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May 14, 2019 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · File No. 94-CQ-50872CM ·2· · · · · · · · · · · · ONTARIO ·3· · · · · · · ·SUPERIOR COURT OF JUSTICE ·4· · B E T W E E N: ·5· · ·THE CHIPPEWAS OF SAUGEEN FIRST NATION, and THE · · · · · · ·CHIPPEWAS OF NAWASH FIRST NATION ·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Plaintiffs · · · · · · · · · · · · · - and - ·7· · · · · · THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF CANADA, · · · HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN IN RIGHT OF ONTARIO, THE ·8· · · · ·CORPORATION OF THE COUNTY OF GREY, THE · · · · · CORPORATION OF THE COUNTY OF BRUCE, THE ·9· · · CORPORATION OF THE MUNICIPALITY OF NORTHERN · · · BRUCE PENINSULA, THE CORPORATION OF THE TOWN OF 10· · ·SOUTH BRUCE PENINSULA, THE CORPORATION OF THE · · · TOWN OF SAUGEEN SHORES, and THE CORPORATION OF 11· · · · · · THE TOWNSHIP OF GEORGIAN BLUFFS · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Defendants 12 13· · · · · · · · · · · · Court File No. 03-CV-261134CM1 14· · A N D· ·B E T W E E N: 15· · ·CHIPPEWAS OF NAWASH UNCEDED FIRST NATION and · · · · · · · · · · SAUGEEN FIRST NATION 16· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Plaintiffs · · · · · · · · · · · · · - and - 17· ·THE, ATTORNEY GENERAL, OF CANADA and HER MAJESTY · · · · · · · ·THE QUEEN IN RIGHT OF ONTARIO 18· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Defendants 19 20· · · · · · · · · · · · -------- 21· · ---· This is VOLUME 6/DAY 6 of the of the trial · · · proceedings in the above-noted matter, being 22· · held at the James Mason Memorial Culture and · · · Recreation Centre, 47 French Bay Road, 23· · Southampton, Ontario, on the 14th day of May · · · 2019. 24· · · · · · · · · · · ·---------- · · · B E F O R E:· The Honourable Justice 25· · · · · · · · · Wendy M. Matheson Page 529 ·1· ·A P P E A R A N C E S : ·2· ·H.W. Roger Townshend, Esq.,· for the Plaintiffs, ·3· ·& Benjamin Brookwell, Esq.,· The Chippewas of ·4· ·& Cathy Guirguis, Esq.,· · · Saugeen First ·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Nation, and the ·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Chippewas of Nawash ·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · First Nation. ·8 ·9· ·Michael Beggs, Esq.,· · · · ·for the Defendant, 10· ·& Michael McCulloch, Esq.,· ·Attorney General 11· ·& Barry Ennis, Esq.,· · · · ·of Canada. 12 13· ·David Feliciant, Esq.,· · · ·for the Defendant, 14· ·& Jennifer Le Pan, Esq.,· · ·Her Majesty the 15· ·& Richard Ogden, Esq.,· · · ·Queen in Right of 16· ·& Julia McRandall, Esq.,· · ·Ontario. 17 18 19 20· ·REPORTED BY:· Helen Martineau, CSR. 21 22 23 24 25 Page 530 ·1· · · · · · · · · · · I N D E X ·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE ·3· ·WITNESS: VERNON ROOTE ·4· ·Cross-Examination by Mr. Beggs ..............533 ·5· ·Cross-Examination by Mr. Ogden ..............584 ·6· ·Re-Examination by Mr. Townshend .............603 ·7 ·8· ·WITNESS:· GARY HARRON ·9· ·Examination In-Chief by Ms. Guirguis ........608 10· ·Cross-Examination by Mr. Mculloch ...........621 11· ·Cross-Examination by Mr. Ogden ..............629 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 531 ·1· · · · · · · · · INDEX OF EXHIBITS ·2· ·NO./ DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE ·3 ·4· ·3962· ·Statement of Claim for Court· · · · · 574 ·5· · · · · File T-34-89 between Vernon ·6· · · · · Roote et al. and Howard Jones et ·7· · · · · al., Plaintiffs v. Her Majesty ·8· · · · · the Queen" ·9· ·3963· ·Document SC0044.· Statement of· · · · 575 10· · · · · Claim for Court File T-33-89, 11· · · · · between Vernon Roote et al. and 12· · · · · Howard Jones et al., Plaintiffs 13· · · · · v. Her Majesty the Queen. 14· ·3964· ·Document SC0122.· Copy of the· · · · ·580 15· · · · · Indian Act from 1927, RSC 1927, 16· · · · · chapter 98, section 141. 17· ·3965· ·Document SC0053.· copy of the· · · · ·597 18· · · · · transcript of episode 3 of "The 19· · · · · Bruce" titled "The Peaceful 20· · · · · Path", dated August 26, 2018. 21· ·3966· ·Document SC0054.· Episode 1 of· · · · 600 22· · · · · "The Bruce" titled "The Fishing 23· · · · · Chiefs", dated August 12, 2018 24 25 Page 532 ·1· · · · · · · · · INDEX OF EXHIBITS ·2· ·NO./ DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE ·3· ·3967· ·Document SC0055.· Transcript for· · · 601 ·4· · · · · Episode 2 of "The Bruce" titled ·5· · · · · "The Last Frontier", dated ·6· · · · · August 19, 2018. ·7· ·3968· ·Document SC0109.· Map prepared· · · · 620 ·8· · · · · by Mr. Ritchie showing Lot 27 ·9· · · · · Concession A. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 533 ·1· ·-- Upon commencing at 10:02 a.m. ·2· · · · · · ·THE COURT:· Mr. Beggs, how is our ·3· ·database technology this morning?· Are we all ·4· ·set? ·5· · · · · · ·MR. BEGGS:· Yes, we're all set, Your ·6· ·Honour. ·7· · · · · · ·THE COURT:· Good morning, Mr. Roote. ·8· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Morning. ·9· · · · · · ·THE COURT:· Please go ahead, sir. 10· · · · · · ·VERNON ROOTE:· Previous Sacred Eagle 11· · · · · · ·Feather Affirmation. 12· · · · · · ·CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BEGGS: 13· · · · · · ·Q.· ·Chief, Roote.· Good morning Chief 14· ·Roote.· Is it acceptable to continue to refer to 15· ·you as "Chief" although you are not currently 16· ·sitting as Chief? 17· · · · · · ·A.· ·Yes, it's appropriate because I 18· ·held the position. 19· · · · · · ·Q.· ·Thank you.· Now, Chief Roote. A 20· ·few weeks ago we were welcomed to the community 21· ·of Neyaashiinigmiing and -- or Nawash, and I 22· ·wondered if there's a -- is there an 23· ·Anishinaabemowin name for this community or is 24· ·"Saugeen" how we should be referring to it? 25· · · · · · ·A.· ·The name that likely would have Page 534 ·1· ·been carried on, if spelling had of stayed the ·2· ·same, likely would have been Saugenaung [ph]. ·3· ·And unfortunately over the years and when ·4· ·looking at the history books you find a lot of ·5· ·different spelling changes over the year.· And ·6· ·so today everybody basically goes with the ·7· ·terminology of "Saugeen" because that's the way ·8· ·it's spelled. ·9· · · · · · ·Q.· ·Okay, thank you. 10· · · · · · ·Now, yesterday you mentioned that 11· ·James Nawash was one of your ancestors? 12· · · · · · ·A.· ·Yes. 13· · · · · · ·Q.· ·And that was through your 14· ·grandfather, Roy Livingston Nawash? 15· · · · · · ·A.· ·Yes. 16· · · · · · ·Q.· ·Was that the same James Nawash 17· ·who put his clan symbol on Treaty 72? 18· · · · · · ·A.· ·The signatory to the Treaty 72 19· ·was the same, yes. 20· · · · · · ·Q.· ·And was he from the Nawash 21· ·community at that time? 22· · · · · · ·A.· ·Yes, he would be, yes. 23· · · · · · ·Q.· ·I take it that the community may 24· ·be named after him, the Nawash name not the 25· ·Neyaashiinigmiing name? Page 535 ·1· · · · · · ·A.· ·According to my knowledge there ·2· ·are two different Nawashes, two different James ·3· ·Nawash; because by looking at the year ·4· ·difference you also indicate that there are two ·5· ·different individuals at the same time.· James ·6· ·D. Nawash was the one that signed the Treaty ·7· ·of -- number 72, and that would be my lineage. ·8· · · · · · ·Q.· ·And was that James Nawash a Chief ·9· ·at some point? 10· · · · · · ·A.· ·I would ask which Nawash, which 11· ·James Nawash are you now referring to? 12· · · · · · ·Q.· ·I mean the one who signed the 13· ·Treaty. 14· · · · · · ·A.· ·James D. Nawash would be the one 15· ·that would have signed this treaty, yes. 16· · · · · · ·Q.· ·And he was a Chief at some point? 17· · · · · · ·A.· ·Yes, he was.· He was Chief of the 18· ·communities that we now know, because they were 19· ·of one before. 20· · · · · · ·Q.· ·And was he also involved with 21· ·Tecumseh? 22· · · · · · ·A.· ·I would imagine he was involved 23· ·to a certain point because he was just a young 24· ·man when all of that took place in regards to 25· ·Tecumseh's War of 1812. Page 536 ·1· · · · · · ·Q.· ·So your grandfather, Roy ·2· ·Livingston Nawash, did he live at Saugeen or did ·3· ·he live at the Nawash community? ·4· · · · · · ·A.· ·No, no, he lived over here.· His ·5· ·grandfather goes back, let's see, Adam and then ·6· ·it goes back one more to I believe it's David ·7· ·and then to James D. Nawash. ·8· · · · · · ·James D. Nawash had four boys and the ·9· ·oldest boy, Louis, stayed in Neyaashiinigmiing 10· ·and the other three boys moved over to this 11· ·community. 12· · · · · · ·Q.· ·So then just because I want to 13· ·make clear to the Court and myself, when you've 14· ·referred to your activities with your 15· ·grandfather, Livingston Nawash, they've been in 16· ·the Saugeen community? 17· · · · · · ·A.· ·Yes. 18· · · · · · ·Q.· ·So, for example, when you -- when 19· ·your grandfather stopped at the Indian Agent's 20· ·house that was the Indian Agent here in Saugeen? 21· · · · · · ·A.· ·Yes, it is. 22· · · · · · ·Q.· ·Yesterday you referred to a 23· ·concept you described as the "Red Road" or 24· ·"Grandfather Teachings".· Are they the same or 25· ·are they different things? Page 537 ·1· · · · · · ·A.· ·The expression that we use in the ·2· ·English terminology of the "Red Road" means that ·3· ·we would be following the lifestyle of our ·4· ·people, in other words our way of life.· Which ·5· ·would mean that we follow the Seven Grandfather ·6· ·Teachings, we would follow the belief system of ·7· ·our people, and all of that encompasses the "Red ·8· ·Road" if it's explained into the English ·9· ·language.· And that's why it would be called the 10· ·"Red Road". 11· · · · · · ·It is definitely not a road that's 12· ·coloured red or anything like that, it's just an 13· ·expression that is used so that the English 14· ·speakers can better understand the terminology 15· ·and what we mean by "following the Red Road". 16· · · · · · ·Q.· ·Thank you. 17· · · · · · ·And is that the same path as the 18· ·Midewiwin lodge we heard about from Mr. Keeshig 19· ·or is that something different? 20· · · · · · ·A.· ·It would be similar to that, yes, 21· ·because it's the belief system of our people 22· ·that we have and had for many centuries. 23· · · · · · ·Q.· ·Thank you.· You referred this 24· ·morning to the fact that the communities were 25· ·one at one point? Page 538 ·1· · · · · · ·A.· ·Yes. ·2· · · · · · ·Q.· ·Do they still -- well, the ·3· ·Saugeen Ojibwe Nation is composed of the ·4· ·community at Saugeen and the community at ·5· ·Nawash? ·6· · · · · · ·A.· ·Yes.
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