strong support of this rules-based trading system, which has of unilateral sanctions or the initiation of a de- amendment. What a radical notion, a a very simple and basic goal. Why was structive trade war. radical notion, that the people we rep- it back in 1947 that the General Agree- Under the Uruguay Round, the U.S. govern- resent might decide that they do not ment on Tariffs and Trade was estab- ment can elect to take no action, it can nego- want to procure in local government lished and expanded to the World Trade tiate a mutually acceptable compensation, it articles made with slave labor or made Organization today? Why? It was de- can accept the suspension of trade conces- with child labor, or that they would signed to diminish tariff barriers. That sions by the prevailing party, or it can inter- want to keep their food clear of illegal is the very simple goal of the WTO. vene in federal court to overturn or nullify the pesticides and toxic materials as the And while we hear people argue this disputed law. State of California has done. What a terrible, radical notion to time and time again, it is important In the past 50 years that the General Agree- scare the opponents of this amend- for us to recognize that the WTO can- ment on Tariffs and Trade has been in effect, ment. The people that we represent not change a single law here in the the federal government has never brought a would band together and decide these United States. So what we need to do, court action to repeal or nullify a state law. decisions and make these decisions. Mr. Chairman, is we need to realize Now let me comment on my second point. They were far ahead of the Federal that our goals are simple: They are to When a local or state government seeks to Government on the issue of South Afri- break down barriers, to find new oppor- impose trade sanctions on foreign govern- ca. If the World Trade Organization tunities for U.S. products and services ments, they are going beyond their constitu- was around then, Nelson Mandela around the world and, very impor- tional authority and engaging in foreign policy. Mr. Chairman, I am a strong advocate of would never be out of prison. tantly, to maintain and expand the We have to encourage our citizens to protecting the rights of state and local govern- standard of living that we enjoy in the take these actions to protect their ac- ments. United States, which is as great as any tivities, to protect their food supply I was a lead sponsor of the Unfunded Man- country on the face of the earth. Why? and to protect human rights. Because the world has access to our date Reform Act that protects state and local Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield consumer market. governments against the imposition of un- myself the balance of the time. Defeat the Kucinich amendment. funded federal mandates, laws where we Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, may I mandate that state and local governments this amendment today. We have heard ask the Chair how much time remains compliance without providing the funds to pay phrases like it will change our laws, as on each side? for their implementation. though somehow the U.S. sovereignty The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman I also just voted in support of an amend- was at stake, but we know that is not from Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH) has 30 sec- ment offered by my colleague JIM KOLBE ban- the case. United States sovereignty is onds remaining, and the gentleman ning federal funds to implement executive quite intact here. from Arizona (Mr. KOLBE) has 2 min- order 13083. Let us just look for a moment at utes remaining and has the right to This executive order on federalism was a what really happens under the WTO or close. mistake and is opposed by all state and local the NAFTA if there is a ruling against Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield elected officials on a bipartisan basis. us because some State has taken or such time as he may consume to the But just as we should respect and protect local government has taken some kind gentleman from Virginia (Mr. MORAN). state and local authority, we should protect of action. (Mr. MORAN of Virginia asked and and respect federal authority and not under- The United States can choose to do was given permission to revise and ex- mine the ability of the U.S. government to con- absolutely nothing. We can accept the tend his remarks.) duct U.S. trade and foreign policy. consequences of it, and then the con- Mr. MORAN of Virginia. Mr. Chair- The two local laws that have given impetus sequences would be that another gov- man, I rise in opposition to this amend- to this amendment and may come before a ernment can take, under the NAFTA or ment. WTO dispute panel are the Commonwealth of the WTO, action against us, can sus- I compliment the advocates of this amend- Massachusetts' procurement policy that penal- pend some of the trading rights that ment on the clever way it has been crafted. izes business, U.S. and foreign, that do busi- they have granted, you say, because It appeals to a broader base of members ness with Burma and New York's sanctions on some local government has decided to who support states' rights and are sensitive to Swiss banks that fail to cooperate with victims do the same. the issues of federalism and preserving the of the Holocaust. So the United States can do nothing, 10th Amendment. I can sympathize and perhaps even support or we can accept it. We can abide by it Who in their right mind wants to fund the the objectives of both New York and Massa- but we can still do nothing about the Justice Department at the behest of the World chusetts. local government. We can negotiate a Trade Organization (WTO) to intervene in the But the proper place to establish these poli- compensation package where we have courts to overturn and repeal states laws or cies is at the federal level here in Congress to pay compensation to the other coun- local ordinances? and in the executive branch, not at the state try but we still have to do nothing. That, however, is not the case. or local level. The fact of the matter is, so far it First, the World Trade organization, and its If Congress feels as strongly as Massachu- has never been used by the United dispute resolution panels, have no power to setts and New York feel about human rights States, but let me tell you, ladies and compel the U.S. to change Federal, State or abuses in Burma or the lack of cooperation gentlemen, we better keep this arrow local laws and regulations; and, Swiss banks have given Holocaust victims, in our quiver. Second, state and local governments that then let us debate the merits of trade sanc- What if, for example, tomorrow the engage in sanctions on foreign governments tions or other action targeted against Burma State of California were to say they do and their nations are clearly overstepping their and Switzerland. not like Japan and they were to ban all authority under the Constitution and engaging The real issue isn't whether you oppose trade with Japan? The hundreds of bil- in U.S. foreign policy. human rights violations or sympathize with lions of dollars that would be involved Mr. Chairman, the WTO has no authority in Holocaust victims, the real issue is whether here would mean a massive tax on the the United States. you think the state and local governments rest of us to compensate for that. In fact, the federal law implementing the should set this nation's foreign policy and Now, we have heard about Nelson Uruguay Round specifically precludes U.S. trade agenda. Mandela and South Africa. The fact is, August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7285 that was coordinated and done by this The question was taken; and the Houghton Myrick Sensenbrenner Hulshof Nethercutt Sessions Congress, by the United States Govern- Chairman announced that the noes ap- Hunter Neumann Shadegg ment acting in concert with other peared to have it. Hutchinson Ney Shaw countries. It was not done by the State Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Chairman, I de- Hyde Northup Shays of Massachusetts. It was not because of mand a recorded vote and, pending Inglis Norwood Shimkus Istook Nussle Sisisky some local government doing it. It was that, I make the point of order that a Jenkins Oxley Skeen the fact that this Congress took the quorum is not present. Johnson (CT) Packard Skelton steps and our executive branch got the The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Johnson, Sam Pappas Smith (MI) efforts of other countries in step with Jones Parker Smith (NJ) Resolution 508, further proceedings on Kaptur Paul Smith (TX) us to make sure that we had this kind the amendment offered by the gen- Kasich Paxon Smith, Linda of action. tleman from Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH) are Kelly Pease Snowbarger Mr. Chairman, let me just make it postponed. Kim Peterson (MN) Solomon King (NY) Peterson (PA) Souder very clear I am a strong advocate of The point of no quorum is considered States’ rights. I offered an amendment Kingston Petri Spence withdrawn. Klug Pickering Stearns earlier on that subject. Article III, sec- Knollenberg Pickett Stenholm SEQUENTIAL VOTES POSTPONED IN COMMITTEE tion 8 says the power to regulate for- Kolbe Pitts Stump OF THE WHOLE eign commerce and the commerce be- LaHood Pombo Sununu tween States shall belong to the Fed- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Largent Porter Talent Resolution 508, proceedings will now Latham Portman Tauzin eral Government. It is right here in the Lazio Pryce (OH) Taylor (MS) Constitution. If ever anybody would resume on those amendments on which Lewis (CA) Quinn Taylor (NC) read the Constitution, it would be very further proceedings were postponed in Lewis (KY) Radanovich Thomas Linder Ramstad Thornberry clear that States’ rights works two the following order: The amendment offered by the gen- Livingston Redmond Thune ways, and the Federal Government has LoBiondo Regula Tiahrt the right to regulate this commerce. tleman from Indiana (Mr. MCINTOSH); Lucas Reyes Traficant We should vote ‘‘no’’ on this to main- amendment No. 49 offered by the gen- Manzullo Riggs Upton tleman from Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH). McCollum Riley Visclosky tain the ability of the United States to McCrery Rogan Walsh trade and to regulate commerce. Vote The Chair will reduce to 5 minutes McDade Rogers Wamp ‘‘no’’ on this amendment. the time for any electronic vote after McHale Rohrabacher Watkins Mr. GEPHARDT. Mr. Chairman, I rise in the first vote in this series. McHugh Ros-Lehtinen Watts (OK) McInnis Roukema Weldon (FL) support of the Kucinich amendment. I appre- AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. MCINTOSH McIntosh Royce Weldon (PA) ciate the concerns expressed by some oppo- The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- McIntyre Ryun Weller nents of this legislation that it could undermine ness is the demand for a recorded vote McKeon Salmon White Metcalf Sanford Whitfield the authority of the federal government to rep- on the amendment offered by the gen- Mica Saxton Wicker resent the United States on foreign policy and tleman from Indiana (Mr. MCINTOSH) Miller (FL) Scarborough Wilson trade matters. My vote today is not intended to on which further proceedings were Moran (KS) Schaefer, Dan Wolf seek to undermine that authority; rather, it rep- postponed and on which the noes pre- Murtha Schaffer, Bob Young (AK) resents my belief that we must have a more vailed by voice vote. NOES—188 activist approach to U.S. foreign and trade pol- The Clerk will designate the amend- Abercrombie Farr Luther icy, one that is more responsive to the con- ment. Ackerman Fattah Maloney (CT) cerns of localities, and one that better reflects Allen Fazio Maloney (NY) The Clerk designated the amend- Baldacci Filner Manton the values and priorities of the American peo- ment. Barcia Ford Markey ple. RECORDED VOTE Barrett (WI) Frank (MA) Martinez Clearly, states and localities should not Becerra Frost Mascara make foreign policy for our federal govern- The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Bentsen Furse Matsui ment, or take actions that undermine the U.S. been demanded. Berman Gejdenson McCarthy (MO) A recorded vote was ordered. Berry Gephardt McCarthy (NY) government's policies. However, in cases Bishop Gordon McDermott where the federal government has failed to as- The vote was taken by electronic de- Blagojevich Green McGovern sert our fundamental values of freedom, de- vice, and there were—ayes 240, noes 188, Blumenauer Gutierrez McKinney not voting 7, as follows: Bonior Hall (OH) McNulty mocracy and human rights internationally, Borski Hamilton Meehan these entities have often taken actions that [Roll No. 400] Boswell Harman Meek (FL) have spurred the federal government to assert AYES—240 Boucher Hastings (FL) Meeks (NY) Boyd Hefner Menendez U.S. leadership. The most dramatic example Aderholt Chabot Forbes Brady (PA) Hilliard Millender- Andrews Chambliss Fossella of this in recent memory is that of South Afri- Brown (CA) Hinchey McDonald Archer Chenoweth Fowler ca, where the conviction of individuals in uni- Brown (FL) Hinojosa Miller (CA) Armey Christensen Fox Brown (OH) Holden Minge versities, localities and other organizations Bachus Coble Franks (NJ) Campbell Hooley Mink Baesler Coburn Frelinghuysen generated a grassroots movement that pro- Capps Hoyer Mollohan Baker Collins Gallegly pelled our government to impose comprehen- Cardin Jackson (IL) Moran (VA) Ballenger Combest Ganske Carson Jackson-Lee Morella sive sanctions against the apartheid regime Barr Condit Gekas Clay (TX) Nadler there. This in turn inspired an international ef- Barrett (NE) Cook Gibbons Clayton Jefferson Neal Bartlett Cooksey Gilchrest fort that contributed to the downfall of South Clement John Oberstar Barton Cox Gillmor Africa's apartheid government. Clyburn Johnson (WI) Obey Bass Cramer Gilman Conyers Johnson, E. B. Olver All of our nation's democratic institutions Bateman Crane Gingrich Costello Kanjorski Ortiz should have the opportunity to participate in Bereuter Crapo Goode Coyne Kennedy (MA) Owens Bilbray Cubin Goodlatte efforts to promote positive change, both at Cummings Kennedy (RI) Pallone Bilirakis Danner Goodling home and abroad. Unfortunately, too often Davis (FL) Kennelly Pascrell Bliley Davis (VA) Goss Davis (IL) Kildee Pastor state and local entities feel that their voices Blunt Deal Graham DeFazio Kilpatrick Payne are not heard as the federal government for- Boehlert DeLay Granger DeGette Kind (WI) Pelosi Boehner Diaz-Balart Greenwood mulates policies that affect all Americans. To Delahunt Kleczka Pomeroy Bonilla Dickey Gutknecht remedy this situation, we need a process that DeLauro Klink Poshard Bono Doolittle Hall (TX) Deutsch Kucinich Price (NC) is more responsive to the legitimate concerns Brady (TX) Dreier Hansen Dicks LaFalce Rahall Bryant Duncan Hastert of localities. This amendment emphasizes the Dingell Lampson Rangel Bunning Dunn Hastings (WA) importance of giving localities the ability to Dixon Lantos Rivers Burr Ehlers Hayworth Doggett LaTourette Rodriguez voice these concerns, and would promote con- Burton Ehrlich Hefley Dooley Leach Roemer structive dialogue rather than confrontation be- Buyer Emerson Herger Doyle Lee Rothman Callahan English Hill tween them and the federal government on Edwards Levin Roybal-Allard Calvert Ensign Hilleary these important issues. Engel Lewis (GA) Rush Camp Everett Hobson The CHAIRMAN. The question is on Eshoo Lipinski Sabo Canady Ewing Hoekstra Etheridge Lofgren Sanchez the amendment offered by the gen- Cannon Fawell Horn Evans Lowey Sanders tleman from Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH). Castle Foley Hostettler H7286 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 Sandlin Stark Velazquez McKinney Pelosi Smith, Linda Taylor (NC) Upton Whitfield Sawyer Stokes Vento McNulty Peterson (MN) Spence Thomas Vento Wicker Schumer Strickland Waters Meehan Pombo Stabenow Thompson Watt (NC) Wilson Scott Stupak Watt (NC) Meek (FL) Pomeroy Stark Thornberry Weldon (FL) Wynn Serrano Tanner Waxman Meeks (NY) Poshard Stearns Thune Weller Young (AK) Sherman Tauscher Wexler Menendez Quinn Stokes Tiahrt Weygand Skaggs Thompson Weygand Metcalf Radanovich Strickland Turner White Slaughter Thurman Wise Mica Rahall Stupak Smith, Adam Tierney Woolsey Millender- Rangel Taylor (MS) NOT VOTING—7 Snyder Torres Wynn McDonald Riley Thurman Cunningham Shuster Young (FL) Spratt Towns Miller (CA) Rivers Tierney Gonzalez Smith (OR) Stabenow Turner Mink Rodriguez Torres Moakley Yates Mollohan Rohrabacher Towns NOT VOTING—7 Murtha Ros-Lehtinen Traficant b 2346 Cunningham Shuster Young (FL) Nadler Rothman Velazquez So the amendment was rejected. Gonzalez Smith (OR) Nethercutt Roybal-Allard Visclosky Moakley Yates Neumann Rush Walsh The result of the vote was announced Ney Sanders Wamp as above recorded. b 2339 Oberstar Saxton Waters The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read Obey Scarborough Watkins the last three lines of the bill. Messrs. KIM, MCHALE and GANSKE Owens Schaffer, Bob Watts (OK) changed their vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ Pallone Schumer Waxman The Clerk read as follows: Pappas Serrano Weldon (PA) This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Depart- So the amendment was agreed to. Pascrell Shaw Wexler ments of Commerce, Justice, and State, and The result of the vote was announced Pastor Sherman Wise Judiciary, and Related Agencies Appropria- as above recorded. Paul Smith (MI) Wolf tions Act, 1999’’. Payne Smith (NJ) Woolsey b 2340 Mr. STUPAK. Mr. Chairman, I rise today to NOES—228 support funding for sea lamprey control in the AMENDMENT NO. 49 OFFERED BY MR. KUCINICH Allen Frelinghuysen McKeon Great Lakes. The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- Archer Frost Miller (FL) For those who are unfamiliar with the sea ness is demand for a recorded vote on Armey Gallegly Minge lamprey, it is an eel-like creatureÐintroduced Baker Ganske Moran (KS) the amendment offered by the gen- Ballenger Gejdenson Moran (VA) into the Great Lakes by foreign ballast waterÐ tleman from Ohio (Mr. KUCINICH) on Barrett (NE) Gekas Morella which attaches itself to fish and literally sucks which further proceedings were post- Barton Gingrich Myrick the life out of the fish. poned and on which the noes prevailed Bass Goodlatte Neal Bateman Goss Northup Without proper treatment, this foreign spe- by voice vote. Bentsen Granger Norwood cies would severely threaten the $4 billion per The Clerk will redesignate the Bereuter Greenwood Nussle year Great Lakes fishing industry. amendment. Berry Hall (OH) Olver While the Great Lakes Fishery Commission Bilbray Hamilton Ortiz The Clerk redesignated the amend- Bilirakis Hansen Oxley has made great strides in fighting the sea lam- ment. Blagojevich Harman Packard prey, infestation in the St. Marys River is RECORDED VOTE Bliley Hastert Parker threatening the lake trout in northern Lake Blumenauer Hastings (WA) Paxon Huron and Lake Michigan. The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Blunt Herger Pease been demanded. Boehlert Hill Peterson (PA) More sea lamprey are produced in this river A recorded vote was ordered. Boehner Hinojosa Petri than all of the Great Lakes combined. In fact, Bonilla Hobson Pickering lamprey levels are rapidly approaching record The CHAIRMAN. This is a five- Bono Hoekstra Pickett minute vote. Boswell Hooley Pitts levels in this area, resulting in the death of The vote was taken by electronic de- Brady (TX) Horn Porter 54% of all adult lake trout. vice, and there were—ayes 200, noes 228, Brown (CA) Hostettler Portman The Senate has specifically designated Bryant Houghton Price (NC) nearly $9.4 million for the Great Lakes Fishery not voting 7, as follows: Burr Hoyer Pryce (OH) [Roll No. 401] Buyer Hulshof Ramstad Commission for fiscal year 1999. Included in Callahan Hutchinson Redmond this amount is $8.7 million for the Sea Lam- AYES—200 Calvert Hyde Regula prey operations and research program and $1 Abercrombie DeFazio Hefner Camp Jackson-Lee Reyes Ackerman DeGette Hilleary Campbell (TX) Riggs million to combat the sea lamprey infestation Aderholt Delahunt Hilliard Cannon Jefferson Roemer in the St. Marys River in Michigan. Andrews DeLauro Hinchey Cardin John Rogan We must stop this problem before we re- Bachus Deutsch Holden Castle Johnson (CT) Rogers verse the gains that have been made over the Baesler Diaz-Balart Hunter Chambliss Johnson, E.B. Roukema Baldacci Dixon Inglis Christensen Johnson, Sam Royce recent years in fighting the sea lamprey in the Barcia Doggett Istook Clement Kanjorski Ryun Great Lakes. It is my hope that the Committee Barr Doolittle Jackson (IL) Coble Kasich Sabo will concur with the Senate on these designa- Barrett (WI) Doyle Jenkins Coburn Kennelly Salmon Bartlett Duncan Johnson (WI) Collins Kim Sanchez tions during the conference committee. Becerra Emerson Jones Combest Kind (WI) Sandlin Ms. DUNN. Mr. Chairman, I rise today to Berman Engel Kaptur Cook Klug Sanford offer my support to my colleague from Or- Bishop Ensign Kelly Cooksey Knollenberg Sawyer egon, Mr. DEFAZIO, for his hard work in deter- Bonior Evans Kennedy (MA) Cox Kolbe Schaefer, Dan Borski Farr Kennedy (RI) Crane LaFalce Scott ring juveniles from recklessly and carelessly Boucher Fattah Kildee Cubin LaHood Sensenbrenner handling guns. Boyd Filner Kilpatrick Davis (FL) Lampson Sessions In Washington State alone in the 1996± Brady (PA) Forbes King (NY) Davis (VA) Largent Shadegg 1997 school year, we had 150 incidents of Brown (FL) Fowler Kingston Deal Latham Shays Brown (OH) Fox Kleczka DeLay Lazio Shimkus kids bringing handguns, rifles, or shotguns Bunning Frank (MA) Klink Dickey Leach Sisisky onto school property. Not only is it a crime Burton Franks (NJ) Kucinich Dicks Levin Skaggs under Washington State law, but under Fed- Canady Furse Lantos Dingell Lewis (CA) Skeen Capps Gephardt LaTourette Dooley Lewis (KY) Skelton eral Law it is illegal to have a firearm on Carson Gibbons Lee Dreier Linder Slaughter school grounds. Yet these juveniles are still Chabot Gilchrest Lewis (GA) Dunn Livingston Smith (TX) bringing guns to school and endangering the Chenoweth Gillmor Lipinski Edwards Lofgren Smith, Adam lives of other students. Clay Gilman LoBiondo Ehlers Lowey Snowbarger Clayton Goode Lucas Ehrlich Luther Snyder For this reason, I am introducing a bill this Clyburn Goodling Maloney (NY) English Maloney (CT) Solomon week with Mr. DEFAZIO to address the problem Condit Gordon Manton Eshoo Manzullo Souder of guns in school. Rather than mandating new Conyers Graham Markey Etheridge Martinez Spratt Costello Green Mascara Everett Matsui Stenholm state laws or creating more programs that sim- Coyne Gutierrez McCarthy (NY) Ewing McCarthy (MO) Stump ply do not work, it is our intention to establish Cramer Gutknecht McDade Fawell McCollum Sununu an incentive program for states to create a 24 Crapo Hall (TX) McGovern Fazio McCrery Talent hour cooling off period for students caught Cummings Hastings (FL) McHugh Foley McDermott Tanner Danner Hayworth McIntosh Ford McHale Tauscher with guns. These kids need to be faced with Davis (IL) Hefley McIntyre Fossella McInnis Tauzin the responsibility they bear in picking up a gun August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7287 and possessing it illegally. We cannot allow LIMITING FURTHER AMENDMENTS Manzullo Porter Smith (TX) Mascara Portman Smith, Linda another Jonesboro Arkansas, or Springfield AND DEBATE TIME DURING FUR- McCarthy (NY) Pryce (OH) Snowbarger Oregon incident. THER CONSIDERATION OF H.R. McCollum Quinn Solomon I thank Mr. DEFAZIO for bringing to the at- 2183, BIPARTISAN CAMPAIGN IN- McCrery Radanovich Souder TEGRITY ACT OF 1997 McDade Rahall Spence tention of the House and I look forward to McHugh Ramstad Stabenow sponsoring this legislation with him. I also Mr. THOMAS. Mr. Speaker, I ask McIntosh Redmond Strickland thank Chairman ROGERS for his willingness to unanimous consent that during further McKeon Regula Sununu Metcalf Riggs Talent work with us as we try to create new ways to consideration of H.R. 2183, pursuant to Mica Riley Tauzin discourage violent crime. House Resolution 442, which will be the Miller (FL) Rogan Taylor (NC) The CHAIRMAN. Are there any fur- first order of business tomorrow, that Mollohan Rogers Thomas Morella Rohrabacher Thornberry ther amendments? the amendments described in this Murtha Ros-Lehtinen Thune If not, under the rule, the Committee unanimous consent request, that is, Myrick Roukema Traficant rises. the substitute by Mr. TIERNEY, would Nethercutt Royce Upton be debated for 40 minutes; by Mr. FARR Ney Ryun Visclosky Accordingly, the Committee rose; Northup Salmon Walsh and the Speaker pro tempore (Mr. for 40 minutes; by Mr. DOOLITTLE for 40 Norwood Saxton Watkins PEASE) having assumed the chair, Mr. minutes; by Mr. OBEY for 40 minutes; Nussle Scarborough Watts (OK) by Mr. HUTCHINSON for 60 minutes; that Oxley Schaefer, Dan Weldon (FL) HASTINGS of Washington, Chairman of Packard Sessions Weldon (PA) the Committee of the Whole House on there be no amendments to those sub- Pappas Shadegg Weller the State of the Union, reported that stitutes; and that would conclude cam- Parker Shaw White that Committee, having had under con- paign reform. Pascrell Shays Whitfield The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there Paxon Shimkus Wicker sideration the bill (H.R. 4276) making Pease Skaggs Wilson appropriations for the Departments of objection to the request of the gen- Peterson (PA) Skeen Wise Commerce, Justice, and State, the Ju- tleman from California. Pitts Smith (MI) Wolf Pombo Smith (NJ) Young (AK) diciary, and related agencies for the There was no objection. fiscal year ending September 30, 1999, f NAYS—203 and for other purposes, pursuant to Abercrombie Hall (OH) Moran (VA) House Resolution 508, he reported the DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, Ackerman Hamilton Nadler JUSTICE, AND STATE, AND JUDI- Allen Harman Neal bill back to the House with sundry Andrews Hastings (FL) Neumann amendments adopted by the Commit- CIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES Barr Hefley Oberstar tee of the Whole. APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1999 Barrett (WI) Hefner Obey Bartlett Herger Olver The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under The SPEAKER pro tempore. The un- Becerra Hilleary Ortiz the rule, the previous question is or- finished business is the vote on passage Bentsen Hilliard Owens dered. of H.R. 4276. Berman Hinchey Pallone Berry Hinojosa Pastor Is a separate demanded on any The Clerk read the title of the bill. Bishop Hostettler Paul amendment? If not, the Chair will put The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursu- Blumenauer Hoyer Payne them en gros. ant to clause 7 of rule XV, the yeas and Bonior Hutchinson Pelosi nays are ordered. Boyd Jackson (IL) Peterson (MN) The amendments were agreed to. Brady (PA) Jackson-Lee Petri The vote was taken by electronic de- The SPEAKER pro temore. The ques- Brown (FL) (TX) Pickering vice, and there were—yeas 225, nays Brown (OH) Jefferson Pickett tion is on the engrossment and third 203, not voting 7, as follows: Capps John Pomeroy reading of the bill. Cardin Johnson (WI) Poshard [Roll No 402] The bill was ordered to be engrossed Carson Johnson, E. B. Price (NC) YEAS—225 Chabot Kaptur Rangel and read a third time, and was read the Chenoweth Kennedy (MA) Reyes Aderholt Collins Granger third time. Clay Kennedy (RI) Rivers Archer Combest Greenwood Clayton Kennelly Rodriguez Armey Cook Gutknecht MOTION TO RECOMMIT OFFERED BY MR. OBEY Clement Kildee Roemer Bachus Cooksey Hall (TX) Clyburn Kilpatrick Rothman Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I offer a mo- Baesler Cox Hansen Condit Kind (WI) Roybal-Allard Baker Crane Hastert tion to recommit. Conyers Kleczka Rush Baldacci Crapo Hastings (WA) The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is the Costello Klink Sabo Ballenger Cubin Hayworth Coyne Kucinich Sanchez gentleman opposed to the bill? Barcia Davis (VA) Hill Cramer LaFalce Sanders Barrett (NE) Deal Hobson Mr. OBEY. Yes; I am, Mr. Speaker. Cummings Lampson Sandlin Barton DeLay Hoekstra Danner Lantos Sanford Bass Diaz-Balart Holden Davis (FL) Largent Sawyer Bateman Dickey Hooley b 2350 Davis (IL) Lee Schaffer, Bob Bereuter Dicks Horn DeFazio Levin Schumer Bilbray Dixon Houghton The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. DeGette Lewis (GA) Scott Bilirakis Doolittle Hulshof PEASE). The Clerk will report the mo- Delahunt Lipinski Sensenbrenner Blagojevich Doyle Hunter DeLauro Lofgren Serrano tion to recommit. Bliley Dreier Hyde Deutsch Lowey Sherman Blunt Dunn Inglis The Clerk read as follows: Dingell Luther Sisisky Boehlert Ehlers Istook Doggett Maloney (CT) Skelton Mr. OBEY moves to recommit the bill, H.R. Boehner Ehrlich Jenkins Dooley Maloney (NY) Slaughter 4276, to the Committee on Appropriations. Bonilla Emerson Johnson (CT) Duncan Manton Smith, Adam Bono English Johnson, Sam Edwards Markey Snyder The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without Borski Everett Jones Engel Martinez Spratt Boswell Ewing Kanjorski objection, the previous question is or- Ensign Matsui Stark Boucher Farr Kasich dered on the motion to recommit. Eshoo McCarthy (MO) Stearns Brady (TX) Fawell Kelly Etheridge McDermott Stenholm There was no objection. Brown (CA) Foley Kim Evans McGovern Stokes Bryant Forbes King (NY) The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Fattah McHale Stump Bunning Fossella Kingston Fazio McInnis Stupak question is on the motion to recommit. Burr Fowler Klug Filner McIntyre Tanner Burton Fox Knollenberg The motion to recommit was re- Ford McKinney Tauscher Buyer Franks (NJ) Kolbe jected. Frank (MA) McNulty Taylor (MS) Callahan Frelinghuysen LaHood Frost Meehan Thompson The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Calvert Gallegly Latham Furse Meek (FL) Thurman Camp Ganske LaTourette question is on passage of the bill. Gejdenson Meeks (NY) Tiahrt Campbell Gekas Lazio Gephardt Menendez Tierney Pursuant to clause 7 of rule XV, the Canady Gilchrest Leach Gibbons Millender- Torres yeas and nays are ordered; but pursu- Cannon Gillmor Lewis (CA) Goode McDonald Towns Castle Gilman Lewis (KY) ant to clause 5 of rule I, that vote is Goodlatte Miller (CA) Turner Chambliss Gingrich Linder postponed momentarily so the Chair Gordon Minge Velazquez Christensen Goodling Livingston Green Mink Vento may entertain a unanimous consent re- Coble Goss LoBiondo Gutierrez Moran (KS) Wamp quest. Coburn Graham Lucas H7288 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998

Waters Wexler Wynn of the bill (H.R. 4380) making appro- Mr. TRAFICANT. Watt (NC) Weygand Waxman Woolsey priations for the government of the Mrs. THURMAN. District of Columbia and other activi- Mr. MARKEY. NOT VOTING—7 ties chargeable in whole or in part Mr. OBERSTAR. Cunningham Shuster Young (FL) against revenues of said District for Mr. UNDERWOOD. Gonzalez Smith (OR) Moakley Yates the fiscal year ending September 30, Mr. RAHALL. 1999, and for other purposes, which was Mr. CUMMINGS. b 0009 referred to the House Calendar and or- Mr. PALLONE. Mr. LARGENT changed his vote from dered to be printed. Mr. DEUTSCH. ‘‘yea’’ to ‘‘nay.’’ f Mr. SERRANO. Mr. BALDACCI changed his vote Mr. THOMPSON. from ‘‘nay’’ to ‘‘yea.’’ ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER (The following Members (at the re- So the bill was passed. The SPEAKER. The Chair desires to quest of Mr. CAMPBELL) and to include The result of the vote was announced announce that pursuant to clause 4 of extraneous material:) as above recorded. rule I, the Speaker signed the following Mr. MICA. A motion to reconsider was laid on enrolled bill on Wednesday, August 5, Mrs. JOHNSON of Connecticut. the table. 1998. Mr. NORWOOD. f H.R. 1151. An act to amend the Federal Mr. BOB SCHAFFER of Colorado. Credit Union Act to clarify existing law with Mr. PORTER. REMOVAL OF NAME OF MEMBER regard to the field of membership of Federal Mr. GREENWOOD. AS COSPONSOR OF H.R. 2537 credit unions, to preserve the integrity and Mr. HILLEARY. Mr. DeFAZIO. Mr. Speaker, I ask purpose of Federal credit unions, to enhance Mr. LUCAS. supervisory oversight of insured credit Mr. FORBES. unanimous consent that my name be unions, and for other purposes. removed as cosponsor of H.R. 2537. Mr. HERGER. f The SPEAKER. Is there objection to Mr. GILMAN. the request of the gentleman from Or- LEAVE OF ABSENCE Mr. PAUL. Mr. PICKERING. egon? By unanimous consent, leave of ab- Mrs. EMERSON. There was no objection. sence was granted to: f Mr. MCINNIS (at the request of Mr. f b 0010 ARMEY) for today after 1:30 p.m., on ac- ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED count of medical reasons. LIMITING FURTHER AMENDMENTS Mr. YATES (at the request of Mr. GEP- Mr. THOMAS, from the Committee AND DEBATE TIME DURING FUR- HARDT) for today after 6:15 p.m., on ac- on House Oversight, reported that that THER CONSIDERATION OF H.R. count of physical reasons. committee had examined and found 2183, BIPARTISAN CAMPAIGN IN- f truly enrolled a bill of the House of the TEGRITY ACT OF 1997 following title, which was thereupon Mr. THOMAS. Mr. Speaker, I ask SPECIAL ORDERS GRANTED signed by the Speaker: unanimous consent that the order of By unanimous consent, permission to H.R. 1151. An act to amend the Federal the House just adopted be elaborated as address the House, following the legis- Credit Union Act to clarify existing law with follows: lative program and any special orders regard to the field of membership of Federal credit unions, to preserve the integrity and In consideration of H.R. 2183, pursu- heretofore entered, was granted to: purpose of Federal credit unions, to enhance ant to House Resolution 442, (1) no fur- (The following Members (at the re- supervisory oversight of insured credit ther amendment shall be in order ex- quest of Mr. PALLONE) to revise and ex- unions, and for other purposes. cept those amendments described in tend their remarks and include extra- f this request, which may be offered only neous material:) in the order stated and shall not be Mr. UNDERWOOD, for 5 minutes, today. SENATE ENROLLED BILLS AND subject to amendment; and (2) the addi- Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA, for 5 minutes, JOINT RESOLUTION SIGNED tional period of general debate pre- today. The SPEAKER announced his signa- scribed under House Resolution 442 Mrs. MINK of Hawaii, for 5 minutes, ture to enrolled bills and a joint resolu- shall not exceed the time stated for today. tion of the Senate of the following ti- each amendment in this request, and (The following Members (at the re- tles: each amendment shall not otherwise be quest of Mr. CAMPBELL) to revise and S. 1759. An act to grant a Federal charter debatable. extend their remarks and include ex- to the American GI Forum of the United The amendments described in this re- traneous material:) States. quest are amendments in the nature of Mr. CAMPBELL, for 5 minutes, on Au- S. 2143. An act to amend chapter 45 of title a substitute printed in the CONGRES- gust 6. 28, United States Code, to authorize the Ad- SIONAL RECORD pursuant to clause 6 of Mr. KINGSTON, for 5 minutes, today. ministrative Assistant to the Chief Justice rule XXIII and numbered: 15, Mr. Mr. FOSSELLA, for 5 minutes, today. to accept voluntary services, and for other purposes. TIERNEY, 40 minutes; 7, Mr. FARR of f S. 2344. An act to amend the Agricultural California, 40 minutes; 5, Mr. DOO- EXTENSION OF REMARKS Market Transaction Act to provide for the LITTLE, 40 minutes; 4, Mr. OBEY, 40 min- advance payment, in full, of the fiscal year utes; and 8, Mr. HUTCHINSON, 60 min- By unanimous consent, permission to 1999 payments otherwise required under pro- utes. revise and extend remarks was granted duction flexibility contracts. The SPEAKER. Is there objection to to: S.J. Res. 54. A joint resolution finding the the request of the gentleman from (The following Members (at the re- Government of Iraq in unacceptable and ma- California? quest of Mr. PALLONE) and to include terial breach of its international obligations. There was no objection. extraneous material:) f f Mr. KIND. Mr. KANJORSKI. BILL PRESENTED TO THE REPORT ON RESOLUTION PROVID- Mr. LAFALCE. PRESIDENT ING FOR CONSIDERATION OF Mr. STARK. Mr. THOMAS, from the Committee H.R. 4380, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA Ms. NORTON. on House Oversight, reported that the APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1999 Mr. TOWNS. committee did on this day present to Mr. SOLOMON, from the Committee Mr. SANDERS. the President, for his approval, a bill of on Rules, submitted a privileged report Mr. DIXON. the House of the following title: (Rept. No. 105–679) on the resolution Mr. FILNER. H.R. 1151. An act to amend the Federal (H.Res. 517) providing for consideration Mr. MCDERMOTT. Credit Union Act to clarify existing law with August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7289

regard to the field of membership of Federal SHADEGG, Mr. DELAY, Mr. BEREUTER, By Mr. LUCAS of Oklahoma (for him- credit unions, to preserve the integrity and Mr. THORNBERRY, Mr. SKELTON, Mr. self and Mr. WATKINS): purpose of Federal credit Unions, to enhance BATEMAN, Mr. HUNTER, Mr. REYES, H.R. 4409. A bill to amend the Watershed supervisory oversight of insured credit Mr. SAXTON, Mr. GILMAN, Ms. DUNN of Protection and Flood Prevention Act to au- unions, and for other purposes. Washington, Mr. GOSS, Mr. SOLOMON, thorize the Secretary of Agriculture to pro- vide cost share assistance for the rehabilita- f Mrs. CUBIN, Mr. BLAGOJEVICH, Mr. TANNER, Ms. SANCHEZ, Mr. TAYLOR of tion of structural measures constructed as ADJOURNMENT Mississippi, Mr. GOODE, Mr. STEN- part of water resource projects previously HOLM, Mr. BERRY, Mr. EDWARDS, Mr. funded by the Secretary under such Act or Mr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Speaker, I UNDERWOOD, Mr. BOB SCHAFFER, Mr. related laws; to the Committee on Agri- move that the House do now adjourn. GIBBONS, Mr. MEEHAN, Mr. CRAMER, culture, and in addition to the Committees The motion was agreed to; accord- and Mr. ADERHOLT): on Resources, and Transportation and Infra- ingly (at 12 o’clock and 15 minutes H.R. 4402. A bill to declare it to be the pol- structure, for a period to be subsequently de- a.m.), the House adjourned until today, icy of the United States to deploy a national termined by the Speaker, in each case for Thursday, August 6, 1998, at 10 a.m. missile defense; to the Committee on Na- consideration of such provisions as fall with- tional Security, and in addition to the Com- in the jurisdiction of the committee con- f mittee on International Relations, for a pe- cerned. By Mr. LAFALCE (for himself, Mr. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON riod to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of YATES, and Mr. KENNEDY of Massa- PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS such provisions as fall within the jurisdic- chusetts): Under clause 2 of rule XIII, reports of tion of the committee concerned. H.R. 4410. A bill to amend the Truth in committees were delivered to the Clerk By Mr. STARK (for himself, Mr. Lending Act to protect consumers from cer- CARDIN, Mr. KLECZKA, and Mr. LEWIS tain unreasonable practices of credit cards for printing and reference to the proper issuers which result in cancellation of credit, calendar, as follows: of Georgia): H.R. 4403. A bill to amend title XVIII of the higher fees or rates of interest, or other pen- Mr. YOUNG of Alaska: Committee on Re- Social Security Act to provide for coverage alties that result in higher or unnecessary sources. H.R. 1042. A bill to amend the Illi- of substitute adult day care services under costs to card holders who pay credit card nois and Michigan Canal Heritage Corridor the Medicare Program; to the Committee on balances in full, and for other purposes; to Act of 1984 to extend the Illinois and Michi- Ways and Means, and in addition to the Com- the Committee on Banking and Financial gan Canal Heritage Corridor Commission; mittee on Commerce, for a period to be sub- Services. with an amendment (Rept. 105–676). Referred sequently determined by the Speaker, in By Mr. MALONEY of Connecticut: to the Committee of the Whole House on the each case for consideration of such provi- H.R. 4411. A bill to amend the Internal Rev- State of the Union. sions as fall within the jurisdiction of the enue Code of 1986 to allow employers who Mr. YOUNG of Alaska: Committee on Re- committee concerned. maintain a self-insured health plan for their employees a credit against income tax for a sources. H.R. 2000. A bill to amend the Alas- By Mr. HILLEARY (for himself, Mr. portion of the cost paid for providing health ka Native Claims Settlement Act to make RAHALL, Mr. ADERHOLT, Mr. COOK, coverage for their employees; to the Com- certain clarifications to the land bank pro- Mr. HALL of Texas, Mr. MCINTOSH, mittee on Ways and Means. tection provisions, and for other purposes; Mr. SANDERS, and Ms. STABENOW): with an amendment (Rept. 105–677). Referred H.R. 4404. A bill to amend title XVIII of the By Mr. MARKEY: H.R. 4412. A bill to impose restrictions on to the Committee of the Whole House on the Social Security Act to modify the standards the sale of cigars; to the Committee on Com- State of the Union. for calculating the per beneficiary payment merce. Mr. YOUNG of Alaska: Committee on Re- limits under the interim payment system for sources. H.R. 2993. A bill to provide for the By Mr. MCDERMOTT: home health services furnished by home H.R. 4413. A bill to amend the Public collection of fees for the making of motion health agencies under the Medicare Program Health Service Act, the Employee Retire- pictures, television productions, and sound and the standards for setting payments rates ment Income Security Act of 1974, and the tracks in National Park System and Na- under the prospective payment system for Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to assure tional Wildlife Refuge System units, and for such services to achieve fair reimbursement prompt payment of participating providers other purposes; with an amendment (Rept. payment rates; to the Committee on Ways under health plans; to the Committee on 105–678). Referred to the Committee of the and Means, and in addition to the Committee Commerce, and in addition to the Commit- Whole House on the State of the Union. on Commerce, for a period to be subse- tees on Education and the Workforce, and [Filed on August 6 (Legislative day, August 5), quently determined by the Speaker, in each Ways and Means, for a period to be subse- 1998] case for consideration of such provisions as quently determined by the Speaker, in each Mrs. MYRICK: Committee on Rules. House fall within the jurisdiction of the committee case for consideration of such provisions as Resolution 517. Resolution providing for con- concerned. fall within the jurisdiction of the committee sideration of the bill (H.R. 4380) making ap- By Mr. ADERHOLT: concerned. H.R. 4405. A bill to amend section 3332 of propriations for the government of the Dis- By Mr. NEUMANN: title 31, United States Code, to allow recipi- trict of Columbia and other activities H.R. 4414. A bill to amend the Internal Rev- ents of Federal payments to ‘‘opt out’’ of the chargeable in whole or in part against the enue Code of 1986 to repeal the 1993 increase direct deposit requirements under the EFT revenues of said District for the fiscal year in taxes on Social Security benefits; to the ’99 program; to the Committee on Govern- ending September 30, 1999, and for other pur- Committee on Ways and Means, and in addi- ment Reform and Oversight. poses (Rept. 105–679). Referred to the House tion to the Committee on the Budget, for a By Mr. FILNER: Calendar. period to be subsequently determined by the H.R. 4406. A bill to amend title I of the Em- Speaker, in each case for consideration of f ployee Retirement Income Security Act of such provisions as fall within the jurisdic- 1974 to provide that any participant or bene- PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS tion of the committee concerned. ficiary under an employee benefit plan shall By Mr. TRAFICANT: Under clause 5 of Rule X and clause 4 be entitled to de novo review in court of ben- H.R. 4415. A bill to amend title 5, United of Rule XXII, public bills and resolu- efit determinations under such plan; to the States Code, to provide that the mandatory tions were introduced and severally re- Committee on Education and the Workforce. retirement age for members of the Capitol By Mr. HERGER (for himself, Mr. MAT- ferred, as follows: Police be increased from 57 to 60; to the Com- SUI, Mr. ENSIGN, Mr. MCCRERY, Mr. mittee on House Oversight, and in addition By Mr. MICA: MCDERMOTT, Mrs. THURMAN, Mr. to the Committee on Government Reform H.R. 4401. A bill to amend title 5, United SMITH of Oregon, Mr. POMBO, Mr. and Oversight, for a period to be subse- States Code, to provide for the establishment HUNTER, Mr. DOOLEY of California, quently determined by the Speaker, in each of a program under which long-term care in- Mr. GIBBONS, and Mr. BLUMENAUER): case for consideration of such provisions as surance may be obtained by Federal employ- H.R. 4407. A bill to amend the Internal Rev- fall within the jurisdiction of the committee ees and annuitants; to the Committee on enue Code of 1986 to provide that the credit concerned. Government Reform and Oversight. for electricity produced from certain renew- By Mr. CALVERT: By Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania (for able resources shall apply to electricity pro- H. Con. Res. 318. Concurrent resolution ex- himself, Mr. SPRATT, Mr. PICKETT, duced from all biomass facilities and to ex- pressing the sense of the Congress that the Mr. EVERETT, Mr. ARMEY, Mr. ABER- tend the placed in service deadline for such Federal Trade Commission should exercise CROMBIE, Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland, credit; to the Committee on Ways and its broad authority under the Federal Trade Mr. RYUN, Ms. GRANGER, Mr. WATTS Means. Commission Act to investigate businesses of Oklahoma, Mr. SPENCE, Mr. AN- By Mr. HUNTER: that are engaging in the deceptive advertis- DREWS, Mr. SNYDER, Mr. HALL of H.R. 4408. A bill to amend the Internal Rev- ing practice of misrepresenting their geo- Texas, Mr. DICKS, Mr. TURNER, Mr. enue Code of 1986 to provide that tips shall graphic locations in telephone listings, LIVINGSTON, Mr. ORTIZ, Mr. SISISKY, not be subject to income or employment Internet advertisements, and other advertis- Mr. HOYER, Mr. COX of California, Mr. taxes; to the Committee on Ways and Means. ing media; to the Committee on Commerce. H7290 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998

By Mr. HALL of Ohio: H.R. 3702: Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA, Mr. STUPAK, H. Con. Res. 304: Mrs. MALONEY of New H. Con. Res. 319. Concurrent resolution and Mr. ALLEN. York. honoring the accomplishments of members H.R. 3710: Mr. BLILEY, Mr. MANZULLO, Mr. H. Res. 312: Mr. DAVIS of Illinois and Mr. of the United States Air Force and other GOODLING, Mr. DOOLEY of California, Mr. RODRIGUEZ. Americans working under Air Force leader- JACKSON, Mr. JOHN, Mr. ENGLISH of Pennsyl- H. Res. 381: Mr. STUMP. ship who contributed to the development of vania, Mr. BOEHLERT, Ms. FURSE, Ms. KIL- supersonic flight technology; to the Commit- PATRICK, Mr. MINGE, Mr. YOUNG of Alaska, f tee on National Security. and Mr. BILIRAKIS. By Mr. SHIMKUS (for himself and Mr. H.R. 3738: Mr. MORAN of Virginia, Mr. KUCINICH): LAMPSON, Mr. LEWIS of Georgia, Mr. DELETIONS OF SPONSORS FROM H. Con. Res. 320. Concurrent resolution BALDACCI, Mr. LUTHER, Mrs. CAPPS, and Ms. PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS SLAUGHTER. supporting the Baltic people of Estonia, Lat- Under clause 4 of rule XXII, sponsors via, and Lithuania, and condemning the H.R. 3749: Mr. LATOURETTE. Nazi-Soviet Pact of Non-Aggression of Au- H.R. 3766: Mr. BOYD. were deleted from public bills and reso- gust 23, 1939; to the Committee on Inter- H.R. 3779: Mr. MANTON, Ms. MCCARTHY of lutions as follows: national Relations. Missouri, Mrs. MALONEY of New York, Mrs. H.R. 2537: Mr. DEFAZIO. By Mr. SNOWBARGER (for himself, LOWEY, Mr. RANGEL, Mr. SERRANO, Mr. Mr. TALENT, Mr. HOSTETTLER, Mr. WYNN, Mr. ETHERIDGE, Ms. DANNER, Mr. MAS- f BURTON of Indiana, and Mr. TIAHRT): CARA, Mr. BOEHLERT, Mr. MOAKLEY, and Mr. H. Con. Res. 321. Concurrent resolution ex- MCGOVERN. pressing the sense of the Congress that H.R. 3780: Mr. HOUGHTON and Mrs. ROU- AMENDMENTS money saved from efforts to combat waste, KEMA. Under clause 6 of rule XXIII, pro- fraud, and abuse in the Medicare Program H.R. 3795: Mr. EHRLICH. H.R. 3837: Mr. BARRETT of Wisconsin and posed amendments were submitted as should be deposited in the Federal Hospital follows: Insurance Trust Fund to ensure the financial Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. integrity of the Medicare Program; to the H.R. 3879: Mr. RYUN, Mr. COBURN, and Mr. H.R. 3012 HINOJOSA. Committee on Ways and Means, and in addi- OFFERED BY: MR. POMEROY H.R. 3905: Mr. NORWOOD and Mr. DEAL of tion to the Committee on Commerce, for a Georgia. (Amendment in the Nature of a Substitue) period to be subsequently determined by the H.R. 3925: Mr. BALDACCI. Amendment No. 1: Strike all after the en- Speaker, in each case for consideration of H.R. 3935: Mr. YATES, Mr. MCGOVERN, Mr. acting clause and insert the following: such provisions as fall within the jurisdic- KENNEDY of Rhode Island, Ms. JACKSON-LEE, tion of the committee concerned. SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. Mr. TIERNEY, Mr. MEEHAN, Mr. OLVER, Ms. This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Dakota f PELOSI, Mr. NEAL of Massachusetts, Mr. Water Resources Act of 1998’’. DELAHUNT, Mr. SERRANO, and Mr. NADLER. ADDITIONAL SPONSORS H.R. 4006: Mr. WELDON of Florida. SEC. 2. PURPOSES AND AUTHORIZATION. Under clause 4 of rule XXII, sponsors H.R. 4027: Ms. KAPTUR and Mr. STENHOLM. Section 1 of Public Law 89–108 (79 Stat. 433; 100 Stat. 418) is amended— were added to public bills and resolu- H.R. 4031: Mr. LANTOS. H.R. 4118: Mr. SAWYER. (1) in subsection (a)— tions as follows: H.R. 4125: Mr. GOODLATTE. (A) in paragraph (2), by striking ‘‘of’’ and H.R. 465: Mrs. THURMAN. H.R. 4126: Mr. RILEY. inserting ‘‘within’’; H.R. 519: Mr. DEUTSCH. H.R. 4151: Mr. ABERCROMBIE. (B) in paragraph (5), by striking ‘‘more H.R. 857: Mr. BILIRAKIS. H.R. 4155: Mr. REGULA and Mr. ENGLISH of timely’’ and inserting ‘‘appropriate’’; and H.R. 979: Mr. FAWELL. Pennsylvania. (C) in paragraph (7), by striking ‘‘federally- H.R. 1035: Mr. HALL of Texas. H.R. 4196: Ms. MORAN of Kansas and Mrs. assisted water resource development project H.R. 1061: Mr. SANDERS. EMERSON. providing irrigation for 130,940 acres of land’’ H.R. 1126: Mr. WATT of North Carolina. H.R. 4199: Ms. DELAURO, Mrs. KELLY, Mr. and inserting ‘‘multipurpose federally as- H.R. 1168: Mr. LIPINSKI, Mr. TANNER, Mr. GILMAN, Mrs. MALONEY of New York, and Mr. sisted water resource project providing irri- SOUDER, Mr. ENSIGN, and Mr. EVERETT. ANDREWS. gation, municipal, rural, and industrial H.R. 1202: Mr. MCGOVERN and Mr. POSHARD. H.R. 4200: Mrs. KELLY, Mr. GILMAN, Mrs. water systems, fish, wildlife, and other natu- H.R. 1401: Mr. JOHNSON of Wisconsin and MALONEY of New York, and Mr. ANDREWS. ral resource conservation and development, Mr. EVANS. H.R. 4211: Mr. CALVERT, Ms. BROWN of Flor- recreation, flood control, ground water re- H.R. 1531: Ms. WATERS. ida, Mr. CRAMER, Mr. BISHOP, Mr. LIPINSKI, charge, and augmented stream flows’’; H.R. 1760: Mr. HOSTETTLER. Mr. HORN, Mr. WATT of North Carolina, Mr. (2) in subsection (b)— H.R. 2072: Mr. BENTSEN. UNDERWOOD, Mr. RANGEL, Mr. SPRATT, Mr. (A) by inserting ‘‘, jointly with the State H.R. 2189: Mr. KING of New York. SCOTT, and Mr. SABO. of North Dakota,’’ after ‘‘construct’’; H.R. 2321: Mr. RUSH. H.R. 4224: Mr. SANDLIN. (B) by striking ‘‘the irrigation of 130,940 H.R. 2380: Mr. WELLER. H.R. 4233: Mr. ENGEL, Mr. LANTOS, Mrs. acres’’ and inserting ‘‘irrigation’’; H.R. 2504: Mr. HUTCHINSON. MORELLA, Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts, (C) by striking ‘‘fish and wildlife conserva- H.R. 2524: Ms. KILPATRICK and Mr. VENTO. and Mr. BLAGOJEVICH. tion’’ and inserting ‘‘fish, wildlife, and other H.R. 2526: Mr. OLVER. H.R. 4257: Mr. FATTAH. natural resource conservation’’; HRISTENSEN H.R. 2537: Mr. HAYWORTH. H.R. 4285: Mr. C . (D) by inserting ‘‘augmented stream flows, H.R. 4296: Mr. MCHUGH, Mr. ENGLISH of H.R. 2609: Mr. SPRATT. ground water recharge,’’ after ‘‘flood con- Pennsylvania, and Mr. DAVIS of Virginia. H.R. 2635: Mrs. THURMAN. trol,’’; and H.R. 4308: Mr. UNDERWOOD and Mr. MAR- H.R. 2733: Mr. GILMAN, Mr. RADANOVICH, (E) by inserting ‘‘(as modified by the Da- KEY. Mr. CASTLE, Mr. DIXON, Mrs. KELLY, Mr. MIL- kota Water Resources Act of 1998)’’ before H.R. 4309: Mr. UNDERWOOD and Mr. MAR- LER of Florida, and Mr. POSHARD. the period at the end; KEY. H.R. 2821: Mr. METCALF. (3) in subsection (e), by striking ‘‘termi- H.R. 4327: Mr. RYUN. H.R. 2923: Mr. BERRY. nated’’ and all that follows and inserting H.R. 4332: Mr. HERGER, Mr. ENSIGN, Mr. LI- H.R. 2953: Mr. RANGEL. ‘‘terminated.’’; and PINSKI, and Mrs. THURMAN. H.R. 2955: Mr. LIPINSKI, Mr. SPRATT, and (4) by striking subsections (f) and (g) and H.R. 4339: Mr. SPENCE, Mr. STUPAK, and Mr. Mr. BROWN of Ohio. inserting the following: KLINK. H.R. 2968: Mr. GOODLING. ‘‘(f) COSTS.— H.R. 4340: Mr. CARDIN, Mr. FOX of Pennsyl- H.R. 2995: Mr. RANGEL and Mrs. THURMAN. ‘‘(1) ESTIMATE.—The Secretary shall esti- vania, and Mrs. MYRICK. H.R. 3049: Mr. PAYNE. H.R. 4361: Mr. FOLEY. mate— H.R. 3064: Mr. TRAFICANT and Mr. YATES. H.R. 4367: Mr. SMITH of New Jersey. ‘‘(A) the actual construction costs of the H.R. 3066: Mr. SCHUMER. H.R. 4370: Mr. Towns, Mr. TURNER, and facilities (including mitigation facilities) in H.R. 3177: Mrs. LINDA SMITH of Washington. Mrs. CAPPS. existence as of the date of enactment of the H.R. 3248: Mr. UPTON. H.R. 4399: Mr. WATKINS, Mr. CRAPO, and Mr. Dakota Water Resources Act of 1998; and H.R. 3400: Mr. ENGEL and Mr. MILLER of HILL. ‘‘(B) the annual operation, maintenance, California. H. Con. Res. 39: Mr. PORTER. and replacement costs associated with the H.R. 3602: Mr. BUYER. H. Con. Res. 185: Mr. ROTHMAN, Mr. WAX- used and unused capacity of the features in H.R. 3622: Mr. MOAKLEY. MAN, and Mr. WATT of North Carolina. existence as of that date. H.R. 3637: Mr. BISHOP and Mr. FOX of Penn- H. Con. Res. 203: Mr. MARKEY. ‘‘(2) REPAYMENT CONTRACT.—An appro- sylvania. H. Con. Res. 254: Mr. PORTER. priate repayment contract shall be nego- H.R. 3659: Ms. BROWN of Florida, Mr. EN- H. Con. Res. 258: Ms. ESHOO. tiated that provides for the making of a pay- SIGN, Mr. MINGE, and Mr. HANSEN. H. Con. Res. 299: Mrs. EMERSON, Mr. ment for each payment period in an amount H.R. 3687: Mr. COMBEST. RADANOVICH, and Mr. GOODLING. that is commensurate with the percentage of August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7291 the total capacity of the project that is in ation and fish and wildlife enhancement’’ may be developed in the Hudson Bay/Devils actual use during the payment period. and inserting ‘‘to administer for recreation’’; Lake Basin. ‘‘(3) OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE COSTS.— and ‘‘(3) NO EXCESS DEVELOPMENT.—The Sec- The Secretary shall be responsible for the (II) by striking ‘‘which are not included retary shall not develop irrigation in the costs of operation and maintenance of the within Federal waterfowl refuges and water- service areas described in paragraph (1) in proportionate share attributable to the ca- fowl production areas’’; and excess of the acreage specified in that para- pacity of the facilities (including mitigation (ii) in the second sentence, by striking ‘‘or graph, except that the Secretary shall de- facilities) that remain unused. fish and wildlife enhancement’’; and velop up to 28,000 acres of irrigation in other ‘‘(g) AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE SECRETARY (D) in the first sentence of paragraph (3) areas of North Dakota (such as the Elk/ AND THE STATE.—The Secretary shall enter (as redesignated by subparagraph (A))— Charbonneau, Mon-Dak, Nesson Valley, into 1 or more agreements with the State of (i) by striking ‘‘, within ten years after ini- Horsehead Flats, and Oliver-Mercer areas) North Dakota to carry out this Act, includ- tial operation of the unit,’’; and that are not located in the Hudson Bay/Dev- ing operation and maintenance of the com- (ii) by striking ‘‘paragraph (1) of this sub- ils Lake drainage basin or James River pleted unit facilities and the design and con- section’’ and inserting ‘‘paragraph (2)’’; drainage basin. struction of authorized new unit facilities by (3) in subsection (f), by striking ‘‘and fish ‘‘(4) PUMPING POWER.—Irrigation develop- the State. and wildlife enhancement’’; and ment authorized by this section shall be con- ‘‘(h) BOUNDARY WATERS TREATY OF 1909.— (4) in subsection (j)— sidered authorized units of the Pick-Sloan ‘‘(1) DELIVERY OF WATER INTO THE HUDSON (A) in paragraph (1), by striking ‘‘prior to Missouri Basin Program and eligible to re- BAY BASIN.—Water systems constructed the completion of construction of Lonetree ceive project pumping power. under this Act may deliver Missouri River Dam and Reservoir’’; and ‘‘(5) PRINCIPLE SUPPLY WORKS.—The Sec- water into the Hudson Bay basin only after (B) by adding at the end the following: retary shall complete and maintain the prin- the Secretary, in consultation with the Sec- ‘‘(4) TAAYER RESERVOIR.—Taayer Reservoir ciple supply works as identified in the 1984 retary of State and the Administrator of the is deauthorized as a project feature. The Sec- Garrison Diversion Unit Commission Final Environmental Protection Agency, deter- retary, acting through the Commissioner of Report dated December 20, 1984 as modified mines that adequate treatment has been pro- Reclamation, shall acquire (including acqui- by the Dakota Water Resources Act of 1998.’’; vided to meet the requirements of the Treaty sition through donation or exchange) up to (2) by redesignating subsections (d), (e), Between the United States and Great Britain 5,000 acres in the Kraft and Pickell Slough and (f) as subsections (b), (c), and (d), respec- relating to Boundary Waters Between the areas and to manage the area as a compo- tively; United States and Canada, signed at Wash- nent of the National Wildlife Refuge System (3) in the first sentence of subsection (b) ington January 11, 1909 (36 Stat. 2448; TS 548) giving consideration to the unique wildlife (as redesignated by paragraph (2)), by strik- (commonly known as the ‘Boundary Waters values of the area. In acquiring the lands ing ‘‘(a)(1)’’ and inserting ‘‘(a)’’; Treaty of 1909’). which comprise the Kraft and Pickell Slough (4) in the first sentence of subsection (c) ‘‘(2) COSTS.—All costs of construction, op- complex, the Secretary shall acquire wet- (as redesignated by paragraph (2)), by strik- eration, maintenance, and replacement of lands in the immediate vicinity which may ing ‘‘Lucky Mound (7,700 acres), Upper Six water treatment and related facilities au- be hydrologically related and nearby uplands Mile Creek (7,500 acres)’’ and inserting thorized by this Act and attributable to as may be necessary to provide for proper ‘‘Lucky Mound (7,700 acres) and Upper Six meeting the requirements of the treaty re- management of the complex. The Secretary Mile Creek (7,500 acres), or such other lands ferred to in paragraph (1) shall be non- shall provide for appropriate visitor access at Fort Berthold of equal acreage as may be reimbursable.’’. and control at the refuge. selected by the tribe and approved by the SEC. 3. FISH AND WILDLIFE. ‘‘(5) DEAUTHORIZATION OF LONETREE DAM Secretary,’’; and Section 2 of Public Law 89–108 (79 Stat. 433; AND RESERVOIR.—The Lonetree Dam and Res- (5) by adding at the end the following: 100 Stat. 419) is amended— ervoir is deauthorized, and the Secretary ‘‘(e) IRRIGATION REPORT TO CONGRESS.— (1) by striking subsections (b), (c), and (d) shall designate the lands acquired for the ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall in- and inserting the following: former reservoir site as a wildlife conserva- vestigate and prepare a detailed report on ‘‘(b) FISH AND WILDLIFE COSTS.—All fish tion area. The Secretary shall enter into an the undesignated 28,000 acres in subsection and wildlife enhancement costs incurred in agreement with the State of North Dakota (a)(3) as to costs and benefits for any irriga- connection with waterfowl refuges, water- providing for the operation and maintenance tion units to be developed under Reclama- fowl production areas, and wildlife conserva- of the wildlife conservation area as an en- tion law. tion areas proposed for Federal or State ad- hancement feature, the costs of which shall ‘‘(2) FINDING.—The report shall include a ministration shall be nonreimbursable. be paid by the Secretary. If the features se- finding on the financial and engineering fea- ‘‘(c) RECREATION AREAS.— lected under section 8 include a buried pipe- sibility of the proposed irrigation unit, but ‘‘(1) COSTS.—If non-Federal public bodies line and appurtenances between the shall be limited to the undesignated 28,000 continue to agree to administer land and McClusky Canal and New Rockford Canal, acres. water areas approved for recreation and the use of the wildlife conservation area and ‘‘(3) AUTHORIZATION.—If the Secretary finds agree to bear not less than 50 percent of the Sheyenne Lake National Wildlife Refuge for that the proposed construction is feasible, separable costs of the unit allocated to recre- such route is hereby authorized.’’. such irrigation units are authorized without ation and attributable to those areas and all SEC. 4. INTEREST CALCULATION. further Act of Congress. the costs of operation, maintenance, and re- Section 4 of Public Law 89–108 (100 Stat. ‘‘(4) DOCUMENTATION.—No expenditure for placement incurred in connection therewith, 435) is amended by adding at the end the fol- the construction of facilities authorized the remainder of the separable capital costs lowing: ‘‘Interest during construction shall under this section shall be made until after so allocated and attributed shall be non- be calculated only until such date as the the Secretary, in cooperation with the State reimbursable. Secretary declares any particular feature to of North Dakota, has prepared the appro- ‘‘(2) APPROVAL.—The recreation areas shall be substantially complete, regardless of priate documentation in accordance with be approved by the Secretary in consultation whether the feature is placed into service.’’. section 1 and pursuant to the National Envi- and coordination with the State of North Da- SEC. 5. IRRIGATION FACILITIES. ronmental Policy Act of 1969 (42 U.S.C. 4321 kota. Section 5 of Public Law 89–108 (100 Stat. et seq.) analyzing the direct and indirect im- ‘‘(d) NON-FEDERAL SHARE.—The non-Fed- 419) is amended— pacts of implementing the report.’’. eral share of the separable capital costs of (1) by striking ‘‘SEC. 5. (a)(1)’’ and all that SEC. 6. POWER. the unit allocated to recreation shall be follows through subsection (c) and inserting Section 6 of Public Law 89–108 (79 Stat. 435; borne by non-Federal interests, using the fol- the following: 100 Stat. 421) is amended— lowing methods, as the Secretary may deter- ‘‘SEC. 5. IRRIGATION FACILITIES. (1) in subsection (b)— mine to be appropriate: ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.— (A) by striking ‘‘Notwithstanding the pro- ‘‘(1) Services in kind. ‘‘(1) AUTHORIZED DEVELOPMENT.—In addi- visions of’’ and inserting ‘‘Pursuant to the ‘‘(2) Payment, or provision of lands, inter- tion to the 5,000-acre Oakes Test Area in ex- provisions of’’; and ests therein, or facilities for the unit. istence on the date of enactment of the Da- (B) by striking ‘‘revenues,’’ and all that ‘‘(3) Repayment, with interest, within 50 kota Water Resources Act of 1998, the Sec- follows and inserting ‘‘revenues.’’; and years of first use of unit recreation facili- retary may develop irrigation in— (2) by striking subsection (c) and inserting ties.’’; ‘‘(A) the Turtle Lake service area (13,700 the following: (2) in subsection (e)— acres); ‘‘(c) NO INCREASE IN RATES OR AFFECT ON (A) by redesignating paragraphs (1) and (2) ‘‘(B) the McClusky Canal service area REPAYMENT METHODOLOGY.—In accordance as paragraphs (2) and (3), respectively; (10,000 acres); and with the last sentence of section 302(a)(3) of (B) by inserting ‘‘(1)’’ after ‘‘(e)’’; ‘‘(C) if the investment costs are fully reim- the Department of Energy Organization Act (C) in paragraph (2) (as redesignated by bursed without aid to irrigation from the (42 U.S.C. 7152(a)(3), section 1(e) shall not re- subparagraph (A))— Pick-Sloan Missouri Basin Program, the New sult in any reallocation of project costs and (i) in the first sentence— Rockford Canal service area (1,200 acres). shall not result in increased rates to Pick- (I) by striking ‘‘within ten years after ini- ‘‘(2) DEVELOPMENT NOT AUTHORIZED.—None Sloan Missouri Basin Program customers. tial unit operation to administer for recre- of the irrigation authorized by this section Nothing in the Dakota Water Resources Act H7292 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998

of 1998 alters or affects in any way the repay- water supply and release facility or such ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—After reviewing the final ment methodology in effect as of the date of other feature or features as are selected report required by subsection (b)(1) and com- enactment of that Act for other features of under subsection (d). plying with subsection (c), the Secretary, in the Pick-Sloan Missouri Basin Program.’’. ‘‘(2) DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION.—The fea- consultation and coordination with the SEC. 7. MUNICIPAL, RURAL, AND INDUSTRIAL ture shall be designed and constructed to State of North Dakota in coordination with WATER SERVICE. meet only the water delivery requirements affected local communities, shall select 1 or Section 7 of Public Law 89–108 (100 Stat. of the irrigation areas, municipal, rural, and more project features described in subsection 422) is amended— industrial water supply needs, ground water (a) that will meet the comprehensive water (1) in subsection (a)(3)— recharge, and streamflow augmentation (as quality and quantity needs of the Red River (A) in the second sentence— described in subsection (b)(2)) authorized by Valley. (i) by striking ‘‘The non-Federal share’’ this Act. ‘‘(2) AGREEMENTS.—Not later than 180 days and inserting ‘‘Unless otherwise provided in ‘‘(3) COMMENCEMENT OF CONSTRUCTION.—The after the record of decision has been exe- this Act, the non-Federal share’’; Secretary may not commence construction cuted, the Secretary shall enter into a coop- (ii) by striking ‘‘each water system’’ and on the feature until a master repayment con- erative agreement with the State of North inserting ‘‘water systems’’; tract or water service agreement consistent Dakota to construct the feature or features (iii) by inserting after the second sentence with this Act between the Secretary and the selected. the following: ‘‘The State may use the Fed- appropriate non-Federal entity has been exe- ‘‘(e) SHEYENNE RIVER WATER SUPPLY AND eral and non-Federal funds to provide grants cuted. RELEASE OR ALTERNATE FEATURES.—The Sec- or loans for municipal, rural, and industrial ‘‘(b) REPORT ON RED RIVER VALLEY WATER retary shall construct, operate, and main- water systems. The State shall use the pro- NEEDS AND DELIVERY OPTIONS.— tain a Sheyenne River water supply and re- ceeds of repaid loans for municipal, rural, ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Pursuant to section 1(g), lease feature (including a water treatment and industrial water systems.’’; and not later than 90 days after the date of en- plant) capable of delivering 100 cubic feet per (iv) by striking the last sentence and in- actment of the Dakota Water Resources Act second of water or any other amount deter- serting the following: ‘‘The Southwest Pipe- of 1998, the Secretary and the State of North mined in the reports under this section, for line Project, the Northwest Area Water Sup- Dakota shall jointly submit to Congress a re- the cities of Fargo and Grand Forks and sur- ply Project, the Red River Valley Water Sup- port on the comprehensive water quality and rounding communities, or such other feature ply Project, and other municipal, industrial, quantity needs of the Red River Valley and or features as may be selected under sub- and rural water systems in the State of the options for meeting those needs, includ- section (d).’’. North Dakota shall be eligible for funding ing the delivery of Missouri River water to SEC. 9. OAKES TEST AREA TITLE TRANSFER. under the terms of this section. Funding pro- the Red River Valley. Public Law 89–108 (100 Stat. 423) is amended vided under this section for the Red River ‘‘(2) NEEDS.—The needs addressed in the re- by striking section 9 and inserting the fol- Valley Water Supply Project shall be in ad- port shall include such needs as— lowing: dition to funding for that project under sec- ‘‘(A) augmenting streamflows; and ‘‘SEC. 9. OAKES TEST AREA TITLE TRANSFER. tion 10(a)(1)(B). The amount of non-Federal ‘‘(B) enhancing— ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 2 years contributions made after May 12, 1986, that ‘‘(i) municipal, rural, and industrial water after execution of a record of decision under exceeds the 25 percent requirement shall be supplies; section 8(d) on whether to use the New Rock- credited to the State for future use in munic- ‘‘(ii) water quality; ford Canal as a means of delivering water to ipal, rural, and industrial projects under this ‘‘(iii) aquatic environment; and the Red River Basin as described in section 8, section.’’; and ‘‘(iv) recreation. the Secretary shall enter into an agreement (2) by striking subsections (b), (c), and (d) ‘‘(3) STUDIES.—Existing and ongoing stud- with the State of North Dakota, or its des- and inserting the following: ies by the Bureau of Reclamation on Red ignee, to convey title and all or any rights, ‘‘(b) WATER CONSERVATION PROGRAM.—The River Water Supply needs and options shall interests, and obligations of the United State of North Dakota may use funds pro- be deemed to meet the requirements of this States in and to the Oakes Test Area as con- vided under subsections (a) and (b)(1)(A) of section. structed and operated under Public Law 99– 294 (100 Stat. 418) under such terms and con- section 10 to develop and implement a water ‘‘(c) ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATE- ditions as the Secretary believes would fully conservation program. The Secretary and MENTS.— protect the public interest. the State shall jointly establish water con- ‘‘(1) DRAFT.— servation goals to meet the purposes of the ‘‘(b) TERMS AND CONDITIONS.—The agree- ‘‘(A) DEADLINE.—Pursuant to an agreement ment shall define the terms and conditions State program and to improve the availabil- between the Secretary and the State of ity of water supplies to meet the purposes of of the transfer of the facilities, lands, min- North Dakota as authorized under section eral estate, easements, rights-of-way and this Act. If the State achieves the estab- 1(g), not later than 1 year after the date of water rights including the avoidance of costs lished water conservation goals, the non- enactment of the Dakota Water Resources that the Federal Government would other- Federal cost share for future projects under Act of 1998, the Secretary and the State of wise incur in the case of a failure to agree subsection (a)(3) shall be reduced to 24.5 per- North Dakota shall jointly prepare and com- under subsection (d). cent. plete a draft environmental impact state- ‘‘(c) COMPLIANCE.—The action of the Sec- ‘‘(c) NONREIMBURSABILITY OF COSTS.—With ment concerning all feasible options to meet retary under this section shall comply with respect to the Southwest Pipeline Project, the comprehensive water quality and quan- all applicable requirements of Federal, the Northwest Area Water Supply Project, tity needs of the Red River Valley and the State, and local law. the Red River Valley Water Supply Project, options for meeting those needs, including ‘‘(d) FAILURE TO AGREE.—If an agreement and other municipal, industrial, and rural possible alternatives for delivering Missouri is not reached within the time limit speci- water systems in North Dakota, the costs of River water to the Red River Valley. fied in subsection (a), the Secretary shall the features constructed on the Missouri ‘‘(B) REPORT ON STATUS.—If the Secretary dispose of the Oakes Test Area facilities River by the Secretary of the Army before and State of North Dakota cannot prepare under the Federal Property and Administra- the date of enactment of the Dakota Water and complete the draft environmental im- tive Services Act of 1949 (40 U.S.C. 471 et Resources Act of 1998 shall be nonreimburs- pact statement within 1 year after the date seq.).’’. able. of enactment of the Dakota Water Resources SEC. 10. AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS. ‘‘(d) INDIAN MUNICIPAL RURAL AND INDUS- Act of 1998, the Secretary, in consultation Section 10 of Public Law 89–108 (100 Stat. TRIAL WATER SUPPLY.—The Secretary shall and coordination with the State of North Da- 424; 106 Stat. 4669, 4739) construct, operate, and maintain such mu- kota, shall report to Congress on the status (1) in subsection (a)— nicipal, rural, and industrial water systems of this activity, including an estimate of the (A) by striking ‘‘(a)(1) There are author- as the Secretary determines to be necessary date of completion. ized’’ and inserting the following: to meet the economic, public health, and en- ‘‘(2) FINAL.— ‘‘(a) WATER DISTRIBUTION FEATURES.— vironmental needs of the Fort Berthold, ‘‘(A) DEADLINE.—Not later than 1 year ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.— Standing Rock, Turtle Mountain (including after filing the draft environmental impact ‘‘(A) MAIN STEM SUPPLY WORKS.—There is the Trenton Indian Service Area), and Fort statement, a final environmental impact authorized’’; Totten Indian Reservations and adjacent statement shall be prepared and published. (B) in paragraph (1)— areas.’’. ‘‘(B) REPORT ON STATUS.—If the Secretary (i) in the first sentence, by striking SEC. 8. SPECIFIC FEATURES. and State of North Dakota cannot prepare ‘‘$270,395,000 for carrying out the provisions (a) IN GENERAL.—Public Law 89–108 (100 and complete a final environmental impact of section 5(a) through 5(c) and section 8(a)(1) Stat. 423) is amended by striking section 8 statement within 1 year of the completion of of this Act’’ and inserting ‘‘$164,000,000 to and inserting the following: the draft environmental impact statement, carry out section 5(a)’’; ‘‘SEC. 8. SPECIFIC FEATURES. the Secretary, in consultation and coordina- (ii) by inserting after subparagraph (A) (as ‘‘(a) RED RIVER VALLEY WATER SUPPLY tion with the State of North Dakota, shall designated by clause (i)) the following: PROJECT.— report to Congress on the status of this ac- ‘‘(B) RED RIVER VALLEY WATER SUPPLY ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall con- tivity, including an estimate of the date of PROJECT.—There is authorized to be appro- struct a feature or features to deliver Mis- completion. priated to carry out section 8(a)(1) souri River water to the Sheyenne River ‘‘(d) PROCESS FOR SELECTION.— $200,000,000.’’; and August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H7293 (iii) by striking ‘‘Such sums’’ and inserting (including the mitigation and enhancement (C) in paragraph (1), by inserting ‘‘, grass- the following: features). land conservation and riparian areas’’ after ‘‘(C) AVAILABILITY.—Such sums’’; and ‘‘(B) AUTHORIZATION LIMITS.—Expenditures ‘‘habitat’’; and (C) in paragraph (2)— for operation and maintenance of features (D) in paragraph (2), by adding at the end (i) by striking ‘‘(2) There is’’ and inserting substantially completed and features con- the following: the following: structed before the date of enactment of the ‘‘(C) The power to fund incentives for con- ‘‘(2) INDIAN IRRIGATION.— Dakota Water Resources Act of 1998, includ- servation practices by landowners.’’. ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—There is’’; ing funds expended for such purposes since H.R. 3892 (ii) by striking ‘‘$7,910,000 for carrying out the date of enactment of Public Law 99–294, OFFERED BY: MR. RIGGS section 5(e) of this Act’’ and inserting shall not be counted against the authoriza- ‘‘$7,910,000 to carry out section 5(c)’’; and AMENDMENT NO. 7: Page 13, after line 18, in- tion limits in this section. sert the following: (iii) by striking ‘‘Such sums’’ and inserting ITIGATION AND ENHANCEMENT LAND.— ‘‘(5) M ‘‘(E) Developing tutoring programs for the following: On or about the date on which the features English language learners that provide early ‘‘(B) AVAILABILITY.—Such sums’’; authorized by section 8(a) are operational, a intervention and intensive instruction in (2) in subsection (b)— separate account in the Natural Resources order to improve academic achievement, to (A) by striking ‘‘(b)(1) There is’’ and insert- Trust authorized by section 11 shall be estab- increase graduation rates among English ing the following: lished for operation and maintenance of the language learners, and to prepare students ‘‘(b) MUNICIPAL, RURAL, AND INDUSTRIAL mitigation and enhancement land associated for transition as soon as possible into class- WATER SUPPLY.— with the unit.’’; and rooms where instruction is not tailored for ‘‘(1) STATEWIDE.— (4) by striking subsection (e) and inserting English language learners or immigrant chil- ‘‘(A) INITIAL AMOUNT.—There is’’; the following: (B) in paragraph (1)— dren and youth. (i) by inserting before ‘‘Such sums’’ the fol- ‘‘(e) INDEXING.—The $300,000,000 amount Page 13, line 19, strike ‘‘(E)’’ and insert lowing: under subsection (b)(1)(B), the $200,000,000 ‘‘(F)’’. amount under subsection (a)(1)(B), and the ‘‘(B) ADDITIONAL AMOUNT.—In addition to H.R. 3892 funds authorized under subsection (b)(2) shall the amount under subparagraph (A), there is OFFERED BY: MR. RIGGS authorized to be appropriated to carry out be indexed as necessary to allow for ordinary fluctuations of construction costs incurred AMENDMENT NO. 8: Page 17, line 17, strike section 7(a) $300,000,000.’’; and ‘‘and’’ after the date of enactment of the Dakota (ii) by striking ‘‘Such sums’’ and inserting Page 17, line 19, strike the period at the Water Resources Act of 1998 as indicated by the following: end and insert ‘‘; and’’. ‘‘(C) AVAILABILITY.—Such sums’’; and engineering cost indices applicable for the Page 17, after line 19, insert the following: (C) in paragraph (2)— type of construction involved. All other au- ‘‘(C) the number and percentage of stu- (i) by striking ‘‘(2) There are authorized to thorized cost ceilings shall remain un- dents in the programs and activities master- be appropriated $61,000,000’’ and all that fol- changed. ing the English language by the end of each lows through ‘‘Act.’’ and inserting the fol- ‘‘(f) FOUR BEARS BRIDGE.—There is author- school year. lowing: ized to be appropriated, for demolition of the Page 19, after line 2, insert the following: ‘‘(2) INDIAN MUNICIPAL, RURAL, AND INDUS- existing structure and construction of the ‘‘(4) EVALUATION MEASURES.—In prescribing TRIAL AND OTHER DELIVERY FEATURES.— Four Bears Bridge across Lake Sakakawea the form of an evaluation provided by an en- ‘‘(A) INITIAL AMOUNT.—There is authorized within the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation, tity under paragraph (1), a State shall ap- to be appropriated— $40,000,000.’’. prove evaluation measures for use under ‘‘(i) to carry out section 8(a)(5), $40,500,000; SEC. 11. NATURAL RESOURCES TRUST. paragraph (3) that are designed to assess— and ‘‘(A) oral language proficiency in kinder- ‘‘(ii) to carry out section 7(d), $20,500,000.’’; Section 11 of Public Law 89–108 (100 Stat. garten; (ii) by inserting before ‘‘Such sums’’ the 424) is amended— ‘‘(B) oral language proficiency, including following: (1) by striking subsection (a) and inserting speaking and listening skills, in first grade; ‘‘(B) ADDITIONAL AMOUNT.— the following: and ‘‘(i) IN GENERAL.—In addition to the ‘‘(a) CONTRIBUTION.— ‘‘(C) both oral language proficiency, in- amount under subparagraph (A), there is au- ‘‘(1) INITIAL AUTHORIZATION.— cluding speaking and listening skills, and thorized to be appropriated to carry out sec- ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—From the sums appro- reading and writing proficiency in grades tion 7(d) $200,000,000. priated under section 10 for the Garrison Di- two and higher. ‘‘(ii) ALLOCATION.—The amount under version Unit, the Secretary shall make an H.R. 3892 clause (i) shall be allocated as follows: annual Federal contribution to a Natural Re- OFFERED BY: MR. RIGGS ‘‘(I) $30,000,000 to the Fort Totten Indian sources Trust established by non-Federal in- AMENDMENT NO. 9: Page 19, line 5, strike Reservation. terests in accordance with subsection (b) and operated in accordance with subsection (c). ‘‘(b) and (c),’’ and insert ‘‘(b), (c), and (d),’’. ‘‘(II) $70,000,000 to the Fort Berthold Indian Page 20, after line 13, insert the following: ‘‘(B) AMOUNT.—The total amount of Fed- Reservation. ‘‘(d) MINIMUM ALLOTMENT.— eral contributions under subparagraph (A) ‘‘(IV) $80,000,000 to the Standing Rock In- ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding sub- dian Reservation. shall not exceed $12,000,000. sections (a) through (c), the Secretary shall DDITIONAL AUTHORIZATION.— ‘‘(V) $20,000,000 to the Turtle Mountain In- ‘‘(2) A not allot to any State, for fiscal years 1999 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—In addition to the dian Reservation.’’; and through 2003, an amount that is less than 100 amount authorized in paragraph (1), the Sec- (ii) by striking ’’Such sums’’ and inserting percent of the baseline amount for the State. retary shall make annual Federal contribu- the following: ‘‘(2) BASELINE AMOUNT DEFINED.—For pur- ‘‘(C) AVAILABILITY.—Such sums’’; tions to the Natural Resources Trust until poses of this subsection, the term ‘baseline (3) in subsection (c)— the amount authorized by section 10(c)(2)(B) amount’, when used with respect to a State, (A) by striking ‘‘(c) There is’’ and inserting is reached, in the manner stated in subpara- means the total amount received under parts the following: graph (B). A and C of this title for fiscal year 1998 by NNUAL AMOUNT.—The amount of the ‘‘(c) RESOURCES TRUST AND OTHER PROVI- ‘‘(B) A the State, the State educational agency, and SIONS.— contribution under subparagraph (A) for all local educational agencies of the State. ‘‘(1) INITIAL AMOUNT.—There is’’; and each fiscal year shall be the amount that is ‘‘(3) RATABLE REDUCTION.—If the amount (B) by striking the second and third sen- equal to 5 percent of the total amount that available for allotment under this section for tences and inserting the following: is appropriated for the fiscal year under sub- any fiscal year is insufficient to permit the ‘‘(2) ADDITIONAL AMOUNT.—In addition to sections (a)(1)(B) and (b)(1)(B) of section 10. Secretary to comply with paragraph (1), the amount under paragraph (1), there are au- IMITATION ON AVAILABILITY OF ‘‘(C) L Secretary shall ratably reduce the allot- thorized to be appropriated— FUNDS.—Of the amount authorized by section ments to all States for such year. ‘‘(A) $6,500,000 to carry out recreational 10(c)(2)(B), not more than $10,000,000 shall be Page 20, line 14, strike ‘‘(d)’’ and insert projects; and made available until the date on which the ‘‘(e)’’. ‘‘(B) an additional $25,000,000 to carry out features authorized by section 8(a) are oper- Page 20, line 24, strike ‘‘(e)’’ and insert section 11; ational and meet the objectives of section ‘‘(f)’’. to remain available until expended. 8(a), as determined by the Secretary and the H.R. 3892 ‘‘(3) RECREATIONAL PROJECTS.—Of the funds State of North Dakota.’’; OFFERED BY: MR. SCOTT authorized under paragraph (2) for rec- (2) in subsection (b), by striking ‘‘Wetlands reational projects, up to $1,500,000 may be Trust’’ and inserting ‘‘Natural Resources AMENDMENT NO. 10: Beginning on page 29, used to fund a wetland interpretive center in Trust’’; and strike line 3 through page 30, line 10. Page 30, line 11, strike ‘‘ ’’ and insert the State of North Dakota. (3) in subsection (c)— 7406. ‘‘7404.’’. ‘‘(4) OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE.— (A) by striking ‘‘Wetland Trust’’ and in- ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.— There are authorized to serting ‘‘Natural Resources Trust’’; H.R. 3892 be appropriated such sums as are necessary (B) by striking ‘‘are met’’ and inserting ‘‘is OFFERED BY: MR. YOUNG OF ALASKA for operation and maintenance of the unit met’’; AMENDMENT NO. 11: Page 25, strike line 9. H7294 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE August 5, 1998 Page 25, line 13, strike ‘‘and’’ and insert H.R. 4380 H.R. 4380 ‘‘or’’. OFFERED BY: MS. NORTON OFFERED BY: MS. NORTON Page 25, after line 13, insert the following: AMENDMENT NO. 1: Page 8, line 22, insert ‘‘(iii) is a Native American or Alaska Na- ‘‘(increased by $573,000)’’ after ‘‘$164,144,000’’. AMENDMENT NO. 3: Page 57, strike line 20 tive or who is a native resident of the outly- Page 8, line 23, insert ‘‘(increased by and all that follows through page 58, line 2 $573,000)’’ after ‘‘$136,485,000’’. (and redesignate the succeeding provisions ing areas and comes from an environment Page 9, line 4, insert after ‘‘purposes:’’ the accordingly). where a language other than English has had following: ‘‘Provided further, That $573,000 of a significant impact on such individual’s such amount shall be for Advisory Neighbor- H.R. 4380 level of English language proficiency, except hood Commissions established pursuant to that, for purposes of subsections (a) and (d) section 738 of the District of Columbia Home OFFERED BY: MS. NORTON of section 7124, an individual described in Rule Act’’. AMENDMENT NO. 4: Page 58, strike lines 3 section 7112(a), who is served by a person H.R. 4380 through 5 (and redesignate the succeeding considered to be a local educational agency OFFERED BY: MS. NORTON under such section, shall not be considered provision accordingly). AMENDMENT NO. 2: Page 42, line 3, strike an English language learner; and ‘‘funds’’ and insert ‘‘Federal funds’’. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks E1547 EXTENSIONS OF REMARKS

CIVIL SERVICE LONG-TERM CARE Mr. Speaker, I rise in this chamber to cele- rection toward protecting our environment and INSURANCE BENEFIT ACT brate and encourage the aspirations of the fi- our health. nalists from the District of Columbia, Nia Hep- Tariffs are generally imposed to protect HON. JOHN L. MICA burn-Nelson and Mark Parker. American companies from an unfair disadvan- OF FLORIDA Nia is a seventh grade student attending tage from foreign competitors. When a tariff IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Jefferson Junior High School who aspires to becomes a hindrance to American competi- Wednesday, August 5, 1998 be a computer programmer. Nia and her fam- tiveness, it needs to be reconsidered. In this ily reside in Northeast Washington, DC. Mark case, maintaining tariffs results in substantial Mr. MICA. Mr. Speaker, most people believe is in the seventh grade at Stuart Hobson Mid- costs to U.S. businesses. Removing these tar- that they are covered for long-term care by dle School. He has an avid interest in inter- iffs will better enable U.S. businesses to com- their health care plans, disability insurance, or national relations and would like to serve his pete, and maintain stable employment and by Medicare. Unfortunately, many learn the country as the Secretary of Defense. production levels. hard wayÐwhen they or a family member f I urge my colleagues to support this meas- needs careÐthat they are not adequately cov- ure. ered and must pay for long-term care on their CLINTON, MA, NAMED OFFICIAL own. By 2030, the average annual cost of a MILLENNIUM TOWN, USA f nursing home stay will increased from $40,000 today to more than $97,000 (in 1997 dollars). HON. JAMES P. McGOVERN ON THE RETIREMENT OF DR. Long-term care insurance provides protec- KELVIN KESLER OF MASSACHUSETTS tion from these catastrophic financial risks and IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES reduces reliance on Medicaid. HON. BOB SCHAFFER As one of the Nation's largest employers it Wednesday, August 5, 1998 OF COLORADO is appropriate that the Federal Government Mr. McGOVERN. Mr. Speaker, it is my privi- IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES offer long-term care insurance as a benefit to lege to announce the designation of the Town Federal employees. An amazing 86% of Fed- of Clinton, MA as the official Millennium Town, Wednesday, August 5, 1998 eral employees have expressed interest in USA. Mr. SCHAFFER of Colorado. Mr. Speaker, I long-term care insurance in response to sur- They will be celebrating their 150th anniver- rise today to honor the extraordinary contribu- vey questionnaires. sary in the year 2000 and will truly become a tions of a good friend, Dr. Kelvin Kesler, upon Today I will introduce the ``Civil Service genuine millennium town. Clinton, MA has al- his retirement after nearly 30 years of provid- Long-Term Care Insurance Benefit Act'' that ready had the accomplishments of a millen- ing outstanding medical care to the families of establishes a program through which Federal nium town by copyrighting several historic Fort Collins, Colorado. In 1970, Dr. Kesler employees and annuitants may obtain group souvenirsÐthe world's first Millennium 2000 opened the Fort Collins Women's Clinic, a fa- or individual long-term care insurance for dollar bill, an official Millennium sealÐY2K, cility offering the very best in obstetrical and themselves, their spouses, and any other eligi- the millennium 2000 toasting mug, and the of- gynecological medicine. Under his profes- ble relative. This benefit option would be avail- ficial millennium cookie. These products are sional care, this small practice grew dramati- able by January, 2000. the work of local resident Richard L. Harding. cally and now has 15 care providers, 65 em- This bill will make long-term care insurance I applaud the town of Clinton, MA for all of ployees, and a laboratory occupying a two affordable to the Federal community through their hard work and accomplishments they story complex. competition and choice. have had which has given them the right to The medical advances Dr. Kesler helped f earn the title of Millennium Town, USA. pioneer, as well as keeping up with the latest NATIONAL CAMPAIGN TO STOP VI- f medical breakthroughs in his field, are a testa- OLENCE—DO THE WRITE THING ment to his remarkable scholarship and pro- MISCELLANEOUS TRADE AND CHALLENGE PROGRAM fessionalism. Performing outpatient surgery in TECHNICAL CORRECTIONS ACT a state-of-the-art facility is a far cry from the HON. ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON OF 1998 days of home visits in the early 1970's. Through it all, Dr. Kesler succeeded and re- OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SPEECH OF mained true to himself. Now delivering the IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES HON. ROBERT A. WEYGAND children of children he once delivered, Dr. Wednesday, August 5, 1998 OF RHODE ISLAND Kesler has enjoyed, in his own words, ``a very Ms. NORTON. Mr. Speaker, five years ago IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES rewarding career.'' While almost everything in the District of Columbia, the Do the Write else has changed, Dr. Kesler's compassion Thing Challenge Program was established. Tuesday, August 4, 1998 and personal touch have not. The program was started by the Kuwait Amer- Mr. WEYGAND. Madam Speaker, I speak in What makes Dr. Kesler truly remarkable is ican Foundation as a way for private Kuwaiti support of H.R. 4342. H.R. 4342 includes the that he has always been committed to serving citizens to give thanks for America's support text of several pieces of legislation that I intro- his family, community, and country. He was during the Gulf War. The program attracted duced. I also wanted to thank Chairman the first married U.S. physician sent to Viet- the interest of a variety of groups who formed CRANE, the rest of the Ways and Means Com- nam. After serving in Vietnam and Japan from a coalition that created the National Campaign mittee, the Subcommittee on Trade and their 1961±1963, he continued in the service of his to Stop Violence. respective staffs for working with me on these country in the OB/GYN Department of the Young people in the seventh and eighth bills. Naval Hospital at Camp Pendleton, CA, until grades were asked to write an essay, poem or The bills I introduced granted a duty sus- 1969. Returning to Colorado, he quickly be- song that responded to the question, ``What pension on several products used in the coat- came a valued member of the University of can I do to stop violence?'' This spring, the ings and plastics industry. These products are Colorado's School of Medicine OB/GYN De- writings were reviewed by community leaders organic replacements for colorants that use partment. In addition, during this same period and 60 finalists were selected from 22 states. heavy metals, such as lead, molybdenum, he was heavily involved with Poudre Valley A leather bound book of their essays was pre- chrome, and cadmium. We have all heard Hospital in Fort Collins, CO. During all of this sented to General Scott at the Library of Con- about the environmental and health con- activity, he still managed to start the Fort Col- gress, and the young people enjoyed a recep- sequences associated with using heavy met- lins Women's Clinic. A true leader in his pro- tion, in their honor, in the Cannon Caucus als, especially lead. Using organic materials in fession, Dr. Kesler served with distinction as Room. place of heavy metals is a step in the right di- the president of the Colorado Obstetric and

∑ This ‘‘bullet’’ symbol identifies statements or insertions which are not spoken by a Member of the Senate on the floor. Matter set in this typeface indicates words inserted or appended, rather than spoken, by a Member of the House on the floor. E1548 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks August 5, 1998 gynecology Society. In addition, he was I applaud FAA Administrator Jane Garvey THE MUSIC MAKERS named the University of Colorado School of for paying immediate attention to this matter Medicine's 1996 Alumnae of the Year. and for taking steps to eliminate sexual har- HON. NANCY L. JOHNSON More than all the accolades and accom- assment from the FAA. In addition to her OF CONNECTICUT plishments, Dr. Kesler prides himself most on ``Zero Tolerance'' policy, Administrator Garvey IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES his family. His wife, JoAnn, and his children, has created an accountability board that will Wednesday, August 5, 1998 Thomas, Jeffrey, and Kelley, he says continue review all allegations, regardless of origin, and Mrs. JOHNSON of Connecticut. Mr. Speak- to be his greatest source of encouragement take timely, consistent and appropriate action. and satisfaction. Mr. Speaker, I am honored to er, two hundred years ago, in May of 1798, pay tribute to this generous, talented, and out- The Administrators efforts, combined with the United Irishmen, whose ranks were made standing man who has given so much to his the funds authorized here today, will go a long up of both Catholics and Protestants, rebelled family, his many friends, the community in way towards dealing with the issue of sexual against the English Crown. In May of this which he lives and the Nation. harassment and how the complaints are ulti- year, as word reached our shores of resound- f mately dealt with. But this is not enough. We ing voter approval of a landmark peace agree- must now work to change the culture within ment intended to end 30 years of Catholic- AIRPORT IMPROVEMENT PRO- the FAA, and hold those persons who are Protestant bloodshed, our former colleague, GRAM REAUTHORIZATION ACT guilty of sexual harassment accountable. Senator George Mitchell, who helped mediate OF 1998 the agreement, shared a stage at the Univer- I'd like to thank Chairman DUNCAN and sity of New Hampshire Commencement with a SPEECH OF Ranking Member LIPINSKI for their leadership, remarkable author, poet, actor, singer, story- HON. JUANITA MILLENDER-McDONALD and for working with me to include this lan- teller and songwriter, Tommy Makem. On that guage in this important bill. I urge my col- OF CALIFORNIA sunny, breezy afternoon, each received an leagues to support this measure. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES honorary degree. Tuesday, August 4, 1998 Senator Mitchell, as was fitting, gave the f commencement address; Tommy Makem, ap- Ms. MILLENDER-McDONALD. Mr. Speaker, propriately enough, sang a song he had writ- today, I rise in support in H.R. 4057, the Air- MOUNT OLIVE BAPTIST CHURCH ten about the search for peace in Ireland. port Improvement Program Reauthorization CELEBRATES 125 YEARS ``Raise the cry for peace and justice; let the Act of 1998. This bill contains several impor- people sound the call: justice for our battered tant provisions critical to ensuring the effi- country, peace for one and peace for all.'' So ciency and safety of our Nation's air traffic HON. ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON many of Tommy's songs, such as ``Gentle system, such as ``whistle blower'' protection OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA Annie'' and ``Four Green Fields'' are so well and making runway incursion devices eligible known that they are often mistaken for tradi- for AIP funding. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES tional folk songs and are standards in the rep- This bill also authorizes funding critical to Wednesday, August 5, 1998 ertoire of floksingers around the world. the resolution of an enormous back-log of A native of Keady, County Armagh, Tommy equal employment opportunity complaints filed Ms. NORTON. Mr. Speaker, I rise to cele- is the son of the legendary folk singer, Sarah with the FAA and the Department of Transpor- brate the rich history of the Mount Olive Bap- Makem. He came to Dover, New Hampshire in tation. As most of you know, this current back- tist Church on the 125th anniversary of its 1956, and established himself as an actor in log is one of the reasons that more than 200 founding. New York. There he teamed up with the women have filed a class action lawsuit alleg- Clancy Brothers: Liam, Tom and Paddy. In the ing sexual harassment against the Federal Mr. Speaker, on August 17, 1873, the early 1960s, following an appearance on the Aviation Administration. Mount Olive Baptist Church was organized in Ed Sullivan Show and a number of sold-out Last year, I read with great interest and dis- the home of Brother Robert Terrell and Sister concerts at Carnegie Hall, the Clancy Brothers may an article printed in the Friday, July 18, Martha Terrell by a group out of the Second and Tommy Makem were perhaps the best 1997 edition of USA Today. The story high- Baptist Church in NW, D.C. who accepted the known Irishmen in all the world. At the New- lighted allegations of sexual harassment and challenge to establish a church to meet the port Folk Festival, in 1961, he and Joan Baez sex discrimination among female air traffic spiritual needs of families residing in the Near were chosen as the two most promising new- controllers at John Wayne Airport in Orange Northeast Community. comers on the American folk scene. County, California and at FAA regulated facili- From these humble beginnings, the church In 1984, Tommy joined the ranks of millions ties across the country. became extensively involved in the commu- of Irish immigrants who came before him and On July 23, I wrote to Chairman DUNCAN nity. The ministerial staff, in conjunction with was naturalized as a U.S. citizen in Concord, and Ranking Member LIPINSKI urging them to New Hampshire. He has received countless the Near Northeast Group Ministers Associa- hold a hearing to further investigate these alle- awards, among them the Gold Medal from the tion participated, with John Hechinger, in the gations. The leadership of the subcommittee Eire Society in Boston and Stonehill College's development of Hechinger Mall, the Pentacle honored my request and held a hearing on prestigious Genesis Award. Irish America Thursday, October 23, 1997. Apartments and Benning Court Apartments, Magazine named him one of the Top 100 Irish On the job sexual harassment is a perva- and initiated a Meals on Wheels Program for Americans five years in a row. He was award- sive and insidious problem. It is made worse the sick and shut-in. In 1975, the Near North- ed the first Lifetime Achievement Award in the when the alleged perpetrators of this heinous east Community Enrichment Program which Irish Voice/Aer Lingus Community Awards. activity put the lives of hundreds of innocent provides social services, employment, and While there is no mention of it in his bio- men, women, and children at risk by harassing after school and summer enrichment programs graphical sketch, I am personally aware of his female air traffic controllers while they are di- was implemented. The ``Feed My Sheep'' min- support for ``Project Children,'' a non-profit or- recting flights as high as 36,000 feet or giving istry was instituted to provide a nutritious ganization that brings children from Northern others instruction for landing or guiding aircraft breakfast to children each Sunday morning Ireland to the United States for a summer holi- on the ground to the appropriate gates or run- before Sunday School. An outside community day away from the Irish ``troubles,'' recruiting ways. day, ``Taking Jesus to the Streets'' conducting them from neighborhoods in which Protestant- We must ensure that our nation's air traffic by the Youth Ministry has evolved into ``Love Catholic conflicts have taken the heaviest toll. control towers are the safest in the world, free and Unity Day.'' As of 1996, more than 11,000 youngsters from of discrimination and harassment of any kind. Mr. Speaker, with the opening of the Mount Belfast, Armagh, Strabane, Enniskillen, and These activities lower the morale of the em- Olive Baptist Church Learning Center, the Derry can be counted as ``alumni'' of the ployees who are victims of discrimination and church continues to grow and serve the needs project. their colleagues who witness it. U.S. Dept. of History records that the rebellion of 1798 of the near northeast community. Labor estimates that American business loses failed in the month of August. Let us pray that $1 billion in absenteeism, new employee train- Mr. Speaker, I ask the Members in this hal- peace will take hold in August of 1998 and ing and replacement costs, and low morale as lowed chamber to join me in saluting the offi- that in the coming years the children of North- a result of sexual harassment. (This figure cers, members and friends of the Mount Olive ern Ireland will visit the United States as part does not include judgments and civil court Baptist Church, a beacon of light and a safe of a cultural exchange, rather than for a res- cases.) haven in the near northeast community. pite from sectarian violence. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks E1549 Tommy's ``Peace and Justice'' expresses dent, and then terminate it without cause after Kenneth's achievements, although I'm sure the hope that ``understanding and forgiveness his or her freshman year. they are also glad to have a little more time will dry all our country's tears''Ðsomething to Similar efforts to eliminate ATP failed last with Dad now that he has retired. be wished for on both sides of the Atlantic. year by votes of 163 to 261 and 177 to 235. Mr. Speaker, if we look for examples of vol- The 19th century poet Arthur And this House earlier today rejected an unteerism to serve as a model for what we O'Shaughnessy wrote of the world's musi- amendment to reduce this year's funding. Fur- need more of as a nation, we need look no cians: ther, both the House and Senate have passed further than Kenneth D. Allen, Senior, of Dub- We are the music makers, legislation to specifically authorize the pro- lin, Georgia. And we are the dreamer of dreams, gram. f Wandering by lone sea-breakers, ATP has an important role in bringing com- And sitting by desolate streams; panies together, in cooperation with the Fed- DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, World-losers and world-forsakers, eral Government, to bridge the gap between JUSTICE, AND STATE, AND JUDI- On whom the pale moon gleams: research that creates precompetitive tech- CIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES Yet we are the movers and shakers nologies and the commercialization of those APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1999 Of the world forever, it seems. technologies. With wonderful deathless ditties To date, ATP grants have helped to develop SPEECH OF We build up the world's great cities, medical equipment that will assist in the fight And out of a fabulous story HON. ESTEBAN EDWARD TORRES We fashion an empire's glory against cancer and AIDS, increase the capac- OF CALIFORNIA One man with a dream, at pleasure, ity of fiber optic cables, improve light-emitting IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Shall go forth and conquer a crown; diode (LED) displays, and create a method for And three with a new song's measure combining textile weaving technology with Tuesday, August 4, 1998 Can trample an empire down. human tissue growth to form biodegradable The House in Committee of the Whole We in the ages lying, medical implants. House on the State of the Union had under In the buried past of the earth, Mr. Chairman, eliminating all ATP funding in consideration the bill (H.R. 4276) making ap- Built Ninevah with our sighing, H.R. 4276 is a bad idea. It will force NIST to propriations for the Departments of Com- And Babel itself with our mirth; back-out of commitment it has made to exist- merce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and And o'erthrew them with prophesying ing ATP grant recipients and it will end a pro- related agencies for the fiscal year ending To the old of the new world's worth; gram that has shown promise. September 30, 1999, and for other purposes: For each age is a dream that is dying, I urge all my colleagues to vote ``no'' on the Mr. TORRES. Mr. Chairman, I rise in sup- Or one that is coming to birth. Royce amendment. port of the amendment by Congresswoman Mr. Speaker, I sometimes wonder whether f JACKSON-LEE to increase funding for the Com- our society fully appreciates the importance of munity Relations Service (CRS). our artists, poets and songwriters. Tommy TRIBUTE TO KENNETH ALLEN At a time when our Nation continues to see Makem's journey to our shore, his work for the damaging effects of racial tensions, gang peace and the music he has made famousÐ HON. CHARLIE NORWOOD violence, and hate crimes, the demand for including the folk songs of both North America OF GEORGIA skilled professionals trained in conflict medi- and the British IslesÐremind us that our na- IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ation has reached a new height. We must ac- tion has been enriched indeed by the men and Wednesday, August 5, 1998 knowledge the services this division of the De- women who have come here from other lands. partment of Justice has brought to mayors, f Mr. NORWOOD. Mr. Speaker, there has been a lot of talk and even legislation lately chiefs of police, school superintendents, and DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, concerning the encouragement of Americans concerned citizens of the community. In my JUSTICE, AND STATE, AND JUDI- to become volunteers in their communities. home city of Los Angeles, the Community Re- CIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES I would like to point out to my colleagues lations Service played a vital role in resolving APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1999 that millions of Americans have not waited for the week-long turmoil of the LA riots in the the Federal Government to call for volunteer- early 1990's. The recent events in Jasper, TX, SPEECH OF ism, they have been doing just that for dec- proved another opportunity to employ these HON. CONSTANCE A. MORELLA ades. And nowhere can be found a better ex- trained professionals to resolve conflict and ample than that of Kenneth Allen, of Dublin, prevent further tensions from rising. Without OF MARYLAND their interventions, the unresolved tensions of IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Georgia. Kenneth became a member of the Boy these conflicts will fester and could continue Tuesday, August 4, 1998 Scouts of Dublin in January 1976, as Assistant indefinitely, breeding further hate and violence. The House in Committee of the whole Scoutmaster of Troop 66. He served in that I believe all of my colleagues here can House on the State of the Union had under capacity until 1988, when he became head agree that our efforts to alleviate violence in consideration the bill (H.R. 4276) making ap- Scoutmaster. schools and communities is not something we propriations for the Departments of Com- For ten years, from 1988 until this year, should choose to ignore. This is not an exam- merce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and Kenneth faithfully served the young men of ple of a duplicated federally funded program. related agencies for the fiscal year ending Troop 66, producing 76 Eagle Scouts. Ken- This is the only Federal agency working to September 30, 1999, and for other purposes: neth earned the Silver Beaver Award in 1988; provide this type of assistance in times of Mrs. MORELLA. Mr. Chairman, I rise in op- the District Merit Award in 1991 and 1996; the need and attempt to prevent further outbreaks position to the Royce Amendment to zero Scoutmaster Award in 1986, 1989, 1990, and of violence and hate crimes. The demand for funding for the Advanced Technology Program 1994; the Troop Advancement Award in 1990 these services is growing and the Community (ATP). and 1997, and the Cliff Moye Award in 1988. Relations Service has proven itself successful Zeroing-out ATP would amount to the U.S. This year, Kenneth Allen finally retired from in what has been deemed the most efficient government turning its back on its obligations. active service with the Boy Scouts. In honor of and desirable approach to conflict resolution The problem is that ATP funds long-term his years of dedication, the Troop Advance- within the community; but at the current fund- (three to five year) research grants. The fund- ment Award has been renamed the Kenneth ing level they are unable to meet the demand ing for the remaining years of these multi-year D. Allen, Senior Advancement Award, and will for such services. The CRS was forced to de- grants is termed a ``mortgage.'' be awarded annually to a scout leader in the cline 40 percent of all the requests for assist- According to the Administration, ATP is like- Central Georgia Council of the Boy Scouts of ance that they received. ly to have mortgages totaling just over $120 America. We hear members on the other side of the million in FY 1999. While these mortgages are I'm proud to know Kenneth. He has proven aisle speaking of a more efficient government. not liabilities for the Federal Government, they himself as a credit to the Dublin community The CRS is an example of not only an effi- represent commitments made by the National and a positive role model for hundreds of cient agency, but one that is cost effective. Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) young men who have passed through Troop We can choose to help resolve conflict or we to these research projects. 66 over the 22 years he has given to that or- can pay the price of the crimes and convic- Zeroing-out ATP would break NIST's com- ganization. tions that will inevitably follow. I say we must mitments to its existing ATP partners. It would I know his wife Claudia, daughter Sharon, meet the need for this demand and fully fund be like giving a four-year scholarship to a stu- and son Kenneth, Junior are also proud of the CRS. E1550 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks August 5, 1998 Mr. Speaker, I urge my colleagues to vote er period of time. That means that payments While we believe this bill would create sav- in favor of the Jackson-Lee amendment. per patient for skilled therapies can be re- ings for Medicare without any additional pro- f duced in the ADC setting compared to the tections, to make sure that that is the case, home health setting. we have included a budget neutrality provision THE MEDICARE SUBSTITUTE The Medicare Substitute Adult Day Care in the bill. This provision would allow the Sec- ADULT DAY CARE SERVICE ACT Services Act would incorporate the adult day retary of Health and Human Services to care setting into the current Medicare home change the percentage of the payment rate for HON. FORTNEY PETE STARK health benefit. It would do so by allowing ADC services if growth in those services were OF CALIFORNIA beneficiaries to substitute some, or all, of their to be greater than current projections under IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Medicare home health services in the home the traditional home health program. for care in an adult day care center (ADC). Wednesday, August 5, 1998 This is a small step forward for rehabilitation To achieve cost-savings, the ADC would be therapy for seniors. Eligibility for the home Mr. STARK. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to paid a flat rate of 95% of the rate that would health benefit is not changed so it is not an rise with my colleagues Representatives have been paid for the service had it been de- expansion of the benefit. We believe that pa- CARDIN, KLECZKA, and LEWIS with whom I livered in the patient's home. The ADC would tients would greatly benefit from the option of serve on the Ways and Means Health Sub- be required, with that one payment, to provide an adult day care setting for the provision of committee, to introduce The Medicare Sub- a full day of care to the patient. That care home health services and look forward to stitute Adult Day Care Services Act. would include the home health benefit and working with our colleagues to enact this in- This bill would update the Medicare home transportation, meals and therapeutic activi- cremental, important Medicare improvement. health benefit to incorporate modern setting ties. f for rehabilitation. While the home had been It is especially important to note that this bill the only setting in which a homebound person is not an expansion of the home health bene- CREDIT CARD ON-TIME PAYMENT could reasonably be expected to receive ther- fit. It would not make any new people eligible PROTECTION ACT apy, that is no longer always the case. This for the Medicare home health benefit. Nor legislation would allow patients and their fami- would it expand the definition of what qualifies HON. JOHN J. LaFALCE for reimbursement by Medicare for home lies to choose the best setting for their individ- OF NEW YORK health services. ual needs. This new choice would be provided IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES at no additional cost to the Medicare program. In order to qualify for the ADC option, a pa- Adult day care centers (ADCs) are proving tient would still need to qualify for Medicare Wednesday, August 5, 1998 to be effectiveÐoften preferableÐalternatives home health benefits just like they do today. Mr. LaFALCE. Mr. Speaker, I am today in- to complete confinement in the home. Home- They would need to be homebound and they troducing the ``Credit Card On-Time Payment bound people can utilize these centers be- would need to have a certification from a doc- Protection Act'' to address the growing finan- cause they provide door-to-door services for tor for skilled therapy in the home. cial penalties imposed on credit card holders their patients. ADCs send special vehicles and All the bill would do is recognize that ADCs who pay their credit card bills in full each trained personnel to a patient's home and will can provide the same services, at lower costs, month. go so far as to get the patient out of bed and and include the benefits of social interaction, While most of the information we see on transport them to the ADC site in specially- activities, meals, and a therapeutic environ- credit cards and credit card debt is alarming, ment in which trained professionals can treat, equipped vehicles. Without this transportation one positive fact has received little attention. monitor and support Medicare beneficiaries component, homebound patients would be not This is the fact that over 40 percent of credit who would otherwise be at home without pro- able to utilize such a service. card holders routinely pay off their credit card fessional help. All of these things aid the reha- For certain patients, the ADC setting is far balances in full each month without incurring bilitation process of patients. preferable to traditional home health care. The In order to participate in the Medicare home finance charges or carrying credit balances. ADC can provide skilled therapy like the home care program, adult day care centers would This use of credit cards only for transactions health provider, but also provide therapeutic need to meet the same standards that are re- rather than credit has been relatively stable activities and meals for the patients. These quired of home health agencies. The only ex- over time. According to the Federal Reserve centers provide a social setting within a thera- ception to this rule is that the ADCs would not Bank of New York, 43 percent of households peutic environment to serve patients with a va- be required to be ``primarily'' involved in the with credit cards routinely paid off their card riety of needs. Thus, patients have the oppor- provision skilled nursing services and therapy balances in 1983, with 41 percent continuing tunity to interact with a broad array of people services. They would be required to provide to regularly pay off card balances in 1995. and to participate in organized group activities those services, but because ADCs provide At a time of escalating consumer debt, pay- that promote better physical and mental services to an array of patients, skilled nursing ing off of credit card debt should be encour- health. Rehabilitation can be enhanced in services and therapy services may not always aged. But the credit card companies have such a setting. be their primary activity. Otherwise, all the taken the opposite approach. Rather than en- It is also important to note that ADC care home health requirements would apply to couraging a reduction of debt they are impos- provides an added benefit to the caregivers for ADCs. ing penalties on card holders who pay off their frail seniors. When a Medicare beneficiary re- Here is an example of how the system card balances on time. Rather than encourag- ceives home health services in the home, would work if this bill were law. A patient is ing responsible use of credit cards and reduc- these providers are not in the home all day. prescribed home care by his or her doctor. At ing credit card delinquencies, they are creating They provide the service they are paid for and that time the patient and his or her family de- new disincentives to reduce credit card debt. then leave. Many frail seniors cannot be left cide how to arrange for the services. They Press articles began appearing two years alone for long periods of time and this restric- could choose to receive all services through ago describing how one credit card issuer, tion prevents their caregivers from being able the home, or could choose to substitute some then another, had begun imposing minimum fi- to maintain employment outside of the home. adult day care services. So, if the patient had nance charges or maintenance fees on the ac- If the senior were receiving ADC services, 3 physical therapy visits and 2 home health counts of card holders who regularly paid off they would receive supervised care for the aide visits, they could decide to take the home the card balances each month. Other card whole day and the primary care giver would health aide visits at home, but substitute three issuers began to reimpose annual fees on the be able to maintain a job and/or be able to days of ADC services for the physical therapy ``no fee'' accounts of card holders who paid in leave the home for longer periods of time. visits. On those days, the patient would be full. The theory behind this was, if consumers From a cost perspective, an ADC setting picked up from home, taken to the ADC, re- were going to have to pay a fee, they might can provide savings as well. In the home care ceive the physical therapy, and receive the ad- as well carry credit balances and pay interest arena, a skilled nurse, a physical therapist, or ditional benefits of the ADC setting (group charges. Our colleague JOE KENNEDY re- any home health provider must travel from therapy, meals, socialization, and transpor- sponded to this problem with a bill to prohibit home to home providing services to one pa- tation). All of these services would be incor- the imposition of a minimum finance change tient per site. There are significant transpor- porated into the payment rate of 95% of the or fee on a credit card account solely because tation costs and time costs associated with home setting rate for the physical therapy a card holder paid off any credit extended in that method of care. In an ADC, the patients service. It is a savings for Medicare and an full. are brought to the providers so that a provider improved benefit to the patientÐa winning so- Late last year the press reported that sev- can see a larger number of patients in a short- lution for everyone. eral large national retail company chains were August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks E1551 cancelling their co-branded credit cards for While I consider myself a strong supporter sumer in advance of any annual period to card holders who paid their monthly balances of legislation to modernize the banking indus- cover the cost of maintaining a credit card on time. This meant that their most respon- try, I cannot accept bank practices that impose account during such annual period without sible customers were suddenly deprived of the regard to whether any credit is actually ex- unnecessary and unproductive costs on con- tended under such account during such pe- use of their credit cards. More recently, our sumers. Imposing new charges and canceling riod; or colleague SID YATES brought to my attention a the accounts of consumers who pay their ‘‘(B) otherwise affecting this imposition of far more subtle, but equally effective, method credit card bills on time serves one purpose, the actual finance charge applicable with re- that some credit card companies are using to and one purpose onlyÐto increase the al- spect to any credit extended under such ac- exact fees payments from card holders who ready record levels of bank fee income. These count during such annual period at the an- pay on time. This involves manipulation of the practices have no other economic or policy nual percentage rate disclosed to the con- ``payment due'' date on the credit card state- purpose or rationale. sumer in accordance with this title for the ment to induce earlier payment of the monthly period of time any such credit is outstand- At a time of escalating consumer debt and ing.’’ payment amount than is necessary to avoid record levels of credit card delinquencies and SEC. 3. REGULATIONS. any finance charges, thus allowing the card personal bankruptcy, the banking industry issuer more time to hold and earn interest on The Federal Reserve Board, not later than should not engage in practices that discourage 6 months after the date of the enactment of the payment. responsible use of credit and reduction in Under the Truth in Lending Act, if a card this Act, shall issue final regulations to im- credit card debt. The practices I have outlined plement the amendments made by this Act. issuer provides a ``grace period'' during which are discriminatory, they are unfair to consum- f any credit charges can be repaid in full without ers and they are wrong. I urge Congress to incurring finance charges, it must be disclosed end these practices by adopting my legisla- PERSONAL EXPLANATION to the consumer in the initial card offering and tion. in the monthly billing statement. There is no The text of the bill follows: specific requirement, however, that the month- HON. FRANK RIGGS ly ``payment due'' date be the same as this H.R.— OF CALIFORNIA disclosed grace period, especially if no interest Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Rep- IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES charge is actually charged until the end of the resentatives of the United States in Congress as- Wednesday, August 5, 1998 stated grace period. This has permitted, for sembled, example, one Chicago area bank to decrease SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. Mr. RIGGS. Mr. Speaker, I was absent from the 25 day grace period it discloses in pro- This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Credit Card the House of Representatives on July 30 and motions and agreements with consumers to On-Time Payment Protection Act of 1998.’’ 31, 1998, pursuant to a leave of absence. SEC. 2. PENALTIES FOR ON-TIME PAYMENT PRO- During my absence, I missed a number of only 20 days in the payment due date it in- HIBITED. cludes in statements of card holders who rou- votes. Had I been present, the following is Section 127 of the Truth in Lending Act (15 how I would have voted: tinely pay off their monthly balances. This per- U.S.C. 1637) is amended by inserting at the mits the bank an extra ``float'' on these pay- end thereof the following new subsection: Rollcall No. 355: ``Yea''; Rollcall No. 356: ments of at least five days each month without ‘‘(h) PENALTIES FOR ON-TIME PAYMENT PRO- ``No''; Rollcall No. 357: ``Yea''; Rollcall No. the knowledge of the card holder. Court docu- HIBITED— 358: ``Yea''; Rollcall No. 359: ``Yea''; Rollcall ments estimated that this band has used this ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—In the case of any credit No. 360: ``Yea''; Rollcall No. 361: ``Yea''; Roll- tactic to induce card holders to advance nearly card account under an open-end consumer call No. 362: ``No''; Rollcall No. 363: ``No''; credit plan, no creditor may cancel an ac- Rollcall No. 364: ``No''; and Rollcall No. 365: $600 million each month five days before it is count, impose a minimum finance charge for actually necessary to avoid interest charges. ``Yea''. any period (including any annual period), Rollcall No. 366: ``Yea''; Rollcall No. 367: This manipulation of monthly payment due impose any fee in lieu of a minimum finance dates falsely induces card holders to transmit charge or impose any other charge or pen- ``Yea''; Rollcall No. 368: ``Yea''; Rollcall No. payments earlier than necessary every month, alty with regard to such account or credit 369: ``No''; Rollcall No. 370: ``Yea''; Rollcall depriving them of the use of their own money extended under such account solely on the No. 371: ``Yea''; Rollcall No. 372: ``Yea''; Roll- up to 60 days each year! And it allows card basis that any credit extended has been re- call No. 373: ``Yea''; Rollcall No. 374: ``Yea''; issuers to benefit from the additional float on paid in full before the end of any grace pe- Rollcall No. 375: ``No''; and Rollcall No. 376: millions of dollars each month. Given the huge riod applicable with respect to the extension ``Yea''. percentage of card holders who pay off their of credit. f ‘‘(2) PAYMENT DUE DATES.—For purposes of monthly bills, and the fact that large national paragraph (1), a creditor shall be deemed to DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, credit card issuers are beginning to use this have imposed a prohibited charge or penalty JUSTICE, AND STATE, AND JUDI- practice, this problem may affect millions of on an account under an open end consumer CIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES card holders across the United States with a credit plan if the creditor regularly trans- credit card volume of potentially tens of bil- mits to the obligor of such plan a statement APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1999 lions of dollars annually. for a billing cycle in which credit has been I am pleased to join with Representatives extended under such plan that includes a SPEECH OF KENNEDY and YATES in introducing legislation payment due date as required by subsection HON. JOHN W. OLVER that would eliminate these unfair and costly (b)(9) of this section— ‘‘(A) that is different from and in advance OF MASSACHUSETTS practices that discourage responsible credit of— IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES card use. The bill would make it a violation of ‘‘(i) the date by which payment must be Tuesday, August 4, 1998 the Truth in Lending Act for any credit card made for any credit extended under such issuer to cancel the credit card account, or im- credit plan to avoid incurring a finance The House in Committee of the Whole pose new fees, finance charges or other costs change that was disclosed to such obligor House on the State of the Union had under on any credit card account solely on the basis pursuant to subsection (c)(1)(A)(iii) of this consideration the bill (H.R. 4276) making ap- that the credit extended during billing periods section; propriations for the Departments of Com- is regularly repaid in full without incurring fi- ‘‘(ii) the actual date by which payment merce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and would otherwise have to be made to avoid in- nance charges. related agencies for the fiscal year ending curring a finance charge if calculated on the September 30, 1999, and for other purposes: The bill also would make it a prohibited fee same basis as the date by which or the period or charge for a card issuer to send card hold- within which any payment must be made to Mr. OLVER. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong ers billing statements with payment due dates avoid incurring a finance charge that was support of full funding for the Economic Devel- that are earlier than the date disclosed in pro- disclosed to such obligor pursuant to sub- opment Agency (EDA). motions and card agreements and have the section (c)(1)(A)(iii); and Despite the country's roaring economy, cit- effect of inducing the card holder to send pay- ‘‘(B) that has the purpose or effect of in- ies and towns in my rural district have suffered ments earlier than would otherwise be nec- ducing the obligor of such plan to transmit huge job losses over the last year, and the essary to avoid finance charges. Taken to- payment to the creditor earlier than what EDA has provided critical support to these gether, these charges would preserve the ac- otherwise would be required to avoid incur- economically distressed communities. ring a finance charge. counts of the most responsible credit card ‘‘(3) SCOPE OF APPLICATION.—Paragraph (1) The EDA has funded regional economic users and save consumers potentially millions shall not be construed as— planning to maximize job creation and devel- of dollars each year in unnecessary fee pay- ‘‘(A) prohibiting the imposition of any flat opment, provided capital for small businesses, ments. annual fee which may be imposed on the con- and funded utilities and road construction to E1552 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks August 5, 1998 create industrial parks in some of the poorest lence campaign in the city, while in Nashville, final report determining probable cause of the communities in my district. WKRN has raised more than $1.2 million for accident will be submitted to the NTSB Board Most recently the EDA has approved fund- local schools. In Albany, WTEN sponsors the later this year. ing to plan the renovation of the Colonial The- groundbreaking ``Children First'' campaign to I would like to remind my colleagues that ater in Pittsfield, MA. raise awareness of children's issues, while the Foreign Air Carrier Family Support Act The Colonial Theater recently received na- WTVO in Rockford, Illinois is leading the effort emerged from the Korean Air 801 crash. I in- tional accolades when the First Lady visited in that community to combat adult illiteracy. troduced this legislation a little more than a this historic theater during her save America's Here on Long Island, Adam and Peggy di- month after the accident, and it became law treasures tour. rect their seemingly boundless energy and en- within 3 months of its introduction. The swift- It is truly an American treasure. thusiasm towards the East End Hospice, Little ness of its passage and the strong bipartisan With the help of the EDA, a renovated Colo- Flower Children's Services and Southampton support demonstrated during its development nial Theater will serve as a catalyst to gen- Hospital. Adam and Peggy are also tireless in proves how important respect and understand- erate further economic growth and to revitalize support of causes that strike close to home. ing must be accorded to those affected by the downtown Pittsfield. When cancer took the life of their oldest devastating consequences of an airline crash. EDA programs have helped create new jobs daughter Susan, they joined the American The law, enacted at the beginning of the year, and economic growth not just in my district, Cancer Society's battle to defeat this dreaded requires foreign air carriers to implement a but throughout the country. disease. Peggy overcame serious heart prob- disaster family assistance plan should an acci- We should continue our solid support for lems several years ago and today, the Amer- dent involving their carrier take place on this successful agency that has proved to be ican Heart Association enjoys their avid sup- American soil. I am pleased to note that after one of the best hopes for economic renewal in port. They also support the Palm Beach Reha- the Foreign Air Carrier Family Support Act struggling communities. bilitation Center, which helped Adam through was enacted, about 95% of airline passengers f four hip replacement surgeries. are now covered by family emergency plans. Mr. Speaker, words can hardly express the A TRIBUTE TO ADAM AND PEGGY Korean Air 801's one-year anniversary deep debt of gratitude that we on Eastern should not only remind us of the grief and tur- YOUNG OF WESTHAMPTON Long Island owe to Adam and Peggy Young BEACH, LONG ISLAND moil of the crash, it should also serve as a re- for all they have done to serve our community minder of the stalwart courage and tremen- and improve the lives of our neighbors. I ask dous effort displayed by the survivors, family HON. MICHAEL P. FORBES my Congressional colleagues to join me, Fam- members and friends, and individuals who as- OF NEW YORK ily Counseling Services and all who have ben- sisted in the aftermath, whether they phys- IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES efited from their generosity in thanking Adam ically carried passengers to safety or provided Wednesday, August 5, 1998 and Peggy Young for all of their good work. interpretation services to families. May God bless them just as he has blessed The people of Guam have experienced an Mr. FORBES. Mr. Speaker, I rise today in all of us by sending two such wonderful guard- this historic chamber to share with my col- enormous loss; at the same time, we have ian angels. gained an even greater sense of compassion leagues the story of two very special people, f whose lifetime of selfless contributions to an for others. The Korean Air 801 crash has pro- array of worthy causes, from national charities IN COMMEMORATION OF THE ONE- vided us this valuable lesson, let us continue to local food drives, has improved the lives of YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THE KO- to practice it in remembrance of all those who countless individuals across this nation and at REAN AIR 801 CRASH perished one year ago. home on Long Island. I stand here today in f the People's House to talk about Adam and HON. ROBERT A. UNDERWOOD Peggy Young, from my hometown of OF GUAM INTRODUCING THE HERO ACT— Westhampton Beach, because their devotion IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES HOMEBOUND ELDERLY RELIEF to the well-being of their fellow man has in- OPPORTUNITY ACT spired so many Long Islanders and serves as Wednesday, August 5, 1998 a true example of human charity for all of our Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Speaker, tomorrow, countrymen. August 6, the people of Guam, the survivors HON. NICK J. RAHALL II This Saturday evening, I have the privilege and the family members of the ill-fated Korean OF WEST VIRGINIA of helping Family Counseling Service of Air 801 flight will commemorate the one year IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Westhampton BeachÐone of many bene- anniversary of this sorrowful day. The death of Wednesday, August 5, 1998 ficiaries of the Youngs' generous spiritÐhonor 228 men, women and children is not merely a Adam and Peggy with the 1998 ``Family of morbid statistic, these individuals were moth- Mr. RAHALL. Mr. Speaker, today I join with Man Humanitarian Award.'' No two people are ers, fathers, uncles, aunt, grandparents, my Colleague Representative VAN HILLEARY, more worthy of this special recognition. No or- daughters, sons and friends of hundreds of to introduce a new bill that has as its purpose ganization is more deserving of the Young's other individuals spread out across the globe, to resolve the unconscionable mess the BBA efforts than Family Counseling Services. from Guam to Seoul to California. made of home health benefits programs when Since 1971, Family Counseling Service has While many continue to feel the pain of this it passed the Balanced Budget Act of 1997. provided counseling and support services to tragic episode, others rely on the passage of As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, I have more than 90,000 adults and children. Led by time as part of their personal healing process. been involved in this effort since last Novem- Executive Director George Busler, Family One year ago, a Guam hillside was strewn ber when I introduced H.R. 2912, intended to Counseling's staff has helped families work with wreckage debris and bodies; today, a 24- restore the venipuncture home health benefit through such everyday issues as parent-child foot high obelisk stands tall, a memorial to the that the BBA terminated for all time. As of this relationships or the death of a loved one. lives lost on that fateful morning. date, 105 of my concerned colleagues from When families face much more traumatic ex- Today, I, along with the people of Guam, both sides of the aisle have joined me in sup- periences, like domestic violence or sexual express my condolences to victims' family porting the restoration of this life-giving home abuse, these dedicated counselors and psy- members, as well as my gratitude to the var- health benefit. chiatrists provided the support and skills they ious federal, military, government and civilian Mr. Speaker, the bad news is that the hast- need to survive and carry on. personnel who assisted in the search, rescue ily drawn, ill-considered attack on America's The same way Family Counseling Services and recovery mission. home health industry that took place last year heals the wounds of society's most basic Even as this memorial is completed a year during debate on a balanced budget has re- unitÐthe familyÐAdam and Peggy Young are after the crash, the investigation process is sulted in massive harmÐboth to home health committed to a grass roots brand of philan- still underway. I attended the National Trans- agencies and to the Medicare-enrolled, Medi- thropy. As the founder of Young Broadcasting, portation Safety Board (NTSB) March informa- care-eligible senior citizens who are vulner- with television stations in America's in Ameri- tional hearing conducted to gather more data able, frail and seriously disabled. This attack ca's major markets, Adam Young is a recog- about the Korean Air 801 accident. While the on home health agencies has driven 1,100 out nized pioneer in harnessing the power of tele- wreckage examination is complete, a draft of of 8,000 agencies nationwide out of business vision to benefit the community. In Los Ange- the factual report written by NTSB officials will and those who are still open are beginning to les, KCAL sponsors the largest child anti-vio- not be available until the end of September. A refuse to accept Medicare patients. August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks E1553 But the good news is that: Members of this LEGISLATION TO RAISE THE MAN- CARE, one of the world's largest international House from both sides of aisle with conserv- DATORY RETIREMENT AGE FOR relief and development organizations, has had ative to moderate to liberal leaningsÐare fi- U.S. CAPITOL POLICE OFFICERS in helping the world's poor. Many of CARE's nally beginning to band together to try and re- FROM 57 TO 60 programs are supported by private donations verse the trend to shut down the only special- and the U.S. Agency for International Develop- ists we have in this country who are trained to HON. JAMES A. TRAFICANT, JR. ment. Day-long walks for water forced families in provide care for our sickest and most vulner- OF OHIO IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Mozambique to set priorities for water use. able populationÐsenior citizens and others Drinking and cooking ranked ahead of wash- who are disabled and homebound. Wednesday, August 5, 1998 ing hands and taking baths. CARE worked I take great pride in having introduced H.R. Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Speaker, today I am with communities to identify health problems 4339 last weekÐa bill calling for a three-year introducing legislation to change the manda- related to water and sanitation needs. As a re- moratorium on the so-called temporary pay- tory retirement age for U.S. Capitol Police Offi- sult CARE's Community Water and Sanitation ment (interim) system that has caused home cers from 57 to 60. I urge all of my colleagues Project was designed to dig wells and install water pumps close to where people lived. Now health agencies to fail and patients to be left to support this legislation. As every Member of Congress know, the mothers and children can walk to the nearest totally without resources to keep them safe. Capitol Police is one of the most professional pump in minutes and health has improved be- The Interim Payment system (IPS) was only and dedicated law enforcement agencies in cause of the availability of clean water. supposed to remain in place until HCFA could the country. They perform a vital and impor- Six years ago, the region had 138 function- get the Prospective Payment System in place tant function. The force is blessed to have a ing water stations with more than 1,800 peo- in October of 1999. The horror is that HCFA large number of experienced and highly com- ple using each. Five years later, the region has advised Congress that due to cir- petent officers. Unfortunately, every year doz- had 372 water stations, each serving approxi- cumstances, including HCFA's problem with ens of officers are forced to leave the force mately 840 people. As of November 1997, 97 percent of the pumps installed were function- Y2K considerationsÐit can't meet the deadline because of the mandatory retirement rule. Many of these officers are in excellent phys- ing satisfactorily. next October. ical condition. More important, they possess a In Ecuador, CARE's SUBIR Project is work- If HCFA doesn't meet that deadline, Mr. wealth of experience and savvy that is difficult, ing with Chachi Indians living in and around Speaker, it doesn't matterÐthe BBA says that if not, impossible to replace. the Cotacachi-Cayapas Ecological Reserve when next October 1st rolls around it will auto- Raising the mandatory retirement age from and the Yasuni National Park. For years, the matically trigger a 15 percent reduction in all 57 to 60 will provide the Capitol Police with country's timber companies have harvested reimbursements to home health agencies. the flexibility to retain experienced, highly lumber from these protected areas, stripping competent and dedicated officers. It will en- the land of all vegetation, leaving behind unus- I deeply appreciate the bipartisan support hance and improve security by ensuring that able, depleted soil and harming wildlife habi- my bill, H.R. 4339 has received over the past the force experiences a slower rate of turn- tat. Further, the Chachi Indians have gained week, and I encourage those Members who over. Please keep in mind that should this leg- little or no income from the trees that populate haven't cosponsored it, to do so. islation become law, Capitol Police officers be- their land. CARE's work is helping preserve But because of a need to provide a solution tween the ages of 57 and 60 would still have the environment and increase the incomes of to the IPS problem while at the same time to meet the standard requirements to remain the indigenous people of the Reserve and Na- tional Park. They include working with the guaranteeing budget neutralityÐwe need not on the force, including proficiency on the Government of Ecuador to obtain land titles to only a moratoriumÐbut also a trigger of our shooting range. This legislation is a common sense measure 35,000 hectares for the Chachi, teaching sus- ownÐa trigger that works on behalf of home that will go a long way in improving and en- tainable forest management and negotiating health agenciesÐinstead of the built-in trigger hancing what is already one of the finest law fair lumber prices with the timber companies. that gets pulled next October making matters enforcement agencies in the world. Once The value organizations like CARE cannot much worse than they are today. again, I urge my colleagues to support this bill. be emphasized enough. Their efforts play an That is why we have introduced the HERO f integral role in development assistance world- bill todayÐthe Homebound Elderly Relief Op- wide. These programs show how public-pri- PERSONAL EXPLANATION vate partnerships between the U.S. Govern- portunity billÐto provide both a moratorium for ment, host country governments, private U.S. immediate reliefÐand a trigger mechanism for HON. JAMES L. OBERSTAR citizens and businesses can help others build future relief and stability among both agencies OF MINNESOTA a better future. and the patients they serve. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES f This is a bipartisan effort to get something Wednesday, August 5, 1998 TRIBUTE TO JOSEPH LUBRANO doneÐsomething positive and constructive to get home health agencies back on their feetÐ Mr. OBERSTAR. Mr. Speaker, on Monday, August 3, 1998, I was en route back to Wash- where they deserved to beÐand Medicare pa- HON. EDOLPHUS TOWNS ington with family members and missed three OF NEW YORK tients back into home care programs they rely roll call votes. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES upon for daily comfort, for physical and mental Had I been present, I would have voted Wednesday, August 5, 1998 stability, for the chance to remain at home ``nay'' on H.R. 3743 (Roll Call vote 377); I among loved ones while struggling with the in- would have voted ``aye'' on S. J. Res. 54 (Roll Mr. TOWNS. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to firmities of old age and disease. Call Vote 388), and I would have voted ``aye'' recognize Joseph Lubrano, the United States Postal Service (USPS) Brooklyn Postmaster. That what this joint effort is about todayÐ on the Shays/Meehan Campaign Finance Re- Joseph was promoted to the position of Brook- my colleague Representative VAN HILLEARY of form Substitute, as Amended (Roll Call Vote lyn Postmaster in December of 1997 from his Tennessee and IÐit is our rallying cry for ac- 379). f prior position of Officer-in-Charge, Brooklyn tion before this Congress adjourns to help Post Office. those we are sworn to helpÐvulnerable peo- SUCCESS OF CARE I wish to commend Joseph for his efforts in ple who cannot help themselvesÐthe sickest vastly improving the quality of postal service in and most frail population in this countryÐwho HON. JIM McDERMOTT the borough of Brooklyn. Joseph has ex- depend upon home care and the people who OF WASHINGTON panded passport acceptance services in the deliver it to them. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Brooklyn post offices, encouraged station managers to meet and greet customers in We need to do the right thing. I strongly be- Wednesday, August 5, 1998 their stations, and increased hours of oper- lieve the combined moratorium to provide im- Mr. MCDERMOTT. Mr. Speaker, as Con- ation in Brooklyn post offices and substations. mediate relief, and the trigger mechanism in gress moves forward on consideration of fiscal His initiatives and responsiveness has im- the HERO bill for future cost effectiveness, is year 1999 foreign operations appropriations, it proved customer relations between postal pa- the right thing to do. is worth noting a few of the many successes trons and the USPS. E1554 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks August 5, 1998 Joseph has served twenty years with the Who, in our country, deserves and needs CIGARS ARE NO SAFE USPS. Within three years of his induction to life insurance more than anyone else? This ALTERNATIVE ACT OF 1998 the USPS, he was promoted to a supervisory may be a hard question to answer, and in- position. Joseph has held numerous positions deed, our answers may vary. But high on the in customer services, including Delivery and list, I believe, must be our veterans. HON. EDWARD J. MARKEY OF MASSACHUSETTS Collection Supervisor; General Supervisor of I urge my colleagues to expand insurance City Delivery; Station Manager; Manager of opportunities for veterans. Please support and IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Delivery and Collection; Manager of Stations co-sponsor H.R. 4115. Wednesday, August 5, 1998 and Branches; Area Manager; Postmaster of Far Rockaway; Senior Manager of Post Office f Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to Operations in Westchester, New York; and introduce the Cigars Are No Safe Alternative various details at USPS Headquarters and in INTRODUCTION OF THE BIOMASS Act of 1998. the New York area. ENERGY EQUITY ACT OF 1998 Mr. Speaker, available scientific evidence A product of Brooklyn, New York, Joseph demonstrates that regular cigar smoking grew up in the New Lots neighborhood of causes a variety of cancers including cancers Brooklyn. He attended Public School 171, HON. WALLY HERGER of the lip, tongue, mouth, throat, esophagus, Thomas Edison High School, and graduated larynx, and lung. That same evidence dem- from St. Johns University. OF CALIFORNIA onstrates that heavy cigar smokers and those Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES who inhale deeply are at increased risk of cor- pay tribute to Joseph Lubrano for his commit- onary heart disease and can develop chronic ment and dedication to ensuring quality serv- Wednesday, August 5, 1998 lung disease. Despite these serious and dead- ice to the people of Brooklyn from the United ly health risks, cigar use is up dramatically in States Postal Service. Mr. HERGER. Mr. Speaker, today I join with the United States over the last five years: f my colleague Mr. MATSUI and our cospon- small cigar consumption has increased by an sorsÐMr. ENSIGN, Mr. MCCRERY, Mr. estimated 13%, large cigars by 70%, and pre- HELP EXPAND INSURANCE OPPOR- MCDERMOTT, Mrs. THURMAN, Mr. SMITH of Or- mium cigars by a whopping 250%. Teenagers TUNITIES FOR THE MEN AND egon, Mr. POMBO, Mr. HUNTER, Mr. DOOLEY, are a fast-growing market for these deadly to- WOMEN WHO DEFEND OUR NA- Mr. GIBBONS, and Mr. BLUMENAUERÐto an- bacco products. In fact, data from the Centers TION nounce the introduction of ``The Biomass En- for Disease Control's 1997 Youth Risk Behav- ergy Equity Act of 1998,'' legislation that will ior Survey indicate that among high school HON. BOB FILNER help sustain the economic and environmental students, over 30 percent of the males and 10 OF CALIFORNIA benefits provided to the public by the biomass percent of the females are current cigar smok- IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES power industry in the United States. ers. Wednesday, August 5, 1998 The biomass power industry is a unique Mr. Speaker, cigars are not a safe alter- source of renewable electricity. It generates native to cigarettes. Compared to a cigarette, Mr. FILNER. Mr. Speaker and colleagues, I electricity by combusting wood waste and nicotine yields for cigars are 9 to 12 times have introduced the Veterans' Life Insurance other non-hazardous, organic materials under greater; tar yields 2 to 3 times greater; and Opportunity Act of 1998 (H.R. 4115) to in- environmentally-controlled conditions as an al- large cigars emit 20 times more ammonia, and crease the accessibility of the Veterans' Group ternative to disposal or open-incineration of up to 10 times as much other cancer causing Life Insurance (VGLI) program to men and these materials. In effect, the biomass power agents. women of our Armed Forces following their industry makes constructive use of waste ma- separation from active duty. In order to drive home the message that Active duty service members, unless they terials that would otherwise become a public smoking cigars is not a safe alternative to decline coverage, automatically participate in liability. smoking cigarettes, I am introducing the Ci- the Servicemen's Group Life Insurance (SGLI) Mr. Speaker, the organic materials used as gars Are No Safe Alternative Act of 1998. The program. This coverage expires following their fuel by this industry are gathered from the ag- CANSA Act will prohibit the sale and distribu- discharge from the Armed Forces. ricultural and forest-related sectors of our tion of cigars to any individual who is under Under current law, veterans have only four economy and from our urban waste streams. the age of 18. It will directly impose restric- months to convert directly from SGLI to the In addition to the jobs that are generated by tions on the sale and advertising of cigars di- VGLI program. Then they have an additional this activity, a range of quantifiable benefits rected at youth, and eliminate cigar advertising 12 months to apply for VGLI if they can pro- arise: the risk and severity of forest fires is di- on electronic media. It will encourage cigar vide medical proof of insurability. Following minished, air pollution from open burning of manufacturers to end the practice of paying this brief time period, veterans have no other agricultural residues is avoided, and landfill for, or participating in cigar product place- opportunities to enroll in VGLI. space is preserved. In the absence of this $7 ments in movies and on television where a How many veterans, who are in transition billion per year industry, the nation would face substantial segment of the viewing audience is from military to civilian life, busy relocating a series of negative consequences above and under the age of 18. And it will direct the FDA themselves and their families, finding housing, beyond the loss of the renewable electricity to require warning labels on cigars to warn returning to school, and working hard to enter itself. cigar users about the health risks presented and advance themselves in the civilian work- by cigars. Congress recognized the importance of the force, are also thinking of life insurance Mr. Speaker, the CANSA Act will also re- biomass power industry when it enacted a bio- needs? Many are young and have not yet quire the Secretary of Health and Human mass energy production tax credit in 1992. thought of their future beyond the military. The Services to conduct a study on the health ef- Unfortunately, the production tax credit pro- deadlines for conversion are missed because fects of occasional cigar smoking, nicotine de- vided by this code sectionÐdue for expiration of the many more immediate issues that pendence among cigar smokers, biological up- within a yearÐhas never been accessible to newly-separated veterans are facing. take of carcinogenic constituents of cigars, Then, a couple of years go by, and the vet- the biomass power industry due to excessively and environmental cigar smoke exposure. It eran realizes the importance of life insurance. narrow drafting. Our legislation corrects this will require the Federal Trade Commission By that time, it is too late! defect in order to recognize and retain the (FTC) to report to Congress on the sales, mar- My bill, the Veterans' Life Insurance Oppor- public benefits, including the national security keting, and advertising practices associated tunity Act, provides a reasonable and more re- and system reliability benefits, of this impor- with cigars. And in addition, the Secretary, act- alistic level of flexibility for our veterans who tant industry. ing in cooperation with the FDA, the FTC, and want coverage under the VA life insurance Mr. Speaker, I truly believe that this is a the Department of Treasury, shall be required program. It would allow two years following ``good government'' issue whose clear merits to monitor trends in youth access to, and use their date of discharge to convert from SGLI to and environmental benefits transcend partisan of, cigars and notify Congress of the results. VGLI. Additionally, a second opportunity to and regional politics, and I would urge all of Mr. Speaker, if and when Congress does make the conversion would be provided five my colleaguesÐon both sides of the aisleÐto act to reduce teen smoking, we must send the years after their date of discharge from military cosponsor this important and much-needed unambiguous message to children and adoles- service. legislation. cents that cigars are no safe alternative to August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks E1555 cigarettes. I urge all members to become co- the problems, calls for an assessment of the ship, but their labors resulted only in the hard sponsors of the Cigars Are No Safe Alter- problem, creates a cost-share program to ad- heel of oppression when the Nazis came to native (CANSA) Act of 1998, and to support dress the need, and authorizes funding of the power and began their relentless persecution its passage in the House. program. of Jews and other minorities. Leibish Lefkowitz f During the week of July 4th, 1998, a cele- was fortunate enough to escape during World bration in Cordell, a small farming community War Two, and he settled with the Hasidic COMMENDING LOCAL UNION 101 in Western Oklahoma, marked the 50th anni- community in Brooklyn, NY. versary of America's first United States De- In those years, Reb Leibish enjoyed great HON. JERRY F. COSTELLO partment of Agriculture (USDA) floodwater re- success with a glass company he founded, OF ILLINOIS tarding structure. Constructed in 1948, the the Crystal Clear Importing Inc., which was IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Cloud Creek Watershed Site #1 was built headquartered in Ridgefield, NJ. He and his under the authorization of the Flood Control wife, Dinah, raised two children. As Reb Wednesday, August 5, 1998 Act of 1944 (P.L. 534). This authorization was Leibish became more and more prominent in Mr. COSTELLO. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to a result of a belief in Congress that rural wa- charitable and philanthropic enterprises, Dinah commend Local Union 101 of the Plumbing tershed protection, flood protection, proper became known as a dynamic industry leader, and Pipe Fitting Industry in Belleville, Illinois land management, and keeping raindrops guiding Crystal Clear Importing to phenomenal on the 100th anniversary of its charter. close to where they fall was best addressed growth. Local 101 has been serving the needs of through technical assistance available through In the early 1970's, when the need to estab- the plumbing and pipe-fitting industry for 100 the USDA. Works under P.L. 534 were author- lish a new Hasidic home in upstate New York years. It is made up of plumbers, pipe-fitters, ized in 11 major watersheds throughout the became apparent, it was Reb Leibish, Leopold Lefkowitz, who founded the Monfield Homes steam-fitters, service-fitters and gas-fitters. country. The success of P.L. 534 spawned the Company which purchased 172 acres in the These men and women work hard, and they enactment of the Pilot Watershed Program in Town of Monroe. It was his dream that the have made a significant difference in the com- 1953 and the Watershed Protection and Hasidic community moving to this new home- munity. In part due to the dedication of the Floodwater Protection Act of 1954 (P.L. 566). steadÐthe Village of Kiryas JoelÐwould come members of Local 101, the Belleville commu- P.L. 566 is commonly referred to as the USDA to live in peace and harmony with their neigh- nity has one of the highest standards of living Small Watershed Program. Over 10,000 flood bors. This was a goal he worked for from that in the Metro-East. Local 101 has helped com- retarding structures have been built across the plete the two hospitals in Belleville, the area time until the day of his death. nation under these combined programs. During the first twenty years of Kiryas Joel's high school and many other building and infra- The Small Watershed Program is one of our structure projects in the community. All existence, Reb Leibish Lefkowitz served as his nation's most successful public/private partner- community's elected Mayor. In that capacity, projects were completed with the highest qual- ships. In all instances, the USDA served as a he was not only the temporal leader of the Ha- ity craftsmanship. Mr. Speaker, Southwestern partner with states and local entities by en- sidic village, he was also the strong right arm Illinois is growing rapidly. MidAmerica Airport, couraging sponsorship of sites, providing cost- of its religious leaders. MetroLink Light Rail and other economic de- share funding for construction, doing site and Leibish was president of Brooklyn's Con- velopment projects give the region even more geologic surveys, and providing engineering gregation Yetev Lev and the United potential for growth and prosperity. Local 101 and design expertise. The local district pro- Talmudical Academy, to which he donated will continue to play a significant role in the vided all the land, easements and right of substantial funds over the years. He was well development of the region. ways, covered local construction costs, man- known for his compassion and his charity in Local 101 was one of the first unions in the aged the contracting process, and continue to helping many people in need throughout the area. When Local 101 was chartered on Au- operate and maintain completed works. years. gust 17, 1898 it had 23 members. Today it The Cloud Creek celebration serves as a re- The number of charitable and community numbers over 200. Local 101 has been instru- minder to all of us that over 1,000 of the struc- service causes in which Leibish Lefkowitz im- mental in securing pay equity for its members, tures built under these programs are now over mersed himself is truly awesome. Still legend- health insurance, a 40-hour work week, its 40 years old. Most of the structural measures ary is the tale of how he put together a coali- own pension plan and a continuous training built have an evaluated life of fifty years or tion of environmentalists, religious and ethnic program. 100 years ago these innovations have been swallowed up by urban develop- leaders, families, and other concerned citizens were unheard of. Today, because of the work ment. It is time to address the rehabilitation to successfully fight the construction of a gar- of unions such as Local 101, the hardworking needs of these aging structures. bage incinerator in the heart of the Williams- men and women in the plumbing and pipe-fit- Every state in the Union will eventually be burg section of Brooklyn during the early days ting industry are afforded safe workplaces, eq- impacted by this problem. I would encourage of Mayor Koch's administration. The inciner- uitable pay and worker protections. my colleagues to review the legislation, and I ator would not only have been a threat to the Mr. Speaker, I commend Local 101 on its look forward to their support. cause of clean air and to the health of the fine history of quality workmanship and its f neighborhood, it would have totally destroyed laudable record of promoting workers rights. I the cohesiveness of the various ethnic groups congratulate Local 101 on its first 100 years THE PASSING OF LEOPOLD who have made that neighborhood famous. and wish Local 101 and its members well in LEFKOWITZ Leibish earned the respect not only of Mayor the years to come. Koch but his entire administration for the mas- f HON. BENJAMIN A. GILMAN terly, gentlemanly way he revealed the folly of OF NEW YORK this incinerator plan. INTRODUCTION OF THE SMALL IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES On May 25, 1987, then-Governor Mario WATERSHED REHABILITATION Cuomo of New York presented Mr. and Mrs. Wednesday, August 5, 1998 AMENDMENTS OF 1998 Lefkowitz with a citation on the occasion of Mr. GILMAN. Mr. Speaker, it is my sad duty their being feted at the annual Door of Hope HON. FRANK D. LUCAS to inform our colleagues of the passing of an Banquet of the Pesach Tikvah Hope Develop- OF OKLAHOMA outstanding, remarkable constituent of my ment Company. The Governor noted that: IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 20th Congressional District of New York, who ``Reb Leibish has been a recognized and re- happened also to be a unique American who spected leader of the Hasidic community. His Wednesday, August 5, 1998 in many ways personified the American numerous leadership positions and organiza- Mr. LUCAS of Oklahoma. Mr. Speaker, dream. tions include the Presidency of Congregation today, I am introducing the ``Small Watershed Leopold Lefkowitz, known and beloved by Yetev Lev D'Satmar and United Talmudical Rehabilitation Amendments of 1998''. This bill his followers as Reb Leibish, was 79 years Academy, Founder and Mayor of the Village of will address the serious infrastructure needs of young when he died this past weekend, but Kiryas Joel, Chairman of the Board of United our nation's aging community sponsoredÐ many lifetimes were crammed into his busy, Jewish Organizations of Williamsburg, Found- USDA assisted dams. productive life. er and President of Opportunity Development ``The Small Watershed Amendments of He was born in Europe at a time when that Association, Founder and President of 1998'' provides a responsible legislative pro- continent was just beginning to deal with the S.A.T.M.R. School for Special Children, along posal aimed at addressing the infrastructure devastation of World War One. His family with contributions to uncounted charitable and needs of our aging watershed dams. It defines worked diligently to overcome economic hard- educational institutions.'' E1556 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks August 5, 1998 The Governor's citation continued: ``His Guam learned that the ship had no bell. Al- As a result the situation will only get worse. work on behalf of the community could not though ship's bells are considered obsolete Many agencies that have cut as far as they have succeeded without the support and ac- nowadays, prior to the advent of our modern can will not be able to hold out much longer. tive encouragement of his wonderful helpmate, communication systems, bells used to sound Yet, the bad news does not stop there. If Dinah.'' when the ship is anchored in a fog, mist, fall- HCFA fails to make the October 1, 1999 dead- Reb Leibish ironically died on Tisha B'av, ing snow, or heavy rainstorm. Further, the line, an across the board 15% reduction will one of the most solemn of all Jewish holidays. ship's bell was rung to indicate the time. In occur in all reimbursements to home health Over 5,000 persons attended his funeral serv- light of the situation, the chamber of com- agencies. This will surely drive out all the ice, where he was eulogized by grieving merce raised money by urging Guam's school home health agencies left. As a result, even mourners as a genuine friend of all. children to contribute a penny a piece. By De- more of our seniors will pass away or be Leopold leaves behind his wife, Dinah, two cember, 1928 over $700 had been raised and shipped to nursing homes to live their last children, Abraham and Chana, several grand- a bell and a plague was presented to LtComdr days in isolation. Not only would this be cost- children, and great-grandchildren. He also R.K. Autry, who was then the ship's com- lier for taxpayers, but it is simply wrong. leaves behind a legacy of humanity that all manding officer. Something, very simply, needs to be done. would be well advised to emulate. Details as to what happened to these items Mr. Speaker, I invite our colleagues to join That is why I am introducing the Home- after the first ship's capture but they somehow bound Elderly Relief Opportunity Act, also with us in expressing our condolences to the ended up at the Marine Corps Barracks on family, friends, and many admirers of Reb known as the HERO Act. It aims to solve this Guam. In 1954, the bell and plaque was pre- problem by accomplishing seven things. Leibish Lefkowitz. sented to the governor of Guam who decided f First, it creates a ``moratorium'' on the IPS. to have it displayed at the Nieves Flores Me- In other words the system goes back to the DECOMMISSIONING THE USS GUAM morial Library where the people of the island way it did pre-BBA with raised patient per visit could see it. In 1985, Mr. Bill Banning, a re- cost limits. This is what all home health agen- HON. ROBERT A. UNDERWOOD tired marine, was able to arrange for the bell cies need across the country to survive. OF GUAM and plaque to be loaned to the current USS Second, it allows the home health system to IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Guam. recapture some of the unanticipated savings Wednesday, August 5, 1998 On August 25, I will be joining a number of Guam residents in witnessing a solemn cere- that the Balanced Budget Act estimated while Mr. UNDERWOOD. Mr. Speaker, the USS mony wherein the United States flag and the still keeping the budget balanced. The savings Guam is slated for decommissioning this com- commissioning pennant will be lowered. As in the home health industry have far sur- ing August 25. The soon to be decommis- the crew marches off, the United States Ship passed the original savings envisioned by the sioned ship is the third to bear the name of will be transformed into a mere hull of steel. BBA. This bill quite simply allows the industry my home island. The original USS Guam was This is the passing of an era, a truly emotional the ability to recapture any unanticipated fu- a 159-foot river gunboat launched in 1928. moment for those who had the privilege to ture savings. No longer will agencies be She carried five officers and a crew of forty- serve and to the people who hail from the is- forced to go out of business and people re- four with a mission of protecting American in- land the vessel was named after. On behalf of moved from their health care providers. The terests on the inland and coastal waters of the people of Guam, the Guam Society of moratorium will help this to occur. China in the period preceding World War II. America, and the Guam community of Norfolk, Third, it establishes a ``trigger'' that will keep USS Wake, the gunboat was Renamed the Virginia, I would like to commend the officers the budget in balance. While most experts in captured by the Japanese in Shanghai on De- and sailors who have made great contributions the field estimate that this trigger will likely not cember 7, 1941. even be reached, this trigger is the essential The second USS Guam was authorized by and focused attention to the good name of our home island by serving on the USS Guam. I component in attempting to maintain a bal- Congress on November 21, 1943. The second anced budget. This bill is designed to be largest cruiser in the American fleet, the ship also thank the ship's commanding officer, Capital Bill Luti, USN, and his crew for allow- budget neutral by using actual CBO estimates was manned by over 2,000 men. She entered of spending on home health care under the the war in January, 1945 and earned two Bat- ing us the honor to attend the ceremony. Si Yu'os Ma'ase. BBA and capping at those levels. This cap will tle Stars on the Asiatic-Pacific Area Medal, the f prevent PAYGO problems. Navy Occupation Service Medal, and the Fourth, the trigger created will then allow China Service Medal. INTRODUCTION OF HERO ACT The current Guam was commissioned on states more flexibility than found in an other January 1965. An amphibious assault ship HON. VAN HILLEARY legislation by allowing each agency to choose designated LPH±9, she is designed to trans- between the 98% value of two formulas. Some OF TENNESSEE states, like my home of Tennessee, would form more than 2,000 Marine assault troops to IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES combat areas and land them by helicopter at have the ability to choose a mix of a 75% ``re- designated inland points. During the ship's dis- Wednesday, August 5, 1998 gional'' component and a 25% ``national'' com- tinguished service, she was assigned as prime Mr. HILLEARY. Mr. Speaker, the Balanced ponent. Other states that are structured dif- recovery vessel for the Gemini XI mission. Budget Act (BBA) made many changes to the ferently, like New York and New Jersey would Among others, she also recovered a rocket home health industry. Probably the most sig- choose a calculation of 75% ``national'' com- designed to study atmospheric conditions dur- nificant of these was the implementation of an ponent and a 25% ``regional'' cost comparison. ing a solar eclipse, transported marines during Interim Payment System (IPS) which changed Thus, this is one of the first bills that aims to several Caribbean deployments, performed the way home health agencies receive Medi- be regional neutral. No longer will Louisiana, humanitarian services in Peru, became part of care reimbursements. The IPS was supposed Tennessee, Texas, and Oklahoma be pitted the Multi-National Peacekeeping Force in the to be a temporary and efficient solution. In- against New York, New Jersey, and Vermont. Middle East, and assisted in the rescue of 200 stead, it has been an unmitigated disaster. All Fifth, it gives agencies who incur unusually American citizens in Grenada. The third ship parties for the most part seem unanimous to high costs due to an abnormal number of high to be designated USS Guam received the the fact that the system is not working and cost patients (such as through emergency Meritorious Unit Commendation, the Navy Unit that something must be done. care) to claim outlier status. An outlier status Commendation, the Armed Forces Expedition- As a result many agencies have either would allow agencies to care for patients with ary Medal, the Navy Expeditionary Medal, and closed or dropped coverage from otherwise more freedom. However, this outlier status two Humanitarian Service Medals. deserving senior patients. Many of our elderly would come out of the funds created by the After being decommissioned, we can only have died because of these closures and re- moratorium and fall under the money as used speculate whether this vessel would ever movals of coverage. in the ``trigger'' explained earlier. Thus, even again be called to be of service to our nation Making the problem even more severe is this provision aims to be in balance. or as they say, ``just fadeaway.'' Although we the fact that the Health Care Financing Admin- Sixth, it allows relief for new agencies and on Guam somehow feel sadness about the istration (HCFA), who is supposed to imple- establishes a proration of Medicare benefits decommissioning of our island's namesake, ment the permanent solution to aid home among agencies who share a patient. No we look forward to the return of several arti- health agencies, has stated that they will be longer will new agencies be unable to open cles. unable to make their deadline to end the IPS due to the draconian provisions of the IPS. In Back when the gunboat Guam was still sail- of October 1, 1999 due to among other rea- addition, where agencies share the same pa- ing the Yangtze River in 1927, the people of sons, severe Year 2000 computer problems. tient, one agency will not be able to take all August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks E1557 the Medicare payments from an eligible en- TRIBUTE TO JORDAN HENRY plishments of Jordan Henry Wilson, Jr. I know rollee, thereby leaving the second agency WILSON, JR. that his family and friends are proud of him, without payment. and I join them in congratulating him on this Seventh, this legislation relieves the im- HON. JULIAN C. DIXON well-earned tribute. As he prepares to set pending doom of the 15% across the board OF CALIFORNIA course on yet another chapter in his life, I ask reduction of October 1, 1999. The trigger caps IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES that you join me in extending our best wishes are in place in a similar fashion off January Wednesday, August 5, 1998 to him and Rosa on a future abundant in the 1998 estimates in order to keep the same riches of God's love, good health, and much budget neutrality the rest of the bill tries to at- Mr. DIXON. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to happiness. tain. commend Mr. Jordan Henry Wilson, Jr., on I urge all other members who see the need the occasion of his retirement from the Los f for a reform in IPS to back my bill. The Home- Angeles Unified School District. On Saturday, bound Elderly Relief Opportunity (HERO) Act August 15, 1998, Mr. Wilson, joined by his lov- GULBIN HONORED is a common sense way to relieve this system ing family and many friends, will be honored at in a sensible and financially responsible man- a retirement luncheon in the fellowship hall of ner. Park Hills Community Church. It is an honor to HON. PAUL E. KANJORSKI have this opportunity to recognize Jordan's OF PENNSYLVANIA f contributions tot he Los Angeles community. Jordan was born in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES IN HONOR OF THE 40TH ANNIVER- to Jessie and Jordan Wilson, Sr. The Wilson SARY OF THE GLENVIEW SENIOR homestead included 15 children. Always a Wednesday, August 5, 1998 CITIZEN CLUB hard worker, Jordan could often be found helping his father tend the family garden or in Mr. KANJORSKI. Mr. Speaker, I rise today HON. JOHN EDWARD PORTER the kitchen, helping his mother with the enor- to pay tribute to Jack Gulbin, president of mous duties befitting such a large household. Schott Glass Technologies Inc. He is retiring OF ILLINOIS He also worked part-time to help support his in October after 30 years with Schott. A cere- IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES family, and was well known for his positive at- mony in his honor is being held on August 13, Wednesday, August 5, 1998 titude and determination to focus only on the and I am proud to have been asked to partici- good things which life had to offer. pate in this event. Mr. PORTER. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to In 1953, Jordan joined the United States salute an organization in my congressional Born in 1935 in northeastern Pennsylvania's Army. When not fulfilling his military obliga- district that has supported the needs of senior Forest City, John George Gulbin graduated tions, Jordan was able to indulge his passion citizens for the past 40 years. The Glenview Magna Cum Laude in 1961 from the Univer- for sports by playing football with some of his Senior Citizen Club has expanded over the sity of Scranton with a degree in accounting. Army colleagues. He was honorably dis- years to encompass a variety of health and After graduation, Jack spent the next 7 years charged in 1955 and shortly thereafter, relo- recreational services needed to maintain the working for Arthur Anderson & Company, a cated to Los Angeles, California. public accounting firm, in New York City, and medical and social well-being of senior citi- A devoutly Christian man, his first task was zens throughout our area, and I am very Stanley Works, a hardware and tool manufac- to locate a church home, which would serve turer, in New Britain, Connecticut. proud to help recognize and celebrate the as his spiritual sanctuary as he set about the 40th Anniversary of its service. task of building a life in his new adopted In 1968, Jack was hired as the first control- The Glenview Senior Citizen Club was es- home. He found such a place at the Mount ler of a fledging company then named Schott tablished in 1958 with eleven dedicated indi- Moriah Baptist Church. Joining Mount Moriah Optical Glass Inc. As his hard work was rec- viduals organizing its monthly social events. Baptist Church turned out to be a very wise ognized by Schott, Gulbin began to climb the Presently, more than one thousand members and fortuitous decision for Jordan. There, he corporate ladder. In 1970, he was appointed participate in forty active programs including: met Rosa VerrettÐthe future Mrs. Jordan Wil- Schott's Treasurer and 5 years later, he was crafts, choral group, blood pressure testing, son, Jr. Rosa and Jordan were married in promoted to Vice President of Finance. In counseling, physical fitness programs, edu- 1961; they are the loving parents of daughter, 1989, Jack became Schott's Executive Vice cational and informational activities, and a va- Carolyn Renee Wilson Bowles; son, Keith La- President and on October 1, 1991, he was riety of social events. mont Wilson; and the proud grandparents of named President of Schott Glass Tech- This organization has attracted many mem- Darryl Lee Bowles, Jr. nologies Inc. bers due to its accommodating services that In 1987, the Wilson family joined the Zoe During Jack's tenure with Schott, the com- make it easier for senior citizens to participate. Christian Fellowship (ZCF) of Los Angeles. pany has moved to the cutting edge of glass First, there is a transportation service provided Under the leadership of ZCF's spiritual leader, technology. One of Schott's newest ventures at no charge that takes senior citizens to and Bishop Frank Stewart, Rosa and Jordan grad- is to build a processing plant in Duryea, Penn- from the center. They also broadcast the cen- uated from the ZCF training institute, and are sylvania that will produce super-thin glass ter's programs over local cable television sta- now actively involved in ZCF's ``Committee to using ``down draw'' technology, which allows tions to educate their members and the great- Service Ministries.'' In recognition of his con- for thinner glass to be created that requires er public about the work being done there. A tributions to the ZCF ministry, in 1997 Jordan less polishing. This glass will be used in dis- joint intergenerational program with the Glen- received the God's Man Award. view School System is also a way in which the plays for hand-held electronics for the U.S. 1998 marks Jordan's 14th and final year as Department of Defense ground forces and in center seeks to involve its members in com- a plant manager with the East Los Angeles munity related activities. avionics displays for military jets. Other uses Unified School District. He has provided out- include displays for laptop computers, work It is no surprise that the club's unique pro- standing service to the school district and I am stations, and commercial jet avionics. Schott's grams, services, and achievements have re- certain that his presence will be sorely missed ceived statewide recognition. They have twice new plant will be the first facility of its kind in by his many colleagues and friends. the United States. In addition to being impor- been the recipients of the Illinois Department Jordan's retirement from the school district tant for the national security, the expansion is of Commerce and Community Affairs ``Gov- will afford him additional precious time to de- expected to create an additional 100 jobs in ernor's Hometown Awards'' for Community In- vote to his church and his family. In the past, Northeastern Pennsylvania, adding to Schott's volvement in 1988 and ``Individuals and he has served as chairman of the Deacon status as one of the region's largest employ- Issues'' programs in 1998. Board of the Zoe Christian Fellowship of Los ers. Mr. Speaker, The Glenview Senior Citizen Angeles; supervisor of Junior Brotherhood and Club has long been a champion of civic serv- vice president of the Courtesy Committee at Mr. Speaker, Jack Gulbin is an able busi- ice and of providing a variety of programs es- the Mount Moriah Baptist Church; and vice nessman and a proven leader. I am pleased tablished to better the lives of its members. president of the Good Neighborhood Council to have had this opportunity to bring Jack's Together with everyone in the community, I of Los Angeles. He also is a member of the many accomplishments to the attention of my wish to congratulate the Club on its 40th Anni- Blind Institute of Los Angeles. colleagues. I thank Jack for all he has done versary and send best wishes for its continu- Mr. Speaker, it is indeed a pleasure to use for his native northeastern Pennsylvania and I ing success in all years ahead. this occasion to salute the career and accom- wish him a happy retirement. E1558 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks August 5, 1998 THE NATIONAL RIGHT TO WORK propriations Act. Had I been present, I would was recently named to the Executive Commit- ACT, H.R. 59 have voted ``no.'' tee and the board of the Jewish Home of Roll Call vote Number 388, the Mollohan Northeastern Pennsylvania. HON. JIM RYUN amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- Barbara first became a member of the Jew- OF KANSAS merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- ish War Veterans Auxiliary after her marriage propriations Act. Had I been present, I would to her husband, Sam, who would later serve IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES have voted ``no.'' as National Commander of the Jewish War Wednesday, August 5, 1998 Roll Call vote Number 389, the Pallone Veterans. Her love for the organization grew Mr. RYUN. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- and assumed leadership roles in the national speak for the millions of Americans who sup- merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- organization with great distinction, serving on port H.R. 59, the National Right to Work Act. propriations Act. Had I been present, I would the A-Board, Chair of the Membership Com- H.R. 59 will restore basic constitutional have voted ``no.'' mittee, National A-Wish, and Aid to Israel just rights to the workers of AmericaÐfreedom of Roll Call vote Number 390, the Engel to name a few. During this activity, she some- choice and freedom of association. It is mor- amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- how managed to raise three children who ally wrong and economically disastrous for us merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- have produced eight grandchildren. to allow Americans to be forced into paying propriations Act. Had I been present, I would Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have had the their hard-earned money as tribute to Big have voted ``no.'' opportunity to bring Barbara Greenberg's ac- Labor bosses for the privilege of having a job. Roll Call vote Number 391, the Royce complishments to the attention of my col- The United States Congress created this in- amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- leagues. I join with the Jewish War Veterans justice. We alone can end it. We must give merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- Auxiliary in thanking Barbara for her past and back to those we represent a freedom that propriations Act. Had I been present, I would future efforts. Congress took awayÐthe right to choose have voted ``no.'' f whether or not to join a labor union. Roll Call vote Number 392, the Bartlett It is my hope that this important bill comes amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, to the floor of the House for a vote before we merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- JUSTICE, AND STATE, AND JUDI- adjourn the 105th Congress. propriations Act. Had I been present, I would CIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1999 f have voted ``yes.'' Roll Call vote Number 393, the Talent PERSONAL EXPLANATION amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- SPEECH OF merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- HON. GARY L. ACKERMAN HON. JAMES C. GREENWOOD propriations Act. Had I been present, I would OF NEW YORK OF PENNSYLVANIA have voted ``yes.'' IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Roll Call vote Number 394, the Stearns amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- Tuesday, August 4, 1998 Wednesday, August 5, 1998 merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- The House in Committee of the Whole Mr. GREENWOOD. Mr. Speaker, on rollcall propriations Act. Had I been present, I would House on the State of the Union had under vote No. 385, the Scott amendment to H.R. have voted ``yes.'' consideration the bill (H.R. 4276) making ap- 4276, the fiscal 1999 Commerce, Justice, Roll Call vote Number 395, the Callahan propriations for the Departments of Com- State and the Judiciary Appropriations Act, it amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- merce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and was my intention to vote ``no''. I ask unani- merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 1999, and for other purposes: mous consent that my statement appear in the propriations Act. Had I been present, I would RECORD immediately following rollcall vote No. have voted ``yes.'' Mr. ACKERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I rise today 385. f to explain my vote against Rep. Engel's f amendment to the Commerce-Justice-State GREENBERG HONORED Appropriations Bill which would have slashed PERSONAL EXPLANATION $5 million from the Title XI ship building pro- HON. PAUL E. KANJORSKI gram, and given it to the Public Telecommuni- HON. CHARLES W. ‘‘CHIP’’ PICKERING OF PENNSYLVANIA cation Facilities Program (PTFP). OF MISSISSIPPI IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES The Federal Ship Financing Program was IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES established pursuant to Title XI of the Mer- Wednesday, August 5, 1998 chant Marine Act of 1936 to encourage ship Wednesday, August 5, 1998 Mr. KANJORSKI. Mr. Speaker, I rise today production and ship improvements. By promot- Mr. PICKERING. Mr. Speaker, I was un- to pay tribute to Mrs. Barbara L. Greenberg of ing the modernization of the U.S. merchant avoidably etained yesterday evening and Northeastern Pennsylvania. This month, Bar- marine fleet, we also enhance our national se- today and missed the following Roll Call votes: bara Greenberg will be installed as the Na- curity. As was clearly evidenced in the 1991 Roll Call vote Number 383, the Souder tional President of the Jewish War Veterans Gulf War, our merchant marine is critical for amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- Auxiliary. transporting troops and supplies throughout merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- Barbara was born in New York City and the world wherever they are needed. We must propriations Act. Had I been present, I would lived there until the end of World War II when maintain a strong fleet so that we can be pre- have voted ``no.'' she moved with her family to Northeastern pared in times of conflict, in addition to main- Roll Call vote Number 384, the Bass Pennsylvania, where she has resided ever taining our commitments in peace time. amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- since. The Public Telecommunication Facilities merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- Barbara graduated from Rider College with Program (PTFP) is another worthwhile pro- propriations Act. Had I been present, I would a degree in Medical Technology. After several gram. Over the past 30 years, the PTFP has have voted ``yes.'' years as a homemaker, Barbara began a ca- provided funding for both public radio and tele- Roll Call vote Number 385, the Scott reer in the insurance industry in 1972, which vision stations. Throughout my tenure in Con- amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- she still pursues to this date. gress I have been a strong supporter of public merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- From a very early age, Barbara learned love broadcasting which offers Americans a broad propriations Act. Had I been present, I would of country and a hatred of bigotry from her be- range of quality educational and cultural pro- have voted ``no.'' loved and patriotic father. As a child, she gramming for people of all ages. Roll Call vote Number 386 the Gutknecht helped her father in his anti-air raid duties dur- However, Mr. Chairman, it is ill-advised and amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- ing World War II. Barbara volunteers at the just plain wrong to pit one worthwhile program merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- Veterans Medical Center and participates in all against another in the appropriations debate. propriations Act. Had I been present, I would Veterans and Memorial Day parades. While the PTFP is an admirable program, I have voted ``yes.'' Barbara is also active in her Temple, hold- cannot vote to strip the Title XI program of $5 Roll Call vote Number 387, the DeGette ing many leadership positions over the years. million of the $6 million remaining in their amendment to H.R. 4276ÐFY 1999 Com- She has been president of the Women's Serv- FY99 Appropriations. I applaud my colleague merce, State, Justice, and the Judiciary Ap- ice Club at the Jewish Community Center and Mr. Engel's effort to increase funds for public August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks E1559 broadcasting, and I look forward to future ceremony in his hometown where many of his shops around the globe, 250,000 working right votes to further this goal, but in this instance, family, friends and neighbors could share in here in the United States. These workers en- I had to cast my vote against this amendment this wonderful experience. One person can dure long hours in filthy, unsafe factories and plants for subsistence wages paying so that we can maintain the Title XI program. make a difference and clearly, Ed made a dif- them barely enough to keep them alive. f ference for generations to come. f A typical sweatshop contains unsafe num- ORGAN AND TISSUE DONATION bers of people packed into poorly lit, dusty, disease-ridden workplaces, with no sufficient STAMP CEREMONY IN BARODA, VARIOUS ITEMS OF INTEREST TO TODAY’S YOUTH ventilation or running water. Supervisors MICHIGAN yell, scream, threaten and curse at the work- ers and put constant pressure on them to HON. FRED UPTON HON. BERNARD SANDERS work faster. For all their suffering, workers OF VERMONT are rewarded with paychecks reflecting hour- OF MICHIGAN IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ly wages of 20, 37, as low as six cents, often IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES with unexplained fees and tolls removed Wednesday, August 5, 1998 from the take-home amount. Wednesday, August 5, 1998 Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Speaker, I would like to Any workers who dare to speak up, to com- Mr. UPTON. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to have printed in the RECORD statements by plain about their working conditions or pay, recognize a special ceremony being con- high school students from my home state of are fired. If the workers try to defend them- ducted in my district in the town of Baroda. Vermont, who were speaking at my recent selves, to meet, to learn their rights, or or- Today, the residents of Baroda are celebrating town meeting on issues facing young people ganize a union, their employment is almost the issuance of the Organ and Tissue Dona- today. always illegally terminated. The most fun- damental human and employment rights of tion stamp. This stamp has long been of ex- STATEMENT BY KARL CLONEY, JESSICA MAR- treme interest to me, and I am pleased to see these workers are being violated on a daily TIN AND JONAH MONFETTE REGARDING basis. it finally released today. HEALTHY ALTERNATIVES Last November, I attended the Dedication KARL CLONEY: Karl Cloney, from North One million of these workers are children, ceremony in Washington, DC, and at that time County Union High School. Our topic is sold or rented out by their parents, in coun- tries such as India or Pakistan, into a life of I was given a large, poster-size copy of the healthy alternatives. The Newport area recently has suffered the hard, bonded labor at the hands of clothing stamp. Since that time, I have displayed it in and rug producers. Children who should be in my congressional office, providing all visitors loss of four teenagers killed in a drunk driv- ing accident on the way back from partying school are working long hours in unsafe, with the powerful message of organ and tissue in Canada. Recently, there was a town forum abusive conditions. To these children, edu- donation; it gives me great pleasure to know held to respond to this tragedy. The commu- cation is a fantastic privilege, and life a that this message will now be received by the nity came together to discuss the issues and daily struggle. entire country. some ways to create healthy alternatives. The move to Third World countries, where Around our State and Nation, recipients of JESSICA MARTIN: Our group came to- the minimum wages are steadily dropping organ and tissue donation can testify to the gether to propose a project to start an area and where environmental and worker regula- teen center. The center will be a safe place need for greater public awareness of this tions are nonexistent, has become an all too for teenagers to socialize in a healthy man- common trend in big business. Some of the issue. Although many lives have already been ner. We further propose that we buy a space saved, those life-saving numbers can certainly most heinous abusers of this form of labor as a long-term investment in area youth and produce staples in our everyday lives. go up through greater public involvement, edu- the community as a whole. We are looking at cation and outreach. The stamp being re- a size that would be large enough for a cafe At a Disney sweatshop in Haiti, a worker leased today can help greatly in this cause. for snacks to be served, a dance floor, and a who handles 375 Pocahontas shirts an hour is space for a pool and ping-pong tables, some paid the minimum wage of 28 cents an hour, I'm pleased that the U.S. Postal Service arcade games and video games. We also want or $10.77 a week, while the Disney shirts sell chose Baroda as the site for one of the an outside area for volleyball, skate-board- at Wal-Mart for $10.97 each. A pair of Nike ``issuance'' ceremonies given the long-time in- ing, and roller blading. We would solicit sneakers that sell in the U.S. for $140 cost volvement of Baroda resident Edward Heyn. funds as well as acquire grants and utilize the corporation $3.50 in offshore labor ex- For many years, Edward Heyn sought to com- state and federal funds set aside for alcohol- penses. That is about a 97 percent profit. free events and activities and teenagers. We memorate organ donation with the issuance of These exploitative companies could easily a United States postal stamp. Through letters would like AmericaCorps and Vista person- nel to staff the center full time. This would afford to pay their workers a living wage, to my office and the Postal Service, he and make our personnel more cost-effective and but greedily choose not to. thousands of other concerned citizens made a would include local, state and federal re- JESSICA RILEY: At the Student Progres- compelling case as to the importance of such sources. sive Coalition in Brattleboro Union High a stamp. Although Ed passed away 4 years We would create a board of directors made School in Brattleboro, Vermont, we have ago, his memory and willingness to help his up of parents, teens, business people and taken positive action against these prac- fellow citizen will endure through endeavors community leaders to oversee the center. tices. Devoting our time to these issues, we like today's postage stamp. Students would work in the center. This have gathered hundreds of signatures on a would give the teens responsibility, job As many of us know, the need for organs is petition to the National Labor Committee skills, and the ability to work with adults to calling for President Clinton to end sweat- greater than the supply. Across the Nation, create their own place. The center would be shop practices. We took part in the pro- over 60,000 people are waiting for organs, a healthy alternative to hanging out on the motion of and attendance at the National with over 2,000 of those in Michigan. Ed Heyn streets to see our friends. Day of Conscience that took place here, in was fortunate to receive an organ, and he had Our yellow ribbons symbolize the death of Burlington, on October 4th. We have edu- the vision to realize that with the issuance of our young people, and also symbolize our cated our community through a candle-lit a postal stamp the number of donated organs hope and commitment to find healthy alter- vigil, as well as taken our knowledge into an natives within our own community. elementary school to inform students there. could only increase. Every time someone uses JONAH MONFETTE: The teen center could a postal stamp with the ``Share Your Life'' Our letters have also stimulated the local be put where the Department of Employment paper to editorialize on the issue. It is al- image, they will think of the importance of and Training is now. It is moving to the new most impossible to walk down the halls of organ and tissue donation, and perhaps in re- building being built in Newport. It is an in- the community center without viewing an turn they will be more likely to donate them- dustrial building with space outside, and we informative poster or hearing an issue being selves. want to buy the space so that it would be discussed amongst the crowds. permanent. Therefore, this postal stamp has a message Newport has high unemployment. The teen By making the community more aware of that is two-fold: first to express the true life- center would provide job skills for students this one virtually unknown issue, we help to giving power of organ and tissue donation, helping with full-time staff. create a more conscientious consumer. But and second to raise awareness of medical The COURT: Thank you very, very much. awareness is only one part of the action issues, in hopes that the number of donations STATEMENT BY BRIAN HODGSON AND JESSICA needed. We also need the power of your law and lives saved per year will increase. It is RILEY REGARDING CHILD LABOR to help with the issue. wonderful to see Edward Heyn's vision mani- BRIAN HODGSON: In our world today, Mr. Congressman, the approval of your fested today, and it is only fitting to have this there are 250 million people toiling in sweat- bonded labor bill is a huge and welcome step E1560 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks August 5, 1998 in the fight to keep foreign items made by DAVID WALKER sequent service to the people of this county use of child labor being kept out of the coun- and state, Walker was a true patriot. try. He must not let the issue die with that. This county owes a great debt to David We need the U.S. to put money into the HON. KAREN L. THURMAN Walker, a man who was guided always by United Nations for inspections of shops OF FLORIDA granite-hard principles of morality. He was around the world, as well as more money IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES truly a man you could learn from and look into the U.S. Department of Labor to in- Wednesday, August 5, 1998 up to. His works and his memory will live crease inspections and sanctions right here on. at home. We also need laws that include pre- Mrs. THURMAN. Mr. Speaker, on July 6, [From the Citrus Times, July 8, 1998] vention of any sweatshop products from the Nature Coast of Florida lost a longtime LONGTIME ACTIVIST IN COUNTY DIES AT 82 being imported into the country. resident and advocateÐDavid Walker. BRIAN HODGSON: Although none of us on For years, Dave Walker sought to balance (By Josh Zimmer) this earth actively choose to support these economic development with environmental The 1980s were boom times for Citrus Coun- institutions by buying products without ty, a rural area experiencing the throes of thinking of the effects, we do support them. concerns in a changing Citrus County. Dave Walker was an informed constituent development as well as the threatening con- If we keep buying these tainted goods, if a sequences to the environment. company involved with sweatshop labor con- who based his positions on facts. When he While both forces fought for pre-eminence, tinues to make a profit, then they will not had something on his mind, he took the time David Walker, a former FBI agent, fur trap- give a thought to what they are doing, and to let me know his views. per and wildlife photographer, did what few these violations of justice will go on. We He was always a gentleman who conducted thought could have been done: must take the time to research safe labor or- himself in a professional manner. Soft-spoken, He found common ground. ganizations. We must take the time to look he nonetheless always got his point across; at clothing labels. We must make sacrifices Mr. Walker, formerly of Floral City, died in order that these violations do not con- and you had to respect him, even if you dis- Monday (July 6, 1998) in Tampa. He was 82. tinue. By being educated, we can help work- agreed with his position. Tuesday, Mr. Walker was remembered as a ers in other countries and in our own get the No person could question his integrity or uniquely well-versed, open-minded person rights they need and deserve. commitment. All in all, you had to like and re- who could bridge development and environ- spect Dave Walker. He was indeed a great mental interests. ‘‘I think he set the example for community STATEMENT BY NEALE GAY AND LIZ guy. I want to express my condolences to his activists engaging in a reasonable approach ROCHELEAU REGARDING EDUCATION AND to improving our county.’’ said Citrus Coun- WAGES wife of 57 years Catherine, and to his children, ty Commissioner Jim Fowler, who was a pri- NEALE GAY: My name is Neal Gay and grandchildren, and his great-grandchild on vate business owner when he met Mr. Walker this is Liz Rocheleau. their loss. at planning meetings. ‘‘He could see several Let us start by thank you for your time. For the RECORD, I would like to include an sides to an issue.’’ We will be discussing what we consider to be article from the Citrus Times and an editorial Mr. Walker, a vibrant public speaker who a wage problem plaguing the United States. from the Citrus County Chronicle. suffered from Parkinson’s disease in recent years, was a ‘‘a perfect gentleman,’’ Fowler In this land of opportunity, dreams cannot [From the Citrus Chronicle, July 10, 1998] be realized as socioeconomic, classes are di- said. vided into two groups, the haves and the WALKER WILL LEAVE LEGACY OF INTEGRITY Mr. Walker, who moved closer to his have-nots. We do not need a faction that is There is a force in some men and women daughter in Tampa in May, was born in able to control the wealth and prosperity of that sets them apart from other mortals, a South Portland, Maine. According to friends, an entire nation due to their personal and fine force that others can see, discern and he enjoyed recounting his youthful days immense wealth. We readily admit that react to very naturally and without ques- spent in the state’s vast woods, where he those with higher education may be better tion. later became a fur trapper. suited for management jobs; chances are David Walker, who passed away this week, In 1940, he embarked on a long career with they worked hard to attain dreams, like be- was such a man of character. the FBI, which ended in 1966 and provided coming CEO of a billion dollar company. But Walker had a reserved force of character him with additional fodder for his story- those that work under them are not given an within him, a fierce force of honest integrity telling abilities. opportunity to earn much more than a living that infused his every action and word. He In addition, Mr. Walker was widely trav- wage. came to serve us and protect the public in- eled, raising a family and holding onto a LIZ ROCHELEAU: Since 1979, blue collar terest at just the right time. close marriage all the while. workers earning a wage at or after the 20th Ten years ago this county stood to slide ‘‘I would consider myself to have had a percentile have seen their wages drop an as- into a sad slough of unrestrained cancerous very successful life if I did one-quarter of tonishing 11.8 percent. These wages are still growth, a development that appeared to be what David Walker did. The man was re- going down, and even though minimum wage inexorable. That growth threatened to over- markable,’’ said Gary Maidhof, interim di- has increased numerous times in recent his- lay the natural beauties of this gorgeous rector of the county’s Department of Devel- tory, inflation makes this increase not at all green portion of Florida with one long ser- opment Services. Despite his hard-bitten law worthwhile. Even more interesting, though, pentine stretch of asphalt and glaring store- enforcement background, Maidhof said, ‘‘He those earning a wage in the top ten percent- front glass. could go on at length about a bluebird nest ile are the only ones who have seen an in- Citrus County was being sucked into a pat- he established in his backyard.’’ tern of unbridled development that aimed to crease at all. We see this as a case of the rich One of Mr. Walker’s great skills as a con- tear up and destroy irreplaceable wetlands in getting richer, and the middle class and the servationist was attention to detail, remem- order to construct such things as apartment poor quickly descending the economic scale. bered Maidhof, who said he got to know Mr. houses and parking lots. Walker through their work together on the NEALE GAY: Marx and Engels wrote in Walker, along with a handful of other dedi- county’s first comprehensive development The Communist Manifesto, ‘‘Of all the class- cated conservationists and environmental- plan, approved in the mid-1980s, and other es that stand face to face with the bourgeois ists, or so these dedicated citizens were la- committees. today, the proletariat alone is a really revo- beled, stood up to speak against such devel- lutionary class. The other classes decay, and opment, to speak for the greater good. The plan, which guides development finally disappear in the race of modern in- He listened to others and he worked throughout the county, bears Mr. Walker’s dustry. The proletariat is its special and es- unstintingly to build a consensus. Largely strong imprint, he said. sential product.’’ If we take this as true, that due to who he was, through the force of his ‘‘That is a reflection to many of his influ- the worker has more worth than the indus- character and his admirable ability to calm- ences,’’ Maidhof said. trialist due to their work, then shouldn’t the ly discuss the facts without recourse to Another favorite cause of Mr. Walker’s was worker get a reasonable compensation for shrill emotion, he was able to convince deci- conservation, and he actively supported land his output? sion-makers that it was unwise to allow such acquisitions, such as Jordan Ranch and LIZ ROCHELEAU: We are not talking growth for short-term private profit. Potts Preserve, Maidhof said. about a revolution. We understand that the Walker devoted countless hours to help In later years, as his health failed, Mr. Federal Government can’t put a cap on what draft a development plan for the county that Walker remained keenly interested in envi- people earn, since capitalism grants private would protect our natural resources while al- ronmental issues, such as flood plain maps industry. What we want to know from you is: lowing more reasonable and thoughtful and ecosystem management ‘‘I would receive What has the government done to make growth. With the same vision and drive, he a phone call or a letter if there was an issue wage distribution just, and what are their worked on many other boards too, to the he felt strongly about,’’ Maidhof said. plans for the future? same end. Friends said Mr. Walker struggled with Congressman SANDERS: All right. Very In his life, in his long service to his govern- poor health and the toll it took on Cath- interesting. ment as an agent of the FBI, and in his sub- erine, his wife of 57 years. In recent months, August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks E1561 he required help getting in and out of a school owned and operated by a municipality. attend due to the administrative burden of ad- wheelchair, said former Citrus Commissioner On August 29, 1998, Mayor Alex Fekete, Vice ministering the fee. In other cases, American Hank Cohen. Mayor Frank Ortis, City Manager Charles schools entering into informal sister-school ex- Cohen and his wife, Miriam, visited Mr. Walker in Tampa less than two week ago. Dodge, and Commissioners William Armstrong changes with a foreign school may find that Mr. Walker’s voice was so weak that he and Susan Katz will proudly participate in the they are forced to charge the foreign student wrote his words on paper instead of speak- ribbon cutting ceremony for this innovative tuition while the American student is attending ing, Cohen remembered. educational facility which represents the first their sister-school for free. Catherine, who is older than Mr. Walker, fruition of their vision for greater educational This tuition requirement does not apply to wheeled him to the window for what turned opportunity in South Florida. foreign students who come to the U.S. to out to be a last farewell. As members of the school's advisory board, study in a program designated by the Director ‘‘That was a hard,’’ Cohen said, his voice along with the school principal, parents, and of the United States Information Agency breaking. ‘‘We could see him wave through. business representatives, they will oversee the (USIA). These students receive a J visa and He waved to us, we waved back, We knew that would be last we saw him.’’ day-to-day operation of the school in a part- are not required to reimburse the school for nership that will, as Mayor Fekete so nicely the cost of their attendance. On the other f states, ``bring education back closer to the hand, foreign exchange students in the U.S. GOLD STAR AWARDS people.'' The school will focus on the core dis- under an F±1 visa are usually attending ciplines and modern educational technology. school under informal arrangements, with a Perhaps more importantly, it will emphasize teacher or parent having invited them to spend HON. RON PAUL character development as well as parental and time in the U.S. as a gesture of American hos- OF TEXAS community involvement. pitality and goodwill. Some schools participate IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES To ensure a nurturing ambiance conducive in informal sister-school exchanges where one Wednesday, August 5, 1998 to intellectual, emotional, and social develop- of their students will go abroad and the school ment, class size will be limited to a maximum in turn will sponsor a foreign student here. Al- Mr. PAUL. Mr. Speaker, the Matagorda of 25 students, and a fully accredited teacher though these are informal, flexible, private ar- County 4-H will hold an awards program on as well as a teacher's aide will be assigned to rangements between schools and students the 20th of August and this is a very important each class. The school will deliver high quality that are not designated by the USIA, they are event Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker I have, in the education while being more cost effective than no less valuable in developing goodwill and past, pointed out how important an organiza- other schools managed by the district. The per greater understanding among people of dif- tion 4-H truly is for those of us who were student station cost for the Pembroke Pines ferent nations. In many cases, it simply does raised on farms and who represent agricultural Charter School comes to $8,600 in contrast to not make sense to charge tuition to foreign ex- communities. As I have said in the past Mr. the $13,000 per station average for the state change students simply because they have an Speaker, one of the primary missions that this schools. F±1 visa rather than a J visa. organization undertakes is agricultural edu- I commend the efforts of these elected offi- The legislation I am introducing today will cation. I believe that this mission is so critical cials, Mayor Alex Fekete, Vice Mayor Frank give schools the ability to have the Attorney that, earlier this year, I introduced a bill which Ortis, City Manager Charles Dodge, and Com- General waive the F±1 visa tuition fee require- would exempt the sale of livestock by those missioners William Armstrong and Susan ment. Schools that certify that the waiver will involved in educational activities such as FFA Katz, who dared to take a step in a new direc- promote the educational interest of the local and 4-H from federal income taxation. By tion. The rest of our country will be closely educational agency and will not impose an making young men and women who partici- watching the progress of this new educational undue financial burden on the agency will be pate in these activities hire a group of tax ac- alternative and may soon follow the innovative able to allow foreign exchange students to at- countants and attorney we are sending the lead of these municipal officials. I share in tend without charging a fee. On the other wrong message. Young people who sell live- their excitement because this Charter School hand, schools that do not want to waive the stock at county fairs and the like should be re- provides another creative option for public fee will still be able to collect it. This legislation warded for taking self initiative and allowed to education. Our future resides in our children, will simply give schools added flexibility to keep the money they've earned to help pay for and our schools must commit themselves to sponsor foreign exchange students without their education or to re-invest in other animals excellence as they strive to better prepare limiting the right of schools to collect needed to raise. My bill would eliminate the current them for the next century. fees. I urge all my colleagues to support this policy of forcing these youngsters to visit the f legislation. tax man. f Mr. Speaker, I want to commend the follow- F–1 STUDENTS ing winners of the Gold Star, the highest MR. STARR DEPARTS HIS PRI- award possible at the county level, for HON. BILL McCOLLUM VATE PRACTICE FAR TOO LATE achievements in competition at state levels, OF FLORIDA leadership ability, community service and IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES HON. JOHN CONYERS, JR. years of service. They are: Kim Evans, Wednesday, August 5, 1998 OF MICHIGAN Courtney Wallis and Lindsey Kubecka. Again, IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES I want to commend these young people for Mr. MCCOLLUM. Mr. Speaker, today I am their achievements. introducing legislation to give American high Wednesday, August 5, 1998 f schools the ability to welcome foreign ex- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Speaker, last Friday, change students into their schools without re- Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr an- TO COMMEMORATE THE OPENING quiring them to charge tuition. I am pleased to nounced his decision to take an unpaid leave OF CHARTER SCHOOLS IN PEM- be joined by my colleagues, Mr. FRANK of of absence from his partnership at the well BROKE PINES, FLORIDA Massachusetts and Mr. PICKETT of Virginia. known law firm of Kirkland & Ellis. This deci- It was brought to my attention that individual sion has been a long time in coming: Mr. HON. PETER DEUTSCH schools which participate in informal programs Starr's work with his law firm was often a di- OF FLORIDA to allow foreign exchange students to attend rect conflict of interest with his work as Inde- IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES school in the U.S. are required to charge pendent Counsel. these same students tuition. The F±1 visa is Mr. Starr had been earning up to one million Wednesday, August 5, 1998 for students who seek to enter the U.S. tem- per year and sometimes more for his services Mr. DEUTSCH. Mr. Speaker, I rise to con- porarily and solely to pursue a course of as a partner in the firm. Whether or not this gratulate the City of Pembroke Pines for re- study. Under existing law, even if the school steady source of income from private practice sponding to our community's concerns regard- and the local school district do not want to allowed him the luxury to drag on an inves- ing the education of our youth. In an effort to charge the student for accepting an invitation tigation that is going into its fifth year and has ease some of the overcrowding and to better to study in the U.S., the student will not be cost American taxpayers more than forty mil- prepare students for the challenges they will able to receive an F±1 visa without paying the lion is a matter that is not entirely clear. In the face in the new millennium, the City of Pem- fee. In some cases, the school, which other- meantime, Mr. Starr has taken on additional broke Pines has taken the bold initiative of wise would welcome a foreign exchange stu- law clients and handled their legal matters not- creating the nation's first elementary charter dent, may be deterred from allowing them to withstanding criticism from some of his allies E1562 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks August 5, 1998 and even a few within the law firm who felt it counsel Vicki Toensing who also alleged that lice Department in the fight against crime and more appropriate that he spend his time on Mr. Witt had resigned. drug activity in the neighborhood. And it's my his government responsibilities as Independ- In an effort to determine the merit of these honor to join Mary Malone, the President of ent Counsel. This does not take into account charges, during a break in the hearing, I met the Association, because she has sacrificed to the additional time he has devoted to aca- with Mr. Witt. I found him to be appalled by help so many others. demic teaching and public speaking appear- the criminations, which he stated had no merit. Mary Malone has been honored with a proc- ances unrelated to either his private law prac- He asked that he be able to address the Sub- lamation by the State of Texas. She has been tice or his governmental duties. committee in order to deny the charges honored by the Dallas Police Department, and It has also been observed that some of Mr. against him under oath. He told me that he I had the pleasure of attending an event in her Starr's private representation has been in con- would deny that he had resigned, would deny honor at the East Dallas Rotary. There is not flict with his duties as independent counsel. having a shredder delivered to his office, and enough room in the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD For example, his firm has represented the Re- would deny being in the building or shredding to name the things she has done for the Las publican party. He has also represented to- documents on July 18th. At the resumption of Casas Neighborhood or the awards she has bacco companies, an industry that the Clinton the hearing, Representative SCOTT asked for received to honor her work. But I want my col- Administration has exposed for misleading and unanimous consent to permit Mr. Witt to deny leagues to know that, when friends, neighbors, fraudulent tactics, and other corporations that the outrageous charges against him. Con- and families join in an effort to improve their have been in opposition to the Clinton admin- gressman HOEKSTRA refused to permit Mr. lives, we can make a difference. And there is istration policies or have been under scrutiny Witt the opportunity to deny the allegations, no better example of this than the Las Casas by federal agencies. In another instance, one objecting to the unanimous consent request Neighborhood Association and Mary Malone. or more of Mr. Starr's law partners has worked and ruling the Minority's motion out of order. f with the lawyers of Paula Jones. Notwithstand- Unfortunately, this irresponsible allegation ing the appearance of a potential conflict of in- by the Majority has cast grave doubt on the STEVE HORNIK HONORED BY MON- terest, the law firm of which the Independent Subcommittee's investigation. The Majority MOUTH-OCEAN CENTRAL LABOR Counsel was a member took no dispositive has made a serious allegation of criminal be- COUNCIL action to remedy the situation. Even the legal havior and then refused to permit the person ethics advisor to the Independent Counsel, Mr. maligned an opportunity to rebut the charges. HON. FRANK PALLONE, JR. Sam Dash, said that Mr. Starr's representation Rather than admit that their charges were OF NEW JERSEY of private clients ``had an odor to it.'' baseless, the Majority refused to allow the in- IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Why would Mr. Starr leave his firm at this dividual about whom they made their allega- Wednesday, August 5, 1998 point in time as he moves into the fifth year of tion the right to defend himself. I find this un- his prosecutorial responsibilities? Mr. Starr has worthy of a Congressional investigation. Mr. PALLONE. Mr. Speaker, on Wednes- explained that wrapping up the investigation f day, August 19, at the Breakers in Spring will be a full-time job. This explanation may Lake, NJ, Mr. Steve Hornik will be honored by betray a failure on his part to understand that LAS CASAS NEIGHBORHOOD his many friends at a testimonial dinner on the during the preceding four years, the investiga- ASSOCIATION ANNUAL MEETING occasion of his retirement as President of the tion should always have been a full-time job. Monmouth-Ocean Counties Central Labor The beginning of his work should have been HON. PETE SESSIONS Council. as important as the end of his work. OF TEXAS Mr. Speaker, Steve Hornik has been Presi- It is certainly high time that Mr. Starr has re- IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES dent of the Monmouth-Ocean Council for more than 25 years. His has been a career in which signed from private practice. It should have Wednesday, August 5, 1998 come much sooner. Perhaps now the inves- he came up through the ranks, serving the tigation will proceed, and the American people Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Speaker, I want to labor movement at virtually every level. will be able to put the controversies created by share with my colleagues the positive impact Through it all, he has put first and foremost allegations of Mr. Starr's abuses and excesses that can be made by people who care. In East the needs of working men and women, whose behind them in the near future. Regardless of Dallas, there's a small neighborhood that interests he has defended so staunchly for these reservations about Mr. Starr's belated makes a great impact in the lives of many. decades. Indeed, you could say that his en- departure from his private practice, we can as- The Las Casas Neighborhood Association, thusiasm and dedication for fighting for work- sure him and our colleagues that whatever re- which is headed by the indomitable Mary Ma- ing people is in his blood. His father, Stephen, port he submits to Congress will be given a lone, has grown exponentially since its incep- was a truck driver and is a retired member of careful and non-political examination. The tion, and it has made that part of East Dallas the Teamsters Union. His mother, Frances, House Committee on the Judiciary is commit- safer and better for everyone in that commu- was a counter girl at Woolworth's, who walked ted to discharging its responsibilities in a way nity and in surrounding areas. picket lines to try to organize her co-workers, that will satisfy every citizen of our serious- Early in its tenure, the Las Casas Neighbor- and later became a member of Local 56, the ness and commitment to due process for both hood Association consisted of a few interested United Food and Commercial Workers Union the President and the Independent Counsel. neighbors meeting occasionally to discuss (U.F.C.W.). f problems in their community. Thanks to Mary Steve Hornik first became a charter union Malone, the group has begun to meet more member when he was 14 years old while REGARDING H. RES. 507 regularly, and its annual meeting draws as working at Yankee Stadium and the Polo many as 300 people. At one time, this simple, Grounds as a vendor for Harry M. Stevens HON. PATSY T. MINK neighborhood meeting drew more than 500 Concessions, where he helped to organize his OF HAWAII people. fellow workers. He was later a member of the IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Each year, Mary Malone's Las Casas Teamsters Union Local 814, then the Mailers Neighborhood Association annual meeting is Union of the big six Newspaper Guild at the Wednesday, August 5, 1998 the gathering of those interested in making a New York Times and John Sweeney's Local Mrs. MINK of Hawaii. Mr. Speaker, on July difference. From fighting crime to improving 32A, working nights while going to school. He 30, 1998 Congressman HOEKSTRA stated dur- traffic safety, the Las Casas Neighborhood As- later went to work at the Maxwell House Cof- ing the debate on House Resolution 507 that sociation meeting joins residents of East Dal- fee Plant in Hoboken, NJ, where he became ``two IBT employees wearing green uniforms las, elected representatives, and public offi- a member of Local 56, Amalgamated Meat delivered an industrial size shredder to the of- cials to discuss the status of efforts to improve Cutters and Butcher Workmen's Union of fice of the IBT communication director, Matt the neighborhood and the lives of the families North America, which has since merged to be- Witt, during the week of July 13, 1998, and that live there. I know that the Mayor of Dal- come the U.F.C.W. that the noise of the shredder operating in that las, Ron Kirk, will be in attendance, as will Steve Hornik has been a member of Local office could be heard on Saturday, July 18, members of the Dallas police force. 56 for 40 years, during which time he moved when Mr. Witt was in the building.'' Later that Mr. Speaker, I have the honor of acting as up the ranks from Alternate Department Stew- afternoon, at the Committee on Education and the Master of Ceremonies at this year's Las ard and Department Steward of 250 members, the Workforce's Subcommittee on Oversight Casas Neighborhood Association annual then Chief Steward of the plant of 1,200 mem- and Investigations hearing, this accusation meeting. Since 1993, I have been deeply in- bers, after which he was put on the Local 56 was again repeated by the Majority's co-lead volved with the Association and the Dallas Po- staff as Organizer, Business Representative, August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks E1563 after moving on to the Officer's Staff as Press TRIBUTE TO ISAAC DARKO Program (ATP) to the Edward Byrne grant Secretary, First Vice President and Secretary program at the Department of Justice, an ef- Treasurer of the 16,000-member local for HON. JOSE´ E. SERRANO fort which I strongly support. The Byrne grant more than 20 years. He was a charter mem- OF NEW YORK program is a valuable tool for local law en- ber and President of the Hunterdon-Warren IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES forcement in the fight against the crime and Counties Central Labor Council for four years, drug problems that threaten our neighbor- after which he was elected President of the Wednesday, August 5, 1998 hoods. I believe that scarce taxpayer dollars Monmouth-Ocean Counties Central Labor Mr. SERRANO. Mr. Speaker, I rise to con- are better spent in this anti-crime program Council. gratulate and to pay tribute to Mr. Isaac than in the ``corporate welfare'' ATP, which I Some of the other responsibilities Steve Darko, a constituent of mine and a distin- have consistently opposed. Hornik holds or has held, representing labor, guished student at Columbia University in New f include: Chairman of the Rutgers University York. He will be recognized for his academic Trade Union Consulting Council, the Mon- and scientific achievements as a participant in INTRODUCTION OF LEGISLATION mouth County Workforce Investment Board, the National institutes of Health (NIH) Under- TO ENSURE PROMPT CLAIM PAY- United Way of Tri-State Board of Governors, graduate Scholarship Program for Individuals MENT BY HEALTH PLANS and a Commissioner on the Governor's Em- from Disadvantaged Backgrounds (UGSP) on ployment and Training Commission. He is also August 6, 1998. HON. JIM McDERMOTT on the Advisory Boards of Brookdale College, Isaac graduated from the Health Profes- OF WASHINGTON Monmouth University and is a member of the sions and Human Services High School in IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES State Board of Arbitration and Mediation. He 1997 and has just completed his freshman Wednesday, August 5, 1998 was previously on the Executive Board of the year at Columbia University. This summer he New Jersey Central and State Lung Associa- has been working at the NIH Department of Mr. McDERMOTT. Mr. Speaker, today I am tions, a Member of New Jersey Chief Justice Molecular Biology under the supervision of Dr. introducing legislation that addresses the issue Robert N. Wilentz's Courts Committee on Effi- Alfred Johnson. He has been working on the of prompt payment, that is, ensuring health ciency, the Private Industry Council, the Con- epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR), plans reimburse providers in a timely manner. gressional Award Council and the Manalapan which is expressed in such cancers as breast Although there have been numerous horror Democratic Club. He has been a member of and prostate cancer and in other cancer cell stories of health plans withholding reimburse- numerous State and County screening com- lines. ment from providers the issue of prompt claim mittees, and was a delegate to four of the last Mr. Speaker, the UGSP scholars search is payment has not been addressed during the five Democratic Conventions. He remains a highly competitive and nationwide. Currently, managed care reform debate. County Committee Member, a position he has the program has 24 scholars from all over the My view is that the prolonged delay of claim held for the last 35 years. He has been and nation, from institutions such as Columbia Uni- payments by health plans interferes with the continues to be active with the Knight of Co- versity, MIT, Harvard, Georgetown, U.C. doctor-patient relationship. lumbus. Davis, and Stanford. In order to participate in By delaying reimbursements to doctors, Steven Hornik is also a devoted family man. the program, a Scholar must either have a 3.5 health plans are turning care-givers into bill He and his wife Arline have four grown chil- Grade Point Average or be in the top 5% of collectorsÐforcing them to hound both the in- dren and 10 grandchildren. his/her class. Candidates must also dem- surance company and the patient for reim- Mr. Speaker, I could go on and on, talking onstrate a commitment to pursuing careers in bursements which, in most cases, should al- about my good friend Steve Hornik, citing his biomedical research and must be from a dis- ready have been paid by the plan. many accomplishments on behalf of working advantaged background. The current group is Unnecessary reimbursement delays by people and his many contributions to our com- composed of 32% Hispanics, 32% African health plans create unnecessary rifts between munity. At the testimonial in his honor later Americans, 21% Asians, 10% Caucasians, the patient and the providerÐcausing confu- this month, many of these great accomplish- and 5% Native American, with a balance be- sion with patients about their health insurance ments will be recounted, happy memories re- tween the genders of 52% female and 48% plan at a time when they are most vulnerable called and funny stories told. We will miss his male. and possibly even distrust by the patient in the hard work, his energy and his honest dedica- Mr. Speaker, being selected for this pro- quality of their provider. tion to fighting for the interests of working peo- gram indicates that Isaac has demonstrated The attached article from the August 2, ple. that he has the ability and the desire to be an 1998 Washington Post elaborates with spe- Mr. Speaker, labor unions have achieved asset and a role model in our community. We cific, real life examples of the above men- many important victories over the years, fight- are proud of his accomplishments and I know tioned issues. ing for safe working conditions, living wages, he is taking full advantage of the opportunity Medicare, Medicare+Choice, & Medicaid al- health care benefits and a dignified retirement. presented to him. He is a terrific example for ready have statutory language requiring The battles fought and won by the labor future participants in this program and others prompt payment by its contractors. Yet, when movement have not only helped union mem- like it. President Clinton extended managed care pro- bers. America's broad-based economic Mr. Speaker, I ask my colleagues to join me tections to federal employee health plans, he growth, the expansion of the middle class, the in congratulating Mr. Isaac Darko for his out- did not include the prompt payment language existence of programs like Social Security and standing accomplishments and also in com- in his executive order. Medicare, and the realization of the American mending the National Institutes of Health Un- Because of federal inaction, some states dream for tens of millions of families all owe dergraduate Scholarship Program for Individ- have taken the lead in this area. Texas, Flor- a tremendous debt of gratitude to labor uals from Disadvantaged Backgrounds for of- ida, Tennessee, New York, and New Jersey unions. These days, unions are under attack. fering opportunities to students like Isaac. have stat laws requiring prompt payment. But I believe public support is still strong. I f Similar bills have been introduced in Georgia, know that the unions will continue to fight for Massachusetts, New Jersey, Oklahoma, Penn- such basic rights as universal health care cov- PERSONAL EXPLANATION sylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Wash- erage, increased pension security and fair ington. trade agreements that protect American jobs. HON. JO ANN EMERSON Most of the state laws appear stricter than It's great leaders like Steve Hornik who have OF MISSOURI the Medicare+Choice model I propose. For ex- made, and continue to make, the union move- IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ample, in addition to establishing clean claim ment strong. payment guidelines, Texas requires strict time I regret that Steve Hornik will no longer be Wednesday, August 5, 1998 lines for plans when notifying a provider that at the helm of the Monmouth-Ocean Central Mrs. EMERSON. Mr. Speaker, I rise to clar- a claim is being investigated. The plan must Labor Council. But I know that we will con- ify my vote on Roll Call vote 384, Mr. BASS' explain in writing why they reject a claim, and tinue to benefit from his contributions to the amendment to the Commerce, State, Justice, make payments in 5 business days after noti- ongoing fight for social and economic justice and the Judiciary Appropriations bill. Yester- fying claimants that their claim will be paid. for working people. Steve Hornik has contrib- day, I inadvertently voted ``nay'' when I in- New York, home of the infamous Oxford uted to that fight more than anybody I know. tended to vote ``aye''. Health Plan, has by far the strongest penalties The example that he set will guide us all for Mr. BASS' amendment would have trans- for plans that fail to comply with their prompt years to come. ferred funds from the Advanced Technology payment laws. New York plans can be subject E1564 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks August 5, 1998 to fines of up to $500 per day for each claim Problems with ‘‘billing or payment of vestigating Emmert’s medical history to de- not paid within 345 days. claims or premiums’’ tied as the top health termine if her cancer was a preexisting con- Rather than draft comprehensive legislation insurance complaint of Californians sur- dition and therefore excluded from coverage. veyed last fall by a state health policy task Emmert, 45, who bought her Provider pol- this year that includes stronger guidelines than force. Fourteen percent said those relatively icy last August and had surgery in Decem- are currently in place at the federal level, I pedestrian issues were their biggest health ber, said she found the company’s doubts chose to introduce legislation that simply ap- insurance problem, eclipsing such hotly de- hard to understand. ‘‘I had cancer in August plies the existing Medicare+Choice prompt bated issues as delays in obtaining needed and I waited till December to do anything payment regulations to all health plansÐregu- care or difficulty getting referrals to special- about it?’’ she asked, rhetorically. ‘‘Yeah, lations that Congress overwhelmingly sup- ists. right.’’ ported last year. Some rapidly growing health plans have The bills came due just in time to get overreached, adding members much faster If enacted, my legislation requires health caught in the confusion when Provident than they have added workers. Others have moved its claims processing operations from plans to pay 95% of the clean claims within 30 thrown their customer service into chaos, at Minnesota and Pennsylvania to Florida in days of receipt. If health plans do not comply least temporarily, by merging with compa- late January. ‘‘The data transfer did not go with these guidelines, the bill requires plans to nies that use different systems, consolidat- smoothly,’’ said Jimmy Potts, Provident’s pay interest on clean claims that are not paid ing far-flung offices, laying off experienced vice president for market conduct and com- within 30 days. The legislation also requires employees in one part of the country and pliance. The move ‘‘created a delay that is that all other claims must be approved or de- hiring novices to replace them somewhere frankly unacceptable to the company, but else—all in the name of efficiency. nied within 60 calendar days from the date of under the circumstances was unavoidable.’’ ‘‘Most plans today are having serious serv- Following the move, Provident was so the request. icing issues—issues of turnaround time, ac- overwhelmed with inquiries about delayed Congress can begin to address this impor- curacy, being able to respond to consumers,’’ payments that callers were left on hold for tant issue and alleviate much of the stress said Richard Sinni of Watson Wyatt World- as much as an hour and a half at a time, health plans are causing both patients and wide, which audits health plan performance Potts said. providers by passing prompt payment legisla- for employers. ‘‘I think they’ve gotten worse The company agreed to pay thousands of across the board.’’ dollars for Emmert’s care on July 8 after the tion. I urge my colleagues to join me in taking Many doctors, hospitals and patients ac- action on this issue this year. Colorado Division of Insurance showed that cuse insurers of dragging out payments as she had been insured before she bought cov- [From the Washington Post, August 2, 1998] part of a deliberate strategy to wear them erage from Provident. That made any ques- down or continue earning interest on their HEALTH CARE’S PAINFUL CLAIMS—PROBLEMS tion of a preexisting condition moot, Potts money as long as possible. WITH INSURERS PLAGUE MANY PATIENTS said. Insurers deny that the delays are inten- ‘‘We recognize it’s a frustrating time for (By David S. Hilzenrath) tional. They attribute them to a variety of her,‘‘ Potts said. ‘‘But it also has been an in- Olney resident Tammy L. Rhoades’s health factors, including their own administrative credibly frustrating time for those of us insurer, Blue Cross and Blue Shield of the errors, patients’ ignorance about their bene- within the insurance company.’’ fits and necessary enforcement of sometimes National Capital Area, left her on the hook William Cooke’s sentiments in his dispute for $384 of anesthesiology charges because unpopular standards. This much is clear: The industry’s height- with Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Maryland the doctor who administered pain relief went beyond frustration. In a complaint to while she was in labor wasn’t a ‘‘preferred ened focus on the bottom line means bills these days are subject to stricter scrutiny the Maryland Insurance Administration provider.’’ (MIA), the Baltimore retail manager accused Baltimore resident William F. Cooke’s in- and challenge. ‘‘We do not apologize aggressive approach the company of ‘‘predatory’’ behavior. surer refused to pay $1,404 for respiratory Blue Cross defended its decision not to pay therapy he received after being diagnosed to . . . utilization review on behalf of our members,’’ William L. Jews, chief executive for Cooke’s respiratory therapy in an August with lung disease. Cooke said he checked 1997 letter to the MIA, noting that Cooke’s with Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Maryland of CareFirst, said in a news release last week. policy explicitly excluded ‘‘admissions or before he started treatment. But the com- any period of stay in a facility’’ for various pany rejected the bills, saying his policy’s CareFirst, parent of the Blue Cross and Blue Shield companies serving Maryland and services. stated coverage of ‘‘physical therapy’’ didn’t The relevance of that was hard to fathom, mean ‘‘respiratory therapy.’’ the District, has a duty to make sure cus- tomers’ health dare dollars are spent respon- because Cooke said he received the therapy David Trebach of Alexandria received no- on an outpatient basis. tice in June that a doctor’s office would ob- sibly, executives said. The insurer is also caught between conflicting expectations— Months later, Blue Cross continued to tain a court summons and ‘‘an immediate argue that, while Cooke’s policy covered judgment against you and your property’’ if those of the people who receive the care and those of the employers who subsidize it, offi- ‘‘physical therapy,’’ the treatment he re- he didn’t pay hundreds of dollars of bills dat- ceived didn’t fit the definition. ing back as far as June 1997. Despite cials said. ‘‘The employers . . . ask Blue Cross to be The MIA disagreed. In March, it wrote that Trebach’s persistent pleas, Kaiser stricter or harder or harsher on payments,’’ the company’s posture ‘‘may violate general Permanente had failed to pay. said John Moseman, a vice president of the quality of care standards.’’ Eventually, each of the insurers gave in to Maryland company. Even then Blue Cross held its ground, so in protests and paid the bulk of the charges, Often, doctors and patients create their April the MIA issued an ultimatum: Failure which erased the customers’ debts, but not own headaches by filling out forms incor- to pay would result in a formal order against their resentment. rectly or ignoring the rules. the company ‘‘and administrative pen- For a growing number of consumers, it has One woman had about $9,000 of maternity alties.’’ become a familiar test: exasperating rounds charges rejected last year because she didn’t Finally, in late June—more than a year of letters, phone calls and time spent on get the required ‘‘precertification’’ for the and half after the disputed treatment hold; empty corporate assurances, mysteri- birth of her child, said Dora Crouse, whose ended—Blue Cross paid $1,303.25. ous delays and bewildering rebuffs—all in the job is to troubleshoot claims problems for In the case of Rhoades and her out-of-net- course of getting a health insurance com- clients of JEMM Group Insurance Inc., a Sil- work anesthesiologist, the insurer reversed pany to pay what they contend it should ver Spring insurance broker. When JEMM in- itself without argument. have paid in the first place. tervened, the woman’s preferred provider or- ‘‘We would agree with Mrs. Rhoades’s posi- ‘‘There is general misery in all dealings,’’ ganization agreed to pay the bills. tion that she could not at the time of the de- Maryland Insurance Commissioner Steven B. In contrast, no one blames Bonnie Emmert livery as the question . . . ‘Are you [a pre- Larsen said. of Grant Junction, Colo., for her woes, but it ferred provider] or are you not?’’ Moseman Though some insurance companies, such as took several months and the involvement of said. Kaiser Permanente, acknowledged lapses in state regulators to resolve them. Though the nation’s angst over medical service, others, such as CareFirst Inc., say While undergoing chemotherapy and radi- claims is hard to measure, signs of it abound: they pay the vast majority of claims without ation this year for breast cancer, Emmert Fast-growing Oxford Health Plans Inc. of a hitch. said she spent much of her time listening to Norwalk, Conn., developed what it envi- Conflicts between health insurers and pa- the music on her insurer’s customer service sioned as a state-of-the-art computer sys- tients are hardly a new phenomenon, but the line, faxing and mailing multiple copies of tem—and then watched it malfunction on a upheaval in the nation’s health care system the same paperwork, and fending off de- grand scale. Doctors, hospitals and regu- in recent years has raised the level of frus- mands by her hospital and doctors for pay- lators complained about a mountain of un- tration. The managed care revolution, which ment of charges dating back as far as Decem- paid medical bills. To make amends, the promised to simplify billing for consumers, ber. A nurse by profession, Emmert said she company had advanced $203 million to health instead has spawned bureaucratic rules and has been living off savings while sidelined by care providers as of Dec. 31 as it attempted procedures so complex that they have con- her illness. to plow through the backlog. founded even the latest computer systems— Provident American Life and Health Insur- After Aetna Inc. merged with U.S. not to mention human beings. ance Co., based in Norristown, Pa., was in- Healthcare, the amount of time it took to August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks E1565 company to process medical claims doubled terest to late claim payments as required by consideration the bill (H.R. 4276) making ap- last year, according to one analyst. The com- law. propriations for the Department of Com- pany says performance has since rebounded. Kaiser said its problems got much worse merce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and What had been 44 claims-processing centers last year, after the period covered by the re- related agencies for the fiscal year ending across the country were consolidated at view. The February 1997 takeover of Humana September 30, 1999, and for other purposes. about 25 locations, and the number of em- Group Health Inc., ‘‘crashed our little sys- ployees handling claims was reduced by tem’’ said Bernard J. Tyson, president of more than one-fifth. Employees with 15 years Kaiser’s Central East Division. ‘‘We don’t Mrs. MORELLA. Mr. Chairman, I rise in op- of experience were replaced by people with have . . . the right infrastructure and infor- position to the amendment offered by my less than a year’s experience, said R. Max mation systems to manage now a big piece of friend from Maryland. Gould, Aetna U.S. Healthcare’s head of cus- our business.’’ tomer service. The company plans to complete a major My friend and neighbor Mr. BARTLETT ar- In a series of audits of Colorado health in- upgrade next spring. In the meantime, it gues that it is actually the U.N. which owes us surers, the state Division of Insurance has fired the outside contractor that had been money. Nothing could be further from the cited widespread problems related to pay- handling its claims and switched to a better truth. The figures which he cites from the GAO ment of claims, among other shortcomings. internal system, officials said. ‘‘Clean’’ The regulatory agency this year assessed claims, which are claims that don’t raise include costs of non-U.N. peacekeeping oper- fines against PacifiCare of Colorado Inc., questions, were being processed in an aver- ations undertaken by the United States in our HMO Colorado Inc., Blue Cross Blue Shield of age of 26.7 days during June, compared with own national interest, such as the Gulf War Colorado and Gem Insurance Co. about 50 days at one point last year. and our operations in Bosnia and Haiti, as well Gem, which tripled enrollment in three Trebach’s most severely delayed bills ‘‘fell years and accumulated a backlog of 106,000 in some black hole,’’ spokeswoman Darlene as Somalia. unpaid claims, said in June that its low Frank said. Every living former Secretary of State op- prices ‘‘led to . . . poor customer service.’’ For Trebach, a social worker in the Fairfax When Prudential moved processing of County public schools, a final indignity was poses the Bartlett amendment, including many Washington area claims to Jackson- the doctors’ warning that a ‘‘warrant in James Baker, Alexander Haig, George ville, Fla., in the spring of 1997 ‘‘initially debt’’ might be ‘‘delivered to your home by a Schultz, and Henry Kissinger. This is hardly a there was some conversion disruption,’’ Pru- Sheriff.’’ bunch of free-spending, bleeding-heart liberals dential spokeswoman Peggy Frank Lyle ‘‘This would be so frightening for my chil- out to hand over U.S. sovereignty. They sup- said. The company was compressing 40 dren,’’ said Trebach’s wife, Loretta claims-processing sites and 28 member-serv- DiGennaro. port U.N. funding not only because it is a legal ices sites nationwide into four. Consumers ignore payment demands at obligation, but because it serves our national It’s ‘‘very difficult when you have that their peril, as a clerk in a Washington elec- interest in contributing to global peace, pros- many new people to train,’’ Lyle said. trical supply business recently discovered. In April, Maryland’s hospitals filed a co- Long after his insurer had rejected a series perity and security, and because it serves our ordinated complaint with the state insur- of 1995 and 1996 hospitals bills—so much later humanitarian interests in assisting refugees, ance commissioner alleging health plans that the insurer can’t document the reason— improving human rights, and establishing the were systematically denying payment for the hospital turned them over to a collection rule of law. Our continued failure to honor our medically necessary care after the care had agency, according to Crouse at the JEMM in- obligations threatens our interests by threaten- been delivered. surance brokerage. United Healthcare, though not singled out Now, under a court order, the clerk’s wages ing the U.N.'s financial and political viability. for criticism, showed the highest level of de- are being garnisheed to pay the debt. Many of us recognize the need for U.N. re- nied claims, according to Maryland Hospital Association data. The percentage of hospital f form. But these efforts are hampered, not helped, by the current U.N. financial problem. days for which it initially refused payment DEPARTMENTS OF COMMERCE, rose to 14.6 percent in 1997—more than one in JUSTICE, AND STATE, AND JUDI- We have been trying to reduce our U.N. budg- seven—from 4.4 percent in 1996, the associa- et share, but negotiations ended last year tion reported. CIARY, AND RELATED AGENCIES ‘‘When we find the care is not appropriate, APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 1999 when other members would not agree to pay we deny [payment for] the hospital day,’’ more until the U.S. paid at least its current ob- United Healthcare Vice President Sharon SPEECH OF ligated share. As the former Secretaries have Pavlos said. noted, ``without a U.S. commitment to pay Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of the Mid- HON. CONSTANCE A. MORELLA Atlantic States Inc., also know as Kaiser OF MARYLAND arrears . . . U.S. efforts to consolidate and Permanente, in June paid $117,000 to settle IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES advance U.N. reforms and reduce U.S. as- an array of potential violations cited by the Tuesday, August 4, 1998 sessments are not going to succeed.'' Virginia Bureau of Insurance. For example, more than one-fifth of the The House in Committee of the Whole I urge a ``no'' vote on the Bartlett amend- time, a review found, Kaiser failed to add in- House on the State of the Union had under ment. E1566 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — Extensions of Remarks August 5, 1998 SENATE COMMITTEE MEETINGS on Monday and Wednesday of each SEPTEMBER 10 Title IV of Senate Resolution 4, week. 9:30 a.m. agreed to by the Senate on February 4, Meetings scheduled for Thursday, Commerce, Science, and Transportation 1977, calls for establishment of a sys- August 6, 1998, may be found in the Communications Subcommittee tem for a computerized schedule of all Daily Digest of today’s RECORD. To hold hearings on S. 2365, to promote meetings and hearings of Senate com- competition and privatization in sat- mittees, subcommittees, joint commit- MEETINGS SCHEDULED ellite communications. tees, and committees of conference. SR–253 AUGUST 7 This title requires all such committees OCTOBER 6 to notify the Office of the Senate Daily 9:30 a.m. Digest—designated by the Rules Com- Joint Economic 9:30 a.m. mittee—of the time, place, and purpose To hold hearings on the employment-un- Veterans’ Affairs To hold joint hearings with the House of the meetings, when scheduled, and employment situation for July, 1998. 1334 Longworth Building Committee on Veterans Affairs on the any cancellations or changes in the legislative recommendations of the meetings as they occur. SEPTEMBER 2 American Legion. As an additional procedure along 9:30 a.m. 345 Cannon Buildin with the computerization of this infor- Commerce, Science, and Transportation mation, the Office of the Senate Daily To hold hearings to examine the impact Digest will prepare this information for of United States satellite technology printing in the Extensions of Remarks transfer to China. section of the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD SR–253 Wednesday, August 5, 1998 Daily Digest

HIGHLIGHTS The House passed H.R. 4276, Commerce, Justice, State Appropriations. House Committees ordered reported 23 sundry measures. Senate Chamber Action Committee Meetings Senate was not in session today. It will next meet No committee meetings were held. at 12 noon on Monday, August 31, 1998. h House of Representatives Committee Expenses: The House agreed to H. Res. Chamber Action 506, providing amounts for further expenses of the Bills Introduced: 16 public bills, H.R. 4401–4416; Committee on Standards of Official Conduct in the and 4 resolutions, H. Con. Res. 318–321, were in- second session of the One Hundred Fifth Congress. troduced. Pages H7289±90 Page H7184 Reports Filed: Reports were filed today as follows: Commerce, Justice, State Appropriations: The H.R. 1042, to amend the Illinois and Michigan House passed H.R. 4276, making appropriations for Canal Heritage Corridor Act of 1984 to extend the the Departments of Commerce, Justice, and State, Illinois and Michigan Canal Heritage Corridor Com- the Judiciary, and related agencies for the fiscal year mission, amended (H. Rept. 105–676); ending September 30, 1999 by yea and nay vote of H.R. 2000, to amend the Alaska Native Claims 225 yeas to 203 nays, Roll No. 402). Settlement Act to make certain clarifications to the Pages H7184±H7288 land bank protection provisions, amended (H. Rept. Rejected the Obey motion to recommit the bill to 105–677); the Committee on Appropriations. Page H7287 H.R. 2993, to provide for the collection of fees for Agreed To:The Talent amendment that increases the making of motion pictures, television produc- funding for the Small Business Investment Program tions, and sound tracks in National Park System and by $7.090 million (agreed to by a recorded vote of National Wildlife Refuge System units, amended 312 ayes to 114 noes, Roll No. 393). Pages H7215±16 (H. Rept. 105–678); and The Gilchrest amendment numbered 24 printed in the Congressional Record that strikes sec. 210 H. Res. 517, providing for consideration of H.R. that specifies the exclusive jurisdiction of Alabama, 4380, making appropriations for the government of Louisiana, and Mississippi over fish in the Gulf of the District of Columbia and other activities charge- Mexico within 9 miles of the coast of the state; able in whole or in part against revenues of said Dis- Pages H7225±26 trict for the fiscal year ending September 30, 1999 The Conyers amendment that includes an inde- (H. Rept. 105–679). Page H7289 pendent counsel appointed under title 28, United Speaker Pro Tempore: Read a letter from the States Code, in the provisions of Title VIII, Citizens Speaker wherein he designated Representative Peter- Protection, cited as the ‘‘Citizens Protection Act of son of Pennsylvania to act as Speaker pro tempore 1998’’ (agreed to by a recorded vote of 249 ayes to for today. Page H7181 182 noes, Roll No. 396); Pages H7229±43 D901 D902 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — DAILY DIGEST August 5, 1998 The Kolbe amendment numbered 19 printed in The Stearns amendment that sought to strike the Congressional Record that prohibits any funds to $109.2 million in funding for payment of arrearages be used to implement or enforce Executive Order to meet obligations of membership in the United 13083 (titled ‘‘Federalism’’ and dated May 14, 1998) Nations and to pay assessed expenses of international (agreed to by a recorded vote of 417 ayes to 2 noes, peacekeeping activities (rejected by a recorded vote Roll No. 399); Pages H7247±55, H7263±64 of 165 ayes to 261 noes, Roll No. 394); The Saxton amendment that prohibits any funds Pages H7216±18, H7224 to be used by the United States to intervene against The Callahan amendment that sought to clarify a claim for attachment in aid of execution of prop- that each of the States of Alabama, Louisiana, and erty of terrorism sponsoring states by those injured Mississippi has exclusive fishery management author- or killed in acts of terrorism; Pages H7267±68 ity over all fish in the Gulf of Mexico within 3 The Holden amendment that transfers Schuylkill leagues of the coast of that State, effective July 1, County, Pennsylvania from the eastern judicial dis- 1999 (rejected by a recorded vote of 141 ayes to 283 trict of Pennsylvania to the middle judicial district; noes, Roll No. 395). Pages H7219±24, H7224±25 and Pages H7268±69 The Hutchinson amendment numbered 11 printed The McIntosh amendment that prohibits any in the Congressional Record that sought to strike funds to be used to implement the Memorandum of title VIII, Citizens Protection, cited as the ‘‘Citizens Understanding Relating to the Treaty Between the Protection Act of 1998’’ (rejected by a recorded vote US and the USSR on the Limitation of Anti-Ballistic of 82 ayes to 345 noes, Roll No. 397); Missile Systems entered into by the United States, Pages H7226±47, H7262±63 Russia, Kazakhstan, Belarus, and Ukraine (agreed to The Hefley amendment that sought to prohibit by a recorded vote of 240 ayes to 188 noes, Roll No. any funds to be used to implement or enforce Execu- 400). Pages H7272±77, H7285±86 tive Order 13087 of May 28, 1998 (rejected by a re- Rejected: corded vote of 176 ayes to 252 noes, Roll No. 398); The Mollohan amendment that sought to strike Pages H7256±61, H7263 Bureau of the Census language that fences half of the The Kucinich amendment numbered 49 printed FY 1999 appropriation for the decennial census until in the Congressional Record that sought to prohibit legislation releasing the funds is enacted; facilitates any funds to be used for the filing of a complaint the resolution of legal issues surrounding the census; in any legal action brought under specified sections and uses the National Academy of Sciences to resolve of the NAFTA Implementation Act or the Uruguay statistical issues of census methodology (rejected by Round Agreements Act (rejected by a recorded vote a recorded vote of 201 ayes to 227 noes, Roll No. of 200 ayes to 228 noes, Roll No. 401). 388); Pages H7185±H7213 Pages H7277±85, H7286 The Pallone amendment numbered 44 printed in Withdrawn: the Congressional Record that sought to increase The Callahan amendment that sought to reduce funding for non-point source pollution control by $8 million (rejected by a recorded vote of 158 ayes to funding for the National Marine Fisheries Service by $29 million; and Pages H7218±19 267 noes, Roll No. 389); Page H7213 The Engel amendment that sought to increase The Stearns amendment that sought to prohibit funding for the Public Telecommunications Facilities internet gambling. Pages H7269±72 Planning (PTFP) program by $5 million (rejected by Bipartisan Campaign Integrity Act: Agreed by a recorded vote of 168 ayes to 259 noes, Roll No. unanimous consent that during further consideration 390); Pages H7213±14 of H.R. 2183, Bipartisan Campaign Integrity Act, The Royce amendment numbered 15 printed in pursuant to H. Res. 442, no further amendment the Congressional Record that sought to delete the shall be in order except the following amendments Advanced Technology Program (ATP) funding of in the nature of a substitute printed in the Congres- $180.2 million (rejected by a recorded vote of 137 sional Record: No. 15 offered by Representative ayes to 291 noes, Roll No. 391); Pages H7214±15 Tierney; No. 7 offered by Representative Farr; No. The Bartlett amendment numbered 3 printed in 5 offered by Representative Doolittle; No. 4 offered the Congressional Record that sought to strike fund- by Representative Obey; and No. 8 offered by Rep- ing for payment of arrearages to meet obligations of resentative Hutchinson; and that the amendments membership in the United Nations, and to pay as- shall be debatable for a period not to exceed 40 min- sessed expenses of international peacekeeping activi- utes, equally divided and controlled, except for the ties (rejected by a recorded vote of 151 ayes to 279 Hutchinson amendment which shall be debatable for noes, Roll No. 392); Page H7215 60 minutes. Pages H7287, H7288 August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — DAILY DIGEST D903 Amendments: Amendments ordered printed pursu- HUMAN RIGHTS IN CHINA ant to the rule appear on pages H7290–94. Committee on International Relations: Subcommittee on Quorum Calls—Votes: One yea and nay vote and International Operations and Human Rights contin- fourteen recorded votes developed during the pro- ued meetings on Human Rights in China—Day 2. ceedings of the House today and appear on pages REGIONAL CONFLICT: COLOMBIA’S H7212–13, H7213, H7213–14, H7214–15, H7215, INSURGENCY AND PROSPECT FOR H7215–16, H7224, H7224–25, H7242–43, PEACEFUL RESOLUTION H7262–63, H7263, H7263–64, H7285–86, H7286, and H7287–88. There were no quorum calls. Committee on International Relations: Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere held a hearing on Regional Adjournment: The House met at 10:00 a.m. and Conflict: Colombia’s Insurgency and Prospects for a adjourned at 12:15 a.m. on Thursday, August 6. Peaceful Resolution. Testimony was heard from pub- lic witnesses. Committee Meetings MISCELLANEOUS MEASURES FOOD STAMP VERIFICATION ACT Committee on the Judiciary: Ordered reported amended Committee on Agriculture: Subcommittee on Depart- the following bills: H.R. 3789, Class Action Juris- ment Operations, Nutrition, and Foreign Agriculture diction Act of 1998; H.R. 218, Community Protec- held a hearing on H.R. 4366, Food Stamp Verifica- tion Act of 1997; and H.R. 3607, National Youth tion Act of 1998. Testimony was heard from Robert Crime Prevention Demonstration Act. E. Robertson, Associate Director, Food and Agri- MISCELLANEOUS MEASURES culture Issues, Resources, Community and Economic Development Division, GAO; and Shirley Watkins, Committee on Resources: Ordered reported the following Under Secretary, Food and Nutrition Services, bills: H.R. 1467, amended, to provide for the con- tinuance of oil and gas operations pursuant to certain USDA. existing leases in the Wayne National Forest; H.R. FINANCIAL CONTRACT NETTING 1481, amended, Great Lakes Fish and Wildlife Res- IMPROVEMENT ACT; FINANCIAL toration Act of 1997; S. 1693, amended, Vision INFORMATION PRIVACY ACT 2020 National Parks Restoration Act; S. 1695, Sand Committee on Banking and Financial Services: Ordered Creek Massacre National Historic Site Preservation reported the following bills; H.R. 4393, Financial Act of 1998; H.R. 2108, amended, Dutch John Fed- Contract Netting Improvement Act of 1998; and eral Property Disposition and Assistance Act of H.R. 4321, amended, Financial Information Privacy 1997; H.R. 2756, amended, Kake Tribal Corpora- Act of 1998. tion Land Exchange Act; H.R. 3056, amended, to provide for the preservation and sustainability of the MISCELLANEOUS MEASURES; COMMITTEE family farm through the transfer of responsibility for BUSINESS operation and maintenance of the Flathead Indian Ir- Committee on Commerce: Ordered reported amended the rigation project; H.R. 3381, amended, Gallatin Land following bills: H.R. 3844, Wireless Communica- Consolidation Act of 1998; H.R. 3687, amended, to tions and Public Safety Act of 1998; H.R. 4017, En- authorize prepayment of amounts due under a water ergy Conservation Reauthorization Act of 1998; and reclamation project contract for the Canadian River H.R. 4382, Mammography Quality Standards Reau- Project, Texas; H.R. 3878, to subject certain re- thorization Act of 1998. served mineral interests of the operation of the Min- The Committee also approved pending Committee eral Leasing Act; H.R. 3972, to amend the Outer business. Continental Shelf Lands Act to prohibit the Secretary of the Interior from charging State and local govern- PRISON INDUSTRY ment agencies for certain uses of the sand, gravel, Committee on Education and the Workforce: Subcommit- and shell resources of the outer Continental Shelf; tee on Oversight and Investigations held a hearing H.R. 4023, amended, to provide for the conveyance on Prison Industry: Effects on Inmates, Law-Abiding of the Forest Service property in Kern County, Cali- Workers, and Business. Testimony was heard from fornia, in exchange for county lands suitable for in- Representatives Collins, Kennedy of Rhode Island, clusion in Sequoia National Forest; H.R. 4166, to and Frank of Massachusetts; and public witnesses. amend the Idaho Admission Act regarding the sale or lease of school land; H.R. 4313, to amend the COMMITTEE BUSINESS Revised Organic Act of the Virgin Islands to provide Committee on House Oversight: Met and approved pend- that the number of members on the legislature of ing Committee business. the Virgin Islands and the number of such members D904 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — DAILY DIGEST August 5, 1998 constituting a quorum shall be determined by the INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION’S laws of the Virgin Islands; and H.R. 4389, amended, PROBLEMS AND SOLUTIONS to provide for the conveyance of various reclamation Committee on Science: Held an oversight hearing on the project facilities to local water authorities. White House Perspective on the International Space DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA APPROPRIATIONS Station’s Problems and Solutions. Testimony was heard from Jacob Lew, Acting Director, OMB; Dun- Committee on Rules: The Committee granted, by voice can Moore, Associate Director, Technology, Office of vote, an open rule on H.R. 4380, making appropria- Science and Technology Policy; and Daniel S. tions for the government of the District of Columbia Goldin, Administrator, NASA. and other activities chargeable in whole or in part against revenues of said District for the fiscal year MOTOR CARRIER ECONOMIC REGULATORY ending September 30, 1999 providing one hour of ISSUES general debate equally divided between the chairman Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure: Sub- and ranking minority member of the Committee on committee on Surface Transportation held a hearing Appropriations. The rule waives points of order on Motor Carrier Economic Regulatory Issues. Testi- against consideration of the bill for failure to comply mony was heard from Representatives Boehlert and with clause 7 of rule XXI (requiring relevant printed Goss; Kenneth R. Wykle, Administrator, Federal hearings and reports to be available for three-days Highway Administration, Department of Transpor- prior to the consideration of a general appropriations tation; Shirley F. Sarna, Assistant Attorney General bill), section 306 (prohibiting consideration of legis- in Charge, Consumer Frauds and Protections Bureau, lation within the Budget Committee’s jurisdiction, Office of the Attorney General, State of New York; unless reported by the Budget Committee) and sec- and public witnesses. tion 401(a) (prohibiting consideration of legislation, as reported, providing new contract, borrowing or GARNISHMENT OF BENEFITS credit authority that is not limited to the amounts Committee on Veterans’ Affairs: Held a hearing on the provided in appropriation acts) of the Congressional garnishment of benefits paid to veterans for child Budget Act. The rule waives points of order against support and other court-ordered family obligations. provisions in the bill for failure to comply with Testimony was heard from John H. Thompson, Act- clause 2 of rule XXI (prohibiting unauthorized or ing General Counsel, Department of Veterans Af- legislative provisions in a general appropriations bill) fairs; Lt. Gen. Normand G. Lezy, USAF, Deputy As- and clause 6 of rule XXI (prohibiting reappropri- sistant Secretary, Military Personnel Policy, Depart- ations in a general appropriations bill) except as ment of Defense; representatives of veterans associa- specified by the rule. The rule provides that amend- tions and organizations; and public witnesses. ments printed in the Rules Committee report may IRAQ be offered only a Member designated in the report, may be offered only at the appropriate point in the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence: Met in execu- reading of the bill, shall be considered as read, shall tive session to hold a hearing on Iraq. Testimony be debatable for the time specified in the report was heard from departmental witnesses. equally divided and controlled by the proponent and f an opponent, shall not be subject to amendment, and shall not be subject to a demand for a division COMMITTEE MEETINGS FOR THURSDAY, of the question in the House or in the Committee AUGUST 6, 1998 of the Whole. The rule waives all points of order (Committee meetings are open unless otherwise indicated) against the amendments printed in the Rules Com- Senate mittee report. The rule accords priority in recogni- tion to those amendments that are pre-printed in the No meetings are scheduled. Congressional Record. The rule allows the Chairman NOTICE of the Committee of the Whole to postpone recorded For a listing of Senate Committee meetings sched- votes and to reduce to five minutes the voting time uled ahead, see page E1566 in today’s Record. on any postponed question, provided that the voting time on the first in any series of questions is not less House than 15 minutes. Finally, the rule provides one mo- Committee on Agriculture, to consider H.R. 4149, Forest tion to recommit, with or without instructions. Tes- Service Cost Reduction and Fiscal Accountability Act of timony was heard from Representatives Taylor of 1998, 10 a.m., 1300 Longworth. North Carolina, Davis of Virginia, Tiahrt, Bilbray, Committee on Banking and Financial Services, Subcommit- Moran of Virginia and Norton. tee on Housing and Community Opportunity, to mark August 5, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — DAILY DIGEST D905 up the following bills: H.R. 3899, American Home- Valley Airport Public Lands Transfer Act; H.R. 3746, to ownership Act of 1998; and Sections 301 and 303 of authorize the addition of the Paoli Battlefield site in Mal- H.R. 3865, American Community Renewal Act of 1998, vern, Pennsylvania, to the Valley Forge National Histori- 10 a.m., 2128 Rayburn. cal Park; H.R. 3883, to revise the boundary of the Abra- Committee on Commerce, Subcommittee on Oversight and ham Lincoln Birthplace National Historic Site to include Investigations, hearing on the Environmental Protection Knob Creek Farm; H.R. 3910, Automobile National Agency’s Title VI Interim Guidance and Alternative State Heritage Area Act of 1998; H.R. 3950, Otay Mountain Approaches, 10 a.m., 2322 Rayburn. Wilderness Act of 1998; H.R. 3963, to establish terms Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade, and and conditions under which the Secretary of the Interior Consumer Protection, to mark up H.R. 3888, Anti-slam- shall convey leaseholds in certain properties around Can- ming Amendments Act, 10:30 a.m., 2123 Rayburn. yon Ferry Reservoir; H.R. 3981, to modify the bound- Committee on Education and the Workforce, Subcommittee aries of the George Washington Birthplace National on Oversight and Investigations, hearing on American Monument; H.R. 4109, Gateway Visitor Center Author- Worker Project: Review of the Garment Industry Proviso, ization Act of 1998; H.R. 4141, to amend the Act au- 10 a.m., 2175 Rayburn. thorizing the establishment of the Chattahoochee River Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, to con- National Recreation Area to modify the boundaries of the sider issuance of a Contempt of Congress citation to At- Area, and to provide for the protection of lands, waters, torney General Janet Reno, 10 a.m., 2154 Rayburn. and natural, cultural, and scenic resources within the na- Subcommittee on Government Management, Informa- tional recreation area; H.R. 4144, Cumberland Island tion, and Technology, hearing on Title II of H.R. 4244, Preservation Act; H.R. 4211, to establish the Tuskegee Federal Procurement System Performance Measurement Airmen National Historic Site, in association with the and Acquisition Workforce Training Act of 1998; fol- Tuskegee University, in the State of Alabama; H.R. lowed by markup of H.R. 3921, Federal Financial Assist- 4158, National Park Enhancement and Protection Act; ance Management Improvement Act of 1998, 2 p.m., H.R. 4287, Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monu- 2247 Rayburn. ment Boundary Adjustments Act; H.R. 4289, to provide Committee on International Relations, hearing on Heirless for the purchase by the Secretary of the Interior of the Property Issues of the Holocaust, 10 a.m., 2172 Rayburn; Wilcox ranch in Eastern Utah for management as wildlife and to mark up the following measures: H.R. 4038, to make available to the Ukrainian Museum and Archives habitat; and H.R. 4182, to establish the Little Rock Cen- the USIA television program ‘‘Window on America’’; tral High School National Historic Site in the State of H.R. 633, to amend the Foreign Service Act of 1980 to Arkansas, 10 a.m., 1324 Longworth. provide that the annuities of certain special agents and se- Committee on Science, Subcommittee on Technology, curity personnel of the Department of State be computed oversight hearing on Technology Development at FAA: in the same way as applies generally with respect to Fed- Computer and Information Technology Challenges of the eral law enforcement officers H. Con. Res. 185, express- 21st Century, 10 a.m., 2318 Rayburn. ing the sense of the Congress on the occasion of the 50th Committee on Small Business, hearing on how project anniversary of the signing of the Universal Declaration of labor agreements on public construction projects are neg- Human Rights and recommitting the United States to atively affecting women and minority-owned businesses, the principles expressed in the Universal Declaration; and 10 a.m., 2360 Rayburn. H.R. 4309, Torture Victims Relief Act of 1998, 3 p.m., Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, Sub- H–139 Capitol. committee on Aviation, hearing on H.R. 1846, to pro- Committee on the Judiciary, Subcommittee on the Con- vide for the immediate application of certain orders relat- stitution, to mark up H.R. 4019, Religious Liberty Pro- ing to the amendment, modification, suspension, or rev- tection Act of 1998, 2:30 p.m., 2141 Rayburn. ocation of certificates under chapter 447 of title 49, Subcommittee on Crime, oversight hearing on drug di- United States Code, 9:30 a.m., 2167 Rayburn. version investigations by the United States Drug Enforce- Subcommittee on Water Resources and Environment, ment Administration, 9:30 a.m., 2237 Rayburn. hearing on Beaches and Oceans legislation, 2 p.m., 2167 Committee on Resources, Subcommittee on National Parks Rayburn. and Public Lands, to mark up the following bills: H.R. Committee on Ways and Means, Subcommittee on Health, 576, to direct the Secretary of the Interior to undertake hearing on Medicare’s Home Health Benefits, 10 a.m., the necessary feasibility studies regarding the establish- 1100 Longworth. ment of certain new units of the National Parks System Subcommittee on Oversight, to consider reports on in the State of Hawaii; H.R. 2125, to authorize appro- Y2K Computer Problems and Tax Law Complexity, 2 priations for the Coastal Heritage Trail Route in New p.m., 1129 Longworth. Jersey; H.R. 2800, Battle of Midway National Memorial Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, executive, to Study Act; H.R. 2970, National Historic Lighthouse consider pending Committee business, 2 p.m., and, exec- Preservation Act of 1997; H.R. 4230, El Porto Adminis- utive, a briefing on Korean Peninsula, 3 p.m., H–405 trative Site Land Exchange Act; H.R. 3705, The Ivanpah Capitol. D906 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — DAILY DIGEST August 5, 1998

Next Meeting of the SENATE Next Meeting of the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 12 noon, Monday, August 31 10 a.m., Thursday, August 6

Senate Chamber House Chamber Program for Monday: After the transaction of any Program for Thursday: Consideration of H.R. 2183, Bi- morning business (not to extend beyond 1 p.m.), Senate partisan Campaign Integrity Act (complete consideration); may consider any cleared executive or legislative business. Consideration of H.R. 3892, English Language Fluency Act (modified open rule, 1 hour of general debate); and Consideration of H.R. 4380, District of Columbia Ap- propriations Act, 1999 (open rule, 1 hour of general de- bate).

Extension of Remarks, as inserted in this issue

HOUSE Lucas, Frank D., Okla., E1555 Rahall, Nick J., II, West Va., E1552 McCollum, Bill, Fla., E1561 Riggs, Frank, Calif., E1551 Ackerman, Gary L., N.Y., E1558 McDermott, Jim, Wash., E1553, E1563 Ryun, Jim, Kans., E1558 Conyers, John, Jr., Mich., E1561 McGovern, James P., Mass., E1547 Sanders, Bernard, Vt., E1559 Costello, Jerry F., Ill., E1555 Markey, Edward J., Mass., E1554 Schaffer, Bob, Colo., E1547 Deutsch, Peter, Fla., E1561 Mica, John L., Fla., E1547 Serrano, Jose´ E., N.Y., E1563 Dixon, Julian C., Calif., E1557 Millender-McDonald, Juanita, Calif., E1548 Sessions, Pete, Tex., E1562 Emerson, Jo Ann, Mo., E1563 Mink, Patsy T., Hawaii, E1562 Stark, Fortney Pete, Calif., E1550 Filner, Bob, Calif., E1554 Morella, Constance A., Md., E1549, E1565 Thurman, Karen L., Fla., E1560 Forbes, Michael P., N.Y., E1552 Norton, Eleanor Holmes, D.C., E1547, E1548 Torres, Esteban Edward, Calif., E1549 Gilman, Benjamin A., N.Y., E1555 Norwood, Charlie, Ga., E1549 Towns, Edolphus, N.Y., E1553 Greenwood, James C., Pa., E1558 Oberstar, James L., Minn., E1553 Traficant, James A., Jr., Ohio, E1553 Herger, Wally, Calif., E1554 Olver, John W., Mass., E1551 Underwood, Robert A., Guam, E1552, E1556 Hilleary, Van, Tenn., E1556 Pallone, Frank, Jr., N.J., E1562 Upton, Fred, Mich., E1559 Johnson, Nancy L., Conn., E1548 Paul, Ron, Tex., E1561 Weygand, Robert A., R.I., E1547 Kanjorski, Paul E., Pa., E1557, E1558 Pickering, Charles W. ‘‘Chip’’, Miss., E1558 LaFalce, John J., N.Y., E1550 Porter, John Edward, Ill., E1557

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