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Official Report, Edinburgh MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT Thursday 24 June 1999 Volume 1 No 12 £5.00 Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body 2000. Applications for reproduction should be made in writing to the Copyright Unit, Her Majesty’s Stationery Office, St Clements House, 2-16 Colegate, Norwich NR3 1BQ Fax 01603 723000, which is administering the copyright on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Produced and published in Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body by The Stationery Office Ltd. Her Majesty’s Stationery Office is independent of and separate from the company now trading as The Stationery Office Ltd, which is responsible for printing and publishing Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body publications. CONTENTS Thursday 24 June 1999 Debates Col. PRIVATISATION OF PUBLIC SERVICES ........................................................................................ 724 Motion moved—[Nicola Sturgeon]. Amendment moved—[Mr McConnell]. Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP) ....................................................................................... 724 The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell).................................................................... 729 Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) ................................................................. 735 Kay Ullrich (West of Scotland) (SNP) .................................................................................. 737 Des McNulty (Clydebank and Milngavie) (Lab) ................................................................... 739 Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP) ................................................................................. 742 Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD) ..................................................................... 746 Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con)...................................................................... 751 Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab) ........................................................ 753 Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP) ....................................................................... 754 Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP) ..................................................................................... 756 Mr John McAllion (Dundee East) (Lab) ............................................................................... 758 Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP) ........................................................................... 761 Mrs Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD) ........................................................................ 762 Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP) ................................................................................. 764 Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab) ........................................................................................ 767 Ms Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (SNP) ............................................................................. 768 Mr Andy Kerr (East Kilbride) (Lab) ...................................................................................... 770 Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP).................................................................... 771 Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con) ......................................................................... 772 Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP) ............................................................................ 775 The Minister for Children and Education (Mr Sam Galbraith) ............................................. 782 BUSINESS MOTION .................................................................................................................... 787 Motion moved—[Mr McCabe]—and agreed to. QUESTION TIME ........................................................................................................................ 789 OPEN QUESTION TIME .............................................................................................................. 802 FINANCIAL ISSUES .................................................................................................................... 808 Statement—[Mr McConnell]. The Minister for Finance (Mr Jack McConnell ........................................................................ 808 THE ECONOMY ......................................................................................................................... 819 Motion moved—[Henry McLeish]—and agreed to. Amendment moved—[Mr Swinney]—and disagreed to. Amendment moved—[Mr Davidson]—and disagreed to. The Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Henry McLeish) ................................... 819 Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP) ............................................................................ 825 Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con) ................................................................ 829 Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) .......................................................... 833 George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD) .................................................................................... 835 Ms Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con) ..................................................................... 836 Dr Elaine Murray (Dumfries) (Lab) ...................................................................................... 837 Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green) ......................................................................................... 839 Ms Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab) ................................................................. 839 Mr Murray Tosh (South of Scotland) (Con) ......................................................................... 840 Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP) ............................................... 841 The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Nicol Stephen) ........................ 843 DECISION TIME ......................................................................................................................... 847 723 24 JUNE 1999 724 Scottish Parliament Privatisation of Public Services Thursday 24 June 1999 The Presiding Officer: The first item of business this morning is a debate on motion S1M- [THE PRESIDING OFFICER opened the meeting at 67, in the name of Mr Alex Salmond, on the 09:30] privatisation of public services. This debate will conclude at around 12.20 pm. The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel): Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): Before we begin this morning’s business, I will On a point of order, Mr Presiding Officer. I have complete my response to yesterday’s point of raised the matter of the procedure for Opposition order from Shona Robison, who asked about an day debates with you before. There has been emergency question that I had declined. I passed discussion about whether we should follow the the question, as a written question, with a request Westminster precedent of the Executive winding for an urgent answer. I understand that an answer up and having the last word in each debate, or was received yesterday. Is that correct? whether we should apply a different rule, similar to Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP): that applied in local authorities and elsewhere in I am not aware that I have received an answer. Do such circumstances. you know how it was communicated, Sir David? I understand that you have ruled today that the The Presiding Officer: In the normal manner, I Executive should close the debate, but I ask you dare say, but I was assured that the answer had to consider how we could examine the matter at been given yesterday. greater length and come to a conclusion. Will you assure us that today’s decision is not a precedent Shona Robison: I have checked my mail, but I for Opposition day debates—of which this is the will double-check; as far as I am aware, it has not first—but merely a convenience at this stage? arrived yet. The Presiding Officer: This is the first The Presiding Officer: Thank you very much. Opposition day debate that we have had, so we are feeling our way, as in so many other matters. In this case, I have decided that the Executive should have the last word, as is the practice at Westminster, but I have taken into account our brief discussion in the Parliamentary Bureau. I believe that the matter ought to be considered sympathetically by the Procedures Committee when it comes into being. Today’s decision should not be taken as a precedent. 09:33 Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP): This morning’s debate is extremely significant, although I see that most of my Labour colleagues and all of my Liberal Democrat colleagues take a somewhat different view. The debate is significant because the subject matter is so important, but also because this is the first opportunity for the Parliament to discuss Opposition business. As is evident in this motion, the Scottish National party is a constructive Opposition. We will criticise and oppose vigorously, where appropriate, but we will do more than that. As a party that aspires to government, we will also propose real alternatives, as we are doing today. We have chosen the topic for this morning’s debate for very good reasons. The privatisation of public services through the private finance initiative was one of the election campaign’s central issues. A substantial number—who knows, possibly even a majority—of members of this 725 24 JUNE 1999 726 Parliament oppose PFI, or at the very least have have no worries
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