Interview with Bernard Lee Brown

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

An Oral History Conducted by Marcus Brown

Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University

Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada.

The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

Abstract

Marcus Brown interviews his father, Bernard Lee Brown (born 1915 in New Albany, Indiana)

about his experiences living in Las Vegas, Nevada. Bernard discusses his work at various gaming properties on the Strip and in Downtown Las Vegas, owning his own shoe business, working at the Nevada Test Site, racial discrimination, the role of unions, and overall changes in

Las Vegas over time.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

Oral interview with Bernard Lee Brown. Date of interview is February 27th, 1979, approximately 8:20 P.M. Place of interview is 5229 Jarom, Las Vegas, Nevada. My name is

Marcus Brown, and the name of the project is Oral History Report for History 117. Okay,

Dad, when did you first move to Nevada?

In February, 1956.

And what was the reason for moving?

Well, I came here – I had just gotten out of business and I came here to get reestablished and to get a divorce.

What kind of business were you interested in getting into?

I wasn’t really interested in getting into business; I was getting out of one.

You were interested in getting out of the business? So, exactly what did you do?

(Unintelligible) Stand at the dealing tables and (unintelligible). The house pays them to just throw the dice or (unintelligible).

Which hotel did you work at?

I worked at the Horseshoe (unintelligible) El Rancho Vegas.

What was it like working in the hotel? I mean, was it—

You did your job and got your pay and kept your mouth shut.

What did you have to keep your mouth shut about?

Because you knew what was going on.

What was going on?

The house was cheating.

The house was – both the Horseshoe and the El Rancho were cheating?

I would prefer not to have to be repeated because I’m not ready to die yet.

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(Laughs) Well, (unintelligible) whatever, but I guess we won’t get into that too much. So what – you think that things have changed between the hotels then and the hotel now?

I think that the government surveillance is better, and the private corporations are responsive to the laws more (unintelligible) syndicate owners were, and it’s different.

Well, then here, like, that hotels have come a long way, so that stigma of the mafia or somebody illegal being in the hotels in the early beginning of Vegas is true? It was usually an underworld operation?

You had to (unintelligible).

And that’s changed now? You don’t feel it so much or is it?

It has changed so much (unintelligible).

When you were here, was Howard Hughes very active in his church in Las Vegas?

No. He came here periodically for visits, but his headquarters (unintelligible) Los Angeles.

Did you ever see him?

I saw him one time at El Rancho Vegas in 1956.

What other occupation – how long did you work as a shill?

I just worked as part time. I helped open the Baker Shoe Store on 3rd and Fremont in 1956 as assistant manager.

What kind of business, or how was business?

It was great. Show people, big opening, all the stars came in – and (unintelligible) Smith, Mary

Healy – lots of business.

So was business, in general, in Vegas really good?

Yes, it was good in 1956. And I heard about working at the Test Site, and I figured I’d go out there and work the center in that and (unintelligible) been there ever since.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

So, when you worked at the Test Site, what did you start out as?

As a radiation monitor.

And what exactly did your job entail?

Protecting people from radiation and the tests that they (unintelligible).

So you had a real active part in – they were doing above ground testing then, right?

Right.

So you had a real active part in that?

I was a team leader in the survey teams.

And what exactly did they do?

After a test was made, they’d go in and make radiation measurements and decide if it was safe for people to work or it wasn’t, and set up signs and so forth to show whether it was.

So you’d actually go to where the bomb had been blown up?

Right.

Right into it?

Well, within a few hundred yards.

Did you ever get exposed to radiation?

Many times.

And, well, did you suffer any ill effects from it back then?

Nothing, no.

You haven’t had any yet? You’ve had to actually go through, like, the decontamination?

Many times.

And what about the claims that people make today of the, that they were overexposed? You

would consider yourself overexposed?

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I would consider myself having more exposure than most people.

And do you feel that the claims they’re making against the federal government are valid?

You have no way of knowing, because maybe, like, people’s resistance to sunburn or to cold or to heat or anything else, and people may have more tolerance for it than others.

So, you spent all your time going in craters and stuff, or would you just?

It was – they weren’t craters in above ground testing like there have been underground, but I spent, through the Plumbbob series in 1957 and the Hardtack series in 1958, there 60

(unintelligible) and I was one of 14 leaders that was in the first (unintelligible).

How has the operating at the Test Site changed over the years? Is it –

Much more disciplined, much more cushions for safety, everything’s underground. There’s no atmospheric tests, much more attention to public relations. That’s about it.

Do you feel that they were necessary changes, or just advancing at the time?

I think as the technology advanced and the awareness of possible dangers became apparent that these changes just (unintelligible).

Do you feel that the Test Site had a lot to do with the economy in Las Vegas, or is it just –

Well, back in the mid ‘50s, it was significant on the economy. The tiny population of Las Vegas was in the 60,000s, and the Test Site was very important for the economy in the city. The Test

Site population – the workers there at one time got to approximately eight or nine thousand people, and in the meantime, the city, the gambling industry and the resort industry expanded, and the Test Site is not nearly as important to the economy today as it was in the mid ‘50s. The population of Las Vegas now is probably nearing 300,000 versus 60,000 at that time.

Did the hotels have a big part to do, or a lot to do with the economy?

The gambling industry did.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

Was Las Vegas known as the place to be and all that stuff?

Sin City.

Sin City?

Keep Las Vegas – bring the money.

I guess they had all kinds of sayings like that. But, okay, your only affiliation with the hotels, then, was the short time that you worked as a shill?

Right, for about three or four months.

And then you haven’t – you never had any contact with them except for gambling and stuff like that?

Right.

What – in contrast to Las Vegas back then to Las Vegas today – what significant things could you say is different?

Well, I would say then that the, while the public elected officials ostensibly ran things, it was really the casinos, you know, they had their own way of creating cheaters and people who stole from the house, people that didn’t pay their bills. And finding dead bodies in the desert was more common, perhaps, than it is now. And black ball dealers, or dealers that were taken to the counting room and (unintelligible) ‘cause they were found cheating – those things were common subjects of the grapevine in those days. And I think that’s changed a lot.

What about law enforcement, then? Was it ineffective?

I think it was run by the Strip.

They didn’t really have very much say, then – very much control on what they could do.

Big scandal in the police department in the early ‘60s, with the inferences that, publicly appointed and elected officials were really masterminded by the casino owners.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

What was that scandal?

Well, the chief of police is – I don’t remember the details and don’t know offhand – but the chief of police was involved in it.

What was his name?

I don’t care to say. It’s a matter of public record if you want to check the history books.

Okay. So, I guess that’s changed. What other kind of differences do you see?

I see more of the influences, the big corporations that are the hotel owners. I still think the gambling industry is, by whatever arrangement they have, by lease or whatever, is still owned by people who understand and know gambling. They think that, civilly, governed law enforcement agencies are more powerful now than they were then. They (unintelligible) control of the Strip. I think the recent accusations of cops, etcetera, etcetera in the case that they’re still a strong, strong overtures made to influence public officials. I’d say that all and all, it’s a well-governed – the gambling industry is a well-governed, well-regulated industry.

How do you think that opening gambling in other states is going to hurt Vegas or –

I’ve always felt that competition is healthy in any kind of business. I don’t think it’s gonna detract from Las Vegas; I think it’s gonna just make more gamblers.

Did they ever have the threat of competition in the ‘50s and the ‘60s, like, well, it’s an actuality now, but was there ever like a threat?

Well, yes, in the early ‘60s or late ‘50s, there was, before the Castro regime in Cuba, there was a big play in the big migration of gambling people to Havana to set up gambling there, but after the Castro regime came in and (unintelligible) out, most of those people came back, and it was closed up.

They were all people from Las Vegas that went, or just all over?

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

No. Many of the key people that operate those casinos were from Las Vegas.

They used to have horseracing here, didn’t they?

Yes, in the late ‘60s. There was a racetrack in the vicinity of the Hilton, Las Vegas Hilton, and

Las Vegas Country Club is now. That was the Las Vegas – I don’t remember the name of it, Las

Vegas Downs or maybe – had something to do with the J.W. Brown, I think, racetrack, or

something, and it was (unintelligible). And the racetrack was there from all during the ‘50s until

the early, probably the early 1960s.

And what happened? Did it just die out or?

It was never successful here because it was competing with gambling; the gambling population

was being divided, and I don’t think it was ever a popular sport with the casinos, and it just

gradually died out. There was a big, big racing city like the tracks at Hialeah, Churchill Downs,

or Keeneland or – it never was a famous racing, horseracing center.

How about the building boom we’re experiencing now? I mean, how was Las Vegas

growth-wise?

It’s been continuous since the mid ‘50s except from the period from about 1964 – probably 1963 to 1966 or ’67; it was vastly overbuilt. New homes, many – hundreds of ‘em were on the market that were not sold for maybe months or years after being built. At the time, there was more than

2,000 vacant apartments in Las Vegas, but that was just one period during the whole 20-year

period, which is an overbuilt situation.

Well, how would you contrast it now as compared to then?

I think builders build now when they have orders for whatever it is they’re building – buyers for single-family residents investors for apartment houses that they don’t build, and now, you advance with a hope to selling, and they only build ‘em when they have orders from people.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

What do you feel like the possibility is, I mean, how long is the building boom gonna keep

going? Or, it’s been going on since the ‘50s. Does it have to reach a crisis or?

That’s what everybody seems to think – going as long as there’s – every time they open a new

hotel and employ 3,000 people who are heads of families, that means that there’s 12,000 people

to support, and which there has to be grocery stores, shoe stores, (unintelligible), automobiles,

sales, and as long as the industry is growing and employing people, there’s gonna be growth in

the city.

So, do you think – the limiting factor would be the water supply, then, right? Or is it –

The limiting factor is (unintelligible).

Run out of valley, right?

Mm-hmm.

Well, you got married again in Las Vegas, right?

Right.

And I guess you had the experience of raising a family in two different kind of environments.

Right.

What was different about raising them in Las Vegas?

Not a great deal of difference. When first coming into Las Vegas, one got the impression it was a very cold and distant town, but very soon learned that people are anxious to accept you, but they wanted to size you up first. And you had the same here that you have in any city – there were schools, good schools, there was churches, there were people who, main idea and main dedication was raising their families, and it’s just like any other city.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

So, I guess you would say that there was practically no difference in raising a family here than raising a family someplace else?

Not a great deal of difference. And there was less of a church (unintelligible) here than there was in Washoe County. That didn’t make any great difference in raising a family.

What about the education they had to offer kids?

Well, the studies have shown that it was relatively equal to the better educational systems in the country.

Do you think that’s changed over the years, or?

Not really. I think Las Vegas do the tax structure and gambling industry, and that they have more money for education and for schools than they have in the majority of cities in the country.

How was housing and, as compared, you know, to today?

You mean the availability?

Availability and livability and price, I guess.

Availability was about the same as it is now. Price was much less – modest apartment was $90 a month, and in the mid-1950s, the upper income house would be in the range of 30 to 40 thousand; middle income would range from 12 to 25 thousand, and there were homes to people under that for lower income people.

So I guess houses were more, well, how was the wage, I mean?

Wages –

Is it all relative?

It’s all relative. When I went to work as a monitor at the Nevada Test Site in 1956, the starting hourly wage was $1.75 an hour. And compared to today, the starting rate for that same job is probably $5 to $6 an hour. So, I guess inflation has had its mark here, too.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

It has, anyplace else. What about – where did you move from when you moved to Las

Vegas?

From Texas.

So did you have a difficult time getting acclimated to the weather?

Not really. The mean temperature was about the same. The difference was the humidity. That wasn’t a great adjustment for me.

Did other people experience a hard time with it?

Yes, it’s a very arid, hot climate, and people from cooler, more humid climates have probably more problems adjusting than I did.

Do you think that the air conditioning they had back then was as good as it is now?

The air conditioning then was – 90 percent of the city was air conditioned with swamp-type coolers, and those are very effective when the humidity is very low, but as the city builds and more people are putting in lawns and sprinkling and growing trees, and raising the humidity in the city, the effectiveness of that type air conditioning became very inefficient, and by the mid-

1960s, they transitioned and made toward refrigerated air conditioning.

How about, what’s it called, bus systems and stuff like that? Were they very prevalent in the ‘50s or, I mean, how spread out was the town?

The town was very, quite compact in the early ‘60s. The bus system was more adequate, relatively, than it is now. The city now is very sprawling, chicken bird kind of pattern over much of the valley. The system, reportedly today, is not adequate. We have a great change in the general demeanor of this city. In the late ‘50s and early ‘60s, there was the ghetto on the

Westside, which was almost totally Black. Blacks were not permitted in the casinos. They had the traditional jobs as restroom attendants, and it was a very (unintelligible) employment. The

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

(unintelligible) Blacks – that’s changed by virtue of the civil rights and enforcement acts. The city’s become more integrated. I’d say that’s been a major change in the city.

Is the acceptance of –

Blacks employed in the casino and Black dealers. Blacks are allowed to stay in the hotels on the

Strip. Black entertainers stay in the hotels where they entertain, and this is a great difference from what it was in the late ‘50s and early ‘60s.

How about the Mormon influence in the town? Is it developed or decreased or risen?

It’s a strong influence, and it has been. I haven’t seen any significant change, but it hasn’t diminished.

Was it new to you when you first moved to Vegas, or –

Well, being from the South, I was a religious (unintelligible) in society, whether it be in

Tennessee or Texas, it was a different religion, and a great difference in the impact on the community.

Do you think that the Mormons run the town now, or?

I think they had a strong voice in both local and state, and some significant influence in national politics.

Were you active in local politics?

I have been, at times. I was a member of the senate committee for the Democratic Party. I’ve been less active in the last seven years.

Well, when you were active, what was it like? What were some of the things that you did or lobbied for or?

You spent time in a smoke-filled room to get your candidate elected. That’s the way politics has always been and always will be.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

Well, what were some of the campaigns that you worked for, specifically?

I would just, don’t care to divulge that.

Okay. But what, how would you say that the campaigns were run then as compared to now?

I would say that it was not a great deal of difference. There was not as much money spent. I would say that the businessmen and the hotel owners probably influenced politics really more than they do today.

Were there – I don’t know that the campaigns – what kind of platforms – they couldn’t have used the same platforms that they used today. What did the officials in the ‘50s use for platforms that they can use?

More money for schools, more money for public facilities, more law enforcement, more for the development of (unintelligible) these kinds of campaigns. They’re a great deal different than they are today.

Were you around here when the university first opened up, weren’t you?

Right.

1955, I think.

It didn’t open in 1955; at least there was no campus out on Maryland Parkway until probably in

’57 or ’58 was the first building.

Did it have a big impact in Nevada, or was it just kind of a –

No, it was the University of Las Vegas when it first opened.

It wasn’t a –

It was not a part of the state university system until some time after it opened.

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Would you say that, how is the school then as compared to now, you’re familiar with the

system out there, aren’t you?

Not really. I would say that it was more like a small town college then than it was a university.

It wasn’t really known, and just (unintelligible) kids went, right, local kids?

Right.

The basketball team and stuff like that –

There wasn’t any that I know of in the early years.

Did it play any kind of significant role in the community? Or, like, well now, you hear of quite a bit about the university.

No, there was not a significant factor in the community life at that time.

How about church, churches?

Well, I’d say that the Mormons are the most influential religious group (unintelligible) Catholics.

I don’t know that there’s any Protestant (unintelligible) dominance.

Would you say that the religion here is like a watered down version of its roots or they have to be more lenient here or?

Well, due to the fact that the gambling in the hotel and entertainment industries are part of the life here, that the churches are more lenient with respect to those types of occupations than they are in other cities. But I don’t know if otherwise there’s any more lenience or restrictions. I don’t think it’s uncommon for a gambler, a pit boss, a dealer, or a box man to be a member in the influence of church government, whereas in a place like Atlanta, George, or (unintelligible).

(Tape cuts out, ends)

Okay.

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Those would be considered sins of occupations and would not be particularly welcome in the

church (unintelligible).

Okay, well, getting back to an earlier subject, you were talking about discrimination

against the Blacks. Would you say that it was just the Blacks that were discriminated

against, or was it just?

Well—

Was it falling like that to the (unintelligible) in the south?

It was predominantly Blacks were discriminated against. There were many Latin Americans here

that were also discriminated against because they were here illegally as they are today in many

cases. But there was an overt discrimination against Blacks, where it was covert as far as the

Mexicans, Latin Americans, Cubans were concerned. And that’s where the great change has

been made.

Do you think that NCAA, or NAACP and these different, like, the civil rights movements in

the ‘60s and – had a lot to do with it, or?

It wasn’t gonna have very much to do with it. I think the Martin Luther King appearance here

and march on the Strip, Ralph Abernathy.

When did Martin Luther King – when was he here?

He was in here in the, probably mid-60s.

I wasn’t aware he had a march here.

Well, I don’t remember all the details. He was here and there was a threat of a march on the

Strip. And there was a march, but it turned out to be a peaceful march, and whether Martin

Luther King walked with ‘em or not, I don’t remember, but he was here. And Ralph Abernathy was here. I’m sure those things had a great influence on the attitude that they – the hotel people

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown very quickly saw that they could ward off, and they turned around very quickly and began to employ Blacks as dealers and as waitresses, and in all the normal occupations.

Did the Test Site experience the same thing?

(Unintelligible) the Test Site being more government-operated. Every time there was legislation that impacted our civil rights, the government responded by edict, and contract by edict more rapidly than the private business.

Well, you hear a lot now about, like in a case in college was about reverse discrimination and stuff like that. Do you think that the hotels are kinda guilty of that nowadays, as far as even women go and hiring them over male, or, and, I don’t think that was a problem back then?

Well, you don’t correct the transgressions of many generations in a decade or a year without taking some overt action to do it, when you take overt action to do something that drastically changes practice. You’re gonna get complaints, whether that be reverse discrimination or whatever it is. It suddenly is the law that women should have equal opportunity, equal earning capacity as men in the industry, and they, for years, have been behind, and today the law has changed, and in order to obey the law, you’ve got to get people equalized in earning capacity in position and stature and organization. To do that is gonna take affirmative action, and that, to me, is gonna appear like reverse discrimination, whether it is or not as America.

Well, I guess what I’m specifically mentioning is the fact that in a lot of the hotels now, you walk in ‘em and all you can see is lady dealers or –

Maybe that’s because ladies make better dealers than men. Maybe it’s because they will work for less money. I have not observed that myself. I have observed that it appears to me that on the average, that a female can handle a deck of cards with greater dexterity than can a man.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

How about labor and the emergence of the union when (unintelligible) all this started

happening?

Well, the union’s been quite strong here as long as I can remember. Unions at the Test Site were

the subject of national controversy in the early ‘60s.

What was that all about?

Because of the exorbitant demands that labor was making on the testing program because it was

a hurry up and go and slow down and quit and hurry up and go operation. That every time there was pressure from the labor unions to make greater demands, and it finally became the subject of national concern, and they had national figures in here in many, many meetings in Washington.

What were the circumstances, just briefly or generally?

The circumstances were that there were great, rushed demands to do things in connection with

the nuclear testing program, and these demands would arise and in a very short timeframe. And

the only way to get the work down was, would be demands on labor unions, and the labor unions

would set up exorbitant demands in the way of pay and hours and (unintelligible) and so forth,

and it finally got out of hand.

To, you mean what?

Meaning the national attention created the law.

What finally happened?

Well, it finally happened that there were project agreements and labor rates were stabilized and

(unintelligible) craft rates throughout the country.

What union was involved, was it?

Most of the construction crafts.

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Do you think that the unions here in Vegas, are they fair or do they do their job in

protecting the worker?

Some do, some don’t. The union is just like any other organization. Its product is – relates to the

people that manage (unintelligible).

Well, you hear about talk, like in Chicago and Alaska that some of the unions – mainly the

Teamsters unions – are real corrupt. And I don’t know, do you think that that’s?

That’s been a current talk about unions, whether it’s plumbers or Teamsters or culinary or

whatever it is, it’s continuous to emerge and will continue to emerge.

So, it’s just a thing, right? Well, you were here when Howard Hughes made his move to

Vegas?

Right.

What kind of impact did that have on the community?

Well, at the time, it was a public relations job that had been done, prior to his coming here, as

quite good. The press was behind his move to Las Vegas. The Las Vegas Sun, in particular, was

a strong, strong supporter of Hughes and everything he seemed to do. Within a couple of years

after he came here, there apparently was a breach with the Las Vegas Sun.

What kind of breach?

Well, the editorial policy changed before he (unintelligible). This seemed to a lot of people to be

irresponsible newspaper management at the Las Vegas Sun and Greenspun. He was interjecting his own private beliefs and opinion into the press, and there’s still some feeling that there was not good reporting. It was selfishly motivated press to try to get what he wanted.

Do you think that Hughes’s entrance into Vegas was good, or was it bad?

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

It was good at the time, and I don’t think it – I think it deteriorated during the time he was here. I think the Summa Corporation (unintelligible) manager of their business and do a fair job of reestablishing the credibility – strong corporate enterprise.

About, well, was there, I mean, I remember Mom talking about people who were afraid that he was gonna buy the town or – did he ever make known exactly what he was doing here, or is just basing his operations here, or?

No, not really. He at one time made a (unintelligible), and he wanted to buy the McCarran

Airport, and he would build a (unintelligible) train that he would build a supersonic airport that would be much better than turning McCarran into private use, but that never materialized.

How about, I don’t know, you just see, go down the Strip now, and you see all the building that’s going on and everything. What are your general views on that, just going to the Strip as far as the rank in the hotels and the different styles and the classes – has it improved or has it decreased as far as service goes?

Well, I think the great impact has been on the local population. I don’t think the impact on the touring public has been greatly different except the cost is greater. In the early days of Las

Vegas, the bosses of the casinos, whether they were organized crime leaders or mafia or whatnot were very concerned with their image and local population. And if business was slow, they would – the townspeople could go and they would hand comps out like mad, and it was not uncommon for people to be comped in and just, the doors open to see shows when business was slow, and that’s done away with the organization and the big corporations moving in.

(Unintelligible) He’s got a lot more organized over the years, and the profits – I guess they’re worried more about the profits than anything.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

Well, they’re worried more about – let’s face it, before the government got their – the state and

local government – got their hand on the regulation of the community, the proceeds and the receipts of the casinos – the operators in the casinos had a lot of cash to spread around that they

don’t have now. They paid taxes on what they said they wanted, not what the government

(unintelligible) that they wanted. And I’m sure that if you look at the tax revenues that come in

today versus what was coming in in the 1950s, you could see that there was obviously some kind

of skimming going on, and not a whole lot of the earnings; these casinos were being brutal. It

wasn’t being reported, so it was a skim now, and they could afford to give away dinners and free

shows and—

How about the quality of entertainment on the Strip? Has it improved, stayed the same,

or?

The stories are changed, but the (unintelligible).

How about the problem of prostitution in Las Vegas?

Well, it isn’t any worse or any different – maybe better than it’s been in 20 years, 20-odd years

I’ve been here.

Didn’t illegalization make it more predominant here than legalization – well, it was legal in

Clark County, or has it always been illegal?

It’s never been legal in Clark County since the early ‘50s. It was legal, and that was prior to my

coming here, was rumors that the incumbent sheriff at the time had the prostitution ring under his

thumb, and there was a place out on Boulder Highway called Four Mile house, I believe. It was a

sort of a production (unintelligible) prostitution thing. But that had been outlawed prior to my

coming here.

How about the crime rate? Has it leveled off or increased or decreased?

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

Well, I don’t know. I don’t think there’s any more crime than there ever was. I think there’s

more detected crime. In the early days of my being here, a lotta crime was handled by – before I

ever got to law enforcement officials.

Always handled by somebody, like a third party, right?

(Unintelligible)

How about the growth of Boulder City?

I can’t speak to that. I don’t think it’s – I think it appears significant today, but that’s a bit of an occurrence. It sorta happened within the last five years or so. Prior to that, there was no

(unintelligible).

How about North Las Vegas? Can you talk about that?

I think most North Las Vegas has been victimized by bad city management, but I think the

potential there is pretty great.

What kind of potential do you think they have?

I think they got lots of room, lots of land, lots of potential facility that should attract industry and labor base.

When you say bad management, what do you mean?

Bad city management.

By the elected city officials in North Las Vegas or?

Yes.

Do you feel like incorporating them would be a wise thing to do?

I (unintelligible) about that. The organization of government’s not important; it’s the leadership.

Do you feel that, on the whole, that the leadership has been good or bad or?

I’d say, on the whole, it’s been fairly good, but in many cases strongly biased.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

Biased in what ways?

Public officials have been influenced by the opportunities for personal gain.

How about – you’re in the real estate business now; I don’t know how much you know

about the past, but how is – I don’t understand what makes a lot of parts of Las Vegas that

are attractive now, and they weren’t back then.

For example?

Well, I don’t know, it just doesn’t seem like – I hear a lot, now, just recently, that all of a

sudden, Las Vegas is in a building boom.

That is not so; Las Vegas is not in a building boom any more than it’s been in for the last ten

years.

What would you call it then, just a growth?

I would say it’s a steady and continuous growth. It looks like a boom when you look and see

acres and acres of houses going up, but as long as there’s buyers for those houses, and as long as

the increase is not a peak on a curve – the growth of Las Vegas has been pretty constant over the

last five, six, seven years.

How about just the family life? How was it raising a family in Las Vegas, and just real

general?

I don’t know that it’s any different, I observed any great differences than anyplace else.

Well, not speaking specifically about differences, but, I mean, where you lived and what

kind of neighbors you had and stuff like that?

I don’t know that I saw any different than you would expect in any community.

Well, when you first married, did you move into a house or an apartment or?

Apartment – later rented a home and then later bought a home.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

Where did you live throughout the town?

Well, first lived in midtown on East Bonneville, and into what, there was a suburb in the middle

of Las Vegas which is down off East Bonanza on the side of 25th, and then we went to Twin

Lakes.

(Unintelligible) So, you stated that you felt like we got a decent education here in Las Vegas and everything. How about – you don’t feel like, I don’t know, people always say that this is Sin City. Did you feel like that there was a prevalent problem with drugs and stuff like that?

Not to my knowledge. I never was in on that scene, so I don’t know.

What were some, I don’t know, things that stick out in your mind about the past that happened here in Vegas, just incidents, nothing special?

Some things that have seemed, in Congress, to a smaller city is the success of the UNLV football and basketball teams. Surprised by the fact that Billy Graham had a crusade here. It sort of surprised me, the fact that the bizarre story of Howard Hughes sorta developed and

(unintelligible) here. That’s it.

How about – I don’t know whether you – the first rock concerts, you were. The Beatles – did they ever come to Vegas?

The Beatles came here in the mid-60s.

And what happened then?

The town (unintelligible) that’s where they appeared. A friend and former babysitter, Sherry

Nichols, went to a Beatles concert.

Well, can you remember what she said about it or?

No.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

I guess that was kinda – how about, oh, I don’t remember, divorce laws and the marriage

laws here? Do you think they had a lot to do with people coming here to live and stay?

Well, I think it probably had a lot with people to come here. I don’t know how much they had to

do with people staying. If you come here to get a divorce, as I did, you can leave in six weeks.

But you ended up staying, right?

Yes.

Did you come with the intention of staying, or?

No, I did not.

Just saw things would like kinda good.

Just whatever – the climate was good, the opportunities to earn money were, at that time, good, and that was just about it.

Did you get married in one of those, what are they called, factory—

No, we got married in The Little Church of the West.

Well, that has quite a history, doesn’t it?

It did have. (Unintelligible)

What kind of history do we have?

Well, a lot of people, things – people were (unintelligible) besides me.

(Laughs) Did you meet with a lot of pressure from, like, where Mom’s parents and stuff

moving to Las Vegas, having to live here in Las Vegas and (unintelligible)?

No.

Were they real—

I don’t know. I didn’t receive the pressure; she may have.

Or, if there was any, you weren’t aware it existed.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

Not as far as living in Las Vegas concerned.

How about, like, when we were kids? Did you have a lot of problem – I guess there would

never been any problem with gangs in Las Vegas, ‘cause it hasn’t been big enough, right?

I suspect it’s big enough. I don’t know why there hasn’t been gangs. I guess kids have had other

things to do.

What about, I don’t know, just a contrast – do you like it better now, or did you like it

better then, or is it just stayed the same? I guess, have you grown up with the city, or do

you like what’s happening to it?

I really don’t know that I know whether I like it better or not. I know this: In my travels when I

go to other cities and feel quite constrained of the fact that if I decide to want to go to the market

after six o’clock in the afternoon or so that it’s gonna be closed, that if you decide you want to go

around midnight or walk into a bar and have a drink or to a show or whatnot, there’s no place to

go. And I think people in Las Vegas get spoiled on the fact that it’s a 24-hour city. You go to a

place like Atlanta or Dallas or Houston and, you know, things begin to close up at six o’clock

and the city shuts down at nine o’clock, but they’re not used to that.

That’s (unintelligible) like another city, but about with Vegas versus Vegas then?

It hasn’t changed a great deal.

Just feel like it’s just kinda just moving along at a steady pace. What prompted you to get

interested in real estate?

Just, I don’t know, a need to be doing something, I guess.

Do you plan on – well, you’re close to retiring now – do you plan on staying here, your

retirement, or just taking off?

As far as I know, I don’t have any plans to take off.

UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown

You’re just planning to stay in business?

I really hadn’t thought that far ahead.

What do you think about business opportunities now for small business – you being involved in it back in the ‘50s, you said it was good. Do you think that opportunity is still there?

I think the opportunity is always there, has been, and will for people who are willing to work and want to take some risks.

You don’t think that, like, coming to Vegas, that a person would have to cope with some unique aspect of opening up a business, or is it just – I heard complaints now that it would just cost too much money to do anything.

You know, I heard those complaints 20 years ago.

So I guess that hasn’t changed either then, huh?

No.

Well, got about two minutes left on the tape. Do you want to say anything about Vegas or, I don’t know. We seemed to cover everything pretty well.

I really don’t know what to add.

Okay. That’s all we need. This concludes the interview with Bernard Lee Brown.