A P P E A R A N C E S
The Sole Member: His Honour Judge Peter Smithwick
For the Tribunal: Mrs. Mary Laverty, SC Mr. Justin Dillon, SC Mr. Dara Hayes, BL Mr. Fintan Valentine, BL
Instructed by: Jane McKevitt Solicitor
For the Commissioner of An Garda Siochana: Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC Mr. Michael Durack, SC Mr. Gareth Baker, BL
Instructed by: Mary Cummins CSSO
For Owen Corrigan: Mr. Jim O'Callaghan, SC Mr. Darren Lehane, BL
Instructed by: Fintan Lawlor Lawlor Partners Solicitors
For Leo Colton: Mr. Paul Callan, SC Mr. Eamon Coffey, BL
Instructed by: Dermot Lavery Solicitors For Finbarr Hickey: Fionnuala O'Sullivan, BL
Instructed by: James MacGuill & Co.
For the Attorney General: Ms. Nuala Butler, SC Mr. Douglas Clarke, SC
Instructed by: CSSO
For Freddie Scappaticci: Niall Mooney, BL Pauline O'Hare
Instructed by: Michael Flanigan Solicitor
For Kevin Fulton: Mr. Neil Rafferty, QC
Instructed by: John McAtamney Solicitor
For Breen Family: Mr. John McBurney
For Buchanan Family/ Heather Currie: Ernie Waterworth McCartan Turkington Breen Solicitors NOTICE: A WORD INDEX IS PROVIDED AT THE BACK OF THIS TRANSCRIPT. THIS IS A USEFUL INDEXING SYSTEM, WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO QUICKLY SEE THE WORDS USED IN THE TRANSCRIPT, WHERE THEY OCCUR AND HOW OFTEN. EXAMPLE: - DOYLE [2] 30:28 45:17 THE WORD “DOYLE” OCCURS TWICE PAGE 30, LINE 28 PAGE 45, LINE 17 I N D E X
Witness Page No. Line No.
CHRIS RYDER
EXAMINED BY MR. VALENTINE 2 1
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. DURACK 41 19
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN 63 15
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. COFFEY 83 25
RE-EXAMINED BY MR. VALENTINE 91 8 Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 1
1 THE TRIBUNAL RESUMED ON THE 8TH OF DECEMBER, 2011,
2 AS FOLLOWS:
3
4 CHAIRMAN: Morning, ladies and gentlemen. I am sorry for
5 the late start, I can assure you it was very necessary.
6
7 MR. VALENTINE: Good morning, Chairman. Chairman, there
8 are two witnesses scheduled for today. The first of those
9 witnesses is Mr. Chris Ryder. Mr. Ryder is already in the
10 witness-box. 11
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Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 2
1 CHRIS RYDER, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED BY
2 MR. VALENTINE AS FOLLOWS:
3
4 MR. VALENTINE: I should say at the outset, Chairman, that
5 there are two aspects to Mr. Ryder's evidence which relate
6 to lines of inquiry which the Tribunal is currently
7 pursuing in its ongoing concurrent private investigation,
8 and, in those circumstances, it would be premature to hear
9 from Mr. Ryder in relation to those two aspects today, but
10 he has kindly agreed to return for a second visit to give
11 that evidence in the new year, if required.
12
13 CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
14
15 1 Q. MR. VALENTINE: Now, Mr. Ryder, I believe you are a
16 journalist with some 40 years of experience of covering
17 events in Northern Ireland. I wonder if you could just
18 outline to the Chairman your career history, so to speak?
19 A. Well, for 18 years, from about 1972, I worked for the
20 London Sunday Times. I was based in London, I spent most
21 of my time back in Belfast and Dublin. And then, after
22 that, I joined the Daily Telegraph in 1988 and I stayed
23 there until 1993, and since then I have been a freelance
24 writer. I have written about ten books about various
25 aspects of the police and military activities in Northern
26 Ireland over the years. I also served on the Northern
27 Ireland Police Authority from 1994 to 1996, and I was a
28 member of the Community Relations Council in Northern
29 Ireland from 1990 to 1996.
30 2 Q. I think it's fair to say, Mr. Ryder, that you have, in your
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 3
1 journalistic endeavours, you have a particular expertise,
2 and are known to have a particular expertise, in policing
3 and security matters?
4 A. Yes, those would be the two areas in which most of my works
5 was focused.
6 3 Q. And I understand, in fact, that, in 1989, you wrote a book
7 called A Force Under Fire, which is considered by many to
8 be the definitive history of the RUC to that date?
9 A. Yes, that's my book.
10 4 Q. I think you have been following press coverage of the
11 Tribunal, and a number of matters which you saw arose your
12 interest because you had previously written certain
13 articles in relation to one of those. One of those is a
14 name that arose in the context of the Tribunal's business,
15 and that's the name of a businessman called Jim McCann in
16 Dundalk?
17 A. That's correct, yeah.
18 5 Q. Did you write an article in relation to Mr. McCann?
19 A. Yes. My attention was drawn to Mr. McCann's operations in
20 Dundalk by a source of mine at Scotland Yard, and by other
21 sources then in Northern Ireland once I had begun to make
22 inquiries. I actually vaguely knew of McCann, who had been
23 prominent as a boxer in Northern Ireland in the years,
24 about late 1960s, perhaps, at the very early stage of the
25 Troubles. I was then aware that he had jumped bail, but I
26 can't recall for what offence he was before the courts in
27 Northern Ireland. And then I didn't hear of him again
28 until this link to the gaming-machines factory in Dundalk
29 was pointed out to me.
30 6 Q. You knew he jumped bail. Were you aware that he had fled
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 4
1 the jurisdiction into the Republic?
2 A. Yes, I discovered then, when I made some inquiries, that he
3 had taken up residence, I think it was at a place called
4 Dromiskin, just outside Dundalk, but that he was operating
5 a factory -- I just can't remember the precise location; it
6 was quite close to the railway station and near the big
7 Tesco store there.
8 7 Q. In Dundalk town?
9 A. In Dundalk town. It was an IDA-funded factory.
10 8 Q. And what did your contact in Scotland Yard tell you about
11 that factory or Mr. McCann's activities?
12 A. Well, it was pointed out to me that the factory was of
13 interest to them because of possible links with the
14 manufacture of bomb-making equipment which had been used in
15 London, and which was also being used in Northern Ireland,
16 and then when I made further inquiries, I discovered that
17 Mr. McCann was making gaming machines, and that at the time
18 I was aware that gaming machines were a source of
19 fundraising for republicans and indeed loyalists in
20 Belfast.
21 9 Q. In what way?
22 A. They were put in the drinking clubs and taxi depots, and
23 places like that, and they were -- the proceeds of the
24 machines were taken away by representatives of the IRA and
25 the loyalists and they were used to fund their
26 organisations, and they were quite a money-spinning,
27 lucrative activity, because the payouts were tilted in
28 favour of the people who operated the machines rather than
29 the punters who were putting the money in.
30 10 Q. So it assisted a kind of Provisional IRA fundraising or
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 5
1 racketeering --
2 A. Yes, I can't remember the figures now --
3 11 Q. -- scheme?
4 A. -- but there were figures returned in some of the accounts
5 of the clubs which showed that there was quite a
6 considerable amount of money going through the machines.
7 12 Q. And did you -- when you wrote your story for the Sunday
8 Times, you dealt with these matters in this level of
9 detail, did you?
10 A. It's so long ago now I just can't remember the detail, but,
11 you know, we did write some articles about the IRA's
12 racketeering activities to make money. And then the other
13 side to that investigation was that the machinery, or the
14 equipment in the factory in Dundalk, was ideally suited to
15 making electronic circuitry boards for the machines, but
16 that was also then being used to make sophisticated
17 electronic timer power units for the detonation of bombs,
18 and I think that through the bomb intelligence network,
19 that the British authorities had identified components and
20 things of that sort which led back and pointed to McCann's
21 factory, and there was a man called Eoin McNamee who was
22 regarded as being the bomb maker, and he was subsequently
23 convicted in England of activities, making bombs.
24 13 Q. And this factory was receiving funding from the IDA?
25 A. Yes, I understood it was receiving funding from the IDA. I
26 was then, later, told by an Irish diplomat, after we had
27 drawn, the Sunday Times had drawn their attention to what
28 was really going on in the factory, that the funding was
29 withdrawn.
30 14 Q. And I wonder could you give the Chairman the context as to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 6
1 why Scotland Yard were feeding you this information?
2 A. Well, I think it was a common feature of the seventies and
3 eighties, both in Belfast and Dublin, that there was a high
4 degree of frustration at the level of cooperation that was
5 being received from the Irish authorities in relation to
6 disrupting and curtailing IRA activity. Politically and
7 publicly, the Irish authorities were committed to a
8 relentless campaign against the IRA, but the reality on the
9 ground, as it was seen from Dublin and Belfast -- or from
10 London and Belfast, was that those were fine words that
11 weren't backed up by action, and there was great
12 frustration over the failure of extradition cases on a
13 repeated basis because of the political defence that was
14 allowed by the courts here. There was a failure, they
15 believed, for real aggressive on-the-ground action against
16 IRA activities. You know, there were all sorts of people
17 on the run, operating in Dundalk and Castleblayney and
18 places like that. There was a feeling that there was
19 insufficient action being taken against them and that the
20 rigours of the law were not being applied, and that while
21 they were killing fellow Irishmen in the North, there
22 didn't seem to be any concern about that. Indeed, I wrote
23 a column once in which I said that in the political and
24 official establishment at Dublin, they were prawn-cocktail
25 Provos, as there were smoked-salmon socialists in England
26 who acquiesced, if not approved, of violence, because it
27 was going to get back the North and end partition. Now,
28 they would never have come out and said that, but that
29 attitude was how it was seen from London and Belfast,
30 because of the repeated lack of vigorous cooperation,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 7
1 vigorous action against the IRA, the failure to change the
2 extradition laws to hand people back, the failure to really
3 disrupt and interdict IRA operations on the southern side
4 of the border which were then resulting in deaths and
5 violence and injuries in the North.
6 15 Q. Can I turn specifically to that issue of policing of the
7 border on the southern side, and I wonder could you just,
8 maybe, for the Chairman, indicate what your understanding
9 of what more the British authorities wanted in terms of the
10 policing of the border or what they felt could be done on
11 the southern side of the border in terms of policing, that
12 wasn't being done?
13 A. I mean, I knew what the frustrations were, but from my own
14 individual experience, I saw the inadequacies. I remember,
15 once, with a great fanfare, we were provided with the
16 opportunity to accompany an Irish army patrol from Dundalk
17 to show just how vigorous they were on their side of the
18 border, so we were carried out in a convoy of three or four
19 armoured cars and there was a police car accompanying us,
20 and, when we got just short of the border, the lead army
21 vehicle stopped and he went over to the Garda car and he
22 had to take a radio from the Garda, because the Irish army
23 radio network wasn't compatible with the one used by the
24 Garda. So if they were going to have any activity at all,
25 they had to share the radio network, so that showed that
26 there wasn't really all that much going on. But the most
27 telling thing was that when my photographer colleague and I
28 were standing beside a soldier, he was in a cover position
29 in the ditch, and he said, "Are you guys going to be long?"
30 And we said, "Why?" He said, "Oh, we only do these sort of
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 8
1 patrols when there is photographers. Friday is pay day and
2 we get off early." It just compounded in my mind the view
3 that this was just sort of for the optics; it wasn't that
4 there was real vigorous activity on the ground. And --
5 16 Q. A PR exercise for journalists?
6 A. A PR exercise for journalists. It was always the same.
7 Incidents would happen and nothing would -- nobody would
8 appear on the Irish side when there were incidents close to
9 the border, and the contacts between the two sides were
10 very limited. I think that was partly down to the wariness
11 that many RUC officers had, that the Garda didn't really
12 want to cooperate with them --
13 17 Q. Sorry, just to pause there. In your experience, the
14 cooperation between the RUC and the Garda Siochana was
15 limited; can I just clarify, firstly, what period we are
16 talking about here?
17 A. Well, through the seventies and well into the eighties.
18 18 Q. Okay.
19 A. It varied a little because, you know, when Charles Haughey
20 was Prime Minister, he took a very dim view of any
21 concessions --
22 19 Q. How many concessions --
23 A. -- to the northern security forces, and so that political
24 hostility, if you like, filtered down to the people on the
25 ground. When Fine Gael were in power, there was a slightly
26 more constructive approach, but I think that there was a
27 general perception from the northern side and from the
28 British side that while there were fine words condemning
29 the IRA and fine words saying that we are not going to
30 tolerate what they do, that that was never backed, on the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 9
1 ground, by decisive action, by legal change, by aggressive
2 patrolling, the sorts of things that security experts in
3 the North believed were necessary to squeeze the IRA on
4 both sides. I mean, in the early 1980s, there was a
5 proposal - there had been a whole series of serious attacks
6 along the border - in the early 1980s, there was a proposal
7 that the British and Irish armies should jointly man posts
8 right on the frontier so that there was a visible deterrent
9 to people smuggling stuff across, and that was dismissed
10 entirely out of the hand by the people in Dublin. They
11 didn't want to know about that.
12 20 Q. How do you know that?
13 A. I know that because of briefings that I was given by
14 various people on the military and the police side in the
15 North and by political sources who were party to those
16 negotiations, which were all around the time of the
17 Anglo-Irish Agreement.
18 21 Q. But the particular proposal for a joint army checkpoint on
19 the border, that predated the Anglo-Irish Agreement, did
20 it?
21 A. No, it was around that period. If you recall, there were
22 very intensive negotiations in and around the Agreement and
23 that was one of the security issues that they were very
24 keen on from the northern side, and, indeed, when the
25 Anglo-Irish Agreement was implemented without that vigorous
26 agreement on the part of the South, the British Army then
27 went ahead and they built a whole network of border patrol
28 bases and watchtowers along the border then to enhance the
29 ones that were already there.
30 22 Q. We'll come on and deal with watch towers in due course.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 10
1 Just arising from your description of the absence of a
2 radio which the Irish army and the Garda Siochana could
3 use, just to could be clear, are you saying that there was
4 a perception of a lack of resources or a lack of will on
5 the southern side?
6 A. I think it was both. There was certainly a lack of
7 resources because, you know, the Irish army had limited
8 manpower, they had limited vehicles. The Garda were
9 essentially unarmed and were not visible, organised or
10 mobile in the way that, for example, the RUC were on the
11 other side, or the British Army were, and there was a
12 feeling that if there were going to be really vigorous
13 cross-border security, effective cross-border security,
14 that both sides needed to be operating at a very high
15 intensity and a very much higher intensity than they were
16 on the southern side for virtually all of the period of the
17 Troubles.
18 23 Q. I think you say in your statement that you describe it
19 almost as an obsession that the British had with the
20 security situation along the border?
21 A. Well, it was, because, you know, every time an atrocity
22 happened, the forensic trail for the making of the bombs,
23 the gathering of explosives, in a very high proportion of
24 the cases that led back to bomb-making factories or to the
25 supply -- for example, the gelignite that was being used in
26 Northern Ireland, and indeed in Britain, was sourced to the
27 Enfield explosives factory here in the Republic, and there
28 were constant efforts made to try and persuade the Irish
29 authorities to tighten that up and to stop the stealing of
30 gelignite from there. There were constant cross-border
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 11
1 attacks and, whenever those happened, I mean, UDR men who
2 lived in isolated farmhouses along the border were
3 regularly murdered by killers who made back across the
4 border. So the British side and the local politicians were
5 hearing desperate pleas from the relatives of those people
6 and the communities in those areas to get the Irish to take
7 more effective action to stop these cross-border killings.
8 So it was a very serious concern, because the border was a
9 massive assistance to the IRA in that it could move gunmen
10 and bombers into Northern Ireland, strike again and move
11 them out and they could organise and develop their
12 logistics in Dundalk and places like that.
13 24 Q. Did you ever, in the course of your journalistic
14 investigations, uncover much about the exchange of
15 information and, in particular, the exchange of
16 intelligence information between Garda Siochana and the
17 RUC, or indeed between the guards and any British security
18 agency?
19 A. Yes. The Irish were absolutely rigorous that there would
20 be no army-to-army contact, so that was never attempted,
21 except in the bomb disposals sphere when there was a
22 contact between the two sets of bomb disposal experts.
23 That was regarded as a special case. But the contact
24 across the border was primarily and exclusively between
25 police and police, and, as I said before, the level of that
26 varied from time to time, and it was also affected by the
27 level of trust that existed between the two police forces,
28 and there was a very strong perception on the northern side
29 that not all the Garda were to be trusted and that not
30 everything that they knew, and indeed wanted to know, could
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 12
1 be discussed with the Garda, and that they were cautious
2 about making the Garda aware of operations in advance, and
3 things of that sort, and I think the Tribunal has already
4 heard some evidence from police officers involved that that
5 was the case, that, very often, they would bypass the
6 border stations and go straight to Dublin because of fears
7 about the information or activities being compromised.
8 25 Q. I think the former Deputy Commissioner Blair Wallace gave
9 evidence to that effect last week.
10 A. Yes, that's what I have in mind.
11 26 Q. Just on this issue of RUC wariness of An Garda Siochana,
12 were you hearing that from RUC officers themselves?
13 A. Yes, directly.
14 27 Q. At all levels, at senior levels, at junior levels?
15 A. Yes. I mean, sometimes I would have had contact with
16 officers in places like Newry or Enniskillen or the other
17 areas where they had a responsibility for patrolling the
18 border, and indeed I would often have contact with the
19 British Army in those locations, and it was a constant
20 worry about the gathering of intelligence and the exchanges
21 of intelligence and the effective use of intelligence to
22 prevent atrocities taking place, and there was -- at a more
23 formal level then, at the command level, if you like, there
24 was constant concerns and constant worries and indeed
25 constant representations between the two Governments and
26 between the two police forces for much more effective
27 security cooperation.
28 28 Q. In terms of the -- I think you said that there were
29 individual guards they didn't trust. Would they name these
30 guards to you openly? Was it discussed openly that there
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 13
1 were such-and-such a guard?
2 A. Well, sometimes I would have had conversations in general
3 terms about, you know, the lack of trust in the Gardaí,
4 and, you know, I had heard it said, for example, that there
5 were some Garda who didn't even trust some of their
6 colleagues with sensitive information.
7 29 Q. Was that said to you by RUC or by Gardaí?
8 A. By RUC, and indeed on one occasion by a senior guard, he
9 admitted that to me, but that was an isolated incidence on
10 the part of the guard, but it was a pretty common
11 conversation-point with members of the RUC at lower and
12 higher levels.
13 30 Q. Just to be clear, what did the senior guard say to you,
14 sorry?
15 A. He just confirmed to me the fact that, occasionally, that
16 he would have had to be very circumspect about information
17 and activities within its own organisation because of the
18 delicacy of some of the things he would do and the fear
19 that that information might be leaked for the wrong
20 purposes.
21 31 Q. Who was the guard?
22 A. I'd rather not say.
23 32 Q. It's a matter for the Chairman whether he wants -- he might
24 invite you to write the name down for his attention.
25
26 CHAIRMAN: Would that be possible, Mr. Ryder? Would you be
27 prepared to write the name down on a piece of paper and
28 hand it in?
29 A. I'll do that.
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 14
1 (Name written on paper and handed to the Chairman)
2
3 CHAIRMAN: Very good.
4 A. I am fairly sure that's the first name.
5
6 CHAIRMAN: That's the name of the guard who gave you the
7 information or the name of the suspect?
8 A. No, that's the name of the garda with whom I recall the
9 conversation about the need for being circumspect.
10
11 33 Q. MR. VALENTINE: Did this guard express concern about the
12 need to be circumspect in respect of any particular
13 individual, or was it -- there was no specificity?
14 A. No, that officer only spoke in the most general terms about
15 the need to be circumspect.
16 34 Q. But other RUC officers told you that guards had told them
17 that they were wary of some of their own people, is that
18 right? Did I understand you to say that, as well?
19 A. Yes, I mean, I think that some RUC officers had one-to-one
20 relationships with Garda officers that they felt they could
21 trust and were comfortable in dealing with and knew that
22 those exchanges would remain confidential. I think on
23 other occasions they were very concerned and very wary
24 about dealings with certain other guards or certain other
25 guards in certain locations.
26 35 Q. Were there particular Garda stations which seemed to cause
27 more concern than others to the RUC?
28 A. Well, I think that the most difficult area was the Dundalk
29 one.
30 36 Q. Why was that?
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1 A. Well, the campaign in Northern Ireland was at its most
2 intense in south Armagh, and therefore, the relationship
3 between the police and Dundalk, the police in Newry and the
4 Dundalk Garda, would have been the principal axis because
5 of all the activity in that area, and I think that was
6 where a lot of the trouble, a lot of the concerns focused.
7 37 Q. What did the RUC officers you spoke to, particularly in
8 Newry, or those that had to deal with Dundalk Station, what
9 did they tell you about dealing with An Garda Siochana in
10 Dundalk?
11 A. Well, just that they were wary, that they were very
12 suspicious and that there was certain information they
13 would withhold or there was certain things that they would
14 have elected to try to do but they felt that that might not
15 have been treated with the sensitivity it required on the
16 other side, and I think there was, sometimes, a frustration
17 that they sometimes had to let things go or they weren't
18 able to follow things up.
19 38 Q. Did they give you any explanation as to where the wariness
20 had come from? Did it come from specific experiences that
21 they had had?
22 A. I mean, these were the people that were at the coal face,
23 and the conversations that I had with them would have
24 reflected their experience at the coal face, the
25 difficulties, the problems, and, you know, they were
26 dealing with very sensitive matters, and they wouldn't
27 always have, indeed they would very rarely have spelled out
28 to me the whole intimate detail of some of their concerns.
29 But sometimes in the aftermath of a major incident, you
30 know, I would be trying to write a piece to explain or
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 16
1 analyse what the context was, and they would say to me,
2 "ah, things are very bad" or "things are very difficult" or
3 "we can't do this" or "we'd like to do that," and it would
4 be in the context of that frustration that the cross-border
5 cooperation was not as fulsome and as honest and as
6 effective as they would like it to have been and it should
7 have been.
8 39 Q. I think, in fairness, you do give one specific example in
9 your statement, and, as I have already indicated, that's
10 the subject of ongoing inquiries, and we'll deal with that
11 on the next occasion, so to speak.
12 A. Yes.
13 40 Q. Did the names of any particular guards arise from your
14 discussions with the RUC?
15 A. I am sure they did, and I can't at this distance recall any
16 of them or who they were, but there was one particular name
17 that did arise on a regular basis and that was Owen
18 Corrigan. And as you will probably ask me, I had a
19 particular reason for remembering him.
20 41 Q. Why is that? Did you meet Owen Corrigan at any occasion?
21 A. Yes, to the best of my knowledge, I have only met him once,
22 and that was in the La Mon Hotel in Belfast.
23 42 Q. The La Mon House Hotel?
24 A. Yes.
25 43 Q. And when was that meeting?
26 A. I am unable to say precisely when the meeting took place,
27 but I do recollect that it was in the early 1970s before
28 the -- in the old original La Mon Hotel before the
29 explosion in 1978 when so many people were killed by a
30 blast incendiary device. I recall vividly that it was in
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 17
1 the old original hotel. What happened was, I was there
2 with another senior RUC officer, to meet him for lunch, he
3 was a regular lunch companion, and when we arrived in the
4 hotel, there was another man there, two men I didn't
5 know --
6 44 Q. Just to explain to you, Mr. Ryder, just for your
7 information, the Tribunal has a policy of not naming RUC
8 officers who are still alive, but please feel free to name
9 witnesses who are dead, so I don't think there is a problem
10 with you naming --
11 A. Chief Superintendent Jimmy Crutchley, who is now deceased,
12 unfortunately, and at that point he was the Staff Officer
13 to the Chief Constable.
14 45 Q. And who was the Chief Constable at that point?
15 A. I presume it would have been Sir Jamie Flanagan, he -- but
16 it might just have been around the time Sir Ken Newman took
17 over. It certainly would have been about the '74, '5, '6
18 period, something like that.
19 46 Q. I think the La Mon House was blown up in '78?
20 A. Yes.
21 47 Q. So, just to be clear, you are talking about some period in
22 the four years preceding that --
23 A. I really can't be any more precise than that, other than
24 that it was before the hotel was blown up, because I do
25 vividly remember it was the old original hotel.
26 48 Q. It wasn't as far back as the early seventies?
27 A. No, it would have been more the sort of '5, '6 period.
28 49 Q. Sorry, I interrupted you. You were meeting Chief
29 Superintendent Crutchley, who was a lunch companion of
30 yours?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 18
1 A. Yes.
2 50 Q. Explain --
3 A. We went into the hotel. There were two other people there,
4 I didn't know who they were, but one of them nodded at
5 Jimmy, and it was obvious he was another police officer
6 there; in fact, I think Jimmy might have said who he was.
7 But at any rate, I think maybe before we went in for our
8 meal, or at some point anyway, they came over, and I was
9 introduced to these two people. One of them was Brian
10 Fitzsimons, who was also deceased, who was then a senior
11 figure in the RUC Special Branch, and I was introduced to
12 the other man as Owen Corrigan, who was described to me as
13 an officer from the Garda Siochana.
14 51 Q. Who introduced you to Mr. Corrigan?
15 A. Brian Fitzsimons. I don't think Jimmy Crutchley knew Owen
16 Corrigan either. It was just a -- he knew -- obviously,
17 Crutchley and Fitzsimons knew each other. I didn't know
18 Fitzsimons at that stage, it was the first time I had ever
19 met him as well. So they went on in, I think, and had
20 lunch, or they may have sat on in the bar when we were
21 going in to lunch, I just don't remember the detail. But
22 later on in the afternoon, after lunch, the four of us came
23 together -- and there may well have been a fifth person
24 there, I'm not sure, or he might have been there and left
25 again or something, but it's really not of any
26 consequence -- during the course of the afternoon, there
27 was only very general conversation; I mean, I don't even
28 remember the detail of it now, but there was nothing of any
29 startling significance that sticks in my mind after all
30 this time. But during the course of the afternoon, I went
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 19
1 to the lavatory, and Mr. Corrigan was in the lavatory and
2 we were just sort of exchanging pleasantries, as you do,
3 and he then said to me, you know, that if I was ever
4 looking for stories, to look him up in Dundalk. And he
5 sort of proffered his card to me, and he then said,
6 "There'll be a few bob in it for me, wouldn't there?" And
7 I was non-committal, obviously, but, immediately, all my
8 alarm bells began to ring because never before and never
9 since have I ever been propositioned by a police officer
10 for money for stories, and, I mean, I wouldn't even have
11 considered the possibility because I know my editor in the
12 Sunday Times in London would have been utterly opposed to
13 paying a police officer for information. And because of
14 that, you know, obviously, meeting Mr. Corrigan and being
15 propositioned like that, his name and his approach stuck in
16 my memory, and have done since.
17 52 Q. Just to be clear, you weren't familiar with his name before
18 you met him in the La Mon House Hotel?
19 A. No, not at all.
20 53 Q. And you say it stuck in your memory since. Did you hear
21 the name again after that?
22 A. Yes, periodically, yes, I would have heard his name.
23 54 Q. In what context?
24 A. In the context that, you know, he was a bit of a dodgy guy
25 in terms of helping the IRA and in terms of not being
26 trustworthy, as the RUC would have seen it, in respecting
27 security confidences and things of that sort. And, you
28 know, his name didn't come up on a regular basis, but from
29 time to time, if there was an incident down there, or
30 something, or I might be talking to somebody, and I would
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 20
1 say, oh, you know, that was such-and-such or, you know,
2 Corrigan was involved in that or somebody was trying to get
3 Corrigan to do something. It was just in a very general
4 context. But because I remembered Mr. Corrigan so vividly
5 from our encounter, then, you know, whenever his name did
6 come up in conversation and there was inferences, sort of,
7 or allegations made about his conduct and his
8 trustworthiness, you know, I knew who they were talking
9 about and I knew what was involved.
10 55 Q. And you didn't meet him again?
11 A. Not to the best of my knowledge, no.
12 56 Q. Do you know why he was with Brian Fitzsimons?
13 A. No idea. They had their own little huddle. They were
14 already engaged in a little huddle when we arrived and
15 their little huddle continued while we had lunch, and it
16 was then obviously when we had a further few drinks after
17 lunch, that there was just the most general social
18 conversation, nothing of any consequence was discussed
19 there, because I don't remember, indeed, what it was about.
20 57 Q. Just in relation to, this is a slight step backwards, but
21 in relation to the Anglo Irish Agreement and the British
22 efforts to beef up cross-border cooperation and to try and
23 beef up the policing of the border, did you write a story
24 in relation to an offer from another jurisdiction to assist
25 in that regard?
26 A. Yes. I understood from American diplomatic sources that
27 they judged that more effective policing on the southern
28 side was the key to resolving the violence in Ireland, and
29 they were very keen, indeed, that the Irish army, and the
30 Irish police in particular, would have the means to up
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 21
1 their game, and they -- I understood from this American
2 diplomat that they were putting great pressure on the Irish
3 to allow them to help by providing training and equipment
4 and other help to the Garda and to the Irish army so that
5 they could play a full part on the southern side in
6 assisting to end the violence. And I then, with that --
7 armed with that knowledge then, I spoke to various sources
8 of mine on both the Irish side and on the British side to
9 try and develop and embellish that information for the
10 purpose of writing a story, and it was confirmed to me by
11 the Irish side that, yes, they were under that pressure and
12 that it was being considered, and it was at this point, I
13 think, that the offer, or the expression or the desire to
14 have the joint posts on the border was also discussed; it
15 was in that context. And I also had conversations on the
16 British side about that, yeah, to try and, you know, flesh
17 out what their attitude was to it and what they wanted to
18 be done.
19 58 Q. And ultimately?
20 A. Ultimately, I was told by the Irish side that they had
21 resisted the American pressure and the British pressure and
22 they had decided that they wouldn't accept either loans or
23 grants or any other arrangement from -- sponsored by the
24 United States, to try and beef up the Irish security
25 forces.
26 59 Q. And I think you said earlier that it was in that context
27 that the British effectively decided, well, we'll do it
28 ourselves and --
29 A. Yes, well after 1985 then, after 1985, they embarked on a
30 huge border-building programme of -- there had already been
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 22
1 some watch towers and some covert observation posts, but
2 they decided then that they would create a network of very
3 hi-tec patrol bases and that they would increase the
4 visible window, if you like, from the other watch towers,
5 and things, so that they would have a much more
6 comprehensive surveillance along the border and into the
7 South.
8 60 Q. The Tribunal has heard some evidence in relation to the
9 capacity of the watch towers. I think you might be in a
10 position to assist the Chairman somewhat, because I think
11 you had an occasion, as a journalist, to visit one of these
12 watch towers?
13 A. Can I just say from the outset that even now, at this
14 distance in time, the British authorities are extremely
15 sensitive about discussing the capabilities and the
16 equipment that was in those watch towers.
17 61 Q. I think the Tribunal is very familiar with the term
18 'methodology', which seems to have caused them some
19 concern.
20 A. And I have no technical qualifications or expertise. So
21 anything that I would say is based on my observation of
22 things that I saw and conversations with people, from which
23 I had been able to deduce some guesstimate of, perhaps, the
24 capabilities of the surveillance. But I would put it in
25 two ways: You know, as a physical surveillance capacity,
26 from the top -- I mean, I visited, in fact, a number of
27 these bases over the years, probably the most dramatic one
28 was, I think it was called Romeo 14, which is the one at
29 Clough on the main Belfast-Dublin Road, where it overlooked
30 the railway line on the main Belfast-Dublin Road, and they
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 23
1 had in their -- very high-powered binoculars on tripods,
2 which, on a clear day, had allowed them to physically look
3 over a huge area. There were also closed circuit capacity
4 televisions which allowed them to beam pictures back to
5 brigade headquarters and operations rooms elsewhere in
6 Northern Ireland. They bristled with aerials and antennae
7 of various sorts, and I don't know what their capacity was,
8 but I do know that one of the things they were
9 concentrating on was electronic counter-measures against
10 bombs, because the IRA were very technically adept and had
11 been developing and enhancing their capacity to use radio
12 control bombs and remote control bombs, and these were
13 being used, detonated by a variety of electronic methods
14 based on radio signals, and there was a constant battle
15 between the British bomb disposal experts and the IRA to
16 detect and make sure that these bombs didn't go off, and I
17 understood that they created waves of sound which would
18 have blocked the wavelengths on which the bombs could have
19 been detonated and I think that they also had a capacity to
20 detect signals in certain wavelengths if there was a bomb
21 in place, or something of that sort. Again, I'm not a
22 technical expert --
23 62 Q. I think you refer to these wavelengths in your statement as
24 electronic counter-measures?
25 A. They were known as the electronic counter-measures. And
26 there was rooms in these patrol bases and, you know, at the
27 base Romeo 14, and that, where a lot of this activity was
28 centred, or seen to be centred, and there would have been,
29 to my knowledge, soldiers from -- with very specialist
30 qualifications there from the intelligence corps, the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 24
1 electrical mechanical engineers, they were all signals,
2 these would have been pretty expert people in this field of
3 warfare.
4 63 Q. Was it your understanding that every one of the watch
5 towers had one of these rooms in it?
6 A. Yes. The later ones --
7 64 Q. There was a physical lookout room?
8 A. Yes, there was physical sentries and they would have
9 operated various cameras and things of that sort. But in
10 the complex, there was an operations room with all the
11 electronic equipment in it, and then, later on, after there
12 had been a number of mortar bombs and things of that sort,
13 they built fortified operations rooms, which were known as
14 the submarine, and they had big heavy double doors, and
15 things of that sort, so that if they were mortar-attacked
16 or bombed, the people inside remained safe. Again, they
17 were very sensitive about letting people into those and
18 seeing what capacity they had there. Indeed, I wrote a
19 book about the bomb disposal officers in Northern Ireland,
20 and they allowed me very great access to the way they did
21 their work, and that, but the one area that was taboo was
22 the electronic counter-measures; they wouldn't talk about
23 that very much at all and, even now, they are still very,
24 very sensitive about that.
25 65 Q. You did mention that they also had, as well as electronic
26 counter-measures, there was some monitoring capacity; the
27 exact extent of it was closely guarded, is that correct?
28 A. Yes, that's right.
29 66 Q. Even the capacity to pick up signals?
30 A. Yes. Even now, you know, they won't say what their
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 25
1 capacity was. But it was quite clear that they had some
2 capacity to pick up -- I mean, walkie-talkies and CB radio,
3 and things of that sort, were quite common then and, you
4 know, I think -- I don't know much about it, but, you know,
5 I understood you could get scanners which you could buy in
6 specialist shops which allowed you to listen in on these
7 things. I would imagine that the army would have had much
8 more sophisticated scanners to monitor things of that sort.
9 67 Q. Just on the point of CB radios and the like, I wonder could
10 you just outline to the Chairman your understanding of the
11 IRA's technical capacity at that particular time?
12 A. Well, it was developing all the time. I mean, my
13 understanding was that the early bombs were used with
14 things like parking-meter timers and video timers and
15 things of that sort, but, as the campaign wore on, they
16 began to adapt these things in ever more sophisticated
17 ways. For example, when video recorders became popular,
18 they were able -- they had a capacity to set, to watch
19 programmes days in advance. So they were able to adapt
20 that timer to bury a bomb to go off in seven or eight or
21 ten days, and they then -- I mean, I was out in America
22 covering one of the arms supply trials, and one of the
23 pieces of evidence that was given there was that they had
24 prevented them from buying fairly high-powered model
25 aircraft, and the plan was that they would pack these
26 aircrafts with explosives and fly them by remote control
27 into heavily-guarded military bases or police stations.
28 That never actually happened, but that evidence was given
29 in the court in America, that they had been procuring radio
30 control equipment and model aeroplanes for that purpose.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 26
1 68 Q. Do you know anything about their capacity to tap phones or
2 intercept phone conversations?
3 A. Well, again, there was huge sensitivity to that, but there
4 is very strong reason to believe that they had suborned --
5 in Belfast they had suborned some people in British Telecom
6 and that there was a tap, for a period at least, on a
7 direct line used by the general officer commanding at army
8 headquarters in Lisburn which was routed to the attic of a
9 house in Andersonstown, which was discovered during a huge
10 big police investigation in Belfast. That's referred to in
11 my book, A Force Under Fire, and no one ever denied to me
12 that that telephone interception had not been in place for
13 some time, and there are persisting stories that there were
14 interceptions on other sensitive places.
15 69 Q. Do you ever hear anything about any suggestions that there
16 were interceptions south of the border by the IRA?
17 A. Yes, in the context of the Breen/Buchanan killings, you
18 know, in the aftermath of that, it was when all the
19 speculation and the rumours began about how the two had
20 been targeted and set up, there was a fairly common thread
21 to their stories that the Dundalk telephone lines had been
22 compromised to provide -- or to gain information that they
23 were on their way to the station. That's obviously a
24 matter for the Tribunal, but I'm just reporting that that
25 was one of the theories that was around.
26 70 Q. And from whom did you hear that theory, can you recall?
27 A. Oh, I think I probably read it and heard it from different
28 people. I didn't hear it in any situation that I would
29 regard it as authoritative or well-informed.
30 71 Q. I understand that, I think the Tribunal has seen an article
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 27
1 written by Jim Cusack in the Cork Examiner shortly after
2 the murders which refers to that theory or made reference
3 to that possibility.
4 A. Yeah, I mean it was fairly widely disseminated around that
5 time, I am sure, that there was -- that there were people
6 who was postulating that theory.
7 72 Q. But you didn't hear from any persons, for example, involved
8 in the RUC investigation or any definite --
9 A. No. As I said, I never heard it from any source that I
10 would regard as authoritative or well-informed, whereas I
11 was told about the intercept on the army line and the
12 operation in the house in Andersonstown in Belfast, you
13 know, from an authoritative source, which is why I wrote it
14 in the book.
15 73 Q. In relation to the murders of Breen and Buchanan, I think
16 you knew Harry Breen, isn't that correct?
17 A. Yes, I had met Harry Breen on many occasions. I didn't
18 know Bob Buchanan.
19 74 Q. What was your impression of Harry Breen?
20 A. That he was very typical of the RUC. He was very committed
21 to his job, very brave man and very hard working and very
22 concerned -- you know, I can remember vividly meeting him
23 on a number of occasions at the white tape, if I may call
24 it, along the Killeen stretch of the road, after various
25 numbers of crimes --
26 75 Q. The crime-scene tape?
27 A. The crime-scene tape. I remember vividly talking to him
28 after the murder of Lord Justice Gibson and his wife. I
29 can remember talking to him on a number of occasions at
30 incidents along -- I particularly remember the Gibson one.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 28
1 76 Q. When you say you met him a few times, was it generally in
2 this context of a, at a scene --
3 A. Well, yes, I met him there, but I would occasionally have
4 bumped into him. I mean, I think I might have actually
5 come down to Newry to see him once in the station, I'm not
6 a hundred percent sure about that, but -- and sometimes
7 when I would be in other police company, I might have, you
8 know, at a conference or something, he might have been
9 there and I might have just passed the time of day with
10 him, or something like that.
11 77 Q. Do you recall the content of your conversation with him?
12 You say you have a clear recollection of talking to him at
13 the white tape after the Gibson killings. Do you recall
14 the conversation?
15 A. I was trying to glean as much -- I mean, that one was on a
16 Saturday morning, and I had to file a report by lunch time
17 that day, and I can remember, you know, talking to him in
18 detail, trying to glean as much information about what had
19 happened and the sequence of events, and at that stage,
20 early on in the morning, we didn't quite know who the
21 victims were, so during the course of that morning, you
22 know, when he would have been going backwards and forwards,
23 I would have had conversations with him; indeed, some other
24 journalists might well have done, as well.
25 78 Q. And did he express any view as to how the operation in
26 relation to the Gibsons had been carried out?
27 A. Just the most general information, you know, that they had
28 been travelling North and that the bomb had detonated and
29 that their car was at the side of the road and that other
30 people had been caught up in it. You know, just the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 29
1 general physical circumstances that had occurred at that
2 point, which led to the two deaths.
3 79 Q. You referred to the white scene-of-crime tape at Killeen?
4 A. Yeah.
5 80 Q. The Tribunal has heard evidence that there were, in fact, a
6 number of very significant atrocities carried out at that
7 spot on the border?
8 A. Right. I mean, there was the Brink's-MAT robbery when the
9 police officers were murdered; there was the Gibson
10 killings; there was the Hanna killings, when they were
11 obviously mistaken for a judge who was coming North after a
12 holiday; and there were regular other incidents along that
13 stretch of road. I mean, even in the old days when there
14 was a customs post there in the early seventies, I can
15 remember quite a number of shooting incidents and bomb
16 attacks along that stretch of the road.
17 81 Q. And I think the Gibson ones were killed in April '87, the
18 Hanna killing was summer '88 and the Breen and Buchanan
19 were March '89. I mean, in the North, was anyone linking
20 these incidents together and expressing a concern at a
21 pattern emerging of incidents at Killeen?
22 A. I think there was a feeling that there was some, there was
23 something wrong. I mean, nobody ever said to me
24 definitively that there was a mole or that somebody had
25 been betrayed, but people sort of voiced suspicions that
26 there was something wrong, that there was something going
27 wrong, that there was something leaking, that there was
28 something rotten there that had led to these incidents.
29 82 Q. When you say people expressed those concerns to you, who
30 are we talking about?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 30
1 A. Various police officers and army officers and people like
2 that. But I remember vividly, again, the afternoon after
3 Gibson was killed, I was driving back through Newry to go
4 back to Belfast, and there was -- at that stage, there was
5 an army post, a police army post on Downshire Road in
6 Newry, on the left-hand side of the road, and just as I was
7 going past it, because the main road went through Newry at
8 that time, I recognised a friend of mine from the Special
9 Branch in Belfast who was driving out, and he waved at me,
10 he recognised my car and he waved at me, and I sort of
11 rolled the window down and leaned over and shouted at him,
12 and we then agreed to go to the Sheepbridge Inn, which was
13 a couple of miles up the road towards Belfast. We went in
14 there and had a bit of a talk and he filled in some more of
15 the details, but he did say to me, you know, there is
16 something wrong here. He said, the travel arrangements of
17 the Gibsons must have been betrayed. He said, you know,
18 whether it was in Dublin or locally, or whatever, it must
19 have been betrayed, because the ambush was so precise, and,
20 you know, the inference of that was that their travel
21 arrangements would have been known only to a very small
22 number of people within the Garda, and that that was the
23 reason that they were so wickedly targeted, if you like,
24 that someone knew precisely that they were on their way up
25 the road and that they would be going along past there.
26 83 Q. I think it did subsequently emerge that Lord Justice Gibson
27 had booked through a travel agent in his own name?
28 A. Well, that wasn't known that afternoon to either of us.
29 But, you know, I mean, that opens up another line of
30 inquiry, as to whether that was the source of the leak.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 31
1 But at the time, because of that incident, and indeed over
2 that period when those incidents took place along that
3 Killeen stretch, in fact the army used to call that 'death
4 alley'. The suspicion was that there was something wrong,
5 that there was some compromise of security there. Whether
6 it was one person, whether it was a coincidence of other
7 people or a number of people, nobody was -- nobody that I
8 spoke to ever said definitively it's A, B or C, but there
9 was a general suspicion, concern, wariness, that the whole
10 operations in that Dundalk-Newry axis leaked like a sieve.
11 84 Q. And was there ever a movement to do something about it
12 within the RUC? Did you ever hear talk, well something has
13 to be done about this, we have to sort out this situation
14 in relation to Killeen?
15 A. There was, because, I mean, periodically, the two Chief
16 Constables would meet and, periodically, there were other
17 liaison meetings. Again, without knowing all the detail of
18 what was discussed, I mean, it was made clear to me that
19 there were constant representations to Dublin to do things,
20 to get action. I know, for example, that the extradition
21 laws were one particularly sore point, that people who had
22 been guilty of crimes, or -- people against whom there was
23 very convincing evidence of guilt of crimes in the North,
24 were able to oppose extradition on the grounds that this
25 was a political offence, and, because they claimed it was a
26 political offence, it was a tacit admission that they had
27 actually carried out the crimes. So, I mean, that was a
28 particular sore point, that they were not able to bring
29 those people to justice.
30 85 Q. Did you understand that there were representations -- were
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 32
1 there any representations being made to Dublin in relation
2 to the concern that information was leaking like a sieve,
3 to use the phrase you have just used?
4 A. Yes, I think there were. I think there were concerns about
5 that in the overall context, but there was -- the
6 overriding impression that I had was one of frustration,
7 you know, that, no matter what pleas they made, no matter
8 what efforts they made to try and get the southern people
9 on side, that there wasn't the political willingness or the
10 physical willingness to do that.
11 86 Q. And did that postdate the Anglo-Irish Agreement as well as
12 predating it? I mean, did that continue after the
13 Anglo-Irish Agreement?
14 A. Well, the first major clash that I became aware of, was, I
15 mean, everybody thinks that the 1974 Workers' Council
16 Strike brought down the Sunningdale Agreement, but, in
17 actual fact, there was a deadly impasse between the two
18 legal establishments over changing the extradition laws in
19 the South that was going to bring the thing down even
20 without the Ulster Workers' Council Strike. So from the
21 early seventies on, there was a constant battle over
22 security cooperation, over legal cooperation. The criminal
23 justice extradition legislation -- or the Criminal Law
24 (Jurisdiction) Act was brought in in a bid to try and have
25 people tried in one jurisdiction for offences committed in
26 another, and that didn't work and that increased the
27 frustration. They wanted a straight change in extradition,
28 and they also wanted, you know, much more vigorous
29 cooperation, deployment, activity by the Garda on the
30 southern side, much more activities to cut off the IRA's
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 33
1 routes up and down the border, and indeed the Enfield
2 explosives factory was another particular sore point. And
3 time after time when the forensic examination of explosive
4 residue was carried out, it was forensics coming from the
5 factory in Enfield in County Meath.
6 87 Q. And, I mean, again in relation to security cooperation, was
7 the battle raging in the -- was it still going on after the
8 Anglo-Irish Agreement in the late eighties?
9 A. Yes, it was.
10 88 Q. The Anglo-Irish Agreement didn't fix it all?
11 A. No. As I have said to you, the frustration that the Irish
12 didn't deliver on what was asked of them in the
13 negotiations leading up to the Anglo-Irish Agreement,
14 resulted in the British building and reinforcing their own
15 border operations, and the backdrop to that was that the
16 campaign to get much better cooperation was still ongoing.
17 Now, it did improve gradually, but I think that that
18 improvement was on the basis of one-to-ones between the
19 various border superintendents at a point, at which I am
20 not terribly sure, they formalised the liaison mechanisms
21 between the border superintendents and there was a much
22 more -- there were then telephone lines put in and that
23 sort of things to facilitate quick action and quick
24 contact, and I mean it did improve slightly but it never
25 reached the level that the British or the RUC or the
26 British Army would have considered to be ideal.
27 89 Q. In the immediate aftermath of the Breen and Buchanan
28 killings there was huge media speculation in relation to
29 the possibility of there being a mole which had led to the
30 murders and concern about a security leak from Dundalk
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 34
1 Station. However, on Tuesday the 21st March 1989, both the
2 Commissioner of An Garda Siochana and Sir John Hermon, in
3 press conferences, sat on that speculation, effectively,
4 and ruled out the possibility of a mole. Now that was done
5 even though the Assistant Commissioner who had been sent to
6 Dundalk to investigate the circumstances and arrangements
7 leading to the meeting hadn't in fact commenced his report
8 yet, but nevertheless the Commissioner did that on the day
9 and Sir John Hermon did that on the day. From what you are
10 saying about lack of cooperation, was it one thing was
11 being said in public for political reasons and for the
12 reasons of political unity, but behind the doors the RUC
13 wasn't happy?
14 A. Yes, I would agree with that; that was the position.
15 90 Q. Why was it necessary to maintain -- why, for example, do
16 you think Sir John Hermon made that statement on Tuesday
17 the 21st March?
18 A. I think Sir John Hermon was dealing with some very
19 difficult problems, and he had great difficulty in the
20 aftermath of the Anglo Irish Agreement in settling his own
21 officers down. In fact there was -- it wouldn't be going
22 -- it wouldn't be an exaggeration to say there was a very
23 mutinous mood in the RUC after the Anglo-Irish Agreement
24 because of the violent and hostile reaction of the Loyalist
25 and Protestant community to the Agreement, and there were
26 two or three years of very difficult Anglo-Irish relations
27 on the back of that because of the mood among the
28 Unionist/Loyalist community, and I think that Jack Hermon,
29 being the supreme pragmatist that he was, recognised that
30 he had to be publicly reassuring in case those situations
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 35
1 would flair up. You know, he always had to be mindful of
2 the fact that there could be a retaliation carried out by
3 Loyalists from the North. So, I think that there would
4 have been a high degree of public political pragmatism in
5 the way that he approached situations like that, while, at
6 the same time, privately, he would have been quite agitated
7 and concerned to get to the truth of the rumours, and, you
8 know, there was a history of difficulties on the
9 Newry-Dundalk axis, and I am sure that would have been, you
10 know, very much of concern to him.
11 91 Q. Did you know him personally?
12 A. Oh I did, yes. I was just about to say to you that, you
13 know, in all the years I knew Jack, I don't ever remember
14 him discussing Breen and Buchanan with me specifically,
15 but, you know, we did have many discussions about
16 cross-border security cooperation and things of that sort.
17 92 Q. Did he ever discuss concerns about leaks within An Garda
18 Siochana?
19 A. No, I don't recall him ever saying that to me or ever -- it
20 would have been other people, you know, in the command
21 circle who would have said that more, and working
22 detectives, things like that. Jack was, while he was quite
23 open and transparent in many ways, he was also very
24 circumspect and very -- he was old-fashioned in the amount
25 of things that he would disclose and he was also very
26 political in what he would disclose. As I said to you, he
27 would have been pragmatic politically for strong reasons.
28 He would have used people like me to send messages of
29 reassurance or to send messages of determination to do
30 something, that sort of thing. He regarded that as an
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 36
1 important part of his job as well.
2 93 Q. So the fact that he made a statement a day after the
3 murders of Breen and Buchanan that there was no concern
4 about a leak from Dundalk Garda Station, that doesn't
5 necessarily, from your experience, mean that that was his
6 real view?
7 A. No. In fact if that was Jack's real view, I'd be very
8 surprised, because there was pretty widespread concern
9 among his officers about the whole integrity of the
10 Newry-Dundalk axis and he would certainly have been aware
11 of that and would certainly have been made aware of it and
12 would certainly have been concerned about it. But, as I
13 say, one of the things he would have been conscious of was
14 that he wouldn't have wanted to do or say anything that
15 might have, for example, allowed some extreme loyalist
16 group to do something in the Republic in retaliation and
17 point to his words as justification for it. That was the
18 kind of tightrope he had to walk in the volatile
19 circumstances in which he worked.
20 94 Q. Just for the sake of clarity as well, specifically in
21 relation to your conversations with Harry Breen, did Harry
22 Breen ever mention the name Owen Corrigan to you?
23 A. No, he did not.
24 95 Q. There are just a few miscellaneous matters, Mr. Ryder.
25 First of all, you expressed the sentiment in your statement
26 that you were always surprised by how politically
27 controlled An Garda Siochana were, and also how overtly
28 political officers were?
29 A. Yes, because in Northern Ireland the police were not
30 directly politically controlled. There was a police
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 37
1 authority there as a buffer, and, for example, promotions
2 and things of that sort were all decided by the Chief
3 Constable; the senior officers were appointed by the police
4 authority. But down here, and the practice still exists,
5 there is no police authority, there never has been, and
6 senior appointments to the Garda are all approved at
7 cabinet level, and it has long been my experience that
8 senior members of the Garda are regarded as Fine Gael or
9 Fianna Fail men and those who are one persuasion or the
10 other tend to prosper when their own government is in
11 power. And that's not to say that the Garda are
12 politically motivated, but there is a heavy political
13 influence, and I think that's unhealthy myself in that --
14 96 Q. What is the effect of it? Why do you think it's unhealthy?
15 A. Because, it subjects the police to direct political control
16 and, you know, in the North, there are buffers to prevent
17 that. In the old days in the North, of course, that was
18 clearly the case; the Unionists worked the police with
19 their feet. But that was changed then, and it works quite
20 effectively that there is an independent buffer. There
21 have been several commitments down here to creating such an
22 independent buffer but when governments have got into power
23 they have quickly forgotten that promise and just
24 maintained the status quo. And so, you know, you would get
25 some officers would have been, would have been regarded as
26 Fianna Fail men or Fine Gael men, you know, I have heard
27 Garda officers described as that by their RUC counterparts.
28 But, knowing the way the system works here, I don't think
29 that that's -- it's not meant to be a criticism, it's a
30 statement of fact.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 38
1 97 Q. I think you also felt that the same was true of the Irish
2 army, is that correct?
3 A. No, I mean I just found it was very interesting on a number
4 of occasions when I had lunches with the Irish army
5 officers in their officers' messes, I always found them
6 very interesting because they were much more overtly
7 political about the country and about things than their
8 British Army counterparts would be. British Army
9 counterparts tended to focus on security issues and
10 military issues and things of that sort; their conversation
11 -- you know, they were very careful not to get involved in
12 the politics of the situation in Northern Ireland. Whereas
13 the Garda were much more -- or the Irish army, I found --
14 again it was only very limited interaction with them, but
15 it was just an interesting impression I had that they were
16 much more overtly political and much more interested in the
17 politics of the country.
18 98 Q. The final thing I want to ask you about, Mr. Ryder, is
19 about your knowledge you how intelligence and information
20 was processed, particularly two aspects. Do you have any
21 knowledge of how intelligence information was processed for
22 the Chief Constable of the RUC and also how was it
23 processed for the political establishment?
24 A. Well, there were a number of very high-powered committees.
25 The police had their own internal committees and the army
26 had their own internal committees, and then there were a
27 number of committees where the police and army operated
28 together at a very high level, and then there were other
29 committees where they interacted with the politicians with
30 the Secretary of State and his Security Minister, and they
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 39
1 were the coordinating meetings where ideas and operations
2 and issues were all discussed and policy taken. Some of
3 those meetings were about policy, some of them were about
4 operational activity, and then ultimately you had the
5 Director and Co-ordinator of intelligence who was in the
6 Northern Ireland Office and he would have been at the top
7 of the intelligence pyramid, everything that the police and
8 army were doing and what the security services were doing
9 would all have ended up on his desk, and he had some staff,
10 and part of his remit was to provide the intelligence
11 summaries which went to the Prime Minister, the Minister of
12 Defence, the Home Secretary, the Northern Ireland Minister,
13 and, you know, various other people who had a locus on
14 Northern Ireland affairs.
15 99 Q. And was he -- what was his background or who was that
16 person?
17 A. Well, the Director and Coordinator of Intelligence would
18 normally have been someone from MI5 or MI6; from the
19 security services.
20 100 Q. And they were based in Belfast?
21 A. They were based in Belfast. They operated from Stormont
22 Castle, at the annex in Stormont Castle.
23 101 Q. And all British security agencies operating in Northern
24 Ireland reported their intelligence to them to that they
25 could properly be --
26 A. Yeah, they were at the top of the pyramid. I mean
27 everything that was going on between the police and the
28 army, and they would have had information from the security
29 services and they would have also probably had electronic
30 surveillance information from GC HQ and things of that.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 40
1 But the place that it was all pulled together and analysed
2 and presented, then, to the Prime Minister and senior
3 ministers would have been through the office of the DCOI.
4 102 Q. The DC --
5 A. DCOI: Director and Coordinator of Intelligence.
6 103 Q. And once it had gone to that level, for example, would the
7 Chief Constable have access to the DCI's report, or was
8 that purely for the political establishment?
9 A. No, I think anything that the Chief Constable had would
10 have, you know, would have gone on to DCI, and the army the
11 same. But I mean, I think that the real substance of all
12 that material would have been discussed between the police
13 and the army, like the policy and the operations level, the
14 different committees that existed at that level. I know
15 that the Director and Coordinator was the person who, if
16 you like, pulled all that together and made sure that
17 people outside Northern Ireland were aware of it.
18 104 Q. And do you have any knowledge as to the level of
19 specificity that his reports would have? I mean, would
20 they deal with specific intelligence that had been received
21 or was it more a strategic overview of the security
22 operations?
23 A. No, those were obviously very sensitive documents, but my
24 understanding is that they would have contained, you know,
25 a lot of penetrating analysis of trends and backgrounds and
26 things of that sort. They would have highlighted current
27 and ongoing problems or upcoming problems, and that they
28 would have contained, when it was appropriate, you know,
29 quite specific information or quite important information,
30 and, you know, I would say that, for example, in the run-up
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 41
1 to the Anglo Irish Agreement, when all these security
2 initiatives were being discussed, that those documents
3 would have been very detailed indeed because they would
4 have been used to brief the Prime Minister for her part in
5 the negotiations and for her to authorise lines of
6 negotiation to be carried out or lines of negotiation to be
7 concluded, things of that sort. So there would have been
8 -- the background material for the likes of the Anglo Irish
9 Agreement would have been very comprehensive, detailed.
10 105 Q. Was the identity of the DCI known publicly or was it
11 because it was emanating from MI5 or MI6 was it cloaked in
12 secrecy?
13 A. No, it was always cloaked in secrecy. It was only years
14 after we found out the names of some of them.
15
16 MR. VALENTINE: Thank you very much, Mr. Ryder. If you
17 answer any questions My Friends might have.
18
19 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. DURACK AS FOLLOWS:
20
21 106 Q. MR. DURACK: Good afternoon, sir, my name is Michael Durack
22 and I appear for An Garda Siochana. Just a couple of
23 matters you might help us with.
24 A. Yes.
25 107 Q. The last issue you were dealing with was the intelligence
26 process --
27 A. Yes.
28 108 Q. -- in the North. I take it you have been keeping yourself
29 up to date with what's been happening there in Northern
30 Ireland?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 42
1 A. Not as much recently because I am more or less retired now.
2 109 Q. I think you'll be aware that the, there have been a number
3 of reports and historic incidents in the North?
4 A. Yes.
5 110 Q. And I think many of them have been very critical of the
6 intelligence-gathering system by the Special Branch and, in
7 fact, its sharing between various, should I say, various
8 agencies, put it that way?
9 A. Oh there have been, that's right.
10 111 Q. And they have been very much criticised?
11 A. Yes.
12 112 Q. And I think that in fact, I think the Billy Wright report
13 sets out that, in fact, the Special Branch was divided into
14 three areas and they didn't even necessarily share
15 information between themselves?
16 A. Yes, I think that's probably correct, yeah.
17 113 Q. And not necessarily with the British Army and certainly not
18 necessarily with An Garda Siochana?
19 A. There are all sorts of irregularities coming to light,
20 there is no doubt about that, yes.
21 114 Q. And what might have appeared to be a good system, may well
22 have been so disperse that it didn't work effectively at
23 all?
24 A. I think that it's too early to draw definitive conclusions.
25 I mean, we are seeing some glimpses of that secret world,
26 that invisible front line, if you like, but I think that it
27 would be wrong to draw any definitive conclusions. I think
28 we'll have to leave that to history. It would be wrong to
29 say that because one particular incident or one particular
30 circumstance revealed weaknesses, that those weaknesses
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 43
1 were systemic or endemic in the whole process. These were
2 things that went wrong. These were things that were stress
3 points. I am not necessarily arguing that the whole system
4 was absolutely a hundred percent right, and obviously there
5 were mistakes made, but I think it's far too early to try
6 and weigh any conclusions because we are only seeing
7 glimpses of some of these extreme cases and we are not
8 seeing all the details of the things that happened where
9 lives were saved, were atrocities were prevented and
10 indeed, I think that even history might not even see the
11 full story because lots of these things weren't even
12 written down.
13 115 Q. But certainly in many of those inquiries, rather than just
14 relating to specific incidents where there were slippages,
15 there were, in fact, many condemnations of the general
16 organisation?
17 A. Yes, there were, absolutely.
18 116 Q. In fact it was organisational difficulties?
19 A. It's very easy now to sit with hindsight and to criticise
20 people who had to take decisions that meant life and death
21 and, you know, a Special Branch officer with information
22 had to protect the source and he had to weigh up very
23 carefully if he acted on that information the source might
24 well be dead.
25 117 Q. I appreciate all of that. I am not --
26 A. You know, I am very reluctant to make any, or to draw any
27 conclusions of condemnation or praise or otherwise; I think
28 the jury is still out on all of that. And I would agree
29 with you, yes, there have been mistakes uncovered, serious
30 faults uncovered in fact, but I think that to use that and
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 44
1 extrapolate it to a general conclusion would be inaccurate
2 because there was much good work done and many, many
3 important things happened.
4 118 Q. I am not fighting about the fact that it was good work, but
5 what I am saying is that it was not a perfect system?
6 A. No, it was not a perfect system.
7 119 Q. And I think we heard, for instance, from a member of the
8 RUC who was dealing with intelligence, that in the ordinary
9 course when some written intelligence would come in, that
10 copies would be made of it and they would be distributed to
11 various files and they may or may not be distributed to
12 other parts of the organisation?
13 A. Well I mean, you know, it's pretty common ground now that
14 far too often the Special Branch had intelligence about the
15 people who committed crimes and they didn't tell the
16 detectives who were investigating the crimes. I mean,
17 there is no doubt that's the case. And, you know, they
18 used that -- the justification for that was they had to
19 protect their sources, their informers. But, you know,
20 when you get into that secret world there is no
21 accountability and no independent scrutiny of it, and it
22 opens a way to abuse and, you know, you can't rule out that
23 there was abuse, that there were people who did things for
24 the wrong reasons.
25 120 Q. And equally the military would have had their own
26 intelligence system which --
27 A. They did, they had a parallel intelligence system and quite
28 often they were at loggerheads with the police. I mean, I
29 remember being at a conference, by accident, I was in the
30 mess in the army office in Lisburn one day and I was with
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 45
1 somebody else and another guy came in who had been at the
2 police army conference and he said -- my military friend
3 said to him "How did you get on today?" He says, "Well, we
4 have learned one important thing from our conference this
5 morning: the army hate the RUC and the RUC hate the army."
6 So, you know, it wasn't a perfect system and there was
7 rivalries in it, there were personal rivalries in it.
8 There was all sorts of empire building went on. You know,
9 that's the way of the world.
10 121 Q. And I suppose it's the same in every organisation, there
11 are rivalries, etc., and I suppose as a journalist, I take
12 it you would be, in the ordinary course of things people
13 would use you, or use a journalist in general, to get out a
14 point of view?
15 A. Oh yes, that's quite correct, and, you know, it's part of
16 the professional skill of a journalist to distill the
17 information that he gleaned to try and present it in as
18 balanced and informed and as fair a way as possible, and
19 you have to always be aware of being used for devious
20 reasons by someone, that's quite correct.
21 122 Q. And while your main sources are military and the RUC, they
22 have their own axe to grind in respect of individual items?
23 A. Oh yes, of course.
24 123 Q. And I take it, equally, that the, that while that may be
25 propaganda, that equally there would be black propaganda
26 operated against, by either side against the other in the
27 war against terrorism?
28 A. But again I have to say that I was always very alert to the
29 possibility of black propaganda and I would have been very
30 wary of information and would have always tried to check it
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 46
1 independently where possible, and if there was any doubt at
2 all, then it just wouldn't have been printed or published.
3 124 Q. Because you are saying in relation to the Dundalk telephone
4 system, or at least the Garda telephone system, that
5 certainly it was put out and it was out there as a story
6 that it had been compromised in some way?
7 A. Yeah. But I mean, you could see the IRA would want to do
8 that for their own propaganda reasons. You would see the
9 authorities would want to clamp down on that for their
10 reason because they didn't want to admit that there is a
11 flaw. So that's the difficulty that a journalist faces in
12 a high intensive conflict, of trying to steer the middle
13 ground to find out where the solid ground is and where the
14 marshy ground is either side of it.
15 125 Q. You'll be aware, probably, that in fact this Tribunal has
16 heard much evidence from the technicians, the telephone
17 technicians, etc., at the time, and by and large they can
18 find no basis for any suggestion that the system was --
19 A. Yes, I am aware of that, yes. Much to the consternation of
20 the Phoenix.
21 126 Q. So that, in fact, things that become common beliefs are not
22 necessarily true?
23 A. Yes, I would accept that totally, yes.
24 127 Q. And while you, the view you have given us is, if you like,
25 a sort of a macro view about the lack of political
26 cooperation north and south etc., while we have had a
27 number of RUC officers come here and who were working in
28 the area and in the area of south Armagh and that
29 direction, most of them have said that they had very good
30 cooperation with their colleagues on the other side of the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 47
1 border and were very pleased with what they got?
2 A. Well I am a journalist and I am naturally cynical, and my
3 experience would be that it was a very mixed picture
4 indeed. That the public perception, or the public
5 statements were not always matched by what was actually
6 happening on the ground, and politicians were great ones
7 for putting a clause on things, even retrospectively, and
8 there has been some evidence given to this Tribunal that,
9 to put it no higher than that, caused my eyebrows to shoot
10 up a bit.
11 128 Q. But I suppose the point I am making is that the RUC members
12 are not compellable, nobody is compellable to come here
13 from outside the jurisdiction?
14 A. Oh, no.
15 129 Q. So the only people we are getting, in fact, are people who
16 are volunteering to come?
17 A. Yes.
18 130 Q. And they are not, as I say, reflecting, if you like, what
19 you describe as the macro view, that the total
20 dissatisfaction with work on the border, in the same way as
21 people told you?
22 A. I mean, I think many of the RUC officers would feel that
23 they owe it to Harry Breen and Bob Buchanan to try and
24 throw as much light as possible onto what happened to them.
25 They would feel that as fellow professional officers,
26 fellow professional police officers, that they have a duty
27 to try and help to throw as much light as possible on their
28 deaths and on the deaths of other innocent --
29 131 Q. The Chairman is very anxious that they would come forward
30 and give whatever information there is in relation to what
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 48
1 the situation was on the ground at the time.
2 A. Yes.
3 132 Q. And I suppose, again, just talking about the IRA press
4 statements, etc., and information, very often I would
5 imagine that's put out there to distract from the truth
6 rather than to elaborate on it?
7 A. Yes, absolutely. They want to get their propaganda out and
8 present themselves in the best possible light on every
9 occasion. And indeed they were pretty good at it.
10 133 Q. One of the issues that arose which was concerning me was
11 the killing of the Hanna family, and, as we know, they were
12 -- the information appears to be that they were driving a
13 Shogun Jeep?
14 A. Yes, they were. I mean I happened to know Mr. Hanna and I
15 lived in the same village as he did and I use to see him in
16 the morning when I was getting the papers and things. I
17 mean I was familiar with him and his vehicle.
18 134 Q. And that the composition of his family were two persons and
19 a young boy --
20 A. Yes, I just can't remember the details.
21 135 Q. -- at the time.
22 A. Yeah.
23 136 Q. And that in fact the vehicle being driven by the Higgins
24 was in fact a Datsun Sunny occupied by, clearly, much older
25 people, and four in total?
26 A. Yeah.
27 137 Q. And that in fact when the bomb was set off, the vehicles
28 were seven miles south of the border, in Castlebellingham I
29 think, but in the immediate aftermath of the killing of the
30 Hannas the IRA statement was in fact they were attempting
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 49
1 an attack on Crown forces?
2 A. Yes.
3 138 Q. And then subsequently they said that the bomb -- I mean,
4 almost immediately subsequently they said that the bomb had
5 been set off by the British Army electronically?
6 A. Yes, I mean that was the thing they frequently used; they
7 used that after the Enniskillen Remembrance Sunday bombing.
8 139 Q. But it was only a long time later that they discovered in
9 fact, or a significant time later when they discovered that
10 the Higgins were on their way that they claimed it was
11 aimed at the Higgins. So you can't believe what you are
12 told all the time?
13 A. No, I have just said that. I mean, as a journalist, it's
14 extremely difficult to work out, and that's why, you know,
15 given the difficult circumstances in Northern Ireland, one
16 always attempted to stick to facts that were verifiable.
17 You know, for example, the police would say, you know, that
18 two people have been killed, a bomb was detonated. You
19 know, would you then resist the temptation to go on and
20 embellish that information where possible in case that you
21 would get it wrong, or in case that you would give
22 credibility to one side or the other and we would always
23 say the IRA claimed but the security forces deny, you know,
24 so that you were presenting as comprehensive a picture as
25 it was possible to do.
26 140 Q. And in relation to the mole situation in Dundalk Station, I
27 think by and large that tended to come from politicians in
28 one side or the other making statements for the paper which
29 turned into headlines?
30 A. Well, these things sort of took a life of their own. You
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 50
1 know, once somebody started a rumour, this took a life of
2 their own and then, you know, you would read it in a
3 magazine or a paper or some article, and then it was
4 accepted as fact without ever being subjected to rigorous
5 forensic tests as to its truth.
6 141 Q. And I think, as you very fairly said in relation to the
7 Gibsons, that in fact what you were told on the day did not
8 in fact turn out to be the truth in the end of the day.
9 That we know that the --
10 A. Well, I mean my friend said to me that he thought that they
11 had been betrayed in some way. He didn't go beyond that.
12 But, you know, I don't think I have ever seen it proven
13 conclusively the fact that they booked their ferry passage
14 in their own name was the reason why they were targeted.
15 142 Q. Well I think that the information the Tribunal has is that
16 in fact they booked the passage in their own name, they
17 booked the hotels in their own name, they paid with their
18 own cheques or whatever, and I think they made no attempt
19 to disguise themselves?
20 A. Yes, I accept that. But it's another thing, then, to say
21 that that was the sort of their betrayal. You know, I
22 haven't seen anything, any convincing evidence that that's
23 how they were targeted, by the fact that all those passages
24 and things were in their own name. Neither have I seen
25 that there was convincing evidence that they were betrayed
26 by a mole in Dundalk.
27 143 Q. Exactly.
28 A. I mean, I think that's one of those things, you know, that
29 the Tribunal is going to have to focus on and decide what's
30 credible and what's not credible in these very difficult
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 51
1 and conflicting pieces of evidence.
2 144 Q. And certainly we know that there is information that they
3 in fact had travelled south towards the airport in Dublin
4 on something like I think four previous occasions?
5 A. Yes, I think I heard that.
6 145 Q. And they had been escorted by Gardaí from Dundalk --
7 A. Yes, I think I heard that.
8 146 Q. -- at various stages. And I think also around that
9 particular time I think there were attacks on a large
10 number of judges, I think there were a number of,
11 certainly, magistrates as well as more senior --
12 A. Yes, there was a consistent pattern of attacks on the
13 judiciary and people associated with the legal profession.
14 147 Q. And they were very high profile and they were being
15 specifically targeted?
16 A. Yes. I mean, I remember one day being close to Queens
17 University when there was an attempt made to shoot Sir
18 Robert Lowry.
19
20 MR. DURACK: It's just one o'clock, if you wish to break
21 for lunch, sir.
22
23 CHAIRMAN: Yes, I think we will resume at two o'clock.
24
25 MR. VALENTINE: Just, Chairman I have been asked to clarify
26 one thing and it's in so far as an impression may have been
27 created that the Hanna family were murdered in their
28 entirety. I do understand that there are two older --
29 David, the youngest son was killed in that atrocity -- and
30 there are two older children who weren't travelling and are
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 52
1 still alive and may well be following the proceedings.
2
3 MR. DURACK: I'm sorry.
4
5 CHAIRMAN: I want to say tomorrow morning there will be,
6 again I am afraid, a delay in starting procedures. A
7 member of the bar, Mr. Hunt, has died and is being buried
8 tomorrow morning and he has a number of close friends
9 amongst the counsel appearing before the Tribunal and they
10 want to attend the funeral, so we will begin at twelve
11 rather than eleven o'clock tomorrow morning.
12
13 MR. HAYES: Thank you very much for that, Chairman. Can I
14 also, just in respect of this afternoon's evidence, can I
15 make a brief application before you rise? Brigadier Liles
16 is due to give evidence this afternoon and he had
17 previously, of course, given evidence to you, but he is
18 back to give evidence in relation to matters of an
19 intelligence nature and they are intelligence matters which
20 could not be put fully in front of you were the evidence to
21 be taken in public, and for that reason, I would ask that
22 his evidence this afternoon be taken in private. But I
23 should make it clear that while, due to the sensitivity of
24 the nature of his evidence, I'd ask for it to be in
25 private, that as soon as can be afterwards, it is your
26 intention, I understand, to make as much of that evidence
27 as is possible to make public, and that you will publish it
28 within the next week or so.
29
30 CHAIRMAN: Yes, that's true. Brigadier Liles will be
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 53
1 giving evidence in relation to some very delicate
2 intelligence matters and there will be strong
3 representations made that that evidence should be taken in
4 private. Nevertheless, I have been in touch with the
5 authorities who made the intelligence available and what I
6 will do is, I'll examine the transcripts immediately
7 following Brigadier Liles' evidence and it will be vetted
8 and, as far as possible, it will be made available to the
9 public, probably within a week or so.
10
11 So then I think, therefore, I should grant the application
12 to have the hearing in private this afternoon under that
13 condition. So we'll sit again -- is there anything else?
14 I'll sit again at two o'clock.
15
16 THE TRIBUNAL ADJOURNED FOR LUNCH. 17
18
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21
22
23
24
25
26
27
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29
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 54
1 THE TRIBUNAL CONTINUED AFTER LUNCH AS FOLLOWS:
2
3 CHRIS RYDER CONTINUED TO BE CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. DURACK
4 AS FOLLOWS:
5
6 MR. VALENTINE: Chairman, just before Mr. Durack resumes
7 his cross-examination, I want to deal with one logistical
8 matter and it's this: because of Brigadier Liles' flight
9 arrangements, we will to commence his evidence no later
10 than 3:00. Now I anticipate that Mr. Ryder's evidence will
11 be finished by then but just in case it isn't, I want to
12 flag that now.
13
14 CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
15
16 148 Q. MR. DURACK: I think all the items, Mr. Ryder, that have
17 been, if you like, associated with the mole allegation, all
18 occurred around the Killeen stretch?
19 A. Yes.
20 149 Q. And I think I'm right in saying I don't think there ever
21 was an army or a post actually on the border?
22 A. No, I don't think there was, not actually on the border,
23 that's right.
24 150 Q. And in fact, the first --
25 A. The first one -- the nearest is probably the Dromad police
26 station, the little small police post just by, just on the
27 southern side of the border.
28 151 Q. Yes. But I think that in terms of the British Army RUC
29 presence, I think you are virtually into Newry -- sorry,
30 you are a mile or two down the road?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 55
1 A. You are at Clough, the permanent checkpoint was at Clough
2 but they regularly would have conducted snap checkpoints on
3 the stretch right down to the border.
4 152 Q. But the point is that that area from the border to that
5 post was, effectively, no man's land, virtually?
6 A. No, not at all, because it was under constant surveillance
7 from the towers.
8 153 Q. But nonetheless, the IRA were able to plant bombs along
9 that?
10 A. There is no doubt about that.
11 154 Q. That is how the incidents happened?
12 A. That's right.
13 155 Q. And I mean, I know that in some of the papers before the
14 Tribunal it's mentioned that, in fact, the army, when they
15 were expecting a VIP to cross the border from the south,
16 would actually sweep the road, I mean would check the road
17 to see there was nothing unusual between the border and
18 Clough?
19 A. Yes, so there was regular -- there was regular surveillance
20 on the road at times.
21 156 Q. And if that was so, they might well have found, if they had
22 done one, say, before the various murders we are talking
23 about, they may well have been in a position to prevent it?
24 A. It would depend whether the device was dug into the road
25 with the command wire or whether it was parked in a
26 vehicle. I mean a vehicle could be parked a very short
27 time beforehand, whereas if it was an improvised explosive
28 device that was dug in with a command wire or radio
29 controlled initiation, then that was detectible certainly
30 by a dog perhaps or...
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 56
1 157 Q. But equally that would have taken sometime to put in --
2 A. Oh yes, but I mean there are many occasions when they have
3 suspected something being in place and then they have had
4 to clear the area, sometimes it's taken up to five or six
5 days to clear it.
6 158 Q. Yes, indeed. And I think that in fact, while some of the
7 things dug into the road, some of them were vehicles just
8 left?
9 A. On the side of the road.
10 159 Q. On the side of road and gone. But again they could have
11 been seen from the tower, presumably?
12 A. My recollection is that there were some blind spots but, by
13 and large, there was pretty close surveillance of the
14 stretch of road.
15 160 Q. But nonetheless, it wasn't perfect?
16 A. It wasn't perfect, no. And I mean, things could be done at
17 night that they might not have detected, either.
18 161 Q. You were telling us about the watchtowers and what their
19 function was and that they had very strong binoculars for
20 long distance viewing?
21 A. Yes, I think they also had some night vision capability as
22 well.
23 162 Q. Certainly that was common at the time?
24 A. Well, it was developing, you know, I think it was one of
25 those technical innovations that gathered pace through the
26 seventies and eighties. I mean it's now very sophisticated
27 night vision, but I think in those days it was probably in
28 its infancy still.
29 163 Q. It was nonetheless, certainly within --
30 A. Oh, there was some night vision capability, yes.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 57
1 164 Q. And I think in relation to CB radios and walkie-talkies, I
2 think they were very common in the seventies and eighties?
3 A. Yes, but that was the era before the mobile telephone and
4 they were easily intercepted with sophisticated scanners, I
5 understand.
6 165 Q. And I think they were relatively cheap too. I think every
7 trucker in the country had one as well as an awful lot
8 others?
9 A. Yes, and you could buy walkie-talkies sets easily as well
10 will.
11 166 Q. And they were something that could be listened to and
12 intercepted?
13 A. Yes, I understand that.
14 167 Q. And certainly we have heard evidence that scanners were
15 found in various suspects' houses?
16 A. Yes, I am sure they were indeed.
17 168 Q. That were capable of listening to both the RUC traffic and
18 the Garda traffic?
19 A. Yes, that's right.
20 169 Q. And what is your understanding about the listening capacity
21 of the towers?
22 A. Not very much other than that there was some listening
23 capacity, what the technical details are, I don't know, but
24 I do understand that there was some listening capacity.
25 170 Q. I often heard it said that the tower at the border, you one
26 I think you referred to as Romeo 14, that that could hear
27 what people were saying in motor cars that were going
28 through?
29 A. I don't know that. It's a little bit James Bond-ey. But
30 there was certainly, there was some capacity to intercept
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 58
1 communications and there was certainly a capacity for
2 physical and electronic surveillance. I do know that at
3 one stage they introduced roadside cameras which could
4 focus and read the number plates of cars, there was an
5 operator who was able to read the number plates of cars.
6 There was a bump put on the road to slow the car down and
7 then the camera was focused so that it would get the car
8 number plate, and there were operators there who would type
9 in the car number to a computer system, and that not only
10 logged the movements of vehicles but it also logged the
11 movements of suspect vehicles and could create an alert
12 when a vehicle of interest to them was monitored.
13 171 Q. Yes, we certainly, the Tribunal has seen evidence of that,
14 too. And was it a fact that they had to actually type in
15 the numbers or were they computerised?
16 A. That's my understanding, that the numbers were typed in by
17 an operator.
18 172 Q. And I take it that all of this information could have been
19 fed -- was fed back immediately to Headquarters?
20 A. Well, I think it was filtered. I mean, the Brigade, the
21 Operational Brigade Headquarters would have had overall
22 responsibility in that area. More serious things would
23 have gone all the way back to army headquarters in Lisburn
24 and to police headquarters in Belfast, but things that were
25 just happening locally would have been dealt with in, they
26 were called TAORs, tactical areas of responsibility, so the
27 local units would have had a TAOR and they would have dealt
28 with things there and referred them upwards when the need
29 arose.
30 173 Q. The point I am making really is that they are not just
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 59
1 isolated sitting there collecting information?
2 A. Oh no.
3 174 Q. They are able to pass the information in realtime if it's
4 relevant?
5 A. Yes, if something really important happened that would be
6 flashed right through the whole system right up to the top,
7 very quickly.
8 175 Q. And certainly if anything appeared to the IRA, activity in
9 the area or activity they couldn't account for, it could
10 immediately be passed on to the next responsible area?
11 A. Yes, and I mean, they would also have checked to see if
12 anybody else knew of something that was going on that they
13 should know about, they could then rule out perhaps if
14 there was some suspicious activity emerged, they could then
15 check back and say well, maybe somebody else is involved in
16 that so it's nothing to worry about or it is something to
17 worry about.
18 176 Q. Do you know was there ever consideration given to actually
19 having an army post on the border rather than, as I say,
20 leaving that Killeen stretch open?
21 A. No, the only way they felt that they could get away with
22 that was if it was jointly manned with the Irish army,
23 because otherwise it would have been too vulnerable and
24 would have been very difficult to protect. I mean, even
25 when the post was as far as back as Clough, it regularly
26 came under attack. I mean, at one stage they trundled a
27 bomb down the railway line and it exploded killing a
28 sentry, and on other occasions they used proxy vehicles to
29 attack it, so the fact that it would have been on the
30 actual border would have rendered it very vulnerable indeed
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 60
1 and made it very dangerous for those who would have to stay
2 there.
3 177 Q. And I think then if you move off the road and into south
4 Armagh over towards Jonesboro and the rest of that, that
5 the geography there is very difficult?
6 A. It is, there is no doubt. That's why the hilltop
7 observation posts were quite important and they only moved
8 there by air and by foot across very carefully screened
9 routes because of the danger of IEDs having been planted in
10 the side of the road or ambushes having been set up.
11 178 Q. And I think that the evidence we have heard is something up
12 to two miles away from the border, in fact, was again
13 virtually no man's land and could only be entered, as you
14 say, with helicopters?
15 A. Helicopters and foot patrols, that's right. But it was
16 never not patrolled. It was just patrolled with great
17 circumspection and quite often they would have used covert
18 patrols lying out for days on end and watching for activity
19 or watching a particular premises if they thought something
20 was going on there.
21 179 Q. But it was because it was unable to be patrolled that there
22 was the opportunity for people to use the border as an
23 escape route?
24 A. Well, it's because of its proximity to the border that it
25 was used as a escape route; it was very easy to come into
26 Crossmaglen and attack the police army post there and
27 within a couple of minutes one was back across the border
28 in safety.
29 180 Q. I take it you would accept just in relation -- you said
30 that there was no provision for army to army --
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 61
1 A. Contact.
2 181 Q. -- contact?
3 A. Yes.
4 182 Q. I think you will accept the position, of course, in the
5 south because the south wasn't in the same difficulties as
6 the North was at the time, that the army only worked in
7 assistance to the civil power rather than --
8 A. Well that was the legal position in the North, too. But I
9 don't think that was a particular cause of difficulty. I
10 mean, as I said to you, the bomb disposal officers worked
11 in close proximity to each other. I know on a number of
12 occasions the British army bomb disposal officers visited
13 the south and had regular liaison with their counterparts
14 here so they were able to exchange information with them
15 about the sort of bombs they might encounter.
16 183 Q. I think I am told that the army had direct contact with
17 London in relation to bomb disposal and that is how it --
18 A. It did at that level as well, that's correct, yes.
19 184 Q. But, by and large, it appears that your understanding is
20 that a lot of the, a lot of what went on actually on the
21 border there was a fair amount of cooperation, whatever
22 about the megaphone diplomacy that was going on otherwise?
23 A. Yes, there was some cooperation but it was pretty minuscule
24 when measured against the enormity of the conflict and the
25 toll of life in the North and the suffering and hurt that
26 was caused in the North by the ease with which the IRA
27 could come across the border and escape to virtual immunity
28 in the south.
29 185 Q. But isn't it also a fact that an awful lot of the trouble
30 in the North arose within the North and stayed within the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 62
1 North?
2 A. That's correct but --
3 186 Q. I mean what happened in Derry and in Belfast had nothing to
4 do with the South?
5 A. No, but there was a southern dimension to it because of the
6 way that the IRA operated and the way that they used this
7 state as a refuge, as a supply line, as an operating base,
8 a training base even. So, it would be wrong for anybody
9 here to try and wash their hands of any involvement in the
10 conflict.
11 187 Q. No, I don't think anybody is trying to wash their hands of
12 it, but it does appear that your sources of information are
13 exclusively the military and the RUC in North?
14 A. Not exclusively. I would have had lots of contact with
15 politicians, with local councillors, with people who lived
16 in these areas. I knew from first-hand, having visited
17 people in isolated border farms, in isolated rural border
18 communities, the peril that they felt they lived under
19 because of this IRA threat.
20 188 Q. I appreciate that. But your contacts were not with anybody
21 in the South?
22 A. I had some contacts with people in the South. I mean, I
23 would have had contacts regularly with diplomats and
24 officials and politicians in the South, and some contact
25 with the Garda and the Irish army, although nothing like
26 the intensity of the contact I would have had with security
27 forces in the North.
28 189 Q. Because from time to time one gets the impression that
29 journalists given a specific task or assigned to a specific
30 area of responsibility become virtually adopted by the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 63
1 people that they are reporting, at least whose interests
2 they are reporting on; one always thinks of it being
3 embedded with the army in Iraq, etc., and that you are
4 really getting a lot of one side of the story rather than
5 anything of the other side?
6 A. Well, I think if my work over the years was subjected to
7 any sort of forensic scrutiny, that that accusation
8 wouldn't stand against me.
9 190 Q. But it's, as I say, it is the way information and
10 propaganda works, isn't that right?
11 A. Oh, yes, that's true at a theoretical level, yes.
12 191 Q. I am not attacking you personally at all in relation to
13 this, thank you very much indeed.
14
15 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN AS
16 FOLLOWS:
17
18 192 Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Good afternoon, Mr. Ryder, I appear for
19 Owen Corrigan. You were a journalist covering Northern
20 Ireland for a period of about 40 years, isn't that correct?
21 A. That's correct.
22 193 Q. And would you agree with me that being a journalist
23 covering the Troubles in Northern Ireland in the 1970s and
24 1980s, wasn't a particularly glamorous job?
25 A. Indeed not.
26 194 Q. It was a dangerous time for journalists as well?
27 A. It was a dangerous time for anybody, yes.
28 195 Q. Are you aware of that since the ceasefire a number of
29 individuals have published books about their involvement in
30 the Troubles and how they were centrally involved and they
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 64
1 have made money out of these books?
2 A. I am aware there have been a lot of books published and I
3 would very much doubt if anybody has made any money out of
4 them.
5 196 Q. Have you read Kevin Fulton's book which is modestly
6 entitled "Unsung Hero"?
7 A. No.
8 197 Q. Are you aware of Kevin Fulton?
9 A. I don't know him. I know of him.
10 198 Q. Have you ever met him?
11 A. No.
12 199 Q. You never met him. When did you first become aware of him,
13 sir?
14 A. I think when he surfaced and began to make all sorts of
15 claims about his activities and his role in events.
16 200 Q. And would it be fair to say that that is around 1999, 2000?
17 A. Yes, I think it would have all have been post ceasefire.
18 201 Q. Yes, I think it is. Had you ever heard of him as a member
19 of the IRA in the late 1980s, at the time of the late
20 1980s?
21 A. Not that I recall.
22 202 Q. Had you ever heard of him from your contacts within the RUC
23 as being somebody who worked for the RUC?
24 A. No, not that I recall.
25 203 Q. OK. Are you aware as to whether Kevin Fulton receives
26 money for providing stories to newspapers?
27 A. No.
28 204 Q. The reason I asked you that is you wrote an article in The
29 Irish Times on 25th of June, 2002, which was about the
30 ongoing dispute between Sir Ronnie Flanagan and Nuala
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 65
1 O'Loan about the Omagh bombing, you remember that, sir,
2 don't you?
3 A. I don't remember the precise article but no doubt you will
4 remind me.
5 205 Q. I am not trying to trick you out, it's just you referred to
6 the response of Sir Ronnie Flanagan to Nuala O'Loan, who
7 had adopted certain of the propositions that were put to
8 her by Kevin Fulton?
9 A. Yes, I think he described Fulton as not being of a very
10 trustworthy or reliable nature.
11 206 Q. Yes. Sir Ronnie Flanagan, on behalf of the RUC,
12 effectively discredited Fulton in his response and --
13 A. Yes.
14 207 Q. And you published or wrote a story for the Irish Times
15 which it published on 25th January 2002, and I just want to
16 read out the first two sentences of it because it relates
17 to a matter I want to ask you about. It's entitled: "Sir
18 Ronnie delivers his punch and we now await the third and
19 final round:
20 Early last summer a former police informer known as
21 Kevin Fulton had convinced a British Sunday newspaper
22 that if his advance warning had been properly.
23 followed up, the Omagh bombing in August 1998 could
24 have been prevented.
25 However, before printing the story and handing over
26 £50,000, the newspaper insisted on one final check.
27 Contact was made with the recently retired Chief.
28 Superintendent Eric Anderson to check the veracity of
29 the story."
30 And then your article continues.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 66
1 A. Yes.
2 208 Q. I am just wondering, and what I am interested in is how you
3 were aware that the newspaper was offering Fulton £50,000
4 at that time?
5 A. I think the newspaper concerned was The Mail on Sunday and
6 I think it was pretty common currency that that transaction
7 was being talked about. I think at that stage, Fulton was
8 touting his stories around various newspapers, and I am
9 only reporting that third-hand. I wasn't involved in any
10 negotiation like that and I obviously would base that on
11 information that I had gleaned from, probably, Mr. Anderson
12 and possibly Sir Ronnie Flanagan as well, and, you know,
13 other people who would have, in the newspaper world, who
14 would have known that that was on.
15 209 Q. And you believed the information you were given to be
16 accurate, otherwise you wouldn't have put it in the
17 newspaper?
18 A. I was satisfied with what I was told by the various
19 sources.
20 210 Q. And are you aware of how widespread was the practice of
21 Kevin Fulton going around to newspapers trying to hawk his
22 stories?
23 A. No. I mean, as I say, I never had any dealings with him.
24 211 Q. Yes. The sum of £50,000 that a newspaper would pay an
25 individual for a story, am I naive in thinking that that is
26 a considerably large amount of money to be offered for a
27 story such as this?
28 A. I don't know. I was never involved in cheque-book
29 journalism like that so I have no idea what it was worth or
30 what his story would be worth, and, you know, very often
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 67
1 these things were exaggerated.
2 212 Q. But your belief, in any event, is that Kevin Fulton was
3 looking for money for his story from The Mail on Sunday?
4 A. Yes, I mean I think it was widely known among journalists
5 that The Mail on Sunday was about to publish this story and
6 that, as a result of the last minute checks, they pulled
7 out of it and the last minute checks were with Sir Ronnie
8 and Eric Anderson, who was the investigating officer for
9 Omagh at that time, and I think it was quite widely known
10 among the journalistic fraternity, at the very least, that
11 this is what had happened. Newspapers keep a very close
12 eye on each other and what they are doing.
13 213 Q. Are you aware from your own involvement at the time, sir,
14 as to whether or not Fulton approached any of the
15 newspapers you were working for at the time --
16 A. No.
17 214 Q. -- trying to sell his story?
18 A. No, I never had any dealings with Fulton at all.
19 215 Q. Yes. But you would be aware from keeping yourself abreast
20 of what is happening --
21 A. Only in the most general way.
22 216 Q. Yes. But you obviously read Sir Ronnie's response to Nuala
23 O'Loan's account of Kevin Fulton and that that was what
24 your article was based on, isn't that so?
25 A. Yes, I can't remember whether that was a written statement
26 by Sir Ronnie or whether it was an interview he gave or...
27 217 Q. It was a detailed written statement he had prepared in
28 reply.
29 A. Yes, that is the suspicion I have but I am just not
30 entirely sure.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 68
1 218 Q. Like, I am conscious Mr. Fulton isn't here but he will be
2 coming to give evidence, but would you agree with me,
3 Mr. Ryder, that there are serious question-marks over the
4 reliability of Kevin Fulton's accounts of what happened in
5 the past?
6 A. I can't give any direct testimony to that because I don't
7 know Mr. Fulton, I have never met him, I have never
8 interviewed him, I have never had a chance to test his
9 credibility and, you know, I didn't want to make up my mind
10 about him unless I had personally interviewed him and
11 personally checked out his reports or his claims of his
12 activities, so I am afraid I can't help you on that.
13 219 Q. Would you regard Ronnie Flanagan as a man of integrity who
14 sought to --
15 A. Sir Ronnie Flanagan steered the RUC through very difficult
16 times in a very courageous way, and I have no reason to
17 doubt Sir Ronnie's veracity or integrity in any way. I
18 have never come across anything that persuaded me that he
19 did anything other than for the highest possible motives.
20 220 Q. And you may not want to comment about Mr. Fulton, but
21 certainly if Sir Ronnie Flanagan issued a public statement
22 raising serious question marks over the reliability of
23 Kevin Fulton, that's something that would have to be
24 considered seriously by anyone who is reflecting on
25 Fulton's --
26 A. It is. I mean Mr. Fulton has a remedy at law, if he
27 believes that Sir Ronnie has defamed him he has a remedy at
28 law, and Sir Ronnie, I think, knowing that Mr. Fulton had a
29 remedy at law, would not have issued that statement unless
30 he had compelling factual evidence to support it.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 69
1 221 Q. You worked, Mr. Ryder, with the Daily Telegraph until 1993,
2 I think?
3 A. That's correct.
4 222 Q. Toby Harnden also worked with the Daily Telegraph. Did he
5 work with the Telegraph at the same time as you?
6 A. No, he came to Northern Ireland when I left.
7 223 Q. Is he a friend of yours?
8 A. I know him slightly.
9 224 Q. The reason I ask, it's sometimes difficult for people who
10 are friends of others --
11 A. No, I know him very slightly.
12 225 Q. OK. Did you read his book Bandit Country?
13 A. I don't think I did. I think I might have skimmed through
14 bits of it.
15 226 Q. Yes. If you are trying to find the acorn that's given
16 growth to this Tribunal, that acorn is Bandit Country, the
17 book, because in Bandit Country Mr. Harnden states that
18 Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent Buchanan were
19 murdered as a result of a Garda tip-off. Were you aware of
20 that, sir?
21 A. I was aware of that proposition before Mr. Harnden
22 published his book. I mean, that was pretty common
23 currency among police officers and journalists and others
24 long before Toby Harnden published his book. He picked
25 that up and teased it out, then, for the purposes of
26 writing his book.
27 227 Q. Well, it was the immediate, I suppose, circumstance giving
28 rise to this Tribunal because it resulted in statements
29 being made by Jeffrey Donaldson; it resulted in articles by
30 Kevin Myers; the Garda investigation; and then the Weston
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 70
1 Park Agreement and the Cory Report into a number of events?
2 A. Yes.
3 228 Q. So in that regard I was indicating that it was one of the
4 initiators of this Tribunal. Were you aware that in his
5 book, Bandit Country, Toby Harnden relies on two vital
6 pieces of information for his assertion that there was
7 Garda collusion, and the first was that there was technical
8 information that the call from Dundalk Garda Station was
9 made to the IRA; were you aware that he had stated that in
10 his book, sir?
11 A. I wasn't aware he had stated it in his book, but over the
12 years I had heard various versions of how the ambush was
13 mounted and how they were tipped off and that included that
14 the car was followed, that somebody was observing the
15 police station, that somebody in the police station had
16 telephoned. There were a whole series of theories, all of
17 which have been rehearsed before the Tribunal and so I
18 cannot -- I do not have the knowledge or the evidence or
19 the factual certainty to be able to say one thing or the
20 other, and I was just aware of all those various theories.
21 229 Q. Were you aware of the theory that there was technical
22 information available that a call from Dundalk Garda
23 Station was made to the IRA?
24 A. Yes, I had heard that claimed but, you know, I had never
25 heard anything authoritatively that one would have said
26 yes, that is the truth or that is what happened.
27 230 Q. I appreciate that, but if that evidence could be proven, it
28 would be exceptionally powerful information suggesting
29 Garda collusion, wouldn't it?
30 A. Well it would. And I mean, there is a wealth of allegation
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 71
1 of Garda collusion, there is a lot of circumstantial
2 evidence of Garda collusion, and there are all sorts of
3 conflicting theories about the facts as they are known, and
4 you know, it's really not a matter for me, it's a matter
5 for the Tribunal to weigh those and decide what credibility
6 to give each of the factors and what credibility to give
7 each of the theories.
8 231 Q. I agree with that, sir, obviously, but we have somebody who
9 is expert in knowledge of Northern Ireland at this
10 particular time and that's why I am just trying to probe
11 what you know about it?
12 A. I mean, I think to help you, I do not know anything factual
13 or first-hand that would help you or the Tribunal in
14 relation to those specific theories or rumours. I was
15 privy and heard them the same as everybody else did.
16 232 Q. So I was putting to you two vital pieces of evidence that
17 Toby Harnden relied on: First, that there was technical
18 information that a call from Dundalk Garda Station was made
19 to the IRA. Did you hear that as a rumour beforehand?
20 A. Yes, certainly before Mr. Harnden's book came out, yeah.
21 233 Q. And a second vital piece of evidence that Mr. Harnden
22 included in his book was that he said a retired Garda
23 Detective Inspector confirmed to him that the tip-off had
24 come from a fellow garda. Like, had you heard that before,
25 that a retired --
26 A. No.
27 234 Q. You hadn't heard that?
28 A. No, I never heard that.
29 235 Q. And those two pieces of evidence together are fairly
30 significant, would you agree, in suggesting Garda
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 72
1 collusion?
2 A. If they are true.
3 236 Q. Oh, absolutely.
4 A. Yes.
5 237 Q. If they were true, they --
6 A. If they are true, then they would certainly point to a
7 degree of Garda collusion.
8 238 Q. But the reason I bring them to your attention is because
9 neither of them is true, and the Tribunal has been able to
10 see correspondence from the RUC dated 15th of September,
11 2000, where the RUC confirmed to An Garda Siochana that
12 there was no -- they have no technical information, they
13 have no evidence suggesting a call was made from Dundalk
14 Garda Station to the IRA.
15 A. Well, I can't contradict that if that is RUC evidence.
16 239 Q. Would you agree with me that that casts doubt upon what
17 Toby Harnden has said in his book?
18 A. I think that is for the Tribunal to decide, not me.
19 240 Q. I know it is for the Tribunal to decide that, but what do
20 you think?
21 A. I don't know. I mean, I am not in possession of all the
22 facts, and without being in possession of all the facts I
23 am reluctant draw a conclusion.
24 241 Q. OK. Here is another piece of information that the Tribunal
25 has: The Garda Detective Inspector who allegedly told Toby
26 Harnden that the tip-off had come from a fellow guard has
27 taken the oath in that box there and he has told the
28 Chairman that he never said that to Toby Harnden. Wouldn't
29 that cast doubt on the accuracy of what Toby Harnden is
30 stating?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 73
1 A. Well, on the surface, yes. But I mean the officer may well
2 have perjured himself, you can't rule that out, that's not
3 for me to decide.
4 242 Q. Well the officer has come to give evidence. We are waiting
5 on Mr. Harnden to give evidence but...
6 A. I think you will have to tease that out with Mr. Harnden.
7 I am not in position to give you a comment on that one way
8 or the other.
9 243 Q. You mentioned that in the 1970s and 1980s there was general
10 wariness between RUC and An Garda Siochana, isn't that
11 correct?
12 A. Yes, that would be my impression.
13 244 Q. I don't think that was a wariness that was limited to
14 police officers on the island. There would have been
15 wariness between politicians north and south as well, isn't
16 that so?
17 A. Certainly, yes. I mean, would have been some very critical
18 politicians in the North about the policies in the -- in
19 the implementation of security policy in the South. I
20 mean, some of that was exchanged in public and in very
21 emotional ways sometimes.
22 245 Q. Yes, yes. My client, Owen Corrigan, agrees with you that
23 there was mutual distrust between An Garda Siochana and the
24 RUC during the 1970s into the 1980s. Were you aware how
25 close my client, Mr. Corrigan, was to Brian Fitzsimons?
26 A. No.
27 246 Q. You met --
28 A. Except for the one occasion in which I met the two of them
29 together.
30 247 Q. You met in 1978 in the La Mon Hotel. What position did
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 74
1 Mr. Fitzsimmons have at that time, sir?
2 A. That was the very first time I'd met Mr. Fitzsimmons, and
3 my understanding was that he was a senior officer in the
4 Special Branch in Belfast Police Headquarters.
5 248 Q. And he was, unfortunately, killed in the helicopter crash?
6 A. The helicopter crash on the Mull of Kintyre.
7 249 Q. And how important, from your knowledge of him, looking back
8 on his life, how important a figure was he in the
9 intelligence network in Northern Ireland?
10 A. Well I now understand he was quite a pivotal important
11 figure in the senior echelons of the Special Branch all
12 through those years of the Troubles. I mean, I got to know
13 him sort of better after that and met him from time to
14 time.
15 250 Q. Would you have regarded him as a shrewd man?
16 A. Oh, very much so, yes.
17 251 Q. You met Owen Corrigan in 1978 and --
18 A. No, sometime before 1978.
19 252 Q. Sorry, sometime before 1978. And he was there with Brian
20 Fitzsimons, and who else?
21 A. That's correct.
22 253 Q. Was it just the two of them there?
23 A. Yes, there was just the two of them.
24 254 Q. And you were there with Mr. Cruchley, isn't that so?
25 A. That's correct, yes.
26 255 Q. And then you went on to state that subsequently you met
27 Mr. Corrigan in the toilet and he said if you were looking
28 for stories, that you could contact him?
29 A. Yes, that's correct.
30 256 Q. Is there anything unusual about -- by the way, I dispute
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 75
1 this and I will come back to that but I just want to deal
2 with it in the generality -- was that unusual in your walk
3 of life at that stage, that police officers would offer you
4 assistance?
5 A. No, it wasn't unusual that police officers would offer
6 assistance, what was unusual was that they asked for money.
7 257 Q. And what he said to you, your words were "there'd be a few
8 bob in it for me, wouldn't there?"
9 A. Words to that effect.
10 258 Q. Words to that effect. Now, I will come back to what
11 Mr. Corrigan says about that in due course. But by stating
12 that, that isn't evidence that Mr. Corrigan is, in some
13 respect, a sophisticated IRA mole, is it?
14 A. I never claimed he was a sophisticated IRA mole. I just
15 simply recounted the encounter I had with him and the
16 details of it.
17 259 Q. Yes. No, the reason -- in fairness, I know you didn't say
18 that but obviously the Tribunal is looking at that
19 particular issue here.
20 A. Yes.
21 260 Q. And would you agree with me it would be unusual for an IRA
22 volunteer, in effect, is what Mr. Corrigan would be if he
23 was working for the IRA, to be basing himself in the La Mon
24 Hotel with Brian Fitzsimons having a drink on an afternoon
25 in the mid-1970s; that's not the behaviour you would
26 associate with somebody who is spying for the IRA, is it?
27 A. Well, I don't know. I mean those were strange days and
28 strange times and many strange things happened. Clearly,
29 Mr. Fitzsimmons had some good reason to spend time with
30 Mr. Corrigan and speak to him. I don't know what business
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 76
1 they were transacting that day and at that stage I had no
2 reason to suspect Mr. Corrigan of anything, but what did
3 shock me was that he asked me for money for stories, and
4 that is the extent of my allegation against him.
5 261 Q. Yes.
6 A. That never before and never since has a police officer ever
7 asked me for money for stories.
8 262 Q. Evidence has been given to the Chairman by other witnesses
9 that Brian Fitzsimons and Owen Corrigan were very close and
10 that they had a close professional relationship in terms of
11 intelligence gathering and intelligence transfer. You have
12 no reason to dispute that?
13 A. I have no reason to -- I cannot agree or disagree with
14 that. All I know is that I saw them together on one
15 occasion.
16 263 Q. Yes.
17 A. Anything else that I would say beyond that would be
18 speculation.
19 264 Q. Evidence has also been given by other RUC officers, and I
20 won't go through it in detail, indicating that Owen
21 Corrigan provided a valuable source of intelligence and
22 valuable cooperation to the Royal Ulster Constabulary
23 during these difficult years. Do you have any basis to
24 dispute that, Mr. Ryder?
25 A. No, if that is their evidence, then that has to be taken
26 for what its worth. I have no evidence to dispute it or to
27 disagree with it.
28 265 Q. And I don't know if you are aware that one RUC officer gave
29 evidence to the Chairman that, in fact, Owen Corrigan had
30 saved his life from an IRA murder ambush. I don't know if
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 77
1 you were aware of that?
2 A. No.
3 266 Q. OK. When we got your statement, I asked for instructions
4 from Mr. Corrigan as to what his response was in respect of
5 the allegation about the La Mon Hotel and what you say is
6 him seeking money?
7 A. Yes.
8 267 Q. And I just want to tell you what he says and then ask you
9 two or three questions on it. Mr. Corrigan recalls a night
10 at the La Mon House Hotel. He does not recall being
11 introduced to Chris Ryder. Brian Fitzsimons pointed him,
12 Chris Ryder out, when he was sitting at the bar. He was a
13 heavy-set fellow. Brian Fitzsimons told him who he was and
14 to be careful. He said 'he will attempt to engage you in
15 conversation, he is very close to MI5, be careful what you
16 say to him'.
17 So that is Mr. Corrigan's response in respect of the
18 introduction. I will come on to the money point in due
19 course.
20 A. First of all, it wasn't a night, it was a lunchtime.
21 268 Q. OK. You say it was lunch as opposed to a night, OK?
22 A. Mm-hmm.
23 269 Q. What time did you leave at?
24 A. Oh, probably half past three, four o'clock, something like
25 that.
26 270 Q. And do you know whether Mr. Fitzsimmons and Mr. Corrigan
27 stayed on?
28 A. I can't recall, to be truthful.
29 271 Q. OK. So in fairness to him, I would have thought that that
30 isn't an issue of huge dispute between you?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 78
1 A. No, no, but it was a lunchtime, it was a late lunchtime,
2 yes.
3 272 Q. Yes. I suppose what Mr. Corrigan is stating, first of all,
4 is that he wasn't introduced to you, that you were just
5 identified by Brian Fitzsimons?
6 A. Well that is not true. I mean, Mr. Corrigan gave me his
7 card. I have turned high and low to see if I can still --
8 if I still happen to have the card but I haven't been able
9 to turn it up.
10 273 Q. I will come on to that in due course, Mr. Ryder. One of
11 the things that Mr. Corrigan will say when he comes to give
12 evidence is that he was told by Brian Fitzsimons that you
13 were very close to MI5. Were you close to MI5 at that
14 time?
15 A. No, I didn't know a soul in MI5. And that was an
16 allegation that was regularly made against me by people of
17 a Republican disposition. But someone as senior as Brian
18 Fitzsimons in the Special Branch and other police officers
19 would never have said that because they would have known it
20 was untrue. I had been approached many years earlier by
21 someone who said that MI5 would be interested in talking to
22 me and I made it very clear that I had no interest in
23 talking to them, least of all becoming a source for them.
24 And never again was that sort of approach made to me.
25 274 Q. Mr. Corrigan also states in respect of the, what is called
26 the restroom or the toilet encounter, that is where you say
27 Mr. Corrigan was in the toilet and you went in after him,
28 isn't that correct?
29 A. I can't remember. I remember the conversation.
30 275 Q. He says that what you say never happened. He says that he
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 79
1 did not have a card with a Garda crest on it and he says
2 the RUC had such cards but not members of An Garda
3 Siochana.
4 A. Well, my honest recollection is that he gave me a card with
5 phone numbers on it and that there was a Garda crest and he
6 was described on it as 'Detective Sergeant Owen Corrigan'.
7 And it was because of that encounter and the fact that he
8 gave me his card that I remembered his name. And for him
9 to say that he wasn't introduced to me is totally
10 incorrect.
11 276 Q. Well, I suppose in fairness to both of you, it was a long
12 time ago?
13 A. It is a long time ago but because it was such -- it was an
14 encounter that was so memorable to me because of the fact
15 that he asked me for money, that it stuck in my head, and I
16 remembered his name because of that.
17 277 Q. Well, my instructions are he denies that, and you say it
18 happened?
19 A. Well then the Tribunal can decide in the balance whether my
20 evidence is credible enough for him to accept it or whether
21 they prefer Mr. Corrigan's denial.
22 278 Q. OK. Well, I suppose, unlike most issues that this Tribunal
23 has to deal with, that issue is not an issue of huge
24 significance?
25 A. No, it's not of huge significance, that's right.
26 279 Q. Now, you mentioned in your evidence, and I find it very
27 interesting, you stated in respect of something else, you
28 said once a rumour started it took on a life of its own.
29 Now, obviously, during the Troubles very many rumours
30 started about people or about events and they gathered
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 80
1 traction, such as the suggestion there that you were
2 associated with MI5?
3 A. Yes, that is quite right.
4 280 Q. So isn't it the case that in Northern Ireland, during this
5 period, rumours were put about about people that were
6 completely false?
7 A. There is no doubt about that, that is correct, that is
8 true. But the fact that there were unfounded rumours
9 flying about doesn't detract from the overall picture of
10 the frustrations on the British side about the lack of
11 security cooperation, the difficulties that they
12 encountered over from extradition, over activities on the
13 southern side designed to interdict IRA operations. You
14 know, that is part of the political landscape, the security
15 landscape that prevailed all through the Troubles period.
16 You know, allegations about moles and all these other
17 things were really only parts of that picture. The overall
18 picture remains that there was difficulties, there was
19 wariness, suspicion, all those things.
20 281 Q. Yes, and my client doesn't dispute what you say there,
21 Mr. Ryder, because another note he gave my solicitor in
22 respect of your statement was as follows, and I should read
23 this out because it accords with a lot of what you said:
24 He says: "There was a mutual distrust on both sides with
25 security forces and he, Owen Corrigan, was not encouraged
26 by Headquarters to be mixing with the RUC. The RUC was
27 bitter towards the guards and vice versa. Owen Corrigan
28 confined his association with the RUC to a few individuals
29 he could trust in An Garda Siochana." So that doesn't
30 necessarily --
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 81
1 A. I can't contradict there that or confirm it. I mean, I
2 didn't have any more dealings with Mr. Corrigan other than
3 the one occasion on which I met him?
4 282 Q. Have you ever, in your extensive career, encountered a
5 member of An Garda Siochana with RUC officers of such a
6 high level in a social environment in Belfast or anywhere
7 else in Northern Ireland?
8 A. Yes, on occasion. There might have been the odd retirement
9 function or something of that sort.
10 283 Q. But this was an afternoon in 1974, '75, '76?
11 A. Yes.
12 284 Q. It was a difficult time. Was it usual for members of An
13 Garda Siochana to be up with members of the RUC in Belfast
14 at that time?
15 A. I know there were occasional meetings. I mean, you know,
16 sometimes when I would have been going in and out of places
17 I might have seen people arriving or going to meetings or I
18 might have heard afterwards that there was a meeting with
19 the Garda or something. Like, that but that was the only
20 occasion I can recall when I sort of bumped into a
21 Garda/RUC contact, if you like.
22 285 Q. Well, extensive evidence has been given about Mr. Corrigan
23 being quite close to Brian Fitzsimons and the RUC and he
24 will say, he has given evidence already but he will say
25 again in the future, that he actively worked with the RUC
26 in terms of giving intelligence on the IRA?
27 A. Well, you know, I can't contradict that, nor can I confirm
28 it because I don't have any knowledge.
29 286 Q. Your book "A Force Under Fire", that was published in 1989,
30 isn't that correct?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 82
1 A. That's correct.
2 287 Q. Did it deal in any respect, and I apologise I haven't read
3 it, did it deal in any respect with the murders of Chief
4 Superintendent Breen and Superintendent Buchanan?
5 A. No, I think that the book was written and finished before.
6 288 Q. OK. And you confirmed to Mr. Valentine that you were close
7 to Harry Breen; you knew Harry Breen, isn't that so?
8 A. I wouldn't say I was close to him. I knew him. I mean, I
9 had met him on a couple of occasions and I had met him on a
10 number of occasions at scenes of incidents.
11 289 Q. And he never suggested to you that he was fearful of Owen
12 Corrigan as a member of the --
13 A. No, no, he never specifically mentioned Owen Corrigan to me
14 at all.
15 290 Q. Yes. OK. Were you aware or did you cover the extradition
16 of Dominic McGlinchey to Northern Ireland?
17 A. Yes, I did.
18 291 Q. That was quite a significant event for a variety of
19 reasons?
20 A. It was, yes.
21 292 Q. Wasn't it?
22 A. Yes, it was a very significant event, yes.
23 293 Q. Do you know, Owen Corrigan has given evidence about this,
24 that he was asked to be the member of An Garda Siochana to
25 physically hand over McGlinchey?
26 A. Yes.
27 294 Q. Were you aware of that, sir?
28 A. Not until afterwards. I mean I was there when the handover
29 took place and it was an incredible scrambling match with
30 protesters and the Garda and RUC and whatever and I wasn't
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 83
1 very close to that, the actual handover, but I do think
2 that afterwards, this is just coming back to me now, I
3 think afterwards somebody said to me that Owen Corrigan had
4 been the man who was, the Garda officer who physically
5 handed over McGlinchey.
6 295 Q. Were you aware that after he did that there was a campaign
7 launched against him by provisionals and members of the
8 INLA in Dundalk?
9 A. No, I am not aware of that but it doesn't surprise me.
10 296 Q. You weren't aware that posters of Owen Corrigan were put up
11 around saying 'wanted for treason'?
12 A. No, I don't think so.
13 297 Q. And you weren't aware that himself and his wife were
14 assaulted one evening when they were out socially?
15 A. No, I wasn't aware of that.
16 298 Q. Just finally, sir, when were you asked to give evidence to
17 the Tribunal here, or did you proffer yourself as a witness
18 to the Tribunal?
19 A. No, no, Mr. McBurney contacted me and asked me if I had any
20 information that might be of use.
21 299 Q. OK. And Mr. McBurney is the solicitor?
22 A. The solicitor for the Breen family.
23 300 Q. Thanks very much, Mr. Ryder.
24
25 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. COFFEY AS FOLLOWS:
26
27 CHAIRMAN: We will finish this before 3:00?
28
29 MR. VALENTINE: The situation was, because of Brigadier
30 Liles' flight arrangements, he would need to start giving
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 84
1 evidence by 3:00 at the latest. I think we should be OK.
2
3 MR. COFFEY: I will be brief. I am mindful of the time
4 considerations.
5 301 Q. Mr. Ryder, I appear for retired Sergeant Colton and I want
6 to ask a number of brief questions. First of all, how long
7 are you retired?
8 A. Probably seven, six, seven years.
9 302 Q. Six, seven years?
10 A. Yes. I still do some work but I don't work full-time.
11 303 Q. During your working life as a journalist, did you maintain
12 an archive?
13 A. To some extent, but I disposed of a lot of it two years
14 ago.
15 304 Q. Did you ever write about the particular murders the subject
16 matter of this Tribunal?
17 A. I don't recall. I really don't recall. I mean, I don't
18 have an archive. I don't have a cuttings book.
19 305 Q. I think you are due to come back to give evidence on
20 another occasion, isn't that correct?
21 A. Yes, I think that is the plan, yes.
22 306 Q. Yes. And I --
23 A. I mean, I think that the murders took place after my book
24 had gone to press but before it was published or around
25 about the same time, and I don't think they are mentioned
26 in that book but I can check to see if they are mentioned
27 in any of the other books, but I certainly don't have any
28 cuttings or anything of that sort, and this period was
29 before electronic archives were available so it's more
30 difficult to check back.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 85
1 307 Q. Well, even before electronic, there was newspapers kept,
2 albums of cuttings and indeed, full editions of their
3 newspapers, isn't that correct?
4 A. Yes, but I don't have access to those. I mean, if I had
5 written for that it would have been in The Sunday Times or
6 the Daily Telegraph, the only archives of those would be in
7 London.
8 308 Q. I must suggest to you that most newspapers, if not every
9 newspaper and every media organisation by now has committed
10 its archives into electronic form?
11 A. That may be, yes.
12 309 Q. And I must suggest to you if you wanted to check out any
13 articles that you may have written, that that would be
14 readily available to you as a recognised and a very
15 established former employee -
16 A. I mean it would be if I had the reason to do it, yes.
17 310 Q. Well, from your own memory, can you recall writing
18 specifically either in The Times or the Telegraph or any
19 other media about these two murders?
20 A. Yes, I probably reported the Breen/Buchanan murders the day
21 after for the Daily Telegraph.
22 311 Q. That would be, am I correct, a factual account?
23 A. Yes, that is all it would have been, yes.
24 312 Q. Yes. Well, as regards a background piece or analytical
25 piece, can you recall ever writing?
26 A. No, I don't recall writing anything.
27 313 Q. And you would be one of the most distinguished and longest
28 serving journalist, someone like you, David McKittrick,
29 Eamon Malley, you have seen the Troubles from almost the
30 inception right up until almost the present day?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 86
1 A. Yes, that's correct.
2 314 Q. Others like Jeremy Paxman, Simon Jenkins, came and went?
3 A. Yes.
4 315 Q. And I must suggest to, Mr. Ryder, that you would have been
5 one of the people who would have been best informed on this
6 background of the murders and any other aspects relating to
7 the murders?
8 A. Yeah, well I have given evidence about the extent of my
9 knowledge of the situation.
10 316 Q. Yes, but you would have had a lot of information, you would
11 have been familiar with the broader picture of Northern
12 Ireland and also --
13 A. I thought that my evidence earlier covered that quite
14 comprehensively.
15 317 Q. Yes. And then focusing that background knowledge into the
16 specific incident of the two RUC men who were murdered, the
17 subject matter of this Tribunal, is it not very unusual
18 that you couldn't write a piece, or didn't write a piece
19 about anything relating to the Tribunal in terms of alleged
20 collusion?
21 A. It's not unusual at all. You know, first of all I would
22 found it very difficult to write pieces that were just
23 based on rumours; there would have had to be some reason
24 for it. I haven't been writing on a regular basis for six
25 or seven years. For example, I wouldn't have covered this
26 tribunal or any other tribunals. I write very occasional
27 pieces now and do some broadcasting.
28 318 Q. But these murders were very high profile incidents, weren't
29 they?
30 A. Yeah, well I mean it's quite possible I wrote -- I
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 87
1 certainly would have written about them at the time.
2 319 Q. I am suggesting to you, Mr. Ryder, that if there were
3 rumours about Garda collusion in or about '89, at the time
4 of the murders, or shortly thereafter or a year or three
5 years thereafter, that that would have been a matter of
6 extreme interest to somebody like you with your intense
7 knowledge and interest in northern affairs?
8 A. Well, it was of interest to me, and I have given evidence
9 to the Tribunal about the extent of my knowledge about the
10 way that I see it fitting against the backdrop, the
11 landscape of cross-border cooperation, all those other
12 things. You know, I really can't help you any further than
13 that.
14 320 Q. With respect, Mr. Ryder, you have given no specific
15 evidence here today about these two murders.
16 A. But I don't have any specific evidence about the two
17 murders. I mean, I know as much about them as a man who is
18 50 miles away. I was in Belfast and was told there had
19 been a shooting on the border. I remember getting into my
20 car and driving down and then discovering from a mobile
21 telephone at the scene that it was two senior RUC officers.
22 I didn't know the names of them for some hours after that.
23 321 Q. I am suggesting to you that if there was any substance or
24 currency about collusion in 1989, 1990, '92, 94, that that
25 would have been of interest to you and journalists like
26 you --
27 A. Well, it was of interest to me and I have given evidence
28 this morning about the way that I saw the picture as I saw
29 it, the way that I interpreted that picture. But, you
30 know, I didn't, to my recollection, write anything
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 88
1 specifically about Garda moles or collusion or things of
2 that sort because I don't have any firm, direct knowledge
3 of that. I may have reflected those rumours in a balanced
4 way in something I have written, but over the years, God
5 knows how many words I have written, I can't remember them
6 all.
7 322 Q. Specifically --
8 A. And I don't have an archive.
9 323 Q. Specifically about these two murders, Mr. Ryder, and again,
10 I must repeat, your inability to point to a particular
11 article or articles is indicative of a lack of any
12 substance to any allegations or rumours about collusion?
13 A. If you are so concerned about what I wrote, why don't you
14 research my articles and I will happily answer any
15 questions that you produce when I come back again the next
16 time.
17 324 Q. Mr. Ryder, you are the person who is presenting yourself
18 here as an expert?
19 A. I am not. I was asked to give evidence and help the
20 Tribunal, that is what I am trying to do to the best of my
21 honest ability.
22 325 Q. Is it possible that you can check out your --
23 A. No, it's not possible because I don't possess any archive
24 whatsoever.
25 326 Q. And you are not willing to do that?
26 A. I am not, because I don't think that anything that -- you
27 know, if you raise a specific concern with me about
28 something I have written, I am happy to deal with it. But
29 I do not have the resources or the time and I am not in the
30 best of health and I don't really have the capacity to go
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 89
1 and begin to research things for your convenience, if I may
2 put it that way politely.
3 327 Q. And in conclusion, then, you have nothing to say direct or
4 indirect regarding these murders; you know nothing about
5 them other than --
6 A. I have given --
7 328 Q. The murders --
8 A. -- assistance to the Tribunal to the fullest extent of my
9 knowledge and experience. You know, I can't go beyond
10 that. I am not going to speculate about things I don't
11 know anything about, and I am certainly not going to give
12 currency to rumours or allegations to which I know -- of
13 which I know nothing and which I have never investigated or
14 checked out.
15 329 Q. And clearly you didn't check anything out about rumours of
16 collusion?
17 A. I don't know what the point of this is.
18 330 Q. Can we take it that you didn't check out any, you
19 personally, you did not check out any suggestion of
20 collusion or Garda involvement in the murder of these two
21 men, you yourself?
22 A. I certainly was interested in that but --
23 331 Q. But you yourself --
24 A. I spoke to various people about it over the years. I was
25 party to conversations where it was discussed. I was aware
26 of all these rumours. But I heard nothing or discovered
27 nothing that was firm enough or hard enough or factual
28 enough for me to write anything about it. And that would
29 be the test: could I add to this story or add something
30 new to it beyond just giving currency to rumours? And, to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 90
1 the best of my recollection, I found out nothing that
2 justified writing anything more than that.
3 332 Q. And can I take it that these rumours were one of many other
4 rumours that --
5 A. Of course there were rumours about everything and everybody
6 and it was a very difficult job for a journalist like me to
7 distill truth from all these rumours and the claims and
8 counterclaims that went on.
9 333 Q. Did you ever hear a rumour, investigate the rumour,
10 establish that the substance of the rumour was correct and
11 then proceed to write an article?
12 A. I wrote many articles about many things, some of which
13 would have been based on something somebody said to me or
14 some suspicion voiced to me.
15 334 Q. And that you carried out investigations and research and
16 established the substance of the rumour or the conversation
17 as being accurate?
18 A. Yes, that was the essence of journalism.
19 335 Q. And you did that on many occasions?
20 A. Yes, on many occasions when the evidence justified it, but
21 there were many occasions when one attempted to tease
22 things out and found that either one couldn't get specific
23 information or just that it was untrue and then it was
24 forgotten about.
25 336 Q. And I am suggesting, again, Mr. Ryder, that the absence of
26 any articles that you can recall is indicative that there
27 was no substance to anything that you heard good, bad or
28 indifferent about these two murders?
29 A. I never claimed to have any information about the two
30 murders.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 91
1
2 CHAIRMAN: Any questions from any other party?
3
4 MS. O'SULLIVAN: No questions.
5
6 MR. VALENTINE: Just a few short questions, Chairman.
7
8 THE WITNESS WAS RE-EXAMINED BY MR. VALENTINE AS FOLLOWS:
9
10 MR. VALENTINE: We will comfortably finish, Mr. Ryder.
11 First, Mr. Ryder, just to follow up on Mr. O'Callaghan's
12 final question. He asked you when you first contacted the
13 Tribunal and you explained that Mr. McBurney contacted you,
14 but in fact we didn't actually -- you didn't address the
15 question which is when you first had contact with the
16 Tribunal counsel, just for the record, that question was
17 asked
18 A. Yes, sometime after I spoke to Mr. McBurney and yourself
19 and Justin Dillon asked to meet me in Belfast and we had a
20 conversation and as a result of that, my statement was
21 drawn up.
22 337 Q. And can you give the date of that meeting you had with
23 myself and Mr. Dillon?
24 A. It probably was about the beginning of November. I think
25 the statement is date about 16th November.
26 338 Q. The statement is dated the 16th?
27 A. Which was three days after that.
28 339 Q. And you can confirm you had no contact with the Tribunal
29 before the meeting in Belfast?
30 A. Absolutely not except for the conversation with
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 92
1 Mr. McBurney.
2 340 Q. And you can confirm Mr. McBurney contacted you for the
3 first time approximately how long ago?
4 A. Probably a couple of weeks before that.
5 341 Q. That is just for the record. Mr. O'Callaghan also asked
6 you whether you had heard it claimed that technical
7 information was available which suggested that a phone call
8 had been made from Dundalk Station. You said you had, and
9 I just want to clarify whether what you heard was that the
10 phone call had been made or whether it was that you heard
11 that there was technical information available to establish
12 that a phone call had been made?
13 A. No, I think the story was that there was a phone call had
14 been made or that the car had been followed or things --
15 you know, that there was an intercept or something. You
16 know, it was one of a number of spurious or varied theories
17 about how it had been targeted.
18 342 Q. But just to be absolutely clear, did you at any point hear
19 from any RUC officer or anyone else that there was
20 technical information available which would confirm that a
21 phone call had been made?
22 A. No, no.
23 343 Q. In relation to Mr. Harnden, I am sure Mr. Harnden is well
24 able to speak for himself, but what are your impressions of
25 him as a journalist?
26 A. Mr. Harnden?
27 344 Q. Yes.
28 A. I don't know him very well at all. He joined the Daily
29 Telegraph while I worked there but I was based in Belfast,
30 he was based in London, and after I left the Daily
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 93
1 Telegraph in 1993, he came over here to Ireland to replace
2 me and I just had one sort of brief conversation with him
3 when he arrived, and then after that I would just have met
4 him occasionally. I didn't mix with him socially or
5 anything of that sort. We might have been out on a story
6 together or something and might just pass the time of day
7 with him. I wasn't a close friend of his, and in fact I
8 didn't even know he was writing his book until it came out.
9 345 Q. And your impressions of the book? I think in fairness to
10 you, you said you didn't read it in full?
11 A. I don't think I read the book fully, I think I just skimmed
12 through it.
13 346 Q. And you didn't form any particular impression one way or
14 the other?
15 A. I don't think it would be fair to say I had any impression
16 of the book because that would have been some time ago when
17 the book came out and I don't recall.
18 347 Q. In response to a question again from Mr. O'Callaghan, you
19 indicated that on one occasion MI5 had tried to recruit you
20 as a source, effectively?
21 A. Yes.
22 348 Q. Did you ever hear anything about MI5, or the RUC for that
23 matter, ever trying to recruit sources within the south,
24 and in particular within An Garda Siochana?
25 A. There was a case in about 1973 of a Garda officer at
26 Headquarters in here who was -- I just can't recall his
27 name -- but he had been, he had been exposed as having been
28 assisting the British security services and there were
29 always rumours after that then that the British Security
30 Service had people in the Republic. Indeed I know of a
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 94
1 senior Scotland Yard officer who claimed to have sources in
2 the Republic and who travelled to the Republic incognito to
3 meet these sources.
4 349 Q. And would these be sources who were paid money or were --
5 A. I really don't know, but I would speculate they must have
6 been.
7 350 Q. And did you ever hear of the RUC Special Branch having
8 sources within An Garda Siochana?
9 A. Not specifically. You know, you would have heard all sorts
10 of rumours, you know, but that all sort of became James
11 Bond-ey stuff and I tend to discount it.
12 351 Q. Very good. I think when you were speaking about, I
13 suppose, the public relations exercise that the RUC
14 performed in their public pronouncements and you made the
15 statement that some of the evidence given to this Tribunal
16 made your eyebrows rise. What evidence was that?
17 A. I think it was more evidence not from the RUC; it was some
18 of the evidence from I think John O'Donoghue, the minister,
19 didn't strike me as being a very credible witness; I
20 thought that there was a distinct sound of hand-washing,
21 hand-wringing going on, from what I read of his evidence.
22 352 Q. Was there anything specific that made your eyebrows rise in
23 relation to his evidence?
24 A. I just don't recall, but you know, the way he said -- I
25 think the thing is that he was so dismissive of the fact
26 that there could even have been collusion or a mole or
27 anything, you know, which I don't think was appropriate for
28 the Justice -- ex Justice Minister. You know, I would have
29 thought that something of that sort should have been taken
30 seriously and tunnelled down to its very roots to prove it
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 95
1 or disprove it. He just seemed so offhand about it.
2 353 Q. Very good. Thank you very much for attending and thank you
3 for agreeing to return on another occasion.
4 A. There is just one other point, Mr. Chairman. This morning
5 I wrote down the name of a police officer for you. I
6 was -- that was rather sprung on me and, on reflection, I
7 am not a hundred percent sure that I could stand over the
8 name of the police officer.
9
10 CHAIRMAN: Yes.
11 A. I do recall a conversation, and I am 99 percent sure it was
12 in Monaghan, at which a Garda officer said to me that, you
13 know, we sometimes have to be circumspect within our own
14 organisation about how we handle things and do things.
15 But, on reflection, I couldn't stand over the name of that
16 officer as being the man --
17
18 CHAIRMAN: Very well. Thank you very much
19 A. -- that I had the conversation with. So, just to be fair
20 to him, on reflection, I don't think I could completely
21 stand over his name, but I do recall that I had a
22 conversation of that sort in Monaghan.
23
24 CHAIRMAN: You may recall as time moves.
25 A. Yes, well as times moves on and if I can help you further
26 on that, I will come back to it.
27
28 CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. I am very grateful to you
29 for your help to the Tribunal, it's much appreciate. Thank
30 you very much indeed.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 96
1
2 THE WITNESS THEN WITHDREW.
3
4 MR. VALENTINE: Chairman, just before Mr. Hayes takes up
5 the next witness, just two things that I want to state for
6 the record arising from Mr. Ryder evidence. The first is
7 that Mr. Jim McCann was on notice of Mr. Ryder's intended
8 evidence in relation to him.
9
10 And the second thing is, Mr. Fulton's name arose in
11 cross-examination -- under cross-examination by
12 Mr. O'Callaghan. Mr. Fulton wasn't on notice, obviously,
13 that Mr. Ryder would give any evidence in relation to him
14 because there was nothing in his statement and no such
15 evidence was led, but Mr. Fulton's solicitor is on notice
16 that at this stage of the public hearings we cannot foresee
17 whether or not his client's name may come up in
18 cross-examination and he is on notice that for that reason
19 we can't eliminate the possibility that his name will come
20 up in cross-examination at any of the public hearings.
21
22 MR. HAYES: Chairman, the next witness is a witness in
23 respect of whom you directed this evidence should be heard
24 in a private sitting.
25
26 THE TRIBUNAL THEN WENT INTO PRIVATE SESSION.
27
28 29
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 1
' 6 admit [1] - 46:10 ambushes [1] - 60:10 armies [1] - 9:7 admitted [1] - 13:9 America [2] - 25:21, armoured [1] - 7:19 '74 [1] - 17:17 6 [2] - 17:17, 17:27 adopted [2] - 62:30, 65:7 25:29 arms [1] - 25:22 '75 [1] - 81:10 advance [3] - 12:2, 25:19, American [3] - 20:26, Army [9] - 9:26, 10:11, '76 [1] - 81:10 8 65:22 21:1, 21:21 12:19, 33:26, 38:8, '78 [1] - 17:19 aerials [1] - 23:6 amount [4] - 5:6, 35:24, 42:17, 49:5, 54:28 8TH [1] - 1:1 '87 [1] - 29:17 aeroplanes [1] - 25:30 61:21, 66:26 army [43] - 7:16, 7:20, '88 [1] - 29:18 affairs [2] - 39:14, 87:7 analyse [1] - 16:1 7:22, 9:18, 10:2, 10:7, '89 [2] - 29:19, 87:3 9 affected [1] - 11:26 analysed [1] - 40:1 11:20, 20:29, 21:4, '92 [1] - 87:24 94 [1] - 87:24 afraid [2] - 52:6, 68:12 analysis [1] - 40:25 25:7, 26:7, 27:11, 30:1, [1] 'death - 31:3 99 [1] - 95:11 AFTER [1] - 54:1 analytical [1] - 85:24 30:5, 31:3, 38:2, 38:4, 'Detective [1] - 79:6 aftermath [5] - 15:29, Anderson [3] - 65:28, 38:13, 38:25, 38:27, 'he [1] - 77:14 A 26:18, 33:27, 34:20, 66:11, 67:8 39:8, 39:28, 40:10, 'methodology' [1] - 22:18 48:29 Andersonstown [2] - 40:13, 44:30, 45:2, 'wanted [1] - 83:11 ability [1] - 88:21 afternoon [12] - 18:22, 26:9, 27:12 45:5, 54:21, 55:14, able [14] - 15:18, 22:23, 18:26, 18:30, 30:2, Anglo [14] - 9:17, 9:19, 58:23, 59:19, 59:22, 1 25:18, 25:19, 31:24, 30:28, 41:21, 52:16, 9:25, 20:21, 32:11, 60:26, 60:30, 61:6, 31:28, 55:8, 58:5, 59:3, 52:22, 53:12, 63:18, 32:13, 33:8, 33:10, 61:12, 61:16, 62:25, 14 [3] - 22:28, 23:27, 61:14, 70:19, 72:9, 75:24, 81:10 33:13, 34:20, 34:23, 63:3 57:26 78:8, 92:24 afternoon's [1] - 52:14 34:26, 41:1, 41:8 army-to-army [1] - 11:20 15th [1] - 72:10 abreast [1] - 67:19 afterwards [5] - 52:25, Anglo-Irish [10] - 9:17, arose [6] - 3:11, 3:14, 16th [2] - 91:25, 91:26 absence [2] - 10:1, 90:25 81:18, 82:28, 83:2, 83:3 9:19, 9:25, 32:11, 48:10, 58:29, 61:30, 18 [1] - 2:19 absolutely [7] - 11:19, agencies [2] - 39:23, 42:8 32:13, 33:8, 33:10, 96:10 1960s [1] - 3:24 43:4, 43:17, 48:7, 72:3, agency [1] - 11:18 33:13, 34:23, 34:26 arrangement [1] - 21:23 1970s [4] - 16:27, 63:23, 91:30, 92:18 agent [1] - 30:27 annex [1] - 39:22 arrangements [5] - 30:16, 73:9, 73:24 abuse [2] - 44:22, 44:23 aggressive [2] - 6:15, 9:1 answer [2] - 41:17, 88:14 30:21, 34:6, 54:9, 83:30 1972 [1] - 2:19 accept [6] - 21:22, 46:23, agitated [1] - 35:6 antennae [1] - 23:6 arrived [3] - 17:3, 20:14, 1973 [1] - 93:25 50:20, 60:29, 61:4, ago [6] - 5:10, 79:12, anticipate [1] - 54:10 93:3 1974 [2] - 32:15, 81:10 79:20 79:13, 84:14, 92:3, anxious [1] - 47:29 arriving [1] - 81:17 1978 [5] - 16:29, 73:30, accepted [1] - 50:4 93:16 anyway [1] - 18:8 article [9] - 3:18, 26:30, 74:17, 74:18, 74:19 access [3] - 24:20, 40:7, agree [9] - 34:14, 43:28, apologise [1] - 82:2 50:3, 64:28, 65:3, 1980s [7] - 9:4, 9:6, 85:4 63:22, 68:2, 71:8, appear [5] - 8:8, 41:22, 65:30, 67:24, 88:11, 63:24, 64:19, 64:20, accident [1] - 44:29 71:30, 72:16, 75:21, 62:12, 63:18, 84:5 90:11 73:9, 73:24 accompany [1] - 7:16 76:13 appeared [2] - 42:21, articles [8] - 3:13, 5:11, 1985 [2] - 21:29 accompanying [1] - 7:19 agreed [2] - 2:10, 30:12 59:8 69:29, 85:13, 88:11, 1988 [1] - 2:22 accords [1] - 80:23 agreeing [1] - 95:3 appearing [1] - 52:9 88:14, 90:12, 90:26 1989 [4] - 3:6, 34:1, account [3] - 59:9, 67:23, Agreement [17] - 9:17, application [2] - 52:15, AS [8] - 1:2, 2:2, 41:19, 81:29, 87:24 85:22 9:19, 9:22, 9:25, 20:21, 53:11 54:1, 54:4, 63:15, 1990 [2] - 2:29, 87:24 accountability [1] - 44:21 32:11, 32:13, 32:16, applied [1] - 6:20 83:25, 91:8 [3] 1993 - 2:23, 69:1, 93:1 accounts [2] - 5:4, 68:4 33:8, 33:10, 33:13, appointed [1] - 37:3 aspects [5] - 2:5, 2:9, [1] 2:25, 38:20, 86:6 1994 - 2:27 accuracy [1] - 72:29 34:20, 34:23, 34:25, appointments [1] - 37:6 [2] assaulted [1] - 83:14 1996 - 2:27, 2:29 accurate [2] - 66:16, 41:1, 41:9, 70:1 appreciate [4] - 43:25, 1998 [1] - 65:23 90:17 agreement [1] - 9:26 62:20, 70:27, 95:29 assertion [1] - 70:6 1999 [1] - 64:16 accusation [1] - 63:7 agrees [1] - 73:22 approach [3] - 8:26, assigned [1] - 62:29 acorn [2] - 69:15, 69:16 ahead [1] - 9:27 19:15, 78:24 assist [2] - 20:24, 22:10 2 acquiesced [1] - 6:26 aimed [1] - 49:11 approached [3] - 35:5, assistance [5] - 11:9, Act [1] - 32:24 air [1] - 60:8 67:14, 78:20 61:7, 75:4, 75:6, 89:8 2000 [2] - 64:16, 72:11 acted [1] - 43:23 aircraft [1] - 25:25 appropriate [2] - 40:28, Assistant [1] - 34:5 2002 [2] - 64:29, 65:15 action [8] - 6:11, 6:15, aircrafts [1] - 25:26 94:27 assisted [1] - 4:30 2011 [1] - 1:1 6:19, 7:1, 9:1, 11:7, airport [1] - 51:3 approved [2] - 6:26, 37:6 assisting [2] - 21:6, 93:28 21st [2] - 34:1, 34:17 31:20, 33:23 alarm [1] - 19:8 April [1] - 29:17 associate [1] - 75:26 25th [2] - 64:29, 65:15 actively [1] - 81:25 albums [1] - 85:2 archive [4] - 84:12, 84:18, associated [3] - 51:13, activities [11] - 2:25, 54:17, 80:2 3 alert [2] - 45:28, 58:11 88:8, 88:23 4:11, 5:12, 5:23, 6:16, alive [2] - 17:8, 52:1 archives [3] - 84:29, 85:6, association [1] - 80:28 assure [1] - 1:5 3:00 [3] - 54:10, 83:27, 12:7, 13:17, 32:30, allegation [5] - 54:17, 85:10 84:1 64:15, 68:12, 80:12 70:30, 76:4, 77:5, 78:16 area [12] - 14:28, 15:5, atrocities [3] - 12:22, activity [12] - 4:27, 6:6, allegations [4] - 20:7, 23:3, 24:21, 46:28, 29:6, 43:9 4 7:24, 8:4, 15:5, 23:27, 80:16, 88:12, 89:12 55:4, 56:4, 58:22, 59:9, atrocity [2] - 10:21, 51:29 32:29, 39:4, 59:8, 59:9, alleged [1] - 86:19 59:10, 62:30 attack [4] - 49:1, 59:26, 40 [2] - 2:16, 63:20 59:14, 60:18 allegedly [1] - 72:25 areas [6] - 3:4, 11:6, 59:29, 60:26 actual [3] - 32:17, 59:30, alley' [1] - 31:4 12:17, 42:14, 58:26, attacked [1] - 24:15 5 83:1 allow [1] - 21:3 62:16 attacking [1] - 63:12 adapt [2] - 25:16, 25:19 allowed [6] - 6:14, 23:2, arguing [1] - 43:3 attacks [5] - 9:5, 11:1, 5 [2] - 17:17, 17:27 add [2] - 89:29 23:4, 24:20, 25:6, 36:15 arise [2] - 16:13, 16:17 29:16, 51:9, 51:12 50 [1] - 87:18 address [1] - 91:14 almost [4] - 10:19, 49:4, arising [2] - 10:1, 96:6 attempt [3] - 50:18, adept [1] - 23:10 85:29, 85:30 Armagh [3] - 15:2, 46:28, 51:17, 77:14 ADJOURNED [1] - 53:16 ambush [3] - 30:19, 60:4 attempted [3] - 11:20, admission [1] - 31:26 70:12, 76:30 armed [1] - 21:7 49:16, 90:21
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 2 attempting [1] - 48:30 basis [7] - 6:13, 16:17, bitter [1] - 80:27 42:6, 42:13, 43:21, C attend [1] - 52:10 19:28, 33:18, 46:18, black [2] - 45:25, 45:29 44:14, 74:4, 74:11, attending [1] - 95:2 76:23, 86:24 Blair [1] - 12:8 78:18, 94:7 cabinet [1] - 37:7 attention [4] - 3:19, 5:27, battle [3] - 23:14, 32:21, blast [1] - 16:30 brave [1] - 27:21 camera [1] - 58:7 13:24, 72:8 33:7 blind [1] - 56:12 break [1] - 51:20 cameras [2] - 24:9, 58:3 attic [1] - 26:8 BE [1] - 54:3 blocked [1] - 23:18 Breen [16] - 27:15, 27:16, campaign [5] - 6:8, 15:1, attitude [2] - 6:29, 21:17 beam [1] - 23:4 blown [2] - 17:19, 17:24 27:17, 27:19, 29:18, 25:15, 33:16, 83:6 August [1] - 65:23 became [3] - 25:17, boards [1] - 5:15 33:27, 35:14, 36:3, cannot [3] - 70:18, 76:13, authorise [1] - 41:5 32:14, 94:10 bob [2] - 19:6, 75:8 36:21, 36:22, 47:23, 96:16 authoritative [3] - 26:29, become [3] - 46:21, Bob [2] - 27:18, 47:23 69:18, 82:4, 82:7, 83:22 capabilities [2] - 22:15, 27:10, 27:13 62:30, 64:12 bomb [20] - 4:14, 5:18, Breen/Buchanan [2] - 22:24 authoritatively [1] - 70:25 becoming [1] - 78:23 5:22, 10:24, 11:21, 26:17, 85:20 capability [2] - 56:21, authorities [8] - 5:19, 6:5, beef [3] - 20:22, 20:23, 11:22, 23:15, 23:20, Brian [13] - 18:9, 18:15, 56:30 6:7, 7:9, 10:29, 22:14, 21:24 24:19, 25:20, 28:28, 20:12, 73:25, 74:19, capable [1] - 57:17 46:9, 53:5 BEEN [1] - 2:1 29:15, 48:27, 49:3, 75:24, 76:9, 77:11, capacity [20] - 22:9, authority [3] - 37:1, 37:4, beforehand [2] - 55:27, 49:4, 49:18, 59:27, 77:13, 78:5, 78:12, 22:25, 23:3, 23:7, 37:5 71:19 61:10, 61:12, 61:17 78:17, 81:23 23:11, 23:19, 24:18, Authority [1] - 2:27 began [4] - 19:8, 25:16, bomb-making [2] - 4:14, brief [5] - 41:4, 52:15, 24:26, 24:29, 25:1, available [8] - 53:5, 53:8, 26:19, 64:14 10:24 84:3, 84:6, 93:2 25:2, 25:11, 25:18, 70:22, 84:29, 85:14, begin [2] - 52:10, 89:1 bombed [1] - 24:16 briefings [1] - 9:13 26:1, 57:20, 57:23, 92:7, 92:11, 92:20 beginning [1] - 91:24 bombers [1] - 11:10 Brigade [2] - 58:20, 58:21 57:24, 57:30, 58:1, await [1] - 65:18 begun [1] - 3:21 bombing [3] - 49:7, 65:1, brigade [1] - 23:5 88:30 aware [39] - 3:25, 3:30, behalf [1] - 65:11 65:23 Brigadier [5] - 52:15, car [10] - 7:19, 7:21, 4:18, 12:2, 32:14, behaviour [1] - 75:25 bombs [12] - 5:17, 5:23, 52:30, 53:7, 54:8, 83:29 28:29, 30:10, 58:6, 36:10, 36:11, 40:17, behind [1] - 34:12 10:22, 23:10, 23:12, bring [3] - 31:28, 32:19, 58:7, 58:9, 70:14, 87:20, 92:14 42:2, 45:19, 46:15, Belfast [26] - 2:21, 4:20, 23:16, 23:18, 24:12, 72:8 46:19, 63:28, 64:2, 6:3, 6:9, 6:10, 6:29, 25:13, 55:8, 61:15 Brink's [1] - 29:8 card [6] - 19:5, 78:7, 78:8, 64:8, 64:12, 64:25, 16:22, 22:29, 22:30, Bond [2] - 57:29, 94:11 Brink's-MAT [1] - 29:8 79:1, 79:4, 79:8 66:3, 66:20, 67:13, 26:5, 26:10, 27:12, Bond-ey [2] - 57:29, bristled [1] - 23:6 cards [1] - 79:2 67:19, 69:19, 69:21, 30:4, 30:9, 30:13, 94:11 Britain [1] - 10:26 career [2] - 2:18, 81:4 70:4, 70:9, 70:11, 39:20, 39:21, 58:24, book [28] - 3:6, 3:9, British [32] - 5:19, 7:9, careful [3] - 38:11, 77:14, 70:20, 70:21, 73:24, 62:3, 74:4, 81:6, 81:13, 24:19, 26:11, 27:14, 8:28, 9:7, 9:26, 10:11, 77:15 76:28, 77:1, 82:15, 87:18, 91:19, 91:29, 64:5, 66:28, 69:12, 10:19, 11:4, 11:17, carefully [2] - 43:23, 60:8 82:27, 83:6, 83:9, 92:29 69:17, 69:22, 69:24, 12:19, 20:21, 21:8, carried [8] - 7:18, 28:26, 83:10, 83:13, 83:15, Belfast-Dublin [2] - 69:26, 70:5, 70:10, 21:16, 21:21, 21:27, 29:6, 31:27, 33:4, 35:2, 89:25 22:29, 22:30 70:11, 71:20, 71:22, 22:14, 23:15, 26:5, 41:6, 90:15 awful [2] - 57:7, 61:29 belief [1] - 67:2 72:17, 81:29, 82:5, 33:14, 33:25, 33:26, cars [4] - 7:19, 57:27, axe [1] - 45:22 beliefs [1] - 46:21 84:18, 84:23, 84:26, 38:8, 39:23, 42:17, 58:4, 58:5 axis [4] - 15:4, 31:10, believes [1] - 68:27 93:8, 93:9, 93:11, 49:5, 54:28, 61:12, case [10] - 11:23, 12:5, 35:9, 36:10 bells [1] - 19:8 93:16, 93:17 65:21, 80:10, 93:28, 34:30, 37:18, 44:17, beside [1] - 7:28 booked [4] - 30:27, 93:29 49:20, 49:21, 54:11, 80:4, 93:25 B best [7] - 16:21, 20:11, 50:13, 50:16, 50:17 broadcasting [1] - 86:27 48:8, 86:5, 88:20, books [5] - 2:24, 63:29, broader [1] - 86:11 cases [3] - 6:12, 10:24, backdrop [2] - 33:15, 88:30, 90:1 64:1, 64:2, 84:27 brought [2] - 32:16, 32:24 43:7 87:10 betrayal [1] - 50:21 border [58] - 7:4, 7:7, Buchanan [9] - 27:15, cast [1] - 72:29 backed [2] - 6:11, 8:30 betrayed [5] - 29:25, 7:10, 7:11, 7:18, 7:20, 27:18, 29:18, 33:27, Castle [2] - 39:22 background [5] - 39:15, 30:17, 30:19, 50:11, 8:9, 9:6, 9:19, 9:27, 35:14, 36:3, 47:23, Castlebellingham [1] - 41:8, 85:24, 86:6, 86:15 50:25 9:28, 10:13, 10:20, 69:18, 82:4 48:28 backgrounds [1] - 40:25 better [2] - 33:16, 74:13 10:30, 11:2, 11:4, 11:7, buffer [3] - 37:1, 37:20, Castleblayney [1] - 6:17 backwards [2] - 20:20, between [24] - 8:9, 8:14, 11:8, 11:24, 12:6, 37:22 casts [1] - 72:16 28:22 11:16, 11:17, 11:22, 12:18, 16:4, 20:22, buffers [1] - 37:16 caught [1] - 28:30 bad [2] - 16:2, 90:27 11:24, 11:27, 12:25, 20:23, 21:14, 21:30, building [3] - 21:30, caused [3] - 22:18, 47:9, bail [2] - 3:25, 3:30 12:26, 15:3, 23:15, 22:6, 26:16, 29:7, 33:1, 33:14, 45:8 61:26 balance [1] - 79:19 32:17, 33:18, 33:21, 33:15, 33:19, 33:21, built [2] - 9:27, 24:13 cautious [1] - 12:1 balanced [2] - 45:18, 88:3 39:27, 40:12, 42:7, 35:16, 47:1, 47:20, bump [1] - 58:6 CB [3] - 25:2, 25:9, 57:1 Bandit [4] - 69:12, 69:16, 42:15, 55:17, 64:30, 48:28, 54:21, 54:22, bumped [2] - 28:4, 81:20 ceasefire [2] - 63:28, 69:17, 70:5 73:10, 73:15, 73:23, 54:27, 55:3, 55:4, buried [1] - 52:7 64:17 bar [3] - 18:20, 52:7, 77:30 55:15, 55:17, 57:25, bury [1] - 25:20 centrally [1] - 63:30 77:12 beyond [4] - 50:11, 59:19, 59:30, 60:12, business [2] - 3:14, 75:30 centred [2] - 23:28 base [4] - 23:27, 62:7, 76:17, 89:9, 89:30 60:22, 60:24, 60:27, businessman [1] - 3:15 certain [8] - 3:12, 14:24, 62:8, 66:10 bid [1] - 32:24 61:21, 61:27, 62:17, but.. [1] - 73:5 14:25, 15:12, 15:13, based [10] - 2:20, 22:21, big [3] - 4:6, 24:14, 26:10 87:11, 87:19 buy [2] - 25:5, 57:9 23:20, 65:7 23:14, 39:20, 39:21, [1] Billy [1] - 42:12 border-building - buying [1] - 25:24 certainly [26] - 10:6, 67:24, 86:23, 90:13, 21:30 binoculars [2] - 23:1, BY [6] - 2:1, 41:19, 54:3, 17:17, 36:10, 36:11, 92:29, 92:30 56:19 box [2] - 1:10, 72:27 63:15, 83:25, 91:8 36:12, 42:17, 43:13, bases [5] - 9:28, 22:3, bit [4] - 19:24, 30:14, boxer [1] - 3:23 bypass [1] - 12:5 46:5, 51:2, 51:11, 22:27, 23:26, 25:27 47:10, 57:29 boy [1] - 48:19 55:29, 56:23, 56:29, basing [1] - 75:23 bits [1] - 69:14 Branch [10] - 18:11, 30:9, 57:14, 57:30, 58:1,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 3
58:13, 59:8, 68:21, 92:9 communications [1] - conflict [3] - 46:12, 26:2, 28:23, 36:21, 71:20, 72:6, 73:17, clarity [1] - 36:20 58:1 61:24, 62:10 89:25 84:27, 87:1, 89:11, clash [1] - 32:14 communities [2] - 11:6, conflicting [2] - 51:1, convicted [1] - 5:23 89:22 clause [1] - 47:7 62:18 71:3 convinced [1] - 65:21 certainty [1] - 70:19 clear [13] - 10:3, 13:13, community [2] - 34:25, conscious [2] - 36:13, convincing [3] - 31:23, CHAIRMAN [15] - 1:4, 17:21, 19:17, 23:2, 34:28 68:1 50:22, 50:25 2:13, 13:26, 14:3, 14:6, 25:1, 28:12, 31:18, Community [1] - 2:28 consequence [2] - 18:26, convoy [1] - 7:18 51:23, 52:5, 52:30, 52:23, 56:4, 56:5, companion [2] - 17:3, 20:18 cooperate [1] - 8:12 54:14, 83:27, 91:2, 78:22, 92:18 17:29 considerable [1] - 5:6 cooperation [20] - 6:4, 95:10, 95:18, 95:24, clearly [4] - 37:18, 48:24, company [1] - 28:7 considerably [1] - 66:26 6:30, 8:14, 12:27, 16:5, 95:28 75:28, 89:15 compatible [1] - 7:23 consideration [1] - 59:18 20:22, 32:22, 32:29, Chairman [21] - 1:7, 2:4, client [3] - 73:22, 73:25, compellable [2] - 47:12 considerations [1] - 84:4 33:6, 33:16, 34:10, 2:18, 5:30, 7:8, 13:23, 80:20 compelling [1] - 68:30 considered [5] - 3:7, 35:16, 46:26, 46:30, 14:1, 22:10, 25:10, client's [1] - 96:17 completely [2] - 80:6, 19:11, 21:12, 33:26, 61:21, 61:23, 76:22, 47:29, 51:25, 52:13, cloaked [2] - 41:11, 41:13 95:20 68:24 80:11, 87:11 54:6, 72:28, 76:8, close [18] - 4:6, 8:8, complex [1] - 24:10 consistent [1] - 51:12 coordinating [1] - 39:1 76:29, 91:6, 95:4, 96:4, 51:16, 52:8, 56:13, components [1] - 5:19 Constable [6] - 17:13, Coordinator [3] - 39:17, 96:22 61:11, 67:11, 73:25, composition [1] - 48:18 17:14, 37:3, 38:22, 40:5, 40:15 chance [1] - 68:8 76:9, 76:10, 77:15, compounded [1] - 8:2 40:7, 40:9 copies [1] - 44:10 change [3] - 7:1, 9:1, 78:13, 81:23, 82:6, comprehensive [3] - Constables [1] - 31:16 Cork [1] - 27:1 32:27 82:8, 83:1, 93:7 22:6, 41:9, 49:24 Constabulary [1] - 76:22 corps [1] - 23:30 changed [1] - 37:19 closed [1] - 23:3 comprehensively [1] - constant [10] - 10:28, correct [25] - 3:17, 24:27, changing [1] - 32:18 closely [1] - 24:27 86:14 10:30, 12:19, 12:24, 27:16, 38:2, 42:16, Charles [1] - 8:19 Clough [5] - 22:29, 55:1, compromise [1] - 31:5 12:25, 23:14, 31:19, 45:15, 45:20, 61:18, cheap [1] - 57:6 55:18, 59:25 compromised [3] - 12:7, 32:21, 55:6 62:2, 63:20, 63:21, check [12] - 45:30, 55:16, clubs [2] - 4:22, 5:5 26:22, 46:6 consternation [1] - 46:19 69:3, 73:11, 74:21, 59:15, 65:26, 65:28, Co [1] - 39:5 computer [1] - 58:9 constructive [1] - 8:26 74:25, 74:29, 78:28, 84:26, 84:30, 85:12, Co-ordinator [1] - 39:5 computerised [1] - 58:15 contact [18] - 4:10, 11:20, 80:7, 81:30, 82:1, 88:22, 89:15, 89:18, coal [2] - 15:22, 15:24 concentrating [1] - 23:9 11:22, 11:23, 12:15, 84:20, 85:3, 85:22, 89:19 cocktail [1] - 6:24 concern [13] - 6:22, 11:8, 12:18, 33:24, 61:1, 86:1, 90:10 checked [3] - 59:11, COFFEY [2] - 83:25, 84:3 14:11, 14:27, 22:19, 61:2, 61:16, 62:14, correspondence [1] - 68:11, 89:14 coincidence [1] - 31:6 29:20, 31:9, 32:2, 62:24, 62:26, 65:27, 72:10 checkpoint [2] - 9:18, colleague [1] - 7:27 33:30, 35:10, 36:3, 74:28, 81:21, 91:15, Corrigan [41] - 16:18, 55:1 colleagues [2] - 13:6, 36:8, 88:27 91:28 16:20, 18:12, 18:14, checkpoints [1] - 55:2 46:30 concerned [6] - 14:23, contacted [4] - 83:19, 18:16, 19:1, 19:14, checks [2] - 67:6, 67:7 collecting [1] - 59:1 27:22, 35:7, 36:12, 91:12, 91:13, 92:2 20:2, 20:3, 20:4, 36:22, cheque [1] - 66:28 collusion [14] - 70:7, 66:5, 88:13 contacts [5] - 8:9, 62:20, 63:19, 73:22, 73:25, cheque-book [1] - 66:28 70:29, 71:1, 71:2, 72:1, concerning [1] - 48:10 62:22, 62:23, 64:22 74:17, 74:27, 75:11, 75:12, 75:22, 75:30, cheques [1] - 50:18 72:7, 86:20, 87:3, concerns [6] - 12:24, contained [2] - 40:24, Chief [12] - 17:11, 17:13, 87:24, 88:1, 88:12, 15:6, 15:28, 29:29, 40:28 76:2, 76:9, 76:21, 17:14, 17:28, 31:15, 89:16, 89:20, 94:26 32:4, 35:17 content [1] - 28:11 76:29, 77:4, 77:9, 77:26, 78:3, 78:6, 37:2, 38:22, 40:7, 40:9, Colton [1] - 84:5 concessions [2] - 8:21, context [12] - 3:14, 5:30, 78:11, 78:25, 78:27, 65:27, 69:18, 82:3 column [1] - 6:23 8:22 16:1, 16:4, 19:23, 80:25, 80:27, 81:2, children [1] - 51:30 comfortable [1] - 14:21 concluded [1] - 41:7 19:24, 20:4, 21:15, 81:22, 82:12, 82:13, Chris [3] - 1:9, 77:11, comfortably [1] - 91:10 conclusion [3] - 44:1, 21:26, 26:17, 28:2, 32:5 82:23, 83:3, 83:10 77:12 coming [5] - 29:11, 33:4, 72:23, 89:3 continue [1] - 32:12 Corrigan' [1] - 79:6 CHRIS [2] - 2:1, 54:3 42:19, 68:2, 83:2 conclusions [4] - 42:24, continued [1] - 20:15 Corrigan's [2] - 77:17, circle [1] - 35:21 command [4] - 12:23, 42:27, 43:6, 43:27 CONTINUED [2] - 54:1, 79:21 circuit [1] - 23:3 35:20, 55:25, 55:28 conclusively [1] - 50:13 54:3 Cory [1] - 70:1 circuitry [1] - 5:15 commanding [1] - 26:7 concurrent [1] - 2:7 continues [1] - 65:30 Council [3] - 2:28, 32:15, circumspect [6] - 13:16, commence [1] - 54:9 condemnation [1] - 43:27 contradict [3] - 72:15, 32:20 14:9, 14:12, 14:15, commenced [1] - 34:7 condemnations [1] - 81:1, 81:27 councillors [1] - 62:15 35:24, 95:13 comment [2] - 68:20, 43:15 control [5] - 23:12, 25:26, counsel [2] - 52:9, 91:16 circumspection [1] - 73:7 condemning [1] - 8:28 25:30, 37:15 counter [5] - 23:9, 23:24, 60:17 Commissioner [4] - 12:8, condition [1] - 53:13 controlled [3] - 36:27, 23:25, 24:22, 24:26 circumstance [2] - 42:30, 34:2, 34:5, 34:8 conduct [1] - 20:7 36:30, 55:29 counter-measures [5] - 69:27 commitments [1] - 37:21 conducted [1] - 55:2 convenience [1] - 89:1 23:9, 23:24, 23:25, circumstances [5] - 2:8, committal [1] - 19:7 conference [4] - 28:8, conversation [17] - 24:22, 24:26 29:1, 34:6, 36:19, 49:15 committed [5] - 6:7, 44:29, 45:2, 45:4 13:11, 14:9, 18:27, counterclaims [1] - 90:8 circumstantial [1] - 71:1 27:20, 32:25, 44:15, conferences [1] - 34:3 20:6, 20:18, 28:11, counterparts [4] - 37:27, civil [1] - 61:7 85:9 confidences [1] - 19:27 28:14, 38:10, 77:15, 38:8, 38:9, 61:13 claimed [8] - 31:25, committees [6] - 38:24, confidential [1] - 14:22 78:29, 90:16, 91:20, Country [4] - 69:12, 49:10, 49:23, 70:24, 38:25, 38:26, 38:27, confined [1] - 80:28 91:30, 93:2, 95:11, 75:14, 90:29, 92:6, 94:1 95:19, 95:22 69:16, 69:17, 70:5 38:29, 40:14 confirm [5] - 81:1, 81:27, country [3] - 38:7, 38:17, claims [3] - 64:15, 68:11, common [10] - 6:2, 13:10, 91:28, 92:2, 92:20 conversation-point [1] - 90:7 13:11 57:7 25:3, 26:20, 44:13, confirmed [5] - 13:15, County [1] - 33:5 clamp [1] - 46:9 46:21, 56:23, 57:2, 21:10, 71:23, 72:11, conversations [8] - 13:2, couple [5] - 30:13, 41:22, clarify [3] - 8:15, 51:25, 66:6, 69:22 82:6 15:23, 21:15, 22:22,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 4
60:27, 82:9, 92:4 84:28, 85:2 denies [1] - 79:17 Director [3] - 39:5, 39:17, down [22] - 8:10, 8:24, courageous [1] - 68:16 cynical [1] - 47:2 deny [1] - 49:23 40:15 13:24, 13:27, 19:29, course [15] - 9:30, 11:13, deployment [1] - 32:29 director [1] - 40:5 28:5, 30:11, 32:16, 18:26, 18:30, 28:21, D depots [1] - 4:22 disagree [2] - 76:13, 32:19, 33:1, 34:21, 37:17, 44:9, 45:12, Deputy [1] - 12:8 76:27 37:4, 37:21, 43:12, Daily [7] - 2:22, 69:1, 45:23, 52:17, 61:4, Derry [1] - 62:3 disclose [2] - 35:25, 46:9, 54:30, 55:3, 58:6, 69:4, 85:6, 85:21, 75:11, 77:19, 78:10, describe [2] - 10:18, 35:26 59:27, 87:20, 94:30, 92:28, 92:30 90:5 47:19 discount [1] - 94:11 95:5 danger [1] - 60:9 court [1] - 25:29 described [4] - 18:12, discovered [6] - 4:2, Downshire [1] - 30:5 dangerous [3] - 60:1, courts [2] - 3:26, 6:14 37:27, 65:9, 79:6 4:16, 26:9, 49:8, 49:9, dramatic [1] - 22:27 63:26, 63:27 cover [2] - 7:28, 82:15 description [1] - 10:1 89:26 draw [4] - 42:24, 42:27, date [4] - 3:8, 41:29, coverage [1] - 3:10 designed [1] - 80:13 discovering [1] - 87:20 43:26, 72:23 91:22, 91:25 covered [2] - 86:13, 86:25 desire [1] - 21:13 discredited [1] - 65:12 drawn [4] - 3:19, 5:27, dated [2] - 72:10, 91:26 covering [4] - 2:16, desk [1] - 39:9 discuss [1] - 35:17 91:21 Datsun [1] - 48:24 25:22, 63:19, 63:23 desperate [1] - 11:5 discussed [9] - 12:1, drink [1] - 75:24 David [2] - 51:29, 85:28 covert [2] - 22:1, 60:17 detail [8] - 5:9, 5:10, 12:30, 20:18, 21:14, drinking [1] - 4:22 days [9] - 25:19, 25:21, crash [2] - 74:5, 74:6 15:28, 18:21, 18:28, 31:18, 39:2, 40:12, drinks [1] - 20:16 29:13, 37:17, 56:5, create [2] - 22:2, 58:11 28:18, 31:17, 76:20 41:2, 89:25 driven [1] - 48:23 56:27, 60:18, 75:27, created [2] - 23:17, 51:27 detailed [3] - 41:3, 41:9, discussing [2] - 22:15, driving [4] - 30:3, 30:9, 91:27 creating [1] - 37:21 67:27 35:14 48:12, 87:20 DC [1] - 40:4 credibility [4] - 49:22, details [5] - 30:15, 43:8, discussions [2] - 16:14, Dromad [1] - 54:25 DCI [2] - 40:10, 41:10 68:9, 71:5, 71:6 48:20, 57:23, 75:16 35:15 Dromiskin [1] - 4:4 DCI's [1] - 40:7 credible [4] - 50:30, detect [2] - 23:16, 23:20 disguise [1] - 50:19 Dublin [12] - 2:21, 6:3, DCOI [2] - 40:3, 40:5 79:20, 94:19 detected [1] - 56:17 dismissed [1] - 9:9 6:9, 6:24, 9:10, 12:6, dead [2] - 17:9, 43:24 crest [2] - 79:1, 79:5 detectible [1] - 55:29 dismissive [1] - 94:25 22:29, 22:30, 30:18, deadly [1] - 32:17 crime [3] - 27:26, 27:27, Detective [2] - 71:23, disperse [1] - 42:22 31:19, 32:1, 51:3 deal [10] - 9:30, 15:8, 29:3 72:25 disposal [6] - 11:22, due [7] - 9:30, 52:16, 16:10, 40:20, 54:7, crime-scene [2] - 27:26, detectives [2] - 35:22, 23:15, 24:19, 61:10, 52:23, 75:11, 77:18, 75:1, 79:23, 82:2, 82:3, 27:27 44:16 61:12, 61:17 78:10, 84:19 88:28 crimes [6] - 27:25, 31:22, determination [1] - 35:29 disposals [1] - 11:21 dug [3] - 55:24, 55:28, dealing [6] - 14:21, 15:9, 31:23, 31:27, 44:15, deterrent [1] - 9:8 disposed [1] - 84:13 56:7 15:26, 34:18, 41:25, 44:16 detonated [4] - 23:13, disposition [1] - 78:17 Dundalk [33] - 3:16, 3:20, 44:8 criminal [1] - 32:22 23:19, 28:28, 49:18 disprove [1] - 95:1 3:28, 4:4, 4:8, 4:9, 5:14, dealings [4] - 14:24, Criminal [1] - 32:23 detonation [1] - 5:17 dispute [7] - 64:30, 6:17, 7:16, 11:12, 66:23, 67:18, 81:2 critical [2] - 42:5, 73:17 detract [1] - 80:9 74:30, 76:12, 76:24, 14:28, 15:3, 15:4, 15:8, dealt [3] - 5:8, 58:25, 15:10, 19:4, 26:21, criticise [1] - 43:19 develop [2] - 11:11, 21:9 76:26, 77:30, 80:20 58:27 31:10, 33:30, 34:6, criticised [1] - 42:10 developing [3] - 23:11, disrupt [1] - 7:3 death [1] - 43:20 criticism [1] - 37:29 25:12, 56:24 disrupting [1] - 6:6 35:9, 36:4, 36:10, 46:3, deaths [4] - 7:4, 29:2, 49:26, 50:26, 51:6, cross [14] - 10:13, 10:30, device [3] - 16:30, 55:24, dissatisfaction [1] - 47:28 11:7, 16:4, 20:22, 55:28 47:20 70:8, 70:22, 71:18, deceased [2] - 17:11, 72:13, 83:8, 92:8 35:16, 54:7, 55:15, devious [1] - 45:19 disseminated [1] - 27:4 18:10 Dundalk-Newry [1] - 87:11, 96:11, 96:18, died [1] - 52:7 distance [3] - 16:15, DECEMBER [1] - 1:1 31:10 96:20 different [2] - 26:27, 22:14, 56:20 decide [6] - 50:29, 71:5, DURACK [6] - 41:19, CROSS [4] - 41:19, 54:3, 40:14 distill [2] - 45:16, 90:7 72:18, 72:19, 73:3, 41:21, 51:20, 52:3, 63:15, 83:25 difficult [16] - 14:28, 16:2, distinct [1] - 94:20 79:19 54:3, 54:16 cross-border [8] - 10:13, 34:19, 34:26, 49:14, distinguished [1] - 85:27 decided [4] - 21:22, Durack [2] - 41:21, 54:6 10:30, 11:7, 16:4, 49:15, 50:30, 59:24, distract [1] - 48:5 21:27, 22:2, 37:2 during [9] - 18:26, 18:30, 20:22, 35:16, 87:11 60:5, 68:15, 69:9, distributed [2] - 44:10, decisions [1] - 43:20 cross-examination [5] - 76:23, 81:12, 84:30, 44:11 26:9, 28:21, 73:24, decisive [1] - 9:1 76:23, 79:29, 80:4, 54:7, 96:11, 96:18, 86:22, 90:6 distrust [2] - 73:23, 80:24 deduce [1] - 22:23 84:11 96:20 difficulties [6] - 15:25, ditch [1] - 7:29 defamed [1] - 68:27 duty [1] - 47:26 CROSS-EXAMINED [4] - 35:8, 43:18, 61:5, divided [1] - 42:13 Defence [1] - 39:12 41:19, 54:3, 63:15, 80:11, 80:18 documents [2] - 40:23, defence [1] - 6:13 83:25 difficulty [3] - 34:19, 41:2 E definite [1] - 27:8 Crossmaglen [1] - 60:26 46:11, 61:9 [1] dodgy - 19:24 Eamon [1] - 85:29 definitive [3] - 3:8, 42:24, Crown [1] - 49:1 Dillon [2] - 91:19, 91:23 [1] dog - 55:30 early [13] - 3:24, 8:2, 9:4, Cruchley [1] - 74:24 42:27 dim [1] - 8:20 Dominic [1] - 82:16 9:6, 16:27, 17:26, Crutchley [4] - 17:11, definitively [2] - 29:24, dimension [1] - 62:5 Donaldson [1] - 69:29 25:13, 28:20, 29:14, 17:29, 18:15, 18:17 31:8 diplomacy [1] - 61:22 done [10] - 7:10, 7:12, 32:21, 42:24, 43:5, currency [5] - 66:6, degree [3] - 6:4, 35:4, diplomat [2] - 5:26, 21:2 19:16, 21:18, 28:24, 65:20 69:23, 87:24, 89:12, 72:7 diplomatic [1] - 20:26 31:13, 34:4, 44:2, ease [1] - 61:26 89:30 delay [1] - 52:6 diplomats [1] - 62:23 55:22, 56:16 easily [2] - 57:4, 57:9 current [1] - 40:26 delicacy [1] - 13:18 direct [6] - 26:7, 37:15, doors [2] - 24:14, 34:12 easy [2] - 43:19, 60:25 curtailing [1] - 6:6 delicate [1] - 53:1 61:16, 68:6, 88:2, 89:3 double [1] - 24:14 echelons [1] - 74:11 Cusack [1] - 27:1 deliver [1] - 33:12 directed [1] - 96:23 doubt [11] - 42:20, 44:17, editions [1] - 85:2 customs [1] - 29:14 delivers [1] - 65:18 direction [1] - 46:29 46:1, 55:10, 60:6, 64:3, editor [1] - 19:11 denial [1] - 79:21 cut [1] - 32:30 65:3, 68:17, 72:16, directly [2] - 12:13, 36:30 effect [5] - 12:9, 37:14, denied [1] - 26:11 cuttings [3] - 84:18, 72:29, 80:7
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 5
75:9, 75:10, 75:22 45:25, 56:1 40:6, 40:30, 49:17, 18:6, 22:26, 29:5, 31:3, fifth [1] - 18:23 effective [6] - 10:13, 11:7, equipment [6] - 4:14, 86:25 32:17, 34:7, 34:21, fighting [1] - 44:4 12:21, 12:26, 16:6, 5:14, 21:3, 22:16, except [3] - 11:21, 73:28, 35:2, 36:2, 36:7, 37:30, figure [3] - 18:11, 74:8, 20:27 24:11, 25:30 91:30 42:7, 42:12, 42:13, 74:11 effectively [7] - 21:27, era [1] - 57:3 exceptionally [1] - 70:28 43:15, 43:18, 43:30, figures [2] - 5:2, 5:4 34:3, 37:20, 42:22, Eric [2] - 65:28, 67:8 exchange [3] - 11:14, 44:4, 46:15, 46:21, file [1] - 28:16 55:5, 65:12, 93:20 escape [3] - 60:23, 60:25, 11:15, 61:14 47:15, 48:23, 48:24, files [1] - 44:11 efforts [3] - 10:28, 20:22, 61:27 exchanged [1] - 73:20 48:27, 48:30, 49:9, filled [1] - 30:14 32:8 escorted [1] - 51:6 exchanges [2] - 12:20, 50:4, 50:7, 50:8, 50:13, filtered [2] - 8:24, 58:20 eight [1] - 25:20 essence [1] - 90:18 14:22 50:16, 50:23, 51:3, final [4] - 38:18, 65:19, eighties [5] - 6:3, 8:17, essentially [1] - 10:9 exchanging [1] - 19:2 54:24, 55:14, 56:6, 65:26, 91:12 33:8, 56:26, 57:2 establish [2] - 90:10, exclusively [3] - 11:24, 58:14, 59:29, 60:12, finally [1] - 83:16 either [8] - 18:16, 21:22, 92:11 62:13, 62:14 61:29, 76:29, 79:7, fine [3] - 6:10, 8:28, 8:29 79:14, 80:8, 91:14, 30:28, 45:26, 46:14, established [2] - 85:15, exercise [3] - 8:5, 8:6, Fine [3] - 8:25, 37:8, 56:17, 85:18, 90:22 90:16 94:13 93:7, 94:25 37:26 factories [1] - 10:24 elaborate [1] - 48:6 establishment [3] - 6:24, existed [2] - 11:27, 40:14 finish [2] - 83:27, 91:10 factors [1] - 71:6 elected [1] - 15:14 38:23, 40:8 exists [1] - 37:4 finished [2] - 54:11, 82:5 factory [12] - 3:28, 4:5, electrical [1] - 24:1 establishments [1] - expecting [1] - 55:15 Fire [3] - 3:7, 26:11, 81:29 4:9, 4:11, 4:12, 5:14, electronic [14] - 5:15, 32:18 experience [8] - 2:16, firm [2] - 88:2, 89:27 5:21, 5:24, 5:28, 10:27, 5:17, 23:9, 23:13, etc [5] - 45:11, 46:17, 7:14, 8:13, 15:24, 36:5, first [23] - 1:8, 14:4, 33:2, 33:5 23:24, 23:25, 24:11, 46:26, 48:4, 63:3 37:7, 47:3, 89:9 18:18, 32:14, 36:25, facts [4] - 49:16, 71:3, 24:22, 24:25, 39:29, evening [1] - 83:14 experiences [1] - 15:20 54:24, 54:25, 62:16, 72:22 58:2, 84:29, 85:1, 85:10 event [3] - 67:2, 82:18, expert [4] - 23:22, 24:2, 64:12, 65:16, 70:7, electronically [1] - 49:5 82:22 71:9, 88:18 factual [5] - 68:30, 70:19, 71:13, 71:17, 74:2, 71:12, 85:22, 89:27 eleven [1] - 52:11 events [5] - 2:17, 28:19, expertise [3] - 3:1, 3:2, 77:20, 78:3, 84:6, eliminate [1] - 96:19 64:15, 70:1, 79:30 22:20 Fail [2] - 37:9, 37:26 86:21, 91:11, 91:12, elsewhere [1] - 23:5 evidence [76] - 2:5, 2:11, experts [3] - 9:2, 11:22, failure [4] - 6:12, 6:14, 91:15, 92:3, 96:6 7:1, 7:2 emanating [1] - 41:11 12:4, 12:9, 22:8, 25:23, 23:15 first-hand [2] - 62:16, embarked [1] - 21:29 25:28, 29:5, 31:23, explain [3] - 15:30, 17:6, fair [6] - 2:30, 45:18, 71:13 61:21, 64:16, 93:15, embedded [1] - 63:3 46:16, 47:8, 50:22, 18:2 firstly [1] - 8:15 95:19 embellish [2] - 21:9, 50:25, 51:1, 52:14, explained [1] - 91:13 fitting [1] - 87:10 fairly [6] - 14:4, 25:24, 49:20 52:16, 52:17, 52:18, explanation [1] - 15:19 Fitzsimmons [4] - 74:1, 26:20, 27:4, 50:6, 71:29 emerge [1] - 30:26 52:20, 52:22, 52:24, exploded [1] - 59:27 74:2, 75:29, 77:26 fairness [5] - 16:8, 75:17, emerged [1] - 59:14 52:26, 53:1, 53:3, 53:7, explosion [1] - 16:29 Fitzsimons [15] - 18:10, 77:29, 79:11, 93:9 emerging [1] - 29:21 54:9, 54:10, 57:14, explosive [2] - 33:3, 18:15, 18:17, 18:18, false [1] - 80:6 emotional [1] - 73:21 58:13, 60:11, 68:2, 55:27 20:12, 73:25, 74:20, familiar [4] - 19:17, empire [1] - 45:8 68:30, 70:18, 70:27, explosives [4] - 10:23, 75:24, 76:9, 77:11, 22:17, 48:17, 86:11 employee [1] - 85:15 71:2, 71:16, 71:21, 10:27, 25:26, 33:2 77:13, 78:5, 78:12, family [4] - 48:11, 48:18, encounter [6] - 20:5, 71:29, 72:13, 72:15, exposed [1] - 93:27 78:18, 81:23 51:27, 83:22 61:15, 75:15, 78:26, 73:4, 73:5, 75:12, 76:8, express [2] - 14:11, 28:25 five [1] - 56:4 fanfare [1] - 7:15 79:7, 79:14 76:19, 76:25, 76:26, expressed [2] - 29:29, fix [1] - 33:10 far [6] - 17:26, 43:5, encountered [2] - 80:12, 76:29, 78:12, 79:20, 36:25 flag [1] - 54:12 44:14, 51:26, 53:8, 81:4 79:26, 81:22, 81:24, expressing [1] - 29:20 flair [1] - 35:1 82:23, 83:16, 84:1, 59:25 encouraged [1] - 80:25 expression [1] - 21:13 Flanagan [8] - 17:15, 84:19, 86:8, 86:13, farmhouses [1] - 11:2 end [4] - 6:27, 21:6, 50:8, extensive [2] - 81:4, 64:30, 65:6, 65:11, 60:18 87:8, 87:15, 87:16, 81:22 farms [1] - 62:17 66:12, 68:13, 68:15, 87:27, 88:19, 90:20, fashioned [1] - 35:24 endeavours [1] - 3:1 extent [6] - 24:27, 76:4, 68:21 94:15, 94:16, 94:17, faults [1] - 43:30 ended [1] - 39:9 84:13, 86:8, 87:9, 89:8 flashed [1] - 59:6 94:18, 94:21, 94:23, favour [1] - 4:28 endemic [1] - 43:1 extradition [9] - 6:12, 7:2, flaw [1] - 46:11 96:6, 96:8, 96:13, fear [1] - 13:18 Enfield [3] - 10:27, 33:1, 31:20, 31:24, 32:18, fled [1] - 3:30 96:15, 96:23 33:5 32:23, 32:27, 80:12, fearful [1] - 82:11 flesh [1] - 21:16 ex [1] - 94:28 engage [1] - 77:14 82:15 fears [1] - 12:6 flight [2] - 54:8, 83:30 exact [1] - 24:27 engaged [1] - 20:14 extrapolate [1] - 44:1 feature [1] - 6:2 fly [1] - 25:26 exactly [1] - 50:27 engineers [1] - 24:1 extreme [3] - 36:15, 43:7, fed [2] - 58:19 flying [1] - 80:9 exaggerated [1] - 67:1 England [2] - 5:23, 6:25 87:6 feeding [1] - 6:1 focus [3] - 38:9, 50:29, exaggeration [1] - 34:22 enhance [1] - 9:28 extremely [2] - 22:14, feet [1] - 37:19 58:4 examination [6] - 33:3, enhancing [1] - 23:11 49:14 fellow [6] - 6:21, 47:25, focused [3] - 3:5, 15:6, 54:7, 96:11, 96:18, Enniskillen [2] - 12:16, ey [2] - 57:29, 94:11 47:26, 71:24, 72:26, 58:7 96:20 49:7 eye [1] - 67:12 77:13 focusing [1] - 86:15 examine [1] - 53:6 felt [6] - 7:10, 14:20, enormity [1] - 61:24 eyebrows [3] - 47:9, follow [2] - 15:18, 91:11 EXAMINED [6] - 2:1, 15:14, 38:1, 59:21, entered [1] - 60:13 94:16, 94:22 followed [3] - 65:23, 41:19, 54:3, 63:15, 62:18 entirely [2] - 9:10, 67:30 70:14, 92:14 83:25, 91:8 ferry [1] - 50:13 entirety [1] - 51:28 F following [3] - 3:10, 52:1, Examiner [1] - 27:1 few [7] - 19:6, 20:16, entitled [2] - 64:6, 65:17 53:7 example [14] - 10:10, face [2] - 15:22, 15:24 28:1, 36:24, 75:7, environment [1] - 81:6 follows [1] - 80:22 10:25, 13:4, 16:8, faces [1] - 46:11 80:28, 91:6 Eoin [1] - 5:21 FOLLOWS [8] - 1:2, 2:2, 25:17, 27:7, 31:20, facilitate [1] - 33:23 Fianna [2] - 37:9, 37:26 equally [4] - 44:25, 45:24, 41:19, 54:1, 54:4, 34:15, 36:15, 37:1, fact [49] - 3:6, 13:15, field [1] - 24:2 63:16, 83:25, 91:8
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 6 foot [2] - 60:8, 60:15 37:26 government [1] - 37:10 HAYES [2] - 52:13, 96:22 history [5] - 2:18, 3:8, FOR [1] - 53:16 gain [1] - 26:22 Governments [1] - 12:25 Hayes [1] - 96:4 35:8, 42:28, 43:10 Force [3] - 3:7, 26:11, game [1] - 21:1 governments [1] - 37:22 head [1] - 79:15 hmm [1] - 77:22 81:29 gaming [3] - 3:28, 4:17, gradually [1] - 33:17 headlines [1] - 49:29 holiday [1] - 29:12 forces [8] - 8:23, 11:27, 4:18 grant [1] - 53:11 headquarters [4] - 23:5, Home [1] - 39:12 12:26, 21:25, 49:1, gaming-machines [1] - grants [1] - 21:23 26:8, 58:23, 58:24 honest [3] - 16:5, 79:4, 49:23, 62:27, 80:25 3:28 grateful [1] - 95:28 Headquarters [5] - 58:19, 88:21 forensic [4] - 10:22, 33:3, garda [2] - 14:8, 71:24 great [7] - 6:11, 7:15, 58:21, 74:4, 80:26, hostile [1] - 34:24 50:5, 63:7 Garda [69] - 7:21, 7:22, 21:2, 24:20, 34:19, 93:26 hostility [1] - 8:24 forensics [1] - 33:4 7:24, 8:11, 8:14, 10:2, 47:6, 60:16 health [1] - 88:30 hotel [5] - 17:1, 17:4, foresee [1] - 96:16 10:8, 11:16, 11:29, grind [1] - 45:22 hear [14] - 2:8, 3:27, 17:24, 17:25, 18:3 forgotten [2] - 37:23, 12:1, 12:2, 12:11, 13:5, ground [11] - 6:9, 6:15, 19:20, 26:15, 26:26, Hotel [8] - 16:22, 16:23, 90:24 14:20, 14:26, 15:4, 8:4, 8:25, 9:1, 44:13, 26:28, 27:7, 31:12, 16:28, 19:18, 73:30, form [2] - 85:10, 93:13 15:9, 18:13, 21:4, 46:13, 46:14, 47:6, 48:1 57:26, 71:19, 90:9, 75:24, 77:5, 77:10 formal [1] - 12:23 30:22, 32:29, 34:2, grounds [1] - 31:24 92:18, 93:22, 94:7 hotels [1] - 50:17 formalised [1] - 33:20 35:17, 36:4, 36:27, group [1] - 36:16 heard [32] - 12:4, 13:4, hours [1] - 87:22 former [3] - 12:8, 65:20, 37:6, 37:8, 37:11, growth [1] - 69:16 19:22, 22:8, 26:27, house [2] - 26:9, 27:12 85:15 37:27, 38:13, 41:22, guard [8] - 13:1, 13:8, 27:9, 29:5, 37:26, 44:7, House [4] - 16:23, 17:19, fortified [1] - 24:13 42:18, 46:4, 57:18, 13:10, 13:13, 13:21, 46:16, 51:5, 51:7, 19:18, 77:10 forward [1] - 47:29 62:25, 69:19, 69:30, 14:6, 14:11, 72:26 57:14, 57:25, 60:11, houses [1] - 57:15 forwards [1] - 28:22 70:7, 70:8, 70:22, guarded [2] - 24:27, 64:18, 64:22, 70:12, HQ [1] - 39:30 four [6] - 7:18, 17:22, 70:29, 71:1, 71:2, 25:27 70:24, 70:25, 71:15, huddle [3] - 20:13, 20:14, 18:22, 48:25, 51:4, 71:18, 71:22, 71:30, guards [8] - 11:17, 12:29, 71:24, 71:27, 71:28, 20:15 72:7, 72:11, 72:14, 77:24 12:30, 14:16, 14:24, 81:18, 89:26, 90:27, huge [8] - 21:30, 23:3, fraternity [1] - 67:10 72:25, 73:10, 73:23, 14:25, 16:13, 80:27 92:6, 92:9, 92:10, 94:9, 26:3, 26:9, 33:28, 79:1, 79:2, 79:5, 80:29, free [1] - 17:8 guesstimate [1] - 22:23 96:23 77:30, 79:23, 79:25 81:5, 81:13, 81:19, freelance [1] - 2:23 guilt [1] - 31:23 hearing [3] - 11:5, 12:12, hundred [3] - 28:6, 43:4, 82:24, 82:30, 83:4, frequently [1] - 49:6 guilty [1] - 31:22 53:12 95:7 87:3, 88:1, 89:20, Friday [1] - 8:1 gunmen [1] - 11:9 hearings [2] - 96:16, Hunt [1] - 52:7 93:24, 93:25, 94:8, friend [5] - 30:8, 45:2, guy [2] - 19:24, 45:1 96:20 hurt [1] - 61:25 95:12 50:10, 69:7, 93:7 guys [1] - 7:29 heavily [1] - 25:27 Garda/RUC [1] - 81:21 heavily-guarded [1] - friends [2] - 52:8, 69:10 I Gardaí [3] - 13:3, 13:7, 25:27 Friends [1] - 41:17 H 51:6 heavy [3] - 24:14, 37:12, IDA [3] - 4:9, 5:24, 5:25 front [2] - 42:26, 52:20 gathered [2] - 56:25, half [1] - 77:24 77:13 IDA-funded [1] - 4:9 frontier [1] - 9:8 79:30 hand [10] - 7:2, 9:10, heavy-set [1] - 77:13 idea [2] - 20:13, 66:29 frustration [7] - 6:4, 6:12, gathering [4] - 10:23, 15:16, 16:4, 32:6, 13:28, 30:6, 62:16, helicopter [2] - 74:5, 74:6 ideal [1] - 33:26 12:20, 42:6, 76:11 32:27, 33:11 66:9, 71:13, 82:25, helicopters [2] - 60:14, ideally [1] - 5:14 GC [1] - 39:30 94:20, 94:21 ideas [1] - 39:1 frustrations [2] - 7:13, 60:15 gelignite [2] - 10:25, hand-washing [1] - 94:20 80:10 help [11] - 21:3, 21:4, identified [2] - 5:19, 78:5 10:30 hand-wringing [1] - 41:23, 47:27, 68:12, identity [1] - 41:10 full [5] - 21:5, 43:11, general [15] - 8:27, 13:2, 84:10, 85:2, 93:10 94:21 71:12, 71:13, 87:12, IEDs [1] - 60:9 14:14, 18:27, 20:3, handed [2] - 14:1, 83:5 88:19, 95:25, 95:29 full-time [1] - 84:10 imagine [2] - 25:7, 48:5 20:17, 26:7, 28:27, handing [1] - 65:25 helping [1] - 19:25 fullest [1] - 89:8 immediate [3] - 33:27, 29:1, 31:9, 43:15, 44:1, handle [1] - 95:14 Hermon [5] - 34:2, 34:9, fully [2] - 52:20, 93:11 48:29, 69:27 45:13, 67:21, 73:9 handover [2] - 82:28, 34:16, 34:18, 34:28 immediately [5] - 19:7, fulsome [1] - 16:5 generality [1] - 75:2 83:1 Hero [1] - 64:6 49:4, 53:6, 58:19, 59:10 Fulton [20] - 64:8, 64:25, generally [1] - 28:1 65:8, 65:9, 65:12, hands [2] - 62:9, 62:11 hi [1] - 22:3 immunity [1] - 61:27 gentlemen [1] - 1:4 65:21, 66:3, 66:7, Hanna [5] - 29:10, 29:18, hi-tec [1] - 22:3 impasse [1] - 32:17 geography [1] - 60:5 66:21, 67:2, 67:14, 48:11, 48:14, 51:27 Higgins [3] - 48:23, implementation [1] - Gibson [7] - 27:28, 27:30, 67:18, 67:23, 68:1, Hannas [1] - 48:30 49:10, 49:11 73:19 28:13, 29:9, 29:17, 68:7, 68:20, 68:23, happily [1] - 88:14 high [13] - 6:3, 10:14, implemented [1] - 9:25 30:3, 30:26 68:26, 68:28, 96:12 happy [2] - 34:13, 88:28 10:23, 23:1, 25:24, important [9] - 36:1, Gibsons [3] - 28:26, Fulton's [5] - 64:5, 68:4, hard [2] - 27:21, 89:27 35:4, 38:24, 38:28, 40:29, 44:3, 45:4, 59:5, 30:17, 50:7 68:25, 96:10, 96:15 harnden [1] - 92:26 46:12, 51:14, 78:7, 60:7, 74:7, 74:8, 74:10 given [22] - 9:13, 25:23, 81:6, 86:28 function [2] - 56:19, 81:9 Harnden [15] - 69:4, impression [8] - 27:19, 25:28, 46:24, 47:8, high-powered [3] - 23:1, fund [1] - 4:25 69:17, 69:21, 69:24, 32:6, 38:15, 51:26, 49:15, 52:17, 59:18, 25:24, 38:24 funded [1] - 4:9 70:5, 71:17, 71:21, 62:28, 73:12, 93:13, 62:29, 66:15, 69:15, 72:17, 72:26, 72:28, higher [3] - 10:15, 13:12, 93:15 funding [3] - 5:24, 5:25, 76:8, 76:19, 81:22, 5:28 72:29, 73:5, 73:6, 92:23 47:9 impressions [2] - 92:24, 81:24, 82:23, 86:8, Harnden's [1] - 71:20 highest [1] - 68:19 93:9 fundraising [2] - 4:19, 87:8, 87:14, 87:27, 4:30 Harry [8] - 27:16, 27:17, highlighted [1] - 40:26 improve [2] - 33:17, 89:6, 94:15 27:19, 36:21, 47:23, hilltop [1] - 60:6 33:24 funeral [1] - 52:10 glamorous [1] - 63:24 82:7 him' [1] - 77:16 improvement [1] - 33:18 future [1] - 81:25 glean [2] - 28:15, 28:18 hate [2] - 45:5 himself [4] - 73:2, 75:23, improvised [1] - 55:27 gleaned [2] - 45:17, 66:11 G Haughey [1] - 8:19 83:13, 92:24 inability [1] - 88:10 glimpses [2] - 42:25, 43:7 HAVING [1] - 2:1 hindsight [1] - 43:19 inaccurate [1] - 44:1 Gael [3] - 8:25, 37:8, God [1] - 88:4 hawk [1] - 66:21 historic [1] - 42:3 inadequacies [1] - 7:14
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 7 incendiary [1] - 16:30 27:10, 45:18, 86:5 INTO [1] - 96:26 issued [2] - 68:21, 68:29 Kevin [11] - 64:5, 64:8, inception [1] - 85:30 informer [1] - 65:20 introduced [7] - 18:9, issues [6] - 9:23, 38:9, 64:25, 65:8, 65:21, incidence [1] - 13:9 informers [1] - 44:19 18:11, 18:14, 58:3, 38:10, 39:2, 48:10, 66:21, 67:2, 67:23, incident [5] - 15:29, initiation [1] - 55:29 77:11, 78:4, 79:9 79:22 68:4, 68:23, 69:30 19:29, 31:1, 42:29, initiatives [1] - 41:2 introduction [1] - 77:18 items [2] - 45:22, 54:16 key [1] - 20:28 86:16 initiators [1] - 70:4 investigate [2] - 34:6, killed [6] - 16:29, 29:17, incidents [14] - 8:7, 8:8, injuries [1] - 7:5 90:9 J 30:3, 49:18, 51:29, 74:5 27:30, 29:12, 29:15, INLA [1] - 83:8 investigated [1] - 89:13 Killeen [7] - 27:24, 29:3, Jack [3] - 34:28, 35:13, 29:20, 29:21, 29:28, Inn [1] - 30:12 investigating [2] - 44:16, 29:21, 31:3, 31:14, 35:22 31:2, 42:3, 43:14, innocent [1] - 47:28 67:8 54:18, 59:20 Jack's [1] - 36:7 55:11, 82:10, 86:28 innovations [1] - 56:25 investigation [5] - 2:7, killers [1] - 11:3 James [2] - 57:29, 94:10 included [2] - 70:13, inquiries [5] - 3:22, 4:2, 5:13, 26:10, 27:8, 69:30 killing [5] - 6:21, 29:18, Jamie [1] - 17:15 71:22 4:16, 16:10, 43:13 investigations [2] - 48:11, 48:29, 59:27 January [1] - 65:15 incognito [1] - 94:2 inquiry [2] - 2:6, 30:30 11:14, 90:15 killings [6] - 11:7, 26:17, Jeep [1] - 48:13 incorrect [1] - 79:10 inside [1] - 24:16 invisible [1] - 42:26 28:13, 29:10, 33:28 Jeffrey [1] - 69:29 increase [1] - 22:3 insisted [1] - 65:26 invite [1] - 13:24 kind [2] - 4:30, 36:18 Jenkins [1] - 86:2 increased [1] - 32:26 Inspector [2] - 71:23, involved [9] - 12:4, 20:2, kindly [1] - 2:10 Jeremy [1] - 86:2 incredible [1] - 82:29 72:25 20:9, 27:7, 38:11, Kintyre [1] - 74:6 Jim [3] - 3:15, 27:1, 96:7 indeed [28] - 4:19, 6:22, instance [1] - 44:7 59:15, 63:30, 66:9, knowing [3] - 31:17, Jimmy [4] - 17:11, 18:5, 9:24, 10:26, 11:17, instructions [2] - 77:3, 66:28 37:28, 68:28 11:30, 12:18, 12:24, 79:17 involvement [4] - 62:9, 18:6, 18:15 knowledge [17] - 16:21, job [4] - 27:21, 36:1, 13:8, 15:27, 20:19, insufficient [1] - 6:19 63:29, 67:13, 89:20 20:11, 21:7, 23:29, 63:24, 90:6 20:29, 24:18, 28:23, integrity [3] - 36:9, 68:13, IRA [36] - 4:24, 4:30, 6:6, 38:19, 38:21, 40:18, John [5] - 34:2, 34:9, 31:1, 33:1, 41:3, 43:10, 68:17 6:8, 6:16, 7:1, 7:3, 8:29, 70:18, 71:9, 74:7, 34:16, 34:18, 94:18 47:4, 48:9, 56:6, 57:16, intelligence [29] - 5:18, 9:3, 11:9, 19:25, 23:10, 81:28, 86:9, 86:15, 59:30, 63:13, 63:25, 11:16, 12:20, 12:21, 23:15, 26:16, 46:7, joined [2] - 2:22, 92:28 87:7, 87:9, 88:2, 89:9 85:2, 93:30, 95:30 23:30, 38:19, 38:21, 48:3, 48:30, 49:23, joint [2] - 9:18, 21:14 known [12] - 3:2, 23:25, independent [3] - 37:20, 39:5, 39:7, 39:10, 55:8, 59:8, 61:26, 62:6, jointly [2] - 9:7, 59:22 24:13, 30:21, 30:28, 37:22, 44:21 39:24, 40:20, 41:25, 62:19, 64:19, 70:9, Jonesboro [1] - 60:4 41:10, 65:20, 66:14, independently [1] - 46:1 42:6, 44:8, 44:9, 44:14, 70:23, 71:19, 72:14, journalism [2] - 66:29, 67:4, 67:9, 71:3, 78:19 indicate [1] - 7:8 44:26, 44:27, 52:19, 75:13, 75:14, 75:21, 90:18 knows [1] - 88:5 indicated [2] - 16:9, 53:2, 53:5, 74:9, 76:11, 75:23, 75:26, 76:30, journalist [14] - 2:16, 93:19 76:21, 81:26 80:13, 81:26 22:11, 45:11, 45:13, L indicating [2] - 70:3, Intelligence [2] - 39:17, IRA's [3] - 5:11, 25:11, 45:16, 46:11, 47:2, lack [9] - 6:30, 10:4, 10:6, 76:20 40:5 32:30 49:13, 63:19, 63:22, 13:3, 34:10, 46:25, indicative [2] - 88:11, intelligence-gathering Iraq [1] - 63:3 84:11, 85:28, 90:6, 80:10, 88:11 90:26 [1] - 42:6 Ireland [33] - 2:17, 2:26, 92:25 ladies [1] - 1:4 indifferent [1] - 90:28 intended [1] - 96:7 2:27, 2:29, 3:21, 3:23, journalistic [3] - 3:1, land [2] - 55:5, 60:13 indirect [1] - 89:4 intense [2] - 15:2, 87:6 3:27, 4:15, 10:26, 11:13, 67:10 journalists [8] - 8:5, 8:6, landscape [3] - 80:14, individual [5] - 7:14, intensity [3] - 10:15, 11:10, 15:1, 20:28, 80:15, 87:11 12:29, 14:13, 45:22, 62:26 23:6, 24:19, 36:29, 28:24, 62:29, 63:26, 67:4, 69:23, 87:25 large [6] - 46:17, 49:27, 66:25 intensive [2] - 9:22, 46:12 38:12, 39:6, 39:12, judge [1] - 29:11 51:9, 56:13, 61:19, individuals [2] - 63:29, intention [1] - 52:26 39:14, 39:24, 40:17, 41:30, 49:15, 63:20, judged [1] - 20:27 66:26 80:28 interacted [1] - 38:29 63:23, 69:6, 71:9, 74:9, judges [1] - 51:10 last [5] - 12:9, 41:25, infancy [1] - 56:28 interaction [1] - 38:14 80:4, 81:7, 82:16, judiciary [1] - 51:13 65:20, 67:6, 67:7 inference [1] - 30:20 intercept [4] - 26:2, 86:12, 93:1 late [6] - 1:5, 3:24, 33:8, inferences [1] - 20:6 27:11, 57:30, 92:15 jumped [2] - 3:25, 3:30 Irish [42] - 5:26, 6:5, 6:7, June [1] - 64:29 64:19, 78:1 influence [1] - 37:13 intercepted [2] - 57:4, 7:16, 7:22, 8:8, 9:7, latest [1] - 84:1 information [55] - 6:1, 57:12 junior [1] - 12:14 9:17, 9:19, 9:25, 10:2, launched [1] - 83:7 11:15, 11:16, 12:7, interception [1] - 26:12 jurisdiction [4] - 4:1, 10:7, 10:28, 11:6, 20:24, 32:25, 47:13 lavatory [2] - 19:1 13:6, 13:16, 13:19, interceptions [2] - 26:14, 11:19, 20:21, 20:29, law [4] - 6:20, 68:26, 14:7, 15:12, 17:7, 26:16 Jurisdiction [1] - 32:24 20:30, 21:2, 21:4, 21:8, 68:28, 68:29 19:13, 21:9, 26:22, interdict [2] - 7:3, 80:13 jury [1] - 43:28 21:11, 21:20, 21:24, Law [1] - 32:23 28:18, 28:27, 32:2, interest [9] - 3:12, 4:13, Justice [4] - 27:28, 30:26, 32:11, 32:13, 33:8, laws [3] - 7:2, 31:21, 38:19, 38:21, 39:28, 58:12, 78:22, 87:6, 94:28 33:10, 33:11, 33:13, 32:18 39:30, 40:29, 42:15, 87:7, 87:8, 87:25, 87:27 justice [2] - 31:29, 32:23 34:20, 34:23, 34:26, lead [1] - 7:20 43:21, 43:23, 45:17, interested [4] - 38:16, justification [2] - 36:17, 38:1, 38:4, 38:13, 41:1, leading [2] - 33:13, 34:7 45:30, 47:30, 48:4, 66:2, 78:21, 89:22 44:18 41:8, 59:22, 62:25, leak [3] - 30:30, 33:30, 48:12, 49:20, 50:15, interesting [4] - 38:3, justified [2] - 90:2, 90:20 64:29, 65:14 36:4 51:2, 58:18, 59:1, 59:3, 38:6, 38:15, 79:27 Justin [1] - 91:19 61:14, 62:12, 63:9, Irishmen [1] - 6:21 leaked [2] - 13:19, 31:10 interests [1] - 63:1 66:11, 66:15, 70:6, irregularities [1] - 42:19 leaking [2] - 29:27, 32:2 internal [2] - 38:25, 38:26 K 70:8, 70:22, 70:28, island [1] - 73:14 leaks [1] - 35:17 interpreted [1] - 87:29 71:18, 72:12, 72:24, isolated [5] - 11:2, 13:9, keen [2] - 9:24, 20:29 leaned [1] - 30:11 interrupted [1] - 17:28 83:20, 86:10, 90:23, 59:1, 62:17 keep [1] - 67:11 learned [1] - 45:4 interview [1] - 67:26 90:29, 92:7, 92:11, issue [7] - 7:6, 12:11, keeping [2] - 41:28, 67:19 least [5] - 26:6, 46:4, interviewed [2] - 68:8, 92:20 41:25, 75:19, 77:30, Ken [1] - 17:16 63:1, 67:10, 78:23 68:10 informed [4] - 26:29, 79:23 kept [1] - 85:1 leave [2] - 42:28, 77:23 intimate [1] - 15:28
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 8 leaving [1] - 59:20 lower [1] - 13:11 82:25, 83:5 84:25, 84:26 73:30, 75:23, 77:5, led [6] - 5:20, 10:24, 29:2, Lowry [1] - 51:18 McKittrick [1] - 85:28 mess [1] - 44:30 77:10 29:28, 33:29, 96:15 Loyalist [1] - 34:24 McNamee [1] - 5:21 messages [2] - 35:28, Monaghan [2] - 95:12, left [5] - 18:24, 30:6, 56:8, loyalist [1] - 36:15 meal [1] - 18:8 35:29 95:22 69:6, 92:30 loyalists [2] - 4:19, 4:25 mean [82] - 7:13, 9:4, messes [1] - 38:5 money [17] - 4:26, 4:29, left-hand [1] - 30:6 Loyalists [1] - 35:3 11:1, 12:15, 14:19, met [20] - 16:21, 18:19, 5:6, 5:12, 19:10, 64:1, legal [5] - 9:1, 32:18, lucrative [1] - 4:27 15:22, 18:27, 19:10, 19:18, 27:17, 28:1, 64:3, 64:26, 66:26, 32:22, 51:13, 61:8 lunch [11] - 17:2, 17:3, 22:26, 25:2, 25:12, 28:3, 64:10, 64:12, 67:3, 75:6, 76:3, 76:7, legislation [1] - 32:23 17:29, 18:20, 18:21, 25:21, 27:4, 28:4, 68:7, 73:27, 73:28, 77:6, 77:18, 79:15, 94:4 less [1] - 42:1 18:22, 20:15, 20:17, 28:15, 29:8, 29:13, 73:30, 74:2, 74:13, money-spinning [1] - letting [1] - 24:17 28:16, 51:21, 77:21 29:19, 29:23, 30:29, 74:17, 74:26, 81:3, 4:26 level [16] - 5:8, 6:4, 11:25, LUNCH [2] - 53:16, 54:1 31:15, 31:18, 31:27, 82:9, 93:3 monitor [1] - 25:8 11:27, 12:23, 33:25, lunches [1] - 38:4 32:12, 32:15, 33:6, meter [1] - 25:14 monitored [1] - 58:12 37:7, 38:28, 40:6, lunchtime [3] - 77:20, 33:24, 36:5, 38:3, methods [1] - 23:13 monitoring [1] - 24:26 40:13, 40:14, 40:18, 78:1 39:26, 40:11, 40:19, MI5 [10] - 39:18, 41:11, mood [2] - 34:23, 34:27 61:18, 63:11, 81:6 lying [1] - 60:18 42:25, 44:13, 44:16, 77:15, 78:13, 78:15, morning [12] - 1:4, 1:7, levels [4] - 12:14, 13:12 44:28, 46:7, 47:22, 78:21, 80:2, 93:19, 28:16, 28:20, 28:21, liaison [3] - 31:17, 33:20, M 48:14, 48:17, 49:3, 93:22 45:5, 48:16, 52:5, 52:8, 61:13 49:6, 49:13, 50:10, MI6 [2] - 39:18, 41:11 52:11, 87:28, 95:4 life [9] - 43:20, 49:30, machinery [1] - 5:13 50:28, 51:16, 55:13, Michael [1] - 41:21 mortar [2] - 24:12, 24:15 50:1, 61:25, 74:8, 75:3, machines [7] - 3:28, 4:17, 55:16, 55:26, 56:2, mid-1970s [1] - 75:25 mortar-attacked [1] - 76:30, 79:28, 84:11 4:18, 4:24, 4:28, 5:6, 56:16, 56:26, 58:20, middle [1] - 46:12 24:15 light [4] - 42:19, 47:24, 5:15 59:11, 59:24, 59:26, might [29] - 13:19, 13:23, most [14] - 2:20, 3:4, 47:27, 48:8 macro [2] - 46:25, 47:19 61:10, 62:3, 62:22, 15:14, 17:16, 18:6, 7:26, 14:14, 14:28, Liles [2] - 52:15, 52:30 magazine [1] - 50:3 66:23, 67:4, 68:26, 18:24, 19:30, 22:9, 15:1, 20:17, 22:27, 69:22, 70:30, 71:12, Liles' [3] - 53:7, 54:8, magistrates [1] - 51:11 28:4, 28:7, 28:8, 28:9, 28:27, 46:29, 67:21, 83:30 Mail [3] - 66:5, 67:3, 67:5 72:21, 73:1, 73:17, 28:24, 36:15, 41:17, 79:22, 85:8, 85:27 73:20, 74:12, 75:27, limited [6] - 8:10, 8:15, main [4] - 22:29, 22:30, 41:23, 42:21, 43:10, motivated [1] - 37:12 10:7, 10:8, 38:14, 73:13 30:7, 45:21 78:6, 81:1, 81:15, 82:8, 43:23, 55:21, 56:17, motives [1] - 68:19 82:28, 84:17, 84:23, line [7] - 22:30, 26:7, maintain [2] - 34:15, 61:15, 69:13, 81:8, motor [1] - 57:27 85:4, 85:16, 86:30, 27:11, 30:29, 42:26, 84:11 81:17, 81:18, 83:20, mounted [1] - 70:13 87:17 59:27, 62:7 maintained [1] - 37:24 93:5, 93:6 move [3] - 11:9, 11:10, means [1] - 20:30 lines [5] - 2:6, 26:21, major [2] - 15:29, 32:14 mile [1] - 54:30 60:3 meant [2] - 37:29, 43:20 33:22, 41:5, 41:6 maker [1] - 5:22 miles [4] - 30:13, 48:28, moved [1] - 60:7 measured [1] - 61:24 link [1] - 3:28 Malley [1] - 85:29 60:12, 87:18 movement [1] - 31:11 measures [5] - 23:9, linking [1] - 29:19 man [10] - 5:21, 9:7, 17:4, military [8] - 2:25, 9:14, movements [2] - 58:10, 23:24, 23:25, 24:22, links [1] - 4:13 18:12, 27:21, 68:13, 25:27, 38:10, 44:25, 58:11 24:26 Lisburn [3] - 26:8, 44:30, 74:15, 83:4, 87:17, 45:2, 45:21, 62:13 moves [2] - 95:24, 95:25 Meath [1] - 33:5 58:23 95:16 mind [4] - 8:2, 12:10, MR [24] - 1:7, 2:2, 2:4, mechanical [1] - 24:1 listen [1] - 25:6 man's [2] - 55:5, 60:13 18:29, 68:9 2:15, 14:11, 41:16, mechanisms [1] - 33:20 listened [1] - 57:11 manned [1] - 59:22 mindful [2] - 35:1, 84:3 41:19, 41:21, 51:20, media [3] - 33:28, 85:9, listening [4] - 57:17, manpower [1] - 10:8 mine [3] - 3:20, 21:8, 30:8 51:25, 52:13, 54:3, 57:20, 57:22, 57:24 manufacture [1] - 4:14 85:19 minister [1] - 94:18 54:6, 54:16, 63:15, meet [6] - 16:20, 17:2, lived [4] - 11:2, 48:15, March [3] - 29:19, 34:1, Minister [8] - 8:20, 38:30, 63:18, 83:25, 83:29, 62:15, 62:18 34:17 20:10, 31:16, 91:19, 39:11, 39:12, 40:2, 84:3, 91:6, 91:8, 91:10, 94:3 lives [1] - 43:9 marks [2] - 68:3, 68:22 41:4, 94:28 96:4, 96:22 meeting [9] - 16:25, loans [1] - 21:22 marshy [1] - 46:14 ministers [1] - 40:3 MS [1] - 91:4 16:26, 17:28, 19:14, local [3] - 11:4, 58:27, massive [1] - 11:9 minuscule [1] - 61:23 Mull [1] - 74:6 27:22, 34:7, 81:18, 62:15 MAT [1] - 29:8 minute [2] - 67:6, 67:7 murder [3] - 27:28, 76:30, 91:22, 91:29 locally [2] - 30:18, 58:25 match [1] - 82:29 minutes [1] - 60:27 89:20 meetings [5] - 31:17, location [1] - 4:5 matched [1] - 47:5 miscellaneous [1] - murdered [5] - 11:3, 29:9, 39:1, 39:3, 81:15, 81:17 locations [2] - 12:19, material [2] - 40:12, 41:8 36:24 51:27, 69:19, 86:16 megaphone [1] - 61:22 14:25 matter [12] - 13:23, 26:24, mistaken [1] - 29:11 murders [21] - 27:2, member [7] - 2:28, 44:7, locus [1] - 39:13 32:7, 54:8, 65:17, 71:4, mistakes [2] - 43:5, 43:29 27:15, 33:30, 36:3, 52:7, 64:18, 81:5, logged [2] - 58:10 84:16, 86:17, 87:5, mix [1] - 93:4 55:22, 82:3, 84:15, 82:12, 82:24 loggerheads [1] - 44:28 93:23 mixed [1] - 47:3 84:23, 85:19, 85:20, members [7] - 13:11, logistical [1] - 54:7 matters [9] - 3:3, 3:11, mixing [1] - 80:26 86:6, 86:7, 86:28, 87:4, 37:8, 47:11, 79:2, logistics [1] - 11:12 5:8, 15:26, 36:24, mobile [3] - 10:10, 57:3, 87:15, 87:17, 88:9, 81:12, 81:13, 83:7 89:4, 89:7, 90:28, 90:30 London [9] - 2:20, 4:15, 41:23, 52:18, 52:19, 87:20 memorable [1] - 79:14 6:10, 6:29, 19:12, 53:2 model [2] - 25:24, 25:30 must [7] - 30:17, 30:18, memory [3] - 19:16, 61:17, 85:7, 92:30 McBurney [6] - 83:19, modestly [1] - 64:5 85:8, 85:12, 86:4, 19:20, 85:17 88:10, 94:5 longest [1] - 85:27 83:21, 91:13, 91:18, mole [9] - 29:24, 33:29, men [7] - 11:1, 17:4, 37:9, mutinous [1] - 34:23 look [2] - 19:4, 23:2 92:1, 92:2 34:4, 49:26, 50:26, 37:26, 86:16, 89:21 mutual [2] - 73:23, 80:24 looking [5] - 19:4, 67:3, McCann [5] - 3:15, 3:18, 54:17, 75:13, 75:14, mention [2] - 24:25, 74:7, 74:27, 75:18 3:22, 4:17, 96:7 94:26 Myers [1] - 69:30 36:22 lookout [1] - 24:7 McCann's [3] - 3:19, moles [2] - 80:16, 88:1 mentioned [6] - 55:14, Lord [2] - 27:28, 30:26 4:11, 5:20 Mon [9] - 16:22, 16:23, McGlinchey [3] - 82:16, 73:9, 79:26, 82:13, low [1] - 78:7 16:28, 17:19, 19:18,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 9
N night [7] - 56:17, 56:21, oath [1] - 72:27 82:15, 83:21, 84:1 77:21 56:27, 56:30, 77:9, observation [3] - 22:1, old [6] - 16:28, 17:1, optics [1] - 8:3 naive [1] - 66:25 77:20, 77:21 22:21, 60:7 17:25, 29:13, 35:24, or.. [2] - 55:30, 67:26 name [34] - 3:14, 3:15, nobody [5] - 8:7, 29:23, observing [1] - 70:14 37:17 ordinary [2] - 44:8, 45:12 12:29, 13:24, 13:27, 31:7, 47:12 obsession [1] - 10:19 old-fashioned [1] - 35:24 ordinator [1] - 39:5 14:4, 14:6, 14:7, 14:8, non [1] - 19:7 obvious [1] - 18:5 older [3] - 48:24, 51:28, organisation [6] - 13:17, 16:16, 17:8, 19:15, non-committal [1] - 19:7 obviously [14] - 18:16, 51:30 43:16, 44:12, 45:10, 19:17, 19:21, 19:22, nonetheless [3] - 55:8, 19:7, 19:14, 20:16, Omagh [3] - 65:1, 65:23, 85:9, 95:14 19:28, 20:5, 30:27, 56:15, 56:29 26:23, 29:11, 40:23, 67:9 organisational [1] - 43:18 36:22, 41:21, 50:14, normally [1] - 39:18 43:4, 66:10, 67:22, ON [1] - 1:1 organisations [1] - 4:26 50:16, 50:17, 50:24, North [24] - 6:21, 6:27, 71:8, 75:18, 79:29, on-the-ground [1] - 6:15 organise [1] - 11:11 79:8, 79:16, 93:27, 7:5, 9:3, 9:15, 28:28, 96:12 once [8] - 3:21, 6:23, organised [1] - 10:9 95:5, 95:8, 95:15, 29:11, 29:19, 31:23, occasion [13] - 13:8, 7:15, 16:21, 28:5, 40:6, original [3] - 16:28, 17:1, 95:21, 96:10, 96:17, 35:3, 37:16, 37:17, 16:11, 16:20, 22:11, 50:1, 79:28 17:25 96:19 41:28, 42:3, 61:6, 61:8, 48:9, 73:28, 76:15, one [78] - 3:13, 7:23, otherwise [4] - 43:27, Name [1] - 14:1 61:25, 61:26, 61:30, 81:3, 81:8, 81:20, 9:23, 13:8, 14:19, 59:23, 61:22, 66:16 names [3] - 16:13, 41:14, 62:1, 62:13, 62:27, 84:20, 93:19, 95:3 14:29, 16:8, 16:16, ourselves [1] - 21:28 87:22 73:18 occasional [2] - 81:15, 18:4, 18:9, 22:11, outline [2] - 2:18, 25:10 naming [2] - 17:7, 17:10 north [2] - 46:26, 73:15 86:26 22:27, 22:28, 23:8, outset [2] - 2:4, 22:13 naturally [1] - 47:2 Northern [31] - 2:17, 2:25, occasionally [3] - 13:15, 24:4, 24:5, 24:21, outside [3] - 4:4, 40:17, nature [3] - 52:19, 52:24, 2:26, 2:28, 3:21, 3:23, 28:3, 93:4 25:22, 26:11, 26:25, 47:13 65:10 3:27, 4:15, 10:26, occasions [14] - 14:23, 27:30, 28:15, 31:6, overall [4] - 32:5, 58:21, near [1] - 4:6 11:10, 15:1, 23:6, 27:17, 27:23, 27:29, 31:21, 32:6, 32:25, 80:9, 80:17 nearest [1] - 54:25 24:19, 36:29, 38:12, 38:4, 51:4, 56:2, 59:28, 33:18, 34:10, 36:13, overlooked [1] - 22:29 necessarily [7] - 36:5, 39:6, 39:12, 39:14, 61:12, 82:9, 82:10, 37:9, 42:29, 44:30, overriding [1] - 32:6 42:14, 42:17, 42:18, 45:4, 48:10, 49:15, 39:23, 40:17, 41:29, 90:19, 90:20, 90:21 overtly [3] - 36:27, 38:6, 43:3, 46:22, 80:30 49:15, 63:19, 63:23, occupied [1] - 48:24 49:22, 49:28, 50:28, 38:16 necessary [3] - 1:5, 9:3, 69:6, 71:9, 74:9, 80:4, 51:16, 51:20, 51:26, occurred [2] - 29:1, 54:18 overview [1] - 40:21 34:15 81:7, 82:16, 86:11 54:7, 54:25, 55:22, odd [1] - 81:8 owe [1] - 47:23 need [5] - 14:9, 14:12, northern [5] - 8:23, 8:27, 56:24, 57:7, 57:25, OF [1] - 1:1 Owen [19] - 16:17, 16:20, 14:15, 58:28, 83:30 58:3, 59:26, 60:27, 9:24, 11:28, 87:7 offence [3] - 3:26, 31:25, 18:12, 18:15, 36:22, [1] 62:28, 63:2, 63:4, needed - 10:14 note [1] - 80:21 31:26 63:19, 73:22, 74:17, 65:26, 70:3, 70:19, negotiation [3] - 41:6, nothing [14] - 8:7, 18:28, offences [1] - 32:25 76:9, 76:20, 76:29, 70:25, 73:7, 73:28, 66:10 20:18, 55:17, 59:16, offer [4] - 20:24, 21:13, 79:6, 80:25, 80:27, 76:14, 76:28, 78:10, negotiations [4] - 9:16, 62:3, 62:25, 89:3, 89:4, 75:3, 75:5 82:11, 82:13, 82:23, 81:3, 83:14, 85:27, 9:22, 33:13, 41:5 89:13, 89:26, 89:27, offered [1] - 66:26 83:3, 83:10 network [6] - 5:18, 7:23, 86:5, 90:3, 90:21, 90:1, 96:14 offering [1] - 66:3 own [24] - 7:13, 13:17, 90:22, 92:16, 93:2, 7:25, 9:27, 22:2, 74:9 notice [4] - 96:7, 96:12, offhand [1] - 95:1 14:17, 20:13, 30:27, 93:13, 93:19, 95:4 never [31] - 6:28, 8:30, 96:15, 96:18 Office [1] - 39:6 33:14, 34:20, 37:10, one-to-one [1] - 14:19 11:20, 19:8, 25:28, November [2] - 91:24, office [2] - 40:3, 44:30 38:25, 38:26, 44:25, one-to-ones [1] - 33:18 27:9, 33:24, 37:5, 91:25 Officer [1] - 17:12 45:22, 46:8, 49:30, ones [5] - 9:29, 24:6, 60:16, 64:12, 66:23, Nuala [3] - 64:30, 65:6, officer [22] - 14:14, 17:2, 50:2, 50:14, 50:16, 66:28, 67:18, 68:7, 67:22 18:5, 18:13, 19:9, 29:17, 33:18, 47:6 50:17, 50:18, 50:24, 68:8, 68:18, 70:24, number [27] - 3:11, 22:26, 19:13, 26:7, 43:21, ongoing [5] - 2:7, 16:10, 67:13, 79:28, 85:17, 71:28, 72:28, 75:14, 24:12, 27:23, 27:29, 67:8, 73:1, 73:4, 74:3, 33:16, 40:27, 64:30 95:13 76:6, 78:19, 78:24, 29:6, 29:15, 30:22, 76:6, 76:28, 83:4, open [2] - 35:23, 59:20 78:30, 82:11, 82:13, 31:7, 38:3, 38:24, 92:19, 93:25, 94:1, openly [2] - 12:30 P 89:13, 90:29 38:27, 42:2, 46:27, 95:5, 95:8, 95:12, 95:16 opens [2] - 30:29, 44:22 nevertheless [2] - 34:8, pace [1] - 56:25 51:10, 52:8, 58:4, 58:5, officers [34] - 8:11, 12:4, operated [6] - 4:28, 24:9, 53:4 58:8, 58:9, 61:11, 12:12, 12:16, 14:16, 38:27, 39:21, 45:26, pack [1] - 25:25 new [2] - 2:11, 89:30 63:28, 70:1, 82:10, 14:19, 14:20, 15:7, 62:6 paid [2] - 50:17, 94:4 Newman [1] - 17:16 84:6, 92:16 17:8, 24:19, 29:9, 30:1, operating [5] - 4:4, 6:17, paper [4] - 13:27, 14:1, Newry [11] - 12:16, 15:3, numbers [4] - 27:25, 34:21, 36:9, 36:28, 10:14, 39:23, 62:7 49:28, 50:3 15:8, 28:5, 30:3, 30:6, 58:15, 58:16, 79:5 37:3, 37:25, 37:27, operation [2] - 27:12, papers [2] - 48:16, 55:13 30:7, 31:10, 35:9, 38:5, 46:27, 47:22, 28:25 parallel [1] - 44:27 36:10, 54:29 O 47:25, 47:26, 61:10, Operational [1] - 58:21 Park [1] - 70:1 Newry-Dundalk [2] - 61:12, 69:23, 73:14, operational [1] - 39:4 parked [2] - 55:25, 55:26 O'Callaghan [3] - 92:5, 35:9, 36:10 75:3, 75:5, 76:19, operations [12] - 3:19, parking [1] - 25:14 93:18, 96:12 newspaper [8] - 65:21, 78:18, 81:5, 87:21 7:3, 12:2, 23:5, 24:10, parking-meter [1] - 25:14 O'CALLAGHAN [2] - 65:26, 66:3, 66:5, officers' [1] - 38:5 24:13, 31:10, 33:15, part [8] - 9:26, 13:10, 63:15, 63:18 66:13, 66:17, 66:24, official [1] - 6:24 39:1, 40:13, 40:22, 21:5, 36:1, 39:10, 41:4, O'Callaghan's [1] - 91:11 85:9 officials [1] - 62:24 80:13 45:15, 80:14 o'clock [5] - 51:20, 51:23, newspapers [8] - 64:26, often [8] - 12:5, 12:18, operator [2] - 58:5, 58:17 particular [24] - 3:1, 3:2, 52:11, 53:14, 77:24 66:8, 66:21, 67:11, 44:14, 44:28, 48:4, operators [1] - 58:8 9:18, 11:15, 14:12, O'Donoghue [1] - 94:18 67:15, 85:1, 85:3, 85:8 57:25, 60:17, 66:30 opportunity [2] - 7:16, 14:26, 16:13, 16:16, O'Loan [2] - 65:1, 65:6 next [6] - 16:11, 52:28, OK [12] - 64:25, 69:12, 60:22 16:19, 20:30, 25:11, O'Loan's [1] - 67:23 59:10, 88:15, 96:5, 72:24, 77:3, 77:21, oppose [1] - 31:24 31:28, 33:2, 42:29, O'SULLIVAN [1] - 91:4 96:22 77:29, 79:22, 82:6, opposed [2] - 19:12, 51:9, 60:19, 61:9,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 10
71:10, 75:19, 84:15, perjured [1] - 73:2 19:9, 19:13, 20:30, pragmatist [1] - 34:29 47:25, 47:26, 76:10 88:10, 93:13, 93:24 permanent [1] - 55:1 25:27, 26:10, 28:7, praise [1] - 43:27 proffer [1] - 83:17 particularly [5] - 15:7, persisting [1] - 26:13 29:9, 30:1, 30:5, 36:29, prawn [1] - 6:24 proffered [1] - 19:5 27:30, 31:21, 38:20, person [5] - 18:23, 31:6, 36:30, 37:3, 37:5, prawn-cocktail [1] - 6:24 profile [2] - 51:14, 86:28 63:24 39:16, 40:15, 88:17 37:15, 37:18, 38:25, preceding [1] - 17:22 programme [1] - 21:30 partition [1] - 6:27 personal [1] - 45:7 38:27, 39:7, 39:27, precise [4] - 4:5, 17:23, programmes [1] - 25:19 partly [1] - 8:10 personally [5] - 35:11, 40:12, 44:28, 45:2, 30:19, 65:3 prominent [1] - 3:23 parts [2] - 44:12, 80:17 63:12, 68:10, 68:11, 47:26, 49:17, 54:25, precisely [2] - 16:26, promise [1] - 37:23 party [3] - 9:15, 89:25, 89:19 54:26, 58:24, 60:26, 30:24 promotions [1] - 37:1 91:2 persons [2] - 27:7, 48:18 65:20, 69:23, 70:15, predated [1] - 9:19 pronouncements [1] - pass [2] - 59:3, 93:6 persuade [1] - 10:28 73:14, 75:3, 75:5, 76:6, predating [1] - 32:12 94:14 passage [2] - 50:13, persuaded [1] - 68:18 78:18, 95:5, 95:8 prefer [1] - 79:21 propaganda [6] - 45:25, 50:16 persuasion [1] - 37:9 Police [2] - 2:27, 74:4 premature [1] - 2:8 45:29, 46:8, 48:7, 63:10 passages [1] - 50:23 Phoenix [1] - 46:20 policies [1] - 73:18 premises [1] - 60:19 properly [2] - 39:25, passed [2] - 28:9, 59:10 phone [7] - 26:2, 79:5, policing [6] - 3:2, 7:6, prepared [2] - 13:27, 65:22 past [4] - 30:7, 30:25, 92:7, 92:10, 92:12, 7:10, 7:11, 20:23, 20:27 67:27 proportion [1] - 10:23 68:5, 77:24 92:13, 92:21 policy [5] - 17:7, 39:2, presence [1] - 54:29 proposal [3] - 9:5, 9:6, 39:3, 40:13, 73:19 patrol [4] - 7:16, 9:27, phones [1] - 26:1 present [3] - 45:17, 48:8, 9:18 22:3, 23:26 photographer [1] - 7:27 politely [1] - 89:2 85:30 proposition [1] - 69:21 patrolled [3] - 60:16, photographers [1] - 8:1 political [20] - 6:13, 6:23, presented [1] - 40:2 propositioned [2] - 19:9, 8:23, 9:15, 31:25, 60:21 phrase [1] - 32:3 presenting [2] - 49:24, 19:15 patrolling [2] - 9:2, 12:17 physical [6] - 22:25, 24:7, 31:26, 32:9, 34:11, 88:17 propositions [1] - 65:7 34:12, 35:4, 35:26, patrols [3] - 8:1, 60:15, 24:8, 29:1, 32:10, 58:2 press [4] - 3:10, 34:3, prosper [1] - 37:10 36:28, 37:12, 37:15, 60:18 physically [3] - 23:2, 48:3, 84:24 protect [3] - 43:22, 44:19, 38:7, 38:16, 38:23, pattern [2] - 29:21, 51:12 82:25, 83:4 pressure [4] - 21:2, 59:24 40:8, 46:25, 80:14 pause [1] - 8:13 pick [2] - 24:29, 25:2 21:11, 21:21 Protestant [1] - 34:25 politically [5] - 6:6, 35:27, Paxman [1] - 86:2 picked [1] - 69:24 presumably [1] - 56:11 protesters [1] - 82:30 36:26, 36:30, 37:12 pay [2] - 8:1, 66:24 picture [8] - 47:3, 49:24, presume [1] - 17:15 prove [1] - 94:30 politicians [8] - 11:4, paying [1] - 19:13 80:9, 80:17, 80:18, pretty [9] - 13:10, 24:2, proven [2] - 50:12, 70:27 38:29, 47:6, 49:27, payouts [1] - 4:27 86:11, 87:28, 87:29 36:8, 44:13, 48:9, provide [2] - 26:22, 39:10 62:15, 62:24, 73:15, penetrating [1] - 40:25 pictures [1] - 23:4 56:13, 61:23, 66:6, provided [2] - 7:15, 76:21 73:18 people [61] - 4:28, 6:16, piece [8] - 13:27, 15:30, 69:22 providing [2] - 21:3, politics [2] - 38:12, 38:17 7:2, 8:24, 9:9, 9:10, 71:21, 72:24, 85:24, prevailed [1] - 80:15 64:26 popular [1] - 25:17 9:14, 11:5, 14:17, 85:25, 86:18 prevent [3] - 12:22, provision [1] - 60:30 position [8] - 7:28, 22:10, 15:22, 16:29, 18:3, pieces [7] - 25:23, 51:1, 37:16, 55:23 Provisional [1] - 4:30 34:14, 55:23, 61:4, 18:9, 22:22, 24:2, 70:6, 71:16, 71:29, prevented [3] - 25:24, provisionals [1] - 83:7 61:8, 73:7, 73:30 24:16, 24:17, 26:5, 86:22, 86:27 43:9, 65:24 Provos [1] - 6:25 possess [1] - 88:23 26:28, 27:5, 28:30, pivotal [1] - 74:10 previous [1] - 51:4 proximity [2] - 60:24, possession [2] - 72:21, 29:25, 29:29, 30:1, place [10] - 4:3, 12:22, previously [2] - 3:12, 61:11 72:22 30:22, 31:7, 31:21, 16:26, 23:21, 26:12, 52:17 proxy [1] - 59:28 possibility [6] - 19:11, 31:22, 31:29, 32:8, 31:2, 40:1, 56:3, 82:29, primarily [1] - 11:24 public [13] - 34:11, 35:4, 27:3, 33:29, 34:4, 32:25, 35:20, 35:28, 84:23 Prime [4] - 8:20, 39:11, 47:4, 52:21, 52:27, 45:29, 96:19 39:13, 40:17, 43:20, places [6] - 4:23, 6:18, 40:2, 41:4 53:9, 68:21, 73:20, possible [15] - 4:13, 44:15, 44:23, 45:12, 11:12, 12:16, 26:14, principal [1] - 15:4 94:13, 94:14, 96:16, 13:26, 45:18, 46:1, 47:15, 47:21, 48:25, 81:16 printed [1] - 46:2 96:20 47:24, 47:27, 48:8, 49:18, 51:13, 57:27, plan [2] - 25:25, 84:21 printing [1] - 65:25 publicly [3] - 6:7, 34:30, 60:22, 62:15, 62:17, 49:20, 49:25, 52:27, plant [1] - 55:8 PRIVATE [1] - 96:26 41:10 62:22, 63:1, 66:13, 53:8, 68:19, 86:30, planted [1] - 60:9 private [6] - 2:7, 52:22, publish [2] - 52:27, 67:5 69:9, 78:16, 79:30, 88:22, 88:23 plate [1] - 58:8 52:25, 53:4, 53:12, published [9] - 46:2, 80:5, 81:17, 86:5, possibly [1] - 66:12 plates [2] - 58:4, 58:5 96:24 63:29, 64:2, 65:14, 89:24, 93:30 post [10] - 29:14, 30:5, play [1] - 21:5 privately [1] - 35:6 65:15, 69:22, 69:24, percent [4] - 28:6, 43:4, 54:21, 54:26, 55:5, pleas [2] - 11:5, 32:7 privy [1] - 71:15 81:29, 84:24 95:7, 95:11 59:19, 59:25, 60:26, pleasantries [1] - 19:2 probe [1] - 71:10 pulled [3] - 40:1, 40:16, perception [4] - 8:27, 64:17 pleased [1] - 47:1 problem [1] - 17:9 67:6 10:4, 11:28, 47:4 postdate [1] - 32:11 point [22] - 13:11, 17:12, problems [4] - 15:25, punch [1] - 65:18 perfect [5] - 44:5, 44:6, posters [1] - 83:10 17:14, 18:8, 21:12, 34:19, 40:27 punters [1] - 4:29 45:6, 56:15, 56:16 posts [4] - 9:7, 21:14, 25:9, 29:2, 31:21, procedures [1] - 52:6 purely [1] - 40:8 performed [1] - 94:14 22:1, 60:7 31:28, 33:2, 33:19, proceed [1] - 90:11 purpose [2] - 21:10, perhaps [4] - 3:24, 22:23, postulating [1] - 27:6 36:17, 45:14, 47:11, proceedings [1] - 52:1 25:30 55:30, 59:13 power [5] - 5:17, 8:25, 55:4, 58:30, 72:6, proceeds [1] - 4:23 purposes [2] - 13:20, peril [1] - 62:18 37:11, 37:22, 61:7 77:18, 88:10, 89:17, process [2] - 41:26, 43:1 69:25 period [12] - 8:15, 9:21, powered [3] - 23:1, 92:18, 95:4 processed [3] - 38:20, pursuing [1] - 2:7 10:16, 17:18, 17:21, 25:24, 38:24 pointed [4] - 3:29, 4:12, 38:21, 38:23 put [15] - 4:22, 22:24, 17:27, 26:6, 31:2, powerful [1] - 70:28 5:20, 77:11 procuring [1] - 25:29 33:22, 42:8, 46:5, 47:9, 63:20, 80:5, 80:15, PR [2] - 8:5, 8:6 points [1] - 43:3 produce [1] - 88:15 48:5, 52:20, 56:1, 58:6, 84:28 practice [2] - 37:4, 66:20 police [50] - 2:25, 7:19, profession [1] - 51:13 65:7, 66:16, 80:5, periodically [3] - 19:22, pragmatic [1] - 35:27 9:14, 11:25, 11:27, professional [4] - 45:16, 83:10, 89:2 31:15, 31:16 pragmatism [1] - 35:4 12:4, 12:26, 15:3, 18:5, putting [4] - 4:29, 21:2,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 11
47:7, 71:16 76:13, 85:16, 86:23, relentless [1] - 6:8 response [6] - 65:6, 14:27, 15:7, 16:14, pyramid [2] - 39:7, 39:26 96:18 relevant [1] - 59:4 65:12, 67:22, 77:4, 17:2, 17:7, 18:11, reasons [7] - 34:11, reliability [2] - 68:4, 77:17, 93:18 19:26, 27:8, 27:20, Q 34:12, 35:27, 44:24, 68:22 responsibility [4] - 12:17, 31:12, 33:25, 34:12, 45:20, 46:8, 82:19 reliable [1] - 65:10 58:22, 58:26, 62:30 34:23, 37:27, 38:22, qualifications [2] - 22:20, reassurance [1] - 35:29 relied [1] - 71:17 responsible [1] - 59:10 44:8, 45:5, 45:21, 23:30 reassuring [1] - 34:30 relies [1] - 70:5 rest [1] - 60:4 46:27, 47:11, 47:22, Queens [1] - 51:16 received [2] - 6:5, 40:20 reluctant [2] - 43:26, restroom [1] - 78:26 54:28, 57:17, 62:13, question-marks [1] - receives [1] - 64:25 72:23 result [3] - 67:6, 69:19, 64:22, 64:23, 65:11, 68:3 receiving [2] - 5:24, 5:25 remain [1] - 14:22 91:20 68:15, 72:10, 72:11, questions [7] - 41:17, recently [2] - 42:1, 65:27 remained [1] - 24:16 resulted [3] - 33:14, 72:15, 73:10, 73:24, 77:9, 84:6, 88:15, 91:2, recognised [4] - 30:8, remains [1] - 80:18 69:28, 69:29 76:19, 76:28, 79:2, 91:4, 91:6 30:10, 34:29, 85:14 remedy [3] - 68:26, 68:27, resulting [1] - 7:4 80:26, 80:28, 81:5, quick [2] - 33:23 recollect [1] - 16:27 68:29 resume [1] - 51:23 81:13, 81:23, 81:25, quickly [2] - 37:23, 59:7 82:30, 86:16, 87:21, recollection [5] - 28:12, remember [26] - 4:5, 5:2, RESUMED [1] - 1:1 quite [24] - 4:6, 4:26, 5:5, 92:19, 93:22, 94:7, 56:12, 79:4, 87:30, 90:1 5:10, 7:14, 17:25, resumes [1] - 54:6 25:1, 25:3, 28:20, 94:13, 94:17 record [3] - 91:16, 92:5, 18:21, 18:28, 20:19, retaliation [2] - 35:2, 29:15, 35:6, 35:22, 96:6 27:22, 27:27, 27:29, 36:16 rule [3] - 44:22, 59:13, 37:19, 40:29, 44:27, 73:2 recorders [1] - 25:17 27:30, 28:17, 29:15, retired [6] - 42:1, 65:27, 45:15, 45:20, 60:7, ruled [1] - 34:4 recounted [1] - 75:15 30:2, 35:13, 44:29, 71:22, 71:25, 84:5, 84:7 60:17, 67:9, 74:10, rumour [7] - 50:1, 71:19, recruit [2] - 93:19, 93:23 48:20, 51:16, 65:1, retirement [1] - 81:8 80:3, 81:23, 82:18, 79:28, 90:9, 90:10, refer [1] - 23:23 65:3, 67:25, 78:29, retrospectively [1] - 47:7 86:13, 86:30 90:16 reference [1] - 27:2 87:19, 88:5 return [2] - 2:10, 95:3 quo [1] - 37:24 rumours [20] - 26:19, referred [5] - 26:10, 29:3, remembered [3] - 20:4, returned [1] - 5:4 35:7, 71:14, 79:29, 57:26, 58:28, 65:5 79:8, 79:16 revealed [1] - 42:30 80:5, 80:8, 86:23, 87:3, R refers [1] - 27:2 remembering [1] - 16:19 rigorous [2] - 11:19, 50:4 [1] 88:3, 88:12, 89:12, racketeering [2] - 5:1, reflected [2] - 15:24, 88:3 Remembrance - 49:7 rigours [1] - 6:20 89:15, 89:26, 89:30, 5:12 reflecting [2] - 47:18, remind [1] - 65:4 ring [1] - 19:8 90:3, 90:4, 90:5, 90:7, 68:24 remit [1] - 39:10 rise [4] - 52:15, 69:28, radio [9] - 7:22, 7:23, 93:29, 94:10 7:25, 10:2, 23:11, reflection [3] - 95:6, remote [2] - 23:12, 25:26 94:16, 94:22 run [2] - 6:17, 40:30 23:14, 25:2, 25:29, 95:15, 95:20 rendered [1] - 59:30 rivalries [3] - 45:7, 45:11 run-up [1] - 40:30 55:28 refuge [1] - 62:7 repeat [1] - 88:10 Road [3] - 22:29, 22:30, rural [1] - 62:17 radios [2] - 25:9, 57:1 regard [5] - 20:25, 26:29, repeated [2] - 6:13, 6:30 30:5 Ryder [26] - 1:9, 2:9, 2:15, raging [1] - 33:7 27:10, 68:13, 70:3 replace [1] - 93:1 road [20] - 27:24, 28:29, 2:30, 13:26, 17:6, railway [3] - 4:6, 22:30, regarded [6] - 5:22, reply [1] - 67:28 29:13, 29:16, 30:6, 36:24, 38:18, 41:16, 59:27 11:23, 35:30, 37:8, Report [1] - 70:1 30:7, 30:13, 30:25, 54:16, 63:18, 69:1, 37:25, 74:15 report [4] - 28:16, 34:7, 54:30, 55:16, 55:20, raise [1] - 88:27 76:24, 77:11, 77:12, regarding [1] - 89:4 40:7, 42:12 55:24, 56:7, 56:9, raising [1] - 68:22 80:21, 83:23, 87:2, regards [1] - 85:24 reported [2] - 39:24, 56:10, 56:14, 58:6, rarely [1] - 15:27 87:14, 88:9, 90:25, regular [8] - 16:17, 17:3, 85:20 60:3, 60:10 rate [1] - 18:7 91:10, 91:11, 96:6, 19:28, 29:12, 55:19, reporting [4] - 26:24, roadside [1] - 58:3 rather [9] - 4:28, 13:22, 96:13 61:13, 86:24 63:1, 63:2, 66:9 robbery [1] - 29:8 43:13, 48:6, 52:11, ryder [5] - 68:3, 78:10, regularly [5] - 11:3, 55:2, reports [3] - 40:19, 42:3, Robert [1] - 51:18 59:19, 61:7, 63:4, 95:6 84:5, 86:4, 88:17 59:25, 62:23, 78:16 68:11 role [1] - 64:15 RE [1] - 91:8 RYDER [2] - 2:1, 54:3 rehearsed [1] - 70:17 representations [5] - rolled [1] - 30:11 RE-EXAMINED [1] - 91:8 Ryder's [3] - 2:5, 54:10, reinforcing [1] - 33:14 12:25, 31:19, 31:30, Romeo [3] - 22:28, 23:27, reached [1] - 33:25 96:7 reaction [1] - 34:24 relate [1] - 2:5 32:1, 53:3 57:26 representatives [1] - 4:24 read [13] - 26:27, 50:2, relates [1] - 65:16 Ronnie [12] - 64:30, 65:6, S 58:4, 58:5, 64:5, 65:16, relating [3] - 43:14, 86:6, Republic [6] - 4:1, 10:27, 65:11, 65:18, 66:12, 67:22, 69:12, 80:22, 86:19 36:16, 93:30, 94:2 67:7, 67:26, 68:13, safe [1] - 24:16 82:2, 93:10, 93:11, relation [30] - 2:9, 3:13, Republican [1] - 78:17 68:15, 68:21, 68:27, safety [1] - 60:28 94:21 3:18, 6:5, 20:20, 20:21, republicans [1] - 4:19 68:28 sake [1] - 36:20 readily [1] - 85:14 20:24, 22:8, 27:15, required [2] - 2:11, 15:15 Ronnie's [2] - 67:22, salmon [1] - 6:25 real [5] - 6:15, 8:4, 36:6, 28:26, 31:14, 32:1, research [3] - 88:14, 68:17 sat [2] - 18:20, 34:3 36:7, 40:11 33:6, 33:28, 36:21, 89:1, 90:15 room [2] - 24:7, 24:10 satisfied [1] - 66:18 reality [1] - 6:8 46:3, 47:30, 49:26, residence [1] - 4:3 rooms [4] - 23:5, 23:26, Saturday [1] - 28:16 really [16] - 5:28, 7:2, 50:6, 52:18, 53:1, 57:1, residue [1] - 33:4 24:5, 24:13 saved [2] - 43:9, 76:30 60:29, 61:17, 63:12, 7:26, 8:11, 10:12, resist [1] - 49:19 roots [1] - 94:30 saw [6] - 3:11, 7:14, 17:23, 18:25, 58:30, 71:14, 92:23, 94:23, resisted [1] - 21:21 rotten [1] - 29:28 22:22, 76:14, 87:28 96:8, 96:13 59:5, 63:4, 71:4, 80:17, resolving [1] - 20:28 round [1] - 65:19 scanners [4] - 25:5, 25:8, 84:17, 87:12, 88:30, relations [2] - 34:26, resources [3] - 10:4, route [2] - 60:23, 60:25 57:4, 57:14 94:13 94:5 10:7, 88:29 routed [1] - 26:8 scene [5] - 27:26, 27:27, realtime [1] - 59:3 Relations [1] - 2:28 respect [13] - 14:12, routes [2] - 33:1, 60:9 28:2, 29:3, 87:21 relationship [2] - 15:2, reason [18] - 16:19, 26:4, 45:22, 52:14, 75:13, Royal [1] - 76:22 scene-of-crime [1] - 29:3 76:10 30:23, 46:10, 50:14, 77:4, 77:17, 78:25, RUC [64] - 3:8, 8:11, 8:14, scenes [1] - 82:10 relationships [1] - 14:20 52:21, 64:28, 68:16, 79:27, 80:22, 82:2, 10:10, 11:17, 12:11, scheduled [1] - 1:8 relatively [1] - 57:6 69:9, 72:8, 75:17, 82:3, 87:14, 96:23 12:12, 13:7, 13:8, scheme [1] - 5:3 75:29, 76:2, 76:12, relatives [1] - 11:5 respecting [1] - 19:26 13:11, 14:16, 14:19,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 12
Scotland [4] - 3:20, 4:10, settling [1] - 34:20 93:11 93:23, 94:1, 94:3, 94:4, statement [19] - 10:18, 6:1, 94:1 seven [6] - 25:20, 48:28, slight [1] - 20:20 94:8 16:9, 23:23, 34:16, scrambling [1] - 82:29 84:8, 84:9, 86:25 slightly [4] - 8:25, 33:24, South [8] - 9:26, 22:7, 36:2, 36:25, 37:30, screened [1] - 60:8 seventies [7] - 6:2, 8:17, 69:8, 69:11 32:19, 62:4, 62:21, 48:30, 67:25, 67:27, scrutiny [2] - 44:21, 63:7 17:26, 29:14, 32:21, slippages [1] - 43:14 62:22, 62:24, 73:19 68:21, 68:29, 77:3, second [3] - 2:10, 71:21, 56:26, 57:2 slow [1] - 58:6 south [14] - 15:2, 26:16, 80:22, 91:20, 91:25, 96:10 several [1] - 37:21 small [2] - 30:21, 54:26 46:26, 46:28, 48:28, 91:26, 94:15, 96:14 secrecy [2] - 41:12, 41:13 share [2] - 7:25, 42:14 smoked [1] - 6:25 51:3, 55:15, 60:3, 61:5, statements [4] - 47:5, secret [2] - 42:25, 44:20 sharing [1] - 42:7 smoked-salmon [1] - 61:13, 61:28, 73:15, 48:4, 49:28, 69:28 Secretary [2] - 38:30, Sheepbridge [1] - 30:12 6:25 93:23 States [1] - 21:24 39:12 shock [1] - 76:3 smuggling [1] - 9:9 southern [12] - 7:3, 7:7, states [2] - 69:17, 78:25 security [30] - 3:3, 8:23, Shogun [1] - 48:13 snap [1] - 55:2 7:11, 10:5, 10:16, stating [3] - 72:30, 75:11, 9:2, 9:23, 10:13, 10:20, shoot [2] - 47:9, 51:17 social [2] - 20:17, 81:6 20:27, 21:5, 32:8, 78:3 11:17, 12:27, 19:27, shooting [2] - 29:15, socialists [1] - 6:25 32:30, 54:27, 62:5, station [6] - 4:6, 26:23, 21:24, 31:5, 32:22, 87:19 socially [2] - 83:14, 93:4 80:13 28:5, 54:26, 70:15 33:6, 33:30, 35:16, shops [1] - 25:6 soldier [1] - 7:28 speaking [1] - 94:12 Station [9] - 15:8, 34:1, 38:9, 39:8, 39:19, short [3] - 7:20, 55:26, soldiers [1] - 23:29 special [1] - 11:23 36:4, 49:26, 70:8, 39:23, 39:28, 40:21, 91:6 solicitor [4] - 80:21, Special [10] - 18:11, 30:8, 70:23, 71:18, 72:14, 41:1, 49:23, 62:26, shortly [2] - 27:1, 87:4 83:21, 83:22, 96:15 42:6, 42:13, 43:21, 92:8 73:19, 80:11, 80:14, shouted [1] - 30:11 solid [1] - 46:13 44:14, 74:4, 74:11, stations [3] - 12:6, 14:26, 78:18, 94:7 80:25, 93:28 show [1] - 7:17 someone [6] - 30:24, 25:27 Security [2] - 38:30, showed [2] - 5:5, 7:25 39:18, 45:20, 78:17, specialist [2] - 23:29, status [1] - 37:24 25:6 93:29 shrewd [1] - 74:15 78:21, 85:28 stay [1] - 60:1 specific [14] - 15:20, see [11] - 28:5, 43:10, side [40] - 5:13, 7:3, 7:7, sometime [4] - 56:1, stayed [3] - 2:22, 61:30, 46:7, 46:8, 48:15, 7:11, 7:17, 8:8, 8:27, 74:18, 74:19, 91:18 16:8, 40:20, 40:29, 77:27 43:14, 62:29, 71:14, 55:17, 59:11, 72:10, 8:28, 9:14, 9:24, 10:5, sometimes [11] - 12:15, stealing [1] - 10:29 78:7, 84:26, 87:10 10:11, 10:16, 11:4, 13:2, 15:16, 15:17, 86:16, 87:14, 87:16, steer [1] - 46:12 seeing [4] - 24:18, 42:25, 11:28, 15:16, 20:28, 15:29, 28:6, 56:4, 69:9, 88:27, 90:22, 94:22 steered [1] - 68:15 43:6, 43:8 21:5, 21:8, 21:11, 73:21, 81:16, 95:13 specifically [10] - 7:6, step [1] - 20:20 seeking [1] - 77:6 21:16, 21:20, 28:29, somewhat [1] - 22:10 35:14, 36:20, 51:15, stick [1] - 49:16 82:13, 85:18, 88:1, seem [1] - 6:22 30:6, 32:9, 32:30, son [1] - 51:29 sticks [1] - 18:29 88:7, 88:9, 94:9 sell [1] - 67:17 45:26, 46:14, 46:30, soon [1] - 52:25 still [11] - 17:8, 24:23, specificity [2] - 14:13, send [2] - 35:28, 35:29 49:22, 49:28, 54:27, sophisticated [7] - 5:16, 33:7, 33:16, 37:4, senior [15] - 12:14, 13:8, 56:9, 56:10, 60:10, 25:8, 25:16, 56:26, 40:19 43:28, 52:1, 56:28, 13:13, 17:2, 18:10, 63:4, 63:5, 80:10, 80:13 57:4, 75:13, 75:14 speculate [2] - 89:10, 78:7, 78:8, 84:10 94:5 37:3, 37:6, 37:8, 40:2, sides [4] - 8:9, 9:4, 10:14, sore [3] - 31:21, 31:28, stop [2] - 10:29, 11:7 51:11, 74:3, 74:11, 80:24 33:2 speculation [4] - 26:19, stopped [1] - 7:21 33:28, 34:3, 76:18 78:17, 87:21, 94:1 sieve [2] - 31:10, 32:2 sorry [7] - 1:4, 8:13, store [1] - 4:7 sensitive [7] - 13:6, signals [4] - 23:14, 23:20, 13:14, 17:28, 52:3, spelled [1] - 15:27 stories [10] - 19:4, 19:10, 15:26, 22:15, 24:17, 24:1, 24:29 54:29, 74:19 spend [1] - 75:29 26:13, 26:21, 64:26, spent [1] - 2:20 24:24, 26:14, 40:23 significance [3] - 18:29, sort [42] - 5:20, 7:30, 8:3, 66:8, 66:22, 74:28, sensitivity [3] - 15:15, 79:24, 79:25 12:3, 17:27, 19:2, 19:5, sphere [1] - 11:21 76:3, 76:7 26:3, 52:23 significant [5] - 29:6, 19:27, 20:6, 23:21, spinning [1] - 4:26 Stormont [2] - 39:21, sent [1] - 34:5 49:9, 71:30, 82:18, 24:9, 24:12, 24:15, sponsored [1] - 21:23 39:22 sentences [1] - 65:16 82:22 25:3, 25:8, 25:15, spot [1] - 29:7 story [18] - 5:7, 20:23, sentiment [1] - 36:25 Simon [1] - 86:2 29:25, 30:10, 31:13, spots [1] - 56:12 21:10, 43:11, 46:5, sentries [1] - 24:8 simply [1] - 75:15 33:23, 35:16, 35:30, sprung [1] - 95:6 63:4, 65:14, 65:25, sentry [1] - 59:28 Siochana [21] - 8:14, 37:2, 38:10, 40:26, spurious [1] - 92:16 65:29, 66:25, 66:27, September [1] - 72:10 10:2, 11:16, 12:11, 41:7, 46:25, 49:30, spying [1] - 75:26 66:30, 67:3, 67:5, sequence [1] - 28:19 15:9, 18:13, 34:2, 50:21, 61:15, 63:7, squeeze [1] - 9:3 67:17, 89:29, 92:13, Sergeant [2] - 79:6, 84:5 35:18, 36:27, 41:22, 74:13, 78:24, 81:9, staff [1] - 39:9 93:5 series [2] - 9:5, 70:16 42:18, 72:11, 73:10, 81:20, 84:28, 88:2, Staff [1] - 17:12 straight [2] - 12:6, 32:27 serious [6] - 9:5, 11:8, 73:23, 79:3, 80:29, 93:2, 93:5, 94:10, stage [10] - 3:24, 18:18, strange [3] - 75:27, 75:28 43:29, 58:22, 68:3, 81:5, 81:13, 82:24, 94:29, 95:22 28:19, 30:4, 58:3, strategic [1] - 40:21 68:22 93:24, 94:8 sorts [8] - 6:16, 9:2, 23:7, 59:26, 66:7, 75:3, 76:1, stress [1] - 43:2 seriously [2] - 68:24, sit [3] - 43:19, 53:13, 42:19, 45:8, 64:14, 96:16 stretch [8] - 27:24, 29:13, 94:30 53:14 71:2, 94:9 stages [1] - 51:8 29:16, 31:3, 54:18, served [1] - 2:26 sitting [3] - 59:1, 77:12, sought [1] - 68:14 stand [4] - 63:8, 95:7, 55:3, 56:14, 59:20 Service [1] - 93:30 96:24 soul [1] - 78:15 95:15, 95:21 Strike [2] - 32:16, 32:20 services [4] - 39:8, 39:19, situation [8] - 10:20, sound [2] - 23:17, 94:20 standing [1] - 7:28 strike [2] - 11:10, 94:19 39:29, 93:28 26:28, 31:13, 38:12, source [10] - 3:20, 4:18, start [2] - 1:5, 83:30 strong [5] - 11:28, 26:4, serving [1] - 85:28 48:1, 49:26, 83:29, 86:9 27:9, 27:13, 30:30, started [3] - 50:1, 79:28, 35:27, 53:2, 56:19 SESSION [1] - 96:26 situations [2] - 34:30, 43:22, 43:23, 76:21, 79:30 stuck [3] - 19:15, 19:20, set [6] - 25:18, 26:20, 35:5 78:23, 93:20 starting [1] - 52:6 79:15 48:27, 49:5, 60:10, six [4] - 56:4, 84:8, 84:9, sourced [1] - 10:26 startling [1] - 18:29 stuff [2] - 9:9, 94:11 77:13 86:24 sources [13] - 3:21, 9:15, State [1] - 38:30 subject [3] - 16:10, 84:15, sets [3] - 11:22, 42:13, skill [1] - 45:16 20:26, 21:7, 44:19, state [3] - 62:7, 74:26, 86:17 57:9 skimmed [2] - 69:13, 45:21, 62:12, 66:19, 96:5 subjected [2] - 50:4, 63:6
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 13 subjects [1] - 37:15 46:4, 46:18, 58:9, 59:6 there'd [1] - 75:7 30:27 3:4, 8:9, 11:22, 11:27, submarine [1] - 24:14 systemic [1] - 43:1 There'll [1] - 19:6 travelled [2] - 51:3, 94:2 12:25, 12:26, 17:4, suborned [2] - 26:4, 26:5 thereafter [2] - 87:4, 87:5 travelling [2] - 28:28, 18:3, 18:9, 22:25, subsequently [5] - 5:22, T therefore [2] - 15:2, 53:11 51:30 26:19, 29:2, 31:15, 30:26, 49:3, 49:4, 74:26 thinking [1] - 66:25 treason' [1] - 83:11 32:17, 34:26, 38:20, taboo [1] - 24:21 substance [6] - 40:11, thinks [2] - 32:15, 63:2 treated [1] - 15:15 48:18, 49:18, 51:23, tacit [1] - 31:26 87:23, 88:12, 90:10, third [2] - 65:18, 66:9 trends [1] - 40:25 51:28, 51:30, 53:14, tactical [1] - 58:26 90:16, 90:27 third-hand [1] - 66:9 trials [1] - 25:22 54:30, 60:12, 65:16, talkies [3] - 25:2, 57:1, such-and-such [2] - 13:1, thread [1] - 26:20 tribunal [1] - 86:26 70:5, 71:16, 71:29, 57:9 20:1 threat [1] - 62:19 TRIBUNAL [4] - 1:1, 73:28, 74:22, 74:23, TAOR [1] - 58:27 77:9, 84:13, 85:19, suffering [1] - 61:25 three [7] - 7:18, 34:26, 53:16, 54:1, 96:26 TAORs [1] - 58:26 suggest [3] - 85:8, 85:12, 42:14, 77:9, 77:24, Tribunal [42] - 2:6, 3:11, 86:16, 87:15, 87:16, 86:4 tap [2] - 26:1, 26:6 87:4, 91:27 12:3, 17:7, 22:8, 22:17, 87:21, 88:9, 89:20, tape [5] - 27:23, 27:26, 90:28, 90:29, 96:5 suggested [2] - 82:11, throw [2] - 47:24, 47:27 26:24, 26:30, 29:5, 27:27, 28:13, 29:3 type [2] - 58:8, 58:14 92:7 tighten [1] - 10:29 46:15, 47:8, 50:15, targeted [6] - 26:20, typed [1] - 58:16 suggesting [6] - 70:28, tightrope [1] - 36:18 50:29, 52:9, 55:14, 30:23, 50:14, 50:23, typical [1] - 27:20 71:30, 72:13, 87:2, tilted [1] - 4:27 58:13, 69:16, 69:28, 51:15, 92:17 87:23, 90:25 timer [2] - 5:17, 25:20 70:4, 70:17, 71:5, task [1] - 62:29 suggestion [3] - 46:18, timers [2] - 25:14 71:13, 72:9, 72:18, U taxi [1] - 4:22 80:1, 89:19 tip [3] - 69:19, 71:23, 72:19, 72:24, 75:18, tease [2] - 73:6, 90:21 UDR [1] - 11:1 suggestions [1] - 26:15 72:26 79:19, 79:22, 83:17, teased [1] - 69:25 Ulster [2] - 32:20, 76:22 suited [1] - 5:14 tip-off [3] - 69:19, 71:23, 83:18, 84:16, 86:17, tec [1] - 22:3 ultimately [3] - 21:19, sum [1] - 66:24 72:26 86:19, 87:9, 88:20, technical [12] - 22:20, 21:20, 39:4 summaries [1] - 39:11 tipped [1] - 70:13 89:8, 91:13, 91:16, 23:22, 25:11, 56:25, 91:28, 94:15, 95:29 unable [2] - 16:26, 60:21 summer [2] - 29:18, TO [1] - 54:3 unarmed [1] - 10:9 57:23, 70:7, 70:21, Tribunal's [1] - 3:14 65:20 Toby [8] - 69:4, 69:24, 71:17, 72:12, 92:6, uncover [1] - 11:14 Sunday [10] - 2:20, 5:7, 70:5, 71:17, 72:17, tribunals [1] - 86:26 92:11, 92:20 uncovered [2] - 43:29, 5:27, 19:12, 49:7, 72:25, 72:28, 72:29 trick [1] - 65:5 technically [1] - 23:10 43:30 65:21, 66:5, 67:3, 67:5, today [4] - 1:8, 2:9, 45:3, tried [3] - 32:25, 45:30, technicians [2] - 46:16, under [6] - 21:11, 53:12, 85:5 87:15 93:19 46:17 55:6, 59:26, 62:18, Sunningdale [1] - 32:16 together [9] - 18:23, tripods [1] - 23:1 Telecom [1] - 26:5 96:11 Sunny [1] - 48:24 29:20, 38:28, 40:1, trouble [2] - 15:6, 61:29 Telegraph [9] - 2:22, Under [3] - 3:7, 26:11, Superintendent [7] - 40:16, 71:29, 73:29, Troubles [8] - 3:25, 69:1, 69:4, 69:5, 85:6, 81:29 17:11, 17:29, 65:28, 76:14, 93:6 10:17, 63:23, 63:30, 85:18, 85:21, 92:29, understood [5] - 5:25, 69:18, 82:4 toilet [3] - 74:27, 78:26, 74:12, 79:29, 80:15, 93:1 20:26, 21:1, 23:17, 25:5 superintendents [2] - 78:27 85:29 telephone [8] - 26:12, unfortunately [2] - 17:12, 33:19, 33:21 tolerate [1] - 8:30 trucker [1] - 57:7 26:21, 33:22, 46:3, 74:5 supply [3] - 10:25, 25:22, toll [1] - 61:25 true [10] - 38:1, 46:22, 46:4, 46:16, 57:3, 87:21 unfounded [1] - 80:8 62:7 tomorrow [3] - 52:5, 52:8, 52:30, 63:11, 72:2, telephoned [1] - 70:16 unhealthy [2] - 37:13, support [1] - 68:30 52:11 72:5, 72:6, 72:9, 78:6, televisions [1] - 23:4 80:8 37:14 suppose [9] - 45:10, took [9] - 8:20, 16:26, temptation [1] - 49:19 Unionist/Loyalist [1] - 45:11, 47:11, 48:3, 17:16, 31:2, 49:30, trundled [1] - 59:26 ten [2] - 2:24, 25:21 34:28 69:27, 78:3, 79:11, 50:1, 79:28, 82:29, trust [6] - 11:27, 12:29, Unionists [1] - 37:18 79:22, 94:13 tend [2] - 37:10, 94:11 84:23 13:3, 13:5, 14:21, 80:29 tended [2] - 38:9, 49:27 United [1] - 21:24 supreme [1] - 34:29 top [4] - 22:26, 39:6, trusted [1] - 11:29 units [2] - 5:17, 58:27 surface [1] - 73:1 term [1] - 22:17 39:26, 59:6 trustworthiness [1] - terms [11] - 7:9, 7:11, unity [1] - 34:12 surfaced [1] - 64:14 total [2] - 47:19, 48:25 20:8 12:28, 13:3, 14:14, University [1] - 51:17 surprise [1] - 83:9 totally [2] - 46:23, 79:9 trustworthy [2] - 19:26, 19:25, 54:28, 76:10, unless [2] - 68:10, 68:29 surprised [2] - 36:8, touch [1] - 53:4 65:10 81:26, 86:19 unlike [1] - 79:22 36:26 touting [1] - 66:8 truth [6] - 35:7, 48:5, terribly [1] - 33:20 50:5, 50:8, 70:26, 90:7 Unsung [1] - 64:6 surveillance [8] - 22:6, towards [4] - 30:13, 51:3, terrorism [1] - 45:27 untrue [2] - 78:20, 90:23 22:24, 22:25, 39:30, 60:4, 80:27 truthful [1] - 77:28 Tesco [1] - 4:7 unusual [8] - 55:17, 55:6, 55:19, 56:13, 58:2 tower [2] - 56:11, 57:25 try [13] - 10:28, 15:14, test [2] - 68:8, 89:29 20:22, 21:9, 21:16, 74:30, 75:2, 75:5, 75:6, suspect [3] - 14:7, 58:11, towers [9] - 9:30, 22:1, 75:21, 86:17, 86:21 76:2 testimony [1] - 68:6 22:4, 22:9, 22:12, 21:24, 32:8, 32:24, up [44] - 4:3, 6:11, 10:29, suspected [1] - 56:3 tests [1] - 50:5 22:16, 24:5, 55:7, 57:21 43:5, 45:17, 47:23, THE [10] - 1:1, 41:19, 47:27, 62:9 15:18, 17:19, 17:24, suspects' [1] - 57:15 town [2] - 4:8, 4:9 53:16, 54:1, 63:15, trying [13] - 15:30, 20:2, 19:4, 19:28, 20:6, suspicion [5] - 31:4, traction [1] - 80:1 83:25, 91:8, 96:2, 96:26 28:15, 28:18, 46:12, 20:22, 20:23, 20:30, 31:9, 67:29, 80:19, traffic [2] - 57:17, 57:18 21:24, 24:29, 25:2, 90:14 themselves [4] - 12:12, 62:11, 65:5, 66:21, trail [1] - 10:22 26:20, 28:30, 30:13, suspicions [1] - 29:25 42:15, 48:8, 50:19 67:17, 69:15, 71:10, training [2] - 21:3, 62:8 30:24, 30:29, 33:1, suspicious [2] - 15:12, THEN [2] - 96:2, 96:26 88:20, 93:23 transacting [1] - 76:1 33:13, 35:1, 39:9, 59:14 theoretical [1] - 63:11 Tuesday [2] - 34:1, 34:16 transaction [1] - 66:6 40:30, 41:29, 43:22, sweep [1] - 55:16 theories [7] - 26:25, tunnelled [1] - 94:30 transcripts [1] - 53:6 47:10, 56:4, 59:6, SWORN [1] - 2:1 70:16, 70:20, 71:3, turn [3] - 7:6, 50:8, 78:9 transfer [1] - 76:11 60:10, 60:11, 65:23, system [14] - 37:28, 42:6, 71:7, 71:14, 92:16 turned [2] - 49:29, 78:7 transparent [1] - 35:23 68:9, 69:25, 78:9, 42:21, 43:3, 44:5, 44:6, theory [4] - 26:26, 27:2, twelve [1] - 52:10 travel [3] - 30:16, 30:20, 81:13, 83:10, 85:30, 44:26, 44:27, 45:6, 27:6, 70:21 two [46] - 1:8, 2:5, 2:9,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 8 December 2011 - Day 63 14
91:11, 91:21, 96:4, 20:4, 27:22, 27:27, 30:2 wife [2] - 27:28, 83:13 88:4, 89:24 96:17, 96:20 voiced [2] - 29:25, 90:14 willing [1] - 88:25 young [1] - 48:19 upcoming [1] - 40:27 volatile [1] - 36:18 willingness [2] - 32:9, youngest [1] - 51:29 upwards [1] - 58:28 volunteer [1] - 75:22 32:10 yourself [7] - 41:28, usual [1] - 81:12 volunteering [1] - 47:16 window [2] - 22:4, 30:11 67:19, 83:17, 88:17, utterly [1] - 19:12 vulnerable [2] - 59:23, wire [2] - 55:25, 55:28 89:21, 89:23, 91:18 59:30 wish [1] - 51:20 V withdrawn [1] - 5:29 £ W WITHDREW [1] - 96:2 vaguely [1] - 3:22 £50,000 [3] - 65:26, 66:3, withhold [1] - 15:13 VALENTINE [13] - 1:7, waiting [1] - 73:4 66:24 witness [6] - 1:10, 83:17, 2:2, 2:4, 2:15, 14:11, [2] walk - 36:18, 75:2 94:19, 96:5, 96:22 41:16, 51:25, 54:6, walkie [3] - 25:2, 57:1, WITNESS [5] - 41:19, 83:29, 91:6, 91:8, 57:9 63:15, 83:25, 91:8, 96:2 91:10, 96:4 walkie-talkies [3] - 25:2, witness-box [1] - 1:10 Valentine [1] - 82:6 57:1, 57:9 witnesses [4] - 1:8, 1:9, valuable [2] - 76:21, Wallace [1] - 12:8 17:9, 76:8 76:22 wants [1] - 13:23 wonder [4] - 2:17, 5:30, varied [3] - 8:19, 11:26, war [1] - 45:27 7:7, 25:9 92:16 warfare [1] - 24:3 wondering [1] - 66:2 variety [2] - 23:13, 82:18 wariness [8] - 8:10, words [8] - 6:10, 8:28, various [20] - 2:24, 9:14, 12:11, 15:19, 31:9, 8:29, 36:17, 75:7, 75:9, 21:7, 23:7, 24:9, 27:24, 73:10, 73:13, 73:15, 75:10, 88:5 30:1, 33:19, 39:13, 80:19 wore [1] - 25:15 42:7, 44:11, 51:8, warning [1] - 65:22 Workers' [2] - 32:15, 55:22, 57:15, 66:8, wary [4] - 14:17, 14:23, 32:20 66:18, 70:12, 70:20, 15:11, 45:30 works [4] - 3:4, 37:19, 89:24 WAS [5] - 2:1, 41:19, 37:28, 63:10 vehicle [6] - 7:21, 48:17, 63:15, 83:25, 91:8 world [4] - 42:25, 44:20, 48:23, 55:26, 58:12 wash [2] - 62:9, 62:11 45:9, 66:13 vehicles [6] - 10:8, 48:27, washing [1] - 94:20 worries [1] - 12:24 56:7, 58:10, 58:11, watch [8] - 9:30, 22:1, worry [3] - 12:20, 59:16, 59:28 22:4, 22:9, 22:12, 59:17 veracity [2] - 65:28, 68:17 22:16, 24:4, 25:18 worth [3] - 66:29, 66:30, verifiable [1] - 49:16 watching [2] - 60:18, 76:26 versa [1] - 80:27 60:19 Wright [1] - 42:12 versions [1] - 70:12 watchtowers [2] - 9:28, wringing [1] - 94:21 vetted [1] - 53:7 56:18 write [14] - 3:18, 5:11, vice [1] - 80:27 waved [2] - 30:9, 30:10 13:24, 13:27, 15:30, victims [1] - 28:21 wavelengths [3] - 23:18, 20:23, 84:15, 86:18, video [2] - 25:14, 25:17 23:20, 23:23 86:22, 86:26, 87:30, view [9] - 8:2, 8:20, waves [1] - 23:17 89:28, 90:11 28:25, 36:6, 36:7, ways [4] - 22:25, 25:17, writer [1] - 2:24 45:14, 46:24, 46:25, 35:23, 73:21 writing [8] - 21:10, 69:26, 47:19 weaknesses [2] - 42:30 85:17, 85:25, 85:26, viewing [1] - 56:20 wealth [1] - 70:30 86:24, 90:2, 93:8 vigorous [7] - 6:30, 7:1, week [3] - 12:9, 52:28, written [15] - 2:24, 3:12, 7:17, 8:4, 9:25, 10:12, 53:9 14:1, 27:1, 43:12, 44:9, 32:28 weeks [1] - 92:4 67:25, 67:27, 82:5, village [1] - 48:15 weigh [3] - 43:6, 43:22, 85:5, 85:13, 87:1, 88:4, violence [4] - 6:26, 7:5, 71:5 88:5, 88:28 20:28, 21:6 well-informed [2] - 26:29, wrote [11] - 3:6, 5:7, 6:22, violent [1] - 34:24 27:10 24:18, 27:13, 64:28, VIP [1] - 55:15 WENT [1] - 96:26 65:14, 86:30, 88:13, virtual [1] - 61:27 Weston [1] - 69:30 90:12, 95:5 virtually [5] - 10:16, whatsoever [1] - 88:24 54:29, 55:5, 60:13, whereas [3] - 27:10, Y 62:30 38:12, 55:27 visible [3] - 9:8, 10:9, white [3] - 27:23, 28:13, Yard [4] - 3:20, 4:10, 6:1, 22:4 29:3 94:1 vision [3] - 56:21, 56:27, whole [9] - 9:5, 9:27, year [2] - 2:11, 87:4 56:30 15:28, 31:9, 36:9, 43:1, years [22] - 2:16, 2:19, visit [2] - 2:10, 22:11 43:3, 59:6, 70:16 2:26, 3:23, 17:22, visited [3] - 22:26, 61:12, wickedly [1] - 30:23 22:27, 34:26, 35:13, 62:16 widely [3] - 27:4, 67:4, 41:13, 63:6, 63:20, vital [3] - 70:5, 71:16, 67:9 70:12, 74:12, 76:23, 71:21 widespread [2] - 36:8, 78:20, 84:8, 84:9, vividly [6] - 16:30, 17:25, 66:20 84:13, 86:25, 87:5,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.