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Olatunji Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:38 am Post subject: Over 1000 Historic Chess Photos

Joined: 21 Dec 2003 Posts: 24 Location: Beautiful Upstate NY, by way of Philly PA Greetings Sarah Beth(Batgirl) &

All Chess History Buffs ! I recently found what I would consider a 'gold mine'. It's a site with over 1000 photos of chess masters from yesteryear. I share this with Batgirl and anyone else

chessbb/viewtopic.php?t=137 (1 of 15)4/12004 9:45:58 AM :: View topic - Over 1000 Historic Chess Photos

reading this forum because of all the many chess sites that I frequent, ChessManiac is the only one with a forum devoted to the history of the game ; and I feel fortunate that we have Batgirl as our well qualified forum host/moderator. Click HERE to view photos.

I'm guessing that Batgirl probably allready has this site bookmarked and/or many(if not all) of the photos in her current collection.

And if that wasn't enough to quench anyone's thirst for chess history, check these out also : http://chesshistory.com http://starfireproject.com http://members.tripod.com/~Mark_Weeks/Chs-hist/chs-hist.htm

Batgirl .... I hope I haven't overstepped any boundaries by posting this info here. I was just so elated to find this material, that I couldn't just keep it to myself Long Live The Masters !

Olatunji ______Chess is more than simply my pastime ...... It has become My Passion !

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Batgirl Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Over 1000 Historic Chess Photos

Olatunji wrote: I recently found what I would consider a 'gold mine'. It's a site with over 1000 photos of chess masters from yesteryear. Click HERE to view photos. Joined: 06 Dec 2003 Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina Well.... I know the Edward Winters collection very well..... umm... read this then read this discussion at my friend, Mark Weeks' About.com chess forum. It starts on message 2227.75 and continues for a half dozen or so messages.

Olatunji wrote:

I'm guessing that Batgirl probably allready has this site bookmarked and/or many(if not all) of the photos in her current collection.

Actually, I think I had 12 pictures from there.

Olatunji wrote:

The Chess History Center is a respectable place, though it's pretty limited in content.

Mark's now-defunct Chess History on the Web was, in my opinion, the best ever on the web.

com/chessbb/viewtopic.php?t=137 (3 of 15)4/18/2004 9:45:59 AM :: View topic - Over 1000 Historic Chess Photos

http://starfireproject.com contains nothing about chess that I could find.

I have a list of Chess History sites on my Links Page

Olatunji wrote:

Batgirl .... I hope I haven't overstepped any boundaries by posting this info here. I was just so elated to find this material, that I couldn't just keep it to myself Long Live The Masters !

Olatunji

Olatunji,

Hi. Thanks for the posting. The word forum comes from the Romans. In Rome and other cities in the Roman Empire, they were public places - usually with governmental, religious and merchantile buildings surrounding it - where people could gather, sort of like a commons. I think the word forum actually means an open place in latin. But the point is that it's a place where people meet as equals - meaning each has an equal right to say whatever he or she wishes - and discuss things. Since this is a forum, there are no bounds to overstep, except perhaps the bounds of decorum, but that doesn't seem to be a problem here.

Post anything and everything you want on the culture of chess here.

At any rate, I'm not here as an expert in chess history. My role as host is perhaps to guide the discussion if necessary and hopefully instill some enthusiasm if I'm capable of that.

~Batgirl

essbb/viewtopic.php?t=137 (4 of 15)4/18/2004 9:45:59 AM C View topic - Over 1000 Historic Chess Photos

notlesu2000 Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 2:37 am Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Sarah, I recall your confrontation with chess cafe . Seems they Posts: 97 were having trouble with foreign chess sites using their photos with out their permission or acknowledgement. But anyway I was in your corner on that issue. But to continue the discussion of chess photos--- Probably every tournament book written has a group photo of the contestants. Wouldn't it be great to visit a site and check out the group photo for Monte Carlo 1903 or maybe Carlsbad 1911. What a pleasant way to spend some time on the net. But I dont think such a site exist.

Certain things always caught my attention in these photos (inconsequential things). Things like---Whoa,he was a lot shorter than I thought or Man, he only had one leg.

It would be interesting to check out the group photo of the third Rosenwald tournament 1956. This is when Fischer began to slay dragons.

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Batgirl Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:50 am Post subject:

Jim,

Well, I don't want this forum to be about me, but about chess... however, I also wanted anyone who read what comments I Joined: 06 Dec 2003 Posts: 165 might have on the Chess Cafe's pretentiously-named Winter Location: North Carolina Collection to know the I have a personal problem with them that may cloud my objectivity.

It seems there should be more chess sites offering a wider variety of specialties. Unless one lived near, or could travel to, a great chess library where one could scan some of these books, finding such pictures would be quite difficult.

I'm with you in that I like group photographs. One thing about them is that you get to sometimes see players whom you might not see otherwise. But I also like natural photographs, with or without other people than the main subject.

Fischer might have put on his armor in 1956, but here's where a dragon bit back in a 1955 correspondence game (I think I read that Fischer didn't like correspondence chess and this might be why - also I failed to note where I got this game originally, so I can't cite it's source)

[Event "correspondance game"] [Site "King of Prussia Chess Club"] [Date "1955.06.27"] [Round "-"] [White "Wayne Conger"] [Black "Robert Fischer"] [Result "1-0"] [eco "E70"] 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bh4 O-O 7.

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f4 c5 8. d5 Qa5 9. Qd2 Qc7 10. Bd3 e6 11. Nb5 Qb6 12. Nxd6 { black resigns: if 12...Qxd6, then 13. e5 Qe7 14. d6 Qd7 15.exf6 Bh8 16. f5 g5 17. Bxg5 hxg5 18. Qxg5+ Kh7 19. fxe6++ } 12... Qxd6 13. e5 Qe7 14. d6 Qd7 15. exf6 Bh8 16. f5 g5 17. Bxg5 hxg5 18. Qxg5+ Kh7 19. fxe6# {black resigns} 1-0

~Batgirl

notlesu2000 Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:00 pm Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Yes the Conger-Fischer game. I read an article once about Posts: 97 tracking down Conger. This was three or four years ago. They never found Conger (he may have joined that big chess club in the sky ) but they found the chess club he belonged to and talked to some of the members who knew him.

Of course things are a changing but in those days it was rare in deed to find a 13 year old playing correspondence chess. One of Fischer's closest friends and mentor was Jack Collins of correspondence chess fame. Even he could not get Fischer interested in cc.

I've played over that game once or twice and felt Fischer resigned too early.

.com/chessbb/viewtopic.php?t=137 (7 of 15)4/18/2004 9:45:59 AM w topic - Over 1000 Historic Chess Photos

Regards Jim

Batgirl Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:13 pm Post subject:

notlesu2000 wrote:

I've played over that game once or twice and felt Fischer resigned too early. Joined: 06 Dec 2003 Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina Maybe. I never looked at it that closely. Where do you find that black has counterplay?

~Batgirl

notlesu2000 Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:58 am Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Well, after Posts: 97 12... Qxd6 13. e5 Qd8 14. d6 g5 (the knight can escape so) 15. exf6 Qxf6 16. fxg5 Qxb2 and black has a fighting chance.

There could be any number of reasons why Fischer resigned.

Maybe he heard his buddies playing stickball in the streets and wanted to join them. Maybe he ran out of postage stamps. Maybe he didn't like waiting a week or two between moves.

But I doubt if he resigned because he felt he was being crushed.

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Batgirl Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:49 pm Post subject:

12... Qxd6 13. e5 Qd8 14. d6

Joined: 06 Dec 2003 why not simply 14. exf6 Bxf6, 15. BxB QxB, hmm...16. Ne2 Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina perhaps?

14...g5 (the knight can escape so) 15. exf6 Qxf6 16. fxg5 Qxb2 and black has a fighting chance.

I'll let you judge the relative merits of the game since you're probably better qualified

There could be any number of reasons why Fischer resigned.

Maybe he heard his buddies playing stickball in the streets and wanted to join them. Maybe he ran out of postage stamps. Maybe he didn't like waiting a week or two between moves.

You realize, of course, that doesn't really sound the the Bobby Fischer we all know and love...not at age 27, not at age 13

But I doubt if he resigned because he felt he was being crushed

~Batgirl

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notlesu2000 Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:48 am Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Batgirl says "You realize, of course, that doesn't really sound the Posts: 97 the Bobby Fischer we all know and love...not at age 27, not at age 13"

I didn't know Fischer when he was 13 or 27. Jack collins did. He spent more time at Collins house that he did at home. Fischer would run over to collins house during lunch periods at school for a quick bite and a fast game. Since Fischers mother worked late at the hospital most evenings, he ate dinner at Collins home.

When Collins says on page 50 of his book "My Seven Chess Prodigies" that Fischer likes to play stickball---I believe him.

And when I suggest that he didn't like the long delay between moves---that sounds very much like Fischer.

The postage stamp comment was a poor attempt at humor but I can I viisualize Fischer saying to himself---The hell with these postage stamps, Im going to spend this money on comic books. (I read somewhere that he had a comic book collection)

Regards Jim

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Batgirl Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:37 am Post subject:

A more realistic scenario to me, though I know neither Fischer nor Jack Collins, is that Fischer fouind the he didn't particularly like correspondance chess, and maybe all the above that you

Joined: 06 Dec 2003 mentioned, but, in my scenario, Fischer was also making rash Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina moves, blitz-style. When he received move 12 in the mail, it was a move he hadn't seriously entertained. Now, he suddenly felt like a patzer and just wanted out of the game, so he resigned because no lines gave him sufficient chances.

I don't know Fischer or Jack Collins, but I never heard of Fischer taking losing lightly and I can't recall an instance of him giving up without a fight.

But I'll be the first to admit that I also believe anything's possible.

~Batgirl

notlesu2000 Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:32 am Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Batgirl, that sounds like a rational scenario to me too. Hey I Posts: 97 believe anythings possible---except maybe the 300 committee buying Willi Winters a thousand dollar bottle of wine. Or someone so passionately devoted to demon rum as Winters saying " not unless my friends get a drink too."

Best wishes, Jim

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Batgirl Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:07 pm Post subject:

Well, that's the reason I might just present a game or a quote or a vignette without comment other than my source.... because I can't always know whether it's true, or whether there

Joined: 06 Dec 2003 are mitigating circumstances or often, even knowing some of the Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina circumstances, how much of my interpretation would reflect my own personality rather than the truth.

So, much of the time, I'd rather present something and let it stand on it's own merits.

~Batgirl

notlesu2000 Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 3:08 am Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Batgirl, like everyone else, I appreciate your very knowledgeable Posts: 97 and entertaining post. I always learn something from people who love chess. keep up the good work!

Regards Jim

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Batgirl Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:10 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Jim. But let me say again that I don't want this forum to be about me. I want it to be magnet of ideas, facts and discussion of

Joined: 06 Dec 2003 chess history and culture. Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina By presenting articles, I'm hoping to invite comments - about the topic. I also look forward to corrections and illuminations. As time allows, I still want to continue archiving a history of chess and lack just a few more postings on the early modern writers, though I'm through with the actual players of the Heroic Period, as it's sometimes called. Next will come the slow, transitional period between Greco and Philidor. And after Philidor, there's a plethora of chessplayers to examine.

I'm also collecting data and plan on writing something more modern...the history of chess on the internet. Maybe there will be people with intimate knowlegde who will want to contribute. So far almost everyone has been too shy to post. But I look forward to reading anything anyone has to say.

~Batgirl

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notlesu2000 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:41 pm Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Yep, there is a wealth of information out there and eventually Posts: 97 they'll come around and share that knowledge with the rest of us. I'm looking forward to your articles.

The ingenuity of chess players never ceases to amaze me. I read about these two guys in the 1860's who lived five miles apart but played chess everyday without leaving their property.

These guys didn't have electricity, phones, homing pegeons or anything of that nature. But they did have a burning desire to play chess and they accomplished this in the following manner...

Fortunately they both lived on high ground and fortunately they both owned telescopes and by the use of flag signals they were able to play distance chess. If you want to play bad enough--- you'll find a way.

After the sucess of Fischer in 72' the uscl (united states chess league) was created. Chess was popular but there wasn't enough money to fly professional chess teams around the country so they used the telephone.

On a typical day you might have Miami playing chicago or LA playing NY. But this fizzled out after a few years. Even this system proved too expensive for chess and of course there were many arguments (no your clock is wrong---no my clock is right, you lose chump). They had some very heated discussions. I remember they had colorful names. one year the Washinton D. C. plumbers won the championship. The team picture was on the cover of chess review and one of the members had a toilet plunger in his hand! And then there was the Capablanca Memorial tournament of 1965. Cuba wanted desparately for Fischer to play but travel to

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Cuba was restricted in 1965 and Fischer was denied this opportunity to paticipate by the state dept. The Cuban government took on the financial responsibility of installing a teletype machine in the Marshall Chess Club. Fischer competed and came second to Smyslov. This unusual way of allowing Fischer to play cost the Cuban government 10,000 dollars.

Regards, Jim

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bluebikerider Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:12 pm Post subject: telegraph chess

Quote: Joined: 26 Dec 2003 Posts: 70 The ingenuity of chess players never ceases to amaze me.

Here is a memo(?) concerning a chess match that was supposed to take place by telegraph in 1946 .

To avoid copyright infringement, I uploaded it to a web page.

http://www.geocities.com/catw58/chess1946.html

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Batgirl Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:46 pm Post subject: Cuba - and other things - but mostly Cuba

Quote:

After the sucess of Fischer in 72' the uscl (united states chess league) was created. Chess was popular but there wasn't enough Joined: 06 Dec 2003 money to fly professional chess teams around the country so they Posts: 165 used the telephone. Location: North Carolina

I never heard of the USCL !

Thanks. That's sound like something new to investigate.

======

Cuba

Che Guevarra and Fidel Castro playing chess http://fire.prohosting.com/sbchess/1999chadCastroCheGuevarra.jpg

Havana, Cuba linked up by telex to the Marshall Chess Club in New York (where, incidentally, Capablanca suffered his fatal heart attack on 3-7- 42. He died the next day at Mount Sinai Hospital where, also incidentally, Lasker had died the year previous) allowing Fischer to play in the 1965 Capablanca Memorial tournament. Dr. Jose Raul Capablanca, Capa's son, transmitted the moves from Havana.

More about Cuba:

The Havana Chess Club, formed in 1885, ( Jose Raul Capablanca was born in 1888) hosted 3 world championships: 1889 (Steinitz-Chigorin), 1892 (Steinitz-Chigorin) and 1921 (Lasker-Capablanca)

Actually, the first Cuban tournament to honor Capablanca was held in 1951, but it was a one-time event. That year, Cuba issued the first postage stamp ever to feature a chessplayer - Capablanca, of course. Then in 1952, during an international tournamnet in Havana, there was a coup d'etat and the president,Carlos Prío Socorras, who sponsored the tournament was disposed by Fulgencio Batista. The players from Mexico were pulled out by their government and Juan Quesada, then the Cuban Champion, died from a heart attack. All the chess masters present

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participated in his funeral.

The first Capablanca Memorial Event was held in 1962. It's became a huge annual event.

Probably the greatest tournament ever held in Havana was the 17th Chess Olympiad of 1966.

Premier Castro took a personal interest in this tournament. He was on the Organizing Committee and showed up, along with his friend and ally, Che Guevara, for a lot of the games, kibitzing and mingling with the grandmasters. He played games against several grandmasters including Fischer and Petrosian. In one game Petrosian offered Castro a draw (more out of diplomacy than necessity) but Castro refused, preferring the real outcome to an artificial one.

There were 52 countries Out of the 68 FIDE members, 52 countries were represented. Cuba provided each team with a chauffer and a car and paid for the air expenses of every team. the USSR won the gold, the USA won the silver and the bronze went to Hungary. (There was a tie betwen Hungary and Yugoslavia. The referees decided to give the bronze medal to Hungary, but their tie-break calculations were faulty. Yugoslavia should have been awarded the bronze medal and this has never been corrected).

There was a simultaneous exhibition consisting of 6,480 boards given at the end of the tournament and as it was finishing, a torrential tropical rain finalized the event almost on cue This US chess team was the first cultural team from the US to visit Cuba since Castro took over in 1958.

As a sidebar, Mikhail Tal had been hit in the head with a bottle during a bar room fight at the onset of the tournament. He was transported to the hospital and therefore missed the first five rounds.

In December, 2002, after declining to participate in the Central- American Games in San Salvador because of concerns about the security of their athletes, Cuba decided to hold their own Olympiads and as part of it, hosted a massive chess tournament at the Plaza de la Revolucion in Havana.

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About 11,000 amateurs played 550 chess masters in a simultaneous simul breaking the world record of 10,007 games set recently by Mexico. Castro participated, playing against Cuban GM Silvino Garcia.

~Batgirl

Batgirl Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: telegraph chess/ memo

bluebikerider wrote:

Here is a memo(?) concerning a chess match that was supposed to Joined: 06 Dec 2003 take place by telegraph in 1946 . Posts: 165 Location: North Carolina To avoid copyright infringement, I uploaded it to a web page. http://www.geocities.com/catw58/chess1946.html

thanks blue,

I wish I knew where you found all this stuff.

You must really like chess history.

~Batgirl

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notlesu2000 Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:03 pm Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Bluebikerider, here is some additional info on the 1946 article. Posts: 97 The article refers to a future radio telegraph match in 1946 between USA and USSR similar to the 1945 radio match. The 1946 was not a radio match,the American team travelled to Moscow to play the Russian team.

Max Euwe was chief referee for the event and a capacity crowd of 1500 people were present at the Hall Of Collumns while another 1000 stood in adjoining foyers watching on display boards. The final score was 12.5 to 7.5 in favor of the Soviets.

The trip was financed by Maurice Wertheim, millionaire stockbroker and president of the Manhattan Chess Club.

Regards, Jim

bluebikerider

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:12 pm Post subject:

Quote: Joined: 26 Dec 2003 Posts: 70 The article refers to a future radio telegraph match in 1946 between USA and USSR similar to the 1945 radio match

Actually, I think it was referring to a match between Brtitain and the USSR.

http://www.chessgraphics.net/rr.htm

I didn't even attempt to find the info since the original atticle was so brief. But after your post, I wanted to see what I could find.

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notlesu2000 Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:22 am Post subject:

Joined: 04 Jan 2004 Yes, I just read the article and not the masthead "The New Statesman." Posts: 97 When it said this country will play a radio match with the USSR next month...How egocenreic we Americans are.

The Brits lost that match 18-6. The year before (1945) the Americans lost 15.5 to 4.5. That was in Sep. 1945. During the match the Japanese surrendered---VJ-day.

From what I've read no one expected the USSR to be such a powerhouse. We knew their first two boards Botvinnik and Keres were world class becaise of their tournament records before the war. Smyslov was relatively unknown outside of Russia when he beat Reshevesky twice on the third board 1945. Kotov and Bronstein also were not well known ourside of Russia. The world thought America would win that com/chessbb/viewtopic.php?t=137&start=15 (6 of 7)4/18/2004 9:50:39 AM w topic - Over 1000 Historic Chess Photos

match. They had won all those olympiad gold metals during the 30's.

Take care, Jim

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