BRITISH BROADCASTING CORPORATION RADIO 4
TRANSCRIPT OF “FILE ON 4” – “ACTS OF ABUSE”
CURRENT AFFAIRS GROUP
TRANSMISSION: Tuesday 6th July 2021 2000 - 2040 REPEAT: Sunday 11th July 2021 1700 - 1740
REPORTER: Livvy Haydock PRODUCER: Helen Clifton EDITOR: Carl Johnston
PROGRAMME NUMBER: 21VQ6379LT0 - 1 -
THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE BBC CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY.
“FILE ON 4”
Transmission: Tuesday 6th July 2021 Repeat: Sunday 11th July 2021
Producer: Helen Clifton Reporter: Livvy Haydock Editor: Carl Johnston
MUSIC
BETH: I now know it was sexual assault, and I know 100%. It’s taken me a long time to realise that and to say it. The effect that it had on me afterwards - not wanting to audition, wanting to leave the industry. I just felt like I wouldn’t be believed.
HAYDOCK: Sexual harassment, abuse and bullying in plain sight, widespread, but often unchallenged within our TV and film industry.
RAW: The fact that we almost can’t even go and do our job without thinking, oh gosh, if I get left in a room with somebody, is something going to happen? That shouldn’t be something we have to think about.
HAYDOCK: File on 4 has heard from hundreds in the business who say many who are bullied and abused are terrified to complain, because they’re scared of losing their jobs.
BEALE: I was pretty scared when I started talking about this. Actually, I had a real bout of anxiety about it, because I thought maybe I’m ending my career just by raising my head above the parapet. The fear is real. - 2 -
BETH: People are so frightened to say anything negative. We’re disposable. There are so many out of work actors, you’re made to feel that you can be instantly replaced.
HAYDOCK: Years after the #MeToo movement opened up a worldwide conversation about a toxic culture within the industry, there’s finally more momentum behind a campaign for change - but is it enough?
CHILDS: We need to be clear about tracking reports and make sure that serial abusers are called out. We want the industry to invest in safeguarding officers on set to ensure that their workforce are protected and supported properly
MUSIC
EXTRACT FROM BAFTA SPEECH
CLARKE: My journey in this business has been a battle at times. And as I stand here right now, I know a lot of the work I have done is not BAFTA-worthy. I think this is about the journey.
HAYDOCK: In April this year, the actor and director Noel Clarke was presented with the Outstanding British Contribution to Cinema award at the BAFTAs.
CLARKE: This is for the underrepresented. Anyone who sits at home believing that they can achieve more.
HAYDOCK: It marked a career high. Previous recipients include David Puttnam, John Hurt and Kenneth Branagh. He’d come a long way from the council estate in London’s Ladbroke Grove where he’d grown up, rising to prominence playing Mickey Smith in the Dr Who TV series on BBC One.
CLARKE: Sometimes you’ll feel like you’re not good enough. You are. And sometimes you’ll feel like you don’t deserve it. You do. [Applause]
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HAYDOCK: Noel Clarke’s jubilation though was short-lived. Even as he gave his acceptance speech, BAFTA had become aware of serious allegations about his behaviour. And less than three weeks later, the Guardian newspaper published a story in which twenty women accused him of groping, harassment and bullying.
EXTRACTS FROM NEWS BULLETINS
NEWSREADER 1: On to the actor Noel Clarke, who’s been accused of sexual harassment and bullying by twenty women who’ve worked with him in the past, all of which he strongly denies …..
NEWSREADER 2: The film and TV industry has moved rapidly to break ties with the actor, director and screenwriter Noel Clarke, after he was accused of sexual harassment and bullying …
HAYDOCK: Days later, he issued a statement saying he was ‘deeply sorry’ and was ‘seeking professional help’ but he strongly denied any sexual misconduct or criminal wrongdoing.
EXTRACT FROM NEWS BULLETIN
NEWSREADER 3: Noel Clarke has said that he vehemently denies any allegations. He has said in a statement that in a twenty-year career, I have put inclusivity and diversity at the forefront of my work and have never had a complaint against me. I intend to defend myself against these false allegations.
HAYDOCK: The Metropolitan Police have spoken to a number of women who have subsequently come forward. They are in the process of assessing the incidents that have been reported to them, to establish if any offences have been committed. The BBC says it will investigate any specific allegations it receives.
MUSIC
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HAYDOCK: Whatever the outcome of those investigations - whatever the truth - the allegations against Noel Clarke have opened up a huge conversation on the culture within the British television and film industry. This programme has heard from hundreds of industry insiders, who talk about widespread sexual harassment and bullying. Actors, producers, set designers, wardrobe staff, runners - people from almost every profession in the industry - describe an environment which can be unsafe, especially for women. File on 4 has worked with the broadcasting and entertainment union, BECTU, to gather testimony from their members on what they’ve experienced. These are their words spoken by actors.
WOMAN: Bullying, persistent badgering, being sworn at, misogynistic comments. There is no HR to report to. You cannot report incidents to some random production person and then blindly hope that the matter will be dealt with appropriately.
WOMAN 2: He started trying to pull my clothes off, and I pushed him away, and then he said, ‘If you tell anyone, I’m going to send someone over to your house to rape you.’ But when I spoke to other women in the company, they all advised me not to, and said that I’ll be the one that will be fired, because I’m not valuable and he is the writer.
WOMAN 3: I cried in the car on the way home often. I feel diminished and ashamed not to be standing up for myself. It was relentless and hideous.
MUSIC
HAYDOCK: Thirteen thousand BECTU members from both the independent sector and the BBC were approached, and more than fourteen hundred responded. That’s only just over one in ten, so it’s not a scientific survey, but it does give us a snapshot of what’s happening within the industry. 80% of respondents were freelance, but given the transient nature of the industry, that comes as no great surprise. What is shocking though, is that we received 44 reports of sexual assault and 13 reports of rape, and three out of four said they’d experienced some form of bullying, harassment or sexual abuse.
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WOMAN: I have just spent the last hour constructing a very carefully worded statement covering three separate incidences of sexual harassment and verbal abuse from male and female bosses, but even now I cannot risk sharing these horrible stories just in case it affects future work. I fell through every furlough scheme over lockdown - I absolutely have to keep working.
WOMAN 2: I was 22 and in my first television job in a television newsroom. Another female colleague warned me to be careful about sitting anywhere near one of my male reporters. Predictably enough, he pestered me for what seemed like ages. I can only describe the tone as bullying, but really horrible, sexual bullying. He did not touch me, but at one point he picked up a Mars bar and held it right in front of my face, describing in graphic detail which one of my orifices he wanted to insert it into.
HAYDOCK: Even when those affected do report what’s happened to them, it’s often the case that nothing happens. No surprise then that more than two-thirds of those who told us they’d been on the receiving end of this kind of behaviour didn’t report it. And only a quarter of those who did, saw any formal action taken.
BETH: I went to the audition, which on paper looked very legitimate. I thought I’d done a bit of research, but evidently I hadn’t done enough.
HAYDOCK: For reasons that will quickly become apparent, we’re not calling this actor by her real name. We’ll call her Beth. These are her words, but they’re spoken by somebody else.
BETH: I got there, there was supposed to be a casting director, another actor and the director, and it was just the director - the so-called director - at a building in the city. When I got into the room, he apologised for the casting director and the other actor not being there. We started to read a script, but immediately he sat on a sofa and he said, ‘Can you come and straddle me,’ and I said, ‘I’m not going to do that.’ With hindsight, I would have gotten out quicker, so that happened, and I said, no. Then I started reading. He asked me to turn away, which I did, and then he came over, he ran his hand down my back, like grabbed me underneath and whacked me on my bum. That point, I just moved and shouted at him, ‘You can’t do that, don’t ever touch me. At first I didn’t really - 6 -
BETH cont: question the fact that the other people weren’t there, but then obviously when he told me to sit on him, the alarm bells were definitely ringing. I think it’s that whole, the abuse of power, you’re going for a huge opportunity. If you don’t comply and you don’t do what they’re asking you to do, I was so concerned for other actors who may have been a bit younger or new to the industry, going in and thinking this was a huge opportunity and if they don’t comply with what he’s asking, they’re going to get blacklisted or not get the job. I now know it was sexual assault, and I know 100%. It’s taken me a long time to realise that and to say it. The effect that it had on me afterwards, not wanting to audition, wanting to leave the industry. I just felt like I wouldn’t be believed.
HAYDOCK: Beth reported the incident to Equity - the actor’s union.
BETH: So immediately, when I got outside, my first instinct was to see if there was a way I could stop other actors meeting a similar fate, because I’m pretty sure I wasn’t the only one he did it to that day. I contacted the actors’ union, Equity, and Equity said, it’s not a union production so, you know, there’s not much they can do. So, I was upset, deflated – where do I go now and who can actually prevent this man from carrying on?
HAYDOCK: Paul Fleming from Equity says more could have been done to support Beth.
FLEMING: We will take action for a member and on a production, whether it’s on a union agreement or not. If the member was expecting a follow-up call, if the member wasn’t provided with any extra context, that is a problem, because they should have understood what was being said to them and clearly that something’s gone wrong there. So, I’m very, very happy to look into that case for the member if they’re dissatisfied. It is enormously distressing if someone’s had a bad experience at work. I’m very, very happy to look into that.
HAYDOCK: Beth also contacted the two casting websites where the audition she attended was advertised. Both of them removed the listing, but on both sites it subsequently re-appeared. The Guild of Casting Directors do have a code of conduct, which states that castings should be conducted appropriately and actors should feel comfortable. - 7 -
HAYDOCK cont: However, they emphasised they are a voluntary organisation, and only have the power to hand out warnings to members or expel them from the Guild. The industry’s failure to act on many complaints has been a common theme we’ve encountered during the making of this programme. Philippa Childs is head of BECTU.
CHILDS: I mean, the industry needs to respond better quite clearly. I think the big problem for the film and TV industry is it relies so heavily on freelancers, who feel very vulnerable in terms of their careers. They have to weigh up, when they experience bad behaviour on set, whether or not they want tell people about what’s happened to them, whether they want to report, and part of that sort of consideration for them, I think, is how seriously is their report going to be taken? Do the production company have policies and procedures to deal with reports of bullying and harassment? And, most importantly, I think, as your survey shows, you know, is that going to impact their careers going forward? And that’s the biggest factor, I think, that stops freelancers from reporting this bad behaviour.
MUSIC
HAYDOCK: Concerns about bullying, harassment and abuse in the industry aren’t new. You don’t have to go back very far to be reminded of the uproar which followed dozens of sexual abuse allegations which were made against the former American film producer, Harvey Weinstein. He’s now serving a 23-year prison sentence. In 2017, the case sparked the #MeToo campaign, thousands of women coming forward with their accounts of sexual harassment and assault in the industry. Promises were made - but were they kept?
DAVIES-JONES: Reform was needed decades ago if we’re being completely honest, but we’ve seen with the #MeToo Movement, with Times Up, with Speaking Out that enough is enough.
HAYDOCK: Labour MP, Alex Davies-Jones, is on the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee and the Women and Equalities Committee.
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DAVIES-JONES: We’ve waited too long, so it needs to happen now if we’re to see any real lasting change, and for the future of the industry as well, to make people safe, we need this in place now.
HAYDOCK: Do you think the TV and film industry is capable of policing itself?
DAVIES-JONES: No. Sadly, I don’t think it is, honestly, which is why I believe we need that independence, we need that regulation, and it’s essential that it happens quickly, so that we can save potential victims and we can stop this abuse from happening. I think part of this needs to be resolved by the industry themselves and I believe this is a two- handed approach from the industry directly and Government working hand in hand, like what we’ve seen with the Domestic Abuse Commissioner’s office, with those independent roles that they oversee the industry, but then they report to Government on an ad-hoc basis. For example, they could come in front of our Select Committee, so that we could hold them to account and ask them exactly what change has happened and what support is available for victims.
MUSIC
HAYDOCK: For those who stand up to the bullying, the harassment, the abuse, those that complain and demand to be heard, the repercussions can be devastating. 60% of the respondents to our questionnaire said they didn’t report it because they were afraid of losing their jobs. Young, ambitious people on short-term contracts who are desperate to work don’t want to get a reputation for being difficult. They know they can be quickly replaced. File on 4 spoke with many of the women who said they’d been groped, harassed or bullied by Noel Clarke, but none of them were prepared to talk to us on the record. Those that had already gone public said they weren’t prepared to do so again. The stakes, they said, were too high. Philippa Childs from BECTU again.
CHILDS: I think it goes back to the freelance nature of the industry and the real power imbalances within the industry as well, which mean that it is very difficult, people feel very vulnerable and not very clear about where to go to to report.
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HAYDOCK: Steve, who’s worked in TV for two decades, has witnessed bullying over the years. When he saw a senior manager sexually assaulting a colleague, he reported it. Again, these are his words, spoken by an actor.
STEVE: This man tended to pat women on the backside as he went past. He also tended to pat women on the head, put his arms around them and grip their shoulders, that kind of thing. In their position, I would have been outraged. I wouldn’t want it to be done to me by anyone - male or female. A junior member of staff complained to my producer, who then told me. I would have felt guilty if I hadn’t done anything. There was certainly no way I could ignore it. I made a telephone call to the managing director to say that it had been reported to me and it should be stopped.
HAYDOCK: Steve did pay a high price though.
STEVE: I haven’t worked for that company again. One of the things that bothers me about the excuse I was given on this occasion, it’s just that person’s way, it’s just their manner - it doesn’t mean anything. You can excuse anything - inappropriate behaviour, sexual harassment, bullying, even physical bullying. Broadcasting is not training people to go into combat. You do not need to brutalise people in order to toughen them up and prepare them for making a programme. That’s nonsense.
HAYDOCK: For those on the receiving end, this kind of behaviour can have devastating consequences.
WOMAN: I became depressed, felt hopeless and became so disillusioned, even though I was passionate about what I did, that I felt I had no choice but to leave, which I did. It still hurts to this day, because I know I was good at my job, just for some reason my face didn’t fit anymore.
MAN: Intimidated, harassed and undermined by someone working directly above me on a small team. He also physically hit me and humiliated me in front of other male colleagues. He let on that it was due to my age and sex and potentially it was also because of my race as well, even though it wasn’t said specifically, it was very
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MAN cont: apparent. My mental health suffered a great deal several years later and I’m still recovering and rebuilding my confidence.
MUSIC
HAYDOCK: The consensus is now growing on what does need to change. The idea of an independent regulator - funded by the industry, but appointed and backed by the Government - is now widely supported. The British Film Institute told File on 4 the responsibility is with employers, who should include safeguarding clauses within their contracts. But BECTU says other things need to happen first, starting with a central reporting tool that closely monitors the behaviour of repeat offenders.
CHILDS: We need to be clear about tracking reports. And from our perspective, I mean, one of the things that I’d like to see BECTU do is to have a central place for people to be able to report, so that we can keep a track on what’s going on and make sure that serial abusers are called out. The industry needs to do three things. First of all, in order to stamp out this behaviour at the root of the problem, then we want the industry to invest in safeguarding officers on set, so that there is somebody there that people can report to where it happens. I think they’ve got a responsibility to do that, to ensure that their workforce are protected. And then, secondly, we want the industry to have more of a clear set of policies and procedures, so that people do know what they need to do if they want to report and feel confident that action will be taken. And thirdly, I guess if all else fails, then I think there is an argument that says there should be some sort of external body that can look at very serious cases, maybe historic cases and try to resolve them where the industry has failed to do so.
HAYDOCK: Meanwhile, those who are frustrated with what they regard as the industry’s slow response to safeguarding its workers, are taking matters into their own hands. Actor Helen Raw founded the British Actors Network - an organisation which says it’s dedicated to outing predators and bullies. She’s collated a huge database of testimonies from industry insiders who have experienced abuse. She says she even heard about the allegations against Noel Clarke before they were published. And she’s having an impact, working alongside investigative journalists.
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RAW: I think the fact that, you know, a wee lassie in Glasgow with a computer is the one that is getting everybody coming to her to speak out, that already tells you that something is not right, it’s still not enough and the system is still broken.
HAYDOCK: Did you ever imagine you’d get such a response?
RAW: No, no. Absolutely overwhelmed. What does prey on me is that I know the strength and the worry that some people will have had in sending me the email.
HAYDOCK: What have been the most shocking that you’ve read?
RAW: There’s been quite a few rape stories and very serious sexual assaults that have come through and the fact that these happened predominantly to women, although there are men reporting as well, and the fact that these incidents happened either in their workplace or around their workplace or by somebody who was superior to them from the workplace, whether it was, you know, a drama school or a theatre or, you know, a film on set or whatever, the fact that, you know, we almost can’t even go and do our job without thinking, oh gosh, if I get left in a room with somebody, is something going to happen? That shouldn’t be something we have to think about. There are some days I can only get through maybe two emails because they’ve been so even traumatic for me to read, never mind how the person felt, you know, writing it out, and I have to kind of, you know, take a couple of days away from, from reading the stories - that’s how bad some of them are.
ACTUALITY AT MEETING
BEALE: Hello!
WOMEN: Hi Meriel.
HAYDOCK: Lovely to meet you. I’m Livvy.
BEALE: Hi Livvy.
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HAYDOCK: These kinds of stories are all too familiar to TV producer, Meriel Beale. She’s the anti-bullying and harassment officer at BECTU - a job she volunteered for after she was sexually assaulted on location.
BEALE: It was very quick, it happened at the bar and I just had my breast groped and it was a big joke in front of everybody, and I had to make a decision in my head, even though I felt miserable, do I just laugh this off? It was supposed to be a joke, but it still wasn’t acceptable. But anyway, I just decided to laugh it off.
HAYDOCK: How did you actually feel when that happened?
BEALE: I felt really confused and really miserable, but also I kind of dismissed it all pretty quickly, because I knew that there was no point in talking about it to anybody. It’s normal.
HAYDOCK: In the wake of the Noel Clarke allegations, Meriel wrote an open letter, calling on the industry to change.
EXTRACT FROM LETTER
BEALE: It’s just his way or you should be flattered. We’re asked, are you sure you want that man to lose his job? We are asked, who did you sleep with to get that job? We’re told to lighten up and to take a joke. How does a young female runner take the joke of being asked for a gangbang by her senior male producer in a room where she’s the only woman? How does a woman carry on trying …
HAYDOCK: The letter got over two thousand signatories.
EXTRACT FROM LETTER
BEALE: It is a constant terrifying tightrope. We are exhausted and we are angry.
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HAYDOCK: Like Helen, Meriel has been inundated with people sharing their stories and their frustrations.
BEALE: When I experienced bullying and gas-lighting myself, I followed what I was told was the procedure, which was to talk to the person involved, which got me nowhere and to talk to HR, who were paid by that person, so that got me nowhere. I talked to the broadcaster as well, who were very sympathetic, but ultimately nothing could really happen. Again, it’s one of those things where I thought to myself, well, this is a short term contract so this is it, but it was at that point that I thought, this is nonsense, there needs to be clearer ways ahead and there needs to be better ways of dealing with it.
MUSIC
HAYDOCK: So, what specific support services are currently in place for those who have been abused? Well, apparently, quite a lot. The Film and TV charity run a bullying pathway service, as well as a reporting tool which allows people to record incidents. They also have their own 24/7 support hotline. The charity say, since March, 10% of the hotline calls have been about bullying and harassment, but they couldn’t give us any more data. BECTU have 27 officials working on bullying and harassment cases, but again, couldn’t give us a breakdown of how many complaints they’ve been able to resolve. In addition, many broadcasters have their own bullying and harassment phone lines. But Paul Fleming from Equity says the sheer number of services add to a fragmented picture. The union closed its own bullying and harassment phonelines at the end of last year.
FLEMING: It is the view of the union that we’re not helping by adding to a proliferation of confusing helplines. There are currently nine helplines operated by engagers, most of which our members are, frankly, unaware of, receiving different bits of information from different pools of people. What would be effective is a single reporting line and people to be able to get access to the trade union official that can help them as quickly as possible.
EXTRACT FROM YOUTUBE VIDEO
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WATSON: These principles are important because, up until recently, there were no guidelines, which I found shocking.
HAYDOCK: In 2018, actress Emma Watson launched the British Film Institute’s zero-tolerance guidance.
WATSON: They understand the subtleties of the hierarchy that works on a film set and what it’s like to work really long, strange, unsociable hours.
HAYDOCK: The guidance recommended two support workers per set to handle issues like harassment and abuse - but that still hasn’t happened.
ACTUALITY ON FILM SET
MAN: Okay, here we go.
WOMAN: Rolling sound. Quiet on set, please.
MAN: First positions.
HAYDOCK: Despite widespread concerns that the industry is moving too slow to protect its workforce, there are some signs it is waking up to the challenge.
WOMAN: Scene 1, take 4 [clapperboard].
MAN: And action.
HAYDOCK: The use of intimacy co-ordinators on TV and film sets is growing, although it isn’t yet mandatory. They were introduced to protect the wellbeing of actors involved in sex scenes and other intimate moments, to ensure nobody is overstepping the mark and that pre-agreed boundaries aren’t breached. Elle McAlpine is an intimacy coordinator who has worked on high profile dramas including ‘It’s a Sin’ and ‘Bridgerton’.
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MCALPINE: It’s a work in progress. I think anyone that is trying to disrupt something or to at least challenge the status quo, it’s a pretty established industry, it’s quite archaic in some aspects, but I do think that there is absolutely movement to work with the industry in the way it is, to evolve it into what we want and hope it to be. They are not here to take over; they are here to make sure everybody is safe.
HAYDOCK: Intimacy coordinators may go some way to protecting the actors who work in the industry, but there’s still clearly a long way to go before everyone can feel safe. There’s a belief that the industry first needs to examine what’s happening at grass roots - in the drama schools which produce the talent of the future.
ACTUALITY OF REHEARSAL
HAYDOCK: The London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art is the oldest specialist drama school in the UK. It has produced a steady stream of world-class thespians - its alumni include Benedict Cumberbatch, Richard Harris, Keira Knightly and Donald Sutherland. Sarah Frankcom is its director.
FRANKCOM: I think actually really the issue here is that drama schools feed an industry that has had very poor practice, and actually, I think drama schools have, up until very recently, trained students to fit in within industry and not to challenge an industry. The work that we’ve been doing at LAMDA since I joined has been all about empowering students to call out things that they don’t feel comfortable with and also to give them a real strong sense of best practice in industry so, you know, from working with intimacy coordinators to actually bringing in artists and actors who are challenging and dismantling and choosing to work in different ways as role models.
HAYDOCK: One of the problems, she says, is that students who do find their way through the doors of prestigious schools like hers, are so grateful, they’re reluctant to call out bad behaviour.
FRANKCOM: We’ve had more applications this year than we’ve ever had, and, you know, I think that’s part of the problem actually, that it’s very, very difficult to get into a drama school. We have almost 5,000 people trying to win one of a very few places, - 16 -
FRANKCOM cont: and I think there’s a kind of sense that you’re incredibly privileged to get a place and that you come in feeling grateful for the fact that you’ve got through and you’ve got a place.
HAYDOCK: Danielle Lautier secured a place at the Poor School, a now defunct drama school in Kings Cross, London.
LAUTIER: It was really hard, because it was like a four-day audition, and I worked really, really hard, I worked my arse off, but I actually did, yeah, I did get in after that, and I was pleased. I was pleased because I thought, right, this is it, you know.
HAYDOCK: But it didn’t take long for Danielle’s joy to fade. She says one of her teachers was abusive.
LAUTIER: You were just living in fear all the time, because you were so controlled and you were so scared of getting thrown off all the time. And he would get so angry and he would throw things around and he would call you really bad things and he would use obscenities and he was so aggressive, and it was just the way he was and you would never know what mood he was in. We were in a Shakespeare class and he just came up and he just grabbed my breast, and the thing is, it wasn’t even a big deal. I had my clothes on. If someone in the street came up to me and grabbed my breast, I’d punch them in the face because it’s not acceptable. But at the time, we were so used to him just controlling us, you would rather him put his arms round you because he wasn’t throwing something at you or being so aggressive or nasty to you or humiliating you, you’d rather him do that. Affection was something you would want from him.
HAYDOCK: According to Sarah Frankcom, these approaches - these uneven and unhealthy relationships between students and teacher - still exist in the industry.
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FRANKCOM: I think it’s about recognising that collaboration between students and staff is a much more positive and equal way to work. We need to move beyond the power that certain teachers have had, that has in some instances led to abuse of power.
HAYDOCK: Dame Heather Rabbatts is from Time’s Up UK - a charity which was founded in the wake of the #MeToo movement. It’s calling for an independent authority to police the industry, paid for by production companies.
RABBATTS: Well, ultimately it’ll be the industry who decides that it wants this body set up and we will discuss with the industry its structure and its governance etcetera, so that it’s hugely important that it is independent and that everybody coming forward will have confidence in it. So, that’s why this requires many conversations, it requires us to build a consensus. But Time’s Up with our partners, whether it’s the BFI or BAFTA or Equity, BECTU, that’s what we’ve been doing for the last three years. We work with our partners to achieve change. It’s only by working together we’ll achieve change.
HAYDOCK: And many people have told us that the industry is fragmented by nature and as a result the mechanisms to report abuse, harassment and bullying are ineffective. Would you agree?
RABBATTS: I think, I wouldn’t agree that the mechanisms have been ineffective. I mean, we’ve seen people come forward, we’ve seen the fact that certain individuals have been suspended and, you know, lost their careers in certain instances. I think the guidance, as I’ve said, has become much more part of the language of the sector than it ever used to be, but this is a sector that’s run on freelancers. Productions come and then they go, so by its very nature it’s very amorphous. It is, as you say, fragmented. I think this latest proposal, which we will now be talking with the industry about this new standards authority, is again an attempt to put our arms round that fragmentation, so that everybody is clear about, you know, what are the standards that are accepted, what happens if you experience a breach?
HAYDOCK: Culture Minister Caroline Dinenage, has called the issue of bullying and harassment within the creative industries ‘deeply concerning’. Last - 18 -
HAYDOCK cont: week, she met with industry representatives to discuss ways of improving the support in place for those facing bullying, harassment and discrimination. They made a series of commitments to create joined-up codes of conduct, ensure that independent advice and support was available and to monitor whether or not it works - with the Creative Industries Federation taking the lead and reporting back to Government. Meanwhile, reports of bullying, harassment and sexual abuse - many historical - continue to grow. Helen Raw expects them to keep on coming.
RAW: Do you know, I don’t think it’s even as big as the tip of the iceberg, I think it’s the tip of the tip of the iceberg. I think there’s a lot more insidious behaviour that’s out there that we don’t yet know about, and I would just like to think that those individuals who have been affected, they feel that they can come to me or they can go to somebody and speak about it. We can’t fix the past, but if we can stop this happening going forward, that’s what we’ve got to aim for.
MUSIC
BETH: It’s great to have guidelines and to be signposted somewhere, but unless there’s action, no, I don’t think it’s enough. There’s more that could be done. It’s a start, but it’s a slow start. You know, #MeToo was more than six years ago. At the moment, if you’re reporting to someone within the industry, they may know the person. You’ve no way of being able to do it anonymously. There’s no reports collated of the same name cropping up over and over again. It’s time for that. I have chosen to be anonymous because I still worry that I’m going to be blacklisted from the industry. I still have that fear that if I give my name then they’re going to see me as someone that is, I don’t know, I just feel that my career will be affected by speaking out about it. People are so frightened to say anything negative. People are so worried because we’re disposable. There are so many out of work actors, you’re made to feel that you can be instantly replaced.
WOMAN: I think things have to change. If there’s been all this conversation, and then nothing does move on, then that’s a sad indictment about the industry. And it all starts with leadership.
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BEALE: I was pretty scared when I started talking about this, actually I had a real bout of anxiety about it because I thought maybe I’m ending my career just by raising my head above the parapet. The fear is real.