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Houston Asian American Archive Chao Center for Asian Studies, Rice University Interviewee: Bao Ngoc Pham Interviewers: Angela Hui, Mei Leebron Date/Time of Interview: July 19, 2019 Transcribed by: Angela Hui, Mei Leebron (July 21, 2019) Edited by: Tiffany Sloan (September 14, 2019) Audio Track Time: 53:40 Background: Mr. Bao Ngoc Pham was born in Saigon, Vietnam in 1957. His father was in the South Vietnamese Air Force, and his mother was a homemaker. In 1975, shortly before the Fall of Saigon, Mr. Pham and his family evacuated Vietnam, eventually relocating to a refugee camp in Pennsylvania before moving to San Antonio. Mr. Pham earned a BBA in accounting from San Antonio College and then received a CPA certificate, working as an accountant for some time before going to the University of Oklahoma law school on a minority scholarship. In addition to being a lawyer, Mr. Pham is now the president of VIETV and VIET Radio networks and the CEO of V247, a retail electricity provider. He and his wife have two children, Brianna and Brian. Setting: This interview was conducted on July 19, 2019 at Mr. Bao Ngoc Pham’s office on Bellaire Boulevard. Mr. Pham discussed his family, career, and legacy. The interview lasted about fifty-three minutes. Key: BP: Bao Ngoc Pham AH: Angela Hui ML: Mei Leebron —: speech cuts off; abrupt stop …: speech trails off, pause Italics: emphasis [Brackets]: Actions [laughs, sighs, etc.] (?): Unclear word or phrase Transcript: AH: Today’s date is July 19, 2019 at 9:40 am. We’re here with the Houston Asian American Archive housed at Rice University. Um, and we’re conducting an interview with Mr. Bao Ngoc Pham. I’m Angela Hui. ML: My name is Mei Leebron. AH: So, our first question is, um, Mr. Pham, when and where were you born? BP: I was born in, uh, Vietnam. Uh, the year, I believe, 1957. AH: Um, so in what part of Vietnam did you grow up? North or South? Urban or rural? BP: South Vietnam. Uh, I was born actually in Saigon, Vietnam. So it’s the uh, that’s the South Vietnam. AH: Um, so what kind of family and community were you born into? Did you have siblings? Um, what was your relationship with them like? BP: It—it’s um, I consider it was a big family. I have uh, five siblings, um, so the family has six. I’m—I am the oldest. I have two sisters and three brothers. AH: Um, how about your parents and their occupations? BP: My father was in the uh Vietnamese—the South Vietnamese Air Force and my mom was a housewife. And that’s typical of um, uh, Vietnamese family or most of Asian family. I am—it, it—that’s um, it, it—that’s correct. The husband is the main source of, um, income in the house and the wife, the spouse usually stay at home. Um, that was um, like, fifty years ago. Now I believe it’s not like that anymore but that was, uh, when I was born. AH: And do you know how your parents met? BP: Uh, no. I did not know. But I, I um, I heard. I’m not sure that true or not but it—it was arranged marriage, was arranged through my grandparents. AH: Oh. Um, and were you close with your grandparents and older generations? BP: Yes, yes. Um, it’s um, like I said, it’s typical. Um, in—in the family you have three generations, uh, living together in one room. AH: Um, so where did you attend school throughout your childhood and what kind of school was it? BP: It was a, a high school when I was in Vietnam. And I believe I was, uh, I finished my, my high school and then at that time um, the Communist took over the country and we had to, uh, leave Vietnam. AH: And what was that experience like for you? BP: It’s [sighs] for my part, uh, it wasn’t bad because my father was in the Air Force so we were able to evacuate, uh, prior to the uh, the North Vietnamese the—the Communist took over the country. We left the co—the South Vietnam about um, few days. I think uh, if I’m not mistaken, it was like on the twenty- fifth or twenty-sixth of April 1975. AH: So, growing up, were there, um, American soldiers around that you would encounter or not yet? BP: Yes, because uh, my father was in the Air Force and we live in more like a—a camp, um, in um, in uh, Saigon. So, every day we, we encounter, um, American soldiers every day. And um, that was, um, that was good. Uh, uh, I took some English classes and I have a American teacher. I believe he was a soldier at that time. AH: Mhm. Um, and earlier on, um, do you know how your family was affected during the French colonial era? BP: That was I—I don’t because um, I think that was way before my parent time. Uh, I uh, I believe that was ended in the fifty...? 1950—1940s, I’m not very sure. I’m not good with history. So, but I think that was prior. I maybe—I—I’m not sure. AH: Mhm. So, growing up, um, did you have any—were you raised with any particular religious views, um, and did religion play a role in your everyday life? BP: I was um, born um, my—my parents um, well, my mom is Buddhist. My um, my father is, I believe he’s, he’s Buddhist but if I remember correctly, my grandfather, uh, was Buddhist. My grandmom was uh, Catholic. So, when, um, when my grandfather married my grandmom, he had to convert, uh, to Catholic. So, the family more like, um, they—they pretty much um, my, my, my grandparents pretty much have open view but they send me to a Catholic school. Um, so that was um, great. AH: What was it like to go to a Catholic school, um, not necessarily being Catholic yourself? BP: It’s um, to me, I always believe in God or believe in someone up there. That’s all. Um, so it—it was um, it was good to me and I have no problem being in a Catholic school. AH: Mhm. And so, just growing up um, in your childhood or even as a teenager, what was your impression of the political situation at the time with North and South Vietnam and the Communists and the American intervention and so on? BP: We were told about—we were taught about uh, communism, about freedom. So, at that time, I believe that um, uh, communism is not a good, um, I have to say, I, in my mind at that time, and surrounded by so many American soldiers, as well as uh, Vietnamese soldier and my father was in the Air Force. So I was taught that communism is bad. AH: Mhm. Um, and so when you left Vietnam, how—uh, what was that process like and how old were you exactly? BP: I was seventeen. My father was in the Air Force so he—he was able to, um, to bring my whole family and my relatives. So, and friends. Uh, together we—there were about thirty people. Uh, we went, uh, we were on board of an airplane took us to a small island up the country. And from there uh, American ship wa—wa—was there to bring us to the ship and took us to Philippines. AH: Mhm. And then from there you flew to— BP: And from there we went to, um, to the U.S. AH: Um, did you come to Houston or somewhere else? BP: Uh, no, at first we have to settle in a—what we call a refugee camp in Pennsylvania. And then from there, we were sponsored by, uh, a church, First Baptist Church in, um, San Antonio. Um, my father was in the Air Force so he had training in San Antonio, Lackland Air Force Base back in, I don't remember maybe in the sixties so when he escaped when we all got out of Vietnam, uh, he contacted the people in San Antonio. So, we got the—the church to sponsor our whole family to—to San Antonio. AH: Um, and so do you know other people—did you have friends at the time who weren't able to leave Vietnam? BP: Not my friends. Uh, later, um, my classmate uh—were able to escape by boat. And I'm pretty sure you heard the story of boat people. There were a lot of lot of South Vietnamese escape by boat to other countries in the Southeast Asia. And from there, they came to the U.S. So, all—years later, I believe it was 1980 or so, uh ’80, ’81. I was able to, to talk to my classmate, they came to California they came to the U.S. state (?). AH: So, before you left Vietnam, what was your view of the United States and how did that change over the years, if at all? BP: Mm. I don’t think it changed. I—when I was young, of course at seventeen we were more into other things than politics. Uh, we were told—we heard that America is a great country. I still believe America is still a great country.

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