Unto the Ansteorran College of Heralds does Perronnelle Charrette de La Tour du Pin, Retiarius Pursuivant, make most courteous greetings.
For information on commentary submission formats or to receive a copy of the collated commentary, you can contact me at:
Charlene Charette
15910 Valverde Drive, Houston, TX 77083
281/277-4055 (11am-10pm) [email protected]
Commenters for this issue:
Da'ud ibn Auda - al-Jamal Herald
Gawain of Miskbridge - Green Anchor Herald
Steppes - Present at the commentary session were Borek Vitalievich Volkov, Baroness Adelicia Gilwell, Erc Fitzmungo, Alasdair MacEogan, and Suzanna the Herbalist
Predslava Vydrina (Bjornsborg)
Talan Gwynek - Fause Lozenge
Northkeep
Emerald Keep -Lord Liam MacAoidh, Pursuivant of Emerald Keep; Eoghainn Gill'erne, Deputy Pursuivant of Emerald Keep, and Earl Gerard MacEanruig
Bryn Gwlad - Present were: Sir Conor, Halberd and host; Angus Mac Taggart, incoming Twilight; Mari Elspeth nic Bryan; Catherine Harwell; Daniel de Lincoln, Bordure and clerk (first-person singular comments below are his). Angus checked thru item 9 in the SCA Ordinary - what edition I did not note. I checked the Armorial thru 3/97 for name conflicts.
Stargate - Kathri; François la Flamme; Perronnelle; Geof Weakarm; Caitlin bean Ghearailt; Daibhidh Gilfillan. Conflicts checked against the 12/95 OandA.
1. Annabel Kincaid (Steppes) New Name; New Device
Proposed Blazon: Per pale purpure and gules a weavers knot argent.
Steppes
[Name] Annabel; as cited in Withycombe; Kincaid; as cited in Black's
[Device] No conflicts found
Talan Gwynek
[Name] The cited forms of the surname certainly justify the submitted spelling, but Kynked would certainly go nicely with the knot!
[Device] The blazon is missing an apostrophe: weaver's knot.
Northkeep
[Name] No conflicts.
[Device] No conflicts. Query: Is a weaver's knot a distinct kind of knot?
Emerald Keep
We find no problems with this submission, barring any conflicts.
Bryn Gwlad
No other submissions found under a similar name.
[Name] Forename in Withycombe as stated. The exact spelling of Kincaid is in Black in the grey area (1601-1650), and it's a record of a notary excommunicated soon after 1600, so presumably they were adult at the time.
[Device] This appears to be a photocopy of the Pict Dict's "weaver knot".
Consider Dafydd McOwin (11/92), "Per pall inverted gules, Or, and purpure, a trefoil knot inverted argent", Halvdan Stormulv (9/93), "Azure, a valknut argent", Charles Stewart O'Connor (3/82), "Gules, a knot of four loops and four tassels argent". I think the first is clear, and the other two extremely clear. CDs amongst knots is a complex subject, but it looks like named knots (unlike animal parts nowed) often get CDs for type, but not necessarily for orientation. See Laurel precedents, all s.v. knots, all Bruce Drac. prec. except the last: Ingrid the Crafty, May 1993, Middle acc.; Rowan O Curry, August 1993, Atenveldt acc.; Beornheard of Wearmouth, August 1993; Order of the Cavendish Knot (Kingdom of the Middle, returns), August 1993; Halldsr Skaptason, 1/91, Caid acc., Da'ud 1.1 acc. Stargate
[Device] No conflicts found.
2. Borek Vitalievich Volkov (Steppes)
New Device; Name Registered 03/97
Proposed Blazon: Azure a wolf rampant argent overall a dance or.
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Device] Here, let me be one of the first to say it: "Roadkill!" Now, having said that, I do not believe that it is a reason for return and, in fact, this device is closer to period style than many in the SCA which have an animate charge as the overall charge. (In period arms, when there is an overall charge, that charge is by far most frequently an ordinary.)
Steppes
[Device] No conflicts found.
Talan Gwynek
[Device] The Dictionary of British Arms (I:224) has Edmond Hardres, Gules, a lion rampant argent surmounted by a chevron or. Ibid. (I:216) has Playstowe, Gules, a lion rampant argent surmounted by two bars or. And on p. 226 it has Prall, Vert, a stag salient surmounted by a fess embattled-counterembattled argent. These are by no means the only examples, and there are even more with surmounting bends. I didn't find an example with a dance, though there was one with a fess engrailed, but I see no problem with this design.
Northkeep
[Device] No conflicts.
Emerald Keep
[Device] We find no problems with this entry, barring any conflicts. The dance overall was quite acceptable in medieval heraldry.
Bryn Gwlad
Name reg. 3/97 as stated. No other submissions found.
[Device] My opinion: an animate charge with an ordinary overall - huzzah!! Stargate
Name registered as cited.
[Device] No conflicts found.
3. Diana of Viroconium (Rivertree)
New Name
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Name] The submitter has only documented "Diana" as the name of a goddess. Fortunately for the submitter, Withycombe, p. 83, notes it as a given name in the English Renaissance, and dates at least one example to 1580. (Of course, this doesn't match well with the byname, especially considering that Viroconium was abandoned some 1,000 years before Diana came to be used in England as a name. This may be a problem.)
Gawain Miskbridge
[Name] 'Tis is shame to have that intrusive "of" between two Latin name elements. I suspect, though, that this name is formed correctly for neither a late Romano-British name nor any other single sort.
Steppes
[Name] Viroconium; "The Times Concise Atlas of World History (revised)", p. 35, map 3 shows viroconium, which it says is the modern Viroxter, on a map labeled "The Roman Empire AD 14- 280"
Talan Gwynek
[Name] Reaney & Wilson (xl) have a 1256 English citation of Diana, but this is the earliest example that I've seen anywhere. In particular, I can find no evidence that the name was used in Roman Britain. This is a problem, since Viroconium is the Roman name of what is now Wroxeter (and was already Rochecestre in Domesday Book). I think that we need some evidence that the name was used for someone besides the goddess at least before the 7th c. or so. The only positive sign that I've found so far is the fact that Solin & Salomies (323) do record Diana and Dianensis as attested Roman cognomina, and of course many cognomina did later become forenames. The locative would be better if it were entirely Latin. A common medieval construction would make it de Viroconio. An adjectival form that might be even better, especially early, is Viroconiensis.
Northkeep [Name] No conflicts. Does not follow standard Roman patrician naming practices, but as submitter does not say she is patrician, may not apply.
Emerald Keep
[Name] We find no problems with this submission, barring any conflicts.
Bryn Gwlad
No other submissions found.
[Name] Documentation as a goddess's name is irrelevant to whether humans bore the name in period. Withycombe, 3rd ed., s.n. itself, p. 83, says "use as a Christian name was a Renaissance fashion ... and it is first found in England in the 16th C.". We can find no support for Viroconium. If it's 6th C. as stated, this is a 1000-year temporal inconsistency in documentation. However, I suspect it's registerable. From the 3/93 Laurel Cover Letter, Bruce Drac.: "Temporal incompatibility is still not sufficient reason for return", but it may be a weirdness, and "any other anomaly in the name may combine to force it to be returned. The greater the temporal divide, the greater the anomaly: a given name and byname whose spellings are documented within, say, a century of each other will probably be all right, but a three-century divide is pushing it.".
Stargate
[Name] No help with our resources.
4. Eleanor Taylor (Steppes)
New Name; New Device
Proposed Blazon: Checky vert and argent a flamingo proper.
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Device] Presumably a flamingo has a "widely understood default coloration" which allows us to blazon it as "proper". Is there anyone here who doesn't believe a "flamingo proper" is mostly pink? The flamingo's posture needs to be blazoned. It appears to be either close contourny, or, if it considered to be a type of heron, in its vigilance contourny.
Gawain Miskbridge
[Name] I wonder if the client is aware that women did not typically assume their husband's surname in our period. If Eleanor and Thomas are brother and sister, this comment doesn't apply. [Device] I know of no default posture for a flamingo, but this is probably as appropriate as any. It is, however, facing backwards, so will have to be blazoned as contourny.
Steppes
[Name] Eleanor; as cited. Taylor; as cited.
[Device] No conflicts found.
Talan Gwynek
[Device] The flamingo is contourny.
Northkeep
[Name] No conflicts.
[Device] No conflicts. Would advise submitter to draw charge larger.
Emerald Keep
[Device] A flamingo proper could conceivably be period (some Europeans did make it to Africa).
Bryn Gwlad
No other submissions found.
[Name] ("Eleanor Taylor / sends up a name and device via Borek to us / Don't make a fuss" - verse 1, "Ansteorran Heralds", by the Betyls (in that spelling from 1248; see Reaney & Wilson s.n. Beetell et al))
The documentation is at best misleading. The 1122 date is for Eleanor of Aquitaine, and she was not England for about 30 years. Withycombe does seem to date it in this spelling to the 12th or 13th C. in England. Taylor is indeed found s.n. itself in R&W ... but that spelling is not dated at all there! The citation is "c1180", which is CIRCA (about) 1180, and is for Taylur.
However, Mari Elspeth nic Bryan says that she found Taylor in that spelling in period, in Gray, Irvine and J. E. Gethyn-Jones, editors. "The Registers of the Church of St. Mary, Dymock, 1538- 1790 (Baptisms and burials 1538-1788; Marriages 1538-1790)". Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society, Records Section. "Issued 1960. This book is a transcription of parish registers at St. Mary, Dymock and is an excellent source for in-period spelling variations." She found sixteen distinct people with the surname spelled Taylor between 1540 and 1554 (including Elysabethe Taylor). - BTW, it looks like wives there and then had the same surnames as their husbands. [Device] This is probably 2 CDs (field, orientation) from Purina Flamingo Chow. Other associations that came to mind were Miami Vice (two people independently!), Taco Cabana, ...
Only five pieces of armory have been registered using flamingos, all proper. The latest was Grazia Geralda Loviza de Navarra (1/91, Middle, badge); it was there blazoned "a pink flamingo". It is not in the Pict Dict 2nd ed.
I've talked to Baroness Kay of Triasterium in the Middle, who has the World Book Encyclopedia (Field Enterprises Educational Corp., 1964, vol. 7, p. 200). The Greeks and Romans said the flamingo was the mate of the phoenix (and Romans ate flamingo tongues, which are large and fleshy, as a delicacy). Early Christians saw it as a symbol of resurrection and immortality, so it seems a compatible medieval charge. However, the Phoenicopteridae have a variety of proper colors. The American flamingo, P. ruber, is pink, but others range from white to scarlet.
The 10/95 LoAR cover letter precedent covers BROWN animals being called "proper", and adds "This precedent does not, however, loosen the ban on 'Linnaean proper' (Cover Letter, May 13, 1991); proper tinctures for flora and fauna which require the Linnaean genus and species to know how to color them. ..." So we can't specify "a flamingo (P. ruber) proper", and we can't substitute a heraldic tincture.
Yet, if you saw "a flamingo proper", what tincture would YOU assume? It's like "a tomato proper": people think of a wide and squat red fruit, though small spheres (cherry tomatoes) and yellow, green, and mottled tomatoes exist. I suspect "an apple proper" is gules leaved vert, though I don't have that appendix of the rules to check.
I think this is a judgment call.
Stargate
[Device] We suggest the submitter draw the flamingo larger in the future. Looking at the OandA it appears that flamingoes have been blazoned both as "proper" and as "pink". We suggest blazoning it as "pink" to avoid confusion. Also, this bird is contourny. Reblazon: Checky vert and argent a pink flamingo contourny. No conflicts found.
5. Erika Arenvaldsdochter (Raven's Fort)
New Badge; Name Registered 08/88
Proposed Blazon: (Fieldless) a pile sable throughout charged with a labrys or.
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Badge] RfS VIII.5., regarding the style of fieldless badges, notes specifically that "Since there is no field in such a design, it may not use charges that rely on the edges of the field to define their shape, such as bordures and orles, nor to cut off their ends, such as ordinaries or charges throughout." This badge attempts not only to use an ordinary (the pile), but specifically blazons it as throughout. I am afraid that this must be returned.
Gawain Miskbridge
[Badge] A charge issuant from the edge of the field, such as a pile, just doesn't work on a fieldless badge. See rule VIII.5.
Steppes
Name registered as cited.
[Badge] We do not think it is possible to have a fieldless badge with a pile throughout. If the badge is fieldless, then the pile is throughout what?
Talan Gwynek
[Badge] It's rather difficult to have a charge throughout on an unbounded background! In fact the underlying charge would have to be a pile couped, which would cut it off horizontally at the top. Morgan O'Daire has an 11/96 badge Three piles couped inverted in point within and conjoined to an annulet argent, so the free-standing pile is probably allowable in principle. However, when drawn correctly it will be a slender isosceles triangle inverted, which is not uncommon as an early shield shape. This badge will therefore in fact be Sable, a labrys (throughout?) or and will have to be submitted as fielded armory. Unfortunately, as such it conflicts with Sean Ruabarua MacGillaphaidraic, whose 2/75 arms were reblazoned 7/96 as Vert, an axe or. (This came up in a conversation with Laurel, who remembers correcting the original blazon of an axe or bearded gules; it was based on a misunderstanding of bearded as applied to axes. Apparently the axe is distilling a small drop of blood.) This would also conflict with the fieldless badge an axe or.
By the way, the labrys here is drawn more like a generic double-bitted axe; the Minoan ceremonial axe is a bit more stylized.
Northkeep
[Device] Nonperiod style.
Emerald Keep
[Badge] The badge is quite acceptable, but the blazon would be better as: (Fieldless) on a pile sable a double-headed axe Or.
Bryn Gwlad
Laurel registered the name in August 1988 as stated. Her device was registered June 1989; her badge was registered in March. [Badge] This must be returned for violating RfS VIII.5, "Fieldless Style ... Since there is no field in such a design, it may not use charges that rely on the edges of the field to define their shape, such as bordures and orles, nor to cut off their ends, such as ordinaries or charges throughout."
I would also suggest not drawing an axe to touch the edges of an ordinary; I'm not sure how to blazon that.
Stargate
Name registered as cited.
[Badge] A pile cannot be throughout on a fieldless badge. Conflicts not checked.
6. Karl von Augsburg (Steppes)
New Name
Gawain Miskbridge
[Name] Brechenmacher's entry for the surname doesn't actually date this spelling to 1291, but rather cites the name "Joh[annes] dictus Ougspurger". I don't find anything on "Karl" on p. 103 of either volume of the work.
Steppes
[Name] Karl; as cited; Augsburg; as cited
Talan Gwynek
[Name] The documentation for the locative is cited inaccurately. Brechenmacher's 1291 citation s.n. Augsburg(er) is for Joh. dictus Ougspurger, so in fact it's incorrect (and misleading) to say that he dates Augsburg to 1291. The documentation for the forename is simply wrong. Brechenmacher's article on Karl(e) is on p. 13 of vol. II, and the only citation is for Rud. gen. Karle 1275 'called Karle'; I found nothing relevant at II:103 or I:103, though I could have missed something. (The dates mentioned in the ILoI appear to be those of Charlemagne's reign.)
However, Ougspurg is simply a dialect variant of Augsburg, and the name should be just fine.
Northkeep
[Name] No conflicts.
Emerald Keep [Name] While mention was made of the "von" possibly suggesting presumptive usage, the town of Augsburg would be a sufficiently narrow field to allow for this person being a "person" of (from) Augsburg. If the CoH feels that it would be better, then they could substitute the word "vom" (from).
Bryn Gwlad
No other submissions found.
[Name] I suppose regnal dates for Karl der Grosse (modulo accents; alias Charlemagne) are enough. Hans Bahlow, trans. Edda Gentry, 'Dictionary of German Names', (Madison: Max Kade Institute, 1993, ISBN 0-924119-35-7), says Karl "was popular with royal and noble families, but never with the common people in the Middle Ages". Augsburg is in southern Bavaria near Munich; I think the Augsburg Confession is in period. As I recall, "von" being restricted to nobility is a modern practice, and its use is pretty standard in the SCA. Bahlow doesn't seem to cover "von" names.
7. Laurence Ragan Ruthven (Raven's Fort)
New Name; New Device
Proposed Blazon: Argent a raven displayed in dexter talon a feather and in sinister talon a thistle sable.
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Name] The early dates of the various name elements (12th century) are not particularly helpful, since we don't find double given names in England - even very rarely - until the 16th Century.
[Device] The raven here (though how one is to tell it is a "raven" and not just a generic "bird" I do not know. It has none of the defining characteristics of a "raven" beyond its tincture, and in heraldry, any charge can be sable) is not truly displayed, since its head is pointed to chief, rather than facing either dexter or sinister. Indeed, if I had to define a posture for it, I would have to say that it is more migrant affronty or some such.
However, the precise blazoning of the bird's posture is moot, since there is a conflict with Germany, Or, an eagle displayed sable. There is a CD for the change to field tincture, but Laurel has not been granting a CD between different types of birds in identical postures, and the "raven" here is functionally identical to displayed. See, e.g., LoAR July 1996, p. 20; LoAR September 1996, p. 16; October 1996, p. 10 (falcon vs. raven). "Prior Laurel precedent gives no difference for bird type when the birds are in identical postures." (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR February 1997, p. 23) Further, there are Laurel precedents against granting a CD between a specific type of bird and a generic bird: "It was felt that we could not in good conscience grant a CVD for the difference between a generic bird and an eagle." (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR 4/91 p. 11). There is also a conflict with Prussia. "Conflict with Prussia, Argent, an eagle displayed sable crowned Or: there is a CD for the number of birds, but there is nothing for the difference between displayed eagles and displayed ravens, and there is nothing for the crown." (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR December 1996, p. 13) Here, there is not even the CD for the number of birds, and the feather and thistle flower, as maintained charges, do not count for difference.
Gawain Miskbridge
[Name] I can't find "Ragan" on the cited page of Withycombe, nor indeed anywhere in the "R"'s.
[Device] A displayed bird should have its head facing to dexter unless otherwise blazoned. This one seems to be looking up. The displayed posture is well designed to fill up an escutcheon shape. Why is this one drawn in such a way as NOT to do so? Of course it conflicts with "Argent, an eagle sable".
Steppes
[Name] Laurence; in Withycombe as cited. Ragan; Ononmasticon Anglo-Saxonicum (Searle), pp. 396 and 394 reference Forstermann Altdeutsches Namenbuch, Nurdhausen 1856-72. Name dated to 1010. While found in Withycombe on the page cited, we should note that the name is given under the entries "Reynard" and "Reynold". Ruthven; Black's Surnames of Scotland, p 706, documented to 1600.
[Device] With all of the objects the same color, it is felt that the charges will lose identifiability. Also the raven is seen from the belly side with the head facing the top of the page. If this is the position the submitter wants then it will have to be blazoned and I do not know what the position should be called.
Talan Gwynek
[Name] Withycombe (252) makes no mention of any name Ragan; s.n. Reynard she mentions Ragan- as a name element, namely, the prototheme of Old Germanic Raganhard. This prototheme is seen almost free-standing in the Continental Germanic pet forms Raganus, Rageno, etc. given by Morlet (I:186a). These citations don't justify Ragan, however, especially not in the context of this name. First, they're all from the 10th c. or earlier, while double given names in English are a 16th c. phenomenon (and rare until even later). Secondly, it appears that names of this type appear with an ending, either Latin -us or Germanic -o. Thirdly, in England the name would have had to be introduced by the Normans, in whose mouths it would already have lost the g (just as it did in Old French Renart, from Raganhard). I see no choice but to drop the Ragan.
The rest of the name isn't bad. Black s.n. Ruthven has Ruthuen 1563, which justifies the modern spelling. (However, it seems very unlikely on the basis of Black's (and other) citations that Ruthven is an 11th c. form; I suspect that the Dictionary of Scottish History, like most history references, uses modern forms.) Ibid. s.n. Freelove has Laurence Freluf 1382; since this is a standard modern spelling, I see no reason at all to doubt that Laurence Ruthven is a perfectly good 16th c. Scottish name.
[Device] This is not in any heraldic sense a raven displayed. It looks more like a stylized tree with legs or a ventral view of a mutant lizard. The fact that it is apparently ululant affronty completes the camouflage.
Northkeep
[Name] Ruthven is also found page 706 of Blacks "The Surnames of Scotland" dating from 1127.
[Device] Charge is unrecognizable. Does this constitute a conflict with the badge of the sable thistle of Ansteorra? Head position of Raven is indicating "volant" instead of "displayed".
Emerald Keep
We find no problems with this submission, barring any conflicts.
Bryn Gwlad
[Name] When citing a name, it is best to say what header name it's under, so people with different editions can find it. Laurence is not dated to 1130 as stated: that fellow's "real name was the Irish Lorcan". However, it is dated to 1273 in that spelling. Ruthven can be found in Black, p. 706, s.n. itself, with the spellings Ruthvyn 1435 and de Ruthven 1211. The name was extinguished by an act of the Scots parliament in 1600 (!). The Ragan "documentation" omits a crucial fact: Withycombe, s.n. Reynard, begins "Old German Raganhard compound of ragan 'counsel', 'might', and hardu 'hard'". (Hmm, etymologically equivalent to Hardrada!) So Ragan is a protheme, and is not here documented as an independent name. Unless Talan can save it, it has to be dropped (which would be a benefit, since double given names are extremely rare in period England).
[Device] Consider the Holy Roman Empire, "Or, a double-headed eagle displayed sable (sometimes crowned, sometimes also nimbed Or)". There is one CD for the field.
The feather, thistle, crown, and nimbus are maintained charges not worth a CD. Brayden Avenel Durrant, July 1992 LoAR, Calontir acceptances, in Bruce Drac. prec. s.v. Blazon; 10/96 LoAR Cover Letter.
Changes to the head position (a head facing to chief here, the standard being to dexter) are not a CD: RfS X.4.h.
Bird type may be worth a CD, except when it isn't! Bruce Drac. prec., s.v. "Bird - Dove", Cecilia MacInnes, 9/92 LoAR, Ansteorran returns, refused a CD for eagle close versus dove close. However, in the 11/92 LoAR, Sveyn Egilsson, An Tir acceptances, Bruce GAVE a CD for swan displayed versus other unstated bird types. Stanwulf the Stern, August 1993 LoAR, Atlantia returns, in Bruce Drac. prec., s.v. "Bird - Eagle and Falcon", gave no CD for owl versus eagle, calling them both raptors. I think a raven is a raptor.
In Da'ud precedents 2.1, s.v. Bird, 4/94 LoAR, Tempio, "As we do not grant a [type] CD between a generic bird and any other specific bird ...". The identifying marks of a raven are the head shape (here basically invisible), the beak shape (ditto), and hairy feathers (Pict Dict, s.v. Crow; they are not shown here).
I'd blazon it a generic bird and return it for conflict. Otherwise, it might be called a raptor and similarly returned. I'd advise the submitter, if they resub something similar, to draw more usual displayed wings (I don't think they usually went up that high), and more rounded feather tips and shorter body, and drop the thistle and feather. Better yet, in period ravens were close.
Stargate
[Device] The raven needs to be drawn in a more heraldic position. Consider the following conflicts: Iain Gilfillan (SCA, '89), Argent, a raven displayed sable between four paw prints gules; Manfred, King of Sicily, Argent, an eagle displayed sable; Prussia, Argent, an eagle displayed sable crowned Or.
8. Miriam of Bristol (Bryn Gwlad)
Resub. Device; Name Registered 05/95
Proposed Blazon: Gules a Norwegian Elkhound statant and on a chief argent two estoiles gules.
Steppes
Name registered as cited.
[Device] No conflicts found.
Talan Gwynek
[Device] Period armory uses only a few general types of dog, and this isn't one of them. Probably the simplest solution is to blazon this a hound.
Northkeep
[Device] Suggested reblazon as Gules a Norwegian Elkhound statant argent and on a chief two estoiles counterchanged. Otherwise no conflicts.
Emerald Keep [Device] We find no problems with this submission, barring any conflicts.
Bryn Gwlad
Name registered, and previous device returned, as stated.
[Device] This would be the first Norwegian elkhound registered in the SCA. By RfS VI.4, we need to know if they're a period breed. Asterisk says documentation is in Miriam's file.
Stargate
Name registered as cited.
[Device] The submitter has cleared the original conflict. No conflicts found.
9. Mitchell of Middleford (Steppes)
New Name; New Device
Proposed Blazon: Ermine on a bend purpure three mullets of four points or. S.C. Note: The bend is supposed to be purpure. The bend on the picture shows it as a pinkish red.
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Name] The fact that Mitchell is the submitter's surname doesn't help at all; the Legal Name Allowance would allow him to use Mitchell only as a surname. The documentation, however, appears to be quite sufficient to demonstrate Mitchell's use as a given.
[Device] I suspect the "pinkish red" color on the large emblazon is a result of the reproduction process. As one of the heralds consulted, I know that the submitter wants the bend to be purpure here. The fact that the mullets are palewise on the bend needs to be specifically blazoned. "Charges, whether placed in or on an Ordinary, always incline in the direction of such Ordinary." John E. Cussans, Handbook of Heraldry, 1882, p. 160
Gawain Miskbridge
[Name] The fact that the client's surname is Mitchell is irrelevant; the Mundane Name Allowance only applies to elements used the same way in both names.
[Device] It's rare to have to suggest that fewer semy charges be drawn.
Steppes [Name] Mitchell; as cited. Bardsley's Dictionary of English and Welsh Surnames, p. 536, documents its use as a surname. Reaney's DBS 1st ed., p. 223. cites the same Mitchell M'Brair. This is also the submitter's first name and he has supplied a copy of his drivers license as supporting documentation. of Middleford; as cited. The submitter was originally from the Shire of Middleford.
[Device] I need to put fewer ermine on his field (Borek). No conflicts found.
Talan Gwynek
[Device] The mullets are palewise, a fact that we normally blazon.
Northkeep
[Name] No conflict. A second example of Mitchell as a forename is on page 602-603 of Blacks "The Surnames of Scotland".
Emerald Keep
[Device] The blazon should read: "...mullets of four points palewise Or."
Bryn Gwlad
[Name] Given name indeed dated to 1490 as a given name in this spelling. "of Middleford" and registering via the Steppes? Makes sense, actually. People really didn't get bynames based on the place they were living when they were there. A Northumbrian living in Northumbria wouldn't be called "of Northumbria".
[Device] The mullets are palewise. Fewer and smaller ermine spots would be better. I worried about the pink / purple problem on the ILoI. Asterisk says that Borek sent in a properly-colored form.
Stargate
[Device] No conflicts found.
10. Rivertree, Shire of (Rivertree)
New Name; New Device
Proposed Blazon: Argent a wavy chevron azure between two oaks proper and a laurel wreath vert.
Da'ud ibn Auda [Name] Oh, dear. Oh, dear. Oh, dear.
"Rivertree is a made up name using river and tree." Ah, yes, the "Dictionary School" of name construction. "Submitted as Eirik Silverferret, the existence of Silver and Ferret as period surnames, as noted in the LoI, no more justifies Silverferret than the existence of Smithand Jones justifies Smithjones." (Da'ud ibn Auda, LoAR September 1994, p. 3) Let's see, "goblet" and "griffin" are period words, and even have decent alliteration. Can we do the Barony of Gobletgriffin? Umm, no.
Further, and as in my facetious example just above, the documentation does not support the word order. Of the six examples cited in the LoI, four have the "water" last: Bridgeford, Rockford, Woodford, and Swinbrook. The other two, Springfield and Waterfield, have as their second element the very common English placename element "field". Of all the examples given, only Woodford appears to come at all close to at least the idea of what the shire is trying to register. (At least in the modern senses of the words; I do not know the derivation of Waterfield; it actually may have nothing to do with "water" at all.) Based on the examples given, however, I have to disagree that they, as the LoI states, use "the same construction as Rivertree". The examples given would certainly support, for example, Oakford, or possibly even Treeford. But I fail to find any support for Rivertree here. Sorry.
Gawain Miskbridge
[Name] OK, they have shown that English place names were sometimes compounded of two nouns. That doesn't mean that any two nouns may be so used. They should have noticed that the cited examples all make sense as compounds: ford by the bridge, field with a spring, ford by a rock, ford by a wood, pig brook, swampy field (or field with good water). A rivertree is what, a tree by a river? A river by a tree? What?
[Device] The chevron needs to enroll in the Charles Atlas course.
Steppes
[Name] Eckwalls British Place Names, p. 389, shows a "river" in Kent and Sussex. We also find "Riverhead" and "Greenoak" which would tend to indicate that this construction is consistent with English naming practices. Mills, A Dictionary of English Place Names, p. 55, also shows "Brookwood", which also supports this construction.
[Device] We suggest a reblazon: "Argent, a chevron wavy azure, two oaks proper and a laurels wreath vert." Three secondaries would normally be positioned two and one. A chevron can be wavy but a wavy chevron is not sure that it is a chevron.
Talan Gwynek
[Name] This name has already been given a once-over and found wanting. I think that Harpy discussed it either on the Rialto or on alt.heraldry.sca, and I know that it came to the Academy of S. Gabriel. Here's the S. Gabriel Final Report, very slightly reformatted for greater legibility. (The original was sent as e-mail.) I've also corrected a couple of minor typos.
Greetings,
Here's the information we found on placenames which use river and tree in them.
Tree is a common element in English place-names. It appears in a variety of forms, as in the towns Treborough, Treeton, Treyford, Trimdon, and Trowbridge. It's also found in connection with descriptive words (Fairtree, Greytree), words denoting a number (Aintree, Manningtree from ain or 'one' and manig or 'many'), and names or titles for people (Bishopstrow, Bartestree). (1)
River is not generally found as an element in English place-names. It's a French word which wasn't used in English until after the Norman Conquest. River is used as a descriptive word (so that we have River Thames, Avon River, and so on) but there are no examples of places which are called Thamesriver or Avonriver. We did find one example of a town called River, (2), but based on our knowledge of historical names, this doesn't mean that there would likely be a Treeriver.
There are many Old English words for bodies of water, including broc, rið, stream, wæter, and lacu. It would be possible to use a place-name which includes one of these words instead of river.
We can suggest a couple of specific ideas:
The only actual name we found which comes close to your meaning is Trowell, which is translated as 'tree stream'. (2)
Many towns are followed by the designation -on-
Arval D'Espas Nord, Talan Gwynek, Tangwystl verch Morgant Glasvryn, and Walraven van Nijmege contributed to this letter.
We hope this has been helpful, and that we can continue to assist you.
In service,
Alan Fairfax
Academy of S. Gabriel
(1) Smith, A.H. "English Place-Name Elements"
(2) Ekwall, E. "The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Place-names." I would revise this slightly were I writing it now, but it's substantially correct. As far as the present submission goes, there are two important points. First, river is very rare as an English place-name element; this makes it especially important to follow period usage. (In other words, using a rare element in an unattested way can be thought of as two 'weirdnesses'; using a common element in an unattested way is often much more justifiable.) And secondly, it isn't the sort of element that was normally used to modify Old English treow 'tree'. River certainly does not describe the tree itself in the way that words meaning 'grey', 'fair', 'multi-colored', 'long', and 'red' do. It isn't a number word. It isn't a word used to designate a person, like words meaning 'bishop' and 'churl'. (In all of these I'm using actual examples from Smith.) Smith does note that certain types of personal names were used in this way, but these were Old English forenames, probably the name of the local hundred-man or law-man of the assembly. (This is especially likely to be true in the case of names of hundreds.) Rivere could in fact be the locative surname (from a place in France) of a post-Conquest landholder, and such names do appear as affixes, as in Newton Reigny - held by William de Reigny in 1185 - but that's a usage quite different from the one under consideration here. Still, it could be used to justify a name with the desired elements. Ekwall has Treeton in Yorkshire West Riding (Treton 1204). Reaney & Wilson s.n. Rivers have Gozelinus Riueire or Riuere in Domesday Book and Walter de la Rivere c.1150 (in Yorkshire, no less!). I think that this is sufficient to justify Treton Rivere as a medieval English place-name. This isn't quite as good as looks, because in most names of this type the 'unadorned' place-name is a common one, so that the affix may actually have been necessary to distinguish the place from others of the same name. There seems to be only one Treeton, however. Still, I think it far better than Rivertree and well within SCA limits of acceptability. In other words, I'd have had no serious qualms about registering it. I wouldn't have registered Rivertree.
[Device] The arms are Argent, a chevron wavy azure between two oak trees proper and a laurel wreath vert. The chevron could stand to be more substantial and to wave more regularly.
Northkeep
[Name] Are there other examples of English placenames that combine a geographic feature with a plant?
[Device] Possible conflict with Eadmond of Pendleswood, Argent a chevron azure between three oak trees eradicated sable fructed argent. Second possible conflict with Thomas of the Pines, Argent a chevron azure between three pine trees sable.
Emerald Keep
[Device] The blazon should read: "Argent a chevron wavy azure between two oak trees acorned proper and a laurel wreath vert".
Bryn Gwlad
It's actually an appeal for the name and a resub for the device. The branch name was returned 4/95 by kingdom for lack of documentation, and the device was pended for lack of a name. [Name] We find the evidence unconvincing: neither River nor Tree are used in any name presented. Can we say that the water element coming first is supported by Springafelda, a treey element from Wodeford, and flowing water from Suinbroc?
Stargate resub; return, no commentary printed - went w/star's suggestion, no mention of wavy
[Name] This name was originally returned at Kingdom 04/95.
[Device] The device was returned 04/95 due to lack of a name. At that time Star suggested adding another tree for better balance (they originally had one in chief). The comments for this Gazette (02/95) were never printed; therefore, the group probably never saw the original comments about drawing the wavy better. Conflicts not checked.
11. Tanwen Aneira MacFarlane (Steppes)
New Name; New Device
Proposed Blazon: Gules a base rayonny a rose attired of two leaves bendwise sinister argent.
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Name] I can't see that MacFarlane (or McFarlane, either) could possibly be a problem. I found at least 16 different MacFarlane's registered in the A&O, the most recent, Douglas Lachlan MacFarlane, in January 1997.
[Device] This rose has no antlers! (That's what attires are, you know.) Standard blazon grammar would have us place the primary charge first, the peripheral last. Suggested blazon fu: Gules, a rose leaved [in bend sinister] and a base rayonny argent. I am not at all certain that the orientation of the leaves needs to be specified.
Gawain Miskbridge
[Name] Gruffudd's entries for "Tanwen" and "Aneira" are both in the form he uses for modern made-up names.
[Device] Standard SCA blazon names the primary charge first: "Gules, an unnecessarily fussy rose and a base rayonny argent".
Steppes [Name] Tanwen; as cited. No date is given. Aneira; as cited. No date is given. For the record, Withycombe, p. 24, shows Aneirin as a male name. MacFarlane; Black's Surnames of Scotland, cites M'Farlane dated to 1577, and MacFarlane to 1395. We find this construction plausible.
Talan Gwynek
[Name] Gruffudd gives Tanwen without a citation, in the format that generally indicates a modern name. Harpy's Compleat Anachronist mentions a name Tonwen, however. Aneira is another one that appears in Gruffudd's format for modern names. I've found no evidence that it's period, and despite Gruffudd's etymology I suspect that it may be a modern feminization of the period man's name Aneirin. MacFarlane is in itself certainly registerable on the basis of Duncan filius Malcolm Makfarlane 1395 and Andrew M'Farlane 1577 (Black s.n. Macfarlan). Tonwen MacFarlane would be an improbable but registerable name. (The overall construction would be non-period even if the individual forenames were period, though Laurel would probably still register the name. If the name were wholly Welsh, the construction
[Device] The rose is the primary charge, so it should be mentioned first. The leaves are more than a little strange. I've never seen such an arrangement, and they do somewhat disguise the charge. Attired is probably not the best term to use to describe them, either: it generally refers to a stag's antlers. I can't think of a good blazon - which probably means that the design isn't very heraldic. The best solution would be to eliminate the leaves; on the whole I think that the second best might be just to ignore them: Gules, a rose and a base rayonny argent.
Northkeep
[Name] Macfarlane is found on page 492 of Blacks "The Surnames of Scotland".
[Device] No conflicts.
Emerald Keep
[Name] Without documentation, the consensus is that there is a problem with mixing Welsh (P- Gaelic) and Scots (Q-Gaelic), especially since the two races rarely commingled. If proper documentation of the personal name allowance, then so be it.
[Device] The blazon should read: "Gules a rose leaved of two bendwise sinister and a base rayonny argent."
Bryn Gwlad
[Name] The two given names are not dated in Gruffudd, nor are any people mentioned with them (the submitter didn't say so, tho). Heather Rose Jones, "Names and Naming Practices in the Merioneth Lay Subsidy Roll 1292-3", lists Aneirin, but it's a masculine name, and Welsh didn't feminize names by using "-a".
GGAG is not listed in Jones as a pattern, and I don't think period Welsh had double given names. As well, MacFarlane is Scottish. I ask: what's it doing with Welsh names? They had contact, true, but that doesn't mean they'd mix elements in different languages like that. I'd expect "mac" - > "ap" or something, or perhaps changes to the givens to fit Scots Gaelic.
Reaney and Wilson (3rd ed, p. 291) date Mcpharlane c1385 (Black) s.n. MacFarlan et al, but the Macfail et al entry has M'Phale in 1414, M'Pawle 1490, and Makfaill 1492, so the "ph"<->"f" change looks reasonable to me. I don't think the Modern Name Allowance allows other rules to be broken - specifically, not the rules concerning mixing of languages. The Modern Name Allowance does require documentation.
With unattested elements, unattested construction, and a language mixture, we might want to consider return.
[Device] It's not "attired" = "horned". "Leaved of two leaves in bend sinister"? That seems awkward to me and not period style. My silly mind came up with "debruised of a propeller"! Blazon the primary charge first, BTW.
Stargate
[Name] Macfarlane is found on pg. 226 (under MacFarlan) of Reaney & Wilson, 2nd ed, not dated.
[Device] We believe the position of the leaves should be considered artistic license. Reblazon: Gules a rose leaved and a base rayonny argent. No conflicts found.
12. Thomas Taylor (Steppes)
New Name; New Device
Proposed Blazon: Checky argent and vert a penguin proper.
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Device] The posture of the penguin needs to be blazoned. It appears to be displayed, or perhaps displayed wings inverted. I believe that penguins have a "widely understood default coloration" which would allow them to be blazoned as "proper" in the SCA.
Gawain Miskbridge [Device] Yes, a field parted of a metal and a color is neutral with respect to the Rule of Tincture. No, you can't put a charge which is significantly tinctured of one of those on said field. Not even if you draw a very good outline around it. If he'll go with checky Or and vert, he should be just fine.
Steppes
[Name] Thomas; as cited. Taylor; as cited.
[Device] No conflict found.
Talan Gwynek
[Device] According to the PicDic, the penguin has no default posture. This one is in an awkward hybrid of statant close and statant affronty: the body is affronty, and the head isn't. Since the wings are also raised, this could with a bit of license be blazoned a penguin displayed, though I can't imagine anyone being overjoyed by that choice. Statant affronty facing to dexter wings elevated fesswise is accurate, but I'd really rather not perpetrate such a monstrosity. However, this is a relatively minor problem compared to the fact that the penguin is mostly white on a checky argent and vert field. The emblazon is good enough that this may actually be registerable, but it's going to have to be a judgment call based on the actual colored emblazon.
Northkeep
[Name] No conflicts.
[Device] Charge is not identifiable.
Emerald Keep
[Device] Sorry - a Penguin is definitely not period. When would Europeans have been to Antarctica and returned to tell the tale?
Bryn Gwlad
No other submissions found.
[Name] Thomas is no problem. The 1118 date is the birth of that accursed traitor Thomas Becket, but it occurs in that spelling before and after. Taylor is indeed found s.n. itself in R&W ... but that spelling is not dated at all there! The citation is "c1180", which is CIRCA (about) 1180, and is for Taylur.
However, Mari Elspeth nic Bryan says that she found Taylor in that spelling in period, in Gray, Irvine and J. E. Gethyn-Jones, editors. "The Registers of the Church of St. Mary, Dymock, 1538- 1790 (Baptisms and burials 1538-1788; Marriages 1538-1790)". Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society, Records Section. "Issued 1960. This book is a transcription of parish registers at St. Mary, Dymock and is an excellent source for in-period spelling variations." She found sixteen distinct people with the surname spelled Taylor between 1540 and 1554 (including Elysabethe Taylor). - BTW, it looks like wives there and then had the same surnames as their husbands.
[Device] This is clear of #4, Eleanor Taylor, by change of type of bird, change of posture, and change of tincture.
Pict Dict, 2nd ed., s.v. Penguin: "discovered by Drake in 1578 ... The 'proper' penguin is normally drawn as the Emperor variety, with white belly and black back", which this is. Twenty pieces of armory have been registered with penguins, most recently 2/97.
Stargate
[Device] This device has contrast problems with a mostly white charge on a half-white background. Conflicts not checked.
13. Yasha Ivanovich Romanoff (Steppes)
New Name; New Device
Proposed Blazon: Argent a double headed eagle displayed gules maintaining in each claw an egg and charged on the breast an orthodox cross or in chief a beribboned egg gules charge dwith a mullet of eight points or.
Da'ud ibn Auda
[Name] The surname should be fine, unless (i) one of the Romanovs who ruled Russia was named Yasha Ivanovich, or (ii) it can be demonstrated that the surname Romanov was used only by the ruling family, as was the case with a ruling family of the Holy Roman Empire, the Hohenstaufens.
[Device] Lest anyone should ask: "Only triple-headed eagles are restricted." Wilhelm von Schlüssel, LoAR 30 November 1981, p. 1. Double-headed eagles are fine.
And, yes, this is reminiscent of the achievement of arms of Russia. However, there are more than sufficient differences between this submission and those arms for this to be registrable (field tincture, tincture of primary charge, type of secondary charge, tincture of secondary charge, type and number of tertiary charges, and - though it doesn't count - type and tincture of maintained charges).
Gawain Miskbridge [Name] I am unable to find (Y/I)asha at the cited place, but Superanskaya, Spravochnik Lichnich Imyen Narodov RSFSR, (3rd ed.), p. 546, makes it a diminutive form of "Yakov". The name form: given name, patronymic, surname, is of course standard modern usage, but only came into use very late in period.
[Device] There were certainly Romanovs who weren't members of the Russian royal family, but still, compare the submission to this version of the Imperial arms: "Or, a double headed eagle sable crowned Or [sic] charged on the breast with an escutcheon of the Grand Duchy of Moscow (gules, a horseman contourny argent slaying a dragon sable), maintaining in its claws a scepter and an orb ensigned of a cross, in chief an imperial crown Or [sic] ribboned azure". It's clear on points, but to me still reeks of pretense.
Steppes
[Name] Yasha; as cited. Based on Ioseph. Ivanovich; as cited. Son of Ivan. Romanoff; as cited. The submitter notes that the common spelling is Romanoff but would prefer Romanov.
Predslava Vydrina
On the subject of the New Name/New Device submission of Yasha Ivanovich from Steppes, I would like to offer these comments.
It seems to me that his name violates paragraph 3 of the General Principles of the Rules for Submission: "No submission will be registered that could confuse or offend members of the Society or the general population because it expresses or implies some claim that is not true."
This applies to implicit or explicit claims. The byname "Romanoff" is the name of a family that did exist in period (see provided documentation), but it is also the name of the imperial dynasty of post-period Russia. Because this name is so uniquely associated with the imperial Russian family, I feel the use of this name in the SCA context is presumptuous, and should not be registered (it would be the equivalent of registering a Tudor or a Windsor).
In addition, the "double-headed eagle displayed", it is part of the Imperial Russian arms. It is especially presumptuous when used in conjunction with the byname chosen (Romanoff). The device also seems too "fussy" to me, but I do not feel qualified to comment further on style.
The spelling "Romanoff" with the double F also poses a problem. Although that spelling can be found in non-Russian texts, it does not represent a transliteration or a phonetic transcription of the name. The name in Cyrillic ends in the equivalent of the letter "v" and is pronounced softened to an "f" sound; however, in non-nominative cases, as well as in the feminine form and in the plural, the "v" sound can be clearly heard when the letter is followed by a gender/number/case ending, for instance: Romanova (nom. fem. sing.), Romanovy (nom. plur.), Romanovu (dative masc. sing). Therefore the "-ff" ending does not reflect Russian grammar and/or spelling, even allowing for variations. I recommend that the spelling "Yasha" be changed to "Iasha" as the letter "y" is widely (and usually) used to represent a different letter (and sound) than those which represent the sounds "i" (as in "sEEm") or "ia" (as in "Yard"). The letter usually represented by "y" is not likely to have been used in "Iasha" (nor does Wickenden give a variant of the name "Iasha" beginning with "y").
Talan Gwynek
[Name] In my edition of Paul's dictionary there is one citation for Ivanovich on p.85; it's dated 1386. I see none on p.77, which is near the end of the Gs. And the only 1146 citation seems to be for Ivankovich'. There is a 1551 citation for Romanov syn (which justifies Romanov) on p.199; if there's one on p.155, it's a coïncidence, since that's in the middle of the Ns. I can find no citation for Yasha, which would be listed as Iasha. Certainly it's not on p.76, which is among the Gs. I suspect that it's a diminutive of Iakob, like Iaska 1623-4, but I have no idea whether it's period. (If it is, the spelling Yasha is an acceptable variant. And Romanoff should be an acceptable variant of Romanov as well.)
[Device] It would probably be better to describe the tertiary charge as a Russian Orthodox cross. Someone will probably complain that the held eggs could be drawn to lie on the field, with which they have poor contrast. This, however, shouldn't be a problem. First, a good artist is likely to come up with the submitter's idea of drawing them against the background of the wings. And secondly, as held charges they needn't have good contrast; it's sufficient that they not be invisible.
I consider the beribboned egg more of a problem. In my experience it isn't usual to attach ribbons to eggs, so the object may be a bit hard to identify.
This design is going to raise some hackles, I think. The overall impression is very much of royal armory, with an eagle (almost) ensigned with some sort of elaborate crown, mitre, or what have you. Moreover, there are Brandenberg, Argent, an eagle displayed gules crowned or, and John Milton, Argent, a double-headed eagle displayed gules. Technically neither of these is a conflict: each lacks both the secondary egg and the tertiary cross. And against Russia, Or, a double- headed eagle displayed sable armed crowned and maintaining an orb and sceptre or it is clear by tincture changes, even ignoring the secondary charge. But the combination with Romanoff would definitely have led to this being returned in the bad old days, and even now I'd expect to hear some pretty loud objections from certain commenters. Nevertheless, if it's decided that the beribboned egg is an acceptable charge, I don't see anything in the rules that would permit this to be returned.
Northkeep
[Name] Does Romanoff violate RFS of VI.1?
[Device] Do the arms violate RFS of X1.2?
Emerald Keep [Name] No trouble with the name as offered.
[Device] Our consensus is that it would be difficult for the armiger to be more presumptive, most especially with the chosen surname! While we were unable to find it on the restriction list, as a distinctive badge of the Tsars of Russia, "a Double-Headed Eagle Displayed" should be a forbidden Charge - this form was most identified with the Romanoff Tsarist Dynasty of Russia.
Bryn Gwlad
[Name] While Wickenden is indeed not on the "no photocopy" list, Laurel has said in e-mail that if an author is active in the CoA, she doesn't require photocopies. As well, Wickenden is even more trusted than Tumanovna now. The name style is late period.
[Device] Gwenllian is concerned about appearance of presumption: Romanoff + double-headed eagle + Orthodox cross. Mari is concerned about identifiability of the eggs outside a nest, thought that the thing in chief was a mitre, and thought it was hard to recognize in general. Others had trouble recognizing the eggs, cross, and/or star. I wonder about the reproducibility of this exact positioning of the maintained eggs, and about the complexity (the count is 8, which is borderline).
As for contrast of the maintained charges (they're visually clear only because here they're raised up over the wings), they can break tincture with the field. Bruce Drac. prec. s.v. Contrast, Tanarian Brenaur ferch Owain fab Bran, October 1992 LoAR, Trimaris returns; Phillippa MacCallum, Sept 88; Luke of Caerleon, November 1992 LoAR, pg. 16; Eleri Langdoun, March 1993 LoAR, pg. 23.
Stargate
[Name]
[Device] Conflicts not checked.