Andrew Biemiller Interviewer: Sheldon Stern Date of Interview: May 24, 1979 Location: Washington, D.C

Andrew Biemiller, Oral History Interview – JFK#2, 5/24/1979 Administrative Information Creator: Andrew Biemiller Interviewer: Sheldon Stern Date of Interview: May 24, 1979 Location: Washington, D.C. Length: 69 pages Biographical Note Biemiller, a Representative from Wisconsin from 1945 to 1949 and Director of the AFL- CIO’s Department of Legislation, from 1956 to 1982, discusses the Kennedy and Johnson administrations’ legislative records, particularly on labor issues; specific issues and pieces of legislation; civil rights; and the labor movement’s relationship with the Kennedy and Johnson administrations, among other issues. Access Open. Usage Restrictions According to the deed of gift signed September 23, 1982, copyright of these materials has been assigned to the United States Government. Users of these materials are advised to determine the copyright status of any document from which they wish to publish. 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Transcript of Oral History Interview These electronic documents were created from transcripts available in the research room of the John F. Kennedy Library. The transcripts were scanned using optical character recognition and the resulting text files were proofread against the original transcripts. Some formatting changes were made. Page numbers are noted where they would have occurred at the bottoms of the pages of the original transcripts. If researchers have any concerns about accuracy, they are encouraged to visit the Library and consult the transcripts and the interview recordings. Suggested Citation Andrew Biemiller, recorded interview by Sheldon Stern, May 24, 1979, (page number), John F. Kennedy Library Oral History Program. Andrew Biemiller—JFK#2 Table of Contents Page Topic 16, 43 Appointments to the Kennedy administration 18 Labor movement’s feelings on Lyndon Baines Johnson as vice president 20 Labor movement’s feelings on Robert F. Kennedy as attorney general 22 House rules committee fight 25 1961-’62 education bill 27, 40 John F. Kennedy’s (JFK) relationship with Congress 28 Minimum wage legislation 30 President’s Committee on Equal Employment 31 President’s Advisory Committee on Labor-Management Relations 33 Housing reform 34 Lawrence F. O’Brien and his staff 37, 41, 58 AFL-CIO’s close relations with the Kennedy White House and administration 38 1960 Democratic National Convention 45 Wages and the balance of payments 47 Medicare legislation 51 Civil rights 59 1962 executive order on collection bargaining and organizing by federal employees 60 Trade Expansion Act of 1962 62 Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962 63 Agency for International Development 64 1962 congressional elections 65 Patronage 67, 76, 81 Lyndon Baines Johnson (LBJ) 68 House Education and Labor Committee 71 Speakers of the House 73 Biemiller’s staff and operations 77 JFK versus LBJ in congressional relations 78 JFK’s personality and working style 82 Overall assessment of the Kennedy administration 83 Labor movement’s role in the 1968 presidential primary Second of Two Oral History Interviews with Andrew Biemiller May 24, 1979 Washington, D.C. By Sheldon Stern For the John F. Kennedy Library STERN: Since your original interview covered the period through the election of 1960, why don’t we begin with the period from November up to the inauguration. I’ve got a few questions about that. First, can you tell me what contacts you had with the President-elect [John F. Kennedy] and with the whole operation of setting up the new administration? BIEMILLER: Well we were in constant contact with him. Meany [George Meany] was conducting most of it. And one time when Meany went to Europe he called Jack and said, “Andy can handle everything except the cabinet level.” But anything else I handled at that time. And it was just a good give-and-take all the way. There’s a story right there though that I might as well tell you because it gets back later to the Goldberg matter. Meany wanted Goldberg [Arthur J. Goldberg]. He did not want a labor leader. STERN: That’s interesting. I’ve seen some accounts that he didn’t want Goldberg. BIEMILLER: Yes I know it and as secretary of Labor. He took the position that with the passage of Landrum-Griffin [Labor-Management Reporting and Disclosure Act of 1959] that any labor leader just couldn’t function in that spot. That he would either be, in one sense, going back on his oath of office or, on the other hand, he’d be making so many enemies in the labor movement that he could never come back. Now he had no objection to Goldberg because he didn’t regard Goldberg as a labor leader. He regarded him as a servant of the labor movement, so to speak. But what really happened on it is kind of funny, because this business I’m talking to you about that where he’d put me in charge when he was in Europe. I got a call from Jack Kennedy—I knew it was coming—and I was amazed though at what was on his mind. He said, “Andy, you here are saying that you want to put Willard Wirtz [Willard Wirtz] in as head of the National Labor Board.” I said, “That’s right.” He said, “I can’t have [-16-] two Jews in the leading labor spots in my administration„“ And that’s the tip-off, first tip-off we had firmly that is was Goldberg. I didn’t say another word. I then went on to explain to him that in the first place Willard Wirtz was not a Jew. He was a German all the way. And I discovered in talking on the phone that for some strange reason or other Jack Kennedy and Willard Wirtz had never met. It’s hard to believe with as active as Wirtz was. STERN: Wirtz was a Stevenson [Adlai E. Stevenson] man. BIEMILLER: Exactly. But anyhow but you’d have thought somewhere they’d have met. So we at least got that little thing cleaned up. But it also meant that we knew it was Goldberg. I got home here and the next morning, at an hour that I knew wouldn’t disturb Meany, called him in Brussels and told him. He said, “That’s fine. That’s what I want. Now,” he said, “you get together with Pierre Salinger [Pierre E.G. Salinger]. I’ll be back on such and such a date in December and we’ll work it out. No troubles.” So then I got in touch with Pierre and then ran into a nasty snag. When Meany came back the weather was so bad that he had to get off the boat in Boston and he couldn’t fly down. So he called me collect which he was apologizing for and said, “look you meet this train at such and such an hour. Get the chauffeur and we’ll be there.” And he said, “I don’t want anybody there. I don’t want anybody to know I’m coming back.” By arrangement with Al Zack [Albert J. Zack], our P.R. guy, I told him off the record. He said, “I don’t want to know.” I said, “Okay you don’t know. Nobody knows that I’m handling this.” So it worked all right. And the very next morning Goldberg and Meany went together to Jack’s house in Georgetown but they went in the alley. The guys on the outside never dreamt that they do that. They couldn’t figure out what was happening. Then all of a sudden the door opens and out comes Jack Kennedy, Arthur Goldberg, and George Meany announcing that Goldberg was the secretary of labor. It took a lot of people by surprise because, as you say, there were some people who thought Meany didn’t want Goldberg. I’m not saying that he was necessarily his first choice but he had no objection to him. STERN: Right. I see. There’s some reports that he submitted a list of elected union officials. That he preferred elected union officials. BIEMILLER: He did not want any. I talked with him many times on that. Now as I said he told me I couldn’t verify that’s one he was going to do himself. I worked on things like, for example, Esther Peterson [Esther E. Peterson] as head of the women’s bureau [assistant to the secretary for women’s affairs] at that time. The only [-17-] other order I got from him that he wanted understood was that I was not to take a position in the Kennedy Administration. He wanted me staying in the AF of L-CIO and that Nelson Cruikshank [Nelson H. Cruikshank], our social security guy, was not to take a position unless they offered him the job of administrator of social security.

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