UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown Interview with Bernard Lee Brown An Oral History Conducted by Marcus Brown Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas 1 UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. 2 UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown Abstract Marcus Brown interviews his father, Bernard Lee Brown (born 1915 in New Albany, Indiana) about his experiences living in Las Vegas, Nevada. Bernard discusses his work at various gaming properties on the Strip and in Downtown Las Vegas, owning his own shoe business, working at the Nevada Test Site, racial discrimination, the role of unions, and overall changes in Las Vegas over time. 3 UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown Oral interview with Bernard Lee Brown. Date of interview is February 27th, 1979, approximately 8:20 P.M. Place of interview is 5229 Jarom, Las Vegas, Nevada. My name is Marcus Brown, and the name of the project is Oral History Report for History 117. Okay, Dad, when did you first move to Nevada? In February, 1956. And what was the reason for moving? Well, I came here – I had just gotten out of business and I came here to get reestablished and to get a divorce. What kind of business were you interested in getting into? I wasn’t really interested in getting into business; I was getting out of one. You were interested in getting out of the business? So, exactly what did you do? (Unintelligible) Stand at the dealing tables and (unintelligible). The house pays them to just throw the dice or (unintelligible). Which hotel did you work at? I worked at the Horseshoe (unintelligible) El Rancho Vegas. What was it like working in the hotel? I mean, was it— You did your job and got your pay and kept your mouth shut. What did you have to keep your mouth shut about? Because you knew what was going on. What was going on? The house was cheating. The house was – both the Horseshoe and the El Rancho were cheating? I would prefer not to have to be repeated because I’m not ready to die yet. 4 UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown (Laughs) Well, (unintelligible) whatever, but I guess we won’t get into that too much. So what – you think that things have changed between the hotels then and the hotel now? I think that the government surveillance is better, and the private corporations are responsive to the laws more (unintelligible) syndicate owners were, and it’s different. Well, then here, like, that hotels have come a long way, so that stigma of the mafia or somebody illegal being in the hotels in the early beginning of Vegas is true? It was usually an underworld operation? You had to (unintelligible). And that’s changed now? You don’t feel it so much or is it? It has changed so much (unintelligible). When you were here, was Howard Hughes very active in his church in Las Vegas? No. He came here periodically for visits, but his headquarters (unintelligible) Los Angeles. Did you ever see him? I saw him one time at El Rancho Vegas in 1956. What other occupation – how long did you work as a shill? I just worked as part time. I helped open the Baker Shoe Store on 3rd and Fremont in 1956 as assistant manager. What kind of business, or how was business? It was great. Show people, big opening, all the stars came in – and (unintelligible) Smith, Mary Healy – lots of business. So was business, in general, in Vegas really good? Yes, it was good in 1956. And I heard about working at the Test Site, and I figured I’d go out there and work the center in that and (unintelligible) been there ever since. 5 UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown So, when you worked at the Test Site, what did you start out as? As a radiation monitor. And what exactly did your job entail? Protecting people from radiation and the tests that they (unintelligible). So you had a real active part in – they were doing above ground testing then, right? Right. So you had a real active part in that? I was a team leader in the survey teams. And what exactly did they do? After a test was made, they’d go in and make radiation measurements and decide if it was safe for people to work or it wasn’t, and set up signs and so forth to show whether it was. So you’d actually go to where the bomb had been blown up? Right. Right into it? Well, within a few hundred yards. Did you ever get exposed to radiation? Many times. And, well, did you suffer any ill effects from it back then? Nothing, no. You haven’t had any yet? You’ve had to actually go through, like, the decontamination? Many times. And what about the claims that people make today of the, that they were overexposed? You would consider yourself overexposed? 6 UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown I would consider myself having more exposure than most people. And do you feel that the claims they’re making against the federal government are valid? You have no way of knowing, because maybe, like, people’s resistance to sunburn or to cold or to heat or anything else, and people may have more tolerance for it than others. So, you spent all your time going in craters and stuff, or would you just? It was – they weren’t craters in above ground testing like there have been underground, but I spent, through the Plumbbob series in 1957 and the Hardtack series in 1958, there 60 (unintelligible) and I was one of 14 leaders that was in the first (unintelligible). How has the operating at the Test Site changed over the years? Is it – Much more disciplined, much more cushions for safety, everything’s underground. There’s no atmospheric tests, much more attention to public relations. That’s about it. Do you feel that they were necessary changes, or just advancing at the time? I think as the technology advanced and the awareness of possible dangers became apparent that these changes just (unintelligible). Do you feel that the Test Site had a lot to do with the economy in Las Vegas, or is it just – Well, back in the mid ‘50s, it was significant on the economy. The tiny population of Las Vegas was in the 60,000s, and the Test Site was very important for the economy in the city. The Test Site population – the workers there at one time got to approximately eight or nine thousand people, and in the meantime, the city, the gambling industry and the resort industry expanded, and the Test Site is not nearly as important to the economy today as it was in the mid ‘50s. The population of Las Vegas now is probably nearing 300,000 versus 60,000 at that time. Did the hotels have a big part to do, or a lot to do with the economy? The gambling industry did. 7 UNLV University Libraries Bernard Lee Brown Was Las Vegas known as the place to be and all that stuff? Sin City. Sin City? Keep Las Vegas – bring the money. I guess they had all kinds of sayings like that. But, okay, your only affiliation with the hotels, then, was the short time that you worked as a shill? Right, for about three or four months. And then you haven’t – you never had any contact with them except for gambling and stuff like that? Right. What – in contrast to Las Vegas back then to Las Vegas today – what significant things could you say is different? Well, I would say then that the, while the public elected officials ostensibly ran things, it was really the casinos, you know, they had their own way of creating cheaters and people who stole from the house, people that didn’t pay their bills. And finding dead bodies in the desert was more common, perhaps, than it is now. And black ball dealers, or dealers that were taken to the counting room and (unintelligible) ‘cause they were found cheating – those things were common subjects of the grapevine in those days. And I think that’s changed a lot. What about law enforcement, then? Was it ineffective? I think it was run by the Strip. They didn’t really have very much say, then – very much control on what they could do. Big scandal in the police department in the early ‘60s, with the inferences that, publicly appointed and elected officials were really masterminded by the casino owners.